1
00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:06,559
You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio
Network, the best in paranormal talk radio

2
00:00:06,759 --> 00:00:13,519
in the UK and around the world. Paranormal Dimensions is fortunately on Mondays on

3
00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:18,160
the Paranormal UK Radio Network. What's
the idea of the life being out?

4
00:00:18,320 --> 00:01:11,879
You were moving a d sorry to
pick a fine time for it. Hello,

5
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:17,239
this is Malcolm Robinson and you're listening
to the Paranormal UK Radio Network,

6
00:01:17,719 --> 00:01:32,680
the UK's biggest paranormal network and this
is Paranormal Dimensions with David Jones. All

7
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,719
rights any Welcome to the show.
Hello, welcome, I'm great to speak

8
00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,480
on your show. Well, it's
been three years since we spoke before on

9
00:01:40,519 --> 00:01:45,560
the show, but unbelievably you will
find that extraordinary, really unbelievably. Yeah,

10
00:01:45,879 --> 00:01:48,480
years ago, it was just just
as the world was going crazy.

11
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,760
If you're a number, it was
in Marche he was twenty twenty when we

12
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,959
were all going ever, it was
going crazy. But of course recently I

13
00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,640
met I was lucky that to meet
you in London February, which was great.

14
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:07,920
You gave a fantastic presentation which blew
me away. Um. Obviously you've

15
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,800
had some a couple of new books
out, at least a one new book

16
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,240
out since we spoke before, and
I think you'll look if I'm looking incorrect,

17
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:20,240
you're cheating the Ferryman as your latest. Is that correct? Yeah,

18
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,520
And I have to say it's a
fantastic book. I'm still reading it.

19
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:29,400
I must say, Um, you
seem to be going down the line the

20
00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:34,319
lines there of a holographic universe very
much so. It's it's something I've been

21
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,360
doing now for the last ten years
probably, and in fact I'm doing a

22
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:44,599
big presentation on the concept in California
in two weeks time. Yeah. Actually

23
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,520
gets that. It's quite an exciting
I believe you were going to go before

24
00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:53,039
before, before the COVID thing.
What happened was I was supposed to do

25
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:58,560
its summer of twenty twenty, then
COVID hit so we couldn't do it.

26
00:02:58,599 --> 00:03:05,639
Then then we did an online conference
in twenty twenty one, and then twenty

27
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,599
twenty three they've decided they will go
ahead and try again. And it's it's

28
00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:13,960
going to be good. I'm going
to have platform with Graham Hancock is going

29
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,919
to be choing one of the panels
I'm going to be on together with an

30
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:22,240
associate of Mind, doctor Andrew Gallimore. Who's want the world's leading authorities on

31
00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:28,479
neurology and eurochemistry, and very much
My position I'm taking at the moment is

32
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:35,639
quite precisely that the universe is holographic
in nature, and that if you jump

33
00:03:35,719 --> 00:03:42,960
to that conclusion you can explain a
considerable amount of the things we perceive in

34
00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:46,680
general terms. And again being me, I don't just make the statements I

35
00:03:46,719 --> 00:03:50,080
do the science you do. I
don't think it's profoundly important that the science

36
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,599
it's presented in the best way possible
for people to appreciate where you're coming from

37
00:03:54,599 --> 00:03:57,919
with your arguments, you know,
to just turn around and say, oh,

38
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,680
it's the holographic universe means nothing to
anybody. But if you start to

39
00:04:00,719 --> 00:04:03,840
explain, indeed, it's a very
difficult concept to get your head around.

40
00:04:04,039 --> 00:04:08,000
I had troubled with it. I
mean I'm still having trouble with it,

41
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,080
to be honest, you know,
so if if I'm really honest, But

42
00:04:11,159 --> 00:04:14,159
I am beginning to understand it a
little bit now, because I think the

43
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:19,759
first book on that was Michael Michael
Talbot's boot credible book, and it was

44
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:25,319
Tolbert that really brought to the general
public's attention the work of two people,

45
00:04:25,439 --> 00:04:32,360
Carl pribram Um and David Bone,
and Ribram and Bone were both working on

46
00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:39,879
similar concepts that everything effectively is digital, and Pribram was working that the brain

47
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:45,680
worked on digital processes, and Bone
was working on the universe worked on digital

48
00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:50,879
processes. And they were introduced by
Karl Pribram's son, and they both realized

49
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,680
that they were both coming from totally
different directions and making the same conclusions.

50
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,920
So if you look at the work
of those two guys, it effectively means

51
00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:03,120
that a a hologram is processing a
hologram, makes it even curiouser and stranger.

52
00:05:04,199 --> 00:05:08,800
But for me, I've taken it
a good deal further than that,

53
00:05:09,519 --> 00:05:14,879
in that I'm now citing the work
of people like Stephen Hawking, and Hawking's

54
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,759
last paper on black holes was quite
fascinating. I couldn't understand any I tried

55
00:05:20,759 --> 00:05:25,680
to reach Stephen Hawking's book and I
could not. I've got to honestly say

56
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,720
I could not understand it at all. I think it was way you weigh

57
00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:31,959
over more, hid. I think
the problem is in many ways, it's

58
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:42,560
the concepts are so difficult to grasp. Your brain just cannot follow the logic

59
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:48,720
of it pured and simply because it's
it's it's archly mathematical and without an appreciation

60
00:05:48,759 --> 00:05:51,319
of the maths. And I put
my hand on my heart. I've tried

61
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,720
to understand the maths, and I've
actually got a course on quantum mechanics.

62
00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:00,759
In terms of the calculations, I
gave up in the end and I thought,

63
00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:04,000
no, I just need to have
to understand the principles. I have

64
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,279
a vague idea of how the mouth's
works, but not to the extent that

65
00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:14,000
a quantum physicist would. So the
issue really is is what is the true

66
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,399
nature of black holes? And the
biggest issue they have And Hawking's major argument

67
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:26,759
or issue was that if you take
if you were standing on the edge of

68
00:06:26,759 --> 00:06:30,519
a black hole and you threw in
your mobile phone into the black hole,

69
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,439
your phone will disappear, it will
go, it will disappear. But the

70
00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:42,680
problem is that actually contravenes. I
think it's the second law of thermodynamics,

71
00:06:42,759 --> 00:06:47,279
because it means that in an enclosed
system, which the universe is, data

72
00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:50,720
and information can't be lost. Energy
cannot be lost, it can only be

73
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:57,040
transferred into another form of energy.
And Hawking argued, and many of his

74
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,480
associates have argued that everything that it
falls into a black hole, it's information

75
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:09,360
is literally recorded on the edge of
the black hole. So all the information

76
00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:13,319
that's in the mobile phone effectively is
smeared out over the edge of the black

77
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,720
hole, and that goes for everything
it takes in. Now, if this

78
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:24,360
is then the case, it means
that physical objects can be described using holographic

79
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:30,399
and mathematical principles. So if everything
in its basis is digital and everything is

80
00:07:30,439 --> 00:07:35,639
mathematical, it means that what we
perceive to be a three dimensional reality is

81
00:07:35,639 --> 00:07:42,680
in fact a two dimensional hologram.
Now again I've no idea how they did

82
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,240
this calculation, and every time I
do an interview, I mean to go

83
00:07:45,319 --> 00:07:49,279
away and really look into it in
greater detail. But I have read and

84
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,399
this is in an academic book,
so it's not in a new edge books,

85
00:07:53,399 --> 00:07:57,560
in an academic book. But what
they did a calculation, and they

86
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:05,720
decided how many bits of information would
be needed to describe the universe. Okay,

87
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,879
And of course a bit of data
is just something that's on and off.

