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Welcome to this edition of The High
Strangest Factor, copyrighted on the Paranormal UK

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Radio Network. I am your host
Steve Ward. On The High Strangest Factor.

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Andy Mercer and I have explored all
aspects of the paranormal and unexplained for

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the past several years. We have
been privileged to have been able to speak

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to many individuals that represent different viewpoints
and have done research and investigations in many

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fascinating areas. Addie Mercer can't be
with us tonight, but our regular guest

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co host Brandy is with us.
Brandy, Welcome to The High Strangeness Factor.

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Thank you so much. It's so
fun to be back. Well,

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it's just gonna be fun because we
have a great guest and we I'm going

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to warn people that the name John
Keel might come up a few times in

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the next hour or so, or
however long it takes. So h have

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you been reading anything interesting lately,
Brandy? Any I know you're you're reading

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like a million books like most of
us do, but is there anything that's

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really caught your interest? I am
reading a million books. I have a

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couple of David Weatherley books. He's
got a series of Wood Knox books,

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and I've been reading a couple of
those, so that's that's the most recent

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anyway. Those are always good,
excellent, And I I'm reading so many

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book that I just picked up one
of the Missing four one one books I

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know I had started, and I'm
going in there. I'm seeing all these

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copious notes I've written in the margins
and everything, and I don't remember writing

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one of them. So I'm not
sure what that says about me. But

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Okay, now all I have to
do is find our guests intro here,

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which I had a moment. Ah, there it is. That's good.

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I'm not the best vamper in the
world, you know what I mean?

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Okay. Paul Bestel is the host
of the Mysteries and Monstrous podcast. Over

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the last five years, Paul has
spoken to some of the world's leading researchers

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across all manner of forty on topics
with interest in all aspects of the strange.

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Paul continues to expand both his own
and the audience's knowledge with each show.

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Paul, Welcome to the High Strangeness
Factor. Thank you very much both

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of here to you, and thank
you again for the invitation. It's very

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kind. Well, it's my pleasure. I had a great time on your

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show not too long ago, and
I guess, you know, I wonder

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you know, we all have a
pathway that we took to get here to

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be doing shows like this and reading
books like this and having crazy conversations about

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oh, I don't know, altraterrestrials, cryptids and strange lights in the sky.

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How did your interest start, Paul? Were you have you been an

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experiencer or were you just kind of
led because of the fascinations of the subject.

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And I grew up in a haunted
house as a child. We lived

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my parents' first house was a converted
vicarage in a little village outside of Barnsley

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in South Yorkshire, which was built
in seventeen forty eight, and it had

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been split into three houses, and
it was directly across the road from the

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graveyard in the church, and and
we had something in there. We had

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a couple of things. We had
an old chap that used to sit at

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the end of my bed and talk
to me most nights, and then we

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had something else that lived in the
rest of the house that used to sort

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of drop things out there out the
ceiling and walk up and down the stairs

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all the time and move stuff about
and things. So it was always a

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good test of babysitters. I'll say
that guys growing up, because if they

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came back, they were made of
stern and stuff than most. Well,

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how old were you when this when
you started to notice this? Four or

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five? I live. We lived
there for about five years. So my

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brother is five years younger than me, and he was he was born whilst

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we lived in the house, So
yeah, we were very early, sort

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of toddlers, young people, sort
of Yeah, five, six, seven,

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eight years old? What kind of
things? Did the jet that sat

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on the edge of your bed stay
to you? And apparently he used to

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tell me about history a lot and
talk to me every night about the First

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World War and history and geography in
Europe, and we used to talk about

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countries and ghosts, and he used
to tell me about films. I can't

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be very specific because it's it happened
because other people heard me speaking and I

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would tell them about it and who
it was. So it wasn't like an

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imaginary friend because it was only in
my bedroom and it was only at night,

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and I would have full born conversations
with this person until I dropped off.

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Wow. Wow, I can't even
imagine. I was the kid that

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would it when my dad finished the
attic upstairs and that became my bedroom,

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and I was, you know,
I wasn't you being up there alone?

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So I, of course every kid
knows that covers are magical and protect you

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from monsters. But so I had
the covers over me, but I had

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to leave a bit of a breathe
hole so that I could survive through the

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night. So yeah, if if
somebody started sitting on the edge of my

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bed telling me about world were one
or two, I don't know what the

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heck I would have done. Yeah. I think that's the thing about kids

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is they take things really sort of
with the straight back, don't they.

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They seem they seem quite easy to
accept these strange things, because in the

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normal situation you'd be quite perturbed.
I suspect, but we had a spooky

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family. I mean, my grandmother
was a was a white witch and a

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psychic who did readings and was very
well connected with the British psychical society at

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that particular time. And obviously now
I know that Doris Stokes visited her.

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Who I didn't I had no idea
who she was when I was seven,

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who was sort of Britain's leading psychic
for the best part of thirty or forty

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years until she passed away, And
then when we moved and unfortunately the ghosts

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didn't come with us. My auntie
who was a landlady who used to run

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pubs in the in the Northwest,
they had a poltergeist outbreak at one of

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their pubs, which was phenomenal.
What happened well, Fred as they called

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him, was very good at sort
of tidying up. He would always sort

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of put the chairs back under tables
and he'd move things around the bar area.

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One of the best incidents that my
cousin told me about was that she

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was once talking to one of the
staff in the kitchen and the phone was

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picked up because it was a phone, one of the old rotary dial phones

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that was fixed to the wall,
and the handle was taken up and the

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phone started dancing around like a snake
sort of in the air in front of

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both of them, and the member
of staff screamed. My cousin was just

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like, oh my god, this
is amazing, and then the handle just

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dropped to the floor with the clatter
and it was that kind of thing,

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the you know, the doors would
close by themselves, the dogs would just

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sort of walk along. I remember
walking past once and one of the dogs.

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They used to have black labradors.
My auntie used to breed black labradors,

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so there was there was always at
least two labradors in the house at

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any given time. And I remember
walking past my cousin's room once and one

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of the dogs was laid on the
bed and you could see her fur moving

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because she was being stroll and next
next and next to where she was was

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an indentation of obviously where someone's bottom
was when they were sat down. And

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as I was watching, the stroking
stopped and the indentation rose up, and

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then the bed was back to normal, and the dog was kind of looking

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around wondering why the stroking had stopped. Oh no, thank you, no,

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thank you. I guess hearted places
and Portuguese phenomena isn't terribly uncommon in

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the UK. I mean, well, a lot of the you know,

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we're very impressed when we see the
date on the building going back two or

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three hundred years. When I was
over there, I saw dates on buildings

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back to the twelve hundreds, so
that's a long time to gather up classic

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countings. I think absolutely well.
I work in town, well in the

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city in Sheffield, and my local
pub is called the Queen's Head, which

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dates back to the fifteenth century.
Oh my gosh, that is amazing.

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And it's a very rickety old jewdor
building. It's beautiful and it's obviously also

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haunted. Have you witnessed anything there? I haven't, but it's got a

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very long history. It's got a
haunted ladies toilet. Oh no, that's

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comforting. It's comforting for the man, that's for sure. Absolutely where the

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doors rattle and you can hear them
clanging even though there's nobody in. And

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it's not the size of a it's
not the size of a bathroom that people

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can get in and out of without
somebody seeing it. You know, you've

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got your eye lines always on the
area, so people can't sort of run

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in and pull a prank. But
they also used to be an old man

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who would sit in the corner with
the pints of beer that the cleaners would

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often see on a morning, and
then it was one of them. You'd

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go hang on a minute, and
he turned around and he wouldn't be there,

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So that's that they're going back to
sort of the at least sixty or

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seventy years those reports have been going
on in that particular location. Have you,

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I'm sorry, I just wondered if
you've noticed, Paul, if the

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same people are the ones that witness
this, or if pretty much anybody and

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everybody has witnessed in this pub or
in any other I think after and when

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it when it comes to things like
that, it's all down to the person

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who can experience these things, because
I'm a big believer that only specific people

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seem to have experiences for whatever reason. I don't know why that is.

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I've always been fascinated by sightings where
there's a group of people and only two

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or three people know it's something strange, which which kind of suggests that there's

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something about certain people that they pick
up on things that the general populace don't.

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But I think because both of those
things have gone on for so long,

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numerous different people have reported them over
the years, so it's not the

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same people seeing the same things,
it's it's multiple witnesses over a considerable length

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of time. You know, I
wonder if freg has a what eight hundred

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number, because I could really use
some cleaning and straightening here, you know.

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Yeah, yeah, So I was
basically born into it, Steve,

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essentially, and I had I had
very sort of open minded parents who kind

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of encouraged my love of ghosts and
nessy and horror films at an early age.

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So I was I was very well
versed with it, and I kind

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of lost my way in my late
teens early twenties, shall we say,

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And I came back to the fold
towards my thirties, and I've been building

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up courage to dip my foot in
the world of podcasting. Essentially, my

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brother had bullied me for the best
part of six years to do one,

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Steve. Oh great, Well,
you know it's great that you know that

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you say that your parents encouraged it
because some of the experiences you had as

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a child. Other people that have
had them their parents who would ignore them

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or say you're imagining things, or
it's an imaginary friend, don't talk about

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it. But you didn't have any
fear of that because of their support.

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Absolutely. Well, I've always had
a foot in two chems because my stepfather

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was a doctor of chemistry and obviously
my mum considered her self descended from witches,

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so basically I was. I was
astride the skeptical non skeptical argument throughout

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all my childhood growing up. So
my stepfather was very dismissive of such things,

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but was also encouraged by the fact
that it meant I read a lot,

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which I suppose kept me quiet,
which is always a bonus. Well,

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he might not want to encourage it. It just he just pushed a

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new book under my nose. What
part of the UK? You win?

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I live in South Yorkshire, part
of the Greater County of Yorkshire, the

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greatest county in England. Okay,
I know. Uh Paul Sinclair has written

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a lot about eastern and northern Yorkshire
and uh yeah, here's his research is

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as fascinating. And have you met
the gentleman yourself. I've actually been out

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for for a few hours over on
Benton with Paul. I spent a birst

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part with him. I've got to
know Paul primary through doing the show and

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got on like a house on fire
because we kind of grew up. He

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grew up on the opposite side of
where I grew up, so we're from

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a similar location. Then obviously he's
moved out to East Yorkshire in Bridlington where

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he's now based, right, and
so we've got to know each other.

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We've got on really well. And
then a couple of years ago I kind

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of said, hey, I've got
a couple of days off will you be

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around? Is it all right if
I come home for a bit? And

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him and Bob took me out onto
Benton Cliffs and we we had about three

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hours out there just looking out and
checking things and going around a few of

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the locations. It was. It
was fabulous. So yeah, oh that

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would be great. You know when
when you're reading Paul's books, you feel

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like you're right there with them on
the edge of the cliffs, and and

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you know he interviews all he's got
a great way with people. And have

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you seen his his documentary wolf Lands. Absolutely I've got everything, Paul.

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I've got all four Truth book books. I've got The Night People, and

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I've also got a copy of Wolfland. So absolutely I've read the four Truth

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Truth Proof books. And that is
the truth that leaves no proof, not

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easy to day. And I'm almost
done with Night People, and my god,

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he took a departure when he was
between three and four, and it

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just just talks about starting with his
childhood into adulthood of the you know,

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he had just bizarre experiences and I
encourage everybody to get a hold of his

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books. Don't go to Amazon or
eBay because third party pirates are selling them

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there. You can find Paul's link. I don't have it right here offhand,

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but you can. You can order
them directly from him from the UK.

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Might pay a couple bucks in shipping, but you're going to pay reasonable

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prices for the books and they are
just absolutely fascinating. Yeah, he's he's

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a stellar researcher and he's a really
down to earth person. He's he's a

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really great guy. He's been very
supportive because he's been on the show several

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times, and like I say,
he's very open about his experiences. True,

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as you were saying about the departure
that he made with The Night People,

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I know when were we I did
an episode with him about it,

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and I just said to him,
I think he'd being very brave because it's

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it's one thing talking about going out
and dealing with anomalous phenomena and interviewing other

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people. But I think The Night
People is such a raw portrayal of childhood.

