WEBVTT

1
00:00:12.439 --> 00:01:15.719
The the the the build the the
built, the the the the the the

2
00:01:15.400 --> 00:02:59.919
the the the the the the the
the the the the the the the the

3
00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:47.439
the the the the the the the
the the the the the the the the

4
00:02:50.719 --> 00:03:36.479
the the do all right, Welcome
everybody. We'll be diving into the text,

5
00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:43.840
going through the highlights. I read
it earlier today, pretty much I

6
00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:46.759
guess what I expected it to be. I also want to play some clips

7
00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:52.400
from Tim. I think Tim dealt
with it in a very honest way.

8
00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:55.120
He gave a shout out to me
as well, so I appreciate that.

9
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.919
I guess one good thing coming out
of all the is that at least people

10
00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:10.960
who are a little more sane and
able to control themselves, or at least

11
00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:17.360
better understanding the other side positions.
So even though I know that Tim is

12
00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:24.680
not fully on board with us,
we're at least getting I think, better

13
00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:33.560
understandings. I noticed that he seemed
to understand that the first Millennium Church was

14
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:44.399
not governed in this sort of autocratic
immediacy that Vatican One claims. So I'm

15
00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.920
just gonna play a few clips of
him talking about it, and then we're

16
00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.040
going to dive into the documents.
I thought This was an interesting point here

17
00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:56.680
where Tim says this, I,
however, have long and this is more

18
00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.360
a JP two thing than a Francis
thing. I have a long. We

19
00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:06.000
must, as a matter of being
intellectually honest, see that there is a

20
00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:12.720
grossly, vastly different conception of papal
authority. I don't even know if you

21
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.000
can call it. You can call
it papal primacy in the first Christian millennium,

22
00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.000
then there was in the Second Christian
millennium. And the proof of this

23
00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:28.319
is that the Eastern Orthodox did not
go into schism until the beginning of the

24
00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:31.079
Second Christian millennium. And I mean, you can prove it a million other

25
00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.600
ways. That's that's the most ready
and that's actually correct. And that's because

26
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:43.439
of the eleventh century or Groan Gregorian
reforms. And as we know from the

27
00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.480
Mayandorf Papadacus book, as well as
the other texts that have recently come out

28
00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:53.160
with Sharshchensky book, and also from
Roman Catholic scholars as well the Kongar book.

29
00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:59.519
After nine hundred years, the Dvornic
book Phocin schism, we get a

30
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:05.199
much better insight into the role of
the forgeries, the role of the tatas

31
00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:11.759
Pape, the role of the notion
of the temporal supremacy by the time of

32
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:16.480
when I'm Sanctum of Boniface the eighth, and that there's clearly a pretty radical,

33
00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:25.839
almost you could say revolution in the
West on the part of the papacy

34
00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:28.720
in terms of how it understands itself
and how it relates to the rest of

35
00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:33.560
the church. And so these are
actually really great admissions. So I'm really

36
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:40.160
happy to see the other side understanding
that, you know, we're not just

37
00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.879
making these things up. This is
actually in the literature, and it's not

38
00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.040
just this new document. Really,
this document follows on a trail of documents

39
00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:55.600
which we've been talking about for a
long time, because there's multiple purposes for

40
00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:00.000
this document. Ultimately, this document, as Tim notes in his time,

41
00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:03.879
as I've been saying for many actually
many years, there's a plan to push

42
00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:11.600
for a twenty twenty five reunion between
the Patriarch of Constantinople and whoever decides to

43
00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.879
decide with him and the Roman bishop. In order to do that, we

44
00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:19.240
need the series of documents like the
Chi eighty document here from twenty sixteen.

45
00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:25.079
There's others as well. There's a
Ravina. There's various working groups that the

46
00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:29.720
new Document references. These are all
key texts, and I've read these.

47
00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.959
I haven't read a couple of the
ones that the New Document sites that were

48
00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:40.639
older. But really the strongest of
all these is the Alexandria Document. And

49
00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:47.879
Alexandria admits pretty much most of our
positions and our critiques. And I think

50
00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:53.399
you know what we called out when
Alexandria came out last year, when we

51
00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:58.839
did multiple podcasts myself, Snack,
David Arhun, We kind of called out

52
00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:03.199
the question logical step of the question, which would be, okay, well,

53
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.839
if this is the case, then
the hurdle will be Vatican One.

54
00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:13.319
And it's fascinating to me that the
new document really kind of takes that up

55
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:20.600
as its focus. How can we
revise, reword and reinterpret Vatican One?

56
00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:26.279
And that's a kids, you not, that's literally the proposal of the document.

57
00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:33.399
So on the one hand, I
believe there's a geopolitical end goal here

58
00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.120
in this text. It is the
reunion that we've been talking about for so

59
00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.919
many years. You can go back
to the podcast I was doing six seven,

60
00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.840
eight years ago about this topic where
I said they were going to try

61
00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:46.799
to plan an Accuminus reunion. Next
year, of course is the reunion of

62
00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.759
the Council, and I see up
that's precisely why they want to do it.

63
00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.559
And there were some really good articles
up on an Orthodox website from the

64
00:08:54.639 --> 00:09:00.600
last few years detailing this plan as
well Orthodox Union Orthodox journalists. I think

65
00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.200
they got rated because they were based
in Ukraine, so I'm not even sure

66
00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:09.399
if their site is up and available
anymore, but they had multiple really well

67
00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:16.240
written articles kind of detailing the geopolitical
plans of the reunion. Separate from that

68
00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:22.720
website, I had heard this from
some pretty high level sources and whispers of

69
00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.879
people that I know who we're talking
about this, so I have kind of

70
00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.639
multiple confirmations as to why I thought
this was coming, and of course here

71
00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:35.600
we are. So on the one
hand, there's the geopolitical sort of subversion

72
00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:41.720
element of it. However, what's
surprising is a lot of the honesty in

73
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:46.919
these documents. It's really kind of
astounding the level to which they're conceding things.

74
00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:52.080
I would have never dreamed the concessions
would be at this level. Now,

75
00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:54.759
when I say that, a lot
of people didn't think I'm saying that

76
00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.120
Okay, now it's time to get
reunion with Rome. No problem is that

77
00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:05.279
it's not ultimately about true theology.
These are again ultimately, unfortunately motivated by

78
00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:11.759
geopolitical reasons. And we know that
that's because the West is really behind the

79
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:15.559
power structure in the West, the
power block of the Atlantis power Atlanti's power

80
00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.919
block. They have been behind a
humanism from the get go at the turn

81
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.600
of the last century, and it's
a project that they put tremendous amounts of

82
00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:31.240
money and power and influence into to
really turn these churches into forms of American

83
00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.080
soft power, and we saw the
height of that at the Cold War.

84
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:39.039
Of course, the most important there's
many books that deal with this from an

85
00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.240
academic standpoint, the most important which
is of course the David Wimhoff book about

86
00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:48.919
Time Life magazine, and John Courtney
Murray and Vatican Two, but even mainline

87
00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.039
intelligence books cover this as well.
Anyway, that's not the topic today.

88
00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:56.519
That's just kind of vindicating the point
that we've been saying. Tim actually gives

89
00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:58.720
us some props for that, because
I told him this like a year and

90
00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:05.399
a half ago. Now, what
does this mean. Well, setting aside

91
00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.480
of the geopolitical stuff, even I'm
kind of surprised at the amount of admissions

92
00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:18.080
here, and it's an I guess
they felt like this was really the only

93
00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.279
way to do it, because if
we're going to have all these admissions,

94
00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.519
then the next logical step, as
we said, would be that we'd have

95
00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.000
to explain Vatican One, and that
really becomes the locus of the debate of

96
00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:37.919
this of this paper. A large
portion of the paper is devoted to again

97
00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:43.039
a revisionist understanding a Vatican One of
reinterpreting it. Now before we get into

98
00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.600
that, a lot of the Trads
and a lot of the Roman Catholics are

99
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:52.759
clapping back as usual as we can
always assume. Debating the status of this

100
00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:58.279
document, we don't care literally has
nothing to do with the main point,

101
00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:03.600
which is that the concessions and the
admissions in Alexandria Chi eighty and the new

102
00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:09.639
Document have nothing to do with whether
the documents are considered magisterial or infallible,

103
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:16.120
because if they're papally approved, and
they are, then this is essentially Francis

104
00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:22.519
admitting to the historical contradiction, which
is our key point with Vatican One.

105
00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:28.039
In other words, Francis is essentially
admitting via the approval of these documents and

106
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:33.480
their admissions, because remember the new
document reaffirms both Chiaty and Alexandria in many

107
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:41.840
many places. Then essentially we're having
another admission now fully from the Pope himself,

108
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:50.600
that the Vatican One attitude, mindset, approach, et cetera wasn't what

109
00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.960
was going on in the first thousand
years. It's a development and as Tim

110
00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.639
notes here in a second to his
credit, if it can develop in the

111
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.000
second millennium, there's no reason why
it can't develop in the third millennium.

112
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:09.279
And that's precisely the route that they're
taking, a new developmental papacy for the

113
00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:15.720
third millennium, developing into a situation
where there's what they call reciprocity between the

114
00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:20.320
premissy of the Roman bishop for his
sphere and the premacy of the rest of

115
00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.360
the patriarchs and bishops in their sphere. So there's this reciprocity which is supposedly

116
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:31.120
intended to quote balance out the claims
of Vatican One. Well, that's another

117
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:37.360
kind of walking back. So we
have these admissions essentially that Vatican One claims

118
00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:45.639
things like direct universal jurisdiction from Jesus
to Peter and the document actually says that

119
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.879
you don't have to read it that
way. Well, guess what, how

120
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.679
does Vatican one read it? Let's
read Vatican one, because I think we're

121
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.639
going to start with the most glaring
of the problems. I think this one

122
00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:58.519
is one of the strongest that I
saw in the document. There's many places

123
00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:05.519
that are pretty pretty wild, But
let's read Vatican one first. On the

124
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.080
institution of the absolute premacy in Peter, we teach and declare that, according

125
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:15.240
to the gospel evidence, the primacy
of jurisdiction over the entire Church was immediate

126
00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:20.679
and direct upon the apostle Peter by
Jesus himself. It was made to him

127
00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:28.279
alone, to whom the Lord called
Cephas, and based on his confession you

128
00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.279
were the Christis, son of God, he said to blessed are you,

129
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:35.720
Simon Barjona. Thus it was conferred. That's directly from Vatican one. What

130
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:41.559
does the new document say, as
this is one of the ecumenical statements has

131
00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:48.679
noted the direct divine jurisdiction need not
be taken to imply that the universal premiscy

132
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:54.799
as a permanent institution was directly founded
by Jesus during his life on earth.

133
00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:00.039
To Peter. Nor does this term
mean that the Universal Primate is the the

134
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.399
source of the Church, as if
the Church's salvation had to be channeled through

135
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.679
him directly, the opposite of what
Unum Sanctam says, where it says very

136
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.440
clearly that to be saved you must
be in communion with the Roman Bishop.

137
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:16.240
Of course, Cantate Domino repeats that
same idea at the Council of Florence.

138
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:24.440
Rather, he is the sign of
the visible quinnania communion that God wills for

139
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:28.039
the Church, and the instrument through
which unity and diversity is realized. It

140
00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.679
is a universal Primate, thus envisaged
within a collegiality of the bishops and the

141
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:41.559
quinnanea of the whole church, that
the qualification of divine the jure divino from

142
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:46.480
divine law can be applied. Now
that's quoting one of these ecumenical statements.

