You're listening to kf I am six on demand. Jay, Welcome to the
Jesus Christ Show. Hi Jesus, Hi Jay. I'm going to join a
church because for all the wrong reasons, oh boy, because I don't want
to join a country club. I'm sick of golf and tennis. I'm looking
for a little fellowship. And yeah, maybe I'm doing it for all the
wrong reasons. But I think once I get through the door and I get
in there and part of the program, I think good things will stuck to
happen. What do you think. I think that's a great idea. There's
nothing wrong with I mean, yeah, you're saying because you're you fall into
the realm of skepticism. I've always been a skeptic. Okay, well,
do you know what the philosophy of skepticism is? Boy, how'd you like
to hear it? It is to suspend judgment upon all things. Okay,
that's hard to believe, Okay, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what's
funny about it, is like a I guess you suspend judgment on all things
excepticism. So it's it's one of those kind of belief systems that that is
can be healthy if it's propelling you forward if you can't sit in skepticism because
by the very nature that means you you are accepting skepticism, which is a
non skeptical thing to do. So I'm not just a grubby old guy.
Yeah that could be as well. So the important thing is is that you're
moving forward in life and try it out. What can I hurt sit but
receive it. If you sit there in a restaurant and you don't want to
taste anything, and you don't want to really experience anything, then you're not
it's not going to do you any good. You might catch the eye of
somebody and you might have a chat and that'll be fine, but you're not
going to experience truly the restaurant unless you're consuming of its goods. So I'm
hoping that if if you go in, you're going in to receive and to
see what's there and truly experience it. I don't think that is against skepticism,
honest skepticism in any way, shape or form. But to sit in
your skeptic bubble U is a it's not productive because the skeptic is still seeking
has to be well. I kind of like the idea of fellowship among people
that that believe in uh, you know, high self esteem. You know
certain in certain areas that you go to, there are people there that that
genuinely feel bit about themselves. And I think that's kind of a step in
the right direction. Yes, and often, and I'm not a fan of
churches that do that pretending with the smiles and everybody's always honky doory and all
that. But if there's genuine peace, Scripture says that there's a piece that
surpasses understanding that it's it's not based on what most people experience jay, which
is happiness, and happiness is a momentary feeling of joy due to a happening.
So if something goes on, you have cake, you have a party,
somebody's nice to you, and you get this boost or this rush of
this like little window to joy, and then it goes away. Whereas a
true believer should be finding that that that place of joy, which is something
you experience regardless of the circumstances around you or whether things are good or bad.
It should be joy based on the sheer existence and understanding that you're created
by a creator who has a purpose. And then you know there are people
that tend to flock together in groups. Like there's people that are well with
skeptics, of course, but then there's people that are just down on everything
they tend to get get into groups, and then there's people that are up
more upbeat, and they tend to hang out together. Well, yes,
that can be the case. It's different like different chemicals that bond together,
or different textures that fit together, or different colors that fit together, and
things like that. But with human beings, quite often it's much easier to
bring someone down than it is to bring someone up. So even in a
group where there's a lot of positivity or happiness or true joy, it's it
can be difficult if somebody comes in who's a black cloud and really trying to
bring the room down. And you've seen that happen as well, you can.
It seems it seems that the darkness can suck the light out of a
room sometimes, but the grouping can meet different ways. I've seen people come
in in very dark places in their life, jay very ugly, ugly,
ugly dark places in their life, and come into a room with genuine believers,
good godly people who don't have weird agendas, who aren't just about the
church and this weird Churchianity or any of these things, but genuine believers that
have come to understand God, that that just penetrate deep inside that person,
and you wouldn't recognize them night and day weeks later, and they'll tell you
the same that it just being around those that are you know, in tune.
You can tell if you've ever been around an instrument that's out of tune.
I don't care if you know about instruments or not. You can hear
it. You can feel it in your bones that something's wrong, even if
you can't place your finger on it. And likewise, you know when something
is in tune and that harmony of God and the Creator and everything else,
it just it can be, It could be seen, it can be,
it could be felt. And as much as you wouldn't argue necessarily the Christian
experience theologically to somebody, especially as skeptic, because experiences are hard to quantify,
you've got to at least give it a nod and say, well,
something is taking place there and it is worthy of investigation. You can tell
a lot about a place just by the landscaping, Yeah, you sure can,
which you know what a lot of police departments feel the same way.
And a lot of neighborhoods are very adamant about the way the front yards look
because they say, once windows are broken or somebody puts a car on the
front lawn or they don't mow their lawn, that crime actually creeps in.
