Hi, everybody, Welcome back to Coming Out Pod. Hello, Happy Pride
Month. It's been a couple months off, and as promised, I am
doing new episodes for Pride. I would not let a Pride go by without
having my voice in your ear holes. So yeah, I hope everyone has
been doing well. I'm very excited about this episode. I've been looking for
like a guest to kind of have like a like a like a bang uplifting
like opening to Pride, and I'm really excited about who I'm going to be
speaking to today. But first off, so I haven't done queer Root shout
outs in several months. I did post on the Instagram. I was like,
hey, does anyone have a suggestion for a queer Root shout out for
this first episode back after the hiatus. Within a couple hours of posting that,
two different people have suggested this one, So shout out to you if
you are queer root. Is the movie Bend It? Like Beckham, this
is one that I am. I am deeply embarrassed to say I have not
seen this movie, which is shameful. If you also have not seen it,
let's all make a vow to correct this during Pride Month. Let's all
watch Bend It like Beckham. If we haven't seen it, this is the
movie that put Kiera Knightley on the map. Yeah it is. I'm sure
you've heard of it if you haven't seen it. But yet, two people
immediately suggested this as a queer root shout out. So if that affected your
young soccer playing heart, shout out to you. So, without further ado,
I am here today with Heather May. Hello, Heather. Hi.
Heather is coming to us from Nashville and she is a singer and activist.
When we're recording this, it is the day after her song and video Kissing
Girls just released, and we're going to talk a lot about that. And
when I watched the video, I was like, Oh, this is absolutely
someone I want to kick off pride with. It's just like it's so it's
beautiful, it's like it's moving, it's fun. It's just yeah, I'm
really excited to speak to you about this song in this video. But yeah,
welcome, Hello, Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Thank
you so much for asking me. Oh I'm so thrilled when you reached out
because yeah, I'm just I'm so excited about what you're doing. And your
story. And before I ask how you identify, is there anything you want
to just say, you know, casual like to the listeners before we get
into how you identify and all that. Hello, everybody, happy pride.
I'm so excited to be spending a little bit of time with you, just
telling you a little bit about my story because I think that all stories,
all of our coming out stories, are so individual. But yeah, I'm
excited to be spending some time with you. Thank you. Likewise, so
yeah, let's jump into it. How do you identify? Yeah, my
pronouns or she her, I identify as queer. My answer, I think
a year ago would have been a queer femme, although recently I've been playing
around with my expression, which has been really fun, and so uh yeah,
I think I'm just going to stick with just queer. Ask me a
year from now and oh please. Yeah. That's why I we do these
I do these things called Reducs episodes where I will have guests back after a
number of years to talk about like, oh yeah, like fantastic, so
yeah, transition yeah, so oh it's amazing. Yeah, which is kind
of a part of my story actually is not really telling myself you have to
decide right now, and so I'm in that flux. I'm in that position
right now. It's very interesting. I'm doing a podcast about that. But
yeah, but I identify as queer. I'm also poly and I am a
singer activist, and just like the word queer, I'm also genre bending as
well as identity bending. Yeah, I write and I produce and I record,
and I predominantly write and record and produce in the pop world. But
over the last couple of years, I've been really enjoying writing in Americana and
alternative, which has been really fun. And so actually I'm releasing singles off
of what is actually two different records that are going to come out next year.
Oh, very cool. That's very cool. All right, Well,
let's like, let's jump into it, because yeah, I know that being
from the South is a very relevant part of your story. So yeah,
where does where does everything start? For you? Well? I live in
Tennessee. Now, I live in Nashville, which is a little blue dot
in the state of Tennessee. But I my my story, my story begins
in Virginia outside of d C. I did not grow up with a lot
of stuff my family, you know, we were working folk. And you
know, people think of DC and they think of like, you know,
politicians and technology, and you know, an industry that is always making and
generating money. It's the only part of the country, only district in the
country that when they're you know, world goes into our country goes into a
recession, DC is still thriving. The restaurants are still you know, restauranting
and you know, venues are still open. It's because it's not really impacted
by that. And that's what I grew up nearby. But I didn't really
have a lot growing up. I had a really lovely family, but I
grew up broke as book and so, which actually plays a part in my
story because what your listeners can't see is that I'm actually a fat woman,
and I have always been fat. When I was younger, I was that
fat kid running around on the basketball court. My body has just always been
bigger, and so, you know, growing up, I didn't actually know
that I was fat. I just was a kid, right. I grew
up with the same kids, I went to the same school. I lived
across the street from my elementary school. Everybody knew me as one of the
kids that lived in that crazy house across the street from the elementary school.
How big was your family where you like you were like I was the baby
of four. Okay, yeah, baby of four, A bunch of all
sluid children just run around that house and yeah, we you know, I
didn't know that my body was different until I moved across town. And when
I moved across town, my and I started going to a new elementary school.
