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more and inside Analysis dot Comside Analysis dot com. And now here's your host,
through Eric Kavanaugh. All Right, ladies and gentlemen, Hello, and
welcome back once again yours truly, Eric Kavanaugh here. Very excited to have
a member of one of my favorite companies on the line today, folks.
I first learned about Mendix probably five or six years ago at an SAP conference,
and I was just immediately blown away by what they've done. So today
we have Cheryl Kennisburg with us and she's going to tell us about a lot
of the new developments. But first let me just set the sage here so
you can understand what this technology does. So we all hear about digital transformation.
We're trying to upgrade, we're trying to get to the cloud. We're
trying to upgrade systems to be able to handle the new capacities, the workloads.
We've had this whole evolution around how software gets developed and deployed and managed
and things are changing dramatically, Well, how do you do that? Actually,
achieving digital transformation requires some form of change to your technology stack, to
your processes, your workflows, what the people are doing every day. Well,
there are lots of ways you could do it, and most of them
are very confusing and upset the business because they can't code and they don't like
that, and then they're nervous about what's happening. Is it really going to
work? All these factors come into play. Well, the folks at Mendix
came up with a really fascinating idea, which was to develop a new language,
a programming language that is visual and it can be understood by both the
business and IT. So they use this visual metaphor to represent the arch texture
or whatever the technology is at this time. So maybe it's an ERP system
Enterprise resource planning like an SAP of course, or are lots of other ones
out there, smaller ones, And with this visual metaphor, the IT people
and business people can sit down and walk through exactly how the new process is
going to run. I saw that. I was like, that is freaking
brilliant. That is a great idea because now the business can engage in the
process and under fantastic. So, Cheryl, welcome back to the show.
Tell us a bit about all the newest stuff that you got. I guess
you were just talking about governance today and you told the team that it's actually
interesting. Now tell me about governance and mendics. Yeah, well, thank
you, Eric, Guys enjoying hearing your intro to Mendics. You did a
great job explaining. So one of the things that happens when you have a
large enterprise and a lot of business people and a lot of developers, all
collaborating and different kinds of organizational structures is you do need to start thinking about
governance. And it's definitely not the sexiest topic when it comes to technology,
but there are a lot of things that from a security perspective and a vulnerability
perspective that you really have to think about from a low code, particularly as
we see democratization too much broader audience. Yeah, well, and low code
really is what you've done so you and low code is nothing new. A
lot of folks know what this is. And basically low code or no code
as they sometimes refer to it means you have some visual interface that allows you
to build apps together. Well, that's not new. In fact, that's
been the goal for decades, I would argue, But in the last few
years low code no Code really took off. And I think it's because the
engines underneath are getting much more sophisticated about how to connect things and making sure
that code is nice and tight and lean and does the job it's supposed to
do. But you folks really took it a step further with this visual metaphor
to be able to do building blocks and see what's working. And you know,
the thing that excited me the most is the confidence that gives to the
business side, because when the business can understand and see visually what you're talking
about doing, it makes a lot more sense. And then they're invested,
they're not so nervous, and they're willing to pull the trigger and move forward
with projects. And unless you change something, you're not transforming anything. Right.
Yeah, absolutely, I think you do need the right platform in order
to make the organizational change that you need to start attacking. You know,
this digital transformation project you're we don't see organizations succeed with digital transformation using the
same technologies that they have in the past, the same organizational structures. So
what you're saying about the business is exactly right. And you know you referenced
the logic flow. It's all of the layers, right, So it's the
logic flow, it's also what the UI looks like, and it's also what
the data structures look like behind it. So Mendex has a visual view that's
accessible to a pretty broad set of people across all three of those. And
you know, one of the things we're also seeing is tech literacy has gone
up substantially. So you talked about adoption of low code, no code because
of the additional power that's going into the platforms, which I think is true,
particularly about Mendix, of course, but it's also about the profile of
you know what does a recent graduate entering the workforce look like? You know
what, who's you know, while they're watching the game at night, also
taking a Python course on Coursera. Like, people are much more tech literate
than they were twenty or thirty years ago, and so their desire to contribute
to technology deliveries really coming into focus. Yeah. Well, and so Mendix
ten has come out now, and I think you're really riding on this way
tech awareness and tech savvyness AI. Maybe let's jump right on AI so we
don't forget about that. These large language models have come along and just shaken
the business world. I mean, it's really quite remarkable to see how quickly
companies have jumped on board. And we're in the early days of understanding how
this stuff works. I mean, just to be really candid, we're in
the very early days. But there's no question there is tremendous power here.
