What's up, y'all? Is Drewsky and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a hilarious new basketball podcast called The Due Zone with Drewsky. Learn the backstories of your favorite balls and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time or no, was the Raptors even started on the topic? Come on, bro, Hid, tell you like I'm Vifty, Taylor Rogues, Asian Wilson and any more. You won't want to miss this. Listen to The Due Zone with Drewsky on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, everyone is Lindsay Rhodes and I've got a new podcast, The NFL road Show, fun and kind of nerdy conversation about the NFL every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Got some amazing guests that are joining me. I'll breaking the huddle with the top stories, previewing games. We'll get you set for the weekend fantasy with our Fantasy Friday episodes, and we'll answer some of your questions as well. So subscribe to The NFL road Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. What is a part of my knocks listeners, I am Dan Favalley coming at you actually with my fantastic co host Adam Bramwell. In just a few seconds, we're gonna be doing our awards picks and Adam will take us through the whole spiel very shortly. I just wanted to introduce what's going to be our Boston Celtics look Ahead guest, which will come after our Awards picks. You can look for the time stamp in the description of this pot or one of the tweets Alex Kungu. You could follow him on Twitter at Kungu Underscore NBA. That's at ku Ngo Underscore NBA does a great job following and covering the Celtics on Twitter and Basketball large. Seriously, I couldn't recommend his Twitter to follow enough, but that's really all I have to say. Because we're gonna get into a normal and store shortly, let's hop to it. Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knox. This is Adam frommel here with my co host Dan Favalle, and the twenty twenty twenty one NBA season is just around the corner. It is so close. We are just over twenty four hours away. We can see it, we can feel it, we can taste it, we are excited for it. We are going to be previewing it via some awards selections today. We're going through all of the NBA's major awards, meaning Executive of the Year, Coach of the Year, six Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Rookie of the Year, Most Improved Player, and MVP. Of course, before we get into that is shout out to our sponsors, bet Online, Dot AG and indeed you'll be hearing from them shortly as always. And then Dan, how's it going today? I'm doing well, Adam, how are you doing? We are, I guess interrupt before you can even answer. It's going to be the regular season when this podcast is released, like the official regular season, or maybe it won't be. No, it won't be, but anyway, regular season basketball is coming. This is being released the day before regular season basketball starts. It really just means because this is being released on a Monday, folks, when there are no games, you should have all the time in the world to listen and download and review and rate and subscribe to this podcast. How are you given listen twice, you know, leave two ratings like whatever. Yeah, juice the numbers, like, get on multiple phones, download the episodes, come on, help us out here. Yeah, we want you to inflate our numbers as much as the Charlotte Hornets are going to inflate LaMelo Balls. Rookie stats. Wow, a lot of Michael Carter Williams stuff going on in there. Could be we'll get to that store pretty soon. How are you doing, though, You're good. I'm pretty good. Yeah, it's it's it's always a fun time when the season is right around the corner, even in this weird condensed offseason where everything has just been packed so close together that all of the projects and podcasts and whatnot that we typically do have been a little bit more stressful than usual. Like I feel like we've just tried to cram so much into this short time period, and like, I hope it's worked. It's just been it's been a lot. I mean, it is definitively not worth perfectly. I think that's been pretty clear. Our Team look Ahead series is going to leak probably into the middle of January. So that's just the status of ill I'm impressed with myself that I cut off the Crystal Basketball grades for NBA Math on Tuesday night and managed to release all of the team's grades by the end of Thursday. I would like to see how many followers you lost on NBA Math for tweeting like a thousand times. It was like it was net neutral. I was following it because I was curious for the same reason, and it definitely went down and went back up, and then went down and went back up. But you know, we needed to give each teams it's time in the spotlight, even if that was about three seconds. Well, the discussion on those rankings will be coming. Those are forthcoming, folks, so you can wait with bated breath, and we promise you won't die whilst you wait. Let's talk some awards though you can. How about you take us through this since you since you mandated the awards order that we were going to talk about these in Well, we did argue about the award order a little bit because we wanted to rank them insofar as we ever argue, yes, right, we wanted to start with the least interesting and finish with MVP because it's MVP. And then Dan decided that he doesn't find Defensive Player of the Year particularly interesting. So even though it's like maybe the second biggest award, I would say, we moved it down in the pecking order, so I'd feel I'd be way more interest in the award if I knew that Frank Nieli keen it was going to play thirty minutes at night. You know, I would be way more interested in the award if it wasn't always given to a big man or a really good versatile wing defender, and it was instead graded like relative to the rest of the position. Like just if if Marcus Smart or Patrick Beverley garnered more serious consideration on a yearly bet on a yearly basis because there's so much better than the rest of the players at that position. That's how I kind of want to see it, just like be a relative award rather than a who provides the most value award. I could see that Marcus Smart would certainly appreciate that, and he deserves this is this is our case for having a best defender award in addition to a defensive player that I would confuse the hell out of so many people. And look, well, it's like the NFL does their their bullshit, like Offensive Player of the Year, Yeah, who cares about NFL awards? Can you name the last five offensive of the year rookies? Exactly, challenge. I'm not prepared for that. Stop just proving my notion that Defensive Player of the Year is uninteresting by the fact that we're spending so much time on talking about it before we're even supposed to talk about it anyway, We're going to start with the least interesting award, which is Executive of the Year. You know, no, no disrespect to those those front office men and women who make the decisions to build these rosters, but like we care about the players a little bit more, I think. Yeah. And as quick background, we're doing this as we're not. I approach it as this is what I think is going to end up deserving the award. I wasn't necessarily predicting who might win. I tried to do that and blend them. But in the case of MVP, like, I feel like my my top choice is very clearly like my second choice makes more sense. And we filled this out with three spots for each award, with the exception of MVP, which we give five because we would you know, we could probably even talk about ten players at that one and just go on Executive of the Year. My ballot went as follows, James Jones of the Phoenix Suns, Sam Presti of the Olahoma City Thunder and Neil O'Shea of the Portland Trailblazers. I feel like two of these guys are not receiving enough due for the offseason. James Jones is one of them. I was not happy with the Jaylon Smith pick. I would have went with Devin Vassel or Tyrese Haliburton there. I'm going to continue to bang the drum that imagine what Haliburton could have become learning under Chris Paul for a couple of seasons, just throw yeah, or playing alongside both of them in Highbridgard lineups. Still you traded for Chris Paul, you signed Jay Crowder, and like the moves you made on the Margins, bringing back Jevon Carter Langston, signing Lanks and Galaway getting each one more. I just really like those even bringing back Saritch, and I'm sure he was part of the decision to play Dario Saritch as a five in the bubble and basically turn him into what feels like a backup center now, So we need to give James Jones is due and look some of it. I'm willing to give him slight benefit of the doubt with regard to his Smith pick because of what Cameron Johnson turned into and we all just destroyed that pick in the moment. Sam Presty's case is obvious to me. He had a trillion first round picks and I think he spotted. Also, the market inefficiency of very few teams are whether you want to say, trying or organically going to be so terrible, and he's leaning into it. There's a chance they're still too good unless they move Hill Areza Horford or sit them. But they've been on that track and I think it was smart. This was a smart time to hit the reset button. And then Neil o'sha was the one that I thought maybe wasn't getting enough credit, and the Blazers had a really good offseason. Just the additions of Derek Jones Junior, Robert Covington makes so much sense. People aren't like high on bringing back Melow, and I guess you could argue the fit is combustible, but I kind of like it. And the fact that this team has so much wing depth now, and then you pick up a Harry Giles, which really makes your front court so much more dynamic. We're talking about once Collins is healthy, you could play him Narkich or Giles at the five, even you know, lineups with Mellow and Giles in the front court where Melo might defend like the five in that we apparently we've seen a little bit of that in the preseason, because Tara Bowen Biggs alerted me to it on Twitter because I asked her to while we record a podcast if it ever happened. I thought these three teams had really nice offseasons. It does seem like the Thunder might be the favorite to win this just because of how they went about their rebuild. But I really think that James Jones and Neil O'Shea and their staff obviously just did a hell of a job this offseason. I was really close to having Mitch cup Check of the of the Charlotte Hornets in my top spot, just because he drafted Grant Riller, But then I decided that that would be like a little bit too home errific, So so my ballots the post Gordon Hayward contract. Maybe yeah, that kind of negated it if if it hadn't been for that deal, cup Check would have been in my number one spot. Let's just say that. But yeah, I had I had James Jones at number one, I had Travis Schlank of the Atlanta Hawks at number two, and I had Sam Presty at number three. You know, my justification for Presty isn't really any different than yours with James Jones. I think that executive of the of the year probably should fo gus more on those moves around the margins than it does, and it tends to so often go to the executive who brings in the marquee star. That is just a franchise altering move, and that's Chris Paul this offseason. Like, I don't think we can over emphasize just how much it does for the culture in Phoenix, which is an organization that hasn't been to the playoffs and roughly forever. In addition to that on court product, this is a really good team and when it is a Western Conference playoff squad, it's going to be obvious how much that Chris Paul acquisition meant. And I think that move alone catapults him into the number one spot, Schlank. I think you just have to give credit to how many moves were made to make the Atlanta Hawks such an improved unit. You know, the big one is either Bogdon, Bogdanovich or Danilo Gallinari, but then you also added Ray Gion, Rondo and Chris Dunne, kept so many pieces in place, made smaller pickups for a guy like Tony, And then I think he'll also receive some credit for the Clint Capella acquisition from last offseason, which should have a significant impact, or from last season. I mean, we should have a significant impact on the Hawks's efficacy on defense, and he didn't play last season, so it's going to feel like that new acquisition. So that's why I had him up at number two. But it was difficult to leave all Shay off my ballot, I will say that much. Yeah, Schlank was tough to leave off too, just because I don't know how I feel we both picked the over for the Hawks win totals, which was around forty two and an eighty two game equivalent. I just don't know. There's like some combustibility with that roster, and I think signing Rondo was like not the best move after you already had Chris Dunne, so that could create some issues, but they're really he has a strong case because they poached I would say two of the top five free agents that were like gettable that we expected or thought maybe could actually change teams. We knew Anthony Davis and brand Ingram weren't going anywhere, so panceling out those guys he was. He was tough to leave off. Though for me too, I wonder if we're going to see John Horst to get any love in this just because of the honest supermacs as well as the Drew holiday trade. Like if Milwaukee does secure another number one seed in the Eastern Conference with Joannas locked up for the foreseeable future, I could see him getting some love as well. That's yeah, that's fair. I don't know that you can get should be able to get that award after what happened with Uganovitch. Someone whether it could have been from the King's side too, but like someone mess that entire process up by letting the information get out that early. Yeah, agreed, twenty twenty has already reshaped how we work and it's almost over businesses across the Globe are challenged to be their most efficient, which means every hire is critical Well. Indeed is here to help. Unlike other sites, Indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring. You only pay for what you need. You can pause your account at any time, and there are no long term contracts. And now Indeed's new way of matching you with candidates instantly delivers a shortlist of quality candidates whose resumes on Indeed match your job criteria that you can contact the moment you sponsor a job making Indeed the only job site that can move as fast as you do. Right now, Indeed is offering our listeners a free seventy five dollars credit to boost your job post, which means more quality candidates will see it and fast. Try Indeed out with a free seventy five dollars credit at indeed dot com slash blue wire. This is their best offer available anywhere. Go right now to indeed dot Com. Slash blue wire. Offers valid through December thirty First terms and conditions apply anyway. Next up is the Coach of the Year Dan. You want to take this one away too, or do you want me to go first on it? Let's rot sate. How about you go first? I would love to go first. In third place, I have Monty Williams of the Phoenix Suns. I think that is, you know, going to be for obvious reasons, just with as I said, we'll justifying the Executive the Year case, like he's the one who's going to be responsible for that on court product, as we're going to see the Sun's again a franchise that hasn't been to the playoffs and roughly forever cement itself as a Western Conference playoff team. Behind Chris Paul, behind Devin Booker, behind DeAndre Aiden, who I'm going to talk about later. So I feel like he is a very obvious choice to at least appear on one of those three spots. I've got Terry Stott to the Portland Trailblazers at number two. Again. As Dan mentioned in the Executive of the Year category, this roster is just so much deeper, so much more talented, and it is going to require a lot of good coaching acumen to make all the pieces work because there are still question marks with so many of the different main contributors, and how are they going to balance creating a good defense around Damian Lillard and c J. McCollum, which is something they've struggled to do at an elite level in the past, but now have those that wing that wing defensive juice to actually make it happen this season. But at number one, I have Rick Carlisle, who is just perennially underrated, and I feel like this is the season where it almost becomes like a pseudo legacy pick that's also deserved just for the work in twenty twenty twenty one, because I think that the Mavericks are just going to exceed even the highest expectations and push at least what close to the number one seat in the Western Conference behind Luca don Chich. And doing that without Christaps Porzingi's available for the whole season, is going or for part of the season, I mean, is going to really earn him some kudos that he should have received so many times the past, because Carlyle is the master at elevating the floor of the roster no matter who the contributor is, like, you know that he's going to be productive if he's in the Mavericks rotation because Carlyle is so good at getting something from everyone in the right way, So with a more talented roster that