And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is a triangle. You
know, there's extrelation for everything that occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It
doesn't involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over
our heads. Classic Clny Soulcier, really stunning into clearing. He turned over
to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and
said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.
We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on podcast ufo dot com.
During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello and
welcome to the first show of the year. I'm Martin Willis, your host,
and we have a good one for you this evening. We have repeat
guests, author of The Stocking of the Herd as well as some other books
on the mysterious San Luis Valley, Christopher O'Brien, and we'll be talking about
subjects of his books. Plus we're going to talk about some ancient, possibly
extraterrestrial depictions in art and a lot more. Before our guests, we have
Alejandro Rojas coming up with the UFO News in just a few minutes, and
I have to mention this for a while unfortunately, So pardon me if you've
heard this a couple of times already, but if you've not been able to
tune in for the last few weeks. Our shows are now live on podcast
ufo dot com, and we'll be from now on. It's possible we may
be going on also at the same time on another network, but we're no
longer on the Dark Matter Digital Network, not live, that is, we
are in a new time slot which will be recorded shows as the show here
will be on Thursdays at nine to eleven pm Eastern Standard time, which I
believe is six to eight unless I'm getting that wrong Pacific time. And I
want to give a quick shout out to Keith rolland he's not listening because this
is a prerecorded show when it's on his site. So but Keith Roland put
together the Dark Matter Digital Network and brought me on as one of the I
think I'm the longest lasting show that was on his network live and it's been
really, really great. He put in a lot of hard work of two
plus years in the making to build that up for Art Bell who had to
leave. And I will tell you it's not the end of the network.
Heather Wade is in Art Bell's driver's seat. She's doing a good job in
my opinion, and you can still listen to Midnight in the Desert with all
the great guests over there, but it would be Heatherwade doing the interviewing.
Art may step in now and then, but no promises for that. All
right, So on this website, don't forget too while you're listening live,
that is, to jump into the chat room. You can join in the
conversation on the site, or you can pose questions for the guests. And
we also take calls after the first half hour. And you may want to
write this down. That's six h three nine six seven four h three h
The show is always one hundred percent free when it's live, so keep that
in mind. And it's going to be possibly on another network as well,
as I mentioned before. I will update you on that later. If you're
listening as a podcast, the first hour is always free, and I will
talk more about sporting show at the end of the first hour for the hour
listeners. So how are you Alejandro? I am doing well? How are
you great? And before we get into the news, I want to talk
about this great show. I think it's a great show that you and Lee
Spiegel and I did on a Year twenty fifteen in review and that is available
on Open Minds dot tv as well as on this blog scroll on podcast UFO
dot com. I think that was a great show. I really really had
a lot of fun. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's always
fun to review the cases to debate them. I think that's part of the
fun, is to debate with your friends. You know, people you can
disagree with and sometimes you know, just have different points of view, but
still be able to discuss in a civil manner and have fun. And it's
always really fun to look back at the stories of the year because there's always
incredible stories that you've forgotten. Yeah, I was. I was surprised because
I worked on this for I don't know, like a week or so,
just diving through old stories. I really didn't realize how much went on last
year. It was actually quite a bit. M Yeah. And you know,
once it gets like six months old, it gets jumbled in your mind.
Did that happen in twenty twenty fourteen. Earlier in twenty fifteen. You
know, it's hard to remember when something took place, at least for me
in my aging mind. But so it's really cool to look back and go,
hey, man, that happened in twenty fifteen. Cool. It deserves
more attention, and it's fun to be able to do those shows and bring
focus back on some of these cool things that happened. Yeah, it's it's
really amazing how a lot of things like we're interwoven with things that are going
on right now. And I think that's a story we're going to talk about
right exactly, all right, So why don't we Can you start out with
that story? I think that's a really an amazing for sure. I was
planning on starting it because I have a couple other sightings not as exciting to
talk about if you want, but yeah, of course they're on the site.
But this one, like you said, weaves into so much of what
happened this year, and it's kind of perfect that it happened at the end
of twenty fifteen. And that is this comment by Hillary Clinton. A few
weird and interesting comments by Hillary Clinton. So she visited the editorial board of
the Conway Daily Sun, and they are in Conway, New Hampshire, which
is only forty minutes from where I sit. By the way, you're kidding,
No, I know she was over there meeting. Too bad you weren't
there. You been the UFO expert. I would have jumped right on that.
Yeah, so she was there. I guess she had been there before
answering questions. And at the end of the meeting, one of the guys,
Damon Steer was his name, a reporter decided to ask her about UFOs.
He wrote that in their editorial board meeting in two thousand and seven that
Clinton had visited and that he had asked her some UFO questions and she seemed
to have fun, you know, joking around and talking to him about it.
So when he said he wanted to ask her UFO questions just last week,
she said, yes, I'm gonna get to the bottom of it,
meaning that she's going to get to the bottom of UFOs, which, of
course it's so this conversation started off pretty interesting. Steers then asked her some
questions about her husband's twenty fourteen April twenty fourteen appearance on Jimmy Kimmel Live and
Of course, many of the listeners will remember that Jimmy Kimmel asked Clinton about
UFOs, he had some really funny things to say. In fact, he
started it off, I probably wouldn't even finish the oath. I would run
to the White House. I demand to see all the class Fight files had
Did you do that? I loved Obama's answer when he asked him that.
