Uf Podcast. Okay, so welcome to the UFO Thinker Podcast, part of
the Cohen Albans Cab Network. My name is Frank and let's get cracking with
today's episode. So today we've got with us a very special guest. Dave
Holdrin is the chairman and lead investigator for Birmingham UFO group known as BOO FOG
and the United Kingdom Deputy Representative for the International Coalition for Extraterrestrial Research ISA.
He regularly writes for UFO Truce magazine and has previously written for a number of
other magazines, and he has spoken at many well known conferences and given educational
classes on UFO investigation on television and radio numerous times, and even designed a
UFO themed card game. Since two thousand and eight, Dave has directly investigated
hundreds of sightings and contact experiences from around the world. He believes that the
evidence available as do I, of course, points towards regular interaction between numerous
advanced extraterrestrial intelligences and the human race. So Dave, very glad to have
you with us. How are you doing today? So thanks Rank here doing
great and love you to speak on the show. Yeah, great to have
you here, and obviously from what I've mentioned there in the intro, you
yourself have been pretty heavily involved now in a topic for quite some time.
I always like to I always like to ask a little bit of a background,
if you don't mind of what youse, I suppose what got you into
the UFO topic in the first place and kind of led you know to where
you are today. It's a fascinating world that we live in, and I
think many people in their childhoods can have kind of general interest in UFOs and
the wider areas of the paranormal. And that's how it started for me,
just reading books on the subject, not just UFOs, in other things,
ghosts, bigfoot, whatever, just really fascinated by all. But the more
I started to look into the UFO angle specifically, the more evidence I was
seeing for the reality of it. I just thought, there's just so many
cases on record, really really good cases with compelling evidence and testimony, and
it can't all be fabricated hoaxes. You know, there's going to be some
hoaxes and that sort of thing and misidentifications out there, of course, but
there's just so many. There's like thousands of cases on record, and it
just seems it seems overwhelming the evidence to support the reality of this actually going
on on a global basis. I started to realize that in my kind of
early teenage years, and it wasn't until the creation of Birmingham UFO Group in
late two thousand and seven was my driving force to start actively investigating the subject.
Before then, I just had a big interest. I used to go
to conferences regularly with Your Phone magazine that as many other others to do out
there, but it was always kind of a calling for me, I think,
and with Birmingham ufoone group that gave me the chance I needed to become
an active investigator. I kind of liked the idea of investigating for an organization
rather than just kind of being like Dave Hadrian investigator in UFOs, which obviously
I could have done many many years before that. But Birmingham UFOE Group they
soon after starting. It wasn't actually started by me. I wasn't the original
chairman of the group of two other people with the initial chairmen, and they
were after somebody who would be able to become the official investigator for the group
essentially and start speaking with witnesses writing up case Reports, and that's how it
began for me and a couple of years later on after that, I then
took over chairman duties of the group as well since summer two thousand and nine
and I've been running it ever since. Yeah, amazing, Thanks, And
I actually first saw your talk at the UFO identified Mini Con a few years
back now actually, and I think I've caught a few of your other talks
that you've done, and I think we've we've spoken to each other at a
few of these events. Greater, Finally, great to finally have you on
the on the show, and anyone in the Northwest area or beyond if you
fancy a bit of a road trip, definitely worth going seeing one of Davis's
presentations an event if you can. And of course it's not just a Northwest
you do talk all around the place, so people should definitely keep an eye
out for where you're going to be next day. Absolutely so. Now,
one thing that we spoke about when I caught up with you in person was
an area of particular interest for me, as as listeners of the podcast will
only too well know, which is Black Angle UFO sightings. So I believe
you have some interesting cases that we'll talk about, and I'm looking forward to
hearing about those. But before we actually get to that, a black triangle
is kind of an area that you're particularly interested in, and some general thoughts
perhaps on black triangles absolutely well, I mean, obviously, investigating lots and
lots of cases, you get the patterns emerge and the different types, shall
we say, of objects being seen by people. Obviously you've got your kind
of classic sort of sources discs. Discs are still seen today, Cylinder typecraft
are otherwise known cigars sometimes Obviously, it all depends on where the viewing angle
is, because obviously a disc sidear can be described as a cigar or cylinder
underneath you looking up at it. It's around, isn't it. One of
the one of the types that's quite regularly reported is of course, triangular shaped
UFOs, which generally seem to be kind of very very dark in color,
rather jet black blacker than black, or sort of navy blue type colors or
dark gray not there's very very few cases have dealt with where there haven't been
one of those sort of colorations. Lighting configurations on them very cose to case.
But again, you get certain patterns and certain repeated types of lighting on
these things, and it's a yeah, one of the obviously, it's it's
clear that it's a real thing that's going on out there. So sometimes,
obviously people can misidentify three independent objects glowing and they can kind of fill in
the gaps between that, especially if it's after dark, and then think they're
seeing a singular object and they describe as a triangle. It's actually like let's
say, let's take for example, three Chinese lanterns or whatever. Let's say
they're drifting. Well, obviously whatever configuration they're going to be in, they're
going to make a triangle in the sky, and sometimes that can be misinterpreted
as a single object. But I've dealt with lots of cases over the years
where people have genuinely seen a solid, structured craft of some kind that's blocked
out the stars, so they know it's there. You know, they're seeing
it before the sun set, so they can see it's a solid object with
lighting on it. And some of the cases I've got to share with you
today are going to be going to focus on that. So, yeah,
I do get them regularly reported, even up to now. One of the
cases I'm going to go through with you is literally a brand new case that
I'm working on at the moment. It's only a couple of the incident happened
in January this year, So it just goes to show that flying trendles are
still being seen regularly, and they're being seen around the world. But then
they're far from a new phenomena. There's UFO sightings of these things going right
back to the forties, fifties, etc. Yeah, that's it, and
it's I actually find it quite interesting as well as black triangles that it's actually
a relatively easy shape to misidentify because of what you say, anything three points
of light in the sky like say Chinese lanterns or you know, even up
certain planes, you know, with some lighting configurations and things like that,
you can actually can can appear to be a black triangle, you know,
triangle of some type. But of course there are the cases that have a
lot more going on. The points are something and happening there, and I'm
sure some of the bits and pieces that that you're going to go into are
going to be along those types of lines. But presumably when you do get
cited reports of black triangles, you do get some misidentifications as well. So
yeah, yeah, quite a few. And I'll happily tell people if I
believe that they've seen some mundane I feel a lot. I'm quite granded with
the subject. While absolutely believing it to be real. As you said in
the introduction, spill, you know, I certainly believe this is is real
and does involve other intelligences, but there is also a hell of a lot
of misidentification that goes on out there, of course, And as you say,
some of the aircraft that are seen, some of the military aircraft,
especially stealth bomber type, not that they're flying stuff bombers everywhere or anything like
that. One of the I mean, one of the arguments about black triangles
is of course that it's some sort of top secret military project. A lot
of people like to lean on that angle, especially with black triangles, and
I don't know why that is, Yeah, because why not lean on it
with discs or cigars or cubes or whatever, you know, some of the
other types that are seen, or glowing orbs whatever. But especially with the
black triangles, people are like, oh, this isn't alien, there's not
another intelligence in there. They're human flown things. Yeah, But there's various
bits of logic that kind of don't really fit with that for me. First
of all, if it's some kind of top secret military project, then why
on earth are the military flying them over highly populated areas. Yeah, I've
dealt with lots of cases right over Birmingham Center and that sort of thing.
