Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Wilsh, your host,
and yet another exciting show for you this evening. My featured guest is Chris
Styles, and we're going to be talking about a case that he has deeply
been involved in for many years, the Shag Harbor incident. Some of you
may not be aware of what that was, but it's a very well documented
case and we'll be talking all about that. And there's actually a couple of
well at least one new development in that case which is very interesting. Also,
we're going to be talking about a UFO and Cape Sable Island. That'll
be talking to both Chris and another guest. I met Chris in Shag Harbor
a few years ago, along with two other people that will be on the
show tonight. First Jordan Bonaparte, he joins us again. He's been on
the show many times from Nova Scotia. I met him up there in Shag
Harbor, and after the first break Justin Brown, who also I met up
there in sharg Harbor. He's going to join us and talk about a film
that he has coming out about the area up there in the UFO incidents and
abductions and strange things going on up there, and let's see, I want
to thank everyone that supports the show. Anyone can do that. We are
on Patreon and the link is on podcast ufo dot com. While you're there,
check out our latest blog by Charles Lear Fear and Loathing and UFOs and
Dulcie. Pretty interesting title and it kind of sums up what the story is
about, what his blog is about. It's a really good read. Check
that out when you're over there. And I always do, not always do,
but I often do a kind of a shameless plug of my artwork.
And I live right on the coast. So I just decided to start painting
seagulls, I don't know, two weeks ago, so check it out,
and you know, I win on my art website. And what I did
is I by the way, I have seagulls all over the place. One
just basically lives on the chimney where I live. And I really do love
seagulls, That's why I'm painting them. But anyway, I lowered the prices
on my artwork to half of what they used to be in a gallery.
So this I just did this yesterday. So also, if you if there's
something there you like. If you go to check out and you add the
code UFO, you'll get fifty percent off, So it's like a quarter of
my usual gallery prices. Anyway, I just thought I would throw that again,
another shameless plug out there. And at the beginning of the show.
Here I am bringing in my good friend from Nova Scotia. How you doing,
Jordan, I'm doing the show. Hey, thanks Marton. Great to
be here. Yeah, especially on especially on this event with Chrys Styles joining
it. This is what I wouldn't so I had to write you and try
to get in on this. I know you did. You forced your way
into this one right one way or another. I was coming yeah another.
You know. I think this is probably kind of like Canada's Roswell, would
you say, shag Harbor this event, Yeah, well more than kind of
what we call it. People call it and it is Roswell, and I
think it's in a lot of ways you'll you'll hear Chris explain, but in
a lot of ways, I think it's even more sensational than the actual Roswell
event. Shag Harbor is a fantastic story, tons of proof, tons of
evidence, a whole bunch of really interesting people involved in it. And I
think one of the things that Shag Harbor has going for it that a lot
of other sightings don't is it has kind of like, you know, this
one guy who is just driving the investigation and has been for years, and
he's coming up on your show soon. Chris Styles is just a force to
be reckoned with. Yeah, yeah, I know. I remember, you
know, way back before I when I very first started getting into UFOs and
I went on YouTube and all over the place trying to figure out what went
on in Shag Harbor. And I remember seeing Chris on He's been on multiple
TV shows about about the subject for one thing, and I know he was
and along with Don Letcher uh the early investigators of the case. And you
know, as I mentioned, there's something new that he's going to talk about
tonight, they always do something. Chris doesn't stop with this with investigating Shag
Harbor. He is so deep into it, and it's like, I feel
like his investigation is as active now as it was, you know, in
the beginning. So I'm not surprised he has some new evidence or new developments.
There's there's always something this is that good and it's like it's going to
be a treat for your listeners to hear him tell the story. Well,
you know, it's funny. You know, some people will say something along
the lines where, you know, why why do you always just talk about
old UFOs I think, which is not true. We talk about um,
whatever happens when it happens. If it's like, for instance, the Nimic
cases, the Nimics case is fairly new and a really amazing one, um
and so, but what happens is a lot of these old cases is that
there is people opening up after a while that never wanted to talk before,
and that's what keeps them alive and you know, keeps them really interesting.
I don't think it's going to happen to Roswell anymore because you know, those
uh, there's I think maybe one survivor that purported witness um if if any.
I think I think they're all gone at this point because that was,
you know, so many years ago. Yeah, but this case was nineteen
sixty seven and you know, many years ago. But there's there's still um
you know, you wouldn't think so, but there's still people that maybe didn't
want to talk about it at the time. For occupational reasons or whatever.
Absolutely, and it's just especially in that community, like you were there with
me two or three years ago in and around Shag Harbor. It's um,
this is a big part of that community's culture. So it's I think over
time people are probably less ashamed to be involved in some way. And then
of course you have you know, so you'll have people coming out of the
shadows basically to share their story. But then you have again Chris Styles digging
deep into any documentation or evidence left behind, and it seems like people are
always trying to find a new way to figure out what may have happened.
Like just last year there was famous divers. What's the family, the famous
the Custos. Yeah, it was like the Jock Custos, like grandchildren were
in the area filming a documentary and diving. That's right. I heard about
that. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what came of it, but
I think Chris was involved, so I'm sure he'll answer some questions, but
I'll have to ask him about that. Yeah, the the underwater aspect of
this is really fascinating that they were you know, it was research. I
have some I want to talk about myths too, because there are a couple
of myths out there that I want to get cleared up. Yeah, or
maybe they're not myths. I don't know, but it's still a lot to
discuss. But thanks for coming on and saying hi. And how far Remind
me how far away you are from shag Harbor. Well, I don't think
anyone is near it. That is, it's the middle of nowhere. I
think I'm about I think it's about a three hour drive. But it's like
if you pick the most boring direction to go from my house, it's three
hours just to nowhere, and then you can end up on this little street
where there's you know, UFO Museum, and it's beautiful. The area right
there is really beautiful. It is well right on the shoreline, it is
beautiful. So yeah, I enjoy Chris. I'm excited to listen in.
I'm sure your audience is gonna really be into this and have some cool questions
for him. I'm excited for this one. Yeah, excellent, all right,
Jordan. Well wait, I'll let you give a plug for your podcast
because you talk about UFOs well there often. I've also had Chris Styles on
several times. We did a live thing at a bar in Halifax and freaked
a lot of people out because they I don't think they weren't specifically coming to
see Chris and I talk about UFOs at the bar. But my show is
called the Nighttime Podcast. I cover Canadian unique stories, be it crime,
mysteries, UFOs, sightings. And you've been on a couple of times,
Martin, so I think, yeah, you're some of it. It's kind
of like a documentary podcast in a way. Right, Yeah, it's kind
of like very well done. I consider it like it's almost like the TV
show Unsolved Mysteries, except if it was on the radio and only in Canada.
Yeah right, all right, Jordan, you take care, Thanks so
much. Thanks for having me, Martin, take care. All right.
Before I get started with with Chris, I am going to play a trailer,
a trailer about a documentary that is made about him. And here it
goes, who is Chris Stiles? What? Who is Chris Ryles? Who's
Chris Stiles? Oh? Chris Styles, Um Styles Chris, Chris Chris Styles,
Christles Christles, christ Chris christ Chris. We saw UFO that day,
We saw up of undetermined origin and purpose. Better understanding of this phenomena is
to me one of the things that matter. You have stepped up to the
plate in our time. I think that science is in remiss to dodge the
question. They seem to enjoy that life is struggled, passionate pursuits or struggled.
But when you're passionate about something, you just do it. If they
were easy, I'm not so sure they would be that worth doing, and
we'd be talking about something else. The Shag Harbor case is probably stronger of
a UFO case than Roswell, you know, because we have the documentation that
Chris got his hands on, you know, from the Canadian government. It's
like the only, as far as I know, the only UFBO crash that's
backed up by the by the government. I ain't pray see and forget about
other planets and other worlds. Is there even anything other than this neighbor?
What we need to know, what the governments know about what was at the
bottom of shag Harbor? I am what I am with out apologies, that's
it. Welcome to the show, Chris. Good to be here, and
you just saw that for the first time. Yes, yeah, night,
yeah, yeah. I'm tampted to quote the bird and say much ado about
nothing. But you know, they always try to make this so mysterious,
but to me, it's just it's just another question that needs an answer.
Yeah. Um, you know, Chris, uh, I did meet you
up in shag Harmy. I know you don't remember because you met a lot
of people at that time. It was very busy. It was really an
exciting event. Um, what was was that the fiftieth Yes? Yes,
yeah, it was the thirtieth anniversary. Yes, yeah, incident and they're
having one every year now, right, Well, this year it's going to
probably not going to work. But uh no, never, No, that's
unfortunate. We're going to hit one in twenty twenty one in Yarmous. It's
unfortunate we were going to have it this year. But of course, the
all the concerns with COVID nineteen and the coronavirus, it's just not feasible.
Uh, you know, there were questions about the border, etc. So
you know, twenty twenty one as we're targeting. Now, yeah, that's
right. I mean getting in and be able to visit. I don't think
anyone is actually going between America and Canada tourists as far as I know,
Yeah, it was too risky because we had a lot of great speakers lined
up Debbie z Zego Meyer, Dave Marler, Rob Swide Technico who I've never
met, Ryan Sprague, etc. And But next year, hopefully we'll get
it all together and I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, yeah, awesome.
You know, as I mentioned to you off air when we very first
started talking, we have about ten minutes or so until we go into our
first our only break. Actually, if you can really go over, I
had mentioned this to you that there's a lot of new listeners, not just
to the show, but there are new listeners to the UFO, you know,
a phenomenon. And I know this because I'm constantly getting email from new
listeners that wanted want me to give them information, for instance, like it
what books to read, what you know, who to stay away from,
you know that that sort of thing as far as their research. A lot
of people are unfamiliar with this case. A lot of people know it very
well. But if you wouldn't mind, could you indulge us for what happened
in October fourth is at nineteen sixty seven correct? Correct? Yeah, Canada
Centennial Year, Summer of below and all that sort of thing. Let's try
and give it in a nutshell. It was like eleven twenty at night PM
Highway three the fishing village of shay herber Nova, Scotia, was a Wednesday
night, very transparent, clear atmosphere. You could see six magnitude stairs without
binoculars, and if anybody who was outside looked up, what they saw was
an unusual pattern of lights. Four lights flashing in sequence, and they went
one, two, three, four, and then it would repeat and flash
all together, and that unusual pattern that doesn't match commercial trap repeated over and
over. The lights were seen to hover over the Shag Harbor area for several
minutes, and then the series of lights tilted to a forty five degree angle
and descended rapidly to the water surface. They struck the waters of the Sound,
which is the local term for Shag Harbor, and produced the sound of
an explosion. And you know, several people immediately called the RCMP that were
in nearby positions. One of the interesting features of this case is that no
one reported a UFO. Of the seven calls received by the RCMP that night,
all simply said that they thought a planet crashed or that lights had gone
into the water. Two units were dispatched from two different directions, and when
they arrived on scene, there was a crowd gathering by what's known as the
Moss Plant, which still exists there to this day. And what they saw
was at this point a dome of yellow light on the water, and it
was moving toward open sea. Three RCMP officers who arrived on the scene also
saw this. One of the officers interesting, they saw it in the air.
