WEBVTT

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And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is that triangle. You

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know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the Randalschampars. It doesn't involve

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aliens at all. It was completely
silent. It comes right over our heads.

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It's so classic Gli Sorcier. Really
standing in the clearing, he turned

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over to my father and held his
hand, and he looked in his eyes

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and said, we're not alone.
Welcome to Podcast UFO for our live show.

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We're live every Wednesday at eight pm
Eastern Standard Time on the Dark Matter

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Radio Network. Please remember to visit
the website podcastufo dot com for past episodes,

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blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live in

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our chat room, and don't forget
to like us on our very active Facebook

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page. Hello everyone, this is
Martin willis your host, and we have

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a Lejandro Rojas coming up with the
news, and just a few tonight we

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have Erica Lukes, mofan director,
and she's going to be talking about her

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new show called UFO Audit, which
is coming up first show this Friday,

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So I'm going to talk to her
about that and much more. Of course,

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Well, I want to thank everyone
for their support, and if you

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have not subscribed to us and you
want to hear the second hour, simply

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go to our podcast site, which
is podcastufo dot com and you'll see right

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on the right sidebar a real easy
click and sign up. You only have

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to do that once and you get
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iTunes or virtually any media player.
And it's really easy to set up with

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an iPhone. And speaking of support, I've actually had a life change.

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My grueling job, my grueling commute
has been changed to consulting work, if

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any In other words, I'm unemployed. So my pipe dream is to make

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this show my focus. I know
that is kind of a pipe dream,

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but I know there are a lot
of you listeners out there, and if

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each of you could port my show
for a dollar or more, well,

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by golly, I could actually do
that, make this my focus. And

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I think as soon as possibly next
week or the week after, I'm going

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to be going to College Park,
Maryland and it's going to be a great

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live show. I'd love to do
more things like that, So help if

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you can. But if you can't
help, that's okay. We still love

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each and every one of you.
Well, anyone that signs up for a

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ten dollars or more per month,
I will happily send you a free T

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shirt. And speaking of that,
you know they haven't been real popular.

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I have to admit I do have
a graphic designer working on new designs.

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I'm going to post different designs that
he gives me and I'll post them up

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on Facebook and on the website.
And now I'll let you decide. I'll

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maybe set up a survey or something. Again, we still love every single

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listener out there. I really love
doing the show. And now we have

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Alejandro Rojas. But Alejandro, I
want to talk to you about your last

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guest, Ron Righer. Yes,
Martin, let's do that. So that

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I helped Alejandro on his show,
I help him with the news on that

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end. So I listened to the
show and Ron Rick Gere is a fascinating

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man. What a great show that
is. And that's at Openminds dot tv

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podcast is right on that site that
came out last Monday. I suggest to

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any of the listeners to the show
check that out. It's a great show

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with Ron. He was fascinating.
Yeah, he's great. And it's kind

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of funny because I mean his stories. If you wouldn't know any better,

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I don't think you would believe it. But I've known Ron for many years.

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I mean ever since I've been in
MUFAN. He was a director.

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I think in Utah he was on
the board. I think now he's some

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sort of functional director. So he's
always been around and an aerospace engineer and

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here and there over the years,
I've asked him, talk to him about

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different things. You know, a
lot of UFO researchers will mention him when

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write about things because he's been associated
to so many things along as the days

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of you know, as the years
have gone by, and it's so interesting

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how his career has been able to
mix with his interest in UFOs and how

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he's kind of been part of these
really important cases over the years. And

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I always you know, he was
like probably one of the first people I've

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wanted to interview when I started my
show, and I just can't believe I

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haven't sat down and talked to him
about all of this until recently. But

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a lot of people don't know about
his fascinating background, and he's not the

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type to really hype himself. He's
around at these conferences and stuff, but

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there's a lot of people at these
conferences where you strike up conversations with someone

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maybe you've seen three years in a
row at the UFO Congress and you ask

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about him. Oh, yeah,
I'm an engineer or sure, I used

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to work at NORAD and we used
to see some weird stuff. You know,

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these amazing people who are interested in
this field. Wait a minute,

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was he at the North Carolina conference? I can't remember. Most likely,

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I can't remember for sure. It
was a tall guy. There was a

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tall guy that was some type of
engineer that I spoke with there, and

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I'm wondering if it might see he
probably was. He goes to a lot

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of these often, and some of
you who go to these may recognize him

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because he often has his dog with
him that helps him, I think,

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with seizures. But he's often got
a dog with him for those purposes at

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these conferences, but he's had a
lot of them. Great guy, very

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very interesting. Wow awesome. Well, so we're here to talk about news.

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So what's going on with the um
Yeah, what's going on with UFO

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news this week? Well, I
just finished my story on these Arctic UFOs.

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I'm sure you've seen the story because
it's all over the place. In

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fact, I'm going to cover a
couple of stories that are big in the

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media, international media, and this
is one of them. And I waited

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a little while to write about it
because I knew there would be more work

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done, and I knew it would
be a lot of work for me to

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research everything about them so I can
write a concise story about what's going on

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here. But have you seen these
photos? They're really amazing of these alleged

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photos of UFOs taken from what appears
to be a periscope of navy sub Yes,

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wasn't John Greenwald involved in releasing these
somehow? Yeah? Exactly. So

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what happened that there's this researcher,
Alex ms Stretta, and he says that

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he received these photos from an anonymous
source in Europe. Then he had heard

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that a French newspaper, paranormal magazine
actually called Top Secret, had published them,

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and so he looked at what information
they had. It was similar to

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what he had, and so he
decided to release these pictures on the Black

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Vault with information about what he had, so that John Greenwald and others could

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help him investigate these photos. His
anonymous source told him that these images were

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taken from the USS trump Hang funny
enough, tripang, I guess is a

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word for like a c cucumber or
something like this, but it's a real

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Navy sub in March of nineteen seventy
one when they were near Iceland, in

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between Iceland and an island called Janet
Mayon up in the Arctic, and that

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there was an admiral on board called
Dean Reynolds, and there was also an

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officer, John Kilka, who is
the one who saw what appeared to be

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what they called an accident. So, I guess appeared to see this UFO

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even though there's several of them crash
and I guess having some kind of mchannical

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issue and crashing or something like that, or being shot at. It's kind

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of vague, so really interesting.
He posts these stories with the pictures.

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They quickly then went to research what's
going on with these images. So they

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got ahold of Steve Marillo, who
runs the UFO and paranormal meetup in Los

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Angeles, And the reason they contacted
him is that he was a Navy pilot

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and they asked him if he could
help them get in contact with these two

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gentlemen, Admiral I'm sorry I gave
you the wrong name for the admiral too.

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His name was Sacket, Dean Reynolds
Sacket, So Admiral Sackett and Officer

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Kilcap, and they were able to
get a hold of him. So Marilla

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called Sacket and Miss Stretta was able
to get a hold of Officer Kilcap.

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They said, yeah, we were
on the tray Pang in March of nineteen

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seventy one, and we were in
the Arctic in that area. And John

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Greenwald was able to actually verify that
those guys were on the ship separately even

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before they contacted him, that the
ship was in the area. However,

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they said, we did not see
anything strange. We don't know what those

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images are, and as far as
we know, nobody saw anything strange.

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So the story was false. And
the Miss Stretta had said, it turns

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out that, you know, the
information I got from my sources is false.

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So who knows what's going on here? John Bridley, So this is

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a little turn of events here.
Well, here's the problem. Even though

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the national media and everybody has picked
it up, nobody is telling the story

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about the investigation that Greenwald and Mistretta
and Marillo have done. They've done a

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lot of great investigative work here,
but that's not being covered unfortunately, and

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they've done some great work. In
fact, Greenwald went on to do some

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research. He thought the objects looked
like they might be balloons. He also

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found on the website where he he
was able to trace where the tripang was

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to confirm it was in that area. He said that when it was out

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there, they were doing testing and
scientific experiments. So he looked up test

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balloons. Sure enough, found some
pictures of these gigantic balloons that looked very

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similar to what is in the images. I went to Wikipedia and looked at

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these balloons and I found some similar
ones myself. Now, these images are

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from the early nineteen hundreds of these
weird balloons, I nor Greenwald could find

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any from the seventies. But yeah, I think Greenwald's kind of cracked the

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case here. I think that's what
These are kind of test balloons that they

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fire at and they practiced shooting down. Oh, because this one that looks

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like it's exploding or something. Yeah, there's a couple images of these things

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exploding and sinking into the ocean and
that's what makes them so spectacular and wonderful.

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They're really cool looking picture, but
none of that has been completely confirmed

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yet, like you know where they
were from or when even if I mean,

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it's possible they're completely fabricated, photoshopped
hoaxes. But I think Greenwald seems

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to be on the right track.
If you look at the balloons in the

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images compared to what these alleged UFO
photos, I think that he's figured it

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out. So really cool investigation,
great work. Unfortunately, the investigation isn't

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being covered, which I think really
kind of sucks to put it bluntly,

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because you know, they try to
portray UFO researchers as he's, like I

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wrote it in my sort of wild
eyed believers, when actually a lot of

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them are really good researchers who are
looking for the truth, and there's some

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great research that's been done here.
In fact, Mestretta is going to talk

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more about it on July twenty first, Marillo, you know, holds this

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meet up in Los Angeles. Mastretta
is going to be there to talk about

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it, so people in the LA
area who want to meet these guys can

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do that. And we've got a
link in our story to that meetup.

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So yeah, so that's the story. Awesome. Well that's good investigative work

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by everyone. Yep, it really
is. Okay, So what else is

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happening? What else is happening is
another story that's making the news. It's

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on CNN and everywhere. And this
is the Welsh government replying to UFO questions

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and Klingon. We talked about this, I think a little bit on my

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show, but I have a little
more information. I interviewed Nick Pope yesterday.

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It'll be on our next UFO report
on YouTube about this. But what

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happened is this Welsh Assembly minister in
the Assembly for Cluid West, he asked

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a question and he about UFOs.
He said, you know our Cardiff airport,

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how many UFOs have been seen?
Above? It haves the Welsh Government

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work with the Ministry of Defense regarding
UFOs as the Welsh Government looked into UFOs

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and the response has been to make
fun of him and trash this guy.

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So, I mean a lot of
people have said, oh, that's funny,

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that's great, Welsh Government's so cool, especially because Comic CON's going on,

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But really it's really condescending and not
very cool. Of them. You

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know, they're they're obviously not taking
him serious at all, so they replied

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and clean on, They said,
Jean Vidoc loose car, I don't know,

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some kind of crazy cling on stuff. But what it means is the

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Minister will reply in due course.
However, this is a non devolved manner

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and we asked, you know,
Nick Pope about that. He says,

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what he means by a non devolved
matter is that they the Ministry of Defense

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does not consult the Welsh government.
It's kind of above them, and they

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don't, you know, go downwards. They don't tell you, hey,

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Welsh Government, here's what we're working
on. So they're kind of already alluding

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to, like Nick Pope says,
to passing the buck, which is something

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he says he did when he worked
for the Ministry of Defense, and that

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is common that they're probably going to
say, we don't know, ask the

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Ministry of Defense, for which,
of course, the Ministry of Defense is

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answered and talked about that issue often. Unfortunately, one of the Assembly sources,

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and anonymous Assembly sources had kind of
replied off the record, and he

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says the only extraterrestrial life seen near
Cardiff recently seems to be Darren Miller.

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Perhaps instead of spending time and wasting
government resources asking questions about UFO, he

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should be fighting for the very real
concerns of his constituents. Oh you bloak

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you that Chrissy British oh man.
But it was because of his constitution he

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was asking these questions because they were
coming from his constituents. So kind of

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frustrating, Nick Pope replied in a
tweet. He says, replying to an

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assemblyman's question on the UFOs and Klingon
is a great way to ridicule the subject.

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I did similar things at the MOD. Cauplaw kapla is another Klingon term

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for success, and in fact I
have him do this. If you want

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to see Nick Pope speaking Klingon,
you can watch your interview that we'll have

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out on Friday. But he essentially
says, you know, he called it

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spinning dirty tricks out When he was
working for the MOD about UFOs, they

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would do things like this to make
fun of UFOs. However, in the

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background they were taking the reports very
very seriously, although they were pretending not

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to. Something else I put in
my story that I think is very interesting

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is that in twenty twelve, Huffington
Post wrote about a pool that was done

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in the UK about UFOs and they
found that fifty two percent believe UFO evidence

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has been covered up because widespread knowledge
of their existence with threatened government stability.

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So, I mean, if you
look at this Welsh story or even this

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Navy story, it was the UK
media that picked it up. The UK

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media even references our website practically on
a weekly basis these days. And these

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are some of their bigger papers,
like The Mirror, the Daily Express.

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Their news papers out there are certainly
more tabloid like, but they write about

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UFOs much more over there, it
seems, especially per capita than we do

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over here. So UK people are
really into UFOs. So hopefully, I

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mean there's a backlash. I just
don't think that these politicians should be making

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light of real concerns from their citizens. Yeah, it's just, you know,

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it's part for the course, it's
status quo. And you know,

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it's kind of fun that the UK, uh, you know, has so

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many reports or so many you know, articles, only because of the fact

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that you know, when I speak
to people from over there, they say,

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well, we never get to see
UFOs. It's it's always Claudia Rainy,

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not always, but you know a
lot, yeah, which is a

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good point. I mean, it's
difficult to know because you know there are

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some organizations out there, but it's
difficult because it's not really apples to apples

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to tell if they have more reports
or not. But we do know in

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our own country that the center of
your areas do seem to have more sighting

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reports, so it's entirely possible,
and it could be why they're so interested

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in other people's sightings because a lot
of the stories they run over there are

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US siting. So for instance,
when I wrote we talked about this recently

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about June having a spike in sightings, they ran with that story out there

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and I don't even know if the
American media picked it up, but the

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UK picked it up like crazy,
which was really cool. So they're really

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interested in sightings even if they don't
happen in the UK, not like the

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US where we could really give a
damn what happens in other countries. For

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the most part. Good point there, So you have one more. We'll

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have to make it a little bit
short because we're okay a little bit late

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here. I'll do it really quick. Speaking of Americans not giving a damn

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about what happens in other countries,
there's a great UFO story from another country.

