And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randalschampars. It doesn't involve
aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our heads.
It's so classic Gli Sorcier. Really standing in the clearing, he turned
over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes
and said, we're not alone. Welcome to Podcast UFO for our live show.
We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark Matter
Radio Network. Please remember to visit the website podcastufo dot com for past episodes,
blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live in
our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook
page. Hello everyone, this is Martin willis your host, and we have
a Lejandro Rojas coming up with the news, and just a few tonight we
have Erica Lukes, mofan director, and she's going to be talking about her
new show called UFO Audit, which is coming up first show this Friday,
So I'm going to talk to her about that and much more. Of course,
Well, I want to thank everyone for their support, and if you
have not subscribed to us and you want to hear the second hour, simply
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to do that once and you get a private link that you can put into
iTunes or virtually any media player. And it's really easy to set up with
an iPhone. And speaking of support, I've actually had a life change.
My grueling job, my grueling commute has been changed to consulting work, if
any In other words, I'm unemployed. So my pipe dream is to make
this show my focus. I know that is kind of a pipe dream,
but I know there are a lot of you listeners out there, and if
each of you could port my show for a dollar or more, well,
by golly, I could actually do that, make this my focus. And
I think as soon as possibly next week or the week after, I'm going
to be going to College Park, Maryland and it's going to be a great
live show. I'd love to do more things like that, So help if
you can. But if you can't help, that's okay. We still love
each and every one of you. Well, anyone that signs up for a
ten dollars or more per month, I will happily send you a free T
shirt. And speaking of that, you know they haven't been real popular.
I have to admit I do have a graphic designer working on new designs.
I'm going to post different designs that he gives me and I'll post them up
on Facebook and on the website. And now I'll let you decide. I'll
maybe set up a survey or something. Again, we still love every single
listener out there. I really love doing the show. And now we have
Alejandro Rojas. But Alejandro, I want to talk to you about your last
guest, Ron Righer. Yes, Martin, let's do that. So that
I helped Alejandro on his show, I help him with the news on that
end. So I listened to the show and Ron Rick Gere is a fascinating
man. What a great show that is. And that's at Openminds dot tv
podcast is right on that site that came out last Monday. I suggest to
any of the listeners to the show check that out. It's a great show
with Ron. He was fascinating. Yeah, he's great. And it's kind
of funny because I mean his stories. If you wouldn't know any better,
I don't think you would believe it. But I've known Ron for many years.
I mean ever since I've been in MUFAN. He was a director.
I think in Utah he was on the board. I think now he's some
sort of functional director. So he's always been around and an aerospace engineer and
here and there over the years, I've asked him, talk to him about
different things. You know, a lot of UFO researchers will mention him when
write about things because he's been associated to so many things along as the days
of you know, as the years have gone by, and it's so interesting
how his career has been able to mix with his interest in UFOs and how
he's kind of been part of these really important cases over the years. And
I always you know, he was like probably one of the first people I've
wanted to interview when I started my show, and I just can't believe I
haven't sat down and talked to him about all of this until recently. But
a lot of people don't know about his fascinating background, and he's not the
type to really hype himself. He's around at these conferences and stuff, but
there's a lot of people at these conferences where you strike up conversations with someone
maybe you've seen three years in a row at the UFO Congress and you ask
about him. Oh, yeah, I'm an engineer or sure, I used
to work at NORAD and we used to see some weird stuff. You know,
these amazing people who are interested in this field. Wait a minute,
was he at the North Carolina conference? I can't remember. Most likely,
I can't remember for sure. It was a tall guy. There was a
tall guy that was some type of engineer that I spoke with there, and
I'm wondering if it might see he probably was. He goes to a lot
of these often, and some of you who go to these may recognize him
because he often has his dog with him that helps him, I think,
with seizures. But he's often got a dog with him for those purposes at
these conferences, but he's had a lot of them. Great guy, very
very interesting. Wow awesome. Well, so we're here to talk about news.
So what's going on with the um Yeah, what's going on with UFO
news this week? Well, I just finished my story on these Arctic UFOs.
I'm sure you've seen the story because it's all over the place. In
fact, I'm going to cover a couple of stories that are big in the
media, international media, and this is one of them. And I waited
a little while to write about it because I knew there would be more work
done, and I knew it would be a lot of work for me to
research everything about them so I can write a concise story about what's going on
here. But have you seen these photos? They're really amazing of these alleged
photos of UFOs taken from what appears to be a periscope of navy sub Yes,
wasn't John Greenwald involved in releasing these somehow? Yeah? Exactly. So
what happened that there's this researcher, Alex ms Stretta, and he says that
he received these photos from an anonymous source in Europe. Then he had heard
that a French newspaper, paranormal magazine actually called Top Secret, had published them,
and so he looked at what information they had. It was similar to
what he had, and so he decided to release these pictures on the Black
Vault with information about what he had, so that John Greenwald and others could
help him investigate these photos. His anonymous source told him that these images were
taken from the USS trump Hang funny enough, tripang, I guess is a
word for like a c cucumber or something like this, but it's a real
Navy sub in March of nineteen seventy one when they were near Iceland, in
between Iceland and an island called Janet Mayon up in the Arctic, and that
there was an admiral on board called Dean Reynolds, and there was also an
officer, John Kilka, who is the one who saw what appeared to be
what they called an accident. So, I guess appeared to see this UFO
even though there's several of them crash and I guess having some kind of mchannical
issue and crashing or something like that, or being shot at. It's kind
of vague, so really interesting. He posts these stories with the pictures.
They quickly then went to research what's going on with these images. So they
got ahold of Steve Marillo, who runs the UFO and paranormal meetup in Los
Angeles, And the reason they contacted him is that he was a Navy pilot
and they asked him if he could help them get in contact with these two
gentlemen, Admiral I'm sorry I gave you the wrong name for the admiral too.
His name was Sacket, Dean Reynolds Sacket, So Admiral Sackett and Officer
Kilcap, and they were able to get a hold of him. So Marilla
called Sacket and Miss Stretta was able to get a hold of Officer Kilcap.
They said, yeah, we were on the tray Pang in March of nineteen
seventy one, and we were in the Arctic in that area. And John
Greenwald was able to actually verify that those guys were on the ship separately even
before they contacted him, that the ship was in the area. However,
they said, we did not see anything strange. We don't know what those
images are, and as far as we know, nobody saw anything strange.
So the story was false. And the Miss Stretta had said, it turns
out that, you know, the information I got from my sources is false.
So who knows what's going on here? John Bridley, So this is
a little turn of events here. Well, here's the problem. Even though
the national media and everybody has picked it up, nobody is telling the story
about the investigation that Greenwald and Mistretta and Marillo have done. They've done a
lot of great investigative work here, but that's not being covered unfortunately, and
they've done some great work. In fact, Greenwald went on to do some
research. He thought the objects looked like they might be balloons. He also
found on the website where he he was able to trace where the tripang was
to confirm it was in that area. He said that when it was out
there, they were doing testing and scientific experiments. So he looked up test
balloons. Sure enough, found some pictures of these gigantic balloons that looked very
similar to what is in the images. I went to Wikipedia and looked at
these balloons and I found some similar ones myself. Now, these images are
from the early nineteen hundreds of these weird balloons, I nor Greenwald could find
any from the seventies. But yeah, I think Greenwald's kind of cracked the
case here. I think that's what These are kind of test balloons that they
fire at and they practiced shooting down. Oh, because this one that looks
like it's exploding or something. Yeah, there's a couple images of these things
exploding and sinking into the ocean and that's what makes them so spectacular and wonderful.
They're really cool looking picture, but none of that has been completely confirmed
yet, like you know where they were from or when even if I mean,
it's possible they're completely fabricated, photoshopped hoaxes. But I think Greenwald seems
to be on the right track. If you look at the balloons in the
images compared to what these alleged UFO photos, I think that he's figured it
out. So really cool investigation, great work. Unfortunately, the investigation isn't
being covered, which I think really kind of sucks to put it bluntly,
because you know, they try to portray UFO researchers as he's, like I
wrote it in my sort of wild eyed believers, when actually a lot of
them are really good researchers who are looking for the truth, and there's some
great research that's been done here. In fact, Mestretta is going to talk
more about it on July twenty first, Marillo, you know, holds this
meet up in Los Angeles. Mastretta is going to be there to talk about
it, so people in the LA area who want to meet these guys can
do that. And we've got a link in our story to that meetup.
So yeah, so that's the story. Awesome. Well that's good investigative work
by everyone. Yep, it really is. Okay, So what else is
happening? What else is happening is another story that's making the news. It's
on CNN and everywhere. And this is the Welsh government replying to UFO questions
and Klingon. We talked about this, I think a little bit on my
show, but I have a little more information. I interviewed Nick Pope yesterday.
It'll be on our next UFO report on YouTube about this. But what
happened is this Welsh Assembly minister in the Assembly for Cluid West, he asked
a question and he about UFOs. He said, you know our Cardiff airport,
how many UFOs have been seen? Above? It haves the Welsh Government
work with the Ministry of Defense regarding UFOs as the Welsh Government looked into UFOs
and the response has been to make fun of him and trash this guy.