The other two were in the detachment in nearby barringin passage. So they
got there and you saw this thing moving toward open sea. And within five
or ten minutes of that, it disappeared suddenly, and some thought it sank,
some thought it simply disappeared. They commandeered two local boats and went out
to the spot. Coast Guard also responded from the nearby life station on Cape
Sable Island. They went back and forth in the area and they found a
large streak of dense yellow foam and this foam was like eighty feet in width
and perhaps a half a mile in length, and it was something unusual,
and people that knew the local conditions well thought it was like nothing they'd ever
seen. The Sir carried on until last light and was resumed at first light
and we'd got back from the AIRCNP and the Rescue Coordination Center in Halifax.
After they took statements and conferred with the two nearby military bases that were US
bases at the time in Canadian Soil CFS Barrington at back Row and Canadian Forces
Station Shelburne. It went to CFHQ in Ottawa and an underwater search was ordered
by the Air Guess, which was Canada's Division of the Air Force, the
RCAF that dealt with UFOs. A five day search was carried out by the
Navy with divers and at that point was canceled and an announcement was made in
a press release that they found nothing and did not know what it was because
there were no missing or light aircraft. But that's it, in a nutshell
list of what happened. But that was hardly the end of the story,
right and we're going to discussed a lot of that. A couple of questions
I have right off the bat is the yellow foam? Did anyone take samples
of that? One of the local fishermen attempted to. Now you got to
remember when these men are going out. Nobody's even thinking UFO yet there,
but there there, this is a rescue mission. Yeah, they're concerned,
and they all tell you quite well. They remember what it was like.
They felt sick to their stomach. You know, it's a bad feeling when
you go out. I mean, and I hear this all the time here
in Nova Scotia when you have such a thing. I remember the crash of
Swiss air flight down in Paige's Code. You know, when the people go
out and they can't help and they don't find anything that they can do,
you know, you get this awful feeling. And that's what it was like
that night. They were going out looking for survivors. They didn't know what
they were into. I mean, what they were saying was confusing. And
when the AIRCNP were gathering up, you know, all the various witness accounts,
it was the composite of information that you know, really made them to
consider the alternatives right and you know, and of course as time went by,
they were in communication with the two nearby military bases Rescue Coordination Center in
Halifax, and there were no missing or late aircraft, but they saw anything
in the lights. They were together even when it was in the air,
imply that this was an object at least sixty feet across, and you know,
this is what they were running with. So Ottawa ordered an underwater search
that involved Canadian enabled divers that went on for five days, and you know,
it remains a mystery, and to this day the case is open and
unsolved. But yeah, anyway, to answer your questions, specifically, the
guy that attempted he took a deep neck and it was one of the local
fishermen who stiled down there, Norman Smith, and he dipped it in,
but it would just dissipate, you know, and you know, just kind
of evaporate and dissipate sort of thing. It was yellow. Some people claimed
it smelt faintly of sulfur or some say it had no odor. But he
attempted to pick it up in the dip net and it would just dissipate,
you know. But again, they were plying their lights on the water.
They were looking for survivors. And usually if it's a ditch in the water
like that, there's there's uh, you know, there's wreckage, there's oil
on top of the water. Did when did they? I guess the question
is when did they start to suspect this was unusual, really unusual, and
not probably a plane. Well, like I say probably, I'd have to
say by the next morning, because you know, at first you're just trying
to gather your data. You know, you're trying to get your witness statements
right. And a number of things played into this, and some of them
we have just found now. For example, on born Portage Island there was
a manned light hose in those days, and that would have had a perfect
view of this thing when it encountered the water. And as we now know,
we discovered that the light keeper's wife at the time, a woman who
since remarried, quite elderly now amous Isabel Towers, was looking out the window
and actually saw the moment of impact. And this is quite new when we
have a statement from her and details from people like that. Of course,
the AIRCNP would have access to all this, you know, the seven eye
witnesses they called in when they responded to the scene and saw what they saw
themselves with their own eyes as the thing moved upon the water. Remember one
of the officers saw it in the air. They conferred with the radar base
and RCC and everything, and as more and more reports come in, and
these details from the lake keeper's wife, from the coast Guard, from everybody
involved, from the men the road and the fishing boats and saw the foam
and the mountains went out with them. Eventually, you know, again,
as you confer with and you realize that Arno missing an aircraft, you have
to look at the other possibilities. It's a short list. Yeah, we
only a couple of minutes to the break, but I wanted to talk about,
well, first of all, what you just said there about the lightkeeper's
wife. That is basically breaking news. Yes it is. You know,
there was a lot of confusion about that. I had attempted to interview the
light keeper on the island a number of times over the years. He has
since deceased, and you know, he was married twice and had other relationships,
and we had trouble tracking down the woman and recently we were lucky enough
to find other relatives of hers that remained in the Shagarbor area and we tracked
her down in New Brunswick and we're looking forward down the road at getting more
detailed than her brief statement that she left at the time, and you know,
it's I'm really looking forward to her right now. I'd already be there,
except with the concerns about COVID nineteen and she's dealing with a bad health
problem in the family. You know, you have to respect that, but
very much looking forward bringing some more details about that, because I think that's
unique to Shake Harbor. I don't know, since I don't keep that current
with the literature, but I do know that when I read books by Jenny
Randall and Kevin Randalls at in UFO crash scenarios, nobody ever seems to see
the moment of impact. But we now have that attached to the case.
It's very exciting. Did she we only have a minute left here or so?
Did she mention why she didn't report this right off the bat. I
mean, it seems to me the first thing she was we wake up her
husband, who had gone to bed, right and you know, these details
were passed on. The next thing, you know, they were calling,
the coast guard was calling him. They had him do a patrol of the
shore on the island where the lighthouse was, and again the next morning.
And the next morning he claimed to find an artifact that he packed up and
went off to the US Navy that that's included in a documentary. I did
you know he's in the footage right in the end. It's a last section.
I believe it was the one called UFL Files Cole and Canada's Roswell.
Okay, yeah, excellent. Well it is time for us to go into
the break, so everyone hanging there will be right back right after these messages
justin. Can you hear me? Yeah? Can you hear me? Yeah?
It was all said, it was it was on my end. Uh
you know this is actually during the break on YouTube, but you're actually live.
Yes, sure, all right, So I just thought i'd bring you
in and introduce you while we have a couple of minutes left here and we
will be going back in in a couple of minutes. But I'm gonna have
to introduce you twice actually, but I just wanted to say, first of
all, thanks for being on the show. And the trailer that I played
that's titled Edge of mcgonia. That is your work, is that right?
Yeah? That's my work. And what exactly is the film is just about
Chris Styles. So yeah, as we all know, Chris has been doing
UFO research for decades and he's sort of a lone wolf trying to keep this
whole story alive. So what I've done is I've sort of followed him around
since twenty seventeen actually in putting these these clips together and hope to have someone
something released in the next few years with proper funding and a budget. That's
the idea. The premise of Edge of Magonia is all there. I think.
Yeah, that always that always holds a lot of people back. Money,
Yeah, a budget to do a film especially, there's so much involved
in that that people are just unaware of. Like I had Randall Nickerson on
that he is doing the Ariel Phenomenon film. I've spoken to a lot of
film makers over the years, and people just have no idea of the work
involved until you actually do it. It's true, it is a tremendous amount
of work. I mean, the thing about this movie that I'm making with
Chris is that there's no shortage of footage. Not only is Chris like constantly
busy. People are always approaching him for interviews and request for TV shows and
things like that, but there's an evolving cases as you'll find out down in
Shag Harbor that never ended in sixty seven and that's also going to be part
of that feature documentary and also is the subject of a short film called Riff
that I did that showcase last year at Alejandro Rojas and Karen's festival down there
at the International UFO Congress. Yeah, I shared the stage with Jeremy Corbell
and Jennifer Stein and Peter Robbins, which was, you know, a huge
momentous success for me as a filmmaker. That was my first film I ever
did, and to share the stage with them was greatly I lost. I
can't believe we didn't get together when you were there. I didn't think.
I wasn't there. I was. I had to film an acceptance speech if
I won, but I got it. Yeah, so it must have been
fun to at least film the scept and steep. It was definitely weird,
definitely strange. Yeah, there you go. So Justin, I'm going to
also bring in Chris and so here we are, all three of us.
So, h let's see where do we begin on this. Justin, first
of all, welcome to the show, and you are the filmmaker. You're
making this film. Two films one you already did that showed in U in
Phoenix, the Rift or it's just rifft right, yeah, and basically in
the nutshell can you kind of give an overall of what that is. It's
about what is going on in the Shag Harbor area other than you know,
just the event that happened. I'll leave the exciting part of the story to
Chris because there's a lot of minution involved, and Chris is, you know,
the prime investigator and all things Shag. And actually Chris was the one
that introduced me to Heather Ducette, who's the focus of that short film.
