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What is krak Alakin fellow Thermo nuclear
A efforts. I am Dan fa Valley,

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joined by my certified fantabulous co host
Grant Hughes. Four Part two of

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our three quarter season awards check in, where we have Rookie of the Year,

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sixth Man of the Year, Defensive
Player of the Year, and hopefully

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we won't go too long cause we
have all NBA, All Defense and all

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rookie teams to get to as well. I hope this doesn't become a three

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part podcast, but it's Grant and
I so you can never sort of count

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count that out. And if you
have not checked out our first part where

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we did MVP Executive the Year,
Coach of the Year, most Improved Player,

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which was a doozy. I mean, the MVP discussion was long,

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but we named like eighty players when
it came to the most improved discussion,

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So go check that out. Grant, though, as we record this and

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very quickly, stats that we mentioned
all locked as of March first. This

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is going up on Monday, but
everything we're mentioning statistically locked as of March

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first. We also recognize a lot
of these races. We will do it

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at the end of the Year could
change. I also am to make it

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different. I'm gonna try and we
might crowdsource it if you join our discord.

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I'll put out to our discord members
to go and make their own votes

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and we'll see, like what the
listeners collectively, who the listeners collectively pick.

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Might be fun for these awards,
but it's even bigger day because after

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we record this, Grant is going
to go win the CrossFit Open on March

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for March first that that segment,
so he is here a few hours before

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he just goes and absolutely kills it. Grant, how are you doing,

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I'm one. I'm inspired by your
confidence. That's really probably That's how I'm

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doing mostly you say when I say
complete, hopefully, And it's the scale

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division, so anybody that knows anything
is going to be less impressed if I

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do well in this division. I
might do performance division on Monday. We'll

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see, so we'll report back at
some point. But by the time you

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hear this, though, I will
have either succeeded or failed or done something

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in between. And that's kind of
how I'm approaching all these awards and all

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NBA and all Rookie and all defensive
We might succeed or fail, but probably

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fall somewhere in between. Because man, like some of this was just like

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agonizing, right, like the just
there's you said, like, oh,

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we mentioned eighty players, Like I
feel like I'm just giving participation trophies to

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like half of the league on a
lot of this, because there's just there's

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guys you can't not mention, even
if you know there's no way they're going

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to be on your first team or
your second team, but like you can't

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not say the name just because they
deserve it. You don't want, like

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any fan base to feel like we
have an agenda against them. So it's

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like if some and so doesn't make
your all NBA team or your all defense

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team, you don't want it to
be a situation like that's a between the

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ears thing. I think there are
some podcasters, many of which are just

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going to be more successful than us
because they don't do this, who don't

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care about leaving off or pissing off
people. But it's like, no,

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I need to mention. Like it
was funny because someone on Twitter mentioned our

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long most improved player list, and
so they went like the players three hundred,

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like they did a meme. Oh
players three hundred and fifty five and

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had Nause, Marshall, so and
so and Kelly Olinok. I was like,

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you know, you laugh, but
we mentioned one of these players on

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the podcast Yesserday and it was so
it was Kelly Olinic. Yeah, I'm

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with you on that was any of
these the remaining three awards, I think,

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like, were any of them just
easy? Like what was the easiest

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one for you to do? Oh? Man? Well, I would say

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I think maybe like my All NBA
second Team that's not an award, but

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like the hard part was the first
team and like specifically the fifth guy,

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which if you listened to our MVP, we kind of spoiled it. But

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I felt good about the second teamers, like really good. But other than

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that, I mean, well,
I think Rookie of the Year got a

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little easier for me over the last
several days. But I mean even that

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is like not a done deal,
right, Like no, because I think

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people forget that's a full season award
and I'd like to let's say that one

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for a last Where do you want
to go to start off? And if

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anyone wants to hear the criteria and
methodology in full, we both went on

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like two minute long monologue in the
first part. Go check that out.

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I promise you. We've watched we've
we've looked at numbers, we've listened to

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other people, read other people.
And just because we're not mentioning every nook

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and cranny of a player's case or
not a case, it doesn't mean that

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we didn't factor it in. It
doesn't mean that we've been inconsistent. We've

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probably been I'm sure I've been inconsistent
with my logic, but like it's hard.

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We're trying to button this up to
where hey, it's only a two

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hour podcast instead of an eight hour
but we're all doing our best out here.

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So we have Defensive Player of the
Year, Rookie of the Year,

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and six Man are like individual ones
that we haven't done yet. Right,

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let's start. Let's start with six
Man terrified. All right, Yeah,

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this was one. Like the only
thing I'm sure about is that the criteria

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for this award are like stupid and
don't make sense and it's almost always wrong,

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Like you know, it's like the
ya points off the bench thing,

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which, having said that, we're
probably mostly just going to talk about guys

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that score a lot of points.
Off the bench, so it's kind of

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unavoidable. Even if that feels why
I have, I cannot wait to disprove

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that theory. Good good. I
like that a lot. Okay, So

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I have a guess where you're gonna
go with your number one. So I'll

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just give you mine here. Mine
is Malik Monk for six Man of the

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Year. He is very much like
a ya points guy, just but also

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underrated playmaker. And the key for
me, and this is the argument I

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made when I did the write up
for br is that, like, there's

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certain types of six men that come
in halfway through the first quarter, play

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against backups, play a lot of
the second quarter, and maybe you don't

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see him that much in the second
half. That's not really Malik Monk.

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He has he averages more fourth quarter
minutes than any other reserve. So the

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Kings put him out there. They
view him as one of their five best

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guys. He plays, you know, the most meaningful minutes and has a

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significant role in those minutes, so
you know, fifteen basically a fifteen to

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five guy, decent shooting splits.
But I think the differentiator for me with

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this award is that the Kings don't
play him like your typical six man,

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Like he is out there in high
leverage minutes, and so that kind of

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just decided it for me. You
know, has a bunch of you know,

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he rates among like a lot of
starters in terms of like clutch points

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and fourth quarter points and fourth quarter
minutes and like that kind of stuff and

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even assists. So that sort of
set him up to it made it a

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little bit like sort of cognitively clearer
for me because he just seemed a little

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different than some of the other guys
we're going to consider. I don't know

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that I'd say, like, oh, he's objectively a better player than all

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these guys, but like the role
that he's in is different. So that's

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kind of my thinking on having him
be my number one there. Yeah,

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so I considered him at number one
and he is my number two. And

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I think the look you said,
it's the a points. I think he's

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kind of improved his directionality as a
score. It's the passing from that made

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it really and the fact that oh
he could close for this team that made

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this decision really difficult with who to
pick number one over him. I ultimately

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went, did you want to take
a guess? Is it nasrid? Yes,

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it's nasrid for me, and he's
not yay points and he's not gonna

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close if things are going right for
Minnesota. But when you look at his

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value and your ability to he just
worked with either big. The numbers are

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just there with Karl, Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert, doesn't matter. Maybe

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you wish that he could plays the
loan big a little bit more, they

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won don't really have the time available
for that to happen. And two,

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I think he has improved his rim
protection this year. I think what we've

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also seen is that he's really good. It's not just switchable, it's like

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actually able to stay in front or
move laterally against guys on the perimeter.

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And that's a huge skill if you
won want to run with duel bigs.

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And two just in general to look
at a guy whether you know, even

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if you considered him your center,
but the fact that he's able to guard

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on the perimeter so well, that
coupled with the three point shooting this year.

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And then also so he still has
that floor game, Like the efficiency

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inside the arc has kind of declined, but a lot of that has to

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do with the fact that this isn't
someone who's just a play finisher in those

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situations. The Timberwolves are working with
finite space in the half court most of

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the time because of the lineups they
run out there with the dual bigs,

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but just also some of their you
know, some of their wing shooters have

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just been disappointing this year, or
they're just considered non shooters to begin with,

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and so to have somebody who can
kind of work the crevices and have

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the handle necessary to take guys off
off the dribble if he needs to attack

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from a close out situation or even
just from a stand still go out a

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defender. His game is more expansive, and I think that the impact he

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has on the Wolves, it belies
like or it needs to transcend the volume

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that we're see because yeah, there
are gonna be guys that have more minutes

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because Karl Anthony Towns already to go
better in front of him. And if

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you want to say, well,
like six man, I want someone who

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I know is going to close like
even fifty percent of the time for this

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team, I kind of get that. But from just what I've watched,

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if NAS read this year, he
feels like he has been, bar none,

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the most impactful reserve to me,
and I think the actually the only

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player that gave me pause was Malik
Monk. And there are other guys who

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are gonna show up on me,
like just talk about this, but Monk

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was the and I might pick Monk
by the end of the year at this

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rate, depending on how the season
just ends. But this was this was

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one of the closer like one two's
for me for sure. Yeah, I

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got Nasrid at three on mine.
My number two though, is Norm Powell.

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And I think a lot of people
will be surprised that we have not

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said Tim Hardaway Junior yet He's kind
of in my worth dimensions because I think

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I could be mistaken. I haven't
looked today, but I think Hardaway is

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the betting favorite, right or maybe
it's Monk, but Hardaway had that title

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for is now the betting favorite,
and I had him three by the way,

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So I'm just gonna throw that up
there so that you could vamp.

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Okay, Yeah, no, so
it's it's the a points thing. But

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also like Powell is like far and
away the most I guess the other guy

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that we should probably mention, I
don't know where he is on yours in

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addition to Hardaway, who I have
I'm gonna put hard Away fifth. I

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guess h is Bogdan Bogdanovic at four. Bogdanovic is a little more of the

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score facilitate makeup than like say Hardaway
and Powell, for example, you know,

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maybe even better than that better at
that stuff van Monk if not necessarily

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this year. But Powell's distinguishing feature
is just efficiency, Like he's sixty three

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to one true shooting, and just
to compare that, Hardaway is at fifty

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five six, which I'm pretty sure
is a tick below the league average in

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true shooting percentage this season, and
Bogdanovich is fifty six to six. Powell

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has just been, like, I
mean, an unbelievable three point shooter,

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can still slash call him one dimensional, I guess, like he's not out

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there to pass the ball. Like
his assist rates are like laughably lower than

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you know, even Hardaways for example, but like and way below Bogdanovic and

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way below Monk. But Powell is
just like he's the surest bucket of any

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of those guys. And you might
say, like, you know, with

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the exception of like well, Luca
is gonna set up hard Away for easy

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shots like Powell has hardened doing that. I'm just like, I'm not gonna

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care that much about like how these
guys are scoring. You know, they're

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not always playing with starters. So
Powell's efficiency just does it for me.

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That's why I had him there.
I think there's definitely an argument for Reid

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to be above him or even Monk, but I can't get there putting hard

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Away or Bogdanovic. And I'm not
gonna go way deep on my ballot because

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we're gonna need to finish this in
under seven hours. So I think,

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what do you think about that?
Is that the case for Powell for you

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too, is just the efficiency.
It's the efficiency, but it's also like

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he gives the Clippers two things that
I think they desperately need. Is that

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ability to give you rim pressure with
the ball in his hands or just right

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off the catch. And then two, it's hard to thrive within an ecosystem

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where you know, hey, I
might be the fifth option in most of

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these lineups just because I know I'm
gonna be the fourth if I like to

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have someone who can play with all
the stars or two of the stars,

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and in so seamlessly. That's a
really big deal that I think people kind

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of underrate sometimes. And so if
you're gonna do that and then have like

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the volume scoring with the efficiency,
that's sort of a no brainer case.

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And so like he, I think
you could make a case through yes,

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if any of these three, my
three players won the award, I can't

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get there were Bob down Madonovic.
I had him fifth, but it's just

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like some of the noise there defensively. Maybe that's because he's kind of shifted

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when the Hawks were at full strength, Like he's been nudged into defensive spots

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that he really shouldn't be. But
I like he's a worthwhile candidate as well.

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My fourth, I like, I
think, I know I said that

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nas reading the league Monk were super
close, Like it wouldn't shock me if

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Norman Palell just not came out of
left field but won this award this season,

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Like giving what happens during the closing
stretch, even though the Clippers are

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struggling right now, do you want
to know who my fourth is? It's

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a mystery because I thought we would
have like at least a similar five.

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I'm looking for Joe Baby if he
could just play more. If the Thunder

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were playing him more, I might
have him winning the award just because per

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minute, I think he's been no
worse than like the second most impactful reserve,

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and there are gonna be times like
he could close because like Gideon Dort,

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aren't givens against certain matchups. But
I just averaging under twenty minutes a

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game for the year, I can't
get there. It's just too that's like

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to you know, Naserita, I
think is at what twenty one point two

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or whatever it is, Uh so
that was enough. But like for me,

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I just looked at that number and
it's not just the shooting. Yeah,

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okay, forty three and a half
percent from deep is great, But

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like, this is someone who will
cut to the basket. He can put

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the ball on the floor a little
bit, and I think aside from just

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the movement he gives you on the
offensive end, knowing where to be in

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the right spots, knowing what to
do in transition, this is someone who

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works his ass off defensively. And
it's a lot easier to be complimentary of

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a player's defense and effort when like
they get to play with Chet and Jay

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Dub and lou Dort and even Shay
this year, but like, holy crap,

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Isaiah and Joe is going to be
more physical on the defensive end,

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then he gets a lot of credit. And so I find myself not wishing

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because I don't necessarily care who wins
these awards. Like I watch him and

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I'm just like, if he had
a bigger role, And I think you

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could make the case that he should
have a bigger role when you see how

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on even one Josh Giddy's been specifically, and then lou Dort, one of

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the best defenders in the game,
been taking better shots lately, but there's

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like peaks and plunges to the way
he plays at both ends, and you

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don't have that hit or miss element
with Isaiah Joe. And so this is

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I lament that he's not higher just
because I think he has been that good.

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00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,759
Yeah, that's fair. Would you
like you wanted to run through deep

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cuts? Yeah, I have another
five games on mind, you only just

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paste him in there, go for
it. So one of these guys I

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think is going to be ineligible.
And also I didn't include a manual quickly

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because he should be ineligible by the
end of the year, and it's just

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how does the case get made,
like for what he was doing with the

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Knicks. But another one who falls
under that umbrella and I did include him,

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was I wonder where pods would end
up here for me if he wasn't

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a starter. Now it ultimately doesn't, but I included him in my top

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ten. Caroslvert. He's been very
integral to not just helping the Cavs float

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some of the bench lineups, but
he he helps them play with pace.

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When you look at how he's injected
them with just a stable presence in transition

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as a ball handler. You already
made the case for Tim Hardaway Junior Jordan

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Clarkson, I think has improved a
lot as a pastor. I just the

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00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:22,840
efficiency isn't there. And then I
don't know what to do with the heat

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00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:26,639
because it's like Jaime Hawkes or Duncan
Robinson might not qualify for this award,

247
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like depending on how this season closes
out, but I just wanted to shout

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them out because those are guys that
do qualify when you look at how much

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they've come off the bench this year
so far, and they've both just been

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really good. Yeah, I would
echo basically everyone you have there. Clarkson

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00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,519
and Lavert were kind of my next
two. Those are pretty classic six man

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00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:50,399
guys, just to get the names
out there so we can cover some bases.

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I think TJ. McConnell second most
assists among reserves, and just the

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way that he like a lot of
the on off numbers don't love him.

255
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,600
Part of that's because Halbert is so
good that it like juices the net rating

256
00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:03,840
in a way that doesn't help McConnell. But he plays with such pace,

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like he's so good at those like
weird little eight foot shots, and he

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00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,440
does like the the Nash dribble under
the bat like he brings a lot to

259
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,960
the pacers. He like really fits
how they play like he he kind of

260
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plays this way anyway, But the
hundred miles an hour thing works for Indiana.

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00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,840
Trying to think, who else you
said, LeVert Al Horford probably belong

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00:16:22,919 --> 00:16:26,720
here, Walker Kessler. It's weird
that he's coming off the bench, but

263
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he's got by far. He's got
like twice as many blocks among bench players

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00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:33,200
as the second highest guy. Like
disappointing year for him, but maybe a

265
00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:37,320
mentioned the minutes are so low.
Well, I'm going to talk about this

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00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,759
guy later too. Jonathan Isaac has
been so goddamn good in like no playing

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00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:45,720
time at all. I just want
his name on there. One of the

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best defenders like in the league,
full stop when he's on the floor.

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So just just to get a different
type of guy out there, let's let's

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let's do that. Uh, that's
as far as I think we need to

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go. I'm sure we'll offend somebody
by not mentioning them, but that's pretty

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thorough. Yeah, And like these
weren't again after our top five. Basically

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they're not rankings, as I was, just including the names that the list

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wasn't too long next to each other
in grants. But that's a I do

275
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expect for what it's worth. I
do expect Malik Monk to win the award

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00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:17,440
if I had to be Yeah,
I think that's probably if I didn't have

277
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to bet on it, he would
be the betting favorite, and in fact

278
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,599
he is. So that's child.
Yeah, So you want to do lead

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00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,160
us into Defensive Player of the Year, Okay, let's go to let me

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00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,200
pull that up here. I mean, it feels like a cop out,

281
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,960
but I just don't think that's the
right way to think about it. He's

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00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,400
the most important defensive player on a
team whose defense is like, I mean,

283
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the distance last I checked between the
Timberwolves and the second best defense was

284
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,200
about the same as the difference between
second and like eighth or ninth. So

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00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,559
Rudy Gobert is won for me.
There are a lot of other good defensive

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00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:56,720
players on the Timberwolves, at least
one of them. I think we'll probably

287
00:17:56,759 --> 00:18:02,039
mention and certainly we'll mention it and
all defensive teams, but one of he's

288
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:06,519
gonna make one of mine. So
I just like, if you have another

289
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:08,039
guy up there, I would love
to hear the case because go Beart is

290
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,759
just like elite rim defense. He's
doing better guarding in space, and he's

291
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just the most important guy on the
best defense in the league, and it's

292
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the best defense by a mile.
So that's the sort of nutshell case for

293
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,200
him. Do you know what's interesting, though, So Rudy Gobert is my

294
00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:23,279
defensive player of the Year, and
it's just it's really not that close.

295
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,240
I would say, do you know
what's interesting to me is like how much

296
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,839
the defense of metrics just don't seem
to love him this year. And I

297
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,640
do wonder how much of that is
just like when you look at some of

298
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,400
the counting stats that we know a
lot of these other metrics or a lot

299
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,920
of these catch all or kitchen sak
metrics sort of value. It's okay,

300
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:47,200
well you've seen his defensive rebounding rate
dip just a little bit. But then

301
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,880
I look and it's like, all
right, is Stee Ray is down but

302
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,160
the block rate is up. So
I just don't understand why some of these

303
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,799
metrics like don't love him, like
the defense of ones, even which we

304
00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:02,039
recognize aren't perfect. I will say
what he's been just absolutely crazy with so

305
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:08,359
opponents are shooting fourteen point four points
worse at the rim than expected against him.

306
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,559
That's per b Ball Index. That
is the second highest among any player

307
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:15,680
who has logged one thousand minutes.
And I think you could probably even lower

308
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,920
the threshold and need still be second. But I just used a thousand only

309
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,599
Walker Kessler is in front of him. To your point about Walker Kesler maybe

310
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,359
needing some six Man of the Year
love, that is just when you look

311
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:32,119
at how many shots he's contesting,
that's pretty bonkers. And I think what's

312
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,599
bigger for me is look at the
way he's moving this year like, and

313
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,119
I know part of it is he
has guys on the perimeter and Jaden McDaniels

314
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,160
and Ni Kail, Alexander Walker,
even Anthony Edwards that he never really had

315
00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:45,680
in Utah. But just like he
is able to move in space. And

316
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:51,640
there are still questions about how this
dual big setup will sustain in the playoffs.

317
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,960
But I'm worried about their offense.
I'm just I have not that have

318
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,839
no notes about there, even like
I don't have any issue. I don't

319
00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:00,039
care who he's going up against,
whether it's the Clippers, whether it's the

320
00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:04,079
Nuggets, whatever team, Like I
think the Wolves's defense is going to sustain

321
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:11,119
and Rudy Gobert is just the driving
force behind why. And I can't say

322
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,680
enough it's not just I think a
lot of it in years past has been

323
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,559
built around his rim protection. I
think this is the most would be comprehensive

324
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,079
or versatile defensive Player of the Year
case that he's ever had. I think

325
00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:26,400
that's fair. I mean, like
it does the like I take your point

326
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,559
and I mentioned it in my write
up and I think I said it.

