1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,240 This is Beer in Front, part of the Oddpods Media Network. Sometimes the 2 00:00:08,279 --> 00:00:11,839 beer in front of you is the best one yet. I'll talk about some 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:17,480 old school beers that maybe you've forgotten about, some new beers that have the 4 00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:22,160 potential to be a classic. I'll also talk to various people around the beer 5 00:00:22,199 --> 00:00:28,280 world and get their stories all about beer. That's Beer in Front and it's 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:37,880 coming up now. Welcome to episode one hundred and sixty five of Beer in 7 00:00:38,119 --> 00:00:43,359 Front. I'm your host, Dave's Alatoris and Beer in Front is a proud 8 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:48,119 member of the Oddpods Media Network. I have a good show this week. 9 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:53,079 I'm talking to Chris Pisney. He's at the Cisser Own program, and we're 10 00:00:53,119 --> 00:00:59,640 going to discuss the program itself, what it takes to become different levels of 11 00:00:59,679 --> 00:01:04,959 Sister her Own, how that's going to make each person a better beer drinker 12 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:11,439 as well as you're going to learn a lot about beer or serving beer, 13 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,400 the different styles in beer. That was a lot of fun, so that's 14 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,400 going to come up in a little bit. I'd like to thank the people 15 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:23,200 that support the show over on Patreon. If you're interested, you could head 16 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:30,519 over to patreon dot com. Slash beer in front. You don't have to 17 00:01:30,599 --> 00:01:34,920 subscribe. You can just if you're listening to the show. I'm assuming you 18 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,719 subscribe, but if you don't hit that subscribe button, give the show five 19 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:45,680 stars, follow me over on YouTube and TikTok and all that and like those 20 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:51,599 videos. That helps the algorithm make the show more popular. So please, 21 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,799 whatever you could do, I do appreciate it. Last week, Rod Jay 22 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,760 from Rod Jay's Beer Ventures was in town. I met him over at Hop 23 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,599 Butcher for a couple of beers. A couple other people were there as well, 24 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,840 so you heard Rod J before on the show a few times. It 25 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:13,759 was nice to meet the man in person. A lot of fun hanging out 26 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:16,800 with him. We're gonna have to get back together again soon for some more 27 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:22,960 podcast appearances. But it was a lot of fun meeting rod Ja in person 28 00:02:23,319 --> 00:02:28,159 over at Hop Butcher. Couple things I want to talk about off the beer 29 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:34,319 subject. One, if you live near me in the North Center Lincoln Square 30 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:40,240 area of Chicago, you might have noticed it's loud when there's a concert at 31 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:46,000 Wrigley Field. A couple weeks ago, the Dead and Company were there and 32 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:52,120 I was outside grilling and trucking came on and it was so loud. I 33 00:02:52,159 --> 00:02:58,319 thought like a neighbor was playing, you know music outside. It was loud, 34 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,400 crystal clear. Well it wasn't a neighbor. It was The Dead and 35 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:07,280 Company from Wrigley Field. And I'm thinking maybe it's like the wind or something, 36 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,560 because in all the years I've lived here, I've only heard one show 37 00:03:13,199 --> 00:03:15,759 that was Guns N' Roses a couple of years ago, and that was loud. 38 00:03:15,879 --> 00:03:20,759 But this not only was loud, it was crystal clear. So I'm 39 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,080 thinking, all right, it's an aberration. The other night Fallout Boy was 40 00:03:24,199 --> 00:03:30,680 here, they were super loud. I even made a comment on Twitter about 41 00:03:30,719 --> 00:03:34,080 it, because I'm about two and a half to three miles away from Wrigley 42 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,439 Field, so it's not like I lived down the street. I'm far away, 43 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,719 and I put a thing on Twitter. I asked a bunch of other 44 00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:46,439 people. Are The Chicago Sun Times actually ran with one of my tweets about 45 00:03:46,479 --> 00:03:52,159 it, that how loud it was. Now. Country music singer Morgan Wallen 46 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:58,280 was in town a couple of nights afterwards, and I'll out walking Moira and 47 00:03:58,439 --> 00:04:02,280 it's once again crystal clear. So I don't know what's going on. With 48 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,280 Wrigley, or if you live near me, I know I have some listeners 49 00:04:05,319 --> 00:04:11,360 that are from the neighborhood. That's loud. I'm glad I didn't buy Springsteen 50 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,960 tickets one because they're a left arm man who has that kind of money. 51 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:20,279 But also I could just sit outside and listen to the show if it's going 52 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,040 to be that crystal clear. All right, that's enough of me rambling on 53 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,959 about non beer stuff, so let's kick off this episode of Beer in Front. 