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Hello, and welcome to episode number
one thirty one of The Cheese Steaks,

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a controller's podcast presented by Fox PHL, The Gambler one or two point five

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FM, fourteen eighty AM and I
Heart Radio. This is Jason Vanella.

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You know, I've been a r
away for a bit, not gonna lie.

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Went through a bit of a month
hiatus. There had my show that

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went on Mary Poppins at St.
Francis over in Springfield. That was a

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good couple of weeks. Then I
came down with a bit of a cold.

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Sounded like dust for a little bit. Probably still will. Maybe I

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might sneak in here, might see
here. I feel a little you know,

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weird voice stuff happening, just you
know, try to ignore it.

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Sorry about that, but I had
to record something. I had to come

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back this week, and the reason
for that is because it's Zelda week.

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Yep. Zelda Tears of the Kingdom
has released today. As you're listening to

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this, my version is probably downloading
on my switch as you hear this.

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I'm not sure when I want to
be able to jump in myself. I

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did not review it was not part
of the initial reviews of although if you

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want to check those out. I
hope you like the number ten because there

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were a lot of them, and
we'll get into that. We will start

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the episode with the what the critics
are saying about Tiers of the Kingdom,

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and then I want to move into
more discussion about how to get into Zelda,

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classic Zelda versus modern Zelda, because
every time I feel like a new

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Zelda comes out of this debate starts
up again about the classic version versus the

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new way to play, and kind
of gauge you know, what Zelda is

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now or what it's going to be. And then finally we'll start with the

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best entry point for new Zelda players
is that this new game should you try

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something different, I mean there for
all of Nintendo's wacky like shop preservations sort

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of things, most if not all, of the Zelda games are available to

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you right now, I think,
with some exceptions. So um, we'll

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go through what would be the best
one to start with if you were getting

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into Zelda for the first time at
the end of the episode. But first

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let's start with that review round up
four Tiers of the Kingdom and whole Boy,

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is this game really impressing people?
Ninety seven average on open Critic,

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which is just absolutely absurd. The
highest rated game ever on the platform,

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which is saying something considering elden Ring
was last year and probably was the previously

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highest rated before that. Thanks to
Darren Bontas over at game Spot, he

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provided a very good review round up, and we're going to go through a

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couple of the more choice quotes,
plus some things that I was seeing on

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Twitter from folks who had reviewed the
game. So let's start with that.

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Game Spot. Their reviewer was also
ten out of ten. Steve Watts quote

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here is Tears of the Kingdom is
a canvas for your own creativity, a

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book to write your own stories,
a world to create your own legends.

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It gives you back as much as
you put into it and beckons you to

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soar borrow, engineer, solve,
adventure, and explore. And that seems

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to be right off the jump.
The big takeaway from all of these reviews

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is the freedom that this game gives
you, even more so than what Breath

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of the Wild gave you. Someone
said in their review, I want to

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say it was Igenne tom Marks.
He said that Breath of the Wild some

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areas felt unfinished or they didn't like
they didn't get their full creative vision all

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the way through. But now playing
Tiers of the Kingdom, the entire game

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looks like a rough draft, and
that to me was eye opening. Look

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I'm not naive, I'm not.
This is my first rodeo. I did

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not expect Tears of the Kingdom to
come out and be panned or like a

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Red Fall situation, no offense to
Red Fall. I did not expect people

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to hate it. Did I expect
people to like it this much? No,

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Honestly, I really thought that based
on what I was seeing, it

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was just you know, I don't
want to say Breath the Wild one point

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five, because there was definitely more
to do, like the sky the sky

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islands and building things and stuff like
that. So I want to say that

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it wasn't just derivative or just small
iterations. But I also didn't think it

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was going to be different enough to
really get people's eyes opening like this.

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But man, I was wrong.
And then Tom Marx in his IgM review,

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he continues that the game is an
unfathomable follow up to one of the

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greatest games ever made, somehow improving
upon it nearly every way, be that

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with simple quality of life improvements,
a genuinely exciting story which we'll get to,

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or wildly creative new building mechanics that
make you rethink what is possible.

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That is some high praise there from
Tom Marks. And speaking of the story,

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it seems that Gannendorff, his absence
in the first game, is heavily

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remedied in this one. Someone's saying
that in comparison to the lad game,

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he's back and he's chatty, which
I'm fine with. I feel that the

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first game, that wonder of not
knowing what the overall villain, what to

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expect from the overall villain, and
that feeling of you know it fitting in

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with the rest of the game,
where the entire game was a curiosity,

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including the main malevolent force, and
you don't see it until the very end

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or whenever you decide to take on
high roll Castle. I appreciated that,

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But here bringing him in and making
him more of a major part of the

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story, it sounds like it was
the right call not to mention Giant Samurai

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Daddy that he is. But I
like that he's back. I like that

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he has a more prevalent part of
the story, or more of focus in

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the story at least it sounds like. And then again the word I say,

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the word focus, But in a
game like this, the word focus,

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I guess doesn't really apply because it's
so open ended. I was reading

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times another GameSpot article how Long to
Beat Tiers of the Kingdom, said that

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fifty hours is probably a minimum,
right. If you just do the story

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things, you're going to be in
this game for a long time, and

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if you want to complete everything,
you're looking at one hundred plus hours.

