WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:10.599 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO 2 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:16.199 news authority, presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's 3 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:29.079 your host, Alejandro Roja. Hell, it's Alejandro. How's it go in? 4 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:34.200 It is Alejandro Ross and we are here to talk about the UFOs. 5 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:39.799 This is Open Minds Radio and here it open Minds. We are your UFO 6 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:44.719 news authority. How cool are we? How cool are you? I want 7 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:49.920 to you know, I thought I haven't told the listeners how freaking cool they 8 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:53.960 are in a long time, but we have some cool listeners. I'm so 9 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:58.479 happy that you guys are tuning in and listening on a regular basis, because 10 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:04.040 it's really what it's all about is sharing with the thousands of people out there 11 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:11.959 I know who are really into this subject and want to know more about everything 12 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.560 when it comes to it, and hear from all of these different people. 13 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:19.319 And it's also great to be able to get so many different people on the 14 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.719 show to talk to you about this stuff. I had so much fun with 15 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.719 Nick Redburn last week, and this week is another great guest. This is 16 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:32.200 Micah Hanks, and Micah Hanks runs a website called the Gray Alien Report, 17 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:38.079 and he was actually in an article on Open Minds that was kind of about 18 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:45.200 the youth and their involvement in UFO research, and so that's what we wanted 19 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:49.200 to talk to Micah about. He also has a book called Magic, Mysticism 20 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:56.599 and the Molecule, The Search for Sentient Intelligence from Other Worlds. What a 21 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.599 cool name for a book. So we're going to talk to him about his 22 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:05.760 book as well. And he's like in his twenties, upper twenties, but 23 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:08.840 that is pretty rare for this field because, as you know, a lot 24 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:14.240 of the people that I'm talking to on the radio show are older, you 25 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:15.960 know, and I think part of it is that, you know, until 26 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.319 you retire, sometimes you don't have time to write books and do a lot 27 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.360 of research. So we have a lot of older people and me and Mike 28 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:29.319 are going to talk about some of the other differences and why there are differences 29 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:31.639 and what are the differences. A lot of the older people are saying, 30 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:35.919 oh, you know, there aren't people come doing to our lectures, or 31 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:38.719 or I just had a conference and there wasn't a lot of people there or 32 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:44.639 something. But you know, that to them makes them think that the youth 33 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:46.319 aren't involved, but they are. You know, you're listening to the show, 34 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:51.639 you're podcasting, we're social media. You know, you guys are watching 35 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:55.479 our Twitters and our Facebook, and we know you're out there because we have 36 00:02:55.520 --> 00:03:00.719 tons of followers, which gives me a chance to plug the Facebook. Don't 37 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:04.439 forget you know, all of our Facebook out there. The UFO Think Tank, 38 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.400 We've got a ton of them. We've got Open Minds Magazine, We've 39 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:12.240 got our Open Minds Forum. You have Jason McClellan, our Jason open Minds. 40 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.400 You have Maureene Open Minds. What else You've got open Minds TV? 41 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:22.680 Twitter, you have Paranormal Reporter Twitter, you have UFO Daily News Twitter. 42 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:27.639 So we're out there all over the social world, and that's where the youth 43 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.120 are, I think, which is great. It's just a new and different 44 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:34.879 way to interface with people and taking advantage of that is where we can continue 45 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:39.759 the conversation with all the sections of the population, and I think that's wonderful 46 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.039 and that's what me and Michael will be talking about been a little while. 47 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:51.000 But first, of course, we always talk about UFO News and we bring 48 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.520 this quirky little guy called Jason on to talk to us about the UFO news 49 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:59.240 of the week. And he's here, ladies and gentlemen, it's wonderful. 50 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.080 Jason McClellan. How are you, hello, Alejandro? I am wonderful. 51 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:08.719 How are you good? Not too bad? Doing well? Not too bad 52 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:13.240 or well good? All right, we'll stick with that, my friend. 53 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:16.000 Well, hello, everyone, this is your Open Mind's News Brief for Monday, 54 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:21.240 December fifth, two thousand and eleven. Well, we'll start off with 55 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:30.120 a story about a Hollywood producer named Jay Herbert Klein, and he claims that 56 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.120 he has proof that UFOs exist. That is the claim he makes in his 57 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:39.439 new book Beyond Hollywood, a memoir of fate, luck and the Unexplained and 58 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:43.839 Living the American Dream. The book was announced last week via press release from 59 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.360 International Film Arts, a production company founded by Klein and his business partner, 60 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:53.360 movie star John Hall. According to the press release, Klein and Hall invented 61 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:59.199 things together, including a square anamorphic lens that Klein believed quote could photograph the 62 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:04.800 invisible UFOs, alien life forms, energy fields, and other unexplained phenomena. 63 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:11.600 The pair reportedly shot thousands of photographs using their special lens, and Quote frequently 64 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.639 captured images that could only be called out of this world. An example was 65 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:20.319 explained in the press release. The most notable example occurred in nineteen seventy seven, 66 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:25.160 when Klient Hall witnessed a test flight of the Space Shuttle Enterprise at Edward's 67 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.480 Air Force Base near the Mojave Desert in California. From his season of viewing 68 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:33.040 Section, Hall photographed the Space Shuttle before, during, and after the flight. 69 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:38.240 When Hall developed the film, he discovered that the photographs included images of 70 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:43.800 what appeared to be energy fields UFOs and humanoid forms that had been invisible to 71 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:48.079 the naked eye. Studding stunted his discovery, Hall submitted the images to one 72 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:53.680 of the nation's leading manufacturers of photographic equipment, and the company's expert could find 73 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:59.160 no explanation for the unusual phenomena visible in the photos. Hall died in nineteen 74 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:02.480 seventy nine, and Klin kept the photographs in a safe place until deciding to 75 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:08.680 write his memoir. Clin recently stated, I'm finally ready to share my incredible 76 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:13.160 story with the world. The two hundred and ninety six page book features approximately 77 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:17.439 one hundred photos taken by Clinen Hall, including many amazing shots of Unexplained Phenomena 78 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:23.199 Beyond Hollywood, A memoir of fate, Luck, the Unexplained, and Living 79 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:27.680 the American Dream is available now at Amazon and Alejandro. I've got to say, 80 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:32.079 I am a little more than halfway through with this book, but I 81 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:38.839 am engrossed in it right now because it does talk quite a bit about UFOs 82 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:44.279 and other mysterious things in photography. But it's just a cool book in general, 83 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:47.800 because this guy was a big time Hollywood producer back in the golden age 84 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:55.639 of Hollywood, and his just stories of rubbing elbows with some of the Hollywood 85 00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:00.920 grades. You know. There's a great story about Frank Sinatra of hijacking him 86 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:03.160 for his fortieth birthday. He just ran into Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra said, 87 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:09.680 meet me at the airport, and this guy said, why, I'm 88 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.399 busy. Where are we going? And Frank said, I'm going to show 89 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:14.879 you how to cut loose. So the guy said, you can't say no 90 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:18.199 to Frank Sinatra. So he went to Turpurbank airport met Sinatra, had no 91 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:20.959 idea where he was going, and then he got to hang out at Sinatra's 92 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:25.399 exclusive club, got to see the rat Pack perform and that's how he celebrated 93 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:28.879 his fortieth birthday. How cool. But he's got all these great stories. 94 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:31.480 He was very good friends with Jane Mansfield, and you know these big names. 95 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:36.000 Someone my age, you know, probably means less to than someone of 96 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:42.439 Antonio's age. But you know, people who watched all of these classic movies 97 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.720 back in Hollywood's golden era would love the stories in here just for the sake 98 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:53.000 of Hollywood in history. But then getting into some of the strange stories about 99 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.800 technology that he and his partner developed, and his partner developed a lot of 100 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:03.959 interesting technology before they formed their partnership, he was involved with Howard Hughes and 101 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:09.800 alleges that he created some technology that rubbed certain people the wrong way and was 102 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:16.959 actually stolen, like perpetual motion machines that Howard Hughes had built. These uh, 103 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:24.079 he was possibly involved, but no, his his partners partner had invented 104 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:30.560 a perpetual motion machine a car that ran off water and that car was mysteriously 105 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.759 stolen. So so there are some interesting stories in this book. So this 106 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:41.080 book is mostly about his life about what percentage of it is, well, 107 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:48.240 it's it's his story of of his his UH experiences in Hollywood, and probably 108 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:54.240 probably about half of the book talks about, you know, the mysterious stuff 109 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.120 that this this camera photograph and and different UFO stories and things like that. 110 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.240 Now it says there's like hundreds of pictures, right, like a hundreds of 111 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.879 the photos total in the book. Okay, but not all of the photos. 112 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.360 And no, they're not all of UFOs and strange things. There are 113 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:15.279 some of these photos in the book and they show things that look like you 114 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.080 know, apparitions, ghosts. There are some that look like they could be 115 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.799 UFOs in the sky. They're pretty interesting. But like I said, I 116 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.279 haven't finished finished the book yet, but I find it pretty exciting so far. 117 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:30.279 Well, what do you think of the pictures? Well, I think 118 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.600 some of them are pretty fascinating, especially some of the apparitions. They look 119 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:39.480 really bizarre. And again, these are things that we're not seeing when the 120 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:43.679 photos were taken, and they were only visible with this special lens. With 121 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:48.120 what the guy did who invented this lens which took side by side, you 122 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:52.960 know, just seconds apart photos with a regular lens and this special lens that 123 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:58.080 he invented, and so the special lens would pick up on things the regular 124 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.080 lens didn't. I wonder what took him so long, because they took these 125 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.240 pictures like in the seventies or something. Right, that's right, it's from 126 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:13.559 the seventies. But they seemed very hesitant because they didn't want it getting out. 127 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.440 It seems like they didn't want to tell people about it, you know, 128 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:20.200 for fear of ridicule, or perhaps because of these other projects this guy 129 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:26.519 had been involved in and certain people had already kind of been headed in for 130 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.080 him. So interesting, but I don't know. It's an interesting story, 131 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.519 and you know, these people were some major players in Hollywood. Yeah. 132 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.440 Cool. This guy was a big time inventor too, so it's a very 133 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.240 interesting story. I do suggest reading the book. It's it's fun so far, 134 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:48.759 but the pictures are mysterious and worth checking out. Cool, very cool, 135 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:50.159 and I think you would like it, Alejandro, Yeah, it sounds 136 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:56.600 neat all right. In other news, we have more UFO petitions. We 137 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.000 talked briefly about this last week, but in early November, the White House 138 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.519 officially responded to two UFO petitions on their wea the People section of the White 139 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:07.840 House website. The White House stated that the quote US government has no evidence 140 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:11.320 that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted 141 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:16.200 or engaged any member of the human race. Authors of the petition, as 142 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:18.440 well as some supporters of the petitions, were hoping for a different response. 