WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:20.719 This podcast contains intense subject matter. Listener discretion is advised. I do think 2 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:26.679 he was capable of doing it, but it is strange because whatever happened happened 3 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:30.839 that night, and then he called me, you know, and he brought 4 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:35.200 me the girls the next day, and then he's the bonnie. So when 5 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:56.119 did he get rid of the body From the pages of the reporter's notebook? 6 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:44.280 This is still season two. I'm your host, Gary Anderson. Patty Otto's 7 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:48.680 sister, Alice Mills, has no doubt that Ralph Otto killed his wife the 8 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:53.159 nine of August thirty first, nineteen seventy six. What she doesn't know is 9 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:57.400 where Ralph took her body and how he managed to hide a murder victim without 10 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:05.760 anyone knowing. We've wondered that too, so we want to review the timeline 11 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:09.159 of his known whereabouts and floats some theories for how things could have played out. 12 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:16.520 I want to be clear though these theories are simply conjecture. We need 13 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:22.439 your help to determine if they line up with the truth. Someone out there 14 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:28.159 knows what happened to Patty Otto. Someone also knows who the Findlay Creek Jando 15 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:35.000 is, and if she's Patty so here we go with our impressions of Patty's 16 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:46.520 case. We know that Ralph and Patty fought sometime after she left her parents' 17 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:52.919 house at around eleven pm on August thirty first, Remember that was a Tuesday 18 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:59.319 night. Ralph told police Patty was already home when he returned at about midnight. 19 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:02.879 He said they fought, he went to sleep, and she left sometime 20 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:13.360 before he awoke the next morning. His next verified contact with anyone is sometime 21 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:19.599 after the sun rose September first. Witnesses said that he went to Bonnie shop 22 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:23.199 Bell's house with his two daughters before noon, but it's not clear exactly what 23 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:30.080 time he arrived. Just to remind you, Bonnie was Ralph's girlfriend before he 24 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:35.759 married Patty. He was helping Bonnie's brother transfer a refrigerator from Bonnie's house to 25 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:42.719 a moving van because she was leaving for California the following day. Ralph called 26 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:46.520 Alice around one and then took the girls to her house at about two. 27 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:53.000 His whereabouts for the remainder of the day are well accounted for. I didn't 28 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.280 realize he in all this time that he with Bonnie right away. I thought 29 00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:00.639 when I had the girls that he disposed to for them. He brought me 30 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:08.159 to girls, but it sounds like he was with Bonnie. Ralph took Bonnie 31 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:12.039 shopping in Lewiston for a new outfit his going away present, and then they 32 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:16.160 had dinner with her parents, Wayne and Helen Bartlett. Other than telling people 33 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:20.160 that he couldn't find his wife, his behavior on September first didn't seem out 34 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:26.560 of the ordinary. So that's why. Now does it make more sense if 35 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:30.319 somebody else helped that night? Yeah, because I think he had it got 36 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:32.079 rid of it sometime in the beddle of night. How could he have been 37 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:39.800 so common next day with a body hanging around that's true, Well, this 38 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:46.279 is Ralph's soil. I guess he could have. But the Bartlett's dropped Ralph 39 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:51.480 off at his house between ten and ten thirty that night. His truck was 40 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:58.199 still in a sotan at Bonnie's parents house. The next morning, on September 41 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:00.839 second, Ralph called Bonnie and asked her a ride back to get his truck. 42 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:13.000 This is when his demeanor changed. Ralph sat down for breakfast at the 43 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:17.319 Bartlett's house but didn't eat. His eyes were red and watery, and he 44 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:21.519 was visibly upset. Bonnie said, he told her he had been up all 45 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:29.720 night and emphatically declared that Patty would not be coming back. Police interviewed the 46 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:34.040 Bartlett's about four months after this breakfast with Ralph. Bonnie's mom said she and 47 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:39.920 her husband had known Ralph for about twenty years. During the interview, which 48 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:45.639 police taped, Helen Bartlett said she didn't recall anything unusual about Ralph's behavior that 49 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:50.079 day, but she was also extremely tight lipped about what Ralph said the night 50 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:56.079 he told Bonnie he had killed Patty. Helen said, I wouldn't pay any 51 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.000 