Big Food and on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are you favorites,
so like to say subscribe and raid it five stary and greatest on yesterday and
listening watching them always keep its watching. And now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and
James Bobo Fay. Hello Bobo? How you doing man here? Do you
get what's going on? Cliff? All sorts of stuff as usual. I
had a pretty eventful weekend. We can get it out a little bit in
the members section here because we have a great guest when I was take too
long for it. But remember those fake stompers I mentioned to you last time.
Yeah, I dug a little bit deeper. Last Friday, I went
and interviewed two gentlemen. One of the gentlemen was one hundred and one years
old. The other gentleman was only ninety four years old. I think it
was ninety four. Yeah, so like two hundred years of dudes in the
room, you know, plus me, And it was interesting. I didn't
get a lot of answers of what I was looking for, but I got
some clarification about a couple of things. But I guess the most important thing
about all that stuff is looking back into the interview with the guy who gave
me the stompers, because part of the deal with me getting the stompers was
he's going to tell me when he used them, the best of his recollection
and stuff. I tracked it down. Sure enough, I am ninety nine
percent sure those are the same stompers that made the footprints that Barbara Wasson cast
in nineteen seventy four. I believe December nineteen seventy four. If you have
a copy of Barbara Wahson's book, Sasquatch Apparitions. Barbara was one of the
early researchers in the nineteen seventies, one of the only female researchers at the
time, a pioneer really in a lot of ways, using data, crunching
numbers, working in the field with a bunch of other people, and collaborating
with them. Part of John Green's crew back in the early days. Is
a fantastic bigfooter. Yeah. She starts her book Sasquatch Apparitions telling the story
of these tracks. And I'll be darned if the guy who gave me those
stompers, who I got the stompers from, he said the first time I
used them. It was down in southern Oregon at this one location, and
sure enough, that's where she's talking about. Oh man, Yeah, well,
you know it's unfortunate. But at the same time, now we know
she'd want another truth. Yeah, she would want another truth. I think,
you know, she definitely would want o the truth. But nowadays,
you know, I have the original cast. There's never been a copy made
of it. By the way, I owned the original cast because the NABC
owns the entire Barbara Wasson collection of course for our archives. But I got
out the cast, I got out the stompers, And not only does a
story match, but the actual prints match as well. So that's unfortunate in
one way and good in another way. But you know what makes me wonder
all these eighteen inch foot prints and stuff like that, this because this is
eighteen inches, I think, I just think that's too big, man.
I think that the males have I think the big males feet that are fifteen
or sixteen inches long. I think those real, real big ones. I
want to take a real close look at a lot of these things. I
bet some of them aren't real, and some are of course slippage as well,
because I always say, we have a footprint of an individual who has
fourteen inch feet that left an eighteen and a half inch footprint. But speaking
of tracks, I got something good. I think you're gonna like it.
You mightn't want to put in your museum in some form. I got a
message today from Eric the big Foot Museum and Willowkirk. And after that we
had that meeting with the McCoy's with Dave McCoy and he called his brothers and
cousins and all that soil McCoy's son. They listened to the podcast and they
are stoked. They're like, oh, we're so glad to hear our Fallow
getting the respect he deserves, you know, in recognition. And they lit
a fire on their looking gung ho for everything, and they found a original
from the first time he cast tracks the trackway. Eric got a copy of
a three minutes of film of them casting it. It's a little washed out
with you know, to you light, I guess, but it's pretty good.
And he said it's decent enough. And I thought nat Click could put
that on a little loop for some of those Bluff Creek display or something.
Oh yeah, yeah, if I can get a hold of it. I
can digitize it and give him back the original so they still own it the
permission to use it in the shop. It'd be fantastic, Yeah, because
we have we have those We own those pictures from him Palm and sil McCoy
was directly involved in that stuff, right. You know, I am planning
on coming down. I'm going to come down this summer and hang out.
Maybe you can come out with me or something, Bose. It's been a
while since we've been in the woods together, but I do want to see
how Bluff Creek fared during all that fire and stuff. And I definitely planned
and dropping by the museum and talking to Eric. I had a great conversation
with him when he called. And you know, he's not running the Willow
Creek Museum, but he's deeply involved in it, and I'm clearly running this
museum. So we have a lot to talk about and some collaboration might be
a foot no pun intended. Yeah, Yeah, I'm glad he's thereon macas
he's got plans for us, So that's great. We could talk about to
this during the member section because there's always stuff to talk about the member section.
Plus we always take questions every single week from our members. We'll get
to that later, but I don't want to keep our guests on the line
much longer because I'm excited about this one, and some people out there might
be puzzling about that. Because we have a paranormal guest on and Cliff's excited
about it. Well you'll see why here. I think this is gonna be
great. Yeah, he's cool. I was on his show a couple of
times. He's a good dude. And of course, if you are interested
in here and what But when I talk about in the member section, we're
not hiding it from you. But you know, if you're interested in becoming
a member, there's a link in the show notes, and we get an
extra episode every Thursday, so you get pretty much twice the Cliff and Bobo.
All right, we let's jump into our guests tonight, and then I'm
very very pleased to have our friend on. Dave Schrader is our guest tonight.
He's a ghost dude. That's how I know him, Because you know,
I don't watch a lot of TV and stuff in general, but I
do know Dave from doing various gigs around town and whatnot. He's been on
a couple of panels with me and just I always have a great time speaking
with him. He's been on a number of television shows at the Holser Files
The Ghost of Devil's Perch Where are two of the most recent ones. But
I think he's been on countless ones really so I've never counted them, that's
for sure. But right now I think he has a very popular podcast called
Paranormal sixty And So Dave, Dave Schrader, welcome to big Foot and Beyond.
I'm so glad you can join us. Well, thank you both for
having me on. I appreciate this. You know, I've had Bobo on
my show when I used to be on Darkness Radio, and he was so
popular that I think we ended up having him back the next night to continue
our conversation and had a great time. So, and Cliff, you and
I always just seem to miss each other when availability would open up. But
I'm glad I get a chance to visit with you now and this is fantastic.
Thanks for having me in. Well, you know, it's hard to
have just one one helping of Bobo. You always want to have seconds when
you have that dish, you know, no doubt nice. And you know,
I don't do a lot of podcasts nowadays because I work on one,
you know, and it's like, you know, I bet a maid's house
is dirty, for example. You know. So I don't do a lot
of podcasts in my off time, but I'd be happy to do yours anytime.
Just give me a holler let me know. So oh, you know
it, love to have you kaman and chat and catch up our audience on
all things cryptied as well. That's such a huge, huge following that it's
strange to me, you know, as a guy who's been in the paranormal
field actively as a radio show host for eighteen years. First with Darkness Radio,
I was a fill in host on Coast to Coast for five years,
and then I've been doing my new podcast, The Paranormal sixty for the last
three years. It's always amazing to me that I could come out with some
of the most unbelievably amazing stories of reincarnation or demonic possession or hauntings that are
making the Amityville look like kiddie play. But then I do an episode on
Bigfoot and I get multiples of downloads, and I would get on any other
episode and it's great to see that that interest in fascination continues, but it's
kind of confounding and I'd actually love to pick both of your brains. There's
so much going on in the world and the concept that, you know,
alien disclosures kind of out there. Now there's ghost shows everywhere, but there's
always just one, maybe two big foot style shows going on. Why do
you think there's so much excitement that continues in the field of cryptozoology because it's
real, Yeah, the real animals. It's as simple as that. I
mean, people wonder when the people who don't think sasquatches are real wonder when
the whole thing's gonna go away. And it's like that's like asking, well,
gosh, you know what is this whole elk thing gonna go away?
You know what is this whole black bear thing gonna go away? I'm tired
of it? I mean, are people gonna be finished talking about it?
It's like, no, there's always gonna be hunters, you know, they're
always gonna there's gonna be outdoors people and there are always gonna be sasquatches around
because they're just here. You know. It is persistent because of the reality
of the species. I like it, and I love the fact that people
have this ongoing fascination when and again, being a guy on the outside and
having watched your shows and the other shows that have come out regarding cryptids and
Bigfoot in specific, it's it's always fascinating to me that there's such fleeting amounts
of what would be considered really amazing evidence that I've had a chance to see.
