WEBVTT 1 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:32.439 Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two of our series about the 2 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:36.719 unexplained death of Rodney Mars Robin, do you want to catch everyone up on 3 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:40.719 what we talked about in our previous episode, Well, this is the first 4 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:45.200 case you've ever covered from Antarctica. It takes place at the South Pole, 5 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:50.479 at the Amundson Scott South Pole Station, which is a research station where about 6 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:55.280 fifty people go to work a year round and it'll work so that during the 7 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:59.560 summer season it's six months of straight daylight, followed by the winter season which 8 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.159 is six months of straight darkness. And one of the people who loved working 9 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:06.280 there, this was his second stint there was Rodney Marx, who was an 10 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:11.079 Australian astrophysicist. He showed up there during the nineteen ninety nine was planning to 11 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.719 stay there for a whole year, and he also got engaged to a woman 12 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.760 who was stationed there named Sonia Walter, and they were planning to get married 13 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.400 after they made it back to the mainland. But one point during his stint 14 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:26.799 in May of two thousand, Rodney started to become very ill and over the 15 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.920 course, at thirty six hours his condition was worsen until he suddenly died. 16 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:33.840 They were not able to figure out his cause of death. At first, 17 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:38.799 they attributed to natural causes, but after a Rodney's body was flown back to 18 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:42.319 the mainland about six months later and he was given an autopsy, they discovered 19 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:46.280 that his exact cause of death was methanol poisoning. But of course, in 20 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.480 so much time had passed and all the people at the station had gone their 21 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.840 separate ways. And it was also a jurisdictional nightmare because the New Zealand police 22 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.439 wanted to do the investigation, but a lot of the people who were stationed 23 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.159 there were American and it was tough to decide who act she had jurisdiction in 24 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:05.120 Antarctica. So they were unable to figure out the circumstances of how Rodney may 25 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:07.400 have died. Could it have been an accident, could have been ingested methanol 26 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:12.960 by mistake by drinking tainted liquor, or was it an intentional homicide where someone 27 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:15.639 poisoned one of his drinks and that's how he died. But no one has 28 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:19.680 ever been named as a suspect or person of interest. No one has ever 29 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:23.080 been named as having a personal grudge against Rodney or a motive to murder him. 30 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.719 So to this day of this death is technically still unexplained and they've been 31 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:31.159 unable to determine if it was a homicide or an accidental death. So before 32 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:35.840 we start talking anymore about Rodney Marx's case, I want to share a story 33 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:40.120 about another crazy incident which occurred at the Emmonson Scott South Hole Station. In 34 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:44.840 our last episode, we mentioned that during the winter months, the weather is 35 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:49.120 so cold that it is nearly impossible for a plane to land there. Well, 36 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.159 just over a year before Rodney's death, a woman named doctor Jerry Nielsen 37 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:55.599 was assigned to serve as the physician at the station, but during the winter 38 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:59.840 season, she discovered a lump in her breasts. Due to the weather, 39 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:04.639 there was no way she could possibly be evacuated for months, so doctor Nielsen 40 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:08.319 was forced to perform a biopsy on herself and self treat her own cancer, 41 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:15.960 which involves self administering chemotherapy. The National Science Foundation even sent a military plane 42 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:20.280 to fly over the base and air drops some medical supplies for her treatment because 43 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:23.599 they cannot safely land and pick her up. But thankfully, once they're able 44 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:29.080 to evacuate Nielsen and transport her back to the United States for the proper medical 45 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:36.159 attention. Her cancer went into remission. Unbelievable. One Just what a hero 46 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:39.080 is she where she's saying, like, listen, I will get medical care, 47 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:43.400 and if i can't get it from somebody else, I'm going to have 48 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:47.840 to trust myself enough to try to save my own life. Like that alone 49 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.120 is one of the most epic and motivating and inspirational stories I've ever heard in 50 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:59.000 my life. It is tragic that you don't have a team setup like we 51 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:04.400 talked about on episode, where people are accounted for, provided for, and 52 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:12.919 have means to rarely needed but important kind of access to high end medical care 53 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:17.199 and the ability to get help when they need it. For her, thank 54 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:20.879 god, by the time she's able to be transported out, she is able 55 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:25.360 to get the necessary care and go into remission, because that could have gone 56 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:29.120 a very very different direction. Yeah, we knew that this part of the 57 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:30.920 story was going to get the strongest reaction out of you, even though it's 58 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:34.800 not directly tied to Rodney Marx's case. We just had to mention it because 59 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:38.519 it is so epic. Oh, it's crazy. I mean, you go 60 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:41.519 there and you really are. You're sacrificing so much of your life. It's 61 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:46.720 an amazing opportunity for someone's career, but you're sacrificing so much for the love 62 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.160 of science. And then you get there and you're not provided for the way 63 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.720 that you should be. It's a slap in the face with an organization that 64 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:58.839 has so much funding and so much money, it needs to really focus on 65 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:03.199 protecting those people who are doing their work well. Speaking of Raytheon Technologies, 66 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:08.680 here is another story. So we have one more true crime story to share, 67 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:12.879 and this one was chronicled by the late great true crime writer and Rule 68 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:16.800 in one of her chapters of her twenty twelve book Lying in Wait and Rules 69 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:21.879 Crime Files. It involves a sixty one year old man named Robert Alan Baker, 70 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:26.759 who beat and strangled his wife, Kathy Baker, to death in Greenback, 71 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.399 Washington, in June of twenty twelve and wound up receiving a sentence of 72 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:35.240 fifty two years in prison. While what's interesting is that Baker worked as a 73 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:41.600 defense contractor at the Raytheon Technologies Corporation, and, much like Rodney Marx and 74 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:46.279 Sonia Walter, his relationship with his wife began while they were working together at 75 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.959 the Aminston Scott South Pole station. At the end of her chapter about this 76 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:55.680 case and Rule actually made reference to Rodney Marx and while she did not know 77 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:59.439 if Baker knew Rodney or was stationed at the South Pole with him, she 78 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:03.600 hoped him investigators would look into a potential connection, while upon further research, 79 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:08.600 it turns out that Baker did not start working at Raytheon until two thousand and 80 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:13.079 one, one year after Rodney's death, so I think we can safely rule 81 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:16.199 him out. The main reason we made mention of this story is because there 82 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:21.000 was some controversy over the fact that Baker was a convicted sex offender who had 83 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:27.279 previously spent time in prison from molesting an underage relative, so Raytheon never should 84 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:30.519 have hired him in the first place, let alone send him off to an 85 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.920 isolated location in Antarctica to meet his future wife. This is why it could 86 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:41.079 have proved very useful for Raytheon and the National Science Foundation to have turned over 87 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:46.439 all their personnel files to the New Zealand Police for investigation, because who knows 88 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.199 if Rodney may have spent the winter with someone with a checkered history who was 89 