WEBVTT

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Big Food and on with Cliff and
Bobo. These guys are you favorites,

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so like to say subscribe and raid
it five stary and greatest on yesterday and

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listening watching them always keep its watching. And now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and

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James Bobo Fay. Hello Bobo?
How you doing man here? Do you

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get what's going on? Cliff?
All sorts of stuff as usual. I

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had a pretty eventful weekend. We
can get it out a little bit in

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the members section here because we have
a great guest when I was take too

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long for it. But remember those
fake stompers I mentioned to you last time.

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Yeah, I dug a little bit
deeper. Last Friday, I went

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and interviewed two gentlemen. One of
the gentlemen was one hundred and one years

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old. The other gentleman was only
ninety four years old. I think it

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was ninety four. Yeah, so
like two hundred years of dudes in the

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room, you know, plus me, And it was interesting. I didn't

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get a lot of answers of what
I was looking for, but I got

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some clarification about a couple of things. But I guess the most important thing

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about all that stuff is looking back
into the interview with the guy who gave

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me the stompers, because part of
the deal with me getting the stompers was

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he's going to tell me when he
used them, the best of his recollection

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and stuff. I tracked it down. Sure enough, I am ninety nine

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percent sure those are the same stompers
that made the footprints that Barbara Wasson cast

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in nineteen seventy four. I believe
December nineteen seventy four. If you have

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a copy of Barbara Wahson's book,
Sasquatch Apparitions. Barbara was one of the

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early researchers in the nineteen seventies,
one of the only female researchers at the

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time, a pioneer really in a
lot of ways, using data, crunching

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numbers, working in the field with
a bunch of other people, and collaborating

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with them. Part of John Green's
crew back in the early days. Is

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a fantastic bigfooter. Yeah. She
starts her book Sasquatch Apparitions telling the story

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of these tracks. And I'll be
darned if the guy who gave me those

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stompers, who I got the stompers
from, he said the first time I

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used them. It was down in
southern Oregon at this one location, and

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sure enough, that's where she's talking
about. Oh man, Yeah, well,

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you know it's unfortunate. But at
the same time, now we know

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she'd want another truth. Yeah,
she would want another truth. I think,

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you know, she definitely would want
o the truth. But nowadays,

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you know, I have the original
cast. There's never been a copy made

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of it. By the way,
I owned the original cast because the NABC

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owns the entire Barbara Wasson collection of
course for our archives. But I got

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out the cast, I got out
the stompers, And not only does a

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story match, but the actual prints
match as well. So that's unfortunate in

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one way and good in another way. But you know what makes me wonder

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all these eighteen inch foot prints and
stuff like that, this because this is

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eighteen inches, I think, I
just think that's too big, man.

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I think that the males have I
think the big males feet that are fifteen

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or sixteen inches long. I think
those real, real big ones. I

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want to take a real close look
at a lot of these things. I

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bet some of them aren't real,
and some are of course slippage as well,

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because I always say, we have
a footprint of an individual who has

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fourteen inch feet that left an eighteen
and a half inch footprint. But speaking

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of tracks, I got something good. I think you're gonna like it.

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You mightn't want to put in your
museum in some form. I got a

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message today from Eric the big Foot
Museum and Willowkirk. And after that we

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had that meeting with the McCoy's with
Dave McCoy and he called his brothers and

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cousins and all that soil McCoy's son. They listened to the podcast and they

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are stoked. They're like, oh, we're so glad to hear our Fallow

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getting the respect he deserves, you
know, in recognition. And they lit

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a fire on their looking gung ho
for everything, and they found a original

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from the first time he cast tracks
the trackway. Eric got a copy of

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a three minutes of film of them
casting it. It's a little washed out

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with you know, to you light, I guess, but it's pretty good.

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And he said it's decent enough.
And I thought nat Click could put

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that on a little loop for some
of those Bluff Creek display or something.

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Oh yeah, yeah, if I
can get a hold of it. I

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can digitize it and give him back
the original so they still own it the

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permission to use it in the shop. It'd be fantastic, Yeah, because

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we have we have those We own
those pictures from him Palm and sil McCoy

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was directly involved in that stuff,
right. You know, I am planning

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on coming down. I'm going to
come down this summer and hang out.

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Maybe you can come out with me
or something, Bose. It's been a

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while since we've been in the woods
together, but I do want to see

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how Bluff Creek fared during all that
fire and stuff. And I definitely planned

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and dropping by the museum and talking
to Eric. I had a great conversation

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with him when he called. And
you know, he's not running the Willow

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Creek Museum, but he's deeply involved
in it, and I'm clearly running this

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museum. So we have a lot
to talk about and some collaboration might be

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a foot no pun intended. Yeah, Yeah, I'm glad he's thereon macas

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he's got plans for us, So
that's great. We could talk about to

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this during the member section because there's
always stuff to talk about the member section.

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Plus we always take questions every single
week from our members. We'll get

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to that later, but I don't
want to keep our guests on the line

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much longer because I'm excited about this
one, and some people out there might

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be puzzling about that. Because we
have a paranormal guest on and Cliff's excited

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about it. Well you'll see why
here. I think this is gonna be

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great. Yeah, he's cool.
I was on his show a couple of

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times. He's a good dude.
And of course, if you are interested

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in here and what But when I
talk about in the member section, we're

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not hiding it from you. But
you know, if you're interested in becoming

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a member, there's a link in
the show notes, and we get an

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extra episode every Thursday, so you
get pretty much twice the Cliff and Bobo.

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All right, we let's jump into
our guests tonight, and then I'm

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very very pleased to have our friend
on. Dave Schrader is our guest tonight.

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He's a ghost dude. That's how
I know him, Because you know,

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I don't watch a lot of TV
and stuff in general, but I

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do know Dave from doing various gigs
around town and whatnot. He's been on

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a couple of panels with me and
just I always have a great time speaking

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with him. He's been on a
number of television shows at the Holser Files

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The Ghost of Devil's Perch Where are
two of the most recent ones. But

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I think he's been on countless ones
really so I've never counted them, that's

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for sure. But right now I
think he has a very popular podcast called

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Paranormal sixty And So Dave, Dave
Schrader, welcome to big Foot and Beyond.

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I'm so glad you can join us. Well, thank you both for

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having me on. I appreciate this. You know, I've had Bobo on

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my show when I used to be
on Darkness Radio, and he was so

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popular that I think we ended up
having him back the next night to continue

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our conversation and had a great time. So, and Cliff, you and

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I always just seem to miss each
other when availability would open up. But

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I'm glad I get a chance to
visit with you now and this is fantastic.

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Thanks for having me in. Well, you know, it's hard to

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have just one one helping of Bobo. You always want to have seconds when

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you have that dish, you know, no doubt nice. And you know,

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I don't do a lot of podcasts
nowadays because I work on one,

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you know, and it's like,
you know, I bet a maid's house

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is dirty, for example. You
know. So I don't do a lot

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of podcasts in my off time,
but I'd be happy to do yours anytime.

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Just give me a holler let me
know. So oh, you know

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it, love to have you kaman
and chat and catch up our audience on

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all things cryptied as well. That's
such a huge, huge following that it's

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strange to me, you know,
as a guy who's been in the paranormal

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field actively as a radio show host
for eighteen years. First with Darkness Radio,

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I was a fill in host on
Coast to Coast for five years,

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and then I've been doing my new
podcast, The Paranormal sixty for the last

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three years. It's always amazing to
me that I could come out with some

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of the most unbelievably amazing stories of
reincarnation or demonic possession or hauntings that are

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making the Amityville look like kiddie play. But then I do an episode on

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Bigfoot and I get multiples of downloads, and I would get on any other

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episode and it's great to see that
that interest in fascination continues, but it's

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kind of confounding and I'd actually love
to pick both of your brains. There's

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so much going on in the world
and the concept that, you know,

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alien disclosures kind of out there.
Now there's ghost shows everywhere, but there's

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always just one, maybe two big
foot style shows going on. Why do

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you think there's so much excitement that
continues in the field of cryptozoology because it's

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real, Yeah, the real animals. It's as simple as that. I

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mean, people wonder when the people
who don't think sasquatches are real wonder when

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the whole thing's gonna go away.
And it's like that's like asking, well,

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gosh, you know what is this
whole elk thing gonna go away?

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You know what is this whole black
bear thing gonna go away? I'm tired

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of it? I mean, are
people gonna be finished talking about it?

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It's like, no, there's always
gonna be hunters, you know, they're

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always gonna there's gonna be outdoors people
and there are always gonna be sasquatches around

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because they're just here. You know. It is persistent because of the reality

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of the species. I like it, and I love the fact that people

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have this ongoing fascination when and again, being a guy on the outside and

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having watched your shows and the other
shows that have come out regarding cryptids and

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Bigfoot in specific, it's it's always
fascinating to me that there's such fleeting amounts

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of what would be considered really amazing
evidence that I've had a chance to see.

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But yet that's enough to just keep
people really intrigued by the concept that

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there might be this, whether it's
a ghostly creature, an interdimensional being,

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or just a zoological creature we have
not yet identified. It's fun to watch

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people really glom onto this and have
such a deep love and respect and fondness

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for that specific creature. Yeah.
I think it might have something to do

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with that we see a little bit
of ourselves in them, you know,

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because they're shaped like us, for
example, you know, like the general

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morphology of a human being sort of, even though they're very very different from

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us obviously in pretty much every aspect, but they are kind of like us,

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and I think we kind of see
that and glom onto it in the

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same sort of way that back in
the day you know, like nineteen sixties,

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nineteen seventies, people got a kick
out of, like watching it,

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seeing a chimpanzee in a suit or
something like that. Right, you know,

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I think that there's something akin to
that. I'm not sure what that

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word would be, but I think
there's something akin to that. It's just

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unfortunately, I always find it unfortunate
how the depiction that the media gives the

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subject and also the researchers. You
know, the researchers are often depicted very

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very poorly, like gullible tinfoil hat
wear and weirdos, and mind you,

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some of us are. But the
subject itself deserves such a higher level of

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respect than what I feel it gets
on television and the internet and whatever else.

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But at the end of the day, the subject is here, It

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is real, and the animals are
real, just perfectly normal animals out in

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the woods, and as long as
they're walking around, the mystery of the

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subject will also be walking around,
at least until Discovery Day whenever. That

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is so, Just like Tenacious Ty
is saying, which is you know that

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Mother Effer is real, real,
real, real sasquatch is real. There

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you go, yeah, I think
you you'd have to finish that. I'm

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not sure everybody would know that they
were. They actually said that you don't

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know the Sasquatch song by ten Acious
D, I do not, You don't

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squash Your love is real. That's
great. It's an epic ballad and we'll

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have some really hard rocking parts as
well. It's really the quintessence of prog

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rock in some ways. See nobody's
writing good ghost story songs anymore. Yeah,

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you know what, why not?
Because there's a there's a there's a

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whole lot of Sasquatch songs. So
what's up with that? Where the artists

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in the ghost world? How come
they're not doing that? I don't you

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know, I don't know. I
mean there might be, they're just not

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as vocal about it, and it's
just a topic that you don't hear coming.