143
00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.799
So the Roman Catholics are going to
say, well, that doesn't mean they

144
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.519
accept that they're just quoting the objection. While the nineteen ninety one Roman Catholic

145
00:15:54.600 --> 00:16:04.120
response to this expressed reservations about this
understanding, the CDF Congregation for the Doctrine

146
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.960
of the Faith, that's the successor
to the Holy Office of the Inquisition,

147
00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:23.480
if you don't know, used similar
formulation in nineteen ninety eight by saying the

148
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:30.080
episcopacy and the premiscy are reciprocal to
one another and related inseparably as a divine

149
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:37.159
or are of divine institution. So, in other words, the initial first

150
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:41.919
statement that stuck out to me was
that, because, as I noted here,

151
00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.399
the document explicitly says that the claim
of Vatican one can be read in

152
00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:53.679
a way that thus contradicts Vatican One, the status of this document the new

153
00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:59.039
document is irrelevant because it means that
the Pope is once again affirming a document

154
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:06.039
that contradict what the actual text Aboutican
One. Say that that's the contradiction,

155
00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.960
not whether the document itself is dogmatic. So any Roman Catholic deflecting to the

156
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:15.079
magisterial status of this document is distracting
from the obvious Francis is contradicting his own

157
00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:19.119
church is teaching it Vatican one,
not just by this text, but by

158
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:26.640
allowing a revision and new reading and
rewording. Those are the terminologies that are

159
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:33.279
used in the new document. Keep
in mind that Pious the tense pacindi dominici

160
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:38.680
Grazias, the famous and cyclical of
the last Sainted Pope Pius the tenth.

161
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.880
If you're a trad I know they
think John Paul the seconds. So whatever

162
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:51.400
it actually says that you cannot,
in the light of new historical evidences revise

163
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:57.519
and reinterpret dogma. Lamentabiley is another
document that condemns many propositions. Also,

164
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:03.799
Lamentabiley said the same thing as Pachndy, that you cannot use the modernist idea

165
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:11.160
of new historical evolving revisions to alter
the understanding of the dogmas contrary to the

166
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:15.839
way they were understood at the time. So the very approach of the document

167
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:22.880
itself is a contradiction to Patchendy and
to Lamentabili, because it condemns this modernist

168
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.200
approach of we could just reread it, reword it, bro got a problem,

169
00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:30.400
reinterpreted the way that works for you. Man. This is the trick

170
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:37.640
of ecumenism, making it all so
ambiguous and dubious that it can be understood

171
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:48.839
and reinterpreted however you want. That's
helped bureaucracies and propaganda work. You put

172
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:53.519
out general statements. And the iron
here is of course, that this whole

173
00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:59.119
system is supposed to not be general. The whole point of a dogma is

174
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.359
to clarify it was unclear. But
what happens in the Romancaloic system inevitably is

175
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:08.119
that the dogmas then require another interpretation. We need Bishop Gasser's official interpretation of

176
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.160
Vatican one. Wait a minute,
I thought Vatican one was the official dogmatic

177
00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:17.160
statement. Why do we need a
fallible interpretation of the infallible? Oh,

178
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:22.680
well, it turns out there's also
another document that was received by pious as

179
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:27.480
well about the German bishop's questions of
Vatican one. In terms of this document

180
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:32.039
brings us up. Oh, that's
the official interpretation. I thought it was

181
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.160
Gasser. No, it's Bishop Gasser
and the fallible statement of a later pope

182
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.440
about Vatican one. Those are the
official interpretations. So you see this as

183
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:45.319
a never ending, recursive, recursive
spiral of where the thing that was supposed

184
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:53.599
to be the thing that settles it
now gets reinterpreted and reworded and revised to

185
00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:57.160
eventually turn into whatever you need it
to be. This is the old bureaucratic

186
00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:07.400
trick. This is what they've been
doing forever. Vatican and the whole point

187
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.319
of the document. Let's keep this
in mind because somebody was saying, oh,

188
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.559
well, this is just like a
collection of debate Bros arguments. So

189
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.440
basically the Vatican just wanted to publish
a collection of arguments. No, that's

190
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.039
not with the purpose of the document. The purpose of this document is to

191
00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:30.319
analyze the critiques and figure out a
new way to reword and reread Vatican One.

192
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.200
And it says that multiple times.
So it's almost like, I want,

193
00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:38.079
like, do people not read the
actual document, because the purpose of

194
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:44.079
the document is not collecting debate bro
arguments for just no reason at all.

195
00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:48.880
The whole purpose is acumenism. The
last section of the document is new acuminous

196
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.759
approaches to the papacy, which worked
for all the other groups. That's the

197
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.119
whole point of Obviously, that's the
point of the document. So we're dealing

198
00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.440
with a bunch of lawyers and a
bunch of people who literally want to pretend

199
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:07.039
that that's not the purpose of the
document. And the document doesn't even count

200
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.720
because hand wave, it's not infallible. You notice every time we ask these

201
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.640
people for the infallible list of the
infallible dogmas, they don't know there isn't

202
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.440
one. Oh okay, so who
decides, Oh, well, you have

203
00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:23.960
these general generic criteria, and you
must sift through the giant ten thousand pages

204
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.359
of PayPal Ecumenical Council statements. Hopefully
you put them in the right bins.

205
00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:33.400
Yeah, so exactly, so the
system doesn't actually give you the thing that

206
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:37.319
it promises. All right, So
let's get into the document and well,

207
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:41.920
actually I want to read. Listen
this one other quote from Tim here the

208
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:51.880
hand means of demonstrating the point and
if there can be an organic growth or

209
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:57.240
whatever you whatever have you between papal
primacy in the first Christian millennium, in

210
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:07.079
the second, then conceivably in the
beginning of the third, if you get

211
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:15.359
change embracing popes like JP two,
very change embracing, much more liberal than

212
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.240
I think a lot of youth.
Absolutely true, Absolutely, Francis or even

213
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:23.400
Benedict, Benedict even repeated. I
mean, he's the one that, as

214
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:32.119
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger signed unam seen.
He's the one that signed the Justification Document

215
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.400
with the Lutherans around the same time
of the year, for those that don't

216
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:41.160
know. Around that time there was
the Joint Statement between Catholics and the Lutherans

217
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.720
about justification which is a notorious,
scandalous, a humanist document because it essentially

218
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:52.000
tries to make Luther's doctrine somehow acceptable, when, of course we all know

219
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.640
that Pope Leo at the time totally
condemned and excommunity excommunicated Martin Luther has a

220
00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:02.079
heretic So I mean, it's just
just getting sorry. Scent is by the

221
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:07.200
way, the John Paul the second
and cyclical that has to do with the

222
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.480
role of the Bishop of Rome in
terms of premacy. So this, this

223
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:18.799
document is the anniversary of what I'm
sent in the middle of late nineties.

224
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:23.720
Then you then that was an if
then statement dot dot dot. Then we

225
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:30.759
have to take seriously that even though
Pastora turns the Vatican One document, which

226
00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:37.759
I have luckily reread recently, is
while dogmatic, it is in some way

227
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:44.640
mutable. How can it be perfectly
it's not. Though, Again, if

228
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:51.759
you read Pachindi and if you read
Lamentabiley, you cannot revise and reward and

229
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:57.599
interpret the documents differently than they were
understood in their time and in their place

230
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.359
and in their meaning. And for
those that don't know, if you're in

231
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.160
the trad world, you all know
Pacindi, this is one of the most

232
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.279
famous and cyclicals of Pius the tenth. Again for trads, he's like the

233
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:11.559
last you know sainted Pope, because
most tradcats are not big fans of John

234
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:15.359
Paul the Second. The whole point
of this document is to point out that

235
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:21.000
dogmas do not evolve, the meaning
does not evolve. The condemnation of the

236
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:26.400
modernists in this document is precisely the
condemnation of the idea that we can have

237
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:30.960
a evolving religious experience that allows us
to go back and reinterpret the text and

238
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.240
the dogmas contrary to the way that
they were understood at the time. And

239
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:41.599
the whole document goes through the methods, the presuppositions of the modernists, their

240
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.240
view of dogma being able to be
revised and changed and to be mutable,

241
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.920
even to the point of the Magisterium
of the Church being revisable, immutable,

242
00:24:53.039 --> 00:25:00.759
changeable, and the whole document essentially
condemns them as heretics. It's very famous.

243
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:04.359
Every trad knows this document. Now
on top of that, there's also

244
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:17.440
a lamentability and it's the same Pope, and it's called the Syllabus of Errors,

245
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:22.480
which if I recall, is attached
to Vatican One. So if you

246
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.799
believe Vatican One, you also have
to believe the syllabus of errors. It's

247
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:32.920
about, you know, the ascent
of faith rests on probabilities. You know,

248
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:38.880
we can revise things based on new
information. It's all kinds of stuff.

249
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.039
I think towards the end it gets
into more of what we're talking about.

250
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.799
Ever suspected Christ and trusted in the
premacy of the Church upon Him,

251
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.359
the very thing that that document says
we can is a way to read Vatican

252
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:59.200
one document. Dogmas, sacraments,
and hierarchy, both their notion and their

253
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:04.640
reality are only interpretations and evolutions of
Christian intelligence which have increased and perfected by

254
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:10.400
the external series of additions to a
little germ latent in the Gospel. Look

255
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:15.519
at that the evolution of these things
from a seed form is condemned. The

256
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.119
organic constitution of the Church is not
mutable, but like a human society,

257
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:26.880
it's s susptible to evolution. Essentially, all of these ideas right, are

258
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:37.680
things where it can evolve. Right, the Church must reconcile herself to modern

259
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:44.839
scientific progress. Condemned scienteed, progress
demands that the doctrines of God and Creation

260
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:52.720
be readjusted condemned again. Pretty much
all Roman Catholics post Novas Orto believe about

261
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.920
half of the things that are condemned
in LAMENTABILEI. So you can go read

262
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.160
this for yourself. Of course,
they're never going to read it. They

263
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:06.000
don't go they don't read this stuff. So those are key points to keep

264
00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:10.400
in mind for when the Roman Catholics
say, well, the meaning and the

265
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:15.480
sense of these taxes and the wording
can be revised. We're going to get

266
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.839
to the actual text here in a
second dogmatic, in a crystallized form,

267
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:26.240
if it represented new dogmatic teaching on
people primacy itself, that was not operative

268
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:33.240
in the first Christian millennium when the
tetrarchy was really the way. Now people

269
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.720
will say tech trarchy was you know
the fins he means pentarchy. I don't

270
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.480
know where he's I don't know why
he's calling it tetrarchy. He means pentarchy.

271
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:48.519
So sometimes the stream glitches. I
don't know what to tell you.

272
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:53.759
So are we back? Hopefully we're
back? So right? I mean the

273
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:57.319
later councils, especially the south of
that Ceminical Council mentioned that the church is

274
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:07.000
governed by the Roman bishop in consultation
and in senidality with the other patriarchs known

275
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.680
as the pentarchy. So it's actually
mentioned explicitly in the Seventh Ecumunical Council.

276
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:17.039
So it's not a papal statement,
as the documents admit. It's a statement

277
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:21.839
of conciliarity and sinidality, which is
what we've always argued is orthodox. So

278
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:26.720
Tim says tetrarchy, he means pentarchy
in some way mutable. How can it

279
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:33.200
be perfectly dogmatic in a crystallized form
if it represented new dogmatic teaching on papal

280
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:41.920
primacy itself, that was not operative. So Tim is wrestling with obviously here

281
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:45.480
the things that we've been saying,
These are the objections that we've been bringing

282
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:51.160
forth, and now that we people
are seeing it's not just us, this

283
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:55.640
is actually in the documents. The
documents are wrestling with the very things we're

284
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.799
talking about. And you know,
Chi eighty was great in a lot of

285
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:04.960
way, but the strongest statement really
was just this that Sartica is not a

286
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:10.680
final court of appeals, it is
a retrial, and the Roman bishop doesn't

287
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:18.759
conduct the retrial. Then we've got
the statement that other major seeds were also

288
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:26.640
appealed to and that the Bishop of
Rome did not exercise canonical authority over the

289
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.319
churches of the East. This is
restated in the new paper document. So

290
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.039
we have a double affirmation of this
point. Now, the Roman Catholics were

291
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:38.079
coping last week with this one by
saying, oh, well, you see

292
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:42.799
he had that power for the first
millennium, he just didn't exercise it.

293
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:48.640
Well, he didn't exercise it.
Wait a minute, so you can't roll

294
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.400
out all your examples of him exercising
it if he didn't exercise it. Okay,

295
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.960
So Clement goes out the door.
Formula for business goes out the door,

296
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.680
the misuse of the Kansas Artica goes
out the door. Celestine An emphasis

297
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.599
goes out the door. You understand, you can't have both of those things.

298
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:11.480
You can't have a potential universal role
that's never exercised and then turn around

299
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.480
and say, here's all my examples
of the pope operating with universal supreme jurisdiction.

