Hello, my friends across the fruited and rooted plain. It's time for the
Gardening Simplified Show with Stacey Hervella, me Rick Weist, and our engineer and
producer Adrianna Robinson coming to you from the beautiful studio A here at proven Winter's
color Choice shrubs. Okay, Stacey, it's Thanksgiving time. Time to eat?
Yay. You know. I was reflecting on the writing of Michael Poland
and his famous quote eat food, not too much, mostly plants, and
I say, grow more plants to eat, especially if kids are around.
Grow them in containers. If you have to grow them in containers. I
like vegetables. Maybe it's because I worked on a muck farm as a kid.
A muckfarm. A muck farm, what's muckfarm? A muckfarm is black
pad type dirt where we planted and pulled onions, dill radishes. To this
day, I love rutt and celery and celery, that big sealery growing area.
Any time you got the muck, Yeah, exactly. So it's the
essential aromatic oils that accumulate and plant leaves, and it produces the flavors of
vegetables. Think of basil or a reagano also as herbs. Of course,
radishes, carrots, bell peppers, cucumbers, snappeas, celery. They're more
delicious to eat raw. I do not like cooked culiflower, by the way,
I don't really like it rare, but you know what, I can
always eat it roasted. Oh, roasty cauliflower is pretty great. And then,
of course potatoes are beets. They're better cooked than eating them raw.
I make a raw beet salad, but it's shredded. You know, no
one's like biting into a beat like an apple or anything. My favorites,
oddly enough, are green peppers and celery. And I'll share with you the
story the battle of Boor and Cool. The Battle of boorn Cool was between
me and my parents. My parents were in Decale before it was cool to
be in Decale, and the Dutch have this very peculiar way of making food
at night. We would have born coal or now they call it stump pot,
and essentially what they do is they cook kale and mix it with potatoes.
As a kid, I revolted. There was no way that there was
no way that I was going to eat that. And like I said that,
you know, my parents were Dutch and the Dutch have this peculiar thing
where you eat born coal or stump pot for dinner and then you eat chocolate
for breakfast. We would get something called hoggle slog, which is just like
sprinkles all over toasts. So you know, it was strange. But the
point here is that it's biologically proven that as we get older, our taste
buds evolve and decrease in number. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm
papa to a grandson, Max, who just voraciously eats vegetables. Peppers,
you know, you name it, kiwed beans, green zebra, tomatoes,
just non a cucumber. It's amazing to watch. But for most kids,
the bitter taste of vegetables, they kind of revolt against them until you become
an adult. It's true, kids can be very polarized on vegetables. But
you know, I do think that things are improving since the time that you
or I were kids. You know, back then, everybody cooked vegetables to
within an inch of their life, right. Everything was just boiled and you
know, terrible or just canned. And nowadays, I think, you know,
people are so much more educated about cooking vegetables in a way that makes
them taste good, makes them nutritious. You can get pretty much any vegetable
any day of the year fresh and so well. Yes, kids are always
going to be more sensitive to bitter flavors and that kind of thing. I
think that the future is brighter for kids and vegetables than it ever was in
the past. I think so too, And I think we have to remember
that kids operate based on instinct. It's just like the deer browsing through your
landscape, Okay, and if it's bitter, it almost tastes as though it's
kind of toxic, and so they have to build up this. They have
to build up this taste through repeated exposure. But getting there, I guess,
is a little bit tough. And then in addition to that, I
have found that kids associate sweets, cake, ice cream, et cetera with
good times. Yeah that's true. Yeah, and so you've got all that
battling against you. But you can make vegetables taste, make vegetables more tasty
for kids to get them to eat it. I think kids sometimes view junk
food as a reward and vegetables as a chore. Trying to break that cycle
is it can be difficult. Let me give you a limerick that I wrote
on this subject. There was a young man straightened out when told to eat
veggies, would pout. With many appeals, he would force down his meals,
and soon he began to sprout. Now old, he still likes his
sweets. Yeah, I'm talking about myself. Succumbs to temptations with treats.
Sugar plums dance in his head. He now eats vegetables instead, resigned a
chewing on raw beats. Time and life changed his station. Veggies no longer
cause agitation. I thought there was a place called Cole Robbie. Now I
slice it and dip it in was sabi. I just need a vegucation.
Ah, well, you know, it's just important. And the other thing
that I wanted to point out, and that I have found with kids is
that if they're surrounded by gardeners or surround buy a vegetable garden from a young
age, they tend to they tend to appreciate vegetables. Yeah. I think
it makes a huge difference to actually see the vegetables growing and to think of
them less is something off a shelf and something that is actually growing. And
you know, a red tomato and a plastic container is one thing, but
a beautiful ripe tomato on a vine on a beautiful summer day is quite another.
And as kids get more curious about that kind of thing, then you
know, it kind of opens up their world. And that's what I found.
If Max can go into the garden and pick a pepper or a cucumber,
bring it inside and wash it, he enjoys getting it. It's a
great feeling. It's a feeling you never outgrow, whether you're four years old
or much older. So cook to try to reduce bitterness. I know when
I discovered maple syrup on Brussels sprouts, it changed my life. I did
put veggies on pizza, for example, dips, and then repetition. I
mean, think of us as adults coffee or beer or dark chocolate. There
was repetition involved to acquire a taste, and I think the same applies two
kids. Yeah, do you have a favorite vegetable to eat? I could
probably be better off telling you the vegetables I don't like to eat. The
vegetables I do like to eat because I do well. You know, I
grew up my dad owned a produce store and was very passionate about fresh produce.