And I think just how realistic and human like these engines communicate has woken up
almost all business people to the potential. Hey, we got to start looking
into this basically. So tell us what is Mendix doing in the AI space?
How are you kind of jumping on that wave. It's a great question,
and I think when we look at our AI investments at Mendis, we
look at them in two ways. One of them is how we can invest
in AI to make developers experience better, and the others how we can invest
in AI to make the applications that are being built better. And in Mendix
ten, we have capabilities in both of those areas that are of great value
to our customers. So if we start with as you refer to the large
language models. If we start with thinking about what we can do around AI
to make developer experience better. We've had AI assistant development in the platform for
several versions. Now, wow, so as you are creating these visual models,
you know, a assistant can pop up and say, hey, we
noticed that you are referencing this particular entity. Do you want to change the
value of this attribute? Because behind the scenes, we've actually analyzed millions of
different actions in micro flows across you know, our thousands of customers and determined
that that's the next likely thing you're going to need want to be And we're
at like a you know, ninety percent plus accuracy rate at our first recommendation.
Why don't what people actually want? That's amazing, Yeah, just real
Let me comment on that. That's very interesting because you know, pattern recognition
is what these algorithms do extremely well, and they can, as you suggest,
analyze a corpus of data that is far greater than any human being could
ever process. Right, And we were just talking massive amounts of data,
but there are patterns all throughout those systems. Maybe it's log files, I'm
not sure exactly what you're where you're gathering the information, but This is where
AI is going to manifest most of its value. I believe in suggestions and
saying, hey, we saw you did this, do you want to do
that? Right? And we saw that you see it in the e commerce
world. People who bought this also about that. That's a little bit of
a simpler thing to pull off, but to be able to facilitate that process
is so powerful because guess what, especially if you're correct, well, that
means the developers going to go, oh, yes, you want to do
that, Oh yes, I do want to do that, and so they
get more confident, they get more engaged, and guess what, that expedites
the whole process and expedites time to value. Right. Yes, So we
talk about it just like that. So for experienced developers it makes them much
faster. For newer developers, it builds their confidence and it makes sure that
they're adhering to best practices. So we have other assistance in the platform.
The one we were just talking about is the logic assistant, but we also
have ones that check for best press. So I'll give you an example.
Personally, I cannot I'm not a professional developer. I did some quoting in
college, and I play around in mendix, you know, pretty regularly,
and I'm not producing anything in production, and when I have a loop running,
I never know whether to commit the variable or not. I just can't
ever rematch. I can't remember, so I commit the variable every time.
