WEBVTT

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It's been great to have our next
guest. He is a best selling author,

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New York Times best selling author.
We had him on the program for

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a previous book that he had written. He's great historian and it's a pleasure

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once again to have Tom Clayven on
the Nightcap. Tom. The new book

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is the Last Outlaws, the desperate
final Days of the Dalton Gang, and

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it's great to have you on the
show again. Well, thank you for

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having me back. I appreciate it, you bet you. What was the

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previous book, follow Me to Hell? Or what was follow Me to Hell?

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Was the story about the Leanna McNelly
and the Texas Rangers. Yes,

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great stuff too and another fantas Yep, we thank you. We certainly did

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this book. It's about the kind
of like the coup de de gras on

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the Wild West Bank robbers of the
nineteenth century before of the Dulton Gang.

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You know, we had obviously characters
like Billy the Kid Henry McCarty who died

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in eighteen eighty one. We had
Jesse James who died a year later in

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eighteen eighty two in Saint Joe,
Missouri. In famous fashion, we had

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the gunfight at the ok Corral also
in eighteen eighty one. But the Dalton

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Gang met their waterloo in October fifth. On October fifth of eighteen ninety two,

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in these brazen bank robberies in a
place called Coffeeville, Kansas. So

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if you would, Tom, let's
first, what I want to what I

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want to to ask you is what
separated the Dalton Gang other than like ten

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years before they finally really met their
demise. What separated them from the likes

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of a Billy the Kid or a
Jesse James. Well, the frontier is

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closing up, you know, the
bound what was called the west of the

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Frontier kept moving west until it bumped
up against California. So what you had

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iss more towns were becoming settled.
There was less wild than the wild West.

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They were also, you know,
the law enforcement was changing in this

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country, at least in the West, where you had a set of part

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time, no trained sheriffs and deputy
sheriffs and deputy marshals. He had people

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that were hired to be full time
professional lawmen. And that plus the communications

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system was changing. You know,
if you rob a bank in one town,

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they're going to telegraph the sheriff in
the next town. Is going to

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put a possea together within a few
minutes. It's not like you could rob

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a bank in one town. You
had maybe hours to get free. So

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the odds against Robert gangs, whether
it was banks or trains, like the

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Dawson brothers were coming. By the
time they came along, they were really

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like it goes to the Wild West
past. It's amazing that they terrorized and

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were as successful as they were for
a few years. It's interesting to talk

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about how in the Wild West in
this transitional period, the sheriff or the

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lawman and each town started to be
a professional. It became a profession.

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It wasn't just like you see in
the movies and said, we need a

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sheriff and they pin a badge on
somebody who's you know, a grosser,

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and then this guy is supposed to
deal with all of these mongrels coming off

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of the planes or off of the
desert, and yeah, that's neat.

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That's what was happening. Yeah,
that's what was happening. After the Civil

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War and into the eighteen seventies into
the early eighteen eighties, where most and

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many many of the frontier towns,
the whoever had the badge on without gunned

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and out manned. And so these
gangs were allowed to thrive for quite a

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while. But when that started to
change, I mean, people wanted on

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the frontier, wanting to build churches
and schools and businesses and have families,

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and they needed that kind of protection
from the west, law abiding citizens of

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the area. So they had to
put their money, you know, not

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a lot of money. Of course, these people are not well paid,

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but they had to put their money
where they were going to hire somebody and

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say, listen, your job is
to be the town marshal. I mean

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you got on the side. You
could be a carpenter or blacks, but

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your job is to be the town
marshal. And so outlaws started to find

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themselves runing up against these people who
are dedicated their jobs. Billy the Kid,

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for example, talking to Tom Clayven. The book is The Last Outlaws,

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The Desperate Final Days of the Dalton
Gang. It's out now from the

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New York Times bestselling author of Follow
Me to Hell. Tom Billy the Kid

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was outside of being an outlaw,
was also a gorilla. He fought in

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the New Mexico Lincoln County War,
and he became very very infamous obviously at

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a very very early age. He
died at twenty one. Jesse James,

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it's been it's been written a Jesse. Part of Jesse James motivation for his

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outlaw nature, his his you know, his whole criminal life was partly because

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he was getting back at Union soldiers
for their treatment of Southern sympathizers after the

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Civil War. Was the Dalton Gang's
motivation was it just greed? Well,

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there's two things. One is related
to what you just said. They were

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related. I think they were second
cousins something like that of the Younger Gang

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and Cole and James and Bob Younger
were a gang after the Civil War that

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joined up with the James Gang for
to run a couple of robberies and they

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ended up especially the Great Northfield,
Minnesota raid in eighteen seventy six. They

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all got captured and wounded and sent
to prison. So there was that stain

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on the family name. Like they
failed in their big sensational bank lobbing attempt.