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So saying that anything is a focus
is a bit of a misnowhere because you

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can't really focus on anything other than
whatever you decide to do when you first

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turn the game on. In that
moment, little chunks of the story a

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side quest here, a discovery there, that's what you're focusing on. Obviously,

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when you get back to the main
story beats, you can talk about

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the main players like Ganad Orphan,
Lincoln Zell are there, but it's not

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really You can't really say that this
game is focused because it's so open,

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it's so much to do. At
least based on the reviews that I've been

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reading, Jordan Midler from VGC another
ten out of ten says the game reinterprets

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Breath of the Wild for the better. Instead of removing all the aches and

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pains of that game, it completes
the circle by adding gameplay based solutions to

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annoyances and encouraging you to let your
imagination run free. Easily one of the

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very best games on the Switch again, freedom, imagination. Words that are

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going to be coming up, but
big one here is not removing the aches

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and pains of the old game,
but completing the circle. So instead of

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taking away breakable weapons, they just
allowed you to make weapons out of anything.

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That was one of the coolest parts
of that one reveal from about a

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month ago, I would say maybe
a little more where they were creating bomb

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arrows on the fly or creating weapons
by sticking two items together right then and

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there. That I think is huge
for this game. I think it's going

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to be one of the biggest parts
of the entire game is seeing people experiment

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with different ways to take on enemies
using just what's around them. There's a

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very primal survival sort of feeling to
that that I imagine is a big part

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of what's making this game feel so
good for the folks that are playing it.

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I am very very excited to dig
into myself. But reading these ten

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out of ten reviews, I've definitely
given me some sparks on what I want

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to do when I first start.
Another one from inverse another ten out of

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ten. This is Hayes Madison.
The game is so much more than a

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sequel, total reimagining. There's that
wording in of what Nintendo did with Breath

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of the Wild in twenty seventeen.
There are still some minor quibbles like cooking

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and clumsy horse controls, but all
that pales in the face of the many,

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many things this game does write and
I do not like to hear about

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the clumsy horse controls. That was
a problem that I had in the last

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game. But there is a horse
related thing that I saw from kind of

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Funny on YouTube. They do those. They had a short from Blessing Blessing

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Junior who that's not his name,
is a Blessing Junior from Blessing who said

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that one of the coolest things about
this game is that he went to the

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stable in Tears of the Kingdom for
the first time and all of the horses

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that he had raised in the old
game were still there. So it takes

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the hole having to train a horse
thing right out of the equation. I

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love that that's one less tedious task
I have to do, allowing me to

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jump right back into exploration of the
entire world. Yes, please, that's

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fantastic. More of that, please, But yeah, I'm not excited to

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expect this to be completely without quibbles, but it sounds like if cooking and

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horse controls are it, I think
we're in a pretty good spot. Nintendo

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Life also ten out of ten,
a glorious triumphant sequels one of the best

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games of all time, unfiltered bliss
to lose yourself in for hundreds of hours.

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We can't wait to see what the
world will do with the game,

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and that, Yeah, that is
one thing that I am now that the

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game is out in the public.
I am excited to see again going to

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the experimentation of the weapons and stuff
like that, what players decide to do

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in this high fantasy sandbox essentially that
they've been given to build or to you

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know, the way they approach battles
or puzzles or things like that. I

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had already seen in some gameplay.
I think it was game spots gameplay.

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Actually, they built this massive like
flying raft with guns laser guns for lack

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of a better term, underneath it, and they flew it to a sky

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island with a bunch of enemies,
and and that raft took out most of

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them, and then he jumped down
and slashed the rest of them. It

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was very Star Wars esque, but
in Zelda and that that really piqued my

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interest. I am curious to see
what goes on there. So here's one

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that is not a perfect score.
It is nine point seven five out of

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ten from Game Informer. It might
as well be a perfect score from Kyle

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Hilliard, good fella friend of the
show. To Doc get the same goosebumps

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exploring High Rule as I did in
the past, but I did experience new

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emotions, both a granular level from
solving individual puzzles and on a larger scale

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by going back to one of my
favorite video game locations. They say you

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can never go home again, but
I adored returning to High Rule with all

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new tools that I can get behind
that. I imagine that's something I'm going

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to have to feel for myself once
I start my playthrough. But hearing that,

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you know, it still invokes those
sort of reactions or emotions after spending