So, I mean a lot of people have said, oh, that's funny,
that's great, Welsh Government's so cool, especially because Comic CON's going on,
But really it's really condescending and not very cool. Of them. You
know, they're they're obviously not taking him serious at all, so they replied
and clean on, They said, Jean Vidoc loose car, I don't know,
some kind of crazy cling on stuff. But what it means is the
Minister will reply in due course. However, this is a non devolved manner
and we asked, you know, Nick Pope about that. He says,
what he means by a non devolved matter is that they the Ministry of Defense
does not consult the Welsh government. It's kind of above them, and they
don't, you know, go downwards. They don't tell you, hey,
Welsh Government, here's what we're working on. So they're kind of already alluding
to, like Nick Pope says, to passing the buck, which is something
he says he did when he worked for the Ministry of Defense, and that
is common that they're probably going to say, we don't know, ask the
Ministry of Defense, for which, of course, the Ministry of Defense is
answered and talked about that issue often. Unfortunately, one of the Assembly sources,
and anonymous Assembly sources had kind of replied off the record, and he
says the only extraterrestrial life seen near Cardiff recently seems to be Darren Miller.
Perhaps instead of spending time and wasting government resources asking questions about UFO, he
should be fighting for the very real concerns of his constituents. Oh you bloak
you that Chrissy British oh man. But it was because of his constitution he
was asking these questions because they were coming from his constituents. So kind of
frustrating, Nick Pope replied in a tweet. He says, replying to an
assemblyman's question on the UFOs and Klingon is a great way to ridicule the subject.
I did similar things at the MOD. Cauplaw kapla is another Klingon term
for success, and in fact I have him do this. If you want
to see Nick Pope speaking Klingon, you can watch your interview that we'll have
out on Friday. But he essentially says, you know, he called it
spinning dirty tricks out When he was working for the MOD about UFOs, they
would do things like this to make fun of UFOs. However, in the
background they were taking the reports very very seriously, although they were pretending not
to. Something else I put in my story that I think is very interesting
is that in twenty twelve, Huffington Post wrote about a pool that was done
in the UK about UFOs and they found that fifty two percent believe UFO evidence
has been covered up because widespread knowledge of their existence with threatened government stability.
So, I mean, if you look at this Welsh story or even this
Navy story, it was the UK media that picked it up. The UK
media even references our website practically on a weekly basis these days. And these
are some of their bigger papers, like The Mirror, the Daily Express.
Their news papers out there are certainly more tabloid like, but they write about
UFOs much more over there, it seems, especially per capita than we do
over here. So UK people are really into UFOs. So hopefully, I
mean there's a backlash. I just don't think that these politicians should be making
light of real concerns from their citizens. Yeah, it's just, you know,
it's part for the course, it's status quo. And you know,
it's kind of fun that the UK, uh, you know, has so
many reports or so many you know, articles, only because of the fact
that you know, when I speak to people from over there, they say,
well, we never get to see UFOs. It's it's always Claudia Rainy,
not always, but you know a lot, yeah, which is a
good point. I mean, it's difficult to know because you know there are
some organizations out there, but it's difficult because it's not really apples to apples
to tell if they have more reports or not. But we do know in
our own country that the center of your areas do seem to have more sighting
reports, so it's entirely possible, and it could be why they're so interested
in other people's sightings because a lot of the stories they run over there are
US siting. So for instance, when I wrote we talked about this recently
about June having a spike in sightings, they ran with that story out there
and I don't even know if the American media picked it up, but the
UK picked it up like crazy, which was really cool. So they're really
interested in sightings even if they don't happen in the UK, not like the
US where we could really give a damn what happens in other countries. For
the most part. Good point there, So you have one more. We'll
have to make it a little bit short because we're okay a little bit late
here. I'll do it really quick. Speaking of Americans not giving a damn
about what happens in other countries, there's a great UFO story from another country.
This is just a story about some Turkish pilots who recall some UFO sidings,
their commercial airline pilots essentially, who had a couple really cool experiences.
One pilot just said that, you know, he was up and him,
along with four other aircraft or four aircraft in total, saw this extremely bright
light. They couldn't even look at it directly. It was so incredibly bright.
So really neat story. Then, and then another story from anotherlet who
said they saw some multicolor lights that flew around and eventually turned into a white
ball before disappearing. So really cool sidings and funny enough. The Space editor,
I think he writes for MSNBC these days, but he's written for a
lot Space dot com and everything. Jim Oberg reply to my story. He
does that sometimes, and it was kind of funny, he says, And
your reason for thinking the story was significant without providing a daytime or location of
it, was what exactly, especially on an air route passing close to the
Bechnor Cosmodrome. So his point being that you know, in the flight path
is a very popular place where they launch rockets. And that's a great point.
But of course he's being silly about his first question. But the reason
I bring that up because it's a great question, why do we care?
Because they're commercial pilots. And I think you might agree, and certainly our
readers agree that stories from commercial airline pilots are very interesting because these are people
who are flying and up in the air, you know quite a bit.
In fact, Obama's you know, pilot for when he was a candidate,
came out speaking about UFOs fairly recently, and that was a big story.
People just really like to hear from airline pilots. And what was interesting about
Obama's pilot is that he said most pilots believe in UFOs, and these two
pilots say they believe in it as well. So I think that's very interesting.
What do you think? Absolutely, You know, I seem to talk
quite a bit about set showstack, because I did when I was debating him
on UFO's way Back and show number twenty one or twenty two, I can't
remember, you know, I brought that up about you know, these are
people more like trained observers like astronauts and pilots and things like that, and
he said, absolutely not. They're no different than anyone else, and you
know, it makes no difference. I was kind of shocked by that because
I would think anyone, you know, flying a plane would really need to
know what's going on up there and really pay attention. Yeah, it's really
frustrating. I mean it's someone like sess Shawstak will discount pilots even though pilots
are in the air, that's where they're spending their career. The rest of
us don't have a career looking up in the sky. But Shostak will also
say, well, why don't astronomers see UFOs and why aren't they into UFOs?
And they are, Yes, that's why they are. I did a
talk in Roswell about this where it was really astronomers who started the modern day
research into UFOs. So they're mister Shastak. Yeah, there you go.
Well, hey, thanks so much. We ran a little long, but
it was fun. It was good. I really appreciate it. Oh,
I have one more thing to mention. I'm sorry, no problem, but
speaking of astronomers and UFOs, Clyde Tombas in the news a lot because he's
the one who discovered Pluto, and he was one of those astronomers who saw
UFOs and there was a Life magazine story about it in the fifties which was
a huge deal and really rekindled the public's interest in UFOs. But that's an
interesting story that you see out there in the news these days because of everything
going on with Pluto, right, And I hope the listener out there has
checked out the image the images of Pluto. It is really something to see
something like that, you know, showing that some of the mountain ranges and
you know it's an icy planet, but boy what it's really actually great to
be able to see that amazing stuff. It's amazing what mankind can do.
Really, if you think about it, takes four hours for the signal the
speed of light to reach the Earth. Call me a Pollyanna, but I
think humans are pretty cool sometimes. I'm there with you, man, all
right, all right, Well, thanks a lot, and I'll be talking
to you next week, okay, tek you later, all right, So
everyone hanging there. We'll be right back after this quick music break with Erica
Luke's Erica Lukes, how are you? Did you unmuture Mike Erica, Yeah,
oh I think I did. Now that's me. Can you hear me?
I can hear you? Fine, Okay, this only happens on live
radio, by the way, I know, of course. Welcome to the
show. Kat to come in and you know, pull the mic down like
she did last time. So welcome to the show. Thank you. Yes,
and we follow. I don't know if you follow each other on Facebook.
Whatever you do on Facebook. We do. So we've had some nice
little back and forth for a while, and so I was excited to have
you on and talk about who you are, what you do. And we
got some time to fill. So let's talk about how you got interested in
the topic to begin with. You know, it's a I've always been interested
in it and I when I was six years old standing in my school library
and I saw a book with the UFO on the cover, and I picked
it up and it was like this this attraction, and from there on out,
I just read everything I could find. I did a lot of research
into the paranormal phenomena, and I was always I was drawn to it.
I'm a very intuitive person and an artist by trade, and so it just
came naturally to me to want to learn more about something like this. Now,
so you started out that young, are you saying down? Did you
have any siblings that shared your interest or anything? You know, I was
an only child, and clearly maybe that explains a lot. Who knows,
but I you know, I was always creative and imaginative, and I always
had this yearning for for studying this type of thing because I knew there was
something much deeper going on and I felt connected to it. I see.
You know, it's funny, my son's an only child, and I think
that a lot of times. And I know a few others these people seem
to be very creative because you know, you're spending a lot of time with
yourself as you're young, and you know, entertaining yourself, and you know,
there's a certain creative element that seems to fall along with with the only
child. You know, you're not kidding. Just ask my mom that she
would vouch for that. But you know, I think it was great for
me. I mean, I used to put on little plays in my bedroom
and just sing and dance, and I loved that. And I think because
that's the way I processed things that perhaps I was a little bit more open
to intuition and the paranormal and UFOs and things like that. So it was
it's always been fascinating. And I remember picking up Communion when I was in
high school and that just that just sent me reeling. Yeah. You know,
it's funny how many times that same story you're just saying right there,
not high school. But there's so many people that have been on this show
that that book has, you know, really changed the way they think.