327
00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:33,599
But the his what appears to be
a bizarre like you know, kind of

328
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,960
late career improvement in an area that
you wouldn't expect a big guy to get

329
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,480
better at, which is moving in
space is a big deal. It's still

330
00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:45,559
like the deterrent effect is just so
real. Like, you know, opponents

331
00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:48,759
take about six percent fewer shots at
the rim when he's in the game.

332
00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:52,759
That's an elite figure. He's allowing
about forty eight percent conversion rate inside six

333
00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:56,759
feet when he's the primary defender.
That's the best of anybody that is a

334
00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:00,680
high volume rim defender. So like
that's all just that's where starts. And

335
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,559
then the fact that it now branches
out, it's like beyond you know,

336
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,640
the charge circle, say, is
like just such a huge deal. I

337
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,079
am fascinated who your number two is? Uh, Like, you know,

338
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,079
I could tell you who I took
out of that. So my two,

339
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,640
three, four, five is just
what I agonize over because that's the spots

340
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,480
we're ranking. Even though the ballot
only goes three deep. For this,

341
00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:26,319
I will say he is no longer
number two. I did have him there.

342
00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:29,759
I oltimately flipped and maybe I'll come
back. I had Derek White number

343
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:32,680
two at first, but I ultimately
think he's the type of guy, you

344
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,359
know where we talked about Giannis is
sort of the rover. It's like,

345
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,119
well, what if you took someone
who could be this rover and this play

346
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,559
under when he's defending the second best
player or the third best player on the

347
00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:44,880
other team. But also if you
want him to go check the best player

348
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,440
on the other team, yeah,
he'll do that. The reason he doesn't

349
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:48,759
on a lot of on a lot
of I don't want to say nights,

350
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:53,519
but in primary line's because Drew Holliday
exists and I oltenately didn't know how to

351
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,400
wait that, and so I ended
up nudging two more players in front of

352
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,960
him. And I'm curious what you
think about this. I have at number

353
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,960
two bam Adebayo okay, and at
number guy, why does why am I

354
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:10,759
like? Do we not have a
number one? We'll look at that.

355
00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:14,200
I screwed up the I didn't have
a saw scrup so bam Ade Bio at

356
00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:19,799
number two, and I have Victor
Webinam at number three. The do you

357
00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:23,160
want to go like, all right, is there any overlap here that Wemby

358
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,880
is two for me? Oh?
Okay, I feel a lot better now.

359
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,559
Yeah. I think here's the one
thing I just want to note because

360
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:33,000
people are before and I'll let you
lead the case. People are gonna say

361
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:36,720
loose Spurs are like a bottom five
defensive team. The Spurs are in the

362
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,039
sixty eight percent tile of defensive efficiency
with Wemby on the court. So it's

363
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,960
not just the highlights you're seeing the
fact that he's leading that team to that

364
00:22:47,079 --> 00:22:49,279
type of Like, I know they
have some guys in Devin Vessel and Jeremy

365
00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:53,200
soehen and like they have guys who
can Wenby is making the Spurs a borderline

366
00:22:53,240 --> 00:23:00,200
elite defensive team despite not having the
personnel to do so. This guy,

367
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,319
I like, so estimated plus minus
kind of corrects for some of that stuff,

368
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,960
right, Like that's the idea behind
it. Is it count It accounts

369
00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:11,960
for like who's out on the floor
with you and against you. Wemby is

370
00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:17,720
a ninety eighth percentile defensive estimated plus
minus guy. Uh, that's good.

371
00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:19,880
It's hard to be a lot higher
than that. He's about to be the

372
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,480
fourth player in the last twenty years
to average three blocks in a Steel and

373
00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:29,519
then like forget the stats, just
like watch you know that we're recording this

374
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,119
Friday. Chet Holmgren you know,
create space on a step back around the

375
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:38,839
elbow and Wemby just inhales it like
there's there's we don't yet we've never seen

376
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,720
a guy shrink the floor as the
term that everybody talks about, but like

377
00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:48,079
affect shooters everywhere, like and that's
that's like in terms of field goal percentage

378
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:52,279
and just making it so they're like
if chet Holmgren can't hit a step back

379
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,480
with space over wembin Yama, like
guess what, no one should ever even

380
00:23:56,599 --> 00:24:00,039
try to shoot that shot. So
like we're at we're at a point now

381
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:06,200
where wehm Benyama's deterrent ability is like
has the potential and might already be honestly,

382
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:08,720
like the greatest we've ever seen,
like just in terms of guys not

383
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:12,640
trying stuff because there's no hope.
So I don't know what the metric's gonna

384
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,559
be for that. At some point, someone much smarter than me will figure

385
00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:19,599
out, like how to measure the
shots not taken because when Benyama is on

386
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,960
the floor, you know, and
you can look at like oh rim attempt

387
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,200
frequency and whatever, but like just
as an individual presence, like I just

388
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,720
don't think there's anybody even Gobert.
I don't think Gobert effects plays in a

389
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:36,720
variety of ways like wem Binyama can
so. And this is just the beginning,

390
00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:38,440
Like we're gonna gush over him when
we talk about all rookie and all

391
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,680
these other categories. So like I
don't I couldn't get wem Binyama to first,

392
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,880
you know, to win Defensive Player
of the Year. I don't think

393
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,160
there's a momentum for that yet,
but like if he doesn't win the next

394
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,559
three to five of these in a
row, like I'm gonna be pretty surprised.

395
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,799
Like That's That's where I'm at now. The other thing that impresses me

396
00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:00,759
about him too, is like it's
not just the shot deterrence or contests,

397
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,920
but like he's also playing the pass
or other players that like he can defend

398
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,519
it like every single player that's involved
in an action at once, and so

399
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:11,640
like you're watching him if if you
see him going up against pick and rolls

400
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,039
or handoffs, like he's defending,
like he's accounting for everyone at the same

401
00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:19,079
time, no matter where he is
on the floor. And I think that's

402
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:22,880
what kind of swung it for me
to put him this high as well.

403
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,279
Is that. Okay, it's not
just founded around his rim protection or even

404
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,559
like shot in the turns. It's
the fact that he can account for everything.

405
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,000
And yeah, part of that's just
his physical tools one. I mean,

406
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,119
that's part of everyone's case, is
their physical Like that's why big men

407
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,920
dominate DPOY in the first place,
is because they're so huge. And then

408
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,279
just the other thing is like,
no, that's a pretty fucking wild IQ

409
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,680
to have as a rookie. Now, I don't know how to wait that

410
00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:48,599
against like, well, there are
other players with IQ's but like he already

411
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,720
has like a defensive Player of the
Year IQ. Yeah, and I have

412
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:56,160
Bamana Bayo ahead of him and a
number two ultimately because Bamda Bio think has

413
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,039
improved his sort of i'll call it
like traditional rimp protect a lot. That's

414
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,960
never been his strong suit. His
strong suit is you want him to defend

415
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,880
an isolation? Do you need him
to switch? Do you need him to

416
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,799
play zone? He can. I
think he's probably the most I mean,

417
00:26:10,839 --> 00:26:14,720
maybe this isn't true, like Wenby
now exists, but he wears he can

418
00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:18,759
wear more hats defensively than perhaps anyone
in the league except for Wemby. At

419
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:22,880
this point, and that's a really
big deal. Miami is top ten in

420
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,200
defensive rating and they can be locked
down when Bam is on the court,

421
00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:32,559
and I just I'm kind of not
that I'm shocked, but it makes me

422
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,200
wonder, like, Okay, if
Rudy Gobert is playing like this, Wemby's

423
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,799
waiting in the waynes or right there
already, and we have Chet Holmgren to

424
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:41,960
account for. It feels like the
Defensive Player of the Year might never happen

425
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,759
for bam Adebayo and we could look
back on it and say he's not going

426
00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:48,880
to be the same level of iconic
player. But the fact that Tim Duncan

427
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,920
kind of never won a defensive Player
of the Year award feels egregious just given

428
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,559
how good Bam is on defense,
especially when you look at I know this

429
00:26:56,599 --> 00:27:00,200
isn't part of it, but like
we value what happens in the playoff Austin,

430
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,960
we're supposed to scale it forward here
and the fact that like it still

431
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,680
just doesn't move nothing doesn't move the
needle for him, but it hasn't pushed

432
00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:08,680
him over the top. I just
wonder if we'll look back should he not

433
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,440
win a defensive Player of the Year
and be like, oh, that feels

434
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,920
like a mistake. Yeah. I
think Bam not ever being like a number

435
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,160
one option offensively and also not being
likely to win Defensive Player of the Year

436
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,000
is going to make him go down
as one of the like most easily forgotten

437
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:27,160
really great players of this era,
because like a lot of what makes him

438
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,440
great is kind of subtle. Like, you know, there's not a lot

439
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,799
of casual fans that are like,
god, he's so good on switches.

440
00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:34,799
Remember that time he shut down Terry's
Haliburton for like a whole fourth quarter.

441
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,000
Like that's just an under the radar
thing. Bam is four for me.

442
00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:42,480
I had Anthony Davis at third on
my ballot. Just man, he is.

443
00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:48,279
He is sixth online and I just, god, please go ahead.

444
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,240
I don't reagonize over that. It's
well, there's from here down. It's

445
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:56,680
like you could swap you know,
fifteen different players. I think Davis is

446
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,559
just he remains like such an imposing
That's the word that comes of mind to

447
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:07,319
me. Force inside, great defensive
rebounder, shop blocker, just still you

448
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:11,000
know, super long affects shots like
in the upper paint, you know,

449
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,319
in the pick and roll he can
drop deeper than most guys can and still

450
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,559
quickly recover to you know, turn
bad shots into terrible shots if guys try

451
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:23,079
to take up that space and shoot
floaters or whatever. He affects every driver

452
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,279
that is in the you know,
vicinity of the basket. And still like,

453
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:30,240
I know Bam is better at this, but you're not, like you're

454
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,559
not hunting Davis on a switch ever, right, Like you're not You're not

455
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,359
trying to get him out onto you
know, the number of times that he's

456
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,599
just stimied Steph Curry like trying to
beat him on you know, an isolation

457
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,440
play. I mean, go back
to the postseason earlier this year several times,

458
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,880
Like, Davis is still not someone
you want any part of in an

459
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,039
isolation set, and he's an awesomer
and protector, so like I just love

460
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:56,079
him. There, Bam is four
for me, and then we can just

461
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,400
you know, start doing the participation
trophy thing because there's a million guys after

462
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,839
that. So yeah, I have
Derek White four. And I'll just say,

463
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,279
I mean, like, this is
someone who's under six y five and

464
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:10,519
has a three percent block rate,
which is just the fact that he's able

465
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:14,079
to disrupt plays from anywhere, whether
he's on the ball, off the ball,

466
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,079
is incredible to me, and he
has the ability to take on a

467
00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:19,599
tougher individual workload. The Celtics just
kind of aren't built, and I guess

468
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:23,240
I'm penalizing him for it a little
bit. And I tend to be higher

469
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:27,359
on what perimeter defenders do than a
lot of others. I picked mckal bridges

470
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:30,400
was it two years ago as my
defensive player of the Year, because I'd

471
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,519
haven't Mobley last year, so maybe
the year before. And I recognize that

472
00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:37,079
guys at the RIM have a better
chance of maybe impacting the game. Derek

473
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:40,599
White can impact the game at the
RIM. I just I don't like he'll

474
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,720
impact it in transition to impact it
in isolation watching him as a joy number

475
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,440
five. So the only guy I
had ahead of Anthony Day other guy that

476
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,039
Jalen Suggs, I just monster.
I did not check he will is he

477
00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:56,359
He's not going to miss the games
threshold, right, I don't have him

478
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,039
in my in my missing it No, yeah, fifty five games. I

479
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:00,799
want to make sure. I was
like, I don't think he's been injured

480
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:04,079
this year, But I'm always a
little bit worried. He is just like

481
00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:10,799
at like good luck trying to like
do anything with Jalen Suggs on the court.

482
00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:12,599
It's, Oh, you're not gonna
get by him. You can't screen

483
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,079
him, you can't you can't throw
an entry pass, you can't throw a

484
00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:18,480
cross court pass, you can't even
like run a dribble. Like Jalen Suggs

485
00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:23,000
is just like everywhere all at once. It feels like he's like a magnet

486
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:30,079
to the ball without like taking these
wild gambles to me. And so he

487
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:33,880
has a case. Honestly, like
I think if anyone picked any of these

488
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,559
five to win defensive players, and
I'll even say six just because of what

489
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,000
Davis does, and I will say
the on off splits are not in favor

490
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:42,920
of Davis. You just have to
look at the personnel other than Lebron he's

491
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,039
played a lot with in some of
those offense first lineups, even just like

492
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:51,519
the lineups in general, the Lakers
aren't built to defend outside of Anthony Davis.

493
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:55,359
And I almost feel bad not having
him higher because he has been He's

494
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,079
two thousand plus minutes this year,
like he has been available and played through

495
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,680
stuff, so he's been great.
But I think, like that's just I

496
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,279
think I'd probably like pretty bullish on
this being my top six. But we

497
00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:11,039
can get to like the you know, if you want to go through your

498
00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:15,200
list of others that you had.
I wonder if maybe we shouldn't because we're

499
00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:19,759
just gonna give our all defensive teams
away because I'm just gonna go down my

500
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:22,279
list. I mean, I can
leave it at my top three and then

501
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,559
like I'll give you. I can
give you a couple more if you want

502
00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:27,640
to just have these spreadsheets filled out. But I wonder if maybe we should

503
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,720
wait so we don't just step on
the all defensive discussion or do we even

504
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,240
care about that? Maybe we just
highlight these guys, Now what do you

505
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,160
think? I think at this point, it's just like maybe that will streamline

506
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,839
the all defensive scussion a bit,
all right, So like this is so

507
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:45,079
Suggs, Like I agonized over Suggs
because I don't know what to do with

508
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:52,599
him versus White versus Caruso versus Chris
Dunn in a lower minute role, versus

509
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:56,880
even like Dennis Smith Junior. Like
there's like a half dozen really awesome point

510
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,519
of attack like smallish guards and White
is bigger than that, but like in

511
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:02,839
that bucket. So I think I'll
probably go, where are you putting for

512
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,920
me there? Because I haven't even
I was just gonna list all the names

513
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,759
you said before I forgot them.
Yeah, go for it. So yeah.

514
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,559
Also, if we're just gonna talk
about like guys that I had really

515
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,279
high up that, so I have
Caruso on my first team, I'll just

516
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:17,000
say that. And I have Jane
McDaniels also up there. We didn't we

517
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,039
haven't mentioned him yet. Yeah,
I mean Jane McDaniels certainly has a case.

518
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:24,039
I don't know that. I feel
like he was better last year,

519
00:32:24,039 --> 00:32:29,319
but the level of difficulty he shouldered
this season is speak for itself. You

520
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:32,359
said Dennis Smith Junior that that's like
a deep cut. That's a deep cut.

521
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,480
That's not I wouldn't have him on
like my top ten, Like I

522
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,839
don't think I even have him on
an all defensive team. But I just

523
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,759
like talking about all those guards that
are like I thought I was thinking about

524
00:32:42,839 --> 00:32:45,759
Chris Dunn too and was just only
wondering, like, does he have the

525
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:51,119
volume, like the playing time necessary
to use her because that's the issue that

526
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,240
I kind of run into with and
I know this year, like he's started

527
00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:57,680
a ton of games, but I
still run into that issue a little bit.

528
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,359
With Alex Caruso. I guess he's
a twenty seven point two minutes per

529
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:06,240
game, so that makes it a
little bit easier, but like he's always

530
00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:08,599
been just sort of always going to
play fifteen hundred minutes this season and the

531
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,680
answer predominantly is no, except for
last year. So he's someone I've always

532
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,400
struggled with. Bam is online also, I don't I probably put him after

533
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:20,480
Davis, but you don't need to
mess too much with that. I think

534
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:22,799
that's good. There's a few names
that are high up on my list,

535
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:27,480
but we can talk about those for
all defensive I will say, so I

536
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,599
had some other names that you didn't
mention, and so I'll throw those there

537
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,720
I have. I will just put
Jayden McDaniels here because he factored in.

538
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:37,799
I did have Chris I thought about
Chris Dunn. Alex Caruso factor and these

539
00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:40,720
aren't rankings at this point, just
throwing them in the spreadsheet quietly. The

540
00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:45,240
Grizzlies have a top ten defense despite
just being blown up by injuries. Jared

541
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:50,240
Jackson Junior still belongs in this discussion
for me, and I wonder if he

542
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,200
would factor in more heavily if the
Grizzlies were more relevant. And I'm even

543
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,559
like throwing myself in there, my
kind of being too unfair with just like

544
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,200
the injuries that they've had. I
also think I mentioned a lot of peaks

545
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,559
and plunges, but like lou Dort
belongs in this Herb Jones a guy like

546
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:12,920
he's gonna factor into the to the
all defense discussions. Look, people might

547
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,760
not want to say Chet Holmgren,
like he's not really near Wemby as a

548
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,199
defender, but he absolutely is a
high level defender already as a rookie,

549
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,280
which is just I know some people
don't love this, but like, I'm

550
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,760
so excited. Just watch Chet and
Wemby go at each other for the next

551
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,199
year. It's gonna be great.
Can I give you a couple that you

552
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,159
haven't mentioned? I have so I
have two more? Okay, I Allen,

553
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,159
So I actually have three more names. It was Jared Allen and he

554
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:38,599
didn't factor in, but I just
wanted to like the defense player, but

555
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:44,440
like Kntavious Caldwell, Pope is here
too, and who is the last guy

556
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,280
I had and I have to scroll
over to the other sheet. Oh and

557
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:52,519
I also I had Dylan Brooks high
five, Dylan Brooks high fiver. Aaron

558
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:58,639
Gordon is someone that's gonna make an
all defensive team for me. Oh Asar

559
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,360
Thompson warrenton mention, I think,
and let's see, that's probably thorough enough

560
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,039
between our two yellow lists there.
Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's

561
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:09,519
like anyone egregious that we honestly,
I mean, we're way down the ballot,

562
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:14,760
you could probably throw us up there. Yeah, he gonna make it

563
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:15,880
all defensive team for you. I
can't wait to see that. That's a

564
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,760
I'm gonna spoil it right now and
say, no, he's not on one.

565
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:23,360
If we make up a third team, well, so do you know

566
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,800
who's another name I have here?
And I think I don't think again,

567
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,920
I don't think he belongs in the
deslater your discussion, but I think you'll

568
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,079
be happy that I'm Jalen Williams sure
like wing Jail Williams just been an absolute

569
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,320
monster this year. So look,
we named like that's a lot of players.

570
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,920
I think my I feel pretty good
in so far as I can feel

571
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,239
good about anything about like my my
top my top end guys. I still

572
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,519
didn't know. I think the Wenby
stuff is gonna receive a lot of pushback,

573
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:55,480
not from us necessarily or people to
us or people listening to this podcast,

574
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:59,039
but I think a lot of people
think it's gonna be oh prisoner of

575
00:35:59,039 --> 00:36:01,800
the moment thing, and it's not. Yeah, can I give you some

576
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,159
of the sub by the way,
the sub sixty five guys that are not

577
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:12,079
gonna that would be considered if not
for the rule, embiid One, Isaac

578
00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:16,800
Evan Mobley, Draymond green og An, Nanobi porzingis Nick Claxton, Like,

579
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,639
the guys that aren't gonna qualify are
so maybe not eligible. I don't think.

580
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,239
Well, I think he technically is
right now, but I think last

581
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,960
I counted he could miss like two
more games. Yeah it was too much.

582
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,519
I'm assuming that. And Dennis Smith
Junior, actually I have is gonna

583
00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:35,840
fall short of that too. So
he's the sub sixty fiver. So oh

584
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,960
oh gee. That was the other
thing. When I was looking, I

585
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,239
was like, wow, a lot. He was good in Toronto but kind

586
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,519
of turned on the jets. Yeah, when he went to New York.