But yet that's enough to just keep people really intrigued by the concept that
there might be this, whether it's a ghostly creature, an interdimensional being,
or just a zoological creature we have not yet identified. It's fun to watch
people really glom onto this and have such a deep love and respect and fondness
for that specific creature. Yeah. I think it might have something to do
with that we see a little bit of ourselves in them, you know,
because they're shaped like us, for example, you know, like the general
morphology of a human being sort of, even though they're very very different from
us obviously in pretty much every aspect, but they are kind of like us,
and I think we kind of see that and glom onto it in the
same sort of way that back in the day you know, like nineteen sixties,
nineteen seventies, people got a kick out of, like watching it,
seeing a chimpanzee in a suit or something like that. Right, you know,
I think that there's something akin to that. I'm not sure what that
word would be, but I think there's something akin to that. It's just
unfortunately, I always find it unfortunate how the depiction that the media gives the
subject and also the researchers. You know, the researchers are often depicted very
very poorly, like gullible tinfoil hat wear and weirdos, and mind you,
some of us are. But the subject itself deserves such a higher level of
respect than what I feel it gets on television and the internet and whatever else.
But at the end of the day, the subject is here, It
is real, and the animals are real, just perfectly normal animals out in
the woods, and as long as they're walking around, the mystery of the
subject will also be walking around, at least until Discovery Day whenever. That
is so, Just like Tenacious Ty is saying, which is you know that
Mother Effer is real, real, real, real sasquatch is real. There
you go, yeah, I think you you'd have to finish that. I'm
not sure everybody would know that they were. They actually said that you don't
know the Sasquatch song by ten Acious D, I do not, You don't
squash Your love is real. That's great. It's an epic ballad and we'll
have some really hard rocking parts as well. It's really the quintessence of prog
rock in some ways. See nobody's writing good ghost story songs anymore. Yeah,
you know what, why not? Because there's a there's a there's a
whole lot of Sasquatch songs. So what's up with that? Where the artists
in the ghost world? How come they're not doing that? I don't you
know, I don't know. I mean there might be, they're just not
as vocal about it, and it's just a topic that you don't hear coming.
But I like one of my favorite all time songs of any genre is
Charlie Daniel's Band The Legend of Wooly Swamp and the Ghostly Stories and just the
concept of being deep out in the woods and not knowing your surroundings and just
how dangerous it could be, and how dangerous it is for the three brothers
that go and Seek of the Fortune that is told to be out there.
But I just love that ghost story. That's a has been one of my
favorites, and I love the fact that it was all in a song format.
But of course, Charlie Daniels also did The Devil down in Georgia,
so there seems to be a lot of spiritual or you know, songs along
in his repertoire his songbook. Perhaps could it be, And I don't know,
I'm assuming a fair number of ghost people listen to this. Maybe they
don't they've had enough of me. I don't know, but perhaps could it
be that ghost people don't sing very well? You know, I'm not gonna
even put that out there because I'm a huge fan of Bruce Springsteen and he's
got a bunch of songs about ghosts, and even as a song called The
Jersey Devil, So I'm going to give him the credit where credit is due.
At least, I know one guy's still putting out some songs with paranormal
slants and themes to them. Maybe he absorbed everybody else's talent. Yeah,
that would be the only excuse that I can understand. I don't know,
I'm just messing with the ghost community. So because you know I'm not anti
ghosts, I get a lot of that in the shop or whatever. If
I'm out on a gig at one of these speaking deals, people come up
to me, he says, I know you're not a paranormal guy, and
I know this in blahblah. Well, you don't know much because you know
I told you on stage. Remember when we did the Oregon big Foot Conference
last year, I told you my ghost story in front of everybody. You
know, like I do, think paranormal stuff happens, I just don't know
what that stuff is, and I under no circumstances to I think sasquatches are
in any way paranormal. You know, But that's just a when you look
at the weird fields that you know, you and I and everybody else looks
into. If you want to put that under the umbrella of unknown or supernatural
or paranormal, I said, eh, okay, But sasquatch is a very
very small slice of that pie, and that's a very very boring slice of
that pie in some ways, because there isn't, in my opinion, anything
paranormal about it. But I'm into all other weird things. How do you
think I got into big Foot in the first place, is my thought.
You know, like, clearly you're not like a perfectly normal person who just
happens to be interested in sasquatches. Whoa whoa, whoa, Bob, if
you're gonna if you're gonna argue now that you're a perfectly normal person, I
don't even know what to say to you. I am, he is one
of the most normal people. He knows well. I actually I've hung out
of your house for a week or so at a time, up in humblet
and between you know, you and Jesse Legend and a heavy metal pat and
rubber arm Joe and all your other weird muppet friends that come by. You
know, I guess you are pretty normal exactly. But didn't you tell me
once that I'm the most normal person? You know, you're the most normal
person that introduced to my parents as a friend. Oh okay, yeah,
you're the token normal friend. Of course, I am. You had a
job back then. I've failed you. I've failed you well anyway, Dave,
Dave, So I've got a couple questions for you now. Again,
I don't watch much TV. Maybe this is already out there or something.
Like that, but specifically the Holser Files, Right, that was one of
the shows you're on, And apparently I was reading a little bit about it
in preparation for the interview here, and what I get is that there was
a historic ghost person or paranormal person called doctor Hans Holzer and that that show
explored his files. Is that? Is that the correct slant of the show?
There the synopsis? Yeah, doctor Hans Holzer had been around. You
know, he's a very pre eminent paranormal investigator. They call him one of
America's first ghost hunters. He had a TV series known as ghost Hunters.
Long before the ghost Hunters TV series came out. He was on Network news
all the time. He put the Whaley House in San Diego on the map
while investigating it with his friend Regis Philbin, who captured weird experiences on film.
He reduced, Yeah, if you look online. As a matter of
fact, they did that Celebrity ghost Stories or My ghost Stories a few years
ago where they would take some of these celebrities back to the locations that you
know that upset them, that they had these encounters with. And Reis talked
very openly about his his paranormal encounters at the Whaley House. Well, that's
the weirdest thing I've heard all day. Yeah, good begun, doctor Holzer.
He really you know, he wrote over I think it was one hundred
and eighty five books on just about every angle of the strange and supernatural,
from witchcraft to UFOs, to miracle priests, to ghosts and hauntings and famous
haunted locations, And like him, I have such a love and fascination of
history that it was just so when they opened the door to me to let
me in to investigate his files, I jumped on it because when they first
when they first reached out, they're like, hey, Dave, you know,
hey, we're aware of you. We're interested in having you lead on
a ghost show. And I'm like, oh, I think I'm good.
Thanks, And they were like, well, no, this is TV.
And I'm like, yeah, I think i'm good. That's what I'm saying.
