1 00:00:05,719 --> 00:00:13,119 Welcome to the Seafood Matters Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Cowie. In 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:19,239 each episode, I speak with industry leaders, fishery scientists, fishermen and seafood 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,839 chefs. Will highlight the importance of seafood in our daily lives, economy and 4 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,559 environment. Whether you catch your own seafood, love cooking it, or want 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,920 to learn more about where your fish comes from, you'll find it all here 6 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:41,799 on the Seafood Matter's podcast. If you enjoy this episode, hit subscribe, 7 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,679 share it with a friend, or leave a five star review, and you 8 00:00:46,759 --> 00:00:56,600 can get in touch with me by visiting Seafood matterspodcast dot com. Gara Brodson 9 00:00:56,719 --> 00:01:03,039 is Executive Director of Fisheries Innovation and Sustainability, based in Pitlochry, a town 10 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:08,439 north of Perth in central Scotland. With an impressive track record of supporting fisheries 11 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:15,359 in Scotland. Since twenty fourteen, this organization has invested more than three million 12 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:23,200 pounds into innovations for achieving sustainability in the UK seafood industry. In this episode, 13 00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:27,840 Kara discusses how modern fishing technologies are being used to secure a more stable 14 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:34,560 future for both fishermen and the environment. And she also shares her goals to 15 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:41,439 a various sectors within the fishing industry achieve clear communications with each other to secure 16 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:57,200 the sustainable future she envisions. Welcome to Seafood Matters podcast to Kara Bridesin here 17 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:04,359 involved in fishing innovation and sustainability, which is a pretty important subject to the 18 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,400 to the fishing industry. Can you tell us about it please? With your 19 00:02:07,479 --> 00:02:17,360 role is that's right? Fisheries innovation and sustainability. We're a coalition of experts. 20 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,560 Some folk hate to be called an expert, but I would count on 21 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,719 people being experts. I would count them as such, and that includes active 22 00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:31,479 fishermen themselves. And our job is to come together to champion innovation to support 23 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:39,719 sustainable and prosperous fisheries. So look for those projects that can help businesses, 24 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:46,120 fishermen themselves, and the communities that support them. Yeah. I'm in my 25 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:51,280 seventies and I've been in the fishing industry. My father was a fisherman, 26 00:02:51,439 --> 00:02:55,599 So all my friends and come back to school that I would have to say 27 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:02,680 that fishermen are very open to change and learning new things always have been, 28 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:08,360 even with innovation stronger now than it possibly was before. But they were still 29 00:03:08,439 --> 00:03:15,400 very adaptable. That's absolutely the case. What sometimes trips people up with my 30 00:03:15,759 --> 00:03:21,879 with this small group of people is what is innovation. And I'm always very 31 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,199 quick to say that it's many things to many people. But sometimes people think 32 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,879 that it just has to be about new and shiny bits of kit. But 33 00:03:30,039 --> 00:03:34,159 also and it can be. It can be new bits of gee or new 34 00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:39,800 widgets, so to speak. But actually it's about new ways of working together, 35 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,919 new ways of talking to each other, new ways of sharing information is 36 00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:49,520 a really important thing, and new ways of doing things. There's that old 37 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,520 saying that in innovation that if you're doing things you always the way you've always 38 00:03:53,599 --> 00:03:58,599 done them, you're probably doing them wrong. And I don't actually agree with 39 00:03:58,639 --> 00:04:00,800 that because I think there are still you know, if you've done something and 40 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,000 it works for you, and it works for your business, then that's great. 41 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:11,759 But if you're needing some new ways of things to really help your business, 42 00:04:11,879 --> 00:04:16,519 whether it's to make yourself improve markets, improve sustainability, improve relationships with 43 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,639 your customers, then maybe there are things that we can do to help you 44 00:04:20,879 --> 00:04:27,160 improve that. And I think it's about new ways of telling your story as 45 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:30,160 well. I think is really important for us as a seafood industry because there 46 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:36,600 are so many misconceptions out there about businesses, individuals practices. So if we 47 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:43,879 can help by giving new information about our brilliant businesses, then that to me 48 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,800 is an innovation as well. It's not all about, you know, a 49 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,160 bit of kick to make a change. But something that I always want to 50 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:56,560 say to people as well is that when things are tough and people have a 51 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,160 job to do, the last thing some folk want to do is to to 52 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,839 raise their heads and think about new things. If stuff is if it's difficult 53 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:10,480 enough finding your markets and your customers and finding crew or finding workers, then 54 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,120 why on earth would you embrace change? And that, I think is what 55 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,759 Fizz is there to do. A group of people that are there to help 56 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:28,000 take the strain and to help maybe finding the practical and timely ways of improving 57 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,519 what's happening out there. Because some people do come to me and say, 58 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,240 oh what is that? Was that woman on about? Now? What fresh 59 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:40,240 hell is this? And I completely understand that, but I think the last 60 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,920 thing I'll say on this is innovations not a nice to have. It's not 61 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,720 a sort of okay, well, when everything's working well, we'll think about 62 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,319 it in the future. It's often at the difficult times that you really need 63 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:57,639 to find those innovative and new ways of doing things or working together, because 64 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,519 otherwise, if you want to wait for that perfect moment, it will probably 65 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,079 never come. So now is the time to help make those changes for good. 66 00:06:05,439 --> 00:06:12,759 You know my experience working very closely with fishermen, even going to school, 67 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,439 a lot of fishermen in my class and classes roomed. They maybe didn't 68 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:24,519 win, they maybe weren't first in French and Latin and subject like the subject 69 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:30,079 like that, but they are masters of their own profession. Absolutely so our 70 00:06:30,199 --> 00:06:36,680 board. The people who govern and pay for is are Sainsbury's Marks and Spencer's 71 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:45,560 Fishmonger's Company, Young Seafood and Seafish Industry Authority. But we have a stakeholder 72 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,680 committee that is made up of lots of people from lots of businesses along the 73 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:56,439 supply chain. And what we always say is nothing about us without us. 74 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,920 So when people at one end of the supply chain has an idea, you 75 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,839 have to ground truth it with the person at the other and say, okay, 76 00:07:03,879 --> 00:07:09,839 what does that mean for all of us? So absolutely making sure that 77 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:15,360 the people with that knowledge, the practical working knowledge are there right at the 78 00:07:15,399 --> 00:07:20,319 beginning of an idea. Otherwise there's absolutely no point in taking time spending money 79 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:26,360 if the person who has to actually implement the change or trial the thing goes, 80 00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:29,240 well, what on earth's the point of that? So yeah, everything 81 00:07:29,279 --> 00:07:31,839 we do has to be practical. The work that we do at FIZZ is 82 00:07:31,879 --> 00:07:35,199 never just going to be an interesting idea in a report. It has to 83 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:42,360 be practical and something you can implement on the water or on the key side 84 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,839 will actually make difference for folk. So yes, having that expertise directly from 85 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:50,319 whether it's a fisherman or a processor or somebody who knows about clients is really 86 00:07:50,399 --> 00:07:56,680 important. You know, there's a situation I was told about two people, 87 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,720 cousins of mine. One of them was a successful fishermen for many years. 