Hey, good evening everyone. Wherever you're listening from Lagos, abujaa New York,
wherever you're listening from, Welcome to the spaces with me Klu. This
is the money space with me and over in the next two or three hours,
we're going to be talking money, the economy, finance. How do
those topics affect your wallet? Won't make it personal to you. Want to
educate as well as oblip leave you better off when you came in. Today,
we have she said, a special edition. I have the guys from
a budgeted and if you know them Budgeted and Tracker. They've been doing excellent
work in Nigerian public space, tracking where your money, your tax money is
going to giving you be good in fut graphics, what the government, what
the subnationals, what the local governments are doing with your money. I follow
them and if you guys listen to me, I always say follow Tracker.
They're here on the space. You can see them right there. Follow them.
What they do is they go in and they allocations made by the governments
to sub national to the federal government and they track it to the actual implementation
stage. Has it been done, Where did the money go to? What
has happened so far. That's what they do. So that's just your own
way of putting pressure right and ensuring that the tact that you're paying is judiciously
use. You know, we currently do complaints. You know, complaints are
just hot air and we someone might not want to go out the streets.
I get it. But when you look at folks like Tracker, they're doing
the job for you and all they want from you is to spread the information.
If more tax spenders know that when a budget is passed, the ordinary
line is going to track the implementation, there's going to be better commitments to
invest that money appropriately. So the least you can do, guys is to
follow them, retweet, also help them. If you live in the local
government and it's the project there, go and take pictures and send to them
and say, hey, this is my local government. This project was appropriate
in the budget. It hasn't been done. That's your own way of being
Susan. I've got mistablished to go as a listener. I've also got Tracker
as a listener. I really want to get them on board to the space.
So guys, best request to speak, I'll add you. We can
do our introductions and we can get right onto the top of the day.
We're talking the State of the State report. If you just go on my
handle, I posted the link to the report. Also go to budget its
handle you can also get the link to the report as well. It's very
detailed, lots of infographic talking about health I g r GDP, how the
states are essentially do it and I like it because it's subnational. We most
of times tend to focus on the federal government, right, but this is
subnational, so we're also focusing on the states per se. Right, what
are the states doing with the funds? That's essentially why I want to bring
them in for us to talk. I essentially know what's happening in our own
states. So's say, Lucia will serve about that. Let me have you
just owe me to use yourself tell us about budget it and tracker and don't
want to take it from there. Welcome sir, Thank you so much,
and thanks so much for doing this. Really excited that active citizens, private
citizen and take the initiative and the primacy and importance to our work and we
use their space and their platforms to distribute it effectively. I will just share
a little bit about budgets. A few people here might not at our house,
and people you might not even know about us. But we started twenty
levels measures that we're learning from around twelve years focused on civic engagement, physical
accountability, public sector efficiency. These three click our elements of our work.
Our work is to engage disease and ensuring that have the required information to work
over and accountable. Is to show them a part of physical accountability, which
means they can be the most using information that we about here that being able
to do to go over the accounts. And so this should efficiency we create
about the public resources. Most efficiency spends that would require CISS because significant demands
of that system we have worked. We work in five key areas. One
is budget access and research and anybody that knows about budget chunk of that we
work on public projects. That's like a major goal, that's our major role.
We also work on service liby management, which is tracker ensuring that road,
schools, hospitals, clinics, whatever is built and trap that to the
end and constantly bringing it into the awareness of public servants. Our third is
a natural resource governance and private financing, which we just reworked. Still resent
so We also care about funds and doing NPC considerate on private privating goods as
we know. Then we also work private financing as a team make sure that
funds are accountable in our regard. The fourth part of our work is focused
on strengthening the health systems. We care a lot about healthcare, so we
build a platform called PC Track Adu Whole that I would share the links all
of these platforms as we go along the way. So PT we created this
platform to build conversation as much as possible around the pro primari of the system.
And the last part decision engagement super governments some governments that we think going
to be efficient and one before looking we help them to improve their work and
engagement with citizens. So that's gonna be sormary. We have our faces not
just in Nigeria, gardens, librarians, Senega also a small output West international
team soa too. Just the quick one for you, right, is what
you guys do in the other countries. It is the thing that you do
in Nigeria, Like if you're in Senegas, it's the same thing you do
there, like you track the governments first, almost the same thing or is
different? Do you remember Mary. For so most of the other countries it's
three years and so we just we we take it all year to understand the
space. So we don't do program for a year, we try and do
something citizens engagement and weather's aby. But we're still doing that in Senegal and
in US correctly, I'm super in Ghana for osmoland healthcare and natural a results
confidence. In Libraria, it's gonna health care and public projects, whereas in
see we're certain watch running the uses. And so it's not what fit size
approach gotcha? What about just gonna common air or on track? I mean
I'm a big fan, like I said, I mean the hugish fan.
I mean, that's a story I can tell I who want to say where
it does. A particular guy was the legal state where he would go and
print out what his loocal government got on allocation because it's all right, he
can print it out and he will go and pace that allocation all over look
at good men, and after I do a first laugh at him, after
I pull that way to this guy gets in one hundred million a month or
one hundred of a month, they put her to ask questions. He got
to the stage where lookal man will be like, hey, go ahead and
fix this road. Then you have to come and cause trouble here. Just
the simple act of printing out the allocation. See these things work. Don't
treve away and say to never work with wasting our time. It worked to
hold you to the account with data, which is what track is doing.
The track's come on here, use yourself. Just let us know what you
do as well. My name is currently that track car. Thank you so
much. You did so we see you talk about our work. Thank you
so much, and I agree with what you say. We recently wearing there
was a guy from Cano that told us that he knew a guy personally who
was who used to criticize the government in Canoe and do all the criticisms and
they not pay attention to him. But once he signed up. Instead they're
using the FA advocations that his goa government was getting. I think it was
Surrealdy decided to say that he was using numbers that figures to back up what
he's saying, and what he was saying was true. And they had to
call him much as I do, and I called him that, come you
this one, what are you talking about? What exactly do you want us
to do for you and will add you to one of this environment broke beneficial.
So it's one of those things where you say that people think that oh,
there's the governments to score up everything as there's nothing we can do,
but actually did this and we say that politicalpus. They're online, whether you
want to use online or offline and books, they're line, they're seen and
when they see that, you're not just shouting oh they are still o money
their courage. You are using data and figures you have, You're using facts
to back up what you're saying. They start to pick interest and sometimes it's
a it's a long it's a journey that takes a I like to say it's
the journey, not it's a match or not disperence. So it does not
mean that way you talk today to change. But they start listening and they
start knowing that somebody is monitoring them, and so it forms the besom of
your decisions with many rooms where they will be like somebody called us for our
agency and we're like, they receive their letter, they will like us to
cover. They will give us all the information we want because we have been
seeing you online or the way you have been attacking dispeople dont to do comman
attackers, and so we say that it's if it's more like a class action
from cities. Everybody is putting the yeah, yeah and for the yeah and
every day we're way to get the government to listen to us more and equally,
if it's only ten percent of what we're asking them to do, their
name too, that is going to go a long way for us moving like
that. Well said yeah, well said I will. We all have to
do something I can, and I know many folks complain, but they don't
want to go out. I get it, you know, But just follow
tracker see the project that they are tracking. Retweeted that's it. If you
have a local government or you see your road, it's not being done.
Take a picture, send to them. Go to your budget, pull off
what the governments are going to invest in. Track that project yourself in your
own local government. Take a picture. Send It works, guys, it
does work. So let's complain small action put their feet to the fire.
It does work. But should let me come back to you. Let's talk
about the State of the States Report. What's it all about? Highlighted?
What are you guys trying to achieve the report, and how long had the
guys on this report and are you actually getting traction with what you're achieved when
you published the first one? All right, maybe i'll beg that you is
a guy and the part of the listeners is incosent. Maybe look for him
and maybe she requests because our head always searched, and I'm sure he will
be justice than me, but I can get a little bit of Around fifteen
as well, we started to work on state up states and it was clair
towards then prepared to was simple. There was a challenge in getting state budgets
stated back then it went for the album of our staff arrested in trying to
get state budgets. I think it was in down to the state. And
so whenever we ask questions about budgets, people just don't want to ask house.
So we said, okay, since we don't have still budgets, we
who start at least starts a physical performance rating to check what is the viability
of a state when we be seeing we look at the states, are we
studying that that state has the financial almost so just we signed shocks or what
are vulnerabilities of the state and look at the physical terms like budgets, IDR,
revenue, spendature. We're spending so much, we spend too small.
I wasn't quality of their spaying. So we sat in twenty and fifteen so
put it with the by Gates Foundation to been back in US since then and
the work has been simple brand seats and the physical health and performance of states.
And we've seen between the methodologists at least I from the iterational about metallology
we were and World Bank and the World Bank we work on validating the metadology
together. So we go to the old the Borough process of ensuring that mythologist
is so. So that's the second part of the work. And the interesting
part is that we've had issues. We stayed but I remember the state of
stay for the last year there was a government in southwest maybe distaclosess videos and
he went on a hun. It filled us on the IDR figures and we're
just saying that we didn't implore an IDR figure from the head. We used
what you have in your statements. I mean you could declay anything to the
NBS, but we were working with World Vehicle was in your O detailed report.
So we've had it stays commending us taking like a badge of fun or
something that's push back and like else that this does not represent fact what we
said. This is our methodology and this is what we do. And I
think in the old purpose is that it was it was more and more important,
it was more useful when the OI price shops happened in twenty fifteen.