I was in fourth grade. And when I went to my first day
of school, my nickname from my bullies began. My first name is Heather,
and they started calling me Heffer, and that nickname stuck until you know,
I graduated high school, and for the first time in my life,
I felt othered. And that was the beginning of me experiencing what I know
now to be a low swing of depression because I had bipolar disorder, which
I didn't actually get diagnosed until I was in my mid twenties. And I
would come home, like every single day from this new school, and I
would walk into you know, my house, and you know, I was
a latchkey kid, so nobody was there except for my brother, and I
would watch music videos from TRL if you remember TRL or like pop up video
on VH one. Yes, oh my god, that was like my life.
I was obsessed with music videos, obsessed with them, which is why
I actually fucking love making music videos. Like I the music video for Kissing
Girls that you saw, that's like, it's actually in my that was recorded
in my house. My partner and I actually host a queer brunch club and
I literally just shot the music video just surrounded. I was like, you
know what I want to do for this, like super queer bisexual pride,
like mega pop song. I want all my friends to come. I just
have a videographer just film this thing. Yeah, so, but we I
can't remember what got me on that. Oh music videos, right, music
videos. So I would run home from the bus and I would watch music
videos and it was I swear, I I swear that that was the only
reason I did not kill myself as like a young eleven year old. Okay,
is because the joy I felt and the excitement I felt from like watching
these music videos. And I remember my mom. My mom was raised atheist,
my dad was raised conservative, Republican Christian household. Yeaw okay. And
what's interesting about this is that my despite their difference, in beliefs. They
they loved one another and they saw each other and you know, they got
married in the seventies. Baby like they were like, you know, live
in their life and like found sweet like hippie love and then like like it
was like he was a conservative Christian, but at the same time he's like
found this like rowdy redhead like running around college campus, and he was like,
yeah, I'm gonna forego that stuff. I'm gonna go after that girl.
Oh. So like they yeah, they didn't like they didn't really like
argue they when I was growing up about Christianity, but I remember around the
time that we moved, my mom was grieving the loss of her mother,
and I remember her saying to my family that she was going to try going
to church, which was kind of a shock because she wasn't really like a
going to church kind of gal like at all, and but she just felt
like she needed hope, which is really interesting, right, because I also
was feeling that as well in an entirely different way and my mom. Later
on in life, I learned my mom actually had bipolar disorder, and so
she started going to church for the grieving of the loss of her mother and
naturally. It's like free childcare, you know what I mean, Like like
you go on Sunday, she can go like have a moment for herself and
like her kids, you know, can go to like Sunday school, right,
and she gets like a moment to herself given the back, she has
four kids. And I found this thing that I I also think kind of
saved my life. Okay, wow, all right, which how old were
you around this time? I was eleven? I was like ten, Well
how old are you in? Like fourth grade? How old? I can't
remember? See second grade? You're like eight? And then yeah, like
ten, eleven, ten something like that, like maybe ten or nine or
ten or something. And I remember going to Sunday school and going to like
children's choir because I started singing, and suddenly, like the bullying stopped.
Really, yes, what a pushpin on the bullying stops? Because what I
found out later is that the bullying didn't stop, it just changed. Okay,
right, but the bullying stopped when I would cross that threshold and go
into the church. Man, the love that was being extended to me,
because that's what these that's what these churches do, right, Oh yeah,
right, Like they're like we love you, and God loves you, and
you're perfect just the way you are, right I do what a pushpin in
that too? Yeah, exactly. And God loves you just the way that
you are because God made you. And so obviously we would never bully you.
In fact, if anybody bullies you, you she'ld let us know because
we will hold them accountable. I was like, this is paradise, obviously,
so excited. I got so into church, like I became like Jesus's
best friend, like biggest advocate, like we were we were bros. And
the really interesting part about this entire thing is that my first kiss was with
a girl. My first like pseudo kind of like relationship was with a girl.
I had crushes on girls my whole life, and I didn't acknowledge any
of them to myself and my entire adolescence. I either had like an ongoing
flirtation crush or relationship that was just like kept right here, like if this
line right here is you know, bestie and just friends like I was just
always just like over top of that very really like sleeping in each other,
sleeping in each other's beds, like going to dances together, dancing together,
writing notes to one another, texting each other or I guess at the time,
I was like instant messenger. And were these girls also in the church?