So now a little thing pops up and says, hey, you're committing this
variable a lot, and that's slowing down your app model. That's an anti
pattern. Why don't you do it this way? And it's like one click
right. This is like a senior developer sitting next to me and looking at
my model and telling me what to do better with it. So you know
what that evolves in. But we will have you know towards the end of
this year beginning next year, is an actual chatbot in our IDA that is
trained on all of our documentation, our forums, our support database, and
is able to answer questions like how do I connect to this SAP system or
you know, I want to have a dropdown that does X, y Z,
where do I find the button that does that? Right, and is
able to field those responses at first and then eventually actually generate those models for
developers. That's so amazing because, let's face it, what you're talking about
facilitating those tend to be very tedious steps in the process. Yes, right,
and no one likes tedium. I mean, you know, I joke,
Oh, what was that book with Major Major, Major Major, And
there was the character who always hung out with people he didn't like because that
would make time go slowly, right, they thought it we could actually live
longer. This is like it's one of these weird of war books. But
you know, that's a person in a book who liked the tedium. Nobody
likes nobody likes them, and it really it strikes it what I consider the
most important aspect of any company. When your workers are just stuck in ruts,
when they're trying to get through tedious things to meet unrealistic objectives and timelines,
etc. That kills morale. But when you're moving along and getting things
done, that is awesome for morale. And so I look at how this
AI manifests and facilitates these processes, and to me, it's just a tremendous
morale booster. Right, it's absolutely eric. And one of the big issues
many enterprises struggle with is actually hiring and retaining developers. That is a huge
issue. We hear it from our customers all the time that developer retention and
talent development is incredibly difficult for them. So if they can use tools that
let them really focus on the innovation and let them really focus on the interesting
problems, that helps a bit with the talent gap. The movie was catched
twenty two, by the way, it's a movie and a court. Yeah,
that was just stuff. Yeah, but it's like it's like a coal
pilot. I mean with gidthub they actually call it copilot pilot. Yeah,
right, and that's exactly what it is. So it's you've got a little
helper along you're with you on your side saying hey, you should do this.
Hey have you thought of that? What a great way to facilitate moving
forward getting things done right? Yeah, I envisioned in my head is the
same as like swiveling around in my chair and asking the person who sits behind
me, right, except it's right in my IDU. Yeah. So you
know, I mentioned there are two ways that we use AI in the platform,
and I want to get to the second one because I think it's really
slick too. So for a long time, Mendex customers have been able to
create what we call smart apps with publicly available APIs or things that they've written
themselves. We have a really close relationship with Amazon Web Services and they have
a really rich set of AI associated services that Medix customers can take advantage of.
So we have been helping customers deliver smart apps for a long time.
But one thing that we noticed was that there are instances where customers have an
existing trained machine learning model that they want to put in an app, and
there are a couple of reasons they might want to do that. They might
want to do that because it represents IP and they have a better algorithm than
a publicly available one. Or it's run on a very specific data set that
they don't want to share and expose externally. They might want to do it
because there are performance advantages or you know, price by service call advantages to
actually doing it in the Mendix app. So with Mendix ten, we have
a feature called the Machine Learning Kit. Now, this enables somebody who has
a machine learning model that's been trained, that's written in like PyTorch or a
side tech to convert that into Onyx, which is a open I don't want
to say open source, but it's like a common framework for mL. Yeah,
exactly, and then they can actually run that model in a mendix app
natively. Wow, So you've got data scientists right who are like, I
have this cool algorithm, but nobody can actually use it because I don't know
how to build a UI for it. Or you have somebody that has a
really sophisticated customer experience except it's not using the best possible intelligence to serve customers.
Mlpit is bridging both of those kinds of examples. Well, that's great
too, because reusability is key, and if you can reuse something that was
very helpful that was getting the job done, yes, you save it again,
you save it a lot of time. Then of course you can track
it and monitor it over time and realize after six months or a year if
there's some model drift or it's not doing what you thought it was doing,
or it's not doing things good enough yet, well then maybe you can go
ahead and rewrite that thing. But if you've got a functioning algorithm that's doing
cool stuff, just basically use this approach to to beverage on it to be
able to interpret that and then yeah, this is yeah, that's very cool.
