WEBVTT

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Uf Podcast. Okay, so welcome
to the UFO Thinker Podcast, part of

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the Cohen Albans Cab Network. My
name is Frank and let's get cracking with

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today's episode. So today we've got
with us a very special guest. Dave

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Holdrin is the chairman and lead investigator
for Birmingham UFO group known as BOO FOG

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and the United Kingdom Deputy Representative for
the International Coalition for Extraterrestrial Research ISA.

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He regularly writes for UFO Truce magazine
and has previously written for a number of

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other magazines, and he has spoken
at many well known conferences and given educational

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classes on UFO investigation on television and
radio numerous times, and even designed a

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UFO themed card game. Since two
thousand and eight, Dave has directly investigated

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hundreds of sightings and contact experiences from
around the world. He believes that the

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evidence available as do I, of
course, points towards regular interaction between numerous

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advanced extraterrestrial intelligences and the human race. So Dave, very glad to have

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you with us. How are you
doing today? So thanks Rank here doing

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great and love you to speak on
the show. Yeah, great to have

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you here, and obviously from what
I've mentioned there in the intro, you

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yourself have been pretty heavily involved now
in a topic for quite some time.

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I always like to I always like
to ask a little bit of a background,

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if you don't mind of what youse, I suppose what got you into

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the UFO topic in the first place
and kind of led you know to where

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you are today. It's a fascinating
world that we live in, and I

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think many people in their childhoods can
have kind of general interest in UFOs and

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the wider areas of the paranormal.
And that's how it started for me,

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just reading books on the subject,
not just UFOs, in other things,

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ghosts, bigfoot, whatever, just
really fascinated by all. But the more

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I started to look into the UFO
angle specifically, the more evidence I was

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seeing for the reality of it.
I just thought, there's just so many

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cases on record, really really good
cases with compelling evidence and testimony, and

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it can't all be fabricated hoaxes.
You know, there's going to be some

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hoaxes and that sort of thing and
misidentifications out there, of course, but

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there's just so many. There's like
thousands of cases on record, and it

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just seems it seems overwhelming the evidence
to support the reality of this actually going

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on on a global basis. I
started to realize that in my kind of

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early teenage years, and it wasn't
until the creation of Birmingham UFO Group in

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late two thousand and seven was my
driving force to start actively investigating the subject.

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Before then, I just had a
big interest. I used to go

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to conferences regularly with Your Phone magazine
that as many other others to do out

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there, but it was always kind
of a calling for me, I think,

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and with Birmingham ufoone group that gave
me the chance I needed to become

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an active investigator. I kind of
liked the idea of investigating for an organization

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rather than just kind of being like
Dave Hadrian investigator in UFOs, which obviously

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I could have done many many years
before that. But Birmingham UFOE Group they

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soon after starting. It wasn't actually
started by me. I wasn't the original

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chairman of the group of two other
people with the initial chairmen, and they

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were after somebody who would be able
to become the official investigator for the group

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essentially and start speaking with witnesses writing
up case Reports, and that's how it

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began for me and a couple of
years later on after that, I then

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took over chairman duties of the group
as well since summer two thousand and nine

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and I've been running it ever since. Yeah, amazing, Thanks, And

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I actually first saw your talk at
the UFO identified Mini Con a few years

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back now actually, and I think
I've caught a few of your other talks

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that you've done, and I think
we've we've spoken to each other at a

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few of these events. Greater,
Finally, great to finally have you on

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the on the show, and anyone
in the Northwest area or beyond if you

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fancy a bit of a road trip, definitely worth going seeing one of Davis's

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presentations an event if you can.
And of course it's not just a Northwest

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you do talk all around the place, so people should definitely keep an eye

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out for where you're going to be
next day. Absolutely so. Now,

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one thing that we spoke about when
I caught up with you in person was

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an area of particular interest for me, as as listeners of the podcast will

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only too well know, which is
Black Angle UFO sightings. So I believe

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you have some interesting cases that we'll
talk about, and I'm looking forward to

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hearing about those. But before we
actually get to that, a black triangle

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is kind of an area that you're
particularly interested in, and some general thoughts

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perhaps on black triangles absolutely well,
I mean, obviously, investigating lots and

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lots of cases, you get the
patterns emerge and the different types, shall

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we say, of objects being seen
by people. Obviously you've got your kind

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of classic sort of sources discs.
Discs are still seen today, Cylinder typecraft

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are otherwise known cigars sometimes Obviously,
it all depends on where the viewing angle

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is, because obviously a disc sidear
can be described as a cigar or cylinder

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underneath you looking up at it.
It's around, isn't it. One of

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the one of the types that's quite
regularly reported is of course, triangular shaped

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UFOs, which generally seem to be
kind of very very dark in color,

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rather jet black blacker than black,
or sort of navy blue type colors or

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dark gray not there's very very few
cases have dealt with where there haven't been

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one of those sort of colorations.
Lighting configurations on them very cose to case.

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But again, you get certain patterns
and certain repeated types of lighting on

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these things, and it's a yeah, one of the obviously, it's it's

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clear that it's a real thing that's
going on out there. So sometimes,

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obviously people can misidentify three independent objects
glowing and they can kind of fill in

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the gaps between that, especially if
it's after dark, and then think they're

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seeing a singular object and they describe
as a triangle. It's actually like let's

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say, let's take for example,
three Chinese lanterns or whatever. Let's say

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they're drifting. Well, obviously whatever
configuration they're going to be in, they're

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going to make a triangle in the
sky, and sometimes that can be misinterpreted

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as a single object. But I've
dealt with lots of cases over the years

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where people have genuinely seen a solid, structured craft of some kind that's blocked

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out the stars, so they know
it's there. You know, they're seeing

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it before the sun set, so
they can see it's a solid object with

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lighting on it. And some of
the cases I've got to share with you

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today are going to be going to
focus on that. So, yeah,

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I do get them regularly reported,
even up to now. One of the

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cases I'm going to go through with
you is literally a brand new case that

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I'm working on at the moment.
It's only a couple of the incident happened

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in January this year, So it
just goes to show that flying trendles are

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still being seen regularly, and they're
being seen around the world. But then

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they're far from a new phenomena.
There's UFO sightings of these things going right

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back to the forties, fifties,
etc. Yeah, that's it, and

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it's I actually find it quite interesting
as well as black triangles that it's actually

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a relatively easy shape to misidentify because
of what you say, anything three points

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of light in the sky like say
Chinese lanterns or you know, even up

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certain planes, you know, with
some lighting configurations and things like that,

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you can actually can can appear to
be a black triangle, you know,

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triangle of some type. But of
course there are the cases that have a

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lot more going on. The points
are something and happening there, and I'm

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sure some of the bits and pieces
that that you're going to go into are

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going to be along those types of
lines. But presumably when you do get

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cited reports of black triangles, you
do get some misidentifications as well. So

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yeah, yeah, quite a few. And I'll happily tell people if I

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believe that they've seen some mundane I
feel a lot. I'm quite granded with

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the subject. While absolutely believing it
to be real. As you said in

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the introduction, spill, you know, I certainly believe this is is real

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and does involve other intelligences, but
there is also a hell of a lot

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of misidentification that goes on out there, of course, And as you say,

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some of the aircraft that are seen, some of the military aircraft,

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especially stealth bomber type, not that
they're flying stuff bombers everywhere or anything like

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that. One of the I mean, one of the arguments about black triangles

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is of course that it's some sort
of top secret military project. A lot

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of people like to lean on that
angle, especially with black triangles, and

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I don't know why that is,
Yeah, because why not lean on it

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with discs or cigars or cubes or
whatever, you know, some of the

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other types that are seen, or
glowing orbs whatever. But especially with the

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black triangles, people are like,
oh, this isn't alien, there's not

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another intelligence in there. They're human
flown things. Yeah, But there's various

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bits of logic that kind of don't
really fit with that for me. First

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of all, if it's some kind
of top secret military project, then why

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on earth are the military flying them
over highly populated areas. Yeah, I've

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dealt with lots of cases right over
Birmingham Center and that sort of thing.

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Of these things, some of which
we're going to go through from the Birmingam

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Areus and the Weld Cup to Shery
you today, and others are much further

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afield. Yeah, it's going on
everywhere, right, So if it is

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some top secret military project, yeah, well who's in charge of this project?

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If these things have been seen globally, then well everybody's in charge.

