And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Rangdalschampars incident. It doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. It's so gothic. Garie Sorcier really standing in the cleary. He
turned over to my father, held his hand, and he looked in his
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark
Matter Radio Network. Please remember to visit the website podcastufo dot com for past
episodes, blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live
in our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active
Facebook page. Hello, this is Martin willis your host of podcast UFO,
And in just a couple of minutes, Alejandro Rojas will be joining me for
the news. Andy claims he has a surprise guest to join in. I
have no idea who it is. It's kind of exciting. Actually, our
guest this evening is doctor David Jacobs, and he'll be talking about his new
book Walking among us the alien plan to control humanity, and I'm sure we're
going to be talking about a lot of other things as well. It's Veterans
Day here in the US. It's Veterans Day, and if you are a
veteran, we want to thank you for your service, your intentions, and
your sacrifices to keep us safe. Thanks Veterans. I want to once again
thank Sam Bosell who's been helping us out with the supporter platform. He's now
done something for our chatroom which will pop up automatically in all of our web
pages right before the show and I'll go away right after the show. Thank
you, Sam. And speaking of support, if you want to find out
how to do that, you can check us out right on PODCASTDFO dot com.
And why you're there jumping the chatroom. I mentioned a while back that
a bunch of people offered to do graphics for our new podcast, UFO T
shirts. I think there was about thirteen people contacting me. Well, we
got four of those people out of thirteen that actually presented some graphics. So
if you'd like to go to our website right on our sidebar, you will
see you can get to that page to vote. We need you to vote.
We have two weeks left for anyone to cast their vote on what graphic
you want for a T shirt. So that's right on the show notes or
right on our sidebar. You can see how to get there. And I
think that's just about it. So that closes, by the way, November
eighteenth, and that's enough for me. So Alejandro and your mystery guests,
how are you? I'm doing good? How are you good? Good?
Do you want to bring on the mystery guest? Now it's David Jacobs,
just kidding, actually though he is speaking at the UFOCON grace. He is,
so you should spend a lot of your interview with him talking about the
UFO Congress and how exciting it is that he's speaking there and stuff like that.
All right, I might know. Actually I'll let our guests introduce himself.
All right, Hello guest. Hello, This is Honold Arnold. Hi,
Arnold? How well? Are you not bad? Arnold? No?
Actually? Got yeah? My name is this Ruben Judiocti from oh northern California.
How are you? Hey? How are you doing Ruben? Yes,
Ruben's been on the show, Alejandro, Oh he has good Yes, yeah,
okay for a while. That's right. It has Yeah, I think
it was last year or so. Ruben, you joined me with your partner.
You've written some books with him. His name is who is mister?
That's right? Yeah? Yeah, so KNOWE and Ruben will be speaking at
the Travis Walton conference this weekend. And so now he came in or Ruben
came in today, No, he comes in tomorrow and then I'll be driving
them out there. So that's gonna be a lot of fun. So that's
why Ruben's here. And I figured since he was in the office and I
was doing the interview, would be kind of fun if he joined us for
the news. Absolutely. Now that's the fortieth anniversary is tomorrow for the Travis
Walton and the Fire sky our Skyfire what's the name? Yeah, the Skyfire
Summit, Yeah, exactly. And tomorrow is the fortieth anniversary of the event,
and Ruben and I and others will be at the location where it happened
at dusk, which is when it happened, and we possibly make it beamed
by a ship and taken away. Yeah, I'm gonna push I'm gonna push
Ruben in the way, and yeah, he's They're all gonna leave me.
Well, a few weeks ago I had I had Michael Shermern and he totally,
uh, he just came out and said that Travis was lying. The
whole thing was a hoax, and he had had to do with him getting
a paycheck for work that wasn't completed. So ridiculous that they make such an
assumption. And you know, Travis speaks to that theory that they had to
get a paycheck, and he talks about how, you know, them creating
this elaborate hoax would not get them out of the work that they had to
do. So if you asked Travis about it, you know, the theory
just doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Well I didn't agree with him at
all on that, and yeah, I stood up for Travis. But because
I really truly believe I believe that story. I believe Travis. You know,
he's I've talked to him I many times about it, and it's just
you know, it's well, you know what solid one if you asked me,
really cool is that? And you know what would be great, Actually
you're going to be talking to David Jacobs ask him his theory about as well,
because I don't know what it is. I think it'd be interesting to
hear what he thinks about it, especially given his perspective. But what's really
been fascinating with you know, my girlfriend has been putting together this event and
over the years I've worked with these witnesses, and you know, the witnesses
kind of bigger back and forth almost like brothers, like people have known each
other their entire life, but they don't bigger about what happened or if anything
happened, and they all individually are dealing with what happened. One of them
his email address is ken Ufo. And because this event, all of them
have trands or they have different perceptions about what happened to them, but they
don't, you know, none of them deny what happened, and you can
tell it's had an effect on each of them differently. And as much as
they fight, you know, I think with as much has gone on through
the years, one of them would have said, oh, he's lying,
that person is lying. But that's not the case, you know, Uh,
it's it even when they have disagreements, and these are not like sophisticated
people. I would say, these aren't you know, people who are out
there promoting themselves like some of the other people in this field who you know,
you question their motives. These are just regular guys, you know,
living their lives. And I have not seen any indication working with any of
these guys that that has given me any doubt. And that's what's kind of
fun too, is that we're going to have more of the witnesses that have
than have ever been together this weekend. And the police officer who was the
first on the scene and you know what, Karen, you know my girlfriend
is the one who got ahold of him and got him there. Travis and
none of the guys know what he's even going to say, and they're not
against him coming. They're like, great, you know, that would be
great to hear what he has to say. So they don't even know.
He could just say, oh, this was a hoax and these guys were
full of it. They don't even know. And I think that speaks to
how that they're not afraid of anybody coming and talking about their opinion or their
experience with the event. Wow, that's great. If I could, yeah
make a point. I've known Travis now for for for a while and I've
had a chance to really get to know him at a number of our conferences
where he was our features guest speaker, and the thing that always stand out
for me, of course, you know he's just a one heck of a
humble guy, you know, a straight shooter. But the other thing I
he when the question is asked, well, what would you do if this
happened to you again? And he said, I won't tell anybody. Hmmm.
He says, I would want to want to go through what I had
to go through. But but obviously, you know he's gone through so much
over the years, and his mission is to make sure that the story is
told correctly and rather than having other people interpret and or misrepresent his story.
So tomorrow is going to be really awesome and the rest of the week and
Alejandro and Karen it worked very hard along with Travis and a number of other
people who put this conference together. So it'd being the fourth anniversary, this
is going to be a very special event. Karen's done an amazing job.
Yes, I didn't realize that that Karen was your Karen. Yeah, Mike,
Karen, yeah, huh. Because we had a conversation getting some people
speaking of Lee Spiegel, one of them for one to pipe up and talk
about the conference coming up tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, well great. Did
you have any news or I do every week? I got news bita,
all right, okay, so the news this week. This one's kind of
fun because it is story written by Roger marsh from Moufon for a site,
and this was about a Texas siting that included a photograph where these people said
they saw something bright. They took a picture that the kid in the car
took the picture, and then in the picture there's kind of this cylindrical object
that turned up so kind of a weird photo. It's kind of cool because
San Antonio newspaper picked up this story and wrote about it today, some people
have been debating. One person said they think it looks like a road sign
that is blurred from motion blur. I don't know that I necessarily see that.
It does kind of look like it's an object that might be affected by
motion blur, but it's not like apparently obvious what this might be. So
it'd be great if your listeners could look at that and if anybody can tell,
what do you think Ruben of that picture? To tell it's hard to
tell an image faded out image above us. It's do you determine if it's
closer to the to the street or if it's far off at a distance.
Yeah, it's hard to tell even how close to the object they are.
But kind of an interesting picture. Now, is this the one where it's
a it's looking vertical like a cylindrical Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yes,
that is really an interesting picture and that will be on our show notes and
well as well as link to Open Minds dot tv for the whole story.
It is kind of funny. Ruberenet is pointing below the pictures is another giant
cylindrical object. But that's a giant rolled up SOD or I think it's hay
or sod. Actually, I think it's SOD and still has taken where in
Texas? This is in uh Frisco, Frisco, getting frisky and Frisco.
So we have unidentified flying sod. Is that what you're trying to say?
Yeah, well it's not flying. We have identified stagnant laying their side.
Okay, nothing, but we do have another one. This is a video
from California. And this one's kind of strange, and I'll play this for
Ruben's sake. I don't know if you saw this one. Have Martin,
but it's the video is not that great because it seems like I don't know
what's going on with the camera here, but it's just these lights in the
sky. He actually took three videos and we have a on a site the
best out of the three. But these lights kind of turning on and off.
They're multi colored and just kind of weird. The witness says he thinks
that these lights were interacting with each other, that perhaps one of them beamed
one of the others. He thinks, you know, maybe they were battling
up there or something. I don't know about that because they do most of
the time look like they're in place, but they do turn on and off
and they are different colors. So kind of an interesting video there from Cashpro
Valley, California. So that's right next door to where I live. Where
do you live at I'll live in Hayward. Oh yeah, so I know
where that is. Casher Valley is right next door. We've gotten some other
footages from other witnesses in the past in that area there. It's definitely yeah,
and this is a fun case just to be follow up with one of
our investigators, and in fact, I think, let me see usually Roger
will put in the story and I can't remember on this one. If it
was investigated, you probably wouldn't know who it was. Call me the county.