88
00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:13,959
Binary code is just on and off
switch. And then what they did

89
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,519
was they did a calculation of and
again it's going to be interesting to try

90
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,639
and grasp this. The universe has
been expanding for what thirteen point seven billion

91
00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:24,839
years from the point of the Big
Bank, so effectively, we are existing

92
00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:28,160
on the inside like a huge inside
of a huge balloon that's expanding outwards.

93
00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:33,600
So if you understand that concept,
then imagine you're looking at the inside of

94
00:08:33,639 --> 00:08:39,000
the balloon. Now, what they
said was the smallest possible area that can

95
00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:43,960
be known to science is something called
the plant square, and it's the plank

96
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,240
length times fall. It's like little
square, and the plank length is is

97
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,519
literally the tiniest bit of space you
can have. Nothing can be smaller than

98
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:56,000
that. And they said, imagine
that the inside of this balloon is checkerboarded

99
00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:03,639
with long squares. And then they
said, imagine that each plank square contains

100
00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:09,120
and can hold one bit of information. It's exactly the same figure. The

101
00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:16,919
amount of information needed to describe the
universe is exactly the same as the number

102
00:09:16,919 --> 00:09:20,480
of plant squares on the perimeter of
the universe. And they argue that this

103
00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:26,879
is too much of a coincidence.
So then people like Craig Hogan at the

104
00:09:26,879 --> 00:09:33,200
Perimeter Institute in Canada started looking into
this and they started looking for the pixelation

105
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,720
of space. They're actually looking for
the pixelation of this reality. Now this

106
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:48,120
is then extraordinarily interesting because, according
to Karl Pribram, the brain works in

107
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,080
holographic principles. Now, what is
intriguing, what is really interesting about a

108
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,320
hologram is that if you take a
holographic image like a painting, but it's

109
00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,399
a hologram. If you had a
painting are on glass and you smashed it,

110
00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:05,799
each bit of the image would be
a part of the full issue,

111
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,919
like a jigsaw puzzle, so you
put the bits together. That doesn't happen

112
00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:15,519
with a hologram. In a hologram, every little bit of the hologram contains

113
00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:20,200
all the information of the picture.
So in a holographic image, every little

114
00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:24,960
part of that image contains the whole. So suddenly you have this really weird

115
00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:33,720
recursive universe whereby everything contains everything else. There is no outside because everything is

116
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:41,600
contained within the hologram. The question
is what is generating the hologram? How

117
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,120
is the hologram being generated? And
there is an argument to say, and

118
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,879
there's a lot of work being done
on this. At the moment, they

119
00:10:46,919 --> 00:10:50,879
think it's to do with something called
zero point energy, which is the energy

120
00:10:50,919 --> 00:10:54,480
within the quantum vacuum space, and
they think that this generates the energy and

121
00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:00,639
the information needed to generate the hologram. Now, I find this very intriguing

122
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,440
because suddenly it means that what we
think is out there isn't what we think

123
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,480
it is. We think there's three
dimensional space out there. We think that

124
00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:13,240
you know that there are colors out
there. We think there are distances,

125
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,080
distances and everything else, and you
look into the distance. But that's not

126
00:11:18,159 --> 00:11:24,279
how it works. It's far more
interesting than that. It seems that space

127
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:30,960
itself is intriguing. You know when
people never think about this before, when

128
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,279
they think about the term space,
they never think what they mean by the

129
00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:39,720
word space. It literally means that
empty space. And as Earnest Mark,

130
00:11:39,879 --> 00:11:46,840
the German physicist, once argued,
imagine that the whole universe is just two

131
00:11:46,919 --> 00:11:54,519
planets surrounded by space. What happens
to the space if one planet disappears?

132
00:11:54,480 --> 00:12:01,279
Because is space anything? Because space
isn't anything. Space is nothing. That's

133
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,279
the whole point of it. So
if the one planet disappeared, space would

134
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,080
reduce itself around to around that planet. And if that planet disappeared, the

135
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,200
whole universe would disappear because all that
would be would be space, yea.

136
00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:18,039
And of course space is just that
these are receptacle by which objects are.

137
00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:22,159
And this is again Isaac Newton's argument, you know, and Newtonian physics and

138
00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:26,840
everything else. So we're coming to
now get round these mysteries by saying that

139
00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:31,799
space is not really out there at
all, and then everything is a projection

140
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:39,679
of consciousness and its consciousness itself that's
projecting the imagery out from the brain out

141
00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:43,480
there to create the reality we perceive. It's all very very intriguing. I'm

142
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,320
at the very early days of it
at the moment. I mean, I've

143
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,879
wrote I've written about it in four
books now, and the more I dig

144
00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:54,039
into it, the more it intrigues
me. It's one of these things that

145
00:12:54,519 --> 00:13:00,840
it feels instinctively right. But the
question is how we pull the signs together

146
00:13:00,879 --> 00:13:05,960
and what it actually signifies and means. And I have to say the times

147
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:11,240
of driven myself crazy trying to imagine
myself going through space, but maybe we

148
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,480
do in the extra treadle, but
you know, but imagining myself going through

149
00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:20,360
space and imagine it never ends at
all, you know, And if space

150
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,159
does end what is beyond the It's
just unfeatherable as to what is what space

151
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,200
is actually that it can go on
and on because we know everything ends and

152
00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:33,240
begins. And even more interesting,
you know, when the Big Bang took

153
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:39,919
place, where did all that matter
come from? It was supposedly existing in

154
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:48,399
a point particle at an infinitely small
point particle for some apparent reason, just

155
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,799
decided to expand, and in expanding
it created more space. I mean,

156
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:58,519
the thing is with space, space
is expanding everywhere. So in other words,

157
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:05,399
we because we think the universe,
it's it's so difficult to explain that

158
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,039
space. Space is everywhere, and
space is expanding everywhere. You know,

159
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:18,879
it's just everywhere expanding getting bigger.
But where is this extra space coming from?

160
00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:22,919
But if it's space, it isn't
anything in the first place. Um.

161
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,039
And of course the big issue is
that what we consider to be solid

162
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:39,320
matter is ninety nine point nine nine
nine is actually it's not a solid object.

163
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,679
Is everything is actually and the objects
that are universe within a pencil thing?

164
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,559
Yeah, And effectively, you know
that that everything that we think is

165
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:54,960
real and solid isn't. It's not
solid. It's empty space. And the

166
00:14:54,000 --> 00:15:01,039
only thing that gives its solidity and
gives it a kind of solidity to us

167
00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:05,399
is something called electrostatic repulsion. And
it's quite simple. Electrostatic repulsion. Because

168
00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:07,840
I argue to people they don't believe
me, and I say, you never

169
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:15,679
touch anything. You never ever touch
anything. You might think you're sitting down

170
00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:22,039
now and your backsides touching the seat, but it's not because every single molecule,

171
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,840
or every single atom within each molecule
of the church, at the end

172
00:15:26,879 --> 00:15:30,200
of the atom, the outer ring
of the atom, at the outer shell

173
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,840
of the atom, are electrons whizzing
round. Now, electrons are negatively charged

174
00:15:35,919 --> 00:15:41,399
particles, so they're negative the negative
electricity. They're negatively charged. But the

175
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:46,519
same goes for the atoms on your
backside. They also at the end of

176
00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:52,440
their atoms in the final shell,
and electrons that are negatively charged. So

177
00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:56,440
you remember from school book physics,
you take a two negative magnets and try

178
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,080
to put them together. They repulse, and this is what's happening. So

179
00:16:00,159 --> 00:16:03,399
when you think you're actually feeling something, what you're actually feeling is the electrostatic

180
00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:08,840
repulsion. You never touch anything,
And then we have the problem even of

181
00:16:08,919 --> 00:16:14,600
sight, you know, we look
out the window and we see the world

182
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:22,279
around us. That site is just
extraordinary in that what is happening is that

183
00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:30,960
tiny tiny subatomic particles call photons a
bounce literally, they are the carriers of