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dozens of hours in the world in
the first game, and now coming back

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to spend dozens of hours more.
The fact that it's still can elicit those

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feelings out of players is very good. Games Radar with a four and a

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half out of five game builds on
what breadth of the Wild previously we've heard

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that already, and with a platform
like that to work on, the result

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can't help but be fantastic that with
the occasional hiccup and execution, the end

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result is a game as broad as
it is deep, and something that comfortably

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justifies the six year weight and then
the final one. Here you're a game

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or four out of five stars and
astonishing quite literally top the bottom se equal

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adding complexity and splendor to the formula
without sacrificing its enchantment. I wonder if

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Edwin Evans Thirwell is a magic the
Gathering player with a phrase like sacrificing the

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enchantment. But yeah, so,
Zelda, good y'all. I mean,

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if I could really sum this up
in three words, Zelda, good y'all,

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there are some caveats obviously, if
you did. If Beth of the

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Wild wasn't your jam this may not
be your jam either. There are still

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some things from the previous game that
annoyed people that are still here, like

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the weapons grading, the grading system, and the aforementioned horse controls and cooking

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and things like that. But it
sounds like these are minor squabbles or minors

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what is the word I'm looking for, minor complaints. Let's just say,

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in the grand scheme of the entire
game, and I'm thinking that even problems

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of before are lessened based on the
decisions that they made here, as described

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earlier in one of the other reviews. So yes, the media gaming media

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world was enamored with this one.
Reviews were absolutely bonkers. Ninety seven percent

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top critic average on the tiers of
the Open Critic four Tiers of the Kingdom.

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Not a surprise that it's reviewing well, but it is a surprise that

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it's reviewing this well, if that
makes sense. Moving, so, let's

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go to the top five on Open
Critic for twenty twenty three. So far,

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Tiers of the Kingdom takes the first
spot. Resideval four remake is second

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at ninety two, the surprise Hi
Fi Rush coming in and number three with

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an eighty nine Vernal Edge, which
is a console RPG, only has six

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reviews, but it's reviewing it in
eighty eight, so I wonder if just

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more people have to review that one
cassette Beasts, which came out of nowhere

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and is apparently phenomenal at eighty six, Theorism Final bar Line also at eighty

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six, Optopath Traveler two, eighty
five, Star Wars Jedi Survivor also eighty

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five, The Space for the Space
for the Unbound and excellent indie adventure title

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from Mokagin Studios at eighty five,
and then Hogwarts Legacy at eighty four.

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So I know I said top five, but that's actually the top ten so

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far for twenty twenty three as per
Open Critic. I'm not sure what's going

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to be able to get into that
list from here on out, but there

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are some heavy hitters coming in the
next six weeks between Diablo four and Street

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Fighter six and Final Fantasy sixteen,
Yes and Amnesia the Bunker for the low

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key horror fan or the for the
independent horror fans. There's a lot to

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like, a lot going on in
the next couple of weeks, but right

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now it's all Zelda, all the
time, and if you're planning on going

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to High Rule, it sounds like
based on critical reception, you will not

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be disappointed. Coming up after the
quick break, we will talk about Classic

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Zelda versus Modern Zelda, which your
your preferences might be, where you might

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sit on that spectrum, and where
I personally find myself in recent years being

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pulled when it comes to Nintendo's High
Fantasy franchise. Stick around all right,

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Welcome back to Chief Steaks and Controllers, Episode one thirty one. The High

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Rule episode just got done talking about
the reviews for Tiers of the Kingdom.

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I know I'll be tearing into High
Rule as soon as possible later today after

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downloads on my console and work is
done and all that good stuff. But

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I want to move on now to
an interesting conversation. Every time a new

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game comes out in this franchise,
I feel like a debate starts once again

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between Old Zelda versus New Zelda,
Modern Zelda versus Class Zelda. Where you

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fall in that time frame. And
there's an one review in particular that makes

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this apparent from Gfinity E Sports,
not a place you would expect your review

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for Zelda would come from, but
that does not mean that it's not worth

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it's merit. And this is the
lowest review that I've seen for Tiers of

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the Kingdom at six out of ten. And right here is an interesting paragraph

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about thirty to forty hours in Tiers
of the Kingdom looks to be a victim

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of Nintendo's obtuse marketing strategy, from
hearing next to nothing about the game to

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getting almost too much information in the
week's leading to release. The suddenly fast

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moving cloud of information was makes too
quickly into a pot already simmary with speculation

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reaching up a willing point that people
making concrete claims from veague assumptions. And

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then he gets into classic Zelda,
right, like what a classic Zelda is,

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and I want to I want to
kind of dig into what he says

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here. So it's I'm sad to
say that the legend of Zelda Tears the

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Kingdom just isn't worth the weight for
me personally. It takes too much from

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the one title in the series it
took me years to finish, and does