And my producer Neil recently before he moved, he was in an apartment complex
and he watched, he did a study, watched that one piece of trash
because he's kind of big on going around and picking up trash and things like
that. That one piece of trash when left on this one corner of the
property, and a couple of days, became two pieces of trash, then
became a broken couch, then became a broken couch and a broken table,
then became a broken couch, a broken table, and a broken television set,
then became bags of canine fecal matter, and all in a matter of
one week. It sounds like me and I yeah, so that can happen,
you know it. It tends to perpetuate. People are looking for permission
to do wrong in life quite often, or justification. And if you turn
that on, you look like you're you sound like you're on a really good
quest Jay, to find that balance and and to find out what makes people
tick and in the church, and you find a good church church, and
you have that fellowship, and you have good, healthy discussions, and maybe
even find one that that has a you know, an apologetics program or something
where they would enjoy having those types of discussions with you, or maybe talking
about skepticism or you know, the health of questioning things and those ideas,
and you might I'm only a part time skeptic. I see. Okay,
well that's that's convenient. Yeah. The way I'm curious is that on your
business card. Two things I want to leave you with as we're up against
the clock care Jay. First scripture talks about that says live a life that
people will come up to you and ask why, you know, why do
you have that hope? Why do you have hope deep inside you when things
are a mess. And secondly, I want you to think about a belief
system like Christianity that started that started Jay with a death and being nailed to
a cross, that started on a note on death, on the one thing
that everybody fears equally on earth, that says that that's the last straw that's
the end of it all. It started there. That was the seed,
that was the birth of this faith. And you won't get any lower than
that. And starting from that, the presumed ashes of that event blooms the
most resilient and arguably this is the Jesus Christ show, most beautiful faith on
the planet. Pat Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Thank you Jesus.
Frequently or occasionally, as a teacher, you come across a young student who's
not only intelligent, but shows a wisdom beyond their years, and and they're
referred to sometimes as like an old soul. And I was wondering, you
know what you had to say about reincarnation. Well, scripture is very clear.
There's their reincarnation is not playing to the Judeo Christian scriptures. It says
in Hebrews, and this is in Hebrews chapter nine, verse twenty seven,
inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.
Paul also said to be absent from the body is to be present with
the Lord. It says nothing of the sum sorrow or the cycle of life
from coming back and all of those things. I will tell you that the
old soul concept. The interesting thing is is if you came a across a
child who seemed stronger than normal, you wouldn't think they were reincarnated. You'd
think that physically, physiologically, they were created in such a way that they
had greater strength. Maybe they were going to become an athlete or something,
but they had greater strength. Intelligence is one of those things that people think,
oh, well, if they're smart, or if they're a good painter,
they must have been you know, Picasso in another lifetime. And the
funny thing was, I heard somebody say this once. There was a young
girl, a very talented painter, that painted very similar to Picasso. She
was quite young, and the early comments were, oh, my gosh,
she's Picasso reincarnated. However, if you look at Picasso's history and you look
the way he propelled himself in his art, that he was constantly changing and
creating new things, not going backwards, but going forward as many artists do,
trying new things. A lot of times artists become known for a particular
style of art, but really they have gone through many different styles to get
to that place. So if Picasso was going to reincarnate, why start back
on a style that he was died propelling from that he was actually leaving at
the time. I think it's more human for people to look at that and
think, oh, well, they've come back and have this ability, when
really it's just a child who is exceptionally bright or observant and taking in more
of their surroundings and repeating them. You say wisdom, but a lot of
times it's not wisdom, it's parroting. It's children hearing things. Maybe they're
around smart people, or they're very observant, or are very aware and take
in all of the elements around them, learning words quicker, learning ideas quicker.
Maybe they're a deep feeler and they feel emotion in a way and are
able to articulate that, and so it appears that they're actually an old soul,
But really it's just a child. They still you can't drive. Put
them behind a wheel. You put an old soul behind a wheel, they
won't know how to drive. And I don't recommend trying that, by the
way, But there are things that you could put them, situations you could
put them in that would that they would fail at As children. They would
be exactly like what you'd expect a child to do. So it's if it
was reincarnation, they would still know how to drive, or they'd still know
how to do this, or they still don't know how to do that,
and it doesn't play out that way. I think it's just easier to read
into it sometimes as adults that children aren't as dumb as some adults think they
are, and so when they stand up and they say something smart, I
think it's kind of partly based on the bias of the adult, assuming that
the child's not going to say something smart, and because the child happens to
be exceptionally observant. Reincarnation is a really there's more to it than that,
but scripture doesn't allow for it. There's no place in scripture. Wasn't taken
out as scripture as some people contend. Either on its face, there are
problems with reincarnation. The westernized reincarnation really is a manufactured want to be based
on the actual Eastern belief and Westerners believe, oh, well, gosh,
it's like a do over. That's not what it's there for. It's and
reincarnation is not considered a good thing, and most Eastern beliefs it's a refinement
of sort. But it means you didn't get it right the first time.
