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team? Was it the Raptors at
the time? Or no? Was the

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Raptors even started on the topic?
Come on, bro Hid, tell you

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Blueire. Just wanted to take a
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Thanks for listening, enjoy the podcast

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and stay safe. Hey Hi,
Hello, Hardwood Knocks listeners. I am

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00:01:12,359 --> 00:01:19,319
Damp Valley coming at you without my
co host Andy Bailey pleased yet again to

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be joined by MBA Mats founder and
editor in chief Adam Frammel, who is

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00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,000
also an editor for Bleacher Report.
As always, follow him on Twitter at

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00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:33,040
Framl zero nine. Be sure to
subscribe, rate review Hardwood Knocks on iTunes,

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00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:34,719
download all of our episodes. That's
the best way to help us.

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00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,120
But hey, we're keeping these intros
accelerated during this time where they're but we're

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still trying to talk about hoops.
We're gonna get into our Brooklyn Nets all

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time rankings for the past decade,
so that's not all time, our top

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ten Brooklyn Nets players for the past
decade. We've already done the Hawks and

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the Celtics. I will stop listening
off the teams that we've done once it

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gets too many, once they've become
too many to fit into a tated intro.

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Before we get started, though,
we ask, as ever, Adam,

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how are you doing? I think
I was doing better before you saw

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all of my limited dance moves while
we were waiting to start recording. And

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I'm not quite sure if talking about
the last decade of Brooklyn Nets basketball is

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going to be a positive or a
negative for our moods. But we'll see.

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To be fair, it seems like
it's going to be more positive than

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the Charlotte Hornet's conversation we're going to
have. Oh, it definitely will be.

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It definitely will so just as a
brief refresher of the process, which

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will basically be eston Stone after this
episode, we have a composite ranking that

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comes from my rankings, Adams rankings, and then a fan vote. So

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everyone, when you see these tweets
soliciting responses answer it helps a lot.

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So Adam comes up with a composite
ranking, We list that and then we

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go through the individual categories to help
keep things moving and give some perspective,

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just some fun conversation. We hope
you're enjoying this, Adam. Do you

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want to get us started with the
tenth best net of the past decade?

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The kind that spoiler, Yeah,
there's there's not because we have two tied

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for ninth place. So the first
one we'll talk about here is is Chris

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Humphries, who finished eleventh in the
fan vote and thus did not get any

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points from that part. He was
not ranked by you, which means that

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I single handedly got him into our
top ten by putting him at eighth,

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which I still don't know quite how
I feel like that. I feel about

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that just because nothing about Chris Humphries
game was was special. He was a

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decent double double threat for a while
there. He He spent three and a

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half years playing for the Nets franchise, both in New Jersey and Brooklyn.

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He's probably best known for his dalliances
with the Kardashians, which I think kind

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of deflates his perception because he was
he was legitimately like a decent, good

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to good role player for a little
while, which is good enough for this

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franchise, which has suffered through quite
a few bad seasons in the last decade.

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Yeah, certainly a case for him
to be there. I just I'm

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surprised he beat out Ronne Ollis Jefferson
for the ten spot because Rone Hollis Jefferson

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we haven't gotten to the honorable mentions
yet, but he doesn't make the list

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at all, and he was my
number ten pick, so there's a vareness

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factor to him as well. Hat
tip to the Jeff T granking in the

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inaugural Atlanta Hawks podcast. And while
the Nets, I don't think it helps

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that his role kind of was deflated
as the nets got better, but there

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was always seemed like just some potential
there he's having. He had was having

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a pretty good year for the Toronto
Raptors this season. His offensive rebounding became

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like a thing, and he's always
had the air of like, oh,

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can that guy kind of be like
a little bit of a playmaker in the

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half court? You've wondered what could
happen if he finished at an okay clip

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around the rim? What if he
got more of a consistent mid range jumper,

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which he I don't know if you
could say it was in high volume,

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but the twenty seventeen twenty eighteen season
and it kind of looked like he

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was putting together a fairly okay mid
range game, and then that has sort

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of since tapered off. So I
get that he's not necessarily relative to these

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conversations like a great candidate, but
I was very surprised that he was left

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off the fan vote and then because
of that the composite rankings as well,

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which I guess I should blame you
for for putting Chris Humphrey so high.

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I mean, I stand by that
just because I always expected more from Rondae

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Hollis Jefferson than he's given. I
think at this point, like the best

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case scenario is he's like a poor
man's version of Sean Marion who can't shoot.

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Like that's desbably even generous. Yeah, but he was someone I really

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liked coming out of Arizona. I
thought it was a surprise when he fell

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to twenty third in that draft and
just have consistently expected more. And maybe

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that's influencing me here, but I
just I think Chris Humphreyes just did more

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good things for the Nets during his
brief time there. I do give the

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fewer bad things is a better way
to put it. Well, he was

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with a Kardashian, so can you
actually say that, Yeah, that's true.

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So I will give kudos to the
Nets as, particularly when Kenny Atkinson

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got there, as when they just
decided, hey, we're going to test

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Ronda Allis. Jefferson out as more
of a playmaker and there were a lot

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of turnovers involved, but he did
show some just promise as a passer,

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even in the half court. And
then they moved him around a lot defensively.

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Uh mostly, and I don't want
to say these small ball lineups,

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but they ditched the idea really that
he had to play sort of like a

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wing, and so some of those
lineups where he was the four, they

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were effective during some of that time. But yeah, it's it's this is

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like a bleak outlook when when you're
talking about either of these two players as

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it's not a promising start. No, who we got it? Number?

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Oh, who's tied for number nine? Excuse me? Yeah, so tie

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for number nine is boy On Bogdanovitch, who finished exactly tenth in the fan

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vote. He was ninth for you, he did not appear on mine,

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although eight through him at eleven.
Essentially for me, we're all pretty close.

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I just I think it's important to
remember that he was not the player

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that he has become for the Utah
Jazz this season. When he was with

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the Nets, he topped out at
thirty eight point two percent three point shooting

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during his sophomore season, and just
like, wasn't that consistently reliable offensive guy,

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even though you could see glimpses of
that potential. But ultimately for me,

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like he spent two hundred twelve like
fairly forgettable games in Brooklyn, which

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just pushed him just slightly down in
this tier of very similar role players.

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I do s he was my number
nine guy, and I make no apologies.

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There always someone that you could see
would get you a bucket, and

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the Washington Wizards certainly saw that.
At the twenty seventeen trade deadline. I

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sort of wonder what would have happened
with him specifically in Brooklyn if he wasn't

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there at the time when they were
basically playing nobody even thirty minutes per game.