88 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:07,480 He had his own boats. He's builked about three new boats, improving and 89 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:11,879 getting on. He's eighty six, he's eighty seven as we speak. His 90 00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:16,560 brother, he's younger brother, who's got a small boat at the kreels and 91 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:22,279 they do some jigging and handlines and they were out just about a month ago, 92 00:08:22,439 --> 00:08:28,279 and they were he was trying to get some haddocks and the brother system. 93 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:33,440 He says, you won't get haddigs here. So they steamed roughly five 94 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:39,080 mile. They put the lines down and immediately they started catching Hurdick. Now 95 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,679 he's retired, he's off the sea and retired. Boats sold for thirty years 96 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:50,639 now, and there's no There was no electronic equipment to guide them to the 97 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,080 spot. It was all done by landmarks where the moon was or the sun 98 00:08:56,799 --> 00:08:58,679 was at the time of the day. I mean, that's that's clever. 99 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,679 It's funny. Not that often, but I will fairly regularly somebody will get 100 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,559 in touch, probably not from the fishing industry directly, but they'll say, 101 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:15,799 we have this brilliant idea and they can't you know, it's to help somebody 102 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,679 do X or Y. And I always, because I'm not a fisherman, 103 00:09:18,919 --> 00:09:24,360 I'm not a scientist, you know, I'll always take any ideas, even 104 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,639 if after twenty years of me working with this even industry, even after twenty 105 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,879 years, I think, well, you know who am I to say? 106 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,639 So I will take it to somebody in the stakeholder committee, or I'll pick 107 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,759 up the phone and people are pretty used to me asking daft glassy questions after 108 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:41,559 this all this time, and I'll say, look, there's this idea of 109 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,879 what do you think? And I'm usually kind of sort of right when people 110 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,039 say, well, what's the point of that? We already do it by 111 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,480 this way or that way. So often people will come up with some very 112 00:09:52,519 --> 00:09:58,240 fancy idea and the way that it's being done just now will probably be all 113 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,759 right ideas well. Know, if it's a great idea, somebody will take 114 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:07,759 you up in it, so as often people sledge hammer to crack a nut 115 00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:13,200 sometimes when people just are doing a good job as it is. However, 116 00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:18,759 we have to learn to learn from other sectors. So there may be things 117 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:26,919 I don't know until fairly recently that how strong the UK is in satellite technology. 118 00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:31,120 Now are the things happening in satellite technology that could help the seafood industry. 119 00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:37,519 We need to keep our options and our minds open. Similarly, in 120 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,799 the biotech community. Now they don't know about fishing and we don't really know 121 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,480 so much about them. But look what they've managed to do in Iceland in 122 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:52,600 terms of using waste product for biotech products. And one of my jobs is 123 00:10:52,639 --> 00:10:56,399 to try and almost speed date these industries together and say you might not know 124 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,360 about us, but hey, do you know that we've got this buy product 125 00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:03,320 that might be useful to you? And similarly, oh, I didn't know 126 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:09,919 that Scotland was really up there in the race for satellite technology. How could 127 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,440 you as one of the newer industries, help us as one of the more 128 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,000 traditional industries. So trying to learn from each other, but not jumping on 129 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,120 every great idea that some Tom Dick and Harry come to us about. One 130 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:28,440 of the things I read party or website was simply getting better at old ideas 131 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:35,159 as well. I think that's how I like to hear that, because just 132 00:11:35,279 --> 00:11:39,159 made the say because it was in the past that they're bad. Absolutely not, 133 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,799 and if they're still going then there's definitely something in them. But I 134 00:11:43,879 --> 00:11:48,440 always say, if somebody is using is there a way to optimize it? 135 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:54,559 If somebody has found out a good idea but maybe doesn't know that there's help 136 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,480 out there or money out there to help them make the most of it, 137 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,039 and that's something that physis. Over a long period of time we've managed to 138 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:09,240 leverage funding for good ideas to help our industry. There is money out there 139 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,919 that often goes in my mind to the people who can't implement it as well 140 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:20,080 as we could ourselves. So making sure that if there is support there for 141 00:12:20,159 --> 00:12:24,000 good ideas, that it comes directly to the fishing industry, not for other 142 00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:28,279 people to decide what would be good for the seafood industry, but for the 143 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,360 seafood industry to do themselves, because there are a lot of people pushing for 144 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:41,120 change within the seafood industry in the UK, and sometimes that's legislative, so 145 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:48,360 sometimes it's political timelines or political ideas. Sometimes it's coming from consumers or customers 146 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,840 themselves, and you can't just stick your head in the sad, is my 147 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:58,240 view personally, I think, because if you do, changes will be pushed 148 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:03,360 upon us that don't work for us. So surely it's better that we think, 149 00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:07,200 okay, well, if we do have to think about humane handling on 150 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,159 nit zero vessels, what would be best for us, because in the example 151 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:18,200 of looking for to reducing your reliance on diesel, for example, if other 152 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:24,960 maritime industries are looking at ports and harbors and infrastructure and safety training, we 153 00:13:24,039 --> 00:13:28,639 might end up with what's best for them and not best for the fishing industry 154 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:35,960 themselves. And what we did was we asked a young Scottish skipper to go 155 00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:41,879 to Norway to look at what they were doing in terms of finding alternative fuels 156 00:13:41,879 --> 00:13:46,440 for fishing vessels, and he very strongly said that a wrong move now pushed 157 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:54,720 upon us by other maritime sectors might have really serious consequences for the viability of 158 00:13:54,759 --> 00:13:58,320 our fleets here. So rather than wait for other people to push things upon 159 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:05,639 us, I always think it's better for us to start thinking about opportunities that 160 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,240 will vet us. Now, it might be that people don't want to open 161 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,519 a particular Pandora's box, and that's when people, I know that we'll be 162 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,720 some folk go, oh, why earth is she talking about net zero vessels? 163 00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:20,360 Why earth are we thinking about looking at stunning machines, for example. 164 00:14:20,919 --> 00:14:26,759 But if we don't think of it for ourselves, then we might not like 165 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:31,919 what is pushed upon us further down the line. Yes, one hundred percent 166 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,960 with you there. And the other factor that built into that is fishermen. 167 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:45,200 They are one hundred percent committed themselves in every aspect of the word financially as 168 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,600 well. Now I've come across many, many for semen in my days who 169 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:56,000 have really got a massive commitment with the securities they have to put up to 170 00:14:56,679 --> 00:15:01,480 get their new boats and get them working, and and any new innovation or 171 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:07,480 any new gear or that, as far as the fisherman is concerned, it's 172 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,879 money. And I think that the thing that we on the board and our 173 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:15,279 stakeholder committee that we shout about, I think the loudest in the minute, 174 00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:20,039 is that there are many fishermen out there that are early adopters and innovators and 175 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:26,559 they are the real pioneers for ideas. But nobody should be expected to take 176 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:33,120 the risks on themselves. And so that for early adopters of new ideas should 177 00:15:33,159 --> 00:15:37,960 be able to access financial assistance, they should be able to get business advice 178 00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:41,960 for what they're doing. They need to get regulatory support. So we have 179 00:15:41,039 --> 00:15:50,039 an example of a skipper here in Scotland who has developed his vessel to work 180 00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:56,320 