So even though I grew up in the seventies and eighties, yeah,
we had fresh vegetables. We never had canned or frozen vegetables in the house.
Ever. We always had fresh vegetables and he was a fan of cooking
them minimally. So we always had like, really good, high quality vegetables
ever since I was a kid, and so I've actually always really liked vegetables.
Cauliflower, I've been a little on the fence on that's probably one that's
not my absolute favorite, although I do like it. You know, good
Indian potato and couliflower dish. It's hard to beat. And like I said,
I do like to roast it. But I don't really love cooked green
peppers really, I love them raw. I like green peppers anyway. I
can get when you said you like green peppers and celery. Those are two
of the most polarizing vegetables and they're like your two favorites. Well, actually,
my favorite, if push came to shovel and I had to tell you
what my favorite is, especially during the holidays and Thanksgiving, it would be
green bean casserole. Oh well, that's a fair bit more than a vegetable.
But you got mushrooms in there, some onions, vegetables in there,
it counts. Yeah, yeah, green bean casserole. I mean, talk
about taste buds. By the way, another thing for people who have me
on their Christmas list for me, the wasabi and soy sauce almonds. Oh
as a snack. Have you had those? I have not had those,
but I am a big fan of the wassabi peas. Oh oh yeah,
those are delicious. Yeah, that's great stuff, great stuff. And I
was thinking also about deep fried maple leaves. So in Minot City, Japan,
they use a tempura butter coating on these on these maple leaves, so
it's flour, egg, yolks, and cold water and they deep fry them,
and wow, I guess it's supposed to be absolutely delicious. So I
would love to add that to the menu for Thanksgiving. Oh are you going
to try it? I might? Okay, really freak out your guests this
year. Well, I'm hungry, so let's take a break. And then
after the break we are going to move to plants on Trial and see what
Stacey has on her mind today. Here on the Gardening Simplified show, stay
tuned, proven winners. Colored Choice Shrubs cares about your success in the garden.
That's why we trial and test all of shrubs for eight to ten years,
making sure they outperform everything else on the market. Look for them and
the distinctive white container at your local garden center. Greeting's Gardening friends, and
welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. You know we ended the last segment.
You were talking Rick about deep fried maple leaves, which is something that
they make in Japan, and the Japanese word for maple is momiji. And
I happen to have a friend who is Japanese and I was visiting Japan with
her in fall, and so we're talking about maple leaves, and of course
Japanese maples are understandably everywhere in Japan, and they have that very distinctive five
lobed leaf. And so as a kid in Japan, you give your friend
a momiji, like you smack him on the back and if it leaves a
handprint, you gave him a momiji a maple leaf. Excellent. So I'm
going to make sure to explain that first before I do it to something you
might want to do that while you serve them your deep fried maple leaves to
make up for it. So there's a little fun fact to get us started.
And so today it's time for Plants on Trial. We're going to talk
about one of the three hundred and twenty five plus Proven Winter's Color Choice shrubs.
You know, I always have fun trying to relate it to the topic,
And of course today's topic, being just before Thanksgiving, is vegetables,
and it is not vegetables, so I'll say that right off the bat,
this is not a plant that you're going to eat. We do have some
edible plants in the Proven Winter's Color Choice line, most of these are not
really going to be on the market abundantly until next year at the earliest.
For example, we have a beautiful, fabulous, amazing new BlackBerry which would
not be ready now to summer fruit, but called Taste of Heaven. It's
really interesting and we'll certainly be talking about that in the future on the show.
But I couldn't tie it into the edibles. But I did tie it
in to today's show in two ways. The plant on trial is Arctic Fire
yellow Dot, and the two reasons we're covering it today Number one is because
it's a plant that I am extremely grateful for and in the spirit of Thanksgiving.
And two, it's going to look amazing on your holiday table as a
decoration. You won't be eating it, no one will be. No on
the twigs not toxic if they do. But we don't recommend it, but
it's a great plant for holiday decor now. It is a selection of our
native red twig dogwood. So the red twig dogwood is you know, if
you live anywhere pretty much in most of the eastern US, say north of
about North Carolina, red twig dogwood is one of the most ubiquitous roadside plants
that I can think of. I mean clipped some yesterday. It grows everywhere,
and I was looking at a grove of them outside my mom's window,
thinking I need to prune those. I'd like those for gres. Well,
we're going to get into some fruiting, some pruning tips. So yes,
they are a plant that does benefit from pruning, for sure. But they're
ubiquitous. And even though you might not notice them for the most part of
the year, by the time the foliage starts dropping in autumn, they are
very noticeable. And that's because the red color. It's called red twig dogwood.
The red color on their stems doesn't really develop until it gets cold out
and you really see it now. It's very similar with Arctic fire yellow,
which sounds funny because it is a red twig dogwood, but it's a yellow
red twig dogwood, so it's a yellow twig dogwood. But then people might
not know what you're talking about it. But it is a corn of cericia,
and this is very confusing. Cornis cericia are native beautiful red osure dogwoods,
and people also call it and similarly, you know, it doesn't really
look like much until about October the foliage starts to drop, it gets colder,
and then the stems just turn this amazing bright yellow color. I noticed
that in the garden center in pots. Those stems bring sunshine to your life.
