WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:10.359 Hey, Welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rogues podcast. This week, 2 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:15.519 on our panel we have Valentino Stole. Hey. Now, I'm Charles 3 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:18.800 Maxwood from top End DEEVS. I'm gonna do a little personal thing here real 4 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:23.079 quick. My contract work has slowed down, so if you need a contractor 5 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:27.760 let me know Chuck at topendevs dot com. Or if you're hiring full time, 6 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:31.480 I might even consider that, so anyway, just email me. We 7 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:34.600 have a special guest this week and that is Nathan Bellow. Nathan, do 8 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:39.840 you want to introduce yourself? Hello, I'm Nathan Bellow. I'm from Canada 9 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:47.079 and Montreal and I'm a cool for developers professionally since two years now and I 10 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:55.759 work with Ruby rails and you Jess very cool. Hey, folks, this 11 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:58.719 is Charles Maxwood. I've been talking to a bunch of people that want to 12 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:03.359 update their rest may and find a better job, and I figure, well, 13 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:04.879 why not just share my resume? So you if you go to top 14 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:11.040 endevs dot com slash resume, enter your name and email address, then you'll 15 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:15.319 get a copy of the resume that I use, that I've used through freelancing 16 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.480 through most of my career as I've kind of refined it and tweaked it to 17 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:23.000 get me the jobs that I want. Like I said, top endevs dot 18 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.359 com slash resume. We'll get you that, and you can just kind of 19 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:30.359 use the formatting. It comes in word and pages formats and you can just 20 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.560 fill it in from there. Yeah, just a little side note, My 21 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:40.719 grandparents met in Montreal, so yeah, neither of them are from Montreal and 22 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:46.400 they lived there very long. Anyway, Very cool. So you're you're kind 23 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.200 of new. Valentino introduced or invited you on the show, So I'll I'll 24 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.480 let Valentino kind of give us some context and steer this one. Yeah. 25 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:57.560 You know, I met Nathan at one of the Ruby comps when it was 26 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:07.079 virtual, and you know, he's he's awesome, and you know, I 27 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:09.479 got to talking with him, and you know, we pair on occasion on 28 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:15.560 a couple of open source things, and you know, I'm just curious. 29 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:21.280 I wanted to kind of get like a you know, how do people ruby, 30 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:23.360 Like, how do you get introduced to the community, you know, 31 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:30.400 what is that experience like? And Nathan graciously agreed to come on and kind 32 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:37.319 of chat through his experience and you know what you know Ruby local conferences are 33 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:40.719 like, I'm always curious. I see some great presentations at Montreal RB and 34 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:46.159 you know, I'm I just wanted to start a little dialogue with what you 35 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:52.039 know, with kind of like what new Ruby experience is like and how we 36 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:59.240 can maybe improve it or you know, help in any way as community members. 37 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.800 So uh, you know, I'm happy to have you here, Nathan, 38 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:06.840 and you know it. Do you want to give a little intro maybe 39 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.400 to how what were your first Ruby experience was like? Even like how did 40 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:19.719 you how'd you get involved? You know in this direction? Absolutely so as 41 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:25.199 far as software development, I was very into it since a long time ago 42 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:35.240 when I was a kid. And no so I'm originally from Brazil, but 43 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:39.039 I grew up in most of my school was in France. I lived ten 44 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:45.400 years in France and when I was twelve, there were there were some extra 45 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:52.000 curriculum at school which was you could choose different things, but there were one 46 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:58.439 thing that was about programming. So I was very interested, so I did 47 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:00.599 that. I don't remember which LINKU I learned. I think it was PHP, 48 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:06.280 but for so long time ago, but on my mind I always knew 49 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:11.280 how it is the past I wanted to take, but I didn't know it 50 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:18.079 was a career or anything before. So after high school I started looking to 51 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:26.800 universities. So I take the Yeah, so I was in France end of 52 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:31.480 high school. Then I go to university in Montreal. So I learned all 53 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:41.319 these languages see JavaScript, Java, and I really liked more the front end. 54 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:46.720 At that time I didn't like but at some point I wanted to specialize 55 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:55.680 in the back end, and I did a program in Rugby with open classrooms. 56 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:59.120 I don't know if you know this school, it's based in France. 57 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.959 I think I'm one of the only ones who have a bachelor diploma in Ruby. 58 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:10.079 It doesn't exist anymore, but I have it. I can show you. 59 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:18.639 And yeah, so that's how I got introduced. Because I didn't know 60 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:23.720 Ruby. I never heard about it. So I was like, this, 61 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:28.600 this is something I want to learn. And I researched a little bit and 62 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:33.959 it seems that it's beginning friendly, easy to use. Extra that's what got 63 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:40.720 me to choose that. So I did the whole program with Ruby, and 64 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:47.800 I had a grand mentor. And yeah, I think my program was so 65 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:55.000 hard that in the beginning I was doing some like just just Ruby. I 66 00:05:55.040 --> 00:06:00.720 was making some Ruby applications like a game, and then I had to write 67 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:05.839 it in a object oriented way. Then I did the web application without rails. 68 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:12.360 That was the hardest thing with the RACK, you know, and there 69 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:20.279 were no documentations online. All documentations are with rails or active record and for 70 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:26.560 some deep stuff. So yeah, that was my most painful. But then 71 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:33.040 when I transitioned with rails, I find it it was kind of more easy. 72 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:39.279 Just with the active record, I had a hard time because my brain 73 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:44.680 was all squl So that was I think that was the hardest thing for me 74 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:50.439 to adapt. But other than that, it flew. It was it was 75 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:59.639 quite nice the experience. So that's that's my that's my traduction to to really 76 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:06.199 busy. That's awesome. I feel like a lot of REELS developers can relate 77 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:12.759 to the pain of RACK. It's the the inner It's it's funny because like 78 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.240 I feel like the design of the interface of RAC is really great, right, 79 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:23.079 Like it's just like you have inputs that are standardized and it requires outputs 80 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:28.959 that are also standardized. But that's it. You don't really get anything else 81 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:33.319 and you have to do everything yourself, which which makes you love reels that 82 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.800 much more so, honestly sounds like a great program. You you were part 83 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:42.720 of the pain, so you can know why you should love it, you 84 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:49.639 know totally. And then after that, yeah, yeah, I was going 85 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:54.000 to ask, but I think you were going there with your after that is 86 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:57.480 I was going to say, Okay, so you know you learn rails, 87 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.439 you you did some of this school work or however you want to put it. 88 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:05.160 You know, how do you how do you get from there to Okay? 89 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:11.199 Now I'm a professional, I'm getting paid. It's right code right, 90 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:18.079 So through all this pain, and I did a RAILS up like it's not 91 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:26.319 super complex, but I could deploy on Amazon WS. And then I felt, 92 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:31.959 okay, let's look for a job. And so I started applying. 