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So if you go somewhere and you ask what is the number of the
beast? At least in the United States of America, but I would guess
around most of the world, the answer is six six six Revelation, Chapter
thirteen, verses sixteen through eighteen. It also forced all people, great and
small, rich and poor, free enslaves to receive a mark on their right
hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless
they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number
of its name. This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight
calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.
That number is six six six. There is a word for the fear
of the number, six six six. I had to write it out phonetically.
I'm going to try it here. Hexakosioi, hex econta, hexophobia.
Jesus right, that is a word for people who are scared of the number.
I'm not scared of the number anymore. And since this is episode six
six six and I'm no longer scared of Satanists, I thought I would have
some Satanists on the broadcast, and I want to welcome my very special guest.
I've got Chalise, by the way, Chalise blythe you are what's your
title with the Satanic Temple? What do you do? Minister of Satan?
I also meet a relations specialist, and I'm also the programming director for our
Satan Cohn annual event. My buddy r and Raw, I know you're a
Satanist. You're not an official representative of TST, but you do now identify
as a Satanist. Is that right? I joined the Satanic Temple shortly after
my state started criminalizing or attempting to criminalize abortions ahead of the Supreme Activist Court
Texas. Yet, not only do I agree with the Seven Tenants the Satanic
Temple posts, I'm going I agree with that. There's certainly than the Ten
Commandments. But I wanted to show support for the organization for their activism and
defense of the First Amendment, which is what I'm all about. Well,
you've got the look, You've got that gothic sort of people. I was
a neo pagan occultist, so I was close enough. People who don't know
that you are the biggest teddy bear in the universe, you know you do.
Cut an imposing figure also a co founder of the Satanic Temple is a
joining us. My friend Lucian Grieves. Hey, brother, I'm good to
have your back, good to be here. Thank you. So have you
ever been at a convenience store or somewhere and maybe somebody rings up a coffee
in a candy bar and the receipt says six to six six, or it
says that on the register, And have you ever seen somebody wig out and
like go grab a pack of gum because the number itself bothers them. I've
seen it. I'm just curious if any of you encountered this phenomena. Well,
I am originally from Utah, so I've seen it playing times yip Utah.
Oh, Satanism must really go over there, of course. I I
think there's an underground in Utah, in Mormon country of people that are doing
all kinds of quote unquote evil deeds when the church isn't watching. It's a
repression culture, right, Repression cultures never work, would you agree? Yeah?
Yeah, the subversive culture is really strong in Utah. Just kind of
depends on the little pockets. But for the most part, when you are
living in a state that is heavily one sided when it comes to a religious
identity, yeah, you're you're going to breed a lot of counterculture. So
yeah, there's there's a lot of it out there, Lucian. You ever
seen anybody just flip out six six six then like it and they literally have
a moment. Well, it's been so long since I actually did a checkout
I think where a cash I actually had to deal with the cashier and not
just a self checkout or Instacart. You'd be amazed how little I when I
have gone out into the public since since COVID even started. It's not even
about fear of disease anymore. It's just about not wanting to be around people.
But you really bring up an interesting point about the repression culture and how
to a certain degree, or maybe to the majority a degree, the nature
of the repression kind of dictates the nature of the countercultures, and they become
self fulfilling prophecies when they create Satanic panics in the like they create then villains
who people who are willing to contextualize themselves as the beasts that they feel they've
been categorized as by the broader society around them. And we saw that during
the eighties and nineties. And I think one thing that pisses people off about
the Satanic Temple more than anything else is that we self identify on our own
terms and don't play the game of trying to appear as the monsters they want
us to be. But it's still insisting that that's what we are. I
did a story recently about the prohibition on alcohol one hundred plus years ago.