Of these things, some of which we're going to go through from the Birmingam
Areus and the Weld Cup to Shery you today, and others are much further
afield. Yeah, it's going on everywhere, right, So if it is
some top secret military project, yeah, well who's in charge of this project?
If these things have been seen globally, then well everybody's in charge.
And then if that's the case, then why on earth are we not getting
any whistleblowers of that? You know? This project so called? Yeah,
on a global basis would be absolutely astronomical. There would be thousands and thousands
of people involved in that, and you'd expect at least a few whistleblowers coming
forward saying that that was what was going on, Yeah, and that there
were human made Now I'm not saying that all of them have got other intelligences
aboard. Yeah, I'm not saying that some of them couldn't be kind of
back engineered things made by humans, or we've used advanced technology to make these
things and they're now flying them around. Some of the ones seen in kind
of more out of the way areas. Perhaps they're kind of test flying them
when they've been seen in remote places. But yeah, it makes sense for
these top secret craft if there are human flown to be flown in the middle
of the desert somewhere like good old Area fifty one. Yeah, like out
there in the desert. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, it does
not make sense over highly populated areas. And another bit of logic I've got
towards them not being human is that I've dealt with contact cases involving black triangles,
So there's nothing kind of separating them. They've got the same sort of
characteristic flight characteristics, capabilities as the other types that are seen yet take for
example, good old flying dome disks. Yeah, they can perform the same
kind of maneuvers as those. Yeah. So this whole separation of kind of
trying to make them human flowing but the other types not human flown, it
doesn't really have logical sense to me. Especially when I've dealt with abduction cases
that have involved actual flying triangle craft. Yeah. A really good point.
And I think, as you say, it does tend to be black triangles
in particular that people try and explain away as being you know, top secret
military aircraft, and I don't know, maybe it's the black you know,
the stealth bombers and stuff similar to the shape. Yeah, Yeah, obviously,
it's obviously it seems more capable that humans are be able to create something
that was that sort of shape because we, of course we have created Delta
Jack Kraft yea. So it's less of a jump, isn't it than saying
that we've somehow made these anti gravitational dome discs and of flying them around.
It's it's far easier to say when it's an object that seems more streamline and
more like a normal aircraft sort of shape. Yeah. Absolutely. Anyway,
So very interested to hear about some of these cases that you've got to talk
about. So, yeah, we're going to jump around locations and places and
also age of these some of them more historic than others. But I think
I'll start with the brand new case. You're the first person to hear this
This isn't out yet on the Blooming website, so your listeners are going to
be the first people to hear about this case publicly. This is literally brand
new. The case actually came my way in late January this year, but
I've spent the last couple of months just putting it together. There's a lot
confus that's exactly where it took place. We've managed to nail that now.
And it's very very important to get exact locations where possible for these sort of
things, because I can then check various websites like flight radar, etc.
And look for known trapped aircraft in the vicinity. The two witnesses involved,
Barbara and her sons Stephan, that went mindy showing their first names, that's
what they've allowed to go out in the report. I won't share their surnames,
so I'm very very full on about witness confidentiality. We're required, so
in some of the cases we're going to go through, I'm not going to
name the individuals involved. And the incident took place between four and four thirty
pm on Thursday, twenty fifth of January this year, and we don't know
the exact to the nearest minute but we've got that rough time of it.
And at the time the witnesses were traveling back from Banbury to their home and
Stafford and the some was driving and Barbara was in the passenger seat of the
car, and they were heading north on the M forty two motorway just to
the east of Birmingham Center Century and they were one mile after the junction seven
if anybody knows M forty two, which is the turn off of the M
six North. It was very very heavy traffic that day, clear weather,
the weather was the weather was nice and due to the time of year,
obviously the sun had already started to go down. It wasn't fully dark,
it was it was quite dark, but there was still a bit of light
in the sky. And it was very very heavy traffic. So everybody,
I guess everybody kind of leaving the leaving work or whatever, heading back to
their homes, and the traffic was very kind of stopped start and they were
moving along very very slowly. They about one mile north of junction seven.
There's a narrow bridge across the motorway. I don't think it's a pedestrian bridge
as such, but not a full on road either. It's somewhere in between,
probably for construction vehicles to go across or whatever. And so the left
of this bridge and on the left side to the way along the m forty
two, Yeah, you've got trees, a line of trees right along the
edge of the motorway, so you can't really see that far into the distance
except unless you were looking right up at a very sharp angle kind of largely
blocks the view. But at this bit with the bridge, it was kind
of more open. You had an embankment that kind of leads up to the
top of the bridge, and the trees kind of vanished for a short period
of time. And they were moving quite slowly, of course, and there
was a there was a view out of the passenger side of the car to
the northwest. There was a patch of sky that could be seen at that
particular location. So of course they're moving along as heavy traffic, so loads
of other vehicles on the road, and they just keep stopping and starting,
and Barbara looks at the passenger side window and what she sees is this dark
triangular object essentially looked like an upright equial afterbal triangle essentially from the angle she
was looking at it, it appeared to be between two thousand and three feet
up. She estimated it was about two thirds of a football picture crass,
but it's two hundred and thirty feet so quite a sizable object. Now,
it's very hard, of course, to judge distances and therefore size and speeds
of things accurately, but you can usually you could usually tell the difference between
a large object like a plane or helicopter and a small object like a novelty
bloom rise. Yeah, it's pretty it's going to be pretty obvious to people
that sort of difference, and this certainly seemed like quite a sizable thing.
Yeah. Now I had three lights on it. There was a white lights
on the top point, a white lights on the lower right corner, but
an orange reddish colored lights at the lower left corner, which is interesting.
