1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,679 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:28,519 with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:32,479 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,799 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:43,960 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind of a Murderer. I'm Kristin 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,920 Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas. Welcome to another fun filled, exciting episode in 11 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:55,079 which we talk more about serial killers. YY. Can we use fun filled 12 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,600 and serial killers in the same sentence? I don't feel like we can. 13 00:01:00,159 --> 00:01:07,239 Unfortunately, I don't think that actually works fair enough. So it's an ask 14 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,760 us anything, Colonial Parkway Murders Special Edition? What makes it special? Kristin 15 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:19,239 Dilly, all of these questions came to us from a longtime listener who has 16 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,319 been with us from the very very beginning four long years now or I guess 17 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,920 four short years, depending on how well you reckon your sense of time. 18 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:33,319 Sends us excellent questions every single time that we ask for them, and he 19 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,159 really outdid himself this time. So this is ask us anything. We're calling 20 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,599 this the Robert Gray Edition. Thank you Robert for always giving us amazing questions. 21 00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:48,560 These are truly fantastic and there's a whole slew of them. So I 22 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,280 think this is going to take us like multiple episodes to get into. I 23 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,640 think so too. Now, last week you heard us have a fantastic conversation 24 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:01,159 with Blaine Pardoh. We really appreciate Blaine coming on Mind over Murder and talking 25 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,519 to us about a special kind of evil, the book that he co wrote 26 00:02:05,519 --> 00:02:09,840 with his daughter Victoria Hester and the Colonial Parkway murders, and so he covered 27 00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:15,280 a lot of really interesting ground in that conversation with us. And we've tried 28 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,360 now with Robert Gray's questions to go down other roads. We're going to do 29 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,759 our best to answer these questions. I can see one or two in here 30 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,240 that I think you're going to stump Us. We've got a lot to say, 31 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,520 and we want to thank Robert for these fantastic questions. Absolutely so, 32 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:37,800 without any further hesitation, let's just dive on in as always, al act 33 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:40,560 is MC here and I'll post the question. Bill will answer, I will 34 00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:45,199 answer, and we'll go back and forth until it has been answered satisfactorily. 35 00:02:45,719 --> 00:02:47,800 And we do encourage everybody to send us the questions that you have about the 36 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:53,560 Colonial Parkway murders and the recent reveal of Alan Wade Wilmer Senior as the killer 37 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:57,800 of Robin Edwards, David Knabline and Teresa Howell, and we will do our 38 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,280 best to answer them all right, Question number one, Bill and Kristen, 39 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:06,919 how have your own personal theories on the Colonial Parkway murders case has changed since 40 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,479 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior was identified as the perpetrator in the Edwards, Nobling and 41 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,240 Howell cases. We'll go and start with that portion of it. There's more. 42 00:03:15,879 --> 00:03:20,000 Wow, there's a lot right there. First of all, I've always 43 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,759 been very skeptical that all four of the double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders 44 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:29,199 were all related. And now I'm back to where I was years ago, 45 00:03:29,439 --> 00:03:34,439 which is thinking that the four double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders are all 46 00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:42,000 related. Certainly, we have Alan Wade Wilmer Senior identified as the offender in 47 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:46,919 the Robin Edwards David Noblin case via DNA and then also linked via DNA to 48 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:53,080 the nineteen eighty nine murder of Teresa Howell in Hampton, Virginia. As we've 49 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,199 discussed here over the last several weeks, we also know that Wilmer Senior was 50 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,719 suspect number one in the disappearance of Keith Collin to Sandra Haley. He's definitely 51 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:09,319 linked to three homicides, two in the Colonial Parkway murders and the Teresa Howell 52 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:15,439 case, as well as circumstantially linked to two more in the Colonial Parkway murders, 53 00:04:15,479 --> 00:04:18,319 Keith Collin to Sandra Haley. So I'm actually thinking that we may end 54 00:04:18,439 --> 00:04:24,759 up in a situation where the Colonial Parkway Murders are a murder series. So 55 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,480 that's a big shift for me personally. What about for you, Kristen, 56 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,120 Yeah, exactly the same. We I think. Even as recently as our 57 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,839 last ask Us Anything episode, we had been asked, what is your thought 58 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,439 process on the whole thing, And I remember that we had said, we 59 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,360 think eventually one or two of these are going to fall off the table. 