587
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:46,000
It seemed like if he was he
would have made not the defensive Player of

588
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,760
the Year discussion. The I think
all defense was hard enough. He would

589
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,920
have made it a lot harder if
he if he qualified. I don't know

590
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,519
how you keep him off a team, if he had played enough at the

591
00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:58,960
level that he was showing with the
Knicks, like it's because it's just sort

592
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,800
of understood that he's you know,
he was always the guy he'd points to

593
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,559
as there's no matchup that he's not
suited for, and but he just isn't

594
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:07,960
gonna get the game. So let's
for your seventeenth player on your ballot?

595
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,519
Who do you want? You just
said, og christops, Isaac. We

596
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:14,239
have Giannis there. Who's the other
player you think needs to be Oh my

597
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:15,920
god, there I haven't even got
some my snubs either. This is stupid.

598
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,960
We have to stop. There's gonna
well we can talk. Just give

599
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,079
me one more name so that we're
even. We went, Look, we

600
00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:23,440
went seventeen deps. Well, you
put Jared Jackson on mine too, because

601
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,800
he has to be there, just
asn't mention. So there we go.

602
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,159
We talked about seventeen players. I
don't know who we exclucluded, possibly more

603
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,280
probably that we should talk about.
Yeah, and like the other thing too,

604
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,519
is just there's only ten all defense
spots. By the way, guys

605
00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:40,960
like this is you could say we
spoiled the discussion a little bit, but

606
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,400
these weren't rankings after the top three, so it gets interesting. I'm not

607
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,559
I'm not gonna lie. I'm not
looking forward to this next discussion, the

608
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:54,000
Rookie of the Year. I just
like I want to look forward to it,

609
00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:57,920
but I feel like any way we
frame it, it's gonna be deemed

610
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,599
so unbelievably toxic. Why not our
religious listeners, But I feel like it's

611
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:07,639
going to be controversial. But take
us through your Rookie of the Year pick

612
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:13,519
and logic. Yeah, I mean
I think, look, I had Chet

613
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:15,800
as Rookie of the Year probably like
a month ago, and in hindsight it

614
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,880
might have been wrong then. But
I think wemban Yama has hit another level

615
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,599
of late so it's it's wem Banyama
like and I feel great about that.

616
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,480
And that's not just like it's just
it's sort of just like, well,

617
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:31,199
yeah, among humans, Chet is
the rookie of the year, But like,

618
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:36,800
there's this extra class now that we
have to talk about because when Benyama's

619
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,280
just different. So when ban Yama
I think is a more impactful defender,

620
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,400
he's not as efficient of a scorer. We all know that Chet is like,

621
00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:50,000
you know, eighteen eight, three, three and one and he's making

622
00:38:50,039 --> 00:38:53,000
threes and like that's awesome. His
role is different. He's not asked to

623
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,199
do the things that Wem Benyama has
asked to do. And I think I

624
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,000
just still have this sense that Wem
ban Yama is like finding just sort of

625
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:06,239
like still figuring things out and is
just leveling up like by the week almost

626
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,760
and Homegren, you know, is
an almost any other year, we would

627
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,199
just be over the moon about Homegren. So Homegren's two obviously, and then

628
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:16,599
after that I sort of don't care
where we go because it's just clearly those

629
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:20,599
two guys. But it's also clearly
when Binyama at the top for me,

630
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,599
So I think it's fair to what
you said. And my prediction is Wenby's

631
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:28,519
gonna win Rookie of the Year.
It's like a minus nine hundred, I

632
00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:31,599
think get most sports books, and
I do believe that when we do this

633
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,480
exercise in a month or whatever it
is, he will be my pick.

634
00:39:36,599 --> 00:39:38,320
Chet Holmgren is my pick right now, because I think this is a full

635
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:44,119
season award, and I will get
so in Wemby's defense, though very quickly

636
00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:50,519
he has Chet beat in Lebron and
he's closing in on him in other metrics,

637
00:39:50,519 --> 00:39:55,159
like chet Holmgren ranks twenty first in
EPM Victor Wenbnyama's twenty sixth. Chet

638
00:39:55,199 --> 00:40:00,280
Holmgren ranks twentieth in value over replacement
player Wemby's nine. And so this is

639
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,880
even when you go to the season
long things and and Wemby has Chet beat

640
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,639
in defense of Lebron for people who
cares. So when you get to the

641
00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:09,119
catch all metrics, if that's what
you like to go by, no,

642
00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:13,559
it's already a discussion. So I
don't think it's by a hair now,

643
00:40:13,679 --> 00:40:16,920
what's really There are a few factors
that kind of shifted it to Chet for

644
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:21,960
now for me, and I'm just
recognized that if Wemby keeps this up,

645
00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:24,480
he will be my Rookie of the
Year, Like this is a full season

646
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:29,719
award, and so you get into
just like the efficiency and the other thing

647
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,039
that matters. By the way,
I know some people like to look at

648
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:37,719
games played, but like Chet has
Wemby beat in minutes by like two hundred

649
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,519
and fifty or something like that,
Like that's not super insubstantial. Their games

650
00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:45,000
played are of course gonna be a
lot, you know, similar fifty nine

651
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:47,719
to fifty four, so it's not
a huge difference, but they haven't beat

652
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:53,440
by two hundred plus minutes when you've
also been so much more efficient than him,

653
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,079
I mean his true shooting percentage.
I don't care what you think about

654
00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:00,440
their roles. Sixty four point three
to wemy being to fifty six point three,

655
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:07,079
that's a really big difference. And
like he has been comparably effective defensively,

656
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:12,519
and even when you start to dig
into the scoring stuff Victor Wemenyama now,

657
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:15,480
like even since they move Victor Wemenyama
to center, and if you go

658
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:19,119
back and look at just from February, but like on the season, Chet

659
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,400
has more unassisted buckets than Victor Wembenyama, Like a higher percentage of his made

660
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:28,760
buckets are coming without an assist than
Victor Wembenyama. I think that's interesting because

661
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,400
he's kind of viewed as like he
stretches the floor, he'll screen, or

662
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,719
he'll just attack in an open space
off the catch and you'll maybe get one

663
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,360
of those other like, you know, the delayed assists. I'll call them

664
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,960
so I have chat right now.
But the way that Wemby has been playing

665
00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:47,760
is just and this is something I
wanted to get into was I saw and

666
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,719
I think this is the spot to
do it. I saw it floating around

667
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,639
And this is without getting into Rookie
of the Year Wemby specifically. There was

668
00:41:54,639 --> 00:42:00,960
a question foing around on Twitter,
when or if? When when will wen

669
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,199
Be be the best player in the
NBA or Ken Victor Wembenyama be the best

670
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:07,880
player in the NBA, And like
the when stuff, it was kind of

671
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,719
meaned where it's like, what do
you mean when? As in like future

672
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:15,280
tense, but there are there was
a level of pushback that surprising where a

673
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,440
lot of people seem to truly believe
that aside from just you know, the

674
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,519
frame concerns or whatever, that's just
like, you know, I can't he's

675
00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:24,199
skinny, but he's put so much
more into his body. They just don't

676
00:42:24,199 --> 00:42:29,000
think he's ever going to be the
level of offensive player necessary to be the

677
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:32,440
best player in the league. And
I'm curious as to what you think about

678
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:37,280
Ken. I think the question,
is Ken Victor wenberyama be the best player

679
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:40,079
in the NBA at some point?
How quickly do you think it would happen?

680
00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:43,159
What could prevent him from doing it? Just what do you make of

681
00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:47,159
that entire sector of debate? I
love this because I was unaware of this

682
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,920
discussion, so I hopefully I am
coming to it without being influenced. Can

683
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,480
he be the best player in the
league? Like, of course, of

684
00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:57,679
course he can't. Like that's like, that's ridiculous that to say that he

685
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,000
can't. He cannot that that's like, you're just wrong if you say he

686
00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:06,239
cannot the the like. So,
I don't know what are the odds that

687
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,519
he has like an Embiid level of
like injury frequency. I don't know what

688
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,239
percentage you put that at. It's
it's non zero, it's real. Embiid

689
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:19,719
has at times probably been regarded as
the best player in the league. Anyway,

690
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,199
So I don't know. I don't
know how how long he How long

691
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,400
does Wenby need to hold that title? Does it need to be for a

692
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:30,519
year? Like? I think like
the the So all that aside, what

693
00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:35,280
you're really asking is, like,
so when the current like crop of the

694
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,360
guys you consider that we talked about
in MVP as the best player in the

695
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,760
league are like aged out? Is
he going to be at the top of

696
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,760
the group that is ascending now or
that is you know, you know,

697
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,199
on the younger side, like so
that means he's got to be better in

698
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,280
a couple of years than Luca Sga, like Jannis probably or you know,

699
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,239
I'm trying to I'm sure I'm forgetting
guys, but just you know, going

700
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,199
through going through the list of guys
that are not gonna you know, Lebron

701
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:07,199
will be gone, Curry will be
gone. Why, like all these guys

702
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:09,840
are gonna diminish to where you don't
talk about them that way. You got

703
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,079
to think about Tatum and Booker and
like how much better might they get over

704
00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:16,639
the next couple of years. I
think I don't know what the percentage chance

705
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,760
is absolutely when Minyama can be the
best player in the league. And I

706
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,760
think if you just if I had
to guess, he could do it as

707
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,800
soon as like his third year.
Maybe I don't know if it would happen

708
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,880
next year. That seems like wildly
ambitious, but I wouldn't rule it out

709
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,400
right, Like if he's if he
is far and away the best defensive player

710
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:38,599
in the world, which could like, I would be surprised if that weren't

711
00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:43,079
the case. Next year and he
gets a little better offensively, then you're

712
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:45,480
already talking about, well, he's
like top three or four MVP. So

713
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:50,559
and that's in his second year.
I mean that that's an optimistic outlook.

714
00:44:50,599 --> 00:44:53,360
But it's hard for me not to
be optimistic about him. I just like,

715
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,159
it's just we don't really talk about
this stuff that often, but like

716
00:44:57,199 --> 00:45:00,559
the makeup and his approach and like
his maturity and all that stuff, like

717
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,559
you're not gonna have I have no
concerns about him not having like the right

718
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:09,039
you know, off the floor stuff. You know, I don't have any

719
00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:13,480
of those worries. So yeah,
I don't. I don't know what exactly

720
00:45:13,679 --> 00:45:16,719
like the debate really drills down to, but like, yeah, he could

721
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,199
be the best player. I would
I would be surprised if he weren't in

722
00:45:20,199 --> 00:45:22,960
the conversation as soon as his third
year, that is, when did Lebron

723
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:28,480
enter that discussion. Do you think
was he there by year, because I

724
00:45:28,519 --> 00:45:31,079
mean he was kind of Kobe was
still there at that time, or at

725
00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:35,960
least people had him in that tier
of player. Lebron was certainly the best

726
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,159
player in the league by his fifth
season, that's for sure. Yeah,

727
00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:43,480
I think that's right. When was
his first like season as the best player

728
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:47,599
in the NBA, because his first
MVP came When was that two thousand and

729
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:52,679
he won MVP first and he finished
in the top ten of MVP voting during

730
00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:57,159
his rookie season. By the way, he didn't win his first MVP award

731
00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:01,119
until two thousand and nine, so
that was his sixth season. He was

732
00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:05,760
top five, he was top he
finished second in two thousand and six,

733
00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:07,719
So at age twenty one, I
think he had a case to be the

734
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,760
best player in the NBA. Feels
fair because he certainly wasn't there as a

735
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,639
sophomore. No, And I think
I think next year is when we're gonna

736
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:22,679
have to start like really really having
the I can't get there in the second

737
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,679
year, but if in this I
think the third year feels like the magic

738
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,039
number to me, if like,
if it's gonna happen, we'll have a

739
00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:32,239
really good idea by then, I
think so. But what I also wanted

740
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,800
to say here is people are undervaluing
his offense because I think of what you

741
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:43,320
look at the numbers now and they're
still a little unimpressive, but like,

742
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:45,920
he is above league average true shooting. He might even be there now,

743
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,119
but he's above league average true shooting
since the Spurs moved him to center.

744
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,159
This is staggering to me. Since
they made him their starting five. He

745
00:46:54,280 --> 00:47:00,679
is shooting forty five percent on pull
up three pointers and he has made more

746
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:04,960
pull up three pointers during this stretch
than Di'angelo Russell just as a name.

747
00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:07,519
He's made more pull up three pointers
during this stretch than Kawi Leonard. Like

748
00:47:07,639 --> 00:47:13,119
that is, that's legit, and
he's taking some tough shots. The freedom

749
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:16,599
to explore absolutely matters. But by
the way, and this shift has been

750
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,239
I feel like it's been starker of
late, but like the Spurs are running

751
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:28,639
stuff through him as a facilitator.
And so among biggs who averaged at least

752
00:47:28,639 --> 00:47:32,079
twenty five minutes per game during the
month of February, you want to guess,

753
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,679
do you want to guess how many
had a higher assist rate than Victor

754
00:47:37,679 --> 00:47:43,039
Webber Yama? I mean you'd have
like Jokic, it would be I feel

755
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:45,519
going how many? Yeah, how
many? Can you guess? So there's

756
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:50,679
Jokic, there's Sam No so okay, so I'm already blown away. Then

757
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,880
it's like he's gotta higher assistrate than
Bam. I don't know who, like

758
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:57,320
just what is he's he top five? Uh, he's top five. So

759
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,079
Bam probably doesn't make the cut here
because I I filtered it for six'

760
00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:05,400
ten and over. So, like, he has a higher assist rate than

761
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,960
Alprin Shangun, than Kevin Rant,
than Nurkic. So it's Jokich, Giannis

762
00:48:10,119 --> 00:48:15,079
Domas, and Palo Bankaro the only
bigs who averaged at least twenty five minutes

763
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:16,400
a game in the month of February
with a higher assist rate. And so,

764
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:20,320
yeah, Wemby's turnover rate can be
a little bit higher, but like,

765
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,199
you know what, fourteen percent during
that stretch. Given what they're trying

766
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:27,840
to run through him, there's an
offensive ceiling here that I really just don't

767
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,280
think people are accounting for. And
even so, let's they run a lot

768
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:36,119
more stuff through him at the elbows
and so just among players, and this

769
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,000
is, by the way, I'm
not even breaking down a segment. This

770
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:45,760
is for the entire season among everyone
who is averaging as many elbow touches per

771
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:51,000
game as Wemby. There's only four
total players including Wemby, that have an

772
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,000
assist rate from the elbow of at
least twenty with a turnover rate below five.

773
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,679
It's shang Gun, it's Jokic,
and it's Pertal and there's Wemby.

774
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:02,920
And so this is all just yes, some of it's cherry picked, but

775
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,199
like in a sistrate of twenty plus
with a turnover right below five, like

776
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,039
that fucking matters, especially when you're
getting some actual volume at the elbows.

777
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:15,639
Now, I will say he's getting
fewer elbow touches per game on the season

778
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:19,800
than Shengun perl Jokic. But like
I'm talking about on the season now,

779
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,800
Grant, this isn't adjustince when he
was moved to the five, or this

780
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:28,280
isn't just since February, like this
is the entire season. So there's another

781
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,960
And when you're even talking about him
in the context of versus chet Homegren,

782
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:37,079
that might actually be what separates him
from chet Holmgren is more than anything is

783
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:40,719
the fact that he can And again
I don't know how much of this is

784
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,079
the freedom to explore, the license
to explore, but he can create his

785
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:50,519
own shots and he's also setting teammates
up in more complicated ways or as the

786
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:54,119
hub, whereas Chet does not.
Now is that a function of Chet's role

787
00:49:54,559 --> 00:49:58,880
or lack of ability. I think
it's probably a combination of both. They're

788
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,599
never gonna need him to do that
in Oklahoma City when you look at how

789
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,960
they're built. But it's also why
you know, I'm sure you saw the

790
00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:08,320
rumors that the Spurs are ready to
make a run at Trey Young over the

791
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,280
summer, and pardon me, is
like, if you have wem beyond defense

792
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,199
and Trey's just there and he's gonna
give the level of effort that he has

793
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,639
in the past year and a half
or whatever, that'll work. And I'm

794
00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:22,199
also kind of like that will dilute
what Wemby's doing on offense, and I

795
00:50:22,199 --> 00:50:24,519
don't need to see that, because
I really do think and it's even you

796
00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:27,840
could throw this out the window and
just say, like, there's a chance

797
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,119
that he becomes a more Giannis was
the best player in the NBA at some

798
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:35,880
point without having the deepest offensive armory. I'm not getting into the he has

799
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,719
no bag, but he was never
He's been the primary initiator, but it's

800
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,960
never in ways like he needs to
get going downhill where it's Wemby can do

801
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,000
that in other ways. I'm not
saying he's better than Yannis right now.

802
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,639
I'm just saying if someone like Giannis
can get to be the best player in

803
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:54,159
the world for multiple seasons at a
time while being more of just like this

804
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:59,000
force of nature on offense and then
the best defensive player in the league,

805
00:50:59,199 --> 00:51:01,679
Victor Weben Yon can absolutely do the
same thing, especially if he's going to

806
00:51:01,679 --> 00:51:06,440
be tasked with doing I don't want
to say more complicated stuff, but just

807
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:10,679
more like have a more comprehensive offensive
package. And I think the people who

808
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,559
believe, even if they think Wemby
can be the best player, and they

809
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:17,000
don't think it can happen on the
same timeline that it did for Lebron,

810
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:21,000
just because Giannis's role, it took
him a while to get there. Same

811
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,360
with Jokic, because one I think
with both those guys, the national public

812
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,760
just took too long to catch up
to them. But the other thing was

813
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:32,320
they were brought along more gradually.
Where it's been there's been layers to Victor

814
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,280
Webenyama's role in usage this year,
but it's been very much overall baptism by

815
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,960
fire when you look at the entire
package, if you want to, like,

816
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:43,400
this is someone who could be the
best player in the NBA by I'm

817
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,280
not going to predict it next year, but kind of like when Lebron entered

818
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,679
the discussion year three and year four, he could be better than Luca,

819
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,559
He could be better than Shake Gilgris
Alexander at that point. And I think

820
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,920
that it's just people just look at
him as like, well, it's because

821
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,639
of what he's doing on defense.
It's no, there's at there's a super

822
00:51:59,679 --> 00:52:04,000
star offensive player here. And this
isn't Anthony Davis level play finishing either,

823
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,880
Like Davis has never really expanded his
game beyond the confines of being a play

824
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,400
finisher, and when he does,
with the exception of the Bubble, it

825
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,760
doesn't always go well. Like we're
already seeing Webby do a lot of stuff

826
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,239
when you look at as a facilitator
that Anthony Davis never really been tasked with

827
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:21,719
doing. At least that's anecdotal.
I didn't dig into the numbers and look

828
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:27,679
at ad in New Orleans. Think
about though, the what we've just discussed,

829
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,519
right, like what you said,
the names, the names we've thrown

830
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:37,800
out like well it's shingoon Yannis Davis, like you could throw whatever else.

831
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:40,639
But the thing is you're saying,
yeah, he'd be like those guys who

832
00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:45,920
are super different, except could do
more. Like this is why comparisons fail

833
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:51,079
with him, because there isn't There's
no such thing as a guy who can

834
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:53,880
be the best elbow facilitator in the
league, the best rim protector in the

835
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,599
league, the best off ball defender
in the league, the best pull up

836
00:52:57,639 --> 00:53:00,639
shooting big in the league. Like
there that does not exist. So it's

837
00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:06,519
like, I think the fact that
we have to invoke so many different players

838
00:53:06,519 --> 00:53:09,800
that are great at certain things but
have real weaknesses and still come up saying

839
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,960
like, yeah, he's kind of
like them, except like doesn't have the

840
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,400
flaw, Like that might be the
best possible argument for like, of course,

841
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,559
this guy's gonna be the best player
in the league if he doesn't get

842
00:53:20,639 --> 00:53:22,360
hurt, like we need maybe we
should just forget the injury thing, like

843
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,320
who care? Of course, yeah, everyone could be great if they didn't

844
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:30,199
get hurt, But like he is, you can't find a guy that you're

845
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,519
like, he's he's just like this
guy. And that's been true, Like

846
00:53:32,559 --> 00:53:36,960
from day one, really in terms
of his potential, He's like, yeah,

847
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,840
he might, he might be as
good as Anthony Davis at everything Anthony

848
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:45,039
Davis is good at, except also
he's a better pull up shooter and he's

849
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:49,360
better off the ball. Like there's
just it's there's no there's no guy out

850
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,079
there you can point to. That
is like a good approximation for him,

851
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:54,239
and I think that's probably the best
endorsement you can give him. Yeah,

852
00:53:54,320 --> 00:54:00,360
just like that, that entire package. Now, I am curious on one

853
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,199
thing that I found a little interesting
with where you're going when it comes to

854
00:54:05,199 --> 00:54:07,639
the Rookie of the I'm getting back
to the Rookie of the Year discussion very

855
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:12,719
quickly. Last year you ended up
picking Jalen Williams over Paloll Bank Cao,

856
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,519
And it feels like there's the inverse
of Jay Dubb came on later than Pale

857
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:21,360
Bank Caro did, and this is
the inverse where Wemby's doing the same thing.