on electric and in hybrid solutions and even trying to get sign off for that 181 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:03,240 vessel from the authorities has been really difficult. Now, I always believe if 182 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,919 we're teaching the regulators about something that's new, then you shouldn't be having to 183 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,039 pay for that. You should be supported in helping us all as a community 184 00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:18,840 learn how we're going to deal with new ideas. So IZ, we're here 185 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:23,000 to say, okay, well, let's all of us bear the brunt for 186 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:30,159 those early adopters, because business is already tricky enough without expecting individual businesses or 187 00:16:30,159 --> 00:16:37,519 individual families to try and kind of forge ahead with good ideas that will eventually 188 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:40,919 help us all. So now we understand that, you know, some businesses 189 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,840 want to keep things kind of quiet, complete understanding everything we do a VIZ 190 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,279 is pre competitive, and we want the ideas to be open for everyone to 191 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,960 have the opportunity to take things forward. And because of that, then no 192 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,519 individual should bear the brunt of that. And that's why we think that there 193 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:03,519 needs to be financial assistance, business assistance, even some kind of benefits to 194 00:17:03,639 --> 00:17:08,680 those businesses that trial new things and help us learn the pitfalls as well as 195 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,160 hopefully see a positive way ahead with some of these ideas. Immediately, when 196 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:21,039 you said that the trouble your skipper had getting it through, you just wonder 197 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:26,160 if they thought it is who speaking to even understand it possibly comment when it's 198 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,319 new to all of us. It must be quite difficult for an individual within 199 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,119 another, within a regulator to go yep, okay, let's try it. 200 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:42,319 I find it very difficult to I feel it's getting increasingly difficult for the industry 201 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:47,480 to be given the benefit of the doubt to try new things. When you 202 00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:52,160 look at countries such as Iceland, I know it's a completely different setup and 203 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,720 it's very unfair often to compare one country to another, But there are countries 204 00:17:56,759 --> 00:18:03,880 where that culture of innovation is embeddied into management and regulation and the industry. 205 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,599 It would be fantastic if whenever there were good ideas for the seafood industry to 206 00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:15,160 take forward, that there was that sort of public license or political license for 207 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:22,079 us to go ahead and try good things. Sometimes the impression that people who 208 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,160 don't know about seafood and fishing, the impression they have of us, can 209 00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:32,200 stop people from giving us that benefit of the doubt because they might automatically fail. 210 00:18:32,559 --> 00:18:34,400 Or while they would say that wouldn't be they want more money, or 211 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,880 they want more fishing, or they want more of this or that. Actually, 212 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,880 what we want is to make the best out of our fishing opportunity and 213 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,000 make the best out of our businesses, having the best products, selling it 214 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,640 to the best markets. And often I don't think we're given that public license 215 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,279 to try new things. Yeah, a lot of it is trust, and 216 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:03,839 you can understand why, and don't trust everybody because quite often they're ended. 217 00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:07,799 They end up not what there was, not just as rosy as it was 218 00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:14,480 promised. Moving on, Kara have to say that I really fascinates me your 219 00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:19,960 organization, and I genuinely mean that takes me back myself, because it's why 220 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:26,720 I was so pleased to see the better at older ideas, because I think 221 00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:33,200 it's fantastic for your organization to have so many different bodies and boarding supermarkets, 222 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,480 fishermen, You're going ride through the chain, and I think it is so 223 00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:41,119 important and I think at credit to you all for doing that. I can 224 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:48,720 go back to the eighties and I was agency for quite a number of fishing 225 00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:56,559 boats, and I had a lot of connections with fish processors and obviously selling 226 00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:00,680 fish to them, and so we put it together and I don't really worry 227 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:08,039 too much about mentioning names, not individuals' names, but we took a thing 228 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:15,240 together which was so successful for over twenty years with fishing boats. We had 229 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:22,720 a guaranteed price reviewed every three months and that went to one of the major 230 00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:29,640 fish processors, and on board two was some of the major supermarkets, M 231 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,240 and S and Tesco's were two of them. So we had the fishermen myself 232 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:42,240 is the agent, processor and the supermarket, and that fishermen knew exactly as 233 00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:45,839 he was taking hat to say, for example, Haddick, as he was 234 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:52,559 taking haddock and ties on board his boat, he knew exactly how that haddock 235 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,079 would be presented to the public and the supermarket itself. And the fishermen enjoyed 236 00:20:57,079 --> 00:21:03,319 it because they had a stable I think the new as are almost as our 237 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,359 fish was getting caught, and the tally, the weights and grades that were 238 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,480 coming from the fish room, they could almost work out their tally. So 239 00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:18,880 they knew exactly how they were doing. And the supermarket and the processor knew 240 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,359 what their products were going to be, like I want their production. So 241 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,319 seeing what you're doing now, it takes me back to that. And you 242 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,039 know, I don't think that's impossible still, but I bet it was difficult. 243 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:37,880 Bet it was hard to do. And with our digitalization project, even 244 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,960 what we found is even with great people being around the table, it's quite 245 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:49,559 hard to make sure that that trust and understanding of what new ideas like digitalization, 246 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,240 what that means to go back a bit and this, so this was 247 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,440 I mean, to be honest, the idea of digitalization. I don't think 248 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:03,359 I really understood what what it was, what it meant, and why you 249 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,440 wanted it. So often it's how you start talking about a concept or an 250 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,559 idea because straight away some people you know, friends and colleagues and you know, 251 00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:18,359 the communities be working, think that data sharing is always going to work 252 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,640 against So it's about you know, it's a big brother idea. And I 253 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,960 talk a lot about data for good rather than evil, so it's not always 254 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,480 about it. It's the carrot as well as the stick when it comes to 255 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:33,039 data sharing, and so quite rightly people were like, well, well, 256 00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:37,160 actually we're all right the way that we talk to our supply chains. So 257 00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:42,160 we worked with Frank Fleming, are very fat, used to be a fisherman 258 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,480 and works a lot with the Irish fishing industry, and we try to understand 259 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:53,160 what would better data collection do for the people who are catching. As you 260 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,160 know, sometimes when you talk about a project, the captors might think, 261 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:03,759 well it'll benefit the processors or the process will only benefit the retailers. Trying 262 00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:07,720 to find a project that ticks everybody's boxes. Is as opposed the Holy Grail, 263 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:12,599 and we were able to say, look, if we use digital technology 264 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:18,640 to capture information once and share it to those people who need it, but 265 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:22,680 under you know, really clear sharing agreements, so it's not going to go 266 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,599 far wide, but just sharing the important data with people who need it. 267 00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:30,759 Look what it could do. It could add value to the catches. It 268 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:34,240 would give clarity to the supply chain in terms of how much something's worth. 