attention to anything he said. When police asked her what Annie had said about 52 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:04.199 Ralph's confession, she said, well, I don't even like to repeat it. 53 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:11.000 Detectives asked her why not, because I didn't pay too much attention to 54 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.240 it. Wayne and I both told her that, you know how he was 55 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:19.199 talking about that wire and just forget it. Ralph was apparently hallucinating that some 56 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:25.959 wire had gotten wrapped around his tire. Monnie told detective Tom Selene that Ralph 57 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:30.720 must have killed Patty between September first and September second. She had been with 58 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.680 him most of the day on September first, but he didn't start acting differently 59 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:39.240 until the following day, when he sat down with the Bartlets for breakfast. 60 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:45.199 Is it possible that Ralph did kill Patty late on August thirty first, the 61 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:48.759 night she disappeared, but stashed her body somewhere for twenty four hours until he 62 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:54.759 could get rid of her. As Alice said, it seems odd that he 63 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:58.639 could act so naturally knowing that a body was hidden in his house or somewhere 64 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:03.319 nearby. It's worth noting that Alice was inside his house as she looked around 65 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:09.240 briefly on September first. Other than a missing couch cushion, she didn't see 66 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:15.959 anything alarming. This is Christine reading from the transcript of what Alice told police 67 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:21.079 in a taped interview several days after Patty vanished. First I knocked and called 68 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:25.279 her name, and then I just went all through the house, kitchen, 69 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:30.399 bedroom's, living room, downstairs, I looked in the garage, and then 70 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:34.240 I just kind of walked around the yard. In that interview back in nineteen 71 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:39.519 seventy six, Selene wanted to be clear. He asked Alice, quote, 72 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:43.800 you were suspicious and thought he had done her in or something. She responded, 73 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:48.879 yes, In a previous episode, you also heard Alice say she was 74 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:55.000 nervous on that walk through and didn't linger when she looked around, she didn't 75 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:59.079 see any blood. The house was a mess, though, and Alice said 76 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:03.879 Patty would not have left it that way. On September two, the day 77 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.360 Bonnie said Ralph was acting strangely, Alice returned to the house to get closed 78 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:13.319 for the girls. This was the day Alice Saw's shovel leaning against the house 79 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:18.279 and a tarp spread out in the backyard. Patty's station wagon was also parked 80 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:22.480 in an unusual spot. It was on the side of the house, near 81 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:33.440 the door that led from the kitchen to the yard. Let's talk for a 82 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:39.919 minute about that station wagon. We are not certain of the exact model, 83 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:46.120 but we do know it was a nineteen seventy one Chevrolet. Chevy offered several 84 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:52.480 varieties of station wagons that year. Even though we don't know the exact model, 85 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:58.320 it's certain that it was roomy. Was that the kind that had the 86 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.120 third row of seats in the back that folded down. I'm not sure it 87 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.399 had a third row seat. I don't remember seeing a third row seat. 88 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:09.600 I just know it had a lot of storage back, you know, and 89 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:13.120 you had your front seat, back seat, and then it had the big 90 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:18.399 storage area okay, instead of having a trunk. But I don't remember third 91 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:24.799 row seats yet they were They were always sold it down. We wondered if 92 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:31.639 the cargo area was spacious enough to stash a body. We found someone in 93 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:37.960 New Mexico with a similar station wagon listed for sale. John Seyford's Chevy Wagon 94 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.639 is two years newer and maybe slightly smaller than Patti's was, but we figured 95 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:48.000 it was close enough in body style to be worth checking out. We asked 96 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:54.480 John if we could send someone by to look at it, Even though we 97 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:58.159 made it clear that we weren't interested in buying the vehicle, John was kind 98 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:05.399 enough to oblige kick it out. Did he tell you what this was about? 