WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:34.920 Welcome to UFO Think Tank Craigier with your host Alejandro Rohan. Hello, my 2 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:42.399 friends, Hello, my friend. Hello, that's a Neil Diamond for you. 3 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:47.320 This is a Lejandro Rojas, your host of UFO Think Tank, and 4 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:53.280 we have a very special show today. As you know, the big news 5 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:58.640 out there is this gentleman who works worked for we'll talk about this controversy, 6 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:04.560 this who is claiming that he had something to do well, that he knows 7 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:11.280 all about extraterrestrials, that Roswell was real. He saw a box at the 8 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:17.760 CIA which led him to believe this. He does not give details what was 9 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:25.280 in the box. However, he does say that what he saw confirmed his 10 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:30.319 belief that it was an extraterrestrial ship that crashed in Roswell near Roswell in nineteen 11 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:37.400 forty seven, and that extraterrestrial bodies were recovered. Terribly interesting news. And 12 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:42.280 I'm sure, as you can imagine, the UFO world is in a bur 13 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:46.719 er and so is the media world. In fact, mister Lee Spiegel, 14 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.280 who we had on the show a couple of weeks ago, wrote a story 15 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.400 about this that has taken off coast to coast had him on first. But 16 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:57.120 Lee saw this coast to coast or heard it, wrote a story, and 17 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:01.200 all of a sudden, you know, the Sun and the Telegraph over in 18 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:07.120 the UK is writing about Lee Spiegel's story. So is MSNBC and Fox News 19 00:02:07.800 --> 00:02:13.360 and all the big guys out here are covering this story. So they reprinted 20 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:17.840 Lee Spiegel's story and that's about as far as they've gone. Now. Chase 21 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.759 is the name of the CIA A officer. He is talking about this because 22 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.879 he has written a book about Roswell. He says, it's fiction and it's 23 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:36.400 kind of about the CIA guy going and finding in this Roswell spacecraft or something 24 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.000 like that. I haven't read the book. Hopefully I can get him on 25 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:42.560 the show and we can talk about the book, because I'd like to hear 26 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:47.599 more about the book. And so he had this veddit in other words, 27 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:51.319 he had the CIA people look at it. And he's selling the book and 28 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.840 he's out there talking about the book, and he throws in this little bit 29 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:58.319 that you know what, I actually know Roswell was real from when I saw 30 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.759 at the CIA. So you can imagine there's a lot of speculation about why 31 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:07.240 he said what he said. Was it just to sell books? That's pretty 32 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:14.199 much the ending conclusion on all of these mainstream media stories that, of course, 33 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.000 the guy's selling a book, so he probably said this just to sell 34 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:20.319 the book. End of story, and they're moving on. But there are 35 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:24.000 a lot of other possibilities. Of course, a more conspiratorial idea, which 36 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:30.840 is kind of out there, I'm gonna admit, is that the CIA sanctioned 37 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:35.439 mister Change Brandon to say this, and that this is some sort of CIA 38 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:42.800 plan to fool the public or to slowly revealed information. Who knows. Now. 39 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:47.639 This point of view is sort of championed by Grant Cameron, who's on 40 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:53.159 the show today. So we've got Lespiegle, who broke the story. Lee 41 00:03:53.240 --> 00:04:00.400 has since kept in touch with Chase and he actually has had the most communication 42 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.759 with Chase branded out of any media people out there. They actually got to 43 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:08.840 meet recently. So we're going to talk to Lee Spiegel about his story and 44 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:14.439 all of his conversations with Chase Brandon to clarify all of those things. We're 45 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:17.959 going to have Grant Cameron to talk about his perspective because Grant Cameron, as 46 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.439 you all know, we've had him on the show a couple of times, 47 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:25.879 one of my favorite researchers has done a lot of research into the government and 48 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.839 UFO, so he has a lot of the background to make his case that 49 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:35.199 this is not an abnormal type of thing if the CIA was involved. He 50 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:45.800 also with somebody's like Grant I'm sorry, Robbie Graham from the UK, from 51 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:50.800 Saucer Smurr. They got together and they wrote it an email to the CIA 52 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:55.800 and about Chase and they responded and said, well, we looked for the 53 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:59.759 box. We didn't really find anything we can either. Well, they didn't 54 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:01.920 say that tonight, are confirming, didn't I Essentially they said that, in 55 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.879 other words, Chase his case, So they didn't really disparage case, but 56 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:11.600 they didn't Chase, but they didn't confirm what he had to say either. 57 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:16.319 So this is all the background and what's going on here. The other person 58 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:20.959 we've got on the show is the man who put Roswell on the map, 59 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:26.879 so to speak, and that is Stanton Friedman. And this is the man 60 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:32.160 who rediscovered Roswell and essentially made Roswell famous. Of course, one of the 61 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:36.920 most famous incidents. If you say Roswell to somebody in Japan, they're gonna 62 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:43.160 know you're talking about aliens crashing in the desert, and that's all because of 63 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.920 the work of Stanton Friedman. So we have these three very special people on 64 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:51.040 the show. I couldn't think of three better people to have together to talk 65 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:56.040 about this topic. And so that's what we've got going on on the show. 66 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.480 We actually talked last night, so I'm really excited about it. Accidentally, 67 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:04.240 it's two Americans, Lee and I and two Canadians. We're talking about 68 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:10.839 the CIA with Canadians. I was joking that that's because the c in CIA 69 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:15.399 that used to be a Canadian, the Canadian Intelligence Agency, and they moved 70 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:19.120 over to America. We stole them in Project paper Clip. That's joke. 71 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:24.920 That's not true, but I thought it was cute to say it anyway. 72 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.480 So we have a tremendous show and some really interesting stuff coming up in just 73 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:32.480 a few minutes. Prior to that, I want to do a little bit 74 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.920 of business before moving on to some news, and I just want to say 75 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:44.199 as far as the Cosmic Exploration Conference, which I've talked about going on here 76 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:49.560 soon with this extraordinary list of speakers, I mean, we have, you 77 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:54.120 know, here's the deal, and I want to tell people, you know, 78 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:59.079 I have been part of a lot of conferences and a lot of people 79 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:00.800 come up to me, listen to the radio show and say, you know, 80 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.399 Alejandro, you talked about how great this conference was going to be, 81 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:10.600 but I see a lot of unsubstantiated stuff. None of these speakers really have 82 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:15.360 much credibility. There's a few, but not many. You know. I 83 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.160 was hoping for a higher standard for this conference. And I tell them, 84 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:25.000 you know, I understand that, and I like everybody in this field, 85 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:28.480 that what everybody does. But I do feel there needs to be a space 86 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:33.160 for the highly credible stuff. And you know, there are scientists we keep 87 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:36.720 talking about scientists are interested in this field. Well let's give them a space 88 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.439 to talk, you know, Let's give them somewhere where they can be amongst 89 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:44.480 peers to talk seriously about this topic. And that's what I've done with the 90 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:48.920 Cosmic Exploration Conference. If you're all wondering, I did not seek this. 91 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:55.720 I was looking for a good mix of skeptics and people who are convinced that 92 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:00.040 there is something to the UFO phenomena. When I put this together, it 93 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:07.199 turned out to my surprise that actually I think we only have maybe two skeptics 94 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.439 on the list, although their topics are extremely interesting and they're open minded, 95 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:18.199 skeptical people. Otherwise, everybody else, all the other nine speakers on this 96 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.120 list, are convinced that there's really something to this phenomena. We have Albert 97 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:26.040 Harrison. This is really exciting one of the latest additions because he is on 98 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:33.240 the board or he's a SETI member. He is a professor emeritus of the 99 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:39.080 University of California in Santa Barbara, actually, which is important because it's the 100 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.960 Berkeley branch of the University of California that runs SETI, and they have they're 101 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:46.480 just some of the cutting edge on all of this stuff. So he's in 102 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:52.720 psychology and the psychology of space and all of that. Ben McGee, who 103 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:56.519 you've seen on Chasing UFOs, he's going to be there. I became buddies 104 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:00.840 with him when I got to be on the show. In fact, they're 105 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:07.600 going to air this Friday, so the next episode of Chasing UFOs you will 106 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.080 see me out on a SkyWatch with him. So we'll see how this goes. 107 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.039 Hopefully it goes well. But he's a really interesting guy. He really 108 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.600 is open minded, even though he's seen as kind of a naysayer, and 109 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:22.600 at this conference he's going to talk about some of the convincing stuff that he 110 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:24.879 did see. So he is very open minded to all of this. So 111 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.519 we've got George Knapp, who discovered area fifty one, you know, he 112 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.720 put that on the map. Jeffrey Bennett as an astronomer. John Alexander, 113 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:39.720 an Army colonel who did an investigation behind UFOs while he was in the Army. 114 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:43.559 John Peterson, this guy is a founder of a think tank, the 115 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:48.120 Arlington Institute, who works with defense and all of this. He's also wants 116 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:54.240 to talk about fairly esoteric sort of topic, you know, the importance of 117 00:09:54.320 --> 00:10:00.840 this discovery of extraterrestrial life and what he feels the impact will be on society 118 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:05.440 when this happened happens, of which he's in no doubt it will happen. 119 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.639 A couple more media people. We've got Li Spiegel who are going to hear 120 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:11.519 in a minute. Leslie Keen, who wrote the national best selling book UFOs. 121 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:16.279 Generals, pilots and government officials go on the record. Another professor of 122 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:22.200 sociology from Eastern Michigan, and he has a great topic. He wants to 123 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.399 talk about why do people react the way they do to anomalous phenomena. Why 124 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:31.159 does the public kind of you know, they get weird about it, as 125 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.840 we know they can get irrational. Why do they do this? Ted Peters 126 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.240 who wants to talk about why astrobiology and scientists are afraid of researching UFOs and 127 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:50.320 also that the true impact of discovery of civilizations out there off planet and that 128 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:54.480 the impact they'll have on religion. He did a study on this which is 129 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.720 extremely interesting. He's also a professor. And then this is really exciting. 130 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:03.879 Major General Wilfred Debrower, he's retired with the Belgian Air Force, I mean, 131 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:09.360 for goodness sakes, at general. He's got his own presentation on the 132 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:18.320 extensive and incredible investigation. Really, this is one of the most amazing investigations 133 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.879 by a military into a wave of UFO sightings by very credible people. And 134 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:28.399 these were the triangular UFOs in Belgium in the nineties, so really important stuff. 135 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:33.080 I put this together because you, my listeners and others were asking for 136 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:37.080 something like this, and I myself craved for something like this to happen. 137 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.840 Now I need people to register as soon as possible, and I keep telling 138 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.120 you my listeners that I love you, and you're probably like, okay, 139 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:48.120 buddy, you're allots to talk. Prove it, and so I will prove 140 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:50.759 it. Here's what I'm going to do till the end of July for the 141 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.840 next couple of weeks, because I really want you to come, and I 142 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:58.159 hope money isn't an issue. I really am and I'm not kidding. I've 143 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.840 got this thing. It's very low and if you know of other conferences you'll 144 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.080 know that's true. Even though this is at a very fancy place, so 145 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.879 Tropic Cana in Las Vegas. This is going to be a lot of fun 146 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:13.960 right in the middle of the strip in Las Vegas. But for radio listeners 147 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.639 until the into July, I'm gonna give twenty five percent off. So when 148 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:26.200 you go to register for the conference, use the code UTT so radio listeners 149 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:31.320 in order to get twenty five percent off. If you go to the dinner, 150 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:35.360 then I mean you are practically paying for dinner and getting everything else for 151 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:45.519 free. But if you go register, use the code UTT simply UTT all 152 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.960 uppercase. Actually I don't know if it's case sensitive, but just to be 153 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:52.440 sure, put it in all uppercase UTT and you'll get twenty five percent off, 154 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:58.519 So put that code in there when you are registering for the conference. 