Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the Planet of the Apes
retrospective. I am but why dress now? And I'm joined by I am
the Mutant Kirklan Patzer. Yes, we hopefully should be joined by Taylor Field
at any second. He's in the Forbidden Zone right now. He saw some
fire and you just started running to like a mad man. Oh but yeah,
well, well we got lots to talk about today. But yeah,
I'm not sure. I guess we'll be coming out like April Marchs. I
don't know what's going on in the geek realms. But as always, if
you like what we do, or if you just listening to this to now
you went, hey, I want to get all the rest of those episodes,
probably by time this is out for the public. Everything we're doing,
every single plan in the Apes movie. We're even going back to the news
work because I think the newest one's also. You want to get a date
there, kirkle When did War for Planning Eights come out? Because our rules
we don't retrospective movies that haven't been five years older at least, and I
think that I think that fits now. I think it's been five years twenty
seventeen. Yeah, we're going five years. Yeah, and none of us
other than Taylor were I actually came, remember too. I think it was
just Briggs and Dylan. Actually I can't remember something like that. But yeah,
we're gonna do them all. We're gonna do the original series here,
we're doing the remake, and we're doing the trilogy all the lead up to
Kingdom of the Plan of the Apes and uh, at this time, Kirklan,
it's like months old. But you saw the trailer we were recording this
at the time. That was it, Marvelski. Did you like that trailer
Apes? Yeah, that was the first time I've seen the trailer was in
the big screen. I I liked it. It's funny because I haven't seen
there's been two since the Franco one, right, yes, yeah, so
I haven't seen any of those. I've only seen that first one. So
obviously a lot has happened since the end of that first movie to what they're
showing off here in this trailer. So it's been a big jump. It
seems like the Apes kind of won that battle, but it looked really good.
So yeah, I would say I'm excited, and especially that we're going
through these Apes movies. Yeah, very different vibe than what I got on
that big screen trailer. But yeah, yeah, you're not gonna have any
monkeys at nukes in that one. Who knows, but we'll see. That's
how it ends, right mm hmm. Find the big bomb and that's how
they get rid of it. Damn. So as usual, head down the
links for everything you need to know is down below. Video feeds, audio
feeds, Patreon as talking about you can get episodes at free, you can
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us know what you think of it's a review that'd be positively great. And
yeah, I can get head over to Discord that's always popping off and it's
always a good time over there. So we are going to be talking about,
uh, the today's episode Beneath the Planet of the Apes sequel. Oh,
look at this, it's just almost just like Brent. He came in
very last year. There we go. So Kirkle'll give me your rating out
of ten on this movie. We're closing it out. Oh, we're joined
by two thousand years to the field. We worried for a second. Oh
yeah, weod predictions, we predictions. What was going on? Yeah,
with a like no no, no, no, leave it. I just
printed this on. Yeah you're out. Well, we haven't gone anywhere yet,
so I'll give you a little more time to recover. I'm gonna go
first because there's a method of why I'll go first, and people know if
they're a long time listeners. If not, I'll explain after. I know,
boys, what the fuck happened here? I don't really know, like,
and that's where I'll go because I tried to go put negative deposits most
of the time, and I don't know what these gentlemens are. Feelings are
like, but I don't mine are like, and I really don't know.
I I gave my feelings like a little bit last last week when we recorded
this, because it's just hard not to, and I said we should do
this as a topic at one point, and luckily in our timeline, this
actor shrike is done, so we'll begin movies and stuff again. But maybe
the future at some point low times will do it, because think about a
sequel and you have a great movie to such a drop down. This has
this, to me is easily on the top ten list. I think I
could make a case for number one, and there's like two minds of it.
I'll try to go from like the what they should should or could have
done. It's none of this, none of this, Like I watched Plan
the Apes and then I get to this, it's like, oh, this
is what they should be doing. And then okay, if I'm basing it
on, take out the expectations right, because I feel like even as a
kid, I felt this way. It's like, what, like this is
really odd. I was happy Charlton Hesson was back in it, but I
was thrown off by the whole thing. And we'll get into it. But
okay, so throw out the because you never should remove the movie or review
the movie. It's not right. Okay, throw out though what I thought
it should have been. And then when it actually is, when you have
the first five plus minutes we're talking less today of the movie just being the
end of the first movie, that's not a good sign. And this movie
is only an hour and a half already, so it's it's about twenty five
minutes shorter than the other one. The first half an hour is almost just
a make of the first one, like it's not, but it's it's exact
same scenarios and then we meet this organization. I think it's one of these
things that it doesn't flow. It's tough because you can't watch it on its
own, so it doesn't work that way in a sequel. I think if
you're watching it as a continuation, it really doesn't work. It feels very
sped up. It feels where we left off, and not even some of
them mute and stuff. Just in general, the route we're going with the
apes. It's a big escalation and it's weird. There's some stuff they bring
up here, like there's the apes and grills, infighting, they have these
the monkeys actually at one point some them have signs and they're picketing and annoying.
Change. It's just like there's signs where it's like, oh, that's
the way like I thought they would have been going if you look at the
first movie and all the signs they were point towards, no pin tam of
the signs. But it just feel like, oh, this would have been
a more natural course where this is a complete one eighty. This is going
off a cliff. I don't really understand it. And that's why this movie
in its sense is still not good. The actions like kind of messy and
rush not the first great action, but there's just like multiple times where people
getting shot and there's no blood anywhere, and it's just like this was a
successful, big movie, but we talked about I'll talk about too. Uh
there was a reason why. Also, like some of the monkeys, they
don't look as good as the first one. There was a lot of reasons
towards that. So yeah, it's just it's a messy movie. It feels
rushed. It really wanted Charlton Heston back for the full thing, and it
doesn't get it. So like he closes the movie and he ends the movie
like it's like he's not our main character, but they sure frame him that
way. And uh, yeah, Like I'm trying to think of positive positives.
I got stories about Heston coming back. I don't think he like phoned
it in. He's not in it too much. I don't think he like
phoned it in. Like I said, some of those kind of infighting between
apes. But I don't really have much here. This is a tough one,
and like I said, this was one even as a kid. I
did not watch much. I always just jumped to concord or escape after this.
I usually never watched this one because there's not there's not much. It's
just like a lesser than virgin thrown in with some heavy like like I'm curious
how much cocaine these people have had when they're doing this movie, because I
just don't I don't see the natural evolution from plan the Apes to Beneath.
It is a complete mess. And I'm excited to talk about because there's many
times that I'm just like, what was going on here? Like what what
was the thinking? And yeah, it's it's undescribable. It feels like one
of those movies we read when you read a sequel and it got cancer,
like oh yeah, good thing that sounded like it was awful, but it's
like made it through again, there's a reason made it through. I'll get
to it. In the trivia. They were having some budgetary issues, like
just over all the companies. That's why they're pushing movies that they thought could
make a profit on. So yeah, I'm not a fan of this movie,
not even in like a nostalgia I think if I were to if we
were to watch it all together in the room, we'd have a great time.
But that's the example of watching with the group of people, watching alone
and watching alone. Man, do I feel alone watching this piece of shit?
So yeah, not for me, but I'm excited to talk about you
guys because there's quite a few ridiculous things. So he said you were curious,
but the faces of the people and the writers were probably like this when
they when they got that final draft. The studio came here hot for a
good reason. Yeah, this was a very very strange one because obviously i'd
like, just coming off that first episode that we did, you were kind
of warning me about the quality, like the dish. I I definitely have
seen this. I I didn't think I had, but like back in the
day on the VDHS collection, I must have just seen them all and just
kind of memories. Forget the people, but there was many many hitting points
and like certain characters that I totally remember, like as soon as I saw
them. So although like I did see it before, I feel like I
still was just shocked with certain events that came. And uh, yeah,
this was such a perplexing film because like I really really enjoyed that first one.
I thought what they did with just yeah, like the concepts of the
apes treating the human like that was just so interesting and coming to this one,
although I had low expectations, I just was absolutely shocked of like where
we actually went with the plot in this It really just felt like like a
really really really bad fan fiction. But like they still had like the actors
and characters and like the props from the first movie, so it was like
almost like Star Wars Christmas Special, you know, where they had like all
the actors back, but it's like, what is actually going on on screen?
This is just so strange to put two and two together, And that's
really how this one felt, because it just seems like you said, a
lesser than version of the first one. I just feel like this is a
completely different film that they really have like probably less than ten minutes of actual
like the society aspect of Planet of the Planet of the Apes, and like,
yeah, it just seems like they didn't they weren't like like they didn't
even go through the events of the first movie other than that opening like five
minute sequence. It was just it was really really separated, and I just
had such a hard time getting through this movie, even though it was so
much short, or sorry, so much shorter. I remember I just like
paused it. Later in the film there was like seventeen minutes left. I'm
like, are you fucking serious? Like, how did I get to the
end here. It's just I was in this weird, psychologic, psychedelic state
of just watching this movie. Just it was so strange. It was I
was definitely laughing out loud. But it was not as fun of experience of
the first movie. I was, because, yeah, it's very lonely filmed
to be watching alone where it's like the first movie when I like, I
watched that one alone and I just felt like I was having a good time.
