What is Kraklakin Hardwin Knocks listeners, I am Damp Valley coming with you as
promised with some NBA Finals talk. I am joined by the fantabulous Mota Quil.
You can follow him on Twitter at Mota Quil Underscore NBA. That's at
m O dak Hil Underscore MBA. He's the founder of at jump Ballnet.
You know his videos One more Thing may can be found on Twitter, TikTok
ig YouTube The Whole Nine. He does podcast for the Athletic He is also
a writer for Bleach Report and a former video coordinator for the Clippers, Spurs
and the Australians men's basketball team. We have a wonderful discussion getting really deep
into the weeds of this NBA Finals matchup, What to expect from Game six,
will there be a Game seven? All that fun stuff. You will
enjoy it. As always though, if you're listening to this podcast, please
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the promos for it. That's enough out of me, Let's get into some
deep NBA Finals talk with Mo. Mo. Welcome back to the Hardwoo Knox
podcast and what has become an annual appearance where I promise to only pest through
you once a year. Low and behold, we reached that time of the
year. How are you doing? Who is this? Yeah? That's if
anyone wants to know how famous mos gotten. I texted him and he tried.
He tried to go with the who this but couldn't even he typoed it
correct correct. I couldn't do it for two more tweets, and then finally
I was just like, fine, I'll do the pud. I'm good dad,
It's been a long time. How about this. Do you remember when
we first were doing these together and we did the shout out to your favorite
player? How about my boy Jalen Brunson growing up? Yeah, that's like
soon to be possibly near max contract Allen Brunson. My god, how about
that? How about that shout out? It's too bad these shoutouts aren't one
hundred percent like portending something because I've been shouting out frank niel Akina for like
four years at this point. Look, Frankie Akeena made it to the conference
finals, son per trajectory, he had a good he had a good run.
How is everything going with you? Have you enjoyed these these NBA finals
despite I will say, and I got asked this on a show, if
we've been conditioned to appreciate games that aren't actually close or classics because like the
final score and sometimes the final minutes aren't super tightly contested. Maybe in like
previous rounds this playoffs, I'd make that case. But for me, this
series has been just like absolutely riveting, despite the absence of like that you
know, final thirty seconds or final minute, what's going to happen. It
just sucks because the Warriors always make their run in the third quarter instead of
the fourth quarter, right, Like, we need them to just change it
to the fourth quarter so that we can get those minutes and that excitement and
that stuff. No, I think these finals have been great in general,
and I kind of push back I understand it from people saying like, oh
man, like they're not as fun and things like that. We haven't gotten
like the final couple of minutes. Although I would say Game four was damn
near classic, there were definitely moments I was watching or and I do this
for both teams where I'm just kind of yelling like what are you doing?
You know, or I have a reaction of like oh my god. Like
there were moments in the fourth quarter where I was stunned with some of those
uh those things. But I think overall, this is this is what happens
when you have two solid defensive teams too. Right, it's hard. It's
hard for just and and this isn't a shot at anybody. It's hard for
just fans to fully understand what's going on on defense and it's and sometimes it's
hard for me where I'm like, it's not just effort, just just a
smidge smidge more than effort. The ultimate thing is these have been like a
fun finals. I don't know how well played it's been, but it's been
fun and we've had a lot of excitement within that and those things. We
just haven't had the final two minutes. It's really really tight scenario yet,
and I think it's even it's been a tough I don't know if we have
too much time except for the with the one day, but that was so
weird going from Gay three to Gate four. You have the one day in
between. Everything else is like a million days in between. But I don't
know if I've had too much time to think about it. But the more
I think about it, read about it, listen about it, dig into
it, I understand this series less and less because it feels like it's being
decided on the margins. You dig into some of like the vitals of the
series, and they're basically even on made threes. Golden State is shooting lights
out on contested three, Boston shooting will on uncontested threes. They're about even
in the paint battle. Boston's a plus fifteen at the free throw line right
now, and they've gotten more rebounds, they've won the second chance point battle.
Is it really when you look at this series and how they're down three,
three to two, is it really just like the turnovers here and looking
at the difference there, Is that the biggest thing or what's the next biggest
thing or the actual biggest thing that's gone into deciding this series to date?
There are a couple of things, but I think the starting point is to
turnovers because it's the single biggest thing, and it's one of those things where
the Celtics just throw the ball away, which, by the way, we
say about the Warriors all the time, you know, they're turnovers. In
Game five, though, that was was shocking. Board Yeah, was shocking.
Curry eight assists, one turnover. I was like, what happened?
You know? Everybody was like everybody got stuck on the over nine of Curry
from three and I'm like, guys, he had a pretty good game.
He just didn't make it three. What does that mean for his legacy?
Though? Oh yeah, no, it's all over, you know, I
listen. I felt like his legacy was cemented when he won the first ever
Western Conference UH Finals. MVP cemented, it's over. Everybody just stopped.
No one else has the magic Johnson Trophy. That no one else's him.
Magic Johnson doesn't have the Magic Johnson Trophy. Let's just put it that way.
