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But hey, we're keeping these intros accelerated during this time where they're but we're
still trying to talk about hoops. We're gonna get into our Brooklyn Nets all
time rankings for the past decade, so that's not all time, our top
ten Brooklyn Nets players for the past decade. We've already done the Hawks and
the Celtics. I will stop listening off the teams that we've done once it
gets too many, once they've become too many to fit into a tated intro.
Before we get started, though, we ask, as ever, Adam,
how are you doing? I think I was doing better before you saw
all of my limited dance moves while we were waiting to start recording. And
I'm not quite sure if talking about the last decade of Brooklyn Nets basketball is
going to be a positive or a negative for our moods. But we'll see.
To be fair, it seems like it's going to be more positive than
the Charlotte Hornet's conversation we're going to have. Oh, it definitely will be.
It definitely will so just as a brief refresher of the process, which
will basically be eston Stone after this episode, we have a composite ranking that
comes from my rankings, Adams rankings, and then a fan vote. So
everyone, when you see these tweets soliciting responses answer it helps a lot.
So Adam comes up with a composite ranking, We list that and then we
go through the individual categories to help keep things moving and give some perspective,
just some fun conversation. We hope you're enjoying this, Adam. Do you
want to get us started with the tenth best net of the past decade?
The kind that spoiler, Yeah, there's there's not because we have two tied
for ninth place. So the first one we'll talk about here is is Chris
Humphries, who finished eleventh in the fan vote and thus did not get any
points from that part. He was not ranked by you, which means that
I single handedly got him into our top ten by putting him at eighth,
which I still don't know quite how I feel like that. I feel about
that just because nothing about Chris Humphries game was was special. He was a
decent double double threat for a while there. He He spent three and a
half years playing for the Nets franchise, both in New Jersey and Brooklyn.
He's probably best known for his dalliances with the Kardashians, which I think kind
of deflates his perception because he was he was legitimately like a decent, good
to good role player for a little while, which is good enough for this
franchise, which has suffered through quite a few bad seasons in the last decade.
Yeah, certainly a case for him to be there. I just I'm
surprised he beat out Ronne Ollis Jefferson for the ten spot because Rone Hollis Jefferson
we haven't gotten to the honorable mentions yet, but he doesn't make the list
at all, and he was my number ten pick, so there's a vareness
factor to him as well. Hat tip to the Jeff T granking in the
inaugural Atlanta Hawks podcast. And while the Nets, I don't think it helps
that his role kind of was deflated as the nets got better, but there
was always seemed like just some potential there he's having. He had was having
a pretty good year for the Toronto Raptors this season. His offensive rebounding became
like a thing, and he's always had the air of like, oh,
can that guy kind of be like a little bit of a playmaker in the
half court? You've wondered what could happen if he finished at an okay clip
around the rim? What if he got more of a consistent mid range jumper,
which he I don't know if you could say it was in high volume,
but the twenty seventeen twenty eighteen season and it kind of looked like he
was putting together a fairly okay mid range game, and then that has sort
of since tapered off. So I get that he's not necessarily relative to these
conversations like a great candidate, but I was very surprised that he was left
off the fan vote and then because of that the composite rankings as well,
which I guess I should blame you for for putting Chris Humphrey so high.
I mean, I stand by that just because I always expected more from Rondae
Hollis Jefferson than he's given. I think at this point, like the best
case scenario is he's like a poor man's version of Sean Marion who can't shoot.
Like that's desbably even generous. Yeah, but he was someone I really
liked coming out of Arizona. I thought it was a surprise when he fell
to twenty third in that draft and just have consistently expected more. And maybe
that's influencing me here, but I just I think Chris Humphreyes just did more
good things for the Nets during his brief time there. I do give the
fewer bad things is a better way to put it. Well, he was
with a Kardashian, so can you actually say that, Yeah, that's true.
So I will give kudos to the Nets as, particularly when Kenny Atkinson
got there, as when they just decided, hey, we're going to test
Ronda Allis. Jefferson out as more of a playmaker and there were a lot
of turnovers involved, but he did show some just promise as a passer,
even in the half court. And then they moved him around a lot defensively.
Uh mostly, and I don't want to say these small ball lineups,
but they ditched the idea really that he had to play sort of like a
wing, and so some of those lineups where he was the four, they
were effective during some of that time. But yeah, it's it's this is
like a bleak outlook when when you're talking about either of these two players as
it's not a promising start. No, who we got it? Number?
Oh, who's tied for number nine? Excuse me? Yeah, so tie
for number nine is boy On Bogdanovitch, who finished exactly tenth in the fan
vote. He was ninth for you, he did not appear on mine,
although eight through him at eleven. Essentially for me, we're all pretty close.
I just I think it's important to remember that he was not the player
that he has become for the Utah Jazz this season. When he was with
the Nets, he topped out at thirty eight point two percent three point shooting
during his sophomore season, and just like, wasn't that consistently reliable offensive guy,
even though you could see glimpses of that potential. But ultimately for me,
like he spent two hundred twelve like fairly forgettable games in Brooklyn, which
just pushed him just slightly down in this tier of very similar role players.
I do s he was my number nine guy, and I make no apologies.
There always someone that you could see would get you a bucket, and
the Washington Wizards certainly saw that. At the twenty seventeen trade deadline. I
sort of wonder what would have happened with him specifically in Brooklyn if he wasn't
there at the time when they were basically playing nobody even thirty minutes per game.