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:54.040 capable of murdering him. Yeah, exactly. I mean, here's the thing 90 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:57.920 where when you don't do the diligent research there and you have these ideas that 91 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.600 you are again and putting people at risk, it's crazy to me. Right, 92 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:08.839 this guy Baker is a convicted sex offender who was spending time in prison 93 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:13.240 for molesting an underage relative. And so when you look at the fact that 94 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:17.959 these kinds of businesses and corporations, if their primary interest is who can make 95 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:21.160 us the most money, who can contribute to us the most, and they 96 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:25.759 don't look at risk they pose to not only the company, but also to 97 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:30.639 the people around them, it's ridiculous. It's motivated for money and not the 98 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:35.040 protection of who they serve and the people that serve alongside them. Yeah, 99 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:38.279 they're probably be thinking to their selves, well, we're not going to find 100 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.600 too many people who are willing to spend an entire year in Antarctica, so 101 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.160 we might have slim pickings. So of course they're going to hire a guy. 102 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.079 And it's unclear if they knew if Baker had was a convicted sex offender 103 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.759 and had this history, but even if they did, they might have felt, 104 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:54.519 well, we can't find too many other people to staff the place, 105 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:58.759 so let's send them down there and take our chances. I really and truly 106 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:03.399 hope that they just did know and they didn't willingly send a sex offender onto 107 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.519 a research base where basically nobody can access them for six months of the year. 108 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.439 That is a terrifying thought. So let's face it, if you wanted 109 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.800 to commit the perfect murder, the South Pole during the winter season would be 110 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:20.879 an ideal time and place to do so, because it could be months before 111 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:26.040 law enforcement showed up to conduct a proper investigation. Now, in Rodney's case, 112 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:31.120 his death was initially attributed to natural causes, but you might be wondering 113 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:35.279 how they would handle things if a violent crime did take place. Well. 114 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.759 A situation like this occurred at Antarctica's McMurdo Station in nineteen ninety six after an 115 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:45.559 incident where an American cook at the facility attacked an American coworker with a hammer, 116 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:50.600 though thankfully the victim survived, the McMurdo station manager was assigned to be 117 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:54.519 a special Deputy US Marshal with training and evidence protection, so he had the 118 00:08:54.559 --> 00:09:00.200 power to arrest any Americans who committed crimes. There after the attack, you 119 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.240 had the cook confined to a hut until FBI agents were able to arrive at 120 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.720 the base and take the cook into custody. The advantageous part of the situation 121 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:13.080 is that it's unlikely that can find perpetrator would ever attempt to make an escape 122 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.080 because well, where would they go? Well exactly, That's exactly what I 123 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.600 was wondering earlier on when we were talking about you know, you have people 124 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.679 with a risky background that are hired, and not only do they have this 125 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.360 kind of isolated world to operate in, but what would you do if they 126 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.000 had known that Rodney had been murdered on in that lab? There's only fifty 127 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.120 people there. Is there a cell designed to hold somebody suspective of abuse or 128 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:43.840 perpetrating crime in the lab with fifty people? Is there really likely a large 129 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:50.360 security force who can supervise and monitor and care for someone who's in custody in 130 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.159 that research lab? Like, I just wonder what would be the protocol when 131 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.799 you have such a small functioning society, like fifty people for months that don't 132 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:03.960 have any outside access. How do you handle people like that? I'm actually 133 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.799 surprised that Agatha Christie has never attempted to make a story about this, like 134 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:11.639 a murder mystery at the Antarctica. I'd love to see like herk gul Perot 135 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:16.200 trying to parachute there and to like solve the murder because they can't get these 136 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.200 people out. Maybe somebody should make a movie about this. It sounds like 137 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.960 a great idea. You know, it's funny. Earlier on I almost made 138 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:26.679 it Agatha Christie comment too, because it's exactly what it reminded me of. 139 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.720 When Ashley was talking about the doctor not knowing and going into the doctor's office. 140 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:33.639 I'm like, oh my gosh, this is just like an Agatha Christie 141 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:39.080 novel, except for we don't know all of the characters that are there, 142 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:41.639 except for you know, the doctor. We know, but it is such 143 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:46.200 a fascinating story and it would make an excellent movie. You're right, Robin. 144 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.639 Now, like the Aminston Scott south Pole station, the McMurdo station is 145 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:56.519 located in the Ross Dependency region, which is under New Zealand claim. But 146 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:01.559 the crime we just mentioned was a clear cut case of one American violently attacking 147 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:07.360 another American, so there was no ambiguity about handling jurisdiction over to the American 148 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:13.559 authorities. But Rodney Mark's case is a lot more complicated because he was an 149 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:18.039 Australian citizen and no one could even be certain if a crime had taken place 150 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:20.840 at all. Well, it doesn't sound like there were any potential suspects. 151 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:26.440 I'm sure that there would be a ton of legal complications if it turned out 152 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:31.200 an American was responsible for his death. There were forty nine other people working 153 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:35.720 at the Aminston Scott station at the time Rodney died, so if foul play 154 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:41.320 did take place, there's your entire pool of suspects. Theoretically, even if 155 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.080 the higher ups of the station had their suspicions that Rodney's death was foul play, 156 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:48.639 I can kind of see why they might be compelled to stay quiet about 157 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:52.960 it and classify his death as natural causes. I mean, if it turned 158 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:58.679 out that someone intentionally poisoned Rodney by slipping methanol into one of his drinks, 159 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:03.840 can you imagine in the panic that might have ensued With no way in or 160 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.279 out of the South Pole for months. This would mean that everyone was trapped 161 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:11.879 there with a murderer, and without knowing that person's identity. The paranoia would 162 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:16.600 have been sky high. It's definitely not uncommon for people to go stir crazy 163 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:22.440 will spending long periods of time at an isolated location. So I'm sure an 164 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.960 unsold homicide would have only exacerbated that. Oh absolutely, you know that if 165 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.159 they had been able to identify. Listen, we have a homicide and something 166 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.240 like a poisoning. There is not that direct contact with a victim, so 167 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:41.039 there's not a presence of forensic science left there. There's very easy ways to 168 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.440 avert an eyewitness knowing what you're doing, and so it becomes a game of 169 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:50.240 clue where it's forty nine people looking at each other and saying, it's one 170 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:52.440 of us in this room. It's one of us in this lab that actually 171 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.960 is responsible for the death of this individual, and now none of us are 172 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.679 safe because we don't know who it is. I'm that's the horror movie right 173 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:07.559 there. That's the murder novel where you gather fifty people one's dead from a 174 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.600 poisoning that we knows a homicide, and all of a sudden, everyone gathered 175 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.440 to learn this information looks at their neighbor and it's like, are you the 176 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.279 killer? And now how do we function when we're trapped here, when we 177 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:24.320 don't have any idea of what