And I've never even you know, I have the book sitting on my shelf,
but until just recently, like last Friday, I had no time to
do anything, and now I have all the time in the world. Well,
no, because you're going on a tour. You're going across the country
to come visit me. Okay, all right, sounds like a plan.
Okay, Now, I am going to say that anyone in the chat room,
if you'd like to pose a question for Erica, you can go ahead.
And Eric is actually in there, so be kind to her. And
also if any one would like to call into the show, our number,
as always is six h three nine six seven four three to zero. You
know what I just thought of, I should post that on the website or
somewhere, so I don't have to keep saying it over and over again.
But you know, Erica, we do get occasionally, we get a call
during a show. Not a lot of people are active in the chat room
usually, but don't call. So don't don't hold out for that. You
can say whatever you want to say. So time goes on. You go
through high school. You read that, did you continue like on that path?
I'm sure you had careers and perhaps college or whatever study you did.
How did all that go? You know? I was so I started studying
classical voice when I was sixteen, and I was in a lot of different
bands in Utah and performed did that for a career, so my background was
vocal performance. And then I became a master Pilates instructor and opened a business
and have had a business for fifteen years teaching pilates and certifying plates instructors.
And the whole time I've been researching and reading everything I could get my hands
on about the UFO phenomena, about abductions and the paranormal as well, because
I've had an interesting experience with the paranormal and I lived in a haunted house.
It was very very cool. So I've had lots of interesting experiences around
me and it's been fantastic. Well, when I have to, you know,
I know this is UFO show, but you know, I'm going to
have to ask you about the Hunted House, okay, and why it was
the coolest thing we moved into. I was gosh and my well, I'm
not even going to tell you how old I was. That's just too depressing.
But we moved into a house that was one hundred years old, and
at the time, my husband was working late at night and so I would,
you know, just see things. The toilet lid would be up the
seat, which was odd, and I would notice that, I mean literally
a candle would just fly off the shelf. All of these things started to
happen, and I thought it was a little odd and kept excusing what was
going on around me and rationalizing it. And then one night I was going
to bed, walked through the kitchen and I noticed a man leaning against the
counter and I thought that, okay, it's my husband. Went into bed
and he was in bed asleep, so I immediately woke him up and I
just said, oh, my lord, I've been seeing this. This is
what's been happening, and he said, thank you. I've been not purposely
saying anything and I wanted to see what you had to say because I've been
seeing a man in our house for months. Wow. So it was a
really interesting experience. I think we were both intuitive, but then we would
have you know, I kind of panicked. I thought, oh my lord,
where were we living? And so I called out a group and they
investigated. In fact, they did several investigations and you know, caught the
typical EVPs, sawt apparitions. It was very very cool. Whatever was there
was definitely some sort of I felt like a benevolent force. And I have
to say when I left the house, I was I was very sad.
Well, you know, since we're talking ghosts already, I'm going to just
tell a quick, oh dear, quick ghost stories and that has only come
up I think once in one hundred and fifty nine shows here. But anyway,
my father owned a house in southern Maine and it was a very early
house around early seventeen hundreds, and the house had already been moved once and
that it had a history, a really interesting history that well, not kind
of a sad history, but it was attacked by a bite Native Americans or
Indians, whatever you want to say. And they killed the children, which
was really sad. And they took the wife, the woman away, and
in the middle of the night, she got up, This is a true
story. She got up in the middle of the night and she killed She
found a knife, she stabbed the Indian and the whatever it was with her
shelter or whatever, and escaped and went back to the house. Well that
was a story about that. Well, my father owned this house, and
my sister had an operation and she said, Dad, I saw a little
girl and he says, yeah, I see her all the time, and
all these weird things they'd see. My sister described it as a little girl
in a white dress that looked like old fashioned and she'd see she'd say she'd
see, and then she wouldn't see it, and then she'd see through it,
and you know, on and on. So I didn't really didn't pay
you know, I said, wow, you know, and all that.
Here I am in like high school or something, so I didn't really pay
that much attention to it. Well, the land was sold, A big
mall came in. The house was moved again down the about a half a
mile or so. So I stopped in there one day because it was an
antique shop, and I got to talk to the antique dealer and I finally
got up the courage and I said, has anyone ever talked about this place
being haunted? And he looks at me, he goes, do you mean
the little girl in the white dress? Oh? I mean that's pretty amazing
to me. That is incredible. And so he said, go talk to
the accountants. They've seen her too. So there was accountants inside and I
went in and talked to him and one of them started laughing. He goes,
I don't want to talk about it. Isn't that incredible? You know?
When I the house that I lived in was so active. I mean
I would have and these are really skeptical people come over. They were my
friends, lots of them engineers, so they would you know, yeah,
yeah whatever, and you know, pretty soon they'd have an experience and it
was a little shocking for them. But after, you know, I lived
there for a while, the house was on TV and it was in a
local magazine and I had somebody facebook me actually and said, oh did you
live such and such an address? Because I went I lived next door to
that house. Back when I was ten years old and my girlfriend and I
were down in the basement and we had an experience that scared us so so
much that we ran to our bishop and the bishop said to never talk about
it again. And here we are. Wow. You know, I know
the listener out there comes to listen to the show for UFOs, So you
have to forgive me. But you know, the thing that comes up occasionally
as people talk, you know, where there's ghosts, there's UFOs, there's
Bigfoot, there's you know, kryptoids, there's all kinds of weird things going
on at once. You know, I don't know if any of that's true
or not, if there's any type of relation, but there is some type
of answer for what's happening. And I think, you know, it's an
elusive as UFOs in general. But also you know, I don't know if
they'll be figured out, same thing as UFOs. You know, I hope
they will, but I don't know if they actually will or not. You
know, I think that for me, the more I learn about this subject,
the more I probably lean towards saying that these this phenomena is, you
know, the paranormal ghosts. This is this could be connected with the UFO
phenomena. When you're looking at abductions, many people that have had abduction experiences
will see the orbs by their bed, and you know, so we just
the bottom line is, we don't know. It's unexplained and until we're willing
to really put effort into it in serious research and quit debating whether they're here
or not. I think there's enough evidence to say they are. So now
what are we going to do about it? How are we going to research
this phenomena and work together? Right? Right? So, Erica, you
are now the director of Muffon of Utah. I am state director for Utah.
Move on, and I love it. There's so much going on in
this state. It's just been fun. You know. I can understand a
lot of times we talk about there's more sightings and where there's clearer skies,
I don't know. I think that definitely plays into it. When you think
of places like England, which we spoke about earlier in the news. How
you know it's cloudy there a lot, it's rainy there a lot. But
in states like California, Arizona, and Utah, I'm sure Nevada there's a
lot of sunshine and which means clear skies and probably more sightings, right,
And I think that we do have a lot of sightings in Utah. Now
my job is as state director is to encourage people to report them. Yeah,
because wow, you know we have a skin with this is skinwalk or
ranch territory right now. Speaking of that, you know, we've had a
couple of guests on recently where two weeks in a row, So I won't
belabor it too much, but where we talk about the amount of UFO sightings
compared to the actual reports. And I'm sure you see exactly that, right,
yes, exactly. And I don't know, you know, we can't
fill out reports for people, you know, that's just they have to do
it themselves. And you know, there's got to be a lot of psychology
that goes along with the reason why people won't do that. I think there
is, and I think you know some of it is. Up until now,
it's been really really hard. Where do you go to report stuff?
I know when I had my sightings in Utaw, the first thing I did
was try to contact the FAA, and I learned that lesson really quickly.
Yeah, but when you go to the FA's website. At the time when
I went there, they referred you to Bigelow Aerospace and then to Newfork and
so, and the number for Bigelow was out of service. And in New
Fork I paid Peter Davenport was fantastic, and but there was nobody here in
Utah really actively researching what was going on. So I hope that I can
encourage people not only here but all over to take take the time go to
moufon file a report because this is this is vital to our research. Okay,
so let's let's talk a little bit about research. Are you active in
actually researching cases or you know, being the director is at a different type
of role. You know, I do both. It's you know, he
It's just it's challenging because I have right now, I'm building up a chapter
that was basically defunct and so I've stepped in and we had a really small
number of members and I'm rebuilding that. And then I'll get cases and and
try to research them and and run a business and have a family. But
then do I do a lot of work from moof on headquarters as well.
But it's a work in progress. Wow, Okay, So I've just been
sort of corrected on the chat room. We have a listener in the chat
room from South England, and I must be like, in the middle of
the night, there isn't it. He calls himself. I love Martin.
I love that guy anyway, So he says it's clear most of the time
there, So I take that back. I stand corrected, and so I
would be interested to hear. Like earlier on in the newscast, we were
talking about how there are so many stories about UFOs in the UK press,
so it would be interesting to actually find out exactly why and what the general
thoughts were there. So maybe we should go over there. You should go
over there on your tour. I should yeah, since I'm unemployed, I'll
go anywhere. Anywhere the wind blows or the UFO is below any you know
float, I will go. Yeah. So it's one forty in the morning.
