1 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:14,960 This week's trip cast is sponsored by ut Arlington's commitment to excellence keeps Texas strong 2 00:00:15,199 --> 00:00:20,559 with highly skilled graduates for the Texas workforce and life changing research. Find out 3 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:28,719 more at UTA dot edu and Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. Delivering quality 4 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:35,240 healthcare to underserved areas throughout Texas by expanding vital telehealth services. Learn more at 5 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:52,240 Telehealth for Texas dot Com. Hello and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast 6 00:00:52,359 --> 00:00:56,200 for May twenty six, twenty twenty three. It is the end of a 7 00:00:56,439 --> 00:01:02,000 crazy day, a crazy week, and a crazy month, and politics culminating 8 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:07,280 yesterday with the House General Investigating Committee disclosing that it had recommended the impeachment of 9 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,959 Attorney General Ken Paxton. Twenty articles of impeachment delivered to the Texas House yesterday. 10 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,239 They have been distributed in the House, revealing today that they're expecting to 11 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:22,560 vote on impeachment at one pm today. A major kind of earth shattering week 12 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,680 in Texas politics. Joining us today to discuss this our politics Reporter Patrick speetech 13 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,120 Hey, Patrick, Hey, thanks for having me, Yeah, thanks for 14 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,680 joining. And politics reporter James Bettergan Hey, James Hey, Matthew, Hey, 15 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:38,959 it's James, So walk us through this twenty articles of impeachment. How 16 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,359 did we get here and what is Kim Paxton accused of? Well, it's 17 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:45,879 as you said, it's been a stunning week here in the Texas House, 18 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,359 starting on Tuesday when the General Investigating Committee revealed to the public that they had 19 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:57,239 been investigating Attorney General Kent Paxton since March four crimes that were alleged by the 20 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:01,840 whistleblowers in twenty twenty some of his top deputies who accused him of crimes. 21 00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:08,240 That investigation went beyond even what the whistleblowers alleged and even touched on his previous 22 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:15,199 securities fraught charges from twenty fifteen, which are still ongoing. It stretched into 23 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:21,439 a potential two property homestead exemptions rather than just a one allowed by Texas law. 24 00:02:21,719 --> 00:02:24,560 And now we have the twenty articles of impeachment against Ken Paxson that have 25 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:30,719 been recommended by the Committee to the House. And that is where we are 26 00:02:30,719 --> 00:02:35,280 on the precipice of this really historic moment on Saturday. He would be the 27 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:42,400 first Attorney general to sit for impeachment if indeed House lawmakers decide to push that 28 00:02:42,479 --> 00:02:46,759 forward to the Senate. So a kind of new revelation coming from the committee 29 00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:53,319 about Pason having two home set exemptions. A you know, something that is 30 00:02:53,319 --> 00:02:57,960 against the law, not legal, but also maybe not the highest in the 31 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,680 ranking of Ken Packson scandal. You know, something we've seen before. Governor 32 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:06,120 Rick Perry had this problem once before as well, back in the day when 33 00:03:06,199 --> 00:03:08,520 he was running for governor. But um, you know, some of these 34 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,599 other things are things that we've already known about, particularly what was laid out 35 00:03:12,599 --> 00:03:19,879 by the whistleblowers, allegations of bribery, inappropriate relationship with donors, kind of 36 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,280 interfering with some of the duties of the AG's office, perhaps to tip the 37 00:03:24,319 --> 00:03:30,199 hand for Nate Paul, one of his not perhaps they're they're they're accusing that 38 00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:35,719 they're accusing him of abusing the Attorney General's office to benefit his friend and political 39 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:39,000 donor in Nate Paul, right, right, Patrick. All of those things 40 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,840 we have known about since twenty twenty one, the last time the legislature met. 41 00:03:45,759 --> 00:03:50,599 Why why is this happening now? Well, it depends who you ask. 42 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,199 According to House leadership, this was all triggered by Paxton's requests of the 43 00:03:54,280 --> 00:04:00,080 legislature to authorize taxpair of dollars to pay for that settlement with the whistleblowers, 44 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,919 you know. In fact, and the memo, the latest memo that we 45 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,360 saw from the General Investigating Committee, uh, you know, there was a 46 00:04:08,719 --> 00:04:13,479 bolded sentence in it that said, you know, we cannot emphasize enough that 47 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,839 this impeachment wouldn't be happening if Paxson had not asked the legislature, um, 48 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,839 you know for these uh this taxpayer funded