93 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:41.200 And one thing I did was my resume was very but it was very unique 94 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:48.519 in I don't know for me, it was a I did like I did 95 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.159 some kind of design on it. I don't know if that's because of that 96 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.279 or not, but I got a lot of I got good results with my 97 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:03.960 research. That was in twenty twenty two, like January February, and just 98 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:11.679 in one month and a half, I think I applied thirty or fifty and 99 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:18.480 then I got I got how many interviews? Six interviews and two offers. 100 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:26.360 But the trick for me was I really I really saw myself like more than 101 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.960 my skills. I really say, oh, this is who I am, 102 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:37.480 this is my dream, this is what I'm passionate about. And I also 103 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:43.879 mentioned my previous experience, like when I was studying, I did some other 104 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:50.240 job like salesman, this kind of job, and it helped me too. 105 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:56.399 Because soft skills are very it's always a plus. So I think those things 106 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:05.240 that helped me get my first job nice. So what kind of what kind 107 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:07.360 of work setup was it? You can tell us who the company was, 108 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.759 but you don't have to. Some people aren't comfortable doing that and that's fine, 109 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:15.240 but you know, kind of give us an idea of what that job 110 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:22.799 looked like. Yeah, so this job is so at that time, it 111 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:31.440 was full remote and I was working with another rails developer and the beginning was 112 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:39.039 yeah, I was like kind of junior, right, So the first three 113 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.120 months he was giving me dask but he said to me, I was good 114 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:50.559 as the first three months. I said, you know, okay, he 115 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:56.879 was. He was impressed, I think because I went through so much struggles 116 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:03.399 with rack and everything. Yeah, so so yeah, after the three months, 117 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:13.639 I I was assigned more responsibilities and I ended up leading the project after 118 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:18.519 six months. And I learned views on the way as well I didn't know 119 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:26.039 before, and that's part of the stack at port and the company is LuxI 120 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:33.320 based in Montreal. So I like to get into kind of the Okay, 121 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.120 somebody who's listening, right, what are they going to get out of this? 122 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.919 Right? And so I kind of see two groups. I think a 123 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.200 lot of the people who listen to these shows are people who have been doing 124 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:48.519 Ruby for a while, right, So they're not necessarily going, all right, 125 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:50.799 how do I break into Ruby? Right? They're in. But there's 126 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.440 another group that listens because, yeah, they've picked up Ruby somewhere, you 127 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.879 know, they got exposed to it, you know, at one point or 128 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.960 another, like you did, and they want to get in. So I'm 129 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:03.720 going to ask this question twice, and I'm gonna ask it once for the 130 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:07.519 new people and once for the people who are already kind of past the gate. 131 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.639 So for people who are brand new. Right, So let's say that 132 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:15.960 I have a brother who wants to get into Ruby. I don't at the 133 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:20.600 moment you know and you know he's he's interested and he wants to get in 134 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:26.039 and be a professional Ruby or Ruby on Rails developer. What advice do you 135 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:33.720 have just to kind of get through to that first job? Right? So 136 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:41.799 one one first thing as far as as far as the learning, I would 137 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.679 say, if he goes to the audio projects, I don't know if you 138 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:54.080 heard about it project, I think that's what I hear the most, one 139 00:12:54.080 --> 00:13:01.960 of the most helpful or one of the best source to to learn. And 140 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:07.799 then after that, one thing I always thought was if you if you know 141 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:15.000 other junior with you, you can do like a more ambitious project as two 142 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:20.879 people two people as all juniors, and you define all the what the app 143 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:26.240 we'll do, and it's kind of more complex, and you can use that 144 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:33.759 for your portfolio and to apply for jobs. I think that's that's I like 145 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:41.120 this. I really like the find a group mentality. Incidentally, I tell 146 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:46.200 experienced people to find their group, and a lot of people complain they can't 147 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.279 find a group. I'm actually starting when you can find a Ruby geniuses dot 148 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.120 com and you know, we get together week and talk about Ruby. It's 149 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.960 a new thing. So a small group, right, now, but anyway, 150 00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:00.240 Yeah, it's so important to be able to find people who you can 151 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:03.399 kind of bounce ideas off, we're about the same place as you and can 152 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.519 explain things to you, and who you can work on projects with. So 153 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:11.039 critical. All right, so I'm gonna ask the question again. So now 154 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:15.120 now it's for people like me. Right, So let's say I'm working at 155 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:20.960 a company and they hire that brand new developer, right, they hire Nathan 156 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:24.840 two years ago, and so you're walking in the door and yeah, you've 157 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.480 done some Ruby with your other things, but this is your first job. 158 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:39.519 What do I do to help you succeed? M hm, yes, So 159 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:52.559 I think, uh, one thing you must do is, yeah, one 160 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:58.960 thing you must do is well be there for for the junior when you askign 161 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:05.440 him really small tasks and you kind of feel how how long it takes, 162 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:13.559 And my I would I would say that let's let him struggle a little bit 163 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:20.200 so he learned a little better, and then once you're you're there to help, 164 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:28.000 it's gonna be much more beneficial that that would be me. But I 165 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:35.840 don't know if it's the same for other people. Yeah, that's that's kind 166 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:41.679 of the one of the first things that come to mind. Also also doing 167 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:50.759 per programming quite a lot. That that's that's essential, I think makes sense. 