1 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,600 Welcome to episode twenty seven of Get Out a Live, a podcast where me 2 00:00:17,719 --> 00:00:21,800 your host Ashley every other week tells you a new animal attack story and me 3 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,920 your other anxiety written host Nick tries not to ruin the whole thing. In 4 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,320 some weeks he does, and it's fine. I think those are the best 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,280 episodes, the ones where it's just like, Okay, well Nick, you're 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,679 not in this one. We're cutting you out. It happens often. So 7 00:00:37,079 --> 00:00:42,600 today we are talking about a species that was voted for by our patrons at 8 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,799 patreon dot com slash get Out a Live Podcast. You can also find the 9 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,320 button to our Patreon on our website get at a Live Podcast dot com. 10 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:56,560 And we have a fantastic guest with us today. I keep getting lucky that 11 00:00:56,759 --> 00:01:00,560 such cool, smart people follow me and I follow on Twitter. I literally 12 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,640 just typed an elephant and she was like the first person that came up, 13 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,799 and I was like, this is a beautiful world that we live in. 14 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,359 I don't know how you find these people. I just told you, I 15 00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:15,000 just searched like the animal on Twitter and then it just everything looks out. 16 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,959 Yeah, it's awesome. If I search beaver right now, will you pop 17 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,879 up? This exact moment. Yes, you were the most popular beaver poster 18 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:29,840 in the world at the moment. We won't go there, so people tell 19 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,079 the people what's happening. I want them to know what's happening in real time. 20 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,439 Okay, So my cousin owns a wild life rehab. Her rehab is 21 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:42,200 called a new House Wildlife Rescue, based out of Massachusetts. She recently got 22 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,799 in a very cute baby beaver, and I posted a picture of it on 23 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,439 Twitter and said, like, this is the beaver my cousin just got, 24 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,000 and like post a link to her rehab and whatever, and it hang on. 25 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:57,840 When we started recording our interview, which we just concluded with our wonderful 26 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:02,840 guest, it was at twenty two something that ticted to me two hours ago. 27 00:02:02,959 --> 00:02:07,360 Is that eighteen thousand likes? So now it's at fifty three thousand. 28 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,599 That's ridiculous. This is insane, insane, it's going up as three thousand. 29 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,120 It's a pretty cute little beaver. I don't have Twitter, and I'm 30 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,960 gonna see it somehow, I guarantee you. I've lived in towns that are 31 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,240 like the population sixteen hundred people, so that's really weird to think about. 32 00:02:23,759 --> 00:02:28,520 Yeah, this is many, many times that it's gonna be over our hometown 33 00:02:28,719 --> 00:02:30,479 by the end of the day. Oh easy. I mean, it's a 34 00:02:30,479 --> 00:02:32,879 really cute little beaver. Check it out. It's a really cute beaver. 35 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,280 Yeah. Yeah, what a great text on it, Like there's an awesome 36 00:02:37,319 --> 00:02:39,800 catch. Yeah, I said. PSA, beavers are now officially the cutest 37 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,599 baby animal there is. And it's great because the comments are either people being 38 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,520 like yeah, or people being like, what about this cute little animal? 39 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,840 It's it's really nice. So I texted this earlier. If I ever decided 40 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,919 to start getting too social media again, it's just gonna be pictures of baby 41 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,759 animals nothing else. Yeah, that's a pretty good, pretty good plan. 42 00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:00,080 So if you want to check it out, you can check out her rescue 43 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,199 at new House Wildlife Rescue dot org. Yeah, i'll post that in the 44 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,919 I'm pretty sure we've talked about her before, but yeah, I'll post the 45 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,560 link as well. Anyways, back to elephants. We're talking about African elephants 46 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,479 today, and specifically we are talking to Lynn von Hagen, who studies African 47 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:23,879 elephants, specifically Savannah African elephants. We'll get into it conflicts in Kenya, 48 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:29,599 and we're going to keep this relatively short and stop talking about baby animals because 49 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,400 the interview is so long. We had so many questions. Thank you, 50 00:03:31,479 --> 00:03:36,199 thank you, Thank you to our patrons for asking questions. You all ask 51 00:03:36,439 --> 00:03:38,639 awesome questions. We could not get to all of them, and some of 52 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,319 them just came up naturally, but we tried to shout out as many of 53 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,319 you as we could as it was happening. There's one thing I want to 54 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:50,199 cover before we get into the interview, and that's rangers. So we talk 55 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,240 a lot in this interview about rangers in Africa, and rangers like that means 56 00:03:54,479 --> 00:04:00,000 different things everywhere that you are, Like even in the Northeast there's game more 57 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,319 Horton's rangers. They're different jobs but very similar. So in Africa there are 58 00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:11,680 like anti poaching rangers, but there's also according to game ranger dot Org, 59 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,360 game rangers go by many different titles, so like game Warden, game ranger, 60 00:04:15,439 --> 00:04:18,079 conservation officer, SAT park rangers in a national park exactly. Yeah, 61 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:24,759 but they all have the prime responsibility of ensuring the territorial and biological integrity of 62 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,480 the protected area under his slash her management it's pretty intense. Uh yeah, 63 00:04:29,519 --> 00:04:34,160 we'll hear about it. It's they're so badass, and I will find as 64 00:04:34,199 --> 00:04:39,560 many links as I can to teach to give you more info about them and 65 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,639 how you can support them. And with that, let's just get right into 66 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:48,360 our interview with Lynn. Hey, everybody, my name is Lyn von Hagen, 67 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,439 coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, where I've lived most of my 68 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:58,079 life. I am a final year a PhD candidate at Auburn University. Actually 69 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,639 have about six weeks before I defend my dissertation, So pretty excited. And 70 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:08,680 I have been very fortunate to work in Kenya with African elephants under some really 71 00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:14,680 great mentors, doctor Bruce Schalty and doctor Chris Leipsick, through both my masters 72 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,879 and my PhD. My masters is at Western Kentucky, and as I said, 73 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:23,279 I'm now at albert University wrapping it up. Very cool. Congratulations going 74 00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:27,079 to be doctors. That's awesome. Thank you. Six weeks till doctor Lynn, 75 00:05:27,519 --> 00:05:30,360 that's amazing. Yeah. So what is your thesis like title? I 76 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,920 think that's the thing. Yes, So the title of my thesis is that 77 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,519 again, because it's not a thesis, it's a dissertation. The thesis is 78 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,560 Masters and a dissertation is PhD. But I still to know the fall back. 79 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,399 So the title of my dissertation is Drivers and Consequences of Human Wildlife Interactions 80 00:05:46,399 --> 00:05:50,439 and a Transitioning Landscape of rule Kenya. Well this is perfect. Boy, 81 00:05:50,519 --> 00:05:54,879 Do I have the podcast for you because they talk about this all the time. 82 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,319 So, like, have you always been into elephants or did the opportunity 83 00:05:59,319 --> 00:06:00,160 you just kind of pop up and you were like, that'd be a great 84 00:06:00,199 --> 00:06:04,000 thing to study. Well, yes, and yes, I've always loved elephants 85 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,959 since I was a little girl. I've always just been attracted to like their 86 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:15,000 intelligence and their complex social structures and their communication abilities. Elephants are a very 87 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,920 beloved species. So I'm certainly not alone in that. I'm actually a non 88 00:06:17,959 --> 00:06:23,120 traditional student. So I started back to school about twenty years later than most 89 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,160 people, so it's never too late to go back. After I finished up 90 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:30,120 my bachelors, I was like, Okay, I love science. This is 91 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,480 where I need to be. And so my mentors from my undergrad were, 92 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,959 you know, looking around and said, hey, we know this professor in 93 00:06:38,079 --> 00:06:43,000 Kentucky and he works with elephants, and so he had actually just gotten funding 94 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,600 for a project, so of course I was, you know, knocking on 95 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,639 his doorstep. That was doctor Schulti. He's worked with elephants for over twenty 96 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:55,720 years and worked all over the world, these amazing biologists and was the head 97 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,800 of the department there. So I applied and actually was lucky enough to get 98 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,959 positions. So then we were off to Kenya like six months later. Oh 99 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,600 that's so cool. Yeah, it's a dream job. It's really I bet 100 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,160 I still pinch myself a lot of time, seeing as you spent a lot 101 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:15,600 of time over there. How often are conflicts with humans and elephants and kind 102 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,920 of what do they look like when they happen during crop seed and daily it 103 00:07:18,959 --> 00:07:24,439 can be you know, it depends on which area of Afterhurian. I'm specifically 104 00:07:24,439 --> 00:07:30,360 in Kenya, the southeastern portion in East Africa and in Kenya where corperating is 105 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:35,920 a predominant form of conflict and it happens quite often whenever there's crops planted. 106 00:07:36,439 --> 00:07:43,680 Elephants know they're they're ready to alter their foraging patterns and it's like putting candy 107 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,680 in front of a baby. They love corn, or maze as they call 108 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,839 it. There they're very sneaky about it too. They will wait until dark 109 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,759 when they know that there are less people about, and they will head into 110 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,639 the farms and eat everything they can and take back off. It's not the 111 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,199 only form of conflict. There's a lot of drag out in Kenya and other 112 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,600 places in Africa as well, of course, so they will sometimes great grain 113 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,680 stores. If all the water holes have dried up in the natural water sources, 114 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,879 they will go into communities and puncture tanks and not tanks over and just 115 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,240 try to get water and things like that, And a little bit about the 116 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,360 language of conflict, if that's something that in the last few years people have 117 00:08:20,439 --> 00:08:26,000 been discussing a lot more, because most of the time the actual conflict is 118 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,199 between humans. It's human to human conflict, because it'll be people who are 119 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:33,919 frustrated that elephants are coming to their land and who are at odds with the 120 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:39,679 wildlife agencies that they feel are not you know, protecting them or the government 121 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,039 or you know, whoever is managing that area. So a lot of people 122 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,840 have moved to saying human wildlife or human elephant interactions, and of course those 123 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:52,759 can be indirect like cooperating. A lot of times farmers don't actually interact with 124 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,240 the elephants, or it can be direct. A lot of farmers will go 125 00:08:56,279 --> 00:08:58,279 out and you know, engage elephants. In many parts of Africa, they 126 00:08:58,279 --> 00:09:03,360 will chase them. They do it in our communities as well, and so 127 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,840 and then there's also a lot of indirect impacts, which is part of the 128 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:11,240 focus of my dissertation. Stay tuned for chapter three in a couple of months. 