settlement. So that is that is 49 00:04:21,879 --> 00:04:27,759 their explanation. You know. The Speaker's office has said that when Paxson came 50 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,120 to the legislature earlier this year to ask for that settlement, he did not 51 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:36,079 provide enough evidence or support um for his need for the state funds for that 52 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,279 settlement. So that's their side of the story. Of course, if you're 53 00:04:40,319 --> 00:04:44,759 with Paxton, you know, or even if you're on the fence, you 54 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,079 know, you can't help, but you know, acknowledge the political context here, 55 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,720 which is that Ken Paxton represents um you know, comes from a wing 56 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:58,759 of the Texas Republican Party that is persistently critical the Texas House, constantly dogging 57 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,279 it as insufficient conservative. You know, Ken Paxxton and his you know, 58 00:05:02,399 --> 00:05:06,279 doesn't do that, you know, every day in his you know, job 59 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:12,040 as Attorney General. But there's no doubt where his bread is buttered and what 60 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,399 kind of faction of the Republican Party in Texas he comes from. And so 61 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,439 you know, to his supporters, you know, this reeks of political retaliation 62 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:25,480 because he comes from that part of the party and he feels he feeled those 63 00:05:25,519 --> 00:05:30,480 speculations on Tuesday, prior to the committee's meeting, when he put out a 64 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:36,319 message sort of accusing Speaker Feeling of being intoxicated on the diet, which is 65 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,800 a thing that had been sort of floating around. And then right after that, 66 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,720 then that's when the Committee's sort of made public that actually it's an investigation 67 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,480 about you, and perhaps that's why you're trying to create the smokescreen. Yeah, 68 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:54,680 that the allegation of Feeling being intoxicated of coming from a video from you 69 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,399 know, a few days earlier. We're Feeling, at the end of a 70 00:05:57,519 --> 00:06:00,759 very long day presiding over the House, seemed to be slurring his speech. 71 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,040 Many people in the kind of hard right we're jumping on that video saying that 72 00:06:06,079 --> 00:06:12,800 he seemed like he was drunk that calling for Feeling to resign, which you 73 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,120 know, that was right before we knew what was about to happen in the 74 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,800 General Investigating Committee was its own sort of dramatic event. But I mean, 75 00:06:18,879 --> 00:06:23,879 James, what we have here is kind of you know, Republicans going after 76 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,560 Republicans. Here. This is not a Democratic House impeaching a Republican president. 77 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,839 This is a Republican controlled House going after a Republican attorney general. Yeah. 78 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,920 And just for the record for listeners and our audience, we have asked persistently 79 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:42,000 that question about date, feeling and whether he was drunk, and we just 80 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,240 have not been able to get an answer, I think from from the Speaker's 81 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,399 office. So those questions have been made. I know there's there's there is 82 00:06:48,439 --> 00:06:53,360 obviously concerned from some people about what that was there. But to your point, 83 00:06:53,399 --> 00:06:56,800 Matthew, yes, I mean this is a continuation of the in fighting 84 00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:02,560 between Republicans, the more conservative social far right wing of the party and the 85 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:10,120 more establishment Republican that has been in some oderation really for the last decade or 86 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,199 so, I think, and that is what we're seeing. But I think 87 00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:16,839 to Patrick's point, you know, the House is saying, well, we 88 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:21,480 started this investigation because of the settlement. I don't, you know. I 89 00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:25,639 guess we take them at face value. But for me, like politically, 90 00:07:25,639 --> 00:07:28,519 I just don't understand why they wouldn't have been able to do this kind of 91 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:33,439 investigation before. I mean, these allegations by the whistleblowers were known since twenty 92 00:07:33,519 --> 00:07:40,160 twenty, the securities fraud charges were known since twenty fifteen, so I mean 93 00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:44,600 there was plenty of room for them to work with before the General Investigating Committee 94 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,040 could have taken that up. I guess, But yeah, that that part 95 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,720 has sort of got myself and I think another a lot of other reporters and 96 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:54,720 perhaps some people in the public started scratching their head about like what's different? 