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This is just a story about some
Turkish pilots who recall some UFO sidings,

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their commercial airline pilots essentially, who
had a couple really cool experiences.

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One pilot just said that, you
know, he was up and him,

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along with four other aircraft or four
aircraft in total, saw this extremely bright

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light. They couldn't even look at
it directly. It was so incredibly bright.

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So really neat story. Then,
and then another story from anotherlet who

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said they saw some multicolor lights that
flew around and eventually turned into a white

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ball before disappearing. So really cool
sidings and funny enough. The Space editor,

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I think he writes for MSNBC these
days, but he's written for a

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lot Space dot com and everything.
Jim Oberg reply to my story. He

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does that sometimes, and it was
kind of funny, he says, And

247
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your reason for thinking the story was
significant without providing a daytime or location of

248
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it, was what exactly, especially
on an air route passing close to the

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Bechnor Cosmodrome. So his point being
that you know, in the flight path

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is a very popular place where they
launch rockets. And that's a great point.

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But of course he's being silly about
his first question. But the reason

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I bring that up because it's a
great question, why do we care?

253
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Because they're commercial pilots. And I
think you might agree, and certainly our

254
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readers agree that stories from commercial airline
pilots are very interesting because these are people

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who are flying and up in the
air, you know quite a bit.

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In fact, Obama's you know,
pilot for when he was a candidate,

257
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came out speaking about UFOs fairly recently, and that was a big story.

258
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People just really like to hear from
airline pilots. And what was interesting about

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Obama's pilot is that he said most
pilots believe in UFOs, and these two

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pilots say they believe in it as
well. So I think that's very interesting.

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What do you think? Absolutely,
You know, I seem to talk

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quite a bit about set showstack,
because I did when I was debating him

263
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on UFO's way Back and show number
twenty one or twenty two, I can't

264
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remember, you know, I brought
that up about you know, these are

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people more like trained observers like astronauts
and pilots and things like that, and

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he said, absolutely not. They're
no different than anyone else, and you

267
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know, it makes no difference.
I was kind of shocked by that because

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I would think anyone, you know, flying a plane would really need to

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know what's going on up there and
really pay attention. Yeah, it's really

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frustrating. I mean it's someone like
sess Shawstak will discount pilots even though pilots

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are in the air, that's where
they're spending their career. The rest of

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us don't have a career looking up
in the sky. But Shostak will also

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say, well, why don't astronomers
see UFOs and why aren't they into UFOs?

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And they are, Yes, that's
why they are. I did a

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talk in Roswell about this where it
was really astronomers who started the modern day

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research into UFOs. So they're mister
Shastak. Yeah, there you go.

277
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Well, hey, thanks so much. We ran a little long, but

278
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it was fun. It was good. I really appreciate it. Oh,

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I have one more thing to mention. I'm sorry, no problem, but

280
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speaking of astronomers and UFOs, Clyde
Tombas in the news a lot because he's

281
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the one who discovered Pluto, and
he was one of those astronomers who saw

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UFOs and there was a Life magazine
story about it in the fifties which was

283
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:07.759
a huge deal and really rekindled the
public's interest in UFOs. But that's an

284
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:12.720
interesting story that you see out there
in the news these days because of everything

285
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going on with Pluto, right,
And I hope the listener out there has

286
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checked out the image the images of
Pluto. It is really something to see

287
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.400
something like that, you know,
showing that some of the mountain ranges and

288
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you know it's an icy planet,
but boy what it's really actually great to

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be able to see that amazing stuff. It's amazing what mankind can do.

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Really, if you think about it, takes four hours for the signal the

291
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speed of light to reach the Earth. Call me a Pollyanna, but I

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think humans are pretty cool sometimes.
I'm there with you, man, all

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right, all right, Well,
thanks a lot, and I'll be talking

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to you next week, okay,
tek you later, all right, So

295
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everyone hanging there. We'll be right
back after this quick music break with Erica

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Luke's Erica Lukes, how are you? Did you unmuture Mike Erica, Yeah,

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oh I think I did. Now
that's me. Can you hear me?

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I can hear you? Fine,
Okay, this only happens on live

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00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:23.920
radio, by the way, I
know, of course. Welcome to the

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00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.319
show. Kat to come in and
you know, pull the mic down like

301
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:33.720
she did last time. So welcome
to the show. Thank you. Yes,

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and we follow. I don't know
if you follow each other on Facebook.

303
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.799
Whatever you do on Facebook. We
do. So we've had some nice

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00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:45.400
little back and forth for a while, and so I was excited to have

305
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.920
you on and talk about who you
are, what you do. And we

306
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:53.200
got some time to fill. So
let's talk about how you got interested in

307
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:59.160
the topic to begin with. You
know, it's a I've always been interested

308
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:03.839
in it and I when I was
six years old standing in my school library

309
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and I saw a book with the
UFO on the cover, and I picked

310
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.920
it up and it was like this
this attraction, and from there on out,

311
00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:17.839
I just read everything I could find. I did a lot of research

312
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:23.200
into the paranormal phenomena, and I
was always I was drawn to it.

313
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I'm a very intuitive person and an
artist by trade, and so it just

314
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:34.160
came naturally to me to want to
learn more about something like this. Now,

315
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.400
so you started out that young,
are you saying down? Did you

316
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.119
have any siblings that shared your interest
or anything? You know, I was

317
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:47.720
an only child, and clearly maybe
that explains a lot. Who knows,

318
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:53.759
but I you know, I was
always creative and imaginative, and I always

319
00:25:55.240 --> 00:26:02.160
had this yearning for for studying this
type of thing because I knew there was

320
00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:07.480
something much deeper going on and I
felt connected to it. I see.

321
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You know, it's funny, my
son's an only child, and I think

322
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:17.480
that a lot of times. And
I know a few others these people seem

323
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:22.000
to be very creative because you know, you're spending a lot of time with

324
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.000
yourself as you're young, and you
know, entertaining yourself, and you know,

325
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:32.559
there's a certain creative element that seems
to fall along with with the only

326
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.079
child. You know, you're not
kidding. Just ask my mom that she

327
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:41.960
would vouch for that. But you
know, I think it was great for

328
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.559
me. I mean, I used
to put on little plays in my bedroom

329
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and just sing and dance, and
I loved that. And I think because

330
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that's the way I processed things that
perhaps I was a little bit more open

331
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to intuition and the paranormal and UFOs
and things like that. So it was

332
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:06.039
it's always been fascinating. And I
remember picking up Communion when I was in

333
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:11.640
high school and that just that just
sent me reeling. Yeah. You know,

334
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.920
it's funny how many times that same
story you're just saying right there,

335
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.799
not high school. But there's so
many people that have been on this show

336
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:23.720
that that book has, you know, really changed the way they think.

337
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:26.799
And I've never even you know,
I have the book sitting on my shelf,

338
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:33.359
but until just recently, like last
Friday, I had no time to

339
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:36.599
do anything, and now I have
all the time in the world. Well,

340
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:38.799
no, because you're going on a
tour. You're going across the country

341
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.039
to come visit me. Okay,
all right, sounds like a plan.

342
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:49.559
Okay, Now, I am going
to say that anyone in the chat room,

343
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.680
if you'd like to pose a question
for Erica, you can go ahead.

344
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.599
And Eric is actually in there,
so be kind to her. And

345
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:02.000
also if any one would like to
call into the show, our number,

346
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:06.839
as always is six h three nine
six seven four three to zero. You

347
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.519
know what I just thought of,
I should post that on the website or

348
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.440
somewhere, so I don't have to
keep saying it over and over again.

349
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:15.880
But you know, Erica, we
do get occasionally, we get a call

350
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:18.920
during a show. Not a lot
of people are active in the chat room

351
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.759
usually, but don't call. So
don't don't hold out for that. You

352
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:29.400
can say whatever you want to say. So time goes on. You go

353
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.480
through high school. You read that, did you continue like on that path?

354
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:40.640
I'm sure you had careers and perhaps
college or whatever study you did.

355
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.720
How did all that go? You
know? I was so I started studying

356
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.799
classical voice when I was sixteen,
and I was in a lot of different

357
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:56.000
bands in Utah and performed did that
for a career, so my background was

358
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:03.880
vocal performance. And then I became
a master Pilates instructor and opened a business

359
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:10.519
and have had a business for fifteen
years teaching pilates and certifying plates instructors.

360
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.440
And the whole time I've been researching
and reading everything I could get my hands

361
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:22.279
on about the UFO phenomena, about
abductions and the paranormal as well, because

362
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:29.480
I've had an interesting experience with the
paranormal and I lived in a haunted house.

363
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.440
It was very very cool. So
I've had lots of interesting experiences around

364
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.880
me and it's been fantastic. Well, when I have to, you know,

365
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.960
I know this is UFO show,
but you know, I'm going to

366
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.319
have to ask you about the Hunted
House, okay, and why it was

367
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.640
the coolest thing we moved into.
I was gosh and my well, I'm

368
00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.440
not even going to tell you how
old I was. That's just too depressing.

369
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:57.000
But we moved into a house that
was one hundred years old, and

370
00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:03.160
at the time, my husband was
working late at night and so I would,

371
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:06.759
you know, just see things.
The toilet lid would be up the

372
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:11.599
seat, which was odd, and
I would notice that, I mean literally

373
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.000
a candle would just fly off the
shelf. All of these things started to

374
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.400
happen, and I thought it was
a little odd and kept excusing what was

375
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.160
going on around me and rationalizing it. And then one night I was going

376
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.319
to bed, walked through the kitchen
and I noticed a man leaning against the

377
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:32.079
counter and I thought that, okay, it's my husband. Went into bed

378
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:37.359
and he was in bed asleep,
so I immediately woke him up and I

379
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.400
just said, oh, my lord, I've been seeing this. This is

380
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.759
what's been happening, and he said, thank you. I've been not purposely

381
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.440
saying anything and I wanted to see
what you had to say because I've been

382
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:55.160
seeing a man in our house for
months. Wow. So it was a

383
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:59.359
really interesting experience. I think we
were both intuitive, but then we would

384
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:02.400
have you know, I kind of
panicked. I thought, oh my lord,

385
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:06.039
where were we living? And so
I called out a group and they

386
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.519
investigated. In fact, they did
several investigations and you know, caught the

387
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:18.599
typical EVPs, sawt apparitions. It
was very very cool. Whatever was there

388
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:25.279
was definitely some sort of I felt
like a benevolent force. And I have

389
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.359
to say when I left the house, I was I was very sad.

390
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.839
Well, you know, since we're
talking ghosts already, I'm going to just

391
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.960
tell a quick, oh dear,
quick ghost stories and that has only come

392
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.680
up I think once in one hundred
and fifty nine shows here. But anyway,

393
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:48.799
my father owned a house in southern
Maine and it was a very early

394
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.400
house around early seventeen hundreds, and
the house had already been moved once and

395
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.920
that it had a history, a
really interesting history that well, not kind

396
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.079
of a sad history, but it
was attacked by a bite Native Americans or

397
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:06.319
Indians, whatever you want to say. And they killed the children, which

398
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.039
was really sad. And they took
the wife, the woman away, and

399
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.440
in the middle of the night,
she got up, This is a true

400
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.599
story. She got up in the
middle of the night and she killed She

401
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.359
found a knife, she stabbed the
Indian and the whatever it was with her

402
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.319
shelter or whatever, and escaped and
went back to the house. Well that

403
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:27.559
was a story about that. Well, my father owned this house, and

404
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.440
my sister had an operation and she
said, Dad, I saw a little

405
00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:34.799
girl and he says, yeah,
I see her all the time, and

406
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:38.279
all these weird things they'd see.
My sister described it as a little girl

407
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:43.960
in a white dress that looked like
old fashioned and she'd see she'd say she'd

408
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:46.039
see, and then she wouldn't see
it, and then she'd see through it,

409
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:49.599
and you know, on and on. So I didn't really didn't pay

410
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:51.000
you know, I said, wow, you know, and all that.

411
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:52.799
Here I am in like high school
or something, so I didn't really pay

412
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:57.480
that much attention to it. Well, the land was sold, A big

413
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.319
mall came in. The house was
moved again down the about a half a

414
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:02.440
mile or so. So I stopped
in there one day because it was an

415
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:06.519
antique shop, and I got to
talk to the antique dealer and I finally

416
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:08.640
got up the courage and I said, has anyone ever talked about this place

417
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:12.119
being haunted? And he looks at
me, he goes, do you mean

418
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.480
the little girl in the white dress? Oh? I mean that's pretty amazing

419
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.400
to me. That is incredible.
And so he said, go talk to

420
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.519
the accountants. They've seen her too. So there was accountants inside and I

421
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.839
went in and talked to him and
one of them started laughing. He goes,

422
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:29.599
I don't want to talk about it. Isn't that incredible? You know?

423
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.559
When I the house that I lived
in was so active. I mean

424
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:36.680
I would have and these are really
skeptical people come over. They were my

425
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:39.720
friends, lots of them engineers,
so they would you know, yeah,

426
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:45.160
yeah whatever, and you know,
pretty soon they'd have an experience and it

427
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:49.640
was a little shocking for them.
But after, you know, I lived

428
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.160
there for a while, the house
was on TV and it was in a

429
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:59.680
local magazine and I had somebody facebook
me actually and said, oh did you

430
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.960
live such and such an address?
Because I went I lived next door to

431
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.799
that house. Back when I was
ten years old and my girlfriend and I

432
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:13.480
were down in the basement and we
had an experience that scared us so so

433
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.119
much that we ran to our bishop
and the bishop said to never talk about

434
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:22.239
it again. And here we are. Wow. You know, I know

435
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:24.679
the listener out there comes to listen
to the show for UFOs, So you

436
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:30.559
have to forgive me. But you
know, the thing that comes up occasionally

437
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:36.000
as people talk, you know,
where there's ghosts, there's UFOs, there's

438
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.320
Bigfoot, there's you know, kryptoids, there's all kinds of weird things going

439
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:43.400
on at once. You know,
I don't know if any of that's true

440
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.599
or not, if there's any type
of relation, but there is some type

441
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.880
of answer for what's happening. And
I think, you know, it's an

442
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:59.039
elusive as UFOs in general. But
also you know, I don't know if

443
00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:02.199
they'll be figured out, same thing
as UFOs. You know, I hope

444
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:07.239
they will, but I don't know
if they actually will or not. You

445
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:10.039
know, I think that for me, the more I learn about this subject,

446
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:16.719
the more I probably lean towards saying
that these this phenomena is, you

447
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:22.760
know, the paranormal ghosts. This
is this could be connected with the UFO

448
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:28.079
phenomena. When you're looking at abductions, many people that have had abduction experiences

449
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:32.000
will see the orbs by their bed, and you know, so we just

450
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:37.599
the bottom line is, we don't
know. It's unexplained and until we're willing

451
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:44.920
to really put effort into it in
serious research and quit debating whether they're here

452
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.199
or not. I think there's enough
evidence to say they are. So now

453
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:50.960
what are we going to do about
it? How are we going to research

454
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:57.599
this phenomena and work together? Right? Right? So, Erica, you

455
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:01.480
are now the director of Muffon of
Utah. I am state director for Utah.