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He was there for the first I
think it was the first two seasons

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of Kenny Atkinson's tenure, all three, but they weren't playing guys like high

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value minutes, and he was always
just sort of that microwave score. And

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he's certainly gotten better. His career
really took off once he got to the

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Pacers. He helped out the Wizards
a little bit, but once he got

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those two seasons he spent in Indiana
really sort of made his career, at

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least put him on the map.
I shouldn't say made his career. I

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still you could still tell that all
he could do, like he had that

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offensive versatility or where you could rely
on him to get a bucket, not

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just as a spot up shooter could
could create and generate some of his own

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offense. And so I find myself
wondering, I think he was good enough

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to make this list in the number
nine spot, and I kind of find

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myself wondering what would have happened if
he would have been in Brooklyn at a

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different time, or if the priorities
might have been a little bit different during

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his tenure there. Yeah, so
just as a housekeeping note, he was

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actually only there for Kenny Atkinson's first
season. That was the season that he

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got traded to the Wizards midway through
the year. But I think that the

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turnover in the head coaching staff kind
of held him back as he was trying

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to adjust to the NBA, because
he went through the Lionel Hollands year,

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then interim head coach, and then
Kenny Atkinson. So I don't think that

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was good for a player who is
trying to find his role. And I

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don't think that it's it's fair to
be critical of you for having him at

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number nine, because like all these
guys are ultimately like similar tiered players within

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the last decade for Brooklyn, I
think it's fair to be critical because a

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lot of that was based on a
timeline that does not exist. Apparently,

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I didn't realize he spent so much
time during the Liona Hollands error. I

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think that means that I'm getting I
call it an error too, probably as

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well, But I think that means
I'm getting old. If I'm starting to

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blend together these semi recent seasons,
this is getting this is getting weird.

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Yeah, no, I've I've had
that reaction throughout this too. It's like,

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wow, like twenty ten feels so
long ago. What happened things branded

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like the beginning of March feels like
a decade ago. So yes, this

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has been the longest millennia that we've
lived through and it's only been a month.

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Things do get a little bit more
interesting. Well not for your list

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to me, but so who did
you have? Who did you have it

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or not? So my number nine
was the composite number eight and it was

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Caris LeVert. He is also a
number six for the fan vote and number

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seven for you. So definitely I
was the lowest on him, and it's

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not I wasn't trying to make that
a criticism of what he can do when

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he's healthy. So much is the
limited availability that we've seen from him.

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I mean only two hundred seven games, and a lot of that came in

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a minor role. He's never averaged
thirty minutes per game throughout a season.

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He was pretty close this year.
We don't know when or if the season

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is going to resume, and it's
been his best year by far, which

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really held him back from earning a
higher placement, probably for everyone, not

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just me. We've seen like those
flashes of what he can do, but

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the inability to put it together consistently
kept him from rising higher for me,

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which is which is fair. I
mean, you had him basically in the

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Chris Humphreys here though, and that's
what I take. I take, yeah,

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thing he's look, he's he's going
to be really good. I think

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the extension they signed him to ends
up being at least a fair value one.

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00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,679
And you hinted at it too.
This season he's having this year,

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he's hitting a pretty high clip of
his off the dribble threes. And yes,

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I'm trying to will this season back
into existence by talking about it in

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the present tense for anyone who's taking
an issue with that. He's he's shown

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00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:28,279
you, probably since his sophomore season, that he can handle the secondary playmaking

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responsibility and what really impressed me about
his case. And also while I was

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watching it last year in the playoffs, it wasn't de'angelo Russell that was really

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00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:41,039
their most effective offensive player against the
Sixers. It was Tarris Lavert. And

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00:11:41,039 --> 00:11:45,679
whether you want to attribute that to
Ben Simmons spending so much time on de'angelo

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00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:50,000
Russell or whatever, that's fine,
but he's still stepped up and he was

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basically their lone source of consistent offensive
production during that five game series. And

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to show that type of shot making, that type of that type of talent

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at that level, I think it's
a pretty big deal. And so that's

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why I had him obviously higher than
you did. Yeah, I think you're

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missing the most compelling argument for him
over Chris Humphreys though, and that's just

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that, to the best of our
knowledge, he has not dated a Kardashian.

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He's also better at basketball too,
and I think that really helps as

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00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,639
well. Yeah. I don't know
how to rebut that one. So who

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00:12:22,799 --> 00:12:28,559
is Well, we're up to number
eight now, correct, that was eight,

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It was number eight, Yeah,
number seven before we get to number

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seven. I also think it's intriguing
that the fans had Kyrie Irving at number

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nine, and he did not appear
on either of ours, likely because he's

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played twenty games for the Nets.
Those twenty games have been fantastic. But

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I was I was intrigued by that
just because he actually got as high as

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a third place. Vote was kind
of all over the balloting and it seemed

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like some people, maybe due to
the complete lack of intriguing options at the

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bottom of this order, wanted to
give him some credit. Well, it

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00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:07,399
also kind of depends on how you
look at this and if you're just trying

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to rank the best Nets ever to
put on a uniform, and he's probably

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00:13:11,919 --> 00:13:15,080
is he won at this point.
So if people looked at it like that,

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where it could be like a Kawhi
Leonard situation in Toronto where people might

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00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,480
have him above Kyle Lowry, I
guess that's clearly not the case there because

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you said he received a third place
for it. It's weird, how I

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do think the name recognition is is
what helps him. And look, he's

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00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:31,960
been he had what was the game
didn't he dropped like fifty this season or

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four? It was forty five point
game against the Detroit Pistons. He's been

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00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,720
really good. The Nets have not
been really good though when he's on the

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court. I will say that's not
solely his fault. Their offensive drop off

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without him on the floor is incredibly
steep there. They've put together a pretty

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good defense without him this season,
So there's that trade off there. I'm

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not ready to go in the Nets
are better off without Kyrie. And then

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he did have the fifty point game. It was it was the it was

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against the Timberwolves to open the season. So if he had played, this

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is a better way to frame this. Let's say he had played, maybe

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he made something like ten or fifteen
games as opposed to most of the season

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to this point. Would he have
made your top ten list for the Nets.

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I think so. I think he
would have come in at either number

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seven or eight, depending on the
level at which he played and maybe what

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happened in the playoffs. But I
do think that there's a pretty clear top

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seven here. Yeah, when you're
looking at because I feel like you have

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to factor in the length of tenure, that there is a pretty clear top

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seven. And that's where the discussion
gets more interesting, because the clear top

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seven for me was not the clear
top seven for you. That's true.

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online wagering experts. Who is at
number seven for the composite bill Who is

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00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:39,279
at number seven is D'Angelo Russell.
He was exactly number seven for me.

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He was number five for the fans. And because your clear Top seven was

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different than my Clear Top seven,
he was number eight for you. So

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that's the the center. I'll let
you go. First year. Look,

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he had one good season with the
Nets, like one really good season last

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year. I'm not saying that.
I'm not going to harp on the fact

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that he was an All Star by
technicality, but before Carris Lavert's injury,

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like he was Lavert was the guy
that the Nets were clearly focusing on.

