WEBVTT 1 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.640 Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin Willashire. Host and I've been 2 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.799 busy the last few weeks. Glad to be back. I did some pre 3 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:39.119 recording shows at the Ozark Mountain UFO conference. I had a blast. It's 4 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:43.679 a beautiful conference, wonderful place to be. Went to the Haunted hotel, 5 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:49.240 the Crescent Hotel with my producer Donna and Mark de Antonio. We had a 6 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:52.640 really fun time there. Didn't see any ghosts, but anyway, it was 7 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:57.799 still a great tour. Late in the evening we even went in the morgue 8 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:02.240 all that weird stuff. But anyway, the conference was great and I got 9 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.079 to meet a lot of people. It was a lot of fun. Also, 10 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:08.799 I met up with Nick Pope for this interview you're going to see here. 11 00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:14.920 He talks about things in this interview that you probably will not hear in 12 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.760 another interview, and I thought it was a really good one. So just 13 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:22.799 to let you know where we're going from here at seven thirty pm, if 14 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.519 you're watching on either Facebook or the other Things Live, we're going from here 15 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:32.799 over to Kevin Day starts at seven point thirty. So I got to get 16 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:38.120 this thing rolling just quickly. The blog this week from Charles lear Is UFOs 17 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.840 over Scottsdale, Arizona. That's a recent thing in April that happened, so 18 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.799 he writes about that. So right now I'm going to start, Nick Pope, 19 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:51.560 and I'll see you after this ends, and we'll jump over to the 20 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:56.359 next one. Also Monday, at eight pm Eastern, we have Brandon Fugel. 21 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:00.599 It's going to be talking about the premiere of season five of the Secret 22 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:05.599 of Skinwalker Ranch and that's on Monday at eight pm. And here we go. 23 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:07.840 All right, I'm here with Nick Pope. Thank you, Nick for 24 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:13.439 being willing to sit down and talk. Sure, and we really had I 25 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.879 had fun with you up in Shag Harbor this last October. That was a 26 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:22.719 real pleasure to meet you up there and hang out and and I enjoyed both 27 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:29.520 talks. We're here at the Ozark Mountain UFO conference, and I really loved 28 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.879 what you had to say up there, and then yesterday that was a very 29 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:37.360 good, very good talk. I have to say. You must be a 30 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.639 man that thinks a lot and really looks into a lot of things in between 31 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:46.840 your very busy schedule. That's right. Yes, I'm always reading, I'm 32 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:52.719 always taking in a fast amount of information, and yes, absolutely thinking about 33 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:57.919 things, thinking of questions that people maybe haven't thought to ask, thinking of 34 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:05.319 different angles to approach this topic from, because it's so multifaceted. And you 35 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:07.719 know, just as you think you've counted everything, you're taken off in a 36 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:12.280 new direction, right, And I think that's a good point, the questions. 37 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.960 You know, we don't even know what questions to ask. And I 38 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:20.759 agree with a lot of the things you said. Now you went down kind 39 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:24.800 of the dark side to the possibility of the dark side. And also when 40 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:31.280 it comes to disclosure, you think of things, why if the government knows? 41 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:34.919 And I personally don't think they know everything, but I think they know 42 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.879 most likely more than we do. I'm talking about the US government. But 43 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:44.319 there may be a dark side, and that's way maybe the reason we're not 44 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.479 knowing as much as we'd like to. And do you want to hit on 45 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:52.639 some of those ideas, I mean they're fascinating. Sure. Yes. The 46 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.319 title of my presentation, as you know, was a secret too terrible to 47 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:02.319 be told. And I wonder you know, given that there can really be 48 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:09.599 nothing classified about an extraterrestrial presence, if that's what we're dealing with in and 49 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:15.960 of itself, you know, in terms of the literal Security Manual definitions of 50 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:20.959 what classified information is in terms of causing harm to the national security of the 51 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:27.199 United States. Well, if you say we're being visited by call it, 52 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:31.360 let's use the phrase non human intelligence, the David Grush term, that can't 53 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:36.639 be classified. It must be that there's something else about it that takes us 54 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:43.160 into new territory. There's part of the story, part of the backstory that 55 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:50.000 does take us into something that's classified because it would cause