1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:09,480 Here the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol, an 2 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:13,640 idea. The population of atheist in this country is going through the rule, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:19,760 rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I tell the truth, 4 00:00:19,839 --> 00:00:23,719 it's because I tell the truth, not because I put my hand on 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,760 a book and made a wish and working together for a more rational world. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,640 Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness, truth, beauty, 7 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:38,840 and wisdom will come to you that way. Assume nothing, question everything, 8 00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:47,439 and start thinking. This is the Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews. 9 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,520 So if you go somewhere and you ask what is the number of the 10 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,480 beast? At least in the United States of America, but I would guess 11 00:01:03,519 --> 00:01:11,519 around most of the world, the answer is six six six Revelation, Chapter 12 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,439 thirteen, verses sixteen through eighteen. It also forced all people, great and 13 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:21,200 small, rich and poor, free enslaves to receive a mark on their right 14 00:01:21,239 --> 00:01:26,920 hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless 15 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,359 they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number 16 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,519 of its name. This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight 17 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,599 calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. 18 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:47,480 That number is six six six. There is a word for the fear 19 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,239 of the number, six six six. I had to write it out phonetically. 20 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:57,120 I'm going to try it here. Hexakosioi, hex econta, hexophobia. 21 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,120 Jesus right, that is a word for people who are scared of the number. 22 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,919 I'm not scared of the number anymore. And since this is episode six 23 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:15,479 six six and I'm no longer scared of Satanists, I thought I would have 24 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,639 some Satanists on the broadcast, and I want to welcome my very special guest. 25 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,599 I've got Chalise, by the way, Chalise blythe you are what's your 26 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,039 title with the Satanic Temple? What do you do? Minister of Satan? 27 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,599 I also meet a relations specialist, and I'm also the programming director for our 28 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:35,240 Satan Cohn annual event. My buddy r and Raw, I know you're a 29 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,439 Satanist. You're not an official representative of TST, but you do now identify 30 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:44,919 as a Satanist. Is that right? I joined the Satanic Temple shortly after 31 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:51,319 my state started criminalizing or attempting to criminalize abortions ahead of the Supreme Activist Court 32 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:57,400 Texas. Yet, not only do I agree with the Seven Tenants the Satanic 33 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:00,599 Temple posts, I'm going I agree with that. There's certainly than the Ten 34 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,000 Commandments. But I wanted to show support for the organization for their activism and 35 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:07,560 defense of the First Amendment, which is what I'm all about. Well, 36 00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:12,840 you've got the look, You've got that gothic sort of people. I was 37 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:16,599 a neo pagan occultist, so I was close enough. People who don't know 38 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,840 that you are the biggest teddy bear in the universe, you know you do. 39 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,159 Cut an imposing figure also a co founder of the Satanic Temple is a 40 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,840 joining us. My friend Lucian Grieves. Hey, brother, I'm good to 41 00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:30,800 have your back, good to be here. Thank you. So have you 42 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,599 ever been at a convenience store or somewhere and maybe somebody rings up a coffee 43 00:03:35,599 --> 00:03:38,759 in a candy bar and the receipt says six to six six, or it 44 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,759 says that on the register, And have you ever seen somebody wig out and 45 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:46,039 like go grab a pack of gum because the number itself bothers them. I've 46 00:03:46,039 --> 00:03:51,680 seen it. I'm just curious if any of you encountered this phenomena. Well, 47 00:03:51,719 --> 00:03:55,080 I am originally from Utah, so I've seen it playing times yip Utah. 48 00:03:55,199 --> 00:04:00,199 Oh, Satanism must really go over there, of course. I I 49 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,240 think there's an underground in Utah, in Mormon country of people that are doing 50 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:09,000 all kinds of quote unquote evil deeds when the church isn't watching. It's a 51 00:04:09,039 --> 00:04:13,199 repression culture, right, Repression cultures never work, would you agree? Yeah? 52 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,399 Yeah, the subversive culture is really strong in Utah. Just kind of 53 00:04:15,399 --> 00:04:18,480 depends on the little pockets. But for the most part, when you are 54 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:24,120 living in a state that is heavily one sided when it comes to a religious 55 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,319 identity, yeah, you're you're going to breed a lot of counterculture. So 56 00:04:28,439 --> 00:04:30,199 yeah, there's there's a lot of it out there, Lucian. You ever 57 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:33,959 seen anybody just flip out six six six then like it and they literally have 58 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:40,079 a moment. Well, it's been so long since I actually did a checkout 59 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,279 I think where a cash I actually had to deal with the cashier and not 60 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,480 just a self checkout or Instacart. You'd be amazed how little I when I 61 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,720 have gone out into the public since since COVID even started. It's not even 62 00:04:50,759 --> 00:04:55,879 about fear of disease anymore. It's just about not wanting to be around people. 