The state section director, Kim investigated it and closed it as an unknown
Okay. Kim comes from San Francisco area, which is near where you are.
Yes, we're right here in the San Francisco Bay area. So this
is We have a several investigators that live in Kim's one of them. Are
you still you were a section director now to the state director for Northern California,
and we have an assistant state director and a chief investigator, and we
cover approximately forty five counties just in Northern California alone, and in Southern California
has about thirteen counties. Now, we tend to come and as number one
usually every month in terms of how many cases have been reported, but also
there's other lot of sightings going on across the country and other parts of the
world. But Texas tends to be number two, and then we get Florida,
maybe sometimes in Michigan, then in Colorado, and then a number of
other states. So each month we get a deluge of cases and it's hard
to keep up Yeah, Ruben, you mentioned you know, Alameda County,
and it just made me think of Alameda Island out there where it used to
be an air base. Yeah, and was there ever any sightings around that
base? Did you ever hear any stories about that? Yes? Actually,
well, when you along the bay, we've received reports from motorists that are
driving on the San Francisco Bay Bridge, for example, where they've seen strange
objects along. Although now Alameda is no longer an air base, right,
and now it's a lot of development there, but we get interested. Interestingly,
we've gotten a number of reports of objects out there or mostly orbs out
there in the out there by Golden Gate also, and I think normally sometimes
when we have Fleet Week now that's where the Blue Angels will perform, right,
We've had a couple of occasions where we've had people who submitted their photographs
to us where they actually captured an object real close to the Blue Angel formation
and that's a new fly zone. Normally when they perform, they close down
everything around a five mile radius, but it's really interesting when they're able to
capture someone something. And so some of these reports we had they were determined
as unknown. Wow. Interesting, Well, running a little late here,
but I want to thank you very much. Reuben. It's great to talk
to you. Same here, marn thank you and thanks for joining us for
the news. And Alejandro, thanks and we'll be talking to you next week.
All right, thank you, talk to you next week. All right,
everyone, So hanging there for the quick music break and we'll be right
back with David Jacobs. Welcome to the show. David, thank you for
having me. Yes, and last time you were on, we were just
talking when we did the sound check. That was a long time ago.
It was I think I think I said it was two thousand and thirteen,
right, you said twenty twelve. Twenty twelve. Wow, So anyway,
you were on way back then. Most people, I would say, probably
everyone listening right now knows who you are. But this podcast does go international.
So can you just quickly give your background? And I'm kind of fascinated
because I know that you were into UFO history too at one time, So
yes, you'd like me to do that now? Yeah, if you don't
mind, just took you know, kind of a quick in a nutshell your
background. How you get interested in all that? Well? I got interested
in the UFO phenomenon in the mid nineteen sixties, around sixty five sixty six,
and that summer I went to my wife and I went to Madison,
Wisconsin from UCLA where we were at for graduate school, and I became extremely
interested in it there two and I joined national UFO groups, and I started
reading UFO magazines, and I became a quote field investigator end quote, and
ran around in interviewing people and all the rest of that sort of thing.
And I wound up writing my doctoral dissertation in Wisconsin on the controversy over Unidentified
flying Objects, and I just sort of stuck with it after that. In
nineteen eighty two, I met Bud Hopkins for the first time and he introduced
me to the abduction phenomenon, which I didn't have a whole lot of interest
in beforehand. And in nineteen eighty six, four years later, I started
doing my own hypnosis with abductees. And consequently, here we are, and
you've written several books. Well, I've published five. The first one was
my dissertation with an added chapter in it more research. The second one,
it was called the UFO Controversy in America, published by Indiana University Press,
and then the second one was called Secret Life, which came out ninety two,
which was about abductions. And then five years later The Threat came out,
which was also about abductions. Then I published an edited book called the
UFOs and Abductions, Challenging the Borders of Knowledge and with ten people who were
very involved with the subject, including one sort of debunker, and that was
published by the University Press of Kansas. And then my last book, and
it's been a long time because I had that was that was published in two
year, two thousand. Here it is fifteen years later, and I've got
another book walking among us. Ah, So we're going to talk about that.
Just to let you know, we have a couple of things this live
show. We have a call in number for the listener out there, if
you're listening live six three nine sixty seven four to oh three oh. We
also have a chat room. Some questions were already piling in there a minute
ago, and I will get to those. But let's first talk about your
book. Why did it take you so long to write another book? Well,
I was hearing the same things. I was continuing to do loads and
loads of UFO research, and starting in two thousand and five, I began
to hear things that were different than what I'd heard before, and it was
a two thousand and three now that I think about two thousand and three,
I'm sorry. And I waited for other people to say the same things,
and pretty soon more and more people were saying the same things without knowing about
the others. And I eventually decided that this will be sort of an ending
of my abduction career type book. That is to say, once I wrote
what I knew now, once I wrote it up, I might be able
to just do what my life's ambition is, which is to watch television all
the time. But I couldn't get the book published, just couldn't get it.
Tried for several years, couldn't get a published, couldn't get it published.
And this was starting around nine, around two thousand and eight or so.
And finally I found the press who was willing to do it. And
so it took fifteen years of research but also searching for a publisher. Wow,
now did you go back to the publishers of your other four books?
Oh? Yeah, Well, you can't publish a book by yourself. You
must have an agent. And that's what she did. She went back to
Simon and Schuster. And the problem with that that happened to Simon and Schuster
was that I, uh, I had this book, the threat. They
had actually requested the book, and it's a good book. It holds up
A Secret Life, has a has flaws in it now that I realized,
no know more about the subject, but the threat is very good. It's
pretty solid all the way through. And and so everything was fine. Everything
was great, and they put me on a book tour, let's say done,
was for a Secret Life. And the first place I went with CNN,
and then I went to another the next day, another outlet of some
sort, and then we flew to San France. We were going to fly
to San Francisco, or or we did fly to San Francisco to do a
show. And and then basically it came to a halting screech when the Monica
Lewinsky story broke and I was cancer on virtually every show that they had set
up. And that was the end of the book tour. So that didn't
only affect the White House. That affected you as well. It was the
White House and so so in other words, I never made up the advance
that they gave me. I'm still paying it out, so to speak.
I don't make many any royalties on the book. It all goes for the
advance. I wanted to say, also, just for the listener out there,
the music that I just played in this intro, it's called Hybrids among
Us, and that is by Kerry Lloyd Whitehouse, who wrote this music and
dedicated it to Andy Fleming, who used to be on this show. And
so that music is available also, he said anyone can download it and use
it. And that's where down our sidebar and the chat room was wondering why
I wasn't active just a few minutes ago, and that is I just want
to apologize to everyone because I just mentioned that we have our T shirt graphic
contest, and while I was trying madly just a few minutes ago to get
a voting poll in there, I deleted the whole thing. So all the
T shirt graphics are gone. Please check back in a couple of sayes when
I get that straightened out. Sorry about that, all right, So that's
enough housekeeping. And so, David, you said that you started your interest
in the abductions all the way back in nineteen eighty six. Is that what
I heard in eighty two. In eighty two I got when I met Bud
Hopkins. He introduced me to I mean, I knew about Bunnie and Betty
Hill, and I read the Andreas and Affair and some other stuff, but
it just didn't seem all that convincing to me. And the problem with abductions
to say they come straight out of people's brains, as opposed to UFOs,
where you can see something you might be mistaken, but there's ways of measuring
it. There's radar, there's film, there's there's all sorts of things that
that we know about you that we know for evidence about UFOs, And with
abductions, it's mental or it's happening. There's nothing in the middle. You
can't be mistaken about something. You're either making it up whether you know it
or not, or it's or it's happening in reality one of the two.
So I was conservative and I went for the making it up aspect of it,
even though Barney Betty Hill were different. They were two different people.
But one case like that does not a world's make you know, you have
to wait for others of the same kind. And I was much more comfortable
with the UFOs tell you the truth. But Hopkins showed me how he had
me sit in on sessions with him that he was saying I had no secessions.
And he introduced me to abductees because I had never met one before,
and he was extremely gracious and very kind and very giving in terms of what
he was doing, and it was obvious to me that he was onto something.
I remember I was director of the American Studies Program a temple at that
time, and I came back after visiting. Turns out that I had gone
on my wife and I and our baby had gone on vacation in exactly the
same spot that Bud Hopkins owns a house, and it's there for the whole
summer. That's in Wellfleet and Massachusetts on Cape Cod. And I came back
from seeing Bud up in well Fleet, and I told Alan Heinik, who
was a friend of mine and the dean of Abduction of a UFO researchers the
country and former advisors to the Air Force for UFOs from nineteen forty eight to
nineteen sixty nine, and I told him that this guy, Bud Hopkins,
I think what was onto something that that I was impressed by what he was
showing me and telling me and all that. And Alan said, no,
no, stay away from that, David, stay away from that stuff.
