WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.639 --> 00:00:06.960 This atrocity that I'm about to read comes from Genesis chapter sixteen, verses one 2 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:12.160 through four. Let us open our bibles. Sarai, Abraham's wife, and 3 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:16.440 had an Egyptian slave girl. And Sarai said to Abraham, you see that 4 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:20.559 the Lord has prevented me from bearing children. Go into my slave girl. 5 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:25.800 It may be that I shall obtain children by her. And Abrahm listened to 6 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:30.079 the voice of Sarai. So Sarai took her slave girl and gave her to 7 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:35.600 her husband as a wife. He went into her and she conceived. Here's 8 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:41.399 proof that Yahweh, the very insignificant Mesopotamian storm God turned Hebrew creator God, 9 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:45.320 has no issue with slavery, rape, or kidnapping, since part of his 10 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:49.719 plan obviously was for Abraham to rape his slave and give her child to his 11 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:53.840 own wife. It's no wonder that the founders of this very country not only 12 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:58.159 use the Bible to justify slavery, but also rape their slaves and sold off 13 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:03.560 their children. If you're a Christian Hebrew American and you are outraged by anything 14 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.400 that I just said, then you don't really know much about the history of 15 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.359 your country or your religion. In fact, you're ignigrant to quite a bit, 16 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.120 and I think you should call the show and talk to us about it, 17 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:23.560 because it's starting now. Hello, Hello, everybody, Welcome to another 18 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.000 episode of Talk Heathen. I am your host today objectively Dan. Today is 19 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:32.920 Sunday, October first, twenty twenty three, and joining me today is Jimmy 20 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:38.280 Junior, other host of Talk Heathen. First time US of US hosting Talk 21 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:44.159 Heathen together though, So yeah, that's yeah, that's right. Happy to 22 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:47.000 be here with you today live from New York City. As you can see, 23 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:49.200 we are right, we are together, perched up in our skyscraper. 24 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:53.239 Yeah, you know, top of this. We we bought this building together, 25 00:01:53.599 --> 00:02:00.519 actually, Dan and Jamie Junior's Building Properties, Inc. And operated. 26 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.519 You can see, we've got a nice New York skyline and it's great. 27 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.920 Don't ask us how we got the money, because I couldn't explain to you 28 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:10.039 honestly. Jimmy Junior just said, don't worry about it, and that was 29 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:14.639 it. I know a guy, he knows a guy. I assume multiple 30 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:17.159 guys, but at least one guy, and that's all that matters. So 31 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:21.560 if you're wondering what this is hanky, then is a product of the Atheist 32 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:24.840 Community of Austin, a five O one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to the 33 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:30.439 promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, in the separation of religion 34 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.400 and government. And this is a live call in show, which means Yusha 35 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:38.479 Colin because we have open lines right now. So the number for the show 36 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:40.800 is five one two nine nine one nine two four two, or you can 37 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:46.520 call from your computer at tiny dot cc slash call th h Jimmy, how 38 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:49.280 you do it? This week? You're doing all right. I am doing 39 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:51.800 all right. I am in a really good mood. I'm happy to be 40 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.240 here with you. We are reunited. I haven't worked with you since March 41 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:59.000 on truth wanted, so reunited. It feels so good. That's right, 42 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:01.960 says Yeah, Yeah, I'm happy to be here with you. Two. 43 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:07.639 Before we get to calls, though, we do have our question of the 44 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:09.879 week. It's the question that we're asking you guys every single week and we're 45 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:15.159 reading your responses too. And the last week's question we asked was what is 46 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.759 inappropriate to say at a religious funeral? This was a hot question to ask. 47 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:23.960 Was a little nervous about some of the responses, but we have our 48 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:28.039 top three responses for you here. It's number three comes from our ur al 49 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:31.439 Turner, who says, sorry, that's our turner. My contexts are not 50 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:35.039 in right again, and I gotta work with that. But anyway, it 51 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:38.439 says inappropriate thing to say at a religious funeral. I'm sure he's down below 52 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:45.080 screaming up at us. Which is which is really? I know that's an 53 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:49.360 old George Carlin reference. Is it George Carlin? That sounds like George Carlin 54 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.479 thing? Okay, all right, I'm knocking off points for stealing from George 55 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.280 Carlin. But you know what, maybe George Carlin is screaming up at us, 56 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.800 telling us we're stealing as jokes, so regardless of that. Number two 57 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:05.280 comes from Kirk and Kirk and MP, who says, inappropriate thing to say 58 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:10.879 to Christian funeral. We are gathered here today on this joyous occasion to celebrate 59 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:15.120 the passing of the deceased. Maybe all join him soon, which is a 60 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.120 very funny. I don't know. I like that one. Number one comes 61 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:24.920 from Veranda Rendsburger, who also had the number three and number one comment on 62 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:28.480 truth Wanted the other day. By the way, it said inappropriate thing to 63 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:31.639 say at a religious funeral. Let's give it three days and see if it 64 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:38.439 takes. Which is awesome, well, very good. These are great answers. 65 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.120 These are better than I was very afraid of the answer to the question 66 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.920 last week, but we ended up getting some really good ones. So this 67 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:48.319 week is gonna be a little bit different. We actually have a caption context. 68 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:53.600 So audio listeners, I'm sorry because you're not gonna be able to participate 69 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:56.920 as much. But let's be real, you probably weren't commenting on YouTube anyway 70 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:01.040 because you're listening somewhere else. So this week is the caption this image, 71 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:06.720 it's me and Sophia from last week's talking. Then what are we saying in 72 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.680 this Uh, you know we want to know, So give us your best 73 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:14.399 caption below. And Jimmy, you had a really good caption for this. 74 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:16.959 What was your caption for this? This image? On screen? Here? 75 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:24.079 This this image reeks of eighteen seventies wild West misogyny. It looks like Dan 76 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:29.519 is optioning off Sophia and he's saying, you two folks, you too, 77 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.639 you can win a date with this young lady. She's cooked clean, she's 78 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:36.759 cautioning her off for a date. It's so funny you can read and write. 79 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.000 It's so right though. I laughed so hard when you type that. 80 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:44.480 I thought that was so funny. But yeah, that's a good one, 81 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:46.120 so you can't steal that. You guys have to think of a better one 82 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.720 than that. But good luck, because I think that one's pretty good. 83 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:53.399 Yeah, I want to see what you guys right, So give us a 84 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:58.000 shout out in the comment below saying caption contest and giving your your caption and 85 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:02.920 we will pick our top three for next week. Jimmy, this is of 86 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:08.639 course a call in show, but this show does a lot of work and 87 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:12.439 we cannot do the work on this show without thinking the wonderful, awesome, 88 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:16.000 fantastic crew that helps make this show happen every single week. So we're giving 89 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.519 a quick shout out to the crew through our crew cam and we got Rabbits, 90 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:26.800 oh Man cats on crew today doing the hard work of being cute and 91 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:30.079 doing what they gotta do and real quick. Also, we do have a 92 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:31.639 super chat that is one way you can support the show is through a super 93 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:36.160 chats. We have one from Greg Markowski who gives five dollars and says thanks 94 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:40.800 Jimmy Junior and objectively Dan for the show, and you are welcome. You 95 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.879 are absolutely welcome. We are happy to be here. Jimmy, you're ready 96 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.240 to talk to some folks. Yes, yes, I have been waiting for 97 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:49.959 this all week. Let's jump in. Let's do it. Let's do it. 98 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:55.360 We have our first call from Charles calling from Pennsylvania. Charles, you 99 00:06:55.399 --> 00:07:00.600 are live on talkie. Then, what's going on? Are you? Thanks? 100 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:04.319 Yeah. They talked about evolution and stuff like that. And I talked 101 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:08.519 to Richard Gilliver a couple of weeks ago. He said, you had an 102 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:13.480 evolution specialist on there. Wanted me to call in, but I couldn't wait 103 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:15.480 too long. There was other people ahead of me. And see, anyway, 104 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:19.800 I'm glad I got in here today. But maybe you could answer during 105 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:25.480 the beginning, whenever humans were just evolving in this world is pretty primitive, 106 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:33.720 there were wild predators evolving too, and mostly wild animals are a lot faster 107 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:39.079 than humans. They have claws and sharp, big teeth, and they could 108 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:44.959 smell a mile away. And so if a human was evolving and he had 109 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:49.199 a woman with him and a baby crying in the woods at night, and 110 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:55.600 so the wild predators would hear that and they were very hungry, so they 111 00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:00.800 would come after and find those humans and eat them. Basically, humans only 112 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:03.959 have one baby at the time normally, and like say, wild predators, 113 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.560 they have a litter, they have a bunch of you know, offspring. 114 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:13.000 So it seems to me that you'd have a lot of wild predators searching for 115 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:18.560 something to eat, and that little baby wouldn't shut up crying and here comes 116 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.240 and how would man protect against that? And you can't tell me. Sticks 117 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.519 and rocks and they had fire, and they didn't have fire in the beginning, 118 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:35.000 but I wouldn't imagine, but God protected man in the early beginnings from 119 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:41.720 wild predators. It's it's my thought. Okay, just real quick and your 120 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:50.919 point of view. How long ago are we talking here? Thank yeah? 121 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.639 And whenever man begins to evolve, I'm not sure. I don't know, 122 00:08:54.840 --> 00:09:00.720 but I'm not sure anybody really knows that far back. My take on this 123 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:03.080 first, and then let Jimmy give his take on this. But you have 124 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.440 to keep in mind a couple of things here, because when we're talking about 125 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:09.759 the origin of humans, that can be a little bit tricky. But we 126 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:13.600 need a modern like Homo sapiens. Right. One thing to consider with this 127 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:18.240 is Remember we're not the only primates on Earth. Right. There are also 128 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.879 guerrillas and chimpanzees that also give about one you know, one baby at a 129 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.279 time, right, that are very similar to us, and I would argue 130 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:30.799 have less defenses than we do in some circumstances, right, I mean, 131 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:33.600 certainly, I don't think you think a chimpanzee is as smart or a gorilla 132 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.039 is as smart as a human being, right, as the ability to manipulate 133 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:41.159 tools and things like that. But even beyond that, right, there are 134 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:46.000 animals that have different reproduction strategies. Deer, for example, right, dear, 135 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.240 don't have any defenses. Whatsoever they run is their defense. But we 136 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:54.799 still have deer around. Why do we do that because fray animals have typically 137 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.600 larger offsprings, right, So there's kind of an offset there. So while 138 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:03.919 you may think of us as defenseless, early primates are actually predators in many 139 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.600 sense. One of the ways we know this is that most predators on Earth 140 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:11.440 tend to have frontwood facing eyes as opposed to eyes on the sides of their 141 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:15.720 head like deer do. Another what we consider prey animals. So there's a 142 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:20.919 lot of speculation that early humans could be just as savage and just as predatory 143 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:24.639 as any other kind of predator. Do we have weaknesses? Are there other 144 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.159 animals that could prey on us? Sure? But if you think of the 145 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.000 average ape size as well, I mean, that's typically larger than what you 146 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.440 see in most ecosystems, we're very large organisms. That size in itself is 147 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.600 very helpful. But the earliest of humans are speculated to have two different kinds 148 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:48.679 of you know, mechanisms, one being the fact that we're bipedal means that 149 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:52.639 there's speculation that we were able to run first, right, which other apes 150 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.759 aren't able to do. So we're kind of running on the savannah. We're 151 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:03.000 able to actually track down animals using ambulatory predation, right. We're actually able 152 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:09.039 to outlast a lot of animals in terms of our exhaustion and our ability to 153 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:13.440 maintain stamina. We can do marathons. Other animals can't really do that, 154 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.919 right. Animals like lions and stuff will do these sprints, but they can't 155 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.559 really keep it up for that long. Cheetahs they're known for going really fast, 156 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.360 for example, but that's not something they can keep up for a long 157 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.240 time. Humans can actually stay for a long periods of time, which is 158 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:28.840 interesting, so you know, and on top of that, of course we 159 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:33.919 have our tool making abilities and stuff too, right, so just point out 160 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.399 there we have a lot of actually ways we can support ourselves and also be 161 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:43.120 predators, not just pray that even other apes on Earth who don't have those 162 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.919 kinds of tools don't have and yet still exist. To have this idea that, 163 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.639 oh, we must have been protected by God. I would wonder if 164 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:54.919 you'd say the same about bnobos or chimpanzees or gorillas who are just as defensive, 165 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:00.279 if not more so, but yet still survive on Earth and I don't 166 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.039 know, still do wealth for themselves although their biggest honestly a lot of those 167 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:09.039 animals biggest harm as humans at this point. But that's for another day to 168 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:11.480 talk about. Jimmy, what do you think of my answer? What do 169 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:13.679 you what do you have to contribute? Because I know you have some thoughts 170 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:16.639 too. I do, I do, and I thought your answer was very 171 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:22.799 good. I like the idea about tools, but I want to kind of 172 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:28.120 reflect on some of the things that excuse me. What was what's our Charles 173 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.279 Charles from Pennsylvania, Yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the things that 174 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.559 Charles said, so, first of all, people still get killed by predators 175 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.440 today. Okay, so uh going through history and we're not you're not really 176 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:43.679 giving us a kind of a time period. But not everybody was protected. 