damage. Because all 56 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:56.600 the cliches about you know, undermining religion and panic in the streets, you 57 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:01.360 know, they have some validity to them, but that's not a justification for 58 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:09.560 classification really, not certainly at the levels that we've seen classified briefings in Congress, 59 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:15.680 for example. So it was just a speculative what if presentation that really 60 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:21.000 said, look, what might that something else be that would take us into 61 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:27.399 dark side territory? Right, and some of the different things. I know, 62 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:32.720 you go through the demonic possibility that I mean, people like Luel Zondo 63 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:38.120 said someone above his pay grade, I remember when he said that mentioned him 64 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:42.199 that he thought there could be a demonic element to this, just one of 65 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:48.319 them. And also I've heard him also say that what if something you know, 66 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:53.879 what if we aren't the top thing here, the top intelligence, what 67 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:57.439 if there's been something here all along? You know. All that stuff fascinates 68 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:00.240 me because we only you know, I mean, just think of our spectrum 69 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.720 alone. But I think we only know just very little about what's going around 70 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:09.160 on around us at all times. Absolutely, And look, you know, 71 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:11.920 I know a lot of people in the UFO community take a very sort of 72 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:16.879 spiritual New Age approach to this. The space people are coming here, They're 73 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:23.160 going to save us from nuclear destruction or all of that. I'd love it 74 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:25.879 to be true, but I suspect it isn't. I mean, you know, 75 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:31.079 for all the people that say there's a UFO nuclear connection and who then 76 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:34.360 take the next step and say, well, if we ever press the button, 77 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:39.240 they'll step in, Well, they didn't step in at Hiroshima and na 78 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:46.920 Yasaki, right, So this dark side idea appeals to me. I mean, 79 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:51.600 I don't personally believe in demons. But what's interesting is that people in 80 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:58.120 both the US and the UK government who are well placed, highly placed, 81 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:02.000 senior people with power and authority, do believe in demons, and particularly in 82 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:09.120 the US, in the sort of fundamentalist Christian arena, where there are people 83 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:16.199 who told Aleszondo when lou was trying to get more resources and more stakeholder engagement 84 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:21.319 on this, said go read your Bible, son, and I mentioned the 85 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:26.879 specific passage in the Book of Ephesians that a lot of this faction who think 86 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:32.240 it's demonic hang this on. And it's the quote that described Satan as being 87 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:39.759 the prints of the power of the air. And therefore, if there's this 88 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:45.279 faction that thinks it's demonic or part of it is demonic, they also believe 89 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.360 that you shouldn't really study it or engage with it, because that feeds it 90 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:53.839 and gives it energy. Right I remember that part? Yeah, yeah, 91 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:57.000 And so what are some of the if you don't mind touching on some of 92 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:01.160 the other possibilities of you know, when you were thinking all these lines of 93 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:07.240 what they could be, well, inevitably I was attracted to the idea of 94 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:13.759 simulation theory, the idea that essentially we are living in a construct, that 95 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:20.720 the observable universe is really just a computer program or or something like that, 96 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:26.560 a simulation. I mean, rather like we see in the Matrix movies, 97 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:33.080 for example. And if that's the case, the question then arises, well, 98 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.799 what are we are We Are we like a reality show? Are we 99 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:45.120 an arcade game? Are we a science experiment? And in all of those 100 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:50.159 scenarios, those are things that have a sort of end point. Somebody at 101 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.519 the end of the day says, Okay, this has gone off track, 102 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.639 let's pull the plug or game over. Well are we going to hit that? 103 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:03.039 And is that what the phenomenon is, or you know, does the 104 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:09.200 phenomenon kind of support that theory? In which case that would be a secret 105 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.679 about this that perhaps would be too terrible to be told. How could you 106 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:22.120 tell people that we're in a simulation that or alternatively another possibility, what if 107 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.960 we are being farmed harvested. You listen to the abduction reports. If those 108 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.720 are true, we are a resource. And I didn't say this, I 109 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:39.519 don't think I said this in my presentation yesterday, But it's like, imagine 110 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:48.720 