No, don't you understand that it's going to be polite, right,
But I'm like, there's enough ghost shows and I don't want to just be
part of a cookie cutter cast. And they're like no, no, no,
this is totally different, And I said, how's it different? Well,
it's just going to be three of you. And I said, I
think that show is called Ghost Adventures and he goes, no, no,
no, one of you is going to be a medium and a psychic and
I said, oh, so it's kind of like dead Files. No no,
no, it's I can't tell you until you agree that you want to
be a part of this. And I'm like, well, we're in an
impasse then, because I'm not going to be a part of something I don't
know more about. So I signed some thick phone book style NDA and as
soon as I signed it, they said, we're reopening the case files of
doctor Hans Holzer and that's all they got out of their mouths. And I'm
like, I'm in, count me in. This will be amazing, So
I was willing to do that. They had all the original video, photographs,
audio recordings, handwritten notes, everything he had done over his like forty
five fifty year span of investigating the supernatural. And I was, man,
I grew up reading Hans Holzer's books, so to get a chance to follow
in his footsteps. And another interesting tie I had to doctor Holzer was our
radio show. We were the last radio show that he did before he sadly
passed away. Yeah, because he lived until I think I remember a two
thousand and nine or something like that, so pretty much around two thousand and
eight, two thousand and nine that he passed away. And you know,
I became friends with his daughter, Alexandra, and she was a part of
this program. So it really it was a great opportunity. I'm glad we
got to do it for two seasons. I in all their haste to get
the show on the air, I think they mis named it. You know,
Holzer Files is really cool if you are a triedent and true paranormal fan
and know who doctor Hans Holzer was. But you know, he had passed
away in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. He wasn't on
any of the big paranormal TV series of our time here since you know,
the relaunching about two thousand and one, with all of the different glut of
paranormal style shows that came out, so he wasn't as familiar. And I
kept telling him, could we let's name the show Holzer's Ghost Files. I
think if the audience knows what, you know, what the files are that
we're investigating. Otherwise it sounds like a seventies toctive show, and they didn't
change the name. We built, you know, a nice gathering, but
just not enough to keep us on for a third season. It's hard to
find a producer who had listen, you know, and think that, oh,
the host that's been doing this for thirty years may know a little bit
more about the subject than I do, because I've been researching this for six
months. Yeah. No, I've learned that in the world of TV,
everybody is smarter than you. So I just, you know, nod and
smile and do my job the best to my abilities. And that's that's all
I did. They rolled Cindy Case of the Medium and I that were on
The Holzer Files over to another program called The Ghosts of and we were brought
out to Butte, Montana to investigate. And we stayed there for a little
over ninety days, just living and breathing and sweating in that same town with
the people, and it was it was a great experience. But holy cow,
what a bunch of weird paranormal things are going on in that town.
And there's everything from UFO sightings to cryptids to ghosts and what they believe are
demons. So that was another head trip to be a part of a program
like that. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will
be right back after these messages. When so much variety of weird stuff happens
around a location in particular, do you think it has more to do with
the people or the location itself. There's people like Bobo, for example,
I believe, and I don't want to put words in his mouth. You
can refute this if you choose bobes, but like, he's very strong.
He's a strong advocate of the vortex kind of idea, you know, or
the skinwasher or Skinwalker ranch thing out in Utah, or any of these number
of things. You think it's a location deal or is it a people deal.
I think it's a mixture of both. I think that like in the
case of Butte Montana, here you've got this gorgeous land and it drew all
these people because of the minerals that were in the earth, the silver,
the gold, and the copper, which is really what was so big there.
And you know they built this it was the wild West. Baby.
There were you know, shootouts and you had such a it was a mining
town that were twenty four to seven, so did the brothels. There were
blocks of whorehouses that ran twenty four hours a day, and there were levels
to the whorehouses that you could visit depending on how much money you made.
So there, you know, literally there was elite on the top floor all
the way down to guys that were making pennies. There was something for everybody,
and it was a town, you know, in violence, steeped in
shootouts and fisticuffs and you know, sex and violence and money and greed.
And I think that that taints the ground after a while, that that kind
of anxiety, that kind of stress, can have an impact and an effect
on an area. And I don't know if people are drawn to a specific
place because of the energy that's there, or do we create this rift,
this vortex because of the way we treat a location, its history and the
people that walk that place before we were there. Maybe one begets the other.
It's hard to say, because there are some places that are extremely haunted
that we have nobody died here. We don't know why this is so active,
you know, And not only that, but they're seeing UFOs in the
sky and people in the neighborhood have had bigfoot encounters, and it's just to
me, it's astonishing because I can't figure out what is it about this?
It ends up like an episode of Stranger Things. It's just like Bobo loves
these vortex these portal spots that just seem to be a hotbed of activity of
many different styles. Interesting. Yeah, I wonder about those. Why is
it? I mean, because Native Americans those are tens of thousands of years.
It's like, aren't more of their ghosts scene? I mean, I
know they're scenes sometimes, but seems like they should be seen a lot more.
That's a great question, and again nobody has the one answer. I
often wonder though, if time is not linear, if it is like the
string theory, and it's a big ball of timey wymy wibbley wobbly stuff,
right, and it's could it be that the timeline of eighteen hundred to nineteen
twenty twenty one happens to being, you know, laying over the timeline of
two thousand to two thousand and thirty, And as time and space continue to
change and undulate, well, will the next layer of time lay upon Native
American spirits or ancient Rome? Will we see more of that taking place.
It also may have to do with the belief systems of the locations. You
know, the native people and indigenous tribes were so respectful of their dead and
did everything they could to put these these people and beings and spirits to rest
that I think that there's not that same dissension and even the brutal murders that
took place and this enfranchising these tribes people, which is heartbreaking to talk about.
I think that they were on a different level of evolution in a mindset
that although the death was not something that they would have wanted or chosen,
I think they felt that in the battle that they did to try to save
their people, save their culture, they move on because it was a heroic
deed. So I think there's some elements of that. I also think it
also, you know, we see these cyclical moments when paranormal seems to be
in resurgence, and there was that eighteen hundreds to early nineteen hundreds, famine,
disease, pestilence, all of these horrible things that were taking place,
and people were constantly calling out to the spirit realm and spiritualists. Did we
rupture something in doing that? That that's why we see that time era,
and we don't see the time era of other places. And maybe the places
that do, say the Native American spirits, are places like Skinwalker Ranch or
you know, deep in the wilderness where we don't walk still, and that
may be where the indigenous spirits and tribes people still gather. No, that
brings an interesting question to my mind, at least, at least I think
it's interesting researchers, at least in Bigfoot. I don't know if this is
true in ghosts or not. Researchers are honestly seem to be kind of few
and far between. Most of the people in the Bigfoot world tend to be
like fans of the subject or ficionados, you know, but almost nobody has
really taken notes, like using Excel sheets and you know that kind of stuff,
looking for patterns, and almost nobody really, very very few people.
Are there people doing that in the ghost field or are they doing the equivalent
of going out and banging on trees and listening for something and maybe bringing a
recording home, you know, which is I guess, Like, I don't
know. I've seen a few minutes of occasional ghost shows like I guess yelling
at a wall or something and saying are you there? I don't know.
I know very little about the ghost world, you know, I'd be very
honest. I know almost nothing about all this, so this is all new
to me. We're not that different, Cliff. We go into dark areas
by ourselves and we do our own versions of the whoop, hello, is
there anyone here? Knock on the wall if you can hear me, and
you bang the walls hoping they're going to bang back. So our shows are
not that different in that concept of hoping finding a way to connect with something
and get those answers. But there are a lot of different organizations that have
been working. The Ryan Institute UCLA used to have a huge parapsychological department.
Doctor Barry Taff work there. Thelma, oh gosh, her last name is
escaping me. But there have been a lot of different places and still that
continue to investigate these type of phenomenon to understand it or try to, and
they take the time to corroborate evidence and what they find. You know,
what are we able to tell? My friend Bill Chappele, who is the
engineer, He's created so many amazing fun interesting tools for the paranormal trade and
investigating ghosts. He will tell you he's not necessarily a believer in ghosts.
He can't tell you what's activating these pieces of equipment, but he'll take our
theories and build equipment around it as an actual electrical engineer to see can these
things be influenced by an outside source. And he had a tool called the
Paranormal Puck and it was not real flashy, it wasn't real pretty. You
plugged it into your laptop, you ran the software, but it would calibrate
and tell you what the temperature is, what the do point average was,
what the geomagnetic principles of the area you were in. It gave you all
of this background stuff that nobody really cared about because everybody just wants to see
a ghost. And he had tons of data, but nobody would bother to
look at the data in correlation with what was taking place. It became more
of a thrill in an entertainment industry than it did a scientific principle. And
I know I'm going to take heat for saying that, because there are teams
out there that claim their scientific but like you, where are there their reports?
Where is their scientific work and who have they peer reviewed with? And
you know what's going on that just doesn't exist anymore. Well so amongst the
data gatherers. So it sounds like there are some which is which is good
to hear, of course, you know amongst the data gatherers, has there
ever been a study already publishing or what's the gist of the apparitions or whatever?