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too little to invigorate the classic Zelda
magic back into its reused world. So

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there it is. Classic Zella seems
to be a mantra that always appears,

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like I said, when a new
game is launched, But what does that

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mean anymore? Like obviously you could
say, you know, and he has

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Zelda. Well, okay, so
what's anys Zelda? It's a top down

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the venture title takes about forty five
minutes to an hour complete if you're talking

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Zelda two, because Zelda two is
a whole different animal, which a lot

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of people, if you recall,
panned as being not as good as the

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other ones linked to the past.
Okay, now we're talking. It builds

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on the first game. It you
know, puts in the new graphics,

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the new dungeon structures, things like
that, Okaine of Time that seemed this

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seems to be the lynchpin, right, Okarine of Time seems to be the

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the catalyst for this debate, if
you ask me, because that's where three

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D happened. That's where you know, a full fleshed out story happened.

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That's where the series really evolved from
you know what it was with a you

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know, it was a popular game, but I don't think it was as

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popular at least growing up to me, I didn't hear about it as much

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as I heard about Mario or even
like you know, Street Fighter two and

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stuff like that. Maybe that was
just my circle of friends but just weren't

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playing Zelda as much, right,
Okurative time change that okerative time put that

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thing squarely on the map for everyone
in my group at least. And then

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from there we never Backmador's Mask,
which I personally have never played, but

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I know enough about it, Twilight
Princess, which is for a long time

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once my favorite wind Waker, and
the list goes on. So we need

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to find then what people were talking
about when they're talking about classic versus modern

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Zelda, because that conversation has shifted, Right, there was a time going

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into Skywards Sword where people were yearning
for a change to the formula it did.

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It wasn't you know, modern classic
Zelda versus modern Zelda. It was

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formulaic Zelda versus open Zelda. Right, Starting with the karein of time,

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you had a couple of dungeons,
then a central point, then a couple

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more dungeons to gather items. As
you gained items, or as you gained

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weapons and tools in each dungeon,
you use that tool for the rest of

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the dungeon, and then you fought
a boss, and then you moved to

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the next dungeon. So it was
very structured formulaic in that regard. Part

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of what made Zelda great and the
original game was that you could go anywhere

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you wanted. You'd get your butt
kicked if you weren't ready in certain areas,

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but you could go wherever you wish
to go. Okareend of Time put

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that formulaic, linear esque linear ish
structure into it. It followed that through

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Majora and through Windwaker. Although Windwaker's
Ocean gave the presentation of an open world

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you could sail wherever you wanted,
but you could only advance the story in

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certain places. There wasn't as much. There was some discovery in Windwaker.

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It's a it's an interesting outlier,
but I don't think it was as fundamental

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to that feeling as people might think, at least not now. Then maybe,

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but not now and then Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, which has its

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own problems, and now hear Breath
of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.

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So between Skyward Sword and Breath of
the Wild, people wanted Zelda to

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get back to that classic Zelda field. So first it was, you know,

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get rid of the formula, and
then Skyward Sword came out and it

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was all right, now we need
something a little more open, we need

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something a little more free. Just
drop us in, let us adventure all

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that, and then Breath of the
Wild came out and now Tears of the

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Kingdom. People are asking for that
class Zelda. But what do they want.

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Do they want Links Awakening again where
it's it's like the remake in twenty

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nineteen, where it's that classic top
down not isommetric, but you know,

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screen to screen to screen sort of
movement. Do you want the three D

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Zelda format where it's story story,
a couple of dungeons, story story,

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more dungeon story, story end.
Do you want that structure back? What?

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Unfortunately, just saying classic Zelda,
you have to be more specific now

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because there are multiple Classic Zelda's.
In my opinion, I think they do

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a good job of catering to both
of those folks. At least they were

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with a link between worlds. And
then when Skywards sort of when that came

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out at the time, Skyward's Sword, Let's not Forget still has one of

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the highest highest regarded single dungeons in
any Zelda game ever. The motion controls

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were you know, poop and doing
things like dowsing were admittedly very dumb,

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but when it when it shined,
when it shown, it really shone.

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It was really really well designed in
certain places. Um Twilight Princess, same

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thing. I loved Twilight Princess for
a while. It was my favorite Zelda

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of all time, more than wind
Waker, more than Akarena, more than

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linked to the past, more than
all of them. I loved the the

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darkness to it right like the whole
Twilight realm, really appealed to me.

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The hero shade was very cool,
learning the moves of the hero from the

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hero. It's that it's himself even
though he was you know, dead.

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Story implications there were really really cool. I thought Midna probably the best sidekick

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of any of the sidekicks that they
employed. Navi was annoying. Fee or

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five whatever her name is was fine
at least meant more to the overarching Zeldas

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story. But still I think Midna's
attitude and midness personality kind of pushed her

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over the edge for me. Robably
protested a lot for me as far as

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what I wanted in games at the
time. So that that was always a

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favorite of mine, probably my favorite
of that structure of that era of Zelda.

