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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Wilsh, your host,

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and yet another exciting show for you
this evening. My featured guest is Chris

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Styles, and we're going to be
talking about a case that he has deeply

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been involved in for many years,
the Shag Harbor incident. Some of you

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may not be aware of what that
was, but it's a very well documented

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case and we'll be talking all about
that. And there's actually a couple of

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well at least one new development in
that case which is very interesting. Also,

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we're going to be talking about a
UFO and Cape Sable Island. That'll

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be talking to both Chris and another
guest. I met Chris in Shag Harbor

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a few years ago, along with
two other people that will be on the

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show tonight. First Jordan Bonaparte,
he joins us again. He's been on

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the show many times from Nova Scotia. I met him up there in Shag

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Harbor, and after the first break
Justin Brown, who also I met up

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there in sharg Harbor. He's going
to join us and talk about a film

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that he has coming out about the
area up there in the UFO incidents and

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abductions and strange things going on up
there, and let's see, I want

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to thank everyone that supports the show. Anyone can do that. We are

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on Patreon and the link is on
podcast ufo dot com. While you're there,

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check out our latest blog by Charles
Lear Fear and Loathing and UFOs and

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Dulcie. Pretty interesting title and it
kind of sums up what the story is

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about, what his blog is about. It's a really good read. Check

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that out when you're over there.
And I always do, not always do,

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but I often do a kind of
a shameless plug of my artwork.

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And I live right on the coast. So I just decided to start painting

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seagulls, I don't know, two
weeks ago, so check it out,

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and you know, I win on
my art website. And what I did

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is I by the way, I
have seagulls all over the place. One

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just basically lives on the chimney where
I live. And I really do love

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seagulls, That's why I'm painting them. But anyway, I lowered the prices

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on my artwork to half of what
they used to be in a gallery.

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So this I just did this yesterday. So also, if you if there's

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something there you like. If you
go to check out and you add the

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code UFO, you'll get fifty percent
off, So it's like a quarter of

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my usual gallery prices. Anyway,
I just thought I would throw that again,

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another shameless plug out there. And
at the beginning of the show.

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Here I am bringing in my good
friend from Nova Scotia. How you doing,

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Jordan, I'm doing the show.
Hey, thanks Marton. Great to

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be here. Yeah, especially on
especially on this event with Chrys Styles joining

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it. This is what I wouldn't
so I had to write you and try

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to get in on this. I
know you did. You forced your way

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into this one right one way or
another. I was coming yeah another.

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You know. I think this is
probably kind of like Canada's Roswell, would

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you say, shag Harbor this event, Yeah, well more than kind of

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what we call it. People call
it and it is Roswell, and I

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think it's in a lot of ways
you'll you'll hear Chris explain, but in

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a lot of ways, I think
it's even more sensational than the actual Roswell

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event. Shag Harbor is a fantastic
story, tons of proof, tons of

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evidence, a whole bunch of really
interesting people involved in it. And I

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think one of the things that Shag
Harbor has going for it that a lot

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of other sightings don't is it has
kind of like, you know, this

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one guy who is just driving the
investigation and has been for years, and

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he's coming up on your show soon. Chris Styles is just a force to

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be reckoned with. Yeah, yeah, I know. I remember, you

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know, way back before I when
I very first started getting into UFOs and

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I went on YouTube and all over
the place trying to figure out what went

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on in Shag Harbor. And I
remember seeing Chris on He's been on multiple

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TV shows about about the subject for
one thing, and I know he was

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and along with Don Letcher uh the
early investigators of the case. And you

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know, as I mentioned, there's
something new that he's going to talk about

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tonight, they always do something.
Chris doesn't stop with this with investigating Shag

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Harbor. He is so deep into
it, and it's like, I feel

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like his investigation is as active now
as it was, you know, in

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the beginning. So I'm not surprised
he has some new evidence or new developments.

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There's there's always something this is that
good and it's like it's going to

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be a treat for your listeners to
hear him tell the story. Well,

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you know, it's funny. You
know, some people will say something along

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the lines where, you know,
why why do you always just talk about

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old UFOs I think, which is
not true. We talk about um,

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whatever happens when it happens. If
it's like, for instance, the Nimic

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cases, the Nimics case is fairly
new and a really amazing one, um

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and so, but what happens is
a lot of these old cases is that

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there is people opening up after a
while that never wanted to talk before,

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and that's what keeps them alive and
you know, keeps them really interesting.

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I don't think it's going to happen
to Roswell anymore because you know, those

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uh, there's I think maybe one
survivor that purported witness um if if any.

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I think I think they're all gone
at this point because that was,

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you know, so many years ago. Yeah, but this case was nineteen

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sixty seven and you know, many
years ago. But there's there's still um

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you know, you wouldn't think so, but there's still people that maybe didn't

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want to talk about it at the
time. For occupational reasons or whatever.

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Absolutely, and it's just especially in
that community, like you were there with

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me two or three years ago in
and around Shag Harbor. It's um,

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this is a big part of that
community's culture. So it's I think over

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time people are probably less ashamed to
be involved in some way. And then

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of course you have you know,
so you'll have people coming out of the

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shadows basically to share their story.
But then you have again Chris Styles digging

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deep into any documentation or evidence left
behind, and it seems like people are

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always trying to find a new way
to figure out what may have happened.

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Like just last year there was famous
divers. What's the family, the famous

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the Custos. Yeah, it was
like the Jock Custos, like grandchildren were

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in the area filming a documentary and
diving. That's right. I heard about

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that. Yeah. Yeah, I
don't know what came of it, but

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I think Chris was involved, so
I'm sure he'll answer some questions, but

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I'll have to ask him about that. Yeah, the the underwater aspect of

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this is really fascinating that they were
you know, it was research. I

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have some I want to talk about
myths too, because there are a couple

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of myths out there that I want
to get cleared up. Yeah, or

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maybe they're not myths. I don't
know, but it's still a lot to

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discuss. But thanks for coming on
and saying hi. And how far Remind

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me how far away you are from
shag Harbor. Well, I don't think

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anyone is near it. That is, it's the middle of nowhere. I

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think I'm about I think it's about
a three hour drive. But it's like

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if you pick the most boring direction
to go from my house, it's three

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hours just to nowhere, and then
you can end up on this little street

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where there's you know, UFO Museum, and it's beautiful. The area right

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there is really beautiful. It is
well right on the shoreline, it is

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beautiful. So yeah, I enjoy
Chris. I'm excited to listen in.

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I'm sure your audience is gonna really
be into this and have some cool questions

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for him. I'm excited for this
one. Yeah, excellent, all right,

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Jordan. Well wait, I'll let
you give a plug for your podcast

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because you talk about UFOs well there
often. I've also had Chris Styles on

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several times. We did a live
thing at a bar in Halifax and freaked

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a lot of people out because they
I don't think they weren't specifically coming to

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see Chris and I talk about UFOs
at the bar. But my show is

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called the Nighttime Podcast. I cover
Canadian unique stories, be it crime,

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mysteries, UFOs, sightings. And
you've been on a couple of times,

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Martin, so I think, yeah, you're some of it. It's kind

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of like a documentary podcast in a
way. Right, Yeah, it's kind

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of like very well done. I
consider it like it's almost like the TV

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show Unsolved Mysteries, except if it
was on the radio and only in Canada.

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Yeah right, all right, Jordan, you take care, Thanks so

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much. Thanks for having me,
Martin, take care. All right.

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Before I get started with with Chris, I am going to play a trailer,

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a trailer about a documentary that is
made about him. And here it

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goes, who is Chris Stiles?
What? Who is Chris Ryles? Who's

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Chris Stiles? Oh? Chris Styles, Um Styles Chris, Chris Chris Styles,

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Christles Christles, christ Chris christ Chris. We saw UFO that day,

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We saw up of undetermined origin and
purpose. Better understanding of this phenomena is

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to me one of the things that
matter. You have stepped up to the

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plate in our time. I think
that science is in remiss to dodge the

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question. They seem to enjoy that
life is struggled, passionate pursuits or struggled.

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But when you're passionate about something,
you just do it. If they

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were easy, I'm not so sure
they would be that worth doing, and

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we'd be talking about something else.
The Shag Harbor case is probably stronger of

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a UFO case than Roswell, you
know, because we have the documentation that

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Chris got his hands on, you
know, from the Canadian government. It's

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like the only, as far as
I know, the only UFBO crash that's

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backed up by the by the government. I ain't pray see and forget about

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other planets and other worlds. Is
there even anything other than this neighbor?

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What we need to know, what
the governments know about what was at the

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bottom of shag Harbor? I am
what I am with out apologies, that's

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it. Welcome to the show,
Chris. Good to be here, and

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you just saw that for the first
time. Yes, yeah, night,

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yeah, yeah. I'm tampted to
quote the bird and say much ado about

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nothing. But you know, they
always try to make this so mysterious,

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but to me, it's just it's
just another question that needs an answer.

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Yeah. Um, you know,
Chris, uh, I did meet you

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up in shag Harmy. I know
you don't remember because you met a lot

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of people at that time. It
was very busy. It was really an

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exciting event. Um, what was
was that the fiftieth Yes? Yes,

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yeah, it was the thirtieth anniversary. Yes, yeah, incident and they're

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having one every year now, right, Well, this year it's going to

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probably not going to work. But
uh no, never, No, that's

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unfortunate. We're going to hit one
in twenty twenty one in Yarmous. It's

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unfortunate we were going to have it
this year. But of course, the

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all the concerns with COVID nineteen and
the coronavirus, it's just not feasible.

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Uh, you know, there were
questions about the border, etc. So

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you know, twenty twenty one as
we're targeting. Now, yeah, that's

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right. I mean getting in and
be able to visit. I don't think

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anyone is actually going between America and
Canada tourists as far as I know,

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Yeah, it was too risky because
we had a lot of great speakers lined

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up Debbie z Zego Meyer, Dave
Marler, Rob Swide Technico who I've never

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met, Ryan Sprague, etc.
And But next year, hopefully we'll get

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it all together and I'm looking forward
to it. Yeah, yeah, awesome.

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You know, as I mentioned to
you off air when we very first

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started talking, we have about ten
minutes or so until we go into our

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first our only break. Actually,
if you can really go over, I

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had mentioned this to you that there's
a lot of new listeners, not just

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to the show, but there are
new listeners to the UFO, you know,

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a phenomenon. And I know this
because I'm constantly getting email from new

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listeners that wanted want me to give
them information, for instance, like it

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what books to read, what you
know, who to stay away from,

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you know that that sort of thing
as far as their research. A lot

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of people are unfamiliar with this case. A lot of people know it very

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well. But if you wouldn't mind, could you indulge us for what happened

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in October fourth is at nineteen sixty
seven correct? Correct? Yeah, Canada

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Centennial Year, Summer of below and
all that sort of thing. Let's try

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and give it in a nutshell.
It was like eleven twenty at night PM

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Highway three the fishing village of shay
herber Nova, Scotia, was a Wednesday

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night, very transparent, clear atmosphere. You could see six magnitude stairs without

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binoculars, and if anybody who was
outside looked up, what they saw was

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an unusual pattern of lights. Four
lights flashing in sequence, and they went

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one, two, three, four, and then it would repeat and flash

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all together, and that unusual pattern
that doesn't match commercial trap repeated over and

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over. The lights were seen to
hover over the Shag Harbor area for several

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minutes, and then the series of
lights tilted to a forty five degree angle

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and descended rapidly to the water surface. They struck the waters of the Sound,

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which is the local term for Shag
Harbor, and produced the sound of

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an explosion. And you know,
several people immediately called the RCMP that were

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in nearby positions. One of the
interesting features of this case is that no

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one reported a UFO. Of the
seven calls received by the RCMP that night,

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all simply said that they thought a
planet crashed or that lights had gone

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into the water. Two units were
dispatched from two different directions, and when

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they arrived on scene, there was
a crowd gathering by what's known as the

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Moss Plant, which still exists there
to this day. And what they saw

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was at this point a dome of
yellow light on the water, and it

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was moving toward open sea. Three
RCMP officers who arrived on the scene also

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saw this. One of the officers
interesting, they saw it in the air.

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The other two were in the detachment
in nearby barringin passage. So they

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got there and you saw this thing
moving toward open sea. And within five

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or ten minutes of that, it
disappeared suddenly, and some thought it sank,

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some thought it simply disappeared. They
commandeered two local boats and went out

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to the spot. Coast Guard also
responded from the nearby life station on Cape

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Sable Island. They went back and
forth in the area and they found a

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large streak of dense yellow foam and
this foam was like eighty feet in width

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and perhaps a half a mile in
length, and it was something unusual,

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and people that knew the local conditions
well thought it was like nothing they'd ever

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seen. The Sir carried on until
last light and was resumed at first light

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and we'd got back from the AIRCNP
and the Rescue Coordination Center in Halifax.

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After they took statements and conferred with
the two nearby military bases that were US

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bases at the time in Canadian Soil
CFS Barrington at back Row and Canadian Forces

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Station Shelburne. It went to CFHQ
in Ottawa and an underwater search was ordered

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by the Air Guess, which was
Canada's Division of the Air Force, the

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RCAF that dealt with UFOs. A
five day search was carried out by the

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Navy with divers and at that point
was canceled and an announcement was made in

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a press release that they found nothing
and did not know what it was because

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there were no missing or light aircraft. But that's it, in a nutshell

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list of what happened. But that
was hardly the end of the story,

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right and we're going to discussed a
lot of that. A couple of questions

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I have right off the bat is
the yellow foam? Did anyone take samples

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of that? One of the local
fishermen attempted to. Now you got to

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remember when these men are going out. Nobody's even thinking UFO yet there,

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but there there, this is a
rescue mission. Yeah, they're concerned,

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and they all tell you quite well. They remember what it was like.

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They felt sick to their stomach.
You know, it's a bad feeling when

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you go out. I mean,
and I hear this all the time here

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in Nova Scotia when you have such
a thing. I remember the crash of

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Swiss air flight down in Paige's Code. You know, when the people go

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out and they can't help and they
don't find anything that they can do,

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you know, you get this awful
feeling. And that's what it was like

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that night. They were going out
looking for survivors. They didn't know what

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they were into. I mean,
what they were saying was confusing. And

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when the AIRCNP were gathering up,
you know, all the various witness accounts,

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it was the composite of information that
you know, really made them to

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consider the alternatives right and you know, and of course as time went by,

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they were in communication with the two
nearby military bases Rescue Coordination Center in

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Halifax, and there were no missing
or late aircraft, but they saw anything

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in the lights. They were together
even when it was in the air,

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imply that this was an object at
least sixty feet across, and you know,

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this is what they were running with. So Ottawa ordered an underwater search

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that involved Canadian enabled divers that went
on for five days, and you know,

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it remains a mystery, and to
this day the case is open and

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unsolved. But yeah, anyway,
to answer your questions, specifically, the

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guy that attempted he took a deep
neck and it was one of the local

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fishermen who stiled down there, Norman
Smith, and he dipped it in,

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but it would just dissipate, you
know, and you know, just kind

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of evaporate and dissipate sort of thing. It was yellow. Some people claimed

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it smelt faintly of sulfur or some
say it had no odor. But he

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attempted to pick it up in the
dip net and it would just dissipate,

250
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you know. But again, they
were plying their lights on the water.