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And then if that's the case,
then why on earth are we not getting

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any whistleblowers of that? You know? This project so called? Yeah,

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on a global basis would be absolutely
astronomical. There would be thousands and thousands

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of people involved in that, and
you'd expect at least a few whistleblowers coming

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forward saying that that was what was
going on, Yeah, and that there

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were human made Now I'm not saying
that all of them have got other intelligences

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aboard. Yeah, I'm not saying
that some of them couldn't be kind of

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back engineered things made by humans,
or we've used advanced technology to make these

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things and they're now flying them around. Some of the ones seen in kind

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of more out of the way areas. Perhaps they're kind of test flying them

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when they've been seen in remote places. But yeah, it makes sense for

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these top secret craft if there are
human flown to be flown in the middle

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of the desert somewhere like good old
Area fifty one. Yeah, like out

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there in the desert. Yeah,
it makes sense. Yeah, it does

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not make sense over highly populated areas. And another bit of logic I've got

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towards them not being human is that
I've dealt with contact cases involving black triangles,

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So there's nothing kind of separating them. They've got the same sort of

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characteristic flight characteristics, capabilities as the
other types that are seen yet take for

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example, good old flying dome disks. Yeah, they can perform the same

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kind of maneuvers as those. Yeah. So this whole separation of kind of

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trying to make them human flowing but
the other types not human flown, it

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doesn't really have logical sense to me. Especially when I've dealt with abduction cases

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that have involved actual flying triangle craft. Yeah. A really good point.

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And I think, as you say, it does tend to be black triangles

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in particular that people try and explain
away as being you know, top secret

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military aircraft, and I don't know, maybe it's the black you know,

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the stealth bombers and stuff similar to
the shape. Yeah, Yeah, obviously,

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it's obviously it seems more capable that
humans are be able to create something

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that was that sort of shape because
we, of course we have created Delta

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Jack Kraft yea. So it's less
of a jump, isn't it than saying

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that we've somehow made these anti gravitational
dome discs and of flying them around.

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It's it's far easier to say when
it's an object that seems more streamline and

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more like a normal aircraft sort of
shape. Yeah. Absolutely. Anyway,

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So very interested to hear about some
of these cases that you've got to talk

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about. So, yeah, we're
going to jump around locations and places and

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also age of these some of them
more historic than others. But I think

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I'll start with the brand new case. You're the first person to hear this

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This isn't out yet on the Blooming
website, so your listeners are going to

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be the first people to hear about
this case publicly. This is literally brand

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new. The case actually came my
way in late January this year, but

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I've spent the last couple of months
just putting it together. There's a lot

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confus that's exactly where it took place. We've managed to nail that now.

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And it's very very important to get
exact locations where possible for these sort of

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things, because I can then check
various websites like flight radar, etc.

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And look for known trapped aircraft in
the vicinity. The two witnesses involved,

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Barbara and her sons Stephan, that
went mindy showing their first names, that's

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what they've allowed to go out in
the report. I won't share their surnames,

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so I'm very very full on about
witness confidentiality. We're required, so

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in some of the cases we're going
to go through, I'm not going to

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name the individuals involved. And the
incident took place between four and four thirty

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pm on Thursday, twenty fifth of
January this year, and we don't know

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the exact to the nearest minute but
we've got that rough time of it.

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And at the time the witnesses were
traveling back from Banbury to their home and

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Stafford and the some was driving and
Barbara was in the passenger seat of the

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car, and they were heading north
on the M forty two motorway just to

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the east of Birmingham Center Century and
they were one mile after the junction seven

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if anybody knows M forty two,
which is the turn off of the M

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six North. It was very very
heavy traffic that day, clear weather,

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the weather was the weather was nice
and due to the time of year,

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obviously the sun had already started to
go down. It wasn't fully dark,

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it was it was quite dark,
but there was still a bit of light

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in the sky. And it was
very very heavy traffic. So everybody,

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I guess everybody kind of leaving the
leaving work or whatever, heading back to

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their homes, and the traffic was
very kind of stopped start and they were

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moving along very very slowly. They
about one mile north of junction seven.

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There's a narrow bridge across the motorway. I don't think it's a pedestrian bridge

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as such, but not a full
on road either. It's somewhere in between,

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probably for construction vehicles to go across
or whatever. And so the left

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of this bridge and on the left
side to the way along the m forty

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two, Yeah, you've got trees, a line of trees right along the

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edge of the motorway, so you
can't really see that far into the distance

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except unless you were looking right up
at a very sharp angle kind of largely

205
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blocks the view. But at this
bit with the bridge, it was kind

206
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.360
of more open. You had an
embankment that kind of leads up to the

207
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.320
top of the bridge, and the
trees kind of vanished for a short period

208
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.399
of time. And they were moving
quite slowly, of course, and there

209
00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:30.080
was a there was a view out
of the passenger side of the car to

210
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:33.799
the northwest. There was a patch
of sky that could be seen at that

211
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.039
particular location. So of course they're
moving along as heavy traffic, so loads

212
00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:41.960
of other vehicles on the road,
and they just keep stopping and starting,

213
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:46.679
and Barbara looks at the passenger side
window and what she sees is this dark

214
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:56.039
triangular object essentially looked like an upright
equial afterbal triangle essentially from the angle she

215
00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.679
was looking at it, it appeared
to be between two thousand and three feet

216
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.919
up. She estimated it was about
two thirds of a football picture crass,

217
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.799
but it's two hundred and thirty feet
so quite a sizable object. Now,

218
00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:14.799
it's very hard, of course,
to judge distances and therefore size and speeds

219
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.159
of things accurately, but you can
usually you could usually tell the difference between

220
00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:23.600
a large object like a plane or
helicopter and a small object like a novelty

221
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:27.879
bloom rise. Yeah, it's pretty
it's going to be pretty obvious to people

222
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:32.519
that sort of difference, and this
certainly seemed like quite a sizable thing.

223
00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:37.480
Yeah. Now I had three lights
on it. There was a white lights

224
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:41.120
on the top point, a white
lights on the lower right corner, but

225
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.879
an orange reddish colored lights at the
lower left corner, which is interesting.

226
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:52.720
There was no other navigation lights on
it at all, and no stropes or

227
00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.559
anything like that, so none of
your usual kind of bright red or bright

228
00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.440
green lights you'd expect to see with
a normal aircraft, or or white strokes

229
00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:06.400
or anything. And it appeared to
be stationary, but it was quite hard

230
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:08.960
for a tell because of moving along
and they kind of stopped starting in the

231
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.359
traffic. She thinks it was stationary, but she said it potentially could have

232
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:18.519
been moving very very slowly, but
it certainly wasn't traveling fast like a like

233
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.039
a plane. Now, she opened
her window to have a clearer look at

234
00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:23.480
this thing, just to make sure
there wasn't any reflection in the window or

235
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.119
anything like that blocking her view.
So she got a clear view of it

236
00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:30.400
with the window down. And also
there was no there didn't appear to be

237
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:34.279
any sound that she could detector,
although of course she'd have background noise of

238
00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:40.039
vehicles on the M two anyway.
And she at this point, she pointed,

239
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:41.599
so they go underneath the bridge and
they lose sight of it a short

240
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.960
for a brief time, but luckily
when they pop out, the other side

241
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.200
of the bridge is still there.
And she pointed out to her son at

242
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.759
this point, and he kind of
just quickly, you know, bends down

243
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.920
in the driver zone and the driver's
seat and has a lookout, and he

244
00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.839
too can see this object and confirms
that it's trying low appears to be.

245
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.519
Now, she she got to look
look at this for up to four minutes,

246
00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:07.039
so this was not a quick sighting
numerous minutes. She's staring at this

247
00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.440
thing. Yeah, and it was
obvious to her that it was a solid

248
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.640
object of some kind. There was
no markings on it or anything, and

249
00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:18.119
it appeared to be black or very
very dark in color. Obviously a lot

250
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.039
of light had faded from the sky, but they could see it kind of

251
00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.279
blocking out with the dark sky behind
it. And they didn't stop due to

252
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.960
how busy the traffic was, so
at that particular point, it's very hard

253
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.160
to hard to stop. It might
obviously sometimes you've got hard shoulder to pull

254
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:37.960
over, but they didn't. They
didn't have Neither of them had a camera

255
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.559
on them at the time. The
Suns had a smartphone, but it was

256
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.440
on the back seat of the car
and they couldn't reach it to attempt to,

257
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.119
but they were too busy kind of
looking at it anywhere. Baba said

258
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:51.839
she was too busy instead of just
staring at the thing wondering what it was,

259
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.319
to really think about trying to get
any footage of it. Now,

260
00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.799
after a while, after this four
minutes has gone by, she loses sight

261
00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:02.519
of it at the at the left
side of the window. It took a

262
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.039
while to work out the exact position
they were on the motorway because obviously it's

263
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:11.000
fading lights and it's a very long
road, and we've we've been backwards and

264
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.359
for is just checking out different places
on Google street View, et cetera.