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Anyway, regardless of the strange things
going on, Steve that I just

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thought he was really brave coming forward
to to lay himself baar like that person

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and you can tell some of the
experiences he was having a rough time sharing,

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but he you know, he did
it anyway, I think because he

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knows that other people are have experienced
things like this and they feel very alone.

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So people like like Paul and yourself
that come out and now me,

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00:16:56,159 --> 00:16:59,000
I don't. I don't experience anything, you know, just to speakers,

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So I can't. I can't share
experiences with anybody unless I make them up.

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But he's, uh yeah, it's
and the one thing I want to

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00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,400
tell people. Uh we won't talk
about it. But if you get a

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00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,480
hold of The Night people, pay
attention to the chapter about mister and missus

214
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:22,160
tick. That's t I c k
that. That is the creepiest, the

215
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,119
creepiest thing I have ever read.
Yeah, I mean, Brundy, if

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00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,839
you have aaron, had any strange
experiences or are you like Steve quantfution that

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00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:36,039
you you sound like you probably don't
want one anyway, I'm not, you

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00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:44,279
know, I wouldn't mind something exciting, or maybe somebody to smile at me,

219
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,839
you know, or something. But
I don't need any creepy shadow people

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00:17:49,079 --> 00:17:55,119
while I'm trying to sleep or anything
like that. The most I can say

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is probably I've heard things at my
place of employment before. We had doors

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that would slam. I worked at
night sometimes, and this stuff only happened

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when nobody else was there, or
you know, when when only a couple

224
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,160
of people were there. It would
never happen during the day or anything like

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that. So that's that's the best
I can I can say, And that's

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00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:30,079
fine. You did pick up you
were you were someplace once and you there

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00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:33,119
were a group of ladies there,
and didn't you suddenly know their names or

228
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,839
a lot about them? I did. I did. We were actually it

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was on a haunted tour of this
old town, and so we had already

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finished the tour and we were in
the last location, and the whole time

231
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there were there was this woman there, and I swore I knew her,

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and I could not figure out.
I was trying the time to figure out

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how I knew her. And this
place that we were at was not where

234
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I lived. I was out of
town at this at this thing, and

235
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:15,799
so like, my impulse was so
strong that after it finished, she and

236
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,759
the ladies she was with went into
the restroom, and so I followed them

237
00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:26,160
into the restroom and I said,
do you know me. I've just you

238
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know, I've been trying to figure
out how I know you. And to

239
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,119
make a long story short, you
know, I said, I think you're

240
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:38,240
you know, your name is Jan
or Jean or something, and she said,

241
00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:45,319
well, I'm Jan, and my
sister's Jean, and my other sisters

242
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,680
Jen. And she had never been
in the you know, to the town

243
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,720
that I lived in. She'd never
been to this ghost tour before. You

244
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:59,920
know, there was basically no way
that she could think of of how we

245
00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,640
had all met. But I just
had this feeling that I knew her,

246
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,319
and I had a vision of them. I guess not a vision, but

247
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,799
I don't know what else to call
it, but I almost a memory of

248
00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:15,000
her signing her name, which is
why I thought I knew what it was.

249
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,160
Yeah, I had forgotten about that, Steve, Yeah, that's that's

250
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:27,039
pretty cool. I had the one
episode that I won't I won't repeat in

251
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,559
detail, but I Paul I might
have mentioned on your show. I don't

252
00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:34,160
know. But I went out to
the T interior T and T area along

253
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,599
one night, which of course is
the area where Mothman was seen back in

254
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,160
sixty six north about nine miles north
of Point Pleasant. I came back to

255
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:47,880
my hotel room and I opened the
door. The TV set turned down by

256
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,440
itself and started flipping steadily through stations. And my first thought was, No,

257
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,839
this doesn't happen to me. This
happens to other people, and they

258
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,079
tell me about it, so that
it's actually a longer story. But so

259
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,599
that's it for me. That's that's, that's it. But uh, which

260
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,039
I was probably fine because I'm the
kid. That was. When I was

261
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,119
hiding under the covers, I'd hear
the uh the heat duct, you know,

262
00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:15,200
when the heat turned off, it
would expand or contract, and I

263
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,880
probably thought it were footsteps of some
kind of a critter up there, although

264
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:25,440
I will say that years later,
uh, my sister was still living at

265
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,519
home and she was living up there, and uh, one one day she

266
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,279
was drying her hair with a hair
dryer and she shot thought she saw this

267
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,480
mist up by the uh the light
fixture, and she just thought it was

268
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:44,039
condensation or something like that. But
then the dog came up, stared right

269
00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:48,640
at it and started growling. She
got the hell out of there. My

270
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,680
dad died in that house, so
you know, she didn't know what to

271
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,039
think. But that was the that
was the only time something like that happened.

272
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And so whatever whatever. I'd stay
at my mom's house and I was

273
00:21:57,799 --> 00:22:02,559
sleeping up there in that bed.
I'd be looking around suspiciously just in case,

274
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:04,440
you know, helping, hoping it
was just a heat dot. You

275
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:11,440
know, always better to be safe
than sorry, Steve. So what what

276
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,519
what happened in the when you got
hit your thirties where you know, I

277
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:18,359
think I remember being very I was
got into UFOs as a as a young

278
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,319
guy in junior high school, and
it just seemed like there was a lot

279
00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:26,519
of infighting and people nobody was making
any headway. So there were a few

280
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:30,680
times when I kind of drifted away. But you know, it's it's always

281
00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:33,960
it was. It's probably in my
jeenes or whatever. I was always pulled

282
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:40,119
back somehow. What was it that
brought you back into this realm? I

283
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,119
think? And I just kind of
settled down. I'd continue to read the

284
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,519
forteen times throughout this period from the
mid nineties, and I was a massive

285
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,480
X Files fan, so I wasn't
completely out of it, but I wasn't

286
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,359
reading as much to the level that
I had as a as a child,

287
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:03,119
as as as often happens when you
become a teenager and you discover the opposite

288
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,400
sex and going out and concerts and
things like that, your time tends to

289
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:15,079
fill up with other things, sadly, So it was a strange period because

290
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,720
I wasn't sort of immersed in it
as much as I was. And then

291
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:25,960
I think I just really started opening
myself back up to the fact that I

292
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:30,319
really did enjoy these subjects. I
found them fascinating, and it was about

293
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:34,680
that point I started to buy the
Odd Book now and again. Obviously these

294
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:44,200
days it's the Odd Book every week, as my creaking shelves will testify to,

295
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,759
and so I just kind of carried
on reading the fourteen times. Obviously,

296
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:52,920
cable TV exploded over here in the
nineties as well, late nineties,

297
00:23:52,319 --> 00:24:00,720
and so I was delighted to discover
programs like Sightings, Exit for Exit and

298
00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:03,839
some of the great cases that they
covered and some of the researchers. So

299
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,480
whilst I wasn't completely immersed in it, I kind of kept into it,

300
00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:11,680
and then sort of, I don't
know, after I s going to the

301
00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:17,119
early thirties, I just really started
to get interested in it and kind of

302
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,160
realized that I was interested in more
than just the paranormal and neufology. And

303
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,200
like you say, Steve, i'd
seen all that in the nineties and all

304
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:29,200
the infighting and everybody going on about
Roswell again and again and again, and

305
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,599
I thought, right, and then
you know, strange little things. I

306
00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:34,079
mean, ironically, we're having a
conversation today on March thirteenth, it's the

307
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:41,759
twenty seventh anniversary of the Phoenix Lights
incident. And so things like that always

308
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:45,279
appeared on my radar, pardon the
pun, unlike the US Air Force.

309
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:51,720
And so I just started to sort
of open up and read more and get

310
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,200
in and start getting books. And
then things like Amazon appeared and social media,

311
00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:00,680
I think, and I think that
opened me up because not a lot

312
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:06,920
of my friends were into these things, Steve, and I think as time's

313
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:12,200
gone on, prior to getting into
doing what I do these days, obviously

314
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:18,680
I discovered my brother introduced me to
podcasts about two thousand and nine, twenty

315
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,200
ten, and so that's when it
really start. The bug really bit me

316
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,119
then, because then I was listening
to loads of shows in America. I've

317
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:32,480
been on holiday in America once as
well, and I remember I had the

318
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,759
Internet fairly early here in the UK, sort of about ninety eight I think.

319
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:44,359
And so I remember one Saturday lunchtime
stumbling across this weird station from America

320
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,920
called Coast to Coast and there was
a gentleman on there called Art Belt talking

321
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:55,000
to somebody about the men in Black, and I thought, Wow, what

322
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,960
is going on here? Who are
these people calling in where it's wrong with

323
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,039
them? I just thought, this
is just amazing. And then I happened

324
00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:08,279
to be lucky, lucky enough to
be in the States in Halloween two thousand

325
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:11,720
and four, and the place we
were staying in had a radio, and

326
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:15,000
so I was able to listen to
Coast to Coast for two weeks and annoyed

327
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:22,359
everybody I was on holiday with.
It's important to do that, especially,

328
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,440
It's okay if you annoy Americans.
They need to be all fellow Britts who

329
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:33,319
thought all stuff and nonsense. Whereas
I was just loving listening to Art Bell

330
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,079
talks to a wide variety of characters
of varying grips on reality. I think

331
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,880
Halloween, he not only does coast
to coast, but he does ghost to

332
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:48,119
ghost, right, and people call
in with their ghost stories. Yeah yeah,

333
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,440
I mean, somebody's very kindly because
I subscribed to the art Bell Projects

334
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:59,799
patron and so somebody's uploaded about six
hundred episodes that I did, and there's

335
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,599
I love the ghost of Ghost ones. They are amazing because there's some incredible

336
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,640
stories. I mean, there's some
absolute nonsense and you get the odd weirdo

337
00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:11,920
trying to tell a joke, which
I never had time for. But some

338
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:17,920
of the ghost of Ghost experiences are
absolutely chilling, some of them. And

339
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:22,160
it's fascinating when you have especially when
you consider how many people listen to art

340
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,440
show. That people would call from
all over the place. You know,

341
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,000
you get calls from Hawaii and Alaska
and Alabama and New York and Missouri and

342
00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:36,440
Kansas, and then you get a
call from Oregon and stuff. It was

343
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,200
just amazing to see that how big
the United States and Canada were. People

344
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,039
were having strange experiences all over the
place. It was wonderful, and they

345
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:49,720
would have he would have the Ghost
Investigation Society on that was Utah that would

346
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:56,039
capture They caught some of the best
clearest EVPs that I've ever heard. And

347
00:27:56,079 --> 00:28:00,640
man, you know Paul and Brandy. For a while, I wouldn't listen

348
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:12,440
to an e VP show at night. Yeah, Brenda was Brendan and it

349
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:17,440
was it was it was Brendan Cook
and I can't remember the lady's name,

350
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:21,839
but they were. They were.
That was so entertaining and uh and and

351
00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:26,480
and and fascinating. But uh uh
yeah he uh yeah, he was great.

352
00:28:26,519 --> 00:28:33,000
And you know the uh early early
revelations of the Skinwalker Ranch when Colin

353
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:36,680
Keller, her And and George and
Knapp would come on and you get these

354
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:40,480
catalyzing stories. And I man,
when that book hit the the hut for

355
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:42,400
the Skinwalker hit the stands, man, they was in my hot little hands

356
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:48,640
in no time. Absolutely, there
was some some some amazing stuff. Like

357
00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:51,640
I mean, it's funny because I
often listened to the e VP shows he

358
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,359
did because I listened to podcasts to
fall to sleep to Steve, which is

359
00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:00,559
no which is no criticism on on
the shows. I just like to drift

360
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:03,240
off to him, and I listened
to those a lot as I'm drifting off

361
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:06,759
to sleep. So I don't know. Maybe maybe ghostly voices helped me.