129 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,240 But there's a lot of cascading consequences. You know, the biggest thing 130 00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:18,679 is this in our specific area and in a lot of places in Africa, 131 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,639 but in East Africa there is a lot of drought and farmers are really challenged 132 00:09:24,639 --> 00:09:30,200 by climate change. You've got droughts, higher temperatures, other things that are 133 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:35,600 issues, such as diseases, poor soil quality, planting the same crops over 134 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,240 and over. So food security is the big issue, and a lot of 135 00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:43,320 people are living in poverty and do not have the resources, not only to 136 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,320 you know, build a fence or something that would help deter the elephants, 137 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,159 but you know, they're struggling to feed their families, they're struggling to be 138 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,320 able to pay school fees, they're struggling to be able to, you know, 139 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,120 afford medical care if they need it, So the last thing they need 140 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,320 is an elephant. On top of that, and taking whatever they grow because 141 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,080 most are subsistence farmers, meaning they eat, but they grow and if there's 142 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,240 any leftover, they'll they'll sell it at local markets. So most do not 143 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:16,039 have electricity, running water, transportation, bare bones resources. So it's a 144 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:22,200 huge issue for people's livelihoods and their food security. That was a long answer. 145 00:10:22,759 --> 00:10:26,360 I know, I love it because it was very thorough because yeah, 146 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:30,240 I mean, there's more than just one kind of conflict and there's a lot 147 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:33,360 of different factors. But I guess to go back, so when you and 148 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:35,679 I were talking over email, like getting ready for this, you mentioned that 149 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,519 there's more than just one kind of elephant in Africa. So what elephant are 150 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,000 we talking about? Are we talking about both? And is there different conflicts 151 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,240 between like that the two face with people. Well, there are actually three 152 00:10:48,279 --> 00:10:52,799 species of elephant, and it was only last year that the third species was 153 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,360 finally recognized. After you know, any elephant scientist will tell you that for 154 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:01,000 quite a while we've known that there are three species of elephant, and probably 155 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:05,960 more than that actually in Asia, but Asian elephants of course, and then 156 00:11:07,039 --> 00:11:11,639 African savannah elephants, which is what I study sometimes called bush elephants, and 157 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:16,440 then African forest elephants were just finally recognized as a separate species from savannah elephants. 158 00:11:18,159 --> 00:11:24,039 So two African elephants, one savannah, one forest and forest elephants, 159 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:26,720 you know, are involved in conflicts, but forest elephants are a little bit 160 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,440 more reclusive and must have much smaller population numbers and kind of stick to the 161 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:37,360 forest a little bit more. So the conflict is predominantly with the savannah elephants. 162 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,519 Gotcha, So what kind of differences are there between the forest elephants savannah 163 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:45,600 elephants, Like why would they decide to make them entirely new species? Most 164 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,399 of it was genetics, you know that that evidence has been out there for 165 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,279 quite a while and people have been campaigning for them to be listed as a 166 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:56,120 separate species. But you can tell there's a big size difference. The tusks. 167 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,840 Forest elephants are a little bit different shaped and kind of point down instead 168 00:12:00,879 --> 00:12:07,200 of out, and some other basic differences to like forest elephants actually have five 169 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,559 toenails on front and four in the back, which is the same as Asian 170 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,879 elephants as opposed to African elephants African savannah elephants which have four toenails on the 171 00:12:16,919 --> 00:12:20,519 front and three on the back, so it's wild. So there's some other 172 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:24,840 there's some other differences too, but the main thing is where they where they 173 00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:28,320 are, so forest forest elephants are in forced at habitats and there's nowhere near 174 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,960 as many of those. And actually, since the re classifications last year, 175 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,360 African savannah elephants have now been uplisted from threatened to endangered. Asian elephants have 176 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,080 been endangered for some time, and now African forest elephants are critically endangered because 177 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,600 they had a much smaller population to start with. So now we have a 178 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:50,240 question from one of our patrons. This is going to be from Amanda Taylor. 179 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,519 Do elephants really remember everything? And I think they're spent on this. 180 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,200 Do elephants remember people who may have harmed them or parassed them in some way? 181 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,639 Yes, that is an interesting question and probably what every you know kid 182 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,399 has always heard elephants never forget, So they probably do forget some things. 183 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:11,879 But there is a big evolutionary advantage to having a great memory being an elephant. 184 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,879 Elephants live a long time, and especially African savannah elephants have to find 185 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:20,480 their way to food and water. And to back up a little bit about 186 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,360 this, it's important to understand the social structure of elephants, and this is 187 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:30,519 the same pretty much across all three species. They live in matriarchal groups and 188 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,279 bachelor groups. So herd is usually ten to twelve fifteen. Sometimes if they 189 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,159 keep growing growing, they'll actually, you know, break off into smaller groups. 190 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,639 There's one female which is usually the oldest female, and she's the matriarch, 191 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,960 and she's going to be the one that leads the herd, makes the 192 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,519 decisions. Everybody follows her, and so her herd is usually composed of her 193 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,279 offspring. So you've got aunties, uncles, cousins all together. But when 194 00:13:54,279 --> 00:14:00,360 the males get around fourteen years old, they disperse, which is really great 195 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:03,279 because you don't want breeding happening, and so the males will go live by 196 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,559 themselves or live in bachelor herds and just kind of do their male thing, 197 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,120 and so then you've got the matriarch leading that herd. The importance of the 198 00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:16,279 matriarch having such a great memory, you know, It's a real evolutionary advantage 199 00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:20,440 for such a long lived species as elephants is to remember where the food and 200 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:26,039 water is because a lot of elephants migrate really long distances. It varies from 201 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:31,159 location to location. Some elephants just locally migrate, don't really go far. 202 00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:35,320 Some migrate thousands of miles. If you can remember how you got to that 203 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,320 water source or that the secondary water source, when that first and has dried 204 00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:43,240 up, et cetera, et cetera, and where the food is, you're 205 00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:46,440 going to live a lot longer. So yeah, So elephants have great memories, 206 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,080 mainly because food acquisitions stuff like that. They do recognize people, usually 207 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,360 from their extraordinary sense of smell as well, so they can remember people. 208 00:14:56,919 --> 00:14:58,720 So I would think that they remember people who were kind and people who weren't 209 00:14:58,759 --> 00:15:03,120 kind. So yeah, if they saw somebody more than once, they probably 210 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,360 could remember. But probably also if they got a good smell of them, 211 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,759 they would recognize the smell. Extraordinary sense of smell. Not such great eyesight, 212 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,399 not such great hearing. They don't have great hearing. Yes, I 213 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:18,519 never would have guessed that. Fine, but it's not it's not up there 214 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:24,799 in their repertoire of awesome traits because there's smell is so extraordinary. You know, 215 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:30,440 a little precursor when we talk about infrasonic communication and seismic communication, they 216 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:37,000 have those methods of communication and chemosensory communication. So I mean, we could 217 00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:43,080 do a whole podcast folks on elephant communication. So like why I have great 218 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,600 eyesight and why have great you know, hearing if you've got five other things 219 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,559 that help you sense your environment. Definitely that's very fair. I want to 220 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:52,200 jump back to the memory thing real quick. You I know you said that 221 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,759 the matriarch is usually the one who's the oldest, But just like people, 222 00:15:56,799 --> 00:15:58,240 I'm sure some elephants have better memories and others there. I ever seen that 223 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,240 a younger elf may become the matriarch just based off of her better memory and 224 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,240 knowing where to go and making better decisions, not that I'm aware of. 225 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:11,159 Most of the time, it is that oldest female because it's definitely a hierarchy. 