456
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.440
Move on, and I love it. There's so much going on in

457
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.880
this state. It's just been fun. You know. I can understand a

458
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:14.880
lot of times we talk about there's
more sightings and where there's clearer skies,

459
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.280
I don't know. I think that
definitely plays into it. When you think

460
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:22.320
of places like England, which we
spoke about earlier in the news. How

461
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:25.360
you know it's cloudy there a lot, it's rainy there a lot. But

462
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:32.159
in states like California, Arizona,
and Utah, I'm sure Nevada there's a

463
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:38.559
lot of sunshine and which means clear
skies and probably more sightings, right,

464
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:43.400
And I think that we do have
a lot of sightings in Utah. Now

465
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:49.960
my job is as state director is
to encourage people to report them. Yeah,

466
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.639
because wow, you know we have
a skin with this is skinwalk or

467
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:59.239
ranch territory right now. Speaking of
that, you know, we've had a

468
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.920
couple of guests on recently where two
weeks in a row, So I won't

469
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:08.880
belabor it too much, but where
we talk about the amount of UFO sightings

470
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:15.000
compared to the actual reports. And
I'm sure you see exactly that, right,

471
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:20.000
yes, exactly. And I don't
know, you know, we can't

472
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.880
fill out reports for people, you
know, that's just they have to do

473
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:29.320
it themselves. And you know,
there's got to be a lot of psychology

474
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:32.880
that goes along with the reason why
people won't do that. I think there

475
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:37.679
is, and I think you know
some of it is. Up until now,

476
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.360
it's been really really hard. Where
do you go to report stuff?

477
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:44.639
I know when I had my sightings
in Utaw, the first thing I did

478
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:50.480
was try to contact the FAA,
and I learned that lesson really quickly.

479
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:54.480
Yeah, but when you go to
the FA's website. At the time when

480
00:37:54.480 --> 00:38:00.880
I went there, they referred you
to Bigelow Aerospace and then to Newfork and

481
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:06.480
so, and the number for Bigelow
was out of service. And in New

482
00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:12.719
Fork I paid Peter Davenport was fantastic, and but there was nobody here in

483
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:16.920
Utah really actively researching what was going
on. So I hope that I can

484
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:22.960
encourage people not only here but all
over to take take the time go to

485
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:28.320
moufon file a report because this is
this is vital to our research. Okay,

486
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.559
so let's let's talk a little bit
about research. Are you active in

487
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:37.320
actually researching cases or you know,
being the director is at a different type

488
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:42.320
of role. You know, I
do both. It's you know, he

489
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:46.440
It's just it's challenging because I have
right now, I'm building up a chapter

490
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:52.159
that was basically defunct and so I've
stepped in and we had a really small

491
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:57.679
number of members and I'm rebuilding that. And then I'll get cases and and

492
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:02.920
try to research them and and run
a business and have a family. But

493
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.639
then do I do a lot of
work from moof on headquarters as well.

494
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:12.280
But it's a work in progress.
Wow, Okay, So I've just been

495
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.480
sort of corrected on the chat room. We have a listener in the chat

496
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:19.559
room from South England, and I
must be like, in the middle of

497
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:23.719
the night, there isn't it.
He calls himself. I love Martin.

498
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:30.360
I love that guy anyway, So
he says it's clear most of the time

499
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:36.559
there, So I take that back. I stand corrected, and so I

500
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:40.639
would be interested to hear. Like
earlier on in the newscast, we were

501
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:46.679
talking about how there are so many
stories about UFOs in the UK press,

502
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:53.199
so it would be interesting to actually
find out exactly why and what the general

503
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:58.079
thoughts were there. So maybe we
should go over there. You should go

504
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:01.400
over there on your tour. I
should yeah, since I'm unemployed, I'll

505
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:06.760
go anywhere. Anywhere the wind blows
or the UFO is below any you know

506
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:12.360
float, I will go. Yeah. So it's one forty in the morning.

507
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:16.000
Thanks for joining us over there and
listening live. And speaking of that,

508
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:20.320
if you are listening live, you
can jump in the chat room that's

509
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:24.320
that podcast UFO dot com and ask
our guests tonight a question again the phone

510
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:29.559
number six oh three nine six seven
four to oh three zero, And I

511
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:34.679
have to say that A couple of
times I've missed calls because a little behind

512
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:37.360
the scenes here, you know,
I've got three different computers set up and

513
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.599
the calls come in on one that's
to my heart right, and sometimes I

514
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:44.920
miss a call, and if I
do, I apologize. So Eric,

515
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.400
if you happen to see one pop
up and I don't get it, stop

516
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:54.920
what you're saying and say something if
you would. Okay, yeah, so

517
00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:00.719
you do actually some of the investigating
yourself. But a busy life. Most

518
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:05.079
people have busy lives that are involved
in mofon. We do, and I

519
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:10.119
think an important thing to remember is
that this is a volunteer organization. When

520
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:15.800
I first joined Moufon, I was
absolutely shocked at the amount of money that

521
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:22.440
people spend from their own personal funds, the time commitments, and the patients

522
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:28.440
and the perseverance that they put into
researching this. Most of them never get

523
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:35.039
any attention for their great contributions,
and it's it's something that needs to change,

524
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:38.280
and I really hope people realize that
we need we need volunteers, we

525
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:45.039
need support, we need donations to
help us get really great equipment to research

526
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:51.960
this move on. I have loved
my experience in MoveOn and how many years

527
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:54.840
I've been there for two years?
Oh, two years and you're already the

528
00:41:54.920 --> 00:42:00.880
director. Wow. Well you know
I'm a quick mover. Yeah. Yeah.

529
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:04.960
So just a few minutes ago you
mentioned something about a sighting you had,

530
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.599
so can you tell us about that? Yes, it was twenty thirteen.

531
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:14.079
I live in an area of Salt
Lake, and I have an amazing

532
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.559
view, and so I would sit
down on my deck and have a barbecue,

533
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:21.679
have the friends over, and I
would get you know, I'd just

534
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:27.440
see the beautiful sunsets. I could
tell what aircraft was coming in and all

535
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:31.320
of that the normal activity. And
I'd noticed one night as I was watching

536
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:37.639
the sunset, I'd noticed this bright
orange sphere and I thought, okay,

537
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:42.760
that's very odd. The light was
different than it would be if it were

538
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.679
a plane. It was. It
was amazing, and I just I watched

539
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:52.280
it for quite some time, grab
my binoculars. I had some friends over,

540
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:57.039
and then I noticed that there was
a big object, and then it

541
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:00.280
appeared that another one dropped out of
a smaller object. The object went around

542
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:06.920
in a circle around the bigger object, and I just sat there like alrighty

543
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:12.239
really wow, And to me you
know, we were just in shock.

544
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:16.960
But you know then as I looked
through the binoculars, there were no discerning

545
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:22.199
I mean, it was a solid
light. I couldn't see any landing lights,

546
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:28.320
and it was pretty shocking. I
began to after that. I began

547
00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:32.639
to set up my video equipment every
night, and almost like clockwork, these

548
00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:37.480
objects would appear. And sometimes they
would appear from the base of a mountain

549
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.639
and move up and one you know
this, this object would move up and

550
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.960
just just hover and then it would
go away. And then another one would

551
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:50.960
rise up at the same location and
hover and then follow the same flight path,

552
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.920
and it did it a third time. And you watch this and you

553
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:58.039
just think, oh, my lord, am I the only person in the

554
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:04.519
world that's seeing this. So that's
what set me in motion, and it

555
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:08.559
set me on the path of reaching
out to Newfork, talking to moufon,

556
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:16.199
realizing that we need to have some
serious investigation here in Utah. Now,

557
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:20.360
do you still live in the same
place you did in twenty thirteen? I

558
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:23.199
do? And are these things still
going on? Is it still happening?

559
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:28.400
They are? And I wish that
I had as much time as I did

560
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.079
back then to sit out on the
porch they are. We're still getting reports.

561
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:37.440
Many reports are over the Kennicott Copper
Minds, which I find interesting,

562
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:43.280
and the Ochra Mountains, so that
the same places that I observe these objects.

563
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:51.280
I'm in the process of doing a
research project with Moufon called Project Orange,

564
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:57.199
and we are specifically researching the Orange
orb phenomena. Is that with Bob

565
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.679
Davis? Is that the right person? It's with Robert Sparring and Terry Ray.

566
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:05.159
Terry Ray, That's who I was
thinking of. Yeah, you know,

567
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:10.679
it's interesting that you just mentioned the
copper, the copper quarries or whatever

568
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.679
it is that you just said,
because I'm trying to remember. Is it

569
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:21.760
Brown Mountain? Yeah, Brown Mountain
lights the same thing. That's a real

570
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:27.320
hotspot and there's many, many,
many sightings over you know, in the

571
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:34.159
Brown Mountain area, and also it
has a high content of copper and right

572
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.800
in that valley right there, And
I'm wondering, you know, I hear

573
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:43.280
you talking about this. There seems
to be a link, because I think

574
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:47.760
that's the third time I've heard something
about that. Now it's very, very

575
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:54.800
possible that this could be some type
of natural phenomenon that happens because of copper

576
00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:00.599
and say, you know, it's
kind of like how you you make a

577
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:04.119
battery, you know, I mean
you get different elements, you know what.

578
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.480
I'm going way out of my field
here and I'm probably going to say

579
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:12.320
something totally wrong. But anyway,
it's a possibility that something like that has

580
00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:17.320
a natural element to it. I
agree with that, and there are people

581
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.199
you know, then of course that's
something that we have to rule out when

582
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.119
we're investigating. But the thing that
is becoming apparent is that these objects are

583
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:36.719
moving with intelligence, and they're in
some cases they're responding to people and a

584
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:40.960
person's awareness of the object. So
I think that there might be a little

585
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:44.920
bit more going on, but that's
part of the research project, you know

586
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.400
process. How do you definitively say
it is not that? So now we

587
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:52.840
move on to this, right,
well, that would you know, when

588
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:58.679
something has an element like that that
can't be explained, then that's you know,

589
00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:04.039
it moves further and for they're away
from a natural course, of course

590
00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:09.519
it does. Any updates on the
July fourth part of Project orange on that's

591
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:13.280
on the message board. Oh and
I love that. Thank you for asking

592
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:16.880
that, So I right, now
Robert Spearing is going through all of the

593
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:23.320
July fourth sidings reports. He's been
amazing and he's almost got all of the

594
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:29.639
states done with the help of my
assistant state director, and he is He's

595
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:35.280
had to put in weather data,
really weed out the good cases and cases

596
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:37.920
that are not cases that would be
Chinese lanterns. I hate to even say

597
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:45.320
that, but so we're gaining lots
of headway there, and then we have

598
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:52.320
to get into the real nuts and
bolts of the study and start identifying how

599
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:57.360
the objects are behaving. Is there
a specific time of day, where are

600
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:04.400
the sidings clusters? And my one
of my tasks is to have a map

601
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:09.320
where I can layer you know,
the minds mineral content, rare earth content

602
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:15.760
I would like to do, you
know, the military installations, the aeronautical

603
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:20.760
charts, bodies of water, uh
you know there. We've had lots of

604
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:28.320
reports of these objects over radio towers, so you could go anywhere with this,

605
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:34.599
and and I think we definitely need
to to start doing some some cool

606
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:40.239
stuff with maps and figuring out why
why these objects are attracted to specific areas.

607
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:45.840
Now, are there other a lot
of other sightings of different you know,

608
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:51.039
well, I want to say crafts
or do you hear about the triangle

609
00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:58.119
sightings out there? We do and
they there, you know, we get

610
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:02.000
a few of those. Honestly eighty
percent of the case reports. Are the

611
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:09.960
orbs really that high? Yeah,
yep, amazing and on a regular basis

612
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:15.599
sake, you know, we just
as happenstance is. We had someone from

613
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:20.960
mouf On last week. I'm not
doing this on purpose, it just happened

614
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:25.360
like that, and I just want
to know he was saying that. I

615
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:30.079
believe he said they get about sixteen
to thirty reports a month in that state,

616
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:35.119
which is pretty high for you know, because it's a small state.

617
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.599
Do you know approximately how many reports
roll in per month? Oh boy,

618
00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:44.079
you know, I am very sad
to say that it's between eight and ten.

619
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.880
Uh huh, Well again, you
know, I mean statistically, if

620
00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:51.400
you look at it that way,
there's probably a heck of a lot of

621
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.119
them happening and only eight or ten
roll in. You know, that's one

622
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:59.920
of the things. Just it's raising
public awareness and letting people know that they're

623
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.320
as a place to file a report. And a really cool thing is that

624
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:09.000
Moufon has been working very hard to
revamp the CMS and the way people can

625
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:15.559
input reports. I think that changing
that up and making it more accessible will

626
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:21.519
be helpful and we'll see our numbers
increase with reports. You know. I

627
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:24.480
think the average person today, with
all the information coming at them and every

628
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:30.119
which way, the average person has
a shorter attention span than ever, you

629
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:35.079
know, So yeah, you'd have
to anything you're doing today, you have

630
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.159
to keep that in mind, and
you know, make things as simple as

631
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:44.719
possible. You know. It's kind
of sad, isn't it. Technology is

632
00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:49.239
dumbing us down? You know,
I really, I really think that is

633
00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:52.119
the case. It's too bad because
now we're so you know, fixed to

634
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:57.719
our iPhones and we're always looking down
and we never pay attention to our surroundings.