For Lafe a better term that are observed? Are there are there a
predominance of a certain time period? Kind of going back to what we were
talking about before, like our most ghosts, you know, Victoria, for
example, Victorian era eighteen hundreds to the early nineteen hundreds. It's like,
you know, usually in that roundhouse of about maybe eighteen seventies to nineteen twenty
one, depending on the type of garb, the things that they do or
say or have been witnessed doing. But being a fan of science as well,
I'm not necessarily sure that we're seeing a dead person in the way that
you think we are. Well, which is what I want to ask you
next, like is that what we're dealing with? Because I'm friends with a
fair number of ghost folks, and it seems the jury is out like that.
They're not necessarily dead people that people are encountering. So what's going on
you think? I think some of it is time slip phenomena. I think
the concept that there are just points where you can you know, you're sharing
a location. You're sharing a place that has always existed and always will exist.
It's been in many different forms, but the spot you're sitting on has
always existed and always will well after you're gone and well before you were here.
And every person that treads that area is like a page in a book,
and from time to time, I think those pages align and you can
kind of see the text through one page into another. And you know,
like the movie The Others with Nicole Kidman where she's hearing these ghostly sounds and
voices and she's being tormented and spoiler alert on a twenty year old movie,
it turns out that they're the dead people and the voices she's hearing are people
from the future that are living in that house. And I really do think
that there are elements of that that have occurred. You know, ghost Hunters
did a TV episode when they went to I think it was Mount Washington uh
And Hotel, and they were engaging with the spirit and they you know,
Princess, can you hear us? Can? Yes, I can hear you.
This is my room. Where are you? What kind of game are
you playing? And she was going to get security, So that tells me
in her consciousness, she must have been in her room hearing these voices.
When I was at Waverly Hills Sanatorium in Kentucky, it was a tuberculosis clinic,
tens of thousands of people reportedly died, and then it was a geriatric
home in hospital, and nurses and doctors talked about it being haunted at its
time. And when we were there investigating, I was with two other fellow
investigators. We rounded the corner and a nurse walked around, stopped and looked
at us. Her eyes got huge, she turned and ran the other direction.
It's an old, dilapidated building at that point, there aren't nurses working
there. What did we just witness? And to her, did she tell
somebody in her time era? I just saw three ghosts in the hall.
I just saw three men that were there. They came out of nowhere.
And you know that's what's so fascinating to me about this. I can't give
you one specific answer to what this phenomenon is how it happens, because I
think there's many different layers to hauntings, and that's what keeps me so fascinated
and intrigued by this. Is at the Washington Hotel. The Wash in a
hotel in New Hampshire, Vermont up there. Yeah, that's right, Yeah,
Mount Washington. We were there and Moneymaker conjured up a ghost. Yeah.
We filmed Finding Bigfoot episode there. That's where we stayed, and we
were out in the woods doing stuff or whatever. But on our night off
or whatever, I wasn't involved in all that because Melissa was on the crew
and I was hanging out with her. But but everybody else went ghost hunning
that night and weird stuff happened. Well, our sound person or tech she
saw it. She saw it, and uh, it was up in the
ceiling area, like scrolling around and she didn't even know that that's where the
workers. It was like in this one landing kind of like vestibule area or
whatever, and on the staircases and they said, oh, yeah, that's
a really calm place to see it. But yeah, Moneymaker had his Himalay
like Tibetan Tibet like bowl, singing bowl that he brought with him from Tibet
or from from the ball. Rather, he got one of those when we
were out there doing the eddy stuff, and he brought it and he goes
he's like doing the thing on and having fun with it, right, and
the resonance of the bowl. Look, Native American and indigenous tribes, people
will talk about music and these things that will help them connect to the spiritual
realm and to nature. I know places that use singing bowls to try to
communicate with alien life forms. I know people that use them in the spiritual
realm to try to communicate with angry spirits and try to bring some harmony.
So it's interesting how there are commonalities and threads throughout all of the different levels
of what's considered supernatural or paranormal. And it is funny to me that Bigfoot
still falls under that umbrella for many people. Right. The cryptids are still
in that realm of the supernatural, and you know, just like they're cryptozoological
until we find one and now it becomes zoological and it will no longer be
supernatural. It'll be just part of our natural world. But it's interesting to
me that there are these different layers of the tapestry that still do seem to
connect things like Bigfoot sightings, alien or UFO sightings, and haunted hotspots.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right
back after these messages. You say, haunted, do you guys make a
delineation between older like entities that are like spirits or demons or whatever you want
to call them, versus just human souls like in a different time work kind
of thing. Yeah, That's what I was mentioning is there's all of these
different layers to what a haunting could be. And I think you're short sighted
if you just want to pigeonhole ghosts are this, you know, aliens are
this. I think there's many different possibilities to what these beings are, and
if we limit ourselves, it might limit our ability to look at them more
scientifically, to find a way to communicate, find ways to and circumvent the
normalcy of communication of things that we'd say, this can't be real, this
can't exist. So let's put our mindset in a different way. If we
examine it differently, can we find something that will actually make sense and start
to help us bridge that chasm and understand more about the spiritual realm. I
think there's times that they knew more two hundred years ago about ghosts and the
spiritual realm than we understand about it now. Same with creatures, right,
And you know the reverence people had for the mountain gorillas, but everybody thought
that it was a lie. It wasn't until I think it's only been like
one hundred and seventy years, one hundred and eighty years since gorillas were officially
found. It is like eighteen fifty two or something like that. And mountain
gorillas, I believe we're nineteen oh two. I probably am a year or
two often one of those. But yeah, right, And isn't that absurd
to think that that far along in our history, which is just a drop
of water and the microchasm of the universal ocean that we're a part of.
That's such a small percentage that we could say we've only known about this creature
legitimately for the last couple hundred years, something we take for granted. Good
girls have always been around. Yeah, I tell you know, what are
the things that makes me really lament our situation in the human situation In some
ways is that most people don't realize that science is in its infancy at this
moment, in its infancy one hundred and thirty years ago, about we didn't
know about germs, for God's sake, you know, like we have barely
begun our journey into the unknown. You know, most of our human history
has been a wash in superstition and mythology. Essentially, the science wasn't even
a thing, you know, until probably, I don't know, eighteen thirty
or something like that, eighteen fifty. Before that, they were called naturalists.
And then science wasn't even a thing. And we think we're all advanced
because we have, you know, iPhones in our now now we're infants.
And before that it was witches and shaman and it was magic, these things
that we were taking, these plant extracts that they would crush up and then
give to you for headache powder, and that's what we now call aspirin.