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The Dalton Gang was going to restore
the family names be more professional and

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better for a successful outlaws. So
there was that. There was also an

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event happened which is portrayed early in
the book where the oldest of the brothers,

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Frank Dalton, actually was trying to
set an example for younger brothers but

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becoming a debt of the US Marshall. He was a very very good one

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for several years, and then while
making an arrest he got violently shot to

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death making an arrest, and ironic
that had set the wrong example then,

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because the juger brothers was saying,
listen, why should we try and be

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poorly paid Deputy Marshall's ended up in
a grave at an early age when we

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could be on the other side of
the law with our guns to take the

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money and be more successful that way. So it's sad to say, but

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Frank Dalton, by getting killed,
set the wrong path with his brothers.

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Wow. So this book deals with
this, this just unbelievable attempt to rob

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two banks at one time in Coffeeville, Kansas, October fifth, eighteen ninety

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two. And as you mentioned,
by this time a lot of the West

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was connected by telegraph. I mean, I guess from whatever was a state

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in this country had had some kind
of connection, so they they knew descriptions

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of these guys in the Dalton Gang
they I mean the local townspeople did.

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They knew what they did. They
knew their mL was. So when the

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townspeople see this transpiring in front of
them, I mean they kind of they

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kind of walked into a trap,
didn't they. Well, they did.

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They thought, you know, the
Daltons knew that Bob Dalton was one of

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the brains of the bunch, which
is not saying a lot, but he

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knew that in Coffeeville was in the
southeast portion of Kansas, was a very

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peaceful town, had been for a
long time. The people didn't carry guns.

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Even the town marshalls didn't carry a
gun. The two banks are right

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across the street from each other,
so he thought they were going to waltz

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in. They talked about it's kind
of funny, but they put on these

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fake mustaches and mutton chops sideburns,
thinking that it was going to disguise if

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anybody even knew them in Coffeeville.
So they walked in. They figured they

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would hit the two banks simultaneously and
be able to just ride back out because

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nobodyn't have any guns. And one
of the things they forgot is that,

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you know, people, They thought
the citizens would be too scared to do

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anything about it was the exact opposite
place. It's important to remember at this

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particular time that there was no fdi
C. If you lost your money,

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your bank was robbed, and your
bank lost money, you lost a lot

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of money. Yeah, your money
was gone. And so when people started

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to look and notice, they looked
in the bank windows, they could see

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a couple of men in there with
winchesters, and they started calling out,

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the bank is being abouted to.
They said, the dolphins are robbing the

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bank. Now they weren't exactly sure
the dolls are robbing the bank, but

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by that time in their career,
every bank they got robbed. The dolphins

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are robbing the bank. You know, they have to be in like four

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different towns at the same time.
There's so many bank robberies blamed on the

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dolphins. So even though they personally
did not carry guns, the hardware stores

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did. So these but a dozens
these citizens ran into the hardware store started

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grabbing rifles, pistols, shot guns
off the shelves, off the racks,

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and they came out and started setting
up these barricades, so that when the

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dolphins were coming out of the bank, all of a sudden, Oh,

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gunfire burst forth. The hail of
bullets were hitting the banks, and they

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had to retreat back in and say, what the heck just happened? What's

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out there? Who's out there?
And it was the citizens of Coffee Olver

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used to be robbed. There was
a certain amount of romance associated with this

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too, not if your money was
being stolen. But wasn't there an element

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of the American population that kind of
looked up to some of these criminals in

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the Old West? You know?
Yeah, I think there was another thing

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that was starting to change by the
eighteen nineties. I mean, in the

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eighteen seventies and eighties, he had
these dime store novels that were portraying certain

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heroes as heroic, you know,
wild built Hickock and Buffalo Bill Cody and