That's how good Curry is. No, but it's gonna come down to
it. And the other thing too. That's what it managed about the turnovers
is it's how they're getting the turnovers. The Cells are averaging nine point eight
live ball turnovers per game. Later today or tomorrow, I'm gonna have a
one more thing literally about live ball turnovers. When they do that, the
Warriors are able to run get out in transition, and that means they get
to attack the Celtics without having to face one of the toughest defenses in the
half court. And I think that's really the series. And that's what it
means. It's not just are they turning the ball over, it's those turnovers
leads to opportunities for the Celtics. Excuse me, for the Warriors to run
out and get those you know, transition threes. Find Clay wide open on
the wing, UH lose Curry for a split second, Jordan Poole come running
off. Those are the keys there, and I think that's like the first
major like stress point you gotta watch for. Yeah, and look to that
point, Golden State in this series after live ball turnovers one point five three
points per possession. I believe that is that is high for anyone who who
cares. I did see Chris and Nars who did an interesting threat on this
the types of turnovers Boston was committing and how it's easy for us to say,
just do a better job of taking care of the ball, but that's
so many of the turnovers has also just been like these lost balls that come
from a shortcoming. When you look at their ball handlers, is this just
something then that might be ingrained into the personnel that they have that we can
expect them to overcome, not just this series, but even maybe looking at
the overall makeup of this roster. Well, I think it's the starting point
of like, look, Jalen Brown needs to become better dribbler. It's not
gonna happen between games five and six. You know, it's gonna be something
he's gonna have to work on in the off season. I mean, it's
definitely a flawed part of the flaw that they have. You know, it's
in the same way that the Warriors will turn the ball over going for some
sort of flashy pass, and that's gonna be the situation. But there's also
a matter of valuing and understanding of taking care of the ball, like go
to a probe dribble, which is dribble underneath the basket, instead of just
trying to force a pass us out, you know, and or picking up
your dribble at the wrong spot and things like that. It's it's as simple
as as as that I'm I'm with Christian in the sense of it's not a
it's not something that you're just gonna be able to fix, but you gotta
cut down on it. It's that simple, because sometimes it is just these
turnovers are as bad as just like you're just handing them the ball. I'd
rather you punt it out of bounds and then get to go set your defense
versus just being able to uh just here you go, let's see what you
get because now you're in it. Just it puts you in a bad position,
and it's the live ball turnovers. You know, that's a great stat
that you just kicked out there, uh Dan, that I wish I had
for my video, But like that's it. You know, like you're out
of position, you're scrambling at that point, and that's when the Warriors are
going to take advantage of you. So you know, we can say all
that stuff and it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. So is winning an
NBA championship. You gotta do the stuff. You gotta make sure you take
care of the ball. You just can't have eighteen turnovers in a game.
The other thing that I think, anecdotally for me has been maddening about the
Celtics is all postseason. It feels like, and this happened during the regular
season too, it feels like if they're close to a lead heavily, the
game's tied or whatever, they're like playing to kill clock. Oh god,
what is it about? Like is that by design? Is it something in
this series's Golden States defense is doing? And when you when you break it
down, I think it's like twenty three percent of their their shots have come
inside seven seconds of the shot clock for this series. That number jumps to
like thirty percent in the fourth quarter. I get fourth quarters are different.
What it could mean when things are contested. But we also haven't seen a
ton of crunch time here either, So it's not a matter of them being
in these high leverage moments, you know, super frequently or incessantly and trying
to slow things down. So what is it about their offense where it just
feels like they're not getting into anything or doing anything though there's like twelve seconds
left on the shot glob. Yeah, this is going to turn into promo
for one Mode thing. It's there. It's their offense in general. It's
it's not the Warriors. I don't And that's not to take anything away from
the Warriors. They did the same thing in Game seven against Miami and almost
lost that game because of that, right they go oh for five I think
in the in the final three minutes of that game and blew a thirteen point
lead. And it's it's they'd go to it so often and when their offense
turns into let's burn clock and then kind of find a get a one on
one shot with Tatum or Brown, you know, in those final seconds of
the shot clock, it just puts too much pressure on them, not saying
that they can't come through, saying they can't make those shots. It just
makes it easier for the defense to defend them. Their offense is at its
best when they drive and kick, when they get ball movement and cutting and
things like that. Jalen Brown getting an attack a second side is unbelievable,
and I think that's really where he's really solid at. You know, I
think there's there. I call it jackal and hide. That's their offense.
The jackal side is the ball, it's moving, it's a ball movement.
Everything looks good. But then you know, mister Hyde shows up and its
slow it down, let's get one on one shots, you know, And
then you have guys like Marcus Smart. He hits a spot up three,
which is great. Then he's thinking he's hot and now he's gonna take two
isolation step back threes with twelve seconds on the shot clock in a game,
and you're just throwing your hands up in the air, going like, well,
hell dude, that's that's a terrible shot for us. I don't care
that you were kind of open. It's it's that's not the shot we need.
And I think they have that habit and it's what scares me. And
to be honest, Dan, it's what made me change my Finals prediction before
I watched it, and I just said, like, man, if they're
not going to be able to play offense at the end of games like this,
like they're not winning the championship. And I had them Peg to win
the championship after they beat the Bucks. I had Golden State and seven came
close to picking Golden State in five. I'm glad I went with the ladder
even if possible. Oh, I would have yelled at you if you picked
Golden State in five. I have them in seven at the at the beginning
of this series, but a lot of it had to do with more Boston
just scaring me with their offense. Yeah, that was what I wrote in
I don't know if you did your prediction atleacher Report, like as part of
the panel, but I just wrote, like, Golden States offense has more
layers to it than Boston's at this point, and that's just what I trust
a little bit more. And and there are a couple of other points too,
right, like they actually have a little bit of scoring coming off the
bench, Like who do you trust more? And I don't feel comfortable with
either of them, but Peyton Frichard and Derek White or Jordan Poole, right,
like Jordan Jordan Pool is gonna get his shots up, especially at the
end of third quarters. God damn it, Boston, can you stop him
at the end of the very final seconds, I will say kudos to him
for putting it up. I am so just. I get really, if
we're talking about NBA pet peeves we have it's not even private data that only
teams have, and even if that was the only thing available, trust that
they're smart enough to look at it. There's public data where heaves and these
final like second shots are taken out of your field goal percentage. Throw the
shot up at the buzzer. Damn it. I'm not here for these players,
a lot of them entrenched stars, and Stephen Curry's not one of them.