97 00:07:54,759 --> 00:07:57,519 Why? Why? Why now? Yeah? And also, James, you 98 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,720 mentioned that the securities fraud charges are part of the articles of impeachment, and 99 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:07,639 so the idea that the articles impeachment are exclusively centered on the whistleblower claims is 100 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,480 you know, you know, exclusively prompted or centered on the whistleblower claims, 101 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:15,759 which are totally separate from the securities broad charges. That's kind of debunked by 102 00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:18,439 the fact that the the you know, articles of impeachment are are broader than 103 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:24,839 the whistleblower claims, and they do encompass articles related to those years old securities 104 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:28,360 broad charges. So, um, you know, but this is the explanation 105 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,759 we've gotten from the House. Of course, there's no doubt that there are 106 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,440 you know, uh, when handling something like this, Um, there are 107 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,720 all kinds of political considerations in terms of how you structure at the pacing, 108 00:08:37,759 --> 00:08:41,879 what you decide to go public with. UM. So you know, of 109 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:45,120 course, the you know, House leadership is not you know, pure as 110 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,080 the driven snow here when it comes to you know, bringing um. So 111 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,679 you know, that's that that needs to be said. Impeachment, as many 112 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,000 people have noted, is is ultimately a political act, local process, right, 113 00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:58,320 you know. And one kind of phrase we have been hearing and I 114 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,080 think will continue to be hearing is forgiveness doctrine. Right this this idea that 115 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,879 you know, a a aid to Paxton kind of brought up that you can't 116 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:13,879 be impeached for actions that happened after the most I mean sorry, before the 117 00:09:13,919 --> 00:09:18,240 most recent election. All of these things were known to the voters in twenty 118 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,919 twenty two. The voters had choices. They could have elected one of three 119 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,840 other Republican primary opponents of Ken Paxton. They could have elected a Democrat in 120 00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:33,240 the general election. They chose not to do that. And so the question 121 00:09:33,399 --> 00:09:37,799 being A, is it appropriate, you know, setting aside the law to 122 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,399 kind of, you know, as as paxson supporters have said, undo the 123 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,559 will of the voters. And B is it legal? You know, is 124 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,360 there kind of precedent to suggest that they should only be punishing him for things 125 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:54,720 afterwards? You know, we don't know whether there will be legal challenges, 126 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,559 you know, we should say. We're recording this at a little bit after 127 00:09:56,639 --> 00:10:01,799 three o'clock on Friday. Ken Paxson has not spoken publicly. He released a 128 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,879 statement, but he is giving a press conference at four o'clock today and we 129 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,440 might hear more about that. But I mean, I think a lot of 130 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:13,639 questions still being raised about the House's processes and procedures and all this. Yeah, 131 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,279 and the House tried to address this in their memo, right Patrick. 132 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,039 I mean they said that this quote unquote forgiveness doctrine that they've thrown around. 133 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:26,159 The Attorney General's office also has to be said sent a lawyer to the General 134 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,679 Investigative the committee saying, hey, I want to testify we should have our 135 00:10:30,759 --> 00:10:37,000 fair say in this process, and then argued to reporters because he was not 136 00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:43,480 allowed to testify, that the investigation was illegal and that impeachment of an elected 137 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:52,480 official is limited to alleged crimes made before they were elected in office. But 138 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,679 I think they stretched that to say the last election is what they said. 139 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,000 We've looked at the statue and it says limited crimes or office. Of course, 140 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,519 the House has said that doesn't apply here, and they've shown their precedent 141 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,679 here, so I don't know. You know, the Attorney General has not 142 00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:16,519 been afraid of shall I say, novel legal theories, so I would not 143 00:11:16,639 --> 00:11:22,159 be surprised if there was some type of legal argument. In fact, as 144 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:24,879 we're recording, there's a press conference scheduled for later today, so we'll have 145 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:28,480 to see what they say. But yeah, a lot of moving parts to 146 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,120 this happening right now. All right, let's pause for a him and hear 147 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,399 from our sponsors. 