He was there for the first I think it was the first two seasons
of Kenny Atkinson's tenure, all three, but they weren't playing guys like high
value minutes, and he was always just sort of that microwave score. And
he's certainly gotten better. His career really took off once he got to the
Pacers. He helped out the Wizards a little bit, but once he got
those two seasons he spent in Indiana really sort of made his career, at
least put him on the map. I shouldn't say made his career. I
still you could still tell that all he could do, like he had that
offensive versatility or where you could rely on him to get a bucket, not
just as a spot up shooter could could create and generate some of his own
offense. And so I find myself wondering, I think he was good enough
to make this list in the number nine spot, and I kind of find
myself wondering what would have happened if he would have been in Brooklyn at a
different time, or if the priorities might have been a little bit different during
his tenure there. Yeah, so just as a housekeeping note, he was
actually only there for Kenny Atkinson's first season. That was the season that he
got traded to the Wizards midway through the year. But I think that the
turnover in the head coaching staff kind of held him back as he was trying
to adjust to the NBA, because he went through the Lionel Hollands year,
then interim head coach, and then Kenny Atkinson. So I don't think that
was good for a player who is trying to find his role. And I
don't think that it's it's fair to be critical of you for having him at
number nine, because like all these guys are ultimately like similar tiered players within
the last decade for Brooklyn, I think it's fair to be critical because a
lot of that was based on a timeline that does not exist. Apparently,
I didn't realize he spent so much time during the Liona Hollands error. I
think that means that I'm getting I call it an error too, probably as
well, But I think that means I'm getting old. If I'm starting to
blend together these semi recent seasons, this is getting this is getting weird.
Yeah, no, I've I've had that reaction throughout this too. It's like,
wow, like twenty ten feels so long ago. What happened things branded
like the beginning of March feels like a decade ago. So yes, this
has been the longest millennia that we've lived through and it's only been a month.
Things do get a little bit more interesting. Well not for your list
to me, but so who did you have? Who did you have it
or not? So my number nine was the composite number eight and it was
Caris LeVert. He is also a number six for the fan vote and number
seven for you. So definitely I was the lowest on him, and it's
not I wasn't trying to make that a criticism of what he can do when
he's healthy. So much is the limited availability that we've seen from him.
I mean only two hundred seven games, and a lot of that came in
a minor role. He's never averaged thirty minutes per game throughout a season.
He was pretty close this year. We don't know when or if the season
is going to resume, and it's been his best year by far, which
really held him back from earning a higher placement, probably for everyone, not
just me. We've seen like those flashes of what he can do, but
the inability to put it together consistently kept him from rising higher for me,
which is which is fair. I mean, you had him basically in the
Chris Humphreys here though, and that's what I take. I take, yeah,
thing he's look, he's he's going to be really good. I think
the extension they signed him to ends up being at least a fair value one.
And you hinted at it too. This season he's having this year,
he's hitting a pretty high clip of his off the dribble threes. And yes,
I'm trying to will this season back into existence by talking about it in
the present tense for anyone who's taking an issue with that. He's he's shown
you, probably since his sophomore season, that he can handle the secondary playmaking
responsibility and what really impressed me about his case. And also while I was
watching it last year in the playoffs, it wasn't de'angelo Russell that was really
their most effective offensive player against the Sixers. It was Tarris Lavert. And
whether you want to attribute that to Ben Simmons spending so much time on de'angelo
Russell or whatever, that's fine, but he's still stepped up and he was
basically their lone source of consistent offensive production during that five game series. And
to show that type of shot making, that type of that type of talent
at that level, I think it's a pretty big deal. And so that's
why I had him obviously higher than you did. Yeah, I think you're
missing the most compelling argument for him over Chris Humphreys though, and that's just
that, to the best of our knowledge, he has not dated a Kardashian.
He's also better at basketball too, and I think that really helps as
well. Yeah. I don't know how to rebut that one. So who
is Well, we're up to number eight now, correct, that was eight,
It was number eight, Yeah, number seven before we get to number
seven. I also think it's intriguing that the fans had Kyrie Irving at number
nine, and he did not appear on either of ours, likely because he's
played twenty games for the Nets. Those twenty games have been fantastic. But
I was I was intrigued by that just because he actually got as high as
a third place. Vote was kind of all over the balloting and it seemed
like some people, maybe due to the complete lack of intriguing options at the
bottom of this order, wanted to give him some credit. Well, it
also kind of depends on how you look at this and if you're just trying
to rank the best Nets ever to put on a uniform, and he's probably
is he won at this point. So if people looked at it like that,
where it could be like a Kawhi Leonard situation in Toronto where people might
have him above Kyle Lowry, I guess that's clearly not the case there because
you said he received a third place for it. It's weird, how I
do think the name recognition is is what helps him. And look, he's
been he had what was the game didn't he dropped like fifty this season or
four? It was forty five point game against the Detroit Pistons. He's been
really good. The Nets have not been really good though when he's on the
court. I will say that's not solely his fault. Their offensive drop off
without him on the floor is incredibly steep there. They've put together a pretty
good defense without him this season, So there's that trade off there. I'm
not ready to go in the Nets are better off without Kyrie. And then
he did have the fifty point game. It was it was the it was
against the Timberwolves to open the season. So if he had played, this
is a better way to frame this. Let's say he had played, maybe
he made something like ten or fifteen games as opposed to most of the season
to this point. Would he have made your top ten list for the Nets.
