What is krack Alack In Hardwar Knocks listeners, I am Damn Valley coming out
you once more without my fantabulous co host Adam Brommel. I am, however,
continuously excited to keep our team a look ahead train on the role.
The New Orleans Pelicans are next up on the docket. Shama Dua from the
In the No podcast, a fellow Blue Wire podcast, was kind enough to
come on and speak with me about this team. There's lots of talk about.
He's also the lead writer for Bourbon Street Shots and he is as well
a contributor to w d SU. Follow him on Twitter at Fear the Brown
spelled exactly as it sounds. He's been a great follow all off season with
a lot of the off court drama stuff that's been going on. So highly
recommend you follow him, just like I highly recommend you follow all of our
guests. Before we cannonball, bellyflop dive into a bunch of Pelicans talk.
Please let me remind you to continue rating, reviewing, and subscribing to Hardwin
Knox wherever you get your podcasts down every episode is a huge way to help
us in the charts. Also, whether you use iTunes or not we asked
that you had over to iTunes. If you have access to it search Hardwood
Knox. Throw us that five star rating and also write a review, even
if you're criticizing us, because that helps us a ton. So long again
as you throw us to five star rating. Two. If this is your
first time listening to this podcast, maybe you're a Pelicans fan, maybe you
stumbled upon us randomly, whatever, consider throwing us that permanent subscription. We
cover the league at large and a pleasantly sub mediocre, modestly insufferable fashion.
We can be followed on Twitter at Hardwood Knox. We're on YouTube go to
YouTube dot coms or Hardwood Knox subscribe to our channel. We're on Instagram as
well at Hardwood Underscore Knox. Without any further delay, let's get to some
super deep, thorough New Orleans Pelicans talk with Shamon Dua from the In the
No podcast, among many other places. Shammon, thank you so much for
coming back on the Hardwood Knox podcast to talk New Orleans Pelicans with me.
There is pretty much nothing going on with this team, right They've been pretty
boring, I think before we get started, though, in all serious says,
how are you doing? Hey, thank you for having me, and
I'm doing I'm doing okay. Could be better, you know, if the
Pelicans had non interesting news, I would be better. But seeing us there
and the Pelicans, there's always something up and and yeah, I'm sure we're
going to dive them into that very soon. I think my first question for
you is, has David Griffin tried to play piano in your house at all?
You know, that'd be pretty awesome if you did, because I'm a
big fan of live music entertainment, and if Griff, you know, felt
the need to show off his piano skills, play a few chords here and
there, maybe some Mozart, it could be good for the atmosphere. I
did appreciate NION's answer when he was asked about that though I'm not letting a
grown man play piano in my room or whatever he said. I thought that
was funny. Yeah. So the Pelicans offseason, I think they got a
ton of flak from the national media in general, and I think even at
least at the beginning, it seemed like fans were really angry with them,
I would assume in large part because they go through the motions of clearing cap
space presumably for a Kyle Awry or maybe a Chris Paul Chase, and you
don't end up with either of those two after, you know, looking at
those moves in some losing Lonzo Ball but getting you on his now chu and
as having DeVante Graham looking at their additions, their subtractions now that everything has
had time to marinate. Do you just have any general thoughts or impressions about
the off season that are sticking with you that you want to get off your
chest as we head into the regular season. Yeah, for sure. I
mean, I think it's pretty interesting to sort of see the national perspective on
the Pelicans offseason kind of flip in terms of what the reaction was when things
were going down August one, and then you know what the reaction is now
that things have had a chance to simmer down and we're headed into the preseason
or the regular season in the preseason's currently going on. And so while the
initial reaction, like you mentioned, was like pretty strongly negative, and now
it seems like a lot of these writers and media personalities stuff come around on
the players, come around on I guess Zion ironically, and some of the
fits that some of the some of the fits that the Pelicans added the summer.
So I you know, I think my initial approach was a little bit
in the middle of that. It's like, Okay, they I think they
brought in some better fits in terms of Jonas Valanciunas, I think Devonte Graham's
gonna fit pretty nicely with Diane and Brandon Ingram. You know, I do
question I do question the defense of this team. I do question the guard
rotation of this team in general. And so that's going to be a story
like storyline to watch going forward into the season. But you know, I've
always thought that the ceiling of this team is going to depend on how good
they're too old are and if they are, if they're really good players.
You know, if if Zion is supposed to be a top ten player,
then they have everything you need on the roster to make the playoffs. And
if he's not a top ten player, well then you know, the question
can be asked like, Okay, well, what's going to happen with this
team? And likewise, is Brandon Ingram, you know, if he if
he continues to improve at the rate he's been improven, and you know,
he solidifies himself as a top I don't know, twenty to thirty players,
and you have two of those type of guys. You shouldn't struggle to make
the playoffs. You just shouldn't. And so yeah, I mean, I
think I think it depends more on them than it does on everything else.
I was pretty and what the fuck mode as everything was unfolding for them,
And when we went back and I did like our off season grades a month
through whatever ago, I think I wound up in the middle like you,
And I think one of their biggest things that they did is the non Zion
minutes look like they're going to be better, and I think DeVante Graham is
a chance to give them more of a traditional floor general dynamic than Lonzo Ball.
I just felt like they went through a lot of motions and nastics and
and just stuff, unnecessary stuff to make what could eventually be like a lateral
move because I don't know that they're a bona fide playoff team. It did
when you just look at like in real time, though, it was very
easy to sort of overreact and be like, this is franchise mal practice what
they're doing. Yeah, I mean, look, I think part of it
was that there is all these expectations built up. Oh my gosh, like
they're they're one of the favorites for Kyle Lowry. Oh, they're in hot
pursuit for Kyle Lowry. Oh they you know, they offered Chris Paul a
pretty big deal, like you know, like those were the words coming out
of all like the National reporters, right. And then at the same time,
you have this polarizing figure in Lonzo Ball, who you know, when
when games are going on, people will make fun of him, and then
you know, the off season is here, all of a sudden, he's
this massive piece that the Pelicans lost, and so in conjunction of not securing
one of those those name players and losing Lonzo, it was just sort of
like, uh, what are the Pelican is doing? They did create all
this cap and they did nothing with it, and you know, it's not
like they use it to gain picks, and because you know, they spent
picks. They spent picks creating the cap. They spent picks. They spent
a pick to get de Monte Graham and so in the moment you're you're absolutely
And it's funny because David Griffin was like, oh, well, this is
just part of our tapestry of moves, and it's like, all right,
dude, you're actually doing here and then, but you know, I think
you hit on the key point heres is. I think this year they are
more sustainable with their non Zion and a large part of that is his val
shooters. I mean that news the beast who's apparently in their eyes the way
they promoted it, like this three point marksman. All of a sudden,
who's gonna take It's probably good that they got better than non Zion minutes because
there's no way that he's gonna be ready for the regular season. Correct with
that? Do we call it like a covert right fracture, right foot fracture?