I mean it was already sharp after literally forteing thing became everything pronounced and states
now felt in a lot of states, I mean twenty four out of Telsey
states and not able to be startares for a period of six months. So
it was clear that state ability is a big issue. So national physical health
is a piggish in the country. The further government and princes we are out
of busical boris we have business a sovereign or states have limited the patulities in
the winness. And in recent times it's the performance who tells this. You
know, the most excellent deb will be reprised with the valuable which remodized,
expenstance being evaluated and some other insights like that. But I think the best
person that would give an insight well in the state of states in a who
sent who's ahead of research and it's right here, so it's got the flow,
the mandate, go for it. And he talked to us about this
reports. Right, what you we look at? Why is it important?
It starts off with physical sustainability? What does that actually mean? All right?
Cool? But I think we also be on the report itself. We
also also do thematic analysis. So over the years we've looked at experts report
what it is. It's sad that I'm broken down ways to stay too in
terms of expert what that state probility is. In terms of investing in health,
we've looked at productivity about state. We took at operational costs of state.
So beyond those to the ranking. That's what we have like to to
an eight hundred world peace and every state, because we also dive everything to
what exactly we should be looking at. This year was about investment in health
and that was the tally for national productivity and leave all right, thanks so
much. I asked that white health. But if thanks mister, I mean
fortuation. I mean a man, Avery blew out your work on Twitter around
you know, finance, and I'm happy to participate and also speak. I
know earlier on the show, I've spoken about the days of state or states
where it was difficult for us to get actual data to work with, and
we have to rely on, you know, budgets and as you know,
with budgets, objects are just projections or you know how governments tend to raise
and you know, spend revenue, and the budgets do not really give you
two pictures of our government is spending resources. It shows you know, a
snipers of our intends resources. But of course you cannot spend what you do
not have. And so by twenty twenty, when states began to release their
financial statements, he gave us a real opportunity to now look exactly at what
states were prioritizing. You asked the question earlier, and what we try to
look at when we try to measure the physical source and ability of states summary
is just check the viability of states. So if these skids were to exist
theoretically as independent states, how would they say we they run bankrupt or would
they be able to run the states with what they're able to generate internalier skates?
What does this get sustability profile of these states look like? And so
you know, we have to actuate the methodology three times now we want theta
available. So currently we have about five h indexes that we used to measure
the states. At the first index speekly index A, we try to steal
our skates. Are you know, able to their operating expenses, which what
they are only able to generate internal what we generally called idea. And when
we look at opreating expenses, we are looking at the personal cost, that's
what they pay their salaries, what if pay has you know, pension another
benefits. We look at over heads. Of course, what our head costs
unally forms the very critical component of the cost of running you know, government.
And certainly we look at the interest on loans because as you know,
uh, the loads are usually not reputable or reputable transfers, meaning that regardless
of over much you end, you must you know, service boots and pay
them back when they had to. And so the interest you know you look
play on those loans form your prettiness pens. So whether you like it or
not, yeah, you must facialaries, you must pay patients, you know,
even if now space have made it optional to pay patients and salaries.
But ideally, whether you like it or not, you most facialarities. You
must be patients, You must you know around government as its may. And
then you most service loads. You can decide whether this year there's not enough
money to build the road or building school and am in government who still road?
But these other components are work form operating expenses. So we try to
say in that indexing, how the capacity of the states to meet that must
do? Which is operating expenses, which what you're to generate internal as if
you don't add what comes from differal governments as fedal transfers, whether it start
to try a location, or whether it's deficit, or whether for states that
are all producing, whether it's the teteen percent drive vision for twenty years,
where there are things like the Parish Fund, Paris Fond, Paris Club reform,
or tailouts that are being into states, all these categorized as federal transfers
to the states. For the second index, we now say, okay,
outside your idea, if it not add the transfers that you know I had
mentioned, and you add ins and brands you know which its benefit from me
each here how do how does how are you able to build your pretty expenses
and your loan repayments obligations with your total rebion, is it enough right to
medio operating expenses and your loan repayment. That's index sorry escaped and in the
A one which is basically how we try to see how states are growing their
ir ye ony, so what efforts have still made right in the last twelve
months to grow your idea and so we we try to also let your stage
in that regard. Therefore index see the indexes. I try to look at
the tax stability of the skids and will try to marry for you know,
small index is to make it a composite index. We look at what the
you know, what it gets to GDPs, what it gets to revenue is
what gets service to revenues. And then what the personnel post you as a
percentage of the revenue is I need to be shopping at customs for wanting it?
You know, sixty as sixty percent of the stage revenue was used you
know for personnel posts, and so you are left want doing So what is
left for you, you know, to service your head? What is left
for you to you know, to use to send this your debts which is
your interest from your loose then you know, turn on top of what is
left of your capital expended as you sort of issue a sense of where states
are, you know what the standings of states are in that regard. That's
what let me ask you for you for your hop of we try to see
how prioritizing capital expended over their recurrence. I'll give it to you, okay.
And that's the first question. Right when we have the states performance on
Index A, I see Legos versna O going and a number one, two,
three, four five. So does it mean that that means that Legos
based on what does that fiscal What does it mean if I see Legos as
zero point six three and at one point six what doesn't mean Yes, what
it means is that LEGS was able to raise enough revenues internal that's their idea
are such that they required only sixty three percent the point six of that your
total revenue to service the pretty expen able to really enough to reach the opting
extent like Zambar by your start for restance Tafar wid one and plenty times was
gered internally to meets it. It's a Britain expense. So that tells you
that this state we need to do. You know it from meats. It's
a pretty expense, not an out top of the other things like go aheads
or the mount of epics as that's why you say that was on stage all
the many particular is just to be salaries. The channel they willing to go
to, you know, generation of revenues. If you don't add you know
what comes from the feral events as federal transfers like when you go to ind
XP, we'd see to like for the XP even after you know the federal
trans first the idea and you know grants and grants. You know that's put
together. What's you're not enough to take care of your plating expenses and your
feeling say that a still to get it from parts of their loans and in
types of hapics borrowings you know was needed to perform their capital expend may be
so index big capitals index as only I g R index B is I G
can what you're able to do, which is your yeah transfers or maybe how
that is a motive in your pretty expenses and your own payments. Very interesting.
Let me pick a state here, point in state in index A is
nowhere. It's a point still doesn't show up really anywhere and index A.
When you go to index B point is number two the er point four four.
So what does that mean that that points it is borrowing or have the
What does that mean that when the stage is there? Legos point of what
that means got in lots from UH, from back and from infant brands.
I was able to generation not to be able to take care of his operating
expenses. Alternatively, what that means, but it can also be is that
he was able to grow it IDR. It did increase his operating expense.
So it's it said that you are trying to re use your person expense or
you're grain your IDR to be able to beat your preating expense. Makes makes
sense to me. It makes sense to me. So I'm sorry, We're
gonna do a bit of this. Then I want to go into the state
by stage your mind. Just the last points on this the I g R
figure itself just want attached itself would of course shoe Legos really fasted the normal
corporate right. But I like to trage guys did when you at the I
g R to the GDP and when you attached the IG at the GDP,
we now have rivers Quara go go on in and so that's I know rivers
I really about Quara. So you are saying that why is Quara? They're
number two? Let's talk about Quara. So we you're looking at the idea
is you look sing the capacity of the economy? Right, so basically you're
looking at as as an economy, what are you able to generate from the
economy? Activity is happening in that your economic and so why the fingers very
new? It is because even need a lot of citizens happening in some cases
you call in most cases their users legs because in the way these ones don't
find their way to you know, the compact of these states, the men
who gets this money from, whether it's the access fands, you know,
whether it is the market to men, whether is you know, the transporters,
care riders. But then there's no channels for that. One need to
find this way to be comfers of these states. And so regardless of the
want to more economic activities in that state, if you mental is what the
states is then put to bake, you know, whether as tax or non
tax reven you know, it doesn't mismatch, It doesn't tell you you're not
able to see how those economic activities have translated into more revenues for these states.
So if you look at it from that lens, you begin to see
areas where states need to improve in terms of, you know, adequately or
efficiently collecting. Now I'm not going to use acting collecting because as it is
a lot of people already paying. You know, again the appeal to your
own true. You know, also governments, we now need to reform around
how efficiently collect you know, these revenues. And you know I would now
use that scene in solving a lot of this society problems that exist. Let
me bring let me bring Tracker back in here, and is there is there
a relationship with this figures where we have gdpop a capital per state ranking and
the she said the efficiency of the state government in implementing projects. Do we
see a correlation for instance, it's quir tracker. Do you see that quaratitis?
Is she now implementing this projects on the budget? Does that show up?
But do we see state don't make a lot of I g R but
projects don't get done track dony correlations on that really have the full bits that
because we do not track stay fund their projects? And why because the information
is not readily available, so if we wanted to get information on the projects
that states are to implements every year, we have to start lobbying from each
state every state to get the data. So we always focus our efforts on
the projects that is readily available to the public, which is deferer our goverment
projects. But sometimes this also these data also reflects some things that we see.
For instance, we are launching our twenty two project tracking report on November
eight and we'll be able to also comprehensively review what sectors receive the most allocation
even though they are federal government implemented projects in the state. And for instance
where it's did like Parra, we thought that there were no education projects in
the years, so they are about three hundred projects are none in ste education
and so we have some states that also there a lot like Embody as well.