I think so. I think he would have come in at either number
seven or eight, depending on the level at which he played and maybe what
happened in the playoffs. But I do think that there's a pretty clear top
seven here. Yeah, when you're looking at because I feel like you have
to factor in the length of tenure, that there is a pretty clear top
seven. And that's where the discussion gets more interesting, because the clear top
seven for me was not the clear top seven for you. That's true.
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online wagering experts. Who is at number seven for the composite bill Who is
at number seven is D'Angelo Russell. He was exactly number seven for me.
He was number five for the fans. And because your clear Top seven was
different than my Clear Top seven, he was number eight for you. So
that's the the center. I'll let you go. First year. Look,
he had one good season with the Nets, like one really good season last
year. I'm not saying that. I'm not going to harp on the fact
that he was an All Star by technicality, but before Carris Lavert's injury,
like he was Lavert was the guy that the Nets were clearly focusing on.
And there were points at the beginning of the season where Dangel Russell wasn't even
on the floor during crunch time. And I give him a lot of props
for navigating that rough patch and it never seemed like his attitude was a problem
during that time. And he had a hell of a year. I believe
when I did the NBA's top one hundred players this year, he fell inside
my top forty top forty five. And so that's a really good player.
And what you see him doing now while he was with the Warriors and during
the twelve games he spent with the Timberwolves, this is a really good NBA
player. But when you're looking at the time he spent in Brooklyn, where
there's only been one hundred and twenty nine games compared to the two hundred plus
that Carris Lavert has appeared in. I'm really wondering what the case is to
put him then Over Caris Lavert is because he had that one year where I
still think there might have been some confusion in this, but you could have
justified him as a top twenty five player potentially, I'm honestly asking here,
No, I think for me it was the ability to provide a sustained peak,
because, like you said, like it seemed like Caris Lavert was going
to be that guy until he got hurt. And the difference for me is
that de'angelo Russell seemed like he was going to be that guy and then didn't
get hurt. So I always had questions about the sustainability of the peak that
he reached in Brooklyn, just because it's hard to rely on those midrange jumpers,
especially as a guard who doesn't draw fouls. Ever, but he still
made those shots throughout the year. He still provided an incredible amount of offensive
value just by drawing tougher assignments from the defense every night and freeing things up
for teammates. I think it's easy to forget the average seven assists a game
during that twenty eighteen nineteen season in Brooklyn, like he was just a genuine
offensive force for all eighty one games that he played, which is not something
that we can say about Lavert to this point in his career. Wow,
throwing some shade in his availability. I get it. I just don't think
you want to put Dianzel Russell as high as eighth or if you even want
to put him high. I just don't. The case for me to make
for him over Lavert is just is really tough. I understand it. And
there's there is that element of the sustained peak and the fact that his peak
in any given season has been higher than Lavert's in any given season relative to
the rest of the NBA, looking specifically at their Brooklyn ten years. It's
just it's tough for me because his first year in Brooklyn wasn't really that impressive,
only played in forty eight games. It becomes tough for me. But
you know, seven eight, that's where we have them. We're splitting hairs
there. I guess we are. I mean, to me, like,
he's still in that tier above the Chris Humphries, Carris Lavert, Ronde Hart,
Pallas Jefferson. Guys to me, but Butt is not. I get
why. I get why you feel differently. I don't. I don't think
there's no necessarily a right or wrong answer here, just because it's valuing things
a little bit differently. I will say. So, you look at what
he did last year, and I believe he before this season, he,
James Harden, and Stephen Curry are now the only players in NBA history to
average at least twenty points, eight assists, and two made threes per per
thirty six minutes different arab and we know that guys weren't shooting a ton of
three beforehand, but that I felt like that was an interesting thing to track.
I think that makes the case for him in that top seven, I
was trying to talk myself into it. I'm still not there, but I
was trying to talk myself into it. Well. Fortunately in the top six
we have all the same players, just in slightly different orders. So at
least we can agree there's a clear top six. There's a consensus top six.
None of these not from the fans, though, oh well, than
never mind, who did the fans have it? Number seven? Did we
go over that? Not yet? Because none Number seven and number eight on
the fans haven't yet appeared because D'Angelo Russell was number five and Caris Lavert was
number six. The consensus number six is Jared Allen, who I had at
number six, you had at number five, and the fans had at number
eight, which I was surprised by. Maybe it's just that he hasn't quite
been able to take that that proverbial next step during what was supposed to be
an even more successful season this year, especially with the injuries that have kept
Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving off the floor for so much like the fact that
he hasn't clearly taken the lead in the rotation over DeAndre Jordan. Maybe that's
what held him back here, But I've blamed the coaching staff for that,
not him. It's absolutely the coaching staffs fall and that mostly applies to even
Kenny Kenny Atkinson, who I was an advocate of. But there was clearly
some backdoor politics going on there because Jared Allen's minutes should not be on the
decline from his sophomore campaign, and so that's that's where I think evaluating him
gets iffy, too, is because there can only be so much projection here
since we're almost the decades, almost technically out and whether or not you believe
there will be basketball again in the year twenty, that's a factor in.
But he's he's really good. He's more mobile on the defensive end. I
think people give him credit for his you it is just this regular rim protector.
