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Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old
Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This

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is your host, Adam Graham.
If you have a comment, email it

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to me Box thirteen at Great Detectives
dot net. Follow us on Twitter at

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Radio Detectives, and check us out
on Instagram, Instagram, dot com,

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00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:53,079
slash Great Detectives. If you're enjoying
the podcast, please follow us using your

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00:00:53,240 --> 00:01:00,280
favorite podcast software. Well, this
is a special Old Time Radio Cons episode

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and we have a guest with us, Jim Grinstead from Tennessee. Jim,

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thanks for joining us today. Oh
it's a pleasure to be here and I'm

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looking forward to talking about these two
radio shows. They're great. Well,

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thanks so much. Jim spent forty
years as a journalist and is now the

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host of these Scams and Cons podcast. We met in January at podcast and

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I saw a great opportunity for a
crossover. I'm not a specialist or an

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expert in most of these sort of
crimes that are great Detectives investigate, but

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I've researched a bit and know how
to track down information. But getting perspective

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from someone who's got quite a bit
of knowledge in scams would be really insightful.

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Plus, it's also a nice way
to warm up for doing Racket Squad

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on our Video Theater podcast later on
this month. So we'll be bringing you

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two scam related old time radio detective
programs and we'll chat about them and also

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talk about the Scams and Cons podcast. The first episode we're bringing you is

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one of my favorite series that we
only have a few episodes of. It's

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Easy Money, nineteen fifty four series
originating in New York and starring Larry Haynes.

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One interesting fact that I didn't learn
about at the time we were doing

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it the first time is that this
was actually a reboot of an old Chicago

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series. I discovered this while researching
the career of Bob Bailey that Easy Money,

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featuring the character of Mike Trent,
was actually created for Chicago Radio in

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the early forties. Bailey didn't play
the lead, but he had a recurring

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guest part in the series. At
any rate. Here from that New York

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series from November fourteenth, nineteen fifty
four is the episode of Easy Money Galloping

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Ivories. The National Broadcasting Company presents
another program in a new series exposing the

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inside secrets of gamblers, racketeers,
and con men. It's called easy money.

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Easy money. There's no such thing
as easy money. Mike Trent,

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the ex magician turned rackets detective,
is an expert on easy money schemes,

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gyps, frauds, and swindles.
Tonight he blows the lid off of one

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of the vicious gambling rackets that's being
worked in this country year after years.

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This one's called galloping ivories, and
here's Mike print to tell you about it.

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Thank you, Bill. The good
professional gamblers are so used to trimming

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their victims that sometimes they get impatient. They see a chance for a fast

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cleanup, and they jump at it, especially if they feel they've got a

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soft touch for their prey. My
story tonight is about a big operator got

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mixed up with some kids. It
came mighty close to reckon their lives.

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It opens in the back room of
one of the suburban gambling clubs, where

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the boss's right hand man had just
brought in his report of the night's receipts.

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Nice night, Sophie, that's the
biggest take we've had in three weeks.

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Yeah, only look, Gunner given
this kid, junior Alvin Sky high

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credit. That don't seem so sharp. No, how much did he lose

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tonight? Eight hundred and twenty bucks. All we got is this little piece

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of paper eight twenty eh that makes
seven thousand, one hundred and sixty dollars

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all together. Yeah, I'll take
all that kind of paper I can get,

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Gunner. How you gonna collect his? Old man said the last time

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he settled up, he wasn't paying
any more. Crap game, that's for

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Junior. I know, old man
Alvin ain't the kind of guy we will

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stand for. Muscles. Don't worry. I'm not planning to put any heat

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on Junior's daddy. You I don't
get it. That's fine, Sophie.

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If you don't get it, Junior
won't either. You and young a wonner

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about on a par on brain.
Look, boss, you don't need to

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get next. Don't listen, Sophie. I'd like to run that. Junior.

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L want to count up to about
fifteen thousand dollars? You mean fast

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fast? Give the kid a break, let him double up, get him

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to shoot the works trying to get
eaten. You're gonna let him get even

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now? What do you think the
minute the bell gets up to fifteen?

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Grand teley kid? I want to
see him. Well, if you say

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so, I do say so,
and don't scare him. Be nice to

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it. I should be nice to
a dumb phony. You owes us all

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that door or what? So?
I'm playing for big steak Soapy. Fifteen

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thousand dollars is just my first roll. Okay, Gnner, you're gonna roll

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like that. Be sure you're throwing
your own dice, Soapie. When I

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gamble, I never take chances.
Well, mister Irwin, I haven't seen

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you for a long time, have
it chare? Thanks? Your dice man

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said that you wanted to see me, Gunner. If it's about money,

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money, what's that? Your credit's
always good for a few hundred dollars my

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gambling club Jr. Thanks. I
know your father gives you a nice allowance,

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and I know you're the kind of
fellow who thinks a gambling dead is

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important. You're a gentleman. Thanks
again. For dollars doesn't mean any more

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to you than it does to me. If you don't have it, I

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know you will get it. I've
been having a lousy run of luck lately,

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Gunner, but it's bound to change
sooner or later. I never worry

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much about gambling low. That's one
of the things I like about you,

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Junr. Wow, but you can
run up a bill of fifteen hundred dollars

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without batting an eyelash. Yeah.
Sure, you're a natural gambler, A

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smart kind of a gambler. Why
I haven't even checked on your account?

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Fine, by the way, Jr. How does your account stand? Why

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I've been having rotten luck, Gunter? Well that's what you told me.

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Wow, I'll rotten. I owe
you fifteen thousand dollars fifteen that's an awful

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lot of money, Junieah, I'm
a little surprised. I'll pay off.

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Don't you worry. I never worry
about anybody paying off. Let's uh face

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facts. Where will you get fifteen
thousand dollars? Wait, I'll get it

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where I'll borrow it. You couldn't
borrow fifteen bucks? Well it'll take a

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few days, of course. Bracker
up your lips more. When you're whistling

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the dark kid, I give you
six months. You couldn't raise the money

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anyway short of killing your old man. You've been playing me for a sap

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and I'm getting sore. You said
I could have all the credit I wanted.

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You let me want shut up the
anything. I hate it to a

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whiny loser. I'm not whiny.
You keept right on tumbling up until you

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found yourself on a spot. I'm
not in a spot. Oh no,

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well guess again, jun, Yeah, you're in a real spot. What

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do you mean I run this gambling
club to make money. Maybe that never

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occurred to you. If I let
one looser welch on me get by without

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paying, I quit making money.
I said I'd pay. I have a

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couple of pretty fair ways to collect, kid collect or else you wouldn't.

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Oh, don't lay any odds in
that one kid. And you're in a

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place like mine, you'd be surprised. What you dad? What do you

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want me to do? Well,
now you're talking sense, Well, you

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run around with a pretty speedy bunch
of kids. You want me to steer

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some of my friends to your club. I wouldn't have them cluttering up the

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place, but I'd like to meet
a few of them outside. What do

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you mean, from what I read
in the papers, you're quite a party

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boy. Well, well, I
like parties too. I'd like to be

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invited to a few parties of yours. I don't get it. You and

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I are going to be partners,
Junior. We're gonna palle around together.

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You introduce me as a friend who's
just come to town. We start a

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few little five dollars crap games.
I still don't get the idea. You

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can't make up fifteen thousand dollars in
a five dollar game? Did you ever

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see a five dollar crap game?
Stay in that class. You started playing

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here with dollar chips. You owe
me fifteen grand, get me the suckers.

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I'll get your fifteen thousand back and
a lot more. Besides, I

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couldn't do that to my friends.
Oh no, I'll bet you could,

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Junior. And what's more, I
bet you will. I'll bet you two

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to one. I want to take
me? No, I guess not.

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It looks like they're your dice.
So Gorman was of your party. That's

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the funny part of it, mister
Trenty was. Everybody liked him, and

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he didn't even suggest a crap game. I suppose you did, yes when

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he gave me the high sign.
And I'll bet Gunner Gorman was lucky,

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wasn't he? Well? Not at
first? Oh no, no, not

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while you were shooting for five dollars
A roll. I suppose not. The

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game couldn't have been crooked, mister
Trent. They were my dice. But

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Gorman knows something about the game.
I don't know how much did he win

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five thousand dollars? He said it'd
cut my loss to twelve five hundred because

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we're partners, and I get credit
for twenty five hundred. He's getting a

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friend's a chance to get the money
back, of course. Oh yes,

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he put on a good act like
he was embarrassed at taking their money.

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Sounds like a very clever operator.
He's taking a hotel room and the rest

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of the crowd think he's just in
town for a few days. He's throwing

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a party at the hotel tonight to
give them a chance to get even.

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Well, just where does this concern
me? Well? I may be a

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heel. Everybody seems to think so, even Gorman. At least. I've

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been a prize sap. But I'm
darned if I'll double cross my friends.

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You've already done that, haven't you. Well I was scared, I guess,

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and there didn't seem to be anything
else to do until I saw Gunner

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Gorman take their money because they trusted
me. Well, what do you expect

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me to do about it. Well, I may be dumb, but I

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don't think Gorman's on the level.
If he is, I'll go to Dad

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and take my medicine, whatever it
is. But if he isn't playing fair,

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I'd like to catch him. From
what you've told me about him.

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Gorman will be rough if he finds
that you're double crossing him, as well

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as everybody else. I guess I
had that coming to me. All right,

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Well, it's nothing to watch your
laugh coming up. Gorman discovers you're

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trying to trap him. I thought
it was your business to catch crook at

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gambler's racketeers. Oh it is,
it is. But there's one type of

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gambler I dislike almost as much as
the crooks, and you're that type.

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Me. True people will get a
big thrill out of hobnobbing with dirty,

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cheating criminals until their charming friends take
them and then come crying for help.

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But I'm not crying for myself.
I can't let him rob my friends on

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my safe. I don't even know
that the man's a crook. He wouldn't

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need to be, you know,
to win, so surely and certainly,

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Oh, Gorman, knows the dice
ods backward and forward. He knows his

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chances on every roll of the dice. He could play percentages and win the

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sooner or later, and the most
honest game in the world. He'd clean

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them out because dice is his business, and he knows his business. Went

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five thousand dollars in one little look. There's no rougher, tougher, faster

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form of gambling ever been invented.
One flop of the dice, he can

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make more money than a whole evening
of poker. Five thousand dollars would make

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me think Gorman was holding back one
of my best friends, Marge. Terrence

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lost fifteen hundred of it. That
makes me feel worse than anything else.

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She well, I'm sort of crazy
in it. Wait a minute, give

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me There were girls in this dice
game and will be in the next one.

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Yes, mister trend, that's why
i'd appreciate your help. Well,

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I won't take the case to help
you with your friends. You all need

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a good spanking when you need help. But you will take the case.