He said, that is why you will never be president. But it's pretty
funny. Yeah, Bill Clinton says he sort of did. And he goes
on to talk about he looked into roswell An Area fifty one and really didn't
find much kind of interesting, and then he just talked about extraterrestrial life and
things like that. So Steers said, you know, what about this?
What about what Clinton said looking into you and Steph And Hillary responded, I
think we may have been visited already, we don't know for sure. So
she said, yeah, we've been visited by aliens essentially, which is really
an amazing comment for our president's wife, even if you know, long retired
and she was not doing anything at all, it's still for her president's wife
or former president's wife, I should say, and possibly a future president it's
quite a statement. She also said she would look into Area fifty one.
Steers does say that she called an area fifty four before correcting herself later on.
And then she said that my chairman, it's well known that he's into
UFOs, and that being John Podesta, the chairman of her campaign. He
was also Bill Clinton's chief of staff and a counselor to President Obama. But
she said, you know, he's really into UFOs. And her quote was,
he has made me personally. Heedge, we are going to get the
information out one way or another. Maybe we could have like a task force
to go to Area fifty one. So those were her statements. Lee Spiegel
asked her, or asked Steers about his conversation, and he said, you
know, was this you know what she joking around? And Steers said,
yeah, the converse in the conversation, she was just having fun and it
was a lighthearted conversation. However, Steers wrote to Spiegel that given her relationship
with Podesta and her husband's track record, that she might be sincere about moving
forward on UFO disclosures. So, yeah, an interesting conversation. And here's
another little titbit that happened Podesta is known for tweeting about UFOs. That's kind
of how he knows. He's known about UFOs, and he's kind of even
since he started with Hillary's campaign. The day he's left Bomba's campaign and went
to Hillary's campaign, which was in February of twenty fifteen, he said his
biggest failure of twenty fourteen was not securing the disclosure of UFO files. Then
he tweeted in September after Hillary Clinton had a Dune an interview with Lena Dunham,
he's a great interview, but Lena asked her about aliens next time.
And just yesterday in response to I think in response to Lee Spiegel's story,
because a writer for Bloomberg Politics, Jennifer Epstein, tweeted the quote that Hillary
about Podesta making him pledge that they're going to get UFO information out, and
John Podesta replied to that tweet and he said just in time for the X
files revival, And just like on all his tweets about UFOs, he put
the hashtag the truth is out there. So yeah, of course everybody's really
excited. Lee. It's kind of funny because Lee Spiegel, you know,
who wrote about it, and I think he's partially responsible for the mainstream finally
paying attention to it. He was frustrated that they hadn't yet. But there
are tons of stories about it yesterday and today now all over the place,
and he's just been going crazy. He's so upset because the vast majority of
these stories have been wrong. So, for instance, the CNN one wrote
that Bill Clinton was on Kimmy Kimmel's show in two thousand and seven, but
no, that's when Steers had asked her questions. But a number of other
inaccuracies in the mainstream media, which we've talked about before. It's just so
frustrating. They don't seem to need or feel the need to do their due
diligence or even any fact checking whatsoever, which is really sad and wrong because
as a journalist with a work ethic, you know, there's no reason for
any story not to do, you know, checking of your facts and core
that's the first role in journalism, I would imagine. Yep, he's really
frustrated about that. So that's been going on. Washington Post, of course,
interviewed Steve Bassett. Bassett had and they quoted who knows he might have
said some other things, but he said something about how I forget Hillary was
going to be John Podesta is kind of the guy pushing disclosure, and he's
Hillary's the conduit, but that Obama is going to be the disclosure president.
And the logic eludes me in all of that, and I really don't see
it. But of course, ever since I've known Bassett, this is a
year that disclosure is going to happen. And it didn't happen, you know,
ten or so years ago when I first heard him say it, or
any year since. But this is still really exciting at least that the conversation
is going on, that's for sure. I think so, And it's probably
gonna snowball. One of the things I want to ask you now we're kind
of eating up a lot of time, almost our whole news time, on
this one thing. But I think it's kind of important, and that is,
what do you think? What in your own mind do you think John
Podesta is really up to When he puts that hashtag the tooth is out there,
it's almost like he's trying to joke in a way. That's kind of
how I'm taking it. Are you taking it differently? Well, we know
he's a big X files fan. He had an X files party when he
worked for Clinton at the White House. Grant Cameron, who you know,
has a website presidential UFO for years has been trying to get pictures of that
party and he hasn't been able to because supposedly people dressed like X files characters.
Who knows, maybe even Bill and Hillary, which would be great.
But we know he's a big X files fan. He spoke at a Leslie
Kane press conference where he said UFO information needs to get out. That was
in two thousand and two. So he's really into UFOs. It's hard to
say. I think as a public figure, he's careful about what he says.
I think he's really having fun with the topic. But we really have
no insight into his true thoughts about whether there are secrets or not. We
know that Bill Clinton looked into whether or not there are UFOs. He's always
he's often had the caveat. You know that it could be that career bureaucrats
are hiding information from him, and they wouldn't be the first president that has
been lied to. Of course, back in during while he was President,
Lawrence Rockefeller was trying to get UFO information out and did some research and put
together a document. I don't think there's any smoking gun there, but it's
interesting. And Hillary Clinton spoke with were In's Rockefeller and we have some pretty
good information to say that they talked about UFOs. So I think Hillary here
was trying to have fun like Obama did on The Kimmel Show, but she's
just not as as funny. She doesn't have the yeah, the type of
same type of humor basically exactly, He's really good at it and she's not
so much. She fails often when she tries to be funny. So um,
So it's really I think it's really hard to say what any of these
people really think about the topic. But one thing we do know is,
at least especially with Podessa and even with Bill Clinton, that they do think
of the topic and that they were open to the idea that there was something
more too the UFO topic. Right, well, we've eaten up the whole
fifteen minutes here, but let's touch real quickly on the two sitings, or
at least one siting you were talking about. Yeah, well, yeah,
real quick, and I would like to do a little intro for Chris O'Brien.