Thanks for joining us over there and listening live. And speaking of that,
if you are listening live, you can jump in the chat room that's
that podcast UFO dot com and ask our guests tonight a question again the phone
number six oh three nine six seven four to oh three zero, And I
have to say that A couple of times I've missed calls because a little behind
the scenes here, you know, I've got three different computers set up and
the calls come in on one that's to my heart right, and sometimes I
miss a call, and if I do, I apologize. So Eric,
if you happen to see one pop up and I don't get it, stop
what you're saying and say something if you would. Okay, yeah, so
you do actually some of the investigating yourself. But a busy life. Most
people have busy lives that are involved in mofon. We do, and I
think an important thing to remember is that this is a volunteer organization. When
I first joined Moufon, I was absolutely shocked at the amount of money that
people spend from their own personal funds, the time commitments, and the patients
and the perseverance that they put into researching this. Most of them never get
any attention for their great contributions, and it's it's something that needs to change,
and I really hope people realize that we need we need volunteers, we
need support, we need donations to help us get really great equipment to research
this move on. I have loved my experience in MoveOn and how many years
I've been there for two years? Oh, two years and you're already the
director. Wow. Well you know I'm a quick mover. Yeah. Yeah.
So just a few minutes ago you mentioned something about a sighting you had,
so can you tell us about that? Yes, it was twenty thirteen.
I live in an area of Salt Lake, and I have an amazing
view, and so I would sit down on my deck and have a barbecue,
have the friends over, and I would get you know, I'd just
see the beautiful sunsets. I could tell what aircraft was coming in and all
of that the normal activity. And I'd noticed one night as I was watching
the sunset, I'd noticed this bright orange sphere and I thought, okay,
that's very odd. The light was different than it would be if it were
a plane. It was. It was amazing, and I just I watched
it for quite some time, grab my binoculars. I had some friends over,
and then I noticed that there was a big object, and then it
appeared that another one dropped out of a smaller object. The object went around
in a circle around the bigger object, and I just sat there like alrighty
really wow, And to me you know, we were just in shock.
But you know then as I looked through the binoculars, there were no discerning
I mean, it was a solid light. I couldn't see any landing lights,
and it was pretty shocking. I began to after that. I began
to set up my video equipment every night, and almost like clockwork, these
objects would appear. And sometimes they would appear from the base of a mountain
and move up and one you know this, this object would move up and
just just hover and then it would go away. And then another one would
rise up at the same location and hover and then follow the same flight path,
and it did it a third time. And you watch this and you
just think, oh, my lord, am I the only person in the
world that's seeing this. So that's what set me in motion, and it
set me on the path of reaching out to Newfork, talking to moufon,
realizing that we need to have some serious investigation here in Utah. Now,
do you still live in the same place you did in twenty thirteen? I
do? And are these things still going on? Is it still happening?
They are? And I wish that I had as much time as I did
back then to sit out on the porch they are. We're still getting reports.
Many reports are over the Kennicott Copper Minds, which I find interesting,
and the Ochra Mountains, so that the same places that I observe these objects.
I'm in the process of doing a research project with Moufon called Project Orange,
and we are specifically researching the Orange orb phenomena. Is that with Bob
Davis? Is that the right person? It's with Robert Sparring and Terry Ray.
Terry Ray, That's who I was thinking of. Yeah, you know,
it's interesting that you just mentioned the copper, the copper quarries or whatever
it is that you just said, because I'm trying to remember. Is it
Brown Mountain? Yeah, Brown Mountain lights the same thing. That's a real
hotspot and there's many, many, many sightings over you know, in the
Brown Mountain area, and also it has a high content of copper and right
in that valley right there, And I'm wondering, you know, I hear
you talking about this. There seems to be a link, because I think
that's the third time I've heard something about that. Now it's very, very
possible that this could be some type of natural phenomenon that happens because of copper
and say, you know, it's kind of like how you you make a
battery, you know, I mean you get different elements, you know what.
I'm going way out of my field here and I'm probably going to say
something totally wrong. But anyway, it's a possibility that something like that has
a natural element to it. I agree with that, and there are people
you know, then of course that's something that we have to rule out when
we're investigating. But the thing that is becoming apparent is that these objects are
moving with intelligence, and they're in some cases they're responding to people and a
person's awareness of the object. So I think that there might be a little
bit more going on, but that's part of the research project, you know
process. How do you definitively say it is not that? So now we
move on to this, right, well, that would you know, when
something has an element like that that can't be explained, then that's you know,
it moves further and for they're away from a natural course, of course
it does. Any updates on the July fourth part of Project orange on that's
on the message board. Oh and I love that. Thank you for asking
that, So I right, now Robert Spearing is going through all of the
July fourth sidings reports. He's been amazing and he's almost got all of the
states done with the help of my assistant state director, and he is He's
had to put in weather data, really weed out the good cases and cases
that are not cases that would be Chinese lanterns. I hate to even say
that, but so we're gaining lots of headway there, and then we have
to get into the real nuts and bolts of the study and start identifying how
the objects are behaving. Is there a specific time of day, where are
the sidings clusters? And my one of my tasks is to have a map
where I can layer you know, the minds mineral content, rare earth content
I would like to do, you know, the military installations, the aeronautical
charts, bodies of water, uh you know there. We've had lots of
reports of these objects over radio towers, so you could go anywhere with this,
and and I think we definitely need to to start doing some some cool
stuff with maps and figuring out why why these objects are attracted to specific areas.
Now, are there other a lot of other sightings of different you know,
well, I want to say crafts or do you hear about the triangle
sightings out there? We do and they there, you know, we get
a few of those. Honestly eighty percent of the case reports. Are the
orbs really that high? Yeah, yep, amazing and on a regular basis
sake, you know, we just as happenstance is. We had someone from
mouf On last week. I'm not doing this on purpose, it just happened
like that, and I just want to know he was saying that. I
believe he said they get about sixteen to thirty reports a month in that state,
which is pretty high for you know, because it's a small state.
Do you know approximately how many reports roll in per month? Oh boy,
you know, I am very sad to say that it's between eight and ten.
Uh huh, Well again, you know, I mean statistically, if
you look at it that way, there's probably a heck of a lot of
them happening and only eight or ten roll in. You know, that's one
of the things. Just it's raising public awareness and letting people know that they're
as a place to file a report. And a really cool thing is that
Moufon has been working very hard to revamp the CMS and the way people can
input reports. I think that changing that up and making it more accessible will
be helpful and we'll see our numbers increase with reports. You know. I
think the average person today, with all the information coming at them and every
which way, the average person has a shorter attention span than ever, you
know, So yeah, you'd have to anything you're doing today, you have
to keep that in mind, and you know, make things as simple as
possible. You know. It's kind of sad, isn't it. Technology is
dumbing us down? You know, I really, I really think that is
the case. It's too bad because now we're so you know, fixed to
our iPhones and we're always looking down and we never pay attention to our surroundings.
That's right. I sat on a lot of really really profound, amazing
things, that's right. Yeah, we're this is way way off topic.
But last year I took a couple of days off and I couldn't use my
phone or computer, and I was jonesing for it. I was like crawling
the walls for the first day, and then the second day I never wanted
to go back to them again. You know. It's like a pacifier,
I think, Yeah, it does something to you chemically to check your email.
There was some type of report about that. How it's almost like some
type of addiction on how we need to keep checking our email or keep being
in touch, you know, when the world is going around right there and
we were glued to it. We have a question up on the message board.
Do you have any suggestions on equipment for the amateur observer watcher, camera,
lens, computer, et cetera. You know, that's another great question,
and we need more people like you, because we need people that are
out there doing it with good equipment. Anything with that, if you can
get it at night vision, anything with the night vision is fantastic. I
have a pair of night vision binoculars night Jaguar. I just love that name
that I am using right now. Those are great. You have to make
sure you don't look at the city lights with them. I learned that one
the hard way, but that's wonderful. It is incredibly difficult to take photos
of a moving object at night, and so I have been working with our
photo analyst here trying to hone in on what I need to do to make
that happen a little bit better. And so I will keep you guys posted
on that as we learn more stuff than Wilburt Allen has taken some amazing videos
and photo I'm hoping next week I can talk with him and just pick his
brain about good equipment. Yeah, that's it. You know, this is
the first time this has ever happened to be. I live on top of
a mountain in Maine, and I don't know if the listener can hear it,
but there's coyotes howling in the background. I've never heard that this first
time. It must be the government because I'm talking about UFOs now exactly.
Yeah. I'm actually way too relaxed tonight. So you're going to have to
do the rest of the show. Oh no, it could be really frightening
for you, I'm telling you. So. Speaking of that, we have
only a few more minutes. We do take a quick break. It's just
a little like five second break at the top of the hour. But let's
talk about your show that is starting this Friday. I am so excited.
It's called UFO Audit on KGRA Radio. I will be interviewing some of the
top researchers in the field, like you, and also my goal and what
I'm going to be doing is honoring a member of the community. And this
this Friday, I am going to be talking about James Clarkson, who is
who's an amazing investigator. He's been with move On for a long long time.
He is the state director up in Washington State, and he's written a
couple of books, one specifically on June Crane. So it'll be fun to
honor and talk about people that have made a great contribution in the field.
Wow, and do you have I know what it's like, of course to
run a show, and you know, we could guess it's thick and thin.
But usually people I've noticed in this field because I I used to do
a podcast with comedians and which was a lot of fun. I got to
say, but you know, booking a comedian is not easy, especially if
they're a headliner or a name. So but are you finding that you have
guests lined up ahead of time? You know, I have been really lucky.
I I've been working hard, and I think because of the work I've
done for moof On, people have a good idea of who I am.
