WEBVTT

1
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:45.920
Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. This is your host,

2
00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:54.039
Alejandro Rojas, and I am here
with my good buddy Jason McClain. Jas.

3
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.600
That's that's a weird sounding name there, friend. I tried to say

4
00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:03.960
it in kind of a cultural I
appreciate culture. All of us appreciate culture.

5
00:01:03.760 --> 00:01:07.040
Is that your Nixon voice or what's
going on here? I don't know

6
00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:11.200
what it is. It's Monday,
I'm feeling kind of crazy and why yeah

7
00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:15.239
too, So that wasn't any particular
voice. That was just me enjoying some

8
00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:19.480
coffee. Yeah, I feel we
got a case of facilities or something.

9
00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:25.040
Huh. Yes, always McClellan and
mcclenn. McClellan. Well, it's good

10
00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:26.359
to be talking to you again,
my friend. I hope you had a

11
00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:32.840
wonderful weekend. Absolutely always do.
And I want to mention our guest.

12
00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.480
I'm very excited about our guest,
who is Philip Mantle, who's a UFO

13
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:40.959
researcher from the UK. We had
him on before. I think we talked

14
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:47.680
about why the alien autopsy was fake, which pretty much most people know,

15
00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:53.319
but he's done a lot of research
to detail the background to demonstrate all of

16
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.519
this. So he's in fact,
I think he's one of the most learned

17
00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:00.719
on that subject of anybody I know
of. However, that is not what

18
00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:07.040
we spoke about are speaking about today. We are speaking abduction. So he's

19
00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:15.159
written a fiction book on alien abductions
and it's a very clever title, Once

20
00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:19.159
Upon a Missing Time. I love
the title. But it is a compilation

21
00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:23.120
of the research he's done. And
what's great is we get to talk to

22
00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:28.439
him about a lot of UK abduction
cases, which people in the United States

23
00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:31.240
are not so familiar with because we
know, you know, Betty Hill and

24
00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:38.240
Travis Walton and some of the American
cases. So it's going to be great

25
00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:40.759
to talk to him about that.
He's a really great researcher and cool guy,

26
00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:47.759
so very very excited about it.
Plus, I love the UK.

27
00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:53.599
I love the English. They rock. I was watching a good UK show

28
00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:55.680
last night, Gavin and Stacy.
By the way, Jason, just in

29
00:02:55.719 --> 00:03:01.199
case you were curious, that's what
you're watching. Yeah, I watched a

30
00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:07.960
lot of UK stuff. But anyhow, let's get into the news. Of

31
00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:10.759
course, Jason and I like to
review some of the top news of the

32
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:19.719
week, and Jason, what story
has particularly Piaud your interest while a hunter.

33
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:23.159
Last week was a doozy for news, pretty exciting week in news,

34
00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:30.360
But I'd like to talk about a
story here, and many of you probably

35
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:36.800
remember, there was a pretty incredible
sighting last year in Kentucky October of last

36
00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:42.280
year by a amateur astronomer, Ellen
Epplin. You saw the cigar shaped UFO

37
00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:49.000
overhead in the sky, and he
took pictures of it and made huge headlines.

38
00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.759
Then it was kind of dismissed quickly, people claiming that it was a

39
00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:58.639
solar balloon or something. Not everybody
bought that, but it kind of went

40
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:03.000
away. Now back in the news
again because Google, of all people,

41
00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:10.080
is claiming responsibility for that particular UFO. And here's why. So Google unveiled

42
00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:18.000
a project they've been working on that
is trying to bring Internet connectivity to remote

43
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:26.040
locations. So they've got these balloons
they launch up that create this network that

44
00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:31.399
allows Internet transmission in these rural areas. So this project they just announced,

45
00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:38.439
it's called Project Loon, and they
show some videos on Project Project Loon's website

46
00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.319
shows these long balloons that look like, you know, kind of normal weather

47
00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:46.959
balloons that have a package on the
bottom. These big long balloons don't really

48
00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:53.920
look like the same object that Alan
Eppling photographed. And the other interesting thing

49
00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:59.120
about Alan Eppling's sighting, based on
his testimony, the object he observed was

50
00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:04.040
motionless in the sky for two hours, which doesn't really fit the behavior of

51
00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.639
a balloon. Now, we don't
know exactly what he saw. We don't

52
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:11.000
know exactly what Allen meant by motionless. You know, there could have been

53
00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:16.800
some bobbing and difficulty determining actual motion
of things. That this object he saw

54
00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:23.240
was extremely high in the sky,
and these Project Loon balloons fly extremely high

55
00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:27.319
in the sky, higher than airplanes, about sixty thousand feet above Earth.

56
00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:33.079
So it's certainly possible that he was
watching a balloon and it wasn't moving left

57
00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.600
or right. It was going up
and down, catching different air currents to

58
00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:43.199
remain sort of in the same place. And Google claims that these Project Looon

59
00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:47.079
balloons they have the ability to somewhat
control them and the direction they take.

60
00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:53.120
They're able to vent the air in
the balloons to prevent them from popping if

61
00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:57.399
the pressure gets too intense. So
who knows, I mean, Google,

62
00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:02.360
The people involved in Project Lunar quite
convinced that that was their one of their

63
00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:08.319
balloons they were testing out before this
project was announced. But many are still

64
00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:13.519
doubtful, right, I mean,
you've got a couple of good points in

65
00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.959
that it stayed still for a long
period of time. And I mean,

66
00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:21.680
I think the video does show what
looks like a clear balloon, but it's

67
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:28.399
elongated, cylindrical, whereas these Google
ones looked more like a typical, you

68
00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:34.040
know, tear drop kind of balloon
shape, right, so possibly from so

69
00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:38.759
that that kind of doesn't fit.
And then the two hours. But at

70
00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:42.160
the same time, it's a big
piece of clear plastic up in the sky,

71
00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.600
which is what the video appears to
be. So it's kind of a

72
00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.120
tough call on this one. I
really think that even if it isn't this

73
00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:54.000
balloon, it is like kind of
a clear piece of plastic. And we

74
00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:59.360
were talking with a buddy of ours, market Antonio, who actually made some

75
00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:01.319
of those solar balloons that you see
of and I you know, I know,

76
00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:06.639
we've gone to websites to look at
how people make these solar balloons at

77
00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:12.600
their houses, and usually they use
trash bags, so you could just use

78
00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.000
clear trash bags instead of black ones
like most people do. And I guess

79
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.839
it doesn't work as good as a
black but so yeah, kind of interesting

80
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:27.720
though. It's always interesting when these
guys come out and their attitude is so

81
00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.959
this is definitely it. It was
me, And it's kind of like with

82
00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.800
not a whole lot of info,
yeah, exactly. And you know,

83
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:40.560
there's a lot of interesting backstory or
additional information with this, this whole Allen

84
00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:45.399
Elflin's sighting, because you know,
the object was seen in multiple states.

85
00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:49.639
And no, I can't confirm this, I'm just saying what I've read,

86
00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:56.879
but people who charted the path of
where this object or similar object could have

87
00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:03.079
been a different object was seen during
that time line back in October. It

88
00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:11.759
was going or flying in a direction
that isn't typical of air currents. But

89
00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:16.199
air currents, my understanding, fly
in different directions at different altitudes, so

90
00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:22.040
who knows. But and this Google
says they're balloon eventually wound up in Canada,

91
00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.120
and I'm not entirely sure where in
Canada, So that'd be interesting to

92
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:31.360
look into as well, because I
know this particular UFO that Ellen Epplin saw

93
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:37.879
in Kentucky sort of moved east and
people even saw it over in New York.

94
00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:43.000
So, but you're right, it's
interesting how they can just claim with

95
00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:48.399
certainty that it was absolutely their object, right. Yeah, so we posted

96
00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.759
beyond that. You know, a
lot of videos last week too, so

97
00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:56.759
people have to check those out.
Although most of them, you know,

98
00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.080
we're something mundane. A couple of
them are pretty like Minneapolis I thought was

99
00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:07.879
interesting, and went in San Antonio
that was somewhat interesting. So yeah,

100
00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:11.159
people have to check that out.
But that's not what my story is about.