And that there again is the value of open standards, right, and
of emphasis being placed on reusability, on being able to port from one environment
to another, because you know, riven or place you know is borderline a
myth I think. I mean, it does happen, but typically you're just
the these enterprise software landscapes. They're like a ripped and glue it back together
with new stuff on top. Yeah. Sure, you know how like the
ancient cities have cities on top of cities the cities, and that's kind of
what it's like. Although we are getting to the point now with things like
process mining, and I'm sure you're familiar with all that where you can now
see across these very formally opaque environments to understand what's happening, and then the
question is what do we do to change that? And that's where mendix comes
into play, right, Yeah, absolutely. You know you've mentioned reusability a
couple of times, and one of the features we have in Mendix ten is
something we call the Solutions Kit. So the Solutions Kit helps us deliver composability
or the promise of the what Gartner versus the composable enterprise, right. The
idea behind the Solutions Kit is it enables developers to IP protect certain modules of
an app while they allow other parts of the app to be changed, adapted,
or extended interest and that manages the lifecycle management across multiple versions of that
app that might be across an enterprise or might be across a set of SaaS
customers in order to simplify things like upgrades and simplify things like longer term maintenance.
And so you can imagine there might be a core of an app,
maybe has again IP and a special algorithms something in it that is specific to
the company's capabilities. But there might be customers who want different interfaces or different
menu items, or want to do some sort of customization that is an absolute
mess. Typically when you upgrade the underlying template, oh yeah, always be
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folks, fucking all things that transformation. We're trying to transform our enterprises.
We're trying to deliver new apps and new capabilities to stay on top of
things. It's a fast moving world out there is everywhere. It is truly
global. We've gotten through supply chain issues. Now we're dealing with large language
models and AI. All this fun stuff is happening. How can you leverage
these technologies? How can you change your business? Well, our guests today
know as a whole lot about that. We're talking to Earld Kennigsburg from MENDIX
and before the break there we were joking, always be afraid of the upgrade,
but you put in some safeguards in a way that's kind of like a
governance storyline. I mean, it's not maybe what you were thinking of in
terms of governance, but to be able to protect certain components of the enterprise
and then upgrade others, that's pretty powerful. And we do want to talk
about this composable stuff. I actually we did a few shows earlier this year,
in late last year. Is the future composable? And what that means,
folks, is that you know, when you look at an SAP like
the original earpiece that they sold or now of course Sporhana is their big push.
It is a monolithic system, and that was the old way of buildings
things. You have these big, monolithic applications, millions of lines of code
in some cases to do all kinds of different things. Well, SA,
the service oriented architecture tried to move us away from that and did in terms
of how we think about things, how we compose services together. But now
I think, largely because of Kubernetes, but also Docker and some other Mesosphere
and some of these other folks doing interesting things have managed to really fundamentally change
how we view products and services in the software world to where it's going to
be much more composable, and that can be a lot more lean, and
it can be a lot more efficient. I mean, there are ways in
which it is not as efficient as the old fashioned way of doing things,
but it's so much more amenable to change, and I think that's the key.
What do you think, Cheryl, This ability to be agile to change
some part of your business quickly. I think that's one of the greatest benefits
of this composable future. What do you think, absolutely the composable enterprise suggests
that that is organizationally, how your business is going to run. And then
composable or a composition platform for technology delivery is just the kind of digital manifestation
of that because you have to be able to model the those things digitally as
well. So absolutely, it's definitely about agility. I mean, you know,
twenty years ago it was the shift from waterfall to agile development, right,
and we saw massive amounts of you know, change and productivity levels.
And you know, we still have a lot of organizations and customers may encounter
who are still making that shift and still just starting to think about delivering a
product versus delivering software. But composibility is you're right, it's kind of the
that next level of getting to that of being able to adjust so quickly with
what you're doing. I think composability is one of the key parts of how
enterprises are going to keep up with this, and I think collaboration is the
other one. Oh, that's it. Let's talk about the new collaborative stuff.