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00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,240
Yeah, I'm one condition. What's
that. It's understood. I'm doing it

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strictly to put Gorman in his place. There's nothing swell about it. You

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have a revolver Gosh, no,
i'd be scared to death. Why you're

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going to be scared because you'll be
carrying one, but why you might need

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it. You've crossed up your dad
and he's taken it. You've crossed up

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your friends. They don't know it. They wouldn't do much about it if

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they did. But if Gonna Gorman
ever friends, you're double crossing him.

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You think he'd get tough. Well, I think there's undoubtedly a very good

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reason for his nickname being Gonna.
I don't know why you're feeling so big

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about winning five grand at a party. The joint does better than that most

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any night were you're going to meet
some nice people at the party, Sopie.

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Me listen, God, I hadn't
I told you, Sophie, you're

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gonna be my butler this evening?
Me cotton praise the sandwiches around. Look,

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bus I stood for a lot,
but I want it's a chance to

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see the elite a play, Sophie. I suppose you want me to be

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loaded down with fake dice, like
a old copy of the Police Cascente.

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Oh, don't be naive, Sophie, don't be h We won't use odd

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dice. You kidding, will bring
their own dice. These are respectable people,

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Sophie. I never see the guy
so respectable. I trust his dice.

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You gotta be sure of win an
injury. Oh when don't you worry

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your little brain about that? You
ain't no dice, mccannics. I don't

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00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,960
have to be not with a thick
pile rug on the floor of our hotel

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00:14:07,039 --> 00:14:13,120
suite and with a good thick pad
beneath it. Huh, listen, Gunny,

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00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,639
you wouldn't give him your blanket roll? No, why not? You

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couldn't get away with any where.
Crap shooter in the country doesn't know about

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00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,600
the soft roll. Not dealing with
crap shooters, Soaphie, I'm playing with

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wealthy no goods who want to thrill. I have so much money. The

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00:14:26,919 --> 00:14:31,039
only kind they'll show any interest in
is easy money. I'll be disappointed if

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I don't win fifty thousand dollars tonight. They'll come back and back. This

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00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,360
is just a start. You'll have
to give Junior album half the profits,

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won't you. Oh you need a
head cleaning, Sophie. Ah to tonight.

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My partnership with Junior is dissolved.
Well can you do that? He

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00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,879
might squawk. He wouldn't. There
he lets these SAPs know anything. They'll

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00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:54,919
find out he was working with May
helping play them for suckers. You think

203
00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:58,399
he'd do that. We'd be coming
around here with the sun still out.

204
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:05,960
We'll get the door find out.
Oh hell, lord, Johnnie, hi

205
00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:09,519
gunna say? I thought i'd better
warn you there may be trouble tonight.

206
00:15:09,559 --> 00:15:13,039
Oh ah, listen, bright boy, there's any trouble, you know who'll

207
00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:16,840
wind up with it, don't you? I Yeah, that's why I thought

208
00:15:16,879 --> 00:15:20,480
I should tell you. All right, what's up? You remember Marge Terence,

209
00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:22,960
the girl lost so much money?
How could I forget her? Well,

210
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,759
her brother found out about it,
and he's kind of a hot head.

211
00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:28,720
You don't say, well, what
about her brother? Well, he

212
00:15:28,759 --> 00:15:31,759
blames me for letting Marge lose so
much money, and he threatened me.

213
00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:35,879
Threatened. Yeah, how he said, unless I brought him to your party

214
00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:37,879
tonight, he beat me up.
He wants a chance to win that money

215
00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:41,840
back for Marge. Man, just
when you get to thinking Christmas is five

216
00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:46,600
or six weeks away, here comes
Santa Claus. Don't be too sure,

217
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,200
Tim Terrence has a reputation for being
awfully lucky. Oh, I like him

218
00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:54,480
lucky. The rest of the crowd's
going to the theater just as they'd plan

219
00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:58,559
and then dropping in here afterwards.
But Marge's brother, Tim's his name.

220
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:03,360
He wanted to come up here earlier
with margin me just can't wait, mister

221
00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:06,480
Gorman. I I know you think
you're pretty hot with the dice, but

222
00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:11,320
I'm warning you. Tim Terrence is
plenty lucky. Well, maybe his luck'st

223
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,720
for a change. Bring him around. The earlier the better. I don't

224
00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:18,879
say I didn't warn you. I
won't you. Yeah, I won't say

225
00:16:18,879 --> 00:16:33,240
a thing except thanks. Oh,
mister Gorman, I think you're butler or

226
00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:37,159
ballet or whatever. He is is
a character in the world. Did you

227
00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:41,279
ever find him? I picked him
up in a rough and rugged gambling joant,

228
00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:45,279
Miss Terrence. He's a real authentic
type and such a wonderful name.

229
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,360
Sophie, all right, cut it
off. I haven't met mister Gorman yet.

230
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,360
Oh, pardon me. This is
Marge's brother, Gunner Tim Terrence.

231
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,480
Ho. Do you know you folks
are a little early? Yeah, your

232
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,679
march told me how you took her
money last night. Didn't have very good

233
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,200
line. Sure it was lucky,
Timmy, be nice now. I don't

234
00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:07,920
like cracks like that, Tarran,
Well, I don't like having my sister

235
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,079
Marge lose fifteen hundred dollars either.
Oh, tim be yourself. I can

236
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,039
afford you. He doesn't know a
thing about the game. Shooting craps with

237
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:18,559
hers like taking pennies out of a
baby's piggy luck, Terrence, I didn't

238
00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:22,559
ask her into the game. The
game wasn't even my idea. She lost

239
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,559
money doesn't mean anything to me.
I'm giving her every chance the world to

240
00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:29,880
get it back. You better be
careful about your insinuations. Well you sound

241
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,559
very noble, mister Gloman. Yeah, you're a great guy, all right,

242
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:34,720
taking money away from a girl who
doesn't even know what the game is

243
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,359
all about. There's some boss you
want me to give this bird of brams.

244
00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:44,160
I stay out of this, Sophie. I suppose you're quite a crap

245
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,759
shure to yourself, mister Terrence.
You bet, I am. Oh,

246
00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:52,319
he's simply wonderful. He's won money
from real professionals. You don't say he

247
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,480
talks to the dice. He says
the craziest things about fever and picatur and

248
00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:02,000
new shoes, and go ahead to
me tell them some of the things I

249
00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:07,400
think I've heard him. Lady,
Eh, you're a real hot chop crop

250
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,640
shooter. Had enough to cool you
off, and you need to be taught

251
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:11,880
a lesson. You think you could
do it? Huh? You bet I

252
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,119
can. I just as soon take
your money as your sister. I just

253
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,759
bet you would. Well, it
looks to me like there's only one way

254
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:21,240
to settle this. Oh yeah,
sure, with the dice, you and

255
00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:22,720
Tim, But I want to play
too. You stay out of this much.

256
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,799
I'm gonna get Gorman a lesson he
needs. I'm not in the habit

257
00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:30,039
of carrying dice around with me.
It just happens. I got some in

258
00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:34,279
my pocket bus here. I'll just
take a look at those. If you

259
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,960
don't mind, Oh sure, go
right ahead, look him over all.

260
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,720
You like you think I'm a crack
Huh. I'm reserving my opinion. Give

261
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:45,799
him the sincred test if you want
to go ahead. The sinker test.

262
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:51,039
Isn't the terminology of this game fascinating? I love it? What does it

263
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,839
mean? The sacred test means,
lady, that you drop the dice in

264
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,839
a tall glass of water. Let
him sink to the bottom. I can't

265
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,559
imagine why anybody would drop dice into
a glass of water on a counter.

266
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,759
You can tell that way if the
dice is loaded. If the same points

267
00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:11,640
come up every time you drop them, well they are loaded. Well he

268
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,839
seemed to be all right, of
course there are Oh we'll have to clear

269
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,440
all this stuff off the table before
we can shoot. Oh well, that's

270
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,279
too much trouble. Get down on
the floor, on the rug. It's

271
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,759
more fun that way, on the
rud. Well, yeah, sure,

272
00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:30,839
okay, I'll bet ten dollars.
Ah, ten dollars. I thought you

273
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,920
were such a red hot spoil.
Well, before you get red hot,

274
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,200
Garman, you have to get warmed
up a little, you know. Ten

275
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,960
dollars. Okay, big shins,
you cavin go ahead, roll them out.

276
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,720
I won't even bother looking for the
kind of money. Ohm, But

277
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,279
twelve the highest point you can make
that ought to be worth something. That's

278
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,880
box cars. You get many of
them, you ain't going to be traveling

279
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,279
in style. Another tenman, Yeah, cavied, big shins. Six deuce

280
00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:00,839
from the kata. All right,
comme on show the folks. You know

281
00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:06,119
you're arithmetic let's make the point with
a five three shake rattle rule two and

282
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,519
two is four. That's half of
what you're apping. We'll get the rest

283
00:20:08,519 --> 00:20:14,759
of it this time. March and
six deuce right back. Okay, I'll

284
00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:18,279
let the twenty ride six two.
But Timmy, you said you'd make the

285
00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:37,880
eight with a five to three.
Does it come this way? I thought

286
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,000
you wanted to get your sister's fifteen
hundred back. We've been going half an

287
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,960
hour and I'm seventy bucks ahead,
And that's why we'll shoot all night and

288
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,680
nobody will get anywhere. Well,
I Dice haven't gotten hurt for me yet.

289
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,279
I can tell yeah, Well,
I'm tired of this paneatic stuff.

290
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,319
Maybe your sister's ready to shoot for
some real money. You'll keep out of

291
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,920
this much. You're not gonna win
her money back for this way. Your

292
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,519
sister makes you look like a piker. All right, all right, if

293
00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:00,119
you feel that way about it,
go im and I'll tell you what I'll

294
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,759
do. I'll shoot the whole fifteen
hundred she lost all in one roll.

295
00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:06,200
Oh, Timmy, that's a lot
of money. Put it up, big

296
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:11,119
shot. Well suppose you cover it
too. It's miney, I've got it

297
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,759
covered. Don't worry, go ahead
shooting, Oh, Tim, how wonderful?

298
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,759
A seven that wins? Yeah?
Something tells me, well, I

299
00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:22,720
guess that was all I needed.
Now I'm getting hot. I'll let the

300
00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:26,880
three thousand ride. Well, good
cover, But boss, will you stay

301
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,880
out of this? Twenty five hundred, three thousand? Go ahead, roll

302
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,680
them out here? You bet all
right? Be good to Papa. Dice

303
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:36,519
for three thousand, nice big dollars. Be alert, Dice, Come on

304
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,039
news, Oh too bad? A
five fee the good hot Dice. Let's

305
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:45,119
five right back a bank account waiting
for money, little old easy five.