Um, okay, sure, great, way I do it, But
just you want to end with that, yeah, Zach, all right,
sure, yeah, that's great. Yeah. You can read the UFO stows
that Open Minds dot Tv. One of them has an interesting video but I
think it might be a reflection from the window. But lots of sightings going
on that Roger Marshes is writing about. But for now, get ready for
your interview with Chris O'Brien on podcast You have Voo. That was it,
huh my batman, Chris O'Brien, duck and getle mulation on podcast chect you
later, buddy. That was perfect. Thanks so much, lend and we'll
be talking to you next week. Yep, all right, everyone hanging there,
We'll be right back after this quick music break with Chris O'Brian. Chris
O'Brien, how are you good? How'd you like that intro? Uh?
Yeah, spooky. Well, welcome to the show. You are back.
You were on I think I was looking it was back on show number like
eighty something and I think we've done possibly one hundred more since then. Well,
so it was a while ago and I had the pleasure of hanging out
with you in Phoenix. I had we just had a lot of laughs.
It was a lot of fun. Yeah, almost a year ago, right,
I think we were talking about people, weren't we. I'm trying to
prevariably at these events, Yeah, a lot of people talk gets talked about.
Yeah, some colorful people at these events sometimes, and it was it
was quite interesting. Well, you know, listening to Alejandro and you talk
about John Podesta and Hillary and and Clinton. The first thing he did when
he got into office was task web Hubble, if you remember, find out
two things. Number one are UFO is real? And what do we know?
And number two, who killed JFK. That was his other that's right,
I remember that was his other request of his uh his right hand hatchet
man Um, who died in I think died in jail, didn't he um
Um got out of now then died. Anyway. You know, if anybody
thinks that there's going to be disclosure by the US government, you are fooling
yourselves. You're in complete, uh denial of the reality of the situation,
which is most UFO secrets, if you will, are probably held in the
private sector, aerospace, think tanks, that sort of thing. I don't
think um, politicians really have a need to know, even the president.
I think it's military and military industrial complex issue. And I don't don't hold
your breath, and I'd be willing to to bet somebody as much as you
want, that's not going to happen. Yeah, that's why we're seeing all
these other countries release their information to keep the heat off the US. And
if somebody, you know, like Russia or China says, well, we
know what the US knows, I seriously doubt it. And they may know
some things and they may attempt to embarrass the United States, although I doubt
it, but if they do, you know, that's never going to explain
why. Ben Rich, the guy that started the Lockheed skunkworks, said that
we have any pretty much anything you can imagine we can do. We've found
the you know, we've figured out the formula I think he said, or
the equation rather, and we have the technology to take et home. You
know, comments like that from someone as high powered as a been Rich should
really give one pause. And you know, I think it bolsters the whole
idea that, you know, the government doesn't have a need to know about
this stuff. It's all the aerospace folks and people that are attempting to back
engineer what they think is UFO technology. And that's about all I think really
needs to be said on that subject. But I would be willing to bet
anybody any amount of money, Steve Bassett, Stephen Grier, how much you
want to bet. I heard Stephen Greer say in ninety three ninety days,
I guarantee it will have us UFO disclosure in ninety days, and that was
twenty two years ago. Well, the only thing I disagree about what you
just said is I think that the Air Force, knowing that something is flying
around in the skies and they have no control over it, I think that
they would have some type of at least compartmentalized, maybe not actively, but
at least some involvement with trying to figure out what this thing is. And
I don't. Well, sure they have information, they have gun camera footage,
they have all sorts of stuff. But you know, let's get real,
the more you know about UFOs, the more confused you are. They
know a hell of a lot more than we do, so there are a
hell of a lot more confused. And it's probably not the Air Force that's
a repository within the Armed services. I think it's the Navy that probably has
the leg up on files and and data. Bobby Inman is an interesting character.
I think your listeners should check into one of the board members of sai
C. Of course, he was head of Office of Naval Intelligence and was
high up in the Joint Chiefs. Very interesting character. He probably is one
of those people in the know. There's a number of them out there,
you know. I think John Alexander's book gives kind of a nice disinformation version
of why UFO information is not really held in the type of high regard that
that one would think. I think that they realize there's absolutely nothing they can
do, and it's it's not showing any sort of overt hostilities. So you
know, let's just hide our ostrich heads in the sand and keep our little
pink tushies in the air, because worried about it ain't gonna make it go
away, and it's not gonna make it any better. I think there is
confused, more confused than we are. That's why they're more confused. They
know a little bit more, but that's why they're more confused. Yeah,
and I think that is a really good point. I think that it's very,
very possible that no one here on earth really has an answer for what
it is, and it may really not Billy Meyer, certainly not Billy Meyer
or stand Romanac or Jim Sparks or the honorable Paul Hellyer who likes to quote
Jim Sparks. You know, this is a pop culture conundrum, and more
and more people are getting their information, their education, their point of view,
and their opinions from the internet, from the TV, and it's just
it's, you know, it's a snowball running down a hill, and there's
a few of us that want to stand on the top of the hill and
watch how culture responds to all this disinformation, misinformation and blatant programming of opinion.