155 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.759 So I want to get to some news before we're done. Thank you very 156 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.320 much for that. Also, oh and this weekend, I do want to 157 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:07.159 mention too, if you're in the California area, if you're in the La 158 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:13.279 Orange County area, check out Move On LA or Orange County Move On because 159 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.120 they do have a benefit going on for doctor Roger Lear. Some of you 160 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:22.440 know his work. He alleges he believes that he's able to extract or has 161 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:30.200 been extracting a few implants from people who believe they've been abducted, and that 162 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.519 he thinks there's really something unusual to these things. Now, he was a 163 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:35.039 skeptic when he went to do this. When they asked him to do this, 164 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.399 he said, yeah, you know, I'll do it, but just 165 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.559 to get these people on my back off my back and improve that this is 166 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.679 just a rock or something. But when he removed this first implant in nineteen 167 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.039 ninety five, he thought, wow, this is really strange. It has 168 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.960 a membrane that seems to help this thing from being rejected by the body, 169 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.840 and the metals are very peculiar. So since then, he's done this over 170 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:03.159 a dozen more times, or at least. He's a pediatrist, so he 171 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:07.080 only can do surgery like on the foot, but he has worked with other 172 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:13.639 surgeons to remove alleged implants out of other parts of the body. So he 173 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.879 has come across some financial issues, I guess, and you can go to 174 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:24.519 move On LA or Orange County move On website and find out about a benefit 175 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.159 they're going to hold for him to help him out with these medical bills that 176 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.840 came up recently, and that's going on this weekend, so they're gonna have 177 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.519 one in the LA area one in the Orange County area. They got so 178 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.320 many members out there that they got to break it up, so pretty cool. 179 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.279 And plus they're great guys. My buddy's out there, Steve Murrillo, 180 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:48.759 Jan Harzan run those groups and they're really great guys. And Ryan are Robert 181 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.039 Wood, you know, one of the old timers there at Moufon and a 182 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:58.399 great guy. The big news, however, for this week, and the 183 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.159 other big story is is the uk X file. So the UK, as 184 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.759 we've talked about, has periodically been releasing UFO files. The big story from 185 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:13.120 the files they just released this week is kind of a big report that was 186 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:18.120 done for Tony Blair on UFOs and should we release this stuff and what's really 187 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:22.240 going on, And essentially the people at the UFO desk, because the UK 188 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:28.320 did have an official UFO desk officer, gave some advice and essentially he said, 189 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:33.519 we don't know what's going on. Many of these things are misidentified, 190 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.720 but we keep an open mind that it's entirely possible that these things could be 191 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:43.240 of extraterrestral origin. So he didn't really say much except for that we don't 192 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:48.080 know, We don't approve for sure one way or the other. But it's 193 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:52.320 still very interesting. There are other debates that you can see there. You 194 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.720 know, one guy in the House of Lords saying, you know, our 195 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.720 planet is so insignificant. They had probably only come here maybe once every thousand 196 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.279 years. So maybe we're more significant than that, maybe not, who knows. 197 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:10.840 Regardless, that's pretty much just speculation, and so these files are interesting 198 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.639 in that way, at least in that there were people in the military or 199 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.360 at least in the government who was arguing, we're arguing that, you know, 200 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.399 we really should investigate UFOs. There's something here and we shouldn't lend a 201 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:29.159 blind eye to it. Eventually, Tony Blair did have a lot to do 202 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:34.679 with the freedom of information requests out there, and according to the Telegraph, 203 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:40.440 Tony Blair at one point said it was one of his biggest mistakes the Freedom 204 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.879 of Information Act out there, which is unfortunate. You know, he thought, 205 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.440 he thinks, I guess he should have been more dutiful at keeping those 206 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:56.919 files closed. One other interesting story that came out today is the UFOs being 207 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.120 seen at China's Phoenix Mountain. You may remember Nick's Mountain. There is a 208 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:07.160 big observatory there. There was a scientist there who really believes in UFOs and 209 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:12.559 talks about UFOs often. There were some UFO scene in the area, and 210 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:17.119 supposedly China was supposed to look into those and give a report, of which 211 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:22.160 they never really did. But there have been some more sightings. There's lots 212 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.079 of pictures of bugs that were placed out here, but you know, those 213 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.119 are obviously bugs. But there were some more interesting reports, such as some 214 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:36.599 gentlemen who saw a large black object shaped like an eagle. They said hovered 215 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:41.680 for a while before it zoomed off into the sky. So that sounds more 216 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:47.759 like a traditional UFO signing or some of the more more sterious types. So 217 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.839 very interesting stuff in the news today. Remember, you can go to ufodailynews 218 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.079 dot com and hit the UFO news feed link at the top to see all 219 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:02.440 the latest stories. That is the Twitter feed, So you can also join 220 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:06.519 Twitter to be updated on a regular basis, so that you know when you're 221 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:08.720 at work, your phone's gonna buzz and you'll be like, oh my gosh, 222 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.839 UFOs and China, I gotta check this out and read the story, 223 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:17.000 and you'll be the guy. You'll be the hit of the office jumping up. 224 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.440 Hey guys, there's you a boots in China and everybody like, tell 225 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:23.319 us about it, man, and they'll think, whoa, this guy's cool. 226 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:30.240 You know everything about UFOs just because you follow my Twitter feed. So 227 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:37.119 thank you all for joining me again here this week, and thank you for 228 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.559 joining me. And I'm thank you because I'm sharing with you a very special 229 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:42.880 moment because it was a special moment and it was a lot of fun to 230 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:48.400 speak with some of my best buddies all at once, some of my heroes 231 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:53.480 in the UFO field to do this interview yesterday. So let's go ahead and 232 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:59.680 have a listen. I am extremely excited. I'm always excited to have these 233 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:04.960 guests on, but threefold because they're all three here to talk about this important 234 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:10.240 case. So we have Stanton, Grant and Lee on the phone. Hello 235 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:15.400 guys, Hello, Hello, all right, so we are here to talk 236 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:21.319 about what is exciting news, at least for us. You know on Chase 237 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:26.200 Brandon, XCIA employee and his claims. Now, he first talked about this 238 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:32.640 on Coast to Coast on June twenty third, and then Lee, you wrote 239 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:38.079 a story on the eighth, the anniversary of the news on Roswell way back 240 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.680 when in nineteen forty seven, and maybe you could give us the basics of 241 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.240 your interview at Chase and what his claims are. Well, when I first 242 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:52.799 became aware of him, I didn't even know his name prior to about ten 243 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.960 days ago, and I happened to hear the Coast to Coast am interview he 244 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:03.920 did. He was talking about how while he was still working for the CIA 245 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:11.119 back in the nineteen nineties, he was in a room at CIA headquarters and 246 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.920 he found a box with a label on it that simply said Roswell. It 247 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:19.920 was one of many boxes in a room that only a few people had access 248 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:26.359 to. He unlocked the box, looked inside it, saw some interesting things, 249 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.480 relocked it, put the box back, and said basically, oh my 250 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.519 god, it really happened. And I was listening to some of this interview 251 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.000 and I thought, well, this is a really interesting story. I wonder 252 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.119 why I haven't heard much about this in the mainstream media. So I thought, 253 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.920 well, I'll take a chance and I'll try and track down Chase and 254 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.960 see if he'll talk to me about this. And that's what I did. 255 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.640 I found him just over a week ago, sent him an email. That's 256 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.640 how I contacted him, and he called me back right away. He said 257 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.480 sure, let's talk about it, and from that I wrote the story. 258 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:07.759 He published it just last Sunday. So I wrote the story to coincide with 259 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:14.119 July eighth, that being the sixty fifth anniversary not of the crash of Roswell, 260 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.799 but of the anniversary of when that famous headline appeared in the Roswell Daily 261 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:26.960 Record that said that the Roswell military had captured Applying Saucer. And so for 262 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:32.480 that story, I included all these quotes from Chase Brandon and then it's like, 263 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:37.039 you know, the blank hit the fan at that point in the whole 264 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.880 UFO community that's still in an uproar over who is this guy? Can we 265 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.839 believe him? Can we trust him? Did he make it up? He's 266 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:49.480 got a book out now, a science fiction book about coincidentally about a CIA 267 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:53.119 man who stumbles onto the secret of Roswell. Well, of course it's just 268 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:59.319 garbage. Brandon's just trying to just push a book. That's where all the 269 00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:04.400 criticism has been about. The guy's been under amazing pressure since the story came 270 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.000 out. But you know, he kind of brought it on himself. I 271 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.079 think, as well, Now your story went big. It went to MSNBC, 272 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.279 it went to Fox. Everybody all big news is covering a Yeah, 273 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.000 did he get a hold of you? He was a little shy about all 274 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:22.720 this attention. Huh. Well, you know what, I actually called him 275 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.359 after all the attention started coming out, and I just basically wanted to see 276 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:32.480 how he was doing. And at first he wasn't really happy because he was 277 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:37.680 concerned that people were just jumping on him about the claims that he made rather 278 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.680 than trying to give him a chance to focus on his book. And I 279 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.960 said, well, well, you know, you started this chase and now 280 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.240 you have to ride it out. I mean, you're the one who made 281 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.160 these statements. You're dealing with a very sensitive community here that will jump on 282 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:59.200 almost anybody's statements about anything in the UFO field these days, and so you've 283 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.960 got everybody up in arms talking about this. You had to know this was 284 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.119 going to happen, and now you have to deal with the consequences. And 285 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.559 I don't know how long it's going to last, but as with many things 286 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:14.519 in the UFO world, it will die out and make way for something else. 287 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.400 I'm already on the trail of a couple of other hot topics, but 288 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:22.279 we won't talk about that today. Well, I know it should go ahead. 289 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:26.640 Let's me add one thing in there. Because it was mentioned the sixty 290 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.480 fifth anniversary of the story in the Rosweld paper, the Roswald Daily Record, 291 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:36.640 I should point out, and this comes up very often that many people think 292 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:40.200 that's the only place the story appeared. Well, as it happens, it 293 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:47.279 appeared in evening papers on July eighth from Chicago West, front page stories all 294 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:49.599 over the place, but not on the East coast because of the timing of 295 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:55.359 the release. There's a guy who is now a member of Congress from Minnesota. 296 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.799 I did a show in New York and well, it couldn't have been 297 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:02.119 a big story if it only made to Roswell paper. I had sent those 298 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:07.480 people a number of articles from other papers, like the Chicago Daily News, 299 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:12.240 like front page, Los Angeles Herald Examiner, big front page, and the 300 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:17.359 Sacramento b and one of the San Francisco papers. And it's all over the 301 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:22.519 place, and it's important only because people want to minimize the importance of this 302 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:26.880 story. You know, it was just in a tiny Rosweld paper. Well 303 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.000 it wasn't just in a tiny Rosweld paper. And as a matter of fact, 304 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:36.519 the Los Angeles Herald Examiner had the initial story and the headline was something 305 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:44.599 like Rosweld captures or Air Force Army Air Force captures UFO in Roswell region and 306 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.359 general thinks it's a radar weather gadget. Those were all in the same page, 307 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:55.240 front front page, headline, story, big story. So you know 308 00:24:55.960 --> 00:25:02.599 this story hit overseas, it hit other places. And how four hours late 309 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.799 later, right very quick? So yeah, I wanted to ask it must 310 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:11.240 have been a kind of a shocking to you. I mean, you uncovered 311 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:15.519 this late in the seventies where you talked to Jesse Marcel and he told you 312 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.200 what he told you. And when you went back and did the research and 313 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.680 found all of these headlines that you're talking about, were you pretty shocked? 