101
00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:15.519
I'm going to talk about users story, the big story of the week,

102
00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:20.879
which was Area fifty one, which
is kind of funny because it's just

103
00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.639
a little bit of a non story. It's just kind of interesting. The

104
00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:30.360
CIA, there's this document that actually
has been released for something like ten or

105
00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:35.559
eleven years ago on the history of
the UTWO and oxcart, which is a

106
00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:43.240
program to develop the SR seventy one
essentially, and they talk about the histories

107
00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.879
of these programs, but they don't
talk about where it was built. And

108
00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.600
in this document when they released it
in the past, it's been severely had

109
00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.799
tons of reaction. In other words, a lot of stuff blacked out,

110
00:09:54.919 --> 00:10:00.720
including references to Area fifty one.
Although once in the past. They actually

111
00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:05.840
forgot to take out one of the
Area fifty one references. So finally what

112
00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:09.960
they did was last Thursday they re
released it. There was a group at

113
00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:16.720
George Washington University, the National Security
Archives. They asked them to re examine

114
00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:24.600
the secret declassification, and so they
did. They sent this request, interestingly

115
00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.480
in two thousand and five, so
it took like eight years for them to

116
00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.159
finally decide to declassify the majority of
it. So now most of it is

117
00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:39.720
not redacted, including references to Area
fifty one. So since it was it's

118
00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:45.240
a CIA document, it's essentially you
can pretty much say, okay, the

119
00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:52.879
CIA is finally declassifying Area fifty one
in the name Area fifty one. Although

120
00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.600
you know, I did an interview
with John Greenwald and he has done these

121
00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.679
Foyer requests for a long time,
and he actually had a couple other documents

122
00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:07.720
that Area fifty one was mentioned,
and one was the Atomic Energy Commission who

123
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:13.120
used to own that land Area fifty
one, and they said they had turned

124
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.720
to Area fifty one over to the
CIA for them to begin to build what

125
00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:24.360
we know as the current secret spyplane
base. The CIA eventually did turn that

126
00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.559
over to the Air Force. And
another document which was kind of cool was

127
00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:35.960
a document from the National Reconnaissance Office
and they had said that we want to

128
00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.720
fly a U two over Area fifty
one, and they mentioned the name Area

129
00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:45.879
fifty one in order to see what
the Soviets might see if they fly Sputnik

130
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:48.120
over and Sputnik has cameras, because
they didn't know if it did or anything.

131
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:52.360
This was in nineteen sixty two,
so they can get an idea of

132
00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:56.639
what the Russians would see. These
documents were released in just the last few

133
00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.559
years. I think John said he
got the first one at least in two

134
00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:05.279
thousand and one. So they have
been in documents, but now it's really

135
00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.240
hitting the news because essentially, you
know, it is kind of more of

136
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:13.440
an official kind of declassification that has
gone on, and it's always been a

137
00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:18.480
mystery. And I make the argument
that, you know, if Area fifty

138
00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:22.799
one hadn't been attached to aliens and
UFOs, which didn't start to happen till

139
00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:28.960
the late eighties, people probably would
have not made a big deal about it

140
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.279
existing. But a lot of people, I think, just because it was

141
00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:35.799
attached to UFOs and aliens, didn't
believe it existed. I get people even

142
00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.360
now saying, oh my gosh,
I couldn't believe it's real, and it's

143
00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:41.240
like, yeah, I you know, of course I've been telling you this

144
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:45.519
for years. Why would you doubt
it? And I think just because of

145
00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.960
the alien UFO type of things.
So and that's made a big, big

146
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.240
news, which is kind of cool. Yeah, huge news, And you're

147
00:12:54.320 --> 00:13:00.159
right, it is funny people's reaction, you know, despite everything over so

148
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:05.320
many years, people doubting that there's
even a base there, and you know,

149
00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:09.399
if you've paid attention to researchers or
anything at all, it's kind of

150
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.279
obvious. But the other funny thing
that you and I have talked about with

151
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:18.080
all the headlines and headlines are still
being made today and they'll continue being made

152
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.879
because every media outlet around the world
has been talking about this story. The

153
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:28.639
big mention in all these headlines are
about UFOs or lack of UFOs in this

154
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:35.200
say information and UFOs are specifically mentioned
in this release, which is funny because

155
00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:39.879
people aren't mentioning that, they're saying
no mention of UFOs, and there is

156
00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:46.960
specifically a mention about UFOs. It's
a funny mention, but saying that the

157
00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:52.679
U two is what caused a lot
of UFO sightings and what spawned Project blue

158
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.120
Book, which is inaccurate, as
you pointed out in a story on our

159
00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.320
website. Right, Yeah, that's
the angle I took gets UFOs wrong,

160
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:07.919
right, because yeah, blue Book
started in fifty one, and this article

161
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:13.000
says area fifty one didn't start in
the YouTube development until nineteen fifty five,

162
00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:16.639
So the flight started in the late
fifties. And we do know that the

163
00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.720
YouTube caused a lot of UFO sightings. One of the reasons because it flew

164
00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.879
higher than anything else. So if
you're a commercial jet, let's say,

165
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:31.360
flying at forty thousand feet and you
see something flying at sixty thousand feet,

166
00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:33.519
you're like, what the hell is
that? And nothing can fly that high.

167
00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.480
So it did creates some UFO reports. But yeah, blue Book is

168
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:43.759
much older. That's a complete misstatement. And you know, we keep hearing

169
00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:48.519
this from engineers too. I don't
remember that any what any Jacobsen was at

170
00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:52.200
her name ProBook and the engineers were
saying, oh, yeah, it's the

171
00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.320
alex KRT program. That's what people
were seeing. There aren't really UFOs.

172
00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:01.279
No UFOs are seen all around the
world, world and all around the country,

173
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:05.919
not just in the Area fifty one
area, and not just during that

174
00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.720
time, and not just during that
time. So that may account for some

175
00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:18.799
but certainly not all. Right,
interesting story nonetheless, yeah, definitely.

176
00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.559
So it keeps things exciting, keeps
things looking at this stuff. And I

177
00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.000
really appreciated I got to talk to
NBC and I loved her angle, which

178
00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:35.120
was UFO researchers greet the Area fifty
one news with a resounding duh. And

179
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.559
her point was that, you know, UFO people have been talking about this

180
00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:41.120
all the time, and now it's
finally acknowledged, and people doubted it was

181
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.799
real when they shouldn't have. And
you know, there's, of course,

182
00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:48.519
as we all know, and as
our listeners know, there's a lot of

183
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:54.480
credible information in this field that just
doesn't get looked at because of the giggle

184
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:58.759
factor or people just kind of rolling
their eyes to the whole idea of UFOs,

185
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:06.480
right, those lameos. All right, Well, thank you mister Jason

186
00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:10.720
for talking some news with me.
You bet, buddy, we'll do it

187
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:17.799
again soon. Let's just get into
our interview with mister Philip Mantle. I

188
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:22.440
am super excited to talk to a
friend from across the pond, as they

189
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:27.960
say, I've got Philip Mantle on
the phone. Hello, Hello, Alejandro.

190
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.879
Nice to speak to you. Nice
to speak to you too, or

191
00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.399
actually using Skype. I mean,
Skype is awesome. It makes a world

192
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:40.000
much smaller, huh, it does. Indeed, were wonders of modern technology

193
00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:45.480
exactly. So you've got this exciting
book that's come out about alien abductions.

194
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.600
But I guess to start off with
we'll talk a little bit about your background.

195
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:55.240
So you've been researching this topic UFOs
and abductions for decades, right,

196
00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.639
that's right, Alejandro. You know
it makes me sound really old, but

197
00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:08.039
I'm not honest. I started way
back in the late nineteen seventies with a

198
00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:14.200
small organization here called the Yorkshire UFO
Society. I live in the County of

199
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:19.480
Yorkshire, hence the name, and
that was started by Graham and Mark Bertel.

200
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:26.240
Graham went on later to edit UFO
Magazine. But if I'm honest,

201
00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:32.039
I'd always had an interest in all
things paranormal as far back as I can

202
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:36.640
remember, even at school, you
know, would I would be fascinated by

203
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.920
you know, ghosts and all kinds
of things, and I kind of fell

204
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.960
into this subject when I was around
about twenty years old, and you know,

205
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.200
it gripped me then and continues to
do so to this very day.

206
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:57.319
Right, Yeah, fascinating staff.
When you first became with associated then or

207
00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:03.880
interested in UFO research, were you
skeptical of the abduction phenomena or were you

208
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:08.000
open to it right from the starts? And today's kind of a a bit

209
00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:12.000
harder to take than simply just seeing
light in the sky, it is.