858
00:54:21,639 --> 00:54:25,599
So you have like consistency there,
but like you valued Ja Dubb's efficiency

859
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:29,639
a ton, and I'm just wondering, what's the difference when it comes to

860
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,440
chet. Is it just because the
defensive gap is, like you believe it's

861
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,199
that massive. I'm not. I'm
not even quite. I'm just very curious

862
00:54:36,199 --> 00:54:38,880
how you approach that when before we
got on our when's Wenby gonna be the

863
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:44,239
best player? Thing? I was
gonna say, like, my logic is

864
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:49,639
is inconsistent because I based my Jalen
Williams pick last year on like, well,

865
00:54:49,679 --> 00:54:52,679
he's just so much more efficient and
ban Cao has like one way to

866
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,719
be great and he's not efficient as
a scorer and blah blah blah. Like

867
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:58,719
so it seems like I flipped that
because I'm like, oh, Chet's more

868
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,000
efficient, but his job's easier because
he's got better Plt's like that's the argument

869
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,280
you would have made, you know, the other way last year. It's

870
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:10,480
the defense. And it's just like
the degree again that it's comparing Williams and

871
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:14,480
Bancaro is like yeah, they're kind
of like similar, you know, they've

872
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:17,239
got their differences and there's it's just
like wemben Yama is just I think he's

873
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:21,559
just on a different level, Like
it's a it's a he's a tear up,

874
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:24,920
like he's not comparable to other players, let alone other rookies. Like

875
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,679
Chet is great. I love Chet
I think he's gonna be phenomenal, like

876
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:31,840
he's gonna make ten All Star Games
whatever. Like however, ridiculous you want

877
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:37,119
to get why didn't you say eleven
Grant? Yeah, I just think Wemby

878
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:38,840
is different. So it is something
if I need, if you want to

879
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,119
pin me down, it's like,
yeah, the defense is a pretty big

880
00:55:42,159 --> 00:55:47,039
differentiator, uh, for that argument, And I think I just I just

881
00:55:47,119 --> 00:55:52,400
can't be too hyperbolic about Wemben Yama. So yeah, you are right though,

882
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,679
like my logic for picking Jada over
ban Caroo last year should be flipped

883
00:55:57,559 --> 00:56:00,480
in this case. But I do
think so when he really started to shift

884
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:05,000
earlier than Jay Dubb, like made
that kind of leap, and so I

885
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,280
would understand it like from that,
and like the race has been close.

886
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,599
I think the race has been closer
for longer than it was with Palow and

887
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:14,800
Jada. I also just don't think
it was that particularly that close last year.

888
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,639
But when you're looking at role difficulty
that By the way, this is

889
00:56:16,679 --> 00:56:22,079
me being inconsistent, but I'm I'm
already saying that Wenby is going to win,

890
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:22,840
and I think he will be my
pick by the end of the year.

891
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,840
But to date, taking the whole
season into account, I roll with

892
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,719
chat so who we both had the
same third? Because we already said it,

893
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,760
So do you want to do you
want to reveal? Do we have

894
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,840
the same third? I was just
gonna ask you who your third is?

895
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:37,840
All right, I have Brandon Miller. Who do you have? I think

896
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:43,480
it has to be Miller. I
thought about two other guys, but I

897
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,360
think, I mean, Miller's kind
of harder to evaluate than maybe these other

898
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:51,639
couple guys. Uh, but maybe
there's three others. But I think Miller

899
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:54,119
has shown a ceiling. The knock
was, you know, he's gonna be

900
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:58,760
a good role player. I don't
see first option whatever. I still am

901
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,239
not sure that's possible for him,
but we saw some signs that, like

902
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:06,039
it's a little more likely than most
suspected that Miller might be, you know,

903
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,719
an all star level guy that can
be your first option for for chunks

904
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,960
of games or maybe season. So
I think it probably has to be Miller.

905
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,159
Really disappointed that Scoot is not going
to factor into this discussion, like

906
00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:21,119
at any point, considering we're able
to look over the moon about him.

907
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,280
There's still time, but like as
of now, Scoot doesn't even belong on

908
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,880
an All Rookie team. No,
not close, so I'm gonna. I

909
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,559
would say. The thing that's impressing
most about Brandon Miller is we've seen some

910
00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:34,800
of his efficiency from the perimeter,
like hold or actually be good. He's

911
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,079
shooting like thirty eight percent on threes
as we record this, despite the metal

912
00:57:37,079 --> 00:57:42,719
ball injury. He's definitely been overtask
with some facilitation, but getting that information

913
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,639
out what he can do. I
think he's done a better job of creating

914
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,639
his shot and getting separation than I
assumed he was going to do at this

915
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,480
level. One. I've just been
really impressed with the defense as a rookie.

916
00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:54,880
Like, no, he's not in
the all defense discussion like Homered and

917
00:57:54,920 --> 00:58:00,079
Wemby are, but like to someone
positionally who you can put on some really

918
00:58:00,119 --> 00:58:04,559
tough covers and he will make them
work to get the ball or prevent them

919
00:58:04,599 --> 00:58:08,360
from taking shots. That's really impressed
me. And so they have found I

920
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:13,679
think Mark Williams is really good.
He's been injured obviously for much of this

921
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,880
season, but like they found their
second building block. I think it's always

922
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:20,800
a little bit iffy when we're talking
about like bigs and building blocks when they're

923
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,159
you know, a niche archetype big, like a Williams or a Jailen Duran,

924
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,400
but like Brandon Miller to me is
just like, oh you have Lamelon,

925
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,119
you have Brandon Miller. Like that's
a real baseline off which to direct

926
00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:36,559
your entire franchise. Yeah. Agree, So in I don't know how much

927
00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:38,519
you care about the order, but
the guys we really have to mention here,

928
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:44,920
Brandon Pajemski, Jim Hawkes, Derek
Lively are kind of my next three.

929
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:47,599
I don't know, those are my
next three too, and I'll include

930
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:52,440
them in a massive dump of other
names that just like we're here. Yeah,

931
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,679
but it's funny that you mentioned the
same three. I was relieved to

932
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,800
find out, and maybe we should
have mentioned this that the sixty five game

933
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,960
minimum doesn't apply to all rookie or
Rookie of the Year because Derek Lively would

934
00:59:04,039 --> 00:59:07,840
not hit it and he absolutely belongs. Yeah, the only so I have

935
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,639
the next three names you have as
well the other guys I would throw on

936
00:59:10,679 --> 00:59:15,840
there, uh Keyante, George Amen
Thompson, and I think that's the only

937
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:21,079
ones you don't have up there that
I have on my uh my short Thompson's

938
00:59:21,119 --> 00:59:23,400
with a lot better he and again
because the game's minimum doesn't work. But

939
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,320
I think he gets to a point
where it's like when you're looking at the

940
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,360
total minutes played and where he ranks
there right now, it's just tough for

941
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:30,800
me to be like, you know, but I'll be curious. See what

942
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:34,760
your all rookie teams look like,
is what I'll say. I think you've

943
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:40,559
got a pretty good look at him
right now. Terrible podcasting we are,

944
00:59:40,599 --> 00:59:43,760
So where do you want to go
next? Do you want to start with

945
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,320
all that? You just want to
segue right into all rookie? Yeah,

946
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,719
let's do all rookie since we're kind
of on the topic that. Hell,

947
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,159
I'm gonna switch our windows now for
anyone who's watching. I have so many

948
00:59:53,199 --> 00:59:57,719
tabs open. It's it's an unhealthy
amount. It's scary. So, uh,

949
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,000
do you like my headings on the
what we have for the all league

950
01:00:01,039 --> 01:00:07,639
teams? Goodbye positions forever was always
rookie? Was always like positionless though,

951
01:00:07,719 --> 01:00:14,079
so that there's at least that all
right, there's no mystery about what like

952
01:00:14,639 --> 01:00:19,000
the first our first four of our
l NBA first team, it's weamby chet

953
01:00:19,639 --> 01:00:23,599
I think and I think Brandon Miller
is on there. Yeah, so oh,

954
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:28,199
you're talking about our first three for
this, No, I think our

955
01:00:28,239 --> 01:00:30,320
first four, Well, yeah,
our first three are there for sure.

956
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,000
But I think I think Pods is
probably an all rookie first teamer at this

957
01:00:34,119 --> 01:00:37,440
point. I would agree with you. I actually think we didn't get into

958
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,599
this when maybe now's a good time
to get into this. He's been more

959
01:00:40,679 --> 01:00:45,119
valuable than Haimi Hawks to me.
Yeah, And I'm also prepared to entertain

960
01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:49,320
I didn't put him here. I
want to make it clear, I'm prepared

961
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,400
to entertain that not only have Brandon
Miller, Victor orm Miyama, Tred Holmer

962
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,639
have been there, but Cason Wallace. I might take him over Haimi Hawks

963
01:00:55,719 --> 01:00:59,800
right now. Just the lack of
shooting and then a three point percentage for

964
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,000
just like it rankles me in a
weird way. So maybe I'm like kind

965
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,639
of counting that too much against him. But I'm curious where you, like,

966
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,199
did you consider putting anybody like could
you consider putting Derek Lively above Hawk?

967
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,880
Did you get to like any of
those points? I, in fact

968
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:19,280
do have Lively on my first team
over Hawkes. Oh, okay, and

969
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,800
now the the No. Sixty five
game limit is a factor there obviously because

970
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:29,199
I don't think Lively can hit it. But Lively to me showed like a

971
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:35,119
signature, like a like a a
staying skill, like he's gonna be a

972
01:01:35,159 --> 01:01:38,039
really good interior defensive player that can
move and he can catch lobs, Like

973
01:01:38,119 --> 01:01:43,360
I understand what Derek Lively can be
great at. Hawkes is kind of jack

974
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,000
of all trade z, which is
not like a knock. It's just I

975
01:01:45,039 --> 01:01:49,280
think I value that a little less
than I know I'm going to get this

976
01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:52,280
couple, these couple of awesome things
from Lively. So Hawkes is a second

977
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:57,000
teamer for me, like pretty pretty
easily because I considered him for a first

978
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,360
team. But uh yeah, I
think I like uh as the first team

979
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:05,400
a a little better. I had
Hawkes just over Lively in part because of

980
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,880
the when I first put it together, there was like the game's minimum of

981
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,119
play, but there is there is
a minutes differential there, and so that

982
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:14,679
mattered to me in this one.
And then also there's just more of a

983
01:02:15,519 --> 01:02:19,400
uh there's more positional versatility when it
comes defensively to Hawkes than there is for

984
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,320
Derek Lively who has been He's on
my second team. Just to be clear,

985
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,320
he's been absolutely uh spectacular, And
so I'm assuming you have Jimi Hawkes

986
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:30,599
on your second team, correct like
that? So who do you have?

987
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:31,920
I will say my next one,
and I'm bullish on this again, I

988
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:36,719
consider him for first team. I'm
like all case and Wallace every first like

989
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:39,440
as a plugging white guy who defends
his ass off and yeah, you'd like

990
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,159
to see him be more aggressive with
his own offense or as a passer,

991
01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:45,880
like they don't need him to do
that right now. He's just come in

992
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:50,760
and been like, what, maybe
they're like sixth because their best players have

993
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,400
been chet J. Dubb throw Lou
Dort and they are shay of course,

994
01:02:53,559 --> 01:02:57,079
like he's been. Case of Walla
has been more valuable them than Josh Giddy.

995
01:02:57,079 --> 01:02:58,880
That might be the best way to
put that. Yep, Nook,

996
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:00,679
Wallace is a no brainer. Uh, He's definitely on my second team.

997
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:06,360
Thought about him for first as well
after So this is where it gets difficult

998
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:07,960
because there's like four guys that I
feel like have to be there and we

999
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:15,559
have three spots. So the my
definites are are Asar Thompson again, the

1000
01:03:15,639 --> 01:03:19,519
idea of like, whatever else happens, I know he's going to be one

1001
01:03:19,519 --> 01:03:22,400
of the best defensive players in the
league for as long as he keeps his

1002
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:27,159
athleticism. Do you have Okay?
Good, you have him too? Yeah.

1003
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:32,039
If there's overlap, I'm gonna include
mine with yours. I just don't

1004
01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:37,760
know what to do here. So
so here are the choices, and maybe

1005
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:45,760
we can talk this out Keyante George
uh, Amen Thompson and Bilal Coolibali and

1006
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,400
we can only keep two. And
like, I'm agna, I think you

1007
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:52,920
could just kick out Amen Thompson because
of the like playing time stuff. But

1008
01:03:52,159 --> 01:03:54,880
like, am I sure that he's
not going to be better than maybe both

1009
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,559
of those guys? No? Uh
so are you do you have the same

1010
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:01,079
issues? Do you have those three
guys? Or is there someone I'm forgetting

1011
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:04,920
or is it easier for you shout
out Grady Dick for making a late,

1012
01:04:05,159 --> 01:04:08,840
very late season push. But do
you know who's the other one that I

1013
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,519
really want to include? I just
don't know. I don't know that I

1014
01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:15,239
could pick him over any of these
guys. He just does some nasty work

1015
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,119
defensively. Do you think you could
guess I'm drawing a blank, but I'm

1016
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:25,840
sure I'll be bothered him. Mani
Kamara played a ton of minutes too quiet.

1017
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,119
Well yeah, like that's almost to
a detrimentate point when you look at

1018
01:04:29,159 --> 01:04:31,239
what he's done on the offensive end
this year, I did not. I

1019
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,119
will say, so, I'll put
him here. He would have made like

1020
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,119
if there was a third team as
an honorable mention, I think, so

1021
01:04:38,199 --> 01:04:43,280
you have Kante George, Aman Thompson
and Blacoola Bali. I went with Blakoula

1022
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:47,559
Bali and Keyant George like and that
was I felt pretty good about that,

1023
01:04:47,719 --> 01:04:51,559
and it was the minutes thing did
it for me. I also think when

1024
01:04:51,559 --> 01:04:56,440
you kind of look at I think
the body of work with Blakool Bali wire

1025
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,920
to wire, where he's been more
valuable on offense despite not getting the usage

1026
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,000
he deserves and then really just covering
the opponent, opposing team's best player a

1027
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,920
lot of the time all season,
Like, then that minute's gap between him

1028
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,880
and am and Thompson matters to me. And then Kanta George is being saddled

1029
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:15,119
with more playmaking, more initiation,
more creation in general. That turned the

1030
01:05:15,119 --> 01:05:17,960
tables again. Maybe I'm waiting playing
time too much and who knows. Maybe

1031
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:24,480
I'm and Thompson just winds up bridging
that gap because he ranks sixteenth in total

1032
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,559
minutes played among rookies, and so
it's not outside the realm of possibility that

1033
01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:30,119
he works himself into. Like Cason
Wallace Territory, who I thought about for

1034
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:34,360
first team. Yeah, I think
I think Kolibally is the easiest one for

1035
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:38,159
me to make sure is on there, and then I'll I think, I

1036
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,360
mean, I'll just go George too. But I think I think you have

1037
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,920
maybe you have to go George because
like I'm pretty sure he's gonna be at

1038
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,039
least good and maybe very good at
a at a vital skill, which is

1039
01:05:50,079 --> 01:05:55,400
like he's gonna be a good creator
for himself and others with the ball,

1040
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:00,440
and Thompson's shooting limitations kind of just
mean that, like he's definitely be good

1041
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:02,880
defensively and in transition. I just
don't know if if Thompson can be the

1042
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,880
kind of driver of offense that George
I think is going to be able to

1043
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,400
be. So I think I think
that's what we have to do there.

1044
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,239
I would put Kamara if I had
a third team on there. And now

1045
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,039
we're coming Cam Ridmore belongs there.
He just doesn't have the sample size yet

1046
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:20,719
for me. You know who the
advanced numbers love to like a laughable degree

1047
01:06:20,719 --> 01:06:25,199
because all he does is catch good
passes and dunk. It is Trace Jackson

1048
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:28,559
Davis. Do you have him?
That would be your honor? Will mentioned

1049
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,440
I'd put him in an honorable mention
all right? I did not have him

1050
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,639
there. He's like he's one,
two, three fifth among rookies in in

1051
01:06:35,719 --> 01:06:40,400
EPM, which is like hilarious.
He might not hit the games played either

1052
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,760
if that mattered, which it doesn't. But I also had because just the

1053
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,360
offense isn't there yet. But I
also had Anthony Black for what he can

1054
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,400
do defensively. I don't even know. Did I have a fifth honorable mention

1055
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,719
on here? Let's go back to
my docu. So I have like the

1056
01:06:55,719 --> 01:07:00,400
the long list of like dwop Reef
Greedy Dick has come on lately. There's

1057
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,039
also just like Gigi Jackson. He's
only at five hundred plus minutes, so

1058
01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:06,519
that's kind of tough. But that
was someone else. Like I said,

1059
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:10,880
I've been impressed by Ben Shephard's defense
as a rookie. It's just now you're

1060
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,639
getting into sub five hundred guys,
and so I'm wondering, like, at

1061
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:15,920
what point is it just like the
Scoot belong here by virtue of playing twelve

1062
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,639
hundred minutes and that number is going
to go. I don't know how to

1063
01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:24,000
because he's had some really high level
moments and hit some difficult shots and made

1064
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,719
some really gnarly passes. I think
that how about frame it this way?

1065
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,800
There are only two guys and that's
Wemby and Chet that I'm sure are going

1066
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,639
to be better players than Scoot in
the end on this list. Like,

1067
01:07:33,679 --> 01:07:36,800
I still think we can't give up
on the possibility that Scoot is better than

1068
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:41,920
everybody but those two. But like, if we're just that that's a we

1069
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,239
put him on here, if we
just want to be like on the right

1070
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:45,519
side of history thing, you know, it's like, hey, we didn't

1071
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:49,960
forget this guy who became an All
star point guard. I'm trying to think

1072
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,840
Marcus Sasser. We haven't talked about
Marcus Sasser at all, just I mean,

1073
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,320
because the Pistons never played the right
guys, but really good shooter.

1074
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,360
I don't know what else he's going
to be able to do, But I

1075
01:08:00,519 --> 01:08:03,280
want to give throw him a mention
there. The other one that I'm convinced

1076
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,760
had he just been playing from day
one would be here is Taylor Hendrix.

1077
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,599
Oh man, you're never gonna give
up on that guy? Why would Well?

1078
01:08:11,719 --> 01:08:14,239
I don't think the Jazz have either, But like I think that he

1079
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,079
I think he's just gonna be really
good. So the I will say,

1080
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:23,000
it feels like I don't know what
were there like probably eight or nine all

1081
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:26,760
rookie spots that were really easy,
Like it really just maybe it's eight because

1082
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:30,079
it's the black Klabali Kiante, George
Aman Thompson, Timanti Kamara stuff. And

1083
01:08:30,119 --> 01:08:33,680
I'm just curious, like how many
minutes does Cam Whitmore end the season with

1084
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,720
and did? Like is he just
so ridiculously impactful that you have to put

1085
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:41,840
him on a second team anyway?
Yeah, I mean just throw just throw

1086
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,720
Whitmore on there for me to to
finish it up, because I think that's

1087
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,479
another potential right side of history when
you want to at least make sure you

1088
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,039
got him, like, hey,
we mentioned this guy. Yeah, look

1089
01:08:51,119 --> 01:08:56,319
we said Grady Dick and wop Wreath. Like I think that that really safeguards

1090
01:08:56,359 --> 01:09:00,560
us against people thinking that we don't
Cared Jackson. Nobody knows is who Gigi

1091
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,720
Jackson is outside of Memphis. I
feel like because he had like some just

1092
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:10,680
games that popped. But yeah,
I mean so yeah, there's just Memphis.