63 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,600 But you really bring up an interesting point about the repression culture and how 64 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,759 to a certain degree, or maybe to the majority a degree, the nature 65 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:11,480 of the repression kind of dictates the nature of the countercultures, and they become 66 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:17,480 self fulfilling prophecies when they create Satanic panics in the like they create then villains 67 00:05:17,519 --> 00:05:23,199 who people who are willing to contextualize themselves as the beasts that they feel they've 68 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:27,160 been categorized as by the broader society around them. And we saw that during 69 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:30,240 the eighties and nineties. And I think one thing that pisses people off about 70 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:36,120 the Satanic Temple more than anything else is that we self identify on our own 71 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:42,399 terms and don't play the game of trying to appear as the monsters they want 72 00:05:42,519 --> 00:05:46,800 us to be. But it's still insisting that that's what we are. I 73 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:50,759 did a story recently about the prohibition on alcohol one hundred plus years ago. 74 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,759 All Right, we're going to make it illegal, We're going to keep people 75 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,279 from doing it in the name of morality, And instead the entire culture went 76 00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:03,839 underground and people found a way and not only was it ineffective, but it 77 00:06:03,879 --> 00:06:09,279 was actually harmful because now you weren't getting revenue dollars or tax dollars, and 78 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,519 people were starting to make their own hoops and sometimes it contained toxins which either 79 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,240 harmed or killed them, and there are all kinds of side effects. And 80 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,360 at the end of the day ten years they just pulled a plug on prohibition 81 00:06:20,399 --> 00:06:24,079 and said, whoops, that didn't work. And that seems to be the 82 00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:29,000 case with so much we see the Bible Belt States. They're usually the highest 83 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,800 in all kinds of things, whether it's team pregnancy or porn use. I 84 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,199 think you know Utah, right, I think Utah is either one or two 85 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,439 in porn use these days, I don't know it is. Yeah, well, 86 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,639 and you know kind of. I think the overall theme is if Satan 87 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,800 you make us, then Satan we shall be. And so whether that's people 88 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,480 who identify Satanists or they identify with any other counterculture, and whether it's a 89 00:06:50,519 --> 00:06:54,279 social counterculture or anything like that, I mean, yeah, it is a 90 00:06:54,319 --> 00:06:59,000 self fulfilling prophecy, and people will eventually just embrace the identities of which is 91 00:06:59,079 --> 00:07:00,839 bestowed upon them or something that they're just like well, all right, if 92 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:02,839 that's what you want me to be in the fuck it, I'm gonna go. 93 00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:06,959 You know, I'm going to turn it up to eleven. Utah was 94 00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:12,439 number one in porn and then should be left yep, yep, and now 95 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,279 it's down to what six, yeah, or fifty? So I didn't mean 96 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:17,439 to walk out of you there. There's a little bit of a delay. 97 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,480 Are and Raw, go ahead, brother. My thought is on the on 98 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,319 porn use in Utah. If you live in Utah and you don't have a 99 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,959 four wheel drive vehicle and the money to go play with one, then what 100 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,279 else is there to do? That's a whole other show. I'm sorry. 101 00:07:34,319 --> 00:07:39,360 I always wondered if those endowment ceremonies really did get kind of freaky. Everybody's 102 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,120 already dressed in the sheet being in Texas Governor Abbott Are and Raw, Holy 103 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,600 shit. I thought I had it bad with Kevin Stitt in Oklahoma, who 104 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:53,680 just dedicated the entire goddamn state of Oklahoma to Jesus. He had a prayer 105 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:59,680 right after the twenty twenty two election. He wins overwhelmingly, and the first 106 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,000 thing he does is he has a prayer, public prayer, and he dedicates 107 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,600 the whole state to Jesus. Abbott does the same stuff down there, right, 108 00:08:05,839 --> 00:08:11,639 Abbot is disastrous. I feel so bad. I was with Wendy Davis. 109 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,959 I was at her convention where she was running against Abbot, and we 110 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,000 were there when she had to make the concession that he had won. We 111 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:26,480 canvassed for her because we thought that Wendy Davis was a heroic figure who what 112 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:31,360 she's famous for is that she had herself fitted with a catheter so that she 113 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:35,960 wouldn't have to take restroom breaks while she used a filibuster to beat back the 114 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,320 anti abortion legislation that Texas was trying to pass back in twenty eleven. I 115 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,240 think it was and she was a hero. I mean, what she did 116 00:08:46,279 --> 00:08:52,720 in order to save our rights was literally heroic. And I was so moved, 117 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:56,200 and it was an internet phenomenon what was going on with her. And 118 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,759 so when she ran for governor, we were supportive. We did interviews with 119 00:08:58,799 --> 00:09:03,240 her a couple of times, and it was it was so sad to see 120 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:09,879 Abbot beat her for the governor's race. And it's pathetic in this state that 121 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:15,600 no one seems to learn the lessons they get. Abbott and there after Perry 122 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,600 after Bush. It's like this state can't learn, they can't figure out, 123 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,320 Hey, this was a mistake. This was another mistake. We'll follow that 124 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:28,600 with another mistake. We live in a culture where people people elect Marjorie Taylor 125 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,559 Green, like I thought the first time, I'm like, all right, 126 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,399 well, she was unopposed, and this is a sort of a freaky you 127 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,039 know, this is just anomaly. And the fact that she was now re 128 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,519 elected and then appointed to what Homeland Security that committee, and I just I 129 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,279 feel like we're circling the drain. I'll bounce it back to you, Lucian. 