I was totally engaged. But this one it had me head squatch sketches
head scratching multiple times squatch. But I definitely echo what you said. It
was just like as soon as it started, of like the ending of the
last film, I feel like that was kind of like my peak of interest
because I'm just remembering that first movie and then we have a recreation of like
Taylor part. I almost thought it was like a dream sequence that this is
just like a different Tellian of these cares because he even looked like the actor
looks very similar to even the apes or like Taylor's back, and that's and
that's why I like, yeah, you're right where it's not the whole movie's
a lesson, it's just that first half an hour because it's like it's the
same. Then will go over like them landing and find the apes he looks
like Heston and like, no, I'll find the actor's name because I can't
remember who it is. But like, no disrespecting him Franciscus or something like
that, James Franciscus, Like no, like, no disrespect to him.
I don't even think he's I don't think he's bad in here. I think
he's just given a task to be Charles Heston like, and you can't,
you can't, you can't. Yeah, I'm trying, you can't. He
Charlton Heston is so charismatic that even that this guy is like has chrisma,
it feels like he has none of it because like you're just like there's something
about like we said before, there's something about Taylor in that movie where he's
not a great guy, but you're still rooting for him, and it's just
like it's a it's a very Jack Nicholson asked for there's something about him where
this it's like you get time to you learn less about this guy than you
did with Taylor. And he's alone. He doesn't have his first buddy dies
just like right away, so it's like he has more time alone. He
doesn't want to conserve the water and stuff. But yeah, it's just tough
because I feel like I don't think he's bad, it's just it's they they
just made a proto toop just they just it's like they're read for Hesson.
He's like, no, I I'd rather just do like ten minutes like,
okay, well, who else do we got? We'll get this guy.
He looks a lot like and we'll talk about now. It's gonna wait till
later. The fucking weirdest I've never realized this in my life. I'm watching
it today. I had to pause because why is Charlton Heston so much bigger
than Thistor? This looks like Chorlton Hessen with his son, and like I'm
telling you, people like the way they like I'm telling you. And this
is a photo on film, it looks even crazier in full screen. I
saw him like towers over like look at even his arm length. He looks
like he's about to pick up this small child, like oh dad, Like
I could not believe how much bigger Psston was and I'm like, oh my
god, just baby baby Brant right there, and like before it takes my
favorite thing is like bigg it's because he went missing, so Brent would think
like Taylor is famous. But when he gets in jail cell he's like Taylor
and then Taylor tuns Are, He's like, you're Brent. I think right,
I get every turn they cut this character down and like not be as
important, but you know, yeah, what can you do? What can
you do? Taylor? What do you feel about this? Uh? First
of all, I guess, yeah, had you seen this movie before?
Beneath the play on the apes? And now what are you thinking of it?
Oh? Yeah, I've seen I've I've seen all of them before,
and this this one just maybe someone's first episode, you know this one,
idiot? What would yes? This? It's like meis this one? I
like the I like everything up until we get to the crazy advanced psychic humans.
That's pretty much you like everything. So you're finally like, I'm totally
okay with it being similar in certain attributes to like the first one or aspects.
I guess, uh in retrospect now when you when you mentioned all those
things, it totally is a carbon copy and some degrees and uh yeah,
but if they land, someone dies, he meets nova, they get captured.
Cornelis and Zero again are shocked that there's a talking human even though they
just met, like you couldn't talk, Like, like, Cornelius, how
long has it been since then since Charlton Heston has like left the village too,
It's not like it's been years where they like forgot about them. Cornelis,
absolutely, I love that because like the pure shock, like the human
has never spoken, like when in their their time, and all of a
sudden one speaks like, oh my god, this is crazy, and all
of a sudden another one speaks. He shows up wearing alien clothes. But
they knew. But the other two as well, remember that Taylor came with
it, didn't hear him talk, but they knew. They got lo bottomized
and like they knew that they I don't think, well, I don't think
Cornelius and Zero do that. I think that was like they could assume they
saw their fucking Oh look there's my buddy up there. And then but I
don't fucking cut up. But knew and she she was like, oh,
like quiet, they knew that they could fucking talk. But it would have
been different though, because I mean, look how they tried with Taylor in
comparison, I feel like that was okay. They talked, and Zias was
like, okay, just fucking lobottomize these guys before they get out to the
public, or at least we know now to the gorillas, Like if you
talk by the gorillas, the grillas just they'll do shit to you and like
no one else, So yeah, that's off. Yeah, throw big fucking
boulders back and forth. They'll put you on a horse and just met you
for no reason. I get. I get why the grills are the leader
because they're shrink, but like in this movie, they definitely show why they
should not be, like leading the army decisions. You know, they shoot
and I just love what's his name? YenS No, No, like he
knows what it is. He's like, no, don't do that, like
you can't leave a clip in it. I'm pretty sure he like says that
too. He's just stuck with these fucking idiot gorillas. You're just like trying
to stink themselves. But yeah, I've never really grown to like the back
half. When they get into the subway. I think it's cool to go
into the subway. I like that's that piece. But then just you have
this advanced dystopian human civilization that's down there that's very psychic based. I don't
enjoy that, And I don't like how it all concludes with them just launching
the nuke. I think that's where it gets really down the dumps for me.
I really like brand I like seeing another human show up. I like
seeing him with like the spaceship and then knowing like, okay, they went
to pursue and we get a little backstory on the fact that there's like this
time slip that they went into, and that sets the pace for the next
film, which I definitely enjoy that one more than this one, Like you,
Travis, but you have if we weren't retroing it. For the most
part, I feel like I just watched the first half with Brent just doing
what he's doing, trying to find Taylor. I do I really, Yeah,
what's the part when you turn it off? Like, what's the endpoint
probably as soon as great guys like no, no, probably when the guy's
like my god and like because he's praying to the nuke and like Brent's like,
with the fuck's wrong with this guy? It just ends or even too
like if you don't because you don't see the psychic people yet, So when
Brent just starts fucking drowning nova, you're like, what the fuck is going
on? Like it just really dark ending. Men are bad men are How's
anyone supposed to follow that? Because you don't know about the psychic people yet.
That's why you watched the whole movie you have you literally have to cut
it off of the subway. So then it's the exact same thing because same
thing they do the fucking that's our sorry for this guy. They do the
same ending of Planets one where they find a landmark and he's like I used
to live in my own dum you, but they don't. He doesn't get
that hester and like oh, like he's just like I worked dear with my
friends. Like he's just like he's saying shit, It's like I just want
to Taylor, like can we find him? Like come on? But like
they literally that's the best spart ended then is when he gets the subway and
it's just another bleak ending. He literally just watched another white Man land and
find out that he's on the planet that that used to be Earth, and
then he ended there like the ending of this movie, though, I'm so
confused on how we're gonna be getting to the third movie importantly, just the
Earth paradox Duke, Oh yeah, spoilers was on VHS. Well, she's
on VHS. Yeah, but it well explain, you know, and all
it's snake eating its own tail and stuff like that. But of course,
yeah, of course, but I think that's where you ended him in the
subway, That's where I ended. Yeah, everyone watched this again because that's
just he discovers that it's Earth, and that's the same thing as the first
movie. He discovers Earth, right, and it just ends. It doesn't
end with like, oh they was gonna go back and kill the apes.
Yeah, it's the exact same, just rolls like they could have made this
into two films, because it definitely is. It's rushed. I would have
taken a film of I would have loved the full film of brench just landing
and just seeing like what the fuck's going on? And like more extended time
with him and Taylor and just that kind of partnership going Onston. This is
as much as they could get, Haston. They were lucky he agreed to
this, and then I can't. I think I have because I did Trivia
a while back. He donated his whole his whole pace sub charity, so
he didn't even like really want Yeah, I'll try and find out before we
go, because I know we're gonna talk about Hessen a lot. So you
have to make me massive though. That's my one condition. Give me these
stilts and everything like that. Here we go, So he donated salary charity.
Charlton Heston was reluctant reprise the role, of believing that tita struggles were
what drove the first movie, and that the story had already reached its conclusion,
which he was right. A sequel, in his opinion, would be
a lackluster of venture Bunks Monkeys. He eventually agreed to appear on one condition
that his scenes had to be shot within two week period. He also insisted
that Taylor had to be killed. He had to agree to a compromise in
which he disappeared in the beginning of the film and reappear at the end.
Hessen claims the documentary that he personally suggest ending, why don't I just set
off the bomb, destroy the world and that's the end of sequels. So
that was his idea that he wanted to die, and he thought he was
trying to But yeah, so he I don't know why they did get him
back, and good for him. He donated, as you know, sorry
to do a good cause. But it sounded like they had to really talk
him into doing this. So you were never gonna get like the Brenton Taylor
movie. That was never gonna happen. This is as much screen time as
you get Heston. Yeah, that one flashback that cracks me up because he's
just he's just a horny bugger because he's there with nobody. He's like,
why don't we just sell here and make some kids and our kids will talk,
We'll just have a new colony or whatever. Like, yeah, he's
just ready to go. Those flashbacks when when Brent is like Taylor Taylor and
you just have like Charlton Heston's face just like pop up. You looked so
much more ape than he did in the first film. I swear they're like
trying to morphone. That's probably why it's so large in comparison to Brent.
