1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:05,679 How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy? Become 2 00:00:05,679 --> 00:00:09,839 a patron For just five dollars a month, you get access to a private 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,439 RSS feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month will 4 00:00:14,439 --> 00:00:19,039 get you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign up now at 5 00:00:19,039 --> 00:00:23,800 Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey, Carl and Richard here with your 6 00:00:23,879 --> 00:00:29,199 twenty twenty four NDC schedule. We'll be at as many NDC conferences as possible 7 00:00:29,239 --> 00:00:33,520 this year, and you should consider attending no matter what. Ndcoslo is happening 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,840 June tenth through the fourteenth. Get your tickets at ndcoslo dot com. The 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:44,000 Copenhagen Developers Festival happens August twenty sixth through the thirtieth. Early bird discount ends 10 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:51,679 April twenty sixth. Tickets at Cphdevfest dot com. Ndcporto is happening October fourteenth 11 00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:56,840 through the eighteenth. The early bird discount ends June fourteenth. Tickets at Ndcporto 12 00:00:57,039 --> 00:01:12,159 dot com. We'll see you there, we hope. Hey, get down 13 00:01:12,239 --> 00:01:15,280 rock and roll. It's doott need Rocks. I'm Carl Franklin and I'm Richard 14 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,040 Campbell and Scott hunters with us. We'll bring him in in a minute. 15 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,079 But how's everything going up in the great Western North? Uh? You know 16 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,719 it's springtime and springtime is good. We're putting in vegetable gardens. You know. 17 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,680 It's now that we're living up here full time, you see things differently. 18 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,920 Do you have as many bears there that are going to come and eat 19 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,319 your vegetables? No, a lot fewer. The issue here will be deer. 20 00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:38,959 Yeah, so we actually had to put deer fencing around the garden. 21 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,840 Oh dear, But we'll find out if you don't find out it works until 22 00:01:42,879 --> 00:01:47,680 you're actually growing things and they're eating it anyway, so we'll find out soon 23 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,840 enough. But season one, feed the deer. Season two, yeah, 24 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,480 keep the deer away. Feed the deer less. Feed. But you know 25 00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:57,719 we were talking about it, she said, I said, this will be 26 00:01:57,719 --> 00:02:00,480 at arms race. We'll see what they we've brought. We put out our 27 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:02,799 first salvo. Let's see what they come with. We'll figure it out from 28 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:06,760 there. So here, the weather has a made up its mind. In 29 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:12,319 Connecticut, the couple days ago it was like in the thirties overnight and today 30 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,360 it's gonna be eighty. Oh man, it's gonna be eighty. It's like 31 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,879 summertime, just like that. Yeah, next week it'll be raining and cold 32 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:24,840 again. All right, Well, let's dive right into this thing with a 33 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:36,199 little thing that I call him that I don't know framework all Right, dude, 34 00:02:36,199 --> 00:02:38,560 what do you got? Okay? Well, I mentioned this maybe a 35 00:02:38,599 --> 00:02:45,360 week ago or two, but there's a new Blazer master class happening in September 36 00:02:45,479 --> 00:02:49,400 in Tuscany, very dice. And the reason I wanted to mention it with 37 00:02:49,479 --> 00:02:53,759 a real URL here, which is Codnecastle dot com or since it's eighteen ninety 38 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:59,080 seven one eight nine seven dot popped at me, is that there's an early 39 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:04,520 bird discount. You can save five hundred bucks if you sign up by next 40 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,520 week. May fifteenth is the deadline for the early bird. Okay. But 41 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:10,680 what's cool about it is if you go there and you watch the video. 42 00:03:10,719 --> 00:03:16,560 I actually made a video from last year, and I think that brings the 43 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:23,960 experience home because I talked to the people and I took their pictures that they 44 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:29,280 took as tourists out in Tuscany, and you know, did a little ken 45 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:35,719 Burn's treatment to some Tuscan music, you know, to some Neapolitan songs in 46 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:42,759 Pavaratti and some Puccini anyway, So it's really great. Basically, it's code 47 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,120 in a castle and you spend a week in a castle with your significant other, 48 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,599 like in a castle bedroom, having meals and on the grounds and seeing 49 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:55,560 Tuscany. And the first four hours of the day were in class nine to 50 00:03:55,599 --> 00:04:00,360 one and then everybody meets up and the rest of the day is all sight 51 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,919 seeing and tourism, and the plus ones or the significant others, they get 52 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:09,000 to spend the morning doing things that you know, we don't do nice. 53 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,520 You know, they go out and the cheese shops, the olive oil shops, 54 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,639 the beaches, all that stuff, and they do morning activities that are 55 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:20,160 strictly for them. It's just a great thing if you've modernized the immersive event. 56 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,560 Carl, I think it's pretty cool. Yeah, And I got to 57 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,480 say I didn't do this. It wasn't my idea. It was Larry Lustig's 58 00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:31,639 idea, who's been a longtime listener of dot net rocks and also a keto 59 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,600 guy right right, and he and his friend Marco, who lives in New 60 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:41,720 York now but grew up in Tuscany and is from Rome. They put this 61 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,720 whole thing together, and kudos to them because you know, the traincation has 62 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:49,680 begun. Yeah, the train cation revolution. It's a good and it's a 63 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,360 good idea to just mix the two together. And Scott Hunter almost came last 64 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:59,519 year. I did almost come last year, and maybe this year will be 65 00:04:59,519 --> 00:05:00,680 a better year me to have a chance to come. It just comes up 66 00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:03,920 if I have too much travel booked up, like, yeah, I've currently 67 00:05:03,959 --> 00:05:09,759 overbooked myself right now, and I need to unoverbook myself right Maybe a week 68 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,600 in Tuscany, just the ticket to relax a little bit. Maybe if you're 69 00:05:13,639 --> 00:05:15,959 there, carl as my wife can want me to stay for a month. 70 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:23,360 That's the Yeah, that's tell me. The dellside, Well, this castle 71 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,519 is something that you just can't book like a hotel. You have to have 72 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,399 a group. And that's why it's so special is that we get a group 73 00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:33,600 together and then because of that we own the castle, like where there's nobody 74 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:36,920 else there but our group. Nice and so it's not it's not anything that 75 00:05:36,959 --> 00:05:40,920 you could experience any other way anyway, cool man, that's what I got. 76 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,720 Who's talking to us today? Richard grabbed the comment of the show eighteen 77 00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:46,439 eighty nine, the one we did with one Magnus Martinsen. You know them. 78 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,199 Yeah, when we were talking about Azure. Lots of people like this 79 00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:51,600 conversation. It was a very popular show. Yeah, you know by any 80 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,319 standards and code Pooter that's Richard Rakimo has been on the show as well in 81 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,839 a regular comment or had this great and he was at Coden the Castle last 82 00:05:59,879 --> 00:06:02,399 year and he was a go to the gasle he was. I love his 83 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:05,879 comment, it's four am. What a good show. You know, I 84 00:06:05,879 --> 00:06:12,079 think your perception was distorted at that time. Ridge were pretty late. For 85 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,600 most organization, cloud migration looks like utopia when it's really a minefield. Why 86 00:06:16,959 --> 00:06:23,120 perspective. As Magnus points out, organizations have skilled operations which traditionally manage shared 87 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:29,800 physical resources one server or one black plane and many applications. So cloud migration 88 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,279 is a migration of that's meaning the backplane in the infrastructure, rather than migration 89 00:06:33,319 --> 00:06:38,279 of the applications to a dynamic scalele resource. Wa we did. Dynamic scale 90 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,120 is where it operations can fall short in cloud From a business perspective, the 91 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,879 resources they require as services not servers. Good line, love it, good 92 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:53,240 line man. This is the change in perspective resources the businesses require and putting 93 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,480 applications on those resources that will scale in and out based on business demand using 94 00:06:57,639 --> 00:07:02,000 time frames of minutes rather than I got done that. He nailed it. 95 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,759 It's great. It's a great point. It's like, listen, this is 96 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,920 not we're If you're just thinking about dev when you're moving to cloud, you're 97 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,079 missing out. You need your operations folks on board. It's a change in 98 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,319 the way they think too. It will affect the way we build software. 