Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This
is your host, Adam Graham. If you have a comment, email it
to me Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net. Follow us on Twitter at
Radio Detectives, and check us out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com,
slash Great Detectives. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your
favorite podcast software. Well, this is a special Old Time Radio Cons episode
and we have a guest with us, Jim Grinstead from Tennessee. Jim,
thanks for joining us today. Oh it's a pleasure to be here and I'm
looking forward to talking about these two radio shows. They're great. Well,
thanks so much. Jim spent forty years as a journalist and is now the
host of these Scams and Cons podcast. We met in January at podcast and
I saw a great opportunity for a crossover. I'm not a specialist or an
expert in most of these sort of crimes that are great Detectives investigate, but
I've researched a bit and know how to track down information. But getting perspective
from someone who's got quite a bit of knowledge in scams would be really insightful.
Plus, it's also a nice way to warm up for doing Racket Squad
on our Video Theater podcast later on this month. So we'll be bringing you
two scam related old time radio detective programs and we'll chat about them and also
talk about the Scams and Cons podcast. The first episode we're bringing you is
one of my favorite series that we only have a few episodes of. It's
Easy Money, nineteen fifty four series originating in New York and starring Larry Haynes.
One interesting fact that I didn't learn about at the time we were doing
it the first time is that this was actually a reboot of an old Chicago
series. I discovered this while researching the career of Bob Bailey that Easy Money,
featuring the character of Mike Trent, was actually created for Chicago Radio in
the early forties. Bailey didn't play the lead, but he had a recurring
guest part in the series. At any rate. Here from that New York
series from November fourteenth, nineteen fifty four is the episode of Easy Money Galloping
Ivories. The National Broadcasting Company presents another program in a new series exposing the
inside secrets of gamblers, racketeers, and con men. It's called easy money.
Easy money. There's no such thing as easy money. Mike Trent,
the ex magician turned rackets detective, is an expert on easy money schemes,
gyps, frauds, and swindles. Tonight he blows the lid off of one
of the vicious gambling rackets that's being worked in this country year after years.
This one's called galloping ivories, and here's Mike print to tell you about it.
Thank you, Bill. The good professional gamblers are so used to trimming
their victims that sometimes they get impatient. They see a chance for a fast
cleanup, and they jump at it, especially if they feel they've got a
soft touch for their prey. My story tonight is about a big operator got
mixed up with some kids. It came mighty close to reckon their lives.
It opens in the back room of one of the suburban gambling clubs, where
the boss's right hand man had just brought in his report of the night's receipts.
Nice night, Sophie, that's the biggest take we've had in three weeks.
Yeah, only look, Gunner given this kid, junior Alvin Sky high
credit. That don't seem so sharp. No, how much did he lose
tonight? Eight hundred and twenty bucks. All we got is this little piece
of paper eight twenty eh that makes seven thousand, one hundred and sixty dollars
all together. Yeah, I'll take all that kind of paper I can get,
Gunner. How you gonna collect his? Old man said the last time
he settled up, he wasn't paying any more. Crap game, that's for
Junior. I know, old man Alvin ain't the kind of guy we will
stand for. Muscles. Don't worry. I'm not planning to put any heat
on Junior's daddy. You I don't get it. That's fine, Sophie.
If you don't get it, Junior won't either. You and young a wonner
about on a par on brain. Look, boss, you don't need to
get next. Don't listen, Sophie. I'd like to run that. Junior.
L want to count up to about fifteen thousand dollars? You mean fast
fast? Give the kid a break, let him double up, get him
to shoot the works trying to get eaten. You're gonna let him get even
now? What do you think the minute the bell gets up to fifteen?
Grand teley kid? I want to see him. Well, if you say
so, I do say so, and don't scare him. Be nice to
it. I should be nice to a dumb phony. You owes us all
that door or what? So? I'm playing for big steak Soapy. Fifteen
thousand dollars is just my first roll. Okay, Gnner, you're gonna roll
like that. Be sure you're throwing your own dice, Soapie. When I
gamble, I never take chances. Well, mister Irwin, I haven't seen
you for a long time, have it chare? Thanks? Your dice man
said that you wanted to see me, Gunner. If it's about money,
money, what's that? Your credit's always good for a few hundred dollars my
gambling club Jr. Thanks. I know your father gives you a nice allowance,
and I know you're the kind of fellow who thinks a gambling dead is
important. You're a gentleman. Thanks again. For dollars doesn't mean any more
to you than it does to me. If you don't have it, I
know you will get it. I've been having a lousy run of luck lately,
Gunner, but it's bound to change sooner or later. I never worry
much about gambling low. That's one of the things I like about you,
Junr. Wow, but you can run up a bill of fifteen hundred dollars
without batting an eyelash. Yeah. Sure, you're a natural gambler, A
smart kind of a gambler. Why I haven't even checked on your account?
Fine, by the way, Jr. How does your account stand? Why
I've been having rotten luck, Gunter? Well that's what you told me.
Wow, I'll rotten. I owe you fifteen thousand dollars fifteen that's an awful
lot of money, Junieah, I'm a little surprised. I'll pay off.
Don't you worry. I never worry about anybody paying off. Let's uh face
facts. Where will you get fifteen thousand dollars? Wait, I'll get it
where I'll borrow it. You couldn't borrow fifteen bucks? Well it'll take a
few days, of course. Bracker up your lips more. When you're whistling
the dark kid, I give you six months. You couldn't raise the money
anyway short of killing your old man. You've been playing me for a sap
and I'm getting sore. You said I could have all the credit I wanted.
You let me want shut up the anything. I hate it to a
whiny loser. I'm not whiny. You keept right on tumbling up until you
found yourself on a spot. I'm not in a spot. Oh no,
well guess again, jun, Yeah, you're in a real spot. What
do you mean I run this gambling club to make money. Maybe that never
occurred to you. If I let one looser welch on me get by without
paying, I quit making money. I said I'd pay. I have a
couple of pretty fair ways to collect, kid collect or else you wouldn't.
Oh, don't lay any odds in that one kid. And you're in a
place like mine, you'd be surprised. What you dad? What do you
want me to do? Well, now you're talking sense, Well, you
run around with a pretty speedy bunch of kids. You want me to steer
some of my friends to your club. I wouldn't have them cluttering up the
place, but I'd like to meet a few of them outside. What do
you mean, from what I read in the papers, you're quite a party
boy. Well, well, I like parties too. I'd like to be
invited to a few parties of yours. I don't get it. You and
I are going to be partners, Junior. We're gonna palle around together.
You introduce me as a friend who's just come to town. We start a
few little five dollars crap games. I still don't get the idea. You
can't make up fifteen thousand dollars in a five dollar game? Did you ever
see a five dollar crap game? Stay in that class. You started playing
here with dollar chips. You owe me fifteen grand, get me the suckers.
I'll get your fifteen thousand back and a lot more. Besides, I
couldn't do that to my friends. Oh no, I'll bet you could,
Junior. And what's more, I bet you will. I'll bet you two
to one. I want to take me? No, I guess not.
It looks like they're your dice. So Gorman was of your party. That's
the funny part of it, mister Trenty was. Everybody liked him, and
he didn't even suggest a crap game. I suppose you did, yes when
he gave me the high sign. And I'll bet Gunner Gorman was lucky,
wasn't he? Well? Not at first? Oh no, no, not
while you were shooting for five dollars A roll. I suppose not. The
game couldn't have been crooked, mister Trent. They were my dice. But
Gorman knows something about the game. I don't know how much did he win
five thousand dollars? He said it'd cut my loss to twelve five hundred because
we're partners, and I get credit for twenty five hundred. He's getting a
friend's a chance to get the money back, of course. Oh yes,
he put on a good act like he was embarrassed at taking their money.
Sounds like a very clever operator. He's taking a hotel room and the rest
of the crowd think he's just in town for a few days. He's throwing
a party at the hotel tonight to give them a chance to get even.