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And there were points at the beginning
of the season where Dangel Russell wasn't even

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on the floor during crunch time.
And I give him a lot of props

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for navigating that rough patch and it
never seemed like his attitude was a problem

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during that time. And he had
a hell of a year. I believe

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when I did the NBA's top one
hundred players this year, he fell inside

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my top forty top forty five.
And so that's a really good player.

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And what you see him doing now
while he was with the Warriors and during

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the twelve games he spent with the
Timberwolves, this is a really good NBA

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player. But when you're looking at
the time he spent in Brooklyn, where

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there's only been one hundred and twenty
nine games compared to the two hundred plus

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that Carris Lavert has appeared in.
I'm really wondering what the case is to

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put him then Over Caris Lavert is
because he had that one year where I

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still think there might have been some
confusion in this, but you could have

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justified him as a top twenty five
player potentially, I'm honestly asking here,

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No, I think for me it
was the ability to provide a sustained peak,

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because, like you said, like
it seemed like Caris Lavert was going

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to be that guy until he got
hurt. And the difference for me is

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that de'angelo Russell seemed like he was
going to be that guy and then didn't

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get hurt. So I always had
questions about the sustainability of the peak that

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he reached in Brooklyn, just because
it's hard to rely on those midrange jumpers,

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especially as a guard who doesn't draw
fouls. Ever, but he still

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made those shots throughout the year.
He still provided an incredible amount of offensive

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value just by drawing tougher assignments from
the defense every night and freeing things up

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for teammates. I think it's easy
to forget the average seven assists a game

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during that twenty eighteen nineteen season in
Brooklyn, like he was just a genuine

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offensive force for all eighty one games
that he played, which is not something

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that we can say about Lavert to
this point in his career. Wow,

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throwing some shade in his availability.
I get it. I just don't think

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you want to put Dianzel Russell as
high as eighth or if you even want

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to put him high. I just
don't. The case for me to make

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for him over Lavert is just is
really tough. I understand it. And

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there's there is that element of the
sustained peak and the fact that his peak

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in any given season has been higher
than Lavert's in any given season relative to

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the rest of the NBA, looking
specifically at their Brooklyn ten years. It's

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just it's tough for me because his
first year in Brooklyn wasn't really that impressive,

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only played in forty eight games.
It becomes tough for me. But

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you know, seven eight, that's
where we have them. We're splitting hairs

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there. I guess we are.
I mean, to me, like,

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he's still in that tier above the
Chris Humphries, Carris Lavert, Ronde Hart,

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Pallas Jefferson. Guys to me,
but Butt is not. I get

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why. I get why you feel
differently. I don't. I don't think

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there's no necessarily a right or wrong
answer here, just because it's valuing things

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a little bit differently. I will
say. So, you look at what

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he did last year, and I
believe he before this season, he,

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James Harden, and Stephen Curry are
now the only players in NBA history to

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average at least twenty points, eight
assists, and two made threes per per

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thirty six minutes different arab and we
know that guys weren't shooting a ton of

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three beforehand, but that I felt
like that was an interesting thing to track.

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I think that makes the case for
him in that top seven, I

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was trying to talk myself into it. I'm still not there, but I

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was trying to talk myself into it. Well. Fortunately in the top six

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we have all the same players,
just in slightly different orders. So at

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least we can agree there's a clear
top six. There's a consensus top six.

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None of these not from the fans, though, oh well, than

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never mind, who did the fans
have it? Number seven? Did we

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go over that? Not yet?
Because none Number seven and number eight on

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00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,079
the fans haven't yet appeared because D'Angelo
Russell was number five and Caris Lavert was

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number six. The consensus number six
is Jared Allen, who I had at

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number six, you had at number
five, and the fans had at number

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eight, which I was surprised by. Maybe it's just that he hasn't quite

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been able to take that that proverbial
next step during what was supposed to be

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an even more successful season this year, especially with the injuries that have kept

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Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving off the
floor for so much like the fact that

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he hasn't clearly taken the lead in
the rotation over DeAndre Jordan. Maybe that's

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00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,039
what held him back here, But
I've blamed the coaching staff for that,

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00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,799
not him. It's absolutely the coaching
staffs fall and that mostly applies to even

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00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,279
Kenny Kenny Atkinson, who I was
an advocate of. But there was clearly

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00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:42,519
some backdoor politics going on there because
Jared Allen's minutes should not be on the

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decline from his sophomore campaign, and
so that's that's where I think evaluating him

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00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,880
gets iffy, too, is because
there can only be so much projection here

305
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,480
since we're almost the decades, almost
technically out and whether or not you believe

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00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:00,720
there will be basketball again in the
year twenty, that's a factor in.

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But he's he's really good. He's
more mobile on the defensive end. I

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00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:08,079
think people give him credit for his
you it is just this regular rim protector.

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His achilles heel is probably going up
against stronger bigs, and yes,

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00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:15,640
that's a problem. But the fact
that he can really move in space,

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00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,039
I think that helps his defensive value. And then he's he's a solid rim

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00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:22,559
runner. We kind of thought maybe
at the end of his sophomore campaign that

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there might be more to his three
point shot. That's not something that the

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00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,519
Nets have explored since then. It's
it's fair. I wonder if this is

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00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:34,599
what hold him holds him back though. Is people wondering about his trajectory now,

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00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:41,480
because there's this DeAndre Jordan stuff going
on and DJ was immediately inserted into

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00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,119
the starting lineup after Kenny Atkinson left
the team, and maybe that impacts perception

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00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,359
of it. There's definitely an element
of, oh, this this feels like

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00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:52,359
a lateral year for him, even
though some of his counting stats are a

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00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,160
little bit better, but his his
free throw percentage dropped, he's shooting a

321
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,240
higher percentage on his twos. There's
just a lot of mixed signals there.

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00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,480
I still think that he when you're
looking specifically at his position and center might

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00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:07,279
be the only position that kind of
matters now, because it feels like you

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00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:11,160
can that's like the only spot you
look at players and say, oh,

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00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,079
they're a center. I don't even
really do that with points as much anymore.

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Regardless if you're looking at more traditional
or pure fives, whatever you want

327
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,319
to call him, I don't think
he's someone who could very clearly wind up

328
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:25,240
being top fifteen or better at his
own own position, and the body of

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00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,359
work that he's shown in Brooklyn,
aside from if you're going to play in

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00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,480
two hundred plus games for this team
over this decade, you're kind of automatically

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00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:34,799
in contention unless you're absolutely terrible.
I just think, you know, he

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00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,920
was kind of that first blue chip
prospect that they thought they had. I

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00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,960
know, there's Carris Lavert there too, but because of the injuries, he

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00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:45,759
wasn't as much of a known quantity, and I think he was sort of

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00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:49,519
the first blue chip prospect or that
what if guy to him not of what

336
00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:53,440
if, but that you know,
high level young player to emerge out of

337
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,440
the the the error that they're in
now or or the error that they were

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00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,920
working their way out of when they
first got Kenny Atkinson. And I think

339
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,559
that means ultimately means a lot.
Yeah. I think the fact that you

