The paranormal Ufoss Mysteries. You're listening to Talking Weird and Know from a Kevin
deep in the Northwoods. Your host, Doctor Dean Bertram. Wow, good
evening to all my fellow weirdos and weirdows, all of us in the United
States. I hope everybody's having a wonderful labor day long week end. I'm
your host, Dean Bertram, here on Talking Weird for the Untold Radio Network.
I had a wonderful day to day. I think most of you who
listened to the show are probably conscious and maybe sick of me talking about the
documentary I'm making about Ray Palmer Shaver Mystery and the birth of the idea of
flying sources, called the man who invented flank sources. And to day,
I spent a wonderful afternoon with Ray Palmer's son, also called Ray Palmer Raymond
B. Palmer instead of Raymond A. Palmer, and I got to see
all manner of marvelous Shaver and Palmer historical objects. I'd almost call them relics,
including and I was almost stunned when I got to hold it some of
the original Maury Island's debris from the famous Maury Island incident which Fred Chrisman sent
Ray Palmer all the way back in nineteen forty seven, and the incident which
supposedly predated Kenneth Arnold's siding, which Kenneth Arnold himself investigated under the employment of
Raymond Palmer. So it was a wonderful afternoon, and I'll be keeping you
posted on how the documentary travels. Tonight's guest is involved with the documentary a
little bit, actually, and he's on the show before. He was born
and raised in the Cascade Mountains, and he hails from a family of storytellers,
artists, and musicians. He and his wife Laura have spent years collecting
folk tales and legends of the Pacific Northwest and beyond, and having listened to
countless family stories regarding UFOs, bigfoot, strange supernatural beings, ghost towns,
logging camps, railroaders, and bootleggers. He brings authentic, firsthand and oral
histories for all ages and diverse audiences. With his wife, he wrote the
twenty nineteen book The odd Man Up. He's also an incredibly talented musician,
and I'm fortunate enough to have an amazing song of his in the documentary called
Wizard Island and it's actually about the Darrow and the Tero and the rest of
the Shaver mystery, which is just fantastic. Anyway, I could talk about
that all night, and maybe I will talk with him a little bit about
it. But I'm delighted to welcome back to the show, The One,
the Only, Bob ants Hone. Hello, everybody, so good to have
you back. Bob, Thank you so much. Man, your theme is
pretty jam in there. Who wrote that theme song? It's pretty cool,
I be honest, I don't know, but I know Doug Hicheck put the
video and the opener and all the audio and music together. Who's the founder
and boss of the network, So he chose it, and I was happy
with it when he did. When he made I was like, that's cool.
So yeah, I'm glad you appreciate because your song Wizard Ireland people.
How do people find your YouTube channel, by the way, which has songs
and oh yeah, folk tale stuff on there as well. I believe unless
there are separate channels. I know you've got a music channel. I'm not
sure if that's the same as your one with the investigations and things. Yeah,
so we have a band called Tinkham Road. Tinkham Road is one thing
you can find on YouTube. You can also find Spotify, you can find
on iTunes, but I also have just under my name Bob Antonia, I
have a music channel on YouTube, So if you're interested in seeing my solo
music and some group performances and collaborations, you can on there. Oh excellent.
I just like to say thank you to one of my favorite audience members,
Nancy Malcolm, who's also a right the Superstick. Thank you so much
for that, Nancy, it's very much appreciate it. Now, last time
you're on the show, Bob, you talked about kind of obscure cryptids and
I know how much how audience loved that. And today you're kind of coming
back, not this time to talk so much about cryptos, but just strange
and you were telling me about some of them. I never heard about them
before the show, So I guess in some ways obscure or unsolved mysteries.
Yeah. I grew up with the Unsolved Mysteries TV show, Love that show,
Fall asleep of that show. Even to this day we turn it on
and oh god, you can't I can't go wrong with that. So I
compiled. We compiled a list of my favorite unsolved mysteries. Now some of
these are local from our Seattle area and our neighborhood, our community here,
but then some are international. I wanted to kind of do fifty fifty,
so I'll just start right at the top. This is a story from right
here in our community. Now, recently, on August fifteenth, there were
two people that went missing on the same day. Now not only two people,
but when we talked to law enforcement, they said thirty two people went
missing on the same day, August fifteenth, twenty twenty three. That is
this mind blowing. So out of the thirty two, we went searching for
two of them. And so you know, immediately everybody in the community is
thinking, oh, serial killer. What are these two disappearances connected. You
know, everybody has their wheels moving, They're thinking, what is going on
here? We helped We helped the family of the first missing person. He
was a sixty year old male. His name was Steve. And I know
their family. We know their family very well. They're connected to our parish,
our Lady of Sorry Sorrow's Catholic Church. So we helped in the search
for Steve. Now, what's interesting about this is both of them were found
deceased, and without going into too much detail, I will say there is
no serial killer that we know of. They were both natural causes, accidental
causes of death, some very unfortunate causes. But Steve, this gentleman that
we first started to search for, he was a witness in a very famous
incident. Their family lives in a place called Circle River. Now in Circle
River, they would look out the window on their front lawn and occasionally they
would see this black shadow figure of this person kind of hunched over, kind
of with a hoodie on, with like a Duffel bag, walking across the
front lawn. And then at some point this figure would just vanish, so
kind of somewhat transparent and see through that kind of thing like a phantom.
So it turns out shortly before these apparitions started to appear in Circle River,
and Steve, this gentleman that went missing, saw this apparition, there was
an incident next door, and there was a a man named Ken Boonstra,
And you can look this up. You'll find this in newspapers. This has
been reported on. He was obsessed with this woman that lived next door.
He would stalk her and he would he would actually walk that exact trail right
in front of the house, right where these folks saw this figure, and
he would stand there and he would watch her for days and days and days,
very very creepy. No one knows why he did this, and eventually
he acted upon it. And first on Mother's Day he attacked the family,
just randomly attacked the family and knocked this woman over that he was obsessed with,
knocked her to the ground, stole her purse, ran out in the
woods. That evening, he came back and the dog started barking, and
so the husband got up and he's this big firefighter and he's, you know,
he's on itche man. He's going to protect his wife, I'll tell
you what. So he gets up and he looks down the hallway and sure
enough, he sees this shadow of this figures standing at the end of the
hallway, and his adrenaline, as my adrenaline would be just going and he
went charging and this figure, Kemp, you know, came running right at
him and they met right in the middle of the hallway and just started brawling.
