1 00:00:01,439 --> 00:00:04,919 Good afternoon, and welcome to the crime pace. But buying me, it 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,080 doesn't podcast. How are you doing out there? Are you hanging in there? 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,439 Are you okay? If you're in Texas? Are you braving the heat 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,359 wave? All right? God damn, it's fucking I don't know. It's 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,600 unbelievably hot, and it's making me feel kind of nuts because I'm trapped inside. 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,719 It's just too hot to go outside. I've been having to water every 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,160 day, I've been having to I don't know, man, it's just brutal. 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,600 You know. The dogs don't want to they don't want to go for 9 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:32,520 walks no more. You know, everyone's just losing the will to live. 10 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:36,000 Would you rather live in a place where it freezes for five months or where 11 00:00:36,039 --> 00:00:39,759 it's so hot for five months that it makes it really hard to grow things 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,679 and everything just kind of melts? You know? Do you like the way 13 00:00:42,679 --> 00:00:48,600 that ultra violet light the grades plastic and metal and wood when it's one hundred 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:53,200 and five degrees constantly? People who selling Arizona are like, shut up. 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,000 It gets hot here South Texas. The house places where ever lived, you 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,079 know, and it's humid too, or it can be, but it hasn't 17 00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:04,359 been this hot for this amount of time, this extended amount of time in 18 00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:07,640 June. Anyway, today I got Nick Zentner on the podcast. For those 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,959 that don't know, Zick, not Nick pe Zick Nentner. Nick Zentner is 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,519 a geology professor at Central Washington University. He's got a YouTube channel. He 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,280 does a lot of great videos. He's got a lot of cool lectures, 22 00:01:22,439 --> 00:01:26,640 really cool humble dude. And we have a ninety minute conversation about all things 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:32,200 geology, and it kind of turned into a two way interview in some ways. 24 00:01:32,239 --> 00:01:34,280 You know, it was just a fun conversation, which is the way 25 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,719 I like to do things. I definitely wanted to put a lot of subject 26 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:38,680 matter in there so that people could get something out of it. It becomes, 27 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:44,280 you know, somewhat semi educational. But you know, he was asking 28 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,680 me questions as well, and you know, it was just kind of shooting 29 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,799 the ship, just kind of I guess we were kind of getting to know 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,159 each other as well over the over the course of the ninety minutes. But 31 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,719 we talk about a lot of good things. We talk about, you know, 32 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,920 what got us both into the phenomenon of doing what we do and how 33 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,959 good it feels to share things you know with other people and for me, 34 00:02:07,039 --> 00:02:13,520 how good it feels to learn new things too, which is what I'm always 35 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,240 doing. So that's the that's the point of a traveling and seeing new shit 36 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:23,080 and uh exploring, you know. So Uh anyway, Um, I'll cut 37 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:28,319 right to the chase. But if you haven't checked out Nick's YouTube videos, 38 00:02:28,439 --> 00:02:31,800 I recommend doing so. Nick Zentner, just look him up on YouTube. 39 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:38,800 He's also got a podcast, and uh, we talk about uh, you 40 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:45,719 know, basically he talks about, you know, this theory of of challenging 41 00:02:45,759 --> 00:02:52,439 the this theory that challenges the conventional ideology about how the Rocky Mountains were formed 42 00:02:52,479 --> 00:02:57,800 and what was going on tectonically with North America over the last two hundred million 43 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,599 years, and um, we talk about a lot of things that people. 44 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:05,400 I mean, there's a lot of shit in terms of how certain landmask is 45 00:03:05,479 --> 00:03:08,400 form in North America that we just don't know. That geologists just don't know 46 00:03:08,479 --> 00:03:15,319 yet. There's theories out there, there's dominant theories, but nothing is certain. 47 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:19,680 And sometimes I mean I've noticed this too when I read about because I'm 48 00:03:19,719 --> 00:03:22,680 always asking questions, how the fun did these mountains form, you know, 49 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,240 what was going on at this point in time fifty million years ago, a 50 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,560 hundred million years ago. And in reading about this stuff, I mean, 51 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:36,680 I'll be reading research papers, I'll be asking geologists I know, and a 52 00:03:36,719 --> 00:03:39,919 lot of people just don't know. They really don't. It's like there's theories 53 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,520 out there, but in terms of we know certainly, like that where's the 54 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:51,159 smoking gun? Like where's the where's where's the gravity? Readings that show the 55 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,879 crater using an analogy here in the Yucatan where you know, the comment that 56 00:03:54,919 --> 00:04:01,039 caused the KT extinction? Where where is where's that? You know? For 57 00:04:01,479 --> 00:04:06,400 where's the where's the you know, the analogy, where's the smoking gun? 58 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:11,879 That kind of smoking gun? For other land forms across North America that show, 59 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,800 you know a lot more conclusively how they formed, And that just doesn't 60 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:23,040 exist as uh as you slowly find out for a lot of land masses. 61 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,000 So but there's theories and there's a lot of fun stuff to think about, 62 00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:30,959 and it's all about just slowly piecing together the way that you think of the 63 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:35,319 land that you live on and and the mountains you hike in and the deserts 64 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:42,279 you enjoy being in. And you know, etcetera. The other the other 65 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,399 land masses that you enjoy spending your time, and the road cuts you drive 66 00:04:46,439 --> 00:04:50,759 by, the lakes you swim in, et cetera. So, uh yeah, 67 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:56,560 it's it was a good conversation and I certainly learned some new things about 68 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,600 it too. I did not know. Well, you'll you'll hear the conversation. 69 00:04:59,639 --> 00:05:02,879 But I think this theory about Rocky Mountain uplift is pretty cool, and 70 00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:05,160 we talk about that too. But we also talk about a whole bunch of 71 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,279 shit. So if you're not interested in Rocky Mountain uplift, you'll find something 72 00:05:09,319 --> 00:05:14,959 else interesting. I'm going to Brazil in a week. I'm a little not 73 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,000 stressed out. I'm just packing. I don't like traveling as much. And 74 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:23,040 you know, without a break in between and and then I guess kill you. 75 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:25,800 We might be doing another season to kill your lan. What else do 76 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,639 I got going on. I'm gonna be doing a presentation in New York at 77 00:05:29,639 --> 00:05:31,720 the Cactus Store again in late September. I'll probably going to Ithaca too, 78 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,600 surprised they're gonna have me. No, no, Cornell, I'm doing a 79 00:05:36,079 --> 00:05:41,120 talk at Cornell. They're having my low browed slob ass do a talk in 80 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,959 Cornell, which is in Ithaca, right am I fucking this? I don't 81 00:05:45,959 --> 00:05:47,160 even know what I'm talking about anymore. Man, I got too much stuff 82 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,319 I might play. I'm trying to get these illustrations done for a fucking children's 83 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:56,000 book. It's driving me nuts breaking out the brush doing brush and ink illustrations, 84 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,480 not just the pen anymore. It's been kind of a pain in the 85 00:05:58,519 --> 00:06:02,240 ass. But either way, I'll be in New York in September and probably 86 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:09,199 Chicago in August and part of September, and then I think I'm going to 87 00:06:10,399 --> 00:06:14,759 Lake Wales Ridge in Florida in October. So either way, Uh, my 88 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,759 schedule is gonna be a little pack for the next two months. But if 89 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,160 you're in those places, I want to say hi, shoot me an email. 90 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,560 Uh try to keep it short if you can, because I won't be 91 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,639 able to respond in depth at all. And yeah, I hope you're hope 92 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,360 you're enjoying our New Zealand videos anyway, that's all I got. Enjoy this 93 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:34,959 conversation with Nick Zetner, and uh, go fuck yourself by well, I'm 94 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:42,279 gonna showing you what it's like or I'm not gonna shure youttec, you know, 95 00:06:42,319 --> 00:06:46,480 I mean, I'll think they're shock. They've got a nice shop, 96 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:49,079 liberal parts. So then you start to pack and shutter and quash come out. 97 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,040 You know, I've seen a couple of night things. Donail the fourth. 98 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,439 You're a bunch of hippies twelve each other. You can come with cholgetting 99 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:09,079 to hit left down. They're okay, Nick, are you there? I'm 100 00:07:09,079 --> 00:07:11,759 here, Joey, thank you man. This is great. Yeah, man, 101 00:07:11,839 --> 00:07:14,439 I got you know, I got a giant jug of green tea and 102 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,879 non alcoholic beer in a bottle to piss in, so I don't have to 103 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,240 leave the podcast. So uh so let's go. So I just I want 104 00:07:21,279 --> 00:07:25,560 to just start off. I've been watching your videos for a while. I 105 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,000 mean, any video where a dude is talking to me about geology and you 106 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,040 know there's like a beautiful, you know, scape of mountains behind them, 107 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,519 uh is gonna woo me in. So this is like, and where you're 108 00:07:40,519 --> 00:07:46,399 based out of You're based out of Washington and Pacific Northwest. Geology is fascinating. 109 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:48,040 I mean, we got volcanism, we got Missoula floods, we got 110 00:07:48,079 --> 00:07:51,959 a cool fossil flora up there on chucking Nut Drive and the what is it 111 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:59,439 the racehorse formation up there, and where's that Bellinghammerson got it? I think 112 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,480 I think somebody chipped me off because your video's long go and you were up 113 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,120 here in the early days. Weren't you making a couple of like plant fossil 114 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,160 videos up here in Washington? Yeah, twenty eighteen, Yeah, and someone 115 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:15,439 I was up there looking at the escne fossil floora like fifty million year old 116 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:18,720 glip, the strobus and tex odium and ferns and all kinds of cool shit. 117 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,480 And then I went to a spot near what was it, I think 118 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,879 it was near Spokane or Nachi was we're near with Natchie, And then there 119 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,800 was like maya scene like twenty million year old, fifty million year old you 120 00:08:30,839 --> 00:08:35,679 know, in volcanic sediments like an ash beautiful fossil flora. Man, it 121 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,519 was blew my mind. But uh, well it's been it's been five years. 122 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,600 You're welcome back anytime. There's all sorts of cool stuff. You're a 123 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,360 foreshore Yeah, no, I got I gotta get back there at some point. 124 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,840 I just I took a break from the West Coast because I had spent 125 00:08:48,879 --> 00:08:52,000 so much time there, and I needed to see what was out in southeast 126 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,759 in Texas. Texas is weird, Texas is cool. Geology, lots of 127 00:08:56,799 --> 00:09:01,360 limestone, the culture here's a little rough. I think it's just the Southeast. 128 00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:03,080 I bitch about it all the time. It's just the car, Like 129 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,679 there's just this addiction with the car, like America has too much land and 130 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,879 it doesn't know how to use it responsibly. And we've just said it, 131 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:13,480 We've just everything is just driving like it's it's so bad for people's health. 132 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:18,759 You know, well it is. And I have been listening to your podcast 133 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,320 and I'm up on the latest, and so yeah, I mean you kind 134 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,600 of you kind of self talk. I mean, you head down those roads 135 00:09:26,639 --> 00:09:30,000 and you want to kind of stay someplace else. But it does seem like 136 00:09:30,039 --> 00:09:35,279 you're you're heading to that end of day's type vibe with some of these places 137 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,600 you've been experiencing. And you know, the beauty of geology is I can 138 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,519 do back millions of years in time and kind of be totally removed from the 139 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:45,559 whole fac totally. That's that, and that's anitie. What got me into 140 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,679 what I found so alluring about geology in the first place. When I first 141 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,600 got into it almost twenty years ago, was you know, here was a 142 00:09:52,639 --> 00:09:56,799 way to zoom out and realize the bigger picture. And I think, you 143 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,279 know, it's really uh, that's kind of freeing for a lot of people 144 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,960 too, because especially people get caught up in the I mean, I just 145 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,000 like to complain. I worked for the railroad for fifteen years. That's what 146 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,440 we do. We complain about any you know, anything Like if there's not 147 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,320 something to complain about, we find it. And that's that's fine. I 148 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,600 just you know, as long as someone takes themselves with a grain of salt, 149 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:16,919 I think it's fine. And also, you know, get stalked on 150 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,720 some beautiful things. But when I first got into geology, that was what, 151 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,120 you know, it was like, Wow, there's this bigger thing, 152 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,279 and you know, people can get get kind of land locked in this myopia 153 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,679 of just oh, the human world everything sucks. It's like, there's a 154 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,399 lot of really cool stuff, and there's this really cool story out there that's 155 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,799 billions of years old, that's been you know it only I mean, to 156 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,519 be honest, it sounds like I really only got exciting the last billion years 157 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,399 or so. But maybe you could chose my mind on that. You know, 158 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,679 what was going on in those in those those oceans two billion years ago, 159 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,720 you know, just a bunch of cyanobacterias slowly making oxygen or what. 160 00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:54,919 I have no idea. I mean, Precambrian has always bored me to tears, 161 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:58,159 and I you know, I grew up in Wisconsin and was taught some 162 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,440 of that stuff early on, and I'm like, I think I'm more interested 163 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,840 in kind of some more dynamic stuff out here in the Pacific Northwest. So 164 00:11:03,879 --> 00:11:07,200 in part that's why I'm here. But yeah, we can talk geology. 