WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:41.240 And the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 2 00:00:53.600 --> 00:01:33.719 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 3 00:01:36.719 --> 00:02:30.800 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 4 00:02:36.240 --> 00:03:28.000 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 5 00:03:30.719 --> 00:04:11.800 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 6 00:04:20.480 --> 00:05:34.360 the the the the the the the the the the the the the what's up? 7 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:46.079 Welcome everybody. I got me a nice little cup of effervescence. Evanescence, 8 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:51.519 No, no effervescence. Wake me up inside? Can we gonna say? 9 00:05:53.319 --> 00:06:03.000 Save me from the nothing of me? Go? Oh, it's tickling 10 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:10.680 my nose, the eff a vescence. I got a little bit of eff 11 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:18.319 a vescence in my coffee. What's up? My locks are shining, my 12 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:23.639 nose is tingling. I've been snorting chalk all day long. I'm ready to 13 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:30.879 debate, and I know you are too. Baby Now, I don't expect 14 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:35.199 too many libertarians to actually call in. In fact, we had a libertarian 15 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:41.439 buddy in the chat and he just dropped off, so I don't know. 16 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:46.800 Maybe he didn't like the soundtrack Beep beep, boom, boo boo, boo 17 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:53.519 boo boo boo boo. Look, it's not just about libertarianism today. That's 18 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.600 just on the topic. If people want to call in about that, it's 19 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:59.720 on the topic list. I was kind of hoping we get some more of 20 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:05.360 them BHR boys from across the tracks to call in. BHR boys on the 21 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:15.639 on the prow, drink a little effervescence, drinking a little evanescence. I 22 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:21.439 don't know we're gonna get any vhis to call in, but they are more 23 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:30.759 than welcome my brother to call in. There were so many things that we 24 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:41.160 didn't get to in that so called debate with the BHRY boys. I wanted 25 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:48.240 to get into history, church history, but we didn't even get that far. 26 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:55.160 A few words on libertarianism before we opened it up, and we're I 27 00:07:55.720 --> 00:08:00.480 put that in there because everybody's talking about it today because of Trump talking about 28 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:07.480 because it's gonna be gray, We'll never go after you Bitcoin and Elizabeth Warren 29 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:18.360 and the Democrats self custody it's gonna be great, and then the Libertarians chose 30 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:24.279 some kind of damn freak whoa shocker. The whole philosophy is freak philosophy, 31 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:28.000 and I don't mean in a sexy freak way, I mean in a just 32 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:35.440 gross way. How is that? How do I come to that conclusion? 33 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:41.320 How could I not be libertarian? Well, the libertarian philosophy is only as 34 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:48.320 good as the classical liberalism which underlies it. And so if classical worldview philosophy 35 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:56.279 whatever, then enlightenment liberalism mean iss, you mean, then all of the 36 00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:01.159 components of libertarian philosophy coming out of the Enlightenment are only going to be so 37 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:07.399 good as classical liberalism. Now, not everything is wrong in classical liberalism, 38 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:13.919 but you know, any philosophy can have elements of things that are correct, 39 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.080 but it doesn't mean that the paradigm or the system is correct, right, 40 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:24.759 So, I mean we could think of things that Karl Marx got correct in 41 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:31.559 his analysis, but that doesn't make Marxism correct. We could think of things 42 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:37.440 that David Hume got correct, but that doesn't make human skepticism correct. You 43 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:43.840 see. So I would argue, in short, make it kind of brief 44 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.480 here before we open it up. What are some of the critiques. Well, 45 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:52.120 we've been making pretty consistent philosophical critiques of libertarianism for about ten years on 46 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:56.000 this channel, and you can go back I put up one of the old 47 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.240 videos from about nine years ago critiqu it. Man, I gotta I gotta 48 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.279 not drink effort vescence on stream. I just want to freaking burp the whole 49 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:13.480 time. I'm only libertarian about the cocaines. Bro I don't I don't snort 50 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.799 cocaine. I snort chalk dot com right here. You got it all backwards, 51 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.480 baby, that's my sponsor. That's a joke too. By the way, 52 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.039 don't snort that stuff. I'll kill you. That's only made to go 53 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.399 in your gut and turn you into a Sigma alpha chad max out to the 54 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:37.799 map. This is this is what. Look, everybody's wondering what happened to 55 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.720 Zuckerberg? How did he change? How did he? Oh oh, how 56 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:46.879 did he start looking like Jay? Oh? What? Oh? Oh? 57 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.600 He stole he stole that? Look? See that look right there on the 58 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.519 screen. How did he do it? Chalk dot com? You know, 59 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:03.360 we can't stop even the Silicon Valley overlord oligarchs from buying chalk dot com. 60 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:07.960 Look, even if Zuckerberg gets a hold of chalk dot com, what happens 61 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:13.399 he starts evolving into me? Look at that anyway, that's show sponsored chalk 62 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:18.240 dot Com. Heading over there to get the best in supplementation is J forty 63 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:24.840 four Life. Anyway, where were we at? We were talking about libertarian 64 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.080 philosophy. So some of the basic critiques that I've launched for many years, 65 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.480 classical liberalism is premised kind of on I guess what you could say is atheistic 66 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:37.000 presuppositions. I understand that not every classical liberal or libertarian is necessarily atheist. 67 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:41.720 The problem is that the presuppositions are atheist, the assumption being that there's no 68 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:48.919 divine institution that exists in history that has any authority to necessarily say anything in 69 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:56.759 regards to collective obligations, collective metaphysical realities, and values. Everyone is in 70 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:03.879 a presupposed place of absolute autonomy, and anything else from the exterior is some 71 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:09.480 form of oppression or a violation of the NAP. And I'm not talking about 72 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:13.639 a black Heber Israelites haircut. I'm talking about the non aggression principle NAP. 73 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:20.000 NAP. The NAP has to do with the supposed assumption that no one should 74 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:28.080 ever engage in any type of aggression or violation of individual sovereignty or rights because 75 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:33.720 that violates the NAP. But it's also a worldview where there are no moral 76 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:39.200 obligations, no oughts, there's no normativity, at least in most of these 77 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:43.240 philosophies, because if you get into David Hume and the is aught problem, 78 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:48.120 there's not typically a solution to this. Why ought we follow this moral prescription 79 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:52.720 versus some other one or none at all? Oh well, just because it'll 80 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.919 help you flourish, Well, what does it mean to flourish? That's another 81 00:12:56.360 --> 00:13:03.240 presupposition. That's another argument or assertion based on the idea that there are values. 82 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:09.159 Value judgments can't be derived from the states of matter, And so if 83 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.840 you have an assumed a presupposed materialist philosophy, you're not going to have any 84 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.559 way to justify or give an account for the moral prescriptions or the ethical norms 85 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:24.000 that you want to have, and every society requires ethical norms. In fact, 86 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.600 to say that it's wrong to violate in the NAP is to make an 87 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:31.679 ethical claim, an ethical argument. It's wrong to do so. But you 88 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:35.679 can't ground your moral claims if there's no transcendent. And that's the thing is 89 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:43.320 that the assumptions of the worldview of the classical liberal from the outset exclude God's 90 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:48.559 existence and the supernatural and the transcendent, and it begins to argue from a 91 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:56.759 materialist perspective to then sort of leap to these unjustified metaphysical claims about rights. 92 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:03.360 What are rights? Libertarians? Not all, but many are atheists. They're 93 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.879 atheist materialists. And if you're an atheist materialist, there's no such thing as 94 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:13.960 a right. Is it a social construct? Is it something that the government 95 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.399 gives to you? Why? No, of course not. The government doesn't 96 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:18.919 accord you rights. You have your rights. Oh, where are the rights 97 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:26.039 under the microscope? Just like laws of logic, just like meaning in terms 98 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:33.879 of linguistic philosophy, just like ideas like love, obligation, ideas like virtue, 99 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:37.039 vice, the good. None of those things are found under a microscope. 100 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:41.279 And so if you want to have a scientism based, empiricists based worldview, 101 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:48.080 as many of them do, there's no justification for anything outside of bare 102 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:52.879 matter. So all of these other things that aren't reducible to or don't in 103 00:14:52.879 --> 00:15:00.000 any way equate to molecules are really fictions or social constructs. So actually, 104 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.919 the t R A n Z people and they just elected a skittles man for 105 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:13.639 who's pro all of that to their libertarian party ticket, whatever nomination. I 106 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.519 mean, he's just been consistent with the atheist presubpositions of the whole worldview. 107 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.240 Now we've been arguing this for I don't know how many years. Every libertarian 108 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:30.000 debate that we have, the libertarian absolutely collapses into a puddle of whining filth. 109 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:37.080 Like Austin Peterson. They're absolute jokes. They can't handle the slightest bit 110 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.519 of pushback. They don't know anything about argumentation, logic, and philosophy. 111 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:46.919 And that includes Kocash, Austin Peterson, Robert Taylor, and even stuff on 112 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:52.639 Malineu. Now, Malineu I think faired the best of that crowd, maybe 113 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:58.720 Robert Taylor, but all of that crowd, at least the ones I debated, 114 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:03.240 are specifically atheist agnostic and don't even know what the Izzat problem is. 115 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.799 Now maybe nowadays, maybe a couple of libertarians have picked up on this fundamental 116 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:12.559 philosophical problem, even though we've been hammering it for over ten years. But 117 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.679 my critiques of Jordan Peterson over the years also fit into this domain. We 118 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:26.120 critique his classical liberalism umpteenth million times, and still people just can't grasp this. 119 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.799 I don't know what the problem is, and I don't know what the 120 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:33.559 problem is overall. I guess everyone is just sort of pretending, Like I 121 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:37.120 think people think, well, I just pretend that that's not an issue. 122 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.720 I'll hand waive it, and then I don't care. But it's almost like 123 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:48.039 they never even understand what the issues are. Oh, that's just a bunch 124 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.759 of philosophy wrangling. I don't have to worry about that. What do you 125 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.240 mean, like your whole ethos comes out of Enlightenment philosophers that I'm talking about. 126 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.440 Did you even know that Khan, who, by the way, was 127 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:07.359 a huge proponent of Neil or liberal wise fair economic theory. Kant thought that 128 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:14.319 if you had totally open trade globally, you would have world peace and world 129 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:22.559 government. He wrote an essay on it. Other Enlightenment theorists of Laise Fair 130 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:27.119 also incline in this direction. Oh, well, you won't have wars anymore 131 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:32.680 because we have free trade. How naive and stupid, as if wars just 132 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:38.440 come from economic factors. Wars come because human beings are fallen and they have 133 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:45.039 a tendency towards vice. So libertarianism typically it's premised on an assumption that there's 134 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.720 not a fallen world, and that man has not fallen. Rather, man's 135 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:56.039 problems are societal and economic. Oh who else has that exact same presupposition Marxists. 136 00:17:56.079 --> 00:18:02.759 Marxists also presuppose that there's no fallen and it's just man's badly educated and 137 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:07.039 he's affected by societal issues, and this causes him to choose bad things, 138 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.440 and he's oppressed by the bourgeoisie blah blah blah. Now, the other thing 139 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.039 that always blows the minds of the libertarians when we talk about this is that 140 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:22.839 you've noticed some of the popular wealthy people out there, say Klaus Schwab, 141 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:29.319 who are portrayed as global capitalists, which is somewhat accurate. Why do they 142 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:34.599 have busts of people like the Eye Lenen. Why do so many high level 143 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:41.599 capitalists like David Rockefeller have such a fascination and a long history of supporting Marxism. 144 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:51.480 People like David Rockefeller's professor Harold Laski, Why does he write multiple New 145 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:56.119 York Times editorials praising Chairman Mao. And this is of course something that the 146 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:02.440 boomers can never get. I've only seen one or two boomers ever accept this, 147 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.000 this issue. We were talking about this yesterday after church. For some 148 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:07.400 reason, this is the issue that just the boomer can't get this, and 149 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.319 I think it has to do with them being, you know, growing up 150 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:15.799 in the Cold War, and it just seems too difficult to accept the idea 151 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:19.720 that the wealthiest people on the planet. And I'm not talking about local millionaires, 152 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.160 Okay, I'm not talking about the local uh you know, auto trim 153 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:33.319 design pimp, my Honda Civic millionaire. I'm talking about the zillionaires. Baby. 154 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:40.759 Why do they love socialism and re Marxism because Marxism socialism have always been 155 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:48.599 always been a favored element and tool of the moneyed elite, not all the 156 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:53.119 money elite, but many of the money to elite, the point one percent. 157 00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:04.759 Okay, the zillionaires. That's precisely why Ford built the Gorky Auto Park 158 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:12.039 for the Soviets. Why would Ford Automotive build a giant Soviet auto automotive park. 159 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.599 Why would they build all these other factories, all these other operations for 160 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:22.119 the Soviets Because they are secret communists, dude, the secret coolb This is 161 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:26.759 a libertarian idiot level argumentation out there right. The people that uh to the 162 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:42.960 people that buy Uribezmano of at face value right even quickly says that the French 163 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:53.480 Revolution was funded by Protestant and other banking elites. So you go all the 164 00:20:53.480 --> 00:21:00.000 way back to the French Revolution with its commune, with its Jacobins, funded 165 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:08.160 by very, very wealthy people, and this is very well documented in history. 166 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:15.319 I can't I just can't fathom why people can't figure this out. It's 167 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:21.119 the conspiracy theory, the conspiracy theory. Who is pushing most of what we're 168 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:26.079 going under today when it comes to the socialism, fabian socialism that's emerging. 169 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:32.920 Is it the government? Kind of? But the government can't do that everywhere. 