Greg. Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hello Jesus Thy Greg. I've
got a unique situation. I'm not sure how to ask my question or question
my wife. Last year she murdered my infant son, my toddler, and
she has a trunk coming up here soon. And for what I understand her
defense, she's pleading insanity, and her defense of course let's come on trial.
But I think that she feels that she was speaking with God and that
God instructed her to help my son go to heaven. And I guess my
question basically is a couple There's a couple lines of thought here. At first,
if it's reasonably sane to speak to God, then why under certain circumstances
is it considered insane if he speaks to you. And secondly, if someone
firmly believes that God is instructing him to do something, even something that is
horrendous, but they believe it, is it possible that that is doing God's
will? Yeah, I don't know how to put the words, but no,
I think you're I think you're doing an amazing job. Actually, you
ask a question that's part of theology, but really seated in one of the
most horrific life experiences anyone can go through. So imagine where I sit.
There's answers I want to give you, and I will. But when you're
telling me that your wife killed your your son because she heard God tell her,
So that's that's outside of the realm of academics, wouldn't you say?
I would think so. And I'm trying to which is from an academic perspective,
because if I dive into the emotion and the feeling, it would rip
me to shreds. More So, I think it's a protective mechanism for me.
All right, are you a person of faith? Greg? Uh?
It's questionable right now. Sure, let's just put it that way. I'm
into sciences, that's okay. They're not mutually exclusive. Oh they are not,
and most people don't understand that. But you know, I there was
after the murder, lady with the best intentions of the world. You know,
she's trying to find solace. But when she said that this was God's
will, that really hurt. And if this is God's will, I look
forward to having a talk with him at some point. Yeah, I would
imagine that would be completely legitimate. Yeah, I'll tell you this. There
are there are things in scripture people will point to Abraham and Isaac and the
calling of him to kill his son. And the interesting part when you go
into that in scripture is the words that Abraham uses. He's supposed to go
up on the mountain and take the life of his son, so commanded by
God. The words he uses as he tells the guys at the base of
the mountain is here, hold this, watch this, I and my son
will return shortly. Now, this is someone who's been commanded to kill their
son, and yet his statement was that they're both going to return, which
is the belief in his mind that either God was not going to have him
follow through with it, or that God would rectify it and reverse it if
necessary. There is not any examples that you're going to go through in scripture
that's going to meet the experience that you are going through currently. But I
will tell you this that there are specific usages of that kind of dialogue with
God, but they don't exist in the New Testament, and they would not
exist except under the most extreme of circumstances here on this earth at this time,
in this way. So It would be the equivalent of somebody knowing you,
Greg and saying, Greg, is this type of person? Well,
if somebody called me and sounded like you, Greg and told me to do
something that was so out of the out of character of everything I knew about
you, I would automatically know that it wasn't you telling me. And in
this particular case, your wife was battling with what is thought to be severe
bipolar Correct, that's one of the rumors that get started. She was never
diagnosed to my knowledge, Okay, and is this These facts would come out
in the trial, obviously, and so there was no sign of any mental
illness prior. Well, she was troubled and what do you what do you
mean by troubled? Right, she Well, I don't want to get into
the specifics because of the trial, but sure no. But the last months
to two months she u she had some issues that she began a downward spiral
and it became it was pretty hard. And then she what she evidently had
done was it's like after the fact, when you see a jigsaw puzzled it
together, the pieces don't make sense the forehead. Sure no, no,
it makes sense afterwards. And she was telling different people, different things,
and then collectively a huge red flag was that. But I missed it,
and other people that were close to her missed it. But she I remember
one evening she told me that God had given her the secrets to the universe,
and it was it ended up being a heated discussion and that she she
did not think that I would ever understand, and so she got very defensive
and very upset with me, and so at that point she stopped really talking
to me about any of this stuff. And so you know, and she
also had another sun who his home on the day of the murder, and
he's he's living through his own personal health right now. Now, did the
boy uh see the aftermath? Or yes? There's no words, Greg that
are going to comfort you in the sense that your child is gone. Your
boy was killed at the hands of his mother, and we're talking about a
mother taking the life of her child. I didn't call for I didn't think
there were words, and I really don't know why I called, but I
was Are you mad at God? I've got anger, absolutely, I'm mad
at myself not seeing the scigenist? But what sign? What what does a
sign like that look like to a sane human being. It doesn't you're trying
to rationalize something that's your rationalist. Yeah, if you could think like that,
you'd be the one with the issue. True, there's now if you
let something go on and go on and go on. But when you're in
you know, when we say this on on the program a lot that the
lifeguard is out of the pool for a reason. You know you can't you're
in the middle of it, Greg. And there's times where I've had people
on the air and we've been talking and when they've experienced something and you know
that they're at the end of a long journey of stupid decisions and you look
at them and you say, didn't you see this? And they say,
yeah, I saw this and this and this and this, and they saw
a huge line of them that you can look them in the eye and say,
shame on you. You knew this from before you got into this place.