That's also why I love Steph. Just throw the ball at the hoop.
Come on, I'm with you. In the playoffs in the regular season,
because contracts are often tied to like field goal percentages and things like that.
Hey guys, go get your money. Yeah, that's right, So
that's why argument. But you're right, but more importantly, in that final,
like I don't think we've made a big enough deal of this. That
shot Jordan Pool hit at the end of the third quarter in Game five changed
changed everything. If you think about it this way, Boston finally won a
third quarter in the series, and and and that three didn't change the who
won the third quarter, but it changed the whole momentum. And what happened
was the Al Horford goes in crashing for an offensive rebound, Grant Williams swipes
at the ball, doesn't get it, and then Boston just stops. Meanwhile,
Pool just runs along the sideline and I didn't even think Wiggins was gonna
get him the ball in time, and he gets the shot off with the
narrowest of margin. And now without instead of going into the fourth quarter up
to Boston's going into the fourth quarter down one, So you finally win a
third quarter and you blow it in the final three seconds, and that's that
changed everything, because then that carried over into the start of the fourth quarter,
where the Warriors won on a mini run right there to start it.
And I think, to me, that's gonna be a moment, you know,
if the Warriors end up winning this, especially if they win it in
Game six, to me, that's gonna be the moment where everything turned against
Boston not so fun. Fact, I was not watching that live because I
was busy climaxing on a replay of the Draymond Green bounds pass. When he
thread the needle. I think that was like the possession before and I couldn't
had to go back and rewatch that Jordan pulls ridiculous though the other element of
Boston's offense, or one of the other amounts I want to ask you about.
It's received enough attention, and I do think he's done a lot of
good things as a playmaker. And there's also been the scheduled tweets every other
game Jason Tatum has made the leap. That's just consistent. Look, he's
only he's only nineteen, so so kudos to him. But he's shooting a
higher percentage on above the break threes fifty one point four percent. Then he's
shooting in the restricted area, he's fifty percent there, and he's on like
thirty one percent from two. In general, his mid range breakdown is ghastly
four of twenty form mid range eight of twenty eight in the pain outside of
the restricted area. What is is anything Golden State done gone into that?
Is it a lot of Tatum looks gas that points in the game. What
has gone into just that two point plunge for him? So it's a little
bit of everything. I think, you know, I don't know how much
of his shoulder is still bothering him. My dog scratching me again. Come
everybuddy, you might get the dog on the podcast. Come here, that's
the real guess that we asked for. But you were the one that showed
up so well. So he doesn't have thumbs, so he can't really do
all the work, all right, Come everybody here. We got my little
pup well named after well, not named after Luca Dodge, but his name
is Luca. The foster and Rescue named him Luca, and I was fostering
him originally, so I wasn't sure I was going to adopt him. And
the old you know, after telling everybody for a month his name was Luca,
I didn't feel like changing it. I actually I did know it wasn't
because it's spelled Luca correct, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But
the ultimate thing is, when we're talking about Jason tatum struggles here, you've
got to give credit first to Andrew Wiggins. He's done a great job.
Clay Thompson rotating over a lot on these drives has been really good. Another
layer of defense. I just think Golden State has done a great job defensively
on him, showing an extra body a lot of times when he has opportunities,
and then there's things with him he's not going quick enough. If he
gets to isolation on Steff, he's got to go right away because the Warriors
are gonna send help and he's not doing it. And I think that's kind
of been the the the difference there. And then this is the wild stat
and you know, shoulder injury aside, who knows if it's if it's just
really a stinger. It's the longest stinger in injury history. He hasn't had
a dunk dance since Game six of the Eastern Conference Finals. I did not
even process that, Like I remember just thinking to myself the other day going
like, huh, like, what was the last time I saw Jason Tatum
dunk? And I just assumed he had one or two dunks? And in
the finals, you know, random whatever, even just an easy wide open
lay up or something, and I had to go all the way back and
the last time was it was like the second quarter I think in the game
six and I'm like, damn, you know, and I think that's that's
something, you know, maybe it's a shoulder, maybe it's fatigue, being
tired and things like that. But that says a lot because being aggressive at
the rim makes a big difference. And I think those are things that are
really going to matter for him. And he's got to get I mean,
Celtics aren't winning anything he doesn't get back on track. Moving on to the
Warriors, what have you made of and this is more than just this series
Andrew checkbook. When Wiggins's transformation and I'm asking you, this is your one
of the best people ask about this because you were a video coordinator. I
do think a lot of it has just been his role is optimized, like
it's more streamline, not as complicated. On offense, they're asking him to
do a lot of you know, I feel like his defensive responsibility isn't what
it probably should be like when you look at his assignments, Yes, but
maybe overall isn't like when you're looking at off the ball or some of the
moves they're asking him to make on rotations isn't what you'd expect from a peak
Golden State wing at points. But I'm also just wondering is there any element
of just stability here. He's had the same coach in Golden State. I
guess the supporting cast has changed, but just that continuity. How valuable is
that when especially when you're just comparing it to his time in Minnesota and the
amount of unrest that was everywhere in that organization. Yeah, I mean there's
a lot of factors when you kind of compare it to his time in Minnesota,
stability being a major one in terms of just the same coach and same
front office, you know, and everybody kind of has stayed relatively the same
for the most part. And Core, I mean, it's been the same
core for the Warriors for the most part. Granted a lot of those guys
were injured, but they were around. I think the roles a big difference,
Right, You're going from being the second option of a team in Minnesota
and probably getting the other team's best perimeter defender on you, versus going to
Golden State and now you're i mean, all right, even let's just say
Clay's on himself, so you're like the third option, Like you're like the
second or third option you're getting the second or third best perimeter to defender on
you, You're not getting the best perimeter defender on you. I think it
kind of opens up stuff. And then he's gotten better himself, Like he's
learned to play in the system. He's doing an unbelievable job rebounding, right,
It's like, what twenty nine rebounds over two games now, Like he's
like he's just juiced it up. And that he's averaging like eight point eight
per thirty six minutes after averaging like three point seven per thirty six in the
regular season or whatever it is. That's wild. Yeah. And then and
then his defense on Tatum, like we just talked about, has been really
impressive enough to bother Tatum and put him into difficult spots. And I think,
you know, when you you kind of just look at the transformation,
it's it's more just yeah, like it's it's also just starting to click.