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So the House General Investigating Committee says they intend to 154 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,080 bring up the impeachment resolution at one pm on Saturday and have a four hour 155 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,279 debate over it, and so we can have a you know, a vote 156 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,679 to impeach Paxxton, you know, as early as you know, five pm 157 00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:31,919 on Saturday. This could all be done by then. And that vote, 158 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:35,240 you know, as we've detailed on the in all of our coverage, requires 159 00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:39,039 just a simple majority of the House members. And so that right now, 160 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:45,200 I believe is seventy six members, and you already have sixty four Democrats who 161 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,679 can be expected to vote as a block to impeach Paxxton. So that means 162 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,320 you only need I believe, twelve Republicans. You already have three Republicans who 163 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,399 have voted on the committee to recommend us, and so it's it's very easy 164 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,600 to see how you get to the majority needed in the House. But I 165 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,480 think if you're in House leadership, you are you are trying to be mindful 166 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:13,159 of this coming across as a Democratic majority impeachment vote. And so while all 167 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:20,639 Democrats are going to vote for impeachment, you want to have a sizable number 168 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:26,159 of Republicans, probably ideally the majority of the Republican caucus also vote for impeachment. 169 00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:31,279 You know, we've seen not that this changes what the Constitution says about 170 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,600 what the Senate has to do, but we have seen the Lieutenant Governor Dan 171 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:37,919 Patrick, you know, bock At taking up things from the House that are 172 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:43,759 predominantly fueled by Democratic votes. And so I do think in terms of winning 173 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:50,320 a public opinion battle, it probably would be important for this to come out 174 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:56,519 of the House with majority Republican support. That's a complicated kind of political situation 175 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:03,120 here. You know, you have a um an Attorney general who I think 176 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:09,120 there has been sort of tepid concern raised by you know, various Republicans and 177 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:15,360 statewide and other offices from Texas about Kim Paxton, but we have not seen 178 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:20,679 really up until this week, Republicans really kind of willing to kind of stick 179 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,559 their neck out and you know, all for Kim Paxton to resign or or 180 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:31,399 you know, do anything like voting for impeachment. What do you think, 181 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:37,200 James, of the political dynamics the differing incentives that the members of the House 182 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,399 are going to have to consider here. Yeah, I mean, I think 183 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:45,360 Patrick laated out very well. I think GOP leadership in the House is probably 184 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:50,399 cognizant of the fact that they don't want this to be a supermajority of Democrats 185 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,879 voting for this, probably want a good decent amount of Republicans on there. 186 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,159 Frankly, I don't know that that's super far off. Like, I think 187 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,799 that the way that the Committee has presented its findings, the way it managed 188 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,840 the investigation, you know, I think a lot of Republicans in the House 189 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,840 or scratching their heads and saying, you know, you know what kind of 190 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:16,679 sort of why didn't we do this earlier? So it's no doubt a complicated 191 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,960 issue, and you know, there's probably lobbying going on on both sides, 192 00:15:22,039 --> 00:15:26,679 right, Like I mean, House leadership, the Committee is probably lobbying and 193 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:31,919 will be presenting their case Saturday. And similarly, Ken Baxton probably lobbing folks 194 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:35,080 and saying, hey, I didn't even get a fair shake here. You 195 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,480 know, you're overturning the will of the voters. I hate to repeat that 196 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:43,480 phrase, but you know, voters did have a chance to vote in twenty 197 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,320 or last year, and they overwhelmingly re elected him, right, And I 198 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,360 think this is a really tough vote. I think if you're a Republican anywhere 199 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,200 in the legislature, even though we've heard confidence that the votes exist in