300
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.960
Obviously those things can't both be true. It's either one or the other.

301
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:22.920
And by the way, if he
had it and never used it,

302
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:27.519
how absurd is that that he's not
doing the very duty for which supposedly he's

303
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:33.119
created right. The Roman bishop has
this authority, in this power to universally

304
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.359
have jurisdiction and solve disputes, but
he just sits back and doesn't do anything

305
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.119
for a thousand years. Okay,
So you see how stupid the argumentation of

306
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:42.759
these people is. They can't even
realize trying to make this goofy thing work

307
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:51.480
when they have actually contradicted themselves.
Yea, when the tech tarchy was really

308
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:56.519
the pentarchy. Pentarchy tech tarchy was, you know, the five ce's was

309
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:02.480
mainly the first five or six hundred
years, but it was operative until we

310
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:08.279
didn't even have a college of cardinals
until a little before the first Christian Millennium

311
00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:11.039
ended. Yeah, I think it's
I just looked this up either day.

312
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:17.599
The first cardinal is mentioned in the
Papa Dooccus Mayendorff book Electing the Pope,

313
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.240
and I think ten or eleven hundred. I think it's around eleven hundred,

314
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:23.839
like ten oh four, eleven oh
four, I can't remember exactly, but

315
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.640
it's in the Papadoccus Minor book.
So these are all preliminary thoughts, and

316
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:33.759
I'm just peppering you with I don't
think this is straight up Francis foolishness.

317
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:38.680
JP two's fingerprints are all over it
also, and I don't trust him.

318
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.240
Yeah, but it's not just foolishness
of John Paul the Second and foolishness of

319
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:52.400
Francis. It's actual historical issues that
way beyond just Francis and others have been

320
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:56.279
admitted. Now again, it's not
just the CHI eighty document with this great

321
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:02.799
admission at the bottom here. Last
year is amazing Alexandria document which deals with

322
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:08.200
the second millennium. It deals with
the barleyam It deals with the uncreated energies,

323
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:13.599
basically admitting most of our positions,
not everything, but many of our

324
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.119
positions, admits the usage of the
forgeries. It admits all the stuff you

325
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:21.799
always hear us complaining about, which, by the way, is essentially Rome

326
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.119
kind of saying okay, yeah,
you guys have a great point here.

327
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:30.759
Now, with all of that in
mind, the question then becomes, what

328
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.160
about Vatican One. Well, that's
the key point here, that's the big

329
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:42.359
stumbling block here, And the approach
of the new document is interesting that they

330
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.880
take some odd routes here. One
of the routes they take is to say

331
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:55.319
Vatican One was one sided, and
when we get Vatican two. It's an

332
00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:01.400
attempt to sort of even out this
one sidedness by bringing back the notion of

333
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:10.440
collegiality and snidelity. And I mean
again that that's a kind of, I

334
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:17.039
guess, an understandable approach. But
the problem is that this whole document is

335
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:23.160
not even It's almost like it's an
admission of the contradiction. And the approach

336
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:29.559
is, let's figure out ways to
revise and reword it. That's the problem.

337
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.720
And if we're at that point,
then we're really just talking about a

338
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:38.000
contradiction, you see. So let's
look at first, I think paragraph five,

339
00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:45.279
which the first twenty nine pages is
not it's pretty boring. It's about

340
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:52.160
twenty nine pages in toward it actually
starts getting into interesting stuff. Poupe Francis

341
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:54.839
has reiterated several times the invitation of
John Paul the Second to find a new

342
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.599
way of expressing premiacy. Now,
wait a minute, why do we need

343
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:04.720
a new to express it? If
Vatican won is dogma, and why do

344
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.800
we need a new way of expressing
it? When Pious the Tenth condemns the

345
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:13.920
idea of new ways to exercise and
express these statements to make them palatable.

346
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.119
John Paul of the Second noted that
little progress had been made in that regard,

347
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:28.440
calling for a pastoral conversion of the
papacy and the central structures of the

348
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:36.079
Catholic Church. He acknowledged the excess
of centralization, rather than proving helpful,

349
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:39.639
complicates the church in her mission and
our outreach. Now wait a minute.

350
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:47.519
Vatican one's premise is that greater centralization
will help the function of the church and

351
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:52.760
ensure the ability of the Roman pontiff
to guard and preserve the tradition that's tanned

352
00:34:52.800 --> 00:35:00.519
it down without blemish. Why would
we need a conversion of the papacy,

353
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:12.039
a pastoral conversion of the papacy,
that's bizarre. He especially laments the insufficient

354
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:21.280
elaboration of episcopal conferences. Understanding this
openness to dialogue with all believers in Christ,

355
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:25.719
making sinidelity a key theme of his
pontificate. Francis stress is the importance

356
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:31.800
of sinidelity grounded in the sense of
faith of the people and in the infallible

357
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:37.360
in credendo fallible in faith. In
other words, the whole church will not

358
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:49.159
apostatize or will not air well.
Okay, but that to me already smacks

359
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:54.239
of bizarre wording and terminology given what
we just saw in Vatican one. Vatican

360
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:59.199
one's pretty pretty brief, concise,
and to the point. It doesn't mince

361
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:05.840
words, lays it out right.
Next, I want to look at this

362
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.679
paragraph thirty eight. Catholics have rediscovered
diversity of leadership in the New Testament.

363
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.599
Catholics. Okay, Now, the
Pope's blaaners and the Roman Catholic kopers are

364
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:22.280
saying, this document doesn't mean anything. It's just a statement of the debate

365
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:28.000
bros arguments against this. It doesn't
mean no, no, this is a

366
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:35.039
statement about you. It's not just
a document that collects debate bro arguments against

367
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:37.599
Roman Catholics. It's a document that
talks about a whole bunch of stuff.

368
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:44.840
In many places, it's talking about
the Catholic position, rediscovering, reforming,

369
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:52.400
changing, rewording, revising. Catholics
have rediscovered the diversity of leadership in the

370
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:57.719
New Testament. So, in other
words, Catholics are admitting the positions of

371
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:04.320
the Orthodox. In fact, in
Matthew sixteen. Though this sounds like my

372
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.880
argument that I always bring up,
why the same thing said to Peter appears

373
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:14.559
to the whole college in Matthew eighteen. Yeah, exactly. The same statements

374
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:20.079
also appear to the other apostles in
Ephesians two twenty. In fact, it's

375
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.960
not just given to Peter alone,
but the powers and the spirit, etc.

376
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:30.599
Are given to the entire body of
the apostles. So this is really

377
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.639
just kind of an admission here of
collegiality and centinelity in the New Testament,

378
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:44.239
which is something that the Orthodox are
always arguing. Next, finally, Catholics

379
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:49.280
have always been confronted with other views
and the question of the trans transmissibility of

380
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:54.360
petri ministry. In other words,
admitting that Peter didn't just die and establish

381
00:37:54.440 --> 00:38:00.599
a church at Rome. Peter founded
the Church of Antioch and Alexandria. So

382
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:05.039
this admits that, and it notes
that the New Testament is not say anywhere

383
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.639
that another church has taken off from
that of Jerusalem. The premiacy of the

384
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.840
Church of Peter and Paul, that
is to say, of Rome, is

385
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.119
a fact in the New Testament,
and we don't have a problem with that.

386
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.960
So, in other words, the
premiacy of Rome, it's fine to

387
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:23.000
say that it derives from Peter.
The problem is that there's nothing about Peter

388
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:28.480
dying in Rome, or the Church
of Rome being called doubly apostolic, which,

389
00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:32.400
by the way, this text admits
that the Irenaeus statement calls it doubly

390
00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:38.199
apostolic because of Peter M. Paul. Vatican One actually says Southisk Pastor Returnas

391
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.280
says that you cannot say that the
premiacy of the roman Sea is because it's

392
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:45.960
doubly apostolic. You have to say
this is because of Peter alone. And

393
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:52.559
yet, as this document admits,
the reason that it's Petrine that the roman

394
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:55.480
Sea has sort of singled out is
well, it's because Peter died there.

395
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:06.760
But wait a minute, is not
enough. Because he died there In the

396
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.800
Latin Church, the martyrdom and burial
Peter was the basis for the application of

397
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:17.079
the Petrion text and it cites Tertullian. Okay, so what so this is

398
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:23.559
proven by Tortullian? Well, Urtullian
says, all kinds of does citing Tertullian

399
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:29.800
prove Montanism? Well he this was
before he was a Montanous, So so

400
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:34.840
what I mean, it's fine to
talk about early attestations. And even if

401
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.039
we can see that the martyrdom and
burial Peter is the basis for the tradition

402
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:43.000
of applying the Patrion text to the
Bishop of Rome. It doesn't follow from

403
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:47.239
that that everything that Peter had or
that there's an infallibility because Peter died.

404
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.960
There you see the leaps that are
made. The reference to scriptural text highlighting

405
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:58.000
the role of Peter appears as early
as the second secondary phenomena compared to the

406
00:39:58.039 --> 00:40:01.920
primary practice. So this is citing
one of the ecumenical meetings with Leo.

407
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:05.920
The correlation between the Bishop Rome and
the Church and the image of Peter,

408
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:09.079
which had already been implied by some
of his predecessors, became explicit correct.

409
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:15.360
But we don't see, as the
document later admits, ex opery operato direct

410
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:22.199
universal autocracy. We just see Peter
beginning to Leo, beginning to link the

411
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:25.519
sea more and more to Peter himself. That's the point of this admission here,

412
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.760
and that's fine. We wouldn't even
having a problem with this as Orthodox.

413
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.400
Some of this conviction is supported by
the bishops of the Council of Chalcedon

414
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:45.320
in their approval of Leo's tone to
Flavian. However, uh oh, what

415
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:51.840
does it mean that Peter has spoken
through Leo? Others observe that Leo's tone

416
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.360
was accepted because it was consistent with
the teachings the serial of Alexandria, the

417
00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:01.760
very thing we always argue to these
people. The Council was careful to underline

418
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:19.119
Leo's argument with zero cyril. Excuse
me exactly all right? Next forty five?

419
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:35.039
Oh wait, I just read that
one Orthodox International Orthodox cowth the International

420
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:39.239
Dialogue describes this theological development in the
West as the primacy of the Sea of

421
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:43.599
Rome as it was under so,
particularly from the fourth century onwards, in

422
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:47.960
reference to Peter's role amongst the apostles. So notice nothing in this is as

423
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:54.239
of yet at all claiming anything like
Vatican won. So what we're noticing is

424
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:59.840
an evolution of the idea, which
is the very thing that we've always said

425
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:04.039
is Orthodox. Okay, the Orthodox
position has not ever been saying that Peter

426
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.199
has no role, or that Rome
was never considered first, or anything like

427
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:09.039
that. It's a question of what
does it mean to say that Rome was

428
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:14.239
first and that Rome had premiacy.
Does that equate to the claims about it

429
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:19.960
can win. That's the whole issue. Noticed, this amazing admission the premiacy

430
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:24.880
of the Bishop of Rome among the
bishops was gradually interpreted as a prerogative that

431
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:30.760
was his because of his successorship to
Peter the First Apostles, This understanding was

432
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:45.519
not adopted in the East, which
had different interpretations. What did she ades

433
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:52.119
say? The Bishop of Rome did
not exercise canonical authority over the churches of

434
00:42:52.159 --> 00:43:07.840
the East. So this cancel out
their attempts at using they're bad examples from

435
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:12.920
the first five centuries and ephesis and
all of that to prove the very thing

436
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:21.320
that these documents are manting. Isn't
there so Celestine pote Victor over a Quarterdesseminarian

437
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:25.400
presides in love Clement, all of
these are cancer that it's in other words,

438
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:42.360
of say admitting that these don't prove
that all right, Next is forty

439
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:58.039
nine. This is a statement that
I said earlier, is the power conferred

440
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.559
upon Peter direct from Christ. It's
quoting one of the documenical documents saying that

441
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:07.960
it need not be understood as directly
from Christ, which is the contradictory contradiction

442
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:15.079
with the statement in Vatican I.
Even the writers of this realize that's a

443
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:17.079
problem. That's why they say.
The nineteen ninety one a Catholic response to

444
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:22.760
this document said that there's reservations.
Oh but the CDF says no, Actually,

445
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:43.840
it's kind of cool and it works. Next up thirty eight, one

446
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:46.639
must further pose the question of whether
and to what degree the Roman Catholic Church

447
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:52.239
fundamentally sees the possibility of a form
of communion for non Catholic churches with the

448
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:59.880
pope. I mean, imagine saying
this and not knowing about un I'm sunk.

