1 00:00:18,399 --> 00:00:22,960 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jasinski, 2 00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:26,320 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,719 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:35,079 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts as well. You can 5 00:00:35,119 --> 00:00:39,719 subscribe to the premium version of our website at that website too. It's a 6 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,759 it's a fun little glimpse into a little comment section we got going on at 7 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:48,200 The Federalist, So check that out if you get a chance. We are 8 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,520 joined today by Tyler O'Neill. He is the managing editor over at The Daily 9 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:58,520 Signal and the author of Making Hate Pay The Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law 10 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,159 Center. Tyler, thanks for joining us. Hey, my pleasure. Thanks 11 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,920 so much for having me. Emily. Yeah, of course. And I'll 12 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:11,359 just preface this whole conversation by saying, what you did, your work on 13 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:17,280 the Southern Poverty Law Center is so important, and it's so important to everything 14 00:01:17,519 --> 00:01:19,959 we talk about when we talk about things like ESG, when we talk about 15 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:26,959 things like d EI, like IBRAMEX Kendy, all of these things. You 16 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,079 saw what was going to happen what was going to become of the country in 17 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:36,680 the Southern Poverty Law Center for years because they were operating off of these expanded 18 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:45,480 and weaponized definitions of terms like racism and bigotry and Islamophobia that implicated average conservatives 19 00:01:45,519 --> 00:01:49,120 in horrible ideologies. And so Tyler, by digging into the history of the 20 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:57,079 SPLC and really tracing their influence in our culture, that was just, I 21 00:01:57,159 --> 00:02:01,480 think such an important task that you took upon yourself a couple of years ago. 22 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,319 Now. But the SPLC is still out there doing their thing, aren't 23 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:09,840 they. Yes, Yeah, No, recently, there's actually been quite a 24 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:16,520 few, um, you know developments. The probably primary at the top of 25 00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:24,960 my mind is the FBI's Richmond office using the SPLC's radical Traditional Catholic hate group 26 00:02:25,199 --> 00:02:34,520 accusation to target Catholics essentially for surveillance. Uh. This this memo that got 27 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,080 released earlier this year, where you know, the FBI is saying we need 28 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:46,280 to have sources in these Catholic churches because they might be tied to white nationalist 29 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:53,120 extremism. Um, you know this, And it's it's interesting because the SPLC 30 00:02:53,360 --> 00:03:00,439 has this radical traditional Catholic hate group area, but they don't limit their tax 31 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:09,319 to traditional Catholics. They have you know, mainstream conservative religious freedom nonprofits and 32 00:03:09,719 --> 00:03:15,800 Christian groups across the spectrum on their on their hate map and on their hate 33 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,800 group list. So it's uh, you know, the fact that the FBI 34 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:27,520 would even would even countenance publishing a document citing the SPLC to target churches like 35 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,280 this as flabbergasting, and nobody talks about it. And the of course nobody 36 00:03:31,319 --> 00:03:35,520 talks about it in the legacy media because they buy into the SPLC's stick. 37 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,000 They've promoted it uncritically for years, even leading to some violence ironically. Of 38 00:03:39,039 --> 00:03:45,599 course, Tyler, how much is still how many institutions do we have an 39 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:51,319 idea of how many institutions are still relying on the SPLC's guidance in terms of 40 00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:54,400 hate groups. Um. You know, of course they've they've named any number 41 00:03:54,439 --> 00:04:00,240 of conservative groups as hate groups that are just Christian or just completely main dream 42 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,599 conservative. Um. But to what degree are they still you know outside the 43 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,520 FBI, you know, are they involved in ESG? Are people using them 44 00:04:08,599 --> 00:04:12,680 for those types of decisions when it comes to banking and finance and all of 45 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:16,920 that. Are they still being used at school systems? Where can people look 46 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:23,360 to see their influence today? Yeah, school systems are particularly shocking. Uh. 47 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:30,480 The their program called Teaching Tolerance, which now tolerance isn't isn't far enough 48 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,519 for them, isn't woke enough, So they changed the title to Learning for 49 00:04:33,639 --> 00:04:40,360 Justice. But it used to tout you know, thousands of school districts across 50 00:04:40,399 --> 00:04:46,439 the country. It's interesting the program took took those numbers off of its website 51 00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:53,600 after it after rebranded, and so it's not it's not entirely clear how big 52 00:04:53,639 --> 00:04:58,160 their influence still is, but you see it cropping up here and there, 53 00:04:58,759 --> 00:05:03,120 like in genuine where a Blake Masters slammed the Tucson School district for using the 54 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:12,319 SPLC curriculum. And you know, the SPLC has partnered most recently with the 55 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,879 National Urban League on this State of Black America report where they're demonizing the parental 56 00:05:17,959 --> 00:05:25,879 rights movement as some sort of racist attacks. It's interesting they say, tracking 57 00:05:25,879 --> 00:05:32,240 a parental rights movement rooted in racism, and claim that Ray Ray Bradberry's Fahrenheit 58 00:05:32,319 --> 00:05:39,600 four fifty one, which of course is about book burning, is becoming you 59 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:45,160 know, this cautionary tale is becoming a reality, they say, because some 60 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:53,560 parents don't want pornographic materials and school libraries. I mean, it's just I 61 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,920 don't want to use the word perfect because it's not really perfect in any sense. 