130 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,240 You want to talk about this, because talking Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren 131 00:09:50,279 --> 00:09:54,840 Bobert's, etc. They're all satanic panickers, right right, Yeah, And 132 00:09:56,159 --> 00:10:03,279 that's a really worrisome development when people really are taking these irrational ideas seriously and 133 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,399 they get out into the mainstream culture, and people become more activated because you 134 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:13,159 hear them claiming things about us that, if they were true, would justify 135 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,200 severe action against us. The ideas and that kind of thing, you mean, 136 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,440 right right, And you know, we get those kinds of messages where 137 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:26,399 people say they're going to act upon those vigilante impulses and everything else. And 138 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:31,840 I do think the rhetoric more and more is ramping up to inevitable violence. 139 00:10:33,039 --> 00:10:37,559 And I'm just really discouraged that it seems like on the extreme ends of the 140 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,919 political spectrum, people just can't get enough of their dictators. They want them, 141 00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:46,600 you know. And I was horrified when I was recently watching a lecture 142 00:10:46,759 --> 00:10:52,519 on YouTube scholar was talking about Mao, And you know, to me, 143 00:10:54,639 --> 00:11:00,840 Mao is neither left wing nor right wing, either conservative nor liberal a dictator. 144 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,600 As a dictator, it's all pretext for centralizing power for their own agenda 145 00:11:05,759 --> 00:11:09,240 whatever, whatever it is, according to their whim, and that's how they 146 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,919 behave. But to see during the Q and A, somebody raised their hand 147 00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:20,879 and dress the scholar down for not talking about the offenses committed by the US 148 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,440 and their foreign policy and things like that, and suggesting that because the US 149 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:33,799 has made numerous unforgivable missteps, that we would be just as well under Mao, 150 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:37,799 who was sending all his food to other countries to try to enlist them 151 00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:39,879 into a World War three in which he would come out the top leader, 152 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,320 to the point where citizens were starving by the million to pretend that that's no 153 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:52,200 worse than where we are now is a very disturbing mindset to me. And 154 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,240 I feel like with the extreme polarization we're dealing with now, it's that all 155 00:11:56,279 --> 00:12:03,720 are nothing mentality from the polarized segments. And I just begin to feel that 156 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:07,759 in the same way that people do not seem to learn in Texas, in 157 00:12:07,799 --> 00:12:13,720 the same way we keep progressively electing in these less and less competent, less 158 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,039 and less rational, less and less coherent politicians, that it seems like humanity 159 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,080 just needs to run these cycles again and again and we have to go through 160 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:28,759 a period of autocracy before people wake up and realize that that's not the optimal 161 00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:31,440 way to live. And I really hope that's not the way of it. 162 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:37,120 But I've been feeling pessimistic of late, and I honestly think Satanism, our 163 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,440 identification as Satanists, our fight for these principles where we try to get people 164 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,840 to exercise blind neutrality. You don't have to like what we look like, 165 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,360 you don't even have to like what we say, but you set even legal 166 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:54,840 parameters that everybody follows, including us, and you set that aside. I 167 00:12:54,879 --> 00:13:00,240 think that's become so lost, and it's becoming lost more and more on the 168 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,799 left as it's been lost for so long on the right. And that's what's 169 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:09,000 really just distressing to me, is both sides driving each other's extremism to the 170 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:15,080 point where I feel like we have an inevitable showdown with dictatorship. Should least 171 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,000 you want to weigh in on any of what we've been talking about, well, 172 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:22,440 I mean, I don't disagree with anything that's been said. And what 173 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,960 we have constantly run up against is this idea that you know, the reason 174 00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:30,799 there is this such support for people in positions of authority that want to wield 175 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,759 that as a weapon against the minority is that people don't realize is that that 176 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:39,039 has a larger effect, that's a larger impact. Eventually it will hit home 177 00:13:39,039 --> 00:13:41,919 with them. You know. It's like you see these you see these political 178 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,480 commentators like the Ben Shakiros and things who considering we are living in an era 179 00:13:48,519 --> 00:13:52,039 of not only satanic panic, but you know now we're seeing a rise and 180 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,519 anti semitism not only with politicians but now pop stars and and things like that. 181 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,879 So people using their platforms to push these rhetorics. Is that people like 182 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,799 the Ben Shapiros who do identify as being a part of the people who are 183 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,639 currently at the center of the rhetoric. But you know, as long as 184 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,159 they stay on the side of those who are in the power of oppression, 185 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,440 they think that they're going to be, you know, seen as the good 186 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,360 ones. Therefore they're not going to be subject to the consequences of the actions. 187 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,159 But what they don't realize is that they're going to be sharing the same 188 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,679 jail cell with the rest of us. It'll just hit them last. So 189 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,639 it's that complete disconnection of thinking that so long as I stand next to the 190 00:14:31,679 --> 00:14:37,120 oppressor, I will be safe from my eventual imprisonment because I still am a 191 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,879 part of that demographic that is currently you know, being oppress. So yeah, 192 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:43,679 no, I mean we've we've seen it all the time. This is 193 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,919 just basic human history and it's just unfolding on a skill And yeah, it's 194 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:50,960 not just going to be Satanists. Almost like they're saying, hey, I'd 195 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,679 rather be a pet than cattle, right, yeah, basically, yeah, 196 00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:56,960 but you know they'll put the cat down to Yeah, I would imagine how 197 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,759 my family reacted what I and when I announced that I've now joined the Satanic 198 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:07,480 temple, because I've already been hearing from my family people that tell me that, 199 