In our track in terram we've seen that a big issue that the state
has the people have his access to clean water, probably because of the terrain
of the states, and there are no water related projects in their constituency projects
about yes, this is annoying. We also want to put the sectors are
not necessarily further governments possibility when there when their interventions like this from the federal
governments, they should prioritize what the pay the pain points of these states.
So for this one saying the states apacity to for their ideas out to meet
their expenses or their capital expecting, but we cannot release it because we don't
really track national projects. And actually, lads killed you will be traptured a
projects. What you just said. So in the Bonnie State, lots of
projects, but no water project, which is the pain point of the citizens
of the Borne state. But the state is building is gonna spend fifty million
United States dollars on an airport. Fifty million United States dollars on an airport,
just put it out. Then again you talked about Koara, you said
there was no education. Could just touch on that again. So project project
projects, there are no projects on education. We have qui aletes us to
conclude they have no projects on the education and you know you One of the
things we found out also is that for environment projects, there's a lot of
emphasis on environment projects for all the states. So it's like the fragile government
even with the capital projects. Now before we didn't used to see a lot
of environment projects in the capital projects just used to be being the saidiapist,
but in the last four or five years environment projects have been really sticky seeping
in into the largpis. So you have that the federal government is funding lesson
grants to cooperative societies with a dread MILLIAD and even the budgets line items,
it's very obscure. You don't you don't know where exactly being discourse, where
is it going to. So these are some of the issues that we have
been able to be points that we'll be talking about also in the reports that
we launching. Okay and the last one back. Yeah. I've also done
some more around or just you hoping to bally tries to look out how better
to accurately and consistently project and spain you know, revenues as the casting we've
seen that there's a weak correlation between you know, fabilibility of revenues and implementation
of projects. Government often to spend on things that the prioritize oft times than
knows when you see the re implementation of projects that directly affect the masters and
the excuse you would often get from government is that you know, revenues are
not availing. But we found out that in practice, governments would always find
money to spend on whatever it is it's considers priority. If it's an airport
like you had mentioned earlier, it would build it. If it's an international
conference center, he would find money to build it. If it's not an
international worship center, he will always find money to build it. So when
you usually get the excuses is into school that the child of the woman who
or in the health care center than the child of woman who beneficial. I
mean, look at what the last with the last administration, because the federal
mental bat twenty one in your narr to build the the clinic in the state
house cleaning. And if you look at the national primary development, that is
you know something, the responsibility of taking care of over two thousand primary of
the federation humilatively project for that was not that one. So what was that
Probably you look at the primary across board, the lock left to be desired.
We have to say it again because you're saying, you're saying it very
fast. People didn't already hear you. What you're saying is that the funds
are located to build one hospital for the president was more than the funds used
to build half those across the federation. Could you just figures again one more
time, please said this clinic the think relatively it was over twenty one billion
NAR and the project the National Primarial Care Developments Basins he got many agency startled
with responsibility of teaching to over thirty thousand primarier incidents, you know, across
the letter bread of the federation. Relatively. Their project wasn't up to the
Coplex project wasn't up to twenty one billion. Wow. But that clinic was
conditionioned you know, by the last president when left office. Now for the
clinic to the state of primarial care centers right across the letter bread of the
federation. And that tells you what that government prioritize. If we won't look
at healthcare and so that is what we see replicates across school It would insert
you to know that, you know, for some states, and I'll use
one states, you know as an example, an ambrasket. We looked at
the budget executive because I'm not trying to move away from saying project performance because
you're spending money does not mean that you have performed. So let's use the
world execution. If you look at the project execution Ambra in twenty twenty one,
you would see that he spent with and apple what was appropeted for for
the airports in the year, you know, in the twenty twenty twenty twenty
one year. So if you want to look at what was allocated to the
state's primary of KARE development or it was less than twenty percent of their CAPEX
project and for the airport it was about you know, that was spent for
the projects for the primarialk development part was less than five hundred million, and
if you look at the implementation it was still loss up to twenty percent.
So you cannot now say that it is your family not to spend that so
that you prioritize airport over the the healthcare of you, you know, twards
three millions that you have in your states. So it's largely the prioritization problem
more than it is problem. So in effect just became a number of states
spent more by a number by proportion on an airport than they spent to educate
the students of a number of states. This is a choice that the states
made to spend more on an airport than the indication of this is the same
with their boring and all that. I mean, it's it goes back to
remember when mister Shaw had comes on a space and the question was the Nigeria
have a spending or revenue problem? And I always say Nigeria has a spending
problem, not a revenue And if you give as the facts and the numbers
to back it up, Nigeria has a spending problem. It's a choice to
spend it at the airport than the divisional children. And we make that choice
every quarter. Do we do it? And then we say there's no revenues.
So the facts and figures guys have, this debate is settled. We
have a spending problem in Nigeria, not really a revenue problem, but we've
got more revenues. Would build a bigger airport. That's what I'm I hear.
It's a show just to come up with if I dive into the states
by states, performance don't want to highlight a few states. You mentioned that
this report was based on health. Why health? I'm still it's not there
asking me to take that question any if shows not why health? Oh okay,
maybe, but I would just say we're going to a different semantic view
of first I was telling to principles not a news strategy, and the part
about new strategies to social sector accountability. We're really really people, so just
for accountability. So we wanted to look at health and education and were more
specific. Second was also because we were looking about health, say that you
know, would treat health like a social experts whereas small an investment in terms
of productivity of countries to say we're invest the roads, which is school school
with the big courts. That health is also like infest when to keep it
out. So but both a different things that I said, experts, productivity,
investments in education. I think this time we just feel like with the
open leveling fallout, we have to assuming much more the health. But you
have better than you know, please go ahead. And I don't want to
go into two states. I want to do two states or three, but
two states on my Margaine, just go ahead, yeah, thank you.
So I mean really decided to look for, you know, the magic area.
You know that also speaks to you know, a lot of the interest
of persons in office at moments now. Anybody butment now will tell you that
they have a revenue from publand. You know, they are trying to see
how they can reach revenues. Is not enough revenue two you know, spend
on govern many programs and projects. But what they feel to see is that
there's a direct correlation eversed from correlation between health and educational outcomes and economic development.
Economy as a kiss me I studies are right for countries that have better
additional outcomes, better health outcomes. You know you you would see that,
you know that correlation between between that and the economic growth, and so you
cannot tax you know, basic composition. You can only tackle population that is
healthy enough to look for fine work and work. And so if you if
you maintain it, focus on elth you do not see all the other contribute
factors that you know add to productivity. If you look at your numbers to
be after the last count which was twenty twenty one when the unism close and
it or something was done, one in every ten child born in this country
does not leave to see their fit paty. If you look at our montality
as a kiss name, seventy percent of Nigerian women right, you know suffar
from during pregnancy so far from anemia which is a low iron out and often
times than not that's what is usually you know, glantly responsible for hemorrhage,
who's part of their marriage, which are fully dilegates of pregnant with and so
these things keep happening and you're not looking for a way to address these things.
Flags women who in a lot of you know, communities across at the
Federation, rural communities you know, have often also found themselves to be bread
bringers of their woods have lost during child So there's a strong correlation between health,
nutrition, education, and economic development. And so states needs to begin
to see that investments in these areas over time, would you know, results
in a productive population that you cannot tax, you know, raised revenue speech
you have maybe a primary you know purpose are coming into official at the moment.
So, I mean, that's a good point. I've never looked at
health as tying health into what's it called economic growth. Was at education but
not really help. So if you could emphasize that your persession has just mean
to me that health itself should also being as an investment, not just education
in terms of growing geper capital of the state. So good point. You
raised the India Not to be honest, look that way before Okay, it
was it was it was. I mean, it was sort of estimated that
if we're not able to address I pola when it happened, right, and
he was able to ten gates our health system, we would have lost two
percent of ati pula as well as I tell you I Bula was addressed.
I mean this sort of this is outbreaks are usually identified at the both called
primary instances because local centers, when these outbreaks have many communities, that's our
such respondents these kinds of cases. And so if this centers do not have
your pass into detect you know, to prevent and respond to these outfits just
you know, just sort of this is outreks, you know spread you know,
am the population and in lockdown like you have only twenty twenty becomes giving
it and so what happens you're economy in light of that. So that's why
it's important that states movement prioritize the health security. That a very very strong
link between your capacity to respond to detects you know, this is out bricks,
you know, is and your economy as as the case for that.
Goscha, Okay, so let's I think I have track it back. Let
let's let's talk about some states. I want to talk about of course I'm
biased. I want to talk about abbas state. I want to talk about
legal state where I live. Just to highlight the report itself before we go
to the etho, grapra is a part. But if you look at at
the person I see here is overall this clup of man's rank of fifteen out
of toty six, he says death sustainability rank thirty out of toy six.
So does that mean that in terms of death sustainability abias real in the bad
spot where thirty out of is that's what it means? An okay, Still
at recommend their treasholds from right amilidress or so for like the personnel cost to
revenue, it's recommended that it should not be money. Your personal costs should
not be more than you're more than sixty percent of your revenue you'll get to
to our revenue to should not be more two hundred percent. So we have
that those pressures for the four different indexes. But looking at the profiles of
the states, what we want to choose to focus on, you know,
beyond the ranking needs to be eble to look at states that you know have
a large quantum of dollar denomilated dates and situated that within the current for a
next change regime, and our usually goals. For instance, because the diferentate
of legal states as it is as Stember it's pressed twenty twenty two was more
than accumulating four in dates of twenty four skids and so by the dollar you
know are losing its value from four forty uh nina to seven seven one Maraghan
we destroyed because it's without even acquiring any actional dollar nominated dates and grows orieeds
by more than three hundred billion, and so at that sort of tells you
that post games, you know that a week having appetize for acquiring the large
nominated dates, they would might need to check it, especially within the context
of the current foreign exchange and the five states there are legals do cross river
and bou and that's correct, what is about going in? What is crossing?