the 200 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,879 House, I still think that this is a This is a tough vote for 201 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,440 Republican member of the legislature to defend Um, you know, if they draw 202 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,200 a primary challenge next cycle. Um. You know, we've seen repeatedly UM 203 00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:15,039 over the years with Paxston's scandals, that primary voters are aware of them, 204 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:21,399 but don't really are not really interested in all the nitty gritty details because there 205 00:16:21,399 --> 00:16:25,159 are a lot of nitty gritty details. I mean, even even the whistleblower 206 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,320 stuff, which is a little easier to understand, you know, has so 207 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,679 many different chapters and layers to it, and um, you know, the 208 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,759 average voter, I think, you know, gets lost in it sometimes. 209 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:40,279 Whereas on the other side, Paxston has a pretty politically neat and concise argument 210 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,120 to make that it's a witch hunt. You know, it's like it's like 211 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,840 Trump the way they went after UM, and so I think politically, it's 212 00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:52,000 it's it's it's a it's a difficult vote for a lot of members to have 213 00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:56,799 to defend. Adding to that, Patrick, he's like a huge conservative warrior, 214 00:16:56,919 --> 00:16:59,840 rock star for the grassroots. Um, you know you and I co 215 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:03,879 wort that race. And what voters would tell us is like he you know, 216 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,279 people may not like him, people may think he's you know, not 217 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,920 you know, everybody's best friend, but he's getting the conservative things that the 218 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,200 grassroots want done and so and I think he mentioned that in his UM in 219 00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:19,440 a couple of his statements, basically saying like not these exact words, but 220 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:25,839 the sentiment is like I am the only thing standing between Texas and liberal Biden 221 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,559 chaos basically UM. And I think for a lot of Republican voters that is 222 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,799 that is very true. I mean it seems to me like what this needs, 223 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,880 what needs to happen, if this does happen, is you need Republicans 224 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,839 to feel like they're all kind of going to go in on this together and 225 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:51,400 that no one's going to kind of be stuck and like shouldering the blame as 226 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,559 being like I'm the person who suck my nag out and here with possibly the 227 00:17:53,559 --> 00:17:59,319 exception of feeling who is of course being bashed and Andrew mur right, right, 228 00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:02,920 but you know, I feeling being bashed by the right wing left and 229 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:07,920 right over this already, but not a particularly unusual position for him to be 230 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,960 in. You know, he took I would say, a similar level of 231 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:17,359 heat for appointing you know, a few Democratic committee chairs at the beginning of 232 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,359 this session, to the extent that you know, maybe he's He's the person 233 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,319 who initiates this. And what I think determines whether this goes forward or not 234 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,079 is whether he can kind of keep that momentum rolling without too many defections. 235 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,039 Yeah, I think so, but I think you know, he is used 236 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:34,839 to this, but it is at a more elevated level. But the other 237 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,000 thing to talk about is the Senate. Right, So if they vote, 238 00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:42,599 which I think I think probably Republican lawmakers do feel like they have the votes, 239 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,200 it goes to the Senate and then the Senate has to actually do the 240 00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:52,759 trial for removal. And the noteworthy thing I think from last night Patrick, 241 00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:57,400 tell me if you agree, is Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick's interview with Jason Whiteley 242 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,759 in which he did not throw water on it. He was very cautious to 243 00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:06,400 say, I don't want to speak too much about it because we want to 244 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,680 remain objective jurors and it would be inappropriate for us to say anything like that. 245 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,359 There's other dynamics there with of course Senator Angela Paxton Ken Paxton's wife. 246 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:19,440 But I don't know Patrick, What did you make of Dan Patrick's comment there? 