168 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.480 Is there anything that they didn't do for you that you wish they had 169 00:15:52.519 --> 00:16:00.600 done? Yes, there were no peer programming. Yeah, I bet, 170 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.960 I bet that really helps. I I'll just chime in on that one as 171 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:11.039 well. My first job, I was actually working with Nate Hopkins, who 172 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.879 used to be a host on this show, and I was I was like 173 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.720 brand new, and my Rails experience was at my previous job, I'd been 174 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.000 running the tech support department, right, so my job was actually to answer 175 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:26.840 the phones, answer emails, and manage all the other people that answered the 176 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:32.720 phones and the emails. But they wouldn't spend money on a system that, 177 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:37.320 you know, a ticketing system, and so I built it in Rails and 178 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.960 that that was my experience, right. So I come into this next job 179 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.559 and yeah, I probably spent half of my time pairing with Nate, and 180 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:51.320 I mean it's it's just immeasurable how much stuff I picked up from that. 181 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.200 I mean, there's just no way to know. And so yeah, I 182 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:57.879 I definitely feel that. I mean, I I still remember, I mean, 183 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:07.079 we're what what no seventeen years later something like that. And yeah, 184 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:11.440 I still look back on it eighteen years. It's been eighteen years, and 185 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.400 you know, it still was a highly formative thing that really helped me out. 186 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:22.000 Yeah, heavy plus one there. My first real rails gig was at 187 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.839 a small consultancy and I must have spent the first six months just pairing with 188 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:33.759 people yep. And like it's invaluable. Yeah, like you pick up stuff 189 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:40.680 that nobody would think to teach you. Yep. Yeah, I hadn't tested 190 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:44.920 at all, and I think I learned how to test and ruby my pair 191 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.640 program with people. Yep. You know, you do things, You learn 192 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:53.079 how to do things that you wouldn't normally want to do because of the you 193 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:57.119 know, fear of the unknown right where ye you know you don't know how 194 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:02.279 to do it, So why would you like necessarily like reach for it, 195 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:07.640 right, You wouldn't even think to reach for it? Yep, absolutely, 196 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.759 why did you do that? That's such a useful tool when you're programming, 197 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.960 Nathan, your background with like the kind of fuzzed out white It makes me 198 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:21.799 think of all the movies when someone goes to heaven. So you know, 199 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:30.680 is Montreal heaven? Yeah? There we go Yes, go ahead, Valentino, 200 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:34.160 I was gonna say, adding on to what you were talking about, 201 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:38.559 you know, asking the same question multiple ways. I feel like there's a 202 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:44.440 third way here too, in uh, you know, kind of like the 203 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:49.640 more experienced developers that are looking to take on more mentorship or maybe more managerial 204 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:57.400 positions or something like that. You know, like, how is there any 205 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:02.799 any ways that it could have been more helpful for like in that process of 206 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:07.000 either finding a mentor or like, was there something that did help you, 207 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:12.799 like kind of like because of mentorship of somebody, you know what I mean? 208 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:22.640 Yes, So for me, one of the first things that helped me 209 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:30.559 is called the First Ruby Friend. I think it's still up. It's it's 210 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:37.680 a website where you can sign up to either become a mentor or any junior 211 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:44.640 Rubis and or you can sign up to be a mentee. So I did 212 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:53.839 that and I was mentored by for six months by former Shopify employee, and 213 00:19:55.319 --> 00:20:02.240 it was very great experience. I learned a lot from him. And another 214 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:08.559 thing is if we're gone Wells comf or Ruby comf, you can also match 215 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:15.680 naturally, you know, you can find a mentor that way. And yeah, 216 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.519 but I think first we'll be friendy. He is really great and also 217 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:25.519 i'm a I'm recently a member of Agency of Learning. I don't know if 218 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:34.400 you heard of it. It's basically it's kind of a Ruby shop of self 219 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:42.039 motivated early career developers. So the way it's done is we hire by pairs 220 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:49.279 or one junior and there is also some seniors that lead the project that there 221 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:57.200 that are there for mentoring. And that's a really great group to really get 222 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:00.279 ahead. Because we are a group, we can also pair with each other 223 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:08.200 between junior, between senior or mid and that's I think that's a great group 224 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:18.880 if you want to advance in your managerial skills, mentoring skills, and as 225 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:25.839 a junior, well it's a great group where you can progress or learn more 226 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:32.559 for your career. So I think, yeah, that's that's a great place. 227 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:34.200 Yeah, that's cool. I hadn't heard of that one. Well, 228 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:40.000 what's been your favorite project you've worked on? Yeah, so there was that 229 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:48.359 project called the pair Up. So basically it's an application where where for pairing 230 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:59.119 or anything that goes within a software development environment, like there is a you 231 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:06.200 can put your stand up notes there and you know, as the lead he 232 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:10.839 can see all the stand up notes of everyone if anyone is stuck, So 233 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.480 it's kind of a think So it's great. And there is another feature for 234 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:23.160 hiring as well hiring people, and yeah, there were other features, but 235 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:29.240 on top of my head that that's the two things that was very interesting. 236 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:37.599 And also we do some open source work like with Ruby for good. I've 237 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:45.880 been contributing to the Castle projects. So yeah, it's very interesting. So, 238 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:52.519 yeah, I learned every day when I'm pairing with even with another junior, 239 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.400 sometimes he learns he learns something I don't know. Yeah, it's something 240 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.640 that's also I'm interested to know, Like, uh, how do you start 241 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.720 first? How do you know to get involved in these these things? Right? 242 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:12.000 And like how how do you get involved? Like what what does the 243 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:17.119 process for that look like? Is it like pretty straightforward? Like is there 244 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.480 a learning curve? You know? Is there is there some takeaways that you 245 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:25.720 can like suggest people, like have things set up to make this process easier? 246 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.759 Right? So one of the one of the first things to get aware 247 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:37.119 of the kind of opportunities for me is is social media LinkedIn and Twitter x. 248 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:47.279 That's that's where I get news. Can I can I ask real quick. 249 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:49.640 So you mentioned LinkedIn and Twitter and they're kind of used differently. Are 250 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:56.440 there specific groups that you found in LinkedIn or specific Twitter accounts? I think 251 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.480 I saw groups in Twitter now too, but yeah, where you looking? 252 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:07.480 Yeah, yeah, So for LinkedIn, there is some Ruby groups. I 253 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:11.680 think they are called I mean, if you go to groups the type ruby 254 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.920 on Wells, you can find. Yeah, I'm on like four groups, 255 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:22.680 like one called Ruby's some five thousand members Ruby on Wells. Yeah, we'll 256 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.559 be the other ones that just called ruby on Wells. And yeah, so 257 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:33.240 I get a lot of like programming tips or something going on. And yeah, 258 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:40.000 and also I add people on LinkedIn that are Rubies, so I get 259 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:48.559 my feet is really great for me, Like I get Rugby related posts a 260 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:56.079 lot. And for Twitter, I I guess I'm in some group big groups 261 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:03.759 on Twitter, but I never really checked it's there, But I never I 262 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.240 never gone there. I just go on for you page and I get I 263 00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:17.920 get some rub feed and I guess you should follow like the ruby page or 264 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.880 whatever, and you press like on any Ruby thing and then the algorithm will 265 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:30.440 show you will show you all the rubyists automatic and yeah, so that's the 266 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:38.079 first thing. And then specifically the Agency of Learning. So it's we are 267 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:45.000 hiring in batch. So there were one batch that was I don't know when 268 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:52.200 it was, but me I got like hired on November, I think. 