WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:08.800 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting 2 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:13.679 podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof 3 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:18.280 Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three twenty nine. Why couldn't you just put the 4 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:24.160 bunny back in the box? Nicholas Cage Khan air broadcasting from a dark, 5 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:28.160 windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. 6 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:33.920 It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while 7 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:38.479 teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex 8 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:43.640 Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I 9 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:49.159 am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof 10 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:55.359 Script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually 11 00:00:55.399 --> 00:01:00.320 focuses on the kind of project you are in the goals of the project are, 12 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:03.480 so we actually break it down by three categories micro budget, indie film, 13 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.040 market and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader 14 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.519 that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for 15 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:15.120 one hundred thousand dollars and we wanted to focus on that At Bulletproof script coverage, 16 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.200 our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WM E, NBC, 17 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.480 HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and 18 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:29.400 many many more. So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by 19 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:34.439 professional readers, head on over to cover my screenplay dot com. And I 20 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:42.920 was able to get a legendary filmmaker on the show. He is arguably one 21 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:48.400 of the best action directors of his generation. We have on the show today, 22 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:55.879 director and producer Simon West. Some of his films are The legendary Khan 23 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:59.879 Air, The General's Daughter with John Travolta, Laura Croft, tomb Rate, 24 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:07.840 Expendables to The Mechanic Wild Card with Jason Statham, and many many more. 25 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:15.759 Simon is an absolute master at creating amazing action sequences and really fun and entertaining 26 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:23.520 action films. And Simon I have a fantastic conversation about his origins, how 27 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:28.879 he was trained so so young in so many different disciplines before he ever really 28 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:32.639 set foot on a major film set, and how he was able to deal 29 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.400 on his first big budget film with Jerry Bruckheimer and kN Air, how he 30 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.120 dealt with all the testosterone on that set, how he was able to create 31 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:46.039 all of those amazing acts and sequences with no CG or very very minimal CG, 32 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.039 and so so much more. This is such a fun conversation, guys, 33 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:58.199 so sit back and enjoy my conversation with Simon West. I'd like to 34 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.800 welcome to the show, Simon West. How you do a Simon very well? 35 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.560 How are you? I'm doing great, my friend. Thank you so 36 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.840 much for coming on the show. As I was telling you earlier, I've 37 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:13.439 been a huge fan of your work from the beginning of your feature world, 38 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.080 and I actually seen some of your music videos and commercials as well growing up. 39 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:22.120 But you know, there's very few action directors to do action like you 40 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:27.240 do, so I'm excited to get into the weeds of your journey and of 41 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.199 your process. So first question, my friend, I have to ask you, 42 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:32.840 is why in God screen Earth did you want to get into this insanity 43 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:37.360 that is called the film industry. Well, I never really had any other 44 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.560 idea of anything else I wanted to do, and you know, from about 45 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:46.759 twelve years old, it was quite serious. But I have to say I 46 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.639 was really fascinated by film from like three or four years old because my dad 47 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:54.960 had an old Super eight camera and projector, and it's one of my earliest 48 00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:00.840 memories of him putting the screen up in our kitchen and projecting you know, 49 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:05.520 home movies and just the fascination of seeing the moving image on this screen in 50 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:11.280 a dark room, you know, with the dust melting on the bulb, 51 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.479 and the smell of it and the smell of the screen. And I still 52 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:16.839 have that screen, and every time I open it, it's the same old 53 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:20.319 smell takes me back to like being you know, four years old and seeing 54 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.319 the home movies, and so it stuck with me. So when I hit 55 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:28.040 twelve and I was sort of you know, could do something about it, 56 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.560 I got you know, a paper round and saved up my money and bought 57 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:38.040 a little Super eight film camera, and then it was all about saving up 58 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.959 money for the film stock because in those days, in a one role of 59 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.879 film that was two and a half minutes long cost about the same as two 60 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:53.519 music albums, so it's really expensive. So I never had a music collection 61 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.000 growing up, because all my friends, you know, would have albums and 62 00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:01.240 collect vinyl and I never did because every penny I say went on movie film, 63 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:05.240 you know, to make my little films. And so I still don't 64 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:09.879 really have a music collection. I mean, I've just about started to do, 65 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:13.519 you know, Spotify playlists and everything, but I've never owned physically a 66 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.160 music collection, and I guess nobody does now everything is this virtual. So 67 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.519 but yeah, so it was. It was one of my earliest memories. 68 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:25.639 It's the only thing I ever wanted to do. I sort of started earnestly 69 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.600 making stuff at twelve, and then when I got to sixteen, I joined 70 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:34.040 a I heard about a film club in the next city to me, which 71 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:40.759 was Oxford, and they had sixteen millimeter film equipment and they were mostly you 72 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:45.079 know, graduates or postgraduates, and you know, I went along as this 73 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.439 sort of gorky sixteen year old kid, and they taught me to use the 74 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:53.199 sixteen mill equipment and so I started just shooting that myself, and I went 75 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:57.000 out on the streets of London and into the you know, the subway and 76 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:01.560 shot things down there. And I started shooting musicians who just played on the 77 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:06.519 street, you know, busking for money. And I sort of combined music 78 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.040 and film quite early on in that way, and then I was sort of 79 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:15.120 interested in the musicians, but I was also interested in the way music played 80 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:17.360 with film and it was always very you know, evocative to me. So 81 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:21.680 even though I never had a music collection, I always associated you know, 82 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:29.480 music and film the imagery together. And I managed at eighteen to talk my 83 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:35.160 way into the BBC and their film department. And at that time there weren't 84 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:40.680 really there was one film school in England, the National Film School, and 85 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.279 it was really hard to get into. You had to be a graduate or 86 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:46.160 postgraduate, or you had to have been a journalist, or you had to 87 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.600 have gone on a expedition through the jungle. You had to offer them something 88 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:55.519 quite exceptional to get in, and the only took twenty five people a year, 89 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.560 you know, which was a tiny amount. So I didn't think there 90 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:05.439 was any ants of getting into that. But luckily the BBC took a you 91 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:09.560 know, there was one guy there I think that sort of saw a bit 92 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:15.319 of himself in me. That was this sort of precocious film bratt who knew 93 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:17.720 everything about or thought they knew everything about film. And I certainly knew a 94 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:23.639 lot technically about how how it worked, and you know, I could talk 95 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:28.759 endlessly about film. And you know, I've been watching Trufau films on you 96 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.040 know, my little black and white portable in my bedroom from you know, 97 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.439 twelve years old. So I knew about, you know, different sorts of 98 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:40.759 cinema out there in American cinema, French cinema, English cinema, and but 99 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.639 I also do technically how to do it. So they kind of, you 100 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:46.199 know, one of the questions was like, well, we don't usually take 101 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.360 people of your age. You know, you have to usually be in your 102 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:53.920 twenties at least to get in mid twenties, and they said, well, 103 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:55.480 what are you going to do if you don't get in. I said, 104 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.000 well, I'll just apply again. I'll just keep applying until you let me 105 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.360 in. So they just obviously didn't want to be stalked or you know, 106 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:05.120 for the next ten years. So they let me in and they trained me. 107 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.519 So I got was training by the BBC in every department that was great 108 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.199 at that time. They taught you film, editing, photography, and everything 109 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:20.079 about the lenses, everything about the lighting, how the sounder has recorded, 110 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:26.920 how the sounds mixed, everything technically, and then they send you to every 111 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:33.600 department. So I started in documentaries. Then I went to drama, and 112 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:39.039 then arts documentaries and news and current affairs, and they just rotate you around 113 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.159 and then when you find an area that you like, you can you know, 114 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.840 apply to stay there. And I ended up in drama obviously because that's 115 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.759 what I wanted to do, and I work with some you know, great 116 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:54.759 directors under them. When I was there, was like Mike Lee was there 117 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.000 at the time, a film who does very improvised drama. So I kind 118 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:03.960 of, you know, tapped into that and realized how you can work with 119 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:07.200 actors to get so much out of an actor rather than just sitting in your 120 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:11.000 room, you know, bashing out the script yourself, if you actually get 121 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:13.559 a group of actors together, you're going to come up with something really cool. 122 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.039 So he taught me a lot of that. And then also there was 123 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:22.080 the traditional BBC dramas which you know, Sherlock Holmes or Bride and Prejudice or 124 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.759 you know, anything to do with Dickens or you know, Emily Bronte all 125 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.759 that sort of costume drama which are very traditional, and then on the other 126 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:35.159 hand, this sort of improvised drama from Mike Lee. And but also I 127 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:43.360 learned a lot from working in documentaries and New and Current affairs, because documentaries 128 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.559 taught me to make a story out of what you actually ended up with, 129 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:52.399 not what you hope to get. We'll be right back after a word from 130 00:09:52.399 --> 00:10:01.519 our sponsor, and now back to the show. Often you plan a movie 131 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:03.600 or filming and you it's going to be perfect, and then you're going to 132 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.000 get all these great sequences, but what you actually end up with is sort 