1 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:21,000 What is krack Lack and fellow Thermo nuclear a efforts. I am Dan Valley 2 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,719 coming at you with the solo podcast episode. It will be a one question 3 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,800 episode. The very quick reminder though, if you're watching or listening to this 4 00:00:28,879 --> 00:00:32,679 for the first time, please consider hitting that subscribe button YouTube, Spotify, 5 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:35,039 Apple, That will help us out of most but wherever you can see us 6 00:00:35,039 --> 00:00:37,759 really helps us. And if you have done those things, tell people about 7 00:00:37,799 --> 00:00:40,880 us, Shout us out on Twitter, quote tweet us, retweet our promos 8 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,039 on Twitter. But again, word of mouth goes a long way as well, 9 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:46,039 and finally join our discords. Link to that is in our podcast and 10 00:00:46,079 --> 00:00:50,880 YouTube descriptions. Always good discussions going on there. And speaking of which, 11 00:00:51,359 --> 00:00:55,039 it was this discussion that inspired this podcast. I want to take a break 12 00:00:55,079 --> 00:01:00,600 from just talking about the everyday stuff and go macro here. But it's Allen 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:06,920 and our discord had essentially asked, why is the MVP debate so hotly contested 14 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,120 in the NBA, seemingly, you know, relative to other sports where it 15 00:01:11,159 --> 00:01:18,079 doesn't become as vehema hit an issue in the NFL, or MLB or NHL. 16 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:19,480 And it was a fascinating question. I thought a lot about it. 17 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,480 We have a lot of great response in different people weigh in and so, 18 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:27,959 and I also think that this topic becomes like a little bit more relevant now. 19 00:01:29,159 --> 00:01:30,640 I mean, it's relevant because we're talking about it, But I'm not 20 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,400 going to get into picks with Janis versus Yokich, versus MBID, versus Luca 21 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,879 versus Tatum versus whoever else you have in there. But the news comes from 22 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:45,719 Sham Sharani of The Athletic that the NBA Players Union actually approached the league about 23 00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:49,359 maybe having implementing a game's minimum to be eligible for certain awards. We don't 24 00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:53,439 have the exact details on what awards that might entail. We don't have the 25 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,879 exact details on whether that's gonna you know, will be all MBA as well, 26 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,879 will it be all defense? Is it for every single award? Is 27 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,640 only for certain awards? But the benchmark listed was fifty eight games. Now 28 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:08,520 to comment on that quickly, I'm not opposed to it. I understand what 29 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:14,159 it does from a game's played perspective. The league cares about load management and 30 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,919 stars playing in as many games as possible, so it's more valuable. While 31 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,360 I look at it and say, well, I'm going to prefer more total 32 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,360 minutes play. If someone plays I don't know, let's just say two thousand 33 00:02:23,439 --> 00:02:30,719 minutes across sixty three games. Is does that make them substantially more valuable than 34 00:02:30,719 --> 00:02:35,400 maybe someone who played like sixteen hundred across fifty three I don't like. I 35 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,599 don't even just throwing that out there. I think total minutes is a better 36 00:02:38,599 --> 00:02:43,319 reflection of a player's value, but from a league perspective. In a player's 37 00:02:43,319 --> 00:02:46,800 perspective, if they're worried about the season getting cut or their share being cut, 38 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,879 you want to appear in as many games as possible, because that's what 39 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,000 the fans are ultimately there to say. You want to be able to purchase 40 00:02:53,039 --> 00:02:59,000 tickets in advance, and yes, is you know, is Steph or Jannis 41 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,319 or Luca or Yoki's more likely to play in every game if they need to 42 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,800 hit fifty eight as many games possible. They need to hit fifty eight to 43 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,080 be eligible for an award. That's not look Yokich is Ironman Dodges played in 44 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,319 the time of games normally. I'm just saying that's why the games played benchmark 45 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,240 is in place. It's not really about to me. It has nothing to 46 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,520 do with sort of rationalizing the awards discourse. It's more about, hey, 47 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,520 we want to figure out this load management issue, which is not a player 48 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,240 issue, to be clear, that's teams are in control of that, and 49 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,039 they're probably trying to ensure that their players as well rested as possible for the 50 00:03:30,039 --> 00:03:32,680 games that matter most. I assume there's a whole bunch of medical staff they're 51 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,199 involved in making this decision, and that they've probably looked at research or historical 52 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,400 results or vitals and they've come to this decision. It's not the players alone, 53 00:03:39,439 --> 00:03:43,639 most of whom I would argue ninety nine point nine percent of players always 54 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,080 want to play Go figure now. But so again, why do we care 55 00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:53,520 so much about the MVP award in the NBA? And I do think it's 56 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:59,080 a shit tone of factors. And I think, first and foremost mine where 57 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,120 I land is that when you look across these four major sports, I do 58 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:06,919 think that the NBA is the one where a singular player can have the most 59 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:13,120 transformative impact. And you are playing both sides of the ball, and that, 60 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,040 for one, you know, makes it easier to separate from football. 61 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,000 Two, you're also dealing with only one MVP here, whereas in baseball we're 62 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:27,759 talking about al versus n L and then also, excuse me, so like 63 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,720 having to narrow down that field even further. I think absolutely matters as well. 64 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,079 The bigger thing is, though, and it is even in baseball. 65 00:04:33,079 --> 00:04:35,639 You look at this in football, if we're gonna name QB the most valuable 66 00:04:35,639 --> 00:04:40,959 player, can they have that profound impact on the team. Where if all 67 00:04:40,959 --> 00:04:45,839 you have is this, if all you have is Aaron Rodgers, you're not 68 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,800 guaranteed to be one of the three to five best teams in the league, 69 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,759 or legitimate threat to win every game, or be it just a contender to 70 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,800 be put in that level. In the NBA, you can get there. 71 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,199 We've seen it with Lebron, We've seen it with Jannis, We've seen it 72 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:02,399 with Yo Kitchen. Yes, there are star pairings, but you're talking about 73 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,279 one playing both sides of the ball, which I know that they do in 74 00:05:05,319 --> 00:05:10,759 baseball and hockey as well. Hockey's interesting too, because it doesn't seem like 75 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,079 it says contentious of debate. I just wonder if what also contributes to that 76 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,839 is the NBA in North America is going to be more popular, and so 77 00:05:17,879 --> 00:05:21,439 there's not going to there's going to be more people invested in that interest. 