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But I like one of my favorite
all time songs of any genre is

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Charlie Daniel's Band The Legend of Wooly
Swamp and the Ghostly Stories and just the

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concept of being deep out in the
woods and not knowing your surroundings and just

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how dangerous it could be, and
how dangerous it is for the three brothers

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that go and Seek of the Fortune
that is told to be out there.

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But I just love that ghost story. That's a has been one of my

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favorites, and I love the fact
that it was all in a song format.

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But of course, Charlie Daniels also
did The Devil down in Georgia,

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so there seems to be a lot
of spiritual or you know, songs along

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in his repertoire his songbook. Perhaps
could it be, And I don't know,

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I'm assuming a fair number of ghost
people listen to this. Maybe they

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don't they've had enough of me.
I don't know, but perhaps could it

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be that ghost people don't sing very
well? You know, I'm not gonna

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even put that out there because I'm
a huge fan of Bruce Springsteen and he's

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got a bunch of songs about ghosts, and even as a song called The

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Jersey Devil, So I'm going to
give him the credit where credit is due.

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At least, I know one guy's
still putting out some songs with paranormal

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slants and themes to them. Maybe
he absorbed everybody else's talent. Yeah,

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that would be the only excuse that
I can understand. I don't know,

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I'm just messing with the ghost community. So because you know I'm not anti

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ghosts, I get a lot of
that in the shop or whatever. If

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I'm out on a gig at one
of these speaking deals, people come up

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to me, he says, I
know you're not a paranormal guy, and

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I know this in blahblah. Well, you don't know much because you know

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I told you on stage. Remember
when we did the Oregon big Foot Conference

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last year, I told you my
ghost story in front of everybody. You

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know, like I do, think
paranormal stuff happens, I just don't know

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what that stuff is, and I
under no circumstances to I think sasquatches are

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in any way paranormal. You know, But that's just a when you look

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at the weird fields that you know, you and I and everybody else looks

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into. If you want to put
that under the umbrella of unknown or supernatural

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or paranormal, I said, eh, okay, But sasquatch is a very

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very small slice of that pie,
and that's a very very boring slice of

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that pie in some ways, because
there isn't, in my opinion, anything

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paranormal about it. But I'm into
all other weird things. How do you

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think I got into big Foot in
the first place, is my thought.

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You know, like, clearly you're
not like a perfectly normal person who just

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happens to be interested in sasquatches.
Whoa whoa, whoa, Bob, if

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you're gonna if you're gonna argue now
that you're a perfectly normal person, I

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don't even know what to say to
you. I am, he is one

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00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.799
of the most normal people. He
knows well. I actually I've hung out

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of your house for a week or
so at a time, up in humblet

224
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.679
and between you know, you and
Jesse Legend and a heavy metal pat and

225
00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.919
rubber arm Joe and all your other
weird muppet friends that come by. You

226
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:22.399
know, I guess you are pretty
normal exactly. But didn't you tell me

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00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.720
once that I'm the most normal person? You know, you're the most normal

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00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:30.759
person that introduced to my parents as
a friend. Oh okay, yeah,

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00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.120
you're the token normal friend. Of
course, I am. You had a

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00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:41.120
job back then. I've failed you. I've failed you well anyway, Dave,

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00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.120
Dave, So I've got a couple
questions for you now. Again,

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I don't watch much TV. Maybe
this is already out there or something.

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Like that, but specifically the Holser
Files, Right, that was one of

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00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.960
the shows you're on, And apparently
I was reading a little bit about it

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in preparation for the interview here,
and what I get is that there was

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00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:01.960
a historic ghost person or paranormal person
called doctor Hans Holzer and that that show

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00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.600
explored his files. Is that?
Is that the correct slant of the show?

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There the synopsis? Yeah, doctor
Hans Holzer had been around. You

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00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:13.919
know, he's a very pre eminent
paranormal investigator. They call him one of

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America's first ghost hunters. He had
a TV series known as ghost Hunters.

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00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.679
Long before the ghost Hunters TV series
came out. He was on Network news

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00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:30.759
all the time. He put the
Whaley House in San Diego on the map

243
00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:35.200
while investigating it with his friend Regis
Philbin, who captured weird experiences on film.

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He reduced, Yeah, if you
look online. As a matter of

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00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.080
fact, they did that Celebrity ghost
Stories or My ghost Stories a few years

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00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:48.559
ago where they would take some of
these celebrities back to the locations that you

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00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.279
know that upset them, that they
had these encounters with. And Reis talked

248
00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:56.279
very openly about his his paranormal encounters
at the Whaley House. Well, that's

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the weirdest thing I've heard all day. Yeah, good begun, doctor Holzer.

250
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He really you know, he wrote
over I think it was one hundred

251
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and eighty five books on just about
every angle of the strange and supernatural,

252
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:18.320
from witchcraft to UFOs, to miracle
priests, to ghosts and hauntings and famous

253
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.440
haunted locations, And like him,
I have such a love and fascination of

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history that it was just so when
they opened the door to me to let

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me in to investigate his files,
I jumped on it because when they first

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when they first reached out, they're
like, hey, Dave, you know,

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hey, we're aware of you.
We're interested in having you lead on

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a ghost show. And I'm like, oh, I think I'm good.

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00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:41.600
Thanks, And they were like,
well, no, this is TV.

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And I'm like, yeah, I
think i'm good. That's what I'm saying.

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00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.360
No, don't you understand that it's
going to be polite, right,

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00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.799
But I'm like, there's enough ghost
shows and I don't want to just be

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part of a cookie cutter cast.
And they're like no, no, no,

264
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.279
this is totally different, And I
said, how's it different? Well,

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it's just going to be three of
you. And I said, I

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think that show is called Ghost Adventures
and he goes, no, no,

267
00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.319
no, one of you is going
to be a medium and a psychic and

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00:17:03.359 --> 00:17:07.279
I said, oh, so it's
kind of like dead Files. No no,

269
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no, it's I can't tell you
until you agree that you want to

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be a part of this. And
I'm like, well, we're in an

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impasse then, because I'm not going
to be a part of something I don't

272
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know more about. So I signed
some thick phone book style NDA and as

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soon as I signed it, they
said, we're reopening the case files of

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doctor Hans Holzer and that's all they
got out of their mouths. And I'm

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like, I'm in, count me
in. This will be amazing, So

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I was willing to do that.
They had all the original video, photographs,

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audio recordings, handwritten notes, everything
he had done over his like forty

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five fifty year span of investigating the
supernatural. And I was, man,

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00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.640
I grew up reading Hans Holzer's books, so to get a chance to follow

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in his footsteps. And another interesting
tie I had to doctor Holzer was our

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radio show. We were the last
radio show that he did before he sadly

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passed away. Yeah, because he
lived until I think I remember a two

283
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.240
thousand and nine or something like that, so pretty much around two thousand and

284
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:10.119
eight, two thousand and nine that
he passed away. And you know,

285
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I became friends with his daughter,
Alexandra, and she was a part of

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00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:17.279
this program. So it really it
was a great opportunity. I'm glad we

287
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:22.079
got to do it for two seasons. I in all their haste to get

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00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.599
the show on the air, I
think they mis named it. You know,

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00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:30.039
Holzer Files is really cool if you
are a triedent and true paranormal fan

290
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.359
and know who doctor Hans Holzer was. But you know, he had passed

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00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:37.200
away in two thousand and eight,
two thousand and nine. He wasn't on

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00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.079
any of the big paranormal TV series
of our time here since you know,

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00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.799
the relaunching about two thousand and one, with all of the different glut of

294
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.759
paranormal style shows that came out,
so he wasn't as familiar. And I

295
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.400
kept telling him, could we let's
name the show Holzer's Ghost Files. I

296
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.440
think if the audience knows what,
you know, what the files are that

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we're investigating. Otherwise it sounds like
a seventies toctive show, and they didn't

298
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.079
change the name. We built,
you know, a nice gathering, but

299
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just not enough to keep us on
for a third season. It's hard to

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find a producer who had listen,
you know, and think that, oh,

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00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.519
the host that's been doing this for
thirty years may know a little bit

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00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.720
more about the subject than I do, because I've been researching this for six

303
00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.880
months. Yeah. No, I've
learned that in the world of TV,

304
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:27.359
everybody is smarter than you. So
I just, you know, nod and

305
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.759
smile and do my job the best
to my abilities. And that's that's all

306
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.119
I did. They rolled Cindy Case
of the Medium and I that were on

307
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:40.839
The Holzer Files over to another program
called The Ghosts of and we were brought

308
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.440
out to Butte, Montana to investigate. And we stayed there for a little

309
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:49.839
over ninety days, just living and
breathing and sweating in that same town with

310
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the people, and it was it
was a great experience. But holy cow,

311
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.119
what a bunch of weird paranormal things
are going on in that town.

312
00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:02.359
And there's everything from UFO sightings to
cryptids to ghosts and what they believe are

313
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.079
demons. So that was another head
trip to be a part of a program

314
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:11.039
like that. Stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will

315
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:23.880
be right back after these messages.
When so much variety of weird stuff happens

316
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.880
around a location in particular, do
you think it has more to do with

317
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:33.559
the people or the location itself.
There's people like Bobo, for example,

318
00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:34.160
I believe, and I don't want
to put words in his mouth. You

319
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.440
can refute this if you choose bobes, but like, he's very strong.

320
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.440
He's a strong advocate of the vortex
kind of idea, you know, or

321
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.400
the skinwasher or Skinwalker ranch thing out
in Utah, or any of these number

322
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.319
of things. You think it's a
location deal or is it a people deal.

323
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.839
I think it's a mixture of both. I think that like in the

324
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:59.359
case of Butte Montana, here you've
got this gorgeous land and it drew all

325
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.400
these people because of the minerals that
were in the earth, the silver,

326
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:06.279
the gold, and the copper,
which is really what was so big there.

327
00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:10.359
And you know they built this it
was the wild West. Baby.

328
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:15.039
There were you know, shootouts and
you had such a it was a mining

329
00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.960
town that were twenty four to seven, so did the brothels. There were

330
00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:23.799
blocks of whorehouses that ran twenty four
hours a day, and there were levels

331
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.759
to the whorehouses that you could visit
depending on how much money you made.

332
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:32.920
So there, you know, literally
there was elite on the top floor all

333
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:37.359
the way down to guys that were
making pennies. There was something for everybody,

334
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:38.839
and it was a town, you
know, in violence, steeped in

335
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:47.079
shootouts and fisticuffs and you know,
sex and violence and money and greed.

336
00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:51.640
And I think that that taints the
ground after a while, that that kind

337
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.039
of anxiety, that kind of stress, can have an impact and an effect

338
00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:00.319
on an area. And I don't
know if people are drawn to a specific

339
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:06.839
place because of the energy that's there, or do we create this rift,

340
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.880
this vortex because of the way we
treat a location, its history and the

341
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:17.119
people that walk that place before we
were there. Maybe one begets the other.

