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Welcome back to the Path Went Chile
for part two of our series about the

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murder of Evelyn Hernandez and the disappearance
of Alex Hernandez. Robin, do you

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want to catch everyone up on what
we talked about in our previous episode?

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Well, this case takes place in
San Francisco in two thousand and two.

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Evelyn Hernandez is a thirty six year
old immigrant from Alex Salvador who has a

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five year old son named Alex,
even though she's raising him as a single

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mother, and she's currently nine months
pregnant with a baby boy that she is

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planning to name Fernando. She wound
up going missing after failing to drop off

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Alex at his preschool and was not
officially reported missing for about six days,

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and it turned out that the father
of her unborn child was a man named

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Herman Aguilera, who also happened to
be married to another woman. Evelyn did

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not find out that herman was married
until she was four months pregnant, and

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even though she was not interested in
having a further relationship with him, she

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did say that she was still going
to raise Fernando and allow herman to have

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visitation because he was the child's father, but before she could give birth,

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she went missing. And it also
turned out that even though herman's wife was

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aware of the affair, she did
not find out until the police told her

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that Evelyn was pregnant with herman's child. A couple months later, they finally

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found Evelyn's torso floating in San Francisco
Bay, and even though they could not

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determine the exact cause of death,
it was obvious that she was the victim

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of foul play. They never found
any trace of Alex, and they also

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never found any trace of the fetus, which would have been Fernando, so

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they can't say with certainty that she
did not give birth before she was murdered.

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But I know there's an assumption that
Alex and Fernando are still in San

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Francisco Bay and they've just never found
their remains. But the case didn't get

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any media coverage at first. But
as I'm sure you're well aware, at

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the end of two thousand and two, Lacy Peterson went missing from the town

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of A Desto, California, and
it became a huge news story, and

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Lacy and her unborn son, Connor, were both found in San Francisco Bay

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three months after she disappeared, and
Lacy's husband, Scott would be charged with

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their murders and sent to prison,
and it became one of the most famous

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true crime cases of all time.
And of course this led to a discussion

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about why would Lacy Peterson's disappearance and
murder gets so much coverage from the media,

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whereas Evelyn Hernandez and Alex's disappearances barely
got any coverage at all, and

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it was mostly in comparison to the
Peterson case. So we're going to talk

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more about this subject in part two. So at the end of our last

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episode, we were making comparisons between
the media coverage in the Evelyn Hernandez and

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Lacy Peterson cases, as well as
the public perception of each victim. The

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primary source for most of the coverage
in the Hernandez case was a San Francisco

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Chronicle, but even they admitted that
during the four month time period between Lacy

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Peterson's disappearance and Scott Peterson's arrest,
they published thirty two articles about this story,

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and four of them made the front
page. By comparison, the Chronicle

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only published four articles in total about
Evelyn and Alex's disappearances, and none of

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them were front page news. The
first press conference from police to publicize the

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Hernandez case did not take place until
over one month after they originally went missing,

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and while a five hundred thousand dollars
reward was raised and posted in the

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Peterson case within a few weeks of
Lacy's disappearance, there was no reward offered

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for information on Evelyn and Alex until
one year after the fact. At one

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point, Evelyn's family attempted to get
her story featured on America's Most Wanted,

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who were rejected because there was no
active arrest warrant for a suspect. Yet

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during the same period, the show
ran a segment about Lacy Peterson's disappearance,

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even though there was not yet an
arrest warrant for a suspect in her case

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at that point. America's Most Wanted
did finally do a segment on Evelyn and

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Alex during the summer of two thousand
three, but of course, this was

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an entire year after they originally vanished. But while it's easy to criticize the

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media for favoring one case over the
other, you have to remember that Lacy

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Peterson's family had a lot of money
and resources to spread awareness about her case,

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and were always speaking to the press
in order to keep Lacy in the

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spotlight. By contrast, Evelyn's friends
and family had nowhere near as many resources

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at their disposal, and there was
no one who could function as her spokesperson.

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She had two sisters in the US, but one of them lived in

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Virginia, and even though her other
sister, Raina, did live in the

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Bay Area, she could not actually
hear or speak and had to communicate with

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reporters using sign language and an interpreter. Evelyn herself spoke limited to English,

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and many of her friends only spoke
Spanish, so it was very difficult for

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anyone to be an advocate for her
in the media. Ironically enough, it

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was Hermann Aguilera, the person who
would later be suspected of causing Evelyn and

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Alex's disappearances, who officially reported them
missing to the police. Now, once

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Scott Peterson became the prime suspect in
his wife's disappearance, every single aspect of

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his life was investigated and analyzed,
but the same cannot be said for herman.

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He has never given any interviews to
the media, and we only note

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the most basic details about him,
so it's tough to gauge Herman's involvement with

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such limited information. This is what
really frustrates me about what we talked about

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on the episode one, about that
kind of ideal victim or the way that

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the white woman's syndrome, right in
the way that we do give so much

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attention to Lacy's case. Herman is
a potential murder. He's also potentially innocent,

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but he's a potential murderer. And
because of who Evelyn was and because

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she was quote the other woman,
nothing was really looked at with Herman.

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Right. They took his statement basically
at face value and didn't do much digging

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into who he was, even though
he presented as a very dishonest and controlling

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person. Right, we always wanted
to control the narrative. So you're letting

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somebody potentially off the hook because of
the judgment and attention that you failed to

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give to Evelyn in this case.
And so it's kind of this full circle.

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Not only did you fail Evelyn and
Alex and that unborn child, but

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you're also giving a pass to someone
who's a potential perpetrator. Case by saying

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there's not a whole lot to look
at here and moving forward just kind of

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glossing over the case as a whole. It is really frustrating, the whole

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anecdote about America's Most Wanted where they're
like, well, we can't feature her

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case because no one's technically wanted,
and so it doesn't really fit the show.

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Yet they're more than happy to do
that for Lacy Peterson's disappearance, even

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though Scott was not yet an active
suspect with an active arrest warrant. But

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you can understand why America's Most Wanted
would want to capitalize on that because it

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was the biggest true crime story in
the nation at that point. So you

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can just understand like all these obstacles
where like the media is just clamoring to

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get every single detail about Lacey,
but Evelyn's story is just falling through the

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cracks, and the potential suspect,
the potential killer, Herman, is not

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getting any attention at all. But
of course, the key difference between the

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Hernandez and Peterson cases is that Evelynce
five year old son Alex disappeared alongside her,

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and sadly that poor boy has often
been overlooked in this whole saga.