Okay some of them, some of them okay, okay, without outing
any of them, just because many of them there's just like a part of
it, a part of the story, and that I'm actively releasing music about
is that some of them are like still still Christian. Oh, I'm sure
still in some of some of the communities I was in, if you know
what I'm saying. Absolutely, yep. No, That's why I was wondering
if it was people who you were, you know, spending time with in
choir and Sunday school and stuff like that. So it sounds like there for
sure. And then then like as just to be like so gay, like
I played softball yep, like sure, you know, like as as we
do, and like I was catcher right, like, oh that's right,
that might be the gayest position on the gayest spot. Yeah, I'm gonna
be honest with you. That's that's accurate. Yeah, that's realrect And so
like those were that's where like I I spent like my weekends like every weekend
Wednesday, Thursday night Bible study. Like I spent my summers doing like trips
and like like camps and then teaching at the camps and like huge corp retreats.
I mean, I was fully in. And the reason why, Like
I used to tell my coming out story and it would start when I was
twenty five, Oh sure, yeah yeah, and during that's such an iceberg.
That's that diagram of the iceberg though, where it's like you gotta go
under the water to the bottom of the iceberg exactly. But I never did
that. I never did that. And it wasn't until I was isolated during
the pandemic with my partners and writing music about my truth that I started to
like really, yeah, look back. And it was like because of you
know, we're we're all home, we're not doing anything, We're bored,
so what are you doing? You're like talking to each other and like really
talking. And one of the things that we did is we would spend our
like time, you know, looking back telling stories and my journey and looking
back and telling my story is my partners being like telling you know, they
would be like, oh yeah, it's crazy in my twenties like kissing all
these girls, and I would be like, yeah, No, I didn't
really have that. No, I didn't have that, you know, I
mean I kissed, you know. You know, these are all pseudonyms.
These are all our students. What are the student pseudonyms? Pseudonyms, pseudonyms.
These are all students, Is that right, pseudonyms, pseudonyms. Yeah,
pseudonyms. Although no, I'm questioning it. But your listeners are like,
it's not that it's blank. They're yelling. They're yelling at the radio
right now. Yeah, but like they I would these are all fake names.
But you know, I would be as I would be like, they're
like, you know, in my twenties, like, oh yeah, it's
so crazy, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I don't really
have much like a queer. I didn't have like crazy queer twenties, you
know, I did, you know, but I guess I did kiss like
you know Jackie, and you know there's Tabitha, you know, Lisa oh
Man. Then there was Becca, you know, and I would I would
like look at their faces and they're like I didn't think that that like counted
quote unquot Yeah. Literally, I literally erased the significance of my own queer
story. And it wasn't until I spoke those things out loud, and my
partners are like looking at me, like wide eyed, and they're like,
dude, that is your queer story. Yeah yeah that I was like,
wait, what why? Why don't I acknowledge that? And so that was
the beginning of me looking back like the past couple of years, which is
really what these like songs like that's what kissing Girls is about. It's been
looking back. So so you can, oh, can I ask I want
to interpretal quick, because I'm really curious. Did you have you and the
girls who were part of these like quasi relationships slash like kissing et cetera.
Did you have an instinct to like hide that even though you didn't think it
was like wrong or was there still like where did that live in terms of
your like yeah awareness? Yeah. So I also grew up in the purity
movement, so and I was like not just like in it, I was
like about it, like I was like in like the recruitment and the Oh
Wow worship band at the cor conferences. Did you wear a ring that's a
thing right, the perod Oh? I sure did. Okay, You're like,
yeah, it's called I was out. Yeah, it's called The True
Love Waits Ring and I wore mine from I don't know, probably when I
was like thirteen to twenty one. Wow, oh yeah we have when I
say I went hard for Jesus, like I mean, yeah, you were
doing outreach for him. Yeah, no, I mean it was it.
And it's like I now look back on that, like I'm actively doing like
shame releasing about that because the lives that like I impacted, Like I can't
even reach out to any of those people because I don't remember them. Like
it was just like handing out flyers at the mall and being like, hey,
like there's this really cool thing. It's like a women's gathering, Like
it's this weekend. There's pizza, and like that was it like to get
teenagers to come do something? And like is you just got to offer late
it's pizza, you know yep. And like I was to answer your question
about like did you have an inkling to hide it? I had an inkling
to hide everything everything, because anything at all, any kind of like long
stare, any kind of like hand graze, any kind of crush, any
kind of anything was forbidden. Oh so gender was even a step beyond that.
It was like having any feelings about anyone. Yeah, yeah, it
was. It was like it was something And you know what's so fucked up
about this, Like I'm even sitting here, I'm like, so to be
totally honest, I don't even have the answer to some of the questions that
you might sure because I'm like actively doing That's one of the reasons why I
wrote this song and I wrote this record is because like I know, I'm
not alone in that. Like I read this one book it's called Pure by
Linda ka Klein, and I read it in like twenty twenty two, yeah,
twenty twenty two, and it blew my mind because I had the thing
is, you don't even know the impact of it because they don't want you.