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They were looking for survivors. And
usually if it's a ditch in the water

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like that, there's there's uh,
you know, there's wreckage, there's oil

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on top of the water. Did
when did they? I guess the question

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is when did they start to suspect
this was unusual, really unusual, and

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not probably a plane. Well,
like I say probably, I'd have to

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say by the next morning, because
you know, at first you're just trying

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to gather your data. You know, you're trying to get your witness statements

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right. And a number of things
played into this, and some of them

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we have just found now. For
example, on born Portage Island there was

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a manned light hose in those days, and that would have had a perfect

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view of this thing when it encountered
the water. And as we now know,

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we discovered that the light keeper's wife
at the time, a woman who

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since remarried, quite elderly now amous
Isabel Towers, was looking out the window

264
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and actually saw the moment of impact. And this is quite new when we

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have a statement from her and details
from people like that. Of course,

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the AIRCNP would have access to all
this, you know, the seven eye

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witnesses they called in when they responded
to the scene and saw what they saw

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themselves with their own eyes as the
thing moved upon the water. Remember one

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of the officers saw it in the
air. They conferred with the radar base

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and RCC and everything, and as
more and more reports come in, and

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these details from the lake keeper's wife, from the coast Guard, from everybody

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involved, from the men the road
and the fishing boats and saw the foam

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and the mountains went out with them. Eventually, you know, again,

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as you confer with and you realize
that Arno missing an aircraft, you have

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to look at the other possibilities.
It's a short list. Yeah, we

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only a couple of minutes to the
break, but I wanted to talk about,

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well, first of all, what
you just said there about the lightkeeper's

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wife. That is basically breaking news. Yes it is. You know,

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there was a lot of confusion about
that. I had attempted to interview the

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light keeper on the island a number
of times over the years. He has

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since deceased, and you know,
he was married twice and had other relationships,

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and we had trouble tracking down the
woman and recently we were lucky enough

283
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to find other relatives of hers that
remained in the Shagarbor area and we tracked

284
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her down in New Brunswick and we're
looking forward down the road at getting more

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detailed than her brief statement that she
left at the time, and you know,

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it's I'm really looking forward to her
right now. I'd already be there,

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except with the concerns about COVID nineteen
and she's dealing with a bad health

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problem in the family. You know, you have to respect that, but

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very much looking forward bringing some more
details about that, because I think that's

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unique to Shake Harbor. I don't
know, since I don't keep that current

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with the literature, but I do
know that when I read books by Jenny

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Randall and Kevin Randalls at in UFO
crash scenarios, nobody ever seems to see

293
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the moment of impact. But we
now have that attached to the case.

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It's very exciting. Did she we
only have a minute left here or so?

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Did she mention why she didn't report
this right off the bat. I

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mean, it seems to me the
first thing she was we wake up her

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husband, who had gone to bed, right and you know, these details

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were passed on. The next thing, you know, they were calling,

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the coast guard was calling him.
They had him do a patrol of the

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shore on the island where the lighthouse
was, and again the next morning.

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And the next morning he claimed to
find an artifact that he packed up and

302
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went off to the US Navy that
that's included in a documentary. I did

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you know he's in the footage right
in the end. It's a last section.

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I believe it was the one called
UFL Files Cole and Canada's Roswell.

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00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,519
Okay, yeah, excellent. Well
it is time for us to go into

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the break, so everyone hanging there
will be right back right after these messages

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justin. Can you hear me?
Yeah? Can you hear me? Yeah?

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It was all said, it was
it was on my end. Uh

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00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:29,960
you know this is actually during the
break on YouTube, but you're actually live.

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00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,960
Yes, sure, all right,
So I just thought i'd bring you

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in and introduce you while we have
a couple of minutes left here and we

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00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,119
will be going back in in a
couple of minutes. But I'm gonna have

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00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,839
to introduce you twice actually, but
I just wanted to say, first of

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00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,160
all, thanks for being on the
show. And the trailer that I played

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00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:55,359
that's titled Edge of mcgonia. That
is your work, is that right?

316
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:59,880
Yeah? That's my work. And
what exactly is the film is just about

317
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,680
Chris Styles. So yeah, as
we all know, Chris has been doing

318
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,400
UFO research for decades and he's sort
of a lone wolf trying to keep this

319
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,359
whole story alive. So what I've
done is I've sort of followed him around

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00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:18,160
since twenty seventeen actually in putting these
these clips together and hope to have someone

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00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:23,400
something released in the next few years
with proper funding and a budget. That's

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00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,880
the idea. The premise of Edge
of Magonia is all there. I think.

323
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,599
Yeah, that always that always holds
a lot of people back. Money,

324
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,240
Yeah, a budget to do a
film especially, there's so much involved

325
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:45,240
in that that people are just unaware
of. Like I had Randall Nickerson on

326
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,319
that he is doing the Ariel Phenomenon
film. I've spoken to a lot of

327
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:55,200
film makers over the years, and
people just have no idea of the work

328
00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:59,599
involved until you actually do it.
It's true, it is a tremendous amount

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00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,079
of work. I mean, the
thing about this movie that I'm making with

330
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,640
Chris is that there's no shortage of
footage. Not only is Chris like constantly

331
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,359
busy. People are always approaching him
for interviews and request for TV shows and

332
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,319
things like that, but there's an
evolving cases as you'll find out down in

333
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,000
Shag Harbor that never ended in sixty
seven and that's also going to be part

334
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:23,720
of that feature documentary and also is
the subject of a short film called Riff

335
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:29,279
that I did that showcase last year
at Alejandro Rojas and Karen's festival down there

336
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:33,759
at the International UFO Congress. Yeah, I shared the stage with Jeremy Corbell

337
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,359
and Jennifer Stein and Peter Robbins,
which was, you know, a huge

338
00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:41,240
momentous success for me as a filmmaker. That was my first film I ever

339
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,799
did, and to share the stage
with them was greatly I lost. I

340
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,799
can't believe we didn't get together when
you were there. I didn't think.

341
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,559
I wasn't there. I was.
I had to film an acceptance speech if

342
00:27:53,599 --> 00:27:57,599
I won, but I got it. Yeah, so it must have been

343
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,359
fun to at least film the scept
and steep. It was definitely weird,

344
00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:07,039
definitely strange. Yeah, there you
go. So Justin, I'm going to

345
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:12,880
also bring in Chris and so here
we are, all three of us.

346
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,799
So, h let's see where do
we begin on this. Justin, first

347
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:21,720
of all, welcome to the show, and you are the filmmaker. You're

348
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,720
making this film. Two films one
you already did that showed in U in

349
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:33,799
Phoenix, the Rift or it's just
rifft right, yeah, and basically in

350
00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:36,799
the nutshell can you kind of give
an overall of what that is. It's

351
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:42,160
about what is going on in the
Shag Harbor area other than you know,

352
00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:45,920
just the event that happened. I'll
leave the exciting part of the story to

353
00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:49,599
Chris because there's a lot of minution
involved, and Chris is, you know,

354
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,079
the prime investigator and all things Shag. And actually Chris was the one

355
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,839
that introduced me to Heather Ducette,
who's the focus of that short film.

356
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,079
The film basically showcases one woman's reconciliation
with being abducted by aliens in the same

357
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:10,839
town. You know that that that
hosted the world's only government document to do

358
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,079
a fox crash. As Chris had
mentioned earlier, um there people often think

359
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,440
that's the that's the beginning at the
end of Shag Harbor, But the truth

360
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,119
is is that for decades, ongoing
strange experiences have been happening, and Heather

361
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:26,920
is one of those people involved.
There are two other women in the same

362
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:33,920
town that claim the same tale.
They're both sisters. So some people side

363
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,279
with Heather and some side with the
sisters. There's definitely an ongoing rift in

364
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:41,440
town. But that's just the beginning
because I'm also shooting a film on a

365
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:45,920
guy from the same town whose claimed
you have seen a sea monster there with

366
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:48,799
his dad and about four other people
from town. It never ends with this

367
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,559
place. Jack Valet should really know
about this place. Wow, that that

368
00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:59,319
is, that is just quite interesting. I've you know, I've oftentimes I've

369
00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:03,519
had um it's been kind of a
hard pill to swallow. The abduction thing,

370
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:10,920
but I I don't I'm open minded
to it. But for me to

371
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,799
say abducted by aliens, it's it's
hard. That's a hard thing for me

372
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:22,000
to to actually picture that's happening.
Although if there, if they can get

373
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:26,200
here, who knows, there may
be some truth to it. I don't

374
00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:29,799
know. Um, you know,
I mean those the words of the two

375
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,039
people is that they think it's aliens. That you know exactly like, I'm

376
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,119
aside with you on that whole scenario. I mean, who am I say

377
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,920
whether it's aliens or not. There's
definitely something engaging human beings. I'm certain

378
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,480
of that right, but we're still
i think, very premature in a revolution

379
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:52,480
to really understand what that interaction is
and what that might possibly be. But

380
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,880
yeah, it's hard to say what
that is, but it presents itself somehow

381
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,640
to these people who truly believe it
as extraterrest rules in some in some cases,

382
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:03,160
you know, I think we should
take a little side step here,

383
00:31:03,839 --> 00:31:08,559
um, Chris and and Justin and
that is I think we should talk about

384
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:15,480
the uh the Cape Uh, I'm
sorry, uh Sable Island sighting. That

385
00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:21,039
is a sighting that you had,
Justin yah and uh Chris, Um,

386
00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:23,960
I know I saw the full footage
of it. Um. You called Chris

387
00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:30,240
on the phone and said get over
here, basically, and there were who

388
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:34,240
were the witnesses that besides you Chris
that came over there was Lorie Wickens actually

389
00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:37,559
one of them. Yeah, yeah, he called me on the way there.

390
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,440
When I received that call from Justin, I was in the town of

391
00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:48,640
Garmouth and I was going down there
to meet somebody. Heather de Sette was

392
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,720
with me, the focus of Justin's
film there, but she was just down

393
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:57,279
to help arrange and make contact with
somebody else that was talking about some of

394
00:31:57,359 --> 00:32:01,240
their UPO experiences. And they were
nothing like abduction. You know, these

395
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:06,720
were sightings from long ago and it
was interesting, and this is from somebody

396
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:10,680
who had a career as a physics
teacher in the town. So I was

397
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:15,559
at the residence and we were just
concluding when I received that call from Justin

398
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,240
at about three pm in the afternoon. He was very excited, telling me

399
00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:23,799
to get down that he'd been filming
a UFO over Cape Sable Island for ten

400
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,039
minutes or so, you know.
So I made my way there as quick

401
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:31,240
as I could. On the way
there, Laurie Wickins contacted me. And

402
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:37,319
I know this soundscrifted, but Laurie
was the first witness to call the RCMP

403
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:40,880
back in October nineteen sixty seven about
the Shake Arbor incident. He called me

404
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,119
up and answered the phonies, where
are you? And I said, well,

405
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,799
I'm in Yarmouth heading toward He said, well, I'm on Cape Sable

406
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,680
Island. There's a UFO over the
island right now. Oh you mean,

407
00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:55,319
Laurie Wikins said, called me while
I was on the way. The first

408
00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,680
call was from Justin right, Yeah, I've got Heather in the cart.

409
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,279
You see what I mean. This
sounds like it's scripted, like, yeah,

410
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:07,519
what are the chances right now?
People have asked me now back in

411
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,079
sixty seven, of course, I
witnessed the UFO that same night and barracas.

412
00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:14,960
It's often explained in the documentaries.
It's been given the term the Night

413
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,720
of the UFOs. Many people that
were sightings over Nova Scotia that night.

414
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:23,319
I've seen the odd thing that's hard
to explain in the sky since, but

415
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,079
nothing that I would say, Hey, that's a UFO, you know,

416
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,240
and it's something unconventional, But you
know, I kept hoping that the chance

417
00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:34,720
would come. The last time that
happened, I was twelve years old,

418
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:37,000
the same night of Shag However,
well, anyway, you know, we

419
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,599
made to the island. Several other
people called me. Justin called back,

420
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,720
what's taking Salon to get there?
And when I arrived on the scene,

421
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:51,160
just picture this doesn't make a great
film clip. I pulled in with Heather

422
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:57,160
d set and I see Justin and
Lorie Wickins coming over the dunes at Cape

423
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,839
Sable towards and I turned to Heather
and I say, do you want me

424
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,039
to translate the look in their face? And of course I'm thinking, Martin

425
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:07,759
that this is a case of the
one that got away, Because many times

426
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:12,119
over the years I've run to reported
sightings or go outside, there's something over

427
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,119
you know, your area right now, or whatever. And of course,

428
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,960
you know, you just hear the
details from others. So when we got

429
00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:21,119
there, they come up with and
they go, what kept us along?

430
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,719
Why? You know you should have
been here? Man, it was really

431
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,760
something. Justin's trying to show me
some of the images that he shot,

432
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,679
you know, with this can and
eos. And we were there long longer

433
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,440
a minute or two when I looked
around and it was gone. And the

434
00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:38,719
next thing, you know, Heather
points up and goes, there it is.

435
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,559
It's back. And we run over
the dunes and down to the water's

436
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,559
edge, and at first I wasn't
very impressed. I see something that just

437
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,199
looks like it could have been anything, could have been the plan of Venus,

438
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,880
could have been a dot. Oh
to see, and it's coming toward

439
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,280
us. But already that Dad has
given me a little something because the winds

440
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,400
at my back and it's coming toward
us. From can see in the direction

441
00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:04,920
where Justin had first filmed this.
As we heard it later it was moving

442
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:07,880
west to east, but now it
was in the east off shore and coming

443
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:14,000
toward us, and it appeared to
be slowly descending at altitude too. Twice

444
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,400
during this period of the sighting,
and there's no footage of this, it

445
00:35:19,559 --> 00:35:22,280
disappeared and reappeared, and the second
time it appeared it was closer, and

446
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,519
you could see the markings that were
in this or the Many people have called

447
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:32,079
them the beams or or or posts
or spokes. They're often referred to inside

448
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:36,920
and some people have suggested that it
looked something like the peace symbol. Well

449
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:44,360
that's what that's not a bad description. The last time it reappeared, justin

450
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,320
it ran over the dunes and got
me my Steiner eight power of binoculars from

451
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,599
the car and I had them pre
focused, and when it reappeared the last

452
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:54,840
time, I had them right on
it, and in my field of view

453
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,840
it appeared, you know, the
size of the full moon, and I

454
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,880
could see some detail inside, and
man, it was strange, you know,

455
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:07,760
the restructure. There was a point
in it where you could look where

456
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,320
it just made no sense at all. It was like some kind of a

457
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,719
transparent mobius strip that folded in on
itself. Very hard to put into words.

458
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,840
And we were so in trance looking
up that you know, at one

459
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,519
point, a little rogue wave came
in and we all got wet feet.

460
00:36:28,559 --> 00:36:30,519
It was quite humorous, like they
would have been made a great film clip.

461
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:35,239
Sometimes a couple of people come up
and asked what we were looking for.