1093
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:12,880
By the way, we didn't mention
Taylor Jenkins and Coach of the Year

1094
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:15,319
the fact that it's like they still
kind of play hard on the defensive end.

1095
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:19,399
He probably deserves some love for like
the body of work that he has

1096
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,560
done there. So shout out Taylor
Jenkins. Let's get our twelfth coach on

1097
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,119
our coach of the year. About
it twelve it might have been twenty second

1098
01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:31,279
coach more so, we gotta do
all defense. Now. God, I

1099
01:09:31,319 --> 01:09:34,000
hate I just hate all of this. I love it, but I hate

1100
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:38,600
it. You ever see that Tony
Horton from P ninety X, Oh yeah,

1101
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:42,880
but I love it. That's what
That's what these awards are for me.

1102
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:45,159
Tony Horton, by the way,
it still looks great. And he's

1103
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:49,560
like sixty five or something five maybe
sixty something. He's in his sixties.

1104
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,159
Well, shout out to him.
I want to look like that. But

1105
01:09:53,199 --> 01:09:55,800
I guess that means I feel like, are we sure that he's is he

1106
01:09:55,840 --> 01:10:00,399
a Natty or not is the real
question. I don't know, all right.

1107
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,279
I think all that we really did
kind of step on at all defensive

1108
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:08,000
in our dpo wy that's the last
one, right, all defensive, Well

1109
01:10:08,079 --> 01:10:10,800
we have all NBA too, if
you care about that. Oh shit,

1110
01:10:12,319 --> 01:10:15,760
that's a little bit like that.
Let's let's just get all defense out way.

1111
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,520
Okay, easy first team for me? Well, no easy, first

1112
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:23,239
three guys on the first team because
I've had them in my top three.

1113
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:30,439
Gobert, Wemby ad Are on my
all defensive first team. Now I'm questioning

1114
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:35,119
because hearing you talk about all defenses, questioning why I have these next two

1115
01:10:35,119 --> 01:10:41,159
guys on there over some other players
justlining's sake. I'm not ranking these,

1116
01:10:41,159 --> 01:10:44,640
but like I bam was second,
but I'm putting inferred on the first team.

1117
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,279
So I actually did rank my first
team all defense was easy, which

1118
01:10:48,319 --> 01:10:50,680
is part of like the reason I
went to it, because like I ranked

1119
01:10:51,199 --> 01:10:55,319
my god like my top five or
six so that I would know what it

1120
01:10:55,359 --> 01:10:59,479
was. And so I ended up
with Rudy Gobert, Victor Webinyama, bam

1121
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:03,239
Adebay, Derek White, and Jalen
Suggs on my first team. Anthony Davis.

1122
01:11:03,399 --> 01:11:05,560
I'm just gonna go ahead and say
it, even though like he's on

1123
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:10,479
my set. First guy that was
the toughest, like those six I really

1124
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:15,199
did labor over. Okay, I'm
so suggestible because I'm gonna change the other

1125
01:11:15,199 --> 01:11:17,399
two guys I had on my first
team based on the argument. So I'm

1126
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,039
gonna put bam on my first team
and I'm gonna put Derek White on my

1127
01:11:20,039 --> 01:11:26,399
first team. Okay, I mean, why does that make you inconsistent because

1128
01:11:26,399 --> 01:11:29,000
that's not who I have written down
on the sheet I'm looking at when I

1129
01:11:29,079 --> 01:11:32,079
decided it was on even no one
needed to know that. Great. I

1130
01:11:32,079 --> 01:11:35,039
think it's good to change your mind
when you get confronted with UH with good

1131
01:11:35,039 --> 01:11:40,560
information. So kudos see you for
making good arguments. I clearly can't handle

1132
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,840
the frozen columns because I'm just putting
all these weird people like in bizarre places.

1133
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,039
But so yeah, you have Rudy
Gobert, Victor Woman, Yama,

1134
01:11:47,119 --> 01:11:51,640
Anthony Davis, Bamana, Bio Derek
by the way, all defense rookies like

1135
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:56,560
there's been I think it was Tim
Duncan, David Robinson and like Kakeem are

1136
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,960
the only ones to have made that
I should look that up, maybe while

1137
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:00,920
you're going through some of your other
but I don't think it's happened since Tim

1138
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,840
Duncan, and the fact that the
Spurs might and I'm not even talking,

1139
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:06,439
I don't even know if those were
first team selections. So, like I

1140
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:10,720
said, i'll look it up now. But the fact that the Spurs just

1141
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:15,000
have these rookies that are just probably
making All Defense, but you've had three

1142
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,119
of them, that's ridiculous, right. I don't know if anyone's ever made

1143
01:12:18,119 --> 01:12:21,920
this argument or this observation, but
it tends to go pretty well when the

1144
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,640
Spurs have the number one pick.
Historically, they just they tend to find

1145
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:32,880
a generational superstar with pretty high success. I pay. I think I need

1146
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,960
to put these next two guys because
they were originally first teamers, but I'll

1147
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:43,039
put them on my second team along
with Oh wow, so it just came

1148
01:12:43,159 --> 01:12:45,560
up. Here's everyone who made an
All Defense team as a rookie. There's

1149
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:50,600
been five Grant David Robinson, is
that badding? Yeah? David Robinson,

1150
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:55,520
Kareem, Tim Duncan, Hakeem and
Ma New Bowl A New Bowl, Yeah,

1151
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:57,439
that would have that'd be one that
would trip you up. If you

1152
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,119
had to name the five with three
strikes, I don't think you get I

1153
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:02,600
would get. I only would have
gotten three because I don't think I would

1154
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,079
have remembered that Kareem made it for
sure, so I definitely would have only

1155
01:13:05,119 --> 01:13:09,720
gotten three. Yeah, all right, So on my second team, I'm

1156
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:15,359
gonna put Alex Caruso, Jade McDaniels. All right, all right, And

1157
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:20,439
since I bumped Bam and Derek White
up, that leaves chet is gonna be

1158
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:29,399
on my second team. Ooh uh. And then I'm gonna go with Herb

1159
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:35,000
Jones. Like the length there.
Also, the Pelicans are elite on defense,

1160
01:13:35,039 --> 01:13:39,399
and I would argue he is the
primary reason why that was part of

1161
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,000
my thinking is you look at it
and it's like, well, how because

1162
01:13:42,039 --> 01:13:44,640
they play We talked about this a
little bit, but it's like Zion and

1163
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,039
Ingram and Valentiunis and McCollum, like, yeah, they're all, you know,

1164
01:13:47,119 --> 01:13:49,520
better than they've been, but like, how is this happening? It's

1165
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:54,760
like Dyson Daniels and I don't think
it's just him, So I Larry Nance

1166
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,840
doesn't play enough. So yeah,
I think I think Herb deserves a lot

1167
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,159
of credit there and Willie Green for
that matter. So whoever, I Oh

1168
01:14:00,399 --> 01:14:02,960
Aaron Gordon. I feel like you're
not going to have Aaron Gordon, and

1169
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:08,880
I understand that, but like ability
for him to play center. I think

1170
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:14,279
he's one of the maybe the most
underrated isolation defenders in the league. I

1171
01:14:14,279 --> 01:14:17,560
don't know what the numbers are,
this is pure eye test, but there's

1172
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,880
just like no one ever has an
advantage going against him. I feel like,

1173
01:14:23,039 --> 01:14:26,640
regardless of position, unless you're just
like Embiid, you know catches it.

1174
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,039
You know at the rim, sure
Gordon's going to struggle there. But

1175
01:14:30,079 --> 01:14:32,359
on the perimeter, Gordon is not
someone you go at. He just swallows

1176
01:14:32,399 --> 01:14:38,039
up possessions. I just think he's
he's like criminally underrated as a defender.

1177
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,920
So I gotta have him on my
second team. That's a good I didn't

1178
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,479
even I have him on like my
ultra long list. But I don't think

1179
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:45,760
if we built a third team,
which I didn't pencil in, that he'd

1180
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,479
be on mine. I'll throw my
second team here all at once. Oh

1181
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:55,199
KCP, I love it. So
yeah, the matchup difficulty with what he

1182
01:14:55,279 --> 01:14:58,079
is, so I have ad that
shouldn't be a surprise. Can take me,

1183
01:14:58,079 --> 01:15:00,199
it's called go look at the matchup
difficulty, like just the players he's

1184
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:04,520
defending. Lou Dort, though single
handedly, has shouldered the in terms of

1185
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,880
when you're looking at the guarded usage
and just the matchup difficulty per b ball

1186
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:12,239
Index. Among anyone to have a
thousand minutes this year, no one has

1187
01:15:12,279 --> 01:15:15,199
had a heavier defensive workload than lou
Dort. And I think that, like,

1188
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:18,359
there are so many moving parts to
the Thunder offense, and I recognize

1189
01:15:18,359 --> 01:15:21,680
that. I think when you look
at a KCP or Herb Jones, who's

1190
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:27,680
also on my second team, or
Alex Caruso, there's like a baseline there

1191
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,960
and lou Dort can drop below that
for them. But like his peak to

1192
01:15:31,039 --> 01:15:33,960
me is just like, oh no, he'll shut down one through four.

1193
01:15:34,199 --> 01:15:38,920
Someone one through four, And Herb
Jones is kind of right there. But

1194
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,279
like just the level of like the
volume that he does it at, I

1195
01:15:42,319 --> 01:15:44,760
feel like Dort does it on a
slightly larger scale. I have them both

1196
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:47,239
on second team. It's the same
difference. I think Herb Jones, we

1197
01:15:47,279 --> 01:15:50,640
didn't mention him among most improved players. He might have, like just given

1198
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,520
the stuff that he's kind of done
as a driver this year, and and

1199
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:57,800
even as a three point shooter,
like a super deep cut for that.

1200
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:01,399
And then Alex Caruso is just he
remained exhaustive and he was not initially on

1201
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,159
there, but then hearing you talk
about him before in the in the Defensive

1202
01:16:05,159 --> 01:16:08,239
Player of the Year discussion, I
was like, Yeah, I don't know

1203
01:16:08,239 --> 01:16:11,279
why I'm penalizing him for minutes when
he's probably gonna log a career high in

1204
01:16:11,359 --> 01:16:13,800
minutes this year. And I'm pretty
sure I had him on a an all

1205
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,680
defense team last season. So there
are a lot of and we went through,

1206
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,760
like we already did go through a
bunch of different names that could make

1207
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:25,439
it. I consider I think,
actually, did I actually officially build my

1208
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,880
third team? I might have.
Oh, I started to so I have

1209
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,199
the three toughest cuts for me,
I guess we're Jared Jackson, Junior Chet

1210
01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:36,119
Holmgren and I feel like this one
might surprise you. But Jay Dubb,

1211
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:40,920
oh really no, that does surprise
me. But I'm not mad at it.

1212
01:16:42,159 --> 01:16:44,680
Did you have like anyone that was
super tough like when it came to

1213
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,760
honorable mentions? Yeah, I kind
of did put together a third team.

1214
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:53,239
And then I have literally like fifteen
snubs that I agonized over. So Jalen

1215
01:16:53,239 --> 01:16:57,159
Suggs would be on my third team
if such a thing existed. Jared Allen

1216
01:16:57,199 --> 01:17:01,680
would be there. Who do I? Oh? Jannis I put there?

1217
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:06,399
And then Chris Dunn NSR Thompson.
I think he just named six players?

1218
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:14,600
Did I Suggs, Allen, Jalen
Suggs? Who else did you have?

1219
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,880
You had a Chris Dunn NSR.
Wow, you were really high on this

1220
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,960
rookie class. Huh. I would
have Dave Daniels, who I feel like

1221
01:17:23,079 --> 01:17:25,680
just slipped a tad this year.
Maybe I'm wrong. You can say I

1222
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,439
don't watch enough of the Wolves.
That's fine. He would certainly have made

1223
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:30,079
my third team. Who want to
give my final third teams? But I

1224
01:17:30,079 --> 01:17:32,920
should be spicy and just go with
Aaron Gordon and say that you sold me

1225
01:17:33,359 --> 01:17:39,840
on it. I feel like I
think it comes down to Jared Allen or

1226
01:17:40,159 --> 01:17:44,479
Dylan Brooks for me, and I
just don't know what to do. I'm

1227
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:50,239
gonna say, Dylan Brooks like high
five or Dylan Brooks, can I give

1228
01:17:50,279 --> 01:17:55,640
you like fifty snubs? We already
talked about the sub sixty five ers.

1229
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:57,600
I guess in defensive player of the
year, so you don't need to go

1230
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,119
through those guys. Dort was the
snub. Jared Jackson was like an impossible

1231
01:18:01,239 --> 01:18:04,439
snub. I feel terrible that he's
not on there. People will be mad

1232
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:08,760
if we don't say SGA because he's
going to lead the league in steels probably

1233
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:12,079
and has just been a good defender. But you do such a good job

1234
01:18:12,079 --> 01:18:15,720
of insulating and optimizing him, and
that's again, it's still an ability,

1235
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,279
and he's been great, But to
say he's been one of the fifteen most

1236
01:18:18,359 --> 01:18:23,439
impactful defenders this year just feels a
little like a stretch. I'm not saying

1237
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:28,239
you're saying that's why he's a snub. So do you know who leeds the

1238
01:18:28,279 --> 01:18:34,600
league in defensive estimated plus minus?
It's a certain New York Knicks center.

1239
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:42,319
Is it? Isaiah Hartenstein? Is
Isaiah Hartenstein? He's not that Obviously,

1240
01:18:42,359 --> 01:18:45,439
he's not the best defender in the
league, but like, I just got

1241
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:48,039
to mention him because he's been really
good and has been asked to just do

1242
01:18:48,159 --> 01:18:53,520
stuff that. I mean, can
you imagine like three years ago that like

1243
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:56,720
this is who Hartenstein has become where
it's just like, yeah, he's the

1244
01:18:56,720 --> 01:19:00,560
best center on the Knicks, Like
that's just so watching him with Clippers,

1245
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:03,359
that does I mean to lead the
league in any just catch all defensive metric

1246
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:08,199
is wild. So yeah, I
recognize that, but this like doesn't surprise

1247
01:19:08,319 --> 01:19:11,960
me that he is this good.
Like I think moving forward, there's a

1248
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,880
real chance that he makes more sense
for them than Mitchell Robinson. Yeah,

1249
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:18,439
by the way, ranks like twelfth
in you got them well, and they're

1250
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:20,840
both on good contracts, so you
can just I mean, harden Sound is

1251
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:25,039
gonna get paid here eventually, but
he's tible. I feel like we just

1252
01:19:25,039 --> 01:19:30,039
have to he needs mentioned, even
though you know nobody's watching him this year

1253
01:19:30,079 --> 01:19:33,560
and he's still kind of mostly an
off ball guy. Brook Lopez warrants to

1254
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:39,079
mention I think Drew Holliday, Kawhi, Anthony Edward. I was gonna say

1255
01:19:39,159 --> 01:19:43,199
Kawhi has been tough because there's been
moment like he's still choosy. Yes,

1256
01:19:43,239 --> 01:19:45,520
it feels like, yeah, so
that's why I didn't have him. I

1257
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,560
do think so two players had they
We mentioned og had Obi already, right,

1258
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:53,600
Like he's just not going to make
the threshold. What I'm talking about

1259
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:55,880
players who aren't going to make the
threshold that. I feel like I would

1260
01:19:55,880 --> 01:20:00,319
have considered you said, Jonathan Isaac, you said Joel Embiid. This is

1261
01:20:00,359 --> 01:20:03,399
the guy that I'm convinced I might
have even had him on first team if

1262
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:06,560
you would have told me he played
in sixty five games this year. Can

1263
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:11,159
you guess? Is it Draymond?
Oh? Okay, that's a good one,

1264
01:20:11,199 --> 01:20:15,520
but that's not it. I don't
I mean Claxton Maybe, No,

1265
01:20:15,119 --> 01:20:20,000
I don't have it. Tarry Eathan, Oh yeah, god, what is

1266
01:20:20,039 --> 01:20:23,720
it? A stress reaction? Right, like he's just he might be done?

1267
01:20:24,079 --> 01:20:26,720
Yeah, and like they just seem
to not know what's going on.

1268
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,159
And they said it was ema Udoka. It said that, oh he This

1269
01:20:30,239 --> 01:20:31,720
isn't the exact words that he was, but he kind of fibbed a little

1270
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:33,760
bit about how much pain he wasn't
in, and I'm like, well,

1271
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,880
isn't there like someone there to prevent, like to understand, like, oh

1272
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:41,640
no, like stuff's like it doesn't
feel like they have a great grasp of

1273
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,279
his injuries. My point, he
was nearing I think there was a report

1274
01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:47,039
that said he was nearing return on
February first or around that time. And

1275
01:20:47,039 --> 01:20:49,239
then like you fast forward coming out
of the All Star breaking, like we

1276
01:20:49,279 --> 01:20:53,720
have no idea where the fuck is
going? Yeah, can you imagine if

1277
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,680
a Rockets lineup that I mean,
I don't know where the scoring is.

1278
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,680
But like Jabari Smith's gonna be is
AND's gonna be a good defense under you

1279
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,560
have Brooks, you have Aman Thompson, and you have Tari Easton. Like

1280
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:08,399
theoretically you could play those guys together. I don't know too yeah in there,

1281
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:13,079
I mean, you know, aeroll
Man, if I understand, we

1282
01:21:13,119 --> 01:21:15,640
could say this every year because let's
say, let's say Draymond had been well,

1283
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:20,199
Draymond might be a good case study
because if Draymond missed twenty four games,

1284
01:21:20,239 --> 01:21:25,199
like he's probably someone we still would
have considered for all defense anyway,

1285
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:30,039
Yeah, for a minute, you
have to his impact since he's been back

1286
01:21:30,039 --> 01:21:31,960
has been massive. I think the
Warriors are top ten on both ends since

1287
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,720
he's been back offense. So like, you know, I will just say

1288
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:40,640
I'm trying to feel like I remember
the last time, uh where I said

1289
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,600
that, like if these players had
played more, my first team All defense

1290
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,199
would have looked a lot different where
it would have been Draymond and Tari Easton.

1291
01:21:45,239 --> 01:21:48,319
That's like a very wild caveat to
say, but it's also just I

1292
01:21:48,359 --> 01:21:51,359
think Tari Easton is that good?
And we know Draymond Yeah, is that

1293
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:56,399
good? That's probably good? Right, I think we've mentioned thirty some odd

1294
01:21:56,399 --> 01:22:00,000
guys so far. Uh, hopefully
we mentioned Giannis, right I didn't.

1295
01:22:00,279 --> 01:22:02,520
Maybe he should be on my third
team, ass he's tough. Giannis or

1296
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:08,079
Dylan Brooks or Jared Allen or j
dub like you could Chris Dunn if he

1297
01:22:08,159 --> 01:22:11,079
just played more. Yeah, Dennis
Smith Junior if he played more. He's

1298
01:22:11,119 --> 01:22:14,920
a sub sixty five guy, I
think. And like if Jimmy Jimmy Butler,

1299
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:16,119
if Jimmy Butler had played more,
we would have to talk about him

1300
01:22:16,119 --> 01:22:20,239
probably too, I'd think even you
know, I porzingis, Yeah, it's

1301
01:22:20,319 --> 01:22:24,159
ridiculous. There's way too many good
defensive players with that, or we just

1302
01:22:24,159 --> 01:22:27,239
don't know what we're talking about when
it comes to defense, which ill is

1303
01:22:27,279 --> 01:22:30,159
really freaking hard to evaluate. Like
that's the one, by the way,

1304
01:22:30,199 --> 01:22:31,560
where it's like I look at the
metrics and I'm like, Okay, it

1305
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,720
says this, but I'm inclined to
not that. My eye test is a

1306
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:39,479
lot better. And if someone's showing
up like in the same metrics that I

1307
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,079
tend to trust. I'll I'll wait
it. But like that's the one where

1308
01:22:42,359 --> 01:22:45,159
it feels like purely anecdotal, Like
there's you could look at the steels and

1309
01:22:45,199 --> 01:22:48,920
the blocks and the rim like it's
easier for biggs because so much of what's

1310
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:55,359
quantified for defense, it's most accurate
when it comes to the what what the

1311
01:22:55,399 --> 01:22:58,880
bigs are doing around the basket stuff
is what I'm saying. But you know,

1312
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,039
it's been really good around the baskets
get this year, though Jane McDaniels,

1313
01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:03,119
maybe I should have put them on
the second team, but that's true.