177 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.919 I mean some people were still eating, some people were still killed. Uh, 178 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.759 And so that's important to figure out did God protect those people? Why 179 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.120 did some people make it and some people didn't? And then why are we 180 00:12:54.200 --> 00:13:01.000 still being killed today? That happens a lot all the time. Hippopotamus kills 181 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:05.279 more people every year than than any animal on earth. So just some food 182 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.799 for thought there. But you know, as humans were evolving, so were 183 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:15.159 the predators and as and so were our defense mechanisms against them, our methods. 184 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.799 And you say, well, don't tell me we had fire and sticks. 185 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.919 You know what, that's actually pretty important. You know for a group 186 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:28.240 of weaker, weaker, a weaker species to surround a more you know, 187 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:33.840 stronger and dangerous species, all holding sticks, all holding something to where they 188 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.879 the animal realizes that it would have to take on the entire group. And 189 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.240 then we're holding these things that make us look bigger than we are. Is 190 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:43.440 certainly a defense mechanism that would be effective. In fact, that's why we 191 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:48.120 started doing it. Look at the cobra, for example. The cobra has 192 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.039 maybe a one on one and a half inch flap of skin on each side 193 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:54.080 of its head that it expands when it's around the predator. Can it really 194 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:56.720 defeat a predator with a flap of skin. No, But they have to 195 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:00.559 look at that snake and say, this thing's bigger than and I thought, 196 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.440 and maybe they'll turn away and that snake gets to survive. The puffer fish 197 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.600 is another example. No tools of its own right, but it's able to 198 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.639 expand its body so that it looks like more of a threat than it is, 199 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.080 and maybe a would be predator decides to change its mind. And so 200 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:18.559 those are kind of the things that just come to mind. You know, 201 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:28.799 there isn't a formula that works for one set or one ancestor of the human 202 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:33.200 species that is consistent throughout time. It had to change as the predators changed, 203 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.960 and we all kind of evolved together, and we are still evolving and 204 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.159 we're still being killed by predators. Finally, that brings me to my last 205 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:48.279 point. How do we know that God protected anybody? I mean that that 206 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:54.399 is the key, the key question I have after your analysis or your synopsis. 207 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.279 You don't know how some people survived. Therefore God is your answer, 208 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.919 and that is insufficient for me. So I would ask you to kind of 209 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.799 respond, uh, you know, please respond to what Dan and I had 210 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:09.360 to say, but also tell me how do you know that God was protecting 211 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:15.840 anyone? Okay? Yeah, I like say, I don't know evolution, 212 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:20.039 and what I said was maybe something that somebody could study and kind of pinpoint 213 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.840 on that. But the reason I know that God is real I call it 214 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:31.639 in before about this. I've randomly found a photograph of my grandfather on hold 215 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.840 on, hold on, Charles. I'm sorry, Charles, can I can 216 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:37.679 I just step in here for a second. I'm sorry. So, so 217 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.559 you said you don't know anything about evolution and that's something that somebody would need 218 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:45.919 to study, and you you moved on, and basically what I what I 219 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.240 really want you to do is kind of try and harken back for the original 220 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.960 intent of your call and answer. You know, how do you know that 221 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.679 God protected people? You called with and you posited the claim that humans human 222 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:03.480 beings survived and an out lived some predator species because God was protecting us. 223 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.480 And now you're transitioning to a picture of your grandfather, and I can't. 224 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.639 We can't kind of move on just yet. All right. I want to 225 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:14.000 know what you have to say about Dan and I, the responses that Dan 226 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:19.080 and I gave you, and how you can attribute mankind's success to God. 227 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.840 Well, you know, God can if he wants to say he was the 228 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:32.120 creator. He can intervene in any way he chooses. That's like people talk 229 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:34.960 about the flood. I heard somebody say one time that there's not back then, 230 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.240 there wasn't enough water to cover the earth. And so I thought about 231 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:45.279 that, you know, and if Jesus, assuming Israel moll applied loaves of 232 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:51.519 bread, then God could actually mall apply how much water was on here and 233 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.440 get rid of it. Again. I mean, he can do things whin 234 00:16:53.480 --> 00:17:03.519 there's no witnesses. Why would God want to evade detection? If he's got 235 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:11.519 a story that he called the planet, why cover up? He wants people 236 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.680 to come through him, to him through faith. He doesn't want you know 237 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:19.599 and that he's real, because it'd be kind of like having a camera watching 238 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.279 you every day, every move you made. You'd say, God's real. 239 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.960 He's watching me. I better behave and he wants you to kind of have 240 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:32.440 that gray area. Maybe we're Okay, I'm gonna do what I wanted. 241 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.039 There's no proof I'm gonna live my life and do what I want. So 242 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:38.880 you're more natural as far as being being watched, you know, like, 243 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:44.039 and he doesn't want you to know he's real. Like, I guess he 244 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:48.039 never gave proof to most people. Wait, wasn't Jesus doing miracles for people? 245 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:53.839 Wasn't that proof that he was God? Oh? Absolutely, but a 246 00:17:53.839 --> 00:18:00.559 lot of people don't believe in Yeah, he gave roof and there's a lot 247 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:04.039 of people that doubt it and say all of that didn't happen or whatever. 248 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:10.720 So it's not like proof that you see each and every day and you lose 249 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:15.200 things for people. Right, there's apparently there is a select group of people 250 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.160 in history that did actually get to see God and know that he was doing 251 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:23.839 stuff. Right. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean it was 252 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:32.839 recorded if you know different apostle, I guess what it isn't many different places, 253 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:37.839 and you know it says in the Bible where about God says he warned 254 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.519 not to change his word, don't have to do it or take away from 255 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:45.839 it. And he said that because the people would and apparently I think it 256 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.720 happened. You know, it doesn't. That doesn't that kind of contradict your 257 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:53.920 idea here that God wants to remain anonymous and have plausible deniability if he's like 258 00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:02.119 directly intervening in the lives of human beings and apparently still continues to today. 259 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:06.519 Well, yeah, when the Bible and all that was wrote in ancient times, 260 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.920 you know, and it lasted up until today, it's a big thing. 261 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:14.480 But in modern times you don't see any of that no more. Like 262 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:21.039 in the Hebrews One, it says God created the universe was his son Jesus. 263 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:26.640 There's no more profits after that. At that point, you know where 264 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.000 he got did away with the prophets that tell people convey for God. He 265 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:37.519 only used Jesus after that in Hebrews one and only. I don't want to 266 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.319 I don't want to turn this into turn this into a sermon, right, 267 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:48.839 I kind of want to get back to this idea that God specifically protects human 268 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:56.319 beings and therefore we owe our success to God. But God was not protecting 269 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.720 human beings when he flooded the planet right and killed everybody. Theoretically, God 270 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:08.240 was not protecting the three hundred and thirty thousand children that were molested in French 271 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:15.720 cathedrals between nineteen fifty and twenty twenty three. He's not protecting. He didn't 272 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.799 protect the people who were murdered in the Holocaust. I mean, do I 273 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:25.359 have to really go down this road where I start throwing out every single atrocity 274 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:30.680 that God chose not to intervene in and point out that this idea that God 275 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:37.440 specifically protects people is really not founded on anything that we can point to. 276 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:45.559 You know, your analysis that God protected people, therefore we survive today beyond 277 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:51.279 predators and the fact that a woman was killed by a black bear three months 278 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.319 ago in upstate New York. I read the article. I mean, that 279 00:20:53.920 --> 00:21:00.559 doesn't fit. So neither does the Holocaust. Neither does the pandemic of child 280 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.680 molestation that happens behind closed doors in cathedrals worldwide. I just don't see how 281 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.960 you make the connection that God is a protector in any way, shape or 282 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.839 form. And I'd really like you to show us some proof or give me 283 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:18.880 something that's going to agree with you. Well, he protected early man, 284 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:22.160 that was a period of time and now things. He gave everybody free will 285 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.880 to do bad things, good things, you know, like that I would 286 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:32.720 like to get back to. And now listen. I randomly found the photograph 287 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:37.480 of nineteen thirty four of my grandfather. He passed away when I was a 288 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:41.559 four month old baby in nineteen fifty eight, and I've pray about him, 289 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:42.920 I've visited his grave, and I think about him a good bit. I'm 290 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.480 sixty five years old, and seven years ago I was on eBay looking at 291 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.599 old cars past the time. I hit the seller's other item list on one 292 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:55.119 of them, and he had a listing had said four old police pictures for 293 00:21:55.160 --> 00:22:00.480 ten dollars, and because my grandpap was a police in Pennsylvania, can front 294 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:07.680 of I clicked it on, and oh, Charles, did we lose you? 295 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:12.799 Are there? Charles? I just lost you there? Okay, well 296 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:18.200 that is unfortunate. Again, I'm hearing Charles making a specific claim God protected 297 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:23.599 early man, and I'm hearing no support for this whatsoever other than well, 298 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:29.079 it would be weird if he didn't, because humans are, you know, 299 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:33.799 protected. It's it's just this kind of question begging scenario, right, It's 300 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.920 it's it's kind of circular. It's like, look, we're seeing this other 301 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:41.319 stuff that the fossil record and other kinds of evidence have shown that there are 302 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.480 such a thing as early human beings, right, and so well, how 303 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.559 can that be? How can we be around? Oh, it must be 304 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.000 God. Right, It's just it's just God filling in the gaps, right, 305 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.599 God of the gaps of whatever scenario you want to pose it. And 306 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:02.079 and yeah, I think that's inconsistent with other ways in which God has failed 307 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:03.680 to protect us. And I also don't know why God is like, Okay, 308 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.720 well, we have to keep the human species alive enough for them to 309 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.920 evolve enough to have free will so that they can go against us, and 310 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.400 then I don't have to protect them anymore. Like it just seems a little 311 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.680 convoluted. I don't really understand. Yeah, And you know, this is 312 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:23.000 the first time that I've ever heard that God doesn't want people to know that 313 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:29.000 he's real. Uh, that is an extraordinary claim, considering God gave us 314 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:33.599 the Bible, gave us his son, you know, uh, go on, 315 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.000 so on, so on and so forth. So I just you know, 316 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:40.640 that's that was a that was a shock to me. I think I 317 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:41.759 think we actually have Charles back of the line. Charles, can you hear 318 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:47.759 us. Oh yeah, sure, Okay, there we go, Charles. 319 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:51.880 Let's uh. I'll be honest, I wasn't quite sure you were going with 320 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.359 the story with your grandfather. But like, I think we still want to 321 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.880 know about this question. Right, you're making a very specific claim. You're 322 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:03.440 saying that God help protect early humanity, and I'm wondering, do you have 323 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.279 anything backing up this claim? Do you have any evidence that we should look 324 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.720 at or any anything that we can reason to make that claim true, because 325 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:17.880 that's not something jimior I believe. Okay, well, my claim is just 326 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.799 basically a thought because based on the amount of wild animals are out there, 327 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:27.599 like a chimpanzee or monkey. You know, they say, did you ever 328 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:33.519 see a monkey kill something? They're very vicious and they can grab their little 329 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.039 baby and run up a tree and hide. I'd like to see a man 330 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.720 run with his baby and his wife from like a lion or something, or 331 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:45.440 have a stick or a stone or even things in hunt and packs, you 332 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.480 know, like wolves and stuff like ancient wolves, even fish if they went 333 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:56.559 into the water or there's so many things back periods. Charles, like, 334 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.359 I don't live in your lions, so like that's not a don't have to 335 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.319 worry about that, Like a lot of humans just didn't live near lions I 336 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:07.680 don't know, or wolves like that wasn't always an issue even when it was 337 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.799 an issue, right, Like, there are ways with dealing with that. 338 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.000 And the fact is humans did die from predators like a lot. It still 339 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.400 happened, but there was enough of us to still survive. Evolution doesn't say, 340 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.839 oh, well, if one species is superior to the other, then 341 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.880 the other one gets completely wiped out. It just means that we are open 342 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.920 to predation. Deer get predator, get predated by predators all the time. 343 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:36.319 It happens every day. Same thing with rabbits. Rabbits are constantly dying to 344 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.039 birds and other things, but they're still around because there are other strategies which 345 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:42.160 keep