184
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,399
electromagnetic signal. They're technically bosons,
And what they do is they're like a

185
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:41,200
stream of tiny bullets, only they're
not which will come on too late because

186
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,720
it gets more complex in this coming
from the sun and the light comes down

187
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:48,759
and these little bullets bounce off objects. And when they bounce off objects,

188
00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:52,720
they bounce off the object and they
come to your eye, and by bouncing

189
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,759
off the object, they carry the
information back to information again, they carry

190
00:16:56,759 --> 00:17:02,240
the information of what the object was
it hit. The photon then comes into

191
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:08,119
your eye and then it goes across
the aqueous humor in your eye and hits

192
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:14,200
your retina and trillions of these are
hitting your retina at the back of your

193
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,000
eye all the time, the retina. Then people think that line works like

194
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:23,960
a camera. It doesn't. What
happens is all the photons are then converted

195
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,519
into an electric signal, natural signal, which then goes to the darkest part

196
00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:32,640
of your brain, the back of
your brain. Here the the the visual

197
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,599
cortex, which then reputs together all
the information that's come allowed down the electrical

198
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:45,079
signal. Now that the image that
is on the retina is postage stamp sized

199
00:17:45,519 --> 00:17:49,759
and it's inverted and it's bent,
so all that that's the only information the

200
00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:56,000
retina sends to the to the to
the the the visual cortex. And yet

201
00:17:56,079 --> 00:18:03,839
you see this surrounding view image that's
all around you. It's multicolored, it's

202
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:10,640
the right way up, it's not
bent, and it's because the brain makes

203
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:17,279
it up. The brain interprets the
information and then gives it to whatever consciousness

204
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:18,839
is in the brain. Because remember, you know, there's not a little

205
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,960
version of you sitting in your head
with a mid screen in front of like

206
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:26,319
the non skills used to be,
which what most people think. There's something

207
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:33,519
far more complex going on than that. Now it gets even weirder because the

208
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,759
photons themselves are not the photons that
hit the object. What happens is the

209
00:18:38,839 --> 00:18:45,799
photon as it leaves the object gets
interfered with by the molecules, and every

210
00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:48,920
time it hits an air molecule,
what happens is the photon hits the molecule

211
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,759
gets taken into the atom, of
the molecule, and then another one is

212
00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:59,799
ejected, which is not the same
one, And every time it hits and

213
00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:04,880
the atom or another molecule, the
same thing happens. So the original photons

214
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,160
are not the same. In fact, as I say to people, when

215
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,440
you look out of a window,
the light that's coming through the window that

216
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,279
you think is the light coming from
the trees or whatever in the distance,

217
00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,000
it's not the same light. It's
a different light because what happens when it

218
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:23,440
hits the window, it gets converted
into new photons. And then we have

219
00:19:23,559 --> 00:19:30,279
the mystery of the photons themselves.
Because these things that make you see a

220
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,039
point particles now a point particle.
It's a very precise term. It's literally,

221
00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:38,319
however much you magnify it, it
will only still be a point.

222
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:45,240
You will never however powerful your microscope
could ever be, it would still only

223
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:51,000
ever be a point. They also
technically have no mass, these photons.

224
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:55,960
But what is even more interesting about
them is they can only ever travel at

225
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,519
the speed of light, which means
from the point of view of the photon,

226
00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:07,720
there is no time. So the
things that make you see are timeless

227
00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:11,880
and have no extension in space.
And yet these are the things that make

228
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,920
you see. So from the point
of view of a photon. So,

229
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,519
for instance, you look at the
Andromeda Galaxy up in the sky. The

230
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,599
photons that are hitting your eye from
the Andromeda Galaxy, as far as they

231
00:20:23,599 --> 00:20:29,039
are concerned, if they were sentient, it's all the same moment that the

232
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,079
moment they left the galaxy is the
same moment they hit your eye. And

233
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,920
then you start to think, well, these are the things that make us

234
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:41,440
see, These are the things that
make us perceive the things around us.

235
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,920
So there's empty space, which we
think is physically out there, made of

236
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:51,839
objects that are ninety nine empty space, which are then processed by the eye

237
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,799
and then the brain, and then
we have the magical thing of But who's

238
00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:00,079
the person looking at the image in
the head? Where does that come from?

239
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:07,160
Where is consciousness coming from? Where
do where does you know? Where

240
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,839
does it happen? How? How
does electrical impulses in the brain working with

241
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,240
chemicals create create David Young and Anthony
Peak all our hopes, our dreams,

242
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,799
our fears. It's like a wonderful
magic trick that everybody is so used to

243
00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:29,000
they never think about it. You
know, How does the brain is literally

244
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:34,160
just molecules. It's it's inanimate matter, but somehow, by some magic,

245
00:21:34,599 --> 00:21:45,240
it creates a sentient being that hopes
and fears and loves and anticipations out of

246
00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:48,400
nothing. You know, people argument
will turn around and say, well,

247
00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:52,480
consciousness is an epiphenomenon of brain processes, and by epiphenomena they mean, I

248
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,839
use the analogy. It's similar to
wetness of water. You know, you

249
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:03,079
get you get water. Water is
basically two gases, hydrogen and oxygen,

250
00:22:03,279 --> 00:22:08,359
and you get two atoms of hydrogen
and one atom of oxygen and you put

251
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:15,559
them together and these two gases suddenly
change into a liquid, but suddenly become

252
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,440
a liquid which is wet and it
has totally different properties. And that wetness

253
00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:26,279
is an epiphenomenon of the way water
works. And they say that consciousness is

254
00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:32,079
the same as that. Well,
I'm sorry. Water and wetness are both

255
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,599
things we can understand. I'm sorry, But two or three molecules coming together

256
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,720
and creating David Young, Sorry,
that's a totally different ball game. David

257
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,519
Young is not the molecules in his
head. He's something far more important than

258
00:22:45,559 --> 00:22:51,759
that, and far more intriguing than
that, because as I've argued in the

259
00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:53,680
past, and it's not an original
quotation, but it's still a wonderful one.

260
00:22:55,319 --> 00:23:02,279
Consciousness is when atoms come together in
a particular figuration to create something that

261
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:10,440
wonders what atoms are, and that
is extraordinarily wonderful. Now, in nineteen

262
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:15,599
ninety four, a young Australian philosopher
called David Chalmers stood up at the University

263
00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:19,079
of Arizona and he pointed this out, the thing I've just been saying,

264
00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:23,400
and he said, there are two
things that are that science have a problem

265
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,759
with at the moment. It's to
do both to do with the brain.

266
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,920
The first one is the soft problem. It's understanding how the brain works.

267
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,359
It's understanding how the neurons work,
how the neurochemicals work. But then you

268
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:41,720
have the hard problem, how the
hell does that create consciousness? And then

269
00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:45,279
we spin off and then people people
argue the things I write about, like

270
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,279
near death experiences and something you mentioned
before, out of body experiences, skeptics

271
00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:56,079
will turn around and go the hallucinations. Yeah, that explains a lot,

272
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,599
guys. So this is an easy
explanation in a label. And you've said

273
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,880
it's an hallucination, but that doesn't
explain anything. Life is an hallucination.

274
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:11,079
By using that same model, this
is an hallucination in exactly the same way.