And you know, the wife got up and was screaming, and the
intruder, Kenneth. He overpowered this firefighter. This guy was pretty big too,
and no matter how hard he would hit him, he just wouldn't go
down. He wouldn't go down. And and she could see that this intruder
was overtaking her husband, so she went into the She went into the kitchen.
This is after hitting him over the head with like, you know,
a baseball bat several times. She wanted to get him. She finally grabbed
a knife, you know, this is what she had to do to defend
her family. She finally grabbed a knife and she stabbed him like twenty seven
times, and he finally he finally bled out and he died there. But
so this gentleman that went missing on August fifteenth, his name was Steve,
was someone who saw the apparition of Kenneth Boonstra creepy stalker guy that you know,
was retracing his steps through some kind of time loop, I don't know
what you want to call it, but a residual haunting. He just kept
crossing the same steps, you know, approaching the house with his duffel bag.
Very very strange story. Nobody knows why he was so obsessed and why
he lost his mind. So that's I should have started out with a banger
there. What do you think there's incredible to people still say the apparition today?
Yes, I have heard a few other neighbors reports seeing this apparition for
sure. Yep. I mean, I guess it makes sense that something was
so much violence and obsession attached to him. So I can only imagine the
amounts of psake energy that would be involved in that kind of a situation.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, And so it's very interesting. The other the
other brother, the whole family, and the other brother that saw this apparition.
He's not a believer in God, say, he's sort of an atheist.
He doesn't believe in the supernatural. But he did admit that he did
see this apparition, which is huge, you know for somebody that does not
believe. So goodness gracious, it's a spooky haunting story. That is I've
never heard that story before either. Yeah, you can look it up Seattle
Times. You can look it up Snoqualmie Valley Record. That's well well documented,
not the ghost part, that's the oral history section. But as far
as the crime. So I have another story. This is story number two
This is one that I heard so often. My grandparents love to tell the
story. In fact, they loved it so much they went to visit this
location. So there is a spiral staircase located in New Mexico at the Loretto
Chapel, and it was completed in eighteen seventy eight, and apparently the nuns
were trying to solve a problem. There was a twenty two foot space between
the ground floor and the choir loft, and they wanted to create an access
so they could get up to the choir loft, and so they called a
bunch of carpenters and the carpenters looked it over and said, oh, we're
just going to put a ladder up. And they didn't like the idea of
a ladder because this was a very this is a very ornate, beautiful church
with a lot of architecture and a lot of thought put into it and engineering.
So they decided they would pray for nine days. So they prayed to
Saint Joseph, the Saint of carpenters, for nine days, and the story
goes on the ninth day, a man appeared and he had a donkey with
him, and he had a box of really crude tools and just you know,
really simple like handsaw and a little measuring tape and a kind of a
planer. And he came in. He said, I'm looking for work.
I heard that you're looking for a carpenter, and so the nuns hired him.
So it says that a couple months later the staircase was completed, but
there was no trace of the carpenter. So he just disappeared. He just
he went away. He didn't even want to get paid. The creepy part
of this is that there are no supports. It was all so the staircase
has three hundred and sixty degree turns, two of them, but no visible
means of support. And the wood was analyzed. Now this is where it
gets really good. This is this is factual. You can look this up.
Scientists have analyzed the wood. They determined the wood to be spruce,
but not native to the area. That's the first part. The other part
that's very exciting. It's not native to anything found on Earth. That's what
it says on Wikipedia. Yeah, quite literally, what off earth? Perhaps
it's so interesting. And then he used wooden nails and compression kind of like
the Amish. And but so so far advanced, so far advanced. There's
thirty three steps equal to the years of Christ's age, you know, when
he was crucified. Very very interesting. My grandparents visited that location and they
walked up the steps and I heard it my whole life. Just a really
really cool unsolved mystery. Right, what year did you say was built?
Approximately or eighteen seventy eight? Okay? In New Mexico. New Mexico is
the land of enchantment. I always think Wisconsin's a weed, but when you
start to look at you start to look at New Mexico, it's loaded with
all kinds of strangeness as well. That's not I've never heard that New Mexican
tawb before, but it fits right in there. Half fantastic. All right.
We got next up kind of on the same lines. We have the
church in Lahinah in Maui. All of you have been following the news and
you probably know w Now, there was a major, you know, catastrophic
fire that killed a lot of people in Maui. But one of the miracles
that happened, and you can look this up, this is verifiable that the
Catholic Church Maria Lanaquila Catholic Church and Lahinah was completely untouched. In fact,
when the priest went in to check on the inside, the flowers hadn't even
wilted on the altar. Isn't that bizarre? Everything around it burned to the
ground. You had the convent, you had the daycare, everything burned to
ashes. The church was untouched. And so the Catholic Church is saying it's
a miracle. It's definitely an unsolved mystery. No one understands the physics of
that. It is absolutely bizarre. That is a miracle for that not to
be touched. The other place where that happened, very similar was Saint Paul's
Chapel in New York City on nine to eleven. So when the you know,
the towers collapsed, Saint Paul's was completely untouched. So it's another example
of a Catholic church survival. I thought it was pretty cool. It's like
the hand of God reached I from the city, not taking lace out absolutely
by act. Cool stories, and they're positive cool stories, which is good
as well. It's always nice to have the mysteries which have the nice events
instead of money. The spooky bent ones are fun as well, of course,
but it's it's nice, too nice to hear the nice ones. Also,
I agree, I'm loving your story. I'm loving your stories by the
way. But yeah, and if anybody wants to ask Bob anything in the
any of our wonderful listeners in the our viewers in the chat, feel free
to shooter for question to Bob because I'm I'm sure he'll he'll do his best
to answer. I'm sure he will answer it. So what would when you
hear something like that, Bob, do you do you tend to lean towards
it being because I know there are skeptics that you just say, well,
that's just a coincidence. But do you tend to lean towards a miraculous interpretation
when you hear a tale like that? Or I do I tend to lean
towards miraculous? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, m I have another great story,
and this is shout out to our friends over in the u K.