362
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,240
I'm not sure. Do you remember
Paul the episode with I think it was

363
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:17,319
Rodney and Everett. Rodney had supposedly
captured Everett a ghost in a bug zapper

364
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,000
or something like that, and and
he was he was kind of beside himself

365
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:26,440
because his wife was off at some
new age thing and he's alone in the

366
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,599
house. Was he claimed he claimed
he had captured Everett, who seemed to

367
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,920
be a little bit perturbed that he
was trapped. You know, it's even

368
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:40,920
true. There were so many gray
ones, I mean mouths hole. Oh

369
00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:48,799
yes, absolutely yeah. So so
what what was your what was your path?

370
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:55,519
You can you can keep laughing.
Uh. Now, for for me,

371
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,599
I started out with UFOs. I
mean, we had that flap in

372
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,079
Michigan in March nineteen sixty six.
Doctor Heine came down, we had the

373
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,079
you know, he declared some of
them swamp gas, and the swamp gas

374
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,799
jokes have lasted forever. So that
was what started me. And then the

375
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:17,079
following November sixty six, the first
major signing of the Mothman went all over

376
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:22,000
the world. So, and you
know I've told people this before, I

377
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,319
would buy Fate Magazine for the UFO
report. I had no patience for the

378
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:32,920
articles on ghosts or anything else.
So Paul, I'm confessing this. I

379
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,519
would cut the UFO article out of
Fate Magazine. I would take the front

380
00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:41,720
cover off and the back cover and
staple it together. I had a collection

381
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:48,000
of the thinnest Fate magazines in existence. I did reform, and I have

382
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:53,480
recaptured most of those that I have
a pretty decent collection of Fate magazines now,

383
00:30:53,759 --> 00:31:00,279
and I'm over the horrible malady that
caused me to cut out all those

384
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:04,799
other articles I've got. I've got
a handful of Faiths because they're really hard

385
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:10,400
to get old hole here, but
I've got i think fourteen times now,

386
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,000
I've got a thirty five year run. Oh yeah, oh boy, that's

387
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:18,279
yeah. I've only got a handful
of those, uh, very very high

388
00:31:18,359 --> 00:31:22,279
quality magazine. Yeah, and that's
why I'm ringing out of room, Steve,

389
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:29,319
because I don't got anything out.
Well, when you've got three hundred

390
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:33,319
and sixty issues, it adds it's
a lot of room, Steve. Well,

391
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,559
yeah, well, it's it's a
good thing not to cut things out.

392
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,559
I think. So did did you
what what was your path were you?

393
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,119
Was it ghosts first? And then
did you branched out into other areas.

394
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:48,160
I've always been really interesting. I
mean, we were very lucky here

395
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,079
in the UK. We had a
series of children's books that came out in

396
00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:57,680
the late seventies from Osborne and they
did three sort of seminal books. There

397
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:06,720
was Ghosts, UFOs and monsters,
and that was the first experience I had

398
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:10,599
had of the creature known as Bigfoot, because obviously we only knew about the

399
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:17,640
Yetti really here, and so those
three books introduced me to cases i'd never

400
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,079
sort of read or heard of.
I mean, obviously, at the same

401
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:24,960
time, we also had two major
cases happening here in the UK. We

402
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,640
had the Enfield Poltergeist, which was
widely reported in newspapers over here in the

403
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:37,559
UK, and obviously nineteen eighty three
was when rendallsham broke. The story was

404
00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:42,640
published three years after the events,
so I'd always kind of really interested in

405
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,839
all of that. And then obviously
we had another seminal TV show here called

406
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,119
Art C. Clark, which was
the first time I ever saw the Patterson

407
00:32:51,119 --> 00:32:57,559
Gimlin footage when I was nine,
I think eight or nine, and I

408
00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:04,200
didn't realize forty years on just how
much that film would ingrain itself into me,

409
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:08,640
to turn me into a massive lover
of all things Bigfoot. What what

410
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:13,920
was your impression when you first saw
that? What were you thinking? Wow?

411
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,359
What is that? What is that? And I mean, see,

412
00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:20,240
the thing the thing about this is
that, as I was saying earlier,

413
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:27,160
because I love horror films, I'd
seen all the Universal films, I've seen

414
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,599
a lot of films that were perhaps
not age appropriate, shall we say,

415
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,000
But I was always very clever as
a child that I was able to sort

416
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,720
of put them to one side.
They never gave me nightmares. Well you

417
00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:43,559
had a ghost sitting on your bed. Well, yeah, and he was

418
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:49,480
talking about movies too, Yeah,
exactly, recommend recommending some classic Universal films

419
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:58,279
to me. And so I knew
enough about films that I thought, well,

420
00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:00,559
that's clearly not a man in a
suit, Because I mean, I

421
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:04,759
remember at that age I was obsessed
with the original version of King Kong as

422
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:08,800
well, and I'd also discovered a
love of Godzilla, So I could I

423
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,320
could tell you what a money in
a suit looks like. If anybody's a

424
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,559
big Godzilla film, fum, they
can tell you exactly how how rubbish and

425
00:34:16,599 --> 00:34:22,239
money in a suit can sometimes look. And so I just thought, wow,

426
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:25,119
there there are giant monkeys living in
North America is what I thought.

427
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:30,320
Wow, you know that was that
was my impression through the first time I

428
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,519
read anything about bigfoot. I don't
know if they used to term bigfoot or

429
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:37,000
if it was just a squatch.
I don't know if you ever came across

430
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:43,280
the books of Frank Edwards and his
anthologies, uh, The Strangest of All

431
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,719
Strange World and so forth he had. He's the one that introduced me to

432
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:52,360
the Kelly Hoppinsfield Goblins on the flat
Wood. But yeah, one of them

433
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,559
he had a chapter that was called
Monster Apes of Oregon. And that's the

434
00:34:55,599 --> 00:35:00,840
first time I read about bigfoot in
the Northwest. So very very cool.

435
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,559
And was the the these books that
you that introduced you to these ideas?

436
00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:09,800
Was NeSSI in there? Oh?
Of course, look she was on the

437
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,920
front Kuma. Ah, very good, that's of course she. Yeah,

438
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,360
I've been fortunate. I've visited lot
Neess. This was this was when I

439
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,679
was getting back into it. I
went on a holiday in Scotland back in

440
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,199
two thousand and Yeah, I spent
twenty years ago and we spent I spent

441
00:35:29,639 --> 00:35:34,920
three days and at Lotness and actually
went out on Lotness in a boat for

442
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,320
an hour. I was there in
the fall of seventy three. I stayed

443
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:45,320
stated at a youth hostel in Inverness
and we went went down with a few

444
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,119
people to on a bus to uh
about the Foyer's area. We we actually

445
00:35:51,679 --> 00:35:55,920
like crazy people followed. I think
it was the Foyers River down to the

446
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,440
lock and some of that is really
treacherous. I mean we were on a

447
00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:06,280
narrow pathway like you see Indiana Jones
do. We're just a bunch of dumb

448
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,639
kids in our early twenties, you
know, doing and you know, any

449
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:13,360
one of us could have slipped and
that would have been it, you know.

450
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,079
But yeah, So I was able
to stand on the shores of Loch

451
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:21,079
Ness. It was good weather.
It was just kind of a bit of

452
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:24,239
a haze in the distance, and
of course you're always looking out there on

453
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:30,360
the water. But I also was
looking over my shoulder because I'd read FW

454
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:35,880
Holidays The Great Orm That's rm of
Lockness, where he was talking about some

455
00:36:36,039 --> 00:36:39,679
classic sightings where people were seeing this
scooting across the road and going into the

456
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:45,800
lake, so I was looking both
ways just in case. Yeah, a

457
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,800
lot of mysterious black cat sightings around
Lotness as well stage, so you were

458
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,719
very lucky something didn't pounce on you. And yes, and also abductions.

459
00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:00,480
There have been some classic UFO sightings
there too. Who was at young Sandburg

460
00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:05,679
from Sweden. Yeah, came across
that those little guys and suits and some

461
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,599
kind of a He thought it was
a submersible at first, but it took

462
00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:12,079
off in the air and he thought, oh, this is not a submersible.

463
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:16,480
Yeah. So I've always had a
thing for you. Like I said,

464
00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:20,280
I love it all. Now,
I wouldn't say I've got a particular

465
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,440
favorite subject. Really, That's why
I consider myself a fortune because I love

466
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:30,079
cryptozoology, I love the paranormal.
I'm really back into you athology because like

467
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:34,239
you say, it can sometimes it
can be a part of the fortune that

468
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,320
can that can take its toll on
you, Steve, especially like you said,

469
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,880
because there was so much inviting and
things that can someone. But that's

470
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,559
kind of something I've kind of really
reconnected with, especially since doing the show,

471
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:49,719
I have to say, And of
course John Keel hated to be called

472
00:37:50,039 --> 00:37:54,199
a ufologist because he considered himself a
Fordian. And you know that infighting goes

473
00:37:54,239 --> 00:38:00,400
way back. I remember I was
actually subscribing to Saucer and New for a

474
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:07,880
while before it went defunct in the
sixties. And h uh they had they

475
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,079
did a satire the Nightcap, the
National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, Donald

476
00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:16,719
Keho and James Moseley of Saucer News
Man. They did not like each other,

477
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,119
so Saucer News did a satire once. It was a Saucer Booze versus

478
00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:30,159
No Cramp And yeah, yeah,
Mosley really got well, mostly got under

479
00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:34,519
a lot of people's skins, but
he really got under Keyho's skins. So

480
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:38,559
that's that was. Uh, that
was some funny times back then. Uh.

481
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,559
When you were first looking at UFOs, were you now? I originally

482
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,639
thought we were dealing with something nuts
and bolts, Uh, extraterrestrials coming to

483
00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:52,719
visit Earth U, picking up soil
samples occasionally and occasionally giving us one of

484
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:59,480
those unscheduled medical examinations. U.
It was later that I had other ideas.

485
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:04,079
But how how did you first view
the UFO enigma? I viewed it

486
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,519
primarily on an alien visitation. I
have to say now, I think there

487
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:15,199
are numerous explanations that are running in
tandem. I don't think that they're all

488
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:27,159
alien visitors, and I'm not sure
that they're all interdimensional travelers or glimpses of

489
00:39:27,199 --> 00:39:35,000
the future or whatever. I think
speaking from personal experience having seen something very

490
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,480
odd in the sky several years ago, I know it wasn't a craft,

491
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:43,960
but I know where it wasn't and
what I saw isn't a typical UFO siting.

492
00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:47,280
So that alone says to me,
I think there are several things that

493
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,119
play here. But when I first
got into it and I was reading,

494
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:54,679
like you say, obviously, one
of the key stories in that UFO books

495
00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:00,719
and on the front cover was the
Hopkinsville Goblins, which is which is stay

496
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:01,880
with me. It's one of my
favorite stories as long as you As you

497
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,599
mentioned earlier Steve as well, the
flat was Monster two of my very favorite

498
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:10,920
cases because that bom me. Yes, and one of them, you know,

499
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,880
there was a kind of a documentary
done. Actually they did kind of

500
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,840
a replay of the event. I
think it's called Monsters of the UFO.

501
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,400
But the guy was being interviewed on
it, he found one of the original

502
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,679
witnesses when he was a kid then, and he said, oh yeah,

503
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,880
it all happened. And this particular
guy, I don't remember his name,

504
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:37,599
he went to church every single Sunday
after that for the rest of his life

505
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:43,719
because of that experience. Better better
than fire and brimstone, just have an

506
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:49,239
alien land and and and harass you
at your house. Absolutely, that would

507
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,079
certainly make you question your your grip
on reality and what you thought you knew

508
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:55,039
the world was. I think if
they turned up, how did you,

509
00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:02,559
how did you discover John Keel and
what and what what happened there? It's

510
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,760
It's also probably one of the biggest
regrets I've ever got in my life because

511
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,079
during that period where I kind of
dropped away from it other than reading the

512
00:41:09,079 --> 00:41:15,880
Fourteen Times, Keel spoke in Sheffield
at the at the British UFO conference,

513
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,840
and I still to this day Steve
can't explain why I didn't go, because

514
00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:25,800
it was it was somewhere where I
knew I knew killed by that point because

515
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:31,599
of the Fourteen Times, and obviously
people were referencing the Mothman. Because I

516
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:37,880
got I picked up a copy of
a very dog eared copy of the Mothman

517
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:45,079
prophecies and what else? Did I
get a third Tower? Eight? Yeah?