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people like that, but also some
of the outlaws heroes. Their editorials that

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lauded the James Brothers, for example, from being Robinhoods that were Robbins and

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the rich and giving to the poor. I mean they robbed in the rich

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and give to the poor. And
so that had been like a romance of

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the outlaw for a while there,
but by the eighteen nineties, you know,

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the the remaining outlaws were just not
very romantic figures. They were usually

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desperate like the Dolphins, that ended
up being they were killing people. They

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were not robbing for anybody any good
purpose. They were stealing trains and they

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were impeding. You as it get
close to the beginning of the twentieth century,

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the American progress in the West,
do you think that they may have

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influenced the criminals to come, the
outlaws to come that were, you know,

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had more sophisticated technology, you know, like the criminals during the Great

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Depression and during Prohibition that would follow, like Machine Gun Kelly and Baby Face

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Nelson. Yeah. What kind of
influence did a group like the Dalton Gang

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have on them? Well, I
don't think there was a direct influence because

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there's two logic gap in years between
when the Dolphins and their demise in Coffeeville

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and people came up in the Prohibition
years of the nineteen twenties. But I

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think there is what did influence some
of these gangs like John Dillinger and Baby

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Face Nelson some of those others,
is that there's a revival of that kind

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of romance of the outlaw. There's
one outlaw in the nineteen twenties nineteen thirties.

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Excuse me, who got a good
reputation for being a bank robber because

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he always refused to say the mortgage
money that was in the bank to those

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people had their mortgage money still there
to pay off. Their were their homes

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and their land. So there was
a little bit of that romantic notion to

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it. But of course things had
changed so dramatically at firepower and communications,

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and you could probably say in cruelty
there was in these gangsters in nineteen thirties.

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They were really no standards at all. Well, I mean, so

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did the Dalton gang ham standards of
who they would shoot and who they would

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not. Yeah, they really did
try to not shoot anybody. They they

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would of course brandish guns unless they
were robbing a train or a bank,

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they would display their gun and sometimes
they would fire shots in the air.

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They weren't necessarily violent men. They
you know coffee. That was really when

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everything changed when they it was such
a massive shootout that they had to try

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and save their own lives by shooting
everything and everybody they could. It was

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quite the sam tech and pole like
finished that that cost of their battle.

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But they otherwise when they were robbing, they they were kind of aware that

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they were people in the air who
could they were connected two by family or

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friends, so they didn't. They
really tried not to gun people down.

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They tried to rob two banks in
broad daylight, and the townspeople recognized who

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they were, and four out of
the five lay dead when it was all

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When the shooting was all done,
grat Bob, Who are the ones who

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were killed? Who was a remaining
living member of the Dalton Gang? If

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you can divulge that, Tom,
Yeah, I want to, because Emmitt

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Dalton, who was the youngest,
survived even though he'd been shot twenty three

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times the four Dolphinbers of the Adulton
Gang. He was the only one to

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survive and barely. And his story
is fascinating because he was born in eighteen

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seventy one. The prologue of the
book begins in a nineteen thirty one They

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talked about sixty years later when he's
visiting his brother's graves in the Cargo cemetery.

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Emmett did time in prison. It's
fourteen plus years in prison, then

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came out and it's kind of interesting
he got to do a different kind of

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bandit why he became a real estate
speculator, movie producer. How about that.

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I'm excited. I'm excited to read
the rest of the book. Tom

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Claven, the author the book The
Last Outlaws, The Final Desperate, The

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Desperate, Final Days of the Dalton
Gang Man. I love history. So

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uh, you got anything on the
radar for for what's what's next? Tom?

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Yes, As you probably know,
I do books with my friend Bob

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Drury. We did a book a
couple of years ago called Blood and Treasure

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about Daniel Boone, and we have
a book coming out next spring that's called

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h th Throne of Grace, and
it's about Jedediah Smith, who with a

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great explorer. He was like the
writer king right after Lewis and Clark.

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And he now only went back and
forth across the country once like they did.

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He went three times back and forth. A lot of adventures, grizzly

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bears, mountain and all kinds of
stuff like that. Throne of Grace.