99 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:07.200 Yeah, you do a true crime. Yeah, so Gary does a 100 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:13.159 Gary Karen. They do a true crime podcast called Still and Our friends, 101 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.399 Jeff Wilson and Michelle Pool happened to be traveling through New Mexico recently and offered 102 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.879 to take a detour through the village of Pacas to look the car over a 103 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.000 compartment or their seat folds down and he just wanted me to stop, buy 104 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.639 and see is not even plausible? I would say absolutely yes. We had 105 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.639 one that style when I was a kid. Yeah, and we had the 106 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.240 seats that were in the back that would flowed out like that instead of instead 107 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:39.600 of like the backways like this way. They went side to side and had 108 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.360 like a little areas, so they were like opposing we had had. They 109 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:45.279 were opposing, and they had like a little area that would come up for 110 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.440 like a little seat or a little table as magnetics checkers, so they wouldn't 111 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.440 slide around. Okay, so that's plenty if I would definitely say there's plenty 112 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.240 of space, you're we going to look and take a look. This car 113 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:00.120 had been sitting unused for quite some time, and the tailgate had got and 114 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:05.279 jammed. I always think John gave Jeff and Michelle permission to pride open to 115 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.440 get a better look. Round wheel and the round keys from the square doors. 116 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:13.399 You don't mind me pulling on it? Whatever you need to may not 117 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.679 be possible, Yeah, I don't know it was. I tried to open 118 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:18.799 it the other day and I couldn't. I got the keys to turn. 119 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.360 I don't know if it's just frozen shut or I've got some pryebars if you 120 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.360 want, Um, do you have the keys to Oh you said it's in 121 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.200 the cognition. Yeah, the keys are in the cognition. Like I said, 122 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:30.919 the square keys are there. I mean the let's say, if we 123 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:35.600 can get this door open. Once they got the rear door open, they 124 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:41.919 saw the cargo space. Wow. We got ahold of GM's vehicle information kit 125 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:48.120 for nineteen seventy one Chevy Station wagons. Every model in the line had a 126 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:52.679 ton of unobstructed space in the rear cargo area. Vehicles without the third row 127 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:58.759 seat option had the most space. A removable or foldable platform divides the rear 128 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.960 base. Below the platform, there is a well between the wheels. Without 129 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:07.639 a third row of seats, the well space is more than four feet wide 130 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:13.720 and several feet long. Turn it turn the key. So how does this 131 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:15.679 fold up? You know? As far as I know, I think that 132 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.360 just flips back. Look at that. Wow, oh yeah, I can 133 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.120 totally fit in there. Okay, oh yeah, I can fit in there. 134 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:31.600 So the person was petite. I believe. I believe you could put 135 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:37.159 a person in here. Absolutely, that's probably three foot wide by I could 136 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.600 fit in there. You could for sure I'm five ten, so yeah, 137 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:45.679 yeah, if you're folded up pretty good, I think you probably you don't 138 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.039 even have to fold up pretty good. I mean if you just know, 139 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:54.879 like yeah, I just I just been in half I could fit. Well, 140 00:12:54.879 --> 00:13:00.320 that's interesting. Yeah, I would say it's definitely possible to if there's 141 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:28.480 somebody in there. Our friend Michelle is about six inches taller than Patty was. 142 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.759 To test her assertion that she'd fit, Michelle climbed inside the well space. 143 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:37.600 Even with tools and a third row seat in the way, which Patty's 144 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.960 station wagon didn't have. She was almost able to fully curl up inside the 145 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:46.759 well. If the seat weren't there, she could have easily spread out and 146 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:54.399 be concealed under the platform. Something else to keep in mind is that Ralph's 147 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:58.000 friend Ron Roady told us that Ralph had gotten stuck at the top of a 148 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.639 runaway truck ramp. To refresh your memory, this is what he told us 149 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:09.919 in episode four. They had a Cheverley station wagon and Ralph I don't even 150 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.360 know why he told me or how he told me that he had been out 151 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.320 that night in the middle of the night. They were building the new Lewiston 152 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:22.559 Hill at the time. And he had gotten that station wagon stuck at the 153 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:28.080 top of one of the runaway truck gramps, in the gravel, and he 154 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:33.879 brought a bucket of that gravel home with him. So I always kind of 155 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:39.159 suspected that that's where he put her volley, is up in the deep gravel 156 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:45.120 of