Well, just where does this concern me? Well? I may be a
heel. Everybody seems to think so, even Gorman. At least. I've
been a prize sap. But I'm darned if I'll double cross my friends.
You've already done that, haven't you. Well I was scared, I guess,
and there didn't seem to be anything else to do until I saw Gunner
Gorman take their money because they trusted me. Well, what do you expect
me to do about it. Well, I may be dumb, but I
don't think Gorman's on the level. If he is, I'll go to Dad
and take my medicine, whatever it is. But if he isn't playing fair,
I'd like to catch him. From what you've told me about him.
Gorman will be rough if he finds that you're double crossing him, as well
as everybody else. I guess I had that coming to me. All right,
Well, it's nothing to watch your laugh coming up. Gorman discovers you're
trying to trap him. I thought it was your business to catch crook at
gambler's racketeers. Oh it is, it is. But there's one type of
gambler I dislike almost as much as the crooks, and you're that type.
Me. True people will get a big thrill out of hobnobbing with dirty,
cheating criminals until their charming friends take them and then come crying for help.
But I'm not crying for myself. I can't let him rob my friends on
my safe. I don't even know that the man's a crook. He wouldn't
need to be, you know, to win, so surely and certainly,
Oh, Gorman, knows the dice ods backward and forward. He knows his
chances on every roll of the dice. He could play percentages and win the
sooner or later, and the most honest game in the world. He'd clean
them out because dice is his business, and he knows his business. Went
five thousand dollars in one little look. There's no rougher, tougher, faster
form of gambling ever been invented. One flop of the dice, he can
make more money than a whole evening of poker. Five thousand dollars would make
me think Gorman was holding back one of my best friends, Marge. Terrence
lost fifteen hundred of it. That makes me feel worse than anything else.
She well, I'm sort of crazy in it. Wait a minute, give
me There were girls in this dice game and will be in the next one.
Yes, mister trend, that's why i'd appreciate your help. Well,
I won't take the case to help you with your friends. You all need
a good spanking when you need help. But you will take the case.
Yeah, I'm one condition. What's that. It's understood. I'm doing it
strictly to put Gorman in his place. There's nothing swell about it. You
have a revolver Gosh, no, i'd be scared to death. Why you're
going to be scared because you'll be carrying one, but why you might need
it. You've crossed up your dad and he's taken it. You've crossed up
your friends. They don't know it. They wouldn't do much about it if
they did. But if Gonna Gorman ever friends, you're double crossing him.
You think he'd get tough. Well, I think there's undoubtedly a very good
reason for his nickname being Gonna. I don't know why you're feeling so big
about winning five grand at a party. The joint does better than that most
any night were you're going to meet some nice people at the party, Sopie.
Me listen, God, I hadn't I told you, Sophie, you're
gonna be my butler this evening? Me cotton praise the sandwiches around. Look,
bus I stood for a lot, but I want it's a chance to
see the elite a play, Sophie. I suppose you want me to be
loaded down with fake dice, like a old copy of the Police Cascente.
Oh, don't be naive, Sophie, don't be h We won't use odd
dice. You kidding, will bring their own dice. These are respectable people,
Sophie. I never see the guy so respectable. I trust his dice.
You gotta be sure of win an injury. Oh when don't you worry
your little brain about that? You ain't no dice, mccannics. I don't
have to be not with a thick pile rug on the floor of our hotel
suite and with a good thick pad beneath it. Huh, listen, Gunny,
you wouldn't give him your blanket roll? No, why not? You
couldn't get away with any where. Crap shooter in the country doesn't know about
the soft roll. Not dealing with crap shooters, Soaphie, I'm playing with
wealthy no goods who want to thrill. I have so much money. The
only kind they'll show any interest in is easy money. I'll be disappointed if
I don't win fifty thousand dollars tonight. They'll come back and back. This
is just a start. You'll have to give Junior album half the profits,
won't you. Oh you need a head cleaning, Sophie. Ah to tonight.
My partnership with Junior is dissolved. Well can you do that? He
might squawk. He wouldn't. There he lets these SAPs know anything. They'll
find out he was working with May helping play them for suckers. You think
he'd do that. We'd be coming around here with the sun still out.
We'll get the door find out. Oh hell, lord, Johnnie, hi
gunna say? I thought i'd better warn you there may be trouble tonight.
Oh ah, listen, bright boy, there's any trouble, you know who'll
wind up with it, don't you? I Yeah, that's why I thought
I should tell you. All right, what's up? You remember Marge Terence,
the girl lost so much money? How could I forget her? Well,
her brother found out about it, and he's kind of a hot head.
You don't say, well, what about her brother? Well, he
blames me for letting Marge lose so much money, and he threatened me.
Threatened. Yeah, how he said, unless I brought him to your party
tonight, he beat me up. He wants a chance to win that money
back for Marge. Man, just when you get to thinking Christmas is five
or six weeks away, here comes Santa Claus. Don't be too sure,
Tim Terrence has a reputation for being awfully lucky. Oh, I like him
lucky. The rest of the crowd's going to the theater just as they'd plan
and then dropping in here afterwards. But Marge's brother, Tim's his name.
He wanted to come up here earlier with margin me just can't wait, mister
Gorman. I I know you think you're pretty hot with the dice, but
I'm warning you. Tim Terrence is plenty lucky. Well, maybe his luck'st
for a change. Bring him around. The earlier the better. I don't
say I didn't warn you. I won't you. Yeah, I won't say
a thing except thanks. Oh, mister Gorman, I think you're butler or
ballet or whatever. He is is a character in the world. Did you
ever find him? I picked him up in a rough and rugged gambling joant,
Miss Terrence. He's a real authentic type and such a wonderful name.
Sophie, all right, cut it off. I haven't met mister Gorman yet.
Oh, pardon me. This is Marge's brother, Gunner Tim Terrence.
Ho. Do you know you folks are a little early? Yeah, your
march told me how you took her money last night. Didn't have very good
line. Sure it was lucky, Timmy, be nice now. I don't
like cracks like that, Tarran, Well, I don't like having my sister
Marge lose fifteen hundred dollars either. Oh, tim be yourself. I can
afford you. He doesn't know a thing about the game. Shooting craps with
hers like taking pennies out of a baby's piggy luck, Terrence, I didn't
ask her into the game. The game wasn't even my idea. She lost
money doesn't mean anything to me. I'm giving her every chance the world to
get it back. You better be careful about your insinuations. Well you sound
very noble, mister Gloman. Yeah, you're a great guy, all right,
taking money away from a girl who doesn't even know what the game is
all about. There's some boss you want me to give this bird of brams.
I stay out of this, Sophie. I suppose you're quite a crap
shure to yourself, mister Terrence. You bet, I am. Oh,
he's simply wonderful. He's won money from real professionals. You don't say he
talks to the dice. He says the craziest things about fever and picatur and
new shoes, and go ahead to me tell them some of the things I
think I've heard him. Lady, Eh, you're a real hot chop crop
shooter. Had enough to cool you off, and you need to be taught
a lesson. You think you could do it? Huh? You bet I
can. I just as soon take your money as your sister. I just
bet you would. Well, it looks to me like there's only one way
to settle this. Oh yeah, sure, with the dice, you and
Tim, But I want to play too. You stay out of this much.
I'm gonna get Gorman a lesson he needs. I'm not in the habit
of carrying dice around with me. It just happens. I got some in
my pocket bus here. I'll just take a look at those. If you
don't mind, Oh sure, go right ahead, look him over all.
You like you think I'm a crack Huh. I'm reserving my opinion. Give
him the sincred test if you want to go ahead. The sinker test.
Isn't the terminology of this game fascinating? I love it? What does it
mean? The sacred test means, lady, that you drop the dice in
a tall glass of water. Let him sink to the bottom. I can't
imagine why anybody would drop dice into a glass of water on a counter.