133 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.879 of if you're lucky, it's, you know, fifty percent of what you 134 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.639 set up out to get, and then you've got to make the best story 135 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:16.639 you can add of what you actually ended up with. And documentaries is like 136 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.600 that. You turn up, you shoot, whatever happens, and then you 137 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:22.559 look at this pile of stuff and you go, okay, how can we 138 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.039 make a story out of this material? So I used that a lot in 139 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.480 my filmmaking, you know, that that sense of don't don't stress too much 140 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.679 about what you were hoping to get, just try and make the best of 141 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.000 what you did actually get, and some of it's better than you planned, 142 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.120 you know. And then the other thing that was in current affairs. I 143 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.519 mean I worked on a news program called Newsnight, which is still running that 144 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:50.679 went out at eleven o'clock at night, and you'd sit around all morning waiting 145 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:54.039 for stories to come in, and then the afternoon the story would come in 146 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.879 and you'd be editing all afternoon, and then you know, you'd still be 147 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.879 mixing the sound and everything as the show started. So quite often, you 148 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.519 know, you were running down the corridor with the film under your arm as 149 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:09.840 the anchor was announcing the film and they were throwing on the machine and pressing 150 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.679 go, and it just made it. And that taught me not to panic, 151 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.879 because again, when you're shooting, things go wrong, you know, 152 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:24.679 and sometimes you're under a huge stress. I've been in situations with gigantic stunts, 153 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:28.919 you know, some pretty famous ones on you know, in films like 154 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.840 conn Air and everything, where I've had two hundred stuntmen, a full sized 155 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:39.240 airplane, a full sized building that's supposed to collapse, and it's all supposed 156 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.960 to happen in one go. I've had seventeen cameras running and it's something has 157 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:50.279 gone wrong and you just can't panic, and you can't you know, crumble. 158 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:56.279 And that sort of broadcast news as it were that I worked on taught 159 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:01.480 me how to you know how to keep a steady head in the situation like 160 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:07.000 that happens. So it's so it's fascinating hearing your story is that it looks 161 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:11.559 like you went through almost a boot camp early on, very early on, 162 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:16.519 and covered almost every aspect of the tool sets. You picked up so many 163 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:20.240 tools that you put in your toolbox that your director's toolbox. By the time 164 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.759 you started to actually direct, you'd have been doing it in a sense for 165 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:30.559 a long time. These skills like the broadcast news which which doesn't specifically, 166 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.519 you know, translate the cinema, but yes, it does translate the cinema. 167 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.279 So it kind of you were kind of being groomed, you know, 168 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.879 by the universe if you will, to do the kind of films that you 169 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.039 are doing have been doing throughout your career. Yeah, you know, I 170 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:48.559 was very lucky in that sense that I did end up and it wasn't just 171 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:52.240 then. It was later when I went through music videos for a little bit, 172 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:58.080 and then commercials particularly, which then give me another set of skill sets 173 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.879 and experience. And it's flying hours. You know, there's that old adage, 174 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:03.120 you know, be an expert, you have to do something for ten 175 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.960 thousand hours, and so if you can arrive on set, you know, 176 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:11.559 with ten twenty thirty fifty thousand hours of flying time, you're going to be 177 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:16.360 in a much better position. I mean, I started in editing, which 178 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:22.480 is particularly lucky because that is definitely a great learning for directors how to construct 179 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.879 the story and how what do you actually need, and how you can cheat 180 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.759 and how you can you know, give yourself some slack and not have to 181 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:33.159 shoot every single thing you think you need because you know in editing you can 182 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.600 you can help. And so editing was definitely a great start. And then 183 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:45.000 you know when I went as I said, those there's various you know BBC 184 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:50.240 situations. Was that one set of experience. But then when I went into 185 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:56.720 commercials, you know, that's working at a very high level all over the 186 00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:58.840 world. So I would be up a mountain, you know one day, 187 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.120 then I'll be underwater. Then x I'd be you know, hanging out of 188 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:09.480 a helicopter or racing cars or and then I sort of moved towards I guess 189 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.240 what it was. I particularly look, how do I get into feature films? 190 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:16.000 It was like, so I looked for role models and so in in 191 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.440 England, all the big directors went through commercials. So it's Ridley Scott, 192 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:26.120 Tony Scott, Hu Hudson, Adrian Line, Alan Parker, all these guys 193 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:33.080 who ended up making films in England and then Hollywood had gone through commercials, 194 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:37.879 and so I deliberately targeted commercials because it was a very high end kind of 195 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:43.000 training and in especially in England, they're very kind of big budget, glossy, 196 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.879 very well made, often better made than the shows in between them. 197 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.039 You know, at that stage. You know, TV was very cheap and 198 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.759 cheerful in those days in the UK, but the commercials were very high end. 199 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.759 You know, it's caught up now of course, you know, TV 200 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.600 is as as good as movies, if not better and sometimes. But so 201 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:09.120 I targeted those type of people and that thing. So I ended up making 202 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:15.120 a test commercial I shot. I deliberately shot a music video for a band 203 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.759 and I put in I put in a little story in it. So I 204 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:20.639 had to do the typical playing the instruments, and I was never, you 205 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:26.000 know, a big music video director. It was really you know, a 206 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.840 way of paying the bills while I got into commercials and then into movies. 207 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.559 But so I deliberately made this little story in the in the music video, 208 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:37.799 and then after I'd done that, I took it out and I cut it 209 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:43.080 down into a test commercial and I had this you know, test commercial that 210 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:46.799 which I sort of took with me when I got on the plane to the 211 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:52.240 States. And the company I was working with in London had an LA office 212 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.919 and they said, do you want to try and work out through the LA 213 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.399 office because there was no work in the UK at the time, was absolutely 214 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.840 dead. So I went over with sort of four hundred dollars in my pocket 215 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:07.759 and this fake commercial and started you know, touting it around and it sort 216 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.480 of started to get interest, and by sheer coincidence, it was sort of 217 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:18.000 comedic. It was a funny. It was a fake comedy beer commercial. 218 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:23.720 And so then I started just getting off for comedy, which was very comm 219 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:30.480 venient in a way because it was it was the commercials that had actors dialogue. 220 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:36.120 It wasn't just cars driving through pretty forest and mount into models on the 221 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.159 beach. It was you know, it was a little story in itself, 222 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:45.159 so I could practice my my art. And so I just started doing comedy 223 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:48.600 commercials and they got you know, bigger and bigger, and then ended up 224 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:53.480 sort of doing super Bowl commercials for you know, the Budweisers so like bud 225 00:16:53.519 --> 00:17:00.600 Wiser frogs, and then the Pepsi commercials, and they started to get a 226 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.519 lot more attention. And you know, these were you know, the big 227 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.839 budget. You know, they're spending as much as you know, an independent, 228 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.640 little independent film on these thirty second commercials. So again, you know, 229 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.119 I got used to having the big toys as it were, but it 230 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.880 still wasn't a movie. You know, it's still only thirty seconds. It's 231 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:22.200 still not a movie. So I'm still desper and hungry to get into the 232 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:29.440 you know, legitimate filmmaking. And and of course with the with the high 233 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:37.119 profile Super Bowl commercials, I started getting calls from the studios. And so 234 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:42.400 I got a call from Columbia offering me a romantic comedy because they obviously thought, 235 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.839 oh, well he does comedy, so we'll do that. And then 236 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:51.799 I got a spy thriller from a UK company. And then I got the 237 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.000 call from Jerry Bruckheimer, you know who said, you know, I've seen 238 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:00.200 your commercials, are really impressed and coming in for a meeting and let's you 239 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.799 know, talk about possibly making a film together. And circles, I you 240 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.599 know, rushed into that and had the big meeting with Jerry, you know, 241 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.920 on the giant desk, you know, and that you know, in 242 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.640 some ways the rest is history, but it was, it was, you 243 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.359 know, it was an awesome meeting, and I had to He basically had 244 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.160 a wall of scripts behind him. It was in the days when scripts were 245 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.240 printed on paper and every producer would have a stack of them in their office 246 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.400 with the titles of them. But Jerry didn't have just a pile. He 247 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.240 had a wall of them. You know, there's probably a couple of thousand 248 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:36.000 scripts. And he turned around and he pulled three off, which it looked 249 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:38.079 like it was random, but I'm sure he knew exactly which was pulling off, 250 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:41.880 and he threw them across the desk and said, look read those this 251 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:44.200 weekend and tell me which one of the one you want to make as a 252 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:51.480 movie. And two of them were so well, they were all action films 253 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:53.160 basically, because that's what Jerry did, you know, he did. He 254 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:57.400 did those type of films. Two of them are pretty straightforward, you know, 255 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.680 I felt, you know, a bit cliched kind of action moves. 