WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:05.679 How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy? Become 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:09.839 a patron For just five dollars a month, you get access to a private 3 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:14.439 RSS feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month will 4 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:19.039 get you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign up now at 5 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.800 Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey, Carl and Richard here with your 6 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:28.800 twenty twenty four NDC schedule. Will be at as many NDC conferences as possible 7 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:32.679 this year, and you should consider attending no matter what. The Copenhagen Developers 8 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:37.359 Festival happens August twenty sixth through the thirtieth. Early bird discount ends April twenty 9 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:44.840 sixth. Tickets at Cphdevfest dot com. Ndcporto is happening October fourteenth through the 10 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:51.840 eighteenth. The early bird discount ends June fourteenth. Tickets at Ndcporto dot com. 11 00:00:51.880 --> 00:01:07.920 And we'll see you there, we hope. Hey, welcome back to 12 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.799 dot net rocks. I'm Carl Franklin and I'm Richard Campbell. We are past 13 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:17.640 the nineteen hundred mark here post build yeah yeah, we're also this is like 14 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:21.560 the one studio show. We're doing in between a whole bunch of in person 15 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:26.040 shows, right right, So it's gonna be fun. Yeah, we're going 16 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:33.719 to be at NDC Oslo very soon. And yeah, really good feedback from 17 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.519 show nineteen hundred was Scott hansomen people really love that we had some fun there, 18 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.640 you know. And that was your idea too, to yeah, a 19 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:46.120 surprise him with the with the quiz the clips and he got one hundred percent. 20 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:49.840 It's ridiculous, right, I know that's sky. All right, let's 21 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:59.680 roll the crazy music. All right, man? What you got? Well 22 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:01.840 for bed, I know a framework today I don't have anything about the framework, 23 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:07.519 but okay, but on my other show Security this week, we found 24 00:02:07.039 --> 00:02:15.280 a hack of vulnerability in a TP link gaming router nice that exposes users to 25 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:19.879 remote code attacks. If you look at this thing, I'm thinking. The 26 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:23.759 first thing I thought was, what's the difference between a gaming router and a 27 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:29.000 line of business router? And the gaming router has more blinky lights and it 28 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:32.319 costs more, yeah, and cool colors and things too. But yeah, 29 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:38.039 it also prioritizes with QoS, It prioritizes the game packets, and they tend 30 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:42.080 to use as many channels as they can you pay a premium for these things? 31 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:45.560 Yeah, exactly. But it also kind of looks like it could take 32 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.199 off, you know, like it's a like a drone of some kind. 33 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.400 Yeah, the idea that your router is a statement piece for your coffee table. 34 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:57.960 I don't know. It's like nine prongs sticking up out of it with 35 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.080 red stripes on it. Yeah, they're in tennis. Yeah yeah, all 36 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:07.120 right. So people who know security cvees, which are you know, threats 37 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:15.879 or reports of problems, know that there's a CVSS score with them from one 38 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:19.759 to ten, right, and ten is oh my god, this is horrible. 39 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:23.840 It's the worst possible thing, right, but it only that score is 40 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:29.840 only if you have been attacked. How bad it is opposed to this router? 41 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:32.919 I presume, well, yeah, if somebody has attacked the router and 42 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.560 hacked it, right, it's bad, like remote code execution is bad. 43 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:45.919 But we at security this week have started coming up with how likely are we 44 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:52.360 to be exposed to this number? So it's called like a contagion factor or 45 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:55.319 something like that, which is not part of this number. So we went 46 00:03:55.400 --> 00:04:01.159 through the problems and first of all, you have to be rebooting. It 47 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:04.599 has to have just booted up. So if your power goes off, your 48 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:08.360 power comes back on, or you turn it off and turn it back on 49 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:14.719 right in that boot up sequence, that's where you're vulnerable. And then certain 50 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:18.759 ports have to be open right right, and then you're vulnerable to this attack. 51 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:24.199 And my question was, well, does the attack have to happen from 52 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:30.079 inside the firewall or also outside? And the answer is outside. It's exposed 53 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:34.680 to the Internet, which makes you vulnerable in those seconds when it's booting up. 54 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:40.279 And if somebody knows about that and sees it and connects to it and 55 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:46.000 sends you the special blow up commands, they will get remote code access. 56 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.439 Right, It's pretty scary. Yeah, it just means that. And you've 57 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:54.199 got to know there's some script kiddies running this, running that call continuously, 58 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.639 just walking back and forth. It's IP addresses, right, Yeah, that's 59 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.600 right. So anyway, this is a kind of a big deal, and 60 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.240 I wanted to share it with people. So, yeah, you know what, 61 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:09.720 patch your routers, patch everything regularly, patch all the things on run 62 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:12.800 as a little while back into a show with Sammy Laho is one of these 63 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:15.079 one of the security folks. It's scarce it's not out of me on a 64 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:19.800 regular basis. And and he talked about the fact that with multi factor authentication 65 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:26.399 and you know, current security password technology, phishing is stopped being the primary 66 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:30.920 exploit PLATH. Unpatched gear is now the primary exploit PLATH. So we had 67 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:36.040 a whole conversation about you know, most IT folks want to test before they 68 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:40.600 up they update, and so often it takes a week or two before you 69 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.519 get updates onto your machines. It's like, that's now a higher risk than 70 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:48.000 the risk of an outage by applying the patch immediately and then figuring out if 71 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:51.720 it's a problem. Yeah, and I know that we're going to be talking 72 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:58.319 to Veronica about AI. But AI is now in the game of hacking, 73 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:02.079 you know, searching for vulnerable as soon as they're reported and immediately going out 74 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:08.120 and trying to exploit them, generate and exploit, so generated exploit. It 75 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:13.439 speaks to how we've got to release this