00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:11,279 you know, the right wing conservative, Christian nationalist authoritarians who vote constantly 200 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,519 vote against their own interests, completely oblivious to the fact that that is what 201 00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:18,720 they're doing, right, and they want to say that it's a it's a 202 00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:24,759 dichotomous us versus them kind of mentality where everything is binary, and where every 203 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,559 leftist must everybody who's not an extreme right wing authoritarian must be a radical leftist, 204 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:37,919 and everyone who ever voted Democrat is a pedophile, devil worshiper. And 205 00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:41,519 I asked, I asked my own mother. I said, do you really 206 00:15:41,559 --> 00:15:46,600 believe that Tom Hanks drinks raped baby's blood while he worships the devil? And 207 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:52,159 her answer was, you can't prove he doesn't. What do you do with 208 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:58,639 that? We're circling the drain Like I'm an optimistic guy, but the last 209 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,840 few years of reveal my own naivete. Maybe I've been deluded and kidding myself. 210 00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:08,039 I want to bounce out of politics. That's kind of a deeper dive 211 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:15,240 that we may return to interest in the kind of cartoonish satan that many of 212 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:19,399 these people are so afraid of, you know, the red skin and the 213 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,759 horns, and you know it looks like a very naughty hell boy. Has 214 00:16:23,799 --> 00:16:29,720 anyone gotten into the origins of our perception of Satan where that comes from? 215 00:16:29,799 --> 00:16:33,480 Can anyone speak to that? I don't want to upstage Lucian, you know, 216 00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:34,919 but I mean, yeah, I did. I did a speech on 217 00:16:36,039 --> 00:16:40,360 this in your state in Oklahoma City. I did a speech called to give 218 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,840 the Devil of Due where I talked about the origins of Satan and on gram 219 00:16:42,919 --> 00:16:49,799 On you and hash it aremand the opposer from Zoroastrianism. And he isn't a 220 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,200 Satan, just the adversary. I don't know. I mean, he's the 221 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,440 adversary, he's the accuser, he's the opposer. And what I what I 222 00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:02,120 particularly like about this is and you find this in the Bible, you know, 223 00:17:02,159 --> 00:17:07,880 when Satan argues with Jesus, right, and so Satan is trying to 224 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:14,079 make is trying to dissuade Jesus from making these assertions that are that are not 225 00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:18,000 evidently true. Right. So Satan is just trying to get Jesus to be 226 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,400 honest, is the way I interpret this. But of course the way that 227 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,079 they write it out in the Bible. Is not a rational argument, not 228 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,880 not the sort of argument that a rational person would make. Satan is trying 229 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,480 to negotiate with Jesus. You know, I'll give you all the kingdoms if 230 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,240 you'll renounce God. Well, we know that that's not a rational argument to 231 00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:38,079 make. But Satan takes Jesus to the top of a high mountain where you 232 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,119 can see all of the kingdoms of the world because they thought it was flat 233 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:48,880 right. Satan as a character is the person who embodies reason against faith. 234 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,960 So faith is asserting things that are not evidently true, and you're gonna believe 235 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,720 it anyway, right, So that's basically lying. So, and the Lord 236 00:17:57,799 --> 00:18:03,880 of lies is the one who actually cares about the truth and says that you 237 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,119 should not say things that you cannot show the truth of it. You shouldn't 238 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,000 say things are true if he can't show the truth of it. So Satan 239 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,279 is the more honest character. Yet he's considered the lord of lies. And 240 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,119 God has a liar even in the Bible. And I'm going to make a 241 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,279 video about that zone. And yet God is supposed to be the ultimate truth, 242 00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:22,319 and Jesus is the truth. Why why is he the truth with the 243 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,079 capital T, because it's all a lie and every lie is cast that way. 244 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,759 Lucian Graves. You want to jump in on our perception of Satan. 245 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,920 Yeah, there are some great histories that talk about the imagery of Satan and 246 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,000 how that evolved, and how some of it came from racist perspectives of other 247 00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:48,960 people, the colors of the skin, images from the prototypical Jewish person incorporated 248 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,359 into the image of Satan, similar to Nosperado and things like that. But 249 00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:59,960 sometimes I feel like delving into the finer details of the history of the literary 250 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:06,400 evolution of Satan obscures the larger point, Like when some of our opposition look 251 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,240 and they say, well, Satan, who are they really worshiping? And 252 00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:15,079 then they look into obscure texts and tell us this is the truth about Satan. 253 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:21,480 I don't see throughout this literary history that there is a single truth to 254 00:19:21,519 --> 00:19:26,079 who Satan is. To a certain degree, it becomes an archetype, the 255 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,920 opposition of the unified One, the God that is supposed to command us all 256 00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:37,599 be omniscient and command our lives and morality and other such things. And now 257 00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:44,400 Satan is kind of this intuitive archetype of independent thinking and liberation for those who 258 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:52,000 identify as Satanists, rather than a kind of adherence to a specific literary character 259 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:59,319 in specific quotes necessarily from a revolt of the angels or a paradise lost or 260 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:06,480 anything out. I think without having that historical context, without reading the Bible 261 00:20:06,599 --> 00:20:11,359 from Isaiah on and seeing how God kind of divides from being the author of 262 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,640 darkness and light, the author of good and evil, into a more Zoroastrian 263 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:21,599 conception of being all good in opposition to the ultimate