247 00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:26,519 It struck me that he wasn't throwing cold water run Yeah, I mean, 248 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,680 and also he I mean, she's sure he wasn't attacking it or blasting 249 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,960 it or throwing cold water on it, but he wasn't also even saying like 250 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,400 it's it's too premature. I mean, when he sat for that interview, 251 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,960 we didn't even know if the articles impeachment we're going to hit the house floor 252 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,119 anytime soon. I mean, it was just, you know, from a 253 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,319 political perspective, seemed very cautious from Patrick in a way that did not benefit 254 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:55,039 Paxton. So yeah, I mean, it really honestly feels like I mean, 255 00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:56,559 I know, I'm a younger person, I don't have a lot of 256 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,640 history of these kinds of things, but it does does actually feel like the 257 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:06,640 second trump impeachment after January sixth, where the House, you know, impeached 258 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,400 him, and there was that brief period where it felt like the Senate may 259 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:12,759 go along with it. I don't know if you're remember, but you know 260 00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:18,240 the release of the New York Times that Mitch McConnell was seriously considering whipping votes 261 00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:21,960 to remove Trump from all, you know, to you know, go through 262 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,000 through with us barring him from running profess again. And it seemed like there 263 00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:30,400 was a brief period there where you know, the Republicans could actually get rid 264 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,640 of him once and for all. And if I have a feeling we're gonna 265 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,599 have be in the same situation if the House votes to impeach, where it's 266 00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:40,160 gonna like really fall on Dan Patrick's lap, and there's going to be a 267 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,640 period where you know, it's you know, Dan Patrick really holds all the 268 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,319 cards and can really you know, banish Ken Paxon from Texas political life for 269 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,000 good. And so we'll see what happens. And of course we should note 270 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,720 it's a two thirds vote in the Senate in order to essentially remove him from 271 00:20:56,759 --> 00:21:00,960 office. I mean, the other interesting factor year is that, according to 272 00:21:00,039 --> 00:21:08,039 the Constitution, if he is impeached, Paxton must relinquish his duties immediately, 273 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:12,960 essentially at least temporarily until the results of the Senate trial. So I mean, 274 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,519 we could have a situation where, you know, twenty four hours from 275 00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,839 the point we're talking, Ken Paxton at least, you know, for all 276 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,319 intensive you know, at least for a temporary period of time, is no 277 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,640 longer kind of the acting Attorney General. Governor Abbott has the option, I 278 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:37,279 believe it's may appoint kind of an interim replacement in that circumstance. According to 279 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,119 the Constitution, He of course, is the last sort of factor in here. 280 00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:48,680 Has not really said anything. Unless I'm mistaken about this, how do 281 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:53,440 we evaluate Abbot's role in this? And and you know, maybe does he 282 00:21:53,480 --> 00:22:00,160 even really need to say anything? Patrick, you've talked to I think yeah. 283 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,759 I mean, look, journalistically, we're staying on top of him, 284 00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:07,160 trying to get a comment out of him, and you know, our readers 285 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,759 in a public deserve you know, transparency, and is thinking on this politically 286 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:17,160 totally different thing. I mean, there's no there's no real political incentive I 287 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,440 see for Abbott to put his fingerprints on this quite yet. I mean, 288 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,279 as we're seeing right now. You know, without Abbott's public, you know 289 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:29,559 comments, the House has been able to get articles of impeachment on the precipice 290 00:22:29,599 --> 00:22:32,920 of a floor vote, and which would imply that they have the votes. 