information more carefully too, Yes, 76 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:15.199 like more time to patch. But yeah, it's an interesting time, isn't 77 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:17.800 It's an interesting time. It's you know, it's cat and mouse. But 78 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:21.160 the sooner you patch, the safe you are. Well, it's also we've 79 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:26.959 got there are professionals now, like these folks are not hacking for fun. 80 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.680 They've hacked for money, and then so make sure they don't make any money, 81 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:34.279 right, all right, who's talking to us today? Richard grabbed a 82 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:38.959 comment off of show eighteen seventy four, which we do backup November twenty three 83 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:44.560 with our friend vishwas talking about his applications of large language models. Vishwats is 84 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:46.160 always good for that sort of thing, right, Yeah, when you know 85 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.759 you think about We recorded that show early November twenty three, so he already 86 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:54.560 had code out in the field. And that's what I love about vishwas it's 87 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:59.160 like he calls me when he has something real to show. He's not speculating. 88 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:00.279 It's like, let me talking about this project we have out in the 89 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:08.199 field. And this was an app that he that he was working with where 90 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:13.360 the large language model was understanding texts coming in from various sources. It was 91 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:18.079 almost a kind of send him an analyzer, but more sophisticated by far. 92 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:23.680 And we've got a hilarious comment here that I had to read from a zirene. 93 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.800 I could presume it's an acronym or a pseudonym. Just a few months 94 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:31.199 ago. And actually it's just quoting me. All he says is you don't 95 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:38.560 ask a stochastic parrot for facts. That's not what it's for. Yeah, 96 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:42.600 that's pretty good stochastic parent. Pretty easy for me to agree with myself. 97 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:46.120 So siron, thank you so much for your comment, and a copy of 98 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.680 music code By is on its way to un If you'd like a copy of 99 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:51.639 music code By, I read a comment on the website at dot rocks dot 100 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:55.160 com or on the facebooks. We publish every show there, and if you 101 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:57.079 comment there and I read on the show, we'll send you a copy of 102 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.360 music code By. And also you can follow us on Twitter. We've been 103 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.399 on their ore ex Twitter as I'm calling you now, and we've been there 104 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.560 forever. But the cool kids are hanging out on masthadon. I'm at Carl 105 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:11.399 Franklin at tech hub dot social, and I'm Rich Campbell at Macedon dot social. 106 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:15.279 Yeah, send us a two. Those are other ways that you could 107 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:20.120 get yourself a free copy of music to code buy. All right, well, 108 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:24.920 let's bring on our esteemed guest software engineer by day, an AI enthusiasts 109 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:33.000 by night, Veronica Kolesnikova has extensive experience in full stack development using c sharp, 110 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:39.360 dot Net, Java and Typescript, Azure and AWS clouds. Public speaker, 111 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:45.360 hackathon volunteer, co organizer of Boston Azure user group, and mentor. 112 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:52.279 She's curious about mobile and augmented reality Veronical's a master's degree in information technology. 113 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.000 She also likes dancing, traveling, and practicing arial yoga in her free time. 114 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:03.840 Arial yoga suspended from a helicopter, right, of course. If I 115 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.960 had not heard of aerial yoga for forever and like in the past two months, 116 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:11.360 I've thought, you're like the third person, like what's going on? 117 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:15.480 Like if it's as if yoga wasn't hard enough. Now you're hanging in the 118 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:20.559 air while you do it, and it's it hot or cold aeriel defense. 119 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:24.759 Yeah, if I practices in Florida, then yeah, it's still hot, 120 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:31.399 but here in Massachusetts it's sometimes cold. Yeah, it's just starting to get 121 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.159 hot now. Yeah, So what's on your mind in the world of AI? 122 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:41.080 Forroonica, everything is changing so fast every day I feel like I'm behind, 123 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:48.080 although I'm reading the news and trying to connect to people online, but 124 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:54.120 still I feel like I'm always behind. There is something new happening all the 125 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.440 time. Yep, I feel the same way. It's not a bad thing, 126 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:03.879 you know, like really we don't get sprints like this all that often, 127 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.600 right with a new technology. I was explaining you to some high school 128 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:13.879 students last week or earlier this week even I said, Look, the scientists 129 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.600 come up with a new material, and then the engineers take the new material 130 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.279 and they try stuff with it. What you're seeing right now is the science 131 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.720 has been done. General of AI is where it's going to be, and 132 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:26.879 the engineers you're running with it now, and we're just going to make some 133 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.639 stuff and some of that stuff will be bad and some of it will be 134 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:41.399 pretty useful. Yeah. A lot happened actually recently with Jenny AI and large 135 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:46.039 language models, and now I feel like there is another trend coming with small 136 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:50.480 language models. Yeah, how do you define the difference between its large language 137 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:56.840 and all a small language model? The science? Can you put numbers around 138 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:01.000 that? Is that like a number of parameters? Is it actually like the 139 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.200 physical data size? Yeah? The data size is the major factor. There. 140 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:13.799 Lots of those small language models you can actually put to a mobile device. 141 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.639 So if you're created a mobile application it can run on the device, 142 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.519 which is really cool. That seems to be the goal. Is I want 143 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:26.919 to run this on a phone? That's debatable. Yeah, want is the 144 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:28.600 struggle word, Like, I don't know that I want to run this on 145 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.240 the phone, But it seems to be what they're offering us. Isn't the 146 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:35.919 context of a small language model usually smaller and more focused on a particular area. 147 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.240 Is that the story? Like, you wouldn't ask a small language model 148 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.159 the current price of a foot long tuna subway, it would be right, 149 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:50.360 Yes, yes, exactly. So large language models they were trained on more 150 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:58.480 data. That's why they're large, and they're more they know more about stuff, 151 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:03.399 and then small language model us they're more focused on specific areas. Yeah. 152 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.679 Well, I don't think i'd ask any of them what the price of 153 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.600 a sub sandwhich was because that's a fact that they're not good at facts. 