I mean they have got so bright, are really really bright, and
I think, you know, as ubiquitous and wonderful and reliable as red twig
dogwood is, it's really nice to have something that's a little bit different than
red twig. You know, the red is great, but one of the
things about the red, you know, it can look a little bit dark
in the landscape depending on where you have it planted, whereas the yellow,
whether you have it free standing with nothing behind it, or you've got it
up against something to you know, get that contrast. It is definitely the
thing to brighten up your landscape fall winter and into early spring. So it
is otherwise, you know, Besides, the color of the stems grows pretty
much just like the other ones. It's going to do well in sort of
more wet soils, which is how they grow naturally. Now I have had
good success growing them in my very sandy soil. They're not going to grow
as fast, which can be a good thing because some of these plants are
quite vigorous. Now, Arctic Fire Yellow only going to reach about four to
five feet tall and about six feet wide, which is, you know,
probably about two thirds the size of your you know, average one. That
before we introduce the Arctic Fire series, which of course is more dwarf.
And of course I'm glad because it is a native plant. You know,
I love my native plants. The foliage supports all sorts of different larva of
caterpillars, all sorts of caterpillars, larva of butterflies and moths, and just
generally looks great if you let it flower, attracts a ton of pollinators.
Now, a lot of people don't actually see their red twig dogwood's flower because
they've pruned them, So most people don't even think about them as a flowering
plant. But you can prune them in such a way that they will actually
still flower. Now you're talking about the ones that you saw outside your mom's
room. Now. The thing about red twig dogwood that a lot of people
and this is true of yellow twig dogwood so Arctic fire yellow as well,
is that if you do not prune it, you will lose the color because
as those stems get more mature, they take on quirky, more bark like
cells, and that completely obscures the color. So basically, you really don't
want stems if you're growing it for color. Now, if you don't care
about the color, let it do its thing. It'll be fine, The
plant will be fine. We're again we're talking about human desires here. You
don't want any stems on it that are much more than three years old.
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, the plant responds incredibly to pruning. I
think it's easy to grow, and you want to be pruning it because it
just responds really well with beautiful, colorful branch. And you know, the
nice thing about pruning it is that the prunings are actually useful because you can
bring them inside and use them in holiday tocrror or use them outside. And
that was something you know, when I was a rooftop gardener that we did
on all of the properties that we took care of, is make arrangements of
red and yellow twigged dogwood, painted stems, birch stems, stuff like that
to just bring some interest to the landscape in the off season. So the
nice thing is that, yes, you should keep your red twig or yellow
twig dog with two three year old and younger stems, but you can do
that pruning now without harming the plant at all, and then take the stems
that you're pruning out use them, and then the plant is all the better
for it. So it's kind of like a real win win situation. It's
ideal for it and ideal in Christmas containers. The plant itself is a very
very hardy plant. Oh yeah, hardy from USDA Zone two, Zone two
that is very cold, that's much colder than we need anywhere in the continental
US. I'm glad I brought that up. Do I get a Mini Moto
on the back? What was that? A momiji? A momiji on the
back for that one. No, I won't give you a momiji. But
yeah, hardy to USDA Zone two. So that's very very cold tolerant.
Now, as is often the case with very very hardy plants, there is
a trade off on heat tolerance, and it's only heat tolerant through about usdasone
seven, So anywhere much warmer than that it's really going to struggle for.
Fortunately, but that still covers a really wide, you know, portion of
the country. And you know you mentioned the hardiness and winter containers. That
means this is one of those plants that if you were to go to your
garden center and find some and you just want to put the plant in your
containers, it's going to survive just fine all through winter and then come spring
you'll be able to take it out of that container, replace it with some
daffodils, some fun spring stuff, and then go ahead and plant that in
your garden. So it's a really versatile plant, and you know you can
you can cut so much off it. Yeah, Stacy's talking about Arctic fire
yellow dog wood, and you can get the details at Gardening Simplified on air
dot com. I think the perfect plant in the landscape. And by the
way, Stacy with this plant love planting blue flowers in front of it,
maybe in peta or something like that. That's a nice idea because yeah,
nep er, you know, woul also be nice carry out to us.
Yeah, because that's going to be blooming and fall when they're going to start
taking on their color. It is dear resistant, always good news for you
and me, and I know a lot of our listeners as well, so
good dear resistance on this plant. Like I said, it does prefer wetter
soil, but you might find if you grow it in drier conditions like I
do, it just stays more contained. Lives just fine. But it's not
going to get as big and vigorous, and it's not really going to sucker,
because this is a plant that does sucker a bit. Now I have
found that mostly stays within sort of the plant body. It's not suckering you're
six feet away from the main parent. But all the better because if it
does grow where you don't want it to grow, you just take out those
stems and use them in your holiday to core and I don't consider it invasive
that way. It's not invasive. As a matter of fact. What you
can do is just accept compliments on its robust growth. Yes, and its
ability to withstand all these different conditions is why it is so ubiquitous in commercial
landscapes in residential landscapes. But it's really nice that it offers us this other
thing, this hand or homegrown backyard decoration. If you're not a vegetable gardener,
you can still put something homegrown on your holiday table. And I will
give you four seasons of interest that much hard to beat, that can't beat.