All Right, we're going to make it illegal, We're going to keep people
from doing it in the name of morality, And instead the entire culture went
underground and people found a way and not only was it ineffective, but it
was actually harmful because now you weren't getting revenue dollars or tax dollars, and
people were starting to make their own hoops and sometimes it contained toxins which either
harmed or killed them, and there are all kinds of side effects. And
at the end of the day ten years they just pulled a plug on prohibition
and said, whoops, that didn't work. And that seems to be the
case with so much we see the Bible Belt States. They're usually the highest
in all kinds of things, whether it's team pregnancy or porn use. I
think you know Utah, right, I think Utah is either one or two
in porn use these days, I don't know it is. Yeah, well,
and you know kind of. I think the overall theme is if Satan
you make us, then Satan we shall be. And so whether that's people
who identify Satanists or they identify with any other counterculture, and whether it's a
social counterculture or anything like that, I mean, yeah, it is a
self fulfilling prophecy, and people will eventually just embrace the identities of which is
bestowed upon them or something that they're just like well, all right, if
that's what you want me to be in the fuck it, I'm gonna go.
You know, I'm going to turn it up to eleven. Utah was
number one in porn and then should be left yep, yep, and now
it's down to what six, yeah, or fifty? So I didn't mean
to walk out of you there. There's a little bit of a delay.
Are and Raw, go ahead, brother. My thought is on the on
porn use in Utah. If you live in Utah and you don't have a
four wheel drive vehicle and the money to go play with one, then what
else is there to do? That's a whole other show. I'm sorry.
I always wondered if those endowment ceremonies really did get kind of freaky. Everybody's
already dressed in the sheet being in Texas Governor Abbott Are and Raw, Holy
shit. I thought I had it bad with Kevin Stitt in Oklahoma, who
just dedicated the entire goddamn state of Oklahoma to Jesus. He had a prayer
right after the twenty twenty two election. He wins overwhelmingly, and the first
thing he does is he has a prayer, public prayer, and he dedicates
the whole state to Jesus. Abbott does the same stuff down there, right,
Abbot is disastrous. I feel so bad. I was with Wendy Davis.
I was at her convention where she was running against Abbot, and we
were there when she had to make the concession that he had won. We
canvassed for her because we thought that Wendy Davis was a heroic figure who what
she's famous for is that she had herself fitted with a catheter so that she
wouldn't have to take restroom breaks while she used a filibuster to beat back the
anti abortion legislation that Texas was trying to pass back in twenty eleven. I
think it was and she was a hero. I mean, what she did
in order to save our rights was literally heroic. And I was so moved,
and it was an internet phenomenon what was going on with her. And
so when she ran for governor, we were supportive. We did interviews with
her a couple of times, and it was it was so sad to see
Abbot beat her for the governor's race. And it's pathetic in this state that
no one seems to learn the lessons they get. Abbott and there after Perry
after Bush. It's like this state can't learn, they can't figure out,
Hey, this was a mistake. This was another mistake. We'll follow that
with another mistake. We live in a culture where people people elect Marjorie Taylor
Green, like I thought the first time, I'm like, all right,
well, she was unopposed, and this is a sort of a freaky you
know, this is just anomaly. And the fact that she was now re
elected and then appointed to what Homeland Security that committee, and I just I
feel like we're circling the drain. I'll bounce it back to you, Lucian.
You want to talk about this, because talking Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren
Bobert's, etc. They're all satanic panickers, right right, Yeah, And
that's a really worrisome development when people really are taking these irrational ideas seriously and
they get out into the mainstream culture, and people become more activated because you
hear them claiming things about us that, if they were true, would justify
severe action against us. The ideas and that kind of thing, you mean,
right right, And you know, we get those kinds of messages where
people say they're going to act upon those vigilante impulses and everything else. And
I do think the rhetoric more and more is ramping up to inevitable violence.
And I'm just really discouraged that it seems like on the extreme ends of the
political spectrum, people just can't get enough of their dictators. They want them,
you know. And I was horrified when I was recently watching a lecture
on YouTube scholar was talking about Mao, And you know, to me,
Mao is neither left wing nor right wing, either conservative nor liberal a dictator.
As a dictator, it's all pretext for centralizing power for their own agenda
whatever, whatever it is, according to their whim, and that's how they
behave. But to see during the Q and A, somebody raised their hand
and dress the scholar down for not talking about the offenses committed by the US
and their foreign policy and things like that, and suggesting that because the US
has made numerous unforgivable missteps, that we would be just as well under Mao,
who was sending all his food to other countries to try to enlist them
into a World War three in which he would come out the top leader,
to the point where citizens were starving by the million to pretend that that's no
worse than where we are now is a very disturbing mindset to me. And
I feel like with the extreme polarization we're dealing with now, it's that all
are nothing mentality from the polarized segments. And I just begin to feel that
in the same way that people do not seem to learn in Texas, in
the same way we keep progressively electing in these less and less competent, less
and less rational, less and less coherent politicians, that it seems like humanity
just needs to run these cycles again and again and we have to go through
a period of autocracy before people wake up and realize that that's not the optimal
way to live. And I really hope that's not the way of it.