449
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:07.559
I mean, this is just like
kind of crazy when I'm signing to

450
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:15.079
them as the thirteen oh two definition
of the One Holy Catholic Roman Catholic Apostolic

451
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:20.159
Church and what's necessary to be saved. Of course, this document doesn't just

452
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:27.559
teach that quote. Furthermore, we
declare, we proclaim, we defined that

453
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:34.159
it is absolutely necessary for salvation that
every human creature be subject to the Roman

454
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:38.960
Pontiff, clear as they. I
mean, at least the medieval papacy didn't

455
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.119
mince words and engage in all this
bureaucratic ambiguity. At least they were clear

456
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:50.519
in what they said. But now
we're at the point where, in all

457
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:55.400
of this historical revision crap, we
can actually just say, let's find a

458
00:45:55.480 --> 00:46:01.239
way a new type of union that
allows for people outside of the church explicitly,

459
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:06.880
explicitly rejecting many of the doctrines of
the Romancalloic Church to be in communion.

460
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.719
How do we do that, Well, we figure out a way in

461
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:15.360
which the essence of the petrime ministry
is preserved, and we just kind of

462
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:19.719
redefine it to where you can have
like a fifty percent papacy, a forty

463
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:22.559
percent papacy awarding communion with eighty percent
papacy. Over here in our church,

464
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:28.440
Protestants, they are like thirty percent. Literally, that's what this So this

465
00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:36.639
document is intended explicitly to explore the
many ways that they might find degrees of

466
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:43.599
communion with the Pope to heal the
wounds of the church. In other words,

467
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:46.840
it is no longer a question of
being inside or outside the church.

468
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:52.679
Whereas in Vatican One, for example, you are excommunicated and damned if you

469
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:58.840
reject the Vatican One definitions of the
papacy. Clear as day in the Council

470
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:00.760
of Trent, if you rejected this
teachings of the Council of Trent, and

471
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:07.039
it's anathemas you are actu communicated and
damned. But now that was a historical

472
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:13.519
reality that could be revised to where
there's degrees of communion that we can find

473
00:47:13.599 --> 00:47:19.239
in terms of new unions with the
Roman See this is regarded, this is

474
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:25.800
ridiculous, and obviously the document is
intended to do this. The whole purpose

475
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:30.079
of the document is to find a
new way to make Vatican One work.

476
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:36.320
That's why the next gigantic chunk of
the document is about figuring out how to

477
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:42.719
understand reword Vatican One. But notice
this is a pretty amazing admission here.

478
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:50.880
We need to figure out a new
way to find communion for non Catholics with

479
00:47:51.159 --> 00:48:01.480
Peter that are other than the canonical
forms of the Middle Ages, in canonical

480
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:07.760
forms other than those in the Middle
Ages. So they understand the embarrassment of

481
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.239
the medieval papacy. They want to
move away from that, and they understand

482
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:13.320
it. The only way they're going
to get all of these other people who

483
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:17.559
don't accept this stuff to come into
it is to reword it and revise it.

484
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:34.159
Next is, since the Middle Ages, Catholic theologians have claimed the ministry

485
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.280
of the pope is a direct divine
law. It is directly a power and

486
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:45.239
authority given by God. These ideas
can be traced prior to Vodican one.

487
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:50.960
Then it goes into the Council of
Florence, which again restates the notion that

488
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:54.239
you have to be in union with
the Roman bishop to be saved. Right,

489
00:48:54.320 --> 00:49:00.760
It reaffirms what when I'm Sanctum says. Then it admits that there was

490
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:06.039
a phenomena of unionism where they began
to allow the Roman or Orthodox to come

491
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:09.800
back, but be Orthodox in terms
of their theology and beliefs, just submit

492
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:17.320
to the pope. But pasta attornis, Vatican one created a new situation proclaiming

493
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:22.920
these ideas. That's dogmas. They
have proved to be a significant obstacle,

494
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:31.079
You think, exactly, so,
how do we find out a way to

495
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:43.280
make it palatable? Well, Ratzinger
says, there is with scripture a phenomena

496
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:49.480
of relecture. I So likewise dogmas
are not to be understood as isolated,

497
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:55.519
but in a process of dogmatic historical
relecture. This is development of doctrine within

498
00:49:55.599 --> 00:50:00.360
the history of the faith. That
is, this is the insight of like

499
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.679
significance with Vatican One is obvious according
to and then it cites Casper. According

500
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:09.320
to the Calvary, is such a
re reception revision in other words should put

501
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:14.760
in does not put into question the
validity of the definitions, but the interpretations.

502
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.360
So we're not gonna get rid of
Vatican One. We're going to reinterpret

503
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:32.239
Vatican One. What a bunch of
scam scammery. Just reinterpret it. I

504
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:36.800
mean this is essentially what this is
the point of bringing up the units is

505
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.679
like, just do what we did
with the unions. How whatever theology you

506
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:45.599
want, just submit to the Pope. Why would we want to do We

507
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:47.719
don't want to do that. Why
would we want to do that? I

508
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:52.679
mean, does this whole does this
thing look like it actually works? It

509
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:55.519
looks like a giant mess, and
you want us to join in on this

510
00:50:55.639 --> 00:51:06.320
giant mess. Let's see No.
Sixty one. Okay, the next paragraph

511
00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:21.000
is sixty one. The reason I
highlighted this is because now they're proposing a

512
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:27.079
bunch of historical revision based on historical
factors. Oh well, you see,

513
00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:30.920
Vatican One had this going on because
of the Franco Prussian War, and there

514
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:36.800
was this concern about this and that
historical event. And then there's a what's

515
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:44.840
your hermaeutical and principle? You see
a hermineutics of dogma draws attention to the

516
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:49.719
fact that you must be distinguished between
the formula and the intention, between what

517
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:58.199
is said and what is meant.
The Council of Vatican one wanted to be

518
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:06.000
understood according to the ancient and constant
belief. Oh but that's ignoring the question

519
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:10.199
of whether it just simply contradicts.
And the whole document is essentially admitting that

520
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:16.480
and saying, so we got to
figure out a new way. New historical

521
00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:24.320
investigations allow us to distinguish between the
dogmas as they're stated in what was meant.

522
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:31.280
That's called revision. We can arrive
perhaps at a new assessment of the

523
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:37.239
conciliar definitions. Now that's quoting these
documenical statements, So the ramachealth's going to

524
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:40.599
say, what doesn't mean to accept
it. The whole point of the document

525
00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:51.199
is exploring the ways to make it
work through revision and reinterpretation. This document

526
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:57.079
is an admission of the very critique
that we've made all along. How is

527
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.320
this doing anyone any good? When
that we could just reinterpret the documents?

528
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:04.960
And by the way, if there's
Vatican three, I kid you not.

529
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:07.400
In the last few weeks we've had
Roman Celtics saying, well, why don't

530
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:12.679
you just wait for Vatican three to
clarify what's unclear and Vatican one and Vatican

531
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:17.840
two, because the clarifications don't clarify, they're subject to the new revisions,

532
00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:24.880
you see, So we won't know
Vatican three until we have Vatican four.

533
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:32.320
How stupid this is. This is
preposterous, and the whole thing contradicts lamentabili

534
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:37.239
and pachindi dominici gragious, which says
that you can't read dogmas as if they're

535
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:44.960
evolving in this way, because it
makes all of them relativized. That means

536
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.519
that Nicea no longer means what Nicia
meant. And by the way, these

537
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:54.199
idiots are consistent with that because they
defend Ustorius. Now remember what a voice

538
00:53:54.199 --> 00:54:01.880
of reasons say, Well, the
grabbilical cope EMPs emersis is done in venable.

539
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:08.599
We know now that before no you
think that, we don't think that

540
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:15.239
no sour As was a hard thing. It's over you because you want everybody

541
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:24.360
to accept this nonsense to make this
stupid system work. The results of new

542
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:30.679
historical investigations might be the way that
we can make Vatican two work, I

543
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:39.440
mean Vatican one work. Next up, forty five, and so doing the

544
00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:44.760
theology of Vatican two developed the teachings
of Vatican one. Well, so you

545
00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:47.360
didn't like what was in Vatican one, bro, just relaxed. There's gonna

546
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:52.679
be a theological development and it'll all
work out when we get the next council.

547
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:57.559
See, all you people confuse and
want just wait for Vatican three,

548
00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:01.480
bro, Just let it dive and
the solutions will come in Vatican three.

549
00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:06.320
Oh and then when we're all confused
and we don't know what Vatican three means,

550
00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:10.960
bro, just wait for Vatican four. Dude, duh. Vatican four

551
00:55:12.039 --> 00:55:15.000
will solve everything that we didn't know, which was all the things that we

552
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:19.679
wanted to know in Vatican three.
But when I wait a minute, we

553
00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:22.239
get the Vatican four and we don't
know anything, what do we do?

554
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:29.159
Bro? Duh? Vatican five?
How dumb are you? This is so

555
00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:34.239
ridiculous. I mean, just on
a philosophical level, can none of you

556
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:39.039
people Roman Catholics out there in your
cult understand this gibberish like that this is

557
00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:44.480
not getting you anywhere, Like all
of these documents are admitting the things that

558
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:49.679
we've been saying. Even the very
process of the praxis of trying to make

559
00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:54.960
this system work through dialogue and waiting
for the next documentical council, it just

560
00:55:55.079 --> 00:56:00.280
kicks the can down the road,
because then when we have all that and

561
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:04.199
Vatican three, all these idiots you're
gonna say, we just wait for Vedican

562
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.800
four and do we give Vedican Ford, and then it will be Quel,

563
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:20.880
and then everybody will be cel.
It will be Quell and Cel. Do

564
00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:32.960
we you can drive? Do we
give you fifty three? What's the next

565
00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:38.360
doozy? The ecumenicity of the decisions
of a council is recognized, their process

566
00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:46.000
of reception. Oh so reception is
actually part of Catholic tradition too. Oh

567
00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:50.800
you mean the thing that Michael Laughton's
always trying to attack. Oh well,

568
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:55.000
here's your actual documents admitting that reception
is part of your your church's tradition as

569
00:56:55.039 --> 00:57:13.639
well. Uh oh fifty seven.
Fifty seven restates eighty. Between the fourth

570
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:16.119
and seventh centuries, the order of
the taxes. The Pive five patriarchal seas

571
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:21.119
came to be recognized based on its
sanctioned by the acimunical councils, with the

572
00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:25.599
sea of realm occupy in the first
place, exercising and infallible Vatican one jurisdiction.

573
00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:31.079
No, a premiacy of honor followed
by concept of Alexandria anok Jerusalem accord

574
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:43.159
to quote canonical tradition now eighty is
an approved Roman Catholic document here citidelity and

575
00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:52.400
premacy in the first millennium twenty sixteen. So that's a Roman Catholic document admission,

576
00:57:52.880 --> 00:58:09.360
that's not Loots site the Ortho Brews. No, that's your admission sixty

577
00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:28.880
six. The response for Unity saying
recalls Ratzinger. As far as the doctrine

578
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:34.400
of premacy is concerned, Rome must
not require more of the East than was

579
00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:39.880
formulated and lived during the First millennium
exactly, which is not Vatican one.

580
00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:45.280
And how long we've cited this text
all the time. Half the time Roman

581
00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:50.119
Catholics think we've made this up,
like Ratzinger didn't actually say that. Right,

582
00:58:52.400 --> 00:58:55.920
Well, if all that's required is
what was practiced in the first millennium,

583
00:58:57.079 --> 00:59:00.280
then Vatican one's not required. That's
the logic of that. You don't

584
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:13.000
see that, How silly are you, guys? Ninety three, As noted

585
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:19.519
in the Sinality and Primacy in the
First Millennium, Again, the Bishop of

586
00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:29.199
Rome did not exercise canonical authority over
the churches of the East exactly Oops sixty

587
00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:37.320
eight. While the statements of Ignatius
and Irenaeus relate to the Church of Rome,

588
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:42.599
the implications of the personal authority of
the bishop Rome were increasingly recognized in

589
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:45.519
the West. In other words,
it evolved, it was not immediate.

