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We're back with another edition of the
Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Trishinsky,

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culture editor here at the Federalist.
As always, you can follow the show

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at radio. You can email the
show at radio at the Federalist dot com,

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follow us on exit fdr LST.
Make sure to subscribe wherever you download

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your podcasts into the premium ad free
version of our website if you want to

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support our workover at the Federalist dot
com as well. I'm joined today by

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my colleague Sam mangled Lennett. He's
a staff editor with us at The Federalist.

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Sam, thanks for coming back on. Happy to be here. How's

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it going? Longtime? No see, it's good. We just put our

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coats on here at the office because
despite both being from the Midwest, it's

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freezing. I blame Jeremy. Jeremy
is our other co worker. He is

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the light of my life. And
since he left the office, go back

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to Texas. Sorry for the docks. It's been cool ever since. Is

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that where he went? Earlier today? He took the heat with him,

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took the heat, well, maybe
for you. So we did a movie's

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podcasts in which I think one of
the at least one of My takeaways is

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I was reflecting on everything that came
out in the last year, is that

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sort of the mid range that had
been that has been really bloated because of

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the explosion and streaming and all the
money that came with it, all the

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big investments that came with it.
We're now seeing streamer prices rise, and

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I think what that's led is to
some leaner content, meaning you know,

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it's they're cracking down on all of
the really sort of filler, mid budget

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nonsense that's gone out and tightening it
up, making some of that content better

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as I look back. But I
actually really think that's true of TV as

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well. I think TV is really
where that explosion. There was an explosion

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in movies too, but this descripted
TV explosion was and still is completely out

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of control. I mean, there's
so there's really numerically so much more TV

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than there used to be, and
we can talk about monoculture and all of

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that, but man, when I
went back to look at the list of

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TV shows that came out in the
last year, and this is not just

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movies that we've watched in the last
year. It's only movies that have come

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out in the last year. TV
shows that have come out in the last

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year, it's overwhelming, just the
sheer volume, and it's been like that

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for years. I also think this
might be the year where it started to

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get better, where that content really
started to show that studios and distributors are

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re emphasizing quality because they're seeing too
many dips and subscriptions. And when you're

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raising subscription price, it can't be
all about volume. You have to give

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something. People need to be happy
with what they're watching. And for a

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couple of years there and I actually
think this is still true. With Netflix

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in particular, the odds that this
hyped new show with a star in it

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was actually going to suck were so
high. Yeah, I remember that Paul

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Rudd show on Netflix that they they
marketed that show so hard I forget what

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it was called. He's sort of
becomes a it's a sci fi thing.

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As much as like Paul Rudd as
a concept, I'm just kind of assume

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eighty percent of the things he's going
to be in our kind of garbage.

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Well, that's an example of a
lot of similar shows that came out on

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that right, And man, I
just feel like those are declining. And

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that's great. Yeah. So,
for example, one show I thought that

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did a really good job this year
with bupkiss on Peacock, with Pete Davidson

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again five years ago whatever, I
think that show would have fallen prey to

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the sort of fill are thin,
get it out fast at all costs type

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of model. It was scripted comedy, a scripted autobiographical comedy, basically Pete

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Davidson playing Pete Davidson, and really
had a lot of last and a lot

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of heart. Wasn't perfect, but
just an example I think of how much

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better things are getting in Another example
I think would be platonic. What is

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with certain interject What is with these
memoir esque series and movies like Pete Davidson.

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That's the second one he's done.
There was a King of Staten Island

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as well. He's not that interesting
of a guy to have two visual medium

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memoirs. How narcissistic are you?
No, he's not that interesting at all.

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In fact, he's actually I think
maybe one of the things that makes

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both of these shows interesting is that
he's so typical King of Staten Island and

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it's obviously grappling a lot with millennial
mailhood and sort of arrested development that comes

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with that. Look, look,
look, I wanted to dislike the spinn

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I are kind of selling me on
it. I think you would like Buffos.

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Actually, I know you would like
it. Again, it's it's Pete

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Davidson, and he's not always on, there's no question about that, but

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yeah, he's It does sort of
go back to the origins of a lot

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of his pain and Nine to eleven
and his dad, and there's something about

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that, you know, in the
New York area, that in Ladder Burrows

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that is just so typical and having
that, you know, Euphoria starts with

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the main character being born. Literally
she's in the hospital and her parents are

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watching the footage of nine to eleven
and that's about gen Z. But Pete

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Davidson is a millennial and he has
this direct you know, it's not it's

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not that it was playing on the
hospital, it's that it was his father,

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whom he knew and loved. He
knew and loved, and the way

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that that sort of has shaped his
life. I think, you know,

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he lost his father traumatically. A
lot of millennials just didn't have dads.

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Yeah, so anyway, there's something
interesting about the show, and it's not

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trying to be a comedy that the
drama is secondary too. And it's not

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trying to be a drama that the
comedy is secondary too. I think it

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balances out pretty well. It sounds
kind of like shoot Master of None,

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he's on sorry series from back in
the day. Yes, although Master of

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None is a really good example of
what I was just talking about. Shows

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that, like you can tell,
these streamers put a whole lot of money

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in it, and they may have
instead of even just cranking them out,

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they in some cases I think,
gave high profile artists way too much space

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to indulge themselves. And Master of
None was wildly indulgent and lacking self awareness

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to the point where it became a
diary essentially. It was not interesting.

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It totally lost. I don't know. Did you watch the full series?

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Uh? Yeah, I thought the
first half effectively was quite good. Yeah.

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Then it's just well I need more
content. Here's what I'm thinking about,

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here's what I do. Yeah,
here's what if I lived in Italy?

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Yeah right, like great indulgent and
what if we did it in black

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and white? Yeah right? Yes, yeah, I would say about this

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is like that, But it's also
sort of like Crashing. Yeah, and

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Crashing I think is probably one of
the better shows that's come out in the

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last decade. Their Crashing is quite
good. I haven't kept up with it.

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I don't even know if it's still
on. No, I don't think

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it is. Okay, it's very
very funny, very endearing. Okay,

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so we did. Oh, Platonic
is where I was going to go next.

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Man, was I expecting that show
to be bad? Because again,

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I've watched a lot of these,
especially on Apple TV, they do these

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very glossy, high budget and a
high profile, uh sort of star anchor

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type shows. So I was expecting
Platonic with Seth Rogen and Rose Byrne to

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be I'm thinking of Severance with Adam
Sky. I think they came out this

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year. Maybe it came out last
year. I want to say twenty twenty

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two because I was still in Ohio. Yeah, it probably came out the

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year before. Just an example of
a show with an interesting concept, lots

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of money, lots of talent.
From my perspective, was you know,

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eighty percent more boring than it should
have been. Is not to say it

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was a horrible show. I just
thought it was really boring for how much

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talent and money had been thrown at
it. Did you ever see Westworld?

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No, I'm not a big sci
fi person. Okay, there's I think

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there's a lot of I mean,
the West World is the first season was

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some of the best TV I've ever
seen, but there's a lot of the

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Severance. The first season reminds me
kind of of that in a sense where

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it's just it's a slow burn,
but the West World slow burn had far

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had a far greater payoff than Severances
did. Crime. Another one that came

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out this year that sort of similar
to Severance was Shrinking. This is another

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Apple TV. Did you watch this? It was with Harrison Ford. It's

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like, like, why can't they
just he's what ninety? Let him go

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to bed, he's tired, nineties, he's at least in his late eighties.

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Really, yeah, Harrison Ford,
I'm looking it up because there was

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You seem very confident about that.
I am very confident because I remember someone

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telling me this and if there's no
way because he and what's her name,

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Princess Leah were a thing and oh
yeah, there was a weird age gap,

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like that's right. Kerry Fisher Yeah, it's who had like a constrained

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amount of drugs in her system when
she died. But that's besides the point,

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not to speaking all the dead.
But he's he's definitely in his late

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eighties, if not his nineties.
I see. Shrinking, by the way,

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was written by Jason Siegil, who
also stars in it. He did

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a lot of the writing Bill Lawrence
from Scrubs, a lot of the writing.

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I did not think it was he's
eighty one, He's not in his

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lady, Okay, I was closed, I was close rounding up. I

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just I gave up on it after
a few episodes, to be honest,

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which is the same thing that the
severance. I always give something more than

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three episodes. I think that's fair, especially when you now have like eight

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episode seasons as opposed to you know, in some time. Yeah, exactly,

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But again, a show that just
really fell flat. And it's visually

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beautiful. All of the shows Apple
does are visually stunning, and that is

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to their credit. But when you're
throwing a lot of money and talent at

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a show and it's like eighty percent, like I said, it just it

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doesn't pack the punch that I thought
it should. Have, And that's an

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example I think of the glut that
still exists. That's an example that,

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you know, some stuff that some
fat I think is going to get trimmed.