But I've been feeling pessimistic of late, and I honestly think Satanism, our
identification as Satanists, our fight for these principles where we try to get people
to exercise blind neutrality. You don't have to like what we look like,
you don't even have to like what we say, but you set even legal
parameters that everybody follows, including us, and you set that aside. I
think that's become so lost, and it's becoming lost more and more on the
left as it's been lost for so long on the right. And that's what's
really just distressing to me, is both sides driving each other's extremism to the
point where I feel like we have an inevitable showdown with dictatorship. Should least
you want to weigh in on any of what we've been talking about, well,
I mean, I don't disagree with anything that's been said. And what
we have constantly run up against is this idea that you know, the reason
there is this such support for people in positions of authority that want to wield
that as a weapon against the minority is that people don't realize is that that
has a larger effect, that's a larger impact. Eventually it will hit home
with them. You know. It's like you see these you see these political
commentators like the Ben Shakiros and things who considering we are living in an era
of not only satanic panic, but you know now we're seeing a rise and
anti semitism not only with politicians but now pop stars and and things like that.
So people using their platforms to push these rhetorics. Is that people like
the Ben Shapiros who do identify as being a part of the people who are
currently at the center of the rhetoric. But you know, as long as
they stay on the side of those who are in the power of oppression,
they think that they're going to be, you know, seen as the good
ones. Therefore they're not going to be subject to the consequences of the actions.
But what they don't realize is that they're going to be sharing the same
jail cell with the rest of us. It'll just hit them last. So
it's that complete disconnection of thinking that so long as I stand next to the
oppressor, I will be safe from my eventual imprisonment because I still am a
part of that demographic that is currently you know, being oppress. So yeah,
no, I mean we've we've seen it all the time. This is
just basic human history and it's just unfolding on a skill And yeah, it's
not just going to be Satanists. Almost like they're saying, hey, I'd
rather be a pet than cattle, right, yeah, basically, yeah,
but you know they'll put the cat down to Yeah, I would imagine how
my family reacted what I and when I announced that I've now joined the Satanic
temple, because I've already been hearing from my family people that tell me that,
you know, the right wing conservative, Christian nationalist authoritarians who vote constantly
vote against their own interests, completely oblivious to the fact that that is what
they're doing, right, and they want to say that it's a it's a
dichotomous us versus them kind of mentality where everything is binary, and where every
leftist must everybody who's not an extreme right wing authoritarian must be a radical leftist,
and everyone who ever voted Democrat is a pedophile, devil worshiper. And
I asked, I asked my own mother. I said, do you really
believe that Tom Hanks drinks raped baby's blood while he worships the devil? And
her answer was, you can't prove he doesn't. What do you do with
that? We're circling the drain Like I'm an optimistic guy, but the last
few years of reveal my own naivete. Maybe I've been deluded and kidding myself.
I want to bounce out of politics. That's kind of a deeper dive
that we may return to interest in the kind of cartoonish satan that many of
these people are so afraid of, you know, the red skin and the
horns, and you know it looks like a very naughty hell boy. Has
anyone gotten into the origins of our perception of Satan where that comes from?
Can anyone speak to that? I don't want to upstage Lucian, you know,
but I mean, yeah, I did. I did a speech on
this in your state in Oklahoma City. I did a speech called to give
the Devil of Due where I talked about the origins of Satan and on gram
On you and hash it aremand the opposer from Zoroastrianism. And he isn't a
Satan, just the adversary. I don't know. I mean, he's the
adversary, he's the accuser, he's the opposer. And what I what I
particularly like about this is and you find this in the Bible, you know,
when Satan argues with Jesus, right, and so Satan is trying to
make is trying to dissuade Jesus from making these assertions that are that are not
evidently true. Right. So Satan is just trying to get Jesus to be
honest, is the way I interpret this. But of course the way that
they write it out in the Bible. Is not a rational argument, not
not the sort of argument that a rational person would make. Satan is trying
to negotiate with Jesus. You know, I'll give you all the kingdoms if
you'll renounce God. Well, we know that that's not a rational argument to
make. But Satan takes Jesus to the top of a high mountain where you
can see all of the kingdoms of the world because they thought it was flat
right. Satan as a character is the person who embodies reason against faith.