291 00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:36,440 And so you know, at this point, you know, from political perspective, 292 00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:38,240 um, you know, I don't think it, you know, makes 293 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,960 sense for you know, I don't think Abbott has to weigh in to have 294 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,839 any influence on the process. Yeah, and it's it's I mean, it's 295 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,519 quite frankly, it's chaos out there because you do have some people saying like, 296 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:52,279 well, yes, we should consider these things. But you know, 297 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,279 the Republican Party of Texas, no small player in this, has come out 298 00:22:56,319 --> 00:23:02,240 and said the impeachment is basically a shampum, and so there is a part 299 00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:07,799 of the base. The official Republican Party of Texas's stance is that they stand 300 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:11,640 with Ken Paxton. And so there is division, there is chaos, and 301 00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:15,880 we're in for a very interesting next twenty four hours. I think. Yeah, 302 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,759 you know, they're moving very quickly on this. We just found out 303 00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:22,440 about this a few days ago. We're looking at a vote on Saturday. 304 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,160 I mean, I do kind of wonder about the pace right, it's part 305 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:33,880 of that designed to kind of keep the like drumbeat of conservative pushback from scaring 306 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,319 members out of votes or anything like that. You know, I mean, 307 00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:41,000 if you you know, you mentioned the GOP. We also heard Donald Trump 308 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:48,000 Junior kind of tweet out something in support of Paxiston can ritten House not exactly 309 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,359 kind of the dream team of Republican support. But you know, some people 310 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,799 who conservatives, hardline conservatives pay attention to as well. And if you were 311 00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:00,200 to start to see more folks, if you were to see some kind of 312 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,640 major political figures speak out, that could possibly sway things one way or the 313 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:11,000 other. Right, Kyle Rittenhouse, Texan question markt But yes, to your 314 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,079 point, I mean, yes, there is a lot of there's a lot 315 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,200 going on here. It's not just those voices that you're pointing out. There's 316 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,799 also a lot of anonymous voices, right, Patrick, of like these perhaps 317 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,279 dark money groups sending out attacks against the speaker now saying like hey we did 318 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:32,119 we don't need to get rid of of Attorney General Paxton. So you know, 319 00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:37,759 the chess pieces are being played and they are moving. So yeah, 320 00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:41,640 it's people buckle up, I guess, yeah, you know, we'll say, 321 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,559 and this was I made this point in story wrote this morning just because 322 00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:47,480 it feels like the you know, at least my tones put a little cynical 323 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:52,119 towards the House throughout this podcast. But it is a huge deal and you 324 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,400 know, a rare moment of political boldness or courage for the House to go 325 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:03,359 this Throughoute I mean as well be you know, it's Republicans in Texas have 326 00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,079 largely looked the other way for years and years on Paxton. And you know, 327 00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:11,920 in doing this, the House is abruptly changing that arch of history or 328 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,000 seeking a change at the archipistry. No Attorney general in the yeah, in 329 00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:19,720 the history of Texas has Satburn beachment. So it's a big move. It 330 00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:23,000 is a big move, and it is something we will be closely watching over 331 00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:27,000 the weekend. A note to listeners if you enjoyed the trip cast, I'm 332 00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:30,960 sure we'll be talking about this on Monday when we have our live trip cast 333 00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:37,079 at ten am at the Texas Tribune Studios nine one nine Congress Avenue in Austin 334 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,240 downtown, just a few blocks away from the Capitol. So visit Texas Tribune 335 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:47,200 dot org slash events if you'd like to come participate in that. In the 336 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,359 meantime, we'll let y'all go because we got a press conference in twenty nine 337 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,039 minutes, and you know this, a lot could change in the next twenty 338 00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:56,559 four hours. So thank you Patrick, thank you James, thank you to 339 00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:02,839 our producer Justin, and thank you to our sponsor is UT Arlington bp Lone 340 00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:07,240 Star College and the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. We'll talk to y'all 341 00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:18,480 soon. Get ready to explore the latest in politics, public policy, and 342 00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:22,880 the media with the lawmakers and thought leaders making the news at the Texas Tribune 343 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:29,160 Festival, happening September twenty first through the twenty third in downtown Austin. Discounted 344 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,319 tickets are on sale now through May thirty first at tribfest dot org.