275
00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:17,039
Everything we perceive is in some way
either brain created or downloaded by the

276
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:22,240
brain, or processed by the brain, or the brain itself is literally just

277
00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:27,960
a receiver of that information. And
I believe this is worse science has to

278
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,799
go in the twenty first and twenty
second centuries. This is worse science has

279
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:38,480
to go. It has to realize
that people when they have extraordinary experiences such

280
00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:44,839
as near death experiences, out of
the body experiences, recognition, telepathy,

281
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,200
all these things, they're telling us
something. And to dismiss them just because

282
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,839
your science can't explain them, because
they don't fit in in your scientific model,

283
00:24:55,279 --> 00:25:00,240
doesn't mean they don't happen. You
know, I know I've had two

284
00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:04,359
or three precognitive dreams in my life
from precognitive events. I know they were

285
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,759
precognitive. Nobody can tell me that
it's the law of large numbers, that

286
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:17,119
it was a coincidence. I know
what happened, and for me, that

287
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,160
needs to be explained. But every
single scientist in the world has the same

288
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,119
issue in the same problem I've just
mentioned they are sentient beings perceiving something,

289
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:29,880
but of course they have an excuse
for that. They have something they call

290
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,839
eliminative material eliminative materialism, and believe, David, this is what they believe.

291
00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:40,440
We're being fooled into thinking we're conscious. We're not really conscious at all.

292
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:45,440
We just think we are. How
you can fool something that's not conscious.

293
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:51,359
I have no idea. How can
you fool anything if it's not conscious.

294
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,799
You know, you fool something if
you fool it, which means it's

295
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:59,079
thinking about something, and then you're
like a magician doing something to make it

296
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:03,160
think something different. If I'm making
sense, yeah, well what you said

297
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:08,440
there it kind of in my mind. It means that some people may be

298
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:14,279
seeing things differently to other people are
seeing things. Did you see what I'm

299
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:18,960
getting it totally? What you're what
you're focusing in on is something called qualitiam,

300
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,480
and qualitia is the term used by
perception scientists. Like the color red,

301
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,079
the color red is a quality.
Pain is a qualitier. Pain does

302
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:36,480
not exist objectively. Pain is only
an experience of something. And I've said

303
00:26:36,519 --> 00:26:37,880
to people in the past and again
they don't quite get what I mean.

304
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:44,640
But I'll try and explain why is
pain pain unpleasant? What is it about

305
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,519
pain that makes it unpleasant? And
people go, well, it just hurts,

306
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,039
but that's not the point. It's
just a sensation, but it's unpleasant.

307
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,920
But the word is pain. If
there were no sentient creatures and no

308
00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:03,400
life anywhere, pain would disappear.
There would be no pain in the universe.

309
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,039
Would that because you only have to
have the perceiver of the pain,

310
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,839
just like you only have to have
the perceiver of the color red. There

311
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,000
is no color red out there.
There's no color green, there's no color

312
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:19,640
blue. All that happens is is
these little photons of a certain wavelength.

313
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:27,640
When they're vibrating at a certain wavelength, our brain interprets that particular wavelength to

314
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:33,480
be the color red. And that's
why we all perceive the same color,

315
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,720
or we believe we do. Is
because we're just reacting to the same vibration

316
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:41,680
states. But it doesn't mean that
red is out there. You know,

317
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:47,839
the universe is not green, it's
not red, it's not blue, it's

318
00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:51,279
not anything. You know. The
worldview of a bee is completely different to

319
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,680
our worldview. I mean, there
was a very famous essay I think was

320
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,880
it John Sir, I think wrote
many years ago. I can't remember the

321
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,880
writer of it, but it was
the essay was what it is life to

322
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,039
like to be a bat, and
it was to get people to think out

323
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:12,200
of their worldview. You know,
a bat echo navigates by sound. It

324
00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:17,680
doesn't have sights, So the worldview
of a bat is completely different to a

325
00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:21,920
human being. But that worldview is
no better or worse than our worldview.

326
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,400
It's just different. The same with
a bee. A bee SE's in for

327
00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:29,920
red, an ultra virt I think
it sas in ultra violet. So a

328
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:33,079
rose to a bee doesn't look like
a rose that we see. So when

329
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:36,119
we look at a rose and a
flower and we think, oh, look

330
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,759
at lot, there's beautiful colors,
they're there to attract the insects, they're

331
00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:44,079
not. The insects see different patterns
that we don't see. So when those

332
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:48,319
color, when you know there are
certain patterns in a leaf, for an

333
00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:52,519
insect, it looks completely different.
Whither how they perceive us? Actually,

334
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:59,559
insects often wonder human beings see us
as something else. Well, there was

335
00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:03,519
sort of research being done recently to
say that term bees are sentient. Bees

336
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:07,559
have a concept of self, which
begs certain questions. If that is the

337
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:10,880
case, you know, they've they've
done certain tests where they seem to react

338
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:17,559
in certain ways as if they have
a concept of self. Now this means

339
00:29:17,559 --> 00:29:19,240
as well, you know, we're
we're very specist in the way we see

340
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,799
the world. You know that we
think where at the top of the tree,

341
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:27,839
and you know, we're Homo sapiens
and therefore were wonderful, But the

342
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,160
level of things we don't know.
I'm always use the analogy here of modern

343
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,240
science, and modern science works,
and it's great, we're communicating here because

344
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:44,000
of modern science and because of material
reductionism in terms of understanding the world.

345
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:51,440
But we are rather similar to the
medieval schoolmen in the twelfth thirteenth century when

346
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,720
they believed that the world, the
world was the center of the universe.

347
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,319
But when they looked at the planets
there were problems because if the world was

348
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:06,519
the center of the universe and all
the planets revolved around the Earth and the

349
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:11,039
Sun revolved around the Earth, there
were certain movements of certain planets that didn't

350
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:14,839
make sense. They went back on
themselves as the year progressed, like Jupiter

351
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,640
would go through the sky and suddenly
go back on itself. Instead of actually

352
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,200
looking at the obvious answer, which
is that the Sun is the center of

353
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:30,400
the Solar System and we are on
planet, they created something they're called epicycles,

354
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,920
which were these incredibly complex mathematical models
to explain why the planets went in

355
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,039
what was called retrograde motion. And
this was the accepted science for years until

356
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:45,319
Copernicus came along and Kepler and said, now it doesn't work. Whereas if

357
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:48,839
you the much simpler model you know
of comes raising. The much simpler model

358
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,960
is that you know that we are
the third planet out from the Sun,

359
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,799
and then it works. But then
they then, you know, then we

360
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,359
get into the nineteenth century and French
peasants were saying that stones were falling from

361
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,119
the sky, and what did the
scientists say, that's impossible. Stones cannot

362
00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:10,920
support from the sky. There are
meteorites. But these people were so up

363
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:17,480
themselves with their worldview, and they're
accurate. They believe their hubris that they

364
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:23,039
believed that they knew everything little And
there was again something I've cited many times

365
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:30,720
in eighteen ninety four, I think
it was a guy called Michaelson or Mitchelson

366
00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:36,839
stood up. He was opening a
new extension to the University of Chicago,

367
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,960
I think, and he stood up
and he said, Western science has virtually

368
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:48,279
done everything. Now we've discovered virtually
everything, all we need to be doing.

369
00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:52,079
Our scientists from the future will only
be calculating to the sixth decimal point,

370
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,759
the finer tunes of the universe.
We know it so well. And

371
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,119
what happened was a couple of years
before there was a I love this story.

372
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,680
There was a young German students at
school and he didn't know what career

373
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,599
he wanted to take, so he
went to his tutor, and his tutor

374
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,279
said, well, what do you
like doing. He said, well,

375
00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:14,839
I'd loved playing music, so I'd
like to be a violinist and I'd like

376
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,079
to play a musician. And he
said, but I also love physics.