269 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:41,319 It could mean that you have more confidence in a transpart supply chain. Consumers 270 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,920 might want to know more about you know, you can prove the ethical and 271 00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:52,119 the providence credentials of what you're selling so that there are benefits to everybody. 272 00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:56,359 It's not just about management governance. It's also about just as I say, 273 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:02,680 telling your story, making more money for your product, and making sure that 274 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,599 you can access those markets that really require more information along the supply chain. 275 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,400 And so just having a lot of time to talk about the benefits of data 276 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:18,960 sharing was really useful. Let alone, yes, let's use our data, 277 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:25,000 fisheries data to help answer some of those scientific or sustainability questions, because it 278 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,400 just it helps tell our story in a way that's much more positive than if 279 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:36,519 people assume that we're trying to hide things. So working with that projet it 280 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,279 wasn't easy because people already have busy jobs and trying to say, well, 281 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,400 if we can improve the way you share information. When we get it right, 282 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,920 it could save time and effort because you're letting people know what they need 283 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,240 to know at the right time. It sounds simple, it was still difficult. 284 00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:57,079 We're still working on it, so it's great to hear that you've had 285 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:03,119 positive responses in the past. Yeah, I think been realistic. A lot 286 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,640 of the problems, not one person or not one sector, is a basic 287 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:12,640 mistrust, and I would say, yes, I had possibly had in some 288 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,640 ways. I wouldn't like to say it was all me. It was not 289 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,519 me because there were fishermen. As I said, it went on for twenty 290 00:25:21,599 --> 00:25:26,839 years. But I think in fairness, the fishermen the same as everybody else 291 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,920 worldwide. There's certain people who will stick by their word and be stable and 292 00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:36,759 loyal, and there's some that dont. So I think we possibly had the 293 00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:41,920 right people. But the mistrust was in all sights because you would get some 294 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:47,400 processor saying oh, we were getting fish from somebody. But it all stopped 295 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,559 when when the market price started rising. You would hear things coming from a 296 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:57,880 supermarket which I have to say myself, greats with me when I see it. 297 00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:04,559 You'll see a advert for let's say, supporting British fishermen, and you 298 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:11,440 look at the packs of fish in their counters and it's Norwegian, icelandic Russia 299 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:17,119 and even and I just often think, well, what support for British fishermen 300 00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:21,440 is that. So there's there's a mistrust all along the way, but it 301 00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:26,000 shows that if you get the right people and the right product, yes it 302 00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:30,000 can work. And I am absolutely sure it still can. I think there's 303 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:37,799 that whole supply chain digitalization work to improve traceability and verification. It takes a 304 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:44,160 leap of faith, it takes everybody committing to something. I always say that 305 00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:48,039 for a lot of innovation takes time and it takes trust, and so you 306 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:52,599 have to work together for a while before we really get the good stuff. 307 00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:57,279 But that's why when we piloted these piloting in a project can mean that there's 308 00:26:57,319 --> 00:27:03,480 a safe space to try things. And I'm always very clear to say just 309 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:07,240 because you pilot something doesn't mean that will be an automatic. The next step 310 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:14,480 is full blown project roll out across the country. It's a way to iron 311 00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:18,079 out the problems, find out who you can really work with, make sure 312 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,319 every bree continues to be happy. But if if it's not showing, if 313 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:29,119 it's not helping somebody save time, save money, access markets, and then 314 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,000 that's when you have to ask yourself, well, what's the point. Maybe 315 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,920 the idea is too soon, or maybe it's just not the idea that we 316 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,720 thought it was. So you've always got to be able to tweak things and 317 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,599 consider next steps. Just because you start a good idea, things might change 318 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:52,680 fairly quickly, but fundamentally understanding, sharing information, telling the story, helping 319 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:57,960 people provide information. Once you know there's lots of different certification schemes, different 320 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:03,119 markets have to requirements. You have to tell a lot of people about your 321 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,359 product. So if you can do that once safely, efficiently, and that 322 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,720 information is shared along the supply chain to those who need to know, then 323 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,200 that might save you time, It improves confidence in your product, It might 324 00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:22,839 help you access a market as a particular requirement. But now we were always 325 00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:27,519 very clear to say it's not for everybody. If you sell product at market 326 00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:32,000 and that's it, and you can always shift around it. Then maybe you 327 00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:36,000 don't need it. But if you want to have pride in a product that 328 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:41,960 goes into a particular supply chain, then you might need to gather share information 329 00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:45,960 in a different way and that's what we'd be here to help you with. 330 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:49,960 Yes, someone with you there one hundred percent, Cara, because the point 331 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,200 you're actually making, although I'm maybe saying it in slightly different words, it 332 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,480 can be the best product in the world, which Scottish fish is in that 333 00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:03,519 cut degree as far as I'm concerned. But we still have to sell it. 334 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,480 You have to market it. It doesn't happen on its own. And 335 00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:15,279 if we can't give you obviously in physics UK organization, but for anybody, 336 00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:19,880 whether you're selling from from Cornwall or all from Scotland, if you're not meeting 337 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:26,240 market requirements then we're not charities. You have to provide the vision, the 338 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,880 quality and the quantity that is required of that market. Now, again, 339 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,519 if there's a mismatch, there is something that an organization that FIZZ can do 340 00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:41,400 to help. But it's understanding the needs I think the days of catching and 341 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,440 then just you know, selling it on the market, not knowing where that 342 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,119 goes. Those days are gone. What does your customer need? What does 343 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,400 your supply chain require you to do? Because you have to show your workings, 344 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:59,680 whether that's on requirements now, but where it's caught, whether it's requirements 345 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,400 in the future about other things such as the handling of the fish or your 346 00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:08,079 vessel emissions. Who knows what's going to be required in the future. And 347 00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:12,000 again that's part of our job of FIZZ is to try and work out what 348 00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:17,079 will be required of you in the future and making sure that we can help 349 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:23,480 businesses prepare for that, to make sure they're still safe, they're still competitive, 350 00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:29,359 and that they're meeting these market requirements. On your innovation side, can 351 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:37,160 you tell me something about Smartral Smartral now this is this is the brainchild of 352 00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:41,759 Professor Paul Fernandez, who used to be at Aberdeen University in at Henriott What 353 00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:48,799 University in the Lyle Center and their National Obitarium, and it is really exciting. 