the runaway truck ramp, which would be a spot nobody would ever dig 157 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:50.159 up. That was always my suspicions. Ron said Ralph was driving the station 158 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:56.799 wagon, not his truck. It seems bizarre to us that someone would attempt 159 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:00.480 to drive any kind of vehicle on top of a gravel runaway tru truck ramp. 160 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:03.679 Those ramps, which are built into the side of a steep hill, 161 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:09.679 are designed to let the driver of a semitruck essentially bury his rig deep into 162 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.960 an enormous pile of gravel if his brakes give out, stopping the truck from 163 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:20.440 careening out of control. Now, maybe when Ron referred to Ralph getting stuck 164 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.960 at the top of one of those ramps, he didn't mean literally on top 165 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:30.039 of the gravel. Let's just assume that's even possible. Whatever his reason might 166 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.360 have been for attempting such a thing, why would he do it in a 167 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:37.679 station wagon when he had a truck at his disposal. The answer might be 168 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:43.080 that he had left his truck at Bonnie's parents house overnight between September first and 169 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:48.559 September second, and the station wagon was still parked outside his house and available 170 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:52.879 for him to drive. Patty hadn't taken off in it, and Ralph said 171 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.960 himself that she wasn't coming back. We don't think he would have hidden Patty's 172 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.240 body in the station wagon for a full day until he had time to bury 173 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:04.480 her. The next night, on that September first, the temperature rose to 174 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.360 one hundred degrees in Lewiston. If he had waited to bury her, she 175 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:15.279 had to have been stashed somewhere else. Alice didn't see her anywhere in the 176 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.879 house. Was there another place he could have hidden her body temporarily until he 177 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:29.360 could safely dispose of it. We do know that Ralph had a chest style 178 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:37.000 freezer in the basement. In a previous episode, we talked about Ralph's brother 179 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:41.639 Ray and his sister in law Dodie, searching Ralph's house for clues about Patty's 180 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:51.559 whereabouts in early November of nineteen seventy six. During one of those searches, 181 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.440 the couple noted that they found a hotel key on the basement floor near the 182 00:16:55.480 --> 00:17:03.000 freezer. We don't think Ralph kept our body there for weeks, but it 183 00:17:03.079 --> 00:17:10.519 could have been in the freezer for a day. When we interviewed Selene, 184 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.480 he told us he didn't think that was the case. Though I can't be 185 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:21.359 sure of that, but I would say absolutely not in my judgment. Okay. 186 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:25.400 We'd like to note, though, that the house wasn't searched by police 187 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:30.359 until several days after Patty disappeared. That gave Ralph time to move her body, 188 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:36.680 even if it had been temporarily stored on his property. Police probably looked 189 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:38.799 in the freezer during one of their walkthroughs, but there may have been no 190 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:45.759 visible evidence that Patty had been put there. We're not crime scene technicians, 191 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:49.319 so we don't know what specific clues police may have looked for. Keep in 192 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:55.720 mind, though, the freezer is just our theory. Until this episode, 193 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.480 we've tried to be objective and have consciously tried not to make the seemingly random 194 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.759 bits and pieces of evidence fit our theories about what happened that night and whether 195 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:10.920 Patty Otto is to Findley Creek Jane Doe. But this seems like a good 196 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:17.200 time to float another idea that's continually nagged at us. It's about those boots 197 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:22.319 that were found on the Jane Doe. After studying the photos from the crime 198 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.720 scene for a while, we started to intently focus on the boots, and 199 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.079 we're just trying to, you know, say, couldn't I saw the pictures 200 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:36.279 of those boots, those boots, so we'll talk about Yes, those are 201 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:41.079 not Patty's boots. Alice was certain about that, and she didn't recall if 202 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:45.799 Ralph ever wore footwear like the boots found in the Jane Doo's grave either, 203 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:51.039 nor did she recall him walking with a limp causing uneven wear on the sole 204 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:56.039 of one of those shoes. But a tiny thread does provide a loose connection 205 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:02.680 between the boots and Ralph. When Ralph and Bonnie went shopping on September first, 206 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:07.039 one of the places they went was a store called Javvy Bootery. We 207 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.359 didn't pay much