342
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:21.519
It's hard to say, because there
are some places that are extremely haunted

343
00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:26.240
that we have nobody died here.
We don't know why this is so active,

344
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.839
you know, And not only that, but they're seeing UFOs in the

345
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:34.240
sky and people in the neighborhood have
had bigfoot encounters, and it's just to

346
00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:38.039
me, it's astonishing because I can't
figure out what is it about this?

347
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:42.440
It ends up like an episode of
Stranger Things. It's just like Bobo loves

348
00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:48.640
these vortex these portal spots that just
seem to be a hotbed of activity of

349
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:55.920
many different styles. Interesting. Yeah, I wonder about those. Why is

350
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.319
it? I mean, because Native
Americans those are tens of thousands of years.

351
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:00.680
It's like, aren't more of their
ghosts scene? I mean, I

352
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.960
know they're scenes sometimes, but seems
like they should be seen a lot more.

353
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:10.000
That's a great question, and again
nobody has the one answer. I

354
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:15.559
often wonder though, if time is
not linear, if it is like the

355
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:19.240
string theory, and it's a big
ball of timey wymy wibbley wobbly stuff,

356
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:26.160
right, and it's could it be
that the timeline of eighteen hundred to nineteen

357
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:30.839
twenty twenty one happens to being,
you know, laying over the timeline of

358
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:36.000
two thousand to two thousand and thirty, And as time and space continue to

359
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:41.200
change and undulate, well, will
the next layer of time lay upon Native

360
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:47.039
American spirits or ancient Rome? Will
we see more of that taking place.

361
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.599
It also may have to do with
the belief systems of the locations. You

362
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:56.279
know, the native people and indigenous
tribes were so respectful of their dead and

363
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:02.039
did everything they could to put these
these people and beings and spirits to rest

364
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:07.880
that I think that there's not that
same dissension and even the brutal murders that

365
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:15.400
took place and this enfranchising these tribes
people, which is heartbreaking to talk about.

366
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:21.640
I think that they were on a
different level of evolution in a mindset

367
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:26.720
that although the death was not something
that they would have wanted or chosen,

368
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:32.079
I think they felt that in the
battle that they did to try to save

369
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:36.200
their people, save their culture,
they move on because it was a heroic

370
00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:38.559
deed. So I think there's some
elements of that. I also think it

371
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:44.160
also, you know, we see
these cyclical moments when paranormal seems to be

372
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.720
in resurgence, and there was that
eighteen hundreds to early nineteen hundreds, famine,

373
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.440
disease, pestilence, all of these
horrible things that were taking place,

374
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:57.799
and people were constantly calling out to
the spirit realm and spiritualists. Did we

375
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:03.880
rupture something in doing that? That
that's why we see that time era,

376
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.200
and we don't see the time era
of other places. And maybe the places

377
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:12.480
that do, say the Native American
spirits, are places like Skinwalker Ranch or

378
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.160
you know, deep in the wilderness
where we don't walk still, and that

379
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:23.480
may be where the indigenous spirits and
tribes people still gather. No, that

380
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.680
brings an interesting question to my mind, at least, at least I think

381
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.839
it's interesting researchers, at least in
Bigfoot. I don't know if this is

382
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:34.559
true in ghosts or not. Researchers
are honestly seem to be kind of few

383
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:40.279
and far between. Most of the
people in the Bigfoot world tend to be

384
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.720
like fans of the subject or ficionados, you know, but almost nobody has

385
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:48.359
really taken notes, like using Excel
sheets and you know that kind of stuff,

386
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.680
looking for patterns, and almost nobody
really, very very few people.

387
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.839
Are there people doing that in the
ghost field or are they doing the equivalent

388
00:25:56.839 --> 00:25:59.599
of going out and banging on trees
and listening for something and maybe bringing a

389
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:00.960
recording home, you know, which
is I guess, Like, I don't

390
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.119
know. I've seen a few minutes
of occasional ghost shows like I guess yelling

391
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.000
at a wall or something and saying
are you there? I don't know.

392
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:12.079
I know very little about the ghost
world, you know, I'd be very

393
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:15.680
honest. I know almost nothing about
all this, so this is all new

394
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.920
to me. We're not that different, Cliff. We go into dark areas

395
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.960
by ourselves and we do our own
versions of the whoop, hello, is

396
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.680
there anyone here? Knock on the
wall if you can hear me, and

397
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.279
you bang the walls hoping they're going
to bang back. So our shows are

398
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:37.799
not that different in that concept of
hoping finding a way to connect with something

399
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:44.039
and get those answers. But there
are a lot of different organizations that have

400
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:49.440
been working. The Ryan Institute UCLA
used to have a huge parapsychological department.

401
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:55.680
Doctor Barry Taff work there. Thelma, oh gosh, her last name is

402
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.319
escaping me. But there have been
a lot of different places and still that

403
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:07.119
continue to investigate these type of phenomenon
to understand it or try to, and

404
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:12.279
they take the time to corroborate evidence
and what they find. You know,

405
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.440
what are we able to tell?
My friend Bill Chappele, who is the

406
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:21.680
engineer, He's created so many amazing
fun interesting tools for the paranormal trade and

407
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:26.759
investigating ghosts. He will tell you
he's not necessarily a believer in ghosts.

408
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.799
He can't tell you what's activating these
pieces of equipment, but he'll take our

409
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:37.119
theories and build equipment around it as
an actual electrical engineer to see can these

410
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.400
things be influenced by an outside source. And he had a tool called the

411
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.839
Paranormal Puck and it was not real
flashy, it wasn't real pretty. You

412
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.839
plugged it into your laptop, you
ran the software, but it would calibrate

413
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.880
and tell you what the temperature is, what the do point average was,

414
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:57.400
what the geomagnetic principles of the area
you were in. It gave you all

415
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:03.119
of this background stuff that nobody really
cared about because everybody just wants to see

416
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.200
a ghost. And he had tons
of data, but nobody would bother to

417
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:12.000
look at the data in correlation with
what was taking place. It became more

418
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:17.880
of a thrill in an entertainment industry
than it did a scientific principle. And

419
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.720
I know I'm going to take heat
for saying that, because there are teams

420
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:25.759
out there that claim their scientific but
like you, where are there their reports?

421
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.920
Where is their scientific work and who
have they peer reviewed with? And

422
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.839
you know what's going on that just
doesn't exist anymore. Well so amongst the

423
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.519
data gatherers. So it sounds like
there are some which is which is good

424
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.359
to hear, of course, you
know amongst the data gatherers, has there

425
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:48.920
ever been a study already publishing or
what's the gist of the apparitions or whatever?

426
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.680
For Lafe a better term that are
observed? Are there are there a

427
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.519
predominance of a certain time period?
Kind of going back to what we were

428
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.359
talking about before, like our most
ghosts, you know, Victoria, for

429
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.559
example, Victorian era eighteen hundreds to
the early nineteen hundreds. It's like,

430
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:08.759
you know, usually in that roundhouse
of about maybe eighteen seventies to nineteen twenty

431
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.640
one, depending on the type of
garb, the things that they do or

432
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.759
say or have been witnessed doing.
But being a fan of science as well,

433
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:21.759
I'm not necessarily sure that we're seeing
a dead person in the way that

434
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:23.279
you think we are. Well,
which is what I want to ask you

435
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.960
next, like is that what we're
dealing with? Because I'm friends with a

436
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.759
fair number of ghost folks, and
it seems the jury is out like that.

437
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:36.039
They're not necessarily dead people that people
are encountering. So what's going on

438
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:40.880
you think? I think some of
it is time slip phenomena. I think

439
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:45.640
the concept that there are just points
where you can you know, you're sharing

440
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:51.279
a location. You're sharing a place
that has always existed and always will exist.

441
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:55.400
It's been in many different forms,
but the spot you're sitting on has

442
00:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.240
always existed and always will well after
you're gone and well before you were here.

443
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.480
And every person that treads that area
is like a page in a book,

444
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.079
and from time to time, I
think those pages align and you can

445
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.559
kind of see the text through one
page into another. And you know,

446
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:17.680
like the movie The Others with Nicole
Kidman where she's hearing these ghostly sounds and

447
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:22.319
voices and she's being tormented and spoiler
alert on a twenty year old movie,

448
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.400
it turns out that they're the dead
people and the voices she's hearing are people

449
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.279
from the future that are living in
that house. And I really do think

450
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:36.119
that there are elements of that that
have occurred. You know, ghost Hunters

451
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.240
did a TV episode when they went
to I think it was Mount Washington uh

452
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:45.480
And Hotel, and they were engaging
with the spirit and they you know,

453
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:47.759
Princess, can you hear us?
Can? Yes, I can hear you.

454
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:49.599
This is my room. Where are
you? What kind of game are

455
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.519
you playing? And she was going
to get security, So that tells me

456
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.240
in her consciousness, she must have
been in her room hearing these voices.

457
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:04.720
When I was at Waverly Hills Sanatorium
in Kentucky, it was a tuberculosis clinic,

458
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:10.000
tens of thousands of people reportedly died, and then it was a geriatric

459
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.279
home in hospital, and nurses and
doctors talked about it being haunted at its

460
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.880
time. And when we were there
investigating, I was with two other fellow

461
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.839
investigators. We rounded the corner and
a nurse walked around, stopped and looked

462
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.799
at us. Her eyes got huge, she turned and ran the other direction.

463
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:30.519
It's an old, dilapidated building at
that point, there aren't nurses working

464
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:34.000
there. What did we just witness? And to her, did she tell

465
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.279
somebody in her time era? I
just saw three ghosts in the hall.

466
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.000
I just saw three men that were
there. They came out of nowhere.

467
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:45.079
And you know that's what's so fascinating
to me about this. I can't give

468
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:51.359
you one specific answer to what this
phenomenon is how it happens, because I

469
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:56.359
think there's many different layers to hauntings, and that's what keeps me so fascinated

470
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.119
and intrigued by this. Is at
the Washington Hotel. The Wash in a

471
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:02.839
hotel in New Hampshire, Vermont up
there. Yeah, that's right, Yeah,

472
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:07.279
Mount Washington. We were there and
Moneymaker conjured up a ghost. Yeah.

473
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.799
We filmed Finding Bigfoot episode there.
That's where we stayed, and we

474
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:14.519
were out in the woods doing stuff
or whatever. But on our night off

475
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:17.039
or whatever, I wasn't involved in
all that because Melissa was on the crew

476
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:21.559
and I was hanging out with her. But but everybody else went ghost hunning

477
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:27.720
that night and weird stuff happened.
Well, our sound person or tech she

478
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:30.319
saw it. She saw it,
and uh, it was up in the

479
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:35.240
ceiling area, like scrolling around and
she didn't even know that that's where the

480
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.240
workers. It was like in this
one landing kind of like vestibule area or

481
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:43.119
whatever, and on the staircases and
they said, oh, yeah, that's

482
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:45.759
a really calm place to see it. But yeah, Moneymaker had his Himalay

483
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:51.880
like Tibetan Tibet like bowl, singing
bowl that he brought with him from Tibet

484
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:54.319
or from from the ball. Rather, he got one of those when we

485
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:57.359
were out there doing the eddy stuff, and he brought it and he goes

486
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.160
he's like doing the thing on and
having fun with it, right, and

487
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:07.559
the resonance of the bowl. Look, Native American and indigenous tribes, people

488
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:13.079
will talk about music and these things
that will help them connect to the spiritual

489
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.920
realm and to nature. I know
places that use singing bowls to try to

490
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:22.240
communicate with alien life forms. I
know people that use them in the spiritual

491
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:28.440
realm to try to communicate with angry
spirits and try to bring some harmony.