226 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,039 She's in charge. Something happens to her and she passes away from old 227 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,960 age or than usually the next oldest female just kind of moves up in text 228 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,639 control. Very cool. I guess to go back to what you were saying 229 00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:30,080 about how the herd is structured. Are you seeing or have you noticed more 230 00:16:30,679 --> 00:16:37,399 negative interactions between lone male elephants or female led herds like which is more dangerous 231 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,799 to people. Well, that is very very contextual. Every elephant herd is 232 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,519 different, Every location is different. If you have an area where elephants have 233 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,799 been heavily poached, they do not forget that, and you will have skittish 234 00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:56,200 elephants a lot more dangerous to be around. If you're in a transit transitory 235 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,759 area like where I worked in a wildlife corridor, you'll see they know they're 236 00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:04,160 passing between areas of safety. They'll be a little bit more skittish, maybe 237 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,319 perhaps a little more aggressive. Because I could go over to the National Park 238 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,160 and all the elephants were chill, just walking around. You come to the 239 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,000 quarter, they're a little bit more antsy. There's people, there's traffic, 240 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:22,039 things like that. So it always depends. But you'll see with males especially, 241 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,799 there's a tricky thing called muss and that is a heightened sexual state, 242 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,960 and they will go into musts. Really kind of unpredictable when it's going to 243 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,960 happen. But it's kind of similar to like we didn't hear about the rut 244 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,119 and deer. So if they're in must you do not want to mess with 245 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,799 a male elephant. You should turn around and go the other way. And 246 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:45,839 I've seen it happen and elephants that have been really friendly, you know, 247 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,759 I drive by them every day and then all of a sudden they're blocking the 248 00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:51,839 road and it's like you're in a bad mood today. But but you notice 249 00:17:51,839 --> 00:17:55,319 does start to dribble urine and they'll just be soaked in it. You can 250 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,039 actually smell if you have the window down when they go into it, and 251 00:17:57,079 --> 00:18:03,200 they will leak secretions from their temporal gland and they'll just generally be more agitated 252 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,759 and ready to pick a fight because that's when they're ready to go find a 253 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:12,039 mate and be able to you know, the testosterone levels just explode. That's 254 00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:15,880 when they'll be fighting with other bulls, and yeah, we really don't want 255 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,400 to get in their way. But also when female groups have babies around, 256 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:26,960 no you don't even yep, especially small babies, they actually have this protective 257 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:33,680 behavior where if they feel threatened, all of the older females in the group 258 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,759 will put the babies in the middle and surround them, and I've seen it 259 00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:41,440 happen is amazing. They'll just stick them in the middle and then they'll surround 260 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:47,160 them so that they can have a defensive posture. So the most dangerous are 261 00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:53,240 males and musk and moms protecting babies. But also you have such a wide 262 00:18:53,319 --> 00:19:00,319 variation in personality and elephants. You will have elephants that you know, are 263 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,119 pretty congenial, and you have really cranky elephants that just don't like to see 264 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,799 people. And again that goes back a lot to the kind of environment they've 265 00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:12,000 been raised in. Like in Ambaselli, most of those elephants have been researched 266 00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:15,720 for decades. So a lot of those, you know, you can drive 267 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,119 really close to and they'll not be alarmed. Gotcha. And I totally forgot 268 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,240 to mention that question was from our patron ness, who makes very cute little 269 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,799 animal figurine. She's the best, And I was trying to think of how 270 00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:26,880 to word that question. She did it so much better than I could. 271 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,319 So yeah, So I guess would you say that it's not that one's more 272 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,960 dangerous than the other, it's just like context and timing. Ye, exactly 273 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,720 a year, Okay, yeah, cool, because you just and a lot 274 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:40,240 of times you're not going to know that. Yeah, if you're with it 275 00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:44,279 a ranger and experienced, god, they will be like, oh that's x 276 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,799 y Z. He's kind of he's kind of cranky. Sometimes we don't and 277 00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:52,279 that's all. She's really nice, you know. So I'm we're also huge 278 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:56,119 part of this. This podcast is obviously the negative in one kinder. So 279 00:19:56,279 --> 00:20:00,200 I am curious how many people are injured by l elephants every year and maybe 280 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,440 not this isn't necessarily like they're in an attack in any way, but just 281 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,279 kind of accents mean they're huge animals. How many different things can go wrong 282 00:20:07,279 --> 00:20:11,519 with them, you know. Yeah, and it's important to recognize that in 283 00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:15,359 any kind of attacks or conflicts or anything like that, most of the time 284 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,640 it's because somebody was where they shouldn't be. You know, these are wild 285 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,319 animals. You should never ever approach any wild animal, especially elephants. So 286 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:29,119 a lot of times it's it's a situation. Especially there's usually more desks with 287 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,319 Asian elephants because people are living closer to them, you know, you've got 288 00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:37,559 more congested areas and those sometimes there are kind of hard numbers to come up 289 00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:40,880 with, but it's usually more prevalent in Asia. So for example, about 290 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,640 one hundred people a year in India are killed by elephants, in Kenya about 291 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,640 two hundred over like the last seven years. You know, estimates in Africa 292 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,960 continent wide are about five hundred a year or so. That is so much 293 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,000 more than I thought it was, honestly, well, and that's why there's 294 00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:03,279 you know, so much for going into mitigating conflicts. Because elephants are losing 295 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,000 habitat, so there are some populations are recovering, such as the Soho ecosystem 296 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,759 where I work, the elephant population is actually growing, so they're coming in, 297 00:21:12,079 --> 00:21:15,480 you know, they're moving back into areas where they've been you know, 298 00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:19,759 poached out of, and they're encountering your people more, especially with habitat loss. 299 00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:22,920 You know, human populations are growing, so it's all these things that 300 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:29,279 are exacerbating these potentials for them coming into contact with each other where they maybe 301 00:21:29,319 --> 00:21:32,880 wouldn't have before. And most of the time, also with any wild animal, 302 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,079 we have to say, you know, this is the preaching of the 303 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,519 choir here, you know this, but like keep your distance, if you 304 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,400 leave them alone, if you don't harass them if you're far enough away and 305 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,119 just let them go about their business. Most wild animals, special elephants, 306 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,880 don't want anything to do with you. They're just going to go about their 307 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,079 merried way. So most of the people who are injured or killed it's because 308 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,440 they have not known an elephant was there, walked up on it and startled 309 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,079 it, or they've done something stupid and you know, are on safari and 310 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,160 get out of the vehicle, try to get a photo or something insane. 311 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,880 There's hardly ever any situations where elephants. Elephants would never go into a village 312 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,799 and start attacking people. That's just not what they do. They don't want 313 00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:11,359 to be around humans, you know, unless, like I said, it's 314 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,519 a nice environment. So it's usually unfortunate encounters that end up meaning the cause 315 00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:19,519 of injuries and deaths. Yeah, and I guess a good piggyback question that 316 00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:25,200 would be what are some behaviors that an elephant might show you to exhibit the 317 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,640 fact that they're upset or uncomfortable with you being so close to them. Yeah, 318 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,680 there's lots of those, so most people can't say they didn't know. 319 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,359 But one thing that I have noticed Elephants do not like surprises. They want 320 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,200 to know you're there. They want to smell you. They can see you 321 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,079 from a distance and know you're that you're there. They're going to be fine. 322 00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:45,799 They're going to move away, especially if you're in the vehicle and you're 323 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,880 approaching quicker. You should always be within a vehicle or with a trained guide 324 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,839 or ranger if you're out on foot, because they know what to do. 325 00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:57,880 But that's the main thing is never surprise an elephant. But they do do 326 00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:03,400 a lot of behavior, and if they're not in bust and they're not protecting 327 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,880 a young one, they will usually give you like a series of warnings. 328 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,359 One thing is they'll sometimes swing their foot, which is like a sign of 329 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,160 indecision, like I'm not gonna do here. They'll start throwing dust, they'll 330 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,359 do they'll curl up their trunks and they start getting more agitated. They'll actually 331 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,119 like flare out their ears, which makes them look bigger, so it's like 332 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,920 a threatening posture like hey, you don't want to mess with me. Then 333 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,680 the next stage would usually be like a head flap. It's kind of like 334 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,880 this, like they shake their head really hard and their ears flap around really 335 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,039 big, and then if they're feeling particularly that, they might do a mock 336 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,039 charge. And this happens a lot where elephants will just run up to something 337 00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:45,759 and stop, don't want to be there. Yeah, I'm sure that's pretty 338 00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:49,240 effective. Yeah, you don't want to be around that. And then sometimes 339 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,599 they'll break branches. I had a situation once where I was driving not that 340 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,039 close to an elephant and it was a mother with a new calf, and 341 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:03,640 she ran up to a big branch and just headbutted it and that branch smashed 342 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,000 and went flying everywhere, And that was just her showing like, yeah, 343 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:11,440 don't don't mess with my babies. And they also like aggressively eat. I've 344 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,279 had an elephant I found in Musk once who was normally a really cool elephant 345 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:19,480 I saw like a couple times a week, and he was in muss block 346 00:24:19,559 --> 00:24:23,079 the road and then just decided to go and destroy a tree and eat it 347 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,920 right in front of us, just let us know, like, don't want 348 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,559 to mess with me. Of course, there's also like an actual charge, 349 00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:33,240 and usually elephants don't warn before that. Like if an elephant has decided that 350 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:37,960 he's coming after you, he's gonna put his head down and come or she 351 00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:41,000 there's not gonna be there's not gonna be warnings, they're not gonna mess around. 