They don't tell you that it's impactful at the time, which I know
might not make any sense, but the indoctrination is so it's so like clever
and it's done with love, and yeah, well that's how they get so
many people, especially like you're saying, folks who are bullied, who are
other who are raving, Like it's they come in like the way that they
tell girls when they walk into a church, like like of course I'm saving
myself to marriage. Because when they tell me that, like then when they
when they look at when they look at you, and they're like they read,
they read stories from the Bible about women like brushing their hair and preparing
their bodies and bathing and and and and taking care of their you know,
the pottery of their body and like preparing themselves for the marriage of blah blah
blah, or like she took a bath and cleansed her impurities so that she
could get on her knees and pray. You know those things. When they
say stuff like that, they weren't telling me you need to get on the
ground, you need to wash your body, and you need to pray.
They're not saying that, especially because I grew up in the Methodist Church and
I was involved in non denominational like outreach, like separate things like the Evangelical
movement, like conferences and get togethers and mission trips and da da da da.
But like the Methodist Church is like roll. They're kind of like everything
is fine. Every It's like the pearls are in the right place. Da
da. Like it's very like quiet, yeah, and you don't know,
but like that whole time I learned how to be a very good girl.
So when the purity movement stuff came up, I learned how to be a
very good wife at the age of like eleven. Oh god, yeah.
And they always said man for a man for a man, So when I
kissed girls, okay, I was like, well, this is just practice.
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, you know, yeah, so
you don't necessarily think there's something wrong with it because it's so invalidated that you
don't even think it's anything. Like literally, but here's the thing about this
stuff, like I can't even I couldn't even come up like I'm hearing your
that sentence you just said, like it's so invalidated, like you don't even
think it's anything. I still, to this day can't even find some of
the right words to be able to describe it. It's a miracle I'm even
able to have this interview. Like it's still the indoctrination runs so deep.
But that's when I read this book Pure. She was like, there's this
one part of the book where she describes how like piano players, you know,
if they're trained to play a chord, always the exact same way with
their pinky finger and their index finger going at the same time. You know
this one chord. If you then tape that pinky to another finger, it's
still no matter what. Any time you go, it will try and make
it. And they track this in the brain that like, even when you
try and rewire the brain or stop it from doing it, it will Because
of habit. You have now linked those things together, and you might be
able to still play the chord. You might be able to still do the
thing, But doesn't mean that that pinky doesn't move. And so she was
like when a person from the age when a woman, when a person or
not just a woman, because fuck that everybody's impacted by it, trans people,
non binary people, women and men. When a person is taught from
the age of eleven or eight that sex is bad, sex is meant only
in this very specific context, is only not even meant allowed, is okay,
is approved of by a higher power in this specific way and specific time,
specific place. If you have it outside of those parameters that this higher
power has told you is okay, then every time you do it, shame
happens. And that they've proven that people who have walked away from the church.
I'm as queer as they come. I'm queer, I'm kinky, I'm
polly. I do a lot of freaky shit, and I still to this
fucking day, my body will freeze. Oh sure, yeah, yeah,
Pick a day, pick a time. I could be in the middle.
I could be strapped down, strapped on, I could have lingerie on,
or be absolutely completely naked. I could be in the middle it. I
could be at a restaurant, in a cafe and my partner might ask one
question, or a new bau or like a sweetie that I'm interested might ask
me something and I get triggered. My whole body will shut down. Yeah,
it's trauma response, exactly, exactly, And that was the way I
was. I was just like accepted, like sometimes I just don't Sometimes I
just shut down. And to be honest, I thought it was a response
to being a survivor. I really thought that was what it is, and
not to invalidate that trauma at all, but I know there are times when
it's definitely not that. Yeah, right, it's not a body shutting down.
It's a mind going I feel like I can't answer that question, and
I don't know why. It's weird. It's like a fog. I fucking
found out what that fog was. Dude, I found out what that fog
was. That fog was totally mental. It was I don't know what I
want because I was told never to know. I was told, I was
told that this is bad and I shouldn't do it. And it's it's not
a body shut down, it's a brain. Yeah. Yeah, And so
like looking back, like I I remember one time, I remember one time
writing, am I a lesbian? In my? In my? Or what
if I? What if I am alone? Because like I'm a pisces and
our songwriter, so like I've been journaling since like forever, you know,
and I remember writing like what if I'm a lesbian? Oh my god,
that would be the worst. God would hate me. I would have to
kill myself like all this like stuff. And I remember crumpling it up and
being like that's crazy, no way, and like throwing it away and never
thinking about it ever again because of course, I like boys, that's what
I was gonna ask, which must be so confusing, and this I got
out inside of Yeah, when I found the word compet I was like shook.