54 00:04:33,199 --> 00:04:38,800 In Beer and Beverage news, the state of Illinois is told restaurants they 55 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:45,000 can continue to offer cocktails to go for another five years. This law was 56 00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:50,439 enabled during the pandemic to help bars and restaurants stay afloat, and the bill 57 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:56,160 has been or the law has been extended for another five years. I'm a 58 00:04:56,199 --> 00:05:01,279 proud union member union steward. I read over on Brewbound that the Brewing Union 59 00:05:01,319 --> 00:05:11,519 of Georgia has filed an unfair labor practices suit against Creature Comforts for retaliation firing. 60 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:15,360 So keep an eye out on that. But if that's true, that's 61 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:20,040 not cool. Have plans for November third and fourth, The Illinois Craft Brewers 62 00:05:20,079 --> 00:05:26,720 Guild announced the dates for Fauxbab So that's going to be November third and fourth. 63 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:32,439 Check out the Illinois craft Brewers Guild website for more information. I talked 64 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,000 about it on the show a couple of weeks ago that Sons of Kent. 65 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:42,639 That's a brewery out in Canada. They released a new beer of Fergie Jenkins 66 00:05:42,759 --> 00:05:47,279 Classic Pilsner. Well, Rob from the Internet Talks Beer sent me over a 67 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:51,759 can. I'm going to have that on an upcoming show. I don't know. 68 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,160 I'm torn because they can't look so good. I almost wanted to display 69 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,879 it, but I am going to have the beer and I'll save the can. 70 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:05,839 Great Lakes out of Cleveland they're coming out with a new hard Seltzer Rocket 71 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:11,720 Pop, which is supposed to be like the Bomb Pops. I'm a huge 72 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:17,240 Bomb Pop fan. I had a Bombpop inspired Seltzer from four Hands I think 73 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,360 a couple of years ago thanks to the Seltzer King of Chicago, Steve. 74 00:06:21,959 --> 00:06:28,120 I'm looking forward to this one because I love Bombpops and I love Great Lake, 75 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,240 so I'm gonna have to check this one out. There's been some really 76 00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:35,199 cool collaboration beers that have come out in the last five years or so. 77 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:43,399 Probably the biggest has been Black as Beautiful that came out from Weathered Souls out 78 00:06:43,439 --> 00:06:48,920 in twenty twenty that supported equality and social justice reform. They're coming out with 79 00:06:48,959 --> 00:06:54,360 the new one of volume two in this time. The proceeds are going to 80 00:06:54,439 --> 00:07:00,839 benefit the National Black Brewers Association. So keep a lookout for Black is Beautiful. 81 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,360 If it's anything like the beers that came out in twenty twenty, you're 82 00:07:05,399 --> 00:07:11,480 going to want to grab one from every brewery that collaborates. I thought they 83 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:15,439 were all fantastic, So keep an eye out for the new Black is Beautiful 84 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:24,680 from Weathered Souls. All right, welcome back. The ciserone program, for 85 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,560 those that aren't aware, is similar to the Somalia program, but this is 86 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,560 for beer. There are four levels from Certified Beer Server to Master Cicerone. 87 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:40,040 Coming on now to let us know more is Chris Disney. He's the program 88 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:45,120 director of the cerone certification program. Chris, good morning, Thanks so much 89 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,000 for coming on today. Good morning, thanks for having me. How did 90 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:57,680 the ciscerone program come about? That's a great question. So Cicerone was founded 91 00:07:57,959 --> 00:08:03,839 in two thousand and seven by Ray Daniels. Some of your listeners might recognize 92 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:09,519 that name because Ray has written several popular books on the topic of beer. 93 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:16,480 But Ray also spent many years working for the Brewers Association in the United States, 94 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:20,319 and as part of his work at the BA, he would travel the 95 00:08:20,439 --> 00:08:26,920 United States visiting breweries talking to brewers, and he saw how much work that 96 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:33,840 brewers were putting into making the best beer possible. And at the end of 97 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,720 the day, he would go out to restaurants and bars that were well known 98 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:41,279 for the beer that they served, and he would find it sometimes during these 99 00:08:41,399 --> 00:08:46,799 visits the beer didn't taste like the beer that left the brewery, and sometimes 100 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,840 the beer the servers didn't really know as much about the beer that they were 101 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:58,600 trying to sell Ray as they could have. So he thought, there has 102 00:08:58,639 --> 00:09:05,360 to be a way to incentivize those beer professionals who were making the beer drinking 103 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:11,559 experience, whether the beer drinker likes a light American lagger or a pastry stout, 104 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,840 making that experience as great as the beer that left the brewery. So 105 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:24,360 he solicited feedback from people in the industry, whether they were wholesalers or retailers 106 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:31,240 or brewery operators, about the types of knowledge that people in the business of 107 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:37,799 selling and serving beer should have and with that information gave birth to the concept 108 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:46,320 of cicerone. So our mission is to empower beer professionals around the world through 109 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:54,840 the development, development and recognition of beer skill and knowledge. And as you 110 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:03,399 mentioned at the beginning, we'd primarily do this through professional certification exams. So 111 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:09,120 you mentioned certified Beer Server, Certified cicerone, Advanced cerone, and Master cerone. 