154 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.679 Yeah, they're not, are they? Yeah, you have to use RAG 155 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:18.320 for that. Yeah, I'm sorry. We've got to be accurate in police 156 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.879 RAG is which we will augmented generation. There you go. It's such an 157 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:30.480 as. Yeah, the terms we have to live with now or did you 158 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:35.519 did you see any of the keynotes or the sessions from build about Microsoft announcements 159 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:41.639 around their AI stuff. Yeah, I was following online. Unfortunately I couldn't 160 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:46.919 make it to Seattle this time around, but they released a lot of stuff. 161 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:54.759 I'm glad that they're focusing not only on being up to date and up 162 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.679 to speed, they're partnering a lot with open Ai, and I think it 163 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:07.720 took them basically a week to include GPT four oh into their offerings as well 164 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:15.480 for as open ai. But also they're focusing on responsible AI, which is 165 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:18.399 very important. That impressed me. I mean, I don't know how responsible 166 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:24.559 or secure it is, but the fact that they have this security layer between 167 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:31.759 you and the models and the outputs and inputs makes me feel asleep a little 168 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:35.039 bit better at night. Yeah. Yeah, And I think there was a 169 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:39.360 really issue way that they presented it with the AI studio, where you know, 170 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:41.799 one hand, it was like we're here to protect you, but it's 171 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:46.240 also there's also a sense of we're here to also protect people from you too. 172 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:50.759 Write like I don't know how a bad actor could use Microsoft's AI tools 173 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.480 and not have the tool essentially stop them saying this is not an appropriate use, 174 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:01.120 and that that to me, you know, relieve me, because we've 175 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.519 been you know, we talk about open AI and this whole idea of an 176 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:05.360 open model. It's like, do we really want these tools out in the 177 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.559 while where anybody can do anything with them? Yeah, same as open source 178 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:18.320 projects. So everybody here is probably old enough to remember the heyday of SQL 179 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.720 injection attacks, which, by the way, are still the number one vulnerability 180 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:30.000 in software. SQL injection attacks number one. So if you think about what 181 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.919 a SQL injection attack is, you know, you have a field on a 182 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.720 web form that you're filling in, and because you're smart and you know what 183 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:43.799 the database is, you can embed SQL commands right in that data. And 184 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:52.759 assuming that the back end code just concatenates all those inputs together without sanitizing them 185 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:58.080 or without checking them, and sends it as a query to the database, 186 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:03.480 therein lies the problem. Right. So think about in the context of AI. 187 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:09.480 You know, the even the APIs like the open AI APIs take a 188 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:15.840 sentence, it's text, right, So now we have prompt injection attacks. 189 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:22.320 It's like a whole new level of threat. So they have to be a 190 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:31.039 very diligent about sanitizing and discovering ways that people are trying to either hack into 191 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:37.799 the system remote code execution or or you know, injecting and getting into the 192 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.879 data model or something like that, or just asking stupid questions or dangerous questions. 193 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.879 So it's really good that they have this this filter. Yes, people 194 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:56.159 come in with creative ways to break the system, and now Microsoft is that 195 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:03.519 in the jail jail breake detection, which is very good. But you know, 196 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:11.360 it's always cat and mouse. Who is more creative, people who created 197 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:18.440 those jail breaks or people who are trying to catch them. Yeah, and 198 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.919 yeah, I tend to bat on the white hats just because there's a lot 199 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.399 of them. When they're pretty skilled and they don't have to hide. They 200 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.159 get to share each other's information and collaborate with each other, where the bad 201 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.879 guys have to stay in the shadows. All right, Well enough doom and 202 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:37.120 gloom. Let's talk about some positive things in the changes in open AI, 203 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.559 maybe in particular or AI in general. What do you see out there? 204 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:47.519 Yeah, so they just released that new model GPT four oh, which looks 205 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:56.440 like it can do everything. It can analyze visual content, speech and text 206 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:03.519 all from one place based. I remember the days when we had to use 207 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:08.559 different APIs in order to process all kinds of information. But now it's not 208 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:15.599 the case, which is very convenient. Those days were like a few months 209 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.559 ago. And this is what they mean when they say multimodal, right, 210 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.039 that it doesn't matter whether it's text or images or it can pandle it. 211 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:29.559 Yes, okay, how are you? I mean four oh seems niche also 212 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:32.720 in the sense that it's kind of a client. I don't know how it 213 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:37.279 embeds in my apps. Yeah, you can create all kinds of applications with 214 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:44.079 it, all kinds of assistance or I don't know, support tool. I 215 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:52.000 know some people they are struggling with creation of graphs or maybe processing information from 216 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:59.480 graphs, and by just connecting GPT four oh to application like that, it's 217 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.559 easy for people to maybe read the graphs, maybe create new ones based on 218 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:10.400 the data that they have. That's the use case that I was thinking about 219 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.759 right away, because I remember some of flower and we are talking about like 220 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:18.039 the Excel style graphs like graphs and overload a term these days too. Yeah, 221 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:22.440 yes, interesting, So take up high chart. By the way, 222 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:27.039 never use a pie chart. You send it to four oh and ask it 223 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.440 to analyze that, Like, what do you get from this, what would 224 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.519 be a better way to represent this data? Because that's a great problem. 