When those do meet again. Well, and now we'll just get in the
review of the movie. So if you haven't seen it, y'all will watch
it. If not, whatever, But so we we'll get back to Brent
because we'll talk about them. But yeah, with Heston, we get these
flashbacks, that's what happened. He's in a couple flashbacks at the beginning,
and the he's at the very end, and that's where she's like even watching
the first movie, I know they set up this forbidden zone. But for
to Be, we get the five minutes with him the like the end of
the movie. Then we meet Brent, and then we get some more time
with Taylor and for him and No would just be riding their horse and all
of a sudden, just a gigantic wall of fire just shoots up, and
like at least early on, you know, okay, we're in for something,
but it's just like what was the what was? And I know we're
gonna get what happens at the end. I know why it happens, but
just like, why was that the idea to have all these big things and
then my least fair, not my least, it's sill immunes. But what
I hate get Taylor gets off this horse, this horse, he gets off
this horse, He gets off this horse. One he tells, no,
Hey, if I don't come back, go find Zero, Who's just like
why she's gonna go back to the ape like human slave city? Like no,
like that terrible advice to give her. I know that your friend,
I had no fucking idea what he was saying to I must say, like
Nova, throw this entire film. She had no idea what anyone was like
trying to tell she was this one Zerra and she's just like fucking tree.
She does speak last week. That was terrifying. I fucking hate Nova as
a side character. Though I didn't mind her in the first movie, but
in this one, it was just so much worse because I feel like they
try to boost her up to do so much more and she like she's literally
just like a blank face, and so many moments of this movie they're like
trying to get her to two things. She's just like she's a fucking like
Neanderthal, Like she just can't think straight. So yeah, it's there but
like Brent like trying to commune with her, and then he just like,
gta is the car, like whatever, I'm just gonna up on with you.
That'd be so terrifying if like she was in that situation she thinks it's
another tailor. Yeah it looks like act like him. But so my one
of my least pheromones I'll just say that is he gets up the horse,
Yeah, go find her if I don't come back, okay, cool.
And then he he walks up to a wall and then he has his gun
and he goes to it or not a wall, it's like a big mountain
side of mountain. He picks up the gun, goes it. When he
hits it, he just does a summersault and be here and like, I'm
sorry, just even in sense, like what was his plan just to go
hit the mountain with his gun? Like even if it's just a mountain,
what was supposed to do? Like this is the best that come up?
What if he fucking like goes it hit the mound and he disappears right into
it like oh and lissens in the room like this, he would have been
a great scroll leader. But like I just like I don't understand. They
would have just been better to say he went missing. They did not need
to attacking. And he don't even show the end of the first movie just
like started with like nova on the horse, and then it's like they can
even have like a narrator or something say that Taylor would missing, like just
go with that. I knew that, like obviously you guys were warning me
that he was much minor role person coming to this one. But when I
saw his name, it's like tenth on the casting whatever on like at the
start of the movie, and then that scene happens, It's like, oh
my god, Okay, yeah, that's how they get like this. I
figured he was gonna come up at the end, but yeah, I just
laughed out loud. He just does a summersault and then Alva's just leaves.
I would love it if there was a version's movie where that was it.
Like they never like address it either. They don't even like see the mutants.
He just disappeared through the mountain. Got me for an hour. I
like it. Let's do this summersault, all right, Tay. What do
you think about Taylor's first disappearance in this Oh God? Like in retrospect,
like him just being gone, for not having this much screen time, and
it's it actually is surprising that when I think about it, and that's not
something I thought about before. But like his first disappearance, like when it's
just Nova shows up on the horse, when you see Brent your I was
always when, Okay, where the fuck did Taylor go? Like they didn't
really explain that, but of course, like you said earlier, just got
to keep watching to kind of see what's going on. The practical effects are
not practical. The special effects always cracking out the actually and you want me
to what the wall of fire, the lightning and all that kind of that's
pretty crazy. Yeah, but it's all just psychological, right, It's not
really it's not really there, as we learn later on. So at the
moment, I'm like, this is why it's the Forbidden Zone. Holy fuck,
this is fire out of nowhere. Yeah, like almost I would retrospective,
I would take just a for bin zone having like massive crazy weather storms
versus there's a fucking mune underground being like like projecting this image. I just
want to see the fucking the cut of all these people staring at the cameras
for like four minutes doing nothing. But yeah, let's just talk about that
because we were just jumping around and we'll get back to Brent. We're gonna
get there because that's that's to me, that's too interesting and everything like that.
It's the most interesting thing is that shot I talked about earlier. So
so uh Brant he ends up. They're going for bin Zone. They're trying
to find Taylor. The apes are also going there, like we'll tell all
the stuff and it's gonna land this big thing. Uh brand gets like in
the subway station. They find out again, oh I used to him and
Nova are drinking again. They do a shot exactly like the first movie where
it looks like she's going down on Brent. Like remember that movie where like
Hesmo stand the two dudes are down. Then the shot where like his cock
was like yeah that his cock was like camera bottom level and that's where the
water was coming up, and nobody just goes down. I'm like they just
I gotta look out for that in Escape. But and then all of a
sudden, he starts to choker. We hear like the Sireen. It's like
like that going on. He starts a choker and then he stops choking her,
and then they keep going further into these concaves, and then they just
find these people that are like they I don't know, terrible outfits, but
their dresses, I don't know how you would describe them. Full white bodysuits,
some capes. They got these head gear, so they all have the
power of Charles Xavier. I don't, like, let's just start there.
Are they trying to I always say, are they insinuating that, like nuclear
war in the past gave them these powers, like it made them fucked up
looking, but it gave them this. I don't think they ever like try
to get you to ask that question. I think it's just these these are
like underground mutants that worship this nuke and they just have telekinesis. That's just
the world that we're living in. Because like and they're wearing fake skin,
remember, which like why why why are they wearing these these fake faces?
But they all look like that? Why? Yeah they all look like that.
Yeah, they all look like that, And like it's not like they're
seeing outsiders that they're trying to like hide their appearance. I don't really,
I really don't know what that explanation was they're that horrified with each other.
Like well, even like the like the prayer or the song that they do
in their little chanting session, they like mention about like beauty or something.
It was very very strange, very very strange. Yeah, they're all appalled
by each other's appearances. Yeah, it seems because even the kids are like
that too. The kids are all fucked up and everything. Yeah, like
it's it's not terrible, Yeah, Taylor, what do you do? You
have any theories about how they are the way they are, because it's a
strange to me. It's a very strange thing where you go from the first
movie where it's very caveman era esque, right, like we have some guns,
but other than that, it's like hieroglyphics, some horses. People are
living in stonehouses. They're all using you know, sticks, some netting,
but it's not the twenty first century, twentieth century even. And then you
jump to the complete difference where there's a new underground. But then you also
have like X Men level characters here that are around with the apes with like
the corny spacemen like yeah, like metallic o. It like they're like the
thirtieth century people. You know, like remember last time when we ran the
trivia that they want at one point the city to be high tech, and
everyone like, no, that's a bad idea that like whoever had the idea
had got it in the sequel, like, but what if the people,
what if they're high tech? You know you liked that idea, you didn't
want to get rid of it. No, Like I I feel like two
thousand years is long enough for humans to get to this point where they could
do some some brain stuff. In two thousand years of evolutionists, it's a
long time, but for to explain their awful conditions though. You see the
look of them ugly, Yeah, well that was part. That's the next
part of this, Like the the looks of them. I would definitely maybe
attribute the more to something nuclear that's kind of yeah, leading to this kind
of followed with the other look and probably attributed to their ability of these as
well, instead of it just being oh, two thousand years of evolution to
this point, you put that theory not us. That's what I initially would
have looked at it as. But so like survivors of like the that's how
I would see it because you have Yeah, you have the humans on the
surface and you have the humans down here. But then in the later sequels
that you can kind of see well maybe I don't know, it's tricky.
They kind of touch upon it in the later sequels, just like different remnants
of human beings, I guess you could say, but it's I don't think
they ever go back to here though. I think everybody, everybody decided this
was a mistake, Like I I will fail the new movie if it comes
down. There's fucking like I don't need yeah, in Kingdom. I don't
need these fucking guys in Kingdom or anything else. And like, I don't
think they've ever returned to it in comics. Like I think like this is
a concept that has just been just disregarded by everybody because it just it just
me goes against everything that I even just say, the fact of how many
humans there are down there, whatever you want to call them, right,
the fact that apes like it is a whole there's at least like dozens of
dozen. There's like thirty six people down there. And I love the idea
of Taylor landing there and him being this only you know, above all the
other species humans and the rest of the people he's trying to help, but
it can't really because, like we talked about, no over, there's some
issues, so that's like there's some specialty there. But and again I never
think of this movie when I watch play the Apes. I just disregard that.