99 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:17,920 It's why we move up the services because then you get that scalability. But 100 00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:23,759 you know, I've been thinking a lot of lately about the software angle of 101 00:07:24,279 --> 00:07:28,720 not just get it there, get to the new platform, but then really 102 00:07:28,759 --> 00:07:31,720 taking advantage of the platform. But I think there're two logical steps. First, 103 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,800 you got to get there. Then there is an optimization that has to 104 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,759 take place to to really take advantage of what you've got. And part of 105 00:07:38,759 --> 00:07:43,920 that what we save money, reduce impact, optimize for better scale, for 106 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,600 new business opportunities, like all of those things come, but you do have 107 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:47,920 to get there. Ye, Rich, I know you got a copy of 108 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,079 music code by, but I got to call it out as always. If 109 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,120 you'd like a copy of music Code buy, I write a comment on the 110 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,680 website at dot at rocks dot com or on the facebooks we publish every show 111 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,920 there and every reading on the show. We'll send you copy of music Cobey 112 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,480 and you could follow us on the facebooks and on Twitter of course, or 113 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,360 x or whatever the hell we're calling it these days. But cool kids are 114 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:11,759 hanging out. I'm masddon, I'm at Carl Franklin at tech Hub dot social, 115 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:13,759 and I'm Rich Campbell at mass do dot social. Send us a twot 116 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,439 and that's a really great way to get a hold of us because there's less 117 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,720 noise for the time being, and that brings us to you. Scott Scott 118 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,279 Hunter is the VP of Product for Azure Developer Experience. He builds all the 119 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:31,560 dot net tools for Azure and used to be in charge of all the dot 120 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,639 net and that's what more can you say? All the dot net? He 121 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,840 was all the dot net. Now he's a little more focused on Azure and 122 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:43,000 dot net tools for Azure. Welcome back, Scott, thanks for having me 123 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,039 back, guys. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, been too long 124 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,919 friend, and certainly you know this all this ties together with I'm glad you're 125 00:08:50,039 --> 00:08:54,639 there helping us be better at Cloud because it's hard. I think about the 126 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,639 move we made onto the Internet, you know, from wind forms to web 127 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,279 form, and then pretty quickly as you get familiar with that, you're like, 128 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,960 hey, you know, there's a better way to do web stuff. 129 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,000 And we went to MBC and others. Like I kind of feel like we're 130 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,480 in the same place right now with Cloud. We got there, Now we've 131 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,919 got to get better at it. We we It feels like we're at Cloud 132 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,759 one on one to me, if I think, if I think of it 133 00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:20,000 from a tools perspective, it really feels like we're at Cloud one on one. 134 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:26,360 And I'll kind of explain way back in the day when I was in 135 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:31,720 the asps net team and we you know, Scott got three the VP of 136 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,559 Cloud and AI Microsoft. He left devdiv and became the e VP of that 137 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,879 tech. We moved over there and our job was to go build tools to 138 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,120 help you as a dot net developer be able to get your application up into 139 00:09:46,159 --> 00:09:50,799 Azure. And I think of the tools he built and there they're good tools. 140 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,080 I mean, you can you know some people laugh, it's the rightly 141 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:58,360 published tools I got. I got some data just a week ago that that 142 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,240 that tools used eight hundred thousand times a month. Wow. Correct. Now, 143 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,840 of course that's not for production. That's going to be for just doing 144 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,200 developer interloops. It doesn't matter. Yeah, exactly. So you know when 145 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,039 people say, you know, don't, don't, don't let your friends right 146 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:18,080 click publish, that's bs the reality is as a developer, that's exactly what 147 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,480 you're going to do, because if you go through your operations team, your 148 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:24,879 IT operations team, it's going to be ten or fifteen or twenty minutes every 149 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:26,240 time you make a change for them to go run their pipeline to get your 150 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:30,559 code up there. But I said, we're kind of Azure one oh one 151 00:10:30,639 --> 00:10:35,879 or Cloud one oh one because right click publish it publishes what a single application? 152 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,960 Yeah, how many cloud apps today do we think on? You know, 153 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:43,440 I ask the callers how many power of listeners? How many people do 154 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,399 we think are actually building an app? It's just got I just have a 155 00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:50,320 web front end. I don't have a web back end. I don't have 156 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,960 any of the other pieces of the that of that of that pie right. 157 00:10:54,639 --> 00:10:56,559 And so that's why I say we're kind of a cloud one oh one is 158 00:10:56,639 --> 00:11:01,039 we're great for if you want to work on a single app location, you 159 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,600 know, and I can parlay this in any ways. Uh, you know, 160 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,720 if you're in VS code and you have a front end and a back 161 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,840 end, what are you likely to do? I'm going to run two VS 162 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,799 codes. I'm gonna run one for the front end, one for the back 163 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:16,440 end. I'm going to start them both. You know, that's it's kind 164 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,279 of klutzy if you're This is why I like studio. We have the concept 165 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:26,919 of a solution and having multiple projects. But even studios klutzy. I mean 166 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,240 in studio, I mean, how many people know you can likely k on 167 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,200 a solution and say managed startup projects and then you can select multi and then 168 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:41,159 you know, set the order of the project start and all those important super 169 00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:43,840 important. But I don't think those tools are that's not the best developer experience. 170 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,000 That if you run that experience, you have to choose which ones you 171 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:50,320 want to debug. You know you can you can decide to start them all 172 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,320 with the debugger or start some with the debugger out, and then and to 173 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:56,480 change that you've got to go into the goofy dialogue box and change stuff. 174 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,559 It's just I don't think that experience is a great experience, and so it's 175 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,399 it's been. And I've said for a while. Visual studio is great for 176 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:07,679 single apps, right, vis code is great for single apps, but we 177 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,919 need to build great multi app, multi app tools because that's how customers are 178 00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:16,399 actually building you know, cloud apps today and should be building them, right 179 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,399 like this idea of separate services. Of course, we've evolved as developers knowing 180 00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:24,759 what we have in these tools and knowing how to be more efficient. Like 181 00:12:24,799 --> 00:12:31,159 I can remember the day the light bulb went off, and anytime because what 182 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,759 I was doing was anytime I had to change to any like big file or 183 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:39,559 any JSON file where data was kept or anything like that, I would publish 184 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,480 a new version everything, you know, kick everybody off the site. And 185 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:46,639 then I discovered you know, file zilla FTP, and I could just go 186 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,840 in there and copy over some new image files or some new static files or 187 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:56,840 whatever, and everything would just work, you know, Like I see this 188 00:12:56,039 --> 00:13:01,159 as not only an evolution of tools, but in evolution of how we use 189 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,960 those tools and how we get better as programmers. So let's kind of talk 190 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,879 about what I think the future is for this kind of space. And I'm 191 00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:13,360 going to start with the tool that my team built and we shifted. It 192 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:18,480 built last year, so that's May of twenty twenty three. We built a 193 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:24,480 tool called the Azure Developer CLI. And the genesis of this tool was, 194 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:31,240 I'll be very frank, you know, we have lots of Dotinant customers using 195 00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:33,960 Azure and they are the majority, and we wanted, you know, in 196 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,799 my current team, we want to make sure that we can get more Java 197 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:43,039 developers, more Python developers, more No developers. I mean, the reality 198 