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Shows like that I think are really
going to get trimmed in the years

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ahead. But Platonic if you need
a holiday binge, not for kids,

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but if if you need a holiday
binge and you have not watched that show

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yet, It's hilarious, a very
easy watch. I had to pause from

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not like consuming all of it at
once. That's that good. Interesting,

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it was very funny. But Rose
Byrne is the highlight of the show.

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Apple TV, Apple TV. Right, I'll check it out. Let's see

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what else do we have on this
list? So much? But I stopped

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actually on the TV list, just
like, did you watch poker Face with

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natash Leone? No? But I
like the song by Lady Gaga. You

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do, Yes, Really, I'm
a man. I contain multitudes. I

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have taste in Madam inside you there
are two wolves. That's well said another

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show. So now that we're my
movie theory was that a lot of the

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fat was getting trimmed, and I
think we're seeing that process play out in

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the TV space as well, for
example, with with pup GISs and with

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Platonic poker Face did not do it
for me. Uh, clearly spent a

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lot of money on it. Visually
stunning. It really feels like an NBC

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show, which is interesting. You
know what dogument like sitcom esque multi sitcom.

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Yeah, but there's just something,
yes, but there's something that is

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It's totally indescribable, not for being
you know, any better or worse than

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anything. I've always had an affinity
for NBC because it's what my parents watched

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for news, and you know,
when you used to watch nightly news,

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you would leave it on and the
sitcoms would come on after. So it

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has like this awkward like I let
me just say, I think NBC's esthetic

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has always been better than every other
network and I think that has gone across

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the board on everything that they've produced, from news to sitcoms. And part

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of that, for me is probably
nostalgia. And I probably would have a

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really hard time evaluating that objectively,
but that has always been my take.

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Interesting. Yeah, I don't really
have a dog in that fight. You

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didn't watch one network growing up over
the others? I mean cartoon network all

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day? No, not that I
felt like, that's besides the Actually,

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do you remember when Nickelodeon had Nick
News, they would do what was her

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name, I don't remember her name, but she sucked. She was the

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worst. I remember. I remember, like Obama just just got elected and

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there was this whole like grand sweeping, just bootlicking special on them, and

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it was so grating. I think
that radicalized me. You were watching Nickelodeon

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when Obama was elected. Yeah,
I'm not that old. I thought you

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were closer to my age comparable or
I'm just mentally stunted. I remember you

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watched Nickelodeon way longer than you should
have been watching. Some of us maintain

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our whimsy. I have friends in
my age she talk about watching Hannah on

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Tan and I'm like, wait,
yeah, really, you should not have

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been watching that. You had to
give it up in at some point,

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like I said, instead of you
are two wolves. On one hand,

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you're watching the Boon Dots. On
the other hand, you're watching SpongeBob.

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It's you can you can have a
foot in both worlds. Yeah, the

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duality of Man Boon Knocks and SpongeBob. That really is the duality of Man

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the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with
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193
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on Apple, Spotify, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Where was I

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00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:48,720
What did you interrupt? Oh?
I was talking about poker Face. Russian

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Doll was sort of the comeback moment
for Natasha Leon, who's now in all

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00:14:52,200 --> 00:15:01,639
the old Navy holiday ad campaign looking
fabulous and the Zembic era of the twenty

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twenties, and this the Russian Dolls
example that was on Netflix. Man second

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season could have cut, could have
cut the fat on that could have just

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not had that second season. So
what is an example of the fat aside

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from like the Ozembic loss, but
like no I mean that I meant,

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uh, the sort of streaming is
it just too self serving of the creatives

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or yeah? Yeah, yeah,
So it's like the concentration of quality is

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too diluted. So you know,
it's if you have a glass of if

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you pour orange juice into half a
glass and then you pour water and the

211
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rest of it should have just had
the orange juice before you pour the water

212
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,559
into, but then you need two
glasses of orange juice out of it.

213
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,759
Sure, but in this we'll see
exactly. So in the streaming areas,

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especially during covid UH, people wanted
to us more interest. They didn't just

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want the one. They wanted to
binge and there was so much money.

216
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These companies were all on sugar highs
because everyone was subscribing to everything. Everyone

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00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:18,200
was ready for subscriptions, they were
their investors were putting tons of money into

218
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,799
these products, and all of the
top talent was ready to do it.

219
00:16:22,919 --> 00:16:25,960
So so you're saying, why say
more word when few word do trick?

220
00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:30,720
Essentially exactly, But here's the thing
there. It's not zero sum, so

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you don't need you actually can make
more money in certain cases. This is

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my thing with that's a good point. Yeah, because they're not. It's

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not like any of these things are
running ads. It's not like they're like

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what we need. If you want
more subscribers, make better things. It's

225
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not about more anymore. And I
think people for a while were focused on

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volume because they thought what people wanted
was the most choice possible. And I

227
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think we thought what we wanted was
the most choice possible until we really that

228
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the most choice possible when you are
subscribing to three different streamers is the bag.

229
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The day, it was like,
okay, we're Netflix. Maybe you

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had Hulu, but you weren't subscribing
across the board to everything. But now

231
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people have pretty much said like,
okay, I'm not going to get away

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with just having Netflix and probably going
to have at least two subscriptions. Well,

233
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if you put two libraries together,
Netflix and Hulu's libraries alone, there's

234
00:17:22,759 --> 00:17:26,400
enough choice to last a lifetime just
now in twenty twenty three. If they

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stopped making new shows now in twenty
twenty three, and you combined the current

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libraries of Netflix and Hulu, probably
you would have enough to already last a

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lifetime let alone, with the years
and years and years and years and years

238
00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:42,440
of new content that's about to come
out. So when people started having these

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00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:49,000
heavily marketed, high budget shows,
you're feeling utterly mediocre. It felt like

240
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,200
you were drinking half a glass of
water and half a glass of orange juice

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when you were told you were getting
a glass of orange juice. And you're

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00:17:56,079 --> 00:18:00,160
getting to the point where there's so
much pure orange juice that you don't need

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00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,640
to be drinking your introjuice with water. It gives you diabetes. I don't

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00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,400
even know where we got to that
metaphor. It just came to me like

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00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:12,039
a flash of brilliance, obviously,
but that's that's how I would describe it.

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00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:15,440
And there's so many different examples.
If I just pulled up Netflix right

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00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,519
now, I could just go through
it. But you know what I mean,

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And I think I think that's at
least declining. Okay, I'm acceptive

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00:18:22,599 --> 00:18:27,799
to it, but poker face shrinking
and whatever else I said was an example

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00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:34,519
of the fat not being fully trimmed. One show that I love that does

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00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:40,960
not get enough attention and ended in
twenty twenty three is the Other Two?

252
00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:44,720
Did you watch the other two?
I've never heard of that started on Comedy

253
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,279
Central. I think it used to
run after Broad City, so it's been

254
00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:56,880
on that long and then it moved
to HBO and it was just a comedy.

255
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It was It was Molly Shannon,
and she sort of plays I want

256
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,480
to say, the main characters.
The main characters are her kids, but

257
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she sort of plays this matriarch almost. Actually, Ohio is a pretty big

258
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,400
part of the show, but it's
part of Ohio. I think it's a

259
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,839
fake part. Yeah, I don't
think it's a but lost interest. Ohio

260
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,920
is a recurring character on the show
because they're from Ohio and end up their

261
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,000
brother turns into kind of a Justin
Bieber and so they moved to New York

262
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:32,759
City and then the mom becomes kind
of an opera, becomes kind of an

263
00:19:32,759 --> 00:19:34,319
obra. It's a lot going on
here. So fame sweeps up to this

264
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:41,160
family from Ohio and the two millennial
kind of older brother and sister. The

265
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,640
show is just a comedy that follows
them. Ended this year. It ended

266
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:51,319
this year, but it was just
a fun, hilarious, irreverent, satirical

267
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:56,960
show about pop culture and sometimes politics
in America that I think it was like

268
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,119
it hit like eighty percent of the
time. It was really good and I'm

269
00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:04,440
really going to miss that show.
Fantastic and we need more like that,

270
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,160
more like Platonic, very good show. What We Do in the Shadows had

271
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,920
a good year. I thought,
did you watch this latest season? I

272
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,920
did not explain it to me.
What look? I rewatched King of the

273
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,599
Hill. I've been watching a lot
of anime, a lot going on,

274
00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:22,759
kind of worried about you. It's
been a long year. It does seem

275
00:20:22,759 --> 00:20:26,240
like King of the Hill is having
a little bit of a moment. The

276
00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:30,039
moment never ended. It's a kind
of a comeback. I think it's always

277
00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:33,440
been this moment. Did end?
No, no, no, it ended

278
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,640
because Fox made the horrible mistake of
canceling it for the Cleveland Show. But

279
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,599
that's besides the point that's in the
weeds. I just remember them forcing like

280
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:44,200
Joe Buck to do ads for King
of the Hill during football games. I

281
00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:47,200
love that show so much. But
What We Do in the Shadows have you

282
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,920
seen it at all? I've seen
some of it, Okay, I have

283
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,640
not seen much. I have seen
episodes. That's disappointing. I'm watching anime,

284
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:57,680
man, what do you want from
me? Yeah? Well, okay,

285
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,960
So one of the reasons, like
the show. I feel like it

286
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,759
was very early on the bandwagon,
like right when it first came out.