165 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:11,399 But you know, I'm curious about you, Joey, and I don't know 166 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,120 how much your viewers and listeners know all the gory details about you. But 167 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,720 yeah, I mean you mentioned you wanted to talk to geology and maybe why 168 00:11:18,759 --> 00:11:22,960 I got into making videos and other things for the public. But I have 169 00:11:22,039 --> 00:11:26,200 the same curiosity about you too, So oh god, oh you don't want 170 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,000 to hear about me? I do. I do the self taught part, 171 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,759 Like, I have very strong opinions about universities and how they operate and how 172 00:11:35,799 --> 00:11:41,159 they don't really serve the ideals that maybe existed a hundred years ago. Were 173 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:46,039 you're truly self taught with not only the botany but the geology, Like you're 174 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,320 literally checking out books out of a public library. Oh yeah, yeah, 175 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,600 I mean I've got I read textbooks, man, That's what got me. 176 00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:56,720 I mean the geology I started, well, I had two classes. One 177 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,960 they were one was an oceanogriy class, one of geology class. They were 178 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,000 both kind of the same thing. The geology class was taught by this sweet 179 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:07,600 woman, sweet woman, but she seemed like she was on Quelus ninety nine 180 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:11,360 percent of the time. She was just you know, she just you could 181 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,039 tell she didn't want to be there. This passionate had a ton of knowledge, 182 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,879 monotone. She was like, you know, like that Ben Stein character 183 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:22,519 from that fucking eighties six kind of one of years. It was like that. 184 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,840 And then I had this The other lady was this butch lesbian who was 185 00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:30,360 just fucking she was awesome. She was so just fuck, I don't give 186 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:31,000 a shit. I do you think I'm a betching. I want you to 187 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,679 learn the stuff. And I was just, you know, I was like, 188 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,679 oh my god, you're my hero, You're You're amazing. And she 189 00:12:35,879 --> 00:12:39,960 just taught with such passion, and she loved it. And she was teaching 190 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,279 oceanography, which you know, I wasn't really clear as to what it was. 191 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,159 I didn't realize it was the study of the oceans. I kind of 192 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,480 had it confused with some sort of like study of marine biology, but it 193 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,120 was really it was essentially the same as a geology. Of course. We 194 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:58,679 talked gard ocean, a cross coindental crust, three different rock types, tectonic 195 00:12:58,759 --> 00:13:05,279 plates, um. You know, the idea that I think everyone should have 196 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:09,879 a tectonic map in their classroom, you know, like any earth science because 197 00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:15,080 that's really fuck the geopolitical boundaries. The tectonic map is really what shows you 198 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,960 what's going on in the world, you know, and and why mountains exist 199 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,960 and and and then it gets into the biological aspect of biogeography and why there's 200 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,639 these disjunctions of you know, the same family, same genus, uh, 201 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,159 you know, for example, all the Gondwanan stuff, these these families that 202 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,679 there's a there's you know, members in Chile and then there's members in a 203 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,679 you know, Australia and New Zealand and nowhere else. And why is that, 204 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,360 you know, because because of tectonics because everything used to be connected, 205 00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:46,399 you know, And so that was you know that teacher, really, God, 206 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,159 I wish I should. She's someone I would love to like send a 207 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,440 fucking Christmas cards some because she was just so she had such an impact on 208 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:56,440 me. And I was only, you know, that was I wasn't even 209 00:13:56,519 --> 00:13:58,159 going to school then, because I was like, I want to degree. 210 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,120 I kind of knew it was a joke. And I was like, I 211 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,360 got friends who have degrees who are making shit money and working in coffee shops 212 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,279 and miserable and kind of regretting that they got a degree, because I mean, 213 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:11,039 you know, so many things in America have just been turned into a 214 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:16,799 business, you know, privatization, there's the it's like the point of what 215 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,759 they're offering is not the point of why they do it anymore. It's the 216 00:14:18,799 --> 00:14:22,200 point of where they do it is just to make money, you know, 217 00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:26,240 whatever essential service. And so I love the idea of college. I love 218 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:28,320 the idea of university. I love the idea of schooling. But it's just 219 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:33,600 too tied to class and it's too tied to business in this country. And 220 00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:37,159 that's what's a bummer. If it was you know, free open access to 221 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,919 all or like subsidized. I'd be all for it. But I think part 222 00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:45,840 of the reason I tend to shit on higher education so much is one because 223 00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:48,759 of the yeah, the kind of classist and elitist nature that it takes some 224 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,360 times. And I get that people spend all this money going to school and 225 00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:56,639 they want validation, but uh, you know, and there's a lot of 226 00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:00,480 ego tied. But also it's just the business as fact. I mean, 227 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,559 it's just it's been made to be such a struggle to afford it for so 228 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,360 many people that it's kind of like it's kind of seems like kind of a 229 00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:11,519 scam. I'm not gonna you know, It's like it's like signing up for 230 00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:13,399 a high interest credit card in many ways, like now, I'll just wait 231 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,559 till if I don't have the money, i won't get it. You know, 232 00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:18,039 I won't buy that thing. I'm not going to pay twenty percent interest 233 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,519 for it. That kind of thing. So, yeah, well you're onto 234 00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:26,159 some stuff here. What you're speaking about is real. And you know, 235 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,759 I've been teaching for thirty five years at a university, and I have seen 236 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,279 some trends that are not particularly great. And we can go there if you 237 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:35,759 want, but do me a favor, Do me a favor and find that 238 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,399 woman if you can. I mean, when people do take the time, 239 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,080 you know, years later, decades later, and say, hey, I 240 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,000 just want to let you know that you really left an impression on you. 241 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,639 It's corny, but it really does feel good. So oh, yeah, 242 00:15:48,759 --> 00:15:52,480 you can find her, do that please? Yeah for sure, man, 243 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:56,039 Yeah, I know I really need to. So anyway, that was I 244 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,159 just went to college for two semesters at its City College of San Francisco, 245 00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:03,840 then dropped out to work for the railroad, but then continued I was just 246 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:07,320 so fascinated by this stuff, continued to read about it, and then I 247 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,360 got into botany when I was working for the railroad, and and I just 248 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:11,759 went down a wormhole. I mean, I think it's the same way. 249 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,320 A lot of people find this stuff so fascinating and want to know more, 250 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:21,799 and and some people just can't sit very well with the idea of not knowing, 251 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,679 and so you know, and then you know, that becomes a nice 252 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,720 distraction from all the other stuff you know in life. So anyway, but 253 00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:33,399 you know, you're you're a big part of that. And I think you 254 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:37,480 know this I'm guessing you know this. It's it's you're a genuine guy. 255 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,919 You're you're you're coming directly through that computer screen or however anybody is consuming what 256 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,519 you're doing. You're consistent and you're genuine, and that's what people need, 257 00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:51,440 that that the information is there if you hunt for it on your own. 258 00:16:51,559 --> 00:16:56,360 But you're you're a real person. You've taught it, You're you've taught it 259 00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:00,519 to yourself, and you're communicating it in your own unique way. And there 260 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,799 needs to get a lot more of that, not just in universities, but 261 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,839 just in general. And so I'm really impressed by the tone and how you 262 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,400 do things, and I hope you keep going with that. No, well 263 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,079 thanks a lot, man. Yeah, that that means a lot, especially 264 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,680 coming from you. I just I think, you know, my goal at 265 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,880 this point just to share the stuff with other people so that you know, 266 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:26,160 just just I think just the average schmuck gets could get a lot out of 267 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,279 knowing this stuff and viewing the world through this way. And I think that 268 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,160 traditionally, you know, many human societies and you know, we're more in 269 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,640 tune with the land that they live on. Whether it was knowing the geology 270 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,160 or the plants or whatever, and that offers a sense of fulfillment that we 271 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,759 can't get in today's consumer society, where every place in the country is starting 272 00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:52,039 to look the same, and people people everywhere it seemed equally miserable and depressed. 273 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,319 So you know, it's a it's a nice Yeah. It feels good 274 00:17:56,319 --> 00:17:59,279 to have a connection to landscapes and to have that kind of perspective. So, 275 00:17:59,319 --> 00:18:02,359 you know, geology did for me when I first learned about things like 276 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,720 the geologic time scale and plate tectonics. What it did for me what religion 277 00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:11,319 probably does for some other people. You know, gives you a sense of 278 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,960 like, I understand my place. You know, so well, you're you're 279 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,079 breaking up just a little bit. I hope that's not in the recording, 280 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,680 but it's just let's keep going. Maybe it'll settle down. No, it'll 281 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,640 be in the recording. Yeah, that where if we if we have technical 282 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:27,920 difficulties, I could just cut it out and edit it. But um, 283 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,519 you know, where I live, the service isn't so good, so let 284 00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:33,839 me know. Um good. Well, I want to ask you. I 285 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:37,440 want to start asking you. I guess how did you start making making these 286 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:44,039 videos? What inspired you to do that. Well, um, there's a 287 00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:47,319 long answer and a short answer. I guess the short answers. Um. 288 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,960 I started teaching geology in nineteen eighty seven. That's a long time ago now, 289 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,400 and I was just focused on teaching geology one on one and geology two 290 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:02,000 ten and doing the traditional stuff. And I continue with that, you know, 291 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,200 thirty years later, I'm still doing that pretty much every day, and 292 00:19:04,279 --> 00:19:10,319 I do enjoy it. But when my kids, three boys, and once 293 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,519 they became teenagers and didn't want to spend as much time with me, which 294 00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:18,119 is thoroughly appropriate, and I had a little extra time, I knew that 295 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,559 there was an audience. I'm here in Ellensburg, Washington, and there's all 296 00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:26,759 these amazing places that everybody's curious about, and so, you know, I 297 00:19:26,839 --> 00:19:32,599 knew there was a real intense interest in specific places, whether it's Mount Rainier 298 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:38,200 or Grand Cooley or earthquakes or whatever, it's here, and so people were 299 00:19:38,279 --> 00:19:41,279 calling my office. This is back in the day when you would call somebody's 300 00:19:41,319 --> 00:19:45,200 office or you physically knock on their office door, and just folks from all 301 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,880 walks of life that wanted to know things. So, yeah, when I 302 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:55,279 had a little extra time, I started making TV programs just at the university 303 00:19:55,319 --> 00:20:00,400 here, just like Waynes World, basically local cable TV to people in the 304 00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:04,160 area. And one thing led to another where I started doing public lectures and 305 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,480 the nets fun into public field trips, and I was really interested in making 306 00:20:08,519 --> 00:20:12,119 it all free for anybody who wanted to come, and it kind of grew 307 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,960 and grew, and so that eventually got me to YouTube and podcasts and everything 308 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,359 else. So it was just an incremental growth, but it was just an 309 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:30,680 intensely satisfying thing to take all this complicated academic bullshit and find some narratives that 310 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,480 work for different kinds of people. And they just kept coming back and word 311 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,799 of mouth and all that. So it's been really fun and I continue to 312 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:44,920 really enjoy just trying to communicate this stuff in my own way, similar to 313 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,480 the way that you're communicating stuff in your own way. So, but I 314 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,559 mean, you're obviously really passionate about it, because a lot of people who 315 00:20:51,559 --> 00:20:55,640 teach geology, I mean a lot of teachers in general are not very passionate. 316 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,599 You know, they just know a lot that they're not inspired by it. 317 00:20:57,599 --> 00:21:02,279 It's not what they go to sleep think and about. You obviously are 318 00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:04,160 passionate about it, and it obviously feels good for you to share that with 319 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:10,440 other people, which is something I experienced too with plants. So and I 320 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,160 think what you said to about you know people, you know, people, 321 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,440 especially in an area we've got public land, which where I live right now, 322 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,400 just here temporarily, there's not a lot of public land in South Texas, 323 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,640 Texas in general. Man, but people get curious about these you know. 324 00:21:25,759 --> 00:21:29,519 That curiosity is what I see that curiosity in people, and I'm like, 325 00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:32,359 ooh, let me get at that, you know, let me let 326 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,119 me there's my end, you know, because I'm like, this is this 327 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,319 is you could this is that's the spark that could like, you know, 328 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,079 a passion for someone about a certain subject. And so I think especially with 329 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,440 geology. You know, we got public land. You're out hiking around, 330 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,759 You're looking at road cuts, You're looking at these weird rock formations. You're 331 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:49,680 looking at squiggly lines and cliff sides, and you're like, man, how 332 00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:53,799 how did that? How can rocks bend? Like? How are rocks pliable? 333 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,240 You know? Why? Oh that's chirt? What is it's formed from? 334 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,400 You know? The microscopic bodies of these single celled organisms that make essentially 335 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,279 houses out of silica. How does that work? Like what I don't even 336 00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:11,119 know about those? Oh they're still around, not that particular species, but 337 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,759 they're still around. Oh, micro fossils, what's that fossil pollen? Like? 338 00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:18,359 Oh, this stuff? And then it kind of like blows people's minds, 339 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,519 you know. But but initially start seeing that road cut or that I 340 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:26,319 always love that John mcfeque quote. You know, road cuts are church to 341 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,680 geologists. It's so true, it's so true. But but you know, 342 00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:36,000 so I guess that's is that where you see a lot of people coming to 343 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:37,480 you, they're just kind of like, I want to know. I'm hike 344 00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:40,960 in or I'm driving and seeing this stuff, and I want to know how 345 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,240 it formed. Well, I've evolved in my thinking just in general. It's 346 00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:49,920 not even geology. I just assumed once upon a time that everybody was curious. 