210
00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:15.880
I mean, if you think back
to when I started late late nineteen seventies,

211
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:22.680
around that time, there wasn't that
many well known abduction accounts that had

212
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:27.640
gone on the record. We're familiar
with the ones like Betty and Barley Hill,

213
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:33.839
for example. There was one really
two maybe really well known ones here

214
00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.079
in the UK, but there wasn't
an awful lot of them, so it

215
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.319
wasn't something that we really concentrated on, or even I concentrated on at that

216
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:48.599
particular time. We were fortunate that
to the north of where I live,

217
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.440
that is an area called the Yorkshire
Dales. It's a National park, lots

218
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:57.759
of hills, very beautiful, and
for whatever reason, we had a lot

219
00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:04.400
of us full sightings coming around in
and around those areas, especially around a

220
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:11.599
town called Skipton in North Yorkshire,
and that kept us pretty much occupied.

221
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:17.599
So there wasn't a lot of thoughts
or even involvement in what has become,

222
00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.319
you know, to be known as
the alien abduction phenomena. Although you know

223
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.559
we had come across it, it
wasn't a big thing in those days,

224
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:30.640
so that tended to come a little
bit later. So you kind of got

225
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:34.640
to follow the phenomena as it came
to fruition. I mean, as the

226
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:40.480
cases began to pile up, that's
right. I mean a colleague of ours

227
00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:47.119
who sadly no longer with us.
He was a police sergeant called Tony Dodd,

228
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:52.200
and Tony had a close encounter case
again from this particular area that I've

229
00:19:52.240 --> 00:20:00.559
just mentioned in North Yorkshire. A
very peculiar one and regressive hypnosis is used

230
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.720
and that kind of sparked the interest. But even today, Alejandro, you

231
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.519
know yourself, that is still a
bit of a stigma attached to the subject.

232
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.039
Certainly in those days the stigma was
far far greater then than it is

233
00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:21.359
today. People were very reluctant to
speak to you in the first instance,

234
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:26.680
and let alone go on the record
or go public with with their accounts in

235
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:33.519
any way, shape or form.
And it wasn't until much later that things

236
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:38.200
kind of started to change. It's
difficult to say why it changed. My

237
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:45.279
opinion is that we had people joined
the subject who gave it much more credibility.

238
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:51.640
One of those was the late Dr
John Mack, for example, and

239
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.119
in the UK we had the man
from the Ministry of Defense, Nick Pope.

240
00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.680
Nick now lives in the United States. I tended to give the subject

241
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.400
an air of credibility, and rightfully
so in my opinion, you know,

242
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:11.519
Harvard Professor Dr Mark Man from the
Ministry Nick Pope, and so it kind

243
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:17.640
of almost legitimized this area of research. And slowly, but surely, you

244
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:22.359
know, more people came forward with
their accounts. There were a small number

245
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.680
that, for whatever reason, were
prepared to go on the record and risk

246
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.799
the stigma that may come with it, or whatever came with it. They

247
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:37.000
felt it important enough to do that
and take on whatever came. And again,

248
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.480
you know, I was just fortunate
that you know, my name and

249
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:47.119
my telephone number sort of became known. I joined the British UFO Research Association

250
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:52.200
and became a director with them,
and you know, in those days there

251
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.640
was no Internet. It was the
telephone or the old passioned way of a

252
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.039
letter, and you know, things
started to come my way. And I

253
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.400
also got to know another gentleman again
who sadly no longer with us, Bod

254
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:11.119
Hopkins, of course, and Bud
and I met and on a number of

255
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.240
occasions he came and stayed with me. I hosted a number of conferences and

256
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.680
Bud was one of the keynote speakers, and we exchanged a lot of information

257
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:23.880
again across the pond, as you
mentioned, and just got fascinated with it,

258
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:27.519
or more and more fascinated, i
might say. And you know,

259
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:33.240
once you got to interview some of
these people and speak to them firsthand rather

260
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.480
than just read about it, it
really did leave me scratching my head.

261
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.799
That's probably why I've got a bold
patch, but you know it still does

262
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:48.039
today. And so kind of gradually
got into this particular field, Alejandro.

263
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:53.839
So you were researching all of this
during the time of the Travis Watton event,

264
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.039
and just to remind people, you
know, this is when the Laggers

265
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.359
in nineteen seventy five, so the
UFO, one of them approached it and

266
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:07.000
then went missing for five days and
I had this experience on board that he

267
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:14.000
recalls, how was that, you
know, being a researcher in the UK,

268
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:17.920
What was it like finding out about
that case? And what were you

269
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:22.839
guys thinking about that case? Well, I mean in that case and others,

270
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:26.680
you know, really hit the headlines. We had not the same type

271
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.240
of incident, but just a few
years after that, we had an incident

272
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.599
here again, just happened in the
county where I live. And although there

273
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.400
wasn't a lot of people involved,
it was one person. It was a

274
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:44.880
police constable. His name was Sir
Alan Godfrey. Alan was on police patrol

275
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:51.960
duty in his car at the time
in a town called todd Maden and believe

276
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:55.000
it or not, he'd been looking
for some stray cows all night, hadn't

277
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.759
found them, and they thought I'll
take all asked look before I finished my

278
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.000
shift. It'd spoken to an officer
on foot patrol in the town. It

279
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:07.680
was almost deserted the early hours of
the morning. He took one last drive

280
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:14.279
up through the high street and there's
a mill there and he noticed these lights

281
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.240
up ahead on the road. As
he got closer and realized it wasn't just

282
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:23.279
lights, there was a big diamond
shaped object blocking the road. He had

283
00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:26.440
a bank of panels across the middle
and the bottom half seemed to be spinning.

284
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.720
So Alan stopped his police patrol car. He tried to radio to the

285
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:34.359
base, couldn't get through, so
he took out his notepad and drew it.

286
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:38.839
The next thing Alan can remember,
He's been several hundred yards further down

287
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.799
the road driving the patrol car,
looked behind him and this thing had gone.

288
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:47.839
He turned the car around, went
back and there was a dry patch

289
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.079
on the road that it had been
raining during the night. And when Alan

290
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:55.119
got back to the police station he
was late. He couldn't account for that.

291
00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:00.039
The police issue boots were also split, and he had a burn on

292
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.000
one of his foots that wasn't there
the night before. The reason I mentioned

293
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.359
Alan Godfrey in connection with Travis Walton, it happened just a couple of years

294
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:11.680
later. For those that don't know, the Travis Walton case was made into

295
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:17.160
the movie Fire in the Sky.
Now, before that particular movie got the

296
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:22.400
green light, the production company also
spoke to Police Constable Alan Godfrey and they

297
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.640
came over to England to meet him, and it was a toss up between

298
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.799
him and Travis Walton on watch the
movie was made. Yeah, I mean

299
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:37.440
Alan later went under hypnosis, an
abduction scenario emerged. I've seen the tape

300
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:44.480
of the recording, and he eventually
it went public, you know, with

301
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:52.960
permission of his police bosses, if
you like, the Chief Constable and I

302
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:56.079
remember it, you know, when
it happened, it was a huge story.

303
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.680
And you know, I've met Alan
many times is what we call down

304
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:02.799
to policeman. I wouldn't have liked
to have come across him in his official

305
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:08.000
capacity. You know, he was
no nonsense. He had several commendations to

306
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:11.599
his name, you know, that
he received in the line of duty.

307
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.160
Unfortunately, a few years later he
was he was injured in the line of

308
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:21.000
duty and I had to retire on
medical grounds. But it was just fascinating,

309
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:25.799
you know. He was a gentleman, highly regarded by his his his

310
00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:30.000
fellow officers. The local community had
no interest in the subject. But like

311
00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:33.480
Travis, you know, they had
no real interest in the subject. They

312
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.000
were about their everyday work. I'm
fortunate enough to have met travels Travis a

313
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:42.359
few times and Mike Rodgers, one
of his colleagues there, and Alan to

314
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:48.440
this verny Day has never changed his
story, never embellished it elaborated, and

315
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:51.960
he said, you know, hired
a stone in my hand, Philip,

316
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.279
I could have thrown it at that
thing and it would have gone clug you

317
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:57.599
know, as you know, our
police officers don't carry guns, so it's

318
00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:00.640
the it's the it's the British police
Saman's equivalent, rather than shoot it.