You can tell that way if the dice is loaded. If the same points
come up every time you drop them, well they are loaded. Well he
seemed to be all right, of course there are Oh we'll have to clear
all this stuff off the table before we can shoot. Oh well, that's
too much trouble. Get down on the floor, on the rug. It's
more fun that way, on the rud. Well, yeah, sure,
okay, I'll bet ten dollars. Ah, ten dollars. I thought you
were such a red hot spoil. Well, before you get red hot,
Garman, you have to get warmed up a little, you know. Ten
dollars. Okay, big shins, you cavin go ahead, roll them out.
I won't even bother looking for the kind of money. Ohm, But
twelve the highest point you can make that ought to be worth something. That's
box cars. You get many of them, you ain't going to be traveling
in style. Another tenman, Yeah, cavied, big shins. Six deuce
from the kata. All right, comme on show the folks. You know
you're arithmetic let's make the point with a five three shake rattle rule two and
two is four. That's half of what you're apping. We'll get the rest
of it this time. March and six deuce right back. Okay, I'll
let the twenty ride six two. But Timmy, you said you'd make the
eight with a five to three. Does it come this way? I thought
you wanted to get your sister's fifteen hundred back. We've been going half an
hour and I'm seventy bucks ahead, And that's why we'll shoot all night and
nobody will get anywhere. Well, I Dice haven't gotten hurt for me yet.
I can tell yeah, Well, I'm tired of this paneatic stuff.
Maybe your sister's ready to shoot for some real money. You'll keep out of
this much. You're not gonna win her money back for this way. Your
sister makes you look like a piker. All right, all right, if
you feel that way about it, go im and I'll tell you what I'll
do. I'll shoot the whole fifteen hundred she lost all in one roll.
Oh, Timmy, that's a lot of money. Put it up, big
shot. Well suppose you cover it too. It's miney, I've got it
covered. Don't worry, go ahead shooting, Oh, Tim, how wonderful?
A seven that wins? Yeah? Something tells me, well, I
guess that was all I needed. Now I'm getting hot. I'll let the
three thousand ride. Well, good cover, But boss, will you stay
out of this? Twenty five hundred, three thousand? Go ahead, roll
them out here? You bet all right? Be good to Papa. Dice
for three thousand, nice big dollars. Be alert, Dice, Come on
news, Oh too bad? A five fee the good hot Dice. Let's
five right back a bank account waiting for money, little old easy five.
Come on, Dice eight five deuce five for Papa. Just one little five
is all I ask scroll. Oh, I'll get closer than that. Come
on, I'll be good, Dice five. So I let the six thousand
ride. Yeah, covered, bright boy, shut up your covered terrance shot
okay, Dyce, let's seven eleven. It's time to break the monotony.
Right high, wide and handsome on a way of prosperity. Dice. Oh,
I'm sorry, Marge. I said i'd make an eleven, and it's
a seven. But that wins, Tim, Boss, you're to call this.
You don't keep your mouth shut. You mean he's doing something crooked.
I've been watching and I don't see anything. You wouldn't. Is somebody insinuating
I haven't said a thing. Bright boy, you're letting the twelve thousand rods.
If you can cover it, I can cover a lot more than that.
Sonny, get the yell other bag out of the bedroom soaping bus.
This is your thing, but cape still soap you when you get the bag.
Okay, Timmy, I think this is perfectly marvelous. And it's so
honest too. What he told you how good he was before he started taking
your money? Right? All right? They yeah, bright boy? You
think I'm gonna run short of money? Look it over what there's a fortune
in that bag. Ah, anybody who's good enough to take it away from
me can have it if they take it honest? Is that it crack?
Oh? No, I'm not saying a thing. You twelve thousands? Covet?
Go ahead? Roll them out. Nothing won't give me more pleasure,
mister Gorman, What would you like? What do you mean? What would
I like? A point or a natural? Oh, don't be so smart.
Just go ahead and roll all right, if that's you feel about it,
Okay, tim aren't you forgetting something? You aren't talking to the dice.
Oh well, I don't have too much. With twenty four thousand dollars
on the line, I don't want to disturb the dice. I'll just roll
them out like this. You see, you win a four and a three,
A beautiful four and three. Prettiest little dice faces I ever saw in
my life. Just look at their eyes, all seven of all right,
save the comedy. You ain't shut up, all right, Terrence, You've
had your fun. What do you mean? I just wanted to see how
far you'd go with it? What are you talking about? You think I'm
a sap? You've been giving those dice the old blanket roll? What does
he mean to you? He knows what I mean, all right. I've
been watching him. He's been using a blanket roll every time. I don't
see what you mean. Well, it looks like you'll have to tell them.
I want to tell them, all right. On any soft surface,
like a bed, or a blanket or a rug of this kind, the
dice roll in a straight line if you hold them right, you say here
like this, What difference does it make whether they roll in a straight line
or not? The difference between winning a fortune and depending on luck. I
don't get it. I don't either. Oh, that's because you're dopes.
You hold the dice side beside in your hand. On the first roll,
with the six on one dice facing an ace on the other. You see
the two faces against each other. There isn't a chance the world are rolling
a deuce or a twelve, and the odds are two to one in your
favor coming up with a seven. But you might explain the rest of it
to him, goodman. On the off chance that you roll a point,
the faces of the dice you hold against each other determine how you'll make the
point. You see the dice roll over and over, but not side,
So you admit you were using the blanket roll. Well, I never said
I wasn't the boss rider to let him get away with it so long,
I'll tell you, soph because he didn't want to expose his own racket unless
he had to. He didn't want to let Junior and Marge see how they'd
been losing their money. Or you know all he am is, don't you?
When I lost the fifteen hundred, we rolled the dice on a rug
just like this, one smooth and so, and you had just a good
chance to roll him right as I did. The dice aren't crooked. You
got no beef? Should I pick up the dough bus? Why no,
Sophie, I'm really shocked at you. We aren't gonna have any strong armstuff.
Mister Terrence won the money he wanted the same way I want it from
these suckers. We we're just gonna roll a few more hands and well,
this time I'm gonna handle the dice. Mike. That, Sophie, he
has a gun. Didn't you expect he would have. You won't get hurt
missed if you play along with Gunner like he wants. Yes see, I
wouldn't dream a hijack and you all I want is the same chance you had.
You have twenty four thousand dollars on the table, and I cover it.
But this time I roll a dice. It's all fair square. That's
certainly making armed robbery refined. I give me the dice, mister Bley,
sure, and uh, you'll have no beef when I take it. Six
and and ace facing the same way you held them. Any complaints, Oh
no, no, no, got a complaint in the world for u twenty
four thousand dollars. I could roll naturals all day. Well, aren't you
really even gonna shake? Why bother? You and I both know how it
works. I'll just give him a Nyes gentle roll. He rode box cars?
Twelve? Hey, Hey, what's going on? Well? I don't
know, Gorman, there your dice? Want to shoot again? Yours in
your grip? Keeps? Tell just take care of the gun. Would you
like to shoot again? In a minute, I'm gonna give these dice a
few rolls. Yeah, well, well, well another twelve and another one.
I ain't seen so many box cars since I was riding my rods.
What have you done to these dice? Oh? The your dice, Corman,
you want to know how to handle him better than that. Maybe you're
nervous. Oh Betty isn't hot. It's just not his nice grab up the
money, Soapie. I thought you were keeping this technically on the up and
up. Oh you're lucky. I'm not having Sophie put a slug through.
You can come it, Soapie. When I even get my fifteen, You're
not gonna get out of here alive. I don't believe i'd take that money.
Soapy, because the minute your fingers touch it, I shoot Gorman.
I've got him covered you. Yes, yes, you want to risk a
lot of trouble, Sophie, go right ahead and pick up the money.
You see, Junior wouldn't have to worry. He has plenty of witnesses.
But you'd be in a slight jam. I imagine if there were any fireworks.
Give it to the kids, soaping. It's a pretty funny bluff,
Gorman. I've never seen a crooked gambling yet. Who'd risk gunplay? You
heard me? So do you think Sophie's gonna risk go onto the chair to
save your money? You heard me, Soapy. I'm sorry, boss.