He's in a different role, that's more he's more suited for. And sometimes
that's the case. I think that's why I get nervous around the draft time,
you know, calling a guy a bust or something like that. I'm
like, oh, well, like, what was the situation he was in
And I'll take a cheap shot here. If you're the Sacramento Kings, like
you get drafted by the Kings for the most part, how many guys have
they truly developed? Like Daron Fox is probably their their their best development guy
right now, and he's kind of plateaued a little bit last season. He
looked better with Sabonus when when after the trade, We'll see how that kind
of plays out next season. But everybody else they draft, it's almost like,
okay, they never pan out. And part of that certain point you
have to look at the organization and say, like, what are you guys
doing well? New coach every two years, which means a whole new staff,
a whole new player development staff, regime regime, regime, regime,
regime change. Sorry, it took me a minute. Took me, It
took me a minute. Several regime changes, you know, over the over
the course of the past few years, like changes the direction of the stuff.
You're drafting a kid and you're not putting him in a place to succeed.
And I think those you know, it's it's it's that challenge with those
guys, you know, And I think Donovan Mitchell isn't Donovan Mitchell. If
you got drafted somewhere else, you know, it's the right opportunity sort paid
off. And now Wiggins is now in the right situation for him, and
I think him being kind of a supporting cast member or like a third option
is really what he suited for at best, instead of what he was in
Minnesota. And and you know it's not I mean just the way the scenario
played out. And now he's grown as a player, like it's fun to
watch. Is he gonna win the finals MVP? He should win the Finals
MVP. That's that's the direction to go. Steph didn't make it three in
game five. I don't know how you vote him Finals MVP at all at
this point. And look, you mentioned the stuff the Warriors have done as
a team to make life difficult on Jason Tatum possessions in which Wiggins has Garden
guarded Tatum. The Celtics is a team, so I'm not going off just
the shot tracking data. The Celtics is a team point eight points per possession
in those situations. Just that that's good for the Warriors, really bad for
the Celtics. So it's been and look, his season's been a trip.
By the way, Wiggins ghost from ohay is he gonna play because he don't
get vaccinated? To All Star starter too? I forgot all about that.
Now he's what, he's been the Warrior's second best player in this Like we
don't need to get into ranking who's been the most viable for the Warriors,
but like we're at a point where he's been the second best or second most
reliable player for the Warriors in the in the freaking finals, Like that is
quite the progression of events over the past ye months or whatever it's been.
I mean, it's it's it's unbelievable kind of just how he's grown into all
of that stuff. Like it's it's been a roller coaster of a year for
him. And you know, good for him to just kind of hold on
in that, and then good for just the organization stuck with him, believed
with him, and and and I think they've kind of found found something in
it. We'll see what happens contract extension time, but you know it'll be
an interesting scenario. But right now they're a game away from winning the finals,
and large parts Steph Curry, but some of that's also Andrew Wiggins,
You can't deny that. This is the question I've been dying to ask you.
How many stars did you give Draymond Green's podcasts. I give all all
podcasts that I rate five stars. You know, for this one, I
saw your one star review that said if I could give it a half star
review, I would, No, I said, if I wanted to give
it negative stars. Oh, I mean this one it was more just,
you know, because I just said, I want to level out the I
want to bring down the competition. Maybe that's what I need to start doing,
is just start rating everybody's a one star, everybody that competes against me,
whether they're good or not. You would Lakers fans have done that to
this podcast more than a few times, so you shot might be something shocking.
Laker fans being petty, shocking. You know, they can't realize,
you know, that they've put themselves in a bad situation after winning the championship.
Their defense, I talked about Kyle Kuzla. I don't even remember what
I said, but that was the that was the that's what inside it it.
But actual Draymond Green the podcast stuff was always ridiculous. I also think
he's ridiculous with it by claiming he's new media, but he's also not media.