319
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:10.160
But and you know, Alan himself
just scratches his head and you know,

320
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:11.839
I can only he said, I
can only tell you what I know and

321
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.480
that and that you make of it
what you will. And that really did

322
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.200
make the headlines and made people sit
up and take notes. But in mind,

323
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:23.640
of course, if p. C. Godfrey had seen someone you know,

324
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:30.440
breaking the law stealing a car for
example, or whatever his testimony was,

325
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.920
actually you know, could stand up
in court and he could put you

326
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:37.240
in prison, right you know.
So here's a man who said, well,

327
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.400
I encountered this peculiar vehicle one morning
blocking the road and this happened to

328
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.640
me. But yeah, people don't
believe him, so that seems kind of

329
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:51.319
strange to me, right, And
I can see the similarities were a down

330
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:56.759
to earth person not interested in the
topic, having these extraordinary events and then

331
00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.480
the story being consistent the entire time. Absolutely, I mean, you know,

332
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.440
the difference being with Travis, he
had, you know, other witnesses

333
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:10.839
to the initial event, his colleagues
working in the woods with him at the

334
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.680
time. PC Godfrey was on his
own, but he did have some physical

335
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.680
evidence that split boot and the burn
on his foot and things like that.

336
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:23.920
And also there was another similarity,
not not totally but unbeknown to Alan Godfrey.

337
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:30.400
The hills around Todd Meden are quite
steep and there was three other officers

338
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:37.279
at the same night on the hills
above the town looking for stolen motorcycles.

339
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.640
And there was three of them to
two male and one female officer, and

340
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:48.480
they witnessed her a UFO during the
night heading towards the town. You know,

341
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.279
Allan was totally unaware of this.
And again two out of the three

342
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:56.960
have spoken up. I've met one
of them. They've told their story and

343
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:57.960
they have no idea what they saw, you know, in the like,

344
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:02.680
in their official due they've seen just
about everything, but they hadn't seen anything

345
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:10.000
like that on that particular evening.
Are there other cases that you know aren't

346
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:15.680
as popular over here in the United
states that were some early credible abduction cases

347
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:19.400
out there. There is indeed,
I mean, you know, again similar

348
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:26.200
time frame to Travis Walton and Alan
Godfrey, different part of the country,

349
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.759
this time down further down south of
England, in a place called Aveley in

350
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:36.440
Essex. And it was a gentleman
called John Day with his wife Sue and

351
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:41.359
their children, and they'd been out
to visit family one evening. And again

352
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:47.920
this is if you remember a different
time compared to today's modern technology. And

353
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.359
you know, Aveley in Essex is
only I think something like thirty or forty

354
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.759
miles from London. It's not the
middle of nowhere. We're driving home and

355
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:03.559
they had this they had a almost
encounter sighting and a strange thing happened.

356
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.119
They went through a green mist as
they entered the village where they lived,

357
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:15.759
and the car seemed to bounce or
bump, and so day John's wife turned

358
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:21.400
to him and said, is everyone
here the radio malfunction in the car When

359
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.200
they got in, John had been
looking forward to watching a particular TV show

360
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.279
and it had finished in those days. If here in the UK the TV

361
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.279
finished at a particular time in the
evening, that was it. If you

362
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.319
missed it. It was finished gone, and you know, there was a

363
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:42.480
big period of missing time that they
could not account for. When they went

364
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:47.200
to sleep, they had these nightmares, these visions of what happened, and

365
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:52.559
it all spontaneously came back. It's
called the Ably case because of the location

366
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.519
it took. There's a lot more
to it. I'm trying to condense it.

367
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:03.119
Here's John and Sue remembered most of
what happened. They had had some

368
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:08.480
hypnosis later, but they've already remembered
most of the encounter. And I met

369
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.519
John, he would not let anyone
go near his children, and never has.

370
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:18.519
They've never spoken up, I think, to his credit. And one

371
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:23.039
of the things that sometimes happens with
a close encounter witness not all the time.

372
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:30.400
Sometimes they're things changed. I mean
John and Sue both became interested in

373
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.799
what we would term today green issues, environmental issues, which one of a

374
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:40.440
big thing here in those days.
John was a carpenter by nature, that's

375
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.279
what he did for a profession,
but he also became much more artistic.

376
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.039
Events when I met him many years
ago now, he was making the most

377
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:52.720
beautiful ornamental dolls houses, and he
put it right down to this encounter.

378
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.920
You know, his outlook, his
abilities, if you like, certainly his

379
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:02.440
artistic abilities changed the the results.
And it's you know, it was well

380
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:07.759
investigated, not by me, by
by colleagues and mine and I met John

381
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:12.599
and an interview with him at a
length. So it's a well known case,

382
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.960
but you know, probably just well
known in the UK rather than overseas.

383
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.680
And it's a fascinating event. And
you have some long and a long

384
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.359
conversation with John about it, and
it's it's you mentioned that at the beginning

385
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:29.160
of the show. I've written a
new book that's called Once Upon a Missing

386
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:35.799
Time. It's work of fiction,
and part of the the encounter is there.

387
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:37.759
It's you know, it is made
up of real cases. Part of

388
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:44.039
it is based on John and Sudet's
encounter way back in the late seventies in

389
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.799
Aveley in Essex, especially the part
with the green myst and that kind of

390
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:52.319
thing. And you know, absolutely
fascinating. It's interesting too that you mentioned

391
00:32:52.319 --> 00:33:00.200
the change in the art that this
gentleman did because the allegash abduction tonight teen

392
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:05.559
seventy six. Poor people who went
through that, they said that after their

393
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:12.039
experience they became they were already somewhat
artistic, but their art had changed also

394
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:17.000
absolutely. I mean again. There
was a young man I interviewed at length

395
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:23.440
several occasions in Wales at a place
called Petheli in the northwest of the country.

396
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:28.240
And I've called him Nigel Matthews.
That's not his real name, but

397
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:31.000
his first name is Nigel, and
he was only a young man at the

398
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:35.519
time. And Nigel was walking home
one night from a friend's house quite a

399
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:40.759
rural location. An upperhead in a
field is all light, and part of

400
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:45.160
him said I wanted to take a
look, but there was another part of

401
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.160
me said don't go anywhere near.
Anyway, he went and had a look

402
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:52.960
from a strange object in the field. He was approached from behind, somebody

403
00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:59.680
grabbed him. He remembers coming around
on this object. He was laying on

404
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:05.000
a table of some description, and
that these particular looking, fun peculiar looking

405
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.599
humanoids were there, and the Aigel
had a walkman with him, you know,

406
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:13.440
the old tape recorder, and they
took that from him and placed it

407
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.239
in this panel and said it was
the most bizarre thing that here he was

408
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:22.440
in this otherworldly environment with this rock
music blaring out. Anyway, after the

409
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:28.360
encounter. He managed to stagger home
and he lived with his mum. At

410
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:31.280
the time, his mother he had
no hypnosis. He told her everything that

411
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:37.199
happened, cut in a long story
short. When I interviewed him, I

412
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.599
think it was on the second or
third occasion, he admitted to me that

413
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.159
and he swore into secrecy. At
the time, Alejandro I had was not

414
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:53.840
to tell anyone. He became he
would write spontaneous poetry, and he had

415
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.840
no talent for it before, no
interest. And this is a gentleman,

416
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.599
a young man with long hair,
denim jacket, pretty much like I used

417
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:05.840
to be when I was the same
age. Liked his rock music, and

418
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.639
he was working in a local hotel
and said, sometimes for lift, I'll

419
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.199
just have to pick up a napkin
and the poetry will be in my head

420
00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:16.639
and I have to write it down. And again he put it all down

421
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:22.239
to the close encounter. He said
that whatever that was, this part,

422
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:28.079
this, this spontaneous poetry, it
was an artistic talent that he never had,

423
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.400
not even the slightest inkling, and
no interest in it. You know,

424
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.480
I like rock music, and whatever
you say about rock music with the

425
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:37.639
greatest respect, I don't think you'd
ever call it poetry, you know,

426
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:44.079
And that was just one of several
who had this. He also, you

427
00:35:44.119 --> 00:35:47.159
know, became aware of interest in
environmental issues and things of that nature.