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Well, most people involved in this
case don't hold up my hope that Alex

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is still alive. Without a body, we can't be one certain And while

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the fetus for Lacey's unborn son,
Connor was found in San Francisco Bay,

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the fetus for Evelyn's unborn son,
Fernando was not. It's most likely that

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Fernando did not survive and his fetus
has simply not been found. But because

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Evelyn was less than a week away
from giving birth and her torso was not

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discovered until over three months later,
we technically cannot say with one percent certainty

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that she did not give birth to
Fernando before she was killed. Now,

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I know there's been a lot of
controversy about Scott Peterson in recent years,

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as he does have his fair share
of supporters who believe he is innocent,

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and in twenty seventeen, the A
and E Network released an extensive multi part

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documentary series titled The Murder of Lacy
Peterson, which attempted to cast doubt on

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his conviction. Well, I'll stay
right up front that even though the case

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against him was circumstantial, I still
believe that Scott Peterson is guilty as sin,

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and the sheer amount of circumstan angel
evidence against him is far too damning

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for me to believe that he was
innocent of his wife and unborn sons murders.

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And in spite of what his supporters
might say, I want to discount

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the idea that this crime has any
connection to the Hernandez case, even though

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both victims were found in San Francisco
Bay, the Peterson's lived ninety miles away

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at Maddesto. Though I have considered
the possibility that Scott might have intentionally made

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the decision to drive to Berkeley and
dump Lacey's body in the bay in order

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to give off the false impression that
both she and Evelyn were murdered by the

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same killer. However, the Hernandus
case got so little coverage in the media

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that I doubt that Scott would have
even heard of it. No, no,

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no, no, And doesn't it
make you sick when you hear Scott

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Peterson's supporters like all the evidence is
overwhelming, his behaviors, his statements,

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Amber FRI's testimony, all of these
different things that we know about Scott and

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what happened after Lacey went missing,
and you'd you have a whole band of

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people, you have documentaries out,
you have things that are quote trying to

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prove his innocence, and it's it
has become almost like we talked about in

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episode one, this sexualization is glamorisation
of Scott as this innocent man and hero

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in the story, right, this
grieving husband and oh, I just I

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cannot His name shouldn't even be said. It should be Lacy's and they're unborn

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baby, and you know, now
Scott's back in the line mine getting this

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attention. It's wild. Yeah.
I recently watched this documentary. I can't

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remember what it was called. It
was something like The Case for Scott Peterson

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or something along those lines. And
I think it was on Netflix, but

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don't quote me. It could have
been on Prime. And it went through

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the perspective of Scott potentially being innocent, and it went through that there could

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have been killer who was targeting pregnant
women, and also the break in and

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all these different inconsistencies, and we
see lots of errors in cases, and

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I think when that happens, it's
easy to be like, oh, there's

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all these hidden variables and there's so
much mystery. Attached to this case.

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But the reality is you've got a
bunch of human beings working on it,

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and human beings are fallible. We
can't look at police and investigators and assume

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that they're going to do everything perfectly
in every single case. And obviously they

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had to get little things wrong here
or there. This happens. We saw

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that in the John Boney Ramsey case, and that's why I believe so much

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mystery swirls around that even though for
a long time I personally believed it was

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somebody in the family, and now
I look at it and I'm like,

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how could I ever believed that.
I believe it's an intruder. And I

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think the fact that people believe that
it was Scott. He's very fortunate,

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and that he is good looking.
People think that he's attractive. He has

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that whole halo effect going, and
that people assume because he's good looking,

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he must be a good person,
even though we have his actions that seem

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to be proving to the cause contrary. He seems to have a callous disregard

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for his pregnant wife and also for
Amber in the way that he's treating her

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and continuing to lie to her.
So he also has the fact that those

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brakens were happening next door, and
that it leaves some ambiguity there. People

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believe that maybe Lacey was walking the
dog and she was abducted. She's thought

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too much, and then people also
connect cases like Evelyn hernandez Is and think,

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well, maybe there was a serial
killer who was targeting pregnant women.

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So I think there's a lot of
things that are working for Scott Peterson and

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that he got lucky, and that
it causes doubt for some people. Oh

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yeah, I watched that series about
Scott Peterson, and they put a lot

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of emphasis on that group of burglars
who broke into the house across the street,

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but they failed to mention that police
did look into them and cleared them

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as suspects relatively quickly. And even
if Lacey saw something she wasn't supposed to.

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I don't think these burglars are going
to go to the trouble of like

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dismembering her and driving her ninety miles
to damp her body in San Francisco Bay.

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So it's all just smoke and mirrors, like somebody saw you committing a

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robbery or a burglary and you're going
to then what put a pregnant woman in

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your van and murder her. I
don't think that whatever jail time you could

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potentially get when she's likely not going
to recognize your face, because if it's

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during the day, like I mean, I don't know, is she going

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to be able to draw a composite
sketch of you and you're, you know,

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co defendants if you guys are brought
to trial. I don't know.

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I think it's possible, But is
that what she's really going to be focusing

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on. She's super pregnant. How
many people are going to unless they're absolute

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psychopaths go oh, I don't want
to get busted for this robbery. I

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better abduct and murder a woman.
It's just not very logical. No.

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If you think that burglar theory is
ridiculous, wait till you hear what Jewels

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talks about next. Oh my gosh, bring it on, Jewels. So

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I think the Scott Peters and defense
team kind of lucked out into the fact

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that such a similar cry occurred in
the Bay Area earlier that same year,

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which gave them the opportunity to point
the finger at an outside third party.

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But the problem is that some of
Scott's supporters decided to bring an old relic

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from the nineteen eighties into the mix
you guessed at ashe it's Satanic panic.

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One of Scott's defense attorneys was Matt
Dalton, who was removed from the case

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prior to trial for violating a judge's
order not to speak with the media.

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He would later publish a book titled
Presume Guilty, which attempted to cast out

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on Scott's conviction, but one of
his alternate theories was that Lacey was murdered

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by a Satanic cult from the Berkeley
area who had been responsible for the disappearance

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of seven pregnant women over a three
year period. Dalton made mention of Evelyn

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Hernandez and pointed out that she went
missing on the date of May first,

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which the Satanic calendar apparently refers to
as the Grand Climax aka a day of

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sacrifice. Well, a retired California
congressman named William A. Danemeyer read Presumed

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Guilty, and in September two thousand
and six, he decided to send a

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letter to the California Attorney General stating
quote both Lacey and Evelyn disappeared on Satanic

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holy days according to the Satanic calendar, and they both ended up in the

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San Francisco Bay with their hands,
feet, and heads missing. I began

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to read everything I could have a
vote, Satanism, Satanic cults, and

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ritual abuse. With this mountain of
evidence not used to the trial, evidence

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that would have cleared Scott Peterson.
Why was it not used? End quote?

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Oh my god, Oh my god. No, he's innocent. I

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didn't know this. No, Okay, William's crazy. He might be a

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very accomplished congressman. But when you
look at stuff like this, like,

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is it something to consider if you're
investigating the case ab solutely? Like would

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you want to know as a detective
these kinds of facts? Sure? Do?