256 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.640 But the third one was was a film called conn Air, and I read 257 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.559 this and it was quite a small film. It was like a character driven 258 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.640 film. But the characters were so good, and even the names of the 259 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.839 characters were cool, like Sally Grunt Dance and Cyrus the Virus, and you 260 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:22.000 know that it just hooked me right just for reading that. I would have 261 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:26.440 done it just for the name of the characters, basically. And so I 262 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.480 went back and I, you know, I turned down the romantic comedy, 263 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:33.480 I turned down the spy thriller. And I said to Jerry Lot, I'm 264 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.640 out of these three. I want to make conn Air. And he said, 265 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:38.079 well, it's a you know, it's very small film, and we 266 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:42.640 need a summer blockbuster. So you've got to go away and turn this small 267 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:47.880 character film because it was written by Scott Rosenberg, who did you know, 268 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:51.680 Things to Do in Denver when You're Dead and Beautiful Girls, which were fantastic 269 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:57.000 but very small, you know, beautifully you know character. We'll be right 270 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:07.400 back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show based 271 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.920 films. And this was the same thing, and Jerry wanted a summer blockbuster, 272 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.759 so I had to go away and sort of invent all these big events 273 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.599 and sort of blow them up and make them, you know, larger than 274 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.720 life. And just every couple of weeks i'd go in, he said, 275 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:22.799 you know, you've got to make it bigger, make it bigger. And 276 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.519 so I just you know, I had a field day just going in and 277 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.039 such thing. Okay, how can we make this thing even bigger and more 278 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.440 ridiculous than it was before? And and that's that's what you ended up with. 279 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.079 That's why looks like that. No, it's fascinating. Kinder is one 280 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.359 of those films that it's just one of those movies that sticks. It sticks 281 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.599 with you for I mean, especially with that generation. When I came out, 282 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.519 I saw it in the theater and and it's it's you know, it's 283 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:52.519 built a life up up on its own over the years, and you know, 284 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.759 there's there's so many legendary stories I hear. I heard. I heard 285 00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:00.559 Danny Trejo. I was watching a recent documentary with him, and there was 286 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.480 a story of him being on set with kN Air and there was obviously a 287 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.720 lot of testosterone on that set, a lot of testosterone, and all the 288 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.000 actors are trying to you know, like, oh, I'm super tough, 289 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.480 and I'm super tough and I'm super tough, and Danny was quiet in the 290 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.039 corner, and Nicolas Cage came up to the group. Because it was all 291 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:22.240 of them sitting around trying to one up each other and how tough they are 292 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:26.599 and how scary they were in real life, and Nicolas Cage came up. 293 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.720 It was the only one I'm scared of is Danny. And Danny hadn't said 294 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.480 a word. And then he's like, what I do? What I do 295 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:38.680 because it was that look that he had, things like good, I'll say 296 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:44.920 here, ironically, Danny was like the sweetest guy of the whole group to 297 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.480 deal with. You know. It was like an inverse proportion the tough you 298 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:51.720 were the nice you were, you know, and it was it was it 299 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:55.839 was all the guys that never been near a prison were the ones that were 300 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.480 or fight or even a fight for that matter. Yeah, I mean anything. 301 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.400 But you know, but you can imagine this. There were four hundred 302 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:06.920 men in the desert for like three months, and I think there were like 303 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.799 at that time, there was only two women on the crew, and it 304 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:12.880 you know, so it did go a bit crazy because you know, you 305 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:15.960 get four hundred guys in the desert and nothing to do in the sun beating 306 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:21.079 down on you. Everyone did go a little bit apocalypse. Now, now, 307 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:22.240 how did you how and how do you? You know, on a 308 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.160 film like that, you know, it's your first big Hollingwood production, You're 309 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.279 working with Jerry Bruckheimer, this is your dream shot. So I'm assuming there's 310 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:33.880 some pressure on you. Yeah, you've got You've got fifty thousand hours. 311 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.559 You've got fifty thousand hours of airtime, there's no question. But you're at 312 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.519 the show. This is the show at this point in your career, and 313 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.759 if this fails, it's over. It's over. Absolutely well. I mean 314 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.680 I had done fifty thousand hours, but short hops, you know, between 315 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:52.640 you know, local local flights. There were you know, the longest shoot 316 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.400 I've been doing was you know, two days, three days. This was 317 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.920 one hundred days shoot, and so by day thirty I was, you know, 318 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.279 down and out. I'd hit the wall. I was like thirty days 319 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:10.079 because it was a giant production, and you know, I was naive. 320 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:12.559 I went in thinking, oh, this is this is completely doable. And 321 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:17.240 it was around day thirty that I just went I'm not sure if I can 322 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:18.440 make it to the end. But you know, after a while, you 323 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.880 sort of buckled down and it becomes a day job, and you start to 324 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.480 think this is this will never end anyway. I'm just going to do this 325 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:27.000 every day for the rest of my life. It's so long, there's so 326 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:32.839 much work with you that it's a very odd when it finishes because you suddenly 327 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:34.200 takes you by surprise. But yeah, there was a lot of pressure. 328 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:40.039 I didn't realize that because I was naive to you know, move. You 329 00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:42.839 know Hollywood and films that they have the studio has a list of your replacements 330 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.119 already drawn up before you when you start filming. So if in the first 331 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.039 two weeks you completely screw it up, they already know who they're going to 332 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:57.960 go to replace you with. Really, yeah, afterwards, but you know 333 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:03.279 I would be I would have felt even more pressure other than that. But 334 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:04.839 I mean, you know, they protect you from that, so they don't 335 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:08.119 want to, you know, completely crush you. So you know, but 336 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.039 it was tough getting people to take you seriously with the first film of that 337 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:17.359 size because some crew members I had worked with in commercials, you know, 338 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:19.279 so they knew that I sort of knew what I was doing, but a 339 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.880 lot of them, you know, it was like, who is this guy. 340 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.119 They've given this massive film too on the first thing. So a lot 341 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:29.480 of people I did have to, you know, come up against and go, 342 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.240 you know, well, this is it is what's happening, and you 343 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.000 know, you know, this is my first film, but you have you 344 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:40.440 basically have to follow the orders because they've given me this responsibility and we are 345 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.920 doing this. And so I'd say, you know, fifty percent of people 346 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:48.279 were very supportive, and then fifty percent were a little tougher. Really yeah, 347 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:53.839 And that's and that's something that a lot of directors directors don't understand when 348 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.839 they first get on set, is that when you know, I remember being 349 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.480 the youngest guy on set as a director, and and and you know, 350 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:04.960 the dps twenty years older than me, or the grips are twenty years older 351 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.839 than me, or the productor and then and they all have this experience and 352 00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:11.759 they test you, and they and a lot of them they just feel like, 353 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.960 oh, this kid doesn't deserve this shot. Things like that. So 354 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:19.400 I can only imagine at your level the kind of I mean, this was 355 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.400 a lottery ticket. Someone literally handed you. Jerry handed you a lottery ticket, 356 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:27.920 and I'm sure you had to deal with it. How do you overcome 357 00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:33.319 those egos on set, those that kind of those kind of barriers when you're 358 00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:36.359 working with crew members, maybe even keys, you know, like your DP 359 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.960 or like your productions that are or you know, keys who are fighting against 360 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.240 your vision as a director, how do you handle that? Well? Luckily, 361 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.559 I mean I didn't have that situation because I you know, I brought 362 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:52.319 my own DP, my own production designer, and so my core crew were 363 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.200 people I knew and trusted and supported me. And it was it was more 364 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.720 the peripherals that were, you know, you you'd come up against. But 365 00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:07.440 all I could do was do a professional job. And also, don't don't 366 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.640 have any ego, because you know, I think that's what gets people's backup 367 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.799 is if they sense that what you're doing or what your decisions are based on 368 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:19.720 ego rather than what's best for the film. Basically, everybody there is a 369 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:26.000 passionate filmmaker and wants the best film possible. And you know, that's why 370 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.119 people go into the film business is because they're really interested in it. And 371 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:32.680 I was, you know, I love the idea when I did a big, 372 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:36.480 complicated crane shot, you know, and it took a while to get 373 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:38.200 that I'd run over to the monitor to see how it went, and I'd 374 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.519 look around and there'd be twenty people looking over my shoulder, because you know, 375 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.000 the grips wanted to see if they did a good job, the camera 376 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.240 focus wanted to see if he did a good job. And and everybody, 377 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:52.640 you know, actors came in to see what they've done. So everybody basically 378 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.000 wants to do a really good job. So it's look, if they sense 379 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.920 that you're the same and you're just there to make the best film, then 380 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:03.160 they get whether you've done five films or no films. And and it's only 381 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:07.759 if it's if a director brings this ego on set and and it's trying to 382 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:14.799 demand respect through you know, position or you know, and and it's just 383 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.160 flexing muscles, and usually you know, it's a it's a cover insecurity. 