There was no other navigation lights on it at all, and no stropes or
anything like that, so none of your usual kind of bright red or bright
green lights you'd expect to see with a normal aircraft, or or white strokes
or anything. And it appeared to be stationary, but it was quite hard
for a tell because of moving along and they kind of stopped starting in the
traffic. She thinks it was stationary, but she said it potentially could have
been moving very very slowly, but it certainly wasn't traveling fast like a like
a plane. Now, she opened her window to have a clearer look at
this thing, just to make sure there wasn't any reflection in the window or
anything like that blocking her view. So she got a clear view of it
with the window down. And also there was no there didn't appear to be
any sound that she could detector, although of course she'd have background noise of
vehicles on the M two anyway. And she at this point, she pointed,
so they go underneath the bridge and they lose sight of it a short
for a brief time, but luckily when they pop out, the other side
of the bridge is still there. And she pointed out to her son at
this point, and he kind of just quickly, you know, bends down
in the driver zone and the driver's seat and has a lookout, and he
too can see this object and confirms that it's trying low appears to be.
Now, she she got to look look at this for up to four minutes,
so this was not a quick sighting numerous minutes. She's staring at this
thing. Yeah, and it was obvious to her that it was a solid
object of some kind. There was no markings on it or anything, and
it appeared to be black or very very dark in color. Obviously a lot
of light had faded from the sky, but they could see it kind of
blocking out with the dark sky behind it. And they didn't stop due to
how busy the traffic was, so at that particular point, it's very hard
to hard to stop. It might obviously sometimes you've got hard shoulder to pull
over, but they didn't. They didn't have Neither of them had a camera
on them at the time. The Suns had a smartphone, but it was
on the back seat of the car and they couldn't reach it to attempt to,
but they were too busy kind of looking at it anywhere. Baba said
she was too busy instead of just staring at the thing wondering what it was,
to really think about trying to get any footage of it. Now,
after a while, after this four minutes has gone by, she loses sight
of it at the at the left side of the window. It took a
while to work out the exact position they were on the motorway because obviously it's
fading lights and it's a very long road, and we've we've been backwards and
for is just checking out different places on Google street View, et cetera.
And finally, in the last couple of days we've nailed the exact position as
confirmed by her son, and from that we've been able to determine the elevation
that it was in the sky, et cetera. And it was, Yeah,
it was kind of She would have been looking up at it at a
kind of diagonal, so that meant that it would have been within a mile
of their location, not particularly far over the kind of open open fields to
the west side of the M forty two at that particular place. Now,
looking at this, I started to kind of study it, and of course
you've got to ask yourself first, was it some kind of aircraft? Yeah?
Well, she stays at it for four minutes. Yeah, if let's
say it was an aircraft and it was moving away from her location, yeah,
because it would have had to have been, because otherwise you just see
it travel across the sky from right to left or whatever. In that space
of four minutes. That's a long enough time to be able to see that
it was slowly moving away to the distance, and it certainly wasn't doing that.
So I don't I think an aeroplane could be ruled out completely. Now,
let's says a helicopter stationary over the fields. There's numerous reasons why it
wasn't that. So, first of all, obviously shape is all wrong,
didn't have standard navigation lights on it at all. Barba said she and son
were both very used to seeing helicopters. They've got an air ambulance and near
where they live in Stafford, so they used to seeing helicopters at different director
distances, altitudes, et cetera, different lighting conditions. But yeah, one
of the main reasons I don't believe that it could have been a helicopter is
that I checked on flight radar and there were no trapped helicopters in the vicinity
between four and four point thirty pm on that date. Now, because of
the proximity, it's not like right next to it, yeah, but proximity
of Birmingham to National Airport, it's definitely in controlled airspace both above and below
four thousand feet yere. What this means is that it's very very unlikely to
have been an untrapped helicopter because they're required to have a tracker on them because
they're being controlled airspace, So it doesn't really sit. There's a lot of
things not pointing towards a helicopter over the fields. So then you left with
what else could it have been? Right, Well, kind of been a
hot air balloon because hot air balloons are not allowed to fly after dark.
Plus I really only have one sort of light on them, just the flame
from the basket, and this thing obviously had multiple points of lights on it.
Then when was the last time you saw a hot air balloom with LEDs
on it or whatever? It doesn't really fit with that. It was certainly
too big to have been some kind of novelty lit balloon, led balloon or
a drone. I mean, it was sizable. The thing was sizable,
certainly, and too big to have been a remote control model. So what
you're left with, I mean, when you take away them the mundane explanations
as far as you can tell, and what you left with, well,
what you're left with is that it could well have been a genuine flying triangle
sighting. Now, a lot of the time the triangles that have been reported
to me at least tend to have kind of same colored lighting around around the
three points and the points, but not always. I have dealt with numerous
cases where they've had either two lights or one color and one of another like
this one, or even ones where all or three lights are different colors.
So you can't there's no kind of set rules to it. But I think
logically you could say exactly the same about our aircraft here on Earth, couldn't
you The amount of different shapes we've gotten that sort of thing, So use
the same logic if it's from elsewhere, and you're going to get lots of
different sort of subtypes and different shapes, sizes, et cetera. Yeah,
that's that's a really fascinating one. And as you say those kind of you
know what I'm known as unambiguous black triangle sightings where you know it's seen for
quite some length of time like that and moving very very slowly as well,
and you know, even stationary. I just only don't know if any any
aircraft that can do that, And that one's got all the hallmarks of a
zypical black triangle sighting, hasn't it no? Sound very very very large?
It's so fascinating. Well, yeah, and I mean with the angle,
it's odd because it looked like it was upright, Yeah, which is interesting.
But then obviously, look, she's looking at it a sort of diagonal,
so we don't really know whether she was kind of i mean, logically
if it was lying flat, she was kind of looking at it up at
a sharp angle, so it may might have made it look like it was
upright. Obviously, if she was looking at it horizontal and it was that
shape, you'd be like, okay, the things moved into an upright position.
Again, I've dealt with numerous cases where they do that, so there's
no rules. Yeah, and it's good to know you do all of the
checking on flight radar and all the various light trackers and things as well.
Yeah. I've done a little bit of relatively amateur, you know, investigations
into cases and things like that. And one of my regular one of my
regular listeners has got a really good camera set up where he occasionally sends me,
you know, footage of things that he's captured in the sky, and
one of them was a very convincing looking black triangle, but ended up we
did some quite deep digging on it for a little while and ended up finding
that particular one. We were able to locate the you know, the flight
path on a flight tracker, so we managed to roll that one out,
but obviously not so in the case that you mentioned there, So really interesting
one. Yeah, yeah, there was there was one. There was one
flight, a British Airways flight. There was, but it was traveling south
southeast. It was coming down from Glasgow and head and down to London,
went past the location about sort of four twelve, but it was way off
to the west, like you know, at the angle she was looking up
at this thing, it wouldn't have even been in sight. It would have
been far and it was moving very rapidly, so in a period of four
minutes it would have gone right across the sky and it would have obviously been
moving, not stationary as she described, so it can't have been that.