143 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:22.879 As we discussed last week, Stephen Bassett oft the Paradigm Research Group, who 144 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.720 authored one of the initial petitions, announced his follow up petition that was submitted 145 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.759 to the WEA the People section of the White House website on December first, 146 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:37.000 calling for quote the Obama administration to demand a full congressional investigation of ufoet disclosure 147 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:41.639 efforts by the Clinton ostp the Rockefeller Initiative. But Bassket's petitions have received criticism 148 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:48.120 for their combative wording and conspiracy oriented nature. A new petition that went live 149 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.639 last week takes a different approach. Hollywood writer producer Bryce Zabel and UFO historian 150 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.399 author Richard Dolan are the authors of the petition, calling for the White House 151 00:11:56.440 --> 00:12:03.360 to quote investigate unidentified areas phenomena as reported by citizens, police, astronauts, 152 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:09.000 pilots, and the military. The detailed description of the petition reads, searching 153 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.799 for microbes on Mars and radio signals from space is not enough, we must 154 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:18.639 explain unidentified aerial phenomena or UAP right here on Earth. For six decades, 155 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:24.840 worldwide, credible witnesses, including President Carter and Reagan, have consistently described objects 156 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:30.000 with flight capabilities beyond our technology. UAP are often verified by radar and even 157 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.559 seen at nuclear sites by military officers. Given the national security implications, the 158 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:39.120 United States should conduct an independent investigation. This inquiry must transparently review the key 159 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:45.799 unsolved UAP reports with access to classified documents. It must have the power to 160 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:52.360 call witnesses and grant immunity. The findings should be publicly presented. So these 161 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:58.799 two petitions are currently live on the People section of the White House website and 162 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:05.519 as of this morning, I believe the Bassett petition had about fifteen hundred signatures 163 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:11.759 and the Dolan Zabel partition has about one thousand. Yeah, that's what I 164 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.279 saw not too long ago. So we'll see what happens. Twenty five thousand 165 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:22.559 signatures is a lot. I've got the a banner at UFO Daily News dot 166 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:28.399 com for the Dolansabel one because I like the wording. I think, you 167 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.799 know, you've got to kind of take some baby steps here and at least 168 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.360 get them to talk about UFOs in general before going all the way to the 169 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.080 et idea. And they're listening to me as a co sponsor on the side, 170 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:41.679 and I'm so proud of that, And so I think that's our best 171 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:48.720 shot to get a decent answer from the White House. I'm not so sure. 172 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.159 And I keep getting the feedback that people are a little confused with the 173 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:54.879 wording for the basket one. But really, you know, people sign both. 174 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:58.480 It doesn't hurt to sign both. If you appreciate them both and you're 175 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.399 into this object, go ahead and sign them both. That's that's awesome, 176 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.879 that's cool. So you know, no need to pick one over the other 177 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:09.799 or kind of scratch your head over it. So it's exciting. We'll see 178 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:15.200 what happened. I mean, they upped the ante or that the We certainly 179 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.279 have a tall road to cline, I guess. And yeah, you know, 180 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.440 already the fifth of December and they've only got twenty five more days. 181 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.799 So yeah, twenty five days, so that's about one thousand a day. 182 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.519 So come on, people, you're out there, they're listening to the show. 183 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:35.320 Yeah, if all of our listeners signed the petition, they would have 184 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.240 like half, we get more a lot more listeners in that on a monthly 185 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.559 basis, or at least listened to the show. Yeah, we can start 186 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:46.399 two petitions and fill them up, yep. But yeah, good luck to 187 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.600 them. We'll see what happens. Again, twenty five thousand is a big 188 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:54.360 number to get you and after five days or slightly more for the Brice Able, 189 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.960 I think there's went live on November thirtieth. I'm not sure, but 190 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.639 yeah, to only have one thousand after that many days, we've got to 191 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.320 pick up the pace. Yeah, so get out there, you know, 192 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.799 I mean, go ahead and sign it. It's fun. I mean, 193 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.039 you can see. We'll see what happened. And I do know that we 194 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.759 received many messages. They don't know. I'm not sure why people contacted us 195 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:20.320 with this issue, but there were a lot of issues reported to us about 196 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.200 the White House, about the way the people website, people reporting the page 197 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:28.080 timing out or not loading or giving them an error or something like that. 198 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.279 We have many people contact us with issues like that. But again, it's 199 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.879 not our petition, it's the white it's the White House website. They deal 200 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.639 with all the technical stuff. So if you try to sign the petition and 201 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.559 can't contact them, so your vote counts. Yep. Check it out. 202 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:48.039 All right, We'll move on to another story, Alejandro. And this is 203 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.519 a topic you and I discussed frequently on the show, and I like pointing 204 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:56.159 out these stories. Many journalists and people in the general public hold the inaccurate 205 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.159 belief that the search for intelligent extraterrestrial life elsewhere in the universe an enterprise conducted 206 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:06.360 only by overweight sci fi dorcs living in their parents' basements. The reality is 207 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:11.000 that respected scientists from around the world have been actively searching for extraterrestrials for decades. 208 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.120 A recent article published in Space Daily contained a wonderful quote, most scientists 209 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.200 think that we are not alone in the universe. Many of NASA's missions involved 210 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:25.960 searching for science of life in space. NASA released a publication on September twenty 211 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.559 eleven titled the Global Exploration Roadmap, which outlined plans to explore our Solar System, 212 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.120 and the first objective listed on this roadmap is quote search for live. 213 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.039 NASA also recently launched their latest Martyrs rover, the World's largest or the world 214 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:45.200 Yeah, the world's largest extraterrestrial explorer, that will comb the red planet's surface 215 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.440 looking for signs of life. But aside from NASA, scientists at universities and 216 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:53.799 major research institutions are actively participating in the extraterrestrial search. An article published last 217 00:16:53.799 --> 00:17:00.080 week in Harvard University's daily newspaper, The Harvard Crimson accurately states quote discovering extra 218 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:04.680 trustrial life is not a new goal on Mankind's to do list. The field 219 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:08.200 of astrobiology, the study of and search for life in the universe, has 220 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:12.079 gained momnsum in recent years, and new academic programs in the field are appearing 221 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.720 at universities around the country, and just last week, NASA and the Library 222 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:22.279 of Congress announced the establishment of the Borough Bloomberg NASA Library of Congress Chair in 223 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:27.160 Astrobiology, housed within the John W. Kluge Center at the Library of Congress. 224 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:33.559 According to the Harvard Crimson, Harvard physics professor and electrical engineer par Horowitz 225 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.119 is a leading figure in the search for intelligent extra trustrial life. He was 226 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.720 one of the early pioneers at the SETI Institute, which was founded by Frank 227 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.799 Drake, a doctoral alumnus of the Harvard Astronomy Department. Horowitz's SETI work primarily 228 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:51.759 involved using radio telescopes to listen to signals from aliens. Technology. There's another 229 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:56.920 Harvard professor, David Charbono is one of the world's leading experts on exoplanets, 230 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:02.319 and according to the Harvard Crimson he believes that within three years, man will 231 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:07.680 likely discover habitable planets on which life could thrive. Wow, and Harvard is 232 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.799 just one example illustrating the reality that leading scientists are participating in the search for 233 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.680 extraterrestrial life. At the point you and I tried to drive home, Alejandro, 234 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.640 I love that quote like that you had highlighted there that you know most 235 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.920 scientists, because you and I discussed that last week. I loved that quote 236 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:27.359 so much. Most scientists believe that intelligent extra for life is out there because 237 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:32.279 often when people the media are writing these stories, they have the impression that 238 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:36.359 that's not the case. When that is the case. It certainly is. 239 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:41.599 And you know, to build on that last story, there was an announcement 240 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:48.880 from NASA today that they discovered an alien planet within its host star's habitable zone 241 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:55.359 at a press conference today. As I said, this planet Kepler twenty two 242 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:57.960 B. That's a planet we've mentioned on the show before. Is the first 243 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:02.880 planet to be discovered in the habitable zone, the region where liquid water could 244 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:07.200 exist on the planet's surface. The discovery was made by NASA's planet hunting Kepler 245 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.240 space telescope, which also just discovered more than one thousand new planet candidates. 246 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.720 In February two thy eleven, the Kepler team reported fifty four potential planets in 247 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.480 the habitable zone, but of those fifty four, Kepler twenty two B is 248 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.160 the first to be confirmed. According to space dot Com, of the total 249 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.720 twenty three hundred and twenty six candidate planets that Kepler has found to date, 250 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.519 two hundred and seven are approximately Earth sized. More of them six hundred and 251 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:36.200 eighty are a bit larger than our planet, falling into this super Earth category. 252 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:40.279 Including Kepler's latest discoveries, the current number of candidate planets inhabitable zones of 253 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:44.000 their stars is forty eight, but again those are just candidates. Only Kepler 254 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.960 twenty two B has been confirmed. Kepler twenty two B orbits a star similar 255 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:51.839 to our own, and space dot Com explains that scientists believe the discovery of 256 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:56.680 this planet brings us quote one step closer to finding a planet like our own, 257 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:02.000 one which could conceivably harbor life. Cool. I like the way you 258 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.680 say habitable. Habitable, just kind of have to let that one role otherwise 259 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.119 you're going to flubb Yeah, exciting, we said habitable on this show so 260 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:15.240 many times, so yeah, kind of kind of have some practice inable. 261 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:25.839 But I have a story here all one hundred that is breaking news, breaking 262 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:33.640 news here on Open Mindes Radio, the same story that all our colleague Antonio 263 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:41.000 Juneus just broke today. And he just finished writing this story before the show 264 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:44.839 started. I haven't had a chance to get it posted to our website a 265 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:48.799 couple of minutes to tell us about it. But the story will go live. 266 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.160 You can check it tomorrow. But a German citizen, Frank Reiitmeier, 267 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.440 was bothered by the fact that citizens of other nations like France, England, 268 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.720 Canada and the US could access some government UFO files, but Germany's government hasn't 269 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.839 made the UFO files available to the public. He specifically wanted to access the 270 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.359 confidential study prepared by the research services of the Department of Science and Foreign Relations 271 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:14.480 of the German Funstead the Federal Parliament. So what did Frank do? He 272 00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:19.359 sued the government and the Berlin Administrative Court fighted with him on the matter. 273 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.119 On the matter, the defendant, the German Federal Parliament, is of course 274 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:29.640 appealing the ruling. But this guy basically wanted to see this UFO study that 275 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:33.880 had been leaked some time ago, this study from two thousand and nine, 276 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:38.319 and the court decided that because all the guy wanted to do was read it, 277 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:44.240 there was nothing wrong with that. So they're ordering the Federal Parliament to 278 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:48.279 release this study for people to read. Yeah, that's pretty cool that he 279 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.720 sued the government in one. We'll see what happens next though, because just 280 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.400 because you see the government and win doesn't mean you're going to get what you 281 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.799 want. Unfortunately. That is so true. Interesting, Yeah, an actual 282 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.759 government being sued over UFO file. So yeah, it's cool because I thought 283 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:10.119 that that story was not true. I had read a little blurb that right, 284 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:14.720 but it was very vague, and so it's great that Antonio did some 285 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:19.680 more research and you guys or there'll be a story up by tomorrow, right 286 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:23.279 And yes, tomorrow tomorrow, very early morning, it will be on our 287 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:29.039 website Openminds dot tv. Yes, all the credit goes to Antonio Juneus on 288 00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:32.519 this. I was with you. I thought at first this story was fake 289 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:37.200 because the initial source I saw, the English source was not a very credible 290 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.640 source. But he did more digging and found that this is all over German 291 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.240 news right now, all over the major media. Cool, so it's gonna 292 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.400 be a great story. Check it out on open minds dot Tv. He 293 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:51.440 really did an in depth as much as he could into this story. So 294 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:53.640 sweet. All right, Well, Alejandro, that is it for the news. 295 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.519 Remember to check out all these stories and so many more at openminds dot 296 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.160 tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McClellan, your Open 297 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:07.160 Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to Julejandro theank you Jason a 298 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.039 couple other things. Just before we get into our interview, I give you 299 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.039 an update on my Huffington Post stories. I wrote one on the Ridley Scott 300 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.319 and I think Jason had well. Jason had written one that we talked about 301 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:23.160 last week, and so I expanded on the whole Ridley Scott and the ancient 302 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:30.920 aliens theory and how that theory helped to inspire that a lot of the new 303 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:36.759 movie. Promethea said he's doing an alien Universe movie doesn't like to call it 304 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.039 a prequil, but it's about the space jockey, so it's kind of cool. 305 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:44.400 And then I'm writing another one on Spilberg. There's some stories out there 306 