590
00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:51.079
There in the first, second,
third century now Southeast Cognitum Vatican one,

591
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:54.840
they teach that it was always there, it didn't evolve. So which is

592
00:59:54.880 --> 01:00:00.119
it evolving or always there? We? It was always do will he do?

593
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.360
Didn't do we? Okay, well, if he didn't do it,

594
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:08.000
then the examples that you give aren't
examples of it. He had the poe,

595
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:19.719
but you don't do we ninety Yeah. Rome must be seen within different

596
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:23.280
spheres of influence, which made effective
decisions in articulated church tradition. Moreover,

597
01:00:23.320 --> 01:00:28.320
the bishop room significant role in the
formation of doctrine such as Leo and Gregory,

598
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:31.320
was not seen as competing with the
authority of local and regional bishops in

599
01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:37.960
the Western Church and synods, but
rather reinforcing it. Well, that's senidality,

600
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:42.599
and that's not Vatican one. Because
Vatican one states very clearly that the

601
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:47.800
Roman bishop does not have his authority
by virtue of the Synati bishops. He

602
01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:54.840
does not need to consult them about
dogmatic pronouncements. It's actually condemned if you

603
01:00:54.960 --> 01:01:00.119
believe that the authority of the Roman
bishop is in any way contingent upon on

604
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:06.679
the College of the bishops. That's
condemned. This whole document is framed from

605
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:14.719
the vantage point of trying to make
Roman primacy be situated within collegiality. They

606
01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:16.639
can't both be true. You can't, on the one hand, say that

607
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:21.199
he has it's unilateral, but it's
not unilateral. You see. That's the

608
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:30.000
point. It's either unilateral or it's
not. So this is admitting that their

609
01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:40.159
sentidelity even in the West in these
centuries, and not an autocracy. In

610
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:45.760
the East, the role of the
bishops of Rome was clearly defined, less

611
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:50.559
clearly defined, but grew in importance
during the Great doctrinal Controversies. Yet the

612
01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:59.960
premiacy was primarily conceived as a precedence. As such, Rome was constantly granted

613
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:02.960
presidence to head of sea such as
Antioch and Alexandria, but was not primarily

614
01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:07.360
viewed in the East as possessing a
special form of authority in all matters.

615
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:14.039
Thus the claim that the universal supremacy
and jurisdiction of the Roman bishop being known

616
01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:31.519
from the earliest days of the church
by all is not true. The apostolic

617
01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:35.920
canons are brought up Canon thirty four. The bishops of the people of a

618
01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:40.679
province or region or an ethnos must
recognize the one who is first amongst them,

619
01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:45.400
the protos, and consider him their
head. They're kephala, and not

620
01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:49.440
do anything important without his consent.
Each bishop may only do what concerns his

621
01:02:49.519 --> 01:02:55.840
own diocese and its dependent territories.
This is jurisdiction limitations. And there's nothing

622
01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:00.440
in this that has anything to do
with exempting the Roman beance. And these

623
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:04.559
types of canons are repeated to everyone
the acumenical councils. So this is the

624
01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:08.760
canonical argument that we always make.
Have we not always made this canonical argument,

625
01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:13.920
not just from this canon, but
for many canons. Every actumenical council

626
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:17.559
has canons that don't make sense about
it. Can one this is this document

627
01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:38.360
admitting this argument. Let's see one
O one. This is also on Sartica.

628
01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:46.199
Another admission from Sartica. The procedure
of canonical appeals. The appellate structure

629
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:52.119
corresponds more to a final court.
It's worth mentioning that this procedure corresponds more

630
01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:57.199
to a final court appeal to a
court of cassation. Since the retrial is

631
01:03:57.320 --> 01:04:02.760
conducted not by Rome but by local
bishops. Canon three of Sardica justifies the

632
01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:08.840
decision concerning the appeal procedure to the
Sea of Rome on spiritual grounds. Thus,

633
01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:14.119
the document Court calls a common reception
of the Phocian Council as a starting

634
01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:16.639
point on ecumenical dialogue. In other
words, yeah, we can begin this

635
01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:23.960
ecumenical dialogue about the Canons of Sartica
because they weren't a de facto appeal to

636
01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:31.079
a final court in Rome. That's
why Chi eighty says that appeals were also

637
01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:40.960
done to other patriarchates, so it's
not the Vatican one pope. Appeals regarding

638
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:46.599
disciplinary matters were also made to Constant
and upland other seas. Such appeals were

639
01:04:46.639 --> 01:05:03.039
always treated in a synotical way,
reaffirming Chiadi referring to Sartica, and it

640
01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:13.880
repeats this position from chiad Rare.
All of these appeals were done in a

641
01:05:14.599 --> 01:05:17.719
synotical way, and not a final
court appeal to the Bishop of Rome.

642
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:24.280
The final court of appeal is the
court, not the Bishop of Rome.

643
01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:39.360
CHI eighty references the criteria for the
reception of a council as acumenical as described

644
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:45.679
by the Seventh Ecumenical Council, namely, the symphonia of the heads plural of

645
01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:49.679
the churches and the cooperation of the
Bishop of Rome and the agreement of the

646
01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:56.880
other patriarchs. That's snidelity. That
is not the doctrine of Vatican I.

647
01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:03.079
That is what CHI eighty is admitting. That's symphonia and synodality. That's why

648
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:30.480
they're putting together these documents on what
cynodality cynidality. For example, the Church

649
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:35.760
of Alexandria and Rome had specific internal
organizational principles different from the other churches.

650
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:41.639
This is not necessarily a church dividing
practice. Well, how come Vatican one

651
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:46.320
damns anyone that doesn't except Vatican one. Then diversity is not only to be

652
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:51.480
accepted, but be welcomed as healthy. Okay, But the trent to from

653
01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:57.559
unham sicked them to trent to Vatican
one. There's not much diversity there,

654
01:07:00.440 --> 01:07:03.760
as Vatican too says concerning the Eastern
churches. Far from bringing an obstacle.

655
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:13.400
A diversity of customs and observances adds
to the splendor in this context. With

656
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:17.199
reference to the subtitle of Chad,
is it necessary or even desirable that we

657
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:25.840
have identical understandings? I mean,
consider the Joint Lutheran Catholic Internal Dialogue International

658
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:30.679
Dialogue on the Declaration of the Doctrine
of Justification, which is another contradiction because

659
01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:35.519
luther is condemned in multiple places in
Denzinger and by Pope Leo for his doctrine

660
01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:44.119
of justification. Trent explicitly condemns the
Lutheran position on justification, but the Lutheran

661
01:07:44.159 --> 01:07:47.519
Catholic Dialogue approved by the Pope,
by the way, does not do that.

662
01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:51.320
In fact that it says it can
be rewarded and re understood. Why

663
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:56.800
Because, as this document is proposing, there's a lot of different diversities of

664
01:07:56.840 --> 01:08:00.239
interpretations and understandings. Isn't that beautiful? Isn't it wonderful the way that we're

665
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:10.719
so diverse. This document then moves
on to talk about I'm gonna skip on

666
01:08:10.920 --> 01:08:17.359
to the final sections deal with the
fact that the purpose of the document is

667
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:30.560
in fact ecumenism. It's past.
Let's see son It talks about different types

668
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:36.880
of senility at extra at intra fellowship
with the other people who don't accept the

669
01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:40.680
papacy. How can we figure that? Then it says working and praying together,

670
01:08:41.479 --> 01:08:45.640
which is a rejection of more tellium
animals, which says that it's apostasy

671
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:55.000
to have liturgical celebrations with other Christians. Doesn't even imagine the papacy going and

672
01:08:55.119 --> 01:09:03.479
praying and chanting with Buddhists. But
it makes clear that the purpose of this

673
01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:10.960
document is acumenism, to find a
way to rediscover brotherhood and as we saw,

674
01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:18.560
reword, revise and reinterpret through new
approaches, particularly the petrin texts and

675
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:30.640
the really stumbling block difficulty of Vatican
one. It's very difficult to make clear

676
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:38.399
the bishop of the Bishop of Rome
established with his authority by divine law exactly.

677
01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:43.800
That is difficult, and that's what
Vatican one claims. But hermeneutical clarifications

678
01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:53.600
can give us a new perspective,
a new interpretation to do what to reread

679
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:59.760
and rerecept the council. You see
how absurd this is. And when we

680
01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:06.159
get Vatican three, Vatican three can
reread and recept, and the Vatican four

681
01:10:06.279 --> 01:10:17.239
can reread and recept everything else that
came before. What's the purpose of all

682
01:10:17.279 --> 01:10:25.199
this? A unified, reconciled church
ecumenism, so clear as day. The

683
01:10:25.239 --> 01:10:31.079
whole purpose of the document is to
allow a revised interpretation and a rewarded interpretation

684
01:10:31.279 --> 01:10:35.199
of the key stumbling block of Vatican
One, which is what we're always harping

685
01:10:35.239 --> 01:10:42.319
on, because that's clearly the problem, and it's the clearest contradiction. And

686
01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:45.399
this document is just another admission of
all the points that we've been making,

687
01:10:45.520 --> 01:10:50.760
and it's another affirmation of what's in
Chiaty and the Alexandria Document, both of

688
01:10:50.840 --> 01:10:57.279
which are damning. The most damning
is Alexandria. And for those who have

689
01:10:57.359 --> 01:11:00.600
not read the Alexander Document, I
highly recommend reading it and go and watch

690
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:04.680
the podcast that we did on it
not too long ago, more than Francis.

691
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:14.079
But there's a philosophical natural law,
natural reason, article of undeniability,

692
01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:25.600
a little pebble beneath all these mattresses
that is undeniable authority has never been worked

693
01:11:25.640 --> 01:11:30.680
out in the Roman Catholic Church to
the extent that we insinuate it has.

694
01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:34.920
When we thumb our noses at Protestants
and say, now, what an amazing

695
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:42.640
admission from Tim that what's the underlying
issue in all of this, we've never

696
01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:49.840
gotten a clear dogmatic statement in the
Romancolic Church about authority. If that's true,

697
01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:55.479
then all of these selling points that
we've heard from the pop apologists over

698
01:11:55.520 --> 01:12:00.680
the years are not good selling points
because the very thing that's trying to profer

699
01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:05.600
to offer to sell their admitting is
not there. Oh well, you see

700
01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:12.039
again, Vatican three will define the
notion of authority appropriate to what's missing in

701
01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:17.479
Vatican one and Vatican two. The
purpose of Vatican one was, in fact

702
01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:28.039
to define the authority, the jurisdiction, the premissy, the power and the

703
01:12:28.159 --> 01:12:34.319
prerogatives of the Bishop of Rome.
But as we can see, there's a

704
01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:39.319
lot of struggle with this and why
is that? Well, what does Tim

705
01:12:39.399 --> 01:12:45.199
say at the beginning? Suffice it
to say this what Cardinal Couch said in

706
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:55.880
an interview when asked by Vatican News, is it possible to envision for the

707
01:12:55.960 --> 01:13:00.119
future a shared form of exercise of
the Petrine primacy over all Christians that is

708
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:06.520
separate from the Church's jurisdiction over the
Latin Church. He responded, Indeed,

709
01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:14.920
some ecumenical dialogues suggest a clearer distinction
between the different responsibilities of the Bishop of

710
01:13:15.039 --> 01:13:20.000
Rome, in particular what might be
called the Pope's patriarchal ministry within the Western

711
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:26.560
or Latin Church, and in his
primacial service of unity in the communion of

712
01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:33.680
all the churches, both Western and
Eastern, parish orphans and retrogrades. I

713
01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:40.479
will read the most important part as
far as I can ascertain it. Thus

714
01:13:40.520 --> 01:13:43.720
far of the study document to you, I've read part of the most important

715
01:13:43.760 --> 01:13:47.560
part. Will be reading further in
that most important part than I've been yet

716
01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:56.039
live. So I would initially lay
this thought on you. It's a preliminary

717
01:13:56.119 --> 01:14:00.239
thought and I'm still working through it. Always tell you, look, I'm

718
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:05.520
confident about X, I'm not sure
at all about why, or I'm pretty

719
01:14:05.560 --> 01:14:15.199
confident about Z. Jay Dyer has
long talked about for at least a year

720
01:14:15.199 --> 01:14:25.680
and a half a plan that has
semi secretly been held harbored close between the

721
01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:31.920
Eastern Orthodox leaders and Roman Catholic leaders
for a reunification in twenty twenty five,

722
01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:42.479
and even a document which attests to
this. Today's Vatican Steady Document seems to

723
01:14:44.800 --> 01:14:55.159
lend force to the notion that there
is a planned reunification in view. Maybe

724
01:14:55.199 --> 01:15:03.439
even immediate view, if Die is
right, and that religious doctrinal purity,

725
01:15:04.760 --> 01:15:13.520
whether from the RC side or the
EO side, is not the primary impetus

726
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:29.520
for the drafting of the document or
of the conceiving of In the fourth century,

727
01:15:29.680 --> 01:15:34.520
Emperor Constantine ended persecutions against Christians and
became a defender of the faith.