I think as what if, but like to think, like, oh,
no, there's actually a bunch of people there, and not only it's
I think they take down the apes because it's like, oh, not only
are the people there are people with superpowers. So it's like, right when
you thought the apes were the best species, actually know these people all have
superpowers and a nuke. So it's just like, yeah, I feel like
it takes the apes down as well too, And I just that's what it
was. That's what I was saying earlier, where it seems like the actual
plant of the ape stuff is like ten minutes of this movie. And like,
I don't even want to say like all of this movie is complete shit,
because I feel like there is some scenes that I mean, if I
didn't have them in the first movie, it seemed like they could have been
placed there and I would have enjoyed it. Like this, like the chase
scene with the with the Grill is chasing Brent and Nova, or when they're
in like the cage and there's like that Indiana Jones type sequence, or he
like gets out of the cage takes out the Grill. Like those are good
sequences. I like that stuff in here, But then it just seemed like
most of the focus was getting us to the mutants, and then when we're
there, it's just like a human conflict, human versus human and then the
Grillas are like outside just about to get nuked or shoot the nuke because they're
too too dumb to realize. But I feel like that was the most egregious
thing for me, not even them, like recreating the beginning, like I
feel like I was fine with that to a certain extent. But yeah,
once we got to the subway station, and I agree with you, Taylor,
I did like the actual set piece of that because when I was thinking
like beneath the planet of the Apes, I did not think that it was
going to be like an old earthy type thing that they're going through, like
a subway system. I don't know why. I just figured like caves or
something. I like, I get, I just had no idea what to
expect. Then susp're in here. I'm like, okay, I definitely remember
this. I remember the sequence. I remember I'm joking out Nova. So
yeah, I really really didn't like that decision, and that was this whole
movie. So little hint for my overall thoughts, I guess for the movie.
And like, I don't know what the deal is with these mutes.
They don't hurt anybody, but they're just gonna each other. Yeah, it's
like the hat's stupid. They have this nuke that they may or may not
shoot of, just like like there, I don't know what is their conflict
with the apes really like, but the apes don't know they're there, so
there's not much of a conflict until like the last little bit. I do
appreciate that apes don't really give a fuck this human talks. They get shocked
with them and they just shoot them down. Like I like that the apes.
The gorillas have like a no give fuck your attitude now when it comes
to the ball other stuff. Maybe not the smartest, but I just don't
know. And they're just like the preencoes. Can I hope we leave tonight
and when the guys goes well, you can always hope. And it's just
like he's like, but you know too much now, But it's like what
did he know? Like what Like he's gonna go to the apes and he's
gonna say, we met some people down there and they have mind control maybe,
but like if they just believe them, they're gonna kill him on the
bottom eyes like the steaks that the mute people have, None of it makes
sense. I just feels like they're trying to make them be mysterious for the
fake of being the sake of being mysterious. You know, there's nothing,
no steaks really there. I don't and also too, like how long have
they been down there? Because technically, like I guess, I feel like
are their skins like that because of the nuke or are they trying to Probably
they've been down there a long long time. So these kids that they've had,
why these kids have the skin you would like the semen would, yeah,
I guess be down there for a while, just reproducing like generation of
generations, so like they just would look the same. This is how these
But I'm I'm trying, I guess I'm just trying to say, like if
a burn victim has a child, the child doesn't look like a burn victim.
But I would say that these are necessarily like equivalent to that. I
would say, like, are we saying they got affected by the nuke?
I'm thinking, like, I'm not saying they're affected by the nuke. I
think maybe they've just they've lived down there. They haven't obviously gone to the
surface ever, so it's just they've changed down there. What do they change?
Could have happened, like I don't know what thousand years ago too,
right, Yeah, totally. I guess what they eat. I guess like
the drink they pee, I guess, and they everything comes from the nuke.
They eat the nuke, the nuke. Yeah, I found it so
like again like they're just trying to go for this mystery aspect, but like
why are they doing this telekinesis conversation with Brent? And then like they do
a very long, just stupid conversation where like us the viewer, it's just
Brent like talking to himself and then they all just talk anyways. It's like,
what the fuck was the point of that other than just trying to capture
that. I guess it's like it's a ship on him, Like, oh,
you're pathetic intelligence. They said it's like, oh, you're not smart
enough to understand this. We'll start, we'll speak in the most basic form
ever and they I just hate the sequence of him, just like I know
who I am. I'm an astronaut. And then it's like a pause and
then they just do this like weird look thing. It's just fuck Like I
wasn't even like laughing in those moments. It was just like, what the
fuck am I watching here? That's the point where I had the reverse where
I paused. I's like, how much is left? Like it was like
forty five minutes because I I remember. What I remember is they get there,
this reveal happens. They throw them the jail right away, and then
they get out. But there's a lot of like them with the god stuff,
and yeah, that conversation with the mutes goes on a lot longer because
they're like asking him what he knows about the apes. But it's just like
why do you care you telling it? Like like what, like I just
don't understand, like what is the com I get the Apes conflict. I
still think they jump huge from the last movie. I get that some people
did see a human talk, but I feel like it escalated really quickly too.
We're gonna cover everything up to we're going to fucking war, We're going
for bin Zone, and we're gonna kill everything there. It's like I didn't
get that sense from the first movie that's what the apes were gonna do.
I thought it was gonna be more just like conspiracy theory, like let's hide
all the in phone just move on from this. But that Gorilla Captain found
out and he was just ready to just raise hell. And like you said,
there's not much with the apes, unfortunately, but he didn't know what
was there, right, He's just like, hey, we got evidence to
say that there's something out there, and we're just we're just gonna train or
just go fuck it up. Yeah. No, I know, I know
it's not they think the munes are out there, but I just didn't take
the apes and characters we met. I know we didn't meet all these apes,
but I just didn't take the ones we met last time that would want
to go into the forbin Zone. I felt like most people were very scared
of it. So I guess the idea that there could be people out there
is what's driving them. But it just felt a very feels like we're missing
some scenes there or some plot points of why they're trying to get out,
like go to the Forbin Zone. I guess it's just a hunt down Taylor
and his tribe. They must thinks out there. And like I said,
all the motivations other than Brentz, which just makes sense if he's trying to
find Taylor, we are very muddled. They didn't even talk about really him.
Take Taylor being there focal point because we get that very steamy scene of
Zias and uh like General Ursus in the in the sauna together. Just use
yeah, the bath house. So they're talking and that's when you learn,
Okay, it's not really about Taylor anymore. It's this general gorilla guy wants
to go to the Forbidden Zone. Wants to because he's got he's losing men
out there, wants to get out there and see what's stakes going out there,
Like Jesus, I thought there were some scare girls up there for a
reason, like we had the photo here, like and I guess that's what
strange is in the first movie to make it sound like like Zira has gone
there and Cornelius, but Cornelius revealed that he had went there. And then
came back and say anything. But this just makes it sounds like gorillas are
just like you know, the beginning of Grinch Jim Carrey one. Like that's
that makes them like the apes are doing creatures. Yeah, and the Munes
are like we got you. But even like, so, why why are
the Munes like throwing fire up? Well, they just don't want them to
find them, like it's all deterrence. So you're so, I guess are
these other apes that have gone missing they also saw the fire and they're like,
fuck it, let's keep going. I guess it just yeah, I
don't know, that's that's what happened, right, And they just kept going
the opposite direction of where they came from and then they just get lost in
the desert somewhere. Yeah, it's just a weird. It doesn't make any
sense. Yeah, no, I agree. I'm trying to play Devil's advocate.
But like even there, even though they're deterrent for the girl, when
the gorillas are close and they have this like what is it called the Lawmaker,
and it's just like bleeding out of its eyes and just doing these things
like keep them away, and it does not work because the grills, just
like, go check it out. Oh look, nothing's nothing's going on here.
I feel like they could have done a lot better of a maybe a
play to try and deter them from from what they decided. I don't know
it was. I just really not a fan of the Mutants at all.
They just don't make sense. Don't like the menu. He don't like the
end of what happened the with the nuke actually going off. Didn't like the
whole church sequence that seemed like it was a twenty minute moment. It was
like an hour and a half. Yeah, when it was like an hour
and a half movie. And then I love it too because it was like
super super long, like very very long, at least it felt like for
me. And then as soon as it ends, it goes like the one
mutant character talking to Brent, and then it's like, since you've participated in
our church event, you must see our side now, like don't you see
where we're coming from? It's like, holy fuck man, Like I feel
like I just hate you more. But well, and then even just I
feel like so that happens, they throw them the jail cell. That's where
Taylor is, Like we said, Taya has no fucking clue to this guy.
And so at first he's like, all right, for friends, you
were important. So anyways, they're talking. As soon as you heard Nova,
you got very excited, Well where is she? Where she's come back?
And Fred and Terror just fucking they're just going hardcore against So I was
like spiky fars, oh man flesh. But like, so they start talking.
They're doing the whole thing like I came here for you and you know
you're lost, and I'm all the planet apes right, ah fuck these mutes,
and so I would have loved to see the Heston version of him and
the mutes first, What the fuck is this? It's definitely not have been
as quiet as Oh no, he've been yelling, motherfucker. But so they
meet, they start talking. You talk about the munes are peaceful, but
they every time they see a human they force him to do violent things that
makes them like why do they have some kink of just like they want him
like to kill Like later on before you got rested, they have him kiss
Nova and then strangle her. It's just like, what's going on here?