The guy's right, what boss, I've just resigned. Yeah, mister,
you take the gun. I don't want to thank you. Sophy. You're
showing excellent judgment. You are to stay in your own backyard. That's what
you ought to do. That's so long, folks see it. The Junior
leave you, tump back, take your Gorman. Ladies present, no rough
talk. I'll rough talk you when I get out of here. And that's
for you. When you're dirty doubles talking, Marge, frisk them for weapons
while I'm falling and stacking this money? Would you? Oh wonderful, mister
Trent. You're a character, honestly, Junia, how much money do you
suppose you've lost to Gorman? Roughly about twenty thousand dollars altogether. But it
was on a regular dice table, sure, with six as flats. Huh,
a dice slaughtered, So you're bound to end up loser even if you
win a little once in a while percentage dice. You know all the answers
that, yes, I think so. He isn't carrying any guns, Mike,
Mike, you called him that once before, Sure, Mike Trent,
maybe you've heard of him. Oh yeah, I'll get you for this.
Hell when if you're not gonna get anybody, Goman, you can't make a
beef without exposing your own crookedness and fire with you. I'd see that nothing
happens to Junior. What do you mean? I mean? I'm making a
full report of this game to the police from now on. They'll be watching
you all the time. You're shoving me right out of top, that's right,
Any complaints? Look all those box cars I rolled, I doubt this
is all that. Well, you see, I had some ad hero fluid
and a sponge pinned inside my coat? You see, and hero fluid?
What are you talking about? Oh, you should keep up on new development
scoreman. It's a fluid to load dice while the game's in progress. Why
yes, it's a clear plastic fluid that hardens when it comes in contact with
celluloid. I gave the aces on those dice a good heavy coat of it
while you were telling me you were going to take over it. I didn't
see you. All all I had to do was get the fluid on my
fingers much and rubbed my fingers over the aces. The dice was so loaded
that when Gorman took them up, they'd turn even on a soft padded surface.
You're the dirtiest crook I ever wrote. No, no, no,
not a dirty crook, Gorman, an honest crook. Here's your twenty thousand,
junior, and you're fifteen hundred march. Oh and here's another thirty five
hundred to cover with your other friends lost junior. Gee. Thanks, But
what do I owe you for your your work? Mister Trent? Not a
cent? Junior? Somehow or other, I seem to have done all right.
And now here's a last word from the man who knows the rackets inside
out. Mike Trent, thank you well. I hope you like tonight's show.
It should help convince you that anybody can be easy money for crooked dice
game operators. And remember, not even the water test is infallible for crooked
dice. Any game can be rigged in fifty different ways, so the one
way to be safe is to keep out of the game. This is my
Trent signing off of the thought that you can never stay even with the game
when the odds are always against you. Remember, there's no such thing as
easy money. You have just heard another in NBC News series Easy Money,
exposing the inside tricks of the gambler's trade. Be sure to listen again next
week when Mike Trent shows how it's possible for you to be jypped on what
may look like a perfectly respectable raffle. It's called the lottery Racket. Featured
in tonight's cast where Larry Haynes as Mike Trent, with Wendy Drew, Peter
Fernandez, Ralph Bell, and Maurice Tarplin. Script by George B. Anderson.
Easy Money is produced and directed for air shows incorporated by Blair Wallacer.
This is Bill McCord. Join your favorite couple, Filamigee and Molly tonight on
the NBC Radio Network. Welcome back. I love mock trance style. Jim.
What are your overall thoughts on this episode? You know, I just
loved it. Like all crime shows on radio at that time, they're all
morality tales, they have to end up with whoever did wrong getting their come
up, and it's it's set among noir films that the detective whoever it is,
sees something that's wrong and has to set it right. And that's what
we hear at the end of that episode. You know, did he want
money, did he want payment? No? Peace? Set something right and
thought he came out of it pretty well, Yeah, because that that was
his whole thing, is just exposing the rackets and cons of the day,
as that was such a big focus as you know. Also we see in
the TV show Racket Squad. Now, I was wondering our board rich kids
like we see portrayed in this episode particularly likely marks for scammers today. I
mean, I think in this case, it seems like it worked for the
gamblers because they have money, they have little life experience and not a whole
lot of sense of responsibility. You know, I think it runs to both
ends of the spectrum. Surprisingly, one would think that it would only be
one. But you get the rich folks and those are the more elaborate scams
that are pulled on them. Generally, the crew has someone that's known as
the roper, and it's their job to go out and to identify someone who
would make a good mark for the crew to work on and to apply whatever
scam they're using on. And then you're having the people at the other end
of the scale that are either poor or unsophisticated or just needy. And one
of the worst scams that I talk about is called the romance scam or the
Russian bride scam. It's somewhat known. And that's when the scammer gets into
the heart of the mark and convinces them they love them more than anything and
eventually progresses where they decide to marry when they've never met in person before.
So what you're catching people is at a weak spot. They're needing something to
fill a hole inside. So on the rich end of the scale, it's
probably greed, and on the edit of the scale, its need now one
thing that was interesting to me as a non dam blur is that they cheated
in a way that I wouldn't have caught onto. I mean, I think
most of us know from popular culture about loaded, diced and marked cards,
but there was none of that there, you know, just a rug roll.
What are some other kinds of sneaky ways that con man will use in
these sort of gambling cons. Well, now you've gone to my heart on
one con called the three Card BONDI and I don't know if you've heard about
that or not. It's played loosely in big cities and primarily in New York.
It's said to be the longest running con on Broadway. And the way
it works is that you have a person called a tosser who has three cards,
and the game is three card mody, follow the lady anythings like that.
One of them is a queen and the other two cards are say the
queen is a red queen, the other two or like black fives or something
like that. So it's pretty easy to spot the queen. In this case,
the people the marks self identify. They come up and look at the
game and they can always see where the queen is. So in that sense,
they are seen as someone who can be brought in. Now, let
me take you a second to tell you about this crowd that's around the table.
Now, when I say table, is generally a box, a cardboard
box, and it appears that all kinds of different people are watching and playing.
Some of them wins, some of them lose. But the Mark is
out here seeing the Queen every single time, and he thinks I should be
able to beat this. These people must be idiots that they can't see the
queen. At that point, the tosser and don't say that in England because
it means something completely different there. You'll get your lights punched out. But
the tosser will say something like open the gate or something along that lines.
What they don't realize is that everybody around this table is a shill, and
they're dressed differently, they look differently, they talk differently. You would not
think they would know each other. And when the gate opens, they're kind
of moving the Mark toward the box where the tosser's working, and then they
close the gate behind them. If that person is with somebody, a friend,
a spouse, something like that, that person is edged off to the
side, so they influence what's going on. So they're doing this and they're
tossing things back and forth, and this guy finally says, well, I'll
bet a little money. So he puts down twenty bucks or whatever it is,
and he wins, and that's called the convincer. It goes on.
There comes a point where you have to make the sucker angry, and we
heard that in the tread episode on the Dice. They wanted to make the
guy so angry that he threw all his money down there and lost it.
And that's what happens in this game, is you get the mark to throw
all their money down there. They're angry with the tosser, they know they
can beat them, and that's when the cards get switched, and of course
there's no queen. The box folds up the cards or the money is taken.
The cards are gone, and they are out of there in nothing flat.
I'm told this game can clean someone out in about eight minutes. Wow.
So let's go ahead and talk a little bit about your podcast, which,
as we as, I think listeners can tell you know quite a bit
about this. Why did you start the Scams and Cons podcast? Since I
was a kid, I always had this fascination with heist films, and to
pull off a good heist you have to run a lot of cons in the
middle to make sure that you get the information and the people that you need
to pull it off. So I retired. I'm an old guy and I
started out in radio. I've always missed it, and I thought, well,
why not start a podcast? Everybody else has one. I should be
able to pull it off. Now. How often does your podcast come out?