I don't what else you would call it. I mean, it just
appeared on the radar media day. No one knew about it. It happened
months ago, supposedly, and all of a sudden, we're like, oh,
yeah, he has a return to play protocol? What does that mean
for what? And oh, he has surgery? And now you know,
both David Griffin and Zion went on record that day they were like, yeah,
we'll be ready for Game one, and then now we are six days
away from the first game and they're waiting on scans. He hasn't started running
yet, and David Griffin is set to give an update sometime this week,
and David Griffin updates with Zion injuries are never good. They are never good.
I don't know if they're necessarily full of information or you can lean anything
from them, but you just look at all of them, they're never good.
I hate getting into this because I feel like I don't want to make
fans of small market teams like I'm attacking them. But I do think the
noise surrounding Zion's dissatisfaction is important in the sense of, do you think it
will impact like what this team does over the next year plush plus excuse me,
with the urgency with which they're trying to build out the rest of their
core, or do you think And maybe it's in large part because a lot
of this is, you know, built on the assumption that hey, maybe
he's that player as signed the qualifying offer because it's going to be so large.
I then look at this latest right foot fracture and I'm like, I
know his qualifying offer will be like seventeen million or whatever it is. But
given his injury history, like, is that something he's going on to do?
So I'm just curious, basically, how do you think all this Zion
noise impacts what they're going to do or the urgency with which they're going to
build this roster, flesh out this roster moving forward. That is such a
good question, and I'm not sure anyone has the right answer to that.
What I suspect is going to happen is I think you're right. I think
he's going to take the money when it's presented in front of him. I
think at one point I believed he would take something like a two plus one
and wait out for the new cap and then you know, he can get
even more money that way. But I think at this point, given that
foot injury, he just takes the money. If he stays relatively healthy,
he should make all MBA's fourth years so they'll be eligible for that super dupermax
that Rose rule thing, and and I think that's hard to turn down.
And if he truly wants to be elsewhere, stars these days just have the
power to do that. They can just say, Okay, I want to
be elsewhere, and if you don't trade me, you know, we can
make things messy, as we're kind of seeing play out in Philadelphia to a
lesser extent with Ben Simmons, I know, slightly different circumstances, but you
know, stars have done this. They have the power. In Zion has
that power to make things ugly. And with regards to how they're going to
build around him, you have, I mean, as long as he's on
the roster, you have. You owe it to yourself to build around a
talent like that because he represents the single best chance for you to become a
contender. He represents a single best pass pathway for you to make the playoffs,
and you know, uphold your end of the bargain to the fans and
and like the community to put a good team out there, and to ownership
as well. So like from a financial standpoint, from a wind standpoint,
or anything else, like Zion has all of this power that getting Sert over
the franchise because he is he is that guy. He can he can do
those things. The issue here is that he hasn't done those things yet.
And and now you know, there's questions about his availability on the court,
there's questions about you know, this sort of commitment to the team in general,
because you know, there was David Griffin likes to point out about how
Zion wasn't at the volunteering workouts with the Pelicans in the summer because he was
hurt rehabbing. Okay, that's fine, but why weren't you at all these
other things? And so why were you at Duke Krett Parks during the day?
And it's like, you know, so it's it's I think it's fair
to ask. It's like, I understand, from a business standpoint, Hey,
this guy is an amazing talent, and when he's on the court,
he's like this historically dominant force, particularly at the rim. So you gotta
do what you gotta do to keep that around and keep it happy. But
when it when it comes to it's everything else. Un then, where is
there a line in the stand that you draw? And we've we've seen the
Sixers draw a line in the stand, We've seen the Nets draw line in
the sand. And so I don't do I think the Pelicans have reached the
sort of threshold with Zion. No, but I do wonder if we're going
to see that point in the future. At some point. This will be
my non, my last non basketball related question with Zion is there like should
this team be watching sort of what happens with Ben Simmons because it's a different
situation. But in theory, if Ben Simmons succeeds in kind of forcing his
way out of Philly one year into an extension, that's something a path Zion
could technically try to follow if he is indeed unhappy. Yeah, I think
the whole league is watching the Ben Simmons situation playout, and I think I
think, yeah, I think, you know, like owners and management are
probably like rooting for the Sixers here and rooting for every time they find him,
which is fine, And then there's probably a lot of agents and players
keenly watching this situation playout saying like, okay, like what can we learn
from this, How how can we approach it when it comes our time to
do something like this? And I think it's pretty loud and clear that holding
out is not the answer, right, But what if you're present and you're
just hurt all the time, or what if you're present and you're pulling a
James Harden and not you know, not playing that well on the floor,
right exactly, So there's other ways to make this situation toxic if if the
good faith negotiations have gone out the window. And I think as long as
you know, in this currency EBA, in this environment, that's always going
to be a power that lies in the hands of the stars. And so
if in two years, when Zion is in his fifth year and he's like,
all right, I got my Max, I want to go to the
Knicks. I just don't see a good ending for the Pelicans, just I
just don't. And so that's but that's you know, that's that's how it
is with any star and that's kind of the way the league is. And
I'm sure as these situations kind of play out across the league, I think
when the next round of negotiations come for the CBA, like owners are going
to be out for blood. Yeah, that's going to be fascinating. And
let's not touch that with a ten foot poll at the moment. The point
in Zion last year was a revelation aside from his staying healthy, his overall
stamina. What is the biggest thing you're looking for him to improve upon in
his game this year? If the Pelicans are going to be that playoff or
play and lock whatever they're angling for because you're right, if he's a top
ten player in the NBA with what they've done, and if he stays healthy,
they should just automatically be in that mix. Yeah. So I think
offensively, if he gave gives me everything he gave me last year, I'm
more than happy with that, because that was a really good player, especially
as you mentioned, during the point zion phase when they actually put the ball
in his hands and he became a primary initiator. He was unstoppable and his
numbers obviously reflected that. And that player from February onwards was in my opinion,
a top ten player. And and so if he's just even able to
just replicate what he did last year, you know, that's that's everything you
hope for in a franchise player. Obviously, you know he's twenty one years
old and you want him to improve and the areas I like him to improve,
and offensively, I would say getting a little crisper at at his passing.