112 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:18,200 So that first level certified beer server targets those frontline servers who are maybe 113 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:24,480 new to the beer industry and they are interacting with customers. Maybe those customers 114 00:10:24,519 --> 00:10:28,039 know a lot about beer or don't know anything about beer, and maybe the 115 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:33,759 server doesn't drink at all, maybe they're not old enough to drink, but 116 00:10:33,879 --> 00:10:41,360 their job is to sell beer. So we test those candidates on the fundamentals 117 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:46,360 of beer service, things as basic as pouring beer that looks great, making 118 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,360 sure that it's in a beer clean glass that looks great to the consumer. 119 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:56,039 Things like talking about flavor, talking about flavors in beer styles in a way 120 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:03,799 that's easily relatable to any customer at comes before then. And so that exam 121 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,120 is a sixty question exam thirty minutes to complete. It's all online, all 122 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,399 multiple choice. More than one hundred and fifty thousand people around the world have 123 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:20,120 passed that exam. Cicerone gets a little bit more complicated. So the idea 124 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:26,559 behind Certified cicerone is that target candidate is somebody who is managing a beverage program 125 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,240 as a beverage manager at a restaurant, a beverage director at a bar, 126 00:11:31,879 --> 00:11:37,360 something like that, or they are responsible for selling a portfolio of different beer 127 00:11:37,399 --> 00:11:46,000 brands, either a wholesaler or a brewery sales team. That exam consists of 128 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:50,639 a three hour written portion, a twelve sample tasting exam, so people have 129 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:58,960 to participate in in person in locations around the world, and a short demonstration. 130 00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:05,240 And the reason we start including a tasting component at Certified cisterone is because 131 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:13,559 beverage professionals need to be able to make quality control decisions in the field based 132 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,320 on what's going on in the beer. People can't carry a lab around with 133 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:24,360 them and test for different flavored compounds, So that tasting exam consists of twelve 134 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,799 samples. The first floor four samples will say Okay, does this sample have 135 00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:33,960 diacidal acid, aldehyde, acetic acid? You tell me, and then there's 136 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,360 a style discrimination panel where we'll say is this beer a Belgian double or a 137 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:45,679 Doppelbock? You tell me, and then we'll have four different beer styles and 138 00:12:45,759 --> 00:12:52,200 we'll ask the candidate whether the sample has signs of mishandling after it has left 139 00:12:52,240 --> 00:13:01,639 the brewery. So it's very practical and actionable type of assessing knowledge. At 140 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:05,559 the Certified systerone level, we get a lot more heavily into things like the 141 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:13,919 brewing process, draft system operation, troubleshooting beer styles of course, and we 142 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:20,919 start introducing concepts of beer and food pairing advances around. There are about one 143 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,679 hundred and seventy people who have passed that exam, as opposed to four thousand 144 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:31,279 who have passed Certified cyseron That consists of a six hour written portion, two 145 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:39,559 oral exams, and four different tasting panels. And then Master Cystone only twenty 146 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,559 two people around the world have passed that exam, and that is a two 147 00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:52,480 day exam, consists of sixteen essay questions, a dozen oral exam with industry 148 00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:58,879 experts that we fly in from all over the country, and eight different tasting 149 00:13:58,919 --> 00:14:03,720 panels. So it's really the ultimate test of beer expertise. So with one 150 00:14:03,879 --> 00:14:09,320 oral examiner. You might be planning a Beard dinner with a James Beard Award 151 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:15,440 winning chef. Another exercise, you might be talking to a master brewer about 152 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,320 what's going on in a brewery, or designing a draft system or troubleshooting a 153 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:26,759 draft system. So those are the four levels of certification in the program. 154 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:31,080 I would imagine that for anyone that wants to become part of the industry, 155 00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:37,519 whether it's working at a brewery, tap room to anything else, that having 156 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:46,960 the ciscerone certification on your resume would give that person a leg up over most 157 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:52,480 other candidates. Yep. I've gone to LinkedIn and typed in ciscerond in jobs 158 00:14:52,480 --> 00:15:01,320 and there are plenty of positions where they say either ciserone certification preferred or they'll 159 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,879 say you need to become a certified beer server within thirty days of employment. 