I was absolutely shook. During the pandemic. Was that document? Was
it the Lesbian Master Doc. I don't know, I can't remember. I
just saw I think I just literally saw a TikTok of somebody. I bet
it was that yeah, this is yeah, yeah Compet and I was like,
wait, what is what is that? And that blew all my shit
up talking about that stuff with my partners and all the kisses and my queer
story and the self erasure, talking about it in therapy, learning about Compet,
and then reading in twenty twenty two, reading Pure, I was like,
I'm going to burn this shit to the girl. What's like so fucking
I'm like, well, I know what my next album is about, and
that's that's that's what I'm doing now, that's what I'm talking about, what
I'm so curious about, And this is where I go outside of my own
experience. Well that's not true because I'm gay, but I had crushes on
boys that felt real and were real, like in as much as you know
aesthetic attraction all that, the split attraction model, blah blah blah, but
I imagine for someone were you also experiencing attraction and interest that was in boys
at this time? I was, I imagine, so that must make the
girls stuff feel even more in valid absolute because you're you're feeling this real thing
and people are supporting it out loud exactly, so like, why would you
think the other thing counts? Like it's so confusing. That's just welcome to
me being fourteen years old. Yeah, there was this one girl that I
was like just best friends with and I I loved her, and I didn't
know I loved her. Yeah, And I didn't know I loved her until
I was thirty three years old. Oh wow, yeah yeah, and I
told her Yeah when you realized it thirty three, yep, I did.
Oh my. We hadn't spoken in like decades, and I was like,
I need to talk to you, mm hmm. And it was received with
so much love and so much sweetness. It was you know, it was
a good story. It was really good story. But the acknowledgment of it
for myself was so healing to say to myself like I think I was in
love with you, or I know that I was in love with you,
and for her to be like, yeah, I know, I didn't know
it then too. I didn't know it then either, that I knew you
were in love with me, and to hear her be like I wasn't afraid
of it. Oh wow, I know, dude, I know she said,
like everything right, everything right. Yeah, She's like such a It
was such a great like allied moment. It was really great. Yeah wow.
But I I you know, I wore that True Love Waits ring.
I had boyfriends, you know, I was, but I was me,
you know, I would like toad that lie and like it's like wearing the
True Love Winks ring and giving a hand job in the back of my car,
you know what I mean, Like I what it is though, isn't
it like that's what I hear about the whole periodic culture thing. Oh yeah,
it's like totally yeah. So and then I, you know, I
went off to college and I went to school in in New York City and
I studied musical theater, you know, and all my friends were gay.
Yeah, my friends were gay. And I remember there was this one girl
and and she came back after our first year and she she was a super
I mean, she was like super diikey, you know what I mean.
Like she was like full on lesbian, Like she wore her hair low,
like she had a like low pony like basketball player low pony, slicked back.
And then she came back our secon our second year of college, and
she had cut her hair off, and I was like, cook, what,
Like, I am unwell? And that was the year that I learned
that, but can I this is what's so crazy about this. I still
did not realize that my, oh my god, who are you? What's
happening? And I would talk to her like that, like I would be
like, Hi, You're so cute. She's like, thank you so much.
What do you do? Are you flirting with me? And I'm like
no, but kind of yeah. And I would go home and I would
lay in my bed and I would think about her and do the things that
we do right, And I still had no idea, did not acknowledge that
that was a crush. Mm hmm. I have heard this on this podcast.
I bet you have so many times. Yeah, the denial that we
it goes so deep and it starts so young that it's like and there is
a big part of me that thinks that that's like preferable because the other side
of that is the people who did know and were tortured by it. And
this is that thing that's the whole like put a pushpin on the put a
push pin on the bullying, on the bullying. The reason I didn't want
to come out, I really I had a lot of anger, Like when
I first realized this in like twenty twenty, I had a lot of anger
about the life I could have lived right, the queerness that I could have
had. Yeah, And I think it's there's a lot of queer people who
do There's a lot of people who are angry, and I do not want
to raise there there there that's not It's not like it's not valid. It
is very valid. That anger is so valid, But maybe just offer some
perspective to anybody who also feels that way too. For me, I when
I looked back, it's not enough to just be like, damn it,
I could have been queer. To truly look back, I had to I
had to think about what it would have been like for me to come out
as queer. I would have lost my entire community. I would have been
not only bullied in school for being fat and a redhead and pale and freckled,
but then also gay. I had bipolar disorder, undiagnosed with tendencies for
it extreme depression. I think I didn't come out because I knew I was
protecting myself. I think I probably would have died. I would have killed
myself. I'm alive because I made that decision not to come out doesn't mean
that what happened is okay. It's a yes and situation. As a poly
person, I'm very familiar with yes and And I think that's a lot of
that is in there, Like I didn't come out and I actually saved my
life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that makes a lot of
sense. So but you know, here I am in college and like I
meet this girl and I kept like, you know, dating guys in New
York. And that's when I, you know, I left. I graduated
because I went to a two year training conservatory for musical theater, and I
all of my friends were gay, like so many of them were gay and
trans, and you know, bye, and I was just like still this
like straight ally super straight eye. But I remember that the non denominational church
that I went to in New York started talking about gay marriage and how gay
people, in like a very loving way, were like oh hate yeah,
oh yeah. Non denominational people are like, hey, come hang out with
us. It's so loving. But like also like don't do these things,
okay, because like God will send you to help. Okay, Okay,
it's like hate the sin, love the sinner. You can come to church.