His achilles heel is probably going up against stronger bigs, and yes,
that's a problem. But the fact that he can really move in space,
I think that helps his defensive value. And then he's he's a solid rim
runner. We kind of thought maybe at the end of his sophomore campaign that
there might be more to his three point shot. That's not something that the
Nets have explored since then. It's it's fair. I wonder if this is
what hold him holds him back though. Is people wondering about his trajectory now,
because there's this DeAndre Jordan stuff going on and DJ was immediately inserted into
the starting lineup after Kenny Atkinson left the team, and maybe that impacts perception
of it. There's definitely an element of, oh, this this feels like
a lateral year for him, even though some of his counting stats are a
little bit better, but his his free throw percentage dropped, he's shooting a
higher percentage on his twos. There's just a lot of mixed signals there.
I still think that he when you're looking specifically at his position and center might
be the only position that kind of matters now, because it feels like you
can that's like the only spot you look at players and say, oh,
they're a center. I don't even really do that with points as much anymore.
Regardless if you're looking at more traditional or pure fives, whatever you want
to call him, I don't think he's someone who could very clearly wind up
being top fifteen or better at his own own position, and the body of
work that he's shown in Brooklyn, aside from if you're going to play in
two hundred plus games for this team over this decade, you're kind of automatically
in contention unless you're absolutely terrible. I just think, you know, he
was kind of that first blue chip prospect that they thought they had. I
know, there's Carris Lavert there too, but because of the injuries, he
wasn't as much of a known quantity, and I think he was sort of
the first blue chip prospect or that what if guy to him not of what
if, but that you know, high level young player to emerge out of
the the the error that they're in now or or the error that they were
working their way out of when they first got Kenny Atkinson. And I think
that means ultimately means a lot. Yeah. I think the fact that you
labeled him a blue chip prospect, which is legitimate. I mean, he
absolutely was coming out of Texas, even though he went twenty second in the
draft. I think that the lateral growth, the failure to completely reach expectations
is kind of what holds perception of him back a little bit here. I
mean, I remember he was supposed to be kind of a three point shooting
center out of Texas. He hadn't done it with the Longhorns. It seemed
like he had the stroke, he had the ability to grow into that,
and that was one of the things that made him so intriguing as this seven
footer or with the Afro guy who who could potentially be a legitimate floor spacer,
but I still don't know how can play and don't just love how he
plays. The fearlessness on defense is what stands out for me most because it
seems like he's one of those guys who is completely willing to go up and
challenge dunk attempts from anyone. And because of that, we've seen like some
pretty like standout blocks of guys like Lebron James and I guess because he's created
those kind of fearless highlights. That was that was the biggest reason. I
was surprised that he didn't get even more love from those voting. He's definitely
first team all doesn't give a fuck about getting posterized. Yeah, he's right,
Which is a great team to have. That's that should be a separate
podcast. That and the follow into Helen back team need to do those who
did and so who did the fans then have at number six? The fans
have cares l at number six. I like them, probably should have put
him higher. No, Matthew who And we're on to number five now?
Correct? Now we're on to number five now, So number five, the
consensus had Joe Harris, who checked in at number seven from the fans.
He was number five for me and he was number four for you. So
you want to kick it off here as the biggest Joe Harris homer in the
building. Yeah, why not? Joe Parris is good this is you want.
He's just universally translatable type of talent where his shooting is going to plug
in and work anywhere, can really move off the ball. You can count
him to knock down those threes that a consistently high clip. What I do
think remains underrated about his game is that he can put the ball on the
floor and he'll attack open spaces from the three point line. He'll at least
keep the possession moving. He's not someone that's going to burn through the shot
clock trying to tide whether he needs to make that second pass or put the
ball on the floor. And then that sort of quick decision making does translate
into some nice playmaking from time to time, and then he's not I wouldn't
call him a good or above average defender, but I do think he stands
up against small forwards like traditional wings more so than people realize. He's a
little bit stronger than he might look or people give him credit for. And
I'm not saying that he's a huge part of why the Nets defense has consistently
or consistently overachieved past tense during the Kenny Atkinson days, but he was certainly
someone to have that specialist where there's so often this defensive tradeoff where if we
want his three point shooting and his offense, you know, we might have
to really take it in our teeth at the other end, He's never been
that type of specialists, and I would still fall short of calling him a
three and D guy. But the fact that he doesn't get absolutely torpedoed in
a lot of his matchups, and the fact that Brooklyn can at least have
some confidence of putting him at the three rather than viewing him as one of
those one position shooting guards that goes a long way. And he's sort of
I know, Spencer Dinwood. He gets a lot of credit for this,
and and he deserves it, But he and Joe Harris are sort of like
the guys that came out of obscurity through this whole NETS process, Like those
are the two names that are going to be most associated with the work that
Brooklyn did during its darkest days. I want to go on a slight tangent
because I know that this is supposed to be themed about the Brooklyn Nets,
But how in the world did the Cleveland Cavaliers not at least give this guy
a chance? Like all they wanted to do was put shooters around Lebron James
while he was still there. But they didn't give him any run whatsoever.
Fifty one games, nine point seven minutes per game as a rookie, only
five appearances as a sophomore, while they kept giving big minutes to him on
Schumpert Like he was a twenty four year old during that sophomore season. We
knew that he could shoot from his time at Virginia. We knew that he
could shoot, I'm assuming from his time in practices in training camp and stuff.