I have to add an English story. You'll love this one. This is
so interesting, very well documented. You can look this up. If anyone
wants to fact check me, do it because it's it's there's a lot of
information. There was a gentleman named Andrew Jepson and he was from Wolverhampton,
England. He was working on a construction site in the nineteen nineties. Now,
he was distracted, he was I don't know what was going on,
but he was distracted. And right behind him there was a four ton steam
roller. A four ton steam roller, and this is kind of a device
that compacts gravel and you're, you know, laying out layers of gravel preparing
maybe to pour concrete or something like that, maybe asphalt. So he was
distracted. The driver couldn't stop the steam roller, and you know what happened
next. He got his legs caught under this four ton steam roller and he
was completely rolled over. And I mean, four tons come on, and
I know, I know. And the thing that's so strange is that,
well the driver decided to just keep going. You know, he didn't even
try to put on the brake because he figured it would minimize the damage.
Well, when he got on the other side Andrews he gets up out of
the gravel, it just kind of brushes brushes his hair, and I mean,
oh my god. So there have been scientists that have actually tried to
recreate this event. They used frozen chickens you can look at this on TV
and they literally like laid this out and recreated it, and they said,
there's no way that this guy could have survived. He should have been absolutely
smushed into like blobs of fleshy meat. You know. Just it's the strangest
story, the most interesting unsolved mystery. Yeah, those weird accident stories.
It always fascinates me when somebody has an experience which should have killed or really
seriously inching. They woke awab Sky. I remember my little cousin when I
was a child. He was younger than me, probably be considerably younger,
so I probably would have been twelve and he might have been, like I
don't know, maybe I was ten, he was like two or something.
At the back of my grandmother's house, it was like a two story house,
and it was fairly kind of high. The back second story, like
a big staircase went up and it was at an outside staircase so you could
access the bottom dwelling in the top dwelling, an old kind of house.
And he rolled off the top and it was a drop that I guarantee you
if you or I rolled off, we'd be hospital, we'd be dead,
or we'd be hospitalized for you know, a serious amount of time, unscathed
and it was cement underneath. Like I'm talking about a drop, it'd be
like from the top of my roof too. I mean I wouldn't say I
don't think I'd even survive it. No, he was unscathed. Little kid
just rolled off boom on a cement. So when things like that happened,
you do one. Same with the steam rolling story. How on earth is
this stuff possible? So strange, so strange. Just one thing I wanted
to ask you too, because I knew you were going to. We were
doing mysteries to night. When I gave the British one made me think of
it because when I was a kid, one of my favorite British mysteries.
And when I say favorite, it used to cause me many a sleepless night
as well. I think it was talked about in one of the unwinned books
on the supernatural, like Unwin's Book on Ghosts or something, which was a
British book very popular in Australia when I was a kid, And that's the
Jeff the Talking Mongoose story. And I've seen they finally made a movie about
it called Nandor Photo and the talking because I think Nandor Photo was the investigator
or something. And Sam Shearon, who's been on the show before. I
believe he's an artist who did the art for the film. Simon Pegg stars
as Nandor Photo. And this new Jeff the Talking Mongoose movie, which I
think it's in cinemas now, it's about to be. I can't believe they
made a movie about the Jeff the Talking Mongoose story. How cool? Oh
man, Oh yeah, I love that story. That's great. I've got
I've got another one that is right back at our hometown. This is one
of my favorite stories. In fact, I learned this from the local historian.
Her grandfather just passed away at the age of one, one hundred and
one years old. His name was David Lake. He was the he was
the guy that shared this story. This was one of his famous stories.
So she shared this with me, and in honor of David Lake are elder,
I'm gonna I'm gonna share this. So back in the nineteen seventies there
there used to be a warehouser mill. It's no longer there anymore. It
was a sawmill. It's now completely gone. But back in the seventies,
it was quite active and David was there working, and so there was a
guest speaker from the University of Washington and he came to talk to the employees
about the history of geology, the history of the Snoqualmie Valley, you know,
Snoqualmie Falls, volcanic activity, the ice age, that kind of thing.
So at some point during his lecture he says that he in a colleague,
this is so cool. They found a tunnel under Mount Sigh. Now
Mount Sigh is this right over here. And that tunnel went for about eight
miles in the direction of Marysville, Washington, and they decided to explore this
tunnel and they went far. They went all eight miles, and they claimed
the speaker claimed that he and a colleague found a fire ring at the center
of the tunnel, and they carbon dated the fire ring and they said that
there was human activity seven thousand, five hundred years ago something like that.
And all these Rednecks, including David, was just like, you know,
there's drool coming out of their mouths. There's like, oh my god,
you know, because they they know these woods, right, they know these
woods, and they're like, there's a tunnel the Mirrorsville, you know what
I mean. And so they were just stunned, right, So they walked
up after the lecture, they shook this man's hand, Nice to meet you,
but nobody remembered his name, of course, right. So for the
next two weeks, all these guys, including David, they were in their
pickup trucks and they're driving all over the mountains and they were they were looking
for the entrance to this cave, this tunnel. They're just like, oh
my god, where is this tunnel? And they of course they couldn't find
it, right, they couldn't find it. So in frustration, they went
back to their boss and they said, we demand to know who that speaker
was. We've got to talk to him again. I want you to call
the University of Washington. I want you to find out who that person was.
We have to have answers. We want to know where that cave is.
So the manager at the Warehouser mill they call University of Washington and they
get somebody on the phone and they're they're talking and asking questions and they're saying,
hey, we had this event on this day, you know, and
who did you send out to speak to the employees and you know, and
so the answer was, well, we never sent anyone out to speak to
anyone at Warehousers. So there's a mystery right there. So somebody just shows
up and tell us this incredible story and then you know where he came from.
The thing about it that's so fascinating is there is a fault line that
goes right by our house here and in other parts of the world sometimes I've
heard that faults can shift and create a hallway, and they've seen this in
other parts of the world. Another mountain ranges. So it's very possible that
the fault line that goes right here by the house it actually shifted, maybe
during an earthquake, and maybe there really is a hallway that goes eight miles.
It's very possible. Yeah, I know what Richard Shava would have said.
He would have said it was one of the Kevin people visiting some way
a terror perhaps maybe not the Darrow. The Derry probably wouldn't have told you,
but maybe maybe somebody from the friendlier underground race kay to tell the pit
a true story. Yeah, that's really cool. That actually could be.
Yeah, we could we could go that direction if you want. I can't.