Yeah, I think he's a good playmaker. I think he sees the
stuff. I think he could be cleaned up a little bit, and I
think as he has more options this year, more actual viable offensive threats on
like Eric Bloodsoe and Steven Adams. You know, you might see some of
those numbers tops as the season progresses, and then he's he himself said he
worked on a lot of mid range stuff in the paint to make his life
easier, and I think he's right right, Yes, everyone's a floor spacer
these days. And I think I think what will help him is sort of
this ability to keep the defenses guessing and being able to hit shots in that
float to range because he gets to the rim at will and he finishes pretty
much at will, so he doesn't really need to change too much up.
But just you know, like three or four possessions where if he's in that
float to range, he's able to just pull up, hit that eight footer,
hit that nine footer. I think would would go a long way in
terms of opportunity for him to continue making an impact when defenses lower it up
defensively. Literally anything, man, just do something improve do if you show
some sort of activity level. Uh yeah, I think that's that's tied directly
with his conditioning, directly with his size, and the better in shape that
he gets, the more activity you see in terms of stats and just on
the floor the more out of shape he's in, the worst he looks.
Yeah, they last year, at least sort of the first half when I
was looking back, they bled corner threes with him on the court, and
he actually felt fairly responsible for that when you were watching. I'm not sure
if that's his you know, as you've you wrote about it, the pel
can switch their defensive scheme, So I don't know if that had anything to
do with like the other big playing you know, to the level of the
of the screen and that making it more difficult on Zion. But if they
could just get him like better off the ball, and I think they're probably
gonna need him to be better off the ball this year when you look at
the makeup of this roster, I think that goes a long way towards elevating
his profile, but just also ensuring that they can shred water on that side
of the floor. Yeah, you can't have one of those like auto sin
moments where you're just staring off in the space and you're guy's back cutting you,
or you know, you're staring off the space in the corner guy's open.
So you're right, it's it's got to be an awareness thing and and
it just requires effort. And that's really I think if his effort increases,
that his defense will get better and the Pelicans will be better as a whole.
That's that's the major uphill battle right now, is the effort. We
can talk about the technicalities of his defense and the specifics, Oh, how
are you going to you know, cover this scheme? That's all fine and
well, I need the guy to actually try first. I actually didn't send
you this in the outline, but the idea of point zon when they're fully
healthy, coupled with how the Pelicans have, you know, the lineups they've
run out during the preseason, how is this? And I typically don't care
too much about starting fives, but like, how does this starting five do
you think end up shaking out again with a with a healthy Zion's such a
good question. We've debated that amongst the Pelicans fans and media for quite some
time, and I don't think anyone knows. I'd be surprised if the coaching
staff knows where they want. I would prefer I would prefer you know,
the front court is going to be Jonas, Zion and Brandon Ingram. Those
three are locks for me. I would love to see the rookie Tray Murphy
starting just to provide more shooting in the lengthy wing. I understand coaches being
hesitant to put rookies in that kind of role, but just the quality of
shots that Zion generates for those kind of shooters, I think Trey Murphy would
would feast in that. You know. I think we saw it with Lonzo
being able to get about seven eight shots every seven eight three is a game.
I think you can do that with Trey Murphy as well. Give him
a similar amount of looks and he'll probably hit a higher percentage. And then
if you really want to lean into the shooting, you start DeVante Grant there
and he gives you another ball handler, he gives you a playmaker, and
all of a sudden you have three legitimate floor spacers on the perimeter, and
then Jonas Valanciunas, who is apparently the best floor spacer. But you know,
right, no, but you know you kind of get this. Okay,
You're you're you're creating what people have been asking for, is like more
and more shooting around side. But if they don't go with that, you
know, I also like Nikhil Alexander Walker there. I'm happy putting him in
that two spot and putting Devonte next to him. I think I like Devonte's
a starter period, so I think I'm going to pencil him in as my
Ford starter, and if it's not Trey, I want Niquel him there.
And again he gives you another ball handler, a person who can move off
the ball as well, who's better at catch and shoot threes than he isn't
off the dribble, although he does have some pretty bold shot selection when he's
not the or when he is the primary option on the floor. So that's
another reason why I like the time with the starters. So he plays a
little bit more within himself. But and then again he gives you this.
You know, all five players in the lineup can do something credible offensively,
and it leaves the defense is very few places to hide people. How do
you like the valentun Is fit with Zion or how do you anticipate them using
those two together? And then what do you think happ like? Do you
think they're gonna heavily stagger his minutes against Zion's where you're going to see him
as sort of a staple whenever Zion is sitting. To answer your second question,
yes, I do think that they will stagger a lot of those minutes
because just to maintain that interior presence and rebounding and just scoring ability. But
I don't mind the fit at all. I think Zion, when you look
at his numbers with Steven Adams on the floor, they were really good.
He was just a really good player. Like Steven Adams and Eric Blusso didn't
impact Zion. They impacted everyone else. You know, they impacted brandon Ingram,
they impacted to Kiel, they impacted you know, Alonzo, Eric Bledsoe.
So it's it's not that the spacing issues were ever really for Zion in
my opinion. I mean, look, his life does get easier when you
had Worshooters around, no doubt about that. And I think jonas being an
offensive threat and being able to sort of carve out space with his size,
and you know, if you put him in the dunker spot, you have
to put someone out there the wise he's gonna kill you. On the offensive
glass. You can dump him the ball at the elbow and either he's you
know, he'll take a floor to rain shot or you know, you can
take a one dribble move and and you know, get a shot up.
So he's a pretty versatile offensive player, much more so than Steven Adams.