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.160 about Spilberg and Et and how at first his idea that these Et was going 307 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.599 to be a bad guy and a mean little critter. And we'll go more 308 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:57.160 into that because it's based on his idea for what he wanted to do real 309 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:03.319 alleged alien k So you can read more about that too. Very cool. 310 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:06.880 Maybe we'll talk more about it next week, but we want to get into 311 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:11.279 the interview, so let's go ahead and get Micah on the phone. I'm 312 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:17.480 really happy to be talking to him. I am happy to have on the 313 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:21.359 show. Micah Hanks, Mike, are you there, absolutely, Allehandra, 314 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:25.279 thank you for having me on. Well, you know, I first came 315 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:32.920 across some of your material from Ryan Sprague, who writes for Open Minds magazine, 316 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:37.319 and he had included you in an interview about UFOs and the current state 317 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:45.759 of things and kind of taking you as one a younger perspective on things because 318 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.519 as you know, you know, for the most part, the crowd is 319 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.559 a little older I mean, what do you think, what do you think 320 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:57.400 the differences are between the age in researchers. Well, I'll tell you this, 321 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.720 many of my mentors in the field, you know, have been people 322 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:04.519 like Brad Steiger, you know, Lauren Coleman. Because, as many of 323 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.559 the listeners may know, although I'm primarily, you know, kind of concentrated 324 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.599 on the field of uphology, I do dabble in other areas and over the 325 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:15.160 years have had a lot of different interests. Brad Steiger, who I mentioned, 326 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.519 is one who's very much in that kind of you know domain in terms 327 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.519 of, you know, really having a hand in all different areas of the 328 00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.720 unexplained. But again, you know, Brad of course also edited the official 329 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.519 publications of Project Blue Book when they were released as a mass market paperback, 330 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:33.720 so you know, he also was well known as a eupologist. But you 331 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.359 know, when we look at the demographics, so to speak, and the 332 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:38.640 age differences between people, I think that the thing is is that in this 333 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.359 modern society, while there are a lot of younger researchers like myself and I'm 334 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.440 only twenty eight years old, that really blows a lot of people away with 335 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.039 that, I guess just because I don't put that out there a whole lot, 336 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:51.720 and there is a preconception that most people who are doing this are probably 337 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:53.400 going to be middle aged, you know, maybe in their forties or older. 338 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:56.240 I think that it may have something to do with, you know, 339 00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.279 kind of the media and the way that media is presented, and the way 340 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:03.559 that culture has kind of wrapped itself around that these days, with social networking 341 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.319 and things like that. You know, I noticed that younger people maybe aren't 342 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:10.839 more involved in things like politics and the like, but they certainly are involved 343 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.480 today in a very different way than how they were several decades ago. I 344 00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:18.240 think it's very much the same thing also with you know, unexplained phenomenon and 345 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.559 upology alike. I think that people aren't involved, maybe any less, perhaps 346 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.119 not anymore, but it's a different kind of involvement, and I think that 347 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.640 it's more generalized as a result of, again, the way that media tends 348 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.240 to kind of approach these sorts of subjects and the availability of social media and 349 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.599 social networking websites. People put things out there. It's kind of anecdotal. 350 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.480 It's entertaining, but a lot of people don't take it incredibly seriously, you 351 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.039 know, to be somewhat of the younger age group. You know, I 352 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.119 pride myself and being one who does try to take it very seriously and from 353 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.680 a pretty journalistic approach to studying this sort of thing. Yeah, that's what 354 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:57.599 I thought was interesting about Ryan's story. He interviewed a lot of people and 355 00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:02.319 kind of, like you said, I agree with you and some of the 356 00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.359 things you were saying. Nick Pope, who although he's kind of one of 357 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:11.200 the old school guys, I think he has a more modern view of things. 358 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.119 But like you said, it's not that there's not people involved. I 359 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.400 think there are. I think with the ratings from some of these television shows 360 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:23.000 like Ancient Aliens or you know, fact or fake that the audience is there. 361 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.000 The people are there, but they're looking at things differently. You know, 362 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.720 you have people who I love to death. But he was the perfect 363 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:34.720 representative of kind of the raute old guy almost. And I can say that 364 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:37.720 because I know he has a great sense of humor. But Jim Mars in 365 00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.960 that story was kind of the guy. Oh the kids don't pay attention. 366 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.480 If they would quit getting on their computer and look up from their computer or 367 00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:48.680 their phone once in a while, they'll discover things. And a lot of 368 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.279 people are looking at in the crowds at the conferences and that that the meetings, 369 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.000 and they're saying, where are the young people? But that's not their 370 00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:57.640 things. You know, they don't want to go and sit in a lecture 371 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.680 as much as they want to read stories. Like what you do? You 372 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.680 know you do podcasting, you do online? So do we and we do. 373 00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:10.640 There are these large online audiences and you're able to reach a lot of 374 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.200 people. Yes, absolutely, And I have to say again, you know, 375 00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.799 tossing an endorsement out here real quick. Your website is one of the 376 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:18.200 very best on the web. You know, I've enjoyed it thoroughly, even 377 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:21.960 prior to this interview. And the other thing too is that, you know, 378 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.200 I think that the podcasting element this is so important because people there is 379 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.640 such a great demand these days for audio content or you know, video content 380 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.960 as well. But I think that audio is still kind of kind of has 381 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.559 its own niche we'll say, because people are really interested in having things that 382 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.640 they can download, you know, at their own leisure, on demand, 383 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:42.440 as they say, and take it with them. You know, Terrestrial radio 384 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:45.119 is always going to I think, have you know a certain following because you 385 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.079 know, it's free and people can jump in their car and they can turn 386 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:52.599 on radio. But with the availability of podcasting and the ability to download audio 387 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.920 in all different kinds of genres and formats onto your smartphone or onto your iPhone, 388 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.559 your iPad or whatever, and take it with you on the road, 389 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:00.759 you know, I think that, you know, or take it with you 390 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.000 on a job, take it with you to the gym anyplace, you know. 391 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.240 I think. You know, I even get emails from people who listen 392 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:07.200 to my podcast, The Grailean Report, and they're like, yeah, we 393 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.880 sit around you know, we listened to it together, you know, my 394 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:12.440 wife and I right every Tuesday night. You know. So it's great because 395 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:17.240 I think that there is an accessibility that this provides for people, and that 396 00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:21.519 makes the podcasting format particularly important because people will seek it out and they will 397 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:22.799 take it with them and they will listen. They're not going to miss it 398 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:26.400 because they know where to find it and they can listen whenever they want to. 399 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:29.440 Yeah, it blows my mind. We put a lot of effort, 400 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:32.480 like you know, we did the UFO Congress that used to be involved with 401 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.519 movefin and we'd do that conference. We'd put a lot of effort into those 402 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:41.599 conferences and you would have you know, like for instances, last year we 403 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.519 had a thousand to two thousand people at the UFO Congress. That was great. 404 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.799 But we on a weekly basis with the podcast we Meet, we reach 405 00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:53.240 much much, much more people than that. And even though it's kind of 406 00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:59.559 quiet and in the background, really this is where you know you're you're we're 407 00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:04.359 reaching masses on a regular basis and there are those people out there. Oh 408 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.839 yes, absolutely, most certainly, and any way that people can be reached, 409 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.200 I think that's important. I mean, and a great example of this 410 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.599 is Richard Dolan, you know, has just together a brand new and I'm 411 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.640 sure you probably were going to bring this up, but the new petition, 412 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.880 which I think, in my personal opinion, is worded so well it will 413 00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:23.960 get around a lot of the semantic arguments that were brought forth, you know, 414 00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:30.559 following the first you know, petition that the Paradigm Research Group put out. 415 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.160 Richard Dolan's done this and he's got videos up on the on the web 416 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.240 and what I'm sincerely hoping including two podcasts like this and my own and others, 417 00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:41.599 you know that people will tap into their to their crowd, to their 418 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.640 fan base and the listenership, and that they'll say, no, listen, 419 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.599 this one could be taken seriously. Go check it out. It's worth your 420 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:51.079 time to take five minutes, you know, sign up sign this petition. 421 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:53.039 You know, I'll just be frank with you. I didn't take the first 422 00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:56.200 one incredibly seriously because of the wording it. It kind of jumped to the 423 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:02.440 conclusion and used that extraterrestrial word. UFOs may represent extraterrestrials for all we know, 424 00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:06.000 But the thing is that scientifically we have to also play by the rules 425 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.319 of the establishment, who aren't going to endorse that kind of an idea openly. 426 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.880 When you use the term UFO, that's a much harder thing to discount. 427 00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:15.720 It's a much harder time you're going to have saying that UFOs don't exist, 428 00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.880 because we do see things in the sky, and there are government documents 429 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.839 that are released every year around the world that detail that. This new petition 430 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:25.920 I think is going to do a much better job. And what I hope 431 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.279 is that you know, the podcasts and that the crowds you know who download 432 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.440 these kinds of programs you know well, will be educated and you know, 433 00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:36.279 hear about this and that they'll be encouraged to go and sign that petition. 434 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.680 This one might actually get somewhere. You know. I was going to bring 435 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:44.039 that up because it is, especially among the listeners we have here, a 436 00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:48.319 little controversial, you know, because you know, people have their different perspectives 437 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:53.279 about this field and which perspective to take and how to go forward. And 438 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:59.000 I was going to ask you because you know, I talked with Nick Redfern 439 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.880 last week and we'll more into that, because I know you guys have some 440 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:09.599 similar perspective on things. But the I feel like you when I saw and 441 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:14.640 I had, you know, Stephen Bassett on and we talked about it, 442 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.480 I did feel like you said that, you know, working with the establishment, 443 00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:23.720 I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think that there are 444 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:30.480 some some things that we can accomplish by doing that, and when we are 445 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:32.400 kind of stepping forward. And I was challenging Bassett, you know, if 446 00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:37.599 you went to let's say, one of these politicians and and you had to 447 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:42.160 tell them there is group for extraterrestrial visitation, what would you cite? And 448 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.000 he kind of said, I'd send him to the web to the to the 449 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:50.039 internet because there's so much evidence. You have to be really more particular and 450 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:54.480 more, you know, send me more exact I think, and I agree 451 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:59.359 with you with this new petition. It's getting at more of the root of 452 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:06.680 just sticking to that there is an existence of a phenomena, and there we 453 00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:13.480 have. We do have some very very very credible photographs, witnesses in a 454 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:16.960 much stronger case that the phenomena exists in the first place, and the mainstream 455 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:21.759 hasn't gone there yet. So let's take that first step. Oh absolutely, 456 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:22.799 I agree with you one hundred percent. You know, again, if if 457 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:25.559 someone were to ask me if you needed to try and convince, you know, 458 00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:30.000 an elected official or someone like that that UFOs existed, well, you 459 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.039 know, again, first of all, I'm not going to use that expression 460 00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:36.559 extraterrestrial because I think that there are too many cultural stigmas attached to that. 461 00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:38.839 I also recognize that if I'm going to go speak to my congressman or my 462 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:43.240 senator for instance, you know, and I bring up UFOs, they have 463 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.920 