340
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,839
labeled him a blue chip prospect,
which is legitimate. I mean, he

341
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,400
absolutely was coming out of Texas,
even though he went twenty second in the

342
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:19,119
draft. I think that the lateral
growth, the failure to completely reach expectations

343
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,319
is kind of what holds perception of
him back a little bit here. I

344
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:27,480
mean, I remember he was supposed
to be kind of a three point shooting

345
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,839
center out of Texas. He hadn't
done it with the Longhorns. It seemed

346
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,799
like he had the stroke, he
had the ability to grow into that,

347
00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:38,279
and that was one of the things
that made him so intriguing as this seven

348
00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:45,160
footer or with the Afro guy who
who could potentially be a legitimate floor spacer,

349
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,640
but I still don't know how can
play and don't just love how he

350
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,720
plays. The fearlessness on defense is
what stands out for me most because it

351
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:56,680
seems like he's one of those guys
who is completely willing to go up and

352
00:23:56,799 --> 00:24:02,400
challenge dunk attempts from anyone. And
because of that, we've seen like some

353
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,039
pretty like standout blocks of guys like
Lebron James and I guess because he's created

354
00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:11,400
those kind of fearless highlights. That
was that was the biggest reason. I

355
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,319
was surprised that he didn't get even
more love from those voting. He's definitely

356
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,200
first team all doesn't give a fuck
about getting posterized. Yeah, he's right,

357
00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:22,880
Which is a great team to have. That's that should be a separate

358
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,160
podcast. That and the follow into
Helen back team need to do those who

359
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,680
did and so who did the fans
then have at number six? The fans

360
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,759
have cares l at number six.
I like them, probably should have put

361
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:40,720
him higher. No, Matthew who
And we're on to number five now?

362
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:44,400
Correct? Now we're on to number
five now, So number five, the

363
00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:48,359
consensus had Joe Harris, who checked
in at number seven from the fans.

364
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,680
He was number five for me and
he was number four for you. So

365
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:57,680
you want to kick it off here
as the biggest Joe Harris homer in the

366
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,599
building. Yeah, why not?
Joe Parris is good this is you want.

367
00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:10,240
He's just universally translatable type of talent
where his shooting is going to plug

368
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,240
in and work anywhere, can really
move off the ball. You can count

369
00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:17,720
him to knock down those threes that
a consistently high clip. What I do

370
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:22,079
think remains underrated about his game is
that he can put the ball on the

371
00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:26,640
floor and he'll attack open spaces from
the three point line. He'll at least

372
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,759
keep the possession moving. He's not
someone that's going to burn through the shot

373
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:33,279
clock trying to tide whether he needs
to make that second pass or put the

374
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:36,880
ball on the floor. And then
that sort of quick decision making does translate

375
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,039
into some nice playmaking from time to
time, and then he's not I wouldn't

376
00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:47,599
call him a good or above average
defender, but I do think he stands

377
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,119
up against small forwards like traditional wings
more so than people realize. He's a

378
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,680
little bit stronger than he might look
or people give him credit for. And

379
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,839
I'm not saying that he's a huge
part of why the Nets defense has consistently

380
00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:07,640
or consistently overachieved past tense during the
Kenny Atkinson days, but he was certainly

381
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,160
someone to have that specialist where there's
so often this defensive tradeoff where if we

382
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,319
want his three point shooting and his
offense, you know, we might have

383
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,759
to really take it in our teeth
at the other end, He's never been

384
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:23,519
that type of specialists, and I
would still fall short of calling him a

385
00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:27,839
three and D guy. But the
fact that he doesn't get absolutely torpedoed in

386
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,799
a lot of his matchups, and
the fact that Brooklyn can at least have

387
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,039
some confidence of putting him at the
three rather than viewing him as one of

388
00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:40,519
those one position shooting guards that goes
a long way. And he's sort of

389
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,319
I know, Spencer Dinwood. He
gets a lot of credit for this,

390
00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:45,720
and and he deserves it, But
he and Joe Harris are sort of like

391
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,440
the guys that came out of obscurity
through this whole NETS process, Like those

392
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,599
are the two names that are going
to be most associated with the work that

393
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:59,759
Brooklyn did during its darkest days.
I want to go on a slight tangent

394
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,480
because I know that this is supposed
to be themed about the Brooklyn Nets,

395
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:07,720
But how in the world did the
Cleveland Cavaliers not at least give this guy

396
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:11,880
a chance? Like all they wanted
to do was put shooters around Lebron James

397
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,480
while he was still there. But
they didn't give him any run whatsoever.

398
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:19,440
Fifty one games, nine point seven
minutes per game as a rookie, only

399
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,480
five appearances as a sophomore, while
they kept giving big minutes to him on

400
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:26,400
Schumpert Like he was a twenty four
year old during that sophomore season. We

401
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,279
knew that he could shoot from his
time at Virginia. We knew that he

402
00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:33,559
could shoot, I'm assuming from his
time in practices in training camp and stuff.

403
00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:40,319
But like, I don't get it
how he could not get any opportunities

404
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,079
in that system. There is this
there does seem to be a stigma against

405
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,880
inexperienced players for Lebron's teams. That's
I don't want to put that on Lebron,

406
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,240
but when you have such an urgency
to win, then there's not really

407
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:55,680
the bandwidth for the type of experimentation. It's true, and they were giving

408
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,160
big minutes to Moe Williams and Richard
Jefferson deep in their thirties. Like there's

409
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,920
definitely a preference for that. But
still, like if the most coveted asset

410
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,880
around Lebron is shooters. Whoops,
missed opportunity here, right? Yeah.

411
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,759
For look, he's gonna be looking
at twenty twenty free agency whenever it happens.

412
00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:17,039
Is it gonna be? Are we
gonna have two twenty twenty one free

413
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:19,079
agencies at this point? I don't. I don't really know, but he's

414
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:22,880
probably gonna be a guy that the
Lakers won't want to target with their non

415
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,319
taxpayers mid level exception. Think about
his fit on that team now? So

416
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:34,079
maybe he never Who do we have
long pause after after him? Or was

417
00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:37,400
there any discrepancies here? Because I
had him at four, you had him

418
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,000
at five, the fans had him
at five, correct, and that's seven.

419
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:42,640
Yeah, that's why he felt a
little bit. But yeah, so

420
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,160
we'll go from one Joe to another. We had Joe Johnson checking in at

421
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,720
number four. He was number three
for both me and the fans, and

422
00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:56,680
he was down at number six for
you. It's he's another guy who's who

423
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,279
was kind of tough to place for
me just because only three and a half

424
00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:02,319
seasons. But he wasn't All Star
during one of those seasons. He spent

425
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,640
more time than someone like D'Angelo Russell
playing and playing at a fairly high level.