evil on the other side, 264 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,440 I think the contexts that we're in now, the rise of theocracy in 265 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,319 the United States and our efforts to import it throughout the world, give people 266 00:20:32,319 --> 00:20:37,519 a real intuitive sense of the value of Satanism, and that's why our numbers 267 00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:44,319 have grown so significantly throughout time. Even being one of the most denigrated religious 268 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,400 titles of all time. Should LEAs I'm going to come to you in just 269 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,000 second, but let me follow up at lution. Do you think, though, 270 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:56,799 that there's utility if we reverse engineer our notions of satan which exposes that 271 00:20:56,279 --> 00:21:00,960 this idea is man made or human made, and there is utility in that 272 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,920 right if you back. Yeah, I think there's particular utility in looking at 273 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:11,279 that imagery and seeing how it was often called together from unjust denigrations of other 274 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:17,359 people's just to understand that and get past that, and really you can then 275 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,440 realize that the harm that kind of thinking does, that kind of othering, 276 00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:26,799 that kind of making a prize of people, in putting a kind of composite 277 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:32,519 image of Satan upon it, It's never served us towards any positive end. 278 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:40,000 And I think at its best, secular interpretations that argue against Satanism will say 279 00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:45,079 that it's needlessly provocative, but we don't see it that way. I honestly 280 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,119 think that if people could see it for what it is, could see the 281 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:53,680 damage that that kind of mothering does, they would see that there's actually something 282 00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:56,960 noble in what we're doing and trying to redeem the name of Satan, as 283 00:21:57,039 --> 00:22:04,000 ridiculous as that may sound to them. Chlis blithe bighead horns, white fanged 284 00:22:04,039 --> 00:22:08,240 teeth, pointy tale Satan. I don't know what's your take on all this. 285 00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:15,400 The icon of Satan that most people think about, it's evolved over time. 286 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,000 I mean, even even the character of Satan has evolved from its origins 287 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:23,079 of what Satan was, even in Abrahamic religions. So you know, it 288 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,519 goes from the archangel that was actually working in tandem or at the behest of 289 00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:33,480 God as the accuser, the one who was actually delving out the accusations to 290 00:22:33,559 --> 00:22:37,359 those and with that comes with justice, justice, quote unquote. And then 291 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:44,319 over the years, Satan has then become a caricature of what people deemed evil, 292 00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:47,839 depending on when you're talking about. So what was deemed evil, what 293 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,400 was deemed other over the course of human history looks different, and a lot 294 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,920 of them when people think of, you know, pop culture Satan. Yeah, 295 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,559 like you said, with the red skin, the horns, the very 296 00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:04,480 animalistic traits that are usually associated with Satan comes from what people have placed upon 297 00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:08,759 as being negative attributes of those who have been othered over the years, and 298 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:14,720 even what Satan represents to self identified Satanists tends to differ over time. So 299 00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:18,680 even in Satanism, which as a religious identity didn't even exist until the nineteen 300 00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:25,000 sixties, right, what Satan represents as an icon or how we conceptualize, 301 00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:30,759 whether it's the romantic Satanists, the metonic Satanists, those who seem more beauty 302 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:34,759 and ethereal, where other Satanists associate Satan with more you know, animalistic carnal 303 00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:40,920 traits. Even that differs within Satanism. But yeah, I think pop culture 304 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:47,599 what people tend to associate Satan with. Generally speaking, it's just carryovers from 305 00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:51,039 the negative atobates that people put upon the others. Over the years. I 306 00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:55,279 I've done some writing about a dissonance, a feeling of discomfort. There was 307 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,920 a tritone chord that the heavy metal bands love to use, called the Tritone, 308 00:24:00,599 --> 00:24:03,960 and there's something about it that makes people uncomfortable because the notes aren't harmonic 309 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,160 in a comfortable way. And I feel like maybe that relates to so much 310 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,240 of the rest of the culture of people who are programmed or maybe even evolved 311 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:17,240 to see something serpentine or or you know, something that is foreign or just 312 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,759 gives them the willies, therefore it must be demonic. I don't know, 313 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:26,200 would you agree disagree with any of that? Anybody sounds good to me? 314 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,799 Okay? For whatever reason, seeing something serpentine never bothered. Well, how 315 00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:36,160 many snakes do you have? Twenty six? All right, halt the moment, 316 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,160 But technically it's really thirty because Aaron tweets this. He says, there 317 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,880 is a venomous snake in my house and I can't find it. It's loose. 318 00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:53,240 What the hell aren? And so I follow up and say what you 319 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,640 keep venomous snakes? And it got out and your response was, well, 320 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,880 it's not that nimis sorry, what kind of snake? It was a false 321 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,000 water cobra. But it's a false water cobra. When I remember, I 322 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,599 mean, honestly, I'm all good, like if reptiles ring your bell, 323 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:18,400 knock yourself out. Short break. We continue show six to sixty six with 324 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:30,759 my special panel of the Devil's Minions. Next. Thanks for listening on broadcast 325 00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:34,759 number six six six. I couldn't really think of what else I wanted to 326 00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:37,200 do to mark this show. Everybody's like, what are you going to do 327 00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:41,720 when you hit that milestone? And I thought, well, let's talk to 328 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:48,400 Satanists. Lucian Grieves and Chalise Blithe of the Satanic Temple and a Satanist as 329 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,640 well, are in Raw who is a dear friend and been on this broadcast 330 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:59,400 many times. Anybody else struck by the fact that all the Christians, the 331 00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:03,519 Ronda Santiss and the Greg abbots and the Marjorie Taylor Greens, everybody freaking out 332 00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:08,160 about the devil, your local pastor. They're all wigged out about six six 333 00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:14,640 six, the anti Christ, the beast, and they're always losing their minds. 