354 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,759 It's something that FIZ has supported right from the very beginning. It's a 355 00:30:53,799 --> 00:31:00,000 FIZZ project where what we hope to happen and we are a bit away from 356 00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:04,960 this, but we're getting nearer, is that the system will allow skippers to 357 00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:11,480 select the fish that they want to catch, keep that valuable catch, but 358 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,440 release unwanted fish, unharmed, back into the seat. And this is all 359 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:21,960 happening at the beginning of the net in the water, in water selectivity, 360 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,200 precision fishing, these are all these big words that are being used just now. 361 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:30,240 So it is it's a stereo camera with lighting in the troll extension, 362 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:37,440 high quality images of fish entering cod end. The onboard computer then identifies the 363 00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:44,599 size and species and so the decision is made in real time whether the fish 364 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,200 go into the cod end or don't. And that's using this very novel gate 365 00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:55,119 sustem that we've patented. So we've got a long way to go. Innovation 366 00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,200 takes time to go through lots of iterations of making things sure things work in 367 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,200 different situations. But the pieces of the system are now being brought together. 368 00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:12,119 They've being trial at see by the University Highlands and Island Shetland, and we 369 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:19,279 are we've been at sea in commercial vessels and we are making great strides towards 370 00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:25,000 what would be the biggest response to the landing obligation and all the other requirements 371 00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:29,400 to make sure that you catch what you want to catch, and you're releasing 372 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,480 what you don't want to catch on hand back into the sea. That seems 373 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:37,720 pretty impressive. And there's I take it's like cameras at the at the net 374 00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:43,839 and the skipper can be in the wheelose watching. That's what we're aiming for 375 00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:47,000 at the minute. We're just making the component pieces work, so an awful 376 00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:54,480 lot of AI artificial intelligence making sure that the camera would know what the particulars 377 00:32:54,519 --> 00:33:00,000 fish are. That's a new thing. The gate which either allows the fish 378 00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:06,519 to enter the colldent or make sure that other animals because again it's for animals 379 00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:09,799 you don't want to catch, so that that's not an issue. So all 380 00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:15,400 of these things are coming together. If your listeners want to know more, 381 00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:21,400 we've got a great video on the Fizz website which hopefully that can access and 382 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,319 you'll see it in action. We've got some lovely drone footage and footage of 383 00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:30,640 the skipper up in Shetland using this. So as I say, we're at 384 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,200 that point where we know it can work. We're bringing the different components together 385 00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:38,680 to try and show that as a whole it would work. And we actually 386 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:46,000 had it over in Dubai for the cop Coffers of parties in November where people 387 00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:50,559 are really interested in what we're doing, and we want to make sure that 388 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,559 this would be a piece of kit that would work for UK skippers so that 389 00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,039 it's not going to We would want it to be affordable and access so that 390 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:04,039 skippers could use it. Again, as I say, everything we do at 391 00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:07,559 FEZ is about being practical and affordable and make a difference on the water. 392 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:15,800 It's really exciting and as I know full well from many years of experience, 393 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:22,079 if it's practical and it works and makes sense, a fisherman will wear it. 394 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,760 We've been really lucky that not only have the board members been excited about 395 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,239 this, but also our stakeholder committee members. So of course as ever as 396 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,320 you'll know, fishermen will ask the point questions will We were at the Scottish 397 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:44,440 Skipper Expo in Aberdeen last year showing images that we've gathered from the bits of 398 00:34:44,519 --> 00:34:46,599 kept and of course of people saying well how does that work and how would 399 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,280 that work? And what would happen if you've got a tree stuck in that 400 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,239 and what would you know? All of these questions are so important because there's 401 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,360 lots of things that the cleverest people in the world won't thought of that a 402 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,800 skipper or somebody working in a boat will go, But what if that happens? 403 00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:07,280 And that's why all the time we're trying to make sure that the team 404 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,760 at Harriet Watt and Paul Fernande's team are bringing it all together, that we're 405 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,800 asking those really practical questions of well, what would happen if this happened on 406 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,360 both the vessels And of course now we've shown that the kit can go, 407 00:35:20,639 --> 00:35:24,000 can enter the water safely, can be brought up safely. Safety is always 408 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:30,000 the biggest thing in my mind. How would this help keep people safe and 409 00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:32,800 competitive? How would it build their business? And yeah, if we can 410 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,360 prove it works, then people will want it. It's really encouraging and as 411 00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:43,079 I'm well aware, i'm talking to the converted when I say it to you, 412 00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:49,840 but fisherman will accept it and if we can prove it works, but 413 00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:55,480 they will contribute to anything they can to make sure it does work. And 414 00:35:55,519 --> 00:36:01,400 I think it's I think it's fantastic for the project that they're talking and listening 415 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,800 to fishermen because they know that that's their environment. They know that, and 416 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:14,599 it's really great with a lot of them at times when scientists who are making 417 00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:21,280 ridiculous decisions, ridiculous in their minds is they've never spoken to a fisherman. 418 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,599 Yes, well, and I'm not. I don't come from a fishing family, 419 00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:30,239 come from a farming family. And I do say, it's still that 420 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:39,000 same generation cynical West of Scotlanders. So unless it's doing what it's meant to 421 00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:43,960 do, then let's not get excited. I'm the word is that they're going, 422 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,719 okay, we need we need critical friends to come and say what about 423 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:52,360 this? How will we make that better? And even when the whole thing's 424 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,599 work out, you know, as you know, every boat is different, 425 00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,639 every skipper is different, every you know, what you're using to fish where 426 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:04,639 and when is different, and we will have to test this on all these 427 00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:07,559 different points before I can be happy to say, okay, it's a thing. 