Right, it's so funny that science is not that far along. Even in
this baffles my mind. We still cannot figure out where consciousness exists in a
human being. We can't even define what consciousness is. And death is constantly
changing what we believed even ten years ago about death is radically different now,
and we're realizing that there may be consciousness in a physical body once the heart
stops for up to four hours. What do you think about this idea that
I've seen slowly start spreading, I think amongst the paranormal world, and I
think that's some bigfooters fall into this as well. And I don't think it
fits sasquatch stuff at all, of course, But you know me, I'm
pretty practical about this whole animal thing. But the other paranormal stuff, I
think the jury's out. I don't know anything about it. I'm coming from
a place of ignorance, and I'm going to enjoy that ignorance. You know,
ignorance is bliss. I'm gonna be pretty happy about this for the moment
because I don't know much. This idea of like the grand unification theory of
the paranormal, where some people instead of ghosts and demons and this and that's
and whatever is, they just refer to it as the phenomenon. What do
you think about that? Or is that boiling it down too much and maybe
disrespecting certain aspects of these other phenomenon. Well, I can see that element
of it. But I also see the fact that if we just accept it
as one thing, that it becomes less ominous because look, I can sit
here and talk to you about ghosts and demons because I've encountered things that I
would put into those categories. To me, the concept of this hairy,
hominid, bipedal creature that could be nine to fourteen feet tall depending on who
you speak to, that's there one second, go on the next. That
would be an easy roll of the eyes and snicker right about you guys actually
believe this thing exists. But then I'm two seconds later talking about ghosts and
demons, which to somebody else sounds ridiculous. So if we normalize it and
take away the stigma of well, this is weird, that's not is the
theay folk. Is that any less weird than Bigfoot? I don't think so,
because it's gone back in culture, like the indigenous tribes have talked about
Bigfoot and have seen them as you know, a fellow race of indigenous people
to a creature, to something almost godlike in some instances, that aliens kind
of fit that same realm. Ghosts fit that same realm. So if we
come together on one common ground and say this is phenomenon, and this may
all be tied together, it may be different, but at least we take
the time to look at it. Because if you take out part of science,
you take out you know, we're examining blood, but we don't want
to look at platelets because platelets aren't our thing. We're all about, you
know, white blood cells. Well, then you're missing a big part of
the full you know, spectrum of the picture. So I think that by
having this kind of universal approach to look at this, I think that could
be a healthier way for us all to examine it. Take it a little
bit more seriously, and you know, the pegs will fall out for the
weak links, for the things that don't make any sense. There's nothing word
about the faithfolk though, well James Bobo faith. There's something pretty weird about
that one, right. But here's the old thing. I remember having this
discussion with Rosemary Ellen Guiley. She was the Queen of the Nighttime World,
another prolific author we lost a few years ago, and speaker and teacher,
and she she kind of put me in my place one day because I was
laughing about the fact she had a book about fairies coming out, and I'm
like, oh my god, seriously, and she's like, why is that
so stupid and funny to you? And I'm like, they're fairies, that's
Disney stuff, and she goes, well, Dave, do you realize how
many Disney movies have creatures and ghosts in them? Do you scoff at that
because that's been represented in your shows? And I'm like, well, no,
but that's different. How is that different? These stories predate ghost stories
in some instances. They will look at the Fay and these elemental beings as
something that predate even Christianity, the Gin and many things that are referred to
and referenced in the Bible that predate known man in history. It's really kind
of compelling. And she gave me another way to look at it. She
said, you'll look at Bigfoot and say, yeah, that could be real.
You'll look at ghosts and say, oh sure, and aliens of course.
But the Fay, No, that can't be possible. She said,
that's being ridiculous. There is something to that. People have this, you
know, love and compassion and respect for it in other countries. And then
I started reading news stories in the two thousands, not not meaning that there's
been over two thousand new stories, But I mean since the two thousands began,
I have found new stories where multiple countries and cultures have diverted major roadways
to avoid troll houses or fairy rings or fairy mounds or giant mounds because they
don't want to disturb that culture, that being or set of beings. So
there must be something to it that makes it much more real than we would
give it credit to. So you know, I've learned to be open to
all of it. I don't scoff at anything anymore, no matter how ludicrous
it may sound to me, because just because it hasn't been my experience doesn't
mean that it isn't real. You know, there is a parallel of that
in the Sasquatch world, even the flesh and blood Sasquatch world, you know
where I tend to dwell, And it's that this idea of relati hominoids,
you know, Harry hominoids worldwide, because almost certainly like the Iran, for
example, is not the Sasquatch. It's a different species. But we don't
know that jury's out about the Joren or the Yowie or even the Alma.
That the Alma has so many different characteristics, and then there is actually a
footprint evidence of the Alma and it doesn't seem to be a sasquatch, but
still, and the discovery of any of those would benefit the all of the
others in that people would be more open to their possibility. So perhaps there's
a that's a parallel of what you're actually describing, but in the you know,
the unknown mystery ape world, right, And it's all fascinating and interesting
that these cultures exist like this. And I'll tell you what. There are
times where you can tell me your story and your experience. I don't have
to believe it. And sometimes what I find more fascinating than anything is why
you believe in these things. So that's part of the human element, is
learning and exchanging of ideas and concepts and seeing what might make sense to you
once you've heard somebody else's theology or belief system on it. Now, speaking
of believing, I know you're very open to all sorts of things, but
you believe sasquatches are real, right in some sort of way? Right now?
Is that based on an experience or is that because the evidence, or
is that you've heard so many stories or what's going on there? Well,
listen like you guys. I grew up in the era of In Search of
and I saw that footage when they started sharing it of the Patterson Gamelin film.
I was also born in nineteen sixty seven the same year, so that
had a fascination for me right that footage came out, So I always thought
that was cool, But I didn't start taking notice of that until mid seventies
when it was on TV all the time, and when I would go down
to visit my grandparents in seventy four seventy five to Folly, Alabama. My
grandparents owned forty acres of property and only about ten acres was livable. The
rest was just wildness, right, and there were snakes and water moccas and
snakes and alligators in the back because they had ponds and water streams back there,
so it was not a safe place to be as a kid. But
we used to go play in that area all the time. And one time
my cousin and I were down by the pond at probably about nine ten o'clock
in the morning fishing and we just heard something big tramping around out there,
and we kept looking at each other kind of like, well, you're here.
I guess I'm okay, right, it's that safety in numbers. But
it was big, whatever it was, and we could hear it stomping around.
And then finally at the back of the pond there were these tall shrubs
and bushes that maybe eight nine feet tall, and I see this hand come
up over the top of the bush and it pushes the bush down. And
now I can see from about the tip of the nose up of this being
that I believe was a sasquatch, but it had a darker inset face.
It had this kind of blackish gray maine and the hair came up over its
fingers like Chewbacca's hair. Right. It wasn't just like you would think of
a gorilla. It was like long, drapy hair. And my cousin and
I just literally my brain broke. We just stared at this thing and then
looked at each other and turned back around and looked at this thing staring at
us, and then we scooby dooted up the hill. And half of the
thing we're laughing about is we're going to get up there and find out it's
one of our idiot dads in a gorilla mask trying to freak us out.
We get up to the house. Our dads are there, our cousins are
there, our grandpas are there, our uncles are there. Everybody's accounted for,
and we were so spun out by it that they all grabbed their rifles
and went out into the woods looking. And at that time, nobody was
thinking, go to the area where it stood and look at the ground.
Are their footprints. I'm sure that there was regret because my uncle grew to
love bigfoot stories and I'm sure he always kind of kicked himself for never having
gone to look at that space. But that was the perfect environment for something
like this to live because ten acres is livable. It leaves you, you
know, thirty acres of woodland area that nobody goes into really because of all
of the other inherent dangers that are out there. So it's kind of a
safety zone and safety buffer for whatever might be existing. And my grandparents saw
UFO activity over their property, So again, here's a nexus point where here's
a creature, here's alien UFO things that have been seen over their property.
It's it's kind of telling again that in some of these places it just aligns
properly. So yeah, having had that experience as a child, it's always
been niggling at the back of my head that I think I had a big
Foot sighting. Now I also am honest to the fact that I was ten
eleven years old when it happened. It could have been a homeless man,
big homeless guy wearing a tattered jacket, and I misunderstood what I saw,
but it was so big and crunching around. My dad and uncle and grandfather
used to go out hunting in part of the back of the woods and you
could hear him walking and it was just a this was like when it was
walking, it was with force, and you know, it just sounded different
and big and loud. So that was really kind of an instigation for me
to really be fascinated by Bigfoot. And then the other part to me that
I absolutely love is the fact that the Peterson Gimblin Bigfoot film to me,
is one of the coolest examples of this phenomenon because as time has progressed and
we're able to stabilize the film, clear up the film, and scientifically look
at it, to me, it only gets better. Where I would have
thought that with the abilities that we've got. It would have degraded the footage
and made it look worse or made it so glaringly obvious that it was a
costume. And I think that, and I don't know where you guys stand
on this particularly, but that footage to me, still holds the test of
time fifty six years later, Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. And then who are
your two detractors? And I'll get emails from your fans and listeners. It'll
be like you're a moron and talking out of your ass. You don't know
what you're discussing. It was a prank put on by Bob Huronymous and I
can't remember the name of the costumer off the Philip Morris, and I actually
had both of those gentlemen on my radio show and I talked to them about
it, and they, oh, it was awesome we created the costume,
and I said, okay. So in nineteen sixty seven, the Planet of
the Apes came out. That was cutting edge technollogy makeup with millions of dollars
put into the work. There was two thousand and one a Space Odyssey,
which opens with these bipedal Harry homidids that looked like crappy, long haired gorilla
costumes. Really bad. The only other thing that was even close to looking
realistic were the monkeys Mickey, Davey, Peter and Mike right. The rest
the rest of the costumes and everything looked cartoonish. And that's I love the
Planet of the Apes movies, but it still looked like a costume. So
you mean to tell me that that in nineteen sixty seven you created a costume
out of an old gorilla costume and football pads that stands the test of time
today that we can actually see muscle structure in the calves, the thighs and
the back as it's walking away. And when they gave you the opportunity to
recreate this in the early two thousands, or maybe it was at late nineties,
they gave them the ability to recreate a costume with the new technology that
exists. Their costume looked junkier than something my kids could have put together.