60 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,279 And interestingly, I know that we were thinking Phelps Lawer was going to fall 61 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,759 off the table. I had also said maybe Ragged Island is going to fall 62 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:55,199 off the table too. I think it's very interesting now to look back at 63 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,759 that and then look at where we have been since January eighth and realize, 64 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,680 Wow, this has fundamentally shifted my point of view and my understanding of this 65 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:11,279 case. I do think now that the four murders in the Colonial Parkway murders 66 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,319 are all linked together. Now of course we have the inclusion of Teresa Howell's 67 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:21,800 murder as part of the Colonial Parkway Murders series. Now this does lead us 68 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:28,000 to start looking into the possibility of whether or not there are other single homicides, 69 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:32,360 and that led me to immediately go the cases we've always called Parkway adjacent 70 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,639 Brian Pattinger and Laurian Powell. Now I feel like they're back in play too, 71 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,759 and we need to consider is Alan Wade Wilmer Senior responsible for those cases 72 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,439 as well as Teresa Howell as well as the four Colonial Parkway murders cases and 73 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,759 are there others? And I think it's very likely there are others. This 74 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:56,160 is fundamentally shifted my understanding of the case. But the more that I think 75 00:05:56,199 --> 00:05:59,639 about it, the more that I turn it over during my commute and every 76 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,759 bit of free time that I have, the more that it does make sense. 77 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:05,959 And I can see Alan Wade Wilmer Senior being the single perpetrator for this 78 00:06:06,439 --> 00:06:11,399 quite likely, so that I think steers us to question number two. All 79 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,560 right, so question number two. I know you've said you believe Alan Wade 80 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,680 Wilmer Senior will likely be linked to other unsolved crimes in Virginia following this logic, 81 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:23,639 at this point in time, do you personally believe Alan Wade Wilmer Senior 82 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,839 was directly involved in any other of the CPM cases? If so, which 83 00:06:28,879 --> 00:06:31,399 ones and why? What does your gut tell you? What is your opinion 84 00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:35,279 on the likelihood that he was involved in all four of them? I think 85 00:06:35,319 --> 00:06:39,959 we covered some of that in our comments from a moment ago. I think 86 00:06:39,959 --> 00:06:44,319 it's extremely likely. As a matter of fact, I bet you a nice 87 00:06:44,439 --> 00:06:49,839 lunch, Alan Wade Wilmer will be identified as being responsible for other unsolved murders 88 00:06:49,879 --> 00:06:56,720 in Virginia and perhaps elsewhere. His name has come up a lot, and 89 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,000 we wanted to say hello to many of our new liststeners from Lancaster County who 90 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:05,839 are coming forward with information and they're highlighting cases, some of which we were 91 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,519 not familiar with at all. And as a matter of fact, Kristin has 92 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,800 been scrambling to put together a list and I know I'm going to have more 93 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,079 names to add to it of people that Virginians and people living even in adjacent 94 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:26,600 states feel that their cases or cases they're familiar with should be looked at in 95 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:31,279 connection with Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. I actually think it's quite possible that Wilmer 96 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,439 is responsible for all four of the Colonial Parkway murders. Remember, even from 97 00:07:35,439 --> 00:07:41,240 the very beginning in Kathy and Becky's murder, they were looking for a waterman. 98 00:07:41,839 --> 00:07:46,000 This guy checks a lot of boxes in terms of the kind of person 99 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,160 they've been looking for decades in Kathy and Becky's murder as well as in the 100 00:07:49,279 --> 00:07:55,839 other Colonial Parkway murders. So I am highly confident Alan Wade Wilmer Senior will 101 00:07:55,879 --> 00:08:01,839 be identified as an offender in a number of unsolved rapes and murders in Virginia 102 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:07,879 and elsewhere agreed one hundred percent. My legal pad, where I'm adding case 103 00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:11,040 names and case details and so on and so forth, is getting pretty fall 104 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:16,279 at this point, and I keep having to reevaluate and scramble my list around 105 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:22,759 because I'm looking at all of these different unsolved cases. They're running really heavily 106 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,160 all through the eighties, but there's also some outliers. We've got one that 107 00:08:26,199 --> 00:08:31,680 we're looking at in North Carolina from nineteen ninety seven, for example, and 108 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:37,720 one even as recently as twenty seventeen, right before this offender died. It 109 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,159 is going to be very interesting to see when law enforcement. I'm going to 110 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:43,960 be positive about this. I'm going to say when law enforcement follows up on 111 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,240 these cases, I'm going to be very interested to see how many of these 112 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:54,440 actually do check a box in the Alan Wade Wilmer Senior column in which are 113 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,720 going to be ultimately no, not connected. But we're still looking before the 114 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,080 reasons in press conference, I never knew that Robin Edwards was sexually assaulted, 115 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,840 says Robert. Is this new information or was this already known to the public. 116 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,159 It was not new information to us right. I don't think it was 117 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,159 ever known to the public. We've known for years, and we've worked very 118 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:24,799 closely with Robin's family and with David's family. We knew that Robin had been 119 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:28,639 sexually assaulted. We knew that someone had the night she died. Now, 120 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:33,200 obviously that could be consensual or it could be rape. I think Kristin and 121 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,919 I both felt that it was rape, particularly since she ended up being shot 122 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:41,159 to death along with her companion and their bodies dumped in the James River. 123 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,000 So we've known about this for quite some time. It's worth reviewing some of 124 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:52,080 this though, in that the Edwards family and Kristin and Bill have been pushing 125 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:58,720 for about probably close to five years, that the evidence in Robin's rape kit 126 00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:03,799 be retested. This is post Golden State killer. I had talked to Jeanette 127 00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:11,120 Edward Santiago, who is Robin's older sister, who's absolutely wonderful about testing that 128 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:15,519 evidence, and we both felt very strongly that we should test the evidence. 