635
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:01.519
That's right. I sat on a
lot of really really profound, amazing

636
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:07.719
things, that's right. Yeah,
we're this is way way off topic.

637
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.239
But last year I took a couple
of days off and I couldn't use my

638
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:15.280
phone or computer, and I was
jonesing for it. I was like crawling

639
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.280
the walls for the first day,
and then the second day I never wanted

640
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:23.880
to go back to them again.
You know. It's like a pacifier,

641
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:30.400
I think, Yeah, it does
something to you chemically to check your email.

642
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:35.280
There was some type of report about
that. How it's almost like some

643
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:39.360
type of addiction on how we need
to keep checking our email or keep being

644
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:44.440
in touch, you know, when
the world is going around right there and

645
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:46.639
we were glued to it. We
have a question up on the message board.

646
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:52.559
Do you have any suggestions on equipment
for the amateur observer watcher, camera,

647
00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:57.199
lens, computer, et cetera.
You know, that's another great question,

648
00:51:57.400 --> 00:52:00.679
and we need more people like you, because we need people that are

649
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:05.440
out there doing it with good equipment. Anything with that, if you can

650
00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:08.400
get it at night vision, anything
with the night vision is fantastic. I

651
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:14.519
have a pair of night vision binoculars
night Jaguar. I just love that name

652
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:19.559
that I am using right now.
Those are great. You have to make

653
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:21.960
sure you don't look at the city
lights with them. I learned that one

654
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:29.360
the hard way, but that's wonderful. It is incredibly difficult to take photos

655
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:34.280
of a moving object at night,
and so I have been working with our

656
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:38.440
photo analyst here trying to hone in
on what I need to do to make

657
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:43.400
that happen a little bit better.
And so I will keep you guys posted

658
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:49.480
on that as we learn more stuff
than Wilburt Allen has taken some amazing videos

659
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.079
and photo I'm hoping next week I
can talk with him and just pick his

660
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:57.840
brain about good equipment. Yeah,
that's it. You know, this is

661
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:00.440
the first time this has ever happened
to be. I live on top of

662
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:06.239
a mountain in Maine, and I
don't know if the listener can hear it,

663
00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:09.360
but there's coyotes howling in the background. I've never heard that this first

664
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:17.400
time. It must be the government
because I'm talking about UFOs now exactly.

665
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:22.280
Yeah. I'm actually way too relaxed
tonight. So you're going to have to

666
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:25.039
do the rest of the show.
Oh no, it could be really frightening

667
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:28.920
for you, I'm telling you.
So. Speaking of that, we have

668
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:30.639
only a few more minutes. We
do take a quick break. It's just

669
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:35.239
a little like five second break at
the top of the hour. But let's

670
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:40.119
talk about your show that is starting
this Friday. I am so excited.

671
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:47.199
It's called UFO Audit on KGRA Radio. I will be interviewing some of the

672
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:54.039
top researchers in the field, like
you, and also my goal and what

673
00:53:54.079 --> 00:54:00.440
I'm going to be doing is honoring
a member of the community. And this

674
00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:05.559
this Friday, I am going to
be talking about James Clarkson, who is

675
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:09.599
who's an amazing investigator. He's been
with move On for a long long time.

676
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:14.639
He is the state director up in
Washington State, and he's written a

677
00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:19.679
couple of books, one specifically on
June Crane. So it'll be fun to

678
00:54:20.719 --> 00:54:23.719
honor and talk about people that have
made a great contribution in the field.

679
00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:28.719
Wow, and do you have I
know what it's like, of course to

680
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:32.039
run a show, and you know, we could guess it's thick and thin.

681
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:38.400
But usually people I've noticed in this
field because I I used to do

682
00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:44.880
a podcast with comedians and which was
a lot of fun. I got to

683
00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:47.800
say, but you know, booking
a comedian is not easy, especially if

684
00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:54.119
they're a headliner or a name.
So but are you finding that you have

685
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:59.039
guests lined up ahead of time?
You know, I have been really lucky.

686
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.519
I I've been working hard, and
I think because of the work I've

687
00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:05.960
done for moof On, people have
a good idea of who I am.

688
00:55:06.039 --> 00:55:13.559
So I have Peter Robbins, Denise
Stoner, Paula Harris, Richard Dolan and

689
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:16.079
so I think it'll be great.
You know, I've got all of these

690
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:22.039
wonderful people, and there are are
people that I've developed relationships with and have

691
00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:28.039
a lot of respect for. There
are many other people that I've found as

692
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:34.239
well that are witnesses experiencers, and
these people need to have a platform to

693
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:37.199
tell their story as well. Now, tell us what station you're on?

694
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:43.119
K How does that? What's that
station you're on? It's kg R A

695
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:46.320
radio. Oh that's right, k
g R A. I think I was.

696
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:51.000
I may have been on that for
a short time, or I might

697
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.079
be confusing with it now. I
was on one for a very short time,

698
00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:59.480
and I can't remember what the heck
happened. But I'm sure you'll have

699
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:02.119
a good run. Well, we'll
have to get you on there. Well,

700
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:05.760
just to back up a little bit, I heard you. I believe

701
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:07.360
you said that I was a researcher. I am not a researcher, just

702
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:13.079
to let you know, but I
just have I guess I could be called

703
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:17.639
an armchair researcher, but I just
am into the topic. I enjoy the

704
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:25.599
topic. I enjoy speaking to intelligent
and interesting people and hearing everybody's thoughts on

705
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:30.679
what could possibly be going on.
That's what really keeps me glued to it

706
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:36.320
and gets me excited to just hear
different perspectives and you know, it'll be

707
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:40.960
interesting to I would like for you
to I'll just throw this at you if

708
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:47.599
you'd like to just bring up the
topic with Richard Dolan when he's on about

709
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:52.559
where he stands now with the alien
slides from May fifth. I'd like to

710
00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:59.280
know how he feels after the whole
thing kind of crumbled, some people saying

711
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:02.519
it's not crumbled. But so we
can talk a little bit more about that

712
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:07.639
in the second half. We just
have a couple of minutes. Graz left

713
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:13.800
here and I thought I saw oh, I thought I had a question up

714
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:15.280
there, but it was actually a
compliment to you. So which is I

715
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:19.239
know, Phil, thank you,
you really made my night. That makes

716
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:22.199
me very happy. Well, I
was telling everyone in the message room to

717
00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:27.960
be kind because I'll just leave it
at that. Well, they're being very

718
00:57:28.039 --> 00:57:31.880
kind, and I appreciate the support
and it's nice to have good feedback.

719
00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:36.639
And if anyone would like to call
in, we'll be taking a break here

720
00:57:36.639 --> 00:57:40.800
in a second. And it's a
six o three nine six seven four oh

721
00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:49.599
three oh and so your show.
How how did that come about? I

722
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:52.199
since I have a background in music
and I've done, you know, all

723
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:59.719
of this performing, I've done radio
voiceovers, recorded lots of CDs. To

724
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:04.880
me, it's a very fun natural
thing. And when I started to work

725
00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:08.679
for moof on Headquarters, I was
doing some video things for them, and

726
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:14.400
I have guests hosted the moof On
radio show, which I really love to

727
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:17.400
do. I'm like you, I
love to talk to people and connect and

728
00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:23.079
to allow people to share their stories. And so it just one thing led

729
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:29.679
to another and then Race Hobbs was
fantastic and we decided to do the show

730
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:32.519
and here and here we are.
Wow, well you do. I do

731
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:37.280
have to say you are. You're
very relaxing to talk to. You have

732
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:44.519
a very nice voice, and uh
so that's why I feel so relaxed,

733
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:49.800
thank you. Besides being unemployed.
Yeah, both of that. I'm not

734
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:52.119
going to harp on that too much. Well, we're ready to take a

735
00:58:52.199 --> 00:59:53.000
little quick music break. Don't go
anywhere, all right, We're back with

736
00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:58.719
Erica LUs and again if you want
to call in six o three nine six

737
00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:06.480
seven four oh three to zero.
And so Erica, I can't remember what

738
01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:07.719
I said I was going to ask
you more about in the second part of

739
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:12.960
the show. Oh lord, I
don't even know if I should remind you,

740
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:15.920
but it might be it might be
Roswell the slides. Oh yes,

741
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:21.639
yeah, yeah, you probably shouldn't. So I had made kind of a

742
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:23.480
vow on the show because what I
did is I had right after that,

743
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:25.960
I had a show just about the
slides only, and then I said,

744
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:30.880
Okay, I'm making a promise to
you that I won't keep talking about this.

745
01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:36.519
But you and I had a brief
conversation during our soundcheck today and you

746
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:39.880
said that you speak with himI all
the time. You also speak with Kurt

747
01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:44.280
Collins, so you're speaking to these
people on both sides of the fence.

748
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:50.280
Now. Because of that, I
I'm really scared to ask this question,

749
01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:53.639
but I'm thinking I'm going to ask
it anyway. What do you think,

750
01:00:54.119 --> 01:01:00.480
Oh, dear, I think that
I'm kind of yeah, I it is.

751
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:04.800
It's amazing because I don't know at
the end of the day what will

752
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:09.440
happen. I think for me,
being in the role of the person that

753
01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:15.880
interviewed Heimie at such a volatile time
was fascinating because I had to do a

754
01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:22.320
lot of research. I talked to. You know, I was fortunate enough

755
01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:27.320
to have a friend that was one
of the foremost Native American historians in the

756
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:31.440
world, and so I could talk
with him about the burial practices of Native

757
01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:35.840
Americans. And then, you know, I mean, I talked to so

758
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:43.039
many different people, and I did
talk to Heimie and everyone involved with with

759
01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:46.920
the May fifth presentation. You know, when I talked to Kurt, and

760
01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:51.239
I knew if I was going to
do a good interview, I had to

761
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.360
have both sides of the story because
you know, like we all know,

762
01:01:53.480 --> 01:02:00.880
the truth is somewhere in the middle. I do feel that Heimi did not

763
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:07.440
get involved with this to deceive anybody. I believe that Tom and Don approached

764
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:15.519
him with something that they were genuinely
excited about, and the ball got rolling,

765
01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:20.639
and that's what happened. And there
was I will say that I watched.

766
01:02:20.679 --> 01:02:23.079
I kind of sat back and watched. Before the presentation, there was

767
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:30.079
a very intense social media campaign that
was taking place, and a lot of

768
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:36.719
it was, in my opinion,
perhaps maybe a little bit over zealous and

769
01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:40.039
unjustified. Not it was you know
what, you know what I mean,

770
01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:46.239
I was following that too, and
I think that I think that even the

771
01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:51.719
people on that side would agree with
you, because there was a lot of

772
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:54.360
talk, like, for instance,
Kurt and I had a discussion. You

773
01:02:54.400 --> 01:03:00.199
know that it did get a little
harsh, a little harsher, and it

774
01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:04.760
needed to. But I think people
were really pissed off. They were they

775
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:13.119
were angry that there wasn't real thorough
research by a lot of people that would

776
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:15.960
really know what was going on.
Or for instance, you know this whole

777
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:23.559
thing about the plaquard not being able
to be be deciphered, you know that

778
01:03:23.559 --> 01:03:28.800
that type of thing. Anyway,
here I am, I'm going back on

779
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:30.760
my word, I help the the
word forgive me because we're talking about it.

780
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:35.920
It's so good though, I mean, this whole thing, the whole

781
01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:39.440
debacle, there's so many lessons to
learn, and I think there's still a

782
01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:45.079
lot of information that hasn't been brought
forth to me. When I've talked to

783
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:50.239
the people that were involved with the
May fifth presentation, they feel that they

784
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:54.599
did do a lot of research.
From what I saw they did as well,

785
01:03:55.119 --> 01:04:00.760
and I think somewhere along the line
it got no I don't know if

786
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:04.239
maybe the fact that there were so
many problems with the broadcast. It wasn't

787
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:10.599
broadcast in English, and so there
was something that was definitely lost in translation.

788
01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:15.440
There it was, but I think
that at some point in time there

789
01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:20.679
was so much momentum going that it
wouldn't have mattered how much research was presented

790
01:04:20.679 --> 01:04:26.639
that was credible, because somebody was
going to go down right. Well,

791
01:04:27.159 --> 01:04:32.599
okay, so one of my listeners
reminded me to stop talking about it,

792
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:36.840
but it is it is. I
do want to say this, and closing

793
01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:42.199
about the subject is that I think
it was George Knapp. I'm pretty sure

794
01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:46.239
as the one who said that upology
took care of itself and it really that

795
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:49.559
it really is, you know.
I mean, there were people that really

796
01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:55.519
really went hard to work on this, and you know, I think that

797
01:04:55.639 --> 01:04:59.039
was an honorable thing for them to
do. Yes, there was some bashing,

798
01:04:59.079 --> 01:05:02.239
but still there was some peopleeople that
did some honest to goodness work to

799
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:05.719
try to figure out what this thing
was. And you know, I have

800
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:11.280
to tell you right off the bat, the very first instant I saw that,

801
01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:14.920
I thought it was a mummy,
you know, I mean, it

802
01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:16.519
just and I think there was there's
got to be a lot of people that

803
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:20.760
felt the same way. And I've
done a lot of museum work, and

804
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:25.559
right away I started looking at other
elements, and you know, right away,

805
01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:28.679
I just I thought it was something
in a museum. There's not going

806
01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:33.159
to be something encapsulated in something with
the adjustable shelves and glass, you know,

807
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:38.199
like a museum showcase. And anyway, all right, I'm done.

