WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:14.960 This week's trip cast is sponsored by ut Arlington's commitment to excellence keeps Texas strong 2 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:20.559 with highly skilled graduates for the Texas workforce and life changing research. Find out 3 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:28.719 more at UTA dot edu and Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. Delivering quality 4 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:35.240 healthcare to underserved areas throughout Texas by expanding vital telehealth services. Learn more at 5 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:52.240 Telehealth for Texas dot Com. Hello and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast 6 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:56.200 for May twenty six, twenty twenty three. It is the end of a 7 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:02.000 crazy day, a crazy week, and a crazy month, and politics culminating 8 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:07.280 yesterday with the House General Investigating Committee disclosing that it had recommended the impeachment of 9 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:12.959 Attorney General Ken Paxton. Twenty articles of impeachment delivered to the Texas House yesterday. 10 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:17.239 They have been distributed in the House, revealing today that they're expecting to 11 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:22.560 vote on impeachment at one pm today. A major kind of earth shattering week 12 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:26.680 in Texas politics. Joining us today to discuss this our politics Reporter Patrick speetech 13 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.120 Hey, Patrick, Hey, thanks for having me, Yeah, thanks for 14 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:34.680 joining. And politics reporter James Bettergan Hey, James Hey, Matthew, Hey, 15 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:38.959 it's James, So walk us through this twenty articles of impeachment. How 16 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:42.359 did we get here and what is Kim Paxton accused of? Well, it's 17 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.879 as you said, it's been a stunning week here in the Texas House, 18 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:51.359 starting on Tuesday when the General Investigating Committee revealed to the public that they had 19 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:57.239 been investigating Attorney General Kent Paxton since March four crimes that were alleged by the 20 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.840 whistleblowers in twenty twenty some of his top deputies who accused him of crimes. 21 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:08.240 That investigation went beyond even what the whistleblowers alleged and even touched on his previous 22 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:15.199 securities fraught charges from twenty fifteen, which are still ongoing. It stretched into 23 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:21.439 a potential two property homestead exemptions rather than just a one allowed by Texas law. 24 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:24.560 And now we have the twenty articles of impeachment against Ken Paxson that have 25 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:30.719 been recommended by the Committee to the House. And that is where we are 26 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:35.280 on the precipice of this really historic moment on Saturday. He would be the 27 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:42.400 first Attorney general to sit for impeachment if indeed House lawmakers decide to push that 28 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:46.759 forward to the Senate. So a kind of new revelation coming from the committee 29 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:53.319 about Pason having two home set exemptions. A you know, something that is 30 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.960 against the law, not legal, but also maybe not the highest in the 31 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.680 ranking of Ken Packson scandal. You know, something we've seen before. Governor 32 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:06.120 Rick Perry had this problem once before as well, back in the day when 33 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:08.520 he was running for governor. But um, you know, some of these 34 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:12.599 other things are things that we've already known about, particularly what was laid out 35 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:19.879 by the whistleblowers, allegations of bribery, inappropriate relationship with donors, kind of 36 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:24.280 interfering with some of the duties of the AG's office, perhaps to tip the 37 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:30.199 hand for Nate Paul, one of his not perhaps they're they're they're accusing that 38 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:35.719 they're accusing him of abusing the Attorney General's office to benefit his friend and political 39 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:39.000 donor in Nate Paul, right, right, Patrick. All of those things 40 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:44.840 we have known about since twenty twenty one, the last time the legislature met. 41 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:50.599 Why why is this happening now? Well, it depends who you ask. 42 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:54.199 According to House leadership, this was all triggered by Paxton's requests of the 43 00:03:54.280 --> 00:04:00.080 legislature to authorize taxpair of dollars to pay for that settlement with the whistleblowers, 44 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.919 you know. In fact, and the memo, the latest memo that we 45 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:08.360 saw from the General Investigating Committee, uh, you know, there was a 46 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:13.479 bolded sentence in it that said, you know, we cannot emphasize enough that 47 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.839 this impeachment wouldn't be happening if Paxson had not asked the legislature, um, 48 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:21.839 you know for these uh this taxpayer funded settlement. So that is that is 49 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:27.759 their explanation. You know. The Speaker's office has said that when Paxson came 50 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:30.120 to the legislature earlier this year to ask for that settlement, he did not 51 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:36.079 provide enough evidence or support um for his need for the state funds for that 52 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:40.279 settlement. So that's their side of the story. Of course, if you're 53 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:44.759 with Paxton, you know, or even if you're on the fence, you 54 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:48.079 know, you can't help, but you know, acknowledge the political context here, 55 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.720 which is that Ken Paxton represents um you know, comes from a wing 56 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:58.759 