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,240 is, I don't think it's a either or rule anymore. I believe most 199 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,000 companies are using a variety of technologies and so nobody builds something entirely in one 200 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,720 stack. That's the old, classic twenty year old Microsoft customer. I do 201 00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:58,039 believe we all have, you know, if you're doing some AI, you 202 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,080 might have some Python. If you're doing some front end web you might have 203 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:05,519 you know, some some JavaScript or some Blazer. But we built this tool 204 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:11,120 because we had various samples that we had created for Azure and on one on 205 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,080 one of these days, we were doing a user study where we actually get 206 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,039 on a phone call. And we got on a phone call with a bunch 207 00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:20,320 of Python developers and said, hey, here's this Python tutorial for getting your 208 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,399 flask gap up into Azure and uh, and your goal is to get this 209 00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:26,480 up, you know, before we get off the call. So it's it's 210 00:14:26,559 --> 00:14:31,200 it's a quick call. It's thirty minutes. At the thirty minute mark, 211 00:14:31,039 --> 00:14:35,279 not a single customer has actually published their Python app to Azure. Wow. 212 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:43,399 In most cases, where they're at is they're installing stuff. Still, that 213 00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:48,240 sounds like my Python experience too. They weren't installing Python, Richard. They 214 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:54,559 were Actually, we have this thing called a zy it's the Azure CLI and 215 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,120 it's the way that you would, you know, manually provision Azure from the 216 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,759 command line. At the time we have fixed this install. At the time, 217 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:07,799 the installed for that was not very fast. Many of these Python customers 218 00:15:07,799 --> 00:15:11,679 were using py charm, you know, they were not using vs code. 219 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,200 And what do our docs say. Our docs say install vs code. So 220 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,240 here they are going, I have to use install a different developer tool. 221 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,279 I've got to install this asy thing. I didn't have to authenticate all these 222 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,720 things together. I've got install the Python extension for vs code, and we're 223 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:31,360 like, wow, this is not good. We're thirty minutes in and nothing's 224 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:35,600 going on. And so we built a tool to address that exact problem, 225 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:41,840 which is like what you do is you with AZD. That's the Asure Developer 226 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,720 c ALI. It's a single lexy which means it does not required MSI installer 227 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,159 or anything like that. You can actually X copy or just copy the file 228 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,559 to your computer and you only need the one file to do all this kind 229 00:15:54,559 --> 00:15:58,919 of stuff. And templates can be marked with some special folders. There's a 230 00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:03,960 older called INFRA and that would contain the BICEP, which is the that's the 231 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,720 definition language for for azure. Azure is actually built on top of something called 232 00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:11,000 ARM, and then by step is an abstraction on top of ARM to make 233 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,879 ARM easier to use. But you've got this by step in there. And 234 00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:17,679 then literally now I can take the rate the repo, I can clone it, 235 00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:21,639 and I can say a z D in it, give it a name, 236 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,639 I can do a z D up. Tell it what you know data 237 00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:30,679 center? I want to use region, I should say and subscription And then 238 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:33,759 the whole processes takes off and no longer am I running you know, command 239 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,559 line scripts. I'm not installing command line stuff. You get that great experience. 240 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:41,639 And so we we built this experience, and uh, we haven't got 241 00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:47,200 as far as I want in it, but uh, a real change happened 242 00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:51,840 about six months ago. The dot net team is working on dot net Aspire. 243 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,600 That's their cloud native framework on top of dot Net, and uh, 244 00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,559 you know, Aspire is super exciting to me as as a dot net What 245 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:07,359 I'd like to tell people is we built all this great capability into dot net 246 00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:11,880 ASP dot net Core years ago. We have the ability to do an HDP 247 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,400 client factory and you can actually use something like poly to set resilience rules. 248 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:22,880 On top of that, we built tech for ef core lets you do retrit 249 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,680 policies. When you're in the cloud you might need to be more resilient. 250 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,759 We added open telemetry APIs to dot net a couple of years ago. But 251 00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:36,400 all this stuff I just described, we didn't turn any of it on by 252 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:41,000 default. And so you know, if you happen to watch a video of 253 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:45,119 a Glen Condron and me in dot core three days, you would have seen 254 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,079 a show the HP resiliency stuff. But if you missed any of those things, 255 00:17:49,079 --> 00:17:52,039 you don't know how to do this, and so we kind of learned 256 00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:56,000 that as you're if you're a dot net developer, lots of challenges come when 257 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,200 you start trying to run your wrap in the cloud and we don't really help 258 00:17:59,279 --> 00:18:03,839 you. And so the the Aspire framework uh is literally, hey, let's 259 00:18:03,839 --> 00:18:08,319 give you a paved path with all the right things. And so where this 260 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:14,599 gets interesting is is the Aspire folks obviously want to make their tech. You 261 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,319 know, great, if you could publish an a spire application it's going to 262 00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:21,680 be a multi part application. Uh, you can, you can publish that 263 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,160 application to a cloud. And uh, we all got together and had a 264 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,000 conversation. It's like, hey, do this the visual studio team build this? 265 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,240 Uh? Do we use the A z D tech that my team is 266 00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:37,359 built? Uh? Do they build something new? And we kind of all 267 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,640 came to an agreement we should all just centralize on one one piece of tech 268 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,880 that actually does this, and it already supported you know, multi project applications 269 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:52,599 already a c D and so we've built a z D to understand a dotted 270 00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:56,680 Spire application. Yeah, so let's if you don't if people don't know what 271 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:02,240 Aspire is you know, I was mentioning before I thought our tools, our 272 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:07,240 visual studio tools are kind of clumsy. When you create an a spire application 273 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:12,200 or you add Aspire to an existing ASP dot net core project, what happens 274 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:19,920 is we create an app host project and we create a service default project in 275 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:25,079 your in your solution. So if you've got your you know classic you know, 276 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:34,400 Razor page or Blaser application or web api, we add this new app 277 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,880 host and it's kind of the magic. It's the orchestrator. And so the 278 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,160 idea is the app host you codify. Inside that, there's a builder like 279 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:47,400 we've we've had in the as net cortech forever. And with the builder, 280 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,119 you can build or you can add a project. You can add multiple projects. 281 00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:56,720 When you control that five we run that project and it's that's project jobs 282 00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:00,839 to start all the subprojects that depend on it. That's why it's the orchestrator, 283 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,880 right. And so imagine you've got a front end, you got a 284 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,200 back end. You can actually you can do a with reference your front end. 285 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,839 You say, with reference to the front end, that tells the tech 286 00:20:11,519 --> 00:20:17,160 order is important start this before you start that. And uh, that's kind 287 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,759 of the genesis of a of a of a dot net at Aspire project. 