1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120 Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:43,640 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly and 10 00:00:43,679 --> 00:00:48,240 I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by author Casey Sherman here to talk 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,240 to us about his new book, A Murderer in Hollywood, The Untold story 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,799 of Tinseltown's most shocking crime. Casey, thanks for joining us again. Well, 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,640 thanks for having me back as that was a pleasure. So we wanted 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:06,000 to start an important question. See this February thirteenth release date Is this because 15 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:11,120 you're an incurable romantic and you've convinced your publisher that coming out the day before 16 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:17,680 Valentine's Day? Is there anything more romantic build than murder in Hollywood to talk 17 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,480 about over a candlelight dinner with your significant other. But it's funny you mentioned 18 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,400 that there probably is some type of marketing decision around that because the thirteenth of 19 00:01:26,439 --> 00:01:32,480 February. Where publishing is concerned, books come out in certain times of the 20 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,959 month or certain times of season, so the winter books are really most of 21 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,439 the release dates are around February thirteenth, and I do think they it is 22 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,239 because people are going out and they're buying things, and they're looking for gifts. 23 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,840 So the publishers are smart. If your loved ones the gift of murder 24 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:55,840 this Valentine's Day, Hell yeah, it's just so romantic, especially this story. 25 00:01:55,959 --> 00:02:00,280 It's romance off the charts. Before we jump into so talking about your 26 00:02:00,319 --> 00:02:06,120 newest book, take a minute and just remind our listeners a little bit about 27 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:12,400 your relationship with the true crime space, especially about your connection to the Boston 28 00:02:12,479 --> 00:02:15,919 Strangler case. I appreciate that kristin the Murder in Hollywood, this new book 29 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:21,199 is my sixteenth book. I've been writing true crime for well over twenty years. 30 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,919 Just celebrated my twentieth anniversary, as I should say as a published author, 31 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,280 and I do call myself an accidental author. I never believed of the 32 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:31,919 writing books one day, but that is until I was thrust into the spotlight 33 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,919 because of my work on the Boston Strangler case. Now this wasn't just something 34 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,080 I picked out of thin air as a personal crusade for me. Really, 35 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:44,840 my aunt was the youngest and final victim of that notorious nineteen sixties murder spree. 36 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,439 So I investigated the case or kind of reopened it in the late eighties 37 00:02:50,479 --> 00:02:54,360 early nineteen nineties. Wrote my first book arose from Mary Mary being my aunt 38 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,960 Mary Sullivan's name, and it became a surprise bestseller. And then I thought, 39 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,439 geez, I can do this. There are other stories that are worth 40 00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:06,439 telling. And now, sixteen books later, here we are. We don't 41 00:03:06,439 --> 00:03:10,560 want to do an exhaustive bibliography, but do you give us just a brief 42 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,919 friend and about your most recent book, which we understand is also being turned 43 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:21,439 into a series by Amazon. Yeah, I appreciate that I've been I've had 44 00:03:21,479 --> 00:03:25,319 the real gift from Hollywood that producers look at my work and they see it 45 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,400 easily adaptable because I write in a visual way. So I wrote Boston Strong, 46 00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:35,759 which became Patriots Day with Mark Wahlberg, a coast Guard rescue story called 47 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:38,800 The Finest Hours, which became a big Disney movie with Chris Pine and Casey 48 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,840 Affleck, and Helltown. So Helltown is a book about a serial murder case, 49 00:03:43,879 --> 00:03:46,360 and you guys had me on last year or discuss it. And now 50 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:53,680 that's being adapted into an eight part limited series for Amazon Studios, and it's 51 00:03:53,719 --> 00:04:00,840 going to star Oscar Isaac as our protagonist, fellow writer Kurt Vonnegut that many 52 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:05,960 in your audience remember Kurt investigated a serial murder case back in the nineteen sixties 53 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,400 on Cape cod and it was one of the most vicious murder cases in the 54 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:14,479 history of crime in my opinion. So we're really looking forward to the series. 55 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,800 And this next book, Murder in Hollywood, is also in development as 56 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,160 a feature film now as well. How much of a role do you play 57 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:29,279 Casey as the author of the original material when it's being adapted for something like 58 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,079 an eight part limited series. Yeah, that's a great question. Bill earlier 59 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,000 in my career, say with The Patriots stead I didn't really have a role. 60 00:04:35,319 --> 00:04:40,639 I was able to review the scripts and for authenticity purposes, but I 61 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,959 didn't have any essay overcasting or anything like that. They'd let me know that 62 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,480 Mark Wahlberg had been cast in the lead, etc. But I didn't have 63 00:04:47,519 --> 00:04:50,800 a seat at the table. You only get that when you become an executive 64 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,439 producer or a producer on the project, which I am for Healtown. That 65 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,399 entire creative process from a collaborative standpoint has been a amazing because I've been working 66 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:04,240 with some of the best fraidive minds in Hollywood, starting with Team Downey. 