334 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,559 And yet these things must happen according to the Christian scriptures in order for 335 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:26,640 God's plan to be fulfilled. So they're losing their minds and terrified over something 336 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,759 that is actually pre ordained and must happen before they see heaven. Has anybody 337 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:37,000 else gone down that rabbit hole? People go down that rabbit hole for us, 338 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,519 and you know, fortunately for me. You know, especially amongst Islamists, 339 00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:47,720 there's the legend of the anti Christ who's going to arise, who has 340 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:55,200 a scarred over right eye, just like myself. So occasionally we see YouTube 341 00:26:55,279 --> 00:27:00,279 videos pop up about that or in upsurge in some kind of interest in that, 342 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:06,160 and that's always fun. People put together the pieces for you. Since 343 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,079 you've been on Fox News, Tucker Carlson, et cetera, do you ever 344 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:14,440 get recognized out there? Holy shit, it's the Satanist from Fox News or 345 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,799 wherever that ever happened. Yeah, all the time. I guess I'm just 346 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,000 maybe it is the I thing or whatever. But I think people see me 347 00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:25,839 one time, they're going to recognize me a year more later. So do 348 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,480 you ever fear for your safety? You're a high profile Satanist and a whack 349 00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:36,559 a doodle Christian nationalist, Satanic, panic culture everything. Yes, every day. 350 00:27:36,599 --> 00:27:38,839 I don't even I don't even have friends over my place, wow, 351 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,680 because I worry they'll tell you know, they not that they'll do it intentionally, 352 00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:45,480 but pretty soon everybody will know where I am and I'll have to move 353 00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:51,119 over again or whatever a time. I feel like I'm in the witness relocation 354 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,640 program at this point. Yeah, I have a have a slightly different perspective. 355 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,319 I feel that I'm old. Have they had a good run. I've 356 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,079 made the most of life, even when I was a dirt assport, which 357 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,799 seems to be a perpetual situation for me. But I've done better than then. 358 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,960 Anyone predicted that I would. My own family raised me with all kinds 359 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,519 of negative reinforcement, telling me I'll never amount to anything. You know, 360 00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:21,599 My family, interestingly, were all carpenters and always told me that I might 361 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,720 be the world's greatest ditch digger, but I would have never amount to anything. 362 00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:29,079 They told me this as a child, and whatever happens to me, 363 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,799 they can't take away what I've done beyond their expectations. So I can think 364 00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:40,880 of few better ways to die than as a martyr for what I actually believe 365 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,000 in, and it's not just atheism, is what I don't believe in. 366 00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:48,160 If what I do believe in, I believe in truth, and that means 367 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,000 that I have to contest lies, and if I die for that cause, 368 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,319 then that's a better way to go than a lot of other options. Like 369 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,160 Satan. You you stood against repression, oppression, and tyranny, So that's 370 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:07,880 interesting, more proof that are in worships Satan. But in Texas, if 371 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,079 you go out and stand on the street corner, you're at standing at the 372 00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:15,319 corner of Smith and Wesson in Texas. Let's say you had on the Satanism 373 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:18,519 T shirts. I know we're guessing, what do you think would happen. 374 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:26,319 I've worn Satanist T shirts in a number of different places. I hosted a 375 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:33,759 Satanic gathering at a Hungarian vampire bar, you know, as you do in 376 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:38,240 downtown Dallas. And I don't have the fear of that because, as I 377 00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:44,039 said, if somebody, if somebody were to violently attack me over that, 378 00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:48,680 all they can do is take my life. And at sixty years old, 379 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,079 what are they what are they doing? They're probably sparing me from months in 380 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,400 cancer treatment or something like that. So, I mean, there are certainly 381 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,839 worse ways to go then for what you believe in. Wow, I don't 382 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,240 know, Chalis. Do you ever find yourself wanting to crawl from the front 383 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,960 door to the car in the prone position? I mean, I don't know 384 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,079 where you live now or do you Are you in a Jesus area or not 385 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,079 anything. I mean I'm in a very Catholic area. Yeah, I'm no 386 00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:18,319 longer in Utah, but I am very realistic about so when it comes to 387 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,920 concerns about my safety, I consider myself very realistically aware of people wanting to 388 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,440 make violent decisions about what their beliefs are of who I am despite them being 389 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,559 completely wrong. When I was still living in Utah, I was running the 390 00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:36,839 one of the after school Satan programs and one of the elementary schools, and 391 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,559 I had a family member who took a very serious offense to that, and 392 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,960 they decided to distribute my legal name and my address on the internet. So 393 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:55,279 somebody had gotten that information and had shown up at my house and their stated 394 00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:57,079 intent was to kill me. They had their nine millimeter. I had to 395 00:30:57,079 --> 00:31:00,839 call the cops. It was a whole thing. So that happened. And 396 00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:04,599 you know, I think my experience of being a public Satanist is, you 397 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,240 know, the same experience I have being a woman in this world. You 398 00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:11,920 know, the consequence, the price I'd pay being a woman in this world 399 00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:15,559 is probably the same that I pay the price for for being a public Satanist. 