Please just shut up already about that. I'm all for being in the
media. If you want to call yourself new media, fine, but you
can't say I'm new media and then say I'm not media, Like, let's
have some consistency here. You literally can't say the word I'm new media and
but I'm not media like. You just can't. That doesn't make it doesn't
work right. You are correct. Has the criticism of him been when you're
looking at the actual play on the court, not what he's doing in his
hotel room completely sober, just recording podcast. But the criticism have found on
the court. Has it been overblown or more fair this series? No,
I think it's been fair. I think just is on the court stuff.
I think, you know, he hasn't been very good. Now. He
was a lot better in game five, you know, And I think you
know my assessment was after game two. I think he got caught up in
the noise of everything, of all the antics of game two, and that
kind of led to him being out of it a little bit in game three,
into a degree in game four. But like Game five, he kind
of looked like himself, and part of that actually is a self fault.
And this is what I mean by it. They changed their defensive coverage and
decided, all right, Steph dropped forty three on us, we have to
crowd him. Let's put two on him, Let's go to work, and
let's let's you know, really kind of make his life a little bit difficult.
Well, that opened up opportunities for Draymond. Pick and roll, they
found, you know, Curry finds Draymond for a layup. It opened up
the fake handoff, turned the corner dunk for Draymond. He only had eight
points, but they were significant eight points, and then he kind of got
everything rolling with those things. I think there was a this is the Draymond
we kind of come to expect a little bit. I think defensively, he's
still been pretty solid. There's great stuff of him kind of reading the reading
the offense and immediately diagnosing what needs to be, what needs to happen,
and instantaneously, you know, being the solution at the same time. And
I think that's one of those things when you're watching Draymond that makes him special.
I just think he kind of got lost for a couple of games.
I mean, hell, his own mom tweet did it. Now it was
a joke, but like his own mom tweeted it, who and can?
Why are you tweeting at Draymond's mom to ask what's wrong with Draymond in the
finals, because that's what she was presumably responding to. I just I believe
it. I like I would, I believe people are doing it. I
just my mind would never go that way where it's I'm gonna treat it,
tweet it Draymond's mom to see what's wrong with him? What are you trying
to accomplish there? Yeah, no, that's that's just Twitter. We know
how that goes. We tweet it, you know, whatever, somebody tweats
it. That stuff. But back to the real important stuff, which is
Draymond on the court. You know, I think the thing that's really important
is his passing and like he kind of really does open up the offense and
a lot of the off ball movements of things. And I think that's going
to be something. You know, they need him on the court, and
part of that is they need him to kind of be more like ten per
commer, right, Like I know he amps it up to like thirty five,
but like, yo, to just play at of thirty three, like
let's just go from there. And I think they can be they can be
just fine. But the criticism has been fair of him on the court,
Like I just thought there were there had been times where he was just straight
bad and he wasn't looking to attack. And it's not like I need Draymond
to score fifteen points, No, I just need Draymond to take the open
shots when it's there. The game four pass to Looney that ultimately led to
a bucket off the short roll, and everybody's like, that's why you can't
you know that's Draymond. I goa Yo. He didn't look at the rim
at all that possession, And the real the smart play would have been for
al Horford to just drop to Looney and then jump forward to Draymond on the
on the shot attempt because he didn't want to shoot that. And I think
that's the important thing to watch for in game six, is he going to
be more willing to shoot that and just show that threat of shooting it versus
h constantly looking to pass out of it. You had just mentioned something too
that I didn't think about until Caitlyn Cooper of any Cormo was pointed out to
me, and then Jared Dubin of various places tweets about it, where the
drop coverage Boston was playing against Steph was widely panned because of how great Steph
was playing. And look by the way Steph was still like having to create
all of his own looks when you just look at his self made, self
created bucket percentage of this world's higher than it was not just in the regular
season, but the previous three rounds. So it wasn't like life was easy
for him, but it was just, oh, why aren't you blitzing him
or throwing more bodies at him? Well, as they point out, you
point out it opens up the playmaking aspect of getting Draymond space in the short
role to decision make. Is there by getting away from that and changing the
way they defended Steph in Game five? Is there any other benefit aside from
the Draymond stuff to the Warriors there as well when you're looking at their supporting
cast. It opened everything up. I mean part of the opportunities that Wiggins
got where he was phenomenal in this game and it became a Wiggins game.
It was because they were putting two on Steff. You know, there was
a post split action where they jumped Steph at on the catch and Wiggans slips
the slips the screen and Curry hits him. Like it opened up driving lanes
for everybody. Everybody got free looks out of that stuff. And I think,
to me, that's not how I would have wanted to play. I
would have stuck with we're gonna just make sure everybody else doesn't score, because
Steph would over nine and you still lost. Like and granted he had a
good game, you can't lose that if you're the boss of Celtics and you
get Curry to go over nine from three, Like, let's just be honest,
when is that happening again? What are the odds you're gonna get him
to do or even go two for eight in game six? Like I think
slim, he's never won the finals MVP, so I'd say the chances are
pretty high. Conference finals MVPs all he needed, Dan, We've discussed this
already. Incredible. The other thing that's weird or it's not weird, but
and I phrase, that's he wrong and the outline I sent you, But
like the Celtics. I didn't bother reading it. I figured you wouldn't,
but I always like this in case people people want to Otherwise you get in
a situation like me where I went on a Calves podcast the other day and
they asked me what I thought about like Cleveland's rebrand, and it was just
like I wasn't prepared. I wasn't paying attention to rebrand stuff. I didn't
even know the Calves had a rebrand, so I had to look it up
on the spot. But anyway, the Robert Williams minutes without Al Horford have
been killer, and they're not always small like Graham Williams can be on the
floor in those situations. Is that just sort of how much time maybe Horford
is seen and like those numbers, are they swayed by Horford having spent so
much time in drop switching on Steph Curry or is there really something to what
r W three is doing? And would you they can't extend his minutes more
with his knee and he's played thirty plus the past two games, but are
you maybe looking at those specific lineup combinations a little bit more leading into Game
six and potentially Game seven of Rob Williams as you're five without Al Horford.