And you've also been doing a series on people making themselves disappear? Could
you talk about that. Yeah, we come out the longer episodes come out
on the second and fourth Thursdays. I'm also doing a thing called Scams and
Cons News, which are scams that are more current, and that comes out
on the first and third, although I'm hoping to step that up this fall.
Our first five seasons have been about different scams and how they're run,
and in education we say we take people behind the scenes to show them how
scams are run and why people fall for them. And it occurred to me
that we're always looking at it and the goal is to look at it from
the criminals point of view, But what if we flipped it around and had
one person try to con the entire world, And so that was the premise
behind the Vanishing series. How do you pull off a con on the whole
world so that they think you're something you're not? And it sounds like fun,
but it is incredibly difficult to do now. I personally have been scammed.
I was scammed by my first employer, who ran a newspaper, and
I like to say we had a philosophical disagreement over whether you should pay your
employees. But have you ever been scammed? Oh? Yeah, I think
there's probably everybody's been scammed in one way or another. One of the ones
that sticks in my mind is that I'm leaving the road near my house to
get on the Interstate and there's a car pull over and the hood is up
and it seems that there's the engine is overheated, and there's two little kids
with this guy. This has all the elements of a scam on it,
just everything, But I'm a sucker. I pull over and ask what's going
on? He goes, Oh, I just need some matter freeze to get
back in here. My car's overheated. We're heading toward Knox Full and the
whole nine yards and I see those kids there and I just, you know,
I just go, well, what if this is real? And we
could talk later about how con artists get you to believe something that's not true.
But I said, okay, I'll buy you some Ada freeze. We'll
get you up and going and tell me how much, how many gallons you
need, and I'll go get them. And he says, oh, you
can just give me the money. I'll run up here at the convenience store
and buy it. And I said, no, I'm not going to do
that. I will buy you add A freeze, but I will not just
hand the money over to you. Well, he wasn't very pleased with that,
but told me, and so I went out and spent I guess about
sixty bucks on Adda Freeze and brought it back to him. So at that
point, he's either cursing me or he needed the add to freeze and was
going to get back on the road. I preferred not to stand around and
find out because I knew that probably one hundred percent I was being scammed.
But the thought of those two kids sitting there, and it's like, Okay,
I'd rather be a sucker than that ignores somebody in real needs. So
that and there was another good scam that was run on me. Oh I
ran it on myself. I should be honest about that. There's a scam
where somebody stands in a parking lot playing a violin and it's beautiful music,
just gorgeous stuff, and people want to give money and thinking, oh,
this person's out on their luck and that sort of thing. So i'm I
come up to this target store and typically the violin is plugged into an amplifier,
and sometimes frequently there's somebody else with them, a kid or somebody along
that lines, and the violinist is not playing at all from a cell phone
or something is being plugged into the amplifier and that's what's coming out. But
the con artist has learned how to memory the movements that go with the music,
all right. So I sit there and think I wrote a podcast.
So I got out my cell phone and went up and confronted him, and
of course he didn't speak English, and he wouldn't say anything to me.
I tried to get him to unplug the violin. He wouldn't do that,
so I just just kind of gave him trouble for a while to be honest
with you. And a couple of weeks later, so I'm in a different
parking lot in a different area, and what do you know, there's another
violin player. So I go up to the guy and do the same thing,
and he says, I'm no scammer. He pulls the plug out of
the violin and plays incredible music without the speaker. He'd studied for eight years
violin. He absolutely knew what he was doing. So I guess in that
case, the tables got turned and I got scammed. Well that's that's definitely
an interesting story. I'm kind of wondering if I was if you just revealed
to me that I got scammed. But I think because I just I gave
money to a violin player recently. But let's go ahead, and sorry to
bring that's your attention. But let's go ahead and we'll get onto our next
episode, which is going to be from Dragnet. It's one of my all
time favorite episodes from November twenty third, nineteen fifty. Here's the big Betty.
The story you were about to hear is true, only the names have
been changed to protect the innocent. Dragnet. You're a detective sergeant. You're
assigned a Bunco detail. A gang of petty swindlers is set up operations in
your city. They're experienced, cunning, they work fast. Your job get
them. Dragnet the documented drama of an actual crime. While the next thirty
minutes, in cooperation with the Los Angeles Police Department, you will travel step
by step on the side of the law through an actual case transcribed from official
police files, from beginning to end, from crime to punishment. Dragnet is
the story of your police force in action. It was Tuesday, December fourteenth,
was cold Los Angeles. We were working the day Watch out of Bunco
Detail. My partner's Ben Ramero. The boss is Captain McCauley. My name
is Friday. It was ten thirty five am when I got to Room thirty
eight Bunco Detail. Yeah, Gavin, sure, this is ms bergstram You
talked to one phone line now, Oh yeah, sure, this is my
partner searching Friday. How do you do? Glad to know you? Did
you care to sit down? Thank you? I was downtown so I thought
it'd be just as easy for me to come in and see you. Did
you bring those things with you? Miss Beerston. Here they are wristwatch and
a pencil set. She'll make him look nice, don't they on the outside.
Yeah, let me take the back off the watch for you. There
you can see for yourself. Searching m it's a junk, not worth fifteen
cents. Church me forty eight dollars for that watch. Said it was hostel.
He wasn't making any profit on it. Tell me he was doing it
cause he's known Harry so well. Watch on. He ran for day then
it stopped. How about the pen and pencil set? Man, this is
bad pens just a shell. Won't even write say with a pencil. I
paid him thirty dollars for them. It's engraving on the pen with love from
Harry. That's Harry's boy has engaged too. How the man got me interested
to start with? Came to my house and gave him to me the watch
and the panda pencil. Said Harry had ordered them his presents for me.
I just had to cry when he dropped them for Harry. When did this
man come to your home, Miss Percement? Yesterday morning? I guess I
should have been more careful, but I didn't think anybody would do a thing
like that. What kind of a story did he give you? Well,
he came to the door and told me his name was Spencer. He said
Harry had ordered these things his presence for me, and Harry told him to
delivered them to my house. Watched look beautiful in the case. I didn't
know anything was wrong. I see, Would you go on please? He
told me it was a special order, said Harry had written him from overseas
a week before. Harry was in the Marine Corps. You know well,
he said, he hoped Jim Engraving was all right where Harry wrote he wanted
it in his letter. I just couldn't take it, I cried. This
man. He pretended to be a close friend of Harry. Yeah, that's
why I showed him the letter, one from the Marine carp Harry being killed
overseas. When did you receive that letter, miss Preston? Two days before
on Saturday. Harry's name was on casualty list on Monday. Yes, I
understand. What did the man do when he showed him the letter? H
He sympathized with me there, he pretended to. I didn't think there was
any trick. I didn't think anybody who sat low pen and pencil set looked
a little cheap, but I wanted them no matter how cheap they were.
Harry's last present to me, That's what I thought. How did he approach
the idea of money? Well, when he was ready to leave, he
told me Harry ordered the things on credit. They didn't want to mention it,
but he wondered how I could get payment for the watch and the pen
and pencil. Well, he didn't show you ability an invoice listing the price
of the watch or the engraving that was done. I didn't want him bother
and Harry's some other father at a time like this, I borrowed some money
from my dad and paid him. Let's see, it's forty eight dollars for
the watch, thirty for the pen and pencil center. Yeah, he gave
me a phone number to call up the watch needed adjustment. When I found
the watch was a fake, I called a number. It was a Chinese
laundry. They didn't know anything about it. You haven't seen or heard from
this man since he left your house yesterday morning? No, did you describe
this man, boys, miss Bergstram, what he looked like closing this way?