306
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:51,119
Come on, Dice eight five deuce
five for Papa. Just one little five

307
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,680
is all I ask scroll. Oh, I'll get closer than that. Come

308
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:59,759
on, I'll be good, Dice
five. So I let the six thousand

309
00:21:59,839 --> 00:22:04,519
ride. Yeah, covered, bright
boy, shut up your covered terrance shot

310
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,960
okay, Dyce, let's seven eleven. It's time to break the monotony.

311
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,680
Right high, wide and handsome on
a way of prosperity. Dice. Oh,

312
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,039
I'm sorry, Marge. I said
i'd make an eleven, and it's

313
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:18,720
a seven. But that wins,
Tim, Boss, you're to call this.

314
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,000
You don't keep your mouth shut.
You mean he's doing something crooked.

315
00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:26,240
I've been watching and I don't see
anything. You wouldn't. Is somebody insinuating

316
00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:29,880
I haven't said a thing. Bright
boy, you're letting the twelve thousand rods.

317
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:32,960
If you can cover it, I
can cover a lot more than that.

318
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:34,839
Sonny, get the yell other bag
out of the bedroom soaping bus.

319
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,839
This is your thing, but cape
still soap you when you get the bag.

320
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,920
Okay, Timmy, I think this
is perfectly marvelous. And it's so

321
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,519
honest too. What he told you
how good he was before he started taking

322
00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:55,200
your money? Right? All right? They yeah, bright boy? You

323
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,160
think I'm gonna run short of money? Look it over what there's a fortune

324
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,119
in that bag. Ah, anybody
who's good enough to take it away from

325
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,599
me can have it if they take
it honest? Is that it crack?

326
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,359
Oh? No, I'm not saying
a thing. You twelve thousands? Covet?

327
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,960
Go ahead? Roll them out.
Nothing won't give me more pleasure,

328
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,559
mister Gorman, What would you like? What do you mean? What would

329
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:17,960
I like? A point or a
natural? Oh, don't be so smart.

330
00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:19,319
Just go ahead and roll all right, if that's you feel about it,

331
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:25,680
Okay, tim aren't you forgetting something? You aren't talking to the dice.

332
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,640
Oh well, I don't have too
much. With twenty four thousand dollars

333
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,960
on the line, I don't want
to disturb the dice. I'll just roll

334
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,240
them out like this. You see, you win a four and a three,

335
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,920
A beautiful four and three. Prettiest
little dice faces I ever saw in

336
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,160
my life. Just look at their
eyes, all seven of all right,

337
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,759
save the comedy. You ain't shut
up, all right, Terrence, You've

338
00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:45,960
had your fun. What do you
mean? I just wanted to see how

339
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,240
far you'd go with it? What
are you talking about? You think I'm

340
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,400
a sap? You've been giving those
dice the old blanket roll? What does

341
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:52,759
he mean to you? He knows
what I mean, all right. I've

342
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:56,519
been watching him. He's been using
a blanket roll every time. I don't

343
00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:59,119
see what you mean. Well,
it looks like you'll have to tell them.

344
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,799
I want to tell them, all
right. On any soft surface,

345
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,559
like a bed, or a blanket
or a rug of this kind, the

346
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,680
dice roll in a straight line if
you hold them right, you say here

347
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,599
like this, What difference does it
make whether they roll in a straight line

348
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,720
or not? The difference between winning
a fortune and depending on luck. I

349
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:18,279
don't get it. I don't either. Oh, that's because you're dopes.

350
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,119
You hold the dice side beside in
your hand. On the first roll,

351
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,599
with the six on one dice facing
an ace on the other. You see

352
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,519
the two faces against each other.
There isn't a chance the world are rolling

353
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:33,759
a deuce or a twelve, and
the odds are two to one in your

354
00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:37,319
favor coming up with a seven.
But you might explain the rest of it

355
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,440
to him, goodman. On the
off chance that you roll a point,

356
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,400
the faces of the dice you hold
against each other determine how you'll make the

357
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,200
point. You see the dice roll
over and over, but not side,

358
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,079
So you admit you were using the
blanket roll. Well, I never said

359
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,519
I wasn't the boss rider to let
him get away with it so long,

360
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:56,279
I'll tell you, soph because he
didn't want to expose his own racket unless

361
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:57,519
he had to. He didn't want
to let Junior and Marge see how they'd

362
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:00,920
been losing their money. Or you
know all he am is, don't you?

363
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,079
When I lost the fifteen hundred,
we rolled the dice on a rug

364
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,400
just like this, one smooth and
so, and you had just a good

365
00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:10,400
chance to roll him right as I
did. The dice aren't crooked. You

366
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,839
got no beef? Should I pick
up the dough bus? Why no,

367
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,480
Sophie, I'm really shocked at you. We aren't gonna have any strong armstuff.

368
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,640
Mister Terrence won the money he wanted
the same way I want it from

369
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,599
these suckers. We we're just gonna
roll a few more hands and well,

370
00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:32,839
this time I'm gonna handle the dice. Mike. That, Sophie, he

371
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,480
has a gun. Didn't you expect
he would have. You won't get hurt

372
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:37,240
missed if you play along with Gunner
like he wants. Yes see, I

373
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:41,960
wouldn't dream a hijack and you all
I want is the same chance you had.

374
00:25:41,559 --> 00:25:45,279
You have twenty four thousand dollars on
the table, and I cover it.

375
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,880
But this time I roll a dice. It's all fair square. That's

376
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,759
certainly making armed robbery refined. I
give me the dice, mister Bley,

377
00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:57,240
sure, and uh, you'll have
no beef when I take it. Six

378
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:03,400
and and ace facing the same way
you held them. Any complaints, Oh

379
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,359
no, no, no, got
a complaint in the world for u twenty

380
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,359
four thousand dollars. I could roll
naturals all day. Well, aren't you

381
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,000
really even gonna shake? Why bother? You and I both know how it

382
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,759
works. I'll just give him a
Nyes gentle roll. He rode box cars?

383
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,799
Twelve? Hey, Hey, what's
going on? Well? I don't

384
00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:26,720
know, Gorman, there your dice? Want to shoot again? Yours in

385
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:30,160
your grip? Keeps? Tell just
take care of the gun. Would you

386
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,559
like to shoot again? In a
minute, I'm gonna give these dice a

387
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:38,960
few rolls. Yeah, well,
well, well another twelve and another one.

388
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,599
I ain't seen so many box cars
since I was riding my rods.

389
00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:47,279
What have you done to these dice? Oh? The your dice, Corman,

390
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:48,200
you want to know how to handle
him better than that. Maybe you're

391
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,839
nervous. Oh Betty isn't hot.
It's just not his nice grab up the

392
00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:55,680
money, Soapie. I thought you
were keeping this technically on the up and

393
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:57,079
up. Oh you're lucky. I'm
not having Sophie put a slug through.

394
00:26:57,079 --> 00:27:00,160
You can come it, Soapie.
When I even get my fifteen, You're

395
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,920
not gonna get out of here alive. I don't believe i'd take that money.

396
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Soapy, because the minute your fingers
touch it, I shoot Gorman.

397
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,839
I've got him covered you. Yes, yes, you want to risk a

398
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,920
lot of trouble, Sophie, go
right ahead and pick up the money.

399
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,720
You see, Junior wouldn't have to
worry. He has plenty of witnesses.

400
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,720
But you'd be in a slight jam. I imagine if there were any fireworks.

401
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,279
Give it to the kids, soaping. It's a pretty funny bluff,

402
00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:26,119
Gorman. I've never seen a crooked
gambling yet. Who'd risk gunplay? You

403
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:27,640
heard me? So do you think
Sophie's gonna risk go onto the chair to

404
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,400
save your money? You heard me, Soapy. I'm sorry, boss.

405
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:37,000
The guy's right, what boss,
I've just resigned. Yeah, mister,

406
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:40,079
you take the gun. I don't
want to thank you. Sophy. You're

407
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:42,839
showing excellent judgment. You are to
stay in your own backyard. That's what

408
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,720
you ought to do. That's so
long, folks see it. The Junior

409
00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:53,640
leave you, tump back, take
your Gorman. Ladies present, no rough

410
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,640
talk. I'll rough talk you when
I get out of here. And that's

411
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,359
for you. When you're dirty doubles
talking, Marge, frisk them for weapons

412
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,960
while I'm falling and stacking this money? Would you? Oh wonderful, mister

413
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:11,039
Trent. You're a character, honestly, Junia, how much money do you

414
00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:15,440
suppose you've lost to Gorman? Roughly
about twenty thousand dollars altogether. But it

415
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:18,039
was on a regular dice table,
sure, with six as flats. Huh,

416
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,039
a dice slaughtered, So you're bound
to end up loser even if you

417
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:23,720
win a little once in a while
percentage dice. You know all the answers

418
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,319
that, yes, I think so. He isn't carrying any guns, Mike,

419
00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:32,759
Mike, you called him that once
before, Sure, Mike Trent,

420
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:41,000
maybe you've heard of him. Oh
yeah, I'll get you for this.

421
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:44,400
Hell when if you're not gonna get
anybody, Goman, you can't make a

422
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,279
beef without exposing your own crookedness and
fire with you. I'd see that nothing

423
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:48,559
happens to Junior. What do you
mean? I mean? I'm making a

424
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:52,119
full report of this game to the
police from now on. They'll be watching

425
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,640
you all the time. You're shoving
me right out of top, that's right,

426
00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:03,119
Any complaints? Look all those box
cars I rolled, I doubt this

427
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,079
is all that. Well, you
see, I had some ad hero fluid

428
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:10,640
and a sponge pinned inside my coat? You see, and hero fluid?

429
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,720
What are you talking about? Oh, you should keep up on new development

430
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:17,559
scoreman. It's a fluid to load
dice while the game's in progress. Why

431
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,079
yes, it's a clear plastic fluid
that hardens when it comes in contact with

432
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,680
celluloid. I gave the aces on
those dice a good heavy coat of it

433
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,799
while you were telling me you were
going to take over it. I didn't

434
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:27,799
see you. All all I had
to do was get the fluid on my

435
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:33,319
fingers much and rubbed my fingers over
the aces. The dice was so loaded

436
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,799
that when Gorman took them up,
they'd turn even on a soft padded surface.

437
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,319
You're the dirtiest crook I ever wrote. No, no, no,

438
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:45,359
not a dirty crook, Gorman,
an honest crook. Here's your twenty thousand,

439
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,279
junior, and you're fifteen hundred march. Oh and here's another thirty five

440
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:52,799
hundred to cover with your other friends
lost junior. Gee. Thanks, But

441
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,920
what do I owe you for your
your work? Mister Trent? Not a

442
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,240
cent? Junior? Somehow or other, I seem to have done all right.

443
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,960
And now here's a last word from
the man who knows the rackets inside

444
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,640
out. Mike Trent, thank you
well. I hope you like tonight's show.