492
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.799
So it's interesting how there are commonalities
and threads throughout all of the different levels

493
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:37.799
of what's considered supernatural or paranormal.
And it is funny to me that Bigfoot

494
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.279
still falls under that umbrella for many
people. Right. The cryptids are still

495
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:47.200
in that realm of the supernatural,
and you know, just like they're cryptozoological

496
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:52.400
until we find one and now it
becomes zoological and it will no longer be

497
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.880
supernatural. It'll be just part of
our natural world. But it's interesting to

498
00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.119
me that there are these different layers
of the tapestry that still do seem to

499
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:07.440
connect things like Bigfoot sightings, alien
or UFO sightings, and haunted hotspots.

500
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:13.239
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond
with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right

501
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:22.199
back after these messages. You say, haunted, do you guys make a

502
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:29.280
delineation between older like entities that are
like spirits or demons or whatever you want

503
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.639
to call them, versus just human
souls like in a different time work kind

504
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:36.960
of thing. Yeah, That's what
I was mentioning is there's all of these

505
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:40.719
different layers to what a haunting could
be. And I think you're short sighted

506
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:45.320
if you just want to pigeonhole ghosts
are this, you know, aliens are

507
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:50.440
this. I think there's many different
possibilities to what these beings are, and

508
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:54.280
if we limit ourselves, it might
limit our ability to look at them more

509
00:34:54.320 --> 00:35:00.559
scientifically, to find a way to
communicate, find ways to and circumvent the

510
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:06.280
normalcy of communication of things that we'd
say, this can't be real, this

511
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:08.760
can't exist. So let's put our
mindset in a different way. If we

512
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:14.159
examine it differently, can we find
something that will actually make sense and start

513
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:17.800
to help us bridge that chasm and
understand more about the spiritual realm. I

514
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:22.159
think there's times that they knew more
two hundred years ago about ghosts and the

515
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:27.559
spiritual realm than we understand about it
now. Same with creatures, right,

516
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:32.760
And you know the reverence people had
for the mountain gorillas, but everybody thought

517
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:37.280
that it was a lie. It
wasn't until I think it's only been like

518
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.880
one hundred and seventy years, one
hundred and eighty years since gorillas were officially

519
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.119
found. It is like eighteen fifty
two or something like that. And mountain

520
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:47.599
gorillas, I believe we're nineteen oh
two. I probably am a year or

521
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:52.519
two often one of those. But
yeah, right, And isn't that absurd

522
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:58.079
to think that that far along in
our history, which is just a drop

523
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:01.239
of water and the microchasm of the
universal ocean that we're a part of.

524
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:07.320
That's such a small percentage that we
could say we've only known about this creature

525
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:12.360
legitimately for the last couple hundred years, something we take for granted. Good

526
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.519
girls have always been around. Yeah, I tell you know, what are

527
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:22.159
the things that makes me really lament
our situation in the human situation In some

528
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:27.880
ways is that most people don't realize
that science is in its infancy at this

529
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:32.679
moment, in its infancy one hundred
and thirty years ago, about we didn't

530
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:37.039
know about germs, for God's sake, you know, like we have barely

531
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.800
begun our journey into the unknown.
You know, most of our human history

532
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:47.440
has been a wash in superstition and
mythology. Essentially, the science wasn't even

533
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:51.719
a thing, you know, until
probably, I don't know, eighteen thirty

534
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:54.119
or something like that, eighteen fifty. Before that, they were called naturalists.

535
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:58.320
And then science wasn't even a thing. And we think we're all advanced

536
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:01.480
because we have, you know,
iPhones in our now now we're infants.

537
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:07.840
And before that it was witches and
shaman and it was magic, these things

538
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.400
that we were taking, these plant
extracts that they would crush up and then

539
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.719
give to you for headache powder,
and that's what we now call aspirin.

540
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:22.199
Right, it's so funny that science
is not that far along. Even in

541
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:29.760
this baffles my mind. We still
cannot figure out where consciousness exists in a

542
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:37.519
human being. We can't even define
what consciousness is. And death is constantly

543
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:42.519
changing what we believed even ten years
ago about death is radically different now,

544
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:46.719
and we're realizing that there may be
consciousness in a physical body once the heart

545
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:51.760
stops for up to four hours.
What do you think about this idea that

546
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:57.440
I've seen slowly start spreading, I
think amongst the paranormal world, and I

547
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.920
think that's some bigfooters fall into this
as well. And I don't think it

548
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:02.639
fits sasquatch stuff at all, of
course, But you know me, I'm

549
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:07.280
pretty practical about this whole animal thing. But the other paranormal stuff, I

550
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.159
think the jury's out. I don't
know anything about it. I'm coming from

551
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:12.559
a place of ignorance, and I'm
going to enjoy that ignorance. You know,

552
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.119
ignorance is bliss. I'm gonna be
pretty happy about this for the moment

553
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.519
because I don't know much. This
idea of like the grand unification theory of

554
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.400
the paranormal, where some people instead
of ghosts and demons and this and that's

555
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:29.559
and whatever is, they just refer
to it as the phenomenon. What do

556
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:31.639
you think about that? Or is
that boiling it down too much and maybe

557
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:37.280
disrespecting certain aspects of these other phenomenon. Well, I can see that element

558
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.000
of it. But I also see
the fact that if we just accept it

559
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:49.159
as one thing, that it becomes
less ominous because look, I can sit

560
00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.320
here and talk to you about ghosts
and demons because I've encountered things that I

561
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:58.199
would put into those categories. To
me, the concept of this hairy,

562
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.920
hominid, bipedal creature that could be
nine to fourteen feet tall depending on who

563
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:06.880
you speak to, that's there one
second, go on the next. That

564
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:13.320
would be an easy roll of the
eyes and snicker right about you guys actually

565
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:17.400
believe this thing exists. But then
I'm two seconds later talking about ghosts and

566
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:22.239
demons, which to somebody else sounds
ridiculous. So if we normalize it and

567
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:27.519
take away the stigma of well,
this is weird, that's not is the

568
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:31.480
theay folk. Is that any less
weird than Bigfoot? I don't think so,

569
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:36.760
because it's gone back in culture,
like the indigenous tribes have talked about

570
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:40.880
Bigfoot and have seen them as you
know, a fellow race of indigenous people

571
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:47.039
to a creature, to something almost
godlike in some instances, that aliens kind

572
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:51.079
of fit that same realm. Ghosts
fit that same realm. So if we

573
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:55.639
come together on one common ground and
say this is phenomenon, and this may

574
00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.320
all be tied together, it may
be different, but at least we take

575
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.480
the time to look at it.
Because if you take out part of science,

576
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.119
you take out you know, we're
examining blood, but we don't want

577
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:10.280
to look at platelets because platelets aren't
our thing. We're all about, you

578
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:14.920
know, white blood cells. Well, then you're missing a big part of

579
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:19.719
the full you know, spectrum of
the picture. So I think that by

580
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.119
having this kind of universal approach to
look at this, I think that could

581
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.400
be a healthier way for us all
to examine it. Take it a little

582
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:30.679
bit more seriously, and you know, the pegs will fall out for the

583
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:34.000
weak links, for the things that
don't make any sense. There's nothing word

584
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.840
about the faithfolk though, well James
Bobo faith. There's something pretty weird about

585
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:40.199
that one, right. But here's
the old thing. I remember having this

586
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:45.719
discussion with Rosemary Ellen Guiley. She
was the Queen of the Nighttime World,

587
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:50.039
another prolific author we lost a few
years ago, and speaker and teacher,

588
00:40:50.599 --> 00:40:53.039
and she she kind of put me
in my place one day because I was

589
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:57.840
laughing about the fact she had a
book about fairies coming out, and I'm

590
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:00.360
like, oh my god, seriously, and she's like, why is that

591
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:02.880
so stupid and funny to you?
And I'm like, they're fairies, that's

592
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.840
Disney stuff, and she goes,
well, Dave, do you realize how

593
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:12.719
many Disney movies have creatures and ghosts
in them? Do you scoff at that

594
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.320
because that's been represented in your shows? And I'm like, well, no,

595
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:21.320
but that's different. How is that
different? These stories predate ghost stories

596
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:25.760
in some instances. They will look
at the Fay and these elemental beings as

597
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:31.440
something that predate even Christianity, the
Gin and many things that are referred to

598
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:37.800
and referenced in the Bible that predate
known man in history. It's really kind

599
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:39.320
of compelling. And she gave me
another way to look at it. She

600
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:43.559
said, you'll look at Bigfoot and
say, yeah, that could be real.

601
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:45.920
You'll look at ghosts and say,
oh sure, and aliens of course.

602
00:41:46.039 --> 00:41:50.599
But the Fay, No, that
can't be possible. She said,

603
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:53.880
that's being ridiculous. There is something
to that. People have this, you

604
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:59.559
know, love and compassion and respect
for it in other countries. And then

605
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:04.400
I started reading news stories in the
two thousands, not not meaning that there's

606
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:07.760
been over two thousand new stories,
But I mean since the two thousands began,

607
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:15.079
I have found new stories where multiple
countries and cultures have diverted major roadways

608
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:22.320
to avoid troll houses or fairy rings
or fairy mounds or giant mounds because they

609
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:27.800
don't want to disturb that culture,
that being or set of beings. So

610
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:31.360
there must be something to it that
makes it much more real than we would

611
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:35.519
give it credit to. So you
know, I've learned to be open to

612
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:38.559
all of it. I don't scoff
at anything anymore, no matter how ludicrous

613
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:43.480
it may sound to me, because
just because it hasn't been my experience doesn't

614
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.280
mean that it isn't real. You
know, there is a parallel of that

615
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:50.159
in the Sasquatch world, even the
flesh and blood Sasquatch world, you know

616
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:53.119
where I tend to dwell, And
it's that this idea of relati hominoids,

617
00:42:53.360 --> 00:43:00.519
you know, Harry hominoids worldwide,
because almost certainly like the Iran, for

618
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:02.440
example, is not the Sasquatch.
It's a different species. But we don't

619
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.440
know that jury's out about the Joren
or the Yowie or even the Alma.