He just stick with UFOs. Don't go near that abduction and stuff. I
said, I don't know, Ellen, I think he's got it something here.
This is this is a and Alan, you know, who, reiterated
that that was just not the way to go. He he just it wasn't
in his in his world, you know. But I should have actually just
taken his advice and I would have been a happy person for the rest of
my life. But I didn't, and and so I got ensnared in the
abduction phenomenon. Yeah, a couple of things you just mentioned a minute that
it all comes from the brain. Are there any cases that you're aware of
where there was witnesses to an abduction that? Oh? Total bystanders. Oh,
absolutely, there are cases like that. But the most famous one was
the Linda Cortiel case. But Hopkins wrote a book about called Witnessed where I
can't remember, I think it was twenty four to twenty nine. It was
something like that, witnesses to the actual event or to the matter surrounding the
events. Now, I was contacted by someone that told me that there was
new evidence or something that came up that that was a hoax. Do you
know anything about that? Yeah, yes I do. It's not a hoax.
Okay, sign out. Linda Cartil very well, and I knew but
and I know how hard he worked interviewing as many human beings as he could
possibly get. And there's a lot of characters around who who really liked tearing
people down. And you got to be very careful because the Linda Cartill cases
is a very good case and a very strong case once you understand sort of
everything that happens. Now, I remember that they float through the wall.
There's some type of dignitary in a limo or something that witnesses. Am I
getting the right one? Yeah, that's the one. Actually, the initial
aspect of it was people in their cars on the Booklym Bridge saw Linda flying
out her window from a she lives in a high rise apartment in New York
City, and they there was a UFO and there was three aliens with her,
and there were people who were staring at this with their jaws open from
their cars. And one of them wrote to Bud saying, this is what
she had seen and Bud had already on a session on that incident, but
he hadn't dug very deeply into it. It just sort of happened. Then
she described what happened to her onboard the UFO, and this and that,
and nobody knew that, nobody this is unknown material. And suddenly this woman
writes him and says, on this date in nineteen eighty nine, I saw
some woman come and flying out of a window with three aliens into a UFO.
And that was That was Linda, and she was she correctly identified the
building and what she had seen at the time and the rest of that stuff.
And she said, she said to Bud the car she could hear people
screaming in the cars behind her. Wow, that little detail always stuck in
my mind. This is just this woman who lives, I guess in upstate
New York and was there at the time. And he then began to uncover
other aspects of it. And he spent an enormous amount of time running down
leads and contacting people and making sure his case was solid and all the rest
of that. And it was. And I've known Linda for years and years
and years and years. She is not the kind of a person who is
going to invent a hoax and have over twenty five people or whatever it was,
as part of this hoax, including these people who witnessed this on the
ground, one of whom was a major international figure, and all that you
just this. This would take a team of people working for like for a
movie for a year to get all this just right. And this is not
just not possible for one person to do, to pull all these things,
and not a single person coming forward and saying, well, you know Linda
that told me to do this, and she sent me one hundred dollars bill
or something like that. Nothing like that ever, ever, ever came about.
Sure, now I noticed, I can hear a little bit of feedback
if you wouldn't mind turning down your volume just a little bit. Okay,
there's a question up on the message board for you, says for doctor Jacobs,
is there other current researchers you have collaborated with that share your hybrid alien
agenda theory? And in parentheses in parentheses he mentions that you mentioned deceased researchers
such as Bud Hopkins. Is there anyone living? Yeah, I don't know.
There's only a handful of serious researchers in this country. It's absolutely awful.
There's Yvonne Smith in l A. And there's Kathy Martin in Florida and
Jed Turnbull in New York City, and uh there's a few others. But
but it's not like there's there's hundreds of them out there and just waiting for
people to to tell them things. And uh, it's it's considered. It's
worse now. And we used to have more researchers. Uh. There was
used to be John mac you know, and of course there was Bud and
and there were there were others as well who went on to having a life
as I just stuck with with the abduction phenomenon. And I guess that Yvan
would be closest to me. And but I've had a tremendous advantage over almost
anybody and everybody because I retired from Temple univers See in twenty eleven. But
before that, I could spend a lot of time with abductees. I could
I taught on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday or a Tuesday Thursday schedule.
So if I taught on a Tuesday Thursday schedule, I could have time on
Monday, Wednesday Friday in my home office to work with abductees. I would
spend yeah, between four and five hours with each one of them, an
hour talking in the beginning, a couple of hours of a hypnosis, and
then an hour of talking at the end, et cetera. And they could
come as many times as they wanted. Neither but nor I ever charged any
money for this. And I worked with people sometimes for decades, so I
could see change over time, and I could understand how this, how the
operation of this abduction phenomenon was going, and I learned how to do a
kind of questioning that I is chronological and logical. Nothing is taken for granted.
Everything is sort of logical. Now, I shouldn't say nothing is taken
for granted, because if I'm working with somebody for the fortieth time, then
when she says to me, well, I got up on a table,
and do I have to go through all what they did on the table,
and I'll say no, because I've already heard hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
cases of people's on table. I know what they do, and I've heard
her many times and know what they do. So we'll go on to other
things I but I became very much aware of change over time. Hey on,
just keep that thought just one second. I just want to address this
up. A caller person just tried to call in. Please be patient.
I can't always answer right away. So if you try to call in and
I couldn't answer, please do try to call in and just be patient.
I'll get right to you as soon as I can. Okay, keep going
if you would. Well, the point is is that that I was fortunate
to have the time and people could come as many times as they wanted to.
They could, they could stop. A lot of them stopped coming after
one session. That was it. And and but there's one person, for
example, named Karen Morgan who's in my new book, and she's in Secret
Life, she's in The Threat, and she's in my new book, and
each one you can see the change over time in that in those and so
I could spend a lot of time with him, and and it was different
than just having let's just say, it's a lot of time for two hours,
and a lot of people who were having the therapist do this, and
you know, they can only afford so much time. And they get a
person and they asked a bunch of questions, this and this and that and
that it's time to go. Now they have to talk to the person first,
and they have to talk to the person afterwards too, you know.
So so there's and it's a different sort of I don't know environment with me.
I have a home office on all that. So I was extremely fortunate,
extremely fortunate. And my wife bore everything with dignity. We had been
married and my wife died earlier this year, but we had been married for
fifty one years, so she was in on everything, and she she was
was perfectly fine with my spending all my time with with abduction people with abductees.
You know. So everything just sort of fell into place. Everything everything
was was good for me in terms of doing this research. And the same
thing with Bud from anyway, he was he was an artist. He had
time that he could put aside for doing abduction research. Now here's the problem.
Now, supposing somebody young comes along and he wants to be an abduction
researcher and he wants to do hypnosis of abductees, and he's or she is,
that's just a twenty three. The question is is he going to be
able to do significant experience investigations with people who are sixty three. Are they
going to tell him the intimate details of their personal life, including sexual and
reproductive material that happens on board to a twenty three year old, to a
kid who's sitting there. The answer is that's been tried and it doesn't work,
and so you have to get somebody who's older, let's just say,
in their forties, who can do this kind of work because it is intimate
and it's it relates to people's entire lives. But when in person is forty,
they already have a career. They're a nine to five worker or nine
to twelve as the case may be. These days at night, you know,
the people work longer and harder now than ever before, and they're married,
they have kids, and you know, it's they can't go through the
training it takes to become an abduction investigator and then spend four or five hours
several times a week with somebody. It's just it's very, very very difficult
to get anybody to do this and to do it right. That's the problem,
right, first of all, I want to say, and also up
in the message board as well, we're sorry to hear about your wife,
your loss. Oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah. Now there
is a question up going back to Linda. How do you say her last
name? Courtiller Cartillo? Yeah, yeah, someone wanted to know, do
you know what motive Bud Hopkins' ex wife said the reason Linda Cortil was a
fraud? I know I read certain things that Bud Hopkins' wife, ex wife
said, and this was a wife that he had divorced before he died,
and they were not let's just say, I've read a few things too.
Yeah, well, so I know what you're talking about. They didn't part
on such good terms. They did not part on good terms, and Carol
sort of went on a campaign to discredit him. And if you knew anything
about Bud Hopkins or had ever met him, you would realize how intelligent,
gracious, and kind he was. And there was not a crooked bone in
his body. I will say that he was a straight shooter. He did
uncover a plot to sort of discredit him, a guy who was who was
lying to him, and uh and and he did his due diligence and he
the guy had told him some stories and he checked him out and they were
not true. And he found someone and you know, it happens that way.
He worked with a lot more people than I worked with, But then
again, I worked with people for longer periods of time. And although with
Linda, he worked with Linda for a long time. And Linda, Uh,
I'm not exactly sure what she was going through because she did a sort
of scatter gun thing that there was this was wrong and that was wrong,
and his all sorts of other things he did was wrong. I don't agree
with her, but I will say this for myself. There is no you
have to learn how to do this on the fly. There's no book that
shows you exactly how to do hypnosis with abductees. Everything is new as it
comes along, not everything, but you're you're constantly seeing new things and and
you have to make the decision. It's as correct as it not correct and
all that. Uh, But when you do it, you're you're you're you're
making new pathways, You're clearing the trail for other people to come along and
also do it. And that's what that's what Bud did, and I hope
that's what I'm doing as well. But but the Linda Cartiel case, UH
might have an oddity here and an oddity there. But on the whole,
this is a good, strong case. As I said, I've known Linda
for her for many, many years. I also would question why Bud would
spend so much time with her if she was a fraud. He wouldn't.