129 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,440 We knew that it was a very small amount of evidence remaining. They'd done 130 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:24,639 earlier tests at a time when more of the evidence was consumed. As a 131 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,200 result of those tests. In other words, you hope for a DNA profile 132 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:33,559 and hopefully some DNA remaining. With each test that's conducted, more of the 133 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:39,679 evidence is actually consumed in the chemical process that creates a profile. The good 134 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,600 news is that new tests in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four consume less 135 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,600 evidence than they did back in the day. Now, we had been approached 136 00:10:48,879 --> 00:10:50,720 with a tip, this has got to be a year ago, Kristen, 137 00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:54,960 maybe longer. Kristin and my partner Pamela teach me about Bill Thomas time or 138 00:10:56,039 --> 00:10:58,200 I keep insisting something was six months ago, and one of them looks at 139 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,159 me and says, it was two years ago. I somehow compressed things in 140 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,840 my head. Let's just go with a year or so ago. Don't hold 141 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:09,960 me to that number, like a year with exclamation yeah, with that quotation 142 00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:13,679 marks around quotation marks around it. Okay, a year or so. We 143 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,200 had received a tip that the Virginia State Police in the Department of Forensic Services 144 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:24,360 the DFS in the Commonwealth of Virginia had applied for and received a SAKI grant, 145 00:11:24,799 --> 00:11:28,840 a Sexual Assault Kit Initiative grant. Kristin and I have talked about these 146 00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:33,200 before on the program. They were going to use that SAK grant, which 147 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:39,960 is usually like five thousand dollars to cover lab costs to test the evidence in 148 00:11:39,039 --> 00:11:43,399 the Robin Edwards rape kit. We understood that the evidence was going to a 149 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:50,399 particular lab. Names are not important here. We'd heard from our colleagues that 150 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,639 lab might not be the best choice for this particular kind of test because it 151 00:11:54,759 --> 00:12:00,039 was badly degraded DNA. It had been exposed to seawater. Remember, and 152 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,679 David's bodies were dumped in the water, and we're floating out towards the ocean, 153 00:12:03,799 --> 00:12:07,320 so salt water is particularly damaging. This evidence is also thirty five years 154 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,919 old. We've got a lot of challenges here, and we were told that 155 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,360 the particular lab that had been designated to do the testing might not be the 156 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,240 top choice. No criticism here, since we know we might consume the last 157 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,840 bit of evidence. I got a hold of Janette and we talked about it, 158 00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:28,440 and we both agreed that if we're willing to take the last shot, 159 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,440 because Jeanette and I both said, it's been so many years, let's just 160 00:12:33,879 --> 00:12:39,440 take the shot and see if we can get a workable DNA profile here. 161 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:43,559 Jeanette and I reached out to the Virginia State Police investigator, who's very helpful. 162 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,919 He's been handling the case as a cold case for the last couple of 163 00:12:48,039 --> 00:12:52,240 years. I really like him and he works very well with the families, 164 00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:56,399 and we conveyed our concerns and he took them under advisement. But then he 165 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,120 came back to Janette and she's the appropriate person for him to contact, and 166 00:13:00,159 --> 00:13:01,919 he said it's too late. The evidence went to the lab. The good 167 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,360 news is the evidence came back from the lab. They had not conducted the 168 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,080 tests. They figured out that their system wasn't really the right system for a 169 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,679 badly degraded small amount of DNA that had been exposed to seawater, so they 170 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:24,240 returned the evidence to the Virginia DFS Department of Forensic Science. So then the 171 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:28,840 evidence went out to another lab unnamed to us. The good news is they 172 00:13:28,879 --> 00:13:33,879 got a result. This lab was a better choice. Whoever that might be. 173 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,480 I can think of three or four labs. It could have been all 174 00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:39,440 of them excellent and terrific people who are trying to help move cases forward. 175 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:46,399 So then a profile was then created. Now we understand that investigative genetic genealogy 176 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,080 was used in this example, but that's a conversation for another day. They 177 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:56,440 ended up with a working profile and they had a name. This is how 178 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,320 we ended up with the offender in the rob and Edwards David Nobling case at 179 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:07,039 Ragged Island being identified and Robert. It is an excellent question. I don't 180 00:14:07,039 --> 00:14:09,440 think it was over public that Robin had been raped, but it was something 181 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,360 that the family group and those of us that have worked on the case for 182 00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:18,000 a number of years were aware of. I do remember it was on one 183 00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:22,840 of the anniversaries. I'm going to have to do Bill Thomas time now. 184 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,559 It had to have been three or four years ago, but I really can't 185 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,080 be sure at this point, give me five or six years ago, or 186 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,200 maybe it wasn't even an anniversary. But I was writing something up about the 187 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,879 case for the Colonial Parkway murders Facebook page. I had mentioned in there that 188 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:41,759 there was everybody knew that David and Robin had been murdered, but I remember 189 00:14:43,039 --> 00:14:48,080 using the term sexually assaulted, and one of Robin's friends actually wrote and said, 190 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,399 please don't mention that. It's just really upsetting for those of us who 191 00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:54,440 knew her, and I was like, of course, absolutely, we'll take 192 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,080 it out because it isn't necessary to know, not really, but I remember 193 00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:03,639 