287
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:06,480
In fact, before the TV show
came out, there was a documentary from

288
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,519
like twenty fourteens, like an office
style documentary. You've seen it actually very

289
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:15,240
funny. The show was I think, probably funnier than the documentary. And

290
00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:19,000
right after I watched that, I
came to it late. I was googling

291
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,599
the documentary just to you know,
kind of learn about everyone involved, which

292
00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:27,640
turned out to be Tako Watiti.
I was very Did you see our flag

293
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,359
means death? He needs to go
to jail? Did you share our Flag

294
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,680
means Death? The new so there. I haven't watched second season. I

295
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,680
watched the first season a couple of
years ago. It's on HBO. That's

296
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:44,480
some fat that could be trimmed.
He's one of those the second season at

297
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:47,880
least, he's one of those guys
who just is too indulgent, or he's

298
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,880
rather too indulged. So I actually
like most of what he does. I

299
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:55,920
will say, but maybe I'm missing
something. What in particular do not like

300
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,799
that he's done? So was the
soccer movie he just did? Oh?

301
00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:06,759
I didn't see that last goal winds
for school wins whatever that is. That

302
00:22:06,839 --> 00:22:11,160
was terrible. So I enjoyed Jojo
Rabbit. I liked Jojo. I liked

303
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,519
it quite a bit. But he's
one of these guys who maybe it's just

304
00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:18,400
there's too much hype. Yeah,
I agree with he's one of these mad

305
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,880
creative geniuses who just doesn't deliver,
who's not a genius. Yeah, he's

306
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,160
just an ascended midwid he's fashioned as
a creative genius when he's actually just really

307
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,960
creative. Yeah, and that's that's
fine. Like, I'm cool with like

308
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:34,759
eccentric people being given creative freedom,
but like the ring them in so you

309
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:38,240
can actually get a coherent product eighty
percent of the time. There's I think

310
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,960
there's an identity politics aspect. Yeah, they want telling me in Hollywood in

311
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,440
twenty twenty three, there's identity politics. Well, no, I know that's

312
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,480
surprising, but it's always kind of
grading when it happens with someone who actually

313
00:22:51,519 --> 00:22:53,720
is talented, right, and they're
just over hyped. Yeah, and I

314
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,680
think that is true of him.
And I actually think our Flag means death,

315
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,480
which he's a huge part of that
show. But what we do in

316
00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:03,839
the Shadows, the TV show,
it's on FX and Hulu. He's kind

317
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:07,200
of stepped back from I think he
writes some of the episodes and produces it,

318
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,079
and he sometimes will come into the
show. But our five means death

319
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,559
is that's a that's him like through
and through. He's not the main character.

320
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,599
Oh, he's in it, but
he's not the main character. And

321
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:25,680
it just that first season again,
you can tell it's pretty from what it

322
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,839
looks like. It looks like they
put a lot of money into it,

323
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,400
and he's a big name, so
obviously it costs money to bring him into

324
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:36,519
a project like that. Overly indulgent
and could have been a great, like

325
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:38,759
six episode show, but I think
it wasn't said like eight or ten or

326
00:23:38,759 --> 00:23:42,279
maybe even more than that. And
then the second season looked really bad.

327
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,480
Frankly, it looked I didn't even
watch it, but it looked like fat

328
00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:52,799
that needed to be trimmed. It
looked like overtly political rather than sort of

329
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,559
for the sake of itself. Do
you think he might just be I mean,

330
00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:03,000
I think he is just kind of
bad, not bad, but over

331
00:24:03,079 --> 00:24:06,079
hyped in general. Do you think
he's just pulled too thin because he has

332
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,920
his hands in a lot of pies
right now? Maybe maybe. I mean,

333
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:11,839
yeah, that's possible, especially because
after Jojo Rabbit everything came flooding his

334
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,720
way and so he's probably still catching
up on all of that. Like Thor

335
00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:21,079
Regnarok and Jojo Rabbit were great movies. Oh that's right, and then everything

336
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:26,000
else afterwards was just well, here's
the Hawaiian guy or South African Hawaiian guy,

337
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:30,920
whatever he is. Give him stuff
pollination. Yeah, I think he's

338
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:37,359
from New Zealand. I had the
Pacific Island right the first time. If

339
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,519
you watch Below Deck, which as
I mentioned on this podcast a couple of

340
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:44,880
times, I spent most of the
year doing. You're very attuned to the

341
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:51,519
differences between Australia and New Zealand.
It's a lots and kiwis on Below Deck

342
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:56,400
and all of the various franchises.
But that is that was my TV flagship

343
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,359
this year. Is I worked my
way through every single franchise, and I

344
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,920
did that in the first six months
and have been since been, you know,

345
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,480
watching the current below Deck and making
that a priority. But man,

346
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:17,359
was that I guard the Bravo brand
fairly jealously because that sentence has never once

347
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,559
been uttered in the English language before. Well, I can say this.

348
00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:25,359
Things that I know, the things
that I've written about sort of political correctness

349
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,920
seeping into reality television have found their
ways to people at Bravo. And there's

350
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,440
a reason I think reality television,
first of all, it's it's not going

351
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:40,160
anywhere like you. It is TikTok, right, it is reeles. It's

352
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,680
all everything we do so long as
our smartphones have cameras on them, we

353
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,359
are living in this kind of hyperreality
is panopticonic, and it's all goes obviously,

354
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,559
it all goes back to the government. Well I shouldn't say obviously,

355
00:25:53,599 --> 00:26:02,039
but come on the likelihood that's definitely
does you know, can't say for sure

356
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,559
or that you know, potentially if
they wanted it all too they definitely could

357
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:11,920
do that. Yes, they just
would install software on your phone and you

358
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,960
know you would never know it.
Yeah, Okay, So it sounded like

359
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,920
somebody was breaking into the office,
which is why Sam and I were briefly

360
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,319
distracted. Although I think we covered
it up fairly well. I still keep

361
00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:25,559
I keep hearing beeps, like on
the door lock or something. I don't

362
00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:30,200
know. Well that makes sense given
our location, But good luck if you

363
00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:37,160
break into our office, because Sam
is eight feet tall. Please don't doesn't

364
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:45,279
want that anyway, So they where
was I Sam's reality TV? Reality?

365
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,079
I watched Love Is Blind? Okay? Good? Or because your roommate loves

366
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:56,400
Love a Holy cow? That show
is wild. It's a pretty So this

367
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,480
is what's interesting about reality TV.
And that's why again I think there is

368
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:04,440
something to be said about guarding reality
TV and the sort of authenticity of reality

369
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:10,680
TV, because the best reality TV
is the obviously the most real reality TV.

370
00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:15,039
The best reality TV stars are people
who need no need, no producing,

371
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,160
no scripting or anything like that.
And you know, right, And

372
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,119
there are some networks that are really
good at making so much reality TV and

373
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:29,279
not using good reality TV stars because
they just do so much they rely on

374
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:32,079
a lot of editing tricks. And
TLC is what I'm thinking of particularly,

375
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:33,680
and that's not about every show on
TLC, but a lot of them.

376
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,119
And reality stars themselves have become so
self aware, and that's definitely true of

377
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,839
everybody on Love is Blind. But
you have to adapt when the reality starts

378
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:47,000
to become self aware because they were
born in the nineties and the two thousands,

379
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:48,559
which is true. If everybody on
Love is Blind who grew up with

380
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,079
reality television and knows exactly what it's
about, and knows what editing is,

381
00:27:53,240 --> 00:28:00,240
knows what the production is, and
is you know on this show that tons

382
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:03,440
of people are going to watch.
Tell me what you so, what you

383
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,559
thought about the kind of human aspect
of the experiment, like is this?