And if they do ask cru what's doing for five hundreds to the three
millions foreign? Yet does this include like they are still where is the money
going? To have an answer where the foreign debts she is going to?
You will have a sense. So we do not have this sense and this
is not just the mostly with the state problems. We do not have the
sense of what exactly exactly you know this foreign loans are used for except for
the project type loans. There are some projectid loans that isn't that's okay,
we're getting again for specific projects, but more broadly a lot of times to
borrowing and not time to specific puget SOS can borrow to buy pass house of
our several members. The States can borrow to build an international center if that's
what because of that bird and that's a problem borrow to one de agreement citizens
as we have seen in the number of kids found the organization. But I
appened to go out, you know, Christmas is to on the relig needs
obvious. I wish start to be issue around prioritization because if he allowed answer
a little bit of that, please go ahead, so I know for all
the public for legacy of SA Yeah that questions to get treasure, I didn't
I find in the top three for the name said the top five. So
they've been there for Cadler. I mean it was the every five years.
They also had some boring that they took previously pre verified period for Zia Watersking
project. I know that if you remember, there was a spark in the
National Assembly between the former Senator Shows Sunny and the periods governor on the victory.
Because let's not forget that for every foreign death is eight six must be
approved by the National Assembly. So there was a pushback that some of the
said it doesn't not pushed back that the lincol shields and I think that was
part of the sparking their polletic but also took some side. If you look
at the numbers to some sizeable look foreign debt and then some of them was
from the Islamic Bank, some of them from from the If you also look
at Legos Legos as traditionally always adding for that world bank that pform that bout
is the one that's stund in reserving. What not yet understanding with bounty borrows
because most not realize that they co bit stones end in ethets even if for
federal location is when shared in the shad that traditional revenue, they don't they
don't get their power of the revenue in effects. So definitely were huge cost,
huge impacts on their on their on their repayments because they would have to
be playing back in there. So it's really very important and instructive that the
pay seasons extra atension because I may state not borrows so much improving in ferndand
and maybe it's something of short there, but they have to play back quickly
or high interest suits. There will be challenges for a new government that comes
into play to be able to perform at all. And that's where the silent
resign field powers are banded because state page they will not do to but I
invested even do that was from the less sea to get rivers are quite from
a do anymore. These are all oil goes in states. I get it,
But what's can I do with forty one billion? This is total death
now across the both local and foreign. It will be interesting to see what
they did with this. With this one. It's I can say, yes,
put foreign a local. We've gotten a good bang for our book.
Say yeah, uh interesting? Where are they talk about again? Now?
Was on the total revenue growth. Now we're talking about the death's talk about
about revenue and again talk on the infographics the subnationals together total revenue growth.
This is one I'm in able to pickure mine on bayas the state has gotten
the total that is number one to the top total revenue grow to the two
percent. What I did see when when you talk about bios states in terms
of their y with fact and the very very low down. So what's happened
small small polis the states? You know? Perhaps why do you think why
so there are revenues from kuror cannot form the states without them borrowing. I
mean that they're like maybe treatable in bios and if I consider yeah, thank
you, so I mean a biostrastic it's all of the revenue you know,
comes from center azation they did. They're not doing too well on the internal
generative revenue. They also have a relatively high operating expense and so that's why.
So what action due to to the proof is largely you know, dependence
on what the books as center rivas and they are made the tith you know
that uh tiven de ambition. We considered idea because if there was resource control,
probably that money that should have approved to the states if these companies were
dealing directly with the stip. But our methodology does not allow us consider the
transfers because we think it's often no, it's no bestot of yours that you
are helding that much it's just by the fact that you have all on the
nature grounds that you have bele fitting from that getting percent. So at this
point, maybe later on when we think that the posting or also codes,
we can't do that, so you know, but at this point in time,
they're not able to consider that. As you know, part of the
idea. And so what you nowsy is that these states had or has a
very high dependence on flat revenue or federal transfers. So in the year like
coping for Restance where the taps were shot, is that that happens when you
want here it is it's like by us that would have been bankrupt because you
know, there wasn't going to revenues from oil activities to one the borjet of
that particulars. And so one of the key messaging we always have here on
yeah, is that states you know, need to you know develop or improve
their domestic resource mobilization capacity to win themselves of the dependence on our federal transfers.
And something that went with it, I mean a man pretty previous administration
of any conversation from my high rest German. I mean, they're joining a
lot of reforms around uh, the attacked regimm you know considerably when the last
few years, I mean, you mentioned something that's struck me. That's the
tax the tax goal of the states. He's sort of that he wants a
great to the point where he would attend fact meetings out of respect and I'm
not a lout of necessity. And so what that tells is that the animo
states, he's sort of that he wants to be able to throw the revenues
internality point where whatever comes from fact he's seen as an additional right that you
can now use to even know that you know, but programs, and I
think that that's something that everything is aspired. Listen, look at track.
How are you guys able to track projects in serie varieing states like by Elsa
that they have to go on the boat or even states like the desert states
like your Big Way have to go like miles on a camel to local government.
How hard does this and do you need citizens to basically assist you in
tracking these projects and have to reach places. It's something that you think would
make your job more should we say easier in quote if you've got that citizens
porter or something like that. We currently have the program called Community Champions program,
which are basically chairs across state, six states and the city about one
four hundred and ten years and ten people. So we have state officers who
directly are the ones that are going to travel the projects, and the state
officers collaborate with community champions. So for areas, for instance, we've had
able in Cartina and Kevin. In some places that are in security very rife
in some local governments, people who leave their work community champions that we trust
because when we board there's a lot of embodying going on and some periodic trainings
stay at the ones that give us this information and some ways we verify this
information to know that okay, yes this is correct, then that is what
we use. So we we where we are even distructured about work is to
have a situation whereby we don't have state officers anymore, that the citizens who
are going to be the ones doing this tracking, doing this feedback and doing
this report is that all we would us do is just give them that platform
to be able to put So we just recently revamped our mobile app and it
is currently on bios, on app Store, and on play Store. It's
called Track and Mobile. So if you download the app and you pick your
state or your local government. But you are going to see the projects the
furtherer government projects around you in your states and your local government, and you
can clip on that clip on the projects and given comments and also have pictures
to say, oh this are this and this is the objects. And also
we have a place where you can submit needs. So if there's something that
your community or your local government's needs, you can just give put out the
information supported by pictures, or if you don't have pictures, that is also
fine and we will take it off and send it to the stakeholders. We
are also working on onboarding government to use the app and need to see the
common as government so when they are object or projects or needs to come to
from people in their complaces or their local government, they are going to be
seeing the directly. The look I just all on the app. Like if
I have my app and go to my village, I can look for the
nearest federals in my local government, go there, take pictures, track it
them just because I can do that myself. Yes, that is very important,
so you can do that, guys. I want to let you speak.
I know if you guys have been waiting to speak. But last question,
I do have you speak. I'm looking at the chart here it says
total educational spending capital. Number one seat is niger seat. The last sea
here is you'll be I can understand you'll be insurgency. But the second last
seat is equity. How does a cut state the number of professors have the
last and the maderation that spends on educational capital and then of course not just
states prop to them. I don't number one thing in terms of total educations,
right, And I remember with those states last year, he did them
like a bomb, you know, when we had very you know, released
in data to say that they were spending less than four hundreds narrow capital on
you know, on education and healthcare. And after you know, the reports,
and this is credit to the kids, you know, they reached out
to see how you know, they would be able to prioritize the states more.
But what I got from the since I go from all of that conversation
was that were not really pay attention. So the impact of the decisions only
indicators like this, and so the mom in their faces, the more I'm
able to pay attention to this, and I want the greats about a locating
resources two areas. You know that the large extents will improve, uh,
realize our livelihood of the new that you know, the theself because a lot
of times they're not able to draw these linkages, you know when they are
when the dishion making is happening an around resource and vocation. So I don't
think he would be different in the place of the entity with the benefit of
hindsight that they would never say that of the truth what we actually spent in
the years you know that was this, so that that would be my response
to that question. So I'm do you know what to be to be able
to ask you afinitey of the lastic moment? What's the government at times?
For the president of this government right, they want to do as prioritizing you
know, the very bigaro sausages of these kids in areas. That's how potential
to improve their lives and livelihood of the people. Just gotcha point while taking
let me try the flock open now to folks. I want to ask quessions
thank you so much for which I know few. You've got the flow.
Please go ahead, sir mister a right, go ahead, so you've got
the floor. Go ahead if you're not ready. I'm going to get free
free. So if I could get one of our team members world, maybe
it will request to speak about God spend one of us Cora and I think
any hosts your co host a look, make you guys co hosts, so
you can just bring them on board. Yeah, and the fairy question,
so let's let us get a let me get free debray b the grat b
if you can go ahead on the me. Thank you so much. Allo,
everyone high, the high, mister Inni, tracker Io and the rest
the listeners. So I work with projects, so I'm just here to provide
support and maybe just gave a little bit of more context, just like any
said, you know your question relating to the curiosity, I mean you're curious
curiosity as to why he wasn't spending how much education. So in a lot
of states, I think are not or state governors have a a challenge.