170 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:38.160 But who has tentacles everywhere to do that? Why the fortune one hundred, 171 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:45.119 fortune five hundred? Why would they be pushing all of this? So 172 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:53.200 you understand this right here destroys the classic libertarian narrative of its private interests versus 173 00:21:53.240 --> 00:22:00.240 the state. Now, dude, our state was long ago captured by private 174 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:07.839 interests. So am gov is just another corporation working in lockstep and in tandem 175 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:14.920 with the other corporations, and that should be really obvious. I can't figure 176 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:19.319 out why people can't figure this out. I mean, the last few years 177 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:29.759 of KOOF not obviously demonstrate to this this to anyone with a decent IQ Was 178 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:34.480 it the state or was it the private interest? Who was doing KOF? 179 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.880 Oh? It was all of them. The answer is all the above, 180 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:44.599 that's who, because they're all working for the same entities. And look at 181 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:48.680 the revolving dwarf phenomenon. Okay, who's in the Trilateral Commission? Who goes 182 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:53.519 to Bilderberg, who's in the CFR? Is it government people or people in 183 00:22:53.599 --> 00:23:00.480 the state. You can't figure it out. Bo It's a revolving door. 184 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:07.400 They go from one to the other because the state is a captured corporate entity 185 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:12.599 and has been for a long time. So this whole narrative of the libertarians 186 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:21.480 versus the statists is itself a false dialectic. And it's not that hard to 187 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:22.599 figure that out. How can people not figure this out? This is like 188 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.000 super obvious. You don't even have to go that deep into history. I 189 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:30.079 have history degree. I almost have a double dgram. I'm like two classes 190 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:38.279 from a double in philosophy and history. Undergrad, I had mainline professors explaining 191 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:45.359 a lot of this to me in undergrad, so I is like, but 192 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.759 people don't read books, man, they don't. People don't They're not interested 193 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:53.440 in what's actually the case. I mean, everybody's just a bunch of dame 194 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:59.880 slow boys, slow boy nation. Man, that's what I'm talking about. 195 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.640 So back to the libertarian ethos of the Enlightenment. Look, it's only as 196 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:07.920 good as the classical liberalism is. And if the classical liberalism fails, I'm 197 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:12.279 not talking about everything about it. Okay. I understand that there are legitimate 198 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:18.359 grievances in opposition to corruption in the late Middle Ages, well aware of it, 199 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:22.839 and you know the corruption the Romancallic Church, which we have covered a 200 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:29.240 zillion times on this channel, right, that contributes to it. But not 201 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.599 every answer, not every solution that comes out of the Enlightenment, is necessarily 202 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.880 the best option. Nor does it mean that the people proposing those solutions, 203 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:44.359 the David Ricardo's, the Adam Smith's, the Emmanuel Kant's, the John Lockes. 204 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.759 It doesn't mean that they have the best paradigm either. A person can 205 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:55.160 get certain things right and have a totally jacked up paradigm. You don't see 206 00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:03.279 that. Really, the history of America is this entity with a bunch of 207 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:12.680 colluding and colliding philosophies and ideas, influencing its start, its emergence, its 208 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:17.440 documents, it's founding documents, founding father, et cetera. And the history 209 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:22.640 of America was America figuring out which of its many presuppositions and worldviews and conflicting 210 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:26.400 paradigms it would choose to be more consistent with. Would it go in the 211 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:33.240 direction of the Christian Biblical Roman law influence. Would it go in the direction 212 00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:41.559 of its Masonic Enlightenment Deist influence, because it has both, So the whole 213 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:47.839 history of America, I would say it's kind of the struggle to determine which 214 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:53.839 of these paths we would go, and unfortunately we have continually chosen the worst 215 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:56.880 path. Here. We've chosen more and more and more to move away from 216 00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:03.960 the explicitly Christian values which don't make sense with the Enlightenment, natural philosophy, 217 00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:08.759 natural theology, assumptions of America. In God we trust what God? The 218 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:14.400 God of the Deists and the Freemasons, the God of Roman Catholicism, which 219 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:21.799 is also natural theology, the same as the Deists and the Freemasons. Jesus 220 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.440 as the one True God, the I am that I am. Do you 221 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:36.039 see how right? Natural philosophy, natural theology, Masonic philosophy, enlightenment philosophy. 222 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:37.960 Oh, where they happen to all kind of oblat don't think, because 223 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:45.480 they're pretty much the same in their assumptions. So America, unfortunately has consistently 224 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:49.920 chosen for a long time worse and worse and worst options. Like it's like 225 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.640 America's here, you know, got two wolves inside of him, like do 226 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:56.200 I want to go with the gay wolf? Do I want to go with 227 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:02.119 the alpha chad wolf? And America is like consistently saying ooh, almost as 228 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:03.839 the gay wolf, ooh, I want you to be more gay for her? 229 00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:11.359 Oh right, that's the choice, that's the bad choice, virtue versus 230 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:22.880 vice. And that's just a philosophical critique. The metaphysical critique. Let's get 231 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:27.119 a little more into the metaphysical critique. They're always talking about rights, rights, 232 00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:33.480 rights, freedom, liberty. Okay, those are metaphysical concepts. A 233 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.519 giant portion of these idiot atheists don't even believe in free will. They're determinists. 234 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:44.079 So how are you gonna have a libertarian philosophy if you're a metaphysical determinist? 235 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:48.839 This is just idiotic. I'm speaking to the atheist libertarian ship. Well, 236 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.640 I've got a good argument to prove that there is actually libertarian freedom. 237 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:59.279 Even though I have a materialist that I believe that everything is purely typical reactions, 238 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:02.119 there is still freedom. Well, really, what's freedom if you don't 239 00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:07.279 believe in personhood. We're not made in the image of God. There is 240 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:14.880 no God. We're just manifestations of primordial mock So what's freedom? Freedom from 241 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:21.759 what to do? What? So you understand that they have no basis for 242 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:29.519 virtue ethics. The whole ethos of libertarianism is part of utilitarian ethics, ethics 243 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:34.920 based on outcome supposedly and the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. 244 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:40.319 And the idiots at the time of Enlightenment like Bentham, who was a pedo. 245 00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:45.119 So guess what libertarianism with its present day skittles people, They were skittles 246 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:51.480 four hundred, five hundred years ago. Okay, Jerryman Bentham and his idiot 247 00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:56.640 cronies think, I'm not kidding. They're the Spurgs of their time. They 248 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:03.720 thought that they could come up with a moral cal an algorithm that would tell 249 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.839 you the right choices in different situations. That's how stupid this is. And 250 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.000 also they thought, well, we can also come up with pleasure points, 251 00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:17.759 and we can figure out the best thing for all of society, the best 252 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:23.759 happiness points, coomp points for all of society to make all society happy, 253 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.160 and we'll do it with math. This is how ridiculous this world view is. 254 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.559 Now, I'm sure plenty of libertarians don't believe in any of that anymore, 255 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.480 or they don't they realize that that's kind of ridiculous. But this is 256 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:45.119 why you get these weird, bizarre manifestations of their choices for who represents them. 257 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.079 I mean, it's just it's pathetic, it's laughable. And this is 258 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:56.559 not a new phenomenon. They were going woke twenty sixteen or earlier, even 259 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.720 when one of the first debate that we did on this channel that was a 260 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.960 big public debate was twenty fifteen or so Adam Kokash. Okay, So at 261 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:15.359 that time Adam Kokash was like the front running person for libertarianism, or at 262 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.119 least he wanted to be, and maybe he was the Libertarian nominee. I 263 00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.480 don't remember, but he was like at one time, he was like two 264 00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.680 hundred and fifty thousand on YouTube, you know, like the big libertarian. 265 00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:30.079 This is even before I think malineu like had like a huge, you know, 266 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:37.880 million million subscriber libertarian channel, And even back then, the debate was 267 00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:42.480 exactly the same. Right, So we're talking about the crop of Goober's ten 268 00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:48.480 years ago that we had to debate with who completely demolished themselves, and all 269 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.799 the debates that we had. Here we are ten years later and we're still 270 00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:02.799 debating the same crop of goober philosophy that is so low tier. And as 271 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:06.480 I said at the time, don't you understand that this is within the circle 272 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:11.480 of a loud discussion. Okay, the system doesn't mind you debating and discussing 273 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:19.359 all this libertarian crab because libertarianism is never going to change anything. So it's 274 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:26.799 within the acceptable sphere of what can be discussed. Now. At times, 275 00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:33.720 libertarians and people from within libertarianism or Austrian economics, they make really good points, 276 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:36.359 they write really good books, they come up with really good inventions, 277 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.880 They call out things. Peter Schiff accurately called out the two thousand and eight 278 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:48.880 housing collapse, the cipher punks invent bitcoin. So I'm not hating every person 279 00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:53.160 I'm talking about the Enlightenment presuppositions of classical liberalism. That's the problem here. 280 00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:02.519 In all the motivations from these schools, in these philosophies, is never anything 281 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:16.400 more than a pleasure based, outcome based ethics of the common good. So 282 00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:22.039 there's no objective right or wrong, there's no duties, there's only outcome based 283 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:29.319 pleasure points com points. So what action am I going to choose? Well, 284 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:35.000 this one gives one million people twenty five com points they can coom twenty 285 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:39.960 five times. This other option only allows five hundred thousand people to coom twenty 286 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.279 times. Therefore, the first option is better. You see how stupid this 287 00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.559 is. And again there's all kinds of philosophies that we can run through or 288 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.119 philosophical critiques to critique utilitarian ethics, because again, this is what is based 289 00:32:52.119 --> 00:33:00.759 on for the most part. In fact, Sam Bankman Freed started a foundation 290 00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:08.440 of some kind of nonsense taking from Bentham's utilitarian ethics and this moral calculus idea 291 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:13.759 that they were going to start The Happiness Foundation is some gay title like that, 292 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:19.319 and they're gonna make everybody happy with their coon points and their crypto Oh 293 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:23.599 shocker, it was all a giant quasi cult money laundering Ponzi's game Shocker. 294 00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.279 We talked about that with Richard grow but I forget the name of his The 295 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:38.680 Ultrue Society for Society for something Altruism Society for somebody in the chat will know. 296 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:44.039 Put it in the chat, you remember. But the point is that 297 00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:49.519 we can give other types of critiques. For example, there's nothing in utilitarian 298 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:54.200 ethics that tells us that we're supposed to prefer the greater number of people's happiness 299 00:33:54.319 --> 00:34:00.519 versus a quantitative happiness of one individual. So in other words, let's say 300 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:04.720 that, to go along with this dumb argument, that we could quantify com 301 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:09.159 points or happiness points. Okay, so let's say that me as the quisas 302 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:15.000 hotock enslaving a giant harem a village of Amazon women to make them into my, 303 00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:22.920 you know, my harem of bishes, I get as an individual quisasatock 304 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:30.159 god Emperor, I get like seven thousand pleasure coon points from doing that as 305 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:37.519 an individual. But on the other hand, we can also dole out one 306 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:45.119 million Kickkat bars to one million people, But that only equates to four three 307 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:50.480 hundred pleasure points. Because you understand a person getting a kit Cat is not 308 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:55.400 one full pleasure point. It's like point zh three pleasure points in the pleasure 309 00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.519 point moral calculus algorithm. I'm not joking. This is their this is their 310 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:06.480 dumb argument. So between these two, how would we know which one is 311 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:09.440 the right option to choose? Right? So I can take all my time 312 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:20.880 and effort as the the voluntarily chosen quisots hotter rock of libertarian libertaria. We'll 313 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:30.440 call it Libertardia. I'm the quisas hatka lib Tardia. All right, how 314 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.280 do I how do we know which one is the preferable choice? Because you 315 00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.400 understand that to say, the greatest number of the greatest amount of happiness or 316 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:43.920 pleasure for the greatest number of people, how do we know that we're supposed 317 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:49.519 to choose the greater number versus the individual qualitative pleasure? What if I get 318 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:58.199 so much more pleasure as an individual out of having my hairm versus the very 319 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:04.360 minimal amount of pleasure that the village gets by getting a free kitcat. Do 320 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:08.639 you understand this is arbitrary? That's why this is dumb. There's nothing that 321 00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:13.880 tells you that that's preferable, and in fact, we can make it more 322 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:19.440 absurd and turn it into things like BDS. You know what type stuff. 323 00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.920 Right, If an individual psycho serial killer, it gets high amounts of pleasure 324 00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:30.239 from doing those things, versus everybody in the village getting low amounts of pleasure 325 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:34.079 from a free kitcat or something like that. You see how silly this is. 326 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.360 There's also all kinds of other obvious critiques of the non aggression principle. 327 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.039 First of all, why are we supposed to think that's a self evident principle? 328 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.400 When I look at nature, I don't see nature operating on a non 329 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:49.159 aggression principle. I see a lot of predator prey operations in nature, see 330 00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.159 a lot of aggression. So why am I supposed to think that I'm supposed 331 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:54.760 to abide by an nap Oh, well, society won't flourish. Well, 332 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:59.079 I want don't give a shit about society. I want me to flourish. 333 00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:04.400 I'm the damn quizotes hoider Rock. Okay, I'm setting up my god Emperor 334 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:12.519 dynasty. Give a shit about you. Also, Plus I'm the quiz outsider 335 00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:21.480 Rock, so you can't review that anyway. So the point is that this 336 00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:28.159 is a classic ethical critique that's made of utilitarian ethics. And I'm not knocking 337 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:32.360 every libertarian, but most libertarians haven't looked into the critiques of utilitarian ethics. 338 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.920 That's the point, and we're gonna open it up here in a second. 339 00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.880 I'm gonna go to my friend top Lobster. Well, he's the top lobster. 