attention to this detail when we first read about it in the 208 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:15.559 police reports, but during our research we came across a few articles written about 209 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:21.960 this locally owned chain of stores. The first Javvy store opened as a specialty 210 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:26.720 shop for prescription and orthopedic shoes. By the mid nineteen seventies, the store 211 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.920 had added fashioned footwear to its stock, but its bread and butter was still 212 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.279 what we had now call comfort shoes. We believe that the ankle high boots 213 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:40.640 the Jane Dooe was wearing when she was found looked like a pair of desert 214 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:45.359 Chucka boots, which were originally designed in nineteen fifty by Clarks. If you're 215 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:51.279 not familiar with the Clark's brand, it's known for crafting shoes that are designed 216 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:57.160 for comfort. The classic desert boot is iconic for the brand. It's a 217 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:03.440 very interesting coincidence that Ralph was shopping at a store that sold similar footwear to 218 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.920 what the finlaycrete Jane Doe was wearing, and he made a purchase there on 219 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:12.880 the same day Patty vanished. Alice Mills told us that Patty usually wore tennis 220 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:18.799 shoes, and she assumed that she was wearing them when she vanished. But 221 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.720 what if Patty wasn't wearing shoes when Ralph got home, If she had been 222 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.480 home for more than a few minutes before Ralph walked in and they started fighting, 223 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:33.160 it's plausible that she had already taken off her shoes. Remember it was 224 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.440 fairly late at night. If Ralph killed her that night and waited to dispose 225 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.720 of her body, it may not have occurred to Ralph until he got to 226 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.440 the burial site that he had a problem. If her body was ever discovered, 227 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.240 his lie about her leaving in the middle of the night wouldn't make sense. 228 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:53.799 If she was barefooted, she wouldn't have walked out without shoes, especially 229 00:20:53.839 --> 00:21:00.279 if she never planned to return. In that case, it might make sense 230 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.799 to take off his own shoes, maybe a pair he bought for himself at 231 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:08.480 Javy Boottery, and put them on her feet. That might explain why he 232 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:14.720 was wandering around his own yard while wearing insulated coveralls but no shoes on September 233 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:18.920 fifth, nineteen seventy six, If you recall, that's when his brother stopped 234 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:26.119 by his house and found Ralph dressed bizarrely and in a stupor. We know 235 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:32.160 it's a stretch, but what if we have good reason to hope that we'll 236 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:37.920 soon have more than theories and loose connections to tie these cases together. At 237 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:42.519 least two of the people actively involved in the Finlay Creek Jandoe Task Force have 238 00:21:42.680 --> 00:22:03.319 played a significant role in getting other cases solved. Anthony Redgray developed the composite 239 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:07.960 sketch of the Jane Doe that first caught Suzanne's attention last year. He also 240 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.559 created a rendering of a man whose skull was found in an agricultural field in 241 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:19.160 nineteen eighty three. This is Anthony talking so the case that we just closed 242 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:27.279 out at the end of last year, Bill Lewis, who was previously an 243 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:33.559 unidentified victim of Larry Eiler. Larry Eiler is believed to have murdered at least 244 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:38.839 twenty one young men between nineteen eighty two and nineteen eighty four. He had 245 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:45.880 a really awful forensic image prior to the one that the one that I did 246 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:52.160 because it was based on if I'm remembering this directly, it was based on 247 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:55.680 the description that Larry Eiler gave to a status artist. It wasn't based on 248 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:59.720 the remains because the skull was actually really damaged when they recovered it because it 249 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:03.839 was an an agricultural field. Um, this is the second time I've done 250 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:10.640 a reconstruction image off of somebody whose remains were damaged in an agricultural field, 251 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:18.599 and so I was pretty comfortable taking that taking that on. So what happened 252 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:23.680 was the entire midface was was damaged, and I worked with my anthropology consultants 253 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:30.400 to infer the features that should have been there, and you know, the 254 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.920 whole time we were working on the genealogy of the case, I was like, 255 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.599 you know, I feel like, I feel really confident that this is 256 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.359 really good art, but you know, there was so much that was missing, 257 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:44.799 and I really trust my anthropology consultants, but how can I be sure 258 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.039 that this is one percent like or needing even ninety percent you know close? 