377
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,519
And the teacher turned around to be
said, well, physics, we know

378
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,839
virtually everything about the universe, so
maybe he should become a musician. But

379
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,359
this young man said, no,
I will become a scientist. And when

380
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,799
he was in his late thirties,
he'd become a professor in Berlin, and

381
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,799
he was approached by the German government
because the German government had a problem with

382
00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:45,279
their light bulbs. Their light bulbs
weren't as good as the British bull light

383
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:49,880
bulbs and the American light bulbs.
They wanted to understand energy more and how

384
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:57,000
energy worked, and they employed this
this scientist and he said, well,

385
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,079
we need to understand how energy flows. And he started looking at energy patterns

386
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:07,480
and it didn't work. It didn't
work mathematically. There was something wrong with

387
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:12,680
it. And he spent months driving
himself crazy trying to understand. Then he

388
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:15,599
had an inspiration, I'd say it
was his Damon suddenly said to him,

389
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:22,200
look at it totally differently. Energy
is not continual. It comes in little

390
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,160
packages, and each package is not
like that's next package. It's like a

391
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,000
group of pulses sort of thing.
And he called these little packages quanta,

392
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:38,519
which is Latin for package. And
in December nineteen hundred he stood up in

393
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:45,160
Berlin and made a speech and said, I don't know why, but the

394
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:49,000
only way I can make the maths
work is that energy is not continual.

395
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,000
And that started the quantum revolution.
And that young man was Max Plunk.

396
00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,039
Okay, so if Max Plunk could
not become a musician, may not necessarily

397
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:05,519
and we may not have even discovered
the quantum world. So suddenly, no

398
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:12,800
more than six years after Michaelson makes
his hubristic statement, suddenly somebody's come along

399
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,119
and said, the world doesn't work
like you think it does. Newton is

400
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:22,239
wrong. And then Einstein came along
five years later in nineteen o five in

401
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,480
his Great year, where he brought
out three papers that completely changed everything,

402
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,559
And it was then that the realization
was made. Another point about these photons

403
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:37,880
that I was talking about earlier.
If a photon is observed, it's a

404
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:44,800
point particle. If it's not observed, it's a wave. And depending upon

405
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,880
whether it is observed or not or
measured, is whether it's a point particle

406
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:54,920
or a wave. Because light shows
wave like things. It'll flow like a

407
00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,320
wave, but when you examine it, it's made a point particles. Now

408
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:07,199
that's impossible. A wave is something
like a water wave. It's something in

409
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,480
a medium. The water is the
medium and the wave is going through the

410
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:16,440
water. But if that is the
case, and while it is a wave,

411
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:21,039
how does it cross the vacuum of
space between the Sun and the Earth.

412
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:27,480
The space is a vacuum, so
how does how do light waves move

413
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,280
from the Sun to the Earth?
And the geniuses came up with this idea

414
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,159
of something they call a luminiferous ether. They believe that there was this kind

415
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:38,360
of ether, substance that you couldn't
measure, that was out in space and

416
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:44,719
the light waves went through the light
waves made the ether shake like sound waves.

417
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:50,079
And funnily enough, the guy that
proved the ether didn't exist was Michaelson,

418
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,880
the guy that made the statement in
eighteen ninety four. The final thing

419
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:58,199
is, and I love this is
there's a guy called J. J.

420
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,440
Thompson. I think it's J.
J. Thompson, and he was the

421
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,599
guy that discovered that the electron was
a particle. You know, these electrons

422
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:10,400
I was saying that on the edge
of the the atoms, and he discovered

423
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,199
they were little tiny particles, these
negatively charged particles. He got the Nobel

424
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:23,039
Prize for that. Thirty years later
his son got the Nobel Prize for proving

425
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:30,719
that electrons were waves. So a
father and a son both proved that the

426
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,960
same particle was two different things.
And this is how science is. So

427
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:38,679
when people and Brian Cox and everybody
else stands up there and go we know

428
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:44,320
everything. Yeah, you know,
sorry thing, we know that very little.

429
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:50,199
I agree. When you were talking
about planets and things, I had

430
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,519
to I had to think to myself, I'm sure as people are going to

431
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:57,199
be listening to this that believe in
the flat earth theory. Now, I

432
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,760
know it's a bit of a detour
as to what you've been talking about,

433
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:05,119
but obviously I don't have you have
ever had a conversation with a flat earth

434
00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:09,679
theorist about you know, the word
living under a dome? And that is

435
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,280
that I mean? And how much
you I mean, I don't believe even

436
00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:17,960
but these people are. But these
people are so convinced that this is the

437
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,679
way we are, and they are
like I can see why they are the

438
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:29,840
way they are, because they are
like the medieval schoolmen. That they do

439
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:36,480
is they observe what's around them,
and there their observations tell them that what

440
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:37,920
the Earth is flat. They look
at the Earth and they see that it's

441
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:43,480
flat. You know, so it's
for it's from it's empirical and it's from

442
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:47,320
observation. And there's no problem with
that because you know this is how well,

443
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,360
that's why we started believing the Earth
was flat, but exactly the same

444
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:58,000
reason. But then there are things
within the observations, the scientific observations that

445
00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:01,159
you can do that the way pendulums
move and everything else prove that the Earth

446
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:10,400
isn't flat. And I find it
extraordinary of how these people. I'm fascinated

447
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:16,440
by the whole thing, by the
way I whenever on Facebook and everything I

448
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:21,280
follow, because the same things come
up every time, the same idiot state

449
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:27,679
make the same idiotic statements like were
of the stars, you know, and

450
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,360
somebody will come back to them and
say and explain to them painfully and properly

451
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,920
what it is, and they just
ignore them and they go off to something

452
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,599
else. And it's because it's as
if whatever you say to them, you'll

453
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:44,280
never convince them, because they believe
a belief. It's not anything other than

454
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,119
a belief system. And many of
them are fundamentalist religious people, so therefore

455
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:50,599
there has to be a firmament.
And they turn around and they'll say,

456
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,559
oh, everything is everything, cgi
everything's faked. We never went to the

457
00:38:54,559 --> 00:38:59,840
moon, you know. But and
then they say, but there's there's a

458
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:06,840
there's there's a big wall down in
an Antarctica. Where are their photographs of

459
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,400
the wall around Antarctica? They haven't
got any, And they just need to

460
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,679
go on a bloody plane. You
can go round the bloody world on a

461
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,840
plane. The cones they're not though, they are convinced that we're not going

462
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,159
around the world as a as a
as A as a globe, that we're

463
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:27,199
going just across it. You know, we have these volume of how and

464
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,079
this is like an example of why
some why certain stars are seen in certain

465
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:35,840
aspects. I agree, certain parts
of the world, you know, and

466
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,360
you can just do a diagram and
show them that. You know, if

467
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,840
two people are in these locations,
if the worth was flat, they'd see

468
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,639
the same stars, but they don't, you know, and you go and

469
00:39:46,679 --> 00:39:51,039
then in the end, as swan
famous statement goes, you know, it's

470
00:39:51,079 --> 00:39:55,119
like wrestling with a wrestling with a
crap with a pig. You're not going

471
00:39:55,159 --> 00:40:00,400
to win because they like wrestling and
they're like crap and there is no thing

472
00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:04,159
you can do to convince them.
And they then start insulting you and they

473
00:40:04,159 --> 00:40:07,559
start calling you a globe tard,
and you give up and you think,

474
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:13,280
right, okaya. So just it's
just when you were talking about the penetry

475
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,760
systems, it just crossed my mind. I thought, I wonder how people

476
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,159
that do believe in all that because
there are I mean, I just find

477
00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:22,559
it unbelievable that there are people still
believing that the Earth is fleck, you

478
00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:27,320
know, and I think I think
it's a psyops. I think it was

479
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,320
deliberately done to see just how stupid
people can be and how they can be

480
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,159
fooled into believing. You know,
the thing about birds aren't real. You

481
00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:38,360
heard about this, Oh yeah,
birds aren't birds are real. This was

482
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,360
a group of students that were so
fed up with the flat earthers they came

483
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,880
they created this spoof thing called birds
Aren't Real, and they fell for it.

484
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,440
The same people that believe in the
flat earth started believing the birds aren't

485
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,639
real. That's it. That sums
it up for me. You know.