288 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,599 And by the way, everything's configured for you to fall into the pit of 289 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,359 success. Yes you don't. You don't have to worry about how do I 290 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,519 do that h T t P client factory thing? Again, I can't remember 291 00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:37,880 that? Yes, so yes, so there's that. There's that default project 292 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,559 that is added to your solution as well, and we inject a call to 293 00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:44,279 that in each of your projects. You would add a spire orchestration to and 294 00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:45,960 so what that if you if you if you just trace the code of that, 295 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,480 that's going to turn open telemetry on, which means you're going to have 296 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:52,960 proper telemetry. It's going to try to turn the retry stuff on. Uh, 297 00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:56,720 so your APIs and stuff like that. Your HP clients are going to 298 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,960 actually be resilient. Uh it's going to turn on service discovery, which is 299 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,920 my favorite feature. And when I say we're kind of cloud one oh one 300 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,319 when it comes to our rightly published tech, service discovery is a big piece 301 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:12,480 of this. And let me just quickly get kind of go through each of 302 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:18,039 those things. Open telemetry, you know, we'd love your if you're running 303 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:19,279 an app in the cloud, you'd like to have telemetry, right, you'd 304 00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:23,279 like to see how it's running, where the crashes are, how long things 305 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:27,759 take, what's the order of execution. We've had those APIs and gotten it 306 00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:32,000 for a while, but they're not on by default. The resiliency we've already 307 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,880 talked about. I want to have a retry policy, so if my API 308 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,440 has a problem, it tries again. Because I'll be honest with you, 309 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,640 in a big cloud network is kind of virtualized, and it does, you 310 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,079 know, have its moments. They things don't always work the first time, 311 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,839 but if you just try a little while later, you'll probably be all right, 312 00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:57,519 probably okay, And then finally you know, we've all done this. 313 00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:02,480 If you've if you've if you've been using ESPN net core, and you build 314 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,759 a multipart project, what do you do. You You go into a folder, 315 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,599 you open up the loss settings, you find out what you know, 316 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,440 local host port you're on, You hard code the port into your other application, 317 00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:15,640 and then when you when you push this thing to the cloud, you 318 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,599 have to go find some way to go fix all those to map to the 319 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,319 real things in the cloud. So that service discovery, yeah, service discovery 320 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,839 is, and so service discovery in an Aspire application. In that app host, 321 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:32,319 as you add a project and project or service or whatever, you give 322 00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:36,559 them all names, and then when you reference those from your applications, you 323 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,720 use the names, not the actual low level you know, local host and 324 00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:44,920 port numbers and all that kind of stuff, all the individual components. And 325 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,519 that's important. Yeah, that's important because locally we can do all the magic 326 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:52,880 for you, and then on the cloud push we can also change those from 327 00:22:53,000 --> 00:23:00,759 being local host colon X y z to as your container app dot whatever or 328 00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:04,359 whatever terminology the cloud thing that you're going to go published to is. And 329 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,880 so suddenly I've got a great control that F five experience. Locally, I 330 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,400 can actually publish the app and it still runs in the cloud. And then 331 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,359 that's where my tool chain comes into play. So what your next step is 332 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,200 is to basically take that application and I'm gonna I'm gonna go the low level 333 00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:26,960 way. First, I would go to command line and in the folder of 334 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,880 the rootfolder of the application, or I should say applications if it's a solution 335 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,400 with multiple projects, and I would type a z D in it. And 336 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,960 when I type that, it's going to ask me for a name for my 337 00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:42,519 thing. My resource name. Well, first off, it's going to scan, 338 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,759 So it's going to say do you want me to scan? If you 339 00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:48,680 press return, it's going to scan the folder. It's going to go find, 340 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,039 hey, I see an Aspire thing here. It's going to say, 341 00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:55,680 I found an Aspire application. What name would you like to use for this? 342 00:23:55,799 --> 00:24:00,599 As I publish it, you give it a name and you're done. 343 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:03,720 And what it's going to do is it's going to create an Azure dot yamal 344 00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:11,079 which kind of describes what's going on and it It doesn't do much more than 345 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,839 that at this point, but what you can do at that point you can 346 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,440 say acd up and then it's going to go ask you what is your asker 347 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,000 subscription. It's going to say what region do you want this application to run 348 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,359 in? And once you answer those questions, it's going to start building this 349 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,640 application and publishing it to the cloud for you. Wow, now there's a 350 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:36,880 couple of cool things here in this Spire case. Typically you're going to publish 351 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,400 this to containers in the cloud. Well, if I'm a container dev, 352 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,119 does that mean oh crap, I need to know what doctor files are, 353 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,920 I need to know what helm charts are. Yeah, Cubernetes and all that 354 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,519 stuff doing to have doctor Desktop installed. And the answer is no, no, 355 00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:56,960 and no, we can actually build the entire application because in dot net 356 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,400 seven we added the ability to actually build contains without having any of those types 357 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,480 of tools on your on your on your machine. So it's not just that 358 00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,200 you're you're using those tools under the hood and hiding them from us. You're 359 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,880 actually not even using them. We're not even using them, and and that's 360 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,480 that's a cool thing. Is like one of the things a very So this 361 00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:18,160 doesn't going to AKS, so you can go to AKS as well. Okay, 362 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,279 and once again we're just building, but it's not by default, we're 363 00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,759 just building containers. And so you know what, once you build a container 364 00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:26,079 in the cloud world, what you typically do is you're going to publish your 365 00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:30,319 container to a container registry, right, and then the service of your choice, 366 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,160 whether it's something like as You Container Apps or it's akas, it's going 367 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,640 to have an action where it's going to pull that image and boot that image 368 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,359 up. And so the build aspect of it is actually kind of irrelevant for 369 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,920 the most part. For one point, oh of Aspire, which is going 370 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,039 to be out in the build time frame. It's going to ilga it built 371 00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:59,039 twenty twenty four. We default uh these applications to Azure container apps, but 372 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,880 I should I should step back and say with preview six, our friends at 373 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,640 AWS have built their tool chain for this as well, and so this tech 374 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,359 is not you know, we're not trying to make us fire be a Azure 375 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,759 only thing. It's meant to be a pluggable ecosystem where you can plug the 376 00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:19,960 tools in for whoever you are, So if you're Google or AWS, this 377 00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:23,839 all works there as well. The a WS folks have already written some of 378 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,559 the techs so they can you can publish these to a WS and we have 379 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,680 some tools where you can actually publish our thing to as your kubernety service as 380 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,839 well, if that's if that's your choice. But by default today it's going 381 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,400 to do container wrapps. And part of that is I would always say, 382 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,400 let's get one of these things really good right first, before we go and 383 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,720 try to do like multiple options. But you know, at azd up it's 384 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,119 going to go provision all the resources, get your wrapp running in the cloud. 