78 00:05:21,519 --> 00:05:25,360 But digressing to all these variety of factors, I think the bigger one is 79 00:05:25,399 --> 00:05:29,800 though you look at all of these sports baseball where you know, pitchers they're 80 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,680 not you know, depending on the game, like they're not actually batting at 81 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,240 all, so they're not having this huge they're not having any impact on the 82 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:40,680 offense in some games, or even if you are like you're getting one at 83 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,160 bat every nine players, and so you're not having the consistent offensive impact. 84 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:47,680 You're not having an offensive impact every single inning no matter who you are. 85 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,839 And also splitting it up from the offensive defense having al versus an l MVP 86 00:05:51,959 --> 00:05:56,439 having the say Young Award winner. Even in the NFL they name the this 87 00:05:56,519 --> 00:05:59,000 is Rookie of the Year, they have the offensive and defensive player of Rookie 88 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,639 of the years. Jim doesn't separate it like that. And so like even 89 00:06:01,639 --> 00:06:06,439 the Rookie of the Year debate Kennon Fury and it rarely becomes contentious. I 90 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,639 think the last one that was like a big deal was that was it like 91 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,639 the Malcolm Brogged in versus Joel embiid one? Maybe so like, but again 92 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,839 not having that separation, it definitely contributes to it. The other thing, 93 00:06:19,879 --> 00:06:27,639 too, is that players are more recognizable in this sport. The league has 94 00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:30,800 very much built. You know, reett Bauer pointed this out in the discord, 95 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,399 that there are fans of players, not necessarily of teams. There are 96 00:06:35,399 --> 00:06:39,160 fans of teams, but there are fans of players that follow I have one 97 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,199 of my best friends in life is a Lebron James fan. He just brows 98 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,319 forward ever team Lebron James is on. There are those fans in football. 99 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,240 I'm sure. I know there are plenty of Tom Brady fans in football, 100 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:51,480 but I do think on the NBA it's at a different scale and even if 101 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,879 they meant to do it or not this way where I don't know that they 102 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,639 wanted to just create fans of players, but they definitely wanted to build up 103 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:03,560 and market around their stars, which they've done. And you can more easily 104 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,040 do that too, because they are just going to be inherently more recognizable. 105 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:12,839 Baseball wearing hats and helmets, Football you're wearing helmets. Hockey you're wearing helmets, 106 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:15,519 and so these guys aren't as front facing as they are as they would 107 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,920 be in the NBA the w NBA as well, Like you're seeing them, 108 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,680 even if it wasn't about marketing around the actual players, you're just you're seeing 109 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,480 them, and I think that develops a different type of connection, as does 110 00:07:27,519 --> 00:07:31,800 the fact that you're dealing also with a smaller roster number. So like the 111 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,439 NBA, it's I'm not including people who could be dressed, but like the 112 00:07:35,519 --> 00:07:42,279 NBA, you're going to have active roster spots that are barely more than a 113 00:07:42,279 --> 00:07:45,160 dozen, and so you're looking at fifteen. I think it's the number they 114 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,879 ever elevated to sixteen number it was fifteen. How many active roster spots in 115 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,360 the NBA believe it's fifteen. I don't know why. Yeah, fifteen, 116 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,480 I don't know why I thought it because the two way players kind of so 117 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,319 what's seven. Let's call seventeen. That's the number that's screwing me up there. 118 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,160 So you talk about seventeen in baseball, that number is going to be 119 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,800 in the twenties and football that numbers in the fifties. In hockey, I 120 00:08:05,839 --> 00:08:07,879 think it's Hockey's weird. It's like, I think you can have twenty players 121 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,600 maybe that can dress, but you can give up to like a ship ton 122 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:15,399 of contracts when you're factoring in the different levels of hockey. So just by 123 00:08:15,639 --> 00:08:18,319 virtue though, when you're talking about the active roster, even if they're not 124 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,399 suitting up every night, like the rosters are just inherently smaller, and you 125 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,839 only have five players on the court at the same time, and there aren't 126 00:08:24,839 --> 00:08:31,279 these line changes like there are in you'll forget about forget about football here where 127 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:33,120 they're splitting the side of the ball, but in basketball, like there's not 128 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:37,399 these line changes that there are in hockey. You have teams where it's like, 129 00:08:37,399 --> 00:08:39,200 Okay, these guys are gonna log a ship ton of minutes. And 130 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,919 if you know you're a fan of the Toronto Raptors, let's say, like 131 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:48,000 you know that Pascal Siakam and Fred Vanfleet are gonna log if they're healthy, 132 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,720 like thirty seven thirty eight minutes a game or whatever it is, and so 133 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:54,159 you're you're spending more time just on the court in general. So I do 134 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:00,000 think all of those factors kind of they contribute to I don't want to say 135 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,080 a deeper connection, but more of an investment in the storylines surrounding these these 136 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,679 actual players, and I don't know that you're always going to have that in 137 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,559 all of these other sports. What I also think is that the MBA has 138 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,759 also kind of designed it this way when you really think about it, they're 139 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:22,600 one to date there has been no criteria and like, look the games played 140 00:09:24,039 --> 00:09:26,399 thing, that's not really like okay, it's like it gives you a benchmark. 141 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,000 But is anyone who was playing in fewer than fifty eight games to begin 142 00:09:30,039 --> 00:09:33,879 with really going to win MVP in this full in a full on season. 