So that's arctic fire, yellow, red twig dogwood. I know that
sounds like a little bit of a contradiction of terms, but trust us,
it's amazing. It's a beautiful plant and you can find out more about it
at Gardeningsimplified on air dot com. We're going to take a little break.
When we come back, we're opening up that garden mail bag, so please
stay tuned. At proven Winner's color Choice, we've got a shrub for every
taste and every space. Whether you're looking for an easycare rose and unforgettable hydrangea
or something new and unique. You can be confident that the shrubs and the
white containers have been trialed and tested for your success. Look for them at
your local garden center. Greetening's Gardening friends, and welcome back to the Gardening
Simplified Show. Ricky pulled something out on the break here. Yeah, and
now we've got a rhody dundron branch and a tulip bulb accompanying us in the
studio. Here. I cut this rhododendron branch from my neighbor's rhododendron before coming
here, just joking off the back of mine. If you have rhododendrons,
just a public service note, and that is they should have big fat bugs
on them this time of the year. If they don't, you're doing something
wrong in my opinion, or the rhododendron is very unhappy and you're going to
need to take some steps to change up exactly. And then tulip bulbs.
This is what tulip bulbs should look like this time of the year. You
should have roots begin growing out of the basil plate at the base. So
you want roots starting to grow out of this tulip bulb and that's the point.
Plant them deep enough. You want to plant them deep enough in a
well drained soil so that prior to the ground freezing hard, they can develop
these roots. Then in spring when they start to grow, they're good to
go. Your tulips will be good. They got a little head start.
And just a reminder here we are it is Thanksgiving week. It is not
too late to plant bulbs. So I find that Thanksgiving weekend is always the
perfect time to plant any bulbs I have managed to accumulate over the previous weeks,
whether I've picked them up on sale, still plenty of times. So
definitely if you get the opportunity you're out there putting up Christmas lights or whatever,
don't forget you can still plant those bulbs well, as you know.
One of the ways we try to simplify gardening for you here on the Gardening
Simplified Show is by answering your garden questions. And you can reach us if
you have a garden question at help HLP at Gardeningsimplified on Air dot com,
or just visit Gardening Simplified on Air dot com. There's a contact form there
and we have some interesting questions today. Yeah, it's really good. Victoria
writes to us. I recently discovered your show on YouTube and I love it.
Thank you very much, Victoria. I've been reading about jumping worms and
I'm really concerned which you talk about invasive species and how to deal with them.
I'm new to gardening and I really want to create a welcoming environment for
a while life. But it seems like an uphill battle. Jumping worms.
Yeah, jumping worms. So thank you so much for your question, Victoria.
I want to say I can't talk about all invasive species in general,
that's a lot, but I can speak to, of course, jumping worms,
and I'll get to that. But I do want to talk about what
you said about it seems like an uphill battle, and I get that,
And you know, I think that gardening can sometimes start to feel like,
what's the point, What's the purpose? Why am I doing all of this?
You know, everything feels very discouraging. But you know, I think
that for myself, one thing that has really helped to change that from it
feeling like an uphill battle to feeling like an opportunity is to do a ton
of research. And the more that I learn about where I garden, the
plants that I garden with the challenges that I face. It. It's like
we talk about IPM Integrated Pest management a lot. By diving in and learning
more about the problems, you are arming yourself for that battle, that uphill
battle. I agree, research, but also make some mistakes. Yeah,
that's how you learn. I've learned by making mistakes. And in this case
with Victoria and these jumping worms which we have heard about, Yeah, I
mean it's like ominous. I don't blame her for being worried or concerned.
It's it's like, this is your final worming. Yeah, you're jumping worms.
And they sound really scary jumping worms, but they don't jump out of
the soil. They're not going to like, you know, freak out while
you're out there having your morning coffee. Now they inch their way in.
But I am I'm going to drop a little bomb on the audience here because
most people don't realize this, but in the northern part basically north of Pennsylvania
of North America, we do not have any native earthworms. They were all
destroyed by the last glacier about ten thousand years ago. They so we don't
see what you call global warming worming global. Yes, so, so ten
thousand years ago, all of our native earthworms went extinct, and all of
the earthworms that you know, we've grown up seeing and learning about in our
backyards if you live basically again north of Pennsylvania, are invasive species that came
in with you know, early settlers, colonists bringing in food. They came
in on the ships. And it kind of turns this whole notion that you
know, we've been hearing since we were kids about earthworms are so good and
the more earthworms in your soil, the better your soil is. When in
fact we are talking whether it's a jumping worm or your nightcrawlers or whatever worm
you are seeing in your backyard, those are actually introduced and sometimes, as
in the case of jumping worms, invasive species post glacier worms. Yes,
th to global worming. Okay, yeah, so the glacier wiped them all
out. They didn't come back, and now we have all of these invaders.