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You also have to make sure that
you don't buy into exactly what Jules

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said. The Satanic panic that was
happening at the time, we saw this

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with all kinds of different kind of
misunderstandings about certain populations. You had the

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San Antonio for the for lesbian women
who were targeted for sexual abuse, the

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daycares that were targeted for sexual abuse
that were not accurate, and you know,

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the Satanic groups being blamed for all
kinds of things. Look at the

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West Memphis three and how Damien was
passed as a Satanic worshiper, right,

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and that's why he had to kill
these kids. We can go too far

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with information that we received. So
should detectives have looked at this? And

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do we know that they didn't?
You know, like, it's very possible

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they saw this date and said,
oh, it's interesting that it happens to

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be a Satanic holiday. But is
this completely ignorant on the congressman's fault to

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then make an assumption of innocence That
makes no sense In this case. There's

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a million and one reasons why Scott
Peterson was found guilty and this one ironic

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coincidence doesn't change that fact. I'm
sorry, William, but you're wrong.

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And so is this crazy man who
writes the Matt Dalton who says, oh,

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let me write this presumed guilty and
make all these assumptions. Because as

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an author, I feel like we
have an obligation to be accurate when we

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portray books like a true crime book, right, you need to be very

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diligent and what you put forth because
not everybody is as educated on the topic.

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And when you make these broad claims, and you make these links,

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and you draw these assumptions. I
don't know, he's way off base.

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Scott Peterson's guilty. You can't convince
me otherwise. Supporter of his or not,

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people, it was fun to hear
Jewels say the phrase the grand climax

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with this faced whatever. That's exactly
right, Okay. I don't think it's

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going to come as a complete shock
for you to hear me say this.

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But no, I do not believe
a Satanic cult was responsible for the murder

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of Evelyn Hernandez, and I certainly
don't believe they killed Lacy Peterson. But

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on the other side of the coin, I do not believe Scott Peterson was

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responsible for killing Evelyn, even though
I have seen that pushed forward as a

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potential theory. After Scott was charged
with his wife's murder, I know attempts

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were made to paint him as a
remorseless serial killer and link him to other

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unsolved cold cases from California. For
instance, you might be familiar with the

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disappearance of nineteen year old Kristen Smart, who vanished from the campus of California

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Polytechnic State University in May of nineteen
ninety six, it turned out that Scott

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just happened to be a student at
the same university during that time period.

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But even though rumors briefly spread that
he might have some sort of connection to

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Kristen's disappearance, a suspect named Paul
Flores was finally convicted of her murder last

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year, So the whole thing is
nothing more than a coincidence. Since Scott

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lived in Modesto, there is nothing
at all to link him to Evelyn Hernandez

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or suggesting he was in San Francisco
in May of two thousand and two when

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she went missing. So again,
it's likely just a coincidence that two murdered

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pregnant women were adopted San Francisco Bay
during that particular year. So I think

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we can now officially close the books
on the Hernandez Peterson connections and start focusing

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out what really happened to Evelyn,
Alex and Fernando. Yes, please,

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because let's go back really quick to
Scott's case and then move on. Or

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actually it's Lacey's case. But when
Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife, he

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did so because it served an important
purpose for him. And so when you

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say Okay, listen. He killed
Lacey because he wanted to have this life

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with Amber Fry and he had gotten
in so deep with Amber. Remember he

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had told her that his wife was
dead. She had been to support system.

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She had held his hand while he
was grieving. She had helped him

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mourn Lacy. Right, This was
an important part of their relationship. I'm

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a widow. I get that connection. When you have someone who loves you

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enough to let you love your late
spouse, lets you grieve and lets you

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love them at the same time,
it's a very unique intimate relationship. That's

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what Amber was for Scott, and
she had no idea the monster she was

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actually dealing with. But Scott solely
killed Lacy so that he could pursue the

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life he wanted. Right, She
was worth disposing of, as was his

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own blood and child to pursue this
life with Amber. What would he have

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to benefit from killing Evelyn. It
was such a directed killing that he did

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towards Lacey and his unborn child.
He has no need to kill Evelyn.

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Right, This is to me,
there's not a motivation. You can see

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that Hermann did have the same motivation
that Scott had. Get rid of my

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problem. And so when people try
to link Scott as the actual killer of

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Evelyn, I think it's I don't
know, I don't know what's dumber that

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more dumb, right, is it
Scott killing Evelyn? Or is it a

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Satanic panic actually the Satanic worshipers being
responsible for their deaths. I don't know

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which is sillier. I actually think
that connecting Scott Peterson to Evelyn's is worse

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than the Satanic panic because at least
with the Satanic one, you've got some

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dates, and they seem to have
cases where they're making these connections. They're

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obviously looking for connections. But connecting
Scott Peterson, you're what then is doing

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that Scott Peterson got together with Lacy, got her pregnant so he could then

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murder her because he's then a serial
killer that targets pregnant women. It doesn't

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even make any sense, Like that
is just the most preposterous thing that I've

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ever heard. It was clearly a
very personal crime, and that he killed

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his pregnant life. Why would he
be going and looking for a woman who

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someone else got pregnant to then murder
her. Are we supposed to believe that

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he first murdered Evelyn, and he
enjoyed it so much that he decided to

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murder his own pregnant wife. Like
I don't understand, this doesn't not make

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any sense, and the satanic panic
one is also a ridiculous theory. But

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I think that trying to link Scott
Peterson to Evelyn Hernandez is just crazy.

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On the surface, the explanation might
seem pretty obvious. We have a woman

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that became pregnant with a child of
a married man, and he was not

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overly thrilled about the whole situation,
and she reportedly told him that she wanted

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to end the relationship a short time
before she disappeared. However, herman Aguilera

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has never formerly been named as a
suspect, so unlike Scott Peterson, it

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doesn't sound like there's much in the
way of actual evidence against him at all.

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And obviously, the murder of a
woman, a five year old boy,

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and an unborn child is an incredibly
monstrous act. Yet we know so

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little about herman's background that it's difficult
to determine if you would be capable of

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00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:14.839
something like that. But here's what
we know about the timeline. The last

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time Evelyn was confirmed to be alive
was at around nine pm on the evening

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of May first, when she finished
a phone conversation with her sister. Even

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though she was not reported missing until
six days later, the first sign that

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something was wrong was when Evelyn failed
to drop off Alex at preschool on the

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morning of May second. For this
reason, investigators believe that something happened to

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both of them during this window of
approximately nine or ten hours. It has

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to be Evelyn was hurting so badly. Remember she had called her sister and

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said, like, I don't know
if I can drive, Like my stomach's

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really hurting. She could have been
thinking she was in an early labor or

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going into labor, and Olivia says, well, like, do you have

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anyone that can help you? And
she goes, no, I'm just going

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00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.680
to take him myself. And she
drives her baby in pain to daycare.