808
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:44.320
I'm done. And how about those
cubs? I know? Yeah, yeah,

809
01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:47.480
the subject to baseball? Yeah yeah. How's the weather? Is it

810
01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:55.599
good? Well? Yes? So? But anyway, have you known getting

811
01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:58.679
back to just a little bit around
the edge of that, have you known

812
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:02.400
himI for a long time. I
first actually got involved with himI, and

813
01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:08.559
this is kind of a funny story. I was contacted by Muffon's executive director

814
01:06:09.199 --> 01:06:15.039
and Jimi had said, hey,
I found this great video of these orbs

815
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:17.599
over Salt Lake, and I wanted
to do an interview with your state director

816
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:23.480
and see what she knows about the
topic. And the video that the executive

817
01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:28.119
director sent me was one of mine, oh, that I had posted on

818
01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:30.840
YouTube. I mean, it was
just it was just kind of funny the

819
01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:35.519
way it worked out. But so
I worked with Heimi and he got me

820
01:06:35.559 --> 01:06:41.320
in touch with some people here in
Utah, and then did a few segments

821
01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:46.079
with regards to the sightings that we
had had here, which was, you

822
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:49.320
know, ctits that's great, that's
helpful to me. I know what I

823
01:06:49.400 --> 01:06:53.840
filmed, I know what I saw
and what other people have seen, and

824
01:06:53.880 --> 01:07:00.679
so that was I really appreciated him
for doing that. Right now. I

825
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:03.400
tried to get him on oh,
I don't know, maybe a year or

826
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:11.199
so ago, because I was really
fascinated in some of the Mexico sightings that

827
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:15.440
happened, you know, like for
instance, during the solar eclipse. You

828
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:17.440
know that that some people are saying
it's venus, but I don't know what

829
01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:21.599
it was, but it was.
They were seen all over the place and

830
01:07:23.039 --> 01:07:25.920
really interesting. And I did try
to get him on the show, and

831
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:30.880
I had a connection at one time
with him, but it just never went

832
01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:36.400
anywhere. You know, he's a
fascinating man, but I don't I don't

833
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:42.280
know, without me getting back into
the slides, I'm just going to move

834
01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:45.800
on to another subject. Well I
think you know it, just without you

835
01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:50.079
know, talking about the slides,
I will say just with regards to HAIMI,

836
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:56.559
you know, I my experiences with
him have been positive and I know

837
01:07:56.679 --> 01:08:01.840
several people that have grown up in
Mexico and they remember him as a child

838
01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:09.119
being on the air and talking about
this subject, and so that's that's always

839
01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:14.280
a great thing. Anything that can
build awareness and make the UFO phenomena something

840
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:16.920
that is more acceptable for people to
talk about. To me, that is

841
01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:25.840
a very important part of getting the
mainstream scientific community to research this. I

842
01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:31.319
do agree. And I've seen many
times another side of that, when someone

843
01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:39.640
is involved and then somewhere along the
line there's a turn taken, or perhaps

844
01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:45.720
a story is revealed that one of
their main things they've been researching for years

845
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:50.960
ends up, you know, not
being so or debunked, or another explanation

846
01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:55.920
is given, and they stay hard
fast. I've seen this happen a number

847
01:08:55.960 --> 01:09:00.600
of times in and I don't think
you know, I'd be really really shocked

848
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:05.800
if if he changed his tack on
this whole situation. Right, Yeah,

849
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:13.359
I know you're you're being diplomatic,
and I've already been told to stop talking

850
01:09:13.399 --> 01:09:17.319
about it on the chat room by
someone leave you alone, so and I

851
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:23.680
will, so we'll move on.
Are there other people that you talk with

852
01:09:24.239 --> 01:09:30.119
regularly, like in the field,
you know, I talk with Robert Pewell

853
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:35.079
from from Moufon, who's the chief
ahead of the Scientific Review Board. I

854
01:09:35.119 --> 01:09:40.319
talked with Jan Harzan, our executive
director, several times a week, and

855
01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:46.840
he's a really fantastic man with amazing
experience. I talked to Ben Moss,

856
01:09:47.039 --> 01:09:53.039
who is a great friend of mine. He was on Hanger one. Gosh

857
01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:57.560
and Ron Riguer I saw Jim quite
a bit. I know you were mentioning

858
01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:02.199
him. He was awesome. Also
Ben Moss, I met him in Phoenix

859
01:10:02.319 --> 01:10:09.880
last year and really liked him,
and he is the one who really inspired

860
01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:15.159
me to make sure that I was
going to go to Ray Stanford's house,

861
01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:19.159
which I plan on doing possibly even
next week. I'm going to try to

862
01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:23.880
go down there and do a live
show from Ray's house down in Maryland.

863
01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:30.199
So I hope that kim Me posted
that is fantastic. Ben has worked so

864
01:10:30.319 --> 01:10:35.199
hard on MA and forging a relationship
with Ray that that's really really neat.

865
01:10:35.720 --> 01:10:44.960
Yeah, so I did meet him, And anyway, let's see, so

866
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:47.560
you speak to all those people.
Now, you mentioned just a minute ago

867
01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:54.920
that one of them was on this
Scientific Review Board. Can you tell us

868
01:10:54.960 --> 01:11:00.439
what that is exactly? So the
movef on has the Abduction Research Team.

869
01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:04.479
We have the Scientific Review Board,
and we have you know, Robert Powell

870
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:09.800
as the head of the Scientific Review
Board, and so he and his team

871
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:13.960
and there are people on the Review
Board from all over the world. Really

872
01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:20.159
that the information coming in and they
analyze cases, Robert specifically to find it,

873
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:26.600
to look at the top cases.
And then they you know, they're

874
01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:31.079
working with us with the Project Orange
and the research that we're doing. They've

875
01:11:31.119 --> 01:11:33.680
written. In fact, if you
go to the mof on website, you'll

876
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:41.119
see different papers that have been written
by the Scientific Review Board. They're amazing

877
01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:47.640
individuals and it's really the foundation of
MOFON. Speaking of that, I mentioned

878
01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:56.039
a number of different shows here about
Mark D'Antonio. He's the move On video

879
01:11:56.199 --> 01:12:01.920
photo analyst. Great guy. I
consider him a friend. Recently, as

880
01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:05.560
the past listener has known, I've
been talking about him having you know,

881
01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:10.640
he had a serious heart problem and
he's been in the hospital. I believe

882
01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:13.760
he still is. But he actually
did a posting on Facebook the other day

883
01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:17.880
which made me feel great that he's
on the road to recovery. Well,

884
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:20.920
that's good. I don't know if
you've ever worked with Mark, but he's

885
01:12:20.920 --> 01:12:25.720
a great guy. You know what
he is. I have talked to him

886
01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:30.760
many times. He is a love
I really say. He's been so kind

887
01:12:31.279 --> 01:12:38.800
and helpful. He's amazing at what
he does, and that sums up a

888
01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:42.960
lot of relationships with people in Moufon. I really feel like I have met

889
01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:45.720
people that I will be friends with
for the rest of my life. They're

890
01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:48.920
incredible. All right, now,
I'm going to go a little conspiratory al

891
01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:51.560
on you before I with this the
question I'm going to ask him just second

892
01:12:51.600 --> 01:13:00.239
on the message board, but some
people claim that moufon is is a disinformation

893
01:13:00.520 --> 01:13:06.600
or part of it is and corrupt. Now I'm not laughing at that statement,

894
01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:13.640
really, I'm just maybe it's nervous
laugh But now do you hear that?

895
01:13:14.479 --> 01:13:16.960
Oh sure? Oh yeah? You
know. In fact, I'm from

896
01:13:17.039 --> 01:13:23.479
Utah, so I am you know. I'm taking up where Elaine Douglas left

897
01:13:23.479 --> 01:13:29.800
off. So yeah, there's definitely
the rumblings of people that have been unhappy

898
01:13:29.800 --> 01:13:35.560
with Moufon, and you'll always get
the conspiracy and who knows if there are

899
01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:42.920
people inside the organization that are disinformation
agents. It's entirely possible. The thing

900
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:47.640
I'm learning about this field is you
just you never know that's right, but

901
01:13:47.840 --> 01:13:51.560
I do think that mof On as
a whole has gone through a lot of

902
01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:59.840
changes, most all of them are
positive, and so hopefully that will dispel

903
01:13:59.880 --> 01:14:06.319
any of the negative negativity focused on
mufan. Okay, now Ken on the

904
01:14:06.359 --> 01:14:13.000
message board, can you explain or
talk more about any Native American insight?

905
01:14:14.479 --> 01:14:18.199
You know? That is something that
I am really trying hard to look into

906
01:14:19.239 --> 01:14:24.840
with the help of my friend who
is the Native American historian. He was

907
01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:27.720
up at the University of Utah for
a long long time and he's in his

908
01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:34.399
early eighties. He's given me all
of these amazing books about skin walkers and

909
01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:42.399
about their oral traditions on things,
and so I'm reading those and I'm hoping

910
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:46.800
that by doing that and becoming more
familiar with the Native American culture, that

911
01:14:46.920 --> 01:14:55.159
will give me greater understanding. But
then I can also try to forge friendships,

912
01:14:56.039 --> 01:15:00.920
you know, respectful relations where I
can learn things and help them and

913
01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:03.960
just I think there's just so much
to know and we have, you know,

914
01:15:04.680 --> 01:15:10.880
they're in a position where I think
they're pretty closed off. Perhaps this

915
01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:14.399
is what I understand and I think, and I don't blame blame them,

916
01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:19.920
and I think as long as I
can hopefully prove that I'm respectful and I

917
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:25.239
really honestly care and want to learn
as much as I can about their cultures.

918
01:15:25.279 --> 01:15:29.279
It's beautiful. It's fascinating, right, and you hear a lot of

919
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:32.239
times they'll talk about, you know, the star people, and you know

920
01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:38.920
traditions, oral traditions that have come
down for generation after generation. And also

921
01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:43.680
you know in you know, south
of you Arizona, you know, there's

922
01:15:43.720 --> 01:15:48.520
a lot of drawings on Rock's early
drawings that are pretty interesting in the Hopey

923
01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:54.239
area there are, and there are
some in southern Utah as well. So

924
01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:57.720
it's a oh my gosh, it's
like you get down this rabbit hole and

925
01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:02.279
there's so many directions you could go. Being in Utah, the Native American

926
01:16:02.279 --> 01:16:09.760
cultures is incredibly important. Skinwalker Ranch
is actually situated in an area where you

927
01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:15.159
have the Ute tribe and the or
A oil fields are on that Native American

928
01:16:15.279 --> 01:16:20.000
land. There are lots and lots
of sightings up there. So is there

929
01:16:20.039 --> 01:16:25.079
a connection between that. I don't
know, but I would sure like to

930
01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:28.039
find out and I'll keep you posted. Okay, Now, I saw on

931
01:16:28.079 --> 01:16:30.840
the message board you actually answered someone, but they were asking what a skin

932
01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:34.520
walker is, and that is actually
a good question for the listener out there,

933
01:16:34.720 --> 01:16:42.279
so go ahead. So a skin
walker is it's a witch and not

934
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:47.000
necessarily it's not a good thing that
it is this entity that can shape shift.

935
01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:53.880
And typically from my understanding, when
it when a skin walker is around,

936
01:16:53.880 --> 01:17:00.159
it is never it's a bad omen. Bad things happen and they are

937
01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:03.800
you know, just it's very it's
mysterious that, like I said, that's

938
01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:10.199
something I'm learning more about. But
they have been spotted and they have their

939
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:15.800
legends that they have taken children in
the middle of the night, and so

940
01:17:15.960 --> 01:17:17.560
who knows, but I did.
There was a fellow I was just at

941
01:17:17.560 --> 01:17:24.159
the UFO Congress down in Phoenix,
Arizona, and there's an artist who was

942
01:17:24.199 --> 01:17:28.880
there and he I just talked with
him for a while. He's Native American.

943
01:17:29.600 --> 01:17:32.800
He was telling me about an experience
that he had with a skin walker

944
01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:38.840
and he was out late at night. He said that he just felt this

945
01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:44.479
cold wind and this energy rushing to
him, and the thoughts in his head

946
01:17:44.520 --> 01:17:46.960
were, were you know you are
going to die? Are you ready for

947
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:50.840
this? Are you ready to see
me? And this is what you wanted?

948
01:17:50.880 --> 01:17:55.000
And are you going to are you
willing to give up your family?

949
01:17:55.600 --> 01:17:59.079
You know? So all of these
terrifying thoughts came and then he saw this

950
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:05.920
app or and it was clearly it
was the most terrifying, profound experience he

951
01:18:05.960 --> 01:18:10.840
ever had in his life. And
he just said to me, you know,

952
01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:13.800
you really, if you want to
go down that road and you want

953
01:18:13.840 --> 01:18:18.800
to look into things like that,
you better be prepared because this is something

954
01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:25.159
that we have no control over and
is very it is is not a good

955
01:18:25.760 --> 01:18:30.399
positive thing. Okay, someone wanted
to know if peyote plays into the partner

956
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:35.199
skin Warker. I think peyoti might
play a part and lots of things.

957
01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:40.640
Who know, yeah maybos, Yeah
it could. But you know there,

958
01:18:41.079 --> 01:18:45.840
you know, Skinwalker Ranch and the
U went to Basin is a paranormal is

959
01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:50.279
a hot spot. There are all
sorts of things happening there. So you

960
01:18:50.319 --> 01:18:57.920
get the UFOs, you get bigfoot, shape shifters, you name it.

961
01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:01.199
It is happening there. Strange creature. Why. I don't know, but

962
01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:10.920
I think when you start researching things, you realize that oftentimes this phenomena might

963
01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:15.279
go hand in hand. Yep,
that there's talk about that. I read

964
01:19:15.319 --> 01:19:21.159
the book George Knapp and I have
communicated a number of times, and he's

965
01:19:21.239 --> 01:19:24.880
just such a busy guy, you
know, trying to get him on the

966
01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:28.840
show to talk about that, and
I'll even suggested, you know, we

967
01:19:28.880 --> 01:19:31.399
can do a pre record anything to
you know, to get him on.

968
01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:35.239
I really want to get him on
to talk about that. What a fascinating

969
01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:40.520
book that is. And one of
the things that struck me the most.