The film basically showcases one woman's reconciliation with being abducted by aliens in the same
town. You know that that that hosted the world's only government document to do
a fox crash. As Chris had mentioned earlier, um there people often think
that's the that's the beginning at the end of Shag Harbor, But the truth
is is that for decades, ongoing strange experiences have been happening, and Heather
is one of those people involved. There are two other women in the same
town that claim the same tale. They're both sisters. So some people side
with Heather and some side with the sisters. There's definitely an ongoing rift in
town. But that's just the beginning because I'm also shooting a film on a
guy from the same town whose claimed you have seen a sea monster there with
his dad and about four other people from town. It never ends with this
place. Jack Valet should really know about this place. Wow, that that
is, that is just quite interesting. I've you know, I've oftentimes I've
had um it's been kind of a hard pill to swallow. The abduction thing,
but I I don't I'm open minded to it. But for me to
say abducted by aliens, it's it's hard. That's a hard thing for me
to to actually picture that's happening. Although if there, if they can get
here, who knows, there may be some truth to it. I don't
know. Um, you know, I mean those the words of the two
people is that they think it's aliens. That you know exactly like, I'm
aside with you on that whole scenario. I mean, who am I say
whether it's aliens or not. There's definitely something engaging human beings. I'm certain
of that right, but we're still i think, very premature in a revolution
to really understand what that interaction is and what that might possibly be. But
yeah, it's hard to say what that is, but it presents itself somehow
to these people who truly believe it as extraterrest rules in some in some cases,
you know, I think we should take a little side step here,
um, Chris and and Justin and that is I think we should talk about
the uh the Cape Uh, I'm sorry, uh Sable Island sighting. That
is a sighting that you had, Justin yah and uh Chris, Um,
I know I saw the full footage of it. Um. You called Chris
on the phone and said get over here, basically, and there were who
were the witnesses that besides you Chris that came over there was Lorie Wickens actually
one of them. Yeah, yeah, he called me on the way there.
When I received that call from Justin, I was in the town of
Garmouth and I was going down there to meet somebody. Heather de Sette was
with me, the focus of Justin's film there, but she was just down
to help arrange and make contact with somebody else that was talking about some of
their UPO experiences. And they were nothing like abduction. You know, these
were sightings from long ago and it was interesting, and this is from somebody
who had a career as a physics teacher in the town. So I was
at the residence and we were just concluding when I received that call from Justin
at about three pm in the afternoon. He was very excited, telling me
to get down that he'd been filming a UFO over Cape Sable Island for ten
minutes or so, you know. So I made my way there as quick
as I could. On the way there, Laurie Wickins contacted me. And
I know this soundscrifted, but Laurie was the first witness to call the RCMP
back in October nineteen sixty seven about the Shake Arbor incident. He called me
up and answered the phonies, where are you? And I said, well,
I'm in Yarmouth heading toward He said, well, I'm on Cape Sable
Island. There's a UFO over the island right now. Oh you mean,
Laurie Wikins said, called me while I was on the way. The first
call was from Justin right, Yeah, I've got Heather in the cart.
You see what I mean. This sounds like it's scripted, like, yeah,
what are the chances right now? People have asked me now back in
sixty seven, of course, I witnessed the UFO that same night and barracas.
It's often explained in the documentaries. It's been given the term the Night
of the UFOs. Many people that were sightings over Nova Scotia that night.
I've seen the odd thing that's hard to explain in the sky since, but
nothing that I would say, Hey, that's a UFO, you know,
and it's something unconventional, But you know, I kept hoping that the chance
would come. The last time that happened, I was twelve years old,
the same night of Shag However, well, anyway, you know, we
made to the island. Several other people called me. Justin called back,
what's taking Salon to get there? And when I arrived on the scene,
just picture this doesn't make a great film clip. I pulled in with Heather
d set and I see Justin and Lorie Wickins coming over the dunes at Cape
Sable towards and I turned to Heather and I say, do you want me
to translate the look in their face? And of course I'm thinking, Martin
that this is a case of the one that got away, Because many times
over the years I've run to reported sightings or go outside, there's something over
you know, your area right now, or whatever. And of course,
you know, you just hear the details from others. So when we got
there, they come up with and they go, what kept us along?
Why? You know you should have been here? Man, it was really
something. Justin's trying to show me some of the images that he shot,
you know, with this can and eos. And we were there long longer
a minute or two when I looked around and it was gone. And the
next thing, you know, Heather points up and goes, there it is.
It's back. And we run over the dunes and down to the water's
edge, and at first I wasn't very impressed. I see something that just
looks like it could have been anything, could have been the plan of Venus,
could have been a dot. Oh to see, and it's coming toward
us. But already that Dad has given me a little something because the winds
at my back and it's coming toward us. From can see in the direction
where Justin had first filmed this. As we heard it later it was moving
west to east, but now it was in the east off shore and coming
toward us, and it appeared to be slowly descending at altitude too. Twice
during this period of the sighting, and there's no footage of this, it
disappeared and reappeared, and the second time it appeared it was closer, and
you could see the markings that were in this or the Many people have called
them the beams or or or posts or spokes. They're often referred to inside
and some people have suggested that it looked something like the peace symbol. Well
that's what that's not a bad description. The last time it reappeared, justin
it ran over the dunes and got me my Steiner eight power of binoculars from
the car and I had them pre focused, and when it reappeared the last
time, I had them right on it, and in my field of view
it appeared, you know, the size of the full moon, and I
could see some detail inside, and man, it was strange, you know,
the restructure. There was a point in it where you could look where
it just made no sense at all. It was like some kind of a
transparent mobius strip that folded in on itself. Very hard to put into words.
And we were so in trance looking up that you know, at one
point, a little rogue wave came in and we all got wet feet.
It was quite humorous, like they would have been made a great film clip.
Sometimes a couple of people come up and asked what we were looking for.
I was just as interested watching the reaction of the witnesses, you know,
the people around others were seeing it, and it was amazing, you
know, justin he was kind of you could almost I have to say to
him while he said in there listening that he was a great example of the
ODS factor, you know, he was his world was just down to that
and that was it. And he made a great comment. He looked at
me at one point memories saying, man, it doesn't care. It doesn't
One of the times it reappeared and it was getting closer and we could see
this was not just a dot. You could also see it was nothing conventional,
you know, um, and I know others had put that spin on
it. In fact, many of the people here that were witnesses. Some
people look got frightened and ran to their car, as a couple of young
girls had. Other people looked up and shrugged and walked away. You know,
they just said that, yeah, yeah, when I when I first
looked at it, Um, if I hadn't read your witness testimony testimony account,
I would have thought, you know, maybe when I first looked at
it, I thought maybe that's Venus, And you know, because I know
the daytime, there's daytime you can see venus sometimes, and then the weather
balloon when I thought it was translucent. And I can read a little bit
of what Mark d' antonio thought, but that was again before he actually read
your testimony about what this thing did. It wasn't just something stable in the
sky or right now, I'm going to play for the YouTube people. I'm
going to play UM the stabilized version of this UM as it was being shot.
It's about a two minute clip. I hope, so, I hope.
So if not U, if not, it's it's it's not safe for
work, so U no, please, I don't know if I can do
that. UM. You know, I played it and uh before and I
didn't hear any audio on it. But uh but uh uh, let's give
it a try. And uh, if it's if it's gonna if I hear
voices and I know what you're gonna say, I'll try to stop it here
it goes. Can you hear me? Martin right now. Oh, yes
we can. Yes, I'm just going to describe a little bit about what
I was seeing once I took this footage home and zoomed it in. Luckily
I had to tell a photo length even get this. It was a long
string of synchronicities that even got me to this point, you know, that
led up to this whole funny scenario of the original witness of Shag Harbor being
there, the feature of my film being there, Chris being there, all
of whom I call to show up on the scene for this. When I
took it home and zoomed it in, I noticed some strange things. Mark
di'antonio would be able to explain it better, perhaps, but you hear a
lot in terms of these cases where you see some kind of aura or almost
a distortion of the pixels around it. When I blew this thing up,
you can almost see a black halo around the rim of this thing. And
I did try to get you a version of this overexposed with the contrast and
exposure drastically changed so you could see this black ring and distortion around there.
Once I started playing with the saturation, all kinds of strange colors came out
of this that wasn't visible before that, So I don't know if this is
a weather balloon, and if it was, it's possible that the sun is
reflecting off this. But from my perspective, I had sort of I had
almost a religious experience being there, because if I hadn't been landing my drone
shooting that day in Shag about this guy who saw a see monster and ended
up in this place with a miniature lighthouse rather than the full size one I
had planned on shooting, I never would have seen this, and this never
would have happened. But when I had. When I first saw this,
the first thing I thought of was, you know, you've spent your whole
life reading about this, and even though the testimony you've read is legit from
government documents over the decades that you've been studying this, but to see this
up close and personal, I thought this was a really UFO. And what
it was saying to me was, why are you questioning this? This is
a definite and reaction between us and it, and if if if that's exactly
what this was, right, Um, well, I've just tried to look
for that image you sent me, because it is it is uh and it
showed and your your trailer clip there just just a few minutes ago, kind
of a close up of it. I should have told you too that there's
different download qualities for Vimeo. I didn't realize until I looked at it myself.
I think it automatically defaults to like two hundred and forty rather than ten.
Don't get technical on me now, people and the chat will understand.
But yeah, really like quality. But if you you know, when you
see the high quality version of the zoom, it's it's quite impressive. And
there was one clip I'm not sure that anyone but myself is seen where this
thing look ellipped. It looked elliptical to me because I've got like about an
hour a footage of this thing, right, and um, it was one
point where it almost looked crushed and was staying consistently crushed across the screen for
a period of time. So sort of makes me want to think that perhaps
it was a weather balloon, or I'm seeing this thing from a completely different
angle as if it's tilted right. Yeah, my my intuitive impression being on
the scene was that this wasn't a weather balloon because no one's identified it.
Yeah, Well, um, I did want to. I did want to
also, Um, Chris, I want to get your opinion as well on
this because um, as I had mentioned to you both prior that you know
Mark d Antonio, he's in astronomer and he's also the chief photo and video
analyst stuff for mouf on UM he was talking about the possibility of this being
a space balloon that was, you know, actually launched up into space and
you know, and so or or a weather balloon. You know, that's
what he was thinking after he looked at it. But UM, I want
you to, Chris, if you would argue the points and why you don't
think it was a weather balloon. Okay, there are several Like I said,
when I first saw it. Now, the footage that justin the show
in there was over an hour before I arrived on the scene. I got
there for the last seven minutes of the sighting, and ironically that turned up
to be the best seven minutes. At that point, all the batteries were
dead, you know, for cameras, and there was no chance of shooting
anything. I think I sent you a little still that I had on my
camera though, and that's what I was looking for. Yeah, Okay,
I'll see if I can find that. Yeah, at the at the last
part of the sighting. Here's the thing. There was no doubt. It
disappeared and reappeared. And when I say disappeared, it was like the throw
of a switch. And here's the strangest thing. When I got the binoculars
on it, on that last reappearance it began, it took a second or
two to reappear. When it did, it appeared as a black dot at
first, and you noticed that, And they've been speaking about the black ring
that appeared around it, you know. I mean, if you see this
here on a good monit or even as raw footage is very discernible. But
that last reappearance, it started as a black dot and it actually flared out
and it almost looked like a reverse imat of when you see a good shot
at the moment of totality and a solar eclipse, except that the parrot that
would be bright would be black, and it was the blackness that was blaring
out until again it just became that white thing with the blue beams inside of
it. Then, So how that is, I don't know. The other
strange thing about the weather balloon that was investigated of course, move Fond did
an investigation into this and it was handled by Ryan Stacy was their director of
investigations at the time. It's case nine five four four two. And initially
they thought, and I had trouble understanding this, that we were seeing the
star l tear now at three o'clock in the afternoon on an unusually clear day.