So now to get to the so basically in terms of the garden,
in terms of residential environments, having earthworms is not really a problem. It's
okay, they do in fact, you know, break stuff down in the
soil and add more organic matter. They do have some benefit, but in
the forests and in natural areas it can be quite a different situation. They
cycle through nutrients more quickly, so that can make it more difficult for certain
native plants who have very close symbiotic relationships with the soil to thrive. It
changes the soil chemistry, it changes the texture. It has caused problems for
things like salamanders, one of my personal favorite creatures and something I always look
forward to seeing in spring birds. It causes all sorts of problems. And
so again we're looking at a difference between home and nature, so it is
important to understand what you're dealing with. And so we'll move on to the
jumping worms, which yes, or a problem in backyards, but are actually
unfortunately found in natural areas as well. So they're a bit smaller than probably
most of our worms that we commonly encounter when we're gardening, and they're called
jumping worms because they move with like a really vigorous, snakelike movement. If
they're disturbed, they're aggressive, they're aggressively wormy, and they there's a couple
of other characteristics that you can look for, and I will post some links
of course at Gardening Simplified on air dot com. But this is what I
mean when when I say you have to research and arm yourself with the knowledge
of what you're facing so that you know you know. Of course, if
you're concerned you've heard about jumping worms, then you need to look up pictures
of them and know what to look for, so that if you do have
them in your garden and you're out there next spring digging, then you know
what you're dealing with, and that helps you feel more in control of the
situation and you know how you're resolving it. Essentially, you have to be
a bookworm. You have to be an internet worm. Good luck probably finding
a lot of information about jumping worms and books these days. So it's a
good idea to be able to recognize them so you can tell if they're a
problem. And they are pretty much entrenched across the Midwest right now as well
as through the south, Northeast and southeast as well. Now if you know
you have them, you can There aren't that many control methods, and that's
what Victoria was asking, is like, how do I control these if they're
in my yard? There aren't really very many things you can do. One
thing you can do if you know that you have jumping worms is you can
make a mixture of a gallon of water and a third of a cup,
which is a lot of freshly ground mustard seed. And you can get mustard
seed pretty inexpensively at a lot of like Indian groceries. So you don't have
to go and get that little thing at you know, the grocery store that
costs seven dollars. You can get something less expensive. Grind that up,
mix it together, pour that into the area, and you'll know you have
jumping worms. It has like a coffee ground. They give your soil of
coffee grounds like texture that will cause them all to come to the surface.
You can scrape them right up and toss them out. Now you only want
to do this, however, during the growing season, so basically like late
spring through early fall, because jumping worm adults don't actually survive our winter.
They're an annual worm. Oh my, that's heart that's heartworming, right,
So the adults all die, but they leave their cocoons in the soil and
then they hatch out in spring and so it goes on. They actually do
not have to mate to have cocoons, a viable youth, viable young worms.
It's just weird. Yeah, that's it's not uncommon. Aphians do that
as well. It's called parthenogenesis. And I actually just read something that a
fish and an aquarium just gave birth through parthenogenesis too. So it's a wild
world out there. But the other thing that you should know if you know
that you have jumping worms is do not give plants to your friends. And
I know that's kind of a heartbreak. That's something that we gardeners love to
do, is to share our plants. But anytime of the year you could
have those cocoons in there. They're almost impossible to tell because they're soil colored.
And so until the jumping worm issue is resolved, or you know that
your friend also has jumping worms and you're not moving anything from one place to
another, that would be another recommendation I would have for if you have jumping
worms. Wow, do the birds like them? I'm going to hope that
the birds like them. I mean, this time of the year, I'll
till leaves into the soil and then next spring there's all kinds of earth worms
and I just love it. I think it's great for my soil. But
the birds love the worms. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna assume they'd
eat jumping worms. I'm sure they would eat jumping worms if they can get
them. But you know, they probably are going to go burrow down into
the soil and not be you know, on top, unless it's one of
those after arrain situations when all the worms come out. So that's probably more
than any of you wanted to hear about jumping worms. But I thought it
was actually quite interesting if you want more resources or all the information that I
just shared, Gardenings Simplified on air. Now we have to take a little
break. When we come back, we've got a special guest for branching news.
You aren't going to want to miss that. Sub Stay tuned. The
Gardening Simplified Show is brought to you by Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our
award winning flowering shrubs in evergreens have been trialed and tested for your success so
you enjoy more beauty and less work. Look for Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs
and the distinctive white container at your local garden center. Welcome back to the
Gardening Simplified Show. It's time for branching news. No, it's not breaking
news, but we don't make this stuff up. And today I'm excited we
get an opportunity to talk to Lisa Rose. Lisa is an herbalist, a
forager, an urban farmer, a writer with a background in anthropology and a
professional focus on community health. She's gathered her food, farming and wild plant
knowledge for many people and many different places, all across the world. I
guess you could call it a delicious journey. Lisa's written three books. I
have read some of them, one of them Midwest Foraging, another one Midwest
Medicinal Plants, and now Urban Foraging, which Stacy I'm very interested in getting
into because having spent time in places like New York City or whatever, I'm
not quite sure how you're going to forage for food, but I guess Lisa
is going to let us know. Lisa, Welcome to the Gardening Simplified Show.
Rick, It is so lovely to be reunited. Excited to be here.
I have known Lisa for a number of years. She was on a
previous program with me Stacy, and I remember one time I caught a cold
and Lisa talked to me out of Vick's vapo rub. She just told me
how to get some needles off a pine tree and steam or boil them.