347 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,039 I just assumed every every person walking down the street was just a naturally 348 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,240 curious person. As I get older, especially, I realized it's a pretty 349 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,000 small group of people. I think as kids. As kids, they are, 350 00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:04,839 but as they get older and more defeated, they're not. They stop 351 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,279 being curious about the world. And that's a tragic moment when you're not curious 352 00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:11,440 about the world anymore. Like I'll tell people stuff sometimes and they're like, 353 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,240 uh, and I'm like, I don't you see how cool it is? 354 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:18,680 Fuck like look at this, and they're yeah, yes, oh God, 355 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,400 so you're you're you're tapping into that, and so yes, when I when 356 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,319 I do have people kind of burning calories to come find me or email me 357 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,839 or whatever, like, Okay, there's curiosity there, and I am going 358 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,759 to feed off of that. But then the next step for me is is 359 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:41,960 not just giving them sex, but somehow showing them a way that you can 360 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,759 tell a story about these places. To me, I have found this this 361 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:51,319 way to communicate geology, which is just storytelling. I'm taking an road cut, 362 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:56,079 I'm taking these other places, but I'm I'm weaving these narrative threads. 363 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,400 That's just my style. And so instead of coming up with a bunch of 364 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,680 jargon for them or you know, giving them little factoids they can share with 365 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,279 their neighbors, I mean, I'm kind of bored with that approach. I 366 00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:11,440 don't want to learn stuff just to learn it. I want to I want 367 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,599 to dig deeper and see how things are connected. I guess, yeah, 368 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:21,880 the context. Yeah, so even even in the geology research community, I 369 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,759 just see all these individual little postage stamps of knowledge and their their project, 370 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,759 their research project is, you know, maybe thirty five years of research in 371 00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:34,000 this one little area and it's a it's a deep well of knowledge. But 372 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,960 come on, man, look next door, look at the next county over. 373 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,359 Isn't that the same shit? How come you're not talking about that? 374 00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:45,680 Can't can't we can't? We kind of broaden things out, So I like 375 00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:49,839 connecting dots as opposed to just spending all my time at one dot. And 376 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,359 it seems like in the research world that's the case. And my last thought 377 00:24:53,400 --> 00:25:00,319 there is that I've been at some Penrose conferences recently where the leading research in 378 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,000 a particular field they're all in the same rule and half of those folks aren't 379 00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:10,440 curious. They're just reporting their details and job, their job is done. 380 00:25:10,599 --> 00:25:15,519 And I'm just sitting there like depressed, because like there could be so much 381 00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:21,559 more instead of this little m biotic way to report their findings. And that's 382 00:25:21,599 --> 00:25:23,160 the end of it. Yeah, sad man, It kind of makes you 383 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,960 want to slip a couple of tabs of acid into the you know, the 384 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,480 the coffee pot that they got over there at the at the table. But 385 00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:33,920 anyway, so what do you So let's talk about because I want this to 386 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,599 be I want to ask you personal stuff. I want to not personal, 387 00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:38,759 but like personal about your personal life. But I also want to I also 388 00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:44,799 want to talk about, um, you know what in terms of getting people 389 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,839 into this, like good elementary, like someone who's got no concept of geology. 390 00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:51,240 People will write me and they'll say what should I do? And I'm 391 00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:56,759 like, man, just download you know, a PDF of Essentials of Geology 392 00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:00,680 textbook on lib gen, or just buy the text book if you can. 393 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:03,160 And you know, but no one that sounds Buying textbooks doesn't sound fun to 394 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,039 people. They're overpriced, and you know, even reading one on like a 395 00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:10,519 PDF on a tablet, which is a freeway to do it because a lot 396 00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:12,000 of the stuff is on libgen now, which is like a you know, 397 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:15,960 way to pirate books, doesn't sound funny. They want that context. And 398 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,319 so that's what's really I tell people other things too, them, like get 399 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,720 download the app rocked roc KD. It's an overlay, it's a geologic map. 400 00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:29,880 Overlay of the entire world. Essentially, some countries have more data than 401 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,119 others, but you know, and then that'll tell you and learn the three 402 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,279 rock types, learn about plate tectonics, you know, oceanic crust versus condental 403 00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:42,000 crust, subduction zones there how they create vulcanism, that kind of thing. 404 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,599 What do you think is the best way? Like, what do you tell 405 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,839 people who are like I want to learn more? Like, what are some 406 00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:55,720 essentials, essential principles that you that you try to communicate to people. Well, 407 00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:57,759 that's a tough one. I think your philosophy is slightly different than by 408 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:03,920 to me. I think a rookie needs some sort of guide, some sort 409 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:11,960 of person. Somebody was the personality to to kind of put this menu together 410 00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:15,759 for them. So I think you're a rare person in that case where you 411 00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:18,799 have the patience and the dedication to sit down with these textbooks empower them through 412 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:23,000 on yourself. Well, someone guided me to had I had k weiss my 413 00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:27,160 you know, the teacher. But after that I started kind of you know, 414 00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:30,319 but yeah, it takes time, and you I kind of agree with 415 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,200 you. People really do need someone to show them the initial robes, you 416 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,559 know, right, So you know. In that case, um, you 417 00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:42,559 know, if if somebody's interested in learning about geology, you know, yeah, 418 00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:48,200 the default is come to our university or go to your nearest community college 419 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,279 and take a class or two. And if you're inspired that way to at 420 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,240 least learn the basics with that person, maybe you can do it cheaply. 421 00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:57,920 I mean, I have all my YouTube stuff, all the geology one on 422 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,319 one classes are all online for free and all that sort of thing, So 423 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,240 there's ways to do it that way. But I can just answer it from 424 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,160 my own point of view, which is I did a whole undergraduate degree at 425 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,079 the University of Wisconsin, and I remember graduating. My family was there, 426 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:17,839 and I was thinking to myself, I think I screwed up. I think 427 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,920 I picked the wrong major. I was graduating with a bachelor's degree in geology, 428 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,599 and I'm pretty sure I picked the wrong fields. But then I went 429 00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:30,359 to graduate school because I didn't know what else to do, and I came 430 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,240 out to Idaho and that's when it all clicked for me, and I became 431 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,720 very, very excited about geology because I had my own project. It was 432 00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:41,319 personal. I was in charge of it, as opposed to just kind of 433 00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:45,839 being on the receiving end of all these lectures. So for me, I 434 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:52,000 turned the corner when I could actually design a project, have an advisor that 435 00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:56,680 was really good for me and understood who I was, what my strengths and 436 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,279 weaknesses were, and then I was often running and I'm still doing that forty 437 00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:03,559 years later. But to me, it wasn't the content, It wasn't learning 438 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,359 the basics. That didn't turn it on for me. That it's connecting it 439 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,480 again that context and finding a way to make it work for myself. And 440 00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:15,680 I think you've done the same thing with what you're doing, right, Yeah, 441 00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:19,000 yeah, And I definitely think you got to have something in front of 442 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:25,720 you to look at, like a landscape or a mountain or a road cuts, 443 00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:27,480 you know, because I think especially because you were you were originally in 444 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,799 Ohio, right, I mean that's where you were teaching. That's you know 445 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,519 shit, man, I mean from the Midwest. I'm lucky we had quarries 446 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,920 where I lived that where I lived, I lived southwest of Chicago, in 447 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,960 a suburb that was southwest of Chicago. My mom would drive me in to 448 00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:45,000 the city because she was always going into the city a lot, and we'd 449 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,359 passed the quarries and she'd tell me about these limestone quarries. But everything there 450 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,559 was limestone, you know, aside from these occasional giant boulder that had been 451 00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:56,759 dropped in the middle of a force somewhere by a glacier, you know, 452 00:29:56,759 --> 00:30:00,920 a granite boulder brought from up north by a glacier. So it was all 453 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,920 limestone, I think the Silurian or Devonian or somebody. Either way, you 454 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,160 know, it was that was all I had. And if I didn't have 455 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,799 that, I wouldn't even be thinking about what was down there, you know, 456 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:17,200 beneath all the soil, but totally but you know, gosh, that's 457 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,680 exactly. Yeah. So that's part of this story that I was in Wisconsin, 458 00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:25,000 great place, all my family's there, rolling hills, you know, 459 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:30,079 glaciated drumlins and everything else, moraines. But it wasn't until I moved to 460 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:36,599 west to Idaho where I could see all this stuff. And that department at 461 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,559 that time was really field base. So we had whole classes out in the 462 00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:44,839 field, camping every weekend with the professors and everything. Of course, it 463 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,960 comes to alive, it comes alive for me then. So yeah, my 464 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,640 first teaching job was back at Miami University in Ohio outside of Cincinnati, and 465 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,400 I was nearly married at the time, and my wife was from Idaho, 466 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,720 and and we lasted three years, and she's like, we got to get 467 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,039 out of here, we got to get out of here. We got to 468 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:08,039 get back out to where we belong. And so, yes, the place 469 00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:12,680 is a huge part of it. And it's not this parallel universe that you're 470 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,799 reading about in a textbook. It's right out your window. I'm looking at 471 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:18,119 it right now. I'm looking at the nash Dash Ridge at the top of 472 00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:23,279 the mount right near so it's all in your face and you are intimately connected 473 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:29,240 with it. And back to the public outreach thing, People, at least 474 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,480 out here and maybe even any place, they have real personal connections to these 475 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:40,960 places, Like they remember fishing with their mom and dad on this river in 476 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:48,160 this canyon twenty years ago. And now they're hearing something from this geology person 477 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,400 that's just a little morsel. It's a little it's a little idea, but 478 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,039 they but I'm talking about this place that they know, and they know it 479 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,759 very very well. It's almost a member of their family. And so then 480 00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:02,440 of course they're their ears perk up, and they want to know more because 481 00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:07,279 it's not an abstract thing. It's a place that that's the place that they 482 00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:10,480 couldn't find their phone and and and you know there's some other mishap, you 483 00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:15,799 know, and and so it's that kind of intersection between a person's normal life 484 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,319 and this academic life that I can bring. And it works when you can 485 00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:23,039 connect it with their lives. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I think that's 486 00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,839 the That's the big thing is again, people haven't it in front of them, 487 00:32:25,839 --> 00:32:30,039 whether it's a road cut or a mountain or their favorite hiking trail. 488 00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:34,200 Um. Now, so let's talk about well, let's I want to talk 489 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,000 about the Farelem plate. We got to talk about the fair Elm plate, 490 00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:39,440 right, because that's I mean, that's that's the big one that's dictated so 491 00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:45,400 much of the landscape of North America. But um, I guess, well, 492 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,200 let's just go right to the farelmplate. Where would you Let's tell everyone 493 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:57,160 about the Farrelm plate and what it's done for mountain building and for you know, 494 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,480 the current shape of the continent and everything, um in North America. 495 00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:06,680 Right, I mean where you want to start? I mean basically, yeah, 496 00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:09,519 I'll start by asking you, how do you know about the Sharallon plate 497 00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:14,079 and why are you interested in learning about the Sharon Plate From me, I'm 498 00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:16,920 interested, Well, I'm interested in the Parlon plate rip because well, I 499 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,359 guess it's it's it's just split up, right, because it's it was. 500 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:27,240 It was essentially this this piece of oceanic crust that's subducted beneath, you know, 501 00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:30,279 at an angle beneath the continent, the Condinal Plate of North America, 502 00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:37,160 you get oceanic crust, which is heavier generally basalt is what it's composed of, 503 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,039 among other things. Uh. And that gets recycled roughly every two hundred 504 00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:45,319 million years via plate tectonics, coming up at spreading boundaries like you have in 505 00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:52,160 the mid Atlantic, and then diving back beneath the Earth's crust at subduction zones. 