What's right here? In this slipper paper. Sergeant, I wrote it
all out for you. Thank you. Well, you're not alone. If
that's any consolation. There's an army with a lot in Hollywood was cheated on
the same kind of deal last Friday. It's so cruel. You see a
dead person's name to cheat you, Yes, ma'am. How could anybody get
lower than that? They keep trying. Ben and I took missus Bergston's crime
report watching pen and pencils set were booked as evidence. In the past two
weeks, we received a half a dozen identical complaints from relatives or friends of
lately deceased persons. The swindler or con man, as he likes to be
called in this trade, gets the names of lately deceased persons from the obituary
column or the military casualty list in the newspapers. Then he fixes up some
cheap article of merchandise with appropriate engraving, and calls on the friends and relatives
of the deceased. He pretends to know nothing about the death of the person
whom he claims placed the order for the merchandise. In almost every case,
the friend or relative agrees to pay for the articles at some exorbitant price for
the con man. It's a lucrative racket for the public. A vicious one,
Wednesday, December fifteenth. Then and I looked up an informant, a
former con man, Henglo Fellas then business for two months during fine wait,
heng of it looks great, Judge, nice set a minus brabyll hotter and
start Los Angeles. That's why advertise, Hey, you're not. I think
that's too broad, do you? Oh? I don't think so, Judd.
You've got some nice equipment here, baby laundry. How'd you ever get
started? By law? Stap me up with the loan? Says you got
tired of me trying to sell him bum watches. Well it's a good break
for you, Jed. So you got a couple of minutes we'd like to
talk to you. You think come on back here? Okay, fine,
thanks? Yeah, I squared away, living a solid life. I'm bad
at all, you know. It surprised me. Do you ever see any
of the old gang, Jed? Not much? No sell the old drifters
looked me up now and I don't try to touch me. I'll go hey
old enough, Yeah, thank you? Okay, Fellas? What can I
do for you. Well, we'd like to know how close you got your
ear to the ground. Jed. There was a gang of bunks in town.
They're working hard. What pitch they're working the old bits casually lists.
But maybe you might be able to help us. I know how long have
been going, the last couple of weeks and half a dozen reports on him.
That's one thing they never could tap me for obituary record lows this record
there is. Can you do anything for us? I heard one little rumble
about it, or five guys in the corn mob. All right, we
know that, Jed. Where can we look for? You know my position?
I quit the game. I quit only contacts on macer when some of
the old boys come around for a touch. How much you heard about the
game? What I said? There's four or five of them out of Middlewest.
I think you got any idea at all where we could start looking.
Well, I can start checking for you. You nail any of them.
You haven't got to fund him before we can arrest him yet. Yeah.
Well, as I say, when I quit the game, I quit.
But maybe I can take a few soundings for you. Can't promise you anything.
I'm strictly on helping up with Okay, judge, you know where to
get in touch with us. Will appreciate anything you can do, and well
you help me plenty of times, Fellows, wouldn't hurt a bit to tab
that bunch. I'll walk out with you. Yeah. See, you've got
all the machines going, baby Londy business must be pretty good. Huh.
It's a step of commodity, Fellows. It's always need a fresh change,
just not Yeah, I look at this. Just look at the size of
it. Yeah. You ever see any small in your life? It's cute?
Huh Yeah, what is it? You kind of soakers? I think
let's see the label here right Yeah, mother Greg super soakers, good things.
They suld give me a wallet, you know. He reminds, well,
check the office while we're here, Ben, and I use your phone.
Jah, you got right over there on the wall. You gotta change.
Yeah, thank you. I have City Hall two five seven Buncle fugitive
Brian Joe Friday time anything doing? Yeah, Joe, I think we might
have a leader on those bunks working the habituary racking. What do you got?
He reached a woman in Highland Park. Where are you, baby laundry?
Oh well, it's a Missus Westerly. Her daughter was build in an
auto accident last night. They came around and sold a woman to watch her
daughter. Was supposed to order also a necklace and pen and pencil set for
two hundred and fifty dollars usual. Jim, did you talk to this missus
Westerly. Yeah, we took a report. The man's descriptions him all the
rest all matchub. What's the lead? She watched the man when he left
her house? Yeah. He got in a taxi cab ten thirty am.
While sergeants bryanton All already got out a broadcast on the suspect. Ben and
I drove to the offices of the cab company, where we contacted the special
agent. He helped us check the way bills for the preceding night. On
the way bill for cab two thirteen, we found the trip listed starting point
in the intersection nearest the Westerly home destination, a hotel on South Flower Street.
We went to the hotel and interviewed the desk clerk. From the description
we gave him, he identified the man as Fred G. Norris from Minneapolis.
At least that's the way he'd signed the hotel register the clerk told us
Norris wasn't in. We had him show us Norris's room. In his suitcases,
we found quantities of dime store costume jewelry, monogrammed dozen cheap wrist watches
and wallets, and handbags done in poor quality imitation leather, also a portable
engraving set. The clerk told us that Norris was expected back shortly. We
told him to say nothing to the suspect. When he arrived, we called
the office and arranged for a stake out at the hotel, and we drove
back to the office one PM. They told us Norris had been recognized from
his description and picked up by unit seventeen hour. On the way back to
his hotel. Shortly before noon, Ben and I joined Sergeants Ullery and Bryant
in the interrogation room, where they were questioning the suspect. They looked about
forty years old, white male American, about six feet tall, one hundred
and seventy pounds. They would admit nothing. Brian kept questioning him, You're
wasting our time on your own, Norris. Face it. You were playing
a rough game in your loss, now, how about it? You gotta
feel pretty silly when you find out you got the wrong guy. What do
you work for? Fred? You can do what you want about investigating me.
You're having a thing to hold me on. Isn't just wasting any more
time? You got that list of victims? Yeah, these are the ones
that tab Norris, thank you a couple more years, Joe. Thanks Jim.
Hello, Miss Burg's from there? Please? Oh, this is Sergeant
Friday, Miss Birks from Bunco Detail. Yeah, we picked up a suspect
we'd like see if you can identify him. It'll be alright if we send
a card for you right now. Right fine, thank you very much.
Bye. Look I can't sider all day. I have business to attend to.
Well, I have noises on the floe. Hello Miss Crolling there,
Please this Sergeant Friday calling Miss Crolling, Bunco Detail. Yes, ma'am that's
right. I'm sorry to disturb you, but we have a suspect and custody
down here. Yes, ma'am. Hy sergeant could you come down the City
Hall right away? Sergeant what you hold on just a minute? Please?
Thank you, Eah Norris your government. Fifty eight pm we informed the victims
that the special show up had been canceled. And We called in a stenographer
and had her take Fred Norris's statement. In addition to listing the crimes,
he committee also told us that there were six men in the Bunco gang besides
himself, and gave us the names and descriptions of each one of them.
He stated that they'd been operating in Los Angeles for the past four months.
Noris said that none of them had ever met the leader of their Bunco gang.
The only contact they had with the leader was through one of the older
gang members, a man with the name of Wesley Fisher. Before Norris was
taken a cent for jail for booking, he gave us the address of the
house where he had been living with the other gang members. Norris's information on
the suspects was checked through R and I. We got one make Wesley Fisher.
He had won prior arrest two years before on a grand theft charge,
but had been released for lack of evidence. Three fifteen PM, together with
Sergeants Ullery and Bryant and two men from Metro Squad, we drove out to
the address given us by Fred Norris. Turned out to be a neat looking
bungalow in the West Hollywood area. H that's good. Would you take the
front door, Joe? Yeah. You want to have Johnson and Brewer cover
the back of the place book, Joe, Morey and I will cover the
sound banks. Let's go met did here? Yes? Well no, ma'am.
We want to see the tenants want that's all. You are listening to
dragnet authentic stories of your police force in action. M Wednesday, December fifteenth,
four pm. We made a thorough check of the house which the sixth
suspects had just vacated. We found nothing that would help us. We talked
to the owner of the house where the suspects had been living. She told
us that she'd rented the place furnished to them about three months before. She
identified Wesley Fisher's mugshot, but she told us that he'd used the name of
Charles Wilder. She also recognized each of the other gang members from the descriptions
at Fred Norris had given us. She told us that while they were living
there, the men seemed to keep odd hours, and that they had a
car. She told us that she'd taken the licensed number of the car the
day the men moved in. The number was checked with DMV it was registered
in the name of Wesley Fisher ten o eight California Street. It's a transient
hotel. The manager told us Fisher had moved about nine months ago. Was
no forwarding address. We got out on all points. Bulletin on Wesley Fisher
requesting that all occupants in his car be held for investigation of grand theft.