428 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:13,719 I get that. But there's two points, two words you mentioned there 429 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,400 which I'll maybe just slightly pull you up, and one of them was let's 430 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:23,360 not get excited. And my answer to that would be why not because members 431 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,840 of my stakeholder committee have told me so often. You know, I can 432 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,719 get I can get way too enthusiastic about things and all it takes is one 433 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:36,639 person saying, but what about That's okay, that's okay. But I bet 434 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,599 you the type of person you are, you just shrug your shoulders and say, 435 00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:43,920 right, let's listen to what about. It doesn't put you down. 436 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:51,519 No. The other thing I was going to point out just minutes ago there 437 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,920 you expressed to me how lucky you were, Cara, I don't believe you're 438 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,559 talking to the wrong person. I don't believe in luck. We make our 439 00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:05,159 own luck, we work for it. So it's not you're lucky, you're 440 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,480 working, working hard. That's that's very kind of Again, it's but I 441 00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:19,199 do genuinely really appreciate the individual board members and stakeholder committee members who give their 442 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,800 time for this and they are a brilliant bunch of people that all are so 443 00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:31,559 genuinely enthusiastic about their industry and the businesses, and I think that's just fantastic 444 00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:36,880 and I do appreciate them. That's why I'm saying it's not luck. I 445 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:42,760 know a lot of the people you're talking about. It's not luck. I 446 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:49,480 always We've got my chairman is our German is John Goodlad from Shetland, and 447 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,840 it's just fantastic to have John, given that he's an author and historian and 448 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:59,280 he knows so much about our industry's past and how we've come but yet he's 449 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:05,760 so in stressed in what we're going into and the opportunities going forward. So 450 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:12,280 often we talk as an organization about those opportunities and yes, there are threats 451 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,280 and there are worries, but there are so many great things that we can 452 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,960 look forward to. And it's brilliant to have people like John who know so 453 00:39:21,079 --> 00:39:25,480 much about where we've come from but still get very excited about the opportunities in 454 00:39:25,519 --> 00:39:29,960 the future. A huge respect for John. I know him very well for 455 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:36,559 a long time, and in fact, before this podcast will be released, 456 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:45,239 there'll be two with John just before that. Oh locally bored of its so 457 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,239 yeah, really good classroom as a really close friend, and exactly everything you 458 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,960 said he goes. But like I said earlier about myself, his father, 459 00:39:54,159 --> 00:40:00,719 his parents, his family were fishing, so he knows the industry so well. 460 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:08,039 And I remember when he was in the SFF and the Shetland Fishermen's Association 461 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:15,679 in the Scottish and that he had a huge respect from government ministers and they 462 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,800 really light speaking to him because they knew they could trust them. He had 463 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,960 a great rapport with all sectors of the industry. I thought it was fantastic. 464 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:35,840 So you're in good hands with the organization going on from a brow. 465 00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:43,679 While innovation we've talked about all the innovation, but sustainability class sustainability, it's 466 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:51,079 really important for the fishing industry. But unfortunately I often classic as the most 467 00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:57,519 abused word in the English language because a lot of people use it with absolutely 468 00:40:57,679 --> 00:41:01,639 no depth whatsoever behind it. One of the things that I do feel from 469 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:07,880 speaking to many fishermen in all methods of fishing, from bottom trawling, saying 470 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:14,679 itting, scallop dredging, they'll go For example, good close close friends of 471 00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:19,360 mine who are scallop dreaders, who over the course of the year will go 472 00:41:19,639 --> 00:41:24,840 right round the British isles different times of the year, fishing different areas depending 473 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,119 on the season. And in one case a close friend he has been over 474 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,159 forty years doing it, and as he says, well, what's not sustainable 475 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,639 about that? So as I always feel that I have to remind people, 476 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:47,480 and as don't know when I've first started working with in maritime work within seafood, 477 00:41:47,679 --> 00:41:52,679 but more from fishy side. You know, my background is with non 478 00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:58,480 governmental organizations, environmental organizations, and there are there are some individuals in the 479 00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:01,920 industry that still remember me is or they say, oh, you're on bird 480 00:42:02,039 --> 00:42:07,880 coin because I used to work with with the are SPB and with other organizations. 481 00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:13,039 You know, I do feel really keenly that we show and we prove 482 00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:17,679 our credentials about being that dreadful word sustainable in all aspects, and I think 483 00:42:17,679 --> 00:42:23,000 that we can do that. I get worried when people who maybe don't understand 484 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:28,320 the industry, and I'm not pretending at all that I do understand all aspects 485 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,440 of it, even I feel that I'm getting there slightly. But this idea 486 00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:36,280 that we should all move to one kind of gear, or we could all 487 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,719 move to one kind of fishery just has shows such a lack of understanding about 488 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:49,159 markets and how the different fisheries that we require to catch different fish to supply 489 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:54,480 different markets. And something that we've spoken about a lot with different groups like 490 00:42:54,519 --> 00:43:00,400 Fishing into the Future and others, is this idea of fishing litle you say, 491 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:06,400 so you have people from the communities of Insoe Fishing Alliance that are really 492 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,199 great about this, saying people we need to explain to people what our industry 493 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:15,400 does and explain that there are different kinds of fisheries for different fish in different 494 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:22,440 places, and really to help people understand the complexity of supply chains, and 495 00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:27,440 hopefully that will help us get away from this idea that one kind of fishing 496 00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:31,639 is good and another kind of fishing is bad when people think it's simplistic, 497 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:36,760 as small as good, large as bad, or that if you fish in 498 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,400 a particular manner then you are somehow salt of the earth, but if you're 499 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,000 a slightly larger boat fishing in a slightly different way, you're suddenly evil. 500 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:52,760 I just that I find incredibly difficult to contend with. My view is that 501 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:59,039 there are good things you can do that help in a whole in lots of 502 00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:02,800 different ways. So I feel that if you are fishing smart and informed, 503 00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:08,199 precision fishing for a market where you know that your quality of fish that you're 504 00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:13,360 catching can get a good price, that means that you're out there for a 505 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,679 shorter period of time, you can reduce your emissions. You're safer because you're 506 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,800 not at sea, You're not being pushed to go somewhere you don't want to 507 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,519 go. You can save fuel, and that means that you have a quality 508 00:44:24,639 --> 00:44:28,239 product that you can sell for a good price. Now, that to me 509 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,039 is the holy grail, and that to me is if you are fishing for 510 00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:36,400 a great product for a good market in the best possible way. That to 511 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:42,320 me is sustainability. It's about that whole piece and making sure that your business 512 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,559 and the community that supports them are benefiting from that great way of fishing. 513 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,199 That's what I would like to see, you know. It's just reminding me 514 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,000 when you're talking there with the different methods of fishing and different times than that. 515 00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:00,519 I remember my father used to tell me when he was at school, 516 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:06,800 my grandfather, his father had a boat and there were line hand lanes and 517 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:14,000 things like that, and it's my father and his brothers. They bought a 518 00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:19,280 boat and went to the scene, and everybody thought, that's the finish of 519 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,719 the fishing. That's the end of the fishing. Now we're talking in the 520 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,039 early fifties, so that was going to finish the fishing. And then there 521 00:45:27,079 --> 00:45:30,360 were some of them getting bigger, so that was going to finish it. 522 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,920 Then they started trolling, so it was definitely going to be the finish. 523 00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:38,960 Then there was peared trolleys, and it just went on and every time they 524 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:45,840 saw something new, and his words here innovative, innovative, that was going 525 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:51,440 to be the finish of the fishing. And I think I think the fish 526 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:57,679 stocks are more resilient than ever people realize and don't. I don't think anybody 527 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:04,360 would argue that there are movements to be made and that where we can tread 528 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,719 lighter on the environment, where we can reduce emissions, where we can make 529 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:13,320 sure that the welfare of both the catch and the folk that are catching them, 530 00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:17,480 we will always try and make improvements. But that's about moving forward. 