426
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:10,559
He definitely wasn't peaked Joe Johnson with
these teams. He was, he

427
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:15,559
was in his thirties. He wasn't
taking over games on offense quite as much,

428
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,400
but he was still like that,
that valuable wing who could guard multiple

429
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,839
positions, who could get a from
scratch bucket down the stretch. He shot

430
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,839
forty point one percent on five point
one three point attempts per game during the

431
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:29,920
twenty thirteen fourteen season, Like there
was there was a lot to like here.

432
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,839
Is it possible to have underrated Joe
Johnson here and overrated him for the

433
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:37,519
one with the Hawks? Because that
might be the area that I'm in now.

434
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:38,720
You mentioned he was only there for
three and a half seasons. That's

435
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:42,920
enough for the second most minutes of
any Brooklyn Net played during this time,

436
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:48,119
and second in games played too.
Yeah, there's Look, there's the theirness.

437
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,839
That's what we talk about all the
time. Now, I just wasn't,

438
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:55,000
like you said, he wasn't even
close to prime Joe Johnson with the

439
00:29:55,039 --> 00:30:00,200
Nets. And maybe I'm still sort
of, you know, tainted by the

440
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,559
fact that they acquired him to keep
Darren Williams there. I don't know what

441
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:07,359
it is, but just knowing what
he was in Atlanta to what he then

442
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,599
became in Brooklyn. I just don't
associate him with that window of Brooklyn Nets

443
00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:15,279
basketball as much as I feel like
I should. I'd be more inclined to

444
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:19,519
look at Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce, even though both of them were there

445
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,359
for less time, And of course
i'd be more inclined to talk about d

446
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,599
Will as well. So that's where
it really falls from me. And had

447
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:30,200
he been maybe it was just a
matter of the pecking learter becoming two crowded

448
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:36,240
shortly after he got there, and
so that really cut into his production.

449
00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:41,039
He did have some you know,
he had that game I think it was

450
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:44,839
against the Bulls in the playoffs where
he came through for them, and always

451
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,200
just sort of reliable in these in
some of these playoffs situations twenty thirteen,

452
00:30:48,279 --> 00:30:52,119
twenty fourteen, there's a case to
be made that during that twelve game playoff

453
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:56,599
push, he was the Nets' best
or second best player on that team,

454
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,319
and so there's definitely a case to
have him hired. I find myself feeling

455
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:03,359
like I put him too low,
but that was more so the product of

456
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,480
I really wanted to make sure that
I recognized how important I think Alan Joe

457
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:11,440
Harris are to the Nets franchise during
the window that we're looking at. Yeah,

458
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,839
and I can't really begrudge you for
that. I wonder if it's also

459
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,880
like a case of expectations and the
failure to reach them, not necessarily on

460
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,119
Joe's part, but just the Nets
as a whole, where you know,

461
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,119
they acquired Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce
before that twenty thirteen fourteen season, and

462
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,839
they were supposed to be the next
super team. We saw the Sports Illustrated

463
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:37,279
cover Jason Kidd, who still had
some some love for his coaching potential.

464
00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:41,759
I guess was in charge, and
they only won forty four games and Eastern

465
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:45,680
Conference semifinals exit. The next season, they only won thirty eight games.

466
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,359
They were eliminated in the first round, and I think the complete and utter

467
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:56,559
failure to live up to those lofty
expectations kind of diminished the stock of everyone

468
00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:00,039
who was involved, especially the guys
who were viewed more as terhi or pieces.

469
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,640
No, I'm definitely with you there. Do you remember how excited people

470
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,720
were there in twenty sixteen when the
Nets waved him and he signed with the

471
00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:10,839
Heat and thought that he was going
to be like some sort of swing piece

472
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:15,799
for them. I love when we
get like because I totally forgot that he.

473
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,319
I totally forgot he played for the
Heat until looking it up. I

474
00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:24,319
just remember those were one of the
earlier transactions with regards to Twitter's reaction where

475
00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:27,880
it was like, we might just
be getting too excited about the name power

476
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:30,720
and it still happens. But everyone
was like, Oh, he's gonna be

477
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:34,680
perfect for Miami, Like this is
someone that's really just gonna help them,

478
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,839
He's gonna be that swing piece for
them. And he ends up spending and

479
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,279
what it was like twenty four games
there and he was I mean, he

480
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:43,640
actually was fine. He averaged fifteen
points there and shot better than forty percent

481
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,839
from three. But I just remember
how excited NBA Twitter was about the Joe

482
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,359
Johnson Heat heat fit. That's just
something that comes to mind. Can I

483
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,160
give you a quick trivia challenge as
long as you get a click away from

484
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:59,519
any Joe Johnson information you currently have
up, his basketball reference page is now

485
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,559
close. Can you name the seven
teams he's played for? Oh? Fuck,

486
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:09,240
let's see. We have the Hawks, the Jazz, the heat the

487
00:33:09,359 --> 00:33:14,160
nets. Was he on the rockets
for a minute? He was on the

488
00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:20,720
rockets for a minute, tally technically
for five hundred and five minutes. All

489
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:22,640
right, what am I at five
of seven? It's five of seven?

490
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,880
You are actually missing the Pistons two
teams of his career. He has not

491
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,000
played for the Pistons. That's when
they signed him. Why am I missing

492
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,440
the first part of Joe Johnson's career? Oh? Phoenix, duh, that's

493
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,359
a duh? But who drafted him? Where did he start his career?

494
00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:40,720
I got nothing there. I started
in Boston. He was traded midway through

495
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,920
his rookie season. Does that ever
happen to you though? Where you missed

496
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,759
the obvious one? Phoenix was obvious, Boston, I feel like was not

497
00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:52,559
so obvious, But me missing Phoenix
that would have been demonstratively terrible. Yeah.

498
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:58,119
I think I forget sometimes when like
those these guys who become something or

499
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,359
traded midway through their rookie year,
like Johnson is a great older example,

500
00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:05,759
where he started with Cleveland and was
traded to Phoenix midway through his year just

501
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:09,400
because he didn't work with Mark Price, And like, I totally forget about

502
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:15,559
that well, Joe Johnson played for
the Suns. I will not forget that.

503
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:21,840
Now you're gonna take us to our
next number? Are we gonna keep

504
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,760
going with these awkward pauses? I
like the awkward pauses as we just kind

505
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,199
of like revel in your inability to
get all seven teams? Would you've gotten

506
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,400
all seven? I would have gotten
the early ones I knew. I knew

507
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,400
he started in Boston and then went
to Phoenix. I don't know, Like

508
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,199
I said, I forgot that he
played with the Heat. I think that

509
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,800
I think I would have gotten six
and missed that one. I got six

510
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,440
in miss Boston. What do you
want from me? Just because I named

511
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,239
Phoenix last? Yeah, But I
posed the challenge so I didn't have to

512
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:52,679
answer it, which was great work
on my part. So Joe Johnson was

513
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,440
in the composite. Number four,
who was number three. Number three in

514
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,639
the composite is Spencer Dinwoodie, who
was number three for you was number for

515
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,400
both me and the fans. And
he was another tough one to place because

516
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,519
all of them are for this franchise
when very few people have played more than

517
00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:14,320
two hundred games. The two were
easy. The top two were easy.