being very careful from that point on. Let's not mention it because it really 194 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:07,639 the tragedy here is that this poor young woman was murdered. We don't need 195 00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:13,720 to compound the tragedy by also mentioning that she had been violated in this terrible 196 00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:16,840 way as well. So the second part of this question I think is really 197 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,679 interesting Robert, and he asks, with sexual assault being a motive in Edward's 198 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:24,919 novelin, does this change how you view potential motive in the other Colonial Parkway 199 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,799 murders cases? Is there any evidence that indicates other victims in the other CPM 200 00:15:28,879 --> 00:15:33,759 cases we're sexually assaulted. I want to deal with that for just one second 201 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:37,720 by pointing out that there are some difficulties with that. In that number one, 202 00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:41,799 we know that there was a rape kit taken for Kathy and Becky, 203 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,879 but unfortunately, as we've covered on the podcast before, that rape kit was 204 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:52,879 destroyed after a I'm trying to figure out a really polite way toward this, 205 00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:54,960 and I don't think there is one. You want to go ahead and take 206 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,960 that bureaucratic foul up. Sure, we'll go with that. One bureaucratic fell 207 00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:07,120 up between York Precoson Sheriff's Office and the FBI over who had the kit, 208 00:16:07,679 --> 00:16:11,639 who was going to be responsible for it, and ultimately the kit was destroyed. 209 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:17,159 We don't know if there was sexual assault in Kathy and Becky's case because 210 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,480 we do not have the kit to test that. To our knowledge, however, 211 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,720 Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were not sexually assaulted. That's the best we 212 00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:33,120 can do. Given the fact that the FBI ordered York Pekoson County to burn 213 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:38,000 the Thomas and Dowski rape kits as medical waste, eight years after they were 214 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,960 murdered. I don't know what to say, is what it is. My 215 00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:51,080 understanding is that they were not sexually assaulted. But as doctor Marcella Fierro said 216 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,399 to me, mister Thomas, you never ever destroy evidence in an unsolved murder 217 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,559 case. There's no excuse for it. As far as we know, Kathy 218 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,480 and Becky were not sexually assaulted. Now, let's turn to the other victims 219 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:08,920 in the Colonial Parkway murders. What do we know about sexual assault? And 220 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,880 unfortunately for these two cases, in one case, the call in the Haley 221 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:18,200 case, we do not have bodies, so there is no way of knowing 222 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,799 that. And because we know that there is a possibility that the car was 223 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,720 staged on the Parkway, we don't really know where the primary crime scene was. 224 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,480 We don't know where they were intercepted. It could have been the party, 225 00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:33,559 it could have been any number of other places. We have no real 226 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:37,920 way of knowing that either. And then with Phelpslower, their bodies were found 227 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,599 in such an advanced state of decomposition that there was no way to get any 228 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:48,480 sort of evidence either. In three of the four cases, we really have 229 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,359 no way of knowing definitively whether or not sexual assault was a motive. It's 230 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,440 a good question, and it's definitely one that needs to be taken into consideration 231 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:04,200 because it does seem like sexual assault was very much on Alan Wade Wilmer Senior's 232 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:10,039 mind when he went out hunting. Because of the bureaucratic foul up and the 233 00:18:10,079 --> 00:18:14,119 state of the bodies in the New Kent case and the fact that we have 234 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,680 no bodies for Keith and Sandy, I don't think we're going to be able 235 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,359 to come up with a straight answer for that. Unfortunately, we're gonna go 236 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,960 ahead and move on a question number four. Has the FBI compared Alan Wade, 237 00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:30,920 Wilmer Seniors DNA with potential perpetrator DNA found in the Call Haley for Thomas 238 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:36,480 Dowski crime scenes? If not, do they have any plans to what is 239 00:18:36,519 --> 00:18:40,079 the status of DNA testing? That's the sixty four thousand dollars question, What 240 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,480 is the status of DNA testing in general? In the other cases, Let 241 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,759 me find a nice wall that I can bang my head against for a little 242 00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:52,400 while I think to the question, has the FBI compared Alan Wade, Wilmer 243 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:57,240 Seniors DNA with potential perpetrator DNA found in the Call Haley or Thomasowski crime scenes? 244 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,319 I would like to think that they have, or that they will. 245 00:19:02,759 --> 00:19:08,519 The logical part of me believes that they will. They will not answer straightforward 246 00:19:08,599 --> 00:19:14,480 questions in a straightforward manner. I guess the best I can do is say 247 00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:19,559 I believe so certainly. I had a very frank conversation with our FBI agent 248 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:26,400 a couple of weeks ago where I emphatically said that this has to happen, 249 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:30,559 and that I needed a personal assurance that this was going to happen. I'm 250 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:36,160 still not one hundred percent satisfied with the answer I got, But that seems 251 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,319 to be just the way the FBI works. I should also mention and hello 252 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,119 to the FBI analyst who was listening to our podcast. The FBI indicated to 253 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:52,160 the families that in order to do the additional testing on the evidence that we 254 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,119 would hope would go part and parcel with learning that a serial killer was active 255 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,920 in this part of Virginia and me very very well be responsible for the other 256 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,680 murders in this series of cases, families were told that it would cost three 257 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,039 hundred thousand dollars to do the DNA testing in this particular case. I am 258 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,319 confident that we could crowdfund that from you guys, But as you recall, 259 00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:21,960 the FBI has said that they cannot accept gifts from the family members or from 260 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,640 anybody that, as they say, is that and I just find that reprehensible. 