So I have Peter Robbins, Denise Stoner, Paula Harris, Richard Dolan and
so I think it'll be great. You know, I've got all of these
wonderful people, and there are are people that I've developed relationships with and have
a lot of respect for. There are many other people that I've found as
well that are witnesses experiencers, and these people need to have a platform to
tell their story as well. Now, tell us what station you're on?
K How does that? What's that station you're on? It's kg R A
radio. Oh that's right, k g R A. I think I was.
I may have been on that for a short time, or I might
be confusing with it now. I was on one for a very short time,
and I can't remember what the heck happened. But I'm sure you'll have
a good run. Well, we'll have to get you on there. Well,
just to back up a little bit, I heard you. I believe
you said that I was a researcher. I am not a researcher, just
to let you know, but I just have I guess I could be called
an armchair researcher, but I just am into the topic. I enjoy the
topic. I enjoy speaking to intelligent and interesting people and hearing everybody's thoughts on
what could possibly be going on. That's what really keeps me glued to it
and gets me excited to just hear different perspectives and you know, it'll be
interesting to I would like for you to I'll just throw this at you if
you'd like to just bring up the topic with Richard Dolan when he's on about
where he stands now with the alien slides from May fifth. I'd like to
know how he feels after the whole thing kind of crumbled, some people saying
it's not crumbled. But so we can talk a little bit more about that
in the second half. We just have a couple of minutes. Graz left
here and I thought I saw oh, I thought I had a question up
there, but it was actually a compliment to you. So which is I
know, Phil, thank you, you really made my night. That makes
me very happy. Well, I was telling everyone in the message room to
be kind because I'll just leave it at that. Well, they're being very
kind, and I appreciate the support and it's nice to have good feedback.
And if anyone would like to call in, we'll be taking a break here
in a second. And it's a six o three nine six seven four oh
three oh and so your show. How how did that come about? I
since I have a background in music and I've done, you know, all
of this performing, I've done radio voiceovers, recorded lots of CDs. To
me, it's a very fun natural thing. And when I started to work
for moof on Headquarters, I was doing some video things for them, and
I have guests hosted the moof On radio show, which I really love to
do. I'm like you, I love to talk to people and connect and
to allow people to share their stories. And so it just one thing led
to another and then Race Hobbs was fantastic and we decided to do the show
and here and here we are. Wow, well you do. I do
have to say you are. You're very relaxing to talk to. You have
a very nice voice, and uh so that's why I feel so relaxed,
thank you. Besides being unemployed. Yeah, both of that. I'm not
going to harp on that too much. Well, we're ready to take a
little quick music break. Don't go anywhere, all right, We're back with
Erica LUs and again if you want to call in six o three nine six
seven four oh three to zero. And so Erica, I can't remember what
I said I was going to ask you more about in the second part of
the show. Oh lord, I don't even know if I should remind you,
but it might be it might be Roswell the slides. Oh yes,
yeah, yeah, you probably shouldn't. So I had made kind of a
vow on the show because what I did is I had right after that,
I had a show just about the slides only, and then I said,
Okay, I'm making a promise to you that I won't keep talking about this.
But you and I had a brief conversation during our soundcheck today and you
said that you speak with himI all the time. You also speak with Kurt
Collins, so you're speaking to these people on both sides of the fence.
Now. Because of that, I I'm really scared to ask this question,
but I'm thinking I'm going to ask it anyway. What do you think,
Oh, dear, I think that I'm kind of yeah, I it is.
It's amazing because I don't know at the end of the day what will
happen. I think for me, being in the role of the person that
interviewed Heimie at such a volatile time was fascinating because I had to do a
lot of research. I talked to. You know, I was fortunate enough
to have a friend that was one of the foremost Native American historians in the
world, and so I could talk with him about the burial practices of Native
Americans. And then, you know, I mean, I talked to so
many different people, and I did talk to Heimie and everyone involved with with
the May fifth presentation. You know, when I talked to Kurt, and
I knew if I was going to do a good interview, I had to
have both sides of the story because you know, like we all know,
the truth is somewhere in the middle. I do feel that Heimi did not
get involved with this to deceive anybody. I believe that Tom and Don approached
him with something that they were genuinely excited about, and the ball got rolling,
and that's what happened. And there was I will say that I watched.
I kind of sat back and watched. Before the presentation, there was
a very intense social media campaign that was taking place, and a lot of
it was, in my opinion, perhaps maybe a little bit over zealous and
unjustified. Not it was you know what, you know what I mean,
I was following that too, and I think that I think that even the
people on that side would agree with you, because there was a lot of
talk, like, for instance, Kurt and I had a discussion. You
know that it did get a little harsh, a little harsher, and it
needed to. But I think people were really pissed off. They were they
were angry that there wasn't real thorough research by a lot of people that would
really know what was going on. Or for instance, you know this whole
thing about the plaquard not being able to be be deciphered, you know that
that type of thing. Anyway, here I am, I'm going back on
my word, I help the the word forgive me because we're talking about it.
It's so good though, I mean, this whole thing, the whole
debacle, there's so many lessons to learn, and I think there's still a
lot of information that hasn't been brought forth to me. When I've talked to
the people that were involved with the May fifth presentation, they feel that they
did do a lot of research. From what I saw they did as well,
and I think somewhere along the line it got no I don't know if
maybe the fact that there were so many problems with the broadcast. It wasn't
broadcast in English, and so there was something that was definitely lost in translation.
There it was, but I think that at some point in time there
was so much momentum going that it wouldn't have mattered how much research was presented
that was credible, because somebody was going to go down right. Well,
okay, so one of my listeners reminded me to stop talking about it,
but it is it is. I do want to say this, and closing
about the subject is that I think it was George Knapp. I'm pretty sure
as the one who said that upology took care of itself and it really that
it really is, you know. I mean, there were people that really
really went hard to work on this, and you know, I think that
was an honorable thing for them to do. Yes, there was some bashing,
but still there was some peopleeople that did some honest to goodness work to
try to figure out what this thing was. And you know, I have
to tell you right off the bat, the very first instant I saw that,
I thought it was a mummy, you know, I mean, it
just and I think there was there's got to be a lot of people that
felt the same way. And I've done a lot of museum work, and
right away I started looking at other elements, and you know, right away,
I just I thought it was something in a museum. There's not going
to be something encapsulated in something with the adjustable shelves and glass, you know,
like a museum showcase. And anyway, all right, I'm done.
I'm done. And how about those cubs? I know? Yeah, yeah,
the subject to baseball? Yeah yeah. How's the weather? Is it
good? Well? Yes? So? But anyway, have you known getting
back to just a little bit around the edge of that, have you known
himI for a long time. I first actually got involved with himI, and
this is kind of a funny story. I was contacted by Muffon's executive director
and Jimi had said, hey, I found this great video of these orbs
over Salt Lake, and I wanted to do an interview with your state director
and see what she knows about the topic. And the video that the executive
director sent me was one of mine, oh, that I had posted on
YouTube. I mean, it was just it was just kind of funny the
way it worked out. But so I worked with Heimi and he got me
in touch with some people here in Utah, and then did a few segments
with regards to the sightings that we had had here, which was, you
know, ctits that's great, that's helpful to me. I know what I
filmed, I know what I saw and what other people have seen, and
so that was I really appreciated him for doing that. Right now. I
tried to get him on oh, I don't know, maybe a year or
so ago, because I was really fascinated in some of the Mexico sightings that
happened, you know, like for instance, during the solar eclipse. You
know that that some people are saying it's venus, but I don't know what
it was, but it was. They were seen all over the place and
really interesting. And I did try to get him on the show, and
I had a connection at one time with him, but it just never went
anywhere. You know, he's a fascinating man, but I don't I don't
know, without me getting back into the slides, I'm just going to move
on to another subject. Well I think you know it, just without you
know, talking about the slides, I will say just with regards to HAIMI,
you know, I my experiences with him have been positive and I know
several people that have grown up in Mexico and they remember him as a child
being on the air and talking about this subject, and so that's that's always
a great thing. Anything that can build awareness and make the UFO phenomena something
that is more acceptable for people to talk about. To me, that is
a very important part of getting the mainstream scientific community to research this. I
do agree. And I've seen many times another side of that, when someone
is involved and then somewhere along the line there's a turn taken, or perhaps
a story is revealed that one of their main things they've been researching for years
ends up, you know, not being so or debunked, or another explanation
is given, and they stay hard fast. I've seen this happen a number
of times in and I don't think you know, I'd be really really shocked
if if he changed his tack on this whole situation. Right, Yeah,
I know you're you're being diplomatic, and I've already been told to stop talking
about it on the chat room by someone leave you alone, so and I
will, so we'll move on. Are there other people that you talk with
regularly, like in the field, you know, I talk with Robert Pewell
from from Moufon, who's the chief ahead of the Scientific Review Board. I
talked with Jan Harzan, our executive director, several times a week, and
he's a really fantastic man with amazing experience. I talked to Ben Moss,
who is a great friend of mine. He was on Hanger one. Gosh
and Ron Riguer I saw Jim quite a bit. I know you were mentioning
him. He was awesome. Also Ben Moss, I met him in Phoenix
last year and really liked him, and he is the one who really inspired
me to make sure that I was going to go to Ray Stanford's house,
which I plan on doing possibly even next week. I'm going to try to
go down there and do a live show from Ray's house down in Maryland.