So yeah, it's an interesting one. Yeah, spot on and very exciting
to hear about this one a bit earlier than the rest of the public as
well, So thanks very much for that. Yeah. So yeah, let's
move on to another case. Now we're going to move abroad for this one,
and it's an absolutely incredible incident it's a military case involving a flying triangle
where an entire squadron of individuals, so that's twelve individuals saw this object.
I've only been able to talk with one of the individuals, the one who
got in contact with us. This is the only case of investigated in the
last however many years it's been now, is it sixteen seventeen dollars track?
I think of sixteen. It's the only case I've ever investigated that is currently
officially classified by the military, and putting out the details of it, I
was kind of slightly concerned, But yeah, we'll get to that as a
nice little line a dator story which I'll take you through. But the witness
originally contacted me on Facebook back in April twenty twenty one. It was a
fifty two year old ex aircraft mechanic who used to serve in the Greek Air
Force and took me quite a while to gain his trust, essentially because he
didn't definitely didn't want his personal details going out in this one. I wanted
to remain completely anonymous. So I mean that tells you something straight away.
When witnesses, you know, want their name and locations and stuff covered up.
It shows that they're not in it for any kind of form of personal
fame or fortune. So obviously skeptics of the subject, we'll say people are
just making up stories and they want their name in headlights, in the papers
and all that. But no, in most cases that's not the case at
all. The majority of cases, people they're rather happy to share kind of
their first name like in the previous case, or sometimes their full name,
and then you know, they say they've got nothing to hide, and you
know, and it goes out. But they're not doing it to try to
get any fame off it or anything or any money as such. It's not
like I pay them for the information. I'm just very grateful they reach out
to me. So, yeah, it comes docted me on Facebook and took
a while. We chatted backwards and forwards. Assured him I wouldn't be giving
out his name to anybody. But I also it worked both ways. Yeah,
I had to had to make sure he was or he says he was,
because it could just be some random aunt of the Internet saying that they
worked for the Air Force. Yeah. Now, in order to prove his
background to me, he provided me with both photographs of his own uniform with
his name on from the Greek Air Force, and also photos of him on
the actual base to prove he said who he was. I was allowed to
put the censored based photos in the case report, so I wrote the sublication
port as I usually do, so soon I'll be writing up the other Coleshill
case we've just gone over. But he allowed me to put in ones with
his face blacked out of the base photographs, but he would not allow me
to put his uniform in the report. That was just for me only.
I'm not allowed to state the exact name of this base, but it's a
large base on the east coast of Greece, and the incident happened in July
nineteen eighty nine. He wasn't sure the exact date in that month that it
happened, but he was part of a squadron on the base at the time.
So squadrons made up of four aircraft mechanics, four pilots and four weapons
experts, and at the time, his squadron was stationed on nights on the
base working as part of a training exercise. They were essentially going to potentially
simulate an attack from a foreign power, so they were kind of on alert,
so that if this fake attack came in, they would have to essentially
get all the get all the planes airborne as fast as possible and get up
there. But he said most of the nights would be pretty boring. They're
just they just spend their time in this building at the western end of the
main runway of the base. The mechanics and I assume the rest of the
squadron worked on a kind of rotation, So every couple of hours they'd shift
and one mechanic would stop working the other one would get to work on the
jets. And it got to twelve thirty in the morning and it was to
a switch. So at this point he was inside the building with the rest
of his squadron, just having a chin wag with them. But at this
point the other mechanic had been outside with the with the jets came in and
he headed outside. It was a very very clear nights, he said,
the stars were all visible, absolutely wonderful, and he just because he'd been
inside, he just stretches and in doing so, looks up into the sky
and it immediately notices three red lights in a triangular formation to the east of
his location. And the cinema about five hundred meters away, which would have
put them smap bang in the middle of the base. The base is very
larger than long main runway, and it was about five hundred meters away.
He judged that it was an altitude of between three hundred to five hundred meters.
Now, as an aircraft mechanic, obviously, or anybody in the aviation
industry, he's on an airbase all the time, he's going to be a
very very good judge of distances and sizes, etc. You know, far
more than a regular civilian would be. That puts it a one thousand to
one thousand, six hundred feet up essentially roughly. That's at altitude. It
was stationary. It appeared to have no sound coming from it whatsoever, just
like the previous case. And obviously sound travels really well after dark, doesn't
it. So if it was making even a low noise, you'd expect to
hear that, But he said it was absolutely silent. Now, these fee
lights were clearly attached to a dark, singular, triangular shaped object. The
object seemed to be about thirty to thirty five meters across hundreds, one hundred
and fifteen feet across, so not huge, but certainly not small either.
He called out the rest of the squadron to see it, of course,
because he's like, what earth is this? So he calls out and everybody
else comes out of the building and all twelve of them are then looking at
this thing from the end of the runway and they all stood there wondering what
it could be. And this went on for ten minutes. None of them
had any kind of smartphones or cameras on them at the time. Yeah,
they're on shift. Yeah, so they wuldn't had that sort of thing.
They didn't start walking across the base towards it, So you think in that
sort of time, they could have obviously started trying to get closer to the
thing to find out what it is. But they're they're on command to stay
near the you know, around that building area at the end of the runway.
Yeah, so they didn't start walking down towards it. Staring at this
thing and it's just up there, dead still for about ten minutes, and
then without warning, it instantly accelerates. He described its shooting away like a
bullet. It just went bang and it was gone. It wasn't like it
just blinked out. They literally saw it go and shoot away to the east,
which would have been out over the sea, over the Greek Sea,
because it's right on the coast of the base. So just and it's just
gone. Very very impressive maneuvers, obviously not mundane in any way, shape
or form. Now, at this point they expected the alarms to go off
because he thought, oh, they'll have got this thing on radar and they'll
intercept it now and they'll try to get jets up in the air to go
and chase after this thing or whatever. There's nothing. It's just silence,
no, no alarms go off. They go back into the building obviously chat
for numerous hours about what they've seen. They're all pretty fascinated by what it
could have been. And they continue their shift, and their shift come to
an end about sort of six or six thirty in the morning, and at
that point they change out with a different squadron and then went back to sleep
in their barracks. But later in the later in the afternoon, when they
woke back up the following day, they are all called to the commanding officers
building. So they're thinking this is unusual. So they him and his squadron
are called to the commander. So they went there and the commander they start
the conversation by informing them that they were aware that they'd seen something during the
nights, So they're aware that there were witnesses of this thing. I don't
know if any of them would talked or anything and it had got back to
them or whatever, or they just assumed. They're giving their position on the
base that would have seen it, not showing the details of that, but
they knew. But then they told them that it was a test of something
like an a Wax aircraft and is one of those uh it's one of those
radar planes with the large kind of disc things stuck to the top of it.