could have occurred, especially if it was poisoning 178 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.600 in his drinks, Like no one would want to drink anything at all during 179 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:30.720 that time period. They'd have to be like extra cautious and make sure that 180 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.399 you only open your own bottles and stuff like that, because I cannot imagine 181 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:37.240 the steps to ensure that something like this would happen not happen over the next 182 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:43.759 few months without any law enforcement intervention. Yeah, that food, everything you 183 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.919 know. You would wonder is it tainted, Is it possible that I'm going 184 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.480 to be next? Or do they escalate their acts and not poison next time? 185 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.320 Do they do something that's more personal to see if they can get away 186 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.960 with that. So all of those things would be going through your head. 187 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.879 You'd have to wonder if it would turn into like this Lord of the Flies 188 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:07.679 type situation if it was found out that there was a murder because you don't 189 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:13.559 have any law enforcement intervention. You don't have any legal intervention. It's basically 190 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.960 like you're all stuck in this place and it's so isolated, and you're trying 191 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:22.120 to protect yourself and your fellow humans. So if you believe that somebody who 192 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:28.240 was responsible the lengths or the depths that something could go to, the potential 193 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:33.080 for people to get hurt in that situation would be almost catastrophic. So let's 194 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.200 start talking about Rodney himself. It's interesting how when you look at photos of 195 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:41.720 Rodney online, he's not someone you would visualize being a brilliant scientist, as 196 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:46.200 one particular photo shows him with long, purple dreadlocked hair while he's dressed in 197 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.360 a Sonic Youth T shirt. And of course he performed in a heavy metal 198 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.759 band at the base in his spare time. But it sounds like he was 199 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:56.480 very good at his job and had been doing excellent work on this project before 200 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:01.440 his untimely death. While accounts, Rodney was a very social, likable guy, 201 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.080 and even though one of his colleagues described him as having a dry sense 202 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:09.159 of humor which could sometimes rub people the wrong way, he had such an 203 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.519 affable personality that it was impossible for anyone to ever stay mad at him. 204 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.720 In other words, it doesn't appear like he made any enemies who stood out 205 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.399 as having a motive to murder him. The one theory which has been pretty 206 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:26.240 much completely discounted is Rodney's death being a suicide, as he showed no signs 207 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.320 of depression and really seemed to be enjoying his work. He had also just 208 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.559 fallen in love with one of the women he was stationed with, Sonya Walter, 209 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:37.320 so much so that they were actually planning to get married once they returned 210 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:41.879 to the mainland. While the isolation of spending one year at a remote Antarctic 211 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:48.519 location can definitely lead to depression and mental health issues for some people, Rodney 212 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:52.559 had already gone through this experience once before and seemed to enjoy it so much 213 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.440 that he signed up to do it again. Of Course, as we reiterated 214 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:00.519 on this podcast many times before, just because a person is not show any 215 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:04.240 outward signs of being depressed or unhappy does not necessarily mean that they're not feeling 216 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:10.080 suicidal on the inside. But I think that Rodney's actions prior to his death 217 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:15.039 would rule out that possibility. I mean, for starters, drinking methanol is 218 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.399 an unnecessarily protracted way to die, as it sounds like Rodney went through a 219 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.639 lot of agony during the last thirty six hours of his life. And not 220 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.840 to sound flippant, but if someone's stationed at the South Pole was feeling suicidal, 221 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.759 all they'd have to do is step outside without the proper protective gearon, 222 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:36.360 and everything would be over pretty quickly. I think the fact that Rodney kept 223 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:41.320 visiting the Basis medical facility for treatment shows that he had no intention of suicide. 224 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:45.799 Even if he decided to end things but then changed his mind. I'm 225 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.879 sure Rodney would have told the doctore in just a methanol to increase the chances 226 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.639 of saving his life. Oh, I think absolutely. And when I think 227 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.200 about what could motivate somebody else to hurt him, right, I do not 228 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:00.080 think that Rodney intended to hurt himself. I also think he was in a 229 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.279 place where if he had made a bad decision or consumed something to see if 230 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.160 he could get a better high, or you know, get drunk quicker. 231 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.200 I think given his pain and seeking medical care, he would have told the 232 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.759 doctor. But I do wonder who else was on that base who would have 233 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:19.640 a reason to feel threatened by him. Yes, he was a likable guy, 234 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:23.079 but he's also brilliant. He wouldn't have been there if he wasn't, 235 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:29.759 And you know a lot of those are grant funded positions and esteemed selected positions. 236 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.680 Is there someone who feels threatened by him, feels like he might be 237 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.759 discovering something at a higher level than they are, or is it related to 238 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.960 his love interest that's on the base? Is someone resentful of that? Is 239 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:47.440 someone also interested in her? Could someone have been interested in him and they 240 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:52.519 didn't have an opportunity. There's other reasons that someone could look at an individual 241 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.440 like Rodney and say, in these short months, I've developed a hatred for 242 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:03.000 him via competition, either romantically or professionally, And you could see somebody having 243 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.920 that motivation when you couple that with I remember reading that the base at this 244 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.119 time, like we know that Rodney was a heavy drinker, but that there 245 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.000 was a lot of heavy drinking going on in general, and that alcohol was 246 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.920 provided to them. Did you hear that, Robin, Oh, yeah, 247 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:21.319 definitely. Like they've always said that alcohol is essential to be able to stay 248 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.640 there for like six months in the winter darkness. You need alcohol to get 249 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:29.000 through it. And I'm sure some people would have developed genuine alcohol problems. 250 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.119 And when you add somebody having dry sense of humor onto that equation, there 251 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.480 could be any number of motivations somebody could have felt, like you know, 252 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.480 he insulted them or wronged them in some way, or like Ashley said, 253 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:45.079 they could have been jealous of his brilliance or of his fiance. They might 254 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.160 have wanted Sonia for themselves. There's any number of motivations, but will never 255 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:55.359 truly know because none of these individuals have been formally questioned or interviewed, and 256 00:18:55.400 --> 00:19:00.880 we only have thirteen of the forty nine people who actually submitted the mail in 257 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:08.039 questionnaire, so we've got so little information here. One alternate theory which was 258 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:11.960 proposed is that Rodney could have drank some methanol in order to get a major 259 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.839 buzz or something. But I'm sure he would have said something once his illness 260 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:21.200 got really bad. So I have to agree with the New Zealand Police's assessment 261 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:26.559 that no matter what happened, it seems very likely that Rodney ingusted the methanol 262 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.680 unknowingly. Now it's certainly possible that there was no foul play here and that 263 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:37.160 Rodney did consume some methanol accidentally. Rodney was described as loving as alcohol, 264 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.519 but you could probably say that about most of the personnel at the station, 265 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.480 since it sounds like drinking like