of the Texas Republican Party that is persistently critical the Texas House, constantly dogging 57 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.279 it as insufficient conservative. You know, Ken Paxxton and his you know, 58 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:06.279 doesn't do that, you know, every day in his you know, job 59 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:12.040 as Attorney General. But there's no doubt where his bread is buttered and what 60 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.399 kind of faction of the Republican Party in Texas he comes from. And so 61 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:20.439 you know, to his supporters, you know, this reeks of political retaliation 62 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:25.480 because he comes from that part of the party and he feels he feeled those 63 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:30.480 speculations on Tuesday, prior to the committee's meeting, when he put out a 64 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:36.319 message sort of accusing Speaker Feeling of being intoxicated on the diet, which is 65 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.800 a thing that had been sort of floating around. And then right after that, 66 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.720 then that's when the Committee's sort of made public that actually it's an investigation 67 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:49.480 about you, and perhaps that's why you're trying to create the smokescreen. Yeah, 68 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:54.680 that the allegation of Feeling being intoxicated of coming from a video from you 69 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:57.399 know, a few days earlier. We're Feeling, at the end of a 70 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:00.759 very long day presiding over the House, seemed to be slurring his speech. 71 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:06.040 Many people in the kind of hard right we're jumping on that video saying that 72 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:12.800 he seemed like he was drunk that calling for Feeling to resign, which you 73 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:15.120 know, that was right before we knew what was about to happen in the 74 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.800 General Investigating Committee was its own sort of dramatic event. But I mean, 75 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:23.879 James, what we have here is kind of you know, Republicans going after 76 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.560 Republicans. Here. This is not a Democratic House impeaching a Republican president. 77 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.839 This is a Republican controlled House going after a Republican attorney general. Yeah. 78 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:36.920 And just for the record for listeners and our audience, we have asked persistently 79 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:42.000 that question about date, feeling and whether he was drunk, and we just 80 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.240 have not been able to get an answer, I think from from the Speaker's 81 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.399 office. So those questions have been made. I know there's there's there is 82 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:53.360 obviously concerned from some people about what that was there. But to your point, 83 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.800 Matthew, yes, I mean this is a continuation of the in fighting 84 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:02.560 between Republicans, the more conservative social far right wing of the party and the 85 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:10.120 more establishment Republican that has been in some oderation really for the last decade or 86 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:14.199 so, I think, and that is what we're seeing. But I think 87 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.839 to Patrick's point, you know, the House is saying, well, we 88 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:21.480 started this investigation because of the settlement. I don't, you know. I 89 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:25.639 guess we take them at face value. But for me, like politically, 90 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.519 I just don't understand why they wouldn't have been able to do this kind of 91 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.439 investigation before. I mean, these allegations by the whistleblowers were known since twenty 92 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:40.160 twenty, the securities fraud charges were known since twenty fifteen, so I mean 93 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.600 there was plenty of room for them to work with before the General Investigating Committee 94 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.040 could have taken that up. I guess, But yeah, that that part 95 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.720 has sort of got myself and I think another a lot of other reporters and 96 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:54.720 perhaps some people in the public started scratching their head about like what's different? 97 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:57.519 Why? Why? Why now? Yeah? And also, James, you 98 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.720 mentioned that the securities fraud charges are part of the articles of impeachment, and 99 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:07.639 so the idea that the articles impeachment are exclusively centered on the whistleblower claims is 100 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.480 you know, you know, exclusively prompted or centered on the whistleblower claims, 101 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:15.759 which are totally separate from the securities broad charges. That's kind of debunked by 102 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.439 the fact that the the you know, articles of impeachment are are broader than 103 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:24.839 the whistleblower claims, and they do encompass articles related to those years old securities 104 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.360 broad charges. So, um, you know, but this is the explanation 105 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.759 we've gotten from the House. Of course, there's no doubt that there are 106 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:35.440 you know, uh, when handling something like this, Um, there are 107 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.720 all kinds of political considerations in terms of how you structure at the pacing, 108 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.879 what you decide to go public with. UM. So you know, of 109 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.120 course, the you know, House leadership is not you know, pure as 110 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:48.080 the driven snow here when it comes to you know, bringing um. So 111 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:52.679 you know, that's that that needs to be said. Impeachment, as many 112 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:56.000 people have noted, is is ultimately a political act, local process, right, 113 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.320 