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That'll be out of the direct A
fan was rating l Cincinnati Cincinnati Mayor afterab

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pure of all delivering the State of
the City speech with the eleven thirty report,

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I'm Sean McCormick, breaking. Now
Monday night, Cincinnati Mayor after up

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Pure Revolt, presenting his State of
the City address at the Air and Off

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Center. The Mayor taking a moment
to discuss the number of shootings in the

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city are down considerably, noting homicides
are down over eleven percent compared to last

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year and down twenty five percent since
twenty twenty one. While leaders at the

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state level are actively working to put
more guns on our street. This year

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we pass critical gun safety measures,
first a safe storage law to help make

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sure deadly weapons don't make it into
the wrong hands, and second, a

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law banning those convicted of domestic violence
from ever owning a gun again in the

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City of Cincinnati. Now the latest
traffic and weather together. All lanes are

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closed on Interstate seventy one North that's
beyond State Route one twenty three up towards

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Lebanon to a disabled vehicle, and
the right lane is blocked on I seventy

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five South at Second Street that is
due to some repair work. Now the

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latest forecast from the Train Heating and
Cooling Weather Center on news Radio seven hundred

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00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.600
WLW in the Tri State weather heading
to our Tuesday morning, clear and frosty,

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lower thirty four. Then for our
Tuesday, it's sunshine seasonal my highest

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sixty at night. We're staying clear. Back down to thirty four from your

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severe weather station. I'm nine first
Morning Chief Meteorologist Steve Raleigh News Radio seven

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hundred WLW. Radar is clear.
It's currently forty three degrees. An attempted

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carjacking of a Secret Service vehicle parked
outside the residents of President Biden's granddaughter late

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Sunday night in Washington, DC.
Shots fired, but there were no arrests

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made yet. In the nation's capital, a search for suspects after a Secret

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Service agent for acting the president's eldest
granddaughter opened fire. The Secret Service responding

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to three men trying to break into
one of their Secret Service vehicles outside of

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Naomi by this home in Georgetown.
These got away in a red vehicle.

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No one apparently injured. The raising
the tip happening against the backdrop of a

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city seeing a surge in violent crime. In college basketball, number two Perdue

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beating Xavier eighty three seventy one.
Our next updates at twelve o'clock. I'm

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00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:33.279
Sean McCormick, News Radio seven hundred
w l W. Evans Landscaping has the

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experience in products to get the tough
jobs done right. Evans is the choice

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nineteen, or visit Havans Landscaping dot
com. Open up our live stream on

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the iHeartRadio app and take a look
at the screen. You see that little

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red circle with a microphone on it. That's our talkback feature. Push it

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and send us your thoughts on the
current topic, something you think we should

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discuss, or just let us know
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Yeah, the talkback feature. Check
it out on seven hundred wlw's live stream

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on the iHeartRadio ad Progressive commercial.
We know a trucker's time is money,

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00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.759
and well there's a lot that can
impact your time on the road, likel

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00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:45.000
W and this half hour with the
Wild Man and I'm not talking about the

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00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:51.079
Wildman of Borneo from the Little Rascals
who threatened to eat the children. I'm

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00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:56.240
talking about your Wildman Walker, the
author of Wildman the book now with a

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00:17:56.359 --> 00:18:02.720
part two out and about, and
a guy who you probably, if you've

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00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:06.960
listened to Cincinnati Radio at all in
the last thirty years, are very familiar

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with. And here in the nightcap
too. It's always great to have the

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wild on the show. So wild
Man, I'm just going to start the

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conversation. By the way, good
to have you on again. How are

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00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.759
you always always Gary? Anytime?
Anytime? All right, I'm going to

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start to give you and some Biggles
fans some some news that they probably won't

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like to hear. The season is
officially over. What are your comments to

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that? Are you throw you throw
the towel? Well? I threw in

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the towel a few years ago when
I became a Kansas City Chiefs fan.