But you know, the I think the bottom line is we'll have disclosure
when whomever it is that we're talking about decides to, you know, openly
reveal who they are. And I think they're more terrestrial than we are.
To be honest with you, I don't think we're dealing with anything out there
that would come to this violent massage in a totally dysfunctional place. I think
we are a virus and the biodiversity of this planet is eminently more attractive to
any possible outside influence, then then we are. I think it's anthropomorphic of
us to think we're that important. We're not. It's like Agent Smith and
the Matrix said, you're a virus. You take things over and you kill
everything, and you deplete the resources, and you breed like rabbits, you
know, I mean that's how we are. But also I also think that
I do think it's possible that we are being observed in what we do,
even as crazy and chaotic as we are. You know, when it comes
to things like i'm UFOs sightings over you know, nuclear weapons and things like
that, it just makes you wonder if that's why I think it's terrestrial,
because they would have vested interest in anything having to do with environmental degradation.
So that's why they showed up and end mass in forty seven at the dawn
of the nuclear age, because we all of a sudden put them in harm's
way because they're already here or now are you thinking so I want to hear
more of what your thoughts are in that. Do you think are you speculating
that it's possibly another dimension or time travel? What do you think? Well,
you know, it could be. You know, mac Tony's came up
with the term cryptoterrestrial. John Keel came up with the term ultra terrestrial.
Fifty percent of all UFO sidings seem to be tied into bodies of water.
I mean, people forget that. There's just countless, hundreds and hundreds and
hundreds of UFO sidings of objects leaving and entering large bodies of water, even
small bodies of water. So how do we know we're not dealing with something
subterranean or sub oceanic or as you mentioned, possibly some sort of dimensional capability.
Time travel seems a bit of a stretch, but you know, hey,
you know, you can't factor anything out, and you can't factor anything
in, and maybe all of the above plus aliens from outside the closed system
here, we don't know. And until we do know, you know,
there's there's no point in expecting anybody to, you know, come and solve
all our problems for us and uh, you know, save us from ourselves,
or you know, it's just we need to We need to do hard
data monitoring. We need to get the science nailed down behind these craft.
We need magnetic and gravitational data be great to get to a gamma radiation readings,
UH, some sort of light spectrum with blazed gratings on on analog optical
you know equipment, be great to get some real, real good sixteen K
or four K high speed uh footage you know, ten thousand plush frames per
second type type you know, quality images and have it triangulated, have multiple
cameras doing this until we get to a point where we can nail down some
of the the just nuts and bolts, as it were. You can speculate,
you know, from now until you know the cows get mutulated and don't
come home. It it just doesn't matter, you know. Obviously the military
doesn't really have a what appears to be an active interest in these things,
although they are interested. They chase them around. I've seen it with my
own eyes. But how do we know they're not chasing you know, our
own technology that's being you know, pranced around and danced around to appear to
be high strange, you know, I mean a lot of this stuff could
be you know, our exotic technology that's being trotted out to gauge response in
the populace. Well, you know, we don't know. Yeah, I'm
thinking a good example of that, I would think is the cash landrum case,
you know, is that was probably something that went awry, you know
with the radiation and everything. Um, but one of the things could be
it could be something similar which happened was just a few days later. What's
that? Oh? Did that only happen? I thought that like a year
apart, year or two apart or yeah, I don't have my dates straight
right here. But um. One of the things though, going back to
all the different theories that people are talking about, you know, when it
comes to some of the craft that people see that will cloak or disappear or
morph into something else. I mean a good friend of mine saw something,
um like a box explode into five lights that did like you know, moved
around and a jet came along and chase it away. And you know,
um, so you hear of all the different things and that absolutely don't make
any sense. And I've said it before in the show that maybe we can't
even think of what these things are, you know, haven't even um,
you know, I've I've I've shared experiences similar where a large light will break
into you know, several lights and then the opposite several lights becoming one light.
Um, I've seen that as well. You know, we really don't
know what the capabilities of our black projects and black budget, you know,
I mean the black budget in this country is trillions of dollars if you start
adding it up year after year, and I mean I love it. On
September tenth, the day before nine to eleven, two thousand and one,
Donald Rumsfeld announced that four point four trillion dollars were not where they was it
was supposed to be. In appeared that about half of that was missing.
Right of course, you know, the next day the headlines would have been,
you know, just banner headlines announcing, you know, the two point
two trillion dollars was missing from a Department of Defense. Yet we had nine
to eleven conveniently on the front pages instead Trump. So you know, there's
trains of dollars that are not accounted for. Richard Souder, who is probably
one of the top researchers into the underground facility topic, has identified I think
at least one hundred and twenty seven known acknowledged underground facilities. Yet he's combed
through every appropriation's bill for the past thirty forty years and has not found one
penny that has been allocated to build these underground facilities, the ones that we
even know about. That's not even talking about the super secret ones obviously or
there that we don't we're not aware of whether they're COG facilities, continuation of
government, whether they're you know, it's a vast tunnel system tying together military
basis, as some have suggested, mag left trains that travel as a speed
of sound, blah blah blah. You know, we don't really know the
extent of our of our you know, technological prowess underground. I've been fast
on the heels of sources and information about an ancient tunnel system that exists here
down here in the Southwest where I live. I've got a number of very
intriguing stories of including one just near Los Almos, the National Lab there where
workers expanding the lab underground broke into an ancient tunnel system. So we really
don't know the extent of our technological capabilities. I know that there's a patent
out there for a nuclear subterine that was I think issued in the mid seventies
that you know, through sediment the thinking, you know, go twenty to
thirty miles a day through bedrocks, seven by melting the rock and instead of
having a big pile of refuse shooting out behind it like a conventional diamond tipped
driller, it just melts it and coats it on the tunnel walls as a
as a coating like glass. Do we have these things operating? Imagine the
past forty years? How many miles you could do if you could go even
you know, three or four miles a day. How many miles could be
honeycombed under this country? You know, there are a lot of areas of
research that people don't take the time to dive into, and and you don't
you know, nobody is out there exhausting all more mundane explanations to explain UFOs
and other anomalies. It's much easier just to think we're important enough for something
out there to come here and be responsible for all this stuff. I think
it's it's much more complicated. Yeah, I've said that a couple of times.