143 00:09:33,759 --> 00:09:37,759 Yeah, I would argue probably not. And that's a different discussion to be 144 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:43,240 had and we'll probably get to it later. But just knowing that X, 145 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,919 you know, five players are going to be on the court for you know, 146 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,000 seventy five percent of the game or more like if you're talking about in 147 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,399 Pascal Siakam's case, like he's on the core from more than said yeah, 148 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,919 more than seventy five percent of the game every night, I'm saying he's in 149 00:09:56,919 --> 00:10:00,440 the MVP discussion. But so there's there's that element. Well, and the 150 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,919 NBA has you know, it's engendered this debate by not having the criteria in 151 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,039 general, and I don't again, I don't think, like I said, 152 00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:13,080 before the fifty eight games is going to clear that up in any way. 153 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,960 I mean, if you thought that, like, let's use an example, 154 00:10:16,039 --> 00:10:18,440 Kyrie Irving's I'm recording this is playing in fifty one games, and so if 155 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,919 he wasn't theory in the MVP discussion, I guess would be like, oh, 156 00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:24,559 he really has to like or Lucas at fifty seven, so they're going 157 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:26,799 to shut down for the rest of the regular season for some reason, or 158 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,799 Dame at fifty four. That could impact their placed the MVP voting, But 159 00:10:30,799 --> 00:10:31,840 they're going to get there. There's enough of the season where you know they're 160 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,960 going to get there. And like in the case of Lebron James, where 161 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,200 he's probably not going to get there. He's at fourty seven games played. 162 00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:41,360 That probably fucks with his all MBA chances if you set that benchmark. And 163 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:46,080 so that's what I probably wouldn't be a fan of is because I like the 164 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,120 idea value to me is different than all MBA when you're looking at MVP versus 165 00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:52,919 all MBA, I like to just I mostly like to reward. Yes, 166 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,399 availability is part of the equation, but it's a smaller part of the equation 167 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,480 for me. I want to reward a more outstanding player, and so like 168 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,720 Lebron and I think would have a chance if you're gonna play in more than 169 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:05,840 half our games or get to fifty and like you were just super outstanding this 170 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:07,799 season. I know if people are going to put them on their all NBA 171 00:11:07,879 --> 00:11:09,759 teams. I have not gone through this yet, so please nobody yet mad 172 00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:13,759 at the moment. That's not going to make me, you know, angry 173 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,279 or to sleep. Whereas if you did vote him for MVP, then it's 174 00:11:18,279 --> 00:11:20,679 just like, okay, well, part of value is availability. It's not 175 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:26,840 just a being outstanding. You're trying to encompass more. Maybe that's inconsistent thoughts 176 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,720 on my process, but that's where I land there. But the NBA has 177 00:11:30,759 --> 00:11:33,279 created this ambiguity. There is no criteria, now that there's criteria across all 178 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,279 these other leagues, but just that ambiguity coupled with everything else. And the 179 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:43,200 other thing that I don't know that we give enough consideration too, is that 180 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,399 the NBA relative to MLB, relative to NFL, I would say, relative 181 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,000 to NHL. I'm actually not too familiar with their content sharing guidelines, but 182 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:54,960 the NBA has made their content more accessible and they really pushed the social media 183 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,679 element. NFL is a beast college football. It's probably even more popular than 184 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,720 the Yeah, I would I would think anyway. I'm sorry, I'm not 185 00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:09,200 up to college football ratings, but I like, you have them constantly, 186 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:15,759 these players these highlights on social media, and you're you're distilling these highlights down, 187 00:12:15,759 --> 00:12:18,120 you're taking them and you're digesting them. You're seeing quotes from players across 188 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,320 social media. And the fact that the NBA is just so ubiquitous on social 189 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,440 media and that they drive these it's not just about playing on the court, 190 00:12:24,519 --> 00:12:30,159 but you're driving these storylines and narratives and like the way that debate shows are 191 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,240 set up, and yeah, they're gonna talk about other sports in the same 192 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:37,360 vein. But this is then connected with a league where they're very much promoting 193 00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:41,720 not not rivalries, but like you're going to see inflammatory quotes elevated or you're 194 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,080 just going to see these these highlights elevated, and they're giving out consistently and 195 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,960 publicizing, like highlighting consistently players of the week versus players of the month, 196 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:58,919 and I think that's going to again contribute to people's emotional investment in the discussions. 197 00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:01,159 So I would need to see this. I'm not plugged into enough of 198 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:07,080 other sports twitters, but when you have executives and employees really shilling for certain 199 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,360 players, like we know Daryl Mourray and going on as Joel and b campaign 200 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,600 on Twitter, or what the Rockets did with darn More wayback when for for 201 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:18,879 James Harden, I don't know if there's that level of propaganda across other other 202 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,720 sports. As someone else also pointed out our discord, like the NBA goat 203 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:26,519 debate feels like more of a thing, and so like when when you care 204 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,600 so much about the status of individual players, Yeah, you have that in 205 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:33,759 football with the QB, but do we have the same thing in baseball? 206 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,559 Like I guess that conversation happens tangentially. But is it because so many options 207 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,399 to choose from or it's harder to reach a consensus there? Is it just 208 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,600 overwhelmingly in favor when you're looking at the NHL is at just the point in 209 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:46,879 Gretzky, I don't even know the answer to, Like I'm just throwing the 210 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:52,200 name out there. So you're already invested in like these all time debates, 211 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,600 and so why wouldn't these single season awards matter a great deal to you, 212 00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:01,240 and you're also Trump's season to season, like the MVP awards specifically, drives 213 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,679 so much of that agenda, whether it's just in the go debate or player's 214 00:14:05,919 --> 00:14:09,279 place in the larger pantheon of the sport, and it's almost nothing. It's 215 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,080 replaced, Like we don't really view all Star births. I feel like we 216 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,279 still do, but we don't view them in that same vein like we used 217 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,080 too. They