314 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.160 Were you like, wow, look at all these headlines? How could this 315 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:33.440 have been lost to history? Well? I was surprised at that because it 316 00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:37.559 was only after a third story. Tucking to Jesse was the first story. 317 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.720 And then I talked to a man up in Minnesota imidg You State College. 318 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:47.440 She talked about the Barney Barnett story. Basically, you know, have you 319 00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:52.359 ever heard anything about crash in New Mexico? Yes, tell me more. 320 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:55.799 So I got names and so forth. And then I shared that with Bill 321 00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:03.359 Moore because I was going to be in Minnesota and he had third story from 322 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:10.000 Flying Saucer Review in which an English actor said, as he was driving across 323 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:14.079 the country he heard on the radio about a crass saucer in New Mexico and 324 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.319 Bill could talk to his son who was living in Canada. I eventually talked 325 00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:21.200 to him in England by phone. Anyway he could pin down the date. 326 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:23.480 Because it wasn't a trip you made very often from LA to Philadelphia. You 327 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:27.640 can imagine what the roads were like in nineteen forty seven, roughly first week 328 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.079 of July nineteen forty seven. So Bill went to the periodicals department in University 329 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:37.119 of Minnesota, which had a good collection, and there was a story and 330 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.240 it verified what Jesse had told me. It gave us new names, and 331 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.160 you know, we pitched in after that. We found sixty two people in 332 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:51.319 the next year and a half. And yeah, the story was all over 333 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:55.000 the place, but not on the East coast, you know, the New 334 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:56.880 York Times, Washington Posts, Dinca. They had to cover up story. 335 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:02.960 The next day, when I went back and checked, I found indeed, 336 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.359 there was a blurb in Frank Edward's book Flying Saucer's Serious Business about half a 337 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:15.359 page, and Ted Blocher's The nineteen forty seven UFO Wave had a paragraph or 338 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.839 so. They both got it kind of wrong, frankly because they hadn't seen 339 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.079 enough different they caught the cover up story, you know. So it was 340 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:27.079 just a lot of baloney. But yeah, it was surprising, and I, 341 00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:30.640 you know, I had known when I first talked to Jesse that forty 342 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:34.839 seven was a big year for UFO, you know, Kenneth Darnold and well 343 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:40.680 over a thousand sightings in that summer. But yeah, it shocked me. 344 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:47.359 And but we went at it and kept finding stuff. And that's the thing 345 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.960 that when people tell you, well, you know, justin the Roswell paper 346 00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:56.599 and so forth, that's baloney. But one of the things that's characterized and 347 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.240 public discussion of Roswell has been there's been an awful lot of baloney. I 348 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.359 think we were in a delicate testlinger or something, right, the noisy negatives 349 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:11.079 we're serving many baloney sandwich. Ye. Unfortunately, that happens a lot in 350 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:15.240 the media. Now I do want to get too into We'll get to more 351 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:21.400 on the history of the investigation, but as far as the chase timeline goes 352 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:27.559 grant, then you and a group of researchers got together and you emailed the 353 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:32.960 CIA and they actually responded. It sounds like they didn't answer all of your 354 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:36.880 questions, but one, so, what didn't they answer and what did they 355 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.920 answer? Well, they basically didn't answer anything, which is what I predicted 356 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:47.279 would happen. I should basically tell you our what happened with us was. 357 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:51.119 It was kind of weird because I got dragged into it by Robbie Graham and 358 00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:56.440 Chase. Chase is the sort of media expert for the CIA, and our 359 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:03.319 expert is Robbie Graham, who does Silver Saucers the relationship between UFOs and Hollywood 360 00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:07.920 from Great Britain. He's doing his PhD on the subject, and he works 361 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.680 with doctor Matthew Alford and they were working on this story and they were on 362 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.279 it from the word go. And I heard about this back like in June, 363 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.599 just after June twenty third, when he was on coast to coast and 364 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.240 they came to me and they said, this is a big story and nobody's 365 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.440 covering it. And Robbie put up a story on his website, and still 366 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.480 it really didn't really take off, And it really didn't take off until Lee 367 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.920 did the article. But Lea did the article like sixteen days after he made 368 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.200 the first statement. Until then, it was like Robbie couldn't believe me. 369 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.119 He offered it to make basically every major news outlet in the United States, 370 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:44.880 and nobody would take the story. It's just sort of died there until Lee 371 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:48.880 did the story. So my interest was and I was involved in this effort 372 00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:55.519 to send a letter to the CIA too because our obvious question to start was 373 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.720 how did this guy get on Coast to Coast And we took contacted George Knapp 374 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:02.200 and that, you know, why did you interview him? Why didn't the 375 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:04.039 George Norri interview him? How did this guy get on there? And of 376 00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:08.839 course our questions to the CI were did you authorize this guy going on the 377 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:14.759 CIA? And then there's sort of a clarification. People may object with me, 378 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.920 but in both Coast to Coast interviews, he he states that he is 379 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.319 still CIA. Everybody keeps talking about as an ex CIA he is states he's 380 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.880 under he's he retired, but he's on under contract. So as far as 381 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:33.000 I'm concerned, he's still a CIA guy. And my number one thing was 382 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.599 how does this guy get to go out and talk because I know from my 383 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:41.400 experience working at the University of Manitoba that you can't just go as a member 384 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:42.480 of the University of Manatoba and go out and talk to the media. We 385 00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.480 got in big trouble for doing it. So how does this guy get to 386 00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:52.680 sort of go on a major radio talk show as a CIA guy and drop 387 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.599 this bombshell? And so our reaction was always what is the CI, saying 388 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.599 like, did the CI authorize him to go on Coast to Coast? Did 389 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.599 the author rise him to talk to Lee? Did the CI talk to him 390 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.039 between the time did he talked to Coast to Coast when we talked to Lee? 391 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:08.400 Did they talk to him, you know, before he went on the 392 00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:11.160 second time with Coast to Coast. My reaction, I don't think this has 393 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.920 really been resolved is what was the involvement of the CIA. So there was 394 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:21.680 a doctor Alford, Robbie Graham, Victor Viggiani and myself and I said, 395 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:23.960 maybe the problem is here, we don't have any Americans signing this this letter 396 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:27.519 to the CIA. We had offered some Americans nobody would would come on the 397 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:32.240 letter with us. But so here's two Britons and two Canadian guys writing this 398 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:36.160 letter to the CIA. And we just basically demanded these answers, like how 399 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.119 did this guy get on the show? Did you authorize this? You know? 400 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.359 And all these sort of questions, is this is this real? Is 401 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:47.519 this guy for real? And all these kinds of questions. And the response 402 00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:49.599 that we got back was very encouraging. It said, we will look into 403 00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:55.960 this and we will let you know. And this was Robbie Graham wrote drafted 404 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:57.359 the letter. So they wrote back to Robbie Graham copy of the rest of 405 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.720 us. And so we were were kind of excited that they were actually going 406 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.599 to talk to Chase. They were going to ask them about this. And 407 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.680 that was where I think the story for us sort of died, was we 408 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:12.519 never got an answer to what are they going to do? They got this 409 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.839 story that they're being questioned and Billy Cox was questioning them. And I assume 410 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:20.480 that Lee probably wrote the CIA letter. Everybody's writing them letters about this guy 411 00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:23.799 making these statements. And my concern was what would they do. They would 412 00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.200 pull the coast to coast, they would hear what he said on coast to 413 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.680 coast and they would phone the guy and they would say, what did you 414 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:32.240 say? Why did you say this? Did you got no authorization to say 415 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.960 this? Where are the files? We want to find the files. Where 416 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.720 are the files? And so when it came to the end of our short 417 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:45.920 story was the CI just came back and said we could we heard the story. 418 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.720 We can't find any documents and that's it. And Billy Cox actually talked 419 00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.480 to the archivist and tried to get the archivest to elaborate on this, and 420 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:57.160 the archivist just simply said, I'm not going to say anything more than what's 421 00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:00.279 in the CIA statement, and they just sort of died. And my basic 422 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:04.240 impression, after my whole involvement, was this is what they've been doing for 423 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.440 the last fifty or sixty years, putting this stuff out and then pulling it 424 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:13.160 back and going back to their position. We're not involved, we don't know 425 00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:15.799 what's going on, and the story gets out there and they go on with 426 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:19.880 their merry business. In the UFO community, we all get into fights and 427 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:23.039 sort of rehash it, and it just goes on to the next story. 428 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.279 Well, there is another part of this. They did someplace along the way. 429 00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:34.279 The CIA referred to that lousy Haynes story, the historical story. Remember 430 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.559 that I saw a reference to that somewhere and that was a terrible story, 431 00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:43.000 lies and more lies and all that sort of thing. And they wouldn't. 432 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:49.240 I tried to write him, and I've got no answer. Yeah, the 433 00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:54.240 CIA loves to play games because he can get away with it. Nobody's telling 434 00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:58.480 them, Hey, you guys got to answer these questions. Yeah, And 435 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:00.960 there's an important part that when Chase talks. In both these interviews, he 436 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:06.799 talks about this. He says that basically, the CIA has all this oversight. 437 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:08.760 We can't do anything. We've got our arms tied behind our backs, 438 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:14.199 and we answer to the people at sixty thousand feet. And he keeps talking 439 00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:16.719 about this. We work for the people at sixty thousand feet, the President, 440 00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:22.119 the Executive Branch, the congressional intelligence committees, all these people think that 441 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:25.480 they really don't do anything except work for these people. And so to me, 442 00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:30.119 that's the important part is the CIA doesn't go out and start making cars. 443 00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:34.239 They don't. They you know, they have to do what they're told 444 00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:38.440 to do. They're working for these agencies, and therefore running around and playing 445 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:42.960 with UFO researchers must be something that they're being told to do. I can't 446 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.159 see that they would just nothing to do that day. If that's happening, 447 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.960 though, I mean, we'll get there, we'll get there. But let's 448 00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:52.400 talk about some more things. If that's happening, and we know that certainly 449 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:59.719 Chase is I wouldn't say he's sent some information out. Is he playing with 450 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:05.920 you UFO people. He came back on coast to coast on the twelfth and 451 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.519 I know, Lee, you've had, out of everyone, the most conversation 452 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:15.920 with Chase you met with them. I sat with him for over an hour 453 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.760 yesterday in New York City. You guys are good buddies now. So either 454 00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.119 you've gone to the dark side and you're helping him play with the UFO people 455 00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:28.000 or what I mean, what are your impressions having talked to him that do 456 00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.119 you see this as the CIA playing with UFO people again? Well, you 457 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.360 know this whole thing about what the CIA responded with about how you know, 458 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.079 we checked somebody to look for the box who couldn't find anything, you know, 459 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.000 thanks for thanks for inquiring. You know, they can only go one 460 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:49.880 way or the other, and they chose, I guess the higher road, 461 00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:53.400 because the only other thing that they could have said was yes, we found 462 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:59.280 the box that said roswell on it. Yes there's lots of great evidence in 463 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.719 there. Yes there are photos. Well, of course they're not going to 464 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:05.360 say that. So they could only go one way or the other. They 465 00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:07.760 either say yes, we admit it or no, we can't find it. 466 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:13.760 What else could they have done. They couldn't respond in any other way besides 467 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:19.519 those two ways. And they know that and there's something clever or secretive about 468 00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:24.800 that. I think that Chase was walking a very fine line when he said 469 00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:29.599 to me, when he said, look here, I saw some things in 470 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.679 the box. I saw some materials. There were photographs, and it validated 471 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.920 to me everything that I believed about what happened. It was no damn weather 472 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:43.440 balloon. It was the spaceship from somewhere else, and there were cadavers. 