It's just like these people have these weird kinks that they just are all cocks
and they want to see the stuff go down. They're no genitals. It's
a big part of their mutant. They start fighting and that's when Nova shows
up. They I guess outsmart this guard, but I think, really the
guard is just dumb. He looks at and over and then like walks into
the jails up for some reason. I don't know, right, and it's
like, where the fuck is that he just told? But like guard gets
killed terrible way. Those spikes did look like they would hurt, like the
way that sandwich in between them. But and of course this happens. I
forgot this part. The door closes, so they get locked, and again
I forgot how they get out. I thought it was just open, and
honestly, I know it closes a ghett on them, and it's like,
oh shit, they're locked, but they just get out. I don't know.
So they get out there, Yeah, you'll pull it up. They
get anyways, they somehow get up. They fight a couple more apes.
Unfortunately we lose Nova and that situation where she gets shot, there's no blood
anything, and that I was just like like Taylor again, that's just like
this classic reaction, like he's a little up to at the beginning body his
damn hates He's just like it's like not like the biggest deal, which again
we don't know the time that's passed, but it felt he was gonna be.
And then and here's even the things I want to ask you guys.
So they what did the Munes want to do with the bomb? They want
to use the bomb? Right? Oh yeah, okay, so they want
to use the bomb. And there they've said this, and Brent is like
he has information. That's why I can't leave, right, And it's very
unclear because Brent the whole time is telling Taylor we got to go stop the
bomb. I guess Brent's ship was still working, right, his ship wasn't
destroyed, So I guess Brent's idea was his endgame, Let's not shoot off
a nuke, Let's get in the ship and get the fuck out of here.
I thought his ship was pretty destroyed. The whole detached, and I
forgot that because I remember Taylor was obviously sung. But so his ship is
just exploded. Well, in his context, he thinks it's done right,
and like, what's Brent's plan? He says he have to stop the bomb.
I guess My example is later on Brent gets shot. He's shooting and
they just do this hard zoom up on his head. His face's like like
he literally saw God in that moment. The second I should have, oh,
like and where he gets shot on the head and then they zoom out
and they shoot him a couple more times in the gut, like the head
shot wasn't enough. But what I'm trying to get to is he gets shot.
This whole scenario it's worse. Called to him, I said, I'm
gonna I'm gonna pose my question. Stay with me. He's shooting, He's
gonna cause the distraction. Taylor puts one foot out, he gets blown fucking
away. That plan worked at not all, probably because fucking Taylor's the Godzilla
sized human and he's trying to climb the side of this castle. Then he
gets shot. Him and doctor Zier have like one last face off. It
is like it is where we are at the end of it all, and
he falls down and he hits this thing so like he died. Brent's pitch
was we gotta get in there and stop the bomb. Taylor when I got
shot, what was like, I'm taking like like was he gonna stop the
bomb always or because him and Taylor he was gonna stop the bomb. He
was right. Yeah, he hates humanity, he hates mutants, he hates
the apes. Nova's dead, that's his only will for living. But Brent
wanted to stop the bomb, and and I just lost. He's the colonel.
I love too that he has met some good apes like Cornelius and whatnot,
but he's still Jones, just a nuke. Like if he lost,
it's over, I'm nuke and everybody. So it's why. It's just like,
it's so strange that we have our two main characters going into the situation,
and I feel like their motivations are either not explained or completely different.
And that's why I just like, same thing. I want to ask Brent,
like why does he not want the bomb to golf? Like, what
is what is Brent's game plan? That's what I'm trying to ask you guys,
what is his ideal winning situation because obviously doesn't happen, he gets headshot,
But what was his game plan? Stop the bomb? And then like
I feel like he just has false hope that he's he can go off this
planet and then get back home. But like also he he he knows that
it's it's Old Earth, right because he finds the like the subway Queensboro.
Yeah, the subway. So I really don't know from that point, like
we never even have that dialogue amongst himself of like, oh my god,
I'm stuck here. Like that's like such a big moment in the in the
Apes movies of like that realization that you can't go home because this is your
home. But that's why at least Taylors are saying in the first time paradoxes
or something. I don't know. Well, yeah, and then Taylor at
least had a plan of like well, I'm gonna go get to the Forbidden
Zone. Finalment's out there, like there has to be other stuff of men
out there. So, like I said, what's Brent's plan after this,
because zone it's just a bunch of fucking mutants, Like they really should just
should have like snuck out, you know, because like I feel like the
Apes wouldn't set off the bomb, and I don't if you kill the humans
were very shot it up. I feel like it was gonna go off.
Maybe I don't know, care you have any idea, like what Brent's motivations
are here, like once they're out of here, it is convoluted. I
mean Taylor's motivations were he thought, Okay, well, at some point humans
evolved into these apes and like just kind of like forgot their history. I
think they even say at the beginning of this movie before he goes off,
when they're playing like the first five minutes like recap of like the ending of
the last film. But with Brent's motivations, Yeah, it is hard to
say that. I'm trying. I don't want to speak too much on the
condition of that ship because there are interesting things that we get into in this
the next movie. But yeah, but I don't think he knew those things
unless he's a great repair man. I guess, well that's that's where that's
where things we're gonna have to have the discussion on, like escape from Planet
Base, because that's a whole other can of worms that it's like, what
the like, yes, Kirk, when the ship comes back into place,
comes play, Yeah, but it also to me comes back in the way
where it's like this doesn't make any sense, Like it doesn't make any sense,
like what but there's a certain timeline that you give us. You're like,
you guys fucking made that up on the spot the third movie. This
doesn't make any sense, and like even with you go ahead to I have
another question to asked after but fall finish up there. I think I think
Brent his at the end of it, his core mindset was, Yeah,
he's just he's he needs to get back into the sky. After he like
is Nova takes him to this ape city and he sees the fucking general versus
just freaking out apes. Yeah, he's just the apes are like talking about
like humans and all that ship, like the only good humans a dead human.
Then like, yeah, he backs out of the starship trooper line.
He backs out of the bush and he's like I gotta get back up there.
Like he's got that's true fucking out. So I think his goal solely
was it's no matter what he needs to survive, he needs to get out
of here, get off this planet. So you know that scene in a
hook when they like they're back on Neverland and the kids are captured, you
just have Rob Williams just going to rock. He was jumping off to try
and like fly again. I just picture that's what Brent does. If they
were to get out of here him like he's just doing that and fucking Taylor's
just lighting us a car, just like hey, it's fucking come on and
get that vibe that Yeah, you probably remembered, Brent, but like fuck
you, yeah, Brent, wish it was you that died and your yeah,
and like I guess so. And there set up was Taylor and his
crew were missing, so they sent another crew to go get them. I
feel like that's not proper, Like that Does that happen at NASA? It
happened in the Martian What would that happen if, like Tay, Let's say
we send some people to the Moon, right, they were disappearing. Would
we send another crew to like nothing, let's say Jupiter, right, Or
let's say let's say Mars we never land there. We send people to Mars
and they're just sucking. They're missing, They're just gone, no trace.
If if a ship if well, yeah, I think they totally would.
I think they absolutely would send one ship out to go and check. They
wouldn't keep sending ships, but if something happened, they would absolutely go stop
it. Answers friend's brother over and know what was interesting because we meet that
little guy or not little guy. I'm not trying to copt the little guy.
We meet his his friend Skipper, Yeah, Skipper, and we talked
about how the First Crew made sense. You know, Taylor's a badass.
He's just like kind of like has like a death complex in the way where
it's like he's find explored, do stuff. But like if he dies,
so beat. As long as I got a cigar, Yeah, that's all
he needs. There's the other guy who wanted to be famous. I can't
remember the other guy, but they all were that. They were like single
people, right, they had no connections to home. And this is the
moment that laughing I love. So Skipper laying there with his like fucking reflective
blanket, probably cooking like a hot dog in his little turtle shell. She's
blind apparently don't know if he's always been flying. He's getting son stroked at
ying and then so anyways, Brent walks so I guess it was just the
two of them were making the loss of Bill. Brent walks down. He's
kind of just going over the calculations, and they're just doing what they the
first movie, trying to figure out, you know, what happened, how
many years has been and he's like, oh, it was like three thousand,
two hundred, my wife, my two sons, my two daughters,
everyone I know is dead. And Frn's just like yes, Like dude,
how did you not know this was gonna happen? Like why would you be
leaving your wife and your your two daughters thinking that you're gonna be coming back
by Saturday? Especially, I would even give them a little leeway for the
first mission. This is a mission to go recover the people that win missing
that they have no trace of their ship just vanished. So you're telling me,
I have a wife and two kids and you're gonna have something on a
mission defines some people that just vanished, that's the time I'm gonna say sorry.
And I guess maybe you could try and make the argument that was back
in the day we're right, where like people went to war and they didn't
have an option, right, so that could be this guy, So maybe
I'm playing Devil's advocate. It just felt like the first one specifically picked people
that were able to do this mission, because we even talked about, like
joking and on joking they could like reproduce with whatever. The lady that passed
away, right, but this is just like yeah, no, no,
no, no. The other two I know it was just on board,
but like, yeah, I just like and like I said, I didn't
fill the actor who played Brent like really showed much compassion at all. And
then we just not at all. We just got to a look, he's
buried, he's gone, this done, Like that's why I like the headcaan.