506 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,880 And wherever you get subduction zones, a little ways inland you get volcanoes, 507 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:01,640 whether it's New Zealand or the Cascades or Japan, etc. And so 508 00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:06,759 the Fairyland Plate was this piece of it was a it was a tectonic plate, 509 00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:10,320 a piece of oceanic crust which dived beneath ended up being fully subducted, 510 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:15,679 but it was kind of at a weird um angle, you know, kind 511 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:20,840 of forming the tail end of a triangle as it went down. Um. 512 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,960 And so uh is it is it fully subductive beneath the continental crust? And 513 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,920 then you know you get the Cocoas plate and what does it want to fuca 514 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,960 to the north. It basically what was left of it split up into two 515 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:37,840 other oceanic plates which are still going beneath the continent. Um. But as 516 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,800 it was going down, it's thought to have caused all these mountains, this 517 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,039 kind of rumpling of the Earth's crust, all these all these mountains to come 518 00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:49,639 up, um, even as far away as the you know, Sierra Madre, 519 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,320 Oriental Oriental beneath the you know, just south of where I am in 520 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,440 Texas, you know. Um, But I know, I know. Also 521 00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:01,880 there's other theories about what why some of these mountains have formed. But either 522 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,880 way, I mean, it seems like no matter what the Paralon plate, 523 00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:09,639 which when did it when did it fully subduct like thirty million years ago less 524 00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:15,559 than that? Well, yeah, it's um, there are answers. I'll 525 00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:20,320 give you the answers, but there's also a new story that kind of is 526 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,760 a revolution and how to view the history of this Farlon place. Yes, 527 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,679 and I saw your video about that, and that's what I was hoping you 528 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,880 would talk about. Okay, good, By the way, Why did you 529 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,920 invite me to do this? I'm flattered that you've invited me, Joe, 530 00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:38,800 because I think seeing that video and and and you wanted to involve No, 531 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,559 I've concept in this series. No, I've been watching you. I've been 532 00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:45,400 watching your videos for uh, you know a long time. I mean, 533 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,719 we were going to do something together in March. I just couldn't make it 534 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,280 out there. But oh and oh, I mean I think I thought it'd 535 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,239 be a great conversation. Shit, it already has been. We're only twenty 536 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,639 eight minutes into it. So that's why, you know, I think it's 537 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,559 all this stuff is fun to talk about, and I think putting it out 538 00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:05,400 there in a format that's fun to listen to for other people, uh, 539 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,000 you know, they gain a lot of information from it. And that's that's 540 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:13,360 the main reason, because I think it's going to be elucidating for other people 541 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,840 to hear, like, oh wow, you know, people who don't know 542 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,880 a lot about geology. Maybe and maybe they'll, you know, maybe they'll 543 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,679 they'll go home and google what this ship was. The Fairland plate it's you 544 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,760 know, for example. Okay, well yeah, let me let me let 545 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,079 me answer your question. I was chuckling there because this this almost sounded like 546 00:36:30,159 --> 00:36:34,559 you missed the final exam and I had to call you a get a like 547 00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:38,119 a oral exam to make sure that you learned the content to the course. 548 00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:43,079 You were kind of breaking it down for me. It was beautiful. You 549 00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:45,320 did a nice job, by the way. So yeah, so yeah, 550 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:52,760 I can basically give the cliff notes of this lecture that I have on YouTube 551 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,480 called how did the Rocky Mountains form? Question mark, And that's what you 552 00:36:55,519 --> 00:37:00,239 were referring to. So the idea is that I've been teaching for twenty five 553 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,280 years, this old idea, and it's still the majority opinion. And the 554 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,800 idea is that when Pangaea started to break apart, and that's opening the Atlantic 555 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:15,920 Ocean and having North America start to split away from Europe and Africa about two 556 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:21,320 hundred million years ago, that starts and North America starts drifting west generally, 557 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,679 and there's this huge ocean floor plate called the Farallon Plate under the waters of 558 00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:30,440 the Pacific. So this is starting two hundred million years ago. And so 559 00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:36,360 if North America is starting to drift west and it's a continent, that means 560 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,400 the ocean crust off shore it's going to start diving to the east beneath this 561 00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:45,559 drifting continent because the ocean crust, as you said correctly, Joy, that 562 00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:50,679 ocean crust is just fined, but it's dense and it's basaltic, and so 563 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,800 it's going to want to seduct. So the old model is the Rocky Mountains 564 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:04,400 started to develop as a result of North America drifting west and having this ocean 565 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:10,920 Farllon plate diving beneath North America to the east. And at there's still the 566 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,840 old model and the first thing to develop for this Yerera Nevada Mountains in California. 567 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:21,079 That's a line of volcanoes. That was a line of volcanoes. So 568 00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:25,000 like where King's Canyon and Yosemite and Sekoy are today and the John Near Trail 569 00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:30,239 and Daughter Passed and all that that's all granted today, but that's where there 570 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,920 was a line of beautiful and Deean like volcanoes or New Zealand like volcanoes, 571 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,280 where you just were, and that was because there was a relatively steep angle 572 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:44,119 to the subduction of the Paarllon plate. And then about eighty five million years 573 00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:49,000 ago, North America is still moving west. But the model says, suddenly 574 00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:53,920 the angle of the seducting Fallon plate starts to shallow out, and so those 575 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:59,599 volcanoes in eastern California shut off and they crumble away. And that's why we 576 00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:05,679 have editing the Sierra Nevada, and therefore the mountains to the east, the 577 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,159 Rocky Mountains, start to grow. But it's the Pherrellon plate that's subducting at 578 00:39:10,159 --> 00:39:16,960 a relatively low angle, and so it's just kind of causing uplift with this 579 00:39:17,159 --> 00:39:23,559 underlying flat slab subduction of the Pharillon plate tickling the underbelly. I'm not making 580 00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:30,159 this up of Colorado and Utah and Idaho. To me, that never sounded 581 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,840 right, but I've taught it for a long long time. So you make 582 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,119 the rocky mountains not from volcanic activity, but from this shortening the crust and 583 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:45,880 having pieces of sedimentary layer rock be shoved to the east or uplifted from below. 584 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,559 In Colorado. How are we doing so far? Good? I'm yeah, 585 00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:52,679 exactly, this is what I've been taught and read too. Yes, 586 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:58,960 So if some of your listeners have taken a geology class and they did learn 587 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,360 about the Rocky Mountain, that's the model that they were taught and maybe they'll 588 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,679 go to college this fall. Listeners, if you go to college this fall, 589 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,199 tech geology one on one, nine out of ten instructors are going to 590 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:15,880 teach what I just said in some sort of form. But I'm hip to 591 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:22,519 this new set of work where there's something called tomography where you can actually study 592 00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:28,320 earthquake speeds through the crust and through the mantel, and you can make images 593 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,639 almost like a cat scan of what it's like underneath North America. Way they 594 00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:37,000 held down there like a thousand kilometers two thousand kilometers below North America, and 595 00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:44,880 there are slabs of ocean floor that did not melt when they go underneath a 596 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,760 continent, they continue as an ocean slab, and the freaking things starts sinking 597 00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:53,880 vertically down through the mantle. And this technology now exists where you can actually 598 00:40:53,960 --> 00:41:00,320 find those old pieces of ocean floor. So that old model of the Alon 599 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,880 plate making Sierra Nevadas and California and then making the Rockies was back fifty years 600 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:12,840 ago, before we had this ability to basically quote unquote see into the mantle, 601 00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:19,360 I said Toraphy, before the tomography, totally right. I mean that 602 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,440 was at the dawn of plate tectonics. People were just proud of themselves for 603 00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:25,960 realizing that things you're moving around, well not all we can. We've got 604 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:30,360 these these magic pair of glasses where we can see into this mantle. And 605 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:36,199 you're like, okay, well, where is this farallon plate that's been diving 606 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,440 eastward underneath North America for two hundred million years. And the punchline is it's 607 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,639 not down there. There's not even a hint of it down there. Instead, 608 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:54,400 there's this slab of formerly subducted ocean plate material that's a vertical wall underneath 609 00:41:55,559 --> 00:42:01,360 Florida, underneath New York City. And you're like, well, you're like, 610 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,119 well, wait a minute, I don't understand what is that thing and 611 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,920 how would that have anything to do it's forming the Rocky Mountains. The answer 612 00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:15,239 is it's that that vertical slab that's underneath the east coast today that's like fifteen 613 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:22,639 hundre kilometers below Orlando, used to be in the in the Pacific Ocean. 614 00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:27,920 And if you're with me, that makes sense because North America since Pangaea time 615 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,360 has been drifting west. If we go back, if we run the clock 616 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,920 backwards and we get North America back to where it was one hundred and fifty 617 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,119 million years ago, suddenly that stuff that's underneath Florida is in the Pacific. 618 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,360 I don't know, is that making sense? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. 619 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:50,800 So the question then is what is that vertical slab underneath Florida underneath New York 620 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,679 City. And there's different geometries that you can play with, but the punchline 621 00:42:54,800 --> 00:43:04,199 is it's probably ocean crust that's sub did westward instead of eastward. And so 622 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:09,119 this idea of the Farallon plate subducting beneath North America for such a long time 623 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,679 is maybe erroneous, maybe never actually did happen that way. And there's a 624 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:22,199 whole nother plate that's no longer around that was subducting beneath a fixed island arc 625 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,960 that North America slammed into. And I know that's impossible to visualize in just 626 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,079 a few minutes, but that lecture waits for it if you want to see 627 00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:31,639 it more. It sounds like you did see parts of it. I did. 628 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:36,039 Yeah, I remember you talking about the you know, the them catching 629 00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:39,440 that reading of all this stuff beneath the east coast, this ocean flard beneath 630 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,679 the east coast. So but I mean, so basically, what would have 631 00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:46,960 happened was there was a westward subduction zone before there was an eastward one, 632 00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:53,440 and North America overrode it. And then what exactly would have happened to the 633 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,559 Farrelon plate. Does that mean that the Farrelon plate didn't die or does that 634 00:43:58,599 --> 00:44:01,559 mean there was no ferol On plate, Like the Farrellon plate never died. 635 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:07,239 It's been alive all along inside of us. You know, you can't kill 636 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:14,280 the spirit of the far What is it? What are some possible theories? 637 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,360 Uh, you know where that's true? Of where where it is. I'll 638 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,519 try verbally, but of course the best way to do it is to do 639 00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:29,760 it kind of graphically. Yeah. The idea is it's all about the timing. 640 00:44:31,079 --> 00:44:34,880 For those that were able to follow what I was saying a few minutes 641 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,880 ago, there was a huge collision about one hundred million years ago, and 642 00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:44,880 that one hundred million year collision that kicked off the building of the Rocky Mountains 643 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,599 did not involve the Farallon plate with this new model, but instead it was 644 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:57,360 a inching closer and closer of a drifting North America getting closer and closer to 645 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,119 this fixed island arcs. Think like a b micro continent, like a bunch 646 00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:05,199 of Japan and New Zealand things out there in the water, but they're not 647 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:10,079 drifting North America is. So here comes North America getting closer and closer and 648 00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:17,440 then plowing into this fixed island arc that starts the Rocky Mountain uplift. There's 649 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,800 no Farallon plate yet. But to answer your question, Joey ask her one 650 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:29,559 hundred million years ago, now the fixed Island and North America are drifting together. 