So I hope that kim Me posted that is fantastic. Ben has worked so
hard on MA and forging a relationship with Ray that that's really really neat.
Yeah, so I did meet him, And anyway, let's see, so
you speak to all those people. Now, you mentioned just a minute ago
that one of them was on this Scientific Review Board. Can you tell us
what that is exactly? So the movef on has the Abduction Research Team.
We have the Scientific Review Board, and we have you know, Robert Powell
as the head of the Scientific Review Board, and so he and his team
and there are people on the Review Board from all over the world. Really
that the information coming in and they analyze cases, Robert specifically to find it,
to look at the top cases. And then they you know, they're
working with us with the Project Orange and the research that we're doing. They've
written. In fact, if you go to the mof on website, you'll
see different papers that have been written by the Scientific Review Board. They're amazing
individuals and it's really the foundation of MOFON. Speaking of that, I mentioned
a number of different shows here about Mark D'Antonio. He's the move On video
photo analyst. Great guy. I consider him a friend. Recently, as
the past listener has known, I've been talking about him having you know,
he had a serious heart problem and he's been in the hospital. I believe
he still is. But he actually did a posting on Facebook the other day
which made me feel great that he's on the road to recovery. Well,
that's good. I don't know if you've ever worked with Mark, but he's
a great guy. You know what he is. I have talked to him
many times. He is a love I really say. He's been so kind
and helpful. He's amazing at what he does, and that sums up a
lot of relationships with people in Moufon. I really feel like I have met
people that I will be friends with for the rest of my life. They're
incredible. All right, now, I'm going to go a little conspiratory al
on you before I with this the question I'm going to ask him just second
on the message board, but some people claim that moufon is is a disinformation
or part of it is and corrupt. Now I'm not laughing at that statement,
really, I'm just maybe it's nervous laugh But now do you hear that?
Oh sure? Oh yeah? You know. In fact, I'm from
Utah, so I am you know. I'm taking up where Elaine Douglas left
off. So yeah, there's definitely the rumblings of people that have been unhappy
with Moufon, and you'll always get the conspiracy and who knows if there are
people inside the organization that are disinformation agents. It's entirely possible. The thing
I'm learning about this field is you just you never know that's right, but
I do think that mof On as a whole has gone through a lot of
changes, most all of them are positive, and so hopefully that will dispel
any of the negative negativity focused on mufan. Okay, now Ken on the
message board, can you explain or talk more about any Native American insight?
You know? That is something that I am really trying hard to look into
with the help of my friend who is the Native American historian. He was
up at the University of Utah for a long long time and he's in his
early eighties. He's given me all of these amazing books about skin walkers and
about their oral traditions on things, and so I'm reading those and I'm hoping
that by doing that and becoming more familiar with the Native American culture, that
will give me greater understanding. But then I can also try to forge friendships,
you know, respectful relations where I can learn things and help them and
just I think there's just so much to know and we have, you know,
they're in a position where I think they're pretty closed off. Perhaps this
is what I understand and I think, and I don't blame blame them,
and I think as long as I can hopefully prove that I'm respectful and I
really honestly care and want to learn as much as I can about their cultures.
It's beautiful. It's fascinating, right, and you hear a lot of
times they'll talk about, you know, the star people, and you know
traditions, oral traditions that have come down for generation after generation. And also
you know in you know, south of you Arizona, you know, there's
a lot of drawings on Rock's early drawings that are pretty interesting in the Hopey
area there are, and there are some in southern Utah as well. So
it's a oh my gosh, it's like you get down this rabbit hole and
there's so many directions you could go. Being in Utah, the Native American
cultures is incredibly important. Skinwalker Ranch is actually situated in an area where you
have the Ute tribe and the or A oil fields are on that Native American
land. There are lots and lots of sightings up there. So is there
a connection between that. I don't know, but I would sure like to
find out and I'll keep you posted. Okay, Now, I saw on
the message board you actually answered someone, but they were asking what a skin
walker is, and that is actually a good question for the listener out there,
so go ahead. So a skin walker is it's a witch and not
necessarily it's not a good thing that it is this entity that can shape shift.
And typically from my understanding, when it when a skin walker is around,
it is never it's a bad omen. Bad things happen and they are
you know, just it's very it's mysterious that, like I said, that's
something I'm learning more about. But they have been spotted and they have their
legends that they have taken children in the middle of the night, and so
who knows, but I did. There was a fellow I was just at
the UFO Congress down in Phoenix, Arizona, and there's an artist who was
there and he I just talked with him for a while. He's Native American.
He was telling me about an experience that he had with a skin walker
and he was out late at night. He said that he just felt this
cold wind and this energy rushing to him, and the thoughts in his head
were, were you know you are going to die? Are you ready for
this? Are you ready to see me? And this is what you wanted?
And are you going to are you willing to give up your family?
You know? So all of these terrifying thoughts came and then he saw this
app or and it was clearly it was the most terrifying, profound experience he
ever had in his life. And he just said to me, you know,
you really, if you want to go down that road and you want
to look into things like that, you better be prepared because this is something
that we have no control over and is very it is is not a good
positive thing. Okay, someone wanted to know if peyote plays into the partner
skin Warker. I think peyoti might play a part and lots of things.
Who know, yeah maybos, Yeah it could. But you know there,
you know, Skinwalker Ranch and the U went to Basin is a paranormal is
a hot spot. There are all sorts of things happening there. So you
get the UFOs, you get bigfoot, shape shifters, you name it.
It is happening there. Strange creature. Why. I don't know, but
I think when you start researching things, you realize that oftentimes this phenomena might
go hand in hand. Yep, that there's talk about that. I read
the book George Knapp and I have communicated a number of times, and he's
just such a busy guy, you know, trying to get him on the
show to talk about that, and I'll even suggested, you know, we
can do a pre record anything to you know, to get him on.
I really want to get him on to talk about that. What a fascinating
book that is. And one of the things that struck me the most.
I don't know why, but it does is when all the scientists were there
and they had their camera set up and everything outside, and all of a
sudden they just saw this like it looked like this hole appeared and then the
sync climbed out of it. You know what I mean. That that is
like wow, you know what I mean, all these people witness that,
and you know, maybe I'm naive to think that it really happened when it
may not have happened, but still the whole thing is fascinating. Another unanswered
so to speak. I think there's definitely a reason why Bigelow bought that property
and spent a lot of money with you know, hiring the best scientists and
bodyguard security to go in there and study stuff. He's not He's a very
smart man. There was a reason. And I have a friend whose name
is Ryan Burns. He lives in the property that is very very close to
Skinwalker Ranch and has seen very amazing things. I mean we're talking strange creatures,
objects, you know, portals almost opening up. And he's also had
an experience and I saw the slides when he was at move On meeting a
while back, of men, men in black, men in in suits on
his property with equipment doing something. It was pretty pretty interesting, pretty intriguing.
My I have a friend, a person contact up there that will keep
me updated a couple times a month. And there's been a lot of military
activity up there as of late. And then the UFO activity also seems to
be increasing from the reports I'm getting up that way. Well, you know
when when Phil when the person on the message what was asking about the peyote,
he was actually how serious he wasn't doing it, you know, to
be uh funny or anything like that, because now that's a cactus or something,
you know, But it's been used for I think along you know,
many many hundreds of years, if not longer. But I don't really know
much about it, do you you know? I know that it is very
sacred and it opens up a part of your subconscious and to many profound experiences.
I have a friend that went down to South America to meet with the
medicine man and had oh my gosh, and I wish I could remember the
name hyahuasca. I can't remember the name. But they went deep into the
jungle and then took this substance and we're gravely ill for a couple days,
just vomiting, but then had these experiences that were just amazing, and she
felt that it was allowing her to transcend different dimensions. Wow. Someone was
asking more about the portal on the message board, and you know, that
was the thing that came up there. I have heard that in the past,
you know, about different like events like I'm not sure if it's a
UFO, but you know a lot of times it would almost make sense the
way they appear and disappear, you know, like who knows the end of
a wormhole. I'm really going out there, you know tonight, but I
all unexplained it is. But if you you know when that's part of the
thing that I'm trying to look into is where are these objects appearing? They
appear in specific places lots of studies with the Muffon Project Orange, lots of
you know, going through the database back east. They're appearing near bodies of
water. So are they coming in and out of these bodies of water they
who knows, but that the sightings clusters are pointing to something in that specific
area, so we will see. I believe that perhaps maybe something is happening
with lay lines gravitational anomalies. There's something that, Yeah, I don't know,
but I would let you know because I've got so many puzzles to solve,
so many riddles to solve, and well, it really keeps you know,
this whole type of thing. It really keeps me really interested in the
subject because it's just you know, the more you look into it, the
more questions there are. And I don't think that we're really going to know
the answer anytime soon. And if we do know the answers, it'll only
be to some of the things. And for instance, if we know what
UFOs really are, if they really are extraterrestrial, which I believe makes more
sense than most of anything else. But there are still so many unanswerable things
that go on besides that, you know, there are and I think We're
never going to find out the answers if we spend, if we waste a
lot of time deciding whether this you know, or do UFOs exist? I
think we ought to just say yes and move on with it. Like I
was saying earlier, we have ample evidence. So we need to be proactive
and really figure out why, where, how, and quit debating each other
and work together. This is vital because if something was happening, it well
it is, but it needs to We don't know what any intentions are and
we need to just maybe think about a lot of different things and prepare.