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But but now now I think we're
in best Zelda mode, right.

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Best Breath of the Wild was the
six year old me or ten year old

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me imagined in my head as I
was playing Linked to the Past. Is

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what Breath of the Wild ended up
being. Yeah, and it sounds like

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Tears of the Kingdom was just going
to expand on that. There's your modern

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Zelda, modern Zelda. There is
no debate. It's Breath of the Wild.

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It's probably Tears of the Kingdom at
some point, as more people play

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it, they still you know,
they modernized some class Exelda in that time.

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I mentioned Links Awakening, I mentioned
Link between Worlds, which was essentially

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a sequel to Link to the Past. So there has been some modernization of

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the classic formula. But I think
now there is a clear divide from where

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modern is. I think modern Zelda
is clearly defined as Breath of the Wild

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and Tears of the Kingdom. But
after that, class Axelda gets a little

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hazy and you need to be a
little more specific. Can't just say I

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want class Exelda again, because that
could mean any one of a multitude of

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things. It's kind of like how
as a pro wrestling fan, the first

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thing I think of is when a
promotion, a new promotion, says they

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want to get back to the roots
of professional wrestling. We want to take

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professional wrestling back to its roots.
Unfortunately, that is a format that always

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progresses, and when you try and
go back to the roots of wrestling,

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you end up making a subpar product, an inferior product. There's a great

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Brian Zane wrestling with regret, great
wrestling YouTube, are not sure if you've

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ever watched it. He talks about
this in his review of the AWF,

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a shortlift promotion from the mid nineties
that talks about getting back to the roots

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of pro wrestling with a round system
where instead of you know, it was

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just one match, which is a
bunch of different rounds over and over again,

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and how ultimately that promise of going
back to its roots didn't work.

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I find some similarities in that to
video game discourse in general, when they

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talk about classic versus modern there is
a way to bring good retro gameplay to

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the current scene. I think Yacht
Club Games is a perfect example of being

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00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.160
able to do that. Between Shovel
Night and the upcoming Mina The Hollower.

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But taking a franchise back to what
made it so good in the first place

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is difficult because a lot of that
is steeped in nostalgia, right. A

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lot of what made those games very
good is that you were a kid playing

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them. They do those experiences translate
as well when you're an adult, or

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should they try and modernize them to
now so that you can have those same

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feelings you had when you were a
kid as an adult. That is the

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line that developers have to tight rope
tight walk, tight rope walk as they

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are making games for the first time, sorry, as they're designing a new

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game for the first time. I
should say in a franchise, I'm fine

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with something like Tears of the Kingdom. Keep building, making things more modern.

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Eventually you're gonna get to a point
where it's too big, and then

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players will have what I call a
paralysis of decision. They'll turn on a

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00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.480
game, they'll have fifty million things
on their map to do. They'll decide,

350
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:07.640
screw it, I'm not doing any
of these. They'll walk around for

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00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.039
an hour and then turn the game
off. That's what I call playing a

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00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.160
Ubisoft game in this day and age. But with Zelda, I don't think

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there's ever going back to classic Zelda. You're gonna have a classic esque,

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You're gonna have a modernized classic,
let's call it. But you're never going

355
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to be able to go back to
the feelings that Link to the Past engendered.

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You're never gonna be able to go
back to the first time you turn

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00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.440
on Anchoreen of Time. That's never
going to happen. You're going to have

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the first time you turn on a
modern Zelda and how that makes you feel.

359
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But it's not going to be the
same similar, maybe, but it's

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not going to be the same as
what classic Zelda made you feel like.

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So I think the whole, ultimately, the whole classic versus modern Zelda debate

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is pointless, right, I mean, if you want to class Ezelta format,

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that's fine, but it's going to
be a modern version of it.

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If you're if you're pining for to
the past, so bad, just go

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00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:06.759
play Link to the Past. Right. Zelda needs to modernize, and in

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00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:08.799
Tears of the Kingdom it sounds that
they've done that by building on the last

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00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:12.880
time they modernized in Breadth of the
Wild, moral combat. It sounds like

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00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:18.400
it's going to do that by rebooting
the franchise again after rebooting it in two

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00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.000
thousand and nine, not fifteen years
later. At least it seems like it.

370
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I could be wrong, but based
on their marketing, with the clock

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00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.839
that hits nine ten, eleven skips
twelve goes to one, sounds like they're

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00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:30.759
rebooting again or at least going back
to the time of the Great Kongoloo.