And he's about an equivalent offensive rebounder. And the thing is, if he's
getting the offensive rebound, he's going up with it. He's gonna score,
where Steven Adams is probably gonna pass the ball out. So I think I
think Jonis is gonna be fine, and I'm excited to see what he does
for brandon Ingram's game when when Zion's not on the floor and those two kind
of figure out a two man pairing. So all in all, the spacing
centers I think are nice to have obviously, but with Zion, no one's
going to respect that space or out there unless they're probably like Towns, right
unless, because like you know, people like, okay, we'll get mild
Turner. He blocked shots and he's spaces a the floor. No one's gonna
defend Stern when zaios on the floor, that's just not gonna happen. And
so well, if they're not going to do that, well let me just
get the guy that also is like a really good score, a really good
rebounder, and you can just carry units in bursts. We saw that in
Memphis when when Jah was out for a portion of the year, or when
Jaren Jackson was out, Jonas was their guy and he was just kind of
the folcrum, and so having that's going to be a really big asset for
the Pelicans. You already mentioned kill Alexander Walker, who's shot selection or decision
making implies the utmost confidence, which in turn makes him aspirational. To me,
what do you envision for him to seem like? How prom you know
he could be a starter, but how prominitive a role do you think he's
going to play, And what's like just the biggest thing you're looking for from
him heading into year three? I envisioned big things for him. You know.
There was a lot of buzz positive buzz regarding him in training camp,
in informal workouts before training camp, and how he has this amazing bag and
just looks great and he really does. They are like some flashes and he
does these moves. You're like, oh my god, this guy is like
a superstar. And then he does these things and you're like, bro,
you could have just taken an open shot or open past. Why are you
trying to do a lefty behind the back, you know what I mean though,
it's it's I think he makes the game more difficult for himself. And
when he when he learns not to do that, he's really going to pop.
And and he when he learns to do the simple stuff and he gets
good at the simple stuff, because I think he's already pretty good at the
difficult stuff. And so with regards to what I expect for him this year,
he actually really started popping when when he gained the starting lineup spot when
Lonzo got hurt. Last year, he know, he averaged around like eighteen
nineteen points a game on high volume three point shooting. And he's a much
better catch and shoot player than I think people expect. And so if he's
in the starting lineup, you know, I can I can easily see him
being in this conversation for from most Improved Player, because I think he's gonna
get the offensive reps. I think he's gonna get the shots up. And
again when when Zion and b I and even Yonis attracts so much attention,
he's gonna get the he's gonna get the looks, and they're probably going to
do a lot of stagger minutes where he does get a lot of on ball
time. And so when Zion and b I are maybe off the floor,
maybe you're running the re unit with him and Yonis and those are your two
guys. So I'm excited for him, and defensively that guy competes. I
think he's a one of the better deflection generators in the league. He's usually
like very high in deflections per game or per thirty six. It's just since
the knack for getting in these these playing lanes. Think he can be a
little bit better at the point of attack when when he's trying to get over
screens and whatnot. But he there's a defensive accountability when he gets beat.
You know, he takes it personal. So I think again when I talked
about effort with regards to Zion, nikkiel brings it, and so I'm excited
to see what he does this season. He is electrifying to watch, even
when the play doesn't necessarily end well and it feels like he's I guess his
takeoff points around the basketball a little bit weird, but if he starts finishing
more consistently around the basket, he becomes like in every level score who can
also play off the ball, which is just super dangerous when you're looking at
the cosmetic makeup of the rest of this team. Yeah, I mean it's
he has all the tools, no doubt, and he's he's ambidextrous, and
the sense that he doesn't have a preference and when he comes to which side
he wants to finish with. And there was like certain games like you know,
he got sent down to the G League is like rookie year, and
he was like taking threes of his left hand. It was it was kind
of weird. But again one of those examples, it's like, just why
don't you just get good at the simple stuff if we're doing this. But
he's a very confident guy, and I think this is a year where he's
gonna start putting more of it together on a consistent basis. And that's always
the blueprint there. It's like, Okay, have all these tools. You
you know, you can shine really bright and any different areas you know you
can you can make some really creative live dribble passes. He can you know,
you can make some filthy step backs, or you can come off of
a screen sprinting full speed and on fire catch and shoot, So he has
all the tools. Just putting it together and doing it consistently is is what's
going to be key for him. How do you see the backup five rotations
shaking out when everyone's healthy. I think Jackson Hayes is still dealing with the
left ankle sprain, correct, And they have Willie Hernon Gomez, They've I've
also read they've tried Herbert Jones there, and I do think the idea of
Zion at the five is never gonna go anywhere. People always going to be
intrigued by that. So how do you sort of see those minutes behind jonas
balance shooting is shaking out if if everyone's healthy this season? Yeah, so
Jackson did that update with Jackson today was that he's going to be ready for
the season opener. So if he's healthy, he's the favorite to kind of
win those minutes for multiple reasons when he was the eighth pick, and so
they're gonna they're gonna see what they got out out of him, or they're
what they're what they have in him and invest him as a player, and
they're really high on him internally. They look at him as a versatile big
who can shoot, who can roll as a who can defend in space,
out of the perimeter at the rim. They really and truly kind of view
him as like basketball play though, and they can mold him into whatever they
want him to be. And so there was a lot of hype regarding him
in the preseason before he got hurt, that this guy was just nailing threes
from all over the court and in training camp and unfortunately we got to see
him for like eight minutes before he rolled an ankle and that was that.
So if the reality of Jackson Hayes is anything near the HiPE, yeah,
he's gonna get all those minutes, and if he continues to or if he
makes threes at an adequate rate, we might even see units where he finishes
the game at five because of the versatility he provides on defense is a different
look as a vertical rim protector and a switchy big. He can legitimately step
out of the perimeter. But you know, if it's more of the same
Jackson where he has issues with knowing where to be or it gets in foul
troubled, then it gets a little bit dicey in the backup five spot because
Billy hernandomes well, I think is a pretty solid energy guy, is just
not someone you want to rely on for more than bursts. He's a really
good rebounder, just offensively. Man just has no hands and so like just
getting pocket passes in there is a little bit difficult. But he's one of
those guys where if it's like a late you know, like a late February
game on a Tuesday, and they're on the road, you're like, Okay,
we need someone to bring an energy like that's your guy, consummate,
teammate, someone that can really push a guy like Jackson Hays for just to
keep him on track and keep him working. So that's you know, that's
Billy Hernandomes. You talked about Herbert Jones at the five. I love that
look. He's a rookie, so I don't expect him to get all that
many minutes, especially with that kind of responsibility. But I really do hope
that they continue to invest in him and continue to give him the opportunities to
succeed at that position, because if they can, that gives the Pelicans a
versatile look, which every team kind of needs. You want to be able
to play big, you want to be able to play small. If you
need to and do what you can. And I think when you talk about
Zion at the five, really it's not Zion at the five, it's guys
like Herbert with him, and so you have to like load up on big
wings and they take on those kind of defensive responsibilities. I think, no
matter I think, no matter what, with Zion, he's always going to
be on the weakest offensive player on the court. And so you know,
if you're if you're playing five out with him, he won't beat the five.