385 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,119 The service discovery is going to mean you don't have to worry about changing 386 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,799 the ports and the IP addresses of the individual applications. All thats going to 387 00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:04,480 work. And uh, you know, I said a lot of coli here. 388 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,039 You can also go to visual Studio. You can write, click on 389 00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:12,400 that app, post project, and you can select publish. And what's going 390 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,319 to happen is behind the scenes, it's going to do the same stepside is 391 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,119 described. It's going to ask you a couple of questions. It's going to 392 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,839 then actually run a z D for you, and a CD actually creates some 393 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,839 assets. It's going to create those assets and make sure you never see them, 394 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,000 so it kind of hides the whole thing. I mean, arguably that 395 00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:33,039 means you get to deploy an Inspire app to your local container store too on 396 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,119 prem Yes you could. Yeah, Like it's just they just it's just containers. 397 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,799 Run them where you want, run them where you want. But I'm 398 00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:47,680 excited that we built this tool. And you know, you you folks have 399 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,680 been along for the whole dot ne core journey, and we said with dot 400 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,279 core, we're going to start with command line because everybody has command line, 401 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,000 uh, and so I'm excited that it with with Aspire and a z D, 402 00:27:57,599 --> 00:28:00,519 we start with command line which means if I'm a VS code developer, 403 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,880 I've got a multi part project, I can just azd up that thing. 404 00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:08,599 If I'm in visual studio, I can obviously the reight click publish and we're 405 00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:11,480 going to you know, up that thing. And you know, unlike what 406 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,720 we said before, this is not the single rec click published where I can 407 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,240 only up, you know, do my front end manually or my back end. 408 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,519 This takes the entire app. We have that that e shop, which 409 00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:22,839 is one of the examples we've had in dot net for a long time. 410 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:29,000 That's got like eight containers and databases and rabbit mqs and a bunch of stuff 411 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:33,119 like that, and you can azd up that thing and it'll put that whole 412 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,359 app in the cloud. And so it feels like we've graduated from single app 413 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,000 or our single piece of an app to now we can do your whole app 414 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:44,519 to proper multi app. I mean, this is what we used to spend 415 00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:48,279 a lot of time with when we're building these distributed apps, building CICD pipelines 416 00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:52,920 for them. Yes, was making sure all those different pieces got their updates 417 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,640 and rolled out in the right order and so forth. Like dude, that 418 00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:59,559 was a lot of yam, a lot of yam. They had to craft 419 00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:06,200 your my favorite language, and guys, I got to interrupt for one moment 420 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,799 for this is a very important message, and we're back. It's not that 421 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,839 Rocks. I'm Richard campbelllet's Carl Franklin. Hey, talking to our friend Scott 422 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,799 Hunter about I mean, really, I love this thinking that all cloud apps 423 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:26,079 are multiple apps, and most of our tools are oriented on single apps. 424 00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:30,799 So how do we get to better tooling that thinks multi app And also when 425 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:33,039 it comes to cloud like what you're talking with aspires, there is a natural 426 00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:37,359 hierarchy. If it's an Aspire app, there is an orchestrator that's where you 427 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,119 begin on a lot of stuff. And so the CLI tools and all the 428 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,079 tooling when they see an Aspire app go oh, let's talk to the orchestrator 429 00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:48,119 first, be the first needs to be deployed, and then pulling each of 430 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:52,960 the services like it's not an amorphous blob. There is a distinct set of 431 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:56,960 layers here. I laugh because I cannot remember the project. Maybe you do, 432 00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:00,759 Richard, there was a project like this in the early Azure days. 433 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,559 Somebody that's that's listening to this podcast will actually reply to us and tell us 434 00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,240 what it was. But there was I remember back back in early early Azure 435 00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:17,759 days, we had some visual tool where you actually had a whole XML file 436 00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:22,960 that described your application, right, And I'm going to laugh because that was 437 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,720 too complicated. I think this is a much better version of that. I 438 00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:27,400 forget what it's called. But we and we talked. We've talked about this 439 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,440 for years, right exactly, that there's going to be this tool where you're 440 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,640 going to draw out all these bits and set up and it's going to generate 441 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,279 the orchestration for you. As much as I've complained about YAML, XML is 442 00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:45,519 worse. Yep, true, I much rather have YAML than XM to deal 443 00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:48,519 with. True enough, I will tell you that as well. It's it's 444 00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:53,839 uh, XML just hurts. It just hurts. And it feels like, 445 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,000 I mean, all these these these file formats are a little rough because I 446 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,680 feel like if I make an error in any of them there they're not forgiving 447 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,880 of errors. Right. But but XML, as we added schema and all 448 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,599 these other things to it, it just felt like it has became this huge 449 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,839 pile of complicated tech. But this whole deployment pipeline stuff and writing all that 450 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,000 Yamel, it's still super bespoke, like every app you end up crafting your 451 00:31:18,039 --> 00:31:21,279 own. At best, it's cut and paste. Like I feel like we're 452 00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:26,839 feeling around with stuff like BICEP and Poloomy, feeling around for reusable chunks of 453 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,240 deployment management. I just haven't seen a good solution yet. I don't think 454 00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:33,519 we have a good solution. I'll be honest with you. Even inside of 455 00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:38,920 Microsoft. You know, when first first started doing Modern Nature, we had 456 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:45,200 ARM, you know, which is this description Jason Fiola describes, you know, 457 00:31:45,319 --> 00:31:47,880 all the app and the problem is, you know, like any of 458 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,559 us on this call, if I want an app service, I'm like, 459 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,799 well, I want an app service with four CPUs and thirty two gigs a 460 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,240 RAM and X amount of storage. But if I, if I, if 461 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,799 I define that definition and ARM, I'm going to start talking about the networking 462 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,599 layers and all this stuff that is just you know, that's beyond me. 463 00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:13,160 I just if I go to the Azure portal, I just say I want 464 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,720 an app service with this much stuff in it in this area, and what 465 00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:20,240 it does is it kind of creates all the other stuff for me behind the 466 00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:24,599 scenes and so BICEP is a little better. But one of the things that 467 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:30,960 we're exploring is can we build what we call BISEP modules that actually have a 468 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:36,440 bunch of smart defaults in them so I don't have to describe that for us. 469 00:32:36,839 --> 00:32:39,799 Yes, and so I will tell you my team thinks about this all 470 00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:44,000 the time. We have a workstream looking at this today. It's like, 471 00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:46,400 we don't want to build, you know, another abstraction on top of BICEP. 472 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,880 We've already got two abstractions, ARM and BICEP. Let's not build another 473 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,000 one. But is there a way to go at smart default And if you're 474 00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:57,240 a customer, if you have the Azure portal and create a resource, you 475 00:32:57,279 --> 00:33:00,359 did get a bunch of smart defaults. You didn't answer eighty five question to 476 00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:04,200 build an app service, you answered four or five. If you run asy 477 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,640 the Azure command line tool. Once again, it's the same kind of thing. 478 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,319 You don't specify every single thing. Uh, there's a bunch of smart 479 00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:14,599 defaults there, and we'd like to find a way to bring that to the 480 00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:19,480 BICEP thing, which means humans could actually write and understand by SEP. That's 481 00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:22,319 a that's a goal that we all have. Yeah, well, and I'm 482 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,079 when I'm wearing my enterprise architect hat, it's like reuse BICEP code. We've 483 00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:30,759 written, Hey, we've you know, put a bunch of policies into the 484 00:33:30,839 --> 00:33:34,279 right way to do this, and it upsets me that we're cut and pasting 485 00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:37,920 it between projects. You know. I'm over in Belgium right now, and 486 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,200 on the plane over here, my colleague Paul wrote six hundred lines of BICEP 487 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:46,039 on the plane and I'm like, I couldn't do that. I could write 488 00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:49,480 sixer lines of C sharp, but I can't write six under lines of bytep. 