225 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.839 Yeah, I'm sure you can do that. And I know that some of 226 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.160 our project managers they have to create all kinds of graphs pretty much every day, 227 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:48.400 and they have to process a lot of data. But now they have 228 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:53.799 that really good support from GPT four. Oh interesting. Yeah, I've been 229 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:57.480 looking at these tools for a while. Now is good summarizers, you know, 230 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:00.319 and you know, it's funny to think in terms of graphs are supposed 231 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.000 to make it easier to read data. But I'm in the same situation as 232 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.960 a lot of those managers. I get twenty pages of visualizations of information where 233 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:11.759 I'm like, how do I summarize, you know, get this down to 234 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:15.839 one thing, you know, to be able to push it through a tool 235 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.839 to say what's the one page I should look at, or you know, 236 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.279 what's the sum of all of that and still have it being meaningful. That's 237 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:27.759 an interesting problem because I'd have never had a tool that could actually take a 238 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:32.960 bunch of graphs and give you a single description. Now, have you taken 239 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.599 this out for a spin? Like, have you tried doing that? I 240 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:38.759 tried to play with it a little bit. Unfortunately, didn't have enough time 241 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:48.319 to actually test it really well, but small scenarios something that they showed at 242 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:56.720 the presentation that open Ai did a couple of weeks ago that worked. Look 243 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:03.680 like it worked. I'm sure there are some downsides too, like I saw 244 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:10.920 people complaining online that it's a little slower than GPT four and GPT four vision. 245 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:17.079 But you know, there are always ups and downs. It also was 246 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:18.759 brand new, so everybody's playing with it at the same time. I'm sure 247 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.559 it's under a lot of load. Yeah, so I took it for a 248 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:27.200 spin. Of course. I have chatchapt four oh in a browser, and 249 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:33.359 I don't see any speech or anything, you know. I know, I've 250 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:38.920 used my voice to communicate with chat GPT four on my iPhone version before four 251 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:45.240 oh came out, and I could even and you can even attach pictures and 252 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:52.480 upload them. So I don't really know. And I don't see any like 253 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:59.559 speech things or anything different in the interface on the web anyway for chatchipt four 254 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.720 oh than I did for four So how does that work? Yeah, so 255 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:10.400 I think for end users the difference is maybe unnoticeable, as you said, 256 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:18.559 but behind the scene, I think that they just had to convert different inputs 257 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:25.440 into texts and then pass it to the model. So the API has endpoints 258 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:30.319 now that accept streams of audio and video, et cetera. Yeah, so 259 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.720 in theory it should be faster because we are eliminating that conversion part of it, 260 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:38.200 right, Okay, Yeah, I'll have to check my phone version. 261 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.240 But I didn't see anything in that either that was any different. Yeah. 262 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:45.720 I guess this is about digging into the API enough to see how the different 263 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:49.160 sources could be fed to it and and then what it will return. I 264 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:56.400 mean, I've always had it return as checks right, like summarize this additional 265 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.480 information, but I've never tried to have it returns like draw me a better 266 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:06.920 graph like that, because that also seems very precise for a tool that tends 267 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:11.400 its outputs don't tend to be that precise. So on the in the mobile 268 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.079 app, which I updated so it supports four Oh, now you have you 269 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.000 know a camera, you have you know, select a file, you have 270 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:23.960 select an image, you have a microphone, and you have headphones, which 271 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:30.880 I'm thinking is going to be you know, speech output. So so that's 272 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:36.640 good. The web version, however, no different. And I couldn't find 273 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:40.240 anything in the settings to enable it either. So then, yeah, did 274 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.240 my homework limitation on the web Pageah, we'll see. I even asked chat 275 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:51.680 GPT, right, how can I use speech to interact with chat GPT four? 276 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.720 Oh? And it says to use speech to interact with GPT four, 277 00:22:55.799 --> 00:23:00.880 Oh, you need to utilize voice input with voice recognition or voice input on 278 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:06.880 web browsers like Google Chrome or Speech to Text APIs right, So it really 279 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:11.440 doesn't offer any anything at the at the app level. It sure sounds like 280 00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:15.559 Microsoft documentation too, right, Like, yeah, it's an answer but not 281 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:22.200 actually used, not very helpful. Maybe I'm missing something. If I am, 282 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.680 somebody email me please let me know how this works. I yeah, 283 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:32.839 obviously all the demos I've seen, it's got that her vibe you know, 284 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:37.279 the movie and even to the point where Scarlett Johanson I believe, is suing 285 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:38.960 and I'm like, ah, why are we doing this? Why are we 286 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.240 going down this path? I know it's so stupid. I'm trying to get 287 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:47.400 this out of science people not think about this as science fiction and worry about 288 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:51.519 the fact not helping. Yeah, they're really not helping. Actually. Sam 289 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:57.119 Altman posted on x Twitter, saying her a couple of days out they release 290 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:03.720 Yeah, you know it's a copyrighted term there, Sam, right, like 291 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:08.920 what are you doing? Yeah? Yeah, it's not Scarlet's voice, but 292 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:15.160 it's someone who sounds like Scarlet's voice. Yeah, it's very very close. 