340 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.440 He's a top of the hierarchy. You know. It's like it's like 341 00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.599 one guy calls in and it's like, is he the top lobster? Yes? 342 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:55.159 Yes, excuse me, my My Jordan is a little off today because 343 00:37:55.159 --> 00:38:02.920 I've been drinking evanescence. Wake me up inside, Wake me up inside, 344 00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:13.920 CAUSI from the nothing ivy Coom. I'm gonna be burping all time. Now 345 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.920 another point about the nap, and then we'll open it up again. I 346 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:23.159 got a million critiques. I'm gonna stop here though, because I've been fussing 347 00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:27.039 this whole time. I got a bunch of people on line. By the 348 00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:30.440 way, we don't have to talk about libertarianism only today. If you're a 349 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.960 Catholic, if you're a Protestant, if you're a Calvinist and evangelical, a 350 00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.400 Muslim, an atheist, you're welcome to call in. Somebody said, you 351 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.760 don't know what debate Jews? Dude. Do you know how many Jews have 352 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:46.920 ever called in to debate ever? Absolutely zero? So what do you mean. 353 00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:52.800 There was one offer to debate a Jewish guy like five years ago, 354 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:58.119 and he wanted to debate masonry and Pythagrenism. I don't give a shit about 355 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:02.519 masonry and Pythagorena. I'm not gonna debate that. And then another Jewish guy 356 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.079 the other day said, I want a big debate. You owe me this 357 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.119 debate. I don't owe you a debate. By the way, it was 358 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:15.800 a small channel anyway. So Jews don't believe that they have to go out 359 00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.960 and proselytize. Okay, so they're kind of like Buddhists. People wold you 360 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.920 to debate a Buddhists. I'm literally people were asking me that you don't debate 361 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:28.280 Buddhists. Buddhists don't proselytize. Jews don't proselytize. So they're not doing apologetics 362 00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:35.599 unless they feel like Judaism is being encroached upon or they're having some disturbance in 363 00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:37.840 Israelism, then they'll debate one of these messionic people because that's the only time 364 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:45.239 they debate usually Anyway, last point about utilitarian ethics and the idea of the 365 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:52.840 NAP again going back to to the presuppositions of utilitarians ethics. One of the 366 00:39:52.880 --> 00:40:00.719 problems with this is the assumption that most NAP people have is that it's physical 367 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:05.199 aggression. Well, that's not the only way that I can aggress people, 368 00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:09.320 Okay. I can engage in subterfuse and economic warfare. I can engage in 369 00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:14.480 toxic cultural warfare. If you go back to the Cokeuash debate from ten years 370 00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:17.440 ago, he was mystified when I brought up toxic culture and cultural war, 371 00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:23.199 which is a very fundamental aspect of how warfare goes on. Like we saw 372 00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:28.599 with all this degeneracy, this is part of culture war. This book that 373 00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:32.480 we've been covering sex that's being honest, I mean, the whole damn book 374 00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:39.760 that Whitney Webb wrote about, jeff Stein mcguffrey culture War, and then Adam 375 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:45.719 kinquesh is over he who's culture war? What it even is? The what 376 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:49.400 even is that? Yeah? Exactly like Bryce and Gray level what that he 377 00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:58.239 is? What that he is? What that he is? Fallacy is so 378 00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:01.639 for example, in a utilitarian system, if we are always, for example, 379 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:07.599 to prefer the greatest number, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of 380 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:14.519 people, for example, there's nothing that prevents me in that ethical system from 381 00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:22.360 not physically engaging in subterfuge, but engaging in all kinds of underhanded economic warfare 382 00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:30.719 or psyops or whatever against my neighbors and my enemy or my economic competition. 383 00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:36.960 I spread lies in the community about the rival cookie company and that they're putting 384 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:40.079 gay sprinkles in the cookies that are making everyone gay, not just the frogs. 385 00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:46.800 Right, did I aggress anyone? It's not true. I didn't physically 386 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:53.480 aggress them, so I didn't violate any utilitarian ethical problems. Another one of 387 00:41:53.480 --> 00:42:00.199 the classic critiques, too, is the example of you could actually argue that 388 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:09.559 punishing innocent people is viable in this worldview if it causes a high level of 389 00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:14.679 satisfaction and peace and ease to the greatest number of people. So, for 390 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:17.079 example, let's say there's a serial killer on the loose. We don't know 391 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:22.400 who it is. He's uh, he's just ripping up people left and right 392 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.079 in the village. Right, he's Jeffrey Badonka doncin on a daily basis. 393 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.320 Uh, And we don't know what to do. So me and the village 394 00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:34.519 elder is the council on the quisterat we sit down and say, you know 395 00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:38.199 what, we got this slow boy over here that's really annoying. Okay, 396 00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:42.400 and we don't like him. Now he's not actually the serial killer. But 397 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:47.800 you know what, for the safety and security of dire village, we're gonna 398 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.840 say that slow boy over here is our Jeffrey Badonka donk serial killer. And 399 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:58.559 we'll hold a public exit you know, trial and all that and uh, 400 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:01.840 because you know, getting justice, even if it's not the right dude, 401 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:08.199 Why, it provides a whole heap of security and ease on the part of 402 00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:14.679 the entire village. And so what's better that one man die or that the 403 00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:20.800 whole nation die. That's from the Gospels, by the way. Now, 404 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:25.840 this whole system is only as good as it's classical libertarian ethos and its utilitarian 405 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:30.519 ethics, which is to say, not very good. Now, does that 406 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:34.320 mean I'm against private property? No? Does that mean I'm against having a 407 00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:37.960 business and making a profit. No. There's a lot of good points in 408 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:43.960 this economic system and in these theories, but the presuppositions are off, and 409 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:51.440 so the system is not going to work because it presupposes an atheistic, materialistic 410 00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:59.880 ethos It denies obligations and collective metaphysical realities that you're part of a family, 411 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:02.639 part of a tribe, part of a nation state, and then that part 412 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:07.480 in part makes up who you are. Libertarians says, I'm just meet. 413 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:17.719 I ain't got no I ain't got no obligations to nobody but myself. So 414 00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:23.719 you become the atomized individual. By the way, none of this is anything 415 00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:32.840 even remotely connected to historic Christianity, which believes in a leader who is anointed 416 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:38.119 and coronated by the church. It's called a coronation ceremony, and that's literally 417 00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:49.280 almost always been a king or an emperor. And this is all ultimately to 418 00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:53.559 place economics as the center of man's meaning, life and activities. It's not 419 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:59.239 by accident that after the Enlightenment what becomes the center of every city is that 420 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:02.480 a giant ca you go to European cities, what's in the center, giant 421 00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:07.079 cathedral? Now, what's in the center of a city, center of the 422 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:13.360 city. Damn banks, giant ass banks everywhere. Okay, also by the 423 00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:21.280 way, usury is not right. Pretty much every enlightenment libertarian person, going 424 00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.519 back to their libertarian forefathers classical liberals, is always out there defending usury. 425 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.519 So there we go. All right, we're going to open it up. 426 00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:34.400 It doesn't have to be about Enlightenment liberalism and all this kind of stuff. 427 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:39.239 If you want to talk about any of the other theological positions topics, you 428 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:42.440 want a debate, you can have the floor. You can talk as long 429 00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:44.840 as you want. Somebody says, do you have an OF? Yes? 430 00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:49.039 I do, and it's only me wearing yogurt pants. Did I say yoga 431 00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.239 pants? I said yogurt pants. You don't know what those are. You're 432 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:54.880 gonna have to subscribe to my OF to figure it out. And it's not 433 00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:01.239 pretty and it's not cheap. But hey, I'm providing the greatest number of 434 00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:07.639 pleasure points by me flexing my booty muscles in my yogurt pants to the greatest 435 00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:22.360 number of people. So go chew on that, son, core Cagri Kagar 436 00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:30.840 can't read your Turkish script? What's up, Turk? You gotta un mute 437 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:36.920 man? Got on mute man, Hello, Sir. I was in another 438 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:43.599 space film and if I may. I want to read you something from regard 439 00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:49.639 from what Mary you said, from something. I want to read from something 440 00:46:52.239 --> 00:47:07.320 what kouran uh huh okay, I wonder your reaction. Okay, okay, 441 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.559 theah, okay, let me give me. I got my Quran right here 442 00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:20.679 where you at. Just tell me the number. I can't tell what you're 443 00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:27.480 saying now, you know, I can't tell this number because this course in 444 00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:30.159 front of me did not just see it. But let me check it from 445 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:52.199 okay, uh okay, tell you what you go find that and we'll come 446 00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:55.440 back to you here in a minute. We'll come back. We'll come back 447 00:47:55.480 --> 00:48:00.239 to you in a minute. You find that, just request to speak again. 448 00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:02.480 I'll come back to you next, I promise. Knock Castle, what's 449 00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:15.360 up? Somebody said, Amazon and Customer Support called me up top Lobster where 450 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:16.639 you had there? You dropped off. I was looking forward to talk to 451 00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:23.199 you. He just keeps popping out top Lobster. You know. It's like 452 00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:27.920 it's like the guy called top Lobster. It's like he calls in, you 453 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:36.960 know, and then he squawned. Go ahead, man, guys, you 454 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:39.559 gotta have your mic permission turned on if you want to come on and talk, 455 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:52.639 and then you got to unmute James McPhee, right, yeah, sure, 456 00:48:53.519 --> 00:49:00.599 Hey, you don't want to be there. What how's it going, 457 00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:02.320 Jay, how are you? Oh? Yeah, that was a Jordan Peterson. 458 00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.800 Okay, what's up man? Not too bad? Not too bad? 459 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:09.760 Yeah, I was just wondering, you know, it's it worth having a 460 00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:16.239 conversation that in all of Christendom, you know, with after the Reformation, 461 00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:21.079 that before the Reformation we kind of lived in a theocracy. God was number 462 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:25.599 one in our society and our civilization mm hmm. And then you had the 463 00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:29.960 Reformation, and out of that you had John Law, liberalism and Enlightenment. 464 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:37.239 And I think the god for for liberal, for liberal and the libertarian is 465 00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:39.239 individual freedom. I think that's their god. Oh yeah, absolutely. In 466 00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:45.119 fact, it's the same premise as Crowley, right, do what thou wilt? 467 00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:51.119 Oh, and Neopagans have, which is wicked people believe in something similar 468 00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:54.280 as well. Well. The neo Pagans and the Wicca actually comes from Crowley. 469 00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:59.920 So Gerald Gardner, who's the father of modern Wicca, studied the rank 470 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:04.679 of the Oto, which is Croley's thing before he created wiccaus So's it's a 471 00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:07.360 completely ahistorical, made up thing. In fact, we were laughing. I 472 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:14.079 did a whole livestream making fun of his the documentary about his grimoire. Dude 473 00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:16.440 literally wrote his grimoire on legal pad. Okay, we're supposed to think this 474 00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:23.679 is some ancient text. It's written on damn legal pad. Bro It is 475 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.880 funny. But anyway, Yeah, I think you're right that. And I 476 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:32.960 forgot to mention that Libertarians and Marxists have the exact same end goal. They 477 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:37.119 all believe in the withering way of the state. Oh you didn't know Marx's 478 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:44.840 libertarian digit. Yeah. And for the Marxist their god, you know, 479 00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:47.880 more than likely, maybe it's a bit of a straw man, but more 480 00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:51.760 than likely their god is the community and equality, as that's the god that 481 00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:58.719 they worship. Yes, at the lower levels, the highest levels of of 482 00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:04.519 them are Satanists and Sapparians explicitly so read the book Marks and Satan by Richard 483 00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:10.639 Bernbrand for example. Okay, our Turkish friend is back. Can you pronounce 484 00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:23.920 it? So what's the surah? Yes? It is three thirty three two, 485 00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:36.599 three thirty seven. I will read Okay, okay in beginning, indeed, 486 00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:44.800 allah favorite Adam My family of Avadam and family of Immland being from each 487 00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:49.880 other's limage over the people of the time. And Allah is the one who 488 00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:54.079 is best knows best. When the wife of Imrand, I'm the mother of 489 00:51:54.159 --> 00:52:00.719 the eric, said Myra, I surely don't have the word what's in my 490 00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:07.719 womb for you, referring that she wants to raise Mary as a clergy and 491 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:15.320 none of God accept it for me. You surely are the one who hears 492 00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:21.199 best, knows best. And when she delivered her, she said, Myra, 493 00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:25.559 I have definitely delivered a female. Her aunts is all us speaks now 494 00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:30.800 yet knows better what she has delivered. Now, please note this town. 495 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:37.840 Wife of Emna says she was asking for a male to raise him as a 496 00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:45.400 man of book and a man of religion. But as Mary born as a 497 00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:51.559 female, she was surprised. You see, she was actually didn't want it 498 00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:55.400 because she wants to read the man of religion. And Allah says, here 499 00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:00.960 all that knows better was she is delivered. This is in Please notice not 500 00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:06.920 and all that keeps talking male is not like female. Sorry, a wife 501 00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:13.639 of emails keeps talking male, male is not like female. There, preferring 502 00:53:13.719 --> 00:53:20.800 that females cannot be a clearly yet and surely I have named her Mary, 503 00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:24.840 and indeed I make her and her worry. What's the argument here is, 504 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:36.480 I'm conident saw her accepted Mary with a beautiful acceptance. Now I'm rereading thirty 505 00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:42.760 seven. And he made her grow as a beautiful plant. Okay, po 506 00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:47.280 motisto, he made her grow as a beautiful plant. And and may the 507 00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:52.440 carrier I got and told to marry that she did not deliver pieces I love. 508 00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:54.039 I can't. I can't understand half of what you're saying. What's the 509 00:53:54.159 --> 00:54:01.360 argument, man? Argument here? Look? This is this is my lated 510 00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:10.280 to Mary in all I said while being rifle, Mary's gender? And does 511 00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:15.760 somebody question Mary's gender? Yes? Yes, yes yes bro. This is 512 00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:17.079 not even on topic, no idea what you're saying. I'm not trying to 513 00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:21.119 be mean to you, but man, this is just like, what does 514 00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:24.119 Mary's gender have to do with anything that we're talking about? And who even 515 00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:28.800 questions Mary's gender? I mean, sorry, man, I'm just I can't 516 00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:38.159 Anglo yet. Hey, j how are you doing? Hey? I had 517 00:54:38.199 --> 00:54:42.400 a question for you on Islam. So I'm an orthodox Christian. I was 518 00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:45.880 Christmian on Holy Saturday, but I had a question on graduation. Oh, 519 00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:50.000 thank you. I had an idea question on this whole idea of Abrahammrick religions. 