259 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:59.599 And we ended up getting really alarmingly close to what he actually looked like. 260 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.160 And I'll send you our case stage on that one, because we have the 261 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:08.960 forensic art and a photo of him side by side, and honestly, it 262 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:14.279 was in really the remainder are in really rough shape. But I think that 263 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:19.000 so far, that's been the closest I've gotten with a reconstruction image. DNA 264 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:25.799 analysis confirmed that the man Anthony's art work closely resembled was indeed Bill Lewis. 265 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:32.079 Jason Fudge, one of the Finlay Creek Task Force leaders, also investigated a 266 00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:37.839 John Doe case before taking on the Finlay Creek mystery. His research, including 267 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.400 interviews with law enforcement, helped them identify a man who had been brutally murdered 268 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:48.279 in Florida. Here's Jason, and what I hear not law enforcement one, 269 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:55.680 but when I hear from the family members themselves that I was pretty much responsible 270 00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:00.599 for at least getting their brother identified. I I feel good about it, 271 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:08.359 and I feel like I have contributed something to this field. The Findlay Creek 272 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:12.799 Jainedoe Task Force and a team of advocates for Patty Otto, including her daughter 273 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:18.359 Suzanne and Suzanne's cousin Jennifer Harrington, have been working relentlessly to get authorities to 274 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:23.039 take another look at the two cases. The group has been talking with Department 275 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:29.680 of Justice representatives and has gotten help from a forensic odentologist to reevaluate X rays 276 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:33.759 of Patti Auto and compare them to the Jain Doe. They believe a match 277 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:40.279 should have never been ruled out. Here's Melinda Jetterberg. That's kind of what 278 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.200 we're looking at right now. It's like, prove it isn't her, because 279 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:45.319 they can't, then they can't. So far, they have not been able 280 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:49.799 to do it, so before they could get help from a tooth expert, 281 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:55.519 they needed additional copies of Pattiotto's dentol X rays to provide. Lewis and Police 282 00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:00.880 and an odentologist. Jennifer went on a mission to find a dental office that 283 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:07.000 still had a machine to duplicate film, and I finally found somebody that could 284 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:10.960 do it. It was a long process, but I ended up at doctor 285 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.440 doctor Earls, the one who took the original panel. Doctor Shepherd purchased his 286 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:19.079 practice. I popped in there and had a great conversation with him. He 287 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.920 said that they were fully digital now, but he has sold his duplicator to 288 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:26.599 another doctor in town, doctor Wilson. So you might give doctor Wilson's office 289 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:30.799 to call and see if they still have it. They were closed then, 290 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.279 so I continued doing my search through the evening. That's Jennifer Harrington talking. 291 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:40.680 You'll hear what sounds like a lot of static as she continues talking. We 292 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.000 recorded this conversation in the woods of Oregon, and bugs were interfering with our 293 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.599 audio. Really nice lady named Tamara answers the phone. No, we're all 294 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.960 digital, we don't have a duplicator, and so I start just kind of 295 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.759 explaining this is for a missing person from the seventies, that we have this 296 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.599 one copy of this panel and we need an additional one to provide the police 297 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.880 department for an identification purpose. And okay, well, wait a minute, 298 00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:11.920 our office in Palmray might have one. And I never ever go through Palm 299 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:12.960 Ray. But I was coming over to Walla, Walla and I was going 300 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.400 to drive right through Palm Ray, and so she checked, Yes, they 301 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.319 have a duplicator. We can facilitate that for you. It'll take a couple 302 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.119 of days. I'm like, no, I'm driving through Palm Ray this afternoon. 303 00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.119 I can stop. They close at three, and my timing with a 304 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:36.000 doctor's appointment, I got there at five minutes till three, and I got 305 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.799 it duplicated. So we have the duplicate from the police department. But here's 306 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:45.160 where the story gets really interesting. I'm still on the phone with Tiama. 