445
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:22,759
It should help convince you that anybody
can be easy money for crooked dice

446
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,799
game operators. And remember, not
even the water test is infallible for crooked

447
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,559
dice. Any game can be rigged
in fifty different ways, so the one

448
00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:36,119
way to be safe is to keep
out of the game. This is my

449
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,920
Trent signing off of the thought that
you can never stay even with the game

450
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,160
when the odds are always against you. Remember, there's no such thing as

451
00:30:44,200 --> 00:31:00,640
easy money. You have just heard
another in NBC News series Easy Money,

452
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,519
exposing the inside tricks of the gambler's
trade. Be sure to listen again next

453
00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:10,160
week when Mike Trent shows how it's
possible for you to be jypped on what

454
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,400
may look like a perfectly respectable raffle. It's called the lottery Racket. Featured

455
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,200
in tonight's cast where Larry Haynes as
Mike Trent, with Wendy Drew, Peter

456
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:23,680
Fernandez, Ralph Bell, and Maurice
Tarplin. Script by George B. Anderson.

457
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,079
Easy Money is produced and directed for
air shows incorporated by Blair Wallacer.

458
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:38,319
This is Bill McCord. Join your
favorite couple, Filamigee and Molly tonight on

459
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:49,720
the NBC Radio Network. Welcome back. I love mock trance style. Jim.

460
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,160
What are your overall thoughts on this
episode? You know, I just

461
00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:59,640
loved it. Like all crime shows
on radio at that time, they're all

462
00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:07,039
morality tales, they have to end
up with whoever did wrong getting their come

463
00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:14,000
up, and it's it's set among
noir films that the detective whoever it is,

464
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,720
sees something that's wrong and has to
set it right. And that's what

465
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:22,359
we hear at the end of that
episode. You know, did he want

466
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,799
money, did he want payment?
No? Peace? Set something right and

467
00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:30,599
thought he came out of it pretty
well, Yeah, because that that was

468
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:37,119
his whole thing, is just exposing
the rackets and cons of the day,

469
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:45,200
as that was such a big focus
as you know. Also we see in

470
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:52,640
the TV show Racket Squad. Now, I was wondering our board rich kids

471
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:58,200
like we see portrayed in this episode
particularly likely marks for scammers today. I

472
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:00,319
mean, I think in this case, it seems like it worked for the

473
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:07,599
gamblers because they have money, they
have little life experience and not a whole

474
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:13,160
lot of sense of responsibility. You
know, I think it runs to both

475
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,519
ends of the spectrum. Surprisingly,
one would think that it would only be

476
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:22,039
one. But you get the rich
folks and those are the more elaborate scams

477
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:25,640
that are pulled on them. Generally, the crew has someone that's known as

478
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,079
the roper, and it's their job
to go out and to identify someone who

479
00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:35,519
would make a good mark for the
crew to work on and to apply whatever

480
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:39,720
scam they're using on. And then
you're having the people at the other end

481
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:47,759
of the scale that are either poor
or unsophisticated or just needy. And one

482
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:54,000
of the worst scams that I talk
about is called the romance scam or the

483
00:33:54,119 --> 00:34:00,880
Russian bride scam. It's somewhat known. And that's when the scammer gets into

484
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,720
the heart of the mark and convinces
them they love them more than anything and

485
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,320
eventually progresses where they decide to marry
when they've never met in person before.

486
00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:16,840
So what you're catching people is at
a weak spot. They're needing something to

487
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:22,719
fill a hole inside. So on
the rich end of the scale, it's

488
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:29,719
probably greed, and on the edit
of the scale, its need now one

489
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,960
thing that was interesting to me as
a non dam blur is that they cheated

490
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:36,880
in a way that I wouldn't have
caught onto. I mean, I think

491
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,039
most of us know from popular culture
about loaded, diced and marked cards,

492
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,760
but there was none of that there, you know, just a rug roll.

493
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:51,360
What are some other kinds of sneaky
ways that con man will use in

494
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,599
these sort of gambling cons. Well, now you've gone to my heart on

495
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,800
one con called the three Card BONDI
and I don't know if you've heard about

496
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,039
that or not. It's played loosely
in big cities and primarily in New York.

497
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,480
It's said to be the longest running
con on Broadway. And the way

498
00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:14,400
it works is that you have a
person called a tosser who has three cards,

499
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,679
and the game is three card mody, follow the lady anythings like that.

500
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,719
One of them is a queen and
the other two cards are say the

501
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,199
queen is a red queen, the
other two or like black fives or something

502
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,239
like that. So it's pretty easy
to spot the queen. In this case,

503
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:37,119
the people the marks self identify.
They come up and look at the

504
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:42,639
game and they can always see where
the queen is. So in that sense,

505
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:49,199
they are seen as someone who can
be brought in. Now, let

506
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,480
me take you a second to tell
you about this crowd that's around the table.

507
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:57,400
Now, when I say table,
is generally a box, a cardboard

508
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:01,239
box, and it appears that all
kinds of different people are watching and playing.

509
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,079
Some of them wins, some of
them lose. But the Mark is

510
00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:10,800
out here seeing the Queen every single
time, and he thinks I should be

511
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,239
able to beat this. These people
must be idiots that they can't see the

512
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,599
queen. At that point, the
tosser and don't say that in England because

513
00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:24,000
it means something completely different there.
You'll get your lights punched out. But

514
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:29,320
the tosser will say something like open
the gate or something along that lines.

515
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,719
What they don't realize is that everybody
around this table is a shill, and

516
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,159
they're dressed differently, they look differently, they talk differently. You would not

517
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,679
think they would know each other.
And when the gate opens, they're kind

518
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:49,159
of moving the Mark toward the box
where the tosser's working, and then they

519
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,760
close the gate behind them. If
that person is with somebody, a friend,

520
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,559
a spouse, something like that,
that person is edged off to the

521
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:04,760
side, so they influence what's going
on. So they're doing this and they're

522
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,639
tossing things back and forth, and
this guy finally says, well, I'll

523
00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:13,480
bet a little money. So he
puts down twenty bucks or whatever it is,

524
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,880
and he wins, and that's called
the convincer. It goes on.

525
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:23,800
There comes a point where you have
to make the sucker angry, and we

526
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:30,079
heard that in the tread episode on
the Dice. They wanted to make the

527
00:37:30,159 --> 00:37:35,519
guy so angry that he threw all
his money down there and lost it.

528
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:39,119
And that's what happens in this game, is you get the mark to throw

529
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,360
all their money down there. They're
angry with the tosser, they know they

530
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,239
can beat them, and that's when
the cards get switched, and of course

531
00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:52,159
there's no queen. The box folds
up the cards or the money is taken.

532
00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:57,199
The cards are gone, and they
are out of there in nothing flat.

533
00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:02,400
I'm told this game can clean someone
out in about eight minutes. Wow.

534
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,119
So let's go ahead and talk a
little bit about your podcast, which,

535
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,239
as we as, I think listeners
can tell you know quite a bit

536
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:19,239
about this. Why did you start
the Scams and Cons podcast? Since I

537
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,840
was a kid, I always had
this fascination with heist films, and to

538
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,239
pull off a good heist you have
to run a lot of cons in the

539
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,719
middle to make sure that you get
the information and the people that you need

540
00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:36,400
to pull it off. So I
retired. I'm an old guy and I

541
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:38,719
started out in radio. I've always
missed it, and I thought, well,

542
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,840
why not start a podcast? Everybody
else has one. I should be

543
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,280
able to pull it off. Now. How often does your podcast come out?

544
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:53,079
And you've also been doing a series
on people making themselves disappear? Could

545
00:38:53,119 --> 00:38:59,360
you talk about that. Yeah,
we come out the longer episodes come out

546
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:04,880
on the second and fourth Thursdays.
I'm also doing a thing called Scams and

547
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Cons News, which are scams that
are more current, and that comes out

548
00:39:09,039 --> 00:39:13,280
on the first and third, although
I'm hoping to step that up this fall.

549
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:19,880
Our first five seasons have been about
different scams and how they're run,

550
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:24,920
and in education we say we take
people behind the scenes to show them how

551
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,400
scams are run and why people fall
for them. And it occurred to me

552
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:34,360
that we're always looking at it and
the goal is to look at it from

553
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,199
the criminals point of view, But
what if we flipped it around and had

554
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:44,480
one person try to con the entire
world, And so that was the premise

555
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:49,039
behind the Vanishing series. How do
you pull off a con on the whole

556
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:53,840
world so that they think you're something
you're not? And it sounds like fun,

557
00:39:54,119 --> 00:40:00,000
but it is incredibly difficult to do
now. I personally have been scammed.

558
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:05,360
I was scammed by my first employer, who ran a newspaper, and

559
00:40:05,519 --> 00:40:08,440
I like to say we had a
philosophical disagreement over whether you should pay your

560
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:15,960
employees. But have you ever been
scammed? Oh? Yeah, I think

561
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:22,360
there's probably everybody's been scammed in one
way or another. One of the ones

562
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:28,039
that sticks in my mind is that
I'm leaving the road near my house to

563
00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:32,000
get on the Interstate and there's a
car pull over and the hood is up

564
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,679
and it seems that there's the engine
is overheated, and there's two little kids

565
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,960
with this guy. This has all
the elements of a scam on it,

566
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:49,000
just everything, But I'm a sucker. I pull over and ask what's going

567
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:51,719
on? He goes, Oh,
I just need some matter freeze to get

568
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,719
back in here. My car's overheated. We're heading toward Knox Full and the

569
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,719
whole nine yards and I see those
kids there and I just, you know,

570
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,559
I just go, well, what
if this is real? And we

571
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:10,119
could talk later about how con artists
get you to believe something that's not true.

572
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:15,760
But I said, okay, I'll
buy you some Ada freeze. We'll

573
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,159
get you up and going and tell
me how much, how many gallons you

574
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,199
need, and I'll go get them. And he says, oh, you

575
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:23,719
can just give me the money.
I'll run up here at the convenience store

576
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,880
and buy it. And I said, no, I'm not going to do

577
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,280
that. I will buy you add
A freeze, but I will not just

578
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,840
hand the money over to you.
Well, he wasn't very pleased with that,

579
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,320
but told me, and so I
went out and spent I guess about

580
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,079
sixty bucks on Adda Freeze and brought
it back to him. So at that

581
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:47,639
point, he's either cursing me or
he needed the add to freeze and was

582
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,920
going to get back on the road. I preferred not to stand around and

583
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:57,960
find out because I knew that probably
one hundred percent I was being scammed.