384 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.559 I think, you know, when they're panicking and they don't know what they're 385 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:25.960 doing, and it comes out as ego. And it's the same with difficult 386 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.960 actors. Usually I found the actors that are really talented, and luckily, 387 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.079 you know, I came in at a very high level, so I'm I'm 388 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:36.839 dealing with, you know, people that have won Oscars and who have got 389 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:41.680 thirty years of experience and have done and these people are very talenting and operating 390 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.279 at a very high level in their field. And when people are good at 391 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:52.319 something, they're usually very secure in it and and so they're they're not you 392 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:55.799 know, they don't they're not difficult. It's it's usually when someone's very insecure 393 00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:59.000 in what they're doing and think they're faking it or they think they're not very 394 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.039 good, that they end up being a problem because they're sort of diverting attention 395 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.319 from what they think is they're failing. So I haven't you had a problem 396 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.279 like that with all those big guys you know where there's Nick Cage or John 397 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.279 Malkovich or John Qusep, all those guys. I didn't have a problem at 398 00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:18.039 all because they were very good at what they did and so they were very 399 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.559 comfortable in playing in that world. And also we created a really you know, 400 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:26.319 it was a fun It was a fun film to make because you know, 401 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.799 you get to say those great lines and all these actors, which basically 402 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.359 independent film they're you know, they were used to doing costume dramas or little 403 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:38.279 indies in motel rooms and suddenly they're on this giant film set and Malkovich has 404 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:42.240 got a pump action shotgun in his hand and his shouting you know, crazy 405 00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:47.160 lines, and they're having the time of their life, so why would you 406 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.599 be? And also they're being paid four times more than they've ever been paid 407 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:55.599 because you know, Jerry's got the massive checkbook. So that's how I ended 408 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:57.720 up with such a great cast is because Jerry just said, just pick all 409 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:03.039 your favorite actors. And when you've got that huge you know, big brother 410 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.960 of him and the studio behind you, you can no one can say no 411 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.400 really because it's a really fun, you know enterprise, it's great script, 412 00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:18.200 and they're being paid handsomely that everybody is there, you know, for a 413 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.680 very good reason. They're having a really good time. So it wasn't as 414 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.079 bad as people think, like suddenly you've got twenty big actors. They're all 415 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.640 going to be complete pain in the ass. You know, occasionally one person 416 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:33.880 has a bad day or something like we all do. But generally speaking, 417 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:37.960 you know that everyone was enjoying it, and you know, I mean it's 418 00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.480 still waiting around. To be honest, the work is never the problem. 419 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:45.559 That's when people get, oh do I have to wait another you know, 420 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.160 for this lighting or this set or the stunt to be set up. The 421 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:52.720 actual acting they love to do. So as long as you can, you 422 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:57.279 know, give them an acting to do, they're they're happy. We'll be 423 00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:04.359 right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. 424 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.720 So I have to ask you that there's one scene in Sun and Connor that 425 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:12.000 I there's many, but there's one that I really have to ask you. 426 00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:18.039 There's a stunt and I think I know it's practical, but I have to 427 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.799 ask how the hell you did it, which is the plane dragging the corvette 428 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.680 in the air and smashing into the tower. Yeah, well that does practical, 429 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:32.160 right, Yes, mostly because the thing is that you know, can 430 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:36.319 remember when it was made, there was cg around, but it was very 431 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.200 expensive and it was like, you know, it was only Jurassic Park and 432 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.720 people like that could afford it and or to make it look good. And 433 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:47.240 I was always a you know, devity of doing it for real and in 434 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:52.640 front of the camera and seeing it. And so there's almost no CGI in 435 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.279 the cone. It's all done in front of the camera, either full scale 436 00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.440 or we did do quite old school miniatures. Actually a lot, a lot 437 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.799 of fun. So you know, we did we flew a real plane over 438 00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:08.720 Vegas with smoke pouring out the back of it, and there were endless phone 439 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:12.559 calls to you know, the police of people saying there's a plane crashing over 440 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:18.680 Vegas and it's and it's you know, smoke pouring out of it. So 441 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:22.839 you know, we did things like that for real. And then we actually 442 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.920 did for the you know, hitting the hard Rock that was a massive model. 443 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:33.319 So this beautiful scale model that was probably thirty feet across of this plane 444 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.599 into a you know, a thirty fifty foot version of the hard Rock guitar. 445 00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:42.640 And we built the whole Vegas Strip in miniature on Vaney's Airport, So 446 00:31:44.359 --> 00:31:47.920 you know, we had all the buildings with miniature neons and they're all about, 447 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.200 you know, twelve feet high, and we had radio control cars going 448 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.319 up and down the strip. And then oh, I mean it's absolute, 449 00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:00.039 you know, right for a kid in the sandbox kind of field. And 450 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.039 then a lot of us real We had a plane that actually drove down Vegas 451 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.720 Strip. It had a bus in it. They gut it out a real 452 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:09.240 plane, put a bus in it, and they could actually drive it. 453 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:14.920 Down, you know, Vegas Strip without any wings on it and hit cars 454 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.240 and things like that. And then the final one, the final one was 455 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.079 another player. We had about three real planes, and the final one was 456 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.960 the one that crashed into the Sands Hotel, which you know, it's kind 457 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:30.119 of a well known story, but Sands was going to be blown up, 458 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:35.519 and you know, I originally was going to. I wanted to hit the 459 00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:43.720 casino opposite the one with the volcano, and because I wanted because it had 460 00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:45.680 a big lake, and I wanted to crash the plane into the lake I 461 00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:50.720 had, and then it go underwater. I had a whole underwater sequence worked 462 00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.440 out, and then it would hit the volcano and the volcano would explode, 463 00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:59.559 and it was all going to happen. And then Steve Wynn, who ran 464 00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.799 that at that hotel, showed me round and I saw how the volcano worked, 465 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:07.240 and I sure how the water pumps work. I saw every aspect that 466 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:08.720 we planned it all that, and then he said, just send me the 467 00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:12.519 script, you know, and for the final sign off. So I sent 468 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.119 him the script and then we get a callback and said, oh, you 469 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:20.400 can't crash into our you know, I think this script is too you know, 470 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.279 we're a family organization, because at that time, Vegas was trying to 471 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:29.559 portray itself as you know, as a family resort, and so they didn't 472 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:34.200 you know, the bunch of criminals crashing into the thing was not what their 473 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.079 image wanted to be at that time. So he said, sorry, but 474 00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.400 you know, we can't do it's bad for our image. So suddenly had 475 00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.559 no location. But then I was reading the La Times on a Sunday and 476 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.559 I saw that they were blowing up the Sam's Hotel in a few weeks. 477 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:52.559 So pulled him up at the last minute, said, look, can you 478 00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:57.440 delay blowing up the hotel for a couple of weeks while we build a whole 479 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.799 set in front of it and put a huge plane on a ram and send 480 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.839 it into you into your casino. And they agreed. So, you know, 481 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.159 there was a mad rush to build this rig where a full sized plane 482 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:14.559 was rushed down a ramp into the Sands Hotel, and as we were building 483 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.679 it, they were slowly nibbling away at the back of the casino, knocking 484 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.480 more and more of it down until it was just you know, the front 485 00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:23.639 part left. And we finally got it done in time, and it was 486 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:28.639 a one shot. Yeah, that was one of those classic Hollywood you know. 487 00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:30.280 I couldn't shoot it in parts like you would normally do with an action 488 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:35.639 film because there was one plane and there was one casino. Once that plane 489 00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:38.280 was moving, there was nothing going to stop it. So that's when I 490 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:45.199 had the seventeen cameras all hidden in bushes and inside the plane and inside the 491 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:50.719 casino, and you know, we and you know, the night came and 492 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:54.079 they closed off the strip and five thousand people lined up to watch it, 493 00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:58.920 and they pressed the button, you know, as the sun was coming up, 494 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:02.280 and this thing went down. The fifty ton plane went down the ramp 495 00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:07.960 and the cable that was pulling it snapped at the last minute, and it 496 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:12.760 just stopped on the edge of the ramp, on the ramp, and it 497 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.079 was teetering, and if it went over, it would smash itself to bits. 498 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:20.039 And we couldn't even those they'd buy another airplane, certainly not in that 499 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.599 time or anything. But luckily, it just sort of stopped and teetered on 500 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.039 the edge and didn't go over. So we had to sort of de rig 501 00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.199 de rig all the cameras and come back the next minute and set it all 502 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:35.360 up again, and but you know, most of those things we're done in 503 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.000 camera. That the corvette hitting the town, everything in that sequence is real, 504 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:44.679 apart from the act the wide shot of it being dragged through the air, 505 00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:50.400 because that was kind of aerodynamically impossible. It would have just hung down 506 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:55.440 and that probably crashed the plane or something. So that's the only CG shot 507 00:35:55.639 --> 00:36:00.960 in the whole thing. Everything else is either really in a full size reel 508 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:05.480 or miniatures. That's that's absolutely insane. So I have to ask you. 509 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:07.000 I mean, as directors, you know, we always there's always that one 510 00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.760 day on set that the entire world is coming crashing down around us and we 511 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:15.519 feel like we're never gonna make it. It sounds like every day was like 512 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:17.519 that for you on Connair or in many of your the movies. Is there 513 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:22.400 any any days that stood out at situation where you're like, oh my god, 514 00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:25.719 I don't think we're gonna make it through this day and what was that 515 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:29.000 thing and how did you get over? And it could be on Connair or 516 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.360 any of your films. Yeah, well, I mean the Path and that 517 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:36.480 one thing there that was was but I guess there was, I mean, 518 00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:38.079 it did happen a lot, you know, because we were doing complicated, 519 00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:44.800 fiddlyly stuff that was in camera. We couldn't fix it with CGI or painting 520 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:46.480 out and things. It had to work. And I think there was another 521 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.639 incident on corner I guess which was the fire truck sequence at the end. 522 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:54.800 There was supposed to be in Vegas, but I think Vegas was so sick 523 00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:59.119 of us by that time because we were moving from street to street and blowing 524 00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:01.960 stuff up and rashing, and they said, look, you know, they 525 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.480 sort of stopped us giving us permits basically, and so we had to sort 526 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:14.000 of scuttle back to La and and I had to sort of they do this 527 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:19.119 sequence, this fire truck scenes where you had to hide that it wasn't Vegas 528 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.880 I and I couldn't, as I said, now, you would just paint 529 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.559 a CGI city behind it. So I thought, well, how can I 530 00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:25.119 hide that I'm in La? So I think, well, we'll do it 531 00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:29.400 in the tunnel. So I went to the like the third or fourth Street 532 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:32.480 tunnel, which number is, but in downtown La. Of course, there's 533 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.280 a no tunnel in Vegas at that time. But you know, we've we've 534 00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:37.480 fudged that. We said, okay, this is this is a tunnel, 535 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:42.679 and and I said, we'll have the fire truck, you know, race 536 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.480 through this, and and in the city said, okay, you can have 537 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:53.679 from ten pm two midnight, because in fact, no I think it was 538 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:58.639 it was five p m Till ten pm because of the noise and all that 539 00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.719 something. And so it's basically had five hours to shoot this one big stunt, 540 00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:07.360 which was basically Diamond Dog on the motorbike getting dragged into the standing on 541 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:15.920 the back of the fire truck and Nick Cage's on a police motorbike and he 542 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.840 right into the back of the fire truck, jumps on the fire truck and 543 00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:25.159 the motorbike explodes on the back of the fire truck, taking out Ving Rams 544 00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:30.519 as Diamond Dog. And it was all set up. And the idea was 545 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.000 that by this time we were sort of down from the usual seventeen cameras. 