62 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,279 But it's just like I remember, for years, people used to talk 63 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:06,639 about them, the intolerant left that you know, treated itself or purported to 64 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:12,720 be, you know, the paragon of tolerance in a liberal society. And 65 00:06:13,519 --> 00:06:18,519 I don't think people realize how quickly that would snowball into the weaponization that it 66 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,160 has now. You know, for a while, it was just the SPLC 67 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,480 labeling groups and making it hard for people to go out and speak or fund 68 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,399 raise because you know, when you google them, the SPLC hate designation comes 69 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:36,720 up. But it has become so quickly weaponized in ways that I don't know 70 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:45,199 that people anticipated seeing in their lifetimes. Yeah, it's it's truly shocking, 71 00:06:45,319 --> 00:06:50,879 and it's also interesting to see that the SPLC is still cited uncritically by so 72 00:06:50,959 --> 00:06:56,560 much of the legacy media after you know, in twenty nineteen they had a 73 00:06:56,639 --> 00:07:00,959 racial discrimination and sexual harassment scandal that led them to fire their co founder, 74 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:08,240 and of course it was all it was all essentially shoved under the rug when 75 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:14,120 they brought in Tina Chen, who later was fired from Times Up for scandals 76 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,360 of their own. But Tina Chen Michelle Obama's former chief of staff to do 77 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:26,800 their internal review, which still has not been published to this day. So 78 00:07:26,839 --> 00:07:30,199 the SPLC thinks they can just move on, and so much of the legacy 79 00:07:30,279 --> 00:07:36,000 media acts as though that's true. And you know, just the fact that 80 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:43,360 the Family Research Council, which is a nonprofit organization, a Christian nonprofit group 81 00:07:43,439 --> 00:07:47,120 in Washington, d C, had an actual, like a bona fide terrorist 82 00:07:47,199 --> 00:07:54,199 attack against it because of the SPLC's hay group accusation. I mean, a 83 00:07:54,199 --> 00:07:58,160 guy came in there with a bag of Chick fil A Chicken sandwiches and a 84 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,839 semi automatic pistol, planning to kill everyone in the building and smear Chick fil 85 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:09,040 A sandwich in their faces. I thank god the security guard prevented it from 86 00:08:09,079 --> 00:08:13,240 becoming the mass slaughter that he intended it to be. But you know, 87 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,560 the SPLC condemned the attack but kept FRC on the hate map ever since. 88 00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:24,079 And now it's been over ten years and there's no suggestion that they'll they'll reconsider 89 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:31,839 after this. Yeah, I guess that raises a really big and difficult question, 90 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,759 and there's a lot of bagage wrapped up in it when it comes to 91 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:43,559 American culture right now, Why is it that when confronted with facts, when 92 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:50,679 confronted with reason, when confronted with logic, so many institutions, including and 93 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:58,519 especially the American legacy media, still rely so heavily on the SPLC. I 94 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:05,399 mean, can anything separate them from the SPLC. Yeah? Well, SPLC 95 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:09,039 is just such a useful tool. I mean, it's it was interesting going 96 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:16,039 through the history seeing how More'sts, the co founder, took an organization that 97 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,639 was started to help poor people in the South. I mean, that's what 98 00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:26,480 Southern Poverty Law Center means, and he turned it into an organization focused on 99 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,720 bankrupting the Ku Klux Klan. But then, you know, you ran out 100 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:39,120 of grand dragons to conquer and started looking at more and more mainstream conservative organizations 101 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,799 to gin up more money from donors to go and say like, look, 102 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,519 this is hate, and also to silence his ideological opponents. And I think 103 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:56,320 that's where the legacy media finds the SPLC so useful, is here's an organization 104 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:05,559 they can claim as as a clearinghouse for hate where they can essentially use it 105 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:13,080 to demonize people they already disagree with, and you get conservative Christians who have 106 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:20,720 long been viewed, you know, negatively by the LGBT activists and you've seen 107 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,320 I mean, it's it was funny. There was even a TV show that 108 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:31,039 cited the SPLC's hate group accusation against Family Research Council a few years back. 109 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:41,039 But you know, we conservative Christians have been viewed as hateful to this community 110 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,240 