269 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:57.920 And yeah, I don't know when the next one will be. But anyone 270 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.640 can apply, like if a senior or and the process is quite easy. 271 00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:11.599 Just apply and once you there, you a member. Then we have a 272 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:18.119 private discord channel where you can post, oh I want to pair or who 273 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:25.279 is available to pair? Yeah, and usually if there is a space project 274 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:32.920 we have there is a lead. That's that's we have like a a notion 275 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:38.599 where all the project requirements are are there and we can also we are free 276 00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:48.440 to also add to the notion like the specific picture. We can write design 277 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.960 documents. So yeah, it's really great. You can really expand your skill 278 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:57.559 in every way, not just a program. Hey there, this is Charles 279 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:00.640 max Wood. I'm excited because I wanted to let you know about this thing 280 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.720 that I pulled together that I had just I've been dying to have this for 281 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.680 years and I never felt like I could, and then I just realized that 282 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:11.720 there's no reason why I can't. So I'm putting together a book club and 283 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:17.400 we're going to read development focused books, career books, you know, technical 284 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.240 books, whatever. The first book that we're going to do is going to 285 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:23.839 be Clean Architecture by Uncle Bob Martin. If you're not familiar with clean code 286 00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:27.000 or some of the other stuff that Bob has done, check that out. 287 00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.839 I've also talked to him on the Clean Coders podcast, which is on Top 288 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.799 End Devs. But yeah, we're going to get on. He's going to 289 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:36.759 show up to some of our meetings. And what I'm thinking is we'll probably 290 00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:40.759 have like five or six people part of the conversation along with Bob and I 291 00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.880 at the same time, and we'll just so somebody can come on, they 292 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.359 can ask their question, and then we'll just rotate people through, so we'll 293 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.720 mute one person, unmute another person when it's their turn to come on and 294 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:56.759 be part of the discussion. So we'll do that for like an hour hour 295 00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:57.880 and a half. And then the other part of it that I'm putting together 296 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:03.960 is just kind of a meet and greet gather area on Gathertown. And so 297 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:07.519 after the meetup and the call, we we'll do as we'll all go over 298 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.640 to gather Town and you can just log in, walk up to a group 299 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:14.880 and have a conversation, and that way we can all kind of get to 300 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:18.319 know each other and make friends and get to know people across the world. 301 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.039 One thing that I'm finding is that, yeah, the meetups are starting to 302 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.839 come back, but a lot of people don't have the opportunity to go to 303 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:26.240 a meetup. And I really want to meet you guys and talk to you. 304 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.759 So we're gonna put all that together. We'll all be part of that 305 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:32.960 book club. You can go to topendevs dot com slash book Club to be 306 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:34.799 part of it, and I'm looking forward to seeing you there. The first 307 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:40.480 book club meeting will be in December, the beginning of December. We're starting 308 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:45.160 the first week of December, and you'll also be part of the conversation about 309 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.519 which book we do next. I have one in mind, but I want 310 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:53.680 to see where everybody's at. So there you go, very awesome. I'm 311 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:59.319 going to kind of take us on a little bit. So you've been programming 312 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:06.039 now for or a couple of years, and it seems like I run across 313 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:10.799 people fairly often who they get into their first or maybe their second development job 314 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:15.480 where they're still kind of new and they're kind of being brought up and taught 315 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:18.000 how to do what they do, and then what happens is they kind of 316 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.759 wind up feeling a little stuck right where it's Okay, I've learned everything I'm 317 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:27.279 gonna learn here, or you know what, they're never going to promote me 318 00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.880 because I'm always going to be the newbie, or you know, I just 319 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:37.039 want to try something different, or maybe there's something structural cultural at the company 320 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.160 and makes them want to think they want to move on, but they don't 321 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:41.599 feel like they can, right. They don't feel like they can apply, 322 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:47.839 they don't feel like there's an opportunity out there, or they don't even know 323 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.279 how to find that next gig. And so I'm curious, how did you 324 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.519 move from your first job where you were there for like six months and then 325 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:57.240 moved on? How did you move from there to wherever you're at now? 326 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.920 Yeah, actually that my first job. I didn't move. I'm still in 327 00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:11.680 it's just that I got kind of promoted. But yeah, I'm still on 328 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:19.160 the same but I'm kind of in that same same thing you just described. 329 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:30.440 So yeah, I mean it's kind of it's kind of weird position, but 330 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:40.200 I would say one thing I do that that's essential. I think so far 331 00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:45.680 is I just network? Because if I just apply to a job like that, 332 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:56.640 I don't know if it will be like ah, he's maybe two inexperience 333 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.680 or something. Or but if I talk to people, maybe they can say, 334 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:07.759 okay, I know this. I know that I could get some opportunities 335 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:14.799 just just by talking. But if I just go cold approach, it's harder. 336 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.440 It's a lot harder. The cold approach is a lot harder. I 337 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:25.920 think you brought up a good point though, of like I feel like early 338 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.400 on in your career, you think that you need to make this impression like 339 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.119 you know everything, or at least know enough where like you know you can 340 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:38.960 do everything by yourself, and you know, I feel like people hiring, 341 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:44.160 wait that goes away. I feel like people hiring don't want to know that 342 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:49.039 you can do everything right like they you know, we want to know that 343 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:53.160 you can't right like and that you're eager to learn what those things are. 344 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:57.759 And I know, personally, like I still have this problem too, like 345 00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:04.519 of trying to, you know, over compensate for not knowing everything because I 346 00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:07.559 want to know everything you know, and this is like a you know, 347 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:10.240 it never breaks in software, right, Like you're never going to break free 348 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:14.960 of this notion, right. But I feel like you make a good points, 349 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:17.680 like you know, you don't necessarily have to know all of it, 350 