265
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.759
And finally, in the last couple
of days we've nailed the exact position as

266
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.680
confirmed by her son, and from
that we've been able to determine the elevation

267
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.000
that it was in the sky,
et cetera. And it was, Yeah,

268
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:29.119
it was kind of She would have
been looking up at it at a

269
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.319
kind of diagonal, so that meant
that it would have been within a mile

270
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:36.920
of their location, not particularly far
over the kind of open open fields to

271
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.960
the west side of the M forty
two at that particular place. Now,

272
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:42.799
looking at this, I started to
kind of study it, and of course

273
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:47.799
you've got to ask yourself first,
was it some kind of aircraft? Yeah?

274
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:49.599
Well, she stays at it for
four minutes. Yeah, if let's

275
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:55.119
say it was an aircraft and it
was moving away from her location, yeah,

276
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.359
because it would have had to have
been, because otherwise you just see

277
00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.640
it travel across the sky from right
to left or whatever. In that space

278
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.880
of four minutes. That's a long
enough time to be able to see that

279
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:08.880
it was slowly moving away to the
distance, and it certainly wasn't doing that.

280
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:14.839
So I don't I think an aeroplane
could be ruled out completely. Now,

281
00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:19.160
let's says a helicopter stationary over the
fields. There's numerous reasons why it

282
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:22.160
wasn't that. So, first of
all, obviously shape is all wrong,

283
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:29.359
didn't have standard navigation lights on it
at all. Barba said she and son

284
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.920
were both very used to seeing helicopters. They've got an air ambulance and near

285
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.039
where they live in Stafford, so
they used to seeing helicopters at different director

286
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.119
distances, altitudes, et cetera,
different lighting conditions. But yeah, one

287
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.319
of the main reasons I don't believe
that it could have been a helicopter is

288
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.640
that I checked on flight radar and
there were no trapped helicopters in the vicinity

289
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.880
between four and four point thirty pm
on that date. Now, because of

290
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.480
the proximity, it's not like right
next to it, yeah, but proximity

291
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:04.759
of Birmingham to National Airport, it's
definitely in controlled airspace both above and below

292
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:10.559
four thousand feet yere. What this
means is that it's very very unlikely to

293
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:15.759
have been an untrapped helicopter because they're
required to have a tracker on them because

294
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.319
they're being controlled airspace, So it
doesn't really sit. There's a lot of

295
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:22.599
things not pointing towards a helicopter over
the fields. So then you left with

296
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.119
what else could it have been?
Right, Well, kind of been a

297
00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:29.920
hot air balloon because hot air balloons
are not allowed to fly after dark.

298
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.480
Plus I really only have one sort
of light on them, just the flame

299
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.359
from the basket, and this thing
obviously had multiple points of lights on it.

300
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:42.039
Then when was the last time you
saw a hot air balloom with LEDs

301
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.319
on it or whatever? It doesn't
really fit with that. It was certainly

302
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:51.599
too big to have been some kind
of novelty lit balloon, led balloon or

303
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:56.079
a drone. I mean, it
was sizable. The thing was sizable,

304
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.839
certainly, and too big to have
been a remote control model. So what

305
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.440
you're left with, I mean,
when you take away them the mundane explanations

306
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.720
as far as you can tell,
and what you left with, well,

307
00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:12.519
what you're left with is that it
could well have been a genuine flying triangle

308
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:18.920
sighting. Now, a lot of
the time the triangles that have been reported

309
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.519
to me at least tend to have
kind of same colored lighting around around the

310
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.400
three points and the points, but
not always. I have dealt with numerous

311
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.440
cases where they've had either two lights
or one color and one of another like

312
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:34.319
this one, or even ones where
all or three lights are different colors.

313
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.480
So you can't there's no kind of
set rules to it. But I think

314
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:44.960
logically you could say exactly the same
about our aircraft here on Earth, couldn't

315
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.200
you The amount of different shapes we've
gotten that sort of thing, So use

316
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.279
the same logic if it's from elsewhere, and you're going to get lots of

317
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:56.799
different sort of subtypes and different shapes, sizes, et cetera. Yeah,

318
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.359
that's that's a really fascinating one.
And as you say those kind of you

319
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:06.880
know what I'm known as unambiguous black
triangle sightings where you know it's seen for

320
00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:11.039
quite some length of time like that
and moving very very slowly as well,

321
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.559
and you know, even stationary.
I just only don't know if any any

322
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.519
aircraft that can do that, And
that one's got all the hallmarks of a

323
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:23.079
zypical black triangle sighting, hasn't it
no? Sound very very very large?

324
00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.400
It's so fascinating. Well, yeah, and I mean with the angle,

325
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.920
it's odd because it looked like it
was upright, Yeah, which is interesting.

326
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.240
But then obviously, look, she's
looking at it a sort of diagonal,

327
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.359
so we don't really know whether she
was kind of i mean, logically

328
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.039
if it was lying flat, she
was kind of looking at it up at

329
00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:41.920
a sharp angle, so it may
might have made it look like it was

330
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.039
upright. Obviously, if she was
looking at it horizontal and it was that

331
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.319
shape, you'd be like, okay, the things moved into an upright position.

332
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.680
Again, I've dealt with numerous cases
where they do that, so there's

333
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.440
no rules. Yeah, and it's
good to know you do all of the

334
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.240
checking on flight radar and all the
various light trackers and things as well.

335
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:07.640
Yeah. I've done a little bit
of relatively amateur, you know, investigations

336
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:10.519
into cases and things like that.
And one of my regular one of my

337
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.279
regular listeners has got a really good
camera set up where he occasionally sends me,

338
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:17.559
you know, footage of things that
he's captured in the sky, and

339
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:21.519
one of them was a very convincing
looking black triangle, but ended up we

340
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.319
did some quite deep digging on it
for a little while and ended up finding

341
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.599
that particular one. We were able
to locate the you know, the flight

342
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:32.960
path on a flight tracker, so
we managed to roll that one out,

343
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:36.279
but obviously not so in the case
that you mentioned there, So really interesting

344
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.400
one. Yeah, yeah, there
was there was one. There was one

345
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:45.160
flight, a British Airways flight.
There was, but it was traveling south

346
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.079
southeast. It was coming down from
Glasgow and head and down to London,

347
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.440
went past the location about sort of
four twelve, but it was way off

348
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:55.160
to the west, like you know, at the angle she was looking up

349
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:56.680
at this thing, it wouldn't have
even been in sight. It would have

350
00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:02.160
been far and it was moving very
rapidly, so in a period of four

351
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.599
minutes it would have gone right across
the sky and it would have obviously been

352
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:08.759
moving, not stationary as she described, so it can't have been that.

353
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:14.319
So yeah, it's an interesting one. Yeah, spot on and very exciting

354
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.279
to hear about this one a bit
earlier than the rest of the public as

355
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:23.079
well, So thanks very much for
that. Yeah. So yeah, let's

356
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:27.240
move on to another case. Now
we're going to move abroad for this one,

357
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:34.119
and it's an absolutely incredible incident it's
a military case involving a flying triangle

358
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:41.079
where an entire squadron of individuals,
so that's twelve individuals saw this object.

359
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.440
I've only been able to talk with
one of the individuals, the one who

360
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.599
got in contact with us. This
is the only case of investigated in the

361
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.039
last however many years it's been now, is it sixteen seventeen dollars track?

362
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:56.920
I think of sixteen. It's the
only case I've ever investigated that is currently

363
00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:03.839
officially classified by the military, and
putting out the details of it, I

364
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:07.279
was kind of slightly concerned, But
yeah, we'll get to that as a

365
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:14.640
nice little line a dator story which
I'll take you through. But the witness

366
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.599
originally contacted me on Facebook back in
April twenty twenty one. It was a

367
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:25.319
fifty two year old ex aircraft mechanic
who used to serve in the Greek Air

368
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:30.599
Force and took me quite a while
to gain his trust, essentially because he

369
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.599
didn't definitely didn't want his personal details
going out in this one. I wanted

370
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.359
to remain completely anonymous. So I
mean that tells you something straight away.

371
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.039
When witnesses, you know, want
their name and locations and stuff covered up.