I'm sure it's seen photographs of them before. And they all knew that
that was absolute nonsense. Yeah, because Aoax aircraft continues to move, they're
like normal planes. Yeah, they don't have they don't have silently and they
very very much don't shoot off like a bullet from an instant stop. And
also the light and configuration didn't have normal navigation lights on it at all.
So what they'd actually seen was absolutely nothing like an X aircraft, and they
knew it and the commander also knew it, but that's what they were telling
them that it was, so they knew that was nonsense. But obviously they're
in the military and they don't question it because I've been told that. Then
they are told not to tell anybody about it, including their own families and
friends, and the gentleman for many many years honored that and has decided to
finally come forward with this information now is his retirement years. Obviously doesn't want
his name going out. To his knowledge, this incident is still classified by
the Greek Air Force to this day. It's a really fascinating case. And
even though it was only able to get to speak with just him, not
the other people on the squadron, because obviously many many years has gone on,
he hasn't kept in touch with other people off the squadron that he can
put me in touch with or anything, and because of the classified nature of
it, it's unlikely any of them would probably want to talk about it in
the first place. But given the fact that he validated his background, I
am absolutely convinced that he is who says he is, and I'm absolutely convinced
that this incident happened, and because of the maneuvering capabilities of said objects certainly
not mundane, essentially flying triangle genuine one. Yeah, that's a really interesting
one. I'm always kind of mind blown by these enormous things. I mean,
as you say that that wasn't perhaps one of the one of the bigger
ones that I've heard about, but still something of that kind of size,
you know, basically hovering in mid air and then shooting off like it's there's
something particularly impressive and sort of scary about thing that can do that, especially
at an object of that kind of size, you know. Yeah, it's
one of the aspects of the UFO subjects in general, of course, because
it's not just fts that can do this. It's just one of the things
that shows you that they're just not mundane. And you know, anybody who
says it's a black project to you know, who knows what we've got behind
the scenes, the capabilities of these things are farign advancer. I'd be willing
to better far in advance of anything that we've got black projects wise now,
let alone in nineteen forty or nineteen thirty or even back before then. Obviously
we've got historical sightings of UFOs going back hundreds and hundreds of years, right,
But we've definitely got sightings from back in like wartime, et cetera of
objects performing maneuvers like this. Yeah, So you can't just use logic of
we're working on black, black budget stuff and we've got you know, capabilities
in secret today because these things have been doing this sort of thing for decades.
So I'm absolutely convinced it's non human. Yeah, absolutely, and it's
it's a shame we've not heard from more of the witnesses, But as you
say, there's kind of a lot of the time with military cases, these
people they want to have, you know, a regular career and get to
retirement within the military. The last thing they want to do is start becoming,
you know, making a name for themselves as the guy who saw that
thing or indeed yeah, yeah, And of course they were told not to
talk about it, so it's not like it's not like they were just kind
of should I talk about it? Should have not? Their commanding officer literally
told them this is classified. You're not allowed to talk about this. You
know, a lot of the time they go into one of that, and
it makes you wonder how many other cases like this are out there that I've
never seen the light of day because people are just too scared to talk about
it. Yeah. Absolutely, I've had a couple of similar cases over the
years as well, not to triangles particularly, but just people, as you
say, who are actually from the military, and you know, obviously having
a podcast now for a few years, people eventually, you know, start
to email their cases in and it is always quite fascinating when you get when
you get people that okay, it is you know, essentially an anecdot if
somebody's on account of something that they saw. But when they don't want when
they don't want the name out, and they're not they're not trying to sort
of eventually get a book deal or become a celebrity, they don't even want
the name out. And like you say, I've had people with similar things
where they've been in touch with me. They've they've provided details of their background,
pictures of them on bases doing all, you know, everything they've done
through their career, respected members of the military. You know, we've had
good careers with with with glowing records, and they have seen things, you
know, and yeah, that makes it would make no sense for them.
They came forward with that information, especially not if it's something in a way
they could get in trouble about it. It's it doesn't logically make sense.
It makes sense for occasional civilians to make up tall tales. And you know,
I feel over the years, I've kind of got quite good at actually
spotting that, you know, where I can usually tell where somebody is kind
of you know, you can sort of tell a lot of the time,
and they'll say, can you can you forward this story to all the newspapers
and that sort of thing, you know, the one it as big as
possible. They want to be kind of out there with it as much as
possible, and but most people that that doesn't happen with us. I said,
so, yeah, yeah, before we kind of carry on. Yeah,
this little anecdojel story about this one is rather rather amusing and slightly odd.
So essentially, I keep all my cases, of course on my computer
that I write. Obviously the details of all electronic log records backed up from
time to time. But yeah, I've got different folders with the different cases
because obviously a lot of stuff comes my way. I've always got multiple cases
on the go at once and they've got'll keep it organized right. Well,
a while back I was going to go and check the details of this particular
case here for some reason, I think I was going to check the uniform
shots or whatever, and I went to look for the folder, and the
folder had vanished off my computer. Just this, just this one particular case.
The interesting thing is that if I, if I had deleted a fold
off my machine, you know, it obviously tells me. Yeah, it
will warn me. You know, I can't just go and delete a folder
off the computer without it, you know, giving me a warning. So
if I had deleted it accidentally, I must have also then also clearly you
know the current confirmation message, and it wasn't sitting in my sort of recycling
bin or anything. It would just gone. And I was there, and
for a very short time I was like a bit barn on about this.