67 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:09,600 That's Robert Downey Junior and his wife Susan. They are my co producers on 68 00:05:09,639 --> 00:05:14,079 the project. Our director is Edward Berger, who won a slew of Oscars 69 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:17,480 for All Quiet on the Western Front last year, and we picked up ed. 70 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:21,360 Everybody in Hollywood wanted to work with him, but his new Oscar winning 71 00:05:21,399 --> 00:05:26,480 movie hadn't come out yet. Sometimes luck plays a role in this, and 72 00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:30,079 it's all about bringing the best people to the project and letting them take their 73 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,639 own journey with it. I wrote always the source material, but the screenwriters 74 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,959 are going to take it in sometimes a unique and different direction, and I'm 75 00:05:41,959 --> 00:05:44,680 okay with that as long as it really, you know, grips me, 76 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,160 and it does. Kassi, How do you decide on your subjects for your 77 00:05:47,199 --> 00:05:51,079 books? Do they do the subject kick you? Or do you go in 78 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:56,319 search of topics? Is there a master list somewhere of here's all the things 79 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,240 I'd like to cover and you're just ticking them off one by one. Yeah, 80 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,079 I've got a master list in my head. And sometimes these stories take 81 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:08,120 years to develop, so I'll have to find another project in the meantime. 82 00:06:08,199 --> 00:06:12,120 And this book we're talking about today a murder in Hollywood. My agent, 83 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,279 Peter Steinberg at UTA United Talent, gave me this idea after Helltown. My 84 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,800 publisher, Source Books, was looking for another big book from me, meaning 85 00:06:20,879 --> 00:06:27,920 something that you would incorporate the themes of a particular era and the names of 86 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:30,240 some of the most prominent people of that era. And he sent me probably 87 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,399 a list of four to five different news articles to take a look at. 88 00:06:34,519 --> 00:06:41,079 And I came upon this article with regard to Lana Turner back in the nineteen 89 00:06:41,079 --> 00:06:44,399 fifties, and I had heard the story about how she was involved with a 90 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,279 very salacious and sensational murder By nineteen fifty eight. Didn't really give it much 91 00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:51,920 thought, but I thought, Okay, La Confidential is one of my favorite 92 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:58,040 books, and certainly one of my favorite films too. Yeah, excellent Bill, 93 00:06:58,079 --> 00:07:02,319 and I'm a big sucker for and Chandler and all the La noir books 94 00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:05,319 and films of the nineteen forties and fifties, and I would love to, 95 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:11,279 yeah, add to that large cannon in any way, shape or form. 96 00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:13,519 So I told my agent, I said, I'm going to take a look 97 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,279 at this, give me a week. And I started to dig into the 98 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,920 story, and I realized the story hasn't been told in its full breath for 99 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:25,399 sixty years, and there's so much material that people don't even know about that 100 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,120 I have been able to dig out. And I'm very proud of it. 101 00:07:28,399 --> 00:07:31,680 While we're on the La Confidential tip for one second, I would probably say, 102 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,519 if that's not my favorite film of all time, it's top five. 103 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:42,319 We over the holidays, we saw a wonderful holiday movie, Christmas movie with 104 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,800 Jamie Cromwell. James Cromwell, oh yeah, he had been on the board 105 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,199 of sag Aftra and I was the executive director, so I had a chance 106 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,319 to spend some time with him. I was told that her, I am, 107 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,639 he's a very intimidating guy, even though he's a lovely guy. He's 108 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,879 six six right, and I geez, how do I deal with this guy? 109 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,120 But he ended up being such a great, rounded, thoughtful, kind 110 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:11,680 man. And then I heard from other people on the staff that if he 111 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,600 likes you, he'll let you call him Jamie. And then at some point 112 00:08:15,639 --> 00:08:18,079 when we'd work together a few months, he said to me, Bill, 113 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,399 call me Jamie, and I thought I've arrived when you call. When you 114 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:26,600 mentioned Jamie Crimewell, I said, jeez, he really has to know this 115 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,839 guy. Good for you, Bill. But that film and that book two 116 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:31,840 of my favorites. And there is a scene, if you recall him La 117 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:37,039 Confidential where Bud White Russell Crow's character Yeah, takes Guy Pears into the Cafe 118 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,240 Formosa and been there. One of them goes up to the booth where a 119 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,559 lot of Turner and Johnny stopping out are sitting, and there's a little scene 120 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,240 there. So I thought, oh, that's a unique way into this story. 121 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:52,399 And quite frankly, I thought there'd be much more about this crime, 122 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,120 and not only filmography, but books have been written, but there really wasn't 123 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:01,080 No people have mentioned it, So it was a blind canvas for me to 124 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,399 paint on over the past year and dig into all of the different details and 125 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,799 nuances that I was looking to explore with this, because it wasn't really only 126 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:13,240 a story about Lana Turner, but it was a story as well, a 127 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,559 murder in Hollywood, about the rise of organized crime in Hollywood, which I 128 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:22,519 was really fascinated by. I was so pleasantly surprised with the whole untold story 129 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:28,600 because you feel like everything about Hollywood is known, and this actually was a 130 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:31,679 story that I wasn't familiar with either. It's interesting that I looked at it 131 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:37,960 as the Lana Turner's story, but I wanted to really focus on the rise 132 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,679 of Hollywood, the studio system, and these young actors and actresses coinciding with 133 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,039 the rise of organized crime. I looked at Lana Turner and her rise, 134 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,440 and then I looked at La Gangster a gang boss Mickey Cohen in his rise, 135 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,240 and they were pretty similar in terms of Tommy. Both take taking over 136 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,360 Hollywood in different ways, shapes or forms, and I would say that for 137 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,679 the gangsters, you know what, they're all boat and it's fascinating to explore 138 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:07,480 that mindset. With the studios, it's a little more sinister in my opinion, 139 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:13,039 where you have these very well respected Hollywood producers who were praying on these 140 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,360 young actors and actresses. And the Harvey Weinstein story didn't come out of thin 