That's right, you know, I mean, of course, you know you
hear over and over again if if they were malevolent, then we would certainly
know by now we could certainly be destroyed many times. Well that's what we
would like to hope. That would be good. And I mean I I,
oh, gosh, every day is a new day for me with that
regard. Some days I think everything is happy and we're living in a world
where we can all communicate and there's nothing, you know, malevolent going on.
But the bottom line is we just don't know. That's right. We
really need to be prepared either way. That's right, And you know there
I did a pre record that's coming up with a gentleman in Amsterdam and Dame
Gerard Arts. And the thing that we'll be talking about in that show is
when that does air eventually, is you know, he thinks that they are
peace, peace loving and trying to keep us from destroying ourselves, and that
does you know, there is a theme of that. You do hear about
different circumstances, you do. And I, for me, when I had
experiences with the objects I saw, I felt very connected. I felt whatever
it was was quite benevolent. And I those are my impressions. Whether that's
the case, I have no clue, but I you know, even even
abductees or experiencers at first these events are incredibly traumatizing, but then as their
life unfolds and they learn more, they learn that these beings are really here
to to help the planet. Right. But you know that's I don't know,
we just we know so little, right, yep. You know a
number of number of things you hear about kind of dovetail that you know of
people seeing visions and you know, I go back to the I want to
say, Papa New Guinea or I know it was in Africa of all those
school children, what they were seeing and what they were feeling, you know,
is more feelings than anything else. It was are you talking about with
the John Mack? Yes, and doctor Mack. That was incredible and in
speaking of what a brilliant man, very brave researcher. Oh yes, absolutely,
and too bad he left us early. That was interesting. It was
sad and he really was. He just did so much and it was really
sad. And Bud Hopkins as well, Right right, yeah, interesting,
let's see so again, if you're listening live, you can jump over to
our chat room and pose a question and I'll give the number out one more
time if you'd like to call in six O three seven four three to zero.
And did have you ever thought? I know you read books, but
I was every once in a while I think too, there's someone like you
think about ever writing anything. It's funny because I actually would love to write,
and I that's another creative outlet for me. And since I'm not doing
as much singing, I'm not performing anymore that I think that would be wonderful.
And I have you know, I've written a lot of songs and done
things like that, but i've had if. I was talking to Nick Redford
actually, and he was encouraging me to to do that and said he would
help me. And so actually Richard Dolan and I have had conversations about that
as well. So I have all of these great people that are are brilliant
and will help me do that, and I feel very lucky. So perhaps
you'll see something. It might be a picture book two pages. Yeah,
you said you were artistic, so well, I don't know about that.
I try. I'm actually trying to do a portrait right now, and that
is kind of scary. I think maybe I have a great art for doing
portraits of alien man babies. I don't know how that happens. And you
didn't. It didn't start out that way, like it? Not really?
No, Nope. One of the things up i'd noticed about Nick Redfurn is
he puts out a ton of books and I can never understand how people can
be so prolific in their work like that, it's amazing, And how to
come up with a fresh new idea or story. I've had him on a
couple of times. I'm sure you're going to have him on. Hope to
have him on again. Yeah, he's a really neat man, and I
I don't know how he does it either, because my lord, he has
done a lot of things. In fact, he just was kind enough to
send me his new book and we will. He is going to be on
the show in the middle of August, so we'll talk about that. Now.
If I remember your radio station, I may have it confused with another
one. But will they allow you to do a podcast out of that?
You know, that is something I just need to look into. But what
I'm planning on doing, and I've got the green light for this, is
I will be doing videos of my interviews, so you'll be able to do
a little screen capture and you can see both parties communicating. And then I
have videos as well that I've done at different events, and I've got a
great interview with Steve Bassett, Nick Redfern Lin Key Tie and those will be
on my website UFO Audit as well. You know, I tried to.
I actually thought of doing what you're talking about, like a screen capture type
thing, and it just with what we are doing here, it's audio is
just the real important part of it. So I'm probably not going to do
that. And I did a note that I would do a Google hangout with
people. And I tried a Google hangout once on the show, and there's
a little bit of lag. I don't know if you've ever tried any of
that, but no, yeah, so I'd be a little bit cautious.
So moving ahead, no questions up on the message board. So what would
be a good topic to talk about? Well, I think Peggy was talking
about a good UFO story. Oh okay, and so I have. I
had a lady who called in the other day. She lives in southern Utah.
She filed a report and she was, you know, just a I
mean, she's about my age, just watching, just watching the events outside,
hanging out, talking to her sister on the phone, and she notices
this white pulsing sphere outside of her house. And then she sees a helicopter
that is just not moving, and this helicopter is observing this object as it's
moving and kind of churning and bubbling, and she was, you know,
she told her sister, I've got to get off the phone now. This
is something really incredible is happening. And the helicopter observed the object for some
time and then she said the orb appeared to almost fold into itself and then
was just gone. So after talking with her, I realized, we both
realized when we started talking about the orb phenomena. And she lived in Salt
Lake and told me about two other instances, one specifically where she was on
a freeway on ramp and two of these orange orbs were got a couple hundred
feet away from her car, and they basically there were the freeway, traffic
on the on ramp was stopped and people were hanging out of the car looking
at these objects. She said, the light and the color and the energy
coming off of these objects was intense and unlike anything she'd ever seen. And
she just watched these objects move together, move apart, move around each other.
It was really quite a phenomenal experience for her now getting these orbs.
You know, we've discussed some quite a bit in the show so far,
and one of the things when I was talking with Terry Ray back when he
was saying, you know that he watched these orbs have the same sort of
like I should call it flight pattern or a pattern, and that's kind of
what you were seeing earlier. But someone on the message board wanted to know
if if those if that siting was close to you, like was there a
long distance? And did you have any fear when you actually saw these things?
You know, I didn't have fear. I had just an amazing sense
of it was beautiful. It took my breath away, and somehow I felt
very connected to what was going on, and it was almost as if,
you know, this object was saying, okay, here I am. I
had another you know, during this twenty thirteen summer, I had other events,
one specifically where I was driving home on the freeway and I looked up
on the hill close to my home and I noticed this blue object and I
just it was so strange. It was up in the mountains, there were
no roads, and I thought, okay, is that a hiker? What
kind of light is it? It's somebody with a laser pointer. And so
I kept driving and as I moved past a mountain, I looked back up
and the object was now on a different mountain, and I just thought,
okay, that is really bizarre. So I did what every good investigator would
do. And in fact, I wasn't a moof on investigator then, but
you know, I went and got a taco or a burrito, or something.
And then I came home and I was outside just watching a lightning storm
and trying to take some photographs of it, thinking that that was strange.
I'm going to write it off. And I looked up the mountain straight up
from me, and I could see that object and another object, and they
were right there, and I got I was. I will say that I
was at that point very unnerved. I did take a couple pictures of those
objects, and I went home and or I went into my house and I
called my friend and I just said, I'm afraid. You've got to calm
me down, talk me off the ledge. I don't want to go to
bed tonight. And yeah, that was. That was an interesting experience.
And then to top it off, not to be, you know, reading
too much into this, but I didn't sleep well that night. I left
for work the next day and I was driving out of my little area and
a black and marked helicopter flew right over the top of my car, and
it scared me to death. It was I've never had an experience like that.
So it was it was twenty four hours of some really intense things and
whether they related, whether I was reading too much into things, I don't
know, but it was definitely that was a series of odd events. Wow,
the organizer, this is a question on the message board. The organizer
of Project Orange Orange has a theory on what the orbs are. Do you
agree or disagree? You know? I I, oh, my gosh,
I think that I do agree. And if you're talking about the you know,
the organizer. I put the research project together, and I enlisted the
help of Terry Ray because I heard him lecture and I knew about his book,
and I just knew I needed him to be a part of this,
and so Terry and I reached out to Robert Spearing, who had also done
a lot of research. Terry believes that these entities are, you know,
obviously intuitive. Not from here. I have to say that I am inclined
to believe that as well about that these are intelligent. You know from from
our case reports, these are intelligently controlled. But we'll just, I guess,
we will just let the data speak and we'll try to find out as
much as we can and educate the public as we do that. Let's see
up of the message board. Do you ever have dreams about UFOs? I
think that I have lots of dreams about UFOs and I have. Oh I've
always had really vivid dreams. It's that only child thing, but I yeah,
I have, and I think I think dreams are so cool. They're
so fascinating, and lots of times I'll write down my dreams. I like
to dream journal, you know. I until we started talking about this,
I forgot all about But I've had like a repeat dream that I look up
in the sky and see like hundreds of UFOs and they're like, Wow,
what are we going to do? You know, are we being invaded?
You know that type of dream. I've had that a few different ways,
and it's I'm never feeling good at the time in the dream. No,
Oh my gosh, it's rather nerve racking. I really when I had I
had a brief siting, i should say. And when I had that,
I never had any fear. There was no fear involved. It was just
like, what the heck? That's uh, I don't know how to describe
it. That's good, you know, because I work. I just was
asked to be on the abduction research team for Moufon and boy, a majority
of these people that have had experiences are very terrified. So if we can
have, you know, nice experiences. That's great, Yeah, exactly.
Now, speaking of experiences and experiencers, what do you hear in your state
about people that are describing abductions or is that something you don't really hear about?