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That is the challenge a game developer, a game designer. Chasing that feeling

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of classic, you know, childhood
favorite games is a fool's errand it's a

375
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:52.319
fallacy. It's never going to happen. You need to make a game in

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00:29:52.440 --> 00:30:00.559
that with that name on it that
engenders modern feelings of you know, love

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00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.880
and nostalgia and things like that.
You're never going to get back to where

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you were, That's impossible. This
is the industry that only moves forward.

379
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.359
Even when it seems retro, it's
still moving forward because a game like Shovel

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Night, yes it looks like classic
Mega man, you know, two D

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00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.480
platforming, but there's a lot under
that hood that give it more depth.

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00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:29.680
I just think that pining for the
days of classic games ultimately will leave you

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00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:34.799
more disappointed than just trying to appreciate
the modern stuff that's here now. But

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00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.599
that's me. I could be wrong
at Big Finale on Twitter, tell me

385
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:45.279
I'm wrong. I'm open to the
debate. I am not closed minded on

386
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.880
this. I would like to hear
your feelings on that. But after the

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00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:53.440
break, we're going to get into
the best way to enter Zelde. If

388
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.039
you've ever played Zelda game before and
you're wondering what the hype is all about,

389
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:03.519
what would I suggest to be the
starting point for a new person coming

390
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.839
into the franchise for the first time. And I'll just say right now,

391
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:11.920
spoiler alert, it is not want
of Gamelon on CDI you can be safe

392
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:18.119
in that knowledge. Stick around,
all right, Welcome back to Chiefs Takes

393
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.759
the Choler's episode number one thirty one, zooming right along here to the final

394
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:26.119
segment of the show, and we've
been talking about the new Zelda. We've

395
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.240
been talking about classic versus modern,
But now we're going to talk about a

396
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:36.079
good entry point. What is the
best entry point for someone who is brand

397
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.319
new to the Zelda franchise, has
never played the game before, but wants

398
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:41.240
to get into it, wants to
see what this whole Zelda things old event

399
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.759
wants with this guy run them around
as green pajamas, and you know,

400
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.559
figure out maybe which game they don't
want to play in the franchise for the

401
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.079
first time. I have a couple
of ideas of where to start, and

402
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:56.960
it would depend, honestly on that
birth particular tastes. If they don't mind

403
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:01.519
they're an older game, right,
if they're like my age, mid thirties,

404
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.799
potentially older. I almost said late
thirties. I am not late thirties

405
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:10.319
yet, don't you put that on
me. If they're around my age or

406
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.359
older and they've been playing for a
very long time and they've played old retro

407
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:19.279
style games, just didn't put Zelda
on their radar. Maybe they were a

408
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.119
PC player, or maybe they were
more into platforms when they were a kid,

409
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:28.000
or like me, when they were
first growing up, they were more

410
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.079
into Mario and Punch Out, Street
Fighter and stuff like that, and didn't

411
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:35.240
really get into the adventure stuff until
later. I would be comfortable saying the

412
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:39.440
first Zelda or linked the past right
for that kind of person who has retro

413
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:45.039
style gaming under their belt. In
some regard, I would go back and

414
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:46.799
say, go back and play the
first one. It's forty five to fifty

415
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:51.160
minutes. Go in and do it, and enjoy it and love it,

416
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:55.079
and then you'll understand. Maximilian Dude, one of the best fighting game YouTubers

417
00:32:55.160 --> 00:33:00.759
on the planet, recently played the
first Zelda for the first time on his

418
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:02.680
channel. That was exactly what I'm
talking about. The kind of reactions he

419
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:07.880
was getting being a gamer for as
long as he has been is what I

420
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:10.880
imagine someone else in his position would
do. So if they're an older an

421
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.440
older fellow or less who has been
playing games for a long times like me,

422
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:20.880
then I would say, you know
Zelda one or linked to the past

423
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.839
Zelda two. I would not say
first, I would tell them to play

424
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:31.039
it, but just to get the
feel for how the franchise has iterated in

425
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:37.079
the past. I would definitely not
start them with the Adventures of Link,

426
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:42.160
just because that is a major barrier
and they would get the wrong impression of

427
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.680
what the entire franchise is if they
started with the first NPC you can talk

428
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.359
to or one of the first saying
I am error. I just don't think

429
00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:54.799
that would work out for them very
well. So I would not start them

430
00:33:54.799 --> 00:34:00.680
with Adventures of Link. But if
they're a little younger, right, if

431
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:09.440
they're let's say mid to early twenties
and they started playing around PS two GameCube

432
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:15.800
era something like that, then I
would say something like Win Waker, Twilight

433
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:22.360
Princess, maybe Akarina of Time three
D. Specifically, I feel like Okarina

434
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:28.800
of Time for sixty four, as
great as it was at the time,

435
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:37.559
visually has not aged as well as
other Zelda titles, So if you didn't

436
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:43.239
play it, then you may not
get as much out of it as it

437
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:46.800
pertains to the wonder of being in
that world, if that makes sense.