should compete for one of the top seats in the West. I think this is finally the year that he gets that credit. Yeah, there's what's interesting about Coach of the Years. I know it's always wide open, but I think you could probably throw a coach at random to me any of the thirty, and I could make a fairly strong case for them to win this award this season. Obviously some I'm stronger than others my ballot, and you made fun of me for having ties in third place, but I told y'all was going to break them in real time. Eric Floster in third just the type of coach I feel like could probably win it in any given year. I don't think the Heat were a flash in the pan last year, but I also think they're worse, noticeably worse without Jay Crowder, and I don't know how their front court rotation remains as dynamic. That being said, that only sets the stage to me for him to exceed expectations with the team, Like maybe we're just gonna of a sudden se Duncan Robinson play a bunch of four and or you know small like small ball with other Robinson at the five, like he'll do something weird to make up for it. I had Terry Stops in second place as well. I actually put him first when we made these picks for Bleacher Report, our full time employer. It was just agony choosing between him and what's actually going to be my first place one. I don't have much to add to what you said except for the fact that what the Blazers have done on defense and well, it hasn't always worked. When you look at their standings, like they try and limit like the damage is done by playing this it's like a team friendly defense where it's like kind of tries to de emphasize the weaknesses of everybody. And now they've added one of the best team defenders in the league and Robert Covington, and it just makes so much sense. And then even with Derrick Jones Jr. Being able to fly around there, I don't know that he's the players aren't deserve a bulk with the credit for it, but the way that they've played I think is going to end up suitting this roster really well, which ends up voting well for thoughts. And the other thing would be for me with him is how he juggles the wing rotation because there's so many of them, and then what happens with Mellow because he has to be part of like being upfront and transparent like Damian Lillard was, like Cji McCollum was, like Neilo Shay was in kind of handling that situation. So if he's able to navigate that, I'm betting that he can in good fashion. That's really gonna put his name in there. My actual pick was Monny Williams, who is your third place pick? The Suns are going to be really good and I'm convinced. I don't know if this take is spicy, but I'm convinced that one of them or the Blazers are going to finish top three in the West this season. And maybe I'm overselling the number of games that Chris Paul is gonna play in for Phoenix, and that certainly changes the calculus. But even if Chris Paul misses like fifteen games or something, I feel like the Suns are built to be good. Like without him, I wouldn't be nearly as high and them or necessarily picked them to finish above five hundred. If you take Chris Paul out of this equation. But Devin Booker is so good and you've merely sort of improved the talent around, like having Jay Crowder there. It's just like a really big upgrade for them when you're looking at the wing rotation. I also expect big things from Michael Bridges, so I think the Suns are going to be good enough to put him in that conversation, which is saying a whole lot. Maybe he kind of carries over some goodwill from the bubble because of just how much acclaim the Suns were generating in there, and we saw some of the videos from the behind the scenes. It's we're not there on a day to day basis, and even the Beat reporters like they don't know what's happening at every moment but every moment. But it seems like he really resonates with those players, and that's not something small because that's still a young team. When you're looking at many of the most important players, namely Devin Booker, Mchaal Bridges, and DeAndre Ayton. I think Cam Johnson is thirty four, so he doesn't count, But yeah, that's a one or two could go either way here. For me, I do always just I feel a little wrong picking Coach of the Year each time we do this, because, as you mentioned, we aren't there to see what's happening behind the scenes on a day to day basis. We're not, you know, totally attuned to the strategic shifts and the xs and o's that are being implemented day in and day out. So it always kind of just it feels a little iffy to me to even pick this one, just since it's almost like rewarding the coach whose team exceeded expectations the most, which it's hard to decide who should get credit for that. Yeah, and it's also just bad ening to have to pick from a field that includes so many legitimate possibilities. Yeah. But now we can move to the players sixth man of the year, and it's your turn to go first. So I went with Melo in third, because, look, he averaged over fifteen points and shot better than thirty eight percent from three last year and sort of like had the perfect sixth man impact without being the sixth man for them. There's something to the effect of Ken Mellow's day in rhythm if he's playing fewer minutes off the bench, and I think that's fair, but the Blazers do a better job of It's certainly better than the rocketstead of letting him indulge being mellow, where letting him set up on the block work from mycel But then he's also willing to shoot a bunch of catch and shoot threes. And if he's playing on the second unit, he's going to be able to be probably even more so his normal self because you're not going to have Damian Lillard on the court. You might not have both Heat and CJ McCollum on the court. In those minutes, you're either playing with one or none of them for a lot of your time. If he ends up closing games, that probably bolsters his case. I don't know what that actually does for the Blazer's case of winning those games, just depending on how the lineup is flushed down around him. But I think that this is the year. I'm not going to predict Olympics Melo, but I think this is the year where bringing him off the bench works. Danila Gallanari's runner up for me when we did you know, when I did the Hawks Outlook Pod. It's tough to say whether he'll stay on the bench for the entire season. There's one injuries factor into that. If they trade John Collins, should they be unable to hash out an extension, So there's a little bit of risk there. But Danilo Gallinari is just like one of the best offensive players in the league, and it doesn't really get talked about enough, like how malleable his scoring is at every level, and he's someone who's going to generate his own shot. He can hit a bunch of catch and shoots. Defenses are gonna overreact to his pump fakes because they're convinced that he could score from anywhere, and his availability can be an issue, But that's not really like two big of a deal in six Man of the Year discussions. And this is a stat while I was writing about him that I just found so fascinating. Since twenty twenty twenty fifteen sixteen, he's averaging eighteen point eight points on a forty seven point three free throw attempt rate and at sixty point eight true shooting percentage. There's only one player who's hitting those benchmarks across the same time span. Would you even care to guess who that one player is? James Harden? I hate you it's James Harden, But like, that's that's wild to me. And he just seems like he's perfectly built to play the bench role. And I feel like by coming off the bench, they might be able to move around in a bunch of different positions. Maybe we see him play more backup five than we really expected because on Yeko Kungu, either he's not gonna be ready right away and who knows how long it takes for him to come around, and perhaps they don't want to log John Collins is a backup five in too many minutes. So he's two and first place for me is probably a risk too. Karri Slavert, I think that's gonna end up being his best role in Brooklyn. It puts the ball in his hands more, and he's just he was one of the best off the dribble three point shooters last year, and I know people kind of harp on his efficiency off the catch. It's not good, that's fair. It doesn't matter as much though if he's the sixth man, who'll only you know, most of his minutes when he's coming alongside Kyrie and Katie will be in closing game, so he does have to figure it out. But to put the ball in his hands more and makes sense. And part of that is he's a really good passer, Like there are shots that aren't going to be there if he's not in the game, you know, compared to Kyrie Irving, Like, is he a better playmaker than Kyrie Irving? I don't know. I call him comparable just because table setting isn't necessarily the crux of Kyrie's game. So when Kara Slavert gets moving, he makes some really nice fines. And if he's going to be the first guy off the bench for Brooklyn and he stays healthy, and if you could guarantee me that he stays in that role, he would be my overwhelming favorite to win this award. So I have Karris Lavert in third place for my ballot, and largely for the same reasons that you have. I don't know if he's going to stay in that role. I don't know if he's going to be traded midway through the season, but I was. I was just so blown away by the facilitating improvements that he made throughout this past this past offseason that even though this is largely a scoring centric award, I would say, just based on the history of who's been selected to win six Man of the Year that those passing shops are just going to earn him a lot of love and elevate him up player rankings in general. I'm gonna skip to number one because I had Danilo Gallinari there. It is a risk, as you said, because he could move into the starting lineup, but he's just such a talented scorer, and the Hawks need guys who can create their own shots and who can generate free throw attempts, and he's going to live at the line just like he always does. He's dangerous from all three levels. He has throughout his career. He's come off the bench in sixty career games, and his shooting numbers have been worse in that role. But I think it's telling that he accepted that role as a condition upon coming to Atlanta. Now, they made no secrets that they intended to bring him off the bench at least to start this season. So the fact that he's buying into that role gives me a little bit more confidence. The only discrepancy that I had in my ballot was I had Will Barton as my primary runner up. Again, it's a little bit of a risk because he could supplant Gary Harris in the starting lineup. The Nuggets could also eventually opt to bring Michael Porter Junior off the bench and start Barton at the three. But it's hard to believe how important he is to this team in this organization, given the fact that it went on a Western Conference Finals run in the bubble without him. But he key's so much of what they do on the offensive end with his transition ability, with his ability to create his own shots, and just kind of reek havoc in that half court setting with his physicality is aggressiveness. He gives them another outlet with which they can create on the offensive on the offensive end, and is also a little bit underrated these days on defense. So you know, as as as I said, it's it tends to be a scoring based award, and he's going to put up a lot of points regardless of his role. Yeah. Look, I guess the other part for him would be can he stay healthy, because he's had some healthy he's the past couple of years. But that that's a an awesome question too. Yeah, And so I guess we're assuming that it's Harris and Michael Porter Jr. Starting in Denver. Then if that's yeah, it seems to be a safe bet based on what we're seeing so far and just the overall roster construction. Hey, let's start rotating. Who's going to name the awards that you're gonna go first on this award? This is your baby or the one that at least is more of your baby than mine. Defensive Player of the Year take us three in a ballot, please, I ultimately agree with you where I just I don't think this one is that interesting to talk about because it's the same player as every year. So it's a big award, Like I still think it's the second biggest award that the NBA hands out, but it's just it's inherently disinteresting because it's rehashed every year. So I'll go fairly quickly here. And in third, I have Anthony Davis, who is the fulcrumb behind everything the Los Angeles Lakers do. On the defensive end, they have one of the top defenses the NBA. He is obviously impactful through his sheer block and shot alteration numbers, and is versatile enough to basically guard anyone for a possession at a time. He's a virtual lock to appear near the top of the ballot. Any given year while he's in his prime, and this should be no different. Second place, I have Ben Simmons, who is probably the most versatile defender in the NBA. Like you talk about guys who can guard positions one through five, and he should be at the top of the list. I believe that the ball indexes Christian and Narsu his versatility index. Simmons is always near the top in terms of just the variety of players that he guards, and he doesn't just guard them, he guards them. Well, there's some risk here if he gets moved. You know, he's currently in the middle and I guess this could age poorly if the trade takes place between recording and release, but he's in the middle of trade talks to potentially be moved into James Harden trade to the Houston Rockets. I don't think that would tank his Defensive Player of the Year's stock, just because he is going to be such a game changing defender regardless of where he is. But my number one pick is is a repeat winner here with Janisana Dacumpo. You know, similar reasons as both of the other guys, where he can just do absolutely everything on the defensive end and it feels like the Bucks are taking away a little bit of his offensive responsibilities with the acquisition of Drew Holliday, who can create more offense. So with between him and Chris Middleton, Janis might not have to expend as much energy on the offensive end, which means it's absolutely terrifying to think about what he could do on defense if he's able to channel that injury, that energy into that end of the court. He was already just such a wrecking ball who could guard anyone and just much like the other guys and was just so remarkably impactful night in and night out. And I feel like there's yet another level to his defensive game that he is in a position to reach this year. You're I'm gonna start with Jannis, who was number two on my list, and I agree with himything you said. I'm just curious as if we could see regression from the Bucks on defense overall, just looking at what if Brook Lopez doesn't have the same year, you don't have Wesley Matthews and part and you know Andrew Holiday is like, yeah, he can. He has more positional rains than Eric Blitzoe did. But you're sort of in this situation now where unless you're gonna use Middleton against these number one wing types, there are gonna be matchups where I don't think that you can necessarily use Drew Holiday as that guy. And so Jannis has been as his best when he's just allowed to like float safety, yeah, and gamble and all that. I don't know if he has that same freedom this year. Maybe that doesn't matter. I considered putting him one even more so when you'll hear my pick, just because of how much for risk it is. For three, it was a toss up between Rudy Gobert and Anthony Davis. For me, I went with Anthony Davis. It's not a question of voter fatigue. For me, I don't think that Rudy Gobert is actually going to regress that he was the only reason that the Jazz didn't fall further outside the top ten of defensive efficiency. It's just that he does do a little bit less when you're looking at moving around the court, and I think the level of responsibility matters. And the other thing for me is like I do wonder if the Jazz are good enough defensively to make it work. Having Derrick Favors in the backup five minutes should help. But as you raise your hand, but I don't. Just looking at this, you know, the wing rotation, there's not a lot of athleticism there. That was a problem last year, and then even the backup wing rotation could get a little bit weird. Maybe I end up being way off on this. He's always in contention for the award, but that was my reasoning. But behind not putting him on this ballot, I just wanted to say that I really struggled not to put Gobert because on a per possession basis, he absolutely deserves to be up there. But it's the added depth that the Jazz have for me bringing Derek Favors back and the drafting of Udoka as a bookie who is he's able to f saying they're going to trade him. I'm not saying they're going to trade him. I'm saying they're not going to need to rely on him quite as much this year and get to preserve him for that inevitable playoff run. So I just don't think that he's going to play enough minutes this year. The other player I thought about is Joel Embiid. I just don't know if he's going to play in enough games to make this work. And