518
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,760
Or a Projian horse, Yeah,
I think it was the eighth Tower.

519
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,480
So I got two very dog eared
copies of both of those books for

520
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,440
a couple of pounds, not much, a couple of dollars worth, and

521
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:05,840
they both lasted about a year.
And so I was absolutely fascinated with heels

522
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:13,760
work and the phenomena, especially the
whole Mothman case, because for me it

523
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:19,320
was really interesting because it was a
range of phenomena on top of everything in

524
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,840
regards to the Mothman sightings and then
obviously the other cases that he involved,

525
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,400
and it just had a bit of
everything, and I just thought, this

526
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,639
is really great journalistic writing, even
if you don't put much credence in it.

527
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:36,000
This is a man who's a talented
writer. These are great stories on

528
00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:39,840
whatever level you want to judge them
on. And so from that point you

529
00:42:40,159 --> 00:42:46,360
could see through that sort of late
nineties period obviously that the book got optioned

530
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,960
by Hollywood and then you've got the
film turn up, which is a strange

531
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,440
thing because I know when we were
speaking Steve, we were both saying when

532
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,400
it first came out, we weren't
very keen on it, and now we've

533
00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,639
gone back to that, we're really
it's a great film. I think we

534
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:05,119
were too precious the well we I
think we both. I know, I

535
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:08,000
was disappointed that there wasn't more on
the Men in Black phenomena, which was

536
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:14,840
so fascinating. But but obviously they
had already done two very silly films on

537
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,599
the Men in Black and to you
know, make too much of a connection

538
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:22,320
with that, it would have just
been laughable. Yeah, absolutely absolutely,

539
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,800
And so it was. He was. He was held in high circles here

540
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:35,599
in British fourteen society, and so
he was kind of like the Grandfather I

541
00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:39,559
think for a lot of people that
certain people just held him up as some

542
00:43:39,639 --> 00:43:49,320
kind of high priest of the strangeness
and considered his his work almost like their

543
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,840
their fourteen Bibles. So when obviously
everything kind of got re released when the

544
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,599
film came out, and from that
point on, I was really hoped.

545
00:43:57,639 --> 00:44:00,719
And he's an author that i've I
mean, I must have read the Mothman

546
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:06,199
prophecies, I don't know, at
least ten or twenty times. Right.

547
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:12,280
You can get it on audible too, which is really fun if you want

548
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,880
to fall asleep to that, you
know, maybe you won't be, But

549
00:44:17,079 --> 00:44:22,159
yeah, he he was speaking of
Art Bell. He was he sort of

550
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:25,880
came out of retirement and he did
an interview on Coast to Coast AM.

551
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,280
He hadn't done one for a long
time, and you could still find that

552
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,920
on YouTube, I think, or
at least online and very strange interview.

553
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,639
Steve Yes, Art Bell didn't know
anything about Mathman or John Teele. You

554
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:43,639
know, which is weird, isn't
it. Do you think of all the

555
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,239
characters he'd spoken to, and you
know, there were certain people like Robert

556
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:52,760
Gold ghost Wolf who'd come on and
talk about these clearly imagine any things that

557
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,719
he'd done, and all these other
characters that he had, And then I

558
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,079
mean that was the only not really
a criticism. I don't think he had

559
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:06,199
a massive interest in it, but
he didn't sort of touch on anything to

560
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:09,079
do with cryptids at all. Really, the vast majority of his his shows

561
00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:14,880
were to do with the paranormal and
new ethology and things like Bigfoot and Mothman

562
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:21,480
and high strangeness in general. There
doesn't seem to be much there in that

563
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:23,440
period, which I find very odd. But then I suppose you've got to

564
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:29,440
go where your audience wants to go. And they were the two key cryptozoology.

565
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:34,239
I don't is the one that's kind
of risen to an equal level in

566
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,840
my opinion since since the Internet.
Really, but I think at that period

567
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:45,719
a lot of people were primarily into
the ghosts and into aliens and UFOs,

568
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:51,960
right, and like somebody that used
to throw oracles out of Fake magazine didn't

569
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:58,599
want to join them together, you
know. But again that person has reformed

570
00:45:58,599 --> 00:46:01,159
a long time ago. Let me
do my little intermission here for just a

571
00:46:01,159 --> 00:46:05,960
moment. You are listening to the
High Strangeness Factor, copyrighted on the Paranormal

572
00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:09,239
UK Radio Network. Today, Brandy
and I are talking to Paul Bestel about

573
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:15,159
his research, his ideas and his
podcast Mysteries and Monsters. Uh, John

574
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:22,880
Keel, I remember he told his
literary agent, Sandra Martin. She told

575
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,239
Brent Rains, who is a sort
of Keel's biographer, and and he didn't

576
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,440
never met Keel, but he corresponded
with him, talk to him on the

577
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,840
phone and so forth. Uh.
She told Brent Rains that when Keel got

578
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,679
this screenplay for the film by Richard
HadAM, I think Prior to that,

579
00:46:39,159 --> 00:46:45,280
he had gotten screenplays that were turning
just Mothman into a monster or whatever.

580
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:47,719
You know, he didn't want any
part of that, so he was Sandra

581
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,039
Martin said, Keel was so happy. He was laughing. He said,

582
00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:54,760
you know, they've they've updated it, they've got me married and so forth.

583
00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:00,079
But finally somebody's captured some of the
basic underlying idea of the book.

584
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:06,880
And that's what I began to feel
later after my initial negative reaction. That's

585
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:13,800
my drift. Yeah, yeah,
I can understand that because you it's one

586
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,800
of those things. I mean,
you look at some of the films that

587
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,760
are made, Like I said,
because I consider myself a lover of all

588
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,920
weird things, and I've watched more
bad films than I care to admit to.

589
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,559
Sometimes sometimes bad films are the best, Oh absolutely. But it's strange

590
00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:37,480
going back to all that because obviously
one of the films I saw during my

591
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:44,480
sort of early childhood, which is
one of those that surprises me when I

592
00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:45,519
think, because I think back and
I think, what the hell would the

593
00:47:45,559 --> 00:47:52,079
BBC Player was that we had a
season I don't know, nineteen eighteen,

594
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:54,559
nineteen eighty one, So I was
aware of big Book by this point,

595
00:47:54,960 --> 00:48:00,800
and they shelled The Beast of Boggie
Creek on British television at six o'clock on

596
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:07,039
a Friday evening, and they just
basically said, this docu drama is about

597
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:10,719
a strange creature running about Arkansas.
I thought, oh, well, brilliant,

598
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,400
and I think it was a classic. They've been showing these films and

599
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,960
we had they'd showed the Battle Lugosi, Dracker and King Kong had been on,

600
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,480
and they's shown a Godzilla film and
stuff. So I'm thinking, well,

601
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,639
this is all fine, and I
watched The Beast of Bodie Creek and

602
00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:30,199
it absolutely scared the bejesus O me. Well, you know, I did

603
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:31,360
not see it when it came out. It kind of hit the drive in

604
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:37,199
circuit over here, but I know
that from listening to a lot of people

605
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:44,840
that are Bigfoot researchers nowadays, that
was the film that started it for them,

606
00:48:45,159 --> 00:48:47,639
that they had a huge, huge
influence over here. Yeah. Yeah,

607
00:48:47,679 --> 00:48:51,199
Well for me, I think it's
the greatest big Foot film ever made.

608
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:58,280
Still, now, did you have
a feeling that, even though you

609
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,000
may not have heard any reports from
over there, that there might be some

610
00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:07,920
kind of a creature like that over
in the UK or were you kind of

611
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,639
did you kind of feel removed from
it, like, well, thank gosh,

612
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,119
that's all happening and over in the
United States. Yeah, Well,

613
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:21,159
at that point, Brandy, we
in the UK, our eyes were fixed

614
00:49:21,199 --> 00:49:25,239
to the east and we were just
staring towards Nepal and looking for the Yetik.

615
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:30,400
So we'd get lots of stories and
things about the Yeti, but Bigfoot

616
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:37,280
culturally was near enough non existent over
here. And so, like I say,

617
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:45,480
it's only when I got into the
sort of nineties and cable TV and

618
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:51,039
seeing certain people pop up on sightings
and you'd occasionally see a documentary that had

619
00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:57,800
been repeated that were made sort of
in that great sort of period after the

620
00:49:58,119 --> 00:50:04,400
Patson Gimlin film where people were making
really great documentaries about Bigfoot, and you

621
00:50:04,519 --> 00:50:09,400
had characters like John Green and many
de Hinden and the like sort of arguing

622
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:15,320
on camera into about what they thought
it was and what they should and shouldn't

623
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,760
do. And so when I was
a kid growing up, there was next

624
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,880
to nothing about it. So when
I saw something like that, I was

625
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:23,480
like, could it be? And
I thought, well, you know,

626
00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:28,599
I'm you know. I wasn't a
adapt chat. I was very well read

627
00:50:28,639 --> 00:50:30,440
and had a very open mind about
things. So I just thought, well,

628
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,840
America's massive, Why why shouldn't there
be something there? Why not?

629
00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:38,719
There's you know, there's bears there, they're big. Why can't there be

630
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,320
something else wrong about there? And
then I started thinking, well, are

631
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,000
there monkeys in America? I mean
the monkeys in Africa? There are monkeys

632
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:50,719
in Asia. Why can't there be
monkeys in North America? And for me,

633
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,920
it wasn't that much of a leap, so I thought, well,

634
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,239
maybe it's just some kind of undiscovered
species. So I wasn't dismissive. I

635
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,440
just thought, well, I'm I'm
always surprised that the arrogance of people that

636
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:06,480
they think they've discovered everything, when
every week something turns up that nobody's expecting.

637
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,480
As I've said here, I mean, we've got capy barers running about

638
00:51:09,079 --> 00:51:15,239
in England and you know, mysterious
colonies of wallabies. We've got a wild

639
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,559
boar population that nobody wants to talk
about. Here got mysterious black cats.

640
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,559
Yeah, yeah, so there are
there are is the kind of situation that

641
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:29,159
nobody wants to talk about until something
bad happens sadly. What about the man

642
00:51:29,199 --> 00:51:36,119
Monkey. All I know about that
is I skimmed the book Nick Redfer and

643
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:37,840
wrote a book on the man monkey. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

644
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:42,000
There was a lot of sightings around
Canic Chase, which is in the

645
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,159
Midlands, and there was a there
was a story from sort of the late

646
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:52,840
nineteenth century I think, where people
were being attacked by some strange kind of

647
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:58,320
man monkey type figure and it was
like scaring people. It was. It

648
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:04,679
was very similar to to the kind
of stories that surrounded Springheeled Jack, I

649
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,760
think, where a lot lots of
people were caught unawares late at night wandering

650
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,920
in lonely parts of the Midlands.
But there's some strange creatures around there.

651
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,679
They've got the shug monkey, which
is essentially a dog faced monkey as well,

652
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,159
so I'm not too sure. I
have to say, before I started

653
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:27,320
a podcast, I fell foul of
the British big foot believers society because obviously

654
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:34,239
there are people who think they're running
around here, which I'm not having that

655
00:52:36,199 --> 00:52:38,519
people people might be seeing something,
but it's not an eight foot cryptid.