we just said, was an essential aspect of 266 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:48.400 getting through these long South Pole winters. In fact, while sharing her experience 267 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:52.480 there on a blog, Sonya Walter once wrote, quote, I'm not aware 268 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.440 of any AA meetings taking place, although it wouldn't be a bad idea for 269 00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:02.079 quite a few people here end quote. Rodney was also described as being a 270 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:06.000 binge drinker at times, though most people would have stopped short of calling him 271 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.599 an alcoholic. I'll just add that at this time, substance use disorder wasn't 272 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.400 the proper terminology like it what like it is today, So just calling somebody 273 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:18.640 an alcoholic would have been what they would have done at the time. Oh 274 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:23.000 yeah, yeah. And he had no less than eighteen bottles of liquor inside 275 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:26.559 his room at the time of his death, and there were also around twenty 276 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:32.559 empty bottles for both alcohol and lab agents on his desk. So could it 277 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.680 be possible that Rodney mistook a bottle of methanol for liquor and drank it. 278 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.720 I mean, Rodney was described as a very cautious person who wouldn't have made 279 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.480 a mistake like that. But while when you're drunk, your personal judgment can 280 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:51.720 be heavily affected However, since it was months before anyone could arrive at the 281 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:55.920 station to pick up Rodney's body, all of those bottles, as well as 282 00:20:55.960 --> 00:21:00.839 a number of other pieces of potential evidence, were tossed out before anyone even 283 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:07.279 considered the possibility of a homicide investigation. Consider this, they're on this base 284 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.680 where, like you guys said, you almost have to drink to get through 285 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:12.160 it, Like you don't, right, sobriety is definitely an option, but 286 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.960 it is one of the entertainment ways that people would cope with the mental health 287 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:23.359 of being away from family and in this bizarre climate of being more social than 288 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.799 they might normally be. This is a bunch of scientists together, so you 289 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:32.200 know, like it lubricates the social freedoms that they might not normally feel. 290 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.799 And he's in a rock band. He's in two different kind of bands as 291 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.480 well, and so well, it sounds like a lot of alcohol. Eighteen 292 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:44.400 bottles of liquor and then these empty bottles as well. Could he have also 293 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.640 been the person that was almost like their personal bartender and party host. He's 294 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.920 quirky and fun, and he's in a band. Could he have had multiple 295 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.440 options for people to come by his room and he'll make a drink or like 296 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.000 people come to his room and hang out. There's many possible abilities that one 297 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:06.920 he stocked up for a year long stay and that's why there's not much alcohol, 298 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:11.920 or could he have entertained other people in alcohol is one of those means 299 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.640 as well. And then it's not quite as crazy that you go, wow, 300 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.480 that's a lot for a single individual. Yeah, that's never been specified, 301 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.160 but he does sound like the type of person who would invite people privately 302 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.279 to his room in order to hang out and drink because he was such an 303 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:30.799 affable person. And if there were any suspects who like showed up spent a 304 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:33.720 lot of time in his room drinking with them, they would seem like logical 305 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.359 people to have possibly poisoned his drinks. But of course, because these people 306 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.000 were never questioned, we don't know that information. And I remember reading so 307 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:48.240 I don't know if this is correct that the facility provided alcohol for the employees 308 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.599 as like an incentive to you know, be like, hey, you're gonna 309 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:53.279 come here, but there's going to be booze type of a thing. And 310 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:57.000 if that was the case, and we know that Rodney is this outgoing, 311 00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:00.960 affable person, who's like the life of the Maybe, like you said, 312 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.519 Ash, he has a bunch of the bottles in his room and it just 313 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:10.000 happens to be a regular meeting place where everybody goes to kick back and have 314 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:15.880 a few drinks after they finish their day. Of course, due to jurisdictional 315 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.599 issues, the New Zealand Police only got to question a handful of people who 316 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.799 were stationed at the base, and most of those interactions were done by questionnaires 317 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:27.440 which were pre screened by the National Science Foundation. Even if Rodney was not 318 00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:32.599 the victim of an intentional homicide, it's possible his death was the result of 319 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:37.160 negligence on someone's part, which is why the NSF and their employees have been 320 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.839 very uncooperative about the whole thing. I mean, the agency claimed they conducted 321 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.880 their own internal investigation, but they've never turned their findings over to the New 322 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.400 Zealand Police or even provided any evidence to prove this investigation actually took place. 323 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.200 And since the New Zealand Police's coronial inquest was described as informal, the US 324 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.960 Department of Justice flat out told them that they had noah Tha authority to force 325 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:06.200 the NSF to do anything. This sounds like a major catch twenty two because 326 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.759 in order for this to happen, the New Zealand police would have to uncover 327 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:14.960 conclusive evidence that the NSF or Raytheon were complicit in a crime. But there's 328 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.559 very little chance of obtaining this evidence without the cooperation. Exactly and months later, 329 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:23.039 when you actually found out you needed to go back and ask questions and 330 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:29.359 do interviews and gather evidence. I just feel like almost every entity, whether 331 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:33.799 they had true intent and desire to know the truth, almost had to know 332 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.839 from the onset that there's no way to get to the bottom of this, 333 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:44.400 and you're not going to get valuable information from a questionnaire that has been scrutinized 334 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:49.279 and approved to limit liability and the public relation nightmare that the NSF wouldn't want 335 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:55.680 to occur once they discover that it's a suspected homicide. So it's just a 336 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.839 mess from the get go, and you see for years there is this question 337 00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:02.240 of so like, can we do more? Should we be doing more? 338 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:04.599 How do we do more? And by the time it's eight years later, 339 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.559 people are starting to say, guys, we almost have to hang this up. 340 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:12.759 I don't see how we're going to get answers in this case. One 341 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:18.799 of the most controversial figures in this whole ordeal is the base physician, doctor 342 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.279 Robert Thompson, who's been the subject of heavy criticism for how he handled the 343 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:29.200 situation once Rodney became seriously ill. In particular, he's been criticized for his 344 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:33.799 failure to maintain and use the ectecum machine, which could have potentially detected the 345 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:38.680 methanol in Rodney's bloodstream before it was too late. It sounds like the fate 346 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:42.799 of doctor Thompson has sort of become a mystery within a mystery, because after 347 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:48.000 numerous failed attempts by the New Zealand police to track him down and get him 348 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.720 to testify at the inquest, his current whereabouts were described as unknown. Of 349 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:57.160 course, I would be interested to know if Thompson genuinely believed that Rodney's death 350 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:03.200 was natural causes, or if he decided to keep any personal suspicions to himself 351 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.759 in order to avoid a potential panic at the Base. I highly doubt that 352 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.640 Thompson was directly involved in some sort of murder conspiracy, but I can see 353 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:17.400 why he would be inclined to avoid answering questions about how he handled the