352 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,319 But again that is really not very common. Well it leads perfectly into 353 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,279 our next question. So from there, so from our patron Sophia, again, 354 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,240 if an elephant does decide that once you're dead and it's there with you, 355 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,200 like one on one, is there anything you can do? Is there 356 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,599 any way to survive that? Or you basically just gone. Your odds are 357 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,319 not good if you if you like again, you don't want to surprise an 358 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,440 elephant. But if you see an elephant in the distance, you have time 359 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,880 to very quietly and verily calmly back away, try not to make noise. 360 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:12,240 You don't run. It's kind of the same rule for a lot of species, 361 00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:15,119 like, don't make a lot of noise. It's back away calmly, 362 00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,759 don't freak out and run, don't throw anything at them, just just leave, 363 00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:23,319 leave the scene. But if you're engaged, elephants are big and they're 364 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,720 heavy, and they're not super dexterous, like they have a hard time like 365 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,720 jump. They don't really jump over things. So one might think, well, 366 00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:36,519 I could just bob and weave and outrun them. But elephants have a 367 00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:41,200 really long stride, so you could run twenty steps and ellen elphant could take 368 00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:45,799 one step. So if an elephant's after you, you probably can't outrun them. 369 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,400 You know. The best thing to do is just not put yourself in 370 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,559 that situation. You could climb a tree, they could knock the tree down, 371 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,720 but I mean, you're probably better off climbing a tree because maybe they're 372 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:57,359 going to give up and go away, but they could just knock the tree 373 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,160 down. So best thing is just I don't put yourself in that situation ever, 374 00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:04,640 especially if you're on foot. If you're in a vehicle, now that's 375 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:11,000 a little bit different. You can survive that. Sadly, there was an 376 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:15,000 incident a couple of years ago, sorry last year, where an elephant attacked 377 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:18,160 a vehicle, flipped it and it was a jeep. So the people came 378 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,160 out of it. It was some rangers and they killed one of the rangers. 379 00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:26,559 So if you're in a closed vehicle, that's better, but you move 380 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,880 to the center of the vehicle and try to stay away from tusks. Yeah, 381 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,200 and I guess to kind of go off of that. Have you noticed 382 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:40,960 like increasing conflicts or have you noticed maybe recently more rangers are kind of bearing 383 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,400 the brunt of these negative encounters with elephants or is it just like kind of 384 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,480 anybody, not just rangers specific Well, I think this is a great opportunity 385 00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:53,799 to like give homage to the rangers across the world. You know, yeah, 386 00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:59,839 Africa, but everywhere, because these men and women are protecting our natural 387 00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:07,640 resources and are out there with wild animals every day in situations where we would 388 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:12,279 be terrified. And especially a shout out to our Rukinga Ranch rangers which are 389 00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:17,400 in the cassac Out Wildlife Corridor Wildlife Works head quarters. Those guys and women 390 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,920 are amazing. They patrol on foot, they don't carry weapons. These folks 391 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,119 really know how to read an environment and read behaviors and things like that. 392 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,960 Big shoutout of that. But a lot of times in that situation, rangers, 393 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,480 if they're patrolling on foot or in the vehicle, are simply going to 394 00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:37,440 be in contact with animals. More So, it's just a matter of you 395 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,920 know, how many encounters with an elephant are dangerous or deadly. If it's 396 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,079 one out of one hundred, well ninety percent of the time, it's going 397 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,599 to be somebody a type of ranger. But with croperating, you know those 398 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,480 and you know it's not just interactions with elephants, it's interactions with all wildlife. 399 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,680 You know, as all you know, habitats are disappearing, people are 400 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,359 moving into places and living near nowational parks or areas of safety for wildlife. 401 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,160 You know, these encounters are just increasing. Our next question from a patron 402 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,000 whose name is my favorite Gothic Sandwich, asked, do elephant herds ever attack 403 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,480 in unison? I think this means, like, you know, if an 404 00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:18,480 elephant is charging you, is there ever cases of a whole herd coming at 405 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,519 you? Or is it just like more individualistic. It can be depends on 406 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,160 if you've encountered a low mail in the bush, but usually if it's a 407 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,079 matriarchal group, yeah, you're going to have to deal with all those mamas. 408 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,920 Oh my god, it's not going to be I mean, the matriarch's 409 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,920 going to lead it, her ladies are going to follow her. So yeah, 410 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,440 wow, no, thank you. And same thing with like if you 411 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,039 have a bachelor group of several males, it might be the same thing. 412 00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:49,039 It just again just depends on the situation. Is that really common that if 413 00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:52,960 they are part of a whole group that theylla come after you or is that 414 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,200 kind of more on the rare side of things. It's very rare, all 415 00:28:56,279 --> 00:29:00,880 right, we're talking about you know, there's five hundred proximate desks from elephant 416 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,720 encounters over all of Africa in a year. So how many millions of times 417 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,559 have people had an interaction with an elephant, whether it's a tourist or a 418 00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:15,000 farmer, or a wildlife agent or a ranger. So it's still really really 419 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:19,559 rare. Second question from Gothic Sandwich awesome, has an elephant ever used a 420 00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:25,799 tool as a weapon, like a tree trunk or a rock? Now, 421 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,240 elephants are a tool users, one of the few species that are, so 422 00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:33,200 that's fascinating in itself. As far as I know, there's never been anything 423 00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:37,240 reported of their being used as a weapon. Of course I don't know all 424 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,599 the ligure, but I've never heard of that. But they don't really need 425 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,480 weapons because they have their trunks, and their trunks have about forty thousand bustles, 426 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:49,319 so what elephant's trunk is extremely dexterous, so they can just pick you 427 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,640 up. They don't have to hit you with anything they don't have, they 428 00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:57,160 just pick you up. But they have used tools for other things. And 429 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:02,160 I've even seen it in my study is if they want to get over a 430 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,039 fence or an electric fence, they will pick up a large log, lay 431 00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:08,119 it over the fence, and lock over the log. That must be so 432 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,119 frustrating if you put up that fence to watch that. Yeah, And that's 433 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:18,000 the challenging thing with mitigating these interactions with farmers and elephants is almost everything you 434 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:22,359 come up with, elephants are smart enough to figure out some kind of way 435 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:27,720 around it. Even really large electric fences. There's a population of elephants that 436 00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:33,960 has figured out how to break the wires in the electric fences by inserting their 437 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,960 tusks and then pulling up and so those wires snap and they can just go 438 00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:41,400 right. That's one of the old standard is if you can have a really 439 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,240 big, nice electric fence, but you know they can they can find ways 440 00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:48,480 around that as well. Jeez, And I meant to ask this earlier. 441 00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:55,279 I was talking to someone about like why are elephants so big? What could 442 00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:59,200 possibly kill them? I was thinking, like, what are their natural predators 443 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,519 and are they only vulnerable to being killed, you know, when they're young, 444 00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:04,799 and do they get to a certain point when they are adults where it's 445 00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:07,960 like nothing is going to try to kill them pretty much. You know, 446 00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:11,599 that's why they're so protective of the young calves because that's when they're most vulnerable. 447 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,319 But you know, an elephant calf is born in around two hundred pounds. 448 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:21,359 Lions and hyenas will try to take elephant calves if they're dumb, but 449 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,440 if an elephant calf is somehow separated from the herd, then you know it's 450 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,160 it's more of an easy mark, but it but a full herd of elephants. 451 00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:33,359 You know, most species are not going to try that, but it's 452 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,680 fair. A full sized elephant can can kill a lion, can up and 453 00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,599 throw it or pick it up, throw it, grab it and crush it 454 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,200 with its feet or impale it. So yeah, don't mess with elephants. 455 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:49,519 Yeah, but they are vulnerable when they're babies, but not so much. 456 00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:53,720 I don't know what point the lions would be like, nope, not going 457 00:31:53,759 --> 00:31:57,119 there today, but I'm sure there is you know, a size point where 458 00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:00,079 they're like, yeah, we're just we're not gonna fair at least the smart 459 00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:02,920 ones anyways, and I imagine it's not very long. I mean, if 460 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,119 you started two hundred, you got a pretty good leg up already, you 461 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,319 know. So there's already predators that wouldn't even be able to take down a 462 00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:15,480 two hundred pound baby unless they just worked in perfect synchrony. So yeah, 463 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:19,079 so they have very few predators, and it's usually when they're when they're young. 464 00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:22,119 Now, there are some situations where you may have an elephant that is 465 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:28,400 old or infirm and has left the herd to pass, and you might have 466 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,039 a situation where you have a pack of something or other that tries to take 467 00:32:31,079 --> 00:32:36,599 advantage of that, like if it's sick or or something. But pretty much 468 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,279 they're they're at the top of the urban wars. Yeah, untouchable. That 469 00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:42,880 makes sense. This next question, well, I guess we kind of got 470 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,599 two questions that are similar. So Ambria asked like, how easily can we 471 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:52,920 contract zoonotic diseases from elephants but more specifically sophia and asked, elephant rabies is 472 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,440 it a thing we should be worried about? Great question, honestly, elephant 473 00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:00,680 rabies. No, there was a situation in India in twenty twenty where sixteen 474 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:06,319 elephants died from rabies. That was actually a question I had to think about. 