a cultural obligation, by virtue of being in politics, to be very dismissive 464 00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:52.319 toward those kinds of statements and those kind of approaches from the media and from 465 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:53.519 their constituency. I mean, that's just how it is. You know. 466 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:57.839 We've had a few exceptions. I think Barry Goldwater, of course, you 467 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.599 know, had taken quite an interest in uf and a number of US presidents, 468 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.880 Bill Clinton, you know, had had of course, you know, 469 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.199 asked to think I think it was web hubble, you know, and Jim 470 00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:10.199 Mars talked about in his in his book Rule by Secrecy. He said, 471 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:13.360 I want you to find out two things, you know, who killed JFK 472 00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.679 and what's going on with UFOs. Jimmy Carter also asked about it. Ronald 473 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.360 Reagan, you know, said that he had followed on when he was governor 474 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.880 of California and Carter's interest and from you know, an incident that had occurred 475 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.519 with him when he was the governor of Georgia. So there have been politicians 476 00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:29.840 that have been interested. But culturally that is something that I think that again, 477 00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:34.239 in that mainstream political spectrum, you're encouraged to down play. So again, 478 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.119 you know, you have to be very careful. And I don't think 479 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.400 it's a bad thing at all. In fact, I think we cannot look 480 00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.719 at it as a bad thing in terms of you know, quote unquote playing 481 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:44.760 by their rules. We have to in order to progress. And so, 482 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:49.320 first of all, if anyone told me you've got to convince Politician A that 483 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:52.280 there is evidence, you know, supporting, like you said, Alejandro, 484 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:54.360 some sort of phenomenon, the first thing I would say is, well, 485 00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:59.360 we don't use the extraterrestrial term. We realized that there is indeed a stigma 486 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.280 attached to that. But you can talk about UFOs all day, and I'm 487 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.199 not going to direct them to something as ambiguous as the Internet. I'm going 488 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:07.920 to say, listen, go to and I'll give you a link. Go 489 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.719 to the nssa's website where they have disclosed a multitude of documents about UFOs, 490 00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.960 and you guys have some excellent articles about those at your website. You go 491 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.880 to the FBI dot gov website. They also have a portal to Unexplained Phenomenon 492 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:22.320 that deals with a variety of things, not just UFOs. The Central Intelligence 493 00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:28.039 Agency also has one. If these varying branches of intelligence within our own US 494 00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.719 government have already taken an interest in these subjects and have already disclosed some information 495 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:37.000 about them. That's all the evidence that these elected officials should need, and 496 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.000 if anyone doesn't take that seriously, then they're not taking the intelligence gathering process 497 00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:45.199 seriously at all, because these intelligence organizations are the very ones who've laid the 498 00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:49.360 groundwork and who have engaged in that sort of research for decades already. Yep, 499 00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.079 that's a good point. Now that we're on this subject of these petitions, 500 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:58.639 of course, Bassett is putting out a second petition, and his is 501 00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:06.599 focus around calling for congressional investigations into what you had mentioned, Bill Clinton and 502 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.880 his interests along with that with Rockefeller, who was really trying to get Bill 503 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:16.639 Clinton to do more research. How do you feel that the wording of the 504 00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:23.800 Bryces Abel Actually and Richard Dolan petition is better than that? Well, they 505 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:29.639 don't ever say extraterrestrial in their petition, and I was reviewing both documents earlier 506 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:36.480 today. I'll tell you this the new petition that the Paradigm Group has released 507 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:42.480 against his UFO slash et this time, I don't think they made, you 508 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.199 know, much emphasis on the UFO angle in the first petition at all. 509 00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:49.320 It was almost entirely references to extraterrestrials and the like. Now they kind of 510 00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:52.079 realized because you know, among others. You know, another contributor to the 511 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.840 Huffington Post was Leslie Kane who said, look, you know, using that 512 00:36:55.920 --> 00:37:00.679 word extraterrestrial over and over and over again in that petition, what did you 513 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:02.000 expect the response was going to be. And I think that you know, 514 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:06.320 they've kind of caught when of that and realized now that you know, things 515 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.239 have to be kind of reworded in a way that's a little more palpable if 516 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:15.559 they want to get an official again, an official response. Dolan and Bryce's 517 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:22.639 petition I think is better because it although it says UFOs and UAP referring only 518 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:25.559 to unidentified you know, aerial phenomenon and you know, flying objects that cannot 519 00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:30.239 be identified, they never make mention of extraterrestrial life, except for the opening 520 00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:34.119 sentence, which talks about, you know, looking for life on Mars and 521 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.679 things like that isn't enough. And I agree, while there's a potential that 522 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.800 UFOs may represent extraterrestrial life, we can't rule that out. We just don't 523 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:45.920 have, according to our own scientific methodology, evidence that supports that. Now, 524 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:49.960 there's a lot of kind of circumstantial evidence that points us in that direction. 525 00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:52.760 But like Michio Kaku has said it's funny. I saw him during an 526 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:55.440 interview and they asked him, they said, you know, you say UFOs 527 00:37:55.599 --> 00:38:00.079 exist. Does this mean that extraterrestrial life exists? And he says, well, 528 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:02.840 yes, And the thing is is that we've looked at all these different 529 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:08.320 options and the most likely is that some of these UFO sidings do indeed involve 530 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:12.800 an intelligence from you know, outside planet Earth. And so he said, 531 00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:15.440 so the anchor asking the questions said, well, doctor Kaku, does this 532 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.239 mean that we have proof of et life elsewhere in the stars? And he 533 00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.000 says, well, no, not at all, because we don't have, 534 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.360 you know, a biological sample. You know, we can't we don't have 535 00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:28.280 something that we can extract DNA from, and so without that, we still 536 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.559 don't have proof. And that's pretty well worded. Again, it's very likely 537 00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:37.719 that some UFO phenomenon could represent extraterrestrial intelligence from outside our planet. But the 538 00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:42.320 thing is is we don't have that biological sample to our knowledge to support that. 539 00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:45.440 And when we asked for that very thing in the last petition, we 540 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:46.679 saw what the White House response was going to be. So we have to 541 00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:50.880 take things one step at the time. UFO is the keyword. That's the 542 00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.599 word that is used throughout the petition by Dolan, and I think that that's 543 00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:58.480 going to be more effective than actually garnering attention. You know what. I 544 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:02.360 think you brought up a great example there with mitchi Okaku, because here we're 545 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.360 talking about a mainstream scientist, and I think the thought process that you know, 546 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:13.039 you shared right there, it's similar to the thought process that mainstream science 547 00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:16.519 is going to take if they take UFO seriously, and that is to first 548 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:22.000 look at the phenomena, look at the likely because that's what you know. 549 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:27.079 If we are able to make people take that first step, especially mainstream science, 550 00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:31.119 to take UFO seriously, I think then they will come up with our 551 00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:38.679 hypothesis as a hypotheside or how do you say, multiple seeds you know, 552 00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:44.320 as to what this phenomena might be all about. And I think everybody would 553 00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:50.639 agree that the extraterrestrial hypothesis seems kind of one of the forefront it's, you 554 00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:54.000 know, the first possibly most likely explanation. I think that'll come to the 555 00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:59.199 surface by itself. You don't have to shove that down people's throats. I 556 00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:05.519 think it's it's an natural occurrence, Although when it comes to UFOs, there 557 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:12.280 are other ideas about what might be behind some of this phenomena. And we 558 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.519 talked about this quite a bit with Nick g Redfurn, and I know you 559 00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:21.039 have some unique perspectives there as well. I know you look at paranormal all 560 00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:28.039 around, not just UFOs. What are your ideas on how likely the extraterrestrial 561 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:32.719 hypothesis is the answer or what are the other possibilities. Oh, I'll tell 562 00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:38.480 you this again. To be skeptical, I always like to draw this distinction 563 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:43.880 between things. If you say you're a skeptic and you have an interest in 564 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:50.079 the paranormal or the unexplained, I think that rodolphan first of all, people 565 00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:52.039 who are the quote unquote believers, And this is a game where you start 566 00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:57.559 to see how much culture is associated with all this. People who are, 567 00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:00.480 you know, quote unquote believers will kind of point the finger at you and 568 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:04.199 say, oh, great, you know you're one of these guys trying to 569 00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.679 disprove everything. When we're skeptically minded, this doesn't mean that we have to 570 00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:12.440 try and disprove anything. What that means is that we cannot commit ourselves to 571 00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.920 belief without evidence to support it first. That's really all that means. So 572 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:21.960 when I look at circumstances with regard to, you know, studying a multitude 573 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.079 of different phenomenon, I try not to, you know, gravitate toward a 574 00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:31.960 conventional notion of what any particular phenomenon may be when there's not hard scientific evidence 575 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:35.480 to back that up. I love it when people come up to me, 576 00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:37.639 and this happened just the other day. You know, someone on the web 577 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.280 had talked about, how, you know, my podcasts, for instance, 578 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:45.199 are garbage because I'm talking about UFOs and things like that, and the reason 579 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:49.880 that it's garbage is because there's no scientific evidence to substantiate anything you're talking about. 580 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:52.159 Well, first of all, there certainly is evidence to substantiate UFOs. 581 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.760 We've already gone over where you can find that evidence, so let's not be 582 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:59.039 redundant here. But the thing is that, again I pointed out to this 583 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:00.719 individual, I said, I've never made the claim, and this is what 584 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.159 this person asserted. They said that, you know, there's no proof that 585 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:07.840 these things are extraterrestrial, and if anything, they're probably secret government craft. 586 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:10.920 And I said, well, you know, if you listened to my podcast, 587 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.360 you would know, as my listeners do that. I don't accept, 588 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:21.159 you know, this, this conventional notion that UFOs absolutely, without question represent 589 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:24.119 extraterrestrial intelligence, you know. And again the reason why is because there's not 590 00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:29.920 scientific evidence that supports that. I, you know, respect the likelihood, 591 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:32.239 but I don't commit to belief. Now that said, when we look at 592 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:36.679 the other alternatives, well, what could they be? Then? As stated 593 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.079 by this individual and by many others, and I've even gravitated toward this sum 594 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:45.119 myself in the past, there probably are a number of government projects, you 595 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:51.239 know, secret government projects that involved you know, advanced aircraft and even weaponry 596 00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:55.639 and things like that that have at times been mistaken for And you really can't 597 00:42:55.639 --> 00:43:00.159 mistake something for something else that you don't know what the the alternative is to 598 00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:04.119 begin with, you know, we call all these things UFOs. A secret 599 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:08.079 government craft by virtue of being unidentified is also a UFO. There's the physical 600 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:13.679 anomaly angle that can be appended to this as well, the notion that for 601 00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:20.199 whatever reason, there may be what we might call extraterrestrial or even interdimensional intelligences 602 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:25.199 that could be in some way, shape or form interacting with our dimension or 603 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:29.559 if you want to remove dimensions from the equation altogether. It could be you 604 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:34.199 know, some sort of some sort of intelligence, some sort of sentient consciousness 605 00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:42.239 trying to contact our three dimensional perspective from kind of a higher level of reality, 606 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:45.840 perhaps you know, pre material level of reality. So Jacques Vallet has 607 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.559 gotten into some of this, and also an associated mind by the nome of 608 00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:54.280 doctor Maxim Camera and these kind of approaches to studying UFOs, I think, 609 00:43:54.559 --> 00:44:00.199 force the mind to reconsider the possibilities and thereby expand our own notion of what 610 00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:06.800 not just any particular phenomenon may be, but what our role is three dimensional 611 00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:10.760 organic beings in reality as we perceive it may be. And I have gravitated 612 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:15.239 more and more toward that approach, to trying to understand the greater reality and 613 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:19.719 how UFOs play into that. And when you look at it from that perspective, 614 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.159 I found that you will tend to notice that there are a lot of 615 00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:29.400 