Yeah, went and checked on the website. It was the case report was
luckily still on the Birmingham u FAGOD website, so that hadn't been. If
that had been if that was gone as well off the website, I immediately
would have been like, I've been hacked, you know, and it's been
removed on purpose. But it wasn't it was still on the booming u Fagot
website, so I would have to get the files back out of it and
save the report locally. Again, it's just it happened to happen with that
one particular case, the one that was classified, and I lost the photographs
as well, the photographs of the unit of his uniform that he'd sent me,
not that I was ever going to share those with anybody anyway, you
know, that was just done for my validation of him. Yeah, but
yeah, they're gone because the folder vanished. So yeah, it's just out
of all the cases that could have happened with, it happens with the one
that's classified. And I'm sure some people would go down the rabbit hole with
it and be like, oh, yeah, the many black have removed it
or whatever, you know, But I don't think that at all. But
it's just funny that happened with that. Well, you know, strange things
sometimes do happen in those kind of in those Yeah, well they don't,
that's the thing, you know, that's the thing. And you know,
i'd be naive to think that my group, alongside all the other active groups
in the UK and not being the surveillance going on. They're keeping tabs on
what people are saying and to who and where and that sort of thing.
They're they're genuinely are. I remember many many years ago seeing the It was
the It was the transcript for a program that had been on television here in
the UK with a number of high profile euthologists on its stand ind Freedman,
et cetera. And they they'd been on the They've been on the show and
it had just gone out on normal UK television. Yeah, but they got
hold of through the Freedom Information Act, So they got hold of the transcript
of this show. Yeah. And at the top of it was a load
of addresses where this transcript had been sent to you. And it not only
included our own government and the m o D, but it also included the
White House, the FBI, the CIA in the States, a number of
other companies that nobody knew who they were. There were just unknown companies of
some kind had to receive the transcript of the show. And you have to
ask yourself, why if there's a show going on in the UK, would
they even care across in the States, what's what's going on? So that
shows you straight away that sort of thing shows you that they're keeping tabs on
what's happening in the world and what people are saying about the subjects. But
most of the time they probably don't really care whether the details go out or
not. I think it's only really the really high, big, high profile
cases where the military have been involved with some kind of cover up of things,
and that's where I've tried to shut shut them down and shut down witnesses
and that sometimes even bribing. Yeah, absolutely, I think it's It's one
of those, isn't. It depends like how far you want to go down
the rabbit hole of that particular that particular line of thinking. But at the
very least governments will and militaries and you know, and intelligence kind of agencies
and whatnot, of course, are going to want to monitor people who are
specifically looking into cases of odd things being seen in the sky. Yeah,
because because at the very least those people may have accidentally caught some classified military
testing, you know, in images, and they're going to want to say,
at the very least there could be a lot more to it down that
path as well. But yeah, this certainly going to want to keep tabs
on what is being spotted and obviously if they are, and of course it
will be testing classified vehicles as well, So I'm not saying that all of
the sightings are that, but those people like like us, and particularly like
yourself who's literally compiling databases and actively seeking out people's sight of odd things in
the sky, they're going to be thinking, I wonder what if he's caught
any of our testing, And as I say, as an extension of that,
you know, depending on the extent of the uk M or these involvement
in actually studying UFOs, it could go a lot deeper than that as well.
But obviously that's that's very difficult to close across on the subject being a
lot more open in the states of recent years, of course, but still
the long way to go, should we say, baby steps? Yeah,
let's move on to another fascinating case for you. I'm going to bring this
home back to Birmingham now, and this is a case that came one of
my own years of UFO investigation, and the incident took place Irdington and area
of Birmingham, just kind of up near the center. Really, it's quite
highly populated. It's not on the outskirts of brummerun Thing and the incident took
place at some point between nineteen ninety nine and two thousand and three. Right
you probably listeners are probably thinking, why on earth is that so vague?
WHI would the witness not be able to put it down to time a year
or anything? Yeah, or even the year or yeah, that's a long
period of time, right, four years. Yeah, But there's a very
valid reason for that, which we'll get to. So this is a it's
an incredible case. It's a landing of a flying triangle. The case also
has elements of concepts in it will which we'll get to. So it involved
are two witnesses whose names are not going to reveal. They were in the
early twenties at the time, and one of them, the key, key
witness I was initially talking with, used to attend Birmingham a faux group's monthly
meetings. So that's how he first got in touch with me. I guess
his experiences led to an interest in the subject or whatever, and he approached
me and told me he wanted to talk about it. He used to live
on Holly Lane at the time of the incident, Holly Lane in Urdington.
Used to live there with his family, just normal SEMy detached houses. Opposite
their particular house on the road is this big area of rough grassland behind the
fence. They nicknamed it the Tip, and he used to go there some
late evenings taking his dog for a walk. Someone have sort of sneaky cigarettes
behind his parents back and he used to meet up with his friend and they
kind of got dog walking together or whatever across there. So on the night
of the incident, he met with his friend lived in the neighborhood, and
it was somewhere between sort of eleven pm to one am. He's not sure
the exact time, but it was certainly fully after dark. They're very very
late, and it was a lovely clear night again, really brilliant weather,
just clear and mild, and he looked to the east over the tip and
they were just standing there on the edge of the road, you know,
just getting ready to take the dog for a walk. And they looked to
the east over the tip and in the distance they could see a triangle of
red lights come from the east course to Grease. But yeah, this triangle
of red lights is just moving slowly to their left, and they in just
in the distance over the trees on the far side of this area of grassland,
and they were they were straight away. Kind of a bit confused by
it. I thought that it was a bit odd. It doesn't look like
normal navigation lights if you don't think too much of it, right, But
they realized it was starting to move their direction. As it gets a bit
a bit closer, they mentioned that there was a distortion type effect going on
around the lights, kind of wobble. I've actually had other cases where the
exact same thing has been reported, and it's possible indication of some kind of
energy field. It wouldn't say for definite, but yeah, the possibility and
magnetics we don't really know. But there was this distortion around these lights.
It was continuing to get closer. It was coming in their direction and it
seemed to be silent. And as it got nearer, they realized it was
this black, triangular shaped object coming up to a point at the top.
How they read the red lights. They could see there was a small red
light at each of the corners underneath, and then a larger light in the
middle of the base of this thing. Now, the key witness thinks this
was also red, but the other witness, when I spoke with him,
he thought it was a yellow or white in color. You do often get
these kind of little discrepancies between multiple witness statements. That's absolutely standard. It
doesn't mean that the case is made up or anything like that at all.
If let's say the police interview ten people who've seen a car accident, for
example, there'll be slight variations between their different testimonies. It's just human nature.
But this object was It was slowly towards them, and it came over
the fence on the far side of the road, descending as it came,
and I couldn't believe it. They're just standing there looking at this thing.
Mayre's the game, and it comes down and it lands in the road in
front of them. It was within a stone's throw of he said. It
didn't touch the actual road surface, seemed to kind of come down to about
a couple of feet off the road and then just stop and it was just
sitting there. But at this point, the key witness I initially spoke with,
he started to hear these very strange sounds coming from the thing. Described
it as kind of a rhythmic sort of a noise, a bit like a
dig wedoo, sort of a whoo sort of sound. Now, when I
spoke with the other witness, the other witness didn't recall this sound at all.