And this was something that was said, you know, almost explicitly by the
chairman of the Nigeria Governors Forum during the Just Health Salo states, you know
you have political considerations as to where your money or to go. Are you
going to try to please your in quotes loyalists and you know, lobbyists and
people close to you, or are you going to please the people in general?
Are you going to prioritize investments that have long term horizons or are you
going to prioritize investments that have short term horizons? And really it's been coming
up in the comments you and any end stibig I've been making over the course
of this conversation. But I like our listeners to really understand that these are
essentially political questions. Every decision that a governor takes or does not take relating
to infrastructure, education, health, water sanitation is a political decision, and
ordinarily stay houses of Assembly, you know, who are the on boatsmen or
the oversized body ought to query and critique this. You know, you should
say, looking at school enrollment, looking at infant mortality, we say that
our state is either following or rising. Why you're not doing X? You
know, But these conversations usually never arise because of the nature of politics in
Nigeria. So I think I'll just alieve that. Thank you, excellent good
point, A good point on that. Let's get the agreed name. But
I get right you go flow, you know, I think right here,
Yes, I mean apologize, yeah, agree with everyone. My lad is
young. I a the g IP department for booget and very goodly. I
want to say thank you very much for doing this, for giving us the
you know, blending us your platform to also speak ableout things will be very
about and also the work that we do and ensuring that transparence and accountability is
the bane of governance and one of those tools that we use to ensure that
we get transparence and accountability in governmance. This goes froent platform. Just like
Ms Shaw said, I compliments the track patfrol and what this does basically to
show you exactly what the government is spending on project and I was paid to
an MDA, and I was paid to an agency, and I was built
to a private contractor that was spay doing business whatever you basically shows you you
know these transactions and allows you to be able to track them and are currently
One of the things that we're trying to do is to trans sie uh.
You know. Part of the analysis that we've done is to analyze so how
much exactly is going to private own companies, how much is going to interview
laws, how much is going to you know, how much are the countrys
are being done with those descriptions, because I mean we've seen a lot of
things involved us towards payment by intradial government and all of the things that you
know, makes this very interesting is that currently we're even doing the Fellowship program
where we have journal two of journalists you know, using strict resources on the
platform to tell investigative stories. So they follow this stone from how much was
paid to under studying way exactly at the beneficial hollness of these organizations our exerty
company, where there are do process in place when this particular contrast has been
because we understand that from some of the things that we're seeing an example that
which I'm not to see the government for companies the net of our own realize
that sometimes at the square right. But then, I mean, one thing
that makes this in the first thing is because from this central of you know,
the cultuarial platform where we get all the data sets that goes to the
girlfriend platform, what we've seen is that they also have started been more attention.
For example, where we had forty percent of our you know, payments
that had scriptures from the last analysis went down to to just just as just
five percent of those pumas we have descriptions. So what we've seen is that
then people are starting to pay more attention to distance and that they're starting to
ask more questions as towards how their funds are. The steps and the one
thing that I mean beloved always appos how do you manage so much you know,
so much data set that you know it doesn't get confused. And what
we've done is we've aggregated you know, platforms ware. You can direct through
from that platform, paralyze the data, use the data for anything you wants
to do. And to get this platform only just need to do this w
good, go spend. What we what we're trying to do is rus next.
People know that there is a place where you can see how much comment
is straining I mean from from not just being a project. What's going to
payment as it will? Thank you very much, good points. Good points.
I thought on that princess family take above states with here all the time,
So good point. King got the floor, Go ahead, King Austin,
all right, this is a beautiful platform. I was really really really
hard working when I heard the other speaking speaking about in speaking about the primary
health centers the states there in how you know government prioritize a needless to speak
projects, you know, leave our primary health centers in history, but I
wanted to I would like to ask questions along that line, and I need
more education. I would like to know who is response responsible for primary health
pas centers and what is it that we can do to ensure that you know,
primary health centers and developed. I am from Inmo States and from away
Animal States, and my primary health center is in shambles, completely in shambles,
and I've been trying to get answers to answer to this question, who
is responsible for primary centers and what can be done to to ensure that you
know? In local government like my my my place does not have just work,
but multiple that have functionally. Thank you very much, so any you
want to say that that is asking who is responsible? Is another federal government,
I mean federal medical. It doesn't have a better in front of it.
Who wants to take We are the state government and responsible for that right
for the primaries in this seat being a directing which is where we have the
fe sees and all that the states and the states are distal speeches at the
General speeches a number state gofference as well. So basically the federal government,
I mean the m PC right now is in charge of the region. Our
policies are not insured. That's thinking of memental compliance at this points. You
know, in terms of taking care of those primary health case censers, they
are basically responsibility of the statement. MM. So that's another question. Give
answer. Yeah, it's probably just coming up. So he was asking what
can be done. The idea is that the way you have a primary of
your center that exactly of the pervieal of these states. Maybe you would have
a local government being in charge of providing personnel, but it is overwhelmingly under
the authority and scope of the states, the Statehouse of Assembly, the executive
secretaries of the various primary health care and development agencies or healthcare boards. You
know, these are institutions, the executive government himself, the Commissioner for healthynessities.
These are the people that should be approached, that should be questioned.
You know, speak to your representatives a hard time. We need to have
real life discussions about what to do. Yes, we can talk about these
issues, but going into the field, what is it like? So you
know that because over sights is you know, joined by the State House of
Assembly monitoring and oversights. That's one place to start. The State House of
Assembly, you're elective and representative. You know the chairman of the Health Committee,
for instance. These are people you can write, you can come under,
you know, a group of concerned individuals, or you know, go
through civil society organizations that are working on health projects in your area. And
you can even float in private members. They will on private they will in
your partner to increase the number of your environment healthcare centers in your stage.
But I mean these are the points of contact, if I would say,
basically the starting points where citizens need to ask questions for Supermo, citizens need
to ask questions where you know an attraction can watch maker and super super good
good call, let me go and roll in here, go ahead, Are
ladies, gentlemen of any more given me the opportunity to unlet my voice and
thanking budgets and the cruel for what you're doing tracking the the expenditures revenues of
states all across the country. I think I'm just my sucess here is I'm
not an economist as a disclaimer, so I don't I don't plan to do
anything pertaining to as a as a citizen of the country. I think I'm
not concerned basically about how we want to practice the American system of government,
and we do not practice the letter. I've never seen the state in the
United States going to the federal government every month to panhandle to beg the federal
government and to give them marked salary, a wage like doing my jour,
which I consider as a semposcal federalism. We have to truly practice federalism so
that everybody can sort out their own resources, I mean, like their own
revenues and things like that. But I think that's just the autistic. Part
of what I'm really concerned about, also is that maturity of the state and
government are not responsible because of political experience. It Once they get into the
government, the first thing they do is to take care of their cronies.
But you know, like on those days, for instance, just how many
hubs for the states legilators the same thing the federal government, what do they
need that of those cons that money could have been diverted into something else,
like when we're talking about the primary healthcare center, uh, the education from
primary to such borg to taser institutions. You don't have money for your barney
assue means of promising for our legislators, what are we doing? I mean,
these are the questions that are being asked over and over again that we
have misplaced by orgies as both states, federal and local government. So if
we do not take all these things into accounts and really evaluate how we govern
ourselves, would definitely come back over and over again to talk about this alas
this inefficiency of government. I'm doing a good job tracking all of these things,
but mind, I want you guys to also, you know intensively your
ets in calling them out more often than what you're doing. Yeah, Ron,
it's well said, well said. I'm well said. No, I
mean, well, I'm on your side. I mean, imagine if we
didn't have these guys, if we didn't have Tracker. We didn't have but
we didn't have all these folks on social media, we didn't have Twitter.
Imagine what would have been happening to then we know where I'm trying to buy
stubs because of social media. Now we're going to second steps. They won't
say, let's don't track the allocation in the past World War projects. You're
located the budget posted when he goes, nothing happens. Years ago we had
to go for the go for war win fall. They said it was twelve
billion. No one knows because no one tracked it. No one has any
report. There's nothing today it can happen. At least will know what was
spend. We can just go to opek online and give up Nigeria and we'll
have to wor Nigeria's So we're going from that darkness. There's light in the
tunnel, there's FOI Now I think citizens in social to do good. This
is doing good. This is basically no social good. This is our own
quote unquote way to protest. If you don't have money, at least spend
on the poor. I know everyone is grazy in the United States. Remember
in the United States, Congress was had a stinger opression by the FBI when
we're buying hammers from a thousand dollars and both for like a talent doors as
well, and the FBI went to Congress did a sting or members of Congress
and exposed it and so this died down. So now just are not more
corrupt. It's just that in the West, their institutions are a bit more
powerful, you kindly just go as a congressman there and then have some budget
and just take the money and put in your fridge. They will arrest you.
But here you seeing that there's this humility of consequence. You know,
you do whatever you want to do, nothing happens, so you know you
do it again, and if you keep doing again until something happens. So
I'm on your side, sir, thanks much for commenting. Don't Yeah,
I got your sir, eBay dog you wan Hebeke came met Yeah, nobody.
I mean I'm looking for and I don't know. I think it is
more question since the numbers numbers and the number of generating ant has three building
and taking don't invind a numbers early. It is my kid on the job.