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The day before she's able to run
some errands and go pick him up and

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bring him home, and she's planning
things with Olivia on the phone. She's

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saying, Hey, I'm going to
this baby shower right I'm making plans for

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the next couple of days before I
give birth. And then she doesn't bring

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that baby to school the next day
that it is incredibly scary. It's a

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definite sign that's something had already happened
to them. This is the kind of

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case where it goes like I now
am desperately concerned about what happened to Alex

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because this person clearly didn't dispose of
Evelyn in a very effective manner or right

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00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:45.519
Evelyn her torso was wash up and
discovered. So would the killer have actually

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hidden Alex to a point where he
was never discovered. I don't see them

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doing an excellent job with Alex,
but not Evelyn. And I also have

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to go back to where Jules you
mentioned we know very little about Herman's background,

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so could he became pable of something
like this? I'm gonna say this.

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I think many people are capable of
far more than we want to give

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them credit for, or we want
to acknowledge so that we're not horrified of

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human behavior. But I think a
lot of people are capable of a lot

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of depraved things. We just have
two bigger consequences to do those, or

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it's like beyond what our current circumstances
offer. But I don't know. I

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think human nature is a very scary
thing to look at. Herman has shown

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that he is the most important.
He has shown that he does not have

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much regard for human life with the
people around him, because he was willing

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to ruin his wife's his wife's life
by having an affair, by not being

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accountable when called out on that,
by continuing to manipulate in line to her.

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So clearly he's not concerned with his
wife's well being whatsoever. Because have

337
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an affair, many people are able
to look at their spouse and find tools

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00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.519
to move forward, and if they
do, bravo. But you have to

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00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:11.720
have accountability and responsibility. You have
to be the one who has to step

340
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.039
back and say I'll do whatever you
need me to do to earn your trust.

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And that is not lying to me
yet again, which is exactly what

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Herman did. He said, I'm
done with her. We don't have a

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relationship. And he then says,
oh, I was buying her son a

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bed and taking her to a doctor's
appointment the last time I saw her.

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Like Herman can't have it both ways, but he will always have it to

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where he's in control, where he's
the victim. He's the good guy,

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he's the hero. Do I think
people like that are capable of getting rid

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of a human being because they're an
inconvenience or a danger to their narrative.

349
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Yes, I think those are the
most dangerous type of people. Herman was

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the most important person in his world. He got what he wanted when he

351
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wanted it, and he never was
accountable for his mess ups. He always

352
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.359
had an excuse. He was always
the good guy, and so I think

353
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he's very capable. Did he do
it? Who knows? But is he

354
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capable? Yeah? I think he
is. I think we know so little

355
00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.640
about him, but like you said, we do know that there is a

356
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pattern of deception and that he acts
without integrity, and I think we can

357
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kind of extrapolate from that that when
the walls are closing in on him,

358
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he may take extreme measures. And
I do think that somebody like him is

359
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:33.640
a very destructive person. He's being
destructive to his wife, his relationship with

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her, and he's also being destructive
to Evelyn and Evelyn's life. So somebody

361
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who is an incredibly destructive person,
I think for them to then go and

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do the most destructive act, well, to me, that's plausible. And

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I'm not saying I am not saying
an adulter equals a murderer. I'm saying,

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does character lend itself to be willing
to slip down moral and ethical and

365
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.480
sound reasoning. Yes, especially when
you're doue deceitful things over and over again

366
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with that very controlling and manipulative behavior. I've met people who have had an

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affair and are truly humbled and broken
by it and become a better spouse after

368
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the fact. Like that is also
very possible, But that is not someone

369
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who is willing to continue the deceit. That's not somebody who is more important

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than the person that they broke and
hurt. You know. It's they put

371
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that other person first after that,
and they're able to say, I mess

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up and I owe them my life
for giving me another chance. You know,

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that's a very different person than the
one who continues to manipulate and lie

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after they've been caught. Another key
clue is the disability check that was inside

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Evelyn's wallet when it was found later
that month. Evelyn did not received that

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00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.240
check until she picked up her mail
on the evening of me the first,

377
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so it's reasonable to assume that if
she had been alive for any length of

378
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:55.559
time on me the second she would
have deposited it. Since the check and

379
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:59.440
forty dollars in cash were left in
Evelyn's wallet, that would seem to indicate

380
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.839
that rob was not the motive for
what happened to her. But it makes

381
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:07.400
you wonder why the wallet was found
in that particular parking area. I mentioned

382
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.160
on her last episode that there are
differing sources which state that this location was

383
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.279
two blocks away from either the limousine
company were Herman worked, or a gas

384
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.960
station that the company often frequented.
But of course that's hardly conclusive evidence that

385
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.960
herman was involved. But it makes
you wonder if Evelyn's wallet was intentionally planted

386
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.519
in that parking area or if she
just happened to drop it there when something

387
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:32.200
happened to her. Now, we've
been critical of the media coverage of this

388
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:36.960
case, but the original police investigation
wasn't handled much better, since they initially

389
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.319
assumed that Evelyn had left on her
own to give birth to her child in

390
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:44.960
privacy because she recently had a fight
with herman. Of course, that assumption

391
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:49.200
was completely ridiculous since all of Evelyn's
personal belongings, including a suitcase she had

392
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:53.519
packed for her upcoming hospital state were
left behind and she did not even own

393
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.519
a car, So where exactly was
she planning to go to give birth and

394
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:03.839
how would she get there? She
wasn't She wasn't going anywhere to run away

395
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.720
and give birth. She again,
was making plans. She was fighting to

396
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.160
make sure to spite her own ailments
as she was getting that baby to school,

397
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:15.279
and she was getting Alex situated and
safe, and you know, she

398
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:19.079
had her bags packed to take to
the hospital. Her passport was sitting there.

399
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:25.279
It's insane. It's absolutely insane to
think that Evelyn had any intent other

400
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:29.599
than to bring another little one into
the world and continue to work hard to

401
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:37.000
provide for them. It's also unfortunate
that Evelyn and Alex had not been seen

402
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:42.240
for six days before they were reported
missing, so crucial time and evidence may

403
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:48.240
have been lost. Since Evelyn was
on disability and not working at this time,

404
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.079
she did not have a job to
show up for, which might explain

405
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.279
why no one really noticed she was
missing. It's a bit weird that during

406
00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.359
her final phone call with her sister, Evelyn mentioned a baby shower she was

407
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.680
planning to attend, But we still
have no idea who was holding the shower

408
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:08.400
and when it was supposed to take
place. If the shower happened sometime between

409
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:12.400
May sec and to seventh, did
no one become concerned when she didn't show

410
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:18.000
up? Of course, Hermann reported
Evelyn missing on the seventh, which makes

411
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.920
sense since this was her due date
and he claimed he had no luck getting

412
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.480
in touch with her. If Hermann
was involved in what happened, I'm sure

413
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.160
he realized that it would look awfully
suspicious if he didn't make any attempt to

414
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.519
find Evelyn on the day that she
was scheduled to give birth to their son.