really nuts and bolts reports that to me are without question some kind of intelligently 616 00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:34.519 controlled technological craft and probably originating from here on planet Earth. There are a 617 00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:37.159 number of reports that are far stranger and can't be so easily explained. But 618 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:42.599 again this points too, I think something that is, if anything, something 619 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:47.880 that will force us to kind of redefine our perspectives on reality and in order 620 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:52.239 to greatly appreciate this and of course to understand it and it's totality. Eventually 621 00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.159 more people are going to have to think like that, in my opinion, 622 00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:59.400 and it's not going to get us anywhere. It continues saying that UFOs don't 623 00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.760 exist in that this no evidence for them, because that simply isn't the case 624 00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:07.800 either. Yeah, you know, when some of these points that you bring 625 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:13.440 up some of the a lot of people will and some of the listeners may 626 00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:17.920 get frustrated that, you know, people aren't test adhering to this extra treasural 627 00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:22.559 answer and that's it, and that's all there is. But I think there 628 00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:25.480 is something we can learn from science is that when you don't know what something 629 00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:31.000 is, it's very dangerous to pin it down and say this is what it 630 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:37.360 is until you have that proof of what's going on. Because often we've seen 631 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:44.360 in science that when they observe as phenomena, you put forward theories, and 632 00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:47.840 sometimes some theories get very popular. Dark matter, for instance, we don't 633 00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:52.519 know what the heck that is. There's so much disagreement. But the media 634 00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:54.559 is always talking about dark matter. Dark matter. We don't know that that 635 00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:59.559 exists. We don't know the answer towards these phenomena that they're seeing with gravity 636 00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:07.000 and space, and the answers that we find are typically much much more complicated 637 00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:12.000 than we ever could have imagined. And I certainly agree that you know, 638 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:16.199 that could be the case in dealing with the UFO phenomena or abduction and these 639 00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:22.159 other phenomenas that people are experiencing. Oh absolutely, And with regard to abduction, 640 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.679 I'll just say this to keep it short, that although many people who 641 00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:30.000 have claimed to have been abducted have been you know, also people who claim 642 00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:35.400 that they've been taken aboard what appeared to be a flying saucer or other you 643 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:39.119 know, similar aircraft describing UFO reports, I think that again it can even 644 00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:43.280 get dangerous. And see this will probably sound absurd to a lot of people 645 00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.039 who've read and followed ufology you know, for a number of years, like 646 00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:50.360 myself, even a number of decades, But I think that it can become 647 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:55.679 dangerous when we look at alien abduction solely as some kind of phenomenon that is 648 00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:02.119 directly associated with UFOs, Because we cannot necessarily draw a parallel between the two. 649 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:05.679 Now, I will say that, you know, there are some abduction 650 00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:13.599 reports that are very compelling. The Hickson encounter there from Pasco Goula, what 651 00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:16.400 was it a Mississippi back in nineteen seventy three, where Charles Hickson and Calvin 652 00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:20.760 Parker were abducted. That they'd been sitting on a and this is well known, 653 00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.440 so I don't have to get into all the details. But they were 654 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:25.039 sitting, of course, on a pier, and they were fishing next to 655 00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:28.679 a bayou. Saw a blue light. The first thing to point out here 656 00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.440 is that, you know, again according to FAA standards, you're not supposed 657 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:36.239 to have blue lights. Typically on aircraft you'll see red and green and white 658 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:38.760 lights. But again, this blue object comes down, hovers over the bayou, 659 00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:43.119 and then these beings come out, They approach Hickson and Parker, take 660 00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:45.599 them on board, and you know, perform these kind of examinations on them 661 00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:51.079 and then release these gentlemen. They weren't unlike a lot of you know, 662 00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:55.000 stories told by abductees Hickson and Parker. They weren't you know, lying in 663 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:59.079 their beds at night. They didn't, you know, have a missing time 664 00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:00.960 period of From the part of me, I think that they became very disoriented 665 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:06.960 during this experience because of the terrifying nature of it. But they literally were 666 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.719 sitting there, they saw the object come down, they were taken aboard, 667 00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:14.039 and then they were brought back by these strange looking, slightly anthropomorphic beings, 668 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:15.840 and they were both so scared afterward that they first said, you know, 669 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:20.039 we're not going to tell anybody about this, So that was you know, 670 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:22.920 and then they of course werelnded and went to the sheriff, and only after 671 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:23.880 going to the newspaper. You know, they were going to try and get 672 00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:25.880 the story out, and it was all over the ap the next day that 673 00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:30.480 these two minute allegedly been taken aboard an object from space. But a lot 674 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:37.199 of abduction reports don't begin the same way that Calvin Parker and Charles Hickson's story 675 00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:38.880 did they. You know, the abductee typically is lying in bed, they 676 00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:42.880 might feel a presence, they may wake up on board the craft. There 677 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:46.320 are a number of instances where people literally have the experience and there's no mention 678 00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:50.760 of a flying saucer. But you know, I think that it's difficult again 679 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.559 looking at the multitude of data out there, it becomes difficult not to associate 680 00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:59.559 those two. And I'm not saying that they aren't related, but what I 681 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:01.920 would say is that if we want to understand the phenomenon better, we should 682 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:07.320 probably look at them independently before we consider, you know, lumping them all 683 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:10.559 together and saying that this is the sum totality of what we understand about UFO. 684 00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:13.760 As part of it is that there are these aliens that take people on 685 00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.880 board these spaceships. For all we know, there may not be any kind 686 00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:21.119 of a you know, an alien gray as we know what this could be. 687 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:22.360 And this is getting kind of far out there, but I think it's 688 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:28.880 worthy of speculation. It could be that an advanced intelligence literally projects images of 689 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:35.800 abduction encounters into the mind of an alleged abductee, because the attempt at communication 690 00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:40.760 with a three dimensional being like a human in relation to this advanced intelligence may 691 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:45.079 be so great that this wouldn't even be something that would be perceptible without the 692 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:50.199 apparent intrusion in a physical sense into that individual's reality. And so it could 693 00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:54.440 be that the entire abduction scenario is actually a kind of a holographic area or 694 00:49:54.480 --> 00:50:00.159 a mental construct that, although it's indeed very terrifying strange for many people, 695 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.679 it's something that humans can relate to better in terms of trying to reconcile with 696 00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.000 a greater intelligence than our own. Now I'm just speculating, but that again 697 00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:12.559 is one interpretation. If we are indeed going to have some sort of interaction 698 00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:16.079 with a greatly, greatly more advanced intelligence than ours, in all likelihood, 699 00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:21.159 we wouldn't recognize it as being an intelligence to begin with unless they came down 700 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.719 to our level. And I'll bring up Michio Kaku's one of his examples again. 701 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:28.599 Here he says, you can see an entire colony of ants by the 702 00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:30.400 side of the road, and they're going up to their business. They've got 703 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:35.199 their little nest and everything two feet from a major highway, and they're virtually 704 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:38.679 unaware of the fact that there is a vastly greater technologically oriented intelligence that's winning 705 00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:44.719 by them literally just two feet away. So very well, maybe the same 706 00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:51.199 for humans. That there could be a vastly more intelligent species that is constantly 707 00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:53.159 interacting with us, but they have to level with us in such a way 708 00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:57.119 that we can perceive them, and that could be the very summation of the 709 00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:00.599 abduction experience for all we know, but we really don't, and therefore we 710 00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:02.199 have to kind of break things apart. And I advocate looking at abduction and 711 00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:07.480 UFO reports separately from one another for that reason, right, And I agree 712 00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:15.400 as far as when you have an abduction experience that doesn't include a UFO siding 713 00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:20.400 like some do, like you mentioned Hickson, there are others. There's Pasca, 714 00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:23.079 Goula, Betty and Barney Hill. But and however, like you said, 715 00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:28.000 many of those situations don't. The other problem that I have is a 716 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.280 lot of people seem to kind of brush off it's hard to reconcile that the 717 00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:39.920 messages that people get during these experiences or in simple contact E cases, they're 718 00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:46.960 different. There's it's not like the you know, the general what happens to 719 00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:51.840 them is similar. However, the message is in the details of who these 720 00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:58.159 beings are and why they're here and where they come from are always vastly different. 721 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.159 And sometimes people will come to me saying, well, why don't you 722 00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:04.679 talk more about this case, Why don't you believe in this case? Why 723 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:07.679 don't you believe in that case? And it's not that I don't believe in 724 00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.639 any of them. I'm open to all of it. But how can I 725 00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:15.360 put all my eggs in one basket or put my eggs in all these different 726 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:21.639 baskets in these when the story the stories don't jive. How can all of 727 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:24.880 these different things be true? Absolutely? And the other thing too, is 728 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:30.440 that so many of the abduction reports, in terms specifically of the information that 729 00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:37.559 is supplied to the abductee, it often is so personal in terms of the 730 00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:42.239 significance of the information with regard to the individuals received it. I mean, 731 00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:45.960 a classic example that has been mentioned so many times is what was described in 732 00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:51.320 The and Recent Affair, the book by Ray Fowler, which talked about how 733 00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:55.840 Betty the abductee herself was literally taken to what she perceived to be an alien 734 00:52:55.960 --> 00:52:59.639 environment. I'll stop sort of setting a planet, but it very well may 735 00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:01.880 have been, you know, at least in her perception it was, and 736 00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:05.920 that you know, there were little alien crititors crawling all around and everything, 737 00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:07.639 and she was taking kind of up this conveyor belt that brought her before a 738 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:13.519 large bird that then caught on fire turned into you know, I think a 739 00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:15.840 pile of ashes from which this worm crawled out and then she heard a voice 740 00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:22.639 speak to her and use obviously what were obviously Judeo Christian overtones and references to 741 00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.280 God and Jesus. And of course Betty, as I recall, being a 742 00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:30.960 devout Catholic, it's very interesting to me that she had this profound Christian experience, 743 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:35.760 and even the symbology associated with the bird burning up that sounds very much 744 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:40.239 like the legend of the phoenix, which in early Christian iconography was representative of 745 00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:45.920 the rebirth that is associated with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So 746 00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.079 you know, that, I think is a good example of how so often 747 00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:53.800 the information imparted to the contact teas of the abductees is very deeply personal and 748 00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:58.920 even has spiritual and religious overtones that have direct pertinence to their belief system, 749 00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:04.239 and that is necessarily something that I think should take away from the nature of 750 00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:08.280 the experiences. But I think what it certainly calls us to question is indeed 751 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:15.920 what the nature of the communication is and if there is any need really for 752 00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:22.559 looking at these messages delivered by alleged alien occupants of these UFOs in terms of 753 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:25.119 being some sort of a systematic message that is being delivered to humankind. It 754 00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:29.000 doesn't, like you pointed out already, it doesn't seem to be that that's 755 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:30.880 the case. There is a great variety in terms of the things that are 756 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:37.639 being delivered. I think, you know, yeah, those are some good 757 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:44.519 points. And getting back to your speculation and talking about you know how you 758 00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:49.320 had this speculation that you were talking about, but it's informed speculation. I 759 00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:52.599 don't think it's a bad thing. And kind of to be apologetetic of the 760 00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:58.559 scientists perhaps a bit is that one of the things that you say you're interested 761 00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:01.119 in on your website is I say psychology, and a lot of people get 762 00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:07.159 frustrated when because you're kind of touching on that now people mentioned psychology and that 763 00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:13.519 there could be something going on within the person that is affecting their experience. 