372
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.640
It shows that they're not in it
for any kind of form of personal

373
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:51.839
fame or fortune. So obviously skeptics
of the subject, we'll say people are

374
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.400
just making up stories and they want
their name in headlights, in the papers

375
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:59.279
and all that. But no,
in most cases that's not the case at

376
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.279
all. The majority of cases,
people they're rather happy to share kind of

377
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:08.839
their first name like in the previous
case, or sometimes their full name,

378
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.079
and then you know, they say
they've got nothing to hide, and you

379
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:14.519
know, and it goes out.
But they're not doing it to try to

380
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.799
get any fame off it or anything
or any money as such. It's not

381
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:21.039
like I pay them for the information. I'm just very grateful they reach out

382
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:23.480
to me. So, yeah,
it comes docted me on Facebook and took

383
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.039
a while. We chatted backwards and
forwards. Assured him I wouldn't be giving

384
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:33.920
out his name to anybody. But
I also it worked both ways. Yeah,

385
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.119
I had to had to make sure
he was or he says he was,

386
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.039
because it could just be some random
aunt of the Internet saying that they

387
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:42.200
worked for the Air Force. Yeah. Now, in order to prove his

388
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:47.079
background to me, he provided me
with both photographs of his own uniform with

389
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:51.880
his name on from the Greek Air
Force, and also photos of him on

390
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.839
the actual base to prove he said
who he was. I was allowed to

391
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.400
put the censored based photos in the
case report, so I wrote the sublication

392
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:04.960
port as I usually do, so
soon I'll be writing up the other Coleshill

393
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:10.960
case we've just gone over. But
he allowed me to put in ones with

394
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:14.720
his face blacked out of the base
photographs, but he would not allow me

395
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.759
to put his uniform in the report. That was just for me only.

396
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.160
I'm not allowed to state the exact
name of this base, but it's a

397
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:27.680
large base on the east coast of
Greece, and the incident happened in July

398
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:33.519
nineteen eighty nine. He wasn't sure
the exact date in that month that it

399
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:37.839
happened, but he was part of
a squadron on the base at the time.

400
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.960
So squadrons made up of four aircraft
mechanics, four pilots and four weapons

401
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:49.160
experts, and at the time,
his squadron was stationed on nights on the

402
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:55.920
base working as part of a training
exercise. They were essentially going to potentially

403
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:59.880
simulate an attack from a foreign power, so they were kind of on alert,

404
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.799
so that if this fake attack came
in, they would have to essentially

405
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.000
get all the get all the planes
airborne as fast as possible and get up

406
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:11.759
there. But he said most of
the nights would be pretty boring. They're

407
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:15.240
just they just spend their time in
this building at the western end of the

408
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:21.319
main runway of the base. The
mechanics and I assume the rest of the

409
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:26.200
squadron worked on a kind of rotation, So every couple of hours they'd shift

410
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.720
and one mechanic would stop working the
other one would get to work on the

411
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.480
jets. And it got to twelve
thirty in the morning and it was to

412
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.279
a switch. So at this point
he was inside the building with the rest

413
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.319
of his squadron, just having a
chin wag with them. But at this

414
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.079
point the other mechanic had been outside
with the with the jets came in and

415
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.960
he headed outside. It was a
very very clear nights, he said,

416
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:53.640
the stars were all visible, absolutely
wonderful, and he just because he'd been

417
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:57.920
inside, he just stretches and in
doing so, looks up into the sky

418
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:07.319
and it immediately notices three red lights
in a triangular formation to the east of

419
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:11.400
his location. And the cinema about
five hundred meters away, which would have

420
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.839
put them smap bang in the middle
of the base. The base is very

421
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.799
larger than long main runway, and
it was about five hundred meters away.

422
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.839
He judged that it was an altitude
of between three hundred to five hundred meters.

423
00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:29.279
Now, as an aircraft mechanic,
obviously, or anybody in the aviation

424
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.039
industry, he's on an airbase all
the time, he's going to be a

425
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:36.000
very very good judge of distances and
sizes, etc. You know, far

426
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.400
more than a regular civilian would be. That puts it a one thousand to

427
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:45.200
one thousand, six hundred feet up
essentially roughly. That's at altitude. It

428
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:49.519
was stationary. It appeared to have
no sound coming from it whatsoever, just

429
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:55.759
like the previous case. And obviously
sound travels really well after dark, doesn't

430
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:57.720
it. So if it was making
even a low noise, you'd expect to

431
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:02.119
hear that, But he said it
was absolutely silent. Now, these fee

432
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:07.880
lights were clearly attached to a dark, singular, triangular shaped object. The

433
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.799
object seemed to be about thirty to
thirty five meters across hundreds, one hundred

434
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:18.200
and fifteen feet across, so not
huge, but certainly not small either.

435
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:19.799
He called out the rest of the
squadron to see it, of course,

436
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.480
because he's like, what earth is
this? So he calls out and everybody

437
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:26.599
else comes out of the building and
all twelve of them are then looking at

438
00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.839
this thing from the end of the
runway and they all stood there wondering what

439
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.480
it could be. And this went
on for ten minutes. None of them

440
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.079
had any kind of smartphones or cameras
on them at the time. Yeah,

441
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:41.079
they're on shift. Yeah, so
they wuldn't had that sort of thing.

442
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.279
They didn't start walking across the base
towards it, So you think in that

443
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.599
sort of time, they could have
obviously started trying to get closer to the

444
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:52.359
thing to find out what it is. But they're they're on command to stay

445
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:56.200
near the you know, around that
building area at the end of the runway.

446
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.680
Yeah, so they didn't start walking
down towards it. Staring at this

447
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:04.799
thing and it's just up there,
dead still for about ten minutes, and

448
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:09.079
then without warning, it instantly accelerates. He described its shooting away like a

449
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:14.559
bullet. It just went bang and
it was gone. It wasn't like it

450
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.519
just blinked out. They literally saw
it go and shoot away to the east,

451
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:21.039
which would have been out over the
sea, over the Greek Sea,

452
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:23.839
because it's right on the coast of
the base. So just and it's just

453
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:29.680
gone. Very very impressive maneuvers,
obviously not mundane in any way, shape

454
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.960
or form. Now, at this
point they expected the alarms to go off

455
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:36.039
because he thought, oh, they'll
have got this thing on radar and they'll

456
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.319
intercept it now and they'll try to
get jets up in the air to go

457
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:44.200
and chase after this thing or whatever. There's nothing. It's just silence,

458
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:50.119
no, no alarms go off.
They go back into the building obviously chat

459
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:54.000
for numerous hours about what they've seen. They're all pretty fascinated by what it

460
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:00.160
could have been. And they continue
their shift, and their shift come to

461
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.319
an end about sort of six or
six thirty in the morning, and at

462
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:07.559
that point they change out with a
different squadron and then went back to sleep

463
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.960
in their barracks. But later in
the later in the afternoon, when they

464
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.839
woke back up the following day,
they are all called to the commanding officers

465
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:22.480
building. So they're thinking this is
unusual. So they him and his squadron

466
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:27.079
are called to the commander. So
they went there and the commander they start

467
00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:31.839
the conversation by informing them that they
were aware that they'd seen something during the

468
00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:36.440
nights, So they're aware that there
were witnesses of this thing. I don't

469
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:37.880
know if any of them would talked
or anything and it had got back to

470
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.240
them or whatever, or they just
assumed. They're giving their position on the

471
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:44.799
base that would have seen it,
not showing the details of that, but

472
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:49.440
they knew. But then they told
them that it was a test of something

473
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.039
like an a Wax aircraft and is
one of those uh it's one of those

474
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:57.599
radar planes with the large kind of
disc things stuck to the top of it.

475
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:01.279
I'm sure it's seen photographs of them
before. And they all knew that

476
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:06.839
that was absolute nonsense. Yeah,
because Aoax aircraft continues to move, they're

477
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:10.159
like normal planes. Yeah, they
don't have they don't have silently and they

478
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:15.320
very very much don't shoot off like
a bullet from an instant stop. And

479
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.760
also the light and configuration didn't have
normal navigation lights on it at all.