then if he ends up playing with James Harden, I do think that makes his job a lot harder. I'm not even trying to make a joke there, but but it just does. Going from Ben Simmons to James Harden would be a huge difference. So I've Anthy Dames at number three, And if I could describe his defense in one word, it would just be ubiquitous. He is everywhere at the same time without ever like diverging too far from his actual assignment. Just his length, his disruption. He is so good and a lot of people cited the on off splits for him last year with the Lakers, where they were actually more efficient defensively with him off the court. When you look at the lineups that he was saddled with propping up outside of the starters. That explains a lot of like the murky data, and it's you know, he can He's not gonna be like have those raw room protection numbers, but only because he spends so much time away from it and it's just everywhere, So it wouldn't surprise me if he actually wanted. I just my question would be does he enough games, the Lakers care enough about the regular season to be elite defensively. Those are baseline, low hanging fruit questions, but they're fair, And then Simmons is number one for me. If he gets traded, I don't know how I feel about that. If you put him in Houston, I don't actually want him in Houston. By the way, if they do move him, I hope there's like a third team, is it, you know, Portland or Phoenix that can like kind of get in there and just put him in a better situation. Digressing though, he's the most versatile defender in the NBA right now, and you already talked about like the versatility rating, but he is, like really, some people don't think he could defend the five. That's I would still use him at the five just to test it out. But he can go one through four without missing a beat. And it's not even that. It's if you pick a guard a wing and just say go delete him from the planet, he basically can just do it. It's like, yeah, he conduced a lot of stuff away from the ball, but if you want him to zero win on someone and just take him out of the game plan. Ben Simmons is the defender that could do that. Yes, I'm I'm like being a hyperbolic a little bit, but I'm also not like he's just so good at doing that. So if he stays in Philly is how I would feel really good about this award. And look it lends itself. If he actually doesn't end up on the Rockets, it's probably because Philly's playing pretty damn well, in which case he's probably having an exceptional defensive season, just like he normally does. The weight is finally over. Football is back. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at bet online. Bet Online is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on every possible chance to win this season. From game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props. That Online gives you more options to wager on than anywhere else. You can get in on their season opening bonuses today and start off wagering on wins, division odds, championship futures all day every day. Head to bet online today and take advantage of all the great sign up houses. Don't forget to use promo code blue wire all one word at bet online dot ag that's blue Wire all one word bet online. You're online sports book experts. And so let's move on to a Rookie of the Year, which apparently has to have new names. And it almost feels like we should just skip this award this year because it kind of feels like a Michael Carter Williams year, where like there might not be any true game changing rookies unless you feel differently about one of your top three picks. Look, first of all, I'm just happy that you've been converted to my Rookie of the Year pick so one, however inverted I said this from the beginning. Oh well, I didn't know you said it because we were doing NBA one hundred rankings on the side, and you said, are you putting so and So's Rookie of the Year because he's the only rookie you gave an X score two, So so I'm counting it as I got there first. Fair enough. Uh well, here's a question, and you're gonna hear it on the next segment of this pod, which I talked with Spins about it. But if you had to pick one rookie to be a top one hundred player, this year. Who would it be. I don't think I would. Yeah, we couldn't. We couldn't do it. That's what happened anyway. Yeah, so's no idea. Third for me was Patrick Williams in Chicago. I am it'll be interesting to see what type of volume he shoulders. It does look like they're going to throw him on wings, which could get really ugly defensively. But I think he's gonna end up being better on offense than people believe. And if you know you can get him minutes ample minutes in the front court at the four, that probably means knifing into what Thaddeus Young is doing. Maybe even Otto Porter, or more so than Larry market In. Maybe even look at movie marketing at some point in the season. Should you not agree to an extension, But I think they really want to see he and Wendel Carter Junior play together. I just love the idea of Patrick Williamson. I would throw him at small ball five. I think I'm a sucker for small ball lineups, but I would try that too. So I think he's going to be better defensively than the average rookie, and I think his offense is going to surprise. Some people might be slow motion, but he can do more stuff off the dribble than he was credited with coming into the league. He is one of the rookies that I actually heavily scouted. I'm going with LaMelo Ball for number two, and it was hard enough to put him number one by virtue of the volume he's going to enjoy, especially if Gordon Hayward's going to be dealing with injuries yet again, here's hoping he recovers from a fracture soon. But my whole thing here is like from the highlights I've seen in preseason, because I've been on a preseason blackout while rapping NBA one hundred. His passig is divine and so he's just assist. Numbers alone might throw him up there. My pick was, though, Tyrese Haliburton. I think there's going to be a real role for him in Sacramento even if they don't trade. But he Healed. I don't know that he'll work is went into the starting lineup over him, but I think he'll play a bunch of minutes. I even see scenarios where they play he Buddy Healed and Diaron Fox together and he's like a borderline perfect fit to play beside Fox. He can shoot off the catch, he can also be sort of that secondary creator in minutes without Fox, and I think he's probably going to be close to like he's going to be one of the best defensive rookies, I think, and he just has like real wing defensive range. He was the player, as you know that I wanted to kick the Knicks to take and they did not. And I think that stance is going to age extremely well for me. But that also means the pain is going to age extremely potently for me. And he's my Rookie of the Year pick. I understand. I think LaMelo Ball is the smart, safe choice, but there's something about Haliburton that I just can't quit. I am right there with you on Haliburton, who was also my number one pick for this award. I was similarly disappointed when the Atlanta Hawks did not take him because he would have been such an ideal fit next to Trey Young. And then I was disappointed when the Phoenix Suns didn't take him because he would have gotten a chance to learn from and play next to both Chris Paul and Devin Booker. But Sacramento is a really good landing spot for him. The two way ability is key for any rookie just for carving out minutes, not necessarily in the Rookie of the Year conversation because it does tend to be who put up the most glamorous numbers, but it guarantees him playing time, which is really important in this class, just because that's relatively uncertain for just about every incoming first year player. I had LaMelo ball down at number three. I do think that the Hornets are going to feature him heavily, but the growing the learning curve is going to be steep for him. He's not going to be an efficient shooter shooter. He's going to struggle with turnovers a lot. He's going to lead the rookie class in highlight plays, and I don't know if that's going to be enough to move him up the ballot to that number one spot because it's going to be a struggle. And that's by design in a lot of ways, just because they're committing to him as the future face of the franchise and they're going to feature him right out of the gate. I do have Obe topping at number two, though he might come off the bench for the Knicks. He probably will come off the bench for the Knicks, but he's just such a special offensive talent. But I think he is the safe bet to lead this class in scoring as a first year player, which tends to matter a lot. But yeah, I mean, if you go back and watch him at Dayton, you know led the NCA and dunks was an efficient three point shooter. He's a guy who can create for himself, can play in the pick and roll, can play off the ball. Can't play with Julius Randall because everyone struggles to do that. But aside from that, like he's in good position to put up some big numbers. I guess the Knicks have like put enough non impact veteran count around him doing shure. TIBs will actually play him, But Julius Randold might be like a huge roadblock to his winning Rookie of the Year because Tims will play him so much. That's an interesting thing. That's why I had to throw in a shot though most improved player. I believe it's your turn to go first. Why don't you take us three your picks. I can't believe I'm about to talk about back to back Nicks. That seems like I just been the first time in decades on an Awards podcast. I'm very insured to hear your justification for this, because I think it's an awful pick. I just want to preface before you even get into it. I'm just I'm gonna taint the listeners by saying that I think you're full of shit. I appreciate that, like the honesty is always welcome. But yeah, my number three pick, and I guess I'll let you respond to it right after I attempt to justify it. I suppose was But yeah, I've got RJ. Barrett here. I'm usually very hesitant to pick second year players, but I think that he learned so much from the first season, as much as he's ruggle to shoot the ball efficiently to look like he was comfortable operating within the confines of the knicks broken offense. But I don't know, I just maybe it's just a gut feeling here, but I I see a special offensive talent and watching him in this brief three game preseason sample with which we're working before making those picks, like he's averaging eighteen point seven points, and more importantly, he's finding the right shots. That's without his three pointer falling, which we know can but he's still shooting fifty one point one percent from the field. He's limiting his turnovers despite filling a bigger role. And I see him using what he messed up on during his rookie season, as disastrous as it was for a lofty pick, and really learning from that and becoming a much more competent player who is going to be the centerpiece of the Knicks. Now. I want to make it clear that I think there's a pathway to RJ. Barrett becoming a really good player. I think this pick looks terrible until or unless the Knicks move or stop playing Julius Randall next to RJ. Barrett. It just neuters their spacing because Randall can't be the center in those situations and they don't have these you know, if you want to play next to top and five. But that's that's going to just be the I don't think Randall will finish the season in New York good, but that I think. But I think it's really important that he doesn't even begin the season playing a lot of time next to RJ. Barrett. It's look, I'm just he takes the ball out of his hands at points and then the way that the floor shrinks. So I do think RJ. Barrett has the talent to do it. However, I would argue, even if you get rid of the Julius Randall factor, the high bar that we hold most improved player for when you're going from rookie to sophomore, it doesn't normally feel like a situation where it was, oh, you were kind of whatever during a rookie season and now you're a replacement level or above as an NBA player. It's oh, you were Luca don Chich and then you were year two Luca don Chich type situation. So that would be my argument against it. I think it's a I hope you're right. I think it's a terrible pick. We'll see. That's all I have to respond there. But it's third on your ballot, so let's go through it. Right, It can only get better. Right at number two, and I strongly considered having him at number one. Is og Anubi for the Toronto Raptors. His role is just going to explode this season. He's bringing the ball up the court in preseason and initiating offense. He's being tasked with shooting the ball more both on drives to the rim and cuts off the ball and spot up shots, just things that he wasn't asked to do with frequency while the Raptors still had Sergebak and Marcus all there. He's just I am foreseeing an absolute explosion here in all facets of the game. And he's already one of the more versatile and potent defensive players. So I just I would be shocked if he doesn't finish within the top five of Most Improved Player voting. But at number one, I had a guy who I almost considered like and I didn't, and I wasn't really that close to I almost considered having him on my MVP valot, and that's DeAndre Ayden. And I just I think we are about to see a massive jump from him. We saw throughout last year where he started to look far more engaged and competent on the defensive end. That's only going to continue to look better with more competent pieces around him in Phoenix. He now gets to feast on pick and roll passes from Chris Paul and even beyond that, during the preseason we're showing him, We're seeing him show off new elements of his game, whether it's these these floater or hook these these hook shots around the paint, or even working as a passer more often. That was one of the things he tended to struggle with most last year, was he just he wasn't able to see the court in a way that he could pass teammates open, or if he got doubled down, he couldn't hit that kickout pass. And we're seeing him start to do that already, and I just I see him becoming a complete player who is a no doubt, like fringe superstar by the end of the year. I like that. Pick. I just questioned whether a lot of his improvement could be chalked up to playing beside Chris Paul and Devin Booker. The thing that I think his pathway to doing that would be if they play him in units where neither Paul or Booker are there. I know they're going to stagger them a bunch, as they should, but let's say those like five to seven minutes of game they don't play with each other. Etan's just on there. The other thing is just if his defensive improvement really continues. I know a lot of people talked about how much he improved in space last year. He also at times looked like a legitimate defensive quarterback where he was just making the smart rotations around the rims, providing help at the right time. And so if he continues to do that and like he's an anchor for a son's being like twelve thirteen, like that type of range and defensive efficiency, I think he has a real case. He however, did not make my top three, and my third is Jalen Brown, which I think is going to catch some people off guard because it's almost as bad a pick as Barrett. Why is it bad? Look? He had a case last year average twenty point up from thirteen career higher two point one, a sist shot thirty eight point two percent from three fifty four point three percent on two's. His game is extremely plug and play. He also improved his free throw percentage last year. When you're looking at sort of what he does on offense, like the vast majority of his damage is gonna come you know, in transition and on spot ups. Almost ninety percent of his mad threes last year he came off assists. However, they doubled his pick and roll frequency very quietly last year, and I think they're going up at even more this year because of the Kma Walker injury, because they decided to sign Jeff tu instead of Shaba's Napier or bringing back Brad Wanamaker for some reason. I don't know if he gets that playmaking jump, but I think there's going to be a little bit of it by necessity. And then I could even see his scoring is gonna go up because you lost Gordon Hayward, and then who knows how long it's gonna be until you get Kema Walker back, Like those points have to come from somewhere. I could see Jalalen Brown being in a situation where he's averaging like twenty five, like close to it at Jason Tatum is certainly going to be in that discussion as well, and so if he scores a little bit more continues playing, he's probably their second most valuable defender behind Smart. It depends on how much you value it. Tatum really does off the ball, but I think a lot of Boston's lineups work because of the bigger wings that Jalen Brown can just tackle one on one, so yo if he's still defending like that, and again, his creation ups a little bit and he's scoring the same at the same clipper a little bit higher. If it's a little bit higher, I could see it kind of being like the like a Paul George type situation. Would he wanted so that would be I