when you know, it's it's an entirely there there are two different things you 111 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:52,279 can and should as a conservative Christian love and and treat you know, humbly 112 00:10:52,759 --> 00:11:03,960 people with whom we disagree and those who violate the laws that Christianity supports when 113 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:09,559 it comes to sexual morality. Um. But they look at conservative Christians in 114 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:18,000 general as as hateful and the SPLC is super useful for that branding for uh, 115 00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:24,399 you know, and for saying that political leaders like President Trump, like 116 00:11:24,879 --> 00:11:31,639 many many others, are hateful just because they support religious freedom measures that would 117 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:37,480 enable you know, doctors to not to not mutilate people in the name of 118 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:43,320 healthcare, and to not kill the unborn in the name of healthcare, and 119 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:48,960 these these things where the left has gone so aggressive that they're trying to silence 120 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,519 anybody who complains. You know, I remember when it was Live and Let 121 00:11:54,519 --> 00:11:56,840 Live. You know, everybody said, oh, if if we have gay 122 00:11:56,879 --> 00:12:01,919 marriage, you know, it'll just be gay marriage on the one side, 123 00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:05,440 and you'll be able to live your lives normally on the other side. But 124 00:12:05,799 --> 00:12:11,080 we've seen with Jack Phillips, we've seen with a lot of a lot of 125 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:16,000 conservative Christians who want to even just abide by their faith in the public square 126 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:22,720 or in or in the marketplace being attacked in the name of anti discrimination and 127 00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:31,240 silenced. It's and I think the SPLC is almost the tip of the spear 128 00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:35,799 in this movement against conservative Christians. Yeah, looking back, I mean it 129 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,919 seems like that completely and they really showed, um, you know, if 130 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,679 you look back fifteen years, twenty years, how these expanded definitions of what 131 00:12:45,799 --> 00:12:52,080 constitutes real bigotry, what constitutes real hatred, we were slowly being conditioned in 132 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,480 no small part thanks to the SPLC. And I think your observation that there's 133 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,000 no alternative, there was nobody like genuinely keeping track of real domestic terrorists, 134 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,519 real hate groups other than the f PLC in a way that was as media 135 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:11,200 accessible gave them this insane outsize influence, and with that influence they were able 136 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:18,480 to launder this politically weaponized definitions into the public square and into the mainstream. 137 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,440 So could you take us through a little bit of that history. You know, 138 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,480 you mentioned Morris D's and how they were originally founded, but but what 139 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:30,000 you know, what what is the history of the SPLC. Where did they 140 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,240 come from and how did they end up where they are? Yeah? Yeah, 141 00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:37,519 So, as I mentioned, it was founded as a public interest legal 142 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:43,480 nonprofit to help poor people in the South, and they actually represented They got 143 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,799 innocent people who had been falsely convicted off of death row. They even represented 144 00:13:50,799 --> 00:13:54,320 a reverse racism case. They did a lot of really good work in the 145 00:13:54,360 --> 00:14:01,480 early years. But Morris D's, you know, it's interesting Mornsty's had personal 146 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:09,480 family history with the Ku Klux Klan and he started moving the direct moving the 147 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:16,120 organization in that direction. And it's it's an odd thing to talk about because 148 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:22,600 a lot of the lawyers who had signed up for the SPLC quit and mass 149 00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:28,480 when he started turning it into a weapon against the clan, not because they 150 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,840 supported the clan, but because the clan was largely a paper tiger in the 151 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:37,279 nineteen eighties. So you would have these lawyers talk about, you know, 152 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,720 convicting these clan members is like shooting fish in a barrel, and they would 153 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:50,080 just they would bankrupt them very easily. And meanwhile, you know, going 154 00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:56,879 after the clan was a huge fundraising victory for the SPLC. In one case, 155 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,720 a woman horrifically lost her son in a lynching. Her name was Bulah 156 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:11,799 Maydonald and she, you know, the SPLC stepped in and represented her and 157 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:18,960 got the clan organization responsible for the for the lynching, got them to go 158 00:15:18,039 --> 00:15:24,200 bankrupt, got them to they got a seven million dollars settlement. So it's 159 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:30,639 interesting the organization had effectively no money to its name. It had about fifty 160 00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:37,879 grand total. So Bulah Maydonald got fifty grand, whereas the SPLC went to 161 00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:41,799 its donors and said, hey, we won a seven million dollars settlement, 162 00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:48,360 and this proves how effective we are give us money. The SPLC rakes in, 163 