384
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,960
I think there's something that would be
taken away from it on you know,

385
00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:23,000
modern dating being So let's see content
heavy meaning. I mean, I mean

386
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:29,039
that before you meet people, there's
so much like the first thing you do

387
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,720
is see how they curate themselves image
wise and so on. Love is blind,

388
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:41,119
Going into it blind is interesting.
That's a good point. So my

389
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,680
original response is gonna be Dude's rock
and that it's a dystopian healscape. But

390
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:48,640
now that you say that, I
think there's a lot to it. I

391
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:56,559
think I still take umbradge with the
fact that you know these people who are

392
00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:02,960
like trying to fall in love with
just a voice, when that's theoretically not

393
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:06,640
how this is supposed to work.
You're supposed to acknowledge someone with all their

394
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,119
flaws and imperfections in going into it. Very much not blind, but it

395
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,640
is like the foil to everything else
where you just know what they look like.

396
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:19,960
Yeah, so instead of just doom
scrolling on whatever dating app you use,

397
00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:25,440
you get all of the person,
none of the aesthetic. So I

398
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,720
think there's something very interesting going on
there that is really interesting, especially in

399
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,519
the context of a reality TV show
where it's typically all of the athetic,

400
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:37,960
right, how people sort of perform
themselves sound like Judith Butler briefly. It's

401
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:45,759
also in the dating app culture,
how you can kind of it sort of

402
00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:51,400
gamifies the most important part of life, which is finding a mate and reproducing.

403
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,519
It gamifies that in a way where
you can actually have filters for height,

404
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,640
for skin color, eye color.
You can add those filter yourselves,

405
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:06,160
or you can filter some of the
apps let you use those filters, although

406
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,960
something I think tweaked them post twenty
twenty. I don't know to you know,

407
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:17,480
the race thing is weird. It
gets into really weird territory and on

408
00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:19,960
love is Blind, all you have
is the voice and the mind behind the

409
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:22,960
voice. Yeah, there should be
interesting about that or just the voice.

410
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,680
I don't think there's much going on
with the mind aspect of well, but

411
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:32,519
dating it. I mean sure for
a lot of people, uh, well

412
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:34,039
not for a lot of people that
was one of the dumbest ways to begin

413
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:42,559
their friends for everyone. The physical
yeah, down to like pheromones and all

414
00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:49,480
of that is really how people make
these determinations. So removing it's not just

415
00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:55,000
about I mean obviously physical attractiveness in
terms of how somebody looks visually, but

416
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,160
also it's things like how they smell, how they all of those things,

417
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:03,039
like we know biologically are of how
people couple off, and so removing all

418
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,079
that I think is actually just like
an interesting experiment, right. I think

419
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:10,079
there's also something to be said,
like they're obviously casting these people, like

420
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:12,480
they're not just pulling the random folks
off the street, like a lot goes

421
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:19,599
into like curating the allegedly totally organic
falling in love with the brain and the

422
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,039
mind and the soul of the people. Like they're not going to pick you

423
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:25,920
know, uggos for a list.
They are just going to pick who they

424
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,279
think are They're going to do the
aesthetic work for you. Yeah, that

425
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:30,440
doesn't bother me as much because a
lot of people are like, well,

426
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,680
love is blind is sort of useless
because everybody going into it knows that the

427
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,240
person on the other side of the
wall isn't going to be ugly. Yeah,

428
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:44,720
yeah, I mean yep, but
that's it's not about the risk of

429
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:51,440
somebody being ugly. It's about this
person evil. They're on a reality TV

430
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:56,279
dating show, so you're on are
already high. But man if John Daniel

431
00:31:56,359 --> 00:32:00,960
Davidson was listening to this Archolie John, he would just write both of us

432
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:08,359
off. Probably, yeah, I
know it's true though. It's about the

433
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:14,359
It's not just about whether someone is
physically, you know, super ugly or

434
00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:19,839
super hot and that kind of Do
you remember those box the Wonder Box,

435
00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:22,799
the candy that is. I think
it was like Disney is a chocolate ball.

436
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:28,079
It was going to be inside of
wonder ball. What's in a wonder

437
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:35,519
ball? That used to be the
Certain Death Since you asked, it was

438
00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:37,279
just a little plastic toy with definitely
not covered in lead paint at all.

439
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:42,200
Well, it's not. That's not
what love is blind is. It's about

440
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:52,119
whether your sort of mental intellectual attraction
to somebody can withstand a physical the physical

441
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,519
reality, and not a physical surprise
like hot or ugly, because everyone knows

442
00:32:55,519 --> 00:33:00,799
they're probably gonna get somebody that looks
good. It's more about like whether you're

443
00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:04,640
still sort of attracted to somebody who
might look different than you have pictured them

444
00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:09,160
or something like that. Totally.
I'm glad we solve that problem. We

445
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:15,319
also watched My roommate and I watched
Love on the Spectrum Love, Love on

446
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:19,920
the Spectrum. I went into it
expecting to just really dislike it another Netflix

447
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,279
show because it has like this,
I expect it to hate it. Yeah,

448
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:27,200
because like on the surface, I
feel like it's I feel like we're

449
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,359
all just conditioned to think it's going
to be mean, but it's actually very

450
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,640
very sweet, very endearingly. Yeah, it's these are people who want human

451
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,759
connection, who are aware, you
know, they're different than everyone else.

452
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:42,279
This gives them a shot at that. And it's not a competition like Love

453
00:33:42,319 --> 00:33:45,440
is Blind. Love is Blind as
structured more like The Bachelor. It's not

454
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,200
it's not totally like win or Lose, but it is like there are different

455
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:52,960
levels and levels of the show and
all of that, whereas this is more

456
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,960
of a docuseries Love on the Spectrums
more. I think it's probably best explained

457
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,440
actually as a docuseries. Yeah.
Yeah, it's very very endearing, incredible

458
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:07,280
depth that it brings to people who
are disabled. On the spectrum Yeah,

459
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:13,239
it's in how they relate to each
other, which I think is really poorly

460
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:20,239
understood because so many of the pop
cultural lenses into the world of somebody with

461
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,519
autism are from somebody without it,
whereas in this time, a lot of

462
00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:28,639
what you're seeing is people with autism
relating to each other. And that's I

463
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,800
mean, it's so cool. If
you don't know anybody in your life who

464
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,920
like, very closely in your life, who lives with us, you're not

465
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,880
going to know how like they live, and it gives everyone else so glimpse

466
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,840
into that aspect of life. It's
a great way to build empathy. So

467
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,079
cool, and it's it's just really
fun. We've published pro and anti love

468
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:52,000
on the spectrum pieces I think of
a federalist and it's, you know,

469
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,079
it's worth thing. It's definitely worth
thinking about. But it's I really enjoyed

470
00:34:55,079 --> 00:35:00,440
the show. Okay, another show
that absolutely turns the reality genre since we're

471
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,679
on it upside down this year was
Jerry Duty. People went, that's so

472
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,840
crazy for Jerry Dewey. That's a
the satirical one, like it's kind of

473
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:14,159
real, kind of not real exactly. It's got the guy from I Hate

474
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:15,920
the fact, I'm going to say
this, he was in the Sonic the

475
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:23,880
Hedgehog movie, which the name really
was James James Madden, James Marsden.

476
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:30,079
I was close. Yeah, James
Marsden. Uh he yes, it does

477
00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:35,280
have James Martsen in it. Sonic
the Headshog. Good movie. So my

478
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,599
controversial opinion on Jerry Duty is that
I honestly stopped watching after four or five

479
00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:45,880
episodes. All my friends loved that
show, and I understand why I I

480
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,679
was kind of boring. I think
maybe the latter half of the show was

481
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,480
better than the first half, because
the first half is setting up the bit

482
00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:57,800
where if people don't know, it's
about a regular guy who they convince has

483
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,719
been cast on a real jury for
real time trial, but the full jury

484
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:06,320
is fake. The full trial is
fake, and so as you can imagine,

485
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,880
they incrementally have a lot of fun
with him, and they can pull

486
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,360
that off because he has to be
totally isolated because of the nature of being

487
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,000
on a jury. This feels kind
of illegal. I honestly had so many

488
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:20,639
questions about the legality. But I
imagine when you go into a reality TV

489
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,119
show and actually this is one of
the things that happened this year. It

490
00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:27,239
was a real reckoning for reality TV, or what some people want it to

491
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,559
be, a real reckoning for reality
TV. Lawsuits against Bravo, threats of

492
00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:37,960
lawsuits against Bravo. Is Love Itself
could be a reality TV series? It

493
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,320
absolutely could, and it is so
this is well no, I mean it's

494
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,119
playing out on. One of the
things I've written about a couple of times,

495
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:50,239
and definitely over the past five years
since influencer culture has absolutely blossomed,

496
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,559
is how it's impossible really to find
new reality stars that are not influencer poisoned,

497
00:36:55,639 --> 00:37:00,960
that are not influencers, and that
is a totally different genre. That's

498
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,639
a good point. It's a completely
different thing because like all these people,

499
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,280
I don't know about all these people. I know this archetype very well.