I can't help, but I can't help bring Shava. I've seen a
number of comments that people say how creepy and like wow about the stories,
and yeah, no, people are definitely enjoying great ghost story. But from
a previous one. Yeah no, people are enjoying the stories. I think
it's nice sometimes to have somebody on who just tells stories. It changes the
dynamic a little bit too, you know, just a questioning kind of show
as soon as they see if there are any questions. Ken Rock said a
lizard person. Perhaps you never know, You never know who's down there in
the cabins, and that, of course, putting Shave aside for a minute.
It's there's a long history, of course of the idea that there are
things and people underground and ancient civilizations and everything from lizard people to the fairy
folk to the Taro to the Darrow to underground alien basis. These ideas have
been with us for almost ever, that there's mysteries beneath the earth, and
that you said that fault line runs right past your place there too. You
were saying, Yeah, the reason I know it's the fault line is because
when when we're getting on the freeway and I've got a cup of coffee and
I'm driving. It's always the spot where we go over the pumps and I
spill a coffee all over my lap. So that's why I know it's the
fault line. Ed Shoots, another regular on the show who used to be
known as a psychic priest and was an exorcist for Ed and Lorraine Warren,
is just completing his memoirs at the moment, Memoirs of a Psychic Priest set
These stories should be in a book. So Ed is obviously enjoying the tales
of Oh I'm so glad, thank you so much. That means a lot.
And yeah, chairs to David Lake are elder and in honor of his
recent passing. So he was a great storyteller and woodsman and all that good
stuff. Okay, so you know about Ted Bundy. You've heard, you
know, you know the name Ted Bundy. It's sure quite famous. So
in North Bend, Washington in the nineteen seventies, we have a little mystery
here because there are certain individuals who claim to have seen and worked with Ted
Bundy. And I've reached out to so called you know, Bundy expert and
I've talked to even one of the victims that escaped, and you know,
there was one lady that you jumped out of the car escaped, And I've
ran this by folks and they don't know what to think. But the thing
is, there have been multiple witnesses that claimed that Ted Bundy was working at
the BUSYB Cafe in downtown North Bend, the town that I'm in right now,
in the summer of nineteen seventy three. So when you look at the
timeline of Ted Bundy's life, if you look at nineteen seventy three, that's
right before his killing spree began. And it's a place where there's not a
lot of documentation. It seems to be a hole where possibly this could be
true. So a woman named Kathy Johnson claimed to play pool and have a
drink with Ted at the Sure Shot Tavern in the summer of nineteen seventy three.
And then a woman named Aloa Burkabile she worked alongside him. He was
supposedly a line cook. She actually worked right alongside him. And so that's
a mystery that I would love any any Bundy enthusiasts, not that's not the
right word. Any Bundy researchers there we go would like to delve into this.
I would welcome some help on that because is it possible that he was
here in the summer of nineteen seventy three, because that's that doesn't appear in
any books, that's all history, and that would be an amazing chapter to
add to the story of Ted Bundy. Would they do you know, if
they were happen to coincide with any disappearances or or anything just curious not,
no, not. It wasn't until seventy four that the disappearance has started,
so we think that he was sort of thinking about it and fantasizing and sort
of playing out these things in his brain the summer before, and it wasn't
until January of nineteen seventy four where he started to actually enact upon those fantasies
and that kind of thing. So it could be that he was just thinking
about it, you know, scope it out type of thing. There's certainly
been a bit of a Bundy renaissance. Was it an Amazon series or a
Netflix series? It was some Bundy Girlfriends series recently, and it seemed to
there's a fascination a lot of people have with the serial killer. Absolutely,
and they say that like wherever he worked or lived or you know, did
his thing, that there is sort of a residual evil or a demonic presence.
And I think I've talked to you before, maybe it was you,
I don't remember. The contractors at his childhood home reported paranormal phenomenon in the
home, and so there were messages written in the dust. There were It's
like the words helped me were written in the dust at Wow. I don't
know if you did tell me that story before. Yeah, we went there
one time, My wife and I just checked out the neighborhood and went to
his house. But there was dust all over the basement, you know,
and there were no footprints leading up to the window. But someone clearly wrote
helped me, and there would have been footprints or evidence of someone walking up
to do that that there wasn't. So, and there's other other things other
places that he'd been that report like demonic energy or presences or things that are
that are not quite good. So, yeah, did you have a check
out Maury Island when you were in the Techayma kind of area. We did.
We actually walked the beach there where the events unfolded. We actually camped
my wife and I for her birthday went to Maury Island and camped for four
days and went to the lighthouse there. It was really a fantastic beautiful place.
Wow, yeah was here. Did you have any strange feelings or anything
we had happened while you were there or yeah, we kind of did.
It wasn't related to the Maury Island incident story. But so at the time
we were there, I was preparing and we were preparing for an event coming
up, and it was a naming ceremony for some of the local tribes here,
and so I had been asked to carve some of the regalia and some
of the pieces for this traditional naming ceremony. The traditional naming ceremony is like
you receive a name in the language. And it was strange because some of
the some of the elements of the story that was connected to this woman who
we were sponsoring or we were working with, appeared in real life. And
there was kind of some strange things that happened on Maury Island, and there
was a wind that came out of nowhere, and there were some birds that
were, you know, making themselves known. It's very interesting. But that's
the only thing that I can remember that was a little bit odd. But
in our life that's kind of common. I guess it happens all the time.
So yeah, fantastic. I think I saw a video, a video
of you and your wife. I saw going up Gravity Hill, one of
those gravity hills recently. It was fascinating. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we did. We tried it out and it it was it was real.
So where was that place? Where was it? Watched the video? But
yeah, that's in Proser, Washington, Yeah, Procer. So a lot
of people explain it as it's just an optical illusion, so you know,
but it was pretty fun anyway. I think it is an optical illusion actually,
But anyway, because you put your car in neutral and it looks like
it rolls up the hill. So it's one heck of an even oncount even
when you were filming and it looked like you were rolling up the hill.
So I love it. Yep, just too just incredible. So are there
any questions like from you from anything I've talked about so far? I think,
I mean there's there's broad kind of I suppose forty in questions from me.