764 00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:17.840 Of course, some of the psychologists believe that their experiences are completely internal and 765 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:23.079 there is no external component. I think it's important to look at that aspect. 766 00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:28.159 I do believe there is an external component, but that these things are 767 00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.440 mixing, and people get frustrated with that. I know, like I said, 768 00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:36.960 on your site, you talked about being interested in psychology. Why do 769 00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:42.800 you think the psychology is important when looking into this phenomena. Psychology is important 770 00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:46.840 because if we try and take psychology out of the equation, and philosophy too 771 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:52.239 is in terms of a methodical process of inquiry that we would hope to use 772 00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.679 to understand nature and reality around us. If you take the function of the 773 00:55:55.760 --> 00:56:00.000 human mind out of the equation, what is there? What else is there? 774 00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:02.239 At all? We have to look at things from the psychological perspective, 775 00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:08.960 because everything is inherently based on and in truth, really, it's entirely reliant 776 00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:14.840 on human interpretation of the phenomena being witnessed, and therefore we have to take 777 00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:17.599 into consideration, first of all, the limitations of the human emotions, because, 778 00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:22.000 for instance, often when someone has a UFO encounter, it's a very 779 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:25.639 emotional experience for them. Some people are in awe of what they're seeing. 780 00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:30.679 Some people are utterly terrified. Some people have described, you know, feeling 781 00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:34.519 other emotions, you know, a cosmic sense of love and unity. Some 782 00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:37.480 people have gotten the distinct impression that they were being controlled by something the levolent. 783 00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:40.559 So, you know, when we take into consideration the range of the 784 00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:45.760 emotions and the way that the emotions and people's emotional stability and their own comfort 785 00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:51.960 with a given situation will influence their perception of that circumstance. We have to 786 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:57.159 take into very serious consideration the psychology underlying because this is the best way that 787 00:56:57.199 --> 00:57:00.840 we can. Again, I think that a lot of people are wary of 788 00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:05.639 psychology, and I'll say this first, because you know, although psychology is 789 00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:08.119 a scientific attempt to trying to understand the workings of the mind and human perception, 790 00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:14.239 there are also a lot of you know, very varieties of interpretation within 791 00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:15.920 the you know, subdivisions if you will, within you know, the school 792 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:21.039 of psychology itself. You know, the union perspectives, who archetypes and things 793 00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:22.599 like that are the Freudian concepts that you know, have so much to do 794 00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:25.440 with, you know, sex and the like. So I think that a 795 00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:29.320 lot of people will say that this has been disproven, and this is disproven, 796 00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:31.079 and therefore we can't really rely on a whole lot of the information that 797 00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:37.159 has been brought forth in terms of psychological attempts at understanding humanity and the human 798 00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:42.159 mind. But the truth is is that while the perspectives will vary and they 799 00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:45.559 will be very different from one another and even contradict one another, they may 800 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:51.280 not be entirely incorrect. I think that each perspective from a psychological, scientific, 801 00:57:51.400 --> 00:57:53.519 religious, anything, you know, are going to have a grain of 802 00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:57.280 truth. And we have to take all these things into consideration. So yes, 803 00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:01.000 psychology I think is integral to understand strange phenomenal because it has everything to 804 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:05.239 do with the way the human mind will attempt to reconcile with what it is 805 00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:13.199 experiencing m And you know, I think that's important for us to understand because, 806 00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:16.280 like you mentioned, with some of the inherent problems of psychology, it 807 00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:22.320 is a very new science and we're still trying to figure out a lot behind 808 00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:28.320 that and what motivates us and how we work. I mean, hypnotherapy is 809 00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:32.199 a fairly new thing and how that works. If it works, it certainly 810 00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:37.400 in my experience, does work. But why and how is still being looked 811 00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:43.079 at and can we trust it to you know, be using court for example. 812 00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:49.760 But I think that if we're talking about even if people believe we are 813 00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:53.519 being approached by an advanced civilization, that they would know those things as well. 814 00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:59.000 I mean, think if they're just trying to implant a simple idea of 815 00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:01.480 peace and love and peace, and they send you that message we're all going 816 00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:09.400 to come up with our own elaborate scenario around this message, and that could 817 00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:14.079 be one of the answers why that this information is so different. But of 818 00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:19.239 course this message could be coming to us from some other source than an extraterrestrial 819 00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:23.480 I mean, I agree with you that it's psychology is something that we do 820 00:59:23.559 --> 00:59:28.159 have to look at. And that's one reason I really appreciated John Max's work, 821 00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:34.440 and that sure he believed that perhaps this phenomena was a non physical phenomena, 822 00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:39.719 but the non physical parts are not something to ignore. That's key right 823 00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:44.800 there. That is absolutely key because while there may not be an entirely physical 824 00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:49.119 component to abduction, that does not rule out the potential for there to be 825 00:59:49.159 --> 00:59:53.119 some kind of an intelligent interaction between humankind and another intelligence. I don't think 826 00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:57.639 that that that you know, rules out the possibility at all. And the 827 00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:00.519 very thing is is that you know again when you when you mentioned, for 828 01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:05.039 instance, hypnosis, hypnosis has been shown to have an interesting effect. People 829 01:00:05.079 --> 01:00:07.679 for instance, will say, this can be hypnotized. They can be taken 830 01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:12.760 into what is apparently an altered state of consciousness where they can sometimes recall certain 831 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:17.519 information. But there's a very terrifying susceptibility in the in the mind of the 832 01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:24.480 hypnotized to to you know, suggestion from the namely from the hypnotist. That's 833 01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:28.119 what's been shown so many times in the past. And the thing is that 834 01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:35.079 while hypnotism clearly is a process that that has certain you know, repeatable and 835 01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:40.280 expected by products and effects, it's not something that is fully understood and therefore 836 01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:44.679 it is not something that is by any means reliable either. But if you 837 01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:49.559 look at uphology and specifically abduction research, you know, let's take into consideration, 838 01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:52.159 uh, the the uh, the work of Bud Hopkins, the late 839 01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:57.800 Bud Hopkins, you know, with intruders and his his books about alien abduction 840 01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:01.480 and his sessions with people who he eventually began to hypnotize himself and spent time, 841 01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:08.920 you know, helping recover memories regarding UFOs and alien productions. It certainly 842 01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:12.679 isn't something that we can rule out that this is indeed what was going on, 843 01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:15.440 and that many of these people actually were having remembrances of some sort of 844 01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:19.519 circumstance. It may not have been entirely physical, as mac kind of gravitated 845 01:01:19.519 --> 01:01:22.119 toward. But what's really concerning to me, is that so much of what 846 01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:27.719 we understand as the abduction phenomenon is not only rooted in Hopkins's own research, 847 01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:31.400 but also in the methodology that was used to obtain those results. And if 848 01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:35.639 hypnotism is not something that, like you'd said, Alexandra, it cannot be 849 01:01:35.719 --> 01:01:38.559 used in a court of law because of the unliability factor. Can we really 850 01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:42.960 base our entire knowledge base of a particular phenomenon, whether it the abduction or 851 01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.000 anything else, satanic ritual abuse, you know, super soldier, mind control, 852 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:49.880 all these different things that are supposedly recovered through hypnosis. Can we utilize 853 01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:54.039 hypnosis as a reliable method for justifying this kind of information? I just simply 854 01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:57.719 do not think that that is the case. I don't think that we can. 855 01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:01.480 And though we can't discount the courts of people and their claims and their 856 01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:06.639 perception of strange events, I don't think we can substantiate those claims through the 857 01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:10.239 use of something we don't understand like hypnosis. You know, it's really exciting 858 01:02:10.280 --> 01:02:15.519 to have this conversation, and they have a similar conversation with Nick Redfern last 859 01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:20.280 week, because I think what it does is open up a lot more possibilities 860 01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:22.719 and a lot more research that has to be done in this field. I 861 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:25.239 think a lot of people feel that, you know, this kind of talk 862 01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:29.559 has taken a step back, that you know, we already figured out decades 863 01:02:29.599 --> 01:02:32.719 ago that UFOs are ets and ET's are visiting us, and now we need 864 01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:37.880 the government to admit this because they know that's true too. But I think 865 01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:40.039 you know, what a lot of people are doing, at least of our 866 01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:45.039 generation, is stepping back and taking another look at this and saying, wait 867 01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:47.960 a sec there could be a lot more answers here. And I'm hopeful, 868 01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:52.679 and I want to hear what you think of the possibilities of this even happening. 869 01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:57.000 Are I'm hopeful that there will be a lot more Michiocagoos to come. 870 01:02:57.320 --> 01:03:00.119 And when you get a lot more Michiocucus, and you use him a lot 871 01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:02.840 because you're obviously familiar with his work, and so am I. And he's 872 01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:08.800 a hero because he looks as an open mind. But when you get all 873 01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:14.079 those guys together, I think in the future that and hopefully in the in 874 01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:19.440 the you know, sooner rather than later, we will have scientific inquiry and 875 01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:24.800 perhaps a funded study in this field. And if that happened. I think 876 01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:28.440 these are some of the areas that they're going to need to look into. 877 01:03:28.840 --> 01:03:35.639 Do you think it's possible for that in you know, our environment, that 878 01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:43.480 a scientific organization could take this on, if that's even possible or what are 879 01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:47.679 your thoughts there? It certainly is possible, It certainly certainly is possible. 880 01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:52.519 I'm glad that you asked that question, Alejandro, because that's a very important 881 01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:57.639 subject to address it, and it calls in question also the the history of 882 01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:01.480 upology and you know, official organization's attempts at trying to, you know, 883 01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:08.000 scientifically reconcile with a phenomenon that not only is very difficult to understand, but 884 01:04:08.119 --> 01:04:13.880 is entirely observable, you know, by virtue of the witness, the often 885 01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:19.960 very vivid eyewitness accounts, and these these observations recount objects that are obviously disobeying 886 01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:24.679 our known laws of physics. So when we talk about UFOs and we talk 887 01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:28.440 about the scientific establishment trying to reconcile with that, you look all the way 888 01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:32.880 back to the late nineteen forties when the Air Force began serious investigation with regard 889 01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:36.719 to UFOs. And I'm not talking about Roswell here per se. I'm talking 890 01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:40.719 about, you know, the Air Force, Jay Edward Rupel, of course, 891 01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:45.760 you know whoever saw the beginnings of Project Blue Book and the Air Force's 892 01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:50.280 official inquiry into reports of UFOs. If you read especially the first edition of 893 01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:57.280 the Report on Unidentified Flying Objects that Rupolt wrote, he points out a lot 894 01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:01.119 of schisms within even the Air Force's off let alone various other branches of government. 895 01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:02.880 You know, there were many in the Air Force who were trying to 896 01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:06.800 downplay the idea of UFOs. And then ruperlt here's the guy who was overseeing 897 01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:11.679 Project blue Book, coming forth writing a book about this and pointing out the 898 01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:15.159 way that the idea was, you know, widely downplayed by a number of 899 01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:19.239 you know, we'll say heavy hitters within his own organization and within other areas 900 01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:25.400 of government as well. Blue Book nonetheless was attempting to gather information about UFOs 901 01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:30.159 and look at everything logically and scientifically. But the earliest interpretations of UFOs as 902 01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:35.360 extraterrestrial phenomenon stem from those years, and I would be quick to point out 903 01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:39.280 to people that this, of course, was also a time prior to our 904 01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:42.480 own exploration of space as humans, we hadn't gone to the moon, yet 905 01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:45.840 ourselves, and early in the reports of the Project Blue Book, you see 906 01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:50.800 hents its scientists who are trying to understand how a extraterrestrial intelligence might literally be 907 01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:54.440 able to come to Earth. One of the issues that they were having trouble 908 01:05:54.440 --> 01:06:00.519 with with with understanding was get this, how a technological spacecraft could literally survive 909 01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:04.079 re entry into Earth's atmosphere. And they were talking about this, and some 910 01:06:04.119 --> 01:06:08.840 of the theories that were thrown up about the anomalist green fireballs seeming throughout the 911 01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:13.880 Midwest and the late nineteen forties was that these were actually probes. Get this, 912 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:19.320 extraterrestrial craft might park outside Earth's atmosphere and send probes down, given them 913 01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:24.880 the understanding that these probes first of all, probably would not want to be 914 01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:29.559 something that could be recovered later by Earthlings, And so some scientists rupeled recounts 915 01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:33.239 for US were proposing that maybe they were sending probes down that were intended to 916 01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:36.360 begin to burn up as they entered Earth's atmosphere, that they would gather certain 917 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:45.039 climactic or rather atmospheric and climatic data about Planet Earth as they injured our atmosphere, 918 01:06:45.039 --> 01:06:46.960 then they would burn up eventually in that way, no one would be 919 01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:50.960 able to recover an alien artifact and their presence wouldn't be known. So these 920 01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:54.840 are the kind of theories that were put out. And all this came prior 921 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:57.679 to our own exploration of space, going to the Moon and things like this. 922 01:06:58.199 --> 01:07:00.960 We were trying to deal with hurdles that appeared to be hurdles at the 923 01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:03.440 time. And of course now it's rather commonplace to send a satellite or a 924 01:07:03.480 --> 01:07:08.159 space shuttle into space and then bring it back to Earth through you know, 925 01:07:08.199 --> 01:07:12.159 the atmosphere and the re entry process. So, you know, as our 926 01:07:12.199 --> 01:07:15.880 science has gotten better and better, we can look at the past and the 927 01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:17.400 way that we have you know, studied UFOs and we can see that, 928 01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:20.280 you know, we've we've grown in leaps and bounds, and yet we can 929 01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:25.199 What we seem to fail to do is to notice the preconceptions that stem from 930 01:07:25.239 --> 01:07:29.280 that era. Now I'm not saying again that UFOs are not extraterrestrial, but 931 01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:32.400 I think that a lot of that perspective comes from that early period prior to 932 01:07:32.440 --> 01:07:36.800 our own space exploration, and that we may have influenced ourselves in ways that 933 01:07:36.840 --> 01:07:42.320 we didn't realize by speculating. Now that said, as blue Book went along. 