ass us as the product being farmed and harvested for something, whether it's DNA 111 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:54.000 samples for a hybridization program, whatever it is. Some people say our souls, 112 00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:00.720 whatever you believe, but it's like, if that's true. When a 113 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:05.840 rancher moves the cattle around, he doesn't consult the cows. So you know, 114 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.799 what if we are the cows. So those are the sorts of ideas 115 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:15.519 that I unpacked. And then the time travel I think it's interesting. I 116 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:20.960 spoke with you after just briefly about I had a scientist on my show a 117 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.159 while back and he said, you know, there has been enough time that 118 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.759 the Earth had oxygen, etc. To move ahead. There could have been 119 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:33.039 civilizations that there's no sign of now. I don't know how true that is. 120 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.120 I'm not a scientist myself, but you mentioned what if there're time travels 121 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:41.279 from the past, and you don't often hear that time travels from the future, 122 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:46.799 like doctor Michael Masters talks about and or time travelers from the past. 123 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.799 Either way, is you know, really something to think about and all the 124 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.440 paradoxes that could happen, and it would explain some of the things you know 125 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:03.320 absolutely and time travelers from When I talk about this, usually I speculate time 126 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.720 travelers from the future. I threw in time travelers from the past just because 127 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:13.200 my presentation yesterday was a speculative cover all the bases one, and I thought, 128 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.879 why not why not throw it in and one sees all these arguments. 129 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:24.039 Yes, the Earth is about four point three million years old a billion pardon 130 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:31.039 me, Yes, the ape human split was somewhere between five and seven million 131 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.919 years ago. Anatomically modern humans walk the Earth for maybe only two hundred thousand 132 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:43.360 years. So with a four point three billion year old Earth, and with 133 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:50.360 even the most mighty buildings collapsing into dust and things after a few thousands of 134 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:56.720 years, probably yes, who's to say it's not possible that previous civilizations have 135 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:01.960 emerged and fallen and been replaced. I mean, on a lesser scale. 136 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.960 It seems that almost every month where we're finding out, you know, lost 137 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:16.360 cities, as we use new scientific techniques, we're pushing back the human timeline. 138 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.039 Even so, maybe there are some even bigger discoveries to make. But 139 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.399 let's suppose it's time travelers from the future. Well, that would explain why 140 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:35.440 many people see apparently essentially humanoid creatures the grays, because in this scenario, 141 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:41.480 that's what we evolve into. Yes, right, right, And I'm not 142 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:46.519 sure about you know, I was just listening to Mark d'antonio's presentation. He 143 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:52.080 was talking about the asymmetrical situation like beings, and certain beings are like that. 144 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:58.799 But I always think of on other planets. There's so many variables. 145 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:03.159 I mean a lot of this dorus have a binary I mean solar systems are 146 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.320 binary, and you know, how would that affect a gravity, and how 147 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:13.360 would that affect evolve evolving species in different ways? And there's so many variables 148 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.279 on how species can evolve. And yet you're right, you know a lot 149 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.279 of what people claim they see is a lot like us. So yes, 150 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:28.600 that might be because it is time travel from the future. But as again 151 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:31.440 I said in my presentation, none of these things are mutually exclusive. So 152 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:37.600 it's perfectly possible to have a scenario where you would have time travelers from the 153 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:43.720 future, but you would also have extraterrestrials. And I suspect that while in 154 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:54.399 this vast infinite universe, there might be trillions of civilizations, so a lot 155 00:13:54.440 --> 00:14:00.679 of variety. I'm also a fan of a sort of convergent evolution on a 156 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:05.679 universal scale, in that if a design works, it works. So just 157 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:11.759 as we have convergent evolution here on Earth, we may well find that forms 158 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:18.519 that work just arise through natural processes. And again, one of the constants 159 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:26.639 I suspect in the universe will be random mutation and natural selection and self evidently 160 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:33.559 the change that best suits the environment and gives that life form and advantage will 161 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:39.440 be selected for. So actually, you know, we may well find that 162 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:45.080 this is pretty pretty useful. You know, eyes to see, a mouth 163 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:50.639 and a