Do you like, do you think do you think things for example,
like the the Bundy childhood home, I said us, do you think that's
some kind of extant spiritual reality or do you think that some residual psychic energy
or what are your thoughts and things like that? Yeah, I think that
My personal belief is that the more you know deaths and murders and suicides and
dark things that happen on a landscape, it accumulates energy. It just starts
to grow, almost like a balloon filled with you know, helium or something
like that. And the more it's like it's like snowballs, it's snowballs,
and it becomes to a point where it can't be ignored anymore. So a
lot of the famous hauntings, and I think Ted Bundy in his mind was
like that. He was a he was filled up with that stuff. He
was filled up with just this dark stuff right just in his wherever he walked
around to he would spread it around type thing. But as far as locations,
you know, there are so many places where because of the numerous deaths
and murders suicides, it's you can't ignore it, you know, you just
can't ignore it. And everybody knows that the place is haunted, and you
know, people see things, even people that don't believe in the paranormal will
see things at those locations. It's just a cumulative effect. It's uh,
you know, it draws in energy, and some people, like in the
dark Arts, you know, they try to harness that, They try to
harness that, they use that as power, you know. So they will
take that energy, that despair that you know, that fear, and they
will use it for other things, nefarious things. So that's that's sort of
the definition of like what you call black magic. You know, people take
advantage of that energy. Do you think Bundy himself might have been influenced by
by something spiritual or something outside of himself or yes, I do because in
one of the interviews he talks about he was speaking to some entity. You
can look this up. I think it was one one of the Netflix series
and it plays a recording where he's admitting that he's talking to some dark entity
within himself, not himself, but something dark, demonic and answering questions or
taking orders from something in the darkness within himself, and that is documented if
you look that up. Yeah, Well, I think Son of Sam had
like a doggie talk to or something like a black dog or so, it
is interesting that some of these people seem to be community. And of course
the skeptical type of position would just be one the person was insane, so
of course they're hearing voices and things. But I know, again getting back
to Richard Shava, he often wond that if people didn't do things because they
were malevolent, he would have thought it was the darrow. But maybe that's
just a literalization of something which is a non human intelligence which directs or encourages
people on a certain track to continue down that path to do wicked, horrible
things. And speaking about speaking about influences, he's a question from Nancy for
you, Bob. It says, do you think our storytellers may be attract
or even summon paranormal entities or activities? I do. I think that's very
possible. I think especially what language you're speaking in. So for instance,
if I was speaking in you know, indigenous language, I would automatically attract
you know, those spirits that are right here on this land, and their
eyes would just oh, they would perk up and they would hear me speaking
their language, this ancient language. When a language has been spoken on a
landscape for thousands of years. That also accumulates energy. So if you start
telling a story in that language, oh my gosh, that is like direct
You know, you're tapping into the spirit world. In my opinion, language
is so important, and movement is so important. So like the order of
your the rhythm of what you're doing, the rhythm of that ritual or whatever
you're saying that poem, or the rhythm of your speech. If it's ancient,
if it's been repeated over and over again, absolutely will it accumulate all
of that history into that rhythm, into that space. Yeah, that is
interesting. I was watching the new Small Town Monsters documentary Land of the Missing
the other day, and there was somebody mentioned something in there. I've certainly
heard before that there are certain Native American tribes that don't like to even talk
about Bigfoot or sasquatch or whatever the term is, because they think then it
will notice you. I've heard similar things talked about things like skinwalkers and various
other entities. Even in the Western traditions, we don't like it was well
known you shouldn't talk about the fair folk. Like even to say fair folk
was a nice way of dealing with it rather than saying, like the fairies
or something they might take offense to. But it was known that you shouldn't
even talk about them because then they'll notice you. Yeah, that's why I
when like someone recites the Rosary or says, you know, say the Lord's
Prayer. You know, these words have been said for you know, in
the same way often and repeated, and it has a power, a good
power. It has the opposite, you know, And so that's a good
example of you know, oral history, you know, just the prayers that
people you know, recite. It could be a Buddhist prayer, it could
be uh, you know, whatever religion. That is. If it's repeated
verbatim, it has power. It has power of all those people before that
have repeated that exact same thing. All of those lives are contained within that,
you know, within that rhythm of that language. So that's what I
believe. Absolutely. He who should not be named, Yeah, that's said,
and Nancy was a thought. Thanks you for the question, and degrade,
Yeah, yeah, there were certain things you shouldn't talk about. Ed
Shoots also suggests I think when we were talking about potentially what what were the
hauntings or what were the influences? He suggested stone type theory. What what's
your tape take on that? Yeah, So, what I understand how stone
tape theory is like, especially in England where there's castles and old ruins,
you know, that some of the traumatic events or historical events are are somehow
recorded in the framework of the old building. That's kind of kind of what
I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's kind of where the stone
tape theory came from. A lot of these old buildings. It could be
the East Coast, you know, but a lot of these old stone and
brick buildings and that kind of thing are said to contain and record somehow the
residual haunting within the wood, within the timber, within the stone, that
kind of thing. So I think it's very possible. I've got a mummy
story. If you guys want to hear it, you guys, really I
want to hear it. Okay, this is bizarre, and this is not
You cannot find this anywhere online. This is complete oral history. And I
don't think I've ever talked about this publicly. So I had a friend that
worked as a flagger over in eastern Washington and she is now deceased. Her
name was Gail. She was part of the Yakima. She was yakimas Naqualmie
Tribal and she was working on the sun Kadia Resort project. So there were
folks in the woods and they were digging lines. There were utility lines you
know there for natural gas and whatnot, trying to build up this sun Kadia
resort. Suddenly one of the machines, the traco, turned off. She's
like, huh. So she heard the guy turn his engine off, and
he comes stumbling out of the woods and his face is just completely white,
and he comes over to her and he goes, please come here, I
got to show you something. Like he was so he was shaking. He
was so frightened. He was so frightened. And so she put down her
flag and she walked through the woods back to where he was working. And
he had actually uncovered a hole in the ground that was airtight, kind of
like a tomb, and there was a hole and he said that when he
when he dug into this hole, like all this air kind of gushed out,
almost like when they first opened the pyramids, you know, all the
air that kind of gushed out, and they peeked in that hole and they
had flashlights, and I'll tell you what they saw in that hole. You're
ready. This isn't this is in Washington State. This is crazy. Gosh.
There was a little woman, a mummy on an altar, and there
were artifacts all around her, and it did not look like it was from
this culture. And you know, it looked very strange. It looked very
old, looked very old, and very strange, like she didn't recognize the
culture. And it was definitely a mummy, but it was a little person,
looked female. She said, she felt it was a female. And
there were little artifacts, pieces of pottery and things all around her, and
this altar and this sealed off tomb that he had broken into accidentally. Now
this is up near the Yakaman River. This is up, this is up
towards Ellensburg. Whatnot. So she said, she goes, I would like
you to rebury this. I want you to not tell anyone what you saw.