293 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.720 And then again it's like, why would you do that? Scar Joe is 294 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.920 kind of famous for being willing to take on anyone. She took on Disney 295 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:27.920 for crying out loud and one yeah, and then still gets to work there, 296 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:33.640 Like who does that? Anyway? I Yeah, I wish they would 297 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.440 stay away from the science fiction parts, just because I think it's bad for 298 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:44.559 the for people to get caught up in the non facts. That mean, 299 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:47.839 it's good for fundraising just because Okay, if you want to deceive investors, 300 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:52.240 great, but trying to deceive regular people it's not not appropriate. Hey, 301 00:24:52.240 --> 00:25:00.920 we should break for a moment for this very important message. Hey there, 302 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:04.720 this is Jeff Fritz, the purple blazer guy from Microsoft, letting you in 303 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:08.720 on a little secret about my friend Carl Franklin. You know, the guy 304 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.279 who started dot net Rocks, the first podcast about dot net, way back 305 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.640 in two thousand and two. The guy who's been teaching Blazer on YouTube since 306 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.759 twenty twenty. Yeah, that Carl Franklin. Well, Carl has joined up 307 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:29.279 with Codina Castle to teach a week long hands on Blazer class this September. 308 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:34.480 And get this, it's at a castle slash villa in Tuscany. It's sort 309 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:40.599 of a luxury vacation with Blazer learning built in. He's calling it the Blazer 310 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.480 master Class. You'll learn Blazer from the ground up, finishing the week with 311 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.960 the ability to build and deploy Blazer applications. Now, Carl did this class 312 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.079 last year and it was a huge success. You can watch the awesome video 313 00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:57.960 from twenty twenty three on the website, which I'll share in just a few 314 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.920 seconds. Since the training happens for only four hours in the morning over six 315 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.279 days, you can bring your significant other with you and you should. This 316 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.359 part of Italy is absolutely beautiful. There's so much to see and do, 317 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:18.359 and Larry and Marco from Code in a Castle are organizing daily activities both at 318 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.240 the castle and in the area. The castle is in the Marema, a 319 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:27.599 less tourist y region of Tuscany, offering both classic Tuscan hill country as well 320 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:34.279 as easy access to the Etruscan Riviera with sublime local food, wine and olive 321 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:40.200 oil around every corner. Breakfast is included every day. There will be two 322 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:44.759 communal dinners at the castle, bookending the experience, and most other meals in 323 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.240 all activities are included. And did I mention you'll learn Blazer in person from 324 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:55.279 Carl Franklin. Space is limited and for good reason. This is a quality 325 00:26:55.319 --> 00:27:00.079 training experience in a beautiful setting. Go to Code in a Castle dot com 326 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:08.319 slash Blazer twenty twenty four that's b la zo R two zero two four. 327 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:15.640 To take advantage of this amazing opportunity to join Carl in Tuscany for an unforgettable 328 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:30.960 week of ladocha vita while advancing your programming skills in this important new technology. 329 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:37.759 You know it's common for business application to contain fifteen percent repetitive code just because 330 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:44.440 of metaprogramming limitations in the C sharp language. Why write boilerplate manually when a 331 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:48.519 machine could generate it for you? Enter Metalama, the code generation and Verification 332 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:53.599 toolkit for C Sharp. Their C Sharp to c sharp template language is simply 333 00:27:53.720 --> 00:28:00.880 amazing. Logging caching memento observable if it's repetitive of Metalama can automate it. 334 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:07.119 Visit metalama dot net today and learn to automate your code patterns with their free 335 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.640 edition. Remember it's Metalama with one L M E T A L A M 336 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:17.640 A dot net. Now we're back, it's dot net rocks. I'm Richard 337 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:21.720 Campbell. That's Carl franken Hey talking to our friend Veronica a bit about the 338 00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.319 new GPT four O and that's a oh, is an omni zero? Because 339 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:32.720 why would that be confusing? And just a reminder, if you don't want 340 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.200 to hear any ads, you can be a patron for five bucks a month. 341 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:41.400 You can get an ad free feed. Go to Patreon dot dot nenrocks 342 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.960 dot com. All right, awesome, where we we were talking about the 343 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.279 things that you think are interesting that are coming up here and that you've played 344 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:56.200 around with. Is there something that you have not yet seen that holds a 345 00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:02.319 promise that that you think is really really valuable for people, not just developers. 346 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:08.960 That's a good question. I feel like those companies are so creative Open 347 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.359 Ai and then Microsoft joined them, Google Italy as trying to catch up. 348 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:22.200 Now we'll on mask with x Ai, which I heard a lot about but 349 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:27.039 I haven't trusted it or I haven't touched it. Actually. Yeah, so 350 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:37.519 there are new opportunities every day and new functionality. I feel like they're improving 351 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:45.640 of something like copilot for developers, for example. It is pretty good now, 352 00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:53.160 but there are still a lot of opportunities for improving it and making it 353 00:29:53.240 --> 00:30:00.839 better. I'm always laughing with my colleagues. We got access to COPI a 354 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:07.039 couple of weeks ago, maybe a month or so ago, and I'm always 355 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:18.519 fascinating how it tries to fill out like text. So you type in text 356 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:23.680 name of your variable and it's trying to feel it for you, or a 357 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:30.279 name of a LaMDA function for example, or connection string, and screen fills 358 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:36.039 up with gray letters. Yeah yeah, but I'm like, is it useful? 359 00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:40.599 I don't want it to fill out everything. Apparently you can turn that 360 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.920 feature off if you don't want it constantly suggesting things. If you want to 361 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:47.519 just read your comments and generate code, you can do that too. I 362 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:53.279 find that chat chat GPT I use when I need like more lines of code 363 00:30:53.359 --> 00:31:00.039 to generate than co pilot is going to do very easily. Copilot's really good, 364 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.079 I think for small algorithms, small blocks of code, but if I 365 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:10.279 need it to if I need some serious generation alice chat GPT. So but 366 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:15.079 between those two, it you know, really helps a lot. I saved 367 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:22.039 hours just in the last day implementing some stuff that was really really uh you 368 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:27.119 know, case heavy, like switch heavy. You know, like there's there's 369 00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:32.240 this I don't want to go into details, but there's this class with like 370 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:37.480 four hundred fields in it that represent every piece of a CSV file. And 371 00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:40.799 you know that's the way they wanted it coded. And so if I need 372 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:47.160 to do anything with those with all of those things, it it's a lot 373 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:52.000 of a lot of repetitive code. And chat GPT made short shrift to that. 374 00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:57.720 It was great. How you tried the co pilot chat co pilot chat 375 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.759 have co pilot chat. Oh so yeah, so that's right from Visual Studio. 