And I just one last comment. Done, Yes, composibility, I
think you're right about that because you think about you know, fearing the upgrade
and you will have these big vendors, whether it's a database vendor or I
mean, I remember the cloud era folks six seven years ago when they rolled
out a new version and one of the analysts from Redmunk, when those folks
are so smart, like all these people were just bloviating on and on,
and then one of the analysts from Redmunk was like, can you just do
a clean upgrade from the last one to this one? And Michaelson was like
no, Like, okay, guys, Like when you have to just go
and reinstall the whole thing and shut it all down, I mean, those
days are hopefully over because that is so disruptive to the organization. So if
you take this composable approach, you won't have to do that. I mean,
you may have to shut off a couple of services for you know a
period of time, but theoretically you won't have to bring the whole house down
to do your maintenance. Yeah. I think that's true. I think that's
true. And I also think that's true in the platform level like Medix ten
you know, marks the next major version level for us, but we have
commitments on how long you know, Mendix to support it, and we've identified
ahead of time over the next two years, which versions will be supported for
how long and what is the upgrade path look like? And you know,
I think you don't. You don't see that from everybody in our space because
the decisions they've made, say architecturally or in terms of acquisitions where they've had
to take new technologies in. But with Mendex, I think that kind of
what when you admit to a low code platform is how you're going to deliver
technology. You have to have a platform that is going to be as stable
and reliable as the applications you're building on it and the expectations as end users
have. Well, so, yeah, absolutely agree with that. That's a
good point, And I think you made a good point here about committing to
a low code platform. So I look around and I see a lot of
different vendors in this broader space. You know, you've got your zap Ears,
You've got Rocado, You've got a bunch of different companies that are trying
to kind of fill that void. And when I look at that that sort
of landscape, I see Mendex as a couple of key advantages. One of
course, is this visual metaphor of being able to see what you're doing.
But there are all these other things that you're talking about now, like collaboration.
I mean, collaboration I think was a core benefit of this service,
as I've said of your platform, but there's some new stuff in collaboration.
What's that all about? Yeah, there is, so you know what I
say, And thinking about how to place us with some of those other vendors
you've mentioned. I think we take the low code moniker sometimes and we apply
it to anybody that has a dragon drop component to a technology they're delivering,
right, and you should really be thinking about Mendex as low code enterprise application
delivery, right. This is not about automating a connection to something or having
a really simple approval flow. This is the next generation of how we will
deliver software in the future, and collaboration is a huge piece of that.
So you know, one piece of it is within development teams. So we
have moved over to get for version control now, which makes lots of long
standing developers very happy because they're super familiar with that technology. But that occurs
on a very granular level within our application models, and so lots of developers
can be working on the same model at the same time and then there is
an actual visual tool we have not just for creating the logic, but also
determining when you have to resolve a conflict where in the visual model is the
conflict. So get version control for collaboration with visual conflict resolution, which is
just wild and it's really great to kind of watch with some demos on the
website about that. And then there's collaboration outside of the core developer development team,
right, So first you see some what we call fusion teams where you
have developers and business technologists working together. And that's very much what you were
referring to earlier, where somebody without a traditional development background can look at a
logic flow or look at a data model and understand what's going and so that's
something that we've always supported. We're now moving around that development team to like,
who's the product owner, right, who's the business owner? How do
we even decide which pieces of software we try to deliver? So we have
for a long time had an in person workshop of yeah, around portfolio management,
and that's now in the product So not the developers, but the people,
you know, several several areas above them who need to think about which
software should we deliver what's going to be the cost of delivering it? What's
the ROI we can model that in the product. Now that is very very
interesting. So now what you're talking about is being able to have some strategic
view of the codebase, of the various components that you have in place,
what you're working on. And I'm guessing that if a company has been using
Mendix for a period of time, that should get better and better because you
can track you know, for example, how long it took to build this
console, how long it took to build that module. You know, what
were the issues for rand Itto here and there. To be able to,
especially for some of these larger organizations see across that whole landscape in and of
itself is very interesting. But then to have meaningful insights on how long it
will take and thus be able to make decisions for the roadmap. Right,
That's what was it? The Scott hold and I think is the CMO for
thought Spot And I was at their events, I guess like a year and
a half ago, and he joked, I just cracked me up. Someone
said, oh, you know, how do you decide what's in the roadmap?