He'll probably be the one in fact or whatever. He'll just be the
Zion. You just call it the Zion position, and then you know you
can have a bunch of wings next to him, and I really like that.
The Pelicans now have some options to do that with. So they have
Trey Murphy obviously as the rookie. It's like six nine seven foot plus wingspan,
who can do those things. Herbert Jones, we talked about Nazi Marshall.
You know, they brought back Josh Hard, They have Santa r Anski
sixty seven, you know, the Kiel sixty six. Brandon Ingram obviously is
there, and so you just want to continue bringing in those kind of forwards,
those combo forwards who can rebound the ball and do the dirty work,
so Zion doesn't have to and all he has to do is just take advantage
of the spacing that that look provides and just dominate. Do you think that?
I guess I never viewed Naji Marshall or Trey Murphy in those terms where
they could like handle the biggest players on the court. If they're going to
play next to Zion, who would technically be classied as the five but not
the five, Are either of them capable of doing that? If Herb Jones
isn't on the floor, that's a good question. I think in the future,
I definitely see Trey Murphy being able to do that. I think in
a pinch. You know, they put Nagi on some bigger players and he's
been okay, Like I mean, there's a moment where like they put Nagi
on Lebron last year at the end of the year, and Naji did about
as well as you could expect for a rookie at the time. And so
you know, if there's people bigger than Lebron that he's guarding, I don't
know, he's probably gonna shot Like you can't put him on yokis right.
You can't put him on in bed. You can't put him on talents,
that's for sure. Can you put him on a Miles Turner? I think
so. You know, can you put him on like a Marquis Morris,
I think so. So it just has to depend. It depends on the
matchup. I'd say, like, I know, you can probably put him
on Christoph perzinctive if that's like the five there, Yeah, Christoph Perzincis isn't
isn't like a very aggressive, physical five. So yeah, right, it
does seem like, I mean, you want Trey Murphy to be considered as
a starter. Does seem like he's going to have a huge role right away?
Is there anything I think we all know or most of us know,
like the outline of he was built as a three and D prospect coming in.
It seems like he can fill that role immediately. But is there anything
that's impressed you or surprised you specifically about his game and fit on the Pelicans
so far? And I'll add this that was part of the reason I think
my view of their offseason softened is because when I was watching the draft,
I was like, Okay, there's no way that Trey Murphy's getting pasted Indiana.
All right, it's not he's not getting past Golden State, He's not
getting past Washington. Oh. It makes so much sense for okay, see,
just to take someone like that and then uh, No One and then
of course Okay trades that pick No One does And so the fact that they
traded back and we're playing able to pick up Trey Murphy the third who just
seems like he's going to be a very very high impact NBA player, even
if he never necessarily reaches his peak, that ends up being a huge boon
for them long term. Yeah. Look, I think what's really popped u
with Trey, But outside of his shooting, I think it's just the size
man. He just he affects so many shots and his ability to just guard
up and down the floor. The Pelicans have not been shy about putting him
on tough assignments. They play him on Anthony Edwards the first game, they
put him on Zach Lavine and de Marda Rosen. They's just you know,
they're they're testing, and obviously preseasons one thing and the regular season is another.
But that's that's kind of the blueprint where You're like, man, if
this guy can really guard up and down, you have something there. And
that's the kind of player every team searches for. I mean, you look
at how you could, You look at how well like Mkaal Bridges did last
year, and you're like, holy crap, you know, like O.
G. N and Obi like Nick Nurse has him guard one through five and
and so if Trey Murphy can become anything like those players, the Pelicans have
a real gem. And I think offensively he's a very underrated ball mover.
The ball does not stick with him. He's His decision tree of whether to
shoot, dribble or pass is very good and very quick. So it's one
of those things where I think the rookie's come in are a little bit overwhelmed
with the speed of the game, and you know what to do and make
decisions. Tray looks comfortable and he knows if he's getting it either he's hoisting
it or you know, if he is an opportunity to put it on the
floor, he will, If not, he's he's moving it along. And
and the other thing is like I think he's an underrated cutter. He just
knows how to how to be in the right place at the right time.
And because he's such a big dude, he can He's an underrated vertic threat
a little bit. So I'm interested to see if they use him as a
screen and roller in any sets. I mean I don't think they would,
but in situations where you're running like a five wing lineup or something like that,
I think you absolutely could. And and you know, there's already been
moments where he's cut weak side. You know, he's done a backdoor cut
and the people have found him. Uh, he's he's he's athletic, and
he's big. So there's a lot of a lot of creative, creative things
that the Pelicans can do with them. I love weirdness, and so if
they're gonna use Trey Murphy as a screener, I'm all the way. I'm
into that this roster is built in such a way where, if we're if
speaking with you, it sounds like Devonte Graham and he kill Olexander Walker are
gonna be guaranteed minutes in the backcourt. And just looking at players who I
wouldn't want to slot up in terms of like you know, uh, decongesting
the backcourt rotation, I know they've played Garrett Temple at the five and I'm
just looking at the way the roster film, it seems like one of or
more of Kyra Lewis, Tomas Saderanski, and Garrett Temple have the opportunity to
get squeezed in this rotation or if you have any feel sense or preference for
how they go about using or distributing minutes amongst those three. Oh, I
have no preference because I mean not, no, I have many preferences.
I have no feel because Garrett Temple has started every single preseason game. He
has not looked very good, and there's a big debate amongst like Pelicans,
you know, fans and media if he's going to continue to start or if
he was just supposed to be this imaginary placeholder for Zion and b I.
But yeah, I mean I would love for Garrett Temple to kind of get
squeeze out of the rotation take on a more of a leader from the bench
type situation. I don't know if Willie Green agrees with that or not.