500
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,599
It's kind of seems as though the
people who are primed for reality television are

501
00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:15,840
kind of just doing this to start
their career as an influencer, right,

502
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:22,079
yes, and trying to start their
career as an influencer and are very sort

503
00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:30,239
of hyper conscious of everything and not
just of everything because that's kind of always

504
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:31,559
been part of reality TV. In
real world, do you put a bunch

505
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:36,000
of people in a house with cameras
absolutely everywhere, something the Big Brother that's

506
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:38,880
been around forever. People know that
they're being filmed. On the other hand,

507
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,559
though, it's about monetizing absolutely everything
you know, down to the nail

508
00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:47,920
polish you're wearing. I mean,
not you, Sam and not me either.

509
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,079
But it's just constant, and that's
it's very, very different, and

510
00:37:54,199 --> 00:38:00,800
I'm not saying one is like pure
or better. Although I love capitalism,

511
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,880
there's no way to do it.
There's a way to do the new thing

512
00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:07,639
and to make it work that I
think people are working on. But I

513
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:08,840
actually did have a lot of questions
about the legality, and I think it

514
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:15,360
probably they had him sign away everything
in order to I think he thought he

515
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,719
was featured on a documentary. That's
how they got him involved in all of

516
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,880
it. And man, yeah,
I was wondering the same thing. But

517
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,760
a lot of people are now threatening
lawsuits against Bravo and saying they were applied

518
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,880
with alcohol, deprived of things that
they needed in order to function appropriately,

519
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:35,679
and were thus sort of abused in
the process of making these shows. I

520
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,000
doubt Bravo has any legal liability on
any of that, because I'm sure that

521
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:43,760
They for years have had those contracts
tight, and people are desperate enough to

522
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,000
go on reality TV that they sign
them. Of course. Yeah, it's

523
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:53,159
a one way it's a quick ticket
to fame and money and all you have

524
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:59,000
to do is be filmed. That's
why people have been signing these contracts for

525
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:00,880
years. So I really equation to
make. Yeah, I really doubt that

526
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,960
this will be Actually, that's where
I was going to say, I actually

527
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,800
really really doubt this is going to
be a reckoning for reality TV because there

528
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:13,199
will always be people desperate enough to
be plied with alcohol and to sign away

529
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:21,159
all of that. So anyway,
Yeah, that was so Jerry duty.

530
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,960
I honestly, I know people loved
it. I understand why they loved it.

531
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,280
It wasn't for me. Yeah,
I got through four or five of

532
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:37,519
them. Let's see, did you
watch the idol? Oh boy, oh

533
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:50,840
boy. I don't think I resent
that it exists, really, I don't.

534
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,480
I know. There are some like
takes where it's you know, it's

535
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,440
doing something different. What is it
doing different? It's just smut. You

536
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,280
thought it was too pornographic to be
sort of a subst of critique of pornographers.

537
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,079
Yeah, like it's just you're just
perpetuating the thing you're trying to create

538
00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:09,400
a commentary on, Like you're not
doing this intelligently at all, Euphoria,

539
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:15,039
Like, there's plenty of ways you
can criticize Euphoria. It's at least criticizing

540
00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:19,199
the things that it's showing you.
I think it's at least a fair reading

541
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,039
of Euphoria's that it's criticizing those things. But I think that's actually one of

542
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:27,280
the points of tension with White Lotus, which is I wrote a pedi on

543
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,599
White Lotus that was like, is
this a reactionary master piece? Question mark

544
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,480
and then said, you know where
the question mark? Yeah, because I

545
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,119
think it's an open question. And
I think that's true. That's actually really

546
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,280
interesting that was your takeaway from the
idol, because this is another HBO show,

547
00:40:40,679 --> 00:40:47,079
like Euphoria and like White Lotus,
that is immersed in an exploration of

548
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:52,719
the pain of decadence. So I
think the idol could have worked. I

549
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:57,559
think the premise is interesting and love
itself. I think the execution was just

550
00:40:57,639 --> 00:41:01,360
abysmal. I think you can do
you can explore that topic quite effectively,

551
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:08,599
and probably ought to, just it
didn't work. The idol, not the

552
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:15,039
whatever the weekend the Idol, I
mean, yes, whatever whatever. His

553
00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:22,199
name is ansel and pronounced unpronounceable last
name, not a good actor. It

554
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:25,239
didn't work. I didn't think he
was that bad. I thought it was

555
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:30,000
abysmal really, and it just made
it feel more like, just made it

556
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:36,079
feel more vulgar. Yes, yeah, that's not I actually think that's pretty

557
00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:39,159
fair. Yeah, I was more
willing to see it as a critique,

558
00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:46,760
but I also didn't finish because I
also thought it was a little bit I

559
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,159
think it could have been leaner.
I think they also pulled the series.

560
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,840
So yeah, the immediate well,
yeah, and that's the thing with a

561
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,119
show like this, it's sort of
like it's easy to be anti anti idol

562
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:01,880
because the anti idol crowd one,
well, but the anti idol crowd was

563
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,119
also not coming from the same place
that you were. It was a lot

564
00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:10,760
of like feminist, weird feminist backlash
to the idol. Like this is when

565
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,800
I think people didn't realize that in
some circumstances, it was very obviously a

566
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,760
critique, you know. Some of
that was it was so obviously a critique,

567
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,360
but whether or not the critique was
aware of or whether or not the

568
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:29,599
critique understood that it was perpetuating some
of those problems. I think is another

569
00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:34,760
question interesting though. That's very interesting. Yeah, because with White Lotus,

570
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:37,679
the second half of the piece that
I wrote about it is sort of laying

571
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,480
out how it's I think a pretty
good and there was no new White Lotus

572
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:45,760
season. This year was last year, right, not since twenty twenty three.

573
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,719
I think it came out late in
twenty twenty two. I think the

574
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,920
second season was late twenty twenty two. I don't remember. I remember seeing

575
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:57,119
gifts of it while in the office, so I think twenty twenty three.

576
00:42:58,199 --> 00:43:00,519
I'm looking right now, but I'm
pretty sure it was late twenty twenty two.

577
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:06,760
I'm pretty sure it was lost fall. Pretty sure. Yeah, yeap,

578
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,679
it ended about a year ago.
The second season. I just realized

579
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,840
my water bottle is right next to
the radiator, all those microplastics. It's

580
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:21,119
a very old radiator. Oh,
let's good old. But anyway, so

581
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,679
yeah, the second half was like, does White Lotus even know what it's

582
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:30,480
doing? I actually think no.
I think Mike White doesn't have all the

583
00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:32,119
answers to the questions that he's asking. But I think half of the battle

584
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:37,079
is asking some of these questions,
and that doesn't make it a conservative show.

585
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,960
That just means that maybe it's working
through some things that could land somebody

586
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,760
in a conservative position. It's not. And again, like I didn't come

587
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,920
to a conclusion one way or the
other about White Lotus, I just said

588
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:53,400
it's asking some good questions and there's
an open question about what it's trying to

589
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,639
do. And I thought that also
applied to The Idol. I think that

590
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,920
applies to Euphoria, although honestly I
stopped watching Euphoria in the same way I

591
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,719
stopped watching The Idol. If I
were a teenager, maybe I'd be more

592
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,000
gripped by them, But it just
that's valid. I haven't I haven't really

593
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:13,800
kept up with Euphoria kind of soapy. Yeah. I think the production quality

594
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,719
is probably it's high, it's best. I mean, actually, I'm weird

595
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,800
in this regard. I think that
I think the production quality is it's best

596
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,199
selling point. It's I mean,
it's HBO, so of course it's going

597
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:23,519
to be high quality, but it's
very well produced. Yeah. No,

598
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:27,280
I agree with that. I agree
with that. What else have we got

599
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,679
here? Real quick? I fall
into this camp a lot. But to

600
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:36,800
your point, like they're not necessarily
making conservative art. But I feel like

601
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,960
we often fall into this trap of
like it's just something I agree with or

602
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,159
asks a question I've wanted to ask. Yes, So we always, at

603
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,119
least in the right of center sphere, people will always go this is conservative,

604
00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:52,280
this is a right wing. In
actuality, it's just a human instinct

605
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,719
to ask questions about things we don't
fully understand, as opposed to saying this

606
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,760
is what it is one percent of
the time in your craft, right.