141 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:22,360 air. It was born into Hollywood back in the twenties, thirties, forties, 142 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,039 and ultimately the fifties. This is the sort of thing that I would 143 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,679 love to be able to offer to my students in my film class as this 144 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,320 is some of the fallout of the studio system because we've been talking about it. 145 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,480 Given the current politics in my school district, I'm not going to be 146 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,519 able to keep this on my shelf, unfortunately, but it is very interesting 147 00:10:41,639 --> 00:10:45,519 and so as I was reading this, I was sitting there going, this 148 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,120 is definitely a story of that era, but it is a story for the 149 00:10:48,159 --> 00:10:52,279 twenty first century and the Me Too movement. You mentioned Harvey Weinstein a couple 150 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,919 of minutes ago, and what I was really interested in is the fact that 151 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:01,559 you have shown a light on the abuse of women in Hollywood, starting from 152 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,360 very early on. What do you think are some of the ways that Hollywood 153 00:11:05,399 --> 00:11:09,080 has changed as a result of that Me Too movement and what are some of 154 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,600 the ways that it hasn't. That's a great question, Chris. I think 155 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,200 that my goal was to provide some agency for Lana Turner in the book, 156 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,720 really give her her power back. And I think female actors in Hollywood now 157 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,799 are starting to get that power back and really starting to make decisions for the 158 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,480 industry. Where they were always on the sideline or isolated. Even the most 159 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:37,679 paid actresses over the past twenty years, or Julia Roberts here, Jennifer Lawrence 160 00:11:37,759 --> 00:11:43,960 is they never really had a creative seat at the table, which is ridiculous, 161 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,639 Steven, think about. But there was this mindset that goes all the 162 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,200 way back to the nineteen twenties in Hollywood, where Hollywood was a man's world 163 00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:54,759 for a long time. And there are so many celebrities that we've in and 164 00:11:54,799 --> 00:12:00,120 out of the pages of a Murder in Hollywood, from Sean Connery to marylan 165 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,279 Monroe, Judy Garland, Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz who died tragically in 166 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:07,360 her late forties and everybody looked at her and said, oh, what a 167 00:12:07,399 --> 00:12:11,200 tragic story that was she became an alcoholic and a drug addict, But she 168 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:16,080 didn't just become that. The studios had put her on drugs when she was 169 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:20,039 a young teenager, when she was almost a pre teen. They had fed 170 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:26,159 these young actors and phetamines to keep them working for seventy hours a week to 171 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:31,360 crank out movie after movie. And these kids persisted on chicken brow from cigarettes. 172 00:12:31,399 --> 00:12:35,039 That was their diet along with these bills. It's surprising that there weren't 173 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:41,080 more Judy Garlands in the world than there was even Lana Turner. When I 174 00:12:41,159 --> 00:12:43,200 was doing a little bit of research to get ready for today, I had 175 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,320 forgotten that she died of throat cancer. I know, even going back to 176 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,360 my parents' generation. We were talking recently about the fact that so many adults 177 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,600 when I was a kid, so many adults used to smoke cigarettes. But 178 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,919 then it would be endemic in a place like Hollywood, and like you say, 179 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,519 surviving on broth and cigarettes and drugs and alcohol. Yeah, and these 180 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,440 kids were thirteen years old at the time. And yeah, it's funny you 181 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,840 mentioned that. Bill. My wife and I just maestro the other day with 182 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:18,159 Bradley Cooper about Letter Bernstein and I had to go outside and breathe some fresh 183 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,679 air because of all the smoking in the film. I was I can breathe, 184 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,440 and again, it was a short time ago when we all grew up 185 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,039 in that type of environment with our parents and grandparents. And here you have 186 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:33,240 Hollywood where they're putting these young actors on the fast track when they're so young. 187 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:39,240 Alana Turner has got one of the greatest introductions to Hollywood in history. 188 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:45,919 She's the original discovery story. She was discovered sitting at a soda fountain in 189 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,840 Hollywood. That was her, and that led to thousands, if not a 190 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:54,360 million, starlets or would be starlets, making their way to Hollywood in the 191 00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:58,039 subsequent decades, sitting on a stool at a soda fountain, waiting to be 192 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,799 discovered. But that's she was just a kid at Hollywood High School. She 193 00:14:01,879 --> 00:14:07,360 had moved to Hollywood from San Francisco because her own father was murdered when she 194 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,240 was quite young. And I started the book with a chapter to explain why 195 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,320 she was always drawn to dark men in her life. I think that's what 196 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,080 she was plagued by for much of her life until she decided to get her 197 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,159 power back. A lot of people are probably familiar with the name Lenna Turner, 198 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,519 but I think there may be some people who are not familiar with the 199 00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:33,440 name Johnny Stompinado, and I certainly was not. Can you just give us 200 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,679 a quick rundown. Who is Johnny Stompanado. Yeah, that's a great question. 201 00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:41,039 Christ And for those who don't know, what was Marilyn Monroe before Marilyn 202 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:48,000 Monroe, Lana owned Hollywood. Marilyn Monroe adored and idolized Lana and actually took 203 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,559 her whole image from Lana. Turner dyed her hair platinum blonde, and Lana 204 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,799 was in her mid thirties by the time Marilyn came around and passed the baton 205 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,759 of Hollywood superstar to Marilyn Monroe. So a lot of tournament was huge in 206 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:07,360 Hollywood and certainly is in Hollywood history. Johnny Stompanado was a World War Two 207 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,679 veteran bad guy who grew up in the Woodstock, Illinois, and made his 208 00:15:11,799 --> 00:15:16,639 way to Hollywood and wanted to get on the fast track with organized crime. 