you know. And one kind of phrase we have been hearing and I 114 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:03.080 think will continue to be hearing is forgiveness doctrine. Right this this idea that 115 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.879 you know, a a aid to Paxton kind of brought up that you can't 116 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:13.879 be impeached for actions that happened after the most I mean sorry, before the 117 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:18.240 most recent election. All of these things were known to the voters in twenty 118 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.919 twenty two. The voters had choices. They could have elected one of three 119 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.840 other Republican primary opponents of Ken Paxton. They could have elected a Democrat in 120 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:33.240 the general election. They chose not to do that. And so the question 121 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.799 being A, is it appropriate, you know, setting aside the law to 122 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:41.399 kind of, you know, as as paxson supporters have said, undo the 123 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:43.559 will of the voters. And B is it legal? You know, is 124 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:50.360 there kind of precedent to suggest that they should only be punishing him for things 125 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.720 afterwards? You know, we don't know whether there will be legal challenges, 126 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.559 you know, we should say. We're recording this at a little bit after 127 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:01.799 three o'clock on Friday. Ken Paxson has not spoken publicly. He released a 128 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.879 statement, but he is giving a press conference at four o'clock today and we 129 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:07.440 might hear more about that. But I mean, I think a lot of 130 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:13.639 questions still being raised about the House's processes and procedures and all this. Yeah, 131 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.279 and the House tried to address this in their memo, right Patrick. 132 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:20.039 I mean they said that this quote unquote forgiveness doctrine that they've thrown around. 133 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:26.159 The Attorney General's office also has to be said sent a lawyer to the General 134 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.679 Investigative the committee saying, hey, I want to testify we should have our 135 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:37.000 fair say in this process, and then argued to reporters because he was not 136 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:43.480 allowed to testify, that the investigation was illegal and that impeachment of an elected 137 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:52.480 official is limited to alleged crimes made before they were elected in office. But 138 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:56.679 I think they stretched that to say the last election is what they said. 139 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.000 We've looked at the statue and it says limited crimes or office. Of course, 140 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:05.519 the House has said that doesn't apply here, and they've shown their precedent 141 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:09.679 here, so I don't know. You know, the Attorney General has not 142 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:16.519 been afraid of shall I say, novel legal theories, so I would not 143 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:22.159 be surprised if there was some type of legal argument. In fact, as 144 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.879 we're recording, there's a press conference scheduled for later today, so we'll have 145 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.480 to see what they say. But yeah, a lot of moving parts to 146 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.120 this happening right now. All right, let's pause for a him and hear 147 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:37.399 from our sponsors. Lone Star College works for Texas providing real world workforce training 148 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:43.120 in state of the art facilities to meet employers demands. Learn more at lone 149 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:50.919 Star dot edu. And nearly four thousand BP employees work to deliver energy in 150 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:56.480 Texas. Learn more about our Investment in America at BP dot com slash investing 151 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:01.320 in America. All right, Patrick, walk us through what happens next here 152 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:07.600 the how does the impeachment process work? From the I guess recommendation that was 153 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:13.399 made by the committee. So the House General Investigating Committee says they intend to 154 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:18.080 bring up the impeachment resolution at one pm on Saturday and have a four hour 155 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:22.279 debate over it, and so we can have a you know, a vote 156 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.679 to impeach Paxxton, you know, as early as you know, five pm 157 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:31.919 on Saturday. This could all be done by then. And that vote, 158 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:35.240 you know, as we've detailed on the in all of our coverage, requires 159 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.039 just a simple majority of the House members. And so that right now, 160 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:45.200 I believe is seventy six members, and you already have sixty four Democrats who 161 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:48.679 can be expected to vote as a block to impeach Paxxton. So that means 162 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:54.320 you only need I believe, twelve Republicans. You already have three Republicans who 163 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:58.399 have voted on the committee to recommend us, and so it's it's very easy 164 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.600 to see how you get to the majority needed in the House. But I 165 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.480 think if you're in House leadership, you are you are trying to be mindful 166 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:13.159 of this coming across as a Democratic majority impeachment vote. And so while all 167 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:20.639 Democrats are going to vote for impeachment, you want to have a sizable number 168 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:26.159 of Republicans, probably ideally the majority of the Republican caucus also vote for impeachment. 