261 00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:30,759 You cannot tell me that there is not three hundred thousand dollars somewhere in 262 00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:34,799 the FBI's budget that you can use to test the evidence in these cases when 263 00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:40,480 it has been determined based on physical DNA evidence, that there is a man 264 00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:45,440 who was a serial killer in this area during the nineteen eighties and may very 265 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,559 well have been working up until the last days of his life. You cannot 266 00:20:48,599 --> 00:20:51,839 tell me that you don't have the money for that, and if you do, 267 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,359 I'm going to call you a liar. I'm going to call you a 268 00:20:53,400 --> 00:21:00,640 liar. We're pretty horrified that this kind of thing is conveyed to the families. 269 00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:06,079 Now. I've even been told that basically that I need to lobby for 270 00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:11,440 more funding for the FBI's budget in order to cover these costs. That's not 271 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,119 your job, though, well, is what I would say to that. 272 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,960 It's not that I'm not willing to do it, of course, obviously we 273 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:23,839 want answers in the Colonial Parkway murders. But how many million dollars is the 274 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,680 FBI already into the Colonial Parkway murders. Think about how much FBI agent and 275 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:37,720 staff time over thirty seven years has gone into this case. How many different 276 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:45,359 forensic tests have been conducted in the Colonial Parkway murders, and now they're telling 277 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,319 the families they need another three hundred thousand dollars. And the implication and I 278 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,279 was not in the room when this was said, because I wasn't invited to 279 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:59,759 the meeting. The implication seemed to be that the Colonial Parkway murders families were 280 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:03,559 going to have to lobby on behalf of the FBI for an additional three hundred 281 00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:07,440 thousand dollars to be added to the FBI budget. It's not that I'm not 282 00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:12,839 willing to do it, it just seemed like the timing was inappropriate at best. 283 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,519 This is at the briefing that the call Hayley, Edwards and Noobling families 284 00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:26,240 were informed about the news regarding their loved ones. I think from a timing 285 00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:30,480 perspective, if nothing else, it was a highly inappropriate thing for these FBI 286 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:36,839 agents to say, you're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back 287 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:52,359 after this word from our sponsors, We're back here at mindover Murder. Outside 288 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,240 of DNA and tips, what our other means investigators can leverage to determine or 289 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:03,079 rule out a potential connection between Alan Wade Wilmer Senior and the other Colonial Parkway 290 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,160 murders cases. I'm not sure I completely understand the question. I think DNA 291 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:15,599 and tips, particularly from people from Lancaster County and Northumberland County that knew Allan 292 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,480 Wade Wilmer, I think those are the two most important things. Obviously. 293 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,759 One of the things that we're very concerned about is this apparent policy that Allan 294 00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:33,759 Wade Wilmer seniors DNA cannot be loaded into the CODIS system, which we've discussed 295 00:23:33,799 --> 00:23:38,759 a little bit in some interviews and on this podcast as well as other podcasts. 296 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:45,880 We're finding this really baffling. Apparently, because Wilmer was never convicted of 297 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:52,799 a felony during his time on Earth, we cannot now upload his DNA into 298 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,799 COTIS, and this is something that is unacceptable to us. We think this 299 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,119 is razy. This is a man who is a confirmed m serial killer by 300 00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:07,440 FBI established standards. We actually think these rules need to be changed, and 301 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,519 strangely, these decisions seem to be made at the state level. COTIS is 302 00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:17,480 a strange system, and we're going to be trying to develop a better understanding 303 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,000 of how the system works. We're actually hoping to have a CODAS expert join 304 00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:23,480 us in the next couple of weeks to walk us through how the system works 305 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,200 and how it can be improved. We have talked to a lot of people. 306 00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:33,559 We're not actually sure that the remedy is a legislative one. We think 307 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:37,839 it may be a rule change that's required. We think it's just completely insane 308 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:45,400 that a clearly identified serial killer who's dead and has been dead since twenty seventeen, 309 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,400 that his DNA cannot be placed into the CODAS system. We understand that 310 00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:59,200 one to one comparisons can be made between Wilmer and other cases where agents suspect 311 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,480 that there could be relationship, but we think this is a remarkably inefficient way 312 00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,079 to go about this. As we understand it, this is what CODIS was 313 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,799 designed for. We are determined to help figure out a way to get Wilmer's 314 00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:17,319 DNA put into the CODAS system. We think it would facilitate a lot of 315 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:23,319 identifications and link Wilmer potentially to a number of other solved and unsolved cases. 