656
00:52:38,639 --> 00:52:42,480
I'll see that. I'll say that
they might be seeing the ghosts of something,

657
00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:47,079
but I don't think there's a flesh
and blood something running around this country

658
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:52,159
anyway, primarily because it's not that
big. As I've said to some of

659
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:57,519
my guests, I think the UK
can fit inside thirteen American states, so

660
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,639
you know, we're not that big. You can drive from from Scotland to

661
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,880
Cornwall in about eighteen hours, so
you can drive the entire length of the

662
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,000
country in less than a day.
You know, that would be a great

663
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:15,320
quote, Paul Bestall, I'm not
having that with an eight by ten glossy

664
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:22,159
of your photograph, not in my
watch. But it's almost like this man

665
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:27,400
monkey thing. It's a little bit
like some of John Keel's window areas.

666
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:31,199
There are things that sort of pop
in, scare the hell out of people,

667
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,760
do seem to have some substance,
and then they're gone, yeah,

668
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,119
yeah, well kind of chase is
one of those areas of high strangeness.

669
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:45,239
Steve nick Nick Redfern's done a couple
of books on a Nixxon phenomenal research and

670
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:52,000
a prolific author and another person who
I would imagine you could he would happily

671
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,039
consider himself a fourting because he's obviously
covered a wide variety of subjects from from

672
00:53:57,159 --> 00:54:00,840
conspiracies to UFOs to cryptids. I'm
not too sure if he's done on the

673
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:07,719
paranormal, but he's certainly covered a
wide range of strange topics and so for

674
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,360
me, he's the perfect British example
of somebody who would be looking into a

675
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,679
strange window area because I mean it's
his neck of the woods and and so

676
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:22,639
he would be perfectly poised to give
a personal opinion on it. Obviously,

677
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,599
I know he lived in the States
for quite a long time. I believe

678
00:54:24,639 --> 00:54:30,639
he's recently moved back to the UK. But obviously Nick's somebody that's been around

679
00:54:30,679 --> 00:54:34,320
for a very long time. So
he's another one like Keel that I became

680
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,280
aware of through the Forteen Times and
the work he was doing. And obviously

681
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:42,360
he's worked with the Center of forty
and zoology here because he also wrote another

682
00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:46,159
brilliant book which is Three Men Seeking
Monsters. Yes, what a you know?

683
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:52,840
They need to make that into a
TV miniseries, which is which is

684
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,639
quite funny because I read that.
I remember reading that on a plane Steve

685
00:54:55,679 --> 00:55:00,119
on my kindle and the man next
to me gave me the strangest looks all

686
00:55:00,199 --> 00:55:05,000
where Back to the UK. He
just kept looking, and you know when

687
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,119
somebody's looking at glands and he'd kind
of give you that worried nod. I

688
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:14,800
wonder the hell and I got here
and it's quite good. The books.

689
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,960
I dragged into restaurants and sit there
for hours, striking coffee. I get

690
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,280
a lot of strange looks. Exactly
one place I frequent in the morning,

691
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:30,039
they just called me a Marthman.
So it's quite quite funny. Obviously,

692
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,320
I've really got to know Richard Freeman, who was one of the three men

693
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:37,000
in that book. I've got to
know Richard really well. I've written the

694
00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:42,840
forward for his for his new book
that's coming out shortly. So to go

695
00:55:43,079 --> 00:55:47,599
from reading about him and what he
was up to to becoming somebody that I

696
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,280
know and speak to regularly and was
asked to do that for his is phenomenal.

697
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,840
Really. Dick has done some books
like I think it was Black Diarrhea's

698
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,559
one, and he's talked about the
stranger or paranormal as spects of the men.

699
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:05,280
I'm black, So he does get
it. He covers everything. Boy,

700
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,199
we could you know, we we
could talk about Giant keel forever.

701
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,960
But some people out there are saying
yes, and other people are groaning.

702
00:56:14,599 --> 00:56:19,480
What about when did you discover Jacques
Flee around the same time. Really,

703
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,920
I mean there was a lot of
kind of cross pollination when people were talking

704
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:31,079
about the the deep thinkers of the
subject. Steve and I think Jacques and

705
00:56:31,559 --> 00:56:36,920
Johnna are very similar in regards to
the fact that they I would say that

706
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,960
they elevated the conversation to a to
a level that a lot of other people

707
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,719
weren't doing beneath them, sort of
all the people who were pointing fingers and

708
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:51,480
arguing about arguing about themselves or whether
they were Grays or the Nordics or whatever,

709
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:53,840
or whether they were all coming to
take us to Venus, to meet

710
00:56:53,880 --> 00:57:02,320
these wonderful naked planets full of fruits
and ambrosia on every turn, you know.

711
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:08,480
And some of the crazy quasi religious
cults that had sprung up around the

712
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,760
world in the fifties, Adan Ski
especially as a prime example of that.

713
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:19,760
So I think Jacques Vallet and Passport
to Mogolia is another one of those books,

714
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:27,199
and I just think is incredibly important
because it makes you question the reality

715
00:57:27,239 --> 00:57:31,920
of the world outside of not just
talking about strange phenomenon because it if you

716
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,440
look at when it came out,
and you look at what we know in

717
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,920
the world of astrophysics and physics these
days. It's it's almost incredible where we've

718
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,679
come from in such such a short
space of time, really, that you

719
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:51,920
know, we've got a giant hadron
collider under the ground in Switzerland trying to

720
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,039
trying to make black holes. I
mean, if you'd have said that to

721
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:59,079
me forty years ago and I laughed
in your face. Yeah, yeah,

722
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:06,119
people stop hearing the transmission on this. That means the black hole stuff that's

723
00:58:06,159 --> 00:58:12,840
going to get through the alp.
Brandy, you probably have like a dozen

724
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:19,360
questions ready to go. Well,
actually, I'm curious. You're talking about

725
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:24,840
these window areas and kind of the
amalgamation of all different kinds of phenomena happening

726
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:30,280
in certain you know, spots,
And I wonder, Paul, if you

727
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:39,960
have a theory as to why certain
phenomena might happen in some spots and other

728
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:45,559
phenomena happens in other spots. If
they're all kind of blinking in and out,

729
00:58:46,239 --> 00:58:52,239
you know, like why is the
man ape in Cannock Chase and a

730
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:59,719
yetti in Nepal? You know why
why wouldn't they all be blinking in and

731
00:58:59,719 --> 00:59:06,039
out of everywhere. I think sometimes
one of the problems is I think that

732
00:59:06,199 --> 00:59:10,360
there are places, I think where
the veil is the thinnest, that you

733
00:59:10,519 --> 00:59:15,239
have particular areas as you know,
as we say these window areas that you

734
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,920
could kind of say like skin Walker
Ranch or the Bridgewater Triangle is another one,

735
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:27,400
Chestnut Ridge where all kinds of weird
and wonderful things go on there and

736
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,599
you've got here. And then as
Steve was mentioning earlier on the work that

737
00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:37,440
Paul Sinclair's done over on the east
of Yorkshire, where that it's not just

738
00:59:37,519 --> 00:59:39,280
strange lights in the sky. There's
a lot of weird things going on over

739
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:45,559
there, and weird phenomenons being reported
for three four hundred years. And it's

740
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:52,119
not just like I say that the
atypical unidentified flying objects or whatever. There

741
00:59:52,119 --> 00:59:57,320
are people seeing strange creatures, there
are people seeing ghosts all over the place.

742
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,920
There are places where people seem to
vanish off the face of the earth.

743
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:10,119
And so I think sometimes when we
have localized phenomena like the Yetty wherever

744
01:00:10,159 --> 01:00:17,280
that is, or you could even
say very similar to the Yawi in Australia

745
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,760
because there's a lot of high strangeness
that surrounds the Yawi. I'm not too

746
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:29,760
sure, but I'm a big believer
in obviously how we know the universe works,

747
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:34,360
or we think we know as much
as we like to that there are

748
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,079
lots of strange things that play going
on of every second of every minute of

749
01:00:39,079 --> 01:00:45,239
every day. I think in the
universe that you have things that would just

750
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:50,400
blow our minds and bafflers if we, as normal lay people would look into

751
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,840
them and see what was happening on
other planets or in far flung parts of

752
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:59,559
this galaxy. And I think when
you get strange areas where you get strange

753
01:00:59,639 --> 01:01:05,480
lights in the sky, hairy Homonid's
running about people seeing ghosts, people seeing

754
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:13,679
other types of monsters like dog Man
that I'm not too sure what creates that

755
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:20,199
veil to be so thin. I'm
not sure if it's people seeing them on

756
01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:25,000
a conscious level and believing that they're
physical entities. I'm not sure if you've

757
01:01:25,039 --> 01:01:31,079
got physical entities and also things popping
in and out of other places. I

758
01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:39,000
think sometimes a big believer in parallel
phenomenon running concurrently that may not be linked,

759
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:45,559
so you will often hear people saying, oh, well, UFO's and

760
01:01:45,599 --> 01:01:47,840
Bigfoot of linked because people have seen
a big foot and there's also been UFOs

761
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,440
reported. Well, there might be, but it doesn't necessarily Just because two

762
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,800
things have happened at the same time, it doesn't mean they're linked. I

763
01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:01,119
spoke recently to an author called T. Watson who's just released a book called

764
01:02:01,159 --> 01:02:08,840
The Forest Poltergeist, And essentially what
that's looking at is that you've obviously got

765
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:15,159
your class a bigfoot encounters where people
see something, interact with something, have

766
01:02:15,239 --> 01:02:21,159
a physical interaction on some level.
But you also have all these reports of

767
01:02:21,199 --> 01:02:30,119
people hearing things, tree knocks,
howls, footprints wherever. Is that being

768
01:02:30,199 --> 01:02:35,880
prescribed to bigfoot incorrectly? And is
there something else going on at the same

769
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,880
time or is it a mixture of
everything? And as with anything when people

770
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:45,199
come to the strange, a lot
of people don't like situations they can't explain

771
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:50,199
easily, I find, And so
some people will say that everything's bigfoot,

772
01:02:50,239 --> 01:02:53,679
and some people will say everything's a
poltergeist that lives in a wood. But

773
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:58,960
I think if we're going to talk
about these creatures and these situations and these

774
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,519
phenomena, properly and openly. We
have to be open to the fact that

775
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,039
why can't two things be happening at
once? Why does it have to be

776
01:03:07,079 --> 01:03:09,480
one or the other? Why does
it have to be two? It could

777
01:03:09,519 --> 01:03:14,199
be three or four. We are
not sure. And that's before you even

778
01:03:14,199 --> 01:03:19,920
start talking about things like the fae. So, yes, who knows,

779
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,239
Brandy. So I'm not sure I
couldn't. If I gave you an answer,

780
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,400
I'd be I'd be I'd be punching
above my grade, I think,

781
01:03:27,519 --> 01:03:30,679
because I don't think anybody's got real
answer for that. But I'm not sure.