feel a little bit less valuable. And so if you're going 218 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,799 to detract value from another area, you're going to replace it or it's going 219 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:30,000 to be inflated elsewhere. And then what also can contribute to that is we've 220 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,759 gotten a lot more information in recent years and it's become a lot easier to 221 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:41,360 separate player performances from the overarching performance of their team and to contextualize it. 222 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,600 It's not just yes, looking at let's use last year as an example, 223 00:14:45,039 --> 00:14:48,480 or even you know, Russ's MVP Kevin Durant leaves and look at the group 224 00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:52,519 that he dragged to six in the West, or with Yokis didn't have Murray 225 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,159 Porter misses a bunch of time, look at what he was able to do 226 00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:58,000 with that Nuggets team. Yes, that was always part of it than Eric, 227 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,320 but like we can really separate right down to there's on off numbers, 228 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,799 how teams are faring with them without players, how they're faring in certain lineups, 229 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,279 how the team's individual statistics, not just the team's individual statistics are with 230 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,559 a player versus on off, but also how that that player's impact on the 231 00:15:13,559 --> 00:15:18,120 players around him with you know, as an example, players that are shooting 232 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:20,759 better with Nicole Yokich on the court, who are more efficient with Nkole Yokis 233 00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:24,960 on the court individually, not as a team, and so being able to 234 00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:30,559 look at that, to have that data just readily available, I think it 235 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,399 makes it easier to then devalue winning as part of it. And that's why 236 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,080 you know we saw someone like team winning because wins aren't a player stat That's 237 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,440 how you get an instance where Russell Westbrooklyn's MVP, Yokichwin's MVP. And I 238 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,159 don't it's not commenting on oh their team didn't win enough, they didn't deserve 239 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,120 it, but I think that there's more of an And I'm not saying this 240 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:54,879 is the right or wrong way. I do lean towards the faulting the best 241 00:15:54,879 --> 00:15:58,200 player on the best team is kind of an oversimplification of this award. But 242 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,600 when you have so much information available in the ability to separate player performances versus 243 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:08,559 their team's overall performance, it can create situations where, you know, let's 244 00:16:08,679 --> 00:16:12,399 use Damian Lillard or Shay Gether zugs Enter. One of those two guys is 245 00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:17,320 going to make First Team All MBA. One of those guys, if not 246 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,840 both, are all unlikely they're going to be on a team that's below five 247 00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:22,799 hundred this year specifically, speak might speak to the parody of the game, 248 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,600 but we're able to separate that player's impact from his team's record. And I 249 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:32,960 think because and I'm not saying that doesn't necessarily happen in other sports, but 250 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,200 because we're taking that in tandem with the fact that one player can have this 251 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,080 huge impact relative to other sports where either they're not playing both sides of the 252 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,919 ball, or they're just not spending as much time on the court, or 253 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,200 there's just there's only so much that they can do from a singular position. 254 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,120 And in football, it's like, yeah, QB can really define your entire 255 00:16:51,159 --> 00:16:53,159 offense. Can't do that for your defense. Aside from limiting the amount of 256 00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:56,960 time I guess that they have to spend on the field. And so yes, 257 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,720 QB can have a transformative impact on offense, can't that on defense? 258 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:03,000 Someone in Jannis and the NBA. And this is not for better, you 259 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,200 know it's for better or Bear's not saying the NBA superior to the NFL. 260 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,440 It's my favorite sport. The basketball is my favorite sport. That's why I 261 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,200 have covered it for as long as I have. But I'm not This is 262 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,440 not a critique of how other sports operate. It's just that someone like Jannie 263 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,279 is going to have can have a huge impact, to be the most about 264 00:17:22,279 --> 00:17:23,759 we've seen it. He was the MVP and the Defensive Player of the Year 265 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,359 at one point, and so you can't have that in the NFL. You 266 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,519 can't even have that. I guess in theory. You know, Otani could 267 00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:37,079 win Cy Young and like al MVP or like a triple Crown award. I 268 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,519 just don't. It's basketball is so different in that regard to me. And 269 00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:45,079 then, as my co host Grant had pointed out when he was delivering his 270 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,720 response to this, another thing is how much harder it is to judge value 271 00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:52,880 in basketball overall, then baseball. He said, this is a quote. 272 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,400 The latter is basically perfect. Baseball is basically perfect conditions for quantitative analysis. 273 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,599 Pitches and at bats are singular, similar and repeatable. They're static and super 274 00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:04,480 easy to compare across players. Basketball is dynamic and has a zillion more complicating 275 00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:07,960 variables, so there's just more room for debate. A baseball player's value can 276 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,680 be judged without considering teammates or situation. Not so easy for basketball. And 277 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:17,400 I think this brings up the eye test versus analytics debate a little bit here, 278 00:18:17,519 --> 00:18:21,359 whether inadvertently or not from grant Is. In the NBA, you can 279 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,240 look at numbers both catch all the granule or the shooting percentages, scoring numbers 280 00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:30,960 on off rating. But then you can also say, okay, well I 281 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:34,599 look at this player and I feel his impact. It's like Draymond Green's defense. 