160 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,159 So yeah, it's it's well integrated into the industry at this point. Are 161 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:18,480 there like breweries or restaurants, bars that provide this for their people, Like 162 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:24,480 do they have all of the employees go through just the basic level one to 163 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,399 get some knowledge or is that not happening yet? That's happening. Yeah, 164 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,799 it's happening. Yeah. I mean the first one that comes to minds Boston 165 00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:39,360 Beer Company is nearly every employee gets certified beer server. It probably depends on 166 00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:43,759 your functional role in the organization that the legal team might not have to be 167 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,080 certified beer servers. But yeah, Boston Beer lots of different organizations do it. 168 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:54,440 There's there's They're too numerous to count at this point. Like for myself, 169 00:15:54,799 --> 00:16:00,320 I'm just an average beer drinker. I'm not part of the industry tree, 170 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,480 And for the last year now, I keep going back and forth like 171 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:11,039 should I do this for somebody that's not part of the beer industry, How 172 00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:15,519 do you think that would help them appreciate beer more? Yeah? I think, 173 00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:18,200 well, there's two ways I can answer this question. I think, 174 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:25,799 at its core, if you like beer and that's the extent of your relationship 175 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:30,000 with beer, the concept of just sis around shouldn't be top of mine at 176 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:36,320 all. We believe at its core a beer should be a simple pleasure for 177 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:40,399 the consumer. They should get a beer. That's when they order a beer. 178 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,759 They should get a beer that's fresh, looks great, and a glass, 179 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,279 clean glass, and it takes great and maybe they'll have another one. 180 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,039 And that's really good for the beer industry is when people, the consumers are 181 00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:55,000 having a second beer. But if you're listening to this podcast, you might 182 00:16:55,039 --> 00:17:00,039 be a little bit more nerdy about beer than the average consumer. So whether 183 00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:07,519 it's pursuing certification or not, we do offer great ways for people to learn 184 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,440 more about beer. So we um we just updated re platformed our Beer Savvy 185 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:18,759 E learning program earlier or last month, and it is a fantastic way and 186 00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:23,359 that and that that is designed to help people pass the Certified Beer Server Exam, 187 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:30,640 but it's a great way to learn about the origins of beer styles and 188 00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:37,319 beer flavor and where it comes from, and basic draft system troubleshooting. So 189 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,799 if you have a kegerator, and I talk to a lot of beer drinkers 190 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:45,880 who have a kegerator or serve keg beers, and they're always asking me about 191 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,359 why is my beer foamy and things like that. So this this, these 192 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:56,559 types of resources can handle can teach people about how to address those problems that 193 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,759 they're having. So I would say, if even if you don't want to 194 00:17:59,759 --> 00:18:03,680 take the Certified Beer Server Exam, check out Beer Savvy because it's a fun 195 00:18:03,759 --> 00:18:08,160 way to learn more about beer and you'll probably even the nerdiest person will probably 196 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,200 learn a few things that they never knew about beer with that program. But 197 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,160 I started from a homebrewing background, and there are probably a few home brewers 198 00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:23,640 who are listening right now. And as I mentioned, we have sensory components 199 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:29,799 to the exam. If you don't even want to be certified, we offer 200 00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:34,480 all kinds of flavor training opportunities. We just had an off flavor course in 201 00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:40,519 Chicago at Cicerone HQ last week. We do it around the country. We 202 00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:45,079 even do it in Australia and South America and in Europe. And we also 203 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:52,000 offer off flavor kits that people can use at home. We have a single 204 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,000 user off flavored kit. We have off flavor kits where multiple people can get 205 00:18:56,039 --> 00:19:02,079 together and learn about all flavors. And it's great homebrewers who want to know 206 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:04,279 what's wrong with my beer, or how I can make my beer better, 207 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:10,359 or how can I prevent these flavors from appearing in beer. And you know, 208 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,160 the certification is the validation process. So if you