them alive. In the case of rabbits and deer, right, they're 346 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:48.160 able to repopulate in large numbers. But for human beings, I mean, 347 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.759 there are other defensive mechanisms by which we can survive and obviously still do otherwise, 348 00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:57.319 Again, how do benobos still live if they could be eaten by lions 349 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:02.680 or gorillas or chimp and zis right, like, they're these are not small 350 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:07.359 monkeys. These are large primates that that don't have the same kind of defensive 351 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:14.720 powers that a monkey does. You know, Yeah, I really can't answer, 352 00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:18.599 Like I said, I'm a I'm a I guess a theist, But 353 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:22.960 yeah, I can't answer for why things how they played out and how they 354 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:27.279 happen. It was just my thought that God would have protected man and all 355 00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:30.799 the animals. He probably done a lot of things that maybe we couldn't understand 356 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.799 too. He can't protect all the animals, right, Charles, because other 357 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:40.640 animals have to kill other animals to survive, right, So some of them 358 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:47.160 do get on the chopping block, right, you know, like say, 359 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.359 yeah, he can do things that we couldn't imagine, you know a little 360 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:57.160 when people die at certain aids or babies, you know, or how old 361 00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:03.720 should be somebody be before they can die. Anyway, He takes people for 362 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.880 different reasons that we can never understand, I imagine. But the main thing 363 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.799 is that that's where faith comes in. Where if you have a firm faith 364 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.480 and something bad happens to you and you pray about it, and one day 365 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:21.200 you'll you'll you'll meet him and he'll be pleased with you, Rather than if 366 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:25.920 you would cuss him and swear at him and you're not real and you know, 367 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.720 I hate you or whatever. But yeah, that's my thought. Yeah, 368 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:36.119 yeah, go ahead, Jimmy. If he can't if he can do 369 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:41.720 things that we can't imagine. And that's where faith comes in. Don't you 370 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:47.319 see that not knowing answers to things is what causes some people to come up 371 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:52.440 with this idea of God, Like you don't know how things happen and you 372 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:59.319 can't obtain an explanation, so therefore there must be this all powerful thing that's 373 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.680 happening that people call God. Doesn't that make sense to you? How? 374 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:07.279 Instead of investigating and looking for answers to some of the more trivial questions that 375 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:12.640 are are hard to really explain, that people kind of just settle on this 376 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:17.720 thing that sounds good. I mean, that's what religion sounds like to me. 377 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:22.319 That's what that's what that reflects. It reflects an inability for human kind 378 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:26.559 to answer some of Lifetop's questions. And instead of trying to go get those 379 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.960 answers and say, hey, we don't know, we have to instead say, 380 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.799 well, you know, there's a plan higher than us that we can't 381 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:38.640 possibly understand. I just don't know how if there is a God that created 382 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.880 us, and he wants us to do good and he wants to protect us, 383 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:48.359 why doesn't he also want us to know that he's real and that there 384 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.359 are reasons for some of the actions he takes. Because if if his goal 385 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:56.359 is worship, well, then wouldn't that convince somebody that why worshiping this God 386 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.480 would be a good idea? Because for me, I don't see any good 387 00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:07.000 ideas. Yeah, I'm not sure he wants you to worse at him. 388 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:11.319 He will. Have you ever read the Bible? Have you ever read the 389 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:17.759 Bible? Charles? Charles? Have you ever read the Bible? But yeah, 390 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:22.559 and a good bit of it? This is this is your holy book. 391 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:26.599 I mean, this is what you live your life on. And you've 392 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:29.920 read a good bit of it. And I have to challenge on that. 393 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.240 I bet you, I bet you a good bit of it to you? 394 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.799 Is actually you just listening to somebody else read it to you, or maybe 395 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.880 you picked it up a couple of times and started reading it and then put 396 00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:42.960 it back down. Because that is what Christians do. I mean, that 397 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.480 is what religious people do. They don't even know what it is they believe. 398 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:51.400 I thought I was a Christian for twenty seven years of my life, 399 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:52.640 and then I read the Bible front to back, and I said, what 400 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.000 the hell have I been being taught my entire life? You know, you 401 00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.440 really got to look inside that book. If you think that God doesn't want 402 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.240 you to worship him, it's obvious to me that you don't know the first 403 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:08.720 thing about your own religion. And that is a scary thing because you're dedicating 404 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:11.880 your life to it. And I'm not trying to be rude to you, 405 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.480 you know, I really appreciate that you called it. I just get I 406 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.160 just get very worked up, you know, because I don't like to see 407 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.519 people dedicating their lives, their lives to a lie and not even investigating. 408 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:30.359 Yeah, I'm more of a I think at Calvinist, he I'd know absolutely 409 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.920 God's real. I've had so many miracles happen in my life. People say, 410 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.440 that's like scary in itself. And I never read the Bible. When 411 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:44.160 I come to believe in God. I never went to charts. But the 412 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.680 day when I found that randomly, I said, I pray about my grandfather. 413 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.920 He died when I was four. Myth whole baby and I found a 414 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.680 photo in Kentucky, just that quick, randomly of him in my heart where 415 00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.839 it was at about my grandfather. I was stifty two years old when I 416 00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.359 started thinking about him, and all of a sudden, I said, this 417 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:07.119 is weird. I keep thinking about him constantly. And the reason I knew 418 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.799 that, I asked my older brother, he was ten years older, and 419 00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:15.359 he about a year later, he found that same photo with the Historical Society, 420 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.680 and he said, you don't do that guy was on that motorcycle? 421 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.640 Was my grandfather on a Harley for the newspaper where they bought that brand new 422 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:25.720 in a small town. Okay, no, I don't know, he said 423 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:29.200 her grandfather. I said, man about fell up or well, Charles, 424 00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:30.359 let me ask you this, do you believe that to be a miracle? 425 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.799 Oh? Absolutely absolutely? Idle to ask you why you consider that a miracle? 426 00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.039 I was drawn in. I was a sinner. I mean I was 427 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:48.759 not a really good person at all, and all of a sudden, but 428 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.359 three years ago I took that picture to Staples and the manager said, she 429 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:59.200 went to visit her sister in Ohio last Christmas. Her sister's boyfriend. You 430 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:00.400 know, we have we have time limit for these calls, right, and 431 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.759 I want to make sure that we're on track for this, and we're kind 432 00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.799 of running out of time, so I want to make sure we kind of 433 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:07.160 get on point with this. Right. Well, let's start with this. 434 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.680 Maybe, what in your own words, what do you think a miracle is? 435 00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:17.519 Like, what's a good definition of a miracle? I don't even know, 436 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.680 really, you know, what's statistically impossible? In my case, excuse 437 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:29.799 me in my case to be statistically impossible, improbable? I'm sorry, events 438 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:32.279 happening, Like, what's the chances that you ever have something like that happened? 439 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.440 It's statistically improbable that could ever happen, but it happened to me several 440 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:44.559 times. A lot of things that are just and I know this is I 441 00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:46.640 think that's a good place to start. So there's different people that have different 442 00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:51.319 ideas what a miracle is. Right, Some say statistically impossible, and you 443 00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:54.480 correct yourself. You said statistically improbable. And I think that's great because improbable 444 00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:00.359 isn't the same as impossible, right, Improbable means it's unlikely, but it 445 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:04.559 still could happen. Right, So to summarize what you're talking about here, 446 00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.319 you're saying you found a photograph and correct me if I'm wrong, because again 447 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:13.039 I'm just summarizing here. But you found a photograph that your brother also found 448 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:17.680 from a historical society that was a picture of your grandfather. Is that right, 449 00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:27.359 am? I fairly summarizing that somewhere close to where Grandpap was at in 450 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:31.480 a small town historical society. Now, the guy on eBay was in Kentucky. 451 00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:35.079 He was in Green Up, Kentucky. I called him up and asked 452 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.960 him how he got that. He said, he's a retired police officer down 453 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:42.240 there, and my Grandpap was in his uniform on the harley. But he 454 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.039 said he bought that on eBay about ten years ago. His name is Steve, 455 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:50.480 and he's just selling some things and he had two coffees. He says, 456 00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.039 since that's your grandfather, I'll let you have both of them. So 457 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:58.079 your grandfather was from this small town, Your grandfather was won the small town, 458 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:02.079 and there is pictures from this small town historical society that had pictures of 459 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:09.599 your grandfather. Right, yeah, OK, explain to me why that's improbable. 460 00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.039 That seems actually very likely. Right, If your grandfather is from a 461 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:20.000 small town and they have pictures from a historical society of that town. I 462 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.880 would expect your grandfather, there's a good chance he would show up at it, 463 00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:24.840 right, I'd be weird. Or if he wasn't from that town and 464 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.199 he happened to show up in it, right, I'd actually think that'd be 465 00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.440 more weird. But it's actually more it's more reasonable that he would show up 466 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.880 in it because he's from that town. So, like, can you explain 467 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:42.159 to me where where's the improbable part coming in? Maybe I misunderstanding. My 468 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:47.039 grandfather was a Pennsylvania's small town patrolman. He really wasn't nothing. And the 469 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:52.360 guy in Kentucky had it. And then the girl at Staples, she said 470 00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:55.360 to visit her sister, I don't Ohio last Christmas, and her sister's boyfriend 471 00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:59.360 had that same picture hanging on the wall in her bathroom. When I told 472 00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:01.840 the picture to having blow it up and have a couple of competa. So 473 00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:07.480 somebody else had that same picture that was unrelated and that's where the improbability comes 474 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.960 in, is that right? Yeah? You know, like say, I 475 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.239 was surprised when he told me that. I said, Wow, it's I 476 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.480 don't know how you know, And I'm okay, So yeah, Okay, 477 00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.199 they're in a different state and they have this picture. Okay, now I'm 478 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:22.559 understanding. I had to. I had to kind of put that together a 479 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.800 little bit on my end. So that so that makes sense. That is 480 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:29.920 that is improbable. You're kind of you're in another state and you're seeing this 481 00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:32.599 picture that you happen to to see, but they happen to buy a picture 482 00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:37.719 from a small town historical society. So again, that's that is that is 483 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.679 a bizarre coincidence. But I am having trouble seeing how that could be a 484 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:45.239 miracle in some ways, because again, something could just be improbable. Right 485 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:51.320 when you think about like the lottery for example, Uh, there's the chances 486 00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:53.480 are more than a million to one, right, I mean very very improbable 487 00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:58.039 that you win, But yet somebody wins the lottery, right, somebody does 488 00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:01.079 end up getting it, So I mean it does happen, right, So 489 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:05.679 what if this is just an event that has nothing to do with God whatsoever? 490 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.840 Like, how would we know the difference between God being involved or God 491 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:15.239 not being involved? Hey, let me give you another example. Or my 492 00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:19.079 sister passed away about certain No, no, no, I want to know 493 00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:22.159 what this example? Right, how do we know the difference between God being 494 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:27.960 involved and God not being involved. You just know it. I mean, 495 00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:30.280 I was fifty two years old, I never thought anything about my grandfather. 496 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.079 My mother was the only child. She never spoke of him. I never 497 00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.079 thought about him. But that's not true, child, because you said you 498 00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:42.559 started thinking about him when you were two years old, and you thought about 499 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.280 him a lot throughout your life. So I mean, what do you mean 500 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.360 you didn't talk about him? What do you mean you didn't thin about him 501 00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:52.559 to fifty two when you said that, you you've been thinking about him you 502 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.239 whole life. Look, I'm gonna posit one last thing because we are kind 503 00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:59.519 of we are, we are kind of moved going on, and before I 504 00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:00.480 kick it back over to Dan, I just want to say, you know, 505 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:04.719 you're talking about a small town in Kentucky and a small town in western 506 00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:07.280 Pennsylvania and small town in Ohio. And you know, back in the nineteen 507 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:13.119 thirties, small towns in the Midwest were actually kind of popular and they shared 508 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.039 similar cultures. So for your grandfather to be part of a historical society, 509 00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:22.599 that would have been kind of a segue in from town to town, you 510 00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:28.400 know, where they shared different practices different different cultural aspects. There's societies operated 511 00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:34.320 the same way, and so they might share maybe some similar artwork, photography, 512 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.320 things like that. While it might be improbable, it's certainly not impossible. 513 00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:40.639 And I think it's probably all the more likely if we consider, uh, 514 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:44.039 you know, we consider the timeframe that you're talking about in the way 515 00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.400 that this small town America was set up, especially in that area where there's 516 00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:52.480 really not even a whole lot of development now. So that's that's what I 517 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:54.519 want to posit. I want to thank you for taking the time to talk 518 00:37:54.519 --> 00:38:00.280 to us. And man, I've heard you say that you were like a 519 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.239 bad person most of your life. I just I hate hearing that. You 520 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:05.239 know, you're you're a human being. You know, we make mistakes. 