282 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:40,680 Anyone who watches Draymond Green on a regular basis knows what his value is 283 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,400 the Warriors. But if you just look at his stat line and you're not 284 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:48,519 watching him consistently or on a nightly basis, or just a bunch of his 285 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:52,519 games every single year, you're gonna ceo, you know, six points seven 286 00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:56,319 assists or something like what is what is that actually doing? And there's more 287 00:18:56,319 --> 00:19:02,279 context needed in basketball at least then hair to baseball, and maybe you can 288 00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:03,599 even you know, you look at baseball and it's just like, yeah, 289 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,839 okay, this guy has his swing. The aesthetics look really good, but 290 00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:11,359 his batting average or is on base percentage or slugging percentage is just in the 291 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,240 toilet. His team isn't necessarily impacting that. I guess you could say, 292 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:19,640 well, who's he batting behind or in front of? How does that change 293 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,200 the type of pitches he sees? What's situationally? How many times is he 294 00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:26,599 up where there's no runners in scoring position? Does that change the way that 295 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,079 he's approaching is at battall? Yeah, those are definitely going to factor into 296 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:34,319 some decision making, But it's it's more binary than it is for basketball. 297 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,759 Again, not saying basketball is just superior. There from that and so there's 298 00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:45,039 just so much room for interpretation in the NBA then there is for other sport 299 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,759 then there isn't. Let's use baseball specifically with a player's value, and you're 300 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:52,039 combining that with the fact they are going to have. Yes, baseball, 301 00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:56,519 you can have an impact on both on both sides of the field, but 302 00:19:56,599 --> 00:20:00,960 like the field is just so big and it's had a stand still that you 303 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:07,000 can't control in any way how your teammates are defending because you're playing first base. 304 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,000 And yes, you can really snag arrant throws and still get outs or 305 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:18,240 you know, save errors from happening, But like you can't elevate the play 306 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:22,960 of those around you as much as you can in basketball or even I would 307 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,640 say hockey, just like they those around you can't necessarily devalue your play as 308 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,799 much just they can. But it just feels like in MLB it's happening on 309 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:33,319 a smaller scale. In the NFL, it's happening in more of a vacuum 310 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,599 because of how the sides of the ball are separated. And I don't know, 311 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,640 you know, and I go back to the roster spot thing too, 312 00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:48,480 is I just wonder if there would be more investment in to the NFL even 313 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:51,200 let's just say, like yes, the NFL MVP, Like, would there 314 00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:55,599 be more investment in the NFL MVP award if there were a fewer roster spots 315 00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:57,640 or if it didn't really almost default too. It feels like a position at 316 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,480 this point when it's when it's QB in the NBA, it hasn't necessarily defaulted 317 00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:07,960 to that singular position. I think one of the final things I considered is 318 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,839 that the NBA regular season just might be this could be evidence that it's just 319 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:19,599 so long that we need other conversations to occupy us properly. MLB would probably 320 00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:25,000 have the same issue, but they have so many roster spots. Again, 321 00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:27,000 it's going to just not dilute the MVP field, But I think it changes 322 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,799 the context of the conversation, as does splitting it up by league inside of 323 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:36,599 the ball. But like they also have fewer playoff spots, and so like 324 00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:41,599 every game not I guess it do. I say it matters more than every 325 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,039 single regular season game in the NBA, just because if we're looking at it 326 00:21:44,039 --> 00:21:47,119 through the lens of the play in tournament. Yes, you have twenty teams 327 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,000 of the thirty in the league, they are going to make the playoffs, 328 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,400 so you have more of them in theory have more to compete for. But 329 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,440 when you're actually looking at getting into the postseason, being in the meat and 330 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,559 potatoes of the playoffs, the MLB is going to have fewer playoff spots and 331 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,640 you're still gonna have teams that are in tight contest with one another, and 332 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,279 how the series change change that just you're seeing teams play each other more often. 333 00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:12,480 So maybe there's more investment there. But I think that when you're talking 334 00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:17,640 about in MLB as well, when you're talking about the field of contenders in 335 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,400 the NBA, even with that twenty playoff field, it's almost thinner than it 336 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,880 would be in an MLB. In the NFL, where there's a scarcity of 337 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,039 product, to be sure, but in the NHL, where it feels like 338 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,240 there's going to be more upsets because of just the way that games are decided 339 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,759 by such these thin margins. Where yes, in the NFL it's just the 340 00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:41,079 one off thing. The superior team can have a bad game and then you've 341 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,359 just you're out of the playoffs. Then in the NHL and MLB, yes, 342 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,039 you're dealing with best of seven series, and I would I don't again, 343 00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:52,079 I don't know the statistics behind us, but I would argue like, 344 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,119 yes, the superior team or the better team coming in is probably going to 345 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,400 win most of the time. That being said, games are decided by these 346 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,400 one point goals, these one run scores, and yes an MLB you can 347 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,519 have you can hit a grand Slam and there's four runs right there, but 348 00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:08,640 the margins of victory are so much thinner that it's going to open the door 349 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,240 from more upsets. And so you can have a regular season that's just as 350 00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:17,680 law like in hockey, or a regular season that's longer like in baseball, 351 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,000 and it might not feel as meaningless as it's been to valued in basketball. 