462
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,360
I was just as interested watching the
reaction of the witnesses, you know,

463
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,360
the people around others were seeing it, and it was amazing, you

464
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:49,000
know, justin he was kind of
you could almost I have to say to

465
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,760
him while he said in there listening
that he was a great example of the

466
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,880
ODS factor, you know, he
was his world was just down to that

467
00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:59,239
and that was it. And he
made a great comment. He looked at

468
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,159
me at one point memories saying,
man, it doesn't care. It doesn't

469
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,639
One of the times it reappeared and
it was getting closer and we could see

470
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,639
this was not just a dot.
You could also see it was nothing conventional,

471
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,559
you know, um, and I
know others had put that spin on

472
00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:15,320
it. In fact, many of
the people here that were witnesses. Some

473
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,519
people look got frightened and ran to
their car, as a couple of young

474
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:22,199
girls had. Other people looked up
and shrugged and walked away. You know,

475
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,800
they just said that, yeah,
yeah, when I when I first

476
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:34,519
looked at it, Um, if
I hadn't read your witness testimony testimony account,

477
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,719
I would have thought, you know, maybe when I first looked at

478
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,440
it, I thought maybe that's Venus, And you know, because I know

479
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,760
the daytime, there's daytime you can
see venus sometimes, and then the weather

480
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,559
balloon when I thought it was translucent. And I can read a little bit

481
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,840
of what Mark d' antonio thought,
but that was again before he actually read

482
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:59,239
your testimony about what this thing did. It wasn't just something stable in the

483
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,119
sky or right now, I'm going
to play for the YouTube people. I'm

484
00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:08,360
going to play UM the stabilized version
of this UM as it was being shot.

485
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:15,360
It's about a two minute clip.
I hope, so, I hope.

486
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:20,760
So if not U, if not, it's it's it's not safe for

487
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,320
work, so U no, please, I don't know if I can do

488
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:29,400
that. UM. You know,
I played it and uh before and I

489
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,480
didn't hear any audio on it.
But uh but uh uh, let's give

490
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,880
it a try. And uh,
if it's if it's gonna if I hear

491
00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:42,280
voices and I know what you're gonna
say, I'll try to stop it here

492
00:38:42,360 --> 00:39:07,639
it goes. Can you hear me? Martin right now. Oh, yes

493
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,760
we can. Yes, I'm just
going to describe a little bit about what

494
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:15,679
I was seeing once I took this
footage home and zoomed it in. Luckily

495
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:17,880
I had to tell a photo length
even get this. It was a long

496
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,719
string of synchronicities that even got me
to this point, you know, that

497
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,800
led up to this whole funny scenario
of the original witness of Shag Harbor being

498
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,039
there, the feature of my film
being there, Chris being there, all

499
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:30,960
of whom I call to show up
on the scene for this. When I

500
00:39:31,039 --> 00:39:36,679
took it home and zoomed it in, I noticed some strange things. Mark

501
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,639
di'antonio would be able to explain it
better, perhaps, but you hear a

502
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:44,719
lot in terms of these cases where
you see some kind of aura or almost

503
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,159
a distortion of the pixels around it. When I blew this thing up,

504
00:39:47,199 --> 00:39:51,159
you can almost see a black halo
around the rim of this thing. And

505
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:57,199
I did try to get you a
version of this overexposed with the contrast and

506
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,559
exposure drastically changed so you could see
this black ring and distortion around there.

507
00:40:02,159 --> 00:40:06,719
Once I started playing with the saturation, all kinds of strange colors came out

508
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,079
of this that wasn't visible before that, So I don't know if this is

509
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:13,719
a weather balloon, and if it
was, it's possible that the sun is

510
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:20,679
reflecting off this. But from my
perspective, I had sort of I had

511
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:23,079
almost a religious experience being there,
because if I hadn't been landing my drone

512
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:29,760
shooting that day in Shag about this
guy who saw a see monster and ended

513
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,840
up in this place with a miniature
lighthouse rather than the full size one I

514
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,960
had planned on shooting, I never
would have seen this, and this never

515
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:38,800
would have happened. But when I
had. When I first saw this,

516
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,159
the first thing I thought of was, you know, you've spent your whole

517
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:46,920
life reading about this, and even
though the testimony you've read is legit from

518
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,719
government documents over the decades that you've
been studying this, but to see this

519
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,880
up close and personal, I thought
this was a really UFO. And what

520
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:59,199
it was saying to me was,
why are you questioning this? This is

521
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:05,840
a definite and reaction between us and
it, and if if if that's exactly

522
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,960
what this was, right, Um, well, I've just tried to look

523
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,280
for that image you sent me,
because it is it is uh and it

524
00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:19,559
showed and your your trailer clip there
just just a few minutes ago, kind

525
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:22,320
of a close up of it.
I should have told you too that there's

526
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,840
different download qualities for Vimeo. I
didn't realize until I looked at it myself.

527
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,480
I think it automatically defaults to like
two hundred and forty rather than ten.

528
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,559
Don't get technical on me now,
people and the chat will understand.

529
00:41:35,639 --> 00:41:37,880
But yeah, really like quality.
But if you you know, when you

530
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,000
see the high quality version of the
zoom, it's it's quite impressive. And

531
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:45,679
there was one clip I'm not sure
that anyone but myself is seen where this

532
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,920
thing look ellipped. It looked elliptical
to me because I've got like about an

533
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,239
hour a footage of this thing,
right, and um, it was one

534
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:58,159
point where it almost looked crushed and
was staying consistently crushed across the screen for

535
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:04,039
a period of time. So sort
of makes me want to think that perhaps

536
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,519
it was a weather balloon, or
I'm seeing this thing from a completely different

537
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:14,760
angle as if it's tilted right.
Yeah, my my intuitive impression being on

538
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,480
the scene was that this wasn't a
weather balloon because no one's identified it.

539
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:22,800
Yeah, Well, um, I
did want to. I did want to

540
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:27,599
also, Um, Chris, I
want to get your opinion as well on

541
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:34,800
this because um, as I had
mentioned to you both prior that you know

542
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,719
Mark d Antonio, he's in astronomer
and he's also the chief photo and video

543
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:45,360
analyst stuff for mouf on UM he
was talking about the possibility of this being

544
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,599
a space balloon that was, you
know, actually launched up into space and

545
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,760
you know, and so or or
a weather balloon. You know, that's

546
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,880
what he was thinking after he looked
at it. But UM, I want

547
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,440
you to, Chris, if you
would argue the points and why you don't

548
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:07,559
think it was a weather balloon.
Okay, there are several Like I said,

549
00:43:07,599 --> 00:43:12,599
when I first saw it. Now, the footage that justin the show

550
00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:16,280
in there was over an hour before
I arrived on the scene. I got

551
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:22,599
there for the last seven minutes of
the sighting, and ironically that turned up

552
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,800
to be the best seven minutes.
At that point, all the batteries were

553
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,599
dead, you know, for cameras, and there was no chance of shooting

554
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:31,360
anything. I think I sent you
a little still that I had on my

555
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:35,679
camera though, and that's what I
was looking for. Yeah, Okay,

556
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,039
I'll see if I can find that. Yeah, at the at the last

557
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:42,480
part of the sighting. Here's the
thing. There was no doubt. It

558
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:45,760
disappeared and reappeared. And when I
say disappeared, it was like the throw

559
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,159
of a switch. And here's the
strangest thing. When I got the binoculars

560
00:43:49,199 --> 00:43:53,559
on it, on that last reappearance
it began, it took a second or

561
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:58,079
two to reappear. When it did, it appeared as a black dot at

562
00:43:58,119 --> 00:44:01,519
first, and you noticed that,
And they've been speaking about the black ring

563
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:05,599
that appeared around it, you know. I mean, if you see this

564
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,480
here on a good monit or even
as raw footage is very discernible. But

565
00:44:08,639 --> 00:44:14,079
that last reappearance, it started as
a black dot and it actually flared out

566
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:17,320
and it almost looked like a reverse
imat of when you see a good shot

567
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:22,599
at the moment of totality and a
solar eclipse, except that the parrot that

568
00:44:22,679 --> 00:44:27,559
would be bright would be black,
and it was the blackness that was blaring

569
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,760
out until again it just became that
white thing with the blue beams inside of

570
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,360
it. Then, So how that
is, I don't know. The other

571
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,760
strange thing about the weather balloon that
was investigated of course, move Fond did

572
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:45,000
an investigation into this and it was
handled by Ryan Stacy was their director of

573
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:51,800
investigations at the time. It's case
nine five four four two. And initially

574
00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:55,880
they thought, and I had trouble
understanding this, that we were seeing the

575
00:44:57,079 --> 00:45:04,599
star l tear now at three o'clock
in the afternoon on an unusually clear day.

576
00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:07,400
Yes, you can see Venus.
You can't see the brightest star in

577
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:14,320
the sky, which is in the
southern hemisphere. You definitely don't see the

578
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:19,679
twelfth brightest star in the sky.
But the disappearance and reappearance is the thing

579
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,079
that nixes to me the possibility of
an astronomical explanation or that of a weather

580
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:27,079
bloom. The other thing is I
looked in for two launches. I mean,

581
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,679
we're investigating the whole thing, and
so did and so did move On.

582
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:34,679
In the end they listed it as
an unknown. One of the other

583
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,719
interesting things is the exact same kind
of sighting occurred a year before over Mattawa,

584
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,360
Ontario, and again the firm of
the report of that he had been

585
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:49,320
ocutors on it and you had taken
some stills of it and again had the

586
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,639
smoke patterned inside it. And the
kind of crazy details that I've reported.

587
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:57,320
They don't show up that great Injustice
video, but you can see it on

588
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,039
a good computer and a good one
or it's definitely there. But like I

589
00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:02,719
said, I was there for the
last seven minutes and it was the most

590
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,320
dramatic. I mean, the two
disappearances and reappearances really did it. And

591
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:09,880
you know, the people that were
standing with us in a group of the

592
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,559
beach when it would reappear, they
go, there it is, that's back,

593
00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:15,000
you know, when it would reappear, and there was no haze or

594
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:20,960
cloud cover or anything. So yeah, it was a crystal clear day about.

595
00:46:21,079 --> 00:46:23,760
Yeah, very unusual for Nova Scotia, you know. And ironically,

596
00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:28,800
we drove through a dense fog bank
in Shag Harbor to get there. When

597
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,880
we were coming from here Amoutha.
We tried to take a shortcut that heather

598
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:37,079
It suggested, and the fog was
so thick you couldn't see fifty feet and

599
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,400
we come out the other side of
it. We go across the causeway and

600
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:45,840
you couldn't have is the most transparent
atmosphere we've ever seen around here in the

601
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:51,039
daytime. There there, it is
right there. Yeah, yeah, that

602
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,840
spoke pattern in it. People have
described it like the peace symbol, and

603
00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:00,960
that's exactly what was seen in Mattauantario
fifty weeks before that in twenty seventeen.

604
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:07,639
Could someone argue that that was like
equipment to a weather balloon below? I

605
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,440
mean, has someone argued that.
No, actually no, people have suggested

606
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,239
the possibility of a weather balloon.
But in a weather balloon you can see

607
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:20,039
the olypical shape and the radio saun
package hanging beneath it. Right. The

608
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:22,920
other thing is, in the last
seven minutes, this was going against the

609
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:29,440
wind and it was descending an altitude
until the final disappearance. You know,

610
00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:32,519
weather balloons, I've watched many of
them that are launched from Yarmouth and from

611
00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:36,440
Shearwater. I live in Shearwater.
I live in my way from it,

612
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,880
and they go up pretty rapid.
You get pretty used to seeing them.

613
00:47:39,159 --> 00:47:43,679
There's many many clips of that on
YouTube where you can see how they rise

614
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,719
and even to the point of where
they finally burst and you see that sort

615
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,360
of mist come out of them.
You know, it's something I've seen many

616
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:57,559
many times. This was not that, yeah, and the shape of it,

617
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,400
I guess if you were looking at
a their balloon. From underneath,

618
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:05,599
you would see more of a round
shape, but a lot of them are

619
00:48:05,679 --> 00:48:09,199
like oval oblong. Yes, because
the weight of the radio saw and package

620
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,840
hanging, Yes, they get an
elliptical shape, you know, being tucked

621
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,719
down by the way the mass.
Yeah, and there's actually descending an altitude

622
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:22,400
makes it certainly curious to at least. Yeah, Yeah, it was.

623
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:27,119
It was odd, you know,
and like I said, there were many

624
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:30,360
other witnesses. About three weeks after
the event, we did a little thing

625
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,079
and showed this and some of the
clips and explained what we've seen. And

626
00:48:35,679 --> 00:48:37,840
uh, there were about sixty people
showed up in the little museum, you

627
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:43,119
know. It was I actually had
to do a second presentation, you know,

628
00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:45,039
to get everybody in so they could
view the clips and they could give

629
00:48:45,079 --> 00:48:49,519
their details. But many, many
people had recorded this, you know,

630
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:57,039
and it was interesting. Yeah,
and what what was What was Muffan's take

631
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,800
on this when you reported it?
Like I say, initially, you know,

632
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,360
I'd sent what I had with them, you know, I'd sent Justin's

633
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,760
clip and the other details I had. I'd already looked of course into wind

634
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:15,719
speed, direction, weather balloon launches
that and I was passing whatever I had

635
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,000
onto them, and it was investigated
by Ryan Stacy, the director of investigations,

636
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,280
and their initial findings was that it
was possible it could have been the

637
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:29,119
star l tear, which I don't
see either. You know, Yes,

638
00:49:29,199 --> 00:49:31,960
you can see Venus and Jupiter in
the daytime under great conditions, you don't

639
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:37,400
see stars in the daytime. And
there was a great article I'd read under

640
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,880
that title, you know, can
you see stars in the daytime? On

641
00:49:40,039 --> 00:49:44,239
Science Digest, And that kind of
puts it to bed when you read that.

642
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,519
Anyway, they changed it to an
unknown listing on that case nine five

643
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:55,800
four four two and there it's it's
you know, but it sparked me.

644
00:49:55,960 --> 00:50:00,320
It was funny, you know,
Like I say, I remember just much

645
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,199
watching justin watching all the other witnesses, the reactions on the beach, and

646
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,800
that was something that was went everything
from complete apathy to fear. Yeah,

647
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:13,440
you know, some people saw it
for what it was. Some people didn't

648
00:50:13,519 --> 00:50:17,000
really see it, but it was
it was a second kick at the can

649
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:20,559
for me, and it sparked me
to consider a lot, how I would

650
00:50:20,599 --> 00:50:27,679
call minority theories as to what may
be behind this. I've always believed you

651
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,360
know, when people introduce me and
I'm on the stage, I always try

652
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,239
to get them to say I have
a blended view of the phenomena, where

653
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,880
yes, I have room for the
extraterrestrial hypothesis, but I also think that

654
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,760
there's a strong psychological component to this
and a lot of things we don't understand.