728
01:15:35.039 --> 01:15:40.479
Barely a decade later, he summoned
all bishops to Nicea in present day Turkey

729
01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:45.640
to clarify a controversial issue whether Jesus
was equal to the Father and therefore eternal.

730
01:15:46.119 --> 01:15:50.079
It was the year three twenty five. This was the first ecumenical council

731
01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:56.079
in history and where the Nicene creed
was established. Twenty twenty five will mark

732
01:15:56.199 --> 01:16:00.159
seventeen hundred years since that event,
and there is already an ecumenical event on

733
01:16:00.279 --> 01:16:05.840
the table that will include Pope Francis
and Patriarch told you, of course,

734
01:16:06.199 --> 01:16:14.119
Folomew, the leader of the Orthodox
Church Bartholemy, proposed to hold it in

735
01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:17.840
Nicea in present day Turkey. The
ruins of the first Ecumenical Senate are there.

736
01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:24.279
It is a significant event and preparations
have already begun. Initiatives are underway,

737
01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:30.000
speeches are being prepared together Patriarch Bartholomew
and Pope Francis have made multiple ecumenical

738
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:34.640
gestures. In twenty fourteen, when
Pope Francis visited the Holy Land to commemorate

739
01:16:34.720 --> 01:16:40.520
the meeting of his predecessors, the
idea of a great event to celebrate Nicia

740
01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:44.640
began to take shape. All right, So there's a lot on this.

741
01:16:44.760 --> 01:16:48.279
Who can go just google it.
There's a whole bunch on this. Now,

742
01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:56.119
it doesn't necessarily mean that this will
occur. It just means that they're

743
01:16:56.159 --> 01:17:02.159
floating this and pushing this. Right, So if they do continue to push

744
01:17:02.279 --> 01:17:06.720
this, really this will just cause
a schism in the Orthodox Church to where

745
01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:15.720
I don't know, like a percentage
of Libs who follow Bartholomew will run off

746
01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:23.399
to Francis. So maybe that'll happen. But they're gonna what they usually do

747
01:17:23.439 --> 01:17:27.079
with this kind of stuff is they
float the ideas and then they look to

748
01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:32.800
see how it tracks as to whether
they'll continue to do it anyway. So,

749
01:17:33.319 --> 01:17:36.079
I mean that's the essence of the
document. If you've not read the

750
01:17:36.199 --> 01:17:39.920
ones that I mentioned today, if
you really want to be studied on the

751
01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:43.640
issue, I highly recommend going and
reading on it. The New document is

752
01:17:44.800 --> 01:17:53.720
linked in the show description. It's
called the previously the Roman Bishop. We

753
01:17:53.840 --> 01:17:57.720
go back to the beginning of it. Good grief. There you go,

754
01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:02.800
Bishop of Rome, premacy and senidality
in the ecumenical dialogues and in the responses

755
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:09.079
to the encyclical um scent. I
highly recommend reading the Alexandria document here,

756
01:18:09.720 --> 01:18:14.520
highly recommend reading the Chi eighty document
and to really get a clear position of

757
01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:18.800
what the traditional Romancli view was.
I highly recommend reading them. Reading not

758
01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:25.039
just Unum sunk Them, but Pachindi, Dominici, gragias, lement of Billy

759
01:18:25.159 --> 01:18:30.439
San and Unam sunk them. Those
are all very relevant. We have a

760
01:18:30.600 --> 01:18:38.800
super chat from Noah said, does
the toll houses occur prior to death or

761
01:18:38.880 --> 01:18:44.199
after death? Toll houses refer to
the soul after death and the return to

762
01:18:44.279 --> 01:18:48.920
God in terms of leaving the body. Again, you should read the sur

763
01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:53.640
from Rose book and it's really good. Eugenia five dollars, thank you so

764
01:18:53.760 --> 01:18:57.079
much. Appreciate that snagglebs five dollars, Jay leave them alone, they're already

765
01:18:57.159 --> 01:19:03.039
dead. Well, I again appreciate
Tim's honesty here can tell I think these

766
01:19:03.079 --> 01:19:12.640
guys are really really wrestling with what's
admitted in the documents and the status of

767
01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:16.520
by the way, so pastor attorneys
is not the only thing in Vatican Like,

768
01:19:16.600 --> 01:19:20.039
there's more to Vatican One than pastor
returnis that's just a section that's about

769
01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:28.159
the pope, right, So there's
also the statements in Southeast Cognitium about the

770
01:19:28.600 --> 01:19:32.960
role of the papacy as well,
which are maybe not is equal to Vatican

771
01:19:33.039 --> 01:19:39.680
One, but they're authoritative interpretations of
the doctrine. So Saudi is Cognitium of

772
01:19:39.800 --> 01:19:43.800
Leo the thirteenth also matters quite a
bit as well, and also read more

773
01:19:43.840 --> 01:19:46.840
talium animos, because it's one of
the clearest contradictions that I can think of,

774
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:53.640
where you have, essentially nineteen twenty
eight the condemnation of inter quote Christian

775
01:19:54.279 --> 01:20:01.119
religious services, and how much worse
would it be to have religious uh ceremonious

776
01:20:01.239 --> 01:20:12.840
with Muslims, Hindus, Jews,
Buddhist like Francis did two weeks ago.

777
01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:30.199
Ricky, Yeah, So I wanted
to ask, where where does a Vatican

778
01:20:30.279 --> 01:20:36.239
once say that you can't say Rome
is like as privacy because of both Peter

779
01:20:36.319 --> 01:20:41.199
and Paul, or is it just
like not explicit just saying it's Peter.

780
01:20:43.359 --> 01:20:47.600
Uh. It explicitly condemns the position
that if you say that the Roman pontiff

781
01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:57.479
derives his power and his authority from
Peter Ample. That's an explicit statement.

782
01:20:57.720 --> 01:21:06.800
I think it's somewhere, let me
see. It might be in Denzinger.

783
01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:12.279
I haven't looked at this in a
while, but it does condemn the idea

784
01:21:12.399 --> 01:21:16.079
that it's a power that comes that's
shared and you have to say it's only

785
01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:21.760
for repeater when you said it might
it might be Insaide's cognitiom. I'm not

786
01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:30.439
sure. I haven't looked at it
a long time. Yeah. Another one

787
01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:40.199
of the good quotes from the fourth
Laddering Council. It says that, wishing

788
01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:44.840
therefore to remove such a great scandal
from God's Church, we strict the order

789
01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:49.399
on the advice of this sacred Council. Uh, that henceforth they do not

790
01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:55.159
presume to do such things, but
rather conform themselves like obedient sons to the

791
01:21:55.199 --> 01:22:00.680
Holy Roman Church their mother. So
that's all. Also another contradiction as to

792
01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:09.199
what Frances is saying, because he's
now doing like this brotherly thing, when

793
01:22:09.279 --> 01:22:13.640
in the past it was the mentality
that they had to, you know,

794
01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:23.399
submit like like sons to the supreme
authority of right. So I just wanted

795
01:22:23.439 --> 01:22:30.199
to point that out. And another
question that you did touch on about you

796
01:22:30.239 --> 01:22:38.600
know that these are just like the
the arguments that are being presented. So

797
01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:42.439
the main thing would be that,
I mean, in the new document that

798
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:45.680
just came out, the main thing
would be that, you know, this

799
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:51.760
simply isn't like the Vatican one church
mindset anymore, Right, That's basically the

800
01:22:51.840 --> 01:23:00.840
whole argument. Yeah, okay,
Now, there's also anathemas that are part

801
01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:10.239
of Vatican One, and if you
have the Little Ten Books version, it

802
01:23:10.359 --> 01:23:14.560
has them. So sometimes these things
are hard to find because they're not always

803
01:23:16.039 --> 01:23:23.199
immediately accessible online. But like I
know that the The Ten Books version of

804
01:23:23.279 --> 01:23:27.359
Vatican One has the Vatican one anathemas. I don't see the anathemas on the

805
01:23:27.399 --> 01:23:30.279
Papal Encyclicals website. So let me
let me look for a second here.

806
01:23:31.399 --> 01:23:35.319
Yeah, I got pastor atturnis does
it have the anathemas in it? I

807
01:23:35.359 --> 01:23:41.399
can't remember. They have some of
them, not like outlined, put in

808
01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:45.680
the paragraphs, and they don't have
it in English in their website, so

809
01:23:45.880 --> 01:23:51.199
you just have to translate it from
the Latin really, Yeah, and so

810
01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:57.640
one of the last things that it
says, it says, these definitions of

811
01:23:57.680 --> 01:24:02.439
the Roman pontiff are immute in themselves
and not by the consent of the Church.

812
01:24:02.760 --> 01:24:06.199
Yeah, yes, exactly. That
was the text that I was saying

813
01:24:06.279 --> 01:24:11.840
that that's the one that condemns the
idea that the pope in any way requires

814
01:24:12.159 --> 01:24:16.840
reciprocity from the College of Bishops.
Yeah. And so I was reading Statis

815
01:24:16.920 --> 01:24:25.560
cognita and yesterday, and it says
that he has authority over each individual bishop,

816
01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:30.319
but not when you know, all
the bishops collectively oppose the pope.

817
01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:40.199
And so I was kind of wondering
how that would actually work, and and

818
01:24:40.359 --> 01:24:45.239
if it's a contradiction. So that's
also another question. So what do you

819
01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:49.319
think about that? By the way, I think this is the text that

820
01:24:49.359 --> 01:24:55.720
I'm remembering that has it's this book
from Tan Dogmatic Canons and decrees of the

821
01:24:55.760 --> 01:25:00.159
Council of Trent and Vatican one,
plus the decree in the Maculate Conception and

822
01:25:00.199 --> 01:25:05.600
the errors of errors it might be
in even in the Syllabus of errors.

823
01:25:06.359 --> 01:25:10.600
Let me see that one, because
that one, I think mentions Peter and

824
01:25:10.640 --> 01:25:15.960
Paul, what was your question again, I'm sorry that Sati's Cognitium says that

825
01:25:16.119 --> 01:25:23.960
the pope has authority over each bishop
individually, but not like if the bishops

826
01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:30.399
collectively decide to go against the pope. So I don't know exactly how they

827
01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:35.119
square that, since it's the pope
who decides, you know what, you

828
01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:41.880
can actually disagree with. So that's
a good point. I don't know.