169 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:31.279 You know, we've seen not that this changes what the Constitution says about 170 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.600 what the Senate has to do, but we have seen the Lieutenant Governor Dan 171 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.919 Patrick, you know, bock At taking up things from the House that are 172 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:43.759 predominantly fueled by Democratic votes. And so I do think in terms of winning 173 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:50.320 a public opinion battle, it probably would be important for this to come out 174 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:56.519 of the House with majority Republican support. That's a complicated kind of political situation 175 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:03.120 here. You know, you have a um an Attorney general who I think 176 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:09.120 there has been sort of tepid concern raised by you know, various Republicans and 177 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:15.360 statewide and other offices from Texas about Kim Paxton, but we have not seen 178 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:20.679 really up until this week, Republicans really kind of willing to kind of stick 179 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.559 their neck out and you know, all for Kim Paxton to resign or or 180 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:31.399 you know, do anything like voting for impeachment. What do you think, 181 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:37.200 James, of the political dynamics the differing incentives that the members of the House 182 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.399 are going to have to consider here. Yeah, I mean, I think 183 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:45.360 Patrick laated out very well. I think GOP leadership in the House is probably 184 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:50.399 cognizant of the fact that they don't want this to be a supermajority of Democrats 185 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.879 voting for this, probably want a good decent amount of Republicans on there. 186 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.159 Frankly, I don't know that that's super far off. Like, I think 187 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:03.799 that the way that the Committee has presented its findings, the way it managed 188 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:07.840 the investigation, you know, I think a lot of Republicans in the House 189 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.840 or scratching their heads and saying, you know, you know what kind of 190 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:16.679 sort of why didn't we do this earlier? So it's no doubt a complicated 191 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.960 issue, and you know, there's probably lobbying going on on both sides, 192 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:26.679 right, Like I mean, House leadership, the Committee is probably lobbying and 193 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:31.919 will be presenting their case Saturday. And similarly, Ken Baxton probably lobbing folks 194 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.080 and saying, hey, I didn't even get a fair shake here. You 195 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.480 know, you're overturning the will of the voters. I hate to repeat that 196 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:43.480 phrase, but you know, voters did have a chance to vote in twenty 197 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:48.320 or last year, and they overwhelmingly re elected him, right, And I 198 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.360 think this is a really tough vote. I think if you're a Republican anywhere 199 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:56.200 in the legislature, even though we've heard confidence that the votes exist in the 200 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.879 House, I still think that this is a This is a tough vote for 201 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.440 Republican member of the legislature to defend Um, you know, if they draw 202 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:08.200 a primary challenge next cycle. Um. You know, we've seen repeatedly UM 203 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:15.039 over the years with Paxston's scandals, that primary voters are aware of them, 204 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:21.399 but don't really are not really interested in all the nitty gritty details because there 205 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:25.159 are a lot of nitty gritty details. I mean, even even the whistleblower 206 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.320 stuff, which is a little easier to understand, you know, has so 207 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.679 many different chapters and layers to it, and um, you know, the 208 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.759 average voter, I think, you know, gets lost in it sometimes. 209 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:40.279 Whereas on the other side, Paxston has a pretty politically neat and concise argument 210 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.120 to make that it's a witch hunt. You know, it's like it's like 211 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:48.840 Trump the way they went after UM, and so I think politically, it's 212 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.000 it's it's it's a it's a difficult vote for a lot of members to have 213 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.799 to defend. Adding to that, Patrick, he's like a huge conservative warrior, 214 00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.840 rock star for the grassroots. Um, you know you and I co 215 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.879 wort that race. And what voters would tell us is like he you know, 216 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.279 people may not like him, people may think he's you know, not 217 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.920 you know, everybody's best friend, but he's getting the conservative things that the 218 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:15.200 grassroots want done and so and I think he mentioned that in his UM in 219 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:19.440 a couple of his statements, basically saying like not these exact words, but 220 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:25.839 the sentiment is like I am the only thing standing between Texas and liberal Biden 221 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.559 chaos basically UM. And I think for a lot of Republican voters that is 222 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:34.799 that is very true. I mean it seems to me like what this needs, 223 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:41.880 what needs to happen, if this does happen, is you need Republicans 224 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.839 to feel like they're all kind of going to go in on this together and 225 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:51.400 that no one's going to kind of be stuck and like shouldering the blame as 226 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.559 being like I'm the person who suck my nag out and here with possibly the 227 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:59.319 exception of feeling who is of course being bashed and Andrew mur right, right, 228 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.920 but you know, I feeling being bashed by the right wing left and 229 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.920 right over this already, but not a particularly unusual position for him to be 230 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.960 in. You know, he took I would say, a similar level of 231 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:17.359 heat for appointing you know, a few Democratic committee chairs at the beginning of 232 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:21.359 this session, to the extent that you know, maybe he's He's the person 233 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:25.319 who initiates this. And what I think determines whether this goes forward or not 234 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:30.079 is whether he can kind of keep that momentum rolling without too many defections. 