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,879 you know, about two million in a year a year and a half 164 00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:58,279 after that that case, and Bulah Maydonald gets this fifty grand. She takes 165 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:04,759 the fifty grand and she actually pays it to the SPLC because the SPLC had 166 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:11,600 given her a loan on a house, and so the SPLC gets millions of 167 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:17,240 dollars from its donors. The SPLC gets, you know, the fifty grand 168 00:16:17,399 --> 00:16:21,440 that she got, she pays to them, and then later Morris d's goes 169 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,080 and wants to get a movie made about the case, and Boola MacDonald tries 170 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,879 to make a movie about the case and she gets shut out of making her 171 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:37,679 own film because Morris d's is making his own film. So that that kind 172 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:44,320 of shows, I think the corruption that was building even back then. But 173 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,120 so there's this money making machine that they have, and they run out of 174 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:56,759 clans, so they go after these skinheads, racist groups, and then and 175 00:16:56,799 --> 00:17:00,159 then they start expanding more and more, and you end up finding the Family 176 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:10,599 Research Council, you end up finding the Center for Immigration Studies, many many 177 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,119 different conservative and Christian organizations on the hate group list and the hate map, 178 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:22,599 because it seems as though they're continually finding reasons to get their donors to give 179 00:17:22,279 --> 00:17:27,319 and it becomes clear that they're using this. You know, there was a 180 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:33,240 spokesman called Mark Potok who in two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine 181 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,359 was giving these speeches to people and he said, our aim in life is 182 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,839 to destroy these groups, to utterly destroy them. And he said, you 183 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,920 know, the press will say that we're monitoring these groups, but our purpose 184 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:52,440 is actually to get rid of them. And he said, to so mortally 185 00:17:52,599 --> 00:17:59,960 embarrass them that they're destroyed. And I think that that encapsulates what the strategy 186 00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:04,319 he is. And there there are some organizations on the hate map that are 187 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,480 you know, horrific. I mean, you have, you have legitimately anti 188 00:18:10,519 --> 00:18:19,359 Semitic organizations out there. They they do include the what's it called the of 189 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:25,319 Islam, the Nation of Islam, Nation of Islam, yes, and a 190 00:18:25,319 --> 00:18:27,079 few others. And I mean I would I would never. I mean I 191 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:32,000 was. I was very proud when I got attacked by the Westboro Baptist Church, 192 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:37,160 UM, because you know, I don't stand for the kind of crap 193 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,119 that they do. UM. But I mean, even even the Nation of 194 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:47,039 Islam and the Westboro Baptist Church are not the KKK. And there are KKK 195 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,880 groups. I mean, I don't know how alive these KKK groups are on 196 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:57,359 the hate map, but I think given the SPLC's history and what the SPLC 197 00:18:57,599 --> 00:19:03,119 is trying to achieve with this hate map, when you're on this map, 198 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,839 You're put on it with Ku Klux Klan chapters like this. Well, let's 199 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:17,200 make no bones about this. This is utterly defamatory if you are not something 200 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,240 like the Ku Klux Klan, because this is the organization that this is the 201 00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:27,039 part of the SPLC that they started to monitor the clan and now it's monitoring 202 00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:32,759 these groups. I think they're clearly they're trying to draw a line there, 203 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:40,720 and they like to weasel out of their defamation. But it's it's interesting because 204 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:45,240 recently there was a case anyway I can, I could go on and on, 205 00:19:45,319 --> 00:19:48,559 but yeah, you asked about the history, and I think that's that's 206 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:56,759 largely that largely covers it. There was also a on the history in that 207 00:19:56,799 --> 00:20:03,160 twenty nineteen scandal. A former staff effort came forward and said that that the 208 00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:08,079 hate accusations of the SPLC are a highly profitable scam. He wrote, and 209 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,480 I mean this, this is the kind of thing that you can see from 210 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:17,000 the outside, but to hear somebody from the inside say that, to say 211 00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:22,279 that we were trying to builk northern donor you know, northern liberals by exaggerating 212 00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:29,359 claims of hate in the South I think it just speaks volumes to how how 213 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,480 true and how clear it is. M Yeah, that is I had actually 214 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,160 forgotten about that, but that's so important. And on that note, how 215 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,240 successful has their bilking been in recent years, because you know, they have 216 00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:47,599 gotten massive corporate donations over the years, and you know this is all generally 217 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,920 highly publicized because corporations