209 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,159 And he was a jigglow in his first days in Hollywood, which a lot 210 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,759 of people were at that time praying on men and women, which is what 211 00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:30,120 Johnny did. And suddenly young crime boss named Mickey Cohen took Johnny under his 212 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,000 wing. Mickey liked Johnny because Johnny was a combat vet, and Johnny knew 213 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:37,399 his way around weapons, and Johnny was pretty smart and pretty tough. Johnny 214 00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:43,879 started to really have an influence on Mickey Cohen and his criminal activities. And 215 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,360 Mickey Cohen's interesting because for much of the book of Murder in Hollywood, the 216 00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:52,720 reader is going to be reading about these shooting attacks on Sunset Boulevard right in 217 00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:58,720 the middle of broad daylight, or bombing attempts at Mickey Cohen's home in Brentwood, 218 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,879 from where oj Simpson eventually live. Hollywood was under attack by organized crime 219 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,720 on the glory days of Hollywood, and people don't realize that. And as 220 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:12,399 Mickey got a little older, he wanted to probably get away from the gangster 221 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:18,679 violence, so to speak, so he and Johnny started to extort Hollywood starts, 222 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,559 putting them into compromising positions, and that's how this affair with Lana Turner 223 00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:30,759 started. Were you able to spend some time in Los Angeles doing research for 224 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,639 the book you're based in Massachusetts. Do you end up making trips out there 225 00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:40,600 to just refamiliarize yourself with the lay of the land. Yeah, Bill. 226 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,200 As a writer, for me, you have to look, touch and feel 227 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:47,440 it. I can't write about something unless I've seen it. I did spend 228 00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:52,840 quite some time out in Los Angeles and Hollywood going over the ghosts of Lana 229 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:57,679 Turner and Mickey Cohen, walking up Sunset Boulevard and recognizing where Mickey Cohen's headquarters 230 00:16:57,759 --> 00:17:02,440 once was, where all of the nightclubs that he had owned, and there 231 00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:07,559 that street is so famous, so you can recognize where these places were, 232 00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:11,279 and I certainly did that. I went to Lana Turner's home in Beverly Hills, 233 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,160 where the culmination of this story takes place, and this story ultimately is 234 00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:21,240 it's a collision course between Hollywood glamour and gangsterism that ended up in a bloodstained 235 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:26,160 bedroom in Beverly Hills. How do you gain access to someone's home like that. 236 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,319 I couldn't walk the grid there. I've done that in the past. 237 00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:33,680 I gained access to Whitey Bulger's apartment in Santa Monica a few years ago when 238 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,960 I wrote my book Hunting Weddy. But now that Lana's home is in private 239 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,440 hands, going up and knocking on the door probably would have freaked somebody out, 240 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:47,599 and I didn't want to do but just to familiarize myself with the street, 241 00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:51,599 with the home standing across the street, and I'm sure they realized that 242 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,759 this is an infamous home in Hollywood and a lot of people gock at it 243 00:17:53,799 --> 00:17:57,319 to take photos. I was no different from any other tourists doing the same 244 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,839 thing. But I also had to not knowledge of everything that I had learned 245 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,839 up to that point to allow me to picture what it must have been like 246 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,000 on Good Friday nineteen fifty eight when there was a swarm of police cars in 247 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:17,720 front of that beautiful mansion in Beverly Hills, wondering what the hell happened inside. 248 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,680 What kind of media and archival records were available to you? Did you 249 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,920 have to FOI at anything or all of this available? All of it's available 250 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,240 if you just know where to look. The La Times was a great resource. 251 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:36,400 The Los Angeles Police Department was a great resource. Beverly Hills Police Department 252 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:40,440 was a great resource. There is a you can use now for journalists and 253 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,319 writers called newspapers dot com, and it's a subscription. But if you buy 254 00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:48,400 the subscription, and that's a nominal fee. But you can go all the 255 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,039 way back to the eighteen hundreds and start digging through every newspaper article that has 256 00:18:55,079 --> 00:18:59,640 been digitized, and I was shocked at how many newspaper articles there were, 257 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,640 not only about a lot of Turner, I knew that, but about Mickey 258 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,079 Cohen at the time, and about Johnny Stampanado. He didn't just come out 259 00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:11,480 of thin air. He'd been written about and reported on in Hollywood for almost 260 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:15,519 a decade before he'd even met Lana Turner. So does that mean that Johnny 261 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:21,079 Stompanado in praying on both women and men, is he bisexual himself? Yeah, 262 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:22,599 he never looked at I don't think he ever looked at himself that way. 263 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,319 He looked at This was the price of doing business in Hollywood. By 264 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:33,039 right about Johnny having alliances with Liberaci merv Griffin and again back in the nineteen 265 00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:36,720 fifties, these gay actors and gay celebrities, they had to stay in the 266 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,559 closet and the only way that they could have that type of companionship they were 267 00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:45,519 looking for were to get into business with people. Johnny Stompanado and Johnny Stampanado 268 00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:48,400 