829
01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:48.680
Yeah, So, so I guess
that was kind of like making a bit

830
01:25:48.760 --> 01:25:58.800
of a you know, historical reference
to something like Vigilius maybe, But yeah,

831
01:25:58.880 --> 01:26:04.239
that's just something that seems impossible for
it to happen, even though they

832
01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:08.359
say it can. I forgot about
the syllabus of errors. This is a

833
01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:16.439
whole other document with a whole host
of condemned propositions too. Are you linking

834
01:26:16.560 --> 01:26:26.439
linking those? I'm looking at them
right now. Okay, all right,

835
01:26:26.520 --> 01:26:29.880
that's fine, appreciate your time.
Yeah, I would like to find that

836
01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:39.079
that one text though, where it
says that you cannot say that the premiacy

837
01:26:39.159 --> 01:26:43.560
of Rome is in any way contingent
upon Peter and Paul, which is ironic

838
01:26:43.600 --> 01:26:45.800
because it's the very argument that Irenas
makes. So they try to use that

839
01:26:46.239 --> 01:26:54.560
Arnas text where Arnaus uses Rome as
an example of absolute succession. But Ieronaas

840
01:26:54.560 --> 01:26:58.439
says that it's great because of Peter
and Paul. But it's either Sati's cognitium

841
01:26:58.520 --> 01:27:04.199
or it's one of the Vatican one
statements. And you specifically cannot say that

842
01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:14.800
I think it's a condemned statement in
the anathemas, because actually Vatican one has

843
01:27:16.800 --> 01:27:19.960
anathemas. Let's see it says,
you can download the pdf. Let's see

844
01:27:19.960 --> 01:27:28.039
if this works. Do we have
any nerds in the chat that can recall

845
01:27:28.119 --> 01:27:31.279
that tel of her head? Let's
see dogmatic decrease. Let's see. Here

846
01:27:31.359 --> 01:27:44.520
we go decrees the Vatican Council,
pages two eleven to two fifty seven.

847
01:27:49.119 --> 01:28:06.920
That's way too big. Okay,
here's the beginning of Vatican One. Jesus

848
01:28:08.239 --> 01:28:14.640
promised to Peter directly by divine institution, that he had full plenary power over

849
01:28:14.720 --> 01:28:20.720
the entire church. It is what
is proven by like three classic passages.

850
01:28:21.720 --> 01:28:27.800
And then here we go, here's
the canons. If anyone therefore, I'll

851
01:28:27.800 --> 01:28:31.800
say that Peter was not appointed prince
the apostles let him be anathema. Okay,

852
01:28:32.079 --> 01:28:38.319
that's what the new document says.
So does you know what does the

853
01:28:38.399 --> 01:28:44.119
Papal and Cyclicals version does even have
the anathemas. I didn't even see the

854
01:28:44.119 --> 01:29:14.119
anathemas on that one. Let's see
I don't. So this is laid out

855
01:29:14.239 --> 01:29:18.399
totally different from this one. Okay, so let's see if we can find

856
01:29:18.439 --> 01:29:32.960
it. Whoever succeeds Peter has the
exact same powers as Peter. If anyone

857
01:29:33.039 --> 01:29:39.560
shall say that it is not by
the institution of Christ, by divine right,

858
01:29:40.039 --> 01:29:43.920
that the perpetual successor to Peter have
that universal premiacy, let him be

859
01:29:43.960 --> 01:29:47.520
anathema. So you notice that you
don't see these anathemas in a lot of

860
01:29:47.560 --> 01:30:00.800
these translations. If anyone shall say
the Roman Pontiff has the office merely of

861
01:30:00.880 --> 01:30:08.359
inspection and not full supreme power of
jurisdiction over every pastor of the church,

862
01:30:08.479 --> 01:30:20.439
let him be anathema. Next section
infallibility. Finally, it restates the Council

863
01:30:20.439 --> 01:30:26.159
of Florence, the Roman Pontif is
the vicar of Christ. Let's see,

864
01:30:40.920 --> 01:30:46.840
Holy Spirit has promised this to Peter. The gift then of never failing faith

865
01:30:47.039 --> 01:30:51.720
was conferred upon Peter and his successors. That's indefectibility. That means that they

866
01:30:51.800 --> 01:30:58.000
cannot teach error. That's the point
we always make there. It is directly

867
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:03.800
in the older translation Novatican one.
Here we go. Here's what that guy

868
01:31:03.960 --> 01:31:08.079
was just saying. The Roman Pontiff, when he speaks to Ex Cathedra,

869
01:31:09.279 --> 01:31:13.600
is the discharging the office of pastorn
teacher of all Christians by supreme authority.

870
01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:20.199
He possesses that infalliability from Christ.
And therefore the definitions of the Roman Pontiff

871
01:31:20.560 --> 01:31:30.119
are irreformable. Excuse me, not
irreformable. On faith and morals are themselves

872
01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:33.760
from the Roman Pontiff infallible and not
by the consent of the Church, and

873
01:31:33.960 --> 01:31:42.199
are irreformable. So there's that.
If anyone presumed to contradict this, he

874
01:31:42.319 --> 01:31:49.520
is anathema. That is, you're
out of the church. I know there's

875
01:31:49.560 --> 01:31:55.479
a statement that he doesn't derive it
from Peter and Paul, and that you

876
01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:58.640
can't say that it's from Peter M. Paul. So I don't know if

877
01:31:58.640 --> 01:32:04.119
I missed it or what. But
Luigi will remember that reference if he's in

878
01:32:04.239 --> 01:32:12.279
here. Luigi, are you in
here? If you're in here, you

879
01:32:12.359 --> 01:32:18.600
can remind you where that is.
Let's see. Here's more anathemas. Let's

880
01:32:18.600 --> 01:32:38.760
see, because those are canons about
the creation and reason. That's not it.

881
01:33:01.600 --> 01:33:23.159
Maybe it's actually a pastor returns.
Let's see, Kah. I don't

882
01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:50.239
want the abridged version. It's just
Latin. They don't make it very easy

883
01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:54.960
to find their documents, you know
what I mean. It's like, why

884
01:33:55.000 --> 01:33:58.920
why wouldn't this be easy to find? If you know this is? Maybe

885
01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:00.640
they were embarrassed to that someone.
They don't want people looking it up.

886
01:34:03.600 --> 01:34:27.359
Christian, what's up? I'm mute, dude. You got to unmutement right

887
01:34:27.399 --> 01:34:30.319
there. I can't hear you or
you dropped off, so it's open for

888
01:34:30.399 --> 01:34:38.920
him if anybody else wants to call
ink? Is it cutting out the live

889
01:34:38.960 --> 01:34:55.359
stream? Innocent condemned, the innocent, the tenth condemned. The proposition is

890
01:34:55.439 --> 01:34:58.760
that what it is? I know
it's in Danzinger. I don't have Danzinger

891
01:34:58.840 --> 01:35:00.560
with me, so I can't look
it up. It's at the other house.

892
01:35:02.119 --> 01:35:05.159
Luigi's in the chat. Do you
know that reference Luigi where it's at?

893
01:35:05.880 --> 01:35:10.640
Off the top of my head,
I'm not sure. Yes, I

894
01:35:10.720 --> 01:35:19.960
am looking at the chat. Did
it cut out? I can't tell if

895
01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:27.920
you guys can see you or not. Maybe I should have looked up Denzinger.

896
01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:45.800
That's it. Yeah, it's Denzinger. Okay, Innocent that the tenth

897
01:35:45.880 --> 01:35:48.800
condemned. Saint Peter and Paul are
the two princes of the Church who amount

898
01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:54.640
to one or that highest to tenth
in the letter X quote No, No,

899
01:35:54.920 --> 01:36:00.800
Denzinger, nineteen ninety nine. This
isn't a renewal of an error condemned

900
01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:02.880
a long time ago by Innocent the
tent that Paul is to be considered the

901
01:36:03.039 --> 01:36:06.640
brother the equal of Peter. There
we go, thank you so, Denzinger,

902
01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:13.960
nineteen ninety nine. Denzinger three five
five five. These are considered to

903
01:36:14.039 --> 01:36:19.359
be heretical propositions. It's also restated
though somewhere in the later So it is

904
01:36:21.199 --> 01:36:30.680
Holy Office condemnation in Denzinger by Innocent
the tenth. But it's also restated somewhere

905
01:36:30.720 --> 01:36:34.359
else in relationship too, because it
re emerges as a question at the time

906
01:36:34.439 --> 01:36:44.199
Aboutican one. Here's somebody writing an
article on it. Okay, okay,

907
01:36:44.279 --> 01:36:47.720
So the statement in Trent that says
it was to Peter alone that Jesus after

908
01:36:47.800 --> 01:36:55.720
his resurrection said feed my sheep.
That's stating that it's not Peter and Paul.

909
01:36:58.279 --> 01:37:09.800
And then session four directly to Peter
Session four four directly to Peter Denzinger

910
01:37:09.880 --> 01:37:21.840
ten ninety one and Denzinger ten ninety
one again. Anyway, so there's the

911
01:37:23.359 --> 01:37:26.880
thank you to whoever put that out
of the chat. I appreciate that I

912
01:37:26.920 --> 01:37:29.239
don't have Denzinger here. I mean, I guess I could try to look

913
01:37:29.279 --> 01:37:31.760
it up online, but my Dnzinger
is in Tennessee. So I wanta have

914
01:37:31.760 --> 01:37:35.680
it with me. Uh trollo mechicano
five dollars. Let god arise, let

915
01:37:35.760 --> 01:37:40.520
us mendv scattered, Let those the
agent flee before his face exactly. I

916
01:37:40.520 --> 01:37:45.039
don't say any more questions anybody that
I have any other disputes issues. Reminder

917
01:37:45.600 --> 01:37:48.600
that we do have an amazing sponsor. You guys please support the show by

918
01:37:48.640 --> 01:37:53.319
heading over to chalk dot com.
I'm gonna put you on something crazy real

919
01:37:53.439 --> 01:37:59.159
quick. Most of these zoomer Jimbros
are consuming macro guzzling synthetic dies and synthetic

920
01:37:59.239 --> 01:38:02.439
sweetness on the daily. They don't
even know it. Goofy af. There's

921
01:38:02.520 --> 01:38:06.319
nothing great about that. Do not
listen any further unless you are an alpha

922
01:38:06.520 --> 01:38:11.399
or Sigma male. This is important
and there could be consequences. There's a

923
01:38:11.479 --> 01:38:15.600
new certified Sigma Male pre workout powder
for Sigmas only. It is guaranteed to

924
01:38:15.680 --> 01:38:20.359
empower you to dominate your co workers, fire your boss, aggressively, gamble,

925
01:38:20.760 --> 01:38:26.119
or invade a small village. I'm
not trying to be like a post

926
01:38:26.119 --> 01:38:30.520
planner, bro, I'm not a
RECOMMENCD. I'm not worried. I'm not

927
01:38:30.600 --> 01:38:34.039
afraid of or worried about any objections. So you can make whatever objection you

928
01:38:34.079 --> 01:38:36.720
want, for sure, for sure. Yeah. No, I was we

929
01:38:36.800 --> 01:38:41.319
were kind of like going back and
forth a little bit, like because I'm

930
01:38:41.359 --> 01:38:45.199
looking at section nine, page eight
of the document and it just seemed like

931
01:38:45.279 --> 01:38:49.479
I'm some of my Roman Catholic bros. Are basically saying like a like,

932
01:38:49.640 --> 01:38:53.279
hold on, hold on, can
you tell me the paragraph where that one

933
01:38:53.399 --> 01:38:56.119
is? Yeah? Yeah, for
sure, yeah, section nine, page

934
01:38:56.199 --> 01:39:00.479
eight of the document from the like
Christian Unity Document. I don't know if

935
01:39:00.479 --> 01:39:03.720
there's like different page numbers on different
sites. Hold on, hold on,

936
01:39:03.760 --> 01:39:12.840
I'm going to it, Okay,
I got you go ahead. Yeah.

937
01:39:12.920 --> 01:39:16.000
Yeah. So they're basically saying,
like, what this the purpose of this

938
01:39:16.239 --> 01:39:23.760
document is this synthesis between other Christian
communions. It's like kind of like I

939
01:39:23.920 --> 01:39:28.079
was, like I was saying like
if are the example that I used or

940
01:39:28.119 --> 01:39:31.399
the analogy, like if I was
the head of some company or something that

941
01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:39.159
wanted to get a summation of all
of like the alphabet people's incoherent like position,

942
01:39:39.720 --> 01:39:41.920
and then it's like, oh,
okay, hey, well we want

943
01:39:41.920 --> 01:39:44.399
to dialogue with those You want to
say, those people get them baptized.