Yes, you can see Venus. You can't see the brightest star in
the sky, which is in the southern hemisphere. You definitely don't see the
twelfth brightest star in the sky. But the disappearance and reappearance is the thing
that nixes to me the possibility of an astronomical explanation or that of a weather
bloom. The other thing is I looked in for two launches. I mean,
we're investigating the whole thing, and so did and so did move On.
In the end they listed it as an unknown. One of the other
interesting things is the exact same kind of sighting occurred a year before over Mattawa,
Ontario, and again the firm of the report of that he had been
ocutors on it and you had taken some stills of it and again had the
smoke patterned inside it. And the kind of crazy details that I've reported.
They don't show up that great Injustice video, but you can see it on
a good computer and a good one or it's definitely there. But like I
said, I was there for the last seven minutes and it was the most
dramatic. I mean, the two disappearances and reappearances really did it. And
you know, the people that were standing with us in a group of the
beach when it would reappear, they go, there it is, that's back,
you know, when it would reappear, and there was no haze or
cloud cover or anything. So yeah, it was a crystal clear day about.
Yeah, very unusual for Nova Scotia, you know. And ironically,
we drove through a dense fog bank in Shag Harbor to get there. When
we were coming from here Amoutha. We tried to take a shortcut that heather
It suggested, and the fog was so thick you couldn't see fifty feet and
we come out the other side of it. We go across the causeway and
you couldn't have is the most transparent atmosphere we've ever seen around here in the
daytime. There there, it is right there. Yeah, yeah, that
spoke pattern in it. People have described it like the peace symbol, and
that's exactly what was seen in Mattauantario fifty weeks before that in twenty seventeen.
Could someone argue that that was like equipment to a weather balloon below? I
mean, has someone argued that. No, actually no, people have suggested
the possibility of a weather balloon. But in a weather balloon you can see
the olypical shape and the radio saun package hanging beneath it. Right. The
other thing is, in the last seven minutes, this was going against the
wind and it was descending an altitude until the final disappearance. You know,
weather balloons, I've watched many of them that are launched from Yarmouth and from
Shearwater. I live in Shearwater. I live in my way from it,
and they go up pretty rapid. You get pretty used to seeing them.
There's many many clips of that on YouTube where you can see how they rise
and even to the point of where they finally burst and you see that sort
of mist come out of them. You know, it's something I've seen many
many times. This was not that, yeah, and the shape of it,
I guess if you were looking at a their balloon. From underneath,
you would see more of a round shape, but a lot of them are
like oval oblong. Yes, because the weight of the radio saw and package
hanging, Yes, they get an elliptical shape, you know, being tucked
down by the way the mass. Yeah, and there's actually descending an altitude
makes it certainly curious to at least. Yeah, Yeah, it was.
It was odd, you know, and like I said, there were many
other witnesses. About three weeks after the event, we did a little thing
and showed this and some of the clips and explained what we've seen. And
uh, there were about sixty people showed up in the little museum, you
know. It was I actually had to do a second presentation, you know,
to get everybody in so they could view the clips and they could give
their details. But many, many people had recorded this, you know,
and it was interesting. Yeah, and what what was What was Muffan's take
on this when you reported it? Like I say, initially, you know,
I'd sent what I had with them, you know, I'd sent Justin's
clip and the other details I had. I'd already looked of course into wind
speed, direction, weather balloon launches that and I was passing whatever I had
onto them, and it was investigated by Ryan Stacy, the director of investigations,
and their initial findings was that it was possible it could have been the
star l tear, which I don't see either. You know, Yes,
you can see Venus and Jupiter in the daytime under great conditions, you don't
see stars in the daytime. And there was a great article I'd read under
that title, you know, can you see stars in the daytime? On
Science Digest, And that kind of puts it to bed when you read that.
Anyway, they changed it to an unknown listing on that case nine five
four four two and there it's it's you know, but it sparked me.
It was funny, you know, Like I say, I remember just much
watching justin watching all the other witnesses, the reactions on the beach, and
that was something that was went everything from complete apathy to fear. Yeah,
you know, some people saw it for what it was. Some people didn't
really see it, but it was it was a second kick at the can
for me, and it sparked me to consider a lot, how I would
call minority theories as to what may be behind this. I've always believed you
know, when people introduce me and I'm on the stage, I always try
to get them to say I have a blended view of the phenomena, where
yes, I have room for the extraterrestrial hypothesis, but I also think that
there's a strong psychological component to this and a lot of things we don't understand.
I also think that the category of unknowns, the ones that hold up
under close scrutiny, have multiple causes, you know, which may ultimately be
conventional. And I think some of the audios that were popular are in the
field, you know, back in the sixties and the seventies that have been
abandoned are still valid. And one thing the sighting did was kind of charged
my battery and reconsider them. You know, when you look at the behavior
a lot of these sightings, particularly of the spheres and orbs and lights at
night, particularly in terms of aircraft sightings, pilot sightings and sightings like this,
is that sometimes some of the behavior, when you look at it all,
it's very reminiscent of cat and most behavior you know of a of a
living thing. You're not the first one I've heard say that, yes,
and I think some of that work, some of the work, and not
some of it from people like I don't know if you're familiar with Trevor Constable
and his books from New Zealand. But he believed that there were creatures like
this that we're living in the upper atmosphere. Oh yes, and sometimes they
were visible. Certain things would happen. And you know, one of the
interesting theories he had back then. I forget which book, it's not the
more common one. Anyway, here's the thing. He thought that sometimes powerful
radar, military radar would affect these things and they get too close, and
it was one of the things that would make them visible. And he used
to try to take pictures of this with ultra violet light, which ultra violet
film, which he thought might pick them up. And in some cases maybe
it did. Maybe it did, and there was nothing there that impressive.
But he had this theory. And when you think about that, and we
looked right across the water from the beach on Cape Sable Island, you know
Daniel's Head beach. I look right across them. What's there but the big
Nora geodesic dome over the automated station. Now that's that end of the pine
tree line for Nora d so about that that came back to me. So,
but you know, just in general, I think a lot of these
things. You know, there's one of the things. The other thing now
is you know, there's some huge revolutions going on even in the field of
biology, some theories that are starting to gain a bit attraction. I don't
know if you've heard or you're aware that, you know, some biologists are
considering what they call a shadow biosphere, that such a thing may exist with
us right now, and that it's basically unnoticed and you know, represent something
that's really different. Then again, there were certain details of the siding that
when you really get close to them you start analyzing, including some of the
photo analysis that move on set me that they did later. You know,
you could look at it, you could come up with theories that involve some
trains dimensional aspect, but the shadow biosphere. And then again, I'm not
ready to put the eth to bed either, but when you look at the
behavior or some of these things, you know, it's very much like a
cat and most behavior, you know, and you've got to keep an open
mind. Yeah. Absolutely, justin I want to thank you for stopping by
and sharing everything with you and just a real quick question. What was your
feeling during I mean, you seemed really excited. I listened to the the
video with the audio. Yeah, I did this. What was your overall
feeling about the whole thing? I mean, we're kind of blown away by
it. You see, your shure seemed like it. Yeah. I mean
one minute, I'm there filming and I don't see anything. In the next
minute, it's where were you filming? Where were you actually filming? I
was filming right down the road from heather Do sets place, right down the
road from where the UFO crashed in sixty seven in Shag Harbor, right around
the corner from the beach where I met Lori and Chris and Heather on Daniel's
Head Beach, just to get film footage for I was doing b roll for
background footage for my Monster movie. Right, So, my impression when this
thing showed up was it's a ping pong ball. And then you know,
I had a mental aberration. I thought that's impossible, and then I was
like, Okay, it must be a bag or something. So my first
impression was end the drone back up as far as possible, because I could
get that thing up a couple of miles and yeah, and on the way
up, you know, it was on me. It was at the end
of its battery life, so I had to land it. I couldn't get
it. All my cameras other than the one that I filmed with died,
and that one eventually died on the beach. When Chris arrived. My initial
impression was, this is very unusual, and it's freaking me out because I'm
all alone and I wasn't even supposed to be here, and I am.
And my intuitive sense was as corny as this sounds, because I hear it
all the time, super cliche, but it's like, this thing's here for
me. I can't explain why I thought that, but there were too many
weird coincidences that put me at this spot with this miniature lighthouse. I don't
why was I in that particular place when I was supposed to be somewhere else
not wasn't even supposed to really be there, right, Yeah, And witnessing
this thing and experiencing it sort of I almost had a religious experience. Like
once I zoomed in with the telephoto lens and I saw what I saw with
the trendslucent blue in the center of the spokes and the ominousness of how slowly
it moved over me. Nothing moved this There was wind, gus, but
nothing moved this thing. It was in a steady traversity over top of me,
towards the beach. So you know, I'm my own best skeptic.
So I never want to jump in. Chris will tell you that right away.
But I can't help to think about how strange this is. Not only
that, but how strange it made me feel, because it almost felt like
I was communicating with this thing on some strange level. I know on corny
that sounds or it was communicating with me somehow to reassure me that, you
know, we all need to be more open minded to the fact that our
egos really need to disappear for us to understand our place in the cosmos.
And we're only beginning to get there. Yeah, yeah, that's a good
point about the egos. But regardless of a weather balloon or not, this
is where we need to be going as a people. I think, Yeah,
all right, well said justin thank you and again it's it's always been
a pleasure and hope to meet you again someday. Thanks everybody. It's great
to be here, Martin. It's it's been a pleasure, all right.
You take care, thank you? All right, all right, so let's
get right back into Shag Harbor if we can. Chris, you know,
that was a really good jag though very interesting, um you know updated.