584
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:00,960
But the thought of those two kids
sitting there, and it's like, Okay,

585
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:07,480
I'd rather be a sucker than that
ignores somebody in real needs. So

586
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:14,840
that and there was another good scam
that was run on me. Oh I

587
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:20,480
ran it on myself. I should
be honest about that. There's a scam

588
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:25,480
where somebody stands in a parking lot
playing a violin and it's beautiful music,

589
00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:30,239
just gorgeous stuff, and people want
to give money and thinking, oh,

590
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:37,119
this person's out on their luck and
that sort of thing. So i'm I

591
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,719
come up to this target store and
typically the violin is plugged into an amplifier,

592
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:46,800
and sometimes frequently there's somebody else with
them, a kid or somebody along

593
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:53,119
that lines, and the violinist is
not playing at all from a cell phone

594
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,760
or something is being plugged into the
amplifier and that's what's coming out. But

595
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,440
the con artist has learned how to
memory the movements that go with the music,

596
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:07,039
all right. So I sit there
and think I wrote a podcast.

597
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,800
So I got out my cell phone
and went up and confronted him, and

598
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:15,920
of course he didn't speak English,
and he wouldn't say anything to me.

599
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:19,119
I tried to get him to unplug
the violin. He wouldn't do that,

600
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:24,679
so I just just kind of gave
him trouble for a while to be honest

601
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,800
with you. And a couple of
weeks later, so I'm in a different

602
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,199
parking lot in a different area,
and what do you know, there's another

603
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,679
violin player. So I go up
to the guy and do the same thing,

604
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,719
and he says, I'm no scammer. He pulls the plug out of

605
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:49,119
the violin and plays incredible music without
the speaker. He'd studied for eight years

606
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,079
violin. He absolutely knew what he
was doing. So I guess in that

607
00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:59,840
case, the tables got turned and
I got scammed. Well that's that's definitely

608
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:05,599
an interesting story. I'm kind of
wondering if I was if you just revealed

609
00:44:05,639 --> 00:44:09,039
to me that I got scammed.
But I think because I just I gave

610
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:15,079
money to a violin player recently.
But let's go ahead, and sorry to

611
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:22,239
bring that's your attention. But let's
go ahead and we'll get onto our next

612
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:27,159
episode, which is going to be
from Dragnet. It's one of my all

613
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:32,000
time favorite episodes from November twenty third, nineteen fifty. Here's the big Betty.

614
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:45,480
The story you were about to hear
is true, only the names have

615
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:57,400
been changed to protect the innocent.
Dragnet. You're a detective sergeant. You're

616
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,159
assigned a Bunco detail. A gang
of petty swindlers is set up operations in

617
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:08,079
your city. They're experienced, cunning, they work fast. Your job get

618
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:22,519
them. Dragnet the documented drama of
an actual crime. While the next thirty

619
00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:25,760
minutes, in cooperation with the Los
Angeles Police Department, you will travel step

620
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,480
by step on the side of the
law through an actual case transcribed from official

621
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:35,840
police files, from beginning to end, from crime to punishment. Dragnet is

622
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:43,239
the story of your police force in
action. It was Tuesday, December fourteenth,

623
00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:45,519
was cold Los Angeles. We were
working the day Watch out of Bunco

624
00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:50,320
Detail. My partner's Ben Ramero.
The boss is Captain McCauley. My name

625
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,480
is Friday. It was ten thirty
five am when I got to Room thirty

626
00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:59,400
eight Bunco Detail. Yeah, Gavin, sure, this is ms bergstram You

627
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:00,960
talked to one phone line now,
Oh yeah, sure, this is my

628
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:05,000
partner searching Friday. How do you
do? Glad to know you? Did

629
00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:08,119
you care to sit down? Thank
you? I was downtown so I thought

630
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:10,840
it'd be just as easy for me
to come in and see you. Did

631
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:16,880
you bring those things with you?
Miss Beerston. Here they are wristwatch and

632
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:22,599
a pencil set. She'll make him
look nice, don't they on the outside.

633
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:28,119
Yeah, let me take the back
off the watch for you. There

634
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,079
you can see for yourself. Searching
m it's a junk, not worth fifteen

635
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:36,039
cents. Church me forty eight dollars
for that watch. Said it was hostel.

636
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:37,719
He wasn't making any profit on it. Tell me he was doing it

637
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,079
cause he's known Harry so well.
Watch on. He ran for day then

638
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:45,199
it stopped. How about the pen
and pencil set? Man, this is

639
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:50,960
bad pens just a shell. Won't
even write say with a pencil. I

640
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:57,960
paid him thirty dollars for them.
It's engraving on the pen with love from

641
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:01,440
Harry. That's Harry's boy has engaged
too. How the man got me interested

642
00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:05,960
to start with? Came to my
house and gave him to me the watch

643
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,639
and the panda pencil. Said Harry
had ordered them his presents for me.

644
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:15,519
I just had to cry when he
dropped them for Harry. When did this

645
00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:20,840
man come to your home, Miss
Percement? Yesterday morning? I guess I

646
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,280
should have been more careful, but
I didn't think anybody would do a thing

647
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,519
like that. What kind of a
story did he give you? Well,

648
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,480
he came to the door and told
me his name was Spencer. He said

649
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,840
Harry had ordered these things his presence
for me, and Harry told him to

650
00:47:36,159 --> 00:47:39,239
delivered them to my house. Watched
look beautiful in the case. I didn't

651
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:44,199
know anything was wrong. I see, Would you go on please? He

652
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,039
told me it was a special order, said Harry had written him from overseas

653
00:47:47,079 --> 00:47:52,599
a week before. Harry was in
the Marine Corps. You know well,

654
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,360
he said, he hoped Jim Engraving
was all right where Harry wrote he wanted

655
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,239
it in his letter. I just
couldn't take it, I cried. This

656
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:07,440
man. He pretended to be a
close friend of Harry. Yeah, that's

657
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,000
why I showed him the letter,
one from the Marine carp Harry being killed

658
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,239
overseas. When did you receive that
letter, miss Preston? Two days before

659
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,760
on Saturday. Harry's name was on
casualty list on Monday. Yes, I

660
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,119
understand. What did the man do
when he showed him the letter? H

661
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:30,840
He sympathized with me there, he
pretended to. I didn't think there was

662
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,920
any trick. I didn't think anybody
who sat low pen and pencil set looked

663
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,960
a little cheap, but I wanted
them no matter how cheap they were.

664
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,599
Harry's last present to me, That's
what I thought. How did he approach

665
00:48:43,679 --> 00:48:46,320
the idea of money? Well,
when he was ready to leave, he

666
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,320
told me Harry ordered the things on
credit. They didn't want to mention it,

667
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:52,800
but he wondered how I could get
payment for the watch and the pen

668
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,880
and pencil. Well, he didn't
show you ability an invoice listing the price

669
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,559
of the watch or the engraving that
was done. I didn't want him bother

670
00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:07,199
and Harry's some other father at a
time like this, I borrowed some money

671
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,840
from my dad and paid him.
Let's see, it's forty eight dollars for

672
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,079
the watch, thirty for the pen
and pencil center. Yeah, he gave

673
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:17,360
me a phone number to call up
the watch needed adjustment. When I found

674
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,880
the watch was a fake, I
called a number. It was a Chinese

675
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,679
laundry. They didn't know anything about
it. You haven't seen or heard from

676
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:28,360
this man since he left your house
yesterday morning? No, did you describe

677
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,480
this man, boys, miss Bergstram, what he looked like closing this way?

678
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:37,400
What's right here? In this slipper
paper. Sergeant, I wrote it

679
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:42,159
all out for you. Thank you. Well, you're not alone. If

680
00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:45,239
that's any consolation. There's an army
with a lot in Hollywood was cheated on

681
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,599
the same kind of deal last Friday. It's so cruel. You see a

682
00:49:47,639 --> 00:49:52,039
dead person's name to cheat you,
Yes, ma'am. How could anybody get

683
00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:58,920
lower than that? They keep trying. Ben and I took missus Bergston's crime

684
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,880
report watching pen and pencils set were
booked as evidence. In the past two

685
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:07,400
weeks, we received a half a
dozen identical complaints from relatives or friends of

686
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,599
lately deceased persons. The swindler or
con man, as he likes to be

687
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:14,400
called in this trade, gets the
names of lately deceased persons from the obituary

688
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,360
column or the military casualty list in
the newspapers. Then he fixes up some

689
00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:22,760
cheap article of merchandise with appropriate engraving, and calls on the friends and relatives

690
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,960
of the deceased. He pretends to
know nothing about the death of the person

691
00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:29,800
whom he claims placed the order for
the merchandise. In almost every case,

692
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,119
the friend or relative agrees to pay
for the articles at some exorbitant price for

693
00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:37,440
the con man. It's a lucrative
racket for the public. A vicious one,

694
00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:40,360
Wednesday, December fifteenth. Then and
I looked up an informant, a

695
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:47,119
former con man, Henglo Fellas then
business for two months during fine wait,

696
00:50:47,159 --> 00:50:51,800
heng of it looks great, Judge, nice set a minus brabyll hotter and

697
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,559
start Los Angeles. That's why advertise, Hey, you're not. I think

698
00:50:54,599 --> 00:50:57,880
that's too broad, do you?
Oh? I don't think so, Judd.

699
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,639
You've got some nice equipment here,
baby laundry. How'd you ever get

700
00:51:00,679 --> 00:51:04,360
started? By law? Stap me
up with the loan? Says you got

701
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,199
tired of me trying to sell him
bum watches. Well it's a good break

702
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:08,639
for you, Jed. So you
got a couple of minutes we'd like to

703
00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:12,199
talk to you. You think come
on back here? Okay, fine,

704
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,760
thanks? Yeah, I squared away, living a solid life. I'm bad

705
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,199
at all, you know. It
surprised me. Do you ever see any

706
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:23,039
of the old gang, Jed?
Not much? No sell the old drifters

707
00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:28,039
looked me up now and I don't
try to touch me. I'll go hey

708
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:37,760
old enough, Yeah, thank you? Okay, Fellas? What can I

709
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,519
do for you. Well, we'd
like to know how close you got your

710
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:43,840
ear to the ground. Jed.
There was a gang of bunks in town.

711
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,960
They're working hard. What pitch they're
working the old bits casually lists.

712
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:50,880
But maybe you might be able to
help us. I know how long have

713
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,159
been going, the last couple of
weeks and half a dozen reports on him.

714
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:58,239
That's one thing they never could tap
me for obituary record lows this record

715
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,639
there is. Can you do anything
for us? I heard one little rumble

716
00:52:00,679 --> 00:52:05,320
about it, or five guys in
the corn mob. All right, we

717
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,639
know that, Jed. Where can
we look for? You know my position?

718
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,880
I quit the game. I quit
only contacts on macer when some of

719
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,599
the old boys come around for a
touch. How much you heard about the

720
00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:17,000
game? What I said? There's
four or five of them out of Middlewest.

721
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:20,360
I think you got any idea at
all where we could start looking.

722
00:52:20,679 --> 00:52:22,480
Well, I can start checking for
you. You nail any of them.

723
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:27,039
You haven't got to fund him before
we can arrest him yet. Yeah.