473 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:47.480 And it's all I'm ever going to say about it. And even yesterday when 474 00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:51.679 I was sitting with him in New York, I said, listen, I 475 00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:58.079 hope none of this is going to affect your pension from the CIA. He 476 00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:00.199 said, no, no, it's not a problem. Fine, I'm pushing 477 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:02.760 my book now and it's all I really want to talk about. And I 478 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:07.920 said, but Chase, your book is about a guy who's with the CIA 479 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:13.599 who uncovers the Roswell secret. So so you're talking about it either way. 480 00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:16.440 Yeah. Well, and to your point earlier, he had to have known. 481 00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:20.960 He had to have known it would get back to the CIA that he's 482 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.599 telling people he saw a box with this Roswell stuff in it that indicates to 483 00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:30.320 him there are extra threstrills a craft that crashed with bodies retrieved. So he 484 00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:35.800 had to have known. Is he playing a bit naive if he's kind of 485 00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:37.239 playing dumb like, oh, I didn't know this would be such a big 486 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:40.400 deal. He had to have known it would be a big deal, not 487 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.760 just to the media, but also to people at the CIA. I mean, 488 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:50.679 even if this is innocent that they don't know anything. At the CIA, 489 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:52.599 he had to have known it would be a big headache for them if 490 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:57.079 he went out and said this, let alone, what other possibilities there? 491 00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:01.000 Meaning there's another aspect of this that I'm becoming a I also just did stories 492 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:07.039 about the very recent release by the British government by the Ministry of Defense of 493 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:12.760 a new batch of UFO files. And the man who's been totally behind that 494 00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:15.840 and involved with that is a doctor David Clark in Great Britain. And he 495 00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:22.719 was telling me the other day that at least in the British government, behind 496 00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.800 the scenes in places like the archives, the National Archives, and he suspects 497 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.639 it might be like that in America. There are a lot of incompetent people 498 00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:39.000 there who don't know where things are. Things are not properly categorized or saved 499 00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:45.119 or compartmentalized, and especially when you have people who they work on a job 500 00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:46.880 for a certain amount of time and they leaven someone else comes in and takes 501 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:51.440 their place. They don't know where this stuff is. They don't even really 502 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:54.159 know how to help you find stuff. Even I found a little of that 503 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:58.480 at the National Archives. And stand, I know you've spent a lot of 504 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.440 time at the archives in Washington. Do you find the same thing there? 505 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:05.119 Well, yeah, I've been to twenty archives. And let me give you 506 00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:07.280 a specific example. One of the archives of the Eyes in our library was 507 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:14.119 telling me that a journalist comes in and says, can you put Majestic twelve 508 00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.000 in your computer and so we can see what all you've got? No, 509 00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:22.400 I cannot Why not? Well, our stuff isn't computerized. Well how am 510 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:27.119 I going to find out anything? Well, you tell us. We'll give 511 00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:31.199 you a list of the files of the subjects. You tell us which boxes 512 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:36.079 you want, we'll bring you the boxes. There's a limit of twelve, 513 00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:42.079 and you go through those and if they're withdrawal sheets, so we can see 514 00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:45.199 about trying to get you that material. Maybe it takes a year or two. 515 00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:52.039 But the reporter was totally Gotsmack to use the English expression because he thought 516 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:59.079 everything was computerized and easy to get and it isn't. And I had a 517 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:02.960 guy email me. He'd liked my research and wanted to know if I could 518 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.239 say a few things about how important the Internet was to my research. And 519 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:10.079 I said, well, you know, it's easy. It's nice not to 520 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:13.519 have to go over to the university a mile and a half away to find 521 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.719 out who won the Nobel Prize in physics in nineteen fifty eight. But you 522 00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:20.360 know, I can do it from my desk. But aside from things like 523 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:22.880 that, it had very little role. Well what do you mean, I 524 00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:27.920 said, Look, I've found out some very important stuff about Donald Menzel at 525 00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:31.239 Harvard. There's no way to find out that stuff until I went there, 526 00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:36.920 and I took permission from three different people to get to see that stuff, 527 00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:40.360 and it took weeks to get copies of things. The Internet didn't have a 528 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:45.159 role in that. So there's this crazy notion that everything is all out there 529 00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.679 and it's all computerized and you push a few buttons and you'll have everything you 530 00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:53.280 want to know. And you know, it just isn't like that at all. 531 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:59.679 It's moving slowly that way. But there's a huge of the entire library, 532 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:05.960 fifty thousand pages of a National Security Council material. Overall, I got 533 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:09.760 maybe fifteen or twenty million pages of information. So you want to do research, 534 00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:15.119 you could go there. And so it is interesting the CIA didn't even 535 00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:20.079 exist as such at the time of Oswell. And you know, I'm sure 536 00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:24.840 that the need to know concept is very important there. So that was an 537 00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:30.079 absolutely true statement. They don't know where things are, and it's not there's 538 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:34.960 no master guide, in other words, to where you find things. One 539 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.760 example, I'm looking at the Vanavar Bush papers and there's lots of them, 540 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:45.880 and I saw, oh, there's a listing correspondence with Donald Menzel. Well, 541 00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:47.960 it was a very important piece of mail that I've found, but I 542 00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:52.559 wouldn't didn't expect to find that when I went there, had no idea there 543 00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:54.760 was anything there. So, and I want to ask you and grant this, 544 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:59.599 because he's also spent a lot of times in archives. Then that part 545 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:05.159 of this story of him stumbling across this box that has Roswell written on it, 546 00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:09.400 how does that sit for you? Does that rid true as a possibility? 547 00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:15.639 Yes for me, it does. Anyway, remember this wasn't a regular 548 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:20.920 archives. What was the fancy name of that facility. It's I've got the 549 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.360 website up, which is interesting because it seems like it is a library mostly 550 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:30.880 of books. It's called the Historical Intelligence Collection. It's housed at the CIA 551 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:35.840 Library. Although I did find a quote here, you could go on their 552 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:37.840 website and find out a lot about all of this stuff. But it does 553 00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:47.199 say that they also have on display some artifacts, like different artifacts that have 554 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:54.079 been interest to intelligence in the past. Well, what I'm saying is most 555 00:42:54.280 --> 00:43:02.079 archives now have boxes and boxes archival boxes about CENTRISTEEP special paper, that's the 556 00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:09.039 non polluting and stuff, and they're just tons of these, like in the 557 00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:13.960 Raiders of the Lost Archive? Is that what it was? You know? 558 00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:16.920 And the way, well at the National Archives, the way they measure how 559 00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:22.039 much material they have, like Record Group three forty one ninety one hundred and 560 00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:29.960 thirteen feet of material that's feet of shelf space. This is the airport's intelligence 561 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.960 files from the early fifties. Now nobody's read all that stuff. Nobody knows 562 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:38.159 what all is in there. You got to go there, you know, 563 00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:45.599 can you imagine trying that's about one thousand and four drawer of five right one 564 00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:50.440 file. So you know, people act as if there are some super smart 565 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:54.559 people who push buttons and make entries and you know, outcomes everything you want 566 00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:59.639 to know from the machine. Nobody knows what all is there, which is 567 00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.880 because a lot of people think that they can just browse on the internet and 568 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.440 find everything about the CIA and Roswell and Alien just from browsing on the internet. 569 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:12.519 But you can't. That's what's great about you. And that's also what's 570 00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:15.239 great about Grant Cameron, is you know, doing the hard work going to 571 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:19.719 these places. What about you, Grant, You've spent a lot of time 572 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:22.480 going through archives, looking at files. How does that part of the story 573 00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:27.519 sit for you? Well? I was a little more suspicious because my experience 574 00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:30.920 in I've been to a lot of archives is that they're I mean, maybe 575 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:32.039 I don't know where a lot of stuff is, but they're very professional and 576 00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:36.239 they're very sort of anal It's like, you know, put one file out 577 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:37.079 at a time. In the box has to be the left. You can't 578 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.079 run of you, and so they can't so they can see what you're doing, 579 00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:44.079 and you can't use pens and you have to you know, there's like 580 00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:49.360 a million rules. It's like being in grade one. And and my problem 581 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.559 with it was the handwritten thing. Now maybe it had just come into the 582 00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:57.119 archives. Possibly. I had a problem with the handwritten thing because most of 583 00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:00.920 these guys are fairly well paid and everything is you know, the proper labels 584 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:05.719 and and all this kind of stuff unless it hasn't been processed yet, which 585 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:07.559 is a different story. The other problem I had with the with the box 586 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:10.559 was where everything is sort of together, that if it's uh, you know, 587 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:15.159 if it's compartimentalized stuff, that you're gonna have the documents and the photos 588 00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.199 and and all the material that you could possibly need in the one box where 589 00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:21.599 you could all sort of put it together, rather than well, I think 590 00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:27.360 it was a miscellaneous box, you know, the leftovers from the extensive files. 591 00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:30.559 But I don't know so that I had very extensive files on Roswell, 592 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:35.440 you know. But he's he's that's where he's starting to go. Now he's 593 00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:37.400 in his last interview. Now he's saying it's like, you know, somebody 594 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:40.679 cleaned out their desk and they just threw all this stuff in there, and 595 00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:45.039 that's sort of what it was. And that goes back to the to the 596 00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:49.760 Corso thing was the filing cabinet that you know in the with the paper clip 597 00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:52.960 that somebody threw all the rosweld material in there and left it sit there for 598 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.480 twenty years. And to me, that's not how they do it either. 599 00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:58.719 I think they're a little more professional than just throwing stuff into a box. 600 00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:00.840 And then when he brought off the the one that really sort of threw me 601 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:04.840 off was when he referred to the little o'layed with blue hair and the tennis 602 00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:07.960 sneakers as running the place. And I'm thinking, there are no people's the 603 00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:13.159 National Archives and at the Langley little old ladies with blue hair and tennis shoes 604 00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:17.239 who are running this, you know, top secret archives where they're keeping this 605 00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:21.480 type of material. Some of a lot of the stuff just didn't ring true 606 00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.760 to me. And what I thought he was just simply doing was he had 607 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:30.760 as access to classified material. But he has a quote in his second in 608 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:35.559 his second interview, he says, and he quotes from Bacon, Francis Bacon. 609 00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:37.440 He says it's the key quote that deals with the book. He says, 610 00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:42.239 truth is so hard to tell, it sometimes needs fiction to make it 611 00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:45.280 plausible and That's why I think he just did he had access to classified material. 612 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.920 He can't tell you where the classified material is, where he saw the 613 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.599 material, So you create a fictional story that he founded in a box and 614 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:58.559 some archives. And then that's so he's saying the box is not classified. 615 00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:00.440 When he's talking about the box. He said it is not classified the box 616 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:04.360 talking about the box, and that's because as far as I'm serting, the 617 00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:07.119 box doesn't exist, he saw the material somewhere else. And when you get 618 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:12.079 to the specifics of I'm not going to talk what I saw in the box 619 00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:16.360 because if he identifies a specific photo or a specific document that is classified, 620 00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:20.079 that's why he won't talk about what's in the box, but he will talk 621 00:47:20.119 --> 00:47:22.039 about the box. Because he's the fiction guy. He works, you know, 622 00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.480 undercover, he's the media guy. He's the guy, you know, 623 00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:30.119 the silver tongue devil that can you know, sort of charm a flyoff a 624 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:34.519 pile of Dodo. He's the guy, and he just makes up these sort 625 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:37.360 of stories that weave this thing in there, and he's sort of telling the 626 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.440 truth about what's going on, and he's just using this fictional thing the same 627 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:45.760 as his book. He says his book went through the review three times. 