438
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.840
So if I'm going to introduce someone
to the three D style of Zelda,

439
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:54.519
I'd go a little further in the
timeline. Have them play Win Waker,

440
00:34:54.760 --> 00:35:01.480
have them play Twilight Princess, get
them accustomed to the format, and then

441
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:07.880
say, Okay, go back and
play Aquareine of Time. They're not going

442
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:10.199
to appreciate it as much as we
did when it first launched, but I

443
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:15.199
think that's just the cost of not
playing it until now. Whether they weren't

444
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:19.480
old enough to play it then or
weren't interested then in it, then I

445
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:27.159
think that's the issue because while gameplay
it's you know, it's where it's one

446
00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:32.559
of the main reasons Zelda is where
it is today. Look, visuals graphics

447
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:40.039
were only revolutionary at the time,
and they have not aged well okerate of

448
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:44.920
time. Three D does a good
job of bringing it into a more modern

449
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.280
look if they have a three DS
or access to a three DS, But

450
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:54.199
if they don't, Win Waker with
its timeless cartoonish style or Twilight Princess,

451
00:35:54.280 --> 00:36:04.519
which also you know isn't comparable to
today either but also is not as blocky

452
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:09.000
let's say polygonal as N sixty four
was, would be a good start as

453
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:15.559
well. Younger than that, like
high schooler, middle schooler, I may

454
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:22.519
stick with wind Waker or Twilight Princess. Maybe move into Skyward Sword with motion

455
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:30.079
controls as much as they think Skyward
Sword HD on switch is a good bridge

456
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:34.840
there, as it kind of lessens
the whole dependence on motion controls, still

457
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.320
uses them to a point, but
not as much. That might be a

458
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:44.360
good gateway into that game, but
I would probably still say wind Waker or

459
00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:49.719
Twilight Princess for like a teenager for
the same reasons that I say it for

460
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:53.960
the mid to early twenties, and
I guess late twenties, like all of

461
00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:00.800
twenties, I guess, just because
I don't know that operend of Time or

462
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:06.679
Major's Mask kind of translates as well. And Skyward Sword did things so wildly

463
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:14.559
differently as far as like dependence on
motion controls and dungeon structures and storyline and

464
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:16.880
stuff like that. It's easy to
say Skyward Sword because it's the first one

465
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:23.719
on the timeline, but I feel
like to get that Zelda feel Twilight Princess

466
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:29.119
or Windwaker would be the best choices
to start. And then for the younger

467
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.000
folks, I would say Breath of
the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom,

468
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:38.679
just because of how much you can
do in these games. Like my daughter

469
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:45.320
live at the age of one,
was able to run around Breath of the

470
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:50.119
Wild and you know, look around, jump on stuff, shoot all of

471
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:55.159
my shock arrows into the sky somehow, just tinker around. It's very much

472
00:37:55.239 --> 00:38:00.360
super Mario Odyssey in that regard,
where you can have someone with high gills

473
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:02.400
who's doing all the things you need
to do and getting all the items and

474
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:06.960
stuff like that, or you can
have a young kid who's just mucking around

475
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.480
in a world jumping on things and
seeing what works and what doesn't, and

476
00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:14.559
I think the Breath of the Wild
Tears the Kingdom are the best for that.

477
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:20.400
So ultimately, the answer to what
is the best entry point for the

478
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:23.079
Zelda series, in my opinion,
is how old you are? Depending on

479
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:25.719
how old you are, how old
the person that we're talking to is.

480
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:30.960
There is no one clear this is
the Zelda you need to start with.

481
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:38.239
It is not a binary question,
for lack of a better term. There

482
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:44.480
are multiple answers here depending on the
age and experience of the person who's asking

483
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:45.400
the question. Now, are you're
going to find a lot of people who

484
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:50.000
have never played the Zelo game before. No. I imagine that there are

485
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:55.480
plenty of gamers who have played at
least one, But I don't think that

486
00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.480
it's as ubiquitous as some people make
it seem. I feel like if you're

487
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:05.320
going to introduce the franchise for the
first time, you need to be careful

488
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:07.639
in how you do it, because
it's if you take someone who is,

489
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:14.760
you know, a gamer for thirty
plus years, maybe they played elden Ring

490
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:16.480
and they loved it, and you
throw them right into Breath of the Wild

491
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:20.079
they're going to say this, I
mean, didn't I do this in Elden

492
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.679
Ring, Right, So you want
to take them back to the retro era,

493
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:27.760
let them see how it started and
build them from there. Someone who

494
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:30.400
is younger, like high school age
or just out of a college age,

495
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:36.679
they may think they may not be
ready to go back to retro if they

496
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:40.079
were even into retro at all,
and they may not be interested in a

497
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:44.320
full on, hundred hour open world, do whatever you want sort of games.