724
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:29,119
Well, as I say, when
I quit the game, I quit.

725
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,119
But maybe I can take a few
soundings for you. Can't promise you anything.

726
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:36,880
I'm strictly on helping up with Okay, judge, you know where to

727
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,360
get in touch with us. Will
appreciate anything you can do, and well

728
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,360
you help me plenty of times,
Fellows, wouldn't hurt a bit to tab

729
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,719
that bunch. I'll walk out with
you. Yeah. See, you've got

730
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,239
all the machines going, baby Londy
business must be pretty good. Huh.

731
00:52:51,519 --> 00:52:54,360
It's a step of commodity, Fellows. It's always need a fresh change,

732
00:52:55,079 --> 00:53:00,000
just not Yeah, I look at
this. Just look at the size of

733
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:04,920
it. Yeah. You ever see
any small in your life? It's cute?

734
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,960
Huh Yeah, what is it?
You kind of soakers? I think

735
00:53:07,679 --> 00:53:14,639
let's see the label here right Yeah, mother Greg super soakers, good things.

736
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:16,400
They suld give me a wallet,
you know. He reminds, well,

737
00:53:16,519 --> 00:53:19,440
check the office while we're here,
Ben, and I use your phone.

738
00:53:19,519 --> 00:53:21,360
Jah, you got right over there
on the wall. You gotta change.

739
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:45,280
Yeah, thank you. I have
City Hall two five seven Buncle fugitive

740
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:49,960
Brian Joe Friday time anything doing?
Yeah, Joe, I think we might

741
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:52,920
have a leader on those bunks working
the habituary racking. What do you got?

742
00:53:52,519 --> 00:53:57,159
He reached a woman in Highland Park. Where are you, baby laundry?

743
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,400
Oh well, it's a Missus Westerly. Her daughter was build in an

744
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,719
auto accident last night. They came
around and sold a woman to watch her

745
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:07,320
daughter. Was supposed to order also
a necklace and pen and pencil set for

746
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,800
two hundred and fifty dollars usual.
Jim, did you talk to this missus

747
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:14,159
Westerly. Yeah, we took a
report. The man's descriptions him all the

748
00:54:14,199 --> 00:54:16,400
rest all matchub. What's the lead? She watched the man when he left

749
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:22,000
her house? Yeah. He got
in a taxi cab ten thirty am.

750
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,480
While sergeants bryanton All already got out
a broadcast on the suspect. Ben and

751
00:54:25,519 --> 00:54:29,480
I drove to the offices of the
cab company, where we contacted the special

752
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:31,840
agent. He helped us check the
way bills for the preceding night. On

753
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:36,480
the way bill for cab two thirteen, we found the trip listed starting point

754
00:54:36,519 --> 00:54:40,440
in the intersection nearest the Westerly home
destination, a hotel on South Flower Street.

755
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,480
We went to the hotel and interviewed
the desk clerk. From the description

756
00:54:44,679 --> 00:54:47,039
we gave him, he identified the
man as Fred G. Norris from Minneapolis.

757
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,559
At least that's the way he'd signed
the hotel register the clerk told us

758
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:54,800
Norris wasn't in. We had him
show us Norris's room. In his suitcases,

759
00:54:54,840 --> 00:55:00,480
we found quantities of dime store costume
jewelry, monogrammed dozen cheap wrist watches

760
00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:05,440
and wallets, and handbags done in
poor quality imitation leather, also a portable

761
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,599
engraving set. The clerk told us
that Norris was expected back shortly. We

762
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,440
told him to say nothing to the
suspect. When he arrived, we called

763
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,159
the office and arranged for a stake
out at the hotel, and we drove

764
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,360
back to the office one PM.
They told us Norris had been recognized from

765
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,039
his description and picked up by unit
seventeen hour. On the way back to

766
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:25,039
his hotel. Shortly before noon,
Ben and I joined Sergeants Ullery and Bryant

767
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:29,199
in the interrogation room, where they
were questioning the suspect. They looked about

768
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,440
forty years old, white male American, about six feet tall, one hundred

769
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:36,880
and seventy pounds. They would admit
nothing. Brian kept questioning him, You're

770
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,880
wasting our time on your own,
Norris. Face it. You were playing

771
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,400
a rough game in your loss,
now, how about it? You gotta

772
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,880
feel pretty silly when you find out
you got the wrong guy. What do

773
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,320
you work for? Fred? You
can do what you want about investigating me.

774
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,679
You're having a thing to hold me
on. Isn't just wasting any more

775
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,039
time? You got that list of
victims? Yeah, these are the ones

776
00:55:53,079 --> 00:55:57,360
that tab Norris, thank you a
couple more years, Joe. Thanks Jim.

777
00:56:12,679 --> 00:56:15,760
Hello, Miss Burg's from there?
Please? Oh, this is Sergeant

778
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,239
Friday, Miss Birks from Bunco Detail. Yeah, we picked up a suspect

779
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,000
we'd like see if you can identify
him. It'll be alright if we send

780
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,400
a card for you right now.
Right fine, thank you very much.

781
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:40,880
Bye. Look I can't sider all
day. I have business to attend to.

782
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,280
Well, I have noises on the
floe. Hello Miss Crolling there,

783
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:49,159
Please this Sergeant Friday calling Miss Crolling, Bunco Detail. Yes, ma'am that's

784
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,920
right. I'm sorry to disturb you, but we have a suspect and custody

785
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,119
down here. Yes, ma'am.
Hy sergeant could you come down the City

786
00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:58,880
Hall right away? Sergeant what you
hold on just a minute? Please?

787
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:06,880
Thank you, Eah Norris your government. Fifty eight pm we informed the victims

788
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,159
that the special show up had been
canceled. And We called in a stenographer

789
00:57:09,159 --> 00:57:13,519
and had her take Fred Norris's statement. In addition to listing the crimes,

790
00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:15,599
he committee also told us that there
were six men in the Bunco gang besides

791
00:57:15,679 --> 00:57:19,639
himself, and gave us the names
and descriptions of each one of them.

792
00:57:20,119 --> 00:57:22,039
He stated that they'd been operating in
Los Angeles for the past four months.

793
00:57:22,679 --> 00:57:27,000
Noris said that none of them had
ever met the leader of their Bunco gang.

794
00:57:27,079 --> 00:57:29,599
The only contact they had with the
leader was through one of the older

795
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:32,079
gang members, a man with the
name of Wesley Fisher. Before Norris was

796
00:57:32,119 --> 00:57:35,400
taken a cent for jail for booking, he gave us the address of the

797
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,159
house where he had been living with
the other gang members. Norris's information on

798
00:57:38,199 --> 00:57:43,239
the suspects was checked through R and
I. We got one make Wesley Fisher.

799
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:45,760
He had won prior arrest two years
before on a grand theft charge,

800
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:50,760
but had been released for lack of
evidence. Three fifteen PM, together with

801
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,760
Sergeants Ullery and Bryant and two men
from Metro Squad, we drove out to

802
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:57,239
the address given us by Fred Norris. Turned out to be a neat looking

803
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:08,199
bungalow in the West Hollywood area.
H that's good. Would you take the

804
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,920
front door, Joe? Yeah.
You want to have Johnson and Brewer cover

805
00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:15,440
the back of the place book,
Joe, Morey and I will cover the

806
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:31,519
sound banks. Let's go met did
here? Yes? Well no, ma'am.

807
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:50,760
We want to see the tenants want
that's all. You are listening to

808
00:58:51,079 --> 00:59:04,239
dragnet authentic stories of your police force
in action. M Wednesday, December fifteenth,

809
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,920
four pm. We made a thorough
check of the house which the sixth

810
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,360
suspects had just vacated. We found
nothing that would help us. We talked

811
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,920
to the owner of the house where
the suspects had been living. She told

812
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,400
us that she'd rented the place furnished
to them about three months before. She

813
00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:19,559
identified Wesley Fisher's mugshot, but she
told us that he'd used the name of

814
00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:22,639
Charles Wilder. She also recognized each
of the other gang members from the descriptions

815
00:59:22,679 --> 00:59:25,559
at Fred Norris had given us.
She told us that while they were living

816
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:28,719
there, the men seemed to keep
odd hours, and that they had a

817
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,599
car. She told us that she'd
taken the licensed number of the car the

818
00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:35,519
day the men moved in. The
number was checked with DMV it was registered

819
00:59:35,559 --> 00:59:37,760
in the name of Wesley Fisher ten
o eight California Street. It's a transient

820
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:42,800
hotel. The manager told us Fisher
had moved about nine months ago. Was

821
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,400
no forwarding address. We got out
on all points. Bulletin on Wesley Fisher

822
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:49,960
requesting that all occupants in his car
be held for investigation of grand theft.

823
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:52,960
Thursday, December sixteenth, eight am, Olore, Bryant, Ben and I

824
00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:57,679
met with Captain McCauley. Were they
getting all this junk? They're palming off?

825
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,480
Where's the sausag supply guy? We
picked Norris ull Us. They brought

826
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,199
a good supply of it out with
him from the Middlewest. That hotel room

827
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,320
Norris had downtown, they were using
that for a warehouse. They didn't want

828
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:08,360
to keep this stuff at the house
they were living in. How are they

829
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:13,440
hitting any possibility of stakeouts? No? Not Unless we cover every name in

830
01:00:13,519 --> 01:00:15,840
the columns, you might have to
try it. Something's got to be done.

831
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:22,599
Look at these two more this morning
straight out of the obituary column.

832
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,559
Took one family for ninety dollars,
another one for sixty. How about that

833
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,320
last run through the status office?
Help you any they pose some more mugs

834
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,920
for us. We're gonna show them
to the victims this morning. How about

835
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,239
this Norris, I think he's come
up with everything. We were up talking

836
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:38,679
to him again at count of jail
yesterday. They didn't have anything new.

837
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,960
Skiffing we dropped in at the Sheriff's
bunko detail. They've got one new case.

838
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,599
Amo description comes close to one of
the guys. The victim was the

839
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:50,400
father of a Navy flyer lost overseas. They sold him a gold watch chain

840
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,480
that his son was supposed to have
bought him for a present, solid brass.

841
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,519
The sheriff's men got anything new,
and we've been working pretty close with

842
01:00:55,599 --> 01:01:04,519
him. Nothing new. Excuse me, uncle fugitive Captain McCauley, Oh yeah,

843
01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:10,679
hold on you Friday, thank you, Yeah, Joe, there's judge.

844
01:01:10,719 --> 01:01:13,599
Can you meet me out of my
place? What do you got?