But your wife being in her late thirties at the time, correct.
There are it's outside of the scope of this program, but there are psychological
problems that tend to menace fest in the thirties, and there are things that
can come up that weren't there before, and there are changes chemically that can
go on in a person's head, and their brain can go from one speed
to another speed. And it's an ugly part of truth and life as you
know it and experience it. And you had someone that you knew in love,
that you brought a child into this world with, and that you created
a family with that became a monster of outrageous proportions unfathomable by your average human
being. And how are you going to see the signs of that unless they
are so drastic, I mean, talking about God or even having bizarre concepts
of God. That doesn't that doesn't make you crazy, you know they're My
producer, Neil often says that not everybody in the church is crazy, but
everybody that's crazy is in the church because there's something about religion that brings that,
that tends to attract that or combine with that or whatever it is.
And in this particular case, you're seeing the most ugly signs of that that
combination. Greg, hold on a second as we take a break, because
I still want to talk to you, all right, hold on, Greg,
you're still there, Thanks for holding. Obviously, your story is so
is so outside of normalcy to even you know, even the things I hear,
and trust me, I hear a lot, and I'm overwhelmed by your
your courage to make the call and to bring people up to speed, Greg,
Greg's wife took the life of their seventeen month old boy wear their own
hands. This is there's You're still sitting with a lot of questions, and
I know that you're going to be angry. You're going to be angry at
God, You're going to be angry at your wife and confused. This is
the woman you love, that you wanted to have a family with, and
now to try and make sense of it. Something definitely was going wrong.
As far as your question, Greg, about if God, if people can
talk with God, and God can talk with people, and God can tell
people things and motivate them and encourage them down directions, why couldn't God say
something so heinous? And the simple response is that it's against the nature of
God as he stays now, as he's shown himself in scripture and revelation.
There is what they call special revelation and general revelation. So general revelation is
that when you look at the universe, Greg, when you observe even through
the sciences when you look at creation. The whole reason why believers say they
believe in creation is that when you look at Mount Rushmore, for instance,
you don't look at that as a reasonable person and say that happened because of
erosion. It doesn't make sense. It has design and specificity in its very
nature. So that's general revelation that you can look at something and you can
tell a lot about it by just observing it as it is. You can
tell that a watch didn't just happen because of ore and metals and silicone and
all these things coming together. You look at it say this is handcrafted.
And then there's specific revelation that is the Bible, That is that there are
specific things said by God and that have been passed down to man, and
in both of those they scream against the harming of one another. In nature
and creation. It cannot perpetuate if you had that kind of blatant disregard for
your children. And God is never going to tell you to do something that
is against the very nature of God. Thou shalt not kill? Really is
thou shalt not murder? The word there in the Hebrews rot shah means to
dice into pieces the innocent, and everything that your wife did was contrary to
the Word of God in its current stand in its current form, and its
current teachings. So it is no more different than, as I said,
for you to say something that was out of character so much so that I
would disregard it on its face, because it's outside of the character in the
realm and structure and understanding that I have of who you are. Something went
wrong with your wife, whether that's chemical or whatever. That's not for the
scope of this show. That does happen to some, but it certainly would
never excuse such a heinous act to take place. And you know, I'm
not a big fan of the pleading when it comes to insanity. From what
I understand, the legal definitions are paramount, and only that through the trial
of course. Well, I mean, obviously there's my opinion there's something wrong
with her, and but whether alleviates her from her responsibility, of course,
that's up to the jury, you know, to decide. Sure, and
it needs to be a level of accountability always, And the things of the
spiritual nature, the things of God are different, and the there's a difference
between the price that needs to be paid here on Earth versus what we'll take
place in heaven is a whole nother issue. But I know that time goes
by quickly on the program and our time is cut short. But I want
to talk to you off the air. If you can hang tight just for
a moment, think as I'd like to pray with you as well. Kf
I am six on demand