Then he just murdered him. He's like, this guy is so not
for the mission anymore. He's mentally compromised. I'm alone on this planet,
like just fucking shovel of the dome. Then he buries him because like,
yeah, really seems he really seems like he's just sticking to the plan,
right, Like he's trying to find Taylor. He's like, well, I
mean he's Taylor from the first movie essentially, so I'd laugh so hard though,
just like like he doesn't even try to keep Skipper alive like a couple
of days or something, and then he just like he's not bleeding out or
anything, like he looks like he's in pain, but I don't know.
It's just a very quick cut to him laying there sad about his wife and
his daughter's So he's just buried. You should just see his mound, like
the mall cut where he's sad and you do like a lighthouse like smash cut
to like a hole and Brent throwing during it and just like no Brend and
then like the next cut is like grave, it's gone. But yeah,
rip Skipper, he didn't he didn't make it far. You know, like
I feel like if there's another crew of four, they died in the ship,
and then Skipper may as well died in the ship. He just died
like outside the ship, like he like walked a little bit and collapsed,
you know. So so I was just reading here because you're talking about this
the Skipper, and like, yeah, his fucking a tho what I know
is gone. It seems like I liked is dead. Yeah, it's just
like standing there like what the fuck. It seems like it was supposed to
be like an eighteen eighteen month journey to get to their destination. So that
was the first ship testing. Yeah, because they're going to another star,
So it was supposed to an eighteen months journey, and then that was suchrajectory
they followed. I thought when we talked about it, when we reviewed the
first one, it felt like a lot longer. That's where like these people
are gonna be gone for because it's only because they they they went for they
they were they were awake for six month months and after six months then they
went into like their suspended at nation and then they were supposed to be like
eighteen months to get to their destination. Okay's over two years. That's over
twenty four months, so it was a two yeah, so that's I think
what this guy is probably thinking, like, oh, it would be two
years. I'll be back with my daughter's like four years old, and well
probably four years though, because like two years there, two years back,
right, if they were to get the crew and then come back, yeah,
pretty much three thousand years. I wonder if I'll be back, honey,
just two years. I'm stuck with bred. I fucking hate Brent.
Brent, what are you doing? So I think happened. One likes me,
No one remembers my name, just call me junior. Okay, it's
a nice fad, I swear. When we review the first one, there
was somebody talked about being like a lot longer, but okay, two years
old. Well it is because like it's it's tricky, like now you're going
back, like that's that's that was what the mission was supposed to be,
and then were to pollinate the stars if something went wrong. And I found
this a strand. And three months after the crew had gone into hibernation,
their ship collided with the ship by exactly identical with itself. Whatever the funk.
That means automatically setting an emergency course for Earth and crashingling there nine months
later. That's according to the ship's time, but really with their uh what
was going on, it was like the time slip thing and whatever. So
fuck it gets so convoluted. Yeah, it's like Interstellar, you're too close
to the black hole. Oh no, that's it. Course, I'm trying
to think what we talked them munes. Yeah, we talked about apes.
City's not much because I just like that line reading even with like doctor Zerra
and like, fuck, what a backseat they took in this movie. I
was so sad about that. I really like those characters from the first one,
and like they show a little bit of rebellion, but like nothing nothing
even comes to him to say. It's like goes to the house. Oh
Cornelia has just hit me. Oh, I can't blame him just running her
mouth at the fucking rally, Oh my gosh. Yeah, and then he
wants to have a meeting with Cornelis just to talk about his wife and like
what should be done and everything, and yeah, there's such a because the
Munes they need to take a back seat. But yeah, I know that's
all fast. And you see Brent goes in with their astronaut clones, so
you gotta you gotta look different stuff, even though he just again looks like
completely like he does not look like no Neanderthal, and like they like when
they bring him in the cages and Zero's like trying to pull a fast one
on the gorillas of like, oh look at these two. He's like his
beard is like trimmed on, like like he doesn't have like a neck beard
or anything. It's all trimmed. His hairs shorter. Yeah. Yeah,
and then fucking Nova just looks like a supermodel compared to everyone else. That's
still hilarious. Like she had makeup on the someone, but this one was
like she was feel good. Yeah, she was like had a like a
makeup brand deal, like hey, for beneath the plant apes, like I
need to wear this, her hair was like not frizzy at all. It's
like perfectly straightened in like every single scene. Yeah, but yeah, that
was my fair line of his My God, A City of Apes, and
its just like it just just didn't feel that. It just felt like they
were trying to do a lot of those scenes again and have the iconic feel
to it. You know. Yeah, we talked about Ape City because that's
all the like we said, the gorilla usually in the charge zero tries to
stand up and you know, or just sits down. She stays down,
and that's a whole thing. But again, and we've talked I talked about
in my nonsports about the whole picketing. The apes beat the show, those
apes that are picketing, so we get a little bit there. So again
I would much rather the movie about the apes and fighting than Brent and the
Muten's you know, Oh, I agree, because that's I feel like those
human quality is that they're giving the the apes in that first movie. It's
just it's such a back burner topic in this movie, like they're really just
focused on the mutants in the cave. And yeah, I did not I'm
not like that did not like that story. I left so hard when uh
it was like the cart that Zira she gets the grilla to like give her
the key and then she unlocks it. But like she goes up and she's
like, well, let me let me double lock the door. I better
double lock the door on this and like these fucking grillas are just so stupid.
There's clearly only one lock on the door, but it's like, oh,
there we go and just unlocks it. To have multiple issues with the
foreign authority. You know, there's cell Taylor in the last movie, which
was probably like fucking three days ago. Yeah, it's the scuttle btu of
the town. Here Zero helped us man then then she kissed him in front
of Cornelius. General was on on her in that in the fucking the area
there in a little like science exhibit area because the one gorilla is like like
what do you want? I feel like he didn't even have reasoning for it
though, he's just like the cannon fodder because zero zero is like, oh,
these are two fine specimens. Will put them over there. Yeah,
He's just like, no, you won't. They're marked for target practice.
Just shi, It's all over. Not the greatest talk about Munes talked about
the nuke. Yeah, that's how it ends. Taylor hits the nuke and
then you just get like a and this was the Green Star. That's well,
it's such a weird like all right, he's so depressed in the theater.
If you're watching, it's like, what the fuck kind of an and
then it just rolls credits. It's such an abrupt ending. Kirk, what
do you think Appenheimer thought about the ending of this movie. It's like,
I got some ideas. You're still alive, right, Oppenheimer came out,
No, I don't know here on that because this is what seventy nineteen seventy,
yeah, sixty he died nineteen sixty seven. Fuck, he just missed
it. Yeah, because they maybe got the early screening, the early screen
he was there for the first one. Yeah, because he did say he
blew it all up. That's when he really realized, was like, man,
they're gonna blow it up and these fucking monkeys are gonna take over Earth.
What did I do? No? I was just wondering because in Brenton
Taylor, some like the almost anything that's close to having some sort of like
themetrical the mat Oh my god, the metrical, I can't say it theatrical
fat, I don't know. Let's go the greater meaning, let's go the
greater meaning they start talking about the bombs, like oh yeah, twenty the
first century just savages like they do it a little back and forth about kind
of like reflecting a light on society. Taylor again bringing in like yeah,
big moments. Yeah, because he's been the first movie, the good one
that's actually about that stuff with the French just there like I gotta get up
there, but like that's where again I don't mind that, and there's something
there to be said about the nuke, but it's just like a line or
two, so it's not really die don't into But I just thought that's like
like the whole Openheimer movie is about right as him, like maybe regret making
the bombs. I just would laugh. He's just trying to enjoy beneath the
planet apes and fucking Tailor's ticking shots at him. Just can't enjoy a simple
movie. That's when taking shots at me. So uh. I again laughed
really hard. When they're falling, like the humming through the subway, fucking
print he finds this like fucking sewage water looking thing. There's like float he's
in there, and you like he's like pushing through the fucking like mold and
mildew, just like floating on this water. It takes a sip, instantly
spits it out. It's just like ransom water, Like dude, what the
fuck are you doing? Like he didn't even like just like dab a finger
and he swoopes both hands and full like just go thinking it's like sanitary water.
Like holy fucking man like survival instincts. One on one tells you not
to drink that water, and he just goes right in. That's why the
fucking mutants look the way they do. They're drinking. They're drinking that water.
So then he finds flowing water and then yeah, you gets possessed clean
flowing water too. It's like the cleanest ware you've ever seen. But one
I was just love. He just died right there, was stuck with Brent's
body. Was just like he does not know what the is going on.
Probably drink it too, I hope would be enough to see him die.
And then she doesn't drink it. You know, I'll give her that credit.
She's spoke in this movie. She's she's learning, you know. But
so here's my question seeing of Taylor. Let's say Brent dies never gets there,
what was the mute plans with Taylor? Just keep him in there?
He knew the secrets, so they couldn't let him go, and they couldn't
kill him because they're peace all right, They're waiting for a one on one.