944
01:39:45.840 --> 01:39:50.159
Let me let's summarize all of their
arguments in an effort to I don't know,

945
01:39:50.560 --> 01:39:55.399
somehow reunified down the road. But
that doesn't necessarily mean that me,

946
01:39:55.920 --> 01:40:00.319
as the head of this organization that
summarized or synthesized all of their here in

947
01:40:00.439 --> 01:40:04.439
arguments are in agreement with their arguments
or exactly what they're saying, So that

948
01:40:04.600 --> 01:40:10.600
that's what I'm hearing from like the
from like the Catholic side, So that

949
01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:13.680
I mean, like, what do
you think specifically about like section nine here

950
01:40:13.840 --> 01:40:16.399
and exactly like as far as like
the purpose of this document, yeah,

951
01:40:16.439 --> 01:40:19.119
I mean, and to be fair, it does say that this is a

952
01:40:19.279 --> 01:40:26.000
quote harvesting of their fruits of the
recent ecumenical dialogues, but harvesting of their

953
01:40:26.079 --> 01:40:30.359
fruits, the whole purpose of ecumenical
dialogue is reunion. The very end of

954
01:40:30.399 --> 01:40:34.039
the document says that, So the
document saying that the purpose of this document

955
01:40:34.600 --> 01:40:40.800
is to find ways to reinterpret Vatican
One, because that's the chief problem.

956
01:40:40.800 --> 01:40:44.319
I mean, if it wasn't about
that, then why does the document since

957
01:40:44.359 --> 01:40:46.880
spend so much time on Vatican One, right, Because that's the chief problem.

958
01:40:47.319 --> 01:40:53.359
And then the document ends with talking
about new ways to try to find

959
01:40:53.600 --> 01:40:58.079
new types of communion with non Catholics. So, I mean, it's fine

960
01:40:58.119 --> 01:41:01.920
to say that this is a dogma
and we're not saying that this is the

961
01:41:01.960 --> 01:41:05.800
official position of the Roman Callot Church. But it doesn't really matter because,

962
01:41:05.840 --> 01:41:11.439
like I was pointing out, really
if Francis is affirming this, and it's

963
01:41:11.479 --> 01:41:16.760
not just this document, this is
restating what's in Chiad and the Alexandria document.

964
01:41:16.920 --> 01:41:20.560
So it's like this is the third
time that we've had a statement.

965
01:41:20.600 --> 01:41:26.880
I mean, do you agree that
Chiady and Alexandria are statements of the Roman

966
01:41:26.920 --> 01:41:30.159
Calolic Church or not? Yeah?
No, absolutely, absolutely, I have

967
01:41:30.319 --> 01:41:32.720
no I have no disagreement about about
those two documents. I think they can

968
01:41:32.800 --> 01:41:39.119
see quite a bit. But it
just it seems like even if like what

969
01:41:39.359 --> 01:41:43.920
this, it seems like in like
I don't know, some Lutheran could have

970
01:41:44.800 --> 01:41:48.079
like basically pull different quotes from what
the Pope is saying and different things,

971
01:41:48.199 --> 01:41:51.920
and and and and then the Vatican
comes and puts all this together. So

972
01:41:53.119 --> 01:41:57.119
it doesn't and I can't. I
sound like really a lot like a post

973
01:41:57.199 --> 01:42:00.359
leiner, but like it just it
I can see how you can read this

974
01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:04.800
in such a way, whereas it's
like this it to be helpful. The

975
01:42:04.880 --> 01:42:10.760
Vatican is going to summarize this in
a way and put it together to be

976
01:42:10.960 --> 01:42:13.920
used in the future. And I
yeah, but the summer it's not just

977
01:42:14.039 --> 01:42:16.800
a summary. It's also a bunch
of admissions. I mean, if it

978
01:42:16.920 --> 01:42:20.720
was just it's not just a summary
of the debate bro arguments, right,

979
01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:25.880
like I might say, I'm going
to go and collect all the quote minds

980
01:42:26.239 --> 01:42:29.760
of the Protestants against the Orthodox.
Okay, yeah, I mean, I

981
01:42:29.840 --> 01:42:33.039
mean that's not what this document.
It's not that's this document is not only

982
01:42:33.159 --> 01:42:36.439
that. It's partly that, but
it's not only that. It's also saying

983
01:42:38.439 --> 01:42:43.399
what are the ways that we can
reword Vatican want? But from the perspective

984
01:42:43.479 --> 01:42:46.840
of home though, like because I
can I can see what they're from the

985
01:42:46.880 --> 01:42:53.800
perspective of of no one in Roman
Catholic theology can't reword Vatican one. How

986
01:42:54.880 --> 01:42:57.920
is that even? In other words, the fact that that's even being discussed

987
01:42:58.479 --> 01:43:02.279
isn't even possible. If you're rolling, I don't disagree with you at all,

988
01:43:02.359 --> 01:43:06.880
but like it's still like from from
which perspective are we saying we the

989
01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:11.880
only way we can reunify is every
we word Vatican one. It's it may

990
01:43:12.039 --> 01:43:16.279
it's not necessarily the Vatican. Like
did you not did you read the document?

991
01:43:17.399 --> 01:43:20.600
I haven't read every single page.
Okay, so it quotes ratsing or

992
01:43:20.680 --> 01:43:27.079
saying we must we mustn't require of
the Orthodox anything more than what was the

993
01:43:27.199 --> 01:43:38.079
norm in the first thousand years.
Yep, yeah, I don't Yeah,

994
01:43:38.359 --> 01:43:40.600
yeah, I have no no,
no argument. I mean, look,

995
01:43:40.840 --> 01:43:43.720
there's a lot of different things in
this document. So it does have a

996
01:43:43.760 --> 01:43:47.800
lot of citations of the ecumenical dialogues, and I understand that citing those arguments

997
01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:53.000
does not mean the Vatican is saying
that that's true. But there's more than

998
01:43:53.119 --> 01:43:57.119
just sighting the arguments. There are
many admissions in the document where they do

999
01:43:57.359 --> 01:44:00.800
say that we can grant this,
we can agree to that. Chad was

1000
01:44:00.880 --> 01:44:05.920
right here, Alexander document was right
here. Those are admissions. So regardless

1001
01:44:06.000 --> 01:44:10.560
of the status of this document,
if Francis signs off on this, we

1002
01:44:10.800 --> 01:44:16.039
just read in the decrees the Vatican
I that the Roman bishop cannot approve error

1003
01:44:16.119 --> 01:44:23.640
and he's indefectible, So how could
he approve things like Chiady and Alexandria that

1004
01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:30.520
clearly deny Vatican One. I mean, let's take the statement that the document

1005
01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:39.880
said, for example, that it
is possible to read Vatican one in a

1006
01:44:39.960 --> 01:44:45.520
way such that Jesus did not grant
directly to Peter universal jurisdiction by divine right.

1007
01:44:45.279 --> 01:44:49.159
I mean, that was the one
that I put on on Twitter to

1008
01:44:49.239 --> 01:44:57.279
you, and it says it says
this was our working group, the Working

1009
01:44:57.279 --> 01:45:01.319
group Ecumenical Working Group's view in nineteen
ninety one. The Vatican said this is

1010
01:45:01.319 --> 01:45:04.439
a little too far, but then
the CDF said it is possible to read

1011
01:45:04.439 --> 01:45:09.479
it that way. I mean,
is that not a concession to the fact

1012
01:45:09.520 --> 01:45:15.239
that it's admitting that that's a contradiction
with Vatican one? Yeah? Yeah,

1013
01:45:15.359 --> 01:45:20.239
I Like I feel like if like
twenty twenty five they come out and start

1014
01:45:20.399 --> 01:45:26.039
like quoting this document until that happens. Okay, but don't you think there's

1015
01:45:26.039 --> 01:45:28.279
a I mean, look, there's
a purpose upon each of these documents.

1016
01:45:28.359 --> 01:45:31.800
Right, so you've got you've got
all of these documents in sequence, and

1017
01:45:31.880 --> 01:45:39.720
they're all being cited in this master
document. And I mean you could even

1018
01:45:39.760 --> 01:45:42.439
if you want to take that route, then okay, Look, I'll just

1019
01:45:42.479 --> 01:45:45.640
say that Alexandria and Chiadi are strong. Let's just throw out this document.

1020
01:45:45.640 --> 01:45:51.319
It's basically restating what's in those So
is the Alexandria document not basically emitting our

1021
01:45:51.399 --> 01:45:57.479
point? It seems to be the
case. Yeah, so you can do

1022
01:45:57.560 --> 01:46:00.800
Okay, even if you read this
as just a restatement of those two documents,

1023
01:46:00.880 --> 01:46:05.479
like to me, it's still it
still makes the point. Sure,

1024
01:46:05.560 --> 01:46:09.079
sure, Well, I appreciate your
time, man, And yeah, I

1025
01:46:09.119 --> 01:46:12.399
mean, and I appreciate the objection. I like that you you know,

1026
01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:16.439
had had a reasonable non angry objection. But I mean, yeah, I

1027
01:46:16.520 --> 01:46:23.960
mean the purpose of these sequential synodal
statements is precisely where they want to go.

1028
01:46:24.119 --> 01:46:26.479
Now, that doesn't mean they're going
to do this in twenty twenty five.

1029
01:46:27.199 --> 01:46:30.119
I mean I think that they're going
to test the waters to see if

1030
01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:32.119
they think, you know, people
will go along with this, or will

1031
01:46:32.279 --> 01:46:36.600
be like a you know, large
scale reaction against it. But I appreciate

1032
01:46:36.640 --> 01:46:40.520
those objections. I think they're you
know, that's a fair, fair objection,

1033
01:46:40.720 --> 01:46:58.079
Christian. I mean it's like that
statement that tim right from Cardinal Coke,

1034
01:46:58.199 --> 01:47:01.560
right when Cardinal Coke was explaining what
this document's about. He says,

1035
01:47:01.960 --> 01:47:08.720
yeah, it's a way to find
an ecumenical settlement for Orthodox and non Catholics

1036
01:47:08.800 --> 01:47:13.640
to accept the papacy and still remain
Orthodox and non Catholic. I mean,

1037
01:47:13.680 --> 01:47:16.760
Cardinal coch says, that's what this
document's about. Well, he doesn't count.

1038
01:47:16.800 --> 01:47:18.319
Blah blah blah. Go ahead,
man, you got it. I'm

1039
01:47:18.359 --> 01:47:26.640
mute, Christian, I'm you.
Hey, Jay, it's Christian. I

1040
01:47:26.720 --> 01:47:30.239
think I appreciate you. I just
want to send you my love. Also,

1041
01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:33.960
I want to you know, capitalize
on the fact that I you know,

1042
01:47:34.159 --> 01:47:39.760
sometimes after you know, I think
it's some products, some green products.

1043
01:47:39.920 --> 01:47:43.000
Uh, you know, I'd get
like a little bit into watching The

1044
01:47:43.079 --> 01:47:47.880
Simpsons, and I just want to
say that the like the Springfield isotopes thing,

1045
01:47:49.239 --> 01:47:54.800
the symbol of the whole city is
like the little the Springfield isotope thing,

1046
01:47:54.920 --> 01:47:58.640
right, So it's like a Jewish
symbol of you of you, well,

1047
01:47:58.720 --> 01:48:00.880
the whole Like it's like an did
you know that by giving to our

1048
01:48:01.000 --> 01:48:05.720
campaign earlier? We're talking about I'm
not trying to be mean to you,

1049
01:48:05.880 --> 01:48:10.439
but what are you talking about?
Man? We're talking about the document from

1050
01:48:10.479 --> 01:48:16.119
the papacy. We're not talking about
the symbols and the Simpsons. So let's

1051
01:48:16.159 --> 01:48:20.680
go back to remember, how does
the Cardinal Coke tell us that the purpose

1052
01:48:20.720 --> 01:48:26.520
of this document, what's the purpose
of it? Is it possible to envision

1053
01:48:28.000 --> 01:48:31.640
for the future a shared form of
exercise of the petrine primacy over all Christendom

1054
01:48:32.239 --> 01:48:36.640
that is separate from the Church's jurisdiction
over the Latin Church. That's the purpose

1055
01:48:36.720 --> 01:48:44.920
responded indeed, so there you go. Cardinal Coke is telling you the purpose

1056
01:48:44.960 --> 01:48:47.199
of the document. It's the very
thing that we're saying. No, I

1057
01:48:47.279 --> 01:48:53.239
don't kill it mean that anyway.
I don't see anybody else popping on for

1058
01:48:53.359 --> 01:48:55.159
the topic. You can't. I
don't care about