And that was a professional costumer. What was their response to that, because
I'd never spoken to either of those men. H Philip Morris just well,
no, yeah, you know I mean that was like at the top of
the line costume back in the day, and Brob, I said, right,
But the fact that you could not reproduce it forty years later with new
technology and better costumes, because the Jacklink's bigfoot has been around now for what
twenty years, and that costume and footage is amazing. You couldn't even get
close to that with the schlocky costume that you put together and had Heronymous walking
around in. And they, you know, I was very polite throughout the
conversation, but I pushed on these points and they couldn't give me an answer
I felt was real. I felt it was all very disingenuous and to what
end. I don't understand why disavow it unless they felt like they got cut
out of something. And as far as I understand, there wasn't a lot
of money that was made, and really the only one that really made the
money was Patterson on the footage, and I don't even know that that's a
reality. Maybe you guys can answer that element for me. He made some
money, yeah, he and al Viatley made money, but they cut Bob
out of it. Bob never really made anything out of it. In fact,
Bob told me he sold all rights to his one third share of the
film The Reneeda Hinden for one dollar because he was so tired of being called
a liar and you know, almost broke up his marriage and ruined his life
in a lot of ways. But he made enough money that he went to
Indonesia on a wild goose chase because he received a letter saying that they had
a live sasquatch like creature in an Indonesian monastery. And he spent his money
that he earned by taking it on tour and going to places like the Spokane
Colisee, in the Portland Coliseum and whatever else. He spent all that money
on a trip to Indonesia on a wild goose chase. Wasn't that they believed
that they had like the top of the skull. No, No, that
you're thinking of the Pingbolche skull in the Pingbolcha hand, which is in the
Himalayas A little bit different. They said they had a live sasquatch in a
cage. And in fact, a number of years ago a gentleman who at
the time was an anthropology student in Eastern Washington, I believe, contacted me
and said that he was the guy that Roger kind of lined up to pull
some shenanigans if they had to, because he was going to go try to
buy the sasquatch from the monks at the monastery, but if things went sideways,
he was willing to steal it, and he had an anthropologist on hand
to help him with it if in case it ever went that far. But
it never did or anything, so there was nothing illegal going on, but
apparently he sure thought about it. So that seems like an awfully weird thing
to do if you're if you you know, put somebody in a suit and
filmed it. And he died in basically poverty in like what seventy two,
seventy three, I think it was seventy three, I think, Yeah,
he died thinking that with more money he could probably cure himself of the Hodgskins
disease that killed him. So yeah, it's unfortunate but weird behavior for someone
who easily hoaxed such a great and compelling piece of footage. Well, and
then the problem, you know, in all of our industries is there's got
to be some p T. Barnum jackuad out there who's got to do things
that really cast a pall over what we're trying to look at and accomplish.
And you know, you know, those are things that have put a deep
blemish on the fascination for a lot of people. They just expected all to
be hokum and nonsense. Yeah, it really gives the subject a black eye
where people hear about these hoaxes or these twisted tails and they think there's nothing
there. There's because the cool stuff, the subtle, slow erosion into the
truth, you know, to the truth, not of the truth. You
know, this this this erosion of ignorance as we learn more and more about
the animals themselves. That stuff isn't flashy, it's not sexy, and that
stuff doesn't get any play on the media. Unfortunately because of it, you
know, we have. We had trouble with our TV show for the same
reason. You know, it had to be you know, flashy and cool
and had to hook people because you got to get them around for that commercial
break. I mean, I think Bobo go to to test to this.
I've got I got a hundreds of emails from people saying you're doing this all
wrong. You're banging on trees making noise. Dope. You guys are jackasses.
You should go sit in a tree stand and blow descent and be quiet
and thinking, well, that's horrible, horrible television. First of all,
no one's ever going to watch that. But you know, at the same
time, like, I've been pretty successful the last couple of years with this
bigfoot thing, gathering all sorts of interesting evidence and information. But a walk
on a road during the day where one out of five times, one out
of eight times you go you find something cool that's not sexy, that's just
time spent in the word, and the media just doesn't care. But they
sure like when some jackass dresses up in a monkey suit and waves at a
train, right. But again, even in those elements, there's something that's
a good takeaway. Like I was just like everybody, I kind of bought
into that, and I was like, that's cool footage. But what I
found even more compelling about it is here you've got something that people could say,
there's no way a bigfoot could be there one second and gone the next.
From that footage, when that guy crouches down into kind of the fetal
position, he just becomes part of the bushes. If you weren't paying attention,
you wouldn't have even noticed that there was a guy out there dressed in
a gorilla suit. So if that's possible, why couldn't an actual creature that's
used to these areas and adaptable have evolved in a way that they could be
standing right there and never notice because of the way that they hide themselves and
blend into their surroundings. Yeah, that suit is actually commercially available, and
it's pretty yellow. It's kind of a golden yellow brown color. And I
know that that Colorado train footage thing that we're talking about, that's like the
dead grass and stuff that it was, that's kind of a similar color.
A Sasquatches for the most part, are darker in color, you know,
not not always, but darker in color. They are the color of the
woods, just like pretty much every other animal that lives in the woods.
Of great interest, and certainly they are very very good what they do,
and most of the time when they are seen, the first thing they do
is stand completely still. You can wear turquoise in the woods and at two
hundred yards stand completely still and you're probably not going to be seen. Yeah,
that's what I think is so astounding about this, And I've seen some
of these beautiful documentaries that have been made showing the adaptability of so many different
wildlife species, of how easily they can blend in and how their bodies have
learned to fool nature itself. Right, There's a snake whose tongue looks like
a bug flying around, so when a bird comes down to get it,
the snake and get the bird, right, that shows the adaptability and just
how brilliant nature is. So if a snake can make itself look like a
bug for you know, something to eat and on, all of these other
animals have got these ways of just adapting. The cuddlefish that becomes trans translucent
octopus that can change multiple colors and kind of fade into any kind of obscure
background. That's really remarkable. You know. I know it's a big foot
show, but I gotta ask you. You said you've experienced demons in person.
I'm very cautious with using that. I have been in a few instances
where I believe that the person I'm dealing with may be possessed or at least
dealing with an oppression of something more malevolent because of the abilities and things that
are going on around that person, and it has been very frightening. I
can't say that, you know, like I go and I see Bobo and
cliffs standing there. I've never had that experience where I just go and there's
a demon. But I've been in that situation twice and it has been very
disarming. Nothing like it ever when I've been to you know, actual hauntings.