628 00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.039 They wanted this taken out, they wanted this taken out, they wanted this 629 00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:52.159 add it. And he's doing the same thing. He's creating a fictional story 630 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:57.280 to tell his story of coming in contact with the Roswell material. I'm just 631 00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:00.840 skeptical it wasn't in a box. It was someplace else that he saw it. 632 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:05.760 And he's using the box as a fictional type story to explain where he 633 00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:08.960 got the classified material because he can't tell you it was in box whatever whatever 634 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:13.480 and whatever archives it actually wasn't. That's a classify He can't talk about that. 635 00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:15.119 So he makes up the story about the box. It's not classified and 636 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:19.840 he can talk about it. Yeah. Well, the guy, he was 637 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:24.239 in the agency for so long that he certainly would be familiar with techniques for 638 00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:30.639 misrepresentation, for covering things up for you know, he's got a long history 639 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.320 of that. And remember he's been dealing with the movie guys for quite some 640 00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:37.039 time now as far as I can tell from right, And there's definitely Masters 641 00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:42.880 of Deception. Anybody who has worked on one of these UFO documentaries knows that. 642 00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:45.239 But Lee, what were you going to say, Lee, well, 643 00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:49.559 I was going to say that I haven't heard a lot of people write about 644 00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:57.679 or comments about this, and that is that Chase basically said that to CIA. 645 00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:05.599 Yeah, it's a CIA calling. Chase said that he saw stuff in 646 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:13.320 the box that validated to him everything he had believed and what he knew other 647 00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:16.360 people had talked about that actually happened at Roswelt. Nowhere did he say, 648 00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:23.320 although he didn't seen him right, that someone at CIA told him this stuff 649 00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:27.239 was real. Nobody came up to him and said, you know, we'd 650 00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:29.760 like to tell you about some things that happened at Roswell. You have a 651 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.480 high enough clearance of security clearance that we can tell you that I haven't seen 652 00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:37.480 anything like that. It says if he's trying to use a little bit of 653 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:44.800 misdirection and get people to think that it's all true even though he's not saying 654 00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:50.440 anybody at the agency confirmed this information. Well, my question too, is 655 00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:54.679 that it could he be misinterpreting this stuff. The CIA definitely collects stories from 656 00:49:54.679 --> 00:50:00.719 the media. I'm sure they have Danton's books, you know, some Grant's 657 00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:06.000 work, your stories, So could it be that these were stories from the 658 00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:10.480 media or books and material that wasn't generated from the CIA or possibly not to 659 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:15.760 the government at all in this collection, because that's what this collection seems to 660 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.440 be collecting, and he just misinterpreted or felt, oh, hey, Stanton's 661 00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:22.199 book was in this box and I read it, and now I believe in 662 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:30.119 Roswell. Well, you know, it's an interesting thought because we don't have 663 00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:34.400 a specific year when it was late nineties, mid nineties. He said that 664 00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:36.920 it was in the mid nineties when he was in that room. Yes, 665 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:42.280 yes, okay. The first book came out in nineteen eighty, the berlitz 666 00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:46.199 More Book. Several books since then, so you know, that's an interesting 667 00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:52.960 possibility. And also, you know, you find all kinds of inconsistencies when 668 00:50:52.960 --> 00:51:00.119 you're dealing with archives and agencies. People think everything is straightforward, inaccurate and 669 00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:07.119 earthing is checked, and it isn't like that at all. And it's very 670 00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.320 frustrating when you try to get answers to questions because often the answer is I 671 00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:15.719 don't know. And I've got to know one of the archivists at the National 672 00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:22.239 Archives pretty well, and you know, they have a difficult job because nobody 673 00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:29.039 quite knows what's going on. Like they kept the Cutler Twining Memo in a 674 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:32.840 separate box at the National Archive. So because so many people were asking to 675 00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:37.360 see it, it was separated from where it had been in the first place, 676 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:40.320 and it was found in a place where it shouldn't have been. So, 677 00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:45.519 you know, who knows, somebody's really being very careful overseeing everything that's 678 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:51.000 going on. Also, I have had several other stories I'm sure Grant has 679 00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:54.679 too, of people who had clearances and who were in an archive for some 680 00:51:54.840 --> 00:52:01.079 other reason and wandered around a little bit and found stuff that they probably shouldn't 681 00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:05.280 have seen, but because they had the clearance to be in there in the 682 00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:08.960 first place. In other words, nobody's really yes, when you sit at 683 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:14.280 the table at the eyes of our library, that eagle eyed gallop on the 684 00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:15.960 desk is watching you. And I've had her come back and say only one 685 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:24.039 polder at a time. Yeah, I mean that happens. But what I'm 686 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:31.639 saying is people who have clearances get into places and nobody's looking over their shoulder 687 00:52:31.719 --> 00:52:35.360 all the time. The question was that they have the clearance to be in 688 00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:40.400 there, you know. And so at the National Archives, the guy I 689 00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:46.760 knew took me down into the archives where you have to be escorted, because 690 00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:52.400 he didn't want to keep running up down the stairs. We were trying to 691 00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:55.119 find where certain stuff was. We had a long list of documents, but 692 00:52:55.199 --> 00:53:00.840 we didn't know which was in which box, which made it terribly proSP That's 693 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:02.519 a perfect example, you know, I got a listing here, and day 694 00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:05.440 I want to see this. We I don't know what box ha'ds in. 695 00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:13.320 So perfection is not what happens in archives, to say the least. I 696 00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:15.960 can I add a little quick story to that, Alejandro, Yeah, go 697 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:21.679 for it. Several decades ago, when I was a writer for the old 698 00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:27.480 Omni magazine, I went to Washington for the National Archives. I was looking 699 00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:32.559 up a few things just in their microfilm database, and I found in microfilm 700 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:40.840 a reference to a series of UFO sightings from nineteen sixty five over Edwards's Air 701 00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:45.239 Force Base, and I thought that was interesting, and I pulled up some 702 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:47.440 more information about it, and there were some descriptions of things that had been 703 00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:53.679 seen by several Air Force personnel on the day or on the night in question. 704 00:53:54.119 --> 00:54:00.000 And I noticed at the very bottom of the description it said supplement materials. 705 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:04.119 You know, please ask at desk or something like that, and so 706 00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:07.159 I went through the desk and I said, what are these supplementary materials? 707 00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:12.039 And they looked it up and they said there are audio tapes. And I 708 00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:15.920 said, really, is there any way of getting those audio tapes? And 709 00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:19.559 they said, well, hold on, and a few minutes later somebody came 710 00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:23.119 to where I was sitting in a room. They brought in a box and 711 00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:31.000 in this box were about ten or eleven reel to reel audio tapes and they 712 00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:35.159 said, here's all the stuff you asked for. And I said, well, 713 00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:39.280 do you have a machine that I can listen to these? And they 714 00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:43.679 did, and they brought me to an audio room and I put some of 715 00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:47.079 these tapes on and I was blown away because I was listening to real, 716 00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:54.400 authentic recordings from so many different people at Edward's Air Force Base. Rateur control 717 00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:59.920 operator tower personnel, people on the ground, people in jets that have been 718 00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:06.239 scrambled. Went on for hours and hours and hours of this amazing display of 719 00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:10.199 UFOs over Edward's Air Force Base. And I said to the archives, can 720 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:13.599 can I take these tapes? And they said, well, no, of 721 00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:17.320 course you can't, but if you if you'd like to bring your own tape 722 00:55:17.360 --> 00:55:22.719 recorder in we can let you have dubs of this stuff. And I said, 723 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:28.079 okay, that's great. Have other people asked about these recordings? They 724 00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:30.400 said, no, you're the first. You're the first person who's ever inquired 725 00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:34.800 about them. Because people just didn't know about them and didn't care. We 726 00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:37.480 didn't have them hidden anywhere. So I went I went back to New York, 727 00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:44.400 got my tape recorder, my cassette recorder with cables, went back to 728 00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:49.840 the Washington Archives and I sat there for hours and I dubbed the material and 729 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.760 I turned it into an omnipiece. And the stuff is incredible to listen to, 730 00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:57.800 and no one else had it right, and it wasn't it wasn't hidden 731 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.480 anywhere. I just had to go there. Like stances, sometimes you've got 732 00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:04.559 to go there and look at the stuff and look for it to find it. 733 00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:07.679 Well, yeah, I mean looking at you know, some of the 734 00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:10.280 because Grant will keep me up to speed away he's researching. I've read Santon's 735 00:56:10.280 --> 00:56:14.239 books, and when you read those you get this idea that there are so 736 00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:20.559 many files that even today there could be there's definitely hidden treasures out there in 737 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:24.480 files arts that are still yet to be found. Yeah, so let me 738 00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:29.440 call the problem. The problem is the cost. Incidentally, it takes money 739 00:56:29.480 --> 00:56:32.440 to go to the archives, to spend time there, to eat and sleep 740 00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:36.639 and you know, do all those things and to dupid as he said, 741 00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:40.519 if somebody would finance all this stuff, I would have been happy to spend 742 00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:45.880 full time doing it, right. Can I add one little quick story? 743 00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:50.440 I stant was talking about what's inside these archives? I was approaching when I 744 00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:53.920 was at Eureka Springs lecturingers by one of the people who worked in the vault 745 00:56:53.719 --> 00:57:00.480 at the National Archives, and his wife had been interested in the whole MG 746 00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:01.679 twelve document thing, and she was showing it to him. He had no 747 00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:04.920 interest with sever and he suddenly got interested. He said, well, I'm 748 00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.199 gonna see if this m J twelve thing is for real. And he told 749 00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:09.639 me and this would be interest that and I don't know, maybe A told 750 00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:12.880 Stanton before. Uh. He told me. He says, you know, 751 00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:15.760 I think that that Cutler twenty memo was for real. And I said, 752 00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:16.800 well, why do you think that? And he said, well, me 753 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:20.320 and me and a couple of the other guys went there one time on our 754 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:23.360 break and we looked at it and I can tell by the way they're they're 755 00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:28.800 keeping control of it that they think it's for real. If they didn't think 756 00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:30.960 it was for real, they wouldn't And he mentioned that, you know, 757 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:32.760 it was in plastic and they were doing all this type of stuff and how 758 00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:36.360 they stored it and stuff, and he said, this is this was significant 759 00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:38.079 to him, that that there maybe there was something to this when he saw 760 00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:42.000 how they were storing the document. He's a guy that that that actually is 761 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:45.800 the guy that these these classifications and withdraws documents. And so he went to 762 00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:49.840 his teams. They work in teams of four, and he was with various 763 00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.400 teams and he would tell them, I'm looking for MG twelve documents. If 764 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:53.599 you see anything with MG twelve, I want to know. And he said 765 00:57:53.639 --> 00:58:00.280 to me, he said, if it's justifiably classified, I'll you know, 766 00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:02.599 stamp it classified and it won't come out. But if there's no reason to 767 00:58:02.679 --> 00:58:07.119 declassify or to withhold it, I'm going to release the documents. So he 768 00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:09.199 had his all his buddies and they were all looking for the m J twelve 769 00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:13.239 documents. They were to notify him if they saw something with MJ twelve and 770 00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.480 one of the archives and he mentioned the guy's first name was the Spanish name, 771 00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:20.000 and he said, this guy recalled years ago that yes, he did 772 00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:23.800 see stuff with MJ twelve when he was doing SUS stuff. He was firing 773 00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:30.440 joint system material and he'd seen the twelve stuff on documents. So here's the 774 00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:32.320 type of stuff where you get approached by somebody inside the vault. And I 775 00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:36.679 actually went and I talked to him, and Ryan would talk to him extensively. 