521 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:07.599 I want you to forgive your younger self, you know, and kind of 522 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.079 just move on and I enjoy, enjoy what time we have left, you 523 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:15.559 know. Cool. Well, I'm okay, I'm gonna say good boy to 524 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:20.679 you and pass it on back over to Den. Okay, yeah, real 525 00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:23.400 quick, Charles again, just so we can like, let's end it on 526 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:27.679 this because we do have to move on to some other callers. But well, 527 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:30.760 how do we know that this is an event that God influenced versus random 528 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:37.480 chance. Can we tell the difference? Even I can, Like I say, 529 00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:39.199 you don't have time to hear all the things that's happened in my life 530 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:45.039 after I prayed about them. Randomly met a girl that my sister saved her 531 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:49.199 life forty years ago, and I prayed about her one night, and my 532 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:51.960 buddy says, I woke up this morning, I thought about your little sister, 533 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.440 Tracy, he says. She's saying the girl's life at the state park 534 00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:59.960 up in the mountains from drown And I said, wow, I prayed about 535 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.679 last night. And like a month later, I met the girl randomly. 536 00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.199 She said that was forty years I was telling her about this story. She 537 00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:08.320 saw my God, She sa, I think that was me. I said, 538 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:12.679 really, she said, yeah, that was forty years ago. Then 539 00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.800 you go, you know, it sounds like other events in your life have 540 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:19.920 also. It sounds like a culmination of events. It sounds like it's not 541 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.599 just this one event. It sounds like, in the context with other events 542 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:30.440 is what qualifies this event as a miracle? Right? Yeah? You know, 543 00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:35.320 like saying so many you don't have time. But if we don't have 544 00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:37.079 time, unfortunately. But but I want to leave you with this. Okay, 545 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:42.079 if you didn't have the context of those other events, right, if 546 00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:45.199 you just had this event to look at, and you're not able to draw 547 00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:49.320 upon previous events, you're just looking at this one, would it be reasonable 548 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:52.280 for you to conclude that God was involved? That's all I want to leave 549 00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.760 you with. And because that's that's really all the time I have for you 550 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:58.880 today, Charles. But I am gonna let you go. I'm gonna you 551 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:01.039 know, we got all the people I talked to. Thank you again sincerely 552 00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:06.480 for calling into the show, and you know, we just we just enjoy 553 00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.679 the conversation, So thanks again for that. Any other thoughts on that calling 554 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:15.800 Jimmy, No, you know, it seems like he really wants to believe 555 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.280 Edie spam. He's pulling from, pulling from everywhere that he can, but 556 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:23.000 it's just not lining up. So you know, that's basically my take. 557 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:28.559 I think Jimmy, sorry not Jimmy. I think charles Christianity was kind of 558 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:31.760 similar to my Christianity, which is just you do have a sincere desire to 559 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:35.679 believe, you have a sincere desire to be a good person, and the 560 00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:39.719 paradigm you have for that is Christianity, right, and it's hard to imagine 561 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:43.679 life outside of that paradigm. I think that was what it was for me 562 00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:45.920 and for Jimmy. It's it's hard for us to kind of be like, 563 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.039 well, okay, what about the possibility of this other thing? It seems, 564 00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.199 I keep saying Jimmy. For Charles, it's it's like, how do 565 00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:59.000 we you know, how can we evaluate different points of view? How can 566 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.880 we know that one might be more true than another? I think that's a 567 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.199 critical skill in sort of evaluating these kinds of claims. But again, we 568 00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.159 got to move on. We went while on that call, and we want 569 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:13.599 to kind of speed it up for some other calls. Before we take out 570 00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.719 the calls, though, we want to show you, guys, how you 571 00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:21.119 can support the ACA with a very unique opportunity that won't be around forever. 572 00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.280 So check out this video we're going to play for you right now. Have 573 00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:28.039 you ever wanted to make a permanent impact on the atheist community of Austin. 574 00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:31.519 Help support our Space for Free Thought by buying a custom engraved brick to be 575 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:37.079 laid on the building grounds to help raise funds for improvements our building has stood 576 00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:40.559 as a beacon for years bringing people together, but three years of emptiness due 577 00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:45.920 to the pandemic have taken a toll, leaving it in disrepair. Help us 578 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:50.440 restore this hub of connection and support by buying a brick. Moses had his 579 00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.960 stone tablets, but we're doing our own version. Join our brick fundraiser and 580 00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:59.880 let your engraved messages stand the test of time minus commandments. Visit tiny dot 581 00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:05.880 cc forward slash aca bricks for more information. Awesome, awesome, and we've 582 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:07.159 got some of the polats, but we'll get him on later in the show. 583 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:10.079 I think because I think we should move on with another call. What 584 00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.280 do you think, Jamie? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, 585 00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:19.000 let's talk to some more folks about man. Do you want to pick the 586 00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:22.239 next one here? Because we got a couple of different ones. I do 587 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.960 you know we had somebody respond to the chat pole Jack. Jack does not 588 00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:30.480 believe that circumcision is genital mutilation. Okay, Yeah, let's talk about that. 589 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:32.679 Yeah, we have a champol For those of you who are listening in 590 00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:37.679 the audio version of the show. During the live show, we have a 591 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:40.480 champ pole and sometimes we have collegers respond to that chap hol. Today's was 592 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.079 is circumcision general mutilation? Jack does not think so. Jack, You're live 593 00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:51.400 on talk even Hi, guys, thanks for having me. Yeah, I 594 00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.719 saw the poll, and I don't believe that it should be considered to be 595 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.960 genital mutilation. Okay, let's let's hear your case. What why do you 596 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:07.480 not think so? I think when we compare male circumcision with with female general 597 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:14.039 mutilation, and in cases with female general mutilation, it's typically like the removal 598 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:20.519 of the entire citerus, it's more akin to like being a unich is, 599 00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:29.679 if that makes sense, whereas circumcision is more like topical. As far as 600 00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:35.199 like it, I'm certain sized myself, so like I I don't know, 601 00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:37.920 I like my penis, you know what I mean? Like, I feel 602 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:43.800 like it's aesthetically pleasing and also yeah, you know, I want to I 603 00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:47.760 want to posit something. If if I have all five fingers on my left 604 00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:52.159 hand, Okay, if I accidentally chopped off the tip of my index finger, 605 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:55.920 I would still like the remaining three quarters of the finger. I wouldn't 606 00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:00.840 want to get rid of it, you know. So, I think even 607 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:07.159 though you still have what's left of your genitalia doesn't mean that it was okay 608 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.920 for somebody to make a decision to remove part of it before you had the 609 00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:15.239 opportunity to kind of make that decision for yourself to be okay with it. 610 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:19.280 Let's say you weren't okay with it, Yeah, and what right you don't 611 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:24.840 really have an option to put it back on, right, Okay? So 612 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:32.320 if okay circumstance and also has some other benefits like reduce risk of getting HIV 613 00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:37.679 or acquire pencal herbies. Okay, Well, even if that was true, 614 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.440 I have one partner that I'm with right now that I hope I can stay 615 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.599 with with my life, So I'm not really worried about HIV in that aspect 616 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:49.280 of it. But let's let's let's I mean, there are other non benefits 617 00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:52.159 to it, right, Like you mentioned, it's a topical procedure, but 618 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:59.599 it also reduces sensation. Right, you don't have the same sensitivity there that 619 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.239 the people do. And the fact is, I mean, the biggest problem 620 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:07.639 with it I have personally, uh that I haven't heard address is the choice 621 00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.880 that's involved. Right, I don't get a choice in having a circumcision procedure 622 00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:16.039 done on me. Neither does someone who has female genital mutilation that occurs, 623 00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:19.360 right, you mentioned yes, it is, and I agree with you. 624 00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:22.119 I don't think it's quite the same. I do think it's it's it's more 625 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.199 severe in most cases. Right, But that doesn't mean that circumcision is okay 626 00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:31.199 just because one is more severe than the other. Right. No, But 627 00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:36.880 what you mentioned that because you have the ability to consent to be done to 628 00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:42.920 you, that it's wrong. Well, like vaccines, we give children vaccines. 629 00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:45.480 They can't consent to that. I guess parents make choose what's bets for 630 00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:50.280 them on medicine. Right, Yes, we can argue that circumcision is not 631 00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:55.000 medicine is general mutilation. I don't. I don't see it that way. 632 00:45:55.159 --> 00:46:00.639 Yes, Why what benefits do I have by not taking the vaccine versus taking 633 00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:09.000 the vaccine? What is being taken away from me? What? What's being 634 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:12.960 taken away? I mean? I agree? Right, you know there is 635 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:15.920 there is some other considerations you can make. You can make it. You 636 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:19.679 can make a consideration with a vaccine. If I don't take the vaccine, 637 00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:22.000 I'm open to risks, right, I'm open to risk of infection. And 638 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:25.960 if I do take the vaccine, there is a very miniscule chance of vaccine 639 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:31.840 harm or I get the but I'm almost always take the benefit of getting the 640 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:37.519 vaccine when I do get the vaccine if I don't receive any harms that come 641 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:42.719 from vaccine injury, which again is typically extremely rare, if at all ever 642 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:46.559 happens. It depends on the vaccine. Am I actually losing anything, right? 643 00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:52.039 I would argue that you really aren't, whereas you're losing something every single 644 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.920 time with circumcision. So I feel like it's hard to make that analogy, 645 00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.519 right, I don't. I don't think you lose something in the same I 646 00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:07.800 don't see it that way. I don't feel like I'm disfigured or or I'm 647 00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:13.679 mutilated because I was circumcised as an instant. But you did lose something, 648 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:20.679 right, Like, objectively, you did lose something, right, I mean 649 00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:27.119 not really like it's it's a tiny bit of skin, but you did lose 650 00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:30.559 something. Is I'm not asking whether it's importance is high, just that you 651 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.119 did lose something, which is a tiny bit of skin, and that tiny 652 00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:39.400 bit of skin can be the difference between how you experience sexual pleasure for the 653 00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:43.400 rest of your life. You know, I would I would argue that has 654 00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:47.360 large consequences. I've had sex and it's been fine, Like I had great 655 00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:53.480 times, right and I and I'm happy for you with that, And I 656 00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:57.760 wouldn't want to take that away from you, right And I think that's the 657 00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:00.880 difference. If if you have a desire later on in life to get circumcised 658 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:05.360 for your own benefits, wouldn't you rather have that choice than have somebody else 659 00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:12.920 make that choice when you couldn't If there's more medical compocations when you have circumcision 660 00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:17.440 later in life, sure, if there is a time, is there not 661 00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:22.920 medical complications in circumcision earlier in life? Can you not botch a circumcision? 662 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.639 I mean there's there's there's gonna be complications either way. Can you not get 663 00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:31.360 a vaccine and and and get the wrong kind of vaccine? And again, 664 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:36.199 vaccine injury does occur. I fully admit to that. I have a relative. 665 00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.719 I have a relative in the fifties was given the polio vaccine and it 666 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:44.320 was like the wrong kind of polio vaccine. Now like the rest like, 667 00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:49.039 well, she's really old now, but she has like really skinny arms and 668 00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.519 like you know, muscular problems because of it. You know what I mean, 669 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:54.840 so that happens too, I'm not I don't know. I'm I can't 670 00:48:54.840 --> 00:49:01.559 evaluate whether vaccine injuries. Again, vaccine injury can reported, but it doesn't 671 00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:05.960 necessarily mean that's the causal link. Right, So when we have vaccine injury 672 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.960 reports that are reported to the local bodies and stuff, anybody can write that 673 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:14.360 in. There's no you don't have to have medical evidence supporting that you even 674 00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:17.199 got a vaccine in the first place. You can register vaccine complaints. So 675 00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:21.800 it's hard to evaluate vaccine injury, and there's a reason why we don't have 676 00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.639 a lot of information as to its reliability. There are some people, and 677 00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:29.039 I don't think this is you, Jack, but just for information's sake for 678 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:31.519 those listening, there's some people that do think we have a higher than average 679 00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:37.239 risk for vaccine injury because of the reports that come in. But there's no 680 00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:40.360 qualifications that you need to report for injury for most states, right, you 681 00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:44.480 could just kind of say one. So I can't evaluate case by case what 682 00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:47.679 happens with a vaccine. But what I can say is if you are making 683 00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:52.559 this point that look, we vaccinate people and there's harms, that should make 684 00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:54.480 you on my side that should make you on my side by saying, yeah, 685 00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:58.320 maybe we shouldn't circumcise people. Then, right, if we're going that 686 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:01.079 route of well, every single bodies should have the right to make decisions for 687 00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:07.159 their own body, period, then circumcision as a child would violate that. 688 00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:14.840 And I want to add something too, because because while while we're talking about 689 00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:22.039 vaccines and circumcision as a means of bodily autonomy, right, uh, I 690 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.360 want to get back to the example of mutilation, like it's you're cutting up 691 00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:30.559 and disfiguring the body purposely, right, And I can relate that to our 692 00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:37.519 conversation on vaccines too. So essentially, the reason why religious people circumcise their 693 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:43.280 their male children is to have some kind of covenant agreement respect to God. 694 00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:47.599 Right, But what are we really gaining from that? I mean, is 695 00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:54.960 that actually happening versus the vaccine polio small parks excuse me, small pox in 696 00:50:55.079 --> 00:51:00.400 large part almost one hundred percent wiped out by vaccines, And so I don't 697 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:04.960 think that there's a fair comparison When I want to consider what's better off from 698 00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:07.599 my son, Right, should I give him the smallpox and polio vaccines or 699 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:10.599 should I cut off the tip of his penis or the flap of skin around 700 00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:15.320 his penis. Are those equal? Absolutely not, They're not equal. I 701 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:19.800 am saving my son's life potentially in one aspect, and in the other, 702 00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.960 I am taking a choice away from him that he can later make if he 703 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:27.360 grows up later and decides. Look, I'm a believer and I want to 704 00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:30.400 have this covenant with God in the way that the Hebrews said that we should. 