vocal voice box and vocal cords to communicate, a written language, 164 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.519 opposable thumbs to hold things and build things and write things, legs to move 165 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:03.200 around. Yeah, so we might find in the universe some very very different 166 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:09.200 life but we might find some that's stunningly similar. Yeah. Yeah, right, 167 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:15.279 And I'm just going to change gears a little bit here. And how 168 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:20.399 do you think AI is going to affect the UFO world, Because I'm a 169 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:26.080 little concerned about that right now, because I really feel like anyone that sends 170 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:30.440 me a picture now sends you a picture, sends videos or whatever, we 171 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.879 can't really rely on those anymore. With I don't know if you've seen some 172 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.519 of these things, but they're incredible what they can recreate. I mean, 173 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.159 I'm just wondering how you feel about as we move forward, how we are 174 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:48.240 going to be able to get anyone to believe anything well, I think we 175 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.240 had the same debate when photoshop first came in, of course, and then 176 00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:00.919 you know, what we found was that various tools were developed to spot fakes 177 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:06.000 and to spot images that had been used previously for example. So that so 178 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:11.720 there are sites like reverse search or whatever it's called. So I regard this 179 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.879 as rather like an arms race, where you have a missile and then you 180 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.120 have an anti missile, and then you have an anti anti missile. So 181 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:22.600 yes, I agree with you that AI will be a problem in terms of 182 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:30.200 things like fake videos and photos. But then I suspect other AI tools will 183 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:36.639 be developed to spot things that have been done with AI that might help. 184 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:41.159 And I think, as with all things in life, AI in relation to 185 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:47.120 the UFO community will bring both threats like the one we've discussed, but opportunities. 186 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:52.639 And one of the big opportunities is once we actually have the vast archive 187 00:16:53.000 --> 00:17:00.759 of paper databases, whether they move on databases, whether the government bases like 188 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.519 the UK Midustry Defense, whatever it is. Once we have all that digitized, 189 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:14.119 AI will play a huge role in trend analysis, in going through big 190 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:19.599 data, big information and finding the patterns that human analysts may not have spotted. 191 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:25.240 Yeah, and there's a lot of people talk about the medical field that 192 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:30.440 it could really be very progressive in moving forward into you know, possibly cancer 193 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.200 research, things like that. You know, I mean, there's it's a 194 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.720 it's an incredible tool. I think, yes, I think it may well 195 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:45.759 play I think it already is, but a much more profound role in diagnosis. 196 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.680 So, for example, we have a lot at the moment of sort 197 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:56.279 of telemedicine or online thing where you put in your your symptoms and somebody will 198 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.400 go off a checklist. Well, I suspect AI will get better and better 199 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:04.240 at that, and it may be able to do other things like for example, 200 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:10.960 I read just the other day about a woman who was capable of smelling 201 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:15.640 people and detecting Parkinson's disease, and it turned out there was there was some 202 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:22.839 really obscure reason why this worked, and her hit rate was way higher than 203 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:29.960 chance alone would have allowed. And so I wonder if there aren't ways of 204 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:37.359 looking at apparently healthy people. Now I'm not I don't like over diagnosis, 205 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.240 and there's always a danger of people getting so many tests and becoming obsessed with 206 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:47.279 it. But what if AI could be used to look at people's physical appearance 207 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:55.799 to maybe detect you know, smells or you know, whether it's chemical composition 208 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.480 of breath, something in the skin, whatever it might be. So that 209 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:07.079 would be some thing. But also of course running through immense combinations or potential 210 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:15.519 combinations of drugs chemicals to make new drugs for treatments, So that would be 211 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:21.519 a possibility. I mean, I think AI is already and will increasingly change 212 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:23.680 the world. What I touched on yesterday, of course, was the idea 213 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:30.960 that you know, is any of this already sentient or close to becoming sentient? 