So faith is asserting things that are not evidently true, and you're gonna believe
it anyway, right, So that's basically lying. So, and the Lord
of lies is the one who actually cares about the truth and says that you
should not say things that you cannot show the truth of it. You shouldn't
say things are true if he can't show the truth of it. So Satan
is the more honest character. Yet he's considered the lord of lies. And
God has a liar even in the Bible. And I'm going to make a
video about that zone. And yet God is supposed to be the ultimate truth,
and Jesus is the truth. Why why is he the truth with the
capital T, because it's all a lie and every lie is cast that way.
Lucian Graves. You want to jump in on our perception of Satan.
Yeah, there are some great histories that talk about the imagery of Satan and
how that evolved, and how some of it came from racist perspectives of other
people, the colors of the skin, images from the prototypical Jewish person incorporated
into the image of Satan, similar to Nosperado and things like that. But
sometimes I feel like delving into the finer details of the history of the literary
evolution of Satan obscures the larger point, Like when some of our opposition look
and they say, well, Satan, who are they really worshiping? And
then they look into obscure texts and tell us this is the truth about Satan.
I don't see throughout this literary history that there is a single truth to
who Satan is. To a certain degree, it becomes an archetype, the
opposition of the unified One, the God that is supposed to command us all
be omniscient and command our lives and morality and other such things. And now
Satan is kind of this intuitive archetype of independent thinking and liberation for those who
identify as Satanists, rather than a kind of adherence to a specific literary character
in specific quotes necessarily from a revolt of the angels or a paradise lost or
anything out. I think without having that historical context, without reading the Bible
from Isaiah on and seeing how God kind of divides from being the author of
darkness and light, the author of good and evil, into a more Zoroastrian
conception of being all good in opposition to the ultimate evil on the other side,
I think the contexts that we're in now, the rise of theocracy in
the United States and our efforts to import it throughout the world, give people
a real intuitive sense of the value of Satanism, and that's why our numbers
have grown so significantly throughout time. Even being one of the most denigrated religious
titles of all time. Should LEAs I'm going to come to you in just
second, but let me follow up at lution. Do you think, though,
that there's utility if we reverse engineer our notions of satan which exposes that
this idea is man made or human made, and there is utility in that
right if you back. Yeah, I think there's particular utility in looking at
that imagery and seeing how it was often called together from unjust denigrations of other
people's just to understand that and get past that, and really you can then
realize that the harm that kind of thinking does, that kind of othering,
that kind of making a prize of people, in putting a kind of composite
image of Satan upon it, It's never served us towards any positive end.
And I think at its best, secular interpretations that argue against Satanism will say
that it's needlessly provocative, but we don't see it that way. I honestly
think that if people could see it for what it is, could see the
damage that that kind of mothering does, they would see that there's actually something
noble in what we're doing and trying to redeem the name of Satan, as
ridiculous as that may sound to them. Chlis blithe bighead horns, white fanged
teeth, pointy tale Satan. I don't know what's your take on all this.
The icon of Satan that most people think about, it's evolved over time.