620
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.119
That the Alma has so many different
characteristics, and then there is actually a

621
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:14.000
footprint evidence of the Alma and it
doesn't seem to be a sasquatch, but

622
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:20.519
still, and the discovery of any
of those would benefit the all of the

623
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:24.559
others in that people would be more
open to their possibility. So perhaps there's

624
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:29.119
a that's a parallel of what you're
actually describing, but in the you know,

625
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:34.239
the unknown mystery ape world, right, And it's all fascinating and interesting

626
00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:37.519
that these cultures exist like this.
And I'll tell you what. There are

627
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.679
times where you can tell me your
story and your experience. I don't have

628
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.719
to believe it. And sometimes what
I find more fascinating than anything is why

629
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:49.639
you believe in these things. So
that's part of the human element, is

630
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:54.880
learning and exchanging of ideas and concepts
and seeing what might make sense to you

631
00:43:54.920 --> 00:44:00.800
once you've heard somebody else's theology or
belief system on it. Now, speaking

632
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.480
of believing, I know you're very
open to all sorts of things, but

633
00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:07.800
you believe sasquatches are real, right
in some sort of way? Right now?

634
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:10.679
Is that based on an experience or
is that because the evidence, or

635
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:14.920
is that you've heard so many stories
or what's going on there? Well,

636
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.199
listen like you guys. I grew
up in the era of In Search of

637
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:23.960
and I saw that footage when they
started sharing it of the Patterson Gamelin film.

638
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:29.199
I was also born in nineteen sixty
seven the same year, so that

639
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:34.199
had a fascination for me right that
footage came out, So I always thought

640
00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:37.960
that was cool, But I didn't
start taking notice of that until mid seventies

641
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:43.280
when it was on TV all the
time, and when I would go down

642
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:49.800
to visit my grandparents in seventy four
seventy five to Folly, Alabama. My

643
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:54.800
grandparents owned forty acres of property and
only about ten acres was livable. The

644
00:44:54.840 --> 00:45:01.519
rest was just wildness, right,
and there were snakes and water moccas and

645
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:07.480
snakes and alligators in the back because
they had ponds and water streams back there,

646
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.280
so it was not a safe place
to be as a kid. But

647
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:14.280
we used to go play in that
area all the time. And one time

648
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.559
my cousin and I were down by
the pond at probably about nine ten o'clock

649
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:22.000
in the morning fishing and we just
heard something big tramping around out there,

650
00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:24.239
and we kept looking at each other
kind of like, well, you're here.

651
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:28.400
I guess I'm okay, right,
it's that safety in numbers. But

652
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:31.960
it was big, whatever it was, and we could hear it stomping around.

653
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.480
And then finally at the back of
the pond there were these tall shrubs

654
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:42.360
and bushes that maybe eight nine feet
tall, and I see this hand come

655
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.599
up over the top of the bush
and it pushes the bush down. And

656
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:51.320
now I can see from about the
tip of the nose up of this being

657
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:55.360
that I believe was a sasquatch,
but it had a darker inset face.

658
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:01.480
It had this kind of blackish gray
maine and the hair came up over its

659
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:07.239
fingers like Chewbacca's hair. Right.
It wasn't just like you would think of

660
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.800
a gorilla. It was like long, drapy hair. And my cousin and

661
00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:15.719
I just literally my brain broke.
We just stared at this thing and then

662
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.760
looked at each other and turned back
around and looked at this thing staring at

663
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:23.480
us, and then we scooby dooted
up the hill. And half of the

664
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.880
thing we're laughing about is we're going
to get up there and find out it's

665
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:29.880
one of our idiot dads in a
gorilla mask trying to freak us out.

666
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.679
We get up to the house.
Our dads are there, our cousins are

667
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:37.760
there, our grandpas are there,
our uncles are there. Everybody's accounted for,

668
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.320
and we were so spun out by
it that they all grabbed their rifles

669
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:43.960
and went out into the woods looking. And at that time, nobody was

670
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.800
thinking, go to the area where
it stood and look at the ground.

671
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:52.159
Are their footprints. I'm sure that
there was regret because my uncle grew to

672
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:55.800
love bigfoot stories and I'm sure he
always kind of kicked himself for never having

673
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:00.519
gone to look at that space.
But that was the perfect environment for something

674
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:07.960
like this to live because ten acres
is livable. It leaves you, you

675
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:13.079
know, thirty acres of woodland area
that nobody goes into really because of all

676
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.519
of the other inherent dangers that are
out there. So it's kind of a

677
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:22.159
safety zone and safety buffer for whatever
might be existing. And my grandparents saw

678
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:28.199
UFO activity over their property, So
again, here's a nexus point where here's

679
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:32.719
a creature, here's alien UFO things
that have been seen over their property.

680
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.360
It's it's kind of telling again that
in some of these places it just aligns

681
00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:43.280
properly. So yeah, having had
that experience as a child, it's always

682
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:45.440
been niggling at the back of my
head that I think I had a big

683
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:50.920
Foot sighting. Now I also am
honest to the fact that I was ten

684
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:54.039
eleven years old when it happened.
It could have been a homeless man,

685
00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:00.440
big homeless guy wearing a tattered jacket, and I misunderstood what I saw,

686
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:06.280
but it was so big and crunching
around. My dad and uncle and grandfather

687
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:08.119
used to go out hunting in part
of the back of the woods and you

688
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:15.639
could hear him walking and it was
just a this was like when it was

689
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:22.920
walking, it was with force,
and you know, it just sounded different

690
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:27.679
and big and loud. So that
was really kind of an instigation for me

691
00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:31.400
to really be fascinated by Bigfoot.
And then the other part to me that

692
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:37.719
I absolutely love is the fact that
the Peterson Gimblin Bigfoot film to me,

693
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:44.760
is one of the coolest examples of
this phenomenon because as time has progressed and

694
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:50.760
we're able to stabilize the film,
clear up the film, and scientifically look

695
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:53.920
at it, to me, it
only gets better. Where I would have

696
00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:58.840
thought that with the abilities that we've
got. It would have degraded the footage

697
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:02.920
and made it look worse or made
it so glaringly obvious that it was a

698
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:07.480
costume. And I think that,
and I don't know where you guys stand

699
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:12.559
on this particularly, but that footage
to me, still holds the test of

700
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:17.679
time fifty six years later, Stay
tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff

701
00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:28.199
and Bogo. We'll be right back
after these messages. And then who are

702
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:30.480
your two detractors? And I'll get
emails from your fans and listeners. It'll

703
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:32.840
be like you're a moron and talking
out of your ass. You don't know

704
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:38.639
what you're discussing. It was a
prank put on by Bob Huronymous and I

705
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:44.079
can't remember the name of the costumer
off the Philip Morris, and I actually

706
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:49.320
had both of those gentlemen on my
radio show and I talked to them about

707
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:51.719
it, and they, oh,
it was awesome we created the costume,

708
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:55.639
and I said, okay. So
in nineteen sixty seven, the Planet of

709
00:49:55.679 --> 00:50:02.000
the Apes came out. That was
cutting edge technollogy makeup with millions of dollars

710
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:06.679
put into the work. There was
two thousand and one a Space Odyssey,

711
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:12.320
which opens with these bipedal Harry homidids
that looked like crappy, long haired gorilla

712
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:16.000
costumes. Really bad. The only
other thing that was even close to looking

713
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:21.719
realistic were the monkeys Mickey, Davey, Peter and Mike right. The rest

714
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:27.159
the rest of the costumes and everything
looked cartoonish. And that's I love the

715
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:30.960
Planet of the Apes movies, but
it still looked like a costume. So

716
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:35.679
you mean to tell me that that
in nineteen sixty seven you created a costume

717
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:42.519
out of an old gorilla costume and
football pads that stands the test of time

718
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:46.679
today that we can actually see muscle
structure in the calves, the thighs and

719
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:52.480
the back as it's walking away.
And when they gave you the opportunity to

720
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:58.280
recreate this in the early two thousands, or maybe it was at late nineties,

721
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.320
they gave them the ability to recreate
a costume with the new technology that

722
00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:07.480
exists. Their costume looked junkier than
something my kids could have put together.

723
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:10.360
And that was a professional costumer.
What was their response to that, because

724
00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:15.280
I'd never spoken to either of those
men. H Philip Morris just well,

725
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:17.159
no, yeah, you know I
mean that was like at the top of

726
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:20.800
the line costume back in the day, and Brob, I said, right,

727
00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:24.480
But the fact that you could not
reproduce it forty years later with new

728
00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:31.679
technology and better costumes, because the
Jacklink's bigfoot has been around now for what

729
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:39.320
twenty years, and that costume and
footage is amazing. You couldn't even get

730
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:45.280
close to that with the schlocky costume
that you put together and had Heronymous walking

731
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:47.760
around in. And they, you
know, I was very polite throughout the

732
00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:52.079
conversation, but I pushed on these
points and they couldn't give me an answer

733
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.840
I felt was real. I felt
it was all very disingenuous and to what

734
00:51:55.079 --> 00:52:00.280
end. I don't understand why disavow
it unless they felt like they got cut

735
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:05.559
out of something. And as far
as I understand, there wasn't a lot

736
00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:07.960
of money that was made, and
really the only one that really made the

737
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:13.800
money was Patterson on the footage,
and I don't even know that that's a

738
00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:16.880
reality. Maybe you guys can answer
that element for me. He made some

739
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:21.239
money, yeah, he and al
Viatley made money, but they cut Bob

740
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:24.320
out of it. Bob never really
made anything out of it. In fact,

741
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:29.320
Bob told me he sold all rights
to his one third share of the

742
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:32.320
film The Reneeda Hinden for one dollar
because he was so tired of being called

743
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:36.800
a liar and you know, almost
broke up his marriage and ruined his life

744
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:40.840
in a lot of ways. But
he made enough money that he went to

745
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:46.480
Indonesia on a wild goose chase because
he received a letter saying that they had

746
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:54.559
a live sasquatch like creature in an
Indonesian monastery. And he spent his money

747
00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:59.519
that he earned by taking it on
tour and going to places like the Spokane

748
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:02.920
Colisee, in the Portland Coliseum and
whatever else. He spent all that money

749
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:07.840
on a trip to Indonesia on a
wild goose chase. Wasn't that they believed

750
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:10.519
that they had like the top of
the skull. No, No, that

751
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:15.159
you're thinking of the Pingbolche skull in
the Pingbolcha hand, which is in the

752
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:17.480
Himalayas A little bit different. They
said they had a live sasquatch in a

753
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:22.159
cage. And in fact, a
number of years ago a gentleman who at

754
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:29.400
the time was an anthropology student in
Eastern Washington, I believe, contacted me

755
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:32.440
and said that he was the guy
that Roger kind of lined up to pull

756
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:36.239
some shenanigans if they had to,
because he was going to go try to

757
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:40.599
buy the sasquatch from the monks at
the monastery, but if things went sideways,

758
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:45.400
he was willing to steal it,
and he had an anthropologist on hand

759
00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:46.920
to help him with it if in
case it ever went that far. But

760
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:51.599
it never did or anything, so
there was nothing illegal going on, but

761
00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:55.440
apparently he sure thought about it.
So that seems like an awfully weird thing

762
00:53:55.480 --> 00:53:59.199
to do if you're if you you
know, put somebody in a suit and

763
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:02.400
filmed it. And he died in
basically poverty in like what seventy two,

764
00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:05.800
seventy three, I think it was
seventy three, I think, Yeah,

765
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:08.880
he died thinking that with more money
he could probably cure himself of the Hodgskins

766
00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:15.360
disease that killed him. So yeah, it's unfortunate but weird behavior for someone

767
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:20.480
who easily hoaxed such a great and
compelling piece of footage. Well, and

768
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:23.079
then the problem, you know,
in all of our industries is there's got

769
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:29.440
to be some p T. Barnum
jackuad out there who's got to do things

770
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:35.639
that really cast a pall over what
we're trying to look at and accomplish.