don't wouldn't compare him to Paul George, who's always been better operating off the dribble, But I think he's going to have the license to do more on offense this year, which boys his case. For me, you thought that was a bad pick, would you like to take the talking stick for a minute. I was just gonna say, just to be clear, I don't actually think it's a bad pick. I just I wanted to see what it was like to insult my co host here, since you rarely give me those opportunities. Was it fun? Did you enjoy it? It's probably a lot better if you haven't enjoy it more if it was like a legitimate criticism, it would have been more fun. I guess, Like, I'm shocked that you didn't have Chris Bouchet in this spot, so like, I guess I can criticize you for that. People are not on the Chris Bouchet train. That dude blocks jumpers like the layup, but the second car. That's fair. I accept that everyone will be at my level by the end of the season. Rest of short My second pick was Micael Bridges, and it's funny that we both had members of the Suns on here. I have him. If we don't do on this podcast all NBA All Defense predictions preseason, we do them like mid season. It just feels like too much of a crapshoot to do them before the season. Michael Bridges is probably would be my pick right now to make all defense, and I see a path to him being more consistent on offense based how last year finished. He's always been a good cutter, but he showed a little bit more consistency hitting his threes and actually taking them as opposed to patching them up. He even busted out like a couple of step backs and pull up threes, and his playmaking on draws is really understated. Those lanes are going to be even more available to him when you go from Ricky Rubio to Chris Paul, who's just a much better shooter. So he's kind of a gamble. And I considered putting Brown ahead of him because I'm not sure he'll have the offensive volume. Looking at his pecking order. But he might just be so good on defense where people just realize like, oh mchal Bridges exists and is really good. I think he works his way into it. And then I had O g Anaobi here basically for all the reasons you said, he might already be the best non Kauai locked in Kawai on ball defender in the NBA, and his three point shooting was up. You know, he shot a good clip from three point range last year and then he put the ball on the floor more than ever. I don't know that he's ever gonna run half court pick and rolls like, I don't know they're gonna take him. He might, they might take him the US Siakam like they've done it with Siam. Why why won't they do it without Anobi whose handle could be like kind of loosey goosey at times. But the Raptor they try shit like I don't know what the Raptors try stuff. So I think he's just gonna have higher volume on offense coupled with his defense. And what it will also help elevate his profile is I do expect the Raptors to be better than anticipated. Again, where most people have them in like five, six, seven range. I don't know that they're going to be number two again. I think they're going to be in the top four. So that's all gonna help his profiles. So there's just not much to add to what you said. The major boon for him is going to be that offensive volume. Though I really wanted to have o g in my number one spot, but it's just I'm just so high on DeAndre Aiden and like potentially becoming like a top fifteen, top twenty player this season. We're also contractually obligated to fit as many SUNS candidates into this exercise as possible apparently, so, but yeah, let's let's move on to MVP, and let's let's switch our structure up a little bit here. Since this is a top five ballots, Let's have you do number five, then I'll do my number five, and then you can do your number four, so on and so forth. Can I shame you for having two number fives at the moment, Like, what's gonna happen here? You'll have to wait and see what happened. Do we need to go ted deep on this award? Do I go off the cuff and name five should we should. The MVP ballot should be ten deep, much like all star rosters should expand yeah, because my take would be I won't spoil it. I'll wait until you say it. Since you did Penzilant and I didn't, Jannis is five for me. Voter fatigue is just I think it's going It wouldn't surprise me if you want three in a row. But I think Lebron would maybe retire if Jannis wins three in a row when he never did. So I vote fatigue is gonna get to him. I don't know. I don't expect him to be any worse, but people are also unless he you know, people are gonna be I don't want to say against him, but based off what's happened in the playoffs now or even his like now, it looked like he had counters because he was comfortable drilling, pulling up into wide open threes even if he wasn't hitting them at an a fishing clip, and then he yes turn around jumpers. They didn't work in the playoffs, and so I think that's gonna stick with people even if they work in the regular season. I don't expect h Honest to be worse and again, I think you could probably everyone here is interchangeable. Like if we went ten deep, I think you can name. I could come up with legitimately ten players who might finish first. I think just after winning it twice, the voting fatigue will be there and maybe he'll dominate more of the defensive Player of the Year discussion. Yeah, I do have Jannis on my ballot, just not in the number five spot. I was so close to putting Devin Booker in my number five spot. I have him listed with a question mark in addition to my actual number five choice. I just I think the Suns are going to elevate so high up the Western Conference standings, and he's as high as I am. On Aiden. I still think Booker is going to be the player who's perceived as the best. And if I didn't think Aiden was going to improve that much, I would have actually put him here. I would have actually put Booker here. I mean, but I do have Jayson Tatum in my number five spot, and I'm just I'm expecting him to get off to an absolutely scorching start. As I've said on previous episodes with with Kemba Walker out, I think this is a chance for Tatum to continue to show off those facilitating improvements that he's made throughout the last season and especially in the playoffs. He's going to have a few triple doubles during the first month of the season, and just he will be working with an advantage throughout the year. But I just I can't elevate him over the four established stars that I have above him. Yeah. The thing with me is I wanted to put in there too. I think if the Suns are good enough for him to be in the discussion, that Chris Paul is going to acounabalize a lot of those votes. Yeah, and Aiden too. No, but carry on, No, I don't. I don't mean Aiden's going to get MVP votes. I mean that he's going to take credit away from Booker. Oh yeah, fair enough, that's yeah. They'll be like, oh, well, look he has a good team around him. And it's like, well, that's kind of sort of the point there, chief right. But number four, number four, I I like the thought, though I have take them on my ballot too. Just a teens he bit, just a teen's he bit higher than you do. Number four for me is Nicole Yokich. Again, I could talk myself into putting him higher. I just don't know if the Nuggets are going to better in the regular season. I see a pathway to it, but I think the storyline might be, Oh, look at Michael And I'm not trying to say this is all narrative, but it's part of it. But look at Michael Porter Junior's growth. Look at Jamal Murray. This is the year that he really puts it like together as an offensive star and is more more consistent. Maybe they are just as good at finishing second, but like, it's a situation where you could be numb to it or again after losing Grant and Craig, unless you trade for another wing, unless you know Will Barton stays healthier, Michael Porter Junior really makes a leap, you could be substantially worse defensively. Just also looking at how old Paul millsapp Is has gotten in a very short amount of time, it seems. And it's funny that I feel like I'm twenty twenty has done that to so many of us though, right, And it's funny that I actively have to criticize him to justify why he's only fourth on the MVP ballot. So the better way to look at that is I wouldn't pick Yoka to win it this year, though it wouldn't surprise me if he did. But I do think he's kind of certified Top five. It feels like they're like eight or nine players who you could very feasibly pick to win it, and Yoka just unquestionably on that list. I actually don't have him in my top five. I feel terrible about that because he deserves to be. But yeah, I mean, like I just I'm not certain that the Nuggets are going to improve during the regular season upon last year's efforts, and that tends to matter. I do have Steph Curry as my number four, and the justification, as tautological as it seems, it's just that he's Steph Curry. Like I think it's important to note that that means that he's coming off a year where he only played in five games due to injury. But that's not like a recurring injury concern. This isn't like him having ankle flare ups or rupturing and achilles or anything like that. It's he had a hand injury. He's back, He's going to be fine. We're already seeing the shooting range in preseason games. And the most important thing about Steph is that he elevates everyone around him. So if he makes Andrew Wiggins better, if he allows Kelly Bray Junior to continue to make further leaps, if Draymond Green looks younger and more engaged, this Warrior's team is going to rise significantly up the standings into the playoff picture, and it's going to be because of Steph. Yeah, look, I think it's important. Let me just go right into my next spot because it's Stephen Perry number three for me, and I don't really have much to add at anything you said. He if he stays healthy, there's no reason that the Warriors aren't going to be a playoff team. I guess the question would be are they going to finish high enough in the standings for him to get that love. I think he would have to be at least fifth like and that would be an outlier season. Not he, but the Warriors. They could definitely get there. Seems from the very little preseason mess why I've watched again, this team is really going to hustle and they might be better defensively than I thought that they were going to be, and just around surround Steph with a healthy Draymond eventually, and I don't think Draymonds drop off from last year is going to be for real. He's thirty, he's not a hundred, and he was all he played in forty one games, forty three games, whatever was. He was banged up like he was five straight finals runs. He had a bunch of different things going on, there were no stakes. I think he'll be better, So I do think the team will be good enough. But this is the year that hopefully we do reappreciate how valuable Stephen Curry is because the Warriors have kind of always been his to carry. It's just been easily eclipsed because they had Kevin Durant, they had peaked Draymond Green, they had lay Tops as well. Now they don't have Clay, they don't have Durant, they probably don't have peak Draymond this if he's healthy again, I expect the Warriors to be good quality and that's going to do wonders for his MVP case. It's I just can't emphasize enough, like how much he just changes the geometry and scope of the court by not even having the ball, but by just being on it. I don't feel like it's that unrealistic to think that if everything goes right for Golden State that it could be a top four team in the West because of Steph, if he is back to that peak MVP level, if Draymond Green is fully motivated, if James Wiseman is able to contribute heavily as a rookie. Of Eric pass Scale and Jordan Pool and Kent Baysmore and brad Wanamaker all provide quality depth. With Steph booing this team, it could very realistically rise that high up. Yeah, again, this is so tough, like there's I feel like there could be. I can't spoil it because you have two picks to go, but there are so many players that I could just talk myself into in this spot more than usual, right, agreed? Yeah, absolutely agreed. Number three, I have Damian Lillard, and I think that he has so much goodwill carrying over from his Bubble MVP and just the scorching heights that he hit for the Portland Trailblazers during that run to the play in game and the first round lost to the Lakers, that it's going to carry over into this season with a much improved roster around him, because as good as dis Blazer's team could be with a healthy use of Nerkisch, with Carmelo Anthony motivated, with Robert Covington and Derek Jones Junior and Gary Trent Junior and everyone else, there's still no question that Lillard is the fulcrum of everything that Portland does, and he is still just so ridiculously talented on the offensive end and beyond that, even with this shortened offseason. He's also one of those guys who seems to bring something new every year, whether it's expanded shooting range, or better pick and roll defense, or just the ability to make those cross court passes the skip passes, Like there's always something new that he brings, and I I feel like he can keep reaching those heights that he had not just in the bubble, but also in February, right before everything shut down. If the regular season had continued uninterrupted by the coronavirus pandemic, I think that Lillard could have worked himself into a higher slot in the MVP balloting. Last season. It arguably was his finest body of work given the breadth of injuries that they had to navigate, and he was tough for me to leave off my top five. He's the one that I left off that I feel most confident could win the award having left him off my time, and I reserve the right to change this top five MVP ballot by opening night if I decide I want to pick Damianillod to win MVP, I reserve. I reserve that right. Number two for me is Oh. The other thing that helps is the Blazers are going to be good this year in my estimation, and so that's if he's in contention for a top four seed with the Blazers, that helps a bunch. Number two for me is Luca don Chich. I think he has the narrative there because KP's going to miss some time, and I think even with KP, Dallas is a one star operation now, and that's situations that we might gravit. Voters will gravitward of gravitate towards. Excuse me, I can't speak apparently as per usual. The other thing is he's just really good, which I think helps as well, and so like what is the next does that help a little bit? Want to be clear, like, well, you need to be good at basketball. I went through this when like going from his rookie to sophomore season. He was so good as a rookie I didn't know what an improved version of him looked like. And then he goes from twenty one points per game to almost twenty nine six assists a game to almost nine assists per game, ups his true shooting percentage by four points, starts finishing through contact, better shot fifty seven point four percent on twos. And we're not talking about him feasting on gimmes at the rim either. What does the next version of Luca Dontrich look like. I'm not even going to begin to hazard that I can fathom it, because it's going to be ridiculous, and the Mavericks are still set up to run everything through him, maybe even more so than the Rockets are this year. If James Harden sticks around, that's not even a knock against him, because that play style can be fit to play with others. But he just makes the game so much easier for everyone else the way he uplifted what was one of the most efficient offenses ever last season. The big thing for him that I think could turn this really his favor is if he's competent in crunch time. A lot of it is he needs help, like better shot creation around him, but he needs to take better shots too, like the step back camp become a crutch for him. And the other thing is like maybe he just hits his step backs slash threes in general at a higher clip. He's at thirty two point one percent for his career, slightly lower than that. I believe on step backs, I forgot to double check. If he hits that at like thirty four thirty five percent, is it it's just over. I'm not picking Dallas to win the title, but like Luka dontach is like fast track to probably best player in the league or most valuable offensive player in the league. He might He's he's close to that level already. I wouldn't say best player in the league, but there's a case to make that he's maybe better than James Harden right now. I don't know that I personally would make it, but it's there. I have troubled disagreeing with anything that you said. And Luca Dontage is not at number two on my ballot. I'll let you draw your own conclusions until we reveal whether he's number one or not in my top five. But my runner up is Jannis. I don't think that he is is going to win three in a row, largely four of those voter for two record reasons. But I do feel compelled to defend him here just because, you know, the idea that he didn't validate how good he was during each of the last two regular seasons in the playoffs is a little bit faulty. During last year's nine game postseason run, he averaged twenty