I love you. Yeah, okay, okay, talking a loving way
with an asterisk. Oh yeah, yeah they surprised. Yeah, so they
they had this like they started talking about like gay people are going to go
to hell. And that was that was it for me. I was like,
I gotta walk away from church. I gotta way away from God.
I've heard this too. That's when a lot of people, yeah left,
yeah right, And so I took a really big break away from the church
and from God around that time. And you know, I just I start
being like a full time musician. I started writing and living in my car
driving around the country. And it was at that time that I met my
now ex partner. But I met them and it changed everything. It was
you are my person and oh my god, everything's changing. And that was
really when I actually finally came out when I was twenty five. Hey,
wow, where what state did you mean emotionally? Or Oh that's a great
yeah, unintended double on toagre no. But it sounds like you were living
this nomadic kind of yea lifestyles. So I'm curious like what their experience was
depending on where they were living, and like, yeah, they were living
in North Carolina and they had just graduated college. They were a couple years
younger than just a couple and I had I had met them in Colorado out
of music okay, oh okay, okay. And were they out were they
like yeah, fully realized or okay, okay, yeah, gotcha yep,
And they were like, oh my god, don't I'm not going to fall
for this straight girl. Yeah, totally. So when I came out to
my parents, you know, my dad was mowing the lawn and like I
said, my my my parents are Christian, but they're like, you know,
Christian, former hippies, like liberal, Like I grew up with my
mom having you know, one of her best friends was a gay guy,
and like, you know, like my parents were always like they were democrats,
you know. Okay, so okay, when I came out my dad,
my dad was mowing the lawn and I like, I was like,
hey, I gotta I gotta talk to you. He like turned off the
mower and walked over. I was like, I just need to tell you
something. I can't wait anymore. And it's like really bothering me. But
like I think that I, well, i'm dating a woman. I don't
know what I am, but like I'm starting to see a woman. And
he was like, okay, hey, would you mind getting me a glass
of water? Oh? And like that was that was how I came out
to my dad. Yes, then my mom. I told her in the
car because it's the only time I could get her, just her and not
like a bunch of other people. And I told her and her I was
like, I need to tell you something, and she goes, oh my
god, you're pregnant. And I was like, why do you always ask
me that? She's like, because you're you're like me and you're the fourth
child. And I just I always think so every time I would say something
to her, she always asked me if I'm bringant, So it's like a
whole thing. So but she's like, why I tell her? You know,
I'm dating a woman, and I, you know, start to cry,
and because I told her first before my Dad's the first time I'm telling
somebody. And she goes, why are you crying? This should be a
happy thing. Oh gosh. And I feel like that sentence like says it
all about, like what my life is like with my parents, Like it's
nothing that I am queer, it's not a big deal that I'm Polly,
and like they don't understand why other parents and people don't support their children,
Like you have one job as a parent, which is to love your child.
Yes, Jesus Christ, Yes, right exactly. I'm so so glad
to hear that. Yeah. And now I am living in Tennessee and I
live here with my partner of five years, who I've known for I mean
almost fifteen years. He was also a musician, Is that correct, that's
right? Yes? Her Instagram a little bit okay, Oh yes, yes,
she's such a cutie. Her name is Chris Matthews spelled c r y
s, and she is She and I were really close friends for the majority
of the time that I've known her, but when we went on tour,
we fell in love. And that's where our that's where our relationship began,
was just being like, oh, you're the best I hope that we can
be best friends for the rest of our lives, and I want to talk
to you every day. And we were both married at the time, and
we both were both really we both really when the tour was over and we
had gone our you know, separate ways, really are I see? Yeah,
that both of us were just what we thought was like, you know,
post tour blues, but it was actually that we were love love sec
yeah, and that's the beginning of our story. Can I ask about the
marriage? You're about your marriage? Yeah? Absolutely? Is that? Okay?
Okay, totally? Yeah, No, I just when did that?
Was that the ex who you referenced that? Okay? Yeah, cool,
that's okay, okay, So that's that's the first person I'm sorry, the
first uh woman you date and they're coming out realization, So that's yep.