352 00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:26,440 And it's also hockey super physical. So I don't want to say this, 353 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,720 but maybe with the line changes and if you're going to have your ice time 354 00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:33,559 is fewer than forty minutes every single night, is allow you to play in 355 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:37,480 more games in baseball though, like is it? It definitely seems less physically 356 00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:40,960 demanding, just because there's a lot of time that you're spending it a stand 357 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,240 still, so you're going to be able to play in more games. This 358 00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:47,440 is easier to separate value for players when you've already broken down the award into 359 00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:52,400 two separateiers in that regard, And so I do think there are all those 360 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,640 overarching factors that come down to where a lot of it, to me really 361 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,640 is the nature of the sport, the nature of the schedule. But I 362 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:06,400 also do for only believe that the MBA has created this by, if not 363 00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:11,359 designed, by just the nature of how they try to promote the sport and 364 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:17,920 their players. And that's ultimately fine. I just I have a real problem 365 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,359 with the MVP discourse when it turns into a pissing contest or shitting over one 366 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,599 candidate to prop up the next. And I'm not I actually can't recall. 367 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,200 I don't think I ever did this. Maybe I probably that's just I did 368 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,960 this when you're younger, and like you're using, you know to and if 369 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,279 you're a fan, of course using you know, you're gonna use numbers or 370 00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:41,960 anecdotal evidence to prop up your candidate versus someone else. And there's that intrinsic 371 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,799 desire to compare and contrast, which I get and there's a place for it, 372 00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:51,200 but it feels like there are so many people that live and die on 373 00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:53,359 singular arguments, or at least they are unwilling to admit that, hey, 374 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,599 this is complicated. And so this year's MVP debate specifically, and even last 375 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,559 year's MVPDDA, I think Yoki should have won. Yes, this year Yoki 376 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,960 could win, probably will win. That doesn't mean that he's the only Ryan. 377 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,640 Answer to me, A lot of people playing this as it's him and 378 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,279 that's it at this point. First of all, there's like fifteen games left 379 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,279 to play and Joel and Weid has been absolutely dominant. The Bucks are really 380 00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:17,759 coming along under the way that Jannis has played. He goes through a little 381 00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:19,079 bit of a slump. There's ebbs and flows to a season, and I 382 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,920 do think we all need to keep more of an open mind. We also 383 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,599 absolutely need to be prepared to have the conversation about implicit racial bias. I 384 00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:32,279 do I agree the way that Kendrick Perkins went about it by you know, 385 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,559 using points per game as the crux of his argument. No, I think 386 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:37,480 you could talk there's an inherent scoring bias. You look at the six Man 387 00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:42,559 of the Year award winner, there's an inherent bias already to the offensive production 388 00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:48,440 in general. But we're talking about a sport that is dominated but that is 389 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,359 like we're talking about a sport that has a ton of black talent, Like 390 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:59,279 it's a sport that is dominated by black players. And you when you have 391 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,400 again ESPN came out retracted, there is more of a diverse voting pool media 392 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:08,799 pool than Perkins initially intimated app but you do as at let's use myself, 393 00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:11,599 it's just a white media member. You have to at least ask yourself, 394 00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:15,759 like, could I be at least acknowledged that there is implicit racial bias at 395 00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:18,880 play, just in general, not even saying that you necessarily ascribe to it. 396 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,400 You don't automatically have to get defensive, and you could go yeah, 397 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,079 and maybe you should just keep that in mind or at least acknowledging as much 398 00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:30,279 as you're going about making your picks. I don't think there's anything wrong with 399 00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:33,759 that. We have to be prepared to have the discussion when it's a league 400 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,039 like this, and I think it makes some people uncomfortable. It makes me 401 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,079 uncomfortable to talk about. I do like listening to it, though, and 402 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,839 I want to keep an open mind as I go through these different types of 403 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,240 things. I don't know that that's necessarily why the MVP Award and the NBA 404 00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:52,680 feels like it matters so much more. But that's just another element to the 405 00:26:55,319 --> 00:27:00,440 levels of investment in this debate, especially it seems like this season. But 406 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,759 I don't like when it's just boiled down to something that's so binary. As 407 00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:07,079 I mentioned before, this isn't ones and twos, This isn't it has to 408 00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:11,480 be so and so, and there's no alternative choice. In a lot of 409 00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:15,759 years, I'm sure that it could have went to one, two, or 410 00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:18,960 three people, And my personal opinion, there's probably there's three, perhaps four 411 00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:23,079 that I would accept as Okay. I see the argument for them, and 412 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,000 if you're gonna make it, make the argument for them, I'm not necessarily 413 00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:29,319 going to agree. But I don't think I would call you egregious. If 414 00:27:29,559 --> 00:27:32,720 I wouldn't call you, vote for your honest yanness might be my first pick 415 00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:34,279 at this point when all said, and don't just seeing how the season kind 416 00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:40,920 of closes this year, so I hope that the MVP debate can at least 417 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,720 get a little bit more productive. And I do think everyone's probably guilty of 418 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,759 adding to the toxicity in some level. There's some that definitely seem worse than 419 00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:55,359 others. But just between the propagandizing coming from teams and executives and even just 420 00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,039 fans and trainers, where it's not just about propping up their god, it's 421 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:07,119 creating a scenario where they're either denigrating someone else using anecdotal events that doesn't even 422 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,759 make any sense. And one of the big things is like Yokis needs to 423 00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:12,480 do it in the playoffs is his and I'm not necessarily coming to his defense 424 00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:15,319 here. The last time the Nuggets were fully healthy, he went to the 425 