I want you to you know, please cover this backup. We don't
want anybody to know about this. We want to leave this in the ground.
Leave this in the ground. That was her. That was her cultural
response, right, and that was her gut feeling, and so he did.
He did. There were two gentlemen on the job, and so those
guys they went, you know, naturally, they went home and they told
their wives of what happened during the day. I mean, I would too.
That's just like, whoa, that is so crazy, that's so interesting.
Right. So the next day or the maybe two days later, they're
on the same job, and these folks come from Central Washington University and they
come up to her and they said, I heard you found something in the
woods. They all knew about it the archaeology department at Central College in Ellensburg,
and they were ready. And I would be too. I'd be like,
oh my god, can you imagine the discovery. What if that was
like, you know, some ancient race of human being that came and visited
the area, and that, I mean, that is just mind blowing.
So I don't know. The mystery is, I don't know what that mummy
was. I don't know whatever happened to that whole situation. But all I
know is when you go on the brochure of Suncadia and you read the fine
print, it says something to the effect of, you know, the Yakima
tribe came and oversaw some significant archaeological fines and it's a private matter, but
it is in print. And what a story. I mean, wow,
wow, wow, wow, that is a fascinating story. I think a
lot. There's lots of tales about things being overlooked or heat and archaeologically in
this country, like tales of giant scalletons and tales of early European expirations and
things that Martin fit the traditional archaeological paradigm some people say intentionally get buried or
ignored or put aside. We had a question from a horror Smith before.
Horace Smith is the professor of astronomy and or a professor emeritus rather of astronomy
and Physics at Michigan State University, and we had him on a couple of
weeks ago with Edward Gamont talking about his new Lovecraft book when the stars are
ride about Lovecraft and astronomy. But he has something and maybe you'll have a
take on this. Bobby says, this is when we're talking about more supernatural
type of experiences. And then there are those such as myself who never seemed
to experience ghosts or paranormal phenomena just insensitive. What do you think about the
predilection of some people who seem to experience and things which is supernatural and some
people who never seem to have experiences. Bob, Yeah, I just think
some people have that extra something, you know, like it's like a device
that you know, you have the ability to pick up certain frequencies, and
some human beings have an extra sense or they can they can see things that
aren't normally sensed by other members of the population. I think it's very possible.
There's so much around us, you know, and you talk to scientists
are you know, studying quantum physics and the possibility of parallel dimensions, and
there could be so much around us that you know, we can sort of
sense at times, you know, and some of us have that extrability.
I know there are studies about you know, the frontal lobe and like damage
to you know, people that are have head trauma or PTSD. I know
there are studies that say they're more prone to be sensitive to things like ghosts
and paranormal phenomenon and that could be you know, a scientific explanation. I've
heard that before, but in my lifetime, and I will just say,
just working with all the different people that we've worked with, all the different
cultures and witnessed so many different things. I just know there's something to it
because I've I've seen things. There have been situations where a group of people
who don't know each other will witness the same thing. They'll witness the same
thing and it's totally totally out of this world bizarre, and there's no way
that they would have got together and made that up together, and there's no
reason or to do that. And I just I just think that not everybody
can do that, you know, not everybody can see those things. And
that's not a bad thing. It's just not as you know, It's just
there's other senses in this world. Yep, Okay, odd things in the
state. This is a very good show today, Thank you so much,
Anita. Anita said, hello, all, I live in Washington State and
I'm amazed at the odd things in the state. This is a very good
show. Is a good show, Bob. It's always fascinating to talk to
you. So I know you I've experienced all kinds of things. What is
there a recent experience you could maybe tell us about something that's happened to you
in the last few months or yeah, there there is that one, and
it's very recent. But the thing about it, I do have to be
kind of like, I can't talk about it just out of respect. Yet
I think, yeah, is there another one you could tell us about it
something, because I don't think we've had you on it for about six months.
I think you were. You were a fairly early guest when we moved
over to one told if I recall some time ago, I mean I could
tell this story. I'll tell you a story. Okay, All right,
here we go. So this is something that you could ponder. This is
very interesting. So there was a time when we had some folks that lived
here at our house temporarily. They were like foster care, just youth and
their parents were going through a hard time. And at some point I heard
a scream and the young lady that was here, she saw a bird in
the back room. Have I told you the story yet about the bird?
No? I want to hear it, Okay. So I went into the
back room, which is right over here, and there was a snowbird,
a snowbird, and it was flying around the inside of the frame of the
window. And all three of these you know, kids, they were related,
they were siblings. They were so scared because in the in their culture
this is also like Irish culture as well. This is Celtic belief. When
you see a robin or a bird on the inside of your house, that
is an omen of death right and in the in the cultures here and the
Puget Sound and the Sailors Sea, it's the same thing when you see a
robin. So they were so scared. Their their grandfather had warned them,
you know, if you ever see a bird inside, that's a sign of
death. So I said, okay, don't worry, don't worry, don't
worry. And so I reached down and I grabbed a piece of clothing off
the ground, and I said, we're gonna get this bird outside. Don't
you worry. Don't worry at all. And so I had taken this cloth
or whatever it was that I grabbed a shirt, I don't know what I
picked up off the ground, and I just sort of cornered that little snowbird
and I wrapped that cloth around the body of the bird, and I could
I could feel the bird wriggling in my hand. I could feel it wriggling.
And I said, we're gonna we're gonna set them free. We're gonna
go outside. So I walked out with the bird in my hand, wriggling.
I could feel it the whole time. I knew it was in my
hand. And we walked around the corner here and all three of the kids
came with me, and we walked out the door here and we walked out
the back yard and I said, okay, one, two, three,
and I opened the shirt or whatever it was, and there was no bird.
It had vanished in my hands. Goodness, it is. So all
three of us, all you know, three kids and me, all four
of us saw this bird and then saw it vanish. Totally unexplainable. Don't
know what happened. So here's the end of that story. And this is
very recently. So I mentioned Maury Island. I mentioned some of the artifacts
or some of the regalia that we were working on that kind of thing.
Well, the story that was connected to the naming ceremony happened to be Snowbird.
The snowbird story. And this is a very old legend and it was
it was shared back in the eighteen hundreds. It was documented by the university.