I mean, that wouldn't make any sense to me. He would have detected
it right away. Uh. And there's but but that Bud was extremely smart
and that just would not have happened. It's not possible for well, anything
is possible, but it's not possible in my opinion, that that that would
have happened with Linda. Linda is not a hoaxer. She is. She
didn't There was no reason to be a hoaxer. There was nothing in it
for her other than the event that happened, along with a whole bunch of
other events that happened that nobody knows about. There she's an abductee, it's
happened all her life. And uh and there, there's there's nothing make everything
makes sense if she's an abductee and had this experience. And nothing makes sense
if she's an abductee and didn't have this experience. Right. Just again,
someone tried to call in and I missed you. If you're listening and trying
to call in, please be patient because a little behind the scenes here,
I have different computers that I'm looking at ones in a chat room on one
side, and then the phone calls on another side. So I don't want
to miss your call. You can call again if you would. Let's see
there was another question up on the board. But excuse me. One of
the things they always you always hear and I always wonder about, is people
always say they accuse people that do regression of leading the person and what do
you what do you say I have to say about that? Right? Well,
almost everybody who comes to me knows two things. Number One, they
don't want to be led by the hipists to think that they're a teapot or
a chicken or something like that. And they don't want to pick up things
in popular culture and impair them back to me as if it happened to them.
They're all aware of that. This is not our cane information, you
know what I mean. This is just everybody knows that a hypnotist can make
people do things that they don't realize they're doing, and all that. Well,
what I do is simple relaxation, techniques, and Bud learned them from
a psychologist who he worked with originally who did the hypnosis, and then I
learned them from Bud. And it's just muscle relaxation and then a little bit
of deepening. And then I just asked questions. And people will say to
me, David, I don't think I'm hypnotized, and I'll say, it
doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Just just close your eyes, lay back
down, and it doesn't matter. And I started asking questions, and how
am I do a tiny bit of all come from three to one and you
feel more and more relized something like that, and that'll be it, and
that's it. And they know they say I gotta go to the bathroom.
I say, okay, fine, go go go to the bathroom and lay
back down, and I just continue questioning, and then we'll have a discussion
about something that relates to it during the session, and then I'll just continue
on with my questioning. It's not like they're in a trance and they don't
know what they're saying or what they're doing, or they're thinking to themselves,
especially in the first session, they're thinking to themselves, this is the dumbest
question I ever heard of my life? Should I even give this guy the
benefit of an answer. That's what they're thinking. And they're so worried about
hypnosis. And I before some of them don't get sleep. I have to
warn them about this beforehand. After they do their first session with me,
it never ever occurs to them to think about hypnosis as something to fear.
Ever again, just once they realize they're in total and complete control, they're
thinking about the questions. They're thinking about whether that's our correct question or not,
and this and that and and they realize that it's just trying to dip
into these memories that are hidden beneath the surface. It's probably a short circuiting
of the of the too many statins in my brain. I have no memory
left anymore of your short term memory. Short term memory cannot dig into the
other long term memories. Uh. When the when the event is probably laid
down, I think, I guess, I surmise, Okay, just switching
gears here for just a minute. And that is so. Travis Walton probably
wasn't your average abduct he he claims himself that he thinks it was almost more
or less like a rescue mission. Once he was apped with that beam.
But I question, Alejandro Rojas asked earlier on in the news, was what
does David Jacobs think of the Travis Walton case. Well, Travis is a
friend of mine and I've known him for many years, and he's an extremely
intelligent and extremely thoughtful person. I agree with you, and he's if he
is an abductee, and I think he is, that means that he automatically
has had abduction experiences since since he was a young child, and they're probably
continuing now because that's what happens basically with all abductees. It's intergenerational. You're
an abductee because your mother or your father was an abductee, and then you
become an abductee. Then if you get married and have kids, they become
abductees. Hang on a second, I have to get an animal off my
lap. Okay, Carrie later, later, later, I she'll purr into
the microphone. That's the problem. So the problem is that he's he only
remembered twenty minutes of a five day event and has not wanted to do hypnosis
on that event or any other events that he might have had, and so
and so we really don't know what happened to him in essence on board the
UFO, and I know that he's come up, he's been trying to make
sense of it, and he's come up with his own ideas about how they
helped him or whatever or whatever it was. But that's not what other other
people say. And I examined the five day event once with a woman and
known as Her name is al Alison Reid, and I have I have twenty
four hours, I guess of testimony that eight from that five day event,
she came I think for eight three hour sessions of hypnosis just describing what happened
to her. And that's the way it kind of has to be when you're
gone for five days. And so not only not only her, but her
husband and her child as well. And there were certain aspects of their lives
at that time where nobody missed them. They had just moved to Florida or
someplace, they did not have jobs yet, they were not set up yet,
and so and they were all taken at that time and for five days,
and nobody knew that they were gone. So the fact is, though
that that Travis's case was astounding because it was witnessed at least there was a
witnessing of a UFO flashing a light at at Travis and then him falling backwards
and all that, and and then not being there when when people you know,
charged off on their truck as worker fellow workers and then came back looking
for him, and then and he wasn't there, but they saw a UFO
in conversation so to speak with him. And that's good enough. That's a
witnessed event. And so uh. And once again, Travis is not a
person who lies or anything like that. He's not He's not a Charlottan.
But he has built, you know, these ideas that he thinks makes sense
to him. But maybe perhaps don't. Don't aren't the same as what everybody
else is saying because they know more about their own backgrounds. Yeah, I
would think that in Travis's case, that was a one off situation under the
circumstances that he wasn't abducted since childhood. I mean, when I asked him
about that, he said, no, that was the only time that he
was aware of. Are you thinking that he may have been abducted and not
realize it. Well, if that were the case, that would be the
first time we've ever heard of anybody being abducted, especially for five days,
and it was the only time ever. But you have to remember that most
abductees, and I'm going to guess here, maybe ninety to ninety five percent
of them do not know that they're abductees. This is a clandestine phenomenon.
It is secret, and the way in which you start secrecy is you keep
a secret from the person that had happened to So most people do not know
that they're abductees. Who are abductees, in other words, they might lead
unusual lives. They see angels, they see devils, demons, whatever they
see in their bedroom or in their living room or whatever. They see dead
people who have come back to say goodbye to them or whatever. Uh.
They they travel on the astral plane. One guy was telling me, you
travel on the astral plane. The funniest thing was is he could see all
the leaves and dirt and stuff that had gotten into his gutters on top of
his roof. And I thought to myself, if you're traveling on the astral
plane, that would be an interesting memory to have, you know, how
you got to clean your gutters? But uh so uh and personality, Yeah,
So the point is though that uh, every single abductee I have worked
with, and I think probably everyone that but has worked on uh have have
had these experiences since they were children and will continue into old age. It
stops somewhere in old age. We don't see a whole lot of people who
are eighty years old. Let's just say on board a UFO. That is
when when people are abducted into a larger UFO, they sit in a room,
a circular room and wear closed or removed, and they wait their turn
to be processed for whatever they're going to have to be doing. And I'll
ask them, well, are there you know men and women there and they'll
say yes. I say you see any children know? And sometimes yes,
and most of the time no, and and uh and they'll sometimes you know,
remember uh, somebody who was abducted or whatever. But the fact is
though that uh, all that can easily be forgotten. Uh And and as
soon as they leave, uh uh, you know it's gone from their memory.
But at least I asked them sometimes, do you see anybody who's really
really old? And they almost always say no. Wow, So we think
it stops somewhere an old age somewhere in old age, but we can't be
sure. We don't really know. It's just as baffling as the whole rest
of it. Someone wanted to know on the message board. Do you share
your techniques with others that are looking to get into this process? Yes?
But and I put together a packet of materials about one hundred years ago that
I still send out to people if they ask for it. But my next
book will be how to do Hypnosis with Abductees, and I think that the
market for that you'll probably be well into the tens and tens, so I
will self publish that book and tense big seller. That's what you're thinking,
right, Well, you never know, because you know, you hear these
numbers of people that think they've been abducted, and what is your thought on
that? I mean some people are saying millions of people. Oh yeah,
millions of people. Is this is a global phenomenon. This is not an
American phenomenon. We're not special. So aliens have come here because we are
Americans. That but and I have have worked with people from around the world
and uh uh oh caller, Hello, yeah, sorry, sorry, I
meant to add you to the call I'm going to have to hang up.
I'm sorry, right, I think I'm bad, Yeah, sorry about that.
It was I totally pressed the wrong button when the caller called all right.