415
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.200
Hermann claimed that he last saw Evelyn
on April thirtieth, when they met

416
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:44.720
at the hospital for a prenatal exam. Even though Evelyn's sister Raina said that

417
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.359
Evelyn was ending her relationship with Herman, she apparently told him she would still

418
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.960
allow him to have visitation with Fernando, so I could see why Herman would

419
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:57.279
attend this appointment even if things were
not great with their relationship. But it

420
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:02.799
sounds like Herman was supporting Evelyn financially
and she was going to seek additional child

421
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:07.319
support payments from him, so this
could definitely be a potential motive for him

422
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.400
wanting to get rid of her.
Oh my goodness, that's executor. I

423
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:15.039
was thinking as you were describing once
she told her sister that she was going

424
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:20.279
to end things with herman, but
also keep him in the child's life,

425
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.759
or at least allow him acts such
the child's life. Immediately, I thought,

426
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:30.160
m custody of formal child support payments, or at least expected financial payments,

427
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:36.240
And that's very hard to keep from
your wife. Unofficially, if herman

428
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.920
was taking care of Evelyn and was
providing for her, was it these little

429
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.519
purchases that he could explain away,
or was it something he could say,

430
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:45.160
oh, I bought that for business, or you know, oh that charge,

431
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.119
you know, you don't even don't
worry about that. But if he

432
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:53.160
was ordered to pay money for that
child, if she said I expect X

433
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:57.440
amount of money and he thought,
oh my god, that's too much.

434
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:02.599
My wife will automatically know that money's
missing, that would definitely be a motive

435
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:08.920
to silence that demand. Finances,
especially finances within a marriage when you're having

436
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:15.240
an extra marital affair, that's a
big it's a big scary scenario. And

437
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:19.519
I still don't understand the whole baby
shower thing. It makes me wonder if

438
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:22.079
this could have been like a ploy
of some sort to lure somewhere. I

439
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.039
mean, I don't know if Herman
would have done it, but what if

440
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:27.240
he said, Oh, I have
like a sister, or I have a

441
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.319
female friend who's going to hold a
baby shower for you tomorrow, so I'll

442
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:32.599
take you there and then use this
as an excuse to kill her and dump

443
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.640
her body. Now could it have
been a friend's baby shower. Could she

444
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:38.200
had been like, Hey, I'm
gonna go attend this baby shower and it

445
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.440
wasn't for her. Yeah, I
have no idea about that, because no

446
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.279
one has ever come forward to confirm
that, yes, Evelyn was supposed to

447
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:49.240
attend a shower this week for herself
or for one of her friends. And

448
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.559
like we said earlier, like it's
kind of surprising that when she didn't show

449
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.000
up that no one became concerned or
attempted to record her missing. So I

450
00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:00.400
still don't know if this shower actually
existed. However, it's was like the

451
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:04.839
biggest stumbling block against making any sort
of case against Herman is that his wife

452
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:07.639
provided him with an alibi, maintaining
that he came home from work on the

453
00:34:07.639 --> 00:34:12.159
evening of May the first and spent
the entire night with her. Now,

454
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:15.159
of course, since Evelyn and Alex
were not reported missing for six more days,

455
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.079
this does not clear herman, but
once again says Alex did not show

456
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.840
up her preschool the following morning.
Investigators seemed to believe that the disappearances had

457
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:29.719
to occur during a window of time
when herman's whereabouts or accounting for. Of

458
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.679
course, you could easily assume that
herman's wife lied to police and fabricated an

459
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:37.599
alibi in order to protect him.
But the problem is that we know virtually

460
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.639
nothing about her, not even her
name. We know that when Amber Fry

461
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:46.039
learned about Lacy Peterson's disappearance, she
showed no hesitation about being transparent and coming

462
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.119
forward to share everything about her affair
with Scott. By the sound of things,

463
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:53.559
herman's wife did find out about his
affair with Evelyn, and he had

464
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:58.239
assured her he was ending it,
But she had no idea that Evelyn was

465
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.559
pregnant with herman's child until she was
questioned by police. If she had been

466
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:06.360
lying for herman in order to cover
for him, you would think that revelation

467
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.960
might have been the turning point which
prompted her to come clean and admit the

468
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:13.679
alibi was false, but it sounds
like she continued to stand by him.

469
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.039
We really don't know anything about the
circumstances of their marriage, so I have

470
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:21.639
no idea what kind of person Herman's
wife was or if she would have been

471
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.920
willing to be complicit in a crime. Hell, for all we know,

472
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:29.119
Evelyn and Alex's disappearance could have been
her idea to begin with, but without

473
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:34.079
any more details, that's nothing but
brash speculation. If Herman's wife already knew

474
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.159
about his affair with Evelyn, then
there would be no reason for Herman to

475
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.360
kill Evelyn in order to cover the
whole thing up. But if she was

476
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:45.280
legitimately unaware of Evelyn's pregnancy, that
might have given him the motivation. That

477
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:47.559
might have given him the motivation to
take the extra step to get rid of

478
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:52.840
her, and Alex could have been
nothing more than collateral damage. I guess.

479
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.320
One of the major issues is that
the most information we know about Evelyn

480
00:35:55.320 --> 00:36:00.440
and Herman's relationship was delivered second hand
by Raina, and since Herman is elected

481
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.639
not to speak with the media,
and there's no longer talking to the police.

482
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.559
We really can't hear his side of
the story. I also have no

483
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:10.880
idea what herman has been up to
these past two decades, or if he's

484
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:15.480
even still married to his wife.
You know, I see a big difference

485
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.119
though, in amber Fry's position and
in his wife's position. Like, yes,

486
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.880
both women were deceived, Yes both
women were betrayed. Yes both women

487
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:29.119
could be married or in a relationship
with a monster. But amber Fry was

488
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:34.360
truly this kind of like, what
in the heck is happening? I had

489
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:37.039
this angel in my life, and
all of a sudden I discover he's a

490
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:42.199
devil. And I'm pretty sure he
killed his wife an unborn child after telling

491
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.320
me they were already dead, right, Like, it's this horrible, awful

492
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:50.320
thing. Now, herman has put
his wife in a very difficult position because

493
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:58.039
he has manipulated and abused her and
just kind of taken advantage of the dynamic

494
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:02.760
of having a trusting wife who believes
you to be loyal and what a husband

495
00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:07.159
is supposed to be. Right,
She's been put in a position where she

496
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.920
finds out he's unfaithful and she stays, and that's a very difficult position for

497
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:15.800
a wife to be in. I
cannot imagine being in that position. But

498
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:22.000
it's very possible she's financially dependent on
him. It's very possible herman's reminded her

499
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:25.800
she's nobody without him, right,
and that she needs him in her life

500
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:30.639
right, just quote as much as
he needs her. So I could very

501
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:39.519
much see a broken, hurt woman
who's trying to have integrity and society,

502
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:45.880
not just thinks she's this horrific human
being herself, try to protect and believe

503
00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:49.639
that herman has nothing to do with
this, right, And if he went

504
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.719
to sleep with her, and if
he woke up next to her, I

505
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:59.000
could see someone convincing themselves. I
will never question whether or not he left

506
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:00.800
the bed that night. He was
here when I went to sleep, he

507
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:04.800
was here when I woke up.
I'm going to say that he was here

508
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:07.960
all night because I have to believe
that if I'm going to survive the situation

509
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.639
that I've got myself into. So
I don't know, I just see a

510
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:15.559
very different dynamic that would be happening
there. There would be this almost if

511
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.960
this is all true, then what
does that mean about me? I could

512
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:23.639
see that being a psychological kind of
torture for his wife, if that makes

513
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:29.199
sense. Human beings are incredibly complex, and I think you brought up a

514
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:35.199
really important point, Ashley. There's
a very real possibility that she was dependent

515
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:39.480
upon herman financially. And also we
don't know how good her English skills were

516
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:45.440
either. We don't know anything about
her because we know that Evelyn spoke very

517
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:50.840
little English. We can't assume that
herman's wife was a proficient English speaker either.