546 00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.119 I only had seven cameras for this because we get to the end of the 547 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.280 shoot and you're starting to run out of money, and and it's it's slightly 548 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:45.119 smaller stunt, but it still was a one off thing, and it was 549 00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:51.239 the fire truck going in the tunnel, the motorbike being dragged into the back 550 00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:53.360 of it on a rig, and then the explosion happening. And I had 551 00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:57.519 seven cameras set up, and of course the cameras get set up, you 552 00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:00.440 know, nice and quickly, they're all in position, but they rig the 553 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:04.920 complicated rig to do this. We can't start ringing until five o'clock so and 554 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.719 we have to be off the street by ten. So the special if X 555 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:09.880 guys are building the rig. They're putting the cables in there, putting the 556 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:15.320 explosions, the explosives in there. They're you know, rigging the bike, 557 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.159 they're rigging the fire truck. The stuntmen are practicing, and it's going. 558 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.440 It's going five o'clock, six o'clock, seven o'clock, eight o'clock, nine 559 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.679 o'clock, and we've got to be off by ten. Every hour, I'm 560 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:29.239 going to the special exs are you ready? Are you ready? And they 561 00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:34.599 said nearly, nearly really and and I swear on no kidding, five to 562 00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.840 ten and we're supposed to be off at ten. He said, okay, 563 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:45.760 we're ready, and and so then all hell breaks loose. So the camera 564 00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:49.760 guys are all over by the coffee truck because they've been standing there, you 565 00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.480 know, for you know, four and a half hours doing nothing. So 566 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.719 they're all eating you know, donuts and coffee. They're not next to their 567 00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:00.960 cameras. And the guy, the guy, the stunt in the fire truck 568 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:06.280 has fallen asleep. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. 569 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:15.159 And now back to the shelf, because you know, he's been sitting in 570 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.719 that truck waiting to go for five hours. And so the ad, the 571 00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:23.639 first assistant don't, picks up the radio and says down the radio because we've 572 00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:27.800 got five minutes to do this. The radio to the guy the stung. 573 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.480 He shouts down the radio, are you ready to go? And the stung 574 00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:36.800 all he hears his go. He waited up, pushed his foot on the 575 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:40.000 accelerator and heads off down. And this thing is is all automatic. So 576 00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:46.039 once that fire truck's rolling, it's also dragging the motorbike that is rigged to 577 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.199 explode when it hits that. There's no stopping it once it's going. So 578 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:55.519 the so I rush over to the monitors and shout the camera guys, you 579 00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:59.400 know it's rolling, it's rolling, you know, go go go. So 580 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:04.119 they all start running from dropping their coffee cups everywhere, running to the cameras, 581 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:09.119 and out of the seven camp out of the seven cameras, some of 582 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:14.280 the like one gets an operator gets there but no focus buller. Another one 583 00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.480 gets the operator and a focus buller. Then there's three cameras that are rigged 584 00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:22.199 on the actual truck and the motorbike that are all rigged to one button, 585 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:28.840 and an assistant runs over, presses that button, and those three cameras go. 586 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:31.480 So I go, okay, I've got three automatic cameras. I can 587 00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:36.920 see those running on my monitor. I've got one camera on a crane that's 588 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.760 that slightly out of focus because there's no camera, there's no focus pulling on 589 00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:44.119 that one. And I've got another guy that has an operator and a focus. 590 00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:46.199 So I've got I've got as four good angles. This is going to 591 00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:49.320 be all right, you know. I'm supposed to have seven, but I'll 592 00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:53.599 settle for four. And this thing is racing down the road and at that 593 00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:59.119 moment, the first assistant runs down the road trying to stop the fire truck 594 00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:04.480 going stop stops stop. So there's the assistant camera on the three cameras that 595 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:07.159 were on one button, here's the words stop and presses the stop button on 596 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:13.920 the three cameras, so I went from four and a half cameras, so 597 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.320 now I'm down to one and a half cameras running. And just as he 598 00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:22.000 does that, it happens that the motorbike hits the fire truck. It explodes, 599 00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:28.480 boom, I've got I've got one shot and one slightly out of focus 600 00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:30.360 shot. And that's what's in the movie, you know, And that's what 601 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:32.599 you have to do. You have to go. You gotta roll, you 602 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.480 gotta roll in it. So it's and I'd love hearing stories like this because 603 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.000 so many, you know, so many young filmmakers coming up, they just 604 00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:44.400 like think, oh, you know, Harleywood is a big budget movie. 605 00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:50.360 Everything's running like a well oil machine. Shit happens at every level all the 606 00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:55.880 time, because filmmaking is one of the most complicated situations, and everything you 607 00:42:55.960 --> 00:43:00.880 do is the first time it's been done in that particular figuration. Yeah, 608 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:04.320 we've all done stunts and shots a bit like that, but it's never been 609 00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.480 done on that street with that amount of equipment and that right, and so 610 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:12.400 it's a sort of handmade. Everything's handmade each time, you know, and 611 00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.719 and you know, you know, and it's it's difficult. So it goes 612 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.800 wrong, you know. So let me ask you. You've I mean, 613 00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:24.639 you've directed so many amazing action movies and action sequences throughout your career. What 614 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:31.039 makes a good action sequence? Like, when you're conceiving the construction of an 615 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:36.239 action sequence, what is what are some key things that you constantly are looking 616 00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:37.960 for when you're building it? Well, yeah, I get asked that a 617 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:42.000 lot by you know, young filmmakers coming up. We want to know because 618 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.920 they watch a lot of action films and it's hard to die, you know, 619 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:49.440 discern what is better about some of than others in some ways, or 620 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.440 you know, is it a bigger explosion, is it the you know, 621 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.239 the you know, the more hits in the fight. But to me, 622 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.440 I was telling them that basically, with an actions it is you've got to 623 00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:04.360 tell a story that's within it's the works within itself. So you have a 624 00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:07.719 whole film that you're telling your story. You're beginning, your million, middle, 625 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:09.320 and your end. But you should do that with every action sequence as 626 00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:14.079 well. So and make sure the audience understands what's supposed to happen in the 627 00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:17.840 action sequence, because I think sometimes people thinks just like if we shake the 628 00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:22.719 camera a lot. If we have a lot of chaos and it just goes 629 00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:24.920 on and on and it's really loud, then that will be satisfying. And 630 00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:28.800 that, to me, is not a satisfying action sequence. You know, 631 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:30.760 you want to have a lot of cause and effect because you've got to understand, 632 00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:35.800 like your hero needs to get from here to there, and these are 633 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.280 the obstacles in the way. And you know, this is the first obstacle 634 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.639 that hits and you know, have you shot this in the way that the 635 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:46.559 audience understands what that obstacle is and then he is clever or physically you know, 636 00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:52.079 has enough prowess to get past that obstacle. But there's another one coming 637 00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:54.559 another, and you you know, do you have three five depending? You 638 00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:00.639 know what kind of sequence is. But to me, the cleverer, you 639 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:02.280 know, the clever of those obstacles, and the cleverer the way that he 640 00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:07.639 overcomes them, the more satisfying it is. But you've got to understand it. 641 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:08.920 That's the thing you've got. The audience has to understand. Oh, 642 00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:14.280 he he was victorious in that moment. Oh but okay, but he's not 643 00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:16.719 going to be in this because I can see why this is difficult and you 644 00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:20.159 know, I think one of the good ones I think I would say for 645 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:28.239 students to watch is is Terminator two. There's some great, great constructor because 646 00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.039 you know, James Cameron is like me, it's a bit nerdy on the 647 00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:37.400 technical stuff and likes, you know, it likes how the physics works of 648 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.239 an action sequence and how the practical side, like what would happen if if 649 00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.599 a truck flipped on its side like this? How far would it slide? 