428
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.559
So whether you know whether there's something
there, whether those things are telling us

429
00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:54.199
something, I don't know, but
it is something I've come across from time

430
00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:00.480
to time now when I think it's
interesting. Along with his artistic stuff,

431
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:08.320
is that doctor Leo Sprinkle had done
some research and psychological inventories years ago,

432
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:14.199
and he found that there was also
a change in their spiritual perspectives. In

433
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:17.880
fact, he found that which was
surprising to him, many of them had

434
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:27.800
much more they believed in reincarnation after
their experiences where they really hadn't thought of

435
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.519
it or had more traditional views beforehand. Have you noticed that also maybe changed

436
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:37.440
in their spiritual outlooks? Absolutely?
Absolutely. I mean, there was one

437
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:43.639
lady who lived near the town of
Northampton. Her name is Elsie Olkinson.

438
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:50.800
Somebody Elsie's no longer with us,
But not only did she become interested in

439
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:55.679
spiritual things, Elsie became a spiritual
healer. Wow. And again without any

440
00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:01.079
hesitation, she said, you know, a direct result of her encounter,

441
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:07.199
and Elsie was an educated lady.
She was married to a very high ranking

442
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:10.039
police officer. She was no one's
fool. She was a lovely, lovely

443
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.400
lady. I tutored a college course
on UFOs, believe it or not,

444
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:20.480
for a short while, and Elsie
was gracious enough to come and speak in

445
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:22.719
front of the students, to give
them, you know, the opportunity to

446
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:28.119
speak to someone who'd you know,
come face to face with the phenomenon.

447
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:37.559
And she said it was to her, the whole event was a spiritual encounter.

448
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.559
She called it the UFOs and and
what have you. But so what

449
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:47.119
I did on the back of that, I asked the small number of abductees

450
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.599
it's not a scientific test in any
way. I picked them at round them

451
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.159
and I said, I asked them
that very question. She was like,

452
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:01.559
what do you believe? What do
you think is the nature and origin of

453
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:06.239
your experience? You know, I'm
an outsider looking in I've not had these

454
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.800
experiences you have. And there were
a couple that said, definitely, definitely,

455
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:16.280
this was beings from another world.
However, to my surprise, and

456
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:20.159
thember of them said no, to
me, it was some kind of spiritual

457
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:23.280
experience. The majority, of course, you said, I don't know.

458
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:30.440
There was even one lady from the
Manchester area of northwest England, Linda.

459
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:35.280
She was with her daughter at the
time. They were in some fields behind

460
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.920
where she lived, literally and I
saw hers day picking wild flowers when they

461
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:45.840
saw this most bizarre object coming down
towards them. And she described when she

462
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:49.400
looked at this object, it was
all and she doesn't know really why she

463
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.119
describes it this way, it's the
best way, and she said it was

464
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:58.519
almost biblical. You know, I'd
never really come across that till I until

465
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:02.000
I spoke to Linda. And so
make of it what you will. And

466
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.199
so that you know, I've met
Leo as well, doctor Sprinkle, and

467
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:12.559
I think it's an area of research
Alejandro, that that has been neglected,

468
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:15.960
and I maybe you know, that's
something that others may concentrate on in the

469
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.159
future. It's not not just what
has happened to them, but what HAPs

470
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:23.039
to the people afterwards, right,
you know, we'll wait and see.

471
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:27.760
I agree with you, and I
want to talk more about that. But

472
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.599
but but first I want to talk
about you know, kind of your book

473
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:37.199
you write. The book is everything
that happened to the character and book based

474
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:43.239
off of real cases. Absolutely.
I mean I think there's only some of

475
00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:46.920
the minor characters in the book that
are not based on real people, and

476
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:53.199
that includes the UFO researchers and so
on. The actual encounter is made up

477
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:58.239
of three or four genuine, real
life close encounters here in the UK,

478
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:02.360
I mentioned John and Sue Day adrien
Essex is partly based on what happened to

479
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:07.679
them. And well, you know, someone said, well why, you

480
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:10.119
know, why why I write a
book of fiction about alien abductions? Well

481
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.199
a number of reasons really. Well, as we've just been discussing, when

482
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:19.599
when we when we talk about or
write about abductions, we tend to focus

483
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.840
on what happened to the individuals at
the time. You know, I was

484
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:25.800
driving so and so I saw this, you know this happened or remember this.

485
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.639
Very little is known about what happened
afterwards, how they cope, to

486
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:36.159
whom did they turn, to whom
did they tell? How did they deal

487
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:42.960
with the the experience? So and
also, if we're honest, there are

488
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:50.159
a number of the skeptical people out
there who would have us believe that the

489
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:54.519
abductees are all crazy or looking for
attention or trying to make money. Or

490
00:40:54.639 --> 00:41:00.679
are liars or deluded or whatever,
when in fact quite the opposite is true.

491
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:07.079
So one of the reasons for writing
a book of fiction was, in

492
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:14.960
my opinion, to put the abduction
experience in the correct lights. These are

493
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.679
normal people and they're not, you
know, crazy, They're about their everyday

494
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:24.920
task. Mind sentence around a couple, Alan and Pamela Morrison and their daughter.

495
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:30.760
She's a teacher in a local school, she's a social worker. They

496
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:34.519
have a teenage daughter. Her interests
you know, music, pop music and

497
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:39.679
boys and her friends. I set
it in nineteen ninety because it's a time

498
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:44.519
when again we had a lot of
reports here in the UK. I set

499
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:47.880
it in North Yorkshire again because we
had a lot of things in that particular

500
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:53.639
area, and a lot of the
book deals with how they cope. You

501
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:58.760
know, they first turned to a
family member. I mean again, you

502
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:02.480
know this is out of my experience
and interviewing people, and a lady doesn't

503
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:07.480
live too far from from me.
Jane had a number of encounters down the

504
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.760
years, and the first person she
turned to was her family and they just

505
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.079
were bemused by it all, you
know that, no disrespect. There were

506
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:21.320
just a normal, average family with
a normal job. What can I do?

507
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.480
So the next thing, Jane thought, well, I must be going

508
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:29.199
off my head, you know,
So she turned to her doctor. He

509
00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:34.679
prescribed the traquitizers, which they did
to all women of her age, and

510
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:38.159
in that particular time period she threw
loads in the bin because they didn't work.

511
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:46.360
And eventually, after a long period
of frustration, she found me and

512
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.039
turned to me, and you know, she was just grateful that I would

513
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:53.280
sit there and actually listen and not
past comments, not smirk, not laugh,

514
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:58.960
And you know, I'm still in
contact with her now. And this

515
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.559
is you know, after many,
many years. So you know, my

516
00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:06.880
book Once Upon a Missing Time tries
to deal with all this and to show

517
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:13.920
that whatever this phenomenon is, it
can happen anywhere, anytime, to anyone.

518
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:20.400
It's difficult to deal with, right, And you mentioned anywhere. I

519
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:23.440
mean a lot of people feel.
I guess that there's a core kind of

520
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:29.719
experience, that there are similarities in
the abduction experience for the most part that

521
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:35.960
people report, and those similarities are
similar here in the United States and out

522
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.480
there. Would you agree with that, and then how would you kind of

523
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:43.719
describe what is the core experience?
Absolutely? I mean again. There was

524
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:51.280
a gentleman from the United States,
Dr Thomas Bullard as Eddie Bullad. He

525
00:43:51.400 --> 00:44:00.000
conducted a study of hundreds of published
abduction accounts, and he broke the experience

526
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:05.320
down into its various components, and
they seem to fall on order. You

527
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:08.239
know, each case doesn't have all
the components. It may have some,

528
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:13.400
some may have so many, some
may have less. But nonetheless they seem

529
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:17.880
to follow the same ininverted Commas pattern. And that didn't matter where they were

530
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:22.159
reported, which country, by what
type of person, their age group,

531
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:28.079
their their ethnic background, their education, whatever, didn't seem to make any

532
00:44:28.119 --> 00:44:34.400
difference whatsoever. One of them,
of course, he termed doorway amnesia for

533
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.320
words to that effect. So they
see the UFO, they may even see

534
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.679
the beings outside of it, but
they have no recollection of how they get

535
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:45.639
on board this thing. And that
crops up time and time and time again.