I want to apologize to the listener out there listening live. I just
tried to take a call and I clicked the wrong button and everything went to
heck, So call or please try to call back. I will add you
to the call this time, instead of taking your call exclusively, which is
the mistake I made. So David, I'm sorry to have interrupt you and
how you go to dead air. And I can't remember exactly what you were
talking about, but there's certainly some questions up on the message board. It
happened much too much in the past for me to even possibly remember, okay,
and I can't scroll up to any of the questions. So one of
the things you mentioned that it happens generational. It happens when someone is a
young infant, and it goes on to their family and on and on.
So I believe that we were talking about how many people, how many numbers
right right? Well, And the point here is that this is not an
American phenomenon. It is it is, and there's nothing special about us.
It goes into it's in Latin America, it's in Europe, it's in Asia,
it's in the Far East, it's in the Near East, it's in
the Mid East, it's everywhere. This is a global program, a global
phenomenon, just like you know, it is the UFO phenomenon as far as
I'm concerned. And so, there was a poll taken in the nineteen ninety
one, and there been other polls to our polls showed that about two percent
of the American public were abductees, which is about six six million people.
That was extremely conservative. It's probably closer to maybe five percent, maybe more,
but it is In spite of all those polls, both Bud Hopkins and
I received thousands and thousands of letters from abductees around the country, around the
world, and they still keep coming now in the form of email. Of
course, it's it's a global phenomenon. You have to remember three things about
this that that are that are salients to to its existence. It is global,
it's intergenerational, and it's clandestine. It's secret. And the reason it's
secret is because they don't want us to know what they're doing. Obviously,
if they did it wouldn't be secret. So but it is not something that
that I look upon with joy. I must say, uh, this is
and this is not only that, but this is They're not testing us,
they're not examining us. They're not trying to find out what makes us tick.
This is a program with a beginning and middle and an end, and
it's goal directed. They are here for a reason. They are doing things
for a reason. You're seeing change over time and that and and the reason
is coming, I think, which I can talk about a little bit later
if you wish. Yeah, we can talk about that in the second Hour're
just about ready to take a break up. I'm going to try to take
this call. Okay, hang in there, everyone, Hopefully this will work.
Caller. Are you there there there, Martin, It's Justin from Canada.
Hey, Justin, how are you? How are you are? We
live right now? We are, And go ahead and pose your question to
doctor jas Thank you, hi, doctor Jacobs, Thanks for listening. How
are you? My question goes in some territory that I think that should be
addressed. First of all, I'd like to say that I, like Martin
said, and the sentiment is in the chatter and to you that we're very
sorry with the passing of your wife. It's a terrible loss. Secondly,
i'd like to say that I have read the threat. I think you're your
insight is interesting, and I think it's a question that should be asked in
a situation where we don't exactly know what the nature of these quote unquote beings
are, if that's you know, really what they are. So I want
to thank you for all your work, but the question I have is basically
the elephant in the room, and I think that publicly it needs to be
addressed, you know, to a wider audience, especially at this show,
because this is a really great show with a lot of great integrity, and
that's the story sort of of Emma Woods and her accusations with you, And
I think there's a lot of people that sort of would like you to kind
of clear the air and give us your perspective, you know, especially those
who have been with you since the beginning publications and who would like to possibly
invest in the future publications. Yeah. I don't usually like talking about her
in my stomach churns too much. I must say she is a woman who
I worked with for several years, a couple of years, who lives in
another country, and who over the course of time basically decompensated and I uh
uh we uh sort of stopped working together, not on the best of terms.
And as soon as that happened, as she began an all out assault
on me, saying things that such as I was a sexual pervert because I'd
asked for her unwashed underpants, uh which and uh and I never really answered
her. It's been eight years she's been stocked cyberstalking me, including just a
couple of days ago. And and I'm building a website now to answer every
single uh uh sort of a charge that she has leveled against me. Uh.
She's complained to Temple University, she complained to the Department of Health and
Human Services in Washington d c uh and I have become her life's work and
this is all she does from what I can tell. UH. The underpants
thing actually was, it was something that was interesting. We're looking for d
excuse me for DNA. And she wrote me a letter once saying that she
thought she might have had sexual contact with a hybrid in her house. There's
a lead up to this, and she had a Q tip and she was
going to send it to me, and I said, great, fine,
you know we need DNA and that would be wonderful. And then she she
wrote me another email later saying that she lost it or something like that.
Now I'm not getting this exactly one hundred correct here. And then another month
later she wrote me another email saying that it happened again. She's got a
Q tip, she's going to send it to me, and then she threw
it away or something. And then then a couple of months later she writes
to me and she said that there was a discharge in her underwear and uh
and and she said, and I said, well, you know, well
this is important and all the rest of that stuff because DNA and she said,
well she she washed them. I said, even though it happened yesterday
and she said yes. I said, okay. So another month goes by
and then she rarely writes me again. She says, uh, that it
happened again, and she said, I got this discharge under pasts and basically
I said, listen, uh am I just sticking in an envelope and don't
even think about it and just sent it to me. I am a sexual
prefert. She has claimed, uh, and this is this is so insane.
If you, if you knew me, it was so crazy, so
nutty that but I never ever answered. This is the first time I've ever
talked about that, that particular incident. She's got a whole bunch of other
things. The level of charges leveled against me. Now, I never met
her. She is a person who I dealt with on the phone. This
was before Skype, actually and not really before Skype, but but Skype is
not is not known yet and she also did not have a camera for her
desktop. But so so I've never met her face to face. And a
lot of psychiatrists have said, well, but you should have met her face
to face and you might have learned something then. And the answer is,
I don't know. I don't know whether that would have been true or not.
But she has been my nemesis, and she, as I said,
it's been eight years, and she's she this is all she lives for these
days. She could have stopped and anytime she wanted to, if she thought
that there was something wrong with me or whatever. And the problem is is
that she has all these charges against me, but they're all like as I
just explained, way out of context, so that it does sound like I'm
some sort of lunatic who's praying on young women or something like that. And
let me say that that is not the case. So I'm not going to
talk about her anymore. You can, Emma. What's the real story is
the name of the website. It's in the process of being built, even
though it's live now, but it will change drastically. I'm redoing the front
and and a person helping me do this because I'm not all that tech savvy.
And uh, there's a beginning which will be changed. Uh, I
hope by tomorrow. Uh and uh, and I'll go into every every charge
that she's leveled against me and show her exactly and show people exactly what happened.
And you will, when people really have to say, they will understand.
I hope. Okay, yeah, I actually have been. I've seen
firsthand. Uh, you know, the effects of cyber tax, especially in
the d and age. So I really appreciate you actually, you know,
taking me time to talk about that to the audience, because I don't think
most people understand how hard that can be, especially for you, who is
a public figure. And I think it's important for people to know that there
is a maybe that they can see and read the backstory on. So thanks
for maybe clearing the air on a little bit. Thank you. Well.
I've talked with about a dozen psychiatrists, psychologists, and therapists about the situation,
and they all have one answer. Don't ever ever ever respond to her,
ever, ever, ever, ever, because she eventually shall just lose
interest and go on and go on to somebody else. But and that was
very good advice pre internet, and now it's a whole different story. I
stuck with that until now. And I've been a punching bag for her for
so long. As I said, eight years is a long time, and
I'm seventy three now, so I've got to I just absolutely have to answer,
even though they're still telling me not to do it. But I'm doing
it anyway. And people can make up their own minds then yeah, okay,
justin thanks very much for the call. Hey, thanks guys, good
night, good night. All right, So David, hang in there,
Hang in there, live listeners, We're going to be right back right after
this quick music break. All right, We're back live with David Jacobs,
and I do appreciate the calls. A lot of people have been trying to
call, and all I can tell you is keep trying and if I can
answer the phone and bring you on, all you have to do is introduce
yourself with your first name and we're good to go. So the number for
anyone that does want to call is six oh three nine sixty seven four oh
three to zero. Okay. So that was that was interesting. And I
understand when something's on the internet, it stays around to you know, whatever
information it is. You know, I've had experience with that, like a
house that I bought one time, real inexpensive. I didn't want everybody to
know, but you still can see what I paid for it. You know,
things just don't go away. Yeah, exactly right. And and so
uh if she's going to keep doing this, and and I just I just
I just have to respond. I'm sick and tired of it. I mean,
eight years is of cyber cyber stalking is really a lot to me.