650 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.239 If it's slid and then it at one end of it hits something, how 651 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.320 would it spin? And how would you know what's a cool way to get 652 00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:55.639 out of the way of that thing spinning? And so you can use if 653 00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:00.599 you're a bit nerdy about physics. Action sequences are great because they're all about 654 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.960 cause and effect and you have the sort of emotional journey of how does the 655 00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:07.119 hero overcome it? But you can also have the For me, it's more 656 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:12.480 like you know the mechanics as well as the mcgiver of it. You know, 657 00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:15.719 it's they set up a problem, how do you fix it? But 658 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:19.280 I think you know, if you watch something like you know the sequences in 659 00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:23.599 Terminator too, that's a really good lesson you understand every single thing that happens 660 00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:30.000 in it. Nothing's too you know, obscure, or too fast, or 661 00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:32.800 you don't understand what happened, or it happens for no reason. Just like 662 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.880 there's an arbitrary something arbitrary explodes for no reason. There's something only explodes if 663 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:42.800 it explains how that thing you know, you know, fired into it and 664 00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:45.280 how why did it catch fire? And then when it caught fire, what 665 00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:47.480 did it then do? So to me, if you took out an action 666 00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:52.639 sequence of an action film, you should be able to understand everything that goes 667 00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:53.639 on in it. And it could it could play as a short film. 668 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:55.800 You know, you should be able to take the action sequat and go, 669 00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:00.159 here's here's my two minutes short film. And you know, what do you 670 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.920 think of the story? And you should understand it now. You know, 671 00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:10.159 you also worked on another another film called Expendables two, which, man, 672 00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:14.079 when I heard you were on board for the sequels, like this makes this 673 00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:15.840 makes sense? This makes sense because I know Slide did the first one, 674 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:20.599 and you know, and and I mean social slone's a legend and you know 675 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:23.360 as a writer, as a director, I mean, he's he's a walking 676 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:28.079 legend. How was it? I went to This is the thought that went 677 00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:30.599 through my head when I heard you were on it. I'm like, okay, 678 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:36.440 this makes sense. They need someone like Simon to deal with the testosterone 679 00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:39.719 that's on that set. I mean, you're talking about Van Dam and lung 680 00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:45.719 Grin and Sartzenegger and Willis and and and stay them and all these guys. 681 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:51.800 How did you approach directing that kind of I mean, some of those guys 682 00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.719 are absolutely legends and some of them are just just really big action heroes. 683 00:47:54.920 --> 00:48:00.639 How did you approach because it seems like so massive an undertaking, just dealing 684 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:04.719 with that and then also trying to tell the story and also trying to one 685 00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.599 up the action of the first one and so on a software Yeah, yeah, 686 00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:08.119 well, I mean the first thing was sort of, you know, 687 00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:13.199 getting past the Sly of it all, because because I you know, I 688 00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:15.000 met Sly you know, and had you know, had lunch with him, 689 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.000 and I said, look, you know, are you okay with me taking 690 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:23.000 over this because obviously you know what you're doing, you know, and but 691 00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:25.760 I think the first one nearly killed it. So you know, when you 692 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.639 said, you know, if you're writing it, directing it, starring in 693 00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:35.239 it and you know, it's just a lot to do, and you know, 694 00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:37.880 and he's throwing himself at it full. I think he just didn't want 695 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.639 to go through that again. And he said, no, no, you 696 00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:44.559 know, it's your film. You do what you want. And he you 697 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:46.559 know, so he said, I'm just an actor on this, and so 698 00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:49.480 you know, and I said, look, I don't want to screw up 699 00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:51.400 your franchise. You know, I don't want to. You know, you 700 00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:53.760 set it up the first one and I come in and you know, put 701 00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:58.880 it, you know, in the trash can. So you know, it's 702 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:02.239 probably more pressure than you know, a normal studio higher because you know, 703 00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:07.000 the guy that started it is on the on set every day. But he 704 00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:08.559 was really supportive, you know, and he would come on set and go, 705 00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:10.920 wow, this is great, this is a bit set, this is 706 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:14.480 better than the first one. This is great. And I think he was 707 00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:17.840 so relieved not to have to solve all the problems and not have to you 708 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.199 know, do the hours. And he enjoyed being an actor on it, 709 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:24.679 you know, And so he gave a very relax of the funny performance because 710 00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:29.920 he was enjoying it. And and I think we know, in terms of 711 00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:32.440 all the others. You know, there's definitely a pyramid on set with Sly 712 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:37.000 at the top of it, so you know, I used that kind of 713 00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:42.320 the Sly you know power to you know. So it was never a problem 714 00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:45.400 because if Sly was happy, everyone was happy because you know, they all 715 00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:49.840 look up to him. He is the godfather, you know, of that 716 00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:53.480 world, and so he got he gets a lot of respect for them. 717 00:49:53.679 --> 00:50:00.679 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to 718 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:07.000 the show. And so they were as good as gold, you know, 719 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:13.559 they were. They were like very well behaved and because because Sly, you 720 00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.639 know, he did never had to, but you know, the inference was 721 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:19.280 there that you know, if anybody stepped out of line, they were going 722 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:22.920 to get the Sly slap. But you know, and then you're gonna have 723 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:27.159 you know, Rambo, you know, screaming in your face, and you 724 00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:30.280 know all these other characters Rocky Rocky, Yeah you do you want Rocky and 725 00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:34.800 Rambo shouting at you in your face. So, no, they were, 726 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.360 they were good. And also they were you know, like a lot of 727 00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.559 like like music bands that you know, bands that were big in the eighties 728 00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:45.360 and nineties who were coming back touring now, they're happy to be back because 729 00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:49.480 they probably didn't enjoy it as much as they should have the first time around 730 00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:52.159 because they're so busy trying to be successful and trying to deal with and knew, 731 00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:55.840 what's it like being a movie star and all that stuff. That they 732 00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:00.119 get a second chance to come back and they're going to really enjoy it and 733 00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:04.559 appreciate it because they went through all that once. But the fact to be 734 00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.079 able to do it again, you know, not many people get to do 735 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.559 that in their you know, later years. The thing that was they did 736 00:51:09.559 --> 00:51:13.639 in their youth, that was there, you know, defined them. So 737 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:15.039 they I think, you know, they were having you know, a really 738 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:20.519 good time just to be doing it again, and so it was, you 739 00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:22.840 know, it was fun for them. So yeah, so you've never had 740 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:25.760 an issue because I mean I've heard of other directors who work on sets with 741 00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:34.639 directors who they're directing and just as alone, let alone the person created everything 742 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.159 around it and also a legend and also all this other stuff. So you 743 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:40.280 it sounds like you never had any slide. Slide was just like I don't 744 00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:43.360 want to deal with it, just I just want to do what I do. 745 00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:46.159 When you have fun and it's long time, and hopefully hopefully it was 746 00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:51.119 I was doing a good job and that was maybe hopefully it was he was 747 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:55.559 you know why he was you know, kind and respectful was because he could 748 00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:59.440 see that it was going well. I mean, I think if I'd been 749 00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.199 like, you know, up, I would have heard about it very quickly. 750 00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:08.840 But yeah, and and also I have found I've directed a few yeah 751 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:15.719 directors and producers in the past, and I found actually they're actually very easy 752 00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:22.280 because they know the pain you're going through. They go like, you know, 753 00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:23.840 I'm not going to give this guy a hard time because I know what 754 00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.679 it's like when an actor gives you a hard time. And I know he's 755 00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.559 got fifty other things on his brain this morning, and he's got you know, 756 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.159 budget problems, and he's got he hasn't slept for two months. And 757 00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:38.199 so I've found people that have been behind the camera actually treat you much better 758 00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:40.599 than people who have no idea. And I've done it the same myself when 759 00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:45.480 I've gone in front of the camera for like little cameos or something for other 760 00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:49.840 people's films mine, and I've looked at the camera, and I've looked at 761 00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:52.000 the lights, and I go, oh, my god, how did these 762 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:53.920 actors do it? This is really hard, you know, and you get 763 00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:57.840 and you get, you know, suddenly you you cut them a lot more 764 00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:00.800 slack because you realize how confused using it is to be on the other side 765 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:05.800 of the camera staring at two hundred people and lights and you know, and 766 00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:08.039 you have no idea who's standing behind you or next to you, or it's 767 00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:13.679 very confusing. So I think it goes both ways to it. But I 768 00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:20.719 actually I directed In The General's Daughter. I directed John Frankenheimer, and you 769 00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:24.760 know who was a hero of mine, and it was by sheer chance that 770 00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:30.760 he When I was shooting that film on the Paramount Lot, we were doing 771 00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:35.480 a night We built a giant tank that the Paramount lot. Their whole parking 772 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.800 lot is a tank. So what they do is they tell everyone to not 773 00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.880 park there anymore, and they have a sky drop behind it and you can 774 00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:44.639 actually flood the whole parking lot. And we were a night shoot, so 775 00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:49.239 we built a giant tent over the parking lot and put our you know, 776 00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:53.519 Savannah set in this swamp that we built in there, and John Travolta is 777 00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:57.320 in there having a big fight, you know, and doing water work. 778 00:53:57.599 --> 00:54:00.880 And because there was everybody that visited the Paramount lot for a couple of weeks, 779 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:04.519 they see this giant black tent where they used to park. So all 780 00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:06.760 they would do, they'd come up to ten and they poked their heads through 781 00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:09.840 to see what was going on. So every day there would be different people 782 00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:13.880 poking, and you know, like Robert de Niro's head pokes through. Then 783 00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:17.719 you know, I don't know, like all the you know, famous actors, 784 00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:21.159 producers, everybody wants to know what the hell's going on in this black 785 00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:22.679 tent. So we've got I wish i'd taken a camera, you know, 786 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:28.079 set up a time lapse if everybody's coming through this hole. And anyway, 787 00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:30.800 one day it was John Frankenheimer and he knew Masonwfelt, the producer, so 788 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.400 he came in and had a chat and I was looking at him and he 789 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.320 was and we would and I needed this one part. It was a a 790 00:54:38.679 --> 00:54:43.800 senior general in the army. But it was only one scene. It was 791 00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:46.599 only you know, one and a half page scene. But the guy had 792 00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:51.400 to appear very important and a lot of weight. And it's the sort of 793 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:53.159 thing you do want to call in a favorite. You know, if your 794 00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:57.280 pals with Robert de Niro al Pacino, you go like, can you come 795 00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:00.400 and do me a favor and do one scene because I need your GRAVI tests. 