But one of the things I want to ask you is about the There's some
myths, and I'm not sure if they're myths, but there is something that
I had heard, I don't know several years ago about the divers um actually
talking about what they saw while they were that they actually did see something and
like it was a rescue mission underneath underneath the water. Is that Is that
a myth? Well, I've actually not heard that it was a rescue mission,
so that parts. Yeah, Actually, that's the first time I've heard
that really. Yeah. I actually attempted to interview all of the seven divers
that were sent down, right, only two spoke with me when they were
two alive, and back when I wrote the first little book with Don Leger,
we agreed to grant them immunity. But it's a very limited immunity.
You know, there wasn't all that many people in the fleet diving unit in
those days. In Halifax, and you know, we knew who was there.
And like I say, two of the men talked very openly to me,
and I never heard those claims. What I did here was that when
they were arrived in Shag Harbor, they knew that the object was no longer
they were resting on the bottom, and of course the last known service position,
it was seen moving toward open sea. But okay, whether therefore you
move on from there? When you say that it was seen moving out to
open sea? Does is that on radar or sonar? I mean no,
no, this is just visibly that night while it's on the surface. Because
remember when this thing hits the water, when the RCMP and the crowd of
witnesses show up by the moss plant, right, this thing is still floating
on the surface. Oh it's still a long time. The mount he saw
this thing. You know when they got there, it wasn't gone right.
In fact, you know, to paint the picture for you. You met
Lorie Wickens, I think you remember give us the first person to call the
RCMP that night, and like all others, he simply reported that lights are
a plane and crashed, that you guys better get here. And when he
hung up in the phone. Remember there's no there was no street lights down
there in those days. Above the road, it's dark. The moon had
already sat right, there's no cell phone. They had to drive up the
road a bit further and call the rc and Pete Attachment and Parenting passage on
a public phone, you know, a phone booth. And when they called
in and reported that, you know, the mountay didn't seem that and press
said yeah, well they'll check into it, and we hung up the phone.
The friends in the carbon lorry were saying, like, the mountain's coming,
the mountain's coming. They're quite excited because that again they thought they'd seen
a plane crash. And he's saying, well, I'm not sure they believe
me, and he was starting to get in the car. They were going
to leave the scene. The phone rang and the RCNP callback said, Wickens,
are you still there? We'll stay there, We're on the way,
And he said, well, I can still see it off shorts all over
the water. Stay there, we're on the way. Well, by that
time, six other people had called in from other locations around the area to
report the same thing. So but when the RCNP got there, they still
saw it. Remember, like I said, there were three officers that responded.
Two would come from the detachment. The third officer Ron Pond, He
was actually on Cape Sable Island on highway patrol and he saw it in the
air, and of course when he got to the scene it was still on
the are moving around. Did they describe what they actually what the object actually
looked like when it's in the air. People just simply saw the lights and
you know, four lights flashing in the sequence I described earlier, right the
way they moved together. The implication is that their lights attached to you know,
once solid object that was described by everybody has been at least sixty feet
across. In fact, you know from the composite information to the Mounties that
was passed on to Canadian Forces headquarters. There's a memo that went through you
know ibocopy. It's one of the many documents we had that came from D
and D and I received it on a request before it got included in NARG
seventy seven and National Archives. And the thing is it says quite clearly in
that our preliminary investigation has been conducted. This is thirty six hours after the
incident by the Rescue Coordination Center in Halifax, and it has been determined that
this object was at least sixty feet across, was circular in nature, and
was in fact not a missing aircraft flare float or in fact is no known
object. And this is on a report that went to the Defense Minister,
so you know, the composite of details they felt that strong and that's why
they decided to order an underwater search asap. Wow. All right. Another
one of the myths I guess that I have heard, and you know,
perhaps it's just maybe I read in the wrong places or whatever, but that
they thought the object had traveled a good distance underwater. Yes, all right,
yeah, And well, myths or not, The story is that they
had believed that, yes, the largely intact object had left the area and
had traveled underwater up up to the coast off Shelburne and came to on the
seabed near Government Point, that which is the location of the former US base
CFS shelburn And that was the Coordination Center was Canada's most secret base. It
functioned under a cover story being a biological research station. It was like the
coordination center for submarine detection for the hot Lantic Ocean was hardwired to a base
in Argentian, Upland and Key West, Florida, and they basically microphone the
whole ocean. The cables for that and the controlling data all arrived ashore right
down at Shelburn at Government Point. You can still see where the cables came
out of the water to this day. So how well documented is that that
they think the object moved there? Well, this is what the divers told
me. There. Here's where it gets strictly, we have a wealth of
data and documentation. We actually have many of the military telexes that went between
the basis, you know, regarding the search and shag Harder. We have
nothing that confirms this story told to me by two of the gram by divers
from the Fleet Diving unit, that this thing sat off Shelbury, although in
the story there's actually more to it. They claimed that when the naval ships
and the divers arrived and they held station over this point, when they went
down, what they claimed was that there was in fact two echoes there and
one was lending assistance to the other. That's what I was talking about,
That's right, yeah, And that's what was told me, and I can
remember at the time being so this may sound funny now inherent to believe,
but believe me, in the beginning, I was really cheesed off by this
when they told me that, because I thought like I was hoping to avoid
those kind of situations, like we're already problematic even at that point. You
know, in the early nineties in Roswell, you know, where you had,
you know, different versions of what happened and who was involved and who
saw what. I just thought, well, you know, I hadn't seen
that. I hadn't heard that before. I don't remember from the media back
in the day. It wasn't being reflected in the documents. So I just
kind of put it off, and to me it was problematic. I didn't
like it. But as time went by, it was clear you can't pick
or choose your data because what we did find is that this story hit legs
and it just kept resurfacing. And eventually what happened is there was documents a
surface like an RCMPX file that did refer to a second simultaneous search for a
UFO off Shelburn. So yes, yeah, I found that at Saint Mary's
University in Halifax. Among the papers of the late father Michael Burke Gaffney.
He was the astronomer that started the program there. He also would investigate UFOs
at the time. He was like a community contact for things on the East
Coast and worked closely with the air desk in Ottawa. You know, go
ahead, Oh no, no, go finish your thought first. Well,
I'll tell you too that. You know, one of the things I did
is I went to Ottawa and I went through and looked for paperwork there and
files that couldn't be transferred to Halifax. There were files I knew that existed
that weren't part you know. The RG seventy seven is a collection they had
up there that deals with UFO sightings from the early sixties up into the eighties,
and that was available, you know, through the Inner Library loaner system.
You get us sent down to look at it, little eight millimeter roles
of film. And I looked at all that stuff, but I knew there
were documents being held up there that weren't transferable, and we're in a law
and I eventually got a grant from the Fund for UFO Research, went up
there and went through them. Found some more stuff, but nothing that would
knock you over. But while I was in town, I managed to get
a three hour face to face interview with one of the people that ran the
air desk back in the day, which Squadron leader William Bain. And he
was the one who was quoted in the Halifax Ronical Herald and all the press
coverage at the time in both the Shag Harbor incident. And he was one
of two majors, you know, plus a colonel and the other support staff
that ran the air desk, which was Canada's equivalent of Blue Book. And
I talked to him and he believed that this was a genuine case that you
know, they weren't mistaken. It wasn't space jump. There was only six
hundred things in orbit then right ironically it was ten years to the day after
the launch of Sputnick. Oh my goodness, yeah, isn't it funny?
Ten years? And but you know, we talked a lot about it,
and of course one of the things I bounced off him and I wanted to
hear the answer, for he had no idea, had never heard the Shelbourn
story, you know, of the this second simultaneous search or whatever. And
I showed him why I think it may have happened. I told him what
the divers told me. I showed him a copy the RCMPX Wile and other
things like that that were porting that it may have happened. And he speculated
to me it was possible that they'd been stick handled by the Americans. Remember
that base at the time had just come under dual control. Originally it flew,
you know, it was just a US base on Canadian soil. But
in a couple of years before it had come by an arrangement where you know,
they would alternate you know, commanding officers and other things. And it
was fifty percent manned by Canadians a fifty percent by Americans, and the data
was shared and let I say, it had a very important function there,
right. You know me, I'm one of these things. I'm like a
dog with a bone. I just kept going at it. I'd look up
in the weekly newspapers at the time and tried to find things that would you
know, that they couldn't control that it would show in other areas. But
in the end, no, there was nothing that concrete. You know,
it remains a story. It may may always be I don't know, but
you know, it's a hard one to understand. And one of the things
that's interesting too is, you know, when I looked at the newspaper that
was closest to the event, which was the one in Shelburne, there was
no coverage of the Shag Harbor and said, every and all the other weeklies,
every other paper in the province covered it. You know, lots of
press, right, lots of speciulation, yes. And the stringer for that
paper was a guy who the reporter was Major Victor Eldrich, who was the
EXO at the base. So I went and I called him, and he
claimed he didn't know what I was talking about. And I started reading the
story to him back in the day, and he asked me what I was
trying to do, and I said, well, I'm just trying to get
to the truth. I was hoping I wouldn't put a little pressure on,
I said, I hope I wasn't going to have to resort the speculation as
your role in this, he told me I should be very careful hung out.
Oh my odd yeah, And being the kind of guy was back then,
I drove right to his house and knocked on his door in the Arab
and went to him confront of him about it, and he told me I
should be very careful, you know what I mean, you know, just
one call and I wouldn't go on about it. But I knocked his door,
opened the door. I said, I was the guy on the phone.
I said, you tell the guy. I said, he pays your
bench and check. Too dumb to quit and I left. Yeah, that's
all. I'll never forget it. You know, how about that? I
was, I was, I was still jazzed up. It was all new
then, it was. It was like that. Anyway, I'm in Ottawa
right and I'm talking to squadron leader William Bean. He should know. He'd
never heard of the Shelburn story. I was very disappointed that, but I
took him at his word, and, like say, he speculated a bit.
He even told me that he'd had us both sightings as an S two
subtracker pilot about the ghost of Nova Scotia, ironically one hundred miles off the
Ghost Corps Shelburn. So you know, he seemed to be very honest about
this, but he believed that was a j one case. You know.