You know, what what makes us so important? If there's life throughout
the universe, why would we be, you know, other than being observed,
you know with curiosity, um, like we would do if we had
the capability of traveling to other life bearing planets. I'm sure we would study
them, But why would be we be so special that there are you know,
one hundred thousand sightings a year and say um, and that could very
well be that there's one hundred thousand that are unexplained, because only about ten
percent of them reported and about ten ten percent to thirty percent they say are
unexplained. So if that's true, let's just say roughly thirty two hundred thousand
un you know, undescribable UFOs, unidentifiable UFOs are here per year. Why
would they be? Why would we be so special? Exactly? I think
the biodiversity, the wonderful biodiversity on this planet, it has much more of
an allure and attraction to potential outsiders than the one species that's making you know,
on average of one species extinct the day. You know, three to
four hundred species a year that we know of are going extinct because of our
rampant degradation of the environment. So, you know, I prefer to be
more conservative in my analysis of these things. You know, you're talking to
somebody that has spent many years out in the field as a field investigator,
interviewing people, working with law enforcement, working with rural communities, mostly networking
with other you know, investigators and researchers. Read the books. I've got
an extensive library of over a thousand books. Um. I really make an
effort to you know, keep up with what I what I consider to be
important relevant research. You know. Of course I have to be aware of
some of the more outlandish, you know, third phase of moon stuff.
I want to see how sophisticated the hoaxes are getting with the CGI work and
and um, you know, to me, it's so laughable that people are
posting on Facebook and other places just blatant well before before you move off a
third phase of the moon. I like to bust them when I can get
a chance, because they do. You know. There's tons of videos on
YouTube and from third phase of the Moon, and I think about ninety five
percent of them are focus just for the listener out there to keep that in
mind. And it's a numbers game for them because they have something like two
hundred thousand subscribers, so they're making several thousand dollars a month, so it's
all about money. And that's not to say that there's not real videos on
there. There are real videos that are just accidentally salted, you know,
amongst the dozens and dozens and dozens of ridiculous but well done you know host
videos. You know, the whole idea of you know fifty style of Damski
beam ships and billy Meyer beamships and a Damski flying saucers. That is one
of the best things that ever really happened to the world of photographic UFO analysis,
because you can instantly tell if somebody is just going on a you know,
a sign of sort of an idealized cultural meme image of what a UFO
is. And it's very very easy to pick apart inly at just a single
glance. The hoaxes, some of them were complicated ones. Um. You
know, for anyone that it works in videos such as myself. I mean,
I'm in the business of producing video and do know a lot about it.
Um. There are some telltale signs to look for certain kinds of pixelation.
UM. But you know, again with a super highly compressed YouTube signal
um that has a tendency to hide some of the deficiencies of the hoaxes and
it actually aids them. And in depending on the type of hoax it is,
sometimes it's detrimental to the to the to the image as well. There've
been some very good ones. The Jerusalem UH objects shooting off above the Temple
of Uh Dome of the Rock. Um, that was very impressive, very
well done, and they came up with two other videos I believe to help
support it. It was a hoax, but very well done. A lot
of people food and odd over the the Haitian video coming over the beach and
over the palm trees. It's one of the obvious folks, but very very
well done. I think there's twenty I can't remember how many millions, So
there's millions and millions of views on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I forget a lot of people just you know, still think that that's
real and that's what a real spaceship looks like. Dude. Man, you
know, it's just the whole idea of a pro bono proctologists coming here and
reaming people's real ends out for free. You know, I mean, the
the Proctologist Union should be pretty indignant by now, you know. I mean,
you know, you start stealing business from from particular specialists and you know
there's hell to pay. Um. I did want to say while we were
of the name Billy Myra came up a few times for the listener. By
the way, we're on with Chris O'Brien, and if you're listening live,
you know, please jump into the chat room and pose a question if you
have when you have a couple of them up there. I'm going to get
too in a little bit, um, but Billy Meyer just came up a
minute ago, and I would have adlog that I've written recently on Billy Meyer
and just saying, you know that if there was ever a the world's longest
UFO hoax Award, it should be given to Billy Meyer. Now, on
my website, for three or four years, I had a picture of one
of his UFOs and I didn't even know until Michael Horn contacted me and said,
hey, you don't have a you know, copyright to have that image,
and I hope. I didn't even know I had that image on there.
So you know, he made some really good looking UFO videos for the
time he did with mostly basically it wasn't videos. Film, big difference.