think you know a 209 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:21,440 lot about beer, how do you actually validate that without getting a third party 210 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:27,440 involved to assess your knowledge. So that's that's really the validation aspect is important 211 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,559 for consumers as well. I found Yeah, like you mentioned homebrewing, I 212 00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:40,119 know, my first homebrewing experiment twenty years ago. I wish I knew then 213 00:19:40,319 --> 00:19:41,720 now, you know, like, what, oh, this taste like a 214 00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:45,720 band aid? Well, no, there's actually technical terms for that. And 215 00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:51,640 what I known, you know what, I know a little bit more now 216 00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:55,599 of that would have helped outside of I don't know what's wrong with this, 217 00:19:55,759 --> 00:20:00,559 but this just tastes like I came from CVS and opened up a by band 218 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:04,119 aids. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is people perceive flavors differently, 219 00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:08,440 so what might be a band aid to you might be something completely different to 220 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:15,079 somebody else. So and that's where flavor training is so important, because you're 221 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,720 isolating a flavor compound and comparing it to the same beer without that cone. 222 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:23,240 And when I was first getting a very similar story. When I was first 223 00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:27,359 getting into beer, I read about or Vall, you know, the Trappist 224 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:33,319 the famous Trappist beer or Vall, and how it used these amazing Steerian golding 225 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,240 hops and that those hops had a lot of characters. So I picked up 226 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,039 a bottle of more Ball and taste it, I thought, Wow, these 227 00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:47,720 these hops are crazy, but I wasn't perceiving the hops. I was perceiving 228 00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:52,720 the four ethel phenol band aid character that you were just describing because I didn't 229 00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:56,240 know. I hadn't been able to isolate that compound and understand where it came 230 00:20:56,319 --> 00:21:02,160 from. So it's it's a really eye opening educational experience to go through that 231 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:08,359 process you mentioned and the intro Ray Daniels, and I know as a former 232 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:15,319 homebrewer myself, I think anyone that is ever homebrewed has a copy of Designing 233 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:22,839 Great Beer on their bookshelf. So this is coming from a person that knows, 234 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,200 you know, all about homebrewing. So I think that this program would 235 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:33,359 help homebrewers out a lot absolutely that you know. The difference is we do 236 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,359 focus heavily on the service aspect that a lot of homebrewers aren't going to have 237 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,279 a lot of experience with or need to do professionally. But yeah, there's 238 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:47,319 quite a bit of overlap for sure. You're also talking about food pairing, 239 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:53,119 so from level to up, food is part of the Cistern program. How 240 00:21:53,160 --> 00:22:00,119 do you think that would help like the average person like myself and pairing beers 241 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,720 with food. I think that would be like just beneficial to general knowledge. 242 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:10,279 Oh okay, I know I could try such and such with this beer or 243 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,880 the other way around. Yeah, that's at the you know, at the 244 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:21,359 certified beer server level. That's the emphasis in talking about beer flavor. That's 245 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,799 you know, that are food flavors essentially, you know, hops taste like 246 00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:30,079 either citrus or herbs or spices, and there are fermentation flavors that taste like 247 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,759 fruit or whatever, and there's malt flavors that taste like bread. So understanding 248 00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:42,559 how those components work together and understanding commonly accepted flavor interactions like carbonation and what 249 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,079 that does with say fat or alcohol with you know, fat as well, 250 00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:52,319 is very helpful in putting together a pairing. I'm one of those people who's 251 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,599 who just likes to try different things, so you're not going to always have 252 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:03,960 a knockout pairing, but understanding from an assessment standpoint, understanding the flavors and 253 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:08,880 being able to talk about those flavors in a way that is thoughtful and meaningful 254 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,359 is what we're really looking for. But yeah, beer is food, and 255 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,880 you know, being able to recognize that and saying okay, this beer has 256 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:25,559 these multi flavors that when I pair it with this fruity, you know beer, 257 00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:29,240 it reminds me of you know, I don't know of peanut butter and 258 00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:33,759 jelly sandwich or something like that. So that those types of looking