I don't know. It's tough to get a read on that. I think
there's better wing talent with Josh Hart, with you know, Santa Anski with
even Herbert Jones just that I would like to see get minutes. But you
know, young coaches probably like to rely on bets, so I want to
be surprised if he's getting minutes. Please don't start him, Please don't start
it. But if if if I had to pick in terms of who gets
squeezed out of the guard rotation, I think it's Kira. Willy said he'd
like to lean ten deep when it comes to his rotation. So let's you
know, let's say the starters are DeVante. I'm assuming you know, well
the healthy Zion, right, So let's say this, the starters are Devonte
to Kiel Ingram, Zion Jonis. That's five. I think the bench is
gonna be Santa Ransky, Heart Nagy Trey and Jack's that's ten. And so
you know that's your ten deep. And depending on the matchup, you know,
you're probably gonna get Temple in there because Zion search, so we'd probably
give more minutes. Or maybe they like a matchup for Kira Bet than they
like for Santa Ransky, so he gets minutes. And you know, maybe
there's a time where the big starm Valve Trouble and Billy here and the Gomez
is getting in, but I think those ten that I mentioned are probably going
to be the rotation? Does having Gnaw and DeVante Graham plus being saddled with
but I'll say semi immediate expectations, if not outright immediate expectations. Does that
sort of squeeze Kyra Lewis junior long term here at all? Does it make
it tougher to discern his future? How much of an opportunity is even going
to get to develop with this team? I don't think so, because I
don't think anyone's truly like claimed that starting role or claimed that I'm a I'm
an established player that needs to be this mainstay in the rotation. Yet you
know, DeVante as that decent amount of success, so I suppose he's the
closest to doing that in terms of the NBA. But you know, Nikkiel
is still young, and he's very much a theory right now, and we'll
maybe and the hope is this year he becomes less of a theory more of
an actual guy there. But yeah, I don't. I don't think there's
any like long term squeezing of Kyra going on. But also like I don't
think Kira is necessarily shown anything. Yet that like I also deserve to take
all those minutes. I think he needs minutes because he's young, and I'd
like him to continue to get the opportunity. But it's not like, you
know, he's like stood out in some sort of like man, this guy's
got star equity like right now, which is fine because he's really really young
and he has a lot to do in terms of developing his body. I
think he's a you know, he's a small framed guard, and I think
once all that comes together, what's going to define him is his shot coming
together. I think his SHOT's gonna get better as he gets stronger, because
I think he can shoot. He's a really good free throw shooter, and
I think he'll be able to shoot. And so if once his shot gets
better, with how quick he is, with how effortless he gets in the
in the paint, I think he's gonna be a very good player for a
long time. It's just one of those things where I don't know if you're
stealing his Monte Morris or is it you know, some percentage of Deer and
Fox, I don't know, And both of those are very good players.
So I'd be happy to turn into Monte Morris, but you know, it's
it's tough to tell right now, I will say, and this would be
I think help Kyle Lewis Junior is that Devonte Graham is a good player and
he does put a different type of pressure on defenses than Lonzo Ball ever did.
But like his pull up jumper didn't fall last year, and he's never
really been able to finish around the rim. So that's a great point you
make about they're really not settled in the backcourt, even if there might be
more of a given hierarchy, and during this season, yeah, definitely up
for grabs. And if Kira, you know, just takes the leap,
he takes a leap, and I think and the thing with like Santaranski,
he's like he's an expiring this year, so it's not like he's going to
be a main stay in the rotation for a long time. So yeah,
I think I think it's probably more likely Kyra gets used as an asset in
acquiring some kind of like established player that's a star or quasi star and addition
with other assets, I think that's probably the most likely outcome at this point.
But you know, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those other guards
were using a stead and you know Kys the one that stays. It does
sound like one of my questions was do you think Naji Marshall is going to
be part of the every night crew? And it does sound like you have
him in your ten man rotation, So is that at your actual expectation?
And why is he so valuable to this team? Who? I will say,
just watching him is like, I don't know, he makes he can
throw like their simple passes, but it's like he's smart about moving the ball
and then he's smart about moving away from the ball and finding seams and like
set defenses when he doesn't have the ball. It's just he seems like a
really good player. And I don't know that I've maybe just not felt following
Pelicans covered enough. I haven't heard enough about him, like and how important
he is long term to this team. Yeah, I mean if he was
if Zion was healthy, he may have Naji might even have started. In
fact, he might still start. I think he's still might be a starter
and play some Zion. What Naji provides is one this like low usage defensive
wing that they can put on the opposing best player, which is something the
Pelicans have lacked for a very long time, just that kind of size.
And last year they put him on literally everyone from Steph Curry Lebron and he
was fine taken on that assignment. And that's that's just something that every team
needs. And obviously the skills, the swing skill for him is his ability
to knock down, catch and shoot jumpers to make him like a long term
vible option in the starting lineup. But you know, Zion and Brandon Ingram
are so good offensively and then with Jonas and DeVante that the offensive rating for
that group is probably going to be fine. You can get away with it.
And if he brings ballace to the defensive ent. He's a pretty underrated
playmaker. He's really good at sort of like connecting the pieces, but also
creating on his own, because he gets to the paint, he gets to
the rim, he lives at the free throw line, and he's a really
good rebounder. In fact, a lot of people thought that Josh Harton wouldn't
come back because of Naji's emergence, and he kind of plays a similar role
but just as better. With the Ballin's hands, and so I think Naji's
definitely gonna be a maid stay in the Pelicans rotation regardless of the science.
Healthier not the Keys is going to be finding him the right situations, the
right lineups the plane, and I think he's a player that definitely pops when
when there's more offensive talent on the floor and he gets to again be a
connector and connect with different pieces rather than one that has to take on an
additional offensive burden. But yeah, he's supposed to be working on his three
point shot with with Fred Vincent, but I don't know if that's continuing.
That would be exciting. Yeah, that's supposed to happen this this summer,
right and I think it did for a long time. But now like it
seems like Herbert Jones is Fred Vincent's guy right now, which is which is
exciting in and of itself. But yeah, if Naji can knock down even
like thirty six percent, that's that's a pretty pretty big asset. Whether it's
a specific specific excuse me, a position or skill set for this team,
what is their biggest weakness right now? Oh boy, I think guard play,
you know again, just because there isn't really that established guy. When
you look at the starting guards in the West, you know you have Devin
Booker, Chris Paul Russell, Westbrook, Steph Curry, Dame Lillard, you
know, Jamal Murray, Luca jah Marian, you know, like all these
guys, even even someone like the Angelo Russell, Like, I just don't
know if Pelicans have a single guard that's better than any of those type of
people or necessarily capable of slowing them down either. I mean, like I
said, nikkiel competes and that's probably your best option. So it's it's the
guard play, and with the guard play specifically, it's like the ability to
kind of create your own offense, where both those guys would Nikquel and DeVante
show the ability to. But you know, DeVante's weakness is like you said,
at the rim, and Niquil is his inconsistency. And so I'm worried
that it was going to be one of those situations where like last year,
one night, Lonzo Ball and Eric Bledsoe would hit a combined twelve threes.