What's that that's right? Film? Film? Yeah, eight millimeters sixteen millimeter
and you know he used fishing line. It's kind of proven and you know,
you can see a garbage can lid in one of his flying saucers,
and you can actually see in clear, crystal clear pictures of them. You
can see that they were actually plates and things like that. You know,
a lot of household off My favorite was the wedding cake. Oh, yes,
that's the one they had the trash can lid on it. I think
pretty sure. Yeah. Oh, Michael Horn, oh man, everybody's least
favorite part of the brass section. Well, you know, I had a
little back and forth after I wrote this blog. I was contacted by someone,
had a little bit of a back and forth and they said that poor
Michael Horne, he really buys into it, he really believes it. And
I don't know, I'm not convinced that it's kind of like a religion that's
or a cult that you know, the followers deep in their heart they actually
know, but they stick to it. Anyway. I think that's uh.
I think that's what Michael Horn right, And all the prophecies that he claims,
he makes it come true. Of course they were only announced after the
event occurs. Yeah, that's always that's always good to do, I think.
And I posted this on on that blog. And I know we're kind
of getting in like a negative area here, but still, UM, it's
interesting on that Yeah, on that blog, I just posed some pictures that
he had in a book and it was for these, um let's see if
I can just find that real quickly. Um, it was for two um
girls, that um of aliens that he took. He took pictures of and
um there were actually two women on the Dean Martin Show at the time,
and it was too late by the time he put them in the UM.
He put them in a book, printed them in a book. So I
think it's kind of interesting when people always have like a backup. And it
was Askett and Nara, that's who it was, and it ended up being
Michelle let's see, Michelle Delapha and Susan Lunn from the Dean Martin Show.
And he just blurred the picture and those were the aliens. Now, he
put them in his book, published the book, and then when it came
out that these were indeed, you know, Dean Martin stars, that's when
he came up with the story that men in black came in and changed the
pictures and anything. You know, He's just got these great stories that he
comes up with and yeah, you know, he looks like a very happy
man and nice man. But I think that you know, he's been getting
money from supporters for years. Yeah, well he has a little bliss.
Bunnies come to his laundry to cook for him, you know, tend his
garden, you know, hold it when it needs to be held, and
let go and it needs to be let go of. Um. You know,
hey, the guy's got a good gig going. You know, Who's
who am I to argue except to say the guys, you know, a
fraud. That's not to say he hasn't had real experiences. I think early
on in the sixties, I believe in India, if memory serves been correct,
and possibly early on in Switzerland when he became back, that he did
have some real experience. Just but just like the contacts of the fifties,
you know, they just they think they're singled out and that they're special,
and they have to keep coming up with news stories, new sidings, new
you know, claims. Just like the people in the UFO field that make
their money and pay their bills with their UFO work every six months, they
got to come up with a news story. They have to continually top themselves.
They have to, you know, make sure that the mirror is big
enough for the size of their heads and their hair dees, and you know,
it's it's it's very similar, and I don't have much respect for that
aspect of the field. In fact, it makes me embarrassed. If everybody,
you know, anybody says, oh, you're here, I want to
introduce you to my friend who's a ufologist, I immediately spanked them and say,
don't lump me in with those crazy people, you know, because a
lot of this field is you know, there's a reason why academia and the
scientific community doesn't want to get slimed, because there's a lot of people out
there that don't know their asked from a hole in the ground, People that
write books and are on TV that don't know their asked from a hole in
the ground about this subject. They really don't. And you know, people
that buy into, you know, some of these scenarios that Andrew Besageo,
Yes, I was a time traveler at time, but I went back to
the Gettysburg address and as a child, and or Laura Eisenhower and some these
people. It's just I can't believe anybody takes this stuff well, you know,
seriously. I think there's also there's also a situation here where people are
not gonna like when I say this, But I think sometimes that and this
is not my own thinking totally, but I do when you say something like
this, there's like UFO can be a religion. And you know, there's
a friend and fan of the show that has talked about this. I've talked
about this with her a few times, and it can kind of be I
think that people are always there's a certain segment of society that is always looking
for something, you know. And I don't mean that you know, my
listeners to the show or anything like that. I just mean that there is
a segment out there that is looking sort of lost and looking for something.
And and why is that, Martin, I mean, think about it.
Why is that because these these these patriarchal you know, long past their their
due time, you know, monolithic religions of Judaeo Christianity in Islam, you
know, have subjugated and controlled people with inter mediaries between the individual and in
their own divinity and their own connection to spirit. We have all these intermediaries
that are there to control everybody and and it's outmoded. This this whole belief
system of some guy and this guy with a big white beard, you know,
passing judgment over and you know, the whether he's in a good mood
in the Old Testament, but a bad mood in the Old Testament or a
better mood in the New Testament. I mean, you know, we really
need to understand that these are outmoded belief systems and people are looking for something,
something more that they can relate to, and you know, ets and
aliens or a perfect substitute. And you're absolutely right. I mean I I
stand up in front of some of my conference audiences and and say, don't
you realize you're you're all sitting there looking at me, and you're in the
pews of the of a new Church of the twenty first century? Can I
get a n Amen? And then there's silence, and I have to yell
brothers and sisters, can I get an amen? And then of course they
start amen Amen. You know, it's like testify. Um, It's obvious
to me. It's not kind of like a religion. It is. It's
a it's a belief system that is evolving into a space age. Uh,
you know benevolent space brothers are coming here to solve all our problems and fix
everything for us. Type myopia. It's just my opic man. That goes
back to at Demski and George van Tassel and Sure Daniel Fry, George Hunt
Williamson. My favorite of those guys was Truman Bethroom. I think his case
may have been real. Can you explain that one? I'm not sure if
I know who that is. Oh, Truman Bethroom and or Rains a little
forth with women, commander of the ship, and he wrote an entire book
of rhyming couplet poetry love poetry to her. Now, if it was a
hoax, you think he'd spend all that time to write a love poem,
that it was a whole book's worth of rhyming couplets to the diminutive commander of
the spaceship or Rains. I've done some research in that there's some supportive evidence
of the case that are pretty interesting, including some artifacts and other things.