I think it is so few and far between true demonic possession or demonic
realm existing in some of these locations. I just think a lot of it
is people's perceptions or fear levels. Like you guys have no problem tramping around
in the woods even though there's bear and coyote and wildcats and mountain lions out
there. You're out there protecting yourself, but you're still putting yourself in harm's
way. I wouldn't do that right. That to me sounds crazy. I'm
more afraid of being eaten by something that we know exists in my search to
find something we're kind of sure exists. So to me, that's a different
deal. But like with the paranormal, I know ghosts exist, I don't
I can't tell you what they are, but I don't run into the demonic
realm that often that is such a very limited slice of the pie. And
I've talked to people that have been terrified, and I'll tell your audience this
is one of my favorite stories. This woman reached out to me. She
goes, I had this paranormal team come in. They were here fifteen minutes
and left and they shared the EVP with me, and they told me on
their way out, we have a demon and that they're not capable of dealing
with this. And I said, well, what was the EVP the electronic
voice phenomenon recording, and she played it for me and you hear them talking
in the background. They're like, yeah, we're going to shut up our
equipment. And then you hear which sounds like somebody's stomach making a noise,
and that was it. Maybe that was haunted by a frog, right that
was the demonic growl? And she goes yeah, And I said, well,
what brought them to your house? She goes, well, I have
this wall with all my collector's plates on it, and right in the middle
was my great grandmother's plate. And I was sitting here in the day and
it flew off the wall and broke. I said, okay, did it
make like a pentagram pattern on the floor. No, did it make like
a six sixty six with the broken shards? No? Did the shards jump
in the air and try to impale you against the wall? No, that's
stupid. And I said, so, why do you believe it was a
demon? Well, it was my great grandmother's plate. And I said,
so do you think today, just go with me on this, do you
think that during roll call in Hell today, as Lucifer's before his army,
he says, all right, you bobo, go out and start a war
in the Middle East. Cliff, I want you to go raise oil prices,
and Dave go break great grandma's plate. And she laughed, and I
said, do you realize the absurdity of that? Do you think that?
Is that like Satan's kind of off nephew, and that's the only job you
can trust him with. And we talked about it, and I said,
just out of curiosity, where did your great grandmother get it? She goes,
she got it from her mother in law when they got married. And
I said, oh, what was their relationship? Like? Oh, they
hated each other. I said, so, could it be that great grandma
came to you and saw that played up there and knock it off the wall
once and for all to be done with it. And she laughs, she
goes, That's exactly what my great grandmother would have been. Like. I
got to ask you. You said, did the pieces come flying? Have
you talked to people that have had that happen, like stuff break and then
fly out them and stuff like that. Yeah, I've had people make some
pretty remarkable claims, and I have not seen that myself where things have leapt
up and flown. I've seen things move slowly from one room to another,
or I've been there and listen, guys, I'm a skeptical believer. I've
had experiences my whole life. But I questioned them constantly. Do you believe
any of the people that told you the stories those stories like that? Yeah?
Yeah, Again, it's hard not to because it's their story and I
wasn't there, and I don't want to be cruel to them if this is
something that happened. But on the Holeser Files, I got knocked on my
tail two or three times by an unseen force. And had you asked me
a day before I filmed that first episode, if I believe that was possible,
I would have told you there's no way on God's green Earth that's possible.
That shtick, that's Hollywood nonsense. And when I got knocked on my
ass in the Holser Files first episode at Whaleyhouse, you guys have been around
camera guys in dark right, They're trying to get around you to get a
good shot, and they're tripping over logs or whatever. I just assumed that
one of the camera guys had come around behind me in this pitch black room
and tripped on the carpet and fell into me. Because it was that heavy.
It felt like something hit me, like it was falling into me.
And when you watch the episode and I turn around, my brain just can't
figure out what I'm not seeing. There should have been something there. I
got hit hard and I can't wrap my head around it. Now. Do
I believe it was a demon? No? Do I think it was a
pissed off ghost. Yes? Do I understand why it was so pissed off?
Yeah? I do believe I know why it was. You know,
a spirit, a Mexican spirit that had been and kind of a hero to
his own people, and he was coming back into San Diego with his group
to try to take back the land that had been stolen from them, and
how were they treated. They were hung or forced to dig their own graves
and then stand in front of the grave while they were shot to death.
So I think that we uncover the story of this ghost and why it's there,
and give it a voice again and help people have a name to connect
to the history. And sometimes it stops, it stops being that way it
could have been. I could have jumped to the conclusion of demon very easily,
and I was so lucky to have a great production team that never once
asked us to say anything was a demon. They would ask, is there
any chance that's demonic? And then we would debate it on camera, and
then when we would calm down and cooler heads would prevail, we'd often all
right, let's not assume it's a demon. Let's assume it's this ghost,
and what can we do to help it? What's the next layer of this
story? What do we have to do to help out? And so that's
I come at it from a different point. I'm not walking in a place
of fear all the time. That's something evil is trying to do me harm.
I understand ghosts might just be an unsettled spirit, if I elect to
stay here and watch over my family after I die in spirit form, I'm
a wise ass as a human. Why wouldn't I be a wise ass as
a ghost? If somebody is afraid, why wouldn't I poke them? Why
wouldn't I moment freak them out? Right? I think once you get past
that, that's when that's when you start to have really interesting experiences. And
that's what I live for now. Dave, we're kind of coming towards the
end of our time here, but you have a new book that's out,
and I'm wondering how much of this stuff is in the book because the name
of the book is Theater the Mind, Tales from the Darkness, ghosts,
UFOs, aliens, monsters, and other strange stories of the supernatural. Like
where are these stories coming from that you wrote down in this new book of
yours? Like are we listening to some of them right now? Or just
like this is like some sort of autobiographical thing, or tell us about the
book because it's brand new. It is. It's a brand new book that
I just released here in January, the end part of January, and it's
stories that people have sent to me through the years. And shared with me
to share with my audience, and a few of the stories are my own
examples. One is a haunted doll that was given to me, and I
share the story of why it was given to me, what unnerved the family
so much that they demanded to get it out of its house, you know,
get it out of their house. And then I had it for a
number of years and had some weird experiences, and somebody else wanted it and
they now are the owner of that strange doll. So I just tell the
story and how it affected me. There's a story in there about my experience
in a haunted hospital when I was there having my gallbladder removed. That story
that actually featured on a TV show called Haunted Hospitals. They didn't tell the
right story, but you know, it's a fun story to watch unfold on
TV. And then the real story, which I think is creepier than what
they put out. And then the rest of the stories are stories from people
just like you and me that have been in the right place at the right
time, or had an experience that they can't wrap their head around. Some
of the people just want to remain anonymous and do not want their story associated
with them because they are military or law enforcement, or even moms that just
don't want their kids who love the paranormal listening to these shows to hear what
their mom saw or dealt with. So I've shared those stories in ways that
whoever says I can involve their names, I involve their names. For the
people that ask me not to, I keep the names out of it,
and I just clear up their punctuation, their grammar, flesh out the story
a little bit, but it is exactly as they told me. And that's
what we have to offer up for people. And this first book has I
think fifteen or sixteen stories in it, everything from time slip phenomena to doppelgangers,
changelings, this creature, the Bloody bones Man that's terrifying the black eyed
kids, ghosts and UFOs and aliens. So it's I didn't want the book
to be pigeonholed as a ghost story book. It is a book that tells
many different stories from many different walks of life and many different belief systems,
and it's just these are stories I don't think should just lay in somebody's drawer,
So I'm happy to put them out there and the people that shared the
stories with me all gave me permission. As a matter of fact, it's
nice. I go on Amazon and look up my book Theater of the Mind
Tales from the Darkness, and I've got, you know, over fifty reviews,
and a few of those reviews are from the people whose story I represented
in the book, and they were so pleased with the way the story came
out and me telling their story in a respectful way and keeping their you know,
sanctity. Didn't that black eyed kids think kind of come and go.
I really haven't heard much about that lately. Well, you know, we
pinpoint the first story to Brian Bethel in the late nineties who had an experience
with it, and he was a reporter who actually went on the record sharing
his experience, and then many people started talking about it. Once we pulled
that bandage off, other people started relating stories. Now again, it's a
great story that fits into the realm of urban legend. But unlike urban legend
stories, which always happened to a friend of a friend of a friend and
it was passed along, Brian Bethel was the guy and he tells you his
story that could be wrong. What wasn't that original originally from Portland, Oregon.