782
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:37,199
That's that's me getting out of it. See that ready, you laid

783
01:03:37,199 --> 01:03:45,079
a trap. I'd like to think
I swiftly stepped out of the way very

784
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:49,239
well. And I think it was
interesting because I know when you were saying

785
01:03:49,239 --> 01:03:52,559
at the beginning about what you're reading. The Woodknocks series that Daily Weather has

786
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:57,159
done is a phenomenal I mean,
David's work is amazing anyway, and if

787
01:03:57,199 --> 01:04:00,519
you've not started them, David's obviously
started doing his his books on every state

788
01:04:00,559 --> 01:04:06,400
in the US. Yes, they
are easily some of the best books I've

789
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:13,159
ever read, and I can't recommend
them David's work across a number of David's

790
01:04:13,159 --> 01:04:16,960
Another one, Stephen Brandy, that
I would suggest is also somebody who would

791
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:21,039
consider himself for Fortuen because he obviously
covers cryptids, but he deals with ghosts,

792
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:27,480
he deals with legends, he deals
with the UFOs. He's a renaissance

793
01:04:27,519 --> 01:04:30,000
man, I would suggest, and
he's a damn good writer, and he's

794
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,519
a brilliant investigator. So once you
get through the Woodknock series, because I've

795
01:04:33,559 --> 01:04:38,599
got all them, because I'm near
enough got everything David's released, I would

796
01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:41,920
recommend you move on to the state
ones because they are just brilliant, because

797
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,000
they cover everything, and you will
learn. Even if you think you know

798
01:04:45,199 --> 01:04:50,320
things about your particular state or a
state that you know, or you think

799
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:54,079
you know very well, you will
always discover something in those books. And

800
01:04:54,119 --> 01:04:59,079
that's the best thing about this subject
is not only do you learn about weird

801
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:01,400
things, you also get bit of
history and a bit of geography as well,

802
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,719
which is a great thing. Knowledge
is wonderful. Actually, Brandy and

803
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:11,199
I have had the privilege of meeting
David a few times at the Van Meter

804
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,599
Visitor Festival in west of Des Moines, Iowa. At the end of September

805
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:19,920
commemorating the Week of Terror nineteen oh
three, where they were seeing some kind

806
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:25,440
of a not just a pterodactyl like
creature, but it had some very bizarre

807
01:05:26,679 --> 01:05:30,239
attributes, like a light on its
beak, I think. And it's just

808
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:34,639
a very strange set of circumstances.
Yeah, I think that in some cases,

809
01:05:34,679 --> 01:05:40,159
in some of these areas high strangest
areas, there are some links.

810
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:43,760
You know, if you go back
to eighteen ninety seven in Ohio, you

811
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,679
had the airship reports, you had
a wild man being seen in Adams County

812
01:05:47,719 --> 01:05:54,360
where the separate mound is between mid
April and mid May, and also a

813
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:59,920
bunch of black panther sightings. You
have Lee Hample's farm near bray Row,

814
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,079
near Elkhorn, Wisconsin, where he's
seen the dog Man and there's some kind

815
01:06:03,079 --> 01:06:08,079
of weird technology flying around there.
And of course you have Stan You mentioned

816
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:15,599
the area in Pennsylvania that just slipped
out of my head, the area where

817
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:19,960
Bigfoot and UFOs have been seen,
especially in seventy three and seventy four.

818
01:06:20,199 --> 01:06:23,480
But on the other hand, I
have to say, you know, you're

819
01:06:23,519 --> 01:06:30,000
I'm sure you're familiar with Albert Rosales's
Database of the Humanoids, and he's got

820
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,000
those fifteen books out and when you
read through those, those are fascinating.

821
01:06:33,239 --> 01:06:39,519
But I can't believe everything in there, our will of the wisp, for

822
01:06:39,679 --> 01:06:45,440
transmogrifications of energy or whatever. I
think that some of them are probably physical

823
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:49,199
flesh and blood encounters along with the
other. And I don't know, you

824
01:06:49,239 --> 01:06:54,679
know, trying to separate the two
if both exist, if we both have

825
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:59,199
two, if these two things are
going on, something more ethereal, something

826
01:06:59,239 --> 01:07:02,320
more tied to wor a consciousness,
but then also something very physical, is

827
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:08,440
sometimes it's almost like you can't even
separate them. Yeah, I think sometimes

828
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,000
the problem is, and I've said
this before when I've spoken to some other

829
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:17,039
guests, is that a lot of
people are into their particular subject and therefore

830
01:07:17,079 --> 01:07:20,280
they don't know, they don't know
much about the other things that are around

831
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:25,159
them. Because I've seen this in
all walks of the weird. So you'll

832
01:07:25,719 --> 01:07:30,679
you will always get people who will
consider anything surrounding a UFO siting to be

833
01:07:30,719 --> 01:07:34,079
related to the UFO or the occupants
or something. You will see the Bigfoot

834
01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:40,840
researchers who will have no interest in
anything paranormal because the other thing I've said

835
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:45,559
about this is that whenever people talk
about is Bigfoot an interdimensional being? Well,

836
01:07:45,639 --> 01:07:48,840
why are we not saying why isn't
it a ghost? Nobody wants to

837
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:54,000
say I've seen the ghost of a
Bigfoot. They seem to leap straight to

838
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:59,079
it being an interdimensional being. That's
magic. I think, well, why

839
01:07:59,239 --> 01:08:01,960
why would you go that far across? Why would you jump over ghosts to

840
01:08:02,039 --> 01:08:06,639
get to interdimensional being? Surely that's
a stranger concept, is it not?

841
01:08:08,159 --> 01:08:12,400
Then the possibility that people may see
a ghost and that's why Bigfoot disappears behind

842
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,920
a tree, because you're not seeing
a creature, you're seeing you're seeing a

843
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:23,159
haunting of something. Because there are
so many reports of ghost cats and ghost

844
01:08:23,239 --> 01:08:30,479
dogs, ghost horses. Why wouldn't
there be if you open your mind to

845
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,159
the existence of the paranormal and all
levels, and there are thousands and thousands

846
01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:39,079
of accounts of people who had encounters
with ghost animals. And I think if

847
01:08:39,119 --> 01:08:44,880
you ask anybody in a paranormal sense, people will soon start talking about a

848
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:50,560
paranormal experience around an animal of some
kind that I don't understand why people jump

849
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:55,159
over that when it comes to a
creature like bigfoot. Why couldn't there be

850
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,840
I'm sure you know here in the
UK we've got two very famous ghost ai

851
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:05,359
stories, so if we've got you
know, obviously monkeys are not native to

852
01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:09,000
the UK that some people used to
keep them as pets, and some people

853
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:13,520
still do so. If you can
have ghosts of apes reported in the United

854
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,920
Kingdom, why can you not have
the ghost of a hairy hominid, which

855
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:21,000
has been reported for millennia, both
through native culture and into the modern era,

856
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:27,600
rather than it being something from another
dimension. What is the difference between

857
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:35,520
the UK ghost apes and Harry hominid
reports? Is there some difference? Yeah,

858
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:43,319
well, they're both. They're both
rather odd. Let's just say one

859
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:46,680
of them is rather rude. It's
it's a ghost. How shall I say

860
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,800
this? It's a ghost of an
ape that's enjoying himself. I'll say that,

861
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:59,920
Okay, Yeah, that's the politest
description I can have for yourselves.

862
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:04,239
And the other one is just one
that just runs around banging and jumping and

863
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:10,159
shrieking. I'm not sure if they're
both ones of maccaor and ones of baboon

864
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:18,800
pecular apes, like, were they
particular you know, zoo animals or particular

865
01:10:19,319 --> 01:10:24,800
circus apes or something or are they
pets? There were pets, oh,

866
01:10:25,399 --> 01:10:30,199
okay, that's people people used to
people in big country houses used to have

867
01:10:30,359 --> 01:10:35,319
meningeries. So they have all kinds. And one of them was as a

868
01:10:35,319 --> 01:10:41,760
as a story where the ape killed
its owner and is known for for shrieking

869
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,760
around the particular building, and the
other one. But yeah, a lot

870
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,880
of people used to keep them as
pets. They'd buy them sort of on

871
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:53,039
the black market, as it were, and so you know, you'd have

872
01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:56,399
a lot of people at that time
sending around the world to people that just

873
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,479
pick up small monkeys and apes are
all around the place. I mean quite

874
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,079
how they manage to get a baboon
on a ship and getting back to the

875
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:05,560
UK and it ripping some of these
eyes, I'm not really sure that the

876
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:11,640
baboons are not known for being the
calmest of the the animal kingdom. So

877
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,039
but yeah, they were pets.
Okay, you know, you know,

878
01:11:15,079 --> 01:11:18,359
Paul, that's one of the best
descriptions of a behavior I've ever heard.

879
01:11:21,319 --> 01:11:26,640
I've mentioned that story enough to know
how to don sround it rated PG excellent.

880
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:32,119
Okay, he's a very happy monkey. Well that's good, and he

881
01:11:32,199 --> 01:11:36,600
has a hobby. Well, that's
very good. Uh So what I'm always

882
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:43,520
fascinated about are are the parallels the
connections. Uh. Keel said that people

883
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:48,640
he talked to that experienced cryptids and
or UFOs, I mean, your cryptos

884
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:54,560
and UFO separately would suffer the same
physical effects, uh, muscle ache,

885
01:11:54,800 --> 01:12:00,279
thirst, and sometimes even conjunctive itis. What's what's the There was to the

886
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:05,159
lady Connie Carpenter, one of the
original witnesses of the Mothman, that received

887
01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:10,800
conjunctive itis iburn, which is normally
associated with UFOs. And then you have

888
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:15,840
the situations where, of course you
have UFOs that stop cars, you have

889
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:21,439
phantom armies that have manifested that stop
car engines, and even the close proximity

890
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:27,840
of a bigfoot like creature. So
it's those kinds of parallels that suggest that

891
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,560
at least in some cases, a
lot of these things must be connected.

892
01:12:31,319 --> 01:12:35,640
Yeah, I mean that kind of
gives you some kind of indication that something

893
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:42,279
physical must be happening because people are
having a physical reaction to it. Obviously,

894
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,119
people would say that sometimes these could
be psychosomatic and they induce them on

895
01:12:46,239 --> 01:12:55,760
themselves, and sometimes people's subcumscious can
create ailments that wouldn't necessarily be reported.

896
01:12:55,840 --> 01:13:00,680
But then as you say, there, Steve, are countless, especially when

897
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,119
it comes to the UFO cases where
people have physical signs afterwards. I mean,

898
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:08,439
another great example is the cash Landrum
incident where they both, yes,

899
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:13,479
well all three of them, obviously
the small boy was ill as well,

900
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:20,359
where they suffered severe physical ailments afterwards
to you know, to end up seeking

901
01:13:20,399 --> 01:13:27,800
hospital treatment. And so you only
have to sort of dive into that particular

902
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,159
subject where you as you say,
in regards the mothmaan, there were numerous

903
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:35,119
people that had issues with their eyes
after having sightings. There are countless UFO

904
01:13:35,199 --> 01:13:41,760
reports where people have had insomnia,
coming down with fevers, as you say,

905
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:47,079
chills, aches, as though they've
been exposed to some kind of substance

906
01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:54,159
or chemical or there's a reaction in
them that causes them to become ill,

907
01:13:54,680 --> 01:14:00,039
like I said, as though they're
becoming allergic to something. Right. Whether

908
01:14:00,119 --> 01:14:05,720
this is I don't know. It's
weird because some of the reports it sounds

909
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:11,119
almost like they've they've got some kind
of hay fever and they need antihistamines because

910
01:14:11,119 --> 01:14:14,439
a lot of the symptoms seem to
be quite similar to that kind of thing.

911
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,159
But then, obviously, as you
say, you have people that have

912
01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:23,479
reports of seeing a ufo or a
cryptid who will then suddenly realize that for

913
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:30,399
some reason they seem to have a
polsy ice move into their home. Brandy,

914
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:33,359
you must have more questions. I
listen, Paul. I know,

915
01:14:33,359 --> 01:14:39,479
Brandy, she's probably got twenty Quinton's
questions written out in cursive, just ready

916
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:45,359
to go. Well, I know
you didn't you kind of slid by this

917
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:49,840
earlier. But where do the fay
fit into all of this? Are they?

918
01:14:51,399 --> 01:15:00,119
I mean, are they their own
category of phenomena or are they somehow

919
01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:05,159
responsible for everything else? I think
some people would like them to be.