520 00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:52.440 So you put it on a tweet a couple of days ago, weeks 521 00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:55.320 ago, about how we don't believe in the same God, how we don't 522 00:54:55.320 --> 00:55:00.119 believe in the same God as Muslims just because they say, oh, we 523 00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:05.719 believe this historical person of Abraham, we believe that he worship this God, 524 00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:08.719 so that means we believe the same God, but just interpret it differently. 525 00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:14.239 And I just want to hear your take on this because you understand, you 526 00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:19.639 understand that Muslims will tell you very clearly that it's not the trendity. So 527 00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:22.000 Muslims tell you it's not the same God. So the only people making up 528 00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:25.320 this idea that we all worship the same God is the people who believe in 529 00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:30.800 the Roman Catholic natural theology. No, I hear this from a humanistic Muslims, 530 00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:34.480 right, right, Okay, but but that's true. But my argument 531 00:55:34.519 --> 00:55:37.079 against them usually is that, well, you can't make this lower condom common 532 00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:42.559 denominator be the God of Abraham or whatever, because like, who's to say 533 00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.679 that a Hindu can't claim that oh we believe in the same creed or we 534 00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:49.880 believe well, I mean that's what Vatican, Vatican two, whatever, Vatican 535 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:55.400 Tott says Hindus are part of that. Oh really, yeah, says Hindus 536 00:55:55.440 --> 00:56:00.039 also worship the One True God. Well, my my against them is that, 537 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:05.159 well, we can't use that this historical person of Abraham as our indicator 538 00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:07.159 of we just believe in the same intended God, but just interpreted differently. 539 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:10.800 And my argument would be like, well, Hindu can just say we believe 540 00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:16.039 the same creator or Zoroastrian or a Jew or Anostic or whatever. So our 541 00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:21.079 point has to be Christ because like that's essential to Well, it's Christ and 542 00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:24.280 the Triad, right, and every Orthodox person knows that Abraham worship the Triad 543 00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:31.840 exactly. That's the point of the Reube love Islond. So yeah, all 544 00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:37.159 right, I just wanted to hear. Yeah. I mean there's other points 545 00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:39.039 too, which is, like you get really philosophical with it. It's called 546 00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:47.440 the the undiscernibility of intentionality and epistemic context. Right, so just because the 547 00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:52.920 word, for example, monotheism is used, we don't necessarily know who the 548 00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:58.000 reference is, Like you're pointing out, I could be a I could be 549 00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:00.960 a theistic Satanist and I believe in one God. You believe in one God, 550 00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:07.599 therefore we believe in the same God. But just because well, well, 551 00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:10.199 isn't that the whole point though? You mean, just interpret it differently? 552 00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:14.639 Well, yeah, exactly, interpreted differently means different reference. Your one 553 00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:17.760 God is Jesus, My one God is Satan. So you can't just you 554 00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:22.760 can't get around us by saying, well, it's just interpreted differently, exactly 555 00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:27.000 right, because it's also the quantifier shift fallacy. Right, That's like saying, 556 00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:30.000 well, I come from one mother. You come from one mother, 557 00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:31.880 therefore we all come from the same mother. That's just that's a fallacy. 558 00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:37.800 Yeah, thanks for answering that. Yeah, those are good, those are 559 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:40.119 good points. I think you make a great point there about how to respond 560 00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:49.400 to some of these types of arguments. Let's see, by the way, 561 00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:52.679 if we got some black Heber Israelites that want to call in, if you 562 00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:54.320 we've got Muslims that want to call in, it doesn't have to be about 563 00:57:54.320 --> 00:58:07.880 libertarianism. King Alisar, he was in waiting for a long time. Yes, 564 00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:12.920 sir, well, I don't want to take up too much time, 565 00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:17.400 but I've been kind of just getting into a lot of these differences between Catholicism 566 00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:21.639 and Orthodoxy, so it's kind of sent me down the rabbit hole. But 567 00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:28.079 I had personally, I just wanted to pick your brain on this. Are 568 00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:34.679 you aware that Bonaventure attempts to ground a type because I'm very captivated by the 569 00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:38.320 transcendental argument in rather than natural theology, Like natural theology just seems dangerous to 570 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:43.639 me, so I want to find it sort of and I know you might 571 00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.719 think this is impossible, but are you with that Bonaventure at least attempts to 572 00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:52.159 ground a type of Catholic presuppositionalism. I have a quotation, but you probably 573 00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:55.800 might be aware of this already. Yeah. I mean, I think at 574 00:58:55.800 --> 00:59:01.239 that time, when you had more of an influence of Augustinian thought, you 575 00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:08.079 might have people tending towards those types of moves. But it's not it's still 576 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:10.519 not going to be tagged. I mean, I think Richard of Saint Victor, 577 00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:14.880 like he tried to he tried to show that there's trinities in nature, 578 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:19.519 but I mean he's getting that from like people in the Orthodox East, like 579 00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:23.199 Saint Maximus, who thinks that there's little trinities in nature. So, but 580 00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:28.599 that isn't necessarily the same thing as the transcendental argument, where we're trying to 581 00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:35.199 ground knowledge as a whole in God. But wouldn't you say that the transcedential 582 00:59:35.320 --> 00:59:38.639 argument comes from sort of seblings. It's not explicitly said in the Fathers, 583 00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:42.519 but it's based you know, Van Till, I think is a Calvinist. 584 00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:45.960 But it's not explicitly said in the Fathers, but we can still use it 585 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:50.280 as orthodoxical. Well, John Damascus explicitly does use a transcendental argument. So 586 00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:53.280 in the Fount of Knowledge, that's the first page. That's Yeah, I 587 00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:57.639 was reading that referen Could you explain that a little to me, because I 588 00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:00.760 was trying to just say I wanted it inexplicit grounding from the Church Fathers to 589 01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.199 you know, support it. I mean, it's the first page of the 590 01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:07.920 Fountainology says that what would we say to somebody who you know, denied the 591 01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:10.239 possibility of logic argumentation at all? And he says that, well, you 592 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:15.400 would still be using logic and augmentation to argue against logical argumentation. So and 593 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.559 he's just pulling out from Aristotle's metaphysics. Yeah, yeah, all right, 594 01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:22.800 I think I'll look into that. And then secondly, this is sort of 595 01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:25.719 more on topic with the whole libertarian thing. It just got me thinking, 596 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:35.320 go ahead, Oh yeah, I know you do. You do like film 597 01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:38.559 interpretation stuff with the esoteric Hollywood, right, Yeah, I wrote two books 598 01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:44.320 and did a TV show. Yeah, so this is it's gonna sound kind 599 01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:47.360 of retarded, but I'm kind of retarded in this way. Have you ever 600 01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:52.519 been Nolan's a Batman trilogy and the final one do you see? And I 601 01:00:52.599 --> 01:00:54.480 know Nolan's all over the place with his sort of thing, but it's still 602 01:00:54.760 --> 01:01:02.559 interesting. There's a sort of juxta position between at the final speech of the 603 01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:07.119 antagonist sort of going on and on about a sort of Marxist Yeah. I 604 01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:12.840 in fact, I commented on the libertarian elements versus communist elements when I first 605 01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:15.599 wrote analysis back at the time. Oh did you did you comment on this 606 01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:21.960 specifically? Yeah? Okay, then I thought I was bringing something. But 607 01:01:22.119 --> 01:01:24.719 that's interesting, But but you do see the sort of like almost mephistle in. 608 01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:28.239 Yeah, I wrote, I wrote a whole essay on it. Yeah 609 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:29.719 you can go. I'm not trying to be rude, but yeah, you 610 01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:38.480 can go read my essay on Dark Knight and all that. Jonathan Ta, 611 01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:49.119 Jonathan Tata, what's up, dude? Can you hear it? Say? 612 01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:52.840 What? Can you hear me? Yeah? Kind of? What's up? 613 01:01:52.920 --> 01:02:00.000 Man? Yeah? What's I'll be photowing you for a while. Uh huh. 614 01:02:00.719 --> 01:02:07.239 I have a question about the tug argument. Okay, Yeah, why 615 01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:10.760 is it? Why is anything problematic that the argument is is so colored? 616 01:02:12.119 --> 01:02:15.639 I keep hearing you say that it's because the argument is a metad logical argument, 617 01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:21.719 but I can't really understand why it's solves the problem, right, because 618 01:02:22.039 --> 01:02:25.840 it's making the point that at a certain level, all authority claims will be 619 01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:31.000 circular. So it's that's just restating the point that there's nothing that's self evident. 620 01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:38.199 Yeah, but can't everybody can't. Can't anybody just makes such a claim, 621 01:02:38.239 --> 01:02:44.519 and can can't anybody just because no, because then you would have to 622 01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:49.599 give an account for the possibility of knowledge through how your system is coherent. 623 01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:54.239 So it's not saying that everybody's systems are circular, so we're all just caught 624 01:02:54.280 --> 01:02:59.320 in circularity. It's saying that, at a basic level, since nothing is 625 01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:02.880 self evident and all ultimate authority claims are going to be self referencing. For 626 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:08.960 example, can you define words without using words or can you explain meaning without 627 01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:13.400 assuming that words have meaning? No, So, at a very basic level, 628 01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:15.599 a lot of things end up being circular like this. It doesn't mean 629 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:20.239 all arguments are circular. So that's two different things. That's why there's different 630 01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:23.800 types of logic, different types of claims about logic. There's first order, 631 01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:28.320 second order, So second order or metal level is like raising it to a 632 01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:31.400 higher level. Right, there's the proposition P is true or P therefore q, 633 01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:35.920 and then there's the truth of the proposition P there for Q, or 634 01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:38.239 a statement about the proposition P there for q, and then there's a savment 635 01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:42.400 about the statement P there for q. So these are all these are all 636 01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:45.719 just raising the bar at a higher level, and that can go on into 637 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:52.559 infinity. That's the point of Tortoise and Achilles by Lewis Carroll. So you 638 01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:55.800 know you don't understand how that's different than saying that, Yeah, okay, 639 01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:08.039 I question why how how do you like justify the author exposition the only fundy 640 01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:11.199 So we've done about twenty we've done about twenty podcasts on this. You can 641 01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:15.000 go look it up, but I do not really want to do rehash all 642 01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:20.079 the TAG arguments today. I've literally done probably twenty podcasts and talks on how 643 01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:23.440 do we get to tag or how do we get to orthodoxy? You're from 644 01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:34.719 TAG? Justin what's up? Man? Oh? Hey? Am I have 645 01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:39.119 a speaker now? Yeah? What's up? Man? Oh hey? So 646 01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:43.039 yeah, I just want to say I appreciate your, uh, your positions 647 01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:46.639 on libertarianism. I have, you know, I was very much libertarian for 648 01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:51.880 a while and have been moving away from that in parts to people like you 649 01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:57.559 really uh, you know, showing it for what it is and how without 650 01:04:57.679 --> 01:05:02.519 moral underpinning it is very much yeah, very much more uh you know, 651 01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:09.360 self serving and you know, pleasure seeking than anything else. So yeah, 652 01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:14.039 my main question that is going to bring up today was so I'm a Protestant. 653 01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:17.320 I guess you could say evangelical. I'm not sure you know really how 654 01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:23.119 people defind Matt. But I'm you know, I'm looking at looking an Orthodoxy, 655 01:05:23.159 --> 01:05:26.320 you know, pretty heavily recently. And something I've noticed is that, 656 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:30.400 you know, the uh, the procession argument of you know, between Catholics 657 01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:34.559 and orthodox seems to be a very pretty big issue. And I don't know 658 01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:39.519 why I've studied, you know, I've been there's a lot of studies of 659 01:05:39.559 --> 01:05:45.679 the Holy Spirit. Is this a difference between difference between a monarchical tranitarianism and 660 01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:51.000 true monotheism, mainly namely that there's one God, the Father Almighty versus a 661 01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:59.400 diad a father son that becomes a new unity that that uh precedes a new 662 01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:04.639 a third person. So like the kind of position then is the diet? 663 01:06:04.760 --> 01:06:11.280 Is that what you're saying, because okay, so yeah, so you say 664 01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:14.719 the points that the reason that is the point of contention is because it ultimately 665 01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:19.280 affects the nature of the God that is being correct and then uh, there's 666 01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:25.079 a bunch of things that flow from that mistake. So we think that created 667 01:06:25.159 --> 01:06:30.119 grace flows from that mistake because ultimately, even philioqua doesn't stand alone as like 668 01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:32.880 a sole problem in a vacuum. The philioqua is a result of absolute divine 669 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:39.960 simplicity, which is the Latin view of adopting essentially the Neoplatonic definition of what 670 01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:45.360 divine simplicity is. And that's what leads to the speculations about ways to differentiate 671 01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:49.800 the persons via a double hypostatic procession, namely the philioque, so that then 672 01:06:49.880 --> 01:06:54.760 leads to created grace, which is a romanceelic dogma that then leads to other 673 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:59.960 problems in the papacy, the papacy basically becoming the vehicle through which the whole 674 01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:02.800 spirit comes to the church. None of that would have ever had happened had 675 01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:05.880 they not had this mistake in the triad. And if you want to read 676 01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:09.920 a good book on that, it's called Church Papsy Schism by Philip Schard. 677 01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:13.280 Okay, excellent. Yeah, I was gonna ask for you, how any 678 01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:15.039 reference readings, So I will definitely make a note of that and begin and 679 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:18.079 I really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely good questions. Also, I mean 680 01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:23.800 we've lectured through Sashensky's whole uh Philly Oquay book, so you can go find 681 01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:28.800 that podcast too. Only feel like Hot Texas Homestead Yikes, it sounds like 682 01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:33.079 that. Sounds like them pig the fat people in the in the Lost Highway 683 01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:42.559 filming dirty movies. That's a that's a joke. What's up Homestead home Slide? 684 01:07:44.320 --> 01:07:48.800 What's up? Faster balls? Hei? We miss you down at church. 685 01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:55.519 We want you to give an offering two dollars, uh, two dollars 686 01:07:55.559 --> 01:08:00.360 offering for the for the mega food everything counts. I got a question. 687 01:08:01.119 --> 01:08:05.400 So I'm trying to figure out how to I guess how to word, but 688 01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:14.639 how do you I guess, rectify with with the with the Eastern Orthodox position? 