Wow, Now, was Wilbert Wilbert Smith alive that at that time he was
not. He died at sixty two. Oh I see, okay, I
was wondering if he was up. Yeah, so I just had my years
off on that. Um. Now, let's talk about how this became an
official UFO that was actually determined to be a UFO by the military, which
is the only case that you know, until recently with the Pentagon actually admitting
you know, these videos, this was the only other case the military basically
had admitted that. Right well, you know when they terminated the search,
m you know, after the five day underwater search they conducted in the area,
right Um, you know they're saying, you know, no results of
the search effort. We don't know what it was, no missing or lady
aircraft. It was one of those things. We never knew what we're looking
for. As a result, the case remains open and unsolved. But what
we do know is the cases like that Stephen Mischelich and others were referred to
in documents that are archived in National Library and Archives Canada as it's called now,
that state quite clearly that these were cases that seemed to indicate something real
on the ground and was the reason why they closed the air desk and handed
it over to the National Research Council for what they deemed serious scientific investigation.
However, that didn't quite pan out that way. It did. For the
first few years they had a couple of very dedicated staffers in the form of
a geologist from Nova Scotia and professor at the University of Toronto, but they
eventually weren't replaced, they didn't call on field units, and by nineteen ninety
nine they were Canada was out of the business officially, But of course,
you know, when these things happened, they still look into them. You
know, there may not be a repository for the reports that's available to the
public, but they still do. By the way, the guy who gave
me the veiled threat not so veiled threat, and who wrote that story a
month later, when I was going through and looking for things I'd missed.
On November second, this is a month after the shak Harbor incident, he
put an appeal with his name on it in every newspaper in Nova Scotia,
saying military once UFOs reported, how to get hold of them? Really yes,
and his name is on a major vick out. It's on the front
page in those papers. On November second, but he had no interest.
He didn't know what I was talking about. He could threaten me, so
it was still a hot potato in some circles. Yeah, isn't that amazing?
So you said earlier, you were twelve years old when this happened.
When did you actually start looking into the nineteen ninety two, ninety three My
first actor, who Folowedy was. I think a letter I wrote to Stanton
Freeman after watching a rerun of Solved Mysteries right, a partner of a former
girlfriend of mine dared me to do it, saying I kept saying I was
gonna see goes. No, you won't know. You made me call him
up right there. Turned out I called this is in the battle days before
calling plans. He wasn't at home. A human answering service answer and give
me a number. And I called it and he was in Austin, Texas,
about to go to a talk. He talked to me for twenty or
thirty minutes, gave me a bit of sage advice that started me off on
the thing. The first thing he said, I'll tell you this, mart
You'll like this. Stanton was a freed and said, well, you know,
he says I don't remember that, and eventually he did remember. Wait
a minute, he goes something about the harbor turning yellow or something, and
he said, well, i'll help you know, I'll talk to some friends
at the fund pret arb Research, and I'll see what else. And he
put me onto people that were very helpful to me with the fund and from
move on. However, you'll like this, he says, you're in luck.
He goes, fisherman, don't move, and he gave me all that
kind of grea little practical advice, and I jumped right on it, you
know, and I figured, well, it's better than collecting stamps or some
hobby like that. And I was over the blocks. I made lots of
mistakes, i'll tell you, but I was persistent and persistence pays off,
right. Yeah, yeah, that's what you're You're definitely known for that used
to call me a bulldog. People say who's Chris Styles? Like you notice
that that that little catchy crypto tries to make me look mysterious. There that
in this clip that present here. I just wanted to say the answer because
I know what Stanton would say. That's what he always I think of Who's
Chris Styles? Because Chris Chris as a bulldog. So when like, as
the years go on, you're you're you're still fascinated by this case, obviously,
yeah, and you're still I mean, how do you how do you
dig further? And well, luckily at this point you know, um,
I'm not the bulldog I was. I'll tell you, but at this point
in time the case has a certain momentum. Sometimes the many documentaries us involved
with get Re Ryan, or I do a spot on a show like yours,
and somebody just makes a connection that didn't know of it, didn't know
of my work, and they tracked me down whatever I mean, for example,
I forget what it was now, God must be six seven years ago
or whatever when we first heard from the pilot and flight engineer from pan AM
one sixty. Oh yes, I want to talk about that. Yeah,
yeah, no, that was just great stuff. And you know the ironic
thing about that. There's a chapter in the book. By the way,
if anybody's interested in this is you know, turning your crank and you think
you want to know more. Perhaps the best book I did I co wrote
with Graham Simms, and it's available on Amazon dot com and it's called Impact
to contact. And the last chapter in the book deals with PanAm ONUND sixty,
which was just a new find at the time, and it explains well
in it because ironically we just put the other pilot sighting to it that never
should have been connected, and I always objected to it, and I argued
with TV producers, I argued with Dawn Ledger a few times about it.
It was just too far away and there were other problems. And that was
their Canada flight three oh five, and ironically we'd found and I talked to
the co pilot from that flight and connected a few other things and tracked down
a rocket launch out of Wallops Island and it was a cosmic ray experiment.
They did lots of them back then, and we put it to bed and
the pilots accepted that. We all thanked Captain Touch and my god, it
wasn't Two months later I got a call from Stan Creeve and he said,
these guys are trying to find you. They think they saw this the night
before because they got buzzed and it was a near collision with their PanAm cargo
jet over the Gulf of Maine hit he just before they crossed over Shakehrgar and
eventually we connected up with Ralph Lowinger, who was the co pilot m and
they flight engineer Michael Little Page. They're still alive. I've met rel We
were this year. If we had not had to put off the conference stool
next year due to the COVID nineteenth concerns, then they were both going to
come up this year. And I sure hope they can make it next year
that they're still well and still willing. They've been up once before and they're
great guys, and boy, they can tell the story. They can put
you in that cockpit. I'll tell you, because especially Michael Little Page,
he was like, it's quite terrified. He was the junior man that night,
and like you said, they were just too close. You know,
they were at the fiftieth, weren't they. Gee, I can't remember they've
been up and they were up. I think so, yeah, I think
I remember hearing the pilot. But can you can you tell an account of
their story how they viewed it? Sure, they used to do a weekly
flight that would start at Jfkine. The way these things worked in the day,
they would fly and they would come up the coast before they got on
the right factor to go over to start crossing the Atlantic. And the thing
is like they would go from every week I think it was Wednesday night or
whatever he said, they would leave and they would go from JFK over to
Heathrow, and then the next night they would go Heathrow to Germany and then
Germany onto Japan, and then the next half the week was the return and
they have a little time off. Well anyway, they were on one of
these flights and they're just about in the middle of the Gulf of Maine,
coming up to what they used to call the Davy intersection. And I actually
have a chart here from that night where they used to write the notes on
and everything. So they're just about midpoint and they notice these lights up in
the distance and the first thing they're thinking, they look almost like landing lights.
They're getting kind of bright, but they're just int at first. But
eventually they gain on them and they drop down from above and they get right
in their flight path, in their nose you could say, in their face,
and they're starting to get concerned and a couple times Captain unfortunately he was
deceased. By the time, you know, I get involved and connected with
Ralph and Michael little Page. But when the pilot you know, communicates,
and at this point they're still being controlled by Boston Center, right, and
he's asking if they're showing anything, and the only thing he's showing on his
radar is that there's a flight a sack refueling plate about twenty thirty miles behind
them, but nothing up a hit. And he eventually gets them to check
with the military and all this, and they start to gain on this and
they're getting closer and closer, you know sort of thing, and they're getting
off to the Davies Inner up near that and that would be the handoff point
where they get passed off from Boston to Monkedin Center before they start going across
the pond. And what happens is, you know, they keep communicating the
flight engineer. He's getting more and more nervous, and you know, they're
gaining. He eventually goes up to the windscreen and cups his hands to get
rid of what little cabin light there is so he can see better. And
he realizes that the four lights on what he's seeing are not external lights but
our internal lights, and that he's looking into the thing now. He never
sees any movement or beans or anything like that. At this point, he
gets really scared, like he said, I had you know. It just
got him in the pit of his stomach. And he gets back and he
goes Kurt, man, we got to get out of here, like like,
we're too damn close. If one little thing breaks off this where,
you know, we're screwed. So Kurt tells them all to calm down,
everyone getting their seat, and we're going to come out of autopilot. And
they're aboute to do that, and just as they're about to come out of
autopilot, if this thing starts to shoot ahead, gives them a little distance,
then angles up and just right up out of the stratosphere. So they
call this in and Boston Center hangs them hands, hands them off to Monk
and Center. They asked, you know, just like that scene in the
Close Encounters of the Third Kind, you know about the Indianapolis citing, like,
you know, do you want to follow the UFL report? And they
declined and they flew on. But what caught them was I think they heard
the media reports about shag Herber. It was a couple of days later they
were in Japan and they said, my god, that's where we were flying
over. We saw that thing, you know, maybe the night before,
but you know, and all those years later they connected with us. Ralph
came up and you know, he wrote and gave us a written statement and
I've since gotten one from Michael Little Page. And it's not every day you'd
get, you know, a career pilots to give you a written report and
testify that you know, they had a near collision with the UFO. Absolutely
good stuff. Yeah, and back then, you know, in sixty seven,
that wasn't something that was reported. I mean, it's still not reported.
No, there's still uh you know, unless they want to write a
desk you know, that's that's right. And they didn't have that interest.
They wanted to, of course the junior guys. But you know, uh
Kurt what was his name, Uh Kurt Olsen was the pilot. Like I
never got to meet him, he was already deceased. He put the kai
bosh on and said, no, we don't want to follow a report.
You know. Yeah, I guess it was just like in the movie.
They asked them twice, you know. Yep. Now let me let me
let me ask this about did they just see lights, and then they realized
the lights were coming from the interior or did they see a structured craft of
some kind. Again it was starc out and again no moon, and again
great visibility. They remarked that they were seeing herring Sainters out in the Bay
of FUNDI wow, that we're probably one hundred miles away. So he had
that kind of visibility, but they couldn't really see any detail. Again,
the placement of the lights and they're moving together implied that this was part of
the structured you know, that there was some form in between right. Interestingly
enough, one of the few cases where somebody said they could see the form
was you know, and that it was around object or that you know,
had some ball is in the case of the RCNP officer Ron Pond, and
when they first interviewed him in the early nineties, he could make out the
form against the starfield. You know, the sky was so transparent and you
know, so much the starfield was so dense that he could kind of see
it against that. But most people, most people you know, seeing it
from indoors or looking through a window or through the car, weren't getting that
level of detail. But I mean, I was remember when Michael Littlepage shold
me, you know, when he looked cupped his hands to the windscreen,
it looked in and he realized the lights were in turn. Wow, he
wanted nothing to do with it, you know. Yeah, But aren't they
when they have something that is a danger, aren't they supposed to report it?