situation 354 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:22.640 in case of potential liability issues. Thompson did originally provide a report about how 355 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.599 the situation with Rodney played out, but it would have been very useful to 356 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:32.799 get his clarification on certain things. One particular oddity which has stood out in 357 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:37.319 this case are the two needle marks found on Rodney's right arm. Since Rodney 358 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.240 was given separate injections of halidahal and another sedative prior to his death, you 359 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.640 might assume this was the source of the needle marks, but Thompson apparently said 360 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:52.039 they were already there before he made the injections. Rodney allegedly admitted to interveno 361 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:55.440 his drug use in the past, but since he was right handed, it 362 00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:59.279 is strange that the marks would be on his right arm. Whatever the case, 363 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.839 there were no illegal drugs found in Rodney's system during the autopsy, and 364 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:08.599 while a theory has been proposed that perhaps he attempted to take some alcohol intravenously, 365 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.279 it sounds like the coroner was pretty certain the methanol was ingested, not 366 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:18.160 injected. It's possible the needle marks have no significance to the case at all, 367 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.880 but again, it would have been useful for Thompson to provide testimony in 368 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.039 order to clarify some of these points. While NSF said that they had a 369 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:32.920 zero tolerance policy for drug use, there have been multiple reports of marijuana being 370 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.640 used and grown at the station, which shouldn't be too surprising, But as 371 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:41.119 far as we know, there have never been any confirmed reports of usage of 372 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:45.079 heroin or any hard drugs which would have required a needle. If doctor Thompson 373 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:49.079 is telling the truth, which I don't see why he would not tell the 374 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:56.000 truth, then Rodney was transparent that he was experimenting with different drugs at a 375 00:27:56.039 --> 00:28:02.640 party and several months earlier, and so if he had done that prior to 376 00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:07.079 ever coming into Antarctica, it's possible if he truly was experimenting and this was 377 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:10.599 not something he did on a normal basis, that he wasn't the one even 378 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:15.480 injecting the intravenous drugs. That's someone who was a more experienced drug user and 379 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:19.880 someone helping him to learn how to inject those drugs was the one who actually 380 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:22.960 did that for him. But he shared that and he said, yeah, 381 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.599 look I do drink, but it was two days ago. Yeah, those 382 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:33.200 are totally old needle marks that I was experimenting with drugs back home, And 383 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:40.559 so I don't feel like the doctor here has any nefarious desires. I think 384 00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:45.200 he was presented with a case that presented more like a common illness, like 385 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.160 a virus that has really taken hold of him, a really bad flu and 386 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:55.000 a migraine, and he's thinking of what is Rodney's typical medical history, anxiety, 387 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:59.960 panic attacks, tourette's self medicating. Okay, this could be a result 388 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.440 of either withdraws or an extreme mental health episode, right, even the physical 389 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.000 effects of vomiting and the blood and things like that. And so to me, 390 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.720 given what he knew, given what he had access to, most of 391 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.920 me thinks he was trying to do the best he could in the moment, 392 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:18.759 trying to get external people to call in and help consult on the case, 393 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.880 but racing against a clock, knowing there's something wrong, his health's declining, 394 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:27.920 and I don't know what else to try. Yeah, And since doctor Thompson's 395 00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:33.039 whereabouts are described as unknown and nobody had any luck tracking him down, I've 396 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:37.680 always been curious if he's even aware that Rodney's case was. They found that 397 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.680 he died of methanol poisoning, and that his case has gotten so much publicity 398 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.319 and is so dissected. I mean, for all he knows, he could 399 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.640 have just moved on with his life. Assume Rodney died of natural causes and 400 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:52.759 that no one is paying any attention to it now. Even though there was 401 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.480 a large supply of alcohol available at the base, it apparently wasn't uncommon for 402 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:02.519 people stationed there to operate their own still to make moonshine. After all, 403 00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:06.400 if you're living in complete isolation in the middle of nowhere for an entire year, 404 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:12.000 even drinking traditional alcohol can become monotonous. Apparently, one particularly popular brand 405 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:17.519 of homemade alcohol, which was often brewed at the base was called Toast Juice, 406 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:21.319 and it's been reported that the New Zealand Police was able to obtain a 407 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:26.160 bottle of Toast Juice for ESR testing and discovered that it was seventy one percent 408 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.000 pure alcohol. The Toast Juice was also reportedly discounted as being the source of 409 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:34.279 the methanol in Rodney's body. But if people at the base were frequently brewing 410 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.160 their own alcohol, you can see how something might have gone horribly wrong. 411 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:44.319 Even if the Toast Juice did not contain methanol. Rodney still could have consumed 412 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.599 some homemade moonshine containing methanol without even realizing it. But then again, if 413 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:52.960 Rodney did something like that and had any inkling that it could have been the 414 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.960 source of the illness he was experiencing, would he have said something to doctor 415 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:00.079 Thompson. I mean, while he may have gotten into trouble for consuming or 416 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:04.559 making moonshine, his life was on the line here, oh absolutely, And 417 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:08.680 he was trying to get help. He was scared, and so the only 418 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:12.960 thing they knew to do was to sedate him and give him a how doll. 419 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.680 And if that is the response, right, it's like he's he's scared, 420 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.160 he's panicking. I feel like he would have been as helpful as possible, 421 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.359 begging for help and saying, you know what about this? Could it 422 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.880 have been this? You know, doc, what's wrong? If he knew 423 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.799 I just ingested some homemade moonshine. I don't think he's worried about any kind 424 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:40.920 of criminal or career liability at that point. Pure alcohol, my god. 425 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:48.640 We're particularly intrigued by the theory involving the mysterious bottle of liquor that Rodney brought 426 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.920 to the base with him, containing a label which appeared to feature Portuguese writing. 427 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.480 The bottle was never found, but there were multiple witnesses who were called 428 00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.200 seeing it, and if it was thrown away, then this implies that the 429 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.720 liquor was consumed before Rodney's death, and if it happened to be tainted liquor 430 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.039 containing methanol, then Rodney may not have had any inkling that it was causing 431 00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:12.640 his illness since he obtained it before he even arrived at the South Pole. 432 00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:16.680 According to the World Health Organization, tainted alcohol can lead to as many as 433 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:22.839 three hundred deaths per year from acute methanol poisoning. On our last episode, 434 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.799 we made reference to a two thousand and nine article about this case in Men's 435 00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:30.400 Journal, and it made reference to an incident where a sherpa wound up dying 436 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:36.400 at a base camp at Mount Everest after drinking methanyl tainted whiskey. If that's 437 00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.920 what happened, then technically no one from the base had any complicity in Rodney's 438 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.920 death, but without having the bottle to test his evidence, it would be 439 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:49.720 impossible to know for sure. But of course this theory is pure speculation, 440 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:54.160 and we cannot rule out the possibility that something else led to Rodney's poisoning and 441 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:59.319 someone from the