934 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.400 Blue Book was you know, I think that they really had good intentions 935 01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:49.199 For a long time there within the University of Colorado, UFO project came on 936 01:07:49.239 --> 01:07:56.719 board with Edward Condon. Arthur Koestler in his book Janus has a compinium in 937 01:07:56.760 --> 01:08:00.679 the back, or an appendix rather called UFOs Carnival of Absurdity, and he 938 01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:04.639 points out in that brief essay regarding UFOs, and the funny thing about that 939 01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:08.880 is that I picked that book up because I'm a fan of Coastler's writing The 940 01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:11.760 Roots of Coincidence and some of these things that don't have any direct relation to 941 01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:15.119 UFOs. I bought Janis in a used bookstore because I liked The Roots of 942 01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:19.159 Coincidence and his other writing. And he was a Hungarian journalist who primarily had 943 01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:21.920 interest in, you know, science and politics and things like that, but 944 01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:28.000 also wrote every now and then about strange phenomenon in psychology. Lo and behold, 945 01:08:28.079 --> 01:08:30.560 my surprise. You know when I opened this book and in the back 946 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:32.479 there's this appendix that has to do with UFOs, and in that he points 947 01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:38.680 out the way that many who were involved with the Convent Committee were intentionally downplaying 948 01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:43.079 the idea of UFO reports by wording the reports in such a way that didn't 949 01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:47.359 do so overtly, but that they suggested that the mental capacity, or the 950 01:08:47.399 --> 01:08:51.760 perception or the mental state of the witness might be questionable. And then, 951 01:08:51.800 --> 01:08:56.039 of course, when the Convent Committee released their official report, it stated that 952 01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:59.760 although there may be some merit to the idea that there are UFOs, we 953 01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:04.880 don't stand to gain anything from studying them scientifically. What a narrow minded statement, 954 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:08.880 or at least it should be interpreted as that. But for whatever reason 955 01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:12.520 the Condon Committee came to this conclusion, Project Blue Book was shut down, 956 01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:17.000 and forever after, it seems the media has continued to portray UFOs along the 957 01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:21.119 lines of what these two organizations worked so hard apparently to do, and that 958 01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:26.279 was to discredit And I don't think that Project Blue Book and intentionally all along 959 01:09:26.359 --> 01:09:29.800 tide to discredit ufology, but many in the Air Force had during those years, 960 01:09:29.840 --> 01:09:32.439 as evidenced by what Rupold has already said the Conting Committee. You know, 961 01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:35.479 again, you can look at these sorts of documents, and I'd recommend 962 01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:40.159 Arthur Koessler's book Janus to anyone because it's got that appendix in the back. 963 01:09:40.199 --> 01:09:42.159 It will tell you all about that. And there are other researchers you know 964 01:09:42.199 --> 01:09:45.000 all about this too who've talked about it. Robert Hastings has mentioned this kind 965 01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:49.560 of thing too. These organizations, for whatever reason, found it thought it 966 01:09:49.600 --> 01:09:53.479 was a good idea to downplay the idea of UFOs, make it look like 967 01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:58.119 something that was less likely in the public eye. And since the nineteen sixties 968 01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:01.560 the scientific establishment has followed suit continue to pursue it that way. You know 969 01:10:01.720 --> 01:10:06.039 now why that is and how we could stand a gain from dismissing a subject 970 01:10:06.079 --> 01:10:11.239 is beyond me. I don't know how that could be perceived by anyone as 971 01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:16.119 being productive, knowing the rate of expansion of technology that we are seeing before 972 01:10:16.159 --> 01:10:20.600 us today. So could science do something and could science try to understand this 973 01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:25.960 phenomenon? Yes, And this is something that I think was put very best 974 01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:29.560 by a researcher who's not incredibly well known these days. He wrote a book 975 01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:31.439 back in the nineteen nineties called Dark White. His name is Jim Schnabel, 976 01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:35.039 but he still has a blog that he talks about UFOs and abduction on from 977 01:10:35.039 --> 01:10:39.199 time to time, and he mentioned that he thinks the very best thing that 978 01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:44.319 uphologists like myself could do is rather than trying to come to determinations about the 979 01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:47.880 scientific nature of UFOs ourselves, we should try and put information out in such 980 01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:53.359 a way that will make it attractive to the scientific establishment again, so that 981 01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:57.399 they will take the subject seriously as it was once taken seriously, you know, 982 01:10:57.439 --> 01:10:59.560 in the Golden years, so to speak, and so that people will 983 01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:04.439 come back to a meaningful attempt at trying to understand the phenomenon. And once 984 01:11:04.439 --> 01:11:09.640 we do that, I have no question as to whether or not science can 985 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:13.119 apply logic that will help us learn about the phenomenon. We just have to 986 01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:16.760 get them to take seriously the very idea like we once did. Yeah, 987 01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:21.800 it's great that you bring that up, because I agree just so wholeheartedly with 988 01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:30.560 all of that that that I like you bringing up the Golden years too, 989 01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:34.239 because I always refer to that and don't want people to forget these early days 990 01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:39.359 and Rupelt's book, especially that you mentioned, which you can go download for 991 01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:43.520 free everybody. And this is a first early report on blue book. And 992 01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:49.359 you see this evolution of these people taking this phenomena very seriously. Many in 993 01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:57.279 the Air Force and scientific community very quickly jumping to the extraterrestrial answer or that 994 01:11:57.439 --> 01:12:00.560 theory and going that way, which is an interesting insight. But then you 995 01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:05.960 also see this kind of morphing where all of a sudden the Air Force felt 996 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:10.279 embarrassed by the whole thing and tried to push it away, and you see 997 01:12:10.520 --> 01:12:13.880 Rupeelt even kind of doing the same thing. And then you have, like 998 01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:16.640 you said, the Condon Report happening. And I think we've kind of been 999 01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:19.960 in this dark age, is at least when it comes to the mainstream science, 1000 01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:25.560 where they felt, you know, that they can't touch this subject because 1001 01:12:25.600 --> 01:12:30.319 in the loose credibility, and that's what I hope that we come to the 1002 01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:35.680 end of that cycle and finally that gets played out to where people can see 1003 01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:41.159 there is a lot of credible information and to be able to move forward, 1004 01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:45.159 like you said, like we used to do, because back then there were 1005 01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:50.439 a lot of scientists taking this very seriously and this is all documented by Rupelt 1006 01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:55.479 and others back then, and then it all disappeared, Oh absolutely. And 1007 01:12:55.600 --> 01:12:59.399 Rupert was the very one who said at the conclusion of that first edition of 1008 01:12:59.439 --> 01:13:02.680 the report unidentified flying objects. I mean that was a term he coined, 1009 01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:06.800 by the way, but said at the end of that first edition that you 1010 01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:12.359 know, within the next few decades, he was certain that the advancements in 1011 01:13:12.439 --> 01:13:16.680 technology would bring the the apparent mystery of UFOs much closer to earth, and 1012 01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:19.800 he said, we'll solve the mystery within the next few decades. I'm certain 1013 01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:24.399 right, and I think that he would have been right had it only not 1014 01:13:24.520 --> 01:13:28.960 been for the fact that the very organizations that he'd been associated with and those 1015 01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:31.640 to come later would succumb to what I think and see. I think a 1016 01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:34.199 lot of people tend to look at this in terms of whether there's a government 1017 01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:38.640 conspiracy to hide this information. Now that very well may be the case. 1018 01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:43.239 We know that government organizations have certainly, you know, had an interest in 1019 01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:46.720 this and have undergone an inquiry into trying to solve these mysteries and investigate these 1020 01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:50.479 reports themselves. I'll also point out that a lot of these government files are 1021 01:13:50.479 --> 01:13:55.479 eventually released, some of them by Freedom of Information Act, some of them 1022 01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:59.560 you know, without the with without the need for you know, civilians, 1023 01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:01.319 you know, demanding to information. A lot of government UFO files have been 1024 01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:05.279 released very you know, willingly and you know, posted at these various websites. 1025 01:14:05.279 --> 01:14:09.600 You know, these organizations as I've mentioned earlier. So the thing is 1026 01:14:09.600 --> 01:14:13.640 is that I think we would have probably come to a better understanding of UFOs 1027 01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:15.960 had it not been for the fact that some of these organizations that followed Rupled, 1028 01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:19.920 you know, would succumb to this idea that if we cannot prove it 1029 01:14:19.960 --> 01:14:23.439 and understand it, we have to dismiss it. You know, it's kind 1030 01:14:23.439 --> 01:14:26.800 of like a like like a game of superiority. You know, we can't 1031 01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:30.039 be bested by something, and when science doesn't explain it, and our rather 1032 01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:38.279 when our science okays as previously or as presently understood and accepted, if if 1033 01:14:38.319 --> 01:14:42.720 our version of science right now can't explain this, then we cannot accept it. 1034 01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:46.079 We have to literally place it outside of what we agree on as calling 1035 01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:49.960 reality. And that seems to be what happened. That seems to be exactly 1036 01:14:49.960 --> 01:14:55.359 what the circumstance has been in that UFOs for most people are maybe a subject 1037 01:14:55.399 --> 01:14:58.640 of passing interest. But if you start having a serious conversation like we're having 1038 01:14:58.680 --> 01:15:01.079 right now, you know, the average bear will tend to kind of laugh 1039 01:15:01.119 --> 01:15:05.279 and shrug it off because they just can't take this as something that is truly 1040 01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:10.159 an absolute, real, everyday part of our reality, you know. And 1041 01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:13.000 and what many people say is it's going to take them landing on the White 1042 01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:15.479 House front lawn, you know, before it will be. But I don't 1043 01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:17.159 know that that's ever going to happen either, you know, I just don't. 1044 01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:23.640 Right we certainly you know, haven't seen that. But what we can 1045 01:15:23.800 --> 01:15:29.039 do, hopefully is get it taken seriously to the point where conventional science does 1046 01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:31.439 look into it, because I think, you know, unfortunately the people out 1047 01:15:31.479 --> 01:15:38.119 in the public, we don't have the resources to truly look into this matter 1048 01:15:38.680 --> 01:15:42.279 as much as it needs to be looked into. And that's what's more important. 1049 01:15:43.119 --> 01:15:46.880 More important than the President coming out I think and saying you know, 1050 01:15:47.039 --> 01:15:51.920 UFOs are here, aliens are here. More important is an organization put together 1051 01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:57.039 to do some research to figure out what's going on here. Even if they 1052 01:15:58.439 --> 01:16:01.359 have to start to look at some of the secret documents are try to pry 1053 01:16:01.479 --> 01:16:08.479 open, there's still enough information for the public that something can start to be 1054 01:16:08.560 --> 01:16:12.479 looked at. There's a group in France you know, that has done that, 1055 01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:15.000 and they're part of their official Space Agency, and they keep coming to 1056 01:16:15.079 --> 01:16:19.880 the conclusion that it's a real phenomenon and it could be extraterrestural nature. They're 1057 01:16:19.960 --> 01:16:24.199 very scientific about it, so they don't say it definitely is, but it 1058 01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:30.600 could be if we had that here. I just think personally, and you 1059 01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:33.039 know, I'd like to hear why you think the study of this build is 1060 01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:38.960 so important but one to gain technology and a better understanding of physics, but 1061 01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:43.640 also I think it opens up It makes the world, i think, a 1062 01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:49.520 bigger and more wondrous place to know that there are all of these things out 1063 01:16:49.560 --> 01:16:55.079 there, magical if you will, that exists in this world, that it's 1064 01:16:55.199 --> 01:17:01.039 not so mundane and humdrum, and we're not trapped in this everyday kind of 1065 01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:06.880 repetitiveness and just what's on television, that there's a whole world out there to 1066 01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:15.600 explore, a never ending mysteries for us to hopefully discover one day. Absolutely, 1067 01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:17.520 I think that that is the case, and that you know, one 1068 01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:21.640 day, one day, whether by our own design or you know, whether 1069 01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:25.640 it be you know, forced upon us, we will come to those kind 1070 01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:30.479 of conclusions, those kind of realizations, I'll say, because it's going to 1071 01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:31.640 be right in our face at some point. I think that the reason for 1072 01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:38.039 that is because you know, in terms of especially if UFOs it is and 1073 01:17:38.079 --> 01:17:42.159 you know this is brought to the table ad nauseum. But uh, the 1074 01:17:42.399 --> 01:17:45.079 the idea of Clark's law that any you know, Arthur C. Clark's third 1075 01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:51.560 law, specifically that states that any sufficiently advanced technology perceived by lesser advanced technology 1076 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:56.000 will perceive it as magic. The truth is is that if we as advanced 1077 01:17:56.000 --> 01:17:59.520 and technologically you know, savvy as we are right now, or perceive ourselves 1078 01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:02.600 as being as you know, when we perceive something that is so much more 1079 01:18:02.720 --> 01:18:08.520 advanced than us, it is difficult for us to reconcile with and even incorporate 1080 01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:12.119 that again as I'd set into our very reality. So I think that in 1081 01:18:12.159 --> 01:18:16.800 the future, as we become more technologically advanced, it's going to become less 1082 01:18:16.840 --> 01:18:21.560 and less easy for us to escape the reality, the fundamental reality that constitutes 1083 01:18:21.640 --> 01:18:25.840 UFOs and a variety of other different kind of strange phenomenon. And to take 1084 01:18:25.920 --> 01:18:30.000 one more thing into consideration too, you know whether or not you you know, 1085 01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:34.359 support the absolute literal truth of what Whitley Strieber wrote in the book Communion. 