518
00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:20,320
The top two were definitely easy.
But yeah, what he's doing this year,

519
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,800
what he did at the end of
last year, what he did in

520
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,480
the playoffs last year, is not
what he's done throughout his time in Brooklyn,

521
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:30,000
which I think is why I had
him a little bit lower than you,

522
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,760
just because he didn't he only shot
thirty eight point seven percent from the

523
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,440
field as a sophomore. He only
played twenty two point six minutes per game

524
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,960
as a rookie, or not as
a rookie, and not as a sophomore

525
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:45,000
a rookie and sophomore with Brooklyn because
he played for Detroit at the beginning of

526
00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:52,880
his career. But yeah, I
just I struggled with how we weigh what

527
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:59,719
he's done this year during the abbreviated
season. He definitely is a guy that

528
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,800
I associate with shooting so much better
from three point reigns than he actually does

529
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,000
when you look at his percentages,
and I could see they're sort of being

530
00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:10,280
this struggle where people were talking about
him as an All Star fringe All Star.

531
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,239
It does feel like that ceiling is
sort of overambitious, But look,

532
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,320
averaging over twenty points per game in
the NBA, like he's doing this season's

533
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,039
that's not easy, and he can
really command an offense, someone to get

534
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,880
someone you have who you can count
on to attack in the half court and

535
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,440
crunch times. He's a pretty good
pastor. It's finishing m around the rim

536
00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:35,119
is improved over the past two seasons. It does feel like there are a

537
00:36:35,159 --> 00:36:39,320
lot of times maybe he complains a
little bit too much about the I shouldn't

538
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,079
say the lack of but the absence
of a whistle in certain instances. But

539
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:45,559
he's brought his free throw temph rate
off a bunch over the past two seasons

540
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,119
as well, at least relative to
his first two years. His first season

541
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:52,599
in Brooklyn, excuse me, where
it really fell off a cliff. He's

542
00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:58,480
the closest thing I feel like they've
had to just a steadying presence throughout this

543
00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:04,159
decade. Brook Lopez is certainly there. It's just maybe the timing of when

544
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:07,000
he actually left, and then some
of the injuries he dealt with early on,

545
00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:10,159
perhaps that takes it away. But
he's certainly right there. Dinwood.

546
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:14,360
He has been consistently good for them, and it ends up being just this

547
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,719
hell of a fine. Like I
said when I was talking about Joe Johnson,

548
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,880
just a hugely valuable product to come
out of what was supposed to be

549
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,159
this barren uh, this barren time
where they didn't really have traff picks,

550
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:28,400
didn't have trade assets, and to
be able to do on Earth players or

551
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,159
take chances on players like like Dinwoody
and give him the freedom to fail for

552
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:37,760
stretches, and I think it's I
think it's been huge for the Nets for

553
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:44,000
his career as well, and just
someone probably does give you some limitations defensively.

554
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,599
I don't think he translates to the
two and three spots as well as

555
00:37:45,639 --> 00:37:49,840
he probably should. And then,
as you've mentioned before, defending point guards

556
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,880
is just hell on Earth for everybody, no matter how good you are.

557
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,800
But all he can do on offense, I don't know if you want him

558
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,760
being your your league guard, starting
every single game and then heading playoffs.

559
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,639
But I would say that if he
came off the bench for an entire year,

560
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:08,320
he's probably sixth man of a year
and that's that's not his ceiling,

561
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,280
but I'm saying he's that he's that
quintessential sixth man of the of the year

562
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,719
guy, and I think that's right. That's huge. Yeah, And he's

563
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:21,320
under contract for two more seasons with
Brooklyn at a reasonable price. He strikes

564
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,880
me as the kind of guy who
would want to stay in place on another

565
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:29,199
longer deal. Maybe that's just a
gut feeling, but I don't know that

566
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:32,239
I would be surprised if a decade
from now we were looking back and he'd

567
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:38,039
passed both of our top two.
I think last year we we saw the

568
00:38:38,119 --> 00:38:43,199
ceiling that he could hit, but
it was brief. This year we've seen

569
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,840
that he can string together those kind
of offensive offensive performances night in and night

570
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,760
out, even with a three point
shot that kind of flucally hasn't been finding

571
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,559
home quite as much. I think
as that progresses to a more reasonable career,

572
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:01,320
mean we're going to see him get
slightly better on the offensive end,

573
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:06,159
and as he becomes more accustomed to
carrying such a heavy load on offense,

574
00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:08,960
we could see some level of defensive
growth as well, like we see from

575
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,360
so many guards who are unaccustomed to
taking on those burdens. So for me,

576
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:19,519
like he was tough to place between
the three, four, five,

577
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:22,320
and six spots for me, but
I think of all of those guys like

578
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:27,719
he's the one I can see with
the most helium like I wouldn't be surprised

579
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,960
if he ascends to those number one
or two spots down the road. It's

580
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,320
interesting to think about that. There's
just and look on offense, There's just

581
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,960
this smoothness to his offensive game,
and I think that's why you trust,

582
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,719
even when he's pulling up off the
dribble, that his three pointers are going

583
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,519
to go down even though statistically they've
been well below the league average over the

584
00:39:44,559 --> 00:39:47,800
past right for seasons. I think
he and jim Al Murray are my primary

585
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,320
examples of that, where it's just
like guys who play with either smoothness or

586
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,119
confidence to the degree that you can't
help but trust it. That's a good

587
00:39:55,159 --> 00:40:01,039
way to put it. Number two
who we got number two unanimously across the

588
00:40:01,039 --> 00:40:07,559
board. We have Darren Williams,
who was not Utah Jazz Darren Williams when

589
00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:12,800
he came to Brooklyn. I think
they wanted him to be Utah Jazz Darren

590
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,679
Williams. They paid him like he
was Utah Jazz Darren Williams. He wasn't,

591
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:16,960
but he was still good for how
much of an issue that was To

592
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:21,119
get to basically ensure that he'd stay, they traded for Joe Johnson. Didn't

593
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:24,880
they trade for Jarald Wallace as well? Ye before that they want to such

594
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:30,840
great lengths to maximize his window,
and that definitely backfired. Yeah, I

595
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:37,159
mean the first the first full season, he struggled a lot when he first

596
00:40:37,159 --> 00:40:39,719
came to New Jersey. He slashed
thirty four nine, twenty seven one seventy

597
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:45,079
nine three during that first twelve game
stint, But his first full season with

598
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:49,440
the Nets was pretty solid. He
didn't shoot as efficiently as he did with

599
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,320
the Jazz. His knees were already
starting to give way a little bit.

600
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,960
But man, that crossover was so
devastating, and the physicality with which he

601
00:40:57,039 --> 00:41:02,159
played like he knowed, he knew
how to leverage, he knowed He's throwing

602
00:41:02,199 --> 00:41:07,599
off my grasp of English, just
remembering that crossover and just like how well

603
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,679
he could use that frame, you
know, six two sixty three, two

604
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,519
hundred pounds. But it seemed like
he played a little heavier than that,

605
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:19,079
and not necessarily in a bad way
during the beginning of that that Nets portion.