376 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.640 You can use that, right, Yeah, I have not and VS 377 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:12.480 code works there. Yeah. What's better about that than say, using chat 378 00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.599 GPT. It's just convenient. You don't need to jump back and forth. 379 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:23.519 You can also reference your code that you've already written or specific files you wanted 380 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:29.799 to reference as well. Yeah, Okay, there's so many GitHub co pilot 381 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:36.359 products now because there's there's also co pilot workspaces, not to be confused with 382 00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.400 workspaces, because why would anyone get that confused. Yeah, but I just 383 00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:45.039 got my my beta access to it, and I haven't had time to really 384 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:47.480 take this out for a spin. But boy, talk about an interesting collaboration 385 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:54.359 tool. It's just to have more information available to you and to think project 386 00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:58.960 wise. Like I'm with you, Carl, little chunks of code, right, 387 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:02.640 like that seems to work fine. I don't think about discussing with the 388 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:07.200 tool the architecture of a project. No, but you do need to you 389 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.119 know, I find that with chatchipt anyway. You need to give it just 390 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:15.039 enough information so that it can, you know, do stuff. So if 391 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:22.039 I have something that requires, you know, four hundred cases in a switch, 392 00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:25.039 right, I do the first ten and then there's an obvious pattern there 393 00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:29.599 and I'll say here fill in the rest of these, so very internal, 394 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:31.920 right, let the intern do Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, 395 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:37.400 I mean I respect that that's useful. It saves time, less typos maybe 396 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.440 right, No, it worked perfectly, did exactly what I asked it to 397 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.759 do. Yeah. Well, anyway, I saw an example with GPT four 398 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:52.920 oh, when they just provided the diagram and then ask it to create code 399 00:33:53.960 --> 00:34:00.960 for that application. It wasn't like super complex application, but based on what 400 00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:07.960 they posted online it worked. Was it like a UML dihighground? Yeah? 401 00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:15.280 I think it was just simple A couple of boxes connected together and then flow 402 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.840 chart. I saw that. I saw a Twitter post about that maybe a 403 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:25.639 few months ago, but I never saw it in action, never tried it. 404 00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:30.920 Interesting idea because I remember seeing that early in early days of Azure they 405 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:36.000 had sort of a diagrammer you could use in the portal for you know, 406 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.920 laying out an app and then it would generate like the network calls and and 407 00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:46.280 vms and things like that. Remember Windows Workflow didn't write code like it's interesting 408 00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:51.760 to actually, you know, build that flow or draw out the flow and 409 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:53.280 have it generate the code, because and I've seen it go the other way 410 00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:57.760 where it's like show me a flow chart of this code, you know, 411 00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:00.239 which I think is super useful too, because I hate trying flow charts and 412 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:01.960 often I end up writing a bunch of code. It's like, what have 413 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.559 I done? The fact that it could tell you that that should be a 414 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:14.159 tool in visual studio. Do you remember Windows Workflow foundation briefly I'm trying to 415 00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:17.519 forget, but it seemed awfully cumbersome without you know, it was a one 416 00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.840 point oh product. It came out, We're dot net three. It's probably 417 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:25.880 part of the fallout of Longhorn for Crimelud, and I like the idea. 418 00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.559 They were trying to make a generalized workflow engine. It's just a that's a 419 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.599 really hard problem be. It was tainted with the disaster that was what was 420 00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:37.840 Longhorn. Yeah, yeah, we're still getting over it. But now apparently, 421 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.400 you know, maybe you could use a tool like visio to create a 422 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.679 diagram which includes classes and variables and stuff and just say here, build this, 423 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:49.920 yeah, and build a framework for you. That's what I want. 424 00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:52.559 Really, I don't want the whole application. I just want it do. 425 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:59.239 I just want help getting started with stuff that's gonna be several types, you 426 00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:05.440 know, several class and lists and things, and you know, implement a 427 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:10.360 custom list that overrides the you know, the methods for adding into leading and 428 00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:15.159 updating and all that stuff. You know, things like that, stuff that 429 00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:21.039 I really don't want to write. I like your word, Richard the intern 430 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.960 Yeah, it's like, here, write this code. Then, yeah, 431 00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.840 do you see these tools starting to take lead on projects. Veronica, Like, 432 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:30.599 this is really a thing, because you know, we've had We've had 433 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:34.280 folks talk that way too. It's like, when are we the intern and 434 00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.840 the tool is now you know leading? Yeah, I don't see right now, 435 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:44.480 who knows in a couple of years. Oh, I've read too many 436 00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:46.840 books that say, listen, there's no determinism in this software generated I is 437 00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:51.920 good some stuff, but that's not it. I mean architecture as checklist. 