And I tried it and it worked, and it cleared my sinuses, and
I was hooked on this whole thing. You know, Plants, as we
know, are magical. They have a whole variety of values. They bring
to the world, not just for our ecosystems, but for help and for
beauty. So I'm lucky to have helped you a little bit with the cold,
and from there a flot our friendship and blossoms. I guess you could
say you got it. Now teach me eth no botany. What is eth
no botany is a really fancy academic word for simply the study of how humans
have used and worked with plants across times and across states. And so for
me, my love of plants came, you know, when I was very
young, being out in the garden with my mom. We're from Plint,
originally moved over to the west side of the state. It was lucky enough
to be, you know, just a stone's throw from Lake Michigan. And
so, you know, plants of all and just the natural world has always
been a strong part of my life. And from that point of curiosity,
I've always been interested in how people across the world have related to to the
natural spaces around them, the botany, the plants around them for food and
medicine, So not just current day people like me and you, but also
past, past cultures and past uh, past histories and past you know,
are past as a species for for thousands of years. So that's my damn
well, Lisa so Ethnobotany is essentially the relationship or the interrelations between people and
plants, which is something we talk about often here on The Gardening Simplified Show.
At the core of it, that's, you know, that really is
what it is. And I think that I'm never without a day that I
don't find and learn something new about a different a different way. Somebody relates
to plants a different way, a culture uses plants and works with plants,
or even understands plants. So that's, like I said, at the center
of my work in yours as well. So in your most recent book,
Urban Foraging, you teach us that for city dwellers, finding ingredients for dinner
may be as easy as stepping outside into the green way. Give us some
examples on that, how do I do that in New York City or Lincoln,
Nebraska, or Los Angeles? How do we do that? Yeah?
Well, urban foraging really is the next step and continuation of the work that
you've known me to be, you know, to teach and to bring you
know, to communities into people that you step outside and you are in nature.
Nature is all around this. You don't have to go to a national
park or to you know, an exotic locale to make that immediate connection with
nature. And so urban foraging really is a part is two folds to help
bring and inspire people outside of their urban skates. If you are in New
York City. You know, for the past couple of years, my office
had been in New York City, so I was co located, getting outside
with with the my neighborhood around my office and connecting people with with plants and
their their area to just say, look, just open your eyes and start
to understand that nature is around us. Now, there's a second half to
that. It's understanding plant ecosystems, watersheds contamination that we frequently have in our
cities. So that's the other half of how do we understand the current state
of our landscapes? How can we really take steps to bring help back into
our city scapes. And so it's this real treat us, I think in
my own way to inspire people to make that connection that plants are outside your
doorsteps in you know, outside towards central parks. Can central parks be your
green grocer? Can you be gathering everything for a meal? Not only is
that not you know, feasible from a plant you be perspective, it would
be unethical, right or from a volume perspective. So it's more of a
jumping off place to say, hey, we are connected to nature and in
our cities, especially where there's some of the most I want to say the
word, you know, degraded lands, abused lands, and certainly urban communities
that we feel left behind and our rest felt communities. It's really also a
story of hope that we can reconnect to the land that's outside our door and
reconnect to the source of our health and really have that be a hope and
a way forward. Stacy, you lived for some time in New York City.
Did cross your mind to go out there and do some urban foraging?
I mean I didn't, but I definitely I mean as someone who loves and
you know, has some understanding of plants. You know, there were certainly
times where I would walk by and something and just say, oh, you
know what about people don't realize that's edible or you know, there's so many
things that people just think of as weeds that are actually pretty choice edibles.
And it doesn't have to be as urban as New York City. I mean,
certainly here in West Michigan we have a lot of those that we could
get. And you know, one of the things I'm really interested in,
Lisa, is how urban foraging can help to in some small way mitigate the
spread of invasive plants, because so much of it is things like harvesting fruit
from eli agnes that helps to prevent the spread. Yeah, well, I
think that that's it's a reprise. So one. I'm glad that you can
make that connection, have it, you know, as a New York City
dweller, to be able to see, you know, see the potential and
that you know that those those edible plants and those plants allies or around us
in the city. I think when we look at I think what it gives
us a jumping off place to have a conversation of what is a healthy ecosystem.
Right, it's bigger than invasive species. It says, okay, what
do we really need here to have a system that has a healthy watershed,
a healthy you know, how do we look at the built environment in general?
What are we you know, just I think and at that's at the
planning level perhaps, But then as a community gardener, right, what can
I do with outside my windows, windowsills to affect pollinators, to plant container
gardens? If I have a community garden space, you know, just down
the street or within my block and my neighborhood association, how can we consider
you know, working with the wild plants. And then also maybe take it
one step further to add you know, I think of it as how do
we add versus combat? Right? Because when we add and have this this
regenerative, this generative approach to design, it has I feel a compounding effect
of in terms of, you know, how do we add fruit trees into
the space, or how do we consider like looking at the land where do
we have the basis plants? What have we planted previously that might not be
suited for you know, in terms of the soil or if it's you know,
uh they you know, if we talk about autum olives that you mentioned.
How do we how do we eat the fruit or recognize that that is
a way of managing our plant community? Right? So I think it's it's
again that it's it's sprout the conversation to say, okay, what how do
we really look deeply at what a healthy ecosystem can be and then add those
things in, right, and then that will just start like a healthy compost
pile that requires the layers and the integration and the turning and getting things to
the right temperature. It's we've all heard of slow food in my world.
It's like I start to think of it that is slow gardening. Right.