651 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,119 The Rockies are growing. But now we do have eastward subduction of the 652 00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:39,199 Farallon plate. So the Farallon plate did exist, but it's a younger story 653 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:44,400 than previously. Ah okay, so it was in the island arc just kind 654 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:50,000 of got a created onto a westward moving North America like a piece of spackling 655 00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:53,559 putty to a rumba kind of right. Is that a way to think it 656 00:45:53,559 --> 00:45:59,199 works? Yeah, that's one way. My favorite is that there's a moose 657 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,119 in the middle of the road, and the old buick is heading towards the 658 00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:06,960 moose, and we're gonna, Jesus, we're gonna hit the moose. And 659 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,920 we're just gonna keep rolling. We're not gonna We're not You're just gonna continue, 660 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,679 and the moose is gonna ride the hood. Why's it gonna be a 661 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:15,679 buick? You don't want to do that too? A buick? You know 662 00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:19,480 how hard it is to find a buick in Chicago. Me and al Scorch 663 00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:23,960 have been looking for a like a thoroughly rusted around the wheel wells circa nineteen 664 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,519 eighty nine buick in Chicago. We can't you know, if he were to 665 00:46:28,599 --> 00:46:30,880 hear that you were talking about a metaphor of destroying a buck, he would 666 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:37,039 cry. But either way, the metaphor works so well. That's it's certainly 667 00:46:37,039 --> 00:46:39,400 interesting as hell, and it would probably, you know, worth this true. 668 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:45,800 I might explain a few other things geological phenomenon in North America as well. 669 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,480 But it's again, it seems so hard. You know, we don't 670 00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:52,280 have a time lapse the eye. God, wouldn't it be great? I 671 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:57,320 always think about this, If you could have like a fixed satellite one hundred 672 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,920 million years ago and just do a time lapse video, you know, looking 673 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:06,920 down and like North America Christ then just see how this really, you know, 674 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:10,800 panned out. You'd see the western interior seaway. You'd see maybe this 675 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,480 island arc that no one knew was there, that kind of thing. So 676 00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:16,840 but but either way, the Rocky Mountains, I mean, how how old 677 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,559 are they? I didn't oh wow, oh two hundred saying two hundred and 678 00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:24,760 eighty five million years ago a mountain building process? Is that right? No? 679 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:34,679 I don't think so. I mean generally the Rockies were intensely building less 680 00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:37,880 than one hundred million years ago and ending about fifty million years yeah, eighty 681 00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:40,400 yeah, I see eighty and fifty five. I don't know. I don't 682 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,960 know what this two eighty five that's from the USGS. Oh, maybe that's 683 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,079 ancient. That's that's for geology of Rocky Mountain National Park. That seems a 684 00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:52,159 little more localized in what it's talking about. We got we got, we 685 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:57,119 got problems here. Like you know, you go to different sites, there's 686 00:47:57,159 --> 00:48:01,239 different numbers, there's different research groups. There's old information, there's new information. 687 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,639 It's hard to grab a hold of something and so that's you know, 688 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,400 when I try to communicate geology, I say, well, here's here's some 689 00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:16,440 data that everybody in science agrees on. Let's put a story together. But 690 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,840 I'm always careful to say, like, it's based on the data that we 691 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,159 have. And then if I if I kind of fashion it that way, 692 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,840 then then there's not a lot of pushback like a wait a minute, I 693 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,480 saw I saw different dates. It's it's it's such a the Internet is so 694 00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:37,880 powerful but also frustrating as and I'm sure you know as well. It's just 695 00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:45,360 trying to well, you know, how to do it beautifully. And it's 696 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:51,199 it's this it's this local thing that you can eventually plug into something big. 697 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,480 I think that's that's an undervalued part of this whole science communication thing. You 698 00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:59,280 take something very very local, like you're so great with holding things in your 699 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:05,639 hand in but then you can also change the scale and say this is symptomatic 700 00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:08,159 of something that's happening across three states, and then you can go bigger and 701 00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:10,719 bigger. And I try to do the same thing with geology. Yeah, 702 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,039 I mean, I think with a lot of with a lot of geologic phenomena 703 00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:19,920 and landscapes, and structural geology and stuff like this. The simple fact is 704 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,239 that a lot of shit we just don't know for sure. There's there's there's 705 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,440 guesses out there. Like when I was trying to figure out you know, 706 00:49:27,039 --> 00:49:30,559 one of my favorite mountain ranges in the world is the Sierra Madre Orientel, 707 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,679 which is, uh, just because the fucking plants there are incredible. And 708 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,920 you've got these, you know what were originally horizontal seafloor beds that have now 709 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,920 been flipped up nearly vertical and just created some of the coolest habitat. I 710 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,119 mean you look at it on like a Google terrain layer and it looks like 711 00:49:46,119 --> 00:49:52,039 a carpet that's been pushed up against a you know, a doorframe on a 712 00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:54,360 hardwood floor, you know, and so that. But I was trying to 713 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,400 look at how this was formed. I couldn't. I mean I was asking 714 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,039 other geologists too. Yeah, yes, we don't really know. I mean, 715 00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:07,199 obviously there was a compression force from somewhere, but why did it start 716 00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:10,000 there on the east, you know, like on the east side of those 717 00:50:10,039 --> 00:50:14,360 mountains, Like it looks like the compression came from the west and then they 718 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,679 hit something on the east and that's why they built up. You know, 719 00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:21,039 you got that rimpling effect, rumpling effect, rippling, whatever the hell it's 720 00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:22,559 called, you know, and no one really know, and I couldn't figure 721 00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:25,880 it out, and I was just kind of there's there's a theory out there 722 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,320 that seems to hold a lot of water for the time being, but who 723 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,159 knows. I mean again, we don't we don't know. There's no there's 724 00:50:32,199 --> 00:50:37,840 no time lapse videography of what happened. Well, you're tapping into something that's 725 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,960 important. It's okay to say the words I don't know. If somebody asks 726 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,079 you a question, you can say I don't know, and you can even 727 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,639 zoom it out and say we don't know. Yeah, to have this. 728 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,599 So it's back to this. You know, you are genuine, but you're 729 00:50:55,639 --> 00:51:00,840 you're also open and you are embraced seeing the fact that you are continuing to 730 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:08,360 learn and being a curious person. People they want that, students of all 731 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:14,880 ages, viewers, listeners, they want to be reassured that there's so much 732 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:19,960 that is unknown and that's not a negative, that's a positive. That's exciting. 733 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,000 It hasn't all been figured out for sure. So these these University Ivory 734 00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:29,239 Tower snobs who just insist that they have all the answers and the way that 735 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:35,480 they speak to everybody is from on high looking down. It infuriates me in 736 00:51:35,519 --> 00:51:42,199 my style and maybe your style as well. Just rooted in like a reaction 737 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,039 against that, Like I had so many professors like man, if I ever 738 00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:47,760 teach, I'm not doing what that fucker's doing up there. Yeah, I 739 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:52,039 can't even picture that person in the in the grocery store. They don't do 740 00:51:52,159 --> 00:51:54,119 they even exist in real life. Well, I think the ego and anything, 741 00:51:54,159 --> 00:51:58,360 the ego and anything takes the fun out of it. That's not fun. 742 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,519 No one and no one likes that. And what's another note. What's 743 00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:06,599 fun is you know, pondering like God, how the shit did that happen? 744 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,199 Like how do I love stand staring at a fucking road cut and being 745 00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:14,119 like, God, damn, how the fuck did that happen? I trying 746 00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:16,239 to figure this out, like thinking about it. Someone okay, someone told 747 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,119 me, but I don't know. I can't envision that, like how does 748 00:52:20,159 --> 00:52:22,159 it? You know, just trying to find I mean, that's what's really 749 00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:24,719 fun. I mean, that's what is really Because now you've got a puzzle 750 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,079 in front of you've got a mystery, you got a riddle, and you're 751 00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:31,960 you know, you're trying to understand things on a scale much grander than yourself 752 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:37,119 and much longer than your own, you know, meager human lifespan. And 753 00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:39,760 that's what I think. That's another part of the you know, the geologic 754 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,920 time scale. Man, I don't know why they don't teach that shit in 755 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,519 first grade. They really should be. It is It is such a it 756 00:52:45,679 --> 00:52:50,440 is so important and it is what is the foundation of our entire world. 757 00:52:50,519 --> 00:52:54,280 Like teach, you know, chronological landmarks along the geologic time scale. When 758 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,639 did plants evolve? When did life evolve? When did photosynthesis evolved? When 759 00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:01,760 did the ox When did you know the atmosphere become full of oxygen? What's 760 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:06,639 what are the oldest fossils of life? You know, three point eight billion 761 00:53:06,679 --> 00:53:10,280 years ago, Great oxygenation, oxygenation event two billion years ago? Uh, 762 00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:14,760 you know, first few karyotic life forms one billion years ago, land plants 763 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,599 four hundred and thirty eight million years ago, Cambrian explosion five hundred you know, 764 00:53:17,639 --> 00:53:21,599 whatever, all that shit that's important. Those are things everyone should know. 765 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,320 You know, it's so fucking and it just what it does to the 766 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:30,719 way that you perceive the world is phenomenal. I mean, it's such a 767 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,280 huge shift from how we perceive the world now, which is either through no 768 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,760 offense to anybody that's somewhat deranged view of religion, which whatever religion does for 769 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,119 people on an emotional level, it does jack shit for people on any kind 770 00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:47,440 of scientific level in terms of understanding the world. So, you know, 771 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:52,880 I don't know anyway that's that's undering. You're onto something else. Here's this 772 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:59,199 is really interesting to me. Thank you for this. Occasionally somebody will say, 773 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:00,960 you know, if there's a lot of feedback on some of the stuff 774 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:09,039 that they see or hear from me. Occasionally somebody's very precise in their language 775 00:54:09,039 --> 00:54:14,800 and they am reminding me or maybe helping me see for the first time that 776 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:23,360 that there's reverence and there's kind of awe and at the power of all this, 777 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:29,519 and yeah, the mystery part, but it's it is almost like tapping 778 00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:34,480 into a religious thing or maybe what religion was for some people who no longer 779 00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:38,079 than practice, and then they're maybe subconsciously or something looking for something else to 780 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:45,159 celebrate in the same sort of way. But yeah, if you're talking about 781 00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:50,519 millions of years, or you're talking about the energy necessary to lift the Cascade 782 00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:54,480 Mountains or to take some granite in Mexico and have it now up in British 783 00:54:54,519 --> 00:55:00,920 Columbia. I mean that is awesome stuff, not in the casual slang, 784 00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:05,519 but like truly like the awe and the power. Yeah, oh yeah, 785 00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:09,000 it doesn't it doesn't mean. It does help you see your world in a 786 00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:14,880 in a different way, and oftentimes it's energizing in a positive way. I 787 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,159 think too. For what's really good for me when I'm trying to put something 788 00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:22,039 in a video and teach people, is I have to go back and try 789 00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:28,880 to remember how I thought of the world before I learned all this stuff versus 790 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,519 now, how did I like? Because it was just so it just blew 791 00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:37,519 my mind and it took a while to set in. Whether it's like principles 792 00:55:37,559 --> 00:55:42,840 of monophyletic and polyphyletic in terms of biology and evolution, in taxonomy, phylogeny, 793 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,880 shit like that, or whether it's you know, in terms of plate 794 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,719 tectonics and and and you know, basically, how does it fucking you know, 795 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,440 marine fossil end up ten thousand feet in the air on the side of 796 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,079 a mountain, you know, it was I and I have to go back 797 00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:00,719 and be like, okay, well how would I look kind of questions what 798 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,960 I ask like, why would it be so hard for me to understand this 799 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,960 initially? Why was it so hard for me to understand its initially? You 800 00:56:07,039 --> 00:56:13,559 know? And that's what helps me better communicate this to other people because people 801 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,559 a lot of people don't know the questions to ask at first. It just 802 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:20,800 is it's hard, you know, not everyone knows what questions are going to 803 00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,679 get me to the answer I'm looking for. So, so you started doing 804 00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,760 this ten fifteen years ago, it sounds like I'm just thinking of the videos 805 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,000 now in your YouTube channel. Let's say, so, how has your style 806 00:56:32,159 --> 00:56:38,360 changed over the years are you are you doing something totally differently in your mind 807 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:43,079 than you were ten fifteen years ago? Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah. 808 00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,519 I mean what I've slowly been doing and I think it probably started in 809 00:56:45,519 --> 00:56:50,239 two thousand and six. That's when I went to City College of San Francisco 810 00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,440 and I was like, you know what, I don't want to go back 811 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:57,079 to school because I had gone to school two years earlier for two years a 812 00:56:57,119 --> 00:57:00,639 few years earlier, and I was like studying sociology or something that no offense 813 00:57:00,679 --> 00:57:02,960 to any sociology people, but I thought was kind of lame. And I 814 00:57:04,039 --> 00:57:06,320 was like, Nah, this ain't it. This isn't the answers I'm looking 815 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:12,679 for. And so I went back to school and I'm trying to collect my 816 00:57:12,679 --> 00:57:15,360 thoughts here and there. It was like two thousand and six, yeah, 817 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:20,840 and I think like that's when I began the process that that I've been on 818 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:25,760 ever since, which is slowly building paradigm, like a perception of my world. 819 00:57:27,199 --> 00:57:31,280 And by nailing down things like the chronological landmarks and the geologic time scale 820 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:36,679 or how evolution works. The evolution shit was really hard for me to kind 821 00:57:36,679 --> 00:57:38,440 of wrap my head around how certain things evolve, Like how does the plant 822 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:44,320 evolve to look like a rock? How does a rattlesnake, you know, 823 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,280 the same species of rattlesnake like speckled rattlesnakes in the Mojabi. How does each 824 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:54,559 different population resemble the type of substrate that it lives on, you know, 825 00:57:54,599 --> 00:58:00,840 whether it's purple rhyolite or pink granite or or you know, white. And 826 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:02,719 it's true, I mean these and these reptiles, they're not like chameleons. 