Thursday, December sixteenth, eight am, Olore, Bryant, Ben and I
met with Captain McCauley. Were they getting all this junk? They're palming off?
Where's the sausag supply guy? We picked Norris ull Us. They brought
a good supply of it out with him from the Middlewest. That hotel room
Norris had downtown, they were using that for a warehouse. They didn't want
to keep this stuff at the house they were living in. How are they
hitting any possibility of stakeouts? No? Not Unless we cover every name in
the columns, you might have to try it. Something's got to be done.
Look at these two more this morning straight out of the obituary column.
Took one family for ninety dollars, another one for sixty. How about that
last run through the status office? Help you any they pose some more mugs
for us. We're gonna show them to the victims this morning. How about
this Norris, I think he's come up with everything. We were up talking
to him again at count of jail yesterday. They didn't have anything new.
Skiffing we dropped in at the Sheriff's bunko detail. They've got one new case.
Amo description comes close to one of the guys. The victim was the
father of a Navy flyer lost overseas. They sold him a gold watch chain
that his son was supposed to have bought him for a present, solid brass.
The sheriff's men got anything new, and we've been working pretty close with
him. Nothing new. Excuse me, uncle fugitive Captain McCauley, Oh yeah,
hold on you Friday, thank you, Yeah, Joe, there's judge.
Can you meet me out of my place? What do you got?
Name? Wesley Fisher mean adding to you? Eight thirty am, Ben and
I drove outman with Jet at his home, who was still in his bathroom
when he met us at the door. He told us he had an important
appointment downtown at nine o'clock and he was in a hurry. He talked to
him while he shaved hope your fellows don't mine. Can't miss this day flying
up some new business. You know. I'm sorry, Jed gread. Yeah,
I got to move fast on these things before they cool. You know,
we're to stay with us, Jed, what's the story? Well,
I don't know. That's worse. I brought Max called me this morning.
Remember my brother Max, didn't she No, I don't think so. I
watched the Pink Bad Barnes South May when you were in a senior the other
day. About those driftlies you want, I gave my brother a tumble on
it to'em keep an eye open. I am't a toll with oh yeah,
here you go, thanks, and they're all steamed up to would Max
come up with? Well, he's knight. Brought tend at the parrots,
you know. And last night he spoted a couple of guys at the bar.
I had some day or newspapers. Uh huh. They were sitting there
with the papers turned the obituary column, checking off names, writing on a
dresses. Max is pretty sharp that way. Spotted'em right off a lousy
razor case. Max know these too, many spotted No, not by name,
but he knew the one of them lived in the hotel next door.
At the bar and the hotel, nclar coming for a beer and Max asked
him about it. He tab one of the guys' west Fisher. Did he
have anything on the other man now? Clerk told Max he doesn't live at
the hotel, but spends a lot of time there with Fisher. Had he
seen Fisher and this other guy at the bar before? Yeah, Max says,
have been in before, got a lotshed up a couple of times.
Say it would it be okay to contact your brother at his home, Jed,
We don't wanna contact him at the bar. Yeah. Sure, thing
gets you a dressed. Soon as the finished it, he just moved.
I think I don't know. I hope I didn't get you guys out here
for nothing. We appreciated. Jed, looks good. It seems to fet
That hotel down there, it's a hang up. Con Man angles are all
there. Let's hope Fisher is. Eight fifty three am we arrived at the
hotel on South Main Street. We checked with a desk clerk who told us
that Wesley Fisher had room thirty seven. As far as he knew, Fisher
was in his room. We got a pass key from the clerk and went
up to room thirty seven, where we found Fisher and another man. He
identified himself as Raymond Breen, one of the gang members identified by Fred Norris.
We also found a small supply of cheap watches and pen and pencil sets
in Fisher's car was parked near the hotel was impounded. We took both suspects
back to the city Hall. We questioned them separately and the interrogation room.
Brien was first, but he refused to answer our questions. He was taken
back to the squad room and Wesley Fisher was brought in. Said down,
Fisher, thank you guess you know why you're here? Oh, I haven't
the least idea All right, then we'll show you, do you know Fred
Norris? Fred Norris name sounds a little familiar. Cat quite place it,
and he places you pretty well. He says he worked with you and bring
up till a couple of days ago. So yeah, says he lived with
you in that bungalow in West Hollywood. That's so no, that's Hollywood.
When was that two days ago? Fisher? Your landlady identified your mugs even
had the license number of your car. Prove, gentlemen, proves your lying
you and bring work together. You did work with noise your body one of
the filthiest rackets going. Gentlemen, you're making a bad mistake. Now there's
no mistake, Fisher, your picture has been identified about at least a half
a dozen victims. Now you can go on playing koy all you want,
but we can prove that the pen and pencil sets that you sold some of
the victims are identical with the ones we find in your car. I haven't
any idea what you're talking about. Believe me, that's truth. You wouldn't
know the truth if it followed you, mister. Now look, maybe you're
great at conning old men and young girls, but don't try to pass any
of it here just a moment, now you listen, you two bit thief.
I couldn't begin to tell you off of the rocking things you've been pulling
off in this time for the past three months. A young girl who lost
your boyfriend overseas, at widow out in Hollywood, the old man in Highland
Park who's wife passed away. You must have felt pretty sharp cheating them out
of a few bucks. Maybe you don't remember mister, but we do.
When they do, you're gonna pay for him. You all through. I'm
through Fisher, you're just starting. I have nothing further to say. Gentlemen.
You can talk to my lawyer and we'll give them your new address.
Yes, County Jail. Suspects Wesley Fisher and Raymond Breen were booked and transported
to the County jail. Both of them were positively identified by the victims.
Warrants were obtained for the three suspects, Norris, Fisher, and Breen.
They were arraigned and held to answer at a preliminary hearing on several counts of
grand theft. During the next two weeks and through the Christmas holidays, identical
complaints of bunco operations continued to come in. Friends and relatives of lately deceased
persons were still being victimized. The gang's operations continued as usual. There was
only one change. The crime report showed that a woman was now operating in
the obituary racket along with the male suspects. Christmas came and went on New
Year's Eve. Ben and I were assigned to stand by duty. A few
minutes before eight pm, we got a call from the county jail that Wesley
Fisher wanted to see us went to the tenth floor of the jail interview room.
Not going to take all the heat. They aren't just as deep as
I am. If they can't do right by me, I'll square it up
myself. I'll tell you everything I know or I had Fisher. What isn't
her name's Betty McGraw. She's the one he'd been looking for. The whole
idea was hers. She landed out, She got everybody together. It was
her show. Where can we find her? Two thirteen Foster, Part Mon
eight, Wesley Fisher gave a complete statement of all his crimes and also implicated
the other members. He told us Betty McGraw was his girlfriend. She'd come
up with the idea for the obituary racket. She gathered the men together for
the job, and it had been planned that she was to stay in the
background in case of trouble. She would furnish aid to the gang members in
the form of bail, bond, money, and lawyers. She received a
percentage of the take from each of the gang members. We checked her through
R and I. She had a criminal history dating back eleven years we obtained
her mugshot. Ten thirty pm. We went out to the address Fisher gave
us. Some maid answered the door. She told us that the McGraw woman
was not there, that she'd gone to a New Year's Eve celebration at a
downtown hotel. Was eleven fifteen when we got there. We identified ourselves to
the special officer at the hotel and showed him the mug shot of Betty McGraw.
He thought he'd seen her at the main bar. We started looking back,
comand yeah, excuse me, please? Can I get through here?