1314
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,640
Sorry, I got between the two
of us, we've accounted for everybody.

1315
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:10,960
I'm pretty sure, well, no, we're someone's gonna point out that

1316
01:23:11,039 --> 01:23:13,479
we like, why isn't Trey jung
On here? Look at how hard he's

1317
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,479
been trying this year. The way
that we've now romanticized Trey Young's defense is

1318
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:20,640
a little disgusting. I'm I'm not
gonna lie, is Trey Young the most

1319
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:27,800
improved? Just because Okay, so
we're up to all NBA and I was

1320
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,039
thinking about this, so I wanted
to ask you because I was trying to

1321
01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:33,119
think, like, well, the
way that we went about MVP, like

1322
01:23:34,079 --> 01:23:38,960
I didn't rank after five NESSA or
I didn't rank after six. But it's

1323
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:43,399
like your top ten should align with
your yeah first two on MEIA teams,

1324
01:23:43,399 --> 01:23:46,119
And then I'm like, well,
does it because there's a difference between Is

1325
01:23:46,159 --> 01:23:49,600
there a difference I'm asking you between
this player and I think, like maybe

1326
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:54,199
a perfect case study is, let's
look at Jalen Brunson. Is there a

1327
01:23:54,199 --> 01:23:57,840
difference between, well, this player
is so valuable to this team this season

1328
01:23:58,319 --> 01:24:01,079
versus I'm just looking for who are
the fifteen best players in the NBA that

1329
01:24:01,159 --> 01:24:06,239
qualify under the criteria right now?
And that made me adjust some of my

1330
01:24:06,319 --> 01:24:13,359
All NBA returns. So I think
the only distinction I'm I'm pretty sure,

1331
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:16,960
and I mentioned this that I draw
between MVP and All NBA is that if

1332
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:19,960
you're over the sixty five game threshold
and you qualify, I really don't care

1333
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:24,000
how many minutes you've played, Like
I'm just gonna cut it off and everything's

1334
01:24:24,039 --> 01:24:28,399
equal over a certain point. So
that's different because you know, look like

1335
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:31,119
if the word valuable is in the
in the award title, then I have

1336
01:24:31,159 --> 01:24:35,600
to consider like volume of contribution as
it relates to value, and All NBA

1337
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:40,760
feels much more like which guys are
the best this year? And I think

1338
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,399
even All NBA has like this element
of like, yeah, but who's actually

1339
01:24:44,439 --> 01:24:46,760
the best? You know, independent, like we'll think about this year mostly,

1340
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:50,239
but maybe like fifteen percent of this
is kind of like the let's I'm

1341
01:24:50,239 --> 01:24:53,560
gonna nudge you and be like,
yeah, but this guy's better. We

1342
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:56,279
all know it, right, Like
there's some part of that. So All

1343
01:24:56,359 --> 01:24:59,960
NBA is a little fuzzier in some
ways. But the big difference is just

1344
01:25:00,079 --> 01:25:03,680
the minutes don't really matter to me
beyond a certain point. So I'm going

1345
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:08,159
to start. I think we should
start here. There are four locks for

1346
01:25:08,199 --> 01:25:11,159
first team All NBA, correct,
so I will slot them in accordingly,

1347
01:25:11,159 --> 01:25:15,479
and I'm assuming these are the same
locks that you have. Absolutely Now,

1348
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:19,760
fifth gets interesting and I ended up
defaulting though to who I had fifth on

1349
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:24,760
my MVP valet, which was Donovan
Mitchell. Okay, I have Kawhi in

1350
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:28,680
that fifth spot, which I feel
like, if we do this again in

1351
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:30,359
a month, I feel like that
might be the right answer. Well that's

1352
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:34,800
ultimately so that's why I didn't consider
Mitchell for this spot. Really seriously,

1353
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:39,279
I thought about Tatum, I thought
about Durant, and I thought about Haliburton,

1354
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,159
and I gave it to Kawhi.
On the I like nudged myself and

1355
01:25:42,199 --> 01:25:44,239
I was like, yeah, but
you know who's the best, right,

1356
01:25:44,359 --> 01:25:46,520
Like it's Kawhi. Let's not mess
around. So that I just tucked myself

1357
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:50,720
into like Kawhi is the scariest two
wig guy in the league sometimes still,

1358
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:54,600
and I'm just not going to not
put him there if he's healthy. So

1359
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:57,840
I considered because I was, like
I said, trying to move away from

1360
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,279
value and it was like the same
with the minute I considered Tyrese here,

1361
01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:04,279
I considered Kevin Durant here, and
I had a mini discussion on YouTube the

1362
01:26:04,279 --> 01:26:09,359
YouTube comments with the rubik'scal about I
might just be discounting because he just felt

1363
01:26:09,399 --> 01:26:12,319
like, I don't want to say, an actively damaging defender for the first

1364
01:26:12,359 --> 01:26:15,000
part of the year, but just
not as engaged. And I'm now wondering,

1365
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:16,680
like, well, that was probably
because Booker and bal were injured for

1366
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:20,199
a good part of that first stretch, but Durant, Kawhi was there.

1367
01:26:20,279 --> 01:26:25,199
I look at Donovan mitchelone, I
just really do appreciate the level of creation

1368
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,439
and table setting. He shouldered for
so much of this year during those injuries,

1369
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:33,279
And I do think while you shouldn't
be detracting from other players because their

1370
01:26:33,319 --> 01:26:39,640
team wasn't injured, that the anecdotal
element of it does can still give you

1371
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:43,439
a bump. I do think that
his spot might be flimsy as well.

1372
01:26:43,399 --> 01:26:45,079
When I was actually listening, I
was reading or listening to someone I can't

1373
01:26:45,159 --> 01:26:48,560
remember now that was doing all NBA
teams and don Mitchell wasn't even on like

1374
01:26:49,119 --> 01:26:53,880
their third team. Wow, And
that felt like egregious to me. Is

1375
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:56,960
that egregious or no? Was he
fringed for you? No, Mitchell was

1376
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:00,600
a no brainer second teamer for me. He's He's easily in the second team

1377
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,479
along with Tatum and Durant and Halliburton
because I thought about those guys for first

1378
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:10,439
team. So you had Jason Tatum, Kevin Durant, and Halliburton on your

1379
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:15,920
second team along with Donovan Mitchell.
Yeah, Kevin Durrant, Jason Tatum,

1380
01:27:16,039 --> 01:27:21,119
Donovan Mitchell, and who is Otari's
Haliburton? Yeah, which is just I

1381
01:27:21,159 --> 01:27:25,920
don't like he. I think he
I ended up cutting him for my second

1382
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:28,880
team, and I'm still just like
not feeling great about it. I did

1383
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:32,399
have I did have Tatum, I
had Durant, Dono Mitchell was on my

1384
01:27:32,399 --> 01:27:35,600
first team. I had Kawhi Leonard
was there too, So that aligns.

1385
01:27:36,159 --> 01:27:40,000
Uh. I this So this is
what it came down to for me.

1386
01:27:40,079 --> 01:27:45,000
Is I was thinking Halliburton, Lebron
and Devin Booker were like the players that

1387
01:27:45,079 --> 01:27:48,359
these final two spots came down and
you have one more spot left right,

1388
01:27:48,399 --> 01:27:54,119
I do. And you haven't mentioned
this player yet. Uh, Anthony Davis.

1389
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:58,920
No, Steph Curry is Steph Curry. Steph Curry. I get that.

1390
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,199
I just feel like still and maybe
this is part of the Warriors construction

1391
01:28:01,239 --> 01:28:05,600
that he just hasn't been as thermonuclear
af on the offensive end, like the

1392
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:11,479
ability to uplift imperfections with Golden State. But I don't know if that's just

1393
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:15,199
like anecdotally untrue. I mean,
he's just you look at the numbers and

1394
01:28:15,279 --> 01:28:17,279
the three point volume and the efficiency
and the way he bends defenses. I'm

1395
01:28:17,319 --> 01:28:21,560
not gonna I'm not gonna quibble with
you. Yeah, I mean the numbers

1396
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:27,199
are down, it's just that like
they're down to twenty eight four and five

1397
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,840
on you know, forty one percent
shooting on you know, it's from deep

1398
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:34,399
like he's still to me, I
still think we're kind of bad at appreciating

1399
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:40,680
like what he does to defenses.
Still, like you know, somehow,

1400
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:42,800
I don't know, we're we're like
fifteen years into this thing, and it's

1401
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:46,199
still like we don't totally appreciate how
great he is. Like I think,

1402
01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:49,319
I think Lebron so, I mean, I'll just I might as well.

1403
01:28:49,399 --> 01:28:53,079
Just everybody you talked about is like
gonna be on my third team. So

1404
01:28:53,159 --> 01:28:56,399
maybe that's maybe if you go with
your third team, like so you said

1405
01:28:56,479 --> 01:28:59,079
Lebron's second team. I have him
on the third team. I have Booker

1406
01:28:59,159 --> 01:29:01,680
on the third team. I don't
know if I have anybody else from your

1407
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:03,800
second team. Yeah, I'll throw
my third team up there so that I

1408
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:08,079
could type yours in. But I
have Tyre's Haliburtons, don't I feel like

1409
01:29:08,199 --> 01:29:13,760
he should be on the second team
for me. I just the defensive deficiencies,

1410
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,039
and he's been since he's come back
from injury, just not as good.

1411
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:19,000
And so I'm just looking at Lebron
Andy, by the way, I

1412
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:23,680
think, honestly, I know I
had Lebron ahead of Booker and the MVP

1413
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:26,319
Valot. But I probably am more
likely if I had to. If you

1414
01:29:26,319 --> 01:29:28,439
said, no, you have to
move Tyres on the second team, I'm

1415
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:30,960
probably bouncing Lebron or Tatum before Booker. I'm not just not gonna lie.

1416
01:29:31,279 --> 01:29:34,840
I value his playmaking so much and
the stuff that he can even when he's

1417
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:39,640
off the ball, where he's more
likely to move than than a KD there.

1418
01:29:40,279 --> 01:29:43,279
But you said you had Lebron on
the third team. I do have

1419
01:29:43,359 --> 01:29:46,199
Jalen Brunson on my third team.
That was so. Jalen Brunson's case is

1420
01:29:46,239 --> 01:29:51,039
interesting because I feel like he's the
quint essential. His case as most valuable

1421
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:56,479
is stronger than an all NBA case
because I do think there might be people

1422
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:58,479
that leave him off, and like, look, he has the numbers there

1423
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:00,600
when you look at someone's gonna average
twenty five plus six plus assists, he's

1424
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:03,239
hitting his off the dribble threes.
But like, he doesn't give you a

1425
01:30:03,239 --> 01:30:08,000
lot defensively, and it feels like
a lot of his case is propped up.

1426
01:30:08,039 --> 01:30:10,800
I will look how many minutes he
played, or look at how many

1427
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:14,520
look at how much isn't around him
in New York, and I absolutely think

1428
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,600
that matters when it comes to MVP. It didn't like matter to me as

1429
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:23,439
much when talking about All NBA.
Yeah, okay, so you have Lebron

1430
01:30:23,479 --> 01:30:26,760
and Jalen Brunson. For me,
I have Anthony Davis is on my third

1431
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:30,439
team. He was my first cut, and I feel awful about it,

1432
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:33,439
but like the offensive juice just isn't
there for me, and I don't know

1433
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:36,319
how to. He's been available,
which I appreciate. I think he's been

1434
01:30:36,359 --> 01:30:41,399
great defensively, but I couldn't he
was among my first tough cuts. I

1435
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:43,800
have Booker on my third team.
I was thinking like, oh my god,

1436
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:45,520
did I forget him? Though he's
the third teamer for me and who's

1437
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:50,279
my Oh this last spot was brutal. It ultimately is going to be Anthony

1438
01:30:50,359 --> 01:30:57,439
Edwards for me, but they're the
toughest cuts, which which will be just

1439
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,239
on my next team. I thought, I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie.

1440
01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:04,600
I thought about when Yama I thought
about I was wondering if we could talk

1441
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:09,960
about Anthony Edwards really quickly. Sure, I'm like, I think some people

1442
01:31:10,039 --> 01:31:13,359
might look one the fact that the
Timberwolves might be the have the second best

1443
01:31:13,359 --> 01:31:15,560
record in the league when all said
and done, and they would only have

1444
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:18,000
one All NBA player. Is a
little bit weird, but that's what happens

1445
01:31:18,039 --> 01:31:20,560
when you get rid of positions.
Otherwise, Rudy might have had a case

1446
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:24,560
to beat a d And that's,
by the way, that's who this hurts.

1447
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:28,199
Was like the Rudy Gobert, Sabonis, Anthony Davis tier by getting rid

1448
01:31:28,239 --> 01:31:30,800
of Biggs, and obviously it had
embiid like too. If we had stuck

1449
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:34,680
to the previous criteria, two of
those guys would have made it because Inbeed,

1450
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:38,720
I just don't think would have logged
enough time this season to have factored

1451
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:42,399
in. But when I look at
Anthony Edwards, there's stuff I wish he

1452
01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:45,720
did more of, like you know, the the off the dribble. Scoring

1453
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,159
efficiency when it comes to his jumper
is not super high, but he's close

1454
01:31:48,199 --> 01:31:53,600
to thirty eight percent from three all
year, and I think we might underestimate

1455
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:58,039
how he's not throwing these necessarily flashy
passes. But he is so important to

1456
01:31:58,159 --> 01:32:00,560
driving the offense for the Timberwolves.
I know Mike Conley receives a lot of

1457
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:04,920
credit, but like when you play
Conley without Anthony Edwards, the Timberwolves offense

1458
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:10,640
ranks in like the eighteen percent tile. When you play edwards without Conley,

1459
01:32:11,039 --> 01:32:14,840
their offense ranks at the ninety third
percent TILE. Like that's a big deal

1460
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:17,479
because he's still working within dual big
lineups there, and it's not like he's

1461
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:24,920
working with they're not playing vastly different
just edwards lineups versus just Conley lineups.

1462
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:28,079
Like the pairings when you look at
the most used of the other four that

1463
01:32:28,119 --> 01:32:30,079
are mix and matched, they're largely
the same, like they're gonna consist of

1464
01:32:30,119 --> 01:32:35,359
the same combination of other guys.
So I just the efficiency isn't always there

1465
01:32:35,399 --> 01:32:39,800
with him relative to others and the
turnovers. I do think he's part of

1466
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:44,479
the issues with Minnesota, but I
absolutely think he belongs on third team All

1467
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:48,079
NBA for his body of work this
season, and I will be I don't

1468
01:32:48,119 --> 01:32:51,039
know if this is like a moot
discussion, like maybe it doesn't like he'll

1469
01:32:51,039 --> 01:32:54,640
just be there ain, but like
you're looking at someone who's averaging twenty seven

1470
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:57,840
points five assists, and yeah,
do you wish he was scoring a little

1471
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:00,920
bit higher on his twos maybe,
but his true shooting he's still at for

1472
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:03,399
the year. What is the ad
on True fifty eight eight. It's like

1473
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:06,039
it's, you know, it's not
super high, but it's good enough.

1474
01:33:06,680 --> 01:33:11,439
I think he should be at all
ab a lock though pretty locked and it

1475
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:15,079
was harder than that for me.
But like, I think I think it

1476
01:33:15,159 --> 01:33:18,000
helps his case like that, I
think you'd find people that say he not

1477
01:33:18,159 --> 01:33:23,479
McDaniels has been the second best defensive
player on the Wolves this year. I'm

1478
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:27,600
not ready to get there. I
think I think you mentioned it like Edwards

1479
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,560
kind of toggles the switch a little
bit, Like you know, I think

1480
01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:32,840
John Krasinski recently wrote like A.
I mean, I like, I think

1481
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:35,720
John's one of the best beat writers
in the league. But it very much

1482
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:40,199
felt like Edwards guy's got in his
ear and were like, you got to

1483
01:33:40,239 --> 01:33:43,279
talk about this guy's defense, and
it was there were no numbers involved.

1484
01:33:43,359 --> 01:33:45,159
It was very anecdotal, but it
did talk about how like he turns it

1485
01:33:45,199 --> 01:33:47,479
on and it's like, oh my
god, nobody can do anything with this

1486
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:50,680
guy, which is true. So
I think if you're trying to split hairs,

1487
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:55,920
the fact that Edwards can be but
is not always really like lights out

1488
01:33:55,920 --> 01:34:00,760
defensive player, that that helps for
sure. Where do we so where else

1489
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:03,880
did we end up differing Is you
have Anthony Davis, which that line he

1490
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:09,039
was among one of my like he
was, he was right there. I

1491
01:34:09,039 --> 01:34:14,560
think it's just that, yeah,
Foxes, I know the efficiency has come

1492
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:17,760
down, but he's been better defensively
this year. He can still take and

1493
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:23,439
make really difficult shots. He is
a driving force of that offense, whether

1494
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:26,840
you're trying to get out in transition, operate early in the shotcock, or

1495
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:30,159
if you need to make something out
of nothing. He's been like he's had

1496
01:34:30,239 --> 01:34:31,479
He's not gonna win Clutch Player of
the Year again, but he's had some

1497
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:36,560
like especially in the month of February, he was just annihilatory during crunch time,

1498
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:40,800
and I think that he is.
I know, so Bonus has these

1499
01:34:41,119 --> 01:34:44,239
monster lines, and the Bonus was
a tough cut for me. So I

1500
01:34:44,279 --> 01:34:46,720
had four players that I have.
His locks is like, all right,

1501
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:51,079
I need to mention these guys if
there was a fourth team and they are

1502
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:56,159
Anthony Davis domas a bonus. I
think James Harden has quietly been great for

1503
01:34:56,199 --> 01:34:59,600
the most part in LA and then
Christoph's just keeps popping up in all these

1504
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,600
discuss said he's like two games away
or whatever it is from being an eligible

1505
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:06,520
but for right now, he was
a tougher cut for me. Sabonis his

1506
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:10,800
numbers are just so like he's averaging
over eight assists per game, but the

1507
01:35:11,119 --> 01:35:15,479
limitations that he poses both on offense
and defense when you just look at some

1508
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:18,119
of the spacing or what he the
shots he won't take, let's say it

1509
01:35:18,159 --> 01:35:23,039
that way. And then just defensively, Yeah, the Kings, there's been

1510
01:35:23,119 --> 01:35:28,800
defensive improvement, but like Sabonis,
aside from his rebounding, is not coaxing

1511
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,600
that out of them at all.
Dan, I'm so tired of you dumping

1512
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:35,520
on Sabonis and me having to prop
this guy. I just had him as

1513
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:40,479
my fourth team all NBA considered.
I'm not usually my bit where I have

1514
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:45,520
to like to have a way apologize
for everything I say about Sabonis. I've

1515
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:48,760
talked enough about him. He makes
my my my hypothetical fourth team. Oh

1516
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:53,199
does he? I'm actually pleasantly I'm
proud of you. Well, I feel

1517
01:35:53,239 --> 01:35:57,159
like I look I'm over correcting.
I still don't believe in him as a

1518
01:35:57,159 --> 01:36:00,279
as a like, you can't max
this guy out. He cannot be one

1519
01:36:00,319 --> 01:36:03,079
of your highest paid players on a
team. That's gonna do anything but awesome

1520
01:36:03,079 --> 01:36:08,800
statistical year place Like the other thing, like things I praise other players for

1521
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:12,720
that, I just overlook with the
bonus is like plays really hard, like

1522
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:15,840
and just is seems like he really
is invested in, like making other players

1523
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:18,359
better. Like I love those things. I just don't give him enough credit

1524
01:36:18,359 --> 01:36:20,399
for them. So I'm trying to
be I'm trying to be better Dan.