607
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,920
And that's why I was frustrated when
my story with a question mark on it,

608
00:45:02,039 --> 00:45:05,480
or my essay on white Lotus,
which had a question mark on the

609
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:10,239
headline reactionary masterpiece. Well, it's
clearly a masterpiece first and foremost, at

610
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:16,159
least artistically. Secondly, if I
thought it was a reactionary masterpiece, I

611
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:21,119
want to put a damn exclamation point, like one of the most popular shows,

612
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:28,079
you know. So anyway, I
think it's it's unfortunate how social media

613
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:32,360
conditions us to put things in boxes, because the putting of things into boxes

614
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:42,719
is incentivized by our own animal like
and retweet instincts, Like it's just much

615
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,320
more tempting to like and retweet something
that comes down hard one way or the

616
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:52,360
other to categorize, right, right, right, The point of you know,

617
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:59,800
engaging and that kind of gamified discourse
is to curate categories. I don't

618
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:05,320
know, maybe that's poorly said,
but that's correct. Yeah, so that's

619
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,920
interesting. Actually, did you watch
another HBO show that I it just ended.

620
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:15,599
I absolutely love and it's only in
that second season. I loved it

621
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:21,719
from the first episode of the first
season because it's it's weirdly camp, you

622
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,599
know. It's like if Downton Abbey
were camp, and that would be Gilded

623
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:28,400
Age, which is from I don't
think, I don't know if you would

624
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,639
like it, but like Christine Baranski
and actually MeTL Streek's daughter, it is

625
00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:39,440
just a delight and it's it's basically
down Abbey in the Gilded Age and kind

626
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,920
of American right americanized, and that
you have. Yeah, I think it's

627
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,360
a little bit of camp, you
know. And it really started to catch

628
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,320
on in the second season. I
started to see a lot of other people

629
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,159
saying they were watching and liking it. Who among us doesn't love Little Camp

630
00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:57,519
Now? And then right right,
speaking of which one of the best new

631
00:46:57,559 --> 00:47:00,960
reality shows. Well, so there's
a probably the biggest TV moment of the

632
00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:06,320
year, and I'm not exaggerating,
was Scannabll on vander Pump Rules, And

633
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:10,519
obviously we have to talk about it
because vander Pump Rules is one of my

634
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:15,199
favorite shows ever. I think it
is one of the greatest reality shows ever.

635
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:22,119
But that was mega. I mean, these vander Pump Rules guys are

636
00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:27,880
like D list celebrities at best.
They're probably lower than that because they came

637
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:31,599
when the monoculture was splintering and they
were right before influencer culture took off.

638
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:35,280
But now, of course they're all
influencers. And that's example of a reality

639
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,840
show that does it right by sort
of being self aware. And you know,

640
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:44,239
they're not self aware, but the
showmakers are self aware, and you

641
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,199
know, kind of are able to
bring out the absurdities of influencer culture and

642
00:47:47,519 --> 00:47:52,760
all of that and allow people to
kind of have this venting the space to

643
00:47:53,360 --> 00:48:00,599
vent the necessary mocking impulse. There's
something very cathartic about watching them on vander

644
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:06,239
Pumper roles hawk their lip kits or
whatever it is and look ridiculous while they're

645
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:12,599
trying really hard to look alluring.
So it's all very delightful, but that

646
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:15,199
took off this year. That put
vander Pump Roles on the map. That

647
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,280
put you know, it's been going
since like twenty twelve, but that really

648
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,400
brought one of the characters who does
a long running series. Yeah, she

649
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:27,039
was the victim of the cheating scandal. Na. Sorryanna, she wasn't Dancing

650
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:30,079
with the Stars after that. And
although the standard has been sort of lowered

651
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:34,480
for that, she's on like magazine
covers. It's just it is kind of

652
00:48:34,519 --> 00:48:40,440
interesting how that show which hit a
really same thing with Southern Charm. I

653
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:45,360
haven't watched this new season of Southern
Charm because I just completely burned out on

654
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:52,000
that show, and I think they
have become influencers in an untenable and just

655
00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:57,960
totally on a pealing way. That
was that show was right on the cusp

656
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,480
of influencer culture and Rules was,
and they've now been brought into the influencer

657
00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:07,559
culture era and people are still watching. They had problems in twenty twenty with

658
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:10,519
political correctness and it seemed like the
shows were doomed, but vander Pump Rules

659
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:15,199
is now actually bringing back one of
the people that was canceled in the wake

660
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:20,679
of all of the political correctness in
the wake of the wave that crashed,

661
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,119
the PC wave that crashed over American
culture in twenty twenty, especially these like

662
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:28,800
kind of left spaces like Bravo actually
bringing one of the guys back. I

663
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,519
mean, it's just well, I'll
just say, like the self correction we

664
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:38,880
talked about in the earlier episode in
the movie Space, the self correction is

665
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,679
it's still an open question. If
I were putting it in a headline,

666
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:45,400
I would use an exclamation all right, I'm sorry, I would use a

667
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,920
question mark fair, you know,
But it seems like there's it's possible that

668
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,320
a self correction is afoot fair.
That's very valid. If you can bring

669
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,760
Jack's Taylor back to vander Pumper rules, the American culture can heal itself.

670
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:04,840
Is this Jax sure as Oh my
gosh, sure is the firstborn Jacks Mangold

671
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,760
Lennett. Have you thought about that
for yours? At some point you're air

672
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:16,280
powerful Jack's Mangold Lennett. I was
seeking Caesar Mangold Lennet, or maybe Donald

673
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:22,960
J. Trump Mangol Lennet, Donald
John Trump Mangold Lennon. That's a certain

674
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:29,280
genetic well man, We'll pray that
there's a woman out there open to that.

675
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,280
Did you watch Kunk on Earth?
That sounds like a I feel like

676
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,320
it's a little dirty, right,
Yeah, just call me a slur.

677
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,000
What's going on? You know?
It's a kind of mocks the BBC documentaries

678
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,119
Philamina Counk. It's on Netflix,
Unfortunate last name. You'd like it,

679
00:50:46,599 --> 00:50:50,480
check it? Trust me. Did
you watch the new season of The Bear?

680
00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:52,920
Yes? Yes, The Bears good. The Bear is very very good,

681
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,960
beautifully man. Yes, yes,
that second season. Speaking of shows

682
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,119
that avoid that are lean, I
think every second of The Bear, let

683
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:05,480
alone, every episode, no fat
on the bone. No, and even

684
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:07,480
more so than the first season,
which I thought was borderline perfect, the

685
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:15,760
second season was compelling. Yeah,
every second of it was intentional storytelling.

686
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,000
It's just you're engaged the entire time. It's so Chicago too, Like I'm

687
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,159
not from Chicago, from outside Milwaukee, but just like growing up in that

688
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,400
area and talking to people friends that
have that are from Chicago area. That

689
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:35,039
show nails Chicago culture and Chicago area
culture probably better than anything. I guess

690
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:37,960
you don't really You grew up far
enough away from Chicago that probably doesn't matter.

691
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:44,039
Yet I think good, fair enough, fair, although Cincinnati used to

692
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:47,480
be They say Cincinnati was the old
Chicago. I forget how it was Chicago's

693
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,719
store Amantle, But that's besides the
point. Did you buy any chance watch

694
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:59,360
the New Fraser? Next topic?
Did you buy any chance watch the New

695
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:04,840
Fraser? I refuse. You didn't
watch, then they're going to They're going

696
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,079
to kill everything I love. I
will not watch the New Fraser. You

697
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:10,239
can't. I had to give up
on this a long time ago. I

698
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:19,360
used to be like you that it
was emotionally painful, was content, was

699
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,440
emotionally painful to see sort of beloved
Ip get butchered. But it is so

700
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:30,320
rampant in the sequel three Coal four
cool the stuck culture. In the stuck

701
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:37,079
culture that you have to numb yourself
to it, You have to have to

702
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:42,400
lower your standards and numb yourself as
irony poisoned as I. Maybe I will

703
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,840
always cry tears of blood for Fraser. Why blood? I would just being

704
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:54,800
dramatic, something you could talk to
Fraser about. Actually, it's it's hokey.

705
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,519
It's it's it's hokey, and it
feels in twenty twenty three different than

706
00:53:01,199 --> 00:53:07,840
then. Obviously sitcoms felt, you
know, even even something that's sophisticated and

707
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:14,079
good, like Frasier, it feels
different watching that kind of laugh track humor

708
00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:17,039
in twenty twenty three. You have
to reaccliment yourself to the laugh track fair

709
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,480
and once you do that, that's
a good point because every sitcom nowadays is

710
00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:27,599
just like awkward, like multicam partner
multicam, I don't know if that's right

711
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:30,039
term. It's like the documentary office
Parks and rect type thing. Yeah,

712
00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:35,880
there's this, Yeah, totally,
there's this. You know, the people

713
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,920
who are sort of smart asses love
those YouTube videos of like Friends without the

714
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:44,320
laugh track. It's like, I
love those videos. Of course you do.