base knows the truth and is never talked. If it is 442 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.400 that bottle, there's just zero way of being able to trace that back. 443 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:07.920 I mean, not really understanding the time that's passed and when he acquired that, 444 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:13.240 and if there were surveillance cameras of someone replacing it on the shelf as 445 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.279 a tainted bottle versus the regular bottle, all that would have been gone, 446 00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:20.599 you know, a year after the purchase. Remember he came I believe in 447 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.920 December, the year before he died, and then his body is held almost 448 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:30.920 until you know, the winter again a year later. So no one was 449 00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.720 going to have information about that tainted bottle, even from the store that it 450 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.799 was purchased from a year later. Okay, I'm confused about the statistic with 451 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:44.640 the chanted alcohol. Do they mean that it is three hundred people die from 452 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:49.160 tainted alcohol that is bought commercially or do they mean that three hundred people die 453 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:52.480 from tainted alcohol that they could have potentially homebrewed. They've never specified that. 454 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:57.319 I think that was just like a statistic they put in the Men's Journal article. 455 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.160 But yeah, that'd be interesting because if it was home brewed alcohol, 456 00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:06.279 how can you really know for sure if it was tainted. Yeah, it 457 00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.800 says that most cases of methanol poisoning and this is not for men's health, 458 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:14.320 This is from a science journal, but it says are a result of drinking 459 00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:21.360 home brewed alcohol. Methanol is either deliberately added to strengthen the informally produced alcohol, 460 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:28.000 or it's left in the brew because of poor cleaning and distillery practices. 461 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:30.960 Aren't you supposed to like pour off the top when you make like a homebrew 462 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:35.800 or moonshine or something, and that pours off the methanol. I don't know. 463 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:37.920 I think people used to die alcohol. I don't. I don't remember. 464 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:45.559 You're from the South, you should know now. So one theory which 465 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:47.840 has been pushed forward is that Rodney's death was the result of a prank on 466 00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:52.199 horribly wrong. I mean, lacing someone's drink with methanol seems like a pretty 467 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:57.480 stupid idea for a practical joke. But people don't always make the best decisions 468 00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:00.960 when they're drunk and have been living in isolation from That's why it's such a 469 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.760 shame that Rodney did not receive a proper autopsy to find the methanol in his 470 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.119 system until over six months after his death, because by that point, the 471 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:13.400 forty nine other people who had been stationed at the base had all gone their 472 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.599 separate ways and were scattered all over the world. The key to figuring out 473 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:20.760 what happened to Rodney would be at a pinpoint, the last time he took 474 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.800 a drink. When Rodney was being examined by doctor Thompson, he said he 475 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:28.239 hadn't taken a drink in nearly two days. But where did this drink take 476 00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:30.440 place? Was it in the privacy of his own room, or was it 477 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:35.800 at a social event with numerous people. Did someone else have the opportunity to 478 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.679 handle one of Rodney's drinks before they gave it to him. If this had 479 00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:44.199 occurred anywhere else besides the South Pole, law enforcement probably would have gotten involved 480 00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:49.480 immediately and backtracked Rodney's movements to try and determine where and when he took the 481 00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:53.199 fatal drink containing the methanol. But after more than six months, figuring out 482 00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:58.880 something like this would pretty much be impossible, particularly since only a small fraction 483 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:02.079 of the basis personnel. We're willing to answer questions from the New Zealand police. 484 00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:07.119 If someone wanted to murder Rodney, poisoning one of his drinks would be 485 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.639 the absolute perfect way to do so, because methanol is odorless and known for 486 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.599 having a taste that resembles vodka, so Rodney would have never even noticed. 487 00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:19.840 But I guess the issue is that Rodney had one hundred and fifty milliliters of 488 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:22.320 methanol in his system, which is about enough to fill a wine glass. 489 00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.679 So I have to wonder what he was drinking to be able to consume that 490 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.320 much without realizing it, my goodness, and for how long? And if 491 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:37.559 someone's sitting there deliberately poisoning multiple beverages for him, that's incredibly disturbing and very 492 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.719 risky as well. I had no idea it was that much to fill a 493 00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:45.800 wine glass. So for me, if he's sitting there and he's having multiple 494 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.880 drinks that are being tainted, it can take, I believe, up to 495 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:55.920 like seventy two hours for methanol to finally shut somebody's body down if it's a 496 00:36:55.960 --> 00:37:01.400 high dose like that. So he is presenting me symptom what forty eight hours 497 00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:06.559 after he's had his last drink. But it's such a high level. Do 498 00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.519 you is there any way that that medically could have metabolized in his system and 499 00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:15.119 it actually seems like more than what it was like, could that at all 500 00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.880 be a possibility, or when it was mixed with other drugs that it seems 501 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.400 to have thrown off the chemical I don't know, makeup of his body. 502 00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.039 That just seems like so much. I'm not entirely sure. I mean, 503 00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.920 it was six months after he died when they finally found those millileaters, so 504 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:36.760 I'm not sure if the body does produce methanol after someone dies. But they 505 00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.159 did say that it had a vodka taste, so it could be a thing 506 00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:45.000 where someone literally poured a glass of methanol and told Rodney it was vodka and 507 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.360 that's how he consumed so much. Well, that's true, And you could 508 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:51.000 also if you have a mixer with it that dolls, you know, pretty 509 00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:53.519 heavy, like an orange juice or something like that, it wouldn't it wouldn't 510 00:37:53.519 --> 00:38:00.480 be as suspicious either. Now we mentioned earlier, but no less than eighteen 511 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:06.320 liquor bottles were found inside Rodney's room, So theoretically, if someone wanted to 512 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.679 sneak into his room and slip methanol into his liquor to poison him, How 513 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:14.400 would they know which bottle to choose. In order for a murder plot to 514 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:17.559 work, the perpetrator would need to be certain that Rodney was drinking a specific 515 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.679 beverage at a specific time, which is why it would have been so useful 516 00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:27.360 to piece together Rodney's drinking habits in the days preceding his death. But of 517 00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:31.199 course that still doesn't answer the question about who would have had a potential motive 518 00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:35.679 to harm Rodney. Well, you might have noticed that we haven't made much 519 00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:40.199 mention of his fiance, Sonia Walter. Sonia refused to give interviews following Rodney's 520 00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:45.199 death, but she did provide evidence at the coronial inquest and would continue to 521 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:51.039 return to Antarctica to work lengthy stints there. It seems like she was content 522 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.480 to put the whole incident behind her and move on with her life, and 523 00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:59.119 for all we know, she might genuinely believe there was no foul play involved. 