536
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.440
So it's just what it always follows
the pattern. One of the other

537
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:54.920
things picked up by a colleague of
mine called Ken Phillips was the emotional content,

538
00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:00.280
and it can be different types of
emotions. He also goes back to

539
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:07.800
a study by and done by Alvin
Lawson and Alvin got some volunteers and put

540
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:14.800
them under hypnosis and got them to
invent a fictitious alien abduction scenario, which

541
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:17.840
was you know, quite illuminating.
But the one major thing that was missing

542
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:23.400
from it was this emotional content.
You know, it was just I am

543
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:27.519
a robot. I will tell you
this day. It was you know,

544
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:32.840
it was metronomic. There was no
kind of emotion whatsoever. But I mentioned

545
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:39.280
David Thomas in Perfeli, north West
Wales. Want to talk to David about

546
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:42.920
his job, boy, his rock
musical, his girlfriend. He was just

547
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:49.360
like any normal young man we'll talk
to about his experience. His whole manner

548
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:53.840
changed. The experience had terrified him, and you know you could see the

549
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:59.880
emotional content there when he spoke about
it. And the same with Alan Comfrey.

550
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.159
You know, Alan wasn't prying.
I don't think Alan Pixy Godfrey with

551
00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:07.079
frightened of anything or anybody. But
he talked about things that he could see.

552
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:09.559
There's the you know, he could
hear the clubs in his head trying

553
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:15.119
to figure it out. There was
that emotional content there and with the fictitious

554
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:19.239
ones, it's not there. So
it doesn't matter where you are in the

555
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.719
world, who you are, what
your background is. There is some kind

556
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:27.440
of commonality there. And again I
think it's still an area of study that

557
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.159
has, you know, needs needs, needs more work on it. When

558
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:35.239
you talk about the emotional content,
I guess maybe we could talk about some

559
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.639
of those emotions. So like I
think the obvious one is probably fear and

560
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:43.880
terror. Yeah, I mean,
I've come across a wide range of different

561
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:50.039
emotions. David definitely, David Thomas
was quite literally terrified. I mean,

562
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:53.320
David did not have any regressivef it
noticed. We remembered every second of his

563
00:46:53.480 --> 00:47:00.000
encounter, told his mom everything when
he got there. Now, the follow

564
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:02.400
it's quite a rural place where they
lived. His mud went to the local

565
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:08.119
library, found one UFO book,
and she found a mention of a UFO

566
00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:12.840
group in Oxford, which is a
long way from northwest Wales, probably not

567
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.320
a long way by American standards,
but in our little country it was.

568
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:19.400
Oh she might. Managed to find
a phone number for them and rang them

569
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:22.639
up, and they said, right, we'll get back to you and we'll

570
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:24.840
arrange to come and see you.
So the following night after his encounter,

571
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:30.480
Davy was so frightened she literally put
him in the back of the car drove

572
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.519
to Oxford. He now started to
snow heavily, but she still carried on

573
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.960
and arrived at this gentleman's house unannounced, and they come out and found Davy

574
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:43.320
cowering in the back of the car. Now, eventually David had to have

575
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:51.679
hypnotherapy to relieve himself of the nightmares
that this encounter had caused. And I

576
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:54.519
wrote a non fiction book, My
first ever book was called Without Consent,

577
00:47:55.519 --> 00:48:00.039
and it dealt with missing time and
abduction cases here in the UK on David's

578
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:05.280
in that book, and I sent
him a copy and you know, he

579
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:08.039
wrote back and thanked me for it. It was five years before he plopped

580
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:13.960
up the courage to read it.
It scared him so much. I you

581
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:16.960
know, I apologized to him later
because I asked him if we could visit

582
00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:22.559
the scene, the location of where
this happened, and we did, and

583
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.400
I have a photograph of David standing
by these trees with a gap in it,

584
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:29.679
and this gap in the trees looked
into the field where the object was.

585
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.599
And it's only when I had the
photographs developed He's actually stood there,

586
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:37.000
rigid with fear, and I didn't
realize that at the time, it was

587
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:39.519
quickly pulled the car or to take
a couple of pictures, and you know,

588
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:43.840
we were gone, and you know, and I apologize and putting him

589
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:46.280
through that lace, you know,
I was I was oblivious to that fact.

590
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:50.719
And so, yes, there is
that, there's you know, there's

591
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:55.000
but there's a whole range of emotions. But David was certainly terrified. What

592
00:48:55.199 --> 00:49:01.960
is maybe another common emotion that perhaps
you were not expecting. I think,

593
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:06.719
I don't know if you call it
an emotion, but I know a number

594
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:13.079
of abductees felt, I don't know
if you call it a need if you

595
00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:20.000
like, or a compassion to speak
out. You know, they didn't necessarily

596
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:24.480
know what had happened to them all. They weren't convinced that it was one

597
00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:30.400
theory or another. They just felt
that for some reason they had to go

598
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:35.599
public. They had to let other
people know about this experience. It was

599
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:40.000
important, and they also felt a
need or a compassion to speak to others

600
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:45.719
who had had similar experiences. And
as a result of that, one of

601
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:51.599
the first, if not the first
UFO witness support group was founded here in

602
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.639
the UK. I think it's still
going. And so there was that that

603
00:49:54.920 --> 00:50:00.840
compassion to do that, and people
like else Olkinsinoa mentioned from Northampton, and

604
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:05.679
she certainly did that faced quite a
bit of ridicule because it was only a

605
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:09.119
tiny tiny communities where she lived.
Everybody knew her, but she just felt

606
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:13.119
that that, you know, she
had to do it. There was a

607
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:15.400
some kind of compulsion to make her
do that. It wasn't for the money,

608
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.559
of the fame or anything like that, you know, because none of

609
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:24.960
that comes right, and so you
know, that seems to be an underlying

610
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:30.159
factor in some cases, not all
of them, but something drives them only

611
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:36.639
that they believe that it's important that
people know about these experiences, irrespective of

612
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:40.360
the stigma that comes with it,
and that happens time and time again.

613
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:45.960
That is really interesting that you say
that, because one of the things that

614
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:50.639
I wanted to ask about when we
were talking about the terror is post traumatic

615
00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:57.920
stress syndrome, which a lot of
people experience, of course with major trauma,

616
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:00.519
and I think I've seen that in
some of these people, and I

617
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:05.199
would I would guess that you might
have also. But one of the best

618
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.840
ways to treat that is talk therapy. It's people getting together in groups and

619
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:14.119
talking. So it's interesting that they
kind of automatically have this feeling to do

620
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:16.800
that. Absolutely. I mean again, another lady who was featured heavily in

621
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:22.119
my book Once Upon a Missing Time, and she was also a kind of

622
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.239
an unofficial consultant on it. I
mean, when I was writing things,

623
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:29.440
I would email us and just make
sure I've got this right. And her

624
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:35.400
name is called Rosalind Reynolds. Rosallyn's
encounter happened in nineteen eighty two, and

625
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:43.239
many years back, I used to
organize conferences and one of the conferences I

626
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:47.280
had, someone in the audience asked, you know, you know, we

627
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:51.199
talked about abductions. I said,
you know, I'd like to hear it

628
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.760
from the horse's mouth. Now.
Just by chance, Rosalind was in the

629
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:59.679
audience. She'd never spoken in public
about this before, to the rest of

630
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:02.760
mine, had never spoken about it
again. And I asked if she would

631
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.519
take the stage, and she did, and she spoke only for about half

632
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:12.480
an hour, and she told what
had happened to her. She took a

633
00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:16.440
few questions, and then in the
interval a lady approached me and she's,

634
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:21.679
as you know, Philippa, you
know, I'm I'm actually a trained psychiatric

635
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:24.960
nurse. That's what I do for
a living. And she's looking at that

636
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:29.079
lady, and I've spoken to her. She said, I think she's suffering

637
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:31.760
from post traumatic stress. She has
all the symptoms for it. We're trying

638
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:36.480
to recognize that. I think she
said she'd worked with people who've been in

639
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:39.679
conflict or you know, or victims
of crime or whatever, something along those

640
00:52:39.719 --> 00:52:44.119
lines, so you know, she
noticed it. She was a you know,

641
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.960
a trained professional. I just thought
Ronnie was a little bit nervous,

642
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:51.280
but you know, she's, no, it's not nervous. It has all

643
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:55.280
the hall marks of post traumatic stress. And you know, and you know

644
00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:59.519
fair enough, and like I said, with with with with the girl I

645
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:05.159
mentioned called Jane. She gone to
her family first and then the doctor and

646
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.480
with me, and when I met
her, all she wanted to do was

647
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:09.719
talk, you know, So I
just sat there and left it to it.