for different 259 00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:40,519 flavor hooks are what it's all about. Really, beer really is for everyone 260 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,559 and should be. Can you explain the Brewing Respect and Unity Coalition. Yeah. 261 00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:55,400 Absolutely. It's a coalition that of the Brewers Association cisterone, the NBAA, 262 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,559 and the American Society of Brewing Chemists and the Pink Boost Society, and 263 00:24:00,599 --> 00:24:11,640 we are collecting data on ways to minimize the incidents of violence and harm in 264 00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:18,680 the beer industry. And so we're working together collecting data on our program participants 265 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:25,839 knowledge on things like responsible service or whether they've had access to buy stand or 266 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:33,119 intervention training, and we share resources from each other's organization with our own program 267 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,839 participants so that they get more exposure to those resources. So, for example, 268 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:45,559 as of last year, everyone who takes our Certified Beer Server Exam sees 269 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,880 messaging that says, you know, if you're a beer professional, you have 270 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:56,759 a responsibility to maintain a safe environment for your patrons and understanding things like over 271 00:24:56,839 --> 00:25:03,039 service and other ways that your patron or coworkers can be harmed. And we 272 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,920 have resources to help you. So after your exam check these out. So 273 00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:11,839 thousands of people every year now receive that type of messaging and access to resources 274 00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:17,519 because of the brew coalition you were talking about, like the Beer Savvy Online. 275 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,480 I've noticed that the website is terrific, very informative, like the Beer 276 00:25:23,559 --> 00:25:30,319 Clean Day that you had last April, with like the graphics on there. 277 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:36,400 It's funny just going to a bar that's supposed to be a beer bar, 278 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:44,319 or even looking at like people's social media posts and like that glass isn't clean. 279 00:25:44,839 --> 00:25:49,079 Yeah, can you give a quick synopsis of like what a beer clean 280 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:55,079 glass is and how that helps us as a consumer. Yeah. Absolutely, 281 00:25:55,279 --> 00:26:02,200 So beer is a product that can really rat out a dirty glass. So 282 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,839 you might have a glass of water and it might look clean, but there 283 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,640 are films on the surface of the glass that are very apparent when you have 284 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:18,200 a liquid like beer in that glass. So if you see like clumps of 285 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:25,960 bubbles on the side of a glass, those are oils or fats that didn't 286 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:32,720 get removed from the surface of the glass during cleaning. They're visible to the 287 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:37,359 human eye, but carbonation in the beer collects on the surface of that oil 288 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,960 and you can definitely see that it's not clean. So one of the things 289 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,920 that you need to do to make sure you have a beer clean glass is 290 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:52,839 get a specialized so a detergent that is not petroleum based, like a typical 291 00:26:52,920 --> 00:27:00,119 dishwashing detergent, and use that to clean your glass instead of throwing a dishwasher 292 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,839 with plates that have butter all over them and things like that, because those 293 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,960 facts that you're washing your plates and other dishes with the beer glass will stick 294 00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:17,200 to the surface of your glass. Well, you've sold me, Chris, 295 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,839 So I'm going to take the Certified Beer Server exam probably in the next month 296 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,640 or so. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to come 297 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:33,079 on talk to people about the Cicerone program. Where can people find out more 298 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,519 if they want to look and join the ride with me? Yep, absolutely 299 00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:44,599 well. Our website is cicerone dot org. Cicerone dot org. That's the 300 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,720 first place you can go to. We have a YouTube channel with tons of 301 00:27:48,839 --> 00:27:52,960 video content. Then you can check out for free that we are a great 302 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:56,279 learning resource as well. So those are the two places, and we have 303 00:27:56,319 --> 00:28:00,799 an Instagram and Twitter and all that stuff too, round dot org. Yeah, 304 00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:03,720 and I'll include the link in the show notes. Chris, thank you 305 00:28:03,759 --> 00:28:07,119 again. Sorry, I really appreciate you taking time out this morning. I'll 306 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,880 talk to you down the road, all right, Thanks so much for having 307 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:18,640 me. Hey, this is Russ, This is Kyle, this is Michelle 308 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,920 from the Infectious Screw Podcast. Join us every Monday for the most fun you 309 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,880 can have with a music podcast. The Infectious Screw Podcast uses a positive and 310 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,519 fun approach as we take time every week to share our jamie jams, then 311 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:36,000 dig into a thought provoking topic discussing all decades and genres of music. You 312 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:40,240 can find the Infectious Screw Podcast on all major podcast platforms, or you can 313 00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:44,359 head to Infectious screwve podcast dot com to find us there and subscribe. We 314 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,640 might have a controversial opinion here or there, but we always have fun with 315 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,200 it. I'm sure I'll say something dumb. Subscribe to the Infectious Groove podcast, 316 00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:56,440 part of the Odd Pods media network. Be sure to check out Infectious 317 00:28:56,519 --> 00:29:00,480 Groove Music whether you listen to the podcast to check them out on YouTube. 