And then I see and then also didn't mind that I also have to
be in a number state and gating taxing video. You don't think it's the
case. I think that's is it in the condition or many and most possibly
the question is I think I got you the experts, I hear, the
experts I hear, But my ticket is I g r A is a record
of the inefficiency of the government, not the record of the weld that could
be collected. So if you look at the IGI report, you see states
like you' be doing better than a number. Ub is in a war zone
doing better than a number Ubi. And I'm not just not an insult to
the folks in Yubi, but like you said, the largest marketing were in
Africa only tries in a number and Navy, So how can you be be
doing more a number? But Yuba is more efficient in collecting igr that's what's
going on. And what is this efficiency? What's this IGRR? If you
take away DP that you collect from the salary, that's the easy one.
You have got to track commas and then tax commas. So Yuba is able
to track and tax commas better a number and it's not rocket science. Anything
paid in cash is lost. If you go to a number on that bridgehead,
what do you see happening there? They'll stop people, Hey, pay
your ticket, you give them cash, they give you sticker. Once it's
in cash is lost. That same you can have a little sticker QR code
on every boss where the local government guy can scan your QR code and know
if you have paid for that day and that payment you can make and make
that made online to the state government and you totally eliminate out or taker just
the QR code the Gerban wake up, scan his QR code. He makes
the payment, then I says, driving, look at guys, come scanner
in QR code and covering he has paid the difference no cash. If you
did that, you get a trillion in revenues across Nigeria. So igr does
not mean as the reporter here is not the reporter, correct, But I
tracked the efficiency of the government in that state to track revenues, to track
commers as a tax. Don't only track the wealth because if he did,
you will not be hard on the number. I mean, I'm going to
trouble to flow to the guys in the tracker and a focusing padgets to say
what's their own take? Is asked the question what's your own? Guys don't
take as well? I mean the election, So what did you have on
this? I mean, once elections are there one a most strives to consolutely
power and how do you do that? Or you you know, did this
much of my elections like that of collection of revenues from these market your mobilized
boys, you know, to inputs, your your wote that you're the one
in church of this parks you do that, Okay, what the w is
braised in those places and you said, aspecting those guys because if you really
want that, so colls revenues from those pieces, you have the entire instrumental
speits to mobilize, you know, structures of frameworks. Expect similar Shasic college.
Most times the guys who call it if you if you check the guys
who are really able to pack the impacts on your packet. H true,
I mean that's just that's not not not more to add. Look at Legosty,
we say Lego city has got the biggest ig I didn't Legosty before the
long when the army was there. Once that Legosa did well was this single
college is ts C Lego long term ago tsa type account where even if you're
paying for legos work, so you're paying for last month, you go to
the bank and you pay before legos to you just they collect cash. But
now you go to the bank and you pay. And that's that was the
way of let's it enter the bank. If it's in the bank, we
can then track it. Once you collect cash for anything, whether it's in
America, or Nigeria. That cash is lost once you collect cash, trust
me. So when once that cash is funible, it can't go anywhere.
There's aty today is shoes. You can you can do your transactions without cash
with SMS, even without a band. There's no excuse. Everyone has a
phone. If you don't have a phone, you can do SMS. You
don't have a bad account, you can make payments. So there's no excuse
for any state, in any localment to be cutting cash from anybody. None.
It's just in case we want to see the bit of it and give
to their friends. But shure you've got the flowster, We'll still got track,
We'll still got bullets it. And we're talking about the still the Steeds
report. Talking about the report. You've heard them explain how they come about
it. And we're trying to now ask questions if you guys have on how
you guys can participate in the google they're doing. But I should go for
it to question is this mister Innis who says sorry you have famous it's pronouncing
you know the day? Is this I noticed when you say that, miss
that's the problem with prior prior prioritization that get prioritization of what should be done.
Now you notice the states that doesn't have good hospitals, good God of
money are beauty church. The states that doesn't have good schools always has money
to buy jyps for traditional rulers, keeps for also perseably members. How can
we really emphasize that priority should be priority, what should be parity, what
everything how to be created in social First of all, we don't care whether
your revenue is big or small. Our business was being a good ship,
our pictures was being good because before our schools was being okay. If you
don't have money left, but you don't buy a car before hospital, you
don't buy route for traditional arena before fixing our schools. You do bot a
broadfall and what is it called? And training before making sure that we have
medical equipments. This would give me and thinking that everybody was to this before
you come do this. You know, I don't know if there's anything like
that on ground one for that because we don't make it. Stay sticks as
what I ask you, I want to okay, I think I'd like to
speak on that. And that's one of the reasons why we do not superatize
project tracking and one of the things we do is simplic education. Honestly,
it's said too weak if a lot of times will be going to communities,
and many times politicians also invest in what they feel will buy them good will
you want and what they feel will get them re elected in the sacond way.
People are also always looking for the quickest remote they can get. So
if you go to your community as a politician, and you'll ask them,
and we've seen a lot of instances like this, do you want to school,
do you want us to renovate your health center? Or do you want
any environment projects where we can share some cash and share some branding matches or
so I'm telling you more than half of the people in that room who pick
the environment projects. And that is why we've be's saying that environment projects take
the kick when it comes to a lot of distance educational and health. There
are investments that they do not guarantee quick returns. There are investments that the
retails might take more than five years before you start see you, and so
that is not enough time for impolitician that is a long time panditician who need
to good for either the next election cycle or at least need something to keep
him in the good graces of people. So I think another thing we need
to beyond us plan worry for the government to prioritize this spending. The government
also want something that give them in office. So if there is if there
is a what is it called, if there's a joint voice of citizens that
this is what we want, trust me, it will actually be done.
They are way to prioritize that that post. That is why you see that
there's a lot of funding for traditional leaders for recently communic religious leaders. Why
because the people vote vote sway. They would swear over words, community things
and the decision of the communities, so they try to in by them.
If the people did not have power, politicians will try to be settling input
traditional leaders or community leaders or what have you, or usual leaders. So
because so it is what if people are asking for that, they will give
you. Basically that your your community is see for this, they'll give you
this. If a committing request for that, they'll give you that. We
have a situation in a body. I think it's good. The place is
gone. I don't want to I don't know how to pronounce it. I'm
something where the community has been suffering from They had a very bad room their
talk for many years and in this last election side we had to educate them
that this is something that you have to tell your elected leaders that this is
a priority or you're not going to vote for them. It wasn't two waiting
if we tell this politician that you have to give us this or not vote
for you. But if we see the vote and in consit is going to
the letter community. But they're still to their chances and the politician actually aside
them, they give them demode. So we tried to say that even as
citizens, a lot of a lot of times we are shortsighted. And it's
also maybe because of the prevalence of the probactaries. I'd rather pick something that
I get right now, maybe five thousand our cash over and where I'm locating
and exactly where I'm not directed to remove. So there is this before the
educational constant. It's a big problem. But I think that puma also have
to come from these citizens. It is what the citizens demand that the government
is also going to prioritize. Thank you. To the point is if you
don't talk, if you don't put pressure, they'll build airport if you put
pressure, they'll put water pipes. You want water, talk that you want
water if you don't build their airport. True, you've put the floors and
go ahead. Job. It's a nice space. I have to come in.
Beautiful work you're doing all the especially giving and we've all been advocating for
some love transparency idea the government. Yeah, I listened to I listened to
Bastia's submission. I also listen to the restaurants from trying to first of all,
let's stop that appreciates you. This is something we needed, This is
something we are orgentially needed. You know. You know, the centralization of
demands on the Federal Republic or on the government of the federation is usually overburdened.
You understand. Nigerians just go out most of the times to critter the
federation rather than actually looking into the estates, you know, looking into their
local governments, you know, undergrass roots et cetera. So, yeah,
this is very very welcome developments because now it's opens up a whole lots,
you know, in terms of little details that we often overlook as people.
You know, we now know who to address, who to question you.
You can also you know, with the live feedbacks or the prioritizing prioritizing updates
on feedbacks regarding projects that have been awarded. You know, the people can
actually give scuse with regards to this and particularly know whom to question should things
goes south. Yeah, So that's that's one very credible advancement. Then,
as regarding what Virtue asked, I'll still have to take us back to the
rule of law. I think if the rule of law is more realis more
rigid, is more more steady, more practicable, than a whole lot of
uh misappropriation would be put into check. Yeah. And another thing, as
track I had mentioned, is the concerns of the people. You know,
you actually have to be indicating where it's speech in you for you know,
people to be away, yet it's pitching you here and willed to address it,
you understand. So yeah, that that's very very necessary. As adizing
uh allocating, it's just so sad like dragon that are given those facts regarding
their education is not future prioritize because people look forward to returns and to be
honest, when we've been an education for critism and you look at an aggregan
system and you ask yourself how many graduates can they actually humble? How many
graduates can they actually engage? So most times when you come up with education,
it's like, uh, that's something that's not priority. Well, in
real sense, it's actually is key priority alongside healthcare. Yeah, so I
also I checked out that that's from the draft of paid so much. Let
me get you to land true go ahead? Yeah, okay, Actually those
from the track of page. And I saw projects you know that I'm ongoing.