498
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.039
You have to find that middle ground
in a place like Windwaker or Twilight

499
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:52.079
Princess or something of that. Ilk
Link between worlds on three D s would

500
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:55.639
be a good option too, if
they wanted to try something that was retro

501
00:39:55.719 --> 00:40:00.559
with a more modern feel. Okarina
of Time three DS. Same thing.

502
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:05.480
But a lot of people may say
operative Time as the first one, and

503
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:12.360
I just don't know that that's going
to do what the person requests. The

504
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.519
person suggesting it would want it to
do, right. They say that because

505
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:17.199
it's the most popular Zelda game or
the most famous Zelda game, or what

506
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:23.679
have you. But ultimately that is
a tough nut to crack now thanks to

507
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:37.400
its limited visual identity and to the
now sort of rudimentary dungeon designs. Back

508
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.199
then they were great, but now
they're they're just kind of there right ocherative

509
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:44.840
time. As much as I love
it does not age as well as some

510
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:46.480
people would like it too. I
know that's a hard pill to swallow,

511
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:52.719
but it just doesn't. It's it's
it's it's not. It's a fundamental part

512
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:57.440
of the industry now. It's a
fundamental building block to where we are now.

513
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:04.039
But it is one that definitely has
as its cracks and one that shows

514
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:10.719
its age more than other timeless classics
if you ask me. It's not to

515
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:14.239
say it's not a great game.
It is one of my favorites of all

516
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.159
time and will remain and will remain
so it will definitely be one of the

517
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:21.800
highest regarded games I ever play.
But I have to be honest with myself.

518
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:27.320
It's not perfect. It's definitely not
perfect now, and there are better

519
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.960
games in the franchise to be that
first one. I would recommend anyone getting

520
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:35.559
into the franchise to play it eventually, but I wouldn't lead with it.

521
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:39.840
Whether they're you know, a brand
new, like ten year old kid playing

522
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:44.079
games for the first time, or
they've been playing games for thirty years like

523
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:49.280
I have. I wouldn't lead with
Akarreina of Time, and some people might

524
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.760
find that controversial, but I just
don't think it would be a good first

525
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.800
Zello game for people. I think
there are better options. And I also

526
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:00.280
think that the question is completely dependent
on who's talking to you. Is it

527
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.840
a veteran of gaming who's been playing
for thirty years and just didn't have a

528
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:07.519
Nintendo or what have you, or
is it someone brand new to gaming who's

529
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:09.519
playing a game for the first time. That's how you have to approach these

530
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:13.519
things. You can't just pick this
is the Zelda you should start with.

531
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:19.079
That's another fallacy. It's another fool's
errand you have to ask the questions and

532
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:22.440
then come to a logical conclusion that
makes the most sense. But as I

533
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:27.719
said before the break, that question
will never be answered with the words wand

534
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:34.639
of Gamelon or Zelda's Adventure because the
CDI Zelda's we can all agree our total

535
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.440
poop, but they are good for
some jokes. Excuse me, princess.

536
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:43.039
And with that we were at the
end of episode number one thirty one of

537
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.760
Chief Steaks and Controllers, presented by
Fox PHL, The Gambler one or two

538
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.400
point five FM, fourteen eighty AM, and iHeartRadio. If you're listening to

539
00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:53.360
these words at the end of this
episode, you have reached the final moments.

540
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:58.440
And as always, I appreciate that
you are here listening to these That

541
00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:01.800
means you were entertained and educated enough
to stick around for forty five plus minutes

542
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:06.239
and listen to me talk about a
guy in green pajamas who runs around try

543
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.719
and save a princess and has been
doing so for nearly thirty five years now.

544
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:15.559
Thank you as always for your support
and your patients. I apologize for

545
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.559
the brief hiatus I took at the
end of April in the beginning of May,

546
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:21.360
but I am back now and I'll
be running all the way up to

547
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.920
Summer Games Fest. When I do
go out to Los Angeles to check out

548
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:29.400
play days, I will be in
attendance for Jeff Keeley Summer Game Fest Live

549
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:32.800
YouTube Theater in Los Angeles. I
will be there as well, just hanging

550
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:37.679
out and I will be seeing some
stuff and some things while I am out

551
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:40.559
there with a full report the week
I come back for sure, and hopefully

552
00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:44.519
maybe some interviews I can talk with
some folks and let you listen to their

553
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:50.159
voices about the things that we are
playing on the floor at sg F.

554
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:53.920
But with that, I am Jason
Finelli. This is Chief sixty and Scholler's

555
00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:00.360
podcast. As always, I hope
you have a fantastic weekend. I hope

556
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.400
you have an even better week were
right behind it, and we will be

557
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:07.519
back next time with more of the
latest and greatest from video games. Here

558
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.559
on Cheese, Steaks and Controllers bout
hour