235 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.039 Yeah, I think so, but I think you know, he is used 236 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:34.839 to this, but it is at a more elevated level. But the other 237 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.000 thing to talk about is the Senate. Right, So if they vote, 238 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:42.599 which I think I think probably Republican lawmakers do feel like they have the votes, 239 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:47.200 it goes to the Senate and then the Senate has to actually do the 240 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.759 trial for removal. And the noteworthy thing I think from last night Patrick, 241 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:57.400 tell me if you agree, is Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick's interview with Jason Whiteley 242 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:02.759 in which he did not throw water on it. He was very cautious to 243 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:06.400 say, I don't want to speak too much about it because we want to 244 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:11.680 remain objective jurors and it would be inappropriate for us to say anything like that. 245 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.359 There's other dynamics there with of course Senator Angela Paxton Ken Paxton's wife. 246 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:19.440 But I don't know Patrick, What did you make of Dan Patrick's comment there? 247 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:26.519 It struck me that he wasn't throwing cold water run Yeah, I mean, 248 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.680 and also he I mean, she's sure he wasn't attacking it or blasting 249 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.960 it or throwing cold water on it, but he wasn't also even saying like 250 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.400 it's it's too premature. I mean, when he sat for that interview, 251 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.960 we didn't even know if the articles impeachment we're going to hit the house floor 252 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.119 anytime soon. I mean, it was just, you know, from a 253 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:48.319 political perspective, seemed very cautious from Patrick in a way that did not benefit 254 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:55.039 Paxton. So yeah, I mean, it really honestly feels like I mean, 255 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:56.559 I know, I'm a younger person, I don't have a lot of 256 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.640 history of these kinds of things, but it does does actually feel like the 257 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:06.640 second trump impeachment after January sixth, where the House, you know, impeached 258 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.400 him, and there was that brief period where it felt like the Senate may 259 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:12.759 go along with it. I don't know if you're remember, but you know 260 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:18.240 the release of the New York Times that Mitch McConnell was seriously considering whipping votes 261 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.960 to remove Trump from all, you know, to you know, go through 262 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.000 through with us barring him from running profess again. And it seemed like there 263 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.400 was a brief period there where you know, the Republicans could actually get rid 264 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.640 of him once and for all. And if I have a feeling we're gonna 265 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.599 have be in the same situation if the House votes to impeach, where it's 266 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.160 gonna like really fall on Dan Patrick's lap, and there's going to be a 267 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:44.640 period where you know, it's you know, Dan Patrick really holds all the 268 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:49.319 cards and can really you know, banish Ken Paxon from Texas political life for 269 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.000 good. And so we'll see what happens. And of course we should note 270 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.720 it's a two thirds vote in the Senate in order to essentially remove him from 271 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.960 office. I mean, the other interesting factor year is that, according to 272 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:08.039 the Constitution, if he is impeached, Paxton must relinquish his duties immediately, 273 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:12.960 essentially at least temporarily until the results of the Senate trial. So I mean, 274 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.519 we could have a situation where, you know, twenty four hours from 275 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:21.839 the point we're talking, Ken Paxton at least, you know, for all 276 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.319 intensive you know, at least for a temporary period of time, is no 277 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:30.640 longer kind of the acting Attorney General. Governor Abbott has the option, I 278 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:37.279 believe it's may appoint kind of an interim replacement in that circumstance. According to 279 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:41.119 the Constitution, He of course, is the last sort of factor in here. 280 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:48.680 Has not really said anything. Unless I'm mistaken about this, how do 281 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.440 we evaluate Abbot's role in this? And and you know, maybe does he 282 00:21:53.480 --> 00:22:00.160 even really need to say anything? Patrick, you've talked to I think yeah. 283 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.759 I mean, look, journalistically, we're staying on top of him, 284 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.160 trying to get a comment out of him, and you know, our readers 285 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.759 in a public deserve you know, transparency, and is thinking on this politically 286 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:17.160 totally different thing. I mean, there's no there's no real political incentive I 287 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.440 see for Abbott to put his fingerprints on this quite yet. I mean, 288 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:23.279 as we're seeing right now. You know, without Abbott's public, you know 289 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:29.559 comments, the House has been able to get articles of impeachment on the precipice 290 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.920 of a floor vote, and which would imply that they have the votes. 