400 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,039 So when it comes to general safety, I mean, I'm very careful 401 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:25,480 about making sure that the effects of the decisions people make about whether or not 402 00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:29,839 they think I deserve to live or die doesn't impact those around me, the 403 00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:33,119 people I care about, my family, you know. And I have absolutely 404 00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:36,400 no intention of leaving this world that is not on my own terms. But 405 00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:38,799 I also understand the world for what it is. I don't accept it, 406 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:42,000 but I understand what it is. So I mean, if you know, 407 00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:45,759 kind of like what Arn said, if I have to go into the ground 408 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:48,960 because somebody decides to take that violent action against me, while at least I 409 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,839 did something right, you know, and I didn't back down, and I 410 00:31:51,839 --> 00:31:55,799 didn't shy away from my beliefs, and you know, being very open about 411 00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:57,000 that. So um, yeah, I don't want to be a martyr. 412 00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:00,920 I don't want to I don't want to die because of that. But you 413 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,599 know it's just I've just accepted it for what it is. You've been generous 414 00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:09,319 with your time here on show number six six six. Any final thoughts. 415 00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:13,240 We want to talk about the number. I want to talk about Satan, 416 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,160 you want to talk about your work, you want to talk about the culture. 417 00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:20,079 I'll just let you take whatever baton you're in the mood to take, 418 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,319 R and ray. I'll just start with you. I know you're never at 419 00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:25,200 a loss for words, and I mean that as a compliment. What are 420 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,920 your final thoughts? Brother? When you read out the line from the Bible 421 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,880 you ought to read the same version that Iron Maiden read out in their album 422 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,519 Number of the Beast, Well, shit, what is that? Now? 423 00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:39,960 I gotta I gotta go find it whatever. I'll let you look it up. 424 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,400 I will emulate that now, I will. Were you ever afraid of 425 00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:47,519 Satan? Like? Did it ever bug you aren? Did you ever come 426 00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:51,880 from that? I was accused, I was accused of being a devil worshiper, 427 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,960 the entire time. Ever, every time I ever questioned anything about the 428 00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:00,359 Bible when I was when I identified as Christian, when I thought of myself 429 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,119 as a Christian, I was still being accused of being a devil worshiper or 430 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,359 you were afraid of the devil, though when you identified as a Christian. 431 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,440 I'm very fortunate in that my family didn't believe a lot in hell. So 432 00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:16,279 I was raised by a mostly Mormon family and hell and damnation was not their 433 00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:22,000 fixation. But that was the first thing that I had to reject when I 434 00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:24,119 was still a Christian. When I was still a child, I had to 435 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:30,240 reject the notion of hell because hell is inconsistent with God. If God was, 436 00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:32,799 and I believed in God at this time. But I thought, okay, 437 00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:37,960 if God and Hell cannot both exist at the same time because one contradicts 438 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,920 the other, well, a benevolent God, perhaps certain, any God worthy 439 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,640 of worship, any God worthy of the announce of respect, would not allow 440 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,160 a hell to exist because a malevolent deity could you know, he could excuse, 441 00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:55,119 he could create an excuse hell like that. That's fair. Yeah, 442 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,279 But when I realized that hell is just the ultimate excuse, it's the threat 443 00:33:59,319 --> 00:34:02,440 of a fate worse than death. It's for the people who if you spend 444 00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:07,240 two minutes thinking about heaven, you're going to see huge problems with it. 445 00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:10,280 My grandmother used to use the argument in heaven will all the streets are made 446 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,280 paved with gold, and we'll all live in mansions. And my first thought, 447 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:20,239 at I don't know, ten years old, is why would we need 448 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:27,840 shelter in heaven? But these are loss that would never have entered my grandmother's 449 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,239 mind. The one I've always heard is it's there's no pain or grief or 450 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,719 sorrow in heaven whatsoever. And I'm like, well, if do you know 451 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,559 that I'll be in hell screaming and roasting and unimaginable agony. And they're like, 452 00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:45,239 yes, well, then in heaven, how could you ever experience perfect 453 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,360 peace and no sorrow and pain knowing that was happening? And often what I 454 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,360 get is, well, God wipes your brain, which means it's not you, 455 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:58,880 it's somebody else. So at least any final thoughts on what we've been 456 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,119 talking about on the well himself? Anything, Well, you