Well? Yes, yeah, but then again that comes with a cost,
doesn't it. Yeah? You know, I mean there is that stigma.
I mean, technically they are supposed to record it. And it's like
in the story, remember I told you that Bick Eldrich had put in all
the papers in Nova Scotia Military once UFOs reported and when you read it tells
you who to get hold of and how and encourages pilots to report and all
that. But they know what kind of poison that compete to a career,
you know? Yeah? Yeah, I think I'm going to open the lines
and if someone wants to call in. Of course, there's there's still a
lot more to cover on this, but I just I thought i'd give the
opportunity for callers that numbers eight five five four seven two five four eighty three,
and Bill is standing by to take care to screen your call. Now
as far as um their myths, are there any other myths that you can
think of that you'd if you had a chance to clear up, that you
would actually clear up? What about Shag Herb Yeah, Shag Harper, Yes,
I'm sorry, Yeah, well I'm sure there are Well, yeah,
they're I mean one of the things that every now and then is kind of
an irritant that resurfaces over the years. Somebody thinks that, you know,
oh, somebody just shot off a flair And I've had people call up and
try to confess to that either. Really I think it was them, And
I don't want to give you my name. I'm telling you you're in a
community of fisherman. Yeah, and you do with our CNP officers in the
fishing village. I think they know the difference between a flare. Yeah.
Yeah. The other thing is, like you look at pan M one sixty.
I don't think flaires get up to thirty three thousand feet, you know,
but you'll always have you'll always have a skeptic or I mean, what
did Phil Phil Class? Now, I'm glad you asked that. I met
Phil Class a couple times and the first time I met him, I'll tell
you this quite well, I was, this is quite interesting. Well,
it's entertaining. I don't know how interesting it is if you do. You
know you had memories of Phil class of course, right, yeah, yeah,
okay. I met him in Greensboro, North Carolina in nineteen ninety six.
It was July fourth weekend, right. I was presenting at a move
on conference, right, and it was Saturday morning, I can remember.
And the first speaker ahead of me was Kevin Randall. Right, yeah,
And I didn't know. This was the first time I was in the US
to speak to present on Shank Herber and I was kind of wondering, like
I hadn't done a lot of television, and I'm wondering, like, are
they going to be interested on this Canadian story? How do they receive it?
As at a tough audience? I didn't know. People said, I
relaxed, it's a love in you know, it's a U. But I
didn't know. And Kevin Randall went out and did a talk and in the
talk he said a couple of things, and I know Kevin didn't mean this,
but they were seen as a bit of a disc to oh, of
course Smouth in New Hampshire, the first of yea, Betty and party Hill,
Betty Hill. Yeah, brain slipping here, Betty Hill. And he
was booed. You could hear the booze. And at the end of his
performance, perhaps forty percent of the people clapped in the other sixty percent booed.
And I sat there my first time before us there was they were still
getting large crowns at the move On convention then, you know, and I
remember thinking world tough audience, like anyway, you do what you do.
At showtime, I was the next speaker, and I went out to present
and I looked down front and here's Phil Class sitting right in the front row
with his little handheld to set recorder, leaning beforeward, walking up at me.
And I looked at him. And I can remember as a boy,
because when I was a boy, you know, after Shake Harbor, I
became interested in the phenomen I read what literature there was then, things like
the UFO experience behind it. You know. I remember looking at pictures of
Phil Class when he was narrow black tie and to me, the pooloo things
he said, I said, I vilified him as the devil, you know.
Anyway, there he was in front of me, ready to listen to
me. So I did the presentation on shake Harber, and I should say
that when Kevin was speaking, he fell asleep and dropped the state recorder.
You know, I love that. You know all the it's a fact,
this is what happened. So I went up, I did my thing.
He stayed awake for me. He listened. He seemed to be very intent,
right, And when my presentation was done, I got a great round
of a clause from everybody. A lot of people set up. It was
great. And when I was done, I had to coax them to get
any questions. People didn't seem to know what to make of it at first,
back then, you know, and when I finally got some I can
always remember. The first question actually was, well, you know, you
seem to be that much behind the scene and dealing and being an irritant or
you must be to the government there like have you ever had been confronted or
had to deal with men in black? And I started laughing. I didn't.
I said, I don't know what to say. I'm not home anymore.
I can tell that. I said, no, no, men in
black. I said, well, there was once a rude guy from the
coast guarding the chief round. Polyaster really got the right side of me,
you know, but no no men in black. And anyway, when it
was all done and I came off the stage, the first person to run
up to me and hand me a character was Kevin Randall. Yeah, I'm
doing a book called the Randall Report UFOs in the nineties. You're the first
chapter. And that did come out the next year. I had to go
to his hotel room and did an interview, and that was true. The
next person to come up to me was Phil Class and he was nodding and
he said, well, well, well I guess I can retire now you
Canadian guys have explained it all. He said, uh no, He says,
I remember that case. And you know what. He goes, something
did happen there? Now, he says, I'm gonna go home. I'll
probably put something on my website. He goes, don't let me that bothery,
don't let that bother Chris. He said, you did a great job,
a very interesting case. Congratulations, and he wanted to get his picture
taken with me, and that was it, and he just you know,
and I encountered him one other time a few years later, doing a talk
in Trenton, New Jersey, and same thing. Then he said, never
did get the anything putting on that site. That wouldn't worry about because because
something did happen there and that was from Pail class. That's really that's really
odd. That's so unli the behavior that Yeah, I know we know him,
be honest, heart, he disappointed me. I was ready. I
was ready for Phil class and kind of this earned me, right. I
SA the picture he took and he sent me a copy taking with an old
one ten snapshot camera. You know. Oh yes, the arm around hugging
me and thumbs up, you know there he wanted his picture taking. You
know. Wow, I think he was walking around with Mosley back then,
if I remember, I'm not so sure. I got to know him a
bit later before his passing, you know, but yeah, that was my
encounter with Phil class. Right, how about that? How about other debunkers,
So people trying to trying to put you know, their spin on it.
Um. Yeah, Usually what happens is, you know, they come
up with something just because they haven't looked at the whole aggregate of the data,
you know, where they're trying to put it into their favorite explanation or
whatever. Um, I mean the truth is, you know, it's like
the little siting we had last year. I mean, I don't know what
it was, but um, you know, all these years later, I
mean if somebody, you know, when people say, look it was a
super secret military device for example, which is a story that's been suggested a
few times. Whatever that was, it would have been short great to have
something that was both aerodynamic and hydrodynamic in the Vietnam War, wouldn't it.
Oh yeah, And there's been nothing released since, you know. And and
no, it's not the Agro aero car. I think could barely get across
the runway at two feet off the ground, you know. But you know,
people come up with explanations. You know, I've heard everything from will
of the Wisp to whatever. You know. But you know, you can
only kind of explain this when you start leaving things out, and of course
inevitably that that's what some of them do, you know what I mean,
they breeze over and try to go on into it, you know, But
I'm still waiting for the explanation, you know, all these years later,
you know, but I mean, when you start putting together what was seen
at thirty three three thousand feet, what was being seen on the ground,
you know, dozens of witnesses, including three RCMP officers. When you start
looking at it all and the effect it had an Ottawa and how this effected
UFO policy per decade in what way? Well, like I say, you
know, the it happened in sixty seven, and this was one of the
cases along with others that were mentioned such as you know Stefan Maholick's case and
in cam Rose, Alberta and others that suggested that the government that should be
giving to the National Research Council, which they did, which at first wasn't
a bad decision, but it evolved into one as you know, nobody wanted
to deal with it. You know, the stigma was too much. Key
people as they retired were never replaced, and eventually, by nineteen ninety nine
it had become almost like the American Bluebook thing before that was canceled in sixty
nine. It was just a filing cabinet for reports in the end. You
know, yeah, are there any other cases that have a similarity to this
one in any type of way that you can think of? I'm sure there
are, but none dramatically. So I mean when you look at you know,
crash scenarios in other places, they're they're quite different, you know.
Um. You know it's funny people like to call this Candada's row as well.
But you know when when you when you look at Roswell, I mean,
my first thing is where's the UFO. I mean, where's the UFO
sighting? There is not you know, where's there isn't? Right, you
know, Mac Brizzel come out the rancher and found this this material in the
field after a lightning storm. You know what I mean. It's interesting the
claims of others. I'm not saying there's nothing to the case. I mean
the very fact that the military put out that press release, you know,
bigs questions. I'm not saying it's nothing. You're trying to shoot it down.
Although when people have tried to compare it too strongly, like when I've
had a Fox News reporter at me. I can remember being in New York
one day and eventually I said, and I said, you're trying to get
me to say that my UFO crash is better than your weather balloon, but
I'm not going to do that. You look disappointed. And walked away.
I'm not saying that there's nothing to roswell, but you know, like the
Kennedy assassination, how do you get to the truth of that now all these
years later, you know, and everybody's pretty much gone to the undertaker,
you know, But I'm not sure what there was there in the first case.
It's a very different case, and all these cases are very different,
these crash scenarios, you know. Yeah, I think it's kind of unique.
You know, there's a thing, like I said, you know,
your witnesses didn't report a UFO. It was the authorities they called it.