I actually have a signed copy of a border flying saucer that Bethroom signed,
one of my my kind of old I think it's maybe the first book with
the word flying Saucer in the title, I'm not sure. Yeah, definitely
one of the first couple. So it sounds like you have quite a library.
Have you been collecting earlier UFO books? Yeah, yeah for many,
many many years since way before I got involved to the extent that I am
today, and in books on on all sorts of things, uh, mysterious
locations, you know, the works of Charles fort Um, cryptozoology, the
occult um, all all sorts of mysterious subject matter. I have tons and
tons of of of books. Move I bet yeah, books are their hardest.
Some just wrote on the message board you need to do a UFO Hope
show two hours blast on Roswell slides, Project Pegasus and Billy Meyer. That
was I mean, let's talk about Surpo and I mean we can talk Corey
good and like I said before, Beisaggio and and uh some of the just
ridiculous inanities from Alfred Weber, um, some of the bizarre our stuff that
David Wilcock comes up with, and David Serreta. I mean, we won't
even talk about Sean, David Morton, um, someone Linda House stuff.
It's just it's it's amazing to me that these people get millions of people tuning
in and believing this stuff. That's what you were talking about. The hair
due That's why I laughed. Well, I was thinking, Richard Hoagland too
is like the Warren Zevon song and his hair was perfect. Well yeah,
and now now Richard Dolan, Yes, so I'm gonna pick on him too.
No, Richard letting his hair grow. He's he wants to be at
chick Magnet. Yeah, you look pretty free and happy. Last last year
at the UFO conference, um that we both were at. Now I am
getting a lot of messages up on a message board that people want to talk
about cattle mutilations were almost at the top of the hour. But um,
so I do have I'm gonna if you don't mind, we'll shift gears and
we'll talk a little bit about that. And yeah, I mean, I'm
I'm you know, I hate to sound like a nasare and but I'm just
so disgusted by a vast majority of what passes is uphology. You know,
I just can't help it. I can't help to be down on it.
And it's an embarrassment to be associated with the subject in any way, shape
or form. At times, it really is. You know, I'm getting
tired of of you know. It's like I feel like Rodney Dangerfield's you know,
red haired stepchild. You know. It's funny when I talked to a
lot of people that have been at it for as long and longer as you
not all of them, but a lot of them kind of have the same
attitude, you know. And I've heard, you know, someone say,
we have to drain the swamp and uthology and a lot of people, you
know, just get burned out. And there was someone I wanted to do
I wanted to talk to the other day. I was looking him up on
the Hopkinsville m Kelly case or whatever it is. You know, way back
there was someone doing some great research on that. And when I finally got
through people like Kurt Collins that knew of him and all that, he said,
oh, yeah, he left the UFO field and we'll have nothing to
do with it. You know, there are people that just get burned out
and have seen the changes. And just spoke with Lee Spiegel yesterday and he
was basically saying kind of saying the same thing. You know, He's been
added a long time too, since the early seventies, so it does.
It takes the twists and turns. Um. But I think you're right about
you know, pop culture does there is um, you know, interaction with
what is pop culture? And and you know, people people haven't in their
mind's eye, I think subconsciously what it is that makes them excited and makes
them you know, want to believe. And if they here's something that conforms
to that sort of unconscious desire, then they give it. They give it
attention, They they feed into it, and it's it's a feedback loop.
And uh, you know, if you start you know, it's what did
Joseph Goebel say? If you say the same lie over and over and over
again, people take it as the truth. All right. Since since we're
talking on this, I often times pick on someone you mentioned earlier, and
that's um, doctor Stephen Greer. Now he is an example, um to
me, and I a lot of times I get hate mail when I talk
about this, and that's okay, UM, but he is someone that I
thought started out actually pretty decent and uh, you know, made some really
good efforts and uh, but you know he's he's uh, he's someone just
to like what you're talking about. God met Stephen twenty two years ago,
and he was he was a man on a mission. His right hand girl,
Friday managing director. Uh. Sherry Adamack was one of my best friends,
um after I met her, and um, like I told him twenty
two years ago in front of a bunch of really wealthy, very powerful and
influential people. So I'm associated with Laurence Rockefeller others associated with some big East
Coast money. I told him my point point blank, I said, Stephen,
your message is way more important than you are. And he goes,
WHOA we do? And I said, no, no, Stephen, here,
let me say this again. Okay, your message is way more important
than you are. And when you when you start talking megalomania and you know,
just rampant egoisticism or whatever the word is, egotism. Uh. And
in all the grandstanding um that goes along with it, you become and and
and intellectual dishonesty. I mean, let's get real, um, you become
a major part of the problem. And you know, I support Stephen vision
and his not so much as message anymore, but I did early on.