827 00:58:02,719 --> 00:58:07,440 They can't just shift, you know, they don't change overnight. It takes 828 00:58:07,599 --> 00:58:14,159 generations, you know, of these things being presumably culled out by hawks that 829 00:58:14,239 --> 00:58:15,360 can detect them. But I mean, you know, how does that kind 830 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:20,000 of mimicry, that camouflage evolve that kind of thing. So that's what I've 831 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,920 slowly been doing ever since. I guess is these questions really popped up in 832 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,800 my mind two thousand and five, two thousand and six in response to seeing, 833 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,320 you know, railroad cuts when I was riding freight trains, or just 834 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,960 having questions about the world, realizing I was a jackaspect that I was ignorant 835 00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,440 of a lot of things, and then slowly being like, you know what, 836 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,559 I'm going to start piecing together my own perception of the world around me 837 00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:45,320 because I need to know, you know, the context that I exist in 838 00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:49,400 and all these things around me. So and that's one thing. But then 839 00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:54,159 having the instincts to start making videos or to make making programs, that's a 840 00:58:54,199 --> 00:59:00,639 totally different layer on this. So why the move to the video stuff as 841 00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:06,199 you were continuing to learn, Well, I think I was just sharing stuff 842 00:59:06,239 --> 00:59:09,599 I already knew, and then you know, in terms of making videos like 843 00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:13,920 that became an inspiration to learn more. Like I still learn a lot like 844 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,440 what you know, I was just in New Zealand, and I was I 845 00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,159 had no idea. They've got, you know, a few convergent, evolutionarily 846 00:59:20,159 --> 00:59:22,559 convergent traits among the flora over there, the plants over there, that these 847 00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:28,400 plants have evolved in response to these now extinct nine different species of moas, 848 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,239 these giant flightless birds that were built like fucking tanks. And the thigh bones 849 00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:35,400 on these things were huge. You know, they look like cow thigh bones, 850 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,159 the femur or whatever as I think that's the thigh bones. Anyway, 851 00:59:39,159 --> 00:59:42,960 you get the point. But and so I had no idea, and so 852 00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,119 I just you know, going there, I learned. I mean, I 853 00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:49,119 don't know all this shit already. I learn as I go, too, 854 00:59:49,159 --> 00:59:51,599 and I'll professionally be learning as I go, and I'll be learning as I 855 00:59:51,639 --> 00:59:54,440 go till the day I fucking die. And that's what makes life so fun, 856 00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:58,360 you know, that's what makes you never stop learning. You know, 857 00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,880 when you learn a certain thing, boom, you got you Now you have 858 01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,400 this knowledge. Now you share with other people. But you've got a ton 859 01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,360 more to learn yourself still, And that's the way I guess it's the way 860 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,320 I view the world. So that's what I've been doing. So that's kind 861 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,440 of what I view my life and my perception of the world around me as 862 01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,519 a puzzle that I'm slowly piecing together, you know. And it started fifteen 863 01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:21,280 years ago. It really started fifteen years ago, and so and it makes 864 01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,519 this stuff endlessly fascinating. There is you know, now I'm getting into all 865 01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:29,159 kinds of other fields and studying all kinds of different things that that started with 866 01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:34,400 this one, this one seed that sprouted. You know, that's attractive, 867 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,840 that's inspiring that you're piecing this together for yourself. And I don't need you 868 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,519 to lay down in the couch here. As I ask more personal questions, 869 01:00:43,039 --> 01:00:49,800 I was gonna say, what about this sharing motivated you? You must get 870 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,239 something out of the reaction that you get from viewer comments or emails or whatever, 871 01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:59,320 like it must feel good it does for me to put this stuff out 872 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,360 there and then have a bunch of positive reaction. Is that true for you 873 01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,719 too? Yeah? I mean, yeah, it's it's not them. It's 874 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:07,400 it's not the comments. Because I think a lot of people. I think 875 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,920 some people just listen for you know, the comedy or the the fucking Life 876 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,480 cent or whatever. But I think the most fulfilling thing is, you know, 877 01:01:15,639 --> 01:01:17,679 when you get those emails where you're like, you change the way I 878 01:01:17,679 --> 01:01:21,119 look at the world, you know, and now I got a job in 879 01:01:21,199 --> 01:01:23,119 botany, and now I'm working at my local botanic garden, I went back 880 01:01:23,119 --> 01:01:25,960 to school, all this shit. I mean, that's that's the best that 881 01:01:27,039 --> 01:01:29,440 when I get those, I'm like, fuck yeah, Like that's when I 882 01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:31,320 was That's what I was going for. Like I don't give a fuck about 883 01:01:31,719 --> 01:01:35,880 you know, getting pass on the back and all that. Uh it feels 884 01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,920 good sometimes, but it's what really does it is the knowing that like you're 885 01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:43,719 slowly changing. In effect, you're slowly changing the world. You're changing a 886 01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:50,679 culture, very very in a very minute way, because there's obviously but you're 887 01:01:50,679 --> 01:01:53,679 still getting people to look at the world in a way that they may not 888 01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,440 have looked at it before. And it's a it's a way that we need 889 01:01:58,039 --> 01:02:00,679 more people to look at the world, especially in this country, which I 890 01:02:00,679 --> 01:02:06,840 feel like is getting increasingly dumber for whatever reason, you know, But like 891 01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:13,079 you go to other first world countries and lay people have an innate awareness many 892 01:02:13,079 --> 01:02:16,280 of them do of you know, their landscapes, their geology, they're they're 893 01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,119 they're not even first world country. They just say first world because that's what 894 01:02:20,159 --> 01:02:23,320 you know, we compare America to right, although America's sometimes you can call 895 01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,519 it a third world country with a Gucci Bilt, you know, the way 896 01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:30,119 it's going, the erosion of the middle class here. But that that aside, 897 01:02:30,119 --> 01:02:32,239 I mean, you know, you go to other places and there's just 898 01:02:32,519 --> 01:02:38,000 common there's just a more general awareness. There's I guess, better education. 899 01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:43,199 I mean, should you hear all this stuff about how China's directing their you 900 01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:47,159 know, their population to become more educated. Like there, their pop culture, 901 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:52,519 their social media, you know, is different in that regard, and 902 01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:55,559 so I think that's and that's that leads to a better quality of life and 903 01:02:55,599 --> 01:02:59,400 a better world for everybody. It really does. Man, you get less 904 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,079 dummies out there, You get less just you know, unthinking consumers. You 905 01:03:02,119 --> 01:03:08,119 get more conscious people who are and who also have a tide of their land, 906 01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:10,840 and you know, the fulfillment that they get from that. I think 907 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,920 it's it's really good for people. So that's what that's what it feels the 908 01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,039 best. Man, Well, you're doing it. You are, You are 909 01:03:17,079 --> 01:03:22,880 actually doing it, and it may at times feel like it's a very small 910 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,119 drop in the bucket thing. They're probably other times when it does feel like, 911 01:03:25,159 --> 01:03:30,000 holy shit, there's a lot of people here and and they are following 912 01:03:30,039 --> 01:03:32,159 what I'm doing. And you're getting more and more of those emails that are 913 01:03:32,159 --> 01:03:36,960 saying, uh, you know, you're a very important person in my life, 914 01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:40,480 Joey, and I changed this and that about myself because it's you've inspired 915 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:45,760 me to do x y and Z. Universities are not doing that. Universities 916 01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:51,000 are dinosaurs and they are slowly dying. And I'm doing more and more with 917 01:03:51,079 --> 01:03:53,440 a YouTube channel because I can do it in my own way. I think 918 01:03:53,519 --> 01:04:00,760 similar to you. And it's it's that freedom to pursue things and to be 919 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:10,000 real, nimble and responsive to folks in real life. Um, that university 920 01:04:10,039 --> 01:04:15,519 setup is just unable. They're unwilling or unable to recognize some of the stuff 921 01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:17,840 that you're doing. Yeah, it's it's sad man, I mean, and 922 01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,039 I hear a lot of people in academia, Like most of my friends in 923 01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:24,960 academia, the people that get along with are actually older, you know, 924 01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:30,039 there they were. I mean, I've pissed off plenty of plenty of people 925 01:04:30,039 --> 01:04:33,559 in academia too. Surprisingly it's mostly been the younger people. It's weird, 926 01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:38,159 it's it's but whatever anyway, Um, but I hear a lot of people, 927 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,159 yeah, young, young, young botany professors are are fans of you 928 01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,119 or younger people, yeah, you know, I think they tend to be 929 01:04:45,159 --> 01:04:48,400 a little bit stiffer in some ways. And humorists. I get plenty of 930 01:04:48,519 --> 01:04:53,880 people that are young botany you know, people in academia who like it too. 931 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,840 But I get I think a lot of people just don't know how to 932 01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:00,639 take it, and they don't yeah, you know, they don't catch the 933 01:05:00,679 --> 01:05:03,280 humor in it, or maybe they're from generally more well off background. I 934 01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,840 don't know, I have no idea, but I've you know, I've got 935 01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:12,679 friends, a lot of friends who are actually like older professors you know, 936 01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,920 or have been in academia for a while, who are obviously, you know, 937 01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:19,239 not very stiff, because that doesn't I don't think anyone, you know, 938 01:05:19,239 --> 01:05:23,400 with a stick up their ass is going to enjoy my style too much. 939 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,519 But and they've all said the same thing. I mean, they all 940 01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:28,960 kind of say, yeah, it's sad, what's happening. It's it's you 941 01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:33,920 know, this this private, intense privatization, this entrepreneurial this mixing of like 942 01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:40,440 entrepreneurialism with higher academia is really tragic, and you know, we're I don't 943 01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,800 know, man, it's just it's it's sad. But you know, luckily, 944 01:05:43,079 --> 01:05:46,320 for better or worse, there's this contingent of social media that's coming out 945 01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:49,920 that's getting people more stoked on this shit. That the amount of social media 946 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:55,239 accounts I see doing plant stuff now and not just like can you eat it? 947 01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,599 Or is it herbalism? You know, no, no offense to that 948 01:05:58,679 --> 01:06:01,559 stuff, you know, forging, but but more so just like here's this 949 01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:06,320 plant, here's you know what's talking about taxonomy, talking about ecology, what 950 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:11,800 pollinates it? You know, really cool stuff like bigger picture shit. And 951 01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,199 I see a lot more of that out there now, and I think that's 952 01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:16,039 really cool, because I fucking nature feels good, man, you know, 953 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:20,519 and so does geology. Hiking out and seeing these things and getting an understanding 954 01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:24,519 the world, it feels good. And I think people are starting to catch 955 01:06:24,519 --> 01:06:30,599 it on so well. It is inspiring to have folks of all walks of 956 01:06:30,639 --> 01:06:35,559 life have the power and the motivation to do this kind of non traditional type 957 01:06:35,599 --> 01:06:40,719 stuff. I mean, for my own story, I stopped at a master's 958 01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,360 degree. I did not go on and get a PhD because I was nervous 959 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,119 about going deeper into that world, which even as a young person, I 960 01:06:47,159 --> 01:06:51,719 realized was probably not my group. Like the more you get into it, 961 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:57,199 the more the suckage increases. I've got, you know, called Yeah. 962 01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:02,000 So I've managed to kind of be a neutral party. Basically. I've lived 963 01:07:02,039 --> 01:07:05,679 and worked at a university all of my life, but I've had one foot 964 01:07:05,679 --> 01:07:09,960 you know, off campus essentially, and one foot on campus, and I've 965 01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:14,639 been kind of straddling that gray area between black and white, and it's been 966 01:07:14,679 --> 01:07:19,639 fulfilling. But I've hard wired myself not to have anybody in the university's system 967 01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:26,679 or in my geology department really understand what I'm up to. And that became 968 01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,000 very clear at the beginning of the pandemic when I forgot I even had a 969 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:35,400 YouTube channel. There were just a couple of hundred subscribers, and I freaked 970 01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:40,280 out in March of twenty twenty because my calendar was suddenly empty like a lot 971 01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:45,159 of people, and so I started doing live streams every afternoon from my backyard, 972 01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,840 five times a week for like three months, and there was this you 973 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:55,199 know, organic kind of whatever worldwide audience that was there just basically trapped at 974 01:07:55,199 --> 01:07:58,000 home and wanted to be part of this. And yes it was geology, 975 01:07:58,039 --> 01:08:01,880 but was also just community and everything out. Ever since that March of twenty 976 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:10,119 twenty Spring of twenty twenty, I've ard the university as ash, you know, 977 01:08:11,079 --> 01:08:15,599 so unable to operate like I was operating back then. And then that 978 01:08:15,679 --> 01:08:18,520 momentum is still going on now. So yeah, the pandemic for me was 979 01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:27,439 was was a change change of perception for me, just accelerated by um, 980 01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:32,920 divorce from from that university scene. Yeah, and I think I want to 981 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:34,760 I want to. I'm not ready to let you go yet. I want 982 01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:40,680 to keep talking some geology stuff. But but um, yeah, I think 983 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:44,119 universities are not in a lot of a lot of people in academy are not 984 01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:47,359 very good at science communication. And I understand why, because they you you 985 01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:50,680 need to feel free to a certain extent. You got to feel you gotta 986 01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,760 be able to cut loose. You've got to feel, you know, feel 987 01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,359 able to chill out, and those are not settings where you can do that. 988 01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:00,840 You've got reputations to worry about. You've got in my gonna get fired, 989 01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:02,880 You've got you know, is this going to be uncouth? That kind 990 01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,359 of stuff. So you know, whereas me, I'm just a slob that 991 01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:09,359 got into this stuff and has been able to make it work. I don't 992 01:09:09,399 --> 01:09:14,640 have any reputation to live up to except am I communicating shit in a good 993 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,680 way and making it funny? And are you learning something? That's That's all 994 01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,359 my reputation is about. I don't have to worry about getting fired, have 995 01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:23,079 to worry about any of this stuff. So for me, it's easy. 996 01:09:23,159 --> 01:09:25,920 I'll keep doing it till it sucks and it's not fun anymore, or you 997 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,640 know, people get bored. But but um, you know, and then 998 01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,960 I'll do something else. That's a beautiful thing too. I mean, I 999 01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,000 don't know if you're committed to X, Y and Z in the next couple 1000 01:09:35,039 --> 01:09:40,840 of years, but this