like to brag about giving to the SPLC. But who's 218 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,359 bankrolling them these days? Yeah, they have a very large donor base, 219 00:20:56,519 --> 00:21:02,000 you know, I have, I've seen well, I think the big the 220 00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:07,279 big answer to that question is big companies gave a lot of money, you 221 00:21:07,279 --> 00:21:12,119 know, Apple and JP Morgan and gave I believe it was about a million 222 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:22,279 dollars each to the Southern Poverty Law Center after the Charlottesville riots. And and 223 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,160 it's interesting in that case, the SPLC adam map and still has a map 224 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:33,640 of Confederate monuments warning of turmoil and bloodshed because these monuments exist. And of 225 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,319 course on the map of monuments you not only have statues to generals, but 226 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:45,880 you also have schools like elementary schools and middle schools and high schools. And 227 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,759 so this was at the time when rioters, you know, Antifa were coming 228 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:55,319 and knocking down these statues and rallying, and I thought it was it was 229 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:03,559 rather imprudent. Shell we say, of the SPLC to put schools where kids 230 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,160 you know, sure, maybe the school shouldn't be named after one of these 231 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,759 people. I don't know, does that really matter, but you know, 232 00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:15,640 putting these schools because they're named after Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson on 233 00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:22,519 a map with these with these statues and essentially encouraging people to to go and 234 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:29,680 protest and anyway, it's so, yeah, they have a very big donor 235 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:36,559 base. They have a an endowment of seven hundred and thirty million dollars now 236 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:42,079 over over half a billion dollars, and of course they have they have accounts 237 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:48,799 in the Cayman Islands, which is ironic for a nonprofit, like why are 238 00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:53,440 you hiding money in offshore accounts when you have an endowment this big um. 239 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,079 But yeah, they're very entrenched. So they have a lot of small dollar 240 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,119 donors. But of course they also get grants from George Soros funded organizations like 241 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:12,599 the Open Society Foundation. They're part of that whole Soros network. And and 242 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:18,839 I mean Morstis was always a great fundraiser. He was a pioneer of direct 243 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:25,559 mail. So he built up this fun this donor base, and it's it's 244 00:23:25,599 --> 00:23:30,519 been the same ever since. You know, donor base plus Soros money plus 245 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,759 the occasional million dollar grant from Apple kind of explains where they are. And 246 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:41,799 I'm curious about your experience as someone who's really become an expert on all of 247 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:45,839 this, if you've had a situation where explaining these things kind of calmly, 248 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:52,680 rationally factually to people changes their mind on the Southern Barbary Law Center, Or 249 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,640 are people you know not even willing to have that conversation. This is just 250 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:04,839 one of those is one of those things that is so I think completely irrational 251 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:10,519 and ridiculous and absurd and dangerous on paper that if you sit down with you 252 00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:14,680 know, an old ACLU type liberal, they would look at it and say, 253 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,279 this is outrageous. This has you know, had such a delatarious impact 254 00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:22,519 on discourse. But in your experience, have you found that to be the 255 00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:25,440 case that you can win people over with facts and logic when it comes to 256 00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:29,519 SPLC Or is it just that people don't even think they don't know what they 257 00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:34,279 don't know because the media doesn't tell them. Well, I've found that when 258 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:41,279 I can discuss it with rational liberals, they'll they'll agree that the SPLC is 259 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:52,839 not a reliable source of information. But I think it's most people don't have 260 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,400 the SPLC on the on the front of their minds. So if they're googling 261 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:03,559 an organization, and for some of these organizations, you know, the SPLC 262 00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:08,160 is the number one Google search result, So you'll search for a group like 263 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:15,279 the Dustin Inman Society, which is an immigration organization. It's it's focused on 264 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:22,480 making sure that immigration law is followed and you know, making sure that we 265 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:29,319 have the protections for citizens so the illegal immigrants don't come into this country and 266 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:36,480 abuse the rights that citizens and that legal immigrants have. But this organization is 267 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:40,880 branded and anti immigrant hate group by the SPLC, and if you google it, 268 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,519 that's the first thing that comes up. So there's a big chilling effect. 