You know what, we don't have a lot of people that are really
talking openly about or filing reports in Utah. We have had a few that
have had experiences. I hope that changes. I think with abductions, people
are still so very scared to come forward and society is not kind to people
that do. And I hope we can change that because this is an area
that needs serious research as well. I do. Yeah, you know,
I had a hard time sometimes. I have a hard time sometimes thinking that
it's as fast as people are claiming it is. But I don't know,
you know, because it seems like it's tens of thousands, you know,
constantly. And yeah, it's kind of like when I was saying earlier about
the more you look into it, the more questions you would be having.
And why would they be generational? Why would they possibly follow someone if they
moved to a different state, or you know, I mean there's just more
and more and more questions there are. And it's interesting because I actually did
an abduction investigation up near Skinwalker Ranch and it was three generations in a family
that was in the grandmother was in her nineties and started having experiences when she
was five years old. That was fascinating. And with this type of thing,
you have to listen to the witness and basically decide whether they're credible rational
human beings. There's not a lot of physical evidence to go on, but
we can just keep studying it and hopefully learning more about abductees and what the
patterns are, because there are their patterns there as well. You know,
a lot of times you think of abduction beginning with Betty and Barney Hill nineteen
sixty one or wherever whenever it was. But when you hear you do hear
about people saying, yeah, you know, this person's in their eighties or
nineties and they think they've been having this experience, and you know, someone
looking at the skeptical side would say, oh, yeah, well they just
passed it down, you know, the stories down to their you know,
children or whatever. You know, I'm sure there's always that that side of
it. It's another mystery, yeah it is, but I you know,
and there are always people too that and this is very very few people,
but people that want attention, and you know, but that doesn't happen very
often because at the end of the day, who wants that kind of attention
right, right exactly? Someone wants to know. How you decide what information
is reliable and useful and what is rubbish or unreliable. It's a lot of
research, it's a lot of doing. You know, when I get a
case, I will look to multiple sources, so I'm checking different databases.
I'm also looking at the siting and reaching out to other state directors or field
investigators that have had similar case reports. So I'm doing that. And then
you know, you have to look at the weather data. You have to
make sure you are checking to see if it's not a man made object.
You know, there's so many things that go into it. And then also
there is a sense of intuition. Is this person you know? You can
you get pretty good at discerning somebody's character. Is this a hoax? You
know, it's There's a lot of things that go into being a good investigat
and I'm still learning as much as i can from all of the people that
have been doing this for much longer than I have. Yeah, I'm sure
that's a big part of it is learning from those who started before you.
I wouldn't think that there would be a high amount of hoaxes as far as
people calling in reports that is that true or not? I have not seen
a lot. Yeah, so it's kind of a time consuming process to file
a report, right and to go through all that. So I don't know.
I mean, I'm sure you do get people. I haven't and not.
I have not had a case in Utah where somebody who has been hoaxing
something. I'm sure it will come up. But gosh, if you're that
bored, I don't know what to tell you. Get a life. Maybe
speaking with Peter Davenport, he does, you know, get some call ins.
But when you're right when it comes to actually writing a report, who's
gonna who's going to take the time and energy? You know, people are
only going to do something like that if they can get a lot of hits
on YouTube by creating, you know, a hoax video third Phades of the
Moon. I'm going to put that out there. Oh come on now,
yeah, say it ain't so yeah, well yeah, uh yeah, there's
part of that that. But for the most part, something is not going
to put the energy into it. But one of the things that does come
up a lot is you know, drones and Chinese lantern Those are the two
things that we really as people out there are investigating, they really have to
discern what a witness is saying when it comes to these things. You know
they do. But I will say, since this is a passion of mine,
that I do believe people are unfortunately jumping to the conclusion that things are
Chinese lanterns, and they are missing really really good cases Chinese lanterns. Obviously,
you know, follow the wind currents, they don't last very long.
They you know, there are all sorts of telltale signs that it's a Chinese
lantern. Most states have banned the use of Chinese lanterns because of the fire
hazards, right, So you know, I think I think that those the
Chinese lantern theory, hopefully with the Project Orange will maybe not become as easy
of an out for people. What about drones, do you ever get any
of that through through your state? You know, I have a new person
that is training to be a filled investigator, and he has worked for the
military and I asked him that very thing because of the sightings that we've had
over the Salt Lake Valley, and he said that it is absolutely will not
happen of the military. It is illegal to fly drones here. And I
asked them, well, you know, we've got these sightings over the valley.
Would the military be testing anything over populated areas? Absolutely not, right,
So you know that there goes that if it's it's the Yeah, what
I've seen is not a drone, and I would think that that's h you
know, I don't think that's what a majority of these people are seeing.
Now. There are you know, the personal drones, the little you know,
the little four bladed ones that you can activate off of your cell phone,
stuff like that. I'm sure that there's a lot of things being seen
out there, but mostly those type of things are more in populated areas that
they're being used or there's actually some film drones. Now. I don't know
what's legal and illegal to use. I'm sure it has to do with probably
size perhaps or where they're being flown out. I don't know any of the
regulations. Well I have I have to tell you a funny story. I
have a neighbor who has a drone and it's really really super cool and he
is a photographer, so he'll use it for that and he knew I was
having a little moof on meeting here. Oh oh, and so this is
the best story ever. But we were all sitting on the back deck and
you know, we're quietly telling these stories and it's intense, and all of
a sudden, my neighbor flies it's drone right over the patio and just to
see the look on people's faces, it was the funniest, like two minutes
of my life. And I'm pretty sure that he had a camera on the
drone and I'm sure he was over in his driveway just laughing. It was
Oh funny. Well it's the little things in life that make you happy.
So yeah, yeah, Now going back to move On. You're the director.
There's only eight eight or so sightings a month that are reported. How
many investigators are in the state we have right now? We have got five
investigators, but we still need more. And even though we only have eight
sightings, there's so much that we could be doing in the meantime. You
know, we have to go out and talk to law enforcement and build relationships
with them so we can get information. We do have reports of cattle mutilations
consistently in some of these areas, like you went to Basin, so all
sorts of stuff can be done, and we did have on October second of
last year, we had a mass sighting here and in Colorado and that was
that made national news. That was a pretty big deal. So that is
still being investigated, at least here in Utah. The theory was for a
while that they were Google loon balloons, but my thoughts on that have been
there was no transponder data, and these objects were seen over the NSA,
which is the most highly restricted airspace in the world, over populated areas,
and in the flight corridor for the Saltlic International Airport, which would be a
huge safety concern. So lots of things weren't adding up. The fact that
these objects were stationary for over an hour at a time and then moved incredibly
quickly. It was. It was. It's a great case. So I
have made a for your request. I have twice from the FAA received data
that it is unreadable, so maybe at some point in time we'll get the
information. But on my in Utah that is still a big question mark.
Now, how many people would you say witness that approximately? Oh boy,
you know, I would say in Utah there were at least one hundred people.
I mean, we had I started getting calls from the media that afternoon,
and Fox thirteen News just said, hey, you know what's going on.
Our message boards on Facebook are lighting up. We're getting phone calls.
People all over the Salt Lake Valley are seeing these objects and they want to
know what they are. And at that point it was just kind of scrambling
and trying to figure out if I could see anything on flight radar and making
phone calls. It was really great because the next day they were seen in
Colorado and over there there were cases where these objects were seen with jets pursuing
them. Military jets. That's something you hear about quite a bit, you
know. I've known some eyewitnesses that have had that same story. One up
in Canada. The whole party, a group out on his deck, they
all watch this disc fly by with two fighter jets on its tail. You
know, you hear about that a lot, and it just it's so curious
to me why you don't hear the pilots eventually talk about them, you know,
them actually doing that. I've never heard except for the case and I
wreck or I ran back in nineteen seventy four or whenever that was. You
don't really hear about the pilots that we're pursuing. You don't, and I
think having a couple of friends that are actually still in the service, it's
not anything that you talk about because of all of the fact that it's your
risking your career. And you do find commercial pilots are a little bit better
now at talking about things, but there's still a big stigma there. Okay,
Erica, we only have a couple of minutes, well about a minute,
just over a minute here. But one of the questions that was on
the message board is do you do you suppose it's possible that the lack of
reports in your state have anything to do with the religious beliefs. That thought
has crossed my mind. That's a great question. I think that there might
be some correlation, but I think it honestly at the end of the day,
it's just the fact that people don't know where to go to report it.
And when I have had case reports, there have been people that have
been of the predominant fave and so I don't. I don't know. It's
a great question, but I'll keep you posted on that. Yeah, you
know that. Often often I would imagine, does have we have something up?
This is a total different message board from my from my producer. Come
up an update from Richard C. Hoagland on today's released image of Pluto on
Skywatchers Radio. That's next, right after the show we have I think that's
going to wrap it up for us. Erica, do you have a website?
You know? It is the Ufoaudit dot com. And then I'm on
Facebook and you can go to the UFO Audits. Well, I'm sorry to
do this but I'm gonna have to cut to short. This is Martin Willis
and I want to thank everyone for listening to the show. I want to
thank Keith for producing the show, Peggy for our Facebook page, our guest
of course, Erica Lukes, and thank you the listener, the most important
part of the show. We'll see you next week right here on podcast UFO
and the Dark Matter Digital Network.