freedom to do as much or as little as you 1001 01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:45,119 choose, there's a lot of power in that that you're that you're not. 1002 01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:47,319 You know, as soon as it starts to become less fun, you don't 1003 01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:49,960 have to keep slogging away. Yeah. Maybe I don't know. Maybe, 1004 01:09:50,039 --> 01:09:53,920 Joey, maybe you have built an empire to this point you feel like you 1005 01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,319 have to keep the wheels shirted I at all. No, No, I'll 1006 01:09:57,359 --> 01:10:00,640 just do it. It's got to be fun or else if it's fuck it. 1007 01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:01,640 You know, it's like any job. I always said that about the 1008 01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,880 best thing about having a job is being able to quit it. It really 1009 01:10:05,039 --> 01:10:09,119 is, you know. So I'm surprised I lasted at the railroad that long. 1010 01:10:09,159 --> 01:10:11,640 But that was a fun job for a long time, and you know, 1011 01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:13,279 got a lot of cool stories out of it. Well, anyway, 1012 01:10:13,359 --> 01:10:15,520 let's move on really quick. How much time you got, Nick, How 1013 01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:20,880 much time you got? I have got another half an hour? Yeah, 1014 01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:26,000 oh yeah, we're taking it. We're taking it, brother. So getting 1015 01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:30,239 back to geology stuff. So what are the things you got going on there 1016 01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,600 in Washington that that you find So we're luring. I want to talk about 1017 01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:41,800 the volcanism past and present, maybe touching the Missoula floods. Talk talk about 1018 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,359 some of the fossils, fossil flora, Like what did the climate look like 1019 01:10:45,359 --> 01:10:49,760 because those fossils I was finding in Winnatchee, you know, I guess they're 1020 01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,520 maya scene. They did not look like plants that grow there. Now. 1021 01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:58,319 I mean, you get a really really cool snapshot of what that area must 1022 01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:00,399 have looked like. It was probably a lot warmer twenty million years ago. 1023 01:11:01,399 --> 01:11:09,600 Yes, I keep things fresh, and I designed it so that every year 1024 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,600 or a year and a half, I'm onto a completely different thing, and 1025 01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,479 then I kind of do a deep guy. So right now I'm with the 1026 01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,159 ice age floods, and I'm learning about this guy called Jay Harlan Bretts, 1027 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:23,880 who was a longtime professor at University of Chicago. He probably lived in a 1028 01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:27,279 suburb not far from your shuburb, But I don't know Homewood. Is that 1029 01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,439 is that it's on a south side? Yeah, there was. I knew 1030 01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,439 a couple of punk bands from Homewood back in the day. They were good 1031 01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:38,520 and had garage shows and stuff. Yeah, working class suburb of Chicago. 1032 01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:44,920 Yeah. So that's an example where I'm I'm reading the original Bretts papers from 1033 01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,239 one hundred years ago when he was out here. Every summer in the nineteen 1034 01:11:47,279 --> 01:11:51,800 twenties, you brought University of Chicago students out on the train and they covered 1035 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:57,439 this ground on foot. And he put this story together about a huge flood 1036 01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:03,439 that operated in many channels simultaneously. Graham Coolly, Moses cool. They've been 1037 01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:08,720 making some videos about it recently. But I've gone back to his original work, 1038 01:12:09,039 --> 01:12:13,479 and again, it's places that many of us out here know very well, 1039 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,680 and he was seeing things that have kind of been lost. The narrative 1040 01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:20,239 of the Missoula floods is a different story than what he was doing one hundred 1041 01:12:20,319 --> 01:12:25,840 years ago. So I'm currently putting that together and trying to see his original 1042 01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:29,800 work and then eventually trying to figure out why we've gotten away from something original 1043 01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,279 stuff. So that's younger than two million years ago, right, right, 1044 01:12:32,319 --> 01:12:35,239 at least? Go ahead, Well, I was gonna ask you, so 1045 01:12:35,319 --> 01:12:39,399 let's give a rundown of what the Missoula floods were. Basically, it's a 1046 01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:43,399 pretty recent phenomenon, right. The premise is that during the Ice Age, 1047 01:12:43,399 --> 01:12:45,760 there were these glaciers. One of them broke. It was a glacial dam. 1048 01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:50,159 It was holding back a lot of water where somewhere in Idaho or Montana, 1049 01:12:50,199 --> 01:12:55,199 I guess Montana, Missoula, and then all this water flooded west towards 1050 01:12:55,199 --> 01:13:00,760 the ocean. But it was like a long in terms of lessman like a 1051 01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:05,119 long event, and it was catastrophic and drastically reshaped the landscape. Is that 1052 01:13:05,279 --> 01:13:11,920 somewhat correct or what the that's the conventional narrative. So you're picking up a 1053 01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:15,000 theme for me. I've got a soft spot for the unconventional. I've got 1054 01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:21,600 a soft spot for the underdocks. So the traditional story is, yes, 1055 01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:29,359 there were dozens of floods of glacial Lake Missoula, and there was an ice 1056 01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:33,560 dam in today's northern Idaho that broke, and there was a flood of water. 1057 01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,840 We drained glacier Lake Missoula and maybe a couple of weeks time, and 1058 01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:41,640 that water goes all the way over Portland and to the Pacific Ocean, and 1059 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,399 then that ice dam reforms. Weird to me, but whatever reforms in northern 1060 01:13:45,399 --> 01:13:50,159 Idaho, we make another glacier Lake Missoula. We repeat the story, and 1061 01:13:50,279 --> 01:13:55,960 many of the channels in eastern Washington between Spokane and my house here in Ellensburg 1062 01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:00,520 got hammered by this water. Okay, that's what I've thought for a long 1063 01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:02,920 time. Now. If you go back to Bretz's stuff one hundred years ago, 1064 01:14:04,039 --> 01:14:10,279 he's saying the big flooding was not younger than twenty thousand years ago, 1065 01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,920 but the big flooding happened one hundred thousand years earlier than that, and the 1066 01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,720 water was not coming from Montana, but it was coming from the fucking ice 1067 01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:25,279 sheet itself, which was immediately north of Grand Cooley Dam. And this concept 1068 01:14:25,319 --> 01:14:30,399 of subglacial flow you can actually have yoku ups with sudden releases of water from 1069 01:14:30,399 --> 01:14:36,239 an ice sheet itself, was the story as opposed to this kind of skirting 1070 01:14:36,319 --> 01:14:42,000 of glacial waters along the front of an ice sheet. So I'm hot on 1071 01:14:42,039 --> 01:14:45,600 this right now because I've got a bunch of buddies who are working up in 1072 01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:50,680 Canada and they have a beautiful case for subglacial flow coming down the Okanagan River 1073 01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:59,039 valley and heading towards when at Ye Washington. But the tribal mentality of the 1074 01:14:59,079 --> 01:15:02,359 ice age floods science has who've been operating the last fifty years or not letting 1075 01:15:02,359 --> 01:15:06,439 those guys do their things. So I mean, it's it's that again. 1076 01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:13,079 These narratives are interesting to me, and yes, I'm happy to lay in 1077 01:15:13,119 --> 01:15:19,039 and lean into a bunch of basic field observations that support a narrative. But 1078 01:15:19,079 --> 01:15:25,479 if the field observations don't totally support the general story. Then I start asking 1079 01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:28,479 questions, and much like you, I don't have to worry about a reputation 1080 01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,439 or anything else. I just go, hey, man, I'm just a 1081 01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,720 teacher. I'm just asking questions. Put some stuff out there. They've got 1082 01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:38,840 any leads that can help me with and this YouTube community and then you know, 1083 01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,560 people are starting to go through old newspaper clippings and other things and we 1084 01:15:43,159 --> 01:15:45,279 piece some stuff together. So that's the fun for me. That content. 1085 01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:47,800 It's fun. I mean, it's fun stuff to think about. Either way, 1086 01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:51,319 you know right or not? Who knows right? And that's that's to 1087 01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,880 be determined, you know, as more evidence comes in. But it's really 1088 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,279 fun stuff to think about. But I mean, for people that don't live 1089 01:15:58,319 --> 01:16:01,079 in the region, explain, well, I mean something happened. It's evidence 1090 01:16:01,159 --> 01:16:04,680 something happened from looking at the landscape. And for people that don't live in 1091 01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:11,079 the region, what makes it apparent? Like I tell everyone what, you 1092 01:16:11,119 --> 01:16:15,239 know, what is so obvious that there was a mass movement of water that 1093 01:16:15,279 --> 01:16:18,960 occurred here at some point in the last you know, a few hundred thousand 1094 01:16:19,079 --> 01:16:28,079 years. Great question. So eastern Washington have these very thick basaltic lava flows 1095 01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:34,520 Hawaiian lava enormously thick, yeah, and mantling the top of those lava flows 1096 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:44,479 is wind blown silt thick soils called loos l o eess. And so before 1097 01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:49,119 these ice age floods, that loos mantled this giant lava cake. So it's 1098 01:16:49,119 --> 01:16:53,119 like a German chocolate cake with a bunch of cocaine on top of them, 1099 01:16:54,359 --> 01:16:59,760 a continuous, you know, blanket of of cocaine. And so then it's 1100 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:03,720 obvious that a bunch of water came through because when you now walk around on 1101 01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:09,840 top of this German chocolate cake, there's whole parts of the top of the 1102 01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:15,359 cake where all the coke is gone. There's other places where there's a place 1103 01:17:15,399 --> 01:17:17,960 where all the coke is gone, but there's islands of cocaine in the middle. 1104 01:17:18,399 --> 01:17:23,920 So in other words, there's little remnants of this former mantle where you 1105 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:29,279 can see these tear drop little islands of the lists. And most impressively, 1106 01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:33,640 there's other places where not only is the cocaine gone, but the three top 1107 01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:39,640 layers of the German chocolate cake are gone, and they're evidence of waterfalls. 1108 01:17:40,359 --> 01:17:45,319 Where you have this niagara falls like horseshoe shaped cliff, and you've got giant 1109 01:17:45,399 --> 01:17:48,560 potholes at the bottom of the cliff, and there's piles of gravel that are 1110 01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:53,880 downstream, and so not to bring a brac to brets, but I will 1111 01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:58,079 again one more time. For a hundred years ago, Bretz is making maps 1112 01:17:58,079 --> 01:18:00,279 of these features and he's saying, look, man, this has got to 1113 01:18:00,319 --> 01:18:05,800 be a catastrophic flood of water, probably just one flood that started quickly and 1114 01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:11,359 ended quickly. And all the experts of the day said, that's impossible. 1115 01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:15,199 We don't do things catastrophically in geology, Harley, It's got to be gradual. 1116 01:18:15,399 --> 01:18:19,359 So these are just glacial rivers that are just working their way at different 1117 01:18:19,359 --> 01:18:24,840 places. To Holy bullshit, man, every channel was full of water at 1118 01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:28,279 the same time. I had elevations of the heads of all these channels. 1119 01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:30,119 You guys are high, by the way, Have you ever been out here? 1120 01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,279 Yeah? Anybody actually been out here? Really quickly, if I could 1121 01:18:33,319 --> 01:18:38,960 just read from minute that dogmatic thinking, that that anti catastrophism thinking is so 1122 01:18:39,039 --> 01:18:43,319 fucking weird to me, Like it just seems so weird to be so stuck 1123 01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,319 to this is the way things have been slow and gradual. I mean that 1124 01:18:46,359 --> 01:18:49,520 seems almost anti scientifically, you don't know, like it was. Maybe for 1125 01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,760 the majority of the time it's slow and gradual. A lot of things happen 1126 01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:57,159 that way. But there's also a lot of evidence for you know, a 1127 01:18:57,239 --> 01:19:00,119 crazy, crazy event, not crazy, but a large been happening over a 1128 01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:06,800 relatively small period of time. We're back to our theme earlier in this conversation, 1129 01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:13,920 Joe, who's curious and who's open? Not many people even in geology, 1130 01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:17,600 this group think this, this fashions of the day business. It just 1131 01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:21,239 presides. And so yeah, I taught geology three fifty one this spring, 1132 01:19:21,319 --> 01:19:27,119 and we're reading these papers with my students, and I kept adding this subtext 1133 01:19:27,279 --> 01:19:30,640 or this, this context for this whole thing. The students kept saying, 1134 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:33,199 look, why these guys are in science. Isn't that why people go into 1135 01:19:33,319 --> 01:19:39,199 science? This, this, this curiosity and this this wonder and this on. 1136 01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:42,079 I'm like, well, apparently not with some of these dudes, Like 1137 01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,880 so, yes, it's not just geology, of course, but this, 1138 01:19:46,199 --> 01:19:54,199 yes, this this clash of the conventional versus the independent thinkers. It's stunning 1139 01:19:54,319 --> 01:19:57,439 sometimes when you just pull back and you think about this, that's what happens. 1140 01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,600 You round up these stiffies, You round up the stiffy scientists. You 1141 01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,159 make them do taba acid in a beautiful place, you know, if they're 1142 01:20:04,159 --> 01:20:09,640 geologists, have them do it at Columbia Gorge, and you just I'm serious, 1143 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:13,199 man, I mean, I'm half joking, but you know, Carrie 1144 01:20:13,239 --> 01:20:16,520 Mullis invented PCR. After taking after take, you're just just a way to 1145 01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,880 shape the you know, shake things up, shake up your view of the 1146 01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:23,640 world. You never know what anyway, Yeah, if anyone wants to look 1147 01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:28,000 this up, type in Google image search satellite image Missoula floods and you will 1148 01:20:28,039 --> 01:20:33,119 get a good amount of pictures of what we're talking about. Because it's it's 1149 01:20:33,159 --> 01:20:35,840 pretty cool. I mean, it's pretty and I love that. I love 1150 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,399 that, fucking you know. I remember the first time I ever looked at 1151 01:20:39,399 --> 01:20:42,960 a satellite image of Mount Shasta and I was like, what is this shit? 1152 01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:46,760 That looks like someone knocked over a jar of black molasses. That's you 1153 01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:50,279 know, coming northwest out of Mount Shasta. And then I went I was 1154 01:20:50,359 --> 01:20:54,680 like, I don't know where that is. I piloted trains, prey trains 1155 01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:58,479 through that. That's a massive fucking lava flow of boulders the size of a 1156 01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:03,079 minivan that I guess are kind of basalt, but Manches is not a basaltic 1157 01:21:03,079 --> 01:21:08,840 pocano. They're more like black antisite oriola. Anyway, I know what that 1158 01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:12,920 is. It's an incredible, you know, eerie landscape. There's only like 1159 01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,760 a couple canyon live oak trees, circus chrysalopis and other things popping up. 1160 01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:19,800 Man Zanita's popping up here and there. But this is like a giant rubble 1161 01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:24,279 field. It takes forever to walk through. You've got to climb over it. 1162 01:21:25,359 --> 01:21:29,359 And that is all I mean from the asylam is that looks like liquid, 1163 01:21:29,399 --> 01:21:32,199 Like that's fucking wild, that's insane. Like I just that changes everything 1164 01:21:32,199 --> 01:21:35,319 about the way I think of the world or my local environment. Now. 1165 01:21:35,319 --> 01:21:41,199 I used to live up there temporarily near Weed, California and Dunsmere And so 1166 01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:44,640 you know when you when you zoom out, it's it's that zooming out. 1167 01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:46,840 I always use that those words as an analogy, that zooming out to get 1168 01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:50,359 a bigger picture. I think that does people so much good, you know, 1169 01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:54,800 just like with a drone zooming out, slowly zooming out, zooming up 1170 01:21:55,199 --> 01:21:59,279 and looking down and wow, this is what what happened. It's I don't 1171 01:21:59,279 --> 01:22:02,800 know, man, It's it's really really cool stuff to think about. You've 1172 