480
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.079
So what they'd actually seen was absolutely
nothing like an X aircraft, and they

481
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:27.639
knew it and the commander also knew
it, but that's what they were telling

482
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.079
them that it was, so they
knew that was nonsense. But obviously they're

483
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.679
in the military and they don't question
it because I've been told that. Then

484
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:37.639
they are told not to tell anybody
about it, including their own families and

485
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:45.239
friends, and the gentleman for many
many years honored that and has decided to

486
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:51.320
finally come forward with this information now
is his retirement years. Obviously doesn't want

487
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:55.360
his name going out. To his
knowledge, this incident is still classified by

488
00:34:55.360 --> 00:35:00.760
the Greek Air Force to this day. It's a really fascinating case. And

489
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:05.159
even though it was only able to
get to speak with just him, not

490
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:07.079
the other people on the squadron,
because obviously many many years has gone on,

491
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.920
he hasn't kept in touch with other
people off the squadron that he can

492
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:14.159
put me in touch with or anything, and because of the classified nature of

493
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:16.960
it, it's unlikely any of them
would probably want to talk about it in

494
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:22.840
the first place. But given the
fact that he validated his background, I

495
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.280
am absolutely convinced that he is who
says he is, and I'm absolutely convinced

496
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:31.440
that this incident happened, and because
of the maneuvering capabilities of said objects certainly

497
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:37.559
not mundane, essentially flying triangle genuine
one. Yeah, that's a really interesting

498
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:43.440
one. I'm always kind of mind
blown by these enormous things. I mean,

499
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:45.760
as you say that that wasn't perhaps
one of the one of the bigger

500
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:50.559
ones that I've heard about, but
still something of that kind of size,

501
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:55.280
you know, basically hovering in mid
air and then shooting off like it's there's

502
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:00.280
something particularly impressive and sort of scary
about thing that can do that, especially

503
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:04.000
at an object of that kind of
size, you know. Yeah, it's

504
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:07.159
one of the aspects of the UFO
subjects in general, of course, because

505
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:10.079
it's not just fts that can do
this. It's just one of the things

506
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:14.360
that shows you that they're just not
mundane. And you know, anybody who

507
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:16.239
says it's a black project to you
know, who knows what we've got behind

508
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:22.280
the scenes, the capabilities of these
things are farign advancer. I'd be willing

509
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.039
to better far in advance of anything
that we've got black projects wise now,

510
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:30.840
let alone in nineteen forty or nineteen
thirty or even back before then. Obviously

511
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.119
we've got historical sightings of UFOs going
back hundreds and hundreds of years, right,

512
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:37.960
But we've definitely got sightings from back
in like wartime, et cetera of

513
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:42.920
objects performing maneuvers like this. Yeah, So you can't just use logic of

514
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.599
we're working on black, black budget
stuff and we've got you know, capabilities

515
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:51.280
in secret today because these things have
been doing this sort of thing for decades.

516
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:58.079
So I'm absolutely convinced it's non human. Yeah, absolutely, and it's

517
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:01.039
it's a shame we've not heard from
more of the witnesses, But as you

518
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:04.760
say, there's kind of a lot
of the time with military cases, these

519
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:08.440
people they want to have, you
know, a regular career and get to

520
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:13.440
retirement within the military. The last
thing they want to do is start becoming,

521
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:15.239
you know, making a name for
themselves as the guy who saw that

522
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.199
thing or indeed yeah, yeah,
And of course they were told not to

523
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:22.199
talk about it, so it's not
like it's not like they were just kind

524
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:24.679
of should I talk about it?
Should have not? Their commanding officer literally

525
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:28.920
told them this is classified. You're
not allowed to talk about this. You

526
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:30.000
know, a lot of the time
they go into one of that, and

527
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:34.800
it makes you wonder how many other
cases like this are out there that I've

528
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:37.719
never seen the light of day because
people are just too scared to talk about

529
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:43.840
it. Yeah. Absolutely, I've
had a couple of similar cases over the

530
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:46.679
years as well, not to triangles
particularly, but just people, as you

531
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:51.039
say, who are actually from the
military, and you know, obviously having

532
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:53.159
a podcast now for a few years, people eventually, you know, start

533
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:59.519
to email their cases in and it
is always quite fascinating when you get when

534
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.960
you get people that okay, it
is you know, essentially an anecdot if

535
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.440
somebody's on account of something that they
saw. But when they don't want when

536
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.199
they don't want the name out,
and they're not they're not trying to sort

537
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:14.760
of eventually get a book deal or
become a celebrity, they don't even want

538
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:16.400
the name out. And like you
say, I've had people with similar things

539
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:21.760
where they've been in touch with me. They've they've provided details of their background,

540
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:23.519
pictures of them on bases doing all, you know, everything they've done

541
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:27.719
through their career, respected members of
the military. You know, we've had

542
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:31.559
good careers with with with glowing records, and they have seen things, you

543
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:37.239
know, and yeah, that makes
it would make no sense for them.

544
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:40.719
They came forward with that information,
especially not if it's something in a way

545
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:45.280
they could get in trouble about it. It's it doesn't logically make sense.

546
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:50.760
It makes sense for occasional civilians to
make up tall tales. And you know,

547
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.159
I feel over the years, I've
kind of got quite good at actually

548
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:57.280
spotting that, you know, where
I can usually tell where somebody is kind

549
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.000
of you know, you can sort
of tell a lot of the time,

550
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:02.039
and they'll say, can you can
you forward this story to all the newspapers

551
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:04.679
and that sort of thing, you
know, the one it as big as

552
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.199
possible. They want to be kind
of out there with it as much as

553
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:10.840
possible, and but most people that
that doesn't happen with us. I said,

554
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:14.880
so, yeah, yeah, before
we kind of carry on. Yeah,

555
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:20.559
this little anecdojel story about this one
is rather rather amusing and slightly odd.

556
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:24.360
So essentially, I keep all my
cases, of course on my computer

557
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:30.400
that I write. Obviously the details
of all electronic log records backed up from

558
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:37.079
time to time. But yeah,
I've got different folders with the different cases

559
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.320
because obviously a lot of stuff comes
my way. I've always got multiple cases

560
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:44.400
on the go at once and they've
got'll keep it organized right. Well,

561
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:51.480
a while back I was going to
go and check the details of this particular

562
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:53.679
case here for some reason, I
think I was going to check the uniform

563
00:39:53.679 --> 00:40:00.440
shots or whatever, and I went
to look for the folder, and the

564
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.880
folder had vanished off my computer.
Just this, just this one particular case.

565
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:08.920
The interesting thing is that if I, if I had deleted a fold

566
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:12.360
off my machine, you know,
it obviously tells me. Yeah, it

567
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.719
will warn me. You know,
I can't just go and delete a folder

568
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:16.480
off the computer without it, you
know, giving me a warning. So

569
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:22.119
if I had deleted it accidentally,
I must have also then also clearly you

570
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.800
know the current confirmation message, and
it wasn't sitting in my sort of recycling

571
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.800
bin or anything. It would just
gone. And I was there, and

572
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.760
for a very short time I was
like a bit barn on about this.

573
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:37.239
Yeah, went and checked on the
website. It was the case report was

574
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.840
luckily still on the Birmingham u FAGOD
website, so that hadn't been. If

575
00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:44.639
that had been if that was gone
as well off the website, I immediately

576
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:46.400
would have been like, I've been
hacked, you know, and it's been

577
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:51.480
removed on purpose. But it wasn't
it was still on the booming u Fagot

578
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:53.039
website, so I would have to
get the files back out of it and

579
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:59.599
save the report locally. Again,
it's just it happened to happen with that

580
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:02.719
one particular case, the one that
was classified, and I lost the photographs

581
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:07.039
as well, the photographs of the
unit of his uniform that he'd sent me,

582
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:10.880
not that I was ever going to
share those with anybody anyway, you

583
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.920
know, that was just done for
my validation of him. Yeah, but

584
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:21.960
yeah, they're gone because the folder
vanished. So yeah, it's just out

585
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:23.159
of all the cases that could have
happened with, it happens with the one

586
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:27.480
that's classified. And I'm sure some
people would go down the rabbit hole with

587
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:29.639
it and be like, oh,
yeah, the many black have removed it

588
00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:31.400
or whatever, you know, But
I don't think that at all. But

589
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:36.400
it's just funny that happened with that. Well, you know, strange things

590
00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:39.199
sometimes do happen in those kind of
in those Yeah, well they don't,

591
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:42.800
that's the thing, you know,
that's the thing. And you know,

592
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:46.280
i'd be naive to think that my
group, alongside all the other active groups

593
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:51.960
in the UK and not being the
surveillance going on. They're keeping tabs on

594
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.280
what people are saying and to who
and where and that sort of thing.