But like, I don't get it how he could not get any opportunities
in that system. There is this there does seem to be a stigma against
inexperienced players for Lebron's teams. That's I don't want to put that on Lebron,
but when you have such an urgency to win, then there's not really
the bandwidth for the type of experimentation. It's true, and they were giving
big minutes to Moe Williams and Richard Jefferson deep in their thirties. Like there's
definitely a preference for that. But still, like if the most coveted asset
around Lebron is shooters. Whoops, missed opportunity here, right? Yeah.
For look, he's gonna be looking at twenty twenty free agency whenever it happens.
Is it gonna be? Are we gonna have two twenty twenty one free
agencies at this point? I don't. I don't really know, but he's
probably gonna be a guy that the Lakers won't want to target with their non
taxpayers mid level exception. Think about his fit on that team now? So
maybe he never Who do we have long pause after after him? Or was
there any discrepancies here? Because I had him at four, you had him
at five, the fans had him at five, correct, and that's seven.
Yeah, that's why he felt a little bit. But yeah, so
we'll go from one Joe to another. We had Joe Johnson checking in at
number four. He was number three for both me and the fans, and
he was down at number six for you. It's he's another guy who's who
was kind of tough to place for me just because only three and a half
seasons. But he wasn't All Star during one of those seasons. He spent
more time than someone like D'Angelo Russell playing and playing at a fairly high level.
He definitely wasn't peaked Joe Johnson with these teams. He was, he
was in his thirties. He wasn't taking over games on offense quite as much,
but he was still like that, that valuable wing who could guard multiple
positions, who could get a from scratch bucket down the stretch. He shot
forty point one percent on five point one three point attempts per game during the
twenty thirteen fourteen season, Like there was there was a lot to like here.
Is it possible to have underrated Joe Johnson here and overrated him for the
one with the Hawks? Because that might be the area that I'm in now.
You mentioned he was only there for three and a half seasons. That's
enough for the second most minutes of any Brooklyn Net played during this time,
and second in games played too. Yeah, there's Look, there's the theirness.
That's what we talk about all the time. Now, I just wasn't,
like you said, he wasn't even close to prime Joe Johnson with the
Nets. And maybe I'm still sort of, you know, tainted by the
fact that they acquired him to keep Darren Williams there. I don't know what
it is, but just knowing what he was in Atlanta to what he then
became in Brooklyn. I just don't associate him with that window of Brooklyn Nets
basketball as much as I feel like I should. I'd be more inclined to
look at Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce, even though both of them were there
for less time, And of course i'd be more inclined to talk about d
Will as well. So that's where it really falls from me. And had
he been maybe it was just a matter of the pecking learter becoming two crowded
shortly after he got there, and so that really cut into his production.
He did have some you know, he had that game I think it was
against the Bulls in the playoffs where he came through for them, and always
just sort of reliable in these in some of these playoffs situations twenty thirteen,
twenty fourteen, there's a case to be made that during that twelve game playoff
push, he was the Nets' best or second best player on that team,
and so there's definitely a case to have him hired. I find myself feeling
like I put him too low, but that was more so the product of
I really wanted to make sure that I recognized how important I think Alan Joe
Harris are to the Nets franchise during the window that we're looking at. Yeah,
and I can't really begrudge you for that. I wonder if it's also
like a case of expectations and the failure to reach them, not necessarily on
Joe's part, but just the Nets as a whole, where you know,
they acquired Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce before that twenty thirteen fourteen season, and
they were supposed to be the next super team. We saw the Sports Illustrated
cover Jason Kidd, who still had some some love for his coaching potential.
I guess was in charge, and they only won forty four games and Eastern
Conference semifinals exit. The next season, they only won thirty eight games.
They were eliminated in the first round, and I think the complete and utter
failure to live up to those lofty expectations kind of diminished the stock of everyone
who was involved, especially the guys who were viewed more as terhi or pieces.
No, I'm definitely with you there. Do you remember how excited people
were there in twenty sixteen when the Nets waved him and he signed with the
Heat and thought that he was going to be like some sort of swing piece
for them. I love when we get like because I totally forgot that he.
I totally forgot he played for the Heat until looking it up. I
just remember those were one of the earlier transactions with regards to Twitter's reaction where
it was like, we might just be getting too excited about the name power
and it still happens. But everyone was like, Oh, he's gonna be
perfect for Miami, Like this is someone that's really just gonna help them,
He's gonna be that swing piece for them. And he ends up spending and
what it was like twenty four games there and he was I mean, he
actually was fine. He averaged fifteen points there and shot better than forty percent
from three. But I just remember how excited NBA Twitter was about the Joe
Johnson Heat heat fit. That's just something that comes to mind. Can I
give you a quick trivia challenge as long as you get a click away from
any Joe Johnson information you currently have up, his basketball reference page is now
close. Can you name the seven teams he's played for? Oh? Fuck,
let's see. We have the Hawks, the Jazz, the heat the
nets. Was he on the rockets for a minute? He was on the
rockets for a minute, tally technically for five hundred and five minutes. All
right, what am I at five of seven? It's five of seven?
You are actually missing the Pistons two teams of his career. He has not
played for the Pistons. That's when they signed him. Why am I missing
the first part of Joe Johnson's career? Oh? Phoenix, duh, that's
a duh? But who drafted him? Where did he start his career?