Yer to him, it was completely silent when it was on the ground.
A really really interesting discrepancy between the two experiences, and we'll come back
to that as a possible reason for that, which I'll explain. So,
after staring at this for about a minute, not knowing what to do,
they're just standing on the street corner looking at this thing, and in front
of them, the dog was down by his side. It just suddenly bolts
for the house and it runs straight past the strangler object and runs towards the
house of the key witness, and they don't see it again after that.
I speaked by what was happening. A moment later. The object takes off
silently, and it starts to lift off, moves that a kind of diagonal
up into the air, and they think it's going to keep going. It
kind of travels to the southwest short distance, but it stops directly over the
roof of the key witness's house, and so it kind of moved up and
then it halted about fifteen feet above the chimney of the house, and it
remained there for about thirty seconds. They're still standing there watching it, just
not knowing really what to do. And then it continued and it was lost
from sight behind the housing air so it kind of moved off against and they
lost sights of this thing. Now they wanted to keep watching it. Yes,
they run down this side road that came off Holly Lane called Hollydale Road
on the side streets and behind the housing there's a flat open area of garden
allotments behind this tall fence and you can peep over the fence and see the
allotments and what do you know, objects completely gone. No, that's again
a common thing that happens time and time again. So when witnesses kind of
lose sight of an object for a brief moment, it uses that opportunity to
get out of there. Obviously, people have different views on whether that means
that it's intelligent and knows it's being watched or whatever, or if it's just
coincidental. Maybe it's a mix of the two. But yeah, the thing
was just out of there. They can't remember what happened next. They think
that they must have gone back to their own homes. But the interesting thing
is in the morning when they woke up, neither of the witnesses could remember
it at all, the entire the entire incident had been wiped from their minds.
Now, even when they walked over to the tip, Yeah, they
had no inkling, They didn't kind of get spooked out. Now, the
only incling that anything had gone on. The only sign was that the dog
was afraid to go over to the tip after this, but he didn't know
why. Yeah, they didn't really think too much of it, but the
dog seem spooked. But not even that triggered their memories of the incident,
of seeing this objecture and the incident only came back to the key witness when
he moved house. And he moved house for his family in two thousand and
three, right so that at that point he leaves the area is no longer
on Holly Lane, And within weeks of doing that, within weeks of moving
away from the area, it just comes back to him one day, just
kind of like remembering an old memory, like you know, a holiday you've
being on a few years back, and you think back to it like that,
and he's thinking, why did I forget that? How on earth could
I forget seeing this weird tragular object come down. So he calls his friend.
Yeah, calls his friend and says, do you remember when we saw
that thing, that triangular object? And that triggers his friend's memory of it,
and then his friend can remember it too, But up until that point,
neither of them could remember it. So the trigger was his memory coming
back, and then he managed to trigger the memory of his friend just by
talking about the incident with him. Again, a very kind of I would
say, common aspect of missing time. I've dealt with other cases that like
this to the letter, where something will be completely removed from somebody's mind for
a period of time, and there's usually some kind of trigger, like there
might see a light that reminds him of the thing or something like that,
or sometimes it might come back in a dream or a daytime flashback or whatever
various ways it can come back. But again, you've got this pattern that
goes on with this. That's kind of not really the end of the story,
because he thought of this, Yeah, he thought this incident, the
key witness was thinking about and remembering this what happened, bro, And he
started to recall an earlier memory. This is really interesting. He recalled an
earlier memory of being about ten or eleven years old and sitting in his bedroom
and hearing the same sound that he remembered coming from the craft but as a
child. Here now it's we never really got to the bottom of what this
was. He wanted to be regressed, but we attempted a regression, so
I worked with a hypnotherapist here and we attempted a hypnotic regression, but he
couldn't sink into that regressive state. Some people are just kind of they can't
relax enough to be hypnotized, and he couldn't relax enough. So it was
essentially a fouled attempt at a regression. So we didn't get any further details
aback from that. But looking at it, it's a possibility there that he
was an experienced contact and maybe this craft was there for him, and maybe
that's why only he heard the sound, not his friend. Of speculating here,
I'm not saying that's definitely what went on with that, but there was
implications that potentially that could have been. So, yeah, that's the that's
the details of what went down with that incredible incident. Yeah, incredible is
definitely the word for it. It's really a really interesting one there, and
it brings up some some some interesting kind of points about differences in witness testimony
as well. Obviously, as we all know, skeptics kind of jump on
those little tiny, you know, discrepancies and things like that, and well
that's it. I mean, in some cases I kind of see why why
you know, why that analysis take place, if you will. But in
actual fact, when when we're talking about those kind of differences in the different
sort of testimonies from witnesses, you know, it's actually quite interesting. Like
you say, sometimes one person hears a sound and the other person doesn't,
and that's not actually a shaky recollection that suggests the case is a bit dodgy.
It's actually a feature than as they say. And do you think that
do you think that? Actually? I think with that, I think I
think with the sound one hundred percent. Yeah, because there's it's very I
mean, it was there for a number of minutes, right, so it
seems very unlikely that his friend wouldn't have also heard these noises coming from the
thing. Yeah, So for whatever reason, he could hear it and his
friend couldn't. Yeah, and then you've got him having this earlier memory of
hearing the same sound in his room. He's got no reason to have that
previous memory. Yet it indicates that he'd this was not the first time he'd
encountered this craft. You know that he'd encountered it as a child before.
And it's it's entirely possible that when it approached them and the reason why it
was landing in the road in front of them. Yeah, and we don't
even know if this is the whole story, right, because they had the
memories blocked out. Yeah, they lost all memory of the incident, so
we don't know whether it really was just on the road. Maybe more went
on that they're not remembering. Maybe more went on after they lost sight of
it. Maybe it came back and something else happened, And we don't know.
And we were hoping to get to the bottom of and maybe get to
the bottom of that by regressing the key witness, but it unfortunately he couldn't
be regressed. But I do believe that regression can be used to retrieve missing
memories and sort of sea passed screen memories where the beings kind of mass their
appearance and that sort of thing. I've seen some very very successful examples of
that over the girls, but obviously it's very controversial. Yeah, I think.