291 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:36.440 And so you know, at this point, you know, from political perspective, 292 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:38.240 um, you know, I don't think it, you know, makes 293 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.960 sense for you know, I don't think Abbott has to weigh in to have 294 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:45.839 any influence on the process. Yeah, and it's it's I mean, it's 295 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:48.519 quite frankly, it's chaos out there because you do have some people saying like, 296 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.279 well, yes, we should consider these things. But you know, 297 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.279 the Republican Party of Texas, no small player in this, has come out 298 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:02.240 and said the impeachment is basically a shampum, and so there is a part 299 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:07.799 of the base. The official Republican Party of Texas's stance is that they stand 300 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:11.640 with Ken Paxton. And so there is division, there is chaos, and 301 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:15.880 we're in for a very interesting next twenty four hours. I think. Yeah, 302 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.759 you know, they're moving very quickly on this. We just found out 303 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:22.440 about this a few days ago. We're looking at a vote on Saturday. 304 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:27.160 I mean, I do kind of wonder about the pace right, it's part 305 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:33.880 of that designed to kind of keep the like drumbeat of conservative pushback from scaring 306 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.319 members out of votes or anything like that. You know, I mean, 307 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.000 if you you know, you mentioned the GOP. We also heard Donald Trump 308 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:48.000 Junior kind of tweet out something in support of Paxiston can ritten House not exactly 309 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.359 kind of the dream team of Republican support. But you know, some people 310 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.799 who conservatives, hardline conservatives pay attention to as well. And if you were 311 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:00.200 to start to see more folks, if you were to see some kind of 312 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:04.640 major political figures speak out, that could possibly sway things one way or the 313 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:11.000 other. Right, Kyle Rittenhouse, Texan question markt But yes, to your 314 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.079 point, I mean, yes, there is a lot of there's a lot 315 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:18.200 going on here. It's not just those voices that you're pointing out. There's 316 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.799 also a lot of anonymous voices, right, Patrick, of like these perhaps 317 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.279 dark money groups sending out attacks against the speaker now saying like hey we did 318 00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:32.119 we don't need to get rid of of Attorney General Paxton. So you know, 319 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:37.759 the chess pieces are being played and they are moving. So yeah, 320 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.640 it's people buckle up, I guess, yeah, you know, we'll say, 321 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.559 and this was I made this point in story wrote this morning just because 322 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:47.480 it feels like the you know, at least my tones put a little cynical 323 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:52.119 towards the House throughout this podcast. But it is a huge deal and you 324 00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:57.400 know, a rare moment of political boldness or courage for the House to go 325 00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:03.359 this Throughoute I mean as well be you know, it's Republicans in Texas have 326 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.079 largely looked the other way for years and years on Paxton. And you know, 327 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.920 in doing this, the House is abruptly changing that arch of history or 328 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:17.000 seeking a change at the archipistry. No Attorney general in the yeah, in 329 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:19.720 the history of Texas has Satburn beachment. So it's a big move. It 330 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:23.000 is a big move, and it is something we will be closely watching over 331 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.000 the weekend. A note to listeners if you enjoyed the trip cast, I'm 332 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.960 sure we'll be talking about this on Monday when we have our live trip cast 333 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:37.079 at ten am at the Texas Tribune Studios nine one nine Congress Avenue in Austin 334 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.240 downtown, just a few blocks away from the Capitol. So visit Texas Tribune 335 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:47.200 dot org slash events if you'd like to come participate in that. In the 336 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.359 meantime, we'll let y'all go because we got a press conference in twenty nine 337 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:53.039 minutes, and you know this, a lot could change in the next twenty 338 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.559 four hours. So thank you Patrick, thank you James, thank you to 339 00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:02.839 our producer Justin, and thank you to our sponsor is UT Arlington bp Lone 340 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.240 Star College and the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. We'll talk to y'all 341 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:18.480 soon. Get ready to explore the latest in politics, public policy, and 342 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.880 the media with the lawmakers and thought leaders making the news at the Texas Tribune 343 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:29.160 Festival, happening September twenty first through the twenty third in downtown Austin. Discounted 344 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:33.319 tickets are on sale now through May thirty first at tribfest dot org.