705 00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:36.119 Then that is by definition or or by his right the way that he 706 00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:39.280 should do it. But I should not cut up his body and disfigure it 707 00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:44.440 without his permission. And people want to claim, you know, special pleading. 708 00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:46.719 Well, this isn't disfiguring. This is God. You know what. 709 00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:51.760 God has never shown up and done anything good for me right let alone. 710 00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:53.000 I mean, if God wants to have a covenant with me, he should 711 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:55.559 give me my skin back that he took from me in the first place. 712 00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:02.880 I respect you guys a lot. I'm also an atheist. I don't believe 713 00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:08.239 that people should get circumcised for religious reasons. I'm saying that if the studies 714 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:13.679 are correct, and it does reduce risk of getting HIV, and it does 715 00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:17.400 reduce the risk of getting HPV, and it does reduce the risk of getting 716 00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:24.320 herpies, and it does help with cleaniness, and it can prevent somemosis. 717 00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:30.840 And if it's aesthetically pleasing or whatever, I don't I don't necessarily see a 718 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:34.880 problem with it. And yes, you're right, somebody can get circumcised later 719 00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:38.079 on when they're eighteen plus. Sure, I mean, but there are more 720 00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:44.519 complications the older you are. If there is a good time to get circumcised, 721 00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:46.119 it is the younger you are. And I really don't want to go 722 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:51.239 down the rabbit hole of vaccines because it seems ikey to me. I don't 723 00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:57.119 want to be like labeled the vaccine weirdo or something. But well, you 724 00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:00.880 mentioned it, you mentioned it. We just want to blige that's all, 725 00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:06.440 you know. I totally understand that. Jet. Yeah, but like, 726 00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:09.519 if the studies are accurate, right that, Let's say that you're right there 727 00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:15.800 are health benefits to circumcision risk. You you're less likely for HIV, you're 728 00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.199 less likely for herpes, you're less likely for these things. There are some 729 00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:21.760 objections to that, but for the sake of argument, let's say that this 730 00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:24.280 is true. There are also other methods by which you can prevent those things, 731 00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:30.480 namely condoms, right, namely you know, other types of antibiotics and 732 00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:32.960 medication that you can take. I mean, there are alternatives besides making a 733 00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:39.159 life quite frankly, life altering choice. Right, And while it may be 734 00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:44.239 esthetically pleasing to some, it's not going to that's that's that's an American sentiment. 735 00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:45.519 I think for the most part, there are other countries that do not 736 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:50.920 have practices of circumcision that do think the way that a lot of Americans look 737 00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:53.360 are weird, right that I think that's a cultural thing. At the end 738 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:58.280 of the day, I'm going to want to lean on the side of people 739 00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:01.760 being able to make their own choices with themselves, as opposed to having that 740 00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:05.679 done for them and then having to wonder later in life, well, what 741 00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:08.519 if things were different? Uh? And why why couldn't I done? You 742 00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:13.519 know, I have had things differently if I was born somewhere else. Because 743 00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:16.199 for the vast majority of people that are not circumcised, they're not getting kirpies 744 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:21.280 and they're not getting HIV, and they're not experiencing all these potential ailments. 745 00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:24.559 They are living you know, presumably normal sex lines. I don't know, 746 00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:28.679 but uh, yeah, I don't know. That's that's my take on it. 747 00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:30.639 Jack. I'm not sure if I could elaborate more than that. What 748 00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:34.440 do you think, Jimmy, Yeah, I think I agree with you there, 749 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.119 and I really appreciate Jack's call. And you know, Jack, I 750 00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.559 appreciate you saying that you respect us A lot that goes without saying. You 751 00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:45.039 know, there's no ill will here, so we might get a little passionate 752 00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:49.360 as something, especially me, but you know, I'm not not disparaging you 753 00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:52.400 in any way. So I really appreciate the contribution and the call, and 754 00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:55.360 you know, keep following us, keep keep watching, and keep calling in. 755 00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:58.719 Yeah, we do have to let you do because we got to talk 756 00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:01.920 to some other folks. But it was a good spirited debate and hopefully we've 757 00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:05.519 made our points. Clare, I think I think Jack is. I think 758 00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:10.800 Jack is making the most reasonable case you can personally for circumcision. I do. 759 00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:14.880 I just don't think it's good The case is good enough. And that's 760 00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:19.199 nothing on Jack. That's just I just don't think the cases is demonstrable, 761 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:21.920 and that is it complicated? Is it little? It's sticky? It is. 762 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:24.719 I think it's stickier than most people give it credit for it, but 763 00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:29.599 I still air on the side of, Look, this is something that by 764 00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:34.920 and large is going to be something that you're not going to regret. I 765 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:40.039 don't think I think the regret for getting circumcised is more so than the regret 766 00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:44.000 of not getting circumcised. I'm not sure if I have ever heard of the 767 00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:46.840 case of anybody saying, man, I got I was at risk to this 768 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:51.920 thing, and if only I was circumcised, that could have prevented it. 769 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:53.599 I just don't think people think that way. I think it's more of a 770 00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:58.119 case of, man, I had this procedure done with me without my consent, 771 00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:00.199 and now I'm never going to know what it is like having it. 772 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:04.920 I think that's the more common response, right, what do you think? 773 00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:09.199 Yeah? And you know what, it sets a dangerous precedent because we really 774 00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:15.079 need to redefine bodily autonomy in general. You know. So if we have, 775 00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:19.960 if we have this precedent taking place that parents are allowed to remove parts 776 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:22.559 of their children's bodies or alter them in any way. Uh, you know 777 00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:27.599 that, where do we draw the line? You know what? At what 778 00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:30.960 point do we start giving people the right to make decisions for their own bodies? 779 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:36.679 And yeah, I think circumcision is a very worthwhile conversation to have amid 780 00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:40.000 the the other, uh, you know, swath of conversations we're having about 781 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:45.320 bodily autonomy. Yeah, and and and that's and that's like talking about vaccines, 782 00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.960 right. That is like anti vactors will make this point very clearly, 783 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:51.880 which they say, well, like you are violating the bodily autonomy of children, 784 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:53.960 right, And it's like, okay, well it gets very messy there, 785 00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:59.400 right, because you aren't making children sometimes without their consent. Sometimes they 786 00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:01.559 have us and sometimes they're okay with it, but that it's not the same 787 00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:06.119 thing as consent. Right. There's different language that's been developed around that. 788 00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:09.239 But that's neither here nor there. I think I think we've made our case 789 00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:12.480 as much as we could on that, and I think we should try to 790 00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:14.679 move on because we got a lot of people that want to talk to us 791 00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:17.800 now jury there. They're they're trumping at the bit to get some of this 792 00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:22.119 action that's happening here. So before we move on, I want to point 793 00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:28.480 out that every single month we've got limited addition T shirts. And it's October 794 00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:31.599 now, which means we have a new T shirt for this month. We 795 00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:36.239 got no words on this next one, just a graphic on there, which 796 00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:38.320 is pretty cool if you want to look at it. It's it's you know, 797 00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:42.039 it's got a little talk Keithan on a phone on there. I think 798 00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:44.239 it's pretty cool. If you want to look at it yourself. You're listening, 799 00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:47.000 you can visit ti cc slash merch Aca to get them in of course 800 00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:52.440 all the other ACA swag that comes not just for talk Ethan, but all 801 00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:57.320 the shows are on there as well, so check that out. And if 802 00:57:57.320 --> 00:58:00.320 you happen to be in the Austin area. October twenty nine, twenty twenty 803 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:06.519 three, consider joining us live for the burly broadcast of Talking Then and the 804 00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:10.880 Eightheist Experienced. Doors open at noon and we hope to see you there. 805 00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:15.719 Not sure if who's gonna be hosting that day, but it should be pretty 806 00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:19.199 good, especially if I'm there then you know it's really good. And last 807 00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:21.400 week, before we move on, I just want to remind you guys to 808 00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:25.079 support us by liking and subscribing the video to the channel and enabling notifications. 809 00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:29.199 We want to hear a comment below, of course on your favorite caller, 810 00:58:29.320 --> 00:58:31.280 and you know our prompt this week. We want to hear what do you 811 00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:35.320 think of that caption or what do you think of that video video? What 812 00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:37.480 do you think of that picture? And give us your best caption for it. 813 00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:44.280 Okay, so with that done, let's talk to some more peeps. 814 00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:46.760 We got a bunch of people who want to talk to us. You want 815 00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:50.320 to pick another one? Actually you don't. Actually, I think I have 816 00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.280 an interesting one. I have Alex from Sweden. Looks interesting to me. 817 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:58.039 Alex and Alex from Sweden. Let's go to Alex from Sweden. Alex, 818 00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:04.239 you are live on talk even. What's up up guys? Thank you for 819 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:08.320 taking me on. Yeah, it's going good. I just I was thinking 820 00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:13.440 last week of calling in. I just had a question. I'm a I'm 821 00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:19.559 atheist. I try to truth, but my thing is I want to find 822 00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:24.559 the truth of things, and I tried to I thought for the most most 823 00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:30.039 I don't want to go into politics. But most of the time I find 824 00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:36.840 myself agreeing to a lot of things on what we would call sterotypically sterotypically the 825 00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:42.679 right side. But that then they start talking in religion and I'm like, 826 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:45.599 well that's where you loose me and I to go on to the left. 827 00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:52.679 So I'm all over the place. But my question really retains too well when 828 00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:57.159 I talk to people, and I tried to if I were to, what 829 00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:04.960 is it called, like strong man my opponents, I would say that if 830 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:12.559 there's no claim for reason to be used used as to justify God, like 831 01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:16.639 I have some I have some Christian friends of me and they they never said 832 01:00:16.679 --> 01:00:21.079 that, Okay, Or you could say one of my friends he says, 833 01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:25.760 it's it's not that, it's not that reason isn't good and you can't use 834 01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:32.159 reason to get somewhere. It's that you have to forego reason and just trust 835 01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:37.039 blindly. Kind of I don't know if you're familiar with Churkey Guard, but 836 01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:42.559 it kind of reminds me a way of what he believes in that you have 837 01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:47.159 to take the leap of faith. And what I'm I know that because what 838 01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:51.000 you could say to that response is that you could say, well, we 839 01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:55.079 know that reason has brought us so much more. And I wouldn't deny that. 840 01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:00.400 As I said, I'm an atheist. But yeah, what I'm what 841 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:07.920 I'm kind of getting is that there's not really anything. It's everything is really 842 01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:13.760 just bush right. It's like, yeah, reason and reason is really good, 843 01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:16.840 but as a mean of as a mean of faith, if all I 844 01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:22.960 had to do was believe and believe beyond the reasonable, I could I could 845 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:29.679 see that kind of be an argument that okay, reason I where somebody says 846 01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:32.800 to me, well, I foregoing reason, I believe just to believe. 