648
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:14.239
And she found that very therapeutic.
So whether she, you know,

649
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:17.199
was also suffering from something along those
lines, maybe, you know, I'm

650
00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:22.840
not a trained professional in that area, but I think it's certainly very it's

651
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:27.039
very good for them to speak to
others, and you know, people like

652
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:32.960
myself as well. At least we'll
listen, right and getting to the book.

653
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:36.559
By the way, I want to
mention that I love the title Went

654
00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:39.599
Upon a Missing Time. It's very
clever and I love I think it's really

655
00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:45.639
cool. But with the book,
do you feel that you were able to,

656
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:52.119
as a novel or nonfiction maybe even
get into some areas or at least

657
00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:55.800
express some aspects of the abduction phenomena
you wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

658
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:00.599
I think so, you know,
you know, if you go to any

659
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:06.679
of the conferences or read the magazines, which you know, I encourage people

660
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:09.519
to do exactly that. When you
read about a close encounter, you'll read

661
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:14.400
it. You know, mister Smith
was you know, walking his dog and

662
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:16.880
he saw this, this happened,
and that's about you know, and you

663
00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:21.639
know, you'll go through all the
nitty gritty of what he encountered, what

664
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:25.880
he remembered, maybe hypnosis or not
whatever. You may even mention other cases

665
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:31.440
that had similar descriptions and so forth. But we forget when we do that

666
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:35.280
that we're dealing with a you know, a human being here, a person

667
00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:42.119
who has a life, has family, feelings, emotions, a job mate,

668
00:54:42.159 --> 00:54:45.400
you know, probably you know,
so what happens. You know what

669
00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:50.920
happens to them? And that's what
I tried to highlight in the books.

670
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:55.320
You know, yes they have this
bizarre encounter. What happens to them afterwards?

671
00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:58.840
You know? Who did they turn
to? How do they as a

672
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:02.000
couple, because it's but there's two
of them. You know, it's stressful

673
00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:06.519
enough when you when you're married at
times, you know, and you've got

674
00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:09.719
a family, it can be very
stressful, and you're working and then something

675
00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:13.719
like this happens. How do you
cope? What do you do? Who

676
00:55:13.719 --> 00:55:15.360
do you turn to? Who can
you trust? Who can you not trust?

677
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:20.519
You know what would happen if you
went public with it? And you

678
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:24.840
know what happens when they do go
public? By accident? And again,

679
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:30.159
as I mentioned some of the skeptics, the most vocal of which used to

680
00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:34.480
be Philip Class Again Philip's no longer
with us, but when he couldn't figure

681
00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:37.480
out a particular incident, it would
just call them all higher as simple as

682
00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:40.920
that will I didn't I say,
you know, there may be one or

683
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:46.760
two in there somewhere that you know
are not the genuine article that happens in

684
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:52.920
all walks of life. But you
know, in my research, I haven't

685
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:57.960
come across that very often. These
are genuine people with a genuine puzzle to

686
00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:00.760
be answered and not lying. They're
not looking for publicity. I mean,

687
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:05.440
I've had a lady just last week
contact me. She only lives local to

688
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:09.440
where I am, and she her
encounters started when she was four year old

689
00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:15.159
and lasted until she was thirty years
old. She's never told anyone. Wow,

690
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:17.840
I'm the first person. And all
I did was listen. I would

691
00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:22.760
cast any comments. I haven't made
any comparisons or made any you know,

692
00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:27.800
silly statements. I've just listened,
and you know, and I find that,

693
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:30.960
you know, very reassuring. And
but she's never same age as me

694
00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:36.760
or thereabouts, and she's never told
a soul. She's kept this to herself

695
00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:42.000
for all these years. And you
know, so I've tried to put the

696
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:45.360
abductee and the experience and what I
think is the correct life as I put

697
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:49.199
in the in the forward. If
you're looking for answers to the to the

698
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:52.639
alien abduction phenomena, this is not
the book to read. You know.

699
00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:58.920
It showed you how it happens,
how it can happen, to whom it

700
00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:01.880
happens, how in my experience,
some of them have dealt with it.

701
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:05.039
They all deal with it different.
Of course, this is, you know,

702
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:08.440
is one way of it. It's
one scenario. There's a UFO researcher

703
00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:12.159
in it. It happens to be
called Philip, and people think that's based

704
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:15.679
on me. It is not based
on a two colleagues of mine sort of

705
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:22.480
amalgamated together. So you know,
it is based on real people. These

706
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:25.039
are their experiences. There is a
little bit of artistic license he had to

707
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:28.760
be put in there. I have
to be honest. It is a normal

708
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:32.400
after all. But the bulk of
it is made up from my research,

709
00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:37.760
Mike, my talking to people,
my traveled I don't know how many miles

710
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:43.000
you know doing this work. Spent
countless hours, and you know, I

711
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:45.320
just wanted to put it in the
paint, paint the correct picture of Alejandro,

712
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:49.119
put it in the right in the
right format, and I think,

713
00:57:50.360 --> 00:57:52.280
you know, one of the ways
of doing it. I'm not saying it's

714
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:54.280
the best way or the only way. I thought was a work of fiction.

715
00:57:54.880 --> 00:58:00.599
And you know, I'm pleased with
the result. I think, you

716
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:05.000
know, when you say no answers, it's honest, because really we don't

717
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.880
have a whole lot of answers,
which makes it kind of difficult for these

718
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:15.119
people because when it comes to resolution
or having some feeling of closure, there

719
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:19.639
really isn't much there to do for
them that way. Absolutely not. I

720
00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:22.280
mean again, you know, I
asked the small group of abductees what they

721
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:27.440
thought was behind it, and they
all differed pretty much. The young man

722
00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:29.639
David I mentioned, he said,
well, it must have been the Russians.

723
00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:31.519
Philip, he didn't really believe that, but it was his way of

724
00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:36.679
rationalizing it. It was a way
of putting that in a pigeon hole and

725
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:39.239
putting it behind him. He felt
comfortable by you know, this was a

726
00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:43.840
bad thing that happened to him.
You know, the bad people at the

727
00:58:43.880 --> 00:58:45.880
time were the Soviets. You know, there was all the threat from the

728
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:51.599
Soviet bloc and we're all on standby
or whatever, so you know, it

729
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:54.159
didn't make sense to him, but
it was a way of him dealing with

730
00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:57.280
it. Call it. You know, it must have been the Russians.

731
00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:00.920
Didn't believe that in a thousand years, but it was his way I rationalize

732
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:04.280
it. And I spoke to abductees
who tell you, I think it was

733
00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:07.840
this and I think that if that's
what they're happy with, who am I

734
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:10.840
to say different? And know that, you know, when I entered this

735
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:15.599
subject, I entered it for a
very personal reason, and that was to

736
00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:21.320
find answers for me. You know, some people said, was it a

737
00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:22.719
quest? Was it this? Now? I don't think it's anything as grand

738
00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:27.599
as that. I was always the
type of young man who saw a button

739
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:29.719
that says, don't press, I
would want to press it to find out

740
00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:34.480
what happened. And the saying was
with the UFO phenomena. And I always

741
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.519
said, you know, down the
years, I've had many of my questions

742
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:40.920
answered, but not all of them
yet. And when the day comes that

743
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:45.719
I've had all the questions answered and
I'm satisfied with that. If I believe

744
00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:50.320
that the answer to the UFO phenomenon
is X, and nobody else in the

745
00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:52.239
world agrees with me, well I
don't really care, because I didn't really

746
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:57.480
enter into it for any everyone else. You know, I haven't got to

747
00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:00.199
that conclusion yet. I think there's
still a lot of work to do,

748
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:04.039
and certainly in this field as well, and the personal as we're talking about,

749
01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:08.519
you know, doctor Leo Sprinkle and
others I think there's still a lot

750
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:13.840
of works to be done. We
tend to concentrate on what the people tell

751
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:19.400
us about what happened, but not
what happened afterwards or about the individuals themselves,

752
01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:22.599
you know. And I think it's
an area of research that could be

753
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:28.480
quite fruitful. Right. Do you
think there's any physical evidence that could possibly

754
01:00:28.519 --> 01:00:34.480
be extracted from these experiences? Well, there's certainly a physical stimulus or stimuli.