845
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:21,639
Name? Wesley Fisher mean adding to
you? Eight thirty am, Ben and

846
01:01:21,719 --> 01:01:23,599
I drove outman with Jet at his
home, who was still in his bathroom

847
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:27,159
when he met us at the door. He told us he had an important

848
01:01:27,159 --> 01:01:30,320
appointment downtown at nine o'clock and he
was in a hurry. He talked to

849
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:36,960
him while he shaved hope your fellows
don't mine. Can't miss this day flying

850
01:01:37,039 --> 01:01:40,559
up some new business. You know. I'm sorry, Jed gread. Yeah,

851
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:44,239
I got to move fast on these
things before they cool. You know,

852
01:01:44,519 --> 01:01:49,400
we're to stay with us, Jed, what's the story? Well,

853
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,280
I don't know. That's worse.
I brought Max called me this morning.

854
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,800
Remember my brother Max, didn't she
No, I don't think so. I

855
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:01,920
watched the Pink Bad Barnes South May
when you were in a senior the other

856
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,599
day. About those driftlies you want, I gave my brother a tumble on

857
01:02:05,719 --> 01:02:09,639
it to'em keep an eye open. I am't a toll with oh yeah,

858
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:17,679
here you go, thanks, and
they're all steamed up to would Max

859
01:02:17,719 --> 01:02:22,039
come up with? Well, he's
knight. Brought tend at the parrots,

860
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:25,559
you know. And last night he
spoted a couple of guys at the bar.

861
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,280
I had some day or newspapers.
Uh huh. They were sitting there

862
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:37,320
with the papers turned the obituary column, checking off names, writing on a

863
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:44,360
dresses. Max is pretty sharp that
way. Spotted'em right off a lousy

864
01:02:44,519 --> 01:02:49,320
razor case. Max know these too, many spotted No, not by name,

865
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,480
but he knew the one of them
lived in the hotel next door.

866
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:55,880
At the bar and the hotel,
nclar coming for a beer and Max asked

867
01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:00,360
him about it. He tab one
of the guys' west Fisher. Did he

868
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:05,599
have anything on the other man now? Clerk told Max he doesn't live at

869
01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:08,639
the hotel, but spends a lot
of time there with Fisher. Had he

870
01:03:08,719 --> 01:03:13,679
seen Fisher and this other guy at
the bar before? Yeah, Max says,

871
01:03:13,719 --> 01:03:15,239
have been in before, got a
lotshed up a couple of times.

872
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,039
Say it would it be okay to
contact your brother at his home, Jed,

873
01:03:22,119 --> 01:03:23,480
We don't wanna contact him at the
bar. Yeah. Sure, thing

874
01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:28,559
gets you a dressed. Soon as
the finished it, he just moved.

875
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:34,800
I think I don't know. I
hope I didn't get you guys out here

876
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,239
for nothing. We appreciated. Jed, looks good. It seems to fet

877
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:42,679
That hotel down there, it's a
hang up. Con Man angles are all

878
01:03:42,719 --> 01:03:49,559
there. Let's hope Fisher is.
Eight fifty three am we arrived at the

879
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:52,559
hotel on South Main Street. We
checked with a desk clerk who told us

880
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:54,719
that Wesley Fisher had room thirty seven. As far as he knew, Fisher

881
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,239
was in his room. We got
a pass key from the clerk and went

882
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,159
up to room thirty seven, where
we found Fisher and another man. He

883
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,440
identified himself as Raymond Breen, one
of the gang members identified by Fred Norris.

884
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:09,320
We also found a small supply of
cheap watches and pen and pencil sets

885
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:14,440
in Fisher's car was parked near the
hotel was impounded. We took both suspects

886
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,039
back to the city Hall. We
questioned them separately and the interrogation room.

887
01:04:17,119 --> 01:04:20,519
Brien was first, but he refused
to answer our questions. He was taken

888
01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:26,519
back to the squad room and Wesley
Fisher was brought in. Said down,

889
01:04:26,679 --> 01:04:31,039
Fisher, thank you guess you know
why you're here? Oh, I haven't

890
01:04:31,079 --> 01:04:34,199
the least idea All right, then
we'll show you, do you know Fred

891
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:40,920
Norris? Fred Norris name sounds a
little familiar. Cat quite place it,

892
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,119
and he places you pretty well.
He says he worked with you and bring

893
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,599
up till a couple of days ago. So yeah, says he lived with

894
01:04:45,679 --> 01:04:51,679
you in that bungalow in West Hollywood. That's so no, that's Hollywood.

895
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:57,159
When was that two days ago?
Fisher? Your landlady identified your mugs even

896
01:04:57,199 --> 01:05:00,400
had the license number of your car. Prove, gentlemen, proves your lying

897
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,000
you and bring work together. You
did work with noise your body one of

898
01:05:04,039 --> 01:05:09,519
the filthiest rackets going. Gentlemen,
you're making a bad mistake. Now there's

899
01:05:09,559 --> 01:05:11,840
no mistake, Fisher, your picture
has been identified about at least a half

900
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,000
a dozen victims. Now you can
go on playing koy all you want,

901
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:15,239
but we can prove that the pen
and pencil sets that you sold some of

902
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,400
the victims are identical with the ones
we find in your car. I haven't

903
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,559
any idea what you're talking about.
Believe me, that's truth. You wouldn't

904
01:05:21,559 --> 01:05:25,440
know the truth if it followed you, mister. Now look, maybe you're

905
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,960
great at conning old men and young
girls, but don't try to pass any

906
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,679
of it here just a moment,
now you listen, you two bit thief.

907
01:05:30,239 --> 01:05:32,440
I couldn't begin to tell you off
of the rocking things you've been pulling

908
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,079
off in this time for the past
three months. A young girl who lost

909
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:39,440
your boyfriend overseas, at widow out
in Hollywood, the old man in Highland

910
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,559
Park who's wife passed away. You
must have felt pretty sharp cheating them out

911
01:05:42,559 --> 01:05:45,000
of a few bucks. Maybe you
don't remember mister, but we do.

912
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:47,920
When they do, you're gonna pay
for him. You all through. I'm

913
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,719
through Fisher, you're just starting.
I have nothing further to say. Gentlemen.

914
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,800
You can talk to my lawyer and
we'll give them your new address.

915
01:05:55,000 --> 01:06:01,199
Yes, County Jail. Suspects Wesley
Fisher and Raymond Breen were booked and transported

916
01:06:01,239 --> 01:06:04,719
to the County jail. Both of
them were positively identified by the victims.

917
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,960
Warrants were obtained for the three suspects, Norris, Fisher, and Breen.

918
01:06:09,519 --> 01:06:12,639
They were arraigned and held to answer
at a preliminary hearing on several counts of

919
01:06:12,719 --> 01:06:16,519
grand theft. During the next two
weeks and through the Christmas holidays, identical

920
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:21,159
complaints of bunco operations continued to come
in. Friends and relatives of lately deceased

921
01:06:21,199 --> 01:06:26,840
persons were still being victimized. The
gang's operations continued as usual. There was

922
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,599
only one change. The crime report
showed that a woman was now operating in

923
01:06:30,679 --> 01:06:34,760
the obituary racket along with the male
suspects. Christmas came and went on New

924
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,800
Year's Eve. Ben and I were
assigned to stand by duty. A few

925
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,599
minutes before eight pm, we got
a call from the county jail that Wesley

926
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:45,320
Fisher wanted to see us went to
the tenth floor of the jail interview room.

927
01:06:45,039 --> 01:06:47,719
Not going to take all the heat. They aren't just as deep as

928
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,320
I am. If they can't do
right by me, I'll square it up

929
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:55,039
myself. I'll tell you everything I
know or I had Fisher. What isn't

930
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,639
her name's Betty McGraw. She's the
one he'd been looking for. The whole

931
01:06:58,679 --> 01:07:00,880
idea was hers. She landed out, She got everybody together. It was

932
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,079
her show. Where can we find
her? Two thirteen Foster, Part Mon

933
01:07:04,159 --> 01:07:11,039
eight, Wesley Fisher gave a complete
statement of all his crimes and also implicated

934
01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:15,039
the other members. He told us
Betty McGraw was his girlfriend. She'd come

935
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:17,159
up with the idea for the obituary
racket. She gathered the men together for

936
01:07:17,239 --> 01:07:19,800
the job, and it had been
planned that she was to stay in the

937
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:24,280
background in case of trouble. She
would furnish aid to the gang members in

938
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,280
the form of bail, bond,
money, and lawyers. She received a

939
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,559
percentage of the take from each of
the gang members. We checked her through

940
01:07:30,679 --> 01:07:33,440
R and I. She had a
criminal history dating back eleven years we obtained

941
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:38,400
her mugshot. Ten thirty pm.
We went out to the address Fisher gave

942
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,280
us. Some maid answered the door. She told us that the McGraw woman

943
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,719
was not there, that she'd gone
to a New Year's Eve celebration at a

944
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:47,840
downtown hotel. Was eleven fifteen when
we got there. We identified ourselves to

945
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,840
the special officer at the hotel and
showed him the mug shot of Betty McGraw.

946
01:07:51,559 --> 01:08:00,400
He thought he'd seen her at the
main bar. We started looking back,

947
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,599
comand yeah, excuse me, please? Can I get through here?

948
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,639
Thank you? Sign? Excuse me? Said Joe. Oh, that's why

949
01:08:08,679 --> 01:08:11,159
I think we just groom. Okay, do you see her yet? No,

950
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,480
they dammed in there. I can't
see a thing. But wait a

951
01:08:14,559 --> 01:08:16,680
minute. Yeah, and you see
that at the end of the bar there

952
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,840
right and a black man. Oh
yeah, that's sure. Would you had

953
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:25,840
her through your day? Excuse me? All right? John? Right behind

954
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:31,960
you? What is your name,
Betty McGraw? Is your name Betty McGraw,

955
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:38,600
Betty mag I don't know? Yeah, yeah, please, I like

956
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:45,239
to see you outside where the party
is. Let's go, lady outside,

957
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,199
the boy outside? What do you
know? There was a bar outside.

958
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:53,399
Okay, Ben, come on,
Anny, I don't know you at all.

959
01:08:53,720 --> 01:09:06,279
I'm not going no use trying to
get through this. We'll have to

960
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:12,840
wait again. Well happy now hear
yeah, there you and maybe next year

961
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:19,439
we'll have it all. I know
why, No, it's crime when I

962
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:26,039
hear that song. No reason,
I just crime. Yeah, every year

963
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,319
I play it will ryme there,
no reason at all. You got one

964
01:09:30,359 --> 01:09:40,920
this year, lady. Come on. The story you've just heard was true,

965
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,119
only the names were changed to protect
the innocent. On March twenty eighth,

966
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:48,479
trial was held in Superior Court,
Department ninety three, City in County

967
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,399
of Los Angeles, State of California. In a moment the results of that

968
01:09:51,520 --> 01:10:03,399
trial, the remaining members of the
Bunco gang were apprehended and brought to trial.