214 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:36.599 And if life has evolved elsewhere in the universe, which I'm convinced it 215 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:42.160 has, is some of that life now has it evolved from biological to post 216 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:48.039 biological, either through through sort of transhumanism or trans alienism, if I can 217 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:56.519 call it that, or simply that biological extraterrestrials created AI programs, which which 218 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:04.559 then effectively evolved and either overthrew or just overtook their biological creators, and might 219 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:11.880 first contact be with AI. And if so, maybe they won't land on 220 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:17.680 the White House lawn, but maybe they'll reach out a sort of digital tantril 221 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:22.000 into some of our computers and AI systems, in which case that might be 222 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:30.319 detectable. How about that great thinking. So getting back to the extraterrestrial hypothesis, 223 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:37.160 which I think is definitely a very big possibility of what we are seeing 224 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:42.759 here in some form or another. I'm sure you hear the argument, which 225 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:47.799 I hear have heard constantly since has started the show. They can't get here 226 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:51.640 from there. You know, it's too vast, you know, a distance 227 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.960 for even the nearest star. And I have always thought, well, maybe 228 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:59.680 they figured out something we have not yet, or something in physics we just 229 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.599 haven't discovered, or something like that. And I just wanted to hear what 230 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:07.039 you're take in general when you oppose that question. Sure, well, let's 231 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:11.759 start with your point. Absolutely, it may be that there are workarounds to 232 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:18.640 the apparent impenetrable barrier of light speed. And those workarounds, of course, 233 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.119 might be wormholes, they might be warp drives. People talk a lot about 234 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.599 the Alqubari warp drive, for example. So there may be something like that. 235 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:33.240 But let's suppose for a moment that there isn't doesn't matter, because in 236 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:41.000 a universe nearly fourteen billion years old, there might be civilizations out there with 237 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:47.279 a billion year head start on us. And if those civilizations, let's just 238 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:51.720 say, in our galaxy for the time being, and even in the nearby 239 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:57.640 part of our galaxy, had sent probes, Let's suppose those probes were no 240 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:07.240 faster than our pioneer or voyager probes, you know, which would take broadly 241 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:11.720 speaking, had we aimed those at Proximu CENTII, the nearest star aside from 242 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:18.079 our son, they would take about seventy or seventy to seventy five thousand years 243 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.240 to get there, right, And so that's you know, but that's not 244 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:29.160 a long time compared to the sort of time scales that we just discussed in 245 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:34.720 terms of civilization a billion years ahead of us. So, if that's the 246 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:45.039 scenario, without needing to invoke any kind of new physics like wormholes or warp 247 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.519 drive, just taking our own current level, which we know is possible because 248 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:56.400 we've done it, then it is absolutely feasible that the galaxy could be full 249 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:03.200 of probes from other civilizations just traveling between the stars at sub light speed. 250 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:11.119 And I suspect that actually, without again, without needing to invoke warp drive 251 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.359 and wormhole, I suspect that we'll be able to do something a lot faster 252 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:22.240 than pioneer and voyager probes. We might be able to get up to say 253 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:29.279 point ten that's point one point two of light speed, in which case my 254 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:37.960 argument is even more iron clad that there is plenty of time for other civilizations 255 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:45.160 to have evolved and sent probes here without offending against any of the laws of 256 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.160 physics, although, of course, as I always say, it's not the 257 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:53.119 laws of physics. It's the laws of physics as currently understood, and our 258 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:59.200 understanding of the laws of physics is constantly changing and evolving. Right. I 259 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:07.160 had an astra physicists on the show that claims that there's a possibility of about 260 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:11.799 a billion earthlike planets in just our galaxy, and that's something to really ponder, 261 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:17.039 you know, considering how many billions and billions of galaxies there are, 262 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:26.799 and so if they have evolved, it just makes me wonder why the pale 263 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:32.079 blue dot, Why would they come to see us? If there's that many 264 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:37.279 possibilities of life and then possibly intelligent life out there. I just have always 265 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:44.440 pondered, why would we be visited or are they're visiting every civilization they can 266 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.279 find. I suspect they would want to visit every civilization, because to truly 267 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:56.440 ancient civilizations in the universe, newly emerging civilizations like ours might be the last 268 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:02.319 interesting thing in the cosmos. And who wouldn't want to do some anthropology and 269 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:07.160 