And he kind of smile and he's like, you tell me, buddy,
Like it's there's the hardest decision to make of where to focus your attention,
especially as stuff like LM come out, because all of a sudden,
it's like, all right, hold on, do we have to pivot to
be able to focus on this or that? So having something that strategic baited
into a platform that is cool stuff. What is that called? Is there
a name for that? Yeah, portfolio manager? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And that's really the beginning of us taking a lot of expertise that we
have developed in our digital execution practice and bringing that expertise and product tizing it
into the product. So you'll see more things like that over the next couple
quarters from us. That is very interesting because again, you know, the
planning of what you're going to deliver and then of course exactly right. It
sometimes takes longer, sometimes doesn't take us long, you know, but again,
that stuff, as long as you're managing it within a controlled environment,
then you can track those kinds of things. Yeah. Yeah, And really,
you know, people commit to roadmaps like that, like software development roadmaps
based on anticipated value and to elect this helps you actually do the value realization
calculations as well, like, these are the ones we took the chance on.
Let's go back a year later, like, if we could do it
again, knowing what we know now, did we pick the right ones?
Did we estimate these correctly? So yeah, it really helps organizations that way.
Another thing, So that's an example of where we're giving a lot more
visibility, higher up and more strategically in an organization to a Mendex program.
Another example is around app insights. So for a long time in the product,
we've had a thing on the side that says feedback, And so if
you're using an an application that's been developed on Mendex and you have some feedback,
there's little button you click and you can take that in and you know,
now you can actually also include a screenshot and circle some stuff that you
know, So we're really engaging the end user in that feedback loop. But
the other thing we're able to do now is pop a little survey up in
an app. So you've ever been on a website and it's like, did
this answer your question? Or would you recommend this to a friend, or
did you find what you were looking for? So we call those mini surveys,
and so those can also be embedded in apps, right, which both
the proactive and reactive types of feedback. So the development team and business owner
almost start to develop a better picture of the end user, almost start to
have a relationship with the end user of the app based on what kind of
feedback you get, and then we aggregate that so people can kind of look
overall, like are these pages performing well? Like are people finding what they
need? Is everybody saying some particular button is hard to find as it's the
wrong color? Right? It can be really simple or it could be a
more complex piece of feedback that you arrive at. Now that's great. So
you're closing the loop basically on feedback, right, yes, exactly, exactly,
and over time will actually be able to you layer that with quantitative insights
also. So these insights are very individual and qualitative, and we can aggregate
those. But if you can also look at something like time on page right,
or bounce rate or you know, their application equivalents to those metrics,
then you really have a full view of what's going on in your apps.
Yeah, that's really cool, and just real quick, I want to get
back to this ROI stuff. Oh yeah, So when you're able to over
time as you suggest look back and say, okay, we spent three months
building this module, what have we seen from that? Able to then some
of your clients track for example, our NPR score went up, or our
customer sat went up, or the number of returns went down, these basic
metrics that you're looking to track. When you can tie that to a particular
application or a particular component that you've built, that gets very compelling because I
can tell you ROI is always extremely difficult to determine because there's so many factors
involved and hours and opportunity costs and all kinds of things. But if you
can start tracking you know how long it took it to do this and then
be able to determine the value relevant to key metrics in the organization, that's
like almost the holy ground. Yeah, so you know, it's it's interesting.
I tend to think about it as like first degree ROI and second degree
ROI, and what I think by that is there's a metric of how much
faster you can bring something to market and how much less time your developers spent
to build something in development costs money. And so when you do that faster
or in the same amount of time, you deliver twice the number of applications.