524 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.000 Certainly don't have any reason to suspect Sonya and anything, but I can't 525 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.039 help but wonder if their relationship might have set someone else off. Even though 526 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:13.760 an isolated research station in the South Pole sounds like an unusual place to meet 527 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.880 your soulmate, it sounds like Rodney and Sonya fell head over heels in love 528 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:21.199 with each other and seemed to be a perfect match. I mean, the 529 00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:25.679 couple had literally not spent any time together in normal civilization before they decided that 530 00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:30.880 they wanted to get married. But what if there was someone at the base 531 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:35.000 who had feelings for Sonya and became jealous. I mean, this is not 532 00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.440 an environment where you could just move on if you see someone you like with 533 00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:43.559 another partner. If anyone had issues with seeing Rodney and Sonya together, it's 534 00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:46.760 not like they could just avoid the situation, as there were pretty much trapped 535 00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:52.000 there for another six months. I have to wonder if this could have driven 536 00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:55.159 someone to murder. But once again, this is all just pure speculation, 537 00:39:55.400 --> 00:40:00.480 since I have not heard any stories about someone having issues with Rodney and Sonya's 538 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:06.800 relationship or any friction ever developing over it at the base. I would love 539 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.199 to go back in time and figure out what the social scenario was there. 540 00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:15.400 I mean, they're playing these bands, they're having these concerts there. Drinking 541 00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.880 is a very common pastime for everybody. I don't know why, in my 542 00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.000 gut, I almost feel as if somebody was saying, oh, let me 543 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.719 run make you a drink. And his room really was like a sub bar 544 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.360 where you can run in there, mix a drink and a cocktail, run 545 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:35.760 back out to the show where he's playing music and everyone's having fun. And 546 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:37.960 so if someone wanted to go help him by getting a drink, they could 547 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:44.440 have easily poison it and known exactly which alcohol to select. It seems crazy 548 00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.599 that you would decide to taint a whole bottle because there is a risk that 549 00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:50.800 your target isn't the one that consumes it. Sonia could have consumed it. 550 00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:52.400 One of the other band members could have consumed it, one of the other 551 00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:57.800 researchers could have You might have accidentally been served by that bottle. So I 552 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.079 would more see someone say let me run get you and they bring it to 553 00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:06.519 him, and that's how he's able to consume it. If he was performing 554 00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:09.519 a few nights earlier, it's very possible someone was a runner running to get 555 00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:14.639 him some drinks. Now, one thing I'd like to know is was there 556 00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.519 anyone else at the base who started hitting on Sonya after Rodney died, or 557 00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:22.159 making attempts to comfort her and say I'll be there for you no matter what. 558 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.000 I mean. I haven't heard information about her getting involved in another relationship, 559 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.920 but I'd like to find out if someone was paying extra special attention to 560 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.679 Sonya after Rodney passed away, because that would make them look like a promising 561 00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:38.639 suspect, oh for sure. Or was Rodney getting special attention or special notoriety 562 00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:45.039 in praise for research he was doing that could equally make somebody angry. I 563 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:47.480 mean, I certainly hope that Rodney's death wasn't a murder, because if it 564 00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.480 was, the responsible party has done a very successful job at getting away with 565 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:57.280 it. If the New Zealand police somehow uncovered evidence which pointed to a specific 566 00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.159 suspect, I can only imagine the red tape which might be involved in order 567 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:05.159 to make an arrest and bring them to trial. While I discount the suicide 568 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:08.679 theory, and I'm pretty certain that Rodney was completely unaware that he ingested methanol, 569 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.960 I really don't think there's enough conclusive evidence to point towards his death being 570 00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:17.599 a homicide or some sort of freak accident such as drinking taint and moonshine. 571 00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:21.840 But if it's the latter, then I do have to wonder if there are 572 00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:23.960 some people from the base who have always known more than they let on. 573 00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:30.599 Detective Senior Sergeant Wormold speculated that there might have been some employees from the NSApp 574 00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.840 and raytheon who did not want to cooperate because they feared it could affect through 575 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.639 employment prospects. It's quite sad that Rodney's family have stated that they've pretty much 576 00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:43.119 come to terms with the fact that they might not receive any answers about what 577 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:46.480 happened to him, and given the jurisdictional issues, there's not really anything they 578 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:51.360 can do about it. So much time has passed that if someone knows something, 579 00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:53.880 I really wish they would come forward to at least put the Marx family 580 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:59.280 at peace and assure them that there isn't somebody out there getting away with murder. 581 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:04.039 However, if the solution is something like Rodney being poisoned by a tainted 582 00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:07.239 bottle of liquor he purchased elsewhere before he arrived at the base, then we 583 00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:12.199 will probably never know the truth. All that being said, if you happen 584 00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:16.000 to have any information about the unexplained death of Rodney Marx. Please contact the 585 00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:22.519 appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley, any final thoughts on the case. I'm gonna 586 00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:24.239 have to piggyback off you, Robin. When we talk about the family, 587 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:30.440 they said, quote, it seems impossible, right, practically impossible that we 588 00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:36.280 could ever find answers here and to know exactly what happened to our Rodney. 589 00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.440 And like we talked about earlier, Rodney had called home, not just to 590 00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:45.239 share that he's fine and doing well in Antarctica and he is soaring in his 591 00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:51.239 professional duties, but hey, mom and Dad, I'm bringing home a girl 592 00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:54.960 who I'm marrying. I'm engaged, I am starting to grow my family. 593 00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:59.119 You have a daughter in law who can't wait to meet you. I mean, 594 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:02.360 this is such an exciting time in their son's life. And then he 595 00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:08.519 tragically dies from what they think is cardiac arrest. And so imagine processing your 596 00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:14.920 young son's death and just thinking, wow, what are the odds that our 597 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:20.360 healthy son goes to this research place that he's been so many times before and 598 00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:24.159 his body just gives out. It's wild to process. They're sitting there waiting 599 00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:28.400 for his body and his remains to come back so that they can give him 600 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.320 proper burial, and then they get him back in their care. They check 601 00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.880 an autopsy off the list, which is usually required when there's a sudden death 602 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:42.840 of a young individual, and it's methanol poisoning. So in their gut, 603 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.480 they are not grieving a tragic natural death, which has its own set of 604 00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:52.119 coping mechanisms and grief kind of processes that go with it. Now they have 605 00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:57.000 a question mark not only of like tell me what happened, But it's really 606 00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:00.440 hard to understand, Like you said, is it murder? Is it ambern 607 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:04.599 with something? Could it have been the result of something at that lab? 608 00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:07.960 Was it prior to him getting there, that he was exposed to something. 609 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:14.159 There's no answers or guidance for them, And so to now process what was 610 00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:19.280 odd and crazy and tragic before a young man dying of natural causes, Now 611 00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:23.599 it sets off a whole nother journey of what even happened? Like what senseless 612 00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:29.360 thing happened that robbed us of time? Not just with Rodney, but remember 613 00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.599 they lost so much more than that. They lost Sonia, They lost potential 614 00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:37.960 kids that they could have had together. The family lost big time when they 615 00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:42.519 buried their son, and so to not have answers is difficult. To feel 616 00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:46.920 like institutions that your son gave his career in life to weren't really protecting his 617 00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:51.559 best interest. All of that has to be so harmful. So my prayer 618 00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.920 would be that one day there is some kind of clarity for the family. 