recognized it, and he knew that the only way to get into Hollywood was 269 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,799 to use his body both as a weapon and as a tool for sex. 270 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,119 So really he's a hustler more than anything else in terms of that's how he 271 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:02,160 started relationships. He started to as a hustler. I think he morphed into 272 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,839 a gangster under Mickey, and then I think he became a hustler at the 273 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,279 end of his life as he was trying to hustle Lana Turner out of millions 274 00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:14,519 of dollars that she was worth at the time. You're listening to Mind Over 275 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:22,880 Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back 276 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:29,079 here at Mindover Murder. Were you able to interview Lana Turner's daughter, Cheryl 277 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,640 Crane for this book. No. What I was told was Cheryl is. 278 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,240 I think she's almost ninety now and in a firm a pretty affirm I don't 279 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,559 think she's in good health. But I did read her book Detour, which 280 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:47,200 goes into at length her childhood, and it's a very tragic childhood. I 281 00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:49,799 think I don't think we see I to I in terms of what happened in 282 00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:53,240 the bedroom in nineteen fifty eight, and I do think I've got my heart 283 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,599 breaks for Cheryl Crane, and I think she spent her whole life trying to 284 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,480 protect her mother. I think Lana spent her whole life trying to protect Cheryl. 285 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:08,000 So it was a symbiotic relationship. So do you regard Johnny Stampanado's murder 286 00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:12,400 as a case of self defense as they claim? I would say that it 287 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,680 was about time for Lana to take her life back. Now, I take 288 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,599 the reader in a murder for Hollywood, in murder in Hollywood, rather through 289 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,640 her life and through all the bad decisions that she had made regarding men in 290 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:32,519 her life and men that abused her physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, 291 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,279 and ultimately she couldn't take it anymore. And when Johnny Stampanado got extremely violent 292 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:45,039 against her and then threatened the life of Lana's mother and Cheryl, who was 293 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,799 fourteen years old at the time, Lana decided to take her future in her 294 00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:53,240 own hands and kill Johnny Stampanado. That's what I believe, and I think 295 00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:57,240 that's what the evidence in the case dictates. And I think it would have 296 00:21:57,279 --> 00:22:02,519 been justifiable homicide because he was going to kill her at some point, and 297 00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:07,039 she just was a little quicker than he was. This was really high profile 298 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,240 case back then. How did the media treat the major players in this case? 299 00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:15,880 You read all of the newspaper reporting. What was the media like toward 300 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,359 Lana and toward Johnny. Well, it's a great question, Christen, because 301 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:25,039 Lana for sixty years has been looked at as a femme fatal by Hollywood. 302 00:22:25,319 --> 00:22:30,079 What this book does is it elevates her to a rightful position as a feminist 303 00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:36,000 icon. I think that anytime a crime like that happens, the focus immediately 304 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,960 is on the alleged perpetrator, and I think the media dragged Lana through the 305 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,279 bushes, if you will, and really cast the negative eye on her, 306 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,720 which is one of the reasons why decision was made not necessarily by Lana, 307 00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:52,000 but by her attorney at the time, the Hollywood fixer named Jerry Giesler, 308 00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:56,519 who was basically the Johnny Cochran of the nineteen fifties who it was the first 309 00:22:56,519 --> 00:23:03,559 call she made after the knife had gone into Johnny's torso and he's lying dead 310 00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:07,680 on her bedroom floor. She calls the lawyer before she calls police. The 311 00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:14,640 lawyer gets there and the crime scene is manipulated for the next hour, and 312 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,359 then a narrative is created. Who wielded the knife? Was it Lana? 313 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:23,240 If it was Lana's going to go to trial, and there's a likelihood that 314 00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:27,559 Lna could get the death penalant, which was very real in nineteen fifty eight. 315 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,920 But if we put the knife in the fourteen year old daughter's hand, 316 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:37,119 now we can look at a justifiable homicide case. Because an all male jury, 317 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:41,119 Remember guys, jury's were all male in nineteen fifty eight, an all 318 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:47,359 male jury, many of those men would have daughters that they would be sympathetic 319 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:48,880 for. And I think that there would be a lot of sympathy and empathy 320 00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:52,799 for Cheryl. I don't think there would have been for Lana if she was 321 00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:57,799 facing the same charges. Cheryl's a lovely fourteen year old girl, but she 322 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:04,079 really is a girl's So it's a lot easier to dismiss people's darkest thoughts about 323 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:10,599 what happened that night because there's a kid involved. That's right, And I 324 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,119 think, as I said, nobody could imagine that a child would be put 325 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,559 into prison, or a child who would be allowed to stand trial as an 326 00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:21,680 adult. That just didn't happen back in nineteen fifty eight, especially in Hollywood. 