715
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:45,719
I knew you were going to love
those videos. In fact, you

716
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:52,159
probably make those videos for all I
know. Yes, he's not denying it,

717
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:57,960
say those those are just like the
shows were made with laugh tracks,

718
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:02,480
and you you were accust dimmed to
watching them with laugh tracks, like if

719
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:07,239
they didn't have And I actually get
the argument that the laughs lift a lot

720
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:13,239
of the jokes up, but it
was also such a part of the rhythm

721
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,920
of how you watch the show and
how you write the show. You know,

722
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,639
you're watching with other people and by
the way, if a laugh track

723
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,159
makes you laugh, fine, Yeah, who cares? Fine? Like how

724
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,480
many jokes are set in comedy clubs? That are you go and watch the

725
00:54:24,519 --> 00:54:29,599
set after you watched it. I've
watched sets, for example, that people

726
00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:31,840
have done after a special has come
out, or I mean the other way

727
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:37,519
around. So I'll watch the set
for the special yea, and then it

728
00:54:37,519 --> 00:54:39,400
becomes a special and I'm like,
I laughed at that? Yeah, Like

729
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:44,079
did I really laugh at that?
It's just there's something about, obviously,

730
00:54:44,119 --> 00:54:47,199
the communal experience that they replicate on
a show like Friends, and when it's

731
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,679
organic and you can hear like some
people like losing it with their laughter.

732
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,519
It's just like, it's okay,
it's okay to find that funny. So

733
00:54:55,559 --> 00:55:00,239
the new Fraser I think has its
heart in the right place, and I

734
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:06,480
thought I found it perfectly passable.
If you know what, in the past,

735
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:08,880
I would have said a sort of
sad coda to a great franchise just

736
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,920
because you can never live up to
it, so why bother? But listen,

737
00:55:13,039 --> 00:55:19,920
they don't like that is not how
art works in a hyper capitalist society,

738
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,280
and the hyper capitalism brings us many
things that we love, like the

739
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,920
original Fraser, so you can't really
have one without the other. If they

740
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,079
turned Fraser into a lady, I
will be livid. Oh no, no,

741
00:55:30,079 --> 00:55:35,239
no, no, it didn't happen
yet. Well, although I don't

742
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,599
want to give anyone spoilers, but
there he remains a man. And Kelsey

743
00:55:38,639 --> 00:55:43,800
Grammar, by the way, is
a staunch conservative. He would never he

744
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:49,119
would never agree to that. He
narrates the history documentaries on Fox Nation.

745
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,280
Have you watched them? I was. I watched like a Civil War one

746
00:55:52,280 --> 00:56:00,840
recently. That's good grammar of an
angel. All right, although is coming

747
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:05,199
back to Marvel? So really yeah, you will? You know, if

748
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,239
there's a check, he'll do it. So Fraser is not the new Fraser

749
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:14,320
could be compromised. Mm hmm.
Remain profoundly sceptical. Well, you have

750
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,639
to have low expectations for everyone,
even Kelsey Grammar. You're breaking my heart

751
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,039
this one. I'm telling you need
to numb yourself to this. It's hard,

752
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,920
out of control, Get over it. I'm a romantic. What do

753
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,840
you want from me? Sure?
This is not catching it all? Just

754
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,599
go quickly through a couple of others
documentaries. I really liked Mother God.

755
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,840
I thought that was crazy. Mother
God. In the Garden are two HBO

756
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,599
ones that came out within like the
last month or so. The garden is

757
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:45,320
cult or commune. It takes this
clear cault mune. I'll say calt mune.

758
00:56:45,639 --> 00:56:52,360
That sir, spread on TikTok a
couple of no cult mune. It's

759
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,079
clearly oh clear, oh not queer. Yeah, although there is some of

760
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:59,599
that comes into it. Were naturally
it's a commune. It's really well done

761
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:06,599
and it's about you know, I
think digital natives discovering the outdoors in a

762
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:13,039
very unibomber way, speaking of the
unibomber but not quite not quite getting it.

763
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:15,519
Well, there's something there's something too
that like we see all the time,

764
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:20,320
all these different headlines that get recirculated
about gen z ditching smartphones for dumb

765
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,320
phones and touching grass and realizing the
sun exists, Like there is something to

766
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,360
be said about it. Yeah,
I mean there is, And you know

767
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,960
that's it's sort of the same thing
with the Mother God documentary. There are

768
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,159
a few documentaries I've seen, our
docuseries I've seen that are quite like Mother

769
00:57:34,159 --> 00:57:38,800
God on HBO. I did not
expect I just watched another similar one right

770
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,159
before it that I think was also
on HBO. I watched all of these

771
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:45,639
things and it so I didn't expect
it to be that compelling, and I

772
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:47,599
was only going to put it on
for like an episode or two. It

773
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:53,000
sucked me in. And there's something
same that reminds me of the pendulum swing

774
00:57:53,239 --> 00:57:58,599
in politics in a weird way,
but it's it's the same thing with culture

775
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:04,599
that you know we're going to see. You know, if you're going to

776
00:58:04,719 --> 00:58:07,159
rule four to three in the state
of Colorado that Donald Trump can't be on

777
00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:12,079
the presidential primary ballot unless the Supreme
Court is like, Okay, I guess

778
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:16,840
that's fine. And if you're gonna
hit him with half assed indictments, you

779
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:22,079
know, over Tiki Taki stuff and
not do that to Joe Biden or whatever

780
00:58:22,119 --> 00:58:25,039
else, I'm sorry, you're going
to get January sixth. And that doesn't

781
00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:28,559
mean no, you are, and
it doesn't mean that it's not the fault

782
00:58:28,639 --> 00:58:31,840
of the people who riot you.
People have the audacity to call Mia fed.

783
00:58:35,079 --> 00:58:44,760
That's a running joke in our office
that Sam's a fed because but no,

784
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:46,880
seriously, it doesn't mean that it
takes any agency or blame away from

785
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:51,519
the people who make bad decisions.
Like in the Cult of Mother God and

786
00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:53,440
the Cult of the Garden. These
are people that are making very bad decisions

787
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:58,639
and should know better, But so
too should the people that are creating a

788
00:58:58,639 --> 00:59:00,719
climate that makes it more and more
tempt to make bad, bad decisions.

789
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:06,039
If you actually aggravate people towards extremism, it's going to beget extremism. It's

790
00:59:06,119 --> 00:59:08,840
just it's causal the people in our
culture. And you see this in the

791
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,920
Garden, and you see this actually
with the Mother God, people who don't

792
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,880
believe in you know, doctors saying
that you shouldn't take all of the silver

793
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:22,639
nitrate, and it's actually a very
interesting example. They're just pounding silver nitrate

794
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:27,880
and the woman literally turns silver.
It's like they're like there's a scene in

795
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,719
the show where they're at a point
they're like, you know, all these

796
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:37,239
people they're mocking the critics of silver
solutions, silver nitrate, whatever it is,

797
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,199
and they're like, those are just
people who don't know what they're doing.

798
00:59:39,239 --> 00:59:40,960
Like, yes, if you don't
know what you're doing, you can

799
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,960
turn silver, of course, blah
blah blah. And then of course the

800
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,480
woman ends up turning silver because they
didn't know what they were doing, but

801
00:59:46,519 --> 00:59:52,559
they didn't trust anybody. They didn't
trust anybody in medical community and scientific community.

802
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:59,360
The same thing with the garden.
It's people who don't trust institutions and

803
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:04,000
listen. Mostly people now don't trust
institutions. Most people don't join cults.

804
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:08,320
But when institutions continue letting us down
and continue to lie to us, more

805
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,800
people are going to join cults.
So we have a proposal for you.

806
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:17,119
Oh boy, I'm starting a club. Record to the guy who lives on

807
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:23,159
the street corner. Actually, we're
a tracting, a following what it's some

808
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:29,000
called a cult. We have cool
late occasionally it might be worth looking into

809
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,800
it. It's a club. I
prefer the term club. Some call it

810
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:35,840
a cult. Semantics. Well,
on that note, all right, it

811
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,199
shows that you watched, you wanted
to go there. Honestly, I do

812
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:45,000
not have that wide of a TV
consumption. You watch an I watch.

813
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:47,880
I'm getting better about it. I'm
trying to get better about it. I

814
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:52,280
would highly recommend One Piece, which
is a fifteen hundred series, about fifteen

815
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:58,639
hundred episodes series about pirates. It's
dope, that's so quoted. Don't patronize.