316 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,720 I think if they eventually get him put in there, it is going to 317 00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:32,119 light up like a Christmas tree, and that is something that investigators are going 318 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,880 to have to be prepared for. This one's interesting, and I don't know 319 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:40,359 that we have this information, but let's give it a shot. At any 320 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,640 point in time, was Alan Wade Wilmer Senior considered a suspect in the Thomas 321 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,279 Daowski or Phelps lower cases. I'm actually fairly certain based on new information that 322 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:55,359 I've received, that Alan Wade Wilmer was a suspect in the Thomas Dowski murder. 323 00:25:55,839 --> 00:26:00,240 At the time of the disappearance of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley, when they 324 00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:03,960 were taking a look at Wilmer, and this is when they were executing the 325 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,519 search warrant at his parents' home, as it turns out, up in Lancaster, 326 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:14,240 as well as giving him the lie detector test and questioning him. They 327 00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:19,200 believed actually that they had identified the Colonial Parkway killer and that he was a 328 00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:27,079 suspect in Thomas Dowski. We've also heard unofficially from retired Virginia State Police investigators 329 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:33,680 that they actually regarded Alan Wade Wilmer Senior as a suspect in the Phelps Lower 330 00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:37,279 murder. That's the one up on Interstate sixty four at the Hunt Club. 331 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,160 Don't forget this is a man who was an avid hunter. I think the 332 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:47,000 answer is yes, he was a suspect in these other Colonial Parkway murders. 333 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,119 What evidence exists in the other Colonial Parkway murders cases that you believe may rule 334 00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:59,480 out Alan Wade Wilmer Senior as a likely perpetrator or suspect. I think about 335 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,440 the only thing that would eliminate Wilmer as a suspect in the other Colonial Parkway 336 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:11,359 murders would be a via DNA offender. DNA if another offender was identified and 337 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,000 nothing from Wilmer was found there, you could see that moving in that direction. 338 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,680 But other than that, I can't think of too much now me either, 339 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,200 I have any tips placed Ellen Wade Wilmer senior at the party Keith Collin 340 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,960 Cassandra Haley attended the night of their disappearance. Have any tips indicated that they 341 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,200 may have crussed paths at all on that night. It's a very interesting question, 342 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,279 and it's one Bill and I both immediately asked ourselves when we started learning 343 00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:41,079 more about Wilmer. Is this the kind of guy who would have shown up 344 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,519 at the University Square party that night? I have not heard anything, but 345 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,680 keep in mind Bill spends a lot more time engaging with people and working tips 346 00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:55,920 during the day than I'm capable of doing. Because I'm teaching high schoolers, 347 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,680 Bill's able to get a lot of stuff. So I think you'd have told 348 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,519 me if you'd heard, But I also know we haven't caught up in a 349 00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:04,880 day or two. Have you heard anything. I talked to Joyce called Canada, 350 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,440 Keith's sister, at some length as recently as yesterday, and she indicated 351 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,279 that they've had some really good discussions and we've actually shared some of their content 352 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:22,480 from there. Whatever happened to Richard Keith call and Cassandra Haley facebook page where 353 00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:26,559 a lot of people who were at the party at Christopher Newport University the night 354 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:32,880 that Keith and Sandy went missing have been discussing this very issue. It's something 355 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:37,519 we're definitely looking at, and this is something that we understand that our FBI 356 00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:41,240 and Virginia State Police investigators are looking at. Again. I was frustrated a 357 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,640 few years ago because I felt like I had talked to more people who were 358 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:52,279 at that party and Joyce the same than the investigators had, which was a 359 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:56,720 big source of frustration for us. Most of those people are still around, 360 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,680 they're in their fifties now, because this was thirty five years ago and they 361 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:06,319 were eighteen to twenty two years old, mostly college students or of college age, 362 00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:08,480 and they're more than willing to help. Obviously, they're not going to 363 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:14,119 remember every single detail from an evening thirty five years ago. But they are 364 00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:18,480 completely willing to talk with investigators. I know that the investigators had indicated they 365 00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:22,960 were going to be talking to some of the people specifically who were there that 366 00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:26,799 evening, So I think that's an open question and a very good one. 367 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,079 Is it possible that somebody like Wilmer could have shown up there? Yeah, 368 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,400 there were some reports there were a lot of people there, and it was 369 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,160 a party that was in several different apartments. There's beer and beer kegs and 370 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,279 lots of stuff going on with young people hanging out. But there were some 371 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,240 reports that there were some older people there, and older, by the way, 372 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:49,640 would have meant thirty ish, which would have