595
00:41:54.280 --> 00:42:00.199
They're they're genuinely are. I remember
many many years ago seeing the It was

596
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.960
the It was the transcript for a
program that had been on television here in

597
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.480
the UK with a number of high
profile euthologists on its stand ind Freedman,

598
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:13.119
et cetera. And they they'd been
on the They've been on the show and

599
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:15.599
it had just gone out on normal
UK television. Yeah, but they got

600
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:20.159
hold of through the Freedom Information Act, So they got hold of the transcript

601
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.239
of this show. Yeah. And
at the top of it was a load

602
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:28.239
of addresses where this transcript had been
sent to you. And it not only

603
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:31.039
included our own government and the m
o D, but it also included the

604
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:37.159
White House, the FBI, the
CIA in the States, a number of

605
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.559
other companies that nobody knew who they
were. There were just unknown companies of

606
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:45.760
some kind had to receive the transcript
of the show. And you have to

607
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:49.440
ask yourself, why if there's a
show going on in the UK, would

608
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.119
they even care across in the States, what's what's going on? So that

609
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:57.360
shows you straight away that sort of
thing shows you that they're keeping tabs on

610
00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.320
what's happening in the world and what
people are saying about the subjects. But

611
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:04.760
most of the time they probably don't
really care whether the details go out or

612
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.480
not. I think it's only really
the really high, big, high profile

613
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:12.559
cases where the military have been involved
with some kind of cover up of things,

614
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.559
and that's where I've tried to shut
shut them down and shut down witnesses

615
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:22.599
and that sometimes even bribing. Yeah, absolutely, I think it's It's one

616
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:24.920
of those, isn't. It depends
like how far you want to go down

617
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:30.960
the rabbit hole of that particular that
particular line of thinking. But at the

618
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:37.840
very least governments will and militaries and
you know, and intelligence kind of agencies

619
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:40.519
and whatnot, of course, are
going to want to monitor people who are

620
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.320
specifically looking into cases of odd things
being seen in the sky. Yeah,

621
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:52.880
because because at the very least those
people may have accidentally caught some classified military

622
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:54.800
testing, you know, in images, and they're going to want to say,

623
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:58.000
at the very least there could be
a lot more to it down that

624
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:00.360
path as well. But yeah,
this certainly going to want to keep tabs

625
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:06.000
on what is being spotted and obviously
if they are, and of course it

626
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:09.480
will be testing classified vehicles as well, So I'm not saying that all of

627
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.800
the sightings are that, but those
people like like us, and particularly like

628
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:21.679
yourself who's literally compiling databases and actively
seeking out people's sight of odd things in

629
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:23.519
the sky, they're going to be
thinking, I wonder what if he's caught

630
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:28.599
any of our testing, And as
I say, as an extension of that,

631
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:32.800
you know, depending on the extent
of the uk M or these involvement

632
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:37.760
in actually studying UFOs, it could
go a lot deeper than that as well.

633
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:44.559
But obviously that's that's very difficult to
close across on the subject being a

634
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:46.559
lot more open in the states of
recent years, of course, but still

635
00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:51.519
the long way to go, should
we say, baby steps? Yeah,

636
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:53.719
let's move on to another fascinating case
for you. I'm going to bring this

637
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:59.679
home back to Birmingham now, and
this is a case that came one of

638
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:07.079
my own years of UFO investigation,
and the incident took place Irdington and area

639
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.119
of Birmingham, just kind of up
near the center. Really, it's quite

640
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:15.280
highly populated. It's not on the
outskirts of brummerun Thing and the incident took

641
00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:19.079
place at some point between nineteen ninety
nine and two thousand and three. Right

642
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:23.719
you probably listeners are probably thinking,
why on earth is that so vague?

643
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:28.159
WHI would the witness not be able
to put it down to time a year

644
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:31.159
or anything? Yeah, or even
the year or yeah, that's a long

645
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.480
period of time, right, four
years. Yeah, But there's a very

646
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.559
valid reason for that, which we'll
get to. So this is a it's

647
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:44.800
an incredible case. It's a landing
of a flying triangle. The case also

648
00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:50.079
has elements of concepts in it will
which we'll get to. So it involved

649
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:52.880
are two witnesses whose names are not
going to reveal. They were in the

650
00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:57.199
early twenties at the time, and
one of them, the key, key

651
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:01.599
witness I was initially talking with,
used to attend Birmingham a faux group's monthly

652
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:06.400
meetings. So that's how he first
got in touch with me. I guess

653
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:09.960
his experiences led to an interest in
the subject or whatever, and he approached

654
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.039
me and told me he wanted to
talk about it. He used to live

655
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.760
on Holly Lane at the time of
the incident, Holly Lane in Urdington.

656
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:22.719
Used to live there with his family, just normal SEMy detached houses. Opposite

657
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:28.039
their particular house on the road is
this big area of rough grassland behind the

658
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:32.519
fence. They nicknamed it the Tip, and he used to go there some

659
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:37.960
late evenings taking his dog for a
walk. Someone have sort of sneaky cigarettes

660
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:42.960
behind his parents back and he used
to meet up with his friend and they

661
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.079
kind of got dog walking together or
whatever across there. So on the night

662
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:51.280
of the incident, he met with
his friend lived in the neighborhood, and

663
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.639
it was somewhere between sort of eleven
pm to one am. He's not sure

664
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:59.039
the exact time, but it was
certainly fully after dark. They're very very

665
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.320
late, and it was a lovely
clear night again, really brilliant weather,

666
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:08.559
just clear and mild, and he
looked to the east over the tip and

667
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:10.639
they were just standing there on the
edge of the road, you know,

668
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:14.760
just getting ready to take the dog
for a walk. And they looked to

669
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:17.639
the east over the tip and in
the distance they could see a triangle of

670
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:23.079
red lights come from the east course
to Grease. But yeah, this triangle

671
00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:29.280
of red lights is just moving slowly
to their left, and they in just

672
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:31.599
in the distance over the trees on
the far side of this area of grassland,

673
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:35.920
and they were they were straight away. Kind of a bit confused by

674
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:37.679
it. I thought that it was
a bit odd. It doesn't look like

675
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:40.320
normal navigation lights if you don't think
too much of it, right, But

676
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:45.920
they realized it was starting to move
their direction. As it gets a bit

677
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:51.519
a bit closer, they mentioned that
there was a distortion type effect going on

678
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:54.679
around the lights, kind of wobble. I've actually had other cases where the

679
00:47:54.800 --> 00:48:00.280
exact same thing has been reported,
and it's possible indication of some kind of

680
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:04.639
energy field. It wouldn't say for
definite, but yeah, the possibility and

681
00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:07.880
magnetics we don't really know. But
there was this distortion around these lights.

682
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:12.400
It was continuing to get closer.
It was coming in their direction and it

683
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:15.920
seemed to be silent. And as
it got nearer, they realized it was

684
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:20.920
this black, triangular shaped object coming
up to a point at the top.

685
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:23.920
How they read the red lights.
They could see there was a small red

686
00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:28.599
light at each of the corners underneath, and then a larger light in the

687
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:31.760
middle of the base of this thing. Now, the key witness thinks this

688
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:35.360
was also red, but the other
witness, when I spoke with him,

689
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:37.840
he thought it was a yellow or
white in color. You do often get

690
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:44.400
these kind of little discrepancies between multiple
witness statements. That's absolutely standard. It

691
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:46.239
doesn't mean that the case is made
up or anything like that at all.

692
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:52.119
If let's say the police interview ten
people who've seen a car accident, for

693
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:57.400
example, there'll be slight variations between
their different testimonies. It's just human nature.

694
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:01.119
But this object was It was slowly
towards them, and it came over

695
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:05.599
the fence on the far side of
the road, descending as it came,

696
00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:07.719
and I couldn't believe it. They're
just standing there looking at this thing.

697
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:13.079
Mayre's the game, and it comes
down and it lands in the road in

698
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:16.119
front of them. It was within
a stone's throw of he said. It

699
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:21.480
didn't touch the actual road surface,
seemed to kind of come down to about

700
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:24.320
a couple of feet off the road
and then just stop and it was just

701
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:30.119
sitting there. But at this point, the key witness I initially spoke with,

702
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:35.199
he started to hear these very strange
sounds coming from the thing. Described

703
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:37.239
it as kind of a rhythmic sort
of a noise, a bit like a

704
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:44.039
dig wedoo, sort of a whoo
sort of sound. Now, when I

705
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:46.280
spoke with the other witness, the
other witness didn't recall this sound at all.

706
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:51.320
Yer to him, it was completely
silent when it was on the ground.

707
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:55.800
A really really interesting discrepancy between the
two experiences, and we'll come back

708
00:49:55.840 --> 00:50:00.320
to that as a possible reason for
that, which I'll explain. So,

709
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:02.840
after staring at this for about a
minute, not knowing what to do,

710
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.599
they're just standing on the street corner
looking at this thing, and in front

711
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:10.039
of them, the dog was down
by his side. It just suddenly bolts

712
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:15.360
for the house and it runs straight
past the strangler object and runs towards the

713
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.440
house of the key witness, and
they don't see it again after that.