776 00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:39.800 And this guy is inside the National Archives and he's declassifying, you know, 777 00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:43.880 and he does what he does, Like one day he's doing nineteen fifty 778 00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:45.800 army stuff. The next day, whatever they tell him to do, he's 779 00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:49.280 doing. Yeah, but he says he's got his eyes open and if m 780 00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:52.639 J twelve stuff comes up and there's no reason to withhold it, it's coming 781 00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:55.840 out. Hadn't seen it yet, though. Huh. Okay, let me 782 00:58:55.920 --> 00:59:00.199 go around and let's start with Grant. I want to ask this question from 783 00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:02.199 everybody, and I think I have an idea from what you've said so far 784 00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:07.559 what your answers would be. And we'll get more into the other possibilities, 785 00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:12.440 but we'll start with Grant. So, do you believe Chase's statements were live 786 00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:16.880 statements he just made solely to publicize his book, which is the kind of 787 00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:22.119 the overall feeling that most of the media is kind of putting out there. 788 00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.079 Well, that's part of it. He's promoting his book. But as he 789 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:30.800 said, his book went through this review two or three times, and he 790 00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:34.199 said it they gave him a hard time and they wanted stuff taken out. 791 00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.280 The whole point is the CI says had been involved in nineteen fifty three, 792 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:40.519 that don't have any interest. Why are they pulling stuff out of this book, 793 00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:45.000 which is definitely a book on UFOs. And he talks about the second 794 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:46.800 book. He's got another book coming out in sixteen to eighteen months once this 795 00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:50.880 is done. It's on UFOs too, And he said that one really good. 796 00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:52.519 I thought. He said, the second one is not on UFOs. 797 00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:55.760 No, he said, it's a fiction book. It's not a science fiction 798 00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:59.320 book. It's a fiction book, but it also deals with UFOs. He 799 00:59:59.320 --> 01:00:01.039 talks about in the same an interview, and he said that one really got 800 01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:04.920 hammered by the reviewers. And to me, that's the whole thing is, 801 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:07.280 why are the reviewers if they don't know anything about UFOs aren't interested in UFOs. 802 01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:10.039 Why are they pulling this stuff? And why is Chase fighting? He 803 01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:14.320 said, I was fighting to get this stuff back in there, and so 804 01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:17.039 he's not fighting about He's a guy that plays by the rules. He knows 805 01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:21.159 what the rules are, sources and methods. He's not going to fight about 806 01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:24.920 sources and methods. He's fighting about different parts of the UFO story. But 807 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:30.440 did he say that explicitly that it was UFO stuff they were taking out that 808 01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:32.519 I wanted back in. Well, he said they were taking stuff out, 809 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:37.639 so we don't know necessarily, could be the First World War trench warfare stuff. 810 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:40.039 I kind of doubt whether it's, you know, the First World War 811 01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:45.639 stuff, And then he makes someone needs to ask that question. Just well, 812 01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:46.800 that's what I think has to happen. Is I know I was going 813 01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:52.400 to ask Lee. My question to Chase would be, did you talk to 814 01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:54.920 CI? Did the CI talk to you? I don't care what Chase said. 815 01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:59.840 I it's irrelevant. I want to know what is the CIA's role in 816 01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:02.199 the whole thing, and that has not been established. What Chase says could 817 01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:07.199 all be just him publicizing a book, or or he's interested. He's like 818 01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:09.480 a guy inside there, and you're a you're a good old boy, and 819 01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:13.199 you've got some of the story and you're interested in UFO, so we'll let 820 01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:15.239 you write your book. It's like it's it's almost like an agent who wants 821 01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:20.039 to tell the story that he was a James Bond spy and he wants to 822 01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:22.519 tell his grandkids and that he was he saved the world, and they let 823 01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:25.599 him write a book. They fictionalized the book, and he tells the truth. 824 01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:29.360 So that's what Chase is telling the truth in this book, and it's 825 01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:32.119 all fictionalized. I want to know what was the CI's role, and that 826 01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:37.400 has not really been established by anybody interviewing, and we have I know Jerry 827 01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:39.119 Pippen has tried to contact him. He will not talk to Jerry Pippen. 828 01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:44.519 H matt doctor Matthew Alford has contacted him again. He talked to him once. 829 01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:46.519 He will not talk, he will not respond to his letters. Those 830 01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:51.039 other people are gonna ask the questions, and it has not been established. 831 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:52.440 So I don't think we can really say it. But I think the CIA, 832 01:01:52.960 --> 01:01:55.760 my guess is a CI has some role. They're not sitting on the 833 01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:00.480 sidelines watching this guy just sort of. You know, I'll take the story 834 01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:05.320 viral on the internet. Stanton, what do you think do you think that 835 01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:08.000 is well? I think that there's a lot of truth in the story. 836 01:02:08.119 --> 01:02:13.920 It wouldn't surprise me if there was some fiction as well. And agents. 837 01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:16.440 I mean, what if he got thirty some years with the CIA. You 838 01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:22.480 expect there to be cover story mentality all the time. You know, you 839 01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:27.760 leave out things, you dress it up a little bit. I was in 840 01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:30.559 touch with Robbie Graham. He wrote me a couple of years back. So 841 01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:36.840 when I checked with him, in found that Chase was on their screen. 842 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.599 You know, for years as a guy who did what he said he did. 843 01:02:39.639 --> 01:02:45.119 He worked with the movies in Hollywood and so forth as an advisor. 844 01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:51.039 So I don't think it's one hundred percent true. I think partly to protect 845 01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:55.480 himself, but I think he wasn't thinking too wisely, because I think he 846 01:02:55.559 --> 01:03:01.519 did cross a line. I worked under curity for fourteen years, and you 847 01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:06.639 get to be very cautious about that. Now Here he was in a situation 848 01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:10.119 where he wasn't dealing with other people with clearances. I think he got a 849 01:03:10.119 --> 01:03:15.880 little careless, a little carried away, and so the fact that it seems 850 01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:19.360 to fit in with his book is you know, neat for him. But 851 01:03:20.199 --> 01:03:24.159 I think mcniy sounds like he's too sharp. Yeah, that's the thing. 852 01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:28.440 He does, seem like very savvy. And I guess because you are a 853 01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:31.679 Roswell expert, the Roswell expert, at least the details of what he's saying 854 01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:38.199 in extraterrestrial craft crashing with bodies fund I mean that at least fits what you 855 01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:43.920 believe to be check. Yes, it certainly does, and no question about 856 01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:46.039 that. And certainly, you know, when you look at all the other 857 01:03:46.119 --> 01:03:52.679 crazy stuff that's come out, think of Annie Jacobson, what nixt book with 858 01:03:52.800 --> 01:04:00.760 the deformed Japanese and the other book about the Germans, they have so little 859 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:05.960 substance to them. He or he hasn't said anything that goes beyond the pales, 860 01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:10.760 so to speak. And so you know, what we don't know is 861 01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:15.119 how long he's been interested in Roswell or do we know that to grant or 862 01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:18.079 lead? Do you know if he has indicated he's been following us for twenty 863 01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:21.559 years or anything. I don't think he's been following I don't know if he's 864 01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:26.159 been following for twenty years. But all that he said to me was that 865 01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:30.559 he has had a long standing belief because he knows about the original stories. 866 01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:35.880 And he said, he said to me, look, I cannot fathom that 867 01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:42.599 there were so many different kinds of eyewitnesses there in nineteen forty seven, both 868 01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:48.280 military and civilian. Is it really possible that every single one of these people 869 01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:53.840 who initially came forward and had an interesting story to tell? Were they all 870 01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:58.159 coerced into lying? Or did they all come together as a group and say, 871 01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:00.400 hey, let's put out this urban ledgen and about something that crashed there. 872 01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:02.639 I mean, what are the odds? He kept saying to me, 873 01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:09.639 what are the odds that so many people would have come together and lied about 874 01:05:09.639 --> 01:05:13.199 something or made up this kind of a story back in nineteen forty seven, 875 01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:16.800 when things like that won't even really talk much about in a place like Roswell 876 01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:23.639 in New Mexico. And let me assure you that many of these people didn't 877 01:05:23.719 --> 01:05:27.320 come forward. I've had people say, well, how come Jesse marsall came 878 01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:31.079 forward to you stand, you know, like he knows you're a UFO expert, 879 01:05:31.159 --> 01:05:35.480 so he's making up a story for where me he didn't come forward? 880 01:05:35.599 --> 01:05:39.880 And Bill Moore and I when we tracked on sixty two people in a year 881 01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:44.760 and a half, we had to find them. We went after them. 882 01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:48.679 They didn't come running to us. It took you know, a lot of 883 01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:54.960 dog work and huge phone bills. Is before the internet, you understand, 884 01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:59.119 to find these people. Look, I had to dig out Thomas Jefferson Dubos. 885 01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:04.760 I had a hunch he might be alive and if he probably came from 886 01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:10.599 West Point because all kinds of officers after World War Two were West Finders who 887 01:06:10.599 --> 01:06:14.320 stayed in They were career people. So I called the West Point the alumni 888 01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:17.960 association. Yes he's still around, and they gave me some hints about where 889 01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:21.000 he was. And I had trouble finding because he was only down in Florida 890 01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:27.239 in the wintertime in the summer time. But I found him. I was 891 01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:30.960 going to Florida. I met with him. He didn't go volunteering to me, 892 01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:36.079 which is true of the recent witnesses that Don Schmidt and Tom Carey have 893 01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:40.119 also been looking for. I mean, they all you all have to do 894 01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:43.960 research to find who was there when, who might have known something. Hunt 895 01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:47.800 these people down, call them up and see if they're willing to say something 896 01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:55.320 an interesting point, an interesting point when they talked about the Roswell thing, 897 01:06:55.519 --> 01:07:00.360 and I think it was Tom Carey said it, it's sort of maybe sort 898 01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:03.199 of applies to this. He said that any of the lot or not all 899 01:07:03.320 --> 01:07:09.000 or but a lot of the witnesses who came forward, who volunteered with stories 900 01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:12.199 almost always turned out to be not true. It was the ones that they 901 01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:15.920 had to track down that were the real significant stories. And so there again 902 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.880 is a question about Brandon sort of coming forward in this when nobody's really asking 903 01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:21.719 him about, well, what about Lee, We didn't get to you. 904 01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:26.599 Do you believe the statement or false mat just to publicize this book? Do 905 01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:30.079 you get that sense? No? I don't get the sense from Chase. 906 01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:36.159 And yesterday he told me that just in this first week alone, that everything 907 01:07:36.199 --> 01:07:40.679 has kind of come down on him for what he's been doing and saying, 908 01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:45.719 he said that the CIA thinks of it more as a nuisance factor. They 909 01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:49.360 don't really have the time, they don't want the time, they didn't want 910 01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:55.079 to have to talk about this or defend themselves. He's pretty much kind of 911 01:07:55.119 --> 01:07:59.199 on his own about this, and so everybody who's trying to back the CIA 912 01:07:59.360 --> 01:08:02.480 into a core or with all these letters and almost demands, and you must 913 01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:05.760 tell us, you know, was there really a roswell box or not? 914 01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:10.039 You know, the CIA sees this like, you know, like like you're 915 01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:13.239 a human and you've got like moths flying out. You just want to kind 916 01:08:13.239 --> 01:08:15.520 of brush them off because they have other things to spend their time doing. 917 01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:20.760 The other thing that people are talking about, you guys were talking a minute 918 01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:26.239 ago, was what did the CIA tell him to take out of the book. 919 01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:30.800 It seems to be almost bigger than it really should be. I believe 920 01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:36.319 that all that he's talking about here is that he may have included things in 921 01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:45.079 the book that were of specific policies or agency procedures that of course they wouldn't 922 01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:47.840 want any kind of hint to come out, because basically, he signed a 923 01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:53.439 secrecy old years ago that he wouldn't reveal things that were of a policy or 924 01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:58.800 procedural matter. And so it sounds like to me he had some things in 925 01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:01.560 the book that were little too close to home, and they probably said to 926 01:09:01.680 --> 01:09:06.279 him take that out, you know, either deleted or write something else around 927 01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:09.920 it. But you're getting a little too close to how we operate here, 928 01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:13.159 and we don't think you're just guessing about that, though. I'm just guessing 929 01:09:13.159 --> 01:09:16.159 about that. No, it's just just basically what he said to me the 930 01:09:16.239 --> 01:09:20.399 other day was they're thinking of it in terms of it's like a nuisance to 931 01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:25.039 them right now. There's nothing to it as far as they're concerned. It's 932 01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:30.159 almost like it made me think of you know, back when the Roswell incident 933 01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:34.439 occurred and the military had whatever it was it crashed, and wasn't it j 934 01:09:34.640 --> 01:09:40.199 ed Gohoover who was complaining that the military wasn't letting his agents get a hold 935 01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:45.079 of the disc Yeah, yeah, not sharing their information yet, right right, 936 01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:49.520 Remember that j Edgar Hoover also lied. It is not now, nor 937 01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:54.319 has it ever been the policy of the UFOs too, I mean of the 938 01:09:54.399 --> 01:10:01.520 FBI to delve into UFOs and then Bruce mcabee gets fifteen hundred pages of FUFOS 939 01:10:02.079 --> 01:10:04.880 right, Yeah, the got caught the same way in the in the nineteen 940 01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:09.880 seventies. Yes, so yeah, to Grant's point earlier though, Lee, 941 01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:12.800 and this is a curious one. I know, Grant's very curious about it. 942 01:10:13.159 --> 01:10:15.720 Why is he only talking to you now and he's not talking to anybody 