I mean, even even the character of Satan has evolved from its origins
of what Satan was, even in Abrahamic religions. So you know, it
goes from the archangel that was actually working in tandem or at the behest of
God as the accuser, the one who was actually delving out the accusations to
those and with that comes with justice, justice, quote unquote. And then
over the years, Satan has then become a caricature of what people deemed evil,
depending on when you're talking about. So what was deemed evil, what
was deemed other over the course of human history looks different, and a lot
of them when people think of, you know, pop culture Satan. Yeah,
like you said, with the red skin, the horns, the very
animalistic traits that are usually associated with Satan comes from what people have placed upon
as being negative attributes of those who have been othered over the years, and
even what Satan represents to self identified Satanists tends to differ over time. So
even in Satanism, which as a religious identity didn't even exist until the nineteen
sixties, right, what Satan represents as an icon or how we conceptualize,
whether it's the romantic Satanists, the metonic Satanists, those who seem more beauty
and ethereal, where other Satanists associate Satan with more you know, animalistic carnal
traits. Even that differs within Satanism. But yeah, I think pop culture
what people tend to associate Satan with. Generally speaking, it's just carryovers from
the negative atobates that people put upon the others. Over the years. I
I've done some writing about a dissonance, a feeling of discomfort. There was
a tritone chord that the heavy metal bands love to use, called the Tritone,
and there's something about it that makes people uncomfortable because the notes aren't harmonic
in a comfortable way. And I feel like maybe that relates to so much
of the rest of the culture of people who are programmed or maybe even evolved
to see something serpentine or or you know, something that is foreign or just
gives them the willies, therefore it must be demonic. I don't know,
would you agree disagree with any of that? Anybody sounds good to me?
Okay? For whatever reason, seeing something serpentine never bothered. Well, how
many snakes do you have? Twenty six? All right, halt the moment,
But technically it's really thirty because Aaron tweets this. He says, there
is a venomous snake in my house and I can't find it. It's loose.
What the hell aren? And so I follow up and say what you
keep venomous snakes? And it got out and your response was, well,
it's not that nimis sorry, what kind of snake? It was a false
water cobra. But it's a false water cobra. When I remember, I
mean, honestly, I'm all good, like if reptiles ring your bell,
knock yourself out. Short break. We continue show six to sixty six with
my special panel of the Devil's Minions. Next. Thanks for listening on broadcast
number six six six. I couldn't really think of what else I wanted to
do to mark this show. Everybody's like, what are you going to do
when you hit that milestone? And I thought, well, let's talk to
Satanists. Lucian Grieves and Chalise Blithe of the Satanic Temple and a Satanist as
well, are in Raw who is a dear friend and been on this broadcast
many times. Anybody else struck by the fact that all the Christians, the
Ronda Santiss and the Greg abbots and the Marjorie Taylor Greens, everybody freaking out
about the devil, your local pastor. They're all wigged out about six six
six, the anti Christ, the beast, and they're always losing their minds.
And yet these things must happen according to the Christian scriptures in order for
God's plan to be fulfilled. So they're losing their minds and terrified over something
that is actually pre ordained and must happen before they see heaven. Has anybody
else gone down that rabbit hole? People go down that rabbit hole for us,
and you know, fortunately for me. You know, especially amongst Islamists,
there's the legend of the anti Christ who's going to arise, who has
a scarred over right eye, just like myself. So occasionally we see YouTube
videos pop up about that or in upsurge in some kind of interest in that,
and that's always fun. People put together the pieces for you. Since
you've been on Fox News, Tucker Carlson, et cetera, do you ever
get recognized out there? Holy shit, it's the Satanist from Fox News or
wherever that ever happened. Yeah, all the time. I guess I'm just
maybe it is the I thing or whatever. But I think people see me
one time, they're going to recognize me a year more later. So do
you ever fear for your safety? You're a high profile Satanist and a whack
a doodle Christian nationalist, Satanic, panic culture everything. Yes, every day.
I don't even I don't even have friends over my place, wow,
because I worry they'll tell you know, they not that they'll do it intentionally,
but pretty soon everybody will know where I am and I'll have to move
over again or whatever a time. I feel like I'm in the witness relocation
program at this point. Yeah, I have a have a slightly different perspective.
I feel that I'm old. Have they had a good run. I've
made the most of life, even when I was a dirt assport, which
seems to be a perpetual situation for me. But I've done better than then.
Anyone predicted that I would. My own family raised me with all kinds
of negative reinforcement, telling me I'll never amount to anything. You know,
My family, interestingly, were all carpenters and always told me that I might
be the world's greatest ditch digger, but I would have never amount to anything.
They told me this as a child, and whatever happens to me,
they can't take away what I've done beyond their expectations. So I can think
of few better ways to die than as a martyr for what I actually believe
in, and it's not just atheism, is what I don't believe in.