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.680 but having that conversation will highlight the things that you do know right in a 351 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:30.039 networking setting, And I feel like that's the most important part of like finding 352 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:35.640 your gig, because it'll align what your skill sets are and where it's going 353 00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.680 with what people need. Rather than just trying to say that you know everything 354 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.559 or trying to, you know, make it seem like it's something you're not. 355 00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:50.599 I feel like oftentimes people get placed improperly from just trying to, you 356 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:53.720 know, say that you know you can do it all. I know, 357 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.000 I've definitely gotten jobs, you know where I've been like, oh man, 358 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.319 I don't want to be doing this, you know, and it's like I 359 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:06.240 told him I could do it though, you know. Yeah. So like 360 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:12.799 I think setting expectations and definitely networking like that. Yeah, I completely hear 361 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:21.440 you on that. I'm curious. I wanted to shift the conversation a little 362 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:27.680 bit here toward like conferences and maybe meetups and things like that, because I'm 363 00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:31.200 interested to know kind of like your insight on where you know, what your 364 00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:37.599 opinions are on both like the Ruby conferences, rails conferences, and maybe even 365 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:42.960 like the local ones. Right Like you mentioned, you know, attending Montreal 366 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:47.160 RB. You know what value did you see out of each of those? 367 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:52.960 Right? Like did you see that one attending one of the events was better 368 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:57.279 than the other? Like was it important the timing in your career and what 369 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.559 you knew for each event? You know? Can you give us a little 370 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:07.599 insight on that? Yes? So, yeah, I think one of the 371 00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:15.039 main value I get from this is friendship. Uhh, that's another number one. 372 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:21.039 I get to know people and I try to like every time, for 373 00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:25.280 example, I go to Montreal RB and then once we add each other on 374 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:31.719 LinkedIn or whatever, I try to keep a conversation after this is the meet 375 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:37.000 up, right Montreal A, yeah for the meet up, And I tried 376 00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:45.000 to even for I think Ruby comp or webs comp, I did the same 377 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:49.639 like, oh, nice to meet you, it was nice to see you, 378 00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:53.679 blah blah blah. Yeah, So that's one of the first value. 379 00:34:53.880 --> 00:35:00.679 But of course I learned a lot from the prince presentation, and that's that's 380 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:05.480 really great. I learned more about the philosophy of the framework, use the 381 00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:10.400 language, and something I never knew was possible. That's that's really great. 382 00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:17.079 But I think the number one is really the friendship I make. And like 383 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:23.239 just an example on Montreal at rb I So, okay, I met for 384 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:31.239 some friends and then like seven months after I get an opportunity, like like 385 00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:37.519 a small opportunity. It was enup. I had to have the bug and 386 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:42.920 I got paid for like three hour work or whatever. So you know, 387 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:50.039 that's that's great and I never expected it's just because I knew someone and knew 388 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:54.119 me, that's awesome. And so I'm curious, like whether were there any 389 00:35:54.199 --> 00:36:00.039 barriers to entry for for either, like did you find like, was it 390 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:05.880 was it easy to attend? As an example, rubycom for Rails comp whichever 391 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.920 you you did attend, Uh, was was it easy to do? And 392 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:14.559 like was it did you find it difficult to meet people or or connect? 393 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:20.519 Uh? You know what was that? Like? Yeah? Actually for the 394 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:29.360 rest comp, I was I got a free sponsor sponsorship tickets. I just 395 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:37.840 again Twitter, right, I saw someone was offering I like that's awesome. 396 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:45.000 Yeah, I just missage, hey, like that that person was offering for 397 00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:52.840 early career junior and so I was like, hey, I'm new, can 398 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:57.559 you offer me a hit? And he offered me no problem. So that 399 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:05.119 that was very nice and yeah, and that that was the online that one 400 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:13.239 two, So it kind of pushed you to meet people through that networking thing 401 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:22.440 online. As far as party, I didn't attend yet any like yah in 402 00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:29.119 person rast COMT maybe I would go to Real's World just in Canada, So 403 00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:37.719 I have to go ye in Toronto and we'll go make friends there in person, 404 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:46.159 yes, absolutely. And as far as Montreal a derby I the first 405 00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:52.639 time, I think it kind of feels at the beginner, maybe you can 406 00:37:52.719 --> 00:38:00.880 feel intimidated like everyone is so expert, you know, but I said, 407 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:09.159 no one is judging or anything. Everyone's welcoming. So yeah, it's fine 408 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:17.440 for me. I don't have I don't have these kind of fears. I 409 00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:25.840 just go a let's make friends and yeah, but yeah, it goes through 410 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.760 my mind like, oh that's so they're so expert. How can I contribute 411 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:37.320 to that conversation? So yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, I feel 412 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.119 that pain. I remember my first honestly, I've only ever been to one 413 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.840 reels COMPI it was early in my career. Oh really, Oh yeah, 414 00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:50.599 I've spoken at it at least two or three times. I want to say 415 00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:55.320 twenty twelve or eleven. It was when it was in Baltimore. I didn't 416 00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.599 go to that one, okay, Yeah, I mean I just remember going 417 00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:02.760 and being just like like you said, very overwhelmed with, you know, 418 00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:08.039 not being able to contribute to any conversation or what was happening. And you 419 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:12.360 know, as i've as I've grown to know the community more, I feel 420 00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:16.079 like it's you know, it's more welcoming than it appears on the surface. 421 00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:21.320 And I know that the conference has changed a lot and they're a lot more 422 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.960 welcoming to newcomers. And I feel like when they ask it, you know, 423 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:29.639 they always ask at the conference, who's new, who's this first time? 424 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.559 Right? And there's so many with hands now, and that's so great. 