531 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,280 It's when it's suggested that we all go back in time to something that I 532 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:27,599 probably didn't even exist in the first place, that I really worry Now. 533 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,880 I love the history of the industry. I love the Scottish Fish Museum, 534 00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:37,880 or with the Fishmonger's Company, looking at that brilliant history of Fishmonger's Hall, 535 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,599 for example. That's great, but it's also about looking forward. And so 536 00:46:42,639 --> 00:46:46,599 this idea that we can all go back in time to southwesterns and creoles for 537 00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:52,039 everybody I really worry about, I've got just a ever so slightly different way 538 00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:58,280 of saying the exact same as you said there, Kara, I am interested 539 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:04,559 in tomorrow. I have no yesterday. I don't like yesterday. You know, 540 00:47:04,679 --> 00:47:08,719 the history of everything that we've done in our sees really fascinates me and 541 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:16,159 so I still love thinking about where we've come from. I'm really proud that 542 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:20,719 one of my members is the Fishmonger's Company and the fact that for seven hundred 543 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:25,000 and fifty years one of the ancient liveries, I think that's just wonderful. 544 00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:32,280 When we had our the Fizz meetings in London just before Christmas at Fishmongers Hall, 545 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:37,159 and I always get such a feeling of pride when you walk in to 546 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:43,639 that building and you you know just for how long that it's been such an 547 00:47:43,679 --> 00:47:47,039 important industry, the whole of the seafood sector in the UK. So does 548 00:47:47,079 --> 00:47:52,360 it gives me an awful lot of pride. But I'm also get really excited 549 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,880 when you see some of our kind of state at the art vessels, whether 550 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,719 you're in Shetland or up northeat down the Southwest. So it's both sides, 551 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,000 isn't it. It's the history, but also that the next steps that we're 552 00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:10,559 taken together, I think I got it wrong there. To be honest, 553 00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:17,079 I think what I should have said was I'm more interested in tomorrow than yesterday. 554 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:22,159 Kara on the shore side, I keeping it on the subject as far 555 00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:28,760 as sustainability is concerned. The last project I had had a seafood restaurant in 556 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:35,559 Scraps there and we reached the point we were number six to the top ten 557 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:43,320 sustainable restaurants in the world. With an environmental bloggers, an American outfit they 558 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,800 had his number six, who to the top ten in the world. We've 559 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:53,639 been this sustainable UK seafood restaurant and one of the things that I felt always 560 00:48:53,760 --> 00:49:00,159 was really was really strongly and I as always kept the ethical and environ or 561 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:07,400 mental policy. I always felt a central plank of that was not just buying 562 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:13,559 the fish you want, but utilizing every part of it. Waste to me 563 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:19,880 is just awful. And every part of a fish I would use for different 564 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,840 things, the different parts of it, the cheeks, the jaws, the 565 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:29,400 belly, flap, the loin, tail and every part of it. So 566 00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:36,000 on a principle, why buy five fish when you get by with two or 567 00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:43,320 three? Absolutely, there's also this idea of the other uses for byproducts. 568 00:49:43,679 --> 00:49:49,320 So I know that some of the Northern Irish fishermen, fishermen here in Scotland 569 00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:57,039 and England elsewhere are really interested by what has been managed in Iceland to balorize 570 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,760 by product or what was thought of being a waste product. So yes, 571 00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:07,039 using what you can for human consumption and sale, but where there's other ideas 572 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,840 to use the byproducts of fishing and if that as long as that money comes 573 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:15,880 back into the industry, I think that's a fantastic thing to consider. Yeah, 574 00:50:16,119 --> 00:50:23,159 definitely. And also we should never forget the product we're talking about as 575 00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:29,760 far as health benefit. You're talking on super food. It's so healthy. 576 00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:37,079 Look at different nutritional values and what you can different nutritions affect or benefit our 577 00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:43,320 health and you could see every one of them. And seafood. I think 578 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:50,400 people like espen McDonald at the Scotish Fishman's Federation and Marcus Coleman at Seafish are 579 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:55,159 really strong at representing the industry to say so. But we are producing this 580 00:50:55,320 --> 00:51:02,159 fantastic food for people to eat, and sometimes I think that folk can forget 581 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:09,039 that fish are really interesting species and people can forget that this species becomes really 582 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,599 an important food for the world. Yeah, as I said, when you 583 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:21,320 you know, you look for one example, you look at all the central 584 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,639 minerals that we need to be healthy and just say for one of them, 585 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:32,320 zinc. Well, oysters put zinc off the Richter scale. There's a really 586 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:40,119 interesting project being run about getting about muscles in schools and shellfish in schools, 587 00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:45,360 and of course people like the Shellfish Association of Great Britain. All of that 588 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,599 work to tell the great stories is really important, isn't it. And not 589 00:51:49,679 --> 00:51:53,280 to forget, you've mentioned the word a few times today and everybody loves a 590 00:51:53,320 --> 00:52:00,440 story. It's absolutely true, and sometimes you have to explain to people why 591 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,599 are you trying to tell that story. So, for example, the wind 592 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,000 there was an awful lot of top but a year or so ago about emissions 593 00:52:10,039 --> 00:52:17,920 from vessels and what and whether seafood as the carbon conscious industry, and there 594 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:23,159 was an awful lot of people talking about net zero and decarbonization. And one 595 00:52:23,199 --> 00:52:25,440 of the things that we like to do, if FITZ, is just to 596 00:52:25,519 --> 00:52:30,400 have a big kind of closer look at some of these stories that come out 597 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,280 in the media. And we wondered, well, what does a decarbonization mean 598 00:52:34,679 --> 00:52:38,559 for us as safefood producers. What does net zero mean? What does a 599 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:45,320 just transition mean? So we got people together to have a discussion about what 600 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:51,039 that might mean for us, and we asked McDuff ship Design to help us 601 00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:57,719 understand what a net zero vessel might look like. And again people were again, 602 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,159 why on earth would you want to look at this? It's impossible or 603 00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:05,760 it's difficult, And we didn't want to do it because we thought it would 604 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,400 be easy. We wanted to do it so that we had an idea of 605 00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:15,000 what it actually meant. All these buzzwords of net zero or no emissions, 606 00:53:15,159 --> 00:53:17,840 what would it mean? And we asked, as I say, mcderfs ship 607 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,840 Design to look at the most plausible pathways forward for the UK fleep. So 608 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:30,079 often the headlines where o let's sort of moved to electric vessels? Really could 609 00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:32,880 we do that? But wouldn't that mean or you'd hear you heard people say, 610 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:37,800 oh, they're they're managing to use such and such fuel in Norway. 