Right there is there is an ROI there, but then there's the second
degree ROI, which is what is the actual degree of the value of the
application that was delivered. And that's when you get into things like you like
NPS and we certainly have had customers seem higher scores and all sorts of you
know, external validatable things. Yeah. So there's there's the ROI and the
value realization of developer resources. But then there's the second degree one on the
applications that are built like new customers acquired or marketing love first degree ROI and
secondary ROI. Awesome stuff. Standby, folks, you are listening to d
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Here's your host, Eric Kavanaugh. All right, folks, back here talking
to Cheryl Kennicksburg, expert of Mendix, one of my favorite companies. I
just love their approach and what they're doing, and now they're talking about Kafka
as well. I went down to the Confluent conference I guess last October and
interviewed a bunch of fascinating people, and I'm really keen to figure out how
Mendix is leveraging Kafka in the streaming technology because the hardest part with this stuff
is that it is a whole different paradigm. We're not talking about adding some
feature a component, but when you talk about a streaming first architecture, which
is what some of these companies are doing, that is a whole different world
from everything else that we've done in the past. So how do you accommodate
this stuff? The hardest part, I think with Kafka and streaming in general
is that it is so different in terms of how you accomplish things. It's
just as it's hard to fuse that to the old world systems essentially, But
maybe you can educate me on how you're doing that. And my point is
that the streaming first architecture can do amazing things in new ways, but it's
hard to kind of patch that into your old, clunky, bactor oriented system
that has been doing all these other tasks. But maybe mendics figure something out.
How are you guys leveraging Kafka, Well, it certainly is a good
thing, Eric that we espouse composable technology, right or if something better comes
out, we can replace something old. So look like business events enabled by
Kafka is a really obvious step for us because of the business it collaboration that
we have always placed at the core of how we think about how people will
use our product. So if you think about somebody in finance or somebody who's
bringing a new product to market, like, they are not thinking about algorithm
number seventeen occurring, They're thinking of someone presses by now. And so the
idea of being able to use business events to help business activities makes a lot
more sense. Also when you think about like the architectures like the backed processes
or polling, you know, from a performance perspective, given what we are
asking a lot of software and algorithms to do these days, it's not the
right architecture for that. In many cases, that's right, thinking about things
that are very transactional and that we're trying our best to model as close to
the business activity as we can. And so our event broker and business events
falls for us under the category of mendex Connect, which also is where we
have our data catalog and our drag and drop of external data because we think
about you know, all of those things as you're building an app and you
want data, right, and you want to be able to drag and drop
that data into your app model, and you want to be able to drag
and drop the concept of us stomer presses by now and then you want to
define what happens after they do that. Oh interesting, Yeah, that's cool.
So this is a true event driven architecture as as can describe. And
what's interesting is, yeah, you're you're abstracting away a lot of the technical
jargon but getting to the meat of what's happening, which is customer did this
right now. Business people can wrap their heads around that very very easily.
Yeah, I know what that's all about. You know, instead of calling
for this algorithm pulling this like, right, what are you talking about?
That's that's exactly right, and it's just you know, another way that we
help business be able to like communicate with it and or developers and understand what's
actually occurring. Now, much of what we've talked about today was kind of
our classic logicum microflow editor. We also have the ability to create workflows.
So for us to workflow is a longer running event or logic process. So
maybe something that is waiting for a manager to approve something or something that you
know, there's some number of decisions we allow AI to make and then some
have to get escalated to a human. So when you start to think about
building those sorts of logic alongside business events, that's crazy powerful. That's that's
very very interesting because again now you've abstracted away the complexity and allowed the business
to look at this as just another resource. And what's cool about copic of
course, and these are there's a pulsar and flink, there are other ways
that you can do these things. But what's cool about coficas that you have
these topics that you subscribe to, and those topics can be subscribed to by
any number of people. So some of the old world things we did,
like etling from here to there, here to there, you don't have to
worry about that. If you take this streaming first architect or seeve solve a
lot of those problems. But by enabling a sort of plug in play paradigm
for this kind of technology. That's very interesting because streaming solved problems that you
know, all these other applications have had difficulty dealing with over the years.