I got nothing there. I started in Boston. He was traded midway through
his rookie season. Does that ever happen to you though? Where you missed
the obvious one? Phoenix was obvious, Boston, I feel like was not
so obvious, But me missing Phoenix that would have been demonstratively terrible. Yeah.
I think I forget sometimes when like those these guys who become something or
traded midway through their rookie year, like Johnson is a great older example,
where he started with Cleveland and was traded to Phoenix midway through his year just
because he didn't work with Mark Price, And like, I totally forget about
that well, Joe Johnson played for the Suns. I will not forget that.
Now you're gonna take us to our next number? Are we gonna keep
going with these awkward pauses? I like the awkward pauses as we just kind
of like revel in your inability to get all seven teams? Would you've gotten
all seven? I would have gotten the early ones I knew. I knew
he started in Boston and then went to Phoenix. I don't know, Like
I said, I forgot that he played with the Heat. I think that
I think I would have gotten six and missed that one. I got six
in miss Boston. What do you want from me? Just because I named
Phoenix last? Yeah, But I posed the challenge so I didn't have to
answer it, which was great work on my part. So Joe Johnson was
in the composite. Number four, who was number three. Number three in
the composite is Spencer Dinwoodie, who was number three for you was number for
both me and the fans. And he was another tough one to place because
all of them are for this franchise when very few people have played more than
two hundred games. The two were easy. The top two were easy.
The top two were definitely easy. But yeah, what he's doing this year,
what he did at the end of last year, what he did in
the playoffs last year, is not what he's done throughout his time in Brooklyn,
which I think is why I had him a little bit lower than you,
just because he didn't he only shot thirty eight point seven percent from the
field as a sophomore. He only played twenty two point six minutes per game
as a rookie, or not as a rookie, and not as a sophomore
a rookie and sophomore with Brooklyn because he played for Detroit at the beginning of
his career. But yeah, I just I struggled with how we weigh what
he's done this year during the abbreviated season. He definitely is a guy that
I associate with shooting so much better from three point reigns than he actually does
when you look at his percentages, and I could see they're sort of being
this struggle where people were talking about him as an All Star fringe All Star.
It does feel like that ceiling is sort of overambitious, But look,
averaging over twenty points per game in the NBA, like he's doing this season's
that's not easy, and he can really command an offense, someone to get
someone you have who you can count on to attack in the half court and
crunch times. He's a pretty good pastor. It's finishing m around the rim
is improved over the past two seasons. It does feel like there are a
lot of times maybe he complains a little bit too much about the I shouldn't
say the lack of but the absence of a whistle in certain instances. But
he's brought his free throw temph rate off a bunch over the past two seasons
as well, at least relative to his first two years. His first season
in Brooklyn, excuse me, where it really fell off a cliff. He's
the closest thing I feel like they've had to just a steadying presence throughout this
decade. Brook Lopez is certainly there. It's just maybe the timing of when
he actually left, and then some of the injuries he dealt with early on,
perhaps that takes it away. But he's certainly right there. Dinwood.
He has been consistently good for them, and it ends up being just this
hell of a fine. Like I said when I was talking about Joe Johnson,
just a hugely valuable product to come out of what was supposed to be
this barren uh, this barren time where they didn't really have traff picks,
didn't have trade assets, and to be able to do on Earth players or
take chances on players like like Dinwoody and give him the freedom to fail for
stretches, and I think it's I think it's been huge for the Nets for
his career as well, and just someone probably does give you some limitations defensively.
I don't think he translates to the two and three spots as well as
he probably should. And then, as you've mentioned before, defending point guards
is just hell on Earth for everybody, no matter how good you are.
But all he can do on offense, I don't know if you want him
being your your league guard, starting every single game and then heading playoffs.
But I would say that if he came off the bench for an entire year,
he's probably sixth man of a year and that's that's not his ceiling,
but I'm saying he's that he's that quintessential sixth man of the of the year
guy, and I think that's right. That's huge. Yeah, And he's
under contract for two more seasons with Brooklyn at a reasonable price. He strikes
me as the kind of guy who would want to stay in place on another
longer deal. Maybe that's just a gut feeling, but I don't know that
I would be surprised if a decade from now we were looking back and he'd
passed both of our top two. I think last year we we saw the
ceiling that he could hit, but it was brief. This year we've seen
that he can string together those kind of offensive offensive performances night in and night
out, even with a three point shot that kind of flucally hasn't been finding
home quite as much. I think as that progresses to a more reasonable career,
mean we're going to see him get slightly better on the offensive end,
and as he becomes more accustomed to carrying such a heavy load on offense,
we could see some level of defensive growth as well, like we see from
so many guards who are unaccustomed to taking on those burdens. So for me,
like he was tough to place between the three, four, five,
and six spots for me, but I think of all of those guys like
he's the one I can see with the most helium like I wouldn't be surprised
if he ascends to those number one or two spots down the road. It's
interesting to think about that. There's just and look on offense, There's just
this smoothness to his offensive game, and I think that's why you trust,
even when he's pulling up off the dribble, that his three pointers are going
to go down even though statistically they've been well below the league average over the
past right for seasons. I think he and jim Al Murray are my primary
examples of that, where it's just like guys who play with either smoothness or
confidence to the degree that you can't help but trust it. That's a good
way to put it. Number two who we got number two unanimously across the
board. We have Darren Williams, who was not Utah Jazz Darren Williams when
he came to Brooklyn. I think they wanted him to be Utah Jazz Darren
Williams. They paid him like he was Utah Jazz Darren Williams. He wasn't,
but he was still good for how much of an issue that was To
get to basically ensure that he'd stay, they traded for Joe Johnson. Didn't
they trade for Jarald Wallace as well? Ye before that they want to such
great lengths to maximize his window, and that definitely backfired. Yeah, I
mean the first the first full season, he struggled a lot when he first
came to New Jersey. He slashed thirty four nine, twenty seven one seventy
nine three during that first twelve game stint, But his first full season with
the Nets was pretty solid. He didn't shoot as efficiently as he did with
the Jazz. His knees were already starting to give way a little bit.