269 00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:48,519 Even even though I don't think a lot of people are going around saying, 270 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:53,119 oh, the SPLC says this, therefore, you know, therefore we 271 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:59,400 should hate these people. It's more, it's more subtle than that. And 272 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,480 I had a friend, you know, I used to go to these board 273 00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:08,559 gaming and still do, but I like playing board games. And we had 274 00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:14,200 a game night and I mentioned that I had friends at the Family Research Council 275 00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:18,720 and this guy who was not like a big devotee of the SPLC or anything, 276 00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:23,160 but he turns to me and says, Oh, they're a horrible group. 277 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:29,200 They're they're promoting hate and violence and you should you should be careful and 278 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,079 stay away from them. And at the time I just thought that was you 279 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,079 know, that was absurd. I mean, I knew these people, and 280 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,039 I responded a little bit. And the guy, you know, he didn't 281 00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:44,960 he didn't go into we didn't go into a debate about the SPLC, but 282 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:51,240 it was sort of that background knowledge that people have. UM. So when 283 00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:56,920 you actually discuss these issues head on, UM, they'll they'll listen. But 284 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:03,039 it's interesting to see how many Democratic politicians will not just you know, support 285 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,839 the SPLC or cite it, but actively, you know, celebrate it. 286 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:14,440 And the SPLC recently had a fifty year anniversary celebration and a bunch of Democrats 287 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,319 came on to celebrate the SPLC and praise it. And I reached out to 288 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,759 their offices and said, hey, do you have any comment about you know, 289 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:27,039 the racial discrimination and sexual harassment scandal, or the fact that former employees 290 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:33,400 say that this is a this is a highly profitable scam, and of course 291 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:40,480 they never responded. And Joe Biden right now has multiple has nominated for a 292 00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:47,680 judicial appointment woman, a woman named Nancy A. Boodoo who is an SPLC 293 00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:52,680 attorney, and she her nomination has been stalled in the Senate for a while, 294 00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:59,559 but Biden is still standing by her, and many Republicans have rightly raised 295 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:06,039 cerns saying, look, we should not be elevating someone from this activist, 296 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:14,880 you know, weaponized organization to a federal judge ship. This is absurd, 297 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:22,720 but Biden has yet to back down and A. Boodoo's name is still up 298 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:29,000 for the nomination. Wow. I hadn't even followed that, but it's a 299 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:32,480 perfect segue into one thing I wanted to ask, which is just basically, 300 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,240 is the SPLC getting more powerful or less powerful? And maybe the answer is 301 00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:41,039 it's all staying the same. But I also wonder that with the democratization of 302 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,279 media in general, you know, where you have the Daily Signal, you 303 00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:51,480 have the federalist places that exist and are able to reach big audiences because the 304 00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:53,400 sort of barriers to entry. Aren't the same as when you had to have 305 00:28:53,440 --> 00:29:00,720 a literal printing press and people to hand out papers. Is that eroding their 306 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:06,720 power because there are books like yours, because there are people questioning their methods. 307 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,920 Is their base so strong in terms of donors and media that it'll just 308 00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:17,400 always kind of be the same, seemingly, Or are they, you know, 309 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,920 in some ways getting stronger in the kind of post George Floyd post twenty 310 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,720 twenty version of America where everyone is just sort of calling every little thing racist. 311 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,440 Um, you know, what's are they getting more powerful? Less powerful? 312 00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:34,519 They staying the same? What's your read on the situation? Yeah? 313 00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:41,319 I think I think they're largely staying the same. I you know, I 314 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:47,200 do hope that my book has made has made some impact. I have been 315 00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:55,799 seeing a lot less direct celebration of the SPLC in the legacy media than I 316 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:02,640 used to. Back after Charlottesville, CNN decided to run the hate map on 317 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,200 its website and I believe on television where they essentially, you know, uncritically 318 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,119 said look, these are these are the hate groups and didn't have any any 319 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:19,839 balancing opinion, which I found extremely shocking and still do but after the racial 320 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:26,599 discrimination and sexual harassment scandal, after, you know, and and right now 321 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:33,880 