438 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.519 Sure, it's like, hey, I want to lay out an architecture, 439 00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:58.440 and now the tool is going to keep your mindy you to fill in these 440 00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.360 bits like have you done this part? And have you done that part. 441 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:07.599 That's what they're talking about with workspaces is like now that the LM is the 442 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:13.039 nagging project manager saying you said you'd get it done by this time, and 443 00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:16.000 you said you do these pieces like it's making sure all the boxes are checked, 444 00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:21.000 which I got un useful because I don't mind yelling at the automated PM. 445 00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.760 Well that's when you feel like the tool. That's Oh, I'm the 446 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:35.639 tool. This code created by a tool. It still seems like a partner 447 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.679 for the most part. But we're only a year into this for crying out 448 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:47.119 loud. Yeah, but it's really helpful. I remember it took me a 449 00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:52.159 lot of time to actually search for something online and get answers, so maybe 450 00:37:52.519 --> 00:38:00.719 I obviously don't remember all the functions ever or like libraries. Yeah, so 451 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.960 it was taking me a long long time to find something specific, but now 452 00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:14.239 it's getting really easy with al Alam and Jenny Ai, whether using GPT or 453 00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:21.760 using GILB copilot for example. I like what Microsoft is promising with you know, 454 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.599 your databases and all the stuff that's in your one drive and all the 455 00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:32.400 stuff that's in M three sixty five. It just becomes you know, vectorized, 456 00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.119 and so you can use natural language just to find things in your email 457 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:43.639 for example, or on teams, just stuff that happened that you don't have 458 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:49.559 to go searching for. Sort of like the search idea has just taken over 459 00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:54.360 AI in terms of you know what Microsoft is doing anyway, they but we 460 00:38:54.440 --> 00:39:00.280 can't stop. We can't leave here today without bringing the elephant in the room, 461 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:08.800 which is the R word recall. So something that Microsoft announced that would 462 00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:15.039 be coming to Windows eleven soon that's going to take pictures of your screen and 463 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:20.239 keep them somewhere. I don't know, maybe in the cloud and then let 464 00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:24.519 you and when you do these semantic searches about things that you were doing on 465 00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:29.440 a particular date and time, when was I talking about that? Blah blah 466 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:32.280 blah, Like it's going to use that to figure things out. But it's 467 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:37.559 also you know, the the privacy nuts are going crazy over this. Yeah, 468 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:44.000 except these tools existed for decades, Like there's nothing there's been there's been 469 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:47.719 a widget for taking screenshots at regular intervals for like twenty years. Yeah. 470 00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:52.079 I don't know why this is different that people are flipping about it. Well 471 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:53.039 is it? You know, if you don't like it, don't turn it 472 00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:58.239 on. I was under the impression it's going to be on by default, 473 00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:02.360 which is different, and now you have to turn it off. No, 474 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:08.039 no, no, no, okay. You can also search through your history. 475 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:15.039 So you were taking screenshots, you still had to go and manually search 476 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:20.920 for information or we were back to it, and now it's all automatic. 477 00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:24.320 It's going to be factorized, right, Yeah, I mean that's the big 478 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:29.679 difference now is we have really great tools for looking through all those screenshots to 479 00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:32.719 actually find what you were doing. Yeah, and it is I don't know. 480 00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:38.360 I was confused about the amount of data they're going to store. Yeah, 481 00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:43.519 okay, I just found I mean, how many screenshots? How much 482 00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:45.400 space do all those screenshots take? Yeah? Yeah, it's going to use 483 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:52.800 local storage, so that that at least is good. You know, it's 484 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:55.760 not sending stuff up to the cloud where other people can mine it for information 485 00:40:57.199 --> 00:41:00.079 very easier. Local storage is going to be filled up in a couple of 486 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:05.079 days. Yeah, I don't know the answer. That's a good question. 487 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:10.320 When or when do you let it purge, clean itself up to I mean, 488 00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:17.360 there's tiers here, there's recall for your own use. We you know, 489 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:21.159 as soon as you go down the M three sixty five path. And 490 00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:25.000 we talk about this on run as all the time. It's like, now 491 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.960 you're in the corporate surveillance side of things, which there's some legitimate parts to 492 00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:34.159 that, Like you know, I've spent enough time working with email administrators where 493 00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:38.320 it's like, listen, if you harass someone via company email, the company's 494 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.360 liable. So the company has an obligation to be aware of what's going on 495 00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:45.400 inside of email. That does mean read everybody's email, but it does mean 496 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:51.920 there are tools watching for harassment that then can lift it up to the point 497 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:53.760 to say, hey, somebody else should be able to see this and do 498 00:41:53.840 --> 00:42:00.880 something about it. And so I'll recall as a tool around activity inside the 499 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.559 company. That's interesting, But you would hope all this stuff is pretty tightly 500 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.119 locked down. But you know what, I like having a dashcam on my 501 00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:14.360 car, you know, because then I have an incontribusible copy of what happened 502 00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.960 in my car, how fast I was going, when when that guy did 503 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:20.639 cut in front of me, like all of those sorts of things. I 504 00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:23.800 kind of like this dash cam for my computer too. What was it I 505 00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:27.760 was doing? Yeah, when that when I had that problem. If I 506 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:31.800 have storage space, I'll use it. What I don't want is a dashcam 507 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:37.639 that's sending my data to somewhere. Yeah, And olers don't know why you 508 00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:39.960 would think that, seeing how Microsoft is supposed to be the privacy guys. 509 00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:44.880 Yeah, well it's not the case. So I was concerned about that, 510 00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:46.400 but you're right, it's not the case. And it does say pre rex 511 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:52.920 are a co pilot plus PC, of which I think there's like none right 512 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:57.360 now for and there's only well there's only beta versions or alpha versions. Yeah, 513 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.199 no, they it's a particular machine. These are once they announced at 514 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:06.239 build, right, you can pre order for June, so by the time 515 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:07.280 this show is out, in theory, you're gonna be a get one. 516 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:12.039 But it's got a co pilot key, which is really important. But it 517 00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:15.440 has something else too, right, is there some sort of chippy stuff built 518 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:21.039 in for AI that isn't on a copilot plus PC? Well, the ones 519 00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:25.239 that they were announcing it build were either Windows on ARM Snapdragon yeah right, 520 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:30.960 Snapdragon. And it's got a pretty seriously powerful MP unit like forty five tops, 521 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:37.559 