611 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:44,039 You know they're looking at at LNG or methanol in Norway. So we wanted 612 00:53:44,079 --> 00:53:49,679 to have a closer look at what that meant to us, and it showed 613 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:57,239 from these first ever concept designs that Mcdufship Design helped us prepare was that these 614 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,239 vessels would be possible in the future. Some of the fuels could be possible 615 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:08,960 even now. However, all alternative fuels have a lower energy density and more 616 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:15,360 complicated storage and handling requirements, so that if we were to take these buzzwords 617 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:22,000 or the headlines about net zero vessels, you would need to have significant thought 618 00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:28,000 going into what your infrastructure look like, the supply chains in terms of being 619 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,239 able to build these vessels, the safety requirements around these vessels, the training 620 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:37,320 needs for the people who work on shore and offshore. So behind a buzzword 621 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:43,800 like net zero or no emissions from fishing vessels, there's actually an awful lot 622 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,199 of thought needs to go into those things, and for us to help for 623 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:53,960 either individual skippers or businesses, or vessel builders and vessel designers, they need 624 00:54:54,039 --> 00:55:00,320 support to understand how we get from where we are now to where either the 625 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:06,000 supermarkets or government want us to be in twenty forty five, for example. 626 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,960 So a lot of it has taken those seemingly quite easy questions that get mentioned 627 00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:15,599 in the media are just transition and really picking it apart to say, well, 628 00:55:15,639 --> 00:55:20,719 what will that mean for the fishing industry and the seafood industry, and 629 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,159 how do we get for me to be in a way that helps businesses stay 630 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:30,599 safe and competitive? Yeah, very true, well said as well, And 631 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,960 it was saying it in a way it was really important for us not just 632 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,639 to say oh, it will be different, because again we've talked a lot 633 00:55:37,679 --> 00:55:40,360 today about we don't often get the benefit of the doubt. De Wey or 634 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,559 some people would say, well, they would say that. So by working 635 00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:52,239 with vessel builders, besel designers, working with universities such as Extra University's Center 636 00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:57,000 for Future Clean Mobility, if they're all saying yes, there's a lot of 637 00:55:57,039 --> 00:56:00,800 thought needs to go into how we move in a truly just transition that doesn't 638 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:06,880 leave people behind, that doesn't leave businesses with stranded assets, that make sure 639 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,960 that we do this in the most safe way possible. It takes a lot 640 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:15,599 of thought. Whereas I found that if an individual fission business said it's too 641 00:56:15,639 --> 00:56:17,599 hard, people would go well, they would say that, wouldn't they. 642 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,079 So you know, together we can say we are thinking about these things, 643 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:29,000 but we do need financial support and our roadmap to help us make sure that 644 00:56:29,039 --> 00:56:32,480 we all stay in business and we all stay. See tell me your leverage 645 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:38,320 is it three million pound into innovation? Now I must be very clear. 646 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:43,679 I'd love to say it was all me. I only came into to about 647 00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:49,480 five years ago. And obviously Fisher's Innovation Scotland has been around since about twenty 648 00:56:49,559 --> 00:56:53,840 fourteen and we became a UK organization last year, so lots of people have 649 00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,639 been involved in this. So it's either as I say, we're funded and 650 00:56:58,679 --> 00:57:04,079 governed by our book, so our border incredibly generous with our membership fees. 651 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:10,360 But also we either match fund we ask for we apply for grant funding for 652 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:16,440 example with the Seafood Innovation Fund that's helped us with smartrawl, with Marine Fund 653 00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:23,800 Scotland that's helped us with our net zero vessel designs and working with everybody from 654 00:57:24,039 --> 00:57:30,360 the unclude Fishermen's Trust who we ran our workshops looking at a just transition, 655 00:57:30,159 --> 00:57:35,280 looking at net zero vessels and we got some money from people like the Lloyd's 656 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:40,880 Register Foundation. So we're very keen to work with people and match fund and 657 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:46,000 to raise funds that goes directly into all the projects, doesn't come to this 658 00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,880 doesn't come to good individuals, but helps us create these projects that we can 659 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:59,400 take forward together. It's hard work, had to say, there's fewer pots 660 00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:05,440 of money and less money, and I feel very strongly that when there is 661 00:58:05,679 --> 00:58:13,599 money available for sustainability at sea, then I feel it should come to coalitions 662 00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:17,519 that really know what they're talking about, that can implement things directly, and 663 00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:22,920 that can try all things at see to make a difference, rather than I 664 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:28,280 want thing to be practical, rather than reports that may or may not actually 665 00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:31,239 see the light the day. So we want to make sure that the money 666 00:58:31,239 --> 00:58:36,880 that is out there is bent properly and actually helps us improve things. And 667 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:42,719 what do you see about the support prosperous and sustainable UK seafood. It's got 668 00:58:42,719 --> 00:58:46,840 an exciting future, I hope so, and I think it's I do as 669 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,320 I said already, I'm repeating myself. It's in good hands. The industry 670 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,000 is in good hands. But there's a lot of really good people in it, 671 00:58:55,039 --> 00:59:04,599 and it's an industry with lots of amazing character. Absolutely there are that, 672 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,840 you know, I say to them, had it not been their generosity 673 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:14,639 when I was really new in this sector and didn't mind me asking the dark 674 00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:17,239 questions. There were some people who just straight away went okay, then right, 675 00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,760 let's tell you what the reality is of this. And we're really you 676 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,639 know, open, and I think that everybody comes into to seafood industry and 677 00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:31,559 is genuinely interested in ask questions. Everybody is is so generous with their with 678 00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:37,960 their time and then saying that I hope people continue to be so because we're 679 00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:45,199 always looking for ideas for what those innovation needs are to help the UK seafood 680 00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:50,320 industry. So if there are people out there, if your listeners, if 681 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:55,039 they have ideas about how we could improve the way that we catch seafood, 682 00:59:55,159 --> 01:00:00,840 process seafood, how we manage fisheries, how we structure markets and supply chains, 683 01:00:01,239 --> 01:00:07,960 any of those ideas that could help lead to whether it's a greater efficiency 684 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:14,840 or reducing environmental impact, please do get in touch. We want to hear 685 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:21,679 ideas that need testing or problems to unravel. Or I don't think we're good 686 01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,440 enough about telling the good news stories and again I'm using those words, but 687 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,719 those the best practice. How do we help roll out best practice? How 688 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:37,159 do we make sure that people know about the great moves forward within the industry. 689 01:00:37,159 --> 01:00:44,440 There's always so many negative stories and yet every day you hear about good 690 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,199 ideas and good people do good things, and we should do more to trumpet 691 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:52,119 that. Yeah. To finish up, I would just like to thank you 692 01:00:52,199 --> 01:00:58,119 so much for today Kara and a party in thought. I think, yes, 693 01:00:58,159 --> 01:01:04,119 there's maybe countries for their advance, but the role was somebody better or 694 01:01:04,239 --> 01:01:07,400 further ahead out there. But we're not sitting back in the doll drums. 695 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:14,000 We're in a good place, I absolutely agree. And we're here to talk 696 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:21,800 with similar organizations. There's the innovation centers in Canada and the University's in Newfoundland. 697 01:01:22,199 --> 01:01:27,000 We talk a lot with colleagues in the States. There's great projects happening 698 01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,559 in West Africa. There's lots of things happening there, and we learn from 699 01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:37,719 and can help wherever we can. Yeah, and that's really the ethis of 700 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:43,159 your whole organization, all sectors talking to each other. I think that's so 701 01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:46,760 fantastic and it's really pleasing to hear. Oh, thank you, You've been 702 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:52,559 so supportive and thanks for giving us this opportunity to tell people a little about 703 01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:58,440 what we do. Thank you for listening to this episode. If you liked 704 01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,599 it, had subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a five 705 01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:07,559 star review. And if you want to speak with me, visit Seafood Matters 706 01:02:07,639 --> 01:02:25,280 podcast dot com.