So like luckily Brent showed up so that they could finally have a use
for They didn't want to kill him. They just want some entertainment, Like
the way they threw him the fucking like big metal stick, like yeah,
we haven't seen it. Just like the guys like right at the fucking window
too, like cock Card just being all hold grab him Beard. Well,
it's like Jake Saw. Jake Saw intected to kill people. That that's their
real They don't kill anyone Jigsaw watch. But He's was like, oh,
yeah, that's that's the way to do it. I just love like they
can't just make Taylor like I guess they can't make him kill himself. I
guess they can't put those thoughts into his mind. They just have to keep
him around. That's making that'd be making him. That's so you're killing him
because you're making you know, you're still making someone else kill someone. That's
the same thing. No, that's different. That's different. Okay, see
that person's commencing the act. But if you tell someone to kill themselves,
that's you killing them. So I say I'm gonna even I say kill yourself.
That's something that did that. If I say Kirk and go kill Taylor,
you think that's that's Kirk killing Yeah, but yeah, your murderer.
I did not murder him. This is what the conversations sound like on the
Immune Council or peacekeepers. Yeah, I don't know. Just like, again,
what's Taylor gonna do. He's gonna go back to the monkeys that fucking
hate him and explain the bomb situation. They're gonna take him in as one
of their own, like you did like Ultimatum play too after that first movie,
Like he can't go back to that. Yeah, Like they're just they're
just gonna he was that first the way he was running around, those kept
coming out. Brent kun't survived a fucking three star. Right, got a
gun, he got a chick, he got a horse. He was geared
up in Brent's case, like the gorillas are everywhere. Fuck, they were
fucking everywhere. That one guy was just firing off on the bush and hit
Taylor's arm was secur yet Brent really quick he did. Yeah. One of
my favorite shots has when brenton O were moving through and they just had this
ape just standing in the bushes just like he's just watching make no noise that
every and else. He went back and told them, but it was just
something. And yeah, there was a couple of apes in here that were
looking gnarly. They did not have the same makeup budget with its stand up
scene like the scent up evation scene when the general was like giving Yeah,
you could see it around the eyes particular, and like you could see the
mouths weren't moving comparison to others like oh man, yeah, yeah, not
the lifelike or almost life like back then mask that everyone had. So and
even then, like why did they make them do I know you like to
Tim, why did they make them do that saw scene? That means like
those two actors had to go like full monkey suit up and everything. But
sorry, what the sauna scene? Remember? Oh yeah, yeah, like
what so they made these actors getting like full monkey suits do this scene?
Yeah? Why the big ape Cox under her break. They had a big
budget on the prosthetic cocks for that one. No, it's like they had
a budget of fifty million. Oh yeah, we got enough for the cocks.
And then they came to actually around twenty five million guys and like,
oh, but we already spent ten on the cocks. They realized they couldn't
even show it. Keep talking about Charlton trying to show us cock on the
first movie. They wouldn't let them rush on no monkey dick. But yeah,
I just thought, like, why did you put them the sauna?
I hope those actors got paid good because that must have been fucking sweaty,
sweaty, sweaty, sweaty. Anything else specifically on the movie, I guess
usually have truth of any no plot points that we haven't touched upon yet.
Just one more thing on that sauna scene, when you look at let's circle
back to that back they fucked the body there the boy do you have the
general Like he's just he is a really like bigger gorilla boy, Like he's
huge, but then when you see him in his armor, he's so scrawny,
like it is not the you know, yeah, I got literally fluster
fluffed in there. But uh yeah, no, like I get why they
did it, but yeah, he was pretty. He was scrawny, but
then he had a massive head and helmet. That helmet was here, he's
looking like mega mine times ten over there. He need a gun, he
just needs a head. But that new getting explode. But yeah, he
was you know, but that's kind of a class Like I guess a couple
that look was in the first one. I think grillas weren't a big part
of the first one. I think that archetype of ape gets used a lot
going forward, of like the gorilla with the big head piece, like even
the Tim Burton movie, that's who Michael Clarke Ducan plays like that. So
yeah, yeah, even just like the soldiers, I feel like that's just
such a good look for like a you know, the gorilla soldiers. Of
course they would be the more soldiery type versus the chimps or the whatever the
other ones are. We got hims, yeah, rank tanks. There you
go. There's probably some other ones in there. Mhm, just monkey types,
I don't know, bamboos, anything else stay there. Or it was
just a sauna, Oh, just a sauna. Kirklem nothing else. I've
depleted my my resources on that. Oh actually I pulled up that scene and
how they get out of the cell. They literally just have the weapon and
they just like pry the door open. Okay. So it's like, why
didn't Charlton, Why why didn't Arlton do that from the get go, you
know, like years ago, but whatever, he's been there for years.
Fuck that sucks. He kept shaving them though, at least, you know,
like one of us. But like, why even when you're writing the
scene, why did they make it that, like, Okay, you're gonna
get killed the guy and you're gonna go for the door and the door locks,
but then you just lock. They just let the door open. Why,
Like they have some dialogue in between, so I guess it kind of
forces that, But you can also just have the door open and then they
have that dialogue and then they leave. Yeah yeah, okay. So Pierre
Bau, author of the original novel, wrote a screenplay titled Planet of the
Men the second This doesn't have the same I want someone in twenty twenty four
to just make a movie about today's age called the Planet of Men billion dollar.
Yeah, it's gonna be like that. Meme or that moment in Barbie
when Ryan Gossling like sees the hierarchy and all like everything, like all the
people are going to see Planet Men, Let's see It featured uh Taylor fourteen
years after the events of Planet Apes and involved the human uprising against apes,
following which they revert back to their primal state. The studio also chose to
ignore this concept and used a new script from Films for the film Extead,
which did featured uprising the chimpanzees against the other apes. Yeah, but that
was changed for the filming, possibly due to the reduced by Yeah, like
obviously, like you can never know the way it goes, but like if
you, I feel like there's so many things you could pitch that I'll take
over this and this like definitely like the idea of fourteen years that's a big
jump, But still this idea of Charlton Heston Taylor's out there. Maybe he's
having kids that know Nova, he has this community and they're gonna go kill
these days. I don't know, the apes like going back to their primal
state. That feels kind of odd that they just like capture them and then
they're like back to like being just like my apes or something, but like
that movie sounds a million times better anestly he like, And I don't think
they would have got Heston to do it either. That could have been part
of the studio also being like no, don't do But even then, like
fuck, I would have been down if they jumped in the future and like
it was Heston's kid like Taylor Nova's kid, and they could talk, and
you'd have a mix of humans that could talk humans that couldn't talk. The
idea of humans versus apes in this setting versus what we got here, I
would take all day. Even if it's a bad movie. I bet it
would have been better than this. So I agree, you like that plot
better or no, I like that plot. I think that'd be cool to
see, like the next generation of humans just kind of like uprising and revolting,
and you got like Taylor with his son here, Yeah, exactly,
We've already got it. They could have just cast the same actor for his
son. Yeah son looks like he does. Yeah. The only film of
the original flot that does not star Rodnie McDowell as Cornelius. That's why I
think Cornelis didn't get probably too much time has come back for future ones,
but he was busy directing archive footage of McDowell as Cornelia has played the start
plays a character oh David Watson plays the character of the film proper. Despite
this, mcdowll is often pictured on the video and DVD packaging for the film.
Interestingly, Watson and mcdalell appeared together two years earlier in May for television
musical The Legend of Robhood, with Watson of the role Robin Hood mcdell playing
the role of Prince John. I don't really know why I included that,
but there go. They've worked together. But I do like that You're the
guy that played Cornelius, and then then all all the marketing it's always the
other guy you play it, which I get it, but it is funny.
Due to the smaller budget of this film, the vast majority of extras
cast as apes, including the ones sitting close to the ear and Cornelis wore
pull over masks instead of the famous epe makeup. As we talked about.
Originally, there was going to be a scene featuring a half human, half
ape child. However, the producers were afraid that that would be too confusing,
but they would also lose their geet. What the whole ending was very
confusing, and they didn't think we're gonna buy a fucking half ape half human
hybrid, Like, come on, what are they doing? So true to
what we got to what that was like, Okay, clearly met like an
eighth and a human function. We got that. It's a lot less movie
parts than the fucking mutants, such as don't talk, but then they can
talk. They have this weird flesh, so they hide it with masks that
we don't really get into. Their babies have like the same faces as well.
Muke. Yeah, they got a nuke. They've kept Taylor for you
Sunday service. Yeah they're throwing, yeah the throw. Yeah, you're right
about that. Uh. And then they're also concerned that they would lose their
g rating. So there you go, there you go. Despite the significant
success of the first one, the budget was slashed for the sequel. It
went from five million to two point five and one fell Swoop. This was
mainly due to twentieth Fox century twentieth century prosthetic penises. They're pushing for that,
and they're like, all right, we're taking away your budget. Twentieth
century Fox was teetered on the brink of bankruptcy, which is funny because you
know they got bought out eventually years later, following major expensive failures such as
Hello Dolly, Star Tara, Tara Tara, and that was it. The
recruiting of Ted Posts as a director was instrumental here, as he was used
as minimal budgets and shortened schedules for his work on television. So there you
go that Fox was in the shitter, so they gave them half the budget,
and they also just went a guy that could shoot it cheap, shoot
it fast. That was what it was. So that's all I think you
can. I think all that stuff you can see right on the screen like
that explained right. When you hear that paragraph, you're like, oh,
yeah, that makes sense. Let's this movie save Fox, is what you're
saying. No, I think this's helped them, But I kept them going
around for a little bit. I don't know that'd be good to see because
this one in the seventies, I don't know what came around was like the
because they made a lot of these, so clearly they were successful with them,
right, they made five original movies, So I don't know what was
the Big One. I don't think it was like X Men or anything.