318 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:07,400 That's a show you should always put in the cart. The beer in front 319 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,559 that I'm going to have today is from Goldfinger in Downers Grove in collaboration with 320 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:21,160 Jack's Abbey. This is a dortmunder lagger. I'm also recording this on video. 321 00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:23,960 If you're a Patreon member, you could head over there and watch the 322 00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:27,319 video. But I wanted to do this on video because I wanted to show 323 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:32,839 you the clean glass since I'm smart now. But no, I love everything 324 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,599 Goldfinger puts out. Jack's Abbey is a brewery I've heard a lot about, 325 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,599 so this one should be good. Let's bust it open. Good carbonation here, 326 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,559 good color. Look at the glass. Look there's no there's no bubbles 327 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,920 on this glass. It's a good clean it's a beer clean glass. EurOMA 328 00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:59,839 is very nice. I get a lot of the noble hops here along with 329 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,880 some of the malt. It really smells great. Yeah, that's good, 330 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:11,359 really nice finish here. It's well balanced. I get the malt that they 331 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,440 use. I get a nice not a lot, but there's a good hot 332 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:22,920 bitterness here that really it's very balanced. It's an easy drinking beer. It's 333 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:30,720 five point eight percent alcohol. So have a couple of them. You're in 334 00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:34,559 good shape. I think this is good. Everything that Goldfinger puts out has 335 00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:38,799 been great. They're Vienna Lager is one of my favorites everything that I've had. 336 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,480 I've heard good things about Jack's Abbey, so I'm going to have to 337 00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:48,519 check them out a little bit more. But if you see this, definitely 338 00:30:48,640 --> 00:31:00,279 from Goldfinger put their Dortmunder in the cart all right. After speaking with Chris, 339 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:07,640 I decided I'm going to take the Cicerone test to become a certified beer 340 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:11,359 server. And that was pretty difficult. I must say. Some of it 341 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:17,039 was common sense. Some of it was a lot harder to me. But 342 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,720 I studied. I bought some flashcards from them. Chris gave me a good 343 00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:29,960 idea and doing some study questions. But I am an official certified beer server 344 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:36,640 from the Cicerone program. If anyone has questions, please reach out. Go 345 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,920 to Cicerone dot org. You could find out more information, or you could 346 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,279 get a hold of me. I thought it was worthwhile. There were some 347 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:52,119 nuances between different beer styles that I wasn't quite familiar with. I like Belgian 348 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,640 style beers, but I'm not an expert on them. I'm not an expert 349 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,880 on them. Now, but I know a lot more than I did a 350 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:07,240 couple of weeks ago. So if this podcasting airline gig doesn't work out, 351 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:16,440 I'm a certified beer server. Now. All right, that's going to wrap 352 00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:21,519 things up for this week's episode of Beer in Front. I thank you very 353 00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:23,559 much for listening. If you need to get a hold of me, reach 354 00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:30,759 out Dave at beer infront dot com. I'm also available on all the social 355 00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:36,119 media channels at beer in Front. Big thank you to Chris Pisney over at 356 00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:39,519 the Sister Own Program for talking today. Next week's show is going to be 357 00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:45,759 good. I'm going to talk with the restaurant and brewery Hello Monte in Chattanooga, 358 00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:50,880 Tennessee. That was fun. They have some good beers as well, 359 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,200 so definitely be on the lookout for that next week. Hope everyone has a 360 00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,359 great week, and remember sometimes the beer in front of you is the best 361 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,559 one yet. All right, take care of everyone.