You know, I can see the importance of trying to get proactive and all
these types of things that he attempts to do, but not lay everybody lay
their hands on the doctor, and he'll be the intermediary to channel the aliens
down. And you know, when you really start interjecting yourself as the lynchpin
for any scenario involving upology except for the with the exception of Ray Stanford,
um, you become a highly suspect and uh and compromised. Right And and
Ray, I'm sure he's listening. He say he listens to every show.
I believe really like Ray a lot. Ray is the only person in upology
that really matters as far as I'm concerned. Wow, that's quite a statement.
He's the only one doing doing the work to the extent that it needs
to be done. And when he finally decides to reveal you know, years
of analysis that he's been doing, um, it's gonna be a whole whole
new ball game. I mean there's gonna be uh. I guess B R
and A R before Ray and after Ray. And I don't say that lightly.
I'm not a disciple of Ray. I'm I'm not a m you know,
a true believer of Ray. I don't genuflect at the altar of Ray
I just know good scientific work when I see it. Yeah, and uh,
and Ray is the only person that even comes close to even being in
this conversation, right, Yeah, I think he's absolutely brilliant, really and
Rock just saying that if you're listening, Ray, But um, all right,
we got I wanted to get into the cattle mutilations. We only have
about four or five minutes left in this um this hour, but so let
me just post the one question And that was the first question that went up
on the message board. Someone wanted an update on your camera Capture UFO data
project in the San Luis Valley. Well, like everything, it's three steps
forward, two steps back. We have the gear. We have a team
that's gone ahead and taken our real Shot Manager software, which is the proprietary
software that's Sony released for security cameras. And what they've done is they've they've
put it on steroids and supercharged it so that instead of fifteen pixels being the
smallest movement on the screen that will be registered as motion, we've gotten it
way down to a small packet size. And so there's been some real major
work done in the software. Right now. What we're doing is we're setting
up a base station near Alamosa, Colorado, which is in the very center
of the valley. We're talking about getting it up on you know, a
fairly high telephone pole that has a special type of apparatus that allows us to
bring the camera down they haven't having to climb up and grab it so that
we can clean the bird droppings off, because that's been a problem with these
dome cameras. Birds love to sit on them, and of course they end
up doing their thing on them too and obscuring our view. So it's been
fits and starts. My base station. Guys ran through kind of a rough
summer. His wife was involved in a bad automobile accident and he got called
out of work town on work, and so we've been kind of put put
behind our schedule right now. But there's also talk of working with Leslie Kane
and Mark Rodiger. Of course, Barrel it was a long time from Kufos.
They have a similar type of idea called UFO Data, and we had
him on the Paracash, my radio show in and they seem very working with
us. I've also been in touch with Mark D'Antonio, who is the official
digital video analysts for a moufund who's working with Douglas Trumbull in you FOLCATUM.
That's another possible alliance that we're going to have. UM. I think that
we have done quite a bit of research and development work, UM, you
know, in terms of software and and trying to get up you know,
affordable off the shelf equipment. We have all the gear we need, it's
just a matter of of id the you know, ideing the proper locations and
having people there to actually tend to the gear. It's one thing to have
a you know, a bunch of camera set up in a base station.
It's another thing to have a properly banned And so the next thing that we're
planning on doing, UM is doing a Kickstarter campaign and getting the necessary operating
funds UM so that we can then boom pay people you know to do things
instead of just relying on their free time. UM. That approach hasn't worked.
So we're going to go to a to a you know, a you
fund me type thing and and UM and have some cash. I think we
do have, you know, a very interesting and well thought out idea,
and I think it will attract the kind of public contention and scrutiny. Um
that will you know, enable us to get some funding. Um, it's
not that expensive to do this now in this day and age. Um.
The cameras we have now are almost obsolete. I mean, we're we're just
up at high depth. The real problem in rural areas though is bannedwidth.
And now that the San Luis Valley is finally getting the kind of T two
lines and really good bandwidth, um, now we have recourse. Um.
We're also playing with an idea of having a completely close circuit land, our
own land, um, so that we don't have to rely on the internet.
Uh and and possibly allow you know, software to be compromised from outside
and that sort of thing. So we're looking at it. We're looking at
having both a live feed for the cameras and having an internal CLO closed loop
system for the three cameras. Yeah, I think you question just came up
on the message board, but I believe you just answered that. Someone was
asking how you plan to link the base station's video stream, so I guess
you just answered that. And they also said that you should put an alien
looking scarecrow up on top. Well, we actually have a mechanical owl that
when a bird gets close motion detector goes off, and the owl turns its
head and hoots. Oh my goodness, because that's what you always see like
on boats and things when they're trying to keep birds away. Exactly. Wow.
Great, all right, well we're going to talk an hour or two
about with a muncher questions up there about cattle mute relations and all that stuff.
So all right, you can say goodbye to the hour one people.
If you would buy our one, people get a subscripcheon for our two.
I'm a no holds barred. That was pretty good. All right. That's
it for our one, And if you'd like to support the show to listen
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website podcast ufo dot com. I want to thank a few people for the
show tonight. First of all, Evan helped out with the sound. Peggy
shunning helps out with the Facebook page. Remember you can like us on Facebook
for all the latest UFO news. Carrie Lloyd Whitehouse for the music, and
next week we have Mike mcclellanon and he tells an unusual story about owls and
alien abductions. It's kind of a different type of show next week, but
I hope you come back and you'll see us live anytime for free the whole
entire show. Just go to podcast ufo dot com on Wednesdays at eight to
ten pm Eastern Standard Time. Thanks a lot, everyone, and we'll be
talking to you next week. Keep your eyes to the sky.