How do we start to really slow things down and start to understand by first
paying attention? Right, because that's one of our biggest abilities as gardeners to
pay attention naturalists, you know, we read the landscape. How do we
start to get outside again? Before you gather anything and put it in your
mouth, you need to know what it is, right, all right,
So this is not just a philosophical, you know, discussion, This is
really also prat text and quite practical. You know, you get outside your
front door, you need to know where you are you need to be able
to understand, you know what, the basics of botany and then also not
to over it like we started with the word ethnobotany. I really feel that
foraging and community gardening democratizes plant knowledge. Right, this is not just a
way this is this is this is a way humans have lived as long as
we've been on the planet. Right. That's that's a great point, it
really is. And and Lisa, following you through the years and again we're
talking to Lisa Rose. Uh. Two beautiful books that I have read,
Midwest Foraging and Midwest Medicinal Plants now Lisa's new book Urban Foraging, and uh,
Lisa along the lines of where you were going with that. You know,
I have found from following you reading your books that many of these plants
that were foraging for in society we consider to be wheat. It's like,
take me to your weader dandelions, right or one that one that totally gets
me that I cannot handle is nettles are oh, can't handle it. I
got you there. I heard, I saw where you were going. I
mean, are these stinging nettles, Lisa? And we're going to consume them?
You know? And I think that you hit on it. It's like,
these are the great secrets of health, hiding in plans right, right,
and not only hiding in plain sight. But they've been, you know,
they've been, they've been. They're the dastardly demons in our gardens.
When in the actuality they each have, say, roles in the soils.
Right, there's a reason they're there, good, bad or otherwise. Right.
And then also they have tremendous health benefits. And you know, you
mentioned the stinging nettles, very high in plant protein. Everybody knows nettles,
especially if your kid, brother or sister pushed you off your bike into the
ditch, you know, along along the roadside, right, you've fallen in
them and you've gotten to you know. And they're distributed on different species across
all of the United North America, United States and into Europe. But historically,
and they nettles have been used as a cordage to make you know,
to make roapes make spread. And it's highly nutritious, high end plant proteins
high and magnesium high, in calcium high. You know, it's it really
puts spinage to shame. If you start to look at the nutritional value side
by side, and so again I all we talked at the beginning. To
understand the landscape, you need to gather nettles from a place that has a
clean water source. Generally you'll find them in you know, a drainage ditch
area or you know, alongside a creek or a stream bed. But you
really need to have that base knowledge to say, okay, what's the water
source? Can I you know, can I harvest these netles? And how
to make those really good decisions that once upon a time used to be.
You know, how we fed our families during the war, during the Second
War, netles huge staples in France and into Italy and Germany when people had
nothing else to eat because of food shortages. Right, So these these are
really it seems trendy and kind of new and even new age in some ways
when you talk about herbal medicine. But again the ethnobotanist in me says,
look, these these plants have had a history and a history of use with
humans, a relationship with humans across time and across space. How can we
refine those traditions and bring them into our lives. And honestly, it's not
just about the plate of salads that you might get you know, from gathering
your dandelions or violets, but you get I think, with a more deep
emotional connection to nourishing yourself. And again just that pride. You know,
when you watch kids pick tomatoes off off of a you know, tomato vine
that they've grown in their own gardens. The same happens, you know,
when you watch kids pick dandelion leaves and dress their salads with you know,
dandelion flowers and violet flowers, or steam nettles, or have fun banging each
other up with nettle branches in the fields. You know, I guess right,
well, watched with my kids with kids in the school gardens and whatnot.
There's something about it too that reminds us how to be playful right outside.
In our first segment, Lisa, we did talk about vegetables and we
talked about the bitter nature of some vegetables and why kids, many kids have
difficulty eating vegetables. Cake, ice cream, that type of thing are synonymous
with good times and parties and that sort of thing. But how do we
get them to eat their vegetables? And of course part of it, yes,
is education, education, and looking at something in a different light.
Yeah, And I love that you bring that up because it is about exposure.
You know, our standard American diet has two flavors you mentioned, one
which is sweet and the other is salty. Now, I love a glazed
doughnut like the next girl. Okay, And I love, you know,
my salt and vinegar potato chips. But I also know that there my body
knows because I can recognize this because I know when I need to have my
bitter salad greens, my end dies, my ridipo right, my dandalion leaves.
In some cases, I need to add you know, some doc you
know, some medicinal bitter greens to my diet of my stomach s upset.
And I think that our bodies know how to use all five flavors. It's
just a matter of having exposure and then integrating that into our day to day
diet. And we've come so far from that using those wild plants and having
such overprocessed salty food that we just don't know how to go forward right with
with those new flavors. Well, speaking of going forward, so what is
your advice, aside from getting your book for someone who wants to start getting
into foraging, you know, and understanding that that first step, you know,
identifying what you are seeing is the hardest in many ways to start to
acquire, you know, that breadth of knowledge. What's your advice for someone
to kind of get, you know, their first foray into foraging. So
for anybody interested in starting out as a beginner, all of my books,
all my forging field guides really provide a methodology and a framework to to thinking
about how to begin foraging right in a very easy and accessible way. First
and foremost, I always love people to start with stepping outside their front door
and really just take a walk, choose a path forward. Perhaps it's around
the block, perhaps it's down the street and back. Perhaps it's you know,
to your children's school. If you drop kids off at school, maybe
you walk around the school the school yard and start bring along a paper and
pen, and start to notice what the landscape is. If you're if you're
a gardener, you're actually even one step ahead because you already have a space
that grows plants that can that invariably may already have wild plants in them that
we might qualify as weeds. Right, So there's this noticing practice that has
is first and foremost important to start to practice and to adopt as a forger.