1525
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:25,560
Did anybody else on my fourth team
make your fourth team? Well? I

1526
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,880
had Davis on my what second or
third? I did not have Harden.

1527
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:33,800
He was a tough cut. I
have Chet on my fourth team. I

1528
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:38,399
mean I think, look, he's
mentioned I have like he's mentioned off to

1529
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:41,119
the side of mine, where like
I have Chet and Paul George and Trey

1530
01:36:41,159 --> 01:36:44,600
Young and Dave Lillard. Like I
don't know who to give my final honorable

1531
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:46,079
mention spot. Oh, I have
Wemby on my fourth team. By the

1532
01:36:46,079 --> 01:36:49,560
way, I forgot how did I
say Chet first? So Chet, Wemby

1533
01:36:50,079 --> 01:36:55,399
and then these last two. I
just you know, you get I you

1534
01:36:55,479 --> 01:36:59,279
As you'll see, there's like fifteen
twenty more guys. I don't have Porzingis

1535
01:36:59,279 --> 01:37:00,720
just because I'm assuming he's not going
to get to the games played. I

1536
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:03,520
don't know what I would do if
he'd, you know, weren't so close.

1537
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:08,520
But I do have Paul George and
I actually have Larry Markinen. Okay,

1538
01:37:10,119 --> 01:37:13,239
so what do you make of Like, should Rudy Gobert be here?

1539
01:37:13,279 --> 01:37:17,159
He's our runaway defensive player of the
year. Yeah, I I don't.

1540
01:37:17,239 --> 01:37:21,239
I don't feel like he was not
a real serious because he like I thought

1541
01:37:21,239 --> 01:37:26,119
about him, but not a super
serious consideration for me, just because I

1542
01:37:26,239 --> 01:37:30,159
kind of think some of the wolves
offensive issues do tie to him. I

1543
01:37:30,159 --> 01:37:34,680
think I think like that that if
you're like he's you know, he has

1544
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:39,520
his uses offensively, but ultimately if
like all the turn the offense is gummed

1545
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:43,039
up and the turnovers are an issue, and like, just I think that's

1546
01:37:43,079 --> 01:37:45,720
a lot of him because it just
still defies logic that Conley, Edwards,

1547
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:50,760
McDaniels and kat like can't find ways
to score unless there's some weird impediment and

1548
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:56,119
I kind of think that might be
Gobert. Yeah, I don't. So

1549
01:37:56,199 --> 01:38:00,680
I thought about Gobert, Paul George, Trey Young, Holmgren, Wemby.

1550
01:38:00,319 --> 01:38:05,560
I I also thought about Pascal Siakam
like popped up in the consideration. I

1551
01:38:05,560 --> 01:38:09,279
mentioned Damian Loward. I think before
I just don't even know I'm gonna let

1552
01:38:09,279 --> 01:38:12,680
you pick. I thought about Derek
white yep here, I thought about Larry

1553
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:15,760
Market, and I thought about Tyrese
Maxie. I'm gonna let you pick who

1554
01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:19,520
I put here. You're deciding who
makes my All NBA fourth team. Give

1555
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:25,199
me like Fox is a consideration.
Fox is a consideration I think I was

1556
01:38:25,239 --> 01:38:27,520
gonna take. If I was gonna
take a King, normally, I would

1557
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:30,479
say I still think Fox is like
a better player, But Sabonis I think

1558
01:38:30,479 --> 01:38:32,000
has had a better season. Fox
is kind of down across a lot of

1559
01:38:32,039 --> 01:38:38,239
categories this season you have to put. Do you not have Paul George?

1560
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:41,359
I think you probably better put Paul
George, all right. I think that's

1561
01:38:41,359 --> 01:38:44,920
fair. He was among them my
long one. I don't like if you

1562
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:47,079
just forced me to choose, I
don't even know who I would choose.

1563
01:38:47,079 --> 01:38:50,039
I wouldn't pick Tray Young. I
think that his like. I feel like

1564
01:38:50,039 --> 01:38:55,399
people have either swung in either direction
too far on him. But he might

1565
01:38:55,399 --> 01:38:58,560
not hit the game's minimum with that
shoulder injury, so I didn't necessarily want

1566
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:00,239
to include him even Chris Tops as
a place holders a little bit dangerous,

1567
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:04,159
Like part of me just's like there's
still something off with Dame Jimmy Butler's not

1568
01:39:04,159 --> 01:39:08,760
gonna at the game's threshold. I
wanted to be spyphone just put your LMB

1569
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:10,840
just to say like, hey,
whatever, that's where we're doing. So

1570
01:39:11,039 --> 01:39:14,600
I'm comfortable you could have told me
anybody I've been like. The only ones

1571
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:16,359
I would have given you pushback on
is if you picked wemby your chet because

1572
01:39:16,359 --> 01:39:19,920
I can't have just one of them
on the floor. Yeah right, yeah,

1573
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:21,920
you that's for sure. If you
picked one and not the other,

1574
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:25,319
you'd be in trouble. Trying to
think of who we haven't mentioned. I

1575
01:39:25,359 --> 01:39:28,279
mean, Kyrie is affected by the
games play, and if you've had gotten

1576
01:39:28,319 --> 01:39:30,439
sixty five out of him, he'd
be in the conversation the way he was

1577
01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:34,159
someone when I was doing like the
statistical work. I know Kyrie's own numbers,

1578
01:39:34,199 --> 01:39:38,119
but looking at the Kitchen Sync metrics, he's someone who he played in

1579
01:39:38,199 --> 01:39:42,920
more games, might have been considered
a statistical lock for a third team all

1580
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:46,079
NBA. We haven't mentioned. I
don't think we mentioned Bam, like he

1581
01:39:46,159 --> 01:39:49,479
didn't make I didn't really think too
hard. But just Jada, But I

1582
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:53,800
think you could talk about if we're
down to like fifteam now, Maxi,

1583
01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:57,520
Zion Ingram Bridges hasn't had a great
year, Scottie Barnes. You know,

1584
01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:00,279
if we're talking about like fifteen or
whatever, that's that's the extent of my

1585
01:40:00,319 --> 01:40:04,760
long list. Yeah, I don't
feel great about my honorable mentions this year.

1586
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:10,079
I said, I feel like Davis
the Bonus and Harden are like the

1587
01:40:10,079 --> 01:40:12,640
ones I and like, by the
way, Harden just continues to pop up

1588
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:15,359
like near all the top of the
catch all metrics and it's He's just it's

1589
01:40:15,399 --> 01:40:20,359
tough because it impacts the team he's
playing with now, definitely impacts the discussion

1590
01:40:20,359 --> 01:40:25,239
around him from a value proposition perspective, but in terms of him just being

1591
01:40:25,279 --> 01:40:28,920
really good and more adaptable, like
you have to tip the cap for most

1592
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:30,560
of the work that he's done in
La I got it. Yeah, I

1593
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:35,039
think I gotta say that maybe we
talked about Toronto Loo a little bit in

1594
01:40:35,079 --> 01:40:40,319
the Coach of the Year discussion.
Two guys that I never thought could change,

1595
01:40:40,359 --> 01:40:43,520
like in a fundamental way are on
this Clippers team. And I think

1596
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:46,159
you can credit Lou for getting them
to be like the best versions of their

1597
01:40:46,199 --> 01:40:50,000
current selves, which is like Russ's
and Harden, like I didn't think I

1598
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:53,359
thought Russ was never going to be
able to change. He kind of has,

1599
01:40:53,399 --> 01:40:56,880
it was reluctant, and Harden is
just like this is as good as

1600
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:00,520
Harden can be right now with his
like current physical skill. And I just

1601
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:03,560
didn't think that he was willing to
be this player just to be like the

1602
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:09,159
facilitating point guard that shoots threes super
accurately and doesn't like do too much.

1603
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:12,760
So I think I think that's a
credit to him. Harden as someone like

1604
01:41:13,359 --> 01:41:15,399
was maybe one of the toughest cuts. I probably had him on like third

1605
01:41:15,399 --> 01:41:18,279
team at some point, and then
I just kind of decided that, you

1606
01:41:18,319 --> 01:41:21,479
know, Brunson needs to be there
over him or something. I will say,

1607
01:41:21,479 --> 01:41:27,239
this kind of reinforced that I'm happy
I do not have an official vote.

1608
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:30,399
Yeah, it's brutal, because this
is a money vote, Like this

1609
01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:32,960
is a I like kind of when
people said that Zach Low gave up his

1610
01:41:33,079 --> 01:41:35,000
vote, I think he did.
He keep his all NBAVO. They said

1611
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:38,359
he gave up his vote because he
don't watch enough basketball anymore, which is

1612
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:42,520
just the bonkers thing to say about
Zach Low. Yeah he doesn't what are

1613
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:45,920
all what are we all doing?
I wouldn't want to have to agonize over

1614
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:48,760
this in terms of impacting a player's
legacy or a contract, And so I

1615
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:53,960
very much like being in our armchairs, our computer chairs and just being incorrect

1616
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:59,479
and it having zero ramifications on us
or other people. Yeah, right,

1617
01:42:00,039 --> 01:42:02,359
are gonna cost someone fifty million dollars
or whatever? Hell urtten's up for?

1618
01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:06,520
Yeah, Edwards, those are the
names that are like because we know that

1619
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:12,039
Jaws, just like that's been that
ship sailed already. Uh, those are

1620
01:42:12,079 --> 01:42:15,279
the ones where it's like both of
them they probably should make it. I

1621
01:42:15,279 --> 01:42:19,399
feel like there might be more of
a debate with Anthony Edwards though, Yeah,

1622
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:21,439
yeah, for sure, because what
is he Well, I guess he

1623
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:24,920
made He made it pretty comfortably for
you. It was harder for me to

1624
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:33,239
put him on there. Wow,
we are onto stat padding, which is

1625
01:42:33,279 --> 01:42:36,239
guess a player. Did you want
to start us off? Thank you for

1626
01:42:36,239 --> 01:42:41,399
everyone who sent us some missions.
Did you want to start us off?

1627
01:42:41,399 --> 01:42:45,760
While I uh change the the the
assets on screen? That's sure, all

1628
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:48,600
right? These are these are as
all well, not as always. I

1629
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:53,439
got three here from from Mike.
It's it's hearnishing, right I kept I

1630
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:56,239
think I said herrenchion first, but
it's hearnishing. Sorry about that. The

1631
01:42:56,239 --> 01:43:00,760
first one. I hope I haven't
done these. I'm pretty sure I haven't.

1632
01:43:01,159 --> 01:43:04,439
You'll if I have and you still
don't get them, then they were

1633
01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:09,720
really good clues, all right.
Clue number one, Dan, I was

1634
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:13,600
drafted in the all time great two
thousand and three drafts. Do you want

1635
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:16,359
to just throw a dart? I
was drafted. You didn't give me a

1636
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:21,119
number? No, just he's in
the three draft? Ok Clue number two.

1637
01:43:21,279 --> 01:43:28,920
I missed my entire rookie season to
surgeries on both shoulders. You have

1638
01:43:29,159 --> 01:43:31,840
a shoulders. Pretty good memory to
remember that one. Yeah, I got

1639
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:34,680
nothing here, all right? Clue
number three. My first season, I

1640
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:38,960
played all eighty two games, starting
four. By the way, I would

1641
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:41,960
play eighty two games twice in my
career. In four times I played more

1642
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:45,600
than eighty games in a season,
So pretty durable despite two wrecked shoulders.

1643
01:43:46,159 --> 01:43:49,680
Still got nothing. Clue four.
By my third season, I became a

1644
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:54,560
starter for more than two thirds of
my team's games. However, every season

1645
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:58,560
afterwards, my team added more young
stars to the rotation. This took away

1646
01:43:58,600 --> 01:44:01,079
starters minutes for me in By two
eleven, I was a full fledged bench

1647
01:44:01,119 --> 01:44:05,880
guy who starts in seventy one games. Oh my god, this is bad

1648
01:44:06,359 --> 01:44:11,199
for you. There's nothing there for
you yet the shoulder thing is the only

1649
01:44:11,319 --> 01:44:15,479
I vaguely remember that, uh Clue
five. By twenty thirteen, I was

1650
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:18,479
largely a benchwarmer. However, I
was the ultimate teammate, something that has

1651
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:24,680
been my legacy with the franchise.
With the franchise, My god, is

1652
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:28,279
it Donnis Haslam? Was he two
thousand and three? It is not you,

1653
01:44:28,359 --> 01:44:31,800
Donnis Haslam, But I will say
you are. You're barking up a

1654
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:36,800
You're in the vicinity of the correct
tree to be barking up. Clue number

1655
01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:42,359
six. I retired in twenty eighteen, having only played with the team that

1656
01:44:42,439 --> 01:44:45,800
drafted me, starting one hundred and
seventy seven out of nine hundred and ten

1657
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:48,800
games, averaging six points a game
and five boards. Should I know this

1658
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:54,479
by now? It's no. I
don't think so. I mean, if

1659
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:58,760
you didn't get the shoulders thing,
and this is a one franchise guy for

1660
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:01,279
a really long time, that was
art as a great teammate. But that.

1661
01:45:01,479 --> 01:45:08,239
That's that's gonna be tough. Uh. Clue seven, You're there's only

1662
01:45:08,239 --> 01:45:12,479
two more clues. So we're in
crunch time here. Gary Payton's number isn't

1663
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:18,000
retired by the team I played for, but mine is. Yeah. I

1664
01:45:18,039 --> 01:45:20,920
did not know this. I did
not know Gary Payton's number is not retired

1665
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:28,079
by this team. That is kind
of nuts. It's not retired by that

1666
01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:31,239
team, so is it? Oh? Oh my god, Nick Collison,

1667
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:36,279
you got it, Nick Collison,
good job. Number eight Masonics Thunder and

1668
01:45:36,319 --> 01:45:40,680
that's how I got there. Number
eight was Kenrich. Williams is viewed as

1669
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:45,640
the next me by the organization.
You really Williams is a superstar. Maybe

1670
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:48,560
not so much of the season,
but that's right. I am Nick Collison.

1671
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:51,760
I'm pretty sure I haven't done that
one before. No, I mean

1672
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:56,720
I didn't if I didn't remember it
after that? All right? You want

1673
01:45:56,720 --> 01:46:00,600
another one? Yeah? You want
to do You want to do three each?

1674
01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:02,800
Well I have, Yeah, you
want to alternate. You want to

1675
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,720
give me an alternate, so I
have. I'll do one from We have

1676
01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:10,000
some from Bill, we have some
from Mike. This one's from Mike.

1677
01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:14,159
Okay, Clue one, I was
a number one pick in the nineteen nineties.

1678
01:46:16,119 --> 01:46:18,399
Okay, I'm not gonna guess you
well, I got what have I

1679
01:46:18,399 --> 01:46:21,560
got a number one overall or does
like number one? So you're only talking

1680
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:30,119
about what ten drafts? Uh?
Why am I blanking on top overall picks

1681
01:46:30,119 --> 01:46:34,399
in the nineties, Tim Duncan,
No, Okay, I was not one

1682
01:46:34,439 --> 01:46:40,279
of the good ones. Oh hmmm, who's a really big bust in the

1683
01:46:40,399 --> 01:46:43,640
nineties? This is bad. I
can sometimes I can tell if my brain's

1684
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:45,039
not working very well. It feels
like this is one of those days.

1685
01:46:45,159 --> 01:46:48,039
So he's a bust number one overall
pick from the nineties. Go ahead,

1686
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:53,359
Clue three. I famously told Kareem
Abdul Jabbar that he was disrespecting my game

1687
01:46:53,399 --> 01:46:58,920
when my team brought him in to
be a mentor for me. My team

1688
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:02,199
brought him in to be a menu
tour for me. Glenn Robinson, No,

1689
01:47:03,239 --> 01:47:06,119
Clue four. I probably shouldn't have
done that, because he then became

1690
01:47:06,119 --> 01:47:12,479
an assistant coach and labeled me as
as talented but unculturable. Oh my god.

1691
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:15,880
I should just be able to go
through number one picks from the nineties,

1692
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:21,800
right, I feel like maybe is
it? Derek Coleman no, he

1693
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:26,479
was an eighties number one pick.
I think, okay, Clue five.

1694
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:29,800
After that self inflicted mess, I
was traded to Minnesota to team up with

1695
01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:32,119
Kevin Garnett, who was more than
happy to put up with my crap.

1696
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:36,119
Just kidding. He didn't like me
either. I should get it right now.

1697
01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:44,359
A number one pick from the nineties
that played with Kevin Garnett. I

1698
01:47:44,399 --> 01:47:47,399
mean it's not. I want to
say Darko because he played for the Wolves,

1699
01:47:47,399 --> 01:47:50,159
but he's not the number one overall
pick he was. He was also

1700
01:47:50,239 --> 01:47:53,760
drafted in two thousand and three.
Oh right, yeah, that's stupid,

1701
01:47:55,159 --> 01:47:58,920
gosh, I should get this.
Who was a number one pick that played

1702
01:47:59,399 --> 01:48:02,800
with Kevin garn It in Minnesota?
This is embarrassing, No, I mean

1703
01:48:03,159 --> 01:48:06,119
the name, Like if you were
just gonna take stabs at number one picks,

1704
01:48:06,119 --> 01:48:10,439
then yeah, but especially if they
were bus Clue six. I was

1705
01:48:10,479 --> 01:48:14,119
suspended by the Timberwolves for two games
after I was arrested for refusing to leave

1706
01:48:14,159 --> 01:48:17,880
an Indianapolis nightclub. I didn't not
know. So if you know this,

1707
01:48:18,279 --> 01:48:23,079
kudos to you. Is it Joe
Smith? It is not. He was

1708
01:48:23,119 --> 01:48:28,239
a number one pick too. I
think what was the end? Sorry?

1709
01:48:28,319 --> 01:48:30,720
I decided it was Joe Smith.
While you were reading the clue. What

1710
01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:32,960
was that clue again? I was
suspended by the Wolves for two games after

1711
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:40,720
I was arrested for refusing to leave
an Indianapolis nightclub. It's Michael ola Kandi,

1712
01:48:41,239 --> 01:48:45,000
that is correct. The final two
clues were I was also suspended for

1713
01:48:45,039 --> 01:48:48,720
fighting Nana and I was traded with
while you Serbiak to the Celtics for Ricky

1714
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:54,079
Davis and bench fodder, where I
finished out my incredibly underwhelming career, averaging

1715
01:48:54,119 --> 01:48:57,319
eight and six and five hundred career
games. Man, I should have just

1716
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:00,640
I should have just gone with the
busts from the nineties that would have got

1717
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:05,039
to him eventually. Okay, that
was too many clues. Okay, no

1718
01:49:05,319 --> 01:49:10,159
a number. Guess a player number
two for you? Clue number one.

1719
01:49:10,479 --> 01:49:12,640
Actually, I should look and see
who this is. Okay, Now I

1720
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:16,079
know. I was drafted by the
Raptors but traded on draft Day for Jermaine

1721
01:49:16,079 --> 01:49:24,199
O'Neil Ooh. I was drafted by
the Raptors. I got nothing. Go

1722
01:49:24,239 --> 01:49:27,560
ahead, I did not know that
number two. In my second season,

1723
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:30,960
I averaged one point six blocks a
game. A beacon of things to come,

1724
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:38,000
sweet a shot blocker number three.
By year four, I was averaging

1725
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:40,760
two blocks a game, was a
first time All Star, and had a

1726
01:49:40,760 --> 01:49:44,760
playoff game in which I had nine
blocks. This season got me a nice

1727
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:51,960
four for fifty eight million dollar contract, Eric Dan Pierre. No, let's

1728
01:49:51,960 --> 01:49:55,279
see, yeah, I guess.
I guess you don't really have the year

1729
01:49:55,439 --> 01:50:00,439
yet. But four for fifty eight
gives you sick. You know, it's

1730
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:03,520
fairly modern because guys weren't making that
much that long ago. Clue number four.