689 01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:19.119 Uh? With and excuse me for for for signing off. I'm just 690 01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:23.600 still trying to figure out how how it words? But how how do you 691 01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:30.439 rectify the position with the church to to like American? Uh? You probably 692 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:32.239 discussed a little bit about it earlier. I didn't catch the entirety of the 693 01:08:33.079 --> 01:08:39.279 of the of your of your talk. But how do you rectify it with 694 01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:44.479 with the classical liberal I guess position or the the why do I have why 695 01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:47.960 do I have the do you mean no, just just the just the foundation 696 01:08:48.159 --> 01:08:56.560 of of of the American system with the constitution not really not really rectifying. 697 01:08:56.600 --> 01:09:00.640 But how how do you explain the Eastern North position with it? When when 698 01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:05.399 the Eastern Orthodox, Uh, they're they're right there, They're part of the 699 01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:11.159 part of the state. Is that would that be correct in your in your 700 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:15.199 argument part of the state. I don't understand anymore, right, it would 701 01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:19.079 the East the Church is part of the state, right, the church is 702 01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:25.319 because there's not a separation of church and state. Well, we don't try 703 01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:31.439 to. We don't try to force we can't force the government to be uh 704 01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:35.119 you know, holding to what we think is the traditional position, and the 705 01:09:35.199 --> 01:09:40.520 church is not. The church can exist in any country even I mean the 706 01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:45.680 Roman Pagan Empire didn't accept that position of the Orthodox Church, right, so, 707 01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:49.399 uh so it really has nothing to do with like, I don't have 708 01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:58.239 to reconcile Orthodoxy to American government. Yeah, yeah, I get that, 709 01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:03.000 and it's I'm just trying to question how the because you were you were speaking 710 01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:11.880 about the h I guess a preferred system would be the church. Yeah, 711 01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:15.079 we don't go for politics first, right, so just like in the early 712 01:10:15.199 --> 01:10:18.399 Church, they didn't try to force everybody into some right wing political system. 713 01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:24.239 They converted the empire and then the empire converted, So likewise, we would 714 01:10:24.319 --> 01:10:28.399 convert America. We're not trying to top down make the government orthodox. That's 715 01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:38.560 would be a giant failure. Cash yus, what's up? But thank you 716 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:45.560 for that question you got on mute man am Iona. So I was curious 717 01:10:45.720 --> 01:10:51.359 in there seemed to be these mistakes like the king, we already did this, 718 01:10:51.600 --> 01:11:10.000 We've already had this conversation with you, Zechariah. What's up? You 719 01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:19.319 got on you man? This guy just loves to call in and like complain 720 01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:23.880 about the Book of Daniel. He does it all the time. Go ahead, 721 01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:30.079 Zachary, get on you man. What's up? Ja? Can you 722 01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:36.920 hear me? So? I was going over your disproving the five ways of 723 01:11:36.960 --> 01:11:45.920 a quietness and you mentioned how the it doesn't logically follow there needs to be 724 01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:56.800 an ultimate cause if when you're from empiricism, correct, correct, So with 725 01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:05.520 regards to you, you mentioned the Hume David Hume. You mentioned the Bill 726 01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:10.199 R. Bulls and the causation that we don't we see it an A and 727 01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:13.640 MB but we don't see right, Well, we called that causation. We're 728 01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:19.159 not literally seeing causation right right? And I'm not you know, I'm a 729 01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:25.239 Christian. But I just was wondering, obviously we can could it be argued 730 01:12:25.439 --> 01:12:30.199 or from my perspective, I just need more clarity. I guess, like 731 01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:32.960 we see the one ball hitting the other ball, and we see it. 732 01:12:33.319 --> 01:12:36.600 I mean, we call it causation, and I know that's just a name 733 01:12:36.640 --> 01:12:42.760 we've given, but I'm just wondering how you wouldn't like we can surely you 734 01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:45.960 can imp you could imply tested like the one ball hitting the other or something. 735 01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:47.800 Yeah, but if you read David Hume again, if you read David 736 01:12:47.880 --> 01:12:51.960 Hume, he points out that testing this does not prove that it is the 737 01:12:53.079 --> 01:12:56.159 thing. So, in other words, you can test it all you want, 738 01:12:56.319 --> 01:12:59.760 it doesn't prove that it's an actual metaphysical principle out in reality, because 739 01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:02.720 you know, ever know that that regularity in nature is actually a real thing 740 01:13:02.800 --> 01:13:05.720 out there, or that it always holds. So the point is that it 741 01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:12.520 assumes induction. How do you prove induction empirically? You can't? Okay, 742 01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:15.439 Okay, so you can Okay, so you can assume that that's what's happening. 743 01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:18.920 But then you could then say that that's that's just what everything is. 744 01:13:19.239 --> 01:13:23.239 Yeah, And it begs the question to assume that that's what's happening, because 745 01:13:23.279 --> 01:13:27.600 that's what's in question. Okay. Yeah, And we're we're not saying that 746 01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:31.640 it's not what's happening. We're just pointing out that calling it causation is an 747 01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:38.119 interpretation of the phenomena. The phenomena itself does not give you a raw experience 748 01:13:38.199 --> 01:13:43.279 of causation unless you assume that it does, but that's the thing in question. 749 01:13:43.720 --> 01:13:46.960 So in other words, it ends up being a metaphysical assumption that's not 750 01:13:47.199 --> 01:13:53.439 proven by the phenomena. It's a metaphysical assumption read into the phenomena. And 751 01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:58.520 it is true that it is causation is occurring, but the way that we 752 01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:01.640 know that and justify that is because we have metaphysical presuppositions part of a worldview, 753 01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:08.640 not that the actual empirical data gives us this like raw experience of causation, 754 01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:14.479 because you can never approve that empirically. It's always just assumed. So 755 01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:18.880 the point is that empiricism is not true, and empirical philosophies that is, 756 01:14:19.399 --> 01:14:24.600 I'm not saying that we don't have an empirical element to our philosophy. Empiricist 757 01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:29.760 philosophies are false. So is it kind of similar to the problem of induction, 758 01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:38.800 where it is just because you see it absolutely correct. Okay, alright, 759 01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:42.720 And if you think about it, humans just making the same argument for 760 01:14:42.880 --> 01:14:48.079 these different domains. He's saying t loos is not self evident. Causation is 761 01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:53.039 not self evident, induction is not self evident. Laws of logic are not 762 01:14:53.119 --> 01:14:56.680 self evident. They seem to be the case. But how do I justify 763 01:14:56.760 --> 01:15:00.720 that without without assuming the thing in question? If I'm an imperial Yeah for 764 01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:04.479 sure. I mean, yeah, Hume's interesting because he is, like you 765 01:15:04.560 --> 01:15:08.119 say, over time, he's just very honest, and he takes these things 766 01:15:08.439 --> 01:15:15.479 logical conclusion. Yeah, kind of shoots the entire empiricist enterprise in the foot 767 01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:20.680 exactly, absolutely, And that's why we utilize his argumentation, not accepting his 768 01:15:20.840 --> 01:15:25.600 worldview, but pointing out those are good arguments. If I'm an empiricist, 769 01:15:25.640 --> 01:15:28.840 I should be consistent and that leads me to human skepticism. Well, if 770 01:15:28.880 --> 01:15:31.199 I'm a human skeptic, then I don't get to use all these arguments as 771 01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:35.039 if they're self evident or against Christianity. Now to that guy that was in 772 01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:40.880 the chat over here on YouTube saying Jesus is not the Messiah, Jesus was 773 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:45.640 not Hebrew. This is just idiotic. So tenebris, if you want to 774 01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:48.800 come into the chat, you're welcome to there's the link to the to the 775 01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:53.920 call in. All right, Dusty Balls, I know I'm gonna get some 776 01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:58.960 quality argumentation from Dusty Bowls. He is the cousin of Randy Balls, by 777 01:15:58.960 --> 01:16:09.920 the way, like it's all Ja. There after you do there after you 778 01:16:10.039 --> 01:16:12.920 they know you, They know you was doing a bunch of money laundering at 779 01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:17.479 that pat at that church. What was to me? Uh, Joe, 780 01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:21.439 you know you can hear me through ahead. Awesome man, Jay, I'd 781 01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:27.000 love to state a position. Get your take on it, Jay, Like 782 01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:30.079 you, I'm confusin subject man, your work on the Bad Guys did it? 783 01:16:30.199 --> 01:16:33.239 Dude lectures on trash and quote man, snap snap snap man. But 784 01:16:33.359 --> 01:16:36.439 yeah, I'll be glad to the positioned him. Okay, let's say what 785 01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:42.399 are you going? Thank you? Okay. My position, Jay is I 786 01:16:42.680 --> 01:16:46.600 start from a way of confusion, a way of confusion. I would think 787 01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:51.920 that my position, Jay, is that I see three things. Absolutely. 788 01:16:53.000 --> 01:17:02.600 I see infinity, distinction, and the the happening of that. I think, 789 01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:09.600 Jay, this is a reflection of the trinity that's you're speaking of. 790 01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:15.520 I think that it is. When I see infinity, I see it's kind 791 01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:18.479 of like the imagination. It's kind of I can see all the possible moments 792 01:17:18.560 --> 01:17:24.840 that I could be experiencing as my imagination. That's infinity. I see the 793 01:17:25.039 --> 01:17:29.760 one manifest reality in front of me. That's the distinct, And I see 794 01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:34.800 the happening coming from Infinity to the Infinity in front of me, and it's 795 01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:39.800 happening. I think it's the reflective of the Trinity. I believe. You 796 01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:44.840 tell me if it is the Father as Infinity, the Son as the distinct 797 01:17:45.319 --> 01:17:48.560 and I call it the Mother, but Holy Spirit as the happening between the 798 01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:54.720 two. Jay is this And this is very close to something that Augustine argues 799 01:17:55.399 --> 01:18:01.479 on the Trinity. He also kind of makes similar analogy arguments in confessions. 800 01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:08.760 So I wouldn't say it's totally out of place, but I think there's a 801 01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:12.600 little bit of ambiguity and confusion because, for example, as Bird's not a 802 01:18:12.680 --> 01:18:15.880 woman, so she's not a mother. Holy Spirit is a third person of 803 01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:19.720 the Godhead of the Trinity, and equally divine to the Father and the Son. 804 01:18:21.079 --> 01:18:26.760 And just because there's some manifestations of the Chicaana or something like that that 805 01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:30.119 might reference to the Holy Spirit doesn't mean the Holy Spirit's a woman. So 806 01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:34.079 I think that a lot of times the danger isn't are there trinities in nature, 807 01:18:34.319 --> 01:18:40.600 it's rather that people think that the trinities that exist in nature are then 808 01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:44.760 read back into God and then the triad conforms to the created thing, when 809 01:18:44.760 --> 01:18:47.399 it's the other way around, created things conformed to the triad. So we 810 01:18:47.439 --> 01:18:54.319 have to start with the triad, not our speculations about created trinities. All 811 01:18:54.399 --> 01:18:58.600 Right, I understand I can use the mother aspect just kind of a cultural 812 01:18:59.520 --> 01:19:02.039 see it kind of thing, but yeah, they kind of take the whole 813 01:19:02.039 --> 01:19:05.079 position. I do see this kind of way of confusion. In my position 814 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:13.680 is that the reality is coming to me, and I understand I can't control 815 01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:17.359 it all, and so with that I yield I say, Okay, there's 816 01:19:17.399 --> 01:19:24.039 a higher power than the control I have over my experience. So I yielded 817 01:19:24.079 --> 01:19:29.199 that higher power. So if I continue into what's real, what's not real, 818 01:19:29.239 --> 01:19:34.680 what's going on in this kind of in this kind of position where it 819 01:19:34.760 --> 01:19:40.880 secure me, what I do know is absolute is that I am. That's 820 01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:45.199 it. I can't debate my own existence well, and I appreciate that. 821 01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:47.880 I'm gonna I'm gonna move on to the next one because that gets into like 822 01:19:47.960 --> 01:19:50.520 daycarts, and I don't think day carts. I think therefore I am is 823 01:19:50.520 --> 01:19:55.279 a very good argument. You can look up where we've critiqued to Deaycartes. 824 01:19:55.319 --> 01:20:00.079 But also again I think we have to go from divine revelation first, to 825 01:20:00.359 --> 01:20:03.439 know the trinity, at least as far as it's revealed to us in scripture 826 01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:08.439 and tradition. And then and then we can say, okay, there's elements 827 01:20:08.520 --> 01:20:13.680 in creation which image this triad. But we can't start with all these things 828 01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:16.319 about you know, time and distinctions and time and then read that back into 829 01:20:16.399 --> 01:20:20.680 God, uh, starting from the created, because that ends up usually putting 830 01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:28.640 us in really weird, weird positions. Let's see Walid Naim Wali name. 831 01:20:39.640 --> 01:20:44.479 All right, he's trying to connect, so you might have to come back 832 01:20:44.520 --> 01:20:48.439 out and come back in or something. It's not it's not working. So 833 01:20:49.119 --> 01:20:51.680 then we already go to you, James, We already did you, man. 834 01:20:51.720 --> 01:20:56.039 I don't know. People like why you keep raising? All right, 835 01:20:56.039 --> 01:20:59.960 you're going crazy with your hand raising here. But then we already we already 836 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:11.119 did you. What's up? Yeah, I'm yeah, what's up? It 837 01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:15.920 was actually to do with states rights? Okay, what's up? It was 838 01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:23.199 to do with states rights? What was it? Huh? The ward to 839 01:21:23.239 --> 01:21:29.800 State's eighteen sixty one to sixty five. I don't remember talking about states rights 840 01:21:29.880 --> 01:21:32.439 wars? What do you mean? It's just an interesting conversation you know, 841 01:21:32.479 --> 01:21:34.840 with the whole thing, and it's probably the most interesting case study you could 842 01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:41.840 do in politics, you know. Okay, all right, I'm not trying 843 01:21:41.880 --> 01:21:44.319 to be rude. I just don't understand, like, what how does that 844 01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:47.960 fit into what we were talking about? I mean, I understand states rights 845 01:21:48.000 --> 01:22:02.079 fits into it, but Matthew, yeah, I'm aware of the Civil War 846 01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:05.319 being about states rights. I know all that. I'm not talking to this 847 01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:12.079 guy. I'm talking to the chat. I'm aware. Yeah, what's up, 848 01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:18.920 Matthew? Oh hey, I was going Jack, can you hear your 849 01:22:19.239 --> 01:22:26.880 Yeah, what's up? I was wondering what you would think of a figure 850 01:22:27.079 --> 01:22:31.960 like him and Birch. Shoot, in many ways is a liberal, but 851 01:22:32.520 --> 01:22:36.079 I think he, like we would both agree, like private property is not 852 01:22:36.199 --> 01:22:42.119 bad. Marcuts aren't bad any of themselves. But a guy like like Birch, 853 01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:45.119 you know, he was hierarchy. I think, uh, the thing 854 01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:47.600 with Burke though, Yeah, I'm I'm aware understand all that. I think 855 01:22:47.640 --> 01:22:51.439 the thing with Burke though, is that he was a I think he was 856 01:22:51.479 --> 01:22:59.119 a right wing Mason. So that would be my main critique there, Satyam, 857 01:23:00.560 --> 01:23:01.680 we've got a Hindu bro on here. What's up? I don't think 858 01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:04.640 we were. Have we ever had a Hindu bro calling it? I don't 859 01:23:04.640 --> 01:23:13.079 think we ever have. How come you don't debate Hindus been? I'm mute, 860 01:23:13.119 --> 01:23:17.239 man, you're much done? Good? Can you hear me? Yes, 861 01:23:17.319 --> 01:23:24.399 sir? How are you? What's up? I'm doing good? Uh 862 01:23:25.079 --> 01:23:30.079 so I'm a Hindu? Will we and I don't see that in the title 863 01:23:30.279 --> 01:23:33.199 of this space. But i'd just i'd just like to know about your point 864 01:23:33.279 --> 01:23:41.640 of view about Hinduism. I think it's uh, polytheism and idolatry. Oh, 865 01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:45.119 you don't think it's monothism. Well it would be a theism maybe, 866 01:23:45.199 --> 01:23:49.439 but not mono theism. Oh it is monothism. Well, I mean if 867 01:23:49.479 --> 01:23:55.760 you want to redefine the word to mean that. Okay, Monotheism is about 868 01:23:55.840 --> 01:24:01.000 worshiping one God and the induscriptures talk about everything being all right. So that's 869 01:24:01.119 --> 01:24:12.800 that's not mono theism. That's pantheism is like a lot of God's right all 870 01:24:12.880 --> 01:24:31.600 right. So it's not gonna work. George, what's up? George? 871 01:24:31.800 --> 01:24:40.359 Much fun here? Can you hear me? Sir? Yeah? What's that? 872 01:24:40.520 --> 01:24:44.319 Man? Go ahead? First of all, thank you for your coming. 873 01:24:44.960 --> 01:24:48.359 I'm always a book Christian in Syria. I live in here right now. 874 01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:56.520 I must have a question like outside of the current pop I'm sorry again, 875 01:24:56.760 --> 01:24:59.119 it's not I'm not trying to be mean, but every time we do 876 01:24:59.279 --> 01:25:01.600 this people call in about not the topic. It drawsn't crazy, So no, 877 01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:14.359 tan gee, what's up? Nice to be back to one thousand live 878 01:25:14.439 --> 01:25:21.119 stream exactly, we've got over a thousand we only got two hundred and eighty 879 01:25:21.199 --> 01:25:24.840 nine likes. Come on, y'all, what's up? Y'all? Don't like 880 01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:30.840 this times? You gotta u mute man? All right? Though, yes, 881 01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:38.840 sir, I was curious about, like, there's been these people that 882 01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:43.399 I, uh soa I'm the next Protestant, and I've been trying to kind 883 01:25:43.479 --> 01:25:47.920 of look forward some type of Protestant justification, and I call them out for 884 01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:53.319 a lot of positions like for the quit and talk about the inconsistencies and problems 885 01:25:53.359 --> 01:25:58.680 with that, and a lot of times they will just start to adopt orthodox 886 01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:01.920 theology as Protestants. So a lot of times they will literally just like take 887 01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:06.760 it and claim like sure you can, we can just take all these things. 