606
00:41:19,159 --> 00:41:22,679
You know, guys, guys who
could get past their defender and seal

607
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,360
him off and create in the lane
like he was. He was really good

608
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:30,360
at the beginning, but then I
think the injuries and the advancing age kind

609
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,400
of sapped more from him than we've
seen from other players. Yeah, for

610
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,960
sure. And I don't know if
he was maybe miscast as alpha on a

611
00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:42,480
team, but I don't think he
was. It was just a little late.

612
00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:45,360
Yeah, I mean, there was
the conversation when he was in Utah.

613
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,320
There was there was a Chris Paul
versus Williams debate like that was legitimate

614
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:54,000
for like ten days. But it
was a conversation that people could actually have.

615
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,679
I think Chris Paul always came out
on top pretty clearly, but it

616
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,079
was a conversation that people actually had
and you wouldn't laugh at. I just

617
00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:07,719
remember how much it seemed like Paul
Pierson Kevin Garnett hated him after their time

618
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,360
with the Nets was over, And
so that makes you questions a lot of

619
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,519
different things. But yeah, I
mean, as you mentioned, with his

620
00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:17,440
knees, and then his efficiency really
fell off a cliff once he got right,

621
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,079
once he got to Brooklyn. He
had like the like sort of a

622
00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:24,360
rebound season in thirteen fourteen where he
started hitting more of his two pointers again,

623
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,079
but it was basically and look,
his two Pointers never hit rock bottom,

624
00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:32,920
but the next season twenty fourteen twenty
fifteen shoots thirty nine point five percent

625
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,800
from inside the arc. It was
just it was a swift decline for him,

626
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,000
uh the and the package they gave
up for him. I don't know

627
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:43,880
how much it hurts in retrospect,
but that it seemed like when they got

628
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,000
him, it seems like a reaction
to the Knicks got Carmelo Anthony. We

629
00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:52,400
need to do this, and I
think that's totally fair. So they end

630
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:58,280
up giving up what became Derek Favors, Devin Harris cash and the Ennis Canner

631
00:42:58,519 --> 00:43:00,679
draft pick and the Gorgy Yank draft
pick. A lot of Biggs involved in

632
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:07,400
that trade when looking in hindsight,
So I still will associate Williams more with

633
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,800
the Jazz than I will with the
Nets. And I don't know that he

634
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:15,599
ever would have came in contention with
Brook Lopez for the number one spot spoilers,

635
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:20,599
but I do feel like that's a
big reason why I don't even feel

636
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,800
great about putting him at number two. Where why I'd be willing to listen

637
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:28,400
to arguments at this point maybe for
Spencer Dinwoodie, if not now then probably

638
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,679
by next season. Yeah, I
think the biggest thing that held him back

639
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,320
was just an inability to accept how
his game was changing. It's easy to

640
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,480
forget just how good a facilitator he
was with Utah, and I think he

641
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:46,920
forgot that in Brooklyn, where we
should have seen his field goal attempt to

642
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:52,719
rate to climb as he stopped gaining
as much separation from defenders. He should

643
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,199
have tried to leverage that passing vision
even more, but he didn't, and

644
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,719
I think just playing the wrong way. We see see guy's age gracefully,

645
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:06,559
Vince Carter maybe as the primary example
of a guy who successfully made the transition

646
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:12,639
from bona fide superstar to good,
impactful, valuable role player, and then

647
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:19,039
we see guys like Darren Williams who
just seemed unable to accept what was changing

648
00:44:19,159 --> 00:44:22,960
and it held him back. No, I think that makes perfect sense for

649
00:44:23,039 --> 00:44:25,639
him. And yeah, I mean
he was I don't know if you would

650
00:44:25,639 --> 00:44:30,360
say he was the craftiest pastor,
but he had like a ton of games

651
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:36,199
where he just dished out so many
assists. I think he has five twenty

652
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:38,320
assists games and his career twenty or
morriss games for his career, which is

653
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:43,360
just absolutely Bonkers, he has six. I just looked it up. They

654
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,880
had six on six different occasions between
two thousand and seven twenty twelve. He

655
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,559
died out twenty or more. I
remember the twenty assists game with New Jersey,

656
00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:55,480
but he had had four different seasons, two in Utah where he had

657
00:44:55,519 --> 00:45:01,360
over twenty DESI press he was good. Once upon a time, he was

658
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,679
all right number one. I don't
think we need much of a drum roll

659
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:12,400
because it's across the board brook Lopez, which is like, like a minute

660
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,400
here, he did get a vote
as we're going to go over in the

661
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,039
honorable mentions, But yeah, I
mean, was there any was there any

662
00:45:17,079 --> 00:45:21,440
doubt that brook Lopez was going to
be number one? Not only was he

663
00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:25,719
a good consistent source of offensive production
for them. Maybe not the defender he's

664
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,840
become with the Milwaukee Bucks, but
you know, he played one hundred ten

665
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,519
more games than anybody else. He
logged twelve thousand, five hundred and ninety

666
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:37,039
minutes. Seconds was Joe Johnson at
nine thousand, nine hundred forty two.

667
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,840
Like, even if we take out
the fact that Brolo was actually good at

668
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,199
basketball, like the vereness factor alone
makes him a legitimate contender for number one,

669
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:52,280
and I think everyone recognized that.
I really give him credit for this

670
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,840
didn't make his entire case for me. But that season, the final season

671
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,480
he spent in Brooklyn, I believe
it was Kenny Atkinson's first year twenty sixteen

672
00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:02,159
twenty seven team, and I was
around that team a lot, and for

673
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:06,800
someone who had been through so many
different iterations of the nets, he was,

674
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,239
though, always in good spirits and
the way he was asked to change

675
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:15,880
his game was not something that he
ever publicly or seemingly privately pushed back against.

676
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,679
He took a bunch more three pointers
and he hit them at a respectable

677
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,679
clip. That's when he really became
a better passer was that year, though

678
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:29,320
that kind of started in twenty fifteen
twenty sixteen as well. So I just

679
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,760
respect during those times where Brooklyn was
just undergoing so much change and knowing how

680
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,639
much how many different versions of the
team he'd already lived through, and knowing

681
00:46:37,679 --> 00:46:39,280
what his bread and butter was when
you look at post ups, for him

682
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:44,559
to change or adapt so starkly,
That's something I'll always remember, and I

683
00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:49,039
think it rings truer now because of
what he's been able to do since since

684
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:52,519
joining the Bucks. People sort of
wrote him off when he spent that let's

685
00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:55,880
call it a gap year with the
Lakers. He's still really good, and

686
00:46:57,039 --> 00:47:00,639
like you said, I don't think
he was quite the defender he is now.