with Biden in the White House, the SPLC has taken a little bit of 322 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:41,319 a step back. But they're also engaged in local situations. So I mean, 323 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:48,839 it's kind of absurd to even talk about, but an SPLC attorney was 324 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:56,160 charged with domestic terrorism recently because he was personally involved in the stop Cop City 325 00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:00,839 riots in Atlanta, And you can see footage of the these rioters marching in 326 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:08,240 lockstep to try to stop construction, throwing molotov cocktails at police and at construction 327 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,839 vehicles, um, you know, essentially engaging in a mini war, a 328 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:19,319 small scale war. And the SPLC at first didn't even say, oh, 329 00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:23,400 our guy wasn't involved in violence. All they said was, oh, he 330 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:29,079 was there as an observer, as a legal observer with the National Lawyer's Guild, 331 00:31:29,119 --> 00:31:34,279 which is also a very left left leaning organization. And so when when 332 00:31:34,319 --> 00:31:38,119 that happened, there was a lot of a lot of focus on the fact 333 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:45,599 that he was an SPLC attorney charged with domestic terrorism. But many of the 334 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:52,640 legacy media outlets will wait until there's a favorable narrative for their side before they 335 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,920 cover news like that, and most recently with the Dustin Inman Society, there's 336 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,680 there's a lawsuit. Most of the time, defamation lawsuits against the SPLC don't 337 00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:08,720 see the light of day, but this organization called the Dustin Imman Society recently 338 00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:15,440 got a major cleared to major legal hurdle in a defamation lawsuit against the SPLC 339 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,640 on its hate group accusation. And that represents a huge win because it means 340 00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:29,480 this organization can go to discovery and actually see how the SPLC internally debates and 341 00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:34,200 decides who is and is not a hate group. Because in twenty eleven, 342 00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:37,200 the SPLC said that this group was not a hate group, and then in 343 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,240 twenty eighteen they turned around and did one eighty saying it is a hate group. 344 00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:49,279 And most of the quote unquote evidence they cited for this hate came from 345 00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:54,680 before twenty eleven, which means, wait, what defines a hate group and 346 00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:01,480 what doesn't, So that lawsuit is forthcoming. So there are ways that the 347 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,640 SPLC has lost its impact, but it still has a big impact. And 348 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:13,799 I expect as the twenty twenty four cycle years more people on the left are 349 00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:20,920 going to be citing the SPLC and I really wonder if the SPLC has decided 350 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,319 it's going to add some parental rights groups to the hate the hate map, 351 00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:35,680 and the hate group list, because they reported last week on this report where 352 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:43,839 an SPLC researcher is going after these parental rights groups and essentially saying that opposing 353 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:50,440 porn in school makes you part of the new quote unquote uptown clan. So 354 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:58,920 and it's ironic because it seems so absurd that they would claim this when you 355 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:04,079 look at the actual facts of why parents are, you know, standing up 356 00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:09,039 and demanding a say in their children's education, and yet people on the left 357 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:17,559 seem utterly intent on demonizing and preventing that and driving a wedge between parents and 358 00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:22,800 children, hiding, you know, if a child has has any sort of 359 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:28,519 gender confusion, they're they're acting as though it's the school's job to hide a 360 00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:34,760 gender transition from parents, even though we know that many of these transition you 361 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,000 know, procedures can be extremely dangerous. And in one case, there's that 362 00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:46,440 story of the the boy who was undergoing and you know the creation of a 363 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:53,239 vagina, of a vaginal plasti and they took part of his his guts to 364 00:34:53,559 --> 00:35:00,559 create into a facsimile of a female reproductive organ, and that led to his 365 00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:06,920 death on the operating table, because that's a very dangerous procedure and all all 366 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:14,880 of that kind of stuff is anyway, it's if parents can't know what their 367 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,119 children are identifying as in school, they can't protect their children, and they 368 00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:23,400 can't parents are the ones who can make the best decisions for their children. 369 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:30,079 And if we have a wedge between schools, between children and parents, that 370 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:35,320 is I mean, that's the kind of thing that the Soviet Union pushed. 