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I still root for the Bengals,
mind you, I still root for them

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because my wife's a huge hooday.
But and I was just shocked that the

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defense didn't show up, understanding of
course that the absence of Sam Hubbard was

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a big, big part of the
recent CJ. Stroud and the Texans just

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ran and passed all over the Bengals
yesterday. But now with the news that

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Hendrickson is out for at least a
couple of weeks and the Baltimore Ravens loom

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on Thursday night at the Stadium in
Baltimore after a quick turnaround. As far

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as the Bengals aspirations to one win
the division, to dvance far into the

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playoffs, or even make the playoffs, if they're five and five after Thursday

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night, I think it's done,
don't you. Well, I'm not thinking

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that. I'm not thinking that way. I'm thinking they still have a shot

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at the playoffs. If you look
into division, They're only a game and

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a half back of Baltimore. Baltimore
has got the you know, the short

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00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.799
turnaround too, I mean, and
they lost to Cleveland, so obviously there's

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some holes there that hopefully Zach Taylor
can his offensive coordinator Callahan can take advantage

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of. Sure, the loss of
Anderson hurts big time. Hubbard, I

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hopefully will be back. I'd like
to know where Miles Murphy is their number

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one draft choice, so they brought
in I mean, does he even get

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on the field. I mean,
we haven't seen this guy at all,

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but yesterday Gary, Yeah, the
pass rush was putrid. I think they

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only sacked C. J. Stroud
one time. Joe Burrow. The offensive

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line they gave up like five sacks
or four sacks on Joe plus forced him

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out. I don't know how many
times. I mean it was. You

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know, that loss yesterday was a
total team loss, starting with Zach Taylor

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all the way down. All that
was a total team loss. And anybody

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that you know is gonna run around
and moan and groan about Tyler Boyd.

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You know that happens. You know, there's a lot of other factors in

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that game that led to that loss. Well he did. He did drop

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three very catchuble balls in that game, including what would have been a possible

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game winning touchdown there in the fourth
quarter. But it's you're right, it's

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not just Tyler Boyd. I did
think though, with that performance with T

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Higgins not being there, I mean, if Tyler Boyd ever wants to be

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a first a first line receiver,
a number one guy, you know that.

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And there were there are a lot
of people before the season and and

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before this season last season saying you
know, Tyler Boyd, he's a number

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one receiver in any other team,
you know, without Jamar Chase or T

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Higgins. And that may have been
the case. But if he ever wants

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to be a number one receiver,
be considered in that realm. You don't

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drop passes like that, wild Man. Oh, boy, I tell you.

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You can't put in the loss on
him. Yeah, the drops,

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the drops you can't. You can't
deny. You know, Tyler Boyd,

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if you go back and look at
his career with the Bengals, he's had

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a very good career with the Bengals. He's he's normally sure handed and don't

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bring up the pass. And he
dropped in the Super Bowl, which I

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still kind of Oh, I still
remember that. But you know, let's

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not just focus on Tyler boy Let's
focus on they couldn't stop the run Delvin

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00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.920
Singletary. I could tackle that guy
and he ran for one hundred and fifty

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yards. You could hundred and fifty
yards, wild Man. You could tackle

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00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:21.240
him before or after you had breakfast
before well, and they gave him one

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hundred and seventy yards. Took a
rookie wide receiver CJ. Stroud CJ.

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00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:32.119
Stroud Gary Jeff might be the first
Ohio State quarterback in history to finally have

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a successful career in the National Football
League because Ohio States track record of sending

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quarterbacks to the NFL is one of
the worst. I understand. You know,

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00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.599
Archleister made some money, but it
wasn't in the NFL, and then

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00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:51.279
he went to prison. So no. CJ. Stroud though, coming into

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this game, had only thrown one
interception in one hundred and eighty six attempts.

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That came against the New Orleans Saints, so he did throw another one

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yesterday against the Bengals secondary that they
live on interceptions, and uh they they

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have shown a lot of life.
I would not blame the secondary for yesterday's

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00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:15.279
loss either. I think you were
more accurate when you said it was a

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00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:21.519
total team loss, starting with the
starting with the head coach. I didn't

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think that there were there were a
couple of times that that Joe just hung

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00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.480
under the ball too much, you
know, And and the interception that the

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00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:33.799
first interception Burrow had that was just
a bad decision by a good quarterback,

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00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.880
don't you think, Uh yeah,
well even the second one, he's trying

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00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.599
to make something out of nothing,
you know, and and I think I

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think he probably learned a lesson there. And that happens doll quarterbacks. I

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00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:47.599
mean, you remember Brett Park how
the how he would run out of the

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00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.759
pocket, you know, and try
to pass the ball a lot of times

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00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.640
he would complete something there. How
do they do that? But he also