714
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:24.320
I speaked by what was happening.
A moment later. The object takes off

715
00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:29.559
silently, and it starts to lift
off, moves that a kind of diagonal

716
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.960
up into the air, and they
think it's going to keep going. It

717
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:37.519
kind of travels to the southwest short
distance, but it stops directly over the

718
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.159
roof of the key witness's house,
and so it kind of moved up and

719
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:45.960
then it halted about fifteen feet above
the chimney of the house, and it

720
00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:52.280
remained there for about thirty seconds.
They're still standing there watching it, just

721
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:57.119
not knowing really what to do.
And then it continued and it was lost

722
00:50:57.159 --> 00:51:00.880
from sight behind the housing air so
it kind of moved off against and they

723
00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:02.599
lost sights of this thing. Now
they wanted to keep watching it. Yes,

724
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:07.280
they run down this side road that
came off Holly Lane called Hollydale Road

725
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:12.599
on the side streets and behind the
housing there's a flat open area of garden

726
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:15.599
allotments behind this tall fence and you
can peep over the fence and see the

727
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:22.599
allotments and what do you know,
objects completely gone. No, that's again

728
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:27.800
a common thing that happens time and
time again. So when witnesses kind of

729
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:31.519
lose sight of an object for a
brief moment, it uses that opportunity to

730
00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:36.719
get out of there. Obviously,
people have different views on whether that means

731
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:39.079
that it's intelligent and knows it's being
watched or whatever, or if it's just

732
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:43.239
coincidental. Maybe it's a mix of
the two. But yeah, the thing

733
00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:47.280
was just out of there. They
can't remember what happened next. They think

734
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:53.320
that they must have gone back to
their own homes. But the interesting thing

735
00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:59.199
is in the morning when they woke
up, neither of the witnesses could remember

736
00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:02.920
it at all, the entire the
entire incident had been wiped from their minds.

737
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.119
Now, even when they walked over
to the tip, Yeah, they

738
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:12.000
had no inkling, They didn't kind
of get spooked out. Now, the

739
00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:15.840
only incling that anything had gone on. The only sign was that the dog

740
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:20.679
was afraid to go over to the
tip after this, but he didn't know

741
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:22.519
why. Yeah, they didn't really
think too much of it, but the

742
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:28.119
dog seem spooked. But not even
that triggered their memories of the incident,

743
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:34.719
of seeing this objecture and the incident
only came back to the key witness when

744
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:37.800
he moved house. And he moved
house for his family in two thousand and

745
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:44.480
three, right so that at that
point he leaves the area is no longer

746
00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:47.239
on Holly Lane, And within weeks
of doing that, within weeks of moving

747
00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:52.039
away from the area, it just
comes back to him one day, just

748
00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:54.320
kind of like remembering an old memory, like you know, a holiday you've

749
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:58.199
being on a few years back,
and you think back to it like that,

750
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:01.760
and he's thinking, why did I
forget that? How on earth could

751
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:07.519
I forget seeing this weird tragular object
come down. So he calls his friend.

752
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:09.280
Yeah, calls his friend and says, do you remember when we saw

753
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:14.039
that thing, that triangular object?
And that triggers his friend's memory of it,

754
00:53:14.440 --> 00:53:16.559
and then his friend can remember it
too, But up until that point,

755
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:21.440
neither of them could remember it.
So the trigger was his memory coming

756
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:24.000
back, and then he managed to
trigger the memory of his friend just by

757
00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:29.840
talking about the incident with him.
Again, a very kind of I would

758
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:32.960
say, common aspect of missing time. I've dealt with other cases that like

759
00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:37.400
this to the letter, where something
will be completely removed from somebody's mind for

760
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:39.800
a period of time, and there's
usually some kind of trigger, like there

761
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:44.400
might see a light that reminds him
of the thing or something like that,

762
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:47.559
or sometimes it might come back in
a dream or a daytime flashback or whatever

763
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:51.960
various ways it can come back.
But again, you've got this pattern that

764
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.880
goes on with this. That's kind
of not really the end of the story,

765
00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:58.840
because he thought of this, Yeah, he thought this incident, the

766
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:04.039
key witness was thinking about and remembering
this what happened, bro, And he

767
00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:07.239
started to recall an earlier memory.
This is really interesting. He recalled an

768
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:12.599
earlier memory of being about ten or
eleven years old and sitting in his bedroom

769
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:20.880
and hearing the same sound that he
remembered coming from the craft but as a

770
00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:23.800
child. Here now it's we never
really got to the bottom of what this

771
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:28.719
was. He wanted to be regressed, but we attempted a regression, so

772
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:32.679
I worked with a hypnotherapist here and
we attempted a hypnotic regression, but he

773
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:37.079
couldn't sink into that regressive state.
Some people are just kind of they can't

774
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:40.880
relax enough to be hypnotized, and
he couldn't relax enough. So it was

775
00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:46.400
essentially a fouled attempt at a regression. So we didn't get any further details

776
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:51.039
aback from that. But looking at
it, it's a possibility there that he

777
00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:57.079
was an experienced contact and maybe this
craft was there for him, and maybe

778
00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:00.800
that's why only he heard the sound, not his friend. Of speculating here,

779
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.199
I'm not saying that's definitely what went
on with that, but there was

780
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.320
implications that potentially that could have been. So, yeah, that's the that's

781
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:14.119
the details of what went down with
that incredible incident. Yeah, incredible is

782
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:16.320
definitely the word for it. It's
really a really interesting one there, and

783
00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:23.760
it brings up some some some interesting
kind of points about differences in witness testimony

784
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:28.760
as well. Obviously, as we
all know, skeptics kind of jump on

785
00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:32.960
those little tiny, you know,
discrepancies and things like that, and well

786
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:37.599
that's it. I mean, in
some cases I kind of see why why

787
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:42.360
you know, why that analysis take
place, if you will. But in

788
00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:46.320
actual fact, when when we're talking
about those kind of differences in the different

789
00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:52.000
sort of testimonies from witnesses, you
know, it's actually quite interesting. Like

790
00:55:52.039 --> 00:55:54.280
you say, sometimes one person hears
a sound and the other person doesn't,

791
00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:58.800
and that's not actually a shaky recollection
that suggests the case is a bit dodgy.

792
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:02.360
It's actually a feature than as they
say. And do you think that

793
00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:05.880
do you think that? Actually?
I think with that, I think I

794
00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:07.599
think with the sound one hundred percent. Yeah, because there's it's very I

795
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:09.840
mean, it was there for a
number of minutes, right, so it

796
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:14.400
seems very unlikely that his friend wouldn't
have also heard these noises coming from the

797
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:16.519
thing. Yeah, So for whatever
reason, he could hear it and his

798
00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:21.119
friend couldn't. Yeah, and then
you've got him having this earlier memory of

799
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:23.599
hearing the same sound in his room. He's got no reason to have that

800
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:29.400
previous memory. Yet it indicates that
he'd this was not the first time he'd

801
00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:32.079
encountered this craft. You know that
he'd encountered it as a child before.

802
00:56:32.320 --> 00:56:37.440
And it's it's entirely possible that when
it approached them and the reason why it

803
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:40.079
was landing in the road in front
of them. Yeah, and we don't

804
00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:42.960
even know if this is the whole
story, right, because they had the

805
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.280
memories blocked out. Yeah, they
lost all memory of the incident, so

806
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:50.840
we don't know whether it really was
just on the road. Maybe more went

807
00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:54.280
on that they're not remembering. Maybe
more went on after they lost sight of

808
00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:58.440
it. Maybe it came back and
something else happened, And we don't know.

809
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:00.360
And we were hoping to get to
the bottom of and maybe get to

810
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:06.199
the bottom of that by regressing the
key witness, but it unfortunately he couldn't

811
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:09.599
be regressed. But I do believe
that regression can be used to retrieve missing

812
00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:15.000
memories and sort of sea passed screen
memories where the beings kind of mass their

813
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:19.679
appearance and that sort of thing.
I've seen some very very successful examples of

814
00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:23.639
that over the girls, but obviously
it's very controversial. Yeah, I think.

815
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:28.280
I think the first talk I heard
you give obviously the minicon was specifically

816
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:30.599
about skin. That's correct, Yeah, I did. Yeah, because that

817
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:36.679
particular aspect of the content phenomena is
something I find particularly fascinating, that the

818
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:40.079
beings not only have the well potential
a bit of I should say potential,

819
00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:43.880
shouldn't I because we don't know if
it's definitely them doing it, as I

820
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.280
described in my in my lecture,
we don't really know. There's a lot

821
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:52.519
of there's a lot of aspects to
that particular element of the phenomena that I

822
00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:55.119
believed needed to be kind of examined
to a deeper level. So I attempted

823
00:57:55.159 --> 00:58:00.519
to do that. And yes,
it's forever fascinating to me that, Yeah,

824
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:04.559
definitely. And do you think that
that that's all points into the kind

825
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:09.639
of possibility of manipulation of people's perceptions
and people memories when we see those kinds

826
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:14.239
of discrepancies in not all of them, of course, because I think sometimes

827
00:58:14.599 --> 00:58:17.559
there could be a discrepancy and witnesses
to me that could actually blind to something

828
00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:21.400
that is working. In terms of
the case being a bit dodgy, but

829
00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:25.119
I think certainly other times it seems
it seems clear that that there is some

830
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:30.960
kind of manipulation of perception, and
even cases like where there's that that case

831
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:35.360
that Jacques Vala had looked at where
they saw one shape, took a picture

832
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:37.320
of it, and when they developed
the photographs it was a completely different shape.