687
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:01,880
A lot of that might just have
to do with the personnel around him

688
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:07,199
too. His roles a little bit
different, and then also the personnel around

689
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,960
him is obviously a ton different and
the game is played differently than it was.

690
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,000
And let's say twenty thirteen, twenty
fourteen, but he was always a

691
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,599
guy that was dependable as a shot
blockler. I think now we're seeing that

692
00:47:16,639 --> 00:47:21,480
he was never just this terrible rebounder. That he added value as a guy

693
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,880
who could really box out. And
even in Brooklyn during the season he spent

694
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,320
with Kenny Atkins and that was a
big focus, where let's box out and

695
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,639
make sure our guards can get the
ball and then get out in transition.

696
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:35,039
And so he's always provided value there
too. And just to underscore how stark

697
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,760
that difference was. During his first
eight seasons, he took thirty one three

698
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,599
pointers total, not per season,
but total he made three of them.

699
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:46,639
That is nine point seven person.
I'm not missing a digit like Marcus Smart

700
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:52,719
in the clutch, even though you
think that no way to interrupt my point

701
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:59,760
with just a knife. Anyway,
during that twenty sixteen seventeen season, you

702
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,079
ref he took three hundred and eighty
seven and made one thirty four, which

703
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:06,760
is thirty four point six percent,
And that was a huge jump. And

704
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,800
I do think that that even if
even if part of it was by design

705
00:48:12,039 --> 00:48:15,239
and there was more of a boxing
space for the guards, Like, imagine

706
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,639
how good he would have been if
he wasn't like one of the worst seven

707
00:48:19,679 --> 00:48:23,320
foot rebounders we've seen because he was
like maybe he was boxing out, maybe

708
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,519
he was better than like the raw
numbers show, but like he was still

709
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:35,679
one of the worst high volume seven
foot rebounders we've seen statistically, and there

710
00:48:35,679 --> 00:48:39,280
are other ways to know it's true, and we see I mean like Steve

711
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:44,119
Steven Adams, right, like his
rebounding totals were lower because he cleared space

712
00:48:44,159 --> 00:48:46,440
for Russell Westbrook for so much time, right, and like to some extent,

713
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:51,679
like brook Lopez was doing that in
Brooklyn, but but not not to

714
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,400
that extent. Now that you're done
shitting all over Brolow, can you get

715
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,039
to the I would have gone to
call them honorable mentions. Names who were

716
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:01,119
in contentions a corner to the fan
vote. Yeah, I don't know what

717
00:49:01,199 --> 00:49:05,800
to call him, because it gets
it gets pretty bad pretty quickly. But

718
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:09,159
players who are outside of the top
ten in the fan vote but did show

719
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:14,800
up on ballots. We have Jeremy
Lynn and Chris Humphries tied at number eleven.

720
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:17,679
We have Paul Pierce at thirteen.
We have Kevin Garnett and Ronde Hollis

721
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,519
Jefferson tied at fourteen. We have
Devin Harris and Demari Carroll tied at sixteen,

722
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:28,400
Mason Plumly alone in eighteenth, Reggie
Evans, Keith Bogans, and Thaddeus

723
00:49:28,519 --> 00:49:32,199
Young tied at nineteenth, Gerald Wallace
alone at twenty second, and then a

724
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,400
big tie of guys who showed up
on one ballot in the tenth spot,

725
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:42,079
so tied at twenty third. We
have Andre Blatch, DeAndre Jordan, Sean

726
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:46,079
Kilpatrick, Jason Terry, and my
personal favorite, Kevin Durant, who has

727
00:49:46,119 --> 00:49:52,000
not played a game for Brooklyn yet. Right, that's so tough that both

728
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,960
he and Kyrie would have made the
list, at least for me, had

729
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:58,000
they played. Let's say I'm like
half the season or more. But I

730
00:49:58,039 --> 00:50:00,440
don't know how you put unless you're
just saying who's the best player ever?

731
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:07,679
Leadership? Yeah, maybe he's DeAndre
Jordan's favorite Net ever because that would make

732
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:12,639
sense. Yeah, I mean maybe
so. I guess this theory doesn't quite

733
00:50:12,639 --> 00:50:15,599
work because DeAndre Jordan and Kevin Durant
both only got one tenth place vote.

734
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:20,719
But maybe, like you view the
fact that DeAndre Jordan is on the team

735
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,280
as a credit to Kevin Durant and
then you want to give him some love.

736
00:50:23,559 --> 00:50:27,039
I don't know. I'm trying to
justify it a million different ways in

737
00:50:27,079 --> 00:50:29,679
my head, but I'm failing with
all of them. Well, I mean,

738
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,119
if you did this off the top
of your head instead of researching it,

739
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:35,559
maybe you just can't think of ten
names. And I've been trying to

740
00:50:35,559 --> 00:50:37,800
be me, but you're if you're
not a NETS fan, maybe you just

741
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,719
can't think of ten names off the
top of your head to put to put

742
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,840
in there. I guess. But
like, I've also seen some of the

743
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,880
ballots where in the eighth, ninth, and tenth spots people are just like

744
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:53,239
don't care or no one because we're
requiring answers to all ten and people are

745
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,599
finding ways around that, which is
valid, which is totally fair. But

746
00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:01,039
yeah, Kevin Durant got a vote. I am surprised Allen Anderson didn't get

747
00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:05,519
a vote. Thirteenth and minutes played
over the past ten years for the Nets,

748
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,039
that's pretty damn high. Here's a
Telovitch was eleven in games played.

749
00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:10,480
I think it didn't get any love. I'm not gonna lie. I thought

750
00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:15,800
about putting him tenth, thought about
it cursory, but I wasn't gonna leave

751
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:20,400
off. Yeah. I couldn't leave
off Ronde Hollis Jefferson for him. I

752
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:22,199
might have considered if it was between
Chris Humphreys and him, we might have

753
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:28,920
had had a conversation. This has
been the Brooklyn Nets all decade rankings though,

754
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,159
hope you enjoyed them again. Follow
Adam on Twitter at from all zero

755
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:38,599
nine. Please remember rate review and
subscribe to this tune with the Charlotte Hornets

756
00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:43,159
one, we promised for less awkward
transitions from player to player. That might

757
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:45,440
have been This might have been the
worst podcast that we did. With that,

758
00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:49,840
I take ownership of it as the
person in charge of seguing until next

759
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,920
time, though I leave everybody with
the shout out too. You know what

760
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,360
Alan Anderson thirteenth and game played for
the metso in the best decade, Shout

761
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:04,880
out to you, Alan Anderson,
Sugar Ray, Leonard, Roberto Duran,

762
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,960
Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas
Hearns. Legends whose four way rivalry define

763
00:52:10,039 --> 00:52:15,639
one of the greatest errors in boxing
history, relive their decade of dominance in

764
00:52:15,679 --> 00:52:20,440
the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four part series premiering Sunday,

765
00:52:20,519 --> 00:52:22,400
June sixth, only on Showtime