1086 01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:40.840 He makes some very philosophical, you know, some very very brilliant philosophical 1087 01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:45.239 statements in that book, and one was that you know, after his interaction 1088 01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:47.800 with what he perceived as being you know, these beings. I don't think 1089 01:18:47.840 --> 01:18:50.560 he ever called them extraterrestrial, but he referred to them as you know, 1090 01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:56.079 non human beings. He had wondered if indeed that these things, though more 1091 01:18:56.119 --> 01:19:00.600 advanced than us, were terrified of humans because of our peers, our ability 1092 01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:04.560 to advance our own technology and perhaps at a rate that was catching up to 1093 01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:10.640 their own maybe our own you know, accumulation of technological advancement was was you 1094 01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:14.720 know, expanding at such a rate you know, greater than cumulative or rather 1095 01:19:14.760 --> 01:19:18.800 greater than exponential, and that they were afraid of humans for the very reason 1096 01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:20.960 that we might catch up to them. And if I don't know that that's 1097 01:19:21.039 --> 01:19:25.680 indeed the case, This was some of Streever's own speculation. But if we 1098 01:19:25.760 --> 01:19:28.960 go along, you know, following that argument, indeed, you know, 1099 01:19:29.000 --> 01:19:32.039 in the next twenty to thirty years, with the rate of growth of technology, 1100 01:19:32.199 --> 01:19:35.600 you know, something that there's a lot of empirical data to back this 1101 01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:40.479 up. I mean, whether or not you support you know, literal interpretations 1102 01:19:40.479 --> 01:19:44.640 of what they call a technological singularity to occur in the next you know, 1103 01:19:44.680 --> 01:19:47.399 half a century sometime. You know, books like Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity is 1104 01:19:47.399 --> 01:19:51.199 Near It very least, will provide a lot of empirical data that supports the 1105 01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:56.359 notion that you know, technology is trending not toward you know, cumulative growth, 1106 01:19:56.439 --> 01:20:00.119 you know, on an exponential scale, but truly it greater an exponential 1107 01:20:00.239 --> 01:20:03.680 growth. And therefore it's going to be a situation, I think very soon 1108 01:20:03.680 --> 01:20:08.840 that our technology is going to bring us face to face literally with a variety 1109 01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:12.960 of different strange phenomenon and then we will be forced to reconsider you know, 1110 01:20:13.039 --> 01:20:15.159 our place and their place as well in what we call reality, because it 1111 01:20:15.159 --> 01:20:18.960 won't be something we can ignore any longer. At that point. That's pretty 1112 01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:25.119 damn exciting. Yeah, I think so. I agree. No, it's 1113 01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:29.319 great. I agree with you regardless of with Strieb whether you believe a story 1114 01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:31.840 or not. He's got an excellent mind. And you know, I was 1115 01:20:31.880 --> 01:20:36.840 going to bring up earlier kind of what Einstein had talked about, being talking 1116 01:20:36.880 --> 01:20:44.600 about imaginative speculation and how important that is to science, and science without imagination 1117 01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:47.640 is going to get nowhere because you can't. You have to have the imagination 1118 01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:53.039 to come up with a hypothesis. In the first place to go down the 1119 01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:58.640 route. And that's what's I think great about a lot of what you're talking 1120 01:20:58.640 --> 01:21:05.319 about here. Imagine if that speculation about some of the very many other possibilities 1121 01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:12.920 we could be dealing with here. Absolutely, So I do want to ask, 1122 01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:15.920 now that we're kind of getting to the end, what got you into 1123 01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:18.359 all of this? What got me into all this? You know, the 1124 01:21:18.560 --> 01:21:24.239 long story short, I was probably you know, kindergartener, first grade, 1125 01:21:24.319 --> 01:21:29.119 and my parents were always, you know, kind of interested in this sort 1126 01:21:29.119 --> 01:21:30.079 of thing. I think my mom, you know, was more interested in 1127 01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:34.159 you know, folk tales and you know, stories of ghosts and hauntings in 1128 01:21:34.159 --> 01:21:36.680 the life. Whereas my father, of course, you know, he speaks 1129 01:21:36.720 --> 01:21:40.520 many languages, and he you know, majored in classics when he went to 1130 01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:43.399 college, and so he studied Latin, Greek and Hebrew and things like that, 1131 01:21:43.479 --> 01:21:47.479 and therefore takes a much more historical and cultural interest, you know, 1132 01:21:47.560 --> 01:21:51.439 or that kind of perspective in terms of his interest in strange phenomenon. I 1133 01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:55.199 don't think for either of them that it was like a lifelong passion and something 1134 01:21:55.199 --> 01:21:58.640 that they wanted to pursue like it has become for me. But they nonetheless 1135 01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:01.600 introduced me to those ideas of very early age. You know, I kept 1136 01:22:01.640 --> 01:22:04.079 asking, you know, I was like a little bulldog, you know, 1137 01:22:04.319 --> 01:22:08.640 you know, biting at the ankles and everything, just wanting to know more 1138 01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:12.119 about this. And so I think my father finally came to the conclusion that 1139 01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:14.359 it would be a good idea to its, you know, to expose me 1140 01:22:14.399 --> 01:22:18.560 to some books about this. One of them was Ray Fowler's UFOs Interplanetary Visitors, 1141 01:22:19.840 --> 01:22:25.479 Ivan Sanderson's book Abominable Snowman Legend Come to Life, and a few others 1142 01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:28.119 were among the books that I was first. And these were pretty I mean, 1143 01:22:28.119 --> 01:22:30.960 these were thick, you know, mass market paperback, you know, 1144 01:22:30.119 --> 01:22:32.920 I mean adult reading books, and I at first, you know, probably 1145 01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:35.600 couldn't do much more than look at the pictures and have them be read to 1146 01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:39.760 me. But by the time I was in second or third grade, you 1147 01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:43.199 know, and this is where I got interesting. My interest in this phenomenon 1148 01:22:43.359 --> 01:22:46.439 literally, I think, you know, helped me grow and progress, you 1149 01:22:46.439 --> 01:22:50.520 know, as a student in elementary school. At very least my teachers were 1150 01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:53.239 like, you know, some of them loved it because they were like, 1151 01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:56.159 you know, he is reading right now, he's in second grade and he's 1152 01:22:56.199 --> 01:22:59.119 reading in a fifth grade or sixth grade level. And some of the teachers 1153 01:22:59.119 --> 01:23:00.800 when I got to third grade, specifically, one of my teachers really didn't 1154 01:23:00.840 --> 01:23:02.880 like it because she said, although he might be reading, you know, 1155 01:23:03.720 --> 01:23:08.039 so much better than the other students in the class right now, and he 1156 01:23:08.680 --> 01:23:11.680 and this kind of spread too. I generally tended to be a lot better 1157 01:23:11.720 --> 01:23:14.319 with everything, except for you know, math, that didn't come until much 1158 01:23:14.399 --> 01:23:17.640 later. But you know, my third grade teacher literally had a parent teacher 1159 01:23:17.680 --> 01:23:20.840 conference, I think, and pointed out to my mom and dad her concern 1160 01:23:20.880 --> 01:23:26.119 about my interest in the subject of UFOs, and they put studies like that 1161 01:23:26.199 --> 01:23:28.439 and everything, and my mom and dad kind of looked at her blankly and 1162 01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:30.680 said, well, he's reading, isn't he. You know, so they 1163 01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:33.239 they went to that for me. And you know, I just always was 1164 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:36.319 interested in it from a young age. But about the time I turned about 1165 01:23:36.359 --> 01:23:41.119 twenty one, I started getting serious about things in terms of, you know, 1166 01:23:41.119 --> 01:23:44.079 I wanted to be a writer. And you know, at first, 1167 01:23:44.119 --> 01:23:47.239 I a lot of writers who I've spoken to have read this particularly pivotal work 1168 01:23:47.279 --> 01:23:50.800 at Stephen King's book on writing. When I was in college, my very 1169 01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:55.720 first semester, I found that book in the basement of the library, and 1170 01:23:55.760 --> 01:23:58.159 I would never check it out. I would always just go and sit in 1171 01:23:58.159 --> 01:24:00.479 the basement of the library every day in between class as is, when I 1172 01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:02.600 didn't have other work I was doing. Anytime I had downtime, I would 1173 01:24:02.600 --> 01:24:06.760 just read from that book. And I literally read the entire book there in 1174 01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:10.479 the library from day to day without ever checking it out. It was like 1175 01:24:10.600 --> 01:24:13.520 that was the place that was supposed to be read in the presence of all 1176 01:24:13.520 --> 01:24:16.680 this knowledge on all these you know, shelves and all these books and manuscripts 1177 01:24:16.680 --> 01:24:20.399 and documents and things like that. And when I picked that book up and 1178 01:24:20.399 --> 01:24:23.840 I finished it and everything, I thought, well, you know, now 1179 01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:26.199 it's it's setting stone. I'm going to write, you know, thrillers and 1180 01:24:26.760 --> 01:24:29.520 fiction and things like that. And boy, let me tell you, I 1181 01:24:29.560 --> 01:24:31.199 tried, but I could never get the hang of it. I'm not you 1182 01:24:31.239 --> 01:24:34.000 know, maybe one day it'll it'll coalesce and come together. But I was 1183 01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:39.520 never the fiction writer I had hoped to be. But I subsequently began to 1184 01:24:39.520 --> 01:24:43.479 work with Joshua P. Warren and his Lemur research team a bit, and 1185 01:24:43.640 --> 01:24:46.960 I started helping out with some conferences he did here in western North Carolina, 1186 01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:49.920 and I had a lot of ideas and through some of those conferences, I 1187 01:24:49.960 --> 01:24:54.720 met people like Lauren Coleman, Phillis Galdy of Fate magazine and a few others, 1188 01:24:54.760 --> 01:24:59.000 and I shortly after that began to submit articles to Fate and other magazines 1189 01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:01.319 and that's where things come took off from there, and then I guess it 1190 01:25:01.359 --> 01:25:03.960 was three or four years ago I started the website, the Grailian Report, 1191 01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:06.920 and that's kind of been the the crux of my interest for the last several 1192 01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:12.000 years. And still writing literally every single day about this, you know, 1193 01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:14.920 and it's very much become something that I think, will you know whether or 1194 01:25:14.960 --> 01:25:16.279 not I want it to be now it's going to be a lifelong passion. 1195 01:25:17.600 --> 01:25:20.880 Well, you've definitely got an act for writing titles, because you have written 1196 01:25:20.880 --> 01:25:26.279 a book and it has a very compelling title, Magic, Mysticism and the 1197 01:25:26.359 --> 01:25:30.560 Molecule, The Search for Sentient Intelligence from Other Worlds. Tell us a little 1198 01:25:30.560 --> 01:25:33.960 bit in a nutshell, if you can. That's always difficult for an usher 1199 01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:39.520 About the book, Well, the book deals with altered states of consciousness and 1200 01:25:39.560 --> 01:25:45.239 people's attempts at contacting what appeared to be sent intelligences through various mediums you know, 1201 01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:47.960 throughout the centuries. And it's broken into three you know sections, as 1202 01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:51.359 the title indicates, you know, the history of magical practices, the use 1203 01:25:51.399 --> 01:25:56.720 of mystical processes and things like that, and then of course psychedelic and entthhogenic 1204 01:25:56.800 --> 01:26:00.000 molecules to achieve those kinds of things. So yeah, in a nutshell, 1205 01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:04.479 all through states of consciousness and attempts at contacting non human intelligence. Mm hm. 1206 01:26:05.399 --> 01:26:10.720 So kind of some of the ideas like it inspired I guess by maybe 1207 01:26:10.760 --> 01:26:15.199 people like Graham Hancock who talk a lot about that sort of thing. Yeah, 1208 01:26:15.279 --> 01:26:18.439 you know, Daniel Pinchback, Graham Handcock, Terrence McKenna. A lot 1209 01:26:18.439 --> 01:26:23.680 of those folks are very uh, you know, influential, especially in terms 1210 01:26:23.680 --> 01:26:27.840 of the entheogenic approach to that. You know, people who read the Magical 1211 01:26:27.920 --> 01:26:30.640 and the and the mystical portions of the book will notice that I probably referenced 1212 01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:34.920 John Keel and people like that, you know, more so than the popular 1213 01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:38.520 you know, authors in the psychoonaut fields and things like that. And it's 1214 01:26:38.560 --> 01:26:43.680 strange a subject for me, especially because when I became compelled to write that 1215 01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:46.039 book and of course I was not then into today, I'm still not a 1216 01:26:46.119 --> 01:26:50.560 user of psychedelic substances myself, you know. As a journalistic approach to this, 1217 01:26:50.680 --> 01:26:54.880 you know, I wasn't someone who was wanting to write about personal experiences, 1218 01:26:54.920 --> 01:26:57.560 and many people told me that that's what I needed to do. But 1219 01:26:57.640 --> 01:27:00.319 I thought, in order to maintain journalistic integrity, could write about the subject, 1220 01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:03.600 not become the subject, you know, And so that's that's what I 1221 01:27:03.640 --> 01:27:06.439 did. And there are a number of book projects right now underway. I've 1222 01:27:06.479 --> 01:27:10.920 got a lot of things I'm working with. One in particular that my publisher 1223 01:27:10.920 --> 01:27:14.079 and I've been going back and forth. There's been a complete proposal. It 1224 01:27:14.119 --> 01:27:18.039 does have to do with UFOs, and we're now beyond the first stages of 1225 01:27:18.039 --> 01:27:21.000 the of the proposal and we're kind of reworking the idea right now. So 1226 01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:26.279 hopefully sometime in twenty twelve, I'll have more information about that for folks as 1227 01:27:26.319 --> 01:27:30.640 well. Okay, sounds exciting, and so where people can go just so 1228 01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:33.359 they know Gray Alien Report. Just in case you're not sure how to spell 1229 01:27:33.399 --> 01:27:36.520 that, and I know how you may be struggling with that, It is 1230 01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:44.920 g R A l i E N Report. So GR alienreport dot com and 1231 01:27:44.960 --> 01:27:47.640 that's where you can read your writing, get information about your book and some 1232 01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:51.279 other things. That's it, absolutely and thank you so much, Alejandro. 1233 01:27:51.319 --> 01:27:56.079 It's been a fantastic time talking with you. Any opportunity to have good, 1234 01:27:56.279 --> 01:28:00.159 insightful conversation with folks like yourself, it's my pleasure. Well great, because 1235 01:28:00.199 --> 01:28:04.319 you know, I had a lot of fun talking to you. I love 1236 01:28:04.439 --> 01:28:09.840 the perspective and it always gets me excited to hear someone else in this field, 1237 01:28:10.439 --> 01:28:15.279 some other people that have new and different ideas on how to approach things. 1238 01:28:15.319 --> 01:28:16.840 And I think this is going to be important in the future because I 1239 01:28:16.840 --> 01:28:21.199 think there is a future beyond you know, the typical upology that we've seen 1240 01:28:21.239 --> 01:28:26.319 in the past, and I'm excited about that. So it's great to talk 1241 01:28:26.359 --> 01:28:29.560 to you, and I'll definitely be calling on you again anytime, my friend, 1242 01:28:29.600 --> 01:28:35.239 anytime. Oh right, it was great to hear from Micah. What 1243 01:28:35.359 --> 01:28:39.920 a cool dude, huh, he's really neat. So I had a lot 1244 01:28:39.960 --> 01:28:44.279 of fun talking to him, and I look forward to speaking and working with 1245 01:28:44.359 --> 01:28:48.159 him very much in the future. So what a few great interviews we had 1246 01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:53.239 Micah. Before that, we had Nick Redburn and then we had Betty Okerell 1247 01:28:53.439 --> 01:28:56.600 before that. All authors, and guess what, we're going to keep it 1248 01:28:56.680 --> 01:29:00.920 up next week. We're going to have another author and this is Mac Maloney 1249 01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:04.039 and he just wrote a new book called UFOs in Wartime, a brand new 1250 01:29:04.039 --> 01:29:08.640 book. You can find that on Amazon. UFOs and Wartime. So Mac 1251 01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:12.920 Maloney next week, UFOs and Wartime. I gotta say it three times to 1252 01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:18.039 make sure you get it. Don't forget to visit Openminds dot tv and ufodailynews 1253 01:29:18.079 --> 01:29:23.880 dot com for the latest in UFO news. Thank you all so much for 1254 01:29:24.079 --> 01:30:14.000 listening, and we'll talk to you next week. People. Adios.