888 01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:10.520 I'm curious what you think about those people. I just like to start 889 01:26:10.600 --> 01:26:14.920 taking doctrines. I think it's a natural move Like I remember being Protestant, 890 01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:16.840 and when I was first looking at a Roman Catholicism, I remember thinking, 891 01:26:16.960 --> 01:26:20.560 oh, well, I can like be Protestant and then adopt these positions. 892 01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:25.560 And what they don't realize is that, first of all, all of the 893 01:26:25.640 --> 01:26:30.600 Orthodox doctrines hang or fall together. So, for example, if I adopt 894 01:26:30.119 --> 01:26:35.760 the Orthodox view of the triad, that also necessitates logically theologically the Orthodox doctrine 895 01:26:35.800 --> 01:26:41.359 of the essencenity distinction. The essencenitty distinction then affects my view of the sacraments 896 01:26:41.399 --> 01:26:44.600 in the Church, So I can't consistently hold to a Protestant doctrine of the 897 01:26:44.720 --> 01:26:47.800 church where I'm also trying to have an Orthodox view of the sacraments. It 898 01:26:47.880 --> 01:26:53.439 starts to make absolutely no sense. But an actual process and progress, that's 899 01:26:53.479 --> 01:26:56.920 typically what happens. Like it's a natural progression to where you start thinking, 900 01:26:57.640 --> 01:26:59.800 you know, oh well, maybe I can hold to you know, some 901 01:27:00.039 --> 01:27:02.279 on a real presence in the Eucharist, and then then you kind of grad 902 01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:04.560 well, maybe we need to have some kind of hierarchy in the church, 903 01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:08.800 so I'll be like a high Church Anglican. And then and then you gradually 904 01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:12.279 just realize, Okay, the Protestants are just wrong. So it's a it's 905 01:27:12.319 --> 01:27:15.359 a package deal. It's not a pick and choose thing. But I mean 906 01:27:15.399 --> 01:27:19.760 it makes sense because Protestantism is all about pick and choose. You also, 907 01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:23.880 I've heard you talking about like this triad a lot. I'm not super deep 908 01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:30.560 and orthodoxy. What was exactly the difference between triad theology and Trinitarian theology. 909 01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:31.960 It's just the Greek word for trinity. So and by the way, this 910 01:27:32.039 --> 01:27:38.479 shows how ignorant Trent Horne is because he thinks triad is an anti Trinitarian term, 911 01:27:39.079 --> 01:27:41.439 which is utterly dumb. I don't know where he got this idea. 912 01:27:41.880 --> 01:27:45.520 He by the way, he hasn't changed his statement on this in like a 913 01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:48.920 year of saying the same stupid thing. So the top Roman Catholic apologist doesn't 914 01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:54.159 even know that the standard Greek term for trinity is triad and that this is 915 01:27:54.279 --> 01:27:59.520 used amongst the Greek fathers. So does he supposed that he attends an Eastern 916 01:27:59.600 --> 01:28:01.319 right church, you didn't even know this. So anyway, not trying to 917 01:28:01.359 --> 01:28:05.319 be rude, but that's what triad means. So anyway, we get mad. 918 01:28:05.319 --> 01:28:09.479 I think I'm being mean everybody know, bro, what what's up? 919 01:28:09.560 --> 01:28:14.239 Man? We're not here to We can't debate state rights in the Civil War. 920 01:28:14.399 --> 01:28:18.199 Okay, that's not for you too, man, what's up? Did 921 01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:21.800 you want to make your final point? How was it going? Yeah? 922 01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:26.159 Originally, originally I was trying to make a point that all of Christendom has 923 01:28:26.199 --> 01:28:31.399 replaced the one true God with false gods of individual communism, also national socialism. 924 01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:34.279 But the Islamic world never did that. Why do you think that is 925 01:28:38.319 --> 01:28:42.720 Well? I think Islam is more directly theocratic, or at least it's supposed 926 01:28:42.760 --> 01:28:47.159 to be. But there actually have been quite a few movements that the CIA 927 01:28:47.279 --> 01:28:53.439 fostered, like the kla where they did blend communism in Islam. That's what 928 01:28:53.520 --> 01:29:00.760 that has actually happened. All these people who've already talked, keep calling, 929 01:29:00.840 --> 01:29:03.640 Like, if you've already called, don't don't clog up the thing here, 930 01:29:03.760 --> 01:29:15.600 keep calling in Siddhartha, they took their stone from here. They took their 931 01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:24.840 stones from here. Uh rand w would you like to call in? Anybody 932 01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:30.399 talking smack in the chat needs to call in. So this is just literally 933 01:29:30.479 --> 01:29:34.039 the stupidest idiocy God is is his own son. Okay, do you understand 934 01:29:34.079 --> 01:29:38.600 the word God picks out different things. Go ahead, man, what's up? 935 01:29:40.600 --> 01:29:45.920 Hear me? Hey? What's up? Yoh? What's up? Man? 936 01:29:46.560 --> 01:29:49.279 Yeah? So I was just wondering if you'd, like, if you'd 937 01:29:49.359 --> 01:29:56.119 answer the question like regarding the essence and us distinction. Yeah, right, 938 01:29:56.279 --> 01:30:04.039 So regarding this this problem, like would you agree that throughout those scriptures, 939 01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:09.520 like whether it be in the Old Testament when God is speaking things into creation, 940 01:30:10.039 --> 01:30:15.600 or when he's speaking through the prophets speaking before the Congregation of Israel, 941 01:30:15.720 --> 01:30:20.000 or in the New Testament where Jesus Christ is speaking, are the words that 942 01:30:20.119 --> 01:30:26.560 God's God is uttering these particular words, Like would you agree that these are 943 01:30:26.640 --> 01:30:32.680 like God's uncreated energies? Yeah, they're called logi. Right. So like 944 01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:40.159 when Augustin and I think it's Confessions book eleven, I didn't realm with the 945 01:30:40.239 --> 01:30:45.000 chapter away, Augustine is arguing like his reasoning through this thing things and is 946 01:30:45.039 --> 01:30:53.560 saying that God's words are like created, so right, correct? Right, 947 01:30:53.720 --> 01:30:58.199 So you need to read Saint Maximus who explains that the divine ideas are logie 948 01:30:58.279 --> 01:31:01.520 and they're uncreated. The vibe is a book, it's a physical thing that's 949 01:31:01.600 --> 01:31:05.960 created. The words on the pages are symbols, they're created symbols, but 950 01:31:06.119 --> 01:31:11.560 the actual referent what it's referring to are the thoughts of the logos, the 951 01:31:11.640 --> 01:31:15.960 LOGI. Right, So I was just pointing out accustomed to clarify my statement, 952 01:31:16.239 --> 01:31:18.840 So like about that, right, I understand? For example, Yeah, 953 01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:23.239 we would, we would reject and critique. Actually, doctor Bradshaw has 954 01:31:23.279 --> 01:31:29.039 a good critique of a lot of the uh neo Plutonian arguments in the Confessions, 955 01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:32.800 right, right, So about that? So for example, when Indual 956 01:31:32.840 --> 01:31:35.640 Testament, like I just want to say that, I'm like, there is 957 01:31:35.680 --> 01:31:39.119 Christ the service of his issue, so like I would put in to like 958 01:31:39.319 --> 01:31:42.359 know everything. So but again the Old Testament, when in the Book of 959 01:31:42.479 --> 01:31:48.600 Leviticus, where God is giving these temp temporary laws to Israel regarding a Puritan 960 01:31:48.640 --> 01:31:55.479 impurity regarding a sacrificial and temple offerings. Yeah, if the words that God 961 01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:58.960 is uttering, if these are increded energies, I think this acologically follows that 962 01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:04.680 the words a God saying is a eternity nature Like, then how if God's 963 01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:11.119 words are necessary, then how is it that God can give temporary commandments that? 964 01:32:12.720 --> 01:32:16.319 Yeah, this is covered in the Triads three, Section two or sat 965 01:32:16.560 --> 01:32:20.399 Gregory Palamas says that God can also act within time and space. This is 966 01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:26.159 the whole premise of the incarnation. So even though God's words are eternal. 967 01:32:27.319 --> 01:32:29.760 Roh, come on, you're breathing so loud in the phone, man. 968 01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:36.119 Even though God's words are eternal, he can still manifest in time and space 969 01:32:36.239 --> 01:32:40.600 and also come and go in time and space. There's nothing limiting God from 970 01:32:40.640 --> 01:32:43.520 doing that. That's the whole premise of the incarnation. That the second person 971 01:32:43.840 --> 01:32:46.560 of the Godhead, not the Divine Essence, the second Hypostasis, not the 972 01:32:46.680 --> 01:32:50.399 Father, not the Holy Spirit, the second person of the Godhead, stepped 973 01:32:50.399 --> 01:32:54.960 into time and space, entered into a motive being that the other two persons 974 01:32:55.000 --> 01:32:59.479 did not, and he walked around and did things. This is Philippians two. 975 01:32:59.680 --> 01:33:04.079 This is the kinosis, not hinosis, kinosis of Philippians too. That 976 01:33:04.239 --> 01:33:09.640 he took on the form of a servant and limited himself, meaning that he 977 01:33:09.800 --> 01:33:14.199 willed not to exercise all of his divine powers and thus put himself into a 978 01:33:14.399 --> 01:33:17.439 mode of being. He was still omniscient, still omnipresident, but he's also 979 01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:24.600 uniquely present in Jerusalem, uniquely present in Capernaum. That's the unique mode of 980 01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:28.680 the incarnation, and that's part of the essen Center distinction. Correct, not 981 01:33:28.760 --> 01:33:32.439 all of God's actions are identical. So if you if we've already come to 982 01:33:32.479 --> 01:33:34.640 you man, we're going to the new people Rice, see what's up? 983 01:33:43.279 --> 01:33:48.239 Oh yo? So what's the best way to argue against his black keybrids? 984 01:33:48.359 --> 01:33:53.199 Do all that stuff? Because I know people who actually believe this. They 985 01:33:53.319 --> 01:33:57.479 just used like the most basic literary arguments like that passes with the hair thing. 986 01:33:58.640 --> 01:34:00.239 I mean, I don't know how you if people are like that, 987 01:34:00.720 --> 01:34:03.840 you know, uneducated, and they don't know what a suffix is, and 988 01:34:03.960 --> 01:34:11.319 they can't go and see that a Jew or Jews or Jewish refers to Yahudite, 989 01:34:11.840 --> 01:34:14.560 that it means the same thing as you can see here in the strong 990 01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:17.239 the very strongest definition that that guy read out, Like, I don't know 991 01:34:17.319 --> 01:34:21.039 what, like you're dealing with people who like are functionally illiterate, almost, 992 01:34:23.359 --> 01:34:26.119 I don't know, Like, I don't know, how do you How do 993 01:34:26.199 --> 01:34:30.279 you explain to somebody what a suffix is if they don't understand it. I 994 01:34:30.359 --> 01:34:33.119 mean, that's actually that that's actually a question. I don't know the answer 995 01:34:33.199 --> 01:34:46.159 to. Rico Sabe, what's it called? I was gonna ask you about 996 01:34:46.279 --> 01:34:51.079 I suppaly the thing this thing recently, the code in the Codex vaticandas if 997 01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:57.319 I'm saying that right, I had a little footnote beside one of the texts, 998 01:34:57.399 --> 01:35:00.760 one of the Greek texts, and it says something around like it was 999 01:35:00.840 --> 01:35:06.520 like fool and knave, why are you distorting the scriptures or something. It 1000 01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:13.479 was talking about something like that, And I've heard this from Muslims talking about 1001 01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:15.159 and they were, you know, trying to get a gotcha moment with that, 1002 01:35:15.640 --> 01:35:18.399 trying to say how like, oh, that's proof it's corrupted or something. 1003 01:35:18.960 --> 01:35:25.359 But my kind of response was like, if that's the case, it 1004 01:35:25.359 --> 01:35:30.399 would be it would be corruption that's actually that's against Jesus's divinity. It wouldn't 1005 01:35:30.439 --> 01:35:34.760 have been people. And like the time where Croix's meatchanis was what three fift 1006 01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:40.159 three hundred and fifty, So it wouldn't have been people trying to make him 1007 01:35:40.399 --> 01:35:43.119 divine. It would have would have ray been stated. I said, I'm 1008 01:35:43.159 --> 01:35:48.359 assuming it would have been like Gnostics or Aryans that were the culprits of like 1009 01:35:49.000 --> 01:35:53.159 what this little footnote said. And I was just wondering, what's your opinion 1010 01:35:53.239 --> 01:35:56.840 with that, I mean, yeah, I mean we followed the received text 1011 01:35:56.920 --> 01:36:02.000 generally in the Orthodox Church, which is not the oldest but is what we 1012 01:36:02.079 --> 01:36:06.319 accept by tradition, so you can't really divorce tradition from this. But I 1013 01:36:06.359 --> 01:36:13.840 don't think Codex Vaticanus is therefore like it's not necessarily some trick or they're trying 1014 01:36:13.920 --> 01:36:20.920 to like devalue Christ divinity or something like that. But yeah, I mean, 1015 01:36:20.960 --> 01:36:26.119 if if there was gonna be a devaluing of Christ divinity, it wouldn't 1016 01:36:26.159 --> 01:36:30.880 be from you know, sources within the church. That's kind of stupid Orthodox. 1017 01:36:31.520 --> 01:36:33.920 So every time we do this, we don't we don't actually get any 1018 01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:38.800 libertarians or atheists that call in. It's always just people calling in with a 1019 01:36:38.840 --> 01:36:41.199 bunch of Orthodox questions, which is fine. I'm not mad at people, 1020 01:36:41.279 --> 01:36:45.640 but it's like, like the topic is libertarianism, atheism, Catholicism, Protestism, 1021 01:36:45.760 --> 01:36:51.199 Islam, Okay, it's not like ask me int jurisdictional Orthodox questions or 1022 01:36:51.319 --> 01:36:54.359 whatever. And I'm not talking about the previous guy. I'm talk about the 1023 01:36:54.359 --> 01:36:58.520 other guy calling in about all the stuff off topic. Does any are there 1024 01:36:58.520 --> 01:37:01.840 anybody nobody can in these positions, like you can just call and make actual 1025 01:37:01.920 --> 01:37:09.319 arguments, like where are the people who can make these arguments? Dawn Tredder? 1026 01:37:19.680 --> 01:37:26.199 You have to ie mute man. Oh, I'm sorry. Thanks for 1027 01:37:26.600 --> 01:37:30.720 letting me ask you a question. What do you think about the idea that 1028 01:37:30.880 --> 01:37:36.880 your version of Christianity is, on its face a Jewish slash Roman slash pagan 1029 01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:42.680 myth and to believe in any of it as literal is the type of insanity? 1030 01:37:44.800 --> 01:37:46.800 Well, I mean, what's then? What's the other version that we 1031 01:37:46.880 --> 01:37:50.800 should believe in? Something gnostic? Is that where you're going? Yeah, 1032 01:37:51.199 --> 01:37:58.439 ancient alien pantheus gnosticism the true God. Yeah, I mean, let's let's 1033 01:37:58.479 --> 01:38:00.920 go with that. How do you know that ancient alien gnosticism is correct? 1034 01:38:01.560 --> 01:38:03.760 Well, we don't know it. That's why it's God, because it's a 1035 01:38:03.800 --> 01:38:11.199 mystery. Okay, So do you know that we can't know that? Yes, 1036 01:38:11.319 --> 01:38:13.680 as far as what knowing means to me, Okay, what does that 1037 01:38:13.840 --> 01:38:18.079 mean? It means I think it's right right now? Oh okay, but 1038 01:38:18.399 --> 01:38:23.479 maybe not tomorrow. So you don't know it. Well, if it's the 1039 01:38:23.560 --> 01:38:28.520 same tomorrow, that's even increases how right I think? Okay? What's so? 1040 01:38:28.600 --> 01:38:30.039 What's your account of knowledge? What are the reasons what are the good 1041 01:38:30.039 --> 01:38:35.720 reasons to believe what you're talking about? The Samerian texts and difference? Why 1042 01:38:35.760 --> 01:38:40.800 am I supposed to believe Samerian text makes more sense than the Jewish myth? 1043 01:38:41.199 --> 01:38:45.000 How do I know that makes more sense that God created in six thousand years 1044 01:38:45.039 --> 01:38:47.319 ago? Okay, So these ridiculous myths, which are even more ridiculous on 1045 01:38:47.399 --> 01:38:50.039 what you're calling ridiculous, we're supposed to believe that those are the ones that 1046 01:38:50.119 --> 01:38:57.319 make more sense. Well, I guess I just wanted your response. Yeah, 1047 01:38:57.640 --> 01:39:00.479 my response is, how do you know that? What's your account for 1048 01:39:00.520 --> 01:39:03.640 a pistemology? Oh? I told you that? Me think, No, 1049 01:39:03.680 --> 01:39:06.760 you didn't give an account. Okay, me think yeah, you think that's 1050 01:39:06.800 --> 01:39:11.520 a good argument. You think that that's a you don't even understand what a 1051 01:39:11.560 --> 01:39:15.079 pistemology is. You think that's a good argument. Not knowing things means thinking 1052 01:39:15.159 --> 01:39:16.960 it's right off to take in and all the information you can. Right, 1053 01:39:17.039 --> 01:39:19.439 that's not what it means. So you have no idea what you're talking about, 1054 01:39:30.239 --> 01:39:34.800 Trudor. My account for a pistemology is I think it's right at this 1055 01:39:34.880 --> 01:39:43.239 point. I mean that's and if if I mean, if you can't see 1056 01:39:43.279 --> 01:39:47.960 why that doesn't get you to justification. I mean, then there's this conversation 1057 01:39:48.039 --> 01:39:50.640 is not going to go anywhere. So look, it's open for them, 1058 01:39:50.680 --> 01:39:55.720 but you've got to present an argument. And that's not an argument saying that 1059 01:39:56.119 --> 01:39:59.279 I know it's right at this time, because that's what epistemology is, is 1060 01:39:59.399 --> 01:40:02.560 knowing what it is at this time. I mean, that's like so just 1061 01:40:02.720 --> 01:40:10.039 not I don't even know what to say to that. I mean, people 1062 01:40:10.079 --> 01:40:13.439 have no idea what it means to give an account for knowledge. So it's 1063 01:40:13.479 --> 01:40:17.279 open for him. For any libertarian, atheist, Roman, Catholic, Protestant, 1064 01:40:17.720 --> 01:40:20.680 Muslim, Islam, etcetera. Whatever, call in and you can make 1065 01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:25.600 your case, make your argument, request to speak. Nobody ever does. 1066 01:40:25.640 --> 01:40:29.960 It's just like people who know no clue what they're even talking about, stone 1067 01:40:29.960 --> 01:40:33.720 out of their mind. I mean, Tudor, you're gonna have to come 1068 01:40:33.760 --> 01:40:48.000 out and come back in Sean, what's up, Sean? Hi Jay? 1069 01:40:48.079 --> 01:40:53.479 Hello? Yeah, yeah, I just want to say thank you very much 1070 01:40:53.560 --> 01:40:58.239 for invites me on the show. Thank you very much for hosting me. 1071 01:40:59.640 --> 01:41:04.000 I discovered your channel about a month ago, and and you know, I'd 1072 01:41:04.039 --> 01:41:10.880 like to say I'm enjoying the content. Okay, I want to I want 1073 01:41:10.960 --> 01:41:15.920 to ask you. You have said before that if the uncreated eternal being creates 1074 01:41:16.000 --> 01:41:23.119 both good and evil, that this is gnostic or many can. But if 1075 01:41:23.319 --> 01:41:34.279 the being or the deity only creates good, isn't evil a philosophically independent existence? 1076 01:41:34.840 --> 01:41:43.439 Doesn't evil have a philosophically a philosophically independent existence, wouldn't create a dualist 1077 01:41:43.560 --> 01:41:47.239 reality with two uncreated beings? No, it was precisely while we don't think 1078 01:41:47.279 --> 01:41:53.079 that evil has any substance or being, it's a privation. Okay, But 1079 01:41:53.199 --> 01:41:59.239 if evil doesn't exist then okay, forgive me. Does this mean that evil 1080 01:41:59.279 --> 01:42:03.279 doesn't exist? Right? It means it's a privation like a lack, right, 1081 01:42:03.399 --> 01:42:06.199 like negative numbers or something like that. Right, those are analogies, 1082 01:42:06.439 --> 01:42:11.720 so too. For us, all evil is is the move of the will 1083 01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:15.520 away from the good. So it doesn't grant substance or being to evil. 1084 01:42:16.439 --> 01:42:21.039 Okay, So all things I just found on a spectrum between better and nothing. 1085 01:42:21.159 --> 01:42:26.720 Let's say, you know you you can only get better anyways, okay, 1086 01:42:26.800 --> 01:42:30.680 So all evil is is to act against God's law. That's it. 1087 01:42:30.960 --> 01:42:38.760 So when I you know, if I steal, there's nothing wrong with the 1088 01:42:38.840 --> 01:42:43.279 goods that I've stolen. Uh, there's nothing wrong with my hand that steals 1089 01:42:43.319 --> 01:42:47.720 the goods. The evil is in my will against the good, and it 1090 01:42:47.800 --> 01:42:51.279 doesn't mean my will becomes evil in itself. It just means that I'm acting 1091 01:42:51.359 --> 01:42:59.159 against my own nature, in God's nature. Okay, I mean, doesn't 1092 01:42:59.159 --> 01:43:02.760 that mean that the evil has some agency because you I'm the agent who acts 1093 01:43:02.800 --> 01:43:09.520 against the good to my own detriment, and it's a privation. So no, 1094 01:43:09.640 --> 01:43:13.560 it doesn't take on agency because evil is not a thing. Okay, 1095 01:43:14.920 --> 01:43:20.640 what is that which animated you to to commit the evil? Or? Well? 1096 01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:27.560 Free will is a potentiality, but potentiality itself isn't evil. Okay, 1097 01:43:29.399 --> 01:43:32.239 So so I have to read more, but I can show a one more 1098 01:43:32.279 --> 01:43:36.680 question. Does evil not have agency through the figure of Satan? How does 1099 01:43:36.720 --> 01:43:41.319 Satan? You know? Right? No, that's a fair question. Right. 