A question up on the message board, and it's it's come up a lot
in abductees and also Nick Redfurn spoke about it and comparing your interviews with the
abductees, have you noticed any commonalities between various abductees I e r a negative
blood. I asked ten abductees if they had our age negative blood. None
of them did. Now here's the problem with our age negative blood. People
don't get married to other people because of their blood type. And therefore,
if this is a phenomenon that it's intergenerational, you get married to somebody who
you love, period, and you might find out their blood type later on,
you might not who knows. And so if in fact our age negative
was a significant aspect of the abduction phenomenon, what we would see would be
a rise in the number of people with our age negative blood because they would
be the ones chosen to be abductees. And since it's intergenerational, they would
have to do they'd have to do some sort of messing around. I'm not
sure, but to get that. But we don't see anything like that as
far as I know. And like I said, it's I think this is
it sounds interesting, but it actually isn't. This is a global phenomenon with
millions of people. Our age negative is not all that common, you know,
it's it's unusual. So so I don't place any stock in it at
all. I had I had class fun of Sweden. He used to be
the director of the UFO Association over there. They take this very seriously over
there, and there's not any ridicule to speak of or anything interesting. Guy
and I always ask when I talk to people in different countries about the you
know, abduction incidents in their country, and he said that he only hears
about one a year there. Do you think that it's going back to what
you said earlier, that people are having the experience but not sure what it
is. Yeah, I think that's what it is, and that I've got
a bunch of people from Scandinavia who've written me, filled out my question or
on my website and all the rest of that stuff. And oh, incidentally,
well, remind me to tell you something about a discovery that I made
this very day. We have people, we have probably a greater background in
UFOs and abductions in any other country, because we had national studies of the
phenomenon of UFOs through the Air Force and through other organizations, and we still
have national organizations and all the rest of that. And we also were sort
of first to uncover the abduction phenomenon, even though the very first case we
ever learned about it took place in Brazil, the Antonio vis Bos case in
nineteen fifty seven in Brazil. But but but we kept at it, and
uh so the Americans. So people know about the abduction phenomenon here. It's
all over television at least there was for a while. And uh and I
don't know whether that is the case in Sweden or Norway or whatever. However,
back to the pop culture question you ask, right, you know,
well, it's yeah, it's it's it becomes part of popular culture and people,
you know, watch it on television they think that, oh my god,
I've watched this. Now I'm polluted. And if I come to to
do research and I'm just going to say what I saw on television, people
are you know, are aware of that when when when they go to when
it come to me anyway, But my guess is is that Sweden is loaded
with that ductees, just like every other country. You know, Sweden made
its mark with the ghost rockets in nineteen forty six. For probably UFOs,
this is a the abduction phenomenon. Is the UFO phenomenon in France? They
say, oh, there's hardly any abductees in France, but there's very little
places for people to understand how what the symptoms of being abducted are. And
there's very little places to go to to investigate it in France. Therefore,
there's nobody in being abducted in France. But I've got I don't have that
many, but I have about twenty five or twenty seven emails from people who
live in France who are abductees, obviously, and so you you know,
it's it's everywhere. And the reverse of that is, no matter where I
go. Oh this includes Brazil and Argentina and places in Europe and everywhere through
the United States. No matter where I go, people rush up to me.
They grab me by the lapels, they put their nose in my face,
and they say, you know, I come from a little village in
Oklahoma, and it's a hotbed of UFO activity, a hotbed of UFO activity.
Everybody says that to me, no matter where they're from around the world.
And you know that that hotbed of UFO activity is because there's a lot
of abductees there. And what happens is, I got to excuse me,
how to remove a cat again who wants to me on my lap But it's
not good right now, Carrie, Thank you. So it's what happens in
small towns or small villages is that a person a family might be an abductees,
or might be several families are abductees, you know, like fifty years
ago or eighty years ago or whatever, and they marry people in the town,
and then they all have kids and they marry people in the town,
and so what you get is is a higher concentration of abductees in small towns
than you do in big cities oftentimes, because there's just that's what you know.
They meet people and then they grow up with and then they get married
and all that, and all their kids are abductees, and therefore it becomes
a hotbed of UFO activity. You know, I want to ask you the
blanket question, and that is why. But before I do that, before
you answer that, I should say one of the theories or you heard someone
people talk about what's back in the forties there was some type of deal made
with the government that trade tech for abducting for information or whatever. And I
just wanted to hear what your thoughts were on that that would be well within
the non truthful range. Let's just say, yeah, I figured so,
but I wanted to hear what you had to say. They don't need no
stinking contract. They can do whatever they please. They can do whatever they
want. The difference between aliens and us, and this is aliens of all
kinds, including hybrids, including what I call hubrids, who are the ones
who are walking among us and living here. The difference is that they can
control us neurologically and from a distance, and we cannot control them. That
is not just a difference, it's a crushing difference. It makes us into
a second class species. It makes us expendable, It makes us into like,
you know, like people have unbelievably intelligent dogs or something like that.
Not quite like that, but we are at a lesser We have a lesser
ability to use our own brains than they do, and so I just don't
like that. And therefore they don't need a contract. They do whatever they
want to do. This is an extremely evolved technological society. Any technology that
you're going to find that is from outer space automatically and absolutely has to be
extremely advanced, extremely advanced, not just a little advanced, but really advanced.
And the reason is because our technology, which is how we measure things,
is brand new. It's only a couple one hundred years, And if
you really want to stretch matters, you could say it's ten thousand years old.
Our technology. Why, ten thousand years ago somebody rolled a flat stone
and called it a wheel, so that would be technology of some sort.
Ten thousand years is not even the quarter of a nanosecond of a blink of
an eye in geologic or cosmic time. So if somebody has any kind of
technology at all out there, it's going to be extremely advanced compared to ours,
because ours is brand new. Now there's a flaw in this argument.
The flaw is there might be so many civilizations with technology out there that,
by the law of averages, a few of them might be right where we
are just beginning. That's the flaw in the argument. But generally speaking,
it's going to be very, very advanced. So what you see here is
the concept of invisibility, the concept of taking people right out of windows,
closed windows, right out of walls, up through the ceiling and into somebody
else's apartment and up through the ceiling and then into the air without being seen
and passing through matter. You see stuff like that, and it's just you
have to think about it as this is future technology. This is what technology
will look like sometime in the future. David, just a few minutes ago,
you said that you had a discovery today. Do you want to talk
about that. Yes, if anybody buys my book. But the website that
they put down that is my website, is not the website that I have
at the vague in the my little biography at the back of the book.
It's the wrong website. Does it go to Emma Woods, No, thank
god, it's it's they put down UFO Abductions with an s dot com instead
of ufo abduction dot com. And Joe Montaldo used on ufo abductions dot com.
And I think that he's abandoned or reselling it or something like that,
because I looked at it after I saw this error, and and it's for
sale. Oh, you can do a readirect either that or every book signing
you can change in the back of the book. That's what I'm going to
have to do. But I've been told that they're they're running out of books
at the warehouse and the next printing they'll they'll print the correct website. But
so anyway, so much for editing all your copy and then you get there
and do that. Wow, right, exactly. Well, these are typos.
You can't get rid of typos, and they are in all the books
that I've written, and and they just you just no matter how many eyes
are are on it, you're going to get typos. I've just heard Kerrie
try to get up in your lap again, I think now on the message
board, someone wants to know if all the abductions are physical or some of
them just psychological or psychic, or in other words, like mind abductions.
Yeah, there is no such thing as mind abductions. These all happen in
real time, in real place. They're really physical. People come back from
them with marks and bumps and bruises on their body. They come back with
them sometimes with fully formed scars on their body that they didn't have before,
which I have seen. I just said something that is biologically impossible, fully
formed scar tissue, a scar an inch long that was not on a person's
hands who I had seen the day before. I looked at something, and
my jaw hit the floor when I saw that. Even I was astounded to
be I was looking at something I was about, Well, that's not impossible
if you're an abductee. And sometimes he come back with their clothes on inside
out, or some clothes on backwards. Sometimes they come back wearing somebody else's
clothes. This is right. I've never heard that part. Oh yeah,
yeah, this is real time physicality. This is nothing. One time I
had a guy say that he went to sleep on his couch and and he
went to venus or something I thought while he was on his couch, and
he came back and everything was wonderful. And no, no, no,
and only only five minutes had passed and no, no, no, no.
Okay, You're welcome to call in out there. I'm sorry. I
have missed a number of calls this evening, that number of six three nine
sixty seven four three to Oh. So, David, in your opinion,
what the heck is going on? Why is this happening? This is your
opinion, but I'd like to hear it. Okay, Well, there's a
lead up to this opinion. And first of all, in the threat I
talked about, uh uh, these beings were saying that to abductees, Well,
they would bring an abductee into a room and they'd show the abductee and
image on a screen and they would be list. Uh. Here's two of
them that I usually talk about. One is people lined up on steps like
a class photograph, you know, and looking at the camera, smiling whatever.
And the person looks at this and and and they're they're puzzled as to
why they're looking at these people standing on these steps. But then they hear
telepathically. They hear, can you tell the difference between you and us?
And the person the abductee looks at it and hardly understands the question. They
say, what do you mean difference? Everybody looks as saying, there's no
difference, what are you talking about? And they say, see, isn't
that wonderful? Soon we will all be together. Soon, there's going to
be a change. Everybody's going to be happy, everybody's going to know his
place. Soon. This is going to happen. The change is coming.
And then other people would tell me the same kind of story about a change
coming and soon, and more people would tell me that, and then I
then would ask them, well, what do you know what they might mean
by the change? Nobody knew? I said, well, do you know
what they might mean by soon? Because soon it's a relative term term.
It could be a nanosecond now at a billion of a second or a billion
years from now, for all we know, And nobody knew that either.
So in two thousand and three I started to hear these stories that indicated that
something was happening, that people who you could not tell the difference between human
and hybrid were beginning to appear in this society. And the first time I
heard that, I just cast it aside, because when you hear something for
the first time, it's not evidence. You have to have other people verify
that. And then another person said the same thing, then another one,
then another one, then another one, then another one, then another one,
And then I thought to myself, well, this might be the change.