518
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.920
Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. But it could be further isolating

519
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:58.599
if you're then going to come to
terms with the fact that he may have

520
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:01.280
done this, and you're going to
tell the police this, and then you're

521
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:06.280
left to fend for yourself. Well, he's charged with murder and you've got

522
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.960
nobody to support you financially, and
your options are limited because of a language

523
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.119
barrier. We don't know what she
was dealing with, but there are a

524
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:19.000
myriad of reasons why somebody who is
not a bad person may, in a

525
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:23.400
situation such as that, try to
protect their own interests, and that's potentially

526
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:30.320
what we're seeing here. So are
there other alternate scenarios which don't involve herman?

527
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:34.159
Being the perpetrator. Well, with
a limited information that we have,

528
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:38.199
that's certainly possible. Another theory is
that Evelyn could have been a victim of

529
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:45.079
a fetal abduction. As horrifying as
that whole concept is, there are documented

530
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:50.360
cases of pregnant women being murdered and
having their unborn fetus forcibly extracted from their

531
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:55.239
body through a crude cesarean section.
In some of these cases, the perpetrator

532
00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:59.760
turned out to be a woman who
wanted a child and actually went to the

533
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.239
of committing murder in order to steal
another woman's fetus to pass off as their

534
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:07.239
own. Of course, there's no
evidence that this is what happened to Evelyn,

535
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:12.039
but since the fetus of her unborn
son, Fernando, was never found,

536
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:16.920
I guess you can't completely discount the
possibility. However, it's worth mentioning

537
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.039
that there were no signs of noticeable
injuries found on Evelyn's torso, and while

538
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:28.000
her exact cause of death was never
determined, it sounds like investigators have leaned

539
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:31.480
towards the idea that her body came
apart in the San Francisco Bay because of

540
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:37.360
decomposition, not because she'd been cut
up and decapitated. As much as I

541
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:42.079
would like to believe that Fernando was
removed from Evelyn's body before she died and

542
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:46.039
that he's outliving his life somewhere under
a new identity, I do think the

543
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:52.280
most likely explanation is that his fetus
was separated from his mother's torso via decomposition

544
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:58.400
and is still out there in the
water somewhere. It's insane for me to

545
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:02.199
think about ever in someone's life.
But then when you add the fact that

546
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:08.159
whoever did this right clearly did something
with Alex and that unborn child as well.

547
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:15.159
So you're talking about three human lives
that were so valueless to you that

548
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:21.360
not only did you kill them,
but you also then or let's we know

549
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:28.920
Evelin was killed, but you also
tortured their body as well. Her torso

550
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:34.000
was found, which means she was
cut in pieces. I just can't imagine

551
00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:39.000
when a human loses such value to
somebody. So it's so depraved, it's

552
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:44.000
so sad. I my god,
in a fantasy world, I would pray

553
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:50.519
Alex and this baby or living some
life with some amazing human who found them

554
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:52.800
and is raising them. That's just
not the case. I think three people

555
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:58.199
lost their lives that day, and
my got the fact that someone has not

556
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:01.199
been arrested in this case is horrified
because who else did they hurt, whether

557
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:05.639
it was death or not. Who
else did they run into that they were

558
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:10.760
so able to hurt with no regard. Well, let's talk more about Alex.

559
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.519
While investigators have never disclosed much about
the condition of Evelyn's apartment after she

560
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:20.760
disappeared, they haven't mentioned there being
any signs of forced entry, struggle,

561
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:23.679
or foul play. So I have
to wonder if Evelyn or Alex left their

562
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:29.800
apartment voluntarily before something happened, even
though most of their personal belongings were left

563
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:32.840
behind. Evelyn's wallet was discovered in
a parking area, and her cell phone

564
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:37.079
has never been found, and those
are two items she likely would have had

565
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.840
on her if she stepped out.
It's worth noting that Alex's preschool, Juana

566
00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:45.960
Vista Elementary School, is located just
over three miles from the Crocker Amazon district,

567
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:50.320
but since Evelyn did not own a
vehicle, it would have taken over

568
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.440
an hour to walk there. I
get the impression that Evelyn usually took the

569
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:58.360
bus in order to drop off Alex
at school, but what if someone showed

570
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.880
up at their place during the early
more hours of me the second and offered

571
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:05.639
them a ride, and then instead
of driving to the school, the perpetrator

572
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:09.199
took Evelyn and Alex to another location
to harm them. If that's what happened,

573
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:13.440
that seems a lot more likely that
they would have accepted a ride from

574
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.159
someone they knew. However, like
we said numerous times already, certain details

575
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:21.840
about this case are just too vague
in order to come up with a concrete

576
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:25.639
theory that implicates Herman or anyone else
as being responsible for this. You know,

577
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:30.719
if Herman is innocent, I don't
really blame him for not speaking with

578
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.559
police anymore or not speaking to the
media, because, my goodness, we've

579
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:39.000
seen even throughout some of the unsolved
mystery cases, Robin that you pointed us

580
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.039
towards, where people that likely don't
have a whole lot to do with the

581
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:46.360
case still present themselves in a very
questionable, bizarre way. Or they lack

582
00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:51.880
of an affect that we expect them
to have, they lack a grief reaction

583
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:54.039
that we expect them to have.
So once you tell your story, I

584
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:58.400
could see stepping aside and saying,
you know what, I told you everything

585
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.320
I know. I told you quote
the truth, which I don't think Herman

586
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.760
is capable of. But if he
told him, you know what he knew,

587
00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:07.199
I could see anybody stepping aside and
saying, you'll have to talk to

588
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.519
my attorney. If you're still going
to have to talk to me, because

589
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:14.519
I've told you everything I know,
and that's all I'm gonna say. Right,

590
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.280
it doesn't benefit you necessarily as an
innocent person to come forward and talk

591
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:22.360
about that. And in Herman's case, the more coverage he would have on

592
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:28.039
this case is more and more disrespect
to his wife. Let's say he is

593
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:31.719
innocent and he and his wife did
stay together. I don't need for years

594
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:37.559
to be talking about my pregnant lover
who was killed. You know. It's