771
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:37.960
And you know, you know,
those are things that have put a deep

772
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:44.280
blemish on the fascination for a lot
of people. They just expected all to

773
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:47.440
be hokum and nonsense. Yeah,
it really gives the subject a black eye

774
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:52.199
where people hear about these hoaxes or
these twisted tails and they think there's nothing

775
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:59.239
there. There's because the cool stuff, the subtle, slow erosion into the

776
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.320
truth, you know, to the
truth, not of the truth. You

777
00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:06.119
know, this this this erosion of
ignorance as we learn more and more about

778
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:10.119
the animals themselves. That stuff isn't
flashy, it's not sexy, and that

779
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:14.199
stuff doesn't get any play on the
media. Unfortunately because of it, you

780
00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:16.000
know, we have. We had
trouble with our TV show for the same

781
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:20.280
reason. You know, it had
to be you know, flashy and cool

782
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:22.239
and had to hook people because you
got to get them around for that commercial

783
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:25.920
break. I mean, I think
Bobo go to to test to this.

784
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:30.599
I've got I got a hundreds of
emails from people saying you're doing this all

785
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:32.599
wrong. You're banging on trees making
noise. Dope. You guys are jackasses.

786
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:37.199
You should go sit in a tree
stand and blow descent and be quiet

787
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:39.400
and thinking, well, that's horrible, horrible television. First of all,

788
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:43.239
no one's ever going to watch that. But you know, at the same

789
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:45.400
time, like, I've been pretty
successful the last couple of years with this

790
00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:50.719
bigfoot thing, gathering all sorts of
interesting evidence and information. But a walk

791
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:53.920
on a road during the day where
one out of five times, one out

792
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:59.280
of eight times you go you find
something cool that's not sexy, that's just

793
00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:01.440
time spent in the word, and
the media just doesn't care. But they

794
00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:05.480
sure like when some jackass dresses up
in a monkey suit and waves at a

795
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:09.360
train, right. But again,
even in those elements, there's something that's

796
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:13.239
a good takeaway. Like I was
just like everybody, I kind of bought

797
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:15.199
into that, and I was like, that's cool footage. But what I

798
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:21.079
found even more compelling about it is
here you've got something that people could say,

799
00:56:21.079 --> 00:56:23.480
there's no way a bigfoot could be
there one second and gone the next.

800
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:29.199
From that footage, when that guy
crouches down into kind of the fetal

801
00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:32.360
position, he just becomes part of
the bushes. If you weren't paying attention,

802
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:36.559
you wouldn't have even noticed that there
was a guy out there dressed in

803
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:42.840
a gorilla suit. So if that's
possible, why couldn't an actual creature that's

804
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.840
used to these areas and adaptable have
evolved in a way that they could be

805
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:52.320
standing right there and never notice because
of the way that they hide themselves and

806
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.719
blend into their surroundings. Yeah,
that suit is actually commercially available, and

807
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:00.599
it's pretty yellow. It's kind of
a golden yellow brown color. And I

808
00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:05.000
know that that Colorado train footage thing
that we're talking about, that's like the

809
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:07.079
dead grass and stuff that it was, that's kind of a similar color.

810
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:09.880
A Sasquatches for the most part,
are darker in color, you know,

811
00:57:10.039 --> 00:57:14.119
not not always, but darker in
color. They are the color of the

812
00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:17.519
woods, just like pretty much every
other animal that lives in the woods.

813
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:21.840
Of great interest, and certainly they
are very very good what they do,

814
00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:23.360
and most of the time when they
are seen, the first thing they do

815
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:29.440
is stand completely still. You can
wear turquoise in the woods and at two

816
00:57:29.559 --> 00:57:32.320
hundred yards stand completely still and you're
probably not going to be seen. Yeah,

817
00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:37.079
that's what I think is so astounding
about this, And I've seen some

818
00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:42.960
of these beautiful documentaries that have been
made showing the adaptability of so many different

819
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:49.039
wildlife species, of how easily they
can blend in and how their bodies have

820
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:55.920
learned to fool nature itself. Right, There's a snake whose tongue looks like

821
00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:00.360
a bug flying around, so when
a bird comes down to get it,

822
00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:04.800
the snake and get the bird,
right, that shows the adaptability and just

823
00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:10.159
how brilliant nature is. So if
a snake can make itself look like a

824
00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:15.239
bug for you know, something to
eat and on, all of these other

825
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:21.440
animals have got these ways of just
adapting. The cuddlefish that becomes trans translucent

826
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:28.719
octopus that can change multiple colors and
kind of fade into any kind of obscure

827
00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:32.159
background. That's really remarkable. You
know. I know it's a big foot

828
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:37.440
show, but I gotta ask you. You said you've experienced demons in person.

829
00:58:38.119 --> 00:58:43.679
I'm very cautious with using that.
I have been in a few instances

830
00:58:43.719 --> 00:58:47.719
where I believe that the person I'm
dealing with may be possessed or at least

831
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:53.119
dealing with an oppression of something more
malevolent because of the abilities and things that

832
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:58.679
are going on around that person,
and it has been very frightening. I

833
00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:01.079
can't say that, you know,
like I go and I see Bobo and

834
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:05.519
cliffs standing there. I've never had
that experience where I just go and there's

835
00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:12.519
a demon. But I've been in
that situation twice and it has been very

836
00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:16.000
disarming. Nothing like it ever when
I've been to you know, actual hauntings.

837
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:21.880
I think it is so few and
far between true demonic possession or demonic

838
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:24.400
realm existing in some of these locations. I just think a lot of it

839
00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:30.199
is people's perceptions or fear levels.
Like you guys have no problem tramping around

840
00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:36.239
in the woods even though there's bear
and coyote and wildcats and mountain lions out

841
00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:39.760
there. You're out there protecting yourself, but you're still putting yourself in harm's

842
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:45.760
way. I wouldn't do that right. That to me sounds crazy. I'm

843
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:50.559
more afraid of being eaten by something
that we know exists in my search to

844
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:54.599
find something we're kind of sure exists. So to me, that's a different

845
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:59.039
deal. But like with the paranormal, I know ghosts exist, I don't

846
00:59:59.079 --> 01:00:02.599
I can't tell you what they are, but I don't run into the demonic

847
01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:08.199
realm that often that is such a
very limited slice of the pie. And

848
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:13.559
I've talked to people that have been
terrified, and I'll tell your audience this

849
01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:15.559
is one of my favorite stories.
This woman reached out to me. She

850
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:19.000
goes, I had this paranormal team
come in. They were here fifteen minutes

851
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:22.639
and left and they shared the EVP
with me, and they told me on

852
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:24.760
their way out, we have a
demon and that they're not capable of dealing

853
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:29.199
with this. And I said,
well, what was the EVP the electronic

854
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:32.440
voice phenomenon recording, and she played
it for me and you hear them talking

855
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:35.480
in the background. They're like,
yeah, we're going to shut up our

856
01:00:35.480 --> 01:00:40.320
equipment. And then you hear which
sounds like somebody's stomach making a noise,

857
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:45.800
and that was it. Maybe that
was haunted by a frog, right that

858
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:49.800
was the demonic growl? And she
goes yeah, And I said, well,

859
01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:52.480
what brought them to your house?
She goes, well, I have

860
01:00:52.599 --> 01:00:55.320
this wall with all my collector's plates
on it, and right in the middle

861
01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:59.639
was my great grandmother's plate. And
I was sitting here in the day and

862
01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:01.880
it flew off the wall and broke. I said, okay, did it

863
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:07.280
make like a pentagram pattern on the
floor. No, did it make like

864
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:12.360
a six sixty six with the broken
shards? No? Did the shards jump

865
01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.559
in the air and try to impale
you against the wall? No, that's

866
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:16.800
stupid. And I said, so, why do you believe it was a

867
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:21.519
demon? Well, it was my
great grandmother's plate. And I said,

868
01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:23.840
so do you think today, just
go with me on this, do you

869
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:29.039
think that during roll call in Hell
today, as Lucifer's before his army,

870
01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:31.519
he says, all right, you
bobo, go out and start a war

871
01:01:31.519 --> 01:01:35.920
in the Middle East. Cliff,
I want you to go raise oil prices,

872
01:01:36.119 --> 01:01:39.079
and Dave go break great grandma's plate. And she laughed, and I

873
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:42.519
said, do you realize the absurdity
of that? Do you think that?

874
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:45.960
Is that like Satan's kind of off
nephew, and that's the only job you

875
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.760
can trust him with. And we
talked about it, and I said,

876
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:51.679
just out of curiosity, where did
your great grandmother get it? She goes,

877
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.440
she got it from her mother in
law when they got married. And

878
01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:55.480
I said, oh, what was
their relationship? Like? Oh, they

879
01:01:55.519 --> 01:01:59.599
hated each other. I said,
so, could it be that great grandma

880
01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:01.480
came to you and saw that played
up there and knock it off the wall

881
01:02:01.519 --> 01:02:05.239
once and for all to be done
with it. And she laughs, she

882
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:08.679
goes, That's exactly what my great
grandmother would have been. Like. I

883
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:13.119
got to ask you. You said, did the pieces come flying? Have

884
01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:15.840
you talked to people that have had
that happen, like stuff break and then

885
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:19.079
fly out them and stuff like that. Yeah, I've had people make some

886
01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:22.480
pretty remarkable claims, and I have
not seen that myself where things have leapt

887
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:28.880
up and flown. I've seen things
move slowly from one room to another,

888
01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:31.920
or I've been there and listen,
guys, I'm a skeptical believer. I've

889
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:36.920
had experiences my whole life. But
I questioned them constantly. Do you believe

890
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:38.920
any of the people that told you
the stories those stories like that? Yeah?

891
01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:43.679
Yeah, Again, it's hard not
to because it's their story and I

892
01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:46.039
wasn't there, and I don't want
to be cruel to them if this is

893
01:02:46.119 --> 01:02:50.880
something that happened. But on the
Holeser Files, I got knocked on my

894
01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:55.960
tail two or three times by an
unseen force. And had you asked me

895
01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:00.000
a day before I filmed that first
episode, if I believe that was possible,

896
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:05.000
I would have told you there's no
way on God's green Earth that's possible.