489 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,960 It would mine would It would not work? Yeah? Do I want 490 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,279 to be good at that? Right? Like the area lies the problem? 491 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,279 Like if you're at a place where you've gotten good at that, Like, 492 00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:00,920 what do you do with your time? You charge lots of money Richard, 493 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,480 Yeah, I guess so, you know, because most people don't want to 494 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,599 do it, and the one person who knows how to do it is very 495 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,920 busy. Right. But you know, back to the tooling that we talked 496 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,679 about for Aspire, I think there's two other aspects that are pretty cool. 497 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:21,920 Is with AZD if you want in the case of these dot net projects. 498 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,599 These are spire projects. You don't have any BICEP. There's no biceps sitting 499 00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:27,960 out there for you to see. You do that AZD up, we actually 500 00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:30,840 generate BICEP behind the scenes. We run it and we kind of get rid 501 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,760 of it and then goes away, which you know, this is the same 502 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,800 stuff we started doing with databases, where we would generate you, here's the 503 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,320 state of your database, here's the state you want to get to. The 504 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,480 script to do the transformation is generated for you, and then it's gone. 505 00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:45,320 But we do know some folks are going to care about that stuff, and 506 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,480 so we did we did put tooling in for that as well. You can 507 00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:52,360 run AZD infrasynth right, and what that tells it is to synthesize the infrastructure. 508 00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:57,119 At which point what will happen in your Aspire project is you'll get a 509 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,599 infra folder I n f R A and inside of that you'll get the BYSEP 510 00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:06,719 that we're going to run to publish your app to Azure. This is the 511 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,679 same thing we did with dba's when they were anxious about this automation. It's 512 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,840 like, I will let you validate each one of these scripts and he could, 513 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,079 and after a while they just get tired of reading it because it's better 514 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:17,000 code than they could write. It's good, it's good code. I was 515 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:23,400 actually I'm using an alpha feature of Aspire right now that I think it'll probably 516 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:29,639 be available with the general release of Aspire later this month. And in my 517 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,280 case, because I have to run this in an early access data center, 518 00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,480 I actually have to generate the bi SEP and then I need to go change 519 00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:43,079 the region of one of the components because all the components that I need I 520 00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:47,199 need from my Inspire app can't run in that special data center, and so 521 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,679 I need to go flich one of them to west US, and so I 522 00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:53,360 just have to go search for log analytics and then where it says location, 523 00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:58,119 I just put hard code that to west US right and bang. So there 524 00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:00,239 are cases and valid reasons you might want to go edit this stuff. Yeah, 525 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,519 I mean, is that the right way to go about it? Or 526 00:36:02,559 --> 00:36:06,360 is it? When you do the generation, say, and when you have 527 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,920 to decide this make it this like this seems like a parameter in that call 528 00:36:10,519 --> 00:36:14,639 it technically is a parameter. Today, when you when you filled in the 529 00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:16,960 location you wanted your app to be in, you actually use the parameter. 530 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,920 But in my case, I had just had to choose an early access preview 531 00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:25,199 area which doesn't have all the services, and so in my case, I 532 00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:29,639 had to make a bad choice and then I had to go fix my my 533 00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:34,440 my bad choice right just because it was a very specific case. Yeah, 534 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,000 I'm running alphabets of even the services, and that's why in my case it's 535 00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:42,599 But the point is you didn't have to hand craft all this stuff. You 536 00:36:42,599 --> 00:36:45,559 still cold use generated code, edit it, then run it exactly. That's 537 00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:49,440 my point is if you if you want, you know, BICEP that you 538 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,320 want to hand off to somebody that so they can see the actual bits of 539 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,400 how this work, then it's all there for you as well. The cool 540 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,440 thing about Aspire is, you know, let's say I started off with two 541 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,760 projects. I've gotten my web front end, my web back end, and 542 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,199 I decide I want to add a red as cash. The cool thing is 543 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,679 I can also go run that ACD infracynth again and we'll look at the project 544 00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:14,840 folder again and we'll see, oh, you added something new, and that 545 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,639 new resource will just show up in there. And so you can rerun the 546 00:37:16,679 --> 00:37:24,159 tools as you add things or add projects to your solution and they update the 547 00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:28,679 final piece that I think is really exciting for me. On the Inspire cases, 548 00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:34,239 let's talk about we just talked about a cash or a Postgres database or 549 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,440 a SQL database. What do all these things have in common? Connection strings. 550 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,639 Connection strings suck as well because well, if you're doing local development, 551 00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:45,800 you probably have a connection string to something on your local machine, and then 552 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,280 when you push this thing to the cloud, you need a connection string to 553 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,639 something in the cloud. And Aspire supports this mechanism as well. So just 554 00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:59,559 like we talked about service discovery, when I write an Aspire application, I 555 00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:04,679 don't ever see a connection string anywhere ever if I don't want to. So 556 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,519 in the case of I can go back to that you know, that app 557 00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:10,320 host project, and I could say, hey, I don't have a project. 558 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,599 I have a reddest cash, and then I can keep that red ast 559 00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:20,400 cash as available, and I can say my web front end has a has 560 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,159 a with reference to that reddest cash, which then tells the Spire make sure 561 00:38:24,159 --> 00:38:29,840 you boot the API up and the reddest cash up first. But even better 562 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,000 to add that reddest cash. I went to my app host, I write 563 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,079 clicked, and I said add an Aspire component and it gives you all of 564 00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:40,119 the cloudy you know, back end kind of component you can add there. 565 00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:46,360 I add that that same with reference also takes the connection string information and injects 566 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,639 it into the web front end project. And so when I'm in the web 567 00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:54,000 front end project, I write click and I add an Aspire component there, 568 00:38:55,079 --> 00:39:00,679 and I would select like I could do output cash with Rettis, I could 569 00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:06,719 just do stack overflow rettus. I could either of those things. But when 570 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,039 I add them, I don't have to add the connection string. All I 571 00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:14,119 do is when I when I when I create the API there, I just 572 00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:16,239 give it the name. And if I called my cash cash in the app 573 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,239 host, I call it cash in my front end. And once again, 574 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,639 Aspire is doing all the magic to share the connection strings across those boundaries, 575 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,840 and so I never see a connection string. And even better, I can 576 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:35,039 embed it in my code by access exactly nowhere in your code. You have 577 00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,559 this dangerous connection string embedding that you're going to check into source control, get 578 00:39:38,559 --> 00:39:44,679 yourself in trouble. If you're in public repos, it's just all gone and 579 00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:47,639 well, because in the end it is plumbing. So just make it for 580 00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:52,519 me. Make it for you exactly. And so I've had more fun the 581 00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:57,320 last couple of months as we built the tooling for Aspire and using Aspire and 582 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,400 just seeing my apps and I'm like, you know, I don't