six point seven points, thirteen point eight rebounds, five point seven assists, zero point seven steals, and zero point nine blocks. He shot fifty five point nine percent from the field, he made one point four threes per game, albeit at a thirty two point five percent clip, and he did struggle from the foul line, that's the biggest knock. But he did all that in thirty point eight minutes per game, and I think that's the reason that this narrative that he wasn't able to validate the improvements exists, and it's because Mike Budenholtzer held him back by not playing him more, by insisting on having the depth of the rotation and all that. So I think that as as much as that's going to exist in people's minds. It will quickly be erased when he just dominates again during the regular season with an even better team around him. Yeah, it's maybe I was overestimating what the voter fatigue will be with him. But I do feel like people look at players when they have flaws in the postseason they haven't remedied, like that could end up working against them. He's it wouldn't put again. You could tell me he wins, and I'm not going to be floored. Right number one on my ballot. I don't feel too good about it, but I wanted to take a little bit of a jump. I seem to be lower on the Celtics than the consensus, and so that must mean that Jayson Tatum is gonna go bonkers this season. He is my first place pick. I could kind of see this being a I don't want to compare it. I'm not going to compare it to win Durrant one in twenty thirteen twenty fourteen, But if you look at the season before he actually want it, where his assist total skyrocketed closer to five per game, and that was with him averaging twenty eight points per game. I could see Jayson Tatum being in like a similar territory, maybe without the fifty ninety shooting slash that Kevin Durant had that season. And if the Celtics are going to be two or three in the East, that's going to add to his case. And I think it's possible for them. I would probably have Philly in front of them right now. I might even put the Raptors, but I do think it's possible. And then just the playmaking burden he have to shoulders regardless of what happens with Kemba Walker, but even you know, Kemba Walker is a part of it. I think that's what we're going to see from him. And also I would I don't know if I want to anticipate, but I think we need to accentuate, like how actually valuable he is on defense. Yeah, Marcus Martin Jalalen Brown might be better in a vacuum, but he is just so damned disruptive away from the ball, and he knows not a gamble without getting burned, and so he is very much a high impact two way guy. And if you tack on extra scoring, his escape dribble three is one of the best in the league right now, with you know four to five assists per game, and the Celtics are two or three in the East. That to me gives him almost an airtight case for MVP. He is absolutely going to be in the com versation. I don't know if I would have him that high just because it's it's tricky given Boston's depth and when Kemba Walker does eventually return, how his role is going to shift. But like, I totally get the case. I did. You know, it's boring, it's the consensus pick, it's the betting favorite right now. But I do have Luka don Chich in my number one spot. And you know, as you said when you had him a little bit lower, like we don't really know what the next evolution is going to look like. But he turns twenty two in February. He's the youngest ever top five finisher in MVP voting, and he has further levels to reach. So if I told you that he was going to average like thirty two points, ten rebounds and ten assists this season, like a thirty two point triple double average, because his three ball starts finding finding nylon a little bit more frequently, because he's no longer turning the ball over as he continues to grow accustomed to filling this high volume role. Would you would you blink at that? Would you believe that it's possible? Like? What if I told you that he's going to average like thirty five, eleven and eleven? Like, are we are we still like pushing the limits of imagination here? Or is that somehow realistic given what we've already seen in terms of how good he is and how much he's already improved, Like it feels like unlikely but not necessarily impossible, And I think that speaks for itself. Yeah, the thing distress is he already finished top five on the MVP ballot, the youngest player in NBA history to do so. A lot of that has to do when players started their career. But I don't really think that makes it any less impressive. So you know, you just kind of described in line like what if he has James Harden's MVP season And I don't know that that like that's is it really outside the realm of possibility? I would say no. I mean you even named more scoring like James Harn't averaged thirty his MVP season, which was twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, right, Yeah, thirty nine and six, and like it's Luca Johns is probably going to average more assist and more rebounds during that season. So yeah, that's probably a terrible comparison. It wouldn't shock me at all. The one question before we get out of here, though, who's the player? And we didn't mention Lakers, by the way, and I think you're in the same boat with me that I don't think that they're going to emphasize the regular season enough. Maybe Anthony gave a sense is like an opening and really goes for it. But it's the same thing with the Clippers and with the Nets, because you could make a case for Kevin Durant, for Kyrie Irving, for Kawhi Leonard, for Paul George, for Lebron James, for Anthony Davis. But with all those, they're operating in dual star systems that are going to be either figuring things out or taking it easy during the regular season. And there are so many candidates this year who deserve consideration that I just don't feel comfortable singling out any one of them. I will say we should probably go back and look, when's the last time that neither James Harden, Lebron, James nor Kawhi Leonard finished in the top but there's no way to pick James Harden this year. I'm just saying you cannot make that case right now, even like, yeah, what's the last time Lebron did finish in the top five of MVP voting. I think it was like two thousand and three, that would be my guess. It was, Oh, it was because he mist time in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, so actually, but yeah, but when's the last time all three of them are out? Who's the player that you didn't put in your top five that would be most likely to come to win this award? It's Devin Booker. I would think mine would be Damian Lillard, I think, But I love the faith in Devin Booker here for it. You know that I'm all in on the Suns this year, the Suns and the Blazers. I'm all in on that. There's also a world in which John Morant is that answer. Yeah, is it five years from now? Maybe? Probably, But like, I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that given Jaren Jackson Junior's injury and indefinite estimated time of ri to figure out the bet for the over under because you're assuming that the Grizzlies are going to be good and they're not going to be good. Man, I'm gonna keep coming back to that. We need, we need to figure out this bet that's coming. Do you have any more positive Knicks takes to get off your chest before we get out of here? Uh? No, I've I've given two positive knicks takes on this podcast, which I believe is a twenty twenty record, and I do not feel the need to further that. Fair enough, Thank you all for listening. We said we were gonna get out of here this segment and under an hour. We did about an hour and oh five, so we're ahead of schedule by our standards. Please please, pretty please which Sugar on top? Remember to rate, review and subscribe to us on iTunes Even if you don't use ituneses, just search Hardwood Knox. Throw us that rating right review. It really helps us out. So please do that and definitely make sure that you're subscribing and downloading all our episodes wherever you are consuming your podcasts. Until next time, Lea gave you with the shout out too. What is an Adam's estimation the twenty twenty one NBA champion New York Knicks. Alex, Welcome to what is somehow only your first appearance on the Hardwoo Knox podcast. I have bothered you for other stuff in the past in your dms, but again, welcome to Hardwood Knox. How are you doing tonight? Man? I'm doing well. Thank you for having me. It's about time. I'm a big fan of the show, so it's kind of surreal to be in a show that you actually like to listen to. So I'm very happy to being on. I for one, I'm shocked you'd like to listen to the show, so I really do appreciate it. Even if you're just blowing smoke here, it's gonna make me blush. Are you doing as well as Rudy Gobert though I means two hundred and five million dollars worth of doing really well? Ah? I wish it would take me many lifetimes to be that happy. So we're here to talk Celtics. You are one of the best Celtics follows on Twitter and so I needed to have you on to pick your brain about an offseason that I think was probably more eventful than they were expecting slash hoping for, and almost sort of similar to the previous offseason where that was more eventful than they were probably hoping for. And I kind of have to start with the Hayward stuff and insofar as it was available, and it really does sound like some version of it was, would you have done the rumored framework deal of Turner, McDermott and a first or do you I feel like the Celtics, at least in that situation, they probably didn't view it seems it seems like Milesturner is a good fit. But if they didn't accept that deal, my guess is they just don't view him as someone who uplifts like their contention window. And the last note I wanted to make on that is, I think it's pretty clear like you can't there are jokes being made about stars leaving Boston, and you know, maybe Danny Ainge deserves those kind of trolls, but like that's not a contract that you know from a team perspective that they probably should have a match for Hayward anyway. So it's not so much his departure, it's just it felt like they had the chance to capitalize on it and then didn't. Yes, and I mean, you know, I'll I'll talk with the first part of that, which is about, you know, like the Boston Indiana deal potentially for Turner McDermott in the first Initially I was kind I was interested in it, not so much that I'm a big fan of Turner, but I kind of understood that Boston's version where he would have more of a clear role, which is something that he said he struggled with an Indian and not really knowing where he fits in with the bonuses and whatnot. To Boston, he act kind of has like a clear kind of role as like a rim running pick pick and pop big who you know eventually can maybe develop and so maybe having some type of playmaking duties from the elbow and stuff like that, basically trying to turn them into Al Horford as much as you can. I kind of saw the vision with his game where that was possible. But then at the same time, if the Celtics don't believe that they could develop him into that, I would kind of take their their word for it. So it wasn't necessarily like a thing that I saw as this huge miss opportunity because I mean, a lot of it is about you projecting what somebody is, and I just don't think that they want a project at the big man position. I think they already have one already that they're trying to develop. That's not something that they were looking for. And it just seems like there they kind of have a similar philosophy as you know that there are more erra rockets were big men where especially this last season, where they kind of just felt like, you know, you can get an Aaron Vaine for a mid level why why are you paying anything above that for someone that's not a superstar? And you know, to this point, I think that's what that's kind of what they believe, and they kind of looked at it and thought, Okay, we'd rather just have you know, Tristan Thompson and uh TP. They just generally feel like that was a better allocation of assets. And I kind of don't disagree because I mean, they got to these in Carmen's final starting Daniel Tys, which I don't think anybody would have. Right, that's possible, you know, and that's certainly part of all of it. I think for me, I'm maybe I'm just too too high on milest relative to the consensus, but it feels like he's less of a project and it's just more matter of unlocking his positioning and volume, where it's a you know, don't stand at eighteen feet away from the basket when you don't have the ball, and don't dribble into you know, long these long twos like pop too beyond the entire three point line and and don't pass up these open shots and then maybe they could have you know, you mentioned I'm kind of developing him in a similar vein of Val Horford, like, yeah, maybe that's where he try and groom him if he wants to try and do some stuff from the block, But it feels like he's already there and that it was he looks pretty good or the fit looks a little bit easier to negotiate Indiana now that Sabonis is taking above the break threes, which is something I don't know that I saw coming. But it feels like what's going on Indiana is more like a Wardy fit issue than anything else, and that's why I liked him in Boston. Conversely, I get the sentiment that you said with not wanting to spend too much on Biggs, and then we've seen Miles Turner kind of get swallowed whole by these like benmolts, like these just huge, like bulky bigs, like he's not going to I don't know how much he helps you against Joel and Bead. What I'm then struggling to graph with is, I don't know how I feel about the decision to sign Tristan Thompson's the full mL E in that context, when they did need wing depth, when they didn't need another ball handler, when I don't know how much like Garth he adds going up against a Joel and Bead type or or a BAM type. And again, I feel like the fit is good there, but I'm just wondering if that could have been allocated any better. I say that though, knowing well, then where is that money going to go if not to Tristan Thompson. I think it more so just caught me off guard that if they didn't want Turner, that they then turned around and spent their entire MLI on a big man who doesn't space the floor too. Okay, Yeah, so I think there's there there. There was kind of two parts that responds, one being was Tristan Thompson the best allocation of the Emily and then the other being you know, uh what what could what could they have gotten elsewhere in terms of guards and looked depth and stuff like that. I think the Celtics from a larger extent when when Gordon Hayward actually left and went to Charlotte, I think it actually opened up a different pathway that I've been thinking since the Kyrie disaster that they were going to eventually have to face and they faced head on that year, which is with having the Brooklyn picks, and then also kind of the having this like you know, box contend that turns into kind of a little bit contender, is that you were always balancing two timelines. You were balancing this now team that had Kyrie and Gordon Hayward who thought he was coming into a team where he was going to be the big you know, like the big star to now he's oh him and Kyrie and Horriford about to be in a partnership. And then you have that, and then you have the Jay's and Jason and Jalen Smart and all these picks coming in and these guys are eventually going to clash in terms of you know, like Roles, and I thought eventually what had what had happened was the young players that were may be supposed to be people that are about to be appo brought along slowly w those injuries happened that for his Kyrie year, they took two big they took such a large step that had put them in direct conflict with those winners of Hayward Morris. Those have events and I know it's something I'm getting way off point, but I'm t get back in and what I what I think now the Celtics kind of faith from from that point and characters departure is what direction they were going to go on. Were they going to go into the Jason Tatum era as contenders that are contenders right now that need to be thinking about building a team directly around him, or were they going to go insists as Okay, let's reset a little bit, bring these guys along, whip Tatum and stuff like that and see where it goes from there. And I saw it after the Hayward departure. It kind of made it clear that they have to go straight into building around Tatum and the Jays and they don't have to have that other part of oh, trading all of these guys for an eventual star allah like what they did or KG. So now I think now I think this gets back to your to your answers. Should they have used that Emily on like a guard or wing and something like that. I think they looked at this situation when Hayward and Lutt, they said, Okay, we're gonna see what we have out of our out of Marcus mark Fully as a playmaker and potentially guard, We're gonna see what type of playmaking leaves we can get out of Tatum and Brown. We're gonna see if we can get something from these draft picks that we