Of course, as a gardener, you know the importance of also noticing
seasonal patterns, right, and changes in the landscape across the year. So
having this this new way of looking at the world, you'll start to observe
and notice what grows when if you start to take the same route over and
over again as a very you know, I think of a farmer who walks
their field every day, right, They know every inch of that land in
side and out forward, backward and from winter until the next winter. Right.
So just to start this as a practice to get to know the land
that you're at. And one of those considerations then also is to understand,
okay, how has this land been used over time? So something I've talked
about is safety. Right, getting to know the historical use of land is
quite important, regardless of rural, suburban or urban landscapes. Right, there
are content, there are things to be careful of, everything from railroad tracks
to easements to super fun sites you know, gas stations right, Just all
again, being a girl from Flint, these are things that are in my
awareness all the time. And it doesn't mean that you can't go ahead and
you practice what you preach. Lisa, because Stacey, Lisa and I met
a number of years ago as runners, and I would in in races that
she was more interested in veering off into the brush because she spotted something then
uh and eventually you'd get to the finish line. So you even did foraging
while we were out there running, yep. I you know, admittedly I
have been told I'd be much faster if I didn't snack and forage along the
way. But you know, I am just somebody that's quite practical and if
I'm gonna go out for twenty miles, I may as well put acorns in
my pocket sometimes my running bra. You know, I just not on crab
apples. You know, you know again, you gotta you gotta, you
gotta use your resources strategically, right and you know I think that again though,
being mindful of where together is really again that crucial step, right,
and it's it then comes down to logic and common sense. Once you start
to know your plants, you know, if they're crab apples in the city
or you know, off for those that are familiar with Grand Rapids, let's
say, you know, off of off of the trails over in some of
the more industrial areas. I'll say, like let's say Chicago Drive. You
know, if I can't across an old wild apple tree, I'd most likely
would snack on it. I'm not saying anybody else if they're not comfortable with
that should But if it was a root, maybe like the yellow duck in
that same you know, let's say, same blighted field out on Chicago Drive
or Nettles, I might choose to not harvest there if I didn't need to
or snack, you know, from plants in that same same blighted field,
because I understand, you know, if a plant takes up minerals and we
eat it for its minerals, like let's say spinach nettles, those same plants
will have a high uptake of things like lead, So have a high uptake
of things like thee So that's a little different from the fruit parts of a
tree. Right. So these are these as you start to become aware and
think about those plant parts that are edible. Of course, my biggest rule
is don't put anything in your mouth that you don't know what it is,
right, That's what we teach kids. That doesn't work, and it doesn't
always work exactly. We're talking to Lisa Rose again. Three beautiful books,
Midwest Foraging, Midwest Medicinal Plants, and now Urban Foraging. Lisa, we
have just a moment left here. I wanted to ask you for our listeners
and our viewers with urban foraging, Can you give us three plants in the
city that maybe are tops on the list for you, and one of them
cannot be nettles or dandelions. So top three in urban foraging. Okay,
top three in urban foraging. That's that's easy, but but difficult. So
the first one is going to be mulberry. Across North America. The mulberry,
which is not native to uh to the United States, it's to North
America, is all over our urban scapes and the fruit is amazing in June.
It's one of my favorite first early summer berries to harvest. I make
jam, I make ties, love Love love. The mulberries super easy to
identify. Once you can identify it, it's not easy. It's not confusable
with you know, a later a later berry like pulp or buckthorn berries.
Right, So, mulberry is one of my fave O savea fay numbers along
with what's number two is one of my yes. Dinko has been commonly used
well, it's for urban environments, very tolerance of growing conditions. It grows
and has been planted by landscape architects all over many, many, many cities.
And not only can the fruits be used, the nuts of the fruits
when they're available, but also the leaves for teas. And right now in
late fall is a wonderful time to gather the leaves of the ginko. Then
my third one is acorns from the oak tree. And you know we've got
a lot of disease threatening our oak trees across North America. They the acorns
have provided humans nutritious plant carbohydrates for thousands of years. It's one of my
I like to call it a gateway foraging herb. When you come to my
house and it's a football game on, I'll set the bowl of acorns down.
You'll probably be asked to help shell the acorns while I maybe make up
a forage cocktail for game day. And by far, the oak trees is
near and dear to me is one of my favorite trees and provider of food
in our landscape. I got to ask you real quickly foraged cocktail. Oh
yes, and if you don't know my ability to forage plants for cocktails,
we might want to come back for a new episode. Let's do that.
Let's do that. I want to hear about these foraged cocktails. Her name
is Lisa Rose. Three beautiful books, Midwest Foraging, Midwest Medicinal Plants,
and now Urban Foraging. Lisa, it's always a treat to talk to you
and all the best. And yeah, I'd like to take you up on
that. Let's talk about cocktail foraging, sometimes foraging in person, because it's
been way too long, mister Weiss, So I look forward to seeing you
soon. Sounds great. Thanks so much, Lisa, Thanks Lisa, Thank
you both. I appreciate you and your love for plants. Well, you
know, I don't know if there's a much better way to spend the next
couple months of the off season then learning about foraging so when everything starts growing
again, you're ready to go. So that's what I'm going to do.
And we thank you for listening. Thank you, Rick, thanks Adriana,
of course, thanks to our guest Lisa, and thank you all for listening.
We hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving and a wonderful week ahead.