475 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,119 Yeah, but that was a situation where you had to rab an animal 476 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,680 and it got into a park and it did something like that. But no, 477 00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:17,279 very very rare elephant rabies not to worry about. It is possible any 478 00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:22,720 mammal can pass rabies. But the biggest danger from the zoonotic disease from elephants 479 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:28,799 is tuberculosis. They can actually get tuberculosis from us, so therefore they can 480 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,640 pass it back to us if they have it. And I think the first 481 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,799 instance of that happening was in nineteen ninety six, and I actually did a 482 00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:40,480 little research on tuberculosis and elephants. It's much more often in zoo animals and 483 00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:45,920 in Asian animals. Really rare for an African elephant to have TV. You 484 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:52,079 know, as more cattle are out there and they interact with cattle more. 485 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,680 That may change in the future. So very few the diseases we know of 486 00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:00,759 that you can contract from elephants, well, thank god, can't be rap 487 00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:02,640 Well they can be rapid, but thank god they're not rabid. More often, 488 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,159 just like that's just another thing you don't need from elephants attacking the world. 489 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,599 Yeah, so how do the people that live around elephants every day feel 490 00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:14,880 about them? This goes back to what we were talking earlier about. You 491 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,800 know, rural farmers, they're not too fond of them if they come in 492 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,599 and taking their crops. At least in my study area. Part of my 493 00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:24,760 dissertation is working on surveys and seeing how how people do feel about elephants, 494 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,760 local and indigenous people that live in these complex social ecological systems where you know, 495 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:37,239 people are either dependent upon nature or you know, highly interactive with nature. 496 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,079 They really understand the importance of a complete ecosystem. So most people that 497 00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:47,159 we surveyed knew how important elephants were for the ecosystem health, how important it 498 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:51,239 was for the economy, you know, through tourism, and you know, 499 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,719 they just they in general like elephants. They just don't want them eating their 500 00:34:53,800 --> 00:35:00,039 crops. So people very much have respect for elephants, don't mind them, 501 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:06,239 but I think their frustration is like they want the government to fix the problem. 502 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,079 That's count is kind of in my steady area. But those types of 503 00:35:09,079 --> 00:35:15,000 opinions also range depending on where you are. Where there's less instances of conflict 504 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:20,079 or interactions. People are probably really happy about elephants, and it's important to 505 00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:25,679 understand that this is not equitably distributed. Because if you are a urban canyon 506 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,719 working in a city that has a National park next to it, and you 507 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,679 have a great job and a lodge, you can be like, I love 508 00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:37,719 elephants, you know, But if you're a rural farmer and you're having to 509 00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:42,199 lose sleep at night because you have to guard your crops, you're really not 510 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,880 going to like elephants. You know, a lot of times, the people 511 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,679 that benefit from elephants are the ones that are in the urban areas, and 512 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,000 the rural people are the ones that are having to do you know, especially 513 00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:54,679 that live at the edge or near national parks, are the ones that are 514 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,199 having to deal with an issue there, and they don't reap those same benefits. 515 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:00,760 You know, they don't get the tist money. They're just trying to 516 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,800 survive and grow food and feed their families. God, that sounds so much 517 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,400 like the whole predator debate here in the States, like people with wolves, 518 00:36:09,639 --> 00:36:14,400 because you have people in cities like in Colorado, the urban areas were like, 519 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,639 yeah, let's reintroduce wolves and the farmers are like, no, please, 520 00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:21,159 my livestock. So yeah, I mean because we talk about that a 521 00:36:21,199 --> 00:36:23,119 lot, Like there's different cultures. Like our first episode was on tigers and 522 00:36:23,159 --> 00:36:27,280 Nepal, and they are even if tigers killed people, they were like, 523 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,599 oh, just set them to a zoo, Like we don't have to kill 524 00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:32,920 them because they respected them so much. So it's interesting that it's more similar 525 00:36:34,199 --> 00:36:37,159 to like predator ideals here. I mean, even Asian elephants, because I 526 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:43,320 for my limited understanding, isn't it like they respect Asian elephants spiritually. Yeah, 527 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,880 so they're less likely to be Yeah, yeah, they're like in like 528 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,800 in India, they're revered. Eight elephants are also working elephants in a lot 529 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,519 of Asian countries, so they have hoots, which can be a good thing 530 00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:57,159 or a bad thing. You know, depends on theation. But you know, 531 00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:00,559 they're well cared for and respected and things like that. So it really 532 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:06,880 depends on the region and everything like that. But I'm wolf us too. 533 00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:13,239 Yeah, the ecological benefits from restoring whether it's a top orb or a top 534 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,639 predator, are astounding. We could do another podcast on the reintroduction of the 535 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,880 Yellowstone wolves and how it benefited the ecosystem. I would love to. But 536 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:27,280 that's also a really important thing about elephants is their ecosystem engineers, their keystone 537 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:34,199 specie. Losing elephants is going to cause really really rough cascading effects for other 538 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,079 species and for the ecosystem itself. When people say elephants are ecosystem engineers, 539 00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:42,840 like, in what way are they adjusting the environment for the benefit of others? 540 00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:46,119 You know, ecosystem engineer doesn't necessarily have to be someone that physically modifies 541 00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:50,599 the environment. It can just have you know, real impacts. But in 542 00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:53,960 the elephants case, they actually physically modify the environment because they're so big. 543 00:37:54,159 --> 00:38:00,360 So they can like wallows for elephants and other large wars like buffalo, where 544 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,039 they wallow in the mud. They create these big kind of hollowed out places. 545 00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:08,480 These can evenually turn into water holes and retain water. They will transform 546 00:38:09,079 --> 00:38:14,280 forest into savannah by taking out a lot of the trees because they will rub 547 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,000 against them, they'll knock them down, they consume them. Sometimes sometimes they 548 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:21,880 knock down trees just because they're trying to show off, so they'll do that 549 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,559 as well. They will actually dig for water and minerals and things like that. 550 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,119 And part of what makes them a keystone species. Just one of the 551 00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:34,480 things is their incredible seed dispersal. So elephant dung is this magic substance. 552 00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:38,000 You know, think about how many kilometers an elephant might move in the day, 553 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,480 and they're hindgut from minners, so they don't actually digest most of what 554 00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:45,320 they eat. So if they're eating seeds and they're walking around, they're dispersing 555 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:51,079 these seeds everywhere. Studies have shown that there are much more species of tree 556 00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:54,719 in areas where there are elephants and other animals benefit from this dung too, 557 00:38:54,840 --> 00:39:01,000 dung beetles, it's their house. Other things like hornbills rush apart recently deposited 558 00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:04,519 dunk and eat the seeds out of it. And you know, if you 559 00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:07,519 go kick apart some elephant dung's been sitting there for a couple days, you'll 560 00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:12,880 see all these insects. You'll even start to see the seed sprouting, you 561 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,679 know. And same thing with forest elephants. They have that very similar effect 562 00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:17,880 of being, you know, the mega gardeners of the forest. To quote 563 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,239 a paper, elephants are good for so many things. That's so funny because 564 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,320 so Jeremy Montoya, another patron of ours, ask, in a sense, 565 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:29,079 do elephants have mutualistic relationships with other animals? And it seems very much. 566 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,400 So yeah, I mean mutualistic just because the terms mutualistic meaning that they both 567 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,840 benefit. The biggest one there is birds is so birds will ride on elephants. 