But man, that crossover was so devastating, and the physicality with which he
played like he knowed, he knew how to leverage, he knowed He's throwing
off my grasp of English, just remembering that crossover and just like how well
he could use that frame, you know, six two sixty three, two
hundred pounds. But it seemed like he played a little heavier than that,
and not necessarily in a bad way during the beginning of that that Nets portion.
You know, guys, guys who could get past their defender and seal
him off and create in the lane like he was. He was really good
at the beginning, but then I think the injuries and the advancing age kind
of sapped more from him than we've seen from other players. Yeah, for
sure. And I don't know if he was maybe miscast as alpha on a
team, but I don't think he was. It was just a little late.
Yeah, I mean, there was the conversation when he was in Utah.
There was there was a Chris Paul versus Williams debate like that was legitimate
for like ten days. But it was a conversation that people could actually have.
I think Chris Paul always came out on top pretty clearly, but it
was a conversation that people actually had and you wouldn't laugh at. I just
remember how much it seemed like Paul Pierson Kevin Garnett hated him after their time
with the Nets was over, And so that makes you questions a lot of
different things. But yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, with his
knees, and then his efficiency really fell off a cliff once he got right,
once he got to Brooklyn. He had like the like sort of a
rebound season in thirteen fourteen where he started hitting more of his two pointers again,
but it was basically and look, his two Pointers never hit rock bottom,
but the next season twenty fourteen twenty fifteen shoots thirty nine point five percent
from inside the arc. It was just it was a swift decline for him,
uh the and the package they gave up for him. I don't know
how much it hurts in retrospect, but that it seemed like when they got
him, it seems like a reaction to the Knicks got Carmelo Anthony. We
need to do this, and I think that's totally fair. So they end
up giving up what became Derek Favors, Devin Harris cash and the Ennis Canner
draft pick and the Gorgy Yank draft pick. A lot of Biggs involved in
that trade when looking in hindsight, So I still will associate Williams more with
the Jazz than I will with the Nets. And I don't know that he
ever would have came in contention with Brook Lopez for the number one spot spoilers,
but I do feel like that's a big reason why I don't even feel
great about putting him at number two. Where why I'd be willing to listen
to arguments at this point maybe for Spencer Dinwoodie, if not now then probably
by next season. Yeah, I think the biggest thing that held him back
was just an inability to accept how his game was changing. It's easy to
forget just how good a facilitator he was with Utah, and I think he
forgot that in Brooklyn, where we should have seen his field goal attempt to
rate to climb as he stopped gaining as much separation from defenders. He should
have tried to leverage that passing vision even more, but he didn't, and
I think just playing the wrong way. We see see guy's age gracefully,
Vince Carter maybe as the primary example of a guy who successfully made the transition
from bona fide superstar to good, impactful, valuable role player, and then
we see guys like Darren Williams who just seemed unable to accept what was changing
and it held him back. No, I think that makes perfect sense for
him. And yeah, I mean he was I don't know if you would
say he was the craftiest pastor, but he had like a ton of games
where he just dished out so many assists. I think he has five twenty
assists games and his career twenty or morriss games for his career, which is
just absolutely Bonkers, he has six. I just looked it up. They
had six on six different occasions between two thousand and seven twenty twelve. He
died out twenty or more. I remember the twenty assists game with New Jersey,
but he had had four different seasons, two in Utah where he had
over twenty DESI press he was good. Once upon a time, he was
all right number one. I don't think we need much of a drum roll
because it's across the board brook Lopez, which is like, like a minute
here, he did get a vote as we're going to go over in the
honorable mentions, But yeah, I mean, was there any was there any
doubt that brook Lopez was going to be number one? Not only was he
a good consistent source of offensive production for them. Maybe not the defender he's
become with the Milwaukee Bucks, but you know, he played one hundred ten
more games than anybody else. He logged twelve thousand, five hundred and ninety
minutes. Seconds was Joe Johnson at nine thousand, nine hundred forty two.
Like, even if we take out the fact that Brolo was actually good at
basketball, like the vereness factor alone makes him a legitimate contender for number one,
and I think everyone recognized that. I really give him credit for this
didn't make his entire case for me. But that season, the final season
he spent in Brooklyn, I believe it was Kenny Atkinson's first year twenty sixteen
twenty seven team, and I was around that team a lot, and for
someone who had been through so many different iterations of the nets, he was,
though, always in good spirits and the way he was asked to change
his game was not something that he ever publicly or seemingly privately pushed back against.