01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:08,119 got it. It's the zooming out. And yeah, I mean this place 1173 01:22:08,239 --> 01:22:12,439 is Disneyland for geology. I mean, I'm here on purpose. It's it's 1174 01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:16,159 Ellensburg, Washington at Central Washington University. But within a two hour's drive in 1175 01:22:16,199 --> 01:22:21,800 all directions from this place, I can get to these cascade volcanoes. I 1176 01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:27,159 can get to the ice sheet from Canada, and can get to these alpine 1177 01:22:27,199 --> 01:22:30,279 glaciers. I can get to these exotic terrains, which is what I was 1178 01:22:30,319 --> 01:22:34,039 into a couple of years ago, where pieces of granite are clearly from Mexico, 1179 01:22:34,279 --> 01:22:39,960 but it's slowly been moved north on San Andrea's fault like structures, on 1180 01:22:40,039 --> 01:22:42,760 and on and on. And I'm not even much of a fossil guy, 1181 01:22:43,159 --> 01:22:46,600 said, but the fossil stuff draws me on on occasion. So yeah, 1182 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:51,199 it's it's it's unlimited. And you know, I'm making these video programs now 1183 01:22:51,199 --> 01:22:55,000 with PBS, and the producers are like, well, I don't know, 1184 01:22:55,039 --> 01:22:58,359 I think we need to go beyond Washington, don't you like, don't you 1185 01:22:58,399 --> 01:23:00,640 need to extend your reach. You're gonna rune of ideas. I'm like, 1186 01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:09,760 I could do fifteen seasons worth of stuff central Washington, and they don't believe 1187 01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,399 me. They just don't believe me. I'm gonna come out there, Nick, 1188 01:23:13,199 --> 01:23:15,399 I'm gonna come out there. We're gonna go out for like a fucking 1189 01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:17,079 week, and I want to film, and I want to film a bunch 1190 01:23:17,079 --> 01:23:20,359 of stuff. I'll let you go in a little bit. Just one more 1191 01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:25,520 thing. I want to talk about this basalt, because there have been massive 1192 01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:29,840 basalt flows in the Pacific Northwest, some of them incredibly thick, like ridiculously 1193 01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:32,159 thick. You're driving through fucking canyons and you're looking at a slab of basalt 1194 01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:36,039 that's three hundred feet thick, and it's got the columnter jointing and all that. 1195 01:23:38,039 --> 01:23:42,079 One of the things. I was in northwest Nevada once, so maybe 1196 01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:45,800 the Southern organ I forget either way, you know, a few hundred miles 1197 01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:50,159 from you, but uh, and I remember coming upon we might have been 1198 01:23:50,199 --> 01:23:54,920 trespassing, but we were. We came up upon this two or three foot 1199 01:23:54,960 --> 01:24:01,159 diameter meta sequoia stump that was horizontal laid down horizontal and was I mean very 1200 01:24:01,239 --> 01:24:08,560 clearly, you know, a redwood stump um, and you know in this 1201 01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:13,840 layer of volcanic tuff of white ash and bright above it, well twenty thirty 1202 01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:16,880 feet above it was a layer of basalt probably I don't ten feet thick, 1203 01:24:17,399 --> 01:24:21,720 that had been dated at according to the rocked app that I was using, 1204 01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:26,399 they had been dated at like ten or eleven million years. But this this 1205 01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,960 log, this metasin coil log beneath it, and the layers beneath it. 1206 01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:35,800 Uh, some of it was you know, totally permineralized at petrified, but 1207 01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:41,000 some of it was had the fucking fibers were still there, like the fibers 1208 01:24:41,119 --> 01:24:45,119 of this very soft wood. They've been slightly infused with silica. They had 1209 01:24:45,159 --> 01:24:46,199 a different I have a video up on it, and I had people in 1210 01:24:46,239 --> 01:24:50,439 the video being like, you dummy, that's that's a that's a fresh redwood. 1211 01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:54,680 That's not you know, that was probably washed down the river. And 1212 01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:56,720 I was like, what in a fucking desert? Look at where I am 1213 01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:00,039 and you think there's like a four foot three foot diameter breast height redwood growing 1214 01:25:00,079 --> 01:25:03,439 anywhere near here? It gets like complete. It's a dry climate, you 1215 01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:05,960 know, and so I was thinking about that, and I was like, 1216 01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,000 this is I mean, when I saw that too, I was like, 1217 01:25:09,319 --> 01:25:13,640 I mean, this thing is basically it didn't fully permnteralize, and it was 1218 01:25:14,359 --> 01:25:19,479 basically just been entombed and preserved perfectly like it was in a in an herbarium 1219 01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:26,239 with perfect climate control and you know, dehumidifiers in a basement somewhere for twelve 1220 01:25:26,239 --> 01:25:30,159 million years. That's fucking insane. I mean, that's totally mind blowing. 1221 01:25:30,239 --> 01:25:33,000 So that that was my first experience with and then I realized, oh yeah, 1222 01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:38,319 basalt, a thick cap of basalt is probably a really good, uh 1223 01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:42,720 you know, way to preserve preserve something for that long. But let's talk 1224 01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:45,359 about this baso. Where did all this basalt come from? Why was it 1225 01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:49,479 not andesite, you know, which is obviously these different composition you get most 1226 01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:55,000 of the Pacific Northwest volcanoes are andesite, right, they're more andesite and rholite. 1227 01:25:55,279 --> 01:25:59,199 Where did this basalt come from? Well, there's different chapters. It's 1228 01:25:59,239 --> 01:26:01,920 easy to cut put them in a blender, as far as ages and also 1229 01:26:02,039 --> 01:26:10,560 chemistries and also tectonic settings. So the giant lava flows are mostly basalt, 1230 01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:15,039 which is less than fifty percent silica in the lava, and there are some 1231 01:26:15,119 --> 01:26:18,920 basaltic andesites which interestingly flowed the farthest. Then those are a little bit higher 1232 01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:21,880 in silica, maybe fifty one fifty two percent, so they were a little 1233 01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:29,520 it's counterintuitive the ones that flowed the farthest were a little stiffer or higher in 1234 01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:34,840 viscosity, So that doesn't make sense. Number one. But the basic messages 1235 01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:43,880 these giant lavas came out of cracks, and the cracks started to form about 1236 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:48,000 seventeen million years ago in eastern Oregon. Now that's a little too old, 1237 01:26:48,039 --> 01:26:53,439 about seventeen million, so it's a little too old for your sequoia if you're 1238 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:58,760 rock app was correct. But there is one particular flow called the Ginko lava 1239 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:03,039 flow that's best exposed pretty close to where I live. There's a place called 1240 01:27:03,039 --> 01:27:08,479 Ginko Petrified flo State Park, turning the littletown called Advantage on the Columbia, 1241 01:27:09,199 --> 01:27:16,640 and that particular flow has an incredible variety of petrified logs in the base of 1242 01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:20,760 the lava. I repeat Joey in the base of the lava flow, not 1243 01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:25,640 at the bottom in the in the lower portion of the lava flow. Are 1244 01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:30,000 these logs that were petrified. They're in amongst these things we call pillow basalts, 1245 01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,319 which indicate that there was water present when that lava flow came in. 1246 01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:41,079 But why why there is redwood next to sweet gum, next to cypress, 1247 01:27:41,119 --> 01:27:45,399 next to maple, next to oak, next to ginko, all in this 1248 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,000 crazy collection. And the trees don't Like I'm no botany expert, those trees 1249 01:27:49,039 --> 01:27:51,880 don't grow next to each other, So why are they all sitting next to 1250 01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:57,199 each other at the bottom of this incredible lava flow. He's just one of 1251 01:27:57,239 --> 01:28:00,520 the mysteries. And I'm not sure if that koya or that red WoT down 1252 01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:05,039 where you were is part of this story or not. But those lavas are 1253 01:28:05,319 --> 01:28:11,359 mysterious to a point. But we now know that ultimately ties back to the 1254 01:28:11,399 --> 01:28:15,840 Yellowstone hot spot where the Yellowstone Hospital, just like Craters of the Moon in 1255 01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:21,479 Idaho. Yeah, yeah, although those are very very young, as we're 1256 01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:26,600 just two thousand year old lavas, But the same idea that there's a heat 1257 01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:31,079 source, that's that's it's tied to Yellowstone. So it's just another example of 1258 01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:35,640 all this stuff happening here. But I'll tell you people that loves the geology 1259 01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:42,319 programs from up here sometimes make the rookie mistake where they don't realize how much 1260 01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:45,720 time is the elapsing between these separate stories, and so they're kind of putting 1261 01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:54,319 them together and and hijinks ensues. Yeah, it's yeah, those lava flows, 1262 01:28:54,319 --> 01:28:57,239 and how do you keep something moting for three hundred miles By the way, 1263 01:28:57,279 --> 01:29:00,680 you've got a lava flow traveling from a crack and each in Oregon and 1264 01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:04,399 getting all the way to the Oregon coast beneath those lighthouses. Just physically, 1265 01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:09,079 how does that stuff stay molten? It's a tough one to answer. There's 1266 01:29:09,079 --> 01:29:12,520 a lot of mystery with most of this stuff. Yeah. So wait, 1267 01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:15,960 so craters of the Moon, because I thought I remembered reading that that was 1268 01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:20,279 that was tied to the yellow Stone hot Spot too. Is that incorrect? 1269 01:29:21,199 --> 01:29:26,399 Well, I did my master's thesis right there actually when I went to hide 1270 01:29:26,399 --> 01:29:33,279 a host State university. So, um, there are some there's some normal 1271 01:29:33,319 --> 01:29:40,119 faults in the basin and range, so Nevada in southern Utah's basin range basin 1272 01:29:40,239 --> 01:29:43,479 range patterned. McFee, you're one of your favorite authors, wrote about it 1273 01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,920 a bunch, So one of those normal faults crosses the snaker of her plane, 1274 01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:51,600 and the lava of the snake craters of the Moon is coming up right 1275 01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:57,239 along one of those normal faults. So it's it's like the crust is already 1276 01:29:57,279 --> 01:30:00,520 cracked due to crustal extension, like an accordion opening up in southern Idaho, 1277 01:30:01,319 --> 01:30:06,399 and there is some very young, two thousand year old lava that's coming up. 1278 01:30:08,119 --> 01:30:13,920 But there's no physical tie between those craters of the Moon lavas and the 1279 01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:17,840 Yellowstone supervolcano that's, you know, a couple hours drive to the northeast of 1280 01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:23,479 there. Right. Oh god, I'm man, I'm out of my element 1281 01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:27,560 there. I just it's so. I mean again, it's the structural, 1282 01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:31,520 the structural geology aspect of this stuff, like the recent vulcanism. Trying to 1283 01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:35,720 figure out where this stuff comes from, why it's there is uh, I 1284 01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:39,119 don't know. It's so cool to think about. Well, lastly, before 1285 01:30:39,159 --> 01:30:44,520 we go, that the giant three hundred foot thick slab of basalt near Columbia 1286 01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:46,199 River Gorge. I mean, what, what what do we know about that? 1287 01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:51,399 Well, there's all sorts of cool things. Two come to mind. 1288 01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:57,039 Sometimes those giant lava flows, if you look at them on a map, 1289 01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:02,119 they look like maple syrup flowing over the kitchen table if you spell the body 1290 01:31:02,159 --> 01:31:08,119 of anti viama, and that makes perfect sense. But in some cases that 1291 01:31:08,319 --> 01:31:15,319 maple syrup starts to narrow down to just a little finger going across the kitchen 1292 01:31:15,359 --> 01:31:17,359 table, and they're like, well, that's weird. I wonder why it 1293 01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:24,199 channelized like that. Well, the answer is that lava found a river valley 1294 01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:30,399 and it started flowing just in this little pencil like pattern because it was filling 1295 01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:34,840 a river valley. So we can actually using those patterns, figure out where 1296 01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:39,640 the Snake River, where the Columbia River, where the Clearwater River, where 1297 01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:43,439 the Yakima River used to be at different snapshots in time. Because we have 1298 01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:48,800 these lava flows channeling down to these old river valleys and basically filling them up 1299 01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:53,760 with hot lava, that's a cool thing. The other cool thing is that 1300 01:31:54,399 --> 01:32:00,920 we know that the Cascade Mountains lifted high after those lava because lava flows are 1301 01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:05,640 at sea level basically to the east of the Cascades, and those same lavas 1302 01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:10,239 are three thousand feet higher than they should be up in the walls of the 1303 01:32:10,239 --> 01:32:15,439 Columbia River Gorge. Upstream of Portland, so you can can actually document tectonic 1304 01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:19,720 uplift by taking something that used to be horizontal and then lifting portions, because 1305 01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:25,720 we know these lavas didn't flow up three thousand feet of elevation. So it's 1306 01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:29,800 all a lot, a lot of this geology stuff is pretty basic. You 1307 01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:32,920 know. It doesn't have to be that hard. It's it's it's it's it's 1308 01:32:33,199 --> 01:32:40,399 logic, it's the power of observation. It's just thinking through possible scenarios. 1309 01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:45,159 But the most the most bright minds of geology are doing the most hell get 1310 01:32:45,239 --> 01:32:48,479 simple stuff like that guy Breads right right. I think it's also important too, 1311 01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:54,039 like as we had mentioned before, like the correlation between silica content, 1312 01:32:54,359 --> 01:32:58,399 you know, the composition of of a magma of an extrusive igness rock and 1313 01:32:58,439 --> 01:33:01,960 how and how it flows the core lation between silica content and viscosity or flow. 1314 01:33:02,039 --> 01:33:05,800 Does it flow like water, which should be the more basalt end of 1315 01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:10,560 the spectrum, or does it flow more like like a thick tar or molasses 1316 01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:14,680 like uh, like you know, andesite or rhyolite and stuff. And of 1317 01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:17,039 course how does that change how explosive a volcano is? You know, if 1318 01:33:17,359 --> 01:33:21,119 it's a basaltic volcano. It's not. You're not getting these as you know, 1319 01:33:21,279 --> 01:33:25,960 big explosive eruptions that are you know, got the mushroom cloud it's if. 1320 01:33:26,159 --> 01:33:29,079 But if it's rhyolite and that stuff builds up and it doesn't flow that 1321 01:33:29,119 --> 01:33:31,239 well, the gas builds up, you get a big boom, and it's 1322 01:33:31,239 --> 01:33:34,479 a more dangerous volcano. And so that's why it's always it's I mean, 1323 01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:39,479 it's so important to even you know, notice the difference, you know, 1324 01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,079 even just for lay people. Is it what type of what type of mac 1325 01:33:42,159 --> 01:33:45,039 what type of rock is this? It's extrusive igness. Is it more andesite 1326 01:33:45,079 --> 01:33:46,960 or rhyolite or is it basalt? Okay, well this must have been a 1327 01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:51,479 more gentle eruption. It flowed more, um, it flowed easily, more 1328 01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:55,600 easily, you know that kind of thing. So that's why I mean, 1329 01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:57,720 for me, I think about that, you know, if I'm driving through 1330 01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:00,920 a canyon like God, some of those those basalt those are so cool too. 1331 01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:05,000 There's a there's an endemic for Celia endemic plant that grows that only grows 1332 01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:10,239 and some of those with salt flows in Washington. Yeah, yeah, but 1333 01:34:10,279 --> 01:34:14,000 other than that not you don't get you don't get too much endemism with volcanics. 1334 01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:17,600 Well, um, thanks a lot, and uh, maybe this was 1335 01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:21,720 longer than you planned, but I really appreciate it, and I'm sure others 1336 01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:26,000 will too. I think we had a good conversation, So thanks a lot 1337 01:34:26,039 --> 01:34:30,000 for making ten. I really enjoyed talking with you, Joey, And thank 1338 01:34:30,039 --> 01:34:31,600 you for the invitation. This is a real thrill for me. Yeah, 1339 01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,920 man. Yeah, and uh as soon as I uh, I gotta get 1340 01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:36,760 out there next spring, as soon as I have time. Yeah, we 1341 01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:41,119 got to do it. So you're always welcome either way, all right, 1342 01:34:41,159 --> 01:34:44,079 brother, thanks a lot. Nick, appreciate it. Thank you, Joey 1343 01:34:44,199 --> 01:34:45,039 Goode. Think it