I think by two thousands Fox was good. Maybe a little bit of alien,
but who knows on that front. Director Ted Post found it more of
a challenge and working with a modern budget than he imagined, so I guess
he agreed, and then once he started doing it, I was like,
Oh, this kind of sucks. But and finally an author ending was written
where Taylor, Brent, and Nova escaped the underground city prior to the dead
nation of the bomb. So I guess the bomb was still going to go
off and they escape, which doesn't make much sense, but which was not
a doomsday device as it was in the finished film, So okay, there
you go. The original bomb was just like a bomb bomb a bomb.
Yeah. They returned to Ape City along with Zero and Cornelias, release the
humans from the cages, and a new order has begun. The script ends
one hundred years later Planet An. The script ends one hundred years later with
the Lawgiver teaching a group teaching a group of Ape and human children who sit
in harmony. The final shot of the script shows a mutated gorilla emerging from
the underground, fatally shooting a flying Dove the Lawgiver was resurrected. Oh well
that's a spoiler for later. But yeah, like it's kind of a Manning
too. But like again, I guess I would just rather take the heartfelt
humans and apes skip together and they find a way instead of just like the
very very dark, pessimistic ending of let's blow everything up. You get that
ape human hybrid child. Yeah there, Yeah, but that's what was gonna
happen. That was one of the endings that they were gonna go back and
start a new society. And I like it more than what we got.
Yeah, pretty pretty easy to say there, Kirkland. My thoughts on rating
on US, Uh yeah, I think that this was a very bad movie
and I probably won't ever watch this again. Really like all the positives that
I can really pull from, I feel like I saw them done better in
that first film, So there really is no reason to watch this movie.
I won't recommend it to people, even if they haven't seen the Apes movies
before. I do think to what you said earlier on about like if I
was to watch this but just somebuddies, you know, if we all watch
this together, I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more, but
it's an hour thirty I think I think it's way too long for what it
actually is. Too, so I yeah, I guess number eting. Oh
my god, I think I'll give it two out of ten. The two
points are kind of like what I was saying earlier, where though like the
chase scene with the gorillas, that was some fun sequences there, like me
like some aspects of the beginning, but again, like that's just like what
was in the first one. The first movie was yeah, yeah, exactly,
And like I guess, like the the funny moments I got out of
it, that was those some good, good chuckle times. But yeah,
overall it's really not a great film. So yeah, god it's behind us
now. Yeah, I'll go one out of ten. I can't go zero.
But like there's a few moments I'm always down to see Charlton hess and
Taylor. You know, there's some awful stuff going on here, and I
think it's just because, like I think, most of the film was just
kind of mediocre. Most films mediocre. I don't have anything to good to
say. But then the back half is just so bad it just just strains
your life away, Like it's just one of those all timers. So yeah,
one out of ten, just away from zero. But yeah, that
might sign how sound hyperbolic, but I think that's like as we read there,
it's purely was just a movie made to be a cash grab and just
get it out there. And the good thing is we have movies coming up
that are not that way. We have movies coming out that have some actual
thought. I'd actually say all these sequels gonna actually have thought put in them.
Even Tim Burn's remake has more thought put into this than all of them.
So that's the thing. This is definitely the lowest point I think we
will be in this retro and hopefully ever with the plan the apes. I've
never watched the TV show I would like to. We're not gonna retro that,
but I might watch it at some point. But as far as the
films go, this is easily lowest point. And like I said, this
is for me I'd have to really think about. And that's why one day
we should do cast. I I can't think of a sequel that's more of
a bigger drop than this, and I know there's tons of sequels out there
that drop big time, but this is just a off a fucking cliff like
gone. But yeah, that's where I am Tarfield. Yeah, as I
said earlier, I would watch the first half of this and have no care
for that back half once we get into the mute and stuff not into it,
and so I'm probably just gonna give this a flat five out of ten
just for that. Hell o, so fast is it half and half?
I'd still pass it just because I like, I really like the first starting
stuff, just with Brent and the ship and everything him just surprising in the
Cornelius and I like, holy fuck, there's like more speaking humans. This
is crazy and just that dynamic, and I really really enjoyed that because for
me, it's it's something that's familiar, but it's reskinning a different light and
I like that. I like that that appearance as visualization. So that's why
it'd be a five out of ten for me. But it's still very much
got a lot of chess not working stuff. When you think of Planet of
the Apes and beneath the Planet of the Apes and then just this whole mutant
human civilization with a nuke that can just blow up the whole planet, it's
really really far fetched in terms of just what you'd expect from a Planet of
the Apes movie, I feel like, and so I'm very very happy that
we haven't had the that touched upon in a rebooted franchise and also just a
random spin off film that was doing its own storyline. I guess you could
say with Planet of the Apes the title. But yeah, I revisiting this.
I'm not going to revisit any time in the near future because it's definitely
I said, you said near future, So there could be a time.
Oh, there will be a time, yeah, just not in the near
future, but there will definitely be a time, not not within twenty twenty
three. So I can tell you that what what's gonna cause you in the
near future to put this on and be like, I really want to watch
plenty of two honestly, after after Kingdom comes out, whatever happens, Like
if they do something to kind of insinuate that Icarus mission because they've alluded,
I'll save that from we get to the movie the first one. Oh that's
true, Okay, yeah, that first James Franco one. They actually allude
to the Icarus in there the newspaper articles. So it's on the news,
No, it's on the news, the news, well and the newspapers too.
No, I didn't even know. Yeah, the news covers the launch.
The newspaper it says lost in space. I would not want that role
to try and replace Heston. That's just that's a guy as we saw Brent.
Like, I like who nowadays? Who what actor could do that?
I feel like that's a tough task. He might be to Chris Pratt or
something like that. No, like Pratt, No, the Planet of the
Abe. He does not look like Charlton Heston at all at all, looks
like grizzly. I feel like you gotta get someone that has a weird aura.
And I think he's too old now, but like Nick Cage a decade
ago, maybe could have done it, you know, like, no,
you need you need that seventies grizzled man. Look, the men have today
look different than the men of the seventies. So that's why that's why I
feel like Chris Pratt with that grizzled beard, all grizzled. No, he's
like Hollywood grizzled, Hollywood grizzled. Yeah, that's a good way, but
we don't want that. No, we'll circle back to this. Well,
that's the fall fock maybe Skipper at least he just has a massive monologue like
ten minutes. No, I feel like if you get to Poe, he's
got to be one the apes. He would fucking kill it as one of
the apes. You know, he would go hard on that. And that's
where like they already screwed it up once where like I don't think Mark Wahlberg
technically plays him, but he's like that type and again, terrible way to
go Hessen to Mark Wahlberg. It's like that's nowhere in the same ballpark of
type of that. Well that's that's That's great then because if Mark Wahlberg was
the follow up, then all the next guy is just gonna be the follow
to Mark Wahlberg, so we don't have to worry about it anymore. What
about this Clay I know he's listening. I think he's the most hype for
our Patreon ones. Legit. What about Boyd Holbrook? I think bullet Holberg
could play. I think he kind of has some of the savages with the
US, But like I legit, I think Boyd Holberg could have that kind
of vibe where he's kind of an asshole, kind of charming kind of off
kilter. I think he could see him like really grizzled with that space scraff
and everything. Not even pull up a logan, pull him up. Just
put Boyd Holberg and logan he has, like that beard and stuff. Maybe
it'll be a little bit different, but I'm thinking Boyd hole brick, that's
who I would think. You know, fuck, that is pretty good.
Actually I could. I'm telling you, I want it. Get on that
Achris mission. You know, Predator didn't work out for him. Let's get's
your there's your tailor from Yeah, I can see it. Maybe I also
don't have the cyberg more brand. No, I don't want to be Brent.
Six months will be running this planet. Why does he speak like that?
Oh that's a bad impression. That's like, oh, that's what he
says in the first movie. Remember what Taylor says, and they crashed the
ship six months right on this planet, and that you're saying Boyd said the
movie. Like, I don't remember Boyd saying that any movies. Logan six
months. They could have if they played their card rights with those guns instead
just spamming the shots, you know, they could have sat back, let
the war go down. And then just take over. But go check out
any Jones Dob of Destiny. Let us know. We'll keep looking, we'll
keep by the end stretcher we'll have. That's still my pick, but I'm
open for some other picks. Let us know in the comms, let us
know, Facebook, Twitter, whatever, who should be the next H.
Taylor Brand skipper Nova like a jazz. We'll be back next week with Escape
Apes or Escape from the Plan the Apes. It'll be warring