1100 01:43:41.399 --> 01:43:45.760 So in our view, even the angelic nature itself is not bad, 1101 01:43:45.359 --> 01:43:51.239 but Satan moved to use his will as something bad. So no, even 1102 01:43:51.279 --> 01:43:59.159 even angelic nature remains good. Gregory, Gregory something I missed it? What 1103 01:43:59.279 --> 01:44:02.439 the last name was? So we had a bunch of people in the chatt 1104 01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:05.520 O here talking a bunch of smack. I don't know why don't these people 1105 01:44:05.600 --> 01:44:13.119 call in. That's just so annoying, just uh spamming a bunch of garbage 1106 01:44:13.199 --> 01:44:16.319 about anti trinitarians and then they won't come debate. There's the link. All 1107 01:44:16.319 --> 01:44:20.800 you gotta is right there calling Go ahead, gregor what's up? Hey, 1108 01:44:20.920 --> 01:44:25.560 what's up? Thanks very much for hosting this. I appreciate you putting on. 1109 01:44:25.960 --> 01:44:28.399 I think you might know my brother Timothy Gordon. I don't know. 1110 01:44:28.479 --> 01:44:32.159 Maybe you guys have debated before we're discussed. I mean, haven't I debated 1111 01:44:32.239 --> 01:44:36.119 you? No, No, I've never I've never chatted with you before. 1112 01:44:36.439 --> 01:44:42.199 I mean, hold on, are there like multiple Gordon brothers? Well, 1113 01:44:42.279 --> 01:44:44.319 yeah, there's three of us. Oh, I didn't know there was a 1114 01:44:44.399 --> 01:44:46.800 third. Excuse me, Well, I know, I'm just I'm the anonymous 1115 01:44:46.840 --> 01:44:49.800 third brother. Okay, well I said, are you trolling? This is 1116 01:44:49.800 --> 01:44:51.840 a joke or for real? No? No, no, not at all. 1117 01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:56.800 Hey, on those I've debated, I've debated David and then Timothy and 1118 01:44:56.840 --> 01:44:59.000 I have had a lot of conversations. We haven't had a formal debate. 1119 01:45:00.039 --> 01:45:03.920 Okay, I'm the third brother. Yeah, I don't want to debate you. 1120 01:45:04.000 --> 01:45:06.560 I just wanted to add to the conversation. I appreciate you hosting this 1121 01:45:08.079 --> 01:45:12.680 so as someone who's coming from a libertarian ish perspective. Now I'm pretty much 1122 01:45:12.680 --> 01:45:16.920 in the post libertarian world, but I haven't entered that libertarian to Orthobro pipeline 1123 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:21.560 yet. With all due respect to my Orthodox brothers, I am Catholic, 1124 01:45:23.079 --> 01:45:27.720 but I wanted to say, there is a tremendous different you know, there's 1125 01:45:27.760 --> 01:45:32.000 a tremendous variety of different flavors of so called libertarians. Some of them are 1126 01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:36.239 completely cringe. You know this. That's why I went to the classical liberal 1127 01:45:38.000 --> 01:45:41.079 position. Okay, okay, fair enough. No, I appreciate that because 1128 01:45:41.199 --> 01:45:45.439 there are a lot of radical decentralists who, like myself, come from the 1129 01:45:45.439 --> 01:45:53.359 American tradition firmly within conservatism, embracing pretty much a non universalist perspective except for 1130 01:45:53.479 --> 01:45:57.880 certain natural rights, which are the most important for any society. You can't 1131 01:45:57.880 --> 01:46:01.039 go kill someone, you can't go steal their proper right. There are a 1132 01:46:01.079 --> 01:46:04.760 lot of right wing libertarians who wouldn't even call themselves libertarians, I think, 1133 01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:13.439 who are just in this radical secessionism. Radical let's call it federalism, hard 1134 01:46:13.560 --> 01:46:17.680 federalism, in the American tradition, and I think that's a really interesting space, 1135 01:46:17.840 --> 01:46:20.239 right. I was even just talking with my brother about this the other 1136 01:46:20.359 --> 01:46:26.359 day about like Tolkien having anarchist leanings. Now he's not a radical cultural Marxist, 1137 01:46:26.399 --> 01:46:30.520 obviously, he came much earlier than the Frankfort school and cultural Marxists. 1138 01:46:30.720 --> 01:46:34.760 But the point is, we want to devolve society down to smaller groups of 1139 01:46:35.159 --> 01:46:43.159 people with common cultural backgrounds, religious backgrounds, and then you don't need the 1140 01:46:43.359 --> 01:46:46.920 state, you know, almost in the Russoviean sense, in the giant monolithic 1141 01:46:47.199 --> 01:46:50.640 Leviath in the sense. And I just wanted to have a conversation with you 1142 01:46:50.800 --> 01:46:54.119 or what are your thoughts on that. I mean, in terms of the 1143 01:46:54.640 --> 01:46:59.880 diversity within liberty thought, there are a lot of right wing libertarians and like 1144 01:47:00.079 --> 01:47:03.239 I say, more localists, like radical local Yeah, I would definitely agree 1145 01:47:03.359 --> 01:47:06.359 more so with those people. I mean, that's the the more that they're 1146 01:47:06.479 --> 01:47:12.000 moving in that direction as a libertarian, the more we would overlap, so 1147 01:47:12.039 --> 01:47:14.960 we would kind of be meeting more and more in the middle there. And 1148 01:47:15.279 --> 01:47:19.239 yeah, yeah, absolutely, But I would also challenge you with this idea 1149 01:47:19.239 --> 01:47:26.119 of natural rights. I see this as actually a very susceptible weak point in 1150 01:47:26.239 --> 01:47:29.920 the libertarian ethos in general. Going back to the Enlightenment, I don't know 1151 01:47:29.960 --> 01:47:31.399 what a natural right is or how you would give an account for it. 1152 01:47:33.079 --> 01:47:35.960 Yeah, I think I think I would be searching to explain it within the 1153 01:47:36.279 --> 01:47:42.399 solidly than Christian orthodoxy, well in terms of just respecting the person. Going 1154 01:47:42.479 --> 01:47:46.920 back to the Ten Commandments. Okay, so now, but art the ten 1155 01:47:46.960 --> 01:47:51.760 comm right? But art the Ten Commandments divine revelation? Correct? Yes, 1156 01:47:51.960 --> 01:47:56.439 I'm saying something rooted rooted in that, And of course we can tie it 1157 01:47:56.520 --> 01:48:00.560 all back to Moses divine revelation, of course. But and I know that 1158 01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:04.680 there's a lot on the right who object to natural rights, which I understand 1159 01:48:04.680 --> 01:48:09.880 they could be very revolutionary. Appealing to them, could overturn societies. I 1160 01:48:09.920 --> 01:48:14.319 mean, look at the disaster of the French Revolution and a lot of what 1161 01:48:14.399 --> 01:48:17.319 you're talking about too, the Enlightenment. And this is something that I've been 1162 01:48:17.399 --> 01:48:21.359 thinking through well, but I'm making a more more more specific critique of natural 1163 01:48:21.439 --> 01:48:27.159 theology. I mean, natural rights has bound up with natural theology, sure, 1164 01:48:27.520 --> 01:48:30.199 sure, But isn't this something that's kind of at the heart of the 1165 01:48:30.279 --> 01:48:33.760 American I don't want to say contradiction. I love this country and I love 1166 01:48:33.800 --> 01:48:39.159 our traditions, but it's almost again, expound on this, please, I'd 1167 01:48:39.159 --> 01:48:43.640 love to hear your thoughts. But we are formed in a revolutionary, almost 1168 01:48:43.800 --> 01:48:47.079 Enlightenment mindset. But yet that's what I said at the beginning of want to 1169 01:48:47.199 --> 01:48:53.800 conserve these rights at the beginning of the beginning of this stream was a very 1170 01:48:53.880 --> 01:48:59.439 point. Oh okay, my apologies to hear that. A great conversation though, 1171 01:48:59.520 --> 01:49:02.439 great discussion. I appreciate it. And just I would say, keep 1172 01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:06.720 in mind the radical diversity and in the fight's going on within the so called 1173 01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:12.560 libertarian and I get it, libertarianism, especially capital l man, so cringey 1174 01:49:12.680 --> 01:49:15.880 right now, they just they just nominated this chase all of our guy. 1175 01:49:15.319 --> 01:49:17.600 Yeah, that's why we're doing the stream, you know, got you? 1176 01:49:17.800 --> 01:49:21.720 Okay, So there's a lot of pure cringe in libertarianism. I get it. 1177 01:49:23.000 --> 01:49:28.239 And you're spot on when you say it's kind of like a cringe holdover 1178 01:49:28.319 --> 01:49:30.640 from the Enlightenments in terms of like, yeah, well, where do we 1179 01:49:30.680 --> 01:49:32.479 get our rights? Man? I mean, if you're going to be atheistic 1180 01:49:32.560 --> 01:49:36.560 about this, what's what good is a non aggression principle? Says who, 1181 01:49:36.920 --> 01:49:42.319 Yeah, I think exactly. Yeah, anyway, thanks very much, I 1182 01:49:42.399 --> 01:49:45.600 appreciate it. Yeah, pleasure to meet you. I didn't know there was 1183 01:49:45.840 --> 01:49:48.800 a third Gordon, so that's very cool. Great points, I think. 1184 01:49:48.880 --> 01:49:51.479 Yeah, if you go back to the beginning of this chat, you'll notice 1185 01:49:51.520 --> 01:49:56.800 that a lot of the points I made at the beginning are identical. So 1186 01:49:56.880 --> 01:50:00.119 we're on the We're on the same wavelength there, let's see. Now. 1187 01:50:00.479 --> 01:50:03.039 I want to remind you, guys, we got several more people who popped 1188 01:50:03.079 --> 01:50:06.880 into the chat. Welcome. We're discussing in debating not just libertarianism, but 1189 01:50:06.880 --> 01:50:12.079 anything to do with libertarian thought, classical liberalism, Enlightenment, philosophy, roum, 1190 01:50:12.159 --> 01:50:15.359 Catholicism, atheism, Protestantism, Islam. You're all welcome to call in. 1191 01:50:16.560 --> 01:50:18.159 I do want to remind you, though, that we do have a 1192 01:50:18.199 --> 01:50:27.760 show sponsor, and that show sponsor is one and only the Amazing, the 1193 01:50:27.880 --> 01:50:32.800 Based, the King of based chalk dot Com. I'm gonna put you on 1194 01:50:32.920 --> 01:50:39.880 something crazy real quick. 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Why are these people adding synthetic sweeteners 1209 01:51:48.479 --> 01:51:54.319 to every single pre workout when there are many studied downsides to consuming nasty fake 1210 01:51:54.399 --> 01:51:58.399 sucralose. Each dose of chad Mode contains the kick of a cup and a 1211 01:51:58.520 --> 01:52:02.640 half of coffee deliver bring a surge of energy alongside essential vitamins, minerals, 1212 01:52:02.920 --> 01:52:08.600 amino acids, and herbal extracts. Chad Mode will allow you to fire your 1213 01:52:08.680 --> 01:52:13.840 boss and dominate anyone who opposes you. Chad Mode will make you more dominant 1214 01:52:13.920 --> 01:52:17.720 in your daily life, so proceed with caution. It's as simple as mixing 1215 01:52:17.800 --> 01:52:23.159 one or two scoops of our fine powder into water or juice, providing you 1216 01:52:23.319 --> 01:52:28.199 with a delicious, energizing beverage featuring a burst of sweet organic fruit flavor. 1217 01:52:31.199 --> 01:52:33.920 We're back, We're back, We're back. We've got some more people have 1218 01:52:34.079 --> 01:52:43.000 popped in. Let's see who we're gonna go to you next. Ukraine seven 1219 01:52:43.159 --> 01:52:50.640 seven seven thought me, we get some vhrs, but no luck today. 1220 01:52:50.720 --> 01:52:55.920 What's up, Ukraine? Yeah, yeah, hello, yeah, this is 1221 01:52:56.319 --> 01:52:58.560 oh yeah, yeah, okay, you can hear me. It does work. 1222 01:52:58.920 --> 01:53:02.279 Yeah. I was wondering, how so I have a scientific background. 1223 01:53:02.359 --> 01:53:08.640 I have some interest in quantum mechanics and stuff. Does the fact that that 1224 01:53:08.920 --> 01:53:15.359 vacuum energy exists and that you get uh you know that that that that even 1225 01:53:15.439 --> 01:53:19.920 perfect vacuums generate sub atomic particles and things like that. I mean, doesn't 1226 01:53:20.159 --> 01:53:26.239 is that it is divine energy a possible source for that? And I would 1227 01:53:26.239 --> 01:53:29.920 also point out you were saying that data can't be sentient. Well, I 1228 01:53:30.079 --> 01:53:32.760 kind of disagree with that. If you look at like the Sequel data based 1229 01:53:32.880 --> 01:53:38.279 programming language or even just Linux bashed scripts, I mean you can have I 1230 01:53:38.319 --> 01:53:43.079 mean, even if we've never contacted in any non human intelligence at all. 1231 01:53:43.159 --> 01:53:46.640 I mean that you know, data can still exist in the universe. How 1232 01:53:46.640 --> 01:53:51.319 would that in any way untail that it possesses sentience or consciousness? So, 1233 01:53:51.520 --> 01:53:54.479 and I don't know what like all this stuff, I'm a vacuum. I 1234 01:53:54.479 --> 01:53:58.239 have no idea what you're talking about. Well, quanta, quantum mechanics, 1235 01:53:58.359 --> 01:54:01.399 quantum field theory, What does that have to do with today's topics though? 1236 01:54:02.359 --> 01:54:06.520 Well, atheism. I mean what I'm saying is is that if you know, 1237 01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:13.880 but that energy in a vacuum, it did the scientific instruments basically show 1238 01:54:13.960 --> 01:54:17.960 it coming from nothing. But I mean, I wouldn't something outside the universe 1239 01:54:18.079 --> 01:54:23.880 that mensions such as God be a possible source for that? Well, I 1240 01:54:23.920 --> 01:54:28.479 mean, if there are energies popping into existence out of nothing. I would 1241 01:54:28.479 --> 01:54:30.560 say, yeah, there would have to be some kind of transcendent source, 1242 01:54:30.680 --> 01:54:39.159 but we would say that those are created energies, not uncreated energies. Well, 1243 01:54:39.279 --> 01:54:42.439 I mean it's at some point if the universe is created by God from 1244 01:54:42.520 --> 01:54:46.119 divine energy, like divine ESSs to divine energy to created energy, at some 1245 01:54:46.279 --> 01:54:51.000 point it has to there has to be some crossover from one to the other. 1246 01:54:51.119 --> 01:54:54.319 I mean, if you have, like a battery, have a positive 1247 01:54:54.399 --> 01:54:58.920 side and a negative side, I mean it has to Yeah, I transfer 1248 01:54:59.239 --> 01:55:03.159 right. Yeah, I would say that God is present in the created order, 1249 01:55:03.279 --> 01:55:06.439 but that doesn't mean that he has to be equated to the created order. 1250 01:55:06.479 --> 01:55:09.960 So you can have a both and as opposed to an either or. 1251 01:55:10.119 --> 01:55:19.239 There's nothing inherently contradictory about that as a possibility. Yeah, but I mean 1252 01:55:19.279 --> 01:55:25.239 do you do also do you think it's worth looking in like like what Richard 1253 01:55:25.319 --> 01:55:29.279 Dawkins was saying, like looking in the human genetic code for some kind of 1254 01:55:30.399 --> 01:55:33.840 encrypted message in it, And how would that be decoded? If even if 1255 01:55:33.880 --> 01:55:36.880 you found it, how would you read it? You know, that's the 1256 01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:43.560 I always wondered about that. I don't find Richard Dawkins to be very convincing 1257 01:55:43.720 --> 01:55:46.720 at all due to pretty high level philosophical ignorance. I mean, he might 1258 01:55:46.800 --> 01:55:53.680 know about his niche field that he studied biology or whatever, but I don't 1259 01:55:53.680 --> 01:55:57.359 think he's very fluent at all when it comes to philosophical arguments. I mean, 1260 01:55:58.720 --> 01:56:00.880 I don't know about quantum physics, and I mean at a philosophical level, 1261 01:56:01.119 --> 01:56:05.399 like, how would you give an account for, you know, your 1262 01:56:05.479 --> 01:56:12.840 basic worldview if you don't believe in God's existence. Well I do. I'm 1263 01:56:13.079 --> 01:56:18.239 I'm actually converting to orthodoxy. I thought you're the idea that science, that 1264 01:56:18.399 --> 01:56:25.239 science disproves God, not all of it. I mean, the quantum mechanics 1265 01:56:25.279 --> 01:56:29.640 stuff is strange, it's almost I mean it's it's a lot more like you 1266 01:56:29.720 --> 01:56:33.199 know, witchcraft or magic than religion. But I mean, you know, 1267 01:56:33.439 --> 01:56:38.640 if you have stuff popping out of a vacuum, maybe we've seen maybe they 1268 01:56:38.800 --> 01:56:41.600 kind of found where the rubber hits the road, you know, yeah, 1269 01:56:42.079 --> 01:56:45.199 yeah, Well anxiety and the thing is with God. I mean, you 1270 01:56:45.319 --> 01:56:49.199 have an access to an infinite number of spatial and temporal dimensions anyway, so 1271 01:56:50.319 --> 01:56:54.920 things like the age of the universe, is the Earth six thousand years old. 1272 01:56:55.000 --> 01:57:00.199 Don't mean anything. For one thing, where's the clock located? Yeah? 1273 01:57:00.239 --> 01:57:02.760 I think that's actually that's actually a good question. Yeah, yeah, 1274 01:57:02.840 --> 01:57:08.640 good good good, uh good challenges good questions there, Bobby C. What's 1275 01:57:08.720 --> 01:57:19.479 up? Man? Gonna unmute Bobby C. Sorry about that? Can hear 1276 01:57:19.520 --> 01:57:29.239 me? Yeah? Perfect. I wanted to try to present an argument against 1277 01:57:29.399 --> 01:57:35.079 the Orthodox understanding of the Eucharist, being that it's the literal trans figuration of 1278 01:57:35.159 --> 01:57:43.119 trans modification. I'm not sure the exact term. Essentially there is that. 1279 01:57:43.159 --> 01:57:45.600 Okay, if I go down this and what and what is your position? 1280 01:57:46.439 --> 01:57:51.800 So at this point I am an Orthodox inquirer, and I was trying to 1281 01:57:53.319 --> 01:57:58.560 better understand the position. But this thought that I'm this argument that I'm trying 1282 01:57:58.600 --> 01:58:01.640 to go through was it was a stumbling block and be trying to figure my 1283 01:58:01.720 --> 01:58:04.720 way through it. So I wanted to try to present an argument against it 1284 01:58:05.359 --> 01:58:10.119 if that makes sense, to see how you would kind of respond if that 1285 01:58:10.199 --> 01:58:16.560 makes sense? Okay, So essentially my understanding, or at least the argument, 1286 01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:23.279 would be that the Eucharist, or at least the Orthodox teaching of it, 1287 01:58:23.640 --> 01:58:29.039 would violate the law of identity because it's if I can just kind of 1288 01:58:29.239 --> 01:58:35.199 summarize it or simplify it. The bread being transformed into the flesh of Christ 1289 01:58:35.880 --> 01:58:45.159 would essentially mean without actually taking on the properties of flesh, would mean that 1290 01:58:45.319 --> 01:58:50.439 it's not actually flesh, but it's still the bread. Does that kind of 1291 01:58:50.479 --> 01:58:56.960 make sense, right? So we don't believe that God is bound by Aristotilian 1292 01:58:57.039 --> 01:59:00.199 logic, right. So, just like you can't use the Aristilian law of 1293 01:59:00.239 --> 01:59:05.840 identity or other arguments about substance and accidents to refute the triad, you can't 1294 01:59:06.159 --> 01:59:11.159 refute Christology, for example, by saying that the human nature of Christ is 1295 01:59:11.199 --> 01:59:14.880 deified. So in the incarnation, the divine person of the Sun assumes human 1296 01:59:15.000 --> 01:59:18.600 nature and deifies that human nature without it losing its natural properties. It's still 1297 01:59:18.720 --> 01:59:23.800 and will always remain created. The same principle is applied by Ephesus and Saint 1298 01:59:23.880 --> 01:59:27.840 Cyril to the Eucharist, that the Eucharist is transformed into the body, blood, 1299 01:59:27.840 --> 01:59:30.119 soul, and uncreated energy of the God Man as well. So if 1300 01:59:30.159 --> 01:59:33.920 you're going to undo the Eucharist and the real presence, you're also going to 1301 01:59:34.039 --> 01:59:48.119 undo by extension of the incarnation and the deification of Christ human nature. Bobby 1302 01:59:48.119 --> 01:59:59.880 are either Bobby c I think we lost just so you might want to come. 1303 02:00:00.720 --> 02:00:08.880 We can't hear you, James. What's up? Yo? Hey? 1304 02:00:10.119 --> 02:00:15.960 Hey Jay? What's up? Hey? There just hasn't been a whole lot 1305 02:00:15.039 --> 02:00:19.640 of Protestant discussion. I'm not going like getting angry or anything. I just 1306 02:00:19.720 --> 02:00:25.279 had a question about to me. It's kind of like a Protestant argument like 1307 02:00:25.479 --> 02:00:29.439 verse. I guess, I don't know if you've replied to this before a 1308 02:00:29.560 --> 02:00:32.159 Protestant verse. How are their Protestant verses? Well, I'm you know, 1309 02:00:32.279 --> 02:00:40.319 I'm not. I'm it's I might have misspoke, that's go ahead. Yeah, 1310 02:00:40.479 --> 02:00:50.560 it's just it's in Mark chapter nine. So John tells Jesus that he 1311 02:00:50.680 --> 02:00:55.000 saw someone casting out demons in his name. I'm not trying to be mean. 1312 02:00:55.079 --> 02:00:59.840 We've addressed that probably twenty times. So oh yeah. So it also 1313 02:01:00.039 --> 02:01:03.239 says that he will be amongst us, So it's not saying that, Oh, 1314 02:01:03.319 --> 02:01:08.479 it's a free for all. Do whatever you want. Orthodox man, 1315 02:01:15.640 --> 02:01:31.000 I'm mute, Yes, sir, are you there? You wait all this 1316 02:01:31.159 --> 02:01:40.359 time and then you don't have your permissions turned on? Can you? Yeah? 1317 02:01:40.359 --> 02:01:44.199 What's up? Man? Go ahead? Hey, Jay, I got 1318 02:01:44.279 --> 02:01:47.279 a quick question. Is it okay if it's about it's kind of about libertarianism. 1319 02:01:49.920 --> 02:01:53.640 Yeah, that's a topic. Sure, I'm just happy that people are 1320 02:01:53.680 --> 02:01:58.560 asking topical questions. Go ahead, I just have a question. So, 1321 02:02:00.840 --> 02:02:05.279 how do you support libertarian or don't support libertarian? Isn't at the same time 1322 02:02:05.399 --> 02:02:09.880 support bitcoin? I mean, I see those two is kind of the same 1323 02:02:11.640 --> 02:02:16.000 same thing, if that makes sense? Well, how would the monetary form 1324 02:02:16.279 --> 02:02:26.720 and policy necessitate classical liberalism? I'm sorry, can you repeat that again? 1325 02:02:26.920 --> 02:02:30.560 I'm on my I'm my phones real crappy. Sorry, how would the monetary 1326 02:02:30.760 --> 02:02:39.119 form necessitate classical liberalism? Because, for example, gold, a lot of 1327 02:02:39.119 --> 02:02:44.079 people would say, oh, gold is you know, a libertarian currency of 1328 02:02:44.199 --> 02:02:49.359 choice, probably equal to or up there with bitcoin. Still does that make 1329 02:02:49.479 --> 02:02:58.000 all of the kings using gold in the Middle Ages therefore libertarian? I didn't 1330 02:02:58.000 --> 02:03:01.840 think about that. Okay, the form of the money doesn't necessitate classical liberalism. 