If what I do believe in, I believe in truth, and that means
that I have to contest lies, and if I die for that cause,
then that's a better way to go than a lot of other options. Like
Satan. You you stood against repression, oppression, and tyranny, So that's
interesting, more proof that are in worships Satan. But in Texas, if
you go out and stand on the street corner, you're at standing at the
corner of Smith and Wesson in Texas. Let's say you had on the Satanism
T shirts. I know we're guessing, what do you think would happen.
I've worn Satanist T shirts in a number of different places. I hosted a
Satanic gathering at a Hungarian vampire bar, you know, as you do in
downtown Dallas. And I don't have the fear of that because, as I
said, if somebody, if somebody were to violently attack me over that,
all they can do is take my life. And at sixty years old,
what are they what are they doing? They're probably sparing me from months in
cancer treatment or something like that. So, I mean, there are certainly
worse ways to go then for what you believe in. Wow, I don't
know, Chalis. Do you ever find yourself wanting to crawl from the front
door to the car in the prone position? I mean, I don't know
where you live now or do you Are you in a Jesus area or not
anything. I mean I'm in a very Catholic area. Yeah, I'm no
longer in Utah, but I am very realistic about so when it comes to
concerns about my safety, I consider myself very realistically aware of people wanting to
make violent decisions about what their beliefs are of who I am despite them being
completely wrong. When I was still living in Utah, I was running the
one of the after school Satan programs and one of the elementary schools, and
I had a family member who took a very serious offense to that, and
they decided to distribute my legal name and my address on the internet. So
somebody had gotten that information and had shown up at my house and their stated
intent was to kill me. They had their nine millimeter. I had to
call the cops. It was a whole thing. So that happened. And
you know, I think my experience of being a public Satanist is, you
know, the same experience I have being a woman in this world. You
know, the consequence, the price I'd pay being a woman in this world
is probably the same that I pay the price for for being a public Satanist.
So when it comes to general safety, I mean, I'm very careful
about making sure that the effects of the decisions people make about whether or not
they think I deserve to live or die doesn't impact those around me, the
people I care about, my family, you know. And I have absolutely
no intention of leaving this world that is not on my own terms. But
I also understand the world for what it is. I don't accept it,
but I understand what it is. So I mean, if you know,
kind of like what Arn said, if I have to go into the ground
because somebody decides to take that violent action against me, while at least I
did something right, you know, and I didn't back down, and I
didn't shy away from my beliefs, and you know, being very open about
that. So um, yeah, I don't want to be a martyr.
I don't want to I don't want to die because of that. But you
know it's just I've just accepted it for what it is. You've been generous
with your time here on show number six six six. Any final thoughts.
We want to talk about the number. I want to talk about Satan,
you want to talk about your work, you want to talk about the culture.
I'll just let you take whatever baton you're in the mood to take,
R and ray. I'll just start with you. I know you're never at
a loss for words, and I mean that as a compliment. What are
your final thoughts? Brother? When you read out the line from the Bible
you ought to read the same version that Iron Maiden read out in their album
Number of the Beast, Well, shit, what is that? Now?
I gotta I gotta go find it whatever. I'll let you look it up.
I will emulate that now, I will. Were you ever afraid of
Satan? Like? Did it ever bug you aren? Did you ever come
from that? I was accused, I was accused of being a devil worshiper,
the entire time. Ever, every time I ever questioned anything about the
Bible when I was when I identified as Christian, when I thought of myself
as a Christian, I was still being accused of being a devil worshiper or
you were afraid of the devil, though when you identified as a Christian.
I'm very fortunate in that my family didn't believe a lot in hell. So
I was raised by a mostly Mormon family and hell and damnation was not their
fixation. But that was the first thing that I had to reject when I
was still a Christian. When I was still a child, I had to
reject the notion of hell because hell is inconsistent with God. If God was,
and I believed in God at this time. But I thought, okay,
if God and Hell cannot both exist at the same time because one contradicts
the other, well, a benevolent God, perhaps certain, any God worthy
of worship, any God worthy of the announce of respect, would not allow
a hell to exist because a malevolent deity could you know, he could excuse,
he could create an excuse hell like that. That's fair. Yeah,
But when I realized that hell is just the ultimate excuse, it's the threat
of a fate worse than death. It's for the people who if you spend
two minutes thinking about heaven, you're going to see huge problems with it.