I think the first talk I heard you give obviously the minicon was specifically
about skin. That's correct, Yeah, I did. Yeah, because that
particular aspect of the content phenomena is something I find particularly fascinating, that the
beings not only have the well potential a bit of I should say potential,
shouldn't I because we don't know if it's definitely them doing it, as I
described in my in my lecture, we don't really know. There's a lot
of there's a lot of aspects to that particular element of the phenomena that I
believed needed to be kind of examined to a deeper level. So I attempted
to do that. And yes, it's forever fascinating to me that, Yeah,
definitely. And do you think that that that's all points into the kind
of possibility of manipulation of people's perceptions and people memories when we see those kinds
of discrepancies in not all of them, of course, because I think sometimes
there could be a discrepancy and witnesses to me that could actually blind to something
that is working. In terms of the case being a bit dodgy, but
I think certainly other times it seems it seems clear that that there is some
kind of manipulation of perception, and even cases like where there's that that case
that Jacques Vala had looked at where they saw one shape, took a picture
of it, and when they developed the photographs it was a completely different shape.
Yeah, Yeah, that's really yeah, some of that stuff. Yeah,
I've had I've had people where they've kind of tried to take a photograph
of something they can see in the naked eye. Yeah, but when they
take the photograph, there's nothing on the photograph and yeah, and they're absolutely
convinced that it was there in the sky. Yeah. That really makes you
wonder what's going on with this, And it's kind of are we dealing with
something that's actually physically there or is it just appearing to them and it's in
some sort of other realm of reality. There's all sorts of like really deep
elements that come out through through some of the cases on record and some of
the ones I've investigated over the girls are just absolutely fascinating, and that we've
got these particular aspects where you're like, wow, you know what if you
know what's exactly what exactly is going on with this stuff. Yeah, absolutely,
well, I mean we've not got too much time left, but I
was just wondering if you've got any thoughts just in general about black triangles,
Like, obviously we know they've got these, as we've discussed quite a bit
actually over the last hour. You know, they've got these often quite similar
characteristics, moving very very slowly or stationary and shooting off the no sound,
often at very very low altitudes as well the lights, which is obviously particularly
baffling on it almost seems in some cases that there's certainly not hiding if they've
got lots of lights on them and they're so low and that kind of thing.
I just wonder if you've got any theories obviously we can't say for sure,
but the theories as to what black triangles are actually doing, I mean
reconnaissance typework. I And as I said, I've dealt with a number of
contact cases where people have literally been taken aboard black triangles and have experienced an
abduction experience with gray beings and sometimes other types as well. So yeah,
I think they've got numerous different agendas. Maybe there's certain types that do a
certain thing. You know that nothing is set in stone with this, you
know, there's no kind of definite role like, oh, if it's a
really big craft, it's here for this particular purpose or anything like that.
Yeah, because I guarantee you'll find you'll find other cases that are the exact
opposite of that. You know, all we could see is the similarities in
the shapes and the capabilities of these things. The size varies, obviously,
sometimes these things are absolutely ginormous, like the phoenix, like the incredible phoenix
lights incident with the obviously that was delta shaped, not specifically triangular, but
triangular ish, shall we say. I actually dealt with the witness of a
military witness who was actually a witness to the Phoenix lights for many, many
years. I actually really really hoped that I'd get to speak with at least
one witness of that event, because it was seen by hundreds and hundreds of
people, and a number of years ago I investigated it was a contact case.
And the gentleman had had experiences throughout his life, numerous UFO sightings and
contact experiences as a child, and he'd moved across the States and served in
the military and the States and had even had contact type of experiences occur on
a full space where he was. But yeah, he was actually a witness
to the Phoenix lights incident, which was he was really fascinating speaking with somebody
had actually seen it with their own eyes. Yeah, do you know that's
a really good point. He made me think when you were when you were
talking there, I mean obviously pondered this a lot, you know what I
mean in terms of what these things are in and you know, and all
the rest of it, and had discussed it at length with with with folks.
But it's a really good point there is that the shape and size of
an object doesn't necessarily, you know, determ in the function. Like if
we look at I was just thinking, made me think when you were saying
there, if we look at the example of lorries or HGVs. Heavy good
vehicles freight trucks, depending where you are in the world, those things are
essentially the same shape, big, big old vehicle with lots of wheels that
can haul large objects up and down you know, roads and whatnot. Some
of those might be used for carrying frozen goods. Some of them might be
used to carry formula one car. Some of them you might be used to
carry people, you know what I mean, It's a very similar shape object,
but all of them have completely different functions. So yeah, absolutely,
yeah, I don't think there's any there's no kind of definite rules with this.
You'll always find cases that don't fit if you put down any particular role.
You'll find because it's such a complex subject and there's so much going on
with it, and you get a lot of similarshes, but also you get
differences coming out with cases. But I've seen enough to convince me that flying
triangles are at least some of them are non human flown things. I mean
there's even cases where they've seen these things down on the ground and have seen
alien beans, grays or whatever in their vicinity. So how do you explain
that if it's military what they're wearing suits, it's so you know, there's
there's enough going on with it that that means that there's an alien elements to
to that particular craft type. But yeah, very interesting spot on. Well
he thanks very much, Dave for joining. It's been an absolute pleasure.
I've found that super interesting. I'm sure they listen as well as well,
and I'll make sure to leave some links to burning UFO group and to yourself
as well in the description. For anybody who would like to check out some
more of your work. I'm sure there'll be plenty who will want to do
so. And yeah, just thanks again, David. It's been a pleasure,
no problem. Yeah, yeah, the cases have gone over today,
so obviously two of them already on the site and they invest goation side.
You can look up the Irdington one in there, you can look up the
East Coast Greece one, and soon you've had to look up the other brand
new one as well. So yeah, there's a there's a section on the
site and it's got literally hundreds of cage reports in there written by myself and
the other investigators for Birmingham U four group over the last sixteen years. There's
a hell of a lot of information in there to check out, and some
other interesting stuff on the site too, So if anybody wants to get involved,
if anybody's in the Birmingham area, you're more than welcome to come down
to our monthly meetings which take place on the first Thursday of every month in
Oldbury. So if you live in the area of the Midlands, you're more
than welcome or you want to travel. Most of our meetings we tend to
have speakers come and talk. We've also got a Facebook community page boof Fog
truth Seekers, So I'm the sole l admin of that site, of that
community page. So if you add yourself to that, that's where we chat
between meetings and post links to reports and interesting articles, etc. So yeah,
come and get involved, even if you're even if you're you live too
far away to attend our meetings or whatever, by all means, join us
on Facebook and say hello spot on perfect. Well, yeah, thanks again,
Dave, I'd love to do it again sometime in the future. Indeed,
yes, sure things Franks always happened to talk. Great stuff. Thank
you, Thank you very much. You are funking the podcast.