655
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:50,280
I also think that the category of
unknowns, the ones that hold up

656
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:55,679
under close scrutiny, have multiple causes, you know, which may ultimately be

657
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,280
conventional. And I think some of
the audios that were popular are in the

658
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:01,960
field, you know, back in
the sixties and the seventies that have been

659
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:07,480
abandoned are still valid. And one
thing the sighting did was kind of charged

660
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:09,880
my battery and reconsider them. You
know, when you look at the behavior

661
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:14,559
a lot of these sightings, particularly
of the spheres and orbs and lights at

662
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:19,800
night, particularly in terms of aircraft
sightings, pilot sightings and sightings like this,

663
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:22,480
is that sometimes some of the behavior, when you look at it all,

664
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:28,320
it's very reminiscent of cat and most
behavior you know of a of a

665
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,360
living thing. You're not the first
one I've heard say that, yes,

666
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,840
and I think some of that work, some of the work, and not

667
00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:40,320
some of it from people like I
don't know if you're familiar with Trevor Constable

668
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:47,400
and his books from New Zealand.
But he believed that there were creatures like

669
00:51:47,559 --> 00:51:52,880
this that we're living in the upper
atmosphere. Oh yes, and sometimes they

670
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,840
were visible. Certain things would happen. And you know, one of the

671
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,039
interesting theories he had back then.
I forget which book, it's not the

672
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:04,480
more common one. Anyway, here's
the thing. He thought that sometimes powerful

673
00:52:04,599 --> 00:52:07,599
radar, military radar would affect these
things and they get too close, and

674
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,119
it was one of the things that
would make them visible. And he used

675
00:52:10,159 --> 00:52:15,880
to try to take pictures of this
with ultra violet light, which ultra violet

676
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:20,079
film, which he thought might pick
them up. And in some cases maybe

677
00:52:20,159 --> 00:52:22,800
it did. Maybe it did,
and there was nothing there that impressive.

678
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:24,280
But he had this theory. And
when you think about that, and we

679
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:30,719
looked right across the water from the
beach on Cape Sable Island, you know

680
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,599
Daniel's Head beach. I look right
across them. What's there but the big

681
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,199
Nora geodesic dome over the automated station. Now that's that end of the pine

682
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:45,280
tree line for Nora d so about
that that came back to me. So,

683
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,239
but you know, just in general, I think a lot of these

684
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,320
things. You know, there's one
of the things. The other thing now

685
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,679
is you know, there's some huge
revolutions going on even in the field of

686
00:52:53,760 --> 00:53:00,559
biology, some theories that are starting
to gain a bit attraction. I don't

687
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:04,880
know if you've heard or you're aware
that, you know, some biologists are

688
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:10,800
considering what they call a shadow biosphere, that such a thing may exist with

689
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:17,320
us right now, and that it's
basically unnoticed and you know, represent something

690
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:22,480
that's really different. Then again,
there were certain details of the siding that

691
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:24,719
when you really get close to them
you start analyzing, including some of the

692
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,639
photo analysis that move on set me
that they did later. You know,

693
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,320
you could look at it, you
could come up with theories that involve some

694
00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:37,800
trains dimensional aspect, but the shadow
biosphere. And then again, I'm not

695
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,880
ready to put the eth to bed
either, but when you look at the

696
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,400
behavior or some of these things,
you know, it's very much like a

697
00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:50,039
cat and most behavior, you know, and you've got to keep an open

698
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:53,400
mind. Yeah. Absolutely, justin
I want to thank you for stopping by

699
00:53:53,559 --> 00:53:59,800
and sharing everything with you and just
a real quick question. What was your

700
00:54:00,119 --> 00:54:02,960
feeling during I mean, you seemed
really excited. I listened to the the

701
00:54:04,119 --> 00:54:09,480
video with the audio. Yeah,
I did this. What was your overall

702
00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:13,599
feeling about the whole thing? I
mean, we're kind of blown away by

703
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:15,079
it. You see, your shure
seemed like it. Yeah. I mean

704
00:54:16,559 --> 00:54:20,840
one minute, I'm there filming and
I don't see anything. In the next

705
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,519
minute, it's where were you filming? Where were you actually filming? I

706
00:54:24,639 --> 00:54:29,840
was filming right down the road from
heather Do sets place, right down the

707
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,280
road from where the UFO crashed in
sixty seven in Shag Harbor, right around

708
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,840
the corner from the beach where I
met Lori and Chris and Heather on Daniel's

709
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:43,960
Head Beach, just to get film
footage for I was doing b roll for

710
00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:46,559
background footage for my Monster movie.
Right, So, my impression when this

711
00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:52,000
thing showed up was it's a ping
pong ball. And then you know,

712
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:54,960
I had a mental aberration. I
thought that's impossible, and then I was

713
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,119
like, Okay, it must be
a bag or something. So my first

714
00:54:59,159 --> 00:55:01,360
impression was end the drone back up
as far as possible, because I could

715
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:06,360
get that thing up a couple of
miles and yeah, and on the way

716
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,920
up, you know, it was
on me. It was at the end

717
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,760
of its battery life, so I
had to land it. I couldn't get

718
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,360
it. All my cameras other than
the one that I filmed with died,

719
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:20,320
and that one eventually died on the
beach. When Chris arrived. My initial

720
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,199
impression was, this is very unusual, and it's freaking me out because I'm

721
00:55:24,199 --> 00:55:27,480
all alone and I wasn't even supposed
to be here, and I am.

722
00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:31,760
And my intuitive sense was as corny
as this sounds, because I hear it

723
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:36,199
all the time, super cliche,
but it's like, this thing's here for

724
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,599
me. I can't explain why I
thought that, but there were too many

725
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:45,599
weird coincidences that put me at this
spot with this miniature lighthouse. I don't

726
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,920
why was I in that particular place
when I was supposed to be somewhere else

727
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,159
not wasn't even supposed to really be
there, right, Yeah, And witnessing

728
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,440
this thing and experiencing it sort of
I almost had a religious experience. Like

729
00:55:57,519 --> 00:56:00,199
once I zoomed in with the telephoto
lens and I saw what I saw with

730
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,920
the trendslucent blue in the center of
the spokes and the ominousness of how slowly

731
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,400
it moved over me. Nothing moved
this There was wind, gus, but

732
00:56:08,519 --> 00:56:14,320
nothing moved this thing. It was
in a steady traversity over top of me,

733
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:19,920
towards the beach. So you know, I'm my own best skeptic.

734
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,039
So I never want to jump in. Chris will tell you that right away.

735
00:56:23,159 --> 00:56:27,119
But I can't help to think about
how strange this is. Not only

736
00:56:27,199 --> 00:56:30,119
that, but how strange it made
me feel, because it almost felt like

737
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:35,639
I was communicating with this thing on
some strange level. I know on corny

738
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,800
that sounds or it was communicating with
me somehow to reassure me that, you

739
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:44,039
know, we all need to be
more open minded to the fact that our

740
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:47,719
egos really need to disappear for us
to understand our place in the cosmos.

741
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,559
And we're only beginning to get there. Yeah, yeah, that's a good

742
00:56:52,599 --> 00:56:55,400
point about the egos. But regardless
of a weather balloon or not, this

743
00:56:55,599 --> 00:56:59,360
is where we need to be going
as a people. I think, Yeah,

744
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:02,360
all right, well said justin thank
you and again it's it's always been

745
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:07,719
a pleasure and hope to meet you
again someday. Thanks everybody. It's great

746
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,079
to be here, Martin. It's
it's been a pleasure, all right.

747
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:14,119
You take care, thank you?
All right, all right, so let's

748
00:57:14,159 --> 00:57:17,320
get right back into Shag Harbor if
we can. Chris, you know,

749
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,159
that was a really good jag though
very interesting, um you know updated.

750
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:27,840
But one of the things I want
to ask you is about the There's some

751
00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:32,079
myths, and I'm not sure if
they're myths, but there is something that

752
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:40,119
I had heard, I don't know
several years ago about the divers um actually

753
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,400
talking about what they saw while they
were that they actually did see something and

754
00:57:45,639 --> 00:57:51,079
like it was a rescue mission underneath
underneath the water. Is that Is that

755
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:57,239
a myth? Well, I've actually
not heard that it was a rescue mission,

756
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:02,719
so that parts. Yeah, Actually, that's the first time I've heard

757
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:10,400
that really. Yeah. I actually
attempted to interview all of the seven divers

758
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:15,639
that were sent down, right,
only two spoke with me when they were

759
00:58:15,679 --> 00:58:17,840
two alive, and back when I
wrote the first little book with Don Leger,

760
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:27,920
we agreed to grant them immunity.
But it's a very limited immunity.

761
00:58:28,039 --> 00:58:30,920
You know, there wasn't all that
many people in the fleet diving unit in

762
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:37,880
those days. In Halifax, and
you know, we knew who was there.

763
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,519
And like I say, two of
the men talked very openly to me,

764
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,639
and I never heard those claims.
What I did here was that when

765
00:58:46,719 --> 00:58:53,480
they were arrived in Shag Harbor,
they knew that the object was no longer

766
00:58:53,559 --> 00:58:59,000
they were resting on the bottom,
and of course the last known service position,

767
00:58:59,079 --> 00:59:04,599
it was seen moving toward open sea. But okay, whether therefore you

768
00:59:04,719 --> 00:59:07,519
move on from there? When you
say that it was seen moving out to

769
00:59:07,679 --> 00:59:12,880
open sea? Does is that on
radar or sonar? I mean no,

770
00:59:13,159 --> 00:59:15,920
no, this is just visibly that
night while it's on the surface. Because

771
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,119
remember when this thing hits the water, when the RCMP and the crowd of

772
00:59:19,159 --> 00:59:22,400
witnesses show up by the moss plant, right, this thing is still floating

773
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:27,239
on the surface. Oh it's still
a long time. The mount he saw

774
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,679
this thing. You know when they
got there, it wasn't gone right.

775
00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:35,239
In fact, you know, to
paint the picture for you. You met

776
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,199
Lorie Wickens, I think you remember
give us the first person to call the

777
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,679
RCMP that night, and like all
others, he simply reported that lights are

778
00:59:40,719 --> 00:59:45,920
a plane and crashed, that you
guys better get here. And when he

779
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,440
hung up in the phone. Remember
there's no there was no street lights down

780
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:52,079
there in those days. Above the
road, it's dark. The moon had

781
00:59:52,119 --> 00:59:57,760
already sat right, there's no cell
phone. They had to drive up the

782
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,159
road a bit further and call the
rc and Pete Attachment and Parenting passage on

783
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:06,559
a public phone, you know,
a phone booth. And when they called

784
01:00:06,599 --> 01:00:09,760
in and reported that, you know, the mountay didn't seem that and press

785
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,400
said yeah, well they'll check into
it, and we hung up the phone.

786
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,880
The friends in the carbon lorry were
saying, like, the mountain's coming,

787
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,800
the mountain's coming. They're quite excited
because that again they thought they'd seen

788
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,480
a plane crash. And he's saying, well, I'm not sure they believe

789
01:00:22,519 --> 01:00:24,280
me, and he was starting to
get in the car. They were going

790
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:29,159
to leave the scene. The phone
rang and the RCNP callback said, Wickens,

791
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:30,719
are you still there? We'll stay
there, We're on the way,

792
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,280
And he said, well, I
can still see it off shorts all over

793
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,199
the water. Stay there, we're
on the way. Well, by that

794
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,920
time, six other people had called
in from other locations around the area to

795
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,280
report the same thing. So but
when the RCNP got there, they still

796
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,199
saw it. Remember, like I
said, there were three officers that responded.

797
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,880
Two would come from the detachment.
The third officer Ron Pond, He

798
01:00:52,039 --> 01:00:57,159
was actually on Cape Sable Island on
highway patrol and he saw it in the

799
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,719
air, and of course when he
got to the scene it was still on

800
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:05,360
the are moving around. Did they
describe what they actually what the object actually

801
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:10,039
looked like when it's in the air. People just simply saw the lights and

802
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:15,440
you know, four lights flashing in
the sequence I described earlier, right the

803
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:20,519
way they moved together. The implication
is that their lights attached to you know,

804
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,639
once solid object that was described by
everybody has been at least sixty feet

805
01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:30,360
across. In fact, you know
from the composite information to the Mounties that

806
01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:35,159
was passed on to Canadian Forces headquarters. There's a memo that went through you

807
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:37,480
know ibocopy. It's one of the
many documents we had that came from D

808
01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:42,440
and D and I received it on
a request before it got included in NARG

809
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:47,639
seventy seven and National Archives. And
the thing is it says quite clearly in

810
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:52,639
that our preliminary investigation has been conducted. This is thirty six hours after the

811
01:01:52,719 --> 01:02:00,079
incident by the Rescue Coordination Center in
Halifax, and it has been determined that

812
01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:05,039
this object was at least sixty feet
across, was circular in nature, and

813
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:12,320
was in fact not a missing aircraft
flare float or in fact is no known

814
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,880
object. And this is on a
report that went to the Defense Minister,

815
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:21,119
so you know, the composite of
details they felt that strong and that's why

816
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:27,320
they decided to order an underwater search
asap. Wow. All right. Another

817
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:31,800
one of the myths I guess that
I have heard, and you know,

818
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:38,360
perhaps it's just maybe I read in
the wrong places or whatever, but that

819
01:02:39,159 --> 01:02:45,079
they thought the object had traveled a
good distance underwater. Yes, all right,

820
01:02:45,239 --> 01:02:51,039
yeah, And well, myths or
not, The story is that they

821
01:02:51,119 --> 01:02:54,400
had believed that, yes, the
largely intact object had left the area and

822
01:02:54,519 --> 01:03:00,400
had traveled underwater up up to the
coast off Shelburne and came to on the

823
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:07,599
seabed near Government Point, that which
is the location of the former US base

824
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:14,039
CFS shelburn And that was the Coordination
Center was Canada's most secret base. It

825
01:03:14,239 --> 01:03:21,199
functioned under a cover story being a
biological research station. It was like the

826
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:27,599
coordination center for submarine detection for the
hot Lantic Ocean was hardwired to a base

827
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:31,000
in Argentian, Upland and Key West, Florida, and they basically microphone the

828
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:36,519
whole ocean. The cables for that
and the controlling data all arrived ashore right

829
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:39,079
down at Shelburn at Government Point.
You can still see where the cables came

830
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:45,840
out of the water to this day. So how well documented is that that

831
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:50,800
they think the object moved there?
Well, this is what the divers told

832
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,440
me. There. Here's where it
gets strictly, we have a wealth of

833
01:03:54,559 --> 01:04:00,000
data and documentation. We actually have
many of the military telexes that went between

834
01:04:00,199 --> 01:04:04,440
the basis, you know, regarding
the search and shag Harder. We have

835
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:10,000
nothing that confirms this story told to
me by two of the gram by divers

836
01:04:10,079 --> 01:04:14,760
from the Fleet Diving unit, that
this thing sat off Shelbury, although in

837
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,280
the story there's actually more to it. They claimed that when the naval ships

838
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:23,639
and the divers arrived and they held
station over this point, when they went

839
01:04:23,719 --> 01:04:27,239
down, what they claimed was that
there was in fact two echoes there and

840
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,880
one was lending assistance to the other. That's what I was talking about,

841
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:32,599
That's right, yeah, And that's
what was told me, and I can

842
01:04:32,599 --> 01:04:38,719
remember at the time being so this
may sound funny now inherent to believe,

843
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,599
but believe me, in the beginning, I was really cheesed off by this

844
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:45,239
when they told me that, because
I thought like I was hoping to avoid

845
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:50,280
those kind of situations, like we're
already problematic even at that point. You

846
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:54,400
know, in the early nineties in
Roswell, you know, where you had,

847
01:04:55,599 --> 01:04:59,199
you know, different versions of what
happened and who was involved and who

848
01:04:59,239 --> 01:05:01,000
saw what. I just thought,
well, you know, I hadn't seen

849
01:05:01,159 --> 01:05:04,559
that. I hadn't heard that before. I don't remember from the media back

850
01:05:04,639 --> 01:05:09,679
in the day. It wasn't being
reflected in the documents. So I just

851
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,760
kind of put it off, and
to me it was problematic. I didn't

852
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:15,960
like it. But as time went
by, it was clear you can't pick

853
01:05:16,039 --> 01:05:19,920
or choose your data because what we
did find is that this story hit legs

854
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:25,480
and it just kept resurfacing. And
eventually what happened is there was documents a

855
01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:31,320
surface like an RCMPX file that did
refer to a second simultaneous search for a

856
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:39,960
UFO off Shelburn. So yes,
yeah, I found that at Saint Mary's

857
01:05:40,039 --> 01:05:44,360
University in Halifax. Among the papers
of the late father Michael Burke Gaffney.