been approximately Wilmer's age. 373 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,240 And other people like Ron Little and other longtime suspects have also been mentioned as 374 00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:59,960 potentially being at that party. But I think this is absolutely worth exploring, 375 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,720 particularly when it feels like we're so close now on cal Haley. It would 376 00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:10,799 be fantastic if we could sort this out and identify whether Wilmer is the appropriate 377 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:15,640 offender for Keith Colin Cassandra Haley. Absolutely, is there any reason to believe 378 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,599 Allan Wade Wilmer Senior knew any of his victims or does it appear it was 379 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,920 stranger on stranger violence in the cases where he is a confirmed perpetrator, have 380 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,119 any tips come in indicating that he knew, met or had a connection to 381 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,799 any other victims in the CPM cases. This is a really interesting question. 382 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:44,400 From our recent conversations with profilers and FBI trained profilers now in private practice, 383 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,920 a number of them feel that Alan Wade Wilmer was a serial offender and that 384 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,640 he was always hunting for new victims. So while he's working as a waterman, 385 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:59,359 working as a tree man, driving around, going into a bar, 386 00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:04,200 or arrest than ron, he's always looking for potential victims, single women, 387 00:31:04,759 --> 00:31:11,279 perhaps single men, and couples. We are not aware of him actually meeting 388 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:17,480 any of these victims, but he might have seen them around. And I 389 00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:22,240 was just talking to Joyce about this. There are potential intersections between where some 390 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:26,839 of the victims live and work and go to school and Wilmer. So it'll 391 00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:32,160 be really interesting to see what the investigators come up with in the coming months. 392 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,839 So this next question is actually something that we're going to do a larger 393 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,119 episode on. So I think we're going to acknowledge the question, but then 394 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,920 say stay tuned for an upcoming episode. Can't give away all of our trade 395 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,599 secrets all at once. So the question is, have any tips come in 396 00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:52,480 indicating Alan Wade Wilmer Senior had an overtly aggressive nature and hatred toward gay or 397 00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:56,440 lesbian couples. And I'm going to say, let's wait for an upcoming episode 398 00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:00,599 and we'll discuss that further. Fair enough. Next one, does Allan Woid 399 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,640 Wilmer Senior's work as a waterman give you any reason to believe he was involved 400 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,039 in the Thomasdowski case in line with the original waterman theory, which is attributed 401 00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:15,279 to evidence found near the vehicle discovery site in that case. Yes, yeah, 402 00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:20,559 I would say out equivocally yes, without question, and particularly with the 403 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,559 use of nautical rope. Remember we say rope a lot, but it's actually 404 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:29,480 nautical rope. Blaine Pardo mentioned that last week in the interview we did with 405 00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:35,720 him, and he got that from former sac IRV Wells Special Agent in charge. 406 00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:39,480 He was the man that was responsible for the overall investigation of Thomasdowski and 407 00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:45,440 Carl Haley, the two FBI cases on the Colonial Parkway in its nautical rope, 408 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:51,319 knives and diesel fuel, and these are some of the tools of a 409 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,680 waterman. Whoever killed them brought those things with them and for the most part, 410 00:32:55,799 --> 00:33:00,519 took them away. There was a small piece of nautical rope left behind, 411 00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:04,319 stuck on my sister's neck, up under her long red hair, and 412 00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:08,720 I hope that they are taking another look at that rope and the origins of 413 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,599 that rope. But as I understand, it's nautical rope of a type that 414 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,039 would have been used by waterman, So there's a lot there that indicates that 415 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:22,279 a waterman could have been involved. I really hope they are paying attention to 416 00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:25,359 that rope in particular. It has been literally hundreds of tips. One of 417 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:30,480 the many hundreds of tips that we have received from people, one of them 418 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:34,799 that stood out to me was from someone who said one of the places Filmer 419 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,680 frequented was a shop that had a special type of nautical rope, and I 420 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:45,720 would one percent encourage the FBI to please dig out that tip. That person 421 00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:49,839 said they were going to go ahead and write in a tip to the FBI. 422 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,079 Please look at that tip, look at that location, get some of 423 00:33:53,119 --> 00:33:57,160 the rope there. Compare it to the rope under Kathy's hair, I'm going 424 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,000 to bet you a nice steak dinner. As Bill likes to that there is 425 00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:04,920 going to be some match or some kind of overlap. I would highly encourage 426 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,920 that. Of course, I'm not an FBI agent, that's not my job. 427 00:34:07,159 --> 00:34:12,119 Please go check it out last one for the moment. We will definitely 428 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:16,079 continue this series of questions in another episode. Did Alan Wade Wilmer Senior have 429 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:22,440 any ties to the Hunt Club where the phelps lower remains were found? I 430 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,000 would say none that we're aware of yet. Now there's a couple of interesting 431 00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:30,519 things that have come up. First of all, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior was 432 00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:37,280 a guy who had no respect for the rules, as you might figure with 433 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:43,760 a serial killer, so he would often hunt in the off season and just 434 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,840 completely blow off whatever the requirements were. So it's quite possible that he might 435 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,199 have hunted at that Hunt Club illegally, or he may have attended the Hunt 436 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:59,360 Club as a guest as well. Let's not forget that Interstate sixty four is 437 00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:04,440 one of the ways and a pretty direct route from Lancaster County, where he 438 00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:08,679 is based out of, down to the Tidewater area of Virginia. So the 439 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:14,079 idea that he would be going down Interstate sixty four and perhaps stopping at that 440 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,920 rest stop. And keep in mind, this is a guy who is always 441 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:22,199 cruising, if that's the way it's been described to us, looking for victims. 