595
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:42.559
like I don't know, it's this
is a very complicated, messy, messy

596
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:49.880
case for every single person involved is
horrific. Not every person who we likely

597
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:53.039
think is guilty is like Jewel kaylor
Right. They're not out there and like

598
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:58.519
sharing everything just so confidently saying how
much better their life is. I mean,

599
00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:00.159
we would know more about her and
if he was out there saying,

600
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:05.599
you know, my life's actually been
pretty great since Evelyn went missing, but

601
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.599
we don't have that, So maybe
he had the good sense to avoid the

602
00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:15.239
media, or he's just somebody who
really wanted to repair his relationship, which

603
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:21.280
I think he likely personally, my
opinion, wanted to avoid the media because

604
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:25.480
if you're guilty, you're better to
say nothing. We're lucky that he even

605
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:30.320
went to the police, because it
looks like Evelyn didn't have a lot of

606
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:34.920
ties with English speakers who were local. Who knows how long it could have

607
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:37.719
taken if he didn't do that much, but I guess it's not surprising that

608
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:43.079
he didn't go further and like give
interviews. Yeah, Like technically, I

609
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:45.559
don't know what herman Aguilare looks like. I don't think there are any photographs

610
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:49.599
of him on the internets. We
don't know what his wife looks like,

611
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.559
we know nothing about even know her
names. So they've been able to go

612
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:58.440
on living their lives for the next
twenty years and obviously do not get hounded

613
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:01.400
about being potential suspect in a murder. Whereas, as a comparison, jul

614
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:06.840
Kaylor has his own personal Facebook and
people spam it all the time with equal

615
00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:10.079
comments. Because of that interview.
He did it unsolved mysteries over thirty five

616
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:15.280
years ago, so regardless of whether
he's guilty or innocent, I think Herman

617
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:19.920
definitely made the wise choice by neglecting
to speak with the media. Now,

618
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.639
since Alex is technically still a missing
person, I'd like to hold out hope

619
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:25.960
that maybe he was sold, given
away, or raised by someone else.

620
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:31.400
Given the circumstances, he theoretically could
have been smuggled across the border into Mexico,

621
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:35.559
which is why it's been so hard
to track him down. But until

622
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.840
evidence emerges that he's still alive somewhere, sadly, I think it's most like

623
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:44.079
that his body was also disposed of
in San Francisco Bay and has just never

624
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.719
been found. But if either of
Evelyn's children survive, Alex and Fernando would

625
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:52.079
currently be twenty six and twenty years
old, respectively. Whatever happened, this

626
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.559
is a horribly tragic story in which
there are no less than three victims,

627
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:00.320
and it would be nice to get
a resolution at some point. If you

628
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:04.400
happen to have any information on the
murder of Evelyn Hernandez or the disappearance of

629
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:09.000
Alex Hernandez, please contact the San
Francisco Police Department at four one three five

630
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:15.079
three one zero seven one. That's
four one three, five five three one

631
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:21.800
zero seven one, Jules Ashley,
any final thoughts on this case. It's

632
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:27.639
a complex one that I'm very grateful
you guys decided to cover on this podcast.

633
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.440
It's it's one of those that hits
on so many issues, right that

634
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:37.679
are bigger than Evelyn and Alex and
Fernando. It's this idea of victimization of

635
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:46.920
pregnant women. It's the idea that
win, secrets and manipulation occur within the

636
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:53.800
dynamics of a relationship, and when
pregnancy is added into relationship, how dangerous

637
00:47:54.079 --> 00:48:00.679
that becomes for all parties involved and
even you know, extra extra partners who

638
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:05.679
are involved, how scary that can
become. And it's also this conversation about

639
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:14.320
why Evelyn and her beautiful five year
old baby and her incredible unborn child who

640
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:19.280
was weeks away from entering this world
are our days away from entering this world

641
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:28.199
did not get incredible coverage of their
deaths and missing status. Right would we

642
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:35.000
be talking about this case had they
been the Lacy Peterson of that day,

643
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:37.760
Right, if they had been on
the front cover of a newspaper, if

644
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:44.000
we had given the resources at the
department to them, if the community had

645
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:49.079
been vigilant and demanded answers, if
herman had been questioned more, would we

646
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:52.320
be talking about this case? I
don't think so. And like I said,

647
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:57.599
I could do an hour too long
podcast simply talking about the ideal victim

648
00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:02.800
and the media coverage that they receive
and how inaccurate and how much that misrepresents

649
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:09.480
violence in our communities. But the
reality is is, how do you provide

650
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:14.719
every family and every victim with justice. How do you provide them with the

651
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:21.559
resources they deserve? Because every single
one of them is someone's wife, daughter,

652
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:25.679
son, husband, brother, best
friend. They're all somebody to some

653
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:31.719
body, and so we don't have
the ability to solve that problem. But

654
00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:37.840
could we do better as a media, as a society, Could we do

655
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:44.880
better at providing more accurate representation and
utilizing the limited resource we have in a

656
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:47.559
better way. There's got to be
something that we can do. And so

657
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.480
my heart is broken for Evelyn's family. My heart is broken at the fact

658
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:58.960
that it's likely these two little boys
had their whole futures taken away from them.

659
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.360
Most likely, in my opinion,
because of selfishness and because of a

660
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:10.960
narcissistic desire to have what one wanted
right and not what was the right thing

661
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:16.159
to do. Oh man, it's
one of those of my blood's got to

662
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:22.360
calm down when we stop recording,
because it's inconceivable to think that this is

663
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:27.039
a reality and not just some mystery
that I'm reading. It's a real case

664
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:30.320
where Evelyn lost her life, where
Alex and Fernando likely lost their life.

665
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:34.039
So I guess, at the end
of the day, if it be a

666
00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:38.679
miracle if someone came forward with information
dynamics change time does allow for answers and

667
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:43.719
cases, Man, would it be
very powerful to see an arrest made in

668
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:47.480
this case. But even more than
that, thank you guys for bringing attention

669
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:53.480
to these incredibly important conversations. One
thing that really strikes me with this case

670
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:58.639
is, like you just said,
Ash, Fernando and Alex likely lost their

671
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:02.119
lives too, even though we don't
know what happened to their remains, but

672
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:07.320
personally I believe they're likely in the
San Francisco Bay, just like their mother.

673
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:12.639
But what really gets me is that
little Alex was a little human.

674
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:16.800
He was in this world, He
was of this world and people interacted with

675
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:21.519
him, and I really wish that
we knew more about him as a little

676
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:23.880
boy. I think it would add
so much. And I think we know

677
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:29.280
so little of each of the individuals
in this case, and that's really heartbreaking.

678
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:32.079
But I think we know so much
more about Evelyn because she was an

679
00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:36.760
adult. But we see this so
often in cases with children, where we're

680
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:40.719
given such limited information and all we
want is to be able to tell all

681
00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:46.119
of you about who this little boy
was and how he likely would have benefited

682
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:51.800
this world. And it's such an
injustice that we have this lack of information.