486
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:59,559
You know. The thing is,
people far more intelligent than me. People

487
00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:05,199
are more knowledgeable in terms of maths, more knowledgeable in terms of lots of

488
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,760
things, believe the Earth is a
seer or an obloid spheroid. I take

489
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,960
into account they are more intelligent than
me. These idiots, don't. They

490
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,320
have what's called dunning Krueger. Yeah, Well, they're saying that everyone's laying

491
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,960
to them that we're all being taken
in by by the lower I mean,

492
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,679
I believe in a lot of them
conspiracy theories actually, but that particular one,

493
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,880
I think he's a bit too far
beyond the pelle. You know,

494
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,719
well, don't you feel sometimes that
if you wanted to discredit all conspiracy theories,

495
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,679
the best way to discredit them is
to put in nonsensical things, yeah,

496
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,960
and have a kind of some people
that are involved in conspiracy theories will

497
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:49,119
believe in the nonsense. Then you
can focus in on the nonsense and say

498
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,239
it's all nonsense, yeah, because
that's what I believe happens. And this

499
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:58,079
is why it's there. It's there
to say that these people believe such nonsense,

500
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,719
you know, I mean of worse
conspiracies happen. You know that they

501
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:06,639
always have happened. You know.
It's naive to believe that our governments are

502
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,719
just looking after us. Oh yeah, you know. But my point of

503
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:15,000
view is always that my first point
port of call is always the cock up

504
00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:17,880
theory of history. The people that
rule us have got no more idea of

505
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,360
what they're doing than we have.
You know, they're all good, to

506
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:23,320
be honest, at the end of
the day, they are a sort of

507
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:29,119
Yeah, they just happens to have
been put into their position by by mistake

508
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,880
or by them. Sometimes we voted
for them, you know, God help

509
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:39,920
us. But it is very intriguing. So I do not criticize flat earthers.

510
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,599
All I can say. All I
can say to them is please just

511
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:51,239
listen to the people who really know
what they're talking about. Yet, research,

512
00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:54,960
do proper research. Don't go to
look for evidence. You know.

513
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,840
It's one of the things that I
always try not to do. I always

514
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,280
look when I'm doing my analysis,
and when I'm doing my research, I

515
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,639
look for the things that counter the
things I believe. In other words,

516
00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:10,800
I try to prove via a negative
I don't want to just pursue the things

517
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,679
because I believe in them, Because
do I believe in a lot of things

518
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,159
I write, I don't know.
I never start you know, this is

519
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,440
not how I work. I literally
look at the evidence and say, well

520
00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:27,599
what does that suggest, and then
I go from there. But I never

521
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,199
start with Like when I wrote my
first book, you know, and I

522
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,440
came up with my concept of cheating
the Ferryman, I didn't start that thinking

523
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,440
I've got this great idea. Now
I'm going to go out and prove it.

524
00:43:36,639 --> 00:43:38,039
It was quite the opposite. I
had no idea where I was going

525
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:42,519
with the book. I just wanted
an explanation for dejo Vous. And it

526
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:46,800
was then that the evidence came coming
out from the research papers, and I

527
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,119
was going, you know, if
you take that bit there, and you

528
00:43:50,199 --> 00:43:53,679
take that bit and put it together, it's suggestive of something really quite interesting.

529
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,599
And suddenly it was then that I
became interested in near death experiences.

530
00:43:58,599 --> 00:44:02,079
Out of the body experiences and all
these other things. I knew of them,

531
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,039
but I was never particularly interested in
them, you know, very much.

532
00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:07,559
My start, I was very much
into UFOs and things. That was

533
00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:12,000
my thing I was interested in.
But it was only when I got into

534
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:15,840
it and I was going, m
actually, these experiences actually can reflect science

535
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,280
and can be used, and science
can be used to prove them, you

536
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,840
know. So when people claim that
they've had extraordinary experiences, I tend to

537
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,880
believe them because people come to me
and they'll tell me things, and they'll

538
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,400
tell me things in private that they've
never told anybody else, So why would

539
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,719
they do that, you know?
And also the people that do come and

540
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,000
told these type of things that they're
often very similar are though they're a similar

541
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:44,920
experience as well. Yeah, they
are. And that's the thing, how

542
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,119
similar near death experiences are, how
similar out of the body experiences are,

543
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,840
how similar lucid dreaming is for people, the very fact that they're similar,

544
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,840
and they are, they're subtly different
in different cultures. But then again,

545
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,280
I would argue that if we are
co creating our reality, and that our

546
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:08,639
reality is influenced by our education and
our culture, they will be subtly different.

547
00:45:10,039 --> 00:45:14,639
And I believe that also the universe
out there is subtly different depending upon

548
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,760
other people. For instance, I
probably you know, if I was fair,

549
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:23,559
I would say that slat earths probably
exist in a flat Earth because they

550
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:30,000
collectively believe. And I call this
the eggregorial, the idea, if you

551
00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:34,559
get enough people together believing something,
it seems to come into existence. Their

552
00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:37,880
manufacturing their own existence. Yeah,
you know, and there is why certain

553
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,920
people, you know, people who
are very religious, you know, their

554
00:45:42,039 --> 00:45:45,400
worldview is very different. And again
this is a known sociological effect. It's

555
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:50,360
called the saber wolf. You know, we're by people collectively believe things and

556
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,360
they seem like, for instance,
you know, what was it five thousand

557
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:58,800
people saw the sun spin in the
sky at Fatima in what nineteen seventeen.

558
00:45:59,639 --> 00:46:04,559
They all couldn't be wrong. They
all saw something. So what was it?

559
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,960
You know, was it a UFO? You know, can't be That's

560
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:09,960
the possibility, isn't it. Yeah, there could have been something like that.

561
00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:14,239
I went I for one, But
do believe in UFOs. I've seen.

562
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,719
I've seen a couple myself, really, yeah, if I ever told

563
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,559
you. But the first one I
saw I was back in the nineteen sixty

564
00:46:21,559 --> 00:46:24,559
seven. Actually, I was actually
walking home from my girlfriends at the time,

565
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,639
and it was a big oval orange
object going across the sky was pulsating

566
00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:32,119
and it was all different shades of
orange. And we were talking about the

567
00:46:32,519 --> 00:46:36,760
colors earlier. You were talking about
the colors earlier on. But they were

568
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,679
all different shades of orange. But
they weren't like a bright Lowe talk of

569
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,960
thing. It was like an incandescent
light, you know, and it's completely

570
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,000
solid. And I was watching it
for quite some time. Where was that

571
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,960
was? That was in Essex?
No? There was in Essex, Yeah,

572
00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:54,440
I was. I was actually the
embezzlement. Actually, um well,

573
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,079
a friend of mine, a friend
of mine father was radar operator in the

574
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:07,239
Second World Warm and he was based
in Anglicy, North Wales, and Alan

575
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:14,000
was telling me that his father told
him that they regularly, regularly, like

576
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,760
once every two or three days,
would pick up objects flying up the Irish

577
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,280
Sea, traveling at multiple times to
speed a sound. They got used to

578
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:29,199
them. So what were they u
there? Clearly was something that was being

579
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,239
picked up. Yeah, yeah,
you know, and you think, well,

580
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,440
interesting, And again I'm very much
at much of the Jacques Valet's school

581
00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:42,679
of UFOs that they seemed to culturally, they're almost if they're joking with us.

582
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,079
There's a game going on, you
know, there's this almost jokiness,

583
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,880
you know, Is that the same? What can we have them believe?