327 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,799 The tables would have been turned to had Lana done that. But the 328 00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:29,640 interesting thing reading the book or what I found in my research is Lana was 329 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,559 eventually sued by the Stampanado family for wrongful death, and she settled the case 330 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,000 before without going to trial. So what does that tell me? That tells 331 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:41,519 me that Lana did not want this to go to civil trial because there's no 332 00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:45,839 statute of limitation on murder and she could have been put on trial eventually for 333 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:51,480 Johnny Stampanado's death and she avoided that at all costs. One of the disconnects 334 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,240 for me Casey is we talked about the studio system and how they controlled these 335 00:24:56,519 --> 00:25:03,279 actors and actresses when they were younger. How does a situation like this develop 336 00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:08,960 where Lana Turner is unfortunately involved in all of these abusive relationships and there's so 337 00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:15,440 much negative energy surrounding her. I feel like there's a disconnect between the studio 338 00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,920 system and then all the terrible things that were happening in Lana's life. Would 339 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,240 they not able to protect their stars from some of this stuff? It's a 340 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,680 great question. Bill. Not only were they not able to protect their stars, 341 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,680 they were I would say there was culpability on the studio side because Lana 342 00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:37,599 Turner had a morality clause with a studio MGM at the time. If she 343 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,119 was in a relationship with someone, she would have to marry that person. 344 00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:45,519 First of all, she couldn't just have a boyfriend because that was not looked 345 00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:48,279 at in the right way in nineteen fifty eight. And then she was stuck 346 00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:53,160 in a loveless, violent marriage until that marriage ended, until she divorced whomever 347 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,640 she was with at that time. And one of the shocking things I found 348 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:02,039 out in my research going through BI case files was that they had a case. 349 00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:04,920 Jade Goarhover had a full file on Lana Turner and there is an episode 350 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:10,440 in the book where an FBI agent follows Lana to New York City and Lana 351 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:15,160 was dating an African American jazz musician at the time. Somehow that agent gets 352 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,400 that information to j Edgar Hooover. Jed Goarhoover calls up Louis B. Mayor 353 00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:22,640 at MGM and says, the Queen of Hollywood, which is what Lana was 354 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,240 at the time, is dating an African American the a Lota almost lost her 355 00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:33,079 job at the studio just for that. So these actors were under incredible pressure 356 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:37,000 at the time to paint what we would call a wholesome picture of the movie 357 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,039 industry. But it was really anything but for anyone who isn't clear on the 358 00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:45,400 concept of morality clause and I had to explain that to my film class, 359 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,240 and we were talking about the studio system. Was a morality clause something that 360 00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:53,119 applied equally to male and female stars or would it mainly have been female stars 361 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,599 that had a morality clause added to their contract. That is a great question, 362 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,240 Kristen, Well, you look at the moraleality clauses of male stars, 363 00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:06,400 and I mentioned this in the book. Lana Turner is a teenager. Lana 364 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:12,079 Turner is a minor, but the studio is demanding that she escort their male 365 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,960 adult stars, including a future president named Ronald Reagan, to the regular And 366 00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:22,720 so you have these adult stars that are in their late twenties, thirties, 367 00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:29,359 even forties, squaring around these underage female starlets and nobody that's an eye, 368 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,799 which is what made me sick as I was writing this, But I wanted 369 00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:37,079 to again lift the veil of that toxic masculinity that Hollywood had at the time 370 00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:42,720 and probably still has. I was reading the scene about Errol Flynn and his 371 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,440 yacht and I just had to put the book down for a little bit. 372 00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:52,759 I absolutely could not believe some of the hijinks that were going on with the 373 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:56,839 biggest stars in Hollywood at that point. It really was just sick. Name 374 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,799 some of them was Robin He was the biggest action star, really the first 375 00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:07,880 action star in Hollywood history, and he was basically a serial rapist of young 376 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,480 women and he actually eventually went to trial for that. So again, the 377 00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:18,079 studios look the other way while these older actors were preying on these young stars. 378 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:25,000 You're a dad, and you're a dad of teenage daughters. Now they're 379 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,319 now in their twenties. But yes, in writing something like this, do 380 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:36,200 you find yourself talking to your daughters about this and this is you're looking at 381 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,720 this from a twenty twenty four lens. Yeah, But at the same time, 382 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,000 this stuff still goes on. As Kristin mentioned the me Too movement a 383 00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:49,039 few minutes ago, do you find yourself discussing these things with your daughters? 384 00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:52,839 Oh? I think you have to, and I have these conversations with my 385 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,519 wife as well, but with our daughters. They're now getting into the workplace 386 00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,559 for the first time. They're leaving college, and it's a whole different world 387 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,200 out there. Hopefully the world is a lot better now than it was even 388 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,039 a few years ago, but they have to know that these things are real, 389 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:12,400 and these demons exist in every way, shape or form in every industry 390 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,599 they're out there. Do you think Hollywood has made enough changes as a result 391 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:22,519 of the Me Too movement? Has Hollywood come a good distance since what happened 392 00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:27,200 with Lana Turner? Are they just hiding it better? They probably just that's 393 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,799 a great question. I don't know that would be a question for a female 394 00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:34,640 