Thank you? Sign? Excuse me? Said Joe. Oh, that's why
I think we just groom. Okay, do you see her yet? No,
they dammed in there. I can't see a thing. But wait a
minute. Yeah, and you see that at the end of the bar there
right and a black man. Oh yeah, that's sure. Would you had
her through your day? Excuse me? All right? John? Right behind
you? What is your name, Betty McGraw? Is your name Betty McGraw,
Betty mag I don't know? Yeah, yeah, please, I like
to see you outside where the party is. Let's go, lady outside,
the boy outside? What do you know? There was a bar outside.
Okay, Ben, come on, Anny, I don't know you at all.
I'm not going no use trying to get through this. We'll have to
wait again. Well happy now hear yeah, there you and maybe next year
we'll have it all. I know why, No, it's crime when I
hear that song. No reason, I just crime. Yeah, every year
I play it will ryme there, no reason at all. You got one
this year, lady. Come on. The story you've just heard was true,
only the names were changed to protect the innocent. On March twenty eighth,
trial was held in Superior Court, Department ninety three, City in County
of Los Angeles, State of California. In a moment the results of that
trial, the remaining members of the Bunco gang were apprehended and brought to trial.
All of them, including the gang leader Elizabeth McGraw, were tried and
convicted of grand theft. They are now serving their terms in the state penitentiary.
You have just heard Dragnet a series of authentic cases from official files.
Technical advice comes from the Office of Chief of Police W. H. Parker,
Los Angeles Police Department. Fatima Cigarettes, the best of all long Cigarettes,
has brought you drag det portions transcribed from Los Angeles, Coming Up with
the People, then the screen Director's Playhouse on NBC Come Back. I caughtic
ending and I think that they make it even more interesting when they brought it
to television. What are your thoughts on the episode, Jim and the way
that the scam was portrayed. I liked the episode and the again, it's
a morality play. I have heard that when it went to television that Jack
Webb told people who came on to play different roles to not act, hit
their marks, say your lines, but don't act. And if you listen
to drag Net, that's what it's about. And so it's that characteristic style.
In some ways. The Trent character in the early earlier podcasts or the
earlier show we listened to is like Jack Webb, They're straight down the line,
no nonsense and that sort of thing. The one here I particularly liked
was how they bring in an ex criminal to be part of it, and
that's part of the morality play. You show that people can be rehabilitated.
And there was one line in there, well it's the other way, but
nevertheless it's it was just classic noir. Yeah, yeah, it really was
now a lot of this episode centered around things like newspaper obituaries, and then
you know, some of the gifts were things that, you know, while
not unheard of, are a little bit less common today, like watches and
stationary sets. Are there any updated and methods and practices for this sort of
scam that go on today? And are there new variations of this scam that
we're seen today, similar to the obituaries racket. Yeah. One of the
newest ones has to do with gold bars, is that somebody from another country
says, I need cash, but I have these gold bars, and there
were X number of dollars and I'll tell you, if you'll give me three
quarters of the value of these things, then I'll take that cash and use
it to get home or whatever it is they want to do. Uh.
And there happens to be a store nearby that sells gold bars, and who
knew one could go out and buy gold bars. They're miniature ones, but
they're there. So that's that's taking a part in there. Uh, there's
all there's always the oh, this just fell off the pickup truck thing or
off the loading truck, and I'll sell you an Apple phone for you know,
one hundred dollars or something like that that's been around for a while.
There's all kinds of scams that happen, particularly around grow convenience stores, where
people have the chance while they're pumping gas or something for somebody to come up
to them and offered them something that's too good to be true. And as
the old saying goes, if it's too good to be true, it's probably
not true. Now. I think, particularly in this episode, that the
way that Betty's gang was able to exploit this was by taking advantage of people's
just general expectations that you know, nobody is going to come up to a
grieving widow and try and pull something and pretend on that. Do you think
people are more wary of at least these sort of these sort of cons that
we had portrayed in the episode than they might have been in the past.
You would think so, and that, especially in doing scams and cons news,
I am constantly amazed at how naive a lot of people are, or
how big a hearts they have a scam that always seems to be going around.
Somebody calls in and says, I'm from the government, I'm from law
enforcement. I need you to withdraw X number of hundreds or thousands of dollars
to your account and give it to our agent. We'll use it as bait
and then you'll get the money back. People constantly fall for that. In
fact, one woman who is a reporter for a financial publication recently got taken
for fifty thousand dollars that way. And she should know better. I mean,
she covers the news all kinds of criminals. She should have seen this
coming, and she's been very open about it because she knows she was a
fool and went for it. And the other thing I'm seeing recently has to
do with internet scams against municipalities and counties. That sort of thing is they'll
put in a bug that freezes their computers and then holds it for ransom or
The other thing with it is that they'll call up and say, I'm your
vendor ABC Construction. We need to change the ACCH number on the account.
Now the ACCH number is what routes it to a particular checking account, So
oh yeah, we know the vendors. So they make the change, and
now all the payments go to the scammer's account. And in the last week
I've heard of three communities that have happened to involving taxpayer money and involving millions
of dollars. You would think communities would have caught onto this by now and
taken the steps to protect themselves, but they haven't. And it seems like
it's going to go on. And I've already got a show plan for it.
Oh wow. And that one scandal you or one scam you described just
before, was actually a subject of a nineteen sixty seven Dragnet episode, The
Bank Examiner. Yeah, the Bank Examiner swindle. So it is an old
scam but apparently still working. So oh, go ahead. No, I
was going to say that scams are not particularly new. They just change form
depending upon the technology and what's available to them. How society runs. There's
a great book out there called How a Burglar Sees the City and it takes
you through how a burglar looks at things, ways to get in, ways
to get out, that sort of thing. So there's nothing new about robbery,
you just how do you go about it? All right, So,
as we get ready to wrap up, could you let us know the best
way to find your podcast and to find you on the internet, and also
any specific scams you're going to be looking into in the future. Let's see,
I'm just finishing up season six and that'll wrap in late May. The
next main season will be in September, and the news episodes will run throughout
the summer. To find me, just go to Scamsincons dot com, so
that's pretty easy, or any place you get podcasts. Just type in scams
and Cons and you'll see the logo come up. It's bright yellow, it's
kind of hard to miss, and you'll see my ugly face on there pocketing
a bunch of money that I just took from somebody, or at least that's
what I'd like you to think anyway. And so you're scamming us with the
picture I am. I am absolutely doing that. And then Instagram and Facebook
both have pages, and again, just search for Scams and Cons and you'll
be there. Well, thank you so much, Jim. It was a
pleasure having you on the podcast. Now, before we go, I want
to thank our Patreon supporter of the day. Thank you to Philip, Patreon
supporter since June twenty twenty three, currently supporting the podcast at the rookie level
of two dollars or more per month. Thank you so much for your support,
Philip, and that will do it for today. If you're enjoying the
podcast, please follow us with your favorite podcast software. We will be back
tomorrow with an episode of the Adventures of the Falcon where I'm ashamed of my
past. I don't see why you have no criminal record that the police can
discover. This was your first offense, always the first time for everything when
it goes deeper than that creaming. You weren't hot pressed for cash? EI
did? Oh, I don't know. I went through your room, found
this bank book there and give you a license to go through my stuff.
Police. Seven thousand bucks in that account, Well, maybe that wasn't enough
for me. I certainly couldn't hope to pick up more at a very express
company. And fella can try, you know, I know, but you
didn't have your heart on it. The DA showed me the gun they took
away from me up there. Yeah, yeah, that thing couldn't hurt a
fly. The firing pin was filed all the way down. You're not of
your mind fulcon. Don't tell me that I saw the gun. But if
the pen was shut, I didn't know about it. You don't think I'd
do anything as silly as that. I think you're doing something silly. You
look, Cramer, you better start talking unless you level with me. They're
really going to pop it to you. Why don't you mind your own business?
Can I help it? If I'm nosy? Ll maybe this will kill
you? What's going on in now? In the meantime, send your comments
to Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net, follow us on Twitter at Radio
Detectives, and check us out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com slash Great
Detectives from Boise, Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham signing off.