858
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:49,159
He was the astronomer that started the
program there. He also would investigate UFOs

859
01:05:49,199 --> 01:05:54,800
at the time. He was like
a community contact for things on the East

860
01:05:54,840 --> 01:06:00,679
Coast and worked closely with the air
desk in Ottawa. You know, go

861
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,000
ahead, Oh no, no,
go finish your thought first. Well,

862
01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:09,199
I'll tell you too that. You
know, one of the things I did

863
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,360
is I went to Ottawa and I
went through and looked for paperwork there and

864
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:16,880
files that couldn't be transferred to Halifax. There were files I knew that existed

865
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:23,039
that weren't part you know. The
RG seventy seven is a collection they had

866
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:27,159
up there that deals with UFO sightings
from the early sixties up into the eighties,

867
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,679
and that was available, you know, through the Inner Library loaner system.

868
01:06:31,039 --> 01:06:34,199
You get us sent down to look
at it, little eight millimeter roles

869
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:38,079
of film. And I looked at
all that stuff, but I knew there

870
01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:42,360
were documents being held up there that
weren't transferable, and we're in a law

871
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,599
and I eventually got a grant from
the Fund for UFO Research, went up

872
01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:49,039
there and went through them. Found
some more stuff, but nothing that would

873
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:53,119
knock you over. But while I
was in town, I managed to get

874
01:06:53,159 --> 01:06:58,280
a three hour face to face interview
with one of the people that ran the

875
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,440
air desk back in the day,
which Squadron leader William Bain. And he

876
01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:06,320
was the one who was quoted in
the Halifax Ronical Herald and all the press

877
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:11,079
coverage at the time in both the
Shag Harbor incident. And he was one

878
01:07:11,119 --> 01:07:14,480
of two majors, you know,
plus a colonel and the other support staff

879
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:17,679
that ran the air desk, which
was Canada's equivalent of Blue Book. And

880
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,880
I talked to him and he believed
that this was a genuine case that you

881
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,199
know, they weren't mistaken. It
wasn't space jump. There was only six

882
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,400
hundred things in orbit then right ironically
it was ten years to the day after

883
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,400
the launch of Sputnick. Oh my
goodness, yeah, isn't it funny?

884
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:38,440
Ten years? And but you know, we talked a lot about it,

885
01:07:38,599 --> 01:07:41,320
and of course one of the things
I bounced off him and I wanted to

886
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:45,639
hear the answer, for he had
no idea, had never heard the Shelbourn

887
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,760
story, you know, of the
this second simultaneous search or whatever. And

888
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,280
I showed him why I think it
may have happened. I told him what

889
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:58,639
the divers told me. I showed
him a copy the RCMPX Wile and other

890
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:05,639
things like that that were porting that
it may have happened. And he speculated

891
01:08:05,679 --> 01:08:12,480
to me it was possible that they'd
been stick handled by the Americans. Remember

892
01:08:12,559 --> 01:08:15,840
that base at the time had just
come under dual control. Originally it flew,

893
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:19,359
you know, it was just a
US base on Canadian soil. But

894
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,920
in a couple of years before it
had come by an arrangement where you know,

895
01:08:24,039 --> 01:08:28,600
they would alternate you know, commanding
officers and other things. And it

896
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,119
was fifty percent manned by Canadians a
fifty percent by Americans, and the data

897
01:08:32,199 --> 01:08:34,920
was shared and let I say,
it had a very important function there,

898
01:08:35,079 --> 01:08:41,760
right. You know me, I'm
one of these things. I'm like a

899
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,760
dog with a bone. I just
kept going at it. I'd look up

900
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:49,760
in the weekly newspapers at the time
and tried to find things that would you

901
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:55,239
know, that they couldn't control that
it would show in other areas. But

902
01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:57,720
in the end, no, there
was nothing that concrete. You know,

903
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:01,920
it remains a story. It may
may always be I don't know, but

904
01:09:04,279 --> 01:09:06,560
you know, it's a hard one
to understand. And one of the things

905
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:12,960
that's interesting too is, you know, when I looked at the newspaper that

906
01:09:13,119 --> 01:09:16,920
was closest to the event, which
was the one in Shelburne, there was

907
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,600
no coverage of the Shag Harbor and
said, every and all the other weeklies,

908
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:24,359
every other paper in the province covered
it. You know, lots of

909
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:29,319
press, right, lots of speciulation, yes. And the stringer for that

910
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:35,920
paper was a guy who the reporter
was Major Victor Eldrich, who was the

911
01:09:36,119 --> 01:09:42,279
EXO at the base. So I
went and I called him, and he

912
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,039
claimed he didn't know what I was
talking about. And I started reading the

913
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:46,800
story to him back in the day, and he asked me what I was

914
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:48,479
trying to do, and I said, well, I'm just trying to get

915
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,359
to the truth. I was hoping
I wouldn't put a little pressure on,

916
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,880
I said, I hope I wasn't
going to have to resort the speculation as

917
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,000
your role in this, he told
me I should be very careful hung out.

918
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,319
Oh my odd yeah, And being
the kind of guy was back then,

919
01:10:02,359 --> 01:10:05,600
I drove right to his house and
knocked on his door in the Arab

920
01:10:06,399 --> 01:10:11,239
and went to him confront of him
about it, and he told me I

921
01:10:11,279 --> 01:10:13,640
should be very careful, you know
what I mean, you know, just

922
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:15,560
one call and I wouldn't go on
about it. But I knocked his door,

923
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,359
opened the door. I said,
I was the guy on the phone.

924
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:19,319
I said, you tell the guy. I said, he pays your

925
01:10:19,359 --> 01:10:25,439
bench and check. Too dumb to
quit and I left. Yeah, that's

926
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,399
all. I'll never forget it.
You know, how about that? I

927
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:30,600
was, I was, I was
still jazzed up. It was all new

928
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,479
then, it was. It was
like that. Anyway, I'm in Ottawa

929
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:39,039
right and I'm talking to squadron leader
William Bean. He should know. He'd

930
01:10:39,079 --> 01:10:42,520
never heard of the Shelburn story.
I was very disappointed that, but I

931
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,399
took him at his word, and, like say, he speculated a bit.

932
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:48,279
He even told me that he'd had
us both sightings as an S two

933
01:10:48,399 --> 01:10:53,439
subtracker pilot about the ghost of Nova
Scotia, ironically one hundred miles off the

934
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:58,680
Ghost Corps Shelburn. So you know, he seemed to be very honest about

935
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:00,279
this, but he believed that was
a j one case. You know.

936
01:11:01,039 --> 01:11:06,880
Wow, Now, was Wilbert Wilbert
Smith alive that at that time he was

937
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:11,720
not. He died at sixty two. Oh I see, okay, I

938
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,119
was wondering if he was up.
Yeah, so I just had my years

939
01:11:15,159 --> 01:11:19,279
off on that. Um. Now, let's talk about how this became an

940
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:26,840
official UFO that was actually determined to
be a UFO by the military, which

941
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:31,680
is the only case that you know, until recently with the Pentagon actually admitting

942
01:11:32,359 --> 01:11:38,439
you know, these videos, this
was the only other case the military basically

943
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:43,119
had admitted that. Right well,
you know when they terminated the search,

944
01:11:44,279 --> 01:11:47,720
m you know, after the five
day underwater search they conducted in the area,

945
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:54,680
right Um, you know they're saying, you know, no results of

946
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:58,399
the search effort. We don't know
what it was, no missing or lady

947
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,199
aircraft. It was one of those
things. We never knew what we're looking

948
01:12:01,279 --> 01:12:05,720
for. As a result, the
case remains open and unsolved. But what

949
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:11,399
we do know is the cases like
that Stephen Mischelich and others were referred to

950
01:12:12,079 --> 01:12:17,760
in documents that are archived in National
Library and Archives Canada as it's called now,

951
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:24,279
that state quite clearly that these were
cases that seemed to indicate something real

952
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:29,000
on the ground and was the reason
why they closed the air desk and handed

953
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:33,399
it over to the National Research Council
for what they deemed serious scientific investigation.

954
01:12:34,199 --> 01:12:38,039
However, that didn't quite pan out
that way. It did. For the

955
01:12:38,119 --> 01:12:42,680
first few years they had a couple
of very dedicated staffers in the form of

956
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:48,880
a geologist from Nova Scotia and professor
at the University of Toronto, but they

957
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:54,239
eventually weren't replaced, they didn't call
on field units, and by nineteen ninety

958
01:12:54,319 --> 01:12:58,159
nine they were Canada was out of
the business officially, But of course,

959
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:01,119
you know, when these things happened, they still look into them. You

960
01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:04,760
know, there may not be a
repository for the reports that's available to the

961
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:09,439
public, but they still do.
By the way, the guy who gave

962
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:14,199
me the veiled threat not so veiled
threat, and who wrote that story a

963
01:13:14,359 --> 01:13:17,199
month later, when I was going
through and looking for things I'd missed.

964
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,880
On November second, this is a
month after the shak Harbor incident, he

965
01:13:23,039 --> 01:13:26,760
put an appeal with his name on
it in every newspaper in Nova Scotia,

966
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:31,039
saying military once UFOs reported, how
to get hold of them? Really yes,

967
01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:33,680
and his name is on a major
vick out. It's on the front

968
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,840
page in those papers. On November
second, but he had no interest.

969
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:40,279
He didn't know what I was talking
about. He could threaten me, so

970
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,960
it was still a hot potato in
some circles. Yeah, isn't that amazing?

971
01:13:45,279 --> 01:13:47,680
So you said earlier, you were
twelve years old when this happened.

972
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:53,640
When did you actually start looking into
the nineteen ninety two, ninety three My

973
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,600
first actor, who Folowedy was.
I think a letter I wrote to Stanton

974
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:02,479
Freeman after watching a rerun of Solved
Mysteries right, a partner of a former

975
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,479
girlfriend of mine dared me to do
it, saying I kept saying I was

976
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:10,000
gonna see goes. No, you
won't know. You made me call him

977
01:14:10,079 --> 01:14:13,680
up right there. Turned out I
called this is in the battle days before

978
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,720
calling plans. He wasn't at home. A human answering service answer and give

979
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,239
me a number. And I called
it and he was in Austin, Texas,

980
01:14:20,279 --> 01:14:23,640
about to go to a talk.
He talked to me for twenty or

981
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:28,359
thirty minutes, gave me a bit
of sage advice that started me off on

982
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:30,600
the thing. The first thing he
said, I'll tell you this, mart

983
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:33,760
You'll like this. Stanton was a
freed and said, well, you know,

984
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,560
he says I don't remember that,
and eventually he did remember. Wait

985
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:41,079
a minute, he goes something about
the harbor turning yellow or something, and

986
01:14:41,159 --> 01:14:43,640
he said, well, i'll help
you know, I'll talk to some friends

987
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:46,199
at the fund pret arb Research,
and I'll see what else. And he

988
01:14:46,279 --> 01:14:49,840
put me onto people that were very
helpful to me with the fund and from

989
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:56,239
move on. However, you'll like
this, he says, you're in luck.

990
01:14:56,399 --> 01:14:59,439
He goes, fisherman, don't move, and he gave me all that

991
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,560
kind of grea little practical advice,
and I jumped right on it, you

992
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:06,760
know, and I figured, well, it's better than collecting stamps or some

993
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,800
hobby like that. And I was
over the blocks. I made lots of

994
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,399
mistakes, i'll tell you, but
I was persistent and persistence pays off,

995
01:15:15,159 --> 01:15:17,680
right. Yeah, yeah, that's
what you're You're definitely known for that used

996
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:23,199
to call me a bulldog. People
say who's Chris Styles? Like you notice

997
01:15:23,239 --> 01:15:26,960
that that that little catchy crypto tries
to make me look mysterious. There that

998
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:31,960
in this clip that present here.
I just wanted to say the answer because

999
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,479
I know what Stanton would say.
That's what he always I think of Who's

1000
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:41,840
Chris Styles? Because Chris Chris as
a bulldog. So when like, as

1001
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,319
the years go on, you're you're
you're still fascinated by this case, obviously,

1002
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,199
yeah, and you're still I mean, how do you how do you

1003
01:15:49,319 --> 01:15:55,000
dig further? And well, luckily
at this point you know, um,

1004
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:59,680
I'm not the bulldog I was.
I'll tell you, but at this point

1005
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:04,399
in time the case has a certain
momentum. Sometimes the many documentaries us involved

1006
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,399
with get Re Ryan, or I
do a spot on a show like yours,

1007
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:12,239
and somebody just makes a connection that
didn't know of it, didn't know

1008
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:15,760
of my work, and they tracked
me down whatever I mean, for example,

1009
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:20,159
I forget what it was now,
God must be six seven years ago

1010
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:27,680
or whatever when we first heard from
the pilot and flight engineer from pan AM

1011
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,760
one sixty. Oh yes, I
want to talk about that. Yeah,

1012
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:33,079
yeah, no, that was just
great stuff. And you know the ironic

1013
01:16:33,159 --> 01:16:36,199
thing about that. There's a chapter
in the book. By the way,

1014
01:16:36,239 --> 01:16:41,239
if anybody's interested in this is you
know, turning your crank and you think

1015
01:16:41,279 --> 01:16:45,479
you want to know more. Perhaps
the best book I did I co wrote

1016
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:51,199
with Graham Simms, and it's available
on Amazon dot com and it's called Impact

1017
01:16:51,239 --> 01:16:57,600
to contact. And the last chapter
in the book deals with PanAm ONUND sixty,

1018
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:00,000
which was just a new find at
the time, and it explains well

1019
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:04,520
in it because ironically we just put
the other pilot sighting to it that never

1020
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:09,119
should have been connected, and I
always objected to it, and I argued

1021
01:17:09,159 --> 01:17:12,479
with TV producers, I argued with
Dawn Ledger a few times about it.