which is the current measurement system, which is questionable but okay, questionable 522 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:46.079 meaning questionable just because like measuring the measuring the computational potential of a neural processor 523 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:52.199 is an interesting problem. Like those are very academic benchmarks in their early stage 524 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.639 benchmarks for new technology, So you know, how will we be sure that 525 00:43:55.639 --> 00:44:00.199 that number is meaningful in terms of actual use? Are you gonna order or 526 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:09.199 buy a one of these Snapdragon PCs Veronica? I wasn't planning to the relatively 527 00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:14.480 reasonably priced. I think that the mid range unit was like less than two 528 00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:19.679 k USD And somebody asked me if we're going to do a dot at rocks 529 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:22.639 on Windows on ARM. I'm like, that's a pretty short show. Yeah, 530 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:27.360 sure, yes, you know, yes, yeah, we done like 531 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.599 that. I don't even know if you'll need to recompile. I suspect the 532 00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:34.760 gitteral just go oh it's armed, let's go. Yeah, I think so 533 00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.480 too. That's funny, right, like, okay, yeah, not really 534 00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:42.599 think they the CLR team solved this long ago. I want to see how 535 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:46.320 successful it's going to be. It's not all Microsoft products, especially on hardware 536 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:52.159 site, were successful, that's right. Well, they do have a bunch 537 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.760 of third party vendors. The asis is and Lenovo's and so forth are supposed 538 00:44:54.760 --> 00:45:01.559 to release machines too, and the Snapdragon ships that is in pressive truly, 539 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:07.559 that's pretty cool. But I'm with you. You know, generally speaking, 540 00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:12.599 the surface units are the most expensive versions of this. Like, i'd be 541 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.000 interesting to see what an Asis or any of the other vendors actually can make 542 00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:21.840 from that gear, and you know how regional price would be. Battery life 543 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:22.719 should be epic, right, I mean, that's the whole thing with the 544 00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:27.400 ARM chip set is you should be able not even need to charge every day 545 00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:30.039 anymore, right, which that would be nice so Veronica, what's in your 546 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:36.119 inbox? What's coming up next for you? So? I am planning to 547 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:45.159 actually play with all the stuff that was just announced Build, especially on responsible 548 00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:50.920 AI side. There are lots of new tools and it is really interesting. 549 00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:58.000 They showed them I built. Looks like they're really cool, working, really 550 00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:05.239 great. I want to see it for my self. Speaking wise, I 551 00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:09.480 am going to Kansas City in a couple of weeks. That's the show we're 552 00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:14.079 going to both be at. Yeah. Yeah, I won't be there, 553 00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:16.039 but we could probably do something remote, Richard, if you want to. 554 00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:22.920 That's fine. We got We're gonna have so many shows between Build and and 555 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.440 and OSLO, and I think we're going to be well into August, so 556 00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.800 I wouldn't too far ahead. Well that's really great. What's the talk you're 557 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.440 doing in Kansas City, Fornica. So in Kansas City, I will be 558 00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:40.079 talking about responsibily I thanks to Microsoft, I probably have to change half of 559 00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:49.159 my talk, Yeah, because I before the talk was mostly focused on the 560 00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:54.840 responsibility. I inside the machine learning studio that they have and they still have 561 00:46:54.960 --> 00:47:02.159 it, the dashboard, then the report, but now I feel like they're 562 00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:08.280 moving more towards general of AI analysis and all those content safety tools. So 563 00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:13.079 I do want to include more of it into my talk. And is that 564 00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.639 part of as your AI studio. Where's a lot of those safety tools living? 565 00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:20.559 Yeah, so I know they have a separate portal, but I prefer 566 00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:24.920 to access through them as your REI studio. Yeah, which makes sense. 567 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:29.599 It's a really great place to work. Yeah, and certainly get to you 568 00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:32.800 know, you get a huge dashboard of choices, like how many models would 569 00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:36.800 you like to play with? Because there's way too many. Yeah. Yeah, 570 00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:40.239 I'm looking forward to using that studio as well, just to see what 571 00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:45.360 the heck you can do in it. The demos we're impressive. Yeah, 572 00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:51.280 with that security approach where it's going to keep you from accidentally making a bad 573 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:57.760 thing as well or putting yourself in danger or inappropriate responses like I don't know, 574 00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:00.960 I got to think the average dev is pretty free. Doubt about incorporating 575 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:04.519 this as software when you when you have all these terrible stories of how badly 576 00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:07.639 it can go off the rails, right right, You know, I came 577 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.079 for tech support. I got told to get a divorce. We need more 578 00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:16.320 positive stories. Stories are boring, Carl, No, they're not they're amazing. 579 00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:21.280 I mean I told one today. You know, it's just but it's 580 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.199 just a day in the life, you know. How about you, listeners, 581 00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:28.719 Do you have any positive stories of interactions with AI or negative ones for 582 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:30.400 that matter, but we want to hear the good news. Let us know. 583 00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:34.760 You know how to get in touch with this well. Veronica, thanks 584 00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:37.320 very much for spending the hour with us. It's been a pleasure talking to 585 00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:40.599 you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Yeah, see in Kansas 586 00:48:40.800 --> 00:49:00.920 and we'll talk to you, dear listener next time on dot net rocks. 587 00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:09.760 Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, 588 00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:15.079 a full service audio, video and post production facility located physically in New 589 00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:22.079 London, Connecticut, and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. 590 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:24.159 Visit our website at d O T N E T R O c k 591 00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:30.599 S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads, mobile apps, comments, and 592 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:35.360 access to the full archives going back to show number one, recorded in September 593 00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:37.920 two thousand and two. And make sure you check out our sponsors. They 594 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:42.880 keep us in business. Now go write some code. See you next time. 595 00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:45.639 You got jam Vans