Yeah, I mean that was the other thing they made this. They played
more big in Game five? Are you gonna go? Sorry, I'm talking
to my dog. You're gonna go? There we go? He left.
He got tired of you, Dan. It was off the rails with the
with the staff. He's fed up with the Steph Legacy tals. He's like,
come on, guys, he's no way he's that great. I argue
with my dog all the time. My dog hates basketball. He just goes
to sleep the He's like Luca dogs in the off season. Yoh yeah.
He just looks at me going like you're gonna feed me? Yet The ultimate
thing is the weird thing in game five was a how often they played big
together? Because to me, they have the better small ball lineup. For
sure, they can beat the Warriors in small ball. Like that's the thing.
That's that's that's wild to me. And I think when you play Williams
and Horford out there together, he STEP's kind of like, great, this
is awesome. Two bigs to target, you know, and and and and
so on, and one of them's got a bad wheel, Like yeah,
let's go now, Granted there were opportunities. There were moments where like Williams
did a good job, they were up higher on the screens in Game five
and really again pressure in a little bit more, but it opens up more
opportunities. I was surprised how they played big that long. I'm with you,
I think they will play small again for most of Game six because that's
their best lineup and it's something that I don't think the Warriors can contend with
that. Well, like the Warriors, oddly enough, probably are better serves
playing big, more so than the Celtics. Yeah. I mean they've punted
on the pool party lineup or whatever it is, and even look the most
interesting. And it's not even a small lineup. But it's when they pulled
Draymond and they put Gary Payton in the second in and so Cavan Looney's in
the middle with Clay Wiggins, GP two and Staff is a lineup that I
think is intriguing for them. Are there any adjustments that have been made by
either side this series that you've particularly loved or particularly disliked Slash haven't agreed with.
Well, I'm still yelling and upset about drop coverage. I just think
you can't do that against stuff like and I get everybody saying like, no,
no, it's not as bad as no, it's bad, and more
importantly, like you need to at least show stuff you're up on the screen
before you start retreating, And a lot of times even when they're up,
they begin to retreat as soon as he comes off, and I just think,
to me, that's a little bit wild. I think one thing we
probably haven't even given Kurr enough credit for it because I was shocked when he
got put in the game. But Nemanya Belle Eliza has held up very well.
You gotta give Kurr credit for that. You know, they've gone at
him at a couple of times and he's ended up stripping them. And if
ever there's a sign of like yo, the Celtics can't dribble, Nemanya Belle
Eliza's picking dudes clean. I think those are some of the small rotation adjustments
from that. For me, the big thing kur has done is after Game
three where he basically bench Looney for the whole fourth quarter. He's played him
a lot more since then, and I think that's paid off. Like I
think there's just been a lot of small tweaks here and there that are gonna
bore everybody, But overall, there's just been a couple of stuff, and
at the end of the day, it's just draft coverage. Every time they're
in draft coverage about against Steph. Just understand I'm somewhere screaming at a TV
noted duly noted. You're the coach now of both teams. What's even if
we've already discussed it, what's one adjustment you're making for each heading into Game
six? And I'm rooting for a Game seven because I love chaos and high
stakes moments. Well, I predicted Warriors and seven, so I'm just doing
for my own agenda for for my prediction, right, I am fullyheartedly being
selfish. That is why I was a Phoenix Suns fan for most of this
season. I predicted them to win the title in the preseason and I felt
not terrible about it until that Game seven against that that was rough the for
the Celtics. It's what I said, play small, longer and and and
don't slow down on offense. Get get more ball movement, run more sets,
get more actions, get more involvement of everybody, get the defense moving.
When you've stuck playing a lot of one on one stuff is plays right
into the Warrior's hands. You don't want that, get the action move And
so for me, for the Celtics, play smaller and play faster. For
the Warriors, I would look at it more. I don't want to say
almost the exact I think for the Warriors, understand that their first they're gonna
come out fired up with their first punch to start this game. Just stay
the course there and you're you constantly just have continue to the offense you have
been doing, which is constantly moving and putting pressure on them, and run
every chance you get in transition, off of missus, off of turnovers,
even off of makes. If there's an opportunity to get up and get the
ball up the court quickly and attack quickly, you gotta do it every chance
you can, because that defense is still really stifling. Who is one non
star like, non prominent player from each team that that you're watching heading into
game six and again maybe game seven. I think for the Warriors it's besides
Looney, who I think you know is pretty obvious. I think it's Gary
Payton. The second he's come in defensively, Oh you got so happy there.
I love Gary Payton the second there you go, great story with everything
and and all that of him coming through, but he's come in and has
come up with some pretty big stops, strips and things like that. Has
hit some shot six to eight I think from the field in Game five,
you know, knocking down one three and just small cuts and things like that.