It's a very old tribal story. Anyway, without going into detail about
that story, the day of the naming ceremony, the day just this is
crazy, Okay. I got up and my wife and I we looked out
our bedroom window and there was the same snowbird that vanished in two thousand and
three. It was on the outside and it was looking in our window.
That's the same snowbird. So two twenty three, it was twenty years later
suddenly, and it was connected to the cultural story. And its face was
black, and in the story, the face of the snowbird is charcoal black.
It's part of the legend, it's part of the folklore. And that
bird appeared and that was the same bird that disappeared in my hands in two
thousand and three. So there you go. Goodness gracious, there's something about
birds, like some cultures think of them as as you were saying, like
an omen of death. Somethink about storms carrying messages from the spirit world.
Yung talked about the significance of some of his patients and birds at the window.
I'll tell you my own bird story very quickly. This was super weird.
Weird at me to heck out, not because it was overly scary or
spooky, but the synchronicity of it was uncanny. A couple of years ago,
my daughter used to love even probably more recently, she still liked to
do it, but she was really into it. A couple of years ago.
She used to love to make little animals and little figures out of pipe
cleaners, you know, colored pipe cleaners. I used to do it as
a kid, and I guess I taught her how to do it. She
used to like me to make things for her that she was interested in.
So she might be like, make a pony, or you know, make
this cartoon character or whatever. And one day she came over while I was
working at my working on my laptop down on the kitchen table, which is
in a corner of a room with glass kind of windows all around it in
the cabin, and she wanted me to make a hummingbird for her. She
literally had come over make me a hummingbird. I started to make her a
hummingbird, probably over halfway through making her the hummingbird, and there was this
big tap at the window. Something hit the window. My door was like,
what was that? And we went over there and a hummingbird had flown
into that window and had stunned itself and was literally lying there somewhat unconscious,
and we went out and looked at it, and then it kind of woke
up and it flew away. But what was the probability of my daughter deciding
she wanted me to make her a hummingbird, and in the process of me
making her the hummingbird out of pipe cleaners, that a hummingbird would fly into
the window immediately next to us, get our attention, and be stunned,
and then fly away when we looked at it. That was uncanny. So
there is something about birds. I'm not sure what it is, but there's
something about them that is so cool. I love that. That's a great
story. I actually posted on Facebook at the time because I was so stunned.
I went, I can't believe this just happened, very strange. I've
got another couple of little stories here. I thought I would bring up the
name eleven. We talked about the church that survived nine to eleven. Now
talking about time travel, you know, So there was a woman named Bonnie
h Mcaninny whose husband Emon died in the attacks on nine to eleven, and
she wrote a book called Messages signs, visits and premonitions from loved ones lost
on nine to eleven, And so there are all these cases of people that
had an instinct, you know, not to go to work that day,
or not to get on the plane. Or there are even artists that painted
pictures or did artwork, you know, right before nine to eleven depicting the
events. So I wanted to bring this up because let's talk about time.
So there's a theory, and I think it's pretty plausible if you really think
about it, you could argue that if there's an event that is big enough,
if you imagine like a rock being thrown in a pond or a lake,
a big rock right in the ripples, you know, coming from that
event coming and if you think about time, let's say those ripples are rippling
back through time because that event, that rock is so large enough, that
would explain psychic phenomenon on a scientific level. I think it could. I'm
not a scientist, but I think it's very logical what I just said.
And I don't know where I heard that from. I think I heard that
from somebody. I can't claim that I came up with that idea, but
I think it's a brilliant idea. So a lot of people think that because
nine to eleven was such a large event, so many people died and so
dramatic that the ripples of time just like that rock being you know, thrown
in the water, you know, rippled back and people could you know,
collect that information in various ways, you know, so fascinating. There certainly
were popular culture interpretations of nine to eleven before nine eleven, like everybody's seeing
the Simpson kind of people have gone back to the Simpsons and showing them nine
to eleven coding in there. And the classic Loan Government episode, which was
the series from the X Men where not the x Men, the X Files,
where the Loan Government are trying to stop this plot to take down the
World Trade Towers by flying in a passenger airliner which has been taken over by
some type of sinister remote control. So yeah, that was and there's there's
other things. I think. I think fight Club has a weird I had
a guest on recently. We're talking about the how the release of Fight Club
and the collapsing of buildings in their coincided spooky with nine elevens. So yeah,
I think there is some and I've also I've also heard ideas, and
I'm not a physicist, I won't pretend to be one, but I've heard
people suggest and high ends of physics today that perhaps things that happen in the
present can somehow impact the past as well. And that's mind blowing. I
think what is done, yeah, ca and somehow, like you're talking about,
ripple out and affect things before they happened. Like it's just you know,
it's anyway, it's so weird, it's so strange. It's so strange.
It's weird. Yeah, Okay, So I've got a UFO story from
China. I thought we'd just go to China. Why not. You don't
hear about UFOs in China very often. So there's something called the and I
want to I hope I'm saying this right. Kaifeng Kaifeng ufo debris incident in
China. So on June twenty third, nineteen ninety at three am, people
in the Henan province saw a row of orange and green lights in the sky,
and there was a gentleman sleeping on the roof of the police station.
He was a police officer, and you spell his first name x U I
don't know how to pronounce it. But it was so hot. It was
the summertime, so a lot of people were sleeping on the roofs just to
escape the muggy heat in their houses. So he heard a loud thundering sound
and saw a fireball, and then he saw an object detach and it kind
of landed in a very populated area, and so he got on the horn
and he deployed his officers. He's a police captain, and he deployed all
these police to find where this object landed. And they found it in the
courtyard of number twenty four and I can't pronounce the street in Kaifeng, And
there was a man named Zing I think that's how you say his name,
Xi Ng. And it was his residence that hit his trees in his courtyard,
damaged his trees, and they found the object laying there. And the
first thing it was very strange is they expected it to be red red hot,
and it was cold to the touch. It was completely cold. And
the object was fifty by eleven centimeters and it was kind of a triangular long
object, the block of some kind. It weighed about six kilograms and very
mysterious. They had a scientist. This is all documented, this is through
the government there, so this is all traceable. You can look this up.
This is verifiable anyway. They someone analyzed the contents of this object and
they broke down a ratio of aluminum and different elements. You can look that
up online. So about a year later, the trees in this courtyard started
to die, and so the government was afraid maybe there was radiation, so
they had everybody in that block, you know, you know, temporarily leave
that block and had them checked out at the hospital for radiation poisoning. People
were complaining they were feeling sick, and the person that owned the courtyard himself
was feeling really sick. In fact, he had like a stroke and he
ended up in the hospital and he was unresponsive, almost like a coma state.