425 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.440 Yeah. So I'm kind of excited to go to a conference again now, 426 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.320 all right and just see how it's changed and meet some newcomers, right, 427 00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:46.599 like make them feel welcome. And you know, but I do feel 428 00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:52.039 your pain, you know, how do you contribute to the conversations? And 429 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:55.400 really the answer is like just just talk about it. Talk about what you 430 00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:59.599 know or what you want to know, and people are they really love to, 431 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.440 you know, talk about what you know what's happening, And to be 432 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:08.280 honest, it's really great if you do know you know all these things and 433 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:13.079 you know that you've learned over the years. It's like a great way to 434 00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.760 like break it down in simple ways, right, Like that's one of the 435 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.480 best ways to learn it better is to be able to say it in simple 436 00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:22.599 terms, right, Like sure, chat GBD can do so much, right, 437 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:27.280 but uh, you know, do it on your own. You know 438 00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:32.480 it Definitely it helps your brain like learn it even more for sure. But 439 00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:39.559 I'm curious, liked, did the conference offer anything specifically that you remember where 440 00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.519 you were Like, oh, yeah, I've got to come back to a 441 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:50.639 conference for this mm. Yeah, so definitely please. The west COM that 442 00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:55.599 I attended was like really great, and I really want to meet more people 443 00:40:55.760 --> 00:41:04.719 and learn more. I the those conferences from twenty twenty three. I watched 444 00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:07.360 online, but you know, I watched the content online, but it's really 445 00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:15.199 not the same. I learned the content for sure, but that pushed me 446 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:22.599 to go back and meet more people and learn more from people. And yeah, 447 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:30.679 like just watching a YouTube conference. It's really nuts. The same. 448 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:39.960 Yeah, I'll admit I remember attending Rails camp there was Lightning talks, which 449 00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:44.320 I had never heard about before. But basically, anybody can get on stage 450 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:47.599 and just like give like a one to two minute like presentation of whatever they 451 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:54.960 want, right, and it's great. I yeah, But just small takeaways 452 00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:00.079 from that, Like this guy, Corey Haynes Is he used to be very 453 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:06.360 average years. Oh man, he's great. He has the four Simple Rules 454 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.639 of Design, which are like a great book if you if you ever want 455 00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:13.920 to read that, but he gets He came up on stage and what you 456 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.920 know, just like ran his entire test suite with with like thousands of tests. 457 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:22.800 I was and it like ran in like a second or two, and 458 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:25.719 it was just like He's just like, you know, you don't have to 459 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.039 uh you know, your test suite doesn't have to take minutes to run. 460 00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:36.480 And then that was like, yeah, that's the stage, right, And 461 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:39.119 it eventually became a thing like he did some follow up on it, but 462 00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:45.119 I never forget like yeah, like and uh, you know, his his 463 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.280 key thing was, well, you don't load the entire Rails application for every 464 00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:52.800 test while right, which has pros and cons but like you don't hit the 465 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:57.760 database if you don't need to things, right. But it definitely was a 466 00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:00.840 key takeaway for me. Uh and even still to this day, I think 467 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:05.199 about it like, you know, of thinking more about why the things are 468 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.440 happening, right, and like I feel like when you get started with like 469 00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:13.480 a framework in general, like reels, it's easy to like overlook the questions 470 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:16.079 to ask because it does so many things for you behind the scenes, right, 471 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.480 And that really opened up my mind. Oh, like I could just 472 00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:22.079 ask this question and like figure it out, like uh. And that was 473 00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:28.199 definitely like a key takeaway for me from from just a lightning talk right two 474 00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:34.800 minutes. Right. But so I'm curious now, like for like the smaller 475 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:39.920 meetups that it's got like a much more personal setting. You know, do 476 00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:47.079 you find like that you get more specific content, like what what value differentiating 477 00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:51.760 from like a conference. Would you say that like something like a local meetup 478 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:58.639 offers that maybe you wouldn't get from a conference. Hmm, yeah, I 479 00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:05.039 think local media up you can always well, first of all, one of 480 00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:08.960 the first things you can always meet again with someone, like in a cafe 481 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:16.639 or something like for example, I I made friends with the CEO of one 482 00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:24.199 small startup and one time I had some question with for him. So we 483 00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:30.519 went to eat in a cafe and that was great. That's one thing And 484 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:44.400 the other thing you mentioned lightning talks. Sometimes we do jam gem. I 485 00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:51.079 forgot the naming of it. But it's like like basically, you have to 486 00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:55.000 share a gem that was useful to you, Okay, so kind of like 487 00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:02.920 everyone Yeah so everyone, Hm, I can share, right. So sometimes 488 00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:08.079 there were even someone that just came out of a boot camp got to present 489 00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:17.599 uh what's the name form? Uh? You know that gem on rails for 490 00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:24.800 the form with or I don't, I don't, I don't know. Yeah, 491 00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:30.800 that's one. So he got to present that jam and and then me, 492 00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:35.400 I, I think I don't remember what I Yeah, I shared the 493 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:43.679 jam where lets you find one queries? So that that was interesting. So 494 00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:51.199 but the other times, I sometimes I feel like I don't I don't want 495 00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:57.199 to share anything. I'm scared, I don't want to answer the question. 496 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:06.039 So yeah, but that's that's an advantage where you can have an opportunity to 497 00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:13.760 share something brand new. Yeah. I want to just chime in on that 498 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.079 for a second, because yeah, I talked to new people and they're like, 499 00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:22.199 I don't have anything to share that everybody doesn't already know. And when 500 00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:27.000 I was pretty new to the my development career, I would go to the 501 00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:30.599 Utah Ruby meet up. And it was funny because we had one in Utah 502 00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:34.960 County, one in Salt Lake County, one in downtown. I think there 503 00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:37.639 was one up in Cash County anyway, so you could go to four or 504 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:43.360 five of them in the state. But I would go, and especially at 505 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:46.719 the Salt Lake one, they usually have a short talk on something that was 506 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:52.079 pretty fundamental and so a primmer, and so I would do the primmers like 507 00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.960 every other month, even though I was new. And what was funny was 508 00:46:57.039 --> 00:47:00.079 that I would go. I would cover it thoroughly enough to where there was 509 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:04.920 always something in there, and it wasn't because I was trying to. It 510 00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:07.480 was just, you know, I had five minutes and sort of fill the 511 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:12.440 five minutes. I covered everything about strings or whatever I was talking about, 512 00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:16.239 you know, or you know the HT one of the http HDTV party. 