I can't remember where Brian's from, to be honest with you. Yeah,
my wife got interested in that. My wife's and all sorts of weird
things, you know, like paranormal stuff. So she got interested in that,
and she looks it up and she apparently, well, if it didn't
come from Portland, Oregon, you can actually find out where something like that
happened in Portland, Oregon, like the cross Streets where that happened. Yeah,
and he explains it in his article, so you can look up Brian
Bethel and Black Eyed Children and you know, read his story as he tells
it. So I've had people share their stories, and again, they're really
weird. They kind of fit in that demonic and vampiric line legend and lore
of they want you to follow them somewhere, or they need your permission to
enter your car or your home, and they get very angry when you don't
allow them in. So it's an interesting element. And I've heard so many
different variations of these stories. You know, if you'd like, I'll tell
you when that happened here in Minnesota. That is one of my favorites.
It was yeah, sure, it's a good way to end the podcast here.
Yeah, absolutely do it. Yeah, And this is not in the
book, but it's one of the stories I'll probably put in a future book
because I love it. We had talked about the black eyed kids. I
had this great couple. They were an elderly couple who listened to my radio
show. We were on ten o'clock till midnight every night, Monday through Friday.
And she contacted me. She goes, you know, after you did
that black eyed kid story, I've got to tell you what happened to my
husband and I. And this was a few years ago. We had all
that rain. Remember it just was like two weeks of rain. Dave.
I'm like, yeah, she goes, well, we were diligent listeners.
We would watch the news from nine to ten, turn off the news,
go in to bed, turn on the radio, and fall asleep listening to
your radio show. And I'm like, well, that's great. And she
goes in this one night, we turn off the TV and we can hear
what sounds like kids running around out in our front yard, playing in the
puddles and playing in the rain. And my husband went over and he looked
through the blinds and he's like, God, what's going on. Where are
these screwy kids? And she said, honey, listen, it's been raining
NonStop. The parents probably just let the kids run around to burn off some
energy. We used to play in the rain. Okay, they go to
bed, that's it. About three o'clock in the morning, she wakes up
and her husband sleeps with his back to the wall. She's sleeping closer to
the door, and she wakes up and there are three children standing inside the
room. There's a girl in the middle and two boys flanking her, and
she can see them from the light that's in the room. They have jet
black eyes. She says, Dave, I closed my eyes. I took
a deep breath because I'm a good listener. I'm a good student of the
paranormal, and we know that in those moments that hypnagoga hypnopompic states of when
we're going into sleep or coming out of them, we can have these hallucinot
moments where dreams and reality come together. And maybe I was dreaming about children
and this is just a layer of it. So I closed my eyes.
I took a couple of cleansing breaths. And I opened my eyes and they
were still standing there, and I started to reach to my husband and I
opened my mouth to scream, and the little girl in the middle step forward,
pressing her finger to her lips. She said, sh we just want
to look at you. Oh right, she scream shakes her husband. He
gets up. They go through the entire house, turning on every light in
the entire house and that's great, husband, right, He gets up with
her to go find out what's going on. They cuddled in bed, lights
burning in the house until morning time, and that's when they heard the sound
of kids laughter outside again, and it just unnerved and freaked them out.
But my favorite part of the story. First of all, that was a
weird, bone chilling tale, But my favorite part was a couple nights later
after we share that story, I go down from our radio station into the
parking ramp and there's cop car parked behind my car and he goes, are
you Dave Schrader, And I'm like yeah, with Darkness Radio, I'm like
yeah. He goes, yeah, We got to tell you, big fans
of the show. All the night crews on EMTs, firefighters and police love
your stuff. We don't believe it. It's insane, but it's fun to
listen to, and you know, you get great stories on there. But
the other night you told that story about the three black eyed kids in that
woman's room here in Minnesota, and it was about eleven forty five. You
told the story and then went to commercial break. And you go to commercial
break, and my partner and I start laughing about how absurd and stupid this
is. When we get a call over the radio that an elderly woman is
calling to complain that there are three children in her front yard at eleven forty
five at night that she doesn't know and they won't leave. And he said,
and I looked at my partner and he looked at me, and we
shook our head and turned the radio off and said, screw that, we're
not going. So I love the fact that the cops were so unnerved by
the story they wouldn't even go out to investigate what was happening. That's fantastic.
That is just fantastic. And I know you said that story is not
in your book, but you also commented briefly saying this first book is blah
blah blah. And I thought to myself dude, with a lifetime of experience
and listening to people like you have, there could be endless numbers of these
books. And if you can write half as well as you speak, man,
I'm going to read every single one. That's fantastic. Well I've got
I'm hoping to have the second book out around June or July this year and
then maybe get the third volume out by Halloween. And I'd like to put
out these books and with the stories that people share. So if your listeners
have strange experiences with Bigfoot or choopacabra, or aliens, or ghosts or weija
boards psychic phenomena, they can email me Dave at Paranormal sixty dot com.
That's Dave at Paranormal six zero dot com and let me know if I can
share your story. We might reach out to you in the future a share
it on the radio show The Paranormal sixty, or it may be included an
upcomingvolume of one of the books that we put out. And again, my
job is not to prove or disprove any of these stories. My job as
a curator to share the stories that people have had happen. And the reason
that I've taken that tack is that there have been some of the stories I've
heard that are easy to make you roll your eyes at, and then we've
shared them on the air, and I've received emails and phone calls from listeners
saying, Dave, I want you to know that I've had a very weird
life and I had an experience identical to that with the exact same creature,
and I thought I was insane. Now that I know I'm not alone,
I feel so much better that somebody else has seen what I saw. So
I've removed all judgment and just share the stories as they're given to me because
I think they're fascinating, interesting looks into the human psyche and belief system that
is fantastic. And this is the kind of stuff that you get on the
Paranormal sixty podcast as well. Yeah, we're live Mondays and Wednesdays on YouTube.
You can watch the Paranormal sixty Live where I'll talk to my guests and
it's a video interview. And then the audios released Tuesday to all platforms,
So I have a little Paranormal sixty podcast kind of network that has five different
shows Monday. If you tune into the audio version, you get New England
Legends with Ray Ager and Jeff Balang. Or Tuesday you get the Paranormal sixty.
Wednesday Monsters Lounge with my friends Tresa and Jenny. Thursday you get the
Paranormal sixty News and then Friday we've got True Hauntings, which is a show
that comes out of Australia. These two amazing ladies that kind of look at
paranormal stories, de evolve them, try to understand them and weigh in on
if they think that after what they've read and the proof that's been presented,
is it a real haunting or not. So we wanted to make a network
where it was safe to come no matter what your beliefs or interests are.
And there are stories for everybody. And of course your book is now out.
You can get on Amazon if you want, but there's a better place
to get it because from I under sand Dave will sign it for you.
If you get it from a website, where is that? Yeah? If
you now for people listening around the world, I can't ship it out.
The books are crazy. To send a book to another country, it costs
more than the book would have cost to buy it. So you're better off
buying it directly from Amazon, but if you're in the United States and would
like assigned copy, just go to Paranormal sixty dot com. That's Paranormal six
zero dot com and on that front page just scroll down you'll see the place
where you can order either a signed or an unsigned copy of the book.
As soon as I get the order, I sign them and send them out
that day, so that's available, and I hope that your listeners will come
along on my journey and enjoy what we have to share as well. Well.
I'm looking forward to digging into your book for sure. It's been a
delight to speak to you, David. Thank you so much for coming on
the podcast. I sincerely appreciate it. And when these other books hit the
shelves too, let me know love to have you back on because you're just
a pleasure to speak to. And guys, let me tell you this from
the bottom of my heart, thank you for the work that you do and
for both being so accessible to your fans and to people that have an entry
in this field, because that makes the world a little smaller and it makes
people feel more like a part of something that we can share. These experiences,
have these experiences and know that there are people like you that are entertaining,
educational, and informative. So thank you guys for what you're doing,
for doing this amazing show as well. All right, well, yeah,
thank you too, Dave. It's good talking to you again. We appreciate
you coming on. I'll hopefully talk to both of you again real soon,
yeah, hopefully. All right, folks, Well, thanks a lot for
Dave Shuder coming out and talk with us today. Hope you all on jored
as much as we did. And until next week, you guys know what
to do. Keep it squatchy. Well, thanks for listening to this week's
episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate
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