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00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:56.319
is the all time lead leader in
interceptions and we don't want that out of

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00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:00.319
Joe Burrow. And it's but it
was a it's a total team, total

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00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.640
team effort. I mean was where
was the running game yesterday? Don't blame

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00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.200
Joe Mixon. Where are the holes? Where are the holes or Joe Mixon

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00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:14.519
to run? My god? Yeah, the holes were We're there for the

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00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:18.359
Houston Texans to exploit. I mean
they were on the line and there were

331
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:22.599
no holes. You're right, there
were no seams, there were no opportunities

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00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:29.440
for anybody that's listed as a Bengals
running back to go. Burrow did use

333
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:32.640
his feet again to pick up a
first down. I mean that was encouraging.

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00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.440
We know that Joe is healthy again, uh and we've known that for

335
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:40.880
a couple of games and he showed
it again yesterday. But you're right,

336
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:48.440
the lack of protection for Joe Burrow
and to open up lanes for that running

337
00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.759
game. Were glaring yesterday. If
there's a silver lining to the loss,

338
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:57.200
if there's a silver lining, and
leading into the game against Baltimore on Thursday

339
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:03.519
night, they know Baltimore. Baltimore
knows the Bengals. They remember the loss

340
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.039
to Baltimore early in the season.
So if they can, if they can

341
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:11.799
contain Lamar Jackson, don't let him
out there running around like a crazy man.

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00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:14.559
If they can contain him, because
he's not that good of a passer,

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00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.200
you know, he's more dangerous with
his feet. So they know what

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00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.920
Baltimore likes to do. And this
could be a slobber knocker of a game.

345
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.359
It really could be. I mean, they've got a decent running game

346
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:30.039
and that Edwards kid. But the
Bengals know the Baltimore Ravens and they always

347
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.559
seem to play, you know,
play him tough, play him to the

348
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:37.559
end. And I like the Bengals
chances because they know what's on the line

349
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:40.640
here now they know. I mean, it's this must win thing we come

350
00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:42.240
up with every other week. I
mean, it was a must win member

351
00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:47.000
against Seattle, and they rose to
the occasion. Now this is on the

352
00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:51.640
road, but the Bengals have played
well on the road in the regime of

353
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:55.839
Taylor. Just want to dend him
to that wild man and that is that.

354
00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:02.640
Didn't they know after the last four
games who CJ. Stroud was?

355
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:10.519
And you're right, an incredible impressive
rookie out of Ohio State at the quarterback

356
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:14.079
position. But I mean the guy
threw for like four hundred and seventy yards

357
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.279
last week. Coming into this game, he'd only thrown one interception in one

358
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.039
hundred and eighty six pass attempts.
To it, they had film, Yeah,

359
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.119
absolutely, like they knew that they
were in They should have known that

360
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.359
they were in for a dog fight
against the Texans. So just knowing that

361
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:34.759
the Baltimore Ravens and who they are
is not necessarily a recipe for success.

362
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.880
It's stuff that will help you prepare
for that or or you should be prepared

363
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:45.119
for Baltimore as often as the Bengals
see the Ravens being in the division.

364
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.680
But man, I just yesterday was
to me, I guess I can understand

365
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:56.920
how Bengals fan, just general Joe
Bingles fan would be going this morning,

366
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.680
just going, Man, it was. We had high hopes but it's over

367
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:06.359
where I started. The use the
Houston Texans for some reason, and if

368
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:08.640
you look around the NFL, the
Houston Texans, for some reason, have

369
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:11.440
always played the Bengals tough. I
mean, I think the Bengals are now

370
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.279
two and four lifetime. I remember
going to a Monday night game down there

371
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:18.880
when the score was like twelve to
nine. It was just one of the

372
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:22.920
worst games ever. For some reason, the Texans played the Bengals well.

373
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:25.799
And if you look around the league, there are other other teams that do

374
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:29.640
that too. It's just some teams
have their number. And I don't know

375
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.559
why. Well, you mentioned about
Stroud. You know, they had the

376
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.319
film on him and they couldn't do
anything wild. I tell you what.