And so the story goes that he he went from completely no hope.
He was, you know, he was scheduled to pass away to miraculously coming
back to full health. And before he came back, uh, and and
came back and you know, stood up in the room he said he was
visited by two alien beings at the bedside, two little strange creatures that came
up and talked to him, and they talked to him in his language,
I guess, and they were definitely not human. And so it's one of
those really cool stories from China. I'd never heard about it before. I
thought, what the heck, let's talk about it. It's pretty neat.
Wow. What was what it was? June twenty third, nineteen ninety so
you know, June twenty fourth, that's the Kenneth Arnold. Yeah, and
June twenty first is the Maury Island incident. So I thought, oh,
this is kind of cool. June. Now this is is very similar to
Maury Island in a way. But you said you touched fragments of Lent incident.
Yeah, I touched the one remaining fragment that the Palmers have, Like
apparently, I think ray Raymond a Palma had multiple fragments. I think he'd
given them away, and this is all that the family we have, no
one remaining Marie Island fragment given to them by this. This is the fragments
that Fred Christman sent them that launched the entire story back in the day when
he shipped them to Rape Harbor, and he that instigated the the investigation.
So yeah, sorry, go on but yeah, it's it's a first story.
I love tying it with Maury Island. The thing about this story is
that the fragment disappeared, so like the government, you know, took it.
They never brought it back. No one can access no one knows where
it went. It's gone, it's it's so this is all documented, well
documented, the police, force, the government. Everything. Wonderful story.
So wow. Yeah, and just quickly ed, who's actually married to a
lovely lady from China, said that, and I would never have known that
the Chinese name x Use is pronounced she with two ease, so he gives
it's a long she, and he said, and he correct himself as zing
as in x i n g. I would have thought it was pronounced zing
is actually pronounce shing shing oh sing so perfect. Thank you so much.
That helps me a lot. I would have had no idea it's And I'm
from Sydney where we have a very big Chinese population, but I'm terrible with
some of the pronunciations as well. Here's something Horrace talking about the the meteor
rte or the debris found. Smaller meteor rites are usually cold, not hot,
wind found part of the story has elements of Lovecraft's Color Out of Space
with a happier ending. That's awesome, that's true, Thank you, Horace.
Super cool. But no, the More Island incident is it's just such
a fascinating story. We could probably do a whole show just talking about that.
You and I absolutely pretty sure you've got one more. I've got one
more story. I'd love to hear another. I'm happy to go over if
you've got another story for me. Okay, so I've got a great one.
You guys are gonna love this. This is awesome. This is a
local story, but it has you know, it connects to the American Civil
War. It's a very strange story. It's not necessarily parent normal. But
if there's any treasure hunters out there, I would challenge you, if you're
interested in finding this object that I'm about to describe, I would welcome you
to come. You know, find where we live. You could use our
house as a base camp. I'll go out with y'all, show you the
area I want to find this treasure. Here we go, so back in.
Let's see eighteen fifty three. Mister George McClellan, you know the name
from the Civil War, he was a general. He was a West Point
graduate, served in the Mexican American War, and then he became a surveyor.
He was a railway engineer and executive until the outbreak of the American Civil
War eighteen sixty one. November eighteen sixty one to March eighteen sixty two.
He was the commanding general of the US Army. That before that, he
came out to good old North ben Washington, and he was here under Governor
Isaac Stevens trying to locate a decent route to build a railroad from eastern to
western Washington. Was surveying the land, and so he was very stubborn,
you know. He was very stubborn, and he was he was insubordinate.
He didn't listen to his boss, you know, and so there was a
lot of tension between Governor Isaac Stevens and mister McClellan here, and so he
kept a journal. He never wanted to listen to anybody. He'd always get
lost in the woods. And so the story goes, and I heard this
through my family. This is a folk tale that's been passed down forever.
But apparently there was a canon, a military canon that George McClellan had brought
to the area. Now, the purpose of this cannon was to defend the
settlers and the US government from possible Native American attack from Yakiman other tribes,
and so he was scheduled to mount this canon. In some versions of the
story, he mounted the cannons cannon successfully on McClellan's butte, which is very
close to the house here, and then later it you know, it never
was used. And so the story is that the canon then at some point
slipped off the mountain and maybe is buried in a landslide. So over the
years, my grandparents, my dad would mention it. My grandpa he said
it, man, if you could ever find that cannon from McClellan, man,
that would be worth a lot of money. So somewhere buried under this
rock slide, there is a cannon from eighteen fifty three, and it's one
of those great treasures. The other story is that he was so embarrassed that
he lost his load in the middle of the Snoqualmie River, and he actually
the cannon and everything washed down river. But he was so embarrassed about it,
and he told his men, don't tell anybody what happened, and so
it's very possible that the cannon has also possibly buried under Interstate ninety. So
that's the story I wanted to end with. And there you go, man,
Bob. It was so much fun having you back on the show.
It was great to talk to you last time. It was great to talk
to you again now and now everybody listening and coming in the chat, we're
having a great time and enthralled by your twels as well. How do people
get a hold of you or how do people see what you're up to?
Oh? Okay, well, you know, you just go on like Instagram.
You can type in Bob Antone. There's also our band, Tinkham Road,
which is on YouTube. It's It's also on Spotify and iTunes. It's
the band that I play in. I also have a YouTube channel where I
play music. I'm a music teacher. I have private students. It's my
main main gig. But I love to tell stories and we love to research
obscure history of the area. We worked with a lot of historical societies.
So just type in our name and Google and it'll send you all over the
damn place and they'll find us. You're one of those rare people, Bob,
who's incredibly talented at more than one things. I mean, I think
most people at myself, I'm happy if I'm talented at one thing. But
you'll like this incredible storyteller and research and you're also just an amazing musician.
One of the highlights of making this film has been having your song we that
Ireland in it and being able to work out how to use that within the
structure of the film. So it's become a big part of the film.
As I was mentioning to you before, but thanks so much, but let's
keep in touch you and I'll be talking anyway. And thank you so much
for coming on the show tonight. Thank you so much. That was so
much fun. I had a good time. It was a great time until
I talked to you again, until I talk to everybody else out there.
Keep it weird.