actor to answer. I can't put myself in those shoes. I knew what 395 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:40,079 it was like as I wrote about it. I hope Hollywood's come a great 396 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,839 deal further from Lana's time, and especially from this awakening that's happened over the 397 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:51,920 past few years. But Hollywood's cyclical, and these bad characters always somehow get 398 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,519 second chances. Not the Harvey Weinstein's because he's in jail, but some of 399 00:29:55,519 --> 00:30:00,960 these other people that weren't brought to justice or trial. They still have their 400 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,720 careers in Hollywood, and they go into what they call Hollywood jail for a 401 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,000 couple of years, and then they come out and people forget what they had 402 00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:12,000 done. You have to google. Thank god there's the internet now, because 403 00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:17,599 you can read out very quickly on their litany of offenses. This story is 404 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,079 so amazing, and I'm thrilled that you've written the book as a result, 405 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,480 because it does shine a spotlight on something that I think had been somewhat forgotten. 406 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,880 What I don't quite get is this obviously was a very high profile story 407 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,559 back in nineteen fifty eight when it happened, yet it seems to have been 408 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,880 forgotten. Is it just the passage of time, or is there some other 409 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,440 reason why the Lenna Turner Johnny Stamponado's story hasn't been more top of mind. 410 00:30:47,119 --> 00:30:48,960 That's a great question, Bill. I think if we're talking about if this 411 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:55,160 was Marilyn Monroe now, it probably would have been a story that immediately was 412 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,680 recognizable to the masses. But I think that Hollywood always goes on to the 413 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,119 next project right after the Lana Turner scandal. Hollywood has been right for scandal 414 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,799 for the last sixty years, whether it's Helter Skelter or the OJ Simpson case, 415 00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:14,519 or what's happening in Hollywood right now the producer's son who was accused of 416 00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:18,880 murdering his wife. So there are always scandals in Hollywood. This was certainly 417 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,119 the biggest at the time, and probably the biggest I would say over a 418 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,440 span of maybe a couple of decades, because it was so sensational and Lana 419 00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:32,640 was the biggest actor in Hollywood at the time. Imagine Margot Robbie, for 420 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,759 example, if this had happened to her yesterday, That's what it would be 421 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,680 like. Lana was as big as star, if not bigger than Margot Robbie 422 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,039 in nineteen fifty eight. I know that when you go into each book project, 423 00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:45,960 you're going into it to write an excellent book. But is there anything 424 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,960 else aside from a great true crime story that you're hoping the reader will get 425 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,480 out of a murder in Hollywood? Yeah, I would say that. I 426 00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:59,920 call myself an archaeologist of words. I get excited when I learned something that's 427 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,920 that I don't know, and I can't wait to write about it in a 428 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,960 way that makes it entertaining. And informative for the reader. As I said, 429 00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:14,599 I think my goal here is to examine the toxic masculinity of Hollywood, 430 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:21,079 to show the reader how Hollywood began and grew over several decades. It wasn't 431 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,200 all of these beautiful sachronesque Hollywood movies that they were churning out. There was 432 00:32:25,319 --> 00:32:30,440 darkness behind the screen, and that darkness bled onto the streets of Sunset Boulevard 433 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:37,880 with a crime wave that was unsurpassed in many ways some of the gangster episodes 434 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,400 that I read about in Murder in Hollywood. I was really shocked to know 435 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,400 that these things actually happened in a place that everybody is either seen on television 436 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,759 or film or who have been there. Some of your most popular books have 437 00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:55,400 had a Massachusetts theme or have a connection to Cape cod where you're from. 438 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:04,000 This seems like a very deliberate shift away from East Coast themes to West Coast 439 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,559 themes. So is that a conscious decision on your part? I would say 440 00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:10,519 it was a subconscious decision. It probably wasn't. I didn't lead with that, 441 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,799 but it was on my mind. I wanted to break out of the 442 00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:19,839 regionality of some of the books that I've been writing most recently, because they 443 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,599 all have a New England or a Boston bent if you will. A good 444 00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:27,279 story is a good story no matter where you find it, So I'm always 445 00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:30,519 looking for stories that speak to me anywhere. It just so happens that New 446 00:33:30,559 --> 00:33:37,119 England is such a great place for these stories that organically come up. But 447 00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:40,839 Hollywood is. I'm out there, if not several times a year as much 448 00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:45,720 as I can, so I'm very familiar with that topography and that geography, 449 00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:49,680 and I understand the streets there as well as I do Boston. Does your 450 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,920 wife lobby for Tahiti or some other really wonderful location for I wish she wants 451 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,720 me to just she likes me to stay home, don't go too far and 452 00:33:59,839 --> 00:34:02,799 get it. There's a certain risk involved with some of the books that I 453 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,240 write. With the Murder of Hollywood, the great thing is everybody was long 454 00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:10,840 gone by the time Casey Sherman knocked on Lana's door in Beverly Hills, so 455 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,239 I was able to write this through the prism of history and get the story. 