513 00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:20.400 But I would cover something and i'd have one of the senior guys come up 514 00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:24.400 afterward and say, I didn't know it did that and the other thing is 515 00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:28.239 is that in order to prepare it be able to speak to it for five 516 00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:31.480 minutes, I had to really learn it. And so if you're new and 517 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:35.760 you're going to a meetup, volunteer to speak, you know, just raise 518 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:37.400 your hand. I mean even if you raise your hand and you say, 519 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.440 hey, look I'm going to talk about the device GEM and I'm going to 520 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:44.440 cover it for five minutes. That's all I have. That's all I can 521 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:49.000 manage to do. They will take you because the meetup organizers is appreciate it 522 00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:53.000 because then they don't have to go find somebody to fill time. They don't 523 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:58.400 have to fill the time, and you you'll learn something. And I promise 524 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.880 they're going to people there who are going I didn't know that that was even 525 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:08.920 a thing. That's a really great yeah. Uh. I helped run a 526 00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:15.159 very small ruby UH meet up in UH in Pennsylvania, UH for the Lehigh 527 00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:20.880 Valley and UH. I think we had like maybe two people come a night 528 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:24.599 or sometimes three, but we would run it either way. It was with 529 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:29.320 work and UH. You know, people would come and like you would get 530 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:32.400 requests for once in a while, like as an example, like ah, 531 00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:37.039 and I mean this isn't somebody new, but it was it wasn't even Ruby. 532 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:45.760 It was that there's a what power Spotify was the Echo Nest and this 533 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:51.800 like lead developer that like made the Echo nests like came in and gave a 534 00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:58.280 presentation on how like math works with music really great and you can like extract 535 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:04.039 things from sound and it was like wild and so like you know, like 536 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:07.199 but as an organizer, you're like, yeah, like sure, it's not 537 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:10.880 about Ruby, right, it's not you know, it wasn't anything I knew 538 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:14.960 about, but like, you know, it was great. Like we had 539 00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:19.719 actually like a lot of people show up that we weren't expecting for that night, 540 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:23.199 and h we we didn't have to think about the content and like yeah, 541 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:30.480 it's like for sure, like you know, if if you want to 542 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.760 give a talk or provide any like content, you know, for a meeting, 543 00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.800 it is just super helpful to have that like come to you as a 544 00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:47.039 maintainer, right, Like that's right, I didn't I thought this way, 545 00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:54.039 but actually it's really great. Like you said, we prepared something like device 546 00:49:54.320 --> 00:50:00.360 or just something everyone knows, but you present very well. That's going to 547 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:07.360 be grateful the for everyone. Actually, yep, I'm gonna do that next 548 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:12.760 time. Good deal, do it. Do it. It's awesome. It's 549 00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:15.760 also if you want to speak at conferences. It's a really good way to 550 00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:19.119 get your foot in the door, right even if you don't know if you 551 00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:21.440 want to, but hey, that might be interesting. I want to try 552 00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:23.679 it. It's a good way to figure out if it's kind of a thing 553 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:29.840 that you'll enjoy. So all right, Well we're kind of getting toward the 554 00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:35.480 hour, so I'm I'm curious before we do our picks, Nathan, if 555 00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:38.280 people want to connect with you on LinkedIn and Twitter or anywhere else, how 556 00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:45.039 do they find you online? Yes, so I have a website. It's 557 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:52.840 called Nate Bell. So that's yeah. So Nate Bell b e l l 558 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:59.400 do's a and LinkedIn. I'm Nathan below, so Nathan, and below is 559 00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:07.519 thee at LW. And Twitter is a not blow Twitter dot com that slash 560 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:15.280 not blow n ATVL. Awesome. All right, Well let's do some pics. 561 00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:19.679 Have you ever wished that you had a group of people that were just 562 00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:22.039 as passionate about writing code as you are? I know I did. I 563 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:24.920 did that for most of my career. I'd go to the meetups I try 564 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:29.880 and create other opportunities, and it was just really hard, right the meetups. 565 00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:31.280 I got some of that, but they were only like once or twice 566 00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:35.159 a month, and it was just really hard to find that group of people 567 00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:38.079 that I connected with and really wanted to, you know, talk about code 568 00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:42.000 a lot, right, I mean, I love writing code. I think 569 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:47.039 it's the best. And so I've decided to create this community and create a 570 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:51.039 worldwide community that we can all jump in and do it. So we're going 571 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:54.079 to have two workshops every week. One of those or two of those every 572 00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:57.639 month are going to be Q and A calls right where you can get on 573 00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.320 you can ask me or me and another expert quest questions. The rest of 574 00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:06.119 them are going to be focused on different aspects of career or programming or things 575 00:52:06.199 --> 00:52:09.360 like that. Right, So it'll go anywhere from like deployments and containers all 576 00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:14.960 the way up to managing your four oh one K and negotiating your benefits package. 577 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:16.800 Well, we'll cover all of it, okay. And then we're also 578 00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:22.000 going to have meetups every month for your particular technology area. So we have 579 00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:24.920 shows about JavaScript, React, angular view and so on. We're going to 580 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.039 have meetups for all of those things. I'm going to revive the Freelancer Show. 581 00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:31.719 We'll have one about that right so you can get started freelancing or continue 582 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:37.119 freelancing if that's where you're at. And I'm working on finding authors who can 583 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:43.639 actually do weekly video tutorials on some thing for ten minutes that's related again to 584 00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:46.039 those technology areas, so that you can stay current, keep growing. So 585 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:51.880 if you're interested, go to topendevs dot com slash sign up and you can 586 00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:55.519 get in right now for thirty nine dollars. When we're done, that price 587 00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:59.960 is going to go up to seventy five dollars. At the thirty nine dollars 588 00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:06.800 price gets you access to two calls per week. The full price at one 589 00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:08.840 hundred and fifty dollars, which is going to be seventy five dollars over the 590 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:13.519 next few weeks. That price is going to get you access to all of 591 00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:16.280 the calls and all of the tutorials and everything else that we put out from 592 00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:21.960 top endevs, along with member pricing for our remote conferences that are coming up 593 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.119 next year. So go check it out topendevs dot com slash sign up. 594 00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:34.760 Valentino, you want to do us some picks? Sure, Yeah, in 595 00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:37.199 case you haven't picked up yet on all my ramblings, I'm very much into 596 00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:40.840 AI at this point. I just I do it for fun, I do 597 00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:45.960 it for work now I just have way too much fun with it. But 598 00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:54.440 I got maybe a ridiculous at home server from these folks at Steger Dynamics that 599 00:53:54.639 --> 00:54:00.239 just has several GPUs in it, and very much looking forward to getting that 600 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:07.199 set up and training my own models, hopefully to make a Ruby specific one 601 00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:13.480 just just for fun. What kind of AI projects are you going to do? 602 00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:16.800 Well? I want to play with making, you know, fine tune 603 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:23.559 models on open source lllms. So it seems very easy to do at this 604 00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:28.280 point, like a lot of the infra has already established, and you just 605 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:30.960 like set up and install your own doctor containers and as long as you have 606 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:37.599 your GPUs configured right with Python, it'll just like let you train what you 607 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:42.079 want based on some open data sets. So I have some open data sets 608 00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:45.880 I've been eyeing for training purposes, and I just want to see, you 609 00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.880 know, how it all works and what I can make out of it. 610 00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:53.039 But I want to start, like I know a lot of the good like 611 00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:59.519 Ruby design, like gems that I would like draw from and so i'd like 612 00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:04.119 to see, Okay, if I like feeded a bunch of GitHub repos with 613 00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.559 well designed Ruby, you know, how well will it generate the Ruby responses? 