1731
01:50:04,119 --> 01:50:08,359
In the first year of that contract, I broke the franchise record for

1732
01:50:08,399 --> 01:50:12,119
blocks in a game with eleven,
en route to another All Star selection and

1733
01:50:12,159 --> 01:50:15,159
coming in second in Defensive Player of
the Year voting. But that postseason I

1734
01:50:15,199 --> 01:50:19,399
set the record for most scoreless playoff
games by a current All Star with four.

1735
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:30,399
Oh my god, that's not that's
a good clue. Scoreless by an

1736
01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:36,119
All Star, the second, second
in Defensive Player of the Year getting No,

1737
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:42,439
that's a good guess though, Oh, keep going all right. Clue

1738
01:50:42,479 --> 01:50:45,359
five. That offseason, the wheels
started to come off. First Andrew Bynham

1739
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:48,479
was brought in to give me extra
incentive to play my best, but it

1740
01:50:48,520 --> 01:50:53,119
messed with my head. Then it
was rumored the team's star player was sleeping

1741
01:50:53,159 --> 01:50:56,159
with my fiance did not know this, but he and I quashed the rumors

1742
01:50:56,199 --> 01:51:00,119
by going fishing together. True story. Andrew bidam he brought in to give

1743
01:51:00,159 --> 01:51:08,760
me a good influence. Why am
I not? No Smush Parker. No,

1744
01:51:08,760 --> 01:51:11,239
No, he was never an All
Star. Please disregard that it never

1745
01:51:11,279 --> 01:51:16,439
had eleven blocks in a playoff game
either. CLU six. The following season

1746
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:19,199
went poorly for me, the team, and everyone around it. I took

1747
01:51:19,239 --> 01:51:23,399
my player options, selling my team's
plans for free agency. When the cap

1748
01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:27,239
spiked, they traded me to the
Lakers two weeks later for a second round

1749
01:51:27,279 --> 01:51:36,960
pick four years in the future.
Nothing. So this guy goes from second

1750
01:51:38,079 --> 01:51:42,920
in Defensive Player of the Year blocking
along Roy Hibbert. Correct, it is

1751
01:51:43,039 --> 01:51:46,399
Roy Hbbert. That was a little
really like because we were both working for

1752
01:51:46,479 --> 01:51:51,640
br when Hibbert was happening, and
then like he just talk about wrong place,

1753
01:51:51,680 --> 01:51:55,600
wrong time, because like within a
year it was like you can't play

1754
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:58,640
this type of player anymore, and
but he was like dominant. He was

1755
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:02,319
the Pacers, which ended his career. Basically, that's right, that's right.

1756
01:52:02,319 --> 01:52:05,079
We parol Antis, by the way, who has been a GUESSA player

1757
01:52:05,119 --> 01:52:11,760
before all right, good clues.
All of yours were from Mike, right,

1758
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:15,119
I have I have one more from
Mike, so that'll be three total.

1759
01:52:15,239 --> 01:52:16,800
Yeah, all right, so I'll
do two. I'll we'll alternate to

1760
01:52:16,840 --> 01:52:19,720
me and I'll do my two from
b Rich. I'll do one from be

1761
01:52:19,880 --> 01:52:21,920
Rich and then you can do Mike. Then we'll do the last one from

1762
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:26,520
be Rich. Okay. Clue one. A non lottery first round pick in

1763
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:30,640
two thousand and five. I played
for eight teams in twelve seasons. Okay,

1764
01:52:31,319 --> 01:52:33,199
in two thousand and seven, two
thousand and eight, I had the

1765
01:52:33,239 --> 01:52:39,000
pleasure of for fifty one games being
teammates with Greg Buckner. We went eleven

1766
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:43,399
and forty one together and combined started
four games. Buckner started all four.

1767
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:46,079
I don't know where Greg Buckner is
in two thousand and seven. Eight.

1768
01:52:46,079 --> 01:52:49,399
If we've established anything, it's that
we don't know anything about Greg Buckner.

1769
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:54,439
We just need to like read up
on Greg but Buckner before the next podcast

1770
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:58,119
that we can get any GUESSA player
that might be tangentially related to them.

1771
01:52:58,479 --> 01:53:00,000
Clue three. I'm one of the
few players in NBA history to take a

1772
01:53:00,039 --> 01:53:05,439
two year hiatus early in my career
to play pro ball in Russia. Oh

1773
01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:14,159
drafted outside the lottery in OH five
five, goes to play for two years

1774
01:53:14,199 --> 01:53:20,119
in Russia and played with Greg Buckner. Of course I can't, okay,

1775
01:53:20,159 --> 01:53:25,319
so I don't. I don't have
it Clue four. A late bloomer.

1776
01:53:25,399 --> 01:53:29,640
My best NBA season was with the
Suns in twenty thirteen twenty fourteen, when

1777
01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:33,000
I averaged close to sixteen points per
game and shot forty percent from three while

1778
01:53:33,039 --> 01:53:39,199
starting forty eight games, which was
a career high. Thirteen fourteen sons.

1779
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:45,000
Yes, outside the lottery, OH
five thirteen fourteen son, What are the

1780
01:53:45,039 --> 01:53:49,279
stats again for that year? Sixteen
points on forty percent from three? Oh,

1781
01:53:49,319 --> 01:53:54,560
that doesn't doesn't tell me rebounds or
assists. It was on the thirteen

1782
01:53:54,640 --> 01:54:04,760
fourteen Suns that played in Russia.
H don't have it, okay Clue five.

1783
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:08,439
Like Rudy Gay, I was a
contestant in the two thousand and eight

1784
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:12,000
Dunk Contest but did not win.
Some say I was robbed as one of

1785
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:17,399
my dunks involved a common dessert at
kid birthday parties? Is this Gerald Green?

1786
01:54:18,199 --> 01:54:20,439
It is? Okay? I mean, if I don't get it on

1787
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:26,119
that clue, that's ridiculous, and
then his final clue, which he said

1788
01:54:26,199 --> 01:54:30,199
is for use after the answer is
revealed in further proof that basketball referenced similarity

1789
01:54:30,239 --> 01:54:34,239
scores are nonsense. My most similar
player is Brian Shaw. Yeah, give

1790
01:54:34,279 --> 01:54:41,680
me the most athletic player of all
time in the least, all right.

1791
01:54:42,079 --> 01:54:45,960
I do love Jerald Green. All
right. This is the last one here

1792
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:49,560
from Mike uh Okay, now I
know who it is. Clue number one.

1793
01:54:49,640 --> 01:54:53,039
I was a top ten pick in
two thousand and eight. I want

1794
01:54:53,039 --> 01:54:56,600
to take a stab at that one
in two thousand and eight and was a

1795
01:54:56,640 --> 01:55:05,720
top ten pick. No, I
don't want to think it known that,

1796
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:09,920
all right. Clue number two.
At the time, I was seen as

1797
01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:13,159
the NBA's next best shooting guard,
and in my first three years I was

1798
01:55:13,199 --> 01:55:16,119
already being called Kobe's air apparent for
that label. I'm not sure who was

1799
01:55:16,279 --> 01:55:20,800
saying these things. Yeah, I
don't remember that happening around two thousand and

1800
01:55:20,880 --> 01:55:25,039
eight, so please carry on.
Clu three. I was part of a

1801
01:55:25,239 --> 01:55:29,479
very famous trade that's too obvious to
name without giving it away. I got

1802
01:55:29,560 --> 01:55:32,880
hurt almost right away with that team, and the injury bug bit me continuously

1803
01:55:32,920 --> 01:55:36,439
for the better part of a half
decade where I only hit sixty five games

1804
01:55:36,479 --> 01:55:42,560
in a season once. Yeah,
I got nothing, all right? Clue

1805
01:55:42,560 --> 01:55:45,520
four. In twenty sixteen, I
found my footing again in the league as

1806
01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:49,960
a sixth man on the what is
a two point shot Houston Rockets? Ah?

1807
01:55:50,039 --> 01:55:57,319
What year twenty sixteen? Finds his
footing twenty sixteen? You know the

1808
01:55:57,399 --> 01:56:00,000
Kobe clue has thrown me off because
I'm thinking about that team. Disregard the

1809
01:56:00,079 --> 01:56:03,560
Kobe clue. I think I think
that's that's gonna hurt you. Okay,

1810
01:56:04,239 --> 01:56:14,720
M sixth man on that Rockets team
and part of a trade. That's that

1811
01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:16,319
like you, if you were told
who else was in the trade, you

1812
01:56:16,319 --> 01:56:24,760
would probably get him. Did they
say what year that trade was made?

1813
01:56:25,319 --> 01:56:28,880
No? But he was drafted in
O eight and then in and then is

1814
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:31,199
hurt like forever, and then in
twenty sixteen, like finds the spot with

1815
01:56:31,279 --> 01:56:35,439
these Rockets. I should know.
That's the clue that I should know,

1816
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:43,239
And I got I got nothing,
all right? Not the kebab ute,

1817
01:56:43,399 --> 01:56:46,279
is it? No? The next
clue? Well, okay, in twenty

1818
01:56:46,319 --> 01:56:48,840
eight Clue five. In twenty eighteen, I was one of the Rockets that

1819
01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:55,560
missed several threes in the infamous twenty
seven missed in a row game. PJ

1820
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:58,720
Tucker was heire? Then? I
think he was there, but it is

1821
01:56:58,720 --> 01:57:01,840
not PJ. Tucker. This is
a shooting guard. Remember shooting guard Trevor

1822
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:10,880
Reson wasn't a shooting guard. Oh, Eric Gordon correct, Yeah, I

1823
01:57:10,920 --> 01:57:14,680
guess that's why I was. I
was thinking about that the entire time.

1824
01:57:15,199 --> 01:57:18,439
I'm sure somebody compared him to Kobe. Mike's gonna have to get on Discord

1825
01:57:18,479 --> 01:57:24,520
and uh show some receipts on who
was calling Eric Gordon the next Kobe Just

1826
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:28,000
for fun. Clue six. That
was my last healthy season in Houston,

1827
01:57:28,000 --> 01:57:30,399
as I played sixty three combined games
the next two seasons. Then James Harden

1828
01:57:30,439 --> 01:57:33,760
got traded, and over time I
was the last vestige remaining from the Derrilmory

1829
01:57:33,880 --> 01:57:38,159
Rockets. Clu seven spent all of
my twenty two twenty three time with the

1830
01:57:38,239 --> 01:57:41,920
Rockets, refusing to mentor the young
players until I was traded at the deadline.

1831
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:45,800
Oh what. Clue eight, I
played Michael Jordan's kid in Space Jam

1832
01:57:46,279 --> 01:57:48,920
What I did not know that.
That's a hell of a clue, Mike.

1833
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:53,960
I didn't know that either. That's
incredible. The clue I would have

1834
01:57:54,039 --> 01:57:57,079
included, I mean, you can't
because I think it's the Chris Paul trade

1835
01:57:57,119 --> 01:58:00,239
that he's talking about. The other
other hate this player would have been a

1836
01:58:00,279 --> 01:58:02,880
good one. Well, yeah,
the thing where what was it like?

1837
01:58:03,199 --> 01:58:08,439
He was it New Orleans way to
Phoenix as a restricted free agent? That's

1838
01:58:08,479 --> 01:58:12,399
what it was. Yeah, okay, Eric Gordon. Uh fun fact one

1839
01:58:12,439 --> 01:58:15,479
of Eric Gordon's nicknames on b ball
references the hobbit. I think I actually

1840
01:58:15,560 --> 01:58:25,479
knew that. That's fucked up.
All right, final one of this this

1841
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:28,239
batch. Thank you be Rich and
Mike for sending them again. If you

1842
01:58:28,239 --> 01:58:31,319
have more, send them to Grant
or I shout out to Rubikscal, Mike

1843
01:58:31,359 --> 01:58:34,680
and be Rich who consistently do them. Let's get some more people involved in

1844
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:39,399
it. Okay, Grant, are
you in the mind of a sociopath?

1845
01:58:40,319 --> 01:58:44,520
I think it's psychopath, but I've
been getting stumped. I'm in the mind

1846
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:46,359
of just yeah, whatever of mind
I need to be in. I'm ready.

1847
01:58:46,439 --> 01:58:49,079
Yeah. Well, I hope this
one gets you because you're still kind

1848
01:58:49,079 --> 01:58:53,680
of messed up for on stat Pat
and getting me with the the Lebron and

1849
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:57,960
Kobe thing where they both had zero
five by four games or whatever? Is

1850
01:58:58,000 --> 01:59:00,760
that a hint should I take saying
I want you to get this wrong because

1851
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:04,640
you're a sociopath? Or got it? Okay? Clue one. A two

1852
01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:09,279
thousand and five second rounder. My
draft pick was traded three times prior to

1853
01:59:09,319 --> 01:59:13,119
me being drafted, one of which
included the immortal Tim Thomas. So one

1854
01:59:13,159 --> 01:59:16,359
of those trades included Tim Thomas.
Yeah, okay, I'm not getting that

1855
01:59:16,439 --> 01:59:19,680
one. I would if Tim Thomas
is out there, let me know how

1856
01:59:19,680 --> 01:59:23,159
you trained your delts back in the
day, because you had some pretty big

1857
01:59:23,159 --> 01:59:26,840
as shoulders. Uh. Clu two. I played for seven teams across ten

1858
01:59:26,880 --> 01:59:30,880
seasons, primarily as an off the
bench big man, off the bench big

1859
01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:38,600
man second rounder from five traded a
lot. Would you say? Seven seasons?

1860
01:59:38,640 --> 01:59:42,640
That's it? Seven teams in ten
seasons. Seven teams and ten seasons.

1861
01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:45,239
Okay, so he's done by fifteen? All right, what does the

1862
01:59:45,279 --> 01:59:48,560
next clue? Please? Clue three. In my third season, my storied

1863
01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:53,039
franchise lost in the finals. During
that playoff run, I averaged ten minutes

1864
01:59:53,039 --> 01:59:55,840
per game off the bench and had
an effective you'll goal percentage of thirty eight

1865
01:59:55,880 --> 02:00:03,680
point ninet His third season, so
we're in eight, loses in the finals

1866
02:00:03,680 --> 02:00:09,880
in eight? What is that Celtics? The Celtics. Oh you just told

1867
02:00:09,920 --> 02:00:14,039
me of the team? Oh sorry, no, it just like the champion

1868
02:00:14,119 --> 02:00:15,880
of that year was the Celtics.
I was gonna say, it's the lakers

1869
02:00:15,960 --> 02:00:19,640
of the Celtics. I can't remember
who was in there. Uh okay,

1870
02:00:19,880 --> 02:00:27,279
a big guy that got traded a
lot drafted. Oh five? Oh wait

1871
02:00:27,399 --> 02:00:30,720
yeah? Five? So six,
seven, eight, we were the numbers

1872
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:31,920
again. I don't know why it
would help me, but ten minutes per

1873
02:00:31,920 --> 02:00:35,960
game with an effective field goal percentage
of thirty eight nine. Okay, what's

1874
02:00:36,000 --> 02:00:40,279
the next clue? Clue for one? My best season was my fifth season,

1875
02:00:40,279 --> 02:00:43,239
when I averaged six points and five
boards in twenty one minutes per game.

1876
02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:46,520
I was subsequently traded along with Colonne
as a bouquet Anthony Randolph and a

1877
02:00:46,520 --> 02:00:51,479
second round pick for David Knee.
Oh okay, so it's a warrior guy

1878
02:00:51,600 --> 02:01:02,279
going to the Knicks. That was
on Who the hell else went? God,

1879
02:01:02,359 --> 02:01:08,359
damn it, it's a way I
still have enough on. So he

1880
02:01:08,479 --> 02:01:14,199
was a Laker. I guess that
became a warrior that went to the Knicks.

1881
02:01:14,720 --> 02:01:18,039
That was a big guy and it
was a journeyman. This is God

1882
02:01:18,119 --> 02:01:21,159
damn it. This is so diable, Like I hate that. Like Bill

1883
02:01:21,239 --> 02:01:27,159
is so good at picking players that
I definitely know, but are like just

1884
02:01:27,199 --> 02:01:30,800
obscure enough that I can't get there. There's one more clue. When I

1885
02:01:30,840 --> 02:01:32,439
think this, based off what it
says, I think you're gonna get it.

1886
02:01:32,720 --> 02:01:36,119
Oh well, then I'd like to
get it before that. I just

1887
02:01:36,119 --> 02:01:42,800
can't remember who else went with with
as a bookie Randolph and who else for

1888
02:01:42,840 --> 02:01:47,239
the second round pick for a day
and the second round pick for David Lee.

1889
02:01:47,560 --> 02:01:53,079
Uh, it's not Ikedagu, it's
not Patrick. No. I keep

1890
02:01:53,159 --> 02:01:56,520
thinking of like warriors, big guys
that were stiffs. Okay, what's the

1891
02:01:56,600 --> 02:02:00,680
last Clough clue? Number five,
fifth and final one four four year star

1892
02:02:00,199 --> 02:02:03,600
for a w c C Powerhouse.
One of my claims to fame was cooking

1893
02:02:03,640 --> 02:02:09,479
lasagna in the kitchen of a packed
frat house during the PA Clara, entertaining

1894
02:02:09,560 --> 02:02:15,199
dozens, including freshman Adam Morrison with
stories about dating French girls. Oh as

1895
02:02:15,239 --> 02:02:19,119
I recall this guy. Also,
I think he put ranch on spaghetti or

1896
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:27,479
something. This is Ronney turry Off. God glad to hate yourself though,

1897
02:02:27,520 --> 02:02:31,520
because that's what I really did.
I'm trying to think now he's good at

1898
02:02:31,560 --> 02:02:35,600
making the clues, like, Okay, that's help this exercise. I hope

1899
02:02:35,600 --> 02:02:43,239
the listeners enjoy it because we feel
like shitf go through it right. There's

1900
02:02:43,520 --> 02:02:47,359
there was a clues about a big
center and shot blocking and was made an

1901
02:02:47,399 --> 02:02:50,640
All Star game, and I said
Smush Parker. A lot of people confused

1902
02:02:50,720 --> 02:02:54,880
Roy Hibbert and Smush Parker. To
be fair, what if, oh man,

1903
02:02:55,159 --> 02:02:58,079
there'd be some great Smush Parker clues
if anyone ever did those. But

1904
02:02:58,079 --> 02:03:01,279
now we're going to be on the
lookout for Smush Parker before you go win

1905
02:03:01,359 --> 02:03:03,600
your CrossFit open. Would you like
to take us out of here? I

1906
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:06,640
would love to take us out.
Thanks everybody for listening, Thanks for your

1907
02:03:08,520 --> 02:03:12,600
submissions for guests a player. We
really do got to get that discord thing

1908
02:03:12,640 --> 02:03:15,960
going for for all NBA. I'm
super curious to see, like if we

1909
02:03:15,000 --> 02:03:18,159
could get some kind of consensus we
would like because I don't want people to

1910
02:03:18,479 --> 02:03:21,760
you don't want to vote and then
have it locked in. Maybe sometime in

1911
02:03:21,800 --> 02:03:25,079
April, at the start of April, because there's like only two weeks after

1912
02:03:25,159 --> 02:03:28,079
the regular season. I'll do a
crowdsourcing and that could be part of our

1913
02:03:28,319 --> 02:03:30,640
That'll be a good way to differentiate
from what we just did to to include

1914
02:03:30,640 --> 02:03:33,439
what our listens. So, hey, Leo, get grand plugging the discord,

1915
02:03:33,479 --> 02:03:36,960
proud of you. Get involved if
you'd like to figure out how to

1916
02:03:38,039 --> 02:03:42,600
join our discord and or get some
merch links for that YouTube and podcast description,

1917
02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:45,239
rate, review, subscribe, follow, tell your friends you know,

1918
02:03:45,680 --> 02:03:51,239
just help us grow this podcast.
We're grateful for the viewers and listeners we

1919
02:03:51,279 --> 02:03:55,119
have. We would just like to
have as many as we possibly can,

1920
02:03:55,279 --> 02:03:59,239
so you can help us do that
by spreading the word. I think that's

1921
02:03:59,279 --> 02:04:02,359
going to cover it. We close
this always with a shout out to the

1922
02:04:02,359 --> 02:04:04,720
one and only Frank Milkina an apology
to Jared