see how any new civilization is going to develop? And sure, this is 270 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:12.720 another point that I think I made in my presentation, but if not, 271 00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:17.799 I'll make it here anyway. We are unlikely. Of course, it's one 272 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:25.039 of the few good assumptions because of the engineering challenges of interstellar travel. And 273 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:30.359 it's one of the few good assumptions that visiting extraterrestrials will have technology orders of 274 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:36.519 magnitude above and beyond anything we have. That being the case, we are 275 00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:41.400 not going to have anything to teach them about science, technology, anything like 276 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.799 that. But and this speaks to you, why would they come here? 277 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:55.359 All the abstract things art, literature, poetry, architecture, all those things 278 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:04.799 I think will be unique to civilizeations. Every civilization probably goes through a fairly 279 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:11.960 structured phase of discovery and development, not least because some things can really only 280 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:21.079 be invented after you've invented something else. So you can't invent the motor car 281 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:26.200 without having first invented the wheel as an example. So I suspect that all 282 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:34.720 civilizations go through a phase that they would develop a spoken language and then a 283 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:44.160 written language to communicate information and make plans and things like that, that they 284 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:55.480 would discover how to harness and make fire, the wheel, agriculture, urban 285 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:03.519 society's flight, the internal combustion engine. All. I suspect those things are 286 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:07.480 fairly standard across the universe, because, in a sense, they'd have to 287 00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:12.039 be for any You can't just jump. You can't just jump. Any civilization 288 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:19.839 coming here must have a probably a propulsion system that we haven't quite figured out 289 00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:25.279 yet. But to get into space in the first place, you probably have 290 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:29.400 to go through rockets, and before rockets, flight before flight. So there's 291 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:36.799 a sequence. But there's probably only ever been one van Go in the universe. 292 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:45.359 One Mozart, one Bach, one Da Vinci, one David Bowie, 293 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.759 one Beatles, and then you know, so I'm sure a lot of maybe 294 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:56.400 most civilizations will have music. And I'm going to just ask you what you 295 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.279 thought about that, because I've thought of because I do a lot of thinking 296 00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:03.880 about this too. You know, what was the equivalent of a first kiss, 297 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.519 a first car? Music? What would music be like you know, 298 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.119 and it's very interesting to ponder all that. I think, so yes, 299 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:18.200 and I think these things. You know, all life obviously wants to preserve 300 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.000 its own existence. Finder may reproduce food, shelter, all those things. 301 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:30.599 But I think what sets apart of civilization from just a successful life form is 302 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:37.359 organization, but also curiosity, which I think is inextricably linked to intelligence and 303 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:45.240 creativity. So I suspect that most civilizations in the universe will will have music, 304 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.119 and obviously they'll have architecture. I mean, that's just how you build 305 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:55.440 things. But the styles will be interesting to see for sure. But I 306 00:28:55.480 --> 00:29:02.240 think those random, those more abstract things like art, literature, music, 307 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:11.119 poetry, those will be the things that civilizations do in unique ways. And 308 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:17.119 even if a lot of things are standard across the cosmos, we'll have some 309 00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:23.200 new and different things, even to truly ancient civilizations who've seen it all before, 310 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.160 because they won't have seen this before. Yeah, this is excellent. 311 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:32.720 It's been really very enjoyable, and thank you for your time and being here 312 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:37.200 and doing what you do well. Thank you, And I've enjoyed the conversation 313 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.039 because it's taken us to some more interesting places than frankly a lot of the 314 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:48.400 fairly standard interviews go. Who knew that we'd finished up talking about, you 315 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.319 know, where the aliens are going to like the Beatles and what an extraterrestrial 316 00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.039 version of vang Go might be like. But that's effectively where we've landed. 317 00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.000 Yeah, and I love it. Okay, thank you, thank you. 318 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:06.839 Yah. All right, that's it, so please jump over to Kevin Day 319 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.119 the next if you're watching live that is, and that should be right up 320 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.599 on the YouTube channel or Facebook, et cetera. Thanks so much, everyone 321 00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:42.160 thought it was a great conversation and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.