And so if you can, if you can kind of solve that impedance mismatch,
which is really what you're doing, that opens all these doors to other
things that can be done. And now the business people like, wait a
minute, so you're telling me that that can be in events. When the
customer logs on to the site, that can be an event. When they
call into the call center, that can be an event. And it's like,
if you know, being able to track customer churn or just customer sentiment,
it's like, Oh, someone's on the website, they were just having
all kind of issues. They called in, they hung up. Oh no,
it's high value customer call them back right, Yeah, it's that person.
Hey, we notice you're having some trouble. We'd like to help you
out that program. When you when you show that kind of responsiveness, that
is so huge for customer satisfact action, for keeping customers, and also just
forgetting your own business done. Right. Yeah, I think that's true.
And you know, we've looked at a lot of research that ties employee satisfaction
to customer satisfaction. Interesting, So you know, you and I have talked
a lot today about external customers, which I think we often think about as
the end game because it feels like there's all this business out there that we
want to attract digitally, but having similarly thoughtful digital experiences for our employees is
also really important, right, And like a really simple example, like I
know, I've definitely been on the phone with somebody in a call center and
they say to me, my computer is so slow today. I'm really sorry,
this is taking so long, right, So they're having a bad experience
it to me, which is now causing me to have that experience right right.
Or you know, I had a carpet cleaning guy at the house a
couple of weeks back, and like he's like, well, I didn't know
I was supposed to pick something up. Doesn't say that in the app.
And I'm like, well, I'm the customer, Like I take this dirty
rug, Oh my lord, I talked to the lady on the ball,
right, so that the care with which we think about and talk about end
user capabilities and experiences should be mirrored and how we also think about our employee
experiences because that's all connected for the end user. I love that this is
a big theme of mine as well, and it's why I always talking about
morale and the importance of morale. Yes, and when morale is high in
the company, yeah, then good things happen for customer service. I mean
it's a direct conduit from the employee to the experience that the customer is having.
And so when you help that call center, and this gets back again
to event driven architectures right and streaming, because if you're at a call center,
you better be getting that information real time. You can't be waiting like
it doesn't help you ten minutes later after you hung up the phone. Oh
oh that's what he was upset about. Yeah, that doesn't do anything for
anyone, that's right. And to go real time other ways can be crazy
expensive and very fragile and security risky in nature. So you know, being
able to move these incredibly specific, highly technical skill set people that are really
hard to find. So coming back to that talent discussion. Right to be
able to support that on more of a general purpose platform, we think is
really important because again you can't you can't find that Unicorn developer. Yes,
that's really hard to hire them. That is very, very true. And
so we are in this new or we need to be much more cognizant about
the developer experience, as you talked about about the customer experience and how this
all threads together, and then you know, strategically being able to leverage his
portfolio manager. I'm very excited about that because, let's face at, the
job of a CIO or a CTO is a hair raising job. I mean,
these days especially, there are so many things you need to be able
to keep track of and monitor and understand and watch and you have to trust
that people are doing what they say they're doing. So having that strategic view
I think is really quite impressive, and it puts you in a category I
think that is very sparsely populated. I don't think there are many vendors that
had to have all that functionality. So sixty seconds left closing thoughts from you,
we just invite everybody to come on over to mendex dot com and take
a look at the new product free trial downloads, So go ahead and check
it out yourself, or head over to our videos and take a look if
you're not quite ready to get hands on keyboard. We're really really excited and
proud about the tenth generation of the product. And you know, we know
that when people see it and start to use it, they'll feel the same
way. Yeah. I love it. It brings developers and business people together.
It solves the IT business chasm that we've dealt with for years and years,
and folks, you've got to be able to collaborate with your teams to
figure out what's built next and what to do next because the world is changing
very very quickly. But folks, send me an email if you want to
be in the show. Info at DM radio adopt bis that comes right to
me. Thank you for your time. You've been listening to DM Radio.
Casey AA is your CNBC News affiliate where the station that gets down to business.
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