755
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:38.360
There's something that sparks it tough,
and there's many arguments and discussions as

756
01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:43.559
to what that may or may not
be. But regarding the physicality of the

757
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.840
subject. When I spoke to John
Day, John was with his wife sueing

758
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:52.800
Aveley in Essex. I asked him
that very same question, John, you

759
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:59.159
know, was this a real physical
encounter? You know? And it's a

760
01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:01.719
statement he made that has always stuck
with me, and I'm not sure I

761
01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:07.280
understand it even now. And he
said, Philip, not only me as

762
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:13.400
a person, but we as a
species do not have the ability to describe

763
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:19.519
what these experiences are. He said, But I'll give you an example.

764
01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:22.119
This is the best way I can
describe it. If you go to a

765
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:25.400
movie set, you can look at
it. You can see it. They

766
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:29.440
touch it and knock on it and
it'll go, you know, not knock.

767
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:32.159
But if you look behind it,
it's all an illusion. M hm.

768
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:37.400
That's how he described it. And
then some years later one of the

769
01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:44.960
conferences I hosted, our keynote speaker
was Wickly Strieber, and after his presentation,

770
01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:47.920
someone in the audience asked him a
similar type of question. And again,

771
01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:51.119
it's just a phrase. He may
have changed his mind since then.

772
01:01:51.159 --> 01:01:52.519
This is a few years ago.
It's a phrase that always stuck with me,

773
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:58.119
and it came to what we know
about the subject. What Weakley said

774
01:01:58.159 --> 01:02:02.400
is we're learning to ask better of
questions. Now I interpreted that, you

775
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:06.480
know, we've asked certain questions,
we're finding information, but we're still a

776
01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:09.079
long way to go. We're learning
to ask better questions. And for me

777
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:14.280
personally, I think that's still a
very relevant statement today. Right. Yeah,

778
01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:20.079
I've heard that too, and I
definitely makes you thinking it's a good

779
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:22.639
thing. I mean, it means
that we're learning and there's there's still much

780
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:28.159
more to learn. Absolutely. I
mean, you know, if you look

781
01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:31.840
at any area of research outside of
youuthology, some of it took centuries.

782
01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:37.760
You know and upology to me is
still only in its infancy. Who knows?

783
01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:39.599
And if you again, if you're
a study of the subject as a

784
01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:43.559
whole, if you look, you
know where it began in nineteen forty seven

785
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:47.320
with Kenneth Hanelds. We'll take that
as a point of origin, and you

786
01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:51.960
look at where the subject is now. It is very different to those early

787
01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:57.320
days that you know, the subject
has evolved down the decades and it's continuing

788
01:02:57.400 --> 01:03:00.360
to evolve. So you know,
I'm fifty five years of age now,

789
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:07.599
God willing, I'll live another few
decades. It'll be interesting to see at

790
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.880
that point in time where you know
how the phenomenon and the way it's reported

791
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:15.800
and the types of things that come
our way have changed, have evolved if

792
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:20.280
you like, because it's certainly changed
a lot from Kenneth Arnold's day. And

793
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:23.159
I guess my final question will be, because we're running low on time series,

794
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:28.920
is the implant phenomena? I mean, how do you feel do you

795
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:35.679
have you found implants out there?
Do you believe that to be a credible

796
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:40.159
kind of physical piece to all of
this? Well, again, how you

797
01:03:40.199 --> 01:03:43.440
know, we talk about the subject
being in its infancy, you know,

798
01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:47.079
the aspects within the subject, you
know, are still in the womb,

799
01:03:47.159 --> 01:03:52.280
let alone in its infancy. Right, that's this area of implants. The

800
01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:55.159
main proponents of it have been doctor
Rogerlere and general Simms. Of course,

801
01:03:55.159 --> 01:04:00.480
in the United States. I have
to be honest hand on how it's not

802
01:04:00.639 --> 01:04:05.239
something we've come across here in the
UK to any great degree. People have

803
01:04:05.400 --> 01:04:10.199
made certain claims, but it's different
here. You know, our medical system

804
01:04:10.239 --> 01:04:13.960
is different here to the UK.
You cannot walk in a place and pay

805
01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:16.639
I don't know, fifty dollars and
have an X ray for example. You

806
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:21.320
can't do that, you know.
So some of these people maybe be genuine,

807
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:26.199
but trying to authenticate that is a
very difficult matter. But again,

808
01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:30.280
just recently I had a contact from
a lady who said, you know,

809
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:33.519
I believe my my my friend has
an implant. She lived a long way

810
01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:38.000
from where I do, so put
her in touch with somebody much much closer

811
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:42.800
to home, and I've left them
to it in that respect, someone who

812
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.719
can help her sort of locally.
So you know, you know that that's

813
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:50.920
even before it's sympancy. You know, I've met Dr Delear several times and

814
01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:56.440
Geryl Simms and they are sincere in
their work. And again it's when we

815
01:04:56.519 --> 01:05:00.599
talked about the subject evolving. If
you go back to the to the early

816
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:05.679
abduction cases around about Betting, Barney
Hill, Time and others, you know,

817
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:12.400
im plants never existed. You know, there was never any mention of

818
01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:16.119
it or any any indication of it
anywhere in the world. And it's it's

819
01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:20.119
a relatively new aspect of the whole
subject matter. And again it's you know,

820
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:24.880
you know, I'm still in touch
with with doctor Lear and Deryl.

821
01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:29.519
It's something I keep an eye on. It's not something I've come a lot,

822
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:32.000
come across a lot, you know, personally in my area of research.

823
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:38.639
And again, it will be interesting
to see how that develops. Well,

824
01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:41.639
we are out of time. Thank
you so much for being on the

825
01:05:41.679 --> 01:05:47.000
show. This conversation has been fascinating
and it's been a great pleasure. Your

826
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:53.239
website is beyond Risweld dot com.
Right, that's correct, And the new

827
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:57.079
book is Once Upon a Missing Time, And I hope the listeners enjoy if

828
01:05:57.119 --> 01:06:01.639
they obtain a copy. Yeah,
definitely, because I I think it's great

829
01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:06.760
research that you've done. It encompasses, you know, decades of work in

830
01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:12.400
this field, and as you've shown
on this interview, you just are a

831
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:16.000
wealth of information. Well, thank
you very much. Thank you so much,

832
01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:19.400
and you have a great resk of
your day. It's already evening out

833
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:24.320
there. It's early morning here,
it is, indeed, and it's been

834
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:28.199
a great pleasure speaking to you.
Thank you all right. Thank you to

835
01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:32.679
mister Mantle for joining us today.
I love talking to him. When an

836
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:39.039
interesting talk and some really interesting UK
cases, you know, stuff that I

837
01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:43.280
don't hear about much, and probably
some of you haven't either, so very

838
01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:46.079
much appreciated. I recommend that everybody
go pick up his book, Once Upon

839
01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:53.239
a Missing Time and actually was printed
by Richard Dolan and Richard Dolan's Press.

840
01:06:53.280 --> 01:07:00.440
We didn't even mention that before.
But thank you for joining us once again.

841
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:06.639
I will be back next week.
No more secret missions at least as

842
01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:13.800
far as I know. And of
course check out on our YouTube are spacing

843
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:17.519
out where they talk about more news, and then also the website where we've

844
01:07:17.559 --> 01:07:23.960
got the news all the time every
day, Openminds dot Tv. Check us

845
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:29.320
out on Twitter, check us out
on Facebook, and also check out some

846
01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:31.920
of the other videos that we've been
doing. We got We're talking earlier about

847
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:35.960
Area fifty one and John Greenwald,
we actually interviewed him, so that's a

848
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:42.119
lot of fun. And we interviewed
the gentleman at the National Atomic Museum in

849
01:07:42.199 --> 01:07:45.880
Las Vegas, who has an Area
fifty one display there, So you have

850
01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:50.119
to check that out if you're sober
in Vegas. If not, just don't

851
01:07:50.159 --> 01:07:55.599
go there and fall all over to
displays or throw up in the museum or

852
01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:59.239
anything. So stay away if you're
two loaded, but maybe if you're hungover

853
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:01.880
and you want something to do in
the morning. But thank you for joining

854
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:04.920
us. I also want to thank
the people who make the music because I

855
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:09.880
appreciate it so much. Our opening
music made by Caleb Hanks, and our

856
01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:15.000
close minute music made by two Earth
Minutes. Those guys rock. Literally,

857
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:17.960
we're gonna hear him rock in a
second. Otherwise, adio smooth, chuck

858
01:08:18.039 --> 01:09:00.199
chos, and we'll talk to you
next week. People s