377
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.319
The Browns are a team that have
the Bengals number. I mean what six

378
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.160
six of the last seven games.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And we

379
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.720
have to play them again this year. Well, they'll be playing here this

380
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.680
time, I understand. And we
don't live in Cleveland, we live in

381
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.799
Cincinnati. That's right, next person
that throws anything onto the field, point

382
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:02.599
them out, get them out of
here. Really crazy about basketball season,

383
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:06.400
are you? Oh? Yeah?
I love college basketball season. Oh okay,

384
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:07.680
all right, well, you used
to love the NBA, but now

385
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.440
I can't keep track any of the
guys because they move around them. They're

386
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:12.480
moving to team to team, the
team to team, the team, the

387
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:17.079
team. It's crazy. No,
I lost my love for the NBA.

388
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:22.599
Probably sh It's it's been a good
twenty years, probably the second that Jordan

389
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:27.400
was gone for me. Michael Jordan
was the Penns ultimate player. Uh.

390
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:34.319
And I know Lebron all the kudos
and the championships and the scoring and everything

391
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.200
else that Lebron James has brought.
And now we've got these young players,

392
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:42.960
but it just doesn't even come close
to resembling the game that I remember,

393
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:47.880
Oh not at all, because they
don't play Harley any defense. Everybody's everybody

394
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.440
wants to be a three point shooter. It's just it's crazy. I kind

395
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:55.279
of lost interest when the Larry Bird
and Magic hung it up. And then,

396
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.519
you know, I always loved Michael
Jordan, but it's it's hard to

397
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:02.519
watch the team I watch all the
time, or the Golden State Warriors because

398
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.480
I love I love Steph Curry.
I like watching him, but then they're

399
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:10.079
struggling. Right now, Yeah,
you can shoot, but every time I

400
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:12.000
seem like I turn on and watch
the Warriors, It's like, well,

401
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.000
who was this guy? What did
they get him? Because you know,

402
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.839
where's the other guy? Because they
move around like Gypsy's man these days.

403
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:22.039
Well, I mean with with the
transfer portal now in college sports, that's

404
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.960
going to be more and more the
case at that at that level, which

405
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:32.119
I think it just you know,
you got to have the freedom if you're

406
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:37.240
an athlete to play. You've only
got four years, maybe five in some

407
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.359
cases with red shirts. You've got
to have the freedom that coaches are allowed

408
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.240
after they signed the big contracts and
whatever, and then you know, lead

409
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.839
leave leave the players, leave the
players high and drive that they recruited,

410
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:55.400
that they promised that they would be
there to help develop them and be their

411
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:59.440
guy. So, I mean,
I understand the transfer portal, and I

412
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.160
understand being able to transfer without having
to take a year off or anything else

413
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.400
that those things that used to be
in place. That was a long time

414
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.759
coming. Yeah. Absolutely. How
do you feel about the UH about the

415
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:18.359
payment of so called student athletes?
Well, I'm home in favor of that

416
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.640
because look how many millions of dollars
they're bringing in. Sure they get the

417
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.440
scholarship. Look how many millions of
dollars they're bringing in, especially if there's

418
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:27.960
some big name recruit coming in there. So they should be getting something they

419
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:33.000
shouldn't have to rely on, you
know, just eating at the uh eating

420
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:34.279
at the cafeteria. They need a
little money to go out and have,

421
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:37.240
you know, and live and live
their lives sometimes. So I have no

422
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:41.079
problem, you know, paying them
a certain amount of money, but I

423
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:44.640
think I think it should be you
know, across the board, everybody gets

424
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:49.079
the same they right exactly. I
mean, because there are players who nobody

425
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:53.559
really cares about their image or likeness, you know, or or their name

426
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:57.920
or their jersey, and they're kind
of like, uh, the s O

427
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:04.640
L in that particular instance. Well, I think that I think this has

428
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.720
been a very productive meeting, and
I appreciate you being a part of it.

429
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.000
Well, I was waiting for you
last week. He asked me about

430
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:17.480
what I thought about Joey Vado being
paid off and told to go, okay,

431
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:19.000
okay, you know what I got
a few minutes, what do you

432
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.640
think about Joey Vado being paid off? And the Red sayd no, we're

433
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:27.160
not gonna We're not going to exercise
that option. There was two things there.