970
01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:45.520
I don't know why, but it
does is when all the scientists were there

971
01:19:45.079 --> 01:19:49.600
and they had their camera set up
and everything outside, and all of a

972
01:19:49.640 --> 01:19:54.640
sudden they just saw this like it
looked like this hole appeared and then the

973
01:19:54.680 --> 01:19:58.079
sync climbed out of it. You
know what I mean. That that is

974
01:19:58.159 --> 01:20:01.479
like wow, you know what I
mean, all these people witness that,

975
01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:06.920
and you know, maybe I'm naive
to think that it really happened when it

976
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:14.039
may not have happened, but still
the whole thing is fascinating. Another unanswered

977
01:20:14.359 --> 01:20:19.000
so to speak. I think there's
definitely a reason why Bigelow bought that property

978
01:20:19.119 --> 01:20:26.000
and spent a lot of money with
you know, hiring the best scientists and

979
01:20:26.760 --> 01:20:30.680
bodyguard security to go in there and
study stuff. He's not He's a very

980
01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:35.520
smart man. There was a reason. And I have a friend whose name

981
01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:42.079
is Ryan Burns. He lives in
the property that is very very close to

982
01:20:42.239 --> 01:20:49.680
Skinwalker Ranch and has seen very amazing
things. I mean we're talking strange creatures,

983
01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:57.000
objects, you know, portals almost
opening up. And he's also had

984
01:20:57.000 --> 01:21:00.159
an experience and I saw the slides
when he was at move On meeting a

985
01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:06.359
while back, of men, men
in black, men in in suits on

986
01:21:06.600 --> 01:21:14.319
his property with equipment doing something.
It was pretty pretty interesting, pretty intriguing.

987
01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:18.720
My I have a friend, a
person contact up there that will keep

988
01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:23.600
me updated a couple times a month. And there's been a lot of military

989
01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:29.079
activity up there as of late.
And then the UFO activity also seems to

990
01:21:29.119 --> 01:21:34.720
be increasing from the reports I'm getting
up that way. Well, you know

991
01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:39.640
when when Phil when the person on
the message what was asking about the peyote,

992
01:21:39.680 --> 01:21:43.760
he was actually how serious he wasn't
doing it, you know, to

993
01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:48.760
be uh funny or anything like that, because now that's a cactus or something,

994
01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:56.039
you know, But it's been used
for I think along you know,

995
01:21:56.119 --> 01:22:02.359
many many hundreds of years, if
not longer. But I don't really know

996
01:22:02.479 --> 01:22:08.800
much about it, do you you
know? I know that it is very

997
01:22:09.199 --> 01:22:17.560
sacred and it opens up a part
of your subconscious and to many profound experiences.

998
01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:21.600
I have a friend that went down
to South America to meet with the

999
01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:27.680
medicine man and had oh my gosh, and I wish I could remember the

1000
01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:31.000
name hyahuasca. I can't remember the
name. But they went deep into the

1001
01:22:31.119 --> 01:22:38.279
jungle and then took this substance and
we're gravely ill for a couple days,

1002
01:22:38.319 --> 01:22:45.199
just vomiting, but then had these
experiences that were just amazing, and she

1003
01:22:45.319 --> 01:22:54.239
felt that it was allowing her to
transcend different dimensions. Wow. Someone was

1004
01:22:54.279 --> 01:22:58.560
asking more about the portal on the
message board, and you know, that

1005
01:22:59.119 --> 01:23:02.720
was the thing that came up there. I have heard that in the past,

1006
01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:09.159
you know, about different like events
like I'm not sure if it's a

1007
01:23:09.239 --> 01:23:12.760
UFO, but you know a lot
of times it would almost make sense the

1008
01:23:12.760 --> 01:23:17.079
way they appear and disappear, you
know, like who knows the end of

1009
01:23:17.119 --> 01:23:21.960
a wormhole. I'm really going out
there, you know tonight, but I

1010
01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:29.600
all unexplained it is. But if
you you know when that's part of the

1011
01:23:29.640 --> 01:23:33.800
thing that I'm trying to look into
is where are these objects appearing? They

1012
01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:44.039
appear in specific places lots of studies
with the Muffon Project Orange, lots of

1013
01:23:44.239 --> 01:23:47.760
you know, going through the database
back east. They're appearing near bodies of

1014
01:23:47.800 --> 01:23:53.439
water. So are they coming in
and out of these bodies of water they

1015
01:23:54.199 --> 01:24:00.520
who knows, but that the sightings
clusters are pointing to something in that specific

1016
01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:08.239
area, so we will see.
I believe that perhaps maybe something is happening

1017
01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:15.199
with lay lines gravitational anomalies. There's
something that, Yeah, I don't know,

1018
01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:17.399
but I would let you know because
I've got so many puzzles to solve,

1019
01:24:17.680 --> 01:24:23.359
so many riddles to solve, and
well, it really keeps you know,

1020
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:28.399
this whole type of thing. It
really keeps me really interested in the

1021
01:24:28.399 --> 01:24:32.479
subject because it's just you know,
the more you look into it, the

1022
01:24:32.479 --> 01:24:39.159
more questions there are. And I
don't think that we're really going to know

1023
01:24:39.239 --> 01:24:44.560
the answer anytime soon. And if
we do know the answers, it'll only

1024
01:24:44.600 --> 01:24:46.960
be to some of the things.
And for instance, if we know what

1025
01:24:47.479 --> 01:24:53.079
UFOs really are, if they really
are extraterrestrial, which I believe makes more

1026
01:24:53.119 --> 01:25:00.239
sense than most of anything else.
But there are still so many unanswerable things

1027
01:25:00.279 --> 01:25:04.479
that go on besides that, you
know, there are and I think We're

1028
01:25:04.520 --> 01:25:09.520
never going to find out the answers
if we spend, if we waste a

1029
01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:14.840
lot of time deciding whether this you
know, or do UFOs exist? I

1030
01:25:14.840 --> 01:25:16.279
think we ought to just say yes
and move on with it. Like I

1031
01:25:16.359 --> 01:25:23.560
was saying earlier, we have ample
evidence. So we need to be proactive

1032
01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:30.479
and really figure out why, where, how, and quit debating each other

1033
01:25:30.600 --> 01:25:36.239
and work together. This is vital
because if something was happening, it well

1034
01:25:36.319 --> 01:25:44.359
it is, but it needs to
We don't know what any intentions are and

1035
01:25:44.399 --> 01:25:49.199
we need to just maybe think about
a lot of different things and prepare.

1036
01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:54.319
That's right, you know, I
mean, of course, you know you

1037
01:25:54.399 --> 01:26:00.199
hear over and over again if if
they were malevolent, then we would certainly

1038
01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:05.560
know by now we could certainly be
destroyed many times. Well that's what we

1039
01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:10.039
would like to hope. That would
be good. And I mean I I,

1040
01:26:10.279 --> 01:26:13.359
oh, gosh, every day is
a new day for me with that

1041
01:26:13.479 --> 01:26:18.439
regard. Some days I think everything
is happy and we're living in a world

1042
01:26:18.479 --> 01:26:25.880
where we can all communicate and there's
nothing, you know, malevolent going on.

1043
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:30.279
But the bottom line is we just
don't know. That's right. We

1044
01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:35.279
really need to be prepared either way. That's right, And you know there

1045
01:26:36.239 --> 01:26:43.479
I did a pre record that's coming
up with a gentleman in Amsterdam and Dame

1046
01:26:43.560 --> 01:26:47.880
Gerard Arts. And the thing that
we'll be talking about in that show is

1047
01:26:48.119 --> 01:26:55.079
when that does air eventually, is
you know, he thinks that they are

1048
01:26:55.199 --> 01:27:00.079
peace, peace loving and trying to
keep us from destroying ourselves, and that

1049
01:27:00.159 --> 01:27:02.800
does you know, there is a
theme of that. You do hear about

1050
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:08.640
different circumstances, you do. And
I, for me, when I had

1051
01:27:08.720 --> 01:27:15.159
experiences with the objects I saw,
I felt very connected. I felt whatever

1052
01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:20.399
it was was quite benevolent. And
I those are my impressions. Whether that's

1053
01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:26.199
the case, I have no clue, but I you know, even even

1054
01:27:26.319 --> 01:27:32.640
abductees or experiencers at first these events
are incredibly traumatizing, but then as their

1055
01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:38.920
life unfolds and they learn more,
they learn that these beings are really here

1056
01:27:39.039 --> 01:27:45.319
to to help the planet. Right. But you know that's I don't know,

1057
01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:48.600
we just we know so little,
right, yep. You know a

1058
01:27:48.680 --> 01:27:56.159
number of number of things you hear
about kind of dovetail that you know of

1059
01:27:56.479 --> 01:28:02.960
people seeing visions and you know,
I go back to the I want to

1060
01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:08.159
say, Papa New Guinea or I
know it was in Africa of all those

1061
01:28:08.159 --> 01:28:12.720
school children, what they were seeing
and what they were feeling, you know,

1062
01:28:12.840 --> 01:28:15.760
is more feelings than anything else.
It was are you talking about with

1063
01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:23.199
the John Mack? Yes, and
doctor Mack. That was incredible and in

1064
01:28:23.319 --> 01:28:30.359
speaking of what a brilliant man,
very brave researcher. Oh yes, absolutely,

1065
01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:35.760
and too bad he left us early. That was interesting. It was

1066
01:28:35.840 --> 01:28:42.520
sad and he really was. He
just did so much and it was really

1067
01:28:42.680 --> 01:28:46.399
sad. And Bud Hopkins as well, Right right, yeah, interesting,

1068
01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:50.800
let's see so again, if you're
listening live, you can jump over to

1069
01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:56.279
our chat room and pose a question
and I'll give the number out one more

1070
01:28:56.279 --> 01:29:02.079
time if you'd like to call in
six O three seven four three to zero.

1071
01:29:03.199 --> 01:29:08.920
And did have you ever thought?
I know you read books, but

1072
01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:14.239
I was every once in a while
I think too, there's someone like you

1073
01:29:14.279 --> 01:29:19.680
think about ever writing anything. It's
funny because I actually would love to write,

1074
01:29:19.880 --> 01:29:25.279
and I that's another creative outlet for
me. And since I'm not doing

1075
01:29:25.279 --> 01:29:29.920
as much singing, I'm not performing
anymore that I think that would be wonderful.

1076
01:29:30.399 --> 01:29:32.520
And I have you know, I've
written a lot of songs and done

1077
01:29:32.920 --> 01:29:36.560
things like that, but i've had
if. I was talking to Nick Redford

1078
01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:44.399
actually, and he was encouraging me
to to do that and said he would

1079
01:29:44.439 --> 01:29:48.720
help me. And so actually Richard
Dolan and I have had conversations about that

1080
01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:54.119
as well. So I have all
of these great people that are are brilliant

1081
01:29:54.600 --> 01:29:59.520
and will help me do that,
and I feel very lucky. So perhaps

1082
01:29:59.600 --> 01:30:03.119
you'll see something. It might be
a picture book two pages. Yeah,

1083
01:30:03.119 --> 01:30:10.439
you said you were artistic, so
well, I don't know about that.

1084
01:30:10.680 --> 01:30:14.640
I try. I'm actually trying to
do a portrait right now, and that

1085
01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:18.359
is kind of scary. I think
maybe I have a great art for doing

1086
01:30:19.039 --> 01:30:26.680
portraits of alien man babies. I
don't know how that happens. And you

1087
01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:29.039
didn't. It didn't start out that
way, like it? Not really?

1088
01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:33.800
No, Nope. One of the
things up i'd noticed about Nick Redfurn is

1089
01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:40.159
he puts out a ton of books
and I can never understand how people can

1090
01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:44.880
be so prolific in their work like
that, it's amazing, And how to

1091
01:30:44.920 --> 01:30:50.239
come up with a fresh new idea
or story. I've had him on a

1092
01:30:50.239 --> 01:30:54.000
couple of times. I'm sure you're
going to have him on. Hope to

1093
01:30:54.039 --> 01:31:00.560
have him on again. Yeah,
he's a really neat man, and I

1094
01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:02.840
I don't know how he does it
either, because my lord, he has

1095
01:31:03.199 --> 01:31:08.560
done a lot of things. In
fact, he just was kind enough to

1096
01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:11.680
send me his new book and we
will. He is going to be on

1097
01:31:11.720 --> 01:31:16.399
the show in the middle of August, so we'll talk about that. Now.

1098
01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:20.640
If I remember your radio station,
I may have it confused with another

1099
01:31:20.680 --> 01:31:25.600
one. But will they allow you
to do a podcast out of that?

1100
01:31:27.399 --> 01:31:30.399
You know, that is something I
just need to look into. But what

1101
01:31:30.159 --> 01:31:34.039
I'm planning on doing, and I've
got the green light for this, is

1102
01:31:35.880 --> 01:31:42.560
I will be doing videos of my
interviews, so you'll be able to do

1103
01:31:42.600 --> 01:31:45.800
a little screen capture and you can
see both parties communicating. And then I

1104
01:31:46.159 --> 01:31:51.760
have videos as well that I've done
at different events, and I've got a

1105
01:31:51.800 --> 01:31:58.800
great interview with Steve Bassett, Nick
Redfern Lin Key Tie and those will be

1106
01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:02.960
on my website UFO Audit as well. You know, I tried to.

1107
01:32:03.279 --> 01:32:06.239
I actually thought of doing what you're
talking about, like a screen capture type

1108
01:32:06.239 --> 01:32:13.680
thing, and it just with what
we are doing here, it's audio is

1109
01:32:13.800 --> 01:32:16.239
just the real important part of it. So I'm probably not going to do

1110
01:32:16.319 --> 01:32:21.920
that. And I did a note
that I would do a Google hangout with

1111
01:32:23.079 --> 01:32:27.359
people. And I tried a Google
hangout once on the show, and there's

1112
01:32:27.399 --> 01:32:29.600
a little bit of lag. I
don't know if you've ever tried any of

1113
01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:33.520
that, but no, yeah,
so I'd be a little bit cautious.

1114
01:32:35.159 --> 01:32:42.479
So moving ahead, no questions up
on the message board. So what would

1115
01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:46.720
be a good topic to talk about? Well, I think Peggy was talking

1116
01:32:46.760 --> 01:32:55.319
about a good UFO story. Oh
okay, and so I have. I

1117
01:32:55.359 --> 01:32:59.880
had a lady who called in the
other day. She lives in southern Utah.