Another night they would go combine over fifteen, and You're like, man,
I just don't have any consistency out of this group, and I worry that
this is going to happen again where you don't know what you're getting at night
in, night out out of these players. But and you're gonna go up
against a guntlet of good guards in the West. Do you think there's a
chance. And it probably speaks to how much of a given I just consider
him now that we haven't I haven't really mentioned him to the point of this
podcast, but brandon Ingram, is there like that uncertainty in the backcourt?
Do we maybe see like lineups where he's the day facto point guard? Then?
Oh yeah, I mean I think I think he's going to spend a
lot of time initiating the offense. So whether or not you know that that
results in him kind of being a floor general or not, I don't know.
It's probably going to create a lot of shots for himself, but definitely
he's going to spend a lot of a lot of time on the ball.
And frankly, you know, I think he's one of these I think he's
a better ceiling razor than he's a floor razor, which is why I think
his fit with Zion's actually pretty good, because Zion is a good floor razor
and a ceiling razor. But you know, Brandon can be the guy as
a as a tip of a spear, so to speak, where you have
you can get twenty five points from him on good efficiency, and every team
kind of meets that level of scoring and it's and it's really reliable. And
so when you have all these other things going on, like Jonas is putting
bigs and foul trouble, Silence putting bigs and foul trouble. Brandon's not bad
at getting to the free throw line. I think he's really gonna thrive in
those situations where of all these attention is being drawn to the big guys and
he has space to operate with. As of now, who do you think
is the most likely player to get traded from this team before the deadline?
Josh Hard? Yeah, his contract just feels like it's screaming built to be
traded. Yeah. Him and Santa Ranski both other like functional expire. I
mean, san Ranski isn't expiring and Josh Hart is an expiring that you can
reroll twice, which is really fun. But but yeah, I mean those
two can combine to bring back some pretty nice salary for the Pelicans, and
Pelicans also have a seventy million dollars trade exception that they can use, which
is something to watch. And yeah, I think I think those two are
guys that you can trade without losing much in terms of the rotation. Right,
So with sana Aranski, like you can plug and Kirat you'd be okay
and can give more minutes in the keel, you know you're gonna have Scion
on the ball. And likewise, with Josh Hart, you already have Garrick
Temple and not she and all these other players of that position. So I
think those two are like people. As a loyal listener to the in the
no podcast, I know that you and Mason fall on the spectrum of like
Josh Hart is like better as an idea and just overrated in actuality. Where
You're still surprised that his restricted free agency shook out the way it did,
like one guaranteed year or is it just the Pelicans were so convincing to the
rest of thee that they were going to match whatever it came his way.
They always held that leverage. I just I was flabbergasted that he only ended
up with one guaranteed year. I was you know, I before his restrict
the free agency shook out the way it did, I was saying that he's
not going to have much of a market. I don't think, you know.
I was like, I think a skill sets that valued on the market.
He if he was a better shooter, he would be more in the
mind. But because he is a restricted free agent, teams aren't going to
want to break the bank beyond mid level money, and the Pelicans would have
matched mid level of money in my opinion, And so that kind of effectively
shut off his options. And when that happened, they were able to squeeze
him for as long as they did and get him to sign that deal.
So all at all, not that surprising. I just I think he's a
you know, he's an eighth man on a bad team and an eighth man
on a good team. And that's just who he is. He's not going
to be you know, you plug him in for twenty minutes, twenty five
minutes, he's gonna get a few transition points, he's gonna grab a lot
of rebounds, he's gonna try hard on defense and that, and that's a
pretty narrow window of what he does. But and he's good at it,
but he doesn't dig it much from that, so I'm not surprised he didn't
get he didn't get much more money. Okay, he definitely is all first
team shoots worse from three than people talk about him and his shooting. He's
just one of those players wh everyone mentions him like this three indeed, but
then you look at his three point splits and it's like, yeah, he's
like not really even a league average shooter at this point. And what's worse
beyond that is he passes up shots constantly. It's this like pump fake and
the one step into the melane and driving without a plan, and so you
know, I'm I thought, you know, he was doing that a lot
last year because it was a contract year and he wanted his percentage just to
stay high. But he's doing it again in the in the preseason, so
I think that's just who he is. He's just not a confident three point
shooter who wants to let it fly. And that's part of why I'm excited
about Trey Murphy in those situations win Zion, because I know he's not passing
up a shot. I know Devonte Grant's not passing up that shot, so
just let him fly. This could this or should be matchup dependent. But
what do you think should be there their overall most huge or go to crunch
time line up this season? Is it? Is it just there projected starting
five, which is be a bad question because they're projected starting five is all
over the damn place. Yeah, I think it should be matchup dependent,
to be honest, I would like Jonis in there. I just think he's
a matchup problem for the opponent team. But I understand just when teams space
things out, you know, you have to adjust accordingly, and so if
and when they do that, if Jackson is as good as they say he's
been, then you know you put Jackson out there, get a different look
on defense. If not, lean into it, lean into the wings stuff
man, put put some wings out there, portray out there, put her
about there. Put whoever. I'm I want to get weird. I'm all
about getting creative, and so I think I'm a believer in you have to
force your opponent to match up with you as well. And when Zion's on
the floor, that's a problem no matter what, because there's very few matchups
for Zion. And yeah, so I think it's got to be what's going
on that night and who the opponent is, because I just I can't imagine
getting married to one specific thing the way that Stamping County did last year.
What hey, what thank you for the natural segue? What is a weird
off the beat on conventional lineup that you're really hoping they try out just to
see what happens this year. I would go the all six seven lineups.