897
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:09.199
That shtick, that's Hollywood nonsense.
And when I got knocked on my

898
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:15.079
ass in the Holser Files first episode
at Whaleyhouse, you guys have been around

899
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:17.199
camera guys in dark right, They're
trying to get around you to get a

900
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:22.199
good shot, and they're tripping over
logs or whatever. I just assumed that

901
01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:24.719
one of the camera guys had come
around behind me in this pitch black room

902
01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:28.920
and tripped on the carpet and fell
into me. Because it was that heavy.

903
01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:31.320
It felt like something hit me,
like it was falling into me.

904
01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:37.159
And when you watch the episode and
I turn around, my brain just can't

905
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:43.039
figure out what I'm not seeing.
There should have been something there. I

906
01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:45.559
got hit hard and I can't wrap
my head around it. Now. Do

907
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:49.079
I believe it was a demon?
No? Do I think it was a

908
01:03:49.119 --> 01:03:52.840
pissed off ghost. Yes? Do
I understand why it was so pissed off?

909
01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:54.719
Yeah? I do believe I know
why it was. You know,

910
01:03:55.000 --> 01:04:01.079
a spirit, a Mexican spirit that
had been and kind of a hero to

911
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:04.519
his own people, and he was
coming back into San Diego with his group

912
01:04:04.719 --> 01:04:09.360
to try to take back the land
that had been stolen from them, and

913
01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:13.119
how were they treated. They were
hung or forced to dig their own graves

914
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:15.800
and then stand in front of the
grave while they were shot to death.

915
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:20.079
So I think that we uncover the
story of this ghost and why it's there,

916
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:25.280
and give it a voice again and
help people have a name to connect

917
01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:29.840
to the history. And sometimes it
stops, it stops being that way it

918
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:32.360
could have been. I could have
jumped to the conclusion of demon very easily,

919
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:36.920
and I was so lucky to have
a great production team that never once

920
01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:41.000
asked us to say anything was a
demon. They would ask, is there

921
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:44.880
any chance that's demonic? And then
we would debate it on camera, and

922
01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:47.239
then when we would calm down and
cooler heads would prevail, we'd often all

923
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:51.440
right, let's not assume it's a
demon. Let's assume it's this ghost,

924
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:55.719
and what can we do to help
it? What's the next layer of this

925
01:04:55.840 --> 01:04:59.239
story? What do we have to
do to help out? And so that's

926
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:00.960
I come at it from a different
point. I'm not walking in a place

927
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:05.280
of fear all the time. That's
something evil is trying to do me harm.

928
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:12.039
I understand ghosts might just be an
unsettled spirit, if I elect to

929
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:15.800
stay here and watch over my family
after I die in spirit form, I'm

930
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:18.559
a wise ass as a human.
Why wouldn't I be a wise ass as

931
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:23.239
a ghost? If somebody is afraid, why wouldn't I poke them? Why

932
01:05:23.239 --> 01:05:27.599
wouldn't I moment freak them out?
Right? I think once you get past

933
01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:31.719
that, that's when that's when you
start to have really interesting experiences. And

934
01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:36.679
that's what I live for now.
Dave, we're kind of coming towards the

935
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:40.880
end of our time here, but
you have a new book that's out,

936
01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:44.719
and I'm wondering how much of this
stuff is in the book because the name

937
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:47.079
of the book is Theater the Mind, Tales from the Darkness, ghosts,

938
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:51.119
UFOs, aliens, monsters, and
other strange stories of the supernatural. Like

939
01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:55.679
where are these stories coming from that
you wrote down in this new book of

940
01:05:55.719 --> 01:05:58.599
yours? Like are we listening to
some of them right now? Or just

941
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:02.440
like this is like some sort of
autobiographical thing, or tell us about the

942
01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:05.639
book because it's brand new. It
is. It's a brand new book that

943
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:09.880
I just released here in January,
the end part of January, and it's

944
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:14.159
stories that people have sent to me
through the years. And shared with me

945
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:17.400
to share with my audience, and
a few of the stories are my own

946
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:20.519
examples. One is a haunted doll
that was given to me, and I

947
01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:26.320
share the story of why it was
given to me, what unnerved the family

948
01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:29.639
so much that they demanded to get
it out of its house, you know,

949
01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:31.280
get it out of their house.
And then I had it for a

950
01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:35.639
number of years and had some weird
experiences, and somebody else wanted it and

951
01:06:35.679 --> 01:06:40.639
they now are the owner of that
strange doll. So I just tell the

952
01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:44.440
story and how it affected me.
There's a story in there about my experience

953
01:06:44.599 --> 01:06:48.800
in a haunted hospital when I was
there having my gallbladder removed. That story

954
01:06:48.800 --> 01:06:54.280
that actually featured on a TV show
called Haunted Hospitals. They didn't tell the

955
01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:59.039
right story, but you know,
it's a fun story to watch unfold on

956
01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:01.840
TV. And then the real story, which I think is creepier than what

957
01:07:01.880 --> 01:07:06.960
they put out. And then the
rest of the stories are stories from people

958
01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:10.800
just like you and me that have
been in the right place at the right

959
01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:14.719
time, or had an experience that
they can't wrap their head around. Some

960
01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:18.679
of the people just want to remain
anonymous and do not want their story associated

961
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:24.639
with them because they are military or
law enforcement, or even moms that just

962
01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:28.360
don't want their kids who love the
paranormal listening to these shows to hear what

963
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:31.920
their mom saw or dealt with.
So I've shared those stories in ways that

964
01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:35.440
whoever says I can involve their names, I involve their names. For the

965
01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:38.760
people that ask me not to,
I keep the names out of it,

966
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:44.000
and I just clear up their punctuation, their grammar, flesh out the story

967
01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:46.519
a little bit, but it is
exactly as they told me. And that's

968
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:50.119
what we have to offer up for
people. And this first book has I

969
01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:57.159
think fifteen or sixteen stories in it, everything from time slip phenomena to doppelgangers,

970
01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:01.840
changelings, this creature, the Bloody
bones Man that's terrifying the black eyed

971
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:08.719
kids, ghosts and UFOs and aliens. So it's I didn't want the book

972
01:08:08.719 --> 01:08:11.960
to be pigeonholed as a ghost story
book. It is a book that tells

973
01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:15.399
many different stories from many different walks
of life and many different belief systems,

974
01:08:15.439 --> 01:08:19.800
and it's just these are stories I
don't think should just lay in somebody's drawer,

975
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:24.840
So I'm happy to put them out
there and the people that shared the

976
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:27.560
stories with me all gave me permission. As a matter of fact, it's

977
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.840
nice. I go on Amazon and
look up my book Theater of the Mind

978
01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:33.479
Tales from the Darkness, and I've
got, you know, over fifty reviews,

979
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:38.279
and a few of those reviews are
from the people whose story I represented

980
01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:41.039
in the book, and they were
so pleased with the way the story came

981
01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:45.279
out and me telling their story in
a respectful way and keeping their you know,

982
01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:48.159
sanctity. Didn't that black eyed kids
think kind of come and go.

983
01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:51.840
I really haven't heard much about that
lately. Well, you know, we

984
01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:57.520
pinpoint the first story to Brian Bethel
in the late nineties who had an experience

985
01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:00.560
with it, and he was a
reporter who actually went on the record sharing

986
01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:03.720
his experience, and then many people
started talking about it. Once we pulled

987
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:09.039
that bandage off, other people started
relating stories. Now again, it's a

988
01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:14.119
great story that fits into the realm
of urban legend. But unlike urban legend

989
01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:16.359
stories, which always happened to a
friend of a friend of a friend and

990
01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:19.680
it was passed along, Brian Bethel
was the guy and he tells you his

991
01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:25.159
story that could be wrong. What
wasn't that original originally from Portland, Oregon.

992
01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:28.199
I can't remember where Brian's from,
to be honest with you. Yeah,

993
01:09:28.279 --> 01:09:30.960
my wife got interested in that.
My wife's and all sorts of weird

994
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:32.560
things, you know, like paranormal
stuff. So she got interested in that,

995
01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:35.600
and she looks it up and she
apparently, well, if it didn't

996
01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:40.039
come from Portland, Oregon, you
can actually find out where something like that

997
01:09:40.159 --> 01:09:43.680
happened in Portland, Oregon, like
the cross Streets where that happened. Yeah,

998
01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:45.640
and he explains it in his article, so you can look up Brian

999
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:50.439
Bethel and Black Eyed Children and you
know, read his story as he tells

1000
01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:56.079
it. So I've had people share
their stories, and again, they're really

1001
01:09:56.119 --> 01:10:00.119
weird. They kind of fit in
that demonic and vampiric line legend and lore

1002
01:10:00.199 --> 01:10:04.199
of they want you to follow them
somewhere, or they need your permission to

1003
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:09.039
enter your car or your home,
and they get very angry when you don't

1004
01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:12.960
allow them in. So it's an
interesting element. And I've heard so many

1005
01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:15.359
different variations of these stories. You
know, if you'd like, I'll tell

1006
01:10:15.359 --> 01:10:19.239
you when that happened here in Minnesota. That is one of my favorites.

1007
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:23.119
It was yeah, sure, it's
a good way to end the podcast here.

1008
01:10:23.159 --> 01:10:25.680
Yeah, absolutely do it. Yeah, And this is not in the

1009
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:29.439
book, but it's one of the
stories I'll probably put in a future book

1010
01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:31.079
because I love it. We had
talked about the black eyed kids. I

1011
01:10:31.119 --> 01:10:34.319
had this great couple. They were
an elderly couple who listened to my radio

1012
01:10:34.399 --> 01:10:39.199
show. We were on ten o'clock
till midnight every night, Monday through Friday.

1013
01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:41.760
And she contacted me. She goes, you know, after you did

1014
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:44.039
that black eyed kid story, I've
got to tell you what happened to my

1015
01:10:44.119 --> 01:10:45.560
husband and I. And this was
a few years ago. We had all

1016
01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:48.600
that rain. Remember it just was
like two weeks of rain. Dave.

1017
01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:51.319
I'm like, yeah, she goes, well, we were diligent listeners.

1018
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:54.840
We would watch the news from nine
to ten, turn off the news,

1019
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:57.319
go in to bed, turn on
the radio, and fall asleep listening to

1020
01:10:57.359 --> 01:11:00.199
your radio show. And I'm like, well, that's great. And she

1021
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:01.680
goes in this one night, we
turn off the TV and we can hear

1022
01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:04.960
what sounds like kids running around out
in our front yard, playing in the

1023
01:11:04.960 --> 01:11:09.800
puddles and playing in the rain.
And my husband went over and he looked

1024
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:12.039
through the blinds and he's like,
God, what's going on. Where are

1025
01:11:12.039 --> 01:11:15.439
these screwy kids? And she said, honey, listen, it's been raining

1026
01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:18.359
NonStop. The parents probably just let
the kids run around to burn off some

1027
01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:21.399
energy. We used to play in
the rain. Okay, they go to

1028
01:11:21.439 --> 01:11:26.239
bed, that's it. About three
o'clock in the morning, she wakes up

1029
01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:30.560
and her husband sleeps with his back
to the wall. She's sleeping closer to

1030
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:34.399
the door, and she wakes up
and there are three children standing inside the

1031
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:40.520
room. There's a girl in the
middle and two boys flanking her, and

1032
01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:44.239
she can see them from the light
that's in the room. They have jet

1033
01:11:44.279 --> 01:11:47.199
black eyes. She says, Dave, I closed my eyes. I took

1034
01:11:47.239 --> 01:11:51.159
a deep breath because I'm a good
listener. I'm a good student of the

1035
01:11:51.199 --> 01:11:56.640
paranormal, and we know that in
those moments that hypnagoga hypnopompic states of when

1036
01:11:56.680 --> 01:11:59.920
we're going into sleep or coming out
of them, we can have these hallucinot

1037
01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:03.560
moments where dreams and reality come together. And maybe I was dreaming about children

1038
01:12:04.039 --> 01:12:06.960
and this is just a layer of
it. So I closed my eyes.