1118
01:33:00.439 --> 01:33:03.399
She filed a report and she was, you know, just a I

1119
01:33:03.439 --> 01:33:10.760
mean, she's about my age,
just watching, just watching the events outside,

1120
01:33:10.800 --> 01:33:13.960
hanging out, talking to her sister
on the phone, and she notices

1121
01:33:14.039 --> 01:33:18.880
this white pulsing sphere outside of her
house. And then she sees a helicopter

1122
01:33:19.319 --> 01:33:26.600
that is just not moving, and
this helicopter is observing this object as it's

1123
01:33:26.640 --> 01:33:30.840
moving and kind of churning and bubbling, and she was, you know,

1124
01:33:30.880 --> 01:33:33.000
she told her sister, I've got
to get off the phone now. This

1125
01:33:33.079 --> 01:33:40.159
is something really incredible is happening.
And the helicopter observed the object for some

1126
01:33:40.319 --> 01:33:45.720
time and then she said the orb
appeared to almost fold into itself and then

1127
01:33:45.880 --> 01:33:50.640
was just gone. So after talking
with her, I realized, we both

1128
01:33:51.399 --> 01:33:58.640
realized when we started talking about the
orb phenomena. And she lived in Salt

1129
01:33:58.760 --> 01:34:02.960
Lake and told me about two other
instances, one specifically where she was on

1130
01:34:03.039 --> 01:34:11.039
a freeway on ramp and two of
these orange orbs were got a couple hundred

1131
01:34:11.039 --> 01:34:15.560
feet away from her car, and
they basically there were the freeway, traffic

1132
01:34:15.680 --> 01:34:19.640
on the on ramp was stopped and
people were hanging out of the car looking

1133
01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:26.319
at these objects. She said,
the light and the color and the energy

1134
01:34:26.359 --> 01:34:30.720
coming off of these objects was intense
and unlike anything she'd ever seen. And

1135
01:34:30.800 --> 01:34:35.880
she just watched these objects move together, move apart, move around each other.

1136
01:34:36.399 --> 01:34:45.920
It was really quite a phenomenal experience
for her now getting these orbs.

1137
01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:48.600
You know, we've discussed some quite
a bit in the show so far,

1138
01:34:49.239 --> 01:34:55.680
and one of the things when I
was talking with Terry Ray back when he

1139
01:34:55.840 --> 01:35:00.399
was saying, you know that he
watched these orbs have the same sort of

1140
01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:02.479
like I should call it flight pattern
or a pattern, and that's kind of

1141
01:35:02.479 --> 01:35:08.000
what you were seeing earlier. But
someone on the message board wanted to know

1142
01:35:08.279 --> 01:35:13.520
if if those if that siting was
close to you, like was there a

1143
01:35:13.560 --> 01:35:17.840
long distance? And did you have
any fear when you actually saw these things?

1144
01:35:18.399 --> 01:35:23.880
You know, I didn't have fear. I had just an amazing sense

1145
01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:30.119
of it was beautiful. It took
my breath away, and somehow I felt

1146
01:35:30.399 --> 01:35:34.239
very connected to what was going on, and it was almost as if,

1147
01:35:34.840 --> 01:35:40.800
you know, this object was saying, okay, here I am. I

1148
01:35:40.960 --> 01:35:47.239
had another you know, during this
twenty thirteen summer, I had other events,

1149
01:35:47.720 --> 01:35:54.520
one specifically where I was driving home
on the freeway and I looked up

1150
01:35:54.640 --> 01:36:00.000
on the hill close to my home
and I noticed this blue object and I

1151
01:36:00.199 --> 01:36:02.239
just it was so strange. It
was up in the mountains, there were

1152
01:36:02.239 --> 01:36:08.119
no roads, and I thought,
okay, is that a hiker? What

1153
01:36:08.199 --> 01:36:11.479
kind of light is it? It's
somebody with a laser pointer. And so

1154
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:16.920
I kept driving and as I moved
past a mountain, I looked back up

1155
01:36:16.960 --> 01:36:23.039
and the object was now on a
different mountain, and I just thought,

1156
01:36:23.079 --> 01:36:27.840
okay, that is really bizarre.
So I did what every good investigator would

1157
01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:30.520
do. And in fact, I
wasn't a moof on investigator then, but

1158
01:36:30.800 --> 01:36:33.520
you know, I went and got
a taco or a burrito, or something.

1159
01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:40.640
And then I came home and I
was outside just watching a lightning storm

1160
01:36:40.640 --> 01:36:44.520
and trying to take some photographs of
it, thinking that that was strange.

1161
01:36:44.520 --> 01:36:47.159
I'm going to write it off.
And I looked up the mountain straight up

1162
01:36:47.199 --> 01:36:53.279
from me, and I could see
that object and another object, and they

1163
01:36:53.279 --> 01:36:56.239
were right there, and I got
I was. I will say that I

1164
01:36:56.439 --> 01:37:02.239
was at that point very unnerved.
I did take a couple pictures of those

1165
01:37:02.279 --> 01:37:06.800
objects, and I went home and
or I went into my house and I

1166
01:37:06.880 --> 01:37:12.560
called my friend and I just said, I'm afraid. You've got to calm

1167
01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:14.640
me down, talk me off the
ledge. I don't want to go to

1168
01:37:14.640 --> 01:37:18.840
bed tonight. And yeah, that
was. That was an interesting experience.

1169
01:37:18.880 --> 01:37:24.119
And then to top it off,
not to be, you know, reading

1170
01:37:24.119 --> 01:37:28.560
too much into this, but I
didn't sleep well that night. I left

1171
01:37:28.800 --> 01:37:32.439
for work the next day and I
was driving out of my little area and

1172
01:37:33.039 --> 01:37:39.159
a black and marked helicopter flew right
over the top of my car, and

1173
01:37:39.199 --> 01:37:43.840
it scared me to death. It
was I've never had an experience like that.

1174
01:37:44.119 --> 01:37:47.640
So it was it was twenty four
hours of some really intense things and

1175
01:37:47.680 --> 01:37:51.399
whether they related, whether I was
reading too much into things, I don't

1176
01:37:51.479 --> 01:37:57.319
know, but it was definitely that
was a series of odd events. Wow,

1177
01:37:58.079 --> 01:38:00.319
the organizer, this is a question
on the message board. The organizer

1178
01:38:00.399 --> 01:38:05.960
of Project Orange Orange has a theory
on what the orbs are. Do you

1179
01:38:06.119 --> 01:38:13.600
agree or disagree? You know?
I I, oh, my gosh,

1180
01:38:13.680 --> 01:38:18.199
I think that I do agree.
And if you're talking about the you know,

1181
01:38:18.399 --> 01:38:24.399
the organizer. I put the research
project together, and I enlisted the

1182
01:38:24.399 --> 01:38:30.199
help of Terry Ray because I heard
him lecture and I knew about his book,

1183
01:38:30.319 --> 01:38:33.600
and I just knew I needed him
to be a part of this,

1184
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:38.399
and so Terry and I reached out
to Robert Spearing, who had also done

1185
01:38:38.439 --> 01:38:44.640
a lot of research. Terry believes
that these entities are, you know,

1186
01:38:44.760 --> 01:38:50.600
obviously intuitive. Not from here.
I have to say that I am inclined

1187
01:38:50.640 --> 01:38:56.479
to believe that as well about that
these are intelligent. You know from from

1188
01:38:56.520 --> 01:39:02.600
our case reports, these are intelligently
controlled. But we'll just, I guess,

1189
01:39:02.600 --> 01:39:06.960
we will just let the data speak
and we'll try to find out as

1190
01:39:08.039 --> 01:39:14.079
much as we can and educate the
public as we do that. Let's see

1191
01:39:14.119 --> 01:39:17.560
up of the message board. Do
you ever have dreams about UFOs? I

1192
01:39:17.560 --> 01:39:20.960
think that I have lots of dreams
about UFOs and I have. Oh I've

1193
01:39:20.960 --> 01:39:27.239
always had really vivid dreams. It's
that only child thing, but I yeah,

1194
01:39:27.279 --> 01:39:30.880
I have, and I think I
think dreams are so cool. They're

1195
01:39:30.920 --> 01:39:35.199
so fascinating, and lots of times
I'll write down my dreams. I like

1196
01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:40.840
to dream journal, you know.
I until we started talking about this,

1197
01:39:41.319 --> 01:39:46.520
I forgot all about But I've had
like a repeat dream that I look up

1198
01:39:46.760 --> 01:39:55.239
in the sky and see like hundreds
of UFOs and they're like, Wow,

1199
01:39:55.279 --> 01:39:57.680
what are we going to do?
You know, are we being invaded?

1200
01:39:57.720 --> 01:40:00.039
You know that type of dream.
I've had that a few different ways,

1201
01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:05.039
and it's I'm never feeling good at
the time in the dream. No,

1202
01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:12.039
Oh my gosh, it's rather nerve
racking. I really when I had I

1203
01:40:12.079 --> 01:40:15.359
had a brief siting, i should
say. And when I had that,

1204
01:40:15.399 --> 01:40:18.840
I never had any fear. There
was no fear involved. It was just

1205
01:40:18.920 --> 01:40:24.000
like, what the heck? That's
uh, I don't know how to describe

1206
01:40:24.000 --> 01:40:29.159
it. That's good, you know, because I work. I just was

1207
01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:34.279
asked to be on the abduction research
team for Moufon and boy, a majority

1208
01:40:34.319 --> 01:40:42.880
of these people that have had experiences
are very terrified. So if we can

1209
01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:47.800
have, you know, nice experiences. That's great, Yeah, exactly.

1210
01:40:48.119 --> 01:40:55.800
Now, speaking of experiences and experiencers, what do you hear in your state

1211
01:40:55.920 --> 01:41:01.079
about people that are describing abductions or
is that something you don't really hear about?

1212
01:41:01.720 --> 01:41:04.680
You know what, we don't have
a lot of people that are really

1213
01:41:04.720 --> 01:41:11.279
talking openly about or filing reports in
Utah. We have had a few that

1214
01:41:11.840 --> 01:41:15.560
have had experiences. I hope that
changes. I think with abductions, people

1215
01:41:15.600 --> 01:41:24.600
are still so very scared to come
forward and society is not kind to people

1216
01:41:24.640 --> 01:41:29.520
that do. And I hope we
can change that because this is an area

1217
01:41:29.600 --> 01:41:35.560
that needs serious research as well.
I do. Yeah, you know,

1218
01:41:39.039 --> 01:41:43.319
I had a hard time sometimes.
I have a hard time sometimes thinking that

1219
01:41:43.600 --> 01:41:47.680
it's as fast as people are claiming
it is. But I don't know,

1220
01:41:48.760 --> 01:41:53.880
you know, because it seems like
it's tens of thousands, you know,

1221
01:41:54.039 --> 01:41:59.479
constantly. And yeah, it's kind
of like when I was saying earlier about

1222
01:41:59.760 --> 01:42:01.880
the more you look into it,
the more questions you would be having.

1223
01:42:01.880 --> 01:42:08.279
And why would they be generational?
Why would they possibly follow someone if they

1224
01:42:08.319 --> 01:42:11.399
moved to a different state, or
you know, I mean there's just more

1225
01:42:11.399 --> 01:42:15.399
and more and more questions there are. And it's interesting because I actually did

1226
01:42:15.880 --> 01:42:25.279
an abduction investigation up near Skinwalker Ranch
and it was three generations in a family

1227
01:42:26.239 --> 01:42:30.199
that was in the grandmother was in
her nineties and started having experiences when she

1228
01:42:30.520 --> 01:42:39.800
was five years old. That was
fascinating. And with this type of thing,

1229
01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:47.720
you have to listen to the witness
and basically decide whether they're credible rational

1230
01:42:48.399 --> 01:42:53.239
human beings. There's not a lot
of physical evidence to go on, but

1231
01:42:53.920 --> 01:43:00.840
we can just keep studying it and
hopefully learning more about abductees and what the

1232
01:43:00.880 --> 01:43:04.760
patterns are, because there are their
patterns there as well. You know,

1233
01:43:05.479 --> 01:43:11.279
a lot of times you think of
abduction beginning with Betty and Barney Hill nineteen

1234
01:43:11.399 --> 01:43:15.720
sixty one or wherever whenever it was. But when you hear you do hear

1235
01:43:15.880 --> 01:43:18.880
about people saying, yeah, you
know, this person's in their eighties or

1236
01:43:19.359 --> 01:43:26.800
nineties and they think they've been having
this experience, and you know, someone

1237
01:43:26.840 --> 01:43:29.840
looking at the skeptical side would say, oh, yeah, well they just

1238
01:43:30.479 --> 01:43:32.680
passed it down, you know,
the stories down to their you know,

1239
01:43:32.760 --> 01:43:38.000
children or whatever. You know,
I'm sure there's always that that side of

1240
01:43:38.000 --> 01:43:43.399
it. It's another mystery, yeah
it is, but I you know,

1241
01:43:43.439 --> 01:43:47.439
and there are always people too that
and this is very very few people,

1242
01:43:47.479 --> 01:43:51.800
but people that want attention, and
you know, but that doesn't happen very

1243
01:43:51.840 --> 01:43:55.880
often because at the end of the
day, who wants that kind of attention

1244
01:43:57.439 --> 01:44:00.960
right, right exactly? Someone wants
to know. How you decide what information

1245
01:44:01.039 --> 01:44:09.119
is reliable and useful and what is
rubbish or unreliable. It's a lot of

1246
01:44:09.159 --> 01:44:14.000
research, it's a lot of doing. You know, when I get a

1247
01:44:14.039 --> 01:44:17.640
case, I will look to multiple
sources, so I'm checking different databases.

1248
01:44:18.319 --> 01:44:27.520
I'm also looking at the siting and
reaching out to other state directors or field

1249
01:44:27.560 --> 01:44:32.000
investigators that have had similar case reports. So I'm doing that. And then

1250
01:44:32.199 --> 01:44:34.920
you know, you have to look
at the weather data. You have to

1251
01:44:34.960 --> 01:44:40.159
make sure you are checking to see
if it's not a man made object.