307 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.039 She's told me they can do it and everything, and she says, so, 308 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.039 which department are you with? Said, oh, no, I'm not 309 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:56.319 with a department. I'm a family member of the missing person, and we, 310 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.160 as the family, have a copy that we need to give it to 311 00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:02.960 the police department. She said, Oh, my dad was a police officer 312 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:07.279 back and around that time frame, so this kind of stuff always is interesting 313 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:11.440 to me. And I was just about to say something more than I was 314 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.640 like, well, who is your dad? Duyne Naylor? Oh, I 315 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:21.480 was talking to Dwayne Ayler's daughter on the phone, and she is the one 316 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:26.200 who facilitated getting that copy made for us, of all the people in the 317 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.680 world, And it's not an office I would have called on my own. 318 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.000 I was led there through doctor Earl, through doctor Shepherd, and Duyanne Nayler's 319 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:41.599 daughter found the duplicator for me, and I just happened to be going through 320 00:28:41.640 --> 00:29:11.599 that town that afternoon. Anyway, you probably remember that Duane Ayler is the 321 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.160 police captain that Ralph tried to have killed. While we're on the subject of 322 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:21.680 Ayler, I wanted to touch on something else. People have asked us if 323 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:26.359 Ralph was as upset about Patty's brief relationship with Randy Benton as it appeared, 324 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.079 why did he put a hit on the police captain instead of the man Patty 325 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.039 had an affair with. Ralph had told plenty of people he wanted Randy dead 326 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:40.319 and even carried around a gun with that intent. In a twisted sort of 327 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:44.519 way, we can kind of understand that Ralph wanted the satisfaction of killing Randy 328 00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:48.400 himself. And sure, maybe Ralph had a burning hatred of Aylor too, 329 00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:52.920 But if so, why would he delegate the dirty deed of killing him to 330 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:59.480 someone else. Maybe the answer is that he didn't really care one way or 331 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:14.680 another about Aylor. Ralph often said that if he had truly wanted the police 332 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:22.799 captain dead, he would have killed him himself. Maybe Ayler was simply collateral 333 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:30.400 damage in Ralph's mind. Look at it this way. If you truly want 334 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.720 investigators focused on something other than you, you need to create a diversion. 335 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.039 A sure fire distraction would be for one of their own to get murdered. 336 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.720 It's a fairly well accepted truth that police officers form a brotherhood of sorts. 337 00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:52.079 If one of their brothers had been killed, Ralph could safely bet that most 338 00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.680 of the department's resources would be focused on solving that murder, not looking into 339 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:03.240 the disappearance of his wife. If he orchestrated that murder, he needed to 340 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.799 distance himself from it as much as possible. Ralph was making plans to leave 341 00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:14.000 town when the hit was supposed to take place. He was going to take 342 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:18.119 his daughters to Disneyland, far away from Lewistown, so the murder wouldn't be 343 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:23.039 connected to him. He also chose to put a hit on someone other than 344 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:30.440 the detective most directly involved in investigating Patty's disappearance. He picked the police captain 345 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:36.960 instead. We certainly don't know if Ralph actually put that much thought into his 346 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.880 murder for Higher plot, but we know he was a cunning man, and 347 00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.720 if we believe that someone helped him get rid of Patty's body, maybe someone 348 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:52.920 was also providing counsel about how to deflect attention from himself. As we told 349 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.680 you previously, not long after Ralph went to prison for the murder for Higher 350 00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:00.720 scheme, one of his close friends, a woman we've referred to as Eve, 351 00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:07.200 shot her own husband, nearly killing him. Suzanne shared some of the 352 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:13.759 letters Ralph wrote to Eve while he was in prison. The letters were confiscated 353 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:20.160 by police in their search of Eve's property after she shot her husband. In 354 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:25.160 the letters, it's clear that Ralph and Eve shared more than friendship. He 355 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:31.640 was even making plans to shift custody of his daughters to Eve. We asked 356 00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:37.880 Eve's grandson if he believes his grandmother could have been directly involved in Patty's disappearance. 357 00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:42.799 I mean I know, or more I know, or better than anybody. 