584
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:57,840
Now? They seem to change the
shape of the cross as well of them

585
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,960
yea. And of course the countergument
to that is, of course, well

586
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:05,599
people, the people see what they're
expecting to see. But the counter argument

587
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,599
is, well, there could be
other objects in the sky that we don't

588
00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:13,360
anticipate being flying objects, and we
don't see them as flying objects, so

589
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,159
we don't see them, you know, So there is that counter argument there

590
00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:20,239
as well. In fact, the
conference I'm doing in California is the world's

591
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,800
biggest UFO conference. UM and were
some of the biggest UFO researchers in the

592
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,800
world will be there. Um,
and I it's gonna be interesting to talk

593
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,519
to them because UFOs have always intrigued
me. You know, it's something you

594
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:36,360
know, you do. There's a
few people who have been on this show

595
00:48:36,519 --> 00:48:43,039
before. Nick Pope, well no
quote will say who knows who I am?

596
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,800
He actually did an intro for the
show, all right, because Nick

597
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,320
is Nick's going to be there,
so yeah, yeah, yeah, David

598
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,480
Silho, Andrew Collins, who lives
just up the road to me. Actually

599
00:48:53,519 --> 00:49:01,239
it's just off the island and it
gave you a book that But Andrew is

600
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:07,000
is fascinating. Actually, I'm sure
you'll enjoy meeting him because he's absolutely fascinating.

601
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:12,960
Um. Obviously you mentioned Graham Handcockey, got Richard Dolan, Nick,

602
00:49:13,159 --> 00:49:16,320
Nick Redfernst been on the show as
well. Hugh Newman is another person though

603
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:21,639
I have got a lot of great
respect for is an expert on the or

604
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:29,320
basically historical um stonehenge, everything like
that. But yeah, you'll you'll have

605
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,559
a fensa and you'll be a good
company because honestly, a lot of these

606
00:49:32,639 --> 00:49:37,360
people were actually experts in all their
fields, and you're going to be really

607
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:42,519
a good company, and I'm really
really looking forward. It's World Deserve that

608
00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:45,000
you are going. I'm pleased you're
going actually because I think you're you're a

609
00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:51,320
good company. That's what I can
say, thank you. And that's just

610
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,199
in case someone's listening. And what's
to go to. That's the Indian Worlds,

611
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,159
California on Junior, second to the
fourth. I don't know if all

612
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:01,880
the tickets are sold yet because I
don't know it actually goes on. It's

613
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:07,320
effectively starts on the Friday, really
and on the Monday. There are intensives

614
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:13,159
which I'll be doing one of the
intensives, and Graham Hancock's doing one.

615
00:50:13,519 --> 00:50:17,960
I'm doing one, Lynda Moulton how
is doing one, my Andrew Gallamour is

616
00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:22,239
doing one. And the three hours
and the funny if I'll be doing three

617
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:27,320
hours of the holographic Universe. So
I'll be taking people right through, yeah,

618
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,000
the things we touched upon, but
I'll be doing you know, giving

619
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:35,320
examples, giving people examples scientific papers
if they want to read them as to

620
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:37,800
why the universe is so strange.
Yeah, I can guarantee you'll be getting

621
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,920
a lot of questions afterwards. Oh, I'm sure. I'm just just in

622
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,360
case we've got any US listeners listening
on this. It's so India Worlds contacting

623
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,119
the Desert June to second during the
fourth You may still be able to get

624
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:54,079
tickets if you look for Contact of
the Desert if you go online. But

625
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:01,360
apart from that, it's um.
I wanted to mention another thing to you.

626
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,920
I mean, I don't know if
you've ever followed the work of David

627
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,280
Dyke at all. I don't know
what yours are. YEA. The most

628
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,960
recent book I read, if it
is, called The Trap, goes very

629
00:51:12,039 --> 00:51:15,679
much along a similar line, similar
lines of what you've been talking about the

630
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:21,760
holographic universe, but he kind of
goes on the aspects of that we live

631
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:28,400
in a three D existence, there's
a fourth dimension where we're being controlled by

632
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:34,280
maybe possibly an alien race, but
we actually belong in the fifth dimension.

633
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,920
What do you see? What I
get it? Or we've got any ideas

634
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:47,519
on no theory. I it's not
well. And that song shot to say

635
00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:51,519
it's not all David Dyke's theory,
I mean obviously goes along with you,

636
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,119
I know, I mean other people's
research as well. There was there was

637
00:51:54,159 --> 00:51:58,599
a time when there were there were
a group of people I knew who were

638
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,280
knew David, and I think I
spoke to him once. I think we

639
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:07,480
exchange a phone call once. But
I really don't do the shapelifting shape shifting

640
00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:12,880
lizards. It doesn't think do it. You know, one one and one

641
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,880
equals two. It doesn't have four
thousand, three hundred and twenty four.

642
00:52:15,079 --> 00:52:21,400
You know, And well what you
say you mentioned a shape shift. You

643
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,880
know. The thing is of several
people on this show that I've actually experienced

644
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:29,559
people that you know, the shape
shifted experience. They've seen things like that.

645
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,880
So I don't know. I mean, it's again the point I will

646
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,760
always make, seeing is believing,
and if you have experienced these things,

647
00:52:38,679 --> 00:52:43,199
you know. And the problem is, though, because it's a subjective experience,

648
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,639
it's how you can ever prove that
in any way. And it must

649
00:52:47,639 --> 00:52:52,480
be very frightening because if you do
see something like that and everybody else is

650
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:57,119
in denial about it, but you
know there are you know again, you

651
00:52:57,159 --> 00:52:59,519
know, I'm going to contradict myself
here and say, but you know,

652
00:53:00,199 --> 00:53:05,360
there are people who have mental illnesses. You see things, it doesn't mean

653
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,840
they're really there. But the counter
argument is, well, we don't know

654
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,079
what hallucinations are anyway, so we
need to be very very careful though when

655
00:53:12,159 --> 00:53:17,159
we say that a hallucination is something
that isn't real, well, I'm not

656
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:22,760
sure about that, because because everything
is an hallucination. So coming back to

657
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,519
my a gregorial model, it could
be that if you genuinely believe that these

658
00:53:25,679 --> 00:53:30,079
entities are there, you'll see them. And could it be that they use

659
00:53:30,039 --> 00:53:35,800
your expectations of them to come through
in one way or another. And again,

660
00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:38,039
you know, there's people I'm working
with in American who are building upon

661
00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:45,480
the electrical model and the plasma model
of these entities, and again I call

662
00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:49,559
them egrigors. In my book The
Hidden Universe, I have sections on this.

663
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,760
So I do not dismiss these things. All I do is that the

664
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:01,960
evidence that I've got is not suggestive
of it. So I don't tend to

665
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:07,039
engage with that type of world.
It's just a personal choice, really,

666
00:54:07,039 --> 00:54:10,679
I think, yeah, yeah,
yeah. The other connections are all the

667
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:17,679
holographic David David and I have you
know, many many people have said,

668
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,760
you know that there's a lot of
similarities between what David says and what I

669
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,519
say. The only thing is I
tend to stay keep my feet on the

670
00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:32,559
ground and don't jump into conspiracy theories, extreme conspiracy theories, and lord knows

671
00:54:32,599 --> 00:54:37,000
what else because I don't your respect
there as I don't. You know,

672
00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:42,559
that's not the evidence that I'm finding. I think it's far more interesting and

673
00:54:42,639 --> 00:54:46,719
far more exciting to pursue what we
do actually know about it. You know,

674
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,920
But he may be proved, right, he may, you know,

675
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,199
there's who's to say, yeah,
sorry, with a lot of things about

676
00:54:54,199 --> 00:54:58,199
what's happened to doing with this Penny. I think it's improved with a lot

677
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:02,039
of things. But what's been going
on? What about do you actually believe

678
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:07,440
in ghosts and things like yourself?
Or do you think that's some other kind

679
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:09,639
of a You know, it's an
area, it's an area I've written about,

680
00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:17,679
and it's it's an intriguing area.
Yes, I believe that people see

681
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:23,639
these things. It's what they really
are and what they tell us about the

682
00:55:23,679 --> 00:55:29,679
true nature of reality. Again,
there's a good friend of mine called Paulino,

683
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:36,280
who is Brian ENO's cousin roxy music, and he lives in America,

684
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,920
and he's been researching these things for
many many years, and some of the

685
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,280
things he's told me, the things
he's witnessed, are quite extraordinary. But

686
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,760
it seems to me that it's almost
like again glimpsing other dimensions of space time.