just drafted. Payden Pritchert, who they would poorly really like and Aaronnie Smith, who's like, you know, thinking about thinking about shooting and stuff like that, as someone that you would potentially you see, like if he hypothetically developed into who we think he can be, that's kind of what they would want on this team. And I think, and then again they have Romeo Lank for the forgotten man because he's always injured unfortunately, And I just think they were turning like, all right, this year, we're gonna see what we have in these kids, we're gonna see, We're gonna see if Romeo can be this three and D guy and we can be this three D guy for us, if Pritcher can become up one of a chief, one of a really good chief, third option point guards, and let's see whatever the hell Jeff Tique has loved to attack and I think that's what got to them not using it on one of those potential vet guard wings and to the big position where it's a little bit more shaky. I don't think that the Celtics view the big position is finding someone that can contain like a Joel and beat or something like that, because truthfully, they've never really been able to contain him the number against Boston or fantastic like he gets his bucket and he gets buckets. I mean, honestly, honestly, the biggest the turn to Joel and beating against the Celtics has just been his own fatigue in his own conditioning. He just runs out his team, honestly. I mean, even in that even even in that first round series in the bubble, like he ate Daniel types completely for lunch, completely dominated him in every which way, and then you know the second half happened, and he just he can't keep it up is when it's basically wouldn't end up happening. And I just think for the Celtics date they value more perimeter defense and having a big that can move on the perimeter more than they value someone that's you know, big enough to just handle one on one matchup. So that that's that's that's why I think they really liked Tristan, even though it should be noted that they did a first offer to Paul will Sap, so I mean that so it's I mean that that in itself, and like they liked Tristan, but it wasn't like he was their first option for the mL E either. I just think they I just think they viewed it as, what what do we do if Daniel Types picks up two thousand in the first quarter? And last year it was they either had to take a huge step defensively with EN's Canter or they opened the Pandora box that is h Robert Williams and see whatever the heck came out of it down that night. And I think having Tristan was more so getting someone that is necessarily going to be like so much better or anything but it's just going to be someone that can do a lot of the defensive things at times, more so that that Daniel Tye does when he's out and being able to being able to never really have that too, could drop off from the from the big man position, and I think that's kind of how they viewed him. I kind of think some of the other stuff, like his playmate, like his you know but tender for playmaking, some of the interesting stuff he showed as like a pig and pop guy and hitting short rollers last year, that they, you know, they see as maybe also like a good bit around their other stars as well. So I don't know if the selection just Thompson for all the Emile was how they valued him financially or just how they thought his fit would you know, raise the game of most of the people around him, just because he's such a good, confident to a piece for them. So it's sort of like them trying to straddle I guess two sides of defense. Where you want someone who's going to be better in space defensively, which is you know that's not going to be Aaron Baines if you look to bring him back, but you also wanted someone yeah, if you're you're trying to retool around Jason Tatum, but you don't want to necessarily bet on even if they're a lot cheaper and an experienced fire where like a Harry Giles would have super interesting for this team too. And so Tristan Thompson, just from my reef, from what you're saying, kind of represents like the middle ground. Yeah I would. Yeah, that's why I feel how does the big man rotation work? Now? Is the expectation? And I say this, I'll preface this with I've been working on a huge player rankings projects, so I have not watched much preseason because I don't want my like rankings to be influenced by watching meaningless basketball. But what does the big man rotation end up looking like for them? And does you know getting Thompson doesn't infer anything about the future of Robert Williams, the third in Boston. Yeah, so in terms of in terms of rotation, you PROBA would have done anything from preseason anyway, just because Tristan didn't play the whole time. That's Titsle. You played in one of the games, and at this stage I think we all over Dane Tysons anyway, I think what I think the Celtics are gonna just have. Eventually, when Tristan gets all the way healthy, I think he's gonna ultimately become the starter. I just think for reasons on and off the court, he didn't come he's not going to come to Boston. He did not come to Boston without a promise not to start. It's just so I think he's going to start. I think Tyson is going to back him up, and then I think Rob is gonna be like kind of like that for short third option, if someone picks up two quick fowls and needs to change of their rotation, if an injury's happened, and you know Tyson's injury prone. Prior to this year, Thompson himself has been injury prone, so the third it's set. The third option maybe sounds like someone doesn't might that doesn't have a promised role, but even during his short and regular season he might. He's going to see himself as the number two and attempts the number one at various points. So it's still kind of a big year for him. It Rob that is, it's also a contract year for him, So I think, you know, Stevens and the Celtics. I think they see where he can be good, but Stevens just there's just certain defensive mistakes that Steven's a big hiring of, like he can like he can live with. For example, Grant Williams getting you know, getting dumped over by Mantras Harold or something in the post, or you know, maybe getting crossed up by a garden some putting up a good contest because he was in the right place, did the right thing, he just wasn't the right result. What he cannot stand is horrible defensive mistakes like making the wrong reads and being way late on rotations, and unfortunately for Timelord, he falls in that category. So I think people saw it a little bit in that, you know, that bubble series against the Raptors where he couldn't be on the court when Serge and Bacco was on the court because he didn't know how to kind of play the cat and mouse game of the pick and roll. He always just picked one option and completly forgot the other assignment. And it was a clear weakness because you know, part of the marketing abroad of the Timelord is he's this big mobile guy who can also be a rim blocker. But if you don't have the defensive field to do to do uh, you know, to know where to be and stuff like that, your mobility is kind of irrelevant ultimately, So I think he has to prove that he can make those he can make those kind of you know, better defensive reads in the moment. And if he does that honestly and just kind of just being the rim runner and then you know, not always casing on the box, I'm always leaving his feet, just kind of being more more more technically sound. He's honestly probably the highest upsot big on the roster if he does that stuff. So and I think they're gonna give him those minutes to show it. But having Thompson and Tice also means that he's on He's not on a big leach, so he kind of has to either kind of put up or shut up in a way. So and and I think that was a message that was that was sent this year, like you're on a contract year. We can definitely move we can definitely move on. But you know you're gonna have a chance, but you're not gonna have this large leach, so you just need to kind of do it and Joe was and it'll be rewarded or you can really be on the bench very easily because they can. They've they've used grant at the five, so I don't think they like that they have Thompson and Tice together that can put up enough minutes and if they really needed another big and emergency, you know, it's not hard to get them. So yeah, yeah, it'll be a big year for Rob. I just think so to kind of answer the question, I don't. I don't think they made a decision on him yet, but they definitely showed that like this is not this is not this is this is a year where you just have to either crew that you can be better or we're very easily just going to move on for me. And I think it's kind of like a test them to see if he passes. Hey. I find him to be a joy to watch though, because he just covers so much ground and it's like I've called a chaotic ground in the past because it feels ungoverned and like sometimes pointless, and you kind of already mentioned that, but he's still just kind of enjoy to watch because of how much ground he can cover. Like I'm not talking about open floor, like just in the set half court, like he can be all over. It's like undisciplined, but it's really fun to watch. Yeah, he is. He is an exciting play. He's like he's the only high flying like threat. I don't remember the last time stuff it's had someone like that. I mean because when we got KG he was not like that. So it's been a while and it's just you kind of see it's And the thing that's interesting too, besides for like the whole athleticism, is that he kind of has like this like he kind of has a really good feel as a passer, which is really interesting because like you kind of you see him flashes like when when he cats the ball in the short roll, like he'll know how to kick it to the corner and read that very quickly, where you kind of hope, like, oh, maybe he can develop something like and so like a clink of pella where he learns how to make those short, short role passes in Houston. But then it's just like it's always just flashes and then the injuries, the inconsistency on the defensive end, it's just always been like if his feel can just maybe catch up. This a little bit to his athleticism, he'd be hard to take off the floor. But it's just it's just like the larger samples I've always, always has been coming back negative right now and he has to just learn how to be more disciplined on the floor if he's gonna be able to do all the exciting things that you know people love to see as well. We've gone almost twenty minutes without mentioning Jayson Tatum, which is either terrible or really impressive. I haven't decided which one yet. He last year like that if it reached a point I think where people like accepted, even if they were skeptical that he was just a superstar, which was right, because there was like a turning point and it was before then and I've seen you mentioned it on Twitter, like even last season when people were harping on the shot selection, like it was always overblown, and then to see him last year just turned into like one of the best off the dribble three point shooters in the league, and there were stretches where he was putting like really good amounts of pressure on the rim. I'm wondering, you know, going into this season, I would pay him as fringe top ten player. It's tough because there's a lot of injured stars coming back, So definitely the top ten to fifteen discussion. Is he going to have a chance to like really make another jump due to the departure of Hayward and Kemba in the sense that, Okay, we've seen what he can really do on defense, particularly away from the ball. We know that he has this off the dribble three you can trust him to really anchor the offense as a scorer. But last year, like there were moments where he showed flashes of making more complicated passes on the move. And now with with Kemba out to start the year and god knows how long in general and hey, we're just gone, is he gonna get an ample opportunity to shoulder more of that playmaking Burton or is that going to be dispersed onto other people because he's already doing so much? Well, I mean, I think, I think publicly they'll say it's a team thing and everyone needs to take a step up, But technically speaking, yes, and I mean he has to be he's he's he's a team's on disputed number one there their number two was down, which generally means there's going to be more usage which are gonna is going to be funnels to him, unless you know, they decide they want more Marcus Smart threes, which I wouldn't expect. So yeah, I mean he's gonna have the ball more so by nature, he's going to be expected to create more for others as well, because the game and shooted every time I saw it in the I thought in the playoffs he did show some some more playmaking ability, just I always thought for me, I didn't see it as that impressive because, like I've been a huge fan of him even from like his high school days. In high school, he played point guard and he used to make these kind of like easy reads, which in a way I thought they were in the bubble because there was zone looks where they were clearly trying to take something away and it was an obvious kind of like first and second read. Those are the type of things he can he can make. What you want to see this year is if he can be the one manipulating the defense as opposed to just taking with the defense against him. Can he can he you know, snake through a snake through a p and r use his eyes to make the big freeze and then create allue of opportunity that way. Is he making those type of reads that you know make Lucas so special, you know, and he's never going to be Luca to that level because there's a reason why there's only one Luca in the world. But can he can he at least be someone that gets you, you know, five six assist a game, and generally, I think because of his pull up three shooting, as you mentioned, the type of defenses that teams are gonna play against him are going to are going to open up startin pass lines where he's gonna fall just fall into the assists from that nature. But if he can take that next step in terms of manipulation, you know, I think the team is going to need it because their depth is not very good. They're gonna kind of need that from him, and I think in a way, I think, yeah, to answer your question, it is going to be expected that he takes more of that lead because I don't know who else on the roster can. Honestly, yeah, there's I feel like sort of a Devin Booker pipe jump in a playmaking department wouldn't be out of the question for him where it's Devin Bookers a lot better at manipulating the defense and a half court. But he's also not like a flashy pastor, Like you wouldn't compare him to a Luca or a Harden or a Simmons. It's just the fact that because he's on the floor and by virtue of him moving and having any type of vision, he's setting up shots that wouldn't otherwise exist. And that feels like something at least from games that I saw later in the year that that I think Tatum's going to be able to do. Yeah, and could we talk about her define bog for a second his game, Like I don't know what year it happened, but I remember I was watching million in his career and he just kind of like you you saw he had more of an isolation capability, like right off the bat, but then like he was still kind of just like a shooter. His whole his whole thing was just shoot first and shoot second, then shoot third, and he made this jump. I don't maybe you maybe you know better better than me, but like he just has such a control over the game now, like he knows when it's his times will attack, He knows when his talms get his teammates involved. He's okay being off ball, being used in different things as a decoy. Like, he's such a complete basketball player. It is such a joy to watch and it makes you so happy that you even brought him up as a comparison to Tatum, because that kid is a ballers baller. But back, but back to Tatum. I just had to give Devin bookersh some love because that's what I love his game. Yeah, someone who covers and likes the Celtics giving Devin Booker love. I never would have guessed that, Like two years ago, when I felt like there was the there was just a little bit of like Booker versus Tatum social media. I don't want to call it a war, but some hostility going back and forth. Oh yeah, it was fun first first it was a Tantam versus Jackson because if you maybe you remembered like after that, after the first year, it was so kind of debatable who would be better because Jackson had that explosion at the end of the year before absolutely imploding his career thereafter. Yeah, talk about someone I missed on. I was very high on the court on Jas Jackson. That did not work out, So yeah, I figured I figured he would. It was it was just like I didn't trust his shooting, and he had he had the he had the forty percent three point shooting, but you could just for me, the looks there were just like, there's set shots, he takes too long against NBA defenses. How's that going to look? And then when he talked in the interviews, he was acting like it was not a problem for him, and that always that always makes me worried, like when players don't