969
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:08,000
All of them, including the gang
leader Elizabeth McGraw, were tried and

970
01:10:08,119 --> 01:10:12,000
convicted of grand theft. They are
now serving their terms in the state penitentiary.

971
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:23,279
You have just heard Dragnet a series
of authentic cases from official files.

972
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,279
Technical advice comes from the Office of
Chief of Police W. H. Parker,

973
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:35,880
Los Angeles Police Department. Fatima Cigarettes, the best of all long Cigarettes,

974
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:45,159
has brought you drag det portions transcribed
from Los Angeles, Coming Up with

975
01:10:45,399 --> 01:11:00,720
the People, then the screen Director's
Playhouse on NBC Come Back. I caughtic

976
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:05,800
ending and I think that they make
it even more interesting when they brought it

977
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:12,000
to television. What are your thoughts
on the episode, Jim and the way

978
01:11:12,079 --> 01:11:18,399
that the scam was portrayed. I
liked the episode and the again, it's

979
01:11:18,399 --> 01:11:24,119
a morality play. I have heard
that when it went to television that Jack

980
01:11:24,199 --> 01:11:30,399
Webb told people who came on to
play different roles to not act, hit

981
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:34,159
their marks, say your lines,
but don't act. And if you listen

982
01:11:34,199 --> 01:11:40,720
to drag Net, that's what it's
about. And so it's that characteristic style.

983
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:45,840
In some ways. The Trent character
in the early earlier podcasts or the

984
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:50,800
earlier show we listened to is like
Jack Webb, They're straight down the line,

985
01:11:51,039 --> 01:11:58,000
no nonsense and that sort of thing. The one here I particularly liked

986
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:03,439
was how they bring in an ex
criminal to be part of it, and

987
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:08,439
that's part of the morality play.
You show that people can be rehabilitated.

988
01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:14,399
And there was one line in there, well it's the other way, but

989
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:19,199
nevertheless it's it was just classic noir. Yeah, yeah, it really was

990
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:26,800
now a lot of this episode centered
around things like newspaper obituaries, and then

991
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,800
you know, some of the gifts
were things that, you know, while

992
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,560
not unheard of, are a little
bit less common today, like watches and

993
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:41,560
stationary sets. Are there any updated
and methods and practices for this sort of

994
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,680
scam that go on today? And
are there new variations of this scam that

995
01:12:46,359 --> 01:12:51,239
we're seen today, similar to the
obituaries racket. Yeah. One of the

996
01:12:51,359 --> 01:12:58,479
newest ones has to do with gold
bars, is that somebody from another country

997
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,399
says, I need cash, but
I have these gold bars, and there

998
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:08,680
were X number of dollars and I'll
tell you, if you'll give me three

999
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:13,479
quarters of the value of these things, then I'll take that cash and use

1000
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:15,600
it to get home or whatever it
is they want to do. Uh.

1001
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,039
And there happens to be a store
nearby that sells gold bars, and who

1002
01:13:19,119 --> 01:13:23,640
knew one could go out and buy
gold bars. They're miniature ones, but

1003
01:13:24,319 --> 01:13:29,920
they're there. So that's that's taking
a part in there. Uh, there's

1004
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:34,159
all there's always the oh, this
just fell off the pickup truck thing or

1005
01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:42,319
off the loading truck, and I'll
sell you an Apple phone for you know,

1006
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,560
one hundred dollars or something like that
that's been around for a while.

1007
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:55,079
There's all kinds of scams that happen, particularly around grow convenience stores, where

1008
01:13:55,239 --> 01:13:58,880
people have the chance while they're pumping
gas or something for somebody to come up

1009
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,560
to them and offered them something that's
too good to be true. And as

1010
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,600
the old saying goes, if it's
too good to be true, it's probably

1011
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:13,239
not true. Now. I think, particularly in this episode, that the

1012
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:20,920
way that Betty's gang was able to
exploit this was by taking advantage of people's

1013
01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:29,159
just general expectations that you know,
nobody is going to come up to a

1014
01:14:29,319 --> 01:14:32,880
grieving widow and try and pull something
and pretend on that. Do you think

1015
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:38,720
people are more wary of at least
these sort of these sort of cons that

1016
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,159
we had portrayed in the episode than
they might have been in the past.

1017
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:47,800
You would think so, and that, especially in doing scams and cons news,

1018
01:14:48,359 --> 01:14:55,239
I am constantly amazed at how naive
a lot of people are, or

1019
01:14:55,319 --> 01:15:00,000
how big a hearts they have a
scam that always seems to be going around.

1020
01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:03,279
Somebody calls in and says, I'm
from the government, I'm from law

1021
01:15:03,359 --> 01:15:09,800
enforcement. I need you to withdraw
X number of hundreds or thousands of dollars

1022
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:13,479
to your account and give it to
our agent. We'll use it as bait

1023
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,399
and then you'll get the money back. People constantly fall for that. In

1024
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:25,319
fact, one woman who is a
reporter for a financial publication recently got taken

1025
01:15:25,399 --> 01:15:29,239
for fifty thousand dollars that way.
And she should know better. I mean,

1026
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:32,520
she covers the news all kinds of
criminals. She should have seen this

1027
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:36,600
coming, and she's been very open
about it because she knows she was a

1028
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:44,600
fool and went for it. And
the other thing I'm seeing recently has to

1029
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:50,640
do with internet scams against municipalities and
counties. That sort of thing is they'll

1030
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:57,800
put in a bug that freezes their
computers and then holds it for ransom or

1031
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,159
The other thing with it is that
they'll call up and say, I'm your

1032
01:16:02,279 --> 01:16:09,520
vendor ABC Construction. We need to
change the ACCH number on the account.

1033
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:15,359
Now the ACCH number is what routes
it to a particular checking account, So

1034
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,319
oh yeah, we know the vendors. So they make the change, and

1035
01:16:18,399 --> 01:16:26,079
now all the payments go to the
scammer's account. And in the last week

1036
01:16:26,159 --> 01:16:32,079
I've heard of three communities that have
happened to involving taxpayer money and involving millions

1037
01:16:32,119 --> 01:16:39,159
of dollars. You would think communities
would have caught onto this by now and

1038
01:16:39,399 --> 01:16:43,640
taken the steps to protect themselves,
but they haven't. And it seems like

1039
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:45,439
it's going to go on. And
I've already got a show plan for it.

1040
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:54,000
Oh wow. And that one scandal
you or one scam you described just

1041
01:16:54,159 --> 01:17:01,600
before, was actually a subject of
a nineteen sixty seven Dragnet episode, The

1042
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:08,000
Bank Examiner. Yeah, the Bank
Examiner swindle. So it is an old

1043
01:17:08,079 --> 01:17:14,439
scam but apparently still working. So
oh, go ahead. No, I

1044
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:18,600
was going to say that scams are
not particularly new. They just change form

1045
01:17:19,079 --> 01:17:25,600
depending upon the technology and what's available
to them. How society runs. There's

1046
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:30,479
a great book out there called How
a Burglar Sees the City and it takes

1047
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:34,720
you through how a burglar looks at
things, ways to get in, ways

1048
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:40,600
to get out, that sort of
thing. So there's nothing new about robbery,

1049
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:45,199
you just how do you go about
it? All right, So,

1050
01:17:45,279 --> 01:17:47,760
as we get ready to wrap up, could you let us know the best

1051
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:53,880
way to find your podcast and to
find you on the internet, and also

1052
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:59,840
any specific scams you're going to be
looking into in the future. Let's see,

1053
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:06,119
I'm just finishing up season six and
that'll wrap in late May. The

1054
01:18:06,239 --> 01:18:13,039
next main season will be in September, and the news episodes will run throughout

1055
01:18:13,079 --> 01:18:16,479
the summer. To find me,
just go to Scamsincons dot com, so

1056
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:21,680
that's pretty easy, or any place
you get podcasts. Just type in scams

1057
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:25,840
and Cons and you'll see the logo
come up. It's bright yellow, it's

1058
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,520
kind of hard to miss, and
you'll see my ugly face on there pocketing

1059
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,680
a bunch of money that I just
took from somebody, or at least that's

1060
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,840
what I'd like you to think anyway. And so you're scamming us with the

1061
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:44,319
picture I am. I am absolutely
doing that. And then Instagram and Facebook

1062
01:18:44,399 --> 01:18:47,680
both have pages, and again,
just search for Scams and Cons and you'll

1063
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,640
be there. Well, thank you
so much, Jim. It was a

1064
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:54,640
pleasure having you on the podcast.
Now, before we go, I want

1065
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:58,359
to thank our Patreon supporter of the
day. Thank you to Philip, Patreon

1066
01:18:58,399 --> 01:19:02,600
supporter since June twenty twenty three,
currently supporting the podcast at the rookie level

1067
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:06,680
of two dollars or more per month. Thank you so much for your support,

1068
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:10,279
Philip, and that will do it
for today. If you're enjoying the

1069
01:19:10,319 --> 01:19:15,039
podcast, please follow us with your
favorite podcast software. We will be back

1070
01:19:15,079 --> 01:19:18,359
tomorrow with an episode of the Adventures
of the Falcon where I'm ashamed of my

1071
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,680
past. I don't see why you
have no criminal record that the police can

1072
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:26,800
discover. This was your first offense, always the first time for everything when

1073
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:30,359
it goes deeper than that creaming.
You weren't hot pressed for cash? EI

1074
01:19:30,359 --> 01:19:31,760
did? Oh, I don't know. I went through your room, found

1075
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,520
this bank book there and give you
a license to go through my stuff.

1076
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:39,720
Police. Seven thousand bucks in that
account, Well, maybe that wasn't enough

1077
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,600
for me. I certainly couldn't hope
to pick up more at a very express

1078
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:44,520
company. And fella can try,
you know, I know, but you

1079
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:46,119
didn't have your heart on it.
The DA showed me the gun they took

1080
01:19:46,119 --> 01:19:49,000
away from me up there. Yeah, yeah, that thing couldn't hurt a

1081
01:19:49,079 --> 01:19:51,960
fly. The firing pin was filed
all the way down. You're not of

1082
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,520
your mind fulcon. Don't tell me
that I saw the gun. But if

1083
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,680
the pen was shut, I didn't
know about it. You don't think I'd

1084
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:00,520
do anything as silly as that.
I think you're doing something silly. You

1085
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:04,119
look, Cramer, you better start
talking unless you level with me. They're

1086
01:20:04,159 --> 01:20:08,039
really going to pop it to you. Why don't you mind your own business?

1087
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:10,560
Can I help it? If I'm
nosy? Ll maybe this will kill

1088
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:15,720
you? What's going on in now? In the meantime, send your comments

1089
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,520
to Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot
net, follow us on Twitter at Radio

1090
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:24,439
Detectives, and check us out on
Instagram, Instagram, dot com slash Great

1091
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:29,520
Detectives from Boise, Idaho. This
is your host, Adam Graham signing off.