568 00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:42,199 Sometimes you see those cool pictures of like there's just a crane riding around 569 00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:45,000 an elephant, but they'll pick the bugs and the chicks off the elephants, 570 00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:47,719 so the bird gets a meal, elephant gets parasite control. Now there are 571 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:53,400 some commensalistic to where elephants don't really benefit, but other animals do. And 572 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,559 that's what the dung beetles make in the houses, and like the birds get 573 00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:00,760 in the seeds and things like that. And I guess to go back to 574 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:07,519 not so fun topics, but they're still important. So from what you have 575 00:40:07,679 --> 00:40:14,039 experienced, has elephant poaching increased or have protective measures like rangers for example keeping 576 00:40:14,039 --> 00:40:17,159 an eye on them made poaching less common? Boy, that's that's the million 577 00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:22,000 dollar question, and that's why we've lost so many elephants, gone from millions 578 00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:27,320 to right now there's about three hundred and fifty to four hundred thousand African savannah 579 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,199 elephants for mating. In Africa, for example, Kenya lost about ninety percent 580 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,559 of its elephants. You know, there used to be herds of thousands that 581 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,519 you know roam the savannahs and most of this was due to poaching. And 582 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,920 still about ten you know, estimates vary between ten and thirty thousand are approached 583 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,519 each year. That's about fifty to eighty a day. It's not a sustainable 584 00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:52,840 number. It's why they're endangered. And it's really geographically specific. There are 585 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,559 some places that feel like they have too many elephants, and then there are 586 00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,320 places where it's just right canyon. Then there are places is where you know, 587 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,320 poaching has almost decimated or has extrapated elephants from the population. So there 588 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,400 are places in Africa, many places where elephants just aren't there anymore because they've 589 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:15,000 just been poached completely out. Now in Kenya specifically, they have done a 590 00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:19,559 great job of monitoring the population. As I mentioned earlier, the population is 591 00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:24,480 actually slowly growing. Poaching has been greatly reduced there and yeah, so Kenya 592 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,400 has done a great job, but there's a lot of different initiatives that you 593 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,039 know, we're still trying to make a difference because right now, elephant ivory 594 00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:37,079 is still worth more than gold on the black market, and that is due 595 00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:42,360 to this demand for ivory from Asia. And the saddest thing is most of 596 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,400 that demand is for trinkets, and like ivory's a status symbol, so like 597 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,840 people will make carvings out of ivory and you know you've kind of made it 598 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,039 when you have your first ivory carving. The ivory trade overall has been banned 599 00:41:54,039 --> 00:42:00,519 since nineteen ninety. It kind of peaked around twenty eleven, but China finally 600 00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:06,159 banned sales in twenty seventeen, and there's been a big public awareness campaigns, 601 00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:08,360 you know, really trying to move people away, you know, from realizing 602 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,039 that, you know, ivory has a cost. So it's still probably the 603 00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:16,880 greatest threat to elephants, and there's a lot of focus on you know, 604 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:22,679 deploying rangers and all these different technologies to detect poachers and to deter poachers and 605 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,360 things like that. So yeah, it's still an ongoing battle. And then 606 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,559 probably after that as habitat loss and negative interactions, so lots of threats to 607 00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:35,880 elephants yeah, i'd say, so I find the people who are the poachers. 608 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,880 I find it kind of crazy, Like, how do you even know 609 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,119 where to sell that? Like, I'm sure it's a whole market that exists 610 00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:43,039 out there, but how do you get into something like that to start with 611 00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:45,880 them? It's got to be pretty lucrative for him. I get really frustrated 612 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:52,679 when I see things online about poachers and they're just like those people should should 613 00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:58,119 be hunted down to It's a very complex situation. It's not black and white. 614 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,440 Runs along the same lines of conflict. Most of us here in the 615 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,280 West think that what anybody that would hurt an elephant is evil, you know, 616 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,960 And it's just not that simple. What if an elephant killed your grandmother 617 00:43:08,039 --> 00:43:12,320 last night because she went out in her yard at midnight, you know, 618 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,079 to go use her outhouse. You know what if your kids are starving and 619 00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:20,519 elephants just ate the last of your grain stores. So it's it's not a 620 00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:24,039 black and white issue. And it's the same with poaching because most of the 621 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:30,159 big, large scale poaching of African elephants, it's not small scale farmers. 622 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,679 It is syndicates, it is organized, it is the big guys it's people 623 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,039 coming in with you know, machine guns and helicopters and things like that. 624 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,920 Now there is some I'm not saying that you know, local people don't do 625 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,920 this, but finds for it. You know, like in life in prison, 626 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:52,679 millions of dollars or rand or shillings. You know, your your everyday 627 00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,079 person is not going to undertake that. Same with a bush meat poaching. 628 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,519 Elephants are a lot of times that are left alone. It's just you know, 629 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,559 two much danger, very dangerous. You know who you're going to sell 630 00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:06,199 that to if you don't have contacts. So, like I said, it's 631 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,519 mostly like really well organized. But for bush meet poaching, you know, 632 00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:13,719 a lot of times people can go out and catch a deep deep which is 633 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,280 like one of the small antelopes, and they'll poach that because maybe they haven't 634 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:22,159 had meat in months, or maybe that one of their loved ones is sick 635 00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:23,840 and they don't have the money to take them to the doctor. You know, 636 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,199 maybe their kids about to get cooked out of school because they can't pay 637 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,199 the school fees. So it's a real complex issue that has a lot of 638 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:37,400 drivers. So I just encourage everyone to not jump the gun. Like understand 639 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,440 the situation a little better. Again, we hear in the West have no 640 00:44:39,519 --> 00:44:44,639 idea what it's like to live under the circumstances. Poaching is bad, but 641 00:44:44,679 --> 00:44:47,840 there's a lot more behind it than just what's on the surface, right and 642 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:52,280 trying to combat it. I know they've started dying elfin tusks. Is that 643 00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:55,719 the kind of the main way they try to go about preventing it or are 644 00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:00,320 there other methods they used to I've heard about the dying of them, but 645 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,039 I think that's a really hard operation. You know, you're gonna have to 646 00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:07,880 tranquilize an elephant. It's just it's not practical. I don't know, if 647 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,719 you know. People have been looking at other methods to like figure out how 648 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:15,679 to change the tusks without having to sedate elephants, but that's dangerous, it's 649 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,400 super expensive, which it's probably not very practical. So, I mean, 650 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,639 the main thing is to get people not to want ivory and to not make 651 00:45:22,679 --> 00:45:28,880 it profitable. But there's so much activity around preventing poaching now and preventing ivory, 652 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:30,639 you know, that seems to be one of the best ways to try 653 00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:35,320 to mitigate it. I'm glad we were having this conversation because it's something that 654 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,000 popped up. Even last week, there was a picture going around Twitter of 655 00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:44,000 this white woman who was going over to Africa and was like boasting about killing 656 00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:46,320 poachers and it's like, you have no idea, what's Yeah, it was 657 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:53,480 crazy like humans, yeah, posting it on the internet. Yeah, allegedly 658 00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:58,239 it's Twitter. First of all, you're murdering people. Second, it's always 659 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,800 so frustrating to hear people say, oh, just kill the poachers, and 660 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,760 it's like, yeah, there's so much behind it and you could do so 661 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,960 much to help people, Like it's a systemic issue, not an issue necessarily 662 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,280 with that one person. So yeah, I'm glad we talked about it. 663 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:15,280 I've always said that wildlife conflicts and things like that is not really a wildlife 664 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,199 issue. It's a poverty issue. If your children haven't eaten in a few 665 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,599 weeks and you can go and kill a small antelope and figure out a way 666 00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:25,960 to feed them, you would do it too. So I'm not saying it's 667 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,159 good that they're doing it by any means, Like it's bad. We want 668 00:46:30,199 --> 00:46:34,320 to eliminate all poaching, all bush meat poaching, But there's a story behind 669 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,840 it that you have no idea you know, some of it's just pure evil. 670 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,920 Again, You've got these syndicates that are just trying to go and make 671 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,840 money. You could care less about the local people, could care less about 672 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,800 elephant lives, and those are the real bad guys. But before you blame 673 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,880 local people and you know, there's a bigger story there. Yeah. I've 674 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:58,599 seen like documentary some advice news before about the military defectors and everyone out in 675 00:46:58,639 --> 00:47:01,880 Africa. These giant forces of people trying and take over countries and a big 676 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,679 part of how they fund their militaries is through the ivory trade. Wow, 677 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,119 you think like, oh, there's a soldier's frame for these guys. These 678 00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:12,280 are people who are kidnapped as children and raised in this environment, who are 679 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,320 just told goalkilles elephants. They don't care, They have no connection to these 680 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:16,320 things. So it's just kind of it's crazy. You know, these people 681 00:47:16,519 --> 00:47:20,880 don't really know what they're doing. Some governments, you know, there's been 682 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,280 some scandals where government officials have been involved in the ivory trades. Oh boy. 683 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,920 Yeah, let's end on a fun note and get back to Jeremy's question 684 00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:34,400 about infrasonic communication with elephants. What is it? Why do they use it. 685 00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:37,239 Okay, Yeah, this is probably my favorite topic. Well, I 686 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,519 mentioned the elephants communicate in lots of different ways, obviously vocally, then also 687 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,199 with chemosensory behavior. They will actually stream chemicals from their temporal glands called frontaline 688 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:52,440 and other elegant elephants can smell that chemical, so they might be you know, 689 00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:57,400 depending on what's what the message is quotes. Message coming from that chemical 690 00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,920 is oh, I'm happy and relaxed. You know, they smell and say, 691 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,519 oh I'm family, or oh I'm panicked, or you know, things 692 00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:05,320 like that, or I'm an estress and ready to you know, ready to 693 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,000 find a mate. So that's just one way. Infrasonic is most interesting because 694 00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:14,840 humans can hear at about twenty hurts and above. Now elephants can actually hear 695 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:20,280 below that. So elephants can be having conversations that we can't hear, and 696 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,519 they can produce sounds below that obviously, So think about when you hear or 697 00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:29,840 or outside and like a plane goes over really close, you kind of feel 698 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,360 that in your chest, like you vibrate a little bit. That's what an 699 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,159 infrasonic signal was like. And if you're close enough to an elephant, which 700 00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:40,079 just happened to me once and it was probably one of the coolest experiences ever. 701 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,039 You can actually feel that in your chest. And that is how they 702 00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:49,199 discovered that elephants actually do that because the researcher who discovered it. Oh, 703 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,480 I've just forgotten her name. I'm sorry, but she was actually working with 704 00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:55,599 captive elephants and she's like, I feel this vibration in my chest sometimes, 705 00:48:55,679 --> 00:49:00,280 and then they started monitoring and they're like, oh, my gosh, this 706 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,880 is the thing so cool. So the reason they do it is, you 707 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:07,199 know, we talked about social structure and herds, but there are different groupings 708 00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:12,599 of sizes of herds, so elephants. As herds grow and grow, sometimes 709 00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:15,400 they'll break off. So you might have twenty elephants in one spot and twenty 710 00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:19,960 elephants other and they're like distant cousins, but they know each other. They've 711 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,800 been together. Elephants also come together when times and times that resources are plentiful, 712 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:28,519 and these huge herds of sometimes over one hundred males and mix in there. 