619 00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.639 But at this point it's so sad to say that I almost side with the 620 00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:05.679 family and it says it's quote practically impossible to know what happened. Yeah, 621 00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:10.039 I agree unless there is somebody who comes forward. And the one person that 622 00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:15.599 I'm just so interested in is yes, the doctor is interesting, but I 623 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:17.880 don't think he had anything to do with it. I think there was potentially 624 00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:23.079 just some negligence on his ecticam machine that he didn't recalibrate it or keep it 625 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:29.000 up to date. But it's the person who was anonymous and wrote in the 626 00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:32.719 suggestion that they check into the liquor bottle with the that was shaped like a 627 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:37.920 shrimp or had a shrimp on it and potentially Portuguese writing. And I'd said, 628 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:42.400 well, maybe it was misdirection, and Ashley said, well, maybe 629 00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:45.679 they did the poisoning, and they did it in that bottle and so they're 630 00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:49.920 like cantin there. It is, so it could be any number of things, 631 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:54.400 and maybe that person was anonymous because of the corporation. Maybe they worked 632 00:46:54.400 --> 00:47:00.239 for Raytheon or the NSF and they didn't want to have their job put into 633 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:04.440 jeopardy, or potentially they had something to do with it, and there's a 634 00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:09.079 more nefarious angle there. But it is so heartbreaking in this situation, it's 635 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:14.440 literally like an Agather Christiane novel, but for the family, it's a very 636 00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:21.119 real situation where their loved one goes He's brilliant, this brilliant astrophysicist who clearly 637 00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:23.840 has struggled with drugs in the past. You know, you don't casually do 638 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:29.719 intervenous drugs, and he'd gotten himself to a place where maybe that's one of 639 00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.719 the reasons that he liked being in that arctica. If you're somebody who'd struggled 640 00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.519 with drug use and you know that it's going to be a drug free environment, 641 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.280 then you basically only have access to alcohol. So I can see how 642 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:45.480 that would be comforting in some way for somebody who may struggle with that, 643 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:50.360 And I just I find this case so frustrating. We have so little information 644 00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:54.840 here, and I Just've got nothing else to say except for I really hope 645 00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:00.480 that somebody comes forward if it is indeed murder, because this family really and 646 00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:04.719 truly deserves to know what happened to Rodney. Yeah, in our last episode, 647 00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:07.360 we used the word unprecedented to describe this case, because I can guarantee 648 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.960 you We're not going to find another case like this throughout the entire world. 649 00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:15.559 And that is the problem. That is the big obstacle for getting it solved, 650 00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:19.079 Because if we had a situation like this where someone was in an isolated 651 00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:23.239 location and diet under suspicious circumstances, they'd be able to launch an investigation quickly, 652 00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:28.239 question everyone else was there, collect the evidence, and even if it 653 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.000 was never solved, at least you could know that the best possible investigation was 654 00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:36.199 being performed. But that was just not an option here because they could not 655 00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.400 figure out Rodney's cause of death for six months, they could only question a 656 00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:45.079 handful of the people who were actually present at the station. All the evidence 657 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:49.360 which could have pointed towards homicide had since been disposed of. So it's like 658 00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:52.519 the only way this could be solved after all this time is if there is 659 00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:58.039 someone from the station who knows the truth about what happened and decides to come 660 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.679 forward and develops the content. But if this is a case where Rodney just 661 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:07.159 drank a tainted bottle of liquor, then there's any did it alone without the 662 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:10.119 company of anyone else, then there's no way to conclusively solve this. So 663 00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:15.239 it's kind of a terrible situation for the family where you really don't hope that 664 00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:17.599 this wasn't a homicide and that someone is getting away with it. But if 665 00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:22.199 it was not, then there's no way to provide the family with conclusive answers. 666 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:27.480 I mean, it is good that they've acknowledged that they may not get 667 00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:30.800 any conclusive answers, because well, that's a terrible situation. I guess that 668 00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:35.880 is better that they have come to terms with that fact, but it would 669 00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:39.960 be nice if they could get a more conclusive resolution. I myself, I 670 00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:44.440 am kind of on the fence. I mean, under almost circumstances, I 671 00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:47.320 would automatically assume this was a murder, this is an intentional poisoning. But 672 00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:53.360 because we don't have any information about potential suspects, motive or like a means 673 00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:57.639 to carry out the crime, then we just can't say that for certainty. 674 00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:02.079 I cannot rule out the possibility that this was some sort of just accidental poisoning, 675 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:07.000 just a tragic accident. But until someone comes forward, we will probably 676 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:09.920 never know the full truth and this will be literally one of the coldest cold 677 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:15.320 cases to ever exist. Robin, do you want to tell us a little 678 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:19.239 bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes. The Trail Cold Patreon has 679 00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.840 been around for three years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like 680 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:28.639 early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign thank you 681 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:31.440 cards to anyone who signs up with us on Patreon if you join our five 682 00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:37.119 dollars tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk 683 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:42.079 about cases which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so 684 00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.079 they're exclusive to Patreon, and if you join our highest tier tier free, 685 00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:50.679 the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is a audio commentary 686 00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:54.599 track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries, where you can download an audio file 687 00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:00.639 and then boot up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime YouTube and play 688 00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:05.679 it with my audio commentary playing in the background where I just provide trivia and 689 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.400 factoids about the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first 690 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:14.679 episode that I did a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. 691 00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.559 So if you want to download a commentary track in which I make more smart 692 00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:22.679 ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join Tier three. So 693 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:24.960 I want to let you know a little bit about the Jewles and Nashty patreons. 694 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.840 So there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got 695 00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:32.400 our Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so they're not 696 00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:36.559 very mini, but they're just too short to turn into a series, and 697 00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:39.320 we're really enjoying doing those, so we hope you'll check out those patreons. 698 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:43.519 We'll link them in the show notes. So I want to thank you all 699 00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:45.880 for listening, and any chance you have to share us on social media with 700 00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:50.480 a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciate it. You can email 701 00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:53.400 us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter 702 00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:58.280 at the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle up because 703 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.679 cold trails and chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from 704 00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:04.400 the podcast Cold Callers comedy