1022
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,159
It was just too far away and
there were other problems. And that was

1023
01:17:15,239 --> 01:17:19,640
their Canada flight three oh five,
and ironically we'd found and I talked to

1024
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:24,920
the co pilot from that flight and
connected a few other things and tracked down

1025
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:29,279
a rocket launch out of Wallops Island
and it was a cosmic ray experiment.

1026
01:17:29,359 --> 01:17:31,159
They did lots of them back then, and we put it to bed and

1027
01:17:31,359 --> 01:17:34,960
the pilots accepted that. We all
thanked Captain Touch and my god, it

1028
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,840
wasn't Two months later I got a
call from Stan Creeve and he said,

1029
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,720
these guys are trying to find you. They think they saw this the night

1030
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:46,079
before because they got buzzed and it
was a near collision with their PanAm cargo

1031
01:17:46,199 --> 01:17:54,399
jet over the Gulf of Maine hit
he just before they crossed over Shakehrgar and

1032
01:17:54,640 --> 01:18:00,760
eventually we connected up with Ralph Lowinger, who was the co pilot m and

1033
01:18:00,039 --> 01:18:04,479
they flight engineer Michael Little Page.
They're still alive. I've met rel We

1034
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:10,239
were this year. If we had
not had to put off the conference stool

1035
01:18:10,279 --> 01:18:15,399
next year due to the COVID nineteenth
concerns, then they were both going to

1036
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:16,840
come up this year. And I
sure hope they can make it next year

1037
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,399
that they're still well and still willing. They've been up once before and they're

1038
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:23,720
great guys, and boy, they
can tell the story. They can put

1039
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:28,279
you in that cockpit. I'll tell
you, because especially Michael Little Page,

1040
01:18:28,359 --> 01:18:30,399
he was like, it's quite terrified. He was the junior man that night,

1041
01:18:31,039 --> 01:18:33,720
and like you said, they were
just too close. You know,

1042
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:42,039
they were at the fiftieth, weren't
they. Gee, I can't remember they've

1043
01:18:42,039 --> 01:18:44,840
been up and they were up.
I think so, yeah, I think

1044
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,720
I remember hearing the pilot. But
can you can you tell an account of

1045
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:53,680
their story how they viewed it?
Sure, they used to do a weekly

1046
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:57,680
flight that would start at Jfkine.
The way these things worked in the day,

1047
01:18:58,079 --> 01:19:00,439
they would fly and they would come
up the coast before they got on

1048
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:06,600
the right factor to go over to
start crossing the Atlantic. And the thing

1049
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:11,159
is like they would go from every
week I think it was Wednesday night or

1050
01:19:11,199 --> 01:19:15,159
whatever he said, they would leave
and they would go from JFK over to

1051
01:19:15,279 --> 01:19:18,439
Heathrow, and then the next night
they would go Heathrow to Germany and then

1052
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:23,279
Germany onto Japan, and then the
next half the week was the return and

1053
01:19:23,359 --> 01:19:26,399
they have a little time off.
Well anyway, they were on one of

1054
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:30,039
these flights and they're just about in
the middle of the Gulf of Maine,

1055
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,159
coming up to what they used to
call the Davy intersection. And I actually

1056
01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:36,640
have a chart here from that night
where they used to write the notes on

1057
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:42,760
and everything. So they're just about
midpoint and they notice these lights up in

1058
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,680
the distance and the first thing they're
thinking, they look almost like landing lights.

1059
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,399
They're getting kind of bright, but
they're just int at first. But

1060
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:53,119
eventually they gain on them and they
drop down from above and they get right

1061
01:19:53,239 --> 01:19:56,720
in their flight path, in their
nose you could say, in their face,

1062
01:19:57,439 --> 01:20:00,800
and they're starting to get concerned and
a couple times Captain unfortunately he was

1063
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:06,159
deceased. By the time, you
know, I get involved and connected with

1064
01:20:06,319 --> 01:20:12,720
Ralph and Michael little Page. But
when the pilot you know, communicates,

1065
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:16,079
and at this point they're still being
controlled by Boston Center, right, and

1066
01:20:16,239 --> 01:20:19,399
he's asking if they're showing anything,
and the only thing he's showing on his

1067
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:26,920
radar is that there's a flight a
sack refueling plate about twenty thirty miles behind

1068
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,520
them, but nothing up a hit. And he eventually gets them to check

1069
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:33,600
with the military and all this,
and they start to gain on this and

1070
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:38,359
they're getting closer and closer, you
know sort of thing, and they're getting

1071
01:20:38,399 --> 01:20:42,159
off to the Davies Inner up near
that and that would be the handoff point

1072
01:20:42,239 --> 01:20:46,239
where they get passed off from Boston
to Monkedin Center before they start going across

1073
01:20:46,279 --> 01:20:54,439
the pond. And what happens is, you know, they keep communicating the

1074
01:20:55,039 --> 01:20:59,640
flight engineer. He's getting more and
more nervous, and you know, they're

1075
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,920
gaining. He eventually goes up to
the windscreen and cups his hands to get

1076
01:21:03,039 --> 01:21:06,720
rid of what little cabin light there
is so he can see better. And

1077
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:13,239
he realizes that the four lights on
what he's seeing are not external lights but

1078
01:21:13,399 --> 01:21:15,880
our internal lights, and that he's
looking into the thing now. He never

1079
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:20,159
sees any movement or beans or anything
like that. At this point, he

1080
01:21:20,279 --> 01:21:25,199
gets really scared, like he said, I had you know. It just

1081
01:21:25,399 --> 01:21:27,720
got him in the pit of his
stomach. And he gets back and he

1082
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,760
goes Kurt, man, we got
to get out of here, like like,

1083
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:32,159
we're too damn close. If one
little thing breaks off this where,

1084
01:21:33,039 --> 01:21:38,880
you know, we're screwed. So
Kurt tells them all to calm down,

1085
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:42,439
everyone getting their seat, and we're
going to come out of autopilot. And

1086
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:45,960
they're aboute to do that, and
just as they're about to come out of

1087
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:48,960
autopilot, if this thing starts to
shoot ahead, gives them a little distance,

1088
01:21:49,039 --> 01:21:55,920
then angles up and just right up
out of the stratosphere. So they

1089
01:21:56,039 --> 01:22:03,079
call this in and Boston Center hangs
them hands, hands them off to Monk

1090
01:22:03,159 --> 01:22:06,319
and Center. They asked, you
know, just like that scene in the

1091
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:11,520
Close Encounters of the Third Kind,
you know about the Indianapolis citing, like,

1092
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:13,800
you know, do you want to
follow the UFL report? And they

1093
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:18,520
declined and they flew on. But
what caught them was I think they heard

1094
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:21,680
the media reports about shag Herber.
It was a couple of days later they

1095
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:27,159
were in Japan and they said,
my god, that's where we were flying

1096
01:22:27,239 --> 01:22:29,760
over. We saw that thing,
you know, maybe the night before,

1097
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:36,279
but you know, and all those
years later they connected with us. Ralph

1098
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:43,039
came up and you know, he
wrote and gave us a written statement and

1099
01:22:43,319 --> 01:22:46,479
I've since gotten one from Michael Little
Page. And it's not every day you'd

1100
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:49,560
get, you know, a career
pilots to give you a written report and

1101
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:55,159
testify that you know, they had
a near collision with the UFO. Absolutely

1102
01:22:55,840 --> 01:23:01,439
good stuff. Yeah, and back
then, you know, in sixty seven,

1103
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:06,199
that wasn't something that was reported.
I mean, it's still not reported.

1104
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:11,800
No, there's still uh you know, unless they want to write a

1105
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:15,960
desk you know, that's that's right. And they didn't have that interest.

1106
01:23:15,039 --> 01:23:18,199
They wanted to, of course the
junior guys. But you know, uh

1107
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:24,640
Kurt what was his name, Uh
Kurt Olsen was the pilot. Like I

1108
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,520
never got to meet him, he
was already deceased. He put the kai

1109
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:29,920
bosh on and said, no,
we don't want to follow a report.

1110
01:23:30,159 --> 01:23:31,279
You know. Yeah, I guess
it was just like in the movie.

1111
01:23:31,319 --> 01:23:35,640
They asked them twice, you know. Yep. Now let me let me

1112
01:23:36,039 --> 01:23:41,239
let me ask this about did they
just see lights, and then they realized

1113
01:23:41,279 --> 01:23:44,680
the lights were coming from the interior
or did they see a structured craft of

1114
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:49,479
some kind. Again it was starc
out and again no moon, and again

1115
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:57,000
great visibility. They remarked that they
were seeing herring Sainters out in the Bay

1116
01:23:57,039 --> 01:24:00,239
of FUNDI wow, that we're probably
one hundred miles away. So he had

1117
01:24:00,279 --> 01:24:04,840
that kind of visibility, but they
couldn't really see any detail. Again,

1118
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:09,880
the placement of the lights and they're
moving together implied that this was part of

1119
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:15,840
the structured you know, that there
was some form in between right. Interestingly

1120
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,680
enough, one of the few cases
where somebody said they could see the form

1121
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:23,319
was you know, and that it
was around object or that you know,

1122
01:24:23,399 --> 01:24:27,239
had some ball is in the case
of the RCNP officer Ron Pond, and

1123
01:24:27,279 --> 01:24:30,760
when they first interviewed him in the
early nineties, he could make out the

1124
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:35,159
form against the starfield. You know, the sky was so transparent and you

1125
01:24:35,239 --> 01:24:40,119
know, so much the starfield was
so dense that he could kind of see

1126
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:44,439
it against that. But most people, most people you know, seeing it

1127
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:47,199
from indoors or looking through a window
or through the car, weren't getting that

1128
01:24:47,359 --> 01:24:54,920
level of detail. But I mean, I was remember when Michael Littlepage shold

1129
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,800
me, you know, when he
looked cupped his hands to the windscreen,

1130
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,000
it looked in and he realized the
lights were in turn. Wow, he

1131
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:05,039
wanted nothing to do with it,
you know. Yeah, But aren't they

1132
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:10,920
when they have something that is a
danger, aren't they supposed to report it?

1133
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:14,840
Well? Yes, yeah, but
then again that comes with a cost,

1134
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:16,960
doesn't it. Yeah? You know, I mean there is that stigma.

1135
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,039
I mean, technically they are supposed
to record it. And it's like

1136
01:25:20,239 --> 01:25:25,279
in the story, remember I told
you that Bick Eldrich had put in all

1137
01:25:25,319 --> 01:25:30,359
the papers in Nova Scotia Military once
UFOs reported and when you read it tells

1138
01:25:30,399 --> 01:25:33,520
you who to get hold of and
how and encourages pilots to report and all

1139
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,119
that. But they know what kind
of poison that compete to a career,

1140
01:25:36,359 --> 01:25:41,640
you know? Yeah? Yeah,
I think I'm going to open the lines

1141
01:25:42,079 --> 01:25:45,439
and if someone wants to call in. Of course, there's there's still a

1142
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:47,520
lot more to cover on this,
but I just I thought i'd give the

1143
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:54,079
opportunity for callers that numbers eight five
five four seven two five four eighty three,

1144
01:25:54,479 --> 01:26:00,359
and Bill is standing by to take
care to screen your call. Now

1145
01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:04,279
as far as um their myths,
are there any other myths that you can

1146
01:26:04,319 --> 01:26:08,960
think of that you'd if you had
a chance to clear up, that you

1147
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:14,960
would actually clear up? What about
Shag Herb Yeah, Shag Harper, Yes,

1148
01:26:15,039 --> 01:26:20,199
I'm sorry, Yeah, well I'm
sure there are Well, yeah,

1149
01:26:20,359 --> 01:26:24,560
they're I mean one of the things
that every now and then is kind of

1150
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:29,159
an irritant that resurfaces over the years. Somebody thinks that, you know,

1151
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:35,199
oh, somebody just shot off a
flair And I've had people call up and

1152
01:26:35,279 --> 01:26:40,119
try to confess to that either.
Really I think it was them, And

1153
01:26:40,319 --> 01:26:43,920
I don't want to give you my
name. I'm telling you you're in a

1154
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,760
community of fisherman. Yeah, and
you do with our CNP officers in the

1155
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:50,279
fishing village. I think they know
the difference between a flare. Yeah.

1156
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:55,720
Yeah. The other thing is,
like you look at pan M one sixty.

1157
01:26:55,760 --> 01:27:00,239
I don't think flaires get up to
thirty three thousand feet, you know,

1158
01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:03,119
but you'll always have you'll always have
a skeptic or I mean, what

1159
01:27:03,239 --> 01:27:10,920
did Phil Phil Class? Now,
I'm glad you asked that. I met

1160
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:15,279
Phil Class a couple times and the
first time I met him, I'll tell

1161
01:27:15,319 --> 01:27:18,319
you this quite well, I was, this is quite interesting. Well,

1162
01:27:18,359 --> 01:27:21,159
it's entertaining. I don't know how
interesting it is if you do. You

1163
01:27:21,279 --> 01:27:26,359
know you had memories of Phil class
of course, right, yeah, yeah,

1164
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:30,680
okay. I met him in Greensboro, North Carolina in nineteen ninety six.

1165
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:34,079
It was July fourth weekend, right. I was presenting at a move

1166
01:27:34,199 --> 01:27:39,680
on conference, right, and it
was Saturday morning, I can remember.

1167
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:43,439
And the first speaker ahead of me
was Kevin Randall. Right, yeah,

1168
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:45,399
And I didn't know. This was
the first time I was in the US

1169
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:48,279
to speak to present on Shank Herber
and I was kind of wondering, like

1170
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:51,039
I hadn't done a lot of television, and I'm wondering, like, are

1171
01:27:51,119 --> 01:27:57,680
they going to be interested on this
Canadian story? How do they receive it?

1172
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,039
As at a tough audience? I
didn't know. People said, I

1173
01:28:00,239 --> 01:28:02,199
relaxed, it's a love in you
know, it's a U. But I

1174
01:28:02,279 --> 01:28:09,239
didn't know. And Kevin Randall went
out and did a talk and in the

1175
01:28:09,399 --> 01:28:13,840
talk he said a couple of things, and I know Kevin didn't mean this,

1176
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:24,039
but they were seen as a bit
of a disc to oh, of

1177
01:28:24,119 --> 01:28:28,399
course Smouth in New Hampshire, the
first of yea, Betty and party Hill,

1178
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:32,279
Betty Hill. Yeah, brain slipping
here, Betty Hill. And he

1179
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:38,119
was booed. You could hear the
booze. And at the end of his

1180
01:28:38,239 --> 01:28:42,720
performance, perhaps forty percent of the
people clapped in the other sixty percent booed.

1181
01:28:43,159 --> 01:28:45,720
And I sat there my first time
before us there was they were still

1182
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:49,319
getting large crowns at the move On
convention then, you know, and I

1183
01:28:49,359 --> 01:28:54,039
remember thinking world tough audience, like
anyway, you do what you do.

1184
01:28:54,159 --> 01:28:57,359
At showtime, I was the next
speaker, and I went out to present

1185
01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:01,520
and I looked down front and here's
Phil Class sitting right in the front row

1186
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:06,680
with his little handheld to set recorder, leaning beforeward, walking up at me.