My grandmother used to use the argument in heaven will all the streets are made
paved with gold, and we'll all live in mansions. And my first thought,
at I don't know, ten years old, is why would we need
shelter in heaven? But these are loss that would never have entered my grandmother's
mind. The one I've always heard is it's there's no pain or grief or
sorrow in heaven whatsoever. And I'm like, well, if do you know
that I'll be in hell screaming and roasting and unimaginable agony. And they're like,
yes, well, then in heaven, how could you ever experience perfect
peace and no sorrow and pain knowing that was happening? And often what I
get is, well, God wipes your brain, which means it's not you,
it's somebody else. So at least any final thoughts on what we've been
talking about on the well himself? Anything, Well, you know, I've
oh, I've I've often heard that the description of hell is being the absence
of God, and all I can say is that I am I've never been
more happy to be among the flames, you know. I have not felt
more peace of mind and more more comfort in my authentic self than being a
Satanist. And I'm glad I finally found my coming home religion and finally found
myself in it. I just want to say that when we went to Satan
Cohn, which was an amusing thing to announce to my family that I was
going to be a speaker at Satan Cohn. We went to their Satanic ball,
and I remember my wife, who was raised both as a Catholic and
as a Protestant, you know, by different sides of her family, each
telling her that the other side is going to go to Hell. And so
she came from a very strong Christian background. She had the nightmares about hell
and damnation and all that that she spent years trying to recover from. But
I got to watch her race her Goth side as she entered the Satanic ball
and just belong and she said, and I just just had meaning for me
when she walked into the Satanic Ball. I got to see all of the
Goth people and everything, and listening to the kind of the you know,
the metal rave kind of music that was playing at the moment that we walked
in, and she says, I think I found my people, and it
was huguely meaningful for me. She she got so much out of that,
especially cooking from the background that she did. I think there's an element of
I don't want to minimize what you're about, but there's an element of play
to it. Like the things that terrify so many other people, they're sort
of an esthetic for you know, this whole group over here. It's sort
of the window dressing. It's it's theater, and I know it's much more
than that. Lucian grieves. I don't know. Does that sound insulting to
non theistic Satanism? If I say it that way, I know it's to
you much more right now, I think it's I think the more important message
to put out to people is that they don't They don't have to like satan,
they don't have to like Satanic imagery, they don't have to like us.
I think too often when we're speaking, people try to evaluate whether they
find merit in our legal battles, in whether they agree with us whether they
find us reasonable, whether they find us likable, and sometimes they do and
that's great, but I think it shouldn't matter if we were the Communist Party,
the Catholic League, Satanists, whomever else. You shouldn't be allowing there
to be the subjective latitude of politicians to denigrate an entire group based upon viewpoint
from an unprincipled perspective that doesn't apply the law equally to all. And I
think we really need to get back into that mindset where we recognize that even
people we absolutely loathe the same legal rights we do, and they only lose
those rights when they stand outside of those legal boundaries, and that we should
protect those rights with everything we have or they're going to be lost for all
of us. And I think that is the most important message the Satanic Temple
can impress upon people now that obviously resonated with Urn's Hellhound, which I think
I heard barking, and I still apologize that I didn't jump straight to the
mute button knowing that the dog is going to go on. No, No,
not at all. I mean, I've got some critters here and they
love to make their presence as known. Chalise Blithe r and Raw, Lucian
Graves, thanks for helping me mark the day show number six six six.
I mean I came from a culture that programmed me to be afraid, and
it's just amazing to be able to look at all this and not only not
be afraid, but to say, hey, if it suits you, if
you love it, if it's your esthetic, if knock yourself out. Beyond
that, I've actually come to see Satan is I know, was it Lucian
who likes to say you framed Satan in the context of rebellion against tyranny?
Am I misquoting you? There? Is that accurate? Nope, that is
accurate. Yeah, I mean it was Satan who said, oh, this
is a bunch of bullshit. Yeah, you don't get to do this.
Yahweh, and he formed a resistance. I kind of like that, and
it's been fun to embrace that in my own life. So thank you to
all of you for helping me celebrate the day. All my best in your
endeavors, and let's talk again soon. Okay, so much. Follow The
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