614 00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:12.760 Because I feel like for chat, GBT or like a lot of these 615 00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:16.920 you know, non open models, it's like it's very hard to get it 616 00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:22.360 this the output that you want out of it without like massaging it a little 617 00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.800 bit. And so I want to see maybe if a fine tune version of 618 00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:32.400 it could help. Nice. All right, I'm gonna throw in my picks 619 00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:36.639 next. First of all, I just want to point out that we've had 620 00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:40.360 fifty seven people watching us on Twitter and one on Twitch. So the loaner 621 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.159 on Twitch, way to go. The people on Twitter, welcome aboard. 622 00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:49.519 It's good to see you. I'm gonna jump in with. I always do 623 00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:52.199 to board game pick first, so if you're into board games, that's kind 624 00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:57.039 of my jam. And last weekend I actually went to a board game convention 625 00:55:57.239 --> 00:56:01.639 in Davis County, Utah's just north of Lake in Layton called salt Con, 626 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:07.320 and they're doing another event same location in June, So if you want to 627 00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:10.360 go to that, you might see me there hanging out with my Buddies and 628 00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:15.480 playing games. One of the games I played at the convention is called Challengers, 629 00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:21.400 and Challengers is a card game. So if you've played war right, 630 00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:23.920 where you just have a deck of cards, just deal out the deck to 631 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:27.679 both players and then you flip cards, whoever has the highest card wins, 632 00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:30.639 right, and then you win ties by putting out more cards. Well, 633 00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:36.320 this is kind of like that, except so you start with the base set. 634 00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:37.639 Everybody has a base set of cards and a play up to eight people, 635 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:42.159 which is awesome because most games, you know, the bigger games will 636 00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:45.800 go up to six, five or six, So going up to eight is 637 00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:49.320 nice because I can like get my whole family playing and stuff. So what 638 00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:52.119 you do is you take your base set and then they have eight cards, 639 00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:54.679 B cards and see cards, and so you draw five A cards and then 640 00:56:54.679 --> 00:57:00.280 it'll let you put two of them in your hand or into your deck, 641 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:06.239 and then you play basically this game with your deck, and once you've stacked 642 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:08.960 up enough cards to beat the top card of the other play right. So 643 00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:13.360 if they have a three on top of their stack, then you you know, 644 00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:16.199 one, one, one, three, three, you know, you 645 00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:20.800 take the flag and then they take all their cards. And they put them 646 00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:23.440 on their bench, and the bench has six spots. So once their bench 647 00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:27.400 is full, if they can't put another card on their bench and they need 648 00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:29.360 to, they lose, or if they run out of cards, they lose, 649 00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:32.000 same with you, right, And so it's kind of this balance game 650 00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:36.599 between do I have enough cards to keep going if I have to, but 651 00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:39.239 do I have too many cards to where it's going to fill on my bench? 652 00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:42.480 And you can double up the same cards, right, so if you 653 00:57:42.519 --> 00:57:45.840 have three of the same kind of card, you start with three newcomers, 654 00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:49.079 I think is what they are. And so those ones, those newcomers, 655 00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:51.880 you can stack them up on your bench so that they only take one spot. 656 00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:57.559 But anyway, that's the whole game. And they have little cards that 657 00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:00.480 tell you who you're playing against, so you know, it'll have a purple 658 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:04.559 row and then the yellow row and then a green row and then right and 659 00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:08.960 so anyway, so it was really fun. I played it last night with 660 00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:13.119 my uh my buddies as well. Right, there were just four of us. 661 00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:16.639 We just you know, played played for a while. And anyway, 662 00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:22.719 so I'm gonna pick challengers. Board game Geek has a weight on it of 663 00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:27.239 one point seven to seven, which means it is relatively easy to pick up, 664 00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:34.039 and it has an explanation point on the end of it if you're wondering 665 00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:37.400 if that's the right one. And I'm putting links in the comments on Twitch 666 00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:45.239 and Facebook and YouTube. But yeah, anyway, really had a good time 667 00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:47.679 with that, so I'm gonna pick that. And then, as I mentioned, 668 00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:51.599 I'm getting the Ruby Geniuses going right now. I wasn't gonna mention it 669 00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:53.239 until I had everything up, but it kind of got mentioned. So go 670 00:58:53.280 --> 00:59:00.320 to rubygeniuses dot com probably next week as we record, so if you're listening 671 00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:04.400 to it on the recording, it's probably out. You can come join us. 672 00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.079 We're going to have a call every week talking about something with Ruby. 673 00:59:08.199 --> 00:59:12.159 I'm going to be inviting people who are guests on the show and things like 674 00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:15.599 that. We'll have conversations and then we're going to have kind of a social 675 00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:20.280 like every third or fourth week. We're going to have more where we just 676 00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:22.519 come on and get to know each other better so that hey, I'm looking 677 00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:27.039 for a job, well okay, we're hiring, or you know, hey, 678 00:59:27.079 --> 00:59:30.199 I'm trying to figure out the ployments with comell oh, well I've done 679 00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:31.880 that here, let me help you out right. It's just a little bit 680 00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:37.159 more personalized that way. So, I mean, and that's really the run 681 00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:42.159 of it. You'll get premium access to a couple of other things, but 682 00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:45.320 that's it. And then the other thing I'm setting up this week is premium 683 00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:51.559 Ruby Rogues without the ads, and so if you want to join the Ruby 684 00:59:51.639 --> 00:59:54.000 Rogue Supporters Club, there'll be a link, or you can just go to 685 00:59:54.119 --> 00:59:59.000 Ruby rogues dot com slash premium. Again. This will be up next week. 686 00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:04.360 I'm literally cutting things over today, but yeah, so go check those 687 01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:08.079 out, all right, Nathan, what are your picks? Yes, so 688 01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:15.199 my first pick is actually a bullet train. I'm building some science application and 689 01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:23.760 that's what I'm using. This really has been great for me. And yeah, 690 01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:31.159 that's that's my first pick, and the other picks those I mentioned before. 691 01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:37.400 So just for everyone, if you go on first ruby friend dot org 692 01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:43.800 for any willing mentor or we want to be mentored, you go to first 693 01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:47.920 rub befriend dot org. And yeah, yeah, I look at bullet Trained. 694 01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:51.599 I've heard some people talk about it and really love it, and I've 695 01:00:51.639 --> 01:00:55.199 heard some people complain about some aspects of it. So maybe we should get 696 01:00:55.199 --> 01:01:02.320 somebody from them to come on and talk ods. But that's very that fays 697 01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:08.239 good. All right, Well we'll go ahead and wrap it up until next 698 01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:14.360 time, folks max out. H m hmm