1187
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:09,920
And I looked at him. And
I can remember as a boy,

1188
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,600
because when I was a boy,
you know, after Shake Harbor, I

1189
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:15,479
became interested in the phenomen I read
what literature there was then, things like

1190
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:20,079
the UFO experience behind it. You
know. I remember looking at pictures of

1191
01:29:20,119 --> 01:29:27,800
Phil Class when he was narrow black
tie and to me, the pooloo things

1192
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:30,199
he said, I said, I
vilified him as the devil, you know.

1193
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:33,520
Anyway, there he was in front
of me, ready to listen to

1194
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:38,800
me. So I did the presentation
on shake Harber, and I should say

1195
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:42,039
that when Kevin was speaking, he
fell asleep and dropped the state recorder.

1196
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:49,079
You know, I love that.
You know all the it's a fact,

1197
01:29:49,159 --> 01:29:51,680
this is what happened. So I
went up, I did my thing.

1198
01:29:51,960 --> 01:29:55,720
He stayed awake for me. He
listened. He seemed to be very intent,

1199
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:59,760
right, And when my presentation was
done, I got a great round

1200
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:01,000
of a clause from everybody. A
lot of people set up. It was

1201
01:30:01,039 --> 01:30:04,720
great. And when I was done, I had to coax them to get

1202
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:08,640
any questions. People didn't seem to
know what to make of it at first,

1203
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:13,359
back then, you know, and
when I finally got some I can

1204
01:30:13,479 --> 01:30:15,439
always remember. The first question actually
was, well, you know, you

1205
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:19,680
seem to be that much behind the
scene and dealing and being an irritant or

1206
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:25,159
you must be to the government there
like have you ever had been confronted or

1207
01:30:25,239 --> 01:30:28,439
had to deal with men in black? And I started laughing. I didn't.

1208
01:30:28,439 --> 01:30:30,359
I said, I don't know what
to say. I'm not home anymore.

1209
01:30:30,359 --> 01:30:32,560
I can tell that. I said, no, no, men in

1210
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:35,159
black. I said, well,
there was once a rude guy from the

1211
01:30:35,239 --> 01:30:40,159
coast guarding the chief round. Polyaster
really got the right side of me,

1212
01:30:40,359 --> 01:30:44,359
you know, but no no men
in black. And anyway, when it

1213
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:47,000
was all done and I came off
the stage, the first person to run

1214
01:30:47,119 --> 01:30:50,159
up to me and hand me a
character was Kevin Randall. Yeah, I'm

1215
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:54,399
doing a book called the Randall Report
UFOs in the nineties. You're the first

1216
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:58,000
chapter. And that did come out
the next year. I had to go

1217
01:30:58,039 --> 01:31:01,359
to his hotel room and did an
interview, and that was true. The

1218
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:05,239
next person to come up to me
was Phil Class and he was nodding and

1219
01:31:05,319 --> 01:31:09,640
he said, well, well,
well I guess I can retire now you

1220
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:13,600
Canadian guys have explained it all.
He said, uh no, He says,

1221
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:15,880
I remember that case. And you
know what. He goes, something

1222
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:17,720
did happen there? Now, he
says, I'm gonna go home. I'll

1223
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,399
probably put something on my website.
He goes, don't let me that bothery,

1224
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:24,119
don't let that bother Chris. He
said, you did a great job,

1225
01:31:24,159 --> 01:31:27,880
a very interesting case. Congratulations,
and he wanted to get his picture

1226
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:31,680
taken with me, and that was
it, and he just you know,

1227
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:35,359
and I encountered him one other time
a few years later, doing a talk

1228
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:40,000
in Trenton, New Jersey, and
same thing. Then he said, never

1229
01:31:40,079 --> 01:31:43,039
did get the anything putting on that
site. That wouldn't worry about because because

1230
01:31:43,079 --> 01:31:46,880
something did happen there and that was
from Pail class. That's really that's really

1231
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:53,159
odd. That's so unli the behavior
that Yeah, I know we know him,

1232
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:56,840
be honest, heart, he disappointed
me. I was ready. I

1233
01:31:57,039 --> 01:32:00,399
was ready for Phil class and kind
of this earned me, right. I

1234
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:04,039
SA the picture he took and he
sent me a copy taking with an old

1235
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:10,279
one ten snapshot camera. You know. Oh yes, the arm around hugging

1236
01:32:10,319 --> 01:32:13,079
me and thumbs up, you know
there he wanted his picture taking. You

1237
01:32:13,159 --> 01:32:15,600
know. Wow, I think he
was walking around with Mosley back then,

1238
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,560
if I remember, I'm not so
sure. I got to know him a

1239
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:23,880
bit later before his passing, you
know, but yeah, that was my

1240
01:32:24,039 --> 01:32:27,920
encounter with Phil class. Right,
how about that? How about other debunkers,

1241
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:30,680
So people trying to trying to put
you know, their spin on it.

1242
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:35,680
Um. Yeah, Usually what happens
is, you know, they come

1243
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:40,079
up with something just because they haven't
looked at the whole aggregate of the data,

1244
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:44,319
you know, where they're trying to
put it into their favorite explanation or

1245
01:32:44,359 --> 01:32:47,680
whatever. Um, I mean the
truth is, you know, it's like

1246
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,319
the little siting we had last year. I mean, I don't know what

1247
01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:58,239
it was, but um, you
know, all these years later, I

1248
01:32:58,359 --> 01:33:01,079
mean if somebody, you know,
when people say, look it was a

1249
01:33:01,159 --> 01:33:05,720
super secret military device for example,
which is a story that's been suggested a

1250
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:10,520
few times. Whatever that was,
it would have been short great to have

1251
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,880
something that was both aerodynamic and hydrodynamic
in the Vietnam War, wouldn't it.

1252
01:33:15,319 --> 01:33:17,720
Oh yeah, And there's been nothing
released since, you know. And and

1253
01:33:18,279 --> 01:33:24,399
no, it's not the Agro aero
car. I think could barely get across

1254
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:28,960
the runway at two feet off the
ground, you know. But you know,

1255
01:33:29,319 --> 01:33:31,960
people come up with explanations. You
know, I've heard everything from will

1256
01:33:32,039 --> 01:33:39,800
of the Wisp to whatever. You
know. But you know, you can

1257
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:43,359
only kind of explain this when you
start leaving things out, and of course

1258
01:33:43,399 --> 01:33:45,039
inevitably that that's what some of them
do, you know what I mean,

1259
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:48,840
they breeze over and try to go
on into it, you know, But

1260
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:53,720
I'm still waiting for the explanation,
you know, all these years later,

1261
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,640
you know, but I mean,
when you start putting together what was seen

1262
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,800
at thirty three three thousand feet,
what was being seen on the ground,

1263
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:03,520
you know, dozens of witnesses,
including three RCMP officers. When you start

1264
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:08,880
looking at it all and the effect
it had an Ottawa and how this effected

1265
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:15,399
UFO policy per decade in what way? Well, like I say, you

1266
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:19,800
know, the it happened in sixty
seven, and this was one of the

1267
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:27,760
cases along with others that were mentioned
such as you know Stefan Maholick's case and

1268
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:34,800
in cam Rose, Alberta and others
that suggested that the government that should be

1269
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:40,079
giving to the National Research Council,
which they did, which at first wasn't

1270
01:34:40,119 --> 01:34:45,000
a bad decision, but it evolved
into one as you know, nobody wanted

1271
01:34:45,039 --> 01:34:47,359
to deal with it. You know, the stigma was too much. Key

1272
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:51,319
people as they retired were never replaced, and eventually, by nineteen ninety nine

1273
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:57,079
it had become almost like the American
Bluebook thing before that was canceled in sixty

1274
01:34:57,159 --> 01:35:00,319
nine. It was just a filing
cabinet for reports in the end. You

1275
01:35:00,399 --> 01:35:05,640
know, yeah, are there any
other cases that have a similarity to this

1276
01:35:06,159 --> 01:35:14,279
one in any type of way that
you can think of? I'm sure there

1277
01:35:14,319 --> 01:35:16,760
are, but none dramatically. So
I mean when you look at you know,

1278
01:35:18,119 --> 01:35:21,399
crash scenarios in other places, they're
they're quite different, you know.

1279
01:35:23,319 --> 01:35:26,920
Um. You know it's funny people
like to call this Candada's row as well.

1280
01:35:27,119 --> 01:35:30,359
But you know when when you when
you look at Roswell, I mean,

1281
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:33,680
my first thing is where's the UFO. I mean, where's the UFO

1282
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:40,159
sighting? There is not you know, where's there isn't? Right, you

1283
01:35:40,239 --> 01:35:44,279
know, Mac Brizzel come out the
rancher and found this this material in the

1284
01:35:44,359 --> 01:35:47,159
field after a lightning storm. You
know what I mean. It's interesting the

1285
01:35:47,279 --> 01:35:51,159
claims of others. I'm not saying
there's nothing to the case. I mean

1286
01:35:51,239 --> 01:35:55,359
the very fact that the military put
out that press release, you know,

1287
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:58,319
bigs questions. I'm not saying it's
nothing. You're trying to shoot it down.

1288
01:35:59,119 --> 01:36:01,239
Although when people have tried to compare
it too strongly, like when I've

1289
01:36:01,239 --> 01:36:04,159
had a Fox News reporter at me. I can remember being in New York

1290
01:36:04,239 --> 01:36:08,319
one day and eventually I said,
and I said, you're trying to get

1291
01:36:08,359 --> 01:36:12,840
me to say that my UFO crash
is better than your weather balloon, but

1292
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:15,239
I'm not going to do that.
You look disappointed. And walked away.

1293
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:20,560
I'm not saying that there's nothing to
roswell, but you know, like the

1294
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:24,840
Kennedy assassination, how do you get
to the truth of that now all these

1295
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:28,199
years later, you know, and
everybody's pretty much gone to the undertaker,

1296
01:36:28,359 --> 01:36:31,880
you know, But I'm not sure
what there was there in the first case.

1297
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:35,199
It's a very different case, and
all these cases are very different,

1298
01:36:35,239 --> 01:36:40,640
these crash scenarios, you know.
Yeah, I think it's kind of unique.

1299
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:43,159
You know, there's a thing,
like I said, you know,

1300
01:36:43,239 --> 01:36:45,560
your witnesses didn't report a UFO.
It was the authorities they called it.

1301
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:50,800
I think how different that is exactly. And as far as the witnesses go,

1302
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:56,840
do you have an idea how many
there were total? Well, in

1303
01:36:57,039 --> 01:37:01,439
terms are you talking about just Shag
Harbor? Yes, yeah, Because I

1304
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:05,359
say there were a myriad of sightings
at night in the Shag Harbor area,

1305
01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:10,119
I would estimate it's got to be
well, it would have to be over

1306
01:37:10,199 --> 01:37:12,960
one hundred. And I'll tell you
why. Typically in the days before the

1307
01:37:13,119 --> 01:37:15,199
Internet, it was pretty much attend
to one ratio. When a lot of

1308
01:37:15,319 --> 01:37:20,439
the classic researchers would come up and
agree with that figure. I mean,

1309
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:24,159
you had to be pretty certain before
you picked up the phone and reported this

1310
01:37:24,319 --> 01:37:27,920
the police, the military or RCC
something like that in those days, the

1311
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:31,359
Rescue Coordinations Center. So it was
a great filter to help cut out a

1312
01:37:31,399 --> 01:37:36,239
lot of foolishness, you know,
and low grade sightings. So the fact

1313
01:37:36,319 --> 01:37:41,720
that that night they received seven calls
right away would imply their head to be

1314
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:45,159
at least seventy. But when you
look at things like the people that were

1315
01:37:45,199 --> 01:37:48,399
outside, fishermen out working, you
know, at sea and all this,

1316
01:37:51,199 --> 01:37:56,079
you know, it would be if
it wasn't a hundred, it would be

1317
01:37:56,159 --> 01:37:58,840
in the range of that, you
know. I mean there was a crowd

1318
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:01,039
by the moss plant at night,
you know, while it was still moving

1319
01:38:01,079 --> 01:38:05,600
on the surface of the water.
Wow. Yeah, amazing. And when

1320
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:10,600
you said there was a myriad of
sightings that night, can you explain explain

1321
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:13,560
that? Yeah? Well, I
mean the same night, for example,

1322
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:16,960
I saw what many people saw here
in Dart with Nova Scotia, you know,

1323
01:38:17,039 --> 01:38:21,640
in Halifax Harbor, people on the
ferry, people driving across the McDonald

1324
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:27,800
bridge and saw an orb of light
hovering low over the water that was tracing

1325
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:31,600
the shoreline of Dart with coves,
and you know, many people reported this

1326
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:38,000
in the newspaper. There were sightings
by hearing sayers, the same ones that

1327
01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:42,319
the pilots would have seen from one
sixty in the Bay of Funding. They

1328
01:38:42,359 --> 01:38:48,119
said it looked like it was two
full moons dancing over them. There's sightings

1329
01:38:48,199 --> 01:38:53,920
from Mahome Bay, Lunenburg all over
the province. You know that night,

1330
01:38:54,119 --> 01:38:59,319
and you know that's just the way
it was. Many people actually referred to

1331
01:38:59,399 --> 01:39:01,079
it as a night the UFOs.
There were just so many sightings. And

1332
01:39:01,199 --> 01:39:06,960
in fact, remember I told you
about the RCMPX file that actually stems from

1333
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:13,000
a sighting of the same nine sixteen
miles off shore by a ship called the

1334
01:39:13,159 --> 01:39:19,760
MV Nickerson, which was a large
factory freezer dragger ship and it had eighteen

1335
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:26,199
men on board, and they reported
UFO sightings and four UFOs on the water

1336
01:39:26,319 --> 01:39:32,359
with radar returns. This is two
I shake harbor and the Lunenburg ARCMP detachment

1337
01:39:32,399 --> 01:39:35,600
told him to come in and file
a report when they get ashore when they

1338
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:39,319
were in from the fishing ground,
and they did that on that Saturday,

1339
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:43,119
and that was the source. Because
the captain had gone near the operation was

1340
01:39:43,199 --> 01:39:48,199
warned off by the navy. The
captain of the ship had been told that

1341
01:39:48,319 --> 01:39:51,439
the second UFO search and told to
stay away from it when he sailed near

1342
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:57,079
it. Eh, and that's why
it's mentioned in the RCMP report, which

1343
01:39:57,159 --> 01:40:01,119
is kind of an independent thing that
shows wh well maybe not everything else got

1344
01:40:01,199 --> 01:40:04,760
in the public file in terms of
the showburn story. So you know,

1345
01:40:05,239 --> 01:40:11,640
yeah, and you know, as
Justin's film showed, there are things that

1346
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:17,680
have happened since. So let's talk
about post Shag Harbor and are there sightings

1347
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:24,680
a lot of sightings still, Yes, there are many low grade pictures that

1348
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:29,199
come in from the southwestern area of
Nova Scotia. The show sightings like what

1349
01:40:29,359 --> 01:40:33,920
we've seen this shape craft at rows
of like just the typical thing people that

1350
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:39,199
aren't prepared, they snap on with
their phone or whatever. Ironically, you

1351
01:40:39,239 --> 01:40:44,359
know the spot where we stood on
on the beach there on Cape Sable Island

1352
01:40:45,239 --> 01:40:50,319
a month before I was down filming
a documentary that didn't work out so well

1353
01:40:50,399 --> 01:40:55,880
with the Cousteas. Oh yeah,
we talked about that. Yeah, yeah,

1354
01:40:56,359 --> 01:41:04,399
okay, if my moss but yeah, anyway, somebody on that island.