796 00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:04.800 But I was looking at John Frankenheim and this this staturesque guy was like 797 00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:07.320 six foot five or something, and he was very authoritative. And he's one 798 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:13.199 of those old school Hollywood director who's a huge shouter and a big you know 799 00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.679 guy, and he's done all these amazing films. And I thought, well, 800 00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:19.159 I wondered if he would do it, and so I asked him and 801 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.440 he said, yeah, you know, I'd do it. He hasn't really 802 00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:24.079 done any acting, or much acting, I don't think, but he agreed 803 00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:29.920 to do it. And he came on set and he got in the uniform 804 00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:30.840 and you know, had the hair and makeup done. He said, and 805 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:32.880 you know, how do you want to shoot this this page and a half 806 00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:36.760 of dialogue, this long speech. And I said, I really want to 807 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:38.840 just do it all in one shot, so no cutting. He said, 808 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.719 what? No cutting? Oh my god, you know I've got to learn 809 00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:44.079 the whole thing. I said, yeah, if you don't mind, I 810 00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:45.119 don't really want to go cut, cut, cut, you know, it's 811 00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:47.599 really important to be like one shot. And so he said, oh my 812 00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:51.000 god, I've got to go and learn this. And I said to him, 813 00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:53.599 I said, look, you know, I hope you're okay with me 814 00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:58.199 directing you, because you know, this is only my second reform, you 815 00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:00.199 know, yeah, and you've you know, would winning Oscars before I was 816 00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:04.400 born, and you know so. And he said, no, no, 817 00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:06.119 no, it's his great as you know, it's your film, is your 818 00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:07.800 film. And again on the set I was directing me in the seat. 819 00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:09.840 I said, look, I hope you don't mind me saying, but could 820 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:13.840 you just, you know, move over here and do this. He said, 821 00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:15.199 yes, yes, yes, no problem. And he said, gosh, 822 00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:17.039 it's really weird. He said, you know, all I want to 823 00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:21.039 do is please you. I've never been in that position before, you know, 824 00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:25.559 because he's a huge director that everybody wants to please him, and he'd 825 00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:29.880 never been in the position he wanted to please somewhere else. So it's very 826 00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:32.840 sweet. And then you know, great performance as well. That's that's remarkable. 827 00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:37.199 Is there anything that you wish someone would have told you at the beginning 828 00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:40.719 of your career that could have helped you you know that that one's a little 829 00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.639 bit of information. You're like, oh, man, I wish I would 830 00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:46.159 have known this, you know. I mean, there's no secret, you 831 00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:51.559 know, magically. I think it's it's like we're all, you know, 832 00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:55.800 exciting worlds, whether you're you know, a rock star or a secret agent 833 00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:01.280 or you know, making movies. I think is to try and appreciate it 834 00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:07.440 at the time because all those incredible things you do, you're so busy stressing 835 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.360 at the time and trying to It's sometimes it's hard to step back and go, 836 00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:14.039 wow, what we're doing is really cool here, and this is so 837 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:20.039 I think it's to try and enjoy it along the way because you're so busy 838 00:57:20.119 --> 00:57:23.599 being hard on yourself. And I don't know, maybe maybe that's not possible. 839 00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:28.320 Maybe everything would turn out terrible if you did relax and try and enjoy 840 00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:30.519 it. But that's what I would have told myself. It's look, you 841 00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:35.840 know, it's it's probably going to be okay, So why not relax a 842 00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:38.360 bit and enjoy it rather than you know, beating yourself up that you've got 843 00:57:38.360 --> 00:57:43.519 to work harder and harder, and you know, and it's but I haven't 844 00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:45.719 you know, you can't do the experiment the other way and go back and 845 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:47.639 say, like, if you did just kick back a bit and enjoy it, 846 00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:51.239 would it would everything have turned out the same way. I don't know, 847 00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:52.639 Well that's I mean you were saying that it would, you know, 848 00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:55.840 like Schwarznagger and Willis and all these kind of Chuck Norris and all these kind 849 00:57:55.880 --> 00:58:01.079 of guys that came back on unexpendables too, where they just they probably had 850 00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:04.920 a ball because they were probably not stressed. I like, I'm not the 851 00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:07.000 star of this lies dealing with that. I'm just here to have a good 852 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:09.719 time and shoot some things, say some cool lines, and hang out with 853 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:13.840 my friends, you know, smoke some cigars. Yeah, And I mean 854 00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:15.719 I have to say I enjoy directly much more now than I did when I 855 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:20.599 started, because because I do, you know, you have less to prove, 856 00:58:20.679 --> 00:58:24.159 I suppose as you go on right, and and also it's like you've 857 00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:30.000 been through all those sticky situations and you usually get out of it somehow, 858 00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.280 and so there's a you get a lot more confidence with age and experience, 859 00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:38.360 and so I definitely enjoy it now. Rather before it was like a task 860 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:43.559 that had to be achieved and to win the fight and get it done. 861 00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:47.800 Now I can actually enjoy the process and you know, so you know, 862 00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:52.920 it comes with experience and doing it, you know for a while. I 863 00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:55.039 suppose well, I mean you've got more than fifty thousand hours now. I 864 00:58:55.079 --> 00:59:00.840 think the trick is not the you know, not fall out of love with 865 00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.239 it. I do know some people that you know, fallen out of love 866 00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:07.039 with it and are really miserable, you know, and are miserable to be 867 00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:10.599 around on the set because they don't like it anymore. And but you know, 868 00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:14.480 they're sort of wedded to it. But I think if you don't like 869 00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:17.000 it anymore, you should definitely stop doing it. But usually making everybody's life 870 00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:22.000 misery. But I you know, I definitely like it more more I do 871 00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:27.320 it. So it's you know, and I've been and it's and it shows. 872 00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:30.159 It shows in your work that you you know, the movies that you've 873 00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:36.079 stayed consistent since Connor. I mean you've been working every you know, you 874 00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:38.239 pop out your your your output is is pretty good. It's not like you 875 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:40.920 do one movie. You're not at Kubrick. You don't do one movie every 876 00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:45.880 eight or nine years. I mean, you're you're constantly working whether in television 877 00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.119 or in this you're always working, so that's you can tell that you love 878 00:59:49.159 --> 00:59:52.760 what you're doing. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 879 00:59:57.400 --> 01:00:00.559 and now back to the show. Yeah. Yeah, well that would be 880 01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:06.320 really frustratingating. I mean, I'm a huge Kubrick fan, but it would 881 01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:08.280 be really frustrating for me to know that I was only going to do a 882 01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:12.039 film once every five, six, seven, eight years. I would be, 883 01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.280 oh, you know, heartbreaking, because there's only so many films you 884 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:19.679 can make in a lifetime. And you know, sometimes obviously you know, 885 01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:23.639 some are better than others because whatever reason. But you learn something on everyone, 886 01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:28.360 and you know, I think making any film is better than staying at 887 01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:31.679 home. You know, you're absolutely right. Now, I'm gonna ask you 888 01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:35.920 a few questions, ask all of my guests, Ammon, what advice would 889 01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:39.840 you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today. I would just 890 01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:45.400 say, don't turn any opportunity down, you know, don't be too like 891 01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:47.559 I have to make this kind of film. I have to because I you 892 01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:51.280 know, I, as I said, I went through all these different types 893 01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:55.599 of filmmaking, from current affairs to documentaries to drama, to you know, 894 01:00:55.639 --> 01:01:00.960 everything, music, videos, commercials, and I would say, just try 895 01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:04.079 and shoot as much as you can on anything, whether it's on your iPhone 896 01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:07.519 or you know, with friends, and any opportunity a friend says, oh, 897 01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:10.239 you know, I want to be an actor, but I need someone 898 01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:13.840 to shoot me doing something. Go and do it. Don't go nod he's 899 01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:16.400 not very good, or you know, I haven't got time, or I'd 900 01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:21.880 rather do that any opportunity, do it, because any connection you make with 901 01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:25.519 someone else who's also in that world can leap frog to another connection. And 902 01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:31.400 every anything you shoot, it gives you a little bit more experience and a 903 01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:34.519 little bit more like, oh, I know, you know, like I 904 01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:36.480 really want to do sci fi. All I want to do is sci fi. 905 01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:37.480 I'm going to shoot. And then someone said, can you come and 906 01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.800 shoot this little comedy short film for me? And you shoot the comedy? 907 01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:45.599 Go, Actually, I really enjoyed that comedy. Maybe I'll maybe I'll do 908 01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:49.119 some comedy, you know. So I would just say shoot as much and 909 01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:52.079 as often as you can, and don't be too prescuous, don't sit around 910 01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:57.440 for the perfect situation, and you know, and and work on films in 911 01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:00.559 any way you can I mean, I you know, worked in props and 912 01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:06.280 art department and sound and camerasism on other people's films for a day here, 913 01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:09.159 a day there, and it's kind of fun. You get to learn other 914 01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:15.400 people's jobs, You meet other people and and work for free. So they'll 915 01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:17.519 have you, you know, so they'll have you back, or you know, 916 01:02:17.559 --> 01:02:21.159 there'll there's a reason to hire you. It's because you're free, you 917 01:02:21.199 --> 01:02:25.320 know, and just work as much as you can and take every opportunity to 918 01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:30.119 shoot anything you can. What is the lesson? Uh? What what did 919 01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:37.760 you learn from your biggest failure? Oh? Yeah, I mean what I 920 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:45.840 guess what I learned is no failure, it is total. You know. 921 01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:51.199 What I mean is that is that every every disappointment or failure if you want 922 01:02:51.199 --> 01:02:54.880 to call it, can be corrected to a certain extent in some way. 923 01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:59.679 I mean, that's the beautiful thing about filmmaking. Like a sequence, you 924 01:02:59.719 --> 01:03:01.599 know one an angle doesn't work, you cut to another angle. One you 925 01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:06.000 know, an actor doesn't isn't great. You know, in a performance you 926 01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:09.320 can make the performance better through editing. If there's there's always a way. 927 01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:15.079 So I don't think any failure is total. And also, you know, 928 01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:19.840 there's that whole theory that you know, you obviously don't learn anything until you 929 01:03:20.199 --> 01:03:23.440 fail at something you know, and so you shouldn't look at any kind of 930 01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:27.159 failure as a failure. It's more like a you know, a learning experience. 