1039
01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:10.479
I took a couple of cleansing breaths. And I opened my eyes and they

1040
01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:13.600
were still standing there, and I
started to reach to my husband and I

1041
01:12:13.600 --> 01:12:15.560
opened my mouth to scream, and
the little girl in the middle step forward,

1042
01:12:16.039 --> 01:12:20.840
pressing her finger to her lips.
She said, sh we just want

1043
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:26.800
to look at you. Oh right, she scream shakes her husband. He

1044
01:12:26.840 --> 01:12:30.399
gets up. They go through the
entire house, turning on every light in

1045
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:33.960
the entire house and that's great,
husband, right, He gets up with

1046
01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:38.199
her to go find out what's going
on. They cuddled in bed, lights

1047
01:12:38.239 --> 01:12:42.199
burning in the house until morning time, and that's when they heard the sound

1048
01:12:42.199 --> 01:12:46.119
of kids laughter outside again, and
it just unnerved and freaked them out.

1049
01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:48.800
But my favorite part of the story. First of all, that was a

1050
01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:54.680
weird, bone chilling tale, But
my favorite part was a couple nights later

1051
01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:58.720
after we share that story, I
go down from our radio station into the

1052
01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:02.000
parking ramp and there's cop car parked
behind my car and he goes, are

1053
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:05.199
you Dave Schrader, And I'm like
yeah, with Darkness Radio, I'm like

1054
01:13:05.279 --> 01:13:09.720
yeah. He goes, yeah,
We got to tell you, big fans

1055
01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:14.279
of the show. All the night
crews on EMTs, firefighters and police love

1056
01:13:14.319 --> 01:13:16.399
your stuff. We don't believe it. It's insane, but it's fun to

1057
01:13:16.479 --> 01:13:20.399
listen to, and you know,
you get great stories on there. But

1058
01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:24.760
the other night you told that story
about the three black eyed kids in that

1059
01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:28.720
woman's room here in Minnesota, and
it was about eleven forty five. You

1060
01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:31.239
told the story and then went to
commercial break. And you go to commercial

1061
01:13:31.239 --> 01:13:35.279
break, and my partner and I
start laughing about how absurd and stupid this

1062
01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:40.199
is. When we get a call
over the radio that an elderly woman is

1063
01:13:40.239 --> 01:13:44.279
calling to complain that there are three
children in her front yard at eleven forty

1064
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:47.159
five at night that she doesn't know
and they won't leave. And he said,

1065
01:13:47.199 --> 01:13:48.920
and I looked at my partner and
he looked at me, and we

1066
01:13:48.960 --> 01:13:51.960
shook our head and turned the radio
off and said, screw that, we're

1067
01:13:51.960 --> 01:13:56.760
not going. So I love the
fact that the cops were so unnerved by

1068
01:13:56.760 --> 01:14:00.640
the story they wouldn't even go out
to investigate what was happening. That's fantastic.

1069
01:14:00.920 --> 01:14:03.680
That is just fantastic. And I
know you said that story is not

1070
01:14:03.720 --> 01:14:08.520
in your book, but you also
commented briefly saying this first book is blah

1071
01:14:08.520 --> 01:14:12.079
blah blah. And I thought to
myself dude, with a lifetime of experience

1072
01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:15.319
and listening to people like you have, there could be endless numbers of these

1073
01:14:15.399 --> 01:14:19.119
books. And if you can write
half as well as you speak, man,

1074
01:14:19.119 --> 01:14:23.159
I'm going to read every single one. That's fantastic. Well I've got

1075
01:14:23.479 --> 01:14:27.439
I'm hoping to have the second book
out around June or July this year and

1076
01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:31.319
then maybe get the third volume out
by Halloween. And I'd like to put

1077
01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:35.000
out these books and with the stories
that people share. So if your listeners

1078
01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:42.159
have strange experiences with Bigfoot or choopacabra, or aliens, or ghosts or weija

1079
01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:46.159
boards psychic phenomena, they can email
me Dave at Paranormal sixty dot com.

1080
01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:51.399
That's Dave at Paranormal six zero dot
com and let me know if I can

1081
01:14:51.439 --> 01:14:55.960
share your story. We might reach
out to you in the future a share

1082
01:14:55.960 --> 01:14:59.439
it on the radio show The Paranormal
sixty, or it may be included an

1083
01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:01.640
upcomingvolume of one of the books that
we put out. And again, my

1084
01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:06.199
job is not to prove or disprove
any of these stories. My job as

1085
01:15:06.239 --> 01:15:11.079
a curator to share the stories that
people have had happen. And the reason

1086
01:15:11.119 --> 01:15:14.760
that I've taken that tack is that
there have been some of the stories I've

1087
01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:17.560
heard that are easy to make you
roll your eyes at, and then we've

1088
01:15:17.600 --> 01:15:21.199
shared them on the air, and
I've received emails and phone calls from listeners

1089
01:15:21.199 --> 01:15:25.920
saying, Dave, I want you
to know that I've had a very weird

1090
01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:30.319
life and I had an experience identical
to that with the exact same creature,

1091
01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:34.760
and I thought I was insane.
Now that I know I'm not alone,

1092
01:15:35.159 --> 01:15:40.479
I feel so much better that somebody
else has seen what I saw. So

1093
01:15:40.520 --> 01:15:45.600
I've removed all judgment and just share
the stories as they're given to me because

1094
01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:50.640
I think they're fascinating, interesting looks
into the human psyche and belief system that

1095
01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:53.920
is fantastic. And this is the
kind of stuff that you get on the

1096
01:15:53.960 --> 01:15:59.479
Paranormal sixty podcast as well. Yeah, we're live Mondays and Wednesdays on YouTube.

1097
01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:01.800
You can watch the Paranormal sixty Live
where I'll talk to my guests and

1098
01:16:01.800 --> 01:16:08.560
it's a video interview. And then
the audios released Tuesday to all platforms,

1099
01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:12.680
So I have a little Paranormal sixty
podcast kind of network that has five different

1100
01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:15.399
shows Monday. If you tune into
the audio version, you get New England

1101
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:19.479
Legends with Ray Ager and Jeff Balang. Or Tuesday you get the Paranormal sixty.

1102
01:16:19.720 --> 01:16:26.159
Wednesday Monsters Lounge with my friends Tresa
and Jenny. Thursday you get the

1103
01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:30.399
Paranormal sixty News and then Friday we've
got True Hauntings, which is a show

1104
01:16:30.399 --> 01:16:34.479
that comes out of Australia. These
two amazing ladies that kind of look at

1105
01:16:34.840 --> 01:16:39.279
paranormal stories, de evolve them,
try to understand them and weigh in on

1106
01:16:39.359 --> 01:16:42.399
if they think that after what they've
read and the proof that's been presented,

1107
01:16:42.720 --> 01:16:45.520
is it a real haunting or not. So we wanted to make a network

1108
01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:48.640
where it was safe to come no
matter what your beliefs or interests are.

1109
01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:51.760
And there are stories for everybody.
And of course your book is now out.

1110
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:55.079
You can get on Amazon if you
want, but there's a better place

1111
01:16:55.079 --> 01:16:58.119
to get it because from I under
sand Dave will sign it for you.

1112
01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:00.880
If you get it from a website, where is that? Yeah? If

1113
01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:03.520
you now for people listening around the
world, I can't ship it out.

1114
01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:06.720
The books are crazy. To send
a book to another country, it costs

1115
01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:10.960
more than the book would have cost
to buy it. So you're better off

1116
01:17:10.960 --> 01:17:14.159
buying it directly from Amazon, but
if you're in the United States and would

1117
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:17.720
like assigned copy, just go to
Paranormal sixty dot com. That's Paranormal six

1118
01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:21.079
zero dot com and on that front
page just scroll down you'll see the place

1119
01:17:21.079 --> 01:17:25.640
where you can order either a signed
or an unsigned copy of the book.

1120
01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:28.000
As soon as I get the order, I sign them and send them out

1121
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:32.039
that day, so that's available,
and I hope that your listeners will come

1122
01:17:32.079 --> 01:17:34.960
along on my journey and enjoy what
we have to share as well. Well.

1123
01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:39.640
I'm looking forward to digging into your
book for sure. It's been a

1124
01:17:39.720 --> 01:17:42.199
delight to speak to you, David. Thank you so much for coming on

1125
01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.640
the podcast. I sincerely appreciate it. And when these other books hit the

1126
01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:48.560
shelves too, let me know love
to have you back on because you're just

1127
01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:51.880
a pleasure to speak to. And
guys, let me tell you this from

1128
01:17:51.920 --> 01:17:55.359
the bottom of my heart, thank
you for the work that you do and

1129
01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:59.960
for both being so accessible to your
fans and to people that have an entry

1130
01:18:00.359 --> 01:18:03.960
in this field, because that makes
the world a little smaller and it makes

1131
01:18:03.960 --> 01:18:09.159
people feel more like a part of
something that we can share. These experiences,

1132
01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:13.800
have these experiences and know that there
are people like you that are entertaining,

1133
01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:16.159
educational, and informative. So thank
you guys for what you're doing,

1134
01:18:16.279 --> 01:18:19.039
for doing this amazing show as well. All right, well, yeah,

1135
01:18:19.079 --> 01:18:21.640
thank you too, Dave. It's
good talking to you again. We appreciate

1136
01:18:21.640 --> 01:18:25.680
you coming on. I'll hopefully talk
to both of you again real soon,

1137
01:18:26.119 --> 01:18:28.960
yeah, hopefully. All right,
folks, Well, thanks a lot for

1138
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:31.359
Dave Shuder coming out and talk with
us today. Hope you all on jored

1139
01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:34.840
as much as we did. And
until next week, you guys know what

1140
01:18:34.880 --> 01:18:44.920
to do. Keep it squatchy.
Well, thanks for listening to this week's

1141
01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:47.720
episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If
you liked what you heard, please rate

1142
01:18:47.800 --> 01:18:53.079
and review us on iTunes, subscribe
to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your

1143
01:18:53.119 --> 01:18:58.279
podcasts, and follow us on Facebook
and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast.

1144
01:18:58.760 --> 01:19:01.960
You can find us on Twitter at
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1145
01:19:01.960 --> 01:19:08.680
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