So my point guard would be Zion, My shooting guard would be brandon Ingram,
The small forward would be Trey Murphy, the power forward would be Naji
Marshall. In the center would be Herb Johns. And I would roll with
that as those three wings that are in the front quote quote quote unquote to
just wreck havoc on defense, take the open shots or put the ball on
the floor when they need to, and let Zion cook. That's what I
would do. Mine was eerily similar. I want to see NAW with Trey
Murphy, brandon Ingram, Zion and Naji Marshall. That's a lineup that I'm
hoping that they try out. Yeah, any any any six of those players
that we just love it just any combination of that their current wind total as
we record this is set at thirty eight point five. I think I've said
this a bunch of times in the podcast. But whoever, the people that
make these lines do a really good job of making them. But would you
take the over the under on Matt and where do you sort of see them
stacking up in the larger picture of the Western Conference? If Zion was healthy,
I would have taken the over. Yeah, if I had any confidence
that he was returning soon, I would have taken the over. I have
no confidence in that, so I say, do not touch that line,
don't bet on it. But it's probably more logical to bet under than over
at this point simply because of his health. I think I'm with you.
And so if you're gonna take the under, like we're just assuming that they
missed the playoffs again this season, I mean again, if Scion is like
weeks away, months away, then yes, I think that has to be
the assumption, because he is your best player and the team is built in
a large part to function around him. You know, unless Brandon Inger where
someone else takes just this unexpected leap and and you know, they find themselves
in a play and I could still see them in the play in picture of
Zion misses extended time that that wouldn't be surprised. But you know, if
Zion only misses like ten games, then then I I would feel okay about
it the over and you know, I could see them get around forty forty
one forty two, especially if he's he's good, like this is lash,
You're good. This is the least scientific thought ever, But it just feels
like if they had like really good news on their zie on front, they
would have been more like forward or quick about oh there's yeah, there's no
good news on the zie on front. Like I said, whenever David Griffin
has a Zion laps and injury announced or yeah, announcement, because we don't
know what it is, it's never good. So but it's safe to assume
that that's the case. It's just you know, what what level of not
good is it? Is it he's not going to be ready to Christmas,
or is he's got or you know, is it that you know, he
might miss the first two weeks, but we'll bring him in in like the
first week in November and he'll be like restriction free by Thanksgiving. Okay,
that's manageable and you're like, that's that's not terrible. But yeah, so
we'll see what they come out with. But if it can't be good,
Yeah, And as you're recorded, I don't even think he's been cleared for
running, or the at least haven't said he's been cleared for running, and
so correct they Willie Green mentioned today that they were waiting on the results for
the scans, which were presumably done today as well, because if they were
done any other day and they're waiting for them, that just seems like a
convenient cover for things they don't want to tell us. Yeah, I mean,
like, look, the scans don't take that long to didn't they mentioned
this like two weeks ago that was like the scans were coming or something.
Well, so two weeks ago they mentioned that he was going to get them
at some point in the future, and then at the last preseason game and
Utah really mentioned he had not yet gotten them and you'd get them at this
week at some point, And so I presume I'm going to give them the
benefit of the doubt here that he got them today and they're waiting on today's
results, and Griff should have an answer for us in the next two or
three days or maybe tomorrow. Is there anything or anyone about this team I
didn't ask you about that you think needs to be discussed. We haven't talked
about Willie Green. Yeah, you would think I would ask about their new
head coach and how he's going to change the way that they play. But
I'm not that thorough apparently. So what are your thoughts on him so far?
Yeah? Look, he's a very even keeled individual who recognizes the weight
of his own words. Completely different vibe than Staman Gundy. He recognizes the
impact that his words about players can have on them, whereas Damon Gundy is
happily willing to say, you guys acted like high school kids, or like
high school kids could have done this or whatever he said that game. Willie's
not that guy. You know. He's been in the league for over a
dozen years as a player and then more as a coach who's won at the
highest level in Golden State. He's seen it all, and so I think
the players really respond to that, and especially after what they went through last
year, and then it shows in their conversations with the media that they really
respect his perspective. Schematically, it's a complete change. Offensively, he wants
to run, he wants to pass, he wants to move the ball,
he wants to play a free flowing style. Stan was bridget, Bridget,
Bridget, you gotta like, you know, play at a snail's pace and
and you know, bring the ball up the floor slowly and you can't do
this, you gotta do that. Where Willie's like all about empowered players.
So I think the players really respond to that. Whether that translates into results
TVD, but it's good, you know, it's good that the players like
him and the vibe is way different than what it was with Stan. Defensively,
they're going to do more of a traditional drop coverage to start the year.
Really does say you want to work his way into switching one through five
once they once they get there, especially with the pieces they have, but
they're they want to get cut up this drop first. And frankly, when
the Pelicans switched to drop defense from the ridiculous pack the paint stuff that they
were going on with last year, the last thirty six games actually since they
sent the date, since the date that they switched the drop and they finished
the season, it was like more than thirty six games actually they were the
seventh best defense in the league, and and well, I don't anticipate them
to be a top ten defense this year. Would I would absolutely not be
surprised if they were, you know, close to fifteen, you know,
closer to average, Like let's say they were like seventeen eighteen nineteen. That
would not be a surprise to me, especially if Zion is missing times because
that's a negative defendi point on the floor. Yeah, they finished twenty third
in points of perposession after like having that hot close. I would think,
especially with some of the better wing depth that they have now, if we
really expect Trey Murphy to be to be good right away and if you're going
to get a more high, higher volume role from Naji Marshall, it feels
like they should be able to build upon that. And I don't know if
this is a hot take, but if you're gonna play drop, I don't
really know if you experience this huge drop off in defensive talent going from Steven
Adams to Joonas Valanciunist, like some have speculated exactly, I mean, he's
gonna he's gonna go be the big body and the paint he was good enough
for Memphis at that time. And it's all and it's all about perimeter responsibility
from then on out. And so those size on the wings that the Pelicans
have this year is certainly gonna help them a great deal. But you know,
we'll we'll see how it shakes off in terms of how they're able to
execute it on the perimeter and and what their luck is. Frankly, they
were they're a pretty unlucky team for large part of last year when it came
to point and three point shooting. So we'll see how that plays out.
Shammon, thank you for giving me so much of your time here to educate
us all on the Pelicans. You're able to tell our listeners where they can
find you and all the fantastic work that you do. Yeah, you can
find me at Fear the Brown on Twitter. You could find my words at
Brevard street Shots dot com. And you can listen to me on a podcast
on the Blue Wire network called in the No which is n O New Orleans
in the Know and with my co host Amazing Ginsburg. You have a great
Twitter Abbey pick at the moment as well. I meant to tell you that
thanks just making a weird face for him, I go following him on Twitter
though, app you're the brown definitely make sure you do that. Thanks again
for giving me so much of your time sham it, and I think you
know by now I'll definitely be pestering you again in the future. Yeah,
absolutely, thank you.