For instance, I saw education empowerment programs for people regarding officially in both
operations and things like that. Yeah, that's pretty cool, but it's also
gonna be real nice if we can get feedbacks on this project. You see,
most times in Nigeria, to be honest, our news are not usually
complete. It's always news. Use news. News needs that then follow ups
very very minimum. Is like a situation where we need news and then we
actually have to fix dates with people and call them back and say, hey,
we fixed the dates with you. How far with this project? Like
what have you achieved in terms of better men for likely food of people and
the interfederation? So yeah, I would commend, but then yeah, we
need to fiedbacks, We need recurrent updates to we get matters not just updates
are where the stand, but you know physical effects regarding the standard of life
around where they've been implemented. You know, advancements and so and so.
Thank you, good points there, I hear you. Thanks for pull.
No, guys, what about testaments to go and go? Let the track
guys go and Georgia weekends about less than Testaments to go and then will call
today. So let me get I'm I'm at the floor right here, go
for it. I mean, I mean, are you are you an old
boy? It was like you're an animates guy. I'm mean go ahead.
Oh h h yeah, it's you. So my own question because I'm more
over you know, I mean, I'm not an advocate of states if you're
opin their own governors in your own states particular like become see if we really
get attention to the states, we know that that's where most of the collective
efforts are mentally to be experienced. But we are not paying attention to the
state. And sometimes if I see people comment, I will just be laughing.
We are joking with a lot of things. Now, my own question
is easy that because I would say something I won't try and said earlier that
people believe that, Okay, educational heralds are long term through the people always
are okay, okay, it's something I want to see that immediately, so
I know people are always okay. I want to get it done. I
want what can I get from this, you know, political or right now,
because I cant term for the fact that something actually for instance, I
know the colleague of mind Mingle and I grew up legers and negress that you
know, we never even have anything to work in the stake at for something
actually put on some thely you know, and I can vouch for like almost
like twenty people ten people who are trying to went through the secondary school and
you know, proceed to the state university across the Nigeria institution. All they
need to like is, you know, maintain a good rate and they get
paid for their school fee. I mean just for them to you know,
focus on their study and really come up with good Really as long as you
can come up with good rate, you know, to have the tendency to
really key into something of the beneficial for you as a farm. Because I
have the forstance throughout my mind, you know, unerstic you know they is
every year get paid. During my time that was almost and it's more like
a rainbowment. As long as you know you get it on marriage into exams.
And that is for the states across all the federation as long as you
are illegalship. Let me tell you this simple act is a long term investment.
The governors or the state government doesn't have to go and needs people to
know that this is what they need to do. But surely we fail to
understand something now that they tends it by many politicians knows that these people,
they know the way of the people. They don't even need to go to
that place. Yeah they can actually ask, but they need to be visionary
themselves about certain projects they have to bring to a place. What particular thing
is that people need and don't want to really develop that place. And I
can tell you, for instance, in most of the community now that you
can virtually see or have someone while in every household who is doing is trying
to pull the second person in that family out. So it's it's more I
still prioritize human development, even if governments can be able to put more of
your effort in that human mean human developments. You know all, I believe
that's so many things change. So how are these people funny? Who are
the templates? I wish they they're going to use to run each of the
states. We can't do something, you know, I meant, I mean,
I'll be sure to get your question. Are you are you asking the
tempic for the governors or the elected? Who does declared? If you can
give me one? But is that? What is that for us to answer?
Is that? Okay? Okay? What I got from that was in
terms of tracking their promises. And I'm sure if I'm if I got that
right. If if a god says I'm going to build the road as a
promise and he gets into office, I don't usually look at a problems,
look at the budgets he has said he wants to he implements or the pursy
formulates to implement his promise. If you don't see that, that's the first
thing that you know, Okay, this is already off. If you compare
specifically, if you compare the go and download the whole agenda of the president,
compare what is said about that? Can we did a space so they
we did, we wrote about it. Compare that with the budget that has
been released right now. There's no correlation with the building a huge housing stock.
We did the coupling the benchmark from the oil pride. It's so different
what was in the whole agenda and what's in this budget right now. So
maybe that's what you're saying. But I'm just just agreeing with you that we
have you have to hope put to account at the very beginning. If bo
gets away with saying things, I'm not doing it, we suffer. So
in a way, I'm agreeing with your noney. You've got the flow noney
line of money. Hey, go for it. Got about how about fifty
minutes ago? Go ahead, talk about I think of that politics. Politics
are actually different. It's it's it's the game on its own, like for
the kids. One number of state man numbers is one very funny state that
I remember visiting. And so they are trying babbles Oliver back and somebody actually
walked out to me and said, I had two people holding back. I
never believed back on the interior, but I got to understand that they are.
They are different. Whose politics have been relayed in these states, like
for example, my Anambrasty. They are setting people that are only setting markets,
that collect revenues from those markets, and those people have voice that work
for them. Not when it comes to elections. Those people that collect those
money, I can bet you that they are always the first people to go
to pulling units to boot. They are end meetings because that's social believing.
So any governor that comes in actually knows that is how these things work,
these persons and deliver about that for me. If then because question for you,
question question, question for question for you, questions for you, questions
for you, just to asking when people you wants to go this happened,
Yeah, this happened, this event. Yeah, people, I'm asking you.
I'm asking about my money. I'm asking about the how the the parks
paid the folks in power. I'm asked what I'm asked aboubout the I know
about the tax an amateur for walking, you have to pay poll tax.
I get that. I'm asking that when people was the governor, where people
going around most parks to collect money to give to the government. Yes,
actual money, money money. Person has to be able to trying to think
that you're thinking about re election. Yeah, when we're talking about the artising
that and I think the mentality of the people have actually the politics and I
remember having a meeting and we have to do it beauty center, church center,
just that you have to give to travel difficult actually because it was just
center. The big hospital there is your facilities project that was actually none.
I will ask the question, why would you offer trut in the church and
the health center. Don't you like you do? If you don't, let
me let let let let let me learn. I know, I know I
got you, I got you. I must saying you opened, I must
say you offered. I'm saying that if you tell a Nigerian church or money,
if you choose money, you're a devil. So it's a wrong choice.
That's making a joke right there that if you're asking Nigerian to choose to
church and going anywhere, if you choose you after that is you're a devil
worshiper. So it's in a way if you have such school or what I
want to include church everyone, it's like when they get married, they tell
the girl to go and take one and they put dollars, they put the
arrange, they put your I don't pick one, and the girl gonna pick
bible from the whole pile. You know, if you don't pick Bible,
why you say that your marriage is not going to be all that you you
know? So wonder head. Yeah, but let's let's drill this down.
But Lego state right has more of an entrenched pack. If you see this
Agborough packed collection thing, anyway, they clean the top a bit to where
it is now. I still insist that if you use technology, because who
is pain? The people are pain. If you use technology, you can
get around this motor pack whatever whatever whatever. Like I said, there's little
QR code where you receive all payments. I'm not saying you should not pay.
You can actually tell the person that you can pay, but you can
get ten percent or twenty percent or whatever it is collected. You can't do
that. But the point is that we all know that ninety percent is gone,
not I from ten percent. So that's my point. I agree with
the collector. Okay, if you collect a media will give you ten percent
or that's enough for you. But to say your best date is making more
idea than number states, on the face of it is a joke and we
all know it. So that's it's fun. Number to six that okay,
unity and antech an tech using tech, I mean we have tech. So
you thanks so much, guys. Thanks welmost running up, I've got think
think right. Your hand is up to go ahead. We've got about go
ahead. Think right, and now on the floor for the think good for
go ahead. Your holder is very looser. Think think. Let me get
Google Google go ahead. Okay, thank you, yeah, thank you very
space really happy. I'm always happy to talk about the country that comes from.
For I would like to just make a few comments and asking you a
few questions, but I'll be very brief. First of all, is the
role of insurance in the Nigerian economy, what it makes use at this point,
seeing how businesses are collapsing and closing, to actually look at recapitalizing the
insurance industry to see how we can we need to get some of the challenges
that businesses are facing, and of course the three of the capital for other
things that once. Secondly, look at the possibility of accountability that is not
within our power, but I think work to the largest and if we can
get more Nigerians to get involved with I won't say politics, although you cannot
separate politics from the economy, and that's why it was political economy before.
Now it's through this. If long get the politics right, weever difficult to
get the economy and getting politics rights doing things are gone in Nigeria. Now.
We cannot abandon the country. We just have to keep doing our best.
And how do we do our best? I think we should create a
mechanism to let the police gupers know that they have to be accountable to the
people. They have to make sure that the public office is held for public
books. Okay. I don't know whether polician answers together to talk about the
average Nigeria. I don't know whether as they start together to ask themselves,
how do we put people out of poverty? And when I say that,
I mean genuinely because most about to get on the table. You know about
more important things like health and education and things. So how to improve the
quality of life and the great new realities people? That is what through in
responsible countries. So to be honest with you Google, to be honest to
shoot Google right. I think politicians everywhere are the same. I've never seen
a political system. I know in America they collect bribes. THEO in America
collect bribes. Partians collect bribe. They get into office quote unquote average guys,
they leave multi million years. But the difference, I think again is
the institutionality of how America works. How if you are caught with dollars in
your bader on video, you are dolf. That's a difference there. And
yet you can collect lobbing, you can take being with the collars. They're
really cause of their own bride. They call it law being right. But
if you are caught with free with dollars in your fridge, you have don't
here, you cannot you can be seen. They said, if you show
us a video or people taking money from the CB and vote, But who
said what he said? So it was the voters that said this. If
you show us a video of the guy taking doors from there and the guy
true Treu went to CBN and took to the trade trillion ay because you guys
told so. I don't think it's the difference is they take if you do
stuff there, you are done for. Here you're not done for. So
if I was, if I was a politician, why wouldn't I print tonsarde
trillion? If I'm the president tomorrow, I will print one hundred trillion and
start to spend you guys can be crying, I will spend it in this
this then arrest me that I didn't build the road, but I'll build the
roads and the rest. So this is the thing about Nigeria. You know,
we we want to copy, you know, but we don't have institutions.