943 01:10:15.720 --> 01:10:21.880 else. Look, I you know, are you on the payroll? Well, 944 01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:27.359 well, next week I get my neuralizers, so be careful. Yeah, 945 01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:29.640 I'm going to aim it at you the next time I see you. 946 01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:34.840 All I know from the timeline of all this. He did the first interview 947 01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:40.359 with Coast to Coast and I heard about it. I stumbled upon it. 948 01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:43.600 I listened to some of it, and I wondered, also, why isn't 949 01:10:43.600 --> 01:10:48.159 this a bigger story? And I couldn't find anybody who was willing to give 950 01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:53.720 me his contact information, so I thought, well, okay, I went 951 01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:58.960 to his website. I found two different addresses email addresses for him on the 952 01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:03.319 website. I wrote him an email to both addresses and introduced myself and said, 953 01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:05.880 I Chase, Here's who i am, here's what some of the things 954 01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:10.479 that I've done. I would love to interview you any chance you're available in 955 01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:13.920 the next day or two, I hope to hear from you. And the 956 01:11:13.960 --> 01:11:18.039 next day he called me. I was surprised, and he said, I'd 957 01:11:18.039 --> 01:11:20.840 love to talk to you, and that's how that happened. And then we 958 01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:25.319 ended up having an hour and a half conversation where we talked about a lot 959 01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:30.560 of things, most of which didn't get into my story. He was very 960 01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:34.159 fourth right, very very forthcoming. But he did say to me after my 961 01:11:34.279 --> 01:11:38.920 story was published that he didn't want to talk to anybody else at this point 962 01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:43.199 because of all the heat that had come on him, because people above him 963 01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:46.159 were complaining that there was a NUS inspector about you know, now, why 964 01:11:46.119 --> 01:11:50.399 are they calling us the CIA? And he basically said, at this point, 965 01:11:50.680 --> 01:11:55.840 I don't want to talk to anybody unless it's about just my book. 966 01:11:56.199 --> 01:12:00.279 I don't want to talk about which is why he was sure, Well, 967 01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:01.560 that's what I was going to say. It's I think that's why he was 968 01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:05.319 the way he was on coast to coast. Yes, he tried to stick 969 01:12:05.359 --> 01:12:10.439 to the book, and whenever he was asked questions about the CIA the other 970 01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:14.000 stuff, he paused and he didn't want to answer the question. That's right. 971 01:12:14.359 --> 01:12:16.600 And he even said at one point, are you going to ask me 972 01:12:16.640 --> 01:12:19.359 this question? Because I'm sure they had an agreement you said you weren't going 973 01:12:19.399 --> 01:12:27.039 to ask me this stuff but influenced Hollywood. That was the question. Yeah, 974 01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:31.640 that was right and right because he even said, are you going to 975 01:12:31.640 --> 01:12:34.720 ask me this question? And I know I'm sure it's because of what and 976 01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:38.560 I had known what Lee had said that he didn't want to talk to anybody 977 01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:43.399 anymore unless it was about his book, And all of a sudden, Noriri 978 01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:45.399 is asking him questions that weren't just about his book. So he's like, 979 01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:49.000 oh, you like told so what what Chase is doing right now? Because 980 01:12:49.399 --> 01:12:54.079 people know kind of how to how to find him through his email address. 981 01:12:55.439 --> 01:12:59.600 He said that he's getting emails from people, especially requests for interviews, and 982 01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:04.720 he asked somebody who's filtering through the stuff and helping him decide if it's anybody 983 01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:09.199 he wants to talk to, so that that's that's all I know about that, 984 01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:12.199 And you're the only one. So your answer is kind of because you're 985 01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:15.479 the most likable guy he talked to, I can buy that. Well, 986 01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:20.880 you're very persistent. Well, you know, I wanted to clear some things 987 01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:26.880 up with him. He was very happy that I followed through in certain things. 988 01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:30.239 And and then when when he told me he was going to be in 989 01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:33.960 New York and he suggested that we get together, well I couldn't pass that 990 01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:38.800 up. And so there we were together yesterday and it was it was a 991 01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:41.119 great meeting, and I was very happy to get to know him. A 992 01:13:41.119 --> 01:13:45.399 little bit about him. Did you did he give you any secrets? Yes, 993 01:13:45.560 --> 01:13:51.439 but I'll have to kill you if I tell you. So. Okay, 994 01:13:51.600 --> 01:13:56.199 now I want to get into because we've only got about ten or so 995 01:13:56.319 --> 01:14:00.520 minutes here about some of the other stuff Grant's been writing about. Has Grant's 996 01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:05.239 been writing that there is some history with CIA playing with UFO people, like 997 01:14:05.279 --> 01:14:10.359 you said earlier in particular, and of course this is something that Stanton's very 998 01:14:10.359 --> 01:14:15.640 familiar with because it was related to him and his cohorts Bill Moore, like 999 01:14:15.680 --> 01:14:19.279 we talked about earlier. So and it's great to get Stanton's take on this, 1000 01:14:20.119 --> 01:14:23.920 just to give the listeners some history who might not know much about this, 1001 01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:26.000 even though I talked about this a lot on the show, because I 1002 01:14:26.039 --> 01:14:30.319 think this is a really interesting history. Period of time in UFO history was 1003 01:14:30.359 --> 01:14:34.079 that in the late seventies, Richard Doty, who is an Air Force Office 1004 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:40.079 of Special Intelligence officer at Kirtland Air Force Base, started interfacing with a guy 1005 01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:45.359 named Paul Benowitz, essentially giving him alleged UFO documents, some of which have 1006 01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:53.039 been discovered to be false to supposedly, and Dodie has said this to because 1007 01:14:53.760 --> 01:15:00.479 Benowitz was seeing lights. He was essentially observing technologies on Kirkland Airport. They 1008 01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:04.640 didn't want people to know about, including some of the Russian associates that Penwitz 1009 01:15:04.680 --> 01:15:09.159 had, and so they tried to make them look foolish and believe it was 1010 01:15:09.199 --> 01:15:13.079 all UFOs and extraterrestrial, so the Soviets would get off the track. The 1011 01:15:13.159 --> 01:15:17.520 thing was is that according to Bill Moore in who came clean in nineteen eighty 1012 01:15:17.600 --> 01:15:24.960 nine, that since nineteen eighty he had been working with Dody to get this 1013 01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:30.119 material out. William Moore being the person who wrote the first Big Rodslow book 1014 01:15:30.199 --> 01:15:34.239 mostly based off of Stanton's work. Now Bill and I together, but Charles 1015 01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:40.399 Burlocks is the one that took advantage of what right his name was magic with 1016 01:15:40.479 --> 01:15:43.920 publishers, the corner office at Double Day and all that sort of stuff. 1017 01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:46.000 So you want to get a book published, do it with Burlets and you'll 1018 01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:51.039 get it published. So the question is, I guess this kind of hinges 1019 01:15:51.079 --> 01:15:56.920 around. Dody says and Moore says, they were working with a gentleman that 1020 01:15:57.039 --> 01:16:01.159 they gave the code named Falcon. And the question is did this Falcon person 1021 01:16:01.800 --> 01:16:05.640 exist? Was it Dody the whole time or not? And was this person 1022 01:16:05.720 --> 01:16:10.960 working for the CIA. I believe Bill Moore and Dotey said he worked for 1023 01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:15.560 a different agency other than the Air Force Intelligence. I know, at least 1024 01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:17.800 in Great Bishop's book, he has a strong feeling that if this person exists, 1025 01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:21.880 his only concern was the Soviet Union and not UFOs at all. I'm 1026 01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:26.880 wondering, what are your thoughts, Stanton on Falcon, if he existed, 1027 01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:30.479 and who he might have worked for. Well, you know, Bill was 1028 01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:36.159 keeping me informed when he first met with Dodi in the restaurant in Albuquerque when 1029 01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:43.600 he was publicizing the book Roswell Incident. I had I think maybe two conversations 1030 01:16:43.600 --> 01:16:46.760 with Dody over the years, and my feeling was that they were probably a 1031 01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:56.079 little not happy with Bill not running the way he should have with the information 1032 01:16:56.159 --> 01:17:01.359 that he was being gifted with, you know them twelve documents and others. 1033 01:17:01.359 --> 01:17:08.439 Because Bill and Jamie were I had moved back east in nineteen eighty, so 1034 01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:12.079 Bill and Jamie were in southern California. I am someone who got the two 1035 01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:15.439 of them together in the first place, and they were trying to they were 1036 01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:19.000 raising money from people. They were going to have a movie and a book 1037 01:17:19.079 --> 01:17:25.319 and do all kinds of stuff and make me sort of a partner along the 1038 01:17:25.359 --> 01:17:30.560 way a little bit. But they had saucerers in their eyes. I mean, 1039 01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:35.039 they were looking to go big time. And I wasn't overjoyed about that. 1040 01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:41.720 And I found that Bill was a strange character and he did his own 1041 01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.840 thing, and I was very upset with him when he talked about what he 1042 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:54.439 talked about in Las Vegas in eighty nine, and it was distressing to me. 1043 01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:58.359 We're very different people in how we go about things. And as anybody 1044 01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:03.760 granted you talked to Bill in the last five years, I haven't either more 1045 01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:08.960 than that. And you know, I also got caught in the middle, 1046 01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:11.760 you know, just to give you an example of this, people knew I 1047 01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:15.279 knew him. They were sending him money for books and they weren't getting the 1048 01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:17.560 books. So they were complaining to me, right, and I complained to 1049 01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:21.119 him. I said, you're violating the law of Bill. Oh there's no 1050 01:18:21.279 --> 01:18:25.880 law, and maybe bad business, but so I checked at the post office, 1051 01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:32.600 and you do mail order stuff. There aren't laws about complying with orders 1052 01:18:32.640 --> 01:18:36.039 and money and you know, all this kind of stuff. But we thought 1053 01:18:36.079 --> 01:18:41.840 differently about these things. He thought he needed it more is what he said, 1054 01:18:41.880 --> 01:18:45.279 than they did the money, and that's not the proper approach as far 1055 01:18:45.319 --> 01:18:53.840 as I'm concerned. And so I think Bill had you know, it was 1056 01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:57.760 the kind of guy who would leave home to go off on tracking down something. 1057 01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:00.159 He wouldn't tell his wife where he was going, and they had the 1058 01:19:00.439 --> 01:19:05.279 child who had allergies and she didn't drive, and the perilous thing to do, 1059 01:19:05.319 --> 01:19:11.399 an irresponsible thing to do, and so you know, it was very 1060 01:19:11.439 --> 01:19:18.159 hard dealing with Bill after a certain point in time. So what drives him 1061 01:19:18.239 --> 01:19:21.600 I don't know, But he's dropped out for a lot of years, and 1062 01:19:21.720 --> 01:19:27.760 I haven't because I'm intrigued by the story, by the whole business, not 1063 01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:30.680 the money angle. Although I've had people say you're only in it for the 1064 01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:34.600 money. Stand I almost didn't call you. One guy says, because you're 1065 01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:36.359 only in it for the money. Why do you say that? Well, 1066 01:19:36.399 --> 01:19:40.399 I see on all these television shows, I don't get paid. What do 1067 01:19:40.479 --> 01:19:44.079 you mean you don't get paid? I don't get paid, even Larry King, 1068 01:19:44.800 --> 01:19:47.720 that's right. And then he stepped back for a second. Well, 1069 01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:51.600 you showed your book, yeah, in context on the program. Look at 1070 01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:55.840 all the other people whose books they showed, and you know, they're collecting 1071 01:19:55.840 --> 01:19:59.399 a lot of money from my being on their show. I'm not getting a 1072 01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:00.760 dime for being on the show. They don't even pay it for meals. 1073 01:20:00.920 --> 01:20:04.640 That's your compensation. You get to actually advertise your book and hopefully you'll buy 1074 01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:08.760 your book and you'll be able to make the twenty cents from the balance. 1075 01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:12.439 Well, yeah, I mean, what I'm saying is there are a lot 1076 01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:15.960 of people out there who think everybody comes running to us, who think that 1077 01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:20.159 we're making lots of money from it. You know, I just did a 1078 01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:24.600 thing with George Norri in Toronto. I wasn't paid for that. They paid 1079 01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:28.880 the expenses and they had twelve hundred people there who paid good money to attend 1080 01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:33.199 and I sat signing water dress for hours. But you know, so there's 1081 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:39.760 a lot of misrepresentation out there, and what really frosts me is the attitude 1082 01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:44.000 of the nasty, noisy negativists, as I call him. There's Joe Nickel 1083 01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:47.840 two times, ten years apart, saying that the roswel oh yeah, an 1084 01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:56.479 anonymous PR guide put out an unauthorized press release to get attention, and I 1085 01:20:57.239 --> 01:20:59.760 was on the air with them at the same time, and I pointed out 1086 01:20:59.760 --> 01:21:02.800 that was ridiculous, and so forth, nine years later, he's still saying 1087 01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:06.560 the same thing. I gave him Walkout's name. I pointed out, you 1088 01:21:06.600 --> 01:21:10.800 know, all the facts didn't bother him at all. Don't bother me at 1089 01:21:10.840 --> 01:21:14.279 the facts. My mind's made up. That's the noisy negative iss. So 1090 01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:20.000 here we have a great area. I would say with Chase, I don't 1091 01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:25.640 believe it's one hundred percent true that everything he said is it gives us a 1092 01:21:25.680 --> 01:21:29.560 true picture. On the other hand, I think it mostly is. And 1093 01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:33.560 so what I'm hoping is that other people will come forward and say, what 1094 01:21:33.600 --> 01:21:40.079 the hell, I'm retired, I'm old. Now maybe we should all tell 1095 01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:43.760 the truth about this. I don't know, Grant, you think that's going 1096 01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:46.600 to happen. Probably not. Well, I didn't think this Chase would happen 1097 01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:50.640 either. Yeah, So, and Grant, you kind of feel that this 1098 01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:57.439 balcon guy, your belief is that he was working for CIA, and that 1099 01:21:58.279 --> 01:22:02.680 that incident kind of mirrors this one. And there was incidents before even more 1100 01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:08.279 important like this. You know, the whole deal with Bill with the CIA, 1101 01:22:08.319 --> 01:22:11.239 and he was representing CIA people, and you have all these high ranking 1102 01:22:11.319 --> 01:22:15.479 names that supposedly were above Falcon. But you have two stories before that. 1103 01:22:15.640 --> 01:22:17.680 You have the story about Walt Disney. It's almost exactly the same as the 1104 01:22:17.760 --> 01:22:20.920 Chase Brandon's story, and that one we don't have as much evidence. But 1105 01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:25.760 the one the story was with Walt Disney that he was told to do a 1106 01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:29.359 documentary. He was offered all this film, so they put it out, 1107 01:22:29.479 --> 01:22:31.319 he starts doing the film, and then at the last minute, when he's 1108 01:22:31.359 --> 01:22:34.880 ready to do put the film in, they pulled the film back and the 1109 01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:40.560 war. Kimball told that story at amw fun conference. Yeah. And these 1110 01:22:42.119 --> 01:22:45.880 intelligence right or Air Force people who were telling him this. Yeah, And 1111 01:22:45.880 --> 01:22:49.079 according to Kimball, these Air Force people really did genuine believe or at least 1112 01:22:49.119 --> 01:22:54.399 told him they believe they had this UFO VIDI or film. Yeah. Well, 1113 01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:58.600 