He's got to continue to be effective both on the offensive vent and defenseman
and they're not gonna guard him on offense, so he's got to make them
pay for that with timely cuts and hitting a couple of threes. For the
Celtics, it's two guys, and it's it's two guys as if we can
morph them into one, and it's Derek White and Peyton Pritchard and they were
the same player. He just like combined them into one player, maybe a
max player, uh not Max, maybe a little less, but ultimately really
good. I think you need those guys to come through because right now the
Celtics only have five guys, and I think that's the hard thing. Like
Grant Williams has not been very good the series, I don't think he's gonna
get any better. We've seen flashes from White and Pritchard and those guys need
to kind of stay consistent. White started out Game four really well, ten
points in the first half, sucked the second half, and you know,
those guys need to provide a punch, either defensively or offensively. But they
need to bring something for the Celtics to justify their minutes. And it's just
buy time for some of those guys to get a couple of minutes here and
there. Derek White especially just because the defensive pressure he provides is invaluable to
them. And I thought, for some reason, I after Game five,
I thought he played like twelve or thirteen minutes. It turns out he played
twenty plus. And like, I guess that was the extent to which you
just didn't feel him on the court during that time. Yeah no, And
that's the thing, right, Like those hurt Those no minutes at a random
time kind of kill you, Like you're you're there, but we don't feel
you. Those those really kill teams. This is the clickbait question of the
podcast. Is Steph Curry the Finals MVP at this moment? And is there
anyone whether it's the Warriors blowing this lead, whether it's someone on the Warriors
coming up and use to bring him. Is anyone close enough to where he
wouldn't win the finals? MVP at this juncture through five games, is Steph
Curry? Again, everybody's gonna harp on over nine, But you gotta understand
what he did in game four. He won into Boston and dropped forty three,
and it must win for the team, right they go down three one,
this thing's over. Yeah, done, No, it's this series is
done, like they're they're not coming back from that. And he came in
there and you can sense it from the first quarter when he hits the three.
Everybody's talked about it. When he hits the three and then runs to
the other end of the court to talk trash to the Celtics Bension fans before
going to join his team in the time out, that's not Steph Curry,
that's Draymond Greed. But that's something like he set the tone in that and
that was a monster moment right there, and and did everything in that game,
and some of his shots he hit were incredibly difficult. I think that's
to me, like a defining moment there. Now it Who knows what happens
in games six or seven, like, you know, we we joked about
it on one of the million freaking things I'm on the how's that for self
promotion? Yeah? Yeah, I'm on a lot of stuff. Enjoy.
Just just stick around long enough, you'll probably hear me talking. If say,
he has a terrible game and the Warriors close out Game six and Wiggins
has forty points, now you're in an interesting conversation in that scenario. I
don't think it's gonna happen. I think STEP's gonna end up being the finals
MVP, and I think, you know, just looking at it, through
five games, he's been the best and most consistent player, and I believe
a smart guy on Bleacher Report might have wrote an article about that. I
don't know if you know him, Dan, No, you said smart,
so I definitely don't. They don't know him. That would probably be it's
not me. That would have been the single nicest thing you've ever said to
me, if that's the case. The final thing I wanted to ask you
about this, and it's getting out in front a little bit, but how
much if you end up losing this series is either team, how much do
you react to the manner in which you lose? Where It's like if you
look at the Celtics, like if they lose this series, is it something
where they look at their roster and say, Okay, we really need like
more of a game manager ball handler. Or if it's the Warriors and they
blow this lead. And I'm not saying, oh, you need to trade
Jonathan Cominga, but how much do you then look at, Okay, well,
we might need some higher end veteran help if they're available, and actually
look on the trade market because you've come so close. The argument could be
you don't need to do anything wholesale, but if it's something that's sort of
reoccurring where it looks like the Warriors aren't athletic enough or the Celtics turnover ball
handling problems, and you, having worked for teams in the past, like
how much stock do you place into the like the unflattering results of a series
at this level we're talking about in the finals there like this is it.
You're one of the final two teams. It doesn't matter who wins. Both
teams are gonna need to make adjustments to the roster, right And I know
which is like there's no, I don't put stock and we won. We
shouldn't have to do anything else, right, Like it'd be different. Like
if the Celtics win the championship, you're not doing anything to the core.
You lose the championship, you're not doing anything to the core. Right,
Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, those are your guys. You're gonna roll with
them. Marcus Smart, you're probably gonna roll with him. You need to
upgrade the edges a little bit, especially your bench, because you basically have
turned into five guys. You know who said this. Jason Tatus played like
a thousand minutes in the playoffs already. That's like s absurdities. Yeah,
you know you need you need to kind of get You need to find a
little bit more depth on the bench, regardless how this series plays out.
For the Warriors, you need to find more athleticism. That's the one thing
I watch, you know, when they're the Celtics are the better team.
The Warriors just have the best player and Steph curt that might not be the
case next season. And that's not a shot at Curry. It's just a
matter of like, yo, he's getting old and and you need to find
more athleticism along the wing. It's surprising how small they are. You know,
it's it's Wiggins, and and and Claire are are are big. But
you know, obviously, Steph, you're playing Pool, You're playing Peyton like
they're small at the end of the day. And I think that's something you're
watching with that going like damn, all right, well you kind of need
to size up. And maybe that's cominga and Moses Moody making a leap and
you don't need to do much. Maybe it's James Wiseman, you know,
actually playing Yeah, I mean there's a whole that's a whole other podcast of
its own. James Wiseman ramp up. Was it the phrasing that will live
in infamy? Whatever it was, I mean, no, I'm not gonna
do it. Uh the That's that's growth, by the way, self restraint
right there, that's growth. I'm waiting for you to slip in some Timberwolves
slander before we close out. No, if I didn't do it when we
did the Wiggans conversation, I'm not even doing that now. I've I've grown
as a human being dead. But I think there's there's win or lose.