00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:19,160 Western Conference finals. Zach Good also bunches this on his podcast, And I've 426 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,599 been driving home the point that Yokich's individual numbers and the playoffs are really good. 427 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,440 But you look at in beads and yokis playoff numbers, Yoki's playoff numbers 428 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,519 individually, you're just gonna look better than it beats. Yes, you can 429 00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:37,039 factor defense into the equation, but like we act like there's some huge separation 430 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,279 between one candidate or the other, when oftentimes there's not. Yeah, there 431 00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:45,599 can be years where it's just you know, Steph Curry had the unanimous MVP 432 00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,839 in twenty sixteen. There are absolutely years where it's like that. But more 433 00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:52,599 and more, as we have more information, as the league gets deeper, 434 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,200 as we're not necessarily i don't want to say waiting team success, but at 435 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,279 least being able to incorporate different elements of information. That's available to us. 436 00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:03,559 These races are going to get more complicated, and so one way, I 437 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,519 kind of embrace the complexity, but I really hate seeing, watching and listening 438 00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:15,960 to people try to boil it down to this just either or proposition when it's 439 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,599 not always that simple. Whereas player X like is worse than player why like, 440 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,599 that's how it's not this is why player wise my pick. It's player 441 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,359 X is better than player why, and that's why player why shouldn't win. 442 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,680 It's how it almost feels a lot of the time, and that could be. 443 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,160 This is going to be debate shows are going to have these conversations about 444 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,279 I'm not going to confess to watch, you know, these hockey debates or 445 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,000 I've definitely seen NFL goat debates or MVP debates, but MLB MVP debates. 446 00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:45,079 Yeah, the debate shows are going to are going to have, you know, 447 00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:48,920 those types of conversations regardless. The nature of those conversations going to be 448 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,119 the same, regardless. But in the MBA in particular particular, excuse me, 449 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,720 is I have a hiccup there? Since I mentioned before that so many, 450 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,880 so much of its model is rooted in its reach on social media and 451 00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:07,559 attracting attention and fandom and evoking interest in a span of clips. It feels 452 00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,519 like that analysis if we see something from ESPN or Fox Sports or just someone 453 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,720 talking on a podcast where you see it all the time with people clipping Bill 454 00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:21,039 Simmons, uh, you know, like the recordings on their phone. They're 455 00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:23,599 putting these snippets up, and it feels like it spreads more because that's like 456 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:29,000 how basketball fandom is kind of the it's not the genesis of it, but 457 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:33,160 it's part of its fabric, and so you're going to information is disseminated more 458 00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:37,640 in that way, and then it spreads more quickly in that way. This 459 00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,960 this is just my opinion based off no studies whatsoever, and I don't know. 460 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,680 It's because of the nature of the way that the league has promoted itself 461 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,759 on social media and the way that these debates are this is all part of 462 00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:52,599 It's like stacking one on top of the other. We've got a Russian nesting 463 00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:53,720 dollar situation. Maybe I don't know if that's the right way to frame it, 464 00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:57,160 or a domino effect or build up effect, whatever, But because stuff 465 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:03,240 spreads on social media like that, because it's like because engagement has generated that 466 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:06,160 way, you have more of an incentive to talk about this in the first 467 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,160 place. But it also creates this cycle of well, are we hate listening 468 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,200 or hate watching? And it's like, yeah, I dunk on things that 469 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:18,160 I disagree with on Twitter all the time, and they're from shows that I 470 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,680 won't even regularly watch this because they don't play stock in them and I don't 471 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,400 know that I ever did, but certainly not now. But yet it's out 472 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,640 there on social media and it's going to spread and liked. My tone is 473 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,799 very tongue in cheek where I'm not going to take it too seriously, but 474 00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:33,599 there are people that take it really seriously, and that's again I'm not even 475 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,279 criticizing that, but I think the investment there into the social media, to 476 00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:42,720 the very clippy nature of the way this league is covered, that's going to 477 00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:45,839 contribute to this debate. And so if maybe you disagree and you think that 478 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,440 the MVP maybe I'm too in my MBA basketball bubble about this, so feel 479 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:52,400 free to get I mean there, but that's the only thing I wanted to 480 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,960 tackle, and I thought it was topical given the fact that the league changing 481 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,359 that fifty eight were considering the players lead. Talking about that fifty eight game 482 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,759 minimum for awards, I wonder if that will have a material impact on the 483 00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:08,519 way that the awards are actually picked. And the only thing that I could 484 00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:14,960 see it changing is I guess it could increase a player's desire to be available 485 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,480 for an amount of time. But I'm wondering would it actually make voters more 486 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,039 open to voting for someone who has only appeared in fifty eight or fifty nine 487 00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:27,319 games because that number is there, whereas right now I don't think and there's 488 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,839 just like, look, there's not a candidate that's really good follower of this 489 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,759 umbrella. So any example I say here is going to kind of suck. 490 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,839 But let's just as an example, Luca don Chich plays in two more games 491 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,480 the rest of the year, and the MAVs win both of them, they 492 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,519 climb up the Western Conference standings, whatever, he'll be at fifty