see like clear issues that might present themselves at the NBA level. And I mean, I still thought he was gonna be better than this. I'm not expecting to be League minimum contracts with the Pistons. It's it's it's it was not good for you, Quel, But yeah, I like I like I like them with Booker and us us in the value of the suns, you know, maybe you can have some reconciliation. I think the point you were speaking out with Booker and there people who cover Phoenix could do this way better than I can. I just feel like the way his in between game ended up clicking and he was able to add like some you know, different changes of pace to his game. Like when he was inside the arc, it felt like twenty seventeen eighteen, maybe closer twenty eighteen the year just in general, that's when it really just started coming together for him. And I think what we've also just seen is what happens when someone is young and people are viewing him like through this lens where he's supposed to be older. And then two, what happens when you take good players who were surrounded by very little NBA talent and then give them actual NBA talent to work with, which is what I think we've seen basically over the past three years, but definitely over the past two with him. The other player wanted to ask about Boston, Well, I want to ask a lot of players on Boston. Does any of this additional playmaking void fall to Jaalen Brown? They upped his pick and roll usage last year, though it was still just negligible usage overall. It was just compared to the season before, I think it more than doubled or was close to doubling. And he did seem later in the year like where he had less tunnel vision coming around like like ball screens. It looked like there was just a better feel there and my one off base on this and too if I'm not, do you think he has like a playmaker's bump in him as well? Just as we sort of I wouldn't project it to be anywhere near what I expect Tatum to be, but just where he can initiate and get you into your offense in the half court. So I definitely think Jaylen Brown is going to have a playmaking bump, but I don't think it's gonna come from using him in those type of like playmaking roles as if like Tat as a Tatum, how we expect him to be using heavy pick and roll schemes and of that nature. I think for Jalen his playmaking bump has to come from after after that first step, after he gets by that guy when he's going downhill, is he making the extra past enough? I think he gets pre set a lot of times, like he pre decides before he makes his move what he's gonna do, and he does not. He does not. He has not improvised very much like away from that, and I think this year, if the Celtics are gonna have a chance, while Kemba's out to be like very good, he needs to be able to be able to get by his guy and be able to kick out the shooters more effectively to you know, not get himself stuck in sucking the whole. And if he can make those type of reads just generally speaking, like driving kicks is how it boils down too, those are gonna be where he can make his play making bumps and if he can, if he can do that, I think between Smart and Tatum and even Tigue and a little bit of Thompson, I think they can kind of be an okay passing team with that. But if he's kind of still kind of like the overall kind of mostly tunnel bitch and would flashes the passing here and there, the Celtic's offense is gonna have a lot of very clunky moments without Kemba And sort of to that point, is this is they're gonna come a time or is it you know, right away where they're gonna maybe be more reliant than usually expected on like one of their younger guards just because they're you know, even aside just with even with Kemba Walker, I feel like this rotation is between seven and eight like guaranteed NBA players deep and like none of them the ones that are coming off the bench behind the starting lineup are like guaranteed to add a ton of playmaking. And I would throw Jeff Tegue into there. He just feels like his his aging curse feels like it's been stark like ever since he went to Minnesota. And so are they gonna give you know, the traumat Waders, the Peyton Pritchard, the Aaron Nasmith, Like, are those guys gonna have opportunities this year maybe even at Langford if he's ever healthy or do you not see them, you know, veering into that direction because they still do have these immediate expectations and you know there's a couple of rookies in there, and then there's just generally guys, even with Carson Edwards, like they just don't have a ton of NBA experience. Yeah, So just to kind of laid out for the viewers to Warren's celt expands, I think you're right that they have about seven eight guys because they're probably gonna, you know, without Kemba, you're obvious starting Marcus Smart, Jalen and Jason Maybe they've been starting Davonte Green in the preseason. They started everyone, so let's just say for the sake of argument, they start Davonte Green, and then they have either Tristan or Tye right, and then so that's the five. Those are five guys, four of them I trust, I don't trust Javonte Green. And then after that, the guys who trops off the bench are gonna be you know, Tice for one, when Marcus gets there, maybe Marcus Tiague. You probably trust gret Williams. So that means you're problem. But you still need like one or two more guys if you want to be a serious contender, which means that they do as you said, they're gonna need at least one or two of Pritchard, Langford, Nay Smiths, oh July or Devonte to become dependable. So and they are going to get opportunities to do that just because they are so thin. And yeah, I mean, they're gonna have their chances. I mean, especially early on in the year, because the team has been looking like one of those teams that still have them fully recovered from the indi Intern conference six weeks ago. So they're gonna get a lot of those young guys are probably gonna get a lot more minutes early on in the year and whoever it takes advantage of those opportunities. Unfortunately, Rolemeo is not going to be there for the early part, so he's gonna miss those in the shore opportunities to get some But yeah, they're gonna need one or two of those guys to really step up and become not necessarily like like very good, but they need to become trustable role players, right Like, if if Javontay Green can somehow turn himself into like like a Royce O'Neill type of player like that, I'd be huge. If Robert Williams can become a dependable big that, I'd be huge. But it's still up in the air right now, and a lot of these guys are unproven, which is why I definitely understand some of the sentence of them going in, because we just really don't know how it could turn out. Do you particularly like any of the young one or two of the young guards more than most? I will say I was. I was a bigger fan of Nate Smith than just what I generally saw on you know, Twitter, But that's its own, you know story. I just think Nate Smith, just because I generally don't I generally don't think I'm one of those guys that doesn't believe like picking for fit and picking for like talent are very different, because I feel like if a guy fits of what you're trying to do, and he fits a particular need, you're going to give him more opportunity, therefore like raising his chances of being able to reach his outcomes. So I kind of think they still kind of go hand in hand. And I thought nice Smith was a good pick just because they're a team that des really needs just guys who can straight up shoot, and especially a movement shooter, guy who can just you know, catch and pull like they needed something. They don't have that element at all, and they need that element. So I think that by nature, that's going to get him more opportunities. It's just a matter of whether he can, you know, because he's been out of basketball for a long time, not just you know, from the boat from you know, COVID and all that, but he was injured early in the year. So he's so tough for rookies because they already weren't gonna be playing since February. But if you missed a bunch of tis, like looking at James Wisemen in Golden State, Like, how long has been since he played like real organized competitive basketball, Yeah, exactly. So those for those guys like and even in the preseason a little bit, it looked like just right now, the game might be too faster him. Now we've seen, you know, we've I've seen guys like Jalen Brown looked like that for the first half his rookie year, and by the second half they were trusting him to defend like Bradley Bill in the playoffs. So that stuff, you know, that stuff can can click. When it does click and it clicks. Funny sentence, but I hope I still what that meant. Yeah, like it can happen. But right now, you know, I'm I'm higher on him. I just feel like if he collects, like he's exactly the type of complimentary player that you want alongside than Jayson Kembo. Is Grant Williams just like the backup four for this team or do you think that there's going to be more matchup based decisions being made where maybe it's oh delay on some nights. Yeah, I think right now, Grant Williams thoroughly has beaten it, has beaten out O Delay for a spot. I just think because of the fact that he can play a lot of different positions to a lot of things that I think right now they're probably going to go to Grant as long with the continuency being he has to not be a non shooter. He has to be able to continue to, you know, shoot, to be at least an average shooter for this to absolutely make sense. But if he's doing that, I just think they're going to have him as the backup for They're going to have him play at the five. Sometimes he might even be paid aired with the with the Thompson with the rob like that when they want to go into the bigger And because of the fact that I think it's not only just I think he has more to his game than than what he's been showing so far, because right now he looks kind of just kind of like a very stationary, like limited skill guy, but he was a He's a guy who can you know, kind of make plays out of the pick and roll and be a role kind of oh like movement playmaker that I think as he gets more comes to playing a different positions, he'll start showing more of that. So I think, yeah, he'll he might start the years to back up for but I think his role is going to coolly developed to like just whatever the team needs type of thing, like the way Marcus Smart's role developed in Boston and he book He shot the ball well from three during the playoffs two, which I think was huge. Usually led the playoffs only seventeen attempts, but ten of seventeen fifty eight point eight percent, the highest three point percentage in the playoffs among players who attempted at least eight. So maybe that's a sign of what he could do. Is there who's going to be stretched, Like when you're looking at and I'm assuming it's gonna be just one of like the young guys, Like who do you consider a backup wing on this team? Because they really don't have one, And if you look at it's funny if you look at their death charts like around like internet, you're going on road O World if it's ESPN or something else. I know, positions don't matter as much, but like if I see the old Jola listed in the three spot, it just gives me the case a little bit of the giggles because they just really don't have a backup wing. It could be smart if he wasn't going to be a member of the starting lineup because he's basically position lists at sixty three, which is just wild and awesome. But who do you see as being like who's getting backup like three or or you know, hybrid like like like who's just their primary backup wing. I'm rambling through this because I don't even have an answer to fathom myself. Yeah, I don't know, because I mean I think they would, they would probably consider I don't know. I don't I would think because Brad has said they really just kind of go by guards make bigs. I don't know how they would. They can, and they can certain God's futal positions, So I mean, honestly, it's it's an interesting question because it could you could say maybe it maybe it's maybe it is end up being shunny. Maybe it's Langford when he gets gets healthy. Maybe it's Nate Smiths. Yeah just by size he's six sex right, Yeah, maybe It'shavante. But it's just it's weird because you know they have Tatum who I guess depending on what to cause position, Like the way the way he's being used is like such a heavy pick and roll guy. He almost has a has a role type as like a guard, but he's six eight ten whatever and he's you know, he's he defends wings. Uh, they consider jail and a guard, but he defends boards routinely for the team. So for them, I just I think it honestly doesn't matter, but it does. It does bring up a point that you know, they do probably need another like that piece on the perimeter, just a guy that they can live the trust, which is why I hope and maybe this is going to get into somebody talk about earlier the trade. With the trade exception, they're able to, you know, bring someone in if one of the if some of these like young guys just don't show anything. Yeah, twenty point five million dollars trade exception and a lot of these just tend to expire without being used. It felt like Golden State using it to get Kelly Bridge Jr. Was an anomaly with this team though you look at it, they have plenty of room under the hardcap, and I feel like they have plenty of needs and could have even more depending on what Keimba looks like this year. So would you anticipate or hope that they would use it and have you identified, like if you got to choose one area of need, because it feels like you could go like backup playmaker, you could just go wing. Is there a player or just an archetype and idea of a player that you would gravitate towards. If they are looking to again use this, well, I mean I know for me I would probably be. It really depends, which why I don't see them using it very early, because you want to see what you have in your team, what type of team this is for sure, because if Jason Tatum is like like an MVP candidate, the team has not looked like they lost a step even without Kemba, and you have Kemba coming back and stuff like that, and you're like, oh, we just need this one piece. You have to go for it. You have to use it mid season. And I mean a team I've been looking at this, Okay, see that had George Hill. I don't think Trevor Rees has been bought out, but I mean if he's not bought out, I mean you could literally I think you can fit both of them Yep and Epe just like that and maybe give something little back and then you know, you get those two pieces and now it's like you're a business. But if it's but you know, if the team just kind of looks middling, and you know, you need probably another much bigger piece to really actually make any tential moving forward. The second option is maybe maybe you wait till after the year, because you know, right now they have a hard cap on them, so they can't really use the full twenty eight milk during this season. But that's a blow to anyone who wants them to go after an auto porter. But I don't think they should be going after autoporter anyone. I So there you go. Yeah, but if you get to after the season, I don't know, like you might be able to be a sign and trade candidate where there's a lot more kind of like free agents out there. It could be a tool for you to potentially be a player in free agency without having any cap space, and you know, potentially, what that twenty eight million if you're able to maybe get a sign and trade or maybe not the top tier guys that are still left, but maybe that maybe that second or tier maybe second or third tier, and you probably you know, you can maybe get a bigger name that way, or you could or you could do something like go for Buddy Heel or something like that, or like that level of player as well. So I think to answer your question, it's just going to depend on how close the team looks to contending, And I think it'll be more patient if they're further. If he starts seeing them make moves you know, during the mid season, it means that, you know, like they really think they have a winner this year. Yeah. The good thing about I would probably advocate like using some of it, like split it up, and then what you were saying over the off season, like it's a lot easier to do like those non simultaneous trades because like I think part of whatever package Boston offers, the appeal is going to be, like we can give you like one of these young guards too, and so like just because of the roster spots and since they can't actually be traded with the player with the trade traded player exception, that it gets harder to do something like that during the regular season, and so you can make a small move, yeah, if a reason becomes available. You know, I know, Hill's not a wing, JJ Reddick's not a wing, but if like there's something you can do there, those are guys that I feel like could help this team the one that I've thought about, and I'm curious what you think. And I talked about this on a previous podcast. It doesn't really give you wing depth positionally on offense, but defense I think it does while also making you better suited