see it. 583 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,400 I don't see courts, I don't see IP addresses, I don't see 584 00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:06,800 connection strings. And you think this is trivial, But all of us building 585 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,320 aspnt net core projects have opened up the launch settings dot Jason file and copy 586 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:16,039 and pasted these things around your application. Or worse, you probably put a 587 00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:21,000 connection string in source code somewhere and you said, I'm not going to check 588 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:22,119 it in, but you did. I mean, we have you know, 589 00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:27,239 we have user secrets, which is a mechanism in ASPNT core to hide these 590 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,880 things. But I'm in Microsoft. We have tools that scan our repos and 591 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,119 tell us when we make mistakes like this, and they go off more than 592 00:40:36,159 --> 00:40:37,880 you would expect. Now I've had I've had get hub barf back at me 593 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,880 and say, this looks like an extra string. I'm not checking this in 594 00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:46,079 the way that gets even cooler is if you're in the Azure space. In 595 00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:51,639 many cases, one of our one of our goals in Azure right now it's 596 00:40:51,679 --> 00:40:57,760 been there forever. We're doubling down it right now. Is you shouldn't even 597 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:02,159 have a connection string. We have a ability and Azure called managed identity and 598 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,159 the let me let me explain the idea behind managed identity. Uh. In 599 00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:10,800 the idea of managed identity, I created managed identity resource, and I tell 600 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:19,440 my web front end that via not via code, via either the portal or 601 00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:23,360 via command line tools, I say that the web front end can talk to 602 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:32,519 the reddest cash and so there's nothing to steal because we've just codified or or 603 00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:37,119 we've used infrastructure to say these two things can talk to each other. You'd 604 00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:39,360 have to break my log in. Yeah you can't even Yeah you can't. 605 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,719 If you, if you, if you even got to the portal, there 606 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,760 is no connection strength, there is no there's nothing. All you do is 607 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:51,440 is reference to the redest database and we just make that happen. And so, 608 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:53,119 uh, that's the point we really want to get to in the Azure 609 00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:55,519 space. We're going to get to a place where there is no thing to 610 00:41:55,559 --> 00:41:59,920 steal. There is nothing that could be checked in because they just don't ex 611 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,039 exist. One step above key vault. Yes, you know, key vault 612 00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:08,079 is our solution if you have to have a connection string right, and that 613 00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:13,920 this is one of the coolest aspects of the Azure components for Aspire is if 614 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:19,480 the service that you're using supports managed identity, when you publish that app to 615 00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:24,480 Azure, the Aspire published tech will actually create the managed identity, set the 616 00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:30,000 roles correctly, the permissions correctly for you on that managed identity and there is 617 00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:36,800 no there is no connection string at all. If the service you're using does 618 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,920 not support managed identity yet and I don't think there'll be meaning services by end 619 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,679 of this year that don't support managed identity, we will then go and take 620 00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:47,480 that connection string, shove it into a key vault, and create the key 621 00:42:47,559 --> 00:42:51,800 vault for you. And you know, once again, as a developer, 622 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,039 I don't have to think about that no, and you can't get it wrong 623 00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:59,239 either. Aspire is abstracted all that away from me, and so you know, 624 00:42:59,559 --> 00:43:05,280 I I'll kind of end on. We don't think this Aspire tech is 625 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,559 necessarily just a dot net thing, you know, it's it's a Chris Harris 626 00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:15,079 on my team works on Python and he has used the same Aspire host project 627 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,519 for some of his Python applications. So he can get some of these same 628 00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:23,679 capabilities of being able to have the tech, you know, build the infrastructure, 629 00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:27,559 set up all security the right way, and do all those types of 630 00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:30,079 things. And so I do think you'll see us. You know, this 631 00:43:30,119 --> 00:43:32,639 is this is we're past one on one, maybe we're at two oh one 632 00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:36,440 now at least for dot net. But we want to make sure that this 633 00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:42,639 multi project run, this ability to create the resources unpublished and have resources locally, 634 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:45,480 all of that. I would love to find ways to make that work 635 00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:50,960 for all developers in all languages, because, as we said, very likely 636 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,719 I've got a view front end talking to a dot net back end. People 637 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,639 mix all these technologies today already, and so you know, Aspire needs to 638 00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:02,880 be more than just dot net island. It needs to be a technology that 639 00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:07,360 runs everywhere. And you might have heard we talked about it probably on a 640 00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:08,880 podcast. In the past. There was something called Project Tie that was the 641 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:15,400 predecessor to this. Project Tie was to dot netty. The stuff we're talking 642 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,639 about now, like the multi project Runner. That's a that's a thing called 643 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,920 DCP. That tech was actually built independent of a spire on purpose. So 644 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,639 we could actually take all this tech and make it work for all languages. 645 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,400 A c D obviously was built. You know, it's not it was not. 646 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,000 It's not a dot net thing. It's built for all languages, and 647 00:44:35,039 --> 00:44:37,280 so the building blocks that were building. Uh, hopefully we'll let us take 648 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,360 this experience and make it, make it cross language, you know, a 649 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,559 cross platform. If there's somebody out there listening thinking that they're not quite convinced 650 00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:52,320 that, you know, using dot net a spy or won't pigeonhole them and 651 00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:59,119 give them sort of these high level abstractions over things they can't manage or understand. 652 00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:04,840 Can you that person? Yeah? I I The reality is you know, 653 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,440 if you if you look at a Aspire project, when I say a 654 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:13,480 couple of things we talked about the defaults. Those defaults are codified and so 655 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,199 there's nothing. What I would say, the biggest thing is when when people 656 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,599 first see Aspire, the first thing is they, oh, this is magic. 657 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,320 No, actually it's not. You know, there's a file that contains 658 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,199 all the defaults. And what's cool is we make that a project that you 659 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,920 own. You can change those defaults, you can add your own new defaults, 660 00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:31,920 you can remove our defaults if you don't like those things. If you 661 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,760 don't want to use our service discovery, take it out. If you go 662 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,039 look at how service discovery actually works behind the scenes, there's nothing magic there. 663 00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:44,719 The cool thing is when I demo this, I would normally run the 664 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,480 app and I would go in and show the environment variables to the front end, 665 00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:49,639 and inside the environment variables to the front end, what you're going to 666 00:45:49,679 --> 00:45:54,679 find is we injected the same local host port number stuff as an environment variable, 667 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,280 and all we're doing is actually reading that environment variable and using that in 668 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,679 place of a hard coded string. And what the host is is the thing 669 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,000 in checking this, and so what you as you dive deeper into this, 670 00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:09,760 what you're going to find is there's nothing locking you into anything here at all. 671 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,960 In fact, crazily enough, if you want to take an Aspire app 672 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,840 and you just have your own container, that's another feature of the host. 673 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,480 I can go point it at any random container image and I can give it 674 00:46:21,519 --> 00:46:23,679 the port numbers and all the stuff required to talk to that, and we 675 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,920 can run that. In fact, that's how we do some of the JavaScript 676 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,760 stuff. We actually can run and we can run no JS projects. So 677 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:37,880 would one think of this as more like the ultimate visual studio template for creating 678 00:46:37,039 --> 00:46:40,599 an application. I think so in the cloud, right, I mean, 679 00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:45,119 yeah, yeah, I mean a template that goes beyond your desktop and and 680 00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:49,199 solves all the multi app problems that we have today. And they said, 681 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,320 the multi app problems are way more than just a dot Net problem. There 682 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,159 everything. But as you what I would tell somebody is go read the Aspire 683 00:46:57,199 --> 00:47:00,920 documentation and you're going to find out. You know, we learned this when 684 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,280 we built asknet core back in the day. One of the one of the 685 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,920 negatives' web forms was we had a whole bunch of automatic stuff that was on 686 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,800 by default. And that's also probably why a spire took so long to build. 