1331 02:03:04.000 --> 02:03:13.279 Okay, all right, Yes, I'm just retarded to that. I 1332 02:03:13.319 --> 02:03:18.600 also just wanted to say, I do appreciate your content. I was Catholic 1333 02:03:18.680 --> 02:03:21.279 as of about I don't uh, well, actually, just a year ago 1334 02:03:21.319 --> 02:03:28.399 I was baptized Catholic, and shortly after becoming Catholic, I noticed a lot 1335 02:03:28.479 --> 02:03:34.680 of problems with the current pope, and it got me, got me looking 1336 02:03:34.720 --> 02:03:39.279 into Orthodoxy, and it got me into you. And I could say, 1337 02:03:39.279 --> 02:03:43.960 because of you, I'm just now and talking with my local priest about joining. 1338 02:03:45.039 --> 02:03:47.920 Okay, that's good news. Yeah, And if I could just can 1339 02:03:47.960 --> 02:03:51.680 I say one thing that I also learned about that helped me for people that 1340 02:03:51.840 --> 02:03:58.600 might be on the on the bridge of joining one or the other. So 1341 02:03:58.840 --> 02:04:04.920 I'm I've read. I've been reading through the Apostolic Canons, and I noticed 1342 02:04:04.960 --> 02:04:09.159 that the Catholic Church has broken several of them. Like one of them was 1343 02:04:09.239 --> 02:04:15.319 like a clergy can't hold political office. That's correct, clergy can't be involved 1344 02:04:15.359 --> 02:04:20.479 in the army or military. But the pope can have a standing army. 1345 02:04:24.760 --> 02:04:30.079 Wait, you said he Kenner can't according to oh okay, I was because 1346 02:04:30.079 --> 02:04:33.920 that kind of confused me. The Borgia popes have a standing army. So 1347 02:04:33.960 --> 02:04:38.600 I'm making a joke. Oh okay, And if I'm not mistaken, there 1348 02:04:38.720 --> 02:04:44.479 was a warrior pope too, wasn't there? And and then these have to 1349 02:04:44.560 --> 02:04:48.000 do it more recent times. But it also says bishops and clergy can You 1350 02:04:48.119 --> 02:04:51.800 can't enter into a Jewish synagogue and then there's another one after that says you 1351 02:04:51.840 --> 02:04:56.840 can't even light the candles. If I'm not mistaken, that's exactly what Pope 1352 02:04:56.880 --> 02:05:00.560 Princess has done. Well, Benedict too, and jump Ball. Oh I 1353 02:05:00.640 --> 02:05:03.800 didn't okay, I didn't even know that goes back. Yeah, that's repeated, 1354 02:05:03.880 --> 02:05:06.479 I think, and it's in the canons of either Trollo or the six. 1355 02:05:06.560 --> 02:05:10.640 Secondical Council repeats that canon, So that's correct. I think it's the 1356 02:05:10.720 --> 02:05:15.319 six Yeah. Yeah, but they don't care about candons, so I appreciate 1357 02:05:15.399 --> 02:05:17.720 that we're gonna move over, move on. Yeah, they don't. They 1358 02:05:17.760 --> 02:05:19.560 don't care. They just said, well, the Pope can do whatever he 1359 02:05:19.640 --> 02:05:24.479 wants, so he can, he can, he can trump all those things. 1360 02:05:24.840 --> 02:05:28.880 Bobby C. Did you want to let's go to Logan. He hasn't 1361 02:05:28.920 --> 02:05:42.159 talked yet. A Jay. You're hearing me, all right. I know 1362 02:05:42.239 --> 02:05:47.319 my audio quality probably isn't great. I hear all right. So I was 1363 02:05:47.880 --> 02:05:50.960 I was just wondering, like, how do on a low level, how 1364 02:05:51.000 --> 02:05:56.439 do I like, what would be a good way of going about talking to 1365 02:05:57.800 --> 02:06:08.800 like just basic low level Catholic practitioners about like orthodoxy and kind of not shoving 1366 02:06:08.880 --> 02:06:13.359 you in in their face, but kind of trying to invite them into the 1367 02:06:13.520 --> 02:06:16.920 parish and get them out of the insanity that is the Roman Catholic Church. 1368 02:06:18.119 --> 02:06:21.039 I mean, I don't know what to say other than just being friendly and 1369 02:06:21.239 --> 02:06:26.279 inviting them. I mean, if you're talking about inviting people, then you 1370 02:06:26.319 --> 02:06:30.399 probably meet people in your immediate sphere, so you're not talking about like discoursing 1371 02:06:30.439 --> 02:06:35.680 on the internet. But I don't know, like you could just keep sending 1372 02:06:35.760 --> 02:06:39.520 them, you know, clown mass clips and be like, hey, we 1373 02:06:39.560 --> 02:06:43.279 don't have clown masses, so why don't you come to our church? Pop 1374 02:06:43.399 --> 02:06:50.720 Bobby c Go ahead. By the way, I remind you guys, it 1375 02:06:50.760 --> 02:06:54.680 will be live June twenty second in Las Vegas. It's gonna be a lot 1376 02:06:54.720 --> 02:06:57.119 of fun. If you're in the Vegas area, be sure and come on 1377 02:06:57.199 --> 02:07:00.119 over here to them. Bright. Here's the link I'll put in the show 1378 02:07:00.159 --> 02:07:04.439 description. We'll be live with Isaac Bishop with my wife Jamie Henshaw and made 1379 02:07:04.479 --> 02:07:09.800 by Jim Bob. You can't beat this lineup. Jamie Kennedy did have to 1380 02:07:11.279 --> 02:07:13.680 cancel this event. We'll be doing more events with them in the future. 1381 02:07:14.560 --> 02:07:16.159 But here you go. Uh, there's the link. Be sure and get 1382 02:07:16.199 --> 02:07:21.880 tickets right now. Two are amazing Hollywood conspiracy and comedy event. It's going 1383 02:07:21.960 --> 02:07:26.000 to be a blast. We'll have books, we'll have lectures, we'll have 1384 02:07:26.640 --> 02:07:30.760 jokes and impressions. Get your tickets right there, go ahead. What's up, 1385 02:07:31.199 --> 02:07:34.159 mister C. Yeah, sorry about that. I don't know what happened 1386 02:07:34.159 --> 02:07:41.319 to argue your evil coop. You know what I'm talking about. Nobody gets 1387 02:07:41.359 --> 02:07:45.680 my references. They're all this to obscure, do you know, mister, 1388 02:07:45.039 --> 02:07:51.880 mister C. I say again, mister C. Mister I don't. I 1389 02:07:51.920 --> 02:07:57.640 don't know. Go ahead, that's fine. But yeah, so if I 1390 02:07:57.720 --> 02:08:03.720 understand you correctly, basically your saying I was applying Aristotelian logic beyond what it 1391 02:08:03.760 --> 02:08:07.760 should be applied to. Yeah, I was saying, you can't. You 1392 02:08:07.840 --> 02:08:11.640 can't say, for example, that everything that applies that goes on in the 1393 02:08:11.720 --> 02:08:16.560 theological domain, like the Trinity, or the incarnation or the sacraments, is 1394 02:08:16.640 --> 02:08:20.920 subjected to Aristotilian categories and logic. In fact, many of the heretics that 1395 02:08:20.960 --> 02:08:26.199 are condemned in the Ecumenical Councils, like John philipponas he subjected the Triad to 1396 02:08:26.800 --> 02:08:31.439 Aristotelian definitions of identity and substance. So that's what led him to say that 1397 02:08:31.600 --> 02:08:37.159 if a hypostasis is an instantiated substance, then there's three substances in the trinity, 1398 02:08:37.199 --> 02:08:43.520 and that's that's a tritheism. So likewise, you can't subject the miracles 1399 02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:46.439 and the presence and mode of God in the created order, and the deification 1400 02:08:46.520 --> 02:08:52.279 of the human nature of Christ to some Aristotilian category. Okay, I think 1401 02:08:52.359 --> 02:08:56.279 that makes sense because it would undo the deification of It's not just a question 1402 02:08:56.319 --> 02:09:01.199 of the Eucharist. The Eucharist is premised on our cristrology. The deification of 1403 02:09:01.239 --> 02:09:05.960 the human nature of Christ is the Eucharistic principle. And you can read that 1404 02:09:05.039 --> 02:09:11.600 in emphasis. That's that's Cyril's whole argument at ephis Okay, I appreciate it. 1405 02:09:11.680 --> 02:09:13.319 Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, thank you. I'm not 1406 02:09:13.359 --> 02:09:16.600 trying to be mean, but you are, mister C. So we all 1407 02:09:16.760 --> 02:09:24.079 are aware. We all got to beware of mister C. Tudor do you 1408 02:09:24.119 --> 02:09:37.560 want to try again, then we'll go to last Supper after that. I'm 1409 02:09:37.640 --> 02:09:46.520 mute, man, So now it's working. I popped in like a million 1410 02:09:46.600 --> 02:09:54.920 times, so so I don't want to take up too much time. But 1411 02:09:54.039 --> 02:09:58.720 because I want to thank you for all the stuff you do. I became 1412 02:09:58.840 --> 02:10:09.039 Orthodox this East with my fiance greeting from Germany. Yeah, the country is 1413 02:10:09.079 --> 02:10:16.640 going to ships but growing so well. Now, I'm I have a few 1414 02:10:16.760 --> 02:10:22.840 questions. Okay, I just stay on topic, but I don't want to 1415 02:10:22.920 --> 02:10:28.479 be too annoying. So if it's all right or not? So, yeah, 1416 02:10:28.800 --> 02:10:35.560 So as well as I understood, transcendental documentation goes like you eliminate the 1417 02:10:37.680 --> 02:10:41.520 contrary options because they are contradictions, right, that's part of it. But 1418 02:10:41.640 --> 02:10:48.159 you also present the positive position, not just a negative critique. Yeah right. 1419 02:10:48.680 --> 02:10:54.640 So, and also there's like I've gone through many many of your other 1420 02:10:54.800 --> 02:11:01.880 talks, so I didn't want to annoy with another question tag. So, 1421 02:11:03.119 --> 02:11:05.479 but I didn't hear I didn't find this stuff I was looking for, so 1422 02:11:05.600 --> 02:11:13.439 I thought I just told him. So we have, as I've understood it, 1423 02:11:13.520 --> 02:11:20.159 we have like reproving this transcendentals like math or language for example. And 1424 02:11:20.760 --> 02:11:24.199 on the other hand, we have the package deal orthodoxy with an essence, 1425 02:11:24.319 --> 02:11:33.199 energy distinction and so on. And I've viewed also the video from David Patrick 1426 02:11:33.239 --> 02:11:41.279 Harry where he explains the step by step tag augumentation and I couldn't get my 1427 02:11:41.680 --> 02:11:45.119 finger quite on it. So the way that we get to trinity is covered 1428 02:11:45.199 --> 02:11:50.239 in my talk about ed Fazer philosophy, universals, and divine conceptualism. So 1429 02:11:50.319 --> 02:11:54.239 that's where I go and argue trinity. So I'm not trying to be rude, 1430 02:11:54.279 --> 02:11:58.119 but I want to move on. Here. We got Roman Catholic your 1431 02:11:58.199 --> 02:12:03.640 last Supper. I'll put that in the chat for you guys. Here it's 1432 02:12:03.720 --> 02:12:07.159 this one, and then there's another one where I got into that, but 1433 02:12:07.199 --> 02:12:09.920 I forget which one it is. Go ahead, it was up J. 1434 02:12:11.079 --> 02:12:20.920 Dyer. Yes, sir, as your roboty last worthodoxe start? Can you 1435 02:12:20.920 --> 02:12:26.199 start over your robody? Yeah, I said, I got a lot of 1436 02:12:26.239 --> 02:12:28.520 respect for your work, Brob. I just have a quick question. Who 1437 02:12:28.640 --> 02:12:37.279 is the last Orthodox Bishop of Rome? Well, I guess we'd have to 1438 02:12:37.319 --> 02:12:43.359 say officially it was when the excommunication happened with you know, Photius or excuse 1439 02:12:43.359 --> 02:12:46.359 me, with whoever the ten to fifty four pope was. I don't remember. 1440 02:12:46.399 --> 02:12:50.960 On the top of my head, I think that was Leo. And 1441 02:12:50.039 --> 02:12:56.479 then you have Victor from what I have a list here just on chat. 1442 02:12:56.600 --> 02:13:00.680 But okay, so would that be technically the gates prevailing against the church. 1443 02:13:01.720 --> 02:13:05.159 Well, I don't think that we've we because we see the churches decentralized. 1444 02:13:05.199 --> 02:13:09.720 We don't negate the entire Western Church because of what one guy in Rome did. 1445 02:13:09.159 --> 02:13:13.880 But you guys dogmatize the errors that Lions and Florence. So between twelve 1446 02:13:13.000 --> 02:13:20.560 seventy four to Florence is when it's sort of dogmatized. Okay, gotcha. 1447 02:13:20.760 --> 02:13:28.039 So we're going with hope WEO. Well you said this, you said specifically 1448 02:13:28.159 --> 02:13:31.800 which bishop of Rome, and so it would be the one excommunicated. And 1449 02:13:31.960 --> 02:13:35.239 I'm saying, does that mean that everybody is damned? No, because you've 1450 02:13:35.279 --> 02:13:39.880 got a decentralized I think we all we believe the church was always decentralized, 1451 02:13:39.920 --> 02:13:43.079 even in the West. So the papist assumed that it was like this monolithic 1452 02:13:43.199 --> 02:13:48.039 entity. It wasn't. Not. Everybody even at this time had the phillioqua 1453 02:13:48.079 --> 02:13:54.680 in the creed. That's true. Yeah, I'm sure of new to like 1454 02:13:54.000 --> 02:13:58.600 the argumentation back and forth, but that's why you opinion on it. Yeah. 1455 02:13:58.600 --> 02:14:00.840 I appreciate that you're calling any time. I'm happy to address that, 1456 02:14:01.960 --> 02:14:11.960 uh shmoothly. Yeah, Okay, I'm probably gonna have to head out pretty 1457 02:14:13.000 --> 02:14:33.880 soon. You gotta, I'm mute put leo the ninth. Yeah, that 1458 02:14:33.960 --> 02:14:35.000 makes sense, you gotta, I'm mute, man, you want to talk 1459 02:14:35.119 --> 02:14:43.119 or not? Okay, I'm right. Well, people wait all this time 1460 02:14:43.159 --> 02:14:54.119 and then they don't talk. Oh g man, what's up? Hello, 1461 02:14:54.319 --> 02:15:00.439 Jake? Uh huh? What's up? So I have a few quick since 1462 02:15:00.680 --> 02:15:07.319 I was, first of all, I was an ittheist like two years ago, 1463 02:15:07.319 --> 02:15:13.439 and from watching you, I just start wondering about Orthodox but I have 1464 02:15:13.880 --> 02:15:18.840 a few questions. I am a complete new on this, so take that 1465 02:15:20.039 --> 02:15:26.399 in mind. Keep that in mind. But I I was wondering about the 1466 02:15:26.239 --> 02:15:31.880 I know I ard you a few times talking about that, and I can 1467 02:15:33.520 --> 02:15:37.520 you can I get you a call back in next time about tag because it's 1468 02:15:37.520 --> 02:15:41.279 not really what I wanted to talk about today, But we do these often. 1469 02:15:41.439 --> 02:15:50.199 So let's go back to this guy smoothly. I'm you. Yeah, 1470 02:15:50.239 --> 02:16:09.119 I'm mute to talk, Johnny Utah, trying to get preference to people that 1471 02:16:09.199 --> 02:16:11.319 disagree. I'm not trying to be rude to that guy, but he can 1472 02:16:11.359 --> 02:16:20.479 call back in people that disagree. Go ahead, Johnny, can you hear 1473 02:16:20.560 --> 02:16:26.479 me? Yeah, there's just one question Catholics believe in polatry. Do you 1474 02:16:26.600 --> 02:16:31.799 believe in polgatry? No? The Orthodox do don't believe in purgatory, so 1475 02:16:31.879 --> 02:16:37.120 you have no equivalent to it. Uh, not what they mean. No, 1476 02:16:37.360 --> 02:16:41.079 So they mean paying for your temporal punishments that are accrued in your life 1477 02:16:41.319 --> 02:16:45.799 due to the temporal debts, and then you pay it off in purgatory because 1478 02:16:45.799 --> 02:16:52.000 it's stacked up in the being counter God's mind. We also don't believe that 1479 02:16:52.000 --> 02:16:56.760 there's a created fire. God's uncreated. There's no created fire. Uh. 1480 02:16:56.239 --> 02:17:07.920 Smoothly again, all right, Jah, is a question. It's about the 1481 02:17:07.000 --> 02:17:11.719 assumption of Mary. Do you guys take it in? A Reeve just said, 1482 02:17:13.719 --> 02:17:16.719 yeah, we think that Mary was assumed, but that's part of the 1483 02:17:16.799 --> 02:17:22.239 Orthodox tradition. But not we don't leave immaculate conception. All right, perfect 1484 02:17:22.360 --> 02:17:43.959 figure, Isaac Johnson, get on, man, h. So I've been 1485 02:17:43.000 --> 02:17:48.239 looking in the Orthodoxy lately. I was thinking I was going to become a 1486 02:17:48.319 --> 02:17:54.200 Catholic, but I started listening to you and some other people, and my 1487 02:17:54.799 --> 02:18:03.440 entire paradigm is kind of falling down. So logically I'm there the one the 1488 02:18:03.520 --> 02:18:07.559 one things that kind of a couple of things that kind of keep me from 1489 02:18:07.840 --> 02:18:11.399 getting there. It's more like it's holding on to me, not so much 1490 02:18:16.559 --> 02:18:22.920 visions from people like Catherine Emrick, Mary of Agrida, and the one apparition 1491 02:18:24.399 --> 02:18:30.520 specifically of why would you believe in these women's apparitions? I mean, what 1492 02:18:30.559 --> 02:18:39.399 does Paul saying Galatians want about apparitions? Honestly not sure you haven't read galations. 1493 02:18:41.879 --> 02:18:46.399 I have, but I could just say the Christianity as a whole level 1494 02:18:46.440 --> 02:18:50.600 only really been open to that for about a year. I was, okay, 1495 02:18:50.680 --> 02:18:52.280 well, that's fine. I'm not trying to I'm not calling you, 1496 02:18:52.440 --> 02:18:56.200 I'm not calling you out or putting on the spot. But you need to 1497 02:18:56.280 --> 02:18:58.319 be you need to be reading the Bible before you're reading a bunch of apparitions. 1498 02:18:58.399 --> 02:19:03.559 And so if you're Galatians one, Paul makes it very clear that the 1499 02:19:03.719 --> 02:19:07.799 premiscy that we give to what judges these things is first of all, divine 1500 02:19:07.840 --> 02:19:11.440 revelation and scripture in the tradition of the Church. So there's nothing that's going 1501 02:19:11.520 --> 02:19:16.799 to come as a new revelation in the year fifteen hundred, thirteen hundred, 1502 02:19:18.120 --> 02:19:24.159 seventeen hundred that in any way contradicts the revelation given to the Apostles or to 1503 02:19:24.239 --> 02:19:26.959 the first thousand years of Christianity. And so especially with Anne Catherine Emerick, 1504 02:19:28.000 --> 02:19:33.200 if I recall she sees visions of Muslims in Paradise, I mean, her 1505 02:19:33.280 --> 02:19:37.600 proposition is not even consistent. Yeah, it's not even consistent with traditional Roman 1506 02:19:37.639 --> 02:19:41.840 Catholic teaching. And that's why we don't judge the position on the basis of 1507 02:19:41.879 --> 02:19:45.399 these supposed mystics. And that's why Paul says right here, even if we 1508 02:19:45.479 --> 02:19:48.719 are an angel of Heaven, preach anything other than what has already been committed. 1509 02:19:48.200 --> 02:19:54.360 That is in the Old Testament and in the Patristic corpus, and excuse 1510 02:19:54.360 --> 02:19:58.520 me, in the Apostolic corpus, and in the Patristic teaching, the interpretation 1511 02:19:58.639 --> 02:20:01.920 of these texts, that's the Orthodox for you, we don't listen to it. 1512 02:20:01.959 --> 02:20:05.799 And so everybody gets his backwards. I'm not calling you out, but 1513 02:20:05.799 --> 02:20:09.440 I'm saying people get this backwards, and they judge the religion on the basis 1514 02:20:09.520 --> 02:20:13.559 of these mystics and visions and claims, and there's just no way to judge 1515 02:20:13.639 --> 02:20:20.680 or judicate between these things on that basis. And if you listened to this 1516 02:20:20.959 --> 02:20:26.920 last Sunday's homily, if you're in the Russian tradition, then you got to 1517 02:20:26.000 --> 02:20:31.840 hear the explication of the paralytic from the Russian tradition perspective. I'd never heard 1518 02:20:31.879 --> 02:20:35.120 this, but there are certain details in the texts that indicate that he actually 1519 02:20:35.239 --> 02:20:41.200 sold out Jesus because Jesus doesn't say to him, your faith has saved you. 1520 02:20:41.920 --> 02:20:48.000 He blames Jesus for taking up his bed and walking as a paralytic. 1521 02:20:48.719 --> 02:20:52.520 And the Russian tradition is that he's a guy who kind of sold out. 1522 02:20:52.120 --> 02:20:58.559 And the point of that is that just even a miracle doesn't prove or cause 1523 02:20:58.600 --> 02:21:03.319 a person to believe. You know, Jesus makes the same point to the 1524 02:21:03.399 --> 02:21:09.920 guy who wants to be who's in Abraham's the brothers in Abrahams Bosom, the 1525 02:21:09.000 --> 02:21:13.040 other guys in torments, and he says, let me go back and tell 1526 02:21:13.079 --> 02:21:16.399 my brothers. If I rise from the dead, he'll believe. And Jesus 1527 02:21:16.440 --> 02:21:18.079 says, well, no, even if you rise from the dead, people 1528 02:21:18.120 --> 02:21:24.520 still won't believe. So miracles are external things that don't necessarily cause the person 1529 02:21:24.600 --> 02:21:28.520 to believe. They might, but miracles accompany the faith. They can't be 1530 02:21:28.600 --> 02:21:33.040 the thing that determines the true or false faith, because every cult, every 1531 02:21:33.079 --> 02:21:37.079 sect, every group claims miracles, and as we saw with that guy calling 1532 02:21:37.120 --> 02:21:43.520 in about Fatima the other day, it's like Fatima, I mean the apparitions 1533 02:21:43.559 --> 02:21:48.879 in zy tune, does that prove the Coptic Church? You see how ridiculous 1534 02:21:48.920 --> 02:21:52.399 these Romancholics are. They're totally inconsistent. Chris three dollars day and orthodox. 1535 02:21:52.479 --> 02:21:56.719 I was wondering if it's logical to conclude the Protonism as a type of Islam. 1536 02:21:58.799 --> 02:22:01.000 I mean, they share a lot of common nowties and similarities, but 1537 02:22:03.200 --> 02:22:05.639 I wouldn't say that it's a type of Islam. I would say that Islam 1538 02:22:05.760 --> 02:22:13.120 is a proto Protestantism. It's just kind of like it's like a mix of 1539 02:22:13.200 --> 02:22:20.760 Job's witness in Calvinism. Basically, DC, we're working three dollars, Thank 1540 02:22:20.799 --> 02:22:22.559 you so much, Jason of fifteen dollars. Is it safe to say that 1541 02:22:22.639 --> 02:22:28.280 a protest cannot justify in their doctrines from scripture? Well, I mean it 1542 02:22:28.360 --> 02:22:31.879 depends on what the doctrine is, because Protestants do believe some things that are 1543 02:22:31.959 --> 02:22:35.280 true, so they believe in the deity of Christ, and most Protestants who 1544 02:22:35.319 --> 02:22:41.239 are studied can justify that from the scriptures, but more fundamental to that, 1545 02:22:41.600 --> 02:22:46.319 they can't justify why they have the right list of scriptures storm of the cap 1546 02:22:46.399 --> 02:22:50.200 five dollars. I know that Kabbala borrows from neoplatonism. Do you think that 1547 02:22:50.319 --> 02:22:56.079 the name is connected to the Kaba Stone of Islam. I don't necessarily think 1548 02:22:56.159 --> 02:23:03.959 so. I haven't looked into that, but I wouldn't think so. Do 1549 02:23:05.079 --> 02:23:09.639 you think that there is a connection to hexagram and souturn worship? Yeah? 1550 02:23:09.680 --> 02:23:13.399 I think the star of rim Fan is believed to be a hexagram, so 1551 02:23:13.559 --> 02:23:18.079 there could be some overlapping connection there. Also support the show by going to 1552 02:23:18.559 --> 02:23:22.040 Jasonnalysis in the shop you can get signed copies of my books.