look at the whole Emmenegger and Sandlers stuff that was That's me is the 1114 01:22:58.720 --> 01:23:01.279 key story, and you follow is nineteen sixty nine. The US Air Force 1115 01:23:01.600 --> 01:23:04.680 is in the same position as the as the CIA is right now. This 1116 01:23:04.760 --> 01:23:09.119 is you know, we don't want this, it's takes away from our time. 1117 01:23:09.279 --> 01:23:12.159 We're not interested, and they're making this this statement. Oh no, 1118 01:23:12.279 --> 01:23:15.279 we're and they're out of the business in nineteen sixty nine, and Stanton was 1119 01:23:15.319 --> 01:23:19.319 around then. I was around just shortly after there, and Stanton can confirm 1120 01:23:19.399 --> 01:23:24.199 that in nineteen sixty nine there was no such thing as MG twelve and sa 1121 01:23:25.079 --> 01:23:28.359 CIA, all these rumored stories about them working. It was basically just the 1122 01:23:28.479 --> 01:23:30.239 US Air Force. And when the US Air Force got out of it in 1123 01:23:30.319 --> 01:23:34.119 nineteen sixty nine, it was game over. There was nothing about UFOs. 1124 01:23:34.119 --> 01:23:36.760 It was like, the government is not involved. And it's like in Canada 1125 01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:42.159 that we don't know he was running the UFOs in Canada and yet they shut 1126 01:23:42.159 --> 01:23:45.000 down the thing. They're not involved. It's like the CIA, it's a 1127 01:23:45.119 --> 01:23:47.720 nuisance to us. Why in nineteen seventy two do they go to Bob and 1128 01:23:47.880 --> 01:23:56.319 Emmenager and Alan Sandler and offer them the documentary film from the Pullman Air Force 1129 01:23:56.319 --> 01:23:59.720 Base, give them eight seconds to put in their documentary and actually give them 1130 01:23:59.760 --> 01:24:02.079 a film that they forgot to take back that they still have possession of a 1131 01:24:02.079 --> 01:24:05.600 top secret film that they have from nineteen seventy two that was given to them. 1132 01:24:06.279 --> 01:24:09.800 Why would you start the fire? I mean, it is like the 1133 01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:13.520 CIA. You put the stuff out, you give them the Haloman film, 1134 01:24:13.640 --> 01:24:15.800 and then at the last second you have pull it back, and then you 1135 01:24:15.840 --> 01:24:19.119 go to the company position, this is this is nonsense. We're not interested 1136 01:24:19.159 --> 01:24:23.359 in this, we've never been Go and refer to blue Book, and the 1137 01:24:23.439 --> 01:24:27.119 CIA says no, you go refer to the nineteen ninety seven study that we 1138 01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:30.119 did on UFOs and they go back to the company policy and say we're not 1139 01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:31.960 interested. And they keep dropping this stuff. And I say, they've done 1140 01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:36.000 it almost every second year for the last fifty sixty years. It happens over 1141 01:24:36.039 --> 01:24:40.079 and over again. Pull it, put it out, pull it back, 1142 01:24:40.359 --> 01:24:43.680 go to the company position, and these stories are getting out, and that 1143 01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:47.119 well, semmen Aker's story is the key story. Well, Emmenegger, I 1144 01:24:47.239 --> 01:24:50.640 was living in the LA area and he was the only one in somebody there 1145 01:24:50.720 --> 01:24:53.920 was an article he was going to be doing a movie. So I called 1146 01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.399 him the only one in the book. How can you do one without me? 1147 01:24:57.560 --> 01:25:00.359 So I met with him and Sandler and one of they mentioned they were 1148 01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:03.720 going to Soviet Union. I said, I've got a big report of Russian 1149 01:25:03.800 --> 01:25:05.920 UFO stuff. Oh, give it to us, we'll get it translated. 1150 01:25:05.960 --> 01:25:10.520 I'm saying, hey, we're not talking ten pages here. We're talking big, 1151 01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:14.119 that's all right. So I gave it to them and they got me 1152 01:25:14.359 --> 01:25:19.920 a big translation. It turned out using classified methods, apparently because they had 1153 01:25:19.960 --> 01:25:26.640 computer translation developed and nobody knew about it. Just Sandler had intelligence connections. 1154 01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:29.640 That's how they did that. They talk me no questions, and let me 1155 01:25:29.680 --> 01:25:32.800 give you another. When we were in Washington for that program UFO Cover Up 1156 01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:40.720 Live, I mentioned that I had the CIA, said I could appeal one 1157 01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:44.760 of the They turned me down on releasing some of that top secret CIA stuff, 1158 01:25:45.399 --> 01:25:50.399 So you can appeal if you want to appeal, called this number and 1159 01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:57.840 ask for let's say, Charles. So I'm telling this to Emmenegger while we're 1160 01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:03.319 sitting around in Washington there. He corrected me, Chris, not Charles Hell. 1161 01:26:03.399 --> 01:26:08.479 Did he know who the right guy was? And the key point of 1162 01:26:08.520 --> 01:26:13.199 this whole thing was Emmenigger. I know Emmenigger better than anybody in the UFO. 1163 01:26:13.399 --> 01:26:16.199 I've talked to him hundreds of times, and he told me he said 1164 01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:20.000 he was talking about the production when they were doing the actual production of UFO's 1165 01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:25.000 Past President Future in seventy four to seventy five, whenever it was they had 1166 01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:29.880 a CIA guy on the production set the entire time, and his name Jamie's. 1167 01:26:29.840 --> 01:26:31.000 The guy's name is Dick Betsky. And I said, well, what 1168 01:26:31.039 --> 01:26:32.720 was he doing on? What was he doing there? And he said, 1169 01:26:32.880 --> 01:26:34.840 I don't know, he just was there all the time. I don't know, 1170 01:26:34.880 --> 01:26:38.840 maybe Alan brought him in. I didn't really know talk to him or 1171 01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:41.640 but I know there was a CIA gaither the whole time. So here's the 1172 01:26:41.640 --> 01:26:44.640 CIA now saying we're not interested, we have nothing to do with this, 1173 01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:48.199 and over and over and over again that with the Falcon with Ammennager, they're 1174 01:26:48.239 --> 01:26:53.920 there, they're watching there, they're manipulating they I just don't believe they're not 1175 01:26:53.960 --> 01:26:58.399 interested, right, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Well, and the interesting 1176 01:26:58.439 --> 01:27:00.920 of course you've mentioned UFO cover Live, which came out in nineteen eighty eight. 1177 01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:06.119 We were talking about Dody and Falcon there. Richard Dody played Falcon, 1178 01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:10.800 and you know he was in the screen. If people haven't seen this, 1179 01:27:11.199 --> 01:27:13.800 I actually have it up on YouTube, the full thing. I was able 1180 01:27:13.800 --> 01:27:18.439 to find it on YouTube and people have been watching it. But yeah, 1181 01:27:18.479 --> 01:27:23.359 he's behind this screen and you just see this outline of Richard Dody's say, 1182 01:27:23.640 --> 01:27:26.760 I'm Falcon. And we had an alien, and he liked to eat strawberry 1183 01:27:26.800 --> 01:27:31.039 ice cream, the famous strawberry ice music. Well and so, and that's 1184 01:27:31.079 --> 01:27:35.239 the curious thing is at least Richard Dody was involved with getting out all of 1185 01:27:35.279 --> 01:27:40.800 this information before, assumably both because of the Soviet question. Of course, 1186 01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:44.279 Grant brings up other questions on his website as too, Was it more than 1187 01:27:44.279 --> 01:27:47.720 that? Is it the actual UFO material they're messing with here? And you 1188 01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:50.640 know, the question is was Dody working alone or a lot not? Was 1189 01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:56.560 he working with the CIA? Even the MJ twelve documents, which I know, 1190 01:27:57.079 --> 01:28:00.880 Stan, I've read your book. You believe at least the original documents 1191 01:28:00.000 --> 01:28:04.319 Jamie Shandera got out or the real deal. But according to Tim Good, 1192 01:28:04.319 --> 01:28:10.199 who also got these documents separately, he said he was working with He told 1193 01:28:10.359 --> 01:28:15.319 Richard Dolan he got them from people that were working not doty, but people 1194 01:28:15.399 --> 01:28:18.880 working with Dodie, is what he told Richard Dolan. Well, you know, 1195 01:28:18.960 --> 01:28:24.119 we should give about our websites. I'm just going to write down Grant's 1196 01:28:24.279 --> 01:28:30.000 and I you know, put it out loud. P com is mine? 1197 01:28:30.359 --> 01:28:34.319 Yep, what if it presidential UFO dot com? Okay, so he's got 1198 01:28:34.359 --> 01:28:39.520 a bunch of stories, lots of reading on all of this stuff on the 1199 01:28:39.520 --> 01:28:45.239 front page of his website. Of course, you can find it true h 1200 01:28:45.439 --> 01:28:48.720 Lee at huffingtonPost dot com and look for Lee Spiegel or go to Where's News. 1201 01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:53.239 Well also they can just also step to go to Lespiegel dot com. 1202 01:28:53.319 --> 01:28:59.399 Oh that's right, and go to Stanton Friedman dot com. That's why Stanton 1203 01:28:59.399 --> 01:29:04.640 and I have the same web master dot com. Right, So we have 1204 01:29:04.760 --> 01:29:10.000 a few a couple of minutes here are there we I think we've covered it 1205 01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:14.159 a lot here. This has been wonderful, but let's get maybe. I'm 1206 01:29:14.199 --> 01:29:15.800 sure everybody I was going to say, does anybody have any closing thoughts? 1207 01:29:15.800 --> 01:29:18.479 I'm sure everybody does, And I think we've got time if you can spend 1208 01:29:18.479 --> 01:29:21.279 a minute, and you did you want to start, Lee? Yeah, 1209 01:29:21.359 --> 01:29:28.159 I want. I want to say that you know if when when when Chase 1210 01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:31.840 Brandon came out with his story, h and everybody started talking about Roswell this 1211 01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:38.880 and Roswell had it made me think that that none of this would have caused 1212 01:29:39.279 --> 01:29:45.399 any kind of controversy whatsoever if it hadn't been for Stan Friedman. Stan, 1213 01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:50.960 it's all your fault. This everybody else is, you know, in the 1214 01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:57.079 way, in the way that George Knapp put the phrase area fifty one on 1215 01:29:57.119 --> 01:30:00.680 the lips of Americans. Stan Friedman did this same thing with Roswell, and 1216 01:30:00.760 --> 01:30:05.399 nobody can ever take that away from him. And I admire you for that 1217 01:30:05.520 --> 01:30:11.680 stand. And all the people that have come after you, all the research, 1218 01:30:11.800 --> 01:30:16.520 all their books, all the criticisms, they can't touch the fact that 1219 01:30:16.840 --> 01:30:21.000 you were the first person who dug the information out and wanted to share it 1220 01:30:21.039 --> 01:30:26.399 with the world. And I think that earns everybody's respect. Well, I 1221 01:30:26.439 --> 01:30:30.680 appreciate that very much. Let me mention one thing. The MUFON conference is 1222 01:30:30.720 --> 01:30:35.680 coming up in Cincinnati August, the second, third, fourth, I guess 1223 01:30:35.680 --> 01:30:41.640 it is the third, fourth, and fifth, and it'll be interesting to 1224 01:30:41.680 --> 01:30:46.920 see what happens there. There's supposedly some big stories coming out blockbusters. Yeah, 1225 01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:51.840 and I don't know what they are, but maybe Chase Brandon will work 1226 01:30:51.880 --> 01:30:57.159 in this. And one little comment that really struck me as a coincidence. 1227 01:30:57.560 --> 01:31:01.880 The producer of my movie UFOs are real way back in seventy nine. But 1228 01:31:02.119 --> 01:31:10.439 Brandon Chase, Oh really, yes, really that is of money. Weird. 1229 01:31:10.840 --> 01:31:13.640 That was my first thought. I said, somebody playing games here. 1230 01:31:13.720 --> 01:31:17.920 You know, what is it? Somebody playing games? That's a good segue 1231 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:25.119 to Grant Well. To me, I see the story as just an extension 1232 01:31:25.159 --> 01:31:29.159 of stories I've done for years and years and years, this sort of gradual 1233 01:31:29.159 --> 01:31:33.319 disclosure that they want to stuff out. They have to control the cover up 1234 01:31:33.319 --> 01:31:39.319 because they can't allow somebody to get an actual piece of material from that rosweld 1235 01:31:39.359 --> 01:31:43.239 box and run with it, because then the New York Times Washington Post suddenly 1236 01:31:43.239 --> 01:31:46.760 realized they've been had, and suddenly they see themselves as being dragged through the 1237 01:31:46.760 --> 01:31:51.079 streets like Gaddafi by you know, a mob. They just don't want that, 1238 01:31:51.520 --> 01:31:57.520 but they want to stuff out. And I that's my inside belief substantiated. 1239 01:31:57.560 --> 01:32:00.960 I think by GOT twenty thirty cases, the substantial that there are people 1240 01:32:00.039 --> 01:32:04.159 up there who want this out. They but they want they want parts of 1241 01:32:04.159 --> 01:32:08.159 it out. They wanted to get out the idea that MJ twelve existed, 1242 01:32:08.560 --> 01:32:11.720 the fact that Roswell is for real, all this kind of stuff, and 1243 01:32:12.039 --> 01:32:15.720 a lot of this is just playing games and fiction. And I really think 1244 01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:18.439 this will just sort of fade away like all the other stories, like the 1245 01:32:18.720 --> 01:32:23.840 Corso story, and everybody will will go on to the next story. I 1246 01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:27.960 just hope that people keep, especially leave because he's in contact. Keep Brandon 1247 01:32:28.039 --> 01:32:32.760 talking because I think he's talking. He because he works for the CIA. 1248 01:32:32.800 --> 01:32:36.920 It means more to me than just some guy who happened to wants work for 1249 01:32:36.960 --> 01:32:43.199 an agency. I log everything that he says. I transcribe everything he says 1250 01:32:43.319 --> 01:32:45.439 because I find very important things in what he's saying. So I hopefully keeps 1251 01:32:45.439 --> 01:32:49.239 them talking. Hope he keeps saying stuff because I think we're learning from this 1252 01:32:49.319 --> 01:32:53.279 guy. You know, I think basically, I think he's telling the truth. 1253 01:32:53.439 --> 01:32:56.640 It's just just got all this kind of fiction stuff that you got to 1254 01:32:56.680 --> 01:33:00.600 weed through to get to get to what's actually going on. Well, yesterday 1255 01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:02.720 he told me that because I suggested it. I said, look, as 1256 01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:08.600 this all develops, if you feel like you want to now make some statements 1257 01:33:08.600 --> 01:33:13.119 of your own just to kind of respond to what's what's coming down here by 1258 01:33:13.199 --> 01:33:15.840 everybody in the UFO community, I said, give me a call, let's 1259 01:33:15.840 --> 01:33:18.680 talk about it, and we'll do another story, but it will be your 1260 01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:24.800 statement of how you want to respond to all the stuff that's happening right now. 1261 01:33:25.079 --> 01:33:28.199 So that's that's where we left it, can I ask a Leah question. 1262 01:33:28.880 --> 01:33:31.119 Yes, I watched your fan website as this thing was going, and 1263 01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:35.880 I watched how many comments and how many Facebook shares there was, And I 1264 01:33:35.920 --> 01:33:40.039 would just like to know how many people you figure read this article. It 1265 01:33:40.119 --> 01:33:45.119 must have been unreal so far up to about one and a half million page 1266 01:33:45.199 --> 01:33:49.640 hints. Unbelievable and and you know it's something like what four thousand comments now? 1267 01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:54.920 And I have to tell you, I am I am so sick of 1268 01:33:55.079 --> 01:34:00.640 these armchair critics who just sit there and nobody does any real legwork out there, 1269 01:34:00.680 --> 01:34:04.520 and they think that it's okay for them to just comment on one thing 1270 01:34:04.600 --> 01:34:09.520 or another when they have no idea what they're talking about. H And I 1271 01:34:09.600 --> 01:34:12.239 basically would like to say to all of them, I want to shake them 1272 01:34:12.239 --> 01:34:15.199 all up and say, listens, if you haven't done any personal legwork, 1273 01:34:15.439 --> 01:34:19.319 if you haven't gone up there, lifted the phone and done even one interview 1274 01:34:19.399 --> 01:34:26.760 with anybody, then your opinion is not valid. It's not based on anything 1275 01:34:26.840 --> 01:34:30.399 real, and and you should pretty much, you know, shut up or 1276 01:34:30.520 --> 01:34:33.119 put up. You want to be part of this conversation, then then do 1277 01:34:33.199 --> 01:34:36.199 something about it. Don't just leave it up to all of us who are 1278 01:34:36.199 --> 01:34:40.800 trying to do something. Everybody's got to work on this, that's my opinion, 1279 01:34:41.680 --> 01:34:45.560 right on, right, all right, Thank you guys so much for 1280 01:34:45.640 --> 01:34:50.319 being on the show and spending time with us, for having us. Thank 1281 01:34:50.319 --> 01:34:56.479 you, al Andro, I guys, all right, that was a lot 1282 01:34:56.560 --> 01:35:00.600 of fun. Thank you very much to my guest Lisepiego grand Ca and the 1283 01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:05.720 Venerable Stanton Redman. So what a wonderful chance to be able to talk to 1284 01:35:05.760 --> 01:35:12.119 all of those guys about a very intriguing and important development in the field of 1285 01:35:12.199 --> 01:35:16.600 euphology. I gotta tell you. Grant did send me an update that Chase 1286 01:35:16.640 --> 01:35:21.239 Brandon did do some BBC interviews that he was able to get and Chase did 1287 01:35:21.359 --> 01:35:27.359 say there was nothing UFO related removed from his books by the CIA, So 1288 01:35:27.439 --> 01:35:30.119 we did confirm that question that we had out standing from the show. But 1289 01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:34.279 still Grant has some very compelling arguments I think there. So what's really going 1290 01:35:34.319 --> 01:35:38.520 on? I don't know, Will we ever know? I don't know, 1291 01:35:38.560 --> 01:35:42.840 I hope, so we'll keep working on it though. I know all of 1292 01:35:42.840 --> 01:35:46.560 my guests and myself you to work on it. And thank you all again 1293 01:35:46.760 --> 01:35:53.560 for joining us on UFO Think Tank. Radio. Remember because I love you. 1294 01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:59.279 You can get twenty twenty five percent off of the Cosmic Exploration Conference. 1295 01:36:00.199 --> 01:36:04.159 Just use the code U T T uppercase U T T when you register. 1296 01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:09.159 You can find that at ufodailynews dot com. There's a link at the top 1297 01:36:09.199 --> 01:36:14.520 for the conference or cosmic ex dot com to find the conference. All of 1298 01:36:14.560 --> 01:36:19.279 this information you'll find at UFO Daily News. Thank you all so much for 1299 01:36:19.359 --> 01:36:25.399 joining me once again, and I'll be talking to you next week. Adio Smootato