434
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.640
It was a baseball move and a
business move. Baseball move number one,

435
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.400
because I'm gonna go down the line
here and some Reds fans are going

436
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.160
to cry and wine and say I'm
crazy. Number one, he's forty years

437
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.759
old. Father time, catch us
up to everybody. Number two. He

438
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.400
was on the IR twice last year
after the All Star break. I think

439
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:49.400
he only hit one home run.
He can't run, he can only play

440
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.640
first base. There you go,
and the kids have got to play.

441
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:56.160
These people are saying, well,
you know, he'd be good in the

442
00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.279
clubhouse. Were you gonna pay a
guy three billion dollars to be good in

443
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.880
the clubhouse and maybe get sixty at
bats? I mean, it's the city.

444
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.839
I listen, wild Man, for
three million dollars, I'd be great

445
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:10.079
in the clubhouse, don't hear you
would? But the Reds aren't gonna do

446
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:14.640
that. No, you got to
let the kids play. The future is

447
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.480
now. Joey has had a fantastic
career, and if he wants to go

448
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:21.839
to Toronto, you know, good
luck there. Good luck there, because

449
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:23.400
the pictures, you know, won't
know him right away. He'll start out

450
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.160
probably hot and then he'll go right
back to where he was or he'll get

451
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.400
hurt. He needs us to hang
him up and do something else. I

452
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:34.480
don't like tarnish his career in Toronto
and he goes there. I don't know

453
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.079
where he's going to play because they
got Vladimir Guerrero playing first BA. Here's

454
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.200
the other thing. Vado will get
a statue one day, okay, he

455
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:43.480
will be in the Reds Hall of
Fame, mats and given. Okay,

456
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.079
and they can retire his number.
And then hopefully Cooperstown will call. If

457
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:51.039
Scott Rowland got in and Harold Bains
got in, I'm pretty sure Joey Bodo

458
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.759
is going to get in one day
down the road. But he's had a

459
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.599
great career. But it's just like
you want him to hang on. And

460
00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:00.200
that's what all these people do in
this town. Bengo fans read why do

461
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.359
we get this guy? Why can't
we sign this guy when their careers are

462
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:07.400
over? Historically, the prime example
of that is Willie Mays in baseball.

463
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.759
Uh oh, I remember that?
Yeah, that was sad it was.

464
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.079
And I tell you what else was? I mentioned Michael Jordan when he came

465
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:21.319
back fat as a player coach with
the Washington Wizards, and you know he

466
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.519
still could could put down twenty points
a game easy. He's Michael Jordan.

467
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:30.640
But just watching him unable to jump
out of shape, I mean, just

468
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:37.240
old, just old. It did
not take away the six NBA rings.

469
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:42.839
It did not take away all the
scoring laudits and the MVP awards or his

470
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.799
defensive proudest but it just wasn't the
same guy. And some guys just got

471
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:52.200
a noted when when they call it
a career. And I saw that video

472
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:54.440
of Joey and he he was,
you know, he was gracious and how

473
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:58.640
the Reds treated him over the years, and gracious to the fans, and

474
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.559
pretty much I think he kind of
read between the lines that he may not

475
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:06.359
even sign a contract with Toronto and
just bow out, Well, there you

476
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.239
go, well wild man, thank
you very much. I'm glad you're not

477
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:14.920
angry anymore. And uh, well, we will make plans to do this

478
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:19.199
again on another But just let me
go back to what I said before,

479
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.239
which is not going to go down
well with anybody. You've give it up,

480
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.920
but I haven't given up. So
there you go. The Bengals season

481
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.239
with any kind of playoff aspirations for
me is done. You're gonna eat those

482
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:36.840
words Thursday night, Sir. I
hope I do. I hope I do.

483
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:39.440
For my wife, that crow,
that crow without salt will taste so

484
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:44.400
good. My wife is a huge
two Day fan, like I mentioned,

485
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:50.000
and you know that's why I watch
intently and I'm rooting with her every week

486
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:57.199
for the Bengals. But I just
think it's over until Thursday night. All

487
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:00.119
right, wild Man, thank you
very much. See Thursday night. Oh

488
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:06.000
yeah, Dennis Wildman Walker on the
nightcap. As we get ready to put

489
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:12.960
a wrap on seven hundred WLW,
don't miss our iHeartRadio Holiday Special twenty twenty

490
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.360
three, all hosted by Mario Lopez. Thanksgiving