847 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:37.039 And yeah, if you have some words, I'm kind of rambling right here. 848 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:43.480 I know it's it's it's an important point. So so why are you 849 01:01:43.519 --> 01:01:47.039 asking, maybe why is faith such a virtue? Is that kind of your 850 01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:54.119 question? Why do people value faith so much? I actually think it's why 851 01:01:54.159 --> 01:02:00.599 why do you well? And also why if you're coming from the Christian perspective, 852 01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:08.440 what is what is reason such a bookshe I kind of explained in the 853 01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:12.599 sense, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a historical reason for this. 854 01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:19.360 And so when we talk about the history of philosophy, particular Western philosophy, 855 01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:23.679 we have this thing called the Enlightenment, right, and the Enlightenment is in 856 01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:30.000 part this rediscovery of old texts, particularly Greek texts, right where there's they're 857 01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:36.440 kind of looking at this Greek thought and there is this sort of rebranding of 858 01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:40.000 Christianity within Greek thought, particularly with Socrates and Aristotle. Right, So like 859 01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:45.599 there's this kind of like respect towards these Greek thinkers and through their contributions, 860 01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:50.440 but they want to look at it through the Christian lens. And so a 861 01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:55.880 lot of Christian theology is and this is also partially pre what we consider enlignment, 862 01:02:55.880 --> 01:03:00.519 but particularly post Enlightenment. There's a lot of this happening, right, 863 01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:04.719 and so you kind of do run into these sticky problems. This is what 864 01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:07.719 saw on Kirkgard, as you mentioned, was talking about. And Kirkgard is 865 01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:10.480 coming late into this conversation. He's like, well, we're having this sort 866 01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:16.039 of rationalist sort of uprising here. But in response, there's this period of 867 01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:20.679 romanticism, right, And Kirkgard is in the thicket of this, and he 868 01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:24.480 says, well, you have to have this leap of faith because that's all 869 01:03:24.559 --> 01:03:29.840 you can do, really, And one I think this is this is a 870 01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:32.559 very like, very very very truncated version of what Kirkgard is saying. But 871 01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:37.280 Kirkgard is like talking about really his Christian values, in his Christian sense of 872 01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:42.880 morality, but he's also talking about his sense of like life purpose and meaning 873 01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:45.719 because he finds it very difficult to have a sense of life, purpose and 874 01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:52.559 meaning outside of outside of belief in God. And so now that we live 875 01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:54.400 in the twenty first century and we look back at that, that may seem 876 01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:59.400 strange, but you know, like it's more of the world was Christian, 877 01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:00.920 right at least more of the general surroundings. So it's like, how do 878 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:06.440 we even operate and live and understand a world without Christianity being like backing in 879 01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:10.800 all of this? And now we realize we can do that. One we 880 01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:14.679 have the eighthiest community aust that kind of demonstrates that every time a host is 881 01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:16.440 on board. But it's like, okay, we have to figure out and 882 01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:21.320 develop life principles that that can can operate in a secular way. And that's 883 01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:27.239 why a lot of twentieth century philosophy is looking at ethics in a secular world, 884 01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:29.360 right, like how do you even develop that? How do you live 885 01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:33.239 that? And what life meaning and purpose is? Like Kirkgard was kind of 886 01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:35.960 saying, well, I think the leap of faith is the best way to 887 01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:40.159 do it because it's honest, and yeah, it's honest, but like it 888 01:04:40.239 --> 01:04:44.039 can lead you to unreliable conclusions. Kirkgard saying that because he's a Christian. 889 01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:47.280 He's not saying that because he's a scientologist, you know, or a Muslim. 890 01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:49.480 Right, we would say, well, that's silly. Why would you 891 01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:53.239 have a leap of faith to be, you know, a scientologist. We 892 01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:56.639 would say, oh, that's harmful, right, that's obviously unjust. But 893 01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:59.159 we look at that and see, okay, well that can also happen with 894 01:04:59.239 --> 01:05:00.800 Christianity. And wait, now I'm the one that's rambling here, Alex, 895 01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:06.320 go ahead, Yeah, so I kind of I understand what you say, 896 01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:13.039 but yeah, I don't know. I'm my friends always say you're thinking that, 897 01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:15.039 you're thinking so much. You're like, you're going so much into it. 898 01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:20.039 But I feel like, I what I really want the answer to which 899 01:05:20.119 --> 01:05:25.039 I don't think you can give me either. But it's like, so picture 900 01:05:25.159 --> 01:05:30.360 is, we're we're sitting in in nothingness if and I know this show or 901 01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:33.400 not even not this show, but the API experience is saying, like, 902 01:05:33.639 --> 01:05:38.199 what even is nothingness? But so if we're sitting in an alchemists and you 903 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:43.840 introduce something, you introduce reason, Uh, you can use reason a lot, 904 01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:46.880 but the same to you, you can say that you can use faith 905 01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:50.119 a lot, at least for the people that believe in faith. And my 906 01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:58.360 problem with it that when when people kind of argue that it's that it's wrong 907 01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:01.159 to believe in a god or it's stupid to believe in the goad, I 908 01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:08.679 think it's kind of I should really have thought over this before it cool in 909 01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:15.119 because it's it's like a master I'm I'm trying to figure out. Okay, 910 01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:18.800 let me put it like this. I it's kind let me respond to that. 911 01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:25.079 Let me respond to that, because yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 912 01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:30.119 yeah. So so those are kind of buzzwords that that catch my attention, 913 01:06:30.159 --> 01:06:34.079 so I figured it would be a good time to jump in. But being 914 01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:40.079 wrong being is it wrong or is it stupid to believe in a god? 915 01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:46.119 I would say that that is probably an unfair characterization to people who are actually 916 01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:49.280 religious. Now, I know, Dan, I've heard you say in the 917 01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:54.639 past that you're not really sure about this term of indoctrination, and you know 918 01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:57.480 it could be used either way. Yeah, indoctrination could be used for a 919 01:06:57.480 --> 01:07:00.079 good thing. People who join the military, for example, like myself, 920 01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:05.559 uh, volunteer to kind of be a point that out there. Yeah yeah, 921 01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:09.920 yeah, yeah, yeah. But but but I think that a lot 922 01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:15.719 of a lot we can't really put blame on people for believing. Usually I 923 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:20.719 would say it's because people want they want answers, right, and they want 924 01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:24.360 to believe something good. They want to be a part of something good. 925 01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:28.920 They want to have meaning to their life beyond what they know, right, 926 01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:31.000 Uh, And there's nothing wrong with that. I would I would love to 927 01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:35.800 know that everything we do, these menial things on this little blue dot in 928 01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:40.400 the middle of nothingness, uh, you know, kind of just well not 929 01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:43.960 really nothingness, but you know, on this little blue planet, you know, 930 01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:45.920 everything that we're doing, I'd like to think that there is some kind 931 01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:49.679 of importance to it all. And in fact, I don't really know that 932 01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:56.519 there is, you know it, unless you consider we want to make make 933 01:07:56.559 --> 01:08:00.239 sure that we all have the best experience we can, because otherwise is what 934 01:08:00.280 --> 01:08:02.000 are we even doing? You know? And you know, a lot of 935 01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:04.719 people, a lot of people, I think, genuinely want that, and 936 01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:09.639 they genuinely think that they can get that from religion because while they were taught 937 01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:13.039 that that's how you have to do it. But then again, they were 938 01:08:13.119 --> 01:08:17.560 also you know, very maliciously uh exposed to that as well. And so 939 01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:21.600 throughout, you know, throughout history, we know we know of that being 940 01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:29.279 the case. Go ahead, Alex, I'm sorry. I didn't. I'm 941 01:08:29.319 --> 01:08:35.319 just n necessarily necessarily adding adjectives here didn't mean stupid. I don't think that 942 01:08:35.399 --> 01:08:41.720 you're saying that about I'm saying that that is a popular characterization. No, 943 01:08:41.720 --> 01:08:45.119 no, no, I don't. I yeah, yeah, yeah, so 944 01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:47.960 I'm I just what was gonna say, though, I think maybe it makes 945 01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:54.319 more most sense. It's that when when I was questioning, say in the 946 01:08:54.399 --> 01:09:00.079 sense that I was literally questioning my friends about Christianity. The one thing that 947 01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:08.039 stuck with me was that when I said it's not reasonable to believe in what 948 01:09:08.119 --> 01:09:11.720 you believe, and he's like, and he told me he never claimed reason, 949 01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:15.000 which I thought was interesting it it was kind of the most reasonable thing 950 01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:20.239 he said was that I believe, I believe. I'm with going. I 951 01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:26.039 don't know if that's the right word of like he's he's choosing to toss away, 952 01:09:27.079 --> 01:09:30.199 to toss away. It's kind of in Indiana Jones when he takes this 953 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.640 step, like literally a leap of faith. And there's something I don't know, 954 01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:38.760 there's something intriguing about that, and I'm trying to not not that I'm 955 01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:42.960 I'm talking about Oh, it's it's something I now I believe in God all 956 01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.359 of a sudden, but there's something, there's something that kind of draws me 957 01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:49.000 towards that. And I don't know what the end goal is because that kind 958 01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:54.800 of made me see that well, reason for all what it's done, it's 959 01:09:54.800 --> 01:10:00.600 it's a label within its league. And I feel like when he said that, 960 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:04.680 it kind of it showed me at least that it wouldn't it. Maybe 961 01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:10.680 it's not right to take reason into something that hasn't it isn't meant to have 962 01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:14.560 reason in it, if you get what I mean. Yes, I absolutely 963 01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:16.079 understand what you mean, Alex. And it's very interesting that you bring up 964 01:10:16.159 --> 01:10:18.560 Kirker Guard, because I'm not sure how familiar you are with his work, 965 01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:23.439 But he is exactly positing this. He is saying, what if reason actually 966 01:10:23.479 --> 01:10:28.159 doesn't matter? I'd regularly believes right, what if who cares about reason? 967 01:10:28.239 --> 01:10:30.840 What if? What if this is fulfilling to me in something that is beyond 968 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:35.439 reason? Which is an interesting idea and an interesting question. And this is 969 01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:40.119 why I sympathize with kirker Gard. In fact, I really enjoyed the label 970 01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:43.079 of I was sort of a Christian mystic for a while, you know, 971 01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:46.359 christ of a Christian existentialists like Kirker guard before it completely deconstructed because I thought, 972 01:10:46.359 --> 01:10:48.800 Oh, this is how I solve my faith. Right, this is 973 01:10:48.800 --> 01:10:55.119 how I figured this out. I can still take solace in the traditions and 974 01:10:55.199 --> 01:11:00.279 the virtues that were taught to me through Christianity while also not having to have 975 01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:03.760 to be answerable to all the unreasonable claims that Christianity makes, which is quite 976 01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:08.479 many. Right, here's the problem that I've found with this and why I 977 01:11:08.479 --> 01:11:14.399 haven't stuck with this label. If I have a faith that still relies and 978 01:11:14.479 --> 01:11:21.359 still draws from institutions that cause objective harm to everyone around me, I am 979 01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:27.600 still complicit in that. Now. I'm not saying individual believers right are out 980 01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:30.920 committing atrocities on a daily basis because they have believes. It's not what I'm 981 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:35.479 saying. What I'm saying is if I'm thinking that Christian tradition, particularly Christian 982 01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:42.720 institutions, are not only reasonable in some capacity, not even reasonable, but 983 01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:49.479 reliable or even just worth our endeavors or worth our investment, that I am 984 01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:54.960 upholding things that have caused harm to people in the past. Right, I 985 01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:58.279 mean we don't have to go through all the lists of how Christianity has harmed 986 01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:02.159 people, right, not just bigotry, but even in just my capacity for 987 01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:06.520 intellectual curiosity. I don't want to pick on Charles too much, right, 988 01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:12.840 but Charles, our earlier caller, was very much interested in developing and maintaining 989 01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:16.319 his relationship with God. But when it comes to this interesting scientific question of 990 01:12:16.640 --> 01:12:20.760 how did humans actually you know, figure this stuff out for themselves, how 991 01:12:20.760 --> 01:12:25.640 do they defend themselves? He was very comfortable with living it up to God 992 01:12:26.119 --> 01:12:30.800 and not having any sort of scientific inquiry. And I think that is I 993 01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:33.720 think that is something that I like to prevent. I think that's that's sad 994 01:12:34.439 --> 01:12:38.560 in a way. There's so much inquiry we can have by using reason and 995 01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:45.640 by using right. Yeah, and unfortunately our faith denies us of that capacity. 996 01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:48.279 It kind of says this asn't worth investigation, which I think it is. 997 01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:57.079 So anyway, Thoughts Alex, I hid one. Yeah, no completely 998 01:12:57.119 --> 01:13:00.880 what you're saying. It's it's so funny you took up. I'm not read 999 01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:05.159 chacter as much or CHESTI guard as we say as much as I would, 1000 01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:09.880 but I would like to. But I've listened to a lot of lectures about 1001 01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:13.199 him, and that's kind of the medium I take to take in the most 1002 01:13:14.199 --> 01:13:17.119 and it kind of you you hit it on the nailing, And yeah, 1003 01:13:17.199 --> 01:13:23.199 it sounds like he was. He was talking about exactly what what I wanted 1004 01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:26.399 answer, and so maybe I should read more on that. I had one 1005 01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:30.600 last question, do you guys work right at the park? And as I 1006 01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:39.840 find myself going between, yeah, tried to be a contrarian. I love 1007 01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:46.479 Christopher Hitchens and how he was as a character, how he could he had 1008 01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:53.039 so many things like he he was for the invasion of Iraq and it was 1009 01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:56.720 like it was on the left side, left side, and he hated the 1010 01:13:58.960 --> 01:14:01.720 Yeah, tyrants. It's just so much character there, and it showed that, 1011 01:14:01.880 --> 01:14:05.239 hey, you don't have to be this life. Yes, in a 1012 01:14:05.319 --> 01:14:11.880 specific zone too, you can have beliefs across lines. But so my question 1013 01:14:12.039 --> 01:14:15.319 was none of us are cooking, and that's why I lost a good guys, 1014 01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:20.640 go ahead, Alex. Yeah, sorry, my question my question to 1015 01:14:20.680 --> 01:14:30.000 you guys, because I looked at you guys, see to me, this 1016 01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:40.880 atheists Alex is still there. Oh no, Alex, I think we lost. 1017 01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:45.319 Yeah, Unfortunately, we do have to let you go because we don't 1018 01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:48.159 really have a whole lot of time left with that call, so I know 1019 01:14:48.199 --> 01:14:51.159 you had a final question. Maybe if you want to try to call in 1020 01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:54.920 a different day, because we're probably gonna talk to some other folks right now, 1021 01:14:55.640 --> 01:14:59.600 but we do appreciate your conversation. I thought it was pretty interesting and 1022 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.520 eyes to a lot of particular study of interest of mine, which was Kirker 1023 01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:09.439 Guard, one of my favorite philosophers to talk about. So I like nerding 1024 01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:12.640 out about that. Jimmy, do you have any final thoughts you wanted to 1025 01:15:12.640 --> 01:15:15.640 share on that? Uh No, I don't think so. It was a 1026 01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:19.039 good conversation. Happy to sit back and observe. Yeah, yeah, it 1027 01:15:19.119 --> 01:15:21.600 was really good. Real quickly, we have to read some super chats. 1028 01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:26.760 We have one from Ben nine Lives, who gives four ninety nine and says, 1029 01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:30.279 thanks Jimmy and Dan for another great episode. Thank you Ben for donating. 1030 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:34.000 That is very kind of you. Another one from this is oh God, 1031 01:15:34.039 --> 01:15:38.840 I can't read a fan of the Q tube family. Fan of q 1032 01:15:38.960 --> 01:15:41.279 tube family. I think it's what that says, gave five dollars instead. 