He took a bunch more three pointers and he hit them at a respectable
clip. That's when he really became a better passer was that year, though
that kind of started in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen as well. So I just
respect during those times where Brooklyn was just undergoing so much change and knowing how
much how many different versions of the team he'd already lived through, and knowing
what his bread and butter was when you look at post ups, for him
to change or adapt so starkly, That's something I'll always remember, and I
think it rings truer now because of what he's been able to do since since
joining the Bucks. People sort of wrote him off when he spent that let's
call it a gap year with the Lakers. He's still really good, and
like you said, I don't think he was quite the defender he is now.
A lot of that might just have to do with the personnel around him
too. His roles a little bit different, and then also the personnel around
him is obviously a ton different and the game is played differently than it was.
And let's say twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, but he was always a
guy that was dependable as a shot blockler. I think now we're seeing that
he was never just this terrible rebounder. That he added value as a guy
who could really box out. And even in Brooklyn during the season he spent
with Kenny Atkins and that was a big focus, where let's box out and
make sure our guards can get the ball and then get out in transition.
And so he's always provided value there too. And just to underscore how stark
that difference was. During his first eight seasons, he took thirty one three
pointers total, not per season, but total he made three of them.
That is nine point seven person. I'm not missing a digit like Marcus Smart
in the clutch, even though you think that no way to interrupt my point
with just a knife. Anyway, during that twenty sixteen seventeen season, you
ref he took three hundred and eighty seven and made one thirty four, which
is thirty four point six percent, And that was a huge jump. And
I do think that that even if even if part of it was by design
and there was more of a boxing space for the guards, Like, imagine
how good he would have been if he wasn't like one of the worst seven
foot rebounders we've seen because he was like maybe he was boxing out, maybe
he was better than like the raw numbers show, but like he was still
one of the worst high volume seven foot rebounders we've seen statistically, and there
are other ways to know it's true, and we see I mean like Steve
Steven Adams, right, like his rebounding totals were lower because he cleared space
for Russell Westbrook for so much time, right, and like to some extent,
like brook Lopez was doing that in Brooklyn, but but not not to
that extent. Now that you're done shitting all over Brolow, can you get
to the I would have gone to call them honorable mentions. Names who were
in contentions a corner to the fan vote. Yeah, I don't know what
to call him, because it gets it gets pretty bad pretty quickly. But
players who are outside of the top ten in the fan vote but did show
up on ballots. We have Jeremy Lynn and Chris Humphries tied at number eleven.
We have Paul Pierce at thirteen. We have Kevin Garnett and Ronde Hollis
Jefferson tied at fourteen. We have Devin Harris and Demari Carroll tied at sixteen,
Mason Plumly alone in eighteenth, Reggie Evans, Keith Bogans, and Thaddeus
Young tied at nineteenth, Gerald Wallace alone at twenty second, and then a
big tie of guys who showed up on one ballot in the tenth spot,
so tied at twenty third. We have Andre Blatch, DeAndre Jordan, Sean
Kilpatrick, Jason Terry, and my personal favorite, Kevin Durant, who has
not played a game for Brooklyn yet. Right, that's so tough that both
he and Kyrie would have made the list, at least for me, had
they played. Let's say I'm like half the season or more. But I
don't know how you put unless you're just saying who's the best player ever?
Leadership? Yeah, maybe he's DeAndre Jordan's favorite Net ever because that would make
sense. Yeah, I mean maybe so. I guess this theory doesn't quite
work because DeAndre Jordan and Kevin Durant both only got one tenth place vote.
But maybe, like you view the fact that DeAndre Jordan is on the team
as a credit to Kevin Durant and then you want to give him some love.
I don't know. I'm trying to justify it a million different ways in
my head, but I'm failing with all of them. Well, I mean,
if you did this off the top of your head instead of researching it,
maybe you just can't think of ten names. And I've been trying to
be me, but you're if you're not a NETS fan, maybe you just
can't think of ten names off the top of your head to put to put
in there. I guess. But like, I've also seen some of the
ballots where in the eighth, ninth, and tenth spots people are just like
don't care or no one because we're requiring answers to all ten and people are
finding ways around that, which is valid, which is totally fair. But
yeah, Kevin Durant got a vote. I am surprised Allen Anderson didn't get
a vote. Thirteenth and minutes played over the past ten years for the Nets,
that's pretty damn high. Here's a Telovitch was eleven in games played.
I think it didn't get any love. I'm not gonna lie. I thought
about putting him tenth, thought about it cursory, but I wasn't gonna leave
off. Yeah. I couldn't leave off Ronde Hollis Jefferson for him. I
might have considered if it was between Chris Humphreys and him, we might have
had had a conversation. This has been the Brooklyn Nets all decade rankings though,
hope you enjoyed them again. Follow Adam on Twitter at from all zero
nine. Please remember rate review and subscribe to this tune with the Charlotte Hornets
one, we promised for less awkward transitions from player to player. That might
have been This might have been the worst podcast that we did. With that,
I take ownership of it as the person in charge of seguing until next
time, though I leave everybody with the shout out too. You know what
Alan Anderson thirteenth and game played for the metso in the best decade, Shout
out to you, Alan Anderson, Sugar Ray, Leonard, Roberto Duran,
Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns. Legends whose four way rivalry define
one of the greatest errors in boxing history, relive their decade of dominance in
the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four part series premiering Sunday,
June sixth, only on Showtime