Both teams need to make those adjustments because here's the other thing. Western Conference
next year gonna be unbelievable. Blodget. Yeah, assuming the Clippers are healthy,
that's a you know, Kawai and PG coming back. Yeah, that's
kind of a difference maker. Jamal Murray coming back, that's kind of a
difference maker for Denver. Who knows what happens with Michael Porter Junior's back.
And then in the East, the East is wild. Who I mean,
I don't know what's gonna happen in Brooklyn or Philly, but I mean Janice
is still in the East, and he's probably you know, right up there.
And they always in the conversation for best player in the NBA, and
I think, you know, you're, you're. You've got a lot of
teams to watch for, so I think it's gonna be interesting. I think
both those teams can't rest on their laurels. Whether they win or lose this,
they both have to make adjustments. That is a great point, especially
about the Western Conferences, the Nuggets being fully, fully healthy and the Clippers
and Timberwillves fans got mad at me and claim I didn't watch Some Timber fans
clim I didn't watch anither games By saying, just assuming the Clippers are gonna
better next year the Nuggets. You got me into this. You fooled me
in before you go to the Nuggets. I'm just saying, a healthy Kawhi
Leonard and a healthy Paul George would destroy the crap out of this Minnesota Timberwolves
team. They would crush them. The argument was, which I don't know
how you relate this to me not watching games, but it was, is
that we can't just assume the Clippers and Nuggets are gonna be healthy. Which
is fine, one of them is. The odds are one of them is
gonna make it through the season pretty healthy. More importantly, I can't assume
Minnesota is going to be healthy. You can't assume health for anybody. It's
just this is the way the NBA goes, right, Like, just look
at it this way. Before twenty nineteen, Clay Thompson was the bastion of
good health for the most part, rarely missed games. Dude had to miss
like three thousand days. I don't know whatever it was, almost a thousand
days. Put it in that context, it's so long. It's nine hundred
days. Like his first major injury led to a second major injury. So
every team is an injury away. So like using that as the argument of
like, well, we can't predict health's like, we can't predict you guys
are going to be healthy either. You know, every teams a tweak away
from from something terrible. So like just looking at the rosters of the two
teams and you know, if just assuming both sides are healthy, which is
all we can really do. Yeah, the Clippers beat the crap out of
Minnesota. That was the only goal of this podcast, to get you to
say something negative about Minnesota. Is there anything else you got me? I
was growing as a human being the buzzer too, at the buzzer. Is
there anything else about this series though, that I didn't ask you about,
or that you think is being under discussed, that that we need to touch
upon quickly? God, we hit on everything. I think you know,
one thing maybe it's fun to talk about is the crowd. I thought,
I mean, the crowd in Boston is very impressive. But yes, Ruth,
listen, Yeah, Okay, the cursing and things like that. I
find it funny when players are upset about the cursing, considering how much they
curse on the court. I'm sorry Clay coming on the podium after Dreymonds as
he plays like shit in front of his son and talking about how Boston answered
cars they get in front of the children, Clay for the children, Thompson,
that was just like I loved that moment. I mean, no,
but Clay has never cursed, like come on dog, like no. It's
it's like I've heard so much worse, you know, on the court and
things like that, and I think there's an element of that. But give
I want to give credit and I want to give credit to the fans that
Chase. You know, they were really into Game five. I had questions
after Game one and two, but Game five, like you could really feel
them in their presence and that stuff, and I think it's it's been fun,
so, you know, for the most part, Like I think the
home court advantages has been a little bit real to a degree, hasn't necessarily
played out and wins because both teams won on the road. But I mean
Boston gets lit man, and I mean lit like I was in the city
for Game four and that at nine o'clock start, which is my first time
experiencing that. That's weird as hell on a Friday. Then Peoples was boozing
at like five, maybe even four. Like the bars around the arena had
like lines around, like or lapping the block almost it was like going to
Disneyland or something. They were boozing and and and and I'm impressed they were
able to roll into the stadium at nine, just ready to go. And
it's fun. And I think that's been a fun story to kind of continue
to push on. I would like to see more creative chants though, Like,
yes, Warriors fans, like maybe going five star podcast when Draymond Green
is at the Valine or something, or South is going one star podcast or
something. It doesn't have to be like fu Draymond. We can come up
with something a little bit more creative. They should read his ads when is
that the free throw line? They should yell out his ads at his free
throw line. I don't know who sponsors those pods or whatever, but like,
you know, whatever, stay Farm sucks, you know, just like
throw them off. MO. This was great as always. I so appreciate
your time, despite what I may actually say to you behind the scenes.
Are you able to tell our listeners where they can follow you? And all
the great work the millions of things that you are doing. Listen. You
can follow me on Instagram, on Twitter, even TikTok This old man is
on TikTok at mode Quill Underscore NBA, m O d A K. Hil
Underscore NBA and that's where you're fine. Like I tweet out all my stuff,
follow me on Twitter and you'll find everything from there. MO, this
was great. Thank you so much again, and as I'm sure you know,
I will be pasturing you again in the future, so please maybe save
my number this time. I'm gonna try to delete it this time.