683
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:55.280
That somebody decided to take him from
this world before he could become an

684
00:51:55.280 --> 00:52:00.000
adult and have all of those experiences
like kissing a girl for the first time,

685
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:05.119
going to prom, you know,
getting his first job, and the

686
00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:08.920
same things were likely taken from Fernando, and that is just is so heartbreaking.

687
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:15.519
And I think that we have somebody
like Herman, who we've discussed throughout,

688
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:20.800
is a destructive and potentially dangerous person. I think the walls were closing

689
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:25.119
in on him and he did something
that was an act of desperation, most

690
00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:30.559
likely because he wanted to keep his
wife from finding out about the affair,

691
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.360
And we don't know if Hermann told
his wife about the affair, if she

692
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:38.559
found out about the affair, and
what was the timeline for that. Maybe

693
00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:43.400
after he went to police he told
her about the affair because he was trying

694
00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:45.519
to get ahead of it, but
he only told her just enough information,

695
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:51.000
not about the pregnancy. It seems
that we aren't privy to those exact details.

696
00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:54.280
But either way, it seems likely
that the wife could have potentially given

697
00:52:54.360 --> 00:53:00.320
a false alibi for a myriad of
reasons, because if she is financially dependent,

698
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:07.119
she would want to continue that support
and her life would change catastrophically if

699
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:10.360
she told the police they know he
wasn't there or yes, he may have

700
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:15.400
potentially done this, So I can
understand the reasons that would underlie a potential

701
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:22.119
decision to fabricate certain details to the
police, and also maybe wanting to distance

702
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:25.280
herself from the fact that her husband
could have potentially been capable of doing such

703
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:30.679
a heinous act. This is just
such a travesty. I do not think

704
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:34.000
that Scott Peterson had anything to do
with it, and I think the connections

705
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:38.039
to the two cases are so so
tenuous and very very weak, and it's

706
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:44.440
just it breaks my heart anything that
involves children and involves pregnant women and people

707
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:47.880
that are so vulnerable, they're the
hardest to cover and the hardest to listen

708
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:52.280
to. Yeah, we had a
lot of discussions on our episodes about the

709
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:57.719
comparison between this and the Lacy Peterson
case. By one case got more media

710
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.880
coverage than the other. But in
a way, I think one of the

711
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:05.079
silver linings is because of the tenuous
connection to the Lacy Peterson case, that's

712
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:08.599
why Evelyn's story and Alex's story wound
up getting any coverage at all. Because

713
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:12.920
I have a feeling that if Lacey
had not been murdered nine months later,

714
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.480
we might not have heard of this
at all, like it would have.

715
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:17.880
They probably would have reported on Evelyn's
torso being found, but we would have

716
00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:22.039
learned very little about her background,
very little about Alex, very little about

717
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:25.960
her affair with herman So. At
the very least, even though it's completely

718
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:31.199
ridiculous that Scott's defense team was trying
to blame like a serial killer or a

719
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:37.000
satanic cult on murdering Lacey and Evelyn
in a group of pregnant women, at

720
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:39.239
least it did put Evelyn's case on
the spotlight, and that's one of the

721
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:44.239
main reasons we know about it today. But still it has gotten nowhere near

722
00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:47.400
as much coverage as it deserves because
we've talked about there are so many pieces

723
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:52.000
of the puzzle missing. We don't
know a lot about Herman himself, We

724
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:54.440
don't know a lot about his wife, and we don't what are many details

725
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:59.920
missing about his relationship with Evelyn,
And like Jules says, we don't know

726
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:02.639
much about Alex as a boy,
as a person, and that's kind of

727
00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:06.719
the sad thing is that this case
has been out of the spotlight for many

728
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:10.280
years. We don't know Herman's current
whereabouts. Police have found pretty much no

729
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:15.400
evidence at all linking to any specific
suspects, and even though I do think

730
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:20.000
that Herman probably is the most likely
suspect he was the one who had the

731
00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:24.159
motive to murder not one, but
two, but three people, there is

732
00:55:24.199 --> 00:55:29.760
just nothing to officially implicate him because
there was such a delay reporting Evelyn and

733
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.800
Alex missing, So who knows how
much evidence could have been cleaned up.

734
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:37.039
I mean, maybe the big breakthrough
is one day, maybe Herman's wife will

735
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:40.599
break up with him and decide to
come forward. For all we know,

736
00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:45.119
maybe she knows incriminating information about him
that could break this case wide open,

737
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:50.599
but until that happens, it's nothing
more than speculation. But it is a

738
00:55:50.599 --> 00:55:54.679
horrific case because not only did Evelyn
and Alex likely lose their lives, but

739
00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:59.519
Fernando probably did as well before he
had the chance to be born. So

740
00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:04.440
we have technically one murder and two
missing children who are probably dead. And

741
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:07.280
I just hope that one of these
days we will get the full truth about

742
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:15.119
what happened and that all three of
these victims will get justice. Robin,

743
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:16.840
do you want to tell us a
little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?

744
00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:21.559
Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has
been around for three years now,

745
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:25.679
and we offer these standard bonus features
like early ad free episodes, and I

746
00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:30.199
also send out stickers and sign thank
you cards to anyone who signs up with

747
00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:35.440
us on Patreon. If you join
our five dollar tier Tier two, we

748
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:39.880
also offer monthly bonus episodes in which
I talk about cases which are not featured

749
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:44.760
on the Trail Went Cold's original feeds, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and

750
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:47.719
if you join our highest tier tier
three, the ten dollars. Tier One

751
00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:52.960
of the features we offer is a
audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaw

752
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:58.400
Mysteries, where you can download an
audio file and then boot up the original

753
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:04.000
Unsaw Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
YouTube and play it with my audio commentary

754
00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:07.039
playing in the background, where I
just provide trivia and factoids about the cases

755
00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:12.280
featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did

756
00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:15.559
a commentary track over was the episode
featuring this case. So if you want

757
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:21.039
to download a commentary track in which
I make more smartass remarks about Jewel Kaylor

758
00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:23.480
than be sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you know

759
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:28.199
a little bit about the Jewels and
Ashley Patreons. So there's early ad free

760
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:31.079
episodes of The Path Went Chili.
We've got our Path Went Chili minis,

761
00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:35.320
which are always over an hour,
so they're not very mini, but they're

762
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:38.000
just too short to turn into a
series, and we're really enjoying doing those,

763
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:42.079
so we hope you'll check out those. Patreons will link them in the

764
00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:45.840
show notes. So I want to
thank you all for listening and any chance

765
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:49.079
you have to share us on social
media with a friend or to rate and

766
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:52.599
review is greatly appreciate it. You
can email us at the path went Chili

767
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.280
at gmail dot com. You can
reach us on Twitter at the pathwin.

768
00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:00.480
So until next time, be sure
to bundle up because cold trails and chilly

769
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:04.960
pass call for warm clothing. Music
by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy