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Creativity and a learning mindset are essential
to succeed. Learn how these innovators put

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these skills to use to become the
best in their fields. Welcome to Innovators

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to Know. Brought to you by
Idemics today. I'm thrilled to introduce to

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you Deborah Rappaport. Deborah, Welcome
to the Idemics podcast. Thank you,

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delighted to be here. Deborah Rappaport
is a visual artist working with non traditional

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and repurposed materials to create wearables that
she often supports herself as Today, her

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hats start with what she's called the
ABC system, and I really want Debora

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to explain that acronym to us as
we go along here. But in every

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way, she's been a visionary ahead
of her time years ago, embracing the

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idea that frugality is fun and constantly
reinventing and curating her closet without being a

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conspicuous consumer. Deborah was trendy and
sustainable before it was trendy to be sustainable.

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Her work is in a variety of
museum collections, including the met in

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New York, law Nelle, the
Ilias Slalonis Museum in Athens, and the

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Hermitage in Saint Petersburg among others.
Deborah, we're so thrilled to have you

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with us today. Thank you.
Delighted. So, Deborah, I want

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to take a quick look at this
short clip which really talks about how you

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got started doing what you do.
Let's take a quick listen. This was

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an old soul that was in the
street, so I picked that up and

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then I came back and in five
minutes I made the halt. And again

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it's just debris, Deborah, debris
residuap before the floral embellishment in this is

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just cut up toilet paper rolls.
It would naturally curls and so it becomes

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like a blossom. I just love
it in the good garbage over there,

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I want that piece of metal.
I love that recycled materials speak to me

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because they just show up in my
life and it's like we have a relationship.

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So something happens and they become like
a friend, and it's like I

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can't walk away from me. I
can't let you go in the landfill.

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I need to take you home and
befriend you. Debra. How did you

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begin creating style items from pieces that
you found? And you've done this now

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for so long. How has your
process changed over time? Well, I

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guess it really comes from curiosity and
experimentation. And my mother was very creative

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and she allowed us to make things, stay home and be creative, dress

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up and none of that was considered
frivolous because it was a creative act and

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self expression and that was the most
important thing. So I think it started

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at age three, and then when
I went to art school, I was

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really interested in materials that I found
that were available even before recycle and sustainability

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mattered. And you know part of
it. When you're in school, you

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don't have a huge budget, so
you can't go out, and you know,

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unless you're a goldsmith, you're gonna
get gold. And I just started

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too. I went down to the
local television station and they had old,

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thick videotape then, and I asked
for reels of that and I started crocheting

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with that because I come from a
textile background. Yeah, so I did

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weaving and crocheting and knitting in macromay
and other forms of nodding. And you

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not thought from your mother and grandmother, well a little bit and Nana Tortois

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knitting, okay, you know,
And even though I was left handed.

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Nana said, I can't teach you
knitting your left handed. I said,

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but Nana, you knit were two
hey hands. Yeah. So I picked

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up my sisters and I said,
okay, Nana helped me. So it

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just went off from there. Yeah, you know, some materials was part

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of it. Process was part of
it. Hands on was always part of

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it. We loved being in the
kitchen and cooking, so we loved washing

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vegetables and cleaning them. Yeah,
and so it was all It's all about

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the hands, you know. Yeah, and being left handed. My hands

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were important to me. Yeah,
sort of the tactile experience of working with

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materials of different kinds totally, totally. And how did that evolve for you

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over time? You talked about while
being in art school using the sold videotape

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that really you started to crochet and
kind of make materials. Whiz. How

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has that evolved over time for you? Well, I still am attracted to

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unusual things that are just showing up. Like in the seventies, I came

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back to New York. I was
living in California. I came back for

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a visit and I stayed a few
months, and I started finding found metal

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in the streets, and I started
putting that together into wearables, just like

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what I'm wearing here, only this
is a current one. Yeah, And

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I did that all through the nineties, and then cars been made out of

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plastics, so there was very little
metal to be found. Lately, I'm

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finding more, and I'm trained by
partner and he comes home every day with

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at least two pieces. And then
you know, it was just other things,

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just old textiles, old rope,
paper chord. I love paper chord

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because I couldn't unply it and make
it flat, keep it, keep it

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a linear element, and anything else
that just seems to show up for some

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reason. I find things and they
speak to me. So it's about the

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relationship. It's not forcing it.
It's like I can't walk by and not

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pick that up and take it home
and have some kind of an agreement and

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arrangement with it. Enough what you
said in terms of that these materials speak

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to you because on the one hand, they're a symbol of our society right

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at any given time, like what
are we throwing away as a society and

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a community. And at the same
time, there's this really personal affinity and

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connection that you develop with these objects. That really give them the life and

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meaning that they then go on to
have. Whether it's in the form of

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a necklace or a work of art
that you may create, it's fantastic,

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fantastic. I want to take a
quick look at this clip from a Ted

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talk that Deborah did. Let's take
a quick listen. Allow me to introduce

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one of the first women that I
ever photographed, Deba Rappaport. She is

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a perfect example of someone who is
aging with vitality. I was a very

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creative child. My sister and I
love to dress up. Instead of dolls,

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we would dress ourselves up. This
was encouraged by my mother and my

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grandmother because they could see us develop
and discover an experiment finding creative solutions throughout

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life. I used that still today
as a way of solving issues. As

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a child, I was a very
intense, shy, an extremely big warrior,

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so much so that my father would
say to me, I think I

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will hire you to worry for me. Creativity was my way out. I

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felt that with creativity there are no
rules, and without rules, there is

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no fear. We felt safe and
we felt that there was no judgment.

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School didn't always feel that way.
My mother was a maverick and a seeker,

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and we became strict vegetarians in the
late nineteen forties, so she would

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keep us home for wellness days because
we were never sick, and this was

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an opportunity to go museuming, go
antiquing, and make art. Boy was

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she ahead of her time, being
so shy and independent. I knew I

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had to structure my own life,
but how I wanted to stay home while

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my older, very beautiful, sophisticated
sister was out on the town. I

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wanted to stay home, dress up, dress the dog, and invent outfits

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that would embellish and camouflage and be
tenting over my less than perfect teenage body.

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I called this ABC's Assembling, building
and Constructing. Debora talked at your

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ted talk about how your creativity was
fostered as a child. You mentioned it

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in terms of your mother and grandmother, and how we need to do the

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same for future generations. In some
ways, we've failed to do that as

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a society, right We I think
started with industrialization and this idea that people

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had to become quite specialized and sort
of get into a track and stay on

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that track for their whole careers and
minds, and we've almost sort of sucked

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the creativity out of work and professional
engagement. And it's reflected, I think

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in the degree of dissatisfaction that people
feel with the work that they do,

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that they don't feel they're fulfilling their
sense of purpose. Tend us a little

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about that. Well, starting with
the educational system, I think a lot

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of schools are cutting out the art
programs and movement. Now they beginning to

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come back because they recognize the importance, especially if children are under privileged,

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and they can't do that as an
after school activity because children have to create.

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And I found everything was okay until
they went to first grade, and

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then suddenly intimidation stepped in and it's
like, no, that's not the way

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you do that, that's not the
way you draw that. All of these

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rules and so one of my favorite
quotes that I say is, with this

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creativity there are no rules. Where
there are no rules, there is no

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fear. It's the rules that just
break you down, freeze you, and

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intimidate you. So young children are
totally fearless, and we have to keep

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that active play and that youthfulness and
say, well, you know, it's

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not brain surgery. I can't make
a mistake, so it's wrong. You

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know. Oftentimes when I teach a
workshop, we'll start out and make a

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very simple collage piece of paper,
a couple images past, and then I

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say, okay, we're going to
tear it in half, tear it and

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half. My chef, dever,
you're gonna make me destroy it and tear

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it in half. Yes, And
if you tear it in half, give

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half of it to the person sitting
next to you, and now take the

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other half. Do something with that. And then I say, okay,

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now we're warmed up. Now we're
ready to start. Because nothing is that

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precious. Yes. And when you
make a piece of art and you don't

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love it, you put it aside
for a while, You look at it.

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In a few days, it looks
different, maybe you take a part

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of it, turn it upside down, and suddenly it's a brand new thing.

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That that's inspirational. And that's the
creative process. It's a process,

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and you can't be creative without making
a mess. I have another story.

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My grandpa, Russian Jews, would
come into my sister and I would go

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stay over and we'd go to the
sewing machine and we take out the button

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draw and we dump it in the
living room floor and start to play.

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And Grandpa would say, oh,
all right, they're making a mess,

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and Grandma would say, be quiet, they're being creative. And that runs

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through every cell in my body,
you know, And God bless Grandma,

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absolutely, God Fessor. Indeed,
how do you feel, Deborah, You've

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been doing this for a very long
time at this point, how do you

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feel your work impacts the next generation? And so many are now present right

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and have had experiences of your work
or had an opportunity to be in workshops

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with you. Tell us how you
feel that impacts them. Well, I

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have like more twenty five thirty year
old friends than I have friends my age,

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and I just love that opportunity.
And they are now aware of the

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state of the planet, so they
are into permaculture and recycling and and all

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of that. Yes, and then
when we meet up, we're on the

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same page in a way, and
I just encourage them based that I've been

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doing this fifty five almost sixty years
and it didn't have a title or a

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real purpose other than it worked for
me. So I am seeing the young

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people very very intrigued and very committed
to this movement and they're doing great things.

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I'm so proud of them. It's
here to stay. Yeah, yeah,

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and they're taking it to another level
totally. Yeah. As you look

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back on your career, what were
the difficult moments? Well, what were

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some of the challenges that you dealt
with. Well, there's always a challenge

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of how am I going to make
a living? Yes, you know.

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And I did teach at the University
of California, Davis for eight years,

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and it was a tenured job and
I loved it, and I loved my

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faculty. I'm still friends with all
of them if they're alive. But there

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was something about academia that just didn't
resonate with me. It was a little

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political, and I found myself having
headach and throwing up on my way home,

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and I said, there's something wrong
with this picture. So I said,

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I've got to leave, and of
course everybody thought I'd lost my mind.

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So I took a year's leave of
absence. And at that point I

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was collaborating with two other women artists, and we were doing performance art also

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around food and healing and textiles and
women's issues. It was the middle age

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seventies, and then I went back
and I asked my chairperson. I said,

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well, is it possible for me
to come back and teach collaboratively?

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And he said, well, we
don't do that here, and I said,

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well then I have to say farewell. So then I divorced my husband

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came back to New York, and
I said, what am I going to

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do? I was still making artwork, exhibiting, selling some but how was

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I going to pay the rent?
Yeah, And of course that's always an

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issue. And that's one of the
reasons I never wanted to have children,

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because I knew it would be hard
enough to take care of myself, let

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alone an additional appendage. And and
then my sister and I started a catering

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business and we catered the galleries and
the craft museum and that circle of friends.

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And then shortly after that, I
started a flower business with a friend

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who happened to also be a weaver, and we did that for sixteen years.

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And it was very similar to being
a weaver because it was colored texture

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placement, and she was very savvy
and horticulture, so she taught me that

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end. And we were so well
known in the flower market and all over

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because we were over the top and
we were older already. I was in

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my fifties, she was almost in
her sixties. And we loved it until

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we were exhausted and couldn't deal with
it anymore. Because everybody thinks it's the

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most glamorous business, but it's hard
work. It's hard work, very hard

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money business is really hard work,
yeah, and getting away from and physical

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as well, slapping the plants and
the water and the buckets and changing and

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anyway. So you know, I
figured out start a business. I wanted

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to be something I can relate to
ye and to open a flower shop,

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And I said flowers yes, shop
no, because I knew how difficult it

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would be to have a retail space. You know, then you have to

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start selling greening cards and daisiesn't isn't
it? So we just kept it.

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It was called institute and we worked
on site only fantastic. It is sends

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you what you've described in terms of
leaving U, see Davis, and the

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reason you left you, see Davis, purely you were seeking collaboration in the

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two things you did after that,
both with your sister as well as with

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your friend. And collaborations are they
fuel our creativity, right, And to

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your point earlier in your workshops where
you want an interaction and engagement and collaboration

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among two participants so that they interact
with but also are able to key off

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each other's work. How in your
creative work with the Rat's majewelry that you

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make, has that collaboration piece being
a factor or less of a factor there?

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Well, collaboration is a great word
because you can really learn from each

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other. There can be competition,
of course, but one aspect I see

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as collaboration is when you have things
that are wearable. You're walking down the

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street and people stop and talk to
you, and so it's immediate inspiration on

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that level, again without intimidation,
or I'm in a workshop, you know

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what am I going to do?
Am I going to succeed? And all

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that? Yeah, And Ari said
from Advanced Style years ago, said oh,

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well, you really have to do
e commerce. This was years ago.

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And I said, oh no,
Ari, I'm not going to do

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e commerce. I'm just going to
do me commerce. Walk the streets.

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If people stop me, I'll give
out cards. Anybody's welcome to come over

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and look at what I have or
share the process. And I made so

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many friends over the years, especially
through Facebook and Instagram. Yeah, people

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all over the world that I visit, they come, you know, everybody

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comes to New York. So the
collaboration continues and in workshops again because everything

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I teach is so low tech,
nobody is panic struck or intimidated by it.

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You know, we work with toilet
paper rolls, which we make the

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cuffs, the earrings are made from
toilet paper rolls. You know, other

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bracelets that are made from the paper
towels, like the hats, which I

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didn't bring any And so it's some
of the work that the students do because

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it's so excited, it just even
outshines my work. So again it's a

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collaboration where I'm stimulated. I benefit
from it as well as you know,

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the back of the forth has them. Yeah, what's the most in terms

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of demographic that you love working with
the most? What is that age group

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really, either like twenty thirty or
eighty ninety Okay, okay, because again

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there's a hunger, yes there,
yes, So it seems to be that

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they're very, very open, fantastic. Yeah, So let's shift gears a

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little bit, Debra, as you
look back, what role has coaching at

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because we're coaching company ideas and mentorship
played in your life. You know,

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we're big believers in the importance of
and the two are so in our linked

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of creativity and learning that as we
go through our lives and careers, we're

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constantly in a process of learning.
And we look actively as individuals for ways

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to learn. And some of those
are you know, sort of independent ways

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through reading and watching and creating.
Some of those are collaborative through working with

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other people, working with a coach, etc. So what would you say

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the role of coaching and mentorship has
been for you? I think it's like

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everything like life itself. It's like, Um, you're always sharing, you're

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always answering questions, you're always asking
questions. Um, how else do we

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learn? And trial and error,
experimentation, Yeah, Um to me that

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that's that's the greatest. You know, to try to be fearless and try

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on new hats all the time,
yes, And a proposed to that.

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People say, oh, I can't
wear hats. I don't look good in

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hats, And I'd say, well, let's just try one on. And

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the menu you put a hat on, there's what we call hattitude. Something

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changes in the personality and people are
suddenly yeah, oh you know, and

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it may not be the perfect hat. Say you try a different one,

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you try it forward, you try
it back, hair out, hair in.

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You know again, it's not brain
surgery. Let's just get back to

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playing. Yes, you know,
it's a creative process. And are there

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individuals that you field were particularly influential
in your revolution? Looking back, there

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are a few designers, you know, people say, who's your favorite Hollywood

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star? Um, oh god,
I just had her name earlier. Now

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god, it'll come, no worries. She's one of the voice that was

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in the New Pinocchia. Oh good, all right, she's Scottish. Okay,

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it'll come to me. Yeah.
Um, of course. I I

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have had a couple of professors who
were incredibly influential, and other artists friends

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who you know, I learned from
them or we learned together. Um.

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You know, I think living in
a city twelve, living in a city

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like New York with this sum much
stimulation, you know, you're learning every

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day. Your eyes are open and
you're taking in and of course travel,

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yes, you know, especially going
to places like Turkey, India, South

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America, you know where the cultures
are so completely different than our rigid and

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western culture totally. So last question, Deborah, what overall message would you

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like to convey as an ambassador for
the Advanced Style movement and maybe to our

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audience actually, because we didn't talk
about this, I'd love you to explain

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in your own words, both the
Advanced Style movement as well as your ABC

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method. Oh okay, yeah,
So Advanced Style started in two thousand and

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eight. And I met Ari Sethko
in two thousand and nine. Yeah,

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And he was working at the New
Museum, managing the bookstore. And I

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walked in. It was a rainy
day. I checked my umbrella, my

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raincoat, and he runs up to
me and says, oh, can I

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take your picture? I'd take photographs
of women over sixty And I said,

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how do you know I'm over sixty? And then he said, oh,

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but I forgot my cameras, so
he borrowed somebody's cell phone. They existed

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already, and then I whipped out
my card and I said, well,

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why don't you come over. I'll
dress up, I'll undress, and I'll

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make you a vegetarian lunch. So
I didn't hear from him. Five days

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later I called him. He came
over, we spent the whole day together,

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and the rest of his history and
eventually he moved to la with his

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husband. But I'm still like his
New York mom. And so the whole

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advanced style thing was really it was
encouraged by his grandmother who had just passed

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away, who was a brilliant librarian
and very creative. And Ari feels like

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he learned everything about the creative process
through Grandma again. And so when he

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came to New York, he had
never picked up a camera, and suddenly

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he saw all these incredible women and
he said, I have to do something

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about this. And blogs were just
happening. So he started a blog,

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and you know, he got in
walking the streets of the New York Madison

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Avenue, Park Avenue, that the
West Village, Harlem. You know,

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it's all day long, this you
know, it doesn't stop, yea.

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And so he said, now what
do I do with all this? And

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so he started doing a couple of
videos and then he met Lina Pleo Plaite.

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She was a Barisa and she said, I want to work with you

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and she said, I'm a video
artist and they were both in their twenties.

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Yeah, so they hooked up and
said, okay, we'll try it.

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We'll do a couple of videos of
the women and see where that goes.

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And so Lena came over to my
house and she's from Lithuania. My

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father was from Lithuania, so I
said, okay, I'll be your Lithuanian

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mother in New York. So we
did videos, and the videos took off,

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and that's when they decided, Okay, we're gonna go the next step

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and do a film. And so
Lena was the cinematographer and the editor and

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the film is still out there playing. And in fact, we just just

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two weeks ago did a piece on
The Today Show about the band style.

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Ari flew in special and three of
us women did our stick. How great

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is that? And ten us maybe
in closing about the ABC system, Yeah,

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I think that's so powerful in terms
of like a key takeaway for our

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listeners to kind of incorporate into their
own lives. Well, when I started

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back in the sixties building forms for
the body, I needed to come up

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with the way that I could explain
them. And so ABC to me was

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assembling, building and constructing, using
texture and color and using the body as

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an armature upon which to build these
forms because they you know, they weren't

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going to be sewn or whatever.
They were constructed and I was building.

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And so today I still used my
ABC's even when I get dressed. What

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am I applying on my body?
And how am I building it? And

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how am I constructing it? And
it's just very simple to you know.

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And when I get up in the
morning, it's like a morning meditation.

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It's who am I today? How
do I feel? And how do I

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want to express myself? And then
it's just intuitive how I just open the

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closet and pull things or I get
a vision and I just pull it together

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and that's it. I love that. That's a wonderful thought to leave our

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distance with a morning meditation date out
of BBC. Yeah, Debor, thank

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you so much for joining us today. You're very welcome, my pleasure.

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Thanks for listening. Please subscribe wherever
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Find your ideal coach at www dot
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