1252
01:44:41.119 --> 01:44:44.479
You know, there's so many things
that go into it. And then also

1253
01:44:44.560 --> 01:44:48.880
there is a sense of intuition.
Is this person you know? You can

1254
01:44:49.279 --> 01:44:55.760
you get pretty good at discerning somebody's
character. Is this a hoax? You

1255
01:44:55.800 --> 01:45:00.159
know, it's There's a lot of
things that go into being a good investigat

1256
01:45:00.279 --> 01:45:03.239
and I'm still learning as much as
i can from all of the people that

1257
01:45:03.279 --> 01:45:06.239
have been doing this for much longer
than I have. Yeah, I'm sure

1258
01:45:06.239 --> 01:45:11.439
that's a big part of it is
learning from those who started before you.

1259
01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:16.319
I wouldn't think that there would be
a high amount of hoaxes as far as

1260
01:45:16.800 --> 01:45:23.800
people calling in reports that is that
true or not? I have not seen

1261
01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:29.800
a lot. Yeah, so it's
kind of a time consuming process to file

1262
01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:32.880
a report, right and to go
through all that. So I don't know.

1263
01:45:32.920 --> 01:45:35.479
I mean, I'm sure you do
get people. I haven't and not.

1264
01:45:35.560 --> 01:45:39.960
I have not had a case in
Utah where somebody who has been hoaxing

1265
01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:44.119
something. I'm sure it will come
up. But gosh, if you're that

1266
01:45:44.239 --> 01:45:46.760
bored, I don't know what to
tell you. Get a life. Maybe

1267
01:45:47.039 --> 01:45:51.159
speaking with Peter Davenport, he does, you know, get some call ins.

1268
01:45:51.159 --> 01:45:56.000
But when you're right when it comes
to actually writing a report, who's

1269
01:45:56.039 --> 01:46:00.319
gonna who's going to take the time
and energy? You know, people are

1270
01:46:00.319 --> 01:46:02.680
only going to do something like that
if they can get a lot of hits

1271
01:46:02.720 --> 01:46:06.760
on YouTube by creating, you know, a hoax video third Phades of the

1272
01:46:06.760 --> 01:46:11.439
Moon. I'm going to put that
out there. Oh come on now,

1273
01:46:11.720 --> 01:46:19.359
yeah, say it ain't so yeah, well yeah, uh yeah, there's

1274
01:46:19.479 --> 01:46:24.920
part of that that. But for
the most part, something is not going

1275
01:46:24.920 --> 01:46:28.439
to put the energy into it.
But one of the things that does come

1276
01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:34.720
up a lot is you know,
drones and Chinese lantern Those are the two

1277
01:46:34.800 --> 01:46:40.680
things that we really as people out
there are investigating, they really have to

1278
01:46:40.800 --> 01:46:45.039
discern what a witness is saying when
it comes to these things. You know

1279
01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:49.319
they do. But I will say, since this is a passion of mine,

1280
01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:57.760
that I do believe people are unfortunately
jumping to the conclusion that things are

1281
01:46:57.840 --> 01:47:03.439
Chinese lanterns, and they are missing
really really good cases Chinese lanterns. Obviously,

1282
01:47:03.760 --> 01:47:09.119
you know, follow the wind currents, they don't last very long.

1283
01:47:09.880 --> 01:47:13.279
They you know, there are all
sorts of telltale signs that it's a Chinese

1284
01:47:13.319 --> 01:47:17.199
lantern. Most states have banned the
use of Chinese lanterns because of the fire

1285
01:47:17.279 --> 01:47:25.039
hazards, right, So you know, I think I think that those the

1286
01:47:25.159 --> 01:47:32.000
Chinese lantern theory, hopefully with the
Project Orange will maybe not become as easy

1287
01:47:32.159 --> 01:47:39.520
of an out for people. What
about drones, do you ever get any

1288
01:47:39.560 --> 01:47:44.720
of that through through your state?
You know, I have a new person

1289
01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:48.760
that is training to be a filled
investigator, and he has worked for the

1290
01:47:48.760 --> 01:47:53.680
military and I asked him that very
thing because of the sightings that we've had

1291
01:47:53.720 --> 01:48:00.640
over the Salt Lake Valley, and
he said that it is absolutely will not

1292
01:48:00.800 --> 01:48:04.920
happen of the military. It is
illegal to fly drones here. And I

1293
01:48:05.520 --> 01:48:09.680
asked them, well, you know, we've got these sightings over the valley.

1294
01:48:09.960 --> 01:48:16.119
Would the military be testing anything over
populated areas? Absolutely not, right,

1295
01:48:16.600 --> 01:48:20.880
So you know that there goes that
if it's it's the Yeah, what

1296
01:48:20.960 --> 01:48:28.159
I've seen is not a drone,
and I would think that that's h you

1297
01:48:28.199 --> 01:48:30.840
know, I don't think that's what
a majority of these people are seeing.

1298
01:48:31.680 --> 01:48:35.079
Now. There are you know,
the personal drones, the little you know,

1299
01:48:35.159 --> 01:48:41.279
the little four bladed ones that you
can activate off of your cell phone,

1300
01:48:41.319 --> 01:48:45.479
stuff like that. I'm sure that
there's a lot of things being seen

1301
01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:48.239
out there, but mostly those type
of things are more in populated areas that

1302
01:48:48.359 --> 01:48:53.640
they're being used or there's actually some
film drones. Now. I don't know

1303
01:48:53.680 --> 01:48:59.920
what's legal and illegal to use.
I'm sure it has to do with probably

1304
01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:03.199
size perhaps or where they're being flown
out. I don't know any of the

1305
01:49:03.560 --> 01:49:06.800
regulations. Well I have I have
to tell you a funny story. I

1306
01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:12.640
have a neighbor who has a drone
and it's really really super cool and he

1307
01:49:12.920 --> 01:49:16.960
is a photographer, so he'll use
it for that and he knew I was

1308
01:49:17.000 --> 01:49:23.279
having a little moof on meeting here. Oh oh, and so this is

1309
01:49:23.279 --> 01:49:27.319
the best story ever. But we
were all sitting on the back deck and

1310
01:49:27.439 --> 01:49:31.359
you know, we're quietly telling these
stories and it's intense, and all of

1311
01:49:31.359 --> 01:49:38.159
a sudden, my neighbor flies it's
drone right over the patio and just to

1312
01:49:38.199 --> 01:49:43.600
see the look on people's faces,
it was the funniest, like two minutes

1313
01:49:43.640 --> 01:49:45.600
of my life. And I'm pretty
sure that he had a camera on the

1314
01:49:45.680 --> 01:49:50.640
drone and I'm sure he was over
in his driveway just laughing. It was

1315
01:49:53.960 --> 01:49:57.319
Oh funny. Well it's the little
things in life that make you happy.

1316
01:49:57.520 --> 01:50:02.640
So yeah, yeah, Now going
back to move On. You're the director.

1317
01:50:02.720 --> 01:50:08.760
There's only eight eight or so sightings
a month that are reported. How

1318
01:50:08.800 --> 01:50:14.239
many investigators are in the state we
have right now? We have got five

1319
01:50:14.479 --> 01:50:17.880
investigators, but we still need more. And even though we only have eight

1320
01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:23.399
sightings, there's so much that we
could be doing in the meantime. You

1321
01:50:23.439 --> 01:50:28.640
know, we have to go out
and talk to law enforcement and build relationships

1322
01:50:28.680 --> 01:50:32.560
with them so we can get information. We do have reports of cattle mutilations

1323
01:50:33.279 --> 01:50:39.800
consistently in some of these areas,
like you went to Basin, so all

1324
01:50:39.840 --> 01:50:43.720
sorts of stuff can be done,
and we did have on October second of

1325
01:50:43.800 --> 01:50:48.880
last year, we had a mass
sighting here and in Colorado and that was

1326
01:50:49.079 --> 01:50:53.800
that made national news. That was
a pretty big deal. So that is

1327
01:50:53.840 --> 01:51:00.239
still being investigated, at least here
in Utah. The theory was for a

1328
01:51:00.239 --> 01:51:04.600
while that they were Google loon balloons, but my thoughts on that have been

1329
01:51:04.640 --> 01:51:11.159
there was no transponder data, and
these objects were seen over the NSA,

1330
01:51:11.279 --> 01:51:15.560
which is the most highly restricted airspace
in the world, over populated areas,

1331
01:51:15.560 --> 01:51:20.119
and in the flight corridor for the
Saltlic International Airport, which would be a

1332
01:51:20.239 --> 01:51:27.560
huge safety concern. So lots of
things weren't adding up. The fact that

1333
01:51:27.600 --> 01:51:32.520
these objects were stationary for over an
hour at a time and then moved incredibly

1334
01:51:32.600 --> 01:51:36.600
quickly. It was. It was. It's a great case. So I

1335
01:51:36.640 --> 01:51:44.560
have made a for your request.
I have twice from the FAA received data

1336
01:51:44.800 --> 01:51:49.840
that it is unreadable, so maybe
at some point in time we'll get the

1337
01:51:49.880 --> 01:51:57.079
information. But on my in Utah
that is still a big question mark.

1338
01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:01.319
Now, how many people would you
say witness that approximately? Oh boy,

1339
01:52:01.560 --> 01:52:08.039
you know, I would say in
Utah there were at least one hundred people.

1340
01:52:08.279 --> 01:52:12.880
I mean, we had I started
getting calls from the media that afternoon,

1341
01:52:13.119 --> 01:52:15.880
and Fox thirteen News just said,
hey, you know what's going on.

1342
01:52:16.079 --> 01:52:19.560
Our message boards on Facebook are lighting
up. We're getting phone calls.

1343
01:52:19.920 --> 01:52:25.000
People all over the Salt Lake Valley
are seeing these objects and they want to

1344
01:52:25.039 --> 01:52:29.760
know what they are. And at
that point it was just kind of scrambling

1345
01:52:29.800 --> 01:52:34.159
and trying to figure out if I
could see anything on flight radar and making

1346
01:52:34.199 --> 01:52:39.960
phone calls. It was really great
because the next day they were seen in

1347
01:52:40.039 --> 01:52:48.239
Colorado and over there there were cases
where these objects were seen with jets pursuing

1348
01:52:48.239 --> 01:52:55.119
them. Military jets. That's something
you hear about quite a bit, you

1349
01:52:55.159 --> 01:53:00.760
know. I've known some eyewitnesses that
have had that same story. One up

1350
01:53:00.800 --> 01:53:03.479
in Canada. The whole party,
a group out on his deck, they

1351
01:53:03.560 --> 01:53:09.760
all watch this disc fly by with
two fighter jets on its tail. You

1352
01:53:09.800 --> 01:53:13.399
know, you hear about that a
lot, and it just it's so curious

1353
01:53:13.399 --> 01:53:16.279
to me why you don't hear the
pilots eventually talk about them, you know,

1354
01:53:17.399 --> 01:53:23.239
them actually doing that. I've never
heard except for the case and I

1355
01:53:23.239 --> 01:53:28.720
wreck or I ran back in nineteen
seventy four or whenever that was. You

1356
01:53:28.720 --> 01:53:33.199
don't really hear about the pilots that
we're pursuing. You don't, and I

1357
01:53:33.239 --> 01:53:41.399
think having a couple of friends that
are actually still in the service, it's

1358
01:53:41.439 --> 01:53:45.680
not anything that you talk about because
of all of the fact that it's your

1359
01:53:45.760 --> 01:53:53.960
risking your career. And you do
find commercial pilots are a little bit better

1360
01:53:54.079 --> 01:53:59.560
now at talking about things, but
there's still a big stigma there. Okay,

1361
01:53:59.680 --> 01:54:01.960
Erica, we only have a couple
of minutes, well about a minute,

1362
01:54:02.079 --> 01:54:06.399
just over a minute here. But
one of the questions that was on

1363
01:54:06.439 --> 01:54:12.960
the message board is do you do
you suppose it's possible that the lack of

1364
01:54:13.039 --> 01:54:17.720
reports in your state have anything to
do with the religious beliefs. That thought

1365
01:54:17.760 --> 01:54:21.600
has crossed my mind. That's a
great question. I think that there might

1366
01:54:21.680 --> 01:54:27.359
be some correlation, but I think
it honestly at the end of the day,

1367
01:54:27.399 --> 01:54:30.119
it's just the fact that people don't
know where to go to report it.

1368
01:54:30.319 --> 01:54:33.920
And when I have had case reports, there have been people that have

1369
01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:39.319
been of the predominant fave and so
I don't. I don't know. It's

1370
01:54:39.319 --> 01:54:45.279
a great question, but I'll keep
you posted on that. Yeah, you

1371
01:54:45.279 --> 01:54:51.920
know that. Often often I would
imagine, does have we have something up?

1372
01:54:53.199 --> 01:54:59.920
This is a total different message board
from my from my producer. Come

1373
01:55:00.279 --> 01:55:03.680
up an update from Richard C.
Hoagland on today's released image of Pluto on

1374
01:55:03.840 --> 01:55:10.680
Skywatchers Radio. That's next, right
after the show we have I think that's

1375
01:55:10.680 --> 01:55:13.439
going to wrap it up for us. Erica, do you have a website?

1376
01:55:13.640 --> 01:55:16.159
You know? It is the Ufoaudit
dot com. And then I'm on

1377
01:55:16.199 --> 01:55:20.279
Facebook and you can go to the
UFO Audits. Well, I'm sorry to

1378
01:55:20.279 --> 01:55:24.079
do this but I'm gonna have to
cut to short. This is Martin Willis

1379
01:55:24.479 --> 01:55:27.159
and I want to thank everyone for
listening to the show. I want to

1380
01:55:27.199 --> 01:55:31.359
thank Keith for producing the show,
Peggy for our Facebook page, our guest

1381
01:55:31.399 --> 01:55:35.399
of course, Erica Lukes, and
thank you the listener, the most important

1382
01:55:35.399 --> 01:55:40.079
part of the show. We'll see
you next week right here on podcast UFO

1383
01:55:40.159 --> 01:55:45.000
and the Dark Matter Digital Network.