This might be the change they were talking about. But it might not
be the change. It might be a prequel so to speak to the change.
It might be a harbinger of the change that is coming later. I
do not know, because I don't know what the change is. However,
what people began to say was that they were not only helping hybrids learn about
what life is like on Earth from the time they were children until the time
that they're teenagers and even older on board a UFO, but in fact they
were doing it here in normal society, and these beings were living in normal
society also, and I had never heard that before. And then I started
to hear a lot of it, and people were not aware of the other
one's testimony obviously, And so the question then is why, Well, we
don't know the answer to that either. And then but when we look at
the big picture, and you can't look at the small picture here, this
has to be the big picture. It's global, it's intergenerational, it's secret,
and they can control us neurologically. So my sense of this is is
I'm calling this global acquisition. I think that they are that their plan ultimately
is to take over the Earth in some way, or at least civilization on
the earth. In other words, I don't know what's happening in every country.
I don't know what's happening in North Korea, for example, but we
do think, I mean, it does appear to be global, and there's
really strong evidence for that. It appears to have been going on for a
long time, as early as the last quarter of the nineteenth century. And
if you erase that and you just go with sort of evidence, then the
nineteen teens and then the nineteen twenties, more evidence in the nineteen thirties,
more evidence in the nineteen forties. That's no problem. Lots and lots and
lots of lots of cases when people were young in the nineteen forties, so
we know it's been going on for a long time, which means that there's
been a lot of time and energy and thought put into this program of planetary
acquisition. And I've learned that it's it's a complicated business, but it's it's
it's simple. Also, it's it's sort of beautiful in its construct, as
scientists might say. It's it's it's it's acquisition through hybridization, and it's just
a slow but now constant stream of people who look like normal, average everyday
individuals, just moving into apartments, having abductees help them, having abductees teach
them about the ten billion things they don't know about on Earth, even though
all their lives have been taught what it's like to be on Earth. And
but once they get here, they need somebody to hold their hands up for
a lot of things, and that's what abductees do. And then they learn
enough and they go on to somewhere else and they addicty gets another hybrid who's
moving in or hubrid as I would call them a combination of human and hybrid.
That I just put the two words together and to differentiate the ones who
are actually living here as opposed to all the rest of the hybrids who are
part of the workforce and on our onboard new UFO. But we don't know
why. Planetary acquisition seems to be the goal. Now that's interesting that we
don't know why. It's just like in the threat, nobody knew what soon
meant, and nobody knew what the change meant. This is this phenomenon,
as I said before, that's psychological or it's happening. If this were psychological,
people would simply tell you why they were doing it. Because they're making
everything else up. Why wouldn't they make that up. We'd hear it from
here from there, maybe not from everybody, but from most people. I
just like to change and soon we'd know. But in fact it's no.
The ones who are doing this don't say why. Therefore the abductees don't know
why. Therefore I don't know why. Therefore nobody knows why. So there's
no What do you think you said that earlier. You just said a minute
ago that we're going to know at some point soon or something. But soon,
what is soon? Right? Well, this is when I asked abductees,
what did the aliens mean when they said soon? Nobody knew. But
when they said soon in nineteen ninety seven, In nineteen ninety six, when
I was doing the research for the threat, everything was the same and stayed
the same for years afterwards, until I began to hear stories that I never
heard before. And then I realized that this might have been what they meant
by soon, and this might have been what they meant by the change,
although I can't be sure of that, but it was different than anything I'd
ever heard. And you have to understand that the abduction phenomenon is when you
listen to abduct these talk about their experiences. For them, it's the most
astounding thing that has ever happened in the history of humankind, and it is
I can understand that. For me, it's I'm going to use the words
so hoorific, it's I've heard these stories so many times over and over and
over and over and over again that I have to fight to keep myself awake
during sessions that is unfortunately literally true. And I learned the hard way,
having fallen asleep, because I'm just hearing the same thing over and over and
over and over and over and over. I'm asleep now. And consequently that
extremely important because it's all verification. They're all saying the same thing, and
they don't know anything about the subject. And then most of what I'm saying,
and most of what's been on television has not been fully involved with the
I mean, you're you're here, You're you're only seeing bits and parts of
the abduction phenomenon on television. Most of what people are saying they have not
picked up in personal in popular culture. These are personal experiences that happen to
them. But I know that it happens to everybody. And can you tell
us an example, well, you know, taking an egg? There are
I used to think in secret life, I wrote that they were extremely interested
in human sexual response because they would look into the eyes of people and they
would put these people, male or female, on top of one another and
have them go through the business of intercourse, and then and they would stare
in their eyes. Ah, And I thought, well, they must they
keep doing this. They must be interested in human sexual response in some way.
That's all I could think of. But what I but what it turned
out to be was that they don't They're not interested in human sexual response at
all, not even a little bit. They're not interested in. What they're
interested in is at the peak moment of this event, they take the man
away from the woman, who then basically ejaculates into a receptacle. It's a
sperm taking technique. Why they use that, and there's other techniques that they
have too, so well, if they can control the mind, they could
obviously do that instantly, You're right. And when they do do that,
and they do that with the woman by controlling the mind. And the first
time I heard this, here's the story about the first time I heard I
had discovered this business about staring at people from a distance of touching foreheads or
maybe an inch or two and steering, and I would ask them, can
you avert your eyes? You know, left, turn and left or right?
And they say no. I say, well, can you close your
eyelids? You know? No, they can't do that either. And I
couldn't figure out what it was. And I finally realized that they were using
the optic nerve, which can be seen from the outside at the back of
the eye as a conduit to stimulate any particular nerve neurons they wanted to in
the brain and do different things in the brain and neurologically. One of the
things that they can do is they can stimulate sexual response. And when that
comes for a woman, they immediately at that point they go down and they
take an egg now or two eggs, or whatever egg is coming out of
the ovary. How that happens, I do not know, because that does
not happen in normal human life. That's not when women are That's not what
happens in some way that facilitates their taking of the eggs. I've had people
tell me that hundreds of times. That is not an exaggeration. And one
time, this is star. I was going to tell you that before I
knew this, this guy, this tall gray alien, was staring into this
sixteen year old girl's eyes. Now this she was older when I was working
with her. Because I don't work with people who are I like to work
with older people. I wanted to have a life first before they started working
with me. So I don't work with anybody on the age of twenty one
and I'm gonna and I don't even like to do that. I'd rather work
with people who are who are fifty or forty or whatever. We already have
a life and kids and a wife and my husband and all that. So,
so she's sixteen, she's remembering back to when she was sixteen years old,
and I asked her, this is brand this is a brand new stuff.
I said, what's going on in your minds while he's staring at you?
And she said to him, to me, she said, you know,
I really like him. I really really like him. No, he's
really a good person. I hope he likes me, she says to me,
the sixteen year old talking to me, you know. And I think
to myself, here's a bug eyed monster who's staring at her eyes and she's
falling in love with him. What could that? How could that be possible?
And I didn't know anything about the sexual response thing yet, but that
was sort of the beginning of it. It went back a little bit more
when I first discovered it with another woman. But like the Stockholm syndrome,
no it's not the Stockholm said. They're just creating sexual response so that they
can take an egg. That's all I care about wow, And so you
know, there's a bunch of comments that came up. Let me just pull
one question for you, because I keep missing all these questions, how many
commonalities does or do you have on abductees? That I have to read this
differently because it's written like he's asking me to ask you that you have written
about that uses that you use as you're checking your checking your abductee in hand.
I guess there the person who's asking how many commonalities are there? Oh,
if there weren't commonalities, if it didn't have that soporific aspect of everybody
saying the same thing all the time, we wouldn't be talking now because it
would be idiosyncratic. It would be every person would have a story based on
their own life in some way or another, especially based on their own country.
And but this is a phenomenon that cuts across everything. It cuts across
us all religions, all racial aspects, all geographic boundaries, it cuts across
educational levels. I have people who are psychiatrists and psychologists and therapists who come
to me to find out what has been happening with them, even though that
they're taking the risk because I'm just some amateur guy. I'm just a guy
off the street. They're taking a risk to come to me and knowing that
I will not be you know, say who their actual name is or where
they teach or anything like that, because they are driven to wanting to find
out what's going on with them. And when they tell me what's happening to
them, it's pretty much the same in all the different aspects of which there
are thousands of aspects that twitter. You know, you can you can dissect
it into little tiny pieces, and so it's all pretty much the same.
Now, it can be very very different, extremely difference if you don't know
what you're doing when you do hypnosis and you ask the wrong questions in the
wrong way, and you call for wrong answers, and you understand you don't
understand the role of confabulation. People will confabulate. They'll say things that they
will swear to as being true and it turns out not to be true.
Do they believe it's true though? Oh absolutely. And the most confabulation takes
place and consciously recalled memories. Now, obviously ninety five percent of adductees don't
remember anything. It's not Those aren't the ones we work with. We work
with the ones who do know something is going on, who do have a
memory of something happening, or a bizarre dream of aliens in their bedroom or
something like that, and other things too, which then drive them to me.