to go up against And I know you said this wasn't their main concern, but like someone who could defend Jannis and bam Adebayo and Joel Embiid. Aaron Gordon is kind of the low key name I've circled, and that's again it would be complex to get there because I think you need actual other players thrown them there. It's not just going to be the created the tpe and then like you know, a future pick or something. But I really like his potential fit on this squad, especially given like how thin they are at the three four. And I wouldn't I say he's more of a four or five than a three four, but he can defend three four or five. I love the Aaron Gordon thing. My my concern though, is the is Aaron Gordon himself and where how he sees himself as a player, because I feel like all of us like basketball nerds see how he can be such how he how his most optimized role is how effective he can be in that, And it's just unclear he sees that or if he or if he sees himself as someone that could be that should be considered, you know, in the in the star tier and someone that wants to be focused on more like you know, self creating and not being seen as a role. So if you could probably if we could promise that he's coming in and accepting kind of like the role that we envisioned him as that kind of like you know, super versatile defensive piece that can you know, space the floor for you but also provide provide you a little bit of creation as well and spurs and stuff like that, you know you the Celtics would definitely be all for that, and I could see them giving up something probably not probably not any of like the top like Kemba Smart or the Jays, but you can probably get like you can probably get anything else from there, mostly from like to get Eric Boorden. So that's that's that's probably like the highest ceiling option. I would say it'd be interest to see what and just still leads you with eight figures worth of the TP left older because he doesn't really make a ton of money. I know, and I mean I know they loved him in the draft too, and they got that was the market smart draft that I think they actually I think I think he was number one on therefore that I don't eer. Yeah, so there's obviously the other moving parts there where he was someone I looked at. I do think that he's he's becoming. You're right just about the self creation. I'd be curious to see what just what he looks like on a team that's good and generates better spacing, and he's become the last season, like Orlando really unlocked his passing and I don't know like how much that would be feasible to tap into in Boston, but like he was running pick and rolls and he was passing like out of out of the block, So like there's stuff he could do. And again, if you give him higher quality looks, he's gone stretches, you know where it's like half the season, more than half the season where we're shooting thirty six percent or so on catch and shoot threes. So that may be something to look to. But yeah, I think the offensive fit if He's not going to just be a play finisher, you know, floor runner guy's gonna get put backs or come off the pick and roll. Uh, if he really wants to handle the ball, I could see that being an awkward fit to where you don't want to you know, Orlando's not just gonna dump him, so to give up actual value to get him would definitely be dicey. I did want to excuse me as I'm okay. Did want to ask you really quickly. Were you surprised that they let brad Wanamaker go? Was that like sort of a decision of you know what, Jeff Tigue is Automaker is probably better shooter at this point, I find him more interesting like overall at the same time, like he's Jeff t might just be the better game manager, you know, playmaker. Is that like the conscious decision they basically made. Well, I was a person was necessating love I want to maker, and I was I was actually surprised I to let him go because usually teams when they have those like fines from like the overseas guys and stuff like that, they generally want to keep keep them. So I thought, you know, based on the costs and the available options out there. I thought he was gonna be he was gonna be returning again. And I know you made the point about, you know, not no depth on the wings and stuff like that, but a guy like Wanta Maker, they were using him to defend wins because even though he's you know, height wise, what's six three six four, he had that you know, no thick frame, and he had a long wins fan about a six nine wins fan. So you know, they don't mind using guys like that because Stevens with I think, you know, he likes having ball handlers on the court. So for them, they would they would use they would use a six six or you sik before got the big wingspan on the wing like that, even if they got to our chill would be It's kind of similar. So from that point of view, I was like they lost a lot of defensive versatility letting him go fatigue. But I do think your point on te kind of being the better game manager, kind of being a better like playmaker overall shooter, more consistent scorer, I think he checks all those boxes. I preseason, is any indication he was definitely stealing money from the Hawks in Minnesota because he looks much quicker. He looks much more explosive than I remember. He's probably he's probably was like one of the few bright spots for them, So I mean, if he carries that over and just you know, he's just a little bit of what he was, you know before he went to bad teams, i'd see, I see. I do understand that, even though I thought they were going to keep on to make it for sure. I know a lot of this will be matchup based, especially when we're looking up front at the five, But what do you see as their best or most common closing line up in close games. I think it's gonna be just the top the guys the first, the Kemba smart, Jalen and Jason and I just then they're gonna go Thompson. I think ultimately it's kind of like the best balance. You don't want to go too small because Grant really doesn't. It's a weird thing with like the underside guys that played fives, because if you can't really it's not I don't know if there's a way you can really track it outside of I guess you can buy rim rim foodical attempts, but there's there's a difference. Like Bamon Bamon Grant Wills are kind of the same size, but when Bam is when Bam is around the paint, he has a de turn effects. See, people don't want to actually drive on Bam. They don't they see they see that as resistance. And even though Grant Williams kind of has the IQ and feel to be in the right position when playing small ball five, he doesn't necessarily have that. He doesn't have that wingspan and therefore or that kind of that athleticism that generates the paint to turn. So he teams still cun drive straight at him, which means for me, you know, he can't be He wouldn't be. He wouldn't fit my idea of the small ball closing vibe for me. So if he if you can't go small with him, there's really no other wing like that on the roster. So you probably pick between Thompson and Tye. And even though Tye is better than what most people you know drialize, I still think Tristan is still the better option, just because he is a little bit stronger of an interior presence. Tysons sometimes struggle even against like smaller people just being strong with the ball, especially when he's going either either when he's going up for Alius or like getting the ball in the post against the mismatch and stuff like that. He's very susceptible to getting wet locked. Just he's not very strong with the ball in that in that aspect, and he's actually, as team started to realize in the playoffs, actually not that good of a shooter either. So he is he is a little limited, and I just think Thompson just kind of having that can kind of do what Tyson does, but then he goes so stronger would probably get him the edge. So I probably go Thompson and then go, you know, the Jay's kemba and Smart is there. Let's say you're your main head coach of the Celtics or Brad Stephen Tess, Listen, whatever you say, is there a quirkier lineup combination that you're hoping they trot out at any point this season to try it? In terms of quirky lineups, I'm sure I'm not gonna say, because I'm sure there's gonna be at one point this year Smart is gonna end up playing the four, and there's gonna be three other guards on the court. Like I'm sure at some point there's gonna be like a kemba like Pritchard, Tigue Smart and like Thompson lineup and it's gonna be making some comeback and like okay see or something like, I'm sure that line is gonna be there. But the quirky is one I see, I love, I love, I love like the wings, like the all Wings stuff. So I would love to see like a lineup of like Tatum as the point guard, Jalen there, Jalen and Nay Smith hoping. You know, you're getting the shooting from Nay Smith, kind of the slashing and scoring from Jalen, and then you're putting Grant and then Javonte Green and just all go all wings. You see what you see, what happens? You see, you have you hope you have enough playmaking and feel from from Grant and Tatum, and that you know Nate Smith is providing shooting and you have all this all this you know, athleticism between Jalen Davante and you just see what the heck happens. We'll probably will probably never happen, but that would be that would be one of the quirky lines I'd like to see since the Celtics love drafting and all these wings. Yeah, that was basically one of mine where I wanted to see. Really they're four main guys though, like Kemba, Smart, Tatum and Brown and then could we get Nay Smith in there? And did you just go hyper small? The one that I was I think is probably more realistic than I want to see, just because also this team really isn't built to get weird anymore, like without Hayward, Like there were so many different combinations that you could theorize, but Grant Williams with the with like their four main guys, I would like to see more of they didn't play They played like under twenty five possessions last year of Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Williams. So I won't even infer anything from the data, but that's a line up that I would just like to see because if for some reason this team like does sort of struggle to hit its ceiling or match what they were doing last year, Like I think you need to lean into lineups where you can create a bunch of mismatches and that might be where they're best served. And I think that Grant at the five still has a pathway there. Especially again, if like any of the touch he showed in the postseason carries over to now, that would just be a lineup that I would be super interested in watching more of, Yeah, for sure. And man, it would be a grant, granted grant. It is going to be such a swing piece for them this year because I mean, man, they kind of need him to be like a PJ. Tucker asked player, And if he could bring even just sixteen to seventy percent of that, it would really kind of change kind of like their versatility and make them, you know, have those more funkier lineups if he really is able to like slide sliding across the lineups as they're envisioning. So their win toll over this year is set per Vegas at forty four point five, which for people like myself who cannot think in terms of seventy two games, that's the equivalent of fifty one wins in for in a normal season. Would you go over under on that? And what do you think is a realistic finish given what happened this offseason for them in the Eastern Conference when you're looking at the standings, what is the word what is the word when you don't go over and under, what is that? Uh? Push push that? Yeah, push that. I think I think that's right around where they'll be. If I had to be pushed though to make an actual decision, I would I would probably say under, just because I worry that they could start slow just without Kemba, with some of the how they kind of have looked kind of like weirdly fatigued in the preseason, but I guess not weirdly since it's been such a short offseason, but they might be a team where that played a factor into as well. So if I had to be pushed, i'd probably go under, just just from that standpoint. But realistically, like I do think they'll put ultimately like they're around that level when when they're healthy and right, it's about like fifty one win team. I went under for them, and I'm like, I feel like I'm becoming increasingly lower on them just the way that they're built, and maybe there's a move they can make in the mid season like that'll change that. It's also very unfortunate because and this is I would't say it's written in stone, but it's on paper and on record that I picked Jason dam to win MVP this year at Bleacher Report, and I've had more time to think about it since I made that pick, and I like don't like it as much, but I love being right. So I'm hoping that they smash the over and that Kemba's injury plus Hayward's departure is sort of like the springboard for Tatum to enter the MVP discussion this year. Selfishly, this is purely selfish motives. Yeah, And I mean I definitely get this into them because like you just at the end of the day, you like I like, I've probably like Thompson more than you and I like his fit more. But even for me, for me to see like an optimistic view requires me to see someone like Aaron Nay Smith having like a tilent heroesque year where he's just reliable, like getting reliable like eight to twelve points a game and being like a role threat from three and requires something that's like unknown and unknown variable at this moment, and like you know, and you're also relying on rookies to be consistent, which is generally just never been the case. So yeah, like it definitely feels like the year where they're the way the only way to maintain the level they were at last year. Is Jason Tatum legitimy going from like a like a top fifteen is maybe twentieth player to like a legitimate, like top ten guy. You have to be that in order for them to stay at least at the level where they were at last season, because I don't know how much they could alive on their on their death at all the season. And maybe it's maybe this team is just better shooter for Brad Stevens, where it feels like the fewer proven like the less proven talent you give him, like, the better he actually coaches, and so they you know, maybe last year might be just an exception. Kemball was just such a good fit for everything they were doing. So maybe they get like the the Brad Stevens, you know, getting stuff out of players that other coaches wouldn't be able to tap into that value, like maybe they get that bump this season or something. I honestly don't know. I don't know. Maybe maybe they maybe they bring Carson Edwards from the dead. Still jealous of Carson Edwards, quads and cast I will throw that out there, Alex before I let you go. Is there anything that I did not ask you about that you think that we need to touch on, or that you wanted to touch on, or maybe something that you think is just misperceived about this team on a national level. No, and not really. I think we got I think, I mean, I think the guy everything the season is happening so quick. I don't even think there's been enough time for people to even talk themselves in and out of their their initial takes, you know, because like everything is happening so fast. It's it's kind of weird because I love basketball, but it's so overwhelming, like as a fan, even as just a fan, it was just like, wait, we're already playing games again, Like I'm not I'm still trying to process how Tyler hero will drop thirty seven points. I don't know how I'm so to watch preseason right now and then Kyrie. It's crazy how how fast the season is. But yeah, I don't really think they missed anything. I think we'll see more for sure as the year goes on, and that they'll they'll be much more to talk about when we see how some of their how some of their games are gonna playoff. Alex, this was great. Thank you for giving me so much of your time. If you guys are not following Alex on Twitter, remedy that immediately. He's a basket. Paul Junkie does a great job tweeting about covering the Celtics. I love watching his takes in the general NBA come across the TL as well, so follow him at Kungu Underscore NBA. That's at Ku n Gu underscore MBAU. And again, thank you so much for giving me more of your time. And I can say with absolute confidence I will be bothering you again in the future. Oh man, that's that's awesome. Man. Thanks they're trying me on then that that's look forward to coming back on again where hopefully we're talking about Jason Tatup is Legion MP candidate. Yes, if only so I can be right, I definitely support that nobody builds five G like Verizon builds five G because we're the engineers who built the most reliable network in America. And the more you do with five G, the more building it right matters, the more your network matters, The more Verizon engineers going the extra mile matters. It's us pushing us. It's Verizon versus Verizon. Five G built right from a America's most Reliable network, Most Reliable based on rankings Promote Metrics, second half twenty twenty YU West report of three mobile networks results may vary. Award is not an endorsement