I think how different that is exactly. And as far as the witnesses go,
do you have an idea how many there were total? Well, in
terms are you talking about just Shag Harbor? Yes, yeah, Because I
say there were a myriad of sightings at night in the Shag Harbor area,
I would estimate it's got to be well, it would have to be over
one hundred. And I'll tell you why. Typically in the days before the
Internet, it was pretty much attend to one ratio. When a lot of
the classic researchers would come up and agree with that figure. I mean,
you had to be pretty certain before you picked up the phone and reported this
the police, the military or RCC something like that in those days, the
Rescue Coordinations Center. So it was a great filter to help cut out a
lot of foolishness, you know, and low grade sightings. So the fact
that that night they received seven calls right away would imply their head to be
at least seventy. But when you look at things like the people that were
outside, fishermen out working, you know, at sea and all this,
you know, it would be if it wasn't a hundred, it would be
in the range of that, you know. I mean there was a crowd
by the moss plant at night, you know, while it was still moving
on the surface of the water. Wow. Yeah, amazing. And when
you said there was a myriad of sightings that night, can you explain explain
that? Yeah? Well, I mean the same night, for example,
I saw what many people saw here in Dart with Nova Scotia, you know,
in Halifax Harbor, people on the ferry, people driving across the McDonald
bridge and saw an orb of light hovering low over the water that was tracing
the shoreline of Dart with coves, and you know, many people reported this
in the newspaper. There were sightings by hearing sayers, the same ones that
the pilots would have seen from one sixty in the Bay of Funding. They
said it looked like it was two full moons dancing over them. There's sightings
from Mahome Bay, Lunenburg all over the province. You know that night,
and you know that's just the way it was. Many people actually referred to
it as a night the UFOs. There were just so many sightings. And
in fact, remember I told you about the RCMPX file that actually stems from
a sighting of the same nine sixteen miles off shore by a ship called the
MV Nickerson, which was a large factory freezer dragger ship and it had eighteen
men on board, and they reported UFO sightings and four UFOs on the water
with radar returns. This is two I shake harbor and the Lunenburg ARCMP detachment
told him to come in and file a report when they get ashore when they
were in from the fishing ground, and they did that on that Saturday,
and that was the source. Because the captain had gone near the operation was
warned off by the navy. The captain of the ship had been told that
the second UFO search and told to stay away from it when he sailed near
it. Eh, and that's why it's mentioned in the RCMP report, which
is kind of an independent thing that shows wh well maybe not everything else got
in the public file in terms of the showburn story. So you know,
yeah, and you know, as Justin's film showed, there are things that
have happened since. So let's talk about post Shag Harbor and are there sightings
a lot of sightings still, Yes, there are many low grade pictures that
come in from the southwestern area of Nova Scotia. The show sightings like what
we've seen this shape craft at rows of like just the typical thing people that
aren't prepared, they snap on with their phone or whatever. Ironically, you
know the spot where we stood on on the beach there on Cape Sable Island
a month before I was down filming a documentary that didn't work out so well
with the Cousteas. Oh yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, yeah,
okay, if my moss but yeah, anyway, somebody on that island.
There was a day that I wasn't on the film ship shoot. I
wasn't required and I was about to drive into Yarmces to pick up some some
things I'd forgotten to pack with me on the trip down there for the shoot
that week, and somebody called from the island and wanted to report a sighting
and claimed that they had had a close encounter on the beach, and they
took me to the spot. It was a rainy day that day, and
we went out there and they took me right to the spot where we you
know, a month before, where I eventually would have that daytime sighting with
the video buttage, you know. And when she described what came up to
run the beach, she was alone that day back a couple months before in
June. It was the very same spot, you know, and described the
very same thing. And I didn't tell anybody because she didn't want her name
used and just falled away and bat. She wanted device on somebody that might
not judge or schizophrenic, you know, that she could seek for counseling,
and I did that. I had never mentioned anybody, because when somebody asked
for that kind of anonymity, I honor it, you know. But that
had come up, and you know, the day on the beach, even
when I'm arriving and I find a link up with Lori and Heather and Justin
on the beach. None of them were new of that. I told nobody.
And when I'm standing in the site when this thing was coming closer and
I get that that shot that's got no zoom where you know, it has
some size to it on the still I don't know if you found that in
the balls I sent yeah because everything, yeah, that just snapped was my
phone, right and you can see the like I say, the pattern inside
it. But when I looked at that just you know, under eight X.
When I looked at it and you can see inside, oh my god,
there was some strange details going. And just picture when that disappeared and
when it first reappeared, and it started as a black dot and then grew
and then reversed image like you know, weather blip can't do that. And
the people that were staying around there was a little crowd with us, they
were watching it. When it did that, they went, oh, and
I remember we're looking and they all said, did you see that? Yeah,
And that little sequence only glassed like a second and a half. That
was on the final reappearance of it. Ye duration the last bit. Like
I said, I was only there for the last seven minutes of this,
but it was obviously when I look at the video foot each although that's intriguing,
this was the better part of the sighting. But at this point,
we'll put this way. You can picture this. It's kind of comic.
But we're standing right at the water's edge of looking up and we don't notice
as one little rope wave coming. We all got wet feet. You know,
it was comic. It was just such a thing. And when this
whole thing was over and we're just standing there comparing notes and I'm taking I
went right home and wrote this up so that I had some hard detail,
like I kept checking the time and the wind direction, and the next day,
you know, gathered what I could and send it on to move on
everybody. The reactions were different, you know, I couldn't. You know,
you heard justin he was very excited, frying it frustrated. But somehow,
please Heather do set you know who takes lots of pictures and claims to
see things like this in this area. She was through all this laughing hysterically
and correctly. And I said why, And be honest, I was actually
concerned. At one point. It was like you know when somebody gets so
euphoric, you know, they I thought you might pass out, you know,
And I said, hey, what's what's up? Funny? But is
it? And she said, I see these things all the time, she
says, but I never see them in the daytime with a group of people
around. She goes, I needed this, you know. And Lorie,
who by the way, up until about five or six, until shortainly before
you met him, actually you know when people ask him that he think he's
seen the UFO, he always held the opinion that sixty seven it might have
been a US military thing. And over the years, after having met the
pilots and all the other people and what they saw, it was only back
in that period of time that he started thinking, now it couldn't have been
that. It had to be an unknown, you know. But that day
when he saw this with me, he looked at this and he kept saying,
that's UFO. That ain't no weather ballooon, that ain't no But like
I say, I'll be honest. Many people looked up on the beach.
Some people were frank saying, what is that? You know, and they
were getting oed here and going into the car, and other people looked up
and struggled to go that what's that? It's nothing, and they turn away.
But if you kept watching, you've seen things like the disappearances and the
reappearances, and the change of direction and flight path, and you know these
unusual internal features when it got close. Right, Like I said, I
saw only the last seven minutes, but it was probably the best seven minutes
of the sighting. Yeah, yeah, that's really something. What do you
think is the future of this story? Are you just going to keep plugging
along like you are and see if you can actually find an answer? Do
you think there is an answer to be found? I do. I think
there are answers to be found. I mean picture my overall philosophy here where
I think the unknowns had multiple causes, right, And I hold the blended
view of the phenomena in the sense that yeah, eth is still on the
table the extraterrestrial hypothesis. But I believe in kind of the valley outlook too
about reality transformation and other factors. And I think some of the minority opinions
that we've abandoned in this field, Like I said, the idea of there
being you know, some kind of living organism that's here that may not be
extraterrestrial but appears under certain conditions as a possibility too. Look in the short
term, and this is going to this part, and I'm going to answer
your question a bit more detailed here quickly. The first part is in the
short term, this compress we're going to have a twenty twenty one is going
to be just a little bit more than that. Yes, you're going to
have the people stand up at the podium and talk about this, right.
Well, one of the things we're going to do this a little different.
Anybody wants to find out that degory details shag Harbor ufoxbo dot com online.
Here's here's the difference. We're going to take you there. You're going to
meet the actual eye witness, people like Lorie and others. The guy with
the dip net I told you about, he'll be there. The experts supposed
be people like me and these other well known American speakers that I talked about
my respect, you know, Nick Pope, Robs White, well maybe not
American Debbie Ziegeldmeyer, Ryans whatever. They're all going to be there. But
on the Sunday We're gonna put everybody on a bus that a tans advising and
it gets a ticket, and we're going to the actual sites. I'm going
to tell that on right there. So you're going to meet the people,
you're gonna meet the experts, the actual witness. We're gonna literally take you
there where it all happened to all these different locations, Cape Sable, Shag
Harbor and the Bass. Wow, that's awesome. I know what I wanted
to say, Yes, and you're not gonna like it, and that is
the Cousteau family. So how did that? How did that end up not
being so well? The Custos were great people. Let me start by that
before I okay, just to let you know, we got about three and
a half minutes. Okay. The problem is, you know a lot of
these shows have a limited budget and they don't take local advice, so they
hire a diving tender. Isn't a great boat, you know? For example,
we had an anchor that was a bucket with three hundred pounds of cement
in it and it wouldn't hold station in a light wind for the boat.
And the places I really wanted to go are the places we couldn't get near
because it wasn't safe according to the dive master. So very disappointing. You
know those kinds of things, and that often happens on these things that this
one was a little disappointing to boat. The Cousteaus were great, Some of
the people affiliated with the show were great and very helpful, and some of
them were you know, it reminds me of that clip they used to have
a much music when they show David Byrne from Talking Head where he stares into
the camera and says, you're watching television. When it was all done,
I looked at them, I said, you know what we did. We
were making television. Yeah, we weren't doing any science right the future to
me, I'm hoping in a year or two that if I can work a
little less, I'd like to raise some money and go down and do an
extended sky search in that whole area with all the best equipment and help and
volunteer groups that I can muster from Cape Sable to Shag Harbor and just hope
we get a little lucky. It might be like storm chasing, but with
a little bit of lucky can come up with some good stuff. Are we
going to get the answer to like the universe and everything, No, Martin,
But what I hope to get is enough solid events to say there is
a phenomena, there are unknowns, and we're going for it. Yeah,
excellent, all right, And can you give out your website one more time?
Oh, the website for the for the s Yeah, shag Harbor ufo
xpo dot com. Spelt as it sounds a Canadian spelling for shag harbor all
one word lowercase. But oh you are harbor up. That's right, shag
Harbor ufo xpo dot com. We'll give you all the great details and how
to buy in and be there for this. Hopefully this COVID nineteens under control,
then I would have loved it on this this year. Hopefully we can
get everybody there, including the pilot, so there could be a lot of
great people beyond just the guest list of speakers. Listen to it. It's
always fun. I love it down the shore when I go there, it's
always in event. Excellent. Well, I look forward to uh to seeing
you again, definitely. But I'll tell you one thing I'm not going to
do, and that's I'm never ever ever going to drive there again. I
drove. I drove there from Maine up through I believe that it took sixteen
hours to get there. I go to the Toronto a couple of years ago.
I know, I used I used to laugh at that stuff. It
was hired on me this time. Yeah, all right, your youth isn't
protecting us anymore. That's right, all right, Chris, you take care
of Thanks again. I hope we meet again sometime. Yes, all right,
it's wonderful. Thanks a lot, all right, Okay, everyone,
thanks so much for listening, and we'll be back next week with Matthew Christal.
He has a book on dark skies and we might get a bright sable
and as well, so check us out next week. It should be a
good one. And I think that's going to do it for us. I
want to thank everyone again for listening, and I want to thank all the
supporters, and we'll see you next week. Stay safe and remember to keep
your eyes to the sky.