816
01:01:00,239 --> 01:01:04,920
Uh, yes, I'm patronizing.
You, I'm just ignoring. Yes,

817
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:12,000
yes, yes, Invincible on Amazon
Prime. It's actually very popular series

818
01:01:12,039 --> 01:01:16,360
right now, although they took a
hiatus I think because the strike halted animation

819
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:22,599
for the second half of the second
season. It's an adaptation of Robert Kirkman's

820
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:27,679
comic with Image Comics of the same
name. Very good, very good animation.

821
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,840
They did kind of shoehorn some woke
stuff into it, with just you

822
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,760
know, like offhanded comments about race
and whatnot, privilege, et cetera.

823
01:01:35,519 --> 01:01:37,719
Very good. It's about, you
know, a reconstruction of like the superhero

824
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:45,760
Superman ideal. Would recommend what else
that is interesting? King of the Hill

825
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,239
obviously always going to rewatch that.
I haven't rewatched The Simpsons again. We're

826
01:01:50,239 --> 01:01:54,119
making we're making progress. Its growth. It's just a lot that's just a

827
01:01:54,159 --> 01:01:59,639
lot of that's just that's just you're
drowning in it, like, yeah,

828
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:04,199
that's like god, oh my god. Like this, by the way,

829
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,280
is why I took up so much
time, because you were like, I

830
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,119
don't really watch a lot of TV. Yeah, I mean, I didn't

831
01:02:08,119 --> 01:02:12,239
know it would be this sparse,
though I'm sure there's more. I just

832
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,280
have to think about it. One
of my other roommates, and I tried

833
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,360
watching the Cleveland Brown Show, but
like, that's just bad writing and took

834
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,840
King the Hills time slots, so
like, screw that. Most of my

835
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,880
media consumption is movies. Yeah,
no, but that's it. There are

836
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,320
two kinds of people in the world. There are people who are more movie

837
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,599
people and people who are more TV
people, And obviously both types of people

838
01:02:32,679 --> 01:02:37,719
watch both, but some people just
prioritize one over the other. True,

839
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,360
true, the duality of man again, we contain multitudes. There are two

840
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:45,159
wolves inside of you. Yeah,
anything else? Any other thoughts that you

841
01:02:45,199 --> 01:02:47,360
want to share that are not about
the unibomber and do not sound like there

842
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:52,159
are eruptural coaches of this manifest now, Oh, I got a dig deep

843
01:02:52,199 --> 01:02:54,559
for that. One. American Psycho
is a Christmas movie. Yeah, you

844
01:02:54,599 --> 01:03:00,360
did want to go on this tangent. It isn't that deep. Just it

845
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:06,440
takes place in the winter, it
ends in a Christmas party. I think

846
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:10,880
that, you know, it's a
criticism about you know, rabbit American capitalism,

847
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,199
cynical investment bankers who you know,
treat people with they're disposable. So

848
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,400
like a Christmas movie, make a
Christmas movie I sort of got a sort

849
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:25,119
of Deckenzian element. Yes, the
reading is that the reason of the season

850
01:03:25,559 --> 01:03:29,840
is not to chase women down a
hallway with the chainsaw. It's not to

851
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:34,960
act murder your coworkers, unless capitalism
pushes you to that brank true. True,

852
01:03:35,719 --> 01:03:37,719
But I don't think that's what Christ
would want us to do. There's

853
01:03:37,719 --> 01:03:42,559
a reason why Patrick Bateman is so
hollow inside. It's not because the schizophrenia.

854
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,880
It's not because the paranoia. It's
because he his life is void of

855
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:50,639
Christ. It's anti Nietzsche and that's
for sure doesn't make it a Christmas movie.

856
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:54,760
Well, these wearing reindeer antlers at
the end, so you know that,

857
01:03:55,199 --> 01:04:00,400
And that's part of the die Hard
question is like what And I'm find

858
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,320
the Diehard debate generally insufferable, although
I was late to die Hard and I

859
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:08,519
really like it. But what makes
something a Christmas movie? Like how big

860
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:12,360
of a role does Christmas have to
play in a Christmas movie for something to

861
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,880
be a Christmas movie? And by
the way, we talked about this briefly

862
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:16,400
in the Christmas episode, but or
in the movie episode. But man,

863
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,719
the Holdovers was good, like we
could we could do a whole podcast on

864
01:04:19,719 --> 01:04:26,039
that movie. Probably it was so
good, I mean, beautiful, beautiful

865
01:04:26,039 --> 01:04:30,320
movie, poignant, very very sad, but I loved the way that it

866
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,280
was made very different. Probably didn't
cost them a lot of money either,

867
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,360
except for Pauldry money. No,
Yeah, I tend to agree. It

868
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:45,639
was gorgeous American. Yeah, kind
of a reendomy of mad Men in a

869
01:04:45,679 --> 01:04:48,360
sense where it was a criticizing,
you know, wasp culture, founding stock,

870
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:54,079
et cetera. I didn't really like, I mean understand why. It's

871
01:04:54,159 --> 01:04:59,400
in line with Pauldymond's character that digs
at Christianity. He made the two kind

872
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,400
of towards like the I think the
second and third act. But it's compelling

873
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:10,440
you to, you know, reassess
why the holidays are important and reassess what

874
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,519
you value, you know, like
the they really are antagon only there are

875
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:19,840
antagonists, but like the shysters in
the movie are kids who are more obsessed

876
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:27,800
with status and like material. You're
vindicated because the people who are vindicated in

877
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,400
the movie are those who realize our
wealth are those around us and the people

878
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:35,559
in our lives who we cherish and
the centrality of fathers and families. Yeah.

879
01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:40,760
Absolutely, I think that's well said. But the role that Christmas plays

880
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:43,159
in the movie. I think for
a movie to be a Christmas movie has

881
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:45,639
to be essential. That is to
say, if the movie took place at

882
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:48,639
a different time of year, yeah, then And I think for American Psycho

883
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:53,119
that was the Christmas season at the
end is more of a trapping. It's

884
01:05:53,159 --> 01:05:57,440
more of like the it's a it's
an accent. But it could that movie

885
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:01,599
could It could have ended on in
the summer, or could have ended in

886
01:06:01,679 --> 01:06:05,679
January. It could have ended the
New Year's which might have been good touch.

887
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,719
Honestly, it might have been of
the New Year' I think it ended

888
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,079
the Christmas. I have to rewatch
it. It's Christmas, so I might

889
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:14,840
as well. It's a Christmas movie. So you're going on this tangent publicly

890
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:16,599
about how it's a Christmas movie and
now you don't even remember if it ends

891
01:06:16,599 --> 01:06:19,039
on Christmas or New Years. I
told you I was workshopping this bit.

892
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:24,000
It's not ready to fly, and
yet here you are here. It's fine,

893
01:06:24,119 --> 01:06:29,519
We're going to make it work.
If it ends in a Christmas party,

894
01:06:29,679 --> 01:06:39,559
it's because it's compelling him to find
Christ. I'll get back to next

895
01:06:39,639 --> 01:06:43,280
year and next year's Christmas episodes.
I got it down. But yeah,

896
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,880
I mean, Brett Easton Ellis is
obviously in the same way we were talking

897
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:51,960
about Pallia earlier, you know,
not necessarily conservative, although David Mammont is

898
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:56,960
pretty who's been on this podcast,
is pretty clearly conservative at this point.

899
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,599
And maybe Brett E. Sston Ellis. I mean, I don't know.

900
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:05,360
He's obviously at least polyasku. He's
reactionary in a lot of regards, I

901
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:10,599
think, but not certainly not like
he's not a mega booster well in conservatism

902
01:07:10,639 --> 01:07:14,239
and reactionary politics are not the same
thing. He never should be. But

903
01:07:14,679 --> 01:07:19,920
okay, there's obviously always going to
be overlap, just by the definition of

904
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:25,199
both terms. On that note,
Sam, gosh, that was so why

905
01:07:25,199 --> 01:07:30,000
did I let you do that?
What the American psycho? We believe in

906
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:33,039
free speech here? Yeah. Well, Merry Christmas, folks, it's all

907
01:07:33,039 --> 01:07:39,280
I got. Happy New Year,
Yeah, Happy New Year or Merry Christmas

908
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:44,159
to Patrick Bateman. We don't know
which fair, all right, Sam mangled

909
01:07:44,239 --> 01:07:45,840
Lennet, thank you so much for
joining us. Thanks for having Merry Christmas,

910
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,559
folks. You've been listening to another
edition of the Federalist ra a New

911
01:07:48,559 --> 01:07:51,440
Hour. Memily Tashinski, culture editor
here at The Federalist. We'll be back

912
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,800
soon with more. Until then,
be lovers of freedom and anxious for the

913
01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:04,199
fray. You are wrong. Love,