920
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:13,159
I mean, they are the ultimate
trickster in folklore, aren't they. There

921
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:20,600
are stories from all continents or cultures
of little people, people who live in

922
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:23,720
the hills, in the woods,
in the valleys, that you have to

923
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,479
treat with respect. Some are quite
it doesn't really matter if you unite to

924
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:32,319
them. They just don't like humans. And so I think, once again,

925
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:38,640
because fairies and the fay seem to
have been pushed to one side for

926
01:15:39,079 --> 01:15:45,039
a considerable part of the twentieth century, I think it's only the last twenty

927
01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:51,119
years or so that the FAY as
a relevant forty and subject seems to be

928
01:15:51,119 --> 01:15:57,279
being taken seriously again, Brandy,
and I think once again that comes down

929
01:15:57,359 --> 01:16:02,640
to the level of interest that researchers
may or may not have in a particular

930
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:08,079
subject. You only have to look
at how dismissive some people have been about

931
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:15,640
indigenous cultures across all continents, be
they First Nations or Native American or down

932
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:21,800
into Australia or some of the continent. Some of the cultures across Europe that

933
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:28,239
people would often dismiss them as just
being old tales and stories and not giving

934
01:16:28,239 --> 01:16:31,399
them any credence. And yet if
you sit down and look at them studiously

935
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:36,159
and look at them in a modern
Fortian lens, there's a lot of parallels

936
01:16:36,199 --> 01:16:42,199
with strange things that go on.
Because most tribes in North America have stories

937
01:16:42,199 --> 01:16:45,600
of hairy homonids, some quite large, some quite small. They also have

938
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:51,439
stories about creatures that live in certain
areas that you have to treat with respect.

939
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:56,800
There's a lot of cultures from nations
in Africa where they have a great

940
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:04,399
belief in elementals and earth spirits,
and a lot of that came across during

941
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:11,319
the sort of migrations, the forced
migrations in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries where

942
01:17:11,359 --> 01:17:17,520
people from African nations would find themselves
in North America and they would bring these

943
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,479
beliefs with them, and so for
them, regardless of the fact that they

944
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:26,079
were now in a different continent,
they still thought that whatever they'd grown up

945
01:17:26,119 --> 01:17:30,279
with had come with them. Which, well, it's one of those things

946
01:17:30,279 --> 01:17:35,159
because when you look at certain areas
of the US, different states seem to

947
01:17:35,199 --> 01:17:44,760
have been popularized by different cultures,
and so you have large sort of Germanic

948
01:17:45,279 --> 01:17:49,319
and Scandinavian populations in the northern parts, you know, and there aren't many

949
01:17:49,319 --> 01:17:54,279
states like Wisconsin where people put a
pickle on their Christmas tree and that's a

950
01:17:54,319 --> 01:17:58,920
German tradition, you know. But
then you've also got large areas where you've

951
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:03,439
got Scandinavian culture quite evident. Obviously. You go to the southern States,

952
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:08,640
you've got a lot of French culture
down there. You look at the western

953
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:12,800
US, you've got a lot of
Spanish influence still, especially with a lot

954
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,960
of people that have kind of come
up from Mexico and Central America as well.

955
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,840
So you've got different cultures all over
it, lay it on top of

956
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:25,680
the existing histories and beliefs of the
Native Americans. And yet a lot of

957
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:29,079
them all have very similar beliefs.
They've just all got different names for them.

958
01:18:30,199 --> 01:18:36,560
Sure we have the puck Wedgies in
the Ridgewater Triangle and even you know,

959
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:42,279
if you go to the strange things
going on in dubbed whales in seventy

960
01:18:42,319 --> 01:18:46,319
seven Southwestern whales, not only did
they have seven foot tall silver suited giants,

961
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:51,000
they've had these little shirt guys three
foot feet tall with curved eyebrows and

962
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:56,680
in conjunction with the same kind of
egg shaped craft. So you have this

963
01:18:57,039 --> 01:19:03,600
bizarre mix of all the stuff with
orbs and animal reactions. Another important thing,

964
01:19:04,079 --> 01:19:08,439
so I think, and I think
you know, Jacques Role, back

965
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:12,800
in what was the late sixties,
began to pave the way for making those

966
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,680
connections with the faries, the elementals, whatever you want to call them,

967
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:24,079
the fay and and you know in
various traditions and some UFO encounters. Yeah,

968
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:26,720
absolutely, I mean you only have
to look for a direct comparison.

969
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,560
For example, I'm not saying they're
the same thing, but if you look

970
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:32,800
at abductions in the in the ufo
sphere, and then you look at the

971
01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:39,079
history of the Fay. People were
fairy led, they disappeared, and then

972
01:19:39,119 --> 01:19:45,119
they come back and nobody know where
they'd been for five days Allah Travis Walton,

973
01:19:45,159 --> 01:19:48,159
for example. Yeah, and so
there's there's a direct parallel there because

974
01:19:48,159 --> 01:19:53,039
you've got two things that are happening
that are very different, but essentially it's

975
01:19:53,079 --> 01:19:58,560
the same thing. Somebody sees something
that's not of this earth and disappears or

976
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:02,119
can't remember what's happened, and so
you would think, well, is this

977
01:20:02,279 --> 01:20:05,560
because this is the other argument that
sometimes used to get put forward, is

978
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:11,319
that nobody sees fairies anymore. They
just see aliens. And yet yeah,

979
01:20:12,079 --> 01:20:15,880
Now, I mean, if you
just said to me six years ago before

980
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:20,520
I started doing the show, is
there anything in the world of the Fay

981
01:20:21,079 --> 01:20:26,880
that you think is valid or relevant? I have said absolutely, not a

982
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:32,920
chance. Now, I don't know
what's going on where I know enough,

983
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:35,800
and I've spoken to enough people,
and I've seen enough now to know that

984
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:42,439
people having very real encounters with some
strange form of beings of a variety of

985
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,920
types. You can call them bog
arts or goblins or fay or the knockers,

986
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,880
or whatever, but they're not seeing
aliens. They're not seeing the Grays

987
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:55,760
or the Nordics or the robots.
Or you look at the incident at Pascagoula

988
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,760
with Charles xsent and Calvin Parker.
You know that was a very sort of

989
01:21:00,159 --> 01:21:05,239
robotic type of encounter before they met
the strange woman on the ship. But

990
01:21:05,319 --> 01:21:10,479
once again, you will have stories
like that where people meet strange fay who

991
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:15,479
take them to meet the fairy queen
or wherever. And so there are lots

992
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:19,560
of parallels. And once again,
as Steve have mentioned in there about what

993
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:24,760
was happening in Wales, I've seen
people who are into the fee try and

994
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:31,520
explain all that particular encounter as fairies. But everybody involved in it thinks they

995
01:21:32,119 --> 01:21:39,479
encountered some form of alien And so
once again you've got people's beliefs overriding the

996
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:45,239
witness testimony because they want it to
be what they believe in, which isn't

997
01:21:45,319 --> 01:21:50,600
fair because it's treating the witness with
no respect. Brandy and I think when

998
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:55,039
I've spoke to other people, you
will hear people talk about dog man encounters

999
01:21:55,279 --> 01:21:58,199
and bigfoot researchers will say no,
they didn't see a dog man they saw

1000
01:21:58,199 --> 01:22:01,479
a big foot, who are just
mistaken. Well, they're clearly describing a

1001
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:06,560
dog, they're not describing a hairy
ape human type thing. Oh no,

1002
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:14,319
they're wrong. And therefore you're taking
that witness's account and manipulating it to fit

1003
01:22:14,359 --> 01:22:16,039
into what you want it to be. And that's not fair, and it's

1004
01:22:16,079 --> 01:22:24,640
also bad research because then the water
gets mudded even more and it completely takes

1005
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:28,880
the experience away from that person that's
had it and puts it in the realm

1006
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:32,479
of the person writing about it instead, which isn't fair either. And therefore

1007
01:22:33,319 --> 01:22:38,600
you have to unpick all these things
and try and deal with the initial account

1008
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:45,239
rather than get what gets reported.
Because another thing that Steve mentioned one of

1009
01:22:45,279 --> 01:22:48,239
the things that always used to get
on my nerves about the flat Woods monster

1010
01:22:48,279 --> 01:22:53,079
cases. You would always see so
many reports where they talk about the dog

1011
01:22:53,279 --> 01:22:59,760
dying and it didn't the dog didn't
die, right, And people now still

1012
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:01,680
say that the dog died in it, even though it's a world recorded Even

1013
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:05,119
witnesses have said the dog didn't know. There's nothing wrong with the dog.

1014
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:11,239
But because certain reporters have tried to
sort of escalate it make it more terrifying,

1015
01:23:11,279 --> 01:23:13,800
that well, they can't say people
died, but we can kill the

1016
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:18,800
dog off. Then it gives it, it gives it a more frightening theme.

1017
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:23,479
But when you look at the original
report, there's no mention of this

1018
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:27,239
dog dying. It's one of those
it just seems to happen along the way

1019
01:23:27,319 --> 01:23:30,439
that Now you can always tell the
quality of a researcher, because if they

1020
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:34,199
repeat the dog dying, then they've
not researched the original case. They've researched

1021
01:23:34,199 --> 01:23:40,000
a book about the case exactly.
They're just slappy research. They just are

1022
01:23:40,039 --> 01:23:45,439
repeating what somebody else has said and
tying in with all this. David Politis

1023
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:49,439
a missing four one one in one
of his books actually mentions the fairy faith,

1024
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:54,560
and he talks about some of the
traditions brought over from the Old Country

1025
01:23:54,720 --> 01:24:00,760
to Newfoundland. And you know how
this young boy was out there picking berries.

1026
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:03,960
Another another thing that it's you know, I don't think I'm going to

1027
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:08,560
go out and hang out on a
boulder field or pick berries anywhere. People

1028
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:13,720
just seem to, you know,
I I've looked at UHT David Politis's uh

1029
01:24:14,079 --> 01:24:16,760
uh list, you know. And
also people that have like a some kind

1030
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:20,000
of physical melody. Well, I
live sometimes too, so I think you'll

1031
01:24:20,039 --> 01:24:25,840
see I'm not going to be limping
picking berries in a boulder field because you

1032
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:28,600
know I want to. I want
to wear the shirt at the end of

1033
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,359
the line, right, yes,
right, yeah. The one thing I've

1034
01:24:31,399 --> 01:24:34,279
learned about David's work is don't be, don't be, don't be leading the

1035
01:24:34,279 --> 01:24:39,000
group, and don't be at the
back of the gad that's right. And

1036
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:43,960
and I'm a slow guy with short
legs called you know, always go in

1037
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:45,600
the middle. You've got safety in
numbers as long as they're around you,

1038
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:49,239
Steve. But supposedly they're supposed to
take I think bread with them in case

1039
01:24:49,319 --> 01:24:54,039
the the the fay comes up to
try and get them. They give them

1040
01:24:54,079 --> 01:24:57,359
the bread and they'll just go away
or it protects them somehow. Well,

1041
01:24:57,399 --> 01:25:00,439
this boy didn't bring bread with him, and he van for about four days.

1042
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:04,720
He shows up later and he is
in a stupor. He's befuddled,

1043
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:10,479
like so many of the people in
David's books. That that the ones that

1044
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:14,800
survive, those I mean, it's
tragic when you hear about all the people

1045
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:18,039
that have perished, but the uh, the ones that come back and have

1046
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:24,359
especially young children that try to describe
what has happened to them, and it's

1047
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:29,039
just so bizarre. Yeah, I
mean, there's a very famous one of

1048
01:25:29,039 --> 01:25:31,920
those. When he was speaking about
that about the were they brother and sister

1049
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:35,920
and the brother had a speech impediment, he couldn't talk properly, and the

1050
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:41,399
sister vanished for a couple of days, and then she was found wandering around

1051
01:25:41,399 --> 01:25:45,920
the roadside about three or four days
later, and it had rained for four

1052
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,560
days, and when they found her
she was dry. Yes, yeah,

1053
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:54,600
And he couldn't explain what had happened
because he couldn't talk right. And it

1054
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:59,399
seems to target people that can't explain
what happened. And then that the children

1055
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:04,600
sometimes that are found fifteen miles away, fortunately alive, but uh, you

1056
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:09,000
know, over a mountain range,
and you wonder, Yeah, so that's

1057
01:26:09,079 --> 01:26:14,119
that's just you know, that's just
mystery piled on mystery. So I have

1058
01:26:14,279 --> 01:26:17,520
to ask, uh, Brandy,
Paul, why do we do this?