833
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.320
Yeah, Yeah, that's really yeah, some of that stuff. Yeah,

834
00:58:40.599 --> 00:58:44.039
I've had I've had people where they've
kind of tried to take a photograph

835
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:45.599
of something they can see in the
naked eye. Yeah, but when they

836
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:50.679
take the photograph, there's nothing on
the photograph and yeah, and they're absolutely

837
00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:52.519
convinced that it was there in the
sky. Yeah. That really makes you

838
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:57.400
wonder what's going on with this,
And it's kind of are we dealing with

839
00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:02.320
something that's actually physically there or is
it just appearing to them and it's in

840
00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:06.639
some sort of other realm of reality. There's all sorts of like really deep

841
00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:09.639
elements that come out through through some
of the cases on record and some of

842
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:13.960
the ones I've investigated over the girls
are just absolutely fascinating, and that we've

843
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:16.599
got these particular aspects where you're like, wow, you know what if you

844
00:59:16.599 --> 00:59:21.599
know what's exactly what exactly is going
on with this stuff. Yeah, absolutely,

845
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:22.719
well, I mean we've not got
too much time left, but I

846
00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:28.880
was just wondering if you've got any
thoughts just in general about black triangles,

847
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:31.000
Like, obviously we know they've got
these, as we've discussed quite a bit

848
00:59:31.039 --> 00:59:36.199
actually over the last hour. You
know, they've got these often quite similar

849
00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:40.079
characteristics, moving very very slowly or
stationary and shooting off the no sound,

850
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:45.760
often at very very low altitudes as
well the lights, which is obviously particularly

851
00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:49.159
baffling on it almost seems in some
cases that there's certainly not hiding if they've

852
00:59:49.159 --> 00:59:51.960
got lots of lights on them and
they're so low and that kind of thing.

853
00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:55.480
I just wonder if you've got any
theories obviously we can't say for sure,

854
00:59:55.559 --> 01:00:00.559
but the theories as to what black
triangles are actually doing, I mean

855
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:04.760
reconnaissance typework. I And as I
said, I've dealt with a number of

856
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:08.679
contact cases where people have literally been
taken aboard black triangles and have experienced an

857
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:15.119
abduction experience with gray beings and sometimes
other types as well. So yeah,

858
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:22.400
I think they've got numerous different agendas. Maybe there's certain types that do a

859
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:23.840
certain thing. You know that nothing
is set in stone with this, you

860
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:27.719
know, there's no kind of definite
role like, oh, if it's a

861
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:30.639
really big craft, it's here for
this particular purpose or anything like that.

862
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:34.840
Yeah, because I guarantee you'll find
you'll find other cases that are the exact

863
01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:37.119
opposite of that. You know,
all we could see is the similarities in

864
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:42.440
the shapes and the capabilities of these
things. The size varies, obviously,

865
01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:46.559
sometimes these things are absolutely ginormous,
like the phoenix, like the incredible phoenix

866
01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:52.239
lights incident with the obviously that was
delta shaped, not specifically triangular, but

867
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:57.800
triangular ish, shall we say.
I actually dealt with the witness of a

868
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:01.480
military witness who was actually a witness
to the Phoenix lights for many, many

869
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:06.880
years. I actually really really hoped
that I'd get to speak with at least

870
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:08.679
one witness of that event, because
it was seen by hundreds and hundreds of

871
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:15.440
people, and a number of years
ago I investigated it was a contact case.

872
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:20.360
And the gentleman had had experiences throughout
his life, numerous UFO sightings and

873
01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:24.679
contact experiences as a child, and
he'd moved across the States and served in

874
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:30.000
the military and the States and had
even had contact type of experiences occur on

875
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:32.880
a full space where he was.
But yeah, he was actually a witness

876
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:37.119
to the Phoenix lights incident, which
was he was really fascinating speaking with somebody

877
01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:40.760
had actually seen it with their own
eyes. Yeah, do you know that's

878
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:43.800
a really good point. He made
me think when you were when you were

879
01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:45.800
talking there, I mean obviously pondered
this a lot, you know what I

880
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:50.639
mean in terms of what these things
are in and you know, and all

881
01:01:50.679 --> 01:01:52.639
the rest of it, and had
discussed it at length with with with folks.

882
01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:57.519
But it's a really good point there
is that the shape and size of

883
01:01:57.559 --> 01:02:00.920
an object doesn't necessarily, you know, determ in the function. Like if

884
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:02.360
we look at I was just thinking, made me think when you were saying

885
01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:07.519
there, if we look at the
example of lorries or HGVs. Heavy good

886
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:13.800
vehicles freight trucks, depending where you
are in the world, those things are

887
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:16.760
essentially the same shape, big,
big old vehicle with lots of wheels that

888
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:22.639
can haul large objects up and down
you know, roads and whatnot. Some

889
01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:24.639
of those might be used for carrying
frozen goods. Some of them might be

890
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:28.519
used to carry formula one car.
Some of them you might be used to

891
01:02:28.519 --> 01:02:31.599
carry people, you know what I
mean, It's a very similar shape object,

892
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:36.199
but all of them have completely different
functions. So yeah, absolutely,

893
01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:39.000
yeah, I don't think there's any
there's no kind of definite rules with this.

894
01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:45.159
You'll always find cases that don't fit
if you put down any particular role.

895
01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:49.719
You'll find because it's such a complex
subject and there's so much going on

896
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:52.079
with it, and you get a
lot of similarshes, but also you get

897
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:59.159
differences coming out with cases. But
I've seen enough to convince me that flying

898
01:02:59.199 --> 01:03:05.079
triangles are at least some of them
are non human flown things. I mean

899
01:03:05.079 --> 01:03:07.280
there's even cases where they've seen these
things down on the ground and have seen

900
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:14.079
alien beans, grays or whatever in
their vicinity. So how do you explain

901
01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:21.280
that if it's military what they're wearing
suits, it's so you know, there's

902
01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:25.079
there's enough going on with it that
that means that there's an alien elements to

903
01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:30.599
to that particular craft type. But
yeah, very interesting spot on. Well

904
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:34.320
he thanks very much, Dave for
joining. It's been an absolute pleasure.

905
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:37.840
I've found that super interesting. I'm
sure they listen as well as well,

906
01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:44.519
and I'll make sure to leave some
links to burning UFO group and to yourself

907
01:03:44.559 --> 01:03:47.639
as well in the description. For
anybody who would like to check out some

908
01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:51.559
more of your work. I'm sure
there'll be plenty who will want to do

909
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:53.559
so. And yeah, just thanks
again, David. It's been a pleasure,

910
01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:57.519
no problem. Yeah, yeah,
the cases have gone over today,

911
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.199
so obviously two of them already on
the site and they invest goation side.

912
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.679
You can look up the Irdington one
in there, you can look up the

913
01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:08.599
East Coast Greece one, and soon
you've had to look up the other brand

914
01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:11.960
new one as well. So yeah, there's a there's a section on the

915
01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:15.880
site and it's got literally hundreds of
cage reports in there written by myself and

916
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:19.119
the other investigators for Birmingham U four
group over the last sixteen years. There's

917
01:04:19.199 --> 01:04:21.599
a hell of a lot of information
in there to check out, and some

918
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:26.639
other interesting stuff on the site too, So if anybody wants to get involved,

919
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:29.119
if anybody's in the Birmingham area,
you're more than welcome to come down

920
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:32.320
to our monthly meetings which take place
on the first Thursday of every month in

921
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:35.920
Oldbury. So if you live in
the area of the Midlands, you're more

922
01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:40.360
than welcome or you want to travel. Most of our meetings we tend to

923
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:45.880
have speakers come and talk. We've
also got a Facebook community page boof Fog

924
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:49.280
truth Seekers, So I'm the sole
l admin of that site, of that

925
01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:53.800
community page. So if you add
yourself to that, that's where we chat

926
01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:59.239
between meetings and post links to reports
and interesting articles, etc. So yeah,

927
01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:02.039
come and get involved, even if
you're even if you're you live too

928
01:05:02.079 --> 01:05:05.199
far away to attend our meetings or
whatever, by all means, join us

929
01:05:05.239 --> 01:05:10.920
on Facebook and say hello spot on
perfect. Well, yeah, thanks again,

930
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:14.280
Dave, I'd love to do it
again sometime in the future. Indeed,

931
01:05:14.360 --> 01:05:16.480
yes, sure things Franks always happened
to talk. Great stuff. Thank

932
01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:27.199
you, Thank you very much.
You are funking the podcast.