I take people who basically are it's interfering with their life. If it's
not interfering with their life, if everything is okay, they're married, the
happy area, that everything is fine, I'm not about to open this up
for them and destroy their lives in some way or another. I don't want
to do that. I want to work with people who where this is getting
in the way of their normal life. They deserve to have a normal life,
and that's what I'm looking for. So basically, the commonalities are are
critical, and it's extremely important that that they say the same things. If,
however, I take four for truth what they first tell me. For
example, I will tell you a risky story. That's when I was twelve
years old. This is conscious memory. She sat in the backyard playing.
She got the urge to go to the bathroom, but it was too far.
With an urgent urge, there was too far to go back to our
house. She was in a wooded area, nobody was around. So she,
as we like to say in the halls of the team, took a
dump near a tree. So when she looked at it, she was astounded
to see a tapeworm in it, and that was that really was sort of
amazing. And but that does happen, and so I think, so we
did a session on that because it was sort of fascinating. So he's out
playing in the back of the woods and the woods and then then there's this
UFO there, and then she goes into the into the UFO and these aliens
and this happens, and that happens, and this happens, and that happens,
and this happens, and that happens, and then she comes out and
then she runs home. I said, wait a second, what about how
you had to go to the bathroom by the tree and all that? She
said, no, no, I don't think that happened. I said,
what about that tape room that stuck in your mind for all these years?
Said, now, I don't think that happened either. She had that in
her mind for years and years and years, and when it became time for
her to just describe it to me, was I was ready to listen to
it. It wasn't there. That's confabulation. I can tell you story after
story after story after story, but this is how you can how you handle
it. Here's another story. This is how you handle it. Woman wakes
up in the middle of the night. There's Abraham Lincoln standing at the foot
of her bed. He's tall, he's got a stove by a pad on
it says beard. He's standing there with somebody else or something like that.
They take her out of the bed, they take her up into the ufo
etteta, and I'm not saying a word about Abraham Lincoln. And finally I
say, well, now you know, they tear clothes off. She's in
a room. They pick her up. Day. She's walking down the hallway.
I say, well, where is Abraham Lincoln. Oh, he's in
front of me, walking down this hallway. I said, okay, Well,
I said, can you see a stove pipe? Pat? She said
no, no, no. I said, well, can you see his
hair then? If he's not wearing his hat, can you see his hair
in the back of his head if he's in front of you, No,
I can't see that. I said, well, when you're looking at him,
are you looking up at him. Are you looking straight across at him?
Are you looking down at him? So well, I'm sort of looking
straight across at him. And then she said, you know, I don't
think this is Lincoln. That's how you do it. It's just simple chronological
and logical questioning, that's all. And after the first session has most confabulation,
and it comes the first in the two major areas of confabulation are what
I just describe, which is describing aliens. And believe me, you get
people who tell me that there's two hundred and forty eight different kinds of aliens
who are visiting here. You know, I'm abducting people, and people who
tell me there are twenty different kinds of it. And this is all confabulation
from what I can tell. And so if you work with them, uh,
doing chronological and logical questioning based on what they're saying, then not on
based on what I think they should be saying, they learn very quickly that
memory is slippery and they had remembered things that didn't happen or weren't true,
and what they're remembering is actually a stranger than what they thought they were remembering,
you know. Sometimes and then they become sort of scientist observers. They
understand the enormity of this, They understand the incredible aspect of this phenomenon for
everybody, and they want to be accurate. Then they don't want confabulation that
they want to be accurate about about what's happening to them. And I have
a style of questioning which causes that accuracy, which allows for it. Well,
I got a question along those lines, if that's all right, is
have you seen as time has gone by like an overall change? You say
that there's you know, the story sounds the same, sounds the same,
But is it your questions also the same? Or do you change your questions?
No, my questions are pretty much the same. I only ask what
they see, what they talk about. Now, Sometimes there's there's there's depends.
I will ask them sometimes if they've gone for four hours and they tell
me about fifteen minutes worth of material, I know they skipped a lot of
stuff. So I'll tell them, well, you know, let's just see
if anything else happened. Then I'll count from threader one or something like that
and tell them, you know, when I get there one, you'll you'll
you'll remember something else. Happening. If it did, and it might have
nothing else happened, that's fine too. And then they remember, oh,
they took me into a different room, they did this, and they did
that, and then they took me into another room and they did Disney.
You know, but they will that's only in the first several sessions. Usually
after a while they get used to it and they understand that when they go
out of the room, they know that I'm going to ask them, well,
if you're going out of the room, they've already described the room to
me because they because they said they were going into the room, So I
get to talk about the room. Then then when they go out of the
room, I ask them do they go straight? Do they straight out of
the room? Do they go left? Or do they turn right or something
like that. Now, there's only so many ways you can go, you
know, So they say, well, so they know right away. They
say, well, I'm turning right into a hallway now, And they've learned
to be accurate because I'm sort of asking for it. I'm asking for accuracy,
and when that happens, nothing bubbles up. That is bizarre. There's
nothing to do with religion in there. There's nothing to do with being transcendent
beings helping to heal the world or heal us or whatever people say. I
just don't ever hear that. As long as I'm asking questions the correct way
and they're leading me on what questions I can ask, I can't just tell
them ask them a question out of the blue. I'm going on this journey
physically with them and they're doing things. I can ask them questions about what's
going on. You know, have you ever heard like I know you said,
what was it? Spot for? Whatever that word is that I'll have
to look up they put you to sleep? Have you had soporific? Okay?
Have you had say, spoken to someone in multiple times? Her story
is similar. You're falling asleep and all of a sudden there's something new or
something bizarre that that you actually believe as part of the story. Yeah,
that does happen, and it may not be necessarily validated by others. It
only happens when I've worked with the person for a number of years and I
know and I trust that person, And usually the person will say to me,
now, I don't know whether this is true, whether this is happening
or not, but I'll tell you to you anyway, and then they'll say
something that makes perfect logical sense in some way, and I'll latch onto that
because I know this person. I've known this person well, and I've had
ten, fifteen, twenty or thirty sessions with the hamm or her, and
I know that they are extremely careful in how they're describing things, and they've
learned how to do it, and they've learned how to warn me and all
the rest of that stuff. Even then, and it's usually a minor thing,
but even then, I prefer to wait for somebody else to say the
same thing. And the phenomenon is so rutinized that invariably somebody else will.
You know it's but it's all a matter of questioning, and it's a matter
of trust, and it's a yeah. There are some people who who will
ask a person a question. They're they're remembering something that happened ten years ago,
and in the middle of this discussion, the hypnotist will say, I
want you to ask the alien a question. I want you to ask them
what planet do they come from? Or something like that. You know,
Hang on a second, here, we have a caller. Can you say
your first name? And question please, Bobby, Hey, Bobby, who
are you, good man? The question is, actually you kind of got
it wrong. Is what checks does he still have where ductees that he believes
are real have told him that he keeps himself and doesn't share in his books.
How many of those does he have that he still uses to see that
are commonalities? Okay, just to let you know, we have a couple
of two minutes left. Thank you, Bobby. You're welcome to In the
first couple of sessions, I asked deliberately misleading questions. I'm not going to
say what they are, but they asked and I know them. Bud used
to ask people, you know that most abductees see that there's a yellow colored
a yellow sort of bright yellow alien who stands off to the side and watches
things as they go on and doesn't do anything. You can see him,
can't you. Of course, that's never been said by anybody ever, at
any time. And so, and there's another researcher, John Carpenter, who
had a whole list of these types of questions to ask. And I'll ask
those questions. I can tell fairly quickly how responsor the person is, and
they're usually wary of asking questions that aren't going to apply to them in some
way. But I do do that absolutely, and I try to do that
with everybody, and for the first several sessions until I'm pretty much satisfied that
they're going to be. They're trying to be as accurate as possible. Nobody
wants to say anything that's wrong or false. They don't know. Nobody wants
that, at least of all me. Right, So, David, what's
your website? And one more time, the name of your book? Then
it's on your website. Right. The website is is a UFO Abduction,
no s dot com, just singular Abduction dot com. The book is called
Walking among Us, How the Aliens Plan to Control Humanity. The Walking among
Us was something that came up with on the spur of the moments. The
other part was their subtitle. They had a different title, which I will
not tell you, okay, because it was straight out of the pages of
the National Inquirer. So I figured, no, no, no, no
no, that's not going to work. Well, thanks so much. It's
been a real pleasure. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Yeah, all right, So that's it for the show. Tonight, and
I want to thank everyone for helping out, starting out with Keith Roland for
helping out with a with a live show. And we have Peggy Shunning who
helps us out with the Facebook page. Remember to like us on Facebook for
all the latest UFO news. Next week, we have Mark Diantonio coming up
and we're going to talk about astronomy and UFO research, UPHO tog as he
calls it, and a lot more. And so I want to thank everyone
for supporting the show. If you're listening this long, you are a supporter
or you're listening live, and I greatly appreciate it, and so thanks a
lot everyone. We'll be back next week right here on the Dark Matter Digital
Network at APM to ten pm Eastern Standard time. Hopefully you change your clock
for daylight savings. All right, we'll talk to you later, see you
next week, and keep your eyes to the sky.