687
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,199
Maybe they're time slips, who knows, Because for instance, he told

688
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:59,599
me a story he was researching somewhere
in upstate Maine in New England, and

689
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,119
they were surrounded by It was late
at night, and they were out in

690
00:56:05,159 --> 00:56:08,119
the countryside, and him and his
associates were surrounded by the sound of ox

691
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:14,760
carts going along the road and cattle
mowing and everything. People talking, and

692
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,679
the people were talking to each other
in a language that they could not understand,

693
00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:22,119
but they picked up a few of
the words and few of the sounds

694
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:24,960
and the intonation, and they checked
it out, and the people were talking

695
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:30,119
Welsh. And they then did some
research and lo and behold discovered that there

696
00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:35,599
had been a Welsh speaking community in
that part of Maine in the seventeenth century.

697
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,639
And to him, he said,
for him, that was absolute proof

698
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,320
that some kind of time slip was
taking place, he said, because we

699
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,559
wouldn't make that up, you know, how would we know that? You

700
00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:50,480
know? So to me, and
that the creepiest story was the story,

701
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:57,039
he said, of the two child
though. There was a haunting in the

702
00:56:57,159 --> 00:57:00,599
basement of a house in America,
and they went in there and they saw

703
00:57:00,679 --> 00:57:05,239
two children, and the children were
holding onto each other, and they were

704
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,280
like flickering on and out like sort
of like holographic images, and the children

705
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,679
could see them because the children were
looking at them, being frightened. And

706
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:15,199
then they shimmered and disappeared. And
he said it was as if again it

707
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:21,000
was kind of two realities overlapping,
and they could see each other. And

708
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:23,920
he said, you know, we've
got no way of knowing what's really happening

709
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:29,360
here. But if the nature of
reality is holographic, suddenly the whole of

710
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:32,480
these images and everything, suddenly it
becomes far more complex and far more interesting.

711
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:37,360
I think, you know, in
terms of what my argument always is

712
00:57:37,639 --> 00:57:40,519
is that there are two types of
writers. There's the writers that just bang

713
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:44,559
you with anecdotes. You know,
they'll say that, you know, anecdotes

714
00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:46,719
after anoking do it, and it's
great and it's interesting. But for me,

715
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:51,519
I want to understand. I want
to understand why these things happened.

716
00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:55,199
I want to understand what is the
background to near death experiences, you know,

717
00:57:55,360 --> 00:58:00,519
rather than just listing people's near death
experiences. What does he mean?

718
00:58:00,119 --> 00:58:04,800
And to me, that's the most
important thing. Other writers take different approaches,

719
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,119
and there's no right or wrong approach. I don't. I'm not condemning

720
00:58:07,159 --> 00:58:08,559
it at all. You know,
some of their books are really fascinating,

721
00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:13,760
but it's just a different kind of
what we're searching for. I think,

722
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,800
yeah, yeah, I think a
lot of that is aimed at people who

723
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,519
want their evidence that there is a
life after death basically, and that's the

724
00:58:20,599 --> 00:58:24,280
easiest way by hearing of other people's
anecdotes and stories and you know, and

725
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,519
I think it's very unfair when they
use the quotation they say that the plural

726
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:31,800
of anecdote is not evidence. Well, it actually is in a course of

727
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,920
law, because if three or four
people all say they've seen the same thing

728
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,000
and the same incident and the same
person running out of a bank carrying some

729
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:43,480
money, that that person is going
to be found guilty, and then we

730
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:50,480
have a jury and that's twelve people
who decide by agreeing that something has happened.

731
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,719
So it's it's not you know,
anecdotes or anecdotes, but they're very

732
00:58:52,719 --> 00:58:58,000
important and I have people who've approached
me over the last two decades, and

733
00:58:58,119 --> 00:59:00,639
some of the experiences they've had,
as I said before, her extraordinary,

734
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:07,239
you know. And they're just normal
people, and the a, the abnormal

735
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,320
and the unusual is around us all
the time. It's just we don't talk

736
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:13,840
about it because we think people if
we talk about if people want us certified.

737
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,920
Yeah, absolutely, that's the danger. Yeah. Well, it's been

738
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:22,320
absolutely fascinating. So I thank you
very much for coming on. And I

739
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:27,599
really hope you'll enjoy your trip to
the US. So I know you will

740
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,400
save troubles. Thank you, David. As I say, get to say,

741
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:34,920
let's say that's a nick and Andrew
for me that I will if I

742
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,280
say, oh, but I'm sure
they won't. I'm sure they won't.

743
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:43,000
You're well known, well know about
that. But no, enjoy your trip

744
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:46,920
and obviously we'll be looking out for
photos and things while you're absolutely I'm hoping

745
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:52,519
to I'll be filming some things and
talking to people and linking with people and

746
00:59:52,679 --> 00:59:58,039
updating stuff on on Instagram, out
and Instagram and on Facebook. So I'll

747
00:59:58,119 --> 01:00:00,000
keep everybody informed if I'm allowed to
do so. That's the thing I'm not

748
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:04,679
sure well, I mentioned you can
do your own private little bits and pieces,

749
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,679
can't you. I'll be looking out
for it anyway. I'll put on

750
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,760
things about your books and things on
the paran all the Dimensions page as that

751
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:15,039
would normally do, and they'll be
looking out for any photos and that while

752
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:16,639
you're there. We'll do. And
I'd love to say thank you very much

753
01:00:16,679 --> 01:00:20,639
for coming along to my event.
Oh it was fantastic. I hope to

754
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,519
come along and see you again.
Actually at some point, well we met

755
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:25,920
up funny and I'll find met up
with a few people yesterday in the same

756
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,400
place we met up in London.
Yeah, you know, in February January.

757
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,559
I mean when you come back,
please, if you go to do

758
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:36,400
another one, please get in touch
and let me know and I'll certainly come

759
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,639
down the Blood. No, definitely, definitely we will do. That's going

760
01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:40,440
to be our location. We're going
to try and meet in the future.

761
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,679
Talking to you, David all the
best, Thank you, Tony, and

762
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:49,840
save travels and take enjoy your trip. And Jack. Here there we are.

763
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,440
That was Anthony Peak. Thank you, Anthony, amazing as always.

764
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:57,159
Okay, the next show is back
on schedule and it will be Monday,

765
01:00:57,239 --> 01:01:01,079
the twelfth of June, and that
will be Mary rod Will. But between

766
01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:04,400
now and then, if you'd like
to get in touch with me at all

767
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,039
my email addresses. David Young took
you in at Yoho dot co dot UK.

768
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:14,400
That's David Young took you in at
Yoho dot co dot UK. So

769
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,480
until June the twelfth, but I
will be speaking to you again with Mary

770
01:01:17,559 --> 01:01:22,000
rod Will as a guest. I
wish you all fair will and take care

771
01:01:22,039 --> 01:01:29,000
of yourselves. Blah blah. One
morning I felt this blast of light coming

772
01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:30,880
in the window. I woke up
for a split second and fell back to

773
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,760
sleep, And the next thing I
know, I was outside of my body,

774
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,800
looking at my body, and there
was a light leaving my body and

775
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:44,000
I just sort of said, I
must be Dad. That wasn't what I

776
01:01:44,079 --> 01:02:45,000
bought myself. Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly
on Mondays on the Paranormal UK Radio Network.