And then we also got married. Yeah try together dating people together? Yeah,
okay, So you're doing you're jumping into the deep end on several different
factors, so that's like a lot okay okay. And with the Polly coming
out, did that happen like almost simultaneously with your queer coming out or like
how oh no, no, no, no, I'm curious. Oh yeash,
I don't think my heart could have handled you know, all of that
lesbian processing was like coming out coming time? Was she already identifying as Polly
when you met together later on, Yeah, yeah, we did that together.
So when I came out, you know, at the time, so
he's he's actually he his pronouns are he him? Okay? Together? During
his transition? Oh my god? Is he? Is? He mentioned in
the song is he the last verse of the okay gotcha together? Okay?
Yeah, and yeah, he's such a big part of my coming out story
and meeting him and at the time, you know, his pronouns were she
her, But meeting him was the opening and revealing opening of myself and the
revealing of all that I did not acknowledge from before m hm. And you
know, even though we're no longer together, I would not be able to
It wouldn't honor my coming out story if I didn't speak, you know,
about him, you know what I mean. And there still is there's still
I mean, there's so much pain from the ending of our marriage. Still,
you know, the loss, the extraction for every single person involved.
But and every single person I know that's ever gotten divorced says the same thing,
which is like, oh gosh, even if you're the one that left,
even if you're the lever, or if you're the one that does the
leaving, there's the extraction of a person from your life is so painful and
so but especially because he was instrumental to my finding myself, that discovering who
I am so true and not to be Like, here's how we have a
harder than storied people. But it's true that breakup. You're not just dealing
with your first breakup, which is devastating regardless of how you identify, but
for queer people, more often than not, we are dealing with that compacted
with the significance of that person in our entire identity and being Oh, it
is harder than it's for Yeah, and I will like, I will acknowledge
that, like this is my first interview about him, Like I'm on tape
right now acknowledging his impact on my store, my coming out story since the
divorce. Oh, I think I appreciate you speaking on it because Yeah,
that's so goddamn herd. And I just love that he's in your song though,
because that's such a like I don't know, like healing or like acknowledgement,
like you're saying, like that's just such a beautiful thing that exists in
perpetuity regardless of where you two are at now. I think when other people
listen to it, they hear they hear not knowing that, you know,
especially new people. You know. I have some fans who are have been
there for ten years and they watch our entire relationship. Wow yeah, and
then they hear the song and they know the story and they know the heaviness
for me behind it. But new fans come in and they hear the song
and they're like, oh, what a way to honor it, just like
you said, like, what a way to honor it? And while that
is true, I now don't sing it for honoring our relationship. I sing
it to and maybe there's a part of me that does. Maybe there is
a part of me that does. But it's for people who love like us,
you know. It's for like there are no love songs, and just
like to reference for the people that are listening, Like I have like a
sneaky third verse at the end of the song that says, and I remember
when you changed your pronouns from her to him and you said do you still
love me? And all I could do is smile, because I've been kissing
girls. I've been kissing boys. I've been kissing girls as long as I've
been kissing boys, and the whole song I've been saying, like like there's
it's like a sweet like bye song, right and then you and it's like
uplifting and like poppy, big drums and stuff like that, and then at
the end you get to this part where it's like also, by the way,
like the reason I kind of wrote this song is because I wanted my
partner to know, like I'm a I'm a by queer girl, like I
love you any form you take, and I see who you are and I
see all of you, and yeah, I love my guy just like I
loved my girl, right, and like I just want you to be you.
And that was true for our entire relationship and it is true now too,
And so I wanted people like us to have a song because to my
knowledge, there are no well, at least, I mean, there are
millions of musicians in the world songwriters, but to my knowledge, I've never
run across a song that says explicitly like I have been loved and I have
loved a trans person, you know, And I am so grateful for the
time that I had with him to be able to I mean, for so
many reasons. I'm grateful millions and millions reasons, but I'm grateful for the
opportunity to be able to write this song because now this song is for everyone
else, for those couples who are going through transition together and are lining in
yeah song, because divorce is really divorce is so like, oh my gosh,
divorce is so high. The divorce rate for trans transit people, couples
and who experience one person going through transition is so high. The divorce rate
is really high. But that's not why we divorced. That's divorce, and
we didn't divorce. It had nothing to do with polyamory. It had nothing
to do with transitioning. It was just we were really good for each other
in our twenties and we're not good for each other in our thirties, you
know. So yeah, I know the song's only literally as we're recording.