358 00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:45.599 I mean, I've been around her, and I've seen her attitude, 359 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:50.440 and I've felt the strangeness that she puts off. But like I said, 360 00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:52.799 I never really thought a whole lot of it. I always thought I was 361 00:32:52.839 --> 00:33:01.079 just being paranoid. Do you believe she would kill somebody? Honestly? I 362 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.759 do? I mean I really do. I told Susanne that I believe with 363 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:12.160 everything in my heart and in my brain and just everything I've I've witnessed and 364 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:19.119 I've been around her, I believe that she did it herself, or she 365 00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:22.599 definitely got rid of the body, you know what I mean. I mean, 366 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:27.680 she had something to do with this, or did it herself. There 367 00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:43.039 is no other if, ander butt or any other way. We've been advised 368 00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:52.440 against contacting Eve to avoid compromising a possible police investigation. It's fairly easy for 369 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.599 us to suggest what seems likely, or take the little bits of information we 370 00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:01.480 have and make them fit a particular theory, but it really is just our 371 00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:07.960 speculation. We truly have no way of knowing what really happened that night, 372 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:14.519 unless someone who saw something or has direct knowledge comes forward. That's what this 373 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:20.800 case really needs. Secrets are hard to keep, and someone out there knows 374 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:25.880 more than they've told authorities. We know that Ralph unburdened his conscience by talking 375 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:31.280 to friends about that night. Whether what he said was mere hallucination or an 376 00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:37.320 actual confession, he clearly felt some level of guilt. And if he told 377 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:43.119 one friend something, he surely told someone else even more. This is our 378 00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:51.960 plea for answers. Here's tom Selene again. Either he did something himself or 379 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:57.840 has somebody else helped him, and we don't know who that is, right, 380 00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:00.920 and I think the only way that we're going to solve this case now 381 00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:09.159 is to find the body or get someone to talk that he talked to or 382 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:15.280 that was involved. I really regret that that case was not solved. I 383 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:21.480 really wanted it to be solved. There's no doubt in my mind that he 384 00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:40.760 has responsibility. Typically, at this point in the episode, we'd give you 385 00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:46.400 a hint about what you'll hear next time on Still, but we won't be 386 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:53.320 doing that today because even we don't know what that may be. There are 387 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.760 a lot of moving parts in this investigation right now, so we're going to 388 00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:04.800 pause for a bit as exciting things develop. We'll pick up the story when 389 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:09.960 we're in a position to fill you in on what's happening. I think it'll 390 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.719 be worth the way, so keep an eye out for new episodes dropping soon. 391 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:37.960 Anyone with information pertaining to the disappearance of Patricia Otto should contact the Lewiston 392 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:45.840 Police Department's tipline at two zero eight to nine eight nine three nine. Anyone 393 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.320 with information pertaining to the identity of the Finland Creek Jane Doe, or other 394 00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:55.239 information related to that case should contact the Union County District Attorney at DA at 395 00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:01.000 Union hyphen County dot org. If you, or anyone you know is a 396 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:07.840 victim of domestic abuse, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at eight hundred 397 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:15.960 seven nine nine. Safe Still is a production of The Reporter's Notebook and Grayson 398 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:22.360 Shaw Media. You can connect with us online at the Reporter's Notebook dot com 399 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:30.639 or via email at info at the Reporter's Notebook dot com. Still was researched, 400 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:37.960 written, and produced by Karen Shaw Anderson. Additional research in script editing 401 00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:45.119 provided by Christine Hughes. Original music by Smith Huosso. Additional narration provided by 402 00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:52.119 Sarah Morgan. I'm your host and associate producer Gary Anderson. Special thanks to 403 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:58.840 everyone who graciously provided interviews. We would specifically like to thank the advocates for 404 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:04.880 Pattiato, the Findley Creek Task Force, and contributing investigators Jeff Wilson and Michelle 405 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:10.960 Poole. Like follow and subscribe to Still on your favorite podcast platform, and 406 00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:20.880 follow us on Facebook or Twitter to join the conversation. Ezekiel thirty four sixteen. 407 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:23.400 I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the stray, 408 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.280 and I will bind up the injured, and I will strengthen the weak.