931 01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:30.679 But also none of I don't for me, I don't know, it's 932 01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:32.719 lucky order, but I never treat any failure as a total failure. It's 933 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:37.960 it's always can be, you know, dragged back, and to be a 934 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:43.239 ten percent failure rather than a one hundred percent failure because you can you can 935 01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:46.519 do something to fix most things, you know, situations. Now, what 936 01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:50.039 is the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film 937 01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:55.920 industry or in life. I think it's pacing myself. It's like not rushing. 938 01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:02.159 You know. The hardest thing in filmmaking people don't realize it's time management, 939 01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:08.639 because you can make a fantastic film with unlimited time, and it's time. 940 01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:10.679 It's not even resources. I mean, if you've got a camera, 941 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:14.960 that's basically what you need in the waves were calling the sound. But if 942 01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:18.320 you had unlimited time, you can make the world's greatest film if you've got 943 01:04:18.360 --> 01:04:23.679 the talent. But you know, every film you're on is a time pressure. 944 01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:26.920 It's like you're constantly doing a deal with this stuff. If I if 945 01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:29.639 I take longer on this scene, I've got to take time off that scene 946 01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:31.039 if I you know, if I rush this scene, it's not going to 947 01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:35.320 be makes sense for the story. So I've got to allocate my time, 948 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:40.639 and every minute of a film, you know, a professional film is accounted 949 01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:43.960 for. You know, you're supposed to do a certain amount of work per 950 01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:46.719 day, you know, per hour, and you have to stick to that 951 01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:51.840 plan and that schedule. And that's very hard in an artistic endeavor to be 952 01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:58.880 so dictated to by time management. And that's the that's the hardest thing is 953 01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:04.079 to okay, the discipline of saying I've got it as good as enough because 954 01:05:04.119 --> 01:05:08.159 I've got to get on and get all these other things, when really, 955 01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:11.320 you know, it's very rare that directors in the position where you just can 956 01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:15.920 keep going and keep going and keep going until he's absolutely satisfied, because that's 957 01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:20.039 not a real world situation, and you know that that's hard. But I 958 01:05:20.039 --> 01:05:24.519 mean, yeah, but the opposite is like, don't be panicking about time 959 01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:29.199 or something. So I would is I think I've learned it's not to rush 960 01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:31.400 and take a time because you know you can make a bad decision if you 961 01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:34.559 rush. If you just take a couple more beats, you can make a 962 01:05:34.599 --> 01:05:41.159 better decision. And but it's it's that balance of don't rush, but you're 963 01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:45.639 still got to hit those time you know, deadflins. So you've never so 964 01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:47.400 you've never heard the term, You never heard the sentence ever uttered to you, 965 01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:50.920 Simon, all you have is time and money, have fun. That 966 01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:54.639 would be nice, Yeah, that would be love. I mean, yeah, 967 01:05:54.639 --> 01:05:57.000 but you know I have I do have questions, you know like that. 968 01:05:57.039 --> 01:05:59.480 But you still you know when they're scheduling, whether they say, well, 969 01:05:59.559 --> 01:06:00.960 well, how one would it take you to shoot the scene? And 970 01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:03.880 I go, well, how long will you give me? Because I could 971 01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:06.880 shoot it in two minutes the length of the dialogue, or I could spend 972 01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:12.000 two weeks shooting the most incredible version of this scene with you know, every 973 01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:15.119 conceivable angle and like beautiful lighting and take waiting for the sun to be in 974 01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:18.519 the right spot. I mean, how much will you give me? You 975 01:06:18.519 --> 01:06:20.800 know, I just need as much time as you're willing to give me, 976 01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:24.440 you know, and I'll make it work with what you've got to a certain 977 01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:30.000 extent. And last question, three of your favorite films of all time? 978 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.039 Oh well, I mean there's so many. I hate that question because it's 979 01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:39.000 three as hard to bring down. But I mean I do love, you 980 01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:43.480 know, films that I grew up with, and films at different times in 981 01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:45.119 my life, so you know, sort of in my sort of teens. 982 01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:53.880 There's a film called With Nail and I with Richard E. Grant and Paul 983 01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:59.320 McGann. It's a small comedy about two struggling actors in England and not many 984 01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:00.679 people in America and know it because when I do mention if people go and 985 01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:03.400 I haven't seen that. But in in the UK it's a kind of a 986 01:07:03.480 --> 01:07:08.400 cult you know. I've been on I've been on sets in and the camera 987 01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:12.960 crew will recite lines from the film to you because it's it's a cult film. 988 01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:15.119 But yeah, so I will I try to encourage all Americans to see 989 01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:17.639 this film because it seems to be very well known in England but not in 990 01:07:17.639 --> 01:07:20.760 the States. But it's called With Nail and I. And then films, 991 01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:24.800 you know, I said, different stages of my life and these are not 992 01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:28.079 necessarily you know, great classics. I mean, I love all the big 993 01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:30.239 classics, you know, the David Lean movies and everything like that, but 994 01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:33.280 that you know, everybody does, but films that meant a lot to me. 995 01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:35.920 You know, a different parts of my life with things like you know, 996 01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:40.639 when I was very young, uh would be Chitty Chitty Bang bang. 997 01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:44.760 Yeah, Like the fantasy of that to me is a you know, magical, 998 01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:49.079 magical there's six or seven you know old with me of that would I 999 01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:53.400 thought that was the most magical thing ever, and that would that was the 1000 01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:56.440 sort of thing would get me into filmmaking, is the fantasy because to me, 1001 01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:59.159 filmmaking is taking into another world. And you know, because I have 1002 01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:02.559 to confess, I don't make very realistic films. You know, they are 1003 01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:09.800 you know, they are quite fantasy and larger than life an operatic because I 1004 01:08:09.880 --> 01:08:12.039 kind of want to be taken to another place. I you know, I 1005 01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:15.600 don't necessarily, I mean, you know, I watch other people's very great 1006 01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:21.960 realistic films and love them, but my my world is a bit more ridiculous 1007 01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:26.000 in a way. But you know, and so then you know, and 1008 01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:29.399 then that was you know, my five or six year old me getting into 1009 01:08:29.520 --> 01:08:32.199 film, and then the twelve thirteen year old Me was a film called Swarp 1010 01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:38.640 Melody, another English film that was written by Alan Parker and directed by Warris 1011 01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:44.039 Who's Saying and produced by David Putnam. And it's a It's again. It's 1012 01:08:44.119 --> 01:08:46.880 a small film set in a school in London, in a kind of a 1013 01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:53.600 rough part of London, and it's all sort of actors. There were eleven 1014 01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:57.000 and twelve and it was just my life, you know. So it's the 1015 01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:00.800 first time I went to the movies and didn't see Sames Bond, you know, 1016 01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:04.279 jumping off a cliff for you know, snow at the Seven Dwarves doing 1017 01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:09.079 something. You know, this was my life. It was kids at school 1018 01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:12.840 but very realistically shot, and they're getting up to all sorts of mischief and 1019 01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:16.159 they're really you know, route to adults and they're kind of like but it's 1020 01:09:16.239 --> 01:09:20.680 very sweet and so it's the sweetest soundtracked by the bags, which is not 1021 01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:27.479 the strongest point, not the strongest point, but hey begs a very great 1022 01:09:27.920 --> 01:09:30.479 Yeah, they're great, you know Saturday like fear and all that stuff. 1023 01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:35.079 Yes, but not in this but but but the rest of the film is 1024 01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:38.800 great. So I'd have to say like three films they're not, you know, 1025 01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.079 as I said, the big epics, but they meant that something to 1026 01:09:41.119 --> 01:09:45.000 me at different ages my life, you know, and so that's where they're 1027 01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:47.680 importantly. So when I say favorite and I'm gonna go, I'm talking about 1028 01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:51.159 I'm gonna watch them again now, because I mean you're going, I mean, 1029 01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:54.399 as you were talking, I'm like, what was the film like when 1030 01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:57.239 I was coming up, like an eight, nine, ten years old? 1031 01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:04.640 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to 1032 01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:10.279 the show and the obvious one Star wars Et all those kind of things. 1033 01:10:10.600 --> 01:10:14.439 But there's something like Never Ending Story by Wolf Wolfgang. You look at that 1034 01:10:14.439 --> 01:10:17.239 and you're like, at that moment, you know, that was a very 1035 01:10:17.319 --> 01:10:20.760 powerful movie, you know, to me, and those kind of things, 1036 01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:24.720 it's you know, I've heard, I've heard the greatest. You know. 1037 01:10:24.760 --> 01:10:26.720 Some people are like, oh, I loved Under the Dragon, and I'm 1038 01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:30.159 like, I loved Under the Dragon too, But is that on your top 1039 01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:31.560 three? It's like it is. It meant a lot to me when I 1040 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:35.199 saw it when I was twelve. Things like that. So it doesn't all 1041 01:10:35.199 --> 01:10:40.039 have to be Godfather exactly. I mean, I've watched Godfather, you know, 1042 01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:43.720 I know how many thousands I got it on every format ever made, 1043 01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:46.560 you know, and I still watch it on TV with the commercials when it 1044 01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:49.520 comes on, you know, because we're ridiculous. How why do we do 1045 01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:54.920 that when we could literally just get up grab our blu ray other than And 1046 01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:58.119 that's happened to me multiple times, and I'm like, why am I? 1047 01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:00.720 I mean, it's just too lazy to get up. But it's such a 1048 01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:03.800 good film you don't want to waste that thirty seconds to it. So so 1049 01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:08.640 yeah, those those epics are fantastic. But I think a film that means 1050 01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:12.600 something to you and also that probably led you know, people like you and 1051 01:11:12.640 --> 01:11:15.520 me into the business, you know, means even more because it's you know, 1052 01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:19.600 it's what we ended up doing. So Simon, it has been an 1053 01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:23.600 absolute pleasure and honor talking to you, my friend. I know I can 1054 01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:27.479 talk to you for at least another five or six hours, but I appreciate 1055 01:11:27.520 --> 01:11:30.479 your time, and thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing 1056 01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:34.560 your your knowledge and your experiences with the tribe today and continued success, my 1057 01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:36.840 friend. I can't wait to see your next one. So thank you so 1058 01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:40.159 much, my friend. You're welcome. Love you to talk to you. 1059 01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:45.640 I truly want to thank Simon for coming on the show and sharing his knowledge 1060 01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:48.079 with the tribe. Thank you so so much, Simon. If you want 1061 01:11:48.079 --> 01:11:50.640 to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to 1062 01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:56.319 the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Ford Slash three twenty nine. 1063 01:11:56.359 --> 01:11:59.239 Thank you so much for listening to guys. As always, keep on writing 1064 01:11:59.359 --> 01:12:01.439 no matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the 1065 01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:05.800 Bulletproof Screenwriting podcasts at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.