371 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,480 I mean, this is this is the the sort of pitting people against one 372 00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:50,400 another, the breaking up of families that undermines our freedoms and really turns America 373 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,480 into something we never could have imagined. You know, that's a really good 374 00:35:54,519 --> 00:36:00,119 point, and it makes me wonder how the SPLC handles the current moment because 375 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:07,159 expanding you know, the definition of hate into potentially some of their donors who 376 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,880 are not even you know, people who are see the reason in getting actual 377 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,559 pornographic books out of elementary school libraries or middle school libraries, or who see 378 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:24,079 the reason in pausing some of these extreme medical experiments on children. You know, 379 00:36:24,119 --> 00:36:29,280 if you're getting into that space where the average person who watches CNN or 380 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,000 pays attention to in New York Times maybe has a different opinion on it or 381 00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:37,239 doesn't have any opinion on it. But being called the bigot or hateful for 382 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,079 that doesn't seem like it would be doing the SPLC any favors. But to 383 00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:45,480 your point, Tyler, and you make this in your book, they have 384 00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:49,960 such a robust base of support among the far left that maybe it doesn't chip 385 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,559 away at their power at all, even if they end up implicating like almost 386 00:36:53,599 --> 00:37:00,079 all of the country incomplete like hate and bigotry. They're very powerful. I 387 00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:04,880 mean, when you have an endowment at seven hundred and thirty million dollars, 388 00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:08,840 they could I mean, they could stop fundraising tomorrow and keep their organization going 389 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:15,360 for ten years like and they're not. I mean, I see these these 390 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,920 obituaries and I can't I can't help but be very sad when I see this. 391 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,920 But in an obituary that says, in lieu of Flowers, please donate 392 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:30,639 money to the Southern Poverty Law Citor, Like, uh, that's anyway. 393 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,679 I understand where people are coming from when they when they say that kind of 394 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,039 thing. But if they knew you know, and that's that's part of what's 395 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,320 so sad about it. You know, I think it's important to push back 396 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:51,280 against the SPLC's lies in the public square and defend the people whose whose reputations 397 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,039 are being dragged through the mud because they're you know, somewhat to the right 398 00:37:55,039 --> 00:38:00,440 of Karl Marx m But but you know, you have these donors who are 399 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:09,440 giving money to an organization that seems to have no respect for what they would 400 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:15,480 want. Um. But that's I mean that that's another aspect of it that 401 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:25,679 it's yeah, and that's that's more of just a just a tragedy when as 402 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:31,679 you noted, I mean some of some of the SPLC's donors must you know, 403 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:38,000 must see reason on some of these things that are getting people demonized. 404 00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:43,760 But right, and especially as the left goes further and it keeps pushing the 405 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,800 envelope further and further. It's the kind of thing that's made people, you 406 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,400 know, think of like a David Sachs, like some people just pause and 407 00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:53,719 look around and think what in the world is going on? Um? But 408 00:38:53,880 --> 00:39:00,119 yeah, that endowment, it's formidable to say the least, Tyler O'Neill. 409 00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:04,719 People can follow your work over at the Daily Signal. They can get your 410 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,280 book on Amazon, so long as Amazon keeps it up, of course, 411 00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:15,039 making hate pay the corruption of the Southern Poverty Law Center. It is out 412 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,320 and you can read it. Tyler. Where can people follow you? On 413 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,760 Twitter? Yeah? So I'm at Tyler to the number two O'Neill o n 414 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:30,119 ei oulets because my initials are two. I particularly love that, and also 415 00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:34,920 on you know, Facebook LinkedIn. Twitter is where I'm the most active, 416 00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:42,199 especially now that Elon Musk has I don't think I ever actually dead named people, 417 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,519 but it's it's good to see Twitter, you know, not banning people 418 00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:52,079 for disagreeing with gender ideology right right well, and also not being compliant with 419 00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,360 like the SPLC in particular. You know, Elon Musk isn't going to take 420 00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,400 the SPLC's word as gospel when they call someone a hate groups. So that's 421 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,960 definitely a big deal in and of itself. Yes, all right, Well 422 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,280 you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm em La 423 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,400 Jasinski, culture editor here at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with Moore. 424 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:22,800 Until then, people, lovers of freedom and anxious, I heard a 425 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:32,599 fame by the reason, and then it faded away