442 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,760 So he is looking for people that he can attack, and he's been 443 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,199 reported as attacking people numerous times on the Colonial Parkway, and these are people 444 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:37,760 that survived. I think there could easily be something there to maybe him encountering 445 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:44,239 Anna, Maria Phelps, and Daniel Lower, perhaps at the Virginia Interstate sixty 446 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,440 four rest stop that many people know now as the rest stop with the big 447 00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:52,239 love sign. I don't want to skip too quickly over what you were just 448 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,840 saying, because one of the things that we're finding happening here is that we 449 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,719 have people who are coming to us with information, but they don't necessarily feel 450 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,880 comfort. People go into law enforcement with it, which I can understand. 451 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,920 And we have had a number of people who have reached out to us who 452 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,480 have said I was on the Colonial Parkway and this truck pulled me over, 453 00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:14,440 tried to pull me over, crept up on me in a half moon pull 454 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:20,159 off. Bill has dealt with all of these people taking their information. There 455 00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:24,320 are a lot of people that Alan Wade Wilmer Senior was approaching on the Colonial 456 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:30,239 Parkway, and many people who have merely escaped this guy. So when we 457 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,960 talk about people that he attacked and survived, this is new information to us. 458 00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:38,159 We hope that the FBI will run with that information and do what they 459 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,920 need to do to try to track these people down. But it is very 460 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,880 interesting that over the course of the less set of weeks since January eighth, 461 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:52,639 we are learning so much from so many people who had experiences on the parkway 462 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,880 that really fit Alan Wade Wilmer Senior to a t. And we do encourage 463 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,039 anyone if you have had an experience on the parkway and you have not gone 464 00:37:02,039 --> 00:37:07,360 forward to law enforcement with that information, please make use of the tip line, 465 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,639 make use of the phone number, make use of the email. Please 466 00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:15,960 reach out to law enforcement. We need as much information as possible about Ellen 467 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,039 Wade Wilmer Senior and his movements up and down the Colonial Parkway. So if 468 00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:24,719 that is something that happened to you at any point during the eighties on the 469 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:30,119 Colonial Parkway, please do reach out to law enforcement and let them know we 470 00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:34,519 appreciate you reaching out to us, but we are not investigators, and we 471 00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,760 have more information coming at us than we can reasonably handle right now. So 472 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,800 if that is an experience that you've had, please we encourage you to take 473 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,519 that to law enforcement and make use of those tip lines and tip pages that 474 00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:50,960 we will post on our show notes. Anyone who may have known Wilmer is 475 00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:58,239 encouraged to contact the FBI by calling one eight hundred call FBI or submitting a 476 00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:05,920 tip online at tips tips at FBI dot gov. Those of the information can 477 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:13,159 also reach out to the Virginia State Police by email at Questions at vsp dot 478 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:19,559 Virginia dot gov. Please, if you have any information regarding Alan Wade Wilmer 479 00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:23,480 Senior his activities in the particularly in the eighties, nineties, and two thousands, 480 00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:29,519 please reach out to law enforcement. We have many more questions to come 481 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,280 in this Ask Us Anything episode, So we are wrapping here, but we 482 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,280 will continue in another episode. Thank you so much to everyone who has continued 483 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,599 to listen to our coverage of the Colonial Parkway murders and Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. 484 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,840 We will continue to cover this story as it unfolds. That's going to 485 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,760 do it for this episode of mind Never Murder. Thank you so much for 486 00:38:50,840 --> 00:39:02,920 listening. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of 487 00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:09,480 Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin 488 00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:15,440 Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by 489 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,920 Kevin McLoud. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. 490 00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:24,480 You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also 491 00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:30,039 follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you 492 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:34,800 can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas five six. Thank you for 493 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,440 listening to mind Over Murder.