1033 01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:45.600 If God created men and he wanted us to cut, why did he give 1034 01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:50.520 us a foreskin? In the first place. And there's the reason for that 1035 01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:58.520 is because at least the Jewish defense is that it's originally like the circumcision was 1036 01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:00.840 just a Jewish thing, right, so it's a mark of your covenant with 1037 01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:04.520 God. And also that you're a people separated from God, because let's go 1038 01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:10.000 into this idea that God is for the Jewish people like he wasn't for other 1039 01:16:10.159 --> 01:16:15.800 nations. God was a very local god in that sense, Yahweh was when 1040 01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:17.680 you look at it from that Old Testamay perspective. And this is actually why 1041 01:16:17.760 --> 01:16:24.680 you see one of the early controversies in the New Testament between Paul and Peter 1042 01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:29.079 and these other early church follows are what to do about the uncircumcised? Do 1043 01:16:29.199 --> 01:16:31.520 they do you have to get circumcised as a Christian because it kind of, 1044 01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:38.279 you know, it points to this Jewish identity. So it's it's an interesting 1045 01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:41.479 thing to see the early history of that. Last week, we got one 1046 01:16:41.479 --> 01:16:46.239 more super chats from Van Halen backing Isolated and live tracks. You gave four 1047 01:16:46.680 --> 01:16:50.960 sorry nine ninety nine said thanks for a great show. I mean atheists because 1048 01:16:50.960 --> 01:16:56.079 of the ACA. Are you familiar with the whole higher power God slash God 1049 01:16:56.119 --> 01:16:59.920 concept within Alcoholics Anonymous. What are your general thoughts on it? Thank you. 1050 01:17:00.079 --> 01:17:02.239 Yes, We've talked about this on a number of occasions. I've talked 1051 01:17:02.279 --> 01:17:04.840 about this a lot on Truth Wanted, and I've talked about it with folks 1052 01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:10.439 who have been in Alcoholics Anonymous and also who have a more experts, particularly 1053 01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:15.239 Daryl Ray, who has evaluated Alcoholics Anonymous at a level that I can't because 1054 01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:20.039 like he has degrees more relevant in that area. So check out that episode 1055 01:17:20.039 --> 01:17:24.600 with me and Daryl Ray if you want a more in depth episode on Alcoholics 1056 01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:27.920 Anonymous. I don't know, Jimmy, if you've how much you've been able 1057 01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:30.840 to talk about it in your syeah. Well, I've heard. I've spoken 1058 01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:34.319 with people who have been through there, and they, from what I understand 1059 01:17:34.399 --> 01:17:39.079 is they don't try to push the Christian God or any other God on you 1060 01:17:39.159 --> 01:17:43.680 per se, but they actually take God and turn it into an acronym for 1061 01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:48.800 good, orderly direction. So that is something that I know people personally who 1062 01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:54.319 have kind of experienced that in Alcoholics Anonymous and tried to use that as a 1063 01:17:54.359 --> 01:17:59.359 way forward and using the higher power concept to get through what they're getting through. 1064 01:18:00.079 --> 01:18:02.119 Yeah. Yeah, so there's there's there's that conception of and there's also 1065 01:18:02.239 --> 01:18:08.600 a lot of reasons as to why alcoholics Anonymous has the God thing. But 1066 01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:12.039 but more of that is explored in other episodes. Jimmy it is we are 1067 01:18:12.079 --> 01:18:15.319 past the hours, so we need to read our top five patrons. Would 1068 01:18:15.319 --> 01:18:19.600 you like to read them? Yeah, I'd love to read them. Dingle 1069 01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:25.479 Berry Jackson number one, number two, Oops All Singularity three, Devo, 1070 01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:30.159 Valjean Collevi, Helvetti coming in at four and then left in the leaves at 1071 01:18:30.199 --> 01:18:36.680 five. Honorable mention Mark Laguscar. So thank you guys for continuing to be 1072 01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:41.239 patrons. A lot of repeat names. They're happy to see you back again. 1073 01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:45.119 Yes, yes, thank you everybody who donates, and thank you to 1074 01:18:45.239 --> 01:18:49.079 our top five patrons. We already talked about obviously super chats as we read 1075 01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:51.079 them as one of the ways you can support the show. But I'll give 1076 01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:54.680 one last way you can support the show before we move on, and that's 1077 01:18:54.680 --> 01:18:57.960 becoming a Channel member. If you click the joint button below the video, 1078 01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:01.039 you will get custom chance emoji's and you will help perpetuate the mission of Talking 1079 01:19:01.159 --> 01:19:03.279 Then the Athiest Community of Boston. You can do the first of little. 1080 01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:09.840 It's ninety nine cents per month or a dollar ninety nine per month as well. 1081 01:19:10.880 --> 01:19:15.039 There's different levels to that she can do. So consider joining us on 1082 01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:19.600 that platform. If you're watching this on YouTube, so one of the ways 1083 01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:25.560 you can talk to us. We are going to talk to some more people. 1084 01:19:28.119 --> 01:19:30.640 Let's see. Gosh, there's a lot of things that we could talk 1085 01:19:30.760 --> 01:19:33.439 about. Jimmy, what do you think you want to pick this next caller? 1086 01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:39.199 I do. I want to talk to Billy just because he's again in 1087 01:19:39.279 --> 01:19:42.640 line with our chat poll and took the time to call in and talk about 1088 01:19:42.680 --> 01:19:47.199 what we asked them to call in about. So Billy from Texas he him, 1089 01:19:47.279 --> 01:19:49.560 let's see what Let's see what he's got to say. The CDC says 1090 01:19:49.560 --> 01:19:54.560 that benefits of circumcisions outweigh the risks. Yeah, let's talk about it. 1091 01:19:55.119 --> 01:20:00.319 You, Billy, you're alive on talk Heathan, what's up? Billy? 1092 01:20:00.359 --> 01:20:05.600 If you're there, please talk to us. We gotta get him back in 1093 01:20:06.159 --> 01:20:10.439 the Q here. We having a little bit of issues today, but we're 1094 01:20:10.479 --> 01:20:12.680 working on Billy. I think you should be able to talk to us. 1095 01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:15.159 Now, can you hear us? What's going on? Hey? There we 1096 01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:19.279 go. Hey, Billy, what's up. Hey? I had my son's 1097 01:20:19.359 --> 01:20:26.239 circumcised because for no other reason than I was circumcised. But then I was 1098 01:20:26.279 --> 01:20:30.399 having a discussion with somebody online and they called me a monster. They said 1099 01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:34.720 that they said that I portraed and portraed my son, and and after that, 1100 01:20:34.840 --> 01:20:39.359 I you know that that affected me a lot, and so I did 1101 01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:45.800 some research. I talked to doctors. I just I went to the CBC. 1102 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:47.520 Like like you said, the CBC, I went to their website. 1103 01:20:47.680 --> 01:20:54.399 The CDC themselves say that the bidding fits out way to risk about the tortra 1104 01:20:54.520 --> 01:20:59.079 part. I talked to a doctor and he said that there's peer reviewed scientific 1105 01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:03.439 literature that about babies and how they're they're in shock for between four and twenty 1106 01:21:03.479 --> 01:21:09.199 four hours after they're born, So that's that's the best. The best time 1107 01:21:09.239 --> 01:21:12.079 to do it is is immediately after they're born, because they're in shock, 1108 01:21:12.159 --> 01:21:17.840 they don't they don't feel anything. And then the sensitivity thing. I talked 1109 01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:23.079 to a doctor and he said, imagine if you're petting a cat and then 1110 01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:27.199 you had the tip of your fingers surgically removed, and then a year later, 1111 01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:30.159 whenever it's all healed, you pet the same cat is it? Like? 1112 01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:33.640 How different is it? Uh? He said, that's the that would 1113 01:21:33.680 --> 01:21:41.119 be the that would be you know what what it would be like? Uh, 1114 01:21:41.520 --> 01:21:45.680 in terms of like the sensation part and then or is the opetic thing 1115 01:21:46.319 --> 01:21:50.640 there are there are studies that that show that up to ninety percent of women 1116 01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:59.439 prefer circumcised prenises. So yeah, well, you know what that's that's also 1117 01:21:59.560 --> 01:22:02.039 a reflection of the times we live in, right, that's changing, I 1118 01:22:02.079 --> 01:22:08.199 think probably, And you know, I don't think that women are going out 1119 01:22:08.239 --> 01:22:12.760 and dating men based on whether or not they're circumcised, or or you know, 1120 01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:16.039 getting married based on whether or not or choosing choosing sex partners based on 1121 01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:21.439 that. I you know that that could all that could flop. I mean, 1122 01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:25.560 and who and who are the people answering these questions. I'd like to 1123 01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:29.640 do my own poll and see because I've heard I've heard different, but something 1124 01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:34.680 that's not as strong as I wanted I wanted to make. But Billy, 1125 01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:40.239 what what caught my attention was the very first thing that you said was I 1126 01:22:40.279 --> 01:22:44.960 had my son's circumcised for no other reason than because I was circumcised. I 1127 01:22:44.960 --> 01:22:48.520 mean, what justification do you have for taking that decision away from your son. 1128 01:22:48.760 --> 01:22:54.600 And and why is the benefit What was the benefit of you being circumcised 1129 01:22:55.840 --> 01:22:59.520 to the point that you had to pass that down? You know, I 1130 01:22:59.520 --> 01:23:00.880 mean, were you really? Was life so great for you because you were 1131 01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:06.600 circumcised? And on the on top of that, Yeah, well, you 1132 01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:12.399 know what I understand. I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to trying to, 1133 01:23:12.760 --> 01:23:15.640 you know, give you a beating here. Uh. You know, 1134 01:23:15.720 --> 01:23:17.680 I don't think somebody should have said that you tortured your son. I'm sure 1135 01:23:17.720 --> 01:23:23.600 that you uh love your son and anything that you have to do with your 1136 01:23:23.600 --> 01:23:26.640 son it's in its best interests. You know, there's no there's no beef 1137 01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:30.000 there. But what I'm saying is, well, but you were right, 1138 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:32.039 You're you were right though, But you were right. I did it for 1139 01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:35.279 no other reason than than because it was doesn't mean And that's why that's why 1140 01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:39.760 it's screwed it right so much, is because did I make the Did I 1141 01:23:39.800 --> 01:23:43.079 make the wrong decision? Am I a butcher for doing this to my son? 1142 01:23:44.239 --> 01:23:45.720 Well we're all guilty of that in some way. I mean, we 1143 01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:49.199 have we have these customs passed down to us, so we think that we're 1144 01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:55.359 doing something because we you know, we think it's right. Uh, And 1145 01:23:55.439 --> 01:23:58.760 what we really need to do is kind of ask ourselves, well, why 1146 01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:00.840 why did people do this before me? And why was it done to me? 1147 01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:05.159 And do I need to do it? You know? The spanking children 1148 01:24:05.279 --> 01:24:09.520 is another one, Like I I would never spank my kids, but I 1149 01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:12.279 was spanked, you know, And I'm not just gonna do it for no 1150 01:24:12.319 --> 01:24:15.159 reason without investigating. But you know, the other thing I want to say 1151 01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:19.479 is, you know, I you're giving us a lot of piecemeal arguments and 1152 01:24:19.560 --> 01:24:26.399 opinions really not even arguments from different people. One doctor said the sensitivity is 1153 01:24:26.439 --> 01:24:30.439 not that big a deal. Another one said that there are studies. You 1154 01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:33.199 know, he's talking about the CDC. Well, he said the CDC. 1155 01:24:33.479 --> 01:24:39.159 He said the CDC, but then gave opinions of people who were not in 1156 01:24:39.199 --> 01:24:43.960 the CDC. I didn't hear anything that came from the CDC. And you 1157 01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:46.399 know, I don't even know that the CDC would present an argument that would 1158 01:24:46.479 --> 01:24:50.439 that would make me say, you know, cutting cutting a child's genitalia is 1159 01:24:50.439 --> 01:24:59.039 not mutilation. Well let's not. It's it's on their wi. The the 1160 01:24:59.079 --> 01:25:03.239 CDC and the American Association of Pediatrics. Uh, well, the American Association 1161 01:25:03.239 --> 01:25:06.359 of Pediatrics that have a task force for circumcision a couple of years ago and 1162 01:25:06.399 --> 01:25:11.760 they reported their findings. And the CDC also has information on their website. 1163 01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:15.760 Again, their goal is to give people information in regarding to make their own 1164 01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:18.760 decision. They're not going to you know, you could. I guess if 1165 01:25:18.840 --> 01:25:26.119 the CDC's language specifically says it's it recommends circumcision over not, that's news to 1166 01:25:26.159 --> 01:25:28.279 me. That doesn't mean it's not there. I just I haven't heard that 1167 01:25:28.279 --> 01:25:31.920 that could be true. But I do know that they have information regarding Sorry, 1168 01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:36.119 Bailey, go ahead, I'm sorry. I didn't mean they don't say. 1169 01:25:36.159 --> 01:25:40.199 They don't say that, they don't recommend it all. The only thing 1170 01:25:40.239 --> 01:25:44.800 they say, uh, and it's a quote, is that the benefits outweigh 1171 01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:51.199 the risks. That's the quote from their website. Yeah, and that could. 1172 01:25:51.319 --> 01:25:57.079 That could very well mean that the risks aren't all that grave, but 1173 01:25:57.359 --> 01:26:00.640 it doesn't necessarily mean that there are all of these benefits associated with it. 1174 01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:05.479 You know, I think when people kind of come into this discussion about what, 1175 01:26:05.720 --> 01:26:12.239 you know, benefit versus risk, they're they're considering risks to be you 1176 01:26:12.279 --> 01:26:17.039 know, something that is kind of monumental, dangerous even Well that might not 1177 01:26:17.079 --> 01:26:20.439 be the case, you know. Uh, And so I would just say 1178 01:26:20.479 --> 01:26:27.399 that while we are in this position where we have a child that is in 1179 01:26:27.399 --> 01:26:33.119 our care and we can either change their body without their consent or not, 1180 01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:38.720 I would say that the doing doing so, uh, not only is it 1181 01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:42.560 mutilation, but it's just kind of the wrong decision, especially when the roots 1182 01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:45.159 of that decision are, Hey, you know God, it's because of God 1183 01:26:45.199 --> 01:26:49.399 and everything like that. So that's kind of where we're at. And you 1184 01:26:49.439 --> 01:26:51.479 know, Billy, it looks like it's just you and me right now. 1185 01:26:51.520 --> 01:26:58.359 So what do you have to say about that? Well, I don't I 1186 01:26:58.399 --> 01:27:03.560 didn't take any type of religious I'm not a religious person at all, So 1187 01:27:03.600 --> 01:27:10.239 I didn't take religion into account in any way whenever it came to that decision. 1188 01:27:11.000 --> 01:27:15.479 So, uh, you know that somebody did, you know what I 1189 01:27:15.479 --> 01:27:18.880 mean, like some somebody in your history did. Yeah. But but I'm 1190 01:27:18.880 --> 01:27:23.520 just saying your father was probably circumcised in his father right, and it was 1191 01:27:23.560 --> 01:27:27.600 probably a result of religion that's just kind of passed down over and over again 1192 01:27:27.840 --> 01:27:31.640 and eventually it lands on us and we don't even know why or you know, 1193 01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:36.000 if the decision made was the right one. We just know that decision 1194 01:27:36.039 --> 01:27:40.760 was made. Yeah, right, and it's a Jewish thing, it's isn't 1195 01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:44.000 It's a Jewish thing, right, But but I'm not Jewish, so I 1196 01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:48.760 mean it did right, right? Yeah, Well it happened when Christianity adopted 1197 01:27:50.640 --> 01:27:58.359 christian Christianity adopted Judaism and adopted their customs, yeah, or dominic culture through 1198 01:27:58.800 --> 01:28:02.239 colonialism and you know other means, right, means that also our practices become 1199 01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:08.039 standard in other non Western countries, right, including that of circumcision, because 1200 01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:13.119 it's part of the Western medical practice. Right. So that's that's how that 1201 01:28:13.159 --> 01:28:16.000 happened. But but I'm just kind of wondering how was it. I wonder 1202 01:28:16.079 --> 01:28:23.600 how it was influenced by Jewish culture for for it to be because I mean 1203 01:28:23.640 --> 01:28:28.880 if if if it wasn't, I mean, if it hadn't been kind of 1204 01:28:28.880 --> 01:28:31.840 adopted, then we wouldn't be even having this discussion at all. It might 1205 01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:35.399 have sided out the Pruss the procedure might have died out a long time ago. 1206 01:28:35.439 --> 01:28:42.439 And I alluded to this before the call here, but yeah, there 1207 01:28:42.520 --> 01:28:45.840 is uh, you know, if you look at the new Testament. And 1208 01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:47.159 if you look at the letters, and I understand that, you know, 1209 01:28:47.239 --> 01:28:49.600 the Bible is not the most interesting book in the world for a lot of 1210 01:28:49.600 --> 01:28:54.560 people, but there are very serious discussions that are being made. And this 1211 01:28:54.800 --> 01:28:59.920 made after the Bible was finalized in its current form, by the way, 1212 01:29:00.359 --> 01:29:03.880 in early church leadership, but like very serious discussions about circumcision. A lot 1213 01:29:03.880 --> 01:29:08.079 of you'd be surprised how much the New Testament talks about circumcision, particularly with 1214 01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:12.199 Paul and Peter and the other folks, because they identify this as a Jewish 1215 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:17.159 practice and they wonder should we accept those as Christians who aren't circumcised. And 1216 01:29:17.399 --> 01:29:20.680 Paul's whole point is like, look, they're not. We are all the 1217 01:29:20.720 --> 01:29:25.640 same and saved in Christ, So circumcision doesn't matter, and you can kind 1218 01:29:25.640 --> 01:29:29.520 of do this and be okay with it. But it was still kind of 1219 01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:30.359 like, well, we might as well get it done for a lot of 1220 01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:34.439 people, right, And so like it's it's still adopted to the wider Christian 1221 01:29:34.479 --> 01:29:38.359 culture. It's sort of like, well, you know, you can either 1222 01:29:38.359 --> 01:29:39.920 do it or not do it, you might as well do it. I 1223 01:29:39.920 --> 01:29:44.199 think that's kind of the mindset. So yeah, and it's like and it's 1224 01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:46.560 like and it's like, let's check your opinis at the door. Yeah, 1225 01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:50.239 well, at the time, for early Christianity, you're getting adult converts. 