713 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,079 You might have elephants that are strangers, but you also have elephants that 714 00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:36,800 are maybe distantly related. So one of the ways that they communicate is through 715 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,159 that, so they can kind of send this long distance signal infrasonically. I 716 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:46,519 kind of melded those two together. But elephants can detect seismic signals from several 717 00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:51,679 kilometers away. One of the reasons they think that that evolved is because they 718 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,719 can hear thunder and when the rains come, so that they can actually kind 719 00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:00,079 of start their migration. Because if elephants are picking up those distant rumbles in 720 00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:02,840 their feet, hey, the rains of comets time to head home. Also, 721 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,639 they can pick up those sounds from different elephant groups. There's been some 722 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:13,440 research about elephants in one part of a park being attacked and then elephants in 723 00:50:13,519 --> 00:50:17,880 another part of a park will show displays of fear and aggression because you know 724 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,679 they're getting that long distance signal. I mean, it's just really neat because 725 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:28,119 with the infrasonic they're just probably right next year having these low rumble conversations. 726 00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:30,519 And then with the seismic, I mean that's why sometimes you see elephants come 727 00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:35,119 up and stomp their feet. That's like another way for that size and the 728 00:50:35,199 --> 00:50:38,800 signal to go. And it's really neat because these signals from the seismic they 729 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:44,679 are receiving them in their feet and they have these fat pads that are full 730 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,400 of pascenium corpuscles, and they're these these cells. I know, that's a 731 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:54,039 mouthful, These cells that are really good at sensing vibrations. It's similar to 732 00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:59,039 like when you feel a fly land on your arm, you get that sense, 733 00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:01,239 oh there's something on but like, imagine how tiny that fly is. 734 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:07,159 So kind of compare that to those same cells in their feet that they can 735 00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:10,239 detect those signals from. So again, fascinating topic. They're probably one of 736 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:15,760 the world's best communicators and most diverse communicators. That's so cool. So how 737 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,320 far are they actually able to communicate? Then? Like, what do you 738 00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:22,920 do? You know about a mile range or kilometer range. So with infrasound, 739 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:28,800 probably around ten kilometers or six miles or so, possibly more, and 740 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,119 with seismic signals it can be you know, a couple of miles or kilometers. 741 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,239 It's a great way to communicate with, you know, neighboring herds or 742 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,440 maybe maybe if part of your herd has gotten separated. Plus, you know, 743 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:45,039 when elephants are incomfortable, they can sometimes fan out in their herds. 744 00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:50,199 They might be half a kilometer away just because you know, someone found something 745 00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,840 really tasty over here, and somebody found so it's another good way too, 746 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,440 to like let everybody know, hey, we're moving, we're going cool, 747 00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:01,599 very cool communication thing with It's just amazing. I've just barely scratched the surface. 748 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:09,039 So have you seen that maybe these meths are communicating or deteriorating as humans 749 00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:13,599 are moving closer and now they're getting car vibrations to the ground. You're just 750 00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:16,480 sounds from radios or anything like that, just in cities or neighborhoods. Yeah, 751 00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:20,199 radios are not on the same frequency, so that doesn't bother them. 752 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,639 I've watched a couple of times. It's very interesting. An elephant can tell 753 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,320 when a car is coming from far away before you can. So I've actually 754 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,360 watched them like perk up and look around, and it's very very cool. 755 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,519 It appears that when elephants are, you know, listening with their feet, 756 00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:40,760 they'll stop because elephants kind of have this thing where they're like constantly like moving, 757 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:45,280 like they sway or they're not very still creatures. But then when you 758 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,880 see all of them just all of a sudden stop in freeze, you're like, 759 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,800 Oh, they're listening to something. That's kind of a cool, cool 760 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,559 way to know that, Oh, something's coming. Oh wow, just real 761 00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:59,599 quick. Do you think they're able to kind of distinguish when it is a 762 00:52:59,639 --> 00:53:01,639 car and it's a human moving through Where do you just kind of think, 763 00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:05,039 Okay, I don't know what that is and ignore it. I don't know 764 00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:07,599 the answer to that question, but I would think that if they felt a 765 00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:12,960 certain type of vibration and then they saw the result and that repeated it, 766 00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:15,119 Phil, I would think that they would be able to learn that because they 767 00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:21,159 can definitely learn different people, especially by smell. There's one study where they 768 00:53:21,159 --> 00:53:24,559 could they can distinguish between the smell of a cloth that have been on a 769 00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:30,039 group of people that are traditionally aggressive towards elephants, and then one that wasn't. 770 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:35,760 Wow, that's so cool. First and foremost, congratulations on you finishing 771 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,719 your dissertation. Thank you. What do you have any plans after this? 772 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,760 Where can people find you? I'm on social media. I've got my own 773 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,000 website. Let Lynnvonhagen dot com. You can keep up with me there. 774 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:51,199 See links to my papers as they come out and things like that. I'm 775 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,880 on Twitter, Lynn von Hagen is a very unusual name, so if you 776 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,880 just remember the name, you can pretty much find me. I'm on Twitter 777 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,039 and Instagram as well, and I like to post lots of pictures from my 778 00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:05,800 adventures. And I am currently job searching, so if you need an awesome 779 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,920 scientist, you can get in touch with me. But I would love to 780 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,840 keep working with elephants, but you know, those kind of jobs are few 781 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,880 and far between, so I'm definitely looking to work for conservation, probably an 782 00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:23,960 NGO or a government agency that works on things that are preserving biodiversity, addressing 783 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,880 climate change issues and like that. So I'm on the market. Oh yeah, 784 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,159 I mean all of those jobs are increasingly more necessary. Yes, unfortunately 785 00:54:32,199 --> 00:54:38,199 they are. Yeah, Hi, I am right there. So that was 786 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,920 our interview with Lynn. It was amazing. I mean it went for a 787 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,800 really long time and we can't do to you too much here, but the 788 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,800 stuff I want to talk about, so we're doing a full OUTROI yeah, 789 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:52,920 what do you want? So I am really happy that we talked about the 790 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,239 poses of people too stuff. Yeah, that is something that I didn't think 791 00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,000 about before we went into this, and it just kind of popped up. 792 00:54:59,039 --> 00:55:04,239 Matching Yeah, these are just struggling people, which fucking sucks. Get they're 793 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,800 doing something that we all hate so much. It's fucking the world against them. 794 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,559 But I'm happy as she understood that and pointed that out, you know, 795 00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:13,559 something that works in them all the time and loves them as what she 796 00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:15,480 does. She's like, well, yeah, this is what they're doing to 797 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,440 survive. Of course. Yeah, And I feel like that's I mean, 798 00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:22,519 the heart of what she's studying is like human elephant conflict and that's a really 799 00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:27,039 big one and it's a hard conversation to have. And I understand the first 800 00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:29,559 I mean when I was a little kid, I hated poachers and I was 801 00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:31,840 like, I want them to die back. Yeah, but like it's not 802 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:36,639 that simple. I mean, organized crime to kill elephants is, it's pretty 803 00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:37,800 fucking terrible. But the worst people are at the top. They're not the 804 00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,480 ones killing the elephants, you know. Yeah. Can we get back to 805 00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:44,679 the whole thing about the girl He said you saw online that went over there 806 00:55:44,679 --> 00:55:46,719 to kill poachers. Yeah, so once again, that was just a thing 807 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,679 that was going around Twitter. I'm I think it has come up before, 808 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,000 and I don't know how recently it was but yeah, she was like this 809 00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:58,960 white lady who claimed that she was going over there to like literally just kill 810 00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:02,800 poachers. And you're a white woman going to Africa to murder black people. 