It's been out like twenty four just over twenty four hours. But I just
feel like you're going to get so much feedback specifically for that turn at the
end, for the reason that you're saying, because I there aren't or I
haven't heard songs that speak to that specific experience, and it's just it is
such as it's fun and it's poppy, like you're saying, and then it
gives you like a little chills at you. It's just very yeah, and
the video is so beautiful and yeah, yeah, and I know that there
are like there are trans artists out there who are writing their stories and they're
writing these amazing, amazing, beautiful love songs, but from their perspective of
like, yeah, the person who observed and did the caretaking and did the
supporting and the bandage changing and the drain cleaning out and the everything that did
all of that. To have a song where they can look at their beloved
and say this is how I feel about you is yeah. I wanted to
write that for them, and I hope that they do connect with it because
it is a very important part of my coming out. Oh gosh, yeah,
do you want to talk it all about just because you've been doing some
insist stories like and again it's so an it's twenty four hours. But some
of the feedback you've been getting from folks on the sea, yeah, I
have been getting a lot of Oh my god, I feel so seen as
a pan woman. I am currently in a relationship with two people one's a
boy, one's a girl, and it just feels so sweet, you know,
thank you for that sweetness. I'm beginning a lot of that from members
of the bisexual community, people who are just identify as queer. And then
from my fans who are lesbians, who are like, you know, they
see themselves in it because they're like, you know, their younger self is
like I've been kissing girls secretly for so long, like you know. And
and then of course, of course, my fans who are in relationships with
people who are trans have sent me messages and so sweet videos of them slow
dancing to it. Oh forehead kisses. It's oh my god, it's so
sweet. Yeah. But then I'm you know, from the industry. It's
been really great to be acknowledged, Like I got some positive reviews. It's
been really really great. Yeah, I'm so excited. I'm just so excited
for you. I hope it sound like everyone's like Pride playlist. I really
hope so too. I mean, that's really my goal is for it to
be on the top of everybody's Pride playlist. Like yeah, if I'm being
honest, like I would love that so much. So this is a perfect
segue into how can people supported, where is the best place to listen,
where can they watch the video? And also you want to talk about your
your albums that you are going to be releasing, because this is just like
the start of a much bigger project. Yeah right, Yeah, So I've
released four singles now this year. I did two in March, one in
April, and this one in a week before Pride. They can find me.
I'm at Heather May Music on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter, and yeah,
my website's heathermaymusic dot com. And you can listen to the music wherever
you stream or download. And the song is called Kissing Girls. And I
would love for them to send it, not just listen to it, but
then send it to somebody in or out of the closet, because I really
hope it. Yeah, I know there's so many people that share a similar
story to mine, and that's why I'm writing the songs I'm writing. You
know, the bridge says, and I don't know why I'd kiss and tell
about everyone except the ones I felt I should lock away from the light who
put those thoughts there because they're not mine. It doesn't have to be either
or I'm kissing in the sun now, I'm not hiding anymore. And I
feel like the people that listen to that song, who need it, who
share a similar story to mine, you know, they'll feel what we were
hoping, you know, to really put into that song, which is the
sonic embodiment of queer joy and liberation. So yeah, come find me,
come hang out with me. Ah, I love it. You were,
Heather. You were just the perfect ast to kick off Pride. Thank you
so much, thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Oh yeah,
no, this was like I said, I was looking for a guest
to start off the month, and then when your reps reached out and I
watched the video and heard the song, I was like, this is how
I want to start Pride. Amazing love. Thank you for having me,
Lauren. Oh my gosh, thank you for coming on. I'm gonna okay,
let's see if I can remember this. It's been a few months,
so the podcast is at Coming Out pod everywhere that hasn't changed. I'm at
Lauren Flans on Twitter, Lauren Underscore Flans on Instagram. Thank you for those
who are still patrons, thank you. But also, as I said on
Hiatus, please feel free to It's hard times. We're all struggling, we're
all cash strapped, so please if you need to cancel your patronage, totally
get that. I will be releasing another episode to close out Pride one,
so another one coming up. Yeah, And in the meantime, if you
a nice thing to do during Pride, if you haven't done so already,
if you want to rate the pod uh five stars on either Spotify mobile or
on iTunes that is healthful, leave a review or something. But I'm just
so happy to be back and talking to you again. And we'll be releasing
another episode at the end of Pride to celebrate that. Thank you so much,
Heather. Everybody go listen to the song. Scream the song, share
it with your friends, put it on your Pride playlist, and definitely watch
the video. It is just it's so sweet, there's so much love in
it. Yeah, and just such a joy to talk to you. You
too, happy Pride? All right, y'all, I'll see in a few
weeks. Bye bye. My house was loud, hers was quiet, so
we sink down to the basement. But her race as she closed the door.
I guess because I was the bigger one. I play the dad cheek,
play the No. One man, but we always end up kiss I
have been kissing girls as long as I've been kissing boys. Jo with