687 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,800 Is we still still have a hangover from you know that. But notice 688 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,400 that I said, those defaults are actually in a project that you're referencing, 689 00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:24,840 you own it. The idea is, you know, you can change you 690 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,519 know, unlike web forms where or I guess webforms is the right term for 691 00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:32,920 that. There was not a good way to change any of these defaults and 692 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,880 web forms. You could change some of them in webconfigure, you could change 693 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,559 modules and stuff like that, but you really had to know what you were 694 00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:44,880 doing. And I think this is just it takes the askinet core mechanism of 695 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:51,599 codifying the whole pipeline and just continues that. It gives you control over the 696 00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:55,000 what's and the details as data. Yeah, yeah, I love it. 697 00:47:55,199 --> 00:47:58,679 And by the way, it won't be perfect and Willship a v two. 698 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,280 Yeah, it's going to continue to iterate. The infrastructure is going to change 699 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:06,039 and all this is going to get better. But one of the things I'm 700 00:48:06,039 --> 00:48:08,639 excited about in this is this means scaling by default, like you're in a 701 00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:15,719 structural naturally scale. This means the the the idea of securing each individual component, 702 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,840 limiting the number of parts that are open, like limiting the attack surface. 703 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,519 Because we're writing this as a manifest rather than doing it ourselves, and 704 00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:25,800 you're generating against it. You can close all that stuff off. You can 705 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,519 lock it down as hard as it can be locked. And I don't have 706 00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:32,719 to write it like that's the main thing is most importantly right, I don't 707 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:37,920 get this stuff right, or you don't have to go read through six thousand 708 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,920 pages of documentation to figure out this stuff's even there. I mean, that's 709 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,079 the biggin way is I'm not gonna do not do it. We know if 710 00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:47,920 our customers don't do it too. And that's that's that's why I think these 711 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,559 types of things are super important. We have a person whose name is Uli, 712 00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:54,880 and I don't think I'm over sharing. He's the person that if you 713 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,119 have, you know, if you're a big customer and you're having an agurve 714 00:48:58,119 --> 00:49:02,760 problem, you might call him and maybe he parachutes into your organization helps you 715 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,159 solve your problem. He gave us a bunch of crap and ASPI net Core. 716 00:49:07,559 --> 00:49:10,719 He was like, He's like, you have all the features, but 717 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,159 they're not onned by default, and I have to just go to these customers 718 00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:16,559 and turn the features on by default. You know, we also we skipped 719 00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:22,239 over heavily. I think we're almost I don't know. We won't have time 720 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,800 to go very deep into this, but you know, a really cool part 721 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:30,679 of the Aspire tech as well is those defaults turn on all the open telemetry 722 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,280 work, right, which means now when you run this application, you get 723 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,480 a dashboard, and the dashboard is going to show you all the components. 724 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,159 It's going to show you your crashes, that's going to show you the traces 725 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:44,480 in a structured way. You can search for them. You know today you 726 00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:47,360 would basically go to the cloud and look at logs, and this this gives 727 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:52,519 you a much better visualization. You can see your call path from the front 728 00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:54,119 end to the back end of the database. You can see how long each 729 00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:58,719 of those steps took, and so I think the telemetary aspect of this is 730 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,199 super cool. One of the demos I've been showing that this is not public 731 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:07,000 yetuntil we ga Aspire later this month, is being able to run that dashboard 732 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,880 in the cloud as well. So you'll be able to take the same Aspire 733 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,719 dashboard you can run locally doing interlop development, and when you publish that to 734 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,599 the cloud, you're going to see that same dashboard running in the cloud. 735 00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:23,719 Now, it won't be perfect because the dashboard doesn't have storage, which means 736 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:28,400 it's going to show you more real time stuff. If you want full storage, 737 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,920 you're going to use something like Azro Monitor, but that's going to hook 738 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,280 up to the same open telemetry hooks that we're using for the dashboard, and 739 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,239 so you know, I laugh. When we were looking at ASPN at core, 740 00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:44,239 we recognized in aspn net web forms we never had any telemetry at all. 741 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,400 We fixed that with ASPN at core and then with Aspire we fix that 742 00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:52,159 even more by wiring it up by default. All right, real quick, 743 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:58,000 last question on PREM. I know it's not a question, but yeah, 744 00:50:58,199 --> 00:51:00,719 it is a spire cloud only? Is it as are only? Can I 745 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,519 do this kind of stuff on prem? You can do it on Prem. 746 00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:07,440 I have to think harder about that. I mean, one of the things 747 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,960 that as a developer when I'm running on Prem is and you might have already 748 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,920 seen this, Carl, in many cases, if I want to run a 749 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:20,639 postgress or a Rabbit MQ or a mysequel or even a SQL server, when 750 00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:23,239 you run your app locally on your machine, it can run those technologies and 751 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:29,800 containers. Ye. You can also decide in your app post that when you 752 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,280 reference these things, you can give it connection strings. Those connection streams could 753 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,440 be to local resources. Yeah, I mean all this stuff is open source. 754 00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:38,599 I'd have to just build a provisioning mechanism that, when it's running, 755 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:43,480 say, generate this stuff on my servers rather than the ones that are going 756 00:51:43,519 --> 00:51:45,599 to generate it on the cloud. Right, you wouldn't use AZD to publish 757 00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:51,360 this because an't isn't it is octopus deploy or something like that. Yes, 758 00:51:51,679 --> 00:51:54,079 yeah, well cool. But I can imagine somebody's going to build up this 759 00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:57,719 code base because they do want to deploy it on prem or some part of 760 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,800 it on prem. Yeah, you know, there's no reason. It's just 761 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,159 containers. There's no voodoo here, Containers run anywhere. Good stuff, Scott, 762 00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:07,920 but I'm afraid we're gonna have to leave it there. Thank you. 763 00:52:07,079 --> 00:52:10,480 It's always great talking to you. I'm glad we got to catch up with 764 00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:14,280 you, and I guess it's dinner time where you are now, so yes, 765 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,079 enjoy Thanks folks, all right, we'll talk to you next time on 766 00:52:17,199 --> 00:52:42,679 dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and 767 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:47,079 produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video and post production facility 768 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,320 located physically in New London, Connecticut, and of course in the cloud online 769 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:58,079 at pwop dot com. Visit our website at d O T N E T 770 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,199 R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads, mobile apps, 771 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,280 comments, and access to the full archives going back to show number one, 772 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,559 recorded in September two thousand and two. And make sure you check out 773 00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:15,440 our sponsors. They keep us in business. Now, go write some code 774 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:25,039 see you next time you got R Medlevans. The