1226 01:29:50.399 --> 01:29:54.159 Right. For rust of us, it just happened when we're kids. But 1227 01:29:54.239 --> 01:29:57.199 for them, it's like, Okay, this is where these are adults that 1228 01:29:57.199 --> 01:30:00.000 are coming in, So you have to get this done later on in life. 1229 01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:01.119 So what do you do with that? Right, it's a little bit 1230 01:30:01.159 --> 01:30:05.279 more serious, not more serious, but you know you can't you can fight 1231 01:30:05.319 --> 01:30:08.520 back, That's what I'm saying. You can't fight back when you're a baby. 1232 01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:11.239 So that's yeah. I'll tell you one thing. If I, well, 1233 01:30:11.279 --> 01:30:14.279 I did have the option, if I was never circumcised, and then 1234 01:30:14.720 --> 01:30:17.119 today I had the option of being circumcised, I would not do it. 1235 01:30:17.359 --> 01:30:20.880 I wouldn't do period. I think that's the conclusion most people would have. 1236 01:30:21.720 --> 01:30:26.680 But I that's my speculation. I actually don't know. Maybe there's studies on 1237 01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:31.159 that. But there's a study in the Bible called the Genesis where where Abraham 1238 01:30:31.800 --> 01:30:39.520 Abraham circumcised like two hundred of his servants as adults. So yeah, there's 1239 01:30:39.399 --> 01:30:42.640 that being an adult doesn't always get you out of it. Yeah, that's 1240 01:30:42.680 --> 01:30:46.239 also true. It's also true Billy any more thoughts. Yeah, well, 1241 01:30:46.279 --> 01:30:49.520 he's young for me to ask now. He's too young for me to ask 1242 01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:54.880 now, but like later later in life. I mean, I'll ask him 1243 01:30:54.880 --> 01:30:58.960 because I said that I wouldn't get circumcised if if I had the option today 1244 01:30:59.039 --> 01:31:03.399 to do it? But am I a monster for doing that to my son? 1245 01:31:03.560 --> 01:31:08.000 And would I? And I'll ask him whenever he gets older, like 1246 01:31:08.439 --> 01:31:11.279 did you? Are you okay with skeep doing this to you? Like, 1247 01:31:11.279 --> 01:31:13.840 like, how do you feel about it? Think? And I don't think 1248 01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:16.079 a monster, Billy is capable of self reflection. I don't think a monster 1249 01:31:16.159 --> 01:31:19.560 is capable of asking the questions that you're asking yourself right now. I'm not 1250 01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:24.119 saying what you did was right or wrong. What I'm saying is the fact 1251 01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:27.880 that you're able to consider that now means that you've at least probably grown and 1252 01:31:28.199 --> 01:31:30.680 try to understand what's best care. The thing is, most people aren't, 1253 01:31:30.800 --> 01:31:34.840 Like I don't think most people make good parents. A lot of people just 1254 01:31:34.880 --> 01:31:39.279 don't. And like the fact that you're asking what's best interest for your son 1255 01:31:39.439 --> 01:31:42.720 is means you're you must be on the right track somewhere. That's that's the 1256 01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:45.560 most I can give give you today, at least if that'll help you sleep 1257 01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:48.079 at night. But Billy, I don't think you're a monster. If that 1258 01:31:48.159 --> 01:31:51.359 helps, it will, that will. Thank you so much, man, 1259 01:31:51.359 --> 01:31:56.000 And I appreciate you. I appreciate I appreciate the input. Guy. Thank 1260 01:31:56.039 --> 01:32:00.520 you, Yes, thank you, Yeah, yeah, a lot of Listen. 1261 01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:02.920 There's a reason why we put the questions in the poll. You know. 1262 01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:05.439 I was skeptical at first when we are like, oh, we're gonna 1263 01:32:05.439 --> 01:32:08.520 do these poll questions, I was like, yeah, sure. We get 1264 01:32:08.560 --> 01:32:12.880 a lot of responses when we do that, and I'm happy for it because 1265 01:32:12.920 --> 01:32:15.800 it does keep the discussion going to an issue that, again I think is 1266 01:32:15.800 --> 01:32:20.319 more nuanced than most people give it credit for the circumcision thing, although maybe 1267 01:32:20.359 --> 01:32:24.239 weird for most people wondering why are we talking about this for so long? 1268 01:32:24.479 --> 01:32:28.079 Because because it's a big deal. I don't know it's a thing. But 1269 01:32:28.199 --> 01:32:32.560 anyway, we are. We are close to the end of the show. 1270 01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:36.680 I don't know if the crew has given us the green light to go over. 1271 01:32:36.840 --> 01:32:42.000 If not, that is fine. But while I am okay, so 1272 01:32:42.079 --> 01:32:44.159 yeah, we actually do have the green lights, so we're gonna take one 1273 01:32:44.159 --> 01:32:45.680 more call. I think, Yeah, that's cool with you. Let's do 1274 01:32:45.720 --> 01:32:47.760 it. We go. Yeah, when we're in the queue here, we 1275 01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:53.920 got Teddy Driver calling in from California. Teddy, you are live on Talk 1276 01:32:53.960 --> 01:33:00.800 Heathen. What's up? Oh, good morning boys, good morning or whatever 1277 01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:11.279 afternoon. Excuse me. I wanted to share a different experience of being an 1278 01:33:11.359 --> 01:33:18.159 atheist because it started when I was a young child. I didn't grow up 1279 01:33:18.199 --> 01:33:25.399 in a religious household, although I was baptized and circumtised, but we never 1280 01:33:25.439 --> 01:33:30.720 went to church, didn't pray, none of that. And on top of 1281 01:33:30.760 --> 01:33:35.119 that, I spent a lot of time with my three great aunts when my 1282 01:33:35.199 --> 01:33:41.399 dad and mom wanted to go somewhere, and one of them was really into 1283 01:33:41.479 --> 01:33:50.159 nature, and one of them was really into gardening and just got me to 1284 01:33:50.199 --> 01:33:54.960 open my eyes to the natural world. They had a neighbor next door with 1285 01:33:55.000 --> 01:33:58.800 a wood shop, and I learned all about woodworking and stuff. And here 1286 01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:03.159 I was, you know, like six years old. It wasn't until I 1287 01:34:03.239 --> 01:34:10.880 was eleven that my dad decided I needed to go to church. So I 1288 01:34:10.880 --> 01:34:15.760 went up the street to the Lutheran Church, and after two Sundays, I 1289 01:34:15.880 --> 01:34:20.079 said to myself, these are nothing but sapery tales and I never went back 1290 01:34:20.119 --> 01:34:28.319 again, and my parents didn't do anything about That wasn't until I was sixteen 1291 01:34:28.439 --> 01:34:33.920 and my dad and mom were fighting every weekend and a Catholic friend of my 1292 01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:40.840 dad got in to go to church and see up priests and blah blah blah, 1293 01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:46.239 and he came home and announced it and I'll never forget these words. 1294 01:34:46.880 --> 01:34:55.279 We're all going to get into this together. And I got sent to Catechism 1295 01:34:55.319 --> 01:35:00.199 twice a week with a wet behind the years priest from cont Corn, Ireland, 1296 01:35:01.840 --> 01:35:08.359 and we went around and round every single time, and finally it dawned 1297 01:35:08.399 --> 01:35:12.680 on me, there's gonna be trouble at home if I don't accept this, 1298 01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:18.479 And so I went ahead. I got baptized, confirmed, I took comfort 1299 01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:24.239 to communion, blah blah blah. It wasn't until after I was married that 1300 01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:30.840 I just walked away from it. And uh, that's interesting. I can't 1301 01:35:33.640 --> 01:35:38.119 I'm not able to tell you was your wife? Really? Was your wife? 1302 01:35:38.720 --> 01:35:45.439 Was your wife Christian? She was raised in a in a Catholic home? 1303 01:35:46.560 --> 01:35:50.079 Not How did that go over when you when you walked away from your 1304 01:35:50.079 --> 01:35:57.520 religion? How did that affect your marriage? Oh? I had done that 1305 01:35:57.680 --> 01:36:01.960 before I got married. Oh okay, really, I mean and I should 1306 01:36:01.960 --> 01:36:14.760 say, no, we got married. Yeah, my first wife was I 1307 01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:21.279 get a Christian and but we had to get married in the Catholic Church and 1308 01:36:25.439 --> 01:36:29.159 that was over in it. So, Teddy, You're your story sounds a 1309 01:36:29.159 --> 01:36:32.920 lot like mine, because like I was about nine years old when I started 1310 01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:36.920 realizing, like, man, I don't believe any of this stuff. This 1311 01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:43.760 sounds like complete, complete garbage. But it was kind of a process. 1312 01:36:43.800 --> 01:36:46.199 I mean, I was nine when I started questioning it and twenty seven when 1313 01:36:46.199 --> 01:36:50.720 I made my full uh my my full converse conversion, if you will, 1314 01:36:50.760 --> 01:36:54.720 to to being an atheist. And so it was a long time, a 1315 01:36:54.720 --> 01:36:57.319 lot of questions, a lot of back and forth, a lot of influence 1316 01:36:57.359 --> 01:37:00.119 for my parents. And you know, it's funny because I grew up Lutheran 1317 01:37:00.439 --> 01:37:04.760 and we weren't really all that religious either except for that one hour a week, 1318 01:37:06.359 --> 01:37:09.720 that one hour a week when I was in Sunday school. And I 1319 01:37:09.760 --> 01:37:13.239 want you to know that I went around with the with the teachers too. 1320 01:37:13.279 --> 01:37:15.960 I was kicked out a religion class twice. Twice. I was kicked out. 1321 01:37:16.000 --> 01:37:19.159 I want you to know that I'm very proud of that number, and 1322 01:37:19.279 --> 01:37:23.359 uh, you know, I hope nobody's beaten my record at that school. 1323 01:37:23.880 --> 01:37:27.760 But you know, it's funny. Maybe maybe it's because we were you and 1324 01:37:27.800 --> 01:37:30.199 I are both Lutheran or former Lutheran, that we had a similar experience. 1325 01:37:30.279 --> 01:37:34.039 But you know, I felt like at home I was told I needed to 1326 01:37:34.079 --> 01:37:38.479 be Christian, and I was told that we were Christians, but I really 1327 01:37:38.479 --> 01:37:41.640 didn't see that playing out in the way that we lived our lives. You 1328 01:37:41.640 --> 01:37:45.800 know. I remember this one time in church where our pastor was like berating 1329 01:37:45.840 --> 01:37:51.399 the audience, uh for for watching Seinfeld, and I thought that was so 1330 01:37:51.439 --> 01:37:56.439 odd because my parents always watch Seinfeld and they still watched it. And I 1331 01:37:56.439 --> 01:37:58.720 said, well, then this must not be that important. You know, 1332 01:37:58.920 --> 01:38:00.119 pastor doesn't like it, but I'm and Dad are cool with it. So 1333 01:38:00.640 --> 01:38:03.520 yeah, maybe what the pastor has to say, uh, you know, 1334 01:38:03.600 --> 01:38:08.439 doesn't doesn't really hold any weight. And that's important too, because you know, 1335 01:38:08.479 --> 01:38:12.000 our actions are are obvious to kids, you know, kids are watching 1336 01:38:12.119 --> 01:38:15.439 us, and so I just thought it was interesting the parallel between between the 1337 01:38:15.520 --> 01:38:19.000 lie that you had to live and the lie that I had to and kind 1338 01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:24.039 of in the end, we were both able to you know shed those shrouds. 1339 01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:27.000 Jimmy, I gotta talk to you about this. Hold one, Wait 1340 01:38:27.039 --> 01:38:28.560 a minute, Wait a minute. Yeah, what was it? What was 1341 01:38:28.600 --> 01:38:31.319 the problem with Seinfeld? I don't know. I have no idea. I 1342 01:38:31.319 --> 01:38:35.199 mean they did a lot of things in there. I mean there was there 1343 01:38:35.279 --> 01:38:40.479 was one where Jerry stole the ladies marble rye and ran down the street. 1344 01:38:40.560 --> 01:38:44.680 Unlike Christmas side that wasn't talking about masturbation the whole time. I guess it 1345 01:38:44.720 --> 01:38:46.560 is a little respect, you know. Yeah, yeah, but like he 1346 01:38:46.640 --> 01:38:50.039 just has issues with like Jewish people. Maybe that and that's the that's the 1347 01:38:51.239 --> 01:38:58.680 I'm just I'm just speking. Well, I'm sorry to steal. Go ahead, 1348 01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:01.600 Teddy. When I when I was very young, when I first started 1349 01:39:01.680 --> 01:39:09.399 realizing, I didn't even know the word atheist. It's never been spoken. 1350 01:39:11.159 --> 01:39:15.680 You didn't hear it anywhere. And even though I had given up my religion 1351 01:39:16.640 --> 01:39:25.119 or given up religion false religion, I just never know knew the word until 1352 01:39:26.079 --> 01:39:31.960 maybe ten or twelve years ago I got to hear somebody turned me on to 1353 01:39:32.039 --> 01:39:39.479 Christopher Higgins, and that did it. I saw him. I've seen every 1354 01:39:39.560 --> 01:39:44.479 single video of him, and I've been watching you guys and Matt on the 1355 01:39:44.920 --> 01:39:49.199 line, and I just sit there and nod yes and not know the same 1356 01:39:49.239 --> 01:39:57.439 as you guys. But I found it difficult to visualize what it was for 1357 01:39:57.520 --> 01:40:02.840 somebody to deconvert absolute they were an adult or something. Seth Andrews, he 1358 01:40:03.000 --> 01:40:10.279 was in his thirties, so it's just a different experience. Yeah, well, 1359 01:40:10.319 --> 01:40:13.119 I want to put you onto somebody. I want to put you onto 1360 01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:18.760 somebody named objectively, Dan who runs runs a great Hey, look, have 1361 01:40:18.840 --> 01:40:23.680 you ever seen truth wanted? Great? If you have nothing to do on 1362 01:40:23.680 --> 01:40:25.840 a Friday night, or better yet, if you have do have something to 1363 01:40:25.840 --> 01:40:28.199 do on a Friday night, you go ahead and cancel those plans. He 1364 01:40:28.399 --> 01:40:31.159 tuned in, tune in the truth wanted, the truth wanted, like I've 1365 01:40:31.199 --> 01:40:35.880 been doing now. But you know what Teddy now, well, you know, 1366 01:40:36.119 --> 01:40:41.720 you know Teddy's right though, because I found the ACA and I it 1367 01:40:41.800 --> 01:40:45.079 helped me, you know, kind of through my transition. I knew the 1368 01:40:45.079 --> 01:40:48.720 word atheist, but it was a devil worshiper. That was the definition associated 1369 01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:53.199 with that. You know. Yeah, I think I think that's the value 1370 01:40:53.199 --> 01:40:56.399 I hope that we can provide on shows like these is to like when we 1371 01:40:56.439 --> 01:41:00.520 say, promote positive atheist culture. That's not just a buzzwords, like we 1372 01:41:00.600 --> 01:41:01.920 really mean that. We wanted to show like, hey, you can live 1373 01:41:02.560 --> 01:41:06.239 an ethical life, sometimes a divisive life, right. You may you may 1374 01:41:06.279 --> 01:41:09.800 not agree with all of our takes, but like at least you get to 1375 01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:13.159 have a take, right, Like Christianity doesn't even let you get that right, 1376 01:41:13.239 --> 01:41:15.279 Like it's like, oh, you're this other thing. Well, you 1377 01:41:15.279 --> 01:41:18.159 know, you're not even talked about. Like I had the same experience. 1378 01:41:18.159 --> 01:41:21.479 I didn't know what an atheist was. I didn't really under fully understand what 1379 01:41:21.560 --> 01:41:26.800 that word meant because every time I did hear it, it was always another 1380 01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:30.039 Christian telling me what that was. It wasn't an atheist themselves telling me what 1381 01:41:30.079 --> 01:41:33.479 they believed or didn't believed and everything else that comes with that. So yeah, 1382 01:41:33.520 --> 01:41:38.840 I'm glad that you had the experience that you did, And I imagine 1383 01:41:38.880 --> 01:41:41.920 it's not as unique as you might think. I imagine bet there's other people 1384 01:41:41.960 --> 01:41:45.199 in the commons section or in the live chat right now who say, yeah, 1385 01:41:45.239 --> 01:41:47.840 actually, I kind of had a similar thing where there's kind of a 1386 01:41:47.960 --> 01:41:55.560 Christian social socially constructed idea of a Christian Christian identity rather than one that you 1387 01:41:55.600 --> 01:41:59.439 may, you know, sincerely believe. I think that's that's that can be 1388 01:41:59.520 --> 01:42:02.720 quite common. But yeah, as someone who did, I guess I was 1389 01:42:02.720 --> 01:42:05.479 an adults. I was like twenty twenty one. Some people say that's not 1390 01:42:05.479 --> 01:42:10.920 an adult. I was an adult legally that happened to me. It was 1391 01:42:11.239 --> 01:42:14.960 quite difficult for me to manage that, although a lot younger than like say 1392 01:42:15.000 --> 01:42:18.520 thirty with Seth and some other folks. So there's different, different life experiences 1393 01:42:18.560 --> 01:42:21.319 to compare there. But yeah, thanks Teddy, thanks for sharing that story 1394 01:42:21.359 --> 01:42:27.960 with us. Well, I a few years ago, maybe three years ago, 1395 01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:31.119 I actually came to the conclusion that I'm not an atheist, I'm an 1396 01:42:31.119 --> 01:42:36.960 anti Seistan. You can be both. There's something saying you can't be both. 1397 01:42:40.399 --> 01:42:43.600 Yeah, that's that. There's nothing. There's no rule saying you can't 1398 01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:49.640 be both. I don't think those are mutually exclusive identities. Yeah, keep 1399 01:42:49.800 --> 01:42:56.279 keep watching our shows, keep watching our shows and call back. Yeah, 1400 01:42:56.279 --> 01:43:01.479 thank you, ted of course, thank you. And with that we're gonna 1401 01:43:01.479 --> 01:43:04.119 be on the closing end of the show. But listen, Jimmy's gassing me 1402 01:43:04.159 --> 01:43:06.039 up here. Sorry, you need to go, say hey, go watch 1403 01:43:06.119 --> 01:43:13.079 Jimmy Jimmy, and Jimmy's been been doing some stuff on some of these shows. 1404 01:43:13.399 --> 01:43:15.680 Okay, Jimmy, Jimmy is is an up and I want to say 1405 01:43:15.760 --> 01:43:18.880 up and comer. That sounds so demeaning. Jimmy. Jimmy, Jimmy's a 1406 01:43:18.880 --> 01:43:24.199 full fledged host here at Talkiethan now. So he's he's he's doing his own 1407 01:43:24.239 --> 01:43:28.840 stuff. Go watch his episodes. Okay, he's he's making the rounds. 1408 01:43:29.359 --> 01:43:31.960 But thank you, thank you very much of course, of course, and 1409 01:43:32.239 --> 01:43:36.840 uh, with that, we are getting to the tail end of the show. 1410 01:43:38.239 --> 01:43:43.840 Jimmy, thanks so much for joining me today for great hosting with you 1411 01:43:43.880 --> 01:43:46.640 for the first time on talk Ethan, I should say, and even though 1412 01:43:46.680 --> 01:43:49.520 we are at the end of the show, just a reminder, we still 1413 01:43:49.560 --> 01:43:54.199 have our talk Eathan Timmy's psychment. We're gonna put that picture again on the 1414 01:43:54.239 --> 01:43:59.560 screen so you can comment below what is the best caption for this image. 1415 01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:01.800 I think Jimmy actually nailed it. I honestly don't think you guys can come 1416 01:44:01.880 --> 01:44:06.039 up with a better one than when he did for this because I think it's 1417 01:44:06.079 --> 01:44:11.560 hilarious. But leave your caption below, and of course please like and subscribe 1418 01:44:11.600 --> 01:44:15.439 and do all the fun YouTube stuff. If you haven't already, I think 1419 01:44:15.439 --> 01:44:19.159 we need to show some love rings at this time. What do you think, 1420 01:44:19.239 --> 01:44:23.359 Jimmy, let's do it all right? Okay, warmer hands up? 1421 01:44:23.359 --> 01:44:29.279 Oh as an early early it was a pre release sort of love ring. 1422 01:44:30.039 --> 01:44:36.000 It was a prettymature well that's I don't have my foreskind So there there's that. 1423 01:44:36.359 --> 01:44:43.840 Jesus oh man. Jimmy, uh we are I'm available on at on 1424 01:44:43.840 --> 01:44:47.000 Twitter at objectively Dan. Where can people find you at? Jimmy? Yeah, 1425 01:44:47.000 --> 01:44:51.239 I'm on the nonprofits quite a bit. I will be back on Talk 1426 01:44:51.319 --> 01:44:56.800 Heathen with Ben pre Veterans Day for a Veteran's Day show. I am so 1427 01:44:56.880 --> 01:45:00.079 happy about that. And I am also on Twitter or the platform formerly known 1428 01:45:00.079 --> 01:45:04.920 as Twitter. I think it's just x now. But Jimmy Underscore, Junior 1429 01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:10.279 Underscore and why all right? Thanks for being with me here Live in New 1430 01:45:10.359 --> 01:45:14.079 York, Dan, Live in New York. Yeah, I wonder how long 1431 01:45:14.119 --> 01:45:17.079 I wonder if it's a violation of FDC like regulations if we say we're like 1432 01:45:17.239 --> 01:45:21.680 live in New York and we're not actually, but there's only one it's it's 1433 01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:25.920 yeah, there's only one way to find out, folks, If you don't 1434 01:45:25.960 --> 01:45:29.880 believe, this is your community and we appreciate you being here. If you 1435 01:45:29.920 --> 01:45:34.000 do believe, we don't hate you. We're just not convinced. There we 1436 01:45:34.039 --> 01:45:36.359 go, There we go. We gotta thanks for watching, everybody. I'm 1437 01:45:36.359 --> 01:45:51.960 objectively Dan. This is Jimmy Junior. We'll see you next time. We 1438 01:45:53.159 --> 01:45:57.920 want the truth, So watch Truth Wanted live Friday at seven pm Central. 1439 01:45:58.319 --> 01:46:02.600 Visit tiny dot ccs slash y t tw and call into the show at five 1440 01:46:02.680 --> 01:46:08.399 one two nine nine one nine two four two, or connect to the show 1441 01:46:08.520 --> 01:46:12.399 online at tiny dot cc slash call tw