1355
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:08,000
There was a day that I wasn't
on the film ship shoot. I

1356
01:41:08,079 --> 01:41:13,439
wasn't required and I was about to
drive into Yarmces to pick up some some

1357
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,800
things I'd forgotten to pack with me
on the trip down there for the shoot

1358
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:20,840
that week, and somebody called from
the island and wanted to report a sighting

1359
01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:25,920
and claimed that they had had a
close encounter on the beach, and they

1360
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:28,199
took me to the spot. It
was a rainy day that day, and

1361
01:41:28,279 --> 01:41:30,319
we went out there and they took
me right to the spot where we you

1362
01:41:30,399 --> 01:41:34,840
know, a month before, where
I eventually would have that daytime sighting with

1363
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:39,199
the video buttage, you know.
And when she described what came up to

1364
01:41:39,319 --> 01:41:43,079
run the beach, she was alone
that day back a couple months before in

1365
01:41:43,199 --> 01:41:46,239
June. It was the very same
spot, you know, and described the

1366
01:41:46,399 --> 01:41:49,319
very same thing. And I didn't
tell anybody because she didn't want her name

1367
01:41:49,439 --> 01:41:54,159
used and just falled away and bat. She wanted device on somebody that might

1368
01:41:54,239 --> 01:41:58,239
not judge or schizophrenic, you know, that she could seek for counseling,

1369
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,079
and I did that. I had
never mentioned anybody, because when somebody asked

1370
01:42:01,119 --> 01:42:04,720
for that kind of anonymity, I
honor it, you know. But that

1371
01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:08,319
had come up, and you know, the day on the beach, even

1372
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:12,680
when I'm arriving and I find a
link up with Lori and Heather and Justin

1373
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:15,640
on the beach. None of them
were new of that. I told nobody.

1374
01:42:15,039 --> 01:42:17,720
And when I'm standing in the site
when this thing was coming closer and

1375
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:20,920
I get that that shot that's got
no zoom where you know, it has

1376
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:24,880
some size to it on the still
I don't know if you found that in

1377
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:29,960
the balls I sent yeah because everything, yeah, that just snapped was my

1378
01:42:30,079 --> 01:42:32,800
phone, right and you can see
the like I say, the pattern inside

1379
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:35,800
it. But when I looked at
that just you know, under eight X.

1380
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:40,000
When I looked at it and you
can see inside, oh my god,

1381
01:42:40,079 --> 01:42:44,720
there was some strange details going.
And just picture when that disappeared and

1382
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:46,560
when it first reappeared, and it
started as a black dot and then grew

1383
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:50,640
and then reversed image like you know, weather blip can't do that. And

1384
01:42:51,039 --> 01:42:54,359
the people that were staying around there
was a little crowd with us, they

1385
01:42:54,399 --> 01:42:56,760
were watching it. When it did
that, they went, oh, and

1386
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:00,399
I remember we're looking and they all
said, did you see that? Yeah,

1387
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:03,560
And that little sequence only glassed like
a second and a half. That

1388
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:09,720
was on the final reappearance of it. Ye duration the last bit. Like

1389
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:11,960
I said, I was only there
for the last seven minutes of this,

1390
01:43:12,119 --> 01:43:15,880
but it was obviously when I look
at the video foot each although that's intriguing,

1391
01:43:15,159 --> 01:43:17,239
this was the better part of the
sighting. But at this point,

1392
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:20,359
we'll put this way. You can
picture this. It's kind of comic.

1393
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:23,920
But we're standing right at the water's
edge of looking up and we don't notice

1394
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:26,720
as one little rope wave coming.
We all got wet feet. You know,

1395
01:43:27,279 --> 01:43:30,119
it was comic. It was just
such a thing. And when this

1396
01:43:30,239 --> 01:43:33,000
whole thing was over and we're just
standing there comparing notes and I'm taking I

1397
01:43:33,079 --> 01:43:36,800
went right home and wrote this up
so that I had some hard detail,

1398
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:41,600
like I kept checking the time and
the wind direction, and the next day,

1399
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,680
you know, gathered what I could
and send it on to move on

1400
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:49,319
everybody. The reactions were different,
you know, I couldn't. You know,

1401
01:43:49,359 --> 01:43:55,159
you heard justin he was very excited, frying it frustrated. But somehow,

1402
01:43:55,279 --> 01:43:59,439
please Heather do set you know who
takes lots of pictures and claims to

1403
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:04,399
see things like this in this area. She was through all this laughing hysterically

1404
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:09,039
and correctly. And I said why, And be honest, I was actually

1405
01:44:09,039 --> 01:44:11,920
concerned. At one point. It
was like you know when somebody gets so

1406
01:44:12,039 --> 01:44:15,359
euphoric, you know, they I
thought you might pass out, you know,

1407
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:17,800
And I said, hey, what's
what's up? Funny? But is

1408
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:20,439
it? And she said, I
see these things all the time, she

1409
01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:24,560
says, but I never see them
in the daytime with a group of people

1410
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:29,600
around. She goes, I needed
this, you know. And Lorie,

1411
01:44:30,279 --> 01:44:33,479
who by the way, up until
about five or six, until shortainly before

1412
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:38,239
you met him, actually you know
when people ask him that he think he's

1413
01:44:38,239 --> 01:44:41,479
seen the UFO, he always held
the opinion that sixty seven it might have

1414
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:45,159
been a US military thing. And
over the years, after having met the

1415
01:44:45,239 --> 01:44:47,479
pilots and all the other people and
what they saw, it was only back

1416
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:50,359
in that period of time that he
started thinking, now it couldn't have been

1417
01:44:50,439 --> 01:44:56,359
that. It had to be an
unknown, you know. But that day

1418
01:44:56,479 --> 01:44:59,520
when he saw this with me,
he looked at this and he kept saying,

1419
01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:03,239
that's UFO. That ain't no weather
ballooon, that ain't no But like

1420
01:45:03,359 --> 01:45:05,840
I say, I'll be honest.
Many people looked up on the beach.

1421
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:09,319
Some people were frank saying, what
is that? You know, and they

1422
01:45:09,720 --> 01:45:11,840
were getting oed here and going into
the car, and other people looked up

1423
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:15,520
and struggled to go that what's that? It's nothing, and they turn away.

1424
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:17,560
But if you kept watching, you've
seen things like the disappearances and the

1425
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:21,359
reappearances, and the change of direction
and flight path, and you know these

1426
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:26,039
unusual internal features when it got close. Right, Like I said, I

1427
01:45:26,079 --> 01:45:29,640
saw only the last seven minutes,
but it was probably the best seven minutes

1428
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:33,159
of the sighting. Yeah, yeah, that's really something. What do you

1429
01:45:33,279 --> 01:45:40,000
think is the future of this story? Are you just going to keep plugging

1430
01:45:40,039 --> 01:45:44,000
along like you are and see if
you can actually find an answer? Do

1431
01:45:44,079 --> 01:45:46,920
you think there is an answer to
be found? I do. I think

1432
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:51,600
there are answers to be found.
I mean picture my overall philosophy here where

1433
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:56,920
I think the unknowns had multiple causes, right, And I hold the blended

1434
01:45:57,000 --> 01:46:02,239
view of the phenomena in the sense
that yeah, eth is still on the

1435
01:46:02,319 --> 01:46:09,000
table the extraterrestrial hypothesis. But I
believe in kind of the valley outlook too

1436
01:46:09,079 --> 01:46:14,119
about reality transformation and other factors.
And I think some of the minority opinions

1437
01:46:14,159 --> 01:46:16,720
that we've abandoned in this field,
Like I said, the idea of there

1438
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:20,960
being you know, some kind of
living organism that's here that may not be

1439
01:46:21,079 --> 01:46:29,279
extraterrestrial but appears under certain conditions as
a possibility too. Look in the short

1440
01:46:29,359 --> 01:46:30,840
term, and this is going to
this part, and I'm going to answer

1441
01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:34,520
your question a bit more detailed here
quickly. The first part is in the

1442
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:39,600
short term, this compress we're going
to have a twenty twenty one is going

1443
01:46:39,640 --> 01:46:41,880
to be just a little bit more
than that. Yes, you're going to

1444
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:44,840
have the people stand up at the
podium and talk about this, right.

1445
01:46:45,199 --> 01:46:46,279
Well, one of the things we're
going to do this a little different.

1446
01:46:46,359 --> 01:46:53,560
Anybody wants to find out that degory
details shag Harbor ufoxbo dot com online.

1447
01:46:54,239 --> 01:46:58,800
Here's here's the difference. We're going
to take you there. You're going to

1448
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:01,520
meet the actual eye witness, people
like Lorie and others. The guy with

1449
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:06,359
the dip net I told you about, he'll be there. The experts supposed

1450
01:47:06,439 --> 01:47:11,319
be people like me and these other
well known American speakers that I talked about

1451
01:47:11,399 --> 01:47:14,800
my respect, you know, Nick
Pope, Robs White, well maybe not

1452
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:18,520
American Debbie Ziegeldmeyer, Ryans whatever.
They're all going to be there. But

1453
01:47:19,039 --> 01:47:23,640
on the Sunday We're gonna put everybody
on a bus that a tans advising and

1454
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:26,520
it gets a ticket, and we're
going to the actual sites. I'm going

1455
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:29,279
to tell that on right there.
So you're going to meet the people,

1456
01:47:29,359 --> 01:47:31,760
you're gonna meet the experts, the
actual witness. We're gonna literally take you

1457
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:36,359
there where it all happened to all
these different locations, Cape Sable, Shag

1458
01:47:36,439 --> 01:47:42,000
Harbor and the Bass. Wow,
that's awesome. I know what I wanted

1459
01:47:42,039 --> 01:47:45,039
to say, Yes, and you're
not gonna like it, and that is

1460
01:47:45,479 --> 01:47:50,479
the Cousteau family. So how did
that? How did that end up not

1461
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:55,319
being so well? The Custos were
great people. Let me start by that

1462
01:47:55,439 --> 01:47:58,680
before I okay, just to let
you know, we got about three and

1463
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:01,800
a half minutes. Okay. The
problem is, you know a lot of

1464
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:06,479
these shows have a limited budget and
they don't take local advice, so they

1465
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:10,920
hire a diving tender. Isn't a
great boat, you know? For example,

1466
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:14,800
we had an anchor that was a
bucket with three hundred pounds of cement

1467
01:48:14,920 --> 01:48:16,880
in it and it wouldn't hold station
in a light wind for the boat.

1468
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,640
And the places I really wanted to
go are the places we couldn't get near

1469
01:48:21,079 --> 01:48:26,079
because it wasn't safe according to the
dive master. So very disappointing. You

1470
01:48:26,159 --> 01:48:29,760
know those kinds of things, and
that often happens on these things that this

1471
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:32,359
one was a little disappointing to boat. The Cousteaus were great, Some of

1472
01:48:32,399 --> 01:48:35,920
the people affiliated with the show were
great and very helpful, and some of

1473
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:39,159
them were you know, it reminds
me of that clip they used to have

1474
01:48:39,239 --> 01:48:42,960
a much music when they show David
Byrne from Talking Head where he stares into

1475
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:46,600
the camera and says, you're watching
television. When it was all done,

1476
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:48,199
I looked at them, I said, you know what we did. We

1477
01:48:48,319 --> 01:48:55,640
were making television. Yeah, we
weren't doing any science right the future to

1478
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:59,239
me, I'm hoping in a year
or two that if I can work a

1479
01:48:59,279 --> 01:49:01,319
little less, I'd like to raise
some money and go down and do an

1480
01:49:01,399 --> 01:49:05,560
extended sky search in that whole area
with all the best equipment and help and

1481
01:49:05,680 --> 01:49:11,720
volunteer groups that I can muster from
Cape Sable to Shag Harbor and just hope

1482
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:14,560
we get a little lucky. It
might be like storm chasing, but with

1483
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:16,960
a little bit of lucky can come
up with some good stuff. Are we

1484
01:49:17,039 --> 01:49:20,199
going to get the answer to like
the universe and everything, No, Martin,

1485
01:49:20,279 --> 01:49:24,039
But what I hope to get is
enough solid events to say there is

1486
01:49:24,079 --> 01:49:28,840
a phenomena, there are unknowns,
and we're going for it. Yeah,

1487
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:32,079
excellent, all right, And can
you give out your website one more time?

1488
01:49:33,239 --> 01:49:38,960
Oh, the website for the for
the s Yeah, shag Harbor ufo

1489
01:49:39,319 --> 01:49:43,720
xpo dot com. Spelt as it
sounds a Canadian spelling for shag harbor all

1490
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:48,960
one word lowercase. But oh you
are harbor up. That's right, shag

1491
01:49:49,079 --> 01:49:55,119
Harbor ufo xpo dot com. We'll
give you all the great details and how

1492
01:49:55,159 --> 01:49:59,880
to buy in and be there for
this. Hopefully this COVID nineteens under control,

1493
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:01,760
then I would have loved it on
this this year. Hopefully we can

1494
01:50:01,800 --> 01:50:04,520
get everybody there, including the pilot, so there could be a lot of

1495
01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:09,880
great people beyond just the guest list
of speakers. Listen to it. It's

1496
01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:12,000
always fun. I love it down
the shore when I go there, it's

1497
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:15,680
always in event. Excellent. Well, I look forward to uh to seeing

1498
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:17,920
you again, definitely. But I'll
tell you one thing I'm not going to

1499
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:21,920
do, and that's I'm never ever
ever going to drive there again. I

1500
01:50:23,079 --> 01:50:27,840
drove. I drove there from Maine
up through I believe that it took sixteen

1501
01:50:28,039 --> 01:50:31,880
hours to get there. I go
to the Toronto a couple of years ago.

1502
01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:33,920
I know, I used I used
to laugh at that stuff. It

1503
01:50:34,039 --> 01:50:38,479
was hired on me this time.
Yeah, all right, your youth isn't

1504
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:41,760
protecting us anymore. That's right,
all right, Chris, you take care

1505
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:44,720
of Thanks again. I hope we
meet again sometime. Yes, all right,

1506
01:50:44,760 --> 01:50:47,199
it's wonderful. Thanks a lot,
all right, Okay, everyone,

1507
01:50:47,720 --> 01:50:53,680
thanks so much for listening, and
we'll be back next week with Matthew Christal.

1508
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:58,279
He has a book on dark skies
and we might get a bright sable

1509
01:50:58,319 --> 01:51:00,720
and as well, so check us
out next week. It should be a

1510
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:04,000
good one. And I think that's
going to do it for us. I

1511
01:51:04,079 --> 01:51:09,239
want to thank everyone again for listening, and I want to thank all the

1512
01:51:09,319 --> 01:51:14,960
supporters, and we'll see you next
week. Stay safe and remember to keep

1513
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:15,920
your eyes to the sky.