1059
01:26:18,199 --> 01:26:27,439
Why do we punish ourselves? Because
I like things where I don't know what

1060
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:31,680
the reason is. I do too, you know what it is. It's

1061
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:39,279
like all this is a movie directed
by David Lynch. Hey, that's okay,

1062
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:42,840
yeah, but with Lynch man,
did you did you ever see Lost

1063
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:46,439
Highway? Go it? Lord?
My left my left brain was trying to

1064
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:50,880
figure the thing out, and my
right brain kept saying forget it, forget

1065
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:56,239
it, forget it. But were
you sad when it was over? No?

1066
01:26:56,640 --> 01:27:03,000
I couldn't. My headache was gone. I think it's one of There

1067
01:27:03,039 --> 01:27:08,239
are very few films that give me
creaks, but David David Lynch's films all

1068
01:27:09,319 --> 01:27:13,359
you know, I've said this before
on other films I've done. He's one

1069
01:27:13,359 --> 01:27:17,560
of those filmmakers who has never strayed
from his belief in how he creates a

1070
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,760
story. And often when you finish
watching a David Lynch film, you have

1071
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:27,600
no idea what's happened. And I
think that's that's the sign of a really

1072
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:32,319
good director, because sometimes you can
kind of see what's coming an hour before

1073
01:27:32,359 --> 01:27:35,279
it happens, or you can see
the twist. And the thing with Lynch

1074
01:27:35,359 --> 01:27:38,600
is you might see the twist,
but then he's got another two on top

1075
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:43,720
of it. Yeah. Well,
I love twin peaks, including Return.

1076
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:48,880
But and he can do a straight
narrative. I mean, I'm sure you've

1077
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:54,720
seen The Elephant Man, Yes,
wonderful film. Yes, excellent film,

1078
01:27:55,079 --> 01:27:59,720
Brandy, any other questions before we
sign off for tonight, Well, I

1079
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:01,920
just kind of want to. I
guess put it out there that after we

1080
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:09,159
were talking about the politest missing and
things, something that Paul said made me

1081
01:28:09,319 --> 01:28:19,319
wonder if maybe those people that were
taken or went missing were also people that

1082
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:30,600
have had maybe even unreported experiences in
the past and are susceptible to whatever it

1083
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:36,479
is that caused them to disappear,
even though they may not have reported that

1084
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:44,880
they've been observing strange phenomena. I
think, I think sometimes with things like

1085
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:46,640
this, this this is the thing
when when weird things, as me and

1086
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,840
Steve were talking about when we were
talking when Steve kindly joined me on my

1087
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:55,560
show, Brandy was one of the
things that that Kiel and other research is.

1088
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:59,520
Tony Heey is another one that they
they want to know what the experiences

1089
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,640
had for bread bakst as well as
everything else, and they want to know

1090
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:05,279
everything else. And I think when
somebody disappears, I mean, this is

1091
01:29:05,319 --> 01:29:09,399
the thing about some of the four
one one cases. Some of them are

1092
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:15,720
terrifyingly strange because they make no sense, and you've got people who are with

1093
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:26,600
people and they just vanish, completely
disappear, and sometimes we don't get the

1094
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:30,239
opportunity. As you say, it's
only the people that survive it or come

1095
01:29:30,319 --> 01:29:35,039
back. But I think once again, I mean David, to be fair,

1096
01:29:35,119 --> 01:29:42,279
does has interests in other fields.
He's not just focused on missing people.

1097
01:29:42,279 --> 01:29:45,359
He's obviously done he's written books,
you know, obviously the Hoopler Project,

1098
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:49,079
and he's obviously in his latest documentary
he's looked into some sort of UFO

1099
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:54,840
connections as well. And obviously David
over the years has often said that there

1100
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:59,880
isn't these cases, There isn't a
one size fits all. You can make

1101
01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:02,720
mind up as to what you think's
going on, and then you'll come across

1102
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:10,119
a case where it doesn't work because
I sat there watching and listening to them

1103
01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:13,239
and I'm thinking, yeah, these
people are being taken by Bigfoot. And

1104
01:30:13,239 --> 01:30:15,840
then you're like, well, no, that can't happen because somebody's in the

1105
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:18,000
middle of a city. So you
know, Bigfoot's not going to turn up

1106
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,880
in a cab, you know,
uber it and into the city center and

1107
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:26,760
take somebody and nobody's going to notice
that, are they or they're not all

1108
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:30,800
being zapped aboard something. Because you've
got people where nobody sees anything. There

1109
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:33,680
are strange things that go on at
the same time. You know, people

1110
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:41,079
will hear weird noises. There's that
case from Whereabouts. It was the hunting

1111
01:30:41,119 --> 01:30:45,279
party and there there was a group
of them. They're all like two hundred

1112
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:48,439
yards apart, and one of them
just completely vanished off his own property.

1113
01:30:50,119 --> 01:30:54,399
And one of the witnesses who was
there says, the weirdest thing was,

1114
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:59,399
I heard a massive crack, like
a trap shutting. And I can't remember

1115
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:01,399
one that particular case was, but
it was an old guy and all him

1116
01:31:01,399 --> 01:31:03,640
and all his friends and family were
out hunting. They were I think they

1117
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:10,039
were pulling the deer in, and
he vanished two hundred yards away from on

1118
01:31:10,119 --> 01:31:14,119
either side of him, disappeared.
They didn't find any trace of him at

1119
01:31:14,159 --> 01:31:16,239
all. They drained the swamps,
they searched everything, they did the grid

1120
01:31:16,279 --> 01:31:21,199
patterns where they just search everything,
where they fine tooth comb nothing. And

1121
01:31:21,279 --> 01:31:25,279
you think, well, how can
somebody like that disappear when they're when you

1122
01:31:25,279 --> 01:31:29,800
would essentially say that they're surrounded by
people. You know, it's yes,

1123
01:31:30,079 --> 01:31:32,319
you've got stories of people wandering off. All these people who go hiking on

1124
01:31:32,359 --> 01:31:34,920
their own, you think, well, you kind of asking for trouble there

1125
01:31:35,279 --> 01:31:40,880
wherever happens, you know. So
if Steve ever suggests going for a hike,

1126
01:31:41,239 --> 01:31:43,600
Brandy, I think you need to
take at least three or four other

1127
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:46,079
people with you. And what I've
learned is you need to have a GPS

1128
01:31:46,119 --> 01:31:49,640
tracker on a satellite phone at all
times. And obviously some of you guys,

1129
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:55,359
depending which state you're in, a
gun they'll definitely wipe me to go

1130
01:31:55,399 --> 01:32:01,880
because I'm a slow one. They
figure they're sick. Well, remember remember

1131
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:05,560
the bizarre case and even David Polita
said, this is one of the most

1132
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:12,960
bizarre he's ever seen. Is where
a young boy he made the family anonymous

1133
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:16,319
because he didn't want people bugging them, and the boys disappears for a couple

1134
01:32:16,319 --> 01:32:20,840
of days. He wakes up in
some bushes somewhere and uh, and then

1135
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:26,399
he goes home and he uh.
He's very quiet about what happened. And

1136
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:30,840
then when he sees his grandmother,
he eventually tells her that he saw her

1137
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:34,760
grand his grandmother's double, but it
was in a cave or a dungeon.

1138
01:32:35,159 --> 01:32:41,600
It was very much like a UFO
abduction. Yeah, and it's just just

1139
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:45,279
so strange. And he said there
were she was he knew she wasn't his

1140
01:32:45,399 --> 01:32:49,600
grandmother because she had these sparkly lights
around her head, and he called her

1141
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:54,600
a robot. And then there were
other people this kind of like suspended animation

1142
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:58,159
standing around there, because called the
mother robots. And I thought, my

1143
01:32:58,399 --> 01:33:01,119
god, and I think about you
know, when I'm reading Paul Sinclair's books,

1144
01:33:01,199 --> 01:33:04,439
kind of still kind of fresh in
my mind, when he's trying to

1145
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:10,439
deal with the stuff that happened to
him personally and people that have had experiences,

1146
01:33:11,359 --> 01:33:15,239
nothing seems to make sense. You
know. We so desperately want a

1147
01:33:15,359 --> 01:33:19,920
narrative beginning, middle, and end, some kind of solution, but it

1148
01:33:20,199 --> 01:33:25,239
just doesn't seem to exist in this
very often. Yeah, I mean you've

1149
01:33:25,239 --> 01:33:29,079
got I mean another prime example.
He's not young boy two or three years

1150
01:33:29,079 --> 01:33:31,439
ago who disappeared for three days.
When they found him, he said,

1151
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:35,319
oh, it's all right. A
bear was looking after me. Oh yeah,

1152
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:40,039
yeah, So I know enough about
Bear Steve to know that they don't

1153
01:33:40,079 --> 01:33:45,600
tend to look after little children.
No, I imagine, I imagine unless

1154
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:51,439
he had some porridge. Maybe not
all I did. Now that's another show.

1155
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,119
So Yeah, it's baffling, isn't
it. Really? Well, Paul,

1156
01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:00,600
I think I think we'll wrap it
up here for now, but I

1157
01:34:01,199 --> 01:34:05,119
really hope you'll come back because I
can't tell you how much I knew this

1158
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:09,840
was going to be a great conversation, but it was just fantastic talking to

1159
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,600
you again. Oh well, thank
you, thank you for inviting me.

1160
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:17,760
I've had a blast. Thank you
both, and please tell us your contact

1161
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:24,840
information and about your show. You
can find Mysteries and Monsters across most social

1162
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:30,079
media networks and it's available on all
other podcast platforms, so you can find

1163
01:34:30,079 --> 01:34:33,039
the show on there. And also
my other show which I do, which

1164
01:34:33,119 --> 01:34:38,760
is The Ghost Story Guys, which
is primarily dealing with the paranormal, which

1165
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:44,800
I co host with my good friend
Brennan Stole from Canada, and that's first

1166
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:48,279
hand accounts of people's paranormal experiences,
though we do get the odd weirder one

1167
01:34:48,399 --> 01:34:53,760
from other realms, and that's also
available everywhere. So just look for Mysteries

1168
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:58,720
and Monsters and The Ghost Story Guys. Excellent and Brandy, any parting thoughts

1169
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:02,159
or questions, No, it's just
been a great times, great conversation,

1170
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:06,199
well, very good and Paul,
I'm going to hold you to that,

1171
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:10,560
even though I'm the guy that ripped
up fake magazine. I want you to

1172
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:14,920
forgive me and I want you to
come back sometime. I'd be delighted and

1173
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:16,560
honored. And like I said,
I had a lovely time. So thank

1174
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:21,600
you both for indulging and putting it
with my robbling Listen. It has been

1175
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:26,880
fantastic. Everybody stand by. Let
me do my clothes out here. The

1176
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:30,359
High Strangeress Factor was created by Steve
wd and Andy Mercer and his copyrighted on

1177
01:35:30,359 --> 01:35:34,680
the Paranormal UK Radio network. I
want to thank our fearless leaders here at

1178
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:40,800
the network, Irene Alan Block,
Mark Johnson and Andy Mercer. Andy also

1179
01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:45,000
is producer and composer of the closing
theme for the show. Also Brian Zeller,

1180
01:35:45,199 --> 01:35:48,760
who composed the opening for The High
Strangest Factor. I can also be

1181
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:55,000
heard on Mac Maloney's Military X Files
Weekly as a correspondent on this same network

1182
01:35:55,359 --> 01:35:59,760
and many other platforms, and I
am Steve Ward, your humble host here

1183
01:36:00,039 --> 01:36:04,600
on The High Strangeness Factor. Displaced
Michigander deep in the Ohio Valley, living

1184
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:10,880
on the same road that the Wing
Garuda pursued Automobiles in nineteen sixty six in

1185
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:15,840
Point Pleasant, West Virginia. Thank
you all for listening, Andy Mercer and

1186
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,159
I will see you all again in
a fortnight. Take care,