know, I've 457 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,719 oh, I've I've often heard that the description of hell is being the absence 458 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,760 of God, and all I can say is that I am I've never been 459 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,360 more happy to be among the flames, you know. I have not felt 460 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,920 more peace of mind and more more comfort in my authentic self than being a 461 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,480 Satanist. And I'm glad I finally found my coming home religion and finally found 462 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,719 myself in it. I just want to say that when we went to Satan 463 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,159 Cohn, which was an amusing thing to announce to my family that I was 464 00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:37,239 going to be a speaker at Satan Cohn. We went to their Satanic ball, 465 00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:42,000 and I remember my wife, who was raised both as a Catholic and 466 00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:45,440 as a Protestant, you know, by different sides of her family, each 467 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,039 telling her that the other side is going to go to Hell. And so 468 00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:52,719 she came from a very strong Christian background. She had the nightmares about hell 469 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,719 and damnation and all that that she spent years trying to recover from. But 470 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,800 I got to watch her race her Goth side as she entered the Satanic ball 471 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,679 and just belong and she said, and I just just had meaning for me 472 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,559 when she walked into the Satanic Ball. I got to see all of the 473 00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:14,679 Goth people and everything, and listening to the kind of the you know, 474 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,960 the metal rave kind of music that was playing at the moment that we walked 475 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,400 in, and she says, I think I found my people, and it 476 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,280 was huguely meaningful for me. She she got so much out of that, 477 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,639 especially cooking from the background that she did. I think there's an element of 478 00:36:29,199 --> 00:36:32,280 I don't want to minimize what you're about, but there's an element of play 479 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,519 to it. Like the things that terrify so many other people, they're sort 480 00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,239 of an esthetic for you know, this whole group over here. It's sort 481 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,719 of the window dressing. It's it's theater, and I know it's much more 482 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,639 than that. Lucian grieves. I don't know. Does that sound insulting to 483 00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:52,119 non theistic Satanism? If I say it that way, I know it's to 484 00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:58,320 you much more right now, I think it's I think the more important message 485 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,679 to put out to people is that they don't They don't have to like satan, 486 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,480 they don't have to like Satanic imagery, they don't have to like us. 487 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,800 I think too often when we're speaking, people try to evaluate whether they 488 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:16,800 find merit in our legal battles, in whether they agree with us whether they 489 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,679 find us reasonable, whether they find us likable, and sometimes they do and 490 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:30,760 that's great, but I think it shouldn't matter if we were the Communist Party, 491 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:37,119 the Catholic League, Satanists, whomever else. You shouldn't be allowing there 492 00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:45,559 to be the subjective latitude of politicians to denigrate an entire group based upon viewpoint 493 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:52,679 from an unprincipled perspective that doesn't apply the law equally to all. And I 494 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,119 think we really need to get back into that mindset where we recognize that even 495 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,199 people we absolutely loathe the same legal rights we do, and they only lose 496 00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:07,119 those rights when they stand outside of those legal boundaries, and that we should 497 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:13,079 protect those rights with everything we have or they're going to be lost for all 498 00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:19,159 of us. And I think that is the most important message the Satanic Temple 499 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:24,519 can impress upon people now that obviously resonated with Urn's Hellhound, which I think 500 00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:29,440 I heard barking, and I still apologize that I didn't jump straight to the 501 00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:31,320 mute button knowing that the dog is going to go on. No, No, 502 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,639 not at all. I mean, I've got some critters here and they 503 00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:38,239 love to make their presence as known. Chalise Blithe r and Raw, Lucian 504 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,800 Graves, thanks for helping me mark the day show number six six six. 505 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,079 I mean I came from a culture that programmed me to be afraid, and 506 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,960 it's just amazing to be able to look at all this and not only not 507 00:38:51,039 --> 00:38:53,039 be afraid, but to say, hey, if it suits you, if 508 00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:58,079 you love it, if it's your esthetic, if knock yourself out. Beyond 509 00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:02,440 that, I've actually come to see Satan is I know, was it Lucian 510 00:39:02,519 --> 00:39:07,320 who likes to say you framed Satan in the context of rebellion against tyranny? 511 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:12,159 Am I misquoting you? There? Is that accurate? Nope, that is 512 00:39:12,199 --> 00:39:15,599 accurate. Yeah, I mean it was Satan who said, oh, this 513 00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:19,480 is a bunch of bullshit. Yeah, you don't get to do this. 514 00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:23,519 Yahweh, and he formed a resistance. I kind of like that, and 515 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,280 it's been fun to embrace that in my own life. So thank you to 516 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,920 all of you for helping me celebrate the day. All my best in your 517 00:39:31,039 --> 00:39:36,559 endeavors, and let's talk again soon. Okay, so much. Follow The 518 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:42,079 Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a complete archive of podcasts and videos. 519 00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:45,880 Products like mugs and t shirts featuring The Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist 520 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:52,079 pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events and conventions. Log 521 00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,440 on to our website, The Thinking Atheist dot com.