nine games 493 00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:49,559 played. Are you going to you? I don't think he would vote for 494 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,400 him this season if you're talking about your other options, which would have been 495 00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:59,759 primarily if you're looking at a as a good example here, like how many 496 00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:02,160 games is they're not even on the minutes thing? So in beat he's already 497 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,440 he's actually been a fewer games in Luke at this point. But if if 498 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:12,319 Embad had played sixty three sixty five versus Luca's fifty nine, if you know 499 00:33:12,359 --> 00:33:16,279 Yokich is gonna play in this is probably it could definitely in misregard, Yokich 500 00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:21,720 is in sixty games played right now, if he finishes with seventy versus Luca 501 00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:25,359 at fifty nine, I don't think that Luca would beat Yokich if that was 502 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,480 just the two, if those were the two candidates, it's not. That's 503 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:34,160 not how I's breaking down. Does this invite more of that though? Or 504 00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:37,759 more consideration for a Luca in this case where it would be okay, like 505 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,200 he reached the minimum, why are you even signing it anymore? You could 506 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,160 cite that Yokis played all these more minutes, but Luca hit the fifty eight 507 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,039 game minimum. Why shouldn't he be considered? And so maybe it could change 508 00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:52,599 the way awards are voted for in that regard, I can't really picture it 509 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,039 having this material impact, and turn if it doesn't, is it going to 510 00:33:55,079 --> 00:34:00,079 have this meaningful dent on player availability? Fourteen teams? Because teams will not 511 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:07,200 fuck with the things that they won't do. At least if John Morant was 512 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,920 going to make an All NBA team and he was available for the Grizzlies right 513 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,880 now, which he's not. He's checked into a counseling facility. I don't 514 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,159 know why we need to know the location. I hope he's fine and gets 515 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:20,320 all the help he needs and comes back, and I wish nothing but the 516 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,760 best for him. But the getting the location of it was weird by the 517 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,239 way the side tension there. But just as John Morant, if he makes 518 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,840 All NBA this year, like his contract gets elevated, the supermax teams aren't 519 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,800 good a bench players in general. If they have that much money on one, 520 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:37,280 that would be just catastrophic for player team relationships. Where it be like 521 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,119 if if this was last year and Shay was going to make an All NBA 522 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:43,239 team so that the All NBA contract bump would have come into play, the 523 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,440 sound aren't even doing that. Now they're talking about monitoring his ave injury, 524 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,039 but they wouldn't even do that. Now he's on track to make an All 525 00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:51,480 NBA team this season, They're not going to do anything to jeopardize that. 526 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,559 So if if teams are already thinking that way. What does the fifty eight 527 00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:00,079 game minimum really does make it more likely then that they're if it was Lebron 528 00:35:00,159 --> 00:35:02,079 and he had to come back, the layers is going to rush him now 529 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,920 unless there's contract incentives at play, I don't really know how much of a 530 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,039 different difference that makes from a player and team thinking perspective of available, like, 531 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,199 oh, I need to get out there and play, not that players 532 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,119 don't want to play again, but unless again, unless we get to a 533 00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:20,199 point where it's, oh, they hit that fifty eight game in him, 534 00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:22,159 I'm so I'm going to vote for them, and we actually have a fifty 535 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,440 nine game over in eighty two game season, he won the MVP Award, 536 00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:29,840 and so now my incentive is, yeah, like he was probably gonna play 537 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,679 fifty one, but he's gonna really get to that fifty eight game mark, 538 00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:35,760 and so I'll be interesting if there's any material change there. I still think 539 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,440 we should value total minutes played more than anything. And I also don't know 540 00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:43,000 that the total playing time needs to matter as much in the all MBA when 541 00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:45,119 you miss as many games as the Zion Williamson has this season, for example, 542 00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:49,760 Okay, like, yes, he shouldn't be eligible for all NBA and 543 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,480 he's not going to make All MBA. But you know, Lebron, if 544 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:55,760 he gets to fifty appearances and like, his minutes are still up there where. 545 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,559 I don't even know why he's played as many minutes as he has this 546 00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:02,360 season, but you're you're talking about him averaging over thirty six minutes per game 547 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,239 at the at his age thirty eight season, and even as of now, 548 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,440 if the season ended today like he's gonna be at seventeen hundred minutes. It's 549 00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:12,920 not an insubstantial sample side, So that's right ly in on that though, 550 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,639 why I think the MVP discussion matters more and is more toxic and evokes more 551 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,280 emotion and response. It seems anecdotally at least in the NBA than it does 552 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,079 compare to other sports. If you follow me this rant this long, please 553 00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:29,760 remember to subscribe if you haven't already, tell people about us, word of 554 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,039 mouth, re tweeters, shout us out on Twitter, any thoughts at all, 555 00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:36,199 hit us in the discord. The link to that is in the podcast 556 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,639 and a YouTube description, and you can follow us on the socials at Hardwood 557 00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:44,000 Knox on Twitter and TikTok at Hardward, Underscore Knox on Instagram. I will 558 00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:49,639 note I do put up unique content across all of TikTok and Instagram, so 559 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,320 go ahead and follow us accounts, YouTube, Spotify, Apple, the whole 560 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,440 nine. Appreciate every single one of you as always and until next time, 561 00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:59,119 I think you've got a two one, the only, the indelible, the 562 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,039 real different be O Frank gild