811 00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:08,239 There's there's a lot of issues with that. Yeah, just murder, but 812 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,599 like you're going in there, you don't know what the fuck you were going 813 00:56:12,679 --> 00:56:16,840 to hunt people is what you're doing, and that makes you so much worse 814 00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:21,239 than the people that you are trying to kill. Yeah, yeah, yep, 815 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,840 yeah, yeah. So I'm not even gonna I'm not even gonna look 816 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,800 into that story because it's just she's not fucking worth looking into. But uh, 817 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,599 I hope it's just internet bullshit. Yeah I hope so too. But 818 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,480 I hope she goes to jail forever and ever. Yeah, me too. 819 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,559 So one thing I want to touch on, well, I mean there's a 820 00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:45,280 few things, but I think one quote that Lynn said that I was like, 821 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,519 I want to tattoo this on my forehead. I saw you scribble it 822 00:56:46,519 --> 00:56:50,719 down really fast, like aggressively, do you your whole body went into the 823 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,119 notepad. Yeah, she said wildlife issues are poverty issues and I was like, 824 00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:00,760 yes, yes, fist in the air, yes, Like that is 825 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,159 it? And I was thinking, like, you know, trying to think 826 00:57:02,199 --> 00:57:07,360 of instances where I've had people call me and say that they're having issues with 827 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:08,800 animals, and like, of course there's rich people who are like, oh, 828 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,119 losing a pulse, mom, I don't know why? What the fuck? 829 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:28,440 Never, No, so dumb, we're keeping that. Of course we 830 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,599 are regrets. You have to listen to an extra fifty seconds of the stupid 831 00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:37,719 podcast because actually, sorry, guys, no, but that's it's such a 832 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,840 real thing. And yeah, I do think it's important to point that that's 833 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,320 not everywhere though, Like the interactions we're seeing around in America, I don't 834 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:51,280 think that they're really poverty driven in the same extent out there makes total sense. 835 00:57:51,639 --> 00:57:52,639 In Asia, I think it makes a ton of sense. Like that 836 00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:57,679 is, yeah, right right on it. I think it depends. I 837 00:57:57,679 --> 00:58:00,360 mean, here in New England, I feel like it's not super poverty driven. 838 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:01,960 I want to say it is all. I mean, how many of 839 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:07,159 your calls when you were at the the other place, the government place, 840 00:58:07,639 --> 00:58:09,480 I don't know, Yeah, anyway, how many of those were people having 841 00:58:09,519 --> 00:58:13,840 bears in their backyard of their house? I mean so many if they had 842 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:15,719 a house they're on poverty and maybe one compare it to people you know, 843 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:20,559 Okay, well yes, but if you're talking about poverty in America, think 844 00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:22,679 about that for a second. I mean, there was a lot of people 845 00:58:22,679 --> 00:58:29,000 who were in like multiple home like multiple family homes and didn't have the money 846 00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:32,639 to like have a dumpster pickup service, so there's left their trash in the 847 00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:37,760 porch until they could go to like the community dump and that that's a good 848 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:43,480 comparison of people like poverty driven wildlife issues. And if you are trying to, 849 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,800 like if you're a farmer here in New Hampshire and you're trying to grow 850 00:58:47,079 --> 00:58:52,599 corn like barsil eat corn, yep, you might not have the money to 851 00:58:52,679 --> 00:58:55,039 buy a fence to protect your stuff. But if I'm like a rich person 852 00:58:55,079 --> 00:58:59,119 who's like I could keep some bees or chickens, like, of course I'm 853 00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:00,480 gonna have them money to buy electric fence to save them, you know what 854 00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:04,800 I mean. Yeah, So like just little things like that too. Yeah. 855 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,360 I love that wildlife issues are poverty issues. That's a bumper sticker. 856 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:13,320 And the fact that elephant ivory is more than gold, that's insane. Yeah, 857 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,480 insane. I didn't know that China allowed it at all, so, 858 00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:17,760 I guess I'm happy to hear that, but the fact that it was only 859 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,559 twenty seventeen is a little all right, Like you should have known better by 860 00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:24,559 then, China, Like if you can do so well by pandas you can 861 00:59:24,599 --> 00:59:29,800 do better by elephants, that the ivory tree like topped out in twenty eleven, 862 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:34,320 I would have thought it shocking decades ago. Same I would I thought 863 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,639 the numbers are too low by then. I would have thought that we've had 864 00:59:36,679 --> 00:59:40,039 would have had under controlled by then. Nope, it's crazy. Yeah, 865 00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,480 that was really that was shocking too. The last thing I want to touch 866 00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:50,239 on elephant feet big feet, they have big feet, yes, toenails. 867 00:59:50,519 --> 00:59:53,239 Toenails came up. Yeah, that was crazy to me that. I mean, 868 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,440 obviously they're different species. When he starts talking like that, I'm like, 869 00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,039 oh, yeah, this makes sense. Yeah, like I didn't know 870 00:59:59,079 --> 01:00:01,800 that, like the elephants in Africa have different numbers of toes insane, but 871 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:07,880 like specifically in zoos, I think it's one to two hours a day if 872 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:13,119 you're an elephant keeper are dedicated to just keeping care of their feet really yeah, 873 01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:15,920 like massaging them, scraping them of dirt, like washing them down because 874 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,880 their feet are so important and they're standing on them all day obviously, like 875 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,960 you really have to make sure their feet are okay because if not, like 876 01:00:22,039 --> 01:00:28,320 it cause a lot of other health issues. And I've read somewhere that if 877 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,199 you are a large animal zoo keeper you get paid more because you're physically picking 878 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:37,159 up more poop during the day. Seriously, I swear did I read that 879 01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:42,039 in the book Fuzz by Mary I feel like that's where I read it, 880 01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:45,519 But it was literally like a poop like a poop braise, Like you get 881 01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:50,679 more money there. I know. It's it's a really good book. You 882 01:00:50,719 --> 01:00:55,679 can find it on our website marriage hit us up. Yeah, it's on 883 01:00:55,719 --> 01:01:00,280 our website. We have a book club on our website, get a Live 884 01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:04,199 podcast dot com, and you can check out the different books that we use 885 01:01:04,239 --> 01:01:07,480 for reference materials or that were written by like guests that came on our podcast, 886 01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:10,119 like for example, if you join us on Patreon, we have a 887 01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:15,280 bonus episode with Joe Atkinson, who is a Golden Eagle falconer and wrote not 888 01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:19,920 like a fantasy. He wrote like a fiction novel about a falconer trying to 889 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:24,079 survive with just his falcon sounded pretty sick. Yeah, anyways, is there 890 01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:28,079 anything else you want to say about elphants before I finish this up? Just 891 01:01:28,119 --> 01:01:30,599 that they're very cool and pretty scary if you pissed him off, so let's 892 01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:34,679 try to avoid that. Yeah. Just the fact that she was like, 893 01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,519 if they're coming for you, that's it. Well, not much you can 894 01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:44,760 do. Yeah, Like I love that honesty. So you didn't acknowledged like 895 01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,719 a handhand fight. She was like that, No, of course not. 896 01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,679 So here's how you avoid it. The fact that she was saying, like, 897 01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:52,519 you can climb a tree, but they could knock down a tree. 898 01:01:52,559 --> 01:01:55,920 I was like, oh my god, the ultimate that's your best bet to 899 01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:00,480 climb a tree. But like it's like running from a grit well, I 900 01:02:00,519 --> 01:02:05,239 mean grizzlies or like, I don't know, even tigers. Like if you 901 01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:08,760 go up a tree, they can go up the tree. They can swim. 902 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,920 Yeah, on every they can do all of it better than you. 903 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,440 Facts, facts, fax facts. Unless you're Michael Phelps, then maybe you 904 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,800 can out swim a bear. But they did that. Uh Michael Phelps swims 905 01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,880 against like a fucking dolphin or something once, didn't they Oh, I don't 906 01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:29,599 know, make pay attention to him. Anyways, thank you so much for 907 01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:32,639 coming to this episode of Get It Alive. You can check out the episode 908 01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:37,320 description below for more links. We're gonna link to all of Lynn's socials, 909 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:42,000 her website, my cousin's rehab, wildlife rehab. That is, everyone is 910 01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:45,719 like drug rehab and they give up beavers. Yeah, that'd be so good 911 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:51,639 though, it'd be so cute. Oh my god, I know how we're 912 01:02:51,639 --> 01:02:55,039 gonna make a difference in this world, Ashley. We're gonna give wild animals, 913 01:02:55,599 --> 01:02:59,400 not prisoners. When I say prisoners, we're gonna give wild animals to 914 01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:02,559 covering addicts. Yeah, we're not gonna do it. Yeah, it's just 915 01:03:02,639 --> 01:03:07,719 you might not I Anyways, you can rate if you like this episode. 916 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,840 You can rate us on Apple Podcasts, Podchasers, Spotify, basically wherever you're 917 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,719 listening, except I think Google Podcasts. I don't know if they have a 918 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,840 rating thing. Let's have it to do it. Yeah, thanks. Join 919 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,599 us on Patreon. Like I've said, you get different benefits for the different 920 01:03:22,599 --> 01:03:25,360 tiers. So we have three different tiers and at the top two you get 921 01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,440 our bonus episodes, and we have quite a few. We're trying to do 922 01:03:28,519 --> 01:03:31,639 like one a month. So it's just it's more Lucy Goosey, much more 923 01:03:31,719 --> 01:03:37,599 Lucy goosey, which is saying something righting. Yeah. You can follow us 924 01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:39,679 on Instagram at gett a live pod, follow us on Facebook at gett a 925 01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:44,280 Live podcast. That's where I post most like, you know, recent attacks 926 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,960 in the news. And you can follow me on Twitter at the Angryologist for 927 01:03:47,079 --> 01:03:52,840 more cute baby animal content. Nick uh. Unless I start posting baby animal 928 01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:57,920 content, I will not be on social media fair. Also, our instagram 929 01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,360 is full of like baby bear videos. It's very cute. I'm happy that 930 01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,800 I follow with the account I do have that I don't go on because it's 931 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,800 all I do. I follow both. I followed the Kiln Bear Center and 932 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,840 I follow our podcast obviously, and I watch both stories. Yeah, I'm 933 01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,800 so Yeah. It's the Kilm Bear Center located here in New Hampshire and he 934 01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,199 rehabilitates baby bears and it's the most precious content you can ever imagine, just 935 01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:23,400 best. Yes, yes, do you see the one today with the little 936 01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,079 baby looking out in the scenery and everything? Of course I did. I 937 01:04:26,159 --> 01:04:28,360 posted on our story and I was like, it looks like the beginning of 938 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,000 a movie like Brother Bear but live, actually so cute, it's so good. 939 01:04:31,519 --> 01:04:34,480 Thank you to my good friend and second grade husband Josh wallsh From making 940 01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,679 our intro music, and we'll be back in two wednesdays with a new animal 941 01:04:38,719 --> 01:04:40,519 attack story. Thanks again, Lynn,