456 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,880 I think the reporters in nineteen fifty eight were trying to outdo each other 457 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,679 with sensational reporting and headlines, but they weren't seeing what the story was. 458 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,239 And when I looked at it from a thirty thousand foot level, I was 459 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,599 able to see where the pieces fit For the first time. People didn't realize 460 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:37,360 that Lana and Johnny Stampanado didn't just fall in love. This was an extortion 461 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:43,119 plot from day one, and poor Lana it was being victimized yet again and 462 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:49,840 decided once Johnny Stompanado after a very violent beating that he gave her on Oscar 463 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,800 night when she was nominated for Best Supporting Actress, the biggest night of her 464 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,400 professional career, and she does not invite Johnny to the Oscars. Instead, 465 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,119 she takes her daughter and her mother, and when she gets back to her 466 00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:07,159 hotel room, her bungalow late at night, of course, Johnny has found 467 00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:09,360 his way in there and he's waiting for her and gives her the beating of 468 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,960 her life. And she knew at that point there was no other way to 469 00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:16,440 rid herself of this man. If she tried to leave him, he'd kill 470 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,320 her. If she tried to leave him, he'd kill her daughter and her 471 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,559 mother, So she had to protect her family at all costs. And I 472 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:27,920 think that's what she did. You had spoken earlier about feeling like you wanted 473 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,159 to make sure that Lana Turner had her agency back and her voice back. 474 00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:34,280 Do you feel like you accomplished that for her? I hope so, I'd 475 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,599 like to think so. I think the way I ended the book because Lana 476 00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:42,280 had a career much longer than nineteen fifty eight, but I wanted to end 477 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,880 it with a very triumphant moment for not only Lana, but for her daughter 478 00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:51,239 and her mother. And it was amazing to me that Lana outlasted all of 479 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,360 her enemies and so she I think she does get her voice back, her 480 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,320 agency back, and I hope with this book her reputation back as well. 481 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,679 The book is a murder in Hollywood, the untold story of Tinseltown's most shocking 482 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,719 crime. What's next on the agenda for you, mister Sherman. I know 483 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:14,239 you're always working. Yeah, so I have just I'm completing my seventeenth book 484 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,920 as we speak. It's called Deadly Depths and it's another New England story, 485 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,599 but it's a story that made national headlines back in twenty sixteen when a young 486 00:36:22,679 --> 00:36:28,320 man with Aspergers syndrome took his mother on a deep sea fishing trip off the 487 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,400 coast of Rhode Island, and she never came up. She never came back, 488 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,400 and he was later discovered by on a life raft after seven days at 489 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,800 sea by a Chinese cargo ship. Right, there is a story that's worth 490 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,400 telling, but turns out years prior to that episode, this young man was 491 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:52,280 also accused of murdering his multi millionaire grandfather in his bed in Connecticut. So 492 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,360 this really makes the Murdo story. Look, this is the murder story on 493 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:59,760 steroids. Yeah really, I will say that. Of course, I always 494 00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:04,599 into these projects with my eyes wide open, and the story is not what 495 00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:07,000 I thought it was going into it. And that's what I love about the 496 00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:12,000 work I do. I love to be changed and turned around by the facts 497 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,760 and the evidence. And I can't wait to get this story out there as 498 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,320 well. Wow, So when will Deadly Depths come out? If all goes 499 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,320 according to plant twenty twenty five or yeah, twenty twenty five, We're going 500 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,800 to let my murder in Hollywood breathe this year. Same publisher. I've got 501 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,800 a great relationship with Source Books. They've been my they were my publisher for 502 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,239 Helltown and they're like family to me. So we're looking at twenty twenty five 503 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,760 for Deadly Depths. And then I've got a few other ideas kicking around my 504 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,119 head right now. And are we going to see you at Crime Con again 505 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,679 in June. We've got a really fast turnaround on crime Con this year, 506 00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:50,199 good time. So I'm talking to my marketing team at Source Books right now 507 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,639 just about that. So if they're there and they have a presence, then 508 00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:54,960 I'm sure they're going to want me there. Yeah, Nashville, right, 509 00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:00,280 Yeah, Nashville. We'll be there with bells on, so we hope too. 510 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,880 And the book A Murder in Hollywood, the owntelled story of Tinseltown's most 511 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,800 shocking crime, is available February thirteenth, wherever books are sold. Casey, 512 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,800 thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate it. Thank you 513 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,760 guys, always a pleasure. I appreciate it. That's going to do it 514 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,760 for this episode of mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening. 515 00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:31,480 We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero 516 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,440 and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 517 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:43,920 Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. 518 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,440 Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. You can 519 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,639 follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our 520 00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:58,119 page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow 521 00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:01,920 Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you for listening 522 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,840 to mind Over Murder.