Today. I'm a bit afraid. Today in Nigeria is the day we
arrestaurant that has mount Then I would say, oh, but this person did
this, Now what happened to him? Well, that person did this?
Now what happened to him? They have to say, oh, that was
because of I want to see what will happen? How will ravel or rap?
Most of these things would have said that. Okay, in the country
where you know the impunity is, it's this this incentive, this incentive.
If you want to invest in the country where contracts are not should we say
adhere to where the particular class can do and don't do. It's a big,
big, big risk for you. Where you can invest money and tomorrow
the government can create a new law. Not in the new law just close
down the business by feat why would you invest? And this is the point
you're making yoursel on the second part, you know, So it is the
insurance against governments. The insurance when it's government insurance, I ensure your visits
that youve government persed new policy, will pay you back. That's a very
very good insurance policy to ensure your this against government's policy. But they are
apart from that. Nas don't buy insurance. We have life insurance insurance.
Just buy auto because by police, they don't buy life insurance. It fair
to pray and hope that they will not die. We're all going to die,
but nobody buys life insurance. That means it's so simple they're going to
die. Since in the age buy life insurance when you're younger. Once you
buy life insurance, you instantly have that access. Insurance is the only product
that you can pay in Nyra and get a million guaranteed god ran seed.
But no one does it because if you buy life insurance, that means you
have print that you die, and we don't put that. We want to
live in a name and well we laugh, but that's how we look at
it. Don't write it will, don't do estate planet because you are inviting
a demonl of debt to your heart. That isn't that will. So let's
us hold. So we have to change a bit of mind. It's not
to hold the governments account, but this the individual Nigeria and has got to
be a bit more to demand more and our own selves change our own selves.
Might not to say government did this, goverment did that? Our own
selves. You know what are we doing about ourselves? We are the ones
that said stake the money from the CB and we'll see votes for you I
need from the CPN. So let's just get the last folks here. We
hold the spaces. We hold the spaces every Sunday, seven pm, wet
up again time. All things being equal, next week we're gonna do FX.
We're gonna do. That's what we're gonna do. Export, all things
being equal, let me the last one. So I'm going on to these
they track our folks to go and just kill it. This so the last
things we're going to be. I wasn't I go to go ahead, I
go to sorry all the time. And the measures gross domestic happiness not all
these idea atys. And it was so fascinating as the financing to see how
long we start thinking about gross domestic happiness the country financially developed there. So
I was not from delta states. So I was looking at that idea and
I was saying, well, look at the auto sets. They didn't do
more, they didn't do bad. Then I looked at the gates I had
stuck, and I remember gross domestic happiness we have. Delata State is arguably
one of the states with the highest depressed people. So one of those idea,
I was saying, a bunch of concom both stories. We are depressing
Auto states. Nothing books, no road works. I look at our track.
Let them do more. Starting Juta states did nothing nothing, absolutely books.
So maybe idea is not a good measure of things of the canomic development.
Maybe you start going to all those countries to see how the major growth
domestic happiness to really development. Because of the economists, I need to speak
what you're doing, do you because they've decided growth domestic happiness versus idea.
I just wanted to I think I don't know, I've just exaggerated it.
But our deaths, it's thinking us and mismanagement like it's sad. Anyways,
thank you, and not to not to put what on your butan comments,
but that's not a country. All this quote and quote not remember will say
quids of trouble. But Butan is a unique country. You know, small
tighten it very esoteric, so I would understand why they would call the happiness.
I mean, GDP is one of the many ways you can measure economic
growth. That's g N right. You can measure water supply like Tracker has
done. I'm sorry reporters don't the states of state that focuses on health.
And he did mention that you know, looking at health and education as investments.
I just look at educations and investments and helpers cost. But you need
to saying, listen, health and education. I really do know the stimulants,
you know, the things that you put that put that allow that state
to then grow and develop. So we have still like a kitty not investing
in education. That's what's coming up now in a row. So I get
to a point completely, and I want maybe someone from Tracker can come up
and answer the point about data state and not being tracked as from data don't
look good lots of income, but I think there are number three in terms
of the ostability, and the data balanches is not balancing. So I know,
if I'm any or Tracker or anyone from girls give us a point about
the data states that will maybe closed the space out on them. Anyone trying
to up I would like something from but I say track out, you know,
anyone, just give us a word on on data. No one taking
once you need Thanks for your film, Yeah, commune, like you said,
I think you went off in it is dropped off. So let me
miss solution. Yea question. I think the point she was making was that
she went to Bhutan and they were tracking across domestic happiness. I think over
all points is that just focusing on GDP or I g R might not capture
the full spectrum of how the society is living. You know, I could
have a very very high GDP and be unhappy. Then she went specific that
in Delta State, Delta folks are unhappy. They have a lot of revenue.
IG is high, but debt is high to set trackers normally tracking Delta
State. Those are the comments around there. I've got a shown back,
I've got you. You're gonna take it off, please go ahead. What's
the difference. What's the difference to us? Tell us difference that we could
follow. Okay, So growth national income measures how much people earn, you
know, on our average, how much is earned by you know, all
the number of workers and later outputs in a particular country, as opposed to
roothmestic for aucts that looks at so these are very simplifying definitions and opposed to
gly looks at how much has been produced and how much it is worth.
So I get you know, her issue with aloys looking at GDP and you
know, to a real large extent, a lot of scholarship has been trying
to move away from GDD. One of the reasons being that, you know,
growth has been said having limits for technical conversations the day. So the
idea is for citizens to really define what they want and this is what federalism
was meant to answer. Someone mentioned this earlier that when we practicing the ideas,
speaking about of the realis really think about a different Back in our history.
You say that all the states in Niger were creations of military governments.
There were not creations of symphony of civilian governments. So for me, that's
kind of interesting to say that would Nigeria be in Nigeria today if we did
not have you know, a military government that could create states of fiat,
you know, if we had to go through a constitutional process of creating states.
You know, this is not talk of like the midwords gnagion becoming a
becoming itself from the southwest. But you know, the States has really not
then today. So citizens need to be able to define for themselves what they
want, what is their future, what is their destiny? And it's meant
to be particulated through political parties. Physical parties are meant to be aggregations of
interest that are taking a step further and vira office you know, and you
know, and perhaps through appointmenticine what have you? So in an should like
sound saying that how do Deltons see themselves? Where do they see themselves being
in the next few years? And what type of politics or how can politics
answer that question? I think that's where, you know, the conversation needs
to start from. When be through political parties, would it be through campaigns,
will it be through advocacy? The issue is actually about advocating interests and
then going forward in that in that direction answers the question. It's just a
conversation starts with I think I think a great conversation to have around that.
She hits her points, yeah, shows back on that. Okay, So
guys, I'm going to go on called the day. Sadly, I think
we think look an iPhone, iPhone fifteen. Do you got to put the
rich and powerful? Yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking that so much down
to first thank you specifically for most in the space, and like I believe
that you don't grade work, go back to more people to us. Our
interests is the same play that public resources should work for the people and issuing
improve the quality of life. That's just all our mission that people should take
information and we certain to cover accountable. How ISBIS as you know we have
but it has like two fifty to sixty thousand followers. The reason more people
can hear our message follow the information we again, because that's only in the
way I don't know we can do the working punctry. We know we have
elections, we know we have sh nity list, but the only one is
that whatever we have right now, we have to make it work for us.
Because you can see that. Thank you sir. Just let me just
thank everyone of your team from Tracker to you, to everyone that has come
up here to speak and ask the questions. We do. Appreciated. We
are we have to be a data driven you know consumer, right and will
have to be the driven voters. And that's the whole idea. We have
to move from the complaints right to following up this GUIDs with data. You
have been given money to spend, Where did you spend it? You have
been giving the plan, you said you're going to do this, have you
done it? Why are you not spending money education when we have more money
than the other state. Why is that state not spending money on schools and
the other states in our region are spending money on schools. We have to
ask these questions to the politicians. We can't get angry. We have to
ask them and demand an answer, and what they don't answer, we go
vote for someone else. That's how it should be. We've got to hold
people to account, and it's always important that we hold people to account.
So don't complaints, don't say it's all over, don't despair, because in
the end, it's only here, this only in case we have right.
So that's basically it. So, guys, thank you so much for spending
time with us this evening A said, we're always here every Sunday, set
Opinion. We're talking money, their counting personal finance, and we're also trying
to make it personal, to break down that language to how we can understand
what's going on. We've heard a lot happening all through the week. The
four Ks, the plans that they have